Weekend Open Thread

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

The Outnet has a ton of jewel-toned garments on sale this weekend. I’m drooling over this Vanessa Bruno dress which, while it might work in an office would be lovely for evening outs as well. Love the pattern and asymmetric colla. It was $950, and is now marked to $285. Ikat-print silk-blend wrap dress

(L-2)

Comments

  1. Favorite long-sleeved t-shirts/casual shirts?

    • They’re spendy, but I really like Be Present’s long-sleeved tees. I have several, and they’ve held up amazingly well.

      • Ann Taylor perfect tees hold up wonderfully. For lighter weight, good for layering, I love the cotton modal ones from Lands End. Both Lands End and AT come in petites.

    • old navy has some… they’re easy to layer as well and pretty cheap

      (this coming from a non-lawyer and thus a non-lawyer’s budget)

      • a passion for fashion :

        I have a lawyers budget and i still prefer the old navy ones. am wearing one right now.

        • I like the ON v-necks too. They are cheap (less than $10 on sale) and come in a bunch of different colors – I usually pick up a new one every month or so just to have a different color to work into the rotation.

      • I also like the Old Navy ones for layering, but do prefer the quality of Three Dots and LnA – nicer weight and drape.

      • I have a bunch of the old navy ones too. But I find they get stretched out and shapeless after awhile. Maybe this is unavoidable – I haven’t tried the more spendy options much.

        • This. I have a bunch and just don’t think the quality is so great. It’s worth it to me to splurge on a T-shirt (I like Three Dots myself) because it never goes out of style and I *will* wear it forever.

    • Land’s End canvas has comfortable, cheap, and cute ones for lazy weekends, errands, chores, etc.

    • Research, Not Law :

      I’ve been doing well with the Caslon brand ones at Nordstrom. It’s become my go-to for basics. Comfortable, durable, well-cut, and well-priced.

      I’ve been thinking about trying Lands End or LL Bean this fall. I’ve liked the random (not t-shirt) items I’ve tried so far.

    • Loft. I love how soft they are.

    • On a similar note, any great scoop neck (but not too low) plain, simple t-shirts? I feel in love with the ones from Loft, but now they are sold out.

      • Boden’s Perfect Tees have the perfect scoop neck. The only problem is that the style is too casual for work (the edge of the neckline is unfinished). Love them on the weekends, though. And the white tees are completely opaque, hallelujah.

        • H & M’s scoop necks! They are heavy enough weight to wear under a suit jacket and a not too low cut. I love them!

    • Elizabeth :

      It’s an odd brand, but Daisy Fuentes’ line at Kohl’s is just right. A nice substantial weight, and long enough for my 5’7″, long-waisted self.

    • Petit Bateau is my go-to. Their sizing is kind of weird. I’m 5’5″ and typically wear a size medium shirt, and I fit into their 18 ans (18 years – they do sizing by age for some reason! I WISH I had my 18yo body!). The material and stitching of their basic tees is very high quality. Nice thick fabric, and they last for years if you wash on delicate and air dry.

      • lostintranslation :

        Petit bataeu! Their tees are high-quality, hold their shape, and are nice and thick. As a bonus, a lot of their basic items are relatively short which is nice for the shortwaisted. Their only downside is the sizing. In most US stores, I wear an XS/S in tees, and at Petit Bateau feel most comfortable in 16a/18a (M/L).

  2. I know we have talked about Boden recently – not sure if anyone mentioned this dress? I have been eyeing it for a while. Any thoughts?

    http://www.bodenusa.com/en-US/Womens-Dresses/Above-Knee-Dresses/WH303-BLK/Womens-Black-Patchwork-Alice-Wrap-Dress.html?NavGroupID=4

    • I’ve been curious as well, but haven’t taken the plunge. The reviews make it sound like the fit is a bit off. If it goes on sale I might have to try it, the prints are really beautiful!

    • That dress makes the mannequin look chubby. The model looks like she’s wearing a sack. I’d pass.

    • spacegeek :

      I have quite a few Boden dresses. Love the quality, cuts and fabric. They can run a bit large FWIW.

  3. re-posting the call for a Corporette Tumblr party. I want to follow you!

    wailingbeansidhe [dot] tumblr [dot] com

  4. Always a NYer :

    So sad, I completely forgot it was Friday until I saw this. Fail, off to get more coffee…

  5. SF Bay Associate :

    This Vanessa Bruno dress reminds me of the Trina Turk dress discussed a while ago – both are lovely looking as lounging robes to wear at home.

    Happy weekend all!

  6. Looks like a bathrobe to me….

  7. gift ideas :

    What is a good baby gift from an associate to a junior partner that you’ve worked for fulltime for 1-2 yrs and who is a friend and mentor also. They are a dual income, high earning couple living in Atlanta and this is their second child, so there is no registry, they are all set on basics, and the kinds of things that you give to help people out (diapers; grocery store gift cards etc.) will just look odd given the income level. I’d rather not pick out clothes as I don’t know the parents’ tastes or what they already have (large extended fams live nearby, multiple baby showers etc.), nor do I live in the area so things like a restaurant or spa gift certificate for whenever she can leave the house would involve me just randomly picking something close to their home. I was thinking of a keepsake gift, but as I’m hearing that it’s been a few rough nights in the hospital and at home — does she really care about a silver something or other right now? If it’s a gift card – where and how much given that she earns a LOT more than me and would not be comfortable if the amount was huge (and I wouldn’t be comfortable giving something too small). Ideas?

    • What about something for the first child? Often the baby gets more than enough, but it might be nice to include a note that you wanted to honor the older child’s experience of becoming a big brother/sister and give an age-appropriate gift.

      Or something for the parents? Gift card to the movies or something with a note that you hope they’ll be able to use the card for a relaxing night out in the future or before the baby arrives.

      • Always a NYer :

        I second getting something for the older child in addition to getting something for the new baby. It will mean more to the older child as he/she has probably seen all the new gifts for the new baby and probably feels somewhat sad that he/she has been forgotten about. You boss will also be grateful that you remembered she has two children.

        • Yes, I always get a gift for the sibling(s) as well.

          How about something less common and more sentimental? Did you have a favorite childhood book? See if you can find an early edition (ebay) and write a note inside the front cover.

          • Anonymous :

            This. Favorite childhood books. Fairy tales. Nursery Rhymes. Can be something to enjoy now, or maybe when baby is a little older. Plus it won’t add to the endlessly multiplying mountain of stuffed animals/baby blankets, etc.

      • You could do a few baby board books and then a book or two geared towards the older child’s age group.

      • I think it is so nice thinking of the older child.

    • Most people really like flowers. I can’t convince myself against flowers using any of your caveats above, so it just might work. Wait a few days and send a big pink or blue arrangement with a note of congratulations. If the flowers aren’t to her taste they will be dead in a week anyway, so it won’t matter.

      • a passion for fashion :

        This. I loved getting flowers both times. And it is especially nice to wait a few days/weeks so that they dont have a house full of flowers all at once, but rather a lovely bunch for a long time.

        And if you feel like you should send something else (I think some of the floral sending cos will do this) get a baby blanket or stuffed animal with the baby’s name/date of birth and a book or something for the older child.

    • Can you send food? Perhaps a fresh fruit delivery from somewhere like Harry & David?

    • It’s been suggested before but some books for the younger and older child would probably be welcome. They don’t take up a lot of space and new ones are always fun.

    • Fancy cigars for dad if he’s that type, fancy food basket for mom (or both mom and dad). Or you could do a gift card for meal delivery.

    • Research, Not Law :

      I hate picking gifts for people who make dramatically more than me… I find “thoughtful” to be the way to go.

      I’m currently pregnant with my second. I would love board books, as my daughter destroyed most of hers, especially if it was your childhood favorite. Easy to grab and eat food is always appreciated, so I second the edible arrangement idea. I don’t make anything close to a junior partner’s salary, so I would love gift cards for take-out meals or house cleaning. (I’m just dreaming now… back to your question…)

      I wouldn’t necessarily shy away from a sentimental keepsake if you feel like you found “the one.” I don’t have the time to fuss over things like that for this babe, so I would appreciate someone doing it for me if they knew my tastes. But I wouldn’t go there just to get *something*.

      Definitely get something for the older child. That will earn you big kudos from child and mom. It should be age appropriate, quiet, indoor, and primarily independent. Think books, coloring book and washable crayons, playdough, or toy cars for a toddler. Friendship bracelet or origami instruction book and supplies, tangram, or puzzle for older children.

      • Second book suggestion – I have found them to be well-received :)

      • gift ideas :

        Didn’t even think about older sib gifts until I saw all of these — thanks! My feeling was that if I got a nice (but simple) sentimental keepsake for mom, the older child (4) wouldn’t even care to look at some silver item. It’s not like I would buy toys or clothes for one and not the other bc I know the older D is feeling left out. How would you feel about a keepsake incorporating both kids’ names? If moms like that, I would totally do it, but I feel like it short-changes the second kid. Being from a large fam, I always found the first kid had way more “personalized” stuff with their name on it. That’s why I wanted to do it for the second one here bc I don’t think the new mom has the time and energy to do it.

        • Always a NYer :

          Go with something personalized for the second child and get a small toy or book for the older child. The two gifts don’t need to be extravagent or expensive but I do think you should get something for the older child as well.

        • Research, Not Law :

          Honestly, if you will be shipping the mom’s gift yourself, I would still include something small for the older child. But I wouldn’t worry about it if you will be sending something directly from a jewler or florist, etc.

          Not sure specifically what you’re thinking of as a sentimental gift for mom with both kids’ names. If it’s something like a necklace or bracelet where each would have its own stone or charm, then I think combining kids is good. If it’s something that typically would only have one name, like a rattle or Christmas tree ornament, then I would do one for just baby and a toy for older child. I hope that helps.

        • Are they Jewish? You can plant trees in Israel in each kid’s name.
          Www DOT JNF DOT org

          • Careful if you are are considering this. Many Jews would be offended by the assumption that religious affiliation means support for Israel. Lots of younger Jews are not knee-jerk pro-Israel.

          • gift ideas :

            They’re not Jewish. Nor am I getting into any gift ideas involving religion or culture, since I don’t have the same background as them.

    • Books are great. Perhaps a “read to me” big kid book and some baby books: Classics like Winnie the Pooh, Wind in the Willows, Beatrix Potter in a hardbound, annotated edition would be good.

      Also agree with the Harry & David fruit basket.

      If you do flowers, a flowering plant is nice. Many “new baby” themed flower arrangements are hideous.

    • PT lawyer :

      For a second child, I like the personalized name books from www dot iseeme dot com. The books spell out the child’s name with animals in the story and in rhyme, ie. A is for Aardvark that flies in the sky, N is for nutria that swims right by, etc. A little hard to explain but a nice, useful gift for a second child that is not going to gather dust.

    • One of my colleagues (who has two young children) said that the best gift she got when she had her first baby was a meal she could just heat up whenever they got around to eating. She said that someone had gotten her some kind of frozen chicken entrees from Omaha Steaks and they were wonderful.

      • gift ideas :

        The food ideas here have been really good. I thought about food but all the “baskets” I have seen are for cookies and other sweets, but I’d imagine “real” food is better for them than an empty sugar high. Keep the ideas coming if there are others — I didn’t even realize that personalized books, token jewelry for the mom with the kids’ names etc. were options. Obviously I’m only looking at the gifts that show up under the stores’ categorization of “new baby gifts.”

        • Someone gave me a basket of fruit and muffins, it was a great gift.

        • I love baskets with sausage, cheese, mustard, crackers, etc. I’ve gotten ones from Hickory Farms that were pretty yummy.

          • Food is the best gift. I had no time to cook when my kids were first born and buying food all the time can be tiring in addition to not being so healthy. I think it would be great to give new moms simple foods that they can freeze and heat up later like soups and stews (didn’t Kat put a blog a few days ago about this?). I also like curries and chili which are good to freeze.

      • I got so inspired by the freezing food post earlier this week that I made pesto, sundried tomato pesto and spaghetti sauce. I froze all of it and I’m going to bring it to my sister-in-law, whose baby is due on the 16th.

    • A nice book? Someone gave me a a big Beatrix Potter book that had all the Peter Rabbit stories in it, it was great for reading out loud when the baby was a little older.

    • I agree to get something for the older child too. For the baby, my go to gift is a baby sling, if they don’t already have one (the Ergo is a good bet). I also think something hand made is a good way to go – a piece of clothing, baby blanket, or toy. Good luck!

    • Diana Barry :

      Books or a Halo sleep sack. Hanna Andersson has nice patterns of the sleep sack, and for books I like any of the Busy books by Rebecca Finn.

      Always a good idea to get something for kid #1 too! Mine loved her baby doll that grandma got.

  8. How do you handle cattiness from a jealous/intimidated colleague, especially when it’s not put in writing and when bosses are either unaware or favor the “cat?” (We’re talking intentional undermining-type stuff.)

    • Anonymous :

      Could you give us some examples?

      Also, I really don’t intend for this to sound mean, but I don’t always understand how people jump from rudeness or catiness to the other person being intimidated or jealous. There could be something completely different going on, including the person just being a jerk. I’m sure sometimes it is actually jealousness or intimidation, but when I hear someone say that, I almost automatically think that the person saying it is also part of the problem.

      • I tend to think that to, especially when it seems like no one else notices it. If they are truly intimiated, than there should be no problem right? I think I’ll need more info to try to give better advice

      • The new person just transferred from another department is underqualified and was made aware by the main office that I was up for the position as well but they thought my plate was already pretty full. She has no degree and I have a Master’s level of education and may go for more. She brings this up constantly (which is why I think this is intimidation or jealousy), that she doesn’t believe I am qualified regardless of how many “fancy” degrees I have, she makes comments to others about my wardrobe or my hair or whatever she can to be negative, none of which are anything more than her taste (I’m not breaking dresscode and comments are more about how she thinks the color of something is ugly). She also agrees to things in person and then, when I send the email confirming and cc the boss, she says she never stated this. I am doing all by email now to help watch my tukas. Our boss is located off-site and the staff on-site are known for never speaking up in situations among staff in the past, so the boss has no idea, she just thinks I’m suddenly hard to work with and such, based off the complains of this new transfer.

        I don’t want to hate my job, nor do I want the negativity to poison the agency or my staff.

        • Your boss doesn’t put two and two together? “she just thinks I’m suddenly hard to work with and such.”

        • Oh, I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this. I agree with the advice to stay above it and be professional, but I have to say I had a similar experience years ago when a long-time assistant got it in for me and made my life miserable for over a year. She only quit when the other secretaries/assistants finally spoke up and told her basically to cut it out.

          That did not stop her from undermining me with my lawyer-colleagues, however. She had been there from the beginning of the firm, and I was the young, new lawyer (after a federal clerkship and two years elsewhere). She had the ear of her boss, who still relies on her to an extraordinary degree, and I think that my relationship with him has been permanently tainted by things that occurred during all that drama. In retrospect, I think that I should have taken this up in a professional way with the two senior partners to let them know “my side of the story,” that the woman was back-stabbing me. She has now done it to enough other employees that the lawyers have all seen the picture, but I was the first new addition to the firm (ever), and unfortunately bore the brunt of it. Thankfully, she has mellowed over the years.

          The sort of comments she is making about your hair, clothes, etc. are so ridiculous, obviously personal, and unrelated to the job that I would hope in your situation that it is already obvious that the woman has a personal issue with you, and that it is her problem. If your boss is off-site, however, he may not be getting the picture. I know in my situation, none of the other staff wanted to get involved for fear of being the next victim, so no one said a word to the senior partners. As a result, the other lawyers went around hearing only the assistant’s complaints.

        • It never hurts to be extra friendly with your boss and colleagues if someone is targetting you. Letting them see you poised and professional reminds them of how petty her accusations are.

    • you ignore it. she/he is doing it to get to you, so don’t let it get to you. see it as her or his issue to deal with, behave in a professional and dignified manner, and move on with your work and life.

      IF it actually becomes a work issue – defined as something that actually threatens your work or your reputation – then you either approach her directly, or you talk to HR. but cross that bridge if and when you get to it.

      • Agree with this advice, but also couldn’t hurt to document specific work-related examples so you will have something to point to with HR. If you can minimize interaction or dependence on her work product, that would be ideal. In instances where you can’t, having a third person around to see when she agrees to an assignment could be useful (and don’t ‘cc the boss unless you have to–that may be part of what is triggering her). Eventually she’ll realize neither of you are going anywhere and hopefully knock it off/tone it down or find someone else to target. It’s important to continue to look like a team player–so don’t be tempted to dish it back. Usually these types are undone by their own actions and the reputations that result. Your colleagues probably see a lot of what is happening (and may even be experiencing some of it themselves). No one likes a bully.

        • This sounds incredibly frustrating! I sympathize. I wouldn’t assume that your boss thinks you are suddenly difficult to work with. Try not to get paranoid about what other people think of you. You don’t need to get all defensive about this. You aren’t doing anything wrong. The kind of comments this co-worker is making are red flags everyone would notice. While other people may not want to get involved, they probably are aware of what’s really going on and sympathize with you. I agree with S that this person is on the path of self-destruction. Don’t get too involved. Try to minimize contact and stay emotionally above it all (your new mantra can be “I won’t let this situation/person control how I feel”). Sometimes it might help to look at it with a dose of humor. Equate her behavior to something Dwight from The Office might do, and have a private chuckle with yoruslef. When she says something infuriating realize it’s just about her, not about you.

  9. Okay. This is another appeal for the Boston Corporette meet-up. We’re meeting at Elephant and Castle, unless we have any major objections to that location. The date and time are 7 pm on Thursday, October 20th. If you’re interested, email me at [email protected] and I’ll send you an invite.

  10. Anonymous :

    I scored an interview for a public defender job in my ideal location. Any PDs out there? What’s the best thing you’ve said/heard in a PD intervew? What’s the worst?

    • Former PD here. When I interviewed to be a PD, one office made me, on the spot, stand up and give a “closing argument” for a fake case the facts of which they’d given me 2 minutes before (literally, no time to prepare). Another asked me about my political affiliations, then gave me a scenario that was completely unethical and asked how I’d handle it. When I replied that I’d alert the judge, as required by ethical rules, he flipped out and ended the interview. I wouldn’t have been a good fit for that office anyway.

      I never interviewed any candidates for PD positions – didn’t stick around that long – but most offices are looking for prior criminal defense work, like externships. Anything on your resume that indicates an activist (liberal) background, especially for criminal justice reform, will also help.

    • I am a PD and I have also done interviews for open positions in our department. I like to see someone who is passionate, yet not over the top. I like to see someone committed to public defense and the ideals in the constitution, and who is also smart. It is okay to talk about the “greater good” aspect of providing public defense, but also recognize that we work with real clients (many of whom are very difficult to work with.) Highlight situations were you have dealt with people during a difficult time in their life, that shows you understand the human side of all this.

      The worst thing I have seen are people who clearly are in it just for the court experience and make it clear they are going to bolt as soon as possible. I mean I recognize that part of my job is to train new lawyers, but at least show some committment and interest.

      Also, not everyone is a raging liberal. I work with a number of rather conservative republicans…

  11. So glad to see this thread! It means the day is almost over. First thing I did this morning when I got out of bed was to step into a pile of cat vomit. One would expect that the day could only get better after that. One would be wrong. Nothing is going right today, nothing works properly today. One of those days that make you wish it was acceptable to drink margaritas at lunch.

    • Research, Not Law :

      So, so sorry. Hopefully you’ll be able to put it all behind you soon – at least until Monday.

    • another anon :

      Oh, stepping in cat puke first thing in the morning is the worst. (Or almost the worst–I once went to get into bed in the dark and put my hand right into a pile of it. Thanks kitty.)

    • girl in the stix :

      Started by sending a news release about an upcoming (celebrity) speaker and getting his name wrong (spelled correctly, but inverted first and middle) in the subject line :-(. I’d rather step in cat vomit! The release itself is perfect, but I’ve had several e-mails about the mix-up. I IMMEDIATELY sent out an errata and an apology, but the deed is done.

      • Margaritas all around for all Corporettes who’ve stepped in things, made a mistake, or had unresponsive or otherwise unpleasant co-workers today!

      • Anonymous :

        Thanks for sharing :) I’ve made 3 stupid mistakes in the last week or so for a partner I recently began working with. I’m beginning to worry I won’t be asked to work with him again.

    • laughing (ruefully, with recognition) at the stepping in cat boke thing – and here’s hoping your weekend picks way up from there! Hope you’re into the margarita by now…

    • So…you’re saying it it NOT acceptable to drink margaritas at lunch? Who knew?

      • Clearly I’ve already had one.

      • Very tempting! My morning was so stressful I ended up hanging up on my boss because I was crying in the UPS store (…long story, but I’m sure she took it OK other than being worried about my sanity!) Ugh. Luckily, it is now the weekend, I am blowing off some work I should do before Monday but won’t, and am filling up my Kindle with new free library books!

      • It’s Mad-Men-O’Clock somewhere… :)

    • I have never had a cat (allergic), and all of the cat puke stories I have read on this blog are really educating me. I had no idea cats puke so much. Kind of like I didn’t realize kids puke so much until I had one.

      • The thing with some cats is that they do not know when they are full and they keep eating until it happens.
        I also have a cat at my parents’ house who would vomit each time he eats chicken bones.. would still cry and meow until he gets to eat chicken bones and puke them…
        Other than that he is extremely intelligent..
        I’ve had a kitten for nearly 2 months and so fat she didn’t puke.. we’ll see

  12. Anonymous :

    I’m curious about salaries. Not what people make, but about how much transparency there is. Do people share salary information with family, friends, colleagues, etc, or keep it private?

    • I will give a range if it pertains to something specific (ie: a close friend asking while interviewing for this same field in the same area), otherwise, I don’t. I’m not upset or ashamed, I just don’t feel it necessary to be judged. Also, I live in NYC so the money seems like a ton compared to what colleagues in smaller towns make yet it’s pretty comparable once cost of living is considered.

    • With my husband and my boss (and HR)? Public. With everyone else? Private.

    • I don’t generally discuss it with anyone but Mr. gov anon. But in some respects it’s sort of a moot point since anyone (including my siblings, my nosy neighbors, and total strangers) can go out on the Internet and, in theory, find out exactly what I make. In theory, because I’ve discovered that the State salary database isn’t entirely accurate. Close enough though for people to feel free to comment on it if they so desire.

      • Ruthy Sue :

        As a public employee, anyone can search and find my salary, along with any reimbursements, health care and any other money I received from my employer. While I understand the transparency since my salary is paid for by the public, it is uncomfortable when:
        1. my sister calls to ask for money because I “can’t possibly spend that all myself” and,
        2. when a guy brings it up on a first date (classy.)
        We are locked into a step system, so within the office everyone knows what everyone else is making. Otherwise, I try to keep it as private as I can.

        • –>when a guy brings it up on a first date (classy.)

          Well, at least you’d know whom not to spend time on.

          Only my mum and my frieds in similar jobs know. I’m a young proffesional so it’s nothing that would make anyone normal think they can ask for money.

      • FL gov't worker :

        Our database is entirely public, but I’ve seen some major mistakes. For a few weeks, we had a junior employee shown as making about $5K more than the direct of his department. Needless to say people were kind of curious as to what he did to deserve that much of a raise. Eventually it went back down to a more reasonable level.

        I think the database has caused a lot of tension in Florida workplaces and has really limited the ability to negotiate. People check the database regularly enough that they’ll know when you get a raise or if Joe with 3 years of experience makes more than Jane with 10 years of experience.

    • My parents know how much I make, roughly, because I usually squeal at them with excitement when I get a raise. A few of my good friends know the general range, because it comes up sometimes in discussions about job searches, student loans, etc. Among colleagues, I think transparency about salary ranges is good, but I don’t really know how much most individuals make. I have discussed it with junior colleagues once or twice when they were looking for a raise and wanted to know what was reasonable, and I also discussed with senior colleagues when I was looking for a raise myself.

    • Research, Not Law :

      Outside of my husband and our financial planner, no one knows my salary.

      I will share the range for my position with colleagues interested in potentially working for my employer, but that’s because it is already posted on job announcements, so I consider it public knowledge. I will share general information about the benefit package that is available to everyone.

      I don’t discuss salary with friends or family, period. I share only vague relative information, such as getting a pay increase with a new position or being underpaid at a former position. They do the same, if that.

      I share even less with coworkers. Nothing, really.

    • Cats Ahoy! :

      My husband and our accountant know what I make, but I don’t share that with anyone else. I have an IT job in a non-law field.

    • MeliaraofTlanth :

      I don’t share with friends. I would love to share with my colleagues of the same class year, though, if only so I could compare (I haven’t b/c I’m not close enough)–I’m at a non-lockstep firm and I can’t help but wonder if my salary is comparable or if some of us are getting the short end of the stick. I sort of miss the transparency of a government salary, though that obviously has it’s disadvantages.

    • I’m a lawyer, and I find most of us are pretty open about it with friends. Maybe it’s an outgrowth of lockstep? I don’t discuss it with colleagues, and I don’t discuss it with family (if only because my father really enjoys finding ways to help me spend my money. No, dad, I do not need to buy a time share in Puerto Rico, but thank you for sending me 10 e-mails on it.).

    • MaggieLizer :

      My mother knows, mostly because she’s super nosy and guilted me into telling her (“Is it so horrible that I want to make sure you’re OK financially? Why won’t you give your mother peace of mind??).

      The starting salary at my firm is public (on NALP) so most of my law-type friends know. It makes me super uncomfortable and quite frankly angry when my friends outside of Mid/BigLaw bring up how much I make. Between the student loans, being single and roommateless, and having to live close to the office because of my hours/availability expectations, I don’t see much more of my income than they do of theirs. Even if I *were* rich, why would you bring that up? Sigh, OK end rant.

    • I know this is the worlds most annoying answer, but…It depends. I don’t mind discussing finances/salaries with most people if we are having a frank conversation about life financial stuff/jobs generally and I feel like it’s not a sizing-you-up situation. However, with some people you just *know* that they will forever more make comments and be generally judgmental. Those people do not (and hopefully never will) know what I make.

      • I definitely do NOT tell my parents! I have in the past shared a range/suggestions with a few colleagues who were applying for other jobs. And then what M said, with friends–I have a lot who make less than me, but a few who make more. One friend was recently trying to negotiate a large raise due to job changes, and we were discussing benefits and bonuses and if he changed to my field (related) what he’d make, and so now we both know! But our other close friend (who was meeting us later) I know she probably makes a little more than me, from discussions we’ve had, but it could be 20% more or less…which is a pretty big range. Some of it is assumptions based on how friends live, which is so not indicative, really…but more to the point, in many ways.

      • I know people are uncomfortable talking Abiut money, and I find it interesting that a lot of people responded “no way no how”….it makes me wonder if they are uncomfortable about people knowing that they make a lot of money? The term “an obscene amount of money” comes to mind…i come from a working class background and I find that a lot of my friends are very open about how much they make. When you are making $10 – $20 an hour I guess there is nothing to hide. Maybe because I come from this background, a lot of the same friends were curious about how much I make because I have a professional job. I’m not ashamed of it so if someone asks or we are talking about finances, I will share. My parents know how much I make…I don’t know why I would hide it from them. Personally I am in favor of public databaseS on pay because it keeps us honest and makes it possible to evaluate, for example, if men and women are being paid the Sam for equal work.

    • Praxidike :

      I find all these responses interesting because I tell people my salary if they ask. I don’t particularly care if they know. I recently changed jobs and I asked a ton of my peers if the salary I was offered was similar to others in the same positions. I found out that the first salary was 20k low, and I got an additional 25k because of it. If I hadn’t, I might not have negotiated as hard for what I wanted.

      • This.

      • lostintranslation :

        I agree. Where I’m living/working, it’s extremely common (esp for new grads) to talk about how much they make. i.e. I’ve never heard anyone say, “I’d prefer not to say.” While this was initially somewhat odd for my American sensibilities, nothing bad happens when you talk about how much money you make. But I can’t shake my entire upbringing, so I don’t ever feel the need to ask how much other people make and just respond if asked.

  13. Sydney Bristow :

    NYC women, have you seen that some police in Brooklyn are aparently warning women to not wear skirts due to the multiple rapes that have happened in the Park Slope area? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44733545/ns/local_news-new_york_ny/

    The entire situation is scary, but I’m not sure this is a way to help. It immediately reminded me of the sl*twalk that occurred awhile ago where I think women wore whatever clothing they wanted to make the point that she is not asking to be attacked by wearing scandalous clothes.

    • My dress is not the problem :

      I agree. I think it’s another example of conveniently blaming women for the problem. A more constructive response would have been for example, to educate everyone on basic self-defense techniques.

      There is another sl*utwalk happening in NYC tomorrow – I think in the Union Square area – if you’re interested.

    • had not seen that. a crappy situation in many ways.

      I don’t think policing women on their attire is helpful, either. Particularly if we’re talking about wearing an average skirt or dress to walk down a neighborhood street.

      As an aside, I would like to walk up to some of the young things I see at bars and clubs and on the subways these days and shake them and say “DO YOUR PARENTS KNOW YOU ARE WEARING THAT?” but that’s neither here nor there. I don’t like the sound of the sl*twalk you mention, either.

      • As an adult (someone old enough to get into clubs/bars), why is it any of someone’s parents’ business what they wear? If I walk out in lingerie, I should be free from rape or assault.

        Who are you (or anyone) to judge what someone else wears to want to “shake them” or to think someone’s parent has any say in what their adult child wears? Also, I don’t know if you’ve done any research on what a slutwalk is, but the only opposition is the belief that a woman CAN dress a certain way and be asking for assault/rape.

        • oh, it’s none of my business, i freely admit it. that’s why i don’t actually say anything, think whatever i think, and move on. if you’re the kind of person who has never had a private critical thought in your head about someone else, good for you, but i’m not that person.

          as for the slutwalk, which i had never heard of until now – i still don’t like the sound of it. why not take a self defense class? why not lobby for more police presence in the streets? or for better street lighting, for safer public spaces, for more public transportation, for tougher rape laws … etc? why does wearing lingerie (or whatever) in public and voluntary labelling yourself a slut seem more practical or more effective? is it supposed to be shock awareness? i just don’t get it.

          i mean no disrespect, and i guess we’ll never agree on this. i wouldn’t walk out on the street in lingerie, and nor would i venture down a dark alley at night by myself. it’s not about blame and personal rights. it’s about beating the odds.

          • Sydney Bristow :

            I think all of the things that you mentioned are also important. My understanding of sl*twalk is that they are trying to change people’s thinking. The NYPD is just the most recent example of people blaming women for being raped, when that is just not the case. The women who participate are trying to get people to change their thinking on the subject, which as far as I’m concerned is also important along with the other specific examples you provided.

          • The issue here is that people, including the police, believe that there are things a woman can wear that cause it to be her fault if she is assaulted or raped.

            The purpose of solidarity in this is that it is NEVER ok and it is NEVER the victim’s fault.

          • It was a protest in response to a police officer giving a lecture on a college campus and saying that if women don’t want to be raped, “they shouldn’t dress like sluts.”

            I don’t really understand why people think rapists are more or less likely to attack someone based on what they’re wearing. If you’re the type of person who is willing to rape someone, you’re not going to be deterred because your victim is modestly dressed in jeans and a sweatshirt. It’s about exerting power and control, not being overcome with irrepressible lust.

          • Agree, rape is about power and control, not uncontrollable lust.

            When creeps are choosing likely victims, though — say, scanning women at a bar for someone to start flirting with — i think they do rely on behavioral signals, and some of those behaviors can include how much a girl is drinking, how flirty she is with other patrons, and yes, how she’s dressed.

            I really wish it was possible to have a civil conversation about risks and safety without tipping over into the blame game. Is it ever OK to attack/rape a woman? No. Do you have a right to wear what you want and walk wear you like? Yes. But there are still ways to behave that can minimize risks. I don’t see why this has to be offensive to anybody.

          • To to Em – I’ll submit that if that happens (and is there really good evidence on that?), a large part of the reason why is because rapists know they’re more likely to get away with raping women who are dressed in a certain way. We can’t have a civil conversation about risks unless we’re also remembering that and trying to deconstruct it, because otherwise we’re just reinforcing the same narratives that lead to certain women being targeted for rape. (And I KNOW there is good evidence that poorer women and women of color are more likely to be raped and sexually assaulted – I think the same factors are at work, which is a travesty.)

            When it comes to things like self defense and safe drinking practices (like teaching young people not to abandon drunk friends in bars or parties and not to leave their drinks unattended), I’m all for it. But we can’t pretend that wearing a short skirt or being a friendly, flirty person is inherently linked to higher risk of sexual assault. IF there is evidence that it is, we need to look at the social factors that lead to that being true. S*utwalk is one way of addressing those social factors head-on and trying to counter them and make people think about their assumptions re women and dress.

        • Yep, women are free to walk around looking like sluts and should not get raped. But, people will judge you for it anyway, K. My pet peeve is women who dress very sexy and don’t own it. Example, I heard JLo pretend to be surprised by the reaction to the green dress with the neckline down to her navel. If you are rocking a short skirt, stop pulling it down. Ditto the cleavage: uncross those arms, sweetie! And, for the Love of God, do not act disgusted when men actually give you the attention that you are seeking!

    • They may have specific information that the suspect is targeting women wearing skirts and dresses, but don’t want to release that info for some reason. I don’t know anything about this particular case, but if they have specific information about a specific suspect, then they’re not really victim blaming but rather trying to keep women from being targeted.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        You may be right about that, but a woman in the article says she was confronted by a cop for wearing short shorts. If the focus was really on skirts, then that doesn’t make much sense to me.

      • Anonymous :

        Nope.
        I would like to warn men against wearing pants because 83% of male murder victims were targeted while wearing pants.
        Unacceptable.

        • I completely agree – that said, I do remember taking a self-defense class in college and the police officer teaching it pointing out that skirts and heels are harder to run away in and advising us to ditch too-tall heels if that made a difference to get away. I wish I remembered what she had said about the skirt. I do remember her saying rape had nothing to do with what the victim wears, but that possibility of getting away can be affected by choice of attire.

      • When I first read this thread I thought perhaps they were advising women not to wear skirts because it is somehow “easier” for a man to rape a woman in a skirt versus if she’s wearing pants. But upon the reading the article, it is clear that the cops think women are inviting rapists by “showing skin” and that is just not acceptable.

  14. DC via Chicago :

    My best friend has asked that I take her for to buy “real” make up and has sensitive skin. I would also like to go somewhere the salesperson could teach her how to apply the makeup in a manner that’s non threatening to someone who’s not a girly-girl. My go to is Laura Mercier. Any thoughts?

    • LadyEnginerd :

      I’m no girly-girl and Laura Mercier is my go-to. I like that their brand’s specialty is the polished no-makeup makeup look, and that anything else can build on that simple polished base.

      Tightlining her eyes could be intimidating for her. For me it took lots of practice and cursing when I stabbed myself in the eye with the brush. On the other hand, the tightliners are a big part of why I like the brand so much.

      • Regular Tightliner :

        I tightline every day primarily because I am not a girly girl and this makes my eyes look bigger without looking done. So your friend might like tightlining if she doesn’t want to look as if she is wearing a lot of makeup.

        Re the stabbing yourself in the eye with a brush issue (always bad): I use Tarte Emphaseyes pencil in Charcoal. It is teeny tiny, so it fits just right into the base of my eyelashes from the underside. Also, so long as you apply the pigment along the base of the lashes, and not on the inner rim (where, when you blink, it will transfer to the lower rim, from which position it will drip down your cheek), it lasts all day.

        The Sephora brand twist pencils are also good for tightlining, but they are a littlewider than the Tarte one.

      • Tired Squared :

        What is tightlining?

    • SAlit-a-gator :

      I love Laura Mercier’s line. I was introduced to it by a friend with super-sensitive skin and it worked wonders for her. I also think this is a great line for a non-girly girl, as the focus is on looking like the best you, not some airbrushed concoction with neon blue eye shadow. Great choice!

    • Love Laura Mercier. I would also suggest that when choosing which stylist to help you that she likes the way the stylist has put on her make up. Otherwise, it may spell disaster.

    • I second the Laura Mercier. Also recommend calling a Bluemercury or Nordstrom store to see when the LM artists will be in for their event (they always have one in spring and fall) and see if you can get appointments.

    • Third for Laura Mercier and also suggest Bobbi Brown. I’ve used both of those for years and love how nothing Bobbi Brown makes is too over-the-top. It’s very beginner friendly.

    • I really like Laura Mercier too. I’d add that Giorgio Armani has some of the best foundation make-up that I’ve found, really light and doesn’t bother my sensitive skin.

    • I have extremely sensitive skin, and Clinique is pretty much the only brand I can manage. Also, mineral makeup is much less likely to cause irritation and breakouts than non-mineral makeup.

      • For those of you with very sensitive skin, I would recommend Dr Hauschka. They make natural remedies, skin care, and make up. It’s the only thing input on my face!

  15. Is there such thing as a professional bulliten board? I really want like a cork board for my office but it feels a little college-y

    • I have 2 in my office… 1 that’s a pushpin type and the other is from the 3M company and is sticky (sort of)… I make sure the information on it is work-related and isn’t tacked up over each other and it seems to avoid looking college or dorm room

      • anon prof :

        I have an entire wall of corkboard in my office and love it. I have a different section for each project and put things up so I can find them quickly, and then I file them away if the project is done or I won’t need it for a long time. It helps me remember projects that otherwise might slip by.

      • Pottery Barn has some nice ones as well, that don’t look too college-y

    • I could not do without my bulletin board. Ditto my whiteboard. Both of them are your standard, run-of-the-mill boards and my view is that they are there to fulfil a utilitarian purpose, so I am not concerned about how they look. They end up getting completely covered up anyway.

      I have a few inspirational quotes and photos I like on my bulletin board as well as work-related stuff. If I am sitting in my office all day, I might as well be surrounded by things that I like, law-related or not.

    • Maybe a magnetic board would be more your style? I have a magnetic whiteboard calendar at home that I love and would be lost without.

  16. One of my good guy friends was very unexpectedly laid off yesterday. He called me last night, and I let him talk for about a half hour and mostly listened. He’s a great guy, and though he feels shocked, upset and lost at the moment, I know he’ll be ok once he gets everything figured out. I want to be supportive, but I’ve never been in the situation personally, so I don’t know what kinds of things he needs to hear right now. We’re meeting up for a drink tonight, and I was hoping that I could get some advice on what to to say (or not to say?). Thanks!

    • He will want to be comforted, but be carful, b/c men like to drink and get drunk and then watch out.

      Be suportive, tell him he will get another job and tell him there are alot of other people who are out there, and not get to upset over this b/c this will pass.

    • Be a good listener and let him vent. You don’t need to agree with everything he says, but be willing to listen and empathize with the feelings of confusion and disappointment.

      Offer to help him in his job search, if and when he decides to start looking; send him contacts, headhunters, or postings, read his resume, do practice interviews, etc.

      Try not to disparage his company or his boss. You don’t know anything about what really happened, and it won’t help him to move on.

    • show up and say little… he needs to vent and to feel validated in his emotions. Remind him why he’s awesome and offer to help if he needs a hand proofreading his resume or whatnot.

      Don’t get into bashing others or “well someone else I knew did this….” stories… it’s about him and him getting it out so he can begin to move on

    • Research, Not Law :

      Ditto anon and K. During the recession, myself, my husband, and several friends have been laid off. Listen and support. Don’t bash. And as tempting as it is, don’t “solve” or point out the silver lining until they go there.

      FYI, sometimes people go through a high first, then crash. Others start low and get better.

    • I think it is fine to acknowledge that sometimes life stinks and is not fair. However, the best thing you can is help him develop a game plan- including networking, resume proofing, resume submitting, etc. You can help with the networking by introducing him to people he may not know in his industry or who could help him figure out what to do next.

    • I’ve been laid off twice. Let him vent and buy his drinks.

      He just needs to relax now. On Monday, he can get on Monster and Careerbuilder.

  17. Barrister in the Bayou :

    Recently discovered Pinterest and I am slowly becoming obsessed with it. Are any Corporettes on? If so, what do you think?

    For those not familiar with Pinterest… it is a website/app that allows you to attach images to pinboards that you organize by topic. So you can have boards board for books that you would recommend, things you would wear, things that look yummy, etc.

    Just another distraction ;-) But a fun one!

  18. Jumping in early, and looking for a fabulous tailor in Philadelphia. Go!

    • Joseph’s at 20th and Walnut (slightly more expensive, but trusted for bridesmaid dress alterations and the like); Master Cleaners between 16th and 17th on Spruce (earned my trust for jobs of all sorts – from pants hemming t0 taking in only the top half of a knit dress to creating side slits in a tunic top b/c I’m a 0 in the waist and a 6 in the hips).

    • Anonymous :

      The dry cleaners on fifteenth and Samson. They are awesome. Totally redid a bridesmaid dress for me that I was forced into buying like four sizes too large and other tailors told me was impossible to tailor that much given the structure of the dress. Also my go to for tailoring shift dresses, etc. Really reasonable prices.

      A bonus is that the show repair place next door is excellent and really cheap too.

  19. Anon for this :

    Regular commenter – anon for this:

    Anyone have any experience with a parent (or ideally a S.O.’s parent) being unemployed for extended periods of time?

    My S.O.’s parent has been unemployed for about 2 years after a few decades of a very successful career. A potential new opportunity just recently fell through, and it’s hard on all parties. I’m not sure how best to support my S.O. and his parents through this (we aren’t married yet so I feel that changes things a bit). Any words of wisdom?

    • I think all you can do is to listen and be supportive/encouraging when possible. Also, when you get together with the person, suggest low-cost or free locations/options and try to talk about things not related to work so the person doesn’t feel left out.

      • Research, Not Law :

        Agree to all this. And be interested in whatever they are doing in the mean time, be it reading books, taking long afternoon walks, teaching their old dog new tricks, etc.

    • anon for this :

      Ugh, regular poster, but anon for this just in case. I have so been here. It’s definitely hard. I think it would be easier to not be the wife (i.e., to not yet be married) because it does take a lot of the money pressure out of it, but it’s definitely a hard position. My recommendation is to be really supportive of your SO and his feelings on the issue. My husband gets really frustrated at his parent for not working harder to find a job, for complaining about their situation, and for looking to him to fund all of our group activities. The hardest is the effect it has on holidays and other “family rituals.” You may find yourself and your SO having to take over some things for the good of the family (i.e., hosting or purchasing certain food for thanksgiving dinner). Just be there for your SO and allow him to vent. He obviously can’t vent to his parents and it’s probably not an issue he wants to talk to friends about. He’s probably going to want to talk and will need you.

  20. La Suisse :

    Bag ID Help! I have a beautiful black leather cross-body purse that I got at Filenes oh-so-long ago. The tag on the inside says “Arturo, New York Milan.” It has a zipper all the way along the top and gold detailing.

    I can’t find the brand anywhere else! I have searched everything I can think of online, and even taken it to Nordstrom and Bloomingdales to ask if they had ever seen the brand– no luck. This is a seriously awesome bag, and I would buy anything else by that brand in a heartbeat. Also, my secretary has oohed and ahed over it for a long time, and I was hoping to find it or something similar to get for her for a gift.

    Has anyone heard of this brand? Are there any other resources I can try? Thanks!

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