Networking

Networking with Older Women

by Kat on 06/28/2011 · 132 comments

in Business Etiquette, Looking Young, Networking

Midori Sour, originally uploaded to Flickr by Nicole Lee.Reader R has a question that goes pretty well with our discussion of networking with older men — how to network with older women. Here’s the question:

I’m a 24 year old summer clerk with a public defender’s office. I got the gig by networking through my friends; specifically, by getting to know their mothers and fathers who work in the legal field. Now, however, I’ve gotten to become friends with my friends’ parents and their colleagues, who are in their 40′s and 50′s. Do you have tips on navigating the waters of friendship with women who are quite literally old enough to be my mother? I’m frequently invited to lunches and happy hours with them and I always accept the offers and enjoy my time, but I’m curious as to what tone I should be striking. They always address me and treat me as a colleague, and I’m frequently told I act like I’m 30 (in a good way), but I want to keep fostering these friendships in an appropriate way.

It sounds to me like you’re doing a great job and don’t really need any advice! For my $.02, here are some thoughts:

  • It’s probably a good idea to be clear with yourself about what your goal is — it’s to learn from these women, not to enjoy the mozzarella sticks at the bar. Your goal is to get on their radar as someone who they would recommend for a new hire, and possibly even consider you as a mentee.
  • To that end: during this summer, try to listen more than you speak. The concerns these women face now will probably be struggles you’ll face in your own career at some point. Listen to the advice, and ask questions where you can.
  • It’s fine to talk about yourself if you’re asked, but within limits. Don’t overstep by talking too much about yourself — not everyone at the gathering will be thrilled to hear the latest drama that occurred between your boyfriend, roommate, or mother, or your 5-minute take on the new restaurant or movie.
  • Watch your table manners when you’re out, and don’t drink to excess.  (And this is a minor note, primarily because I couldn’t think of anything else to use to illustrate the post, but it probably isn’t the best idea to order “young” drinks like Midori Sours if you’re out with older friends — if you can order what they’re having.  Pictured: Midori Sour, originally uploaded to Flickr by Nicole Lee.)
  • Start building your contact files. This sounds a little creepy, but stick with me because I got this tip from some movie (which escapes me now), but if it’s from a movie it must be the proper way of business, right? In any event, what I’ve done — primarily with older people — was to keep written notes on our conversations. If they told me how they had gotten to where they were (a fairly typical question I’ve asked), I would briefly note the progression so I didn’t have to ask again the next time I met with him or her. It might look like this in my notes, which I would usually keep with their contact information:

from SmallTown, OH –> [Ivy League schools]–> worked as a ____ at [large nonprofit]–> [firm] –> inhouse for [large nonprofit]–> inhouse for [giant company]–> current position at [small nonprofit]

I’d also keep track of their partner’s name, as well as any children that they mentioned and a few facts about them (“just bought house upstate; recently into spelunking”).

  • When you leave the internship, try to stay on their radar. With the example contact above, if I saw an interesting article that I didn’t think she’d have come across on spelunking, or something on one of the entities she had worked for, I would send it her way. Aim for one or two lunches or breakfasts a year to stay on their radar, as well — review your notes on them, see if there’s anything you want to ask them about that will further benefit your career (“So when you went from [firm] to [large nonprofit], how did that happen exactly? Who did you use for your references? Was it awkward to leave [firm]?”) as well as remembering the course of conversation (“so are you and X still spelunking upstate?”). Maybe I’m alone in that I have to keep track of things like this, but for friends you don’t see often it helps to have notes. Like I said, when I was younger this was primarily with older people who I only saw once or twice a year in a mentee capacity — now I keep notes on friends I haven’t seen in a long time, keeping track of what their partner’s name is; if they’re married, what date they were married; what their kid’s name is; when the kid was born, etc. (All of this was made easier by my Palm Pilot — I’m just recently upgrading to an Android phone, which is requiring some new contacts systems, but I’m sure I’ll get it sorted eventually.)

And I should probably note — to me this is just what a healthy networking relationship looks like (as opposed to one where you’re worried there’s some sex-related ulterior motive); there’s nothing specific here for older women.

Readers, what’s your advice for networking?  Would you give Reader R any additional advice, or different advice?

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Networking with Older Men

by Kat on 06/20/2011 · 156 comments

in Business Etiquette, Career, Networking, Professionalism, Transitions, Travel

Can a younger woman network with older men without getting into questionable situations? My friend J told me of her interesting dilemma over the weekend…

She’s traveling a lot for business these days, and on one of her latest trips she sat next to an older businessman. She’s generally against talking to her seatmates, but wanted to have a bit of chitchat before she made him move to let her go to the bathroom — and she discovered that he’s the Chairman of the Board of a huge non-profit foundation (like, huge). They exchanged business cards when they got off the plane. Great contact to have, right?

Later that night, the text messages started. They were friendly at first (to which she replied warily), then turned slightly suspicious (to which she increased her delay before responding, then finally stopped responding all together). They’re no longer in the same town, but the question that’s left is: can she still network with this contact, or should he and his possibly less-than-pure motives be left in the dust? Call me an opportunist, but I’d hate to throw away a potential networking contact like that just because the guy was a bit skeevy. We’ve talked about how to handle it when a potential client hits on you, as well as how to network when you’re the low man on the totem pole, but not necessarily when a potential mentor/networking contact hits on you.

I’ve been in the situation myself, although in my case I think my defenses went up too soon — I vividly remember being asked “So what do you want?” when I took an older gentleman to lunch when I was around 23 (he practiced in a specialty I wanted to get into). Nothing but advice, I answered honestly, but I somehow still felt a bit dirty. I made sure that the next time I asked an older gentleman out to lunch (this time an adjunct professor whose specialty I was dying to get into), that I had a male classmate there with me at the lunch.

In my friend’s situation, though — this VIP could open a number of interesting doors to her. He’s a successful businessman with lots of contacts, and through his work with this big foundation he has even more contacts. His advice would undoubtedly be invaluable, and a very successful older friend is never a bad thing to have — you never know who will hear about the next big career opportunity. But how can she manage the relationship so it’s clear that she’s not interested in funny business?

For my $.02:

- I think the relationship needs to be managed the right way from the start. One of my female mentors (who came up when there were few women in senior positions) noted that she generally encouraged a “father/daughter” relationship.

- Know a bit about flirting so that you DON’T do it — simple things like

  • shake hands with him (businesslike — firm handshake, ladies!) as soon as you exchange names
  • do not touch his arm or encourage physical closeness of any sort (for example: don’t show him your phone or magazine in a way that might make you two huddle together)
  • watch your eye contact — I’ve heard that “business” eye contact is between the eyes and nosebridge; “friend” eye contact is between the eyes, nose, and mouth, whereas “dating” eye contact involves, um, lower eye contact. Also, watch the duration of your eye contact.
  • perhaps put something between you and him — casually put your purse on your lap, or even an in-flight magazine.
  • don’t seem too interested in his personal life

- As a “rainmaking litigation partner at a Biglaw firm” noted in comments a while back, “There is typically an inverse corrolation [sic] between the female summer associates that I want to date and the ones I want to hire. The qualities in the ones I want to hire are: hard-working, thorough, intuitive, and detail-oriented. The qualities in the ones I want to date are: flirtatious, spontaneous, and fun. Know which category you want to find yourself in and act accordingly.”

- Shut him down quickly if it goes there. “I’m flattered by the attention, but not interested like that.” This is better done sooner rather than later.

- Realistically assess when to abort if the attentions continue. What do you really want from this guy, and how many awkward conversations are you willing to endure to get there? In my friend J’s case, I might suggest first studying the VIP’s resume (which should be publicly available, at least on the foundation’s website), and sending an email — from whatever email address is on her resume — to say it was nice to meet him, and then asking direct questions toward things she’d like to know from his background. E.g.: “After perusing your profile on the ___ website, I noticed that you had moved from <Field X> to <Field Y> — I’m interested in making a similar switch myself, and would greatly appreciate any advice you have on that point. Did you join any organizations, or find any reading materials to be particularly helpful?” And if his response is still a bit questionable — well, move on.

Readers, what are your thoughts? What would you do in this situation — would you try to salvage the contact or move on? What is your best advice for how to network with older men?

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Staying in the Game: Tips for Stay at Home Moms

by Kat on 04/14/2011 · 117 comments

in Business Etiquette, Career, Motherhood, Networking, Organization, Pregnancy, Professionalism, Transitions

Open Doors, originally uploaded to Flickr by *Fede*Reader R writes with a question about how women who choose to stay home with their kids for a while can keep career paths open to them…

I’m hoping you and the lovely Corporette commenters will be able to offer some guidance. (as surely I’m not the only one who has faced or will face this dilemma).

I’m an ’08 law grad and spent two years in biglaw before accepting a government position last fall. Now I am pregnant and due this fall. I’d originally moved to government thinking it would be more amenable to family life, but have since decided I’d like to stay home full time, at least for a little while. If we end up having more than one child, I suppose it could end up being as long as 3 – 4 years.

So, my question is, knowing I’d like to return to the legal field one day, what can I do during my career hiatus to ensure that I am still marketable/relevant when I return to work and to help make that transition back easier? I’ve already made up my mind to stay home, so I am not really interested in a suggestion that I continue working. However, advice on how long is “too long” to be out of work would also be appreciated.

Congratulations on your pregnancy! I think you’re really smart to be thinking about this now — and not, say, in four years when you’re looking to get back in the workforce. I have no experience with this personally, so I’m really curious to hear what the readers say.  (Pictured: Open Doors, originally uploaded to Flickr by *Fede*.)

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How To Use LinkedIn

by Kat on 03/21/2011 · 56 comments

in Business Etiquette, Career, Networking, Professionalism, Tech, Transitions

Connections, originally uploaded to Flickr by carlaarenaWhat is the proper way to use LinkedIn if you’re a junior employee? Has it changed through the past few years?

This came up recently when I linked to a 2008 Corporette post about how to leave an internship — there, I advised interns:

It’s fine to use Facebook or MySpace to connect with the other students you summered with. If you want to, it’s not inappropriate to use LinkedIn to connect, either. However, do not request to become “LinkedIn” with superiors at the company, unless you’d also ask them to recommend you to a future employer — it’s more serious than a casual link, and no one has really had time to assess the other person’s work. Requesting to become linked to an mid-level or senior person you had lunch once or twice with, or wrote a memo for, is really not acceptable.

Do I still agree with this advice? Yes and no. I will say that how I use LinkedIn has changed over the years. In 2008, I remember approving a request from a casual friend I’d known in college. We were never close, I’d never worked with her on a school project, and I hadn’t seen her or talked to her in nearly 10 years. What, I worried, did our connection mean? If she had turned into a poor worker, would that reflect on me? And so from that point on I chose not to approve anyone unless I could vouch for their work.  (Pictured:  Connections, originally uploaded to Flickr by carlaarena.)

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Career Transitions (aka Ch-ch-ch-changes)…

by Kat on 02/17/2011 · 68 comments

in Admin, Business Etiquette, Career, Kat, Networking, Success

Change, originally uploaded to Flickr by busy.pochiReader D suggests a thread about changing jobs and types of jobs…

I recently transitioned from a biglaw firm job into an in-house position, and have gotten loads of questions from people wondering how I did it. In my case, it was actually quite random and serendipitious, but I thought it might be cool to encourage readers to share their stories on how they made the transition from one type of work to another. From what little I know of you, it sounds like you made a career transition, and likely have tips/insights to share with readers.

Great topic.  I think that, while the on-campus recruiting at law schools and MBA schools is amazing (and let’s be honest, one of the main things you pay for when you get a higher degree), I think that so many people end up in Big Companies because of that recruiting — and then have little to no idea how to make that next step.  Better opportunities, better lifestyles, and better careers can be had if you make career transitions, though.  (Pictured:  Change, originally uploaded to Flickr by busy.pochi.)

I’ve made a few transitions, I guess, and I have to agree with reader D – serendipity plays a big part! But I do like to think of the old quote that “Chance favors the prepared mind” — you can only take advantage of those opportunities if you’re ready to for them.

  • Networking helps… for example, when I was transitioning from journalism to media law, I cold-called the only two media lawyers I knew: the general counsel of Gruner + Jahr USA, the company where I was working at the time, and a former colleague’s uncle who worked at People (a fact my former colleague mentioned once in conversation).  I asked both for 15-20 minutes of their time as I was headed off to law school, offering to come to their office — and both took me out for long lunches where they told me their tips on law school, shared their paths to success, offered advice for what they would do if they were beginning again — and both asked me to keep in touch (which I did).  I wound up getting my 1L internship through Nick (the uncle), who recommended a non-profit that *everyone* knew in the media law bar.  (It was then called Libel Defense Resource Center, but is now called Media Law Resource Center, and is my current employer.)  After spending the summer there, I had met lots of other media lawyers (many of them senior folks at major media companies) — and had heard a particular firm’s name come up many times, which was where I worked for 6 years after law school.
  • …but timing is key also. After I started at my firm, I had an “in house or bust” mentality.  If I had been more attuned to the news in the media world, though, I’d have realized that media companies were HURTING, both because of the economy and this new-fangled Internet thing.  There weren’t very many jobs that were being created at major media companies, and the people who had those jobs were so happy in them that they were clinging on for dear life.  If I’d been smarter, I would have assessed the environment and realized I should have gone to a smaller firm and kept the dream of “in house” for a later day.  Luckily, I landed at an amazing non-profit job — writing about media law matters and working with some of the top lawyers in the space, particularly on the digital side.
  • Guts are needed. It takes big, big guts to leave a “known thing” (no matter how bad it is!) and head to an unknown, new thing, particularly if your lifestyle may be very different either because of hours (more or less), or money, or commute.  It’s one thing to pursue the job, but another to actually take it.

I’m actually in the midst of a transition right now – in December, I gave notice at my law job.  Corporette had been growing for a while, and it’s gone from requiring 2-3 daily hours of writing to more like 5-6 hours of writing, networking, e-mailing — and that’s just to maintain the site at its current level, not even to think about other projects (like the book I want to write!).  I struggled for a long time with this question:  was it time to jump, and leave behind the career that I’d been pursuing for 10+ years, and leave a job that was perfect for me?  I hemmed and hawed for a long time, but ultimately decided that I wanted to pursue Corporette.  So, in about a week, I’ll have my last full-time day at my job (and I’ll be part-time through the MLRC/Stanford conference on May 19-20).  Honestly, I couldn’t have done it without, as mentioned above,

  • networking — every time I meet full-time bloggers I’m blown away by how savvy, smart, and entrepreneurial they are.  The ladies I know through Style Coalition, as well as the other bloggers I know, never cease to inspire me.
  • timing — I probably jumped too late, to be honest!  I’ve been maintaining almost two jobs for far too long!  (I’m looking forward to reintroducing myself to this thing called “exercise.”)
  • guts — wooooo were guts needed.  First Amendment lawyer to fashion blogger?  A lot of the people I know through my legal career have been incredibly supportive, though (as well as my amazing husband!), and it helped me summon the courage.

Ok — enough about me.  Readers, what are your best tips for transitioning jobs?  Those of you who have landed at cushy jobs, tell us how you got them!!  Those of you who made leaps and regretted them, we want to hear from you too — what lessons can you pass on?

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How to Network When You’re on the Bottom of the Ladder

by Kat on 07/08/2010 · 80 comments

in Business Etiquette, Career, Networking, Professionalism, Success

Today, reader A requests some advice on how to network…

I would really really appreciate if you guys did a post about how younger people can network and meet more experienced people in their field without stepping on any toes! I’m a intern at an NGO in DC and they have been great about bringing me to meetings, having me attend Congressional hearings, giving me things to do that are important and really useful experiences. Because of all of their help I am meeting a lot of people in my field, in fact the top people in their own fields. I really want to be able to network this summer while I’m here, not in the ‘give me a job’ networking, but rather picking their brains about where the best graduate programs are (I’m still undergrad) and how to go about getting into the field. If they offer a job so be it, but I don’t feel I have earned any handouts. My problem is, I don’t want to annoy or bother these people. I don’t want to give the impression that I want them to tell me all their hard-earned knowledge so I can breeze by. How would you want to be approached by a younger female intern who just wants to know anything you tell her? More importantly what would really peeve you? Any advice would be great!

Fabulous question, and reader A is a smart cookie for thinking about networking  now, while she’s clearly getting some fantastic opportunities (and doesn’t need anything from the networking other than advice, which everyone is happy to give). One of the things I always think about with regard to networking is Bob Woodward and Deep Throat. If you’re not familiar with the story,two Washington Post reporters had a source who they used to break the Nixon/Watergate scandal. The source — who they called “Deep Throat” — was anonymous and unknown for years and years.  In fact, people wondered if he existed at all, if he was a composite of multiple sources, etc, etc.  In 2005, Bob Woodward revealed who Deep Throat was — an FBI man named Mark Felt.  (Pictured above: A G-Man’s Life: The FBI, Being Deep Throat, and the Struggle for Honor in Washington, available at Amazon.) I was interested in the story (and the reveal) for a number of reasons, but personally one of the things I found most striking about Bob Woodward’s “reveal” in the Washington Post was his description of how he met Felt, just as he was finishing up his post-college tour in the Navy, and turned Felt into a member of his network.  It’s a must-read, but some choice quotes for you…

This was a time in my life of considerable anxiety, even consternation, about my future. . . . During that year in Washington, I expended a great deal of energy trying to find things or people who were interesting. . . . When I mentioned the graduate work to Felt, he perked up immediately . . . . So we had two connections — graduate work at GW and work with elected representatives from our home states.

Felt and I were like two passengers sitting next to each other on a long airline flight with nowhere to go and nothing really to do but resign ourselves to the dead time. He showed no interest in striking up a long conversation, but I was intent on it. . . . As I think back on this accidental but crucial encounter — one of the most important in my life — I see that my patter probably verged on the adolescent. Since he wasn’t saying much about himself, I turned it into a career-counseling session.

All of this is a fairly long-winded way of saying: a) networking is done by everyone — especially, perhaps, the people who become the greats, b) networking is always awkward and takes some work, and c) men struggle with this too — this is not something unique to women.  That said, here are a few “How to Network” observations I’ve made over my years trying to network:
- A connection helps you get on a VIP’s calendar. Woodward talks about his two connections — an alumni one and a shared experience — but it can be a person, an entity (a former employer), a place (he’s your next door neighbor), anything.  A friend in common counts buckets towards getting on someone’s calendar, even if you barely know the shared connection. One of the things I’ve always done is, upon having lunch or breakfast with someone Important For Networking, I’ve asked who else I should talk to — and when they rattle of their list of 4 or 5 of their closest friends, I ask, “If I contact them, may I tell them you suggested I speak with them?” and the answer is almost always yes. (In the age of Linked In and Facebook, I would still recommend asking your friends directly before trying to jump over them to connect with someone.) I’ve also found that it’s better to ask for a meeting over “breakfast or lunch” because frequently, for busy people, breakfast is the only time that isn’t 100% scheduled. Breakfast is great for other reasons, too — it shows you’re a go-getter (early bird gets the worm!), it allows you to choose some non-posh place for lunch (I’m not just trying to get a free lunch out of this!), and it allows you to graciously  offer to take the check.  Most VIPs will not let an intern pay for them, but I’ve always felt it important to offer (and to be sincere about the offer).

- If it’s someone really important — say, the CEO of the company where you’re interning, or a senator — try to make it worth their time by setting up a group lunch. If it’s an alumni connection, bring a few other alumni to lunch with you. Note to the competitive overachievers among us: if you go this route, make sure that a) you’re the only one the VIP ever deals with directly, and b) perhaps even go so far as to make sure that you’re the most impressive person / most inquisitive person / best prepared person at lunch.  (If you feel awkward asking an older man out to breakfast or lunch and worry about sexual overtones, bring along a male colleague or two.)

- When you get the time with them: Ask them about themselves! Everyone loves to talk about themselves. A little prep work helps in knowing what questions to ask, but in general let them tell their war stories and tout their achievements.  When they get into decisions they made — where they went for grad school, or which job they took when they graduated — ask them follow-up questions that are useful to you, such as where they would go if they were choosing now, or how that job led to other opportunities. The conversation should probably be 90% about them, and 10% direct questions about you. Note that this is not an exercise in placating someone else’s narcissism, but about truly learning one person’s path to success. Your path will be different — everyone’s is — but it’s helpful to see the steps that someone else took and the choices they made.  If you can in the conversation, fit in an accomplishment or two of your own, but these should be brief quips, not minutes-long stories.

- After the meeting, write down everything they said. I save them as notes on my Palm Pilot’s calendar (yes, I know, I am ancient) or contact card for that person, but you should do whatever works for you. I tend to memorialize the following kinds of information:
- their path to success (even if it’s just a diagram showing [undergrad college] –> [grad school because X] –> [first job because Y] (and so on)
- personal things they told you — if they told a long story about their son’s acceptance to college, you don’t want to look blankfaced at the next meeting when they mention a son. (In fact, it’s better to follow up and ask how he’s doing when you next see them.)
- topics and things that person is interested in.

- Send a thank you note — and be specific about a story you were fascinated by, or advice you particularly appreciate.  If you can, reinforce one or two choice things about yourself — I always imagine that the VIP is terribly busy and can barely remember what they HAD for lunch, let alone who they met, so I would say things like “As I apply to grad school in ___ in the fall, I’ll be thinking of your advice,” or if there was some non-smarmy opportunity to do it, I’d reference my own accomplishments.  (Finding a non-smarmy way is the key, though.)

Getting the first meeting is the easy part of networking, though – it’s the second meeting (and the third, and… ) that is where the real art comes.  My technique has always been to send newspaper articles on a shared topic of interest.  It’s best if it’s’ something off the beaten path that the VIP probably would not have seen — you’re really providing them a service then, as well as showing that you’re engaged on this topic deeply.  Don’t worry if they don’t write back.  Maintain the relationship in this casual “Saw this and thought of you” manner until you are in need of different advice — next step advice — and then try to get on their calendar again for lunch.

Some final advice: networking is about making friends.  Friends help friends.  Genuinely be interested in their story, and in remembering their personal issues.

Anyway, that’s my $.02 on networking — readers, share your own networking thoughts and advice!

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