Weekend Open Thread

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

Even though my core color is black, even I feel like a floaty, flirty white top is a good thing to have in your wardrobe. (I also feel like getting a trendy white top is a great way to start to get ready for spring!) I like this boho top to wear with skinny jeans — the ladder stitch, the filmy arm fabric, the choker detail — I like it all. It’s machine washable, too, and available at Amazon in sizes XS–XL for $60. Ella Moon Women’s Shylah Long Sleeve Choker Top

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Comments

  1. Anonymous :

    I need a really, really, stupidly easy budgeting software. I don’t make a lot of money and my finances aren’t complicated, but I’m so dumb when it comes to numbers and money. Help?

    This is probably stupidly obvious but I would like software where I can tell it how much I get paid on what days rather than looking at a monthly total for budgeting. With my two paychecks a month, one mostly goes towards rent while the other is for everything else. I split up what bills to pay depending on what paycheck it is. So I basically manage my money in two week chunks rather than by month. Is there something that can help me with this?

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Have you tried Mint? I think it’s customizable in such a way you can make that two-week budget happen.

    • Anonymous :

      You Need A Budget. YNAB. It’s really set up to only let you budget the money you have (so, two weeks at a time). It can take a little getting used to (but they have free online classes/help for that), but it’s customizable for categories of spending.

      • +a million. YNAB is amazing. I also get paid twice a month and it’s super easy to handle the two paychecks.

        One thing that I wish I had figured out sooner, when I was first adjusting to two paychecks per month instead of one: set half of each paycheck toward rent, rather than most/all of one. it keeps everything a lot more even through the month and helps me avoid feeling like I’m in feast or famine mode with spending.

        • Sloan Sabbith :

          Yes, this. I just immediately take half out per paycheck using automatic transfers. I don’t even see the $.

      • Yes, YNAB. You’ll realistically spend a few hours getting it set up (start with a free webinar! They’re great and really really helpful!) – likely an hour or two the first time you use it, then another hour around the time of your second paycheck when you realize you’ve goofed something and need to troubleshoot it. Once you’ve gotten over the learning curve, it is SO EASY. It doesn’t actively help you find ways to save – instead it helps you understand how much money you actually have, so that you can make better choices that align with your priorities. For me, that has resulted in me consciously choosing to spend less in some areas to add more to savings, AND feeling less guilty about the “guilty-pleasure” spending I do because I just plan for it now (eg starbucks or yet another pair of flats).

        • also also also. You’re not dumb. You just need to learn a system that works for you. Those are two different things.

    • wildkitten :

      EveryDollar is much simpler than YNAB.

      • I’ve never used YNAB so can’t compare, but Every Dollar is very user-friendly and has helped me a lot. Consider looking into Dave Ramsey’s books or baby steps concept as a starting place. I don’t agree with everything completely but it has helped me to manage my money more wisely … I am a Program Director in nonprofit arts education and do not make much money either.

    • Get a husband and stop fretting like a helpless Nellie! He can handle it!

    • I am very wary of programs that draw directly from your bank account information. I use Quicken, and enter the information manually. It really helps me track my spending and budget better.

  2. I love white blouses with interesting details. A white blouse with jeans, fun earrings and fun shoes would be my weekend/fun uniform, if it wasnt so hard to find/afford/wear/maintain a wardrobe of white blouses. Inevitably, I get coffee on my favorite ones, or they get dingy /gray after wearing/washing for a few months. But when I have a good white blouse on, with great jeans, I feel like the best version of myself – simple, casual, snazzy, comfortable, and classic!

    • Anonymous :

      This is a hickey-hider, no?

      • My friend Laurie had a choker like this in law school b/c she literaly went out with guys who did that to her neck all the time. She said it was because she wore White Shoulders perfume which men could NOT resist. I tried it and it was true, but the guys in law school would jump (and if they could HUMP) literaly any woman who would talk to them for more then 30 second’s! Men then were so anxius to have s-x with us that they would do almost anything we asked them too. I was NOT one of those women, tho, b/c I did not want some smelley guy slobbering all over me when I needed to study and be fresh the next morning for class. FOOEY on that!

    • Anonymous :

      I also love white blouses. Oxygen bleaches actually treat organic stains and keep them looking white longer or again

  3. Shopping help :

    Shopping help. I need to find a maid of honor dress in either celadon or peach. My friend and I are co-MOH and the bride has said she doesn’t care if we match or if we’re just complementary. A-line with fitted waist is most flattering on both of us and we don’t care if it’s long or short, although it will be an outdoor mountain wedding this summer and short may be more practical. If anyone has some spare time to help me find some candidates (or suggest stores to check out), I would be so grateful!

    • https://dessy.com/dresses/bridesmaid/after-six-bridesmaid-style-1502/?size=custom_made&colorid=10&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&utm_campaign=adlcntpla&gclid=CjwKCAiAtdDTBRArEiwAPT4y-3po9GF7zNNvKsKV7-lGdpHAdft3OFcA3_LpIENJxa03fV1DzRSCtxoCeZwQAvD_Bw#.WnS6qqinHDc

    • Anon in NYC :

      I like this in coral: https://tinyurl.com/y9ytndyb

      I also like this in the Hunter green color, but it might be too dark: https://tinyurl.com/ybxplmtb

    • Don’t know what your budget is, but BHLDN has a few dresses that fit your specifications. This is lovely:
      https://www.bhldn.com/bridal-party-view-all-dresses/bryce-dress-champagne/productoptionids/b8df1319-232a-4c6f-a05d-cdf74da57ed1

    • Anonymous :

      David’s Bridal?

    • Rainbow Hair :

      What’s your skin tone? And your friend’s? Both of those colors could be challenging on some skin… just asking so I can imagine in detail :)

      • Rainbow Hair :

        BHLDN has a number of dresses that might work — I wish there were a way to sort by color family though!

      • Shopping help :

        Ugh, yeah, I don’t think the colors are going to flatter either of us – we’re both fair-skinned/pale and she has blond hair and I have brown hair.

        • Anonymous :

          You might be surprised. I’m so pale I have trouble finding foundation (also, blonde, blue eyed) and I look great in some peaches. Same with gold and champagne. Beige is my nemesis though. I think maybe it has something to do with the red/yellow balance in your skin vs the clothes.

        • Sloan Sabbith :

          I am pale and coral is totally one of my power colors. It makes me look brighter and happier and all around less like a ghost. It’s possible. Pink undertones are best- something more in the range of Pantone 16-1543 or 1545. Peach itself tends to wash me out.

          • Rainbow Hair :

            Oooh me too Sloan! I’ll forget for like years, then put on something coral and look like a million bucks!

    • What really is celadon?!? :

      I don’t think the green is quite right, but here’s what I could find while ignoring work:

      http://us.asos.com/yas-tall/yas-tall-knot-detail-strapless-maxi-dress/prd/9131081?clr=green&SearchQuery=&cid=8799&gridcolumn=4&gridrow=6&gridsize=4&pge=1&pgesize=72&totalstyles=48

      http://us.asos.com/amelia-rose/amelia-rose-embellished-top-maxi-dress-with-frill-sleeve-detail/prd/9014516?clr=sagegreen&SearchQuery=&cid=8799&gridcolumn=2&gridrow=16&gridsize=4&pge=1&pgesize=72&totalstyles=158

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/ml_monique_lhuillier/grapefruit_spritz_sheath

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/shoshanna/katrina_blouson_dress

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/laundry_by_shelli_segal/coral_hudson_gown

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/allison_parris/coral_marilyn_gown

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/badgley_mischka/mint_dream_gown

      https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/shoshanna/mint_beaux_dress

      • What really is celadon?!? :

        https://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/women-women-dresses-formal/Sleeveless-Beaded-Gown/1000259747?colorId=NS1003520&pos=1:31&N=1285552106

        https://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/women-women-dresses/Blaze-Gown/1000183067?colorId=NS1003577&pos=1:125&N=3784554090+0

        https://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/women-women-dresses/V-neck-Soutache-Dress/1000322408?colorId=NS1003577&pos=1:129&N=3784554090+0

    • Baconpancakes :

      If you can do celadon, I’d go with that. Much easier to find a flattering shade for pale people. Here’s some I like across the style spectrum, depending on how the bride is interpreting celadon:

      http://us.asos.com/asos/asos-premium-lace-insert-pleated-maxi-dress/prd/9076150?clr=mint&SearchQuery=&cid=17245&gridcolumn=1&gridrow=1&gridsize=4&pge=1&pgesize=72&totalstyles=19

      http://www.davidsbridal.com/Product_bridesmaids_mint-green-bridesmaid-dresses_short-strapless-mesh-dress-with-sweetheart-neck-w10953

      https://www.modcloth.com/shop/sale/adrift-on-elegance-a-line-dress/152556.html

      http://www.davidsbridal.com/Product_sleeveless-bridesmaids-dress-with-allover-lace-f18031_all-bridesmaid-dresses

    • Shopping help :

      Thanks so much!!! There are some great contenders here!

    • christineispink :

      Not sure what the stock is like now but Union Station was selling off their entire inventory. My bestie/bride chose the coral/blush/peach Emma for $50 (she had worn the pink Emma in my wedding 6 months ago!).

  4. re-posting from Moms page -- mean girl @ school :

    I posted this on the mom’s page earlier and it went a little sideways. Since we’ve all been students, maybe some of you have thoughts? FWIW, I grew up in a tougher town in the northeast where kids routinely actually fought; I was a giant of a child and had one problem one time in fourth grade and that was the end of that (and that person is my FB friend now although we don’t actively keep up with each other). Pretty sure that that isn’t market for how things are done now.

    Here goes:

    My kid has a mean girl in her elementary school class. Like says mean things just to be mean (you have no friends; no one likes you). This is really crushing for my kid but she and I talk about this and I don’t think it needs to go beyond that. [E.g., We’ve pointed out that when I say true things, you can tell if they are true or not. And if a person says things, even if they are hard to hear (and true), a person can say things with love (your fly is down, you need deodorant) or to be mean. Consider the speaker and the intent before deciding if you want to ignore the person as a meanie. To quote Taylor Swift, Haters gonna hate.]

    Lately, though, the girl has become a hair-puller and a head-hitter (maybe more of a slap than a hit). We haven’t had this before. Kid isn’t sure if the teacher knows / sees. What do I do next? If it matters, this is our neighborhood public school in a bigger city in the SEUS, so a part of me feels that it’s ignorable if it doesn’t land the school on the 11:00 news.

    • Anonymous :

      How has the teacher reacted? I would go to the teacher when the verbal stuff started but I also went to a small public school where the teachers didn’t put up with that kind of stuff. Would 100% be looking to the school to institute appropriate discipline if it has escalated to phyiscal.

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t have kids, but my sense is that mean words are best ignored but you need to involve the teacher if there’s anything physical, including slapping or hair pulling.

      • Definitely call the teacher now this girl is being physical. If the teacher doesn’t do anything, call the principal.

        • Elegant Giraffe :

          Yes. I work in education. It’s…unusual…that the teacher hasn’t noticed or addressed this yet. The teacher either has poor radar or is willfully ignoring. In any case, you need to involved administration from the start.

    • Anonymous :

      The kids need to bring it to the attention of the teacher. Not sure how old these kids are, but I probably wouldn’t get involved unless the teacher knows and isn’t doing anything.

      • Anon 3:06 :

        I’m interested in that you said the kids should bring it to the teacher. I would bring it to the teacher myself for past incidents – probably via email to start a record of how the school did or didn’t respond, and encourage kid to immediately report future incidents.

        • Anonymous :

          Maybe I grew up more like the Op, in a different time, but I feel like getting involved so quickly doesn’t allow your children to learn to self-advocate. Plus I feel like it can come off as combative, like you’re accusing the teacher of doing nothing when they haven’t even had a chance to react because they didn’t know.

          • Anonymous :

            But you don’t have to accuse the teacher of doing nothing – just tell them what your kid experienced and you thought they should know about it so it can be addressed. Teachers can’t know everything that goes on if no one tells them.

          • Please suggest that your daughter talk to her teacher and tell her what’s going on. If nothing is done, get involved. This is an age-appropriate way for your daughter to start learning how to be a self-advocate.

    • What grade are we talking about here? We are in 1st grade and there’s still a little bit of scuffling that goes on when tempers flare and impulse control fails. Also, the comments are starting among boys that so and so hates you and I’m his best friend. I think it’s worth reaching out to the teachers and saying basically what you’ve said here- hey, we are handling the words, but it’s escalating some and I wanted to let you know.

      • re-posting from Moms page -- mean girl @ school :

        Third grade.

        So far, my kid has (per the teacher previously before the hitting) been good re saying Knock it Off to the mean girl. I had no idea that anything was going on (and IME this usually works with bullies — they move on when they meet even weak resistance).

        When my kid told me re the latest, she was very hesitant and I could tell that it was really bothering her (and her not being sure re the teacher was a concern).

        • I’d probably say something to the teacher then. I’m guessing the reason that the teacher doesn’t see it is that this girl has figured out a way to be sneaky about it.
          There was a girl bully in my 4th grade class growing up and she was vocally/physically cruel to both the boys and the girls in the class. It was awful This was in the 80s before the bullying awareness really took off in schools so I don’t remember it being handled very well.

    • Anonymous :

      I’d definitely encourage your daughter to report this to the teacher, playground monitor, etc. If the teacher doesn’t seem to be halting this, I reach out personally. Still no progress? I’d absolutely encourage your daughter to get right up in this girl’s face and say a loud voice “don’t you ever touch me again or you will regret it,” and mean it.

      I think it’s wonderful we don’t have playground brawls like I remember from my school days, but I think it can be a mistake to socialize kids to always involve an adult. They may well find themselves needing to defend themselves someday, either as adults or as children. It’s not a bad lesson to learn.

    • When my daughter was in 2nd or 3rd grade, a boy in her class kicked her as they were walking home from school. I think he was trying to show off to older kids, but I didn’t hesitate to give a heads up to the teacher. The physical part goes beyond she said/she said, so the teacher can keep an eye out both for my kid and to see if it is happening on a larger scale.

      Don’t make a big deal out of it, but definitely report it.

    • I cannot believe you/she haven’t reported this to the administration. No one should be putting their hands on your daughter. EVER. My son is in 4th grade and there is a zero tolerance policy for this sort of bullying at his school. Yes, you need to teach your child to ignore the words. But hair-pulling and hitting are another story. Even if the teacher didn’t see it, someone else did, even if it’s another student. Don’t wait until your child is seriously injured until you do something about this.

      • re-posting from Moms page -- mean girl @ school :

        The hesitancy is that I don’t know what has been happening, just one side of the story.

        My wanting to involve the teacher is that she may truly not know (maybe it is at recess, maybe it is in specials or at lunch, etc.). And in a 0 tolerance environment, if my kid can’t take one day and reacts in kind, she may be the one trouble (esp. with no context of the prior events). That is what I really don’t want (that and from hearing from mean girl that my kid doesn’t deserve to be treated better, she believes it and tolerates this (where I had thought she had been succesfully standing up to the mean girl (which I previoulsy found out about after the teacher mentioned it at the standard go-over-the-report-card conference that they do every fall)).

        • Elegant Giraffe :

          It’s not your job to figure out what’s happening on the other side. That’s the teacher and/or principal’s job. Kids should absolutely stand up to bullies and learn to advocate for themselves, but this is a step beyond that. Contact the school.

        • If you are worried about your day getting in trouble for retaliating, the danger of that is greater if you do nothing and this girl keeps hitting your daughter. If the bully is sneaky and manipulative, your daughter is the one who will get caught and punished the very first time she strikes back. (This happened to my daughter with verbal harassment—there was a kid who was making fun of her on a daily basis, and I never heard anything about it until the principal called to tell me she was in trouble for hurling an insult back at the aggressor.)

          You need to teach your daughter to say, loudly and firmly but not in a hysterical way, “Stop hitting me.” Loudly enough for the teacher to hear. Every time. You also need to contact the teacher and/or the principal and report what your daughter has told you about the verbal and physical bullying, then ask them to investigate.

        • Anonymous :

          Stop it. Stand up for your child. Call the teacher. Quit this nonsense justification.

          • Anonymama :

            Yeah I cannot imagine a teacher who wouldn’t want to know if someone was getting their hair pulled in the classroom. Unless you have reason to believe it’s a terrible teacher, communicate with her!

  5. I would love a plus size rec for something similar. I am not about the choker thing but the length and flowy-ness I like.

    • Maybe something like this?

      https://www.talbots.com/online/plus-size/blouses-and-shirts/white/lantern-sleeve-linen-popover-prdi44467/N-10157+4294966752?conceptDim=4294966550&selectedConcept=Woman&isConceptFirst=true

    • This one is very similar

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/inc-international-concepts-plus-size-bell-sleeve-blouse-created-for-macys?ID=5282042&CategoryID=34048#fn=COLOR%3DWhite%26SIZE%3D%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D1854%26ruleId%3D87%7CBOOST%20SAVED%20SET%7CBOOST%20ATTRIBUTE%26searchPass%3DmatchNone%26slotId%3D30

    • Also

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/style-co-plus-size-ruffled-sleeve-top-created-for-macys?ID=5368467&CategoryID=34048#fn=COLOR%3DWhite%26SIZE%3D%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D1854%26ruleId%3D87%7CBOOST%20SAVED%20SET%7CBOOST%20ATTRIBUTE%26searchPass%3DmatchNone%26slotId%3D3

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/calvin-klein-plus-size-pleated-neck-blouse?ID=4954346&CategoryID=34048#fn=COLOR%3DWhite%26SIZE%3D%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D1854%26ruleId%3D87%7CBOOST%20SAVED%20SET%7CBOOST%20ATTRIBUTE%26searchPass%3DmatchNone%26slotId%3D25

      https://www.macys.com/shop/product/jessica-simpson-trendy-plus-size-padma-cold-shoulder-top?ID=5455047&CategoryID=34048#fn=COLOR%3DWhite%26SIZE%3D%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D1854%26ruleId%3D87%7CBOOST%20SAVED%20SET%7CBOOST%20ATTRIBUTE%26searchPass%3DmatchNone%26slotId%3D47

      • Thank you! I really like the Calvin Klein one. It looks like mmlafleur but obviously at a much better price!

  6. Recommendations for Stockholm? :

    Particularly interested in budget restaurants and cafes, or pretty sights. Museums I have covered

    • I asume you have done the main stuff, then:
      Södermalm island: first you go to the Katarina view point and from there a super pretty coastline walk and cossy caffes and restaurants. If you liked “Millenium” books a lot of the locations are around there. From
      Sturekatten: really cossy old style caffe and cake place.
      “dagens lunch” o “dagens rätt” are the clue for the lunch deals and you can ask for tap watter ” kranvatten”
      Saluhall market: full of stalls where you can eat at reasonably price.
      http://www.kungshallen.eu/ a kind of food hall full of different restaurants, the swedish one quite good (and cheap)
      And stroll up and down. Lovely place.

  7. Small law pay raise? :

    Posted this on the morning thread but I think it had mostly died down by the time I posted so I’ll repost here. Has anyone had experience asking for a raise in small/midlaw where you don’t have performance reviews?

    I’m at a firm of 11 attorneys, 6 partners and 5 associates including me. The other associate in the transactional group gets paid on sort of a “earn what you bill” basis so he can have more flexibility to travel, as does the only other female associate so she can have flexibility with her two small kids. The litigation head actually hired me and set my salary/benefits because we’d worked together frequently when I was general counsel for one of his clients, but I do 90% of my work for the transactional head, who was not involved in setting my salary. We have an office manager who deals with HR, benefits, and such but isn’t involved in setting pay. I’d like to ask for a raise, and/or maybe tuition assistance with an LLM, but I don’t know who to even talk to. I’ve also never asked for a raise outside of a formal performance review system so that doesn’t help – the informality of it makes me feel like I need to have been pretty much perfect in my work for a while before asking, and it feels harder to ask when I’m still newer (1.5 years) and learning – under a formal review system I’d probably have gotten a certain percentage based on achieving the metrics, but to ask on an ad hoc basis I feel like I need to present an extraordinary case for it that I’m just not sure I have yet. Who should I talk to? How should I address it? Is my imposter syndrome costing me money here or is it better to wait till I feel more solid about presenting a case for it?

    • My understanding is that a small law firm is a completely different kind of animal – I wouldn’t expect regular raises and I would expect an increase to be tied to business you bring in. If you’ve done that, then I’d approach the person who hired you about your compensation. The things you’re seeking are things that a bigger firm or corporation might offer, I don’t see why a small firm would.

  8. Intern Hiring Help :

    I hope I don’t get blown up for this. I’m trying to be thoughtful and fair at the same time…but I could use some advice.

    We have four intern spots at my boutique finance firm for this summer – we are in the Very Specialized Widget industry. Three are filled by friends/family referrals – all are thoroughly vetted; no gimmes for anyone, so the candidates are qualified but they only got to us because of personal networks. There is a program in place by a General Widget industry group in our city that is aggregating resumes of minority college students who simply don’t have the family connections or personal networks to put them on our radar. The objective of this program is to bridge the very blatant opportunity gap that exists in General Widget industry.

    The resumes we have are not bad, per se – they’re students at great schools in the area. But, none are ‘qualified’ by our standards. None have prior internship experience in the General Widget industry. or any meaningful experience in our work apart from coursework (ie: might have taken a single class in Widget studies, but they’re not a member of the Widget Club at their school – a club we know exists and many candidates are/were a member of).

    The lack of experience of prior internships and lack of potentially even knowing how important it could be to be a member of Widget Club for resume purposes could be a function of the opportunity gap. On the other hand, we’d be relaxing our hiring standards to take one of these resumes ‘just because’ they’re from this initiative program.

    How would you think about the right approach forward with these 2 or 3 candidates?

    • I think it is great to give people opportunitie’s if they have no prior experience, but you should NOT sacrifice quality. The fact they are at great schools is a plus, assuming they have good skills. All to many times, people are put in places just b/c of their connections (such as relatives), and they are dummies who get jobs b/c they know the boss. That stinks to. In your case, your candidates are not experienced, but that should NOT be a show stopper IF THEY HAVE BOTH BRAINS AND INITIATIVE. If they do not, you should NOT hire them. My mother told me she once was in a HOBSON’s choice. They told her in an interview that she needed experience to get the job, but she said how can I get experience if I can’t get a job. She did get the job, but b/c she was SMART! She was NOT entitled and did NOT act in a way that would lead the interviewers to think she felt entitled to get the job b/c of an “opportunity gap”. These days, a lot of mileanials just expect you should hire them b/c they have a degree, but guess what, many of them are completely unqualified and do NOT have initiative b/c their parents coddeled them. FOOEY on them! Mason was like this, and all he was good for was carrying my pump’s to court and having s-x with Lynn on the conference room table! DOUBEL FOOEY!

    • Anonymous :

      Why not interview some of these people before judging? Also for an internship, if the reason you feel they’re unqualified is because they haven’t had a similar internship in the past, how in the world would anyone ever get to the point of that first internship?

      • Anonymous :

        “How in the world would anyone ever get to the point of that first internship?”

        The answer to this is via family connections – that’s why there is a need for programs like this that help people get a foot in the door and a chance to prove themselves even if they don’t have the right family connections.

        • Anonymous :

          It could be like interviewing in law, where you just want the d*mn job. Any job. I have loans to pay back.

          Somehow you have to tailor your pitch to: I can do tax law and like tax law and have been a VITA volunteer for years . . . so that you get hired for a job in tax. Sometimes people pitch for anything and are a bit clueless for what the person needs to hear to chose you vs someone else (or show you’re serious about City A or City B).

          If the people were in the Widget Club, no internship might not be important (if they can say: was shift manager at Bojangles 40/hours/week while taking night classes); but lack of either is what seems to be the problem.

          • Anonymous :

            Maybe my opinion of college clubs isn’t that great, but at my school the clubs didn’t really do anything other than exist so that people could list them on their resumes. There would maybe be a few information sessions from companies, but in practical experience being part of a club had no real tangible benefit other than being able to put it on your resume.

          • Anonymous :

            But it’s a way of signalling interest, and if you don’t signal, you don’t signal (esp. since they are sort of a joke — you could sign up and never go and you are still signed up).

            If I wanted to hire for Big4, I’d look for the Accounting Club kids, b/c I can’t realistically interview all of the kids or even the business majors. Give me something b/c it’s just a volume issue to get down to a mangeable sample size.

            So give the kids a hint: join the d*mn Widget Club if you want to work with Widgets. Woody Allen was right — 80% of success is just showing up (or signing up). It’s not that hard. If you open the door, they still have to walk through it.

          • Anonymous :

            Eh, if someone I’m trying to hire says that they’re interested in Widgets even though they’re not a member of the Widget Club, I’m ok with believing them.

    • Anonymous :

      Do you think that having been in a club or taken two classes in this subject instead of one makes a difference in the quality of work the intern would do? (honest question). Are the interns given substantive work or are they kind of office gophers? In general I think if you can find interns who are really sharp and have a genuine interest in learning your field that their incoming knowledge doesn’t matter that much…

      • +1 agree

        One function of having connections in the Widget Industry is having the opportunity to ask those connections for advice on your resume before you actually submit yourself for a job. People without connections might not know what to highlight in their experience. It may not mean they’re not qualified so much as they haven’t gotten as much good advice on how to sell themselves.

        • Anonymous :

          “People without connections might not know what to highlight in their experience.”

          This matters so much. Two female scientists were recently hired at DH’s workplace. One (the white one) ended up on an entirely different pay grade because her parents had been research scientists in the same org nd she knew how to tailor certain key words/descrptions that were crucial to job classification which bumped her into the next pay grade. DH was temporarily in a manager role and was able to get the second scientist (WOC) an opportunity to catch up based on an early review of her classification. First scientist will likely always be slightly ahead but it will close the gap a bit.

    • Two suggestions, no real solution:

      (1) Interview at least two of the top candidates from the incentive program and give them a chance. If you’re convinced that they are not qualified after talking to them, let them know what to do to become qualified for next year. Give them your contact info and encourage them to reapply with an updated resume.

      (2) Send feedback to the General Widget industry group to let them know what you are looking for in a candidate. Ask them to share the information with the students in their program.

      • I like these suggestions. I’d also add, interview the top candidates and if you find that they’re lacking in some fixable way (not as familiar with the vocabulary as you’d like, need to work on math skills, etc.), hire them but ask them to work on those skills before the first day of work, whether that be through coursework, resources you give them, etc.

        I work in a specialized industry that a) I knew nothing about before entering and b) routinely hire interns who know little or nothing about the industry before entering. It all works out fine. Focus on the person, not just the skill set, because the right person can overcome any resume deficiencies and blow you away.

    • Anonymous :

      Lack of internships is a known barrier. Exactly the kind of barrier the program who is sending you these kids is trying to overcome. You don’t have time for unpaid internships if you’re working close to full time hours to pay for school. Lack of internships means you don’t get paid jobs and the opportunity gap persists. Pick the best 5 resumes and interview them. Hire one at least.

      • +1 You also may not have time to join a club at school. Wanting a club and/or previous internship seems like you are really limiting yourself to a specific subset of candidates.

        • Well, we are, and by design. That’s why I am struggling.

          Interns do substantive work. They have to come in with working knowledge of our vocabulary and the math we do, let alone a specific desire to do Specialized, not General, Widget work.

          I know it sounds bizarre, but it’s a model that works for us well.

          • Anonymous :

            So interview the candidates who have substantive course work in the area. Presumably they would have the vocab and math from coursework.

            By looking beyond academic coursework, you are automatically going to screen out less advantaged candidates.

          • By design, you want to hire interns that already have the opportunity and connections to have already interned, the time to join clubs, and the advisors to help tailor their application materials. That’s a choice you can make. Of course, you’re stuck with interns with connections, resources, and advantages others won’t have, and you might as well tell the incentive program not to bother with you, because you’re a fan of the status quo.

          • Frustrated and anon :

            The usual story. Focused on my career for years and decided I wanted to start focusing on finding a companion/boyfriend a few years ago. Followed by unsuccessful dating, both online and off. A few hookups, a failed on/off relationship, and much frustration. I’m now considering working with a highly regarded local dating coach/matchmaker. Anyone done this? Any tips or ideas for getting the most out of this experience?

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            Of course it works well for you- you get the cream of the crop with experience and family connections and none of that awkwardness we talk about here when you go from a lower socioeconomic bracket to dealing with people from a higher bracket. These interns will represent you well, look good, say the right things, know what fork to use at a company dinner, and otherwise be perfect. They have the perfect resumes, perfect test scores, perfect class schedule, and perfect upbringing to fit in.

            But, you’re excluding people who don’t have all of that and who will never be able to grow their skills without these opportunities. It may sound harsh, but it sounds like you’re asking for permission to skip over these candidates because they don’t present at the caliber you want. I would approach it by giving them a chance and helping them learn, which is the point of an internship. My first boss took a chance on me, I had none of the experience he wanted, and (humblebrag) says I was one of the best employees and definitely the best intern he ever had. I knew I didn’t know enough. But I wanted to learn. I threw myself in and did everything I could to pick it up. I loved it. I worked hard. And I would never have been able to if he hadn’t said “Sure. We’ll make it work.”

          • Anonymous :

            Stop hiring college students if you want them to have so much experience and so many skills.

            You sound like an unreasonable snob and I’m glad I don’t have to work for you.

          • Honestly this seems less like you are hiring interns who will gain experience in both your industry and just in the “real world” in general and more like getting cheap labor. Do you hire entry-level positions who do similar work?

          • Anonymous :

            This. It doesn’t sound like you all want the training aspect of internship programs and instead just want employees.

          • Senior Attorney :

            And this is how the status quo is perpetuated and this is how people from non-privileged backgrounds keep getting frozen out of the good jobs…

          • Anonymous :

            Yeah hiring only privileged kids with connections works well for lots of people.

        • anonforthis :

          Yeah, this. I became very interested in being a quant at an ibank my second year of college. I could have in no way taken unpaid internships, and my time for “clubs” was nonexistent. I simultaneously went to college full time at an Ivy and worked full time (50+ hours a week). I became the legal guardian of my two younger siblings when I turned 18 and had no family support, so I had no choice. Life was really really hard, but what made it harder was no one wanted to give me a chance even though I had a relevant double-major (math/business), my grades were stellar, and I had learned as much as I could about the industry. Don’t circumvent the program designed to help others like me on the basis of the exact criteria we cannot realistically achieve.

    • Interview and then make a determination. Someone can easily be successful in a new field if they have the right skills – independence, ability to work on a team, creativity, etc. Find out if your candidates have gained those skills in unrelated fields and how they plan to translate those skills to your field.

      • anonshmanon :

        A scientifically proven way to reduce unconscious bias is to sit down before the interviews, and write down what you are looking for in your intern. I agree with the above posters that your required level of experience seems not reasonable – they are there to learn!
        With the club membership it’s more subtle. What do you hope someone will have taken away from that extracurricular activity? Know the workflow, know big players in the industry? If a candidate is really passionate and interested in the field, simply lacking the formal credit, or if the candidate can point to exapmles of how they are a quick learner, react well to feedback – would that substitute for the club membership? It’s up to you, really.

        If you (and the other interviewers) go in with a clear rubric, grade every candidate directly after the interview on those qualities, and go for the one with the best standing, you can reduce unconscious bias in your hiring.

    • Anonymous :

      I mean, they’re college students. How much work experience are you expecting them to have?

      • +1000000

      • My thoughts exactly. I can’t imagine who would be considered a “qualified” intern. I’d look for qualities like smart, hard working, interested (not by virtue of a club but by a good cover letter explaining why your internship appeals to them). An internship just isn’t the kind of role you can expect to have a lot of prior or narrow interest/experience. And frankly, as many others have pointed out, you’re missing out on a lot of potentially great candidates with your narrow selection criteria.

    • Anonymous :

      If you really want to be an action leader on this and since the schools are in your area, go speak to the Widget Club and personally invite those 2-3 candidates to join you there for your speech and maybe go out to eat with them and 2-3 Widget Club members / future or past interns. If you decide not to move forward with any of them, you’ve at least help move them along in their path. And maybe you meet some standouts and move forward with them. Who knows? But may be the best way to assess and also help them if they ultimately aren’t ready the right candidates just yet. Maybe you could get some more Widget Association people from other orgniazations to join you in this since it seems to be important to the industry.

      • Anonymous :

        +100 this.

        My firm has started working directly with the clubs on campus. We go early in the year to build visibility for the club (it builds membership when students see that they are connected with us). In turn, students then focus on our area. When it comes to intern’s, we then have a lot of will qualifed applications.

        We also ask our interns who received offers to hold coaching sessions with the next year fun in the club to educate them on the resume/interview process.

        Our pipeline is huge at this point, and also very diverse.

    • The entire fact that you realize that the reason is likely the opportunity gap goes a long way to making up for the gap. As with any employee, you don’t know what you’ve got until you’ve got it. Some of the referrals could be terrible or entitled. It could be fine. Or their writing skills could be not great. Who knows?!

      Since it’s just an intern position, what is the problem with having a slightly relaxed “standard”? Is this a program that ends in a potential job offer? If not you really have nothing to lose.

      One piece of advice, as a minority? Do not ask the token minority to mentor the token minority (I’m assuming they all get mentors. If not it’s awkward – ask me how I know). Ask a reasonable person that likes to mentor, who will put in the effort to help the mentee grow professionally.

    • I applied for my college internship the first year the program was expanded to the local state college from just the prestigious private college. My work experience had nothing to do with my major and included agriculture work and other jobs that Paid. The. Bills. I’m forever grateful that the interview committee took a chance with me and taught me more in those 15 months than in every class I’ve ever taken combined.

      Bring the top three candidates in and interview them. Give them credit for an insatiable desire to learn. Give them grace for any faux pas that are related to not having grown up with the “right connections”.

    • Ok, really think about this. You are saying 1) that by design, the only people qualified for your position are those with family connections and experience in your area, and 2) you understand that people from XYZ background won’t get the opportunities or have the know how (from being connected) to get the experience you want, but 3) you won’t change the standards you know XYZ people can’t achieve.

      What you want is for us to tell you it’s okay to not consider people from XYZ background since they don’t meet certain standards that you know they can’t meet. I don’t think you’re going to get what you want here.

      You know you need to change the “standards” you have, which, for a college internship you know is BS since your job is to teach them not have cheap / free labor in order to be more inclusive. You just don’t want to change. Either change or admit you don’t really want these kids and call it a day, you won’t get a pass here.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        +1 million

        You’re asking for a pass. You’re not going to get it.

        • Anonymous :

          Basically, the OP’s company’s position is that they want “interns” who are basically already trained in the industry so they don’t have to invest anything into training them or helping them learn things. That doesn’t sound to me like an internship that’s designed for the benefit of the intern; it sounds like the company wants temporary employees they can underpay (or not pay at all). Watch your back for DOL complaints, OP.

        • Triangle Pose :

          100% Agree. Seriously think more about this. You have some biases that need to be examined, OP.

      • Anonymous :

        I think it’s like you’ve opened the door, but people didn’t walk in the way they need to. Maybe do something like anon @ 3:10 suggested with some non-evangelizing evangelizing. Some people are going to rise up and you want to catch those kids.

    • Anonymous :

      We have a similar problem at the nonprofit arts organization where I work – to get an internship here is sometimes statistically more competitive than getting into Harvard, and the most competitive candidates generally have completed at least one prior internship. Since few internships in our field are paid–ours actually are paid, and full-time, which is part of why they are popular–this creates a real barrier for students who cannot accept unpaid internships before they apply to us. I agree that interviewing some of these candidates is a good idea, at a minimum. But ultimately, I think you have to decide that fostering greater diversity is worth enough to you to take a risk on candidates that may be slightly less qualified. We have also taken the tactic of trying to build relationships with faculty in our field at colleges with very diverse student bodies to try to set up a referral pipeline, and also to have a chance to talk to younger students and try to convey the message that they should start thinking about what other internships and experience they can build before applying to us (e.g., can they take a local unpaid internship for college credit?)

      • You want a relatively underprivileged student to keep working their job to pay for college, and then sacrifice their college coursework and instead try to trick their University (as a sophomore or junior?) into allowing them to do an unpaid internship for college credit (!?!?!?!) so that they can then apply for your nonprofit internship the next year? That is…. insane.

        Pretty soon college is just going to be the playground for the rich and elite. Or is it already…

        • Colleges giving credit for internships is common practice these days and it’s taken advantage of by all kinds of students. Depending of course on the internship itself and any additional work the college may require, it doesn’t sacrifice coursework. The original suggestion is a sound one.

          • Anonymous :

            I work in a lucrative area that is also considered to be very boring (lucrative = exciting to me). So we need people who can handle boring and aren’t just lured in by the $. We don’t want a high wash-out rate. We screen for boring-tolerance by looking at people who speak positively about the really, really bad (my words) jobs they’ve had and what they learned from them, who are also good students and pleasant to around.

            I used to typeset (remember that???) sheriff sale notices. And that was one of my better jobs.

          • And before it comes up, I’m in no way saying this should be a requirement (and I don’t believe the original poster was either). This is just one of many options that could be suggested, if appropriate and feasible, to a student looking to beef up their resume for a potential, more demanding employer.

          • wildkitten :

            You have to PAY to do an internship for credit. An internship that PAYS is an opposite animal.

          • Anonymous :

            College credit for internships is common, but it’s also common that those internships are paid. I had three internships and all were paid.

        • What is your very boring, but lucrative job? I’m really curious as I think that is one of my hidden talents (part of what makes me an excellent associate but super unlikely to make partner).

          • Anonymous :

            Ah I feel the same way. I often think of myself as a cog in the wheel, which sounds so sad but someone’s got to get the work done! Partnership track seems so much more about being a a star, doing flashy work that draws attention to yourself. Maybe its the whole individualist/collectivist society thing, but I often wish more credit was given to the people that do the boring work well.

      • The reality is that even if underprivileged students are told they should be doing unpaid internships, that may not be possible and to suggest they do so would be pretty depressing for them to hear and reinforce the feeling that they don’t belong in this world.

        • anonforthis :

          Poster above who worked full time during college. This times a million. ALWAYS felt like I didn’t belong and I almost quit college numerous times.

        • Anonymous :

          I get that, and that is why I suggested perhaps doing an internship for credit so you can still have a paid job. (And no, I wasn’t suggesting tricking the college into this, it’s a thing at many schools you can register to do and has been at least since I went to college 20 years ago). But I can also see why some posters feel that an internship is less valuable than a college class, so thank you for helping me see this differently. In my case, I don’t think it would have been a sacrifice – I think I would have probably learned as much – but I can see why others might not feel that way, especially others who are paying for college themselves or who didn’t study liberal arts – my parents paid for my college, and that privilege is undoubtedly affecting how I see this.

          • At least when I was in school, the internships were unpaid AND I had to pay the school to get credit. Eg, the internship was two credits, I had to pay the school the same price as a two credit class. Kind of the worst of all worlds for a kid trying to work their way through school.

        • Exactly. I refused to do anything unpaid in school BECAUSE I COULDN’T AFFORD TO.

          You’re basically saying this program wants us to do this thing and we want to seem nice but we don’t want to deal with these poors that’s ok right?

          No.

          it’s not.

          You’re awful.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Look for kids with paid work experience. Even if it is waiting tables. They learned more doing that than in some industry club or having the right parents. They will know how to navigate the various personalities at your firm. They will likely be more mature as well.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      The best intern I ever had was a high school grad (hadn’t yet started college) who was so nervous she could barely speak in the interview. I gave her a chance to try the interview again (because her guidance counsellor had recommended her so enthusiastically), and she did much better the second time. She geeked out about her organizational schemes for her binders, and told me how she used to work alone in the ice cream store over the summers. There was stuff I absolutely had to coach her on (phone skills, email professionalism) but at the base she was smart, motivated, organized, and competent. Aw I miss her.

      TLDR, get someone with good fundamental skills and personality traits, and they’ll learn about the widgets.

    • nerfmobile :

      Set aside the prior experience criteria (previous internships and Widget Club membership), and interview the minority candidates who are otherwise qualified. If you don’t even interview them, you are a priori perpetuating the status quo. After interviews, then consider the candidates based on the interviews and your evaluation of their relative skills and ability to learn. Ideally, you’ll be able to find a place for at least one of these people. After the summer, you can then evaluate and decide how much those extra criteria turned out to matter, or not.

    • IMO going forward you need to be broadcasting to these students what coursework and extracurricular qualifications you’d like to see (possibly via this group that is collecting resumes) rather than expecting them to magically know what they need to put on their resume.

      This is especially the case if these students are not attending public universities, IMO. I went to both a fancy shmancy private college and to state school, and the private college completely dropped the ball on telling students how in the heck to be prepared for the “real world” because 1. they assumed we already knew/had family connections and 2. most of the professors were tenured and only cared about academia. At state school, half of my professors were working professionals who actually understood what students needed to be successful in the business world and would talk about that stuff in class.

      FWIW, I was in the accounting honors society and it did jack squat in terms of making me more prepared to enter the workforce. If this widget club is something where they do complex analytical stuff as part of the club, that’s one thing, but most of these academic clubs are just fluff in terms of job preparedness. (Not at all fluff in terms of networking though).

    • Anonymous :

      Hire one. Do you hear yourself talking or no? They don’t have prior internships because of companies like yours that give them to all friends. They aren’t in clubs because they work for money. Dear god. This attitude is why the programs exist

    • I’m an actuary. What you’re talking about sounds a lot like the Actuarial field. We are an incredibly un-diverse profession. It has to start somewhere and it’s not going to start by waiting until you find someone who is a minority but also has family and friends who happen to be in your field. You have to make it happen. Give one person a chance. It’s the right thing to do.

    • Some of these replies are rather harsh and condescending. I think they are mostly from lawyers, who are unique in that they get paid huge sums of money to get trained. (There’s a reason that model is dying.)

      Two suggestions:

      1. Every year, reach out to minority and low-income students in local colleges. Host a luncheon at your company, talk about the requirements for internships and what your company looks for, and how to structure their college years for that field. Host mock interviews. Within a year or so, kids who go to the luncheon will be strong applicants.

      2. Interview the ones who are talented, have close-enough skills, and some work experience. Take a chance on one for one summer. If it’s a disaster in the making, see previous suggestion.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        How is this different from what the lawyers are saying? A lot of us are saying the same thing: end the status quo. Hire them. Stop being elitist. Some may be saying the OP has the right idea but most of us aren’t.

        • “Stop being elitist” is not what I am saying. She’s being pragmatic, not snobby.

          If the intern hiring is a flop, she has every right to stop it (and my guess is that is *exactly* what will happen).

        • In a bit more detail, because you’re not very bright:

          Commenters have snottily told her she is asking for “a pass” and that she’s “not going to get one.” (I do not think she is asking for a pass. I think she’s asking high-powered, professional women if it even works to hire underprivileged but underprepared students.)

          Commenters here have critiqued the way her industry uses interns. (I am not doing that; my entire point was that those making such claims are not thinking substantively about the fact that these kids are being paid good money for substantive work.)

          The commenters here have basically said that she should just hire unqualified people and that will change things. (My suggestion is that she find freshman and build a pipeline.)

          Did I mention that she was subjected to some seriously harsh words? (When I was an engineer, junior-year internships were reserved for those who could hit the ground running. Other fields are similar. Some are different. It’s notable that the lawyers are shredding her and the actuary is not.)

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            Well, aren’t you sweet. And snobby. And elitist. Bless your heart.

            Pragmatic is code here and it’s not a good code word. You have no idea if these people are unqualified- or if the people who got in using Daddy’s influence are qualified. You’re ignoring privilege that exists. A pipeline only works if the people in the pipeline can meet these ridiculously elitist requirements. Which, as multiple posters had said, disadvantaged students often cannot.

      • Anonymous :

        Not a lawyer!

      • Engineer here and I completely agree with all the other commenters, many of whom are probably not lawyers. In my engineering program we expect to train students regardless of courses and clubs. It is not reasonable for us to expect someone to come in with the entire skillset they need even for internships. That’s the whole point of an internship.

      • Engineer, not a lawyer. There are actually a lot of non-lawyers here

    • Anonymous :

      One thing I want to add is that you’re very focused on what these candidates might be “missing” but are forgetting what value you may get from hiring interns with different backgrounds from the standard and building the pipeline moving forward. Studies suggest that diverse groups of employees come out with better outcomes. Studies also suggest that it’s easier to hire diverse candidate when you already have diversity. You need to build up a pipeline both for the industry, and for your company by creating and staffing a strong and helpful internship program. It will yield YOU benefits in the long term. If you find an engaged and motivated young person with relevant coursework, creativity, and other experiences working for pay, don’t worry about one or two missing signifiers of low value (club participation.)

    • Part of diversity and inclusiveness is recognizing that candidates from some socio-economic groups do not have the social capital (connections, mentoring, guidance, passed-down knowledge and experience) that others may have. These kids might not be aware of the importance of widget club to be employable, or may have to work to finance their education rather than take on an unpaid widget internship.

      Part of the beauty of diversity initiatives is that they force us to see value in experiences that may previously have been seen as less than perfect (e.g. working at McDonalds instead of a law firm internship; community college and state U vs. 4 year private U). I think it’s well-settled that grit, persistence, and determination are highly valued qualities in candidates in every industry. So while these candidates may not have the perfect “on-paper” background, they may bring qualities, skills, and experience to the table that your industry may not have previously considered as high value because of historic practices of favoring particular schools or experiences.

      I agree that an interview can give you insight into fit, knowledge of your industry, and future performance, but I encourage you to not remain so married to your previous “requirements” that you overlook some excellent candidates who may not have had (or recognized the cachet of) traditional opportunities and experiences.

    • Can you see some of the resumes that were not presented to you by the industry group? In a similar situation, I could not find a suitable candidate amongst those screened by HR. When I went to the HR office and tactfully asked to see some of the rejected candidates (folders left in a pile on a back table) the resume of a perfect, and spectacularly successful, candidate was in one of those [email protected]

      • Anonymous :

        This is usually a good idea! Wow, I don’t know how my HR thinks they are screen resumes, but I’ve found them to bypass great candidates – at intern and entry level positions- for no obvious reason while giving me really bad fit candidates. I’ve been shocked to see the candidates they didn’t select. And successfully hired from the “rejects”.

    • Anonymous :

      The hiring practices and standards you are using are actually doing a disservice to your firm. If you hire people that all have the same profile, skills, experience, and contacts, you will end up with people who are a lot alike, doing the same things, and getting the same results.

      Looking at this as if you are doing these students a “favor” is a limited approach. Find one that can do the work, or be trained to do the work, and your firm will gain greatly from gaining new perspectives and insights. Both you and the interns will benefit.

  9. Black or Brown Eyeliner? :

    Which do you recommend, black or brown eyeliner for pale people with black lashes?

    • Anonymous :

      The point of eyeliner is usually to make your lashline look fuller at the base, so black would be better to fulfill that objective.

    • Hm I’m pale with black lashes and I wear stila liner in moss green. It basically reads as a less harsh black. You don’t pick up any green looking at it. Brown might be the same.

    • Also pale with dark lashes and I use Urban Decay liner in a color called Roach, recommended to me in one of those Sephora mini consultations. Excusing the rather horrible image inspired by the word Roach, it makes my eyes pop better than any other liner color I’ve used.

    • Lyra Silvertongue :

      Black eyeliner reads way too harsh on most people with pale skin. I’m blonde with blue eyes and fair skin and I wear dark brown, navy, moss, plum…almost anything but black. Marilyn Monroe never wore black eyeliner, she always wore brown eyeliner and she looked smoking hot and I’m sure no one went, “Oh, is that brown eyeliner?”

      • +1 to all of this. Any dark color looks better on me than black, which is too harsh against my pale skin. I love all the colors Lyra Silvertongue mentioned.

        • Nudibranch :

          Brown-eyed, fair skinned, dark lashed person here. I find Urban Decay’s “Push” is perfect for my coloring.

  10. cat socks :

    I normally wear neutral lip colors, but I’d like to try some pinks and reds. Do you ever wear bright lipstick in a daily basis? My work place is very casual so there’s no issue with wearing bright or colorful makeup. Any recommendations for drugstore lip sticks or glosses?

    • Anonymous :

      The crayon-like sticks from Burt’s Bees are excellent. Maybe more colorful than bright.

    • biglawanon :

      I generally wear red or hot pink lipstick as a biglaw attorney, except to court, etc. I wear a neutral (brown for me). I have moved away from drug store cosmetics, so no recs there.

      • cat socks :

        What higher end brands do you use? If I get comfortable wearing bright colors I might be willing to spend a little more.

        • Not biglawanon but i use Laura Mercier sheer lipstick. It’s a great way to get a color on your lips that is not drying or just too much. I use healthy lips, which on pale pink-toned me is a medium dark pink/berry/red. For warmer skin tones i think Tender Lips is better, as it’s just slightly rust/red. (Very slightly)

        • biglawanon :

          NARS pencils are probably my favorite. Cruella is my fave color. Although I recently bought a hot pink YSL Tatouage in hot pink and love it – really different thinner consistency, but it stays put. Also recently got a sample of a Guerlain lipstick in Pink Tie and may buy it. For a neutral, I use the D&G Antonia color.

          If it matters, I have the same complexion/hair color as the Kardashians due to similar ethnic background.

    • pugsnbourbon :

      I am very pale, lots of red in my skin and red-brown hair. I like:
      -NYX matte lipstick in Natural – looks pink on me
      -Wet n Wild in Tea Rose and Mauve Outta Here
      -Rimmel Stay Matte in Rose (?)

    • Anonymous :

      There is a Clinique pink (Long Last Matte in Beauty) I really like currently on sale for $13 at Sephora if you want to split the cost difference.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      They don’t have them much anymore, but if you can find matte lip stains that look like crayons markers (Revlon used to make them, so did Covergirl), “Victorian” is a nice pink that’s pink but not PINK. They have it on Amazon.

      If anyone knows where to find these or something similar that’s not from a sketchy Amazon store, I’d be very grateful.

      • Anonymous :

        Check out Bed Bath and Beyond (weird I know)! They seem to have really increased their cosmetics recently and have a deep bench of drugstore brands.

      • Elegant Giraffe :

        I think this is what Clinique chubby lip sticks are? They look like fat crayons to me anyway.

    • cat socks :

      Thanks for all the recommendations! I’m going to check some out this weekend.

    • Anonymous :

      Last year I got a freebie from Sephora of 2 NARS Velvet Matte Lip Pencil colors I love – Dolce Vita and Cruella.

    • Anonymous :

      I love Cover girl’s Lip Perfection jumbo gloss balms. I wear Ruby Twist, which is somewhere between a warm red and a coral. They’re actually lip balm-y, which I love, and the color is saturated but not harsh. Berry Twist is pretty but doesn’t suit my skin tone.

      I’m also a fan of ELF’s tinted lip balms. The Smoochy Spice is a sheer brick red.

    • I live in bold reds. L’Oreal’s Color Riche in True Red is an awesome drugstore one – it’s actually a pretty great dupe for MAC’s Ruby Woo. I also have several colors of the NYX Soft Matte Lip Cream – Monte Carlo, Copenhagen, and Prague are my faves.

    • Jules - Paging FMLA for newborn poster :

      I like ELF, and they are ridiculously cheap (like, $2), so if you just want to see how you look and feel in brighter colors than you’re used to, you can try them with a minimal investment. The true red that I have in my bag at the moment is “Fearless.” (Not sure what variety of ELF it is, it’s in a silver tube.) A more muted, berry red is “Posh.”

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Revlon Just Bitten Kissable Lip Stain and Balm! They’re those big crayon type things — go on great and stay on too.

  11. Some of you may recall I was moving out of my country for a new position (not in law). All seems to go quite ok – people are nice, business is not in a tragic shape, but God oh God, I forgot how I hate starting from scratch. Getting to know the business, meeting new people and building new networks, differentiating between the true supporters and fake smiles. It is just so exhausting. I crash straight to bed when I get home (home = hotel room for the next 2 months). And my boss – he is smart and tries hard, but is not the best communicator or energizer. And most importantly, he does not get my jokes.
    I also had one unexpected experience – After 3 days to my new job, I already had to deal with a very vocal unsatisfied direct report (who went to several people up in the hierarchy and complained about me being her new boss, when – gasp – 2 years ago, I was her peer). She wanted to use the situation and went behind the back of her previous boss and me straight to the HR and the GM and complained about her grade and salary, how she was promised a promotion after 6 months in her role by her leaving manager etc. What she did not expect was the leaving manager, myself and the HR coordinate and invite her for a joint meeting to clarify the situation. I was disappointed by her immaturity and lack of integrity, but on the other hand, I was lucky my predecesor was there and called her bs out.
    But no regrets. I realize every day that this will be a great learning experience.

    • anon for this :

      I am going through something similar and feel your pain. Will it help to say that it mostly goes away after not too long a while?

    • Good luck. Hoping you will settle in soon.

      Try not to crush your former co-worker …. completely. I’ve been on that other side, promised promotions that didn’t happen, and have to suddenly work for a boss who was recently a peer. To jump to calling her immature and lacking integrity…. only you know that as we don’t know the whole shebang… but from how you talk it sounds like she is going to lose her job soon or have to leave.

      Be strong, but be merciful.

      • I didn’t want to write the full story, too many details. I am happy to have her on the team and work with her on her career and development, but my previous experience tells me that in such cases, the other person has already mapped he market and will leave for higher salary. And with unemployment rate of <2%, I need to be prepared for this (start informal interviews just in case).
        Her immaturity and slip on integrity refered more to the fact that she tried to use the situation and went behind my back. I would prefer her sitting me and her former manager down and putting her promotion on he table. I have also told her how I would like her to deal with similar situations in the future and she seemed to get it.
        Thank you both for words of encouragement.

    • Anonymous :

      I suggest you step back and take a serious look at your attitude. If you are communicating what you think at work (and you probably are, these things are difficult to not show), I can see why your new subordinate wants out. The martyrdom and condescension is telling, and don’t be too sure your management is looking at you with concern.

      • Thank you for reminding me to make sure my temporary emotions do not transpire at work. I try to save emotional rants for friends and this s!te – maybe somebody else is transitioning and will appreciate the story. I myself forgot how starting from scratch feels like and it took me by surprise. At work, I try to keep my eyes open and listen more than talk, and learn as much as possible. As I said, the team is nice and I am looking forward to the journey.
        In case you are referring to the work incident, I believe we have managed it well – everyone is on the same page, the employee also confirmed that she was not promised anything, but rather assumed there will be a promotion after 6 month. To keep her focused and motivated, we had a long open discussion on her career options and development actions, if she is truly interested in a promotion. And she seems aligned with the results and knows that in case she has any concerns, first, she goes to me, then to HR or the GM.

    • Mineallmine :

      I’ve moved countries a couple of times, and it is brain-foggingly exhausting under the best of circumstances. I couldn’t imagine having the direct reports situation on top of it all. No real advice except to say it’s OK to sleep a lot and keep things simple for now. In a couple of months you’ll see an improvement in your energy, though it takes months or a year to get really settled. You’re in the worst of it right now, trying to deal with everything all at the same time with no support network. When you have a little more energy, reach out to the local expat community. Whether you find new friends there or not, they will help you with practical tips and introduce you to people you don’t work with. Even if you speak the local language there are a million things you have to figure out. Good luck!

  12. Quick suit in NYC :

    I need to buy a good suit either tonight or tomorrow, looking for better than Ann Taylor/Banana quality but can’t quite afford Theory. I wear a straight size. Where should I go– Bloomingdales? Is J. Crew any good? Macy’s Herald Square terrifies me but is closer to my office.

    • Anonymous :

      Honestly, if you want wool and BR fits you off the rack, I’d go to BR hands-down. The quality is as good as you’re probably going to get without going up significantly in price.

      • Anonymous :

        Agree. J Crew is also fine, but I would call to check they even have suits in their stores before going to one — they often don’t have women’s suiting. With Banana, you can check the store inventory online.

    • Anonymous :

      I was just in Banana yesterday and they had all their spring stuff out, including some really nice suits.

    • Quick suit in NYC :

      I will look at Banana! Wasn’t a fan last time I was there but it was a while ago.

  13. Jules - Paging FMLA for newborn poster :

    I just posted on the morning thread an additional reply with links to some Department of Labor fact sheets on some of your specific FMLA issues. Hope it’s helpful

  14. Intermittent fasting :

    I need to lose 10-15 lbs, but I’m pretty anti-diet/restriction (I think it doesn’t work and that it encourages unhealthy habits), so I’m wondering if IF would be a good fit for me. As I understand it, you eat your usual, normal amount of calories, but just in a smaller window, right? I think a few people here have commented on it before so would love your perspectives.

    • Anonymous :

      It’s been working for me. I was never a big breakfast eater and my biggest overeating problem was in the evening. I eat between 12pm (lunch) and 8pm. I’ll make exceptions if going out to dinner with friends. Basically don’t eat after supper is done. I just do black coffee for breakfast – occassionally with a single serve full fat yoghurt for breakfast. I make sure I eat a good lunch (protein, veggies and carbs) and supper.

      I’ve been doing to maintain vs. lose though. If you’re trying to lose, I would look to Weight Watchers. Ignore the WW food products and don’t eat aspartame etc and it’s actually a very reasonable whole foods focused system. You could combine WW with IF as well.

      • Eeertmeert :

        +1 for WW. I started in mid-Aug and am over halfway to my goal. I find it easy to use, and flexible. This week I had a cheeseburger & tator tots, m&ms, popcorn, hommemade bolognese sauce. It’s about portion and being intentional about what you eat by gaining healthy long term habits.
        I use the app but don’t go to meetings. The Connect (WW social media built into app) is generally awesome and definitely inspiring.
        Good luck with whatever you try!

    • cat socks :

      I’ve started doing this on an informal basis. I usually sleep late on the weekends so I end up skipping breakfast and eat around noon. I started by skipping breakfast on Fridays. I thought I would be ravenous at lunch time, but I found I got full pretty quickly. I’ve noticed a couple of pounds of weight loss. This past week I didn’t do so well, but I want to get back on track this weekend.

      A lot of times in the morning, I would go through McDonalds or get a bagel with a sugary coffee drink. Skipping breakfast entirely has helped reduce my morning “comfort food” cravings.

    • Anonymous :

      If you eat your usual, normal amount of calories, you are not going to lose weight. You are looking for a solution that does not exist.

      • Senior Attorney :

        Yup. The whole point of limiting the times you can eat is to reduce your calories.

      • Yup. Intermittent Fasting just makes it easier to consume fewer calories.

      • Anonymous :

        +10000 It’s physics.

      • The entire Whole30 diet claims to accomplish this, though – with at least as many endorsements as I seem to see for Weight Watchers. There’s more to it than just calories in, calories out when you are restricting carbs/grains, but not overall calories.

    • Anonymous :

      How on earth is restricting when you can eat not a restrictive diet? Is the sky yellow today? Do words not have meaning?!?

      • wildkitten :

        IF doesn’t restrict *what* you eat, but instead when. Restrictive diet usually means like, don’t eat carbs or sugar etc etc. So yes, restrictive has a meaning but has a different one when attached to dieting. Many words change meaning in similar ways.

    • It has worked really well for me. I read the Obesity Code and it helped keep me motivated. And it explains about insulin and how fasting can lower insulin resistance. I do 24 hours, which means I eat dinner every day, but I skip breakfast every day except Saturday (when I eat breakfast out—I’m not a big breakfast fan) and skip lunch every other day. It helped me focus on eating filling and complete meals rather than snacking when I get home because I’m hungry.

      I do better with IF than dieting (when I tracked calories, I ate more processed foods so I knew how many calories I was eating and I kept saving calories for junk food). I lost 15 pounds really easily. I’ve been doing it for almost a year now and find it very easy to maintain.

    • Anonymous :

      Consider the new ww program. It encourages healthy eating as veggies, fruits, beans, some chicken and turkey as well as all fish are 0 points. Processed foods, fats, etc have points. I started almost 2 weeks ago and am down 6 lbs. I’m not an intuitive eater, so tracking what I eat is really helpful for me and trying to work in as many 0 point food into a day as possible results in a very healthy menu.

  15. Frustrated and anon :

    Nesting failure.

    The usual story. Focused on my career for years and decided I wanted to start focusing on finding a companion/boyfriend a few years ago. Followed by unsuccessful dating, both online and off. A few hookups, a failed on/off relationship, and much frustration. I’m now considering working with a highly regarded local dating coach/matchmaker. Anyone done this? Any tips or ideas for getting the most out of this experience?

    • Anonymous :

      I think this sort of thing works well if there is a large pool of potential matches for you, otherwise, you’ll be stuck paying thousands and getting a runaround or not what you’re looking for. This is second hand experience from a friend. She’s 5’10, not religious but from a cultural tradition that’s strong, professional, in a large HCOL and the matchmaker just kept setting her up with duds.

    • My friend is a high powered successful woman in her 40s and she kept getting set up with high powered successful men in their 50s who were really looking for high powered successful women in their 20s, at least looks-wise. It was awful for her.

    • Don’t bother with a matchmaker. Matchmakers source their people onhe same dating sites you can join and source for yourself (OKC, Tinder, March, eHarmony, etc.). My husband was regularly solicited by thos matchmakers when he was online. He did it once just to see if they had some magic approach, and he said it was less considered (more single, looking for a professional Jewish lawyer, you too? Great! Date!) than a thoughtful approach. In short, it’s a lot of money to spend on a service that you can do better yourself. It just takes time, critical mass (go on a lot of dates but keep your standards and goals high), and luck. I wish you luck.

  16. You also have months before the summer starts. If there’s someone with ability, you could encourage them to read certain texts or join a certain club before they show up in the summer. I once had an interviewer ask me to start following a certain trade publication if I was interested in entering the field.

  17. Sloan Sabbith :

    I owe about $17K to Sallie Mae from a college private loan. My grandfather, god bless him, started a gift trust for me when I was born and I got access to it recently. It has the $ in it to pay off the loan in full, which I obviously want to do. My question is: if I’m paying it off in full, is there any way to get Sallie Mae to “settle,” essentially? Pay less than what I currently owe for the lump sum? I assume no because the money comes from interest, but I figured I’d look around and ask all you amazing women who also understand money more than I do.

    • Anonymous :

      Interest accrues daily so I would be inclined to put a chunk against your loan immediately while you try to figure out the answer.

    • Yeah sorry, no. If you aren’t in default, they have zero incentive to settle. You’re just paying in full early.

      But it never hurts to ask.

    • Anonymous :

      No. Debt is only settled in bankruptcy/default situations where the bank has the chance of getting zero repayment so instead they take what they can get.

      This is an unpopular view here but why pay off loans early instead of investing that 17k to grow it faster than the interest rate? Is it an unusually high interest rate? I know people here will often say they mentally want to be done so they’re paying off their 6% debt or whatever but if you can make more than 6% in the market, you’re short changing yourself financially. Even more true when people pay off 2% and 3% debt.

      • Anonymous :

        It entirely depends on the rate. Most people can’t get 6 to 8% in the market consistently where as paying down debt is a guaranteed 6-8% if That is your interest-rate

        • Anonymous :

          +1. I think this is not really an unpopular opinion as it applies to debt at 2-3% (like mortgages) but most student loans are at 6-8% and the market is unlikely to consistently beat that.

      • You’re taking risk to principal betting in the stock market (and it really is a form of gambling) vs a guaranteed interest rate on a loan. If you could make excess of the loan interest rate in an FDIC insured no-risk savings account, then of course you should do it. But those accounts don’t exist. You’re comparing apples to oranges and it’s bad advice.

      • I recently inherited money and will invest in CDs rather than pay off my student loans. While it would be nice not to have the loans hanging over my head, the money in the CDs can be used if I have an emergency. The plan is to just start doubling the student loan payments. If I lose my job tomorrow, it won’t really matter that I paid off the loans since I won’t have money to pay my mortgage.

    • Anonymous :

      Unlike a credit card, which could be bankrupted or otherwise uncollectible, there’s such a small chance of total lack of collectability for a student loan – esp. a Sallie Mae one – that there’s really zero incentive for them to work with you on this. It doesn’t hurt to ask, but I would venture to guess the answer will be no. (I am saying this from experience – we paid over $20K in a lump sum to Sallie Mae years ago. They just took it. And then charged us $.89 the next month for unpaid accrued interest that hadn’t made its way to our payoff quote. GRRR.)

    • Anonymous :

      I paid my loans off early with a big lump sum payment and there was no discount.

    • Anonymous :

      No absolutely not.

    • I wonder if you’re confusing principal with the sum of scheduled future payments. The principal is all you would owe right now. If they don’t tell you what that is on your statement, call and ask for a payoff amount. It will be well below the sum of your future payments, unless your interest rate is very, very low.

      • Anonymous :

        Most loans give you a “what you currently owe” number which is principal and accrued interest, and is much less than what you’ll actually pay if you stretch payments out for years. I didn’t get the impression at all from her question that OP was adding up all her future payments to arrive at the $17k.

  18. On the subject of getting a cat: is it possible to be a cat owner and also not be kind of obsessed with your cat? I think about getting one from time to time, but I have some friends that are obsessed with their cats to the point the cats seem to dominate the conversation. And I don’t want to get one if it’s going to turn me into a cat bore.

    • Anonymous :

      I never talk about mine but I’m obsessed with all my pets – the honor of having little lives to care for, how cute and sweet they are … but I know no one cares. And two are more fun than one so maybe get two that can’t be separated!

      • Aww :) This is a cute way of putting it!

      • I too am obsessed with all of my pets and in order not to drive everyone to tears of boredom and annoyance, I have an Instagram account for my dog where I post all the ridiculously cute pictures of them so that if people want to see, they can, if not, they don’t have to!

        Yes, I am that person.

      • Incognito Cat Lady :

        My cat lady status is a closely guarded secret (unless you come to my house and I give you the obligatory allergies warning). But I love them more than anything else in the world. Its a great privilege to have my furry family zoo. I’d agree about adopting a bonded pair, it’s actually easier. They adjust to your home faster, have a built in best friend, built in play mate, and are less likely to get into trouble. Plus bonded pair are the last to go and are often ‘discounted’ with a lower adoption fee.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          Oh a bonded pair is the best! (And get boys! #catsexism)

          I am obsessed with my cats because they’re adorable and hilarious and my best buds. But I’m pretty sure I bore my friends more with stories about my kid/job/hobby. Hmmm, over [one too many] drinks I confided to a colleaguefriend that I don’t sleep well in hotel rooms because I miss my kitties… but I don’t think my colleagues – even that one – have ever seen a picture of them?

    • As the previous owner of a cat (RIP Titus!) I want to say gently: it’s kind of hard not to be obsessed with your cat. All my friends who own cats are obsessed with them, and rightly so! Cats have so much personality! My cat was my best little buddy when I went through a bad breakup and needed a friend who would listen and not judge me for drinking wine alone and watching Wheel of Fortune every night. I think it’s ok to somewhat frequently talk about how interesting your cat is – they do the funniest, weirdest, cutest stuff! Remember people also do this with their dogs and children and hobbies. The fact that you’re worried about it makes me think you’ll be mindful of the frequency/intensity and tone it down around non-cat lovers or when you can tell others think it’s a bit much.

    • I love my cat. But I’m not obsessed with him. I’m obsessed with my dog.

      So maybe the secret is, be a dog person who happens to have a cat.

      • Anonymous :

        Same. I have 2 cats and a dog. I love them all, but I’m obsessed with my dog. When she rests her head on my leg or lap and looks up at me, its the best feeling in the world.

    • I am a cat owner and I am not obsessed with my cat, but I also don’t like cats in general (more of a dog person and it was not my idea to get this cat).

    • Anonymous :

      I have owned both cats and dogs and honestly have been obsessed with neither.

      That said, I do talk about my cat and dog occasionally when making small talk, as they can serve as a nice, neutral topic and provide some funny anecdotes. I suppose it’s possible that people who don’t know me well may get the impression that I am “obsessed” with my animals as a result, but I assure you that’s not the case.

    • I am secretly obsessed with my cats. I have two and I love them so much! They have brought me so much joy and companionship and I just like having them to take care of.

      But I rarely mention them in conversation or post pictures of them on social media. They usually get shut away in a bedroom (with food and water) if there are people over so that I don’t force my guests to obsess over them with me. And sometimes I’ll leave social events early because I have to get home and feed the cats their dinner, but I never say, “I have to go home and feed the cats.” I pretend they’re just my casual kitty cat roommates.

      So I don’t know if it’s possible to get a cat without becoming obsessed but it’s definitely possible to keep your obsession under wraps to avoid driving other people crazy.

    • I’m obsessed with my cats (a pair of formerly feral brother kittens) but I don’t really talk about them unless someone is talking about their dog. One of my cats is really more dog-like than cat-like so there are some kind of funny stories about him that relate to people’s dog stories.

      Other than that i might mention having to find a pet sitter when going out of town for business but that’s about it. I don’t think I’ve ever shown anyone at work a pic of them (even though they are devastatingly handsome) and I don’t use babytalk or anything when i talk about them.

      But I do miss them when I’m at work and, because I have two teenage human kids and a grumpy husband, I’m just glad to have someone who is glad to see me when I get home from work, even if it is a (devastatingly handsome) chubby tabby.

    • Anonymous :

      I think it’s possible to not be a bore about it but it’s not possible to become obsessed with a cat. I too have a dedicated instagram for mine.

      • Anonymous :

        *to not become obsessed. Obsession is mandatory.

        • I don’t really talk about my cats at work but they appear regularly on my Facebook. I figure if we are close enough work friends to be FB friends, I don’t care if you also know that I have the two best cats on earth.

          (The majority of my pics are of my chubby cat trying to fit into something that he does not fit into)

    • No. I was totally anti cat, and now I am a crazy cat lady who posts adorable pics of her cat in funny places like suitcases and bookshelves (adorably hiding between books). Just go with it.

    • Love my cat, and she is a great dude gatekeeper (don’t like hanging out with the friendliest, snuggliest cat in the world? You need to go). But I am not obsessed with her. Whether you will be obsessed with your cat is a personality thing — I have too short an attention span and am too scattershot in my interests to be obsessed with my furball or anything else. You can tell whether you fall into a potentially obsessive category or not. But you should get a cat — they are awesome.

  19. Ugh!!!! I hate these ads at the bottom of the page. And now you can’t delete them!!!! She must have changed the way they programmed – now they return in a minute or two.

    And for some bizarre reason my ads are mostly in Spanish, which I cannot read (blessing in disguise?), and with an embedded video player.

    Can someone remind me which ad blocker you are using successfully?

    I completely understand they need to make $$ on this blog, but already the clicks make you money and so many ads already….. these bottom of the page ads that you constantly hit/activate accidentally every time you pass over them or scroll are infuriating.

    • Adblock Plus

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      No adblock on my phone and they’re just showing up as black today. A semi-opaque black bar I can’t get rid of that obviously is supposed to be an ad. And won’t go away. And has no x. And blocks the bottom of the screen. And is just generally annoying. Kat, seriously, I know you need to make money but this is going to lose you readers.

      • mobile adblock browsers :

        You need a new phone browser. Consider Firefox Focus or Brave (I know Brave handles corporette on mobile just fine).

        • mobile adblock browsers :

          Stuck in mod. “You need a new phone browser. Consider Firefox Focus or Brave (I know Brave handles corpor3tte on mobile just fine).

    • I just updated my Adblock wifi and refreshed the page, and it worked. It accesses the web through a proxy server, which I believe you have to set up for each Wi-Fi you connect to.

  20. Career Change/Intern :

    I’m in my thirties and in the middle of a career change. My academic program requires a semester-long internship. Hiring for these positions is competitive. I like to think I’m already a fairly desirable pick based on prior work experience, academic accomplishments and so on, but being/having a thirty-something intern is weird. Right? It just seems weird? My question is: what personal qualities, resume items, etc would make you more likely to hire an adult for an intern?

    • I just had a (now former) colleague do this: she was working on her MA in Counseling, and needed to go do an internship. She is 52.

      I think just a recognition that you will be the intern, and not in charge/senior, will go a long way. You’re a perfect package, if you can do that, I think. “Approaching this internship as a second-career applicant will allow me to serve your office in several valuable ways, combining my prior professional experiences with my earnest desire to learn and develop as a new [job title]. [proceed to list the ways your are amazing and helpful to their work]”

      Rock on, intern!

    • As part of a career change, I was an intern at ages 31-32. I got interest from everywhere I applied to intern, and got my first choice internship, and I think it’s because they know that with someone who’s already worked professionally there will be fewer risks on basic issues like showing up on time and following instructions. I totally agree that going into it with a clear attitude that you’re an intern, and not getting hung up on how much your status has dropped from changing fields, will help a ton. Don’t “make it weird” with supervisors who are your same age or younger.

      Finally, I held an internship in which there was only one of me. I think it kind of helped that I didn’t feel like I was wildly out of place in some cohort of 21-year-olds.

      Good luck!

    • Not weird at all. I’ve had interns of all ages. Be serious about the job and enjoy the relative lack of stress in being an intern.

  21. I’m putting an offer in on a house. Not in the scary neighborhood. A great neighborhood, small house, beautiful yard, great curb appeal. Yikes! Kinda freaking out.

  22. Anonymous :

    My boss has asked us to put together a memo summarizing what we worked on last year, what tasks we liked and what we didn’t like and what we want to do more/less of in the future. He’s a super nice, laidback guy, but I shouldn’t be too honest in this memo right? Some of the things I enjoyed the least are important parts of my job (although a relatively small percentage of my time is dedicated to them) so I feel like I can’t say I don’t enjoy them.

    • nerfmobile :

      I would suggest focusing on the positives (what you liked, what you want to do more of), and not really address the negatives unless they are in the “if I have to do this one more time I will slit my throat” category. This memo will be a prelude to discussing training and job growth, so if you know what is relevant to the roles you want to move towards, it can be handy to focus on those things. If you don’t know what exactly people do in the next possible steps, it’s a good time to start exploring that. It’s never good to aim towards a particular role and then once you get there it’s really 75% about things you dislike and only 25% the stuff you love.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      The concept of “enjoyment” is so weird. It’s a JOB. Why is it anyone’s business if you’re feeing fulfilled, if your heart is pitter pattering…?

      In your mind, can you amend “enjoy” to mean “enjoy [because I like doing a good job]” and “enjoy [because it is good experience for my growth]” maybe?

      The things I really super enjoy at work are not the most important things, probably, BUT I feel good and satisfied when I do important things well.

    • Rather than listing specific tasks, you could frame this as, “The type of projects/work I typically like are things where…” and then list out some characteristics of what you like. Same thing for what you dislike, without going into specific tasks.

      I think he’s probably trying to be considerate in giving people assignments that they will hopefully enjoy or at least not hate. Besides the obvious risk of saying that you don’t like key functions of your job, I think you also run a risk of being too specific on the positive stuff and that backfiring as well. Like, if you mention that you always enjoy filing expense reports (lol) and that gets stuck in your boss’s brain, suddenly you’re managing expense reports for the entire department.

  23. Weekend Secret Post (Tell Us A Secret!) :

    A reminder to go anonymous if you want, to share support for others, and to check back throughout the weekend for more secrets and support!

    • Here’s mine: I told my (now) husband I wouldn’t marry him if he didn’t quit smoking. He was a pack-a-day guy and quitting was hard. Now he hasn’t smoked in 8 years or so. But also, now, when I travel for work, I end pretty much every night with a cigarette.

  24. Dress Me For A Date! :

    Help dress me for a date tomorrow night. I’m meeting a guy at a nice-casual bar, at night for drinks. We live in a city in the SEUS. Its cold here so no bare legs and would prefer pants.

    I was thinking cream silk tee, high waisted jeans and…? What shoes would you wear? Booties? Heels? Flats? I, also stuck on jewelry because I never know how to accessorize. I also have time to go buy something if this doesn’t sound right/good/cute.

    Help is greatly appreciated :)

    • Definitely booties. How about no necklace and dangly earrings that are sparkly and show up in a darkish location. And if you want more jewelry either a cuff or a ring (I’m imagining something rough here like a McQueen skull knockoff) on the first finger of your right hand. But not both cuff and ring.

      • A ring like this

        https://www.target.com/p/elya-stainless-steel-crystal-cocktail-ring/-/A-50722730

    • Tell me about your hair and makeup style

      • Dress Me For A Date! :

        Hair is a few inches below my shoulders, very straight. Makeup is super natural… I tend to go more for the J Crew makeup look: neutral/minimal eye makeup, natural looking skin, bright lip.

        What would you wear to stay warm? I have a black “leather” jacket, a bunch of cardigans, a n orchid wool kimono type thing…or just do a coat.

        AND what type of booties? I have brown ones with a chunky heel and an almond toe (J Crew), some tan perforated suede ones, and black pointyish ones that are kinda chunky/not as sleek as I want them to be.

        • Perforated sounds good. I think the leather jacket sounds perfect! I’d either do a lipstick or a little more eye makeup (not both) and not change up the hair.

          Good luck and tell us how it goes!!

          • Dress Me For A Date! :

            Date was good! The top I wanted to wear wasn’t dry in time, so I went with a black knit tunic top with a vneck front and back, skinny jeans, and black lace up heels. The guy was nice, but quiet, so I’m not sure how that will go since I’m an introvert as well.

            Thanks for your help, friends!

    • Earrings along these lines

      https://www.target.com/p/women-s-clear-pear-cubic-zirconia-drop-earrings-in-sterling-silver-clear-1-25/-/A-50121399

  25. Anonymous :

    So I discovered recently that my small law firm which waaay underpays me and offers zero benefits actually has a 401K but only the 2 partners, who are young (late 30’s) are participants. It’s a secret 401K/ was not offered to any associates. We have no support staff. I’ve been looking for a new job for a while but this just makes me want to report them to…someone! Grrrrr

    • Anonymous :

      Try the IRS. there are specific top-heavy testing that is supposed to happen to make sure the tax benefit isn’t only to the benefit of they wealthier employees. However – if your law firm is small enough, it may be a SIMPLE IRA or other non-401k retirement options offered to smaller business. But that’s the agency that I’d start with.

      I’d be totally steamed too.

      • Anonymous :

        It might be that and they referred to it as a “401K” colloquially, but the documents I stumbled upon were definitely in reference to a 401K

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Have you been there a year? Usually, they don’t have to offer it to employees until the employees have worked there a year.

  26. The payment won’t officially go through until Monday, but today I got my federal tax return and paid off my student loans! I’m hopefully soon moving to a HCOL city, so I’m very excited to be debt-free and out from under this massive-for-me monthly payment. I haven’t told any friends or family yet, but I’m bursting, so I decided to share here. I don’t post a lot, but I read regularly, and I’m so grateful for the advice from this community. Have a great weekend, all!

  27. How to make good work relationships? Joined in new firm (Am100) as a lateral hire. Finding it very hard to talk to coworkers . Most of the people won’t even smile back . On positive side, my boss and senior team to whom I report to are friendly. I have been getting positive reviews on my work from the partners and senior associates.

    I feel lonely and out of place here. I never had this kind of experience before . Today I received text from my previous boss, I was so tempted to ask if they could take me back .
    The pay in the new place is good and the firm is very reputed . But I am not sure if unfriendliness is worth it. It is affecting my confidence.
    Anyone had similar experience ? How did to overcome it ??

    • Do your coworkers talk to each other? If so, it may just be a matter of them waiting to warm up to you. Some offices have someone who is the welcoming committee and makes new people feel welcome, but other offices don’t and it can be tough until you get to know people.

      I’d focus on meeting up with friends for lunch while you get a better feel for your office (maybe it is really focused on work and no one ever talks, which can be tough). Not all offices end up being friendly, but if it’s drama free and everyone is professional, it can still be a great place to work—you’ll just have to get your chitchat in elsewhere.

      Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

      • Thank you for your response .
        Yes , they do talk to each other. I am tucked away in a corner . But I do hear them talking.
        A few of them step out for lunch together. I eat in the lunchroom all by myselves. Many of the coworkers eat at their desk.
        We had team lunch tlast week, and I ordered chicken. I had a few coworkers ask me “ do you eat chicken??? Thought you are a vegetarian since you are a Hindu “. Now I am kind of connecting everything . Is it the cultural thing?
        It is not a diverse place. No I don’t smell
        Curry 😀.Actually I don’t cook much (I hate cooking) . I am salad and quinoa person. I wear perfume . Currently wearing coach. Dress professionally. I have received a few compliments on my dresses and shoes .
        I was pulling my hair yesterday tthinking how to “break thre ice “. I feel i should give one more month before I cal quits .
        Off to watch Justin Timberlake.

        Have a great week ahead .

  28. *How did you overcome it ? Sorry for the
    Typos .

  29. 3Llawstudent :

    Are navy pinstripe suits outdated? I’m about to graduate from law school and go to a big firm and want a few suits that aren’t just solid navy or gray (I have those). There was a nice one on Brooks Brothers that I’m thinking of spending some of my tax return on, but I don’t know if its too formal?

    https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Pinstripe-Stretch-Wool-Pencil-Skirt/WL00230_____MISC_04_______,default,pd.html?Quantity=1

    • Mineallmine :

      No, that’s a subtle stripe, which is a classic. If you already have a couple of suits, you might want to wait to see the environment before investing in another one. However, you probably know this and may have summered at your new job, so you know the formality level already. Personally I rarely wore a suit in big law, as suit separates and very nice biz casual was already on the nicer end of my firms’ dress codes. Unless you know your firm is suits only, it’s hard to go wrong with a couple of nice blazers and skirts or pants to allow more variety.

      • 3Llawstudent :

        Yes, I summered there. And it is business casual most of the time. But my other suits are from either college or my early law school days and weren’t very nice so haven’t held up. I’ll be in litigation (and this is a firm where young associates attend hearings and client meetings surprisingly often), so I need a few nice ones. I’m also starting to invest in high quality separates, but I’m picky and so its a bit slow going. I also probably need to expand my range of stores/designers. I’m moving from the midwest to NYC, so while I consider myself relatively fashionable and put together for the midwest, I’m a bit anxious about looking the part in NYC.

  30. There is a LinkedIn Learning video called How To Make Them Love You At Work, which I have found to be helpful. Also, in my office the person who brings in bagels to the Monday morning meeting is the rockstar for the day.

    • Mineallmine :

      Am I an old for wishing people didn’t bring in food to work except maybe very rarely? It’s one more thing I have to resist in order to not gain weight on treats I don’t even want except that I’m walking by them throughout the day or staring at 500 calories of white carbs during a meeting. Not trying to be a downer, but it isn’t easy.

      • I am a semi-young who is right there with you. And I wish people would stop commenting when I politely reject these treats. Yes, I have the will power to not overeat. No, I don’t think it makes me better than everyone else. Stop telling me that I (unlike, I guess, other people at the office? That’s a rude insinuation.) can afford to eat that donut. I truly detest the office eating culture that turns cookies into bonding events akin to greek initiations. In addition, I absolutely hate presenting information to a crowd that is sleepy on bagels and cream cheese. Countless wasted hours.

  31. I love the Ella Moon white top with the choker neckline. It would be perfect for wearing under lawyer court robes. The small amount of material around the neck is easier to wear with robes than a full pointy collar with buttons that has too much material to cope with getting bunched up around the neck. The fabric is light weight so it would not add bulk under the vest and robe or be too hot -and after you leave court and take off your robes you have a pretty blouse.
    The choker neckline is also great to wear if you make videos of yourself doing something on You Tube as I do from time to time for my business , as it covers the neck while having a flattering open front and would not be distracting in a video. It looks great – feminine and flattering but not fussy.

  32. Serious cat question :

    Calling on the cat people who commented yesterday: I have a beautiful, long haired white cat (a Turkish Van). There is cat hair everywhere in the house and on my clothes! Most of my work clothes are black or navy. I am constantly using lint rollers, but sometimes I think I have it all but when I get to work and look in the mirror I still see hair. Clothes even come out of the dryer with hairs on them. I’m worried that my co-workers will think I’m the crazy cat lady. What do you to to stay on top of this? Should I get my cat a buzz cut? : ( Buy a Roomba for each room of the house?

    • Anonymous :

      Brush the cat a lot, give as high quality food as you can, vacuum frequently, and just accept you need a lot of lint rollers.

      • Make sure you get one of the soft rubbery brushes (they’re like grooming brushes for horses). They catch a TON of hair. The hardest thing for me with the Turkish Vans is the hair that just floats upward, so see if you can dip the brush in water a bit beforehand to weigh down the hair.

        Use this rubbery brush or a cheap squeegee to remove hair from furniture, rugs, carpeting, curtains. (Try this immediately after vacuuming to see just how much your vacuum is catching.)

        Consider the roomba. I’ve seen households pre- and post- robovac acquisition and noticed the difference!

    • We used to have a Malamute (that’s a 100 lb dog that sheds soft fuzzy white undercoat basically all year long). The year we got her is the year my wardrobe lost all colors darker than cement gray. This did make a big difference in looking neat and made the agony of looking presentable much less so. But yeah, 12 years later with the dog now gone, we still have boxes of lint rollers because we bought in bulk.

      If your cat is amenable – the best way to get loose hair out of them is not a vaccuum but a blower. It is truly the only thing that kept the house hair-free for more than 20 minutes. Will post link in comments.

      • https://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-VM12500-500-Watt-Portable/dp/B001U899IA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1517703204&sr=8-3&keywords=metro+vac+n%27+blo

    • Put towels or blankets on the couch and chairs where the cat hangs out. Don’t sit on these yourself without moving the towel.

      Don’t pet kitty when you are dressed for work and change immediately when you get home.

      I like lint brushes better than lint rollers for cat fur.

      You may not be down with this but my cats do not sleep on my bed. I sit on my bed to put my clothes on so I don’t want fur there. They are incredibly spoiled and have the run of the house but they don’t get to sleep with me and that’s just how it is.

    • This is probably obvious but just in case, keep another lint roller at work. I often get lint and cat hair from my coats on the way to work.

    • 3Llawstudent :

      I have a small (miniature?) white Persian cat. I have her shaved like a lion twice a year. She hates it, but tolerates it. They usually give her a anti-anxiety pill before and she does great. Then I brush her every morning with one of those long metal comb-looking brushes. She has gotten used to it. She knows when I’m sitting at my vanity doing my makeup that it is time to be brushed and jumps up and lets me and purrs the whole time. Then treats after to reinforce. I still have to use a lint roller (especially on wool), but its barely any hair at all now–either on my clothes or in my house.

  33. Men’s semen help us to have child. But beyond that, they are worthless 👎🏿😖💩

  34. I have read here for a long time but never posted and I need some help!
    Currently at my job, where I have worked for almost 15 years….I have been passed up for a promotion and it was given to a person who is unethical. She has actually been in trouble for things in the past and current management knows, but as other things come to light, no one seems to care! They think she is great and keep promoting her. I am not sure what to do!! I know some things that she has done recently but if I go to management, they won’t do anything (it’s obvious at this point they don’t care) and if I got to HR I think it could backfire on me. So what to do? I am having a hard time keeping my mouth shut. It is like high school now, so do I just move on? I am a very blunt, direct person, and I was even told by an old manager to sit and do my work and not worry about others.
    ***and this unethical thing has to do with money, a large corporation, and bribery***
    Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone been through something similar?? Thank you!!!

    • I think this is similar to what Senior Attorney says about people. Your work has shown you what it is and you need to accept that. You aren’t going to be promoted or rewarded for pointing out unethical behavior—instead they want you to turn a blind eye. It’s extremely unlikely your work will change, so you may want to start looking for a new job. Sorry, but your choices are to stay with a company that doesn’t have the same ethics as you or to leave.

    • I spoke to my dad about this. If it is about Bribery, a large corporation, and money, you can leave, but there are laws that protect you (AND PAY YOU) for turning in your company. Dad recomends you call the goverment to have them start a WHISTELBLOWER claim with either the SEC, the Department of Justice, the state attorney general or other government agencies that do this stuff for you, and you could collect $$$, a percentage of the fines that are leveed against the company. If youre on your way out, all the better! Dad says peeople have made a FORTUNE with these claims$$$, and it is very ethical to turn in your company for being unethical if they violate these laws.

      I did a littel research for you on the ABA website (even tho they banned me years ago), and here is a great article link telling you far more then I could on my own. Read it, and when you cash in, remember me, Ellen Barshevsky for hooking you up). I won’t even charge you a fee, but don’t tell the manageing partner! YAY! I have Dad help the HIVE whenever I can b/c I know that not everybody knows as much as my Dad!

      https://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_practice_series/an_introduction_to_whistleblower_qui_tam_claims.html

  35. Thank you. I think I needed to hear this from someone completely removed from the situation. You are right….it is unlikely they will change.

  36. US to London question. After looking online, it doesn’t appear that you need a visa. However, it says you need financial documents, letter from your employer, etc… Anybody traveled to London recently? What documents did you need to show? I’m visiting this summer.

    • Flats Only :

      Just for a quick tourist or business trip? Just your passport should suffice.

      • Just as a tourist. A few days and then to another country. There are comments online about being denied entrance due to finances.

    • For US citizens? I would be surprised. I was there a few weeks ago, as well as a couple of times last year and the year before, and I’ve never needed anything other than my passport.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m not sure where you’re reading this, but as a US citizen the only thing you need to travel to any EU country is a passport. The US makes citizens of a few EU countries get visas (not UK citizens, but Romania and Poland, etc.) so there have been threats in the past that the whole EU will impose visa requirements on Americans for reciprocity. But it definitely hasn’t happened yet, and nobody in the travel industry actually thinks it will happen because they need American tourist dollars too much.
      It’s absolute nonsense that you would need a letter from your employer (think about it – plenty of SAHMs, students and other people who aren’t employed travel).

  37. Outfit Challenge :

    For those of us who signed up late, can someone post the outfit challenge email today?

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