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Paging Emily Posts of this board
Etiquette dilemma: I am going to a cross-country wedding for a couple I am friends with (think, we live in Seattle and they live in Tampa), who recently relocated to their new hometown. When I saw the bride at her shower, she talked to me about having a plus-one, and we got the save the dates and I didn’t see anything to the contrary – they were electronic, so no address line.
Based on this, I had my date go ahead and book a flight just last week. While talking with the bride this weekend, though, she said the wedding is getting bigger than they intended so they are not doing plus-ones (she specifically mentioned two of us who are single). ACK! I called one of the bridesmaids and asked her what her opinion was, and then I responded and basically said, “well, shoot, I had my date go ahead and book it based on the information when we talked in person”. She asked who the date was (I told her – a mutual friend – somebody not close enough to get an invite, but who probably would have still been invited if they still lived near us). She said she would talk to her fiancé.
Did I commit a serious breach of etiquette here? I would have never planned on a +1 if she hadn’t volunteered (I did NOT ask) the information. The wedding is less than 2 months away, which was really getting in the window of price increases for a cross-country holiday weekend flight. And my date is somebody I would actually really enjoy having with me as my date, not somebody I am in a relationship with but not my female best friend coming down from 2 hours away, either. If it comes down to it, I will give him the money back for his flight out of my own pocket.
Wildkitten
She did a breach of etiquette by doing takesy-backsies on her invitation. However, the invitation should have been clearly addressed with either a + guest or not. Did you get the invitation yet? Either way, it sounds like there might be space to save your plus one, so wait for a final answer from the bride before you panic.
Anonymous
No she is the rude one. She told you that you could bring a plus one, and accordingly you made plans.
lawsuited
I guess the difficulty is that you’re not often going to “see anything to the contrary” if you’re assuming a plus one, because people don’t say on the save-the-date or invitation “you and only you and definitely don’t bring anyone else….are invited to celebrate in the union of….” It’s really best to wait for a formal invitation before making travel plans, because a save-the-date is not an invitation, but I think if you’d been assuming you were getting a plus-one based on your conversation with your friend, it’s unlikely the invitation would have corrected that anyway. I reckon your friend should have been a bit more careful before telling you you could expect a plus-one, so hopefully she’ll recognize that and extend to invitation to your date.
Anonymous
She didn’t assume. She was told directly that she got a plus one. And now her rude friend is changing her mind.
anon
If people are traveling across the country to attend your wedding, you should really be communicating individually with them well in advance instead of expecting them to wait to book their travel until you send out invitations 4 – 6 weeks before the wedding. This bride did that, told the guest she could bring her date, and then changed her mind. That is seriously rude. The guest, and her date based on the conversation that the guest had with the bride, are shelling out hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend the bride’s wedding thousands of miles from their home, and if the date doesn’t attend they will be out at least the $250 change fee on his ticket. The bride and groom should graciously welcome the date and thank the guest and her date for making a huge effort to be there to celebrate with them.
cbackson
Yeah, the purpose of the save the date is to address this issue, and the save the date should have made it clear who was invited. And that’s the point when the bride should have advised anyone that she’d talked to about a plus-one that plans had changed.
Anonymous
Exactly. Save the dates are not an excuse to send out that zomg really cute picture, they actually serve a purpose–allowing people to make travel plans (or even for local weddings, to block off the date/arrange childcare). It was perfectly reasonable of OP to rely on the save the date and the bride’s statement that OP would have a +1.
anon
Who said she would talk to her fiancée? The bride, or a bridesmaid? If the bride said she would talk to her fiancé about allowing you to bring a plus one, I would just wait and see what she says. I don’t think you did anything wrong by telling a bridesmaid that you already booked a ticket for your plus one. This is why invitation etiquette exists- so that people who know specifically is invited and who is not. The bride told you that you would have a plus one, and then did not indicate anything to the contrary on your invitation. I think the etiquette breach here lies with her, not you.
OP
The bride is going to speak to her fiancé, the groom. Sorry for any confusion with that. The bridesmaid is a good mutual friend of all parties, so I called her for advice before responding to the bride.
wedding stuff
If you have really given us all the information, all I can say is that sucks! I would feel awkward now, if I were you either way.
So she is taking back what was on a written invitation? Or did I misunderstand…. maybe she didn’t invite a +1 for you on your written invitation….. and she just told you verbally you could have a +1 when you asked for it?
Could it be that the bride and groom didn’t invite your “friend” for a reason? And that you inviting them separately is awkward since they obviously didn’t want to invite that person (or simply couldn’t because they are limiting their list)?
Personally, I favor going to weddings alone if you are single OR married, if your spouse/SO or friend or dog walker is not also a close friend of the bride/groom that would have been invited anyway. But that’s me and I’m not the normal. It seems odd to me for you not to be bringing a SO, but bringing a friend instead.
To the hive…. do Save the Date invites not indicate if a +1 is allowed or not? I could see this getting to be a problem frequently if they don’t.
Anonymous
Girl
Please
Do not bring your absurd cray here. It’s insane to suggest it’s best to leave your husband home if he isn’t also a close friend. Absolutely bat poop cray.
If you are invited to bring a plus one, you can bring whomever you would like!! That is what those words mean. Please keep your cray in your own brain.
wedding stuff
I’m not allowed to give my opinion?
nice response
wedding stuff
Please ignore!
OP
I’ve given you hopefully everything! I am trying to be objective because I’m trying to figure out if I am a suck person.
The save the date was a blind copy email.
The bride told me I have a +1 verbally at the shower, after the save the date, before invitations. (we actually still don’t have invitations for a wedding 7 weeks away) I did not ask/solicit the +1 because I KNOW that is in bad form.
Honestly/objectively, though I do not know for sure, I think the friend I would be going with (one of my very close friends) would have been a T2 guest. This is a big wedding, but I really think if it had been even bigger and/or in our home city, he would have been invited.
wedding stuff
Then this just stinks! I would be planning ahead for such a cross country wedding, just like you.
Ugh!
Anonymous
I’m not sure the fact that he was a “T2 guest” makes your argument stronger. I think you’re entitled to a plus one because the bride told you you were getting a plus one, and etiquette says you can bring anyone you want unless told otherwise. But as a bride I found it really awkward when friends brought mutual friends that I knew and had chosen not to invite to the wedding.
OP
Yeah, actually, when we first talked about it I didn’t even bring up his name because I didn’t think it really mattered. This was a +1 or it wasn’t, right? I only told her when she specifically asked.
Anonymous
+1 this
Cat
To answer your last question — most do, and all should, using the same convention you’d expect on the formal invitation. So for aunt and uncle and their four little kids, it would say Mr. and Mrs. So-and-so and family. For known couples, both people’s names. For person with a plus-one, “and guest.”
wedding stuff
Thanks. Sounds appropriate.
So it sounds like this bride/groom is a little behind…. a casual email “save the date” and then a ? last minute formal invite that you still haven’t received. < 2 months before the wedding is "last minute" as people who work and who live cross country must plan ahead.
I learned the hard way not to assume anything, as I have received "Save the Dates" (f0rmal and informal) and then haven't received wedding invitations as numbers were re-assessed. They were kind of upsetting…… But in those situations I did not have a verbal confirmation, as you did.
OP
It does feel VERY last minute.
I did get invited to the bachelorette and second bridal shower, though, all also across the country.
OP
Even for invites any more, they’ve been a little ambiguous. Like leaving a blank where it says “RSVPing for ___ of ___”.
If it’s just me, shouldn’t it says “1” somewhere in there? Just make it straightforward for everybody involved?
Anonymous
I am not a big “plus one” person (we didn’t do them at my wedding and I don’t really understand why there’s so much support for guests bringing someone they’re not in a relationship with) but even I think you are clearly in the right here. The bride told you that you had a plus one. You justifiably acted on that and made an expensive purchase of plane tickets. Totally within your rights to get to change her mind again and give you the plus one she promised. If she doesn’t back down, I’d eat the change fees on both my ticket and date’s ticket and skip the wedding entirely.
Anonymous
I’m seriously wondering if the bride is my BFF…she also did email save the dates & hasn’t yet sent invites for her wedding in seven weeks. She didn’t recently relocate though, so there must be two disorganized brides out there!
OP
I get that things happen!
I’ve tried to be helpful, checking in with her as a friend, etc. without being a pain in the butt.
I don’t know. I was just so worried I was in the wrong here because I try very hard to respect the etiquette rules, but it doesn’t totally sound like it.
Also, ack, invitations! Please! An email invite is better than nothing…
Basically Sash
The bride was rude to give you permission to bring a +1 and then turn around and say “oh we’re not doing that anymore.” In hindsight, you probably should have asked for clarification when you got the invitation. Either way, the bride should know the situation and I’d expect her to either make an exception since your date already booked travel, or pay back fees associated with canceling said travel.
anonymous
Basically sash, I’m concerned about you. Does your new handle indicate that you regard yourself as an article of clothing? You may need therapy. And drugs.
Anonymous
Bahahahaha.
Basically Sash
“You may need therapy. And drugs.”
Who doesn’t?
Anonymous
I thought maybe it was an inability to spell sass?
anonymous from 11:03
Well I appreciate it either way.
Anonypotamus
I… laughed… so… hard… at… this… + 1 billion
Basically Sash
I feel like we’re getting sidetracked from OP’s +1 question, and that’s really obnoxious.
Wildkitten
This dress is gorgeous.
Elysian
Agreed! I love the whole neckline. I always get a little disappointed when the lower priced options that are linked don’t have the one feature I really adore from the dress in the post (the higher back of the neck and ruching in this case), but that’s what you get when bargain shopping I suppose.
Anonymous
It’s way too short for work unless you’re petite.
Petite
Short. You mean short.
Anonymous
With respect to clothes, petite = short. If you are using petite to mean thin, that’s wrong.
Hourly Fee ?
I am a former biglaw associate who transferred to the nonprofit sector several months ago. A colleague from the firm recently started his own firm with a big firm client. I had only spoken with the colleague while at the firm. The colleague reached out to me to see if I would be interested in doing some paralegal-type work, at my availability, which I did as an associate at the firm. My guess is that he would pay $x per hour. It was paralegal level work, but I was paid big bucks to do it at the firm. My thought is that he’ll eventually want me to join him as this client liked me very much, though that has not been proposed at this juncture. How much would you charge for such work? I’m on the east coast, but not NY/DC/Boston.
Hourly Fee ?
I had only spoken with the colleague A HANDFUL OF TIMES* while at the firm.
wedding stuff
Can you calculate what your “true” hourly rate was when you were last at the firm? Not the hourly rate that you bill the client, but the rate you actually wind up getting paid. I suspect you can make that calculation.
My sibling is not a lawyer, but has his own company doing a specialized type of research/consulting. When he was in a situation exactly like yours….. a recent/old employer (that he liked and wanted to maintain a good relationship with) asked for him to work on a project like this doing similar work to what he did when he worked for them, he “calculated” his hourly rate. He based his hourly rate not just on his prior “firm” income, but added a premium on top of it for the benefits he had at that job. He obviously does not have any of those benefits now that he is self-employed. It is up to you whether or not to do that, since you do have benefits from your new employer.
Do you think you’d leave to join this guy’s new company?
JJ
Does your non-profit have policies that would prohibit you from doing any side work? Is it any type of work that might involve legal analysis, because then your non-profit’s insurance probably won’t cover any malpractice claims for work you do for this partner.
I’d also worry that he wants you to do paralegal type work. That doesn’t mean he wants to hire you on full-time. That means he wants a paralegal.
Anonymous
Need to make sure your employer is ok with this side gig. Many wouldn’t be.
Anon
Regular, experienced corporate paras are billed out ~30 – 40 in Silicon Valley biglaw. Seniors are ~$60 and up. Rates are much lower on the East Coast because salaries are lower. I would imagine that midlaw bills less. Beyond the malpractice and moonlighting issues identified above, I would ask for $50/hr if you are doing actual high-quality paralegal work because you will not be getting a W-2.
This is based on my experience of ten years as a corporate paralegal in NY, London and Silicon Valley, both in-house and in biglaw (mostly biglaw). Note that law students are paid about $20-25 dollars, (but are sort of useless), so you want to price yourself at a rate that makes this worth your while but not too expensive.
Also, why doesn’t this guy want you as an atty, not a paralegal? If you’re doing senior-level paralegal work, there’s barely any difference with many tasks. I would query this.
I would also query whether you are going to be a “shadow” worker, only taking assignments from your friend with no direct client contact versus being client-facing. That matters for the efficiency and visibility of your role. For instance, do you have to stop work if you have a question and can’t ask client? That’s annoying.
Anonymous
Senior paralegals at my small Southern firm bill close to $300/hr, junior paralegals closer to $175-$200/hr. Secretaries without formal training but years of experience who do some paralegal work bill at $125/hr. And clients pay on these rates. Your rates seem really really low, but you didn’t state a “per ___” so maybe I’m misreading them.
TXLawyer
I *think* Anon at 10:35 is talking about true hourly rate- what the paralegal actually gets paid. Because I totally agree- $30-40 billed to client in Silicon Valley seems extraordinarily low.
Anonymous
I agree that Anon’s rate’s seem low but yours seem INSANELY high. I worked in Silicon Valley BigLaw. As a fifth year associate I was billed out around $400 (before discounts). There’s no way even the most senior paralegal in the firm was billed out at $300. I think ours were around $150, some very experienced ones maybe topping $200.
Anon Paralegal
Sorry – yes, I meant what the paralegals got paid, not what they bill out at. Brain fart. Am dealing with a lot of other stuff.
Paralegal IIs were billed at 220-260 and Paralegal III (when senior starts) at 260 and up. This was in biglaw in Silicon Valley recently. This was both at a V5 and also at a “Silicon Valley grandaddy” firm.
Anon at 10:55
Makes sense, Anon Paralegal.
Anon at 11:10, I’ll add that the senior paralegals typically bill out at the same rate or slightly higher than a 1st year associate (IIRC, the paralegal rate was higher than the stub year rate, but equal once the first year’s rate went up Jan 1). Rates increase at a level such that a 5th year is billing around $450 (though interestingly the increases tend to cap out there until you make equity partner–TPTB seem to have decided this is a good equilibrium rate that brings in revenue but still allows the soon to be income-partners to start bringing in clients and not be totally priced out).
Food item under $20??
Company is doing a Yankee gift swap this week – what “food items” would you be excited to see under the tree?? The $20 limit seems to be giving me fits – not quite enough to get something really nice, but there are plenty of sub-$10 items that are not quite there either. Bonus points if I can order it 2-day shipping on Amazon!
Em
I don’t know about Amazon but – nice olive oil or vinegar, box of chocolates, little jars of Penzey’s spices . . . .
KateMiddletown
A pound of gogi berries or something health-nutty.
Cb
Some nice chocolate / coffee or cool baking supplies (amazing vanilla, etc).
Cat
Does it have to be edible, or are food-related items ok? (Like a handful of new cooking utensils from the $3-5 bins at Crate and Barrel)
Anyway, nice coffee would be a big hit at my house – got addicted to Jamaica’s High Mountain coffee (much less pricey than Blue Mountain but just as yummy IMO) on vacation, and 8oz. is $19.90 on Amazon.
Wildkitten
Trader Joes has lots of fancy chocolates that would fit the bill.
Midwest Mama
Wine, coffee, or chocolates would be my favs. If you find smaller items you like, can you combine a couple of them to reach $20?
depressed mess
I am struggling with depression and feel like my entire domestic life is out of control. I am on meds, in therapy, etc – and feeling a lot better. But I have no motivation to take care of the small things in my life…
My house is a wreck. I haven’t done (or dropped off) laundry in weeks. All of my clothes are literally in a giant heap on the floor. I haven’t cooked a meal in weeks – have been eating out exclusively.
It’s not that I’m working crazy hours. I am just exhausted, and it’s easy to come home every night and watch tv/order takeout. I know I will feel so much better if my domestic life was in better order. But how can I get there?
Anybody else struggle with this? In part, the problem is I got out of a live-in relationship about six months ago. All of these household chores were split, and we had a routine. How do I make the same routine for myself?
CPA Lady
The website unf*ck your habitat is exactly what you are looking for. They have an awesome app too. It’s the only app I’ve ever paid for. The website is focused on helping people in exactly your situation– dealing with mental or physical health problems that make cleaning difficult.
TXLawyer
Can you take 2 or 3 days off around the holidays to get things in order? Spend one of those days committed to dealing with clothes/laundry instead of tackling it a couple hours a night for 3-5 nights. And give yourself one of those days to do nothing.
Also, don’t be afraid to outsource! If there’s a food service that delivers “home cooked” meals, take advantage of that. Just because you’re not cooking doesn’t mean you can’t eat well. And don’t punish yourself for things that aren’t punishment-worthy. It’s ok to eat out every meal if that works for your budget and personal nutrition.
Anonymous
I am a huge huge fan of “home cooked” meals that I can buy a week at a time. They’re healthy, taste better than anything I’d make, and more balanced than what I’d achieve while cooking for one and not wanting 18 pots going at one time. I highly recommend this if you’re getting burned out on takeout but cooking seems too daunting (for me, even something like Blue Apron where everything comes pre-measured with instructions evokes a Jessie Spano “there’s never any time!” anxiety response).
Baconpancakes
Where do you get those, other than Blue Apron?
Anonymous
I primarily buy from two places, Simply Fit Meals and Snap Kitchen in the DFW area. I know there are similar options in my Midwestern hometown so hopefully there is something in OP’s city. I’d only recommend against My Fit Foods–it started in Dallas, has expanded nationally, and tastes terrible.
ML
I have a lot of experience cooking but no longer put these skills to use due to time/energy/motivation constraints. I thought Blue Apron would be a way around my “issues.” Those meals are some of the most ridiculously time-consuming recipes I have ever prepared. I think the program is designed for people who do not really know how to cook and who also WANT to go home and spend major time (an hour or more) preparing a meal.
Anonymous
Can you afford a house cleaner? If you’re in a big city, go online right now and book Handy for later this week. I’m sure you have reasons not to- your house isn’t clean enough, you have to tidy first, you have feelings about their business model. Ignore them! You are literally drowning here. Get 4 hours of pro help now. Get two in another 2 weeks. Buy a bunch of lean cuisines and microwave them instead of eating out to save the money for a cleaner if you have to.
Once it’s no longer overwhelming, then you can start a routine.
anon
+1 to handy or task rabbit for an immediate fix, and then work on building better habits going forward. I hate hanging my clothes up when I get home, but I hate having to wash something that wasn’t dirty because I left it in a heap or iron/steam something more.
For food, I have a very hard time deciding what to eat and making food on a daily basis–I do better when I take the time and plan the whole week and order groceries accordingly. Try to pick out three meals for the week (i’m going to eat X for Tuesday dinner and Wednesday lunch, ect) and get groceries for those meals (in addition to breakfast), and see how that goes. I also like to google cooking party/crock pot party, and find a menu plan for 8 meals that you can make at once in a few hour span and then you will always have something to pull out of the fridge/freezer to make when you just aren’t feeling it one week. This is better if you do the prep with a friend.
I also cook doubles when I take the time to cook and freeze the second (if the recipe is conducive to freezing). Cooking doesn’t have to be a huge production–I prefer simple recipes that I know I’m going to like and can get excited about cooking. When I choose something too complicated, I’ll just give up and do takeout. I like the websites Budget Bytes and Skinnytaste a lot for this reason.
A.non
Thanks for saving my hide! I have had scheduling problems with a current housekeeper and think they might have dropped me as a client. Sorry to be a cliche, but it was recently suggested that I have ADD and will look into therapy and medication for it. My roommate has a party coming up and her mother showing up on Wednesday, so I need to find a replacement ASAP.
Thanks to the resourceful people of this site!
Shopaholic
Have you thought about a meal service like Blue Apron? You get groceries delivered to you for a specific recipe and then you just have to cook whatever is in the box/follow the recipe. It may be a good way to get you back into cooking at home without having to decide what to make/get groceries.
I agree with the advice not to punish yourself – it’s ok if you need to do this for a little while to get back into a better frame of mind.
For the cleaning your house part, I would start really slowly. For example, put on a dumb tv show and while you’re waiting for takeout, do one thing, like sort through the heap of clothes. I find the easiest way to get things done when I’m exhausted and just want to watch tv is to do it first, before I sit down.
Senior Attorney
I am a huge fan of Blue Apron. If it’s just you, the three meals for two in the box would be dinners for a whole week if you don’t mind eating each meal twice. You do have to do the actual cooking, but if you like to cook that shouldn’t be an issue. And again, it’s only three times and then you have the leftovers.
For the cleaning, I love the FlyLady trick of setting the timer for 15 minutes and just working on one thing (putting clothes away, clearing off the kitchen counter, whatever) until it goes off.
DisenchantedinDC
Floordrobe sister right here. I feel you.
Seconding unf**k your habitat. It’s great. It helps.
Try breaking things in to 30 minute chunks. It also helps. If I get myself going for 10 minutes, I can usually keep up the momentum for a bit.
I’d also tackle one thing at a time. Maybe your room. Maybe your kitchen. Maybe it’s eating out. Crockpots help. And, really, if you can afford to eat out all the time, maybe that’s not the issue you tackle right now.
Routines are hard. Be super kind to yourself. You’ll get through it.
wedding stuff
My situation is uncannily similar to yours.
Just one thing at a time.
I recommend starting on the laundry. Just one load a night. Start it while you are eating dinner. If you don’t have laundry at your home, then I recommend a “one-time” outsourcing. Drop it all off.
Hire out for a house cleaner. Even if that is not affordable long term, start now. You can taper down to once a month, and once you stop eating out as much the amount of $$ you save can easily cover the house cleaner.
Save the food/eating stuff until you feel like your home is back under your control.
Maybe try picking up prepared food from Whole food’s etc.. rather than take-out sometimes so it is a little bit healthier (at least you may have some healthier options). Pick up a rotisserie chicken once a week (can eat for several days), and make sure you always have fruits/veg (frozen is fine) in your fridge to add to anything. Then order out for the rest if you need to.
Cooking for one after a break-up is a hard one. You’ll get there.
One small thing….. Order a “happy light” from Costco or Amazon. Sit next to it while you are eating breakfast/drinking coffee in the morning, or keep it on your desk at work and keep it on in the morning. It helps in the winter.
Hang in there.
Jax
I second starting on the laundry, especially if you have a washer/dryer in your house. Set it on cold and start dumping the nearest items in it. While that’s running, you have about 25 minutes to tackle something else. Change your bed sheets? Load the dishwasher? Clean the bathroom? See if you can keep going for the whole 25 minutes. Then, toss that load in the dryer and reward yourself with a NetFlix show (45 minutes). When the show ends, grab your clothes out of the laundry and fold them. I like to fold right on top of the dryer, because I’m too tempted to leave it sitting all nasty in the basket if I don’t–but you can drag it back and do it while watching TV. By the end of your evening, you’ll have a huge jump on your space and will feel encouraged!
Anon85
I have depression too, and it’s all too easy to spend all day/night in bed, with clothes scattered everywhere and takeout boxes
UnF*ckYourHabitat was a godsend. It broke it up into small, digestible bites I could do when I COULD get out of bed. I used to think if the whole house wasn’t sparkling, what’s the point? But UFYH showed that just small bites can build up to make you feel like you have more order to your life.
During my worst, I also order groceries from Fresh Direct, including ready-made meals. It’s at least a step up from pizza or Chinese food.
Anonymous
+1 GAD/depression sufferer here too. Fresh Direct prepared meals, especially the 4-minute microwave ones (if they still have them — I moved out of delivery range) were a godsend — healthy, quick and not that expensive, especially versus takeout.
Gather all of your clothes together and send them out to get washed. If $$ is a problem, then do one load a night. Or call a close friend to hang out while you slog through chores (wine + bad TV = waiting for the dryer to end that much quicker).
Give yourself some space / time to heal too. Depression is so exhausting, especially when you’re trying to get the right balance of meds + therapy. Give yourself a break on some of this. Focus on the absolute essentials you must get done (showering, getting to work on time, eating, taking meds), and automate / let slide everything else you can.
(Also, not a doctor at all, but if you don’t start feeling better on the meds they’ve given you in the time frame they’ve said you’d feel better, please speak up! I spent a year on the wrong dosage and was miserable. Got a new psychiatrist who actively worked with me to make me feel my best, and it’s made all the difference.)
Blonde Lawyer
I’m a clothes on the floor gal too and eventually I wind up with such a big mess that I am totally overwhelmed and don’t know where to start. For me, having company while I try to make headway makes a big difference. My husband will sit on the bed playing computer games while I sort my crap into piles like clean and hang up, dirty and wash, dryclean only, etc. Just having someone to chat with while I do it keeps me focused and makes it seem less overwhelming. Do you have a bff that wouldn’t be horrified by your clothes mountain that could hang out with you while you work on it?
Also, break the bigger jobs into smaller jobs. Instead of “clean house” or even “clean bathroom” make it a really small achievable task like “scrub upstairs toilet bowl.” That’s all you have to do to be “done” for that day. At least you made a bit of progress. As you start seeing a little bit of progress it gets less overwhelming.
Also, use timers. Commit to just ten minutes of cleaning. When the timer goes off you are free to keep cleaning or go back to the tv.
anonymous
Sometimes I subsist on Trader Joe’s frozen meals and prepared salads for weeks at time. This might be a good intermediate step for you, and it’s even somewhat healthy depending on what exactly you get.
Anonymous
I lived on Trader Joe’s when I was cooking for one.
anonymama
For me, it helps if I just break it down into really small tasks. My overarching goal is when I go to bed, it has to be a little better than it was that morning. Actually one of the best motivators is when there is a minor disaster (say, broken glass or dropped plate on the floor) that I have to clean up, and then once I get started (ugh, have to vacuum this 2×2 square of carpet) it is so much easier to just be like, okay then since I have the vacuum out anyway, I might as well pick up this dirty sock and vacuum an extra couple feet, and then since I picked up the sock and am heading towards the laundry basket anyway I might as well pick up the rest of the dirty clothes on the way there, and then I can vacuum the rest of the rug. And sometimes the momentum doesn’t really get going, but at least I can feel like I did one little thing and it is just a little bit better than it was, and then you can feel like you’re on an upward trajectory instead of on a never-ending downward slide.
lost academic
Don’t let how monumental the entire overall task/problem is overwhelm you. Everything is made up of smaller and smaller increments, the smallest of which is usually a 5-15 minute effort – shoving all the clothes on the floor into a pile. Putting some of the pile in the washer. Putting all the dirty dishes around the house into the kitchen…then the sink…then the dishwasher… emptying the clean dishwasher! I second the recommendations to have someone come in and take a whack at it. If you don’t like the idea of having that a a regular service, it’s still a good thing to get help with once – the problem will seem a lot more manageable once you’ve taken the top few layers off and can make some headway with the little steps.
What also helped me is finding a way to stop beating myself up over chores I didn’t do daily or weekly. I have a bad habit of going to bed or waking up in the morning and basically cataloging failures in a list in my head. But you know what? IT IS OK. IT REALLY IS. Now when I do make progress, I’m a lot happier with myself, rather than feeling like any small effort is just Never Enough, and by association, I am Not Good Enough. Getting out of that mindset and circular negativity helped. I’m not totally out of it, of course, but I’m better at breaking the cycle.
Kindascrewed
Thank you to all the people who provided level-headed comments for my green card issue last week. I was so desperate to get home I was not thinking straight! To give you an update, I went to my local USCIS Field Office at 7:30 and cried like a baby to two levels of security, and to the USCIS officer. They took pity on me and let me see an officer straight away. I’ve got the stamp and am leaving tonight! Thank you to all. I am grateful for such a great group of intelligent and practical women!
Anonymous
Yay! What a happy ending!
moss
I’m so glad! What a horrible situation, very stressful! I’m happy things worked out for you and all the best to your mother.
DisenchantedinDC
Great news!!
Wildkitten
Yay! Enjoy!
Blonde Lawyer
Wonderful!
espresso bean
So glad to hear that!
Senior Attorney
Hooray!!
ITDS
Yay! A win for human decency over bureaucracy!
APC
Good! I was thinking about you and worrying since I heard of someone in a similar situation not getting back into the country this past weekend. Glad you got the stamp – travel safe.
Anonymous
How do you deal with a profound lack of motivation? I have a HUGE workload at work that I expect to continue for the next year to year and a half, and I really should be working a lot more than I am. I really do enjoy my work, but it turns out that when I have to sit down and do it, I’d rather be doing anything else. How can I fix this?
Elysian
On an individual day – Try doing it in small bursts? I’m a big fan of the Pomodoro Technique, and there are lots of phone apps that can help do something like that. When I’m unmotivated I promise myself I’ll do 10 mins (or whatever) of uninterrupted work, and then I’ll take a 10 min (or whatever) break to do something I’d prefer. Set a timer. Sometimes I spend the day doing low quality work in spurts, but usually once I get some momentum going I can keep with it for longer bursts.
In the big picture – A year and a half is a long time to expect to be unmotivated. What’s up with that? If this is a long-standing problem I think that’s what you need to address. Are you burnt out? Maybe its time to schedule a vacation. If you like your work, are you maybe de-motivated by your boss or your employer? Maybe its time to look for something else. Or is “I really do enjoy my work” just a lie you tell yourself because it seems like you should really like your work, but for whatever reason don’t? Figuring out what is going on overall is going to be the key to this for the next year and a half.
Ellen
Yay! Pricey Monday’s! I love Pricey Monday’s and this Tahari two toned dress. To bad it is at Bloomie’s which still has me on their watch list — all for tracking in Poopie from some dog that probably was with a Bloomie’s customer! FOOEY!
Anyway, as for the OP, I agree with Eleysian on some of her point’s, but there is one she left out. If you are unmotivated, figure out what it is that WOULD motivate you! I know in my case that I tend to dwell on negative thing’s (such as why a girl like me is NOT married and Rosa is) and that is when I can NOT do my regular weekeley billing’s. So I put those thing’s out of my mind and I am a working dynamo. In my case, I work like crazy, bill like crazy and make money for the firm so that I can show my potential husband that I am abel to be an equal partner in MARRAGE, so that he will NOT see me as an albatross while he work’s.
So in your case, figure out what motivate’s you and then do what you need to do to get there. In my case, I dress well, exercise, take care of my personal financeal life (with dad’s help and with Ed’s counseling on my Merill account). Once I find the right guy to MARRY, I will be abel to move to the suburb’s and stop alot of this nonsense, and become a WC Judge! YAY!!!!!
TigerMom
He is out there!
Naming conventions
Are there rules for naming guys with numerals (like Jr, III, etc.)? We don’t have any in my family. A friend of my child I thought had a middle initial of V (like Vincent), but it turns out that when the mom signs “Billy V,” she means Billy the Fifth.
I guess I thought that you kept the numbering going for kings (and popes). For non-royalty non-popes, wouldn’t you need four living relatives with that name to get to a fifth? Or not?
Or is this just another kid naming trend (former trends being medieval professions (hunter, miller, cooper) and dead presidents (tyler, taylor, etc.))?
anon
I don’t think all of the relatives need to be living in order to continue the trend– is Billy’s dad or grandfather “Billy IV”? That would explain it.
But the whole thing seems obnoxious once you get to IV, V, etc. And it bothers me that girls do not get the same consideration. I’ve seriously thought about naming my daughter (if I have one) after me and calling her “anon last name Jr.” just to see people’s reaction.
anonymous
I agree. I generally dislike naming one’s child after oneself, but I’m sorely tempted to do it myself just for some parity.
Wildkitten
I have a friend who is lady name the third.
Anonymous
Isn’t that only possible if you only give the third the mother’s maiden name as a last name? I assumed that is why it’s not as common – female last names don’t descend to allow for seconds and thirds.
Wildkitten
It’s only been explained to me after a couple glasses of wine so I don’t remember the mechanics, but it’s true. Maybe paternal grandmother, aunt, friend?
Lucy
My female neighbor is a junior. And she signs that way. It’s great.
Anonymous
A good friend of mine is a (male) IV. He doesn’t even really want to be married or have kids, except for the fact that he thinks being a V would be awesome.
anon2
For the Senior and Junior designation, technically, the Senior has to be living. But sometimes Juniors continue to use Junior afterwards for purposes of clarity.
II, III, IV etc are not constrained by this and usually keep the II or III forever. Juniors sometimes convert to II when III is named.
I have a business acquaintance whose name is “Saint Lastname V” and his son is “Saint Lastname VI” and he apparently loves that he is descended from a long line of men named Saint.
Diana Barry
IME you don’t need the previous ones to be living – when I was a kid I had a friend who was an IV – his dad and grandpa were living (III and Jr.) but great-grandpa was not.
Also IME, it usually dies out before you get to VI – V is usually the limit. My friend above didn’t continue the numbering when he had kids.
Anonymous
The whole thing is weird — over a IV’s lifetime, would he go from IV to III to Jr. maybe even to Senior if he has a child with the same name? That could be really confusing. And hard to monogram.
In my very small home county, there are crime families of sorts. You had to really know the names because they did recycle them (so you’d have Sr., Jr., II, III, different middle initial, different spelling of first name (like James had a son just named Jimmy and his son is legally named Jim but they call him “junior”), all with records of some sort. Really hard to keep track of at times (one had children by two women around the same time, both of whom went with “junior”-type names for the boys). I never thought that this was remotely posh-sounding, but my BigLaw neighborhood has nothing but this. I still chuckle.
Aunt Jamesina
Like with kings, your number doesn’t change as the older generation dies out or the next generation is born. So if you’re born Ebeneezer Horace Delacroix III, you’ll remain the third your entire life.
Aunt Jamesina
Ohh, I stand corrected. This is so bizarre! The two numeral-ed people I know didn’t seem to change their number when the older generation passed. This is such a strange tradition. I think it’s Americans trying to invent a pedigree?
lost academic
No, I think you’re confusing the point of the numeral. You’re not “number 3” , you are “the third”. You will always be the third, because you can’t have any that come before you that weren’t counted. It’s about more than just telling the living apart. And I strongly disagree with your “invent a pedigree” comment.
Senior Attorney
Yes, back in the day the numbers were only used to keep the living bearers of the same name straight. So if one had the same name as one’s grandfather, one might start out as “III” and move up to “Jr.” and “Sr.” (if there were younger people with the same name) as the older bearers of the name died off.
lawsuited
Bahahahaha! We cannot tolerate this naming tradition because it is hard to monogram! This is the best.
Anonymous
I thought monograms were just letters. Are the numerals actually involved?
If it’s just letters, then that actually makes monogramming EASIER, because then you have multiple people that all have the same monogram.
Em
I think traditionally everyone had to be still alive for the numbering to stick but people don’t really do that anymore.
Anonymous
Absurd. I don’t care if it is technically correct, it’s ridiculous.
the First
Technically, for a “The third” or “the fifth” to be proper, all the preceding ancestors have to be alive. So when the “first” dies, the others move up. If there is no living ancestor, there is no “the fifth” … technically speaking.
However, when you’re naming, you do you. Nobody calls to check if you really have four or five ancestors with that same name. If you want to name your kid King Xerxes XXIV, go for it. Similarly, smile indulgently at the people who have produced Billy the Fifth.
We named our son after my husband and decided on a “II” for the designation (instead of Junior). It’s totally up to you. I am also the parent of a “the third” but the “first” ancestor is no longer living. I don’t adhere to the tradition.
Anonymous
That’s dumb. The second is supposed to be for when the living ancestor with the same name is not the father.
the First
I don’t make the rules, I just flout them.
Naming conventions
I like III (but more b/c I like Trip and Trey as nicknames). I didn’t think about it much until running into this situation though. I don’t know how it will be for Billy the Fifth’s future brother, who will probably just have an ordinary name like Wally (but why not go the George Forman route and have him be Billy the Sixth?).
Clementine
I know a Trey who is really John A. Smith III. It very much suits the kid-
Regarding naming babies after the mother, I know a family where Thomas and Susan (who goes by Sue) named their kids Thomas John and Susie… I still don’t know if I give them points for gender equality or negative points for lack of creativity.
They’re also the people who on Facebook made a HUGE deal about their ‘gender reveal’ and ‘name reveal’.
Oh, and don’t even get me started on the fact that it’s a sex reveal not a gender reveal… Sex is biological, gender is sociological and requires the kid to have self awareness beyond what a fetus is capable of…
Anonymous
I think we know what the gender-reveal parents mean. So tacky.
But for a gender reveal, does anyone remember the SNL character Pat?
Wildkitten
Now I want a child just to name her King Xerxes XXIV.
the First
I support your desire. I think the world needs a woman King Xerxes XXIV.
Anonymous
It’s very Chad Ocho Cinco.
NOLA
Once again, a reason for a Like button.
Anon
I have good friends who have a family convention of naming the first kid Cornelius. They are on the 6th. They have Neil (Grandpa, IV), Cory (Dad, V) and Eli (son, VI). It’s sort of horrifying and also a huge family joke. I think it’s kind of cool though to have a family tradition.
Anonymous
Have they named a girl Cornelia yet?
Also, can more lineal people get in on it (like a daughter names her son or does it have to be son-of-a-son)?
Too much like the Downton Abby fee tail for me.
Anon for this...
Yeah, it’s horrifying, until you are actually the wife of the guy with a numerical designation. It’s really hard to be the one who bucks trend in this case. Both for familial reasons, and because it likely means a lot to the guy.
Anonymous
It’s so weird though — why do other boys in the family do or feel when they’re not in on the coolness (or whatever)? Never mind the girls.
Anon for this...
IME, it’s the oldest who’s had the numerical name. My husband had no brothers, so no issue there. His dad’s brother was given his mom’s maiden name (so think “Jackson”) and another family name for a middle name. Now those names have carried on through his family. Yeah, we are southern. And honestly, I like the deep rooted name tradition. Far better IMO than naming a kid “Navaeh” or some variant of a normal name with a weird spelling that includes a lot of “Y”s.
Anonymous
I saw a name that I swear was something elvish from LOTR. On a non-elf.
Blonde Lawyer
My dad is a III and bucked the trend with my brother. There was definitely some side-eye but everyone got over it. II had a bad reputation and my dad wasn’t fond of being confused with him. Wasn’t going to keep that going.
Killer Kitten Heels
This, for sure! My H is a IV (and he retains the IV even though the I and II are deceased, because the IV is part of his legal name for government purposes, so he’d have to go through the legal name change process to remove it – in our state, the process is burdensome and more expensive than just writing “IV” on official docs).
I have no intention of naming a potential male offspring H’s name – H, however, would like to have a “Hisname V,” and continues to try to persuade me to go with it. I honestly don’t know how we’re going to resolve it if/when I get pregnant – I only want one child anyway, so I’m mostly just hoping for a girl.
Cimorene
Can I ask — are you opposed to the name Hisname, or are you opposed to your son being the V? If it’s the name Hisname, is it the actual name itself or the idea that the “control,” so to speak, or your son’s name, would be taken away from you?
Killer Kitten Heels
Late to respond, but it’s definitely not a control thing. My dad is a junior and hates it, and it’s created annoying logistical and practical problems for him, so I’m disinclined towards the practice in general, and in particular, V seems unnecessarily pretentious and silly. My FIL is a mechanic, not a knight of the round table.
X
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about my family and then I remembered that my grandfather was Connie for Albert Cornelius, my uncle is A.C. instead of Junior, my aunt is Ann Cornelia (his sister, not wife) and my cousin is Cory (his nephew). Cory is single, no kids. Not sure if the tradition will continue.
Meg Murry
In my family the name is Matthew, and it’s on least it’s 6th generation. The middle names are all different though, so no need to worry about Juniors, etc. It pretty much alternates by generation whether the child is called Matthew/Matt or by his middle name.
anon
There’s a family tradition in our family of handing down a family name for boys. They aren’t always sequential so the current iteration is only at IV, but family genealogy/lore has this name appearing somewhere for generations (I think it’s 150-200 years now). There are plenty of associated nicknames to keep everyone straight and these are fairly common/standard Scotch-English names. I’m in the South so recycling family names is the norm.
Anonymous
I’m in the South, but we mainly recycle last names from the women’s lines so they don’t disappear (says person who didn’t change her name upon marrying b/c all of my names are family names and I didn’t want to kill off any prematurely).
— e.g., Carrington Dexter Colby (but you can call me Carrie)
anon
Oh, my child has his grandmother’s maiden name as his middle name (she was the last in the line) for that reason. Equal opportunity name saving going on here.
Anonymous
My dad is a V. His dad was IV, granddad was III, etc. Clearly not all ancestors were alive when he was born. Middle name is not good as a nickname in any iteration and the first name only has two variants. So even though he is tall, there are those who still referred to him as an adult as “Little First Name” or occasionally “First Name Five.” He had girls, so did not perpetuate the name chain. I doubt he would have done it even if he had a boy.
the First
That’s what we were trying to avoid, the “Junior” or “Little” following him around for the rest of his life. We call him by a numeral-related nickname at home and he’s taken to going by his actual first name at school.
lost academic
No, they don’t have to be living. Technically they don’t need to be sequential either – Billy IV could follow a Jim that followed Billy III for instance.
(That’s how it works in my family, and oddly enough with the name William – my grandfather was William IV (went by Willy or Will) and my uncle Bill (Billy when he was little) is V.
NOLA
For the first time in my adult life, I don’t have to sing at an 11:00 pm service on Christmas eve so a friend and I are hosting a c*cktail thing after the second service (which ends at 8 pm). I will be at church starting at about 4:15 and won’t get home until about 8:30. My friend may be able to get in to my house earlier.
I’d welcome any and all ideas for what do serve. We want to do light-ish food but people really won’t have had dinner who have been singing all night. I thought about having some marinated pork tenderloin ready to throw on the grill and maybe a mashed potato bar? That might be too complicated to reheat. I’m not sure. Please send me ideas for:
1) Food that can be made ahead and either reheated or served cold.
2) A couple of c*cktails that we can make ahead in pitchers.
Thanks in advance!
Diana Barry
If you don’t mind leaving the oven on super low, I would do a lasagna – always LOVED that after the late carols service since it is too heavy to eat beforehand! :)
NOLA
I had thought about doing baked ziti. Will have to give this some thought.
Cb
Oh that sounds lovely! What about chilli in a crockpot?
NOLA
Oh that might be perfect! I have a crockpot that a friend gave me. I could do my usual black bean/stew meat chili then one that’s veggie and put out toppings. A lot less fancy than I was thinking but really easy.
Care
My family does chili and tamales every year for Christmas Eve. We love it because it’s easy to eat & carry while you mingle, feeds a huge crowd (we have around 45), and it’s easy to make ahead and then let simmer in the crock pot. You can make it a bit fancier with nice toppings in pretty bowls (we usually get some specialty jalapenos and fancy cheeses), but it’s such a good comfort food that I don’t think anyone minds that it’s not super fancy!
Senior Attorney
I did this for a family dinner just before Thanksgiving (one meat, one veggie, toppings on the side, cornbread), and everybody loved it.
NOLA
Yeah I love the idea but it may not be festive enough for Christmas eve.
Anonymous
Meatballs in a crockpot, lots of cheese, shrimp cocktail, mini crab quiches (room temp is fine), mini dinner rolls with pre-cooked sliced beef tenderloin and mustard for making sandwiches, and a crudité platter.
Sparkling wine with cranberry syrup, red wine, white wine, and Coquito.
Lots of baked goods.
NOLA
Thanks! Great ideas. We did a caramel apple martini for Thanksgiving so I’ll probably do that again. Maybe some chocolate pudding shots. Thinking about a peppermint or chocolate peppermint c*cktail. I was thinking about the idea of sliced beef tenderloin and rolls.
CMC
I want to go to this party.
+1000 to coquito!
NOLA
Awww, thanks! I’ve done different things on Christmas eve but in the past several years, we’ve had three services so we had to just have dinner at a friend’s between the second and third services. With no 11:00, it really frees us up. For soloists, it’s difficult to even have a drink when you have to go back and sing. This should be fun! If you’re in N.O, let me know!
Marise
Coquito? Nice to see a Boricua on this site!
DisenchantedinDC
Mac and cheese balls. I know I can’t shut my face about them. But they are good cold, too.
NOLA
LOL. Cute idea! Do you have a recipe you like?
DisenchantedinDC
This is the least scientific recipe ever:
I use a one pot mac and cheese – pinterest/google to find one that looks doable for you . The gist is, boil the macaroni in milk to kind of create a roux. Really, all you need is to get the milk/noodle ratio right. I think I use a quart of milk to half a pound of noodles, but I’m at work not in my kitchen, so don’t hold me to that.
Then I use sharp cheddar and smoked gouda. Grate it, dump it in. I don’t like using pre-grated for this (I think the flavor isn’t as good). I put the noodles in to a pyrex and add the cheese that way so its’ kind of “sticky” but you can totally do it in the pot. Also add a little paprika, black pepper and mustard powder/Dijon. Taste your mac and see if it needs anything. I’ve added a little lemon juice here.
Pam/spray/(butter if you’re less lazy than me) a mini cupcake tray (could probably do this in a regular tray, too). Coat insides of cups with Panko (Japanese bread crumbs – they sell them in the “Asian Food” section of the grocery store). Plop a spoonful of mac and cheese in there. Don’t pack it in – the texture on top helps. Top with more panko/parmesean if you’re feeling fancy. Bake for 10 minutes. Can broil for a minute or two if you’re also feeling fancy.
LET THEM SET. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Once they are set, pop them out with a knife/mini spatula/sppon. Boom, ready to go. Could serve with a tomato jam if you want. Or just put them on a plate and watch them disappear. Somebody posted a recipe the other day too where they were done in regular muffin tins and wrapped in prosciutto? I need to try that, too.
NOLA
Perfect! Thanks!
Care
Could these be made ahead and refrigerated overnight and then heated up again the next day?
I’m hosting a party and trying to make everything possible ahead.
DisenchantedinDC
@Care – yes, I have done this! I would also consider just serving them cold. Mac and cheese is good cold/lukewarm, too, which is why there are perfect for everything.
Clementine
Shout out for choir-ing at Christmas Eve mass!
Hot cocktail idea- regular/decaf coffee with peppermint schnapps and/or baileys? I personally like a bit of amaretto in mine. Put out some bottles and coffee and let people have at it.
Alternate easy cocktail: a poinsettia. It’s just cranberry juice and champagne- I also float some frozen whole cranberries in it to look pretty. Two bottles, no playing bartender, no waiting.
NOLA
Great idea! I liked the pitcher of c*cktails idea because, as you say, no bartending.
Anonymous
You can make pomegranate martinis ahead and they would be perfect for a festive occasion like this.
Anon
I’m a first year biglaw associate and one of my best friends committed suicide yesterday. Barely holding it together at work. Just had to tell someone.
moss
I’m so sorry, what a horrible shock for you.
Lilly
>>hugs<>more hugs<<
DisenchantedinDC
I am so so sorry. Big internet hugs. I don’t know what else to say besides take care of yourself.
rosie
I am so sorry for your loss. Please reach out to whoever you feel comfortable doing so, whether it’s here, in person, or over the phone (1-800-273-8255 is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline).
NOLA
So sorry for your loss. That’s just awful.
anon a mouse
I’m so sorry for your loss. That’s heartbreaking.
New Tampanian
So sorry to read this!! Be gentle with yourself. If you can take some time away, do it.
Wildkitten
+1. This is a situation in which it makes perfect sense to fall apart. Whenever you can – leaving early, taking a break, etc, – holding yourself together sounds exhausting.
Elysian
Seriously. If you can take a sick day, do that. (Unless it is better for you to distract yourself with work.) Mental health is real health and this sounds just awful. I’m so sorry.
Anonymous
So sorry for your loss. In my experience, Big Law firms are relatively understanding about this kind of thing (surprising, given how little they respect work-life balance in all other respects). It might be worth asking if you can take a personal day or two right now to recover, and certainly don’t hesitate to ask for a day off if necessary to attend the funeral. Hugs.
OP
Thank you everyone. My firm is big on facetime (they say they aren’t but they are) but luckily i get my own office so I’ve stayed on the rails so far. I don’t post here much but I lurk a lot and appreciate the the community of this s*te.
emeralds
I am so sorry for your loss. Really seconding the suggestions to take a day or two off so you can grieve in peace or with your people, even if you’re in a position that emphasizes facetime. Take care of yourself and know that we’re all thinking about you.
Anonymous
*hugs*
And if there was ever a time to not worry about face time (and find out if your coworkers / superiors are human), it would be now.
*hugs*
Please tell someone
I’m a biglaw partner, and no matter how facetime-y your firm is, you will not get dinged for taking time off at a time like this. If it helps to be at work, stay at work, but if not, absolutely ask for the time you need. And if you stay at work, let someone know what’s going on so they can cut you some slack. I would absolutely want to know if one of my junior associates was going through something like this.
Senior Attorney
+1 Really, even biglaw partners are not complete and total monsters. I hope you will take this good advice.
And I’m so, so sorry for your loss.
Agreed
+1 from another biglaw partner. And no matter how much you think you can hold it together, you might make mistakes. It’s not worth it – you’re a first year. Tell a partner you trust, whether or not you are working for them.
MJ
I am so sorry for your loss. Unless you are in the middle of a trial or a deal that’s urgent, I really would go in and talk to either a senior associate or a partner in your group, explain what happened and tell them that you will be back on Weds or Thursday. (You do you–if it’s better to be busy at work, stay. But sometimes you just need to leave to process.) Even if your firm is horrid and impersonal and big on Facetime, in my years in biglaw, people have been surprisingly cool when death is involved.
EX: Friend from college was killed by drunk driver
EX: Mother was in hospice and I went home to watch her on the day she “chose to die”
EX: Longtime pet dies
EX: Associate’s sister attempts suicide, etc,
All of these have happened in my time in biglaw (not all to me), and I swear, people are much more understanding than you think. People will step up to cover for you, so even if this technically doesn’t fit into your firm’s bereavement policy, PLEASE TAKE SOME TIME OFF.
Hugs. Things like this definitely put biglaw into perspective and sometimes the mundane (rap that people think is important is just SO NOT IMPORTANT. [Apologies for ELLENCAPS.]
Please take care. Again, so sorry.
Blonde Lawyer
This. And don’t feel like it doesn’t “count” because it’s not family or doesn’t fit into the formal definition of a bereavement policy. My firm (not big law) was great when a friend suddenly died in a car accident. I was hosting out of town friends and driving people to services in addition to attending them myself. I had actual litigation events scheduled and people jumped up to cover or we moved them. Everyone was so understanding. I felt there was more sympathy than when my grandmother passed. It is expected that old people eventually depart. Everyone knows it is shocking and unexpected when your peers do. Take care of you!
Ems
Ditto this. Your midlevel/senior/partner (whoever the next person up/is on your team) would want to know so they can cover for you if you’re busy.
Anon
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve been there (though not while in biglaw), but having gone through a different personal trauma while at biglaw, if there’s a senior associate or partner who you’re close with at all, I’d recommend talking to someone at the office. People were very good about helping get coverage and keeping an eye out for me once I told a couple people, and it really made the next couple weeks more bearable. Also, do see if your firm as an employee assistance program, which could set you up with someone to talk to if you think it would help you.
lsw
How awful. Be kind to yourself and take some time off if you can. Hugs and good vibes sent your way.
Anonymous
I am late to respond, but if you are still reading– when I was 25, a very dear college friend committed suicide. I am not in biglaw, but MANY of my college friends were at the time, and they were all 1st or 2nd years. When I showed up to the service, which was across the country for most, every single one of them was there. The only person from our entire network of friends from college that didn’t make it was actively deployed overseas. We Skyped him into the service and he did a reading, and then in subsequent years (we are going on the 10th anniversary soon) organizes a group to do the Out of the Darkness walks.
I remember having dinner after the service with these friends and mentioning how surprised I was to see them there given that they bailed on pretty much everything else (weddings, vacations, dinner/drinks). This is the sort of thing that you work around.
CMC
I don’t have anything especially eloquent to add, but I am so, so sad to hear this. You’ll be in my thoughts.
APC
Also late to reading this and don’t have anything to add except that you are in my thoughts. This website may have its negative moments, but always feel like if you have no one else to talk to you can come here. My condolences.
the gold digger
Is it too much to ask for sleeves on work dresses?
Aurora
Antonio Melani’s work dresses consistently have sleeves and it’s one of the main reasons why, even though I dream about a closet full of higher-end designers, I will always be a Melani devotee. I refuse to wear something that looks unprofessional when I take my jacket off unless I’m 100% guaranteed to have the jacket on all day (i.e. court).
Anon in DC
Therapists who work outside insurance in the DC area?
I have one I love, but due to life situations I actually have two friends with horrific/non-existent mental care benefits looking to speak to somebody, and I’d love to be able to refer them to someone who will work with an out of pocket payment patient.
FWIW, both are general life change/strain/recently out of long term relationships situations.
anon a mouse
I found a lot of good leads using the Psychology Today referral service. The vast majority of providers there do not participate in insurance.
Therapist rec
Elissa Dolina is wonderful. She’s located in McLean, VA. (571) 265-5697
KJ
I have a pair of Ferragamo flats that I never wear and would like to sell. They are in great condition – I have only worn them a a few times and never outside. I have the original shoe bag and possibly the original box somewhere. I bought them from Nordstrom, so I could pull up the receipt for when I bought them if I needed to. I’ve never sold a high end item before, so I’m not sure what the best route is for selling them? eBay? Some other website? I’m in the DC area, so if anyone has a recommendation for a good consignment shop around here, I’d love to hear it.
Wanderlust
I’ve had good luck on tradesy.com. It gives you a suggested price, but ultimately you can set the price yourself.
anon a mouse
Secondi in Dupont Circle might work for you.
Anonymous
Mint Condition in Alexandria is good, too.
Anonymous
Depending on how old they are, could you return them if you have the receipt and packaging? Nordstrom is infamous for this and if you spend a decent amount of money there, I wouldn’t feel too bad.
X
For classics, The First Noel and Feliz Navidad
In the Pink
What’s your favorite Christmas carol? I’ll start..
O Holy Night
NOLA
Oh, In the Pink, I’ve sung O Holy Night on Christmas eve waaaaay too many times!
I think these days mine is Hark the Herald Angels Sing. We sang that with brass choir yesterday and it was so beautiful, I got choked up. As a bonus, you can also sing it like a Peanuts character.
Cat
I love both of those, and will add Adeste Fideles!
Clementine
See, my ‘oh my god I’ve sung it so many times’ set of Christmas songs from choir is everything by Rutter- especially Candlelight Carol.
Mine might be Darke’s rendition of In the Bleak Midwinter.
NOLA
Oh, I love that! We’re singing it Christmas eve.
Squintly Lady
I second singing that carol like a Peanuts Character. Yesterday was the annual “kids sing carols” festivity and I could not stop thinking of a Charlie Brown Christmas when they got to Hark the Herald Angels Sing.
(Also there were apparently a tiger, a penguin, and a zebra at the manger. Who knew?)
Anonymous
Justin Bieber: Mistletoe. It’s been stuck in my head all week.
wedding stuff
The Charlie Brown Xmas album.
Corelli’s Xmas Concerto
Handel’s Messiah – if I am playing in the orchestra.
I’m not a Xmas carol person at all, but all of these are holiday favorites.
One of my beautiful, organized, brilliant and socially **perfect** friends so was amazing that she ALWAYS had wrapped emergency birthday and Xmas presents at hand. Can you imagine? Her emergency Xmas present that she brought as a thank you to all holiday parties was the Charlie Brown Xmas album.
mary
The Holly and the Ivy!
TXLawyer
Bing Crosby’s White Christmas
SW
Another O Holy Night fan here. I also love Little Drummer Boy (the Bing Crosby and David Bowie version).
Ems
thirding O Holy Night. I stop every time I hear it.
mascot
O Come, O Come Emanuel and Little Drummer Boy
I also love Faith Hill’s “Where are you Christmas”
mascot
*Emmanuel. Missing the edit function still.
OttLobbyist
It Came Upon A Midnight Clear – so simple, so pretty
Amelia Bedelia
LOVE this one.
Mignon Minion
I Wonder as I Wander. Can be solo or choral.
Diana Barry
I have to say my LEAST favorite is Little Drummer Boy. Blerghhhhhhhhhh.
Right now in my head is Gaudete, so I’ll have to say that one, but I really don’t have a favorite – there are so many I like! A un nino llorando and Allegria for Spanish, Part and Parsons Ave Marias, Il est ne le divin enfant and Patapan for French, and so many English ones my head would explode if I had to list them all. :)
Mignon Minion
I have not heard the first two, thank you for posting!
X
I also hate The Little Drummer Boy and Oh, Tannenbaum!
Double-Bingo
In mild defense of Little Drummer Boy, while the bad versions probably outweigh the good (and oh man some of them are TERRIBLE), there are actually a few good ones out there! The a capella version by Pentatonix is beautiful.
Midwest Mama
Blue Christmas by Elvis.
Also, All I Want for Christmas is You by Vince Vance & The Valiants. Its awesomely cheesy 1980’s video makes it even better.
In the Pink
Have you checked out the albums by Brian Setzer? his Yabba Dabba Yuletime (on CMA awards recently) and lots of other “standards” done in a modern way …
Anonymous
The First Noel. I also cop to owning the ‘N Sync version of this
CherryScary
Carol of the Bells.
Also lots of Manheim Steamroller and Trans-Siberian Orchestra
Care
Silent Night is my absolute favorite – especially when sung in German. Carol of the Bells ranks pretty high up there too.
I hate the Christmas Shoes song because it instantly makes me cry – the worst is when a little kid helps sing it live. It is a wonderful reminder of how fortunate many of us are during a season of consumption, but it just breaks my heart.
Mpls
I like the Silent Night/Night of Silence (written as a complimentary companion song to Silent Night) combination round.
Basically Sash
I got really into Christmas Night in Harlem last year. Now I have three versions and they’re all awesome!
Anonymous
“Oh Come All Ye Faithful” for the “Sing, choirs of angels” descant.
Clementine
Yes! This is a fabulous descant!
…I am singing it now, by myself, in my kitchen with no other music playing. My dog is looking at me like I have fully lost it.
anon
I heart sing-along Messiah concerts.
JJ
Yes! My church always does a sing-along to Handel’s Messiah chorus for Easter service. It’s my absolute favorite.
Senior Attorney
I’m going to the one with the L.A. Master Chorale on Wednesday. Can’t wait!
Celia
I would love to be your LAMC buddy!
cbackson
“O Come, O Come Emmanuel” (although as an early music pedant, I feel like I have to point out that it’s an Advent carol, not a Christmas carol) and “Noel Nouvelet” (but with the English lyrics).
In the Pink
Ooooh, and I Wonder as I Wander …
X
The First Noel and Feliz Navidad
X
I also love…
Christmas in Hollis by Run-DMC,
2000 Miles by The Pretenders
Christmas, Baby Please Come Home by U2
Christmas Wrapping by The Waitresses
Last Christmas by Wham
Mpls
He Came Down (that we may have love)
My church (Midwest, Catholic) used to do that song as part of the pre-Mass concert when we were growing up. I have never heard it anywhere else (much less on the radio). Apparently it is from Cameroon.
Pep
Adeste Fideles, and O Holy Night for religious songs. Sleigh Ride for a traditional song.
But Christmas Wrapping is my guilty pleasure. :-) It’s not the holiday season until I hear it on the radio for the first time.
need a new moniker
the holly and the ivy, low how a rose e’er blooming, we three kinds, o come o come emmanuel, and king wenceslas
Random
Has anyone done one of those ancestry dot com kits? I was thinking of getting it as a gift for some family members and was wondering if anyone has had experience with this or something similar. Not 23 and me though – interest is in the geographic/historical, not medical. TIA!
Brit
Both my aunt and my one friend have done them for their families – it’s been pretty cool to hear about the things they find, but it also sounds like it’s a bit time consuming. I think they both went through ancestry and didn’t have any negative things to say about it.
Anon
My mom is addicted to this stuff and has even traced my husbands and brother-in-laws families. A lot of our family members really enjoyed seeing all the stuff she uncovered. I think it is a much “safer” gift than something like 23 and me.
Anonymous
I disagree. 23 and me does not reveal a bunch of tragic medical diagnoses you are going to develop. It is simply identifying some risk factors and genetic traits. Like I can smell asparagus in my pee (!) and have a slightly higher risk of developing diabetes and restless legs syndrome AND…. it tells me all of my ancestry stuff too.
You guys misunderstand what 23andMe tells you. Too bad. It’s interesting and useful too.
And maybe I eat slightly better…. occasionally…. because I know my risk of developing diabetes is a little bit higher. And I like knowing that.
TXLawyer
Along the lines of last week’s post about financial goals- do y’all have health/well-being goals for the new year? Or health/well-being goals met this year? Looking for some inspiration.
Anonymous
Next year: floss every day
This year: “gave up” bread and beer. Both I kept up until my wedding in October. I’ve upped my bread intake a bit since (still hands off things like basket of dinner rolls). Beer I think I am over forever. Don’t see myself drinking it again.
Anon
I made flossing every day a new years resolution a few years back and I am so glad I did.
anon
Goals for next year:
Get all the way through the 30-Day Shred (previous best is day 21)
Get my splits back after losing them when I had my kid several years ago
Reduce soda consumption to 2 small servings per week
Actually go rock climbing more than twice a year
Run my first road race in celebration of a milestone birthday
stressed is desserts spelled backwards
My health/well being goals for 2016 is to reduce stress. I plan to accomplish this by:
1. doing yoga at least once a week
2. getting more sleep during the week (fewer nights of “just one more episode” will give me the time that I need to get more sleep)
3. leaving work at work as much as possible. I’d much prefer to work a late night in the office than have to bring work home at night.
Anonymous
Drinking less, as both a past and future goal. I was doing pretty well in the first half of this year. Then I went on vacation (music festival), came back to a bunch of beer and wine tastings in the summer/fall, then a round of weddings and engagements, and “suddenly” I found myself in the habit of drinking enough to get drunk every weekend. And now it’s holiday party season. So I’m recommitting myself to keeping the alcohol consumption in check, even at parties and when I have to tolerate my family.
August
Start meditating daily.
Go to yoga class at least once a week.
Get regular 30 mins physical activity per day.
Establish a OBGYN
Senior Attorney
I have had way too much fun with food and alcohol this year and my gym time has slipped (the perils of a new relationship!). So for 2016 I want to tighten things up a bit.
LOVE the idea of giving up bread for the year. I think I’ll steal that one.
Also:
Some form of exercise at least four times a week (cycling, trainer session, or boot camp class). Gentleman Friend and I are planning a nine-day bicycling trip in Sicily in the fall and I need to be in top shape!
CKB
I ran my 2nd half marathon this year and I ran a 5k in less than 28 minutes for a pb.
Next year I want to run 2 half marathons, get a new pb in the 10k, deadlift and squat my weight (I’m pretty close on the deadlift) and my long shot goal is to do an unassisted chin up.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
More of a mental well-being goal. I have finally decided to cut my mother out of my life basically completely. It is impossible to have anything resembling a normal conversation with her, and she has consistently given poor advice/tried to manipulate me to make poor decisions throughout my life. Anytime I try to talk to her about anything meaningful (career, finances, my marriage, etc.), or do anything against what she thinks i should do, she will yell at me, my husband, and/or my father. She is rude to my husband. She is mean to my father. She does not keep private information private. She is selfish and considers only herself in making misguided, trouble-inducing decisions. Anytime I do try to have substantive interactions with her results in me crying, my father yelling at her for being ridiculous, and my husband getting annoyed with me for continuing to try to deal with her.
This was prompted by her completely ruining our Thanksgiving with absurd behavior both in public (think having a complete meltdown at a mall and everyone staring) and at home (silent treatment, screaming at us, breaking numerous expensive glass items I (used to) own). I am still not completely emotionally recovered from it. I say “basically completely” because I have a close relationship with my father, so I will need to interact with her to some extent to be able to see him.
rough
Sorry you have such a challenging family life. It sounds incredibly draining and stressful.
Anonymous Associate
Luckily everything else is fine! Good relationship with my father, very chill and awesome relationship with my husband, small group of low drama friends, keep in contact with cousins, great in-laws.
I still feel like a jerkface for making this decision, but in the end it will be a win win for everyone. She is the only person I have raised my voice with in recent memory….
Consumable gift ideas
My in laws are trying to get rid of all their extra stuff so need a gift that will not add to their clutter. Experience gifts are out because they don’t like to go out. They have all the kindle and netflix subscriptions. They don’t cook much so fancy olive oils, etc. wouldn’t work. To the extent they eat in, it’s a lot of ready to heat type foods. In the past, I’ve done fancy chocolates and soaps but would like to deviate. Please don’t say Harry and David pears. That one was a big dud the one year we did it. What
anon
We just got a cheese basket from igourmet dot com that is very tasty. For the in-laws we have done LobsterGram and Omaha Steaks–lots of options that require only simple cooking or are ready to heat.
Meg Murry
Nice coffee or teas? Or upgrade a current item and help them get rid of the old? For instance, for a big gift (perhaps between multiple siblings?) you could upgrade their TV and have it installed on a wall mount, then take the old one to the electronics recycling for them, and perhaps the TV stand as well? Along the same idea, replace their towels and take the old ones to Goodwill/a textile recycling place? Anything else that could be replaced – rugs, a couch slipcover, etc?
Anonymous
the tile app dot com — for those inevitable lost keys. Might not be enough for the whole gift — but it is something. And it won’t really add to clutter.
Another anonymous judge
What about a donation in their name to a cause/charity close to their hearts?
In the Pink
+1,000,000 (also great for children to start a sense of gratitude, thankfulness, and giving)
CHJ
My go-to in this situation is Williams Sonoma frozen croissants. They have a bunch of varieties and they are really good. My relatives have said they like receiving them because they can make them on Christmas morning, especially if they are hosting.
OCAssociate
These are so delicious and really simple to bake. I love having them in the freezer.
Anonymous
Trader Joe’s also has excellent frozen croissants and I bet they cost a lot less than Williams Sonoma.
Senior Attorney
+1
Anxiety
For most of my life, I have struggled with generalized anxiety disorder/panic disorder. I was on medication for several years (Lexapro), but my doctor advised me that I could take it while pregnant. At my doctor’s recommendation, I came off of the Lexapro a few months ago when my husband and I began TTC. Since that time, I have really struggled with my anxiety, and I have had multiple panic attacks. I started therapy a few months ago, but have not noticed a significant difference in my anxiety levels. Does anyone have any tips for managing anxiety? Has anyone taken an SSRI during pregnancy?
anon
Have previously suffered serious episodic depression with some anxiety. did not take an SSRI during pregnancy – there is a study out today that links it to a slightly increased risk re autism. What does help me is maintaining good nutrition especially enough Omega 3 and Vitamin D and well as enough time outdoors in the sunshine, and regular exercise (yoga works for me – YMMV). All of these things you can continue throughout pregnancy. I think especially regular phyiscal exercise and getting outdoors to walk in nature even if only 10-20 minutes a day is enormously helpful.
Anonymous
Great suggestions. Agree to all…. walking outside in the sun is a 2 for 1. Exercise + sunshine = improved mental health.
Look at websites for mindfulness techniques and see if you can start learning very very basic breathing/relaxation techniques. There are tons of free resources online for this.
And for what it’s worth…. the stress response when you are anxious is very rough hormonally on your body, and potentially on the baby. Stay in close contact with your counselor and OB and be very ready to go back on Lexapro. The stress on the baby while off it may be worse than any tiny risk for the Lexapro.
anon0321
I also have suffered from depression & anxiety my whole life and have taken a light dose of prozac for for the last 15 years or so. When I was TTC, I stopped taking them for fear of issues popping up (specifically because of an early report on the autism article listed above). FWIW, to my complete surprise, I had zero depression & anxiety issues when I was pregnant. My episodes are tied to hormone swings & I guess being pregnant leveled me off (also cleared up my skin for the first time since I was 9 years old). Before you get tooo jealous, my pregnancy was riddled with other issues. … but was very surprised about this part, since I really expected to have major problems during & post partum. Just wanted to put it out there that once you get pregnant, things might even out a bit.
Going into it though I had decided that if I felt suicidal at all (or even if my symptoms veered into severe), I would go back on the drugs- as my dr said, the worst birth defect you can have, is death of the mother or child. In the end, I was able to power through through mid-level depression & anxiety for a year or two with the help of my husband, therapy & walking.
Anon
I was on Lexapro for 9 months and went off at the beginning of the year when we were TTC. Luckily I did pretty well off of it, but have had some anxiety issues while I have been pregnant. It has, overall, been pretty good though. I think the no alcohol has been helping, and I have been taking a DHA supplement, which is also supposed to help with mood issues. Personally, I was prepared to go back on the Lexapro if necessary, and I know a couple people who took it while pregnant with no issues. It’s a cost-benefit analysis and having multiple panic attacks isn’t healthy while pregnant. The studies regarding the risks of taking Lexapro while pregnant are inconclusive (like pretty much every other study about pregnancy), so I would talk to your doctor (and get a second opinion if your first doctor isn’t supportive).
Anonymous
I’m on lexapro, but also wellbutrin and buspar for anxiety and depression. I’m TTC too. I asked my psychiatrist about being / staying on the meds during pregnancy and he told me that (in his view) it was more harmful for me to come off them than to have me go through depression / anxiety attacks while pregnant and subjecting the baby to that. I’ve been working with my gynecologist too to get on the correct meds so that I (hopefully) won’t have a rough go before, during or after pregnancy.
krb
I took zoloft all through my pregnancy, and it was totally fine. Worth the risk, whatever it might have been, because hormones flying around like a roller coaster are not my friends.
Anon E
Hi ladies,
For those of you who have children, have you ever considered becoming a stay at home mom? What was your internal dialogue like? Why did you eventually decide to continue working? I ask because I am a first time mom to an 8 month old, and I am a big law associate. My husband is an even bigger law associate, and I’m starting to wonder if I should seriously consider staying at home. I know I need to think about both short and long term benefits/consequences, but just wondering what kinds of discussions you may have had with yourself and/or your spouse if you ever considered staying at home.
anonymous
Not a mom, but I think I’d start by asking yourself if you *want* to stay home. You didn’t mention that in your post. I’d start there.
Anon E
Good point. I feel like an ideal situation would be working 3 days a week from 9-5! But then what job actually allows that and also pays enough to cover the cost of the nanny?!
anon
This is what I do and I love it!
Anon E
anon at 1:08pm – what do you do???
Anonymous
I’m a CPA. I work on a contract basis.
anon (
Most daycare centres have a part time option. You mentionned your MIL being involved. You could even look at 2 days at a centre and one day with MIL. Once kids get around 1-2 yrs old I find they really enjoy being with other kids whether at daycare or play groups.
Wildkitten
If you are both working the cost of the nanny comes out of both salaries.
Anon E
Wildkitten, if I wasn’t working, then we would not use a nanny, so that’s how I look at it
Senior Attorney
That’s a shortsighted way to look at it. First, obviously if your husband weren’t working you wouldn’t use a nanny, either. So it’s just plain sexist to mentally take the cost of the nanny out of your salary.
Second, when you work you are investing in your career, which will span many years and reap many benefits to the whole family. Daycare is a temporary expense that will allow you to stay in the workforce while your kids are little. If you drop out to stay home, you will never get that income, those retirement contributions, or that seniority back. The cost of the nanny pales in comparison to what you’re giving up.
Anon E
Senior Attorney, obviously if my husband wasn’t working we wouldn’t use a nanny, but the person in question of not working is me, not my husband, so that’s how I have to look at it if I’m considering not working or taking a salary cut b/c his salary isn’t going to be affected whether or not I stay at home
Wildkitten
Nope. That’s how you’re choosing to look at it. That’s not how you have to look at it.
Anon E
Wildkitten, I don’t get it? How do I look at it then if the question is whether I should stay at home or continue to work? And if I work, then we get a nanny, if I don’t work, then we don’t get a nanny.
Senior Attorney
The point is, your job does not have to cover the cost of the nanny. You staying in the workforce has value to the family above and beyond the net income you are bringing in at any given time. I feel like you’re being purposely obtuse here.
anon
This has been discussed a few times. I think the general take away has been that being a SAHM can work if that is truly what you want. You will not be happy at home if you are running away from a bad job situation – and that can include a job you love but with hours/commute that make it hard to have balance. Definitely read “Lean In’ by Sheryl Sandberg re economic value of continuing to work. Unless you are passionate about being a SAHM then the more fulfilling path may be new job or part time work in current job or some type of meaningful WAHM position (e.g. legal research not avon lady)
Anon E
Can you link me to past discussions?
anon
google search this site’s name + SAHM/ staying home/ not working etc and it should come up
anonymous
I kicked around the idea of staying home when my kid got to mid-elementary grades and my job got more demanding and I felt like I wasn’t able to give the kid what she needed. I was surprised by my husband’s total resistance to my being a SAHM. He thinks SAHMs are financial parasites and also wants both of us to be employed in case one becomes disabled. The second reason makes sense, but the first just makes me angry because it completely discounts the value of everything I do as the default parent and runner of the household, as if the only contribution of value I make to our family is my salary.
Anon E
So you decided not to be a SAHM because of your husband’s resistance?
My husband supports whatever I want to do, and he actually thinks I would be happier being a SAHM. I don’t know, I don’t love my job, never have never will. But I don’t know that being a 100% SAHM would be fulfilling. I think the fact that I don’t love my job definitely contributes to my feelings of wanting to make a change, but I honestly don’t know what job I could do that I would “love” and make enough $ to justify working (as in, covering the cost of childcare and having X amount more to make working worth it). I hate having to log on after 5PM. We already have so much help (nanny does laundry and light cleaning, mother in law cooks a couple times a week and does light cleaning), we order everything from amazon so we don’t have to go shopping, etc. We hardly have time to spend together b/c we’re so exhausted all of the time. I just wonder if there’s an easier way out there.
anon
I think you need a new job, not necessarily to stay at home. I’m a lawyer with a small govt dept – yes the work isn’t glamourous but it’s interesting and I leave at 5pm and pick up my son at the onsite daycare. We are in a small city so it’s only a 10 min drive home. I don’t work on evenings or weekends. I know I am lucky but those jobs are out there.
Anon E
anon, not to be super nosy about your financial situation, but do you feel that you work enough to make a substantial amount more than childcare?
Anonymous
Remember that you aren’t just considering whether you make a substantial amount more than childcare now, but whether you will over the long haul. Even taking a couple of years off can have a major impact on your future salary potential. I feel like even if it’s almost a wash for the first five years, the long-term salary and job goodwill makes the childcare costs worth it.
anon
childcare eats up about one third of my take home pay but i also have a defined benefit pension plan as well. I would work even if I was just breaking even. Working is first about money to live, but that’s not the only reason to work. I’m a better mom when I’m a more fulfilled person. Would really encourage you to read Lean In on the economic value of working being more than just the take home pay during years when you are paying for daycare.
Different Poster
Another poster. My after-tax take-home is marginally higher than our childcare costs (like hundreds, not thousands of dollars different). I do not have health insurance, but do contribute to an employer sponsored 401k with a match. It is a true part time job – 20 hrs./week. I left biglaw litigation for this job.
The job is currently “worth it” for a few reasons. First, even if my salary doesn’t really enable us to “save” cash, I’m able to contribute to retirement and obtain a company sponsored match. Second, I knew I was ready to leave BigLaw, but I wasn’t sure if I was ready to SAH or just needed a break from late daycare pick-ups, evening log-ins, and weekend marathon work sessions. A few years into this job, and I feel like I have a much better idea of what it would be like – as I am home with the kids during the afternoon and evening.
Personally, I’m glad I didn’t go straight to staying at home, as it would have been a band-aid to get out of an ill-fitting job. I think I would have pushed to get back into the work force. Also, after I had my second, I was really happy to be working (at a much slower pace). I struggled to be home with a preschooler and an infant. However, as my second gets a little older, I’m probably going to re-vist the decision when my youngest reaches the young preschool stage.
I’m not really sure how to explain this – but I’m glad I separated the decision as to whether I really wanted to stay home and whether I just needed to get out of my biglaw job. I feel like if I had stopped working when my youngest was your age, either I would have been out for the long-haul – and possibly a little resentful when I had 2 under 2 at home, or I would have jumped right back into it. Being home more with two really young kids helped me realize that my sweet spot for staying home is when the kids are a little older.
anonymous at 12:37
I never got as far as making a decision about what I really wanted because my husband was 100% clear that my being a SAHM wasn’t an option he was remotely willing to consider. It wouldn’t be right for either one of us to make a unilateral decision to quit working without the other’s full support. I am not sure I would really be able to hack it as a SAHM, though, which might be why I didn’t push more on the discussion.
For you, I agree with anon at 12:51 that it sounds like what you want is a job that ends at 5:00 p.m., not to quit working outside the home.
Anon E
Different Poster – I totally get it. And thanks to you and everyone who have provided some insight. Gonna talk to my husband about all of this stuff when we have time. I just feel frustrated right now b/c we’re both insane at work (we are both transactional attys so year end is awful) and I feel like I want to spend more time with my daughter. I don’t necessarily miss her when I am in the office, but I would like to see her more than I am currently seeing her, or when I do see her, I would like to feel less stressed and more able to focus on her rather than thinking the million things I have to do when she goes down for her nap or when she goes to sleep. I think I will also have more free time when I am done breast feeding (would like to go for a year, so 4 more months to go). It’s a huge time suck so maybe I will feel better about everything when I am done with that.
I need to think about all of this more obviously but already I think you guys are right in that quitting is just going to be a band aid. The problem is that I don’t love my job and I don’t want to have to work much past 5PM.
Different Poster
Sounds like you have a good game plan! What really worked for me when I was in your shoes was setting deadlines. I contacted a career coach by X date, Y months later I wante dto have applied to at least Z jobs, and probably – most important – I had a date on the calendar where – if nothing else came through – I would quit my job. My husband and I ran the numbers (and project ed out costs for kid2 b/c we knew we wanted a second), and it gave me a great framework. I knew how low of a salary I could take when looking for new jobs, and having firm dates took the “nothing is ever going to change” feeling of despair I got whenever I worked a long, non-stop weekend.
Anon too
if your daughter is 8 months and nursing well you may be able to get down to nursing in the morning, pumping once at work, nursing before her bedtime and then pump before you go to bed. I was on a similar schedule around that time.
Anon E
Anon too, thank you, I have been wondering when/if I can cut back my pumping sessions. So far I am nursing in the morning and before her bedtime, and then I pump 3 times at work and then once before I go to bed. So when I go into the office I pump 4 times a day (effing time suck). When I work from home, I BF her (which is still a time suck) throughout the day and then pump once before I go to bed. My issue is that I don’t have much of a freezer stash, so I’m basically pumping enough to give to her for the next day. Not sure what will happen to my supply if I pump less, ugh.
anon
I thought I’d want to stay home with my twins when they were born but I was practically running out the door when they were 8 weeks old (I was on bed rest for 6 weeks). I’m working 20-30 hours per week and it’s been a perfect balance for our family. It’s the best of both worlds.
I thought that working full-time would be too much (and it really would’ve been) so part-time is perfect.
If you’re used to working hard and long hours you may find being at home to be extremely boring and depressing. From what I’ve seen with friends and myself: if you think you probably won’t enjoy staying home, then you most likely won’t enjoy it. I thought I might have that magical “I love these babies so much that I can never leave their side feeling”. And don’t get me wrong, I love them to death but I am REALLY ready for work on Monday morning.
Anon E
oh my, i can’t imagine with twins it’s probably crazy! what do you do that allows you to work 20-30 hours a week?
i loved being on maternity leave with my daughter. I took 6 months off – of course the first few months were freaking hard and I was NOT loving it, but we turned a corner around 4 months and I freaking love every second with her. I am actually on a reduced schedule at my law firm but I still find it to be too much since now I just don’t work for a few hours in the early evening to hang with my daughter but then I have to log on after and then pump and get ready for the next day so going to bed late every day and just feeling like I have no “me” time. Coupled with my husband’s insane hours (regularly billing 2500ish hours) I just feel like we have no time for life!
anon
I’m a CPA. I do contract tax work for the company I worked for before I got pregnant. Are you able to do contract work as an attorney? I would think so! Especially considering you have a big law background.
If you had 6 months off you’ve had a pretty good taste of what staying home is like. But yes, I think with twins it was just too much baby time for me. When the babies were really little, like 3-4 months (now 9 months) I didn’t eat all day because they didn’t let me…that’s how busy it was. Everyone always asks me how I lost the baby weight so fast….it’s called the no eat crabby baby diet.
anon
My (single) baby put me on this diet too! I went back to work much earlier than planned because I needed the freedom to eat and go to the bathroom.
TigerMom
Thanks for your post! I, too, was very ready to get back to work at the 10 week mark but when I said this to people I got the “selfish mom” slapback from friends and family. So I stopped talking about it.
I am back to work full-time. Although it is hectic, I think I am a better mom for juggling these two given my personality, and there were strains on the marriage regarding division of labour, we have worked out a system that I am generally happy with.
Anon E
oh gosh, that’s awful that people told you you were selfish b/c you wanted to go back to work, ugh!
anon0321
Very late to the party, but this is something I’ve been thinking a lot about & is so deeply personal to each person’s personality & situation-
I was planning on taking 6 mo off, but after 6 weeks, I’m ready to go back. I just bit the bullet & asked my boss to work from home (pre-accepting the job I had asked to do this & he had said no). I figured it was worth the risk to re-ask & he said yes!!! I make a very good salary, but after maxing out on retirement, and paying for other benefits, childcare & rent, I wouldn’t have much salary left if I were living off of just my salary (thankfully my husband is big-law so we have much more than we need).
Reasons I want to go back: A lot of my identify & self-worth is tied into my job (both for me personally & socially). After years of struggling to find something that pays well & is meaningful to me– I finally found something I like and am gaining traction in it & I’m not willing to let that go yet (I have a law degree & work in a law related field, but you don’t strictly need a JD to do my job- although most of my co-workers do have one). I’m an introvert & I think being home with a baby 24/7 would drive me bonkers (because I’m not the type to go find play groups & other moms- but love passively interacting with co-workers). It allays the fear of one of us being laid off or incapacitated in some way (or wanting to take a job opp that would be good long term, but not as well paid as big-law short term). Plus, even in a very loving & egalitarian relationship where you actively try not to let an imbalance pop up, I fear that it would & that my husband & I would have less & less in common. I also (personally) want to be the kind of woman that I want my daughter to grow up to be– someone who puts family but first, but can still kick butt at work and us that as leverage to demand a work environment that makes that easier.
Reasons not to go back: My hrs are ok, but my commute is beyond terrible (2.5+ hrs a day). Work, as much as I love it, can get boring and stressful at times. I’d miss my baby for sure. When else do you get 6 months off!?! And finally, being a mom is hard ya’ll– it’s tiring and stressful and demanding in it’s own very unique way and balancing that with full time work would not be at all easy- I seriously look at my co-workers who are moms and have no idea how they look so professional & awake every day (coffee?).
Seriously, I think big law people thing it’s big law or bust (I see this with my husband & his co-workers all the time), but instead of off-ramping entirely (& having trouble re-entering), if you can consider going in a slower lane (less stressful job in a non-big law arena, part time, work from home, other options) until you get through the years you’d want to be at home with your daughter, then re-ramp up. If the alternative is quitting, you might as well ask. Both my mother & law & mother did this & they both had very satisfying post-kid careers where they are currently at the top of their professions.
Anonymous
I don’t have kids yet but I plan to stay home for awhile. I’m not fulfilled by my job at all (law firm private practice), either in terms of big picture or day to day happiness. I love the idea of a kid having a stay at home parent (both my parents worked but my mom had a super flex schedule/took some unpaid leave so I never went to daycare), and because my husband loves his job, is great at it, and has phenomenal job security, it makes sense for me to quit. We are lucky to live in a very cheap area where we can live comfortably on his salary (forever, if necessary).
I will say I don’t want to stay home forever. I’ll probably start doing some part time contract legal work after about six months to a year to earn some money, and I also have plans already in motion (that I will get more serious about after baby) to transition to a non-legal career. New career does not pay great but it pays more than SAHM and would give me a lot more flexibility and allow me to care for baby and home much more.
Amelia Bedelia
I posted this to both sites, because I’m not sure which one you are checking:
I thought about it for a few seconds. I also considered going part-time. My husband was a BIG fan of me going part-time or quitting altogether. In the end, I pulled back a bit from work (not billing crazy hours), but am still “full-time.”
We decided this was the right answer for our family because:
1. I truly love my job. My kiddo is getting bigger and some days I really want to stay home with her, but honestly, i love what I do and i love the people with whom I work. I would miss it so much if I quit. I am also SUPER competitive and know that if I went “part-time” in name, I’d work far more than that in actuality. And I don’t relish the idea of working for free.
2. I recently made partner and going part-time would seriously derail the trajectory of my career. As it is, I suffer from working “less” but I am still full-time, so I’m growing as a partner — just not as quickly as I had previously intended. But I decided I’m okay (most days) with taking longer and making less for a little while to keep myself fully in the mix at home and at work.
3. My husband discovered that he was so “for” me staying home not because he thought women should stay home, but because he really believed that one parent needed to be more “present” in the day to day. He was raised in a lower income family and his parents worked several jobs just to put food on the table. So, he felt they were never around. He didn’t want that for our kids. But we discussed it and he actually was pleased when I suggested he go part-time or take a few years off. He honestly never considered it an option. He is part of a minority group that prizes men working and being the breadwinner and has a lot of dead-beat dads. He somehow thought I would consider him a deadbeat if he took time off. We discussed it and I shared that I felt that was the best gift to give his children if he could do it — because raising your kids while pushing pause on your career is the opposite of dead beat dad! So, he works 55% now and loves it.
4. realistically, it made more sense for my husband to take a step back than it does for me to do so because I outearn him by double. Also, he is in a field where reducing one’s schedule for several years doesn’t negatively impact his growth trajectory.
5. we live in a HCOL area and, honestly, we could not maintain our current lifestyle if I quit work. And that was important to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be, but it is.
6. I don’t love the day to day of being at home. I don’t love cooking or organising or cleaning. And I’m not the type of person who can outsource when I stay at home. So, husband does most of cooking and we still outsource cleaning. it works well for both of us.
Anon too
just wanted to add a +1 for putting dads into the stay at home/work less mix. My DH took a year off (unpaid) after each of our kids were born. We’re in Canada so I took year one, he took year two on each kid. He will be working 80% when he goes back. Our next door neighbours are a doctor (her) and a structural chemist (him) – he is now a SAHD by choice.
Anon too
also – maybe Kat could start a Corpor*tteDad for those DHs who are changing their work schedules to make family life work. My DH would love have somewhere to talk about SAHD/invovled dad stuff with.
moss
I never even considered staying home. Only being “Mommy” is not enough for me. I have a 9-5 that does not require overtime. Logging on in the evenings would make me miserable. I agree with those above who advise you to consider switching jobs, not leaving the work force entirely.
Wow
Absolutely not. I loved my long maternity leave (6 months) but I was ready to go back to work and never shed a tear dropping my son off at daycare. I love him to death but that’s not me at all.
I only know two SAHMs, personally. My sister and my SIL. My sister is an immensely happy SAHM. She had a fulfilling (but very demanding) career and became a mom later in life, so she felt that she had already experienced the career bit and was ready to be a full time mom. Now that her kids are a little older and in school, she is devoting her time to exercise, reading, fashion, volunteering, and activities that keep her busy and fulfilled.
My SIL became a SAHM because she hated her job and didn’t want to go back. She is very insecure about herself and constantly brags about everything she teaches her daughter and is just generally insufferable. She is also always worried about expenses bc they live in a HCOL.
I would only do it if you really really want to do it. It’s a very hard “job” and sadly, one that our society doesn’t place a whole lot of value on. There is a huge financial bent, obviously. Read Lean In if you haven’t already.
Anonymous
To offer a different perspective, I know a lot of SAHMs, even ones with school-age kids, who are happy. I’d say they all have two things in common: 1) they do some kind of volunteer or (very) part time work. It may not bring in a lot of money, but it gives them a major interest and connections outside of their kids, husband and appearance, and in many cases is a way to use their brain. 2) they enjoy other aspects of being at home besides kids, such as cooking or decorating (I don’t think anyone enjoys cleaning but maybe some do).
Wildkitten
I’d rather clean than cook. Anecdata.
Anon E
I actually love cleaning, ha!
Anonymous
DH and I both make decent incomes. We recently moved from our “starter” to hopefully what will be our “forever” home and we chose a house that we could afford if one of us wasn’t working (or we were both working but at lower incomes). We are both at about the same point in our careers, and we work really hard. We can envision one of us losing our jobs in a financial downturn (we have both very highly paid relative to our peers at our companies), one of us burning out, or one of us wanting to step back into a lower paying role. I have one little one and another on the way and I considered SAHM but only briefly. What I spent more time doing was carefully choosing the role I am in now–I work from a home based office with some travel. I am east coast but my office is west coast, which means I operate on a late start/late night type schedule, so I can drop the little off at daycare at 9:30 and then start working. My husband leaves at 7am, is in his office by 7:30, and can pick up the little one between 4 and 4:30 and get 4 hours of quality time in. After bedtime, we both do a little work, possibly watch a TV show, then are passed out at 10:30.
With #2 on the way, we are getting an au pair and sending #1 to preschool part time.
Anonymous
I would also add here that I grew up with a SAHM. what it meant was that my dad worked really, really hard. I saw mom 24/7 and dad on weekends only (when he wasn’t traveling) since he left at 6am and came home at 9pm. DH and I didn’t want our family to be that one-sided, where one parent got so much face time they got sick of the kids, while the other was starving for kid time.
My father, who is now retired, ALWAYS comments to me and DH that we have “the dream setup.” He really regrets not being around when we were little. ON the flip side, my mom thinks my not staying home is The End of the World. PS they are divorced now (late in life).
Low Risk Drinking
I know that we often talk about how much alcohol is acceptable/normal for a woman, and I recently came across this. I don’t think it’s bee discussed before but, if it has I apologize. It called “low risk drinking”, essentially what amount of alcohol is less likely to cause alcohol related issues for both men and women. For women low risk drinking is considered no more than 3 drinks at one time and 7 drinks in one week. I will post the link as a comment so it does not get lost in moderation. I was surprised at how little this seemed to me, but if it’s backed up with data, then I suppose you can’t argue with it much. I do like this approach to alcohol as opposed to an all or nothing approach.
Low Risk Drinking
http://rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih.gov/How-much-is-too-much/Is-your-drinking-pattern-risky/Whats-Low-Risk-Drinking.aspx
Wildkitten
I would like them to enumerate which risks are lower. Certainly not alcoholism – three is plenty to trigger problems there. I wouldn’t drive after 3 drinks. Cancer and heart disease? Obesity?
Anonymous
On the recent “how much do you drink” thread, many people mentioned the idea that even a moderate amount of drinks increases your risk for many health problems. It’s so interesting to me that many women who would never dream of smoking or eating chocolate cake three times a day think nothing of binge drinking week in, week out.
anon
Completely agree. I know so many people that are like “I workout 6 days a week and compete in triathalons. I also get completely tanked every weekend.” Not that they say that but you know what I mean….
emeralds
I work out a lot and eat really healthy food…and also, eat chocolate cake and get too drunk to drive at least once a week. http://i.imgur.com/7fcnooH.png
Shopaholic
+1 – except I don’t work out as much as I should.
anonymama
I thought there are studies that show a moderate amount of drinking is actually correlated to a lower risk of many health problems (particularly lower cholesterol levels, lower risk of heart disease, lower mortality rate). And three drinks over the course of an evening (occasionally) does not seem excessive, even if you wouldn’t drive (e.g., three drinks over a 3 hour period: one at cocktail hour, a glass of wine with dinner, another glass of wine after dinner).
Anona
The evidence that drinking regularly will give me some type of disease is debatable and does not compare to the proven risks of smoking. Ditto chocolate cake. If you can reference some source that is not listed, by all means , please share.
Vacation Etiquette
I am moving to a new biglaw firm after the new years and am wondering when it would be ok to go on vacation (it would be something like taking Thursday, Friday, Monday and Tuesday off)? I realize that this will mostly be a know your office type situation but wanted to get your thoughts on any general rules of thumb. When I moved to my current firm I went a whole year without taking a vacation and it just felt silly (and totally unappreciated) in retrospect.
Anonymous
Thurs-Fri-Mon-Tues is a lot. It’s 80% of a full week’s vacation, and will probably even be thought of us as worse, because you’re taking time off in two separate weeks and for some reason that’s psychologically “worse” for a lot of people than taking off M-F. I wouldn’t hesitate to take a day off after a month or two, but for something that long, I’d say ideally a year, minimum six months. Sorry. But it is what it is. Vacation in Big Law is tough.
ace
I wouldn’t take a week until 0.5-1 year in. It also depends on the timing — e.g., if you start around the first of the year, I might take a week in August or July (as it seems to be common practice and socially acceptable to do so).
To the point made above, I agree that splitting 4 days of vacation across two weeks is going to be more challenging than doing one full week. I think it’s mentally a lot easier to track “Ok, Susie is out the week of the 14th” than “ok, Susie leaves on the 17th but will be back on X… but wait, is she back on Wednesday or Thursday?”
ace
Should have added – I moved from one biglaw shop to another a few years ago, so went through this myself.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Personally, I would wait about 3 months or so to mention taking vacation (so that is probably putting your vacation about 4 months in so you can plan it). I disagree that vacation in BigLaw is tough. I take between three and four weeks of vacay a year (with one of those being a full two weeker), and generally get left alone on vacation. You just need to plan as well as possible (go when things are likely not going to be busy) and clearly communicate to your teams when you’ll be out, in advance and then with reminders.
Anonymous
You are very lucky. I have probably 100 friends & colleagues in various Big Law firms and 2 weeks is unheard of unless it’s the honeymoon. I got a lot of grief for averaging two one-week vacations per year. You have found a great job, but most associates in Big Law struggle to take vacation and use a small fraction of what they are allotted (ATL has done surveys about this and people take a shockingly small amount on average).
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Interesting, but I find it really sad, as taking breaks prevents burn-out etc. What I do is very normal at my firm. I guess this is a know-your-firm thing.
APC
It’s a know your firm/your group/your partners thing. I was very good about taking vacations. I’d probably wait until it was about 4 months in like someone said above. Is there a particular reason you are taking the vacation? If there was a wedding or some big event, you could use that as the reason why you need to take those particular days or you need those days at a certain time. Interestingly I saw taking Thurs-Tues as not as bad since you would only miss one weekend, but again, if you think it won’t be perceived well, can you just take Thurs/Fri and be back Monday? Or just take Fri/Mon? Some options.