Tuesday’s TPS Report: Dear Cashmere Sweater

Acne Studios Dear Cashmere Grey Melange | CorporetteOur daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This week of TPS reports comes to you from Stephanie Rahlfs of Adventures in the Stiletto Jungle, who also shared a week of her picks back in 2011. Welcome back, Stephanie!

Remember yesterday, when I lamented about how most of my favorite minimalist fashion labels fail in the workwear category? There are a few exceptions to this general observation, particularly over in the knitwear section at Acne Studios. This Stockholm-based label has more than its fair share of super conceptual pieces, but they also have some amazing luxury basics that boast just enough designer detail to make them interesting.

This luxe, yet artistically constructed, grey mélange cashmere sweater would look gorgeous and chic with a black pencil skirt. It’s available in grey mélange and black for $690.00 at Acne Studios. Acne Studios Dear Cashmere Sweater

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]

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Comments

  1. Has anyone ever done custom shoes from Milk and Honey or Shoes of Prey? (or other sites I don’t know of) How was the quality? Were returns easy?

  2. This looks like a sweatshirt I could get at Target for $20

  3. Well after perusing the acne website, I’m not a fan at all. Shapeless, boring, and god I hate the name. oh, and just a little pricy for dresses that look like extra large t-shirts.

  4. SAlit-a-gator :

    This sweater is hideous. The sleeves don’t even fit the model. And it’s summer. Why are we showing dark winter sweaters as picks for July 1st? How is this relevant? Sorry to call you out Stephanie, but this blog is not really about super conceptual looks. It’s about practical looks we can actually wear to work. This is not one of them.

    • Hear, hear. I gave yesterday’s look a pass (it had some merit), but this is just bad.

    • I like the sweater! Some times it’s good to have a baggy look. It is kind of like a “boyfreind shirt” but onley a sweater. The onley thing I cant get my HEAD around is the name of the place that sells it — ACNE Studio’s? All I can think about is being 15 and haveing PIMPELS! FOOEY! Or the guy Fred in College that hung around my dorm room, campeing out to see if I would date him! OMG, what memorie’s? Here is their websight:

      http://www.acnestudios.com/shop/women/knits/dear-cashmere-grey-melange.html

      But I do like the stuff that Stefanie p’osts, so I will show Rosa and the manageing partner. Mabye the manageing partner’s brother would consider buying this for me. If not, I will have to live without it. Yay!!!

      • I agree with Ellen. I’m sure there is something behind the name, but I can’t figure out why a clothing brand would be called Acne.

        • Apparently Acne, pronounced ACK-nay, stands for Ambition to Create Novel Expressions. Still a bad name.

        • If I recall correctly it’s an acronym (and the company is Swedish). I do love the luxe look of the knit itself, but would prefer either a true turtleneck or a deeper v-neck, and if the sleeves are that slouchy on a tall model, I’m sure they’d look like leg warmers on me!

    • Exactly – I cannot fathom in what office setting this would be construed as appropriate. Not attractive in the least.

    • I think that the criticism is unwarranted. Fashion seasons are released months in advance, so it’s no surprise to see fall clothing featured by a fashion blogger. And it’s a guest post during a guest week; what’s wrong with experiencing a different point of view? Plus, not everyone works in a corporate office; it might be refreshing for those readers to see something work appropriate but not Ann Taylorly. I appreciate having the exposure to something new. And, honestly, there are frequently looks posted here in the normal course of things that many of us ding as not “office appropriate” in our offices; that’s not a phenomenon unique to this guest poster.

      • Anne Shirley :

        I agree. This look would be acceptable in many offices, and it isn’t a cobalt blue jersey dress. I think it’s fun to get a different perspective for a week.

      • anon-oh-no :

        i agree with you. its a luxe cashmare sweater in a basic color with some interesting, high fashion details. i’d wear this in the fall or winter on a casual day with black or navy wide leg slacks and high heels (need height to balance). might even belt it depending on how thick the fabric is.

        what is fugly though are those belk shoes linked above. so, to each her own.

      • I’m enjoying the guest posts as well, and I like getting Stephanie’s architectural perspective. The skirt yesterday was lovely in a fresh way. I didn’t like it paired with the top. That being said, I’m going to call something out if I actively don’t like it. The guest posters are fashion bloggers- they can take a criticism of a pick. I think this sweater is unflattering and boring, and I’m allowed to say it. It’s not an attack on the poster, just my reaction.

  5. Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

    I posted last week asking for advice on a haircut for my very straight, fine (yet thick) hair. Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. I now have a variation of an asymmetric bob just below the chin with a few layers, ends cut into. It’s a good start. My hairdresser actually wanted it much shorter!

    I’m pretty happy with the change. Now the challenge is figuring out how to blow dry it appropriately and not weigh it down with the wrong conditioners/products etc.

    What brush do you folks with similar hair recommend to use with blow drying? My hairdresser actually used a fairly large paddle brush. I don’t have any brushes like that, as I worried they would create static and flatten the hair. But maybe I need to get one…. What do you use?

    • Anonymous :

      I have similar hair and use a paddle brush with plastic or rubber or silicone (not sure) bristles and a wide-toothed comb. I don’t find brushing throughout the day to be very beneficial or necessary since my hair is pretty slippery. I use a comb to put things back in place now and then.

      • Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

        Thanks for this! I was most worried about the static issue, so wasn’t sure which type of bristles was right if I chose a paddle brush. And you can find brushes that cost $3 to $200.

        I think the Aveda wooden paddle brush at Nordstroms is similar to what my hairdresser used, but it doesn’t even say what the bristles are?

        And if anyone has any pointers on blow drying their fine-haired bob, I would appreciate hearing them. He told me I had to blow dry it until it is totally dry. I am certainly a blow drying novice with a brush.

    • I use a boars hair round brush and prefer my ends to curl slightly. I haven’t noticed an excessive amount of static, however, when I use a paddle brush. Drying your hair in sections will help with the volume. Ask your stylist for pointers.

      • Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

        Thanks mascot!

        I thought he would use a round brush and was so surprised when he used a paddle brush.

        I actually asked him about boars hair when he pulled out his paddle brush, but he said that wasn’t necessary. But then didn’t give me anymore pointers about brushes. Do you feel the boars hair is better? Why?

        He was quite busy juggling clients unfortunately, and I felt like I was annoying him with too many questions. So thank you friends for filling in the gaps!

        • I’ve read that the boar bristles do a better job distributing your natural oils throughout your hair. I’m not sure I buy all of that, but my hair is shiny and in good condition. Also, the round brush was a size and price I liked, so there wasn’t a whole lot of science going on here.

    • One key to remember is that since you have a lot less hair now, you should use a lot less shampoo/conditioner. Especially conditioner – using too much on my fine hair results in feeling greasy by the end of the day. I’ve found that using a small pump bottle instead of just pouring it into my hand helps me use smaller amounts – I use one pump at a time and work it in, then add another if needed. Also helps make my products last much longer since I’m not wasting so much.
      For blowdrying pointers – consider using clips to hold back the wet sections. Hairdressers can manage without them, but they are pros. For novices like me that don’t have octopus hands, clips are key. To make it go faster, I first dry most of my hair using just my fingers and only break out the brush once its gone to mostly damp instead of wet.

      • Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

        This is excellent styling advice Meg. Thank you so much.

        You are so right – I have to be careful about not using too much shampoo/conditioner. My hair tends towards a little greasy already. This takes some getting used to. I may also need to choose a different kind of shampoo/conditioner.

        My hairdresser said no gel/mousse/hairspray. Just a touch of something before blow drying to tame the wire-y greys near my scalp a little and prevent a static mess. He told me just to use a touch of any of my body lotions?!?!

    • My sister has similar hair and swears by a boars hair paddle brush…. like it was a life changing suggestion from her stylist. I don’t think she went with a crazy high end one, but pricey enough to not be junk and it seems to be holding up well.

      • Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

        Thanks for mentioning this. I have also seen brushes with a mix of boars hair and a synthetic and wasn’t sure if that was also a useful thing or just a way of making the brush less expensive.

    • I have crazy fine hair, didn’t even use a brush for years because they would give me terrible static, and am now obsessed with the Drybar Half-Pint small round brush for blow-drying. And if you order it from Sephora, you can always take it back if it doesn’t work for you.

    • My hair is similar to your description. I use either a paddle brush with rubber/silicon tipped edges or a boar bristle round brush, depending on the look I want that day. My current products are Kevin Murphy anti-gravity, No 4. Super Comb and Protect (only two sprays for my whole head), and a little Kevin Murphy un.dressed on the ends. I blow dry my hair with my fingers until it’s 80% dry, then I use a brush. I wash every other day – dry shampoo and an updo on the off days.

      • Thanks to my fine haired friends! :

        Thank you for sharing your routine. Very helpful.

        Is there a dry shampoo you prefer, that doesn’t weigh your hair down more AND doesn’t cause a lot of static?

    • Medic Maggie :

      I have your hair. And style/cut. Mine is naturally wavy/curly, so I can let it air dry with product and get some pretty decent curls, but when I blow it dry, it is smooth & straight.

      As for daily smooth-bob look, here’s my repertoire: I have been rotating shampoos but have had great success with Organix coconut milk, sea minerals, and kukui oil lines. I wash & condition daily. I use an old t-shirt to wrap my hair instead of a towel (trick from the curly haired folk). I don’t even squeeze water out with a towel, instead, I will comb my soaking-wet hair at my hairline near my forehead just to break up the tangles; then flip it over and comb everything upside-down. Then wrap in t-shirt. Sometimes I will use a tiny drop of Shea Moisture curl & style milk just on the ends (always when I air-dry for curls, sometimes even for blow-drying and ironing). I use a wide-tooth pick-style comb for detangling.

      I leave it in the t-shirt till I’m mostly ready. I flip my hair back normal upright, and then comb just to get it to lay right where my part is. I blow-dry with my fingers (dryer always aimed down or back, never up) to get it 100% dry. I rarely use a brush anymore with the dryer, I find that it makes it more frizzy. But, when I do need it, I have a Kareco Small thermal round brush. Then, I just use a straight-iron to smooth the ends & impart a bit of a curl under.

      I will sometimes use a bit of Moroccan oil just on the ends while it is still soaking wet if it is particularly dry outside (tends to help with static) or particularly humid (helps keep the ends laying the right way).

      But, I have your hair, and your cut, and this is what works for me.

    • Lorelai Gilmore :

      I use this: http://conair.com/tourmaline-ceramic-medium-nylon-brush-p-977-1_124_128.html

      I also have found that it is key to use sulfate-free hair products. I vary my products depending on whatever, but sulfate-free makes a big difference.

    • I also have fine thick hair and a shortish bob, and I use a conair ceramic round brush. My hair curls under and stays bouncy all day.

  6. Honestly, I love the sweater, especially as styled. Ok, so I wouldn’t wear it in July, but sometimes I want to (my office temp is basically at 62 all summer).

    I might not pay $5000 for a wool minimalist skirt/top combo and I wouldn’t pay $700 for a cashmere sweater right now, but for good fabric/wool knits I’d pay more than what you get for $20 at target and no, the target sweater might photograph like this on the internets but it won’t wear like this in real life.

  7. This sweater would only look good on women with swan necks (think Nicole Kidman) and no b##bs. Basically anyone other than me!

  8. A household employee (let’s say a nanny), placed by an agency, has likely embezzled several thousand dollars from us, for over last couple months. The agency will be replacing him immediately and knows the details of what we’ve discovered, but they want us to contact the police. The man will likely be fired. My spouse, who works from home during the day, is concerned, based on this person’s comments over the last couple months, that he, or people he associates with, could retaliate. Nothing specific to base this on, per se. If you’ve been in this situation, will the police be able to help us get some comfort here? Additional house visits, etc.?

    • I don’t think the police could do much. A security system may give you peace of mind. By retaliate, do you mean…kill/harm one of you or your children? Or vandalize your house? Because there’s definitely a difference there. I also think that retaliation claims or “you better watch out” are usually false threats, but better to be safe than sorry. I would contact the police so that you can file a proper insurance claim and/or get the money back. And how did he have access to the money or your accounts? I would make things more secure in terms of your wireless internet access and online bank account access.

    • Yes, you should contact the police. If this household employee lives with you, fire him and have him leave the same day. You and your spouse should probably both be home and prepared to call the police if necessary. Change the locks and alarm code (you should give out separate codes to anyone who has access by the way so that you can trace it if there is a breach) and ask the police on the non-emergency line what they recommend in light of your concerns.

      And great idea above re bank accounts and internet wireless access and passwords!

    • I can’t answer your question, but I can tell you that when someone tried to break into our home, it took the police 11 minutes to get to our front door (and we live in the middle of a major city). Just food for thought.

      • Yes, this is a worry I have.

        • If he has made threats against you, you might consider getting a civil harassment restraining order against him. If there is an order in place requiring him to stay away from you and your home, it will be entered into the law enforcement computer and the police are much more likely to respond in a timely manner.

          And since it seems you can afford it, I would retain an attorney to make sure the application for the restraining order is done right and is as persuasive as possible.

    • Need to Improve :

      Are you going to try to get restitution or will the agency make you whole? If the former, then you definitely need to file a report. I would file one anyway. If you have reason to believe he will harm you or your family, you can get a restraining order. Obviously, change all your locks immediately.

    • Anon in NYC :

      Retaliate how? Change your locks and any alarm codes, if that is a concern, and alert your banks/credit card companies. If physical safety/robbery is a concern, yes you should contact the police.

      • Thanks, all. I’m being a little vague, but part of his duties involved making purchases on our behalf, so there were authorized uses of the credit card, but he started making unauthorized purchases this month. My spouse is concerned for his physical safety generally because this person is physically imposing and hangs out with unsavory characters, but there’s a strong feeling of violation that is coming out too. And for various reasons, my spouse has to be at home during the day, in a place that the person knows, while I’m at work.

        • I should add, my spouse knows him better than I do. I’m not sure whether my spouse is reacting appropriately or overreacting as to physical safety concerns because of the sense of violation he feels.

        • The agency may want you to contact the police so that their insurance will cover your loss. Could your spouse work from somewhere other than home for a few weeks? Perhaps a short-term office suite type place, or a spare space at a friends office (easier to explain than having him at your office). Do off-duty police in your town do security work? If the person comes around and finds that a) no-one is home and b) he is met by an off-duty cop who knows who he is and why he might be here, he will probably not come around again.

    • If he was stealing from the company, he can be charged with a crime and you should contact the police. As far as your retaliation concern, the police will not be able to do anything based upon just a general concern without any prior incidents. You could speak to your company though about installing a security system.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      1. Read Gift of Fear.
      2. What is this money worth to you? Are you well off? Will you be okay without it? Would he agree to pay it back? If any of the above, you might consider not reporting to the police just for your own piece of mind.
      3. In a perfect world we would all report crime and bad guys would be swiftly locked up. We do not live in a perfect world. You and your family’s safety comes before any greater societal moral duty. Do whatever will get him out of your life the least painfully (considering both anxiety, safety and money)

      • Thanks. I do need to read Gift of Fear. The money is not important. I don’t think he could pay us back, and I don’t think he’d want to. Thanks. This is really helpful. For the other posters, we have the financial angles covered – new card, credit was clean, not giving access to future employees, bank alerted, and we’ll be changing locks tonight.

        • Please, contact the police.

          What will happen is that if you do not file a report, this person’s record will remain clean and they will be hired by another agency. These home help workers are re-hired all the time, even if their prior agency refuses to give them a reference (which is likely what will simply happen here). Then the new agency will run a background check on this guy before hiring and he will COME OUT CLEAN! So he gets a job, will be placed again with an unsuspecting family, and he will commit this crime again.

          Calling the police and filing a report is the right thing to do. If you fear from this person, take out a restraining order. It is not that hard, and for the vast majority of people this will scare them sh!!less.

          But I understand your discomfort. We have suffered from household “help” taking advantage of my elderly father. Most of the time, it is gentle pressure to get him to give them extra money. This leads to them being fired eventually, but I waited too long to do it and was MUCH too nice about it. I also had some discomfort about repercussions. And honestly, sometimes there is another side to the story….. even though it is clearly not an excuse…. which complicates things.

          But if they had actually committed a blatant crime like in your situation, this it needs to be reported.

          You will be protecting future people. I promise you this.

        • Wildkitten :

          I’d get an alarm system if you don’t have one.

          • Blonde Lawyer :

            I posted this yesterday but we use SimpliSafe. Install yourself (easy), not hard-wired (portable), no contract, and only $14.99/month. We love it.

    • another anon :

      File a police report. If nothing else, it’s a paper trail. It sounds like the termination of employment is handled by the placement company, so you shouldn’t have to deal with any of that.

      Frankly, don’t deal with the individual at all–go only through the placement company.

      As for the threats–it sounds like your gut feeling is spot on. Maybe his threat is wishy-washy, but I would never take any kind of threat like that from an employee lightly. Especially given his unsavory character.

      If there is anything to investigate, the police will do it quietly because of the “intimate” nature of this problem. He was in your home, a personal employee of sorts, yadda yadda. Here’s my experience: We had received some vague inklings from our kids about a former nanny that just didn’t sit quite right. We had done background checks before hiring and everything. There were no physical signs of anything, and we could get no hard, discrete information from our kids (they were 3 and 5 at the time), but it made us uncomfortable anyway. However, we had no reason to believe that anything was going on, as this nanny clearly loved (in a caregiver sort of way) our kids, and they loved her too. We did call the police though, just to see if they could dig any more (they found nothing). One of our friends, an officer, came to the house to talk to my oldest son, and he didn’t seem to think that there was anything to be concerned with. After about a week or two of just communicating back and forth with the investigators (we did have a face-to-face with the lead investigator) and the chief, and following the cues of the kids, we concluded that our concerns were unfounded. She continued to excel in her job, and the kids still light up every time that they see her.

      I know this isn’t entirely related to your issue, but I wanted to illustrate that the police don’t always just go knocking on doors demanding information.

      In any case, I hope you get it sorted out, and I hope you re-establish your peace of mind.

      • +1

        I think a paper trail is important here. I know that the first question that will be asked if something does happen is why didn’t you file a police report? Your story will have much more credibility with all involved if you file a report. Also, theft of several thousand dollars could come with jail time, especially not his first offense.

        Additionally, not to be blase as someone who works in law enforcement, but I have a hard time seeing how a “stop snitching” ethos plays out with presumably middle class people. For worse only, this ethos seems to be confined to target populations in specific situations.

        • another anon :

          +1 again–That’s what the police are there for. Yes, they have more pressing issues to deal with, but any department worth their snuff will take care of the less-urgent needs as well. That’s why they have patrol officers AND investigators.

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          My concern wasn’t her “snitching.” My concern is whether the police can adequately protect her if he really is a threat. My husband is a LEO and I formerly worked in various CJ capacities. A restraining order is a piece of paper that gives law enforcement the right to arrest someone for something they otherwise couldn’t (a phone call, speech, presence.) But, it doesn’t stop that person from doing those things. It only allows consequences if they do them. I am very very pro law enforcement. However, seeing how some things work “on the inside” it has changed how I would respond in a few select scenarios. There is a huge difference between safety and the illusion of safety.

          Your outlook on this may also depend on if you are surrounded by competent LEO or less than competent LEO. I have seen both.

  9. Need to Improve :

    This sweater makes the model look boxy, and I am sure she is not. I don’t think it would flatter a single one of the women who work in my office (myself included) and the price tag seems outrageous for what you are getting. That said, when I read posts like this one and yesterday’s, I cna’t help but think that this stuff must look good on the person who is choosing to post it, and on some group of people who buy it . . . And I would love to see these looks “at work” in a professional environment. I can picture this sweater on a very tall, very skinny woman with tight black pants and ankle boots. Hard to imagine it looking good in the business casual office though.

    • Anne Shirley :

      I think part of the idea of modern fashion looks is pushing back on the idea of “flattering.” So, yes, this sweater may make the model look boxy. But it’s not inappropriate for the office, and why is there so much emphasis on “flattering” instead of “intriguing” or “striking” or “different?” I’m a conservative (boring) dresser who shops primarily at Ann Taylor for v-neck tops in blues and greens, but I can appreciate this look and what it’s trying to do.

      • Ciao, pues :

        This is a really interesting point! Why such an emphasis on flattering (does the word read: “feminine” in addition to professional)? Have we moved from taking our cues from men’s business fashion (like the boxy women’s suits of the 80s) to taking them from the male gaze (seeking slimmer cuts and emphasizing a “womanly” shape)? thanks for bringing this up!

      • This. I think it is flattering. Just because it’s not bodycon does not mean something is not flattering. Agree that certain items on certain people are simply not flattering, e.g. pleated skirts on me, but just because something doesn’t make you look skinnier, or show off your curves doesn’t mean it’s not flattering.

      • Well said. I am a big fan of blogs like Manrepeller (http://www.manrepeller.com/category/style) because even though it doesn’t necessarily reflect how I dress I enjoy seeing women dressing primarily for themselves (or sometimes for other fashion types, but still…). I am actually really looking forward to the rest of this week’s posts because I like the idea of slightly subverting the more generic office fashions.

        A woman who my SO works with dresses very similarly (minimalist, somewhat avant garde with lots of quirky, subtle little touches in cool neutral tones) and I have to say that a) she’s a kick a** lawyer who never looks inappropriate for the occasion, but b) I always love seeing her because I love seeing what she’s wearing. I wish more people got creative while staying within the bounds of professional wear!

        • That makes me think of Tilda Swinton. Sometimes I love how what she is wearing (even though it wouldn’t be flattering on me) and she always either plays a kicka** character or comes across that way on the red carpet.

          • Yes – Love Swinton! Now that you mention it, this woman is also very Swinton-esque.

      • I don’t find this sweater to be “intriguing” or “striking” or “different.” For me, flattering does not have to be tight or body conscious at all but should have some type of flow or structure. For example, I love Calvin Klein runway items for their simplicity and one of my favorite clothing items is a swing jacket. IMO this sweater does not fit into any of your categories. If someone wants to wear an alpaca blanket, power to them but I’ll still think it’s ugly.

    • I think the boxy look is actually really fashionable right now, I think as kind of a push-back to the super body-conscious, bandage-type dresses and things. I think you’ve got to have some panache to pull it off without looking frumpy, but I could see someone wearing it in a business-casual office, with slim black pants and heels, and not looking out of place.

  10. I’m hoping you ladies can give me some advice on managing a newish relationship while maintaining long hours in the office. I’m a mid-level biglaw associate and I’ve been with BF for about 6 months. We’re spending every night together but haven’t moved in together yet. Work has been slow to moderate for the past 6 months, and in fact he’s had to work more nights and weekends than I have. I’ve spent a lot of time warning BF about my sometimes long hours, the unpredictable nature of the job, and the crazy expectations.

    Now things are starting to heat up at work, and BF and I are having a lot of trouble adjusting. Here’s a typical day: 1) During the work day: strings of texts that I respond to when I can, but if I don’t respond more or less immediately he gets pouty; 2) after 5 pm (when he leaves work): even more text volume, more pouting if I don’t respond, followed by phone calls asking for a schedule; 3) I text that I’m leaving work, and he immediately calls asking a million questions about what we’re doing that night, thus preventing me from getting out the door because I don’t get reception on the elevator. Last night I lost it at him and shouted “CAN I PLEASE EFFING LEAVE???”

    I repeatedly tell him I don’t know my schedule, but I will keep him in the loop; I can’t respond to every text because it’s too distracting, but I like to see your texts when I take a break and I promise I will respond when I can; and don’t wait for me to start your evening – take care of your errands, dinner, etc. when you need to and I will join when I can.

    I’m at a loss as to what else I can say. I know it’s hard to be with someone who never knows when they’re coming home, but there’s really nothing I can do about it right now. It’s not fair to me to add stress to an already stressful day and to make me feel guilty about something that’s out of my control. At the same time, I know I need to work on keeping my frustration under control because it’s not OK for me to blow up at him. Any thoughts, advice, or commiseration? TIA.

    • Oof. I think it’s obviously unfair that he’s getting pouty that you’re not immediately responding to texts while working. My husband and I text back and forth all day, but it’s usually when we have the free time to look at the phone and respond. Does he have a type of job that’s similar to yours – where sometimes you can’t leave until a project is done that night? If so, he really should be more understanding.

      Not a lot of advice to offer, but maybe you could make it a point to discuss plans for each night earlier than when you get off work? That way your bf won’t be pestering you after 5 pm. Also, does he have stuff he can do after work each day to keep him occupied until you’re off? And don’t text him that you’re leaving until after you’ve ridden down the elevator. That way he can’t stop you from leaving.

      • I call my husband when I make it to my car because if I call any earlier than that, I can still get pulled into something else and my departure could be postponed.

    • commiseration – my bf is in finance and has lawyer friends and knows what it’s like to have a demanding job. Yet, he still asks me what time I’m coming home for dinner, and wether I’ll be home for dinner which adds a ton of stress. I’ve told him it stresses me it out and to just not plan on me being home for dinner ever, but he still asks, which drives me crazy. I guess I’ve just had to change my attitude re: his questions, which has helped. Best of luck!

      • you ladies seem so ungrateful that you have someone who wants to spend time with you. I was a biglaw lawyer, you can still plan dinner one night a week. Eat, return to the office if you must. Be thankful someone loves you when you flip out on them for wanting to spend time with you.

        No wonder half the posts on this board are about not having a man. When you have one you get stressed they want to spend time with you.

        • I posted below, and I have a wonderful husband who wants to spend time with me, and I want to spend time with him. He never would have become my husband if he acted like OP’s bf.

          • Agreed, Anona. It seems like this couple has different needs regarding how much time they spend together.

        • Anonyhose :

          There’s really a difference between wanting to spend time with you and sheer, outright neediness! Only the OP can decide how much of the latter she can take. My DH is just like that — requires constant contact and communication. Sometimes I can handle it gracefully, sometimes I can’t, but it’s who he is and how he interacts with me.

    • Sounds like you are handling it fairly well and I understand you getting frustrated and blowing up! I like how you told him to start his evening, etc. and you will join when you can. That seems reasonable to me. Perhaps one suggestion would be a standing “date night” where you make true plans that you try your hardest to keep – like meeting for dinner Thursday evenings at 8:30 or something.

    • You lost me at “he gets pouty.” No. He is a grown-up and he can tell you in a grown-up way that he’s frustrated, would like more contact, etc. and give you an opportunity to tell him what you can and cannot give him. A reasonable person would have listened when you explained what your situation is now and been understanding. He is acting like a child.

      • This. My SO is in the final stages of his PhD, which means long hours on campus and unpredictable schedule depending on how results are coming in. When I know he’s in the zone, i don’t call him just to chit-chat, and I don’t send needy or pouty texts. Is it nice to know what the evening’s schedule will be like? Sure – which is why I’ll send a message asking if I should go ahead and eat dinner w/o him. If the answer is yes, then that means it is going to be a solo dinner-and-a-movie-he-wouldn’t-be-interested-in-anyway kind of night. Because I’m a grown-up and I can make my own fun and not pout.

      • This. He is showing that he is needy, clingy and not a grownup. If you acted like that all his guy friends would understand why he broke up with you.

    • DTMFA. This guy sounds awful. Pouty? One adult is getting pouty at another adult over something she can’t change? Repeatedly? No, I would not tolerate this at all.

      A relationship should help you better manage the burdens of your life – not become an additional burden. Someone who adds to your stress is not a good partner, full stop.

      • +1,000 – life can be hard, your partner should add to you not detract from you.

      • Thanks to all for the wonderful comments.

        To be fair to BF, he’s very well-intentioned, I think it just gets a little off track sometimes. For example, I lost my temper (which I shouldn’t have done) yesterday after he asked “What do you want to do for dinner? Do you want to go out? Can I invite Friends A, B, and C? Friend D is at a bar, do you want to meet him there? Do you want me to cook something? Do you want to come to the grocery store with me? Should I get takeout? What are you in the mood for?” I said, I haven’t had red meat in a month, let’s do burgers or something, I don’t care if it’s from McDonald’s, and he continued with the questioning and I got frustrated. At 9:30 when I’ve been working since 5 am, I don’t care what or if I eat, and I certainly don’t want to socialize, and he just wasn’t hearing that. As an olive branch, he picked up steak dinners for us from a nice restaurant. So… his heart’s in the right place, he really is trying, but there definitely are road bumps and I really appreciate the advice everyone is giving.

        • Wildkitten :

          My BF tends to do this – create a lot of options which causes only more stress to me. You should explain that to him as part of your conversations. Since he’s doing this as part of trying to be thoughtful, he should be able to reign in it when you tell him that it is stressful to you, and he can be thoughtful enough to not do it as much.

          • Yes! I feel like I get decision fatigue or something by the end of the day. After making important decisions all day long, I just don’t want to make any more!

        • Were you doing all of the planning/deciding before you got busy at work? One thing my husband has never understood is that making a plan is the last thing I want to do when I’m slammed at work and trying to get out as quickly as I can. It drove me crazy when I would kill myself to get home by 8, and I would find him sitting on the couch asking me what we were going to do for dinner. My commute was only 10 minutes, so I didn’t call on my way out because I knew we would have exactly the same conversation you did while waiting for the elevator. No matter how many times I calmly explained why this bothered me or the steps I took to be more respectful of his time, he wasn’t able to change his behavior.

          Anyway, we had already been together for years when I started at a firm and I decided to stick it out, but for my husband this kind of behavior is symptomatic of his (subconscious) expectation that his wife would take care of social planning/entertainment just like his mommy. Now we have kids and I’m in a different role that has fewer late nights, but the issue comes up in other ways. Obviously, your dude could be totally different, but don’t follow in my footsteps.

        • Brunette Elle Woods :

          It sounds like you’re making excuses for him now. “To be fair to BF, he’s very well-intentioned, I think it just gets a little off track sometimes. ” Stop with the excuses. You’ve been dating for about 6 months. I think this is the point where you discuss where your relationship is going and end it if you two don’t see eye to eye. My suggestion is to have a conversation with him and tell him how you feel. Don’t go back and forth or make excuses when you are clearly annoyed by his behavior. If he can’t understand your job/career now, then he might never understand it.

          Seriously, he gets pouty?? I’m trying to arrange a second date with a resident and he only contacts me once a week and had to work all last weekend. I feel pouty, but I would never let him know and cause him more stress! He thanks me for understanding. That sounds so selfish.

          • AnonInfinity :

            I wonder from the OP if the word “pouty” was maybe in jest a little. Sometimes I will say “I got in trouble for using too many water bottles.” or something similar. I don’t really get “in trouble” by my husband. He doesn’t act toward me as if I could “get in trouble” by him. It’s just a turn of phrase.

            Of course, we all know adults who do get pouty sometimes, and those people are acting like children and should not be entertained. I’m just saying that a lot of people have seized on that word, and maybe it’s not exactly what the OP meant.

    • Anon in NYC :

      My husband gets my job and the long hours, but I do try to do a few things: 1) give him deadlines so he has an expectation of my schedule (“the brief is getting filed on the 20th, so I expect to be much busier until then”), 2) tell him at a reasonable time (say 7:30-8:30pm) whether I will be home for dinner or if he should eat on his own, 3) find ways to spend time with him in a way that is meaningful to both of us (like, love languages stuff – we both like “quality time” so even if I am sitting on the couch next to him and working/ignoring him on a Saturday, it counts).

      But, since you’re in a new relationship, I think you need to calmly sit down with your BF and remind him about your job/hours, and say that it can be frustrating but it’s unfair for him to make you feel guilty about something you can’t change. And ask him what his expectations/feelings are in terms of communication. He’s been used to a certain level of communication and if this is his first dose of what biglaw is like, I think it’s reasonable that there would be some growing pains.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      My husband and I dealt with this. I am not in big law but I still have unpredictable hours. He cooks for us and likes to know when to start dinner. We have established some parameters that work for us that you could adjust to fit your situation.

      I gave myself a drop dead time where if I wasn’t on a filing deadline, stuck helping a partner or otherwise required to have my butt in my seat I would leave work at 7 for dinner. I could work after dinner or whatever. That gave my husband some consistency – if I don’t tell you otherwise, expect me to have left at 7. On the days I decide to leave early I just text “on my way.” Sometimes he calls because if he catches me, we can do something we wouldn’t normally have time to do like meet up at a mini golf place or walking path. Otherwise, he can start dinner or just talk to me when I get home.

      As soon as I know I won’t be out at 7 I send him a text. If I can’t leave by 7 he is free to eat or wait but he can’t bug me for updates. I give him a heads up on nights I think I could be late so he can plan dinners that are easier to re-heat rather than wasting a steak. So for example, I keep an eye on the partners calendars. If I see that 4 motions are due Wednesday I’ll tell my husband there is a good chance Weds will be a late night. I still text when I know it will be or leave at 7 if it won’t be.

      There are times I am just in the middle of something and want to finish. Rather than just saying “I’ll be late” if it isn’t a work emergency I check in with him. I see if he already started dinner and if it would be a big deal for me to finish this and then come home. Usually he says it is fine. Sometimes he says he was hoping we could do (insert activity). In that case, I usually leave. If the finishing something would only take 15 mins to a half hour I just text “running 15 behind.” That is usually enough notice for him to not yet start dinner.

      It is really hard to be waiting on someone with an unpredictable schedule. To the extent you can make it predictable it really helps.

      On the flip side, don’t get mad if you get out early one day and he isn’t available. I realized I can’t leave early to spend time with him without telling him since he now has a routine of stuff he does until I get home and I might come home to an empty house with him out running somewhere. I would get annoyed in my head thinking “i left for you” but it isn’t fair to expect him to sit around all night just waiting on me. Now I give him fair warning if that is what I want to do.

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        I also propose at times going home for dinner and finishing the project remotely or regrouping back at the office after dinner. That is a know your office thing though and acceptable where I am in most circumstances, not all.

      • Getting some sort of system is super helpful. I text as soon as I know if I’m not going to leave at my typical time and give my best guess but say it could change. I always text when I get above ground on the subway. That works out to give him enough time to get dinner started so we eat shortly after I get home.

      • AnonInfinity :

        This is a very helpful system, and I completely agree that OP needs to set something like this up with her boyfriend.

        My husband and I went through the same thing. He’d do what your boyfriend is doing, and it would annoy me, so I’d push back by not responding at all or by not caring if I left later. It was a cycle. Finally, we had a very.serious.talk because I couldn’t deal with it anymore. We decided I would make an effort to be respectful of his schedule and need for certainty, and he would be respectful of my inability to control my schedule sometimes. It also helps that he got a hobby that he does several days a week with friends until about 7:30. So on those days, I don’t feel any pressure to leave until then, and if I’m staying later than that he knows it’s serious and not within my control. We discuss in the morning basically what we have going on, then around 5 or so I’ll text him and let him know if I’m going to be late or whatever. I also always communicate if I’m in a position where I can at all, and that makes him feel more secure that I’m not just being inconsiderate and annoying when I don’t respond. We are not a hugely communicative couple in that way and probably only text 1-2 times per day. We talk on the phone during the day maybe like once a month. Cutting down on all texts/communication during the day could help your problem so there’s not an expectation that you’re going to be in constant contact.

        I also make an effort to go home earlier when I can and start dinner (he does 90% of our cooking), and I think this helps him know that I’m really trying.

        There are days when I’m just exhausted and can’t handle so many decisions. I’m upfront with him on those days, and I’ll say something like, “I had a really busy day and my brain is fried. I don’t want to make any decision other than to say I don’t want to drive across town for dinner” (or whatever the parameter is).

        The biggest thing is that you really really need to talk about this in a way that’s not placing the blame on either of you. I had to realize that my husband and I just like different amounts of certainty and communication, and we had to work out a system where both of us compromised our natural tendencies. Now it’s just a habit for both of us, and it works really well. I will say that if you do have a rational, reasonable talk with him and you try to compromise but he still continues this behavior, you should absolutely break it off. If he’s doing it, despite a conversation and despite your effort to compromise, then he is trying to control you and that is not ok. The fact that you say he seems to be truly trying is a good sign, imo.

    • DC Wonkette :

      Commiseration… and a few thoughts. I think you need to clearly lay out (as it seems like you have) why your schedule is busy and how it affects your ability to be predictable. That being said, perhaps you can both agree that on Wednesday nights you both prioritize getting out of work to do dinner, etc but that he shouldn’t count on you to be around at a predictable time on the other nights. This means you both need to be ok with making separate plans and not seeing each other at times, but neither of you should be putting your evening schedules on hold due to unpredictable schedules. You also may need to unpack whether he needs that level of constant attention and assurance to be happy and secure in the relationship (red flag in my book) as opposed to just adjusting to a new schedule.

    • I’ve been on both ends of this… it might help if you have a default time, say 7pm, that he can sort of plan around in his head, and then you can let him know at 7pm if you will be later (or earlier if you will be earlier). Also, this may be semi-creepy but it also is super helpful, I have an app on my phone that tells me where my husband’s car is, so I can check if he’s left work or not (the app is not for that purpose but it is a convenience feature). It’s made it easier on me so I don’t have to bug him but I can have some sort of idea of if he’s almost home, on his way or definitely still at work.

      • Wildkitten :

        I think that would be really creepy after dating someone for six months, especially if they are someone who might be naturally clingy.

      • hoola hoopa :

        I like the check-in time. My husband has an unpredictable schedule and often works very long days, and this is sort of what we do. We tend to check in around 4:30 to find out if he’s going to be working that evening (or later). Depending on what comes out of that call, we check in again around 7 pm (to find out if he’ll be home for bedtime) or around 9 pm (after I get the kids to bed). At that point, I’ve settled on just knowing whether or not he’ll be home before midnight.

        FWIW, I know married couples for whom the tracking app works really well and saves a lot of status check-ins. My husband and I aren’t particularly interested, for no specific reason, and I definitely wouldn’t do it with this guy because I don’t think this relationship has proven to be forever.

  11. Anon in NYC :

    This sweater wouldn’t look good on me at all, but I can definitely think of at least one woman in my office who could pull it off. I think it’s fine for a business casual office – I can see it styled with a pencil skirt, slim fit pants, or even a longer fuller skirt like yesterday’s TPS report. But I think the very high neckline would be challenging for many women.

  12. When is it no longer obnoxious to have a 2 page resume? I’m trying to cram everything into one page and it just doesn’t fit. Do I really need to pare down? I have no more than 2 bullets (or 3 lines) for each title.

    Job 1- one role (3 years)
    Job 2- two roles (3 years, got a promotion and role was drastically different)
    Job 3- had 2 roles that were very different, then got a promotion for a total of 3 separate roles at this company.
    Education – two degrees so I need 2 lines.

    When I hire out for roles in my department, i have YET to see a one-page resume. But all the resumes I see seem to be coming from windbags with no ability to edit.

    • When is it no longer obnoxious to have a 2 page resume?

      – When pages 2 through end contain your academic publications.

      Maybe it is different for different industries, but for me (in-house counsel, former biglaw), resumes > 1 page do not go over well.

    • Anne Shirley :

      I don’t understand how you can’t fit this on one page. I would find it odd to have 3 jobs and 2 degrees need more than a page. Do you need any description of the first two roles at Job 3? Why? Is every line on your resume telling an employer a new reason why they should hire you?

      • Sorry, accidentally reported.

        I don’t think two page resumes as a rule are obnoxious, but I can’t see how you couldn’t fit three jobs and two degrees on one page.

      • Philanthropy Girl :

        Agree – I just updated my resume, which includes two degrees, certifications and four applicable positions. It all fits one page. References are the only thing that are on my second page.

        Perhaps some reformatting is in order?

    • If you’ve had multiple jobs and did multiple things in each job, I don’t see how it could all be squeezed onto one page. My resume is two pages and I’ve been working for about 10 years and had maybe four or five different positions where I did a few different tasks that need to be mentioned as a bullet point each. I think the one-page rule is for people who don’t have relevant experience, so they aren’t tempted to put irrelevant past jobs like the time that they worked in the dining hall in college.

    • Ciao, pues :

      What field are you in? I think convention varies.

      • Yes depends on field. I am in IT and a recruiter told me that I should definitely not be trying to fit it all on one page.

        • I’m on the business side of a software firm. I have hired a bunch of people in my role and i’d say 95% of the resumes that come across my desk are 2 pages–some THREE! Dude(or Lady), you are Just Not That Important! I hate them and vastly prefer the one-pagers. I’m trying to decide if my compulsion to keep my resume to one page is limiting :)

          I’m firmly in camp “fit it on one page” but trying to see the other side as I revamp my resume just in case!

    • West Coast :

      Keep it to one page. A resume should not be a summary of everything you have done and your responsibilities at each job. It should highlight 2-4 of you biggest accomplishments at each company. List only your final job with each company in the title of that section, and then mention the other jobs you held in the scoping statement below, followed by the accomplishment bullets. The more you add (including a 2nd page), the less visible your most stellar accomplishments will be.

    • Flying Squirrel :

      Your field and degree matters a lot. In my tech field (mostly PhDs even in industry for jobs like mine), a 1 page resume would look thin. We don’t do CVs, but most resumes I see are 2 pages (as is mine).

    • Resumes are not laundry lists. If you’ve been working 10+ years…maybe. But otherwise, I question your abilities to use Word, _highlight_, and be succinct. One page. That’s all you need. Some things, even if you are really proud of them, need to be left off your resume.

      If you are in an industry where your accomplishments should be listed (in law, the equivalent would be a deal sheet or a case list, or in academia, lists of publications), then that can be a separate document.

  13. Luggage recs? :

    Looking for recommendations for a new suitcase to use for a 3 week trip (as checked baggage – I’m good, but I’m not that good). Preferably something lightweight (I’m 5’2), 4 wheels, not a hardshell, bonus points for a color that’s not black or red. I’m hoping to stay under $350 for a good, durable bag that I can use a few times a year. Any tips for checked baggage on European airlines, or luggage on cobblestones, is very welcome.

  14. Ladies, I have to play in a golf tournament. Leaving aside my lack of golf skills, I have no golf clothes and everything appears to be hideous. Anyone who golfs that can recommend some place I could pick up at least a non-dowdy skirt (skort)? My tennis skirts and casual shorts are too short.

    Also, I do actually like golf and am trying to learn…for how long can I get away without buying golf shoes? I can’t tell how much they help/matter.

    • If you have a Marshalls nearby, try there. It tends to have a fairly wide selection of active/sportswear, including tennis and golf.

    • Maddie Ross :

      I personally like Nike golf apparel – it’s flattering and less “dowdy”. I also am not sure how short your regular casual shorts are, but I would (and do) wear 5 inch inseam shorts on the golf course without problem. They do not have to be knee length. I’ve also worn black workout “skorts” with golf shirts — think the kind you can get at target (C9 brand).

      Golf shoes are two-fold in purpose in my mind – they don’t tear up greens and can add a bit of traction to your swing, but they also keep the grass clippings off your normal shoes. If you don’t golf, don’t get t hem. if you think you’ll be playing more than couple times a year, I think they’re worth it. They last forever (I’ve had mine for like 6 years).

      • This is really helpful, thanks! My regular shorts tend to be 3-inch inseam, so they’re not really great for any work event.

        Did you grow up golfing? I’m having trouble finding other beginners to play with, which is holding me back from making much progress. I’d be interested in hearing how other people who didn’t grow up with the game learned to play.

        • Medic Maggie :

          Check out your local public course. We have a public course operated by our parks & rec department and they offer a 6-week Women’s Intro to Golf class. There were 3 of us taking it, so it was basically private lessons.

        • Maddie Ross :

          I did grow up golfing (learned at age 7), but I took several years off completely from playing while I was in college. When I got to law school, I started again. That said, my husband didn’t learn until law school. I don’t think it’s hard to learn at our age (I’m assuming you’re mid-30s like me from what you’ve said in the past). While I know the etiquette from growing up doing it, unless you really played seriously in high school or college it’s hard to really be that much further ahead from adult beginners. There are some great women’s golf programs out there that cater to our age. And some that cater specifically to professional women with tough schedules. I’d also suggest you talk to your girlfriends or co-workers. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts there are a couple that play occasionally that would be happy to go out with you.

      • My club’s rule is that ladies’ shorts can’t be more than 5 inches above the knee. (ga- Not metro ATL). The D***s in Buckhead usually has a good selection of clothes. Also sometimes TJMaxx and the like. For lessons, have you looked at some of the public courses or driving ranges? There may also be groupon deals for a few lessons.

        • I’ve taken a few lessons, but the problem is actually getting out and playing, you know? I feel like I learn a lot in the lessons, but I need to actually put it into practice, and everyone I know is really good.

    • I think Lily Pulitzer is made for situations like this. I don’t normally wear their clothing, but I have a thick white cotton lined skirt and bright polo from there that is perfect for golf tournaments and such outings.

      • Hm, I looooove Lilly, but the only skorts I’m finding look REALLY short (like, as short as my tennis skirts) and I’m not particularly tall. They are super-cute, though…

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      I’m new to golf. I found some emergency golf clothes at Kohl’s. They are still not my usual style but they aren’t hideous. I found slim fit khaki capris. I think they had bermuda shorts and regular khakis too. The best part was they had slim fit bright colored polo shirts that were actually flattering. They were thicker material so more structured and they were not long or baggy. Again, still not my usual attire but I can at least feel comfortable with myself in them.

      I also have a pair of plaid golf shorts that I love from Olympia. They are Fox brand and a bit more low rise than would normally be appropriate but I just wear a polo that won’t ride up over it.

      Know your course before wearing any shorts though. Some don’t allow them. Keep in mind the event too. If it is a work tournament and you are in a conservative profession shorts might not be okay.

    • The last time I checked the Athleta tall section they had tall skorts, if length is a concern.

      • Wildkitten :

        I am tall and purchased an athleta skort and was delighted at how long and flattering it was, and I didn’t even get it in long, so a skort in long would probably be perfect.

      • Medic Maggie :

        +2 to their skorts. I’m petite, with long legs, and got the regular-length Whatever skort and it hits just above mid-knee when standing. I wear it all the time on weekends

    • Dick’s Sporting Goods usually has some basic women’s golf apparel. Nike is my preference. Fewer hideous patterns.

    • My comment is in moderation because my suggestion is to go to the national sporting goods retailer located across the street from Phipps Plaza, the proper name of which is also a nickname for a part of the male anatomy. That store usually has a selection of basic women’s golf apparel. Nike is my preference — fewer hideous patterns.

    • I don’t play golf, but a skort like the ones from Athleta may work for golf.

    • DC Association :

      Try TJ Maxx/Marshall’s. I got a bunch of Callaway golf skorts there recently and they are about 1-2″ above my knee (OK, I’m only 5’3″). You can sometimes find golf shoes at DSW. That’s where i got mine.

      As for lessons, I second a public course. They often have group lessons and often have women-only. Check out the site www dot getgolfready dot com for some lessons (this site helps you find lessons anywhere in the country, perfect for people who’ve played before but aren’t “good” or haven’t played in a while, etc)! It is true, the trick is GOING to play. Even if you can get to the driving range once a week or so, it helps.

      • I’ve actually done the get golf ready class…the problem is that after the class, I didn’t have anyone to go to the range with or play with (everyone in my class was, literally, 20-30 years older than me and came with a spouse or friend). It’s easy to find lessons, but harder to find people to play with if you’re a beginner.

    • I prefer to golf in capris. Problem solved.

    • Philanthropy Girl :

      What about hitting up your course’s pro shop? Ours carries a very nice selection of items, mostly Nike, and will ensure you fit course dress code.

      I’ve been debating for over a year if I need to take some lessons. I’m often asked to play in outings, and my organization hosts an outing that I should be more visible in. But even putt-putt is my nemesis. And golf is one of those sports outside my financial capabilities.

    • A lot of work related golf tournaments seem to be held at high end clubs, at least in my field, finance. Just be sure to double check the club’s dress code. Some of them are very strict and if you are with clients, you want to ‘conform’.

      I have stuff from Golf Town (is that only in Canada ?) not cheap but not dowdy and I have 2 mix and match skorts and golf shirts, covers all possibilities. Good luck

  15. I’m an intern at a small mostly-male office a have a dress code question. If the men either wear a button down shirt with dress pants on more formal day and polos on more casual days, is it alright for me to wear dress pants and a nice blouse (sometimes with a cardigan or jacket, office is cold)? I don’t like button downs because I’m busty and they don’tfit

  16. Is anyone else seeing advertisements from mormon.org at the bottom of the screen?

    • Anne Shirley :

      All the time. Today, Mormon.com is offering to help me strengthen my family ties. Pretty sure converting wouldn’t help that!

    • I do not see it. But I’ve been following the current situation about the excommunication of two prominent members, and I have to say it is quite interesting to me. Not trying to stir the pot too much, but I’m sure we have some Mormon women who read this blog, and I’d be interested to learn what they think about Ordain Women (and John Dehlin if you have thoughts). I ask only in a respectful way and not in a way to start any kind of flame war.

      • Going to Heck :

        I left the LDS/Mormon church recently (within the last few years) because of the church’s stance on gender and sexuality. I live in Utah and most of my friends and all of my family are Mormon.

        My perspective is that most women in the church have strong feelings about the Ordain Women movement – many of them are angry because of how little institutional autonomy and authority women hold within the church, while others are angry because they feel that the push for female ordination is disrespectful to the male leadership and to their own personal experiences as valued individuals within the church. On my Facebook feed the two perspectives appear equally, but as I have naturally tended to befriend others like myself (childless, feminist, politically liberal, pursuing graduate degrees) I imagine within the church as a whole (especially those women who attend the church every week) more people vehemently oppose the Ordain Women movement than support it.

        Personally, I am saddened by the excommunication of Kate Kelly, the Ordain Women leader. If she does believe in Mormonism, as she says, it must be incredibly painful for her that the male leadership has unilaterally severed all the formal covenants she has made to God (not only is she no longer a member of the church, but according to Mormon doctrine she no longer is able to be with her husband and children in Heaven unless she goes through a very extensive repentance process). Even if she does not truly believe in the church, her excommunication signals that some types of people, some questions, and some viewpoints are not welcome among Mormons. Many members of the church have lauded this message as strengthening the faith. I see it as ugly and exclusionary, but this is probably in no small part because it signals to me that I am not wanted or welcome because of my support for gender equality and marriage equality (and as I have, indeed, voluntarily left the church, I can’t let myself get too offended over that perceived message).

        For whatever reason, John Dehlin has not been as controversial. Personally I admire John and would not have stayed a member of the church for as long as I did without the resources he has made available at staylds.com, but I think his disciplinary process has been somewhat less culturally important to Mormons than Kate Kelly’s excommunication.

        • Thank you for this thoughtful response. I agree completely, especially with your sadness about Kate Kelly’s excommunication. I’m not sure if you listen to the Mormon Expressions podcast, but one of the regular contributors (a woman) had some very moving things to say about the excommunication and what it signaled to her. Her thoughts were similar to yours, and she even said that it signals to her that the church hates women.

          I have been dying to talk about this with someone other than my husband (we’ve had several long converastions about it). He was raised in the church and has been in the process of leaving for the last 2-3 years. His whole immediate family are members, but I don’t feel like I can really ask their thoughts without starting A Big Conversation.

  17. AnonInfinity :

    I wasn’t here last week, but I’m seeing the edit countdown. Love that new feature!

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