Coffee Break – Ninfea 1 Pump

Moschino Cheap and Chic Women's Ninfea 1 PumpAt first I thought these shoes had cutouts to resemble polkadots — but really, they’re made entirely of patent leather flowers. (Daisies, I believe; flowers are not my strong point.) No, the pumps are not for everyone, but I think these could be a great way to accessorize a casual day at the office. They’re $475 at Endless. Moschino Cheap and Chic Women’s Ninfea 1 Pump




  1. I actually like these, but find the name ironic for a pair of $475 shoes!!

  2. Anon for this :

    Anyone have any recommendations in the DC area for a place to be screened for/doctor for treatment for adult ADD or ADHD? Thanks!

    • In The Pink :

      PI hope this isn’t too late for you, Anon. I understand that many with ADHD have “now” and “Not Now” timelines, so I hope I’ve responded in your “now.” I saw your post on another message topic, so I’m responding asap.

      Probably the best bet is to try and contact Patricia Quinn, M.D. She’s a good, practical author on the topic and seems to be in DC.

      The assessment for adults is not too lengthy; usually a history, self-report questionnaires, perhaps a computerized continuous performance test, and then off to treatment. This is, of course, unless you need accommodations in academia or the work setting.

  3. These look like a super expensive version of some black/grey jelly shoes I had as a kid in the early 90s.

  4. I will give my second born child (I would probably want the first one) to whomever can tell me how to get my hands on the dress worn by the Duchess in the first post on my tumblr account.

    Its of course sold out everywhere because…well…duh.

  5. onehsancare :

    Kat, you’re kidding, right? $475 for open-toed, 3.25 inch heels with cut-out daisies for a “casual day at the office”?

  6. Research, Not Law :

    I don’t know about these. I’m giving them a major side-eye, but I bet that somewhere someone is doing a happy dance because they finally found the shoe they have been looking for all these years.

    I’m here to publically eat my words. I was convinced that a maxi skirt could work in a casual office and thought naysayers were being stodgy. I’ve worn mine a couple of times and felt like it wasn’t working. I’ve also been observing others in the office wearing theirs. I can’t remember who said it, but maxi skirts are to skirts as pajama bottoms are to pants. While I am still within the framework of our extremely lax to the point of non-existent dress code, maxi skirts have officially been placed on my personal not-work-appropriate list.

    Forgive me, ‘rtts, for I have sinned.

    • I agree – cute, but not for me. Although my style is pretty minimalist and as streamlined as it gets, so they weren’t making these with me in mind.

      My office dress code is also anything-goes, but I have my rules as well! No maxi skirts, no shorts and no denim. Partly because I’m young (and look even younger), and partly because I feel like doing more work when I’m wearing, well, “work” clothes.

    • >maxi skirts are to skirts as pajama bottoms are to pants

      That is a really good analogy, and I agree with you completely. I’m glad you’re back on the side of goodness and light.

    • long-time lurker :

      I can’t get behind the trend for public wear. I like my legs and always feel frumpy when I wear one. Yet I see other women wearing them and looking elegant. I can’t seem to pull the maxi skirt off.

    • I’ll admit to wear a maxi shirt or dress to the office – but only on Saturdays (with the craziness going on in my office right now, there’s actually alot of people hear on Saturdays). If my boss can get away with shorts and boat shoes, I’m wearing my maxi dress (but only on Saturday).

      • They’re a Saturday office item for me too. My office is an anything-but-denim-and-shorts dress code Monday through Thursday, and a couple of the associates do wear maxi skirts sometimes, but it always looks wrong to me. I’ve yet to see it look professional.

  7. These look like shoes from Payless. I like them as something fun and kitsch but I would never ever pay $400 for them. I’d put them at around $50.

  8. LOVE THEM! Not sure that I would be brave enough to wear them, but oh my: instant shoe-gasm.

    • anon-oh-no :

      I LOVE them too. i dont, however, get why everyone is complaining about the cost. They are expensive because they are made by an expensive brand. I’m not commenting on whether they are worth it or not, as that is some other philisophical debate on whether any brand should be charging this kind of money for shoes etc, nor am i commenting on whether people should spend this kind of money on shoes etc, but i just dont get why people are always complaining about the cost of stuff. If you like something and cant afford it or dont want to afford it, look for something similar at a lower price point. i think thats whats fun about fashion.

  9. SF Bay Associate :

    Paging TCFKAG and co – I own the JCrew watercolor leopard pencil skirt (link to follow) and love it, but I have actually never worn it because I cannot figure out what the heck to wear it with. I tried to wear it again today to work and could not figure out what to match/pair it with, so I gave up. Please help me. At this point, I’m willing to buy anything so I can finally wear it.

    • SF Bay Associate :
    • The same light blue or grey in the pattern, maybe? It’s hard to see what the colours are exactly from links online.. it looks a bit purpley/grey. I think I would try a soft grey.

    • Agh, I’m moderation, so I’ll try posting the names/item numbers in case…

      Classiques Entier® ‘Novita’ Ruffle Silk Blouse – deep gray
      Diane von Furstenberg ‘Anne’ Top – nude
      Elie Tahari Exclusive for Nordstrom ‘Valeria’ Blouse – Purple option, but I think the tone may be a hair off
      Halogen® Drape Neck Sleeveless Blouse – another purple option that might be better

      The colors are hard for me to read in that picture, but I’d go neutral on top and then maybe some accessories to complement the skirt

    • I would just treat this as a gray pencil skirt and pair it with whatever I normally wear with gray pencil skirts. The design’s not so loud that you wouldn’t be able to wear it with different colors.

    • emcsquared :

      I have a similar skirt, and I like to wear blue (especially navy) with it – either a navy top and gray or cream cardigan, or a crisp cream/white button-front top with a shrunken navy blazer. I’ve also been known to wear either an orange or pink cardigan with it when I’m feeling adventurous. And my beloved gray pumps, of course.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Have you tried cobalt with this? I think that would be great. Honestly, I’d do almost any bright including coral, yellow, or bright purple. Also, I wouldn’t let the cream background stop me from wearing a white shirt — I think cream and white can be a sophisticated combination. Also? I love polka dots with leopard so I might wear my gray blouse with white polka dots with this.

      I also like the idea of just treating it as a gray skirt.

    • I have this skirt and wear it with simple navy or maroon/eggplant tops. I’ve also tried it with a black top and purple pumps.

    • OK, you may have already done this, but when I’ve had this problem, I devote 45 minutes to dressing up. I pull out EVERYTHING in my wardrobe that has the faintest hint of going with the hard-to-style piece, including accessories. Then I start trying stuff on with the hard-to-style piece. For example, I might try on something lime green with something kelly green–even though I know they won’t match–because I want to see how the shapes go together. At the end of the session, I have usually either (a) found something in my wardbrobe that surprisingly goes with the piece, or (b) discovered exactly what I need to go out and buy (e.g., a scarf like this one I own would look great with the skirt, but is the wrong color; or the cardigan looked OK but a white, cropped one would be perfection). Maybe creative fashion people can do this in their heads, but I actually need to see it.

  10. Hmm. These shoes seem too formal to be casual (shiny, black, strap across foot, relatively thin heel) and too whimsical/casual to work in a more formal environment. I have a pair of shoes that are like that – too cutesy to be worn with a skirt/dress, imo, but they do look adorable just peaking out from under wideleg pants.

  11. Constance Justice :

    I just need to tell someone about what just went down in my office.
    I work in a small firm and I am one of two associates. We had mid year reviews last week. Mine went really well and I got a substantial raise and bonus! Woohoo! But, the other associate just walked in my office to tell me that they told him his hours were low and he needed to pick it up. He told me that he told them, “well, I didn’t have enough work since you hired Constance. you keep assigning her work I should be doing.”

    I just said “huh.” And he said “just a heads up!” And walked out. What is the point of telling me any of this garbage? Coworkers are fun.

    • Cornellian :

      Awkward. There’s not much in that statement to make you look bad, to be honest.

      Is he senior to you?

      • Constance Justice :

        He is very senior to me, but I don’t think there is any way this is going to bring harm to me. I just think it is a really awkward thing to do. Maybe not worth mentioning. Like I said. Tiny firm. I guess I’m just reaching out for social interaction!

    • karenpadi :

      Congrats on the excellent review! He’s trying to guilt-trip you into giving some of your work to him ala “it’s all your fault my hours are low because you are hoarding all the work so I blame you for my mediocre review.” Do with that what you will.

    • phillygirlruns :

      yeah, unnecessary and somewhat awkward.

    • Sounds like this guy isn’t long for this world. Ride it out. The fact that they’re giving you his work speaks for itself.

      • Exactly what I thought. If they are assigning “his” work to you, that means he is not doing his actual work well enough. He needs to focus on getting the job done instead of just being jealous of you.

        • Constance Justice :

          Wow, I hadn’t thought about that. Well now I kind of feel like a jerk for tooting my own horn. I’m a little proud of myself though. Huzzah!

          • Toot that horn! You worked hard and paid off. Feeling proud of yourself and shouting Huzzah to people on the internet is the appropriate reaction.

            The appropriate reaction for your coworker would have been to ask how he could improve his hours / the quality of his work. Instead, he blamed you during his review (and accidently implied that you are awesome, which they already know) and tried to make you feel bad about your work because your awesomeness makes him look bad by comparison. He is the one with the incorrect reaction.

            You keep tooting; I’ll be annoyed at him on your behalf.

        • Maddie Ross :

          I don’t know, in his defense (not that he necessarily deserves it, but I’m just sayin’…), it may be a situation where Constance is less expensive than him and that’s why she is getting more work. Esp. if the work Constance is doing is all directly for the partners and the other associate is more senior and should really be starting to bring in his own clients.

          • Constance Justice :

            You hit the nail on the head with the second part. His bigger issue is (surprise!) his personality has limited who he can work for. In that sense, I don’t really feel too bad for the guy.

          • This is it exactly. He’s more senior so he should be brining in his own clients. Instead, he expects the more senior partners to be feeding him work when apparently it’s the type of work that a junior person can do.

            Constance, keep rocking on. It sounds like you’re doing everything right. Your co-worker is a dope.

    • and congrats on the bonus & raise! pow pow!

    • JSFAMO girl. You’re rocking it. He’s sinking like a rock. And he knows it.

    • I’m not trying to rain on your parade (you should be proud of your good review), but do take this message from what the other associate said: the firm has demonstrated that it will not hesitate to bring in someone cheaper when you get more senior if you don’t develop your own business or niche expertise. To put your colleague’s awkward comment in a charitable light, maybe he really was trying to give you a heads up.

    • It sounds like you are doing great work and this guy took the wrong approach. So pat yourself on the back for a job well done. But, do consider whether anything about this situation has a message about your firm’s culture (will they replace you with someone cheaper in a few years?). And, also use this information to your advantage when possible. For example, don’t volunteer for any projects if you are already busy and stressed out–sounds like he has room on his plate for some extra projects if that situation comes up.

    • I have no PEERS just partner’s and the Manageing partner who run’s my day and eats sardines (ugh)!!!!

      Today he told me that Jim like’s my work –DOH!

      I did not bring up Jims’ interest in dateing me. I am not sure what to do.

  12. Sale Question :

    I have been waiting and waiting to buy the Super 120’s suit from j crew. (I know it’s not out collective favorite, but my size is gone in crepe/gab in the color I want). So my question: does anyone know if j crew does the occasional 30% off the site like BR does (or how I can get a one-time coupon code)? Or alternatively, can you suggest another prettily-tailored charcoal grey wool suit from somewhere else that might substitute? TYIA!

    • In general, no. The best you can usually hope for is free shipping if you spend $x (usually around $150, I think). You can get a discount if you open a J.Crew card, I believe. And if you already have a J.Crew card, then you’ll accrue a lot of points by purchasing a suit, which will get you a gift card for $50 or something like that down the road. I think I have this suit, in the charcoal gray, and I highly recommend it.

    • They often do 20% sitewide, usually it goes up on a Tuesday or Wednesday. The fall line rolled out in stores today (my bff is a manager at jcrew/my enabler) so I would expect a 20% in a couple of weeks to get their inventory moving.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      Are you a student? You can get a 15% student discount if you are.

      • Yes I am a student. I imagine I’d have to buy at a B&M to get student discount, so they can see my id? I’d need a size special-ordered, but I guess the in-store personal shopper can do that so I can get the discount without ordering online. This might help, thanks!

        • I’ve been able to place the order over the phone to get a student discount in the past.

        • Yes, you can definitely go in-store to do this and get the discount. And the 25% off coupons only come with some catalogues. No idea how they choose who to give the coupon to — when I lived in a townhouse that had several apartments, there were four ladies on the J. Crew mailing list and not all of us would get the coupons each time. (On the cover of the catalogue, it would say “look on page X for a surprise!” and that would be the coupon.)

    • do you have an amex card? whenever i get a j.crew catalogue in the mail there’s a unique coupon code for 25% off when i use my amex.

    • I bought my Super 120s suit using a student discount (in store). I’ve also seen J.Crew use discount codes like “SHOPNOW” or something like that from time to time.

    • a passion for fashion :

      i got it in navy pinstripe way on sale about 5 months ago. the whole pants suit was maybe 200 bucks. so yes, they go on sale, but maybe stalk for size and color of your liking.

    • MissJackson :

      Almost everything at JCrew goes on sale eventually if you’re willing to wait it out. And then, once it’s on sale (or “promo” which is similar, but not exactly the same — promo items usually go back to full price eventually), JCrew will often offer 20-30% off of sale/promo prices. always posts the sale codes, and people leave comments about how things fit, what’s on sale in store, etc. It’s a very good reference if you’re looking for something in particular (you can even ask posters to let you know if they see a particular item in stock in their home b&m store — then you can call the store and order at the in-store price (which is almost always better than the online price in my experience)).

    • SoCal Gator :

      I happened to be in J Crew today and they told me they just got in some of their fall line clothes yesterday, including many of those wonderful polka dotted items. So for the polka dotty folks like myself, I can report that:

      1. the navy and white polka dot dress is super cute but very very high waisted so was a no-go for me;

      2. the navy and white polka dot short sleeve tie blouse (the tie is off center) paired with the matching pleated skirt is extremely cute but way too short for me to even consider (I am 5’6″ and the size 2, which was loose, hit quite a few inches above the knees) making it not an office option (I looked like a little girl in it and not a grown woman);

      3. the cream and gray polka dot blythe silk blouse is gorgeous and I bought it;

      4. The Tippi sweater in burgundy with large navy polka dots was also a must-buy so I did; and

      5. The cashmere sweaters with smaller polka dots are astonishing beautiful but way too expensive for me to even try them on.

      Also, there are some very nice scarves with polka dots — saw a purple one with I think navy polka dots. The polka dot items are flying off the shelves.

      • Shut. The. Front. Door.
        a SHORT SLEEVE blouse with polka dots????? with actual sleeves, that are short but with actual sleeves????? darn it, that blouse needs to get its a$$ into my closet.

      • I need that Tippi sweater stat!

      • MissJackson :

        My polka dot obsession is also in full force. That Tippi sweater is in my online shopping cart, too, and I’m trying to decide if I want to wait for it to go on sale. I also really like the look of the optic-dot boatneck — a different take on polka dots!

        I also love the J Crew cashmere polka dot sweaters — but I don’t think J Crew cashmere is worth anywhere near that price, and I wouldn’t pay that much for something that novel. The good news is that Old Navy has a cotton sweater that’s nearly identical — which I grabbed for less than $20 (the appropriate price for something that will probably be a “weekend only” wear for me, and will look “very 2012″ in 2-3 years). It arrived yesterday, and it fits well. Don’t expect it to last forever, but I think it’s great for the price.

  13. Calling Petunia! Did you see this?
    The Riverwalk is becoming an outlet mall! An upscale outlet mall? What do you think they mean by upscale. If there’s a Kate Spade, I might hyperventilate.
    Sheesh, DSW and upscale outlets – all in one week. What’s New Orleans coming to?

  14. momentsofabsurdity :

    One of my friends made The Hills 50 Most Beautiful people this year! (No, she isn’t Michele Bachman…)

    So amusing and exciting!

  15. Free at last :

    To separated or divorced women: how did you keep your desire for men in check after breaking free from the spouse? Where did you start in terms of dating? How did you struggle with “I am now x years older than the last time I did this”? How did dating fit into your new life? Finally how did you find the courage to settle down again? Feedback much appreciated!

    • >how did you keep your desire for men in check after breaking free from the spouse

      uh…. I didn’t?

      You know what they say – you have to get under it to get over it.

    • Anon in PNW :

      Not sure how helpful this is, but I’ll play:

      – I started dating about 8 months after we separated, right before my divorce became final in 2007. I wish I had waited longer, because the guilt I had from dating prior to my divorce becoming final poisoned what could have been a terrific relationship.

      – I am still struggling with the age thing. I am about to turn 32. All my friends are married. I know I have a lot to offer (great career, warm person, and can still fit into my pom uniform from high school). However, there is nobody left. Certainly nobody interested in a 32 year old divorcee. YMMV: I am in the PNW, where all the men are covered with tattoos.

      – Re settling down, I am actually driving away a man right now who wants to move in with me [and, potentially, “spend the rest of (his) life with (me)”]. I don’t have any courage left. I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about unwinding a household if things went south. Heck, I don’t even want my extended family to know I have a boyfriend, because then I won’t have to tell them about the inevitable break-up 5 months or 25 years from now.

      I’m sorry I cannot be more helpful, but at least wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

      • Anne Shirley :

        If you are on track I-don’t-want-you-to-meet-granny-yet, and he is on track rest-of-our-lives, consider that you are driving him away. He is driving you away with his uber fast for you level of commitment. There are lots of men left, and remember, you don’t need lots of men. Just one, if he’s the right one.


      • Dont’ write yourself off… I’m pretty sure my ex is now dating a ~32 year old divorcee, and I’m pretty sure that she was the impetus for our breakup, not just the neverending long distance.

        • The above comment seems unintentionally b*tchy or something. What I am meaning to say is that “divorcee” isn’t really a stigma (at least not for most guys) like you might feel it is. My ex is a really great guy and he was interested enough in this woman to decide to end our relationship so he could pursue her, whereas prior to her he thought I was worth waiting for and dealing with the distance. I too struggle with feeling like there isn’t anyone left, but I guess my point is that this woman might have thought that too — in similar shoes to you — and yet she met him.

    • I moved out at 34, we were divorced a year later. I started dating immediately but kept the dating portion of my life separate from my home life for a long time (teen-age sons at home). Frankly I was also afraid of failure so I dated a lot of Mr OK for Right Now guys and had no interest in getting into a viable relationship.

      I also did a lot of work on me–counseling, processing what went wrong that was mine to own and what wasn’t my issue.

      I met Mr. EDJ3 four years after my divorce and wouldn’t date him for three years because he was a great guy and lined up with everything I had finally figured out I would ideally love to have in a man. Three years!

      About a month after 9-11, his entire division was laid off and I know this will sound hokey but I knew I’d made a mistake and I was supposed to be in his life already. So I reached out, and a few months later we started dating (Jan 2002). He asked me to marry him a year later and we’ve been married for almost nine years.

      I’m here to say I had no idea marriage could be fun. This is the most amazing thing that’s happened to me and (sorry sons) that includes having had children. If I hadn’t gotten over my fear, I would have never had this.

      That’s my story–obviously others have had different experiences.

  16. Complete and utter TJ!

    I would be really interested to know, for those of you who are currently in long term relationships or got married after being in one, what made you decide to get married when you did? I’m asking from the standpoint of a really amazing, even-indecisive-me-knows-this-is-it 5-year relationship. We both want a family in a few years but not immediately and are both very focused on some new work situations, which are scary but really promising.

    Everyone around me is getting married. We both decided we’re it a while ago, but it doesn’t feel like a great time to focus on wedding stuff or like we need to be in a rush. On the other hand, of course it would be fun to celebrate what we have, and I wonder when I’ll know it’s the ‘right’ time…. or perhaps he’ll decide?

    Hope this rambling makes sense to someone- would love some insight from this crowd!

    • This is going to sound super shallow. I wanted a fall wedding because I like fall food and fall colors. I didn’t want a fall wedding immediately after taking the bar. So we picked the fall the year AFTER taking the bar (which meant I could do much of the planning during law school). Also, we were sick of hearing about it from his parents.

      Meh. Once you’ve decided on the to do, the when seems somewhat more about logistics.

      • You said what I want SO much better. And it doesn’t sound shallow (or we’re both in the same end of the pool). Fall = less frizzy hair. Sold.

      • phillygirlruns :

        why in god’s name would that be shallow? dude, it was your wedding. you’re SUPPOSED to plan it for when you want it and when it works for you.

        and bar exam? it’s practical to plan your wedding around things like that…definitely not shallow!

    • I lost some relatives, and my grandma was not getting any younger – wanted to make sure she could go (I’m the first granddaughter). Also to make people stop asking “when are you getting married?” She was there, it was great that she was, and she’s still kicking 6 years later. But I would have regretted it if I had missed the opportunity to include her.

    • Not married, know it’s coming. We’ve talked about it extensively and I think we’ve gotten to a point of within a certain time frame (married sometime between now and 4 years) and then the wedding planning can go from there. I know we’re going to be with each other forever (cheesy, why yes I am) so to me the wedding is really just a party to celebrate what we have. I think at some point you bite the bullet and start thinking about when/where you want to have it, how much its going to cost (if that’s a factor for you guys) and start saving/planning. For me the biggest part of it is to have long enough to plan that (in theory) I can reduce some of the stress.

    • I woke up one day and wanted to get married (after about 8 years together). Had never really felt an urge to do so before, but then one day decided I was ready. The frustrating part was our 1.5 year engagement after that (law school/job planning) – I was ready to go to the courthouse the day I decided it was time but DH wanted a wedding.

    • I’m also in an awesome 5 year relationship and we just got engaged last week. We’d been talking about it for a long time (about a year) and our personal and professional lives were finally starting to stabilize and it feels like getting married will continue the theme of “things are working out, life is good, and we’re in a happy, stable place.” Plus we just bought a car together, so we’re already legally tied together for the near future!

      But also…his dad has been having some health problems lately (two heart surgeries this year) and I was devastated to not be included in any of the planning to take care of him/what happens in the worst case scenario because I wasn’t family and thus had no legal standing to be part of that discussion, despite having a great relationship with him for the last 5 years. Sad reason to get married? Yes? But he’s a great person and I hated being excluded for such a still reason.

      • Not to be a downer or discount your last reason at all because it is very valid, just a word of caution. My dad is the oldest of 5 brothers and has been with my mom for just over 35 years. This means she met the youngest brother when he was 10. She still isn’t involved in a lot of the family planning on that side because my uncles think “they know better for their parents” and “if she wants to be involved my wife should be too.” It’s really sad for my mom to be excluded from this because she cares so deeply for my grandparents. Of course my dad fights for her to be involved and it is clear that whatever his opinion is, it has been long discussed with my mother. Families don’t stop being messed up or political even when you’re married, unfortunately.

    • Health insurance.

    • I would ideally be married for at least a couple of years before having children. So, if I were in your position, I would be getting hitched sooner rather than later. Just a thought, I have no idea how you feel about that. Also, I don’t want a fancy wedding so I don’t have to worry about saving/planning for an extensive period of time.

    • Forgive me for being totally girly :

      As a thread-jack to the “knowing when to get married” question —

      A few of you said you knew it was coming…how did you know?

      I ask out of total self-interest, as I’ve seen some recent clues. I’m a control freak who is trying not to over analyze things and I really don’t want to bring this up with my friends in real life at the risk of having to deal with them going on ‘ring watch’.

    • getting married soon :

      We knew we wanted to get married for a long time. However, we started dating very young and weren’t going to get married while I was in school. We picked a date after two out of our four parents were diagnosed with cancer. I consulted an oncologist, who advised on timing. We wanted the earliest time they’d both be done with treatment and up for a party, so that the cancer wouldn’t have time to come back before our wedding.

    • Anne Shirley :

      I’ve decided to get married next Christmas. I just need a man to fall in line with this plan.

    • SugarMagnolia :

      I am always second guessing my decisions. That usually includes my choice of partners. I broke off 2 other long term relationships that were just not right. I didn’t feel that way about my boyfriend of 7 years, but we weren’t engaged, and while I knew he wanted to get married “one day” I never pushed.

      One evening at home, I came upon a journal entry I wrote about 2 years before I met my husband. It identified a list of things I wanted in a partner. As I read the list, I got teary eyed when I realized that I could check off every single one of those items with my SO.

      When he came home that night (we were living together) I showed him the list and told him very simply, “I think we need to just stop goofing around and make this official.” He agreed and proposed about 2 months later.

      We have been married for almost 2 years, and I am very happy with my decision.

    • I met DH in October after finishing law school, started dating late January, got engaged in April, married in July. Haven’t looked back. I had been in several long term relationships and had a good idea of what didn’t work for me, and knew right away that he was everything that those relationships weren’t (if that makes sense).

      Timing for us was a combination of pragmatic reasons and personal belief ones. Religious beliefs kept us from living together before we married, and we just wanted to be together. Also the whole legal and religious union was really important to us. And my apartment lease was up that summer and I didn’t want to sign another year. And we had no reason to wait. We were sure, and a simple wedding did the trick.

  17. Smackdown :

    Best smackdown letter I’ve read in a while. Go Mayor Menino!

    My favorite part:

    “In recent days you said Chick-fil-A opposes same-sex marriage and said the generation that supports it has an ‘arrogant attitude.’
    Now — incredibly — your company says you are backing out of the same-sex marriage debate. I urge you to back out of your plans to locate in Boston.”

    • I loved that letter so much I wanted to gay marry it.

      • Doesn’t anyone think that might be slightly unconstitutional?

        • how would it be unconstitutional? I am not sure this letter would have the force of law, would it? I can see how if the city passed a law prohibiting a company from building there, and people knew that it was because of the company’s previous speech, but isn’t it possible for this letter to more be considered a public statement, which would also be protected speech?

          and, b23, even though I know we disagree on some things, I truly intend no snark. I really am just wondering out loud, cuz I do think our question is an interesting one. I am looking forward to seeing other, more lawyerly & knowledgeable, responses.

          • He’s the mayor. He’s saying there’s “no place” for Chick Fil A in Boston based solely on the CEO’s opinion. Now, there could be an argument that he hasn’t actually done anything to stop them from coming yet, but I think intimidation is probably enough.

            What if someone had said the exact same thing about someone from another religion, such as a Jewish person? It’s viewpoint discrimination, plain and simple.

          • hmm, yeah, i guess i can see if you can argue some kind of intimidation thing. But it just seems to me like a letter is just not binding enough to be considered unconstitutional. I think if I saw a mayor issue a letter about something I disagreed with, I wouldn’t be happy about it, and I’d probably want him to not get reelected, but I’m not sure I would feel the same way about a letter, as if it actually carried the force of law. But, it’s very possible I’m biased since I agree with this one. ;o)

            I never studied law, but I work in public policy, so i kind of wish i had studied Constitutional Law at some point, cause i think it’s pretty interesting…..

          • I believe in religious liberty, and I don’t think a company should be publicly chastised by a high-ranking government official who has the power to issue licenses, permits, etc., solely based on their viewpoints.

          • It’s on the City of Boston’s letterhead, by the way. He’s not speaking as a private citizen. He is speaking as the mayor for the city.

          • Sorry for the multiple posts, but I feel strongly about this. :)

            A better analogy would be if the mayor of some southern city spoke out saying there is no place for a specific pro-gay marriage institution in his city.

            I just don’t think it matters whether you believe in gay marriage or not. What matters is that people have the right to say what they want, either way.

          • ok, i will shut up and stop being all over this post today, and i am turning this over in my head so i have a lot of different thoughts, but i won’t say them all. But I do think some of your points are compelling, I guess I just don’t know enough.

            And your last point about the letterhead, I totally had that thought, too, and I totally am curious whether acting as a public figure would have an effect on his right to speech, vs. CEO dude’s right to speech. It is actually an interesting question. But then, in my opinion, speech that is protecting a class from discrimination (the mayor’s) is more morally supportable than the opposite, so in my personal opinion I don’t think it should violate anything.

            But then, again, I keep thinking that I feel differently about a letter than a mayor using the power of law to actually stop something. And that if he passed some law that prevented [the company] from doing business, i could see that being seen as over the line and being challenged in court, but a letter is just a letter.

            But you are probably right, if someone wrote a letter like this that i disagreed with, i might be pretty angry…… Oh, America, its so full of things like this to disagree about!!! ;o)

        • Why would it be unconstitutional? It’s just his opinion. He is not issuing an edict to prevent them from opening a shop in Boston.

          • He’s definitely setting himself up for an uphill legal battle should the city actually deny a permit. As a (now former) municipal lawyer, this is exactly the kind of letter that I would HATE to see my client write.

        • Maybe I’m dense, but I really thought b23 meant it would be unconstitutional for mamabear to gay marry the letter… (as a joke, obviously, but I suppose it raises an interesting legal question).

          • OMG, did i totally miss a JOKE!?!? I am so dumb. ;o)
            if it was a joke, b23, then it is a durn good one! heehee

          • Oh, that would be a funny joke, but no . . . I was talking about the mayor’s letter. :)

          • hee

          • Sorry to convert your serious issue into a joke. But, you know, had you meant it that way, it would have been funny :-)

        • I hate that letter. Im so for gay marriage. Im so against the mayor speaking for the whole state and threatening a business. Can you IMAGINE if the letter told a gay owner of a company that he wasn’t welcome and should seriously reconsider relocating there.

          Chick fil a is allowed to support whatever causes it wants to with its money. People are free to protest the sh*t out of (I will, i haven’t eaten there for years since I first found out) But the mayor saying I don’t agree with you don’t come here, is frightening to me.

          • hmm, so is it different if the opinion of the mayor is actually shared by a majority of the citizens in his city, then if it’s not? … i mean, would people feel differently in that case? (honest question)

          • Amen! :)

            No, it’s not different. The First Amendment protects everyone. It was designed to protect the minority view in particular, but it cannot be applied differently based on whether the opinion is a popular one. That’s where we get in serious trouble.

            I love debating this issue. I wish we were in person.

          • I love debating this issue, too!! ;o) I was hoping I wasn’t annoying you, b23, bc i actually find debates like this really interesting, i wish we were in person, too. And even tho we are disagreeing, i think you are super neato. But i really have to get out of the office now. bye!

          • ack! dont know why i keep being moderated, but i am loving this debate, and i wish we could talk in person, too, but now i really have to go home. :o)

          • But the mayor doesn’t give up his 1st amendment rights by becoming mayor. You can disagree and not vote for him, or call his office, or start a petition, but the constitution has very little to do with it. In theory, you could argue that an elected official making such a statement has a chilling effect on anti gay views (i.e., speech), but that would go beyond what the first amendment is intended to protect. Chilling effect analysis applies to laws and policies; not to personal statements.

            Our own mayor here in NYC has been talking about gun control all week and before that about the obesity epidemic but that’s his right as mayor. You can debate the merits of making this into a public debate issue but the constitution has nothing to do with it. Everyone is entitled to say how they feel – chick fillet and the mayor of Boston.

          • Gun control goes directly to his job and platform. Yes, government officials are allowed to speak out on issues. Definitely. But they aren’t allowed to punish others for disagreeing with them. Here, he is speaking out against a specific company. If he wanted to say he’s for gay marriage, that’s one thing; to say Chick Fil A has no place in Boston is a totally different thing.

            And if he wanted to do it the right way, there’d be a bit more of an argument if he hadn’t done it on official stationery.

        • Anne Shirley :


          • Anne Shirley :

            And I’m not sure where you get the idea that fighting for the rights of his citizens isn’t related to his job. That’s what I elect politicians to do. Mayor Bloomberg is fond of telling soda companies their big-ass drinks have no place in his city. My hometown mayor told PLanned Parenthood to get out of town. I don’t see any constitutional argument against elected officials exercising their free speech rights whatsoever. At all.

          • That’s the thing he is not fighting for people’s rights. If chick fil a banned gay patrons or treated them differently, that is different. That is discrimination.

            Im not saying it is unconditional I just think we have become a witch hunt society. Do you the president of chick fil a didn’t even say he was against gay marraige in that interview? He said he supported a traditional family. Obviously, people interpreted that correctly based on his past statements, but he was expressing a religious view he has. I believe that view is wrong,BUT HE IS ALLOWED TO BELIEVE GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG. he just is!

          • Stealth Mode :

            @cfm. Of course hes allowed to be against gay marriage. But I still don’t see any argument whatsoever that the letter is unconstitutional. Im actually not a fan of menino generally or the letter in particular, but the question was is this unconstitutional. And there’s just no way it is.

          • Anne Shirley :

            Sorry that was me.

      • {Like} x2

      • hahaha!! me too :-)

  18. 2/3 attorney :

    Does anyone have this and love it? It’s on sale at 100 now, minus 30%, seems like it’ be dumb not to buy it. I am thinking commuting? And in navy, would go with almost anything… anyone have first-hand experience?

  19. For anyone interested, Poll #2 on your views on Ellen is now up. I know I promised I wouldn’t do a plug every time…so let’s say instead I am just doing a plug BOTH times.


    • Did you notice the snafu with Ellen’s post this morning on the second page. How odd!

      • omg, i am normally not a member of the ellen-tracking-camp, but i just had a thought: how FUNNY would it have been if the poster had accidentally left another handle in the field instead of leaving it anonymous, and had accidentally outed themselves as another regular poster!?!?!? omg, I kind of wish that WOULD HAPPEN!

  20. I would totally snap those shoes up if they were under, oh, $50, maybe even $75. Someone needs to find a knockoff.

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