Splurge Monday’s TPS Report: Fluted Wool Pencil Skirt

Red Work Skirt: Fluted Wool Pencil SkirtOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Wow — you’ve got to watch the video on Net-a-Porter to truly appreciate how classy and graceful this skirt looks. For some reason it calls to mind actresses from the ’40s like Lauren Bacall, but I think it looks 100% appropriate for today’s office. I love it as styled with a simple white blouse and nude-for-her heels, but I’d also wear it with a black top and purple heels in the fall, and call me crazy but I think it would look great for an evening out with an orange top (this affordable one is really cute). The skirt is $1,090. Oscar de la Renta Fluted Wool Pencil Skirt

Here’s a lower-priced alternative and a plus-size option.

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Comments

  1. GM, Hive! Is there a place to buy a wedding dress? I don’t mean a fancy salon where you overpay and then wait months. Can’t you just try a dress on and take it home? Thanks!

    • Not states-based but I always admired the BHLDN dresses as well as JCrew. I ended up ordering mine direct from China which was a bit of a gamble but paid off.

    • Young professional :

      Try Nicole Miller, J. Crew, BHLDN, or a department store with a wedding boutique

    • on the off chance you are in or near the Boston area, VOWS in Watertown, MA is like the TJ Maxx of wedding dresses. You can take them home same day. They are generally more mainstream sizes (most are wedding dress size 6 to 12), but do have a decent selection of smaller and larger sizes.

      • my sister, best friend and I have all gotten our dresses there. I paid $500 for a two-years-out-dated Reem Acra gown (sticker price allegedly $6500); my sister got a gorgeous dress from a designer whose name escapes me for $700 (sticker price $2500); friend spent $1000 on a maggie sotero dress she saw in a regular bridal boutique this season for $3500.

      • Diana Barry :

        YES, my sister and I both got dresses there. The sticker on my dress was $8K and I paid $1800, my sister paid about $1500 for hers, I forget the designer.

    • Anonymous :

      Not really a take it home from the store kind of thing – that’s rare. Usually they have to ship it to you bc they only make them when they are sold – they don’t pre make them and have them lying around. Too much fabric and expense to do that.

    • Anonymous :

      David’s Bridal? (I don’t know why but I think David’s Bridal gets a bad rep). You’ll be limited in the selection of gowns you can take home, but when I “ordered” my dress from them it took 2 weeks to come (I think they said up to 8 — but really it took 2 weeks). And yes, BHLDN or a Jcrew store if you’re in DC (not sure where they have other jcrew wedding shops).

      • Yea I got mine from David’s Bridal for $750.

      • Oh I forgot to add, if it doesn’t bother you, see if there are any wedding consignment stores in your area (there usually are in larger cities). You can take home a designer gown. Downside is that it will have already been tailored to the previous owner so it may be too short or taken in at odd spots (compared to your body).

      • lost academic :

        Because your location very much controls how your experience there is and even what you can get. There are many locations, in my personal experience and in my friends/family’s, that employ very pushy, judgmental staff who will prevent you from looking or even trying on what you want, degrade you while you’re trying things on, constantly physically push accessories and other items you don’t need or want while you’re just trying to get in or out of a dress, and refuse to order dresses in your size/length even if available. Some locations are the opposite of this, but there’s a wide variance in experience from great to hands down awful.

        • The number one accessory pushed that I truly didn’t understand while wedding dress shopping was a “wedding purse” I must have looked insane as I responded back, “it’s possibly the one day I don’t have to carry things!”

      • I got mine at David’s for $299, then another $50 for minor alterations. Went to the Manhattan store on 6th Ave with my mom. The assistant was kinda busy, so she left my mom and me alone, which was what I wanted. Experienced no hassle and was very happy with my dress and the pricing.

      • Ditto for David’s Bridal too! And I was glad because I needed another size – too many engagement celebrations! :) And they accommodated. No alterations needed, so they were ok with letting my exchange.

    • You can try looking for sample sales. Or like others have said, J. Crew. Also, Nordstrom has a few )I think?) stores with “wedding salons”. I tried on bridesmaids dresses at the one on Long Island.

    • So BHLDN doesn’t let you take it home, but as long as it is in stock, you place the order then-and-there and it ships immediately. I tried on dresses on a Friday, picked the one I wanted, and I had it in my hands the following Thursday (6 days later).

    • Mine was a white evening dress I ordered from Nordstrom. It didn’t even require tailoring, which was awesome. I ordered many styles from lots of places until I found one I loved— Bluefly, Saks, Neiman Marcus, BCBG… it was fun. And very low stress.

      If it doesn’t have to be a “wedding gown” your options are endless!

    • If you buy it in on consignment you do this. There’s a great shop called Fabulous Frocks in DC (well, NoVa) that does just this)

    • The store “Lovely Bride” has in-stock dresses

    • Aunt Jamesina :

      I shopped at Nicole Miller, J.Crew, BHLDN, and higher-end department stores for my dress (Nieman’s, Lord and Taylor, Bloomingdale’s, and Nordstrom). I also expanded my dress search to light-colored formal dresses and not just wedding dresses. You could also check out Net-a-Porter and the like online.

      • Thank you all! Can’t wait to check these out!

        • If you’re in SF, LA, Chicago or NY there is a brick-and-mortar store called “Glamour Closet” that sells bridal gown samples from various designers — from the SF location, at least, they look gorgeous.

  2. If I email a few people from my college’s career network for informational interviews, should I expect a low response rate?I sent out a few recently and I haven’t heard back from anyone, whereas previously when I’ve connected with people I’ve always received a response usually in 24 hours or less (which I realize is probably unrealistic to expect in general), but these weren’t cold calls.

    I guess I’m wondering whether I should reach out to more people if I’m kind of on a timeline.

    • Anonymous :

      Why are you on a timeline for informational interviews?

      • Would knowing that change your answer to the above? Obviously I’m not saying anything to that effect in the email.

        • Anonymous :

          I generally don’t respond to requests for informational interviews where it seems that the sender is not genuinely interested in learning about my (quite specialized) field and is instead blasting out tons of requests in the hope of getting a back-door job interview. Factors that will make me more likely to respond: A referral from a person I know, a mention of an article I’ve authored or a presentation I’ve made, statements about the sender’s background and interests that make her interest seem genuine. Factors that make me likely to ignore the request: a referral from an alumni office, generic wording, a demanding or entitled tone, obvious cluelessness about what I and my organization do. If I’m going to respond, I will generally do it within 24 hours unless I am traveling, in which case it might take up to a week.

          If you are trying to get a job offer out of these “informational interviews,” it is probably coming through in your e-mails and deterring people from responding.

          • I’m actually not looking for a job offer here, and I did offer details of my background/interests that were relevant. What exactly qualifies as generic wording or an entitled tone, here? I don’t think either of those is the case, though.

          • anon-oh-no :

            I rarely respond to these requests as well. there has to be something in the email to really make me want to talk to the person, otherwise I agree it just sounds like the person has looked at my bio, knows im a grad of their law school, and, as anon said above, is trying to find a way to get a job offer.

            What are you really hoping for out of an informational interview? Why is there a tight timeline? If you can explain the answers to those in the email, you may have more luck.

          • This is interesting. I recently got a request from a young graduate and even though I knew my company would not be a good fit, I did give the courtesy of a response. I remember when I was that young and I would have loved to have chatted with someone older and wiser even if that person was not in a field I was looking in. If you aren’t going to respond, why not just get off of your school’s list of alum?

          • anon-oh-no :

            I’m not on an office “list of alum.” But my bio on my firms website says where I went to law school and undergrad.

            And its not that I would never respond, but most of the time, these inquiries just seems like a stab in the dark, making it a waste of my time and likely theirs too

    • Did you email over the weekend? Are the emails going to personal or work email?

      Generally if I send a note via LinkedIn, if I don’t get a response within that same week, I’m not going to get one. If it’s to someone’s work email during work hours, I think 24 hours is the point at which you’re not going to get a response. It’s either been deleted or buried by then.

      If you’re sending to a personal email, I think it’s at least a week. There are times I just flag things into my personal email to handle over the weekend.

    • I did this and it took a few days or up to two weeks. I think I probably had a response rate of 1 in 4 or 1 in 5.

      • Thanks, this is really helpful.

      • Yes, exactly the same for me: ~1/5 sending highly personalized, targeted, carefully crafted cold emails to my alumni network. And I was appreciative of that – the people who answered were so helpful, and I very much understand why others didn’t respond.

    • Yes, you should expect a low response rate and I wouldn’t follow up (I can’t tell if that’s what you’re asking in your last sentence). You’re asking someone you don’t know to do you a favor, and while these may be people who have opted into something that makes them more likely to respond, it’s still a favor and they’re still very busy people. I get a lot of requests for these, and they’re not my lowest priority, but they’re fairly close to it given everything else I have on my plate.

      • Thanks. Oh no, I’m not following up. I have a fairly long list of people I could email, and I chose a small number based on some internet research of how well their work aligned with mine. If I’m expecting an even lower response rate than originally, I would cast a wider net and email more people off that list (that I didn’t email previously.) I guess I’m trying to figure out how low my expected response rate should be (1 in 2? 1 in 5?) to determine how many people to email. I don’t want to email everyone on this giant list for obvious reasons.

      • Anonymous :

        Agreed. I take these requests when they happen to fit my schedule. It’s not a personal thing, I just can’t always respond.

    • I did this a few years back and received responses from about 50% of people I emailed, with only about 50% of the respondents actually speaking with me. Some just dropped off the map or didn’t have the time and said so up front.

    • IF it’s over Linked In I almost never respond unless I know the person’s name. I get so much spam from that I don’t trust it.

      In my current company I’ll respond to an email but only when “all my fires are out” and then I would just be polite and offer an email exchange, not an in person interview. I really don’t have good news to give regarding the nature of my company.

  3. no splainin' :

    I was wondering how you guys deal with mansplaining in your professional lives or in graduate school. The situation has been pretty bad across the board, but there’s one guy in my cohort who has become particularly awful. It’s to the point where I try to consciously avoid expressing confusion or even acknowledging difficulty (even in a casual way, like “wow, what a tricky issue,”) or I’ll get an unsolicited explanation. At other times, I’ll be talking and he’ll feel the need to point out ambiguities things in what I say. He does this in a lighthearted, but it makes me angry to have someone feel the need to undercut what I’m saying. On the other hand, while he seems to feel that I need things explained to me, I am rarely approached for help. I often end up working with him and one other guy. We’ve all done well and have been pushed forward for the same prestigious professional opportunities, so it’s clear we’re all on the same level, but they constantly have long discussions over me, or they will ask questions to the group but then pay zero attention to what I say. I have also seen him do this to other women.

    Would love to hear your advice or any personal stories you might have to share with dealing with this kind of behavior in your life. Sometimes I cheer internally when I think of a snappy retort to say. To be honest, I am less concerned with coming off as a little rude and more concerned with coming off as someone who it’s OK to speak over.

    • I feel the need to assert myself in these situations. When someone makes a point that I’m aware of and consider fairly basic, I usually say “Yes, I’m aware of that” or something similar, and then go back to the point that I was making. I don’t feel bad interjecting or cutting him off if I need to. If they’re going on with each other and ignoring you, take a more assertive stand.

      I really, really hate this, and I don’t mean to trivialize this problem and its difficulties, but I find that it’s helpful to assert myself more strongly and if that means interrupting or otherwise taking a more strident tone, then that’s what I do. I know that has its own risks, though. I’ve just decided that’s a risk I’m willing to take, whereas being overlooked isn’t.

      • no splainin' :

        Thanks. I think I feel the same way re: being strident and being overlooked. If this were a purely social environment I’d be comfortable saying “what you are doing is really hurtful,” but since this is a professional setting I’d rather focus on the rudeness of what he’s doing rather than my feelings about it.

        • A lot of times I feel rude or dismissive when I’m responding to mansplainers, but I try to focus on what the actual problem is and my intended result. For example, I’m trying to make point X and this dude goes off on some mansplaining tangent, I’ll interrupt and be like “Yes, I’m aware, but back to my point, I think we should do Y because …” Or whatever. Take charge of the conversation. Don’t be afraid to interrupt but do NOT dwell on the rudeness of it or how you feel, because you’ll risk coming off as defensive or whiny, and that makes it easier for them to talk over you or ignore you.

    • Anonymous :

      In grad school? “Oi! Wasn’t actually asking you to mansplain this to me. Actually, blah blah blah.”

      You’re paying a small fortune for this experience.

      • Anonymous :

        Yes, if you are in grad school and they are your peers, call them out. They need some education.

      • Sorry for the vagueness. I don’t want to clarify to avoid outing myself, but it’s kind of a hybrid of both.

        • Don’t say “sorry”; you have nothing to apologize for! A well placed, withering, “Actually, I covered that/am aware/that’s not relevant etc.” would be a much stronger tactic for shutting him down. Do NOT apologize to this twit.

          • no splainin' :

            Thanks. You guys don’t know how much this helps to read—it’s a very male environment and it’s nice to have it validated that this is not OK.

    • Anonymous :

      I would make comments about him not you. Don’t say “I get it” or “yeah? I understand.” Instead say “YOU said that already”, “what’s YOUR point?”, “can YOU get to the bottom line today please”, “YOU’RE being repetitive”, “can YOU move this along please?”, “I think you’re making this harder and more complicated that it should be”, please be concise as we’re both busy.”

      Of course, I’m not the most tactful….

    • Shopping challenged :

      Might your final product theoretically be read by non-experts? When he starts this stuff, you could say “yes, good point that the public/new readers/end users/ whoever might not know even the basics like that! You should write an explainer to bring the noobs up to speed”
      Me? I’d be more inclined to roll my eyes and snort “obviously!” –too far in the opposite extreme, obviously.

    • I’ve started replying to my favorite mans-planer with ‘That’s correct!’.

  4. Letting Go :

    I struggle with trying to help other people with their problems before mine and not letting go when people disappoint me. I’m already in therapy (for other issues ive now resolved) but in the meantime, how do I learn to focus more on myself? I’m at a point in my life where so many of the people in my life are changing and it can feel isolating and confusing (mid 20s).

    I don’t want to be void of emotion or empathy but I guess what I want to learn is how to detach from expectations of others? I’ve always been a thoughtful person which can be a strength at times but it has also been a flaw and cause me to not live to the fullest.

    • Wildkitten :

      Talk to your therapist! That’s what you pay her for!~

    • LondonLeisureYear :

      Have you read Gretchen Rubin’s book Better Than Before and figured out which 4 tendencies you are? Maybe take her quiz and figure out what tendency you are – she then gives good tips on how to live your life best with that type of tendency.

  5. Anonymous :

    I want to try the Diva Cup, but I have heard many of you here say that you use a different brand. Where should I start? I’m mid-30s, no kids, hormonal BC, very light bleeding. (I want to use it because even light t*mpons are too much, and I hate taking them out every 6 hrs just because you can’t have a piece of cotton in you for that long – it doesn’t feel good.)

    • LondonLeisureYear :

      I use the divacup. They are good for 10 years before you need to replace them. There are 2 sizes (one for people who have had kids, and one for people who have not had kids). I suggest buying it, putting it on for the first time in the shower. Its sealed when you can turn the thing around inside you (that means its popped open).

      Things people have trouble with:
      1) They don’t cut the tip short enough so it pokes them – you can cut it
      2) They don’t clean out the little holes on the side that help it seal

      I usually wipe mine out with toilet paper after every empty but then wash it out in the shower once a day.

      Let me know if you have any questions – i have used a Diva Cup for over 10 years now and love love love it.

      • I use the Diva Cup and think it’s great. Where did you get the “good for 10 years” information? The package insert suggests that it be replaced annually (although it doesn’t sound like that is a firm requirement). I used my first one for about 13 or 14 months and then bought a new one. Ten years sounds extremely long. Wondering if you have more details. Thanks.

        • LondonLeisureYear :

          When I first bought it – it said lasted for 10 years. I might still have the paperwork for that. My sister had to re buy one last month (got lost with her luggage) and was telling me that they changed their recommendation to one year which seems crazy to me. If you google “diva cup last 10 years” a bunch of sites come up using that old figure too. So I don’t know, maybe they changed how they made it? Maybe its an FDA thing? Maybe its to make more money?

    • If you have light bleeding, the Diva Cup will feel like such an upgrade over tampons. You’ll get all the convenience without the slight downside of needing to deal with a full cup in a public bathroom (which happens for me on my heaviest day) – you can insert it during your morning shower or routine and then change it in the privacy of your own home at the end of the day. It’s SO much better than tampons, which dry you out and carry the risk of TSS and need to be changed so much more often. Trust me, order it now, never go back, and tell all your friends.

    • lost academic :

      Why only 6? I’ve always heard 8.

      • Shopping challenged :

        I thought it was 4.

        • Maddie Ross :

          I’ve always thought it was tied to the capacity – so a lite could be up to 8, but you wouldn’t want to leave a super in for more than 4 or so. Then again, I’ve had a kid so this is all out the window for me. I get two hours, tops, no matter the absorbency. Grrr.

      • Anonymous :

        The risk of TSS is pretty low with modern tampons. Most people still have the scaremongering in their heads from decades ago.

        I have to change a S+ every four hours on the heaviest day of my cycle, but on the lightest days I’ll go 12+ hours with a regular (I’ve tried to find lights but can’t find them anywhere local in the unscented variety). I haven’t died or experienced abnormal symptoms yet.

    • I love my DivaCup. Highly, highly recommend.

    • I found the Diva cup really firm and it limited my ability to empty my bladder entirely. I switched to the lily cup, it’s softer and smaller, and I love it- I have both the regular one, and the lily cup compact, which is easy to keep in my purse if I don’t want to put it in early (though you can).

      • Shopping challenged :

        Is there some kind of sizing or size guide? Unless you’re accustomed to Manhattan prices, these are kinda expensive to buy just to try & find it

    • I just started using the divacup — on a very swimming-heavy girls’ weekend! it was SO great. i think it might not be the ultimate one for me (i might prefer something smaller, because i do feel that pressure on my bladder) but not having to worry about it as frequently as a tampon was just worth so much. maybe in a few months i’ll try a different brand. i’m not as familiar as i’d like to be with my anatomy and whatever, but i found it worked in an easy, intuitive way.

    • Love the cup. Especially if you’re not like clockwork and travel frequently. Just toss it in your bag rather than packing 20 billion tampons or trying to locate a tampon store wherever you are. Just overall cleaner and less gross than old tampons.

    • I just finished my second month with a DivaCup, and I love it. The learning curve brought me back to younger years, but mostly it was just the inserting it/making sure that it’s open entirely part. It works so well and is so much more convenient than carrying products all the time.

      I learned a lot about which one I should buy and how to use it, as well as addressing some problems and discomfort I had, from a livejournal blog. If you google menstrual cup live journal it’ll come right up!

  6. Shopping challenged :

    This skirt, called a pencil skirt, avoids the very features of that style that make it awkward for me to wear. Love it!

  7. Anonymous :

    Questions to ask in an interview when you’ve already had an “informational interview” for the same position with the same person? Do I ask my real questions again? Try to come up with additional questions? Say I have no questions (that doesn’t seem great)?

    • I have one list of questions that I use, and there are always many more questions than I have time to ask. I usually start with the same 1 or 2 and then adjust based on the direction the conversation takes. Don’t say you don’t have any questions.

    • can you make the questions very role specific (vs company specific which I assume was more of the focus of your informational interview)? Focus on specific things the role would have to do in the next quarter or two, team dynamics, budget, that sort of thing?

  8. My parents need someone to go through a bunch of old desktops – and take off the info from them (lots of old photos etc) and help them set up a new computer (I am pushing for a laptop). They live in the Twin Cities. Any ideas of who to ask to do this? Or how to start looking? They got someone from their church through a silent auction but it was the nephew of one of the ladies on my mom’s circle so of course the guy was super nice and didn’t tell my dad “Your dell is totally corrupted by viruses and so slow and outdated and you need to just junk it.” And pretended everything was fine.

    How do you find someone that will be considerate of their feelings but also tell them honestly how it is. I want to gift this service to my dad for his birthday/father’s day because its a huge area of stress for him (he feels like he should be able to figure it out).

    • Geek Squad?

    • Call up a few locally based media-transfer companies (don’t have any specific recommendations, sorry) and explain the situation. Let them know it’s possible some of the data won’t be transferable and to be kind to your dad regarding that.

    • There are a lot of small companies/store fronts in my community that do exactly this sort of stuff. They clean up computers, remove viruses etc…. They are often just one young guy, and often overcharge a bit but get the job done. I’ve brought computers to them when things have crashed, keyboard or random other mechanical problems develop.

      Just do a quick online search for their city and computer repair / help. Look at the Yelp / angie’s list reviews.

      I literally have one such place 1 block from where I live, in suburbia. I’m sure there are many in the Twin cities.

  9. Any tech company managers out there? What do you wear to work? I work for a software company and manage a team that is starting to skew toward data scientist millennials. I like my sheath dresses and suits for client meetings (working with a lot of traditional clients) but I think it might be overkill for a regular day at the office.

    • I’m a data scientist (actual job title is Business Intelligence Analyst), but I’m in my 40s. I work for a university. I wear pencil skirts and sheath dresses and the gap premium pants, but that’s just my personal style. There are 2 others on my team, both older than me. So this might not be helpful. They both dress more casually…

      Our male boss wears button-down or polo shirts and khakis. I’ve never seen him wear a suit, accept when he was interviewing for his job. He has meetings all over campus.

      I think you can probably dress like me. I do a lot of trainings on campus – in Business Objects and Tableau. I buy my clothes at Nordstrom, Boden and Land’s End, plus TJMaxx…

    • Definitely would be overkill for a normal day. You can do a sheath dress with a cardigan or more casual jacket and flats + casual jewelry to tone it down, but I would start mixing some more objectively casual things into your wardrobe. I do a lot of dark jeans with my former-life blouses and jackets, or pencil skirts with t-shirt and cardigan or jacket. I still feel like the boss, but not in a way that’s alienating the people I work with.

    • I’m a technology consultant. When not meeting with clients, I will usually wear ankle pants with flats, some shell-like thing, and a cardigan. I always wear long sleeves and crew necks because I am covered in tattoos.

    • I’m sr director/AVP level and wear nice jeans + blazer and jewelry. And that’s pushing formal. ankle pants, flats and a cardi would be completely fine.

      When I have mgmt meetings and especially when I have client meetings (which you may not have at the mgr level), I’m either in a sheath + blazer or a suit, depending on the client’s formality. Even when I’m giving all-hands company presentations, I stick to the jeans/blazer ensemble.

      • Ditto to what Tech Mgmt said – I work as an IT manager at a university now, and had to buy more formal clothing because my director-level position at a software company had me dressing too casually for the office environment here. Which is to say, in software, I wore jeans/nice sneakers/cowl-neck T/blazer almost every day (unless presenting to clients in a more formal industry). Like Tech Mgmt, I used jewelry to dress it up.

        • Wellll hello. I’m a director at a tech company, selling to higher ed. I wouldnt be surprised if we’ve encountered each other at some point. Corporette meetup at educause?
          When I was working in university IT (2007-2012ish), I wore a lot of Gap premium trousers and cardigans. Now, on the software side, I have given up trousers entirely- realizing they’re not a good look on me. I’m in sheath dresses in wool or ponte knit, sometimes with blazers, when working with clients and dark skinny jeans or ankle pants and blouses, sometimes with blazers, when in the office. My team goes pretty casual- t shirts are acceptable, and I’ll often wear a dressier t under a blazer or with good jewelry. I’m searching for a replacement for my halogen pencil skirts (THE SKIRTS) which were a summer staple. In winter, I like the J Crew tippi sweater or other thin, light, warm sweaters, to wear with tall riding boots and skinny pants or pencil skirts.

    • This is perfect and exactly what I was thinking. Any favorite pants or flats?

    • In my mid 20’s. Mainly wear knee length skirts in a ponte or similar material, with a blouse or thin knit, tights (always cold otherwise!), and generally flat pumps. Do have a collection of jersey material dresses also, and a couple of pairs of tapered trousers I will wear at a push. Will occasionally wear heels if I feel like it.

  10. Anonymous :

    This skirt would be in my dream wardrobe. I freaking love it.

  11. All y’all, this looks like a good price, considering. Would it fly as a basic black skirt suit, or are the buttons too much? I frankly have not the foggiest idea, since my current work dress code is basically “don’t wear shorts and try to keep obscenities off your teeshirts.”

    http://www.lastcall.com/St-John-Santana-Embellished-Three-Button-Blazer-Black/prod30130164_cat6410010__/p.prod?icid=&searchType=EndecaDrivenCat&rte=%252Fcategory.service%253FitemId%253Dcat6410010%2526pageSize%253D117%2526No%253D0%2526Ns%253DPCS_SORT%2526refinements%253D544&eItemId=prod30130164&cmCat=product

    http://www.lastcall.com/St-John-Signature-Santana-Knit-Pencil-Skirt-Black/prod30120421_cat6410010__/p.prod?icid=&searchType=EndecaDrivenCat&rte=%252Fcategory.service%253FitemId%253Dcat6410010%2526pageSize%253D117%2526No%253D0%2526Ns%253DPCS_SORT%2526refinements%253D544&eItemId=prod30120421&cmCat=product

    • How old are you? And what occasion do you want the suit for? An attorney in my office has a St. John suit similar to that one, complete with giant pearl buttons. She is in her late 30s and looks great in it, but it reads old lady and old money to me. St. John is just such a specific look. If you like it, by all means go for it. But I don’t think that would be a great all-purpose or interview suit.

      • Think 40-ish, on the plus-size side of normal sizing. I need something appropriate for interviewing in government financial regulation type work. I figure I need something where I won’t stand out when dealing with bankers.

        I currently work in a quasi-academic setting in the least formal part of the country, and I’m looking at heading east to the DC/NYC environment.

        • It’s a knit suit. I think you will stand out when interviewing in govt financial regulation type work. I think you need a regular suit. (But, i’m a lawyer in NYC, so YMMV.)

          • Excellent advice. I still like it (old lady is my style, yo) but I will keep an eye out for something interview-appropriate.

            Janet Yellen was sworn in as head of the Federal Reserve in this basic suit. Gold buttons, though. I wonder if that’s subconsciously why I though, “This thing might work for me.”

    • I’m 35, love St. John and wear it on the regular. I might replace the buttons on that just because I don’t like them, but in general the quality is exceptional, the fabric drapes beautifully and flatters a wide range of body types, and that price is awesome. So awesome that if I didn’t already have a black St. John suit I would be tempted.

      • Can I go piecemeal, do you suppose? Pick up the skirt and a pair of pants, and wait for a jacket with better buttons? Or will I have trouble matching the blacks? It looks like the skirt and pants are both Santana knit, which I know is their standard.

        • So long as they’re Santana knit, the blacks should match. I actually have a Santana knit skirt I wear aaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the time – it is a total workhorse piece.

          • How’s the sizing? I have a bit of a tummy and alot in the rear. Am thinking about sizing up one size from normal (usually on the cusp between two sizes anyway) but maybe I should go up two? Am looking at another St. John pencil from regular NM which does permit returns. Thanks!

        • Changing or replacing buttons is an extremely easy fix, don’t not buy because of the blazer buttons.

  12. mama maybe? :

    Wow, I love this skirt.

    Does anyone have resources for thinking about/learning about domestically adopting an infant? Prefer non-religious organizations/narratives.

    I’m also curious for any personal experience y’all might be willing to share. DH and I are just starting to talk about being parents—it’s probably a few years off yet—and we both feel open to pursuing either biological parenthood or adoptive. We aren’t aware of any fertility or other health concerns that might preclude biological parenthood, but frankly, I can see pros and cons for either approach. I realize that this kind of decision (and parenthood in general) isn’t something that can be reckoned with purely on a pro/con basis, but it’s useful for me now as we think about the many, many avenues that are open to us in having a family.

    • I’ve actually found Tumblr to be an awesome place for reading about people’s adoption experiences, specifically through the Foster Care system.

      I’m looking at being a foster parent and would actually encourage you (and lots of other smart women out there) to consider foster parenting. I’ve been told it’s the hardest, most taxing yet most rewarding thing that people have ever done. I’ve found great foster parent posts on Tumblr that really discuss the nitty-gritty of being a foster parent.

      • There’s also a bunch of groups on Facebook for foster parents and, I’m sure, adoptive parents. I see some of it secondhand when a FB friend comments on the posts about her experience.

      • Just curious about fostering because it seems like such a great thing to do – my kids are in full time day care. If I fostered a child, they would have to go to day care as well. It’s a high quality day care, but would they look down on that as a potential foster parent?

        • Foster mom :

          They would not look down on that at all. Keep in mind though, that the state does not pay for the daycare of your choice and generally has a list of approved centers. In our state, we are not allowed to depart from the list.

    • Adoption is expensive and can be emotionally taxing and can take a long time (TTC can do the same). If you don’t have any reason to not have biological children, I’d have biological children. I do know a couple that has done foster care (before having biological children) and they said the same thing above about fostering. They loved the experience and found it very rewarding. They could offer stability, love, and model a healthy relationship for these children so that they had a shot at having normal relationships later on in their lives.

      • mama maybe? :

        Interesting.

        I guess my thought on the pros/cons of each–and I absolutely am not trying to impugn anybody’s choices here, we all do what’s right for us–is that adoption seems more . . . net-positive to the world at large? I dunno. Obviously that is NOT a reason to choose it but we have the resources and flexibility (not to mention privileges) to (I think) navigate the system well, and it seems (from my very limited perspective) as though the awfulness of the adoption bureaucracy is pretty much a known entity, while biological parenthood and the specific process of TTC/pregnancy/birth/post-partum has a lot more unpredictables. So I suppose my thought is that if the initial process for either one is taxing and difficult, and if we think we’d be okay navigating either one, maybe we *should* consider the fact that one has, objectively, slightly more positive implications for the world at large.

        • I think this is all pretty sounding nonsense. If you think you are healing the world by adopting, don’t do it. You aren’t a savior, and there’s a lot of literature about it.

          If you want to adopt do it selfishly. Do it because you really want to because it is good for you. Don’t do it because you are convinced you’re helping the world.

        • mama maybe? :

          However . . . I don’t think anybody here is healing the world or being a savior; my ramble above suggested, at best, “slightly” more positives for one choice than the other. But is it nonsensical to think about the larger implications when it comes to something this personal? I agree with [email protected]:53 to make the choice that is right for us–but I guess I do still consider other factors in deciding what is “right for us.”

          • There are larger implications both ways. Is adoption actually good for children? For birth parents? Does it make sense to give children away to “better” families instead of supporting them in their families of origin? Is a 16 year old really ready to never see her child again? Is there not inherently an element of coercion?

            I’m not anti-adoption at all. I think the answers to all those questions can be “yes, and still we need adoption.” But I don’t think it is a clear cut social good, and that’s why I think you shouldn’t make the decision in those terms v

          • yes yes yes to anonymous. I think there’s been an assumption for a long time that adoptive parents are saints and that “we can just adopt” like it’s nothing. Or that adoption is ALWAYS a good choice. and it’s actually a lot more complicated than that. I’m not anti-adoption either, but it’s a complex issue.

          • You’re also not talking about adopting a teenager, or an older child who many have a disability or medical conditions or emotional trauma or behavioral issues. You’re talking about adopting an infant, and there are many, many couples who can’t have biological children and desperately want to adopt infants.

          • Foster mom :

            +1 to Anonymous at 11:12. There are more adoptive parents for infants than there are healthy infants for adoption. If you’re trying to truly help a child, adopt an older child or a child with special needs. Adoption of an infant is tough: heartbreak, long wait times, and thousands of dollars to spend.

        • Ok this is definitely a sensitive topic, and you are right, I think everyone should do what is right for them. But there are some downsides to adoption. Rich people are, in essence, implying that they can take better care of a child than someone who is poor/young. That’s why you don’t see women who are in a stable job and 28 giving up their baby for adoption (usually). So is it REALLY net-positive? I’d just ask yourself this question. There’s also a lot of complex emotional issues with adoption (as a parent and as an adoptee). Even if you are doing domestic-adoption, are you only looking for same-race adoption? Because inter-racial adoption can also get complicated with the fact that are you taking a child away from their de-facto biological culture. Will you take the time/effort to immerse an adoptive child into that culture as much as possible?

          • mama maybe? :

            Ah, these are the kinds of questions I was hoping for–thanks, [email protected] and 11:01!

            My thought on net-positive was less about “better” homes/families and more about, well, adding people to the planet. But your points are very well taken.

          • You don’t solve over-population (to the extent it is even a problem) one American baby at a time. It’s really a ridiculous consideration. If you care deeply about overpopulation, support global health and family planning programs, don’t adopt a kid. Adopt a kid because you really want to sure! But not because of this. Not even as a factor.

          • mama maybe? :

            Right on. Thanks, [email protected]:06. Not to say that there aren’t other factors (maybe also silly), but this was what I needed to hear.

        • In my experience, even big-ticket fertility treatment like IVF is more predictable than adoption. I have a fellow infertile friend who went the domestic adoption route instead of the IVF route. Our two sons are around 9 months old right now. But she was set to adopt twin girls a few months before, and it fell through after the birth. Then she was contacted out of the blue by another pregnant woman. After two more months, she adopted her son, only to face a later legal challenge from the father, which was just resolved.

          And the normal complications of pregnancy and birth were also still present. The birth mother had preterm labor and was in the hospital. They spent weeks before the birth waiting at a hotel in town, because doctors thought birth was imminent. Between the birth and the legal issues, I think she’s spent several months out of state, and, although she’s self-employed, it’s been financially difficult to be away from her work.

          I gather it cost her almost twice what biting the bullet and doing IVF cost us, and it was so stressful. The bonding-with-a-baby process is really intense, and the idea that someone is maybe going to have the power to take that baby away is pretty horrible.

          • mama maybe? :

            Oof–thank you for sharing your friend’s experience. That does sound awful.

            Hope both your families are now doing well.

          • Anonymous :

            This is all very second hand, but a coworker and his wife adopted an infant last year and I was really struck by his story (domestic, inter-racial adoption). They found out they’d been selected by a birth mother basically when she went into labor. Hopped in the car and drove several states away, and spent the next month in a hotel while all the legal issues were worked out – the father was unknown or unavailable, so they were terrified the decision would be challenged and their baby would be taken away.

            They were able to visit the birth mother, her family including her other children, and their baby in the hospital. He glossed over that just saying it was “wrenching.” I literally cannot imagine what it would be like to watch a mother say goodbye to her baby and hand him over to strangers, even if she had considered the decision carefully and was doing it willingly knowing it was the best choice for her and her family. Or to watch siblings in that situation. Ultimately it’s a day in your life, and they are incredibly thrilled to have a child (they’d struggled with infertility for a long time and several rounds of failed IVF) and a couple years later they are all doing well, but wow, I think it would haunt me. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily happen with every adoption.

    • Diana Barry :

      YMMV, but my friends who have adopted domestically found: (1) it was EXTREMELY expensive (like $30K, and this is a while ago), and (2) it took a VERY LONG TIME, maybe 3-5 years from being on the list to becoming parents.

    • Hiya — so, I was in a similar situation to you and will share what happened with our family. We had two bio kids and were on the fence about a third — I knew I never wanted to be pregnant again, but we weren’t convinced we were finished having kids. We also had close friends/extended relatives who were (are) active in our local foster system and community. So we figured this would be a way to perhaps help some other people and if a child who was a good fit for our family came along and the universe pointed us in a specific direction, well, then we’d go with it. (I know this might come off as cavalier — it wasn’t, I promise! Just trusting in fate.) So my husband and I spent a long summer getting certified to be foster parents. It was both uplifting and heartbreaking every single time.

      I kid you not, we got certified and I found out the next week that I was accidentally pregnant. AHHHHHH. So it put all of those plans on hold — and in fact, my baby is almost a year and we’re just getting back to discussing what to do about our foster license (we did not foster when I was pregnant/when we had a newborn). I’m thinking now we might just provide respite care for other foster families rather than take in long-term placements of our own.

      I highly recommend going through the process to get certified in your geographical location. That will typically involve a series of classes that will teach you a TON about the system, the issues, the families involved, etc. Even if you decide to have bio kids, it will be time well spent. One thing you should know about foster care, though, is that the overarching goal is to reunite the child with a family member of some sort — so in many ways, it’s in direct opposition to the desires of a family who wants to adopt. That said, our area only has about a 50% reunion rate — pretty rough.

      • mama maybe? :

        Thanks, ANP! This is super helpful. Yes, I think that foster care–though awesome–is probably not the route we would choose for right now, though I could see it being something we consider later on. Although the certification process sounds really interesting on its own . . .

      • Anonymous :

        There is a facility within the boundaries of our school district for kids in the foster care system who don’t have families. Those kids really need parents! It can be pretty heart-breaking. Of course, a child having a hard time will be hard on you, at least at first, but there are some kids who are just at the start of it, who you might be able to deal with. We know a family who took on a 3 year old who is very behind in his speech. So far it has been a rewarding experience for them, as he soaks up all the interaction he can get and responds to the same discipline techniques they used with their own kids.

    • Just curious :

      If you know someone with an oops you can bypass all lists and do a private adoption for just legal fees right? This is just a hypothetical but say Jane is looking to adopt and Helen’s 16 year old daughter becomes pregnant and wants to put the baby up for adoption. Jane could adopt Helen’s daughter’s baby using an agreement drafted by their attorneys, right? Or would they still have to go through the state and home visits and all that stuff?

    • Dan Savage wrote a book, “The Kid”, about his (secular) adoption experience. It was pretty fascinating and focused on the general adoption experience rather than on the aspects that were unique to gay couples. It’s a fun, easy read.

    • Thanks for asking this, and thank you everyone for the comments. I had a very difficult first pregnancy, and DH and I have been considering whether and how to grow our family (not immediately, but maybe within a couple of years). I knew adoption is expensive and can be heartbreaking, but I didn’t realize the extent of it and hadn’t really thought about the other complex issues involved. It’s helpful to hear that it’s not a simple alternative to having a biological child.

    • Anonymous :

      I was on the other side of it, 30 years ago. (Yes, Zak E could be my son and yes, that messes with my fantasy life). I went through a private lawyer, who arranged it directly with the family (he gave me three to choose from). You could start by asking someone in family law.

  13. Let’s talk retirement. Do you plan to/want to work until age 65 (or 67 for the 30-something and under generation)? Or are you setting up your life in such a way that you can be done “early” — whether it’s age 60 or 50 or whatever? If yes, can you please share some of the steps you’re taking? I’m 35 now and I’m not looking to go all frugalwoods or MMM to be done in 2 yrs or anything, but given how my career has gone — I find myself thinking A LOT — of 30 more yrs of this?? Ideally I’d love to be done in my 50s, but am not clear what steps to take. I already max out the 401k at 18k. For the first 8 yrs of my career I worked someplace with no match (standard for my industry), and now I have a job with a 7% match. I do save otherwise, but don’t know how to ear mark for retirement vs. general savings. Thoughts?

    • Diana Barry :

      Oy, definitely earlier than 65, but I don’t know when! I think maybe when our retirement funds grow to $5M then I will feel better about retiring – either that or when the college funds are fully funded.

      • HAHAHAHAHAHA. I live in a LCOL, work full time (and have since starting work)(current 6 figure income) as does my spouse, and am not yet mid 50’s. We have $2M in retirement. I will be 65 before we get to $5M if I am lucky.

    • Yay! Pricey Monday’s! I love pricey Monday’s and this flueted wool skirt, but if I bought it, I would have to expelain to the manageing partner why I wanted to buy it, b/c the judge does NOT like me in skirt’s that flute like this.

      As for the OP, this is a great question. I want to retire at age 65, and get social security to suplement my 401K and my partnership retirement trust account. Dad tells me that social security will NOT be anything great by the time I get there in 30 year’s so that is why I am saveing (capping out) my 401K, and match, and also getting an extra contribution of $35,000/year into my Partnership retirement trust account — which will increase each year, as I become a SENOIR partner, and even more when I become the manageing partner!!

      So all of the HIVE should save, even tho it is not easy if you live in a high cost area like NYC, but I figure that when I am 65, I will have enough saved so that I will NOT have to worry about retirement, and will be abel to sit by the pool at my beach house (if I have one), and let my HUSBAND get me a nice pinna colada. YAY!!!

    • I have no idea if this will work out, but if I could design my life I would take time off in my 30s and 40s to spend time with my young kid(s) when I have them (no kids yet) and then go back for another 10 or 15 years when my kids get to be high school and college age. My husband is a university prof who will work, at least in some form, until probably his 80s if he lives that long, which alleviates some of the financial pressures that people who both plan to stop working at 65 have. We also live in a very LCOL area, which helps. I’d like to be at least semi-retired by 60 or so that I can take advantage of my husband’s flexible schedule (summers and winter breaks off and conference travel abroad) and travel a lot. My parents are in their late 60s and are already slowing down, so I’d like to take as much advantage as possible of the years when I will (hopefully) have both a lot of money and the energy and health for active travel.

    • I am about 8 years into a 25-year retirement state government job which has a pension. I will be 50 once have 25 years in. I also save an additional amount every paycheck in a separate deferred compensation account. We are also currently 10 years into our 30 year mortgage, but I think we will likely move before retirement, but also plan to do a 10 or 15 year mortgage at that time and have it paid off by the time I retire. So I think I should be able to retire at 50 from my current job. My husband works for the federal government and started later than I did, so he will probably have to keep working another 10 years or so. We are the same age, so he should retire by 60. (He also has some small retirement savings from his previous job.) Our youngest child will turn 18 when we are 46 as well, so in theory we should get all three through college before I retire as well.

    • I hope to be healthy enough to work until 70. I see my parents friends retiring and I’m not envious. I’d like to slow the pace a bit but keep working.

    • Sure, Why Not? :

      Yes, I plan to work until 65 (or 70), but plan to save like I won’t be able to. Mostly because I don’t know what I’d do with my time if I wasn’t working. That being said, I’ve got 30-35 years to go, so I may change my mind in the meantime.

    • Getting Older & Better :

      One of the Big questions if you retire at 55 or 60 is what are you doing for the next 30 years?? Travel and gardening are not going to be enough. I have some older retired friends who are really struggling.

      • Depends on the person :

        I attended a deposition of a retired man. When asked what he does in retirement he happily exclaimed “absolutely nothing.” He is more than happy sitting on his couch or in his recliner, watching daytime tv, reading, napping. Not everyone is driven to always be doing something.

        • That’s funny… I was at the grocery store one day and went to grab something off a shelf at the same time an older man did. I apologized, and he said “oh, its okay, you go ahead. I’m retired, I’ve got all the time in the world!” He seemed really happy about his leisurely pace.

          • More power to people who enjoy this! I was unemployed (on purpose and voluntarily) for two months, was active (gym, running, riding, volunteering, networking) and was still so antsy!

        • Anonymous :

          I could technically retire today, at 35, if I move to a LCOL area (like where I grew up and still have family) and live somewhat frugally. The question of “What to do?” is what is stopping me.

          I am planning to shift to a not-a-lawyer-or-even-JD-preferred career in the next two years. I hope a less stressful second career where people rarely work over 40hrs/wk will be enough of a life change that I don’t feel overwhelmed or regret not retiring.

      • My dad retired at 60, and now at 70 is still staying very active and having lots of fun! He does travel a lot, he goes fishing, he’s always doing projects around the house and around his neighbor’s houses. He plays guitar with a local band, gives guitar lessons to his friends, he goes on dates! He goes trail running and bike riding almost everyday. He visits his grandkids. He also really enjoys sleeping in (which for him means until 7 or 8 am) and having his morning coffee on his porch. He’s busy and active, but also enjoys lots of downtime and says he loves it.

      • Tired, but not retired :

        I’m in government, so I know many who retire at 62 or 65, depending on years of service. Every single one of the retirees I know says that they are so busy with life, much busier than they were when they worked full time, and I have never met anyone who regretted retiring. I hope to retire in 4 years when my youngest graduates from college. I’ll be 62, with over 38 years in service. I plan to walk, garden, read, putter, sew, knit, watch tv (or Netflix or whatever), go out to lunch with my friends, read, do yoga, meditate, relax, putter.

      • Anonymous :

        I’m pretty Type-A, my type of gardening would be an elaborate miniature farm, not planting a few pansies. I can definitely keep myself busy indulging all my whims. If only retirement were sooner.

      • Anonymous :

        What about volunteering, reading, sleeping, seeing friends, writing, blogging, exercising, watching TV, cooking, baking, etc? I have absolutely no doubt I could keep myself happy for many years without a 9-5.

      • Can I retire at 30? (nope) :

        I definitely envy my mother and her husband’s style of retirement. They’ve always lived well below their means and have healthy retirement funds which has really paid off. They’re both very active (like, running races every few weekends active). They spend a month or two in the winter renting a condo in a warmer climate– they prefer spending each winter in a different locale, they aren’t really the type to vacation somewhere twice. They also go on quite a few other vacations throughout the year. My mother volunteers two or three days a week with two different nonprofits that are important to her, performs in local musical theatre, sings at church, brings meals to people who need them, gardens like a fiend, works out every day, and scratches her acting itch (and biology background) as an actor for a medical school. She’s a very driven and disciplined AND in great health, so I can see how that style of retirement might not be possible for a lot of people. She’s also said that if she ever gets tired of retirement, she’d be happy to work in a limited capacity in her former industry. I think going into retirement with the mindset that it doesn’t have to be permanent (provided health allows for it) is healthy, and helps you avoid feeling like you’ll be stuck at home forever.

        Honestly, most days she seems busier than I am, but is able to completely write her own schedule and pick things up/dial down as she wants. It seems awesome.

    • Oh man, $5 million… I cant even comprehend someday having that much. I feel so far behind. I was at a seminar lately though and apparently half of adults in this country do not even have one dollar saved for retirement. Zero dollars.

      I want to keep working until I’m 65-70 (maybe longer? who knows), but once my kid is done with college, if we’re in a good financial place, I am planning to work seasonally, which in tax accountant world means about 5 months of the year. I see a lot of older women especially who work this kind of schedule. You have the summer off and the holidays off too, which is great.

    • My response is 80% and 20% cavalier. I have too much student loan debt, like living my life in the present too much to throw so much money at retirement saving that I cannot do mildly fun things, and get bored too easily, to consider retiring at 65! I do contribute to retirement but the millions of dollars other people have already saved is not on my radar. I plan to stockpile sleeping pills as it gets closer in case get to the point where I cannot support myself anymore – I do not plan to be a burden on anyone.

    • I’m in my late 30’s now and I can’t even think about retiring! I love my job so much, and I probably only take about half my vacation every year. On the other hand, my husband would have retired 10 years ago if we could afford it! I’m definitely the “type A” in our family and I really feel my best when I’m busy.
      I sometimes get annoyed by judge-y people who say things like “nobody on their deathbed ever regretted not working more” (not directed at me specifically but just in general) – whatever makes you happy, right? Each to his/her own.

    • Am lucky enough to be able to retire now, at 40. But will probably work till 50. Husband may work till 50-55.
      Retirement hobbies include learning s language, Travelling and continuing to play the piano. And I may take up tennis.

  14. Casper Review :

    I promised to report back on my Casper mattress and here it is!

    Delivery took 6 days from the date of order. It arrived in a long box that I was able to drag into the house by myself. The instructions for opening the mattress bag were really clear (though I couldn’t find the tool they’re supposed to send for cutting the bag open, so I used a boxcutter). It unrolled and “fluffed up” in minutes. And I’d say it was fully fluffed and ready to be laid on in under 5 minutes?

    As far as comfort goes… It really is a bizarre mix of soft and firm. There’s an initial softness to it that you sink into but then it feels pretty firm after that. I’ve slept on it about 25 nights or so, and though my chronic back pain didn’t magically disappear, the neck and shoulder pain I sometimes feel when I wake up has decreased a lot. My husband moves a lot in his sleep and this mattress really hides that well. I have no idea how it will age, but so far, so good.

    I give it a 9 out of 10 and would recommend it as a relatively low cost, easy to get, and very comfortable mattress. Plus you don’t have to deal with mattress salespeople or figuring out how to get the darn thing home from the store.

    • Would you mind sharing your relative weights/body types of both people? I am rather quite *ahem* fluffy, and I find that often i sink into memory foam type mattresses a lot. Consequently I feel stuck in them and wake up a little bit in order to shift my position in my sleep.

      • Casper Review :

        I am also fluffy. Fluffy plus, you might say. My husband is… not.

        The only thing I’ve noticed with regard to that is getting out of the bed sometimes takes a little extra effort than my usual firm spring mattress. Like it is a bit more awkward trying to get up. But as far as sleep goes, I haven’t found that to be a problem.

    • Thanks for reporting back! Do you find yourself sleeping hotter in the memory foam? That’s my only worry

      • Casper Review :

        I have modal jersey sheets which feel very cool to the touch, so I have not had that experience with it.

    • New Tampanian :

      Which casper did you order?

  15. Semi related to the adoption question above, does anyone have any personal stories to share about having a bio kind via a surrogate? We’re tentatively thinking about this several years down the road.

    • A friend looked into this, and from what I recall, it seemed like an extremely expensive option. You pay a very large free to the surrogate as well as all of her medical and living expenses for the duration of the surrogacy (which can include the time frame in which it takes her to get pregnant – may not happen immediately). I’m sure there are different policies depending on the agency you work with though.

    • Anonymous :

      No personal experience, but for me it would be tough for me not to be able to control the behavior of the surrogate parent. Somehow I see adoption differently and I think I could accept that I’m getting an existing kid, whose bio parent may not have behaved perfectly (or even minimally acceptably) while the kid was in the womb. But it would be too hard for me to know that my kid was cooking from an embroyo and I couldn’t say a d#mn thing about what the surrogate was eating, drinking, how much she was sleeping and exercising, etc. I know you can’t control any of that with adoption either but somehow I think it would be easier for me to let go of that stuff in an adoption context. I’m not really sure why though.

    • I know someone who was a surrogate a couple years ago. She made about $35k cash. She also got a monthly stipend to cover maternity clothes, extra food costs, etc. The surrogate also paid for all medical expenses, co-pays, prenatal vitamins, etc.

  16. White jeans? :

    hello hive- I have been looking for a pair of white jeans for basically years and am wondering if I am just not meant to wear them. I am 5’10”, size 8 but with a booty and thick legs and every time I try on a pair of white jeans, I feel like you can see every dimple and bump in my thighs/cellulite etc. I just can’t imagine walking out of the dressing room with these pants on, let alone feeling comfortable enough to wear them out and around. Are some people just not meant to wear white jeans? I would LOVE a pair but feel so sad and frustrated after trying on so many pairs with such gross looking results. My favorite non-white jeans are j crew matchstick (in tall) and I need a long inseam. (The white matchsticks are not workable for the reasons explained above). Any recommendations/hope would be greatly appreciated!

    • Gap white boyfriend jeans work for me.

    • Midwest Mama :

      I’m about your exact height and size and have also been searching for white jeans. I’m thinking we may have to size up and get the waist tailored so they’re not quite so fitted in the booty and thighs. That being said, hopefully someone else can chime in with suggestions of brands that have thicker material.

      • I found the AG Primas to be much thicker than other designer white jeans, including some other AG styles.

    • Have you tried more expensive designer jeans? Madewell? Paige? Usually think better quality jeans won’t show imperfections as much. I’ve heard good things about Boden’s white jeans as well.

    • Have you tried sizing up in the Matchsticks? I have a couple pairs of white jeans from jcrew (3-4 years old, I think) and was going to recommend, based on the fact that the denim seemed pretty substantial. The white denim I have feels like it’s a heavier weight than the blue denim, and like it has less stretch. I think I ended up getting 33s in the white, when I would have gotten 32s in the blue, as there was no way in he!! I was fitting into the smaller size in the white.

      • In the Pink :

        I’ve just given up the hunt… even the NYDJ aren’t flattering on my hourglass. The White just exaggerates and emphasizes my thighs. One less “trend” to worry about – that’s what I tell myself. Last year I got the wide legged trousers from WHBM and wear them – but they are certainly more dressy than jeans so they only get worn to work.

      • I have white J. Crew matchsticks, and I just sized up (because I didn’t think they looked very flattering in my regular size, heh).

    • Everything shows in white jeans. If you’re used to the flattering qualities of dark wash jeans you’re going to have to adjust to looking real-size or larger on the bottom when you wear white jeans.

      And yes you may need a larger size in them. You can get away with very tight dark jeans more than you can with white jeans.

      All this said, I don’t wear ’em myself!

    • I highly recommend Paiges. The ones I ended up with are ankle skinnies, and are the perfect amount of thickness to smooth all of my rear end cellulite, without being so thick to be too hot in summer. I tried on every pair at my local Nordstrom (probably 10-15) and these were by far the best–the rest all felt like white leggings with how much dimpling they showed. I’m a pear with a small waist, wide hips/butt, and thick runner/cyclist thighs, and didn’t need any tailoring.

      • Sorry, just saw that you need long inseam. I’m 5’8″ but longer torso-ed with shorter legs, so the ankle style worked for me. This was a few years ago and the ankle was just what the store had in stock that day–hopefully you can find a longer length style with the same fabric content! Or at the very least, find regular length ones that you can pull off as an ankle style, which my 6’+ sister has to do. Maybe these? http://www.paige.com/verdugo-ultra-white/d/400003093C12271?CategoryId=202&Colors=White

    • Mrs. Jones :

      I have tried and returned more than 12 pairs of white jeans recently. I finally found two that work, which was like finding a unicorn: Madewell crop jeans and J Brand “sneaker flares” (from Nordstrom). I’m a curvy size 10, 5’7″.

    • I like my white NYDJ straight leg ones (which I think come in long). I am plus size with plenty of bumps, but I find they do a pretty good job smoothing everything out on me.

    • I love the look of white jeans. I don’t wear them myself for all the reasons you mentioned. I’ve tried designer/larger sizes, everything, but I carry my weight in my thighs and white jeans show everything.

    • Yes, I carried my sister’s daughter for her. So costs for us were very different than the usual commercial transaction, but I learned a lot about both during the process. Budget about $80k, but know it could be a lot more (if twins, which is common, if health issues, if C-section, etc.). There are agencies that can “match” you with a surrogate and handle a lot of the logistics for you. The poster above is incorrect — you do not pay “living expenses” of the surro, at least not in the United States. Indian surrogacy is another matter, and not something I would ever recommend for practical and ethical reasons. Expect $10k-$25k in IVF costs for you and surro, $25k-$35k compensation to the surrogate, four-figure fee to the agency, low four figure lawyers fees for both your and surro’s lawyer to do the contracts and pre birth order (depending on state of birth). Plus a widely variable amount for costs of pregnancy and delivery and potentially for surrogate’s insurance premiums (many private policies these days specifically exclude surro expenses, so you have to buy her a separate policy for the pregnancy, usually with low premiums but high deductible).

      It’s expensive, but doable, and more common than you might think. And when you are matched well, it can be an incredibly rewarding experience for everyone. The surro can become a part of your family, if that’s what you want. Or you can have a very distant, professional relationship. It’s all okay, as long as you make your expectations clear and are all on the same page.

      Speaking for myself, I will say that the moment I said “it’s okay, come hold your daughter” to my sister a few minutes after birth was one of the most incredible moments of my life. She was shaking. She was weeping. My BIL couldn’t breathe. I felt — and I am not a religious or a spiritual person — but I felt like the conduit through which something truly amazing had passed.

    • Baconpancakes :

      I know this is probably unpopular, but I have a pair of Lands’ End white ankle jeans that are thick enough that I feel pretty good in them. They don’t show anything, really.

    • Thicker denim fabric covers the dimples and bumps, but good luck finding it! I owned a pair of Lee denim capris that I found on a Khol’s clearance rack and they are (to date) the only white pants that have ever worked.

      Most while pants are just too thin. You can see the pockets lying against your thighs, or you can see dimples and bumps. I have the same problem with khaki and other light colors pants.

  17. Yesterday I was standing in line waiting to board a plane coming back from visiting my dad. For some reason, everybody lines up on United now like half an hour before boarding starts because God forbid you are not the first person to board in Group 5, or that 10 people board before you in Group 2 (in the former, you’re definitely not getting your bag overhead, on the latter, you definitely are… I digress). So as they start calling people to the gate I get in line, but we are literally just standing there, and I am replying to a text from a friend of mine who is picking me up at the airport when I get in. The guy in front of/next to me in this jumbled line says, “Wow, you text so fast! Are you a millenial?”

    I kind of stared at him for a minute and then said something like, well, my last client differentiated it as digital immigrants versus digital natives, but…

    Yes, I’m in my mid-late 20’s, but, what? Was that not rude? What should I have said, considering I had to continue to stand next to this guy in line for the next 10 minutes? I just tried to laugh it off but I’d like to have a better response next time.

    • Ummm calm down? He wasn’t rude, he was making small talk in a line you were waiting in, within the realm of acceptable things to say to strangers you are standing near.

      You are a millennial, you are texting fast. “Sure am” would work or “lots to say” with a smile if you want to chat and neutral face if you don’t.

      • +1 he wasn’t insulting you. Some people really are amazed at how fast some ppl can text. Someone said this to me when they were sitting behind me in a baseball game and I just smiled at them. Honestly you probably came off as really uppity and stuck up.

        • No, I’m pretty sure I didn’t come off as “uppity and stuck up” because I just spent several years in a client-facing team management role and that’s the direction I ran in – made a joke, small talk, etc because it is my default reaction. But it still rubbed me the wrong way, and why on earth was somebody else watching me text anyway? I would never make a comment that he was texting slow and must be of a certain age?

          • God eye roll. You sound so millennial. He wasn’t watching you he was standing right there. Idk why you are offended.

          • Oh for crying out loud. He was trying to make small talk, not judge you. He was probably legitimately amazed at how fast you were typing. People comment on how fast I type, how fast I text, etc., all the time. I an in my early late 30s (sounds better than late 30s haha).

            What are you supposed to do when you are surrounded by a group of people, stare at the ground as to not offend someone? Come on. I look around at people all the time and will start up a convo with people who appear receptive when I am in line/at the airport, etc., anywhere people are having to endure the same BS together.

          • I avoid small talk with strangers – I hate it – especially as someone who has to travel often. And yes, any comment on whatever I was doing, wearing, reading, eating, etc. is decidedly unwelcome. Not saying I would be rude, but understand that some people don’t want to engage in unsolicited conversations just because they happen to be in the physical vicinity of other people.

          • Should add, Anonymous at 12:07 was not OP

          • I totally get that some people don’t want to engage and that’s fine, but not wanting to engage is different than labeling any comment by someone as rude. No one here is saying you have to engage in small-talk with strangers, people are pointing out that this man’s comment was not rude.

      • Um, yeah. This. Of all the things I’ve heard people say in airports, on a scale of 1 to 10, this is about a 1.2 in terms of rudeness.

    • Re: lining up. I fly United across the country once or twice a month. I usually line up about 15 min before scheduled boarding because I want to stand for a while before sitting for 6 hours straight on the flight. I’ve tried standing other places but I’m usually in someone’s way unless in line.

      I’m in group 1 so it’s not an issue of getting my roller on, but when I used to be in group 2 there were occasions where the last of group 2 had to check their rollers. There are a s hit ton of united elites flying out of SFO so that’s part of the reason.

      • This was a smaller, though not regional airport… if I was in Group 4 or 5 I would have resigned myself to not getting my bag overhead. Maybe that’s just me – I was in Group 2 and not really sweating it because there were only 10 or so premiere access people.

        I flew Southwest down because I had to rebook my flight at the very last moment, and people also lined up way ahead of time… which is kind of funny because lining up is a southwest thing, but you also get a number so you don’t really need to be there until you’re about to board? I’m A22 regardless of when I walk up before the door opens.

      • Yes, on my most recent flights I’ve lined up simply because there wasn’t anywhere to sit down, and the only other place to stand was outside of the gate area in the main walkway where I was in the way – or I’d have to go pretty far and wouldn’t be able to actually hear the gate announcements. So if there aren’t any seats available or if I feel like standing, I usually wind up doing it in line.

      • Honestly, the reason I line up early is because I don’t want to have to deal with the frenzy and accompanying awkwardness/sometimes aggressiveness associated with lining up when your number is called. People trying to merge from several lines, people cutting or being perceived as cutting– sounds like my worst nightmare.

    • I think the best response is “Yea, I’ve had lots of practice!” or “Been texting since I was a baby!” and a friendly smile. “You text fast” isn’t exactly an insult…
      Also, is there any change you were in a southern state? That kind of in-line small talk is so common in Texas I wouldn’t have thought twice about it.

      • That’s basically what I did with the natives vs immigrants – we talked about growing up with technology then. But it just felt weird.

    • What’s the big deal??? He’s making small talk with a stranger that he has to stand next to for 10-30 min and may end up sitting next to on the plane. I don’t think “millennial” is the insult you’re making it out to be.

    • Yes, that was rude. Why is he looking over your shoulder at your phone? Why does he have to say anything to you about it? Why does every older person have to call us “millennials” and remark on our technology skills?

      I don’t think there’s a good way to answer that question. Laugh and then ignore.

      • Depends on where you’re from. In the south — meaning from DC on south, people make this kind of small talk ALL the time and to react with a “digital immigrant vs. native” comments is uppity. And frankly even in the north — as in NYC — it isn’t unheard of for people to chit chat at the airport bc you tend to spend long times in line; though in NYC an uppity comment is par for the course and the commenter won’t think anything of it, unless he’s from the south.

        • I don’t think it came off uppity because it went in to a conversation, I laughed as I said it, etc.

          Though I also don’t really care if it did.

          • People are acting like you pepper sprayed him, when you were really just taken aback and sort of annoyed.

          • Anonymous :

            I don’t think finding this guy mildly annoying is weird. I think coming on the Internet and writing a whole big monologue about it is weird.

          • The substance of her post was around five lines.

          • monologue? it took me like 15 seconds to type. must be because I’m a millennial.

      • TravelBug :

        “Why does every older person have to call us “millennials” and remark on our technology skills? ” + 1000

    • And this, my friends, is why the only safe subject left to discuss is the weather.

    • This lining up sh!t is one of the main reasons I don’t fly United anymore.

      • It’s all airlines though. I primarily fly AA and it’s a mob scene prior to boarding. I’m Group 1 and usually can’t get even get through the ring of Group 4 people to board when my group is called. They’re all standing around the gate for 20 minutes waiting for their chance to pounce the line (spoiler alert: the overheads will be full, guys).

        • Gail the Goldfish :

          Yes. One of my pet peeves is people who crowd the boarding gate long before their group boards, because it makes it hard for people who actually are boarding to a) find the line and b) get through the line. We’re all getting on the plane, people, and if you aren’t in the first couple of groups, accept the fact you’re not getting your roll aboard on and just get out of the way.

        • I’m undecided as to whether United is worse or better with the actual sectioned off lines for people. It can stress me out when people line up because then I wonder if I should line up too, but like what Anon at 12:00 said, on the other airlines where there aren’t multiple lines, everyone just crowds up there anyway.

        • It’s not a real line, though. It’s a nebulous blob of people that I always merge into near the front when they call my group because who has time to crowd around the desk and ask half the people to move it of the way because they’re anxious and don’t understand how to get on a plane? I hate flying. I refuse to line up with those people.

        • Anonymous :

          I think AA is better than United in this aspect though, because it’s easier to move through a mob of people than to cut in front of a line. I basically tell people in the mob around the boarding area that I have priority boarding and ask them (politely) to get out of my way. But if people have officially queued up, you can’t really jump ahead of them.

    • United sucks, but this is an absolutely bizarre response to an innocuous comment!

      • They all suck.

        I don’t think it’s bizarre to not want to make small talk with somebody who was reading my phone over my shoulder, though

        • Anonymous :

          Or maybe he wasn’t? “You text quickly” doesn’t mean he read anything you were writing…

          • Anonymous :

            Yeah, I would just assume he was looking at your hands not what was actually on your phone. I think you’re hugely overreacting.

      • +10000 Such a bizarre response! Also completely bizarre that you were so bothered by an innocuous comment that you felt the need to vent about it here.

        • boston anon :

          agreed – why did you have such a strong reaction? i would have just been like ‘uh huh’ and continued. and i’m not much of a small talk person either

          • TravelBug :

            It’s not the texting part; it’s the age thing. What business do you have asking my age? Leave it out and I’m happy to talk about texting!

            – Signed, Millennial who is tired of people ranting about our generation

          • Shopping Challenged :

            For heavens’ sake, the point of the question wasn’t her age, it was her membership in a group known for its texting proclivities and skills. If she had a burning desire to let him know that she is touchy about her age, she could’ve asked with a laugh if he’s a boomer. Simple.

        • And I think it’s bizarre that people are so bothered by me being bothered by it? So, I digress.

        • Shopping Challenged :

          She’s young, apparently hasn’t had many serious concerns in life yet, so this seems like a big deal. She’ll get over it with age.

          • TravelBug :

            Would you like it if you were a 60s/ 70s baby with a nice purse and I asked you if you were a yuppie? Implying all sorts of interesting judgey things about materialism in your age cohort? Dunno, I’m not that upset, but it just seems weird to ask someone if they belong to a generation, especially one that the NYT loves to hate.

          • Anonymous :

            Do you need a safe space now?

          • TravelBug :

            Four, please! :)

    • Shopping Challenged :

      Haha, poor guy! Tried so hard to stay away from all the dangerous topics like your appearance, what you were wearing, stereotypes about people around you or general negativity, and you still managed to be offended. Give the dude a break. He’s bored, figures you are too; and is just looking for some harmless chitchat. Most annoying thing I see in it is that you weren’t bored, you were trying to get a couple things out before the flight. And that’s exactly what I would’ve said, unless I were almost finished, in which case I’d put the phone away and say “yes. Do you text?”

  18. Anyone have a good summer skinny pant to recommend that isn’t too stretchy? I really don’t like the stretchy chino fabrics. (A little give is ok, but those Old Navy Pixies, for example, are just way too stretchy for me.) Something with a waistband that holds the pants up!

    • Love, love, love the BR Sloane Ankle pant. Not specifically a summer pant though, I wear throughout the year regardless of season.

  19. For those of you who read about my unexpected inheritance in the weekend thread, get ready for the soap opera version: It turns out the reason I didn’t know about it is because 99% of the assets [decedent] had were non-probate assets and another family member, who was named the beneficiary of a large IRA, purposefully kept myself and another named beneficiary from finding out anything about this account because they had cashed out the entire IRA in another account under decedent’s name. And did not pay taxes. So their goal was to keep enough money in [decedent’s] name that if the IRS demanded payment, they would use those funds[i.e., the accounts in decedent’s name but to which myself and another family are the beneficiaries] rather than pro rata share and/or transferee liability for the taxes.

    I’ve spoken with the CPA and attorney involved in this matter. Evidently there is going to be a suit involved, fraud, fiduciary mismanagement, etc.

    So (1) that’s crazy! (2) on competent legal and financial advice, I am going to get a cashier’s check for 200K this afternoon and close out that account. Also crazy.

    Seriously, I feel like this should be on All My Children or something. What a week!

    • Coach Laura :

      That is crazy. Good luck!

    • Diana Barry :

      Whoa, crazy. Make sure your lawyer knows the applicable state’s estate tax and income tax rules so you won’t get dinged for taxes later on!!!!

      • Anonymous :

        +1 – and may be another reason to put the money in its own seperate account and wait a bit before doing anything with it. Still tell H up front, but definitely worth waiting a beat to make sure everything shakes out correctly and taxes are properly accounted for before spending large amounts.

        • Shopping Challenged :

          Dang! Very good point. It’s afternoon the daydream hour, and I’m getting nightmares thinking of someone coming after money& interest. Yikes!

    • Haha, we are going through a similar family drama (not really me, but my mom). Deceitful executor! Strange trusts set up to evade taxes! Secret accounts! Secret land that apparently someone else is squatting on! Anytime I talk to my mom I look forward to the updates. It’s my own soap opera.

  20. I’m visiting Ventura Beach this weekend and am looking for a restaurant to host a birthday dinner for a friend and our families. Does anyone have any recommendations in the area for a group of 6-8, not too expensive ($$ to $$$), not too “foodie” but not traditional steakhouse either? Thanks for your help!!

  21. NYC suggestions? Thinking about going up for a weekend. Arriving at Penn Station and hoping to make it to a game at Yankee Stadium saturday. Big catch is I’m traveling with an infant and would prefer to not have to take a taxi so we can leave the car seat at home. We are happy to walk up to half a mile from train station and I guess will take the subway to the game, but would love to not have to switch lines. Hotel or neighborhood suggestions? thanks for any thoughts.

    • You can take the D from Herald Square. It will take about 30 minutes.

    • You don’t have to use a car seat in a taxi. I know safety and all, but just FYI, you can take a taxi with the infant in a soft carrier like the bjorn.

      • Legally you can, but that’s incredibly, incredibly dangerous. Perhaps more so than just putting the child loose on the seat next to you with a hand on him or her, no joke. And as a New Yorker, I can tell you that taxi accidents are surprisingly common (many friends have been in taxi accidents of varying severity, though none with children in tow fortunately).

        I think using public transportation the whole time should be totally doable. However, if you find yourself needing a car service, GoGreenRide and KidCar are the two I know of that have car seats suitable for infants. Uber Family’s carseats are not for infants as far as I’m aware. I have researched this a fair amount as I’m expecting my first next month, but have no personal experience yet with these services.

        In terms of what to do and where to stay, I’ll plug my lovely family friendly neighborhood: Upper West Side! Easy to get to from Penn Station. You can do the Children’s Museum, Natural History museum, lots of great playgrounds in central and riverside parks, and avoids the overly touristy midtown area. Also plenty of family friendly restaurants. That said, if you’ve never been to NYC before, maybe I’d recommend a more traditional itinerary.

    • Anon in NYC :

      You can take the D from Herald Square. You have to leave Penn Station to get there, but it’s a direct shot to Yankee Stadium (161st St). The subway will take about 30 minutes.

      From Yankee Stadium you can either take the D back into Manhattan, or get the 4 train at 161st St. The 4 train will open up the east side in terms of hotels. The D runs more on the west side / midtown.

      Hotels will depend on what you want to do other than the Yankees game. I’d want to be close to central park (so, UWS/UES), since I would be up early with an infant and won’t necessarily need access to trendy restaurants for dinner or other nightlife.

    • Some ubers have carseats (it’s the “family uber” or something). I was skeptical but I opened a random taxi trunk the other day to put in my stroller, and there was a carseat.

      Otherwise, I agree with the others that subway is the best.

  22. My DH and small child are going out of town for a week without me. I am soooo excited– among the things on my bucket list are spending some time doing some home spa treatments. What are your favorites? Masks, soaks, I don’t even know what exists.

    • Go to sephora or the Face Shop (I prefer the Face Shop) and get yourself a whole bunch of the fabric face masks, and they have eye/foot/hand ones too. Then also pour yourself wine, and put on some Netflix, and then take a bath with fancy salts/bubbles.

    • The foot peel mask is a summer favorite of mine. I also really like the korean sheet masks too – thought amazon has a lot of them cheaper than sephora does – the Tony Moly line are great and not super pricey.

      • Agree, Tony Moly and Kahuna make nice sheet masks. Also stop by Lush and pick up a bath bomb for a soak.

    • Snail sheet masks are the best

  23. How do you know when it’s time to leave a job that is perfectly fine? I’m a mid-level associate. I like my firm and the people I work with a lot, and my work is decently interesting, but I work in a very niche area that is not going to be around forever and I worry about being a senior associate with no transferable skills. My group recognizes this work can’t last forever and is working on expanding to other work, but it’s hard. Another firm in town has posted an opening that would suite me in a more transferable area (think general litigation when I do very specialized litigation). That firm has a good national reputation as a good place to work, but I know nothing about the local office and have no friends who work for the firm to get insight. Do I apply? for what it’s worth, I’m in a pretty small market and worry that if I apply, it might get back to my current employer.

    • Apply. You’re worried about work drying up and your skills not being developed in your current position.

      Take this with a grain of salt because it’s not your exact situation, but when I was applying to other jobs, somebody at my new employer (not a law firm) called up someone at my firm that they knew and who wasn’t listed as a reference and told him that I had applied and asked for his opinion on me. That person never even mentioned it to me until I told him I was leaving. He could have mentioned it to the partnership, and maybe he did, but nobody said anything. I was in NYC biglaw (and some partners knew that I was looking to leave) so it sounds like a different market/situation, but I think it’s just the cost of doing business. People leave.

    • Anonymous :

      I agree you should probably apply. There’s always a risk it well get back to the current employer but if everyone refrained from applying for that reason, no one would ever move jobs and obviously tons of people do.
      My two cents though: it might be worth getting a sense of whether or not you’ll like general litigation by trying to do some general lit projects at your current firm before you move. I moved from a niche (patent litigation, fwiw) to general (for different reasons than you) and am finding that I really miss my niche, both because I miss the substance of my actual specialty (I like science and technology and am sad I never get to learn about it anymore) and simply because I miss the very fact that I had a specialty (I’m the kind of person that would rather do one thing really well and hates trying to do a little bit of everything).

  24. Poll - secrets from spouses :

    If your sibling came to you, told you that they’d fathered a child, and asked you to keep it a secret (including from your brand-new spouse, whom they are friends with), would you keep the secret?

    If you were the spouse, and you found out about this child 5 years later, would you be upset with your spouse for agreeing to keep it a secret from you?

    (Sibling has had no contact with this child from birth up until a few weeks ago, in case that is relevant)

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t believe in secrets between spouses. When the sibling told me, I would tell them I couldn’t keep it a secret from my spouse, and then I would tell my spouse. And yes I would be upset with my spouse if he had kept it a secret from me (but he is aware that I want no secrets between us — every relationship is different and I know many of my friends are happy in relationships that are not as much of an open book as ours).

    • Generally, I can’t keep important secrets from my husband and I think this would count as an important secret. However, I think you can ask yourself if your spouse can legitimately be trusted to keep the secret. If the answer is no, then I think it’s ok not to share this information. The spouse might be angry later, but you have to make the judgment call. Circle of trust has to stay sealed.

      • WHy does this qualify as an “important secret,” though? We don’t know everything about our friends, and it doesn’t necessarily affect his friendship with your husband. The “no secrets between spouses” thing to me doesn’t mean that we should share every piece of information that we come across. In this case, to me that would cross the line toward gossip.

    • Here is your mantra: this is not my secret to share. Repeat as necessary

      No one is asking you to choose between your spouse and your sibling. This has nothing to do with your marriage.

      If your sibling eventually wants to tell your spouse, it will be his decision to do so, not yours.

    • Anonymous :

      No, I wouldn’t keep a secret (especially one like this) from my spouse. There shouldn’t be an expectation from anyone telling a secret that spouses should keep information from one another, that’s not fair. Plus — your relationship with your spouse comes first, your brother comes second. This is what happens when you get married.

      • Yeah, anyone who confides in me knows that if you tell me, you tell my spouse. Pretty standard rule of thumb. My bestie who’s married to a priest says the same.

      • Yes, I assume anything I tell my best friends will be repeated to their spouse.

  25. Can't Don't Attitude :

    I’m getting my popcorn ready for this one…

  26. Yes I would keep the secret. I might be more conflicted if it’s somehow relevant to my new spouse other than “they’re friends.” If I were your spouse, I would not be upset.

    • Pretty Primadonna :

      This is my thought. I don’t understand why this would be a secret I would need to divulge to my spouse.

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