ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 257 Comments

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Side-Shirred Poplin Shirt

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A woman wearing a white long sleeve top and light denim pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A classic white shirt is a must-have for my office wardrobe, so I appreciate when brands offer a fun twist on the traditional fit. This side-shirred version from Loft gives a great shape while still looking work-appropriate.

I would pair this with a midi skirt or a great pair of trousers for a perfect business casual look. 

The top is $29.99, marked down from $69.95, at Loft and comes in sizes 00-18 and a few lucky petite sizes. 

Sales of note for 4/17:

  • Nordstrom – Beauty savings event, up to 25% off – nice price on Black Honey
  • Ann Taylor – Cyber Spring! 50% off everything + free shipping
  • Boden – 25% off everything (thru Sun, then 15% off)
  • Brooklinen – 25% off sitewide — we have and love these sateen sheets
  • Evereve – 1000+ items on sale, including lots from Alex Mill, Michael Stars, Sanctuary, Rails, Xirena, and Z-Supply
  • Express – $29 dresses
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  • Lands' End – 50% off full price styles and 60% off all clearance and sale – lots of ponte dresses come down under $25, and this packable raincoat in gingham is too cute
  • Loft – Friends & Family event, 50% off entire purchase + free shipping
  • Macy's – 25% off already reduced prices + 15% off beauty & fragrance
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257 Comments

  1. My two front rooms are a living room with a non working fireplace and a formal dining room. The front door opens into the living room but both rooms have a path of travel to the kitchen. The living room has two doors along the fireplace wall to a sunroom. So it has no long walls. And three paths of travel. How weird would it be to make that the dining room and have a front door open into it? And then use the dining room as a living room because it actually has walls and only one path of travel (and a chandeliers, which we put a coffee table under). AI does know the answer when I asked it.

    2. I’d hate coming direct into the living room. It’s worth trying it out, you can always swap it back. Do you eat in the formal dining room? If not, I’d find another use for that space?

      1. Now I’m wondering how other people have it. My prior places all enter into a living space. Once I had a tiny entry but it was just an appendage opening into a living area past a pinch point.

        1. Yeah, all but one of the houses I’ve lived in opened into the living room, out of at least ten I can remember, plus several apartments. The only one that didn’t had a stupid useless front room we never knew what to do with.

        2. Same. I was 43 before I moved into a place where you didn’t walk directly into a living space — might have to do with the size of the place you are buying?

          1. I guess my childhood home (1000 square foot cookie cutter home) did enter direct, but there was a bit of an entryway with the hall closet, etc. I always thought my parents should have created a more visual separation. But my UK flat + house all had separate hallways, with a door into the living area/kitchen. But that seems to be fire regs.

    3. I’m not sure how the walls determine how you want to use the space, but I flipped living and dining area for my house compared to how it was staged, and that has been the right choice for us.

      1. I think it’s that there isn’t a long wall to put a couch along if doorways interrupt the walls.

    4. The house I grew up in has the side door (which is the main door since it’s off the garage and patio and therefore gets the most use!) opening right into the dining room. My parents have lived there for 31 years and it’s been great. The room has three paths of travel (door, and then into the living room and the kitchen).

    5. how could AI possibly help with the physical feel of how you like to use your space??

      assuming you actually use both rooms for their intended purposes, just move the furniture around and try it. The only part that seems “weird” to me would be keeping the same chandelier in the middle of the living room, since a piece designed for a dining room is meant to hang too low for a living space.

      1. It may be in flux for a while, but a benefit of having a weird older house is that the ceilings are pretty high. OTOH, there are no overhead lights at all otherwise in either room.

      2. Right? This is a terrible use case for AI because it’s basically a matter of opinion.

        1. AI is so bad for the environment. There are a ton of great applications–I’m not anti-AI. But things like this make me just want to weep for what we’re actually doing.

      3. AI can also generate images so the person could use an image of their actual space and use AI to generate additional photos with the furniture arranged without moving it (and with specific colors, etc). I think people on this board just assume AI is like a web search.

        1. I was one who commented above. I understand what it can do, and perhaps I am just more visual than the average person, but I can ‘see’ this kind of change in my own head without needing to run a server farm to do it… how it feels when I’m actually physically occupying the space is what I need to do IRL.

    6. Walking into the dining room seems odd to me, but it depends how often you use the dining room – if your family mostly eats in the kitchen, it won’t be a big deal. My previous house had a tiny (microscopic) foyer which opened directly into the living room. Effectively the left 3-4 feet of the living room were used as a hallway to the back of the house. It didn’t bother me at all. If it bothers you, you could experiment with putting up a temporary half wall such as a short bookcase or room divider to see if that creates a separate foyer-like space.

    7. I would definitely switch. If you like it, move the chandelier. My front door opens into a small foyer and then the dining space. The only negative is that stuff tends to get dumped onto the dining table as we enter. We eat dinner there almost every night so it regularly gets cleared off, but it’s still a pain.

    8. I’d try it, but I’d also see if you can create an entry space that’s distinct from the dining room based on how you lay things out. I’d play with how you orient things, tables or screens, that kind of thing.

      1. Agree. If you don’t use it that much, get a small table and chairs to put on one side of the room, and an entry console table and runner for the side by the front door.

        One negative I can see is that if you have a big, accessible table right when you walk in, it will for sure become the dumping ground for everything.

    10. My neighbors did this in their house. It’s awkward to use and doesn’t look quite “right.” I think it might be better if they bought a different and smaller dining set, but then they might lose the feel of a dining room. They reconfigured their kitchen and living room, so now they are stuck.

    12. Can you float the couch perpendicular to the long wall with a console table behind it? Then you’d have a little spot for your keys and it wouldn’t feel like you were walking into the living room in such an extreme way.

    13. You float two love seats in the middle of the room facing each other but perpendicular to the fireplace. Then you can place other small furniture along the small walls you have (console table, secretary desk or bookshelf, game table, etc)

    14. Not quite what you’re describing, but in our old house you walked through the front door into a hallway that was wide open to the dining room — so, dining was the first thing you saw and you were *rightnext* to the table. It was great/felt normal. Definitely move furniture around and see what you think! Can always swap back.

  2. I am taking the plunge and switching from a shoulder strap bag to a backpack – physical therapist recommended. I am fairly petite (5’1″) and am already mistaken for a student (I’m a partner). Any choice you think will not make me look younger? Does leather squeak? Are any of the options previously recommended here actually easy to adjust/short enough for me, while long/big enough for a laptop? In addition to my commute, I walk 6 blocks for hearings almost every week. No one in my area wheels a bag unless it is a jury trial. I can’t keep carrying everything in a briefcase or shoulder bag.

        1. agree – to the point that if you go with it, also get some kind of small charm to put on one of the zippers to help distinguish from all the other ones! I love mine: right amount and size of pockets and well made. Mine is going on 10+ years at this point.

    2. I’d not care who else is wheeling what and get a rolling bag. It’s your back to take care of. Who cares what other people do.

      1. I’ve been team backpack for over a decade, and am not an expert, but I also travel a lot with a carry on rolling suitcase:
        I feel like rolling a bag is honestly not great for your back over time either (with the one arm pulling back awkwardly and unevenly with the rest of your body). For traveling because you have to, fine; but I can’t imagine for day to day it’s better than an evenly distributed back pack.

      2. Yep. Much happier with my small roller bag. I hate how the backpack pulls on my suit jacket.

      1. Yeah, the Rowledge is excellent. Their prices right now are nuts, but it’s a fantastic bag that has held up extremely well.

    5. I work in the Beacon Hill area in boston and walk through the financial district to get there. the VAST majority of people i see out anda out during rush hour are wearing business clothes and carrying backpacks (myself included). often the backpacks have a law firm name or investment bank logo on them. you will be fine.

      also, are you really going to be carrying it around your office all day or just for commuting? if the latter, in my opinion its not really “part of your outfit” anyway. but ive never really been into desgner bags and purses for this reason; as long as its sturdy and functional and a subtle color its fine.

      1. sorry i realised i didnt actually answer your question. Im 5’2” and I have a backpack from Topo Designs that ive been using for 3 years and really like.

    6. Samsonite makes a black nylon Tumi backpack dupe that is much, much cheaper. It’s not a very big (width) backpack though–I would look at business backpacks that have support if you’re carrying heavy files to hearings. The Samsonite backpack is great and has held up super-well.

      1. Cole Haan has great backpacks both in black and in some interesting color combinations. Leather or scuba. I like scuba because it’s light!

    7. I love my Briggs & Riley Rhapsody in black. It’s smallish for a backpack, but still fits my laptop along the back side. Black nylon to me feels work appropriate but still light and easy, versus leather which seems aggressive in a full backpack.

    8. I switched to a work backpack for health reasons too and didn’t do leather because it is sooo much heavier than other materials. I love my nylon Tumi Voyageur and the coordinating crossbody in navy blue.

  3. A former high school classmate moved in down the street from me, and I know I should invite him and the wife over for drinks or something but my house is dirty – last time we had friends over we cleaned for an entire day straight. Am I missing something else obvious? I’m married with a kid at same public school as him and in some of the same activities. In high school we were in a lot of the same honors classes so I knew him (and we went in a small group trip abroad for a week) but I wouldn’t say we were friends. (Also a bit worried he’s Very Catholic while I’m Very Liberal.)

    2. If it’s still warm enough to eat or drink outside, you can do that, otherwise have coffee, drinks, or a meal at a favorite neighborhood restaurant, bar, or coffee shop.

      1. They’ll probably go in to use the bathroom if you host outside.
        I agree with the suggestion of a neighbourhood spot for drinks as a fallback if you are just too busy to clean your damn house. (I am too busy to clean my damn house so I just hide everything in one room and only clean the parts that people care about (kitchen, bathroom)

        1. Yeah, if your house is so gross that they can’t even use your bathroom, then the problem isn’t how to entertain your neighbors, it’s how to clean your house. I understand the house not being spotless, but unless you have a health condition or something else that prevents you from cleaning, it should be possible to at least make your bathroom useable, since you also have to live in this house.

          1. Eh I think “usable” and “wanting to show to company” are pretty different.

          3. I don’t think this is a fair (or kind) comment. My house is clean – I have a cleaning lady who comes every two weeks – but I do not have an “insta worthy” house and I frankly I hate having people over any more. I have kids and I have clutter. Nothing in our house is white. Our furniture mostly doesn’t match. Our kitchen is dated maple (the horror). But people are so stupidly judgey now.

          4. But why do you want these super judge-y people for your friends? I would never judge you for this. I also have a lived in house, and that is what normal people have. Or do you just want superficial Instagram friendships?

            I am old enough to have lived my 20s in pre-Instagram. NO ONE CARES!

          5. For me it’s because I moved to a different part of the country and people seem to be more formal and more judgy here. It’s not my culture, but it sucks to offend people because things convey a different meaning? To me it feels like how in some cultures it’s more polite to run late and in others it’s a huge insult.

          6. No one is offended by your bathroom having ratty hand towels or whatever, and if they are, they just won’t come back. Not your problem and not a reason not to host.

          7. Or they will come back, but I’ll be fielding a bunch of comments, or they’ll start hosting at their place, but asking me when I’ll be ready to host… It’s just a different set of expectations.

          8. No one I know would be offended by ratty towels or baseboards that need to be dusted.

            I would be humiliated because I have higher standards but not the time and energy to meet them.

          9. OK, and none of that is actually an issue unless you have a big ego that finds it offensive.

    3. Do you have to invite him over? Is there a neighborhood bar you can walk to for a casual dinner and drink instead?

    5. I would invite over for something outside.

      Also why is your house in such a state if it bothers you? Can you make an effort to clean it up over a period of a few weeks or months and keep it clean? If you didn’t care, I wouldn’t care, but it sounds like you do care.

    6. Very Catholic can mean many different things. I’m from a very Catholic area and it includes all types and they seem to all fit without sharp elbows under a broad umbrella. He also chose an area where you are, so similar values for neighborhoods and public schools, no?

      1. Also in a very Catholic area, and I agree that this can include many things, but at least in my area, if they chose it for the schools, it’s for the Catholic schools, not the public schools. They might still be quite liberal, though.

        1. Nevermind , I guess she says he had a kid in school with her kid. Though in my neighborhood it’s very common to bounce back and forth between Catholic elementary and public high school or vice versa.

      2. Yeah contrasting very Catholic with very liberal makes it seem as though being very liberal somehow makes someone less Catholic, which is very demonstrably not the case.

        I get that some conservatives want to say they’re the Catholicist of all, just like some conservatives want to say they’re the only true Americans, but it’s best not to agree with them! I assume she means he’s that type though.

          2. Many Catholics are, though. Most Catholics use birth control. Many think priests should be able to be married. It’s pretty common to disagree with the church.

          4. You absolutely can. Being Catholic doesn’t prescribe somebody’s politics or what they think the role of government or the law should be. Traditionally Catholic thinking draws strong boundaries between what’s a family concern and what’s a concern of the state.

          5. There are lots of married Catholic priests in the eastern rite. (But they get married first. There aren’t priests looking to get married.)

          6. Many Catholics don’t follow church teachings, but that doesn’t change church teachings. If they want that, there are a slew of Protestant churches that will welcome them.

          8. Destantis – because Catholics, like most people, are terribly inconsistent hypocritical sinners and both a) convince themselves that wrong things are not actually wrong and b) choose to do those wrong things anyway
            Tale as old as time.

          9. What’s the point of belonging to a church if you don’t believe in its tenets? Weird.

          12. Even the Pope thought Biden needed to talk to his pastor about his incompatible beliefs.

        2. I don’t think this is fair. The Catholic church has official stances; it’s anti-choice and doesn’t support gay marriage. While you can be Catholic and believe in and vote for both those things, it’s unlikely that’s someone who is known socially as “very” Catholic is going to. Most Catholics I know practice theirs like almost every other religion; it’s a mix of tradition and socializing and it doesn’t really impact their worldview or politics. But someone who is “very” Catholic is unlikely to disagree with the hot button issues the church has taken a very clear side on. In my experience that’s a “very” Catholic person’s favorite part; the religious and even scholarly justification for what others deem harmful or bigoted. I don’t think op should avoid this person but yeah it’s absolutely fair to anticipate he has strongly held beliefs that differ from hers.

          1. Their getting pushed around by the USCCB doesn’t make somebody more Catholic. And if their politics are hostile to immigrants or the poor, they’re actually not very Catholic at all.

          2. Honestly, when someone’s bumper sticker say they’re Catholic and they vote do you think they mean anything but voting anti-choice? Because I don’t. It’s fine for you to say others are interpreting their religion wrong but they have actual priests who tell them to vote against women’s rights. And you’ll never be one.

          3. Or they have priests who aren’t telling them to vote against women’s rights.

            I’m still hopeful that Pope Leo will address some of what’s gone wrong in the USA.

          4. You can be hopeful but please be realistic. Right now the church is not endorsing anything close to what a “very liberal” American calls gay or women’s rights. It’s fair to anticipate that a “very Catholic” person won’t support them either. If OP’s neighbor shares your views it’s a very pleasant surprise but the most high profile American Catholic clergy do not.

        3. Oh yes – all those priests being assaulted by ICE and accompanying immigrants to court are clearly either really conservative or not really Catholic.

          I recognize the tendency to treat abortion as the sole litmus test on whether someone is a conservative or liberal but religion is not generally so simple.

      3. I’m Very Catholic and probably the most liberal voter in my wider neighborhood.

    7. Such a narrow perspective to only be friends with people who are exactly like you. Also, not very liberal either. Clean your house too, not just for entertaining but because that’s gross not to.

      1. Nah you’re not obligated to befriend people you have fundamental moral disagreements with. Matters of taste are not morals.

        Some of my friends are Swiftes (I loathe her music) but none of my friends are fascists.

          3. He said we have to love everyone, not that we have to like them. He ate with everyone from tax collectors and sinners to hypocritical religious authorities, but when he wanted a break he just hung out with his twelve besties.

    8. Just bring over treats and say hi? There’s no rule you have to host a new neighbor. Have a nice time catching up about intervening life, what brought them to the neighborhood, etc. and save Big Topics for if you actually grow close. You also may be pleasantly surprised that faith and general liberal views are not mutually exclusive.

      1. This is what I would do. I don’t think you are required to invite them over or host them anywhere. It is a nice neighborly thing to do though to stop by and bring a treat or something.

    9. I don’t get how, but being very Catholic and very liberal aren’t mutually exclusive. I personally left the Catholic Church and became Episcopalian because I couldn’t square the church’s harmful and antiquated views but plenty of people somehow do

    11. Why do you have to do this at all? Take over a welcome to the neighborhood gift if you want to acknowledge them without socializing.

      1. +1 totally setting aside religion and politics it sounds like you aren’t really close enough to host them, and that’s fine.

    12. It sounds like you’re anxious about something, maybe even something subconscious. If this was really just about reconnecting with an old classmate, you’d just invite them out for a drink or coffee, have a conversation about where your lives are at 25 or 30 years down the line, and be done with it.

      Is this about the state of your house? Get help for the house, or go out, or have a backyard fire-pit hangout.
      Is this about being in very different places values-wise? You might find you have more in common than you think, especially with kids.
      Are you anticipating awkwardness if it doesn’t go well and you have to be neighbors forever? You may not interact as much as you think. It took me an entire year to even meet one of the families on my street when we first moved, and now we’re great friends.

    13. Op – thanks for the comments. Should have clarified – we’re in the burbs, meeting at bar would be very strange here. Open floor plan house. (Huge mistake, at least for us.) Cleaners come every two weeks but we tend to just move stuff around for the cleaners instead of putting it away. (Also a huge mistake I know.) I also seem to be the only one in the house who knows where anything goes.

        1. we don’t use the outdoor space very much so it isn’t very polished — a lot of the neighbors have pools and pergolas and $50k worth of landscaping, whereas ours has whatever lousy firepit his mom found on sale and some rusted furniture we bought 10 years ago and never actually sit in anyway. the trellises from last year’s attempt at gardening are still on the patio, the stairs are dirty… ugh.

          i think someone hit the nail on the head when they said it’s fine for us but it isn’t instagrammable. last time we moved we literally had movers come and take 50-70% of our stuff before we took sale pictures. (it worked though we got an offer in one weekend ha.)

          yes husband and i have said we need to walk around and figure out where the place is for everything, and if it doesn’t have a place make a place by getting rid of other stuff or just put it in the give away pile. but then the giveaway pile ends up being a lot of crap our parents gave us or the kids, which makes us feel bad. (my parents feel like they are contractually obligated to spend $500 per kid every major holiday. it’s exhausting because they don’t want that much stuff.)

      3. Are there no bars in your suburb? I can walk to 3-4, but plenty of people drive to them too…

      4. Take a weekend and work through the fair play deck; or have your kid establish places for all their stuff; or [together] all of you label all the cabinets and storage spaces so you’re not the only one who knows where anything goes! That is an unfair and unsustainable position for you to be in, and sounds like maybe the root of the problem

    14. Maybe this is colored by the fact that I now live in the town I grew up in and I run into this scenario of seeing former classmates quite a bit, but I don’t believe that you’re obligated to host just because you knew each other in high school. I think it’s nice if you truly want to and feel like you want to know them better. We sometimes have neighbors over for a bonfire and drinks, so as long as you clean your nearest entry and bathroom you’d be good.

    15. I would be appreciative and happy if an old classmate a) noticed that I’d recently moved in down the street and b) invited me over for a drink! I would not be judging their house cleanliness.

      Invite in confidence!

    17. I’m in the burbs. Have them over for wine by the firepit outside. Make sure there is no visible trash or grime (like, dirt you can see) between your outdoor space and the bathroom. Make sure your toilet is clean and you have hand towels and toilet paper. Done.

      I gave up on having my counters totally clean years ago. Before we have company I go around with a laundry basket and throw all the clutter in there. Family can deal with their clutter later.

  4. I heard a rumor that there are Vuori dupe joggers at Costco. Anyone care to confirm or deny if they’re truly similar feel/quality?

    2. Similar in fabric feel, different in fit (wider and shorter). I bought two when they were available online because I was excited to have found them, and passed both to my (shorter) teenage daughter.

    3. Got some last year. They are full length on me while my (admittedly old) Vuori joggers are ankle length. Slightly different shape, same fabric feel. Totally worth the cheaper cost b/c they are athleisure. I’d try them if I were you!

  5. Do you prefer to be the big fish in a small pond or small fish in a big pond? Has that changed throughout your life?

    I’m having these conversations with my late elementary child as she’s applying for honors middle schools. She’s very smart (but not a genius) and gets top grades without any effort at her regular elementary but she’s nervous about no longer being “the smart kid” at an honors school.

    I always preferred to be the small fish in a big pond and built my life around that, but recently took a step back in my career to focus on my family and am in a job that’s frankly too easy for me. I’m getting so much praise for “going above and beyond” when I feel like I’m doing the minimum and it feels great! It doesn’t hurt that I finish my work — including “extra projects” I get asked to do — in 20-30 hours a week and then can just chill.

    1. I was a magnet-school, highly selective college, ‘small fish in a big pond’ kid and then did the same in my early career as well. I still find a lot of value in being challenged, but it’s more nuanced as an adult. I can find a challenge in being on the leadership team at a small company, and it’s a different challenge than if I was working my way up at a giant multinational.

      You’re probably already doing some of this, but some suggestions that might work with your kid:
      – Validating that you value your kid for who they are, not how well they do in school
      – Highlighting the value of being challenged in the school context, and also some of the interesting opportunities that might be more open to her at an honors school vs other options

    2. in the middle? There’s no challenge if you’re the smartest one in the room. Like the ability to dive into problems with a bunch of smart peers and actually relish the process is fun.

      1. I’m currently the big fish and I’m so bored. My ‘peers’ are dumb as rocks. I don’t have anyone to intellectually challenge me and I think my work suffers because of it. When I used to be a small fish having other smart folks to bounce ideas off of and challenge me made my work so much better.

    3. I don’t know that I have a true preference, but specifically for your daughter, I went to a small-town hick school where I was definitely under-challenged, and I’ve long bemoaned that. I’m someone who does better when challenged (my grades were higher relative to my peers in law school than high school), and I think I developed a lot of lazy habits by not having to try very hard in school. It’s worked out, of course (and I often think as a middle-aged mom, I’m probably living a better life as an in-house than I would in the big law world I missed), but I do wish I had been challenged to reach my potential more earlier in life.

    4. I was by far the best student at my small public school and it was really lonely by the time I was 12-13. I switched to a more academically challenging school where there were a lot of people better than me and it was such a relief to (1) be challenged and (2) not stand out as much. Different strokes for different people but I would pick small fish in a big pond every time.

    5. I was a small fish in a big pond – went to a large top-rated public university. My friends who went to smaller and/or less competitive schools got more research opportunities and experience. My niece is pre-med and wants to go to the same school as me but I am encouraging her to consider smaller schools or schools where she can get a good scholarship.

    6. The earlier in life you can be in the big pond, the better off you are. People get walloped when they don’t encounter there big pond for decades. You can choose the small pond as you age, but you need to know what the big sea is.

    7. I was bored out of my mind in elementary & middle school, and I honestly just thought that was what school was “supposed” to be like. It was mind opening – and really changed the course of my life – when I realized I got to a high school with accelerated placements – I just honestly hadn’t realized how good learning at the edge of your capacity could feel.

      I know my parents had asked me in middle school if they wanted me to push the school to offer something more challenging (and I was in a subpar district with no advanced/gifted/pullout groups programs) and I always told them I was fine, and please don’t – but for middle schooler reasons, aka I didn’t want to feel any more different than my peers than I already did, I was afraid of “being a bad kid” by causing “problems” for my teachers, and I was pretty sure “advanced” work would mean “here, fill out *even more* of these worksheets that are already boring”. In retrospect, I wish I had said yes, but I just didn’t have the experience or maturity to know what a better education might actually look like. Sharing this as a point that your daughter’s preference is important, but she may not have a good sense of what she is actually choosing at this age.

    8. I’ve always preferred being the big fish in the small pond. Or more realistically, medium fish in the medium pond.

    9. I prefer big fish in a small pond for my career, but I went to a rural school that wasn’t academically challenging. She may not be the “smart kid” in her school, but a more rigorous school sets her up better for college. Chances are high she wouldn’t be the “smart kid” then either and it’s harder to adjust.

      In my career, I want to be able to do challenging work. I have been in a big pond for about a year and the consequence of that is that I’m being given work I was doing a decade ago in smaller ponds. It’s frustrating because I keep saying I want to do more and don’t have those opportunities. Mostly because the dynamics of work are about pre-existing relationships and not always experience level. I just prefer environments where I will be challenged.

    10. My parents always pushed being a big fish in a small pond. But the reality is larger schools (in general) tend to have more programs, larger alumni networks, more structured internships and career coaching, and greater name value among employers. And larger employers tend to have more structured training programs, better health insurance and other benefits, and more opportunities for upward mobility. As I’ve gotten older, I’m very much team bigger pond in most instances.

    11. I think it depends on the setting. I love working in a small, niche legal field where people know each other, or at least of each other. It’s not all about competition in the pond at all – I do love winning, of course, but it’s also about understanding repeat players, getting to know smart people well, and having a sense of collegiality along with the competition. But as an 18-year old coming from a smaller high school where I was one of the smart kids, I was so happy to join the middle of a very large pack of smart kids in college. I felt like the anonymity gave me freedom to try new things and sometimes not do well without being embarrassed in front of everyone who had certain expectations of me, and I loved how much more I learned when I wasn’t the smartest kid in the class anymore.

    12. Small fish in a big pond in adulthood, for sure.

      As someone who grew up as a big fish in a small pond (at least as far as school was concerned), I found it stifling and isolating to be the only person interested in some things (e.g., seeing the world outside our state) and the village critics were intense and super opinionated.

      That said, I do like living in a community where I know plenty of people and they know my spouse and my kids. It’s not completely enmeshed but neither is it truly anonymous.

      As for kids, I think it’s good to have a balance. My own kids were the “smart kids” in elementary, but as they got into middle and high schools, they were part of a group of smart kids. They are ahead in some subjects and on track in others. The social scene was also important to me – no one at their high school seems super stuck up about attending that school and there are so many different kids doing so many different things that there is very little bullying. And the farther you get from school, the more you realize that even if you are very bright, some people are just brighter than you are.

    13. I definitely did well as a big fish in a small pond – it meant that people had expectations of me that I felt I had to live up to, so I did. I also ended up being handed a lot of opportunities that I wouldn’t have otherwise sought out (an ethics debate competition, physics olympiad, etc.) because I was a smart and socially adept kid and they wanted to make the school look good so they asked if I could be involved when they needed an extra kid to complete the team. If I’m too anonymous I very easily slide into “eh, good enough” territory, and I imagine that if I was in those high achieving groups I would have easily gotten lost in the shuffle and feel like I didn’t need to excel in the same way I did as the “big fish.”

    14. I want to know what your new job is! Did it have an impact on your budget and how did you handle it?

  6. Does anyone have recs for black pants that are comfortable, full length, and not leggings or athletic-looking joggers? looking for something I can wear to my casual job where I end up sitting and typing a lot. I wear a lot of jeans but black jeans aren’t what I want for this… would prefer something that feels natural-ish (so not like the slick ponte from quince) but some stretch would also be great, so I’m open to suggestions on material!

      1. ooh I’ve actually been eyeing these! did you size regularly or up? I’m a little worried about them being tight in the lower waist/crotch area…

    2. J. Crew Factory Lizzie high-rise patch-pocket wide-leg pant. They’re woven, cotton (cottony?) but have some stretch. I found them true to size.

    3. I am really happy with the Old Navy Pixie line of pants. This coming from someone who hasn’t bought anything but a few activewear pieces from ON since post-college. They’re so comfortable and decent quality, and always on sale.

    4. Athleta endless high rise. They are cut to be ankle length, but you could always get the long (I am 5’9″ and wear the regular length ones for a true ankle fit – the longs are full length on me)

  7. Hmm, I actually have two shirts very similar to this one that I bought from the Express and/or the Limited in approximately 2004, that I always really liked but at some point just stopped wearing (but never got rid of, since I did really like them and they seemed in fine shape). I was just looking at one the other day thinking I should pull it back out again.

          1. I feel like unless you already take items to the dry cleaners, sending items out to be ironed is more work than just doing it yourself.

    2. I love the style in theory, but only if it is not as wrinkled and messy as the picture looks. Crisp would be fabulous.

    3. I def owned this in salmon pink, from one of those two stores, in 2003, and I wore it for my senior portraits taken that summer.

      I loved that damn shirt. Won’t be buying this one because my body is no longer 17 and this would be not a great look on me anymore for reasons haha (two of them, much bigger than they used to be)

  8. Just had a massive fight with my husband and I feel terrible about it. Tips for reconciling? Ugh today sucks.

    3. Yeah, there are few fights that aren’t solved by “I’m sorry and I love you”. Even if he was wrong too. Once we simmer down we both acknowledge our mistakes and find the best way forward. Sometimes it’s hard to do, but it works.

    4. Give yourself time to calm down. Use a bit of gentle humor if you can when you’re diffusing things – an inside joke about grape seltzer or whatever little thing.

    5. Tell him you’re sorry for the way you acted. Tell him that you feel terrible and gross about it. Say you’re sorry.

    6. go apologize sincerely for whatever – overreacting, whatever – assuming you’re feeling terrible about having picked the fight as opposed to the underlying issue.

    9. Further detail about “say you’re sorry” – even I know I’m right, I say that I’m sorry the conversation devolved into a fight (true) and I love him (true) and I want to be a good team (true). Then I suggest putting a pin in the issue (revisit at X time if it’s something with a deadline or that keeps coming up) and doing something lighthearted and nice together before then – my husband and I like to play cooperative games and it puts us in the right mindset of “we can work well together and we are a good team.”

  9. On Sunday, I applied for a job for which I am an excellent fit. I talked to a friend of mine who works at the company and is familiar with the job opening on Wednesday, and he forwarded my resume to the head of the department doing the hiring. I know from our conversation that the department head is OOO this week and they aren’t expected to even start looking at applicants until next week. But I just received an automated rejection email from Workday, the application software, telling me they’ve “moved forward with an applicant who better suits our needs.” HR glitch? Should I follow up with my contact? I don’t want to be a Nervous Nelly for no reason!

    1. I would follow up with your contact and explain what happened. Hopefully it is just a glitch. Good luck!

    2. Move on. You have been rejected. Say nothing to your friend until a week after the hiring manager is back.

      On another note, the recruitment process at companies is entirely broken. I’m not the problem when I qualify for 600+ jobs I’ve applied for and don’t get call backs for at least 50 positions. Something is seriously wrong. Either they aren’t real jobs or I’m being discriminated against for some reason.

      1. Anon @ 10:57 – wait, if you got callbacks for 550/600 jobs you are a) doing fantastic and b) should probably have an offer by now — that’s a ratio that would encourage me to ask a friend to do a practice interview or check on my references or something – your resume/cover letter/initial application materials seem like they’re on point

        1. I read this as “I was expecting CBs for at least 50/600 but didn’t even get that.”

          1. ahh that would make more sense and now I can parse the sentence that way. Sorry!

            (10:57 for what it’s worth my callback rate is also <10% in this job search. I get it, it's discouraging!)

        2. Perhaps she meant if she didn’t get a call back from at least 50 out of the 600 jobs for which she is qualified and applied.

      2. Don’t listen to someone applying for 600 jobs. Call your friend and it’s likely a glitch.

    3. Workday probably does an initial auto-screen of the applicants, and for whatever reason, your resume didn’t make the cut. I think you could still say something to your contact – maybe he can get the hiring manager to take a second look.

      That being said, if it were me, I would tend to operate under the assumption that this job is not going to work out.

    4. Definitely check with your friend at the company. If he forwarded your resume to the department head, then he’s at least a little invested in helping you out. There are so many possible reasons you were rejected – internal candidate, you didn’t meet the screening requirements, position is being cut, someone clicked the wrong button in Workday – but having a friend on the inside means that you may still make it to an interview, and even if you don’t, you may be able to learn what happened.

    5. Definitely reach out to your contact. We just hired someone whose resume was rejected by the ATS bc she reached out to a contact.

    6. My understanding is that there can be a huge disconnect between what HR or AI thinks the hiring manager wants and what the hiring manager actually wants.

      I would let the friend know in a neutral way. Thank him for forwarding your resume and say that you got a Workday rejection email. No hard feelings – you’re glad he helped you out.

      1. Ugh that is depressing but 100% believable. I applied for a number of jobs this spring that I was totally qualified for. In the past I would’ve at least gotten a few phone interviews out of it. This time I got nothing (and I don’t think they were all fake jobs, and while many people may have applied it’s a fairly specialized field, and some I was surely only one of a very few local candidates)

    8. A very similar scenario happened to me. Applied on Friday; talked to friend who is in the department doing the hiring; he put my name in the referral system on Monday; rejected by AI on Monday afternoon. I mentioned it to friend, who said that he doesn’t have control over the hiring process. The same job got re-posted a few weeks later, and then re-re-posted again. My field is small, and I know other qualified colleagues applied. My only takeaway is that AI screening is brutal, and employers are losing out (as am I, obviously). It sounds like your situation is slightly different if your resume was forwarded directly to the department head, so may be worth reaching out if you have enough capital with your friend. At worst, you’ll get confirmation of rejection.

    9. Same thing happened to me. A high-up contact recommended me and sent my resume to the hiring manager. I got a rejection less than 8 hours later. The admin reached out (only because of these contacts) and explained that they had already been interviewing for a week and were just waiting for a signed offer letter back from the top applicant. On a related note, if anyone knows how to filter linkedin for jobs posted in the last X days, I’d love to know.

  11. Chapter 13 here. How do you battle imposter syndrome when starting a new job? I’m starting a new job on Monday with a Big 4 (yay!) but I am suddenly riddled with anxiety that I won’t be as smart as they thought, won’t be as great as they thought, etc. I’m trying to tell myself that they hired me for a reason.

    Something that’s bothering me and not helping – I was out last night with a group of friends and a friend of a friend had previously worked for this firm. He only worked there for a year fresh out of college and was in a completely different business line than where I will be. But he shared he had a bad experience and while that did not bother me (we won’t even remotely be working with the same people) he gave a retort that did hurt. I shared that I, so far, have had a good experience and really vibed with my interviewers. I even received a verbal offer on the spot during the second interview because they liked me so much and we got along so well. To that, he rolled his eyes and said “yeah, they were probably desperate.” It was just really rude and it did sting. His comment is starting to mess with me and my imposter syndrome that I was already struggling with.

    1. Sounds like he can’t handle a woman who is better and more capable than he is. A lot of young men are like this.

      In a very weird way, it’s a compliment.

    3. I’m sorry he was a buttface. He’s napping his feelings onto you — you don’t have to pick up the tray of crap he’s set down.

    4. Hmm, sounds like this guy lacks either the self & social awareness to understand rude things to say, or the self control to not actually say them anyway. Not surprised a job didn’t work out for him! But *you* recognize that was a really rude thing to say, and wouldn’t have said it, I think you’ll do just fine :)

    5. He’s a jerk, ignore him. I worked in Big4 for 15+ years before moving in house and one of the things that I give them a lot of credit for is that they are very commited to training and being very explicit around structure, approach, templates to use, etc. You will have access to lots of training, files of previous docs to review/learn from, and coaching from your team. You’ll be expected to learn fast, take feedback (and act on it), and synthesize quickly but it’s not rocket science. You’ll do great!

    6. That was a really rude thing for him to say. Not to excuse him, but I bet this comment is more a reflection on his awful experience (he had a bad experience = bad workplace = must be desperate to hire b/c turnover) than you. Do your best to blow that off.

      As for imposter syndrome … all I can say is that ever since I moved to a corporate role I am stunned, just absolutely stunned, by how incompetent and/or lazy almost everyone seems to be. After observing how my boss managed to fail up into this role and some how find “success” (at least on paper) despite being how he is, I can’t believe I ever experienced imposter syndrome.

    7. This is a comment that reflects more on him than you. A confident person wouldn’t say that. He’s blaming the company for his bad experience and completely absolving himself of any role. Like 11:03, I speculate he wouldn’t have been quite as offended if someone he sees as his equal, like another man, had your experience.

    8. Some people really like to rain on your parade. I work at a very large international company, and someone I know had a bad experience with the company in a completely different office/department. When I was hired and shared with my friends, they made so many snarky comments about how I made a mistake and was going to hate it. It’s by far the best job I’ve ever had.

    9. He was rude (I cannot type out what I really think)!
      It is normal to have imposter syndrome for the 1st three months.
      You are going to shine!

    10. I joined a big 4 firm recently. Before I started, a friend made negative comments about a family member who had a bad experience there (similar to what happened to you!). Remember, people’s experiences vary wildly depending on line of service, team, and role. So don’t take these stories to heart because they may have zero application to your life. Other than an intense onboarding experience the first week, my job has actually been pretty slow with lots of time for training. There are formalized processes for everything. I’m trying to trust this will work out rather than tune into every little fear. People have been friendly and smart. Not a shark tank environment yet anyways! And at least the pay and benefits are good! I’ve worked at very stressful jobs for less than half of what I’m making now. It’s a relief to be working at a company that has a viable business model and strong reputation.

      1. I worked in Big 4 for years and the experience is completely different across departments. Comparing the work you do, the types of clients, your team’s culture, etc. is usually apples and oranges. If this guy wasn’t on your team his opinion means nothing. Plus it’s often an easier adjustment for experienced hires, who the hiring team is confident can do the work, vs. a class of recent college grads that just took the job for prestige

    11. Anyone who has been a consultant will tell you there is a very WIDE ability level in any organization. So, don’t feel like you won’t measure up.

      Not knowing your friend, I will say that there are many bad managers in firms (as there are other places). You can have a very different experience by client, account, leader, etc. in my case, the people are fine but there is no clear promotion or placement path. People who have been in other accounts say it’s very different. For a person who prefers knowing what I should be working toward, I find our structure irritating and wouldn’t recommend it to other people so maybe he just had a frustrating experience. He shouldn’t have taken that on you though.

    12. A lot of people don’t like these kinds of jobs because they don’t understand what they are – good training and a way to burnish your resume for the next move. Go in with a positive attitude and take what you can from the role. You’ll be fine.

  12. Looking for casual v neck t shirts with vs that are both wide and deep (or at least deepish). Don’t need to be able to wear this to the office, just for casual stuff. Could be my own poor shopping skills, but much of what I’m finding these days is pretty narrow, and what isn’t narrow is quite shallow. Neither of those quite works for me.

    1. Try the Gap, which has gotten good again. The neckline on the organic cotton vintagesoft t shirt looks like what you’re describing.

    3. JCrew factory and JCrew have my favorite v-necks, but short sleeve, they are seasonal. They’re quite deep. Boden also has very deep v’s. (They currently have a super-deep velvet v with lace trim that is so gorgeous!).

      I also really like jcpenney’s three-quarter sleeve v-necks. St. John’s Bay. good price to quality ratio.

    4. Old Navy has this right now. I was so pleased to find this neckline, and the quality was more what I’d expect from Gap than ON.

    5. Velvet from Graham and Spenser makes a t shirt like that. I’ve been able to get them on Amazon.

  13. Favorite knock off air pods? I need something in the interim while i keep looking for mine

    1. Go without and feel the natural consequences of losing them for a while so when you do find them, you’re more mindful of what you do with them.

      1. Wow. Really nailed the unnecessarily rude and judgy tone you were going for, Anon @11:42. You can log off now, your work is done.

          1. She is. Sometimes you lose things through no fault of your own and even if it is your own fault punishing yourself doesn’t lead to more discipline.

          2. Lmao, it is not “punishing yourself” to wait to replace something that you still are holding out hope you might find.

          3. In my experience the best way to find something I’ve lost is to buy a replacement. The original mysteriously shows up.

        2. You have read judgment into a comment where there was none. It’s not rude or judgy to suggest that you embrace feeling the natural consequences of your actions. It’s a pretty common thing that people do as a way of continuing to refine themselves.

          1. I mean… is she not doing that already by going without until she replaces them, and having to search for something cheap and spend the money to replace them? Those are consequences. It’s a non-responsive answer and this weird idea that she needs to “refine” herself because she lost airpods is just kinda gross. She did not do something wrong or bad.

          2. You’re right, but buying cheap junky air buds you’re going to ditch when you find the better ones is doing something wrong and bad.

          3. No, no it is not bad and wrong to buy replacement products that fulfill a purpose in your life.

            I’m not OP, but I would keep the cheap ones as a backup if I found my good ones.

      3. Getting a cheap pair IS going without AirPods and feeling the natural consequences (of having to settle for a lesser pair)

          1. Yes it is? You lose something, and therefore you have to go with a cheaper pair that fits in the budget instead of getting new AirPods. It’s not an artificial, unrelated punishment. Perhaps you prefer to term this “logical consequences”, but when you are the person imposing them on yourself, the two terms have a lot of overlap

          2. Some people work in noisy offices or have other lifestyle considerations where headphones are a necessity not just a ‘luxury’

          4. Then borrow a pair from a friend. Or like…do what everyone did a decade ago and just be a functional adult without them?

          5. A decade ago devices used to have headphone jacks. Now everything is bluetooth and pods are the only option

          7. As a PSA, if you prefer wired, every phone you’ve read “got rid of the headphone jack” still supports wired headphones – they’re just wired headphones that plug into the USB-C charging port, not the 3.5mm circular hole people think of as a “headphone jack”. I always have a pair of USB-c headphones in my “tech cords” bin – it’s just nice to know the backup is there if eg. I forgot to charge my earbuds and have a call coming up

      4. Some people actually need them for things other than feeling superior while entertaining themselves. But not you, because your perfectly ventilated ear holes have divine discipline and can hear that work call over the sound of the wood chipper in the neighbor’s back yard with no problem.

          1. Assuming this is a genuine question:

            1. my office didn’t have teams/zoom/Skype in 2016, if we had calls there was a dial in line
            2. I used to have an office with a door (I now have a cube)
            3. There were much fewer people in the same office footprint.

          2. There is a phone dial in line on every Skype/Teams/Zoom call, and I’ve never worked in an open office that did not have breakout rooms for virtual meetings. I don’t think those exist.

    3. Never had Airpods but I like my cheapie JLab Go Air Pops. They’re like $20 and the sound quality is just fine, battery life is great. I don’t use them for calls so YMMV.

      I like them so much that when I misplaced them I immediately bought a second set, natural consequences be damned.

    4. Can’t you just use cheap wired ear buds in the meantime? Those are like $20 for the apple ones that work fine, or you might already have an old pair.

      1. A lot of devices don’t have jacks for plug in headphones anymore. (Some do, but my iphone doesn’t!)

  14. Has anyone tried any of the bed wetting pajamas or underwear? Or night training pads? My 7 yo is a very heavy sleeper and I’m looking for a solution. Also if anyone has solutions to get a kid night-trained, I’d love to hear them. Kiddo day-trained early but has never been close to night trained. A late night pee hasn’t solved things yet (does it take time?). Thanks!

    1. I don’t particularly have solutions – but I do have what I hope might be a bit of reassurance by way of the fact that my very similar kid (who’s now 8) night-trained on her own time. I could have written this exact post when she was newly 7. A few months after her birthday, she greeted me one morning by saying “Hi Mom. You can take the pull-ups out of my room today, I’m done needing them.” She had 3 nighttime accidents over the course of the next two weeks and has been dry ever since. I have no idea why, but I guess she just needed the extra developmental time to hit the milestone.

      As for actual advice – we did talk to her about limiting liquids a couple of hours before bedtime and also did wake her for a late night pee (which worked easily into our routine because my husband is a night owl who made helping her with that part of his own pre-bed routine). But I think there’s something about the way some kids’ brains work that they need some extra time for their brain to prioritize the “need to pee” message enough to wake them in the night.

    2. Nothing super helpful to add except support. People don’t talk enough about how long it can take deep sleepers to get through the night without an accident — particularly for boys. I had two of them and the amount of laundry can be frustrating. Just keep using pullups until you have a long enough streak that you feel comfortable trying without them. We also tried a pee alarm, which I think did help but wasn’t a 100% solution. They WILL do it when they are ready. And it will happen eventually. It can just take a lot longer they you want it to. And, I promise, it is happening to more kids than you realize.

    3. We used the therapee alarm which was super annoying but worked in a couple weeks for my super heavy sleepers

    4. Sounds within the wide range of normal development to me. Here’s info from the AAP on bedwetting, including treatment: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/genitourinary-tract/Pages/Nocturnal-Enuresis-in-Teens.aspx

      Nighttime underwear is helpful, but not 100%. A small waterproof mattress pad on top of the sheet (in addition to a full waterproof mattress under the sheet) is helpful for quick changes if the nighttime underwear doesn’t fully contain everything.

    5. The immediate solution is overnight pull-ups. We’ve used Good Nites brand with success.

      With respect to training a heavy sleeper, I talked to our pediatrician about this recently for a 6 year old–we’d also tried late night peeing without success–and got two takeaways: (1) still normal, mostly developmental, etc. (2) if it’s important to you, the alarms can work to help them make the connection between needing to pee and waking up. For what this is worth, my unsolicited parenting advice is that this shouldn’t be important to you unless it’s important to your kid or there’s some kind of special circumstance in your life that makes nighttime pull-ups a problem.

      Anyway, we chose to just let it be, and he stopped all on his own all of a sudden–the pull-ups just started being dry in the morning every morning, after being wet every night for years. Now he sleeps without pull-ups without issue.

    6. Not me. A friend had similar experience with her son. My recollection from several years ago, which is super sketcy, is that the pediatrician said that bodies have to learn to release a certain hormone, and her kiddo’s body wasn’t doing it yet. I think they gave him an oral form of it for a year or two and that got him through this stage. Talk to your doctor and perhaps they can help.

  15. Posting here for all of the lawyers to see. I am a lawyer as well, and I have a kid who is applying early decision to a college this fall. Everything I’m reading says that “Early Decision,” which requires the kid to withdraw from all other schools when admitted, is “not legally binding.” This is after the kid signs a contract, the school counselor signs a contract, and I sign a parent contract that explicitly says that we are all agreeing to these rules. (And yes, I get that if you your kid does not get the financial aid they need, you can withdraw, but assume that does not apply here since my kid’s not applying for FA). So, when people say it’s not “legally binding,” are they just saying it won’t be enforced against the parties to the agreement? But technically, it is a contract is it not? I see specific terms, consideration (your child hears back earlier, the school gets the benefit of knowing the child will yield, etc.), a “meeting of the minds,” etc.

    1. I haven’t seen the documents, but there’s a (somewhat silly) antitrust case about this, and in the complaint, they say no college has ever tried to enforce one of these agreements. Ever. Anywhere in the country. If even the colleges themselves are opting not to test the contracts in court, I’m inclined to think that their lawyers have told them that they are weak at best.

      1. I feel like college should endure an extreme FAFO on this. It’s such a racket to get in all of the full-pay water polo kids (as if water polo early decision isn’t signaling it enough).

    2. I’m an attorney and here is my advice:

      Don’t take half-baked legal advice from people who don’t know what they are talking about. It’s usually worse than no advice at all.

      Whether or not a contract is “legally binding” depends on a number of factors: the exact language, the state it would be litigated in, etc.

      That isn’t the point, though. A college has plenty of remedies for breach of contract, and your daughter’s school has a strong incentive to not have their kids screw with ED. Her counselor might inform other schools she applied to. The college might do so as well (if she applied for financial aid, I think they can see the open and active applications). The college could revoke her acceptance.

      None of that involves taking her to court, and all of it is a real consequence.

      1. But *none of that has ever happened to anyone ever.* You would’ve heard about it.

    3. When I was applying to college 20 years ago, the understanding was that colleges circulated lists of early decision admittees and if you’d gone early at two (or more) places or early at one and regular at any other(s) you ran the risk of having any of those admissions revoked. The feeling was that that risk was real, though I can’t say I know personally whether it was.

      I also have the vague sense that this is how schools (including law schools) currently handle double depositing, and whether that’s accurate may give you a sense of whether it’s likely to be going on with early admits too.

      1. That was my understanding as well. They’re not going to sue you if you back out, but they’ll tell other schools to rescind your admission. The Ivies, etc. all talk.

        1. Again, that’s the theory of the antitrust suit, and those attorneys (from a very good firm!) did not locate a single instance of this happening. The emperor appears to have no clothes.

    4. Wow, such an interesting can of worms. I feel like it’s in the nature of a personal services contract, where (for example) you can’t force somebody to actually show up and work at a job (although you could recover damages). But would a school even have actual damages if a kid didn’t actually enroll? Hard to prove, right? So off the top of my head I’d say it seems to have all the elements of a contract, but how could it ever be enforced?

      I don’t have a dog in this race, but I am kind of here for the whole system collapsing like a house of cards.

  16. Might try again on the afternoon post if it comes out soon..

    Just started a new job 10/1. Fantastic company, good benefits. We’re currently on DH’s health insurance, which is more than adequate for us right now. So, while I have until 10/31 to enroll with my new company, I think I’m just going to do nothing on the medical front and then revisit during the natural open enrollment periods for both companies which is likely to be in November.

    That all being said, I’m on Wegovy (I’m a textbook case, have been on for 18 mos, down 80 lbs and want to be on it for life) and DH’s insurance has said that coverage is going to be a lot stricter in 2026. They haven’t said whether or not I personally will be covered that I’m aware of. My question is, is there any way to definitively confirm if I will be covered on DH’s plan in 2026? And/or, is there a way to find out from my new company if our health insurance will cover the medication (slash, what’s their go-forward stance on coverage)? Is that a reasonable thing that someone should be able to answer for me?

    I have currently Blue Cross Blue Shield MA, the ones saying that may not cover after Jan 1, and my company offers Aetna, plus express scripts for prescription coverage (or maybe just administration? i’m confused by this part). Thoughts?

    2. I would love to know if there’s a way to get a commitment that certain medications will continue to be covered!

      My (big health insurer through a big employer) didn’t even bother to tell me that they stopped covering a medication that would have immediate severe consequences if stopped without an adequate substitute, let alone give me advance warning.

      1. FWIW, if you’re at a big company, it’s likely they are ‘self funded’ and therefore setting the policy for what is or isn’t covered themselves. The ‘insurance’ company is just serving as the back office administrator executing your company’s instructions in that case, not actually deciding.

    3. During open enrollment, you can ask your spouse’s employer and your own for a copy of the plan’s drug formulary. Assuming these are large-ish employers, there should be someone in the HR or benefits department who knows what a formulary is. If these are smaller employers, you may have to explain you need the list of covered drugs.

      Then look at the formularies – is the drug you want listed as covered? Does it have prior authorization requirements or step therapy? If so, it will be harder to find out if each plan will cover the drug next year – your doctor would have to contact each plan to go through the prior auth or step therapy dance, and that can take time. And your doctor may not be really excited about doing that twice, on spec, as it were.

      And even after all that, the plan you choose can change the formulary mid-year next year if they want to – because the manufacturer increased the price, or decreased the rebate, or because a cheaper drug entered the market. The plan or pharmacy benefits manager is supposed to notify you in advance of them dropping coverage for a drug, but that doesn’t always work perfectly. If they drop your drug, you usually have options to appeal or ask for an exception, but there are no guarantees there.

      Express Scripts is a pharmacy benefits manager (PBM). They process drug claims for your employer, and they set the formulary. Your employer, depending on its size, may have some input into edge cases on the formulary, but 99% of it is determined by Express Scripts.

      1. Edited to correct:

        It will be very hard to get a solid answer from your employer’s plan, since you’re not currently enrolled in it. Your doctor isn’t likely to get anything helpful from the PBM, since neither the doctor nor the PBM will know what plan or group code you would be enrolled in. Your best bet would be to throw yourself on the mercy of your HR or benefits person, who should know what plan and group codes would apply to you. They could then ask their contact at the PBM for insight – but neither HR nor the PBM will have your medical history, so they won’t be able to give you a concrete answer (even leaving aside the possibility of mid-year changes). At best, HR will come back to you with something like “Express Scripts says that drug is on the formulary for 2026, with prior auth (or step therapy or whatever rules apply). Here’s the outline of how the process works, and what you and your doctor will need to do once you’re enrolled.”

        Typing this makes the system sound insane, and it is.

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