Weekend Open Thread

Frye Carmen Harness TallSomething on your mind? Chat about it here.

I had a conversation a year or so ago with a friend that I think about often. I — as a fan of the bootcut pant — was bemoaning the continued existence of skinny jeans and leggings, and wondering whether they would finally go the way of the dodo. My friend looked at me and said, “Kat, come on. We’ve all spent way too much on boots — the skinny jean is never going away.” See? Very profound. So if you’re looking for a bit of a splurge for a great boot to wear on the weekend, check out these Frye Carmen Harness — they’re a classic for their comfort, durability, and great look. They’re $378 at Zappos. Frye – Carmen Harness Tall (Black Waxed Suede) – Footwear


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  1. Okay, but, I mean.

    BOOT cut.

    They’re called that because, like, boots. Actual ones.

  2. K...in transition :

    Fill in the blank time, this time it’ll be a double since it’s the weekend. I figure, let’s give some props to each other…

    Dear C Girlie (or however you want to address this to the general or a specific reader),
    I want you to know that you are __________________. I appreciate you because ____________.

    (to everyone)
    Dear C Girlie,
    I want you to know that you are amazing. I appreciate you because you work really hard, you make time for your loved ones, and you give great fashion advice for those of us who live in sweats when no one’s looking.

    (to a specific someone)
    Dear Blonde Lawyer,
    I want you to know that you’re a rockstar. I apperciate you because you’ve always been super supportive when I’ve needed a boost and I’m lucky to have you in my life :)

    • karenpadi :

      Dear Divalicious (sp?),

      I want you to know that you are super sharp. I appreciate you because you give solid advice and take no bull.

      • Divaliscious11 :

        This just made my up until this point craptastic day, better. Thanks!!!

        • Yes, Divalicious11, you’re the only “online girlfriend” I have. You serve up “real-talk,” explaining the world the way it is, even though that’s not the way it SHOULD be ;-)

    • lawsuited :

      Dear Herbie,
      I want you to know that every time I see your tag I imagine an anthropomorpic VW beetle using its front tires to type. I appreciate you because you are hilarious and crack me right up.

    • Dear TCFKAG:

      First of all, where have you been lately? Are you still sick? I hope not.

      Second, I want you to know that you’re awesome. I appreciate you because you are willing to give your time to others, even complete internet strangers, you seem kind, and you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders.

      • lawsuited :

        Yeah, TCFKAG, where have you been? I really could have used your help when I was looking for pants like a madwoman – you are the best at finding the perfect black flat or bold sheath dress or whatever!

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        I just sent her an email and cyber stalked over to her tumblr. Recent post mentions that she has had a really $h!tty 24 hours. Hopefully she comes back to lots of love here!

      • Not sick. Just having a rough time right now. If you have any specific questions, feel free to submit a question on my tumblr.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Awww I’m blushing. Thanks, K. I’ve got to share the love with TCFKAG since she emails me when she reads about someone having an issue she thinks I can help with. My husband totally rolls his eyes every time I start a conversation with “my friend from (this site)” . . . but I gotta say, I love it here.

      • K...in transition :

        haha after watching some L&O episodes, I’ve realized that it’d be insane if the cops came in here since some of my most trusted confidants are on here (whose names and locations I either don’t know or aren’t near) and my fridge has cards on it from the awesome few who sent me notes when I moved to the current location.

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          Sounds like when my brother entered Israel on a travel excursion while studying abroad in Jordan. Customs “what are you doing here?” Him “visiting a friend.” Customs “where does he live?” Him “in Israel.” Customs, “yeah, where.” Him “I don’t know.” Customs “what’s his phone number.” Him “I don’t know.” Customs “how do you two communicate?” Him “I never realized until just now, but only through facebook. We met studying abroad.” Customs “you only talk to this guy via the internet and you are staying with him?” Him “yeah, when you put it that way, sounds kind of sketchy but I swear, we are friends!”

    • Francie Nolan :

      Dear C Girlies,
      Even though I hardly comment and largely lurk, I want you to know that you are a continual source of inspiration. I appreciate you because are a smart, talented, bunch of internet friends and I wish we could all have wine and cookies together.

      Dear NOLA,
      I want you to know that you are a wealth of advice and compassion. I appreciate you because your wisdom and kindness reminds me of a wonderful friend I worked with that gave me the advice that saw me through the worst time in my life and that makes me smile.

      • lawsuited :

        +1 for wine and cookies!!

      • That is so sweet! I love mentoring my younger colleagues so I guess that spills over here. I’m really overwhelmed at work right now and feel like all of you are just lifting me up. Especially zora! and now you.

    • Dear us,

      I want you to know how much I appreciate the honesty with which nearly all conversations happen on this site. I feel like no matter what, we are authentic, real, flawed women negotiating a world. This makes some of these conversations uncomfortable or raw, but I think I am much richer for it.

    • While I know you meant these to be nice, for those who aren’t posting super frequently, and are very likely to be left out, these types of threads can come off as cliquish and hurtful for those who don’t get included. I know that you are a really nice woman, and wouldn’t mean for that consequence, but there it is.

      • It also feels bad to be a regular poster and not get named in these threads. Guess I am not part of the in crowd after all.

        • AnonRightNow :

          I actually post somewhat constantly and purposefully avoid commenting on these types of threads because I inherently think they are going to leave some ladies out and, thus, are needlessly cliqueish, even if they’re not meant to be. I am sure there are others who feel likewise. I agree that K means well and even goes so far as to address one comment to the whole community, but life being what it is….

          At any rate, +1, for all you know, someone, maybe even me, really treasures your contributions here. So don’t sweat it. . . . . :-)

          • K...in transition :

            I see your point, in a sense, but many are for all of us here. Most often, those who are individually named are because they’re very vocal here, offering a lot of help and assistance to others, which makes the site feel like such a community.

            I’m so sorry that you’ve ever felt left out, you’re certainly welcome and your thoughts and stories are absolutely wanted and appreciated!

          • Totes McGotes :

            I’m with you, AnonRightNow; I actually don’t participate in these because I know I’ll accidentally leave someone out, which has the result of… leaving *everyone* out :(

            But although I haven’t been on here as much lately, Corporette and its readers have very much touched my life. Thanks for all your questions, responses, thoughts, and love!

          • Well, gee willikers, K! Thanks for letting us know that we are welcome to post and play in the sandbox! And I disagree that the named posters are the ones that make this place feel like a community. It’s a community that has been created by everyone who comes across this site and offers their perspective on a given day. I assure you that I am not waiting on the edge of my seat for a “named regular” to respond to one of my comments.

          • layered bob :

            yeah, positioning oneself as the welcoming committee only enhances the clique-y feeling – if it’s not an insular community then it doesn’t need someone to tell poor little us that we’re valued.

          • Just wanted to let you know, K, that I had to read your post a few times to figure out what the offensive bit was that the others referenced. While these threads can be clique-ish, so are many things. I think it’s just a matter of people wanting to show appreciation for a group and sometimes specific people in it who have helped them through stuff. I’ve come to this site for support, from boredom, or because I needed something to brighten my day a bit/life me a little from depression. You all, as a collective, do this for me and I’m sure others.

            I understand why some people are complaining about it. It’s part of what makes this site great – people are open (as someone mentioned above, even when it makes things uncomfortable). However, I think it is important in these situations to remember the overall group and what seems to be the individual’s motivations. It was all done with the best of intentions. Also, K, I feel that you were trying to make things less “in group” by saying that you were sorry others were left out and that they were wanted and appreciated. I read it as you trying to say that you wanted to hear from everyone and personally I appreciated it.

        • So to whomever posted above as +1, that’s my actual handle that I use on this site. Just wanted to put that out there since I like my handle. /end petty comment

        • Another regular :

          At first I was going to agree, but then I realized that the self-appointed “in” crowd on this site is not one I really want to be part of.

      • Anne Shirley :


      • additional +1 :

        I was feeling the exact same way and thinking that i love reading others opinions and posting my own, but nonetheless, not get named. Then I thought, well, I guess they are just trying to be nice to others and i shouldnt be hurt about that. I do feel better knowing that my initial reaction is shared by others. sometimes unintended consequences hurt

        • MissJackson :

          Yeah, I am a regular poster — c o r p o r e t t e is my every day “break” at work — and the last time we did this I actually felt weirdly sad and left out. I think it’s mostly my own insecurity, and I don’t want to kill the positive vibe that I honestly believe is the purpose of the threads. But anyway, there it is.

          p.s. I was going to post this under an anon name, but figured it might make more impact coming from the “real” me. I feel pretty confident that I add value to this community, and I don’t think I ought to need someone to say so in a thread like this to make it so. I assume that there are plenty of other posters just like me who are valued by the hive but for whatever reason don’t get mentioned in this thread. Last time we did a thread like this I spent some time trying to think of all the regular posters who hadn’t been named to try to give them snaps, and I realized how hard it is to think of everyone. That helped me take it less personally, but still.

          • Oh don’t feel bad! You are awesome and I love your posts and I love hearing about the ‘burgh from you. Makes me feel nostalgic for home. And weren’t you the one who also lives in an old house with a quirky stairwell that prevents you from buying furniture? Old home dwellers unite!

          • Blonde Lawyer :

            Every time I see your posts I hear the song “sorry Ms. Jackson, I am for real” in my head. I then picture the music video with the dogs nodding along and I crack up. And then I realize my head takes a lot of weird tangents throughout the day.

            Also, Homestar, so excited to read that your name came from Homestar Runner. I personally didn’t follow the site but my husband and all our guy friends did in college. They quoted it CONSTANTLY. Whenever I saw your name I would hear one of our friends saying “Homestar Runner” in whatever voice it was that was related to the site. Crazy that is where it actually is from.

          • @BlondeLawyer – me too! I really liked that song when I was in college.

      • Oh, you guise! :(

        Yeah, you’re right.

        I will say this. It takes a village. The fact that you take time out of your day to offer advice, support, sympathy, laughs, and/or internet hugs makes a difference and is important to someone. It’s pretty hard not to feel better when you post a question here and get supportive responses. There’s been some pretty heavy ish lately, and it’s been astounding (in a good way) to watch people come together to help. So thanks to everybody for that, sincerely. +10K to what EC MD said.

        And, finally, because you raised the issue of cliquishness, I can’t help myself: And on Fridays, we wear pink!

        • You can only wear your hair back one day of the week and well…I guess you picked today.

    • Dear AN and Lilly, I want you to know that you are both awesome! I appreciate you because you went beyond yourself this week to help me help someone else, and I will never forget your generosity and kindness towards strangers!

      • You’re very welcome. I was about to email you to say I found more things to send your friend so taking a day or two to make sure I don’t miss anything.

    • My dear C*p0r3ttes,

      Thank you all for making my day more interesting. You bring humanity to the internet, which can sometimes be a callous, cold place. You make me richer for all your different viewpoints, and warmer for all the concern and kind thoughts. Thanks for helping me use my brain in a different way– for something better than just making my company more money.


      • Agreed, Susan!

        My BF was telling me the other day about how he used to be pretty involved in some online message boards/blogs a few years ago. But that, in his view, they always turn to disrespect and arguing without anyone ever convincing anyone else.

        I’ve told him about this site in the past, and we tried to figure out what made it different. I think it certainly helps that it’s all women, and most of us actually have very involved lives outside of this site. (As opposed to like Star Trek geeks/people with crazy political views who live in their mom’s basement, posting on the local newspaper’s comments or whatever.)

        But I think part of what makes this a good community, too, is the fact that we actually care about each other’s feelings, and we all have invested in making this a warm place.

        So for that, thank you, sisters!

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      To Seattlelite:

      I appreciate the wisdom you provide to us youngsters. You provide great prospective from the parent’s point of view and it is incredibly helpful. You also have wonderfully thoughtful advice for anyone dealing with guilt or other issues. You are going through your own health problems right now yet you still offer advice to us when you can. Thanks!

      To SoCalAtty:

      Your family drama has shades that mimic mine and reading your thoughts gives me new ideas and perspectives.

      To DCJenny and BlueJay (I think it’s BlueJay) – your experiences in becoming successful professionals from difficult backgrounds is refreshing. DCJenny, I read your story about the “bravest thing you ever did” to my brother the day I dropped him off at law school. He has no money and is crashing on a friend’s living room floor in a bad part of Brooklyn. But he got into an awesome program at an awesome school that guarantees him summer positions in his field and hopes to do the 10 year public service loan forgiveness from that. He has done the research and knows all the drawbacks of law school but for what he got into and what he was offered, he knows he can do it. He is scared, having nobody to fall back on financially, but knows it is right for him. He needed a boost and I think your story helped.

      I really don’t want to leave anyone out because there is something I could say about just about every regular commenter. These are just a few of the ones that have helped me personally in the last few weeks. I also usually stay out of these discussions for the same reasons named above.

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        GAH perspective not prospective! It is late on a Friday. Forgive me.

      • Could you link to the “bravest thing you ever did? post? TIA!

      • Aw thanks Blonde Lawyer. Best of luck to your brother. It’s not easy to make it through law school without any backup financial assistance, especially because the financial aid offices seem to think everyone has magical trust funds to tide them over while they wait on loan checks, but it is doable, and I had a great law school experience. Being brave enough to take the first step tells me your brother will be all right.

        PS: There are some advantages to having a difficult background. You can bet I milked that sh!t for all it’s worth in my law school applications essays.

      • Aw, shucks. Thanks (yes it’s me). Seriously though – I try to take a lot of time to mentor interns or law students from “underprivileged” backgrounds, so if you ever know someone who’s moving to DC and could use some advice, feel free to ask me for contact info. It is not easy building a professional career when you don’t know anyone who has one.

    • ok, not to reinforce that there is an ‘in-crowd’ (b/c i think you are all the sh1t) but I have been thinking we haven’t heard from Godzilla in a giant-lizard’s-age… has anyone heard from her? know if she’s ok? I miss her RAWRs and building-crushing and tree-eating….

      • I was wondering about her, too. I hope you are ok Godzilla and just hibernating or whatever it is you super giant lizards do. *rawr*

        • Ditto. Godzilla, where are thou, dear? Please send a puff of nuclear flame as a flare in our direction to let us know you’re OK.

          • Yeah, seems like the last time she posted was a couple of weeks ago about the whole sinus/allergy mess she was going through, but nothing else. Godzilla! Where are you! RAWR!

      • Yoohoo dahlings, I’m heeeeeere! I’ve been smashing trucks and ripping my bosses’ heads off. It’s a rough lyfe. Once my craziness settles down a bit, I promise I’ll be rawring on here more often.

        • Glad you’re doing alright, and still leaving a trail of mayhem. We wouldn’t expect any less of you, my dear.

        • Well, as long as you’re putting your powers to good use. *RAWR* back at ya!

    • Dear EC MD, I appreciate you because whenever we have a poster with a medical issue, I always think ‘wish I contribute something’ followed by ‘ah well, hope EC MD sees this’. And you always do. Am particularly glad that you were able to extend some real-life help and support to the regular poster w breast cancer.

      • I echo this appreciation for EC MD. I often need someone to answer the question of, “Should I be worried about this?” And when someone who has a little medical knowledge can tell me, no, it’s ok, only start to worry if XYZ, then I feel much better. Thanks for chiming in!

    • Ptooey and PTOOEY?

  3. karenpadi :

    Bay Area Women! I’m thinking we need a meet-up in the South Bay. Here’s the details:

    Saturday, September 22nd, 2012 at 1pm
    Cafe Borrone in Menlo Park (next to the Caltrain Station)

    Can’t wait to see you there!
    [email protected]
    I’ll send a message to the mailing list too.

    • YAY! Can’t wait!!

    • Kontraktor :

      OO I hope I can make it :_

    • SF Bay Associate :

      Aw, I’m out of town. And I love Cafe Borrone. Have fun!!!

    • I wish I lived in San Francisco! The weather is NOT as hot as NYC, and it could be VERY Romantic. I rememmber when I was dateing Alan, he had a acountent’s convention there and he had a FREE room, so we went TOGETHER, and stayed at the MARRIOT near the Fisherman’s Cove. It was OK, but Alan got drunk and I had to keep him in the room until he soberred up. FOOEY! I missed out on alot of siteseeing. If I EVER get MARRIED, I will want my HUSBAND to take me there.

      Right now, I am geting hounded by Jim, who NOW tells me he needs to file that darn HSR form next week. I put him off, b/c Frank took the day off (sick). I think he just wanted to go FISHEING on the Ocean — he has a 25 foot boat that we all went on last year. The manageing partner got seasick and vomited all OVER the top of the boat. UGH! We all just tryed to pretend it did NOT hapen, but unfortuneateley, the smell was EVERY WHERE. FOOEY!

      So I told Jim that we would have it by MID-WEEK. This gives me time to get the manageing partner to MAKE Frank do the work. Frank has done NOTHING I can tell and I must bill 25 hour’s. That’s $11,125 for ME, and I have YET to have something on paper, and Frank will be billeing also, but NOT until next month. OMG, I hope the General Council does NOT hit the roof! Anyway, Happy Friday!!!!! I am going to the beach tomorow, but just JONE’S Beach with Myrna. Yay!!!!!!

      • Don’t bill until you deliver the form! Monthly billing is the norm in litigation but not for transactional work like this.

    • Oh my goodness. I used to live right there. Two blocks away.

      I will be with you in spirit, but for now I’m stuck in Chicago….

    • Very excited!!! I’ll be doggie sitting near there and should be able to sneak away for a bit :)

    • Thanks for organizing Karenpadi! And I think I can make it to this one.

  4. K...in transition :

    Just curious, what’s your favorite [this website] inside joke or site specific term?

    I think I’m gonna go with either JSFAMO or lady garden.

    • lawsuited :

      Considering my love note to Herbie above, I should probably go with the fondue….

    • Lady garden party FTW so hard. I smile every time I see that phrase.

      • Merabella :

        This has infiltrated my entire life. If there is ever mention of garden party I begin to snicker uncontrollably.

        I also love JSFAMO and Fondue for those life moments when you just need the right catch phrase.

      • Lady garden party and JSFAMO are tied. I love them both.

      • Totally ladygarden party. I have added it to my vocabulary and it makes me smile.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      The Godzilla RAWR that I do silently on a regular basis, or on occasion when really provoked, just under my breath. I haven’t completely done it out loud at work . . . yet. . .

      • Don’t forget to add growls to your repertoire. A well-timed GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR can work wonders ;)

    • Lady garden party, totally. Extra points if said in a British accent a la Downton Abbey.

    • I’ll go a step farther and say that K in transition’s “tiptoe through the tulips of my ladygarden” is the best. euphenism. evar.

      • K...in transition :

        haha I didn’t even say that trying to be funny, I was totally being serious… which might be a problem unto itself, huh?!

      • This, absolutely!

    • Divaliscious11 :

      Anything to do with lady parts and garden parties.

    • You guise, I am so honored that the use of lady garden has, as it were, bloomed and thrived.

      I, however, still snigger every time I put a hairband on my wrist (which is every day). It just never gets old for me.

      • You guise, I am so honored that the use of lady garden has, as it were, bloomed and thrived.

        I, however, still SNICKER (sry mod software, not tryna be rude) every time I put a hairband on my wrist (which is every day). It just never gets old for me.

        • anon's lady garden :

          Speaking of which, I don’t remember who it was exactly that recommended babeland, but this garden thanks you immensely.

    • I have to say DOOSH. I say that all the time now, just the way it’s spelled. Actually, more like DOOOOOOOOSH.

    • Sorry, but I’m gonna have to vote for an oldie but goody – one blue thumb nail and hair band on wrist. Because that’s what I totally have going on today.

    • Since I started the difficult process of divorce last month, JSFAMO is my mantra – about everything. Can’t tell you all how much it helps in soooo many different ways everyday.

      • JSFAMO from that DOOSH, throw a lady garden party, and have some fondue by the fire. MMkay?

  5. Online dating fail – 0 for 3 – the first was a dud who kept talking about his mom, the second turned out to be lying about his name and married with a toddler, and the third seemed to not recognize it was a first date and turned all handsy-mchandsy on me

    I don’t remember this being so hard back in my earlier 20s…

    *rant end*

    • Sydney Bristow :

      I think I went on dates with numbers 1 and 3! Number 3 was hard to get rid of.

    • One of my biggest pet peeves is a handsy guy. What about when you’re out at a bar, and some guy you’ve never met before starts trying to get all touchy-feely? Ugh, gives me the skeevies just thinking about it. And it makes me so angry: what makes you think you’re entitled to touch me and invade my personal space simply because I’m having a conversation with you?

      • IT WAS INSANE! We’re talking hands on the lower back, hip, and eventually the inner thigh. Tried not to shut him down too obviously since we were with his friends (yes, that was a surprise on the first date) but was pretty clear that I wasn’t digging it which he then read as a green light to try to get me to make-out on a street corner in my very small suburb in which my bosses and coworkers live. We’re talking hands in my back pockets – WHAT WAS HE THINKING?!?!?!

        • I think it’s OK to shut down someone obviously when they’re so out of line. And no, it’s not your job to make him look good in front of his friends when he’s so determinedly acting like an @ss. You are not the caretaker of his reputation, he is.

    • K...in transition :

      oooh, rather than a rant, let’s tell worst first date stories?

      Mine is either:

      1. when I was 20 and he was rude to me and the waitress at the pizza joint and then made a point to tell me that HE was taking home the leftovers because HE paid the check… and then tried to kiss me at the car door when we walked to our separate vehicles!

      2. when I was 28 and met a guy for a drink that was an okc guy (the only I’ve ever met in person from there). He asked what I do and, when I told him, he spent an hr telling me how therapists are crooks who trick people into thinking that’s a real profession and who probably just like to hear everyone’s gossip.

      I have to admit, I’m hoping this thread grows huge, it could be AWESOME hehe

      • When we met up for the date (which I thought was going to be dinner), he proposed that we just go back to his place and watch cable. Seriously. But I was a starving student so I proposed we go eat at some noisy bar. Over dinner he asked me to attend his family reunion the next day. I couldn’t ditch him fast enough. Then he phone stalked me for the next couple of weeks. Ick.

      • Guy who kept talking about his wife. (Actually, I have some sympathy for him, since he was getting divorced, but it was a horrible first date.)

      • No offense to anyone who might be on there (myself included) but okc is really just terrifying. A few weeks ago I started talking to this dude on there who seemed real chill, messages quickly transitioned to texting, which transitioned to pictures of his puppy, and then rather quickly transitioned to a picture of his… um…. other puppy. That conversation ended quickly.

        • I met my boyfriend who I live with on there. I don’t think okc is any sketchier than any of the other free ones (like match), at least in my area. They are all somewhat inherently sketchy.

        • I agree with you. I tried all the sites for 4 months or so. WORST experiences by far were on OKC. Multiple sexual references to things “black girls do” or “black girls like”. One dude started a chat with me referencing black male private parts…I won’t finish the rest. Every single black woman, white male stereotype was applied. Truly sickening.

        • I’ve met some really nice guys on there. You just have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Actually I’ve had better luck on OKC than on any other site, probably because they have more members and they don’t have the situation where somebody puts up a profile but doesn’t pay and so can’t write you back.

          • springtime :

            Yup I agree- OKC seems to be the best site in my major city for young professionals. Eharmony was a disaster for me and Match was full of way more creepy people- I think you really have to figure out what works in your area.

        • I’m dying, because I thought you were all talking about guys from Oklahoma City. DUH.

      • Can't think of a name :

        Mine was probably with a guy an acquaintance set me up with. She didn’t know either of us well but knew we both liked martial arts and music, so she thought maybe we’d hit it off. We went to a bar where I was something of a regular. As soon as we walked in, I said I was heading to grab a beer and asked if he’d like anything. He said no, so I got my beer and then met him at a table. As soon as I sat down, he got up and said he was going to get a beer. I looked at him kind of like, “Wha-? I thought you didn’t want one,” and he says, “Oh, I thought at this point in our relationship it would be best to keep our finances separate.” Relationship? Finances?! It was all downhill from there.

      • First date – Told me his mom died of cancer.

        Four or fifth date – making out on the couch and WHO WALKS IN. Went a little something like this.

        Madre – WTH?!?! Who is this?!
        Me: You’re his mom?
        Madre – Yes
        Me: Not step mom
        Madre – No
        Me hitting boy and telling him what a total $%(@#*$@ and leaving. Who says that?!?

        • Divaliscious11 :

          The guy whose mom walks in when he is making out with a chick and says WTH – What is this??? lolololol

          Not making light of having cancer, but she sounds like a handful…

          • To be fair we were in college, so it was her house. a what the hell was warrented…

        • Did you at least tell her that her son told you she was dead?

          • Honestly, I don’t remember but I think my yelling at him about said lie hopefully got the point across. I hope she beat some sense into him

      • karenpadi :

        I have more of a first date theme.

        Here are the clues:
        1. Most guys in the Silicon Valley on OKC are software engineers.
        2. Most software engineers hate the idea of patenting software.
        3. I write software patents.

        Result: hour-long lectures about why software patents are evil by guys who are “experts” based on reading one or two circle-jerk articles on Wired or ArsTechnica.

        Other than that, your typical first dates: guy not over ex, 38 yr old looking for a mommy to take over buying clothing for him, guy leaving me stranded in a scary bowling alley, subtle and overt misogyny, guys who just moved to the area and are looking for a tour guide, and guys saying they will call (and don’t).

        • Oh, software guys. I dated a LOT of startup guys (and Googlers) in Seattle. I represented M’soft. Imagine the first date rants I got to listen to…

        • Dr. Science :

          Interesting, my SO is a software engineer and strong supporter of patents (and copywrites). No ripped software, movies, music etc in our house. But 90% of the clothes he has either I or his mother bought.

      • Anne Shirley :

        He hit my hand when I insisted on splitting the check, leaving me to pick my credit card up from the ground, left the table and stood by the door tapping his foot when I took too long in the ladies room, and was shocked I didn’t want a second date.

      • I’ve been with hubs for 12 years, so my dating stories are well-aged, but these were the two worst first (only!) dates:

        1) Guy I’d been friendly with for ages finally gets up the nerve to ask me out, although I had no idea how much nerve it took. He broke into a flop sweat at dinner, then got the runs (he kept running to the bathroom at dinner, was gone a long time each time), and finally, a roach ran across our table. He was a gentleman, though, and killed it.

        2) A friend of a friend in college asked me out. I lived in the dorms, but he lived at home, so he came to pick me up to take me to dinner. As we were driving, I asked him where we were going, and he said “my mom is making pizza.” The pizza was fabulous, but I didn’t even know his last name, so it was super-awkward to meet the parents!

        • You #1 reminds of something that happened to me many years ago. There was this guy in my church young adult group who had a serious crush on me and told everyone but me because supposedly he didn’t feel like he was worthy because he was unemployed… and I had a boyfriend. So he rode his bike by my house regularly (like I wasn’t going to notice?) and apparently mooned over me and, of course, other people told me. Then on my first Mardi Gras, we were out on the street at parades and had both had too much to drink and I guess he couldn’t take it anymore so he just abandoned me on the street while he went to cry on the shoulder of another friend. I walked the whole way back to my boyfriend’s apartment, drunk as a skunk, and I couldn’t get down the sidewalk so I decided to walk in the street holding myself up with the passing floats. It’s a miracle I didn’t get run over and die. I don’t think I ever heard from him after that.

          • Holding yourself up with passing floats?! That doesn’t sound very stabilizing.

            What is it about obsessed guys that makes them such a mess when they get their chance? A different type of guy would have totally taken advantage of your drunken state, but this one just left to keep whining. Crazy.

            I didn’t mention that the guy in story #1 was a regular customer at the coffee bar I worked at. Like 3-4 visits/day regular. And the coffee bar was on the way to his office from the subway. After the failed date, he stopped coming in for several weeks, and even took a roundabout route to work so he wouldn’t walk by…

          • No, holding yourself up with the gigantic moving floats is not a smart idea. I could have fallen underneath and been run over. But I was 26 and it was my first Mardi Gras and sh!t happens and I lived to tell the tale.

            No idea what was up with the guy. You’re right. Crazy.

          • I gotta admit, girls with huge crushes aren’t much better.

            We obsess and obsess and then when we see the guy in the elevator, our friends have to hear about it for days. Then the dude says Hello to us one time, and we go, “Uh…” and say something stupid. And then our friends have to hear about it for weeks.

      • Years ago I went on a date with a guy from a newspaper ad (yes, back in the dark ages). We met at a cafe and he was pretty unattractive and had bad body odor. I am, unfortunately, a very polite person, so I suffered through a cup of coffee and some conversation even though I really wanted to leave. After a little while, he opened up a grimy backpack and pulled out an equally grimy, dogeared, obviously much-read book. He put the book in the middle of the table and told me it was a really great book that he had enjoyed a lot. The title of the book was An*l Pleasure and Health. I couldn’t bring myself to touch it. Afterward, as we were outside the cafe saying our goodbyes, two different people I knew walked by and saw us, and I had to introduce them to this creepy guy since he was still standing there, and he told them he was my date.

        The other really bad one was the guy who had a bad temper and rolled down the window of his car to shout insults at other drivers multiple times. Didn’t see him again either.

      • Went on a date with a guy who told a joke that compare the v*gina to the rotting carcass of an animal.

        …and I’ve now basically outed myself if any of my RL friends/acquaintances read c’rette, because I immediately went home and told EVERYONE.

        • Now I wanna know the “joke”. And unrelatedly, I really hope you’ve been shopping and buying yourself pretty things!

        • Oh dear god please share the joke… that is too absurd to keep to yourself

      • :-). Great stories y’all..
        I was recently reminded of the time the guy showed up in a red Corvette. Well, no problem, I was fresh off the boat and mercifully had no idea how much these things cost. But I did joke mildly about the red convertible thing, and how it made him look like his daddy’s midlife crisis.
        No, there was no 2nd date, why do you ask?
        And I didn’t even throw up in it or anything.

    • How did you figure out #2>

      • Pure dumb luck – He had told me his last name was something which began with an “R” – he was telling some story about his students (5th grade teacher – makes it even grosser) and mentioned that they called him “Mr. S”. I questioned it and he launched into some absurd and clearly untrue story about how the kids called him that because he looked like another teacher (yeah… right). It quickly devolved into me asking to see his ID which he claimed he didn’t have, followed by his car registration which he also claimed wasn’t in the car, while I tried to figure out a way to leave and not have him potentially follow me home.

        Some quick google-fu afterwards figured out who he was and confirmed the existence of a wife and kid, so I may or may not have replied to his “Thanks for meeting me – I promise I am who I say I am, but I understand” with a link to a picture of him with his REAL name from some adult baseball team.

        Couldn’t resist

        • “I may or may not have replied to his “Thanks for meeting me – I promise I am who I say I am, but I understand” with a link to a picture of him with his REAL name from some adult baseball team.”

          I think I love you.

          • Bonus points if you cc’ed the wife and the team.

          • HAHA – It felt less likely to encourage retaliation than the link to his classroom website and the public notice for the house he and his wife bought earlier this year…

            I just wish I could have seen his face when he opened it

          • For this sort of thing, I wish we could send Howlers, from the Harry Potter world.

          • I don’t think I love you, I know I love you.

          • Susan, the HP reference got a good slow clap from me. There are SO MANY things I wish we could do. sigh.

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          And here is why I’m naive. Instead of thinking “oh, wife and kid.” I was thinking one might use a fake name dating online and meeting strangers so if they are psycho they can’t track you down later. I was thinking fake name sounded pretty smart. Alas, he was just a scum bag.

    • Adjunct Law Professor :

      How did you figure out the truth about No. 2?

    • Anyone who knows me IRL has probably heard this story :

      When I was internet dating, I once went on the wrong date. Here’s how it happened:

      I turn up, right place, right time.

      There’s a bloke outside obviously waiting for someone, but nobody resembling the profile picture so I go in and stand around trying to be visibly waiting, so he can find me when he arrives.

      Bloke from outside, looking NOTHING like the profile picture (and much older), comes up to me: “Hi, [myname]?”

      I think, ah well, that’s the internet for you. I say, “Yes, hi”.

      He buys me a drink, we find a table.

      I briefly wonder, is this the right person? But this is the agreed time and place, and he knew my name, so I go with it. I already know I’m not interested, but there’s nothing wrong with a nice drink and a chat.

      As time goes on, little things he says just don’t add up – both things about him and a question he asks me about my job that doesn’t match my own profile information. This is not simply someone being economical with the truth on his online profile. I become more and more convinced that this is the wrong person. When he refers to a different dating website I am pretty much convinced, but by now it would be far too awkward to do anything about it.

      Drinks finished, we part ways amicably but without exchanging numbers.

      I get home to an email: “I was there – where were you?”. Turns out, he saw me come in but was hiding away in a corner, and when he saw someone else buying me a drink he figured he was mistaken.

      Presumably somewhere in the same town there is also a woman who shares my name, who either stood up an internet date or thinks he stood her up…

      • That is amazing – ever make another attempt with the original intended date?

        • Anyone who knows me IRL has probably heard this story :

          Yes, we rescheduled but he then postponed that due to work, and I was getting a weird vibe from him by then so I cancelled altogether.

      • This happened to me, in Grand Central Terminal. Twelve years later, I’m still married to the wrong date!

    • If it makes you feel any better, I’m in my early 20s and have no real dating going on.

    • springtime :

      You would think after all of the first dates I’ve had lately since joining OKC I would have a good story. I usually don’t go on the date if I get any type of weird vibe. Maybe a bit extreme, I know, but it seems to have saved me some stress.

      I did have one guy message me about my favourite NBA team and told me the head coach was an a**hole. Which isn’t even true. And is a little rude!

      Usually they are pretty nice, just utterly boring or unattractive.

  6. Sydney Bristow :

    Does anyone use that clothing swap group that was set up awhile ago? I have some Eloquii items that I need to get rid of that are size 18 and I’d like to send them to someone here (maybe in exchange for size 16 items or just the cost of shipping) instead of trying to take them to goodwill.

    • lawsuited :


      • I love how you just long-arm-jurisdictioned the comment area.

        *high five*

        • lawsuited :

          Yeah, I didn’t know that was going to happen, so it’s the online equivalent of yelling as I run away into the distance.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        Haha glad I could help. :-) Not to enable the shopping spree you’ve been on, but NY & Company is having a buy 1 get 1 free sale on pants right now and they go up to a size 18.

        • Sydney Bristow: You have made my life. I am so so so excited to have discovered Eloqui. What’s a size 16/18 girl to do without them?

      • I loooove Eloquii!! Huzzah!

    • Francie Nolan :

      I have been wondering this as well I have some Anne Taylor wrap blouse (18), talbot white jeans (20), and a cute JC Penney polka dot dress (18), that I want to find a new home.

    • I’m interested in the answer to this; I also have some clothes (some work, some casual) in good condition I’d like to get rid of.

    • lawsuited :

      Well, folks, I’m an 18. I used to be a 16, but don’t hold onto ill-fitting work clothes (I don’t tend to love work clothes enough to let them clutter my closet if they don’t fit) so regretfully, I can’t reciprocate. Sorry!

    • I did – I sent a dress to In-House Europe awhile back.

      • But didn’t someone set up a website or facebook group or something so we can post our items and people can see if they want them?

        • Yeah, that’s what I used It’s on [email protected] (with an a – that word will bring on moderation).

        • I should mention that using [email protected] was really easy. It’s a little odd to get used to because when you post your “[email protected]” it only comes up when someone clicks on your name then you have to do a shout out to the group to say you posted something. I didn’t do it that way – just told everybody what I had in a shout out and somebody claimed it. What I liked best is that you can send each other private messages without having to publicly share email addresses and she could send me her address without posting her name and address to the group. It all went smoothly and I just heard from her that she got the dress and has worn it twice and gotten lots of compliments! I love that! (On another note, if you all see missing letters in my posts, please know I’m not an inept typist – the r key on my laptop keyboard seems to be sticking and sometimes I don’t notice that it hasn’t registered).

          • Sydney Bristow :

            Ok, I’m going to try and post my items there this weekend. Everyone else should too!

  7. Speaking of boots… now accepting recommendations for good stores or brands for wide-calf dress boots (17″ or greater circumference). I have already explored everything that Nordstrom and Zappos have to offer, so I’m looking for new options. Help?

    • Idk what brands are best, but Nordstrom will stretch leather boots for free in stores.

    • Me too! I’ve just given up on boots and unless it’s actually snowing, I wear ballet flats.

    • I haven’t pulled the trigger yet, but I have looked online at Duo boots (UK-based). You input your shoe size and calf circumference and they pull matches for you. Decent selection, IIRC. If anyone has personal experience with the brand – or other recommendations – would love to hear! I have enormous calves, which have thus far prevented me from purchasing tall boots. Makes me sad!!!

      • Merabella :

        Wardrobe Oxygen has a post on her experiences with DUO boots. I think it is a good read and she gives tips on buying them yourself.

      • I got a pair of tall, basic black leather riding boots for my wide calves from Duo. Overall, I found the process very easy and reassuring. The quality is good; i work them quite a bit last winter and they look really good (even better if I polished them). They were slightly snugger than I thought they would be based on my measurements — when I first got them I was worried they were too small, but they stretched just enough to be really comfortable, even with cords or jeans in them. If you are between circumferences, I would go up.

        Overall, I would order them again.

      • LinLondon :

        I’ve got two pairs, love them!

    • lawsuited :

      So, I once got a pair from Wide Widths. The boots were nice, but their customer services was the very worst I have experienced. The only boots I have now have elastic in the shaft, and thankfully that style is becoming more common. I’ll follow up with links.

    • The problem with wide-calf boots for me is that they fit my calves but then gape at the top. Try regular boots with elastic sewn in near the zipper.

    • Divaliscious11 :

      I can’t sing the praises of DUO boots enough – I have 3 pair, and every year, I check to see what to add to my wardrobe!

    • Boots with stretch inserts, for instance Cole Haan Air Jalisa.
      I had Naturalizer wide calf boots and they gaped at the top. Now I have Rockports with full-length elastic insert and they fit much better.

    • SoCalAtty :

      What is your shoe size? The calf widths vary based on that. I wear a 6.5 shoe size and used to have a 15 and 3/4″ calf and that was impossible. I’ve got it down to 14 1/8 and I can almost fit into a normal boot. Not quite, but almost.

      You can get actual tall riding boots at a tack shop fitted to almost any shoe/calf combination – but unless you buy the very, very expensive brands the will be impossible to break in. I have a beautiful custom pair that is for horse shows only, but they are so pretty I’ve been known to wear them out…

    • MissJackson :

      I have this issue, and to make things even more challenging, I have bunions, so sometimes regular width shoes are too narrow for me. My calves are 15.5″ and 16.5″ (is it weird that my calves are that differently sized??).

      Naturalizer carries several pair of “wide shaft” boots. I bought two pair last year — one I loved, one I hated, so it’s a bit hit or miss. Both pair adequately fit my calves.

      I’ve heard great things about DUO and may order a pair this year.

      Also, J Crew’s boots come in wide calf sizes. I haven’t tried them myself yet, but I’m in the market for a pair of brown boots this season, and they have several promising options.

      • Former dancer, so my calves are huge. I have a pair of J. Crew wide calf boots I bought about 3 years ago which have been through serious wear and are still holding up nicely. I need to take them to my cobbler for new soles, but they’re pretty great.

        I’ve also done Eddie Bauer wide calf boots in the past, but I checked their website and it seems like they’re selling outside brands of footwear instead of their own now. I may check back again in a few weeks, once boot season is solidly here. I wore a pair of tall motorcycle-style boots from them out after 4-5 years of every-weekend wear.

  8. Threadjack-

    I’m having a difficult time and could use some life and professional advice from all of you. I recently graduated law school and had a job lined up, but the day before I was to start they told me they no longer had work and could not hire me. They knew this for weeks before I moved to this location for this job (away from the major market in my area). They raised the idea of potential hourly work a few weeks ago, but they have now been ignoring my calls/e-mails. So now I am unemployed, out of the major market, and running out of funds (paying double rent to move here and start working . . . ). I’ve also been trying to get in contact with my network and had a few lunches set up, every one of which has canceled at the last minute. It blows my mind that my great school, great grades, and solid experience have left me in this spot. I guess I may have just needed to vent, but seriously, I have no idea what to do.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      I have no advice for you Simsi, but I think the firm that hired you SUCKS and I’m sorry.

    • This is the worst ever. I wish I had any kind of advice to offer but :c

    • Ugh…isn’t that basically the exact situation for the main promissory estoppel case we all learned in Contracts? Have you moved very far away from your school? Maybe try contacting your career services office? I’m sure at 99% of the law schools, that’s a waste, but a lot of my classmates were able to get temporary jobs at the courthouses around our state.

    • Ugh, awful. If it’s a small firm this might not matter, but be sure to tell your career services office about this. At the very least it will make it difficult for them to do the same thing to another student from your school. I would, if possible, move back to where there was a major market (near your law school? and therefore near lots of law school friends/contacts/where your school has influence?). This economy is just bad. It’s really bad for lawyers. I’ve been there. That feeling that you checked all the boxes and did everything right and here you are. It’s so demoralizing. Can you do anything to affirm your sense of self-worth as a lawyer? Pro bono work, writing an article, helping a professor with research? I’m not impressed by the people blowing off lunches. WTF. Did they at least re-schedule? Lunch re-schedules happen all the time, but if they just canceled, that is not acceptable. Are they your school alumni? Because that’s just not good karma. (I realize I keep going back to your school, but seriously, part of what you pay for is the alumni network and career services support.)

    • lawsuited :

      I’m so sorry this happened to you. It can be hard to fathom being unemployed despite great grades and other credentials and having done everything “right”, but it happens to lots of people (and it happened to me). If a firm doesn’t have work then they can’t afford to pay you even though you’re great, but you will find a firm that does have work and would prefer to hire someone with great credentials.

      If I were you, I’d move back to the major centre and reach out to EVERYONE you know, let them know you’re looking, and then they can help you network. I was in a similar situation to yours 6 months ago, and I was recommended for the job I recently accepted by a law school professor who knew I was looking. Be prepared for it to take time (it took 6 months for me) and keep positive by reminding yourself that you’re a great candidate and you just have to find the right firm.

    • emcsquared :


      I would ask (very nicely, but firmly) the firm for help covering the expenses you have paid in reliance on the job offer – apartment, moving costs, etc. If they won’t help, go back to your career services (or better yet, student legal services) and see if they can help you get some of those costs reimbursed. The employer has a reputation to maintain with the school’s career services; it doesn’t look good for them to stiff new grads like that.

      Also – I would seriously consider moving back to major market, breaking the lease in smaller market (or see if law firm will assume it), and starting to do some pro bono or legal volunteer work while you job search.

      • “Also – I would seriously consider moving back to major market, breaking the lease in smaller market (or see if law firm will assume it), and starting to do some pro bono or legal volunteer work while you job search.”

        Agreed, that is what I would too. How awful of them! I cannot imagine. that sucks :(

      • This. What an awful predicament for them to put you in. I think it is totally reasonable that they pay the costs to break your lease and reimburse moving expenses.

      • Former Partner, Now In-House :

        This AND get them to agree that if you file for unemployment benefits, they will not challenge it.

        Question for an employment lawyer: can she collect unemployment if she never got a paycheck from them?

        • Not in NY, at least.

          • Not in Ohio, either.

            What a dreadful thing to happen, Simsi, and I agree with the other advice to make some reasonably polite but firm demands on them based on promissory estoppel (and, um, basic decency). Unfortunately, there’s no cause of action for being a-holes but that should be the subtext of your demand letter. Let us know what happens.

        • I think you have to have wages with them in order to collect from them. Some states might allow you to reach back to a former employer to collect, but if you were in school just prior, that’s probably going to complicate matters.

      • Totally agree about moving back to the major market if possible, and doing your best to get some moving help from the b*stards.. What an awful thing to do to someone.
        If it’s any consolation, it may be easy for you to revive the searches you were in before this happened, and you might get a much shorter wait next time. But I’m so sorry, I know it’s not real compensation for such an awful experience..

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      I would try to negotiate with them to pay to get me out of my lease, to pay my moving expenses, and to pay for me to get re-established where I came from, plus some help looking for other work back home. Not to sound all ATL but this sounds like promissory estopple and if they think you might sue them, they might agree to this.

      I’d start by trying to get them to do this for you since they totally screwed you over. If they say no, then I’d ratchet it up by telling them you think they have a legal obligation to do it. I’d even try to get a couple months pay while you line up other work. Good luck!

    • No advice beyond what others have offered but I wanted to offer you my deepest sympathies. What that law firm did was totally crappy.

    • My firm did this once to someone – he was going to move from Canada to US for the job. He hadn’t moved yet but had shipped some stuff and done some apartment hunting. Our HR dept actually had to pay him his costs for moving stuff, his apartment deposit and plus some additional money because he threatened legal action. I am not sure if he had a valid claim or if my company did this to keep their reputation intact but could you ask them to reimburse you costs for moving at the very least?

      • I know the market is awful, but I would have trouble looking in the eye whoever made that decision if it was my company messing with someone like that. I would totally consider making a move if the opportunity presented itself. It’s such bad form.

    • are you interested in working for a big firm? great school and great grades gives you a good chance even off-cycle. i know a few 2012 and 2011 graduates at dewey who were able to land other big law jobs, and it sounds as if most if not all of their classes found positions. start sending out resumes now, and make sure to send a resume again through any alumni at the firm. the junior attorneys often know if the firm is looking or understaffed and it helps to have a connection. a recruiter may also work with you (one worked with me even though i was straight out of law school). friends who have been at firms for at least a year or two probably know of a few recruiters. i’ve also seen several clerkship positions opening up at the last minute. you can sign up for weekly updates on oscar. moving back to major market is probably a good idea.

      • also, it may take a few months but remain persistent. you never know when a position will open up at a firm/govt office you applied to 5 months ago. in addition to sending resumes, make sure you sign up for your school’s career database, several linked in groups (my school alumni group sends a weekly email with job postings), PSLaw Net, OSCAR, etc. These will do the internet searching work for you.

  9. Anonymous :

    Any thoughts on leasing vs buying a car? I’ve never leased before. Pros/cons?

    • I would only lease if you have a critical need for a brand-new car, or if you know that you only need a car for a set amount of time (as in, you’re only going to be in that city for 2-3 years and then moving somewhere you can take transit). Buying makes so much more sense in the long run, because cars should last well beyond the time you make payments on it.

    • K...in transition :

      Suze Orman and Dave Ramsay are both 1000000% against leasing… read their websites for info or check y*utube for their reasoning!

    • I think it depends on your situation. One thing to keep in mind with leasing is mileage, if you drive a lot. Also, I think you’re usually required to have more insurance.

    • I know this is the world’s most annoying answer, but it really depends on your situation. If you are someone that plans on a new car every 2 years or so, leasing makes sense. I have a friend who loves leasing because 1) he is one of those people that always wants a new car, and 2) the car is always under warranty so you never have to deal with pricey repairs. You could also lease and plan to buy the car out at the end of the term if you do plan to keep the car but don’t have the money to put down now. However, if you tend to keep cars for awhile you are better off buying.

    • Do you want a car payment forever? Then lease.

      But seriously..if you love new cars, don’t want hassle and have a few hundred extra dollars a month you don’t mind parting with, then lease. It doesn’t make a lot of fiscal sense, but it’s also not like you’re dropping thousands a month.

      Cars don’t have much resale value, so buying one is really for those who want to pay for it outright (or in a short period of time) and then use that car payment money to do something better…like invest (what you’re supposed to do) or buy new clothes and jewelry (what I do). I have never had a car payment and plan to drive my Hyundai into the ground, but… it’s a Hyundai. I didn’t buy it because of the amenities or because it’s fun to drive (what I would assume you’d want with something leased). It was cheap and got really good safety and reliability ratings.

    • Jenna Rink :

      I wouldn’t lease every time, but I think it can be a good option depending on your circumstances. We just leased our first “grown up” car, and found that as far as monthly cash flow in the short term goes, it was the best choice. We qualified for recent graduate financing, which made a new car much less expensive than a lightly used one. We were working with a limited budget and our choices were to lease our new car, which will be under a bumper to bumper warranty for the entire lease, or buy a car with enough miles on it that it was likely we were going to need to put large amount of money into it irregularly. We would have had a lower car payment if we had gone with an older car, but felt like our budget made a predictable monthly payment preferable. I expect we’ll buy our car at the end of the lease.

    • So, as everyone else said, it depends on what you want. I wanted to chime in and offer a (rare) example when leasing to own was in fact the financially more savvy option.

      Right out of college (2006), I needed a car. I was looking to spend not a lot a lot of money and didn’t really care what that car looked like as long as it ran. I shopped around for used cars (from dealers and private partys) with no success–I only had about $4k to put down.

      As it turns out, I found a Nissan dealer that was looking to get rid of its end-of-year and end-of-body-type Sentras. The lease they offered me was $0 down or 0% interest for 36 months (with $2,500 down). [They were also offering to sell it to me, with some higher amount down and a 7% interest rate).

      I knew I would eventually buy the car out, but I ended up negotiating with them to get them to lease it to me at dealer cost (!!). I put $2,500 down, the paid my payments at 0% for the next 3 years. When I went to go buy out the car, I paid the rest in cash because I had had 3 years to save up (and I managed not to lose it all in the market).

      Even better, when I bought the car, SUVs were all the rage. Then the market crashed and gas prices skyrocketed, making tiny compact cars in high demand. When I went to buy out the car, the buy-out cost projected in 2006 was $2k less than the market value of the car. If I had wanted, I could have sold it right there for a profit.

      Anyway, moral of the story don’t assume leasing is the “more expensive” option without doing some research. With the right financing packages, and depending on the car you are looking at, you may find that you can leasing with the intention to buy it out a better/ more convenient rate than buying outright.

    • Anne Shirley :

      I’ve leased in a situation where I had little money upfront, and wanted a lower per month cost than a loan, but a pretty decent chance of being able to buy the car outright in cash at the end of the term. I also like it as an option if there’s a chance you might move somewhere and not need/want the car. Or if you just know you don’t want the costs in inconvenience/stress of maintaining a car.

  10. Why couldn't we elope? :

    I need wedding planning help. I have come to like my FMIL less and less as time goes on – she is controlling, plays her children off each other, and is incredibly needy with her children’s time (she can’t understand why ‘talking to mom on the phone and using all our vacation days on her’ isn’t our top hobby). Of course, they’re contributing some to the wedding itself (less than my parents, but a good chunk of change), so I need to play nice.

    Usually, FH is good at playing interference… except for wedding planning, so I’m having to spend a lot of time dealing with this woman. You see, he has some very ‘traditional’ ideas, and one of them is that wedding planning is for girls and not his responsibility and that talking with the womenfolk about all their emotions about planning is the extent of his job (nevermind that I’d have fewer ’emotions’ if he’d just write up a guest list already). When I give him tasks, he doesn’t reliably follow up because he doesn’t seem to think it’s important or urgent – and he doesn’t take notes when we talk about this stuff so we end up having the same conversation over and over again. He’s even accused me of being the only woman in the entire universe who doesn’t like wedding planning, implying that I’m somehow defective.

    What do I do? This is taking up my time at work in part because I’m working with both our moms and vendors who are all in different time zones. I’ve had to take the vacation days off work to go deal with it and he’s stayed home. I want to go on wedding planning strike… but I have no guarantees that anything would actually get done. I feel he doesn’t respect my time and that wedding planning is beneath him, and I am getting less and less happy about what that might imply about other future things that he magically might think are the responsibility of the womenfolk. Help!

    • Can you hire a planner to deal with this for you? Can you identify the three things you care least about and delegate them to his mom to research etc? Can you sick his mom on him to do the things he’s supposed to do?

      Just throwing out ideas here, but you might want to also go on strike and restate what you’ve said here “I am getting less and less happy about what that might imply about other future things that he magically might think are the responsibility of the womenfolk.” deal with that before deposits.

      • Oh and btw having helped a friend with a diy wedding, only make it as complicated as you want. You don’t have to have programs, table cards, or cake if it doesn’t appeal to you. Don’t get sucked in to doing things you don’t want to do. If it’s a you don’t care, but other people do and they’re chipping in – delegate!

      • Why couldn't we elope? :

        Sadly, the deposit is down on the venue and the caterer. I am, however, seriously considering transforming the event into an “oops, they eloped – let’s get together and party” reception. My mom has even brought up that idea (his mom talked my mom’s ear off for two hours last night about the rehearsal dinner)!

        He’s really good about most gender equity stuff. He’s been super supportive of my career, respects his female bosses, and actively encourages me to keep working full-time when we have children. He does have a sticking point about changing last names (I MUST at least tack his on because families all have the same last name), and (apparently) wedding planning.

        I think it’s also that I’m more organized than he, so he expects that this is (1) lady territory and (2) that all things involving long-term organization, like knowing the family calendar, will fall under my jurisdiction. I’m starting to wonder if that’s a slippery slope to me being supermom in 10 years and him not proactively sharing the load.

        • A deposit is less than a lifetime of therapy. Not saying that to be nasty, but perspective! It doesn’t sound like he’s actually an a**, but some guys don’t realize not all girls dream of their wedding day. If you don’t like planning parts of it, tell him to suck it up and help plan the damn party to start your lives together.

          Not saying it can’t change, but if the default is organization = you, you are likely to get tasked with everything from vacations, to houses, to kid’s soccer schedule. Too many of my friends are running around being supermom, while their hubby is out golfing with the boys.

          • Why couldn't we elope? :

            haha! no offense taken. I am legitimately worried about being the one who will plan the un-fun stuff for the rest of our lives. I’ve started to notice that I’m the one who has her act together to plan out meals M-F, and then he grills on Saturday and invites people over and gets to be the super chef hero. I’m definitely worried I’ll be supermom while he relaxes, but I thought we were making progress… until wedding planning struck. I will have to be more proactive about this issue.

          • Does he know you are worried about this?

            I think you need to let him know. Calmly. And then listen to him.

            And tell him how important it is to you that he doesn’t get up and walk away, if he tends to do that.

        • Food for thought :

          I mean this in the gentlest way possible — because I think my SO can be like this with certain things (unclear if it’s because I’m just a better planner or it’s because of my girly parts)….

          But, just because he’s supportive of you going back to work after you have kids doesn’t mean he won’t expect you to do the lioness’s share of child-related work. He’ll just figure you can do both.

          • I agree and see major flags here – the last name approach in particular.

      • Totes McGotes :

        +1 to all of this, and best wishes.

    • You need to have a serious conversation with your fiance about how this is making you feel, and what his thoughts are on what “women’s responsibilities” are in general. If he has “traditional” ideas of what a wife should be responsible for, you need to seriously think about whether that is the life you want forever.

      If it’s just isolated to wedding planning, you need to remind him that you can’t get married by yourself; it takes both of you. If he’s totally repulsed by the idea of wedding planning and you don’t want to handle it by yourself with your FMIL, you can 1) Scrap the whole big wedding thing and march down to city hall instead – very little planning needed! or 2) BOTH chip in to hire a wedding planner that will do this stuff for you (and keep your FMIL away from you!).

      • K...in transition :

        yes to all of this… not sure if you’ve had premarital counseling but this might be a great time to do that… what some will see as traditional others see as demeaning. This might be a great learning tool time for you both!

        • Why couldn't we elope? :

          I always wanted to do premarital counseling, and his mom is pushing it (which, uh, makes me wonder if I should be insulted?). Unfortunately we’re long distance right now, so the logistics might be complicated.

          • Merabella :

            Do you think that the long distance aspect is causing some of the stress? Is it possible because he is far away he doesn’t understand the time sensitivity of wedding planning?

            I know that I had no idea how involved everything was when it came to wedding planning until I was actually in the throws of it. Maybe he just needs a swift kick in the pants (metaphorically of course).

          • lawsuited :

            DH and I did our pre-marital counselling long distance – we had one initial meeting with our officiant who gave us an exercise book for DH and I to go through and discuss together, and then one exit meeting to talk about what we’d discovered and any lingering issues.

            Also, I wouldn’t waste time being insulted by the fact that FMIL suggests pre-marital counselling. It’s likely not a sign that she thinks you’re a bad seed, more likely she found pre-marital counselling very useful, or didn’t do it and wish she had, or something.

          • This sounds like it could be a positive – meaning that she is supportive of both of you having a great start and talking. Think of her handing you a giftcard for wherever you take your car for an oil change. It can make things easier.

            You both would pick your therapist, and there are also options available through various faiths. And if the first therapist/counselor/resource person you try isn’t too your liking, switch – you are the consumer.

        • Yes, and it’s troubling that he seems to use “this is traditional” as a shorthand to:

          “I want this, and it requires you and only you to make sacrifices but not me, but I’m going to hide behind the traditional stuff to make this non-negotiable. ”

          This seems like a red flag to me. The other stuff he says, I hate to say it, but I put zero stock in it. Words are cheap. Deeds tell you everything. His deeds tell me he’s got the potential to turn into the hidebound, 1950s patriarch, with all the entitlement, and none of the awareness of what sacrifices you have to make to make his vision possible. Also, he needs to back you up against his mother. It’s team you and DH, not DH and his clan, with you as their servant.

          • Why couldn't we elope? :

            I agree with some of what you say. He hasn’t hit Don Draper status yet (if he did, there would be no wedding), but I do agree that I hit a wall when he thinks about how a family “should” be. It certainly was a red flag when he blew up at me that I wanted to keep my maiden name, but he’ll happily cook, clean, and caregive when I’m sick. He also sacrificed for me when I was in graduate school. I think we will have to explore whether there are any more of these landmines surrounding raising children before we get married.

          • Just when you’re sick?

            Cooking and cleaning need to be shared, unless both parties agree otherwise.

          • But will he cook, clean, and caregive when you’re NOT sick?

          • Why couldn't we elope? :

            haha – no, cook and clean all the time, take care of me when I’m sick. He’s a good egg (or we wouldn’t have gotten engaged in the first place). Engagement is supposed to be a time of reflection, because you can’t expect someone to change after you get married. Unfortunately, some of my reflection involves the fact that I’m signing on to setting ironclad boundaries with his mother and that the flip side of his spontaneity is disorganization.

          • He blew up at you over keeping your name? I’d be really upset by that. It’s not his deal. Having an opinion, sure. Getting angry seems way out of proportion.

    • K...in transition :

      If it were me, I’d sit FH down and explain this to him. Tell him that it isn’t about wedding planning, it’s that the wedding is the step before being married, which is the goal you both share. Explain that this step is very stressful and you need his help, the way you’ll need his help during other stressful times in your future life together. Explain that, while you love x, y, and z about his mom, you’re having a tough time keeping the peace as she seems set on taking over the event as if it’s hers whereas you want to be sure it represents the two of you. Pre-make a list of what all needs to be done. Ask him which, of the things on the list, he’s willing to take on and explain that you need him to be responsible for these because not doing so makes your life more stressful and his responsibility shows his love for you.

      As for FMIL, perhaps you can give her a few things neither you nor FH care about and let her choose from a narrowed list? For example, if you don’t care about the table silverware at the reception, explain that you’d love for her to choose her top 3 favorites that fit your ___ theme/goal, from which you and FH will make the final choice, knowing that all 3 will be amazing since she’s got a great eye for such.

      That way, FH sees that the wedding isn’t girlie, it’s a step toward your joint marriage and that helping is a way to show his love for you and FMIL’ll have some feeling of control and choice but it’s not in ways that matter to you.

      • I could have saved the space and just seconded everything K..in transition said. She said it much better.

      • I would definitely want to explore what else you fiance will consider part of his wife’s traditional responsibilities and zone out when you attempt to discuss/engage him in.

      • Why couldn't we elope? :

        Thanks! I guess here are my thoughts: I’ve already tasked him with some things, but they aren’t necessarily getting done in a timely fashion. I’ve put a deadline on some of them, and at this point I’m trying to stay out of it until he misses the deadline. Part of me resents having to be the person with the super organized lists who gives him pick his favorites and then make the bad guy if he doesn’t get them done in a timely fashion. What really annoys me is that my parents are putting in more money, and the stuff that’s in their territory got done efficiently. The stuff that involves his mom is going slowly.

        I put my FMIL on the task of ‘decorating the reception hall’ by whatever means she would like. We’ve now contacted 5-7 florists and none give enough bang for the buck (apparently) and things that she doesn’t like are blamed as “well, that may be the way people do it on the east coast, but in the midwest…” I figure the show will go on if we don’t have centerpieces, but it is not worth my time to keep looking at different florists and then being told that the designs I like aren’t anything special (and certainly not as special as Older Daughter’s wedding).

        See also: the rehearsal dinner. Apparently asking people to travel from the midwest to the my hometown is the equivalent of a ‘destination wedding’ and so we must host all out of town relatives at the rehearsal dinner. This means we’re talking 70+ people instead of 30 and so now (surprise surprise) there are no venues that are nice enough that hold 70+ people at the price point she wants to pay! And, of course, because I grew up there my mother and I are the locals whose brains she wants to pick about stuff. But yet, when I tell her I’m uncomfortable with her choice and think it’s ill-advised, she tries to argue with me! Why ask for my advice (and take an hour of my time) when you’re just going to ignore me and tell me about Older Daughter’s wedding?!

        This is long, and I’m sorry. I’m just really really angry right now that I get to have my act together and appease people and hold all the lists and dish out wedding planning in half-hour portions because any longer than that he loses focus and gets cranky. It truly makes me feel like my time is less precious because it’s ok for me to spend hours pre-preparing for a half-hour of his time that ends up being spent repeating what we’ve previously discussed (but he forgot because he wasn’t paying attention). I am angry because it is not okay that I’m losing time at work with my anger every time a three-page email comes in from his mom telling me why I’m wrong about the geography in my home town!

        • Oh my lord. He needs to nip that shit in the bud now. I’ll even draft the email for him to send his mom.

          We’re so excited that you are participating in planning our wedding. We’d love for you to be involved, but it seems as though you have a different vision of our wedding. Certainly we know you want us to be happy first and foremost, so we are going to plan the event accordingly. If you and Dad are uncomfortable with that, we would be happy to return your contribution towards our wedding.


        • Oh my lord. He needs to nip that sh*t in the bud now. I’ll even draft the email for him to send his mom.

          We’re so excited that you are participating in planning our wedding. We’d love for you to be involved, but it seems as though you have a different vision of our wedding. Certainly we know you want us to be happy first and foremost, so we are going to plan the event accordingly. If you and Dad are uncomfortable with that, we would be happy to return your contribution towards our wedding.


          Also, how about since she seems to want “bang for her buck” you give her the dinner let’s say and she can spend all her money there. She sounds like a treat.

        • If FMIL is in charge of the Rehearsal Dinner, then she doesn’t need your input if you don’t want to give it.

          • Why couldn't we elope? :

            True. I’m mainly mad that she wants the veneer of doing stuff for us (instead of for herself) and so talks to me to figure out what we want and then ignores my advice. Then again, if she wants to put the rehearsal dinner 45 minutes from the venue (> 1hr expected with traffic) over my objections, I really can’t stop her.

          • Exactly. If she’s in charge of the reception venue, then leave her in charge of the reception venue.

            It might just be her personality to ask people their advice and then ignore it. You may have to let that roll off you and let go of your reception venue responsibility. If she ignores your advice, that’s kind of her prerogative. You put her in charge.

      • “As for FMIL, perhaps you can give her a few things neither you nor FH care about and let her choose from a narrowed list? For example, if you don’t care about the table silverware at the reception, explain that you’d love for her to choose her top 3 favorites that fit your ___ theme/goal, from which you and FH will make the final choice, knowing that all 3 will be amazing since she’s got a great eye for such.” Great idea.

        And also, stick to your guns! My MIL was not happy at all with the florist I picked. But I really liked her and let MIL pick things like the flavors of cupcakes we’d eat (inviting in-laws to the cake tasting always goes over well, I would think). In the end, she loved the flowers, and got so many compliments about them, that she had to eat her words and be like, “Actually…anonahol picked out the flowers and the florist…” Same went for our photog- she was very skeptical (and VOCAL) about our choice, but the photos were amazing and she cannot stop talking about how great it was. So, if you really like a particular idea or vendor, remember it IS your wedding and if you think it’ll look great, it probably will, and MIL will have no choice but to at least tacitly agree that you picked out nice stuff.

        re: your FH. He should do something non-glitzy and logistical. Put him in charge of the alcohol, the limo, reserving the block of rooms at the hotel. My husband did all of those things and it was all very cut and dry and manly. He never looked at flowers, dresses, centerpieces, or anything. Except the food tastings of course. Like I said, that goes over well with everyone.

        But above all, he has to stand up to MIL for you. Because it’s not just the wedding, its your future home you’ll buy that she’ll critique, the name you choose for your kid, the fact that you choose to use cloth diapers or breastfeed or not breastfeed or whatever. She’ll have problems with something else you decide to do and be vocal about it, if that’s how she is right now.

    • Can you:
      1) Gracefully decline FMIL’s money for the wedding (and therefore her right to have input) or
      2) Cordon off one thing that roughly correlates with the amount of money FMIL is putting up and give her 100% control over that (e.g., centerpieces for the tables, music for the ceremony). I realize this means giving up some control, but it might be worth it for the family peace.
      3) Ask your man what he envisions for the wedding. He might be fine with a kegger in mom’s backyard. If you’re set on a Buckingham Palace level wedding, he might resent that there’s all this extra work to do for something he doesn’t want. I’m not saying that gets him off scott free. Can you compromise on a vision for a wedding that you BOTH love? (Presumably he’ll be willing to do a little more than the kegger planning would require because it would make you happy and he loves you. Presumably you’d be willing to do something a little less than the Palace wedding because it would make him happy and you love him.)
      4) Designate something as your man’s responsibility — something he cares about (guys often like food, drinks, and music) — and give him 100% authority (and responsibility) to take care of that? (Or maybe you just retain, say, one veto so if he comes up with something you hate, you can ask him to find something else.) No checking in, no nagging. If he’s in control of the music, say, he’s in control and he has the authority to make it happen however he sees fit.
      5) Or you can go to the courthouse tomorrow.

      • Why couldn't we elope? :

        Thanks! They’re all good ideas, and I thought I was being oh so smart when I implemented 2-4. (1) is unfortunately the only way to have enough guests to avoid future drama.

        You have no idea how tempting (5) is right now. The courthouse is gorgeous and I would like to spend the rest of my life with him… far away from his mother.

        • Sorry to be ALL over this, but why not have her money subsidize the extra guests? It can go towards their food/booze and if there’s money left over, she can apply it towards their hotel rooms making it cheaper for them to attend?

          • Why couldn't we elope? :

            I appreciate it! My family is much bigger than his. We decided that the guests would be 1/3 our friends, 1/3 for his side, 1/3 my side. The total number was chosen such that on my side my aunts, uncles, and first cousins can come… and that’s about it. I don’t even want to think about the grief I would get if we limited things to family only or aunts, uncles no cousins and his mom got to invite fewer people than my mom.

        • I’m sorry. It sounds like you’re doing everything right. I think K…in transition is 100% right when she says to frame it as something you two need to do to take the next step in your life together. If he’s like my husband, he might just hear that you’re stressing about flowers and think “huh, how could someone care so much about flowers” but if you explain that what’s really stressful is trying to make everyone in the family happy and having so much on your shoulders, he’ll get that and step up to take the weight off. (And maybe in 1900 young ladies could do all their wedding planning sans fiance, but weddings were much smaller events, young ladies lived at home with their parents and were therefore not running a household, and young ladies were not holding down 40+ hour jobs.)

        • In The Pink :

          So in 1985, we were constantly told “It’s Your Wedding, Do What You Want.”

          It became the motto between us and the best man…

          Both sides did what THEY wanted and informed us, the bride and goom, afterwards when it was too late to do anything about it. It still rankles both of us. There are so many things we wanted and had hoped for. In the long run, it was one day, tons of months prior, and now, a small percentage of our life. I wish you all the best and the ability to have SOME glorious memories!

          Family is just that family. Not your friends, not necessarily folks who will give you credence and the space to be yourself if it doesn’t fit their needs.

          For that, you have each other and your dearest friends.

          Oh gosh, sounds like my office-therapist chats…sorry.

    • I think there are two separate issues here – the planning itself seems to be difficult and you’re not getting a lot of support from your future husband. The other issue is the fact that he seems to think wedding planning (and potential other tasks) are ‘women’s work’ and not his responsibility.
      If it was truly just an issue of you need help planning and he’s not stepping up you may have success with sitting down with him and a list of tasks (picking a venue, hiring a florist, choosing a menu, etc.) and divvying them up. Sometimes men do better with a concrete list of action items instead of picking up on “hints” of you needing help. I know my husband did much better at helping me plan our wedding once I gave him set tasks to accomplish and let him know when they needed to be finished by. That was it – once I delegated something I let him handle it – and didn’t micromanage it.
      If you suspect that he will leave all ‘women’s work’ to you – like childcare arrangements, doctors appts, elder care, etc. than that is something I’d suggest you need to seriously discuss and possibly go to counseling about.

    • Merabella :

      I have to interject here on behalf of your FH. My mom was the crazy momzilla, a lot of times I just tried to ignore her and her behavior because I couldn’t handle the stress of confronting her about it. My poor Fiance (now husband) was very nice and just put up with it. We had long talks about it, and in part he didn’t feel like he could get in the middle because she is my mom.

      I don’t know if this is the case with your FH, but maybe give him a break in that area.

      In terms of him thinking the wedding planning is “womanfolk work”…

      I would sit down and have a serious conversation with him about how you feel. Don’t use fighting words like “You are SO lazy/uninterested/etc.”

      Try using statements like “When you let the tasks I’ve assigned you for wedding planning fall through the cracks, it makes me feel like you don’t care about our wedding and it hurts my feelings.”

      Weddings are truly one of the most stressful things in the world, and it is a good opportunity to work out your communications issues before you walk down the aisle.

    • associate :

      Just want to chime in/take the opportunity to vent to say that I also abhor wedding planning, and you are not defective. As to your fiance, make sure you are communicating in a way that works for you two what type of help you need from him. I would have also eloped by now if it wasn’t for the family pressure and deposits. We really want to marry each other, but this wedding stuff seems like a lot of bologna. I also actively recgonize the “white people problems” aspect of my wedding distress but it feels like real distress! Hang in there; everyone says it’s worth it the day of.

      • I prefer “first world problems” in this context, but I fully agree with the sentiment. :)

        • Totes McGotes :

          Agreed; I’d have +1’d her post so hard had she phrased it that way.

      • I hated planning my wedding, and especially all the crafting elements towards the end. I ended up tying about 200+ bows for programs and favors, etc.

        I’m lucky enough to have a mom with great taste who also happens to love to plan things. She took care of most of the big things, and I got to do all the little things which I liked much more. For me, the best part of the wedding was being married and not having to worry about making decisions about napkin and linen colors.

    • Just taking a moment to empathize – I’ve been engaged for a while, nearly a year, but we’ve really just started wedding planning and I honestly hate every minute of it. My mother is making it hell, none of the dates we wanted were available (for our venue), plus I’m already on edge waiting for bar results. Also we wanted like 50 people, and my mother has put 150+ on the contract. Just typing that out makes me want a drink ASAP.

      • Sounds like you guys need to fund the wedding yourself and cut out your mom’s influence.

    • I can only second what everyone else is saying here, and to add that I was exactly where you are right now a little over a year ago. Ignoring the situation will not make it better, and you shouldn’t feel like you need to shoulder this whole responsibility. I got pressured by my family into throwing a huge wedding, and then somehow got convinced I had to do all the work on my own. Big mistake. Delegate as much as you can. And, get that FH involved! You will enjoy your wedding, and your marriage much more if you do.

    • emcsquared :

      Parts of this sound so familiar – I didn’t want a big wedding, DH did, and everyone had an idea about what we *needed* to have at our wedding, and it all fell on me to carry out (and I hated/resented it greatly).

      I agree with the commenters saying you need to make other people responsible for the items they are imposing on you. And if your FH drops the ball on wedding planning tasks – you need to take that very seriously. My FH failed to accomplish any of the tasks I explicitly delegated to him (we were living together – they were written on a note on the refrigerator door, which I routinely taped to his mirror as a reminder). It was not limited to marriage planning and has become a theme in our marriage, and I’m just now starting to have some success cracking down on him treating me like his secretary.

      If he drops the ball, go to pre-marital counseling ASAP. Unless you are a much saner person than I was during wedding planning, you won’t have the energy or emotional capacity to facilitate a productive conversation.

      I hope you find a way to stay sane – I truly wish I had just scrapped the big wedding and done a picnic in my backyard. It would have been just as much fun and I think the first year of our marriage would have been happier.

      • Why couldn't we elope? :

        Yeah, that sounds about right. Your story definitely resonates with me, and I will try to be proactive on the “I’m not your secretary” front.

    • Stepmom re: driving and ACT preparing :

      I believe in “lead, follow or get out of the way.” Our marriage counselor originally taught it to us as a way to deal with my step-wife’s stonewalling (ie, taking so many months to decide whether my SD “was allowed” to meet with a college counselor that we almost missed the deadline).

      It works like this:

      1. Decide what you would like to do (ex: have salmon for the wedding dinner). (I appreciate this is overly simplified.)
      2. Tell X (FMIL, for your situation) that “We plan to serve salmon for the wedding dinner. If you would like us to serve something else, please let me know no later than Y date.” (Where Y date gives you enough time to consider having something else for dinner, consult with FMIL and/or the caterer or whoever and still decide without feeling rushed.”
      3. If FMIL responds, hear her out and still make your own decision.
      4. Then do it. It is your decision and you don’t need to be held hostage to anyone else’s emotional hijacking.

      It works really well for us. It is starting to work for SD (16) with her mom. I hope it will work for you.

      Then, of course, there is the idea of you making executive decisions on stuff that doesn’t need to be a consultation with FMIL.

    • SoCalAtty :

      That’s too bad! I planned my wedding for about 220 people by myself and had a really good time doing it. That said, I did a lot of event planning for a nonprofit for years and years so I had pratice. My husband and I paid for about 55% of the wedding, and my grandparents (the ones that raised me) paid for the rest – but just wrote me a check for it and said “have fun.” The in laws paid only for the rehersal dinner (which I try not to think about because we’re talking like $600 of a wedding that cost $40k plus…so WTH? Moving on…), and also said “here’s a check have fun.” It’s rough when someone else is paying, but maybe you can tell them to give you a list of things at the wedding that are really important to them, and then tell them, “because my work schedule is so busy, I’m going to have to deal with a lot of this over email and phone, so let’s agree on a plan for me to execute.” Something like that.

      My husband wasn’t much help either – but unless yours is one who is really good at event planning, you might not want him to be all that involved. When my husband was being totally uninvolved in the planning and noncommittal…I finally got really mad and said “why won’t you do any of this??!!” He finally admitted – he didn’t care, I was telling him everything I was doing and he knew that I was a great party planner and he would be happy with whatever I did.

      For guest lists – email everyone and say, “if I do not have your guest list by X date, there will be no seats for them because the venue requires a final headcount by [X date, but lie and make it like 30 days earlier than it actually is].” I was able to plan everything except choosing a venue (toured on weekends), flower arrangements (one trip to choose from samples he made up for me), dress (weekends), and cake tasting (another weekend). Everything else can be done over the phone or by email.

      There is a great book called “The Bride’s Book of Lists” that is really all you need. Look at it this way – you have to arrange for venue, food, drinks, flowers, transportation, cake, your dress, groom’s attire, music for ceremony, music for reception, and bridesmaids/groomsman attire. That’s like 10 things.

      All that being said, if you don’t have your heart set on a big weddings, and it sounds like FH doesn’t either, take those checks and either use it to put a down payment on a house or start a retirement fund and go elope. My Husband and I wanted a massive amazing wedding, and we got it, but it cost what the downpayment on a house would have! If both of us weren’t behind that 100%, it would not at all have been worth the money.

      • SoCalAtty :

        Just to add – dang it I wish I could be an event planner. So fun. Unfortunately lawyering is the only thing that will pay for my law school sized debt.

      • Why couldn't we elope? :

        Bought it! Thanks for the recommendation.
        You’re right on the 10 things, and we’ve checked off 5/10 of those. Maybe it isn’t so bad…

        I do wish that his parents would go with the “here’s a check good luck” approach. His mom made it clear that if her money was going towards something, she wanted control over how it was spent. She was honest about placing many strings on her money. I thought it wouldn’t be that bad because FH has always been so good at running interference with her. Life lesson learned.

      • Am I the only person left in the world who thinks if you want to have a big, extravagant party to celebrate your wedding, you should be able to pay for it yourself?? I think it is sad that you begrudge the contribution your in laws made because it apparently was not big enough to suit your tastes.

        • Why couldn't we elope? :

          I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree that I’m some sort of spoiled materialistic brat.The truth is that we can afford to get married, and we can afford to have a small, modest party all by ourselves. We’re grown-ups and can use our money to do whatever we want. The problem is that both of our families want to use the occasion of our marriage to have a family reunion, and because it was very important to them and they are very important to us, we agreed to their guest lists, money, and (most importantly) the strings that come with that money. Now that we’re really locked in, those strings are turning out to be really stifling, and I don’t think that is an uncommon experience for people who want to please their parents.

          The money is not the issue – the issue is that I feel steamrolled and like my time isn’t respected by either my intended or my intended’s mother. That deeply hurts and angers me, and makes me question my relationship and, yes, whether we should throw in the towel on having a big shebang and eloping.

          • Appealing Lawyer :

            Sorry if I posted my comment in the wrong place (not sure that I did though). My post was in response to the following comment:

            “The in laws paid only for the rehersal dinner (which I try not to think about because we’re talking like $600 of a wedding that cost $40k plus…so WTH? Moving on…),”

            You’ve got yourself in a tough situation. Your family offered to give money to help fund the party (not as a gift as I see it because gifts don’t come with strings). So you’ve basically acquiesced to having other people “co host” your wedding. I don’t envy you that.

    • e_pontellier :

      As far as post-wedding dealing with your MIL, maybe read this book: Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up’s Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents. It was recommended by other posters of c o r p o r e t t e, I recently purchased it because of problems I have with my MIL and mother, but haven’t read it yet.

    • papabear and I got married by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas. Have never regretted it. Best of luck!

      • That sounds by far like the best solution :-)! And eloper, see, it sounds like papabear is still around, so you might consider Elvis safely..

  11. Skin care question. Can anyone recommend a skintone evening/age spot reducing facewash or other product?
    I am considering DDF brightening cleanser but not sure if it’s worth the $38. I’ve finally gotten my adult onset acne under control but my skin is still not where I’d like it to be, esp. as I now also try to deal with aging in my 30s.

    • I got this in my birchbox, but haven’t tried it. I will report back if you ask again in 2 weeks!

      According to the derm, the only way to 100% get ride of scars is hydroquinone via rx. Other stuff can help, but that is the “fail proof” method.

      • It’s not really acne scars. Just uneveness, small age spots, and a couple of tiny pimples that never seem to go away no matter what I do.
        I’d love to hear your report on the DDF when you use it.
        To Sasha, I do use a mild retin a, but it hasn’t helped with this, just with pimples generally.
        I basically just want skin I don’t have to wear makeup to cover up!

      • Phelphsie :

        I’m using hydroquinone (several months a year ago, got sick of applying it, started again two months ago at new derm’s insistence) and seeing no results (it was the same for my mom), so while it’s worth a try, I wouldn’t call if fail-proof.

    • Retin-a or its generic, tretinoin, will. You can get it without a prescription now.

      • Is this true and is it still super-expensive? I have some Rx stuff, and of course insurance doesn’t pay so it was like $300 (which is a lot, but it lasts me over a year). I have seen various serums and moisturizers that have retinol/retin-A at places like Ulta. I’m wondering if they’re just as good. I guess I should check out Paula What’s-Her-Face. Not Deen.

        • Hahaha! *Snort.* Paula Deen. Now I have visions of a woman rubbing a stick of butter all over her face!

        • SF Bay Associate :

          Paula’s Choice :)

        • Yep, it is true. Brands like Roc aren’t real retin-a, you need one that lists tretinoin as the active ingredient and it’ll say right on the front of the package. Some of the brands are Obagi or A-ret. I’ve never seen them in a makeup store, but a dermatologist office will sell them at the desk with the eucerin and other lotions or you can get them online at places like amazon.

          • although that makes me wonder… if it is non-prescription, why don’t they sell it in makeup stores though? The receptionist at my derm sold Obagi to me without consulting the doctor and I’ve been buying it from amazon since.. hmm.

    • Constance Justice :

      I got it in my birtchbox this month, and it made me break out. I feel like that is probably because I am sensitive to sulf-anything and it has SLS. If that is a trigger for your acne, I’d skip it.

      Sorry I don’t have any helpful recommendations! I’m looking forward to other responses though!

      • Crappers, this wasn’t in my birchbox and I would have loved it!

        The only things I have used with any success are the whitening products from Dior and Sheseido, but both lines are pricey and I end up cheaping out when it’s time to buy more.

    • emcsquared :

      I used the DDF brightening cleanser in my Birchbox – for the most part it makes my skin lovely and glowy and even, but I have noticed an uptick in acne near my hairline and under my jaw. But it also makes my skin really tight and dry so I slather on a lot of lotion…so it’s not clear which thing is causing the acne.

      Also, it says to stay out of the sun for a long time after using it (maybe a week?) so I’ve sworn off it until it’s less beautiful outside.

      • I’ve used this cleanser before and it’s fine. I am very fair and have a few spots of hyperpigmentation on my cheek from childhood exposure. I didn’t find that it really lightened the spots, but did brighten my skin overall. You could get the same effect from using a similar cleanser (I use a Neutrogena one for acne and anti-aging.) If you’re really looking to lighten spots, I’ve found that Murad makes a lightener serum thing that is working pretty well for me. I apply it directly to the spots only after washing off my make up. I think it was pretty expensive (~$60) but I’ve been using the same bottle for about 6 months and am seeing results. HTH!

      • Just as an FYI, if you get acne around hairline and jawline with a new cleanser, it usually means you need to rinse better, because that’s where the suds like to hide when you splash the water on your face to rinse the cleanser off. :)

    • You should really try a glycolic cleanser or a lactic acid based one. I’m very dry, so I use a lactic cleanser at night, but many people with normal/oily skin can use glycolic. You don’t need to spend a lot of money on one, and you can probably get by using it only a few times a week.

  12. lawsuited :

    I’m so sorry this happened to you. It can be hard to fathom being unemployed despite great grades and other credentials and having done everything “right”, but it happens to lots of people (and it happened to me). If a firm doesn’t have work then they can’t afford to pay you even though you’re great, but you will find a firm that does have work and would prefer to hire someone with great credentials.

    If I were you, I’d move back to the major centre and reach out to EVERYONE you know, let them know you’re looking, and then they can help you network. I was in a similar situation to yours 6 months ago, and I was recommended for the job I recently accepted by a law school professor who knew I was looking. Be prepared for it to take time (it took 6 months for me) and keep positive by reminding yourself that you’re a great candidate and you just have to find the right firm.

  13. Dear Aggies :

    I am traveling to your great state this football season for the first time (welcome to the SEC) and would appreciate recommendations on places to eat/things to do/see in the College Station area. I’m a connoisseur of all things football and love learning about/experiencing other schools’ traditions.

    • Here’s my advice: go to Austin.

      The end.


      A Texas Longhorn

      • Ha ha Herbie. Love Austin.

      • Fellow Longhorn :


      • Oh so typical of a Longhorn. Seriously.

      • SAlit-a-gator :

        I like you even more now that I know you’re a Longhorn :-)

        ~ signed: Fellow Longhorn.

      • Ditto, signed a fan of a major, major UT rival. A&M? Ugh.

      • Horns up!

      • Not to totally out myself, but amen!

      • SF Bay Associate :

        I also vote Austin because it is awesome. I also happen to have lots of Longhorn friends.

      • Cornellian :

        In case anyone was wondering where I went to law and grad school… horns up!

      • Anon in ATX :

        \\m// Texas Fight! \\m//

      • Yep. There is nothing worth seeing in CS. Stay in Austin and make the drive for the game. Also, go to the town of Lockhart if you really want good BBQ. Rudy’s is a chain–it’s like saying Taco Bell has good Mexican.

        • I agree about not going to Rudy’s but there’s lots of good barbecue in College Station. J. Cody’s is my favorite. CJ’s is also good.

          It’s crazy to me that people say there’s nothing to do in College Station, particularly when the OP said she wants to experience our football traditions. We have lots of those, you really can’t deny. And have you heard of President Bush? Yeah, he has a library there. It’s a huge college campus with all of the college-y things to do around it, like eating good food and drinking. You really think she should stay three hours away and drive in just for the game? That’s insane.

      • Herbie's a Longhorn???! :

        now i love you even more than i thought possible.

    • Not an Aggie :

      But second the welcome to the SEC.


      14 and counting. . .

    • Ooooh, fun!!! Go to midnight yell. It’s at Kyle Field at midnight on Friday before the game. Spend some time on Northgate, especially the Dixie Chicken. It’ll be packed, but it’s fun. There’s a greasy pizza place next door that I love. Blue Baker is a great sandwich place. J. Cody’s has great barbeque. The George Bush Library is really nice. Campus is going to be a madhouse but walk around and see the Century Tree, Academic Plaza, the Memorial Student Center. Get to the game early and see the fighter jets fly over the stadium. Gosh, I love that place.

      • http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27300&ATCLID=205238057

    • I went to A&M as a grad student. I second the anon @ 3:26 p.m.’s suggestions. I also recommend checking out a barbecue place while you’re there, such as C&J or Rudy’s. Also recommend getting in on a tailgate on game day if possible.

      There are also some wineries in the area, such as Messina Hof, which could be nice to visit to get away from some of the craziness.

      • Definitely the barbeque per Melissa (love Rudy’s). There are some nice tex-mex restaurants in the Bryan area if you need to get away from the mass of students for a meal.

  14. Thanks everyone for the thread yesterday about everyone’s pump up/bad day/down songs. I now have a “pump up corpore$$e” spotify playlist I’ve been listening to all afternoon. I love how eclectic it is. If anyone wants to throw out their pumped up songs, I’d love to grow my list. :) Since I was reading the thread at about 9pm last night, so I didn’t add mine on – so here they are!

    Pump up: Lou Bega “We Makin’ Love”
    Bad day: Lily Allen “F*** You”
    Down: Taylor Swift “A Place in this World” and “Tied Together With a Smile”

    • K...in transition :

      How about inspiring songs?

      Garth Brooks’ Standing Outside the Fire and We Shall Be Free, Christina’s Stronger, G-dsmack’s Go Away, all come to mind!

      I wonder if there’s a place online to create an actual playlist, like p-ndora or something so we could all listen to such playlists!

    • Glad you liked it!

      Care to share the playlist? I know you probably don’t want to share the link (since it would out your name), but even just the full list would be good. Avoiding everyone doing the same work and all that. If not, no worries! (This was, to be honest, a motivation in my starting the thread. I want to add to my bad day, pump up, and down playlists!)

  15. Between my mom and me, we have a large collection (many many boxes) of family correspondence (letters between my grandparents, letters between my parents when they were dating, letters from my mom to me when I was in college, etc.). In addition to proper preservation (which I need to look into), what do we *do* with all this stuff? There is a lot of family history in the letters and they certainly reflect some people’s accounts of day-to-day life at certain periods in history, but does that mean I’m just supposed to store them forever? Suggestions?

    **As background, I get rid of almost everything that I don’t use, am the ultimate un-pack rat, and am not particularly sentimental. These letters are probably the exception, but that’s just because I can’t figure out what to do with them and throwing them away seems….wrong?

    • Could you scan them and have an online album to share with the fam. Or have them bound and put into a book?

      • This. I think it is really cool that your family managed to save all that correspondence and I cringe that it might get thrown away. You should try to have them scanned and bound in a book.

      • I’m interested to hear if anyone has had letters copied and bound into a book. I have the letters that my dad wrote his family when he was in the Navy (age 19-20). They are hilarious, and since he is no longer with us, I’d love to find a way to not only keep them but also to share them with my siblings.

    • Merabella :

      Are there historical societies in your area that would be interested in personal correspondence from certain time periods (WWII, post war, whatever)?

      I work at a University that has a strong History department and a great historical collection of letters, maybe see if they are interested. They can deal with the preservation aspect, and pick out the things that are worth keeping. A lot of grad students and post doc work people want primary sources to use as documentation for their work, and things like letters from that time period are anthropologically interesting to them as a way of looking into the past.

      Just a thought, and I’ve never actually tried any of these options, so take them with a grain of salt.

    • AnonInfinity :

      You could put them into albums and store them that way. I think it would take less room than the boxes?

      I might be a terrible person, but I throw away cards and letters and whatnot because I never go back and look at them again.

      • Merabella :

        I am the same way. My husband is the opposite. I found birthday cards from the 3rd grade from people he doesn’t even remember.

    • Archivist perspective :

      Unless one of your family members was historically significant in the development of your local town/county/state/or a university most historical societies or universities won’t find use for these items unless they adhear to the scope of their collection (i.e. you have letters about agricultural development during the post-WWII period which is relevant to that university). This prevents institutions from collecting TOO much stuff. There’s no harm in offering them up if you are willing to part with them, as they may take them, and you can build into a donor agreement that you can access them at any time or that they are on a long term loan instead of actually transferring ownership, etc…I would suggest preserving them in acid-free transparent sleeves, and putting them in a binder.

      • I’m so intrigued we have an archivist in our midst! Would love to hear more about what you do.

    • I would scan them and give them to other family members. My parents did this for a lot of old photos. It was great because my great-grandparents now have 10s of decendents and we can all have a (virtual) copy. For us, electronic preservation maintained the family history better than the physical material.

  16. Does anyone have tips for stopping a fidgety habit? I have a terrible habit of playing with my hair when reviewing written work or when I pause while typing. My hair is naturally wavy/curly so it already tends towards frizzy/unkempt/wild and my playing with it all day means by the end of the day it looks CRAZY and unprofessional. Not the look I’m going for when I start a new job in about a month. Thanks!

    • K...in transition :

      are you able to clip your hair back when you’re doing those tasks so it’s not within touching range? and/or pick up a worry stone to teach yourself to rub to keep your hand busy when you’re thinking?

      • My particular flavor of hair-playing involves isolating a strand from my hairstyle and running it through my fingers, so it’s almost worse if my hair is pulled back. If I didn’t re-clip my hair periodically, by the end of the day I would have a ponytail or the sides pulled back with a hundred strands sticking out in crazy directions. So having it pulled back isn’t a complete solution; in fact, I almost do better if my hair is down but I hate having it in my face and find it distracting. Admitting all of this is embarrassing — looking forward to changing this!

    • To piggyback on this question, does anyone have ideas on how to get an SO to stop annoying habits? My SO says “like” way too often (“so, like, I said to him . . .”). He also talks sometimes before he’s completed chewing his food. When I bring it up, he says I am nagging him, but I just want him to stop both habits. The first habit is annoying, the second is gross, and both seem like things that could affect his career.

      • AnonInfinity :

        I want the answer to this, too. Unfortunately, I think we just have to accept them when they’re really ingrained.

        My husband bites his nails, which I think is really really gross and bothers the cr*p outta me. The best I can do is ask him not to do it around me, and he really does try not to. I try to say it in a non-nagging way and also try not do annoying things around him.

        I want to tackle the “like” thing, but I can’t decide how to bring it up constructively.

        • e_pontellier :

          My DH bit his nails consistently until about a year ago. I asked why/how he stopped, and he said he just started taking the time to file his nails so that they never got long and jagged enough to bite. As far as practical arguments, you can bring up the germ factor…. eeewww

          • AnonInfinity :

            Re: germ factor. He’s a heath-care professional, so I definitely don’t need to remind him of that. I know. That fact makes it even more icky.

        • K...in transition :

          make a challenge… find something little that bugs him about you (or something that bugs you about you) and challenge him. Each choose something you love that the other doesn’t. Get 2 jars and have each put in a quarter every time one slips or keep a tally for x number of days or find another way to keep track.

          When it’s competitive, it’s fun, vs. nagging and whining or what might appear to be such from the other side who doesn’t see it as a big deal!

        • Sydney Bristow :

          I don’t know if it would help, but I’m reading a book right now called The Power of Habit and it goes into how habits are created. You might be able to find something that would help you change those habits.

        • Migraine Sufferer :

          hypnosis helps with nail biting. seriously.

      • I had the “like” habit, and here’s how I broke it:

        I asked my husband and son to interrupt me every time I said it, with the same question. Example:

        Me: So, like, I said to him
        Husband (interrupts) Did you LIKE say it to him or did you ACTUALLY say it to him?

        Me: So, I like went to the store
        Him (interrupts) Did you LIKE go to the store, or did you ACTUALLY go to the store?

        And so on. Every. single. time.

    • Not sure whether this is work-appropriate or would be exceedingly messy, but the way I got myself to stop biting my nails was to keep silly putty at my desk and play with it when I got the urge to bite. Yes, silly putty. Strange but it worked. I’ve also seen stress balls with memory foam instead of the less-flexible foam that they’re usually made out of – those are fun to play with too, and they may be more work-appropriate than silly putty :)

  17. K...in transition :

    Update on job stuff… though there have been no offers by anyone as of yet…

    I did the math between the aforementioned Job A (less enjoyable, 11k more/yr) and Job B (way more enjoyable, shorter commute, 6+ wks/vacation) and, after figuring out federal taxes, student loan payments, gas costs, and number of hrs per week (A requires being on-call 5-6 days/week, B has set hrs), the difference ends up being that Job A would pay me $1.80/hr more than Job B. For that price, it’s worth it to have the job I’d much more enjoy.

    Also, I’m going to take the advice of the hive, continuing to try to get into the VA (where benefits and money are major), even if it means leaving job A or B (if offered) shortly after starting. Thank you so so much for your advice!

    • K...in transition :

      Update to the update…

      just got an email, Job B offered me the position! Although, for financial reasons, I’m hoping to move over to the VA in a short amount of time, this is pretty exciting -though I admit, a part of me is totally scared to start somewhere new, especially having been out of work for 9 mos!

  18. Just FYI, we’re giving away a free blouse, if anyone is interested
    Enter til Sunday.

    Happy Weekend Corporettes!

  19. Ok… Long time lurker who could not hold it anymore… ( the comment below btw hehe)

    Just really want to thank the hive for being so inspirational and really awesome.

    Wishing you a super weekend!

  20. K...in transition :

    Wow, I’m all over this post… sorry for people sick of hearing my “voice!”

    Thinking about my working wardrobe since it’ll someday be time to work again (fingers crossed). I sort of have the same “uniform;” black, dark brown, or black pinstripe Editor’s pants, a solid color t-shirt or sweater, and a coordinating scarf (I have about 30, some fancier, some fun, etc.). Black socks and black shoes with a 1inch heel.

    What can I add that’s affordable, not so specific that someone would remember it if I wore it too often or for many years in a row, and that’s not so boring? (PS I was fine with the “uniform” until I started hearing about all the fun stuff in y’all’s closets… d*mn you! hehe)

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      K – email me at [email protected] I pulled out a few items to put on the clothing swap but I have been awful about taking pics and uploading. I think I have 2 things on there right now. I think they are your size. I’ll send them to you and if they don’t fit, you can throw them on the swap. They are biz-cas.

      • K...in transition :

        just posted above that I got offered Job B. They have a dress code: white collared shirt, black pants, sneakers. It sounds like most wear polo shirts… I hate polo shirts and regular collars but what choice do I have? oh no!

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          I had a job where I had to wear polos. I bought mine in the boys section at walmart. They were lined so they didn’t show the girls and they were bigger than the “sexy polos” in the ladies section but more fitted and cute than the men’s polos or older-lady-women’s polos.

        • SF Bay Associate :

          Lands’ End Canvas polos are pretty nice and are often on sale.

          • Lands End (non-Canvas) also has a really good selection, in a couple fabric types. They size generously. If you sign up for emails, they have frequent sale promotions. Also check locally for a Sears or Lands End Inlet for a chance to try on in the store. And if you order in the store, there shouldn’t be any shipping costs.

        • What size are you? I have some short sleeved white collared Loft shirts that are WAY too small for me, that I’d be happy to send.

          • K...in transition :

            I’m typically a medium, but depending on the fit and length, that might vary. Never shopped at Loft before to know what size I am there. I was figuring I’d hit goodwill and see if they have some things I can afford, but that’d be amazing, L, thank you!

          • What’s your email? I’ll go through some stuff saturday and email you what I have that might work!

          • K...in transition :

            munchkin 1616 at juno dot com

        • I have found a couple at Kohl’s lately that you might like.

          This one looks like it’s more of a tshirt fabric but it has a collar.

          I just got one of these shirts, but i sized up one size, so it doesn’t gape at the front, it’s more of a casual look than a real button-front shirt, but still looks great on my pear shape, hides the tummy pooch, etc. It’s sold out of most sizes on line, but i got mine in a store, maybe there’s a Kohl’s near you?


          I’m wearing this one right now, actually, its so comfy.

          I would look for what is often called a Camp Shirt. They are more comfy fabrics and cut than a ‘button-front’ but i think they are comparable to polo shirts, so they should be fine for that office.

        • i have a comment in moderation linking to stuff at Kohl’s. If you have one near you, you might check them out. I am so happy for you about the job though!!!

    • My uniform is a solid color or simple print dress and scarf, maybe with a cardigan if I’m cold. I know not everyone is a fan of dresses, but matching 2 pieces feels like it takes way less time than 3 when I’m fumbling around half-asleep in the morning; yet the perceived level of “polish” is so much higher.

    • Sounds like you’re not going to be wearing this, but jackets or blazers sound like they could easily fit into your “uniform” without being too boring.

      Same for nice, structured cardis.

  21. pentagonal Date :

    I was excited when my best friend asked me if I wanted to grab drinks at this great bar I’ve been meaning to go to. I instantly texted back. Then she responds saying her SO, her SO’s brother and wife, and another couple will be there so I’m welcome to bring someone. Well I don’t know if I have anyone I feel comfortable bringing. I’ve been on about 10 dates with this guy, but we aren’t yet official (although and we haven’t really done any group outings, so I’m not sure if it’s the right time to subject him to a pentagonal date. The friends are great, and my guy is very social too, but I’m just not sure. Oh, and while I was writing this post, my BFF text me again, saying that first everyone is going out to dinner. I kind of already agreed to go get drinks, and I don’t want to feel like I can never hang out with my BFF because she’s very serious about her BF, but I think I might just be awkward going without a date, and it might make my budding relationship seem a bit too serious too fast if I invite him. It might otherwise be a great stepping stone into exclusivity, but it seems kind of risky. My guy did invite me to go on a group outing with his friends during the day today, but I couldn’t go because I’m at work. Ugh

    • Throw it out there and see what he says. Ten dates seems like plenty of time to invite him to outings with your friends.

    • 10 dates? Invite him. You are overthinking this. Eventually you will need to know if he can hang out in a group with friends or a group with friends/strangers. This isn’t an invitation to a family reunion or a marriage proposal, it’s drinks and dinner.

    • I’m with the others – 10 dates definitely does not seem too early for a friend dinner & drinks date!

    • Agreed. I too think you are overthinking this. I’ve asked gentlemen out on group outings after far less dates. You like your friends, you like him. Even better if they are all together! If he likes you, he shouldn’t have a problem spending time with your friends, especially at something innocuous like dinner and drinks!

    • You are way overthinking this. Invite him. Or go by yourself! Hanging out with partnered people is never as awkward as you think it’s going to be.

  22. manomanon :

    I know I’m a little late to the game but I just got a job!!!!! Now I just need to buy a car and find a place to live
    Eeep! I’m practically bouncing out of my skin
    This is a great start to the weekend :-)

    • Congrats!!!

    • Awesome. I just got a job today, too.

      • SF Bay Associate :

        YAY BUNKSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      • Congratulations to both!

      • Yay, Bunkster!!

        • Good grief :

          Why would you only congratulate Bunkster, NOLA and Herbie? Doesn’t that seem a tad exclusive and b*tchy?

          • Sorry! Didn’t mean to be rude and I thought about that later, but it’s just that Bunkster has been through so much between her horrendous former boss then losing her new job so soon after getting it and everything else. But congrats to both!

          • NOLA and Herbie are some of the nicest people here. Actually, most everyone is nice; sometimes it’s hard in these long threads to get the reply in the right place and I’m sure they were happy for the original poster, but dayum Bunkster has had a craphole of a time finding a new job, then she got laid off…etc.

            Congratulations to everyone on their new jobs. I’m gonna get myself a new one, too.

          • Good grief: wow.

            Let me explain what happened here.

            I tried to congratulate manomanon. But since I’d typed out “congrats” upthread, my post got rejected. I was just about to shut down my computer and leave work, and I thought, “I’ll do it later.” And now I’m back and about to do it.

            So cool your jets, lady. Have some fondue or maybe a lady garden party.

      • Congrats to everyone! This is the weekend thread of awesome job news. Love it.

        • Yes, I think we should have an awesome thread of good job news every single week!!
          Seriously, congratulations to all the newly-jobbed, may you all be deliriously happy with them.

      • Congratulations manomanon and Bunkster! Lots of good job news today!

      • Well done, Bunkster! Congratulations :)

      • Well done, Bunkster!

      • Congratulations everybody!!!!!!

    • Congratulations! Keep on bouncing!

    • SF Bay Associate :


    • K...in transition :

      you and me. right now. stop what we’re doing. and DANCE… yay!

    • Congratulations to you both! That’s fantastic.

    • Waaaaaaahhooooo! Congratulations, manomanon!

    • Congrats!

    • Congratulations!

      And I love the handle. Makes me think of the song, which was an inside joke with my law school roommate.

    • Thanks everybody!!!
      Congrats Bunkster and K in Transition!!!!! So much job happiness this weekend!!!
      Bunkster- I’m so glad things are working out (esp away from the terrible horrible no good very bad boss)
      K- those students are so very lucky to have you!

      I hope everyone else who is looking for a job finds one soon!

    • Late for it, but congratulations! Where are you looking (since posters here might be able to help)?

      • on an island I don’t actually want to name because it is so small – thanks for the offer though!

  23. Totes McGotes :

    Am I the only one who thought this handle meant she was going on a date to the Pentagon?? That’s a weird-ass date…

    Just ask him if he’s interested. If not, you can go, but if you think you won’t be comfortable with the couples, have an excuse ready to duck out early. Or say you’re not available until drinks time, you already have dinner plans.

  24. Someone was looking for college major/career advice for a sibling this week. I just saw this and thought of you. Hope you’re still reading.

    • SoCalAtty :

      It may not have been this week, but I’ve had the much agonized over brother issues – so I sent this on to him. Thank you!!!

    • SAlit-a-gator :

      Thanks for posting. I’m not the OP, but I just forwarded this to my cousin who needed something like this.

    • Recent grad :

      I was the OP. THANK YOU! Thank you! Just one more reason why I love this blog.

      • Glad to help!

        I wish I could have read that article and book myself when I was in undergrad. Not that I don’t like being a lawyer, but I think I would have just majored in economics or civil engineering instead now.

  25. K...in transition :

    Specific request:

    white collared tops? Thanks!

    • If they don’t all have to match, I’d go to consignment shops and Salvation Army. I’ve had good luck getting high quality white blouses for not a lot of $$$ at both.

      Congrats on the new job!!

    • Not a Polo, but with a collar :


    • momentsofabsurdity :

      K – your dress code is my worst nightmare! I look awful in most collars, especially polo shirts. Stark white isn’t my best look either. That said, this is versatile, looks long enough to tuck, and is well priced:


      plus it’s got great reviews. I also recommend investing in a bunch of nude-for-you bras, considering all the white you’ll be wearing!

    • I like this one because it requires no ironing and no tucking:


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