Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Zip Trim Jacket

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This cotton/rayon/modal moto jacket comes in both regular sizes and plus sizes. I go back and forth with moto jackets, but this one seems graceful and elegant and edgy all at the same time. Note that it has front pockets and doesn’t require dry cleaning, just hand washing (which, if you’re careful, can mean the hand-wash cycle on your machine, of course). Right now, both versions are 40% off: The regular/petite is $130, down from $218, and the plus is $142, down from $238. NIC+ZOE Zip Trim Jacket

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]

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  1. Anonymous :

    Are other readers seeing an annoying sidebar with buttons for various social media platforms on the side of this page? It is distracting and sometimes covers the text depending on the size of the browser window. I am assuming it is a new feature of this s i t e because I am only seeing it here.

    • Yes.

    • anonshmanon :

      on my computer, the buttons are fine, but on my phone screen they eat a lot of space.

      • Yes, they are VERY annoying on my Iphone, tho on my MacBook Air, they are kind of off to the left. I recomend Kat get rid of these or stick them on the top or on the right where there is MORE white space on the page, tho on my iphone, there is NOT that much space. I need a 7+ iphone or whatever it is called.

        I DO appreciate Kat’s attempt to keep this sight up to snuff, but really, the next thing we will see is a link to REDDIT, which from time to time let’s alot of strange p’osts in without MODERATION! FOOEY! If we are to retain a high quality sight, we MUST be able to screen out undesireable p’osts! YAY!!!!

    • lost academic :

      Yes, they are giant sharing buttons. I clicked one to test and then closed the window and got another pop-up from “shareaholic” thanking me….

    • Anonymous :

      Yes, it blocks text at my preferred browsing size. :(

    • Anonymous :

      I HATE these. Not expecting something so obnoxious from this particular s i t e…

    • also see it, also hate it.

    • Marshmallow :

      Yes and they are enormous.

    • Yup, and when I swipe and scroll down the threads, I hit them frequently by accident and activate them. Hate hate hate…. As it takes 1-2 minutes for some of them to load so I can close them to go back to the thread.

      Very obnoxious.

    • See them, hate them, and they block my comment box so I cannot see the beginning of what I am typing.

    • Yep. Hate it. Keep accidentally clicking it on my tablet.

    • Yep, on my iPad. Seriously annoying.

    • Is it looking better now? (Yes, it’s a new plugin we’re testing.) I believe I successfully turned it off on mobile (at least, I’m not seeing it on my iPhone or iPad.)

      • I’m on desktop. It’s still in the way of the comments, since the comments are aligned with the left side of the page. I’m viewing the site zoomed out about 80% now to shrink the size of the icons.

        Is there any way you can add a 8th button (e.g, “-” button) to minimize/collapse the string of icons so that there’s only a “+” symbol for those who want to expand it and actually use the buttons? Or dock it to the right side instead?

        • SO odd. What browser are you using, so we can troubleshoot? On my screen (Chrome, Windows10) they are very small and there’s a ton of white space buffer (like 200 pixels) before you even get to the comments.Thanks!

  2. Anonymous :

    This jacket is cute but only available in size medium. Boo.

    • It’s available in Petite Large too!

      The draping on this jacket is lovely but what’s up with the zipper detail? Am I seeing this right – there’s a zipper but no actual zipper pull? So it just looks like you lost the pull? So, so odd.

      Fortunately, the Olivia Moon knit blazer that I’m in love with is on sale! Going to pick up another couple of colors.

  3. Fossil with a blackberry :

    Any other blackberry users out there? Who have Sprint? Sprint doesn’t sell blackberries and I’d like to upgrade my one that is 2/3 years old. It is true that they wouldn’t support a new blackberry I buy directly from the company?

    I really love the QWERTY keys on the blackberry (which I really need for work e-mails, as I would appear to slur my words with an iPhone or be an autocorrect victim).

    • Anonymous :

      Sprint uses a specific type of communication protocol (antenna? I’m not sure of the technical term). As long as the new blackberry supports that format, Sprint should be able to support the blackberry. This generally means getting an unlocked phone (which can support any of the US networks). If the Blackberry site makes you buy a service provider-specific phone, then you’ll want to be sure to get the one for Sprint. If they don’t have an unlocked phone or one specific to Sprint, you are out of luck.

  4. Would you want to know?

    I had a woman who worked on my team for a few years in various roles- reporting to a peer of mine, reporting to me, and finally reporting to my direct report. I left the company and I know she was unhappy- I had given her a very neutral review, as did her new manager. Thing is, she was grossly overpaid for her role & performance. She is a bright woman who for a series of confounding reasons ended up making more than $40,000 more than her peers. In for a series of confounding reasons ended up making more than $40,000 more than her peers fact, she was making $10k more than her boss for a while, until I fought HR to make an exception and raise her boss’s salary.

    So, it’s not that this woman was ever really under performing, but she was under performing compared to her peers who are making significantly less. At every budget meeting I, as the head of department, would constantly be asked why she was still employed by the company given how expensive she was then given that we could replaced her and get an additional half an FT or so . I spend a lot of time coaching and mentoring her hoping that she would rise up and start to provide more value in line with her compensation, but it wasn’t really fair because it was asking a lot of someone who doesn’t have the skills really just not ready for that type of a senior role. I tried to move her into other departments with her skill set would be better utilized, but her salary was so high that she wouldn’t have to move in at a director level role, and not only did she not have the background or skill set for it, she wasn’t physically located in the office that role would be.

    So, I left the company and eventually about six months later she did too. This is what I wanted to happen- she wasn’t going to make the kind of money she wanted to make or get the seniority she wanted at our company given where she already was from a compensation & skill standpoint.

    However, we are still in the same industry and end up at a lot of the same conference as an events. Now that we are both away from that company and I’m not a manager of any kind over her, part of me wants to have the conversation about what was really going on so that she understands. Well we are both at the company, a HR strictly prohibited me from having this direct convo. The benefit I see is that she understands that she really was valuable and that her skill set is valuable and that at another company in another place hopefully where she is now, her skill set and compensation could be aligned. But at our company, she was in a role that did not align with her expectations for career growth and compensation, nor did she have the right skill set for what we needed at the time so that we can grow her to where she wanted to be don she was in a role that did not align with her expectations for career growth and compensation, nor did she have the right skill set for what we needed at the time so that we can grow her to where she wanted to be. Think, that she was a very very very strong attorney with some knowledge of finance but what we really needed with somebody that with a financial expert and had basic negotiating skills but no law degree necessary . If I could’ve on hired her I would have but she was hired by someone else and later transferred into my department with her pre-existing outrageous salary.

    would you say something? Nothing? If you were in this woman position would you want to know? I can’t decide if it would do me any good to know in hindsight so wanted to get a feel from the ladies on this board, particularly because there’s always a lot of talk about underpayment but not a whole lot of talk about overpayment . and frankly, she always felt like she wasn’t doing a good enough under me and the truth is that is the case and every six months or so I had to defend her job / comp or she’d be eliminated.

    • Anonymous :

      This is a great question for Ask A Manager dot org.

    • anonshmanon :

      I can’t think of any benefits to telling her after the fact. You risk looking like wanting to rub it in when it’s too late to use the advice to change anything.
      Specifically about the pay though, shouldn’t she have found out about her grossly unrealistic salary once she started job-hunting and find out her market-value?

    • lost academic :

      I agree with taking this to Ask a Manager, but it’s hard to follow a lot of your explanation of the situation. She’s underperforming, or she isn’t – that’s really unclear. It would also surprise me if she didn’t know most of the primary issues you’re trying to describe already.

      You also seem very caught up on her salary being higher than her peers and her supervisor. I think you might want to unpack your feelings around that because if I had to guess, the way you feel about that comparison is driving a lot of this. Your motivations seem a little suspect and if you were to start a conversation about her past employment, it would likely leak in, similar to the way it seems to be doing in your post.

      • Anonymous :

        Agreed. If she’s not asking for your advice/mentoring, why would you give your unsolicited opinion? Also, if your company gave her the higher salary and she turned out not to perform up to expectations, isn’t that on the company for betting wrong? I don’t see how any of this, unsolicited, would be helpful or wanted.

      • This. I would assume that if she left the company, she knew that it was a bad fit for her skills.

        Also, I’ll admit that I’m always happy when I hear that a woman has negotiated a higher salary than her peers.

    • Anonymous :

      If I were here I’d want to know! Have you ever had something baffling and upsetting explained to you after the fact in a way that makes the experience click into place? It’s like a giant weight lifted, even if the experience is behind you. And it could also help her navigate future employment situations.

      But you don’t owe it to her, and you should protect your own interests first. So you should really think it through and make sure it’s not going to bite you somehow. And when you tell her, keep it extremely high level and vague, and plan in advance what you will disclose and not disclose. I would NOT tell her you had to fight for her or anything about specific individuals and their feelings/actions.

    • Anonymous :

      Absolutely not. Are you cray? Do not do this.

      • +1. If I were her, I’d feel ambushed by my former boss cornering me to explain what my “problems” were in a previous company, even if it was communicated in the nicest possible way. Let it go.

      • Do not tell her unless she brings it up for some reason (which I doubt she ever will because you don’t seem close). There’s no way she won’t feel ambushed.

        Why do you really want to tell her? I’d guess the issue really frustrated you and you want to get it off your chest — not really a great motivation for “helping” someone.

    • Don’t say anything unless she asks directly. And avoid opportunities for her to ask directly.

    • Thanks, all- exactly the perspective I was looking for. I tried to put myself in the situation and couldn’t decide if I’d have wanted to know. So obviously haven’t said anything. We are at another industry event this week and she seemed to be poking around for insight but I didn’t want to open a can of worms. Am putting the can opener down right now!

  5. I need shopping help. I have a caribbean retreat coming up for work and I don’t know what to wear to the big dinner. Most women wear resort/cruise looking dresses or maxi dresses, none of which work for me. My usual style is J.Crew but typically I wear the more conservative and/or manly styles, and I’m not a big beach goer so I don’t have anything in my closet that would work.

    Only requirements: under $200, does not require a strapless bra, no pink or red.

    • Oh! And it needs to go with flat navy or silver sandals. I am doing carry on so no room for other shoes.

    • I’d go preppy (if that fits your style). Brooks Brothers is having a pretty great sale at the moment, so I pulled a few, but otherwise Nanette Lepore, Tilly, Boden and Lily are all good bets for that a structured sundress I’d be comfortable wearing around work colleagues.,default,pd.html?dwvar_SX00051_Color=OWHT&contentpos=8&cgid=0317,default,pd.html?dwvar_WX00341_Color=REDN&contentpos=22&cgid=0317,default,pd.html?dwvar_SX00045_Color=NAVY&contentpos=45&cgid=0317,default,pd.html?dwvar_SX00039_Color=WHIT&contentpos=56&cgid=0317

      • pugsnbourbon :

        Oh my goodness, that stripey navy-white dress is so lovely and a BARGAIN. Makes me so sad that it’s gray and cold here.

        • I have that one and it is washable, and a nice thick ponte. I’ve worn it to work to my business casual office with heels and nice jewelry and it was super cute – also works beautifully on the weekends.

      • Thanks! I had totally forgotten about BB as I don’t often shop there.

      • These are all cute!

    • Bradley-Chelsea Manning :

      How about a pair of chiffon wide-legged pants and suitable top? Would an off-the-shoulder top work if it was inexpensive & had a built-in bra?

      • Oops! Sorry about the “name.”

        Anyway, like this:

      • Anonymous :

        Wow. That’s a really offensive screen name.

      • No- the strapless bra restriction is more because I don’t like to show much shoulder than anything else, I don’t actually mind strapless bras. The pants would make me more physically comfortable but no one wears pants so I would feel out of place.

    • Anonymous :

      Gretchen Scott / Lily Pulitzer / Jude Connally

    • I would just go for something fit-and-flare and bra-friendly. Right now on Amazon there’s a dress called “Julian Taylor Women’s Fit and Flare Pleated Dress” that is floral, ivory and blue, and has *pockets.* It’s also cheapAF. If that’s not dressy enough, what if you went a little retro? On Unique Vintage (dot com) there’s a dress called Vintage Deep Green Seville Floral Half Sleeve Hepburn Swing Dress that’s lovely, I think.

    • ponte python's flying circus :

      What about a jumpsuit, if that works for your build?

  6. Doehwlhsoen :

    Saw this article about tweets about heels and thought it would interest the community here

    • Anon in NOVA :

      Interesting! It seems tech-specific. It’s interesting how the “norms” vary so much between fields, and even among regions.

      • lost academic :

        My personal experience has been that guys in tech are very vocally judgey about how women dress, especially ones that work near them.

        • ugh, males :

          this, truly. I read that article and couldn’t come up with any other intelligent thought except: Fvvvvck that guy.

          • Doehwlhsoen :

            Exactly? This isn’t about “health” or “focusing on data science”. Why can’t you wear whatever shoes you want and still focus on data science?

          • lost academic :

            THIS. It’s still an excuse to judge what someone – specifically a woman – is wearing. He took the time time NOTICE and PHOTOGRAPH her shoes. His excuses are weak.

    • This article is from 2013. I’m pretty sure we’ve discussed it here before.

      Fwiw, that guy is awful. No one has any business secretly taking a picture of someone else’s outfit and publicly slamming them. How catty of him. And his mansplanations of why those shoes were problematic were even worse. HOWEVER, if I saw those shoes and those untailored jeans at a professional event – even one that was casual enough for jeans – I would seriously side eye the outfit and the wearer.


  7. Bradley-Chelsea Manning :

    Warning, serious question ahead.

    The ACLU lobbied for Manning’s commuted sentence, saying that he was denied appropriate medical care and that he received an outrageously long sentence, far longer than any other whistleblower.

    This is all probably true, but where do you draw the line between treason and whistleblowing? And how is an outrageously long sentence not appropriate for treason? I could make the distinction far easier if he only released a handful of relevant documents, rather than indiscriminately releasing 40,000.

    And lastly, by all accounts, he was never mentally or emotionally fit to be in the position he was. I am having trouble understanding how he should be held accountable 100% for a job his supervisors knew he wasn’t medically capable of having.

    Could someone smarter than I weigh in? Thanks.

    • Maudie Atkinson :

      If you are looking for someone to respond seriously and thoughtfully to your inquiry, it would be helpful to start by not deadnaming and misgendering her. I’m not suggesting that Chelsea’s status as a trans person explains or excuses her crimes, but the (apparently conscious) decision to misgender her suggests you’re not so much curious as looking to grind an axe.

    • Please use female pronouns for Chelsea Manning. You may not be aware of this, but using male pronouns for a transwomen is deeply insulting. And even if you don’t care about insulting Chelsea Manning, it’s hurtful to other transpeople as well, including those who might read this site. There’s a real conversation to be had about what she did (I’m not a fan of it, but like you, also feel like there were numerous emotional and mental health issues at play), but using male pronouns is going to make having that conversation difficult because it’s so inflammatory. Chelsea Manning’s gender identity really doesn’t have anything to do with what she did.

      • Anonymous :

        I’m sure this poster is fully aware.

        • anonymous :

          How are you sure? It’s hard to be aware of all things all the time. Maybe this just isn’t something she’s really dealt with before. Benefit of the doubt, people.

          • Anonymous :

            No. I don’t give the benefit of the doubt about conduct that’s willfully harmful. And the poster isn’t back apologizing profusely, so nah.

          • I’d point to the fact that she posted under “Bradley-Chelsea Manning,” or the fact that every major news outlet (including Fox) has covered this story using Chelsea Manning and the appropriate female pronouns. I think it’s safe to assume that someone curious enough about this to post here would have seen coverage from at least one major news outlet.

          • Anon at 9:23 :

            And maybe she posted under “Bradley-Chelsea Manning” because she didn’t know any better. Maybe OP only read one story about this and didn’t take particular notice of whether the story referred to Chelsea as Chelsea instead of Bradley.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      To me, your description of Private Manning as “he” says everything about how you view this issue.

    • I’m not the OP, but before people start piling on, I’d like to remind people that there are many people in this country that have never met a transgender person and don’t understand the norms surrounding gender pronouns. I can easily see how someone who is not familiar with what being transgender means would assume that you refer to Chelsea as Bradley if you’re talking about what she did before her transition.

      • Anonymous :

        Nope. “Bradley-Chelsea”?!? “He” was denied medical care?!? Nope. This is wrong. It’s not hard to understand.

        • Anon at 9:23 :

          I know that it’s wrong, but I disagree that the OP was “willfully” being hurtful, to quote a poster below. I’m liberal, and I’ve had liberal friends (particularly older friends) tell me that they aren’t familiar with how to talk about people who have undergone transitions. One of my older coworkers literally interrupted a conversation between me and a 30-something colleague about Caitlyn Jenner to ask whether we should refer to her as Caitlyn or Bruce when discussing her past. This colleague wanted to do the right thing, but had never had any personal experience with a trans person.

      • Anonymous :

        This. And there are some transpeople who use this sort of terminology themselves (e.g., Caitlyn Jenner has referred to Bruce winning the Olympic medal, not her).

        • Anonymous :

          But Chelsea Manning does not, and this poster didn’t just refer to her using male pronouns in connection with a time in the past when she used them.

      • I was referring to Bradley, who committed the offenses, and Chelsea, to who she is now.

        • No you weren’t. That’s literally not what you said.

        • Except you never once used “she” or referred to Chelsea other than in your name in your original post. If you were unsure of how to address her past actions, you could have said that in your original post. You referred to her only as “Manning” in the text, which would have been understandable if you were honestly unsure, but then you should not have used the male pronouns.

          Do you understand why this is a problem? And why your push-back on it is troubling some people? If you honestly didn’t know, please learn from the people here who are sharing with you why it is not ok.

      • Seriously. I think a gentle correction was in order, but the name calling was not.

    • Anonymous :

      She. She you ignorant transphobic jerk. You want to have a serious conversation? Don’t be such a bigot.

      • People like you have turned me into a TERF.

        • THIS

        • Anons at 12:23 and 12:59, you can argue about tone all you want. However, if your reaction to being called a jerk is to turn around and align yourself with a movement that denies people the right to their own lived identities, that says a lot about who you are and the things you value.

          (For those two don’t know, TERF refers to people who basically don’t believe that trans* individuals are worthy of rights, dignity, or legal protections. It’s an outgrowth of an extreme, radical “feminist” fringe. See

          • Actually, no. TERF is a slur misogynists fling at women who dare to disagree with them on issues like biology, feminism, and women’s rights. It’s basically a more socially acceptable version of b*tch usually reserved for anyone who cares about women’s rights first. I’m really disappointed that someone on this site would use that hateful term and try to shame the rest of us into believing it.


    • Anonymous :

      Sure, I’m smarter than you. SHE. Stop being a transphobic dehumanizing jerk and then we can talk all you want.

      • JuniorMinion :

        This is really offensive. Calling someone what you called them is never ok and immediately shuts down the conversation. Perhaps the poster (as many of my older generations who never dealt with this) is simply unaware, perhaps they are operating under the assumption that things a person did pre-transition should utilize that pronoun. Either way, your comments are not very nice.

        • Anonymous :

          I’m sorry your feelings are so hurt because I told some being deliberately harmful that they were being a jerk? Next time I’m smile politely and nod when people make targeted cutting comments about people already suffering and marginalized? Heaven forbid someone over 40 be expected to learn anything? Obviously it’s much worse to be called a jerk when you are being a jerk than to be insulted because of who you are?

          Nah. I’m cool. Thanks though.

          • No one said that you have to “smile politely and nod,” but you also don’t have to be caustic, sarcastic, or rude.

        • Marshmallow :

          Yeah this comment was 100% worthy of being called a jerk. It’s a pretty tame insult, too!

          • Wrong. So anytime anyone makes a mistake on this issue, they are a transphobic dehumanizing jerk? You must really despise a lot of people.

          • Anon at 9:23 :


          • Anon at 9:23 :

            Meant +1 to Anonymous, not to Marshmallow. I miss the edit function.

          • Marshmallow :

            Not a “mistake.” It was clearly intentional based on the context of the post. A simple mistake is different.

            Saying someone is a jerk doesn’t necessarily mean I would despise them. But yeah, I despise anyone who rejects the basic human rights of others.

          • +1 to Anon at 10:56. Just keep the insults rolling. Hopefully more people will hit Peak Trans.

        • +1 to both JuniorMinion and OP. There’s a difference between criticizing someone’s behavior and criticizing someone’s being. You don’t win people to your viewpoint by insulting them.

          The OP was referring to past history. BRUCE Jenner was the athlete. BRADLEY Manning was the private who leaked information. The OP was doing her best both to respect a transperson’s current pronoun preferences and to cite public, acknowledged, historical facts.

          • Lol. No. Not at all.

          • Nope — that’s not what she did. She kept referring to “him” being denied medical care.

            I don’t agree that name-calling or assuming bad intent is the best way to go off the bat, but the OP referred to Private Manning as “he” throughout her entire post.

          • Exactly!!!!

          • ELS – OP might have assumed that you use the original pronoun until SRS is complete. I have known several people who thought that this was the case.

          • Marshmallow :


          • @Anon — I can see that. And frankly, I had a rather good discussion with OP down-thread which made me re-think any bad intent I had ascribed. I do think the intent was to discuss the inhumane treatment Manning is receiving and the nature of the crime(s) after that discussion. It wasn’t entirely clear originally, but I can see how the piling on would have made it difficult to come back and apologize with any real efficacy.

            I’m still learning re: transgender rights/issues myself. I know I mess it up a lot. I have good intentions, and should think more about how this could have been me making a mistake in language.

    • To me, the line between treason and whistleblowing isn’t a fine one. Almost all of the materials Chelsea Manning leaked had to do with US foreign intelligence, which I strongly believe need to be kept secret for national security purposes. With respect to the documents that had to do with US internal policy, she never tried to “whistleblow” through conventional means; she just leaked them without regard to the consequences for US policy. I do not view her as a whistleblower, much less a hero that many make her out to be.

      All that said, 35 years still seems like excessive punishment, particularly when compared to similar situations. She also clearly had some mental health issues, and I think it’s inhumane that she’s being housed in a men’s prison. So, I can’t say I disagree with Obama commuting her sentence. I just wish certain media outlets would stop painting it as a story of freeing a hero.

      • Anonymous :

        I agree with all of this.

      • I agree with this also.

      • Anonymous :

        I’m just wondering, as a petite biological woman, would you house her in prison with me? I’m not sure that’s the solution, either. I can see why men’s and solitary are worse options, but the general female population may not be workable, either.

        • I wouldn’t. One of the few studies available on the topic showed that males who transition commit crimes at the same rate as males who don’t (Dhejne et al 2011). Male-pattern criminality is an unacceptable risk to women. I support a decent, humane option for Manning, but it doesn’t include being housed with vulnerable female prisoners.

          • Even though her crime was not violent in nature? Again, not trying to be inflammatory. I just think I view Manning’s case as different than say, a transgender person who committed a crime of personal violence.

          • Why? Does she have a record of ever committing physical violence? Do you think she’s going to try to r*pe other female inmates? Let’s name the behavior that we’re worried about.

          • I wouldn’t be worried in Manning’s case specifically and would probably support an individual-case determination there, but in general, I don’t support housing males with females. I’ve watched and been totally appalled as “feminists” have rallied around the “right” of rapists to be housed with females in prison. I would fear setting any kind of precedent that continues to normalize that behavior in the Manning case.

          • Thank you, Anon, for clarifying. I understand the impulse behind not wanting to create a precedent of making women less safe. I’m still working out how I feel about this issue, generally, so this discussion is helpful.

            Another question, if you don’t mind: What about cis-female inmates who have perpetrated sexual or personally violent crimes against women? I understand that the same sociological issues are not at play, but the risk to other female inmates is still high.

          • Another wrinkle: men r*pe other men, whether in prison or out of it. Why are we okay with housing male r*pists with male targets for them to r*pe? Why does the “but the r*pists!” argument only become an issue when a trans* individual is going to be housed with cis women? What about the male prison guards who s*xually assault or harass their female inmates? Should we ban all men from working in women’s prisons?

            Basically, I think we can all agree that these are thorny questions with a lot of intersecting issues that our penitentiary system is completely unprepared to handle.

          • Agreed, Emeralds.

          • Exactly, Emeralds. [email protected] in prison is a huge issue that goes far beyond gender and sexuality.

          • THat may be true, but if we are speaking in generalities, which you have to when making a policy, men would be much more able to do this to women due to size and strength.

          • Manning has a history of violence and of violence towards women. Manning should NOT be jailed with other women for the safety of the women.

            “Hours later, Manning punched a female co-worker in the face. It was after this final incident that he was removed from post. He was arrested over the leaks at the end of the month.”


          • Gender Critical Feminist :

            Transwomen are a danger to women. They violently attack women at the same rate as men attack women.

            For examples of instances where transwomen have violently attacked women in, including instances in restrooms and locker rooms, check out:


          • @Gender Critical Feminist: You know, I was willing to engage until I saw you linked to 1) a wordpress account and 2) that account (and you!) seem to angrily paint all men and trans women with the same brush.

            Nah, I’m good. I’ll pass.

            Yes, people do terrible things to each other. Yes, I am concerned about violence against women. But trans women themselves are also a targeted population. They do not have the same experience as cis women, but they do not have the same experience as cis men, either.

            I’m not going to promote the idea that fear and inflammatory language re: a group of people is a good way to address concerns or change.


        • I mean, what about a cis woman who is not petite? Would you object to her being housed with you?

          • Lol, wow. Because that’s the same! In an alternate world where non-petite “cis” women committed crimes like males did, the poster sure as h*ll should be scared of housing with her.

          • But we’re talking about a non-petite trans woman who has never committed any sort of violent crime, so . . . sure seems like size is the only issue here.

        • If my MIL, who is old and frail, went in for running a meth lab in her 50s, she would be vulernable to many younger female inmates who might be violent offenders. I think her risk of being victimzed (not just s&xually assaulted, but beaten, threatened, manipulated, etc.) is pretty high. I think it is doubly high if she is housed with people who were male at some point just b/c they are stronger, etc. [I also think that trans people are also, as a group, more likely to be victims.]

          And since I recall prisoners filing motions just to go to court / relieve their monotony / why not (it might work), I wouldn’t be surpised at people making claims of being trans to see if they can get into a female prison population. There are some twisted (non-trans, just evil) people out there.

          For me, I want to do my time where Martha Stewart went.

        • Anonymous :

          Chelsea Manning is I think only around 5 feet tall and slightly built. By any standards, she is petite.

      • Honest question:

        I also believe that, largely, US foreign intelligence needs to be kept classified for national security purposes. I am a pragmatist who understands that the world is a messy place, and that we will not always live up to the ideals that we set for ourselves (though we should continue to strive and move in that direction). I understand that foreign intelligence and military action are messy and imperfect.

        Leaving aside Manning’s case specifically (because I think you could argue both ways about what she did): is this a totally black and white issue for you? It is not for me. I generally think that such matters should not be leaked (and certainly not through WikiLeaks). But if the material shows severe violations of human rights/that we are breaking international law and more traditional methods of stemming that tide have not worked, I think someone who leaks intelligence material could be seen as a whistle blower. At least by me.

        I am even more sympathetic when leaks relate to internal US policy (i.e. Edward Snowden).

        I’m honestly not trying to be inflammatory (I know smart people can and do disagree on these issues). I was just wondering, given your last paragraph, if other situations might lead you to feel differently about whether a leak is treason or whistleblowing.

        • No, I don’t think it’s black and white in that all leaks are bad. There could be situations in which material should be leaked as a last resort. In those cases, the leaker should be extremely judicious and take as much care as possible not to leak information that could put US lives at risk. In Snowden’s case, I do think the NSA was engaged in illegal activity, and it seems he did reach out to Congress at one point. I’d be far more sympathetic to him if his disclosures were limited to that information. But they weren’t – he leaked hundreds of thousands of documents that contained sensitive military information too. That’s not whistleblowing, to me.

          • Thank you for elaborating. I think I’m much more sympathetic to Snowden, generally. To me, he was a whistle blower, but I understand your concerns, and I do think he could have handled it better than he did. I suppose to me, the overarching cultural awareness that has happened as a result of Snowden’s acts, and the spotlight on the NSA (to the extent that they can have a spotlight) re: citizen spying is worthy of the fallout. I also appreciate that he took steps to reach out to others prior to leaking documents.

            But again: this is an area where smart people can disagree. I certainly don’t have all the answers.

            Thanks for the discussion.

      • Thank you.

        Does the SRS fall under necessary medical care?

        • Note – based on the above discussion of resort-wear, this EM is the OP “Bradley-Chelsea Manning” commentor.

          Your agenda is clear now. You don’t want to discuss whistle-blowing v. treason, you want to focus on Chelsea’s transition and focus your judgment on that. I think it should be apparent from the responses that you’re getting so far that you aren’t going to get people to agree with your transphobia.

          • Good catch.

            And yes, it is. Like any other treatment to keep a prisoner from committing suicide.

          • No.

            I did want to focus on whistle-blowing versus treason.

            But it seemed the conversation derailed and I was responding to a previous comment.

          • If you want a discussion about something other than your transphobia, apologize.

          • Marshmallow :

            Jerk, you’ve now confirmed you’re posting under at least three names. Go away.

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            Can I just note that if I ever try to post one post under a different name and then try to go back to using Sloan Sabbith in an unrelated thread, I get filtered, and somehow this jerk (for many, many reasons- apologize for misgendering HER or STFU is right), gets through with 3 different names, seemingly without being moderated?

            I agree with everyone else here. Your position is clear, and it’s clear you don’t care. Stop.

    • Before everyone gets up in arms, not everyone agrees that “preferred pronouns” are mandatory. I don’t use preferred pronouns when males commit violence against women (i.e., a woman in the Bay Area, where I live, was recently murdered by a male with “they” pronouns. I continue to use “he” when discussing his case, or any other case, of male violence).

      However, there’s a real question in the Manning case about the government’s intentions to provide or not provide medical care. NYTimes suggested that they didn’t want to deal with the cost/hassle/precedent-setting of covering “gender transition” surgery, which is an interesting point to deal with, and I wonder if it led to a reduction in sentence. I, for one, fully support reducing the ridiculously outrageous sentence to something more in line with other leak cases.

      • Anonymous :

        But this isn’t a case of male violence against women.

        • No, it isn’t – but the main point is that not everyone agrees with preferred pronouns being mandatory. Someone might call me a transphobic jerk for saying “he” in male violence cases; I’d consider them a misogynistic jerk for saying so.

          • Anonymous :

            No, the main point is that in this case, refusing to use the correct pronouns to refer to Chelsea Manning is transphobic and wrong. But nice work derailing that.

          • You need to accept that there are people who think differently from you. Pretending that everyone you meet who disagrees with you is a total jerk and has no legitimate reasons for doing something that is offensive to you isn’t going to get you far in life.

          • Anonymous :

            But you don’t disagree? Because I’m saying call Chelsea by her name, and you’re saying but but but other situation entirely.

      • Your comparison doesnt make sense at all to me…Just call people what they want to be called regardless of how you “feel” – its just common decency.

        Chelsea Manning has made it clear she wants to be referred to as she its not confusing…

        • Also its seems like you view calling someone you disagree with or dont like by the wrong pronoun as a way to ‘get back at’ them, which is simply immature and accomplishes nothing

        • Gender Critical Feminist :

          Nope. Nope. Nope.

          Common decency means not telling people to lie about how the perceive the world ala 1984. If I see a man in a wig and a dress, I’ll use masculine pronouns. Telling me that I have to use feminine pronouns is compelled speech and violates the 1st Amendment.

          Telling people that using the wrong pronouns is a violent crime, causing people to commit suicide is just abuse. Abusers will often threaten suicide if their victims don’t do exactly as they ask.

          • Not to be pendantic, but it only violates the First Amendment if the government does it. If a private citizen asks you to not say something, or kicks you off their property, the First Amendment has not been violated, as it only applies to government actions.

            I’m not dismissing the other points you have made (this is an area I am still learning about, frankly). But private citizens cannot violate your First Amendment rights.

          • After reading up thread: yeah, I am dismissing your other points.

      • Not everyone “agrees” that trans people should have human rights. Not everyone “agrees” that unarmed black men shouldn’t be murdered by police. Not everyone “agrees” that women should have the right to vote (what a lovely election cycle we just had). Not everyone “agrees” that gay people should be allowed to get married. Those people are bigots.

        • Exactly.

        • Nice straw man!

        • Sloan Sabbith :

          This. It doesn’t matter what you feel here, the best practice is to call people (any people) by their correct pronoun (and it is correct, people get to define what they want to be referred to as. I don’t get called Maggie just because people don’t feel like calling me Sloan….).

          Maybe if you’ve got something from the trans* community saying “Hey, it’s complicated- some people don’t actually want to be called by their correct pronoun, they’d actually prefer to be called by the pronoun corresponding with the sex they were assigned at birth.” But you don’t. You have the ENTIRE trans community saying that trans people want to be called by the pronoun (or name, or genderqueer marker) they choose. Regardless of what they’ve done.

          People who have committed crimes are still people. To deny someone their humanity, their ability to literally be called by the correct gender is disgusting. Dudes don’t like being called p**sies, with my short hair, I don’t like to be called “bro,” and trans* men and women don’t like to be called she and he.

          • We disagree about what the “correct” pronouns are. Words have meanings to society and I don’t think someone’s preference to be called “xe” outweighs the need to have societal norms for referring to each other. If you disagree, cool, but it’s not “denying someone’s humanity” to disagree that pronouns are changeable. For the record, I usually use people’s preferred pronouns, but it’s not because I believe they have stopped being female or male. It’s politeness only.

          • Gender Critical Feminist :

            +1000000 to Anon at 12:15.

          • @Anon/Gender Critical Feminist: this is a really interesting perspective.

            From my perspective, a trans woman is a woman, though obviously she will have a different experience than cis women, both before and after transition. Outwardly, she will have stopped being male.

            Of course, we cannot change our genetic makeup. Is that what you are referring to? The biological genetic makeup when referring to male/female? To me, gender is something completely different than that.

          • Yeah, read up thread. No need to respond, Gender Critical Feminist. I’m good. You’ve made your shtick pretty clear. I’m not down.

      • Thank you for your explanation.


        The Jerk

        • Wow. That doesn’t actually look like an apology.

        • Uh. Listen.

          Every major news outlet has referred to Chelsea Manning as “she.” Perhaps, if you’re asking a serious question and don’t want to be considered a jerk, you could A) refer to another human being with respect or B) when called out on not doing point A, react like a mature person and realize it was a disrespectful thing to do. Even if you didn’t meant to (which, given your other comments, I don’t think was the case).

          But, in an effort to answer your questions, because I want you to learn something: 1) Manning was not convicted of Treason. She was convicted under the Espionage Act. Treason is very narrowly defined by the Constitution, is not the crime that the State charged.

          Secondly: mental status defenses are very difficult to mount. Generally, outside of very specific circumstances, you are responsible for your own conduct under the law, even if you have a mental illness (unless that illness resulted in a legal determination of insanity). I’ve always seen mental health become more of an issue at sentencing, not at the guilt phase of a trial.

          Finally. and semi-off-topic: I am very interested in how the mental health/insanity defense is going to play for Beau Bergdahl, who is set to be tried in military court soon.

          • Yes, Chelsea is a she. I was trying to refer to the person who committed the crimes as a he, and the person who is sentenced as a she, and evidently failed miserably. But being called horrible names does not spur me to apologize.

            Does the State have an obligation to commute a sentence if they cannot house an inmate in humane conditions? From my point of view (which may be entirely incorrect), it is not possible to successfully transition in prison, given the emotional and mental situation, much less the physical conditions in which she is housed–with the men. Does an inhumane incarnation negate the subsequent punishment for a convicted crime? If it does, how does the legal community draw the line between inhumane and not?

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            The. Same. Person. Committed. The. Crime.

            Her. Name. Is. Chelsea.

            You’re not getting that.

          • EM, you’re a horrible person.

          • Blonde Lawyer :

            I am very much not the OP but thanks for this response. I am interested in her original question even if she didn’t post it for the right purpose. I was just asking a friend some of these questions last night. Would you mind elaborating on the espionage vs. treason part and the difference between what she did and what Snowden did?

          • Sloan, you must have missed the part above about Caitlyn saying that Bruce won the gold medals. You’re not getting that this is complicated—perhaps the OP’s mom just died or her child has cancer or she’s working two jobs or she’s about to get divorced and she just hasn’t had the bandwidth to figure out if Chelsea is like Caitlyn or if she wants to be called Chelsea retroactively.

            The point is, she’s not a horrible person.

          • A few things.

            First, I was not the poster who called you a “jerk” to begin with. I was reacting to your incense at being called a jerk (which I do not think is a “horrible name” btw). If your intent was good, as you say it was, then OK. But being passive-aggressive to people who are trying to engage with you who did NOT call you a jerk until you adopted the term in indignation isn’t helping, either.

            You don’t have to have bad intentions to offend. I didn’t assume bad intentions until you doubled down. That may be just natural digging in of your heels when challenged. But that’s kind of the problem, no? Nothing happens when we all dig in our heels. But in any event, I appreciate that you clarified here.

            I digress. Let’s get back to the issue. .

            The issue of inhumane treatment is sticky, really. It’s not an area I’ve got a ton of experience in, but I’ll do my best here.

            Typically, no, maltreatment in prison doesn’t create an obligation to commute a lawful sentence. It may (and often does) open the State up to civil liability under § 1984 actions. The incarcerated person can also file a writ of habeas corpus to challenge the treatment s/he has gotten in jail. The judge, if s/he finds merit to the claim, can order that the conditions be remedied. Typically this does not result in early release, at least as a legal matter.

            The issue of determining “inhumane” or “cruel and unusual” (which is typically the term we use) is determined mostly by case law discussing what is and has not been deemed cruel and unusual. The Court will also look to whether the prison is following the laws in place to protect inmates, and whether their internal protocols are being followed. It can sometimes be imperfect, as the criminal justice system often is.

            My own personal opinion: I agree that it’s impossible for Chelsea to successfully transition in her current situation. In part because of where she is housed, and in part because of the treatment the U.S. government has given her while she is incarcerated. I think there is significant liability for the government in their handling of this case.

            I also think, in a case like this, where the convicted person did not engage in a violent crime and can be kept from perpetrating further harm (who would give her a security clearance now?), that commuting the sentence is the correct moral decision to make. She has suffered much, and was given what I consider to be a very harsh sentence compared to other similarly situated offenders. I don’t think I would feel the same way if Private Manning had committed a violent crime, or was situated to otherwise harm people upon release. In that case, I would hope that the court system would rectify the treatment she was getting, and that she would bring a 1983 action to hold the government civilly accountable.

            I hope that was as clear as mud. Sometimes it feels that way to me, too.

          • Hi ELS:

            Thank you for your thorough response.

            FWIW, there was a person in my life whom I loved second only to my parents. After 30 years, he came out as transgendered and underwent SRS. Unfortunately, the whole process was a nightmare. I found out afterwards that he was suicidally depressed as a man, and suicidally depressed as a woman. She got involved in an abusive relationship and started engaging in such dangerous behavior that her doctors warned her that if she continued, she would kill herself. And that is exactly what happened.

            After she transitioned, she was adamant that we never refer to “him” again. I accept that. But she was also insistent that we erase him from our collective memories. Cut him out of photographs, etc. (or at least hide them from view.) And that is why I do not necessarily think of as a transgendered person as the same. I loved that man. Enormously. He was my 3rd parent. And I could not, despite what she asked, write him out of my life, or reassign that person to someone else entirely.

          • Seriously, ladies? Calling someone a horrible person, a jerk, a bigot, etc is the opposite of productive, respectful dialogue. Regardless of whether you feel that the OP is in fact any of those things, I expected better from this community.

            What the h3ll happened to “when they go low, we go high”???

          • Anonattorney :

            After reading all these posts, I tend to sympathize a bit with EM. First, I don’t like the idea of name-calling on thissite. Second, I think we should give people the benefit of the doubt. I have also had experience with members of the trans community wanting to distinguish their actions and conduct pre-transition from post-transition, and have been asked to use different pronouns. I don’t think that’s a universal choice, and obviously not all trans individuals are the same or agree on all issues. I would like to assume that EM was being sincere when she said that she intended to distinguish Chelsea Manning’s actions pre-transition with a “he” pronoun, because Chelsea was at least publicly identifying as Bradley at those times.

            Ultimately, the best way to deal with pronouns is just to use the pronoun that the individual wants you to use. I’m not sure what Chelsea Manning prefers, but that’s what we should defer to.

            I think we also need to remember, as some people posted above, trans rights is a relatively new movement — at least on a wide scale (not to imply that trans individuals have not suffered for many many years trying to get recognition and protection), and not everyone (including myself) is fully up to speed on how to fairly and compassionately speak about these issues. Again, I think it’s better to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to teach before jumping to name-calling.

            Sorry if this is rambling.

          • @EM:

            Thank you for your response and clarification. I don’t disagree with the idea of seeing the pre-transition person as a separate person from the post-transition person. It’s a sticky issue, and it’s one that I think transgendered people disagree on. Some refer to their previous self differently than their current self. And especially in the situation you related, I can 100% understand why your preference was to hold on to the idea of the man you knew before transition. I’m sorry that the story had such a sad ending. I hope she is now at peace.

            Your only “crime” (said tongue in cheek) was being a little clunky in how you explained it to begin with. With your clarification and follow up questions, I understand where you were coming from, and agree that people are being really harsh. Especially those who went beyond “jerk” and into calling you a “horrible person.” That’s truly unnecessary, even if you had intended to undermine Chelsea’s transition.

            I appreciate your sincere questions about the treatment Chelsea and other people receive in our prison systems. These are important questions that we should keep talking about. I’m sorry that the whole discussion got derailed.

            Thank you for engaging with me.

          • @ELS:

            Thank YOU so much for engaging with me. I see where my initial post was clunky and I tried to apologize, but was told that I didn’t apologize for the right thing, so I gave up. I also admit to not reading beyond the posts that called me a bigot and horrible person, so if they had any valid criticism, their delivery system means I didn’t get it.

            Please believe me when I say my post was really asking for clarification on how to balance the definition of inhumanity incarceration versus the punishment from engaging in espionage.

          • @BlondeLawyer

            This isn’t my area of law, really (though I am a former prosecutor). My understanding is this:

            Treason is narrowly defined by Article III, Section 3 to be waging war on the United States, and/or “adhering to enemies pr giving them comfort.” The Espionage Act, in contrast, is a statutory provision that makes it illegal to give intelligence to foreign bodies. It has been my understanding that it takes more than just a leak of information to be considered “adhering to enemies.” Typically, cases of treason have involved counter-espionage by American citizens on behalf of foreign entities, etc.

            I don’t think that either Snowden or Manning have engaged in treason under the definition above based upon what i have read about their disclosures, though I realize that others may think differently. There is no evidence that either of them actually formed alliances with any enemies of the United States, etc.

            And regarding the relative differences between Snowden and Manning’s actions: as i understand it, both leaked sensitive and/or classified material that was deeply embarrassing for the United States. I am sympathetic to both, to be honest. I don’t know if Manning made any attempt to address her concerns before the leak, which would be a consideration for me, personally. From my reading, Snowden did, and was ignored.

            Personally, I can also understand some of the outrage re: Manning because she disclosed documents and videos related to active war zones. I know Snowden also leaked foreign intelligence, but from my understanding, the bulk of what he was attempting to address was the NSA illegally spying on millions of citizens with no cause.

            Just my two cents. I know it’s getting late in the day — hope you see this. I didn’t forget about you. Just been in and out of meetings.

          • @EM any time. One of my goals for this year is to try not to be so knee-jerk in assuming I understand others’ intent, and to engage on ideas as much as possible. It’s easy, particularly on the internet where we don’t see faces, and where tone can get lost in translation, to assume the worst, fly off the handle, and call names.

            I don’t think that helps any of us, really. It just keeps us entrenched in our own little factions. And if we insist on not engaging sincerely and civilly with people we think are wrong, our little factions keep getting smaller and smaller. Because no two of us are going to agree all the time.

          • OMG ELS, I just reread your post and got hung up the hope that she is at peace now, and I started bawling all over again. I didn’t think there were any tears left to cry, but apparently I was wrong.

          • Blonde Lawyer :

            @ ELS – Got it. Thanks. That does help clear it up.

          • @EM Internet Hugs. Take care of yourself this evening, please. It’s been a bit of a rough day ’round these parts. Loss is never easy.

            @Blonde Lawyer: you’re more than welcome. It’s just my understanding of the ins and outs, and I’m sure there are other perspectives. But that’s my read.

            @AnonAttorney: you and I agree. I think EM has, over the course of this subthread, shown that she’s compassionate and was genuinely trying to engage in a discussion. I’m particularly sad about people calling her a “horrible person.”

      • Stop feeding the trolls, ladies. It’s a troll. It posted under several names. It keeps saying a thing that has been pointed out repeatedly as offensive. It is clearly enjoying the attention. Move along, nothing to see here.

        • Anonymama :

          I thought it was a pretty interesting discussion. I think, on the internet as well as in real life, people are far far more likely to actually change if you just correct their errors (whether they are out of ignorance or intentional bigotry) and move on, rather than start calling names. I mean, if it was an actual troll trying to get a rise, then people leaping to cries of “transphobic jerk” is just what they’re looking for, no? And if it was someone just ignorantly stumbling, that makes them defensive and then either antagonistic or avoidant about trans issues. But if you say, actually it’s Chelsea/she/her, here’s what I think of her sentencing, you make it clear that the correct terminology is not something you are debating or arguing about, it just is.

        • Anonymous :

          Sorry, but I don’t think this is a troll. But the righteous indignation and name-calling are what lead me to abandon this site after reading regularly for almost 10 years. Sloan Sabbith and others on here seem to be the liberal equivalent of Fox News. And I’m done.

  8. The question above about the overpaid employee got me thinking about market value. If the woman was able to command a certain salary at her last company, isn’t that her market value? Couldn’t she parlay that into a higher salary wherever she went next?

    I get confused about this stuff because we know companies have salary ranges in mind for certain positions, but there’s this idea that we all should be pushing for more money alll the time, negotiating, asking for raises and so on. So who determines what “overpaid” really means?

    • anonshmanon :

      it’s as variable as you think it is. Pay depends on your job duties, qualifications, seniority. Those should be easy enough to compare between people who do the same job to give some measure for market value. But then pay also depends on how well you can convince your boss that your work brings so much value that you deserve a raise/higher starting salary. The success of your negotiation can corellate with your actual work product, but also with your ability to sell, and your bosses willingness to pay more, this combo is probably very specific for each case. You can also negotiate very successfully, but later conditions change and the company decides they can get somebody else to do your work cheaper. Or a recession can put many people out of a job. So it is also not a fixed value.

    • So I’m the OP. In our instance, this woman was moving company types (think: big law to in-house, or private practice to government). The hiring manager had a flexible budget and just have the woman what she asked for, which meant jumping through HR hoops and breaking some rules on title/pay grade. Also, the person hired moved markets- DC to Atlanta so not a major difference but still.

      So the woman with 3 years experience hired was brought in at $130k at the same title as others in the company making EITHER $120k with 5-10 years OR making <$100k with 3 years experience. Company mean salary for the role with her experience was $92k.

      It was 100% entirely the hiring manager's fault, but it was done. Then there were some insurance benefit changes that applied to some (this woman) but not all (her peers that worked for a different division at the time) employees and she got a $10k pay raise to compensate.

      So once she came into my department, I essentially had 6 employees performing at the same level, but 5/6 were $90k and the other – and arguably worst performer though not terrible- was making $140k. When I had to promote someone, it caused huge problems because she was already making more than the next level up and she wasn't the strongest player to promote.

      In any case, she's back in her old company type in a role much better suited to her strengths and I'm very happy for her.

  9. DC terrible :

    Any recs for a career coach in DC? Im barred in DC and VA, 2014 grad, have basically bounced between some small firms, doc review and som other stuff. So far, I’ve hated everything. I have no idea what I am good at. I know I am not detail oriented at all, actually I’m really bad at details. I need someone to help me figure outwhat i like and am good at.

    • Honestly, it’s hard for me to think of a legal career that doesn’t require you to be good at details. What about the various jobs did you hate? I can understand not liking doc review, but what about the jobs where you had the opportunity to practice? Did you work before law school? Is there anything you want to do (versus thinking about what you are good at)?

      I know this isn’t what you asked, but I would suggest working on setting up checklists and other ways to help yourself get better about details. Even in non-legal careers, details are important.

    • Marshmallow :

      I’m at a similar seniority to you and man, details are SO important. I think you probably hated all your jobs because you were never able to work up to doing more important and interesting stuff. You need to show proficiency at the lower level, detail-oriented stuff first.

      If you really want to avoid details… what about a JD-preferred job? I don’t exactly know what that would look like, but I can imagine an in-house job that involves negotiating but not actually drafting contracts. (maybe???)

      • Ugh. Please, work on the details. I work extensively with in-house and outside counsel and if you miss the details in a contract I’m working on, I’m never working with you again.

      • I am in a JD-preferred position that both negotiates and drafts contracts, and details are incredibly important. All of the non-JD positions here that touch contracts are detail-heavy. Our entry-level positions, be it in customer service or sales or anything else really are detail-heavy. I think that no matter which direction the OP decides to go in (legal or not), the OP needs to develop a system so that he/she can manage detail-oriented tasks.

    • Are you bad at details or so bored by what you’re working on so that you glaze over and miss things? It’s an important distinction.

      • This is true. I was bad at details when I was working on 300+ page finance documents and thought I was a bad employee overall, but I just hated the work which made me bad at that position. I am very good at details in my current position working on industry-specific contracts, which are usually 4-30 pages and don’t make me want to die of boredom.

    • You sound exactly like me! Any advice, I’m all ears! I hate, hate, hate law life!

    • Life is in the details. You have to be detail oriented to some degree for any job, and for life. You have to do your taxes. You have to read the fine print on any contracts you sign. You have to do all of these things to be a functioning adult. It is perfectly reasonable for any employer to expect you to pay attention to detail.

      But it’s HARD and it’s not what you LIKE to do. That is true for just about everyone.

      There is no job where you can be sloppy and successful. There’s a reason they call it work.

      • Anonymama :

        Ditto. Maybe reframe your mindset that you are not good with details yet, and consciously work on improving your skills. Just like working a muscle, this kind of thing gets easier with practice, and is a necessary life skill. Practice! And maybe try to find something that interests you in at least some small aspect so the details aren’t quite as tedious.

    • typo-ridden litigator :

      This really isn’t a direct answer to your question, but consider:

      You generally need to be detail oriented to be an effective lawyer, but there are some types of law that you may be better suited to. Honestly, I’ve seen a lot of people be successful litigators who are not the most detail oriented. This might not work at a big firm where a partner will yell at you for days for a typo, but find yourself a friendly smaller firm where, honestly, clients are happy with B+ attention to detail. In litigation, your success rarely hinges on the exact syntax of something you wrote as a lawyer, like contract drafting. Plus, turn around time is slower than when you’re doing deals (30 days to draft a reply brief feels like a life time when you’re used to “client needs this draft tomorrow morning”) and you can spend more time proofreading, etc. You may also be able to rely on seasoned support staff to help keep you on track with edits, formatting, scheduling, document requests, depo notices, other small things like that. Your success will hing on research, your ability to develop evidence in your case, strategy, negotiating skills, and big-picture brief drafting ability (v. whether it is typo-free).

      Litigation obviously still involves being detail oriented when it comes to strategy, research, and building your case, but that kind of thing is learnable and much more interesting. Learning how to take a really solid depo (a detail-oriented feat) is a lot more interesting than proof reading a document and filling in numbers for the 100th time.

    • Business development. Sales. The sort of thing that’s big pictures but you have fail safes for the details (contracts people, finance/accounting, product, etc).

  10. Maudie Atkinson :

    I’m gearing up to be in trial for 4 of the next 6 weeks (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on, two separate specially set trials in companion civil cases). It will be my first trial. I am a junior associate.
    I’m looking for tips surviving this stretch. I already outsource a ton (house cleaning, use a meal service that supplies fully prepared meals), and my husband is a litigator too, so he has some understanding of what this period will look like for me (though he has yet to do this kind of trial work). No children. Trial will not require travel, so I’ll still be staying at home. Anything I should be thinking about? Any tips borne of experience?

    • dryclean all your suits before the trials start. You don’t want to have to worry about running out of back up options if you spill breakfast on your suit.

      • +1

        Buy extra tights/hose and keep a pair in your purse or briefcase. Ditto all recommendations for a trial uniform/wardrobe planning, including back up shoes.

        Don’t forget to stay hydrated. Eat healthy snacks. (I tend to forget to eat and run on adrenaline, which is not sustainable for a multi-week trial). Try to go outside once a day, and not just from house to car to court.

        Talk to the clerks and try to do a trial run of your tech requirements in the courtroom before court, so you know everything works. Pack an extension cord/extra cables/etc.

        I keep lozenges, tissues, rolaids, pain meds, and similar OTC stuff in my trial bag–not just for me, but for partner or witnesses (or even opposing counsel who won’t stop coughing…)

        Good luck! You’ve got this. By the time you’ve run the second one, you’ll have worked out all of the kinks and it’ll be smooth sailing.

    • Marshmallow :

      Fellow junior associate and trial survivor here. The best thing I did for trial was only pack (or for you, make sure they are clean and set aside) “uniform” suit pieces. A bunch of white and cream shirts, my navy suit, and my grey suit. Black shoes. Very streamlined makeup look that can be applied with fingers. Repeat, repeat. Removing decision fatigue was a big help.

      Substantively– this is probably obvious, but as a junior associate my job was to know the documents, live with them, love them. It was easier for me to take ownership over things like the exhibit list, exhibit objections/ stipulations, where the exhibit boxes went, than to let someone more junior take care of it and then not know where something was when the partners needed it. If you have a really great paralegal or other junior associate, make sure you work closely together so when your boss says, “I need that email where the guy says that thing,” you can look it up.

      I tried to know my limits and engage in what limited self-care I could. Most nights we worked until well past 2 or 3AM, but there was one night I just had to tell the supervising partner at 1:30 I couldn’t do anymore. And I was glad I set that boundary when I needed it. I packed a couple face masks and tried to do a ten-minute mask while reading a novel a few times before going to bed. Every day after dinner I stepped outside for a few minutes to call my husband.

      And– prioritize healthy food. There is so much junk around in trial war rooms. Eat fruit, drink water, grab the salad for lunch when it’s an option. Exercise is harder to squeeze in (I did 15 minutes of barre in my hotel room, once! and that was it!) but avoiding the junk makes a big difference in how you feel.

    • sounds like you are already in decent shape — no kids, meals & cleaning covered.
      i recently second-chaired a 2-week trial at 20 wks preg & a 4 yo at home. DH is also a litigator with trial experience. this was the longest trial i’ve had and the first in 5 yrs that didn’t require travel. i actually found home more distracting — when i got done i felt like i should be doing other things instead of just plopping down in the hotel to work or watch tv. here’s what helped me:
      – taxis (i normally walk everywhere but it was just too much time/energy during trial)
      – outfit pre-planning (esp b/c i had limited maternity suiting options this saved me tons of time and is something i don’t usually do — not just night before but a full list of outfits down to the jewelry to get me thru the hearing so i didn’t have to make those decisions)
      – bring snack food & water (depends on court/judge but not everywhere supplies water & some judges are stingy with breaks — better to have some high-protein snacks to recharge if needed)
      – scope out nearby spots for a quick lunch/coffee (even though this was in my city it was in a neighborhood away from where i live/work that doesn’t have a lot of offices, so having 2-3 spots i could rely on to get food quickly was helpful)
      – pack extra power/network/audio cords, take/set up wifi hotspot, or get your tech people to do it (this was huge for being able to keep track of exhibits in a chart on my computer while i was not presenting witnesses & to do on-the-spot research)
      – take a copy of the relevant civil rules and rules of evidence — and a NITA or similar hornbook on evidence if available, as well as a full copy of the relevant statute or regulations
      – take a paper with the court address, phone # for chambers, phone #s for your & partners’ secretaries, phone #s for opposing counsel, and phone #s for all potential witnesses for your case — having all this info in hard copy & in one place can be a huge time saver
      – take at least some break/lunch time for yourself!!! say you need to make a call, say you need to use the restroom — whatever it takes, spending 100% of your time with partner is not healthy, so make a little space for yourself when there isn’t an urgent need to address a work issue during break; going to lunch alone can be amazing during a long trial
      – pack tons of pens. then pack some more. courtrooms eat pens. same for sticky notes.
      – if possible bring (or have your paralegal bring) a portable color printer & paper so that you can print out extra copies when witnesses write on exhibits or something unexpected comes up
      – take extra vitamin C, bring hand sani, or use your other illness-prevention methods of choice — esp at this time of year being cooped up in a courtroom for that long and working the long hours that trial often requires over that extended period will result in getting sick; EVERYONE got sick within 2 weeks of my trial ending (including the judge), so from an immunity standpoint treat it as if you’re going into a preschool classroom (also get a flu shot if you haven’t already)
      I hope this helps. Best of luck — that’s a grueling schedule.

    • A few thoughts:

      **Stock up on underwear and pantyhose ( if you wear them for Court).
      ** Automate wardrobe as much as possible, and make a list of combinations and plan out wardrobe for first few days of trial.
      ** Check all suits and shoes now for loose threads, buttons, heel wear, etc.
      ** Stock up on anything you use regularly that are non grocery items ( paper towels, toothpaste, OTC meds etc.)
      ** if any important events during that 6-7 week period (birthdays, etc) go ahead and buy gift or card now
      ** if you are responsible for paying bills in the family, go ahead and schedule payments online or write checks and put them in the envelopes with mailing dates on the front.
      ** check your work calendar for deadlines that will occur within first two weeks after trials are over, and either get some of that done now, or get the appropriate extensions.

      Get lots of sleep! Good luck !

    • Delta Dawn :

      I second the tip to have everything dry cleaned before trial begins. I would hang all of my suits in the order I want to wear them, including shirt/blouse, and have all shoes/hose/minimal jewelry ready and nearby before trial begins. Put these things in the same place every night when you get home so you don’t have to think about it the next morning.

      Is there a war room or some sort of home base you and your team will use during trial? I like to have snacks and meals for the week when I show up on the first day (or stock the war room on the weekend if it’s accessible). Even a big bag of trail mix and a couple of frozen Lean Cuisines can suffice. Also a Camelback or case of bottled water, enough Diet Coke, or whatever you want to drink.

      I often leave a pair or two of trial shoes in the war room and commute to the courthouse in flats. For a trial longer than a week, I sometimes leave an extra suit in the war room in case of spills (though this is not really necessary). I keep an extra pair of hose in my bag or in the war room. I also bring a little toiletry bag with toothbrush, toothpaste, powder and lipstick for touchups, etc. The days get long. If you are the type of team who will get more comfortable for the evening work, maybe bring a change of clothes (my last trial was with a coworker bestie so we changed into workout clothes to work at night, but YMMV).

      As far as home, with no children and an understanding litigator husband, you should be able to just let things slide at home during trial. You’ll hopefully get a brief break on the weekend in the middle of trial that you can reset things at home, but I wouldn’t worry about that too much. Good luck!

  11. Veronica Mars :

    Reporting back on the Boden Ravello Blouse. I got them and while the fabric is beautiful, they’re way too big. I’ll size down and reorder.

  12. My boyfriend has been in another country for work for a month. We skyped this weekend and he said “let’s talk again Monday or Tuesday.” We didn’t talk Monday, and when I skyped him yesterday, he was socializing at a colleague’s house. Because of the big time difference, that meant we didn’t actually get to talk yesterday. I asked him about an email he was supposed to send me and he said he’d do it before he went to bed that night…but he didn’t. I woke up and felt really disappointed.

    As I’m writing it out, this seems trivial. We didn’t have a firm time to talk, the email can be written another day, he’s generally a little forgetful and it’s not personal to me. And at least some of the disappointment must be because I miss him.

    On the other hand, if the situation was reversed and I wasn’t able to talk or send an email as planned, I would be really apologetic, which he wasn’t. I’m feeling all fretful that he’s as invested in the relationship as I am, or as I want him to be. I can’t tell if I’m worrying over nothing. Am I?

    • How long were you dating before he left for this work trip? Are you generally secure in the relationship?

      You should set firm times to talk, just like you would set a firm time for a date.

    • I don’t know the solution here, but if you are expecting other people to act as you would in a particular scenario, you are setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment. Ask me how I know this . . .

      I agree with setting up firm times to talk, just like it is an in-person date.

      Did you have discussions about communication while he is gone before he left? If not, now might be a good time to have one so that everyone is on the same page.

    • Why would you be so apologetic?

    • Since I’m often the person who is on travel, I thought I’d chime in. I’m also someone who likes to hear frequently from anyone I’m dating and easily feels insecure if I don’t. With that in mind…I often find it really really hard when on travel to stick to plans to call home at a particular time. Especially with time zone changes, calling home can often be really disruptive to the work social events, which, are both fun and very important for doing my job well. I often feel I have very little control over my time, and, even if I care about someone a lot, my head is in a different space and my day has a different rhythm. I think your best bet is to shift to communication forms that require being less in-synch time wise. For example, I love What’s App because we can leave short voice messages for each other, without worrying about whether we’ll wake each other up, etc. Emails and photos are also great. Maybe aim for one solid skype conversation a week, and non-synchronouse communication the rest of the time?

      Good luck!

      • Anonymous :

        Agree with this. I find it very challenging to call home when traveling for work, and I am always in the same country so the time zones aren’t that far off. I prefer texting in the evening or very early morning, but not during work hours.

    • Shenandoah :

      I know this feeling well based on different LDR experiences. I think the best solution is to first try and set up a regular time to Skype – whether that ends up being once a week, every few days, every night, etc. Establish the time and day and stick to it as much as possible – if someone needs to cancel, then arrange that beforehand as you would a regular date. It’s easier to fill in other life stuff around a regularly scheduled Skype date. A “let’s talk Monday or Tuesday” is pretty vague and easily falls through the cracks.

      But also I think you just have to get more comfortable going with the flow and accepting that you won’t always be able to connect as expected. It sounds like this is a temporary work gig and not a regular LDR-type set up so that should make it easier. Accept that your immediate reaction is one of disappointment but don’t dwell on it.

  13. Baby Shower Gift :

    Hey all – What is the recommended price range for a baby shower gift? Here are the details. Friend, not close. We live in different states so never really see each other any more. We don’t live in a major metro market.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m in a major metro market and do $25-30 whether I’m close or not for friends.

    • Anonymous :

      $35. Exactly.

    • $25-$35, except I went bigger-ticket for my best friend.

    • I usually spend $40-50 in a small, MCOL city. Based on the other responses, maybe I’m overspending.

    • I would spend whatever a giant box of size 1 or size 2 diapers costs.

    • Senior Attorney :

      I generally do $325-50 but I’m older and in a HCOL area so that may make a difference. I think $25-30 is fine. Look at the registry and find something fun. If it’s a close friend, all bets are off.

    • I often go lower, like in the $25 range, but I try to put some thought into it, like six-month clothes that will be seasonally appropriate when baby is six months old, or a baby thing that was life changing for me (miracle blanket, taggies toys).

  14. Anonymous :

    My husband’s colleague (not his boss but a senior colleague who is a mentor) and his wife invited us to dinner at their house along with another couple. What should we bring? I feel like the answer is wine but we are clueless about it (we don’t drink) and the couple that invited us is fairly into wine, so I feel like we won’t be able to get anything they’ll like (we’re also looking for something that costs around $25 or less and I’m not sure they drink wine that cheap).

    • Anonymous :

      A box of chocolates.

    • TorontoNewbie :

      Flowers. Excessively fancy chocolates. Or a bottle of prosecco.

    • Flowers that are already in a vase. Maybe some kind of dessert they can save for later. Macarons or fancy chocolate.

    • I like to bring flowers.
      It’s a nice gesture, but not disruptive to what they have planned to serve for food/drink
      And won’t hang around too long (ie not decor item).

    • Never too many shoes... :

      I feel like I say this every time, but have flowers delivered on the morning of the party so the hostess does not have to fuss with a vase when you arrive.

    • Have flowers delivered earlier that day or the next morning. If you’d really like to impress them, I like to either bring or make something for them to have for breakfast the next morning for themselves after cleaning up from the party (think nice croissants and jam/butter in a basket, muffins with jam/curd, scones, a quiche, etc.)

    • Senior Attorney :

      I’m into wine and I’d be happy with a $25 bottle. Go to the wine store and tell them your price range and they will help you pick out something nice. Or sometimes I just pick it out by the label/name. Like once time I got a bottle of 50 Shades of Gray wine for a girlfriend and she loved it. It was drinkable but that wasn’t even the point.

      Or you could do something wine-related like a set of wine charms.

      • I agree with all points, and I’m a huge wine drinker. $25 is totally respectable.

        • Wine fanatic here and agree that $25 is respectable — just go to a good wine store and ask for a rec. No Prosecco!

    • Macademia :

      I like the flowers idea. We are so into wine at our house that it is like bringing coals to Newcastle. The hubs even has a wine storage unit (or two). Anything but wine would be good if you were coming to our house.

  15. Has anyone found a good solution for redness on the back of your arms? I’m very very pale and struggle with KP. I already use Dermadoctor’s KP scrub and I’ve tried various lotions, like cerave, coconut oil, coconut butter, etc. The KP scrub + lotions keep the bumps away but I still have some blotchy redness around my triceps. Normally I don’t let it get to me, if this is how my skin wants to look then fine, but I’m getting married in a couple of months and the blotchiness is really bothering me when I go in for fittings. I’m OK with a short-term (read: pricey enough that I wouldn’t want to keep up with it) solution.

    • anonshmanon :

      For looking fantastic in my imaginary wedding dress, I’d probably go for some variety of fake tan. While that is totally my personal preference, it could also cover some of that redness in your case.

      • Spray tan is your best friend. I was another fair-skinned bride with some KP issues in a strapless dress, and some exfoliation and a spray tan solved all of my problems. I went to my known and trusted spray tan specialist, whom I use for all special events, so I knew it would look good, but if you don’t already have a person, I would go a few times before your wedding to find a place you like to ensure you look glow-y and not Jersey Shore-y.

        Also, CeraVe Renewing SA Lotion is another lifesaver product for KP.

    • a friend has this problem and is convinced going gluten-free solved it. I know that sounds a little out there, but perhaps worth a try? She tried many other topical remedies.

    • lucy stone :

      Have you tried Amlactin? That was a huge help for me. Also, consider a light spray tan. I did this a lot for big events in the past, although I didn’t for my wedding. I didn’t go Trump orange but a little extra color helped even things out.

      • +1 to Amlactin. It really evened out my skin tone.

      • +1. There is also a prescription version you can ask your dermatologist about that can save a little $ depending on your copays (Amlactin is a bit pricey over the counter)

    • BeenThatGuy :

      I ask my Dermatologist every time I see her about new medications for this condition. Every visit for the last 15 years. There’s nothing. She does recommend spray tans or light sun exposure (at your own risk obviously).

    • I struggle with this, too. :/ I’m jealous your bumps went away.

      Try the salux cloth washcloth, maybe dry brushing before showering?

      I’ve always wanted to try the at home microderm on the area.

    • I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I did a few tanning bed sessions before my wedding, in part to help with the blotchiness on my arms, in part just to look like I’d been out in the sun instead of inside studying all winter. I went maybe 6 times, and I promised myself it would only be for my wedding. I know it’s bad for you, and I haven’t been back since. I just don’t like the look of spray tans.

    • I’d do a spray tan or ask your makeup artist to use something like dermablend. You might also want to try some light laser therapy if your derm says its a good choice for you.
      I had two scoliosis surgeries with the ensuring long red scar down my spine. Not a big deal normally, but it made me insecure for formal events, especially as not a lot of people see/know that I have such a long scar. For my sweet 16 I did dermablend set with loose powder on the scar and it worked perfectly. Before my wedding I had the scar laser treated and the redness/raised appearance improved dramatically (this is 7 yrs ago, so the results are probably better now).

    • The only time mine cleared completely was when I stopped scrubbing and used amlactin lotion daily. I think scrubbing makes it worse (though that feels counterintuitive, I know)

    • Another KP Sufferer :

      I use Dermal Therapy Alpha Hydroxy Lotion. I have very visible KP on my arms and legs and I was depressed most of my teenage years and till mid twenties because of this condition. I must say it has changed my life. I heard Amlactin is also good. But I first used Dermal Therapy lotion and just stuck with it as it worked for me. I don’t know if it solves the redness problems in just two months, but bumps definitely go away with very less effort. All I do is apply the lotion like moisturizer every day right after shower when my skin is still wet. I let it absorb for like 5 mins before dressing up.

    • Stop with the physical exfoliant. It feels smoother at first, but all of the follicles will react poorly. Switch to very very simple gentle soap and water, Stidex extra-strength pad swipe over the back of each arm, and either a very thick hydrating cream (like the most intense Lubriderm you can get) or Amlactin if your skin can tolerate more chemical exfoliation.

    • full of ideas :

      Red and Bumpy Gold Bond is amazing! Put it on when your skin is still wet from a shower or bath (this was key for me). I saw reduced redness in a week and the bumps are pretty much gone now (about 3 weeks)

  16. Has anyone who loves international travel and exploring new places made it work with a long term partner who isn’t interested in travel beyond driving vacations to national parks (or similar)? He’s great otherwise but I’m not sure how to deal with this. I don’t mind some solo travel but makes me sad to think about limited family vacations or never sharing adventurous vacations with my partner.

    • Find friends to travel with! My husband loved travel but can’t due to health issues. I make the most of work trips and try to find friends who can go with me. (I do travel much less than I would otherwise, sadly)

      • This is a great idea. Trying to how imagine what it would be like with kids though. I’ve always wanted to save up and take them on an African safari when they are like 10-12 or something. I guess single parents manage so I could always take them while he stayed home?

        • Assuming you could afford to have another person travel with you, perhaps you could take a nanny on a trip like that?

        • I actually think kids would make it easier. I’m Anon at 10:24 and once we have a kid, I plan to let my DH off his “one international trip” commitment some years and do kid-centric trips like Australia and Africa. I still want to do some family vacations and some romantic getaways, but there will be some years the trip is just me + kid. We only want one though, which makes solo parenting on vacation a little easier.

        • Is he against that type of travel, or just not in to it? Because he may be down for a once-in-a-decade big trip like that– I’m assuming since you said save up and take the kids when they are 10-12 that this is not the sort of trip you envision taking every year.

          • Ideally, I would love to do one international family trip a year (a week or two in Mexico or Italy etc) and then a couples trip every couple years. Maybe a big/expensive/adventurous trip as the family or couples trip every 5 years? International travel isn’t too intimidating with one child but not sure I love travel enough to limit number of kids for that reason alone when I would otherwise want 2-3.

            Not sure if he would be on board with one big trip every 5 years or so? Daunted by taking kids on my own (even with nanny) in between. And missing out on international couples trips at resorts (vs. domestic camping).

    • It’s a deal breaker for me. It’s just such a difference in what we value, and I value international travel highly.

      • Thanks. I appreciate hearing someone else say that. Sort of what I was thinking. It’s not an obvious dealbreaker like religion or political views etc so I wasn’t sure of myself. I do think it’s a bit different from Anon at 10:18 whose DH cannot come along. In this case, he would be choosing not to spend time with me (or potentially our kids).

        • I think like all relationship deal breakers it’s just a personal thing. I don’t think there is anything wrong with preferring domestic travel, it’s just not how I live my life. I don’t think there is anything wrong with spending every Sunday watching football but it doesn’t work for me.

          • Baconpancakes :

            Yes. After my last relationship, I realized that 1) not being into the outdoors, and 2) not being super into food were deal breakers for me. Are they important, in the big picture? No, but they’re important to my happiness.

        • Senior Attorney :

          I think you’re allowed to have whatever dealbreakers you want. I think that would come close to being a dealbreaker for me, too.

    • ME! I do a combination of 1) twisting my husband’s arm and basically making him travel with me (we do 1 intl trip together per year and although he whines leading up to it, he enjoys it once we’re there and is a very pleasant travel companion), 2) friend travel – although I just got back from a pretty disastrous trip with friends so not sure how much more of that I’ll be doing, 3) traveling with my parents, either together or separately and 4) traveling solo. I would love to travel with my husband more, but I have made it work with one trip a year and then finding other people/myself for additional trips.
      I will say that if a guy would literally never go out of the country, that would definitely be a dealbreaker for me. There are too many destinations that are so romantic and that you just can’t experience in the same way with friends, parents or by yourself.
      Is he actually opposed to it or has he just never done it? Would he agree to try one trip and see how it goes?

      • I’d definitely be happy if he would agree to one international trip a year. He’s done one or two international trips but literally just wants to drive and set up his tent for vacations and I feel so stifled by that idea. I love learning new languages/trying new food/big history buff who loves visiting historical sites etc.

        • Nope! Also, I hate tents.

        • FWIW, my SO and I have a similar dynamic, right down to the tents. He has traveled internationally and enjoyed it, but it’s not a priority for him. Sometimes I get sad–I have a big work trip to Europe this summer, and it doesn’t look like he’s coming “because of work.” He has enough time to figure out the work commitments if he was willing to try. And it’s frustrating! I have free accommodations and offered to cover half of his plane ticket. In my dream world I’d be with someone who would be just as excited about that as I am. Like, I’m offering to take you to Europe for the cost of food and $500 towards a plane ticket, how are you not all over that?? With that said, we are taking our first joint international trip later in the summer for a family wedding in Mexico, so at least we’ll leave the US together. Baby steps, I guess.

          On the other side of the coin, our big vacation last summer was very “him.” We camped in a national park out west. As a lifelong East Coaster who had only been west of the Mississippi once previously, it did feel a little like visiting a new country–there were still new foods and interesting history. I really enjoyed it and we’re planning to do more western National Parks in the future. So it doesn’t have to be an either/or proposition. You could also look at doing outdoorsy things like camping or hiking abroad. One of my coworkers and his wife just finished the West Highland Trail in Scotland, and I have a friend who did Torres del Paine in Chile. Could he get excited about something like that?

          But yeah. We are still working this out for ourselves.

          • I have tried to suggest camping internationally – or even low key accommodations (glamping/cottages at camping sites) and that didn’t seem to entice him. He said recently that it’s the air travel he dislikes – not in an afraid to fly kind of way, but in a ‘want to drive my own car to get there’ way that I don’t understand at all. I can be pretty outdoorsy even though I love a good high end resort, but he just seems to have this narrow view of what a good vacation is.

          • He’s being ridiculous. I don’t enjoy air travel. Who the f*ck does? But it’s worth putting up with for an awesome experience. He can drive his own car to the airport and then rent a car the second he lands and still have a road trip experience.

            (Obviously I’m taking out a lot of my own pent up frustrations on your partner.)

          • Are you sure it’s not fear? I have a fear of flying that ebbs and flows (generally related to my anxiety levels in general), and when it’s bad, I hate the whole trip because I’m dreading the flight home. Maybe he just doesn’t want to admit how much of it is fear-based.

      • This is me…forcing/guilting my DH into a Paris trip. He’s also a great travel partner once he gets there. I think some of its just nervousness over unfamiliarity. Yay for work travel and trips with my Mom!

    • There’s a big gray area between someone who “isn’t interested” in international travel and someone who flatly refuses to do it. Will he go with you and be a good travel companion as long as you plan everything? I sort of think that’s something you’ll only know if you try.

      • This is true, but once you get married & have kids and life generally gets a lot more hectic, I think being able to prioritize becomes a lot more important. You’ll get fewer opportunities to travel and do adventurous things, and I think in order for you to keep doing them at the frequency you seem to want to, it likely has to be a priority for both of you. What if you only get one family vacation a year and your husband wants to take the kids to a national park or something similar? You may feel less able or inclined to travel with friends with more stresses in life, and if your partner isn’t willing to meet you half way, I think this is going to be hard.

        Fwiw, it would be a deal breaker for me.

    • That is a tough decision. Could you compromise and alternate vacation destinations? Fortunately, my DH and I both love traveling, but for me, part of the allure is spending time together 1:1 and really feeling carefree with each other (no cleaning, no bills, nothing to worry about!).

      Bringing camping gear doesn’t limit yourself to driving distance. If you are willing to do the tent thing, there are so many global destinations you can visit. We just did a 5 day trek in Chile (brought all our camping gear) but you could also do a few days in Santiago as well for the culture/history aspect. New Zealand has some amazing trekking. So do the national parks in both US and Canada. You could definitely do a combo of adventure and cosmopolitan in many places around the world.

      As a side note for PPs, I’ve been on safari (Tanzania and S Africa) and I wouldn’t say either of them are kid-centric destinations. My DH and I actually commented that we probably wouldn’t bring a kid until they are 13-14 since you literally spend 8 hours per day cooped up in a vehicle. Plus with malaria pills and the long flight, I just wouldn’t want to deal with it. Do it now before you have kids :)

      • I think it depends a lot on the kid. My eight year old has done several 12+ hour flights with no problem (we just bring a huge stack of books for her to read) and she would love to ride around all day looking at animals (and would read books if she got bored). If you have a kid that is a ball of energy and constantly needs to be running around and exercising, it might not work, but there are a lot of kids that would find a safari really interesting and are pretty content to sit all day, including mine. And she’s successfully taken malaria pills before. We’ve been talking about a safari with her for a couple years and plan to go within the next two years.

        • Yes is definitely a know-your-child situation.

          We did see a few older kids here and there during our safaris but it wasn’t common. But our tour company actually didn’t allow kids under 12 in Tanzania.

      • Thanks. Unfortunately he seems to avoid airtravel as well so not interesting in traveling with camping gear and camping internationally.

        Your post does make me want to go to Chile though!

    • Sounds like a control/anxiety issue (not saying he needs therapy, just suggesting maybe you could tease out some information that might help you help him). Like he wants everything to go a certain way and doesn’t believe it will unless he’s the one in charge of the conveyance “I have to drive!” and destination set up “and we will sleep in this tent! Which I will pack and then be in charge of setting up!” Flight delays or cancellations, hotel mix-ups, etc. aren’t an issue when you are in control of everything yourself.

      My husband is a very nervous traveler. Like we get to the airport three hours early and he’s a complete lunatic the days leading up to the trip and has to make sure everything is planned and perfectly thought out and boarding passes are printed and all that. Because WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG???? He hates not knowing what to expect, basically. Once we get to wherever we’re going, he’s fine and relaxes and enjoys himself. I try to be kind and supportive during his anxiety and grumpiness in the pre-travel phase, when I would usually push back on that.

      I get that you’re sad, but I’d try to compromise and be supportive, but also ask for what you want and say why you want it. You probably aren’t going to get everything you want, but you will get something.

      • Thanks, I hadn’t really thought of it as anxiety. Definitely gives me something to think about. He is generally miserable about packing for any kind of air travel (very rare work trips) but zilch anxiety about packing car for camping.

        • Which makes sense, because with camping he knows exactly what to expect and how to prepare for it. He knows what it’s like to sleep in that sleeping bag. Who knows what the hotel room on that business trip is going to be like??? It’s fear of the unknown. And that the unknown might suck. What if the bed is uncomfortable? What will he do then?

      • CPA Lady’s husband sounds exactly like me pre-flight. I love international destinations but hate the process of getting there. I’m not into staying outdoors like OP’s husband, but I would rather drive 10-14 hours than fly if flying will be (at least) 7-8 hours door-to-door.

        OP, are you in a location where you could start with international destination that you can reach via a direct flight? That helps my travel anxiety a lot.

        • I am definitely willing to limit travel to direct flights and do a road trip or camping trip when there but it’s like the mere idea of dealing with air travel makes him grumpy. I’ve become a bit obsessed with figuring out how to get to remote/outdoorsy/camping international locations with one flight only or a short additional flight/road trip but he’s not appealed.

          Not 100% sure this is a deal breaker but I think it might be if his attitude about it doesn’t change. I wouldn’t care if I had to do all the planning and he wasn’t ‘excited’. But the straight out opposition/grumpiness is really not allowing me to enjoy travel planning at all.

          • Anon at 11:52 is OP

          • Senior Attorney :

            Yeah, the grumpiness would be a dealbreaker for me.

          • I hear you. Planning and anticipating a trip are definitely part of the fun for me and not for my husband, who enjoys travel but is a very in-the-moment guy. I get a little sad when he cannot share the thrill 6 months before a vacation. If he were grumpy about travel and bringing me down, it would likely have been a deal-breaker for me.

          • If it’s not anxiety about flying/loss of control/fear of flying, his reluctance to travel by air may be somewhat fixable by throwing money at the problem, if that is an option. Esp. if he’s tall, flying coach/Economy Minus really is physically uncomfortable. Doesn’t excuse grumpiness, but it might be an option to move forward to buy Economy Plus/Comfort/Business if budget permits.

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          This is me too and just reading your post CPA lady is helpful. I have an absolute need to control everything and have a very hard time when I am not in control. Air travel is the ultimate “not in my control.” So, I have to plan every detail including where I sit. I take xanax when I travel too but I still get a lot of anxiety pre-trip and get inundated with all of these “what ifs.” My mother is like that too. I try to think about how annoyed I get with my mother and that I don’t want to act like that.

          I really would LOVE to be a chill go with the flow person but I just can’t do it. I agreed to a sort of spur of the moment thing with my husband recently. He’s going on a trip but getting there a few days before his friends for a bachelor party. He wants me to fly out and do cool stuff w/ him before the guys get there. I agreed and he booked it immediately so I didn’t have time to change my mind. Now I’ve been low level anxious for days. It is so stupid and annoying.

          That said, I have promised myself that I won’t let my anxiety stop me from doing things because I think that’s a slippery slope. It just sucks spending big chunks of vacation, that are meant to be relaxing, anxious. You come home needing a vacation from your vacation. I bet your husband wouldn’t enjoy the international camping trip because he’d spend half of it anxious for the flight home.

          • Same here. I love travel but have really bad anxiety, to the point that I get free-floating anxiety the week before and am nearly in tears sometimes just from being wound up for no apparent reason. I’ve figured out that it’s the pressure to make sure nothing goes wrong. My trips are awesome because of my superior planning skills. So then I get all tense about making sure nothing is missed, everything is packed. Kids made is worse- what if we forget rain jackets?!!!??? But I get better as soon as we are through security at the airport, and we’ve done several major trips in recent years, with kids, including SE Asia and Europe. And not even any Xanax for me. But god I think it would help.

    • Wildkitten :

      The former Mr. Kitten hated international travel and not having to deal with his attitude leading up to trips is one of the my favorite things about him being gone. When we were together I did a mix of traveling with friends and hounding him into travel and hounding was not fun. Scientists have decided that the best part of a trip for your happiness is the time you spend looking forward to it, and a partner who made that part of the trip hard was a real bummer.

      • “Scientists have decided that the best part of a trip for your happiness is the time you spend looking forward to it”

        I read The Pursuit of Happiness by Gretchen Rubin and she really emphasized that point. I feel like it’s robbing my joy of travel to not even be able to talk/dream about trips together.

        • Would he be open to planning a trip? Like he does the planning and you just come along for the ride? That way he has a lot more control over the process?

          • I tried that, but he’s not a big planner beyond picking about a park to visit and a campsite. When I mentioned that he could pick international location and plan and I’d go along, he just wanted to pick domestic park locations because he didn’t want to put effort into something that he wasn’t interested it. Writing that out, it sort of makes me realize that’s the core of the problem – he’s not willing to make himself a bit uncomfortable (travel anxiety or whatever) to make me really happy.

        • To be fair, it also sounds like you are not willing to make yourself a bit uncomfortable to make him really happy by camping in a national park. Why can’t you compromise and take some vacations he likes and some you like? If you insist upon only doing things your way, you will be depriving yourself and your children of some amazing experiences. An African safari is great, but so is standing at the top of a waterfall in Yosemite.

          • We went camping in a national park last summer. I’d like to do something different this year.

          • Anonattorney :

            Yeah, I kind of agree with this. What is your partner’s specific rationale for wanting to go to national parks vs. international travel? Is it because he prefers the outdoors to city vacations? Is it to save money? Is it to save time? All of those are legitimate preferences.

            Also, don’t knock it until you try it. The national parks are truly amazing. They also have some very beautiful lodges and hotels that you can stay at, with five-star dining. I think this is just an issue of compromise. My vote is to alternate trips.

          • Anonattorney :

            I posted before I saw OP’s response. If you did a trip for him last year, then it’s your turn to pick the destination.

      • On the flip side, my husband hates traveling and I feel like I get MORE enjoyment out of trip-planning vacations with him because I can do it all myself, totally throw myself into research, and have total control over where we eat and stay and what we do. It’s actually made travel with people other than my husband difficult because ceding any of these decisions to other people is hard for me now. But I am a bit of a control freak and kind of wish I had become a travel agent, so I probably get an unnatural enjoyment out of planning the logistics of travel.

        • thanks – can I ask how you make it work? Does he agree to a destination or just a certain week and you pick the destination? I actually love travel planning and reading up on the literature and history of different places so I wouldn’t mind if it was all on my shoulders but I can’t get him to agree to a destination or date. He just keeps saying, can’t we go camping or spend a few days in neighboring slightly larger city?

          • Anon at 12:01 :

            For my husband, a lot of the resistance is cost – e.g., why spend $10k going to Europe when we could spend $2k on a domestic trip? So although he has a general idea what our vacations cost (and I would clear it with him if I wanted to do something that wildly exceeded our typical budget), I typically don’t give him any specific info about prices. He prefers this.

            Another thing is just being persistent. He enjoys spending time with me, but would much rather road trip to a nearby city than go to Europe. So I’ll pick a destination/time of year and say “Hey, I want to go Italy for one week in May – what dates are you free?” and then he’ll say “Can’t we just go to Memphis for a long weekend?” and I’ll say “I’m happy to go to Memphis any time, but I also really want to go to Italy this year, and I think May makes the most sense for XYZ reasons. If there’s a reason May doesn’t work, then we can go in June.” and eventually I get him to give me the dates that work for him, and I just plan the trip. I don’t talk to him much when I’m planning. I get a lot of enjoyment just from the planning, without sharing anything, but if I do need to share, I do so with a few close girlfriends who travel at least as much as I do (so it doesn’t come across as braggy).

            He’s a lovely travel partner when we’re on the trips themselves. He just has some resistance to booking the trip because he doesn’t see international travel as worth it when we could travel locally for a lot less money.

          • Thanks – I may try something like this for the trip I’m currently wanting to plan and make some bigger/longer term decisions there after. I could definitely live with it if he’d agree to a date and I had to plan everything.

        • Anonymous BigLaw Associate :

          We plan vacations the same way. But our reason is more that I like planning, my husband doesn’t, and he trusts me to do it well. We basically agree on a time and destination and then I go to town.

    • I’m late to this thread, but I have to say, your man sounds controlling. Is this true in other areas of your relationship? My way or the highway?

      The travel thing might not be a deal breaker for me but the controlling thing? Oh my yes.

      Been there, done that. Controlling behavior is not like fine wine – it does not improve with age.

    • Anonymous :

      I alternate choosing destinations with my partner. It’s only fair and I’ve gone to some places that I think could have been a more exciting use of time, but on the plus side he goes to mine. And it’s opened his eyes a little, at least!

    • Is he afraid of flying? My husband is like, cripplingly afraid of flying. He’s an a-hole the few days before a flight, because he’s so scared. And then he takes some anti anxiety drugs on the plane and is better. But I wonder if that is at play here at all.

    • What about traveling does he not like? My husband isn’t really into it, but if I do all the planning (which I don’t mind) and pick things he’s into (which are similar to the things I’m into) then he’ll happily go and have a good time. But he won’t take the initiative at all so if I want to travel, I know it is all on me.

  17. No Problem :

    Seeking food blog suggestions. I’m trying to make one new recipe per week this year and need some new ideas. I’m already following Smitten Kitchen and Nom Nom Paleo but need a wider selection. Open to any and all recipes, cuisines, and styles of cooking…so far I’ve done meatballs, crepes, a steak salad with dressing, a chicken dish, and a soup.

    • (Former) Clueless Summer :

      I love Skinny Taste (not a WW person but she has great recipes that are perfect for week-night dinners), Oh She Glows (better for looking in archives, she doesn’t seem to post a lot anymore), Paleomg and a Pinch of Yum.

    • Serious Eats, Joy the Baker, No Recipes

    • I love The Woks of Life.

    • Love Half-Baked Harvest. Many are more weekend than week-night, time-wise, but her photography is beautiful and I like everything I’ve made from her.

    • I like Simple Bites, her brown rice pilaf (with different spices) has become a staple of my weeknight dinners.
      Also: her tourtiere is (almost) as good as memere’s!

    • These are some where I consistently find good, repeat recipes.

      Budget Bytes
      Iowa Girl Eats
      Mels Kitchen Cafe
      Gimme Some Oven

      • Also, these are some I follow and have saved recipes, but haven’t made a lot of them yet.

        Annie’s Eats
        Cooking Classy
        Kalyns Kitchen
        Once Upon A Chef
        Simply Recipes

      • +1 for Budget Bytes! She’s great. I usually increase the salt in her recipes, though, as she’s in a healthcare field and tends to under-salt, in my opinion.

      • brokentoe :

        +1 Mel’s Kitchen Cafe

    • Senior Attorney :

      I can’t vouch for the quality of the recipes, but Thug Kitchen cracks me up.

    • FrankieCat :

      Thursday Kitchen and Dinner, A Love Story are two of my faves. The recipes aren’t specifically gluten free, paleo, or even low calorie, etc,. and they do take some work but they are always winners at home and at dinner parties.

      • +1 to Dinner, A Love Story. Also recommend 100 Days of Real Food for good recipes, whether or not you do anything else based on her recommendations.

    • Maybe a little late, but I LOVEEEEE What’s Gaby Cooking. Her recipes really run the gamut, she gives “meal plans” for the week, so you don’t have to think about what to make. I like that she does a little bit of everything, not veering too much into “25 of pretty much the same ‘healthy’ recipe” but mixes it up. I also just really like her personality. There is no holier-than-thou about her that I found irritating in some other bloggers. Really cannot recommend enough.

      Oh! And another reason I like her is that her style of cooking is pretty laidback, too, not excessive ingredients and steps that make you burn something while chopping something else, just pretty simple.

    • Damn Delicious

  18. I lost one of my gloves that I wear with my knee length black puffer. Where can I get a good nice pair on sale now? Not sporty nylon gloves, but sleeker work gloves.

    This is the coat I wear to work daily when the weather is in the 20’s or 30’s in Chicago. So they should be warm, but I have warmer gloves to wear when it is closer to zero.

    Also, does anyone have a pair of glove liners they love for very cold days?

    • TorontoNewbie :

      These are not on sale, but since you’re in the states with the dollar the way it is, it’s almost like a sale? They’ve been my favourite gloves for 4 years now, going strong.

      • Great selection. I would have never thought to look there!

        Since my other pair of (warmer) gloves is a shearling pair, I’ll probably go the leather/cashmere route for these. But the La Canadienne’s look nicer than mine…..

    • Shopaholic :

      I got really nice leather tech cashmere lined gloves from Nordstrom. They’re relatively warm but not the gloves I wear when it gets really cold.

    • I’ve been on a gloves mission since losing my favorite pair this year. I like cashmere-lined leather gloves. They were super cheap at Lord & Taylor on sale, but the gloves are not so nice, and the cashmere is scratchy. So I ordered my second pair of Brooks Brothers gloves, and they are just perfect. Expensive, but on sale as of a couple weeks ago, at least.

      • I hear you. The quality of leather/cashmere gloves can vary wildly.

        They are gorgeous. Are they warm? Where do you wear them (ie how cold is the weather)?

  19. Hawaii--- Which Island? :

    Traveling this spring to Hawaii. I know some recommendations have been posted here before, but can I solicit some more? Best island — just one, and not Maui because some of us have been there and want to try something new. Considering Kauai now, specifically Poipu Bach. Anyone been there?

    Our group includes 2 college students and a 2.5 year old, and will likely do a VRBO condo or similar. Walks/hikes, snorkeling / diving, and lying on beach are the desired activities (as permitted with a toddler!)

    Thanks for any recs!

    • Big Island – Kona area. The snorkeling is terrific. Volcanoes National Park has some nice hiking opportunities. I like Kauai, but the snorkeling is definitely not as good there as the Big Island or Maui.

    • History lover :

      Man, Oahu gets no love here! But it is fantastic, esp. if you like history and museums (and also hiking and beaches).

      • I love Oahu – because less travel – I mean, you’re already flying to Oahu usually, adding an inter-island flight sounds horrible. But I’m also biased (grew up there), so you can have a totally wonderful vacay without being in Waikiki ever. Tons of food/hiking/beaches. :)

        But Kona is magical and I really want to get to Kauai soon.

        • I live in the bay area and have flown to both Maui and Kauai in recent years with no island hopper leg, direct non-stops both ways.

          But I wonder if you think next time we go to Kauai we should spend a few days in Oahu. What specific things would you recommend and where to stay? I don’t look at going to Hawaii as a “city” vacation, so I assume we’d stay somewhere far from Honolulu?

        • Depending on where you’re coming from, you can fly direct to the other islands though.

    • I was just in Kauai for my honeymoon, and loved it. However, there’s a fair amount of driving to get to hikes, particularly if you stay in Poipu. Also, the snorkeling was mediocre. I’d second Kona.

    • BeenThatGuy :

      +1 to Poipu Beach. Kauai is laid back and quiet but you can still do all the things you mentioned you were interested in. I stayed at the Grand Hyatt. Worth every darn penny.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Kauai, Poipu. Hands down. We stay at Outrigger when we go. Condo, you have your own kitchen and they’re 1-2 bedrooms. A little bit worn down, but absolutely passable nonetheless, and the beach is wonderful.

      Yes, there’s driving to get to hikes, but every single drive on that island is breathtakingly gorgeous. If you’re driving along Na’Pali, you can see Niihau in the distance. If you’re driving to the North Shore, it’s like you’re in a different country from South Shore, and the views of the mountains once you reach Hanalei are one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. It felt like I was in a movie. Waimea Canyon is a cannot miss.

      I love Kauai.

    • We loved Kauai. Lots of hiking. I also found it more affordable compared to Maui and Oahu. The whole island has a really chill vibe and felt like the “Hawaii” we were looking for.

      That said, if you are going to swim/snorkel, it’s not the best as many of the beaches are unsafe for swimming because of currents. Maui was my favorite for that.

    • I LOVE Kauai and Poipu beach. There are condos near Poipu beach if those are he ones you’re thinking of. Things to know – Poipu beach is popular and can be crowded. You’ll need a car, nothing in Kauai is really walking distance. There are chickens everywhere, which I love, but are not everyone’s cup of tea. Visit old town Koloa for sure. The food trucks there are great.

      I liked the big island too but I’d always go back to Kauai. For me Kauai is like being in Hawaii but also like being out in the country. It has some pretty resorts but it’s not one after another like Maui.

    • I’ve spent a lot of time in and around Poipu and I love it. It isn’t a real nightlife place, but is great for outdoors activities.

      I can’t tell how large your group is – is it just the 2 college students and a toddler, or is it more? – but the Parrish Collection has beautiful houses & condos. It’s nice to have a home base and a kitchen. My extended family had a reunion last year and stayed in 2 houses in the Kukui’ula Makai collection, and they were amazing. Also, Baby Beach is very close, which is good for a toddler, and Kiahuna Beach often has napping harbor seals, which is fun to see!

    • Anonymous BigLaw Associate :

      I an in CA so we frequently go to Hawaii for vacation. (Full disclosure-I am obsessed with Hawaii and plan to retire there.)

      Kauai is my favorite island because of the variety of things to do there, and it feels much more tropical island and less like the US (but without losing the amenities the US offers). I have stayed in both Poipu and Princeville, and liked both but prefer Princeville because it is quieter, although Poipu is sunnier and definitely not loud by any means. The Westin there in Princeville has nice condos that are in a resort, so you get the benefits of a resort (pools, restaurants, etc.) and the benefits of a condo (kitchen, more privacy). Seeing Waimea Canyon via helicopter is amazing. And I HIGHLY recommend Captain Andy’s catamaran tours (and I am not one for guided tours).

      Big Island would come #2. Really liked staying in Waikaloa (did a condo there too). Very sunny and dry in this part of the island. Stargazing at Mauna Kea was great (you can drive there yourself), as was driving past Hawi to hike to the black sand beach. Also did a catamaran tour here and snorkeling off the boat at Captain Cook’s lighthouse was amazing.

      Maui comes third for me. Have stayed in both Kapalua and Kanapaali. I really really like the condo community in Kapalua. Snorkeling at Kanapaali was great, and hiking Haleakala was amazing (although a drive).

      Oahu is fourth, although I stayed in Waikiki and do want to try staying in West Oahu instead. This was more of a city vacation for us, so pretty different than the others.

  20. Skin check? :

    Posted this yesterday a bit late, so asking again…

    I have not had my skin checked in a while and should probably go — I’m Mediterranean and wear spf everyday, but still would like to go for all the reasons stated in the previous threads.

    My question is – I am getting married in May and am wearing a strapless dress. Is it …wrong to wait until after the wedding to do an appointment? If I have something removed, I wouldn’t want a scar. On the other hand, if there was something wrong that required removing, I would want it removed and treated asap. As I’m writing this, I am thinking I should just schedule it now. Thoughts?

    One more thing — I scar easily. If I have a regular old pimple (treated by a facialist), there is a pink mark for some 5 months after.

    • Make the appointment.

      Even if they find something, unless it’s growing aggressively, you can probably wait until you’re done the wedding to have it removed but at least you can keep an eye on it in the meantime. Or it may be in an area totally covered by your dress.

    • My dermatologist gets booked up MONTHS in advance. Call now. Ask. You also don’t have to have anything removed that you don’t want to — why are you concerned you would be forced to remove something before the wedding? Do you have specific spots you’re concerned about? If so, make an appointment ASAP! If not, make the appointment for whenever you want, and if you need something removed, you can always schedule that for after the wedding.

    • Make the appointment now for peace of mind. If something needs to be removed, it may not even be in an area exposed by your dress. Depending on severity/concern level of doctor, you can feasibly schedule the removal (which takes 2 seconds BTW) for post- wedding if you really, really need to postpone it. But, you are right – you need to make the appointment and go now. For all you know you’ll have a clean bill of health and this thinking is all for nothing!

    • Make the appointment now. You probably won’t be able to get in until after your wedding anyway.

    • make the appointment! Even with the slight chance that you’ll find something that needs to be removed asap, a pink mark can easily be covered with some industrial-strength concealer.

    • Make the appointment! I actually just did (my first check in like 5 years, whoops) and the first available “general scan” was July.

    • Voice of dissent. If they remove something, even if it’s not visible, that’s 3 weeks (assuming it’s benign, more if it’s not) no exercise/dancing/swimming until stitches are out, which you don’t want pre-wedding or on the day of/honeymoon.

      I look at it as, it would be quite a stroke of luck that arbitrarily choosing now to go would make a big difference, unless you have a new and specific concern. Make it for a couple weeks after you’re back.

  21. DH and I have been feeling the winter doldrums lately, and last night we spontaneously booked a trip to Cuba in a month or so! (Spontaneous in that we finally bit the bullet. . . we have been wanting to go for a while). Anyone been? Recommendations? What to bring, expect, wear? We are planning on staying in a casa/B&B, bringing enough cash, brushing up on some Spanish, etc. . . .

    • (I should add, we’re aware that we will need to structure this as an educational interpersonal trip – so are trying to organize some local experiences, as we’re not going with a tour group).

    • Check out G Adventures – Canadian small group tour agency that has trips to Cuba – good inspiration for places to visit/travel times/iternaries etc.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      I have been a few times but we stay all-inclusive. I will say, however, that Havana is an *amazing* city with so much beauty and history and Cubans are extremely friendly. The food is, ok. Cuban cuisine is quite bland but the coffee is excellent and the fish is fresh.

    • I just went to Havana! It’s a fascinating place. A few things that surprised me – a lot of the toilets don’t have seats and toilet paper, so I would pack some toilet paper, especially if you plan be out of your hotel all day and using public bathrooms. Also they apparently don’t sell tampons in Cuba and even pads can be difficult to obtain (! I didn’t find this out the hard way, but a girl in my tour group did…) so definitely pack your products of choice if you anticipate needing them. You definitely need tons of cash, since ATM and credit cards don’t work.
      As far as clothing, Cuba is not a very religious country, so you basically wear whatever you would wear in Miami. No need to cover up for modesty, just dress for the weather.
      In general I found the food disappointing, but we were on a group tour and didn’t have choice about where we went and what we ordered for the most part. El Aljibe was my favorite restaurant in Havana. They have a famous chicken in garlic sauce that is really excellent.

    • We’re going to Cuba next month, too! So, I don’t have any recommendations yet. We aren’t going in a group, but we had our activities organized by Southern Star Travel. They are a small company that focuses on responsible and sustainable travel. I usually make all the arrangements myself, but because my husband and I both work for the government, and because we are both shy introverts, I wanted someone else to make sure we meet the legal requirements and to facilitate all the cultural connections we’re supposed to be making with the Cuban citizens.

      Southern Star Travel has a small list of things to bring to share with the locals, things that are hard to come by due to the embargo. (I can’t access the website from work or I would just tell you what they are.) You’ll then have more space in your suitcase to bring back souvenirs. I’ve heard that Cuban women do not worry about modesty when they dress, so short shorts and dresses are definitely OK.

    • anon prof :

      Bring anything you might want in terms of medicine, toiletries, clothes, etc. It’s hard to buy much of anything there except handicrafts. It’s not like most other countries where you can run out to a drug store to buy something if you forgot to pack it. Caphillstyle had a post asking for advice on traveling to Cuba a few months ago, and it might be worth reading the comments on it.

      • Wildkitten :

        I went and packed a months worth of toilet paper on the recommendation that nowhere in Cuba has toilet paper and I used like 1/10th of what I packed. By all means, bring a couple kleenex pocket packs, but you don’t need to pack all the TP you could possibly use. You do need to pack the rest of toiletries you might want.

        • Wildkitten :

          And do pack plenty of imodium.

        • Anonymous :

          The hotel bathrooms will certainly have TP, but many restrooms in public areas don’t (including the airport!). So I would bring more than a packet of Kleenex. A roll or two should be sufficient though, unless you normally go through it really fast.

        • Pack lots and leave it for Cubans! Toilet paper, soap, ibuprofin and other drugstore goods are in short supply.

    • SF Girl by the Bay blog just did a couple of posts on going to Cuba, too – might be worth checking out.

    • Anonymous :

      If you have a sensitive stomach, be very careful about not eating ice, raw fruits or veggies (unless they can be peeled), only drink coffee or tea if the water is super hot and keep your mouth and eyes shut tightly in the shower. I have been to Southeast Asia and Africa without incident, but I got sick in Cuba.

  22. Rory Gilmore :

    I’ve seen some Gilmore Girls discussion here so I was hoping you all could weigh in. I decided to watch the show after several good friends went crazy about the new episodes. I’m currently on season 6. I know that most fans were upset about how awful Rory was in the reboot. Watching the series, though, she seems pretty awful. I didn’t really get the Rory love even pre-rekindling with Dean, but after her comment comparing her time in jail to MLK, I’m not sure I can continue with the series. I’m basically just hate-watching in the hopes that something terrible happens to her. Anyone else feel the same? Is it worth continuing with the series or should I skip to the reboot?

    • Haven’t watched, so grain of salt, but my understanding from conversations I’ve hear/articles I’ve read is that Rory was pretty much the same in the reboot as she was in the original series, but lots of college age kids are obnoxious and awful and the complaining regarding the reboot was fueled by the fact she hadn’t matured in the 10 year gap.

      • Another difference is that when she did bad things in the original series, people called her out on it. When she lost her virginity to a married Dean, her mom hit the roof and it created a big rift between them for a few episodes. In the revival, she’s sleeping (ongoing, not a onetime mistake) with an engaged guy – while in a relationship of two years with someone else – and not one person calls her out on this as bad behavior. That was one of the things that bothered me the most.

        • +1, as a 20-something these kind of mistakes are usually due to immaturity/inexperience. As a 30 something, no, just no. It isn’t cute, it isn’t adorable, grow the heck up already, get a real job, and stop mooching off your rich family. And get off my lawn! ;)
          Sorry – obviously I have a lot of feelings about Rory. I was a few years older than her when the series aired and I am just so annoyed that the writers seemed to intentionally write her as making 20-something choices when she’s well into her 30’s and should know better – or at least have someone to tell her to get a grip and grow up!

    • anonshmanon :

      If you are not smitten with her already, it won’t get better in the reboot.
      I had to search for that comparison that you mention (“So I spent the night in jail. Big deal. So did Martin Luther King.”). If an offhanded ironic remark (not seriously equating her experience with MLK’s) throws you off, this is the wrong show for you.

    • Eh. I was a huge fan when I was in HS/college (so the same age as Rory), but when I recently rewatched it and the watched the reboot, I felt pretty done with it. Definitely understood why my mother hated me watching it. There were some scenes that were good to me (Emily’s story line was the best by far), but everything else felt a bit like a rehashing and nothing had changed that much regarding Rory and Lorelei.

    • Rory definitely becomes worse once she starts at Yale. Seasons 1 – 3 were much better for her, and starting in season 4 she starts to get stuck-up. To me, her redeeming qualities in the later seasons are her empathy for others and her hard work towards her goals. I think she COMPLETELY loses those in the reboot, which is why she is SO awful then. If you already don’t like her in season 6, you will have a really hard time watching the reboot.

    • I re-watched some of the old series recently after watching the reboot. Rory in the reboot is season 6 Rory. (Incidentally, Logan in the reboot is also season 6 Logan). Season 7 was done by different writers than the rest of the series and the reboot, and I think Rory and Logan showed some personal growth in season 7 that isn’t reflected in the revival.

      It’s disheartening, though, to realize that the 2016/32-year-old version of Rory is basically what ASP had planned for her at 23-24.

      • This was my single biggest problem with the revival. Season 7 had some terrible things (that Lorelei-Christopher marriage!?) but it also brought a lot of character and career growth for Rory and Logan, and it was really disappointing to see that completely ignored.

      • Also, I think Rory peaked in high school.

    • Anonymous :

      I think part of the charm of Gilmore Girls was watching it as a teenager and identifying with an awkward, bookish Rory trying to fit in and succeed. She starts off charming and Stars Hollow is great, but by the time she’s at Yale, it’s painful to watch her.

  23. Recipe organizing? :

    Any easy tips for organizing recipes- I often take screen shots of things online. I’d like to get everything in one place, one device, and prefer having them printed- although I could do the iPad in ziplock bag trick in the kitchen I guess…trying to go vegetarian/veganish, and needing recipes handy!

    • Recipe organizing? :

      Also if anyone had a favorite vegetarian cookbook that doesn’t rely on eggs and cheese too much- trying to find more low carb, low glycemic bean/ grain type ideas

    • I have a notebook in Evernote titled Recipes and in that notebook I have notes for different recipe types – chicken, fish, side dishes, etc. I follow a lot of food blogs so if I see something I like, I copy/paste the URL into the appropriate note.

    • Honestly I just got a three-ring binder and a stack of page protectors. Anything I make more than once goes into the binder, organized by recipe type. The page protectors mean I can have them out on the counter and the recipes are protected from splatters.

      If it’s an online recipe, I either print it out or copy by hand.

      • Same here. I like to meal plan for the week so when I’m really on top of things, I’ll pull out all the recipes I’m using and stick them to the fridge for easy access. Though I need to bust out the dividers and do a better job of organizing the notebook itself.

      • I do this too.

      • Same. I bought a cheap, but colorful and cute, binder on Amazon, plus 100 sheet protectors. I organized the recipes into 5 categories with binder dividers (I splurged on the plastic ones because they’re sturdier). So far so good. Easy to swap recipes in and out.

    • Baconpancakes :

      I did Evernote for a while, but it’s so labor intensive and fiddly, I gave up and went back to Pinterest. Once in a blue moon, the recipe disappears because someone’s site expires, but it’s incredibly rare.

      I’m using AnyList for groceries now, and the paid version has a recipe uploader that lets me automatically load the recipe and thus the groceries into the app, and I’m pretty happy with that right now.

      • I’m also using AnyList!

        You can still upload recipes and ingredients to the free version of the app, but it’s more labor intensive. But, considering I make may of the same things over and over, it’s not a huge deal to me to do a little more work entering the recipe the first time.

    • Paprika is an excellent app for organizing recipes if you don’t mind a digital format. It costs $5 but it is totally worth it. All you have to do is copy & paste the link to a recipe and it does everything else for you. It’s searchable and you can add notes (“Anjali’s birthday cake” etc.) to remind yourself of when you made something. I love it.

      • I use OneTsp for this and love it. Very easy to “clip” electronic recipes from online.

      • nom de anon :

        +1 for Paprika

        I’ve used it for several years and agree that it’s totally worth it. Also, it syncs across devices (desktop as well as iOS and android), so even if you’re finding stuff on your phone and computer, it can all go in one place. I think there is a print option for recipes, so if you want a printed back up that could be an option; plus then everything would be in a consistent printed format, instead of random screenshots.

        Other stuff I like: I make a lot of adaptations and tweak ingredients frequently, so I like the ease of editing in a digital formal and having searchable notes. The app will also automatically scale recipes for you, which is particularly nice if you want to adjust things to a weird size (like multiplying everything by 3 2/3 when I wanted to bake an extra large batch for the holidays but didn’t quite have quite enough flour to quadruple it). There’s also a grocery list feature that I use a lot, especially when testing out new recipes or adaptations. It has a pretty flexible organization scheme with completely customizable categories, which I really like, but since everything is searchable you could basically ignore it and have a flat list instead.

    • I have had an old school recipe card box that takes standard size index cards for years. I make lots of things I find on the internet. A recipe makes it into the box only if I’ve made it and loved it and wanted to make it again. I hand write the recipe on the card with any adaptations I’ve made and with less detailed instructions.

    • Vegetable Lover :

      If your handwriting is good I just use a little A5 3 ring binder and jot things down. Though you can run A5 paper through most printers pretty easily. I just thing regular binders are too big. I am a wealth of vegetarian and vegan information though (9 years as a vegetarian, transitioned to vegan this year). So if you’re interested I can compile a reference guide of sorts

    • Senior Attorney :

      Heh. I print out the recipes I like and shove them in a manila folder, then leaf through when I need to find something. Basically no system at all! (I do have a separate folder for holiday recipes.)

      I have been wanting to put my recipes online but everything seems so fiddly. Maybe Pinterest is my best bet.

      • I have a straight up binder. Like a nerd. Page protectors and all.

        I’ve got it loosely organized by category (main — sides, etc) and then by main ingredient within the categories.

        I also have many of my recipes uploaded onto AnyList, my grocery app, but it find it kind of satisfying to leaf through my binder when I’m meal planning.

    • I collect recipes in Pocket, which I then open up on my Kindle in the kitchen. I add recipes to Pocket from my iPhone and my desktop browser. After I’ve cooked the recipe once and decided whether it is a keeper, I tag it as a “fave.” Possibly if I wanted to, I’d print out my faves and put them in paper protectors in a binder.

  24. Oh, I love my system! First read about it in Real Simple. Basically, I have 3-ring binders in different colors for each part of the meal (dessert, vegetables, bread, appetizers, etc.). Then, within each binder, I have tabs for the various components (e.g. beef/chicken/pork/fish or asparagus/beans/cauliflower). Then, recipes are put into the clear sheet protectors, usually, with a sheet of white copy paper behind them. If I have a bunch of recipes of one kind (e.g. lots of types of chili), they all go into that page protector – or multiple ones, all labeled at the top “Chili.” I’ve put all recipes I love in there, including from various cookbooks, my mom’s recipes, cutouts from the paper, and printouts from online (cut to take up less room). It’s time-consuming to set up, but it’s so easy to use now. And my husband can find recipes that we use frequently really easily. And you can just snap open the binder and remove that page and cook with it, and the page protector keeps the recipes from getting splattered. And you can photocopy the recipe right through the page protector, if someone wants a copy. Totally love this system. Hope this is helpful.

    • Wildkitten :

      I use evernote in a similiar way. It hasn’t worked because of my inertia against cooking, but if you like to cook it would totally work very much like this binder concept.

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