Coffee Break: Pointy Toe Pump

prada-pointy-toe-pumpThis looks like a great pump if you’re on the hunt for something with a lower heel — it’s under 2 inches, which is the perfect height if you’re going to be standing for any length of time, like at a networking event, or a presentation or argument, for example. If you want to be comfortable for an extended period on your feet, this is a good height to do it with. I really love the textured leather in both the black and the beige; it’s versatile, and it’s a little interesting without being too “out there.” It’ll be much more weather-friendly than the suedes, as well. The shoe is available at Nordstrom in sizes 4-11 for $620. Pointy Toe Pump

If you’re looking for something similar but more affordable, check out these pumps priced $75-$105 — and they come in four widths, also. Here’s a pricier shoe that still costs less than the one pictured.

 

(L-all)

Comments

  1. Mary Ann Singleton :

    What kind of belts are in fashion right now? I feel like I need update my belts. Mostly worn with jeans and a blazer for work or jeans and more casual tops for leisure. Bonus points if from Nordstrom. Thanks!

    • Need this too! My belt for jeans snapped in half last weekend.

    • Anonymous :

      Curious – why do you wear a belt? I haven’t in years, but I don’t tuck in shirts, so the line with smoother without one. Or is there some function I’m missing?

      • I can’t not wear a belt unless I get all of my pants tailored (I’m lazy). Pants that fit my legs are too big on my waist and I don’t like the feeling of a baggy waist, feeling like my pants don’t sit right, and having to pull my jeans up all the time.

    • CorporateInCarhartt :

      I wear a belt, because I do the J Crew partial tuck, so the front of my belt, mainly my buckle, shows. I like the way it looks.

    • Mary Ann Singleton :

      I have to wear a belt – I have kind of big (let’s say muscular) thighs and a narrow waist, so jeans/pants inevitably don’t fit right (gapping in the waist if they fit my thighs).

      • Fitness Fan :

        You should check out jeans made for Crossfit/lifters. Tailored for this kind of body!

        • BabyAssociate :

          Woah wait, this is a thing? Can you suggest some brands?

          • Another lifter :

            Barbell Denim is one that all the bloggers love on Instagram. I haven’t tried it myself, but it’s a thing… now, if you can find me some shirts that fit my shoulders and lats, THAT would also be a miracle!

      • Anonymous :

        I’m the anon who asked – I also have large muscular thighs and rear with a small waist and have definitely found plenty of pants that fit off the rack. Personally I wear Wranglers (no, most don’t look like cowboy jeans at all) because they are meant for riding, so they both accommodate the larger thighs that activity generates and are specifically meant to stay in place during movement. I also buy a lot of the curvy White House Black Market pants, jeans and skinnies, and they fit without gapping as well.

    • In-House in Houston :

      I saw a fashion segment on TV that said belts are a must, even with skirts with no belt loops! They showed how a belt just ties the whole outfit together, and from the examples they showed, they were right. I’ve tried it a few times with skirts and like it. I also use a belt around my waist with a tunic and it really changes the look a lot. I always wear a belt with pant if my blouse is tucked in.

  2. Can anyone recommend some cotton sheets that are available from Amazon prime? Doesn’t need to be something super fancy, just comfortable sheets that hold up reasonably well.

    • Senior Attorney :

      We got these for a wedding gift and really like them. Haven’t been washed too many times yet but holding up well after a couple of months: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003S9RATY?colid=K9BG66L6771O&coliid=I2YU36TUL744UG&ref_=hit_wr_dt_vr_md_pt

    • Minnie Beebe :

      Not Amazon prime (at least as far as I know) but I really love the Threshold brand sheets from Target. The percale sheets. I don’t like to spend a ton of money on sheets– I love, love, love pure, crispwhite percale sheets, but just can’t keep them from getting dingy after a few years. The Threshold sheets are the right mix of quality and cost for me. After a few years, they get donated and I buy some new ones.

    • Anonymous :

      Just word to the wise, be careful on amazon prime (amazon in general), most of the sheets that have “cotton” in the title are actually a poly blend once you read the small print

  3. Just a quick vent. I’m so f*cking tired of having to pretend to be nice and chipper and upbeat all the time. I’m working my ass off. I’m doing heavy lifting. I’m frustrated. I’m tired. But it is apparently expected that I do small talk, and smile, and be friendly and never express frustration. Because that is “leadership.” So ladies, does your leadership philosophy include never showing weakness or emotion? Do I really have to keep it together all the time? If it matters I work in a field and organization that is 95% women.

    • OldAndCranky :

      Honestly, it’s my life philosophy. Emotions and attitude are contagious. I don’t mean I never, for example, tell DH when he’s doing something that bugs me. It does mean that I try not to lose my temper and do so and that I try to start the conversation in as positive a way as possible. When I feel like giving vent to my feelings is critically important it’s time for some alone time.

      • When I am really cranky, I tell people that I am feeling grumpy. The truth. And then if I snap at all, it doesn’t seem so bad. I have learned that when I am PMSing, I don’t try to do as much those 2-3 days and I try not to interact with people. Oh, and I am not a troll.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m a senior manager in Big 4 so I work in a large audit room where the mood of one person can easily cascade down to all the levels. When I’m in a particularly foul mood or overwhelmed I lock myself away in a separate conference room so I don’t have to “be nice”.

      • As a first consultant, thanks. The manager or partner being mad makes everyone else upset too. Those rooms are the worst for that.

        • Anne Shirley :

          +1
          Also a relatively new hire and working in the same conference room with an irate partner puts me on edge

          • Anne Shirley :

            But with that said, seeing my manager express frustration in a productive way has been very helpful. It’s made me feel like it’s ok be anxious about a deadline as long as I deal with it productively – i.e., manager will take a walk around the client site to clear her head and invite me along rather than yell at a fellow associate for asking a question

    • I pretend to be chipper and upbeat all the time because allowing myself to show emotion allows me to become wrapped up in it. I try to just mentally acknowledge how I feel, focus on what I can do, and then do that thing. I keep it together all the time because it really does make things easier on me.

    • Do I think I need to be chipper and cheerful 100% of the time? Nope. But leadership is being approachable, having a good attitude, and being someone that people actually want to be led by. Is it tiring? Yup. But that’s the cost of being a good leader. It doesn’t mean you can’t show emotion, it does mean that when you do, people trust you enough to know why you’re emotional.

      • Marshmallow :

        I think JayJay’s last sentence is really important. When someone is constantly upset or annoyed, I don’t have any confidence that it’s for an important reason and I will just be frustrated that you can’t keep it together. But when someone who is normally unshakeable shows emotion, I am going to assume it’s for a real reason.

        • This. My manager is constantly going through times of high stress! bad mood! the sky is falling! and expecting us to listen, help, and pick up her slack. Is been getting even worse lately, perhaps because we do pick up her slack and more. I’d say she’s in an agitated state of some sort more than she’s not.

          It’s frustrating beyond and now I assume unless there is a concrete reason (like someone died), it’s just the same old. It’s at the point that even when she days her boss is upset, it barely fazes, because it happens at least once every two weeks.

          And I think this reads worse in women than men because of how society is, so we have to be extra careful of it. Shouldn’t be but it is. Though there are at least two men in my organization who I feel similarly blase towards their stressed out, angry, yelling moments because they are frequent (not as much as hers but I’m around them less).

      • I am like you. The manageing partner always want’s me to smile and be happy in front of the cleint’s even if they start whining about the billeings. I bill fairley, not aggressiveley, and the manageing partner does his 50% uplift, but as soon as a cleint start’s whining, then the manageing partner just tells them to talk to me, as if it was ME doeing the uplifteing. FOOEY! I know we make more money with an uplift, but if I am not the one doeing the uplifteing, then why should I have to explain it all the time to the cleint’s? DOUBEL FOOEY!

    • Anonymous :

      Um, yes….”keeping it together” is sort of a basic requirement for any job and of being an adult in general. You don’t have to be “chipper” unless you are working at the mall, but you have to be consistently positive and capable of relating to the members of your team, using small talk as appropriate.

      • If you want to see the ultimate inspiration in terms of staying thoughtful and (reasonably) upbeat while the world is crashing, you could do well to read and be humbled by this man. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/28/obama-reckons-with-a-trump-presidency

  4. anon-oh-no :

    I wish Kat would stop promoting items at Nordstrom until Nordstrom decides to stop carrying Trump products. I know I am not the only person that visits this s!te who is declining to shop at Nordstrom right now. And I know there is a growing movement to boycott other retailers as well.

    As a Level IV shopper, stopping shopping at Nordstrom is not easy for me; I basically buy everything there, and I buy a lot of stuff. I truly believe #GrabYourWallet can be effective if enough people do it. Its easy to just stop buying Trump products (I didn’t buy that many to begin with), but getting that message across takes much longer. i.e., if a bunch of people stop buying trump products from Nordstrom, but just buy something else instead, Nordstrom isn’t really effect — eventually, they will pare down, and potentially stop entirely, buying the products to sell, but that takes a while.

    But if those same people stop shopping at Nordstrom altogether, the impact is much louder and faster.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      Is there a big list of companies to boycott?

      I haven’t thought about avoiding Nordstrom while they still carry her line. I’m not buying her products though. Did you tell Nordstrom that you wouldn’t be shopping there until they cut ties with her? I know a bunch of people emailed asking that they drop her line but didn’t realize people were boycotting Nordstrom completely.

      • LondonLeisureYear :

        This is the boycott list that I have been seeing going around:

        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vu0Y0HvadMgG_LN7dF8W7M66oPCcx_nmSARQWirV7iY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

        • And someone else suggested that if you don’t want to boycott Amazon, use Amazon Smile and direct the money to the ACLU.

          • Sydney Bristow :

            I thought Trump wanted to break Amazon up because it’s a monopoly.

            I’ll keep that list in mind, but most of the places I shop are on that list. It would really be extremely difficult for me to avoid them all. I understand what you are saying about speaking Trump’s money language with this.

      • anon-oh-no :

        I did send them a note. Their response was uninspiring. And then I deleted my app, put my credit card away, returned something (with another note) that had just been delivered, and took to facebook. Others are doing the same.

        I don’t think this is an extreme position. And I too like Nordstrom as a whole (as evidenced by the fact that I literally spend tens of thousands of dollars there every year). But what has transpired with the Trumps over the past year is too important for me to let slide. Calling congresspeople is an option, protesting is an option, donating to planned parenthood, ACLU etc are options, taking pro bono work is an option (all of which can and will do). But I believe the Trumps speak one language, and that language is Money. So we need to speak their language to be heard. And I have the ability to speak that language, so I am doing so.

      • I LOVE nordstroms and bloomingdales and will not be shopping at either while they carry her line. I wrote both of them a nice letter and dropped it off for the GM of the SF store downtown at westfield – I know that this may or may not change how they view carrying Ivanka’s line but I do want to speak through civil work and engagement and also through my wallet.I also wrote them a polite but firm email saying the same thing.

    • Anonymous :

      I am pretty sure that my ability to interact with the world would end if I let politics intervene in my commerce. I’d draw my line at Roman Polanski and Bill Cosby and give the side-eye to Woody Allen. I refuse to stop seeing some bands and musicians. And I probably love all of the artists, politics and all.

      So I’m still shopping at Nordies. But not American Apparel.

    • I respect your position on this.

      To me, your position seems extreme because Ivanka Trump (the brand) is not Ivanka Trump (the person) and Ivanka Trump (the person) is not Donald Trump. Therefore, Ivanka Trump (the brand) is not Donald Trump. So, buying Ivanka Trump things is not supporting Donald Trump.

      -someone who did not vote for Donald Trump, for the record

      I will still shop at Nordstrom because I like Nordstrom considered as a whole.

      • Anon for this :

        But Ivanka Trump (the person) wore Ivanka Trump (the brand) when speaking on behalf of Donald. I refuse to buy anything of hers.

        I hadn’t considered avoiding entire stores who carry her line, though.

        • Point taken.

          I’d like to reserve judgement and see what, if any, political role Ivanka ends up playing under a Trump administration. Since she doesn’t have any background in politics or government (to my knowledge), I would be surprised if she takes a political/government position. I still don’t know what to make of her campaign involvement and wonder if, from her perspective, she was so far just doing what any daughter would do with her father running for President.

          That being said, I neither own nor want any Ivanka Trump products.

          • NationalAnthem :

            Totally not a jab at you because I know what you’re saying and I agree, but given where we are at now with her father, I sort of chuckled when I read the statement “since she doesn’t have any background in politics or government (to my knowledge), I would be surprised if she takes a political/government position”

          • Read in the wsj today that she won’t have a political role in the new administration, but her husband may…

      • I agree that this position is extreme. I don’t think it’s American to attempt forcing someone out of business because you disagree with their politician father. That’s actually a bit socialist.

        • Senior Attorney :

          It’s not just “disagree with their politician father.” She has been literally and figuratively at his side every step of the way. She is a top advisor. I absolutely hold her accountable for his actions.

          Also she is using his position to promote her business (see, e.g., the bracelet she wore for the 60 Minutes interview). It goes both ways.

          • I think she wore one of her dresses when she spoke at the RNC too.

          • I have stopped buying any Ivanka merchandise, both for this reason and because she has been sued multiple times by designers for blatantly copying their designs. I used to buy a lot of Ivanka shoes. I think I’ve given away all but one pair.

          • So what if she wears her stuff when she makes appearances? It would make you feel better if she didn’t?

          • Senior Attorney :

            She is literally shilling her stuff by sending out “style alerts” about how she wore the bracelet on 60 Minutes. It would make me feel better if she didn’t do that, yes.

        • Anonymous :

          How does that have anything to do with socialism? People are free to boycott whatever they want to.

          • The difference is in “I choose not to buy those things” versus “I demand that the stores I like stop carrying those things.”

          • Choosing not to buy those things is just asking stores not to carry them, without actually telling them. No one is demanding that the *government* take action here – consumers are expressing to the private businesses that they patronize a request that those businesses stop carrying Ivanka Trump’s brands.

            Isn’t that better than just not shopping at Nordstrom because they carry Ivanka and NOT telling Nordstrom that was the reason? Why is it okay to make that choice – but not okay to tell the business *why* you made that choice?

          • Anonymous :

            “Demanding that the stores I like not carry things” is not socialism either. Perhaps go read up on what socialism is.

        • Excuse me, Senator McCarthy, since when are being socialist and American mutually exclusive?

        • Anonymous :

          I think you have no idea what socialism means. Individual citizens choosing which private businesses they patronize is one of the central tenants of capitalism.

        • Anonymous :

          This is not remotely socialist. If anything, this is the free market.

        • I don’t think “socialist” means what you think it means.

          Private citizens are entitled to elect where to spend their money, whether that decision is based on price, concern about employee wages, objection to the brands carried, etc. The free choice of the consumer is the core of capitalism. Boycotts are an essentially capitalist activity.

          If the *government* tried to force Ivanka out of business over her political views, that actually *still* wouldn’t be socialism, but it would be un-American, in my view.

        • Aunt Jamesina :

          How on earth is it socialist for a private citizen to choose where to spend their dollars by boycotting a product or company? That’s capitalism in action!

          The former history teacher in me is feeling cranky.

      • Agreed, though I don’t really shop there much.

        To be honest, I don’t get the point of boycotting places that carry Ivanka Trump brand. What’s the goal? I’m not trying to say this as an insult or anything, I genuinely want someone to explain it to me so that I can understand! (For instance, I understand boycotting brands using child labor, etc. with the end goal of those companies no longer using those practices. I understand the logic of boycotting businesses that don’t allow unions with the goal of them allowing unions.)

        • anon-oh-no :

          see my note above. The goal in my mind is to hurt Trump businesses where it matters — their bottom lines. And the goal of that is to get them to wake up. Ivanka could have behaved differently. She could have (I certainly would have) said something to the effect of: “I disagree politically with my father but I know he is a wonderful businessman and he is my father. I support him.” and then shut up and stayed out of it. But she didnt. She actively campaigned for him and tried to rationalize and normalize his extreme and inappropriate positions and actions. And that is not OK with me.

          • Plus, she’s actually part of his transition team, and who knows what other position he’ll put her in once he’s sworn in. She’s not just a passive family member here.

          • I guess I just don’t understand the goal or the timing – it seems more like people reacting to the election than trying to garner a concrete result. If sales drop, I don’t know if these retailers will know it’s due to carrying these lines, there are so many possibilities (as opposed to buying from the retailers but not these lines, showing that these lines are the ones they need to drop). Even if the sales of these lines drop dramatically, I don’t know how that will affect DT being President or decisions he makes in office.

            I appreciate you explaining, I just don’t see a good, concrete result. I can see not supporting a brand you don’t like/approve of, which is something we all do (to different degrees), but a boycott to me has a concrete result in mind.

            Personally, her stuff has mostly been way out of my price range and what is severely discounted isn’t my taste, anyway. I was just wondering about it.

      • Some of my favorite clothes are from Ivanka’s line and I’ll continue buying things that I like. I think this whole boycott is ridiculous and childish. Her business employs hundreds and creates affordable work attire for thousands. Why make life more difficult than it needs to be by boycotting places like Nordstrom and Amazon? Plus it seems to me we should support Ivanka’s involvement with the Trump transition because she and her husband are probably the only ones who have any sense on that team.

        • …how much do you know about Jared Kushner?

        • anon lawyer :

          You think its childish? Yes, it makes like more difficult. But that is the point.

        • Ridiculous and childish?? Hmmm. Just heard an interview on NPR with leadership of “alt-right” movement, with which Trump is affiliated, and lovely Ivanka too. I won’t summarize, but look it up and listen. It’s horrifying. Nothing in opposition to this is ridiculous or childish.

        • Anonymous :

          +1000

    • Anonymous :

      I agree with you, that if people stopped shopping at Nordies altogether until Nordies stopped carrying Ivanka products, Nordies would get the message LOUD AND CLEAR. Unfortunately, I think enough people feel the way June (above at 2:34) feels, and enough people value their own time over their power for activism, that it won’t happen. I personally don’t shop at Nordies and the Ivanka thing just confirms that I won’t be shopping there anytime soon. I hope your post inspires others to stop shopping at Nordies.

      • Anonymous :

        Please ….. don’t call it Nordies..

        • Better (to me) than calling it Nordstrom’s, which grates like nails on a chalkboard.

          • Anonymous :

            Uggghhh that’s what my mom says. Every damn time.

          • Anonymous :

            ???????

          • Anon @ 4:10 The name of the store is Nordstrom. It’s not plural and it is not possessive. I don’t know why making names possessive is such a prominent American verbal tic, but it annoys the crap out of me.

          • Anonymous :

            Tx for the explanation.

            I didn’t even “see” the ‘s… as my brain is very good at filtering out things are useless and of no consequence. It helps in life.

    • I appreciate that Kat has generally avoided politics in her posts here and would prefer that she continue to keep her choices here generally apolitical as well. There are plenty of places for politics out there (and I think that it’s fine in the comments, as they are generally a place to discuss anything that’s on your mind); fashion posts don’t need to be one of them.

      • anon-oh-no :

        If this were just about politics, I would agree with you. But I think this has gone far, far beyond politics.

        Kat is free to post what she wants, but I’m also free to voice my opinion. I’m not gonna click on the products she posts from Nordstrom, and I’m obviously not gonna buy them. Not sure if her blog makes money that way, as many do, but in any event, it makes her posts significantly less relevant to me. And I’ve purchased quite a few of the posted items (wearing one today in fact), and tons of items that I found when clicking on the posted items.

        • I agree that I prefer Kat stay neutral. Plus, she didn’t solely post links to places you are boycotting.

          I do think that no longer posting from these places for only the reason that they carry Ivanka Trump products would make the site no longer relatively neutral. Even among the far left, I think many aren’t boycotting.

    • Anonymous :

      I can boycott Trump without boycotting Nordstrom.

      • Anon in NYC :

        This is generally my feeling too. I’m less inclined to boycott a store that sells the Trump brand out of many other brands. I’m not about to stop shopping at Zappos or Amazon. I won’t buy Trump products from those retailers, because I do agree that the Trumps understand Money and the bottom line. I will, however, boycott New Balance, Yuengling, Hobby Lobby (although I already did do that), and so on, because of their stated support for him. If Nordstroms or Zappos or Amazon came out and said that the org. or CEO supported Trump, I would stop shopping there.

      • Shopaholic :

        +1 – a friend was telling me that she was at a discount store and all she could see was Ivanka Trump clothes that were super discounted.

        I think it’s starting to work, at least in big, relatively liberal cities.

        I also have a pair of Ivanka shoes I need to get rid of because I refuse to wear them again, despite the fact that I did really like them.

        • Serious question for you all. I have several Ivanka blouses (bought years ago). I don’t want them and will not wear them anymore, but they are in good condition and would be very appropriate to donate to an organization that supports women transitioning to the professional workforce who need business-appropriate workwear. However, I can’t help thinking of a person of color gratefully accepting these donations and then discovering to her horror that she’s wearing “Ivanka Trump” branding as she heads off to her new job. Thoughts? What are those of you who have Ivanka clothing doing? Wearing it still? Donating it? Giving it to Goodwill?

    • Brunette Elle Woods :

      I will still buy from Nordstrom. I just wouldn’t buy anything associated with Trump. If they see her line not doing well, they will no longer want to stock her products. Why sell her products when you could sell items that actually, well, sell!

    • Anonymous :

      I mean, the power company does business with them and their 401K provider and their banks and hotel item suppliers and Visa and Mastercard and golf club suppliers do, too. But you’re not suggesting we give up Visa or MasterCard, are you? Or the paper suppliers to the NY Sun (or the bodegas that carry it)?

      FWIW, I’d rather have Ivanka advising her father than many other people. What are the odds that the next person could stand up to him at all, much less be a working mother of small children?

      • Bewitched :

        Oh, please. If you think for one second she understands or supports the needs of the average working woman, you are delusional. When she speaks up in favor of Planned Parenthood or abortion (her father has virtually promised to eliminate both), she will have my support. Until then, no. She’s pretty much a clone of him.

        • Anonymous :

          Who else do you think he’s going to get — Elizabeth Warren or someone to your liking? Sarah Palin? Some random bro? It’s not like there are good options.

    • I have to say that I drove pretty far out of my way to find a sheath dress in a petite for a conference that I will be leading in a few weeks. There were almost no petites in the store at all and that location (Aventura in Miami) is a pretty big store. I ended up finding some really nice petite clothes in the Banana Republic though. Won’t bother with Norstrom again anyway.

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t want Kat to stop posting nordies picks. Been shopping there since I was 15 and you’ll have to pry my Nordstoms card out of my cold dead hand.

      However, I’ve never once bought anything by ivanka (or Jessica Simpson or jlo or other celebrity) because I hate buying celebrity stuff. And you won’t catch me staying at one of trump’s hotels. But I won’t boycott a store that carries the label.

    • Pantsuits 4-EVA :

      Obviously, everyone is free to make their own choices re: where to shop, and I haven’t bought and won’t buy anything with the Trump name on it, ever (#Imwithher, still)

      But honestly, I think we’d all be much better off (and I mean We, the People) if the energy devoted to keeping up with brands and boycotts were instead spent on contacting your representatives, running for office, supporting organizations making real change and protecting citizens’ rights. I mean, not buying Ivanka Trump merchandise takes no real sacrifice. Fighting to preserve American’s civil liberties, access to abortion, access to healthcare, slowing climate change… THIS is what we need to focus on.

      • Agreed regarding the energy. I know so many people doing things in reaction to the election that won’t move anything towards their causes but not doing things that works, as you suggest. I also feel strongly that many of them won’t be thinking of these things in another few months, considering some have already moved on.

        I’m in the camp of seeing what happens and supporting in hopes of a good term, but I can understand those who reasonably are not and want to stand up for rights. I’m prepared to stand up for things if things begin taking a negative turn. I’ve heard people say things as drastic as internment camps, the USD becoming valueless, and state enforced religion. Even if a president tried any of those things, they wouldn’t succeed today. Many Trump voters, along others, world stand against those things (and lesser ones).

        • Also, I think people should have been fighting for their causes before, during, and after the election. I get fed up with the many who don’t and then complain.

  5. Party attire! :

    I found a sitter so I can go to my husband’s work holiday party (weekend night, so work clothes would look weird).

    I have some crazy sparkly heels (likely not comfortable), so I’d like the rest of my outfit (I have, ahem, outgrown my usual one, so need to purchase and have no time for alterations) to be comfy.

    What do you think of this:
    http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/halogen-embellished-neck-shift-dress-regular-petite/4392372?origin=shoppingbag

    I like the 70s vibe. I am late 30s, size 6ish, lots of junk in the trunk.

  6. Anonymous :

    Over 9,000 attorneys have signed this letter opposing Stephen Bannon’s appointment –

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdNpd-ixtkXmgTFewOHtJdRlv_ERao2Dl88sO7RcWK6Q_NEdA/viewform

    I know there are a lot of lawyers on this site, some of you may be interested to read and sign.

    • Anonymous :

      Thank you.

    • Firm Politics :

      My firm explicitly takes no position on political issues. We won’t endorse a candidate or put signs in front of our business. I know listing your business is optional but it asks you to list the states where you are admitted. If this list is published, it will be very easy to see what lawyers are from what firm. If you are signing this “as a lawyer” are you then essentially making a statement on behalf of your firm in a way? I’m trying to figure if I need to ask firm permission for this first.

      I’m guessing the lawyers that wrote the amicus brief on the abortion case must have consulted their firms, right? That would bring serious publicity.

      • Marshmallow :

        I won’t be signing for this reason. My firm had a similar policy and when I became a federal clerk this year, I became subject to the Hatch Act. Pretty sure signing “as a lawyer” as opposed to just myself would be using my position to promote a partisan cause. :( I’m doing plenty in my personal capacity though, so I don’t feel too bad.

        So yeah, I would check with your firm before signing. They might be fine with it.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        Same reason I’m not signing- too easy to connect me with my org and we’re prohibited under federal law from engaging in political advocacy.

  7. Review Help :

    Hi, all,

    I’m an attorney about to undergo my first review and have a sheet to fill out about my work, skills, goals, etc. that I bring to the meeting. This is also when salary will be discussed.

    Any tips/recommendations? I’ve never gone through a process like this or had a salary increase discussion (just the types of jobs I had before law school). I’m at a midsized firm, but this is with some people I don’t deal with daily/much. I’m planning on mentioning some issues but mostly focusing on the positive (only the issues that work their way into my areas to improve and goals). I’ve taken on a lot more than was expected initially and have only gotten positive feedback other than two minor times. Good things to say for what I do poorly and what to improve? I have some but think I need to put more.

    TIA!

    • Frozen Peach :

      Describe yourself 20 or 30% more positively than you think you should. The men will. Signed, someone who wished she knew that sooner.

      • Anonymous :

        +1. Plus, after you’ve finished it, read through it (or even do a find) for every time you say that you “think” something or you “believe” or you “feel.” Most of those can and should be changed to “you are” or “you do.” You don’t believe you have a good grasp on xyz. You do.

        • Review Help :

          Thank you both!

          I try to always go through emails to do this, since I noticed that I do use these terms frequently. I had a law school teacher point it out as a common thing to the class. Since then, I’ve also noticed that men rarely use these terms, but women frequently do!

          I’m normally really bad at talking myself up, but, being entirely honest, there’s not much I can call out as negative in my performance. There is room to improve, of course, but many have even told me that I have performed better/advanced more (in terms of what I’m given) than a usual first year. I’m absolutely not perfect but am likely the best in my position and one of the top in the department (others have said so as well). I think the improvement areas are more of usual associate growth areas than anything.

          I went through and filled it out but want to take another pass. Balancing honest opinion/office politics/showing that I acknowledge deficiencies/proving I’m good/etc. is tough.

          Thanks!

    • Babyweight :

      Yes! and keep an email folder entitled “accolades” and drop every significant to you complimentary email in there. at some firms you can attach those to your reviews. Especially ones where clients dote on you — those are killer and if you don’t keep them and use them, then it’s like they never existed.

      — 11 years in, wish I knew this in my first year.

      • Review Help :

        Unfortunately, almost all are verbal, especially from clients. I have some emailed from other attorneys in the firm, but none of those are really the great ones! They tend to be more of the ‘we just won this case, thanks to a for x work, b for y work, and z and the rest of the team for all the hard work’ emails.

        Also, I started keeping a record of what I’ve been doing, hours, accomplishments, etc. but then in busy busy time fell behind. I’ll start it again but not in time for this review. I wish I had kept up with it! So irritated with myself over that!

        I’ll also start keeping an accolades folder. There isn’t anywhere to put them for the review but would be good to keep.

  8. Parent issues :

    I’m curious about the poster from yesterday who said her parents gave her a gift of paying off her student loans and then later demanded repayment at $800 per week. If you’re still reading today, how in the world did you handle that situation?

    • Hi! It’s me. I stopped speaking to them for a year and said that I would resume speaking if and when they got some therapy. They finally, after almost a year, found a counselor to sit down with together in my city, admitted that they had presented it as a gift, and gave me a card with a note saying so.

      This was while I was planning my wedding to someone they didn’t like because his job/race/class background did not meet their standards.

      In short, I confirmed with lots of people that I wasn’t crazy and hadn’t made it up, read a lot about gaslighting and toxic family relationships, got a lot of therapy, and cut off contact. They wanted to re-initiate, and I made clear what my terms were. We now have a pretty good relationship, as long as I maintain good boundaries, which requires constant vigilance. If you’re interested in some of the books/resources that helped me, I’m happy to share. It was the worst time in my life, ever.

      • Parent issues :

        Yes, I would be very interested in names of books and resources. I suspect I have a lot of the same types of issues to work out with my parents (gaslighting in particular). I’m sorry that that happened to you, but I’m glad that you were able to find a way forward and protect yourself. Thanks for responding.

      • Anonymous :

        Yes – book recs please!

      • This will be long… I’m going to paste a bunch of links. If anyone wants to connect offline, let me know and we can make it happen. This is a really really tough thing that most people will NOT understand or be able to advise you about. Al-Anon meetings are a great place where people will understand, even if alcohol is not at all a part of your family’s dysfunction. I have read all of these and recommend all of them. As a dear friend and I decided about self-help books and therapy, etc, sometimes you have to hear the same thing 20 different ways– or you have to hear it in the way that is right for you in your present circumstances.

        An Adult Child’s guide to what’s normal– https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Childs-Guide-Whats-Normal/dp/1558740902/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479422613&sr=8-2&keywords=john+friel

        https://www.amazon.com/Coping-Your-Difficult-Older-Parent/dp/038079750X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479422701&sr=8-1&keywords=coping+with+your+difficult+older+parent

        https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/1442238321/ref=pd_sim_14_72?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NM994XNHRATF5D8M7JSC

        https://www.amazon.com/Language-Letting-Meditations-Codependents-Meditation/dp/0894866370/ref=pd_sim_14_67?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NM994XNHRATF5D8M7JSC

        https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972/ref=pd_sim_14_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NM994XNHRATF5D8M7JSC

        https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-Revised-Expanded/dp/0071790950/ref=pd_sim_14_14?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=TPDMZEVJJC1FBK592ZFS

        https://www.amazon.com/Gaslight-Effect-Survive-Manipulation-Control/dp/0767924452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1479423222&sr=1-1&keywords=gaslight+effect

  9. My husband has a nice, slim Skagen watch that he has loved but it is time for an upgrade, and he wants a nicer version but still slim. Price range is probably up to about $2,000. Any ideas for an automatic, slim-line, nice watch?

    • Anonymous :

      Get the new Apple Watch, which is smaller, thinner, and has a nice sleek band

      And take the rest of the $$ and go on a vacation together!

      • He’s wanting a Forever Watch that he could even pass down to our kids. My problem with Apple watches and the like is that the tech will be obsolete in a couple of years.

    • I would go to a nice jeweler’s so he can see a large selection and what he likes. One that I personally like is Nomo Glashutte which would be in your price range and very much a luxury, heirloom watch without being as flashy as a Rolex.

  10. How is everyone handling the news these days? I’m trying to be engaged and informed, but processing the ramifications of trump’s actions is terrifying and causing me major anxiety about the future. And the man isn’t even in office yet.

    I’m already calling my reps, going to local party meetings and giving money to good causes, but it feels like none of this helps.

    Some people I know are like, “it won’t be as bad as you think; he’s crazy but what can you do?; checks and balances will keep him under control, etc.” But none of that reassures me.

    Am I overreacting or am I right to be terrified and feel helpless?

    • Anonymous :

      I feel terrified and helpless. I’m spending more time than I should on Politico’s transition process blog.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      I’m stressed about it. I think I need to pick a couple of news sources and just stick with them because there is just too much out there. I’ve subscribed to my hometown paper, The NY Times, and think I will be adding the Atlantic. I also have a Washington Post subscription through work. I think investigative journalism is going to become even more important so I want to support it.

      I’ve been trying to decide where to donate. I think I’ve decided on Emily’s List and the New York Abortion Access Fund.

    • I know this sounds kind of woo woo, but I’m trying to stay in the moment.

      There are a lot of things that could happen. There are a lot of ways this could go. I am trying to focus on what is actually happening right now rather than making up catastrophic scenarios. I’m also reading some conservative (non-fringe) websites to get an idea of what they think is going to happen. They’re worried too, which I take as a good sign– I would be more concerned if it were all “rah rah! this is so great! everything is going to go great! all hail our great leader!”. I’m deeply concerned about what may happen in the next several years, but beyond staying informed and doing what I can (contacting my representatives), I’m just trying to remain in the moment.

      • What conservative sources are you looking at? I’ve only looked at the headlines on WSJ (don’t have a subscription) and they don’t seem concerned. My media is pretty left, can you recommend some alternatives?

        • National Review and The Weekly Standard

        • The Federalist and National Review. I’ve been basically binge reading them for the past couple of days after never having read conservative-leaning news on purpose in my life. Not everything is good, and some of it really burns my biscuits (liberals are a bunch of whiny babies who just need to suck it up, in case you were unaware), but there have been some thought provoking articles. And some really negative stuff about Trump, like an article about how he is going to be reluctant to get rid of Obamacare because of a huge conflict of interest where his son in law made 45 million dollars off of it selling insurance policies. I was pretty shocked to see that one.

          A couple interesting articles:
          The Election is Over Now Trump Must Govern- Jonah Goldberg
          What Both the Left and the Right Should Learn From Trump’s Election- Paul David Miller
          Steve Bannon is not a Nazi– But Lets Be Honest About What He Represents – Ian Tuttle
          And, most shocking of all, a moment of zen:
          Instead of Gloating, Have Empathy for the Liberals Mourning Trump’s Win- Jennifer Doverspike

          I just kind of wandered around all over the websites and clicked on anything that sounded interesting but not like it would make me totally enraged.

      • Which websites are you reading? I think I need more sources to look at.

    • Being Honest Here :

      I’m sticking my head in the sand. I was very worried about him being elected before the election. My husband tried to reassure my anxieties and tell me everything would be fine (for us at least – ugh) no matter what. Post election I’m basically burned out and not discussing it or reading it and skipping past many discussions here too. My husband on the other hand is now the anxious one and researching all sorts of things to do. We basically swapped spots. I don’t think I can change anything. Worrying about it only hurts myself. I’m shutting down for a bit, selfishly, and coming back up when I feel like I can handle it better.

      • Sunflower :

        I’ve always been a voracious consumer of news and current events, but I just can’t handle them right now. I’m temporarily shutting down, too.

    • Review Help :

      I’ve always worked to read from sources leaning both ways – and the occasional unbiased source when possible! I think is important to do that now as well, especially when a lot of liberal leaning publications make it sounds like all Republicans are doing x but then reading conservative leaning publications they are concerned about people doing x as well.

  11. At my company (big 4) PTO covers days off and sick days. Boss asked if I was taking any days off around Thanksgiving and I said no. Now something came up where I might need to leave at 3 to go to a doctors appt. Is this a big deal to ask for? Do I take a half day off or just make up the hours later?

    • Is your boss a crazy? If not, it’s totally reasonable. “Hey boss- you asked about time off around thanksgiving. It actually looks like I’ll need to be out XX.

    • This is totally know-your-office. My boss would want a heads up that I’m leaving at 3 (just in case he’s looking for me), but wouldn’t expect me to take a half-day (or any time) because he knows I’ll make it up somewhere. If I’m leaving at 4, he doesn’t even need to know about it.

    • Anonymous :

      This would not be a big deal in my office. But I always encourage new staff to approach with an attitude of “Hi, wanted to let you know that I will be leaving early but this is what I’m currently working on and this is my plan to complete it”.

    • Brunette Elle Woods :

      What would you normally do for a Doctors appointment? It’s only a few hours around the holidays. It shouldn’t be a problem.

      • Review Help :

        I think the question is because she’s new to the position/company.

        I’d approach the boss this way: ‘I know I told you I don’t need any PTO around Thanksgiving but an important doctor’s appointment came up at 3 on Wednesday. I really don’t want to have to reschedule it; will it create problems if I leave at 3 but either come in early or stay late the night before?’

        As others said, it is a know your office situation, but I think most offices would be fine with that. If it did create an issue or you aren’t allowed to make up time like that, they’ll just tell you.

  12. How do you meet guys? For those who did not meet their spouse or significant other in school, where did you meet them?

    I have been single for as long as I’ve been in the workforce (a year and a half), after being in 3 relationships throughout most of high school and college. I have gone on a few scattered dates since then (via online dating as well as one guy from work) but no meaningful long term relationships.

    I don’t feel desperate to find someone. I’m 23, I have plenty of time to settle, and I am honestly enjoying the freedom of being single and not having to check in with anyone, and I tend to be very focused on my job and work some long nights. Still, I’m starting to wonder where all the great guys are. As a serial monogamist in HS and college, I’m a bit surprised at how long I have been single right now. I don’t want to actively seek out dates (I’m done with online dating), but I think I expected that I would have started dating someone by now.

    I’m not one for the bar/club scene, and also I am not sure that that’s where I want to find someone anyway.

    Long story short, any suggestions of where to meet people? Where did you meet your SO if it wasn’t in school? Anyone with similar problems?

    • Oh, you’re so young. I’m 32 and also wondering how/when/if I will meet someone to be in a relationship with. It may already be too late for me, but not for you!

      I don’t mean to scare you. I didn’t date at all in high school or college, so I got a late start. But even at 23 I was worried! I know so many people who met their spouses/partners after school, often in their late twenties. And some of them met their spouses in grad school, so if further education is in your future, I wouldn’t discount that as an option. I think you may be in a stage of life where people are a little rootless and less likely to think about settling down or getting into a relationship. You may find that things change in a few years.

      • Well I feel the same as the OP. I also dated but didn’t have a boyfriend (was not particularly interested) but now I feel more worried/serious

      • Anonymous :

        Also 32 and thinking it’s too late for me.

        It sucks.

      • 36 and basically knowing it is too late for me. COMPLETELY sucks.

        • But it is completely NOT too late! It never is. People find relationship happiness at all sorts of ages. But giving up likely will impede that process.

        • 36 yr old Single Anon :

          Uh, wut? Are you dead? No? Then it’s not too late.

          • Senior Attorney :

            WHAT???

            Good Lord.

            I’m 58 and just got married to somebody I met when I was 55. I met him at our local Rotary Club, which is an amazing way to meet people who are interested in doing service to the community.

            Too late at 36 or 32? Good Lord.

          • 32 or 36 is too late for the majority of people if you want to have 2-3 kids, especially if you want to date at all before getting married, plan a large wedding so your family can all come, and then be married for any amount of time. If you don’t I definitely agree with you but saying you can find someone at 38 or 45 is cold comfort to people who want biological kids with a husband.

            -30

          • A good friend met a guy at 39, dated for a year, planned a 400 person wedding in four months (it can be done – just outsource everything and don’t be too picky about selections) and gave birth at 41, less than a year after the wedding. It does happen. I agree meeting at 45 is too late if you want bio kids and haven’t frozen your eggs but you can totally meet someone in your late 30s, have a big wedding and have bio kids.

      • I’m 38 and just celebrated my first wedding anniversary. We’re trying for kids. When I turned 34 I realized that if I wanted to get married and have a family I needed to take drastic action. I had been on a few (probably 5-10) uninspired Match dates a few years previously but had not been in a relationship since college. I ended up signing up with an excellent dating coach. We worked together on how I presented myself both physically (started wearing makeup for the first time) and personally. (I needed to work on my conversational skills. I’ve always had a few close friends but wasn’t great at the ‘getting to know you’ stage of meeting people. These skills have helped me professionally too.) The coach also provided support (and accountability) when I went online to meet people. I ended up meeting my husband through a chance encounter.

        The biggest mental hurdle was getting over the idea that I should just naturally meet someone without effort. There’s an idea in our culture that women aren’t supposed to try for relationships (see, for example, “just stop trying and you’ll meet someone”) and that if you’re trying you’re desperate. In no other aspect of life is a lack of effort seen as a good thing and rewarded. Relationships are not the exception.

    • I’m over a decade older than you, but when in my 20s, I met people to date via social sports, activities of mutual interest, and once I got a bit older, online (Tinder, Match, etc.). As you are enjoying being single, get involved in some extra-curricular activities! Join a young professionals group, a kickball/softball/dodgeball/golf/bowling/skeeball league, if you are into running join a local running club (we have a beer runners group, as well as multiple other running-based groups that are very friendly), volunteer, etc.

    • Jitterbug :

      I’m 27, and I met my current boyfriend through friends. Literally just going to a friend’s house to hang out and watch a movie. I met one other guy doing that, and I’ve met a couple guys through swing dancing.

    • Anonymous :

      I met my husband when I was 29 (now 35) on . . . Craigslist. . . in the Casual Encounters section. I had been single a long time and was new to the city and had little to lose. So I guess that’s online dating, but not standard. I wasn’t crazy into him at first, and was a bit suspicious that he wanted to keep taking me on dates- but he wore me down. Turns out a guy who was nothing like anyone I had dated was exactly what I needed. We tell people we met on Match though.

    • Anonymous :

      If you don’t feel desperate to be in a relationship, then stop worrying about being single at 23.

      My advice to you? Take the focus off dating/meeting someone for the sake of a relationship ENTIRELY for a while, maybe six months to a year. Enjoy the single life, you’re not even 25. Who knows, maybe you’ll meet someone when you’re not actively looking.

      If you want to meet people as friends, join various groups like CountC mentioned. Other thoughts – join your college/university local alumni group? Volunteer groups?

      FWIW even though my SO and I went to the same college, we didn’t meet until a few years after we both graduated and were introduced by a mutual friend. We started out as friends and then later on it developed into a romantic relationship.

    • BeenThatGuy :

      I tell people all the time about speed-dating. I’ve had 2 long-term relationships come out of these events. If you can talk to someone in the check out line at the grocery store, you can succeed at speed-dating.

    • It sounds cliche, but at that age, I recommend thinking about the kind of person you want to be/the kind of life that you want to live. Then go out and be that person/live that life. You will not automatically meet a life partner–in fact, at some point, you may have to put a lot of effort into finding one, either via online dating or anything else. But if you are making an effort to spend your time and money on experiences and things that interest you, as well as being intentional surrounding yourself with the kind of people that you want to be friends with, you will have a better chance of meeting someone organically.

      I met my husband at a bar.

    • I met my ex-husband when I was 21 through mutual friends, then after that ended I dated someone from work (different departments in a company with over 10,000 employees), and now at 34 have been happily dating the first guy I met on Tinder for the past nine months.

    • I’m 38 and just celebrated my first wedding anniversary. We’re trying for kids. When I turned 34 I realized that if I wanted to get married and have a family I needed to take drastic action. I had been on a few (probably 5-10) uninspired Match dates a few years previously but had not been in a relationship since college. I ended up signing up with an excellent dating coach. We worked together on how I presented myself both physically (started wearing makeup for the first time) and personally. (I needed to work on my conversational skills. I’ve always had a few close friends but wasn’t great at the ‘getting to know you’ stage of meeting people. These skills have helped me professionally too.) The coach also provided support (and accountability) when I went online to meet people. I ended up meeting my husband through a chance encounter.

      The biggest mental hurdle was getting over the idea that I should just naturally meet someone without effort. There’s an idea in our culture that women aren’t supposed to try for relationships (see, for example, “just stop trying and you’ll meet someone”) and that if you’re trying you’re desperate. In no other aspect of life is a lack of effort seen as a good thing and rewarded. Relationships are not the exception.

    • You are younger me :

      This sounds super familiar to me. I tried hinge and joining clubs and considering coworkers to no avail. What did work for me: going to things with sort-of friends. Like that person who invites you to their apartment-warming but you aren’t BFFs so maybe you’ll just relax at home? GO. Or if your coworker invites you to drinks with his college friends, go. I realized a few years ago that I complained about not meeting people but every weekend I had Facebook events I was ignoring or friends I didn’t see often who I wasn’t making an effort to meet up with. These sort of things were what panned out for me (I’ve heard that this theory of loose connections applies to networking too- something about access to other circles that you are not part of?). I almost skipped a dinner where I met my boyfriend- it was coordinated by a girl I knew from high school but had fallen out of touch with- and she invited me but told me it would be mostly her college friends. I almost skipped since I figured I’d just be on the outside of everything.

      I am an awkward person so these sort of events allowed me to be myself much more than the traditional first date setting!

    • I met my husband in school, but the vast majority of my married friends did not. All now mid 30s and married, they met:

      – mutual friend’s gathering (met at 29, married at 32)
      – bar, he was a roommate of a college or grad school friend of hers that came to a random birthday party (met at 24, married at 28)
      – woman was the au pair for his older brother’s family (this was somehow NOT sketchy…) (met at 22, married at 27)
      – met at work (met at 23, dated at 24, married at 27)
      – met at work but worked at different places (I think they met at an organization affiliated with work?)- met late 20s, married at 33
      – met after first marriage ended in shambles; he was one of her roommates when she had to move out of her home. Met at 29, started dating at 33, married at 35.
      – sister met husband at work
      – brother met fiancé through work (friend of a work friend)

  13. What do I do? :

    Today, my direct boss told me that the reason a decorative item in my office fell down was “because a woman installed it.” I work in a male dominated industry, in a 600 employee company with literally no women in upper management. I’m middle management, and one of very few women at that level. As a result, I’ve heard a lot of amazingly inappropriate what Trump would call “locker room talk” but that at least borders on harassment, and while I usually pointedly ignore it, I don’t report it either, since I’ve felt like that would make me the difficult woman and limit my career. But in light of everything that has been happening, I’m not sure I can/should ignore it any longer. Or am I being too sensitive because of my feelings about the election and its implications?

    • His comment was inane. I don’t think you’re being too sensitive.

    • Meredith Grey :

      In this particular instance, I think reporting it would be an overreaction. Might be high time to start with a response like: “that’s offensive” :::look straight at him and wait for a response or let him uncomfortably walk away::: I do this when men around me in my male-dominated office “forget themselves” and “locker room talk” around me. Given office dynamics, I would think the comment would have to be much more personal, deliberate, and hostile to be worthwhile to report it to HR. Gender discrimination is a serious claim in the workplace, a file will be opened on it, and depending on the size of your office, it might not be guaranteed that your complaint would be totally anonymous.

    • Senior Attorney :

      This seems like a good chance to push back mildly and show that this kind of thing is not okay.

      “Ha ha no.”
      “Oh no you didn’t!”
      “That’s ridiculous.”
      “Please don’t say things like that.”

      I’ve posted this a lot lately but there’s research that shows pushing back helps: http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/10/21/13294956/confront-sexist-locker-room-talk-science

    • +1. It was probably a joke on his part, but one in really poor taste. It’s hard to be a woman in a male dominated industry, in a male dominated company. Hang in there. I’m in a similar circumstance and, to me, that’s one of the worst parts about HRC’s defeat. I look forward to the day when there will be no more “men’s jobs” and “women’s jobs”.

    • I don’t think reporting it is the way to go, but you could definitely address it. You have the direct “That’s not appropriate”/”That’s ridiculous” (because it is), or you could go with Miss Manners’s “I assume you didn’t mean to say that out loud…?”

      If some of the more general “locker room talk” is of the “joking” variety, my roommate recommends pretending you didn’t get the joke and asking them to explain it. A lot of men make gross jokes because they never really bothered to think through how gross they are. So if they’re put on the spot to spell it out, the embarrassment of admitting how gross they were being will sometimes put a stop to it.

      I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

    • I’d have been so very tempted to reply that I had no idea what he was talking about since it was Bob in Building Services who’d hung the artwork.

    • Don’t ignore it or report it. Just tell him it’s offensive. Be brave.

  14. shellshocked :

    I will probably post tomorrow earlier in a post so please forgive me in advance for the dupe. I’m reeling here.

    I’m a litigator of class of 2008 in biglaw, here since I was a summer. I’ve just been told that I’m not making partner and that I need to find a new job by the middle of next year. Reasons cited include my lack of a $1m book (who has that?!), my not stellar hours in the past three years (this year: 2200+, last year I had maternity leave for the official amount of time, and the year before that was 2100+; I am outbilling most of my peers except for the year I had maternity leave) and the fact that there are way too many senior associates and the firm cannot and will not make all of us partner. So I’m out.

    I managed to only tear up a few times. Gold star for me. My partner mentor looked genuinely sad as she told me and said she would help in any way she could, pushing on her vast network if I just tell her where I want to go. We’ll see.

    I’m stunned and sad, though the content of the news itself is not itself surprising, the fact that my runway is substantially shorter than I thought. I had honestly been thinking that I needed to work less because I’d actually like to see my kid and my husband again, but now that I’m faced with being forced to change, it’s a lot scarier.

    Meanwhile it’s not like my cases suddenly evaporated. I am still responsible for huge, time-critical projects, I want to make my hours and then some and I want my damn bonus. Also, because walking off those responsibilities will burn bridges I need to preserve.

    Who has been in this situation? Talk me through it. What do I do now??? How do I figure out what I want to do? I’m in a major market with lots of companies and firms.

    • Anonymous :

      I wasn’t as senior as you, but I got outplacement counseling (in DC) when I got that talk. It was helpful in terms of having someone to talk to who had seen a lot of this. It didn’t get me my next job, but no one else I knew had had this happen and having that knowledge to draw on was helpful. My network got me my next job (so I’m a BigLaw partner now, but my goal was never that — it was to go be counsel somewhere, work a bit, and have a bit more lifestyle).

    • Anonymous :

      Also not as senior as you when this happened and was given six months. I saw it coming and already had interviews at other firms lined up. But getting the official message was still devastating, and I just started working out a lot, talking to friends and loved ones a lot to vent, and immediately focused on getting my first offer. Things feel easier once you get your first offer and realize that there are other possibilities and that it’s not the end of the world. As for workload, I tapped into my network, and one of them happened to be an ex-coworker of the mentor who delivered the message. She told him that my caseload was too heavy for me to have the time to look for something else, so he took me off all of my cases. The other partners were not very happy about it, but oh well.

      Talking to an outplacement counseling was not helpful for me at all. She seemed rather evil and suggested that perhaps being a lawyer was not the right thing for me given my immigrant background. So I stopped going to that entirely after about four sessions. I also know that she was reporting everything I told her to the head of HR, so I was very careful not to tell her what my plans were at that point. It was a delicate dance, where I had to juggle going out of a sense of obligation (firm paid) while protecting myself.

      You need to do the following ASAP:

      Career wise

      – pull out your old resume and update it, circulate it to trusted advisors for their feedback.
      – call on your network for recruiters they can recommend (if you want to keep working in biglaw that is).
      – call on your network for non-biglaw but specific things you might be interested in for opportunities/recommendations.

      Sanity wise (only talking about what worked for me)
      – listen to a lot of motivational talks/rap music. Iggy Azalea’s “Work” was probably being played on loop 24/7 at my home.
      – go to the gym a lot whenever you feel down. I had trouble getting out of bed, and learned that it was probably depression.
      – sign up for an outdoors class. I signed up for a golf class that forced me to get out of bed by a certain time.

      Figuring out what you really want
      – this is the hardest part, and no one but you can do it.
      – focus on getting job offers in areas you are 50% interested in first. Once you get an offer, talk to the people who have worked there to better gauge your interest. After that, it’s a matter of gut instinct as to what is the right opportunity.

      Looking back, it was a great learning experience even though it felt like hell at the time. It taught me to take nothing for granted and to always be on the lookout for the next opportunity. In hindsight, the firm was a horrible fit, and it was the universe’s way of making me do what I should have done sooner anyway. At the time, this lesson did not feel that great. It also made me try new things that I didn’t think were possible, and has really opened up a lot of doors as a result.

    • anon associate :

      I got a similar speech from my mid/biglaw firm. It just sucks. But don’t despair! I made it out in 6 months. I worked with a headhunter that I’ve known for a while. That’s the most time efficient way to do it (for firms, anyways). Mine is great because she’s very immersed in the local market- she’s not with a large recruiting firm. She has a lot of connections at smaller firms that love ex-biglaw people. If you can, find someone like that rather than some rando at some large firm.

      That, and network. Set a time each week to search for in house jobs, and a time to review USA jobs (if you’re interested in government).

      Good luck to you.

    • I’m so sorry this happened to you. What is your area of law? We are hiring in-house counsel at partner level…

    • Also, it’s okay to be angry. I was off-ramped as a mid-level in a very similar way, and I’m still mad.

      Music helps like nothing else. If you are a Spotify user, I will literally send you the playlist that got me through. Line up a crew of friends to give you real-time emotional support during the workday.

      Indeed’s daily in-house counsel jobs are how I found my role. I honestly never expected I could have such a normal, humane work life as a lawyer, at least not doing such interesting and engaging work.

      Seek out spiritual resources. Spend time thinking about the structural issues that created this situation. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. Tell yourself that a lot. Get your work done, but stop going above and beyond. Quit drinking the kool-aid.

      Accept so many big hugs from an internet stranger. The song “Little Miss” by Sugarland was my anthem during this time (not usually a huge country fan). Now doing the corniest thing ever and pasting the lyrics in.

      Little Miss down on love,
      Little Miss I give up,
      Little Miss I’ll get tough, don’t you worry ’bout me anymore

      Little Miss checkered dress,
      Little Miss one big mess,
      Little Miss I’ll take less when I always give so much more

      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      Yeah, sometimes ya gotta lose ’til ya win,
      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      It’ll be alright again, it’ll be alright again

      I’m okay, it’ll be alright again,

      Little Miss do your best,
      Little Miss never rest,
      Little Miss, be my guest, I’ll make more anytime it runs out

      Little Miss you’ll go far,
      Little Miss hide your scars,
      Little Miss who you are is so much more than you like to talk about

      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      Yeah, sometimes ya gotta lose ’til ya win,
      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      It’ll be alright again, it’ll be alright again,

      Little Miss brand new start,
      Little Miss do your part,
      Little Miss big ole heart beats wide open, she’s ready now for love

      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      Yeah, sometimes ya gotta lose ’til ya win,
      It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,
      It’ll be alright again

    • Do what you need to do to get your bonus (because you may need the money), but forget keeping your hours up. You need to focus on you and what comes next for you now – and it’s absolutely and 100% okay to tell your partner mentor that given this news, you are ramping back your billables in order to focus on a job search, and to ask how they’d like to proceed with transitioning your matters.

    • Jitterbug :

      I’m there now, and I was there a few years ago as well. It’s frustrating, you find out your employer doesn’t value you as much as you thought and now you have to deal with employers ignoring you, ghosting you, baiting and switching, etc. but you will get through it, you will find something, and it’ll be an even better position than what you have now!

  15. Anonymous :

    Reposting from the morning thread as it got stuck in moderation . . .

    Oil & gas industry ‘rettes – I have moved into this space recently and am looking to educate myself on the industry generally (specifically oil field/rigs/platforms), learn industry terms and norms, any specific legal concerns (I am sure there is no shortage). I have some internal materials on post-BP best practices, but I am looking for a more comprehensive resource. I am a contract administrator/manager if that helps. Unfortunately, I don’t have a training budget at the moment, so am looking for free resources!

    TIA!

    • Anonymous :

      Hey! I am in O&G but on the banking / corp dev side. In terms of general resources, check out the following news outlets:

      www.rigzone.com
      www.fuelfix.com
      Bloomberg Energy
      RBN Energy (also sign up for his daily post – it is free and he covers a different issue / theme every day)
      Platts

      Those are the best I have found. From a legal perspective I have gotten some good restructuring related stuff from Haynes & Boone as well as V&E sends out an email distribution that you could probably get yourself on. Rigzone / Fuelfix will be the most OFS focused.

      Additionally some broker research covers the stuff you might be interested. From an OFS perspective if you can get a friend (I am about to start a new job so my factset access is cut off right now but can certainly help you out) to pull some of the following analyst reports for you:

      Angie Sedita (UBS)
      James West (Evercore)
      Kurt Hallead (RBC) – especially his quarterly US land rig update
      Waqar Syed (GS)
      James Wicklund (CS)
      J. David Anderson (Barclays)
      Ian Macpherson (Piper Jaffray)
      Ole Slorer (MS)

      Happy to connect directly if thats helpful!

    • I know you said free, but “Oil & Gas Production in Nontechnical Language” is a very helpful resource (on Amazon for around $45) for learning industry terms and how things work.

      Search for Spectra Energy’s Glossary of Energy Terms. That is a free resource and you probably won’t want to sit and read through it, but it helps when it feels like everyone else is talking in a different language.

      Also, youtube is your friend. Chevron, Exxon, & probably BP (among others) all have Youtube channels where they post educational videos about their facilities and how things work. If you’re looking for how a specific aspect of the industry works, search on there and you will probably find a helpful video (though you may want to read the book to help you figure out what to be searching for).

    • Anonymous :

      This might be slightly tangential, but if you are interested in federal and state energy policy goings-on, or if you work with customers in the electricity industry, I recommend Utility Dive.

    • Thank you all so much!!

  16. Canada Goose parkas :

    Are they worth the price tag?

    • Anonymous :

      I have a Goose and I love it to death, but there are comparable parkas for less money. It also depends a lot on the weather where you live. I’m in an extremely cold city in Canada. Our winters last 5 months. I spend a lot of time waiting for the bus and commuting. A very warm and high quality coat is 100% worth it to me.

      I do love that my Goose has a nice shape, it doesn’t look like a typical “puffy coat” (hate the marshmallow man look), and it goes past my knees so most of my body stays warm. I think the best feature is actually the hood. It’s deep enough to cover your face and the real fur trim does an amazing job protecting you from snow.

      • Canada Goose parkas :

        I live in New England and am in Canada monthly for work (major cities).

        • Anonymous :

          What major cities? A Goose would be major overkill anywhere on the West Coast.

          • Canada Goose parkas :

            Toronto and Montreal. Vancouver is rare (like 1 out of every 10-15 trips)

        • Anonymous :

          Eh – I think you need to be further north of the US border before it’s not overkill. Lands End/Eddie Bauer/LL Bean will serve you just fine for a lot less money.

        • Anonymous :

          I like the TNA parkas from Aritzia.

          • Anonymous :

            Those are definitely 20 year old college student parkas where I’m from.

    • It depends on how cold it is. I went to school in northern Indiana with lots of lake-effect snow, and Canada Goose parkas were definitely overkill. They looked either like a status item or like an “I’m from far away and didn’t know what coat to buy” item.

    • i LOVE my goose. When they first became trendy I thought, “I like them, but I will never spend that much money.”

      Then I got one for my birthday from my boyfriend.

      And I was WARM all winter for the first time ever. Warm, cozy, and looked good.

      Now, if anything ever happened to my goose I would buy another in a second. I’m actually thinking of buying a bomber since I have the traditional long one.

      Being warm and comfortable all winter made such a difference in my quality of life.

      • PS I was in Toronto. But I walk a lot in the winter and I love the feeling of not being restricted to the indoors because of the cold!

    • Anonymous :

      If you’re considering other brands, I have a Patagonia coat (long, full on winter coat) and I absolutely love it. I’m in a large Northeastern city that gets cold and the coat is amazing.

    • So ostentatious. With the silly patch. Embarrassing . . . or should be.

  17. I work in state government and between the election last week and things happening at the state level this week, I’m just so demoralized. It doesn’t help that next week is Thanksgiving and I’ll have to listen to my brother’s endless rants about lazy, entitled government workers when he is an upstanding TAXPAYER with a REAL job (because I apparently do not have a real job or pay taxes). And I have a history of anxiety/depression which is so not helping right now. I’m meeting friends tonight which should help, but they’re in the same boat now since they and/or their SOs also work for the state as well. And I’m afraid I’ll just get more anxious. I’ve always been able to pull it together and do a good job for those taxpayers before, but I just can’t seem to right now. All I want is to sit on the couch in yoga pants, eat macaroni and cheese, and read trashy novels for the next umpteen months. But that doesn’t seem like the healthiest way to deal with things. I’m not even sure what I’m looking for here. A kick in the pants? Commiseration? A chance to vent? Maybe all three?

    • Meredith Grey :

      Just putting this out there in case you’ve just written it off without fully considering it, do you want to just skip your Thanksgiving and use that time off to cope the way you want to? Sounds like it’s going to be no fun and it’s precious time off. You do you and give thanks how you want… If it’s yoga pants and mac, get it!

      • Was going to say this. Get “sick” or maybe “food poisoning, please don’t come over” and spend Tgiving day at your own place with your yoga pants and mac and cheese. You need a mental health day (or long weekend). Spend a day lounging. Spend a day doing something just for yourself. And then spend a day making your plans for the next few months – if work does X, I do Y. If anxiety does A, I do B – etc.

      • As tempting as skipping it all is, it’s also my nephew-godson’s birthday. And I really can’t and don’t want to miss that. My Mom tries her best to shut it down, but he tends to get “hurt feelings” when he’s called on it, and then my Mom gets upset. So I mostly will just have to suck it up. And give Mr. gov anon a stern don’t engage lecture since he and my brother are on the opposite side of the political spectrum and my brother gets worse if someone is “debating” with him. And now that I’ve typed all that out I’m wondering if Shots is free on Thanksgiving day. Might help to have her around.

        • And yet people like that are the ones who complain that “libtards” and women are too emotional and PC . . .

        • Shots. Shots. Shots. :

          I am so excited to join you on this festive occasion! I love getting you drunk enough to say “stop being rude to me” and “mind your manners” and “I’m pretty sure your mama didn’t teach you to talk like that.” Might I suggest Wild Turkey, in honor of the holiday?

    • Anonymous :

      Wearing yoga pants, eating mac and cheese, and reading trashy novels is how I spend my time when I’m NOT depressed.

      • cake batter :

        Swap trashy novels for pinterest and House Hunters, and that’s basically my life post-5pm.

  18. Jitterbug :

    Guhh, phone interview did not go well. I was way too nervous for this one, stuttered a lot. It was bad.

    I’m usually okay in interviews, when they feel like conversations. When someone is clearly just reading questions off a list, and writing down your answers only saying “hmmm . . . okaaaay . . .” it’s awful.

    Luckily I have a couple job leads. Or I did have some job leads? One of the worst part of job hunting is having recruiters and hiring managers go dark on me for days, and I never know if I’m being ghosted or if the decision is just taking longer than expected.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      In my experience, almost all phone interviews with a set of questions where the interviewer just writes down responses always feels awkward. Hopefully you get to the in person interview where you can have a real conversation and shine.

      Job searching is awful. Fingers crossed for you!

      • Jitterbug :

        Thanks! I don’t think I’ll get to that point with this job, but I’ve connected well with other people in my search. It just drives me nuts when someone goes from “you seem great, I wanna talk with you more about working here!” to complete radio silence. It would be awesome to see some progress on one of these leads before Thanksgiving.

    • Everything I’ve been reading about hiring (full disclosure: mostly Ask A Manager) points to hiring taking longer than you expect. Fingers crossed!

      • Jitterbug :

        Yep, I read AAM as well, and I actually work on talent acquisition so I have an idea of why things take longer, but I still believe a quick “hey something came up, I should haven an update by Monday” makes a world of difference to someone trying to get a new job.

    • Anonymous :

      No advice, just sympathy. I’ve been job hunting since July and have had the same experience with leads disappearing or taking longer than expected with no explanation. I totally understand why it happens but it is so frustrating!

  19. New to DC -- recs? :

    Anyone have a favorite dentist (bonus point if s/he is near McPherson Square and takes Delta Dental)? How about a mechanic for an older Mercedes? TIA!

  20. shot in the dark :

    Does anyone know of any legal services groups that offers advice for women entrepreneurs?

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