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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: High-Rise Modern-Flare Refined Pant

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A woman wearing a dirty white high waist flare pants with white long sleeve top and mustard coat

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

As someone who started her professional career in the early aughts, it warms my heart to see flares making a solid comeback. As a middle-aged person, I’m thrilled that they’re being offered in a high-rise cut. These pants from Banana Republic have a touch of stretch for a perfect fit and come in black, navy, and this fantastic cream color.

Add a blazer for a more formal day or your favorite sweater for a more casual occasion. 

The pants are $120 at Banana Republic and come in sizes 0-18, 00P-12P, and 4L-12L. 

Sales of note for 4/17:

  • Nordstrom – Beauty savings event, up to 25% off – nice price on Black Honey
  • Ann Taylor – Cyber Spring! 50% off everything + free shipping
  • Boden – 25% off everything (thru Sun, then 15% off)
  • Brooklinen – 25% off sitewide — we have and love these sateen sheets
  • Evereve – 1000+ items on sale, including lots from Alex Mill, Michael Stars, Sanctuary, Rails, Xirena, and Z-Supply
  • Express – $29 dresses
  • J.Crew – 30% off all dresses
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything, and extra 50% off clearance
  • Lands' End – 50% off full price styles and 60% off all clearance and sale – lots of ponte dresses come down under $25, and this packable raincoat in gingham is too cute
  • Loft – Friends & Family event, 50% off entire purchase + free shipping
  • Macy's – 25% off already reduced prices + 15% off beauty & fragrance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Spring Sale Event – Buy More, save more! 10% off $250+, 15% off $500+, 20% off $750+, 25% off $1000+ (Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off if you find any exclusions.)
  • Sephora – Spring sale! 20%, 15%, or 10% off depending on your membership tier; ends 4/20. Here's everything I recommend in the sale!
  • Talbots – Spring sale! 40% off + extra 15% off all markdowns
  • TOCCIN – Use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off!
  • Vivrelle – Looking to own less stuff but still try trends? Use code CORPORETTE for a free month, and borrow high-end designer clothes and bags!

263 Comments

  1. What is the most uplifting or nourishing thing you’ve read lately in the news? So much negative stuff.

    Mine might be the NYT story a week or two ago about how they stopped a school shooter – brought me some hope at least.

    1. I’m pretty sure that potential school shootings are averted all of the time; they just usually try to keep it quiet and not scare people or inspire copycats. That’s from talking to teachers about incidents that never made the news locally, but it also stands to reason that kids are more likely to get caught than not. There are people working on tracking incidents here if this is an effort you’d like to support: https://www.avertedschoolviolence.org/

      1. Someone I know works in a law enforcement capacity and there’s school shootings (and worse) avoided every day. PDs get ‘anonymous’ calls to go look into specific people/places.

    2. This is a few weeks old, but a promising treatment for Huntington’s Disease. Overall, medical progress is pretty uplifting. Less than 200 years ago, doctors still fought over whether bad air or tiny germs caused diseases. Now we can cure many cancers, we can rapidly develop vaccines, we have turned many illnesses from a death sentence into a managed, chronic condition. And there is still a lot to discover here.
      https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cevz13xkxpro

      1. Adding onto this, the New York Times reported yesterday that deadly peanut allergies are way down because now we have an understanding that giving peanuts earlier helps reduce allergy risk in infants.

        1. This was really cool! My oldest son is 16 and my youngest is 9 and the change in medical advice was so interesting to me – and it’s worked! Like “back to sleep”. These are real differences made to keep children alive and improve life

      2. Yes. I’m still encouraged by Zolgensma (the genetic intervention for spinal muscular atrophy). There are also some interventions and treatments being studied for Charcot Marie Tooth. And I am sure there are similar advances happening for conditions I know less about.

        I’m also encouraged by the CAR-T trials for putting autoimmune conditions into indefinite remission. I don’t know what the results will be, but for a lot of autoimmune and auto-inflammatory conditions we have moved from “enduring the effects of long term steroid use or the effects of poorly controlled disease” to “restoring a high quality of life on targeted biologics” to more ambitious goals all within my life time. It means a lot to me since I have some of the same diagnoses as my grandparents and I’m already seeing how differently they’re playing out for me thanks to better medicine.

      3. Eric Topol has a great Substack for positive/optimistic news on medical scientific progress of broad relevance.

        I know it will take time, but I’m hopeful that finally resolving the fight over bad air and tiny germs (many of the tiny germs are in the bad air!) will lead to far less disease transmission in the near future.

        1. Given the discussion about the sick MIL visiting a poster’s home yesterday and how many posters did not have an issue with coughing all over the place, I’m less hopeful that people are truly willing to prioritize clean air and minimizing spread of germs.

          1. Everything is relative. It is amazing to me how much better people are about staying home when they are sick / infectious compared to pre-Covid. It is really a lot better.

            We complain about lack of progress all the time, but humans are impatient by nature, and we forget (or don’t know) how far we have come.

      4. Huntington’s is horrific and heritable. My kids have a friend who has a 40ish dad already severely affected by it. One older sibling walks with a cane. I just can’t imagine.

        I don’t have a good layman’s grasp on allergies vs auto-immune issues vs weird things bodies do (I’m RH negative; my kids are positive; Rhogam is a great thing).

    3. There was a heartwarming series of stories about a police dog who was injured in the line of duty but was treated and made a full recovery, and the whole community came out to support him.

    5. I read that endangered sea turtles are starting to make a bit of a recovery, and that removing that dam in Northern California is helping some fish to recover.

      1. Indigenous youth made the first source-to-sea kayak trip on the newly reopened Klamath River. They trained for two years to run Class III and IV rapids.

    6. Not exactly “news” but I saw on my Facebook feed that a little dog named Mike was finally adopted. I had helped with transport for him at the beginning of the summer–I drove three hours each way to leave him at a rural rescue that offered to take him and was worried they wouldn’t be able to place him. But he came from a hoarding situation in our area with more than 50 dogs of his breed and our area shelters were overwhelmed. The news coverage of the situation noted that the hoarder had kept all the windows closed and covered to avoid neighbors knowing what was going on inside. It was dark and incredibly hot and the smell was so bad that the animal control officers with the fire department had to have someone come and tell them the air was safe enough before they could go in. I had never done transport before but was so touched by what was happening (I’ve owned dogs of his breed). When I picked him up at animal control, he was such a gentle boy and so scared. Like a statue the whole ride. And to see him now looking all happy with his new mama–still with the leash I had donated from my dog that passed. I’m telling you, I just cried. I’m so, so happy for him and his new life. I felt like a weirdo calling animal control to offer transport. Now I’m so glad I did. There really are good people out there, from the rescue to his foster to all the other people in our area that worked so hard to get all those pups into shelters quickly.

      1. Was he a Great Pyrenese? We have one and there are SO MANY here from hoarders and backyard breeders and it just being a unique personality. We live in a city! A BIG city. They really aren’t an easy apartment dog since they are so barky, etc. I’m glad we got our rescue but we can’t absorb what’s in the shelters and rescues now and more just keep coming. Thank you for helping Mike :)

        1. Rat terrier. Normally not so hard to place but hard to absorb 50+ at once. They are amazing dogs, but it is hard to stand out when every single dog is a little spotted dog.

    7. reading about the released hostages has been inspiring and uplifting (despite the associated sadness and loss and general mess of that region).

    8. heard a story on NPR this morning about a new treatment for a certain type of blindness where they implant a chip in your eye that connects to a camera in a pair of glasses and lets people see enough that they can read and write again, which seemed super cool.

    9. For a regular dose of this, see Good News for Humankind by Peter Schulte. It is a regular emailed newsletter you can subscribe to. He generally sends it once a week.

    10. How NFL players are retiring and going to nursing school. They get a lot of exposure to healthcare while they are playing, and those who don’t have the multi million dollar contracts need a new career afterwards. They tend to specialize in orthopedic care, psychiatric care and urology, as the former make good use of their physical size, and the last allows their patients a different way to connect with them.

    11. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/halloween-costume-prices-rising-how-one-man-is-making-and-donating-them-to-help-families/

      Several times a week, you can find Christophe Waggoner digging through piles of clothes at a thrift store in central Texas. Unlike some of the other shoppers, though, he’s looking for items that can be made into Halloween costumes.

      “I’m trying to see if anything catches my attention,” Waggoner says, “It’s usually either shiny, furry or sparkly.”

      His vision: To create costumes out of thrifted treasures and donate them to those in need.

      “I want everybody, all the kids, their parents, whatever, to feel like they’re getting the same thing that somebody went out and bought,” Waggoner says.

      At his home in Austin, he washes, glues and sews the costumes he finds, redesigning the garments into something new.

  2. Bra Help! I’ve been WFH for 5 years wearing comfy, soft bras and am now heading back into the office. At 45, my body appears to have no interest in returning to wearing real bras all day every day.
    I’m a 34C and need a small amount of padding coverage but not much; the nips stand up a little but they’re small. Any recommendations for something that doesn’t have a wire and is reasonably comfortable but also has a little coverage? I’d continue with what I wore at home but they have no coverage, and I need it to be in a real shirt in a real office.

    1. I’m about your size. The b.tempt’d by Wacoal Women’s b.wow’d Wirefree Bral3tt3 is my fave for this. Size M. (On Amazon it is called the b.tempt’d Womens B.wow’d Padded Convertible Wire Free Bra, 952287)

    5. I love the True & Co soft bras. The lift styles have slightly more support. I find the scoop styles to be more supportive than the v.

      1. FWIW, I commented above about Wacoal for office comfort. True & Co are what I use for WFH soft, for reference.

        1. Do you mean that you don’t think they’re appropriate to wear to the office? I have no issues with that, but everyone is shaped differently.

          1. No, not inappropriate – they have enough padding. I just find them to be less supportive than the Wacoal one, and since the OP is looking for a step up in support from her own WFH bras, wanted to note how I felt about the two brands / styles.

    6. I would get fitted. I also wouldn’t rule out underwire. It isn’t uncomfortable if the fit is right and few things give enough lift with a c cup without it.

    7. When I post things like this and get replies like these, I feel like you guys are the sisters who I don’t have. Thank you for your suggestions!

    8. I wear the completely soft bra and then a silicon liner you can buy at any drug store to provide coverage.

    9. I’m a 34D. There’s an Aerie wireless bra with molded cups that I like. It’s shaped like a normal bra with hooks in the back.

    11. I felt the same way when I returned to office, and I still have trouble with wired bras (my skin gets irritated now). Truekind has been a lifesaver for me. I’m a little bigger than you and have no issues with headlights/coverage.

  3. Are we still wearing cropped kick flares? Maybe just as summer pants? I have a pair that was too snug for a while. Now they fit. But something seems off.

    1. I am certainly still wearing them and i think they are still selling them. They are definitely tougher once it gets cold. One could wear with cute meant to be seen long socks that cover from shoe to under the pants or else a boot i guess but i really only wear them when it’s warm enough to have a few inches of bare leg between shoe and cuff.

    2. Trickier to get the proportions right with cool weather shoes. Sandals and little flats are far more forgiving. Plus, if you bought a pair designed for summer, the fabric likely doesn’t read “fall.”

    3. Yes. And of course something seems off, they’ve always been a dorky pant. You just have to own that.

    5. I love them for rainy days – I pair with knee socks and boots of all varieties. Definitely a winter/fall pant for me.

    7. I like them with a boot that comes up under the hem, plus something a little oversized on top, like a slouchy sweater or boyfriend blazer. A fitted top looks wrong with them (to my eye, anyway).

      1. I tried to post and this is how I wear them too. To the OP, current versions are a few inches longer than what was out a few years ago, maybe that’s the issue you’re having?

        1. OP here and I think you are right. Mine just feel slightly too short. Not pedal pushers but I’d like them a hair longer for 2025.

    8. Fashion blogs are claiming that kick flares, specifically the black ponte variety, are back.

    9. I love mine but I’m in the SEUS and wear them with loafers/sneakers. I tend to move to straight leg ankle length jeans when I need boots.

    10. If they are fall/winter appropriate colors / fabrics, I wear booties with a high enough shaft to span the exposed leg.

      It’s cold where I live. I avoid bare skin exposed to wind/rain/snow.

  4. I want to get my husband a toaster oven for Christmas – he really wants one. We have no space at all but I’ll figure something out. Any recommendations for a good, easy to use, and small footprint option? Don’t need an air fryer attachment. TIA!

    2. We bought Wirecutter’s top pick for toaster ovens and have used it daily for several years, and it still works great and has a compact footprint. Bought it for my mom as well.

      2. I got this same model (Panasonic FlashXpress) almost a year ago and really like it. It truly is a compact footprint — which is why I chose it over the Breville model mentioned above — so make sure it’s big enough for your needs.

    3. We really like our Ninja Flip toaster oven – it does have an air fryer mode, but that isn’t a separate attachment. The ability to fold it up and reduce the counter footprint is the best feature, but it also works great.

    5. Don’t have a specific model to recommend, but they still make ones that can be mounted under a cabinet if you lack counter space.

    6. Balmuda is the best ! I recommended it a long time ago here and I think a couple people ended up buying it. It’s focused on toast, but you can also cook other things in there. Their whole thing is that you put a tiny amount of water in it which steams the bread prior to toasting it so the inside is fluffy and the outside is crispy. It’s pricey but very pretty and simple to use.

      1. I got one after seeing it recommended it here and we love it. It’s not really marketed as a toaster oven but it’s great for heating things like pizza and biscuits.

  5. If I’m going to splurge on some Aquitalia boots, is there a better place or site to get them from? Directly or through Nordstrom, etc.? And do they ever go on sale? I can wait a bit if there are Black Friday or after Xmas sales.

    1. Check the return policy. I often prefer ordering through a major retailer like Nordstrom, Zappos, etc. for free shipping & returns as opposed to the risk of paying for return shipping.

      Sales – possibly 25-30% off, more frequently things like earn triple “points” that turn into gift cards. Lucky sizes only when they go lower than that.

    2. I thought company was closing down. I’d check spots like TJMaxx and the Rack; if you find one you like I’d buy it.

      1. The company shut down, was purchased, and then reopened. I would not pay full price, since they can frequently be found on deep discount. Try gilt dot com.

    3. Right near Christmas, historically they would do 30% one model per day, rotating each day. Because they’re pricy, this was a pretty huge discount. I’d wait, if I were you.

    4. I figure out exactly the size / style I want and buy at Black Friday sales. If they are popular sizes and styles they sometimes sell out by Xmas. And I just google search for the best sales. You can always ask Nordstrom to price match but they often don’t carry what I am looking for. I often find the best sale price at random department stores like Bloomingdales, but sometimes its a smaller boutique.

  6. if you were buying a sweater/ top to wear with either blue or wheat jeans to be worn in the next few weeks (think fall homecoming, instagram apple picking) what would it be? links please!

  7. Do workplaces not have dress codes anymore? My recently graduated twins have both started big city, big office corporate type jobs. Both inquired during hiring/onboarding and were told some version of “we don’t have a written dress code policy.” Is this normal? Both offices have ended up being dressy so it’s not like this was supposed to mean “wear whatever.”

    I ask because I’ve seen lots of consternation (here and elsewhere) that young people don’t know what’s appropriate for the office, but it seems like maybe we’re abdicating our responsibility to *tell them* what’s appropriate! My kids have professional parents who can help with some guidance but obviously not all young people have this privilege. When I began as a first-year associate 25 years ago we were told in no uncertain terms what was and wasn’t appropriate for the office (including, yes, hose except between Memorial Day and Labor Day). Obviously there was nuance to figure out but the basic framework was laid. Curious on others’ thoughts and experiences.

      1. This is unkind AND unhelpful.

        Done correctly, this is part of helping your children transition to the professional world. It is not helicoptering.

        To answer the actual question you’re asking – I’m an employment lawyer, so I write these policies. I have seen a shift in dress code policies recently – offices are more “dress for your day” (with the expectation that you will know what that looks like) and there is a general desire to make the policies less gendered. Many of my clients dislike including examples of appropriate versus not these days, and want to streamline the policy to basically say, “We’re business casual, if you’re not sure if something is appropriate, check with your immediate supervisor BEFORE you wear it.” So I am not surprised that they didn’t have something like what you’re describing which clearly laid out what to wear/not wear, but it is pretty unusual they didn’t give some idea of the level of formality.

      2. This ain’t that.

        Not every kid has funds to get this wrong and many don’t want to blow it on day 1 or get it terribly wrong. If kids went to career services and talked to the people there (or maybe professors), they may help with some general guidelines. But I feel like no one casually talks to others now, much less students to adults unless they have to. The remedy is often more talking and more casual interactions.

        1. I remember being so nervous about what to wear to interviews as a new grad! It’s hard to give advice because this is very office/employer dependent. If you wear a suit to a tech company, you will stick out like a sore thumb.

      3. Sort of a classic response in that it doesn’t remotely contribute to the conversation, couldn’t even theoretically be helpful because the ‘event’ has already happened, and wouldn’t be even if it was timely because it’s bad advice.

        “Mom, can you help me figure out my outfit for my first day of work?”
        “No, sorry, honey. Someone on the internet said I can’t helicopter you. Good luck!”

        Maybe just keep it to yourself next time?

      4. This is bad advice. Please guide and coach your kids through life. It’s called parenting.

    2. My office doesn’t have a dress code. There’s a certain amount of assumption that everyone is an adult and can dress themselves which in practice doesn’t work. Theres an IT guy who regularly wears cargo shorts and flip flops, and one of the admins has a fondness of hot pink mini shorts.

    3. https://share.google/79Aivr5uWccknISh7
      according to this article, dress codes are becoming less strict, and more and more jobs (a third currently) don’t have one. My family has lots of engineering and public service type workers, and none of them has a dress code as far as I know.

    4. it is a real problem. employers are uncomfortable policing but also clearly do have expectations. i actually disagree with the person who said don’t helicopter it. i would. if they’re not sure they should err to being too dressed and not bare. get a few pair of real pants a few sweaters, a blazer and real shoes

      1. I feel like coaching now only happens in sports. If coaching is useful in sports, it’s likely useful outside of sports.

        1. What. I know life coaches, executive function coaches, executive presence coaches, divorce coaches, cancer coaches, and public speaking coaches and writing coaches. There are sleep coaches and parenting coaches. There is an entire coaching industrial complex. Coaching hasn’t been just for sports in over a decade.

          1. Is any of that for new grads tho? Or just people stalling out or with $ to spend?

          2. So much for the idea that people just figure things out in their own. Sometimes it’s helpful to have help!

          3. So many of these “coaches” just seem like untrained and unlicensed therapists or dietitians taking advantage of people.

    5. My firm has one – and we’re a really fun, laid back workplace, but you still need to be dressed appropriately.

    6. and by the way whoever they asked should have given a real answer: “we don’t have a formal dress code but we consider ourselves to be corporate casual, generally people only wearing jeans and/ or sneakers on fridays.” and then they should look to see if people wear bare legs or open toes or bare arms or leather skirts or anything else that might be on the margin and go from there. but they should start more dressed not less.

      2. This is the answer.

        There is nothing wrong with wearing your interview suit and internship clothes for the first week or two until you figure out the vibe.

    7. It’s not just dress code; I think there’s been a general shift away from communicating unspoken rules (or even claiming there are no rules) that benefits people who already know the expectations (which absolutely do still exist even if they’re more nuanced).

      2. I think it’s a very intentional way to suss out the poors and the neurodivergents.

        1. My ND teen does really well with the capsule wardrobe concept and isn’t like me who perpetually gets bored of it and keeps tweaking it. Also planning a career where she’ll be in scrubs.

          Husband has to wear company apparel at work. And then picks some variation on polo + khakis for 99% of the rest of life.

          I think that a lack of a formal dress code still negatively impacts mainly women, just differently than when there were 6-page memos on hose, open-toe shoes, pants vs clamdiggers vs capri, what constitutes denim vs just blue cotton pants, and if you could wear a skirt suit to court. No wonder lawyers wear robes and wigs in some countries.

        2. Or not. Back in the day we figured things out. Kids got jobs in high school and knew the rules going into work. Today, no one works outside internships, which are fake jobs and not everyone does that. There’s also a tendency to want to be spoon fed everything and to not talk to people and observe.

          1. I think figuring things out always worked better for kids with easier access to the right kinds of cultural capital. I also think that back in the day there really was more mentorship and guidance. Today I think there’s more hesitation over prescriptivism or appearing to endorse expectations that aren’t particularly fair? Gen X mentors are not always the best source of “rules” in general.

          2. I mean, I worked in high school and college and it did NOTHING for me for figuring out business wardrobe post college because I did not work in the same type of environment. And my parents were academics whose ideas of what was appropriate were totally wrong . I wish someone had been there to help me figure out that my poofy pink cotton skirt was not actually business casual.

        3. Or just having people sort themselves so you know who is “your kind” to groom for promotion vs just going to be a worker bee.

          2. It’s not this sinister as in it is not this intentional. But I’ve definitely seen discussions of “fit” boil down to exactly this.

          3. It feels nice when the cream just naturally rises to the top. It is so much better than putting signs for which water fountains and bathrooms you can use and not use.

      3. “Unlimited PTO” is a perfect example of the trap that requires employees to intuit the unspoken rules.

        1. Anon at 11:28: I just told my 26 year old in his first real job and unlimited PTO to stop taking Fridays off even if they say it is okay.

      4. I agree with you generally, but dress codes have always been unequitably enforced anyway so having a dress code doesn’t really help. E.g. in my office the tech people who are confident in their value wear hoodies, the female management wear sandals that go with their outfits, and people who are working outside in the summer wear shorts, even though all of those things are technically against dress code. Most places I’ve worked are like that – whether there are written rules or not you still have to look around and learn the actual unwritten rules.

      5. I agree, and it’s tiresome. Please, please, tell people the expectations instead of just assuming that the norms are understood.

    8. Hmm, I’m not sure this is brand new. I graduated law school in 2010 and worked in two Big Law firms and a couple of smaller firms. I’m not sure I ever worked in a firm with an official dress code. There were certainly unstated expectations, mainly what I’d call business casual with jeans allowed on Fridays, but I don’t think I ever got officially told how to dress except someone may have mentioned the jeans thing to me. The “hose except between Memorial Day and Labor Day” rule sounds wildlyyyy old-fashioned to me even in a stuffy industry like law.
      Then I went to higher ed and people here wear pretty much whatever they want as long as it isn’t overly revealing or impractical for the job.

      1. +1 to pretty much all of this, except lawyers at my local university still very much have an unwritten dress code that’s a bit more formal than other staff.

        1. I work at the law school. The written dress code is “business casual” with much detail. The unwritten dress code is business formal, one step shy of courtroom attire.

        2. I’m the 9:56 poster and totally agree with you that legal depts are more formal even in higher ed. I changed careers and am no longer a lawyer. I’m sure there are other exceptions too. I don’t think people in the president’s office wear casual clothes and I have a friend who’s staff in the business school who always seems more dressed up. For a lot of staff and faculty, pretty much anything goes though.

    9. I think a lot of offices are in flux about this right now. Our government office was officially business casual during the pandemic, but we don’t have a written policy right now. Folks wear everything from jeans/polos to full suits, depending on their job description and schedule (i.e. engineers less formal than attorneys; meetings with officials require more formal wear than holing up in your office). I’d advise new employees to identify successful mid-levels in their group/area of practice and use them as a model for dress code. Or just ask someone they trust.

    10. No they don’t. Employment lawyer here. Dress codes are fraught with g*nder norms and impossible to write in today’s climate so many workplaces have done away with them. They still exist and you figure it out through observation at your workplace.

      1. But life is full of gender norms. This is just pretending minefields aren’t there hurts the people who most need guidance (or experience career harms from violating norms) the most.

      2. lawyer here. disagree. you can say that you can’t wear sandals or tank tops in a non gendered way.

        1. You can, but people will still interpret it as gendered and raise a stink. As a lawyer, you know that some things are worth spelling out and some aren’t.

        2. Tell me you don’t practice employment law without telling me (or if you do, you aren’t very good at it).

    11. Honestly, we have a written policy but it’s pretty much completely disconnected from what people wear day-to-day (which is much more casual). I can imagine “rewrite the dress code” just being way way down HR’s list of priorities. The two smaller companies I worked for in the 2010’s were smaller and did not have a written dress code at all.

    12. My current job and last job both have written dress codes.

      Current job is casual. Basically no shorts, exposed midriffs or too short dresses/skirts, sweats, hats, or flip flops.

      Last one was much more prescriptive. No jeans or cords, even on “spirit days”. Dresses must be at least 1” below the knee (we had to fight to be allowed dresses at all!). No open toe or open heel shoes. No heels. Polos for men only in the summer. Sneakers (only athletic style, not white leather sneakers) only with a doctors note.

      These jobs are the same, working on a computer at a desk full time. Not meeting with external people.

      1. Had to fight to be allowed dresses? That blows my mind. I’m old enough to remember when we had to fight to be allowed to wear pants!

        1. The “no open toes/heels + no high heels” part of the above makes me think this is “safety” related. I used to work with a client that was a construction company. Their safety related dress requirements (no bare legs especially) carried over into the office jobs so that dresses/skirts were discouraged.

    13. our office is ‘dress for your day’ biz casual – it is spelled out in our employee handbook but I think it’s only part of the formal onboarding program for interns. Which is so important!! I agree that when it’s not, it becomes a way of filtering out people who are new to the white collar world.

    14. When I started at Biglaw, we had a very explicit dress code down to hose being strongly encouraged but not required, and way too many rules about dress sandals. In house now, and the company has a modified dress for your day since appropriate dress for your day could range from business formal to jeans and boots in the field. We explicitly ban some things (crop tops, ripped jeans, etc.) but otherwise require people to dress appropriately for the environment. This is increasingly the norm.

    15. That seems more a relic of law firms. I’ve been in the workplace for 20 years and I’ve never been told something as prescriptive as wear hose to work. Things like can’t wear jeans or must wear closed shoes were more common with terms like business or business casual but even that has wide ranges. In my consulting firm, I would say the general rule is business casual leaning more toward casual unless you have a client meeting. And even that would be highly unlikely to extend to a suit. I think if you want to help to start, a couple pairs of black pants and a few nice tops are a good place to start.

      1. Yeah I’ve worked at five companies, and only one (a big 4 accounting firm) had a written dress code. That said, it would have given me peace of mind to know what is expected, especially as a new grad. But you can generally read the room after day one of employment and see what is the norm.

    16. As a senior lawyer, I find it annoying the the government offices I worked in did not have dress codes. I went with an investigator to speak with the head of human services for a large county and she was wearing: gigantic hooded sweaters, older flared jeans, running sneakers and a pony tail. I wasn’t happy about being the one to have a talk with her but she looked like a consumer of the services and not a professional. But I did and she took it to heart. I have also had to tell support staff what is appropriate for court on the rare occassion they would have to come in. A suit is not necessary but neither is looking like a criminal defendant.

    17. Helicopter vs not aside, workplaces these days vs the days of yore (ie: this is not what you asked, but I’m seeing an opening from the rest of the robust thread)…

      I think the best way to help new professionals in this case is to coach them into determining their next steps. In this case, there are probably additional or different questions they could have asked, so maybe “Ok, asking about the dress code didn’t get the answer you needed. What other questions might you have asked or could you ask to understand what’s expected?” or “Have you noticed trends or themes around what folks wear to work at your level, or your boss’s level? What does that tell you?”

      It’s helpful to get them to start seeing how they can generate ideas and solutions internally. This sort of change sticks vs. mom’s/aunt’s/grandpa’s “Just wear X!” advice, which is usually so specific to someone else’s experience and doesn’t build the muscles younger pros need to actually learn and adapt to their surroundings. Coaching isn’t telling teaching or advising, which are all great but as mentors, parents, and helpful elders, doesn’t recognize the autonomy and development of the person needing the intervention. The employer should be telling/advising, for sure! But if they won’t, need to consult other avenues to gather info and make decisions.

  8. I’m turning 41 this year and have been on the pill since I was 24 as a treatment for PCOS. The last few years I’ve had 2 doctors say it might be a good idea to just stay on them through menopause. Has anyone done this? Is this an alternative to HRT? I’d love to hear other people’s experiences.

    1. Not PCOS but was on OCs for my 20s and then mid-40s onward. Switched to formal HRT in my mid-50s. Have had no symptoms or issues with peri and actual menopause. Have gained a few sizes but that’s likely from a desk job and good food and metabolism slowing down with age vs being on OCs.

    2. Following with great interest. Same down to age (41 next month) and I’ve been on BC since 23 for PCOS but for coming off/on as part of fertility treatments in my 30s. I have a Mirena and love it and so far don’t think I have any peri symptoms. Ive assumed that’s because of the BC but idk. Haven’t asked yet but planned to at my next appointment.

    3. I had my Mirena (IUD w/hormones) replaced at 44 for similar reasons. My doctor said its very common and may ease the transition into menopause.

      1. I kept my Mirena until I was about 50 and I feel like I pretty much breezed through menopause.

    4. I was prescribed a birth control pill for peri symptoms. If it’s working for you, I wouldn’t change anything.

    5. Yes, I’m doing exactly that. I’m 51 now and have had zero of the menopause symptoms every single one of my friends has complained about. And many of them have gone back on the pill and found relief. I am convinced it’s the best plan if the pill works for you.

    6. Just a caution to do this with doctors support since some folks have increased stroke risk.

    7. I’m 45 and have been on the pill since I was a teen to treat PCOS. This is exactly what my gyn recommended too when I saw her last year.

    8. I did this and had no symptoms. I remained on the pill until 52 at which time my blood pressure was a bit high so I stopped taking it. Never had another period. Highly recommend if your health allows.

    9. They do offer birth control pills for women in peri as an HRT, especially if you don’t want to get pregnant. The hormones in birth control pills are higher than HRT so they aren’t for women who can’t take hormonal birth control or don’t need the birth control piece. Also, many women continue HRT past menopause to prevent osteoporosis and cardiovascular issues, among other things.

    10. I’m doing this and having a great experience so far in my mid-40s. I did have to switch pills at 40 because the one I had used for years at that point suddenly started giving me some side effects, but my doctor recommended an alternative that fully resolved them.

  9. I have heard that X (formerly twitter) is beginning to sell inactive user names. I was on Twitter since 08 but left X shortly after Musk bought it and allowed hate speech. So some think that a new user could use a previously-owned use name to impersonate someone or hack them or for other negative things. So i kind of want my user name to protect myself. But in order to protect my user name – I’d have to subscribe to X. Or I could delete my account.

    A part of me remembers the good Twitter era when I announced my kids births on there and made friends with strangers. Please tell me it is ok to just delete my account, or what else should i do?

    2. delete your account. bluesky is similiar-ish to pre-Elon twitter if you’re looking for an alternative.

    3. Totally okay to delete if you don’t use it anymore, though I haven’t heard anything about them selling usernames.

  10. If you live in a part of the country where they sell Polar seltzer, the new seasonal Spiced Pear Cider is a delicious, almost-mocktail flavor for Thanksgiving for those who can’t drink. Not too sweet. It comes in a 6-pack of slim cans – it was on an end-cap at my store.

  11. For those of you outside of DC, are you hearing about the government shutdown? Are people talking about it?

    As a furloughed fed, I find it really disheartening that it isn’t front page news on most newspapers. I checked 6 papers this morning, and only NY Times has it on the front page (and they didn’t yesterday). No one seems to be talking about the fact that the house hasn’t been in session since this started, and we are no closer to reopening than we were in October 1.

    1. No, it’s maybe occasionally on NPR, but not coming up in day-to-day conversation (even in politically active left-leaning circles – like chatting with my neighbors when we ran into each other coming back from No Kings). To be totally honest, it slips from my mind too – things like ICE actions and the economic uncertainty (driven by both tariffs & revenge against companies that don’t sufficiently bend the knee) are more salient. Realistically, isn’t affecting day-to-day life yet – the nearby natl. parks are open, the mail is getting delivered, it sucks to be furloughed but it doesn’t seem that different than other people getting laid off. We’ll see if that changes as more programs run out of money.

    2. TBH, no (I’m metro NYC). I had a moment reading a news article yesterday that mentioned the shutdown and my gut reaction was “Oh right, I forgot about that.” And then I felt awful that I can just compartmentalize and “forget”. Consciously, this is awful and you have my total sympathy. But I agree with your point that it’s getting buried beneath all the other sh t

    4. Nothing unless you read political news, like Politico. I don’t know what is on Fox, you could not pay me to check their toxic coverage.

    5. I wouldn’t take its absence in the news too badly. I write a weekly policy newsletter for work, and for the last however many weeks, I’ve been recycling my intro paragraph and finding new ways to say, “nothing’s happened.” I think the news will report on it when there’s something to report. “Rs and Ds don’t get along” isn’t something to report. So sure, it maybe slips Americans’ minds while these fools vote again and again on the same resolution, but when there’s a development, people will get it.

    6. I’m sorry to say but most people I know (Ohio) do not have positive associations with the federal government or federal workers. I’m not hearing much about, and nobody around me cares that much.

    7. I work in healthcare, so we’re talking about it every day. I was just on a zoom where we were taking bets how long it would last. Everyone is grim about it.

      The legacy news outlets are really failing to meet the moment. We’ve been both-sided into meaninglessness.

    8. There has been media attention on the possible loss of SNAP benefits. To quote Bob Marley, “A hungry mob is an angry mob.” I anticipate an uptick in crime, especially grocery store theft and robbery. Given that places like Wal-Mart pay people so little that they qualify for SNAP, this probably will also result in inside job theft as well.

    9. No. My sibling works for the military in DC so I’ve talked about it with them, but aside from that, I’ve heard nothing in the rest of my life.

    10. I feel you. I’m exempt from the furlough so still working, but it’s so disheartening how this isn’t even news.

      I feel as strongly about public service the way others feel about religion. This has been such a hard year. I was so depressed this spring I could hardly get out of bed.

      Stay strong. I’m thinking of you and the other furloughed Feds.

    11. This is really disturbing to me too. People aren’t getting paid and the economic toll is mounting. There is no respect for people’s livelihoods and the needs that they need to pay for in their lives.

      1. This is a genuine question – does it seem different to you than mass layoffs in any other segment of the economy?
        I know a lot of federal workers who are dedicated, and do great work – and I feel awful for them, but in the same way I feel awful for any friend of mine who gets suddenly laid off. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but everyone I know *expects* to get laid off with no warning at some point (even if company is doing great financially), and organizes their finances around that expectation – expecting federal furloughs or layoffs seems similar. It sucks but…seems normal to me?

        20 years ago; layoffs in the absence of actual financial difficulties at the company felt like a violation of the social contract, now it just feels like business as usual. In the same way, I can see that job stability once felt “guaranteed” as part of the deal of public sector work, but it hasn’t seemed that way to me for years.

        1. Federal workers aren’t being laid off, they’re being furloughed. They can’t get unemployment, they can’t pick up another job or drive for Uber during this time. They’re stuck waiting for Congress to fix it.

          1. +1. It’s very obviously different from private sector layoffs and arguments saying otherwise often feel like they’re in bad faith.

          2. Furlough is being in limbo. You can’t work another job. You aren’t getting paid. Plenty of people must work without pay. It’s entirely different.

          3. Furloughed federal employees in my state can absolutely get unemployment (they have to pay it back if back pay is granted though) and the unemployment agency has special instructions/webinars/etc posted all over the place about how they can apply – maybe this varies by state more than I had realized?

          1. Yes of course they do? And maybe to never find another good job again? ~2022 felt like a real step change, although the trend towards greater instability has been consistent for a long time. And I don’t know anyone who expects it to get better, not when every CEO is tripping over themselves to convince their investors faster that they’re gonna replace as many people as possible with an LLM asap.

            None of this means that federal workers’ economic uncertainty isn’t bad and terrible and unjust as well! It just feels like a specific example of a much bigger societal trend to me; not a “completely different thing” from private sector trends.

        3. You hit the nail on the head about job stability. Here’s the difference from private sector for someone with a doctorate: according to analyses from Republicans, I am underpaid 20-30% compared to private sector. There’s also a slew of legal restrictions on investments and other activities, not simply company policy. (And those analyses also put a dollar value on “job security” and not needing to save for unemployment.) The trade off was job security. Those whose duties are exempt/excepted are required to work without getting paid, which would be illegal in private sector. What’s also different now is top government officials are saying they want Federal employees to be “traumatically affected”. I understand the argument of “then don’t take those jobs”, but more progressive/liberal views reject that argument for minimum wage employees. Many fields are being outright destroyed, so just leaving isn’t easy for some.

        4. historically, people have been willing to accept the lower pay of government work (compared to the private sector) for more stability and security. if the security/stability aspects are gone, one of the primary reasons people choose to pursue government work is also gone and our government systems are going to lose out on good talent who will choose to go to the private sector instead. it’s like a brain drain for our country’s future.

        5. The inherent difference in a shutdown and a layoff is that for the employees that have to work, they aren’t being paid. And it is A LOT of employees. There really isn’t even a guarantee they will get back pay. I also have been fired from a private company. I have not routinely been “fired but deemed essential so go to work to keep my job and also not get paid for doing that work.” Yes, there is a law that says they’ll get paid but we’ll see how that goes. This is especially hard for front line workers: VA staff, TSA staff, social security office staff, etc.

          And for the people not working, they haven’t been fired so they can’t get any benefits but also they have bills to pay. And aren’t getting paid because Congress won’t go to work and do its job —- even though Congress WILL get paid.

        6. 1. We shouldn’t be so accepting of layoffs and instability regardless of the sector.
          2. We make less money as a trade off for greater job security.
          3. Many of us dont have other options. My field is government only. Federal grant money essentially funded my position in state and local governments and NGOs. My job is inherently a government function, Theres no private sector equivalent. 15 years ago when I chose this field I thought it’d be fine to pigeonhole myself into a government only job because government was supposed to be secure.
          4. If I were to pivot, it’d still be very hard to leave and find something else. I started my career at USAID (left about 8 years ago for my current agency). My LinkedIn is filled with former colleagues job searching without much luck. The market is flooded by former Feds.
          5. The work I do keeps people safe and alive. I WANT to be at work doing my job and being paid. I don’t think I should have to fight tooth and nail to keep working and getting paid for this kind of work. I pray every day my agency continues to exist. I leave home for weeks if not months at a time, working in austere conditions, working 110 hour weeks to help people.

      3. But private layoffs happen when companies fail and people are generally not expected to continue working without pay. They’re also not treated like scum most of the time, and they’re not laid off despite the need for their programs to continue.

        1. Wellllll… actually yes, people are treated badly by private companies, and yes, people get laid off even while profits are skyrocketing, and yes, sometimes corporate leadership says awful things about them in public, and yes, sometimes their programs still have to continue and the remaining employees are just expected to do more for no extra pay.

          To me, the main difference is that when a private corp treats their employees badly, I can still hope that eventually their bad leadership and bad reputation will come back to bite them over the long term and they’ll go out of business (because they can’t hire the best people, because people stop going above and beyond, etc). I can’t really hope the US govt fails in the same way.

    12. As a government contractor, it’s definitely a topic of discussion at work. Our contracts are generally funded through the end of the year, but there’s been some shuffling to find work for people who were in projects that no longer have funding because of the shutdown. There’s a lot of fatalism around it, expecting it to last into late November or farther.

    13. I work for a contractor so of course I know, but in general, shutdowns become an issue for people when TSA stops working and flights are delayed (or their social security/medicare/etc doesn’t show up). People will become much more vocal as the holidays approach. Across administrations, most people are just checked out of civics in this country.

    14. It has been in our local newspaper (mostly rural New England state) almost every day. Not necessarily on the first page, but definitely in there.

    17. No, it is not a topic of conversation at work. I’m pretty sure some of my team don’t even know there is a shutdown.

    18. This is why national parks and monuments all need to close. It hits rural areas and makes people wake up when their dream trips get canceled. Plus it’s far better for the parks so they don’t get trashed. Yosemite, my closest park, is a wreck right now and it’s very disheartening.

    19. I’m a fed in Chicago, and people are definitely talking. My personal and community bubble are blue and politically engaged, with a lot of older adults who are seemingly former hippies. The conversation is generally much more focused on ICE and national guard, but many people seem to recognize that the shutdown has an immediate impact on their personal safety and community well-being (e.g., schools, libraries, medical care).

      1. What kind of immediate impact are you seeing on schools, libraries, medical care in your community? Everything in mine is long term – eg. cancelled research funding impacts medical care, but in a future, hard-to-predict way (ie. we don’t know what advances we’re *not* getting when because of cancelled grants – and it’s not like any of it was going to dramatically change medical care *this week* anyway).

        1. Our school district provides free lunch and breakfast for all students, and I’ve heard parents voice worry about the district’s availability of funds to pay for it. I’ve heard some parents worry that the FAFSA-woes of last year will be worse this year if Department of Education continues to be shut down. Parents of special-ed kids also seem to be worried. I’m not sure what the particular worries are w/r/t libraries, to be honest. I think it’s generalized anxiety that our small local library, which already functions as a mini social services agency, is going to be over burdened. Some of the conversations understandably conflate the immediate shutdown and the possibility of permanently ending some programs by Congress not funding them or Trump laying off the government workers.

      2. Another reply is in mod, but I didn’t mean “urgent” impact so much as a more proximate impact. Poor word choice on my part. I mean my elderly white lady neighbors are more likely to be impacted by the shutdown than by an ICE raid at their own house.

    20. Our local news stations have a daily counter every morning on their early broadcasts. (Kansas City). The federal government is one of the largest employers in the metro area, so it’s having a huge impact. Missouri announced this morning that SNAP benefits will not be released on 11/1, as well.

    21. Yes but only because I have a friend who practices in administrative courts (they are completely closed for her); and I have an upcoming federal jury trial that may be impacted. Otherwise, don’t hear much about it at all (west coast).

  12. I’m interested in a minimum viable skincare routine. I know that I can spend time on Reddit or Insta and figure this out, but honestly I don’t want to–skincare isn’t interesting to me and I don’t want to trial and error a bunch of stuff. I want someone who knows about skin to look at mine and listen to what I say about it and then tell me what to use and when to make my skin look its best. Presumably a dermatologist could do this, but my instinct is that this is maybe too basic for an actual doctor. That said, if someone here is going to be like, “Girl, this is literally what a dermatologist is for. Call one! Stop anxiety posting!” then cool–glad to learn.

    1. I think the MVP skincare formula is:
      1. Gentle daily wash
      2. moisturizer
      3. sunscreen

      and within those categories, pick the first, cheapest one you try that doesn’t make you break out.

    2. Assuming you do not have a specific concern, best advice I was given was be consistent, pick one brand, buy a cleanser, toner and moisturizer. Tatcha from Sephora is great for this. Your other alternative is to go get a facial and buy what the aesthetician suggests for an easy three step.

    3. I used an online derm for this. Uploaded photos with my concern (rosacea) and they gave me customised cream, and my face is so much better.

    4. If you’ve lived this long without any skincare, then presumably you don’t have disaster skin and it can be treated with some nice basics. Try Clinique. In fact, you can go on their website, take a quiz, and they’ll spit out the exact products that will fit your skin. Easy peasy.

    5. You can make a dermatology appointment to do a skin checkup (which you should do for skin cancer anyway) and they can give you some idea for any specific skin issues you have.

      The basic routine is cleanse at least once a day, moisturize, and wear sunscreen during the day. You can buy something basic from a drugstore like cetaphil or cerave for normal skin.

    6. Highly recommend Dr. Dray on YouTube for this. She’s a dermatologist and a PhD, and super practical. Tons of videos available, and because she doesn’t believe in spending lots of money on unnecessary skincare, her channel is very budget friendly

    7. Skincare is my jam and this is what I think everyone should be doing at a minimum:

      Morning: SPF

      Evening: Double cleanse if you’re wearing makeup, retinol, moisturizer.

      That’s it.

      1. thanks, this is really helpful! How do I chose a retinol? It seems like there are 10 million options…

    8. I have always had a very minimal skin care routine, and cost effective. Here is what it is:
      Morning:
      -moisturizer (with SPF or SPF over it)
      Evening:
      -skin cleanser
      -moisturizer (not one with SPF)
      2x a week while I shower (e.g. Wed and Sat): exfoliate face

      I use drug store/Target/Amazon brands, so you can just try a few like Cetaphil or even Trader Joe’s brands. I have always had great skin and get compliments on it often. I think it is because I don’t overdo it with a ton of products or steps. Honestly, if the process is long or expensive or hard to find products, I would never do any of this. I can’t even add one more step like toner.

  13. Which of these would you cancel for a family funeral (spouse’s older peripheral relatives, like aunts and such); 2-7 hours away from our city:

    Teen SAT
    AP exams
    Teen admitted student day at preferred college senior year
    Teen audition for departmental music program for college where they hold audition days
    Visit to one set of elderly parents with grandchildren

    At that hard point of life where every single thing happens at once and is high stakes now-or-never feeling event.

    1. The only one of these that I would reschedule is the last one. For all of the others, I would either skip the funeral or I would send one parent to the funeral and one parent stays home with the teen, if possible.

      1. I agree and we were in this situation last year when my husband’s aunt died and the funeral was the day my son had his SAT exam. The funeral was 3 hours away. My husband took his mom and our younger daughter to the funeral and I stayed home with my son so he could take his exam. Everyone in the family understood.

      4. Same and would consider not canceling the last one depending on the health of the elderly grandparents and how big a deal the visit was and how close spouse was to the deceased.

        1. But it should go without saying that spouse should go to funeral regardless.

      5. Why does a teen need someone at home while he is at a different location taking a day-long test? He’s probably 17 years old –can’t they stay alone over night?!

    2. Honestly I’d probably really try to make any of these happen still for a funeral for a peripheral relative. Have spouse go solo to the funeral and keep the teen things in progress, as they don’t really have good backup dates. I know there are some people who say “always go to the funeral” but my philosophy veers more toward “life is for the living” when they are in tension.

      (it would be a MUCH harder call for a funeral of a close relative or a friend, though.)

    3. Can teen do any of these while parent(s) most affected by The Honored attends the funeral?

      Shades of gray, people. Not everything is black and white.

      1. Our teen can legally drive but has just started driving solo (no parent in the car). Even among known routes, for a high-stakes day like the SAT (weekends, so no school bus), I’d rather have a parent in town as a backup than have teen do something with driving for the first time solo.

        AP exams are during the school day, so teen could maybe take the bus if parents are away on an all-day funeral trip out of town.

        One kid won’t be 18 until just after graduation, so IDK if she could fly to an out of town college visit solo.

        I’m on Team Send One Parent except for closest family. But even for that, we had a kid at home recovering from surgery when a grandparent died and it was sad, but they were in no shape to travel to an out of town funeral and deal with a hotel and long car ride. Different story when it’s all local.

        1. You can fly alone at 15 and even younger than that (I think as young as 6) if you pay for a flight attendant to accompany your kid.

          1. Right. I flew to Australia twice under 18. Had to have an escort at 14? 15? but not at 17.

    4. This is tough! It partly depends on what the teen wants. I wouldn’t skip an AP exam, or the SAT if this was the only good time to take it. I wouldn’t skip the audition if this was the only weekend and teen was serious about wanting to do it. I might skip the admitted seniors day, but might not if it was super important to the teen (and the relative less important, as sad as that sounds). I’d probably skip a visit to other elderly relatives, provided there will be other opportunities and they’re not on hospice or anything like that.

    5. The direct relative would always go. And if the spouse can swing it to go also (aka, can teen stay with a friend for the tests?) then do that. But unless your family is super close to those peripheral relatives, I would only consider canceling the trip to the grandparents, and probably not even that. My DH has an aunt and uncle that we see as frequently as his parents, and they would be at the “drop almost everything” level. But we are not nearly as close with my aunts and uncles or his other aunts and uncles, and I’d feel comfortable sending just some of the family for those.

    6. in my family, most of the more-distant (in geography and familial relationship) relatives would send the blood relation only to the funeral.

      Of those you listed, the admitted student day seems skippable in general, and would try to reschedule the grandparent visit.

      1. I feel like you can skip the admitted student day more easily if the school is local-ish to you. If you are, say, going to Dartmouth or Bates or somewhere wildly different from where you are from and want to get a sense of a school with kids in it with programming for you, it’s harder to find a random day that works as well (vs college and high school spring breaks not syncing well or no adults being free to talk to students) or just walking around a campus in the rain. It may matter? If it is a place you could drive to more easily and perhaps you already know people / students there, more easy to recreate a sense of place (my fear is that a kid likes a place on paper and has a sudden realization that it’s not for them after all once really settling in at a time it’s supposed to be showing its best side).

        That said, I have always gotten trip insurance due to some serious eldercare issues in my family over the past few years.

        1. I said skippable because the OP notes it’s her kid’s preferred school already. Presumably that means they have seen the campus and are aware of the majors that align with their interests. But if in any doubt, sure, good idea to go.

    7. Probably none. I would send anyone with a strong relationship to the deceased or the deceased’s immediate family. If your Teen doesn’t have a relationship with your husband’s aunt (eg. great aunt) I think it’s fine to skip.

      My kids know my aunts and uncles enough that I would likely have them skip a grandparent visit for the funeral but it would also be a 2 hour trip. They don’t know DH’s aunts/uncles at all.

    8. Nothing for the teen, but you and spouse should go and work out teen staying with a friend.

      1. Yeah, we are going to a family funeral next week and our 8 year old is staying with friends for 48 hours.

    9. Honestly for a high school senior teen, I would discuss and give their preference a lot of weight – a huge part of being an adult is making moral/ethical/value decisions when there’s not a clear answer, and I think it would just be a valuable conversation to talk about different values & how to live them out, model not torturing yourself with guilt when you’re making a choice, and just taking seriously your teen’s developing sense of self and what’s important to them.

      That said! If the funeral is important to you/your kid/your family, 1, 2, (probably 4?), and 5 are reschedulable, at least in my neck of the woods.

    10. Blood relative spouse only would go to their aunt/uncle’s funeral unless the rest of the family was particularly close. Honestly, I have a large, dispersed family and there’s no expectation of nieces and nephews flying in/driving in from a distance to attend all of these.

    11. There are circumstances under which skipping admitted students’ day seems plausible to me (small school, kid’s already visited during term time and is quite confident that school is where they want to be).

    12. is this a real question? assuming i could leave my teen home/ with friends and it wasn’t a relative who they felt close to i would go without them to all of these.

    13. It depends a lot on the relationship. I only have one aunt and would personally go pretty far out of my way to attend her funeral. My husband has dozens of aunts and uncles but hasn’t seen or communicated with any of them in the 15 years we’ve been together so neither of us would bother going to any of their funerals. We don’t have kids, but I wouldn’t cancel any of those events except the last, unless the teen was really close, and maybe not even then (some of those things have alternate dates but others don’t). Send the parent who’s related and leave the other at home with the kid or have them stay with a friend.

    14. I do not understand the funereal gnashing of teeth here over the past couple weeks. I didn’t understand the woman who wanted her husband to take a week off his new job and I don’t understand this.

      First, a high schooler is old enough to spend a weekend on his own. Audition days, SAT, and AP exams are no brainers: kid stays home and parent(s) go. (Are you kidding about skipping the AP exam??) Admitted student day is just marketing; skip that; you can get it all in orientation in the fall — everybody goes to the funeral. And reschedule the visit to the grandparents — everybody goes to the funeral.

      Maybe my family is unique because we all live hours and hours apart, but we’ve always understood that it’s expensive and/or disruptive to life to drop everything for a funeral. For that reason, typically only the blood relative comes to funerals. If you live closer to the deceased, more of your nuclear unit is expected to show up. (Matriarch/patriarch, everybody shows up, almost no matter what.)

      1. Maybe OP is Irish. There’s a reason the obituaries are called “the Irish sports pages”, lol. There is a lot of expectation around attending the funeral of every third cousin in very culturally Irish families.

        That’s not to say I think you need to partake. But I can see how it spurs the question.

        1. Plus it’s an opportunity for the kid to learn that sometimes things we plan and expect to do will have to take a backseat to something that comes up unexpectedly.

          1. I don’t think kids who were in middle and high school for COVID need more lessons in disappointment

          2. To the degree this is a lesson kids need to be “taught,” I don’t think obligating them to attend distant relatives’ funerals is a very efficacious way of doing it…

        2. Also from an Irish family one side, and I do agree with this take, but my family would also be fine if just the spouse attended with other kids while one parent took child to Very Important [X].

        3. Hm, not in my huge Irish Catholic family; we’re not a monolith. You go if you can, no trouble if you can’t. Part of that is that about half the family is outside the other half’s 2-3hour driving radius, the other half is that we’re HUGE (over 15 siblings). My DH’s very large Irish/Italian Catholic fam is the same.

      2. In my city, I think you can’t leave a teen alone for a weekend unless they are 18. And a lot of teens seem not to drive these days. If kid is 17, I don’t think that driving is a given. Not sure my kid is going to walk 3 miles to school even for an SAT when that’s not how they usually get there (dropped off in AM, bus home; none operate on SAT Saturdays).

        1. My sister and I were well behaved Gen Xers who basically raised ourselves, but my parents didn’t let us stay home alone until we were 18 and out of high school

          2. My parents allowed me to stay alone a few times during high school, but I was extremely nerdy and didn’t even have my boyfriend over, never mind a party. I feel like my kids wouldn’t be wild about staying on their own if there was an important event like the SAT, but would be fine otherwise.

        2. Also even if you *can* leave them home alone, it’s kind of crappy to do it right before a big test like for the SAT or AP exams. I was a pretty independent kid who stayed alone overnight a couple times in high school, but I would have been really stressed out about doing it during AP exams. Staying alone is a big thing for a teen, you don’t need to add it onto other big life events.

          1. +1, I would NOT have been in my best state to take the SATs if I was alone in the house for the weekend.

    15. As the parent of a teen in the college admissions process, I’d probably cancel the admitted student day and the elderly parent visit in favor of a funeral. Everything else, I would not cancel in favor of a funeral. The SAT (at least where I live) is a PITA to schedule, ditto AP exams, and the audition process isn’t very flexible.

      That said, my family is generally OK with a single representative from a family unit for funerals, especially if it is a peripheral family member.

    16. I would ask my teenager what he thought in that situation. As for the people saying that we can’t drop everything for funerals, I ask “why not?” It breaks my heart that we have overscheduled ourselves and our teens that we are unable to take time for mourning rituals. Elephants have funerals but we are casting them aside.

    17. I’m not going 7 hours for a funeral of anyone who didn’t attend my birth.

  14. Is anyone aware of “how to recognize scams” and “how to recognize AI” online tutorials for the elderly? Yes, there are plenty of articles, but those won’t do – she really needs a little movie or story to hold her attention, bonus points for the little quizzes at the end of the chapter. And I took her to the “how to recognize scams” class at the library and clearly the instructor had never dealt with an elder because the class wasn’t helpful at all.

    Signed,
    Increasingly desperate and oh-so-frustrated daughter

    4. And they are still going to get scammed –so maybe rearrange their finances. Let, set up a new bank account and allow only a certain amount in their “usual” one that they have access to. It’ll happen no matter how much you try to teach them.

    5. I know an elder who doesn’t respond to anything out of the usual course until she’s run it by her adult children. It isn’t foolproof, but it’s a nice extra layer in addition to scam recognition training.

  15. Any tips for exiting a work slump?

    I’m spending 50% of the day wasting time and feeling guilty about wasting time. There’s not a lot of external deadlines at this time of the year, and I’m having trouble holding myself accountable. Any tips?

    1. This is kinda unhinged, but worked for me: time-timer (physical timer), plus talking to myself narrating what I’m doing as if I’m teaching someone or recording a vlog (I’ve never vlogged in my life lol). Obviously I this only works if you WFH. But for whatever reason the speaking out loud part pulls me out of mindless time-wasting activities.

    2. Get external deadlines set up. Tell your colleagues “I’ll get this to you by tomorrow at noon” even if they didn’t request it. Sounds like you struggle with internal motivation (most of us do) and external deadlines are the biggest antidote to that.

    3. Maybe allocate time to waste? If you only have 4 hours of work, commit that you’ll have it done 2-3 hours by 11 am. Give yourself a leisurely lunch break until 1:30 pm–a time you can credibly say you were away for lunch if something unexpected pops up. Then commit to finishing the remainder by 3. If I know I’m going to waste time, scheduling it in makes me feel less guilty about it. I can see literally on my calendar that I have time to waste. Obviously if things pop up, I adjust. But scheduling the work and scheduling the non-work makes me feel like I made all my time productive.

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