Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Lounge Wrap Wool Knit Cardigan
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
If you’re in the market for a cozy desk sweater to fend off the air conditioning, this wrap cardigan from Lilysilk recently caught my eye. They’re marketing it as a “lounge wrap,” but I think that it would be perfectly work-appropriate layered over a blouse and trousers.
The gray color seems like it would go well with most outfits, but it also comes in a beautiful “pale turquoise” if that’s more your speed.
The sweater is on sale for $261 (marked down from $290) at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XS-XL.
Sales of note for 7/8/25:
- Amazon Prime Day! I just finished our full roundup — check out deals on hair tools from Shark and Dyson, leather jackets from All Saints, classic makeup like Black Honey, as well as deals from Lo & Sons, Rothy's, Theory (love this lady jacket), Levi's, Kate Spade (love these shoes, this tote, and lots of tech gear), Club Monaco, and Gap — full roundup here
- Nordstrom – 2,700+ new markdowns for women — and the Anniversary Sale preview has started!
- Ann Taylor – 40% off your purchase, including new arrivals + summer steals $39+
- Athleta – Last Chance Semi-Annual Sale – Up to 70% off + Extra 30% Off (cute gym bag!)
- Banana Republic Factory – July Fourth Event, 50-70% off everything + extra 25% off
- Boden – Final call sale, up to 60% off + extra 10%
- Eloquii – Flash sale, extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – End of season sale, up to extra 70% off sale styles with code
- J.Crew Factory – All-Star Sale, 40-70% off entire site and storewide and extra 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Sale on sale! Extra 25% on already discounted merchandise! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Rothy's – Up to 50% off seasonal faves, plus new penny loafers and slingbacks
- Spanx – End of season sale, get an extra 30% off sale styles
- Talbots – 40% off your entire purchase, + free shipping on $150+
Shoes/clothing recommendations for Italy? Heading to Rome, Naples, Florence and Venice in two weeks so it’ll be very hot with a ton of walking. Would Birkenstock Mayari’s be too frumpy? Nike Killshot sneakers? I like wearing sandals vs. closed-toe shoes but thinking for Pompeii etc. it might be dicey.
Mayaris aren’t too frumpy, but are they comfortable for you for that much walking? I just wear sneakers in Europe.
AnonOP-yeah, I’ve done some intense hikes in Birks before so for me they’re more comfy than sneakers.
There are cobblestone streets in Rome and Pompeii terrain is a bit rugged too and also dusty, so I’d recommend the closed sneakers.
I feel like my feet are so gross and dusty when I wear sandals.
Naturalizer makes flats that are comfortable enough for trekking around. Recommend those, and a crossbody.
No flats that can’t be worn with socks. In that heat it’s a recipe for blisters.
OP you just want sneakers. I just returned from Paris and did cute dresses and skirts or linen pants with sneakers, like everyone else including locals. Don’t be a hero.
New balances are good as are adidas and Nikes, both athletic and style sneaks.
I wore sandals for a day in Ostia (ancient city, probably similar to Pompeii in that regard) in July and my feet were incredibly dirty. Definitely recommend closed-toed shoes!
Wear athletic shoes or similar sturdy walking shoes that are well ventilated. I just came back from Florence and the pavement is brutally hard and uneven as well as dirty. Tons of stylish Italian women wearing Skechers or similar, don’t worry about the frump, it’s better than a twisted ankle.
Good to know! I sprained my ankle a few months ago, so ankle is still somewhat dicey.
I was there for three weeks and near the end had to ice my feet (still recovering from a broken foot six months ago + mild arthritis), but it was my husband, who is a sturdy walker, who fell – and not after a glass of wine or two, either! He’s lucky he didn’t twist an ankle or break a wrist.
I think the key for a trip like this is shoes that you already have experience walking in a lot. For a similar Italy trip 6 years ago, I brought a pair of athletic sneakers and a pair of Rothys…which might have sounded nuts since they’re not known for good support, but I regularly walked many city miles in my Rothys at home, and they were great for me for the city days.
Sneakers during the day and comfortable sandals at night. Changing shoes really helped my feet.
What clothing did you enjoy wearing the most? I’m thinking dresses vs. shorts/jeans/pants for comfort and to be slightly dressed up. Especially curious how local women dressed.
At this time of year, linen everything. Keep in mind that dresses will need to cover your shoulders and reach your knees to enter churches; if you wear sleeveless or thin strap dresses you’ll need a pashmina.
Honestly, no one is going to mistake you for Italian. I don’t get why tourists worry so much about looking like tourists. Its’ what you are, there’s no shame! Dress for comfort and appropriateness for the holy sites.
I’m second-gen Italian-American so they might :) But yeah I’ll probably look like an American-just curious about local fashion.
I agree, the obsession with not looking like a tourist is dumb. You’re doing touristy things. You’re gonna look like a tourist.
I was there last year (Rome, Florence and Napes/Sorrento). It was less formal in the south and outside Rome, but I generally found that adult Italian women (like French ones) do not wear shorts or athletic wear. Lot of midi-length skirts/dresses and linen or linen blend pants. I saw walking shorts but I think those were mostly on British tourists. That said, they would not be out of place but can be an issue if you want to stop and look at a cool church.
For my tastes it is much too hot for jeans. I just got back from France and got a lot of wear out of linen pants and a midi-skirt with cotton tops that covered my arms (I need the sun protection, plus it means I do not have to worry about churches) and a couple of cotton midi-dresses that covered my shoulders. I took two pairs of sneakers – one white and very low profile and one pair of dressy flats that I could still walk in.
Half of Paris was wearing Birks but for Pompeii I would absolutely take sneakers! That place is amazing but an invitation to a sprained ankle. Also, take a hat. People love to say Europeans don’t wear baseball caps but I found that they mostly just do not wear ones with sports teams logos and I saw a lot of people in Naples (particularly young people) wearing Yankees or Dodgers hats!
Grazie! This was very helpful.
Yes to linen (dresses or wide legged pants) and cute street sneakers. Rome is dusty, with well worn cobblestones, and the combo can be surprisingly slick!
I walked 12 miles in Mayaris on a summer day in NYC.
I did Rome, a day in Florence, then the rest of the trip in Venice. For all the walking, I wore Skechers Women’s Go Walk 5-Honor Sneaker (if you go to the amazon listing for the shoe, you can see the “light gray” option that I wore). They were great! If we were going to dinner or something that was close, I had “nicer” sandals. I also heard that Dr. Scholl’s Women’s Time Off Max Lace-Up Platform Sneakers are great for lots of walking.
Whatever you want to wear in your family photos that bridges the line between photogenic and comfortable. I wear my allbirds tree breezers for every walking trip with smartwood no show socks.
I wore On Cloud sneakers, comfy and good grip on cobblestones
Between fluctuating weight and now full RTO (up from 2x a week), I am lacking in work clothes. My office is casual (jeans any day of the week, cute sneakers and nice sandals okay…basically the men just wear jeans or khakis, a polo, and sneaks and women kind of run the gamut).
I need some inspiration for affordable work outfits. I also walk to work in the very muggy mid Atlantic (currently mid 80s with 80% humidity). Currently I’m wearing a rotation of Old Navy dresses, linen pants, and sleeveless sweaters … but I literally have 6 work outfits.
I like to look nice and current but I don’t need to be super trendy. I’m 30, a short pear, and size has been fluctuating between a 4/6 and a 10 (currently an 8).
REI has a really nice store-brand travel dress right now. I’ve also found some dresses I like at Eastern Mountain Sports, Prana, Toad and Co, Kuhl. The REI dress might be the most flattering dress I’ve bought in years (has a waistline but doesn’t accentuate stomach.)
https://www.rei.com/product/243596/rei-co-op-savanna-trails-dress?sku=2435960001&CAWELAID=120217890019398963
Very nice. Southern Tide has some similar ones in a performance fabric. Lilly Pulitzer too, although those are printed. Spanx also has something similar.
Lilly has some solids in pants (their golf pants, in performance fabrics). I am obsessed with their golf dresses because they have undershorts and pockets.
I’ve just discovered dresses like this and I love this one. It’s a usable casual dress.
OP Anon – I’m a similar size to you (maybe a little larger) and these are some pieces I’ve bought and got a lot of good use out of recently:
Uniqlo Mini Dress, size M – I’m 5’4″ so it’s above the knee but not mini on me. I have the more performance fabric but it comes in linen too.
Athleta short sleeved romper – I can’t find it on the website so maybe it’s not sold anymore, but they had a lot of work/travel clothes that seemed great. This one is dark blue, short sleeves, and has buttons. Depends on how casual your office is.
Athleta Endless pants, size 10L – They come in a lot of colors, and aren’t that heavy. I think they could be a great pant for work. They’re a little cropped so I got the longer length online and that’s the perfect length.
loft on a 50% off day is great work work clothes.
I have been getting a lot of stuff used on ThredUp, which works fairly well if you know your size in specific brands. Otherwise, check out J Crew Factory. In slightly cooler weather I do a lot of JCF Girlfriend Chinos + short sleeved silk or silk-blend shirt + JCF cotton sweater blazers. Now that it is truly gross, I’m wearing more dresses and skirts. Banana Republic Factory has a number of dresses and a long linen midi skirt that I liked, although I had to sew up the front seam.
I am similarly shaped. I love the Anthropologie Maeve pant in linen or ponte— they are super stretchy, so go down a size (and I never believe when people say that, but really do). I have olive, navy, chocolate brown and pink. I wear them a ton with printed tops I buy at a couple local boutiques. THML is the brand and you can find them online. They can be interesting under a blazer or even with the dreaded jean jacket. Cute, more put together than a tshirt, and are size forgiving if you fluctuate.
Good with sandals, a cute sneaker or a loafer into the fall.
There have been a few posts lately touching on family members/spouses with anxiety and navigating decision-making with them. I’m familiar (for kids) with the concept of not “accommodating” anxiety, which means not changing plans or taking actions specifically to alleviate anxiety (example: if your four-year-old is anxious about the house burning down, you don’t go buy a fire extinguisher for every room and stay up nights watching for smoke trails). Instead, psychologists/psychiatrists generally recommend safely increasing exposure to the thing causing anxiety to help the child overcome it.
What do you do with adults in your life, though? Obviously you don’t control them or make decisions for them – definitely not suggesting that – but if another adult you have plans with wants to make an anxiety-driven change to the plan, what is the best way to respond? To use another example, let’s say you have plans to go see a show with your mother at 7 pm and have dinner first. Let’s assume that time/plan is the best for your schedule and that it works for hers too. Then your mother starts expressing anxiety about being out late because of crime, even though you’ll be in a very safe area. Do you switch to the matinee showing? Cancel altogether? I’m wary of trying to work on their mental health for them and it seems like making an effort to not accommodate anxiety could fall into that bucket, but I’m also wary of always changing the plan and then inconveniencing others and dealing with the long-term risks that can come from that, like people stopping wanting to make plans or the individuals self-isolating.
Very interested to hear how to navigate this since I have several people in my life whom I love and who also deal with anxiety that can negatively impact get-togethers (flakiness, extra stress applied to everything, etc.) Also, I really don’t mean good-faith disagreements about common sense precautions (the gas tank example), but things that most people can reasonably agree are anxiety-driven or that the person themself says is anxiety.
It is difficult to reason with adults with anxiety the same way you would for a child. By adulthood a more effective treatment would be CBT or another treatment from a professional. Also, I think it’s natural for people to become more anxious as they get older. I usually accommodate these requests as much as reasonable. In the example you gave, if my mom wanted to switch to a matinee showing so she wouldn’t have to walk in the dark, I would either switch to the matinee showing if it worked with my schedule, or cancel and find another date/time/activity with her. It sounds like you have several people in your life who change plans last minute due to these anxiety spirals, and it must be frustrating. You may have to change how you spend time with them, or spend less time with them to protect your own sanity.
Yeah, the last-minute plan changes are a struggle, I admit. It’s hard to get plans on the calendar with people’s schedules and frustrating to have to reconfigure things. I don’t feel like I would care if Mom wanted to do the matinee right off the bat, but to send a bunch of messages about crime hinting that we should change the plan is frankly annoying.
My mom has anxiety, and I try not to accommodate that.
One of her big triggers is wanting to get everywhere early — for example, she wants to get to the airport for a domestic flight 3 to 4 hours before boarding starts. I refuse to do that. Instead, I tell her I’d be willing to get to the airport ( two hours before flight time — earlier than I’d go on my own, but not ridiculously early. ) her choice is then to accept it or take her own cab to the airport.
Your example is harder, because there’s not an option to meet at the event. Does the theater have parking? I would propose to my mom that we spring for the theater parking (which is probably 2-3 times the price of something down the block) in order to meet her concern. But I wouldn’t change the ticket times.
This isn’t foolproof by any means. But I always say something like, “Okay. How would you like to handle this?” Often there’s no real answer; they just are spinning in the anxiety. That’s tough, but typically in that case I say, “Okay. I understand you’re nervous, but we’ll stick to the plan and it’ll be okay.” Repeat.
Sometimes they’ll say something. In the example above, maybe the mom says, “I want to change to a matinee.” Then you can respond in kind — agree, or say that you can’t do that and you’d like to stick to the plan. She can then make her choice to go or not to go, etc. You can also say something (kindly), such as, “I hear you, but this is your anxiety talking. Let’s stick to our plan.”
As for not “accomodating” anxiety — right, sort of. You don’t gymnastically turn yourself around to accommodate anxiety. But disciplining, over-explaining, blowing it off — those aren’t mechanisms of not accomodating anxiety. Those are unkind. And perhaps more important to some people on this board, those are not effective.
Don’t argue about whether the anxiety is warranted. People on previous threads were making what they thought of as logical or lawyerly arguments and it’s awful when people do that.
Telling someone it’s their anxiety talking? Yeah, that’s going to go over about as well as telling someone to calm down during a disagreement.
You can put it differently — I meant it kindly. So maybe something more like, “You sound anxious.”
This is such a literalist board, my god.
It really doesn’t work. It’s like telling a woman she’s being irrational because she’s on her period. It’s insulting and is likely to have the opposite reaction you (assuming good intentions) were hoping for.
That hasn’t been my experience, but of course YMMV according to who you’re talking to, what you’re actually saying, etc.
I’ve said it, and I’ve had it said to me. It’s been useful. But again, that’s just my experience and you certainly don’t have to listen to it.
Anxiety talking=trusting your gut. What’s the difference?
Non-anxious person here, and my gut goes really well on intuition. But I’m not anxious. If I were anxious, I see it like a brain over-reacting to something that’s not in fact a problem, sort of like how my allergies are an incorrect response to something in the environment. It senses poison where there isn’t any.
Can you explain the allergies? It was my understanding that allergies are a very direct response to something in the environment.
Not the poster above but I think the point she’s making is that allergies are an overreaction to an otherwise harmless substance. Like my kid has a dairy allergy and the allergy is her body overreacting to something which is not inherently dangerous. Same with my pollen allergies. Very real and direct reactions but the substances are not objectively harmful to others. Similarly with anxiety, the stressor is not necessarily objectively dangerous but the person’s body reacts as though it is.
But the allergy response is generally a haywire immune response to something not in fact harmful or lethal (and it’s the allergy response that can kill you, like from a bee sting). This is different than an actual poison or venom that would kill everyone (ricin, snakebites). A bee sting or egg or dairy or wheat shouldn’t be harmful, but an allergy tricks the body into a response that can block airways or otherwise be harmful. It’s nutty. The cure (sometimes) is exposure therapy (eg allergy shots) that get the body to calm TF down because they aren’t in fact under attack. It isn’t always possible but it’s a mercy when it works (I know someone who had some sort of eosinophil problem that was hugely problematic now overcome it with a biologic medicine so he can eat like the rest of us and do normal kid things).
lol. The difference between trusting your gut and anxiety is the difference between my fears and everyone else’s
I used to think that allergy shots were a type of exposure therapy that got the body to calm down. But when I looked this up, it didn’t seem to be the actual way the shots work (it seemed as though they actually trigger a different immune response to neutralize the more dangerous one??).
Really good response.
Yes, actually. With this type of person I would only plan on a matinee and lunch option.
I generally try to find a half way point. The person is a little more uncomfortable than they would like but the plan is not impractical to my life. So for the airport example, I would take the recommended time from the airport or airline website (generally two hours) and suggest a half hour earlier than the recommended time so they feel reassured that there is additional time built in if something goes wrong but not so much time that it becomes impractical like 4 hours ahead.
For my mom, I know she is more concerned about falls and is cautious at night. Sometimes she gets quite tired in the evenings. I would either do the lunch and matinee or perhaps do an uber or car service instead of driving so that we are not walking in a parking lot at night.
An accommodation for fatigue or elderly fall risk is different from a last-minute one for anxiety, though.
So make different plans. Some people genuinely don’t want to be out at night but will never say so. Plan differently.
Some people want to get to the airport ahead of time and not do nonsense worrying. Plan to get there early and have a few drinks at the bar once you clear security.
Not everyone wants to navigate self-inflicted time constraints or nighttime perils.
I think one of the problems with older people that start acting more anxious is that it does actually come partially from the fact that they feel less physically capable. Their vision isn’t quite as good, their reaction rimes are slower, their balance is a little worse, they can’t hear quite as well, they get tired more easily, and so on. But they either have a hard time articulating this or don’t want to admit it, to their children and so it’s easier for it to manifest as a general anxiety or other weird excuses, like not wanting to be out late, or drive in traffic. If you don’t try to argue with their literal points and accept that they’re just not comfortable in certain situations, you’ll probably have better luck dealing with it. But be open to thinking about whether there are other accommodations that would make it easier to do activities they enjoy. Like in this situation, why not just go to a matinee?
This. There is a simple solution, and that’s to go at a better time.
That may be true for some people, but it wasn’t for my parents or in laws. Once they stopped working, they just basically disengaged from the world — lots of watching tv and no social outings. Their anxiety was a result of their isolation and wasn’t limited to things they were themselves doing. They all got put on an information diet because we didn’t want to deal with their anxiety over our choices.
You really have no idea what is going on in their heads.
OP knows her parent best but I find my mom is more likely to blame non-age related factors for her preferences and struggles to say things like ‘I’m older and don’t like being out after dark’ and tries to make it less personal by finding an ‘objective’ thing to blame. I often find out how she’s actually thinking when she talks about her friends concerns and describes them as relatable.
It’s also a long standing situation that older people are more worried about crime. That’s not new or specific to OP’s mom.
This is my mom. She is superhuman and hasn’t slowed down or experienced diminished capacities in any way! But the world around her has changed; things aren’t the way they were when she was younger, there are all these objective reasons for concern, in fact I should share these concerns with her.
I agree that I don’t think that exposure therapy is intended to be a DIY community effort where everyone works on someone’s mental health unless a provider has said otherwise, since it can be counterproductive or not indicated (vs. say CBT, but that’s really not DIY either).
I’m not sure how changing the plan comes up in the example you gave. If an anxious person is just expressing anxiety, I don’t even think of changing plans, but that’s because I figure they’ll show up and be anxious like usual. It sounds like in this scenario it’s possible the person will say they’re coming and then flake at the last minute, whereas they might have come in the plan was changed? If they’re being inconsiderate of others, does it help them to remember that, or does it make them guilty and more likely to flake? If someone can identify their anxiety as such, can they also discuss specific plans with their therapist? Since you’re talking about adults, is it a start to respond with “how can I help?” and see what they say?
I think with adults, it is not your job to fix the anxiety, so you don’t need to worry about whether by accommodating it you are making it worse – that is their problem. I cannot emphasize this enough: you do not need to fix other adults, especially your parents. You can’t, so don’t take that on! Make plans assuming the person is never going to change, and then if they do, that will be a pleasant surprise.
Instead, focus on what is going to be least disruptive to you while still allowing you and the other adult to enjoy the time together. It can be hard to figure out the right balance, especially when there is a group of people involved, and you’ll never get it exactly right, but that’s the middle path I aim for. In this example, unless switching to the matinee is a huge inconvenience for you, I would just switch it. If there are other people involved, that changes the calculation and you have to balance the needs of more people in deciding what to do. In that case, the anxious adult may have to miss out on the gathering.
What’s the line between being anxious and “having anxiety?”
Last year, I was very anxious about a work trip to NYC. I was taking the train for the first time and also navigating the subway by myself. My boyfriend and another friend who had done this trip many times, talked me through how it all worked, and helped me develop strategies for (kind of dumb) things I was worried about. The trip went very well and I would be able to do it again without as much stress.
It depends on the person, but for me, taking my worries seriously but being realistic, in a kind way, about how valid they are, and coming up with options and strategies to deal with the things I’m worried about is helpful.
But I am very unlikely to cancel a thing I’ve agreed to because I’m anxious about it.
This doesn’t sound disordered to me personally. Plenty of people cannot reliably figure out public transit on the fly without anyone checking their assumptions, and it may also have been that this wasn’t a good trip for learning from mistakes. I think it’s not an anxiety disorder until it becomes irrational and someone is resisting the options and strategies and help, or the help just makes no difference? But I think it’s normal that some people prefer to be more prepared and have lower risk tolerance for things going wrong, even if other people prefer to wing it and accept the risks of winging it; that’s just differences between people.
I think the line is whether it’s a consistent thing. You were anxious about the trip to NYC. Once that passed, did you find something else to be anxious about? Do you always have something you are worried about? Do that stop you from doing things? If the answer to all those questions is yes, you probably have anxiety.
Hahahahaha, I’m a fed, so yeah, I’m always worried about something these days.
I went through a phase of being very anxious about travel. But if I wanted to see my family, I had to travel. For me, the only way out was through. I still don’t love traveling the way many here seem to, but a combo of just doing it and applying some CBT techniques I’d learned years ago did help.
When people are adults it’s not my business why they don’t want to do something. I have things I don’t want to do too. We look for things that everyone is comfortable with and do that.
I think the problem is that non-psychologists are often determining what is “anxiety” in others and that’s often not appropriate or even very clear cut, especially with aging. The 3 hours at the airport turns from something not necessary and completely anxious to someone who walks slower, needs to use the washroom pre-flight, retired from the job that covers pre-check so gets stuck in longer lines, etc. etc. At some point that pivots to being a real concern that often isn’t recognized by others around who are used to it being anxiety. Yesterday’s driving example bordered on this to me when reading because I’ve seen driving confidence diminish in that period after 70 with my own mom who is not an anxious person generally. But she no longer drives if there’s a chance it will be near evening, avoids unfamiliar roads, limits trips in busy areas, etc. now because she recognizes her vision and reaction times aren’t what they used to be.
The worst anxiety symptoms I ever experienced were when I had a medical condition that was affecting my capacities and also my nerves (and my sleep). I was lucky that it was treatable! But it felt like the default assumption at first was that anxiety was the underlying issue and not a symptom of something else, when it was. After that experience, I always wonder whether with aging, things start to go wrong and that manifests as a secondary anxiety, but the underlying issue is not always as treatable (or simply goes undiagnosed because it seems normal and less like a mystery).
I’m the person who gave the airport example. Our local airport is small and never has a line at TSA. My mom is always at the gate over two hours before the flight starts boarding, and often three hours. But that doesn’t stop her from wanting to leave multiple hours early the next time. I feel fine, labeling that anxiety, especially because that is one of hundreds of examples I could provide.
I am not elderly and travel regularly but I also like to be there early. It is nice to not have to rush at all. It completely eliminates travel stress. I’m not anxious, I don’t have anxiety. I have a preference. Only my husband is obligated to deal with it and he does – it’s not that important to him to “win” on this point and I give in on his preferences. There is more than one way to do something.
The difference between a preference for being early and anxiety about being early is that if you are overanxious about being early you will drive your family crazy trying to rush them out the door far earlier than necessary.
That “necessary” is somewhat subjective though. I have friend who is consistently the last one to board and misses flights all the time. She’s an adult—so it’s on me if I want to arrive separately or not travel together at all. Same with the person getting there too early. A lot is in the eye of the beholder on what is ideal and “driving you crazy.”
OP here and to clarify, I’m always happy to work with family upfront – if mom suggested the matinee and it worked with my schedule, then of course we can do that. The issue is the last-minute changes when anxiety crops up. I can’t always predict when that is going to happen, I’ve lost money on bookings due to last-minute flakiness, and I can’t always find a babysitter or do everything
else I need to do at the last minute. I also don’t feel like I should have to – there’s gotta be a better way.
You do have to, whether you like it or not. Otherwise this is going to keep happening. You can’t control your mom so you have to control yourself. Just start operating with matinee as the default option if it’s just the two of you.
Agreed. You do. And at this point you probably have a pretty good idea of what she’s not going to want to do when the moment arrives. So plan accordingly.
The matinee thing was just an example. I can’t always predict how someone’s anxiety is going to manifest and at some point, I have to take them at face value when they agree to a plan and sound excited about it.
That’s interesting and might be person specific. I never take anyone at face value when they agree to do something (work, personal life, whatever, there’s like a 70% not gonna happen rate.)
So I’ll pitch something. If there are tickets involved, I’ll buy the tickets but have someone else in mind if the person flakes. If it’s something like a meeting, I’ll have a few back up dates or alternative communication methods (email, phone call, whatever). But usually I try to plan something where a change doesn’t matter, or I can go alone, like a movie, dinner, a minor league baseball game, or a trip to the beach.
But it’s a little simple to think that people will agree to things and then be prepared to do them 3-4 weeks later.
I can’t imagine being that adults would flake on plans like 70% of the time. But I also can’t remember the last time someone cancelled on me last minute for something involving tickets that didn’t involve an illness.
I have two people in my life that are flakes, and I get together with them a lot less often as a result because I don’t make individual plans with them. If you have a habit of canceling last minute, you only get invited to a group events where it doesn’t matter whether you show up.
You can’t change your mother unless she wants to actually change. Trust me that took a decade to learn. What we typically do is operate as a benevolent event planning dictatorship – e.g., tickets are purchased for this night, she can come or one of our friends will join, plans are made and presented to her, etc. Same for airports – I will be going to the airport at a certain time, she can come with at that time or find her own transportation. Key is you have to make peace with the fact that she may choose not to join, and be ok with that.
I say that we have tickets and reservations and I’m excited to go and hopefully will see her there. And then next time I don’t plan that activity again.
My mom has a lot of anxiety. I ignore it, because if we didn’t, we would never do anything or go anywhere. For example, she’s afraid to drive, be a passenger, drive in rain, snow (she lives in the south), other people driving cars on the road, traffic, etc. She gets anxious if someone makes her cold cereal because they might not put in the right amount of milk. This is while you are actually standing next to her at the table holding the milk carton…”but what if you do it wrong!”
She’s had therapy, she took medication in the past, but she is totally convinced she is right and the rest of the world is wrong. Her anxiety makes everyone around her nervous, and has negatively impacted her children. So, no, I do nothing to accommodate it.
I think it is so contextual and also you can’t always take the stated reason as fact. My mother is elderly and there’s a strong family history of dementia, so for her, I’d accommodate the fear, because it probably is more a fear of lower cognitive function at night. She doesn’t have lower cognitive function at night yet, but she is afraid of it, and I mean, I get it. But if my 45 year old sister expressed the same concern, I would tell her I would be sad to miss her and find a new companion.
You have to respect adults as adults. They are entitled to their risk assessment. You don’t have to agree with them, but you have to respect them. Unless of course they are no longer capable of making their own decisions, which is a different issue.
And based on the discussions on this board lately – we should accept the possibility that we might be wrong in a particular circumstance. Maybe your risk assessment is too low. Not to dredge this up again, but as someone who learned to drive in LA traffic, it was crazy to me that so many people drive around on an empty tank. My risk assessment is calibrated differently because I learned and live/d in a different setting than those people probably did. Driving on E is irresponsible in LA, but it’s apparently fine in other places — sometimes it’s all about the circumstances. It was really bothersome to me to see him reasonable safety precautions dismissed as “anxiety” though.
In the example with mom, I’d pay extra for parking or an uber to make her feel more comfortable. And god forbid you actually got mugged outside the theater, you’ll never get the woman out of the house again. Sometimes it’s easier to default to the more cautious person’s preference.
100% this.
Yeah, totally agree with this. I said this same because I live in a disaster prone area where you wouldn’t want to get caught with low tank of gas in an emergency. But the other thing that plays into my calculation is that we drive so little that it’s really not a big deal to keep the tank relatively full. We get gas less than once a month, so it’s not that hard to fill up with plenty of time to spare. If you drive a lot and have to fill up multiple times a week, I can see how that would be more annoying. The same goes for the matinee vs evening theater performance. I’d suggest just going to matinees since that seems to be her preference (whether it’s really about crime or not who knows), but if there are scheduling reasons why that’s a problem, then it’s a harder decision.
Change your plans because you’re not going to change the person.
Parents of teens and young adults and actual younger adults, please chime in. We got Greenlight debit cards for our kids and they have mostly served us well (one hiccup was on one kid’s recent school trip abroad where some vendors wanted a parent to sign and I was at home working not in the trip or not being able to withdraw cash). Hooking the card up to Apple Pay solved all issues but withdrawing cash (kid also had a small supply of Euros and additional dollars). Kiddo insists that most teens have credit cards (on the parents account, no doubt). Maybe they do? I thought that a Greenlight type debit card would last until they could open a checking account of their own and I favor debit cards over credit cards for kids (but going away to college could be different but I also don’t think they need $$$ for books like I did). And once they have a job, like this year or next summer, they’d need a bank account. What do people do now? So much is virtual and I have a mix of accounts at banks too big to fail (one with some perks due to a business loan we have there) and places like Ally. Sometimes it is good to have a bank you can go into. IDK what a good next step is.
Back in ye olden times, I got a bank account at the local credit union with my parent as the co-owner of the account. That linked to a debit card and I could take out my own cash at ATMs.
Yes, in present day this is still a great option and fairly standard.
Also, this helps to start building credit for the kids, which is a great idea.
Does a debit card build credit though?
My mom took out the student loans for college in my name and paid them (thank you mom!!) to help build my credit.
I would hope someone couldn’t take out loans in your name now. I’d be happy to have a Dickens-type benefactor to pay them though (again, not sure how to do that either).
For the credit, my parents added me as an authorized user on their card, which gave me their credit history and score, so even when I check credit karma, it stills lists my starting account date as when my parents had their first card with that issuer (they never took me off, even though I’m old now, but I don’t have a card from them). I never had any trouble getting my first card or using it after that, but everyone’s mileage may vary based on what’s true today for reporting. My credit union, the one I originally got an account with, also offered a secured credit card with like a $500 limit, but we didn’t end up doing that.
That has been the case for my own kids. Our timely payments on our shared credit card has helped them establish credit scores. Even though they are just authorized users and had nothing to do with originally applying for the card.
I also got an account linked to my parents account at a Big Bank. I used that account for a long time but eventually switched banks as an adult so my parents weren’t so linked to my finances. I still have that account open because it makes money transfer easy and I have a credit card there.
So for a few years we had au pairs and figured out a good solution for that – we had a bank account that was under our name but also had the au pair get a debit card. Mastercard logo, worked like a credit card, but was a separate checking account. We just kept about $200 in there and could really easily just transfer more $$ in.
The key for me is that it was at the bank that my ‘main’ checking is at… so it was really easy to just transfer in cash if needed. This will be the solution for my kids because it worked so well.
Our teen has a regular debit card from our bank. I’ve heard of too many stories where Greenlight hasn’t worked well.
I’ve had to Venmo $ to a kid’s roommate or adult on a sports trip when kids’ cards acted weird. I’m assuming it’s some programmed thing because it’s a debit card or they are minors because this stuff never happens to me.
For anyone, I’d never link Venmo to a bank account, have it public, or keep it other than with as many passwords as possible. Too easy to lose your $ if your phone is stolen (common in bars in my city).
My kids have their own checking accounts with debit cards and tap for most purchases.
You can used a prepaid credit card as well for travel. That way there is a spending limit.
We’re pretty open about finances. They know we put everything on credit cards for the airline points which is how we travel but that we pay off the credit card every single month no exceptions.
When my (now early 20’s) kids started their first jobs, we opened a joint debit and savings account for them, with a debit card that they could use to access their own money. I took my name off when they turned 18 and could hold the account themselves. They still have a credit card on my account, in their names, to use when I give permission (something I’ve agreed to pay for, when they run an errand for me, etc.). We haven’t found a need for a specific new-fangled financial product.
My teen has had her own checking account with a debit card since she was 13. I am a joint accountholder and can see all her transactions. It’s linked to my checking account, so when she was younger and got an allowance I could easily transfer it.
When she was 17 and heading off to college I made her an authorized user on my MasterCard account, which I rarely use because I put almost everything on AmEx. She uses the credit card for most purchases and is responsible for paying the bill. I will make a separate payment to cover any charges she makes that I am still responsible for (e.g., plane tickets, groceries I ask her to pick up while she’s home on break, school fees), or my own rare usage of the card at places that don’t accept AmEx.
I prefer that she uses the credit card instead of her debit card because it’s less risky. If the card number is stolen it doesn’t give access to her bank account, holds don’t tie up actual money, and fraud protections are generally better. When she was living at home and just dealing with limited allowance funds this wasn’t as big a concern, but now that she’s away at school and has a fair amount of money she’s earned in her checking account the credit card feels much safer.
I believe students now have to be 18 and have verifiable income to get their own credit cards. Now that my daughter is 18 and has a job, I am going to talk with her about whether she wants to open her own account to start building credit history.
We have a debit account set up in kiddo’s name with a small amount of money that they can draw from on these storts of trips. Our credit cards also allow an ‘authorized user’ to be added, which is what my parents did for me back in the 90s until I graduated from college. Largely that was for big purchases/pre-agreed shopping (you can spend up to Y dollars for back to school clothing, anything more is on you, etc.).
I had my own bank account from like age 8? My mom was co owner and I had a debit card which accessed my account, the second I turned 18 my mom was removed as co-owner from the account. This account is where ally birthday and pay cheques went.
I think that now they have to be UGMA accounts, so often an adult may have to co-sign withdrawals. And they have the $ without restriction at 18 (so hard to put $ into the account possibly, depending on the bank).
I think one thing is at 18, just have them open a regular adult bank account that they own and have them put the parents (or whomever) on as additional signatories (not owners) or authorized users. They could deal with their own debit card and still have an authorized small-limit credit card on a parent’s cc account for big purchases / authorized purchases / etc.
I am really suspicious of all the “new” financial accounts and products. They all seem to be less reliable than a good old checking account with a debit card, and to have fewer protections in the case of fraud.
My bank (Chase) allowed me to add a teen account (which is similar I think to Greenlight) for the 14yo and a “high school account” for my 17yo. Both have debit cards. They are linked to my accounts so I can transfer money to them. It’s been pretty straightforward though we did have to physically go into the bank with all of our IDs to set everything up.
My 13-y-o has had a credit card for a few years — I went through my Chase Business account because I could set limits pretty easily (to $500) but I’d be surprised if you can’t do the same on regular credit cards.
Giving them access to credit card starts their credit report running — I believe your score is higher if it’s been open longer.
Kiddo is now mid-20s. She got a checking and savings account at a bank that provided those for free to minors in her early teens with a debit card tied to the checking account. I have an account at the same bank, so it made it easy for me to transfer money into her account when needed. My name was on the account until she graduated from college.
She was an authorized user on my credit card (in fact she still is – she just never uses it) when she was under 18 for gas. Card skimming was a huge issue at the time so I did not want her using a debit card and our agreement was I would pay for gas but she had to run errands without complaining about it. She got a credit card in her own name (a Discover card with a very low limit) once she started college for travel and other big purchases that are safer with a credit card. She paid that but I reimbursed her for anything I agreed to be responsible for. She also set up a Venmo account in college that she and her roommates used for utilities, etc. I am not sure what app “the youth” are using these days for splitting costs.
She is very financially responsible, although still learning and all of this was a good opportunity to talk about credit vs. debit, the different uses of each and the importance of a good credit score.
My kids have teen checking accounts through Capital One, connected to their savings accounts. When my oldest turned 16 and started driving we added him as an authorized user to our credit card for gas. He also runs a lot of errands for me and it is more convenient than reimbursing his debit card. He is going to Europe this summer so we wanted him to have a card with no foreign transaction fees and avoid any issues with a teen debit card like the OP.
Random question: have you saved money buying insurance through a broker versus just buying something online yourself? In the process of moving and have gotten new homeowner’s insurance quotes from two brokers and a few directly online (allstate, etc.) and for apples-to-apples policies, the online options are always cheaper. I thought the point of a broker was that they could find better rates? Am I missing something?
You’re mostly not missing anything. Online may just be cheaper this time. The future thing you may miss is that whomever you go with will gradually raise your rates such that switching will probably save you money. Loyalty is punished by insurance companies rather than rewarded.
Yes, I try to shop around every year to see if I can find a better rate. So annoying.
A broker is there to get you insurance in hard to insure situations. I don’t use ours to save money but to get insurance in places where major carriers have pulled out.
This makes sense!
Yep – we had trouble getting homeowners insurance for a variety or reasons, and had to go with a broker since most major insurers would not insure us. However, I tried to use a broker for car insurance and got a better rate searching on my own.
My husband had a broker, which I thought was a little overkill, but it has been very helpful for someone who is experienced in viewing these policies get to know us personally, and advise the best options for us. I think it works out to about the same cost. We might’ve paid a slight premium, but he’s served us well in talking us out of useless coverage, and upping what we really needed.
A question inspired by a query from my mom:
How much do your kids care about what they wear? How old are they? Where does the care come from (what’s trendy, sensory, preferred brands and colours)?
And the reverse, how much do you care about what your kids wear (brands, quality, colours, etc).
Oops, one clearly meant for the moms page. Will repost over there.
I know this isn’t the mom’s board and I don’t even have kids (and don’t want them), but as a former kid, I actually find it quite offensive to think that kids shouldn’t have opinions on what they wear. For me, this was the root of the earliest mother-daughter fights, when my mom had to face the reality that I wasn’t just a pretty little doll to be dressed in cute outfits, but a real person who had thoughts about what I was wearing. For me, a lot of it was sensory, but it also didn’t take long (at 2 or 3) for me to pick up that she was dressing me in fancy little dresses and bonnets and I wanted to wear pants and baseball hats like my little boy friends. The dress fights continued for most of my childhood until she finally gave in around middle school, which is also when I started shopping for myself (and was willing to wear the occasional skirt or dress, just not the kind my mom liked).
Wow I could have written this.
I feel like this has changed a lot over the years.
10-year-old girl: Cares about being comfy, has definite color preferences, cares somewhat about trends and fitting in but not overly so. Doesn’t care much about brands yet.
15-year-old boy: Wants to be comfy. Period, the end. Wears athletic shorts and t-shirts from school activities and camps every single day, except when we go to church. Is brand agnostic for everyday clothes but likes “nice” stuff from American Eagle.
I didn’t answer the second part of the question! I do care about quality to an extent. I care that my kids are wearing clean clothes that are appropriate for the occasion. I don’t buy anything that feels too mature or revealing for my 10-year-old (thankfully, she hasn’t pushed back much and doesn’t seem to be drawn to those things yet) and too snarky for my 15-year-old to wear in public. Otherwise, I give them a lot of leeway to decide.
Around age 9-10. Want to be comfy but also want ‘cool’ clothes. For boys at that age it means sports team jerseys/zip ups, Under Armour, Nike, Converse, Birks/Crocs, sometimes Zoo York. The days of cute JCrew outfits go too quickly unfortunately.
My teenage boy has a dress code for school so we follow that and I pay up for softer shirts/pants due to sensory issues. Otherwise almost all of his requests are sensory related (soft swishy athletic shorts vs. cotton ones, wicking tops, socks with no toe seams, no fabric labels in pants/undies, etc.).
We do require appropriate clothing for the situation but will be flexible (opting for chinos/button down but skipping a jacket/tie unless it is required by the venue or a very formal event).
My son is 13. He wants to be comfy and wears whatever is on top in his dresser. I think he is also interested in blending in, so if asked to express a preference on colors, etc. he will pick traditionally masculine colors. When he was in preschool, he was more interested in specific graphic tees and liked wearing more girly clothes. He also currently insists on wearing a hoody or jacket every day, despite the fact that it is 85 degrees and humid. In the last 2 weeks he has started wearing the hood up too. No idea what this is about. He has no brand loyalty really, but does wear crocs every day year-round.
For the second question, I’m mostly concerned with value – I buy fairly inexpensive stuff because he outgrows things quickly and is pretty hard on his clothes, and we don’t have another kid to pass things down to. I do try to get decent quality winter outerwear as we live somewhere that gets cold. I feel a little guilty that I let him wear things that are worn or have holes/stains sometimes, but we live in a pretty mixed income NYC neighborhood, and the kids at his school have a wide range of looks.
Someone mentioned the Citron silk blouses yesterday. I just took a look – are these type of blouses still in? Kimono tops and flowy printed blouses? I have some similar Anthropologie tops that I have listed on Poshmark but maybe I can still find a way to wear.
No. They aren’t. At least what I just googled.
How do Pumas run? Looking at the Speedcat ballet flat sneaker.
Slightly small.
Small short or small narrow? Maybe both?
I haven’t tried those in years, but my memory is small and narrow.
Narrow, small, and not much room in the toe box. I wore the heck out of those in the early 2000’s as my commuting shoes. I guess the 90s/aughts fashion is well and truly back.
God I had a pair of PUMA ballet flats I adored. I don’t love these specific styles but hope they bring back more options.
Does anyone have a bag from Bidinis bags? I have a weakness for bamboo handles. And they are not too pricey. I saw a credit for a bag Princess Caroline of Monaco was wearing and unlike the Gucci ones is in my budget.
We have a toaster oven I love and we use all the time for toast/ bagels, frozen stuff (esp the kids), homemade English muffin pizzas, and even for family meals when I don’t want to heat the house with the oven. But it is dying. Husband wants a toaster so I am thinking about an air fryer now to fill the gap. I know I can’t bake brownies in it, but any suggestions? Which modest footprint air fryer? Or Should I just get another toaster oven? We don’t have a ton of counter space, and toaster would be in a cabinet when not in use.
An air fryer doesn’t serve the same function as a toaster oven. I had to live without a toaster oven for a few years (tiny kitchen, studio apartment) and now that I own one again I would never give it up. Reheating leftovers, making frozen food, toasting a sandwich, etc can’t be done in a regular toaster or air fryer.
Yes, this is what my practical side is thinking. But people seem to love their air fryers!
I love my air fryer, and you can absolutely toast a sandwich? You can toast anything in like 20 seconds, whereas my memory of my toaster oven is that everything took FOREVER.
One of the best functions of an air fryer is reheating leftovers!
air fryer is great if you make a lot of fries, nuggets, etc from frozen, and pretty much worthless for everything else. We use our toaster oven 100x more often. I think air fryers were just a trendy gift for a few years, so people sung their praises, and then quietly forgot them. We did use ours to make homemade tortilla chips for a while, but those work just as well in an oven.
I do chicken thighs and chicken wings in the air fryer. I add in onions and peppers during the last 20 minutes and it’s perfect. They aren’t a trend. They are a godsend.
I disagree. An air fryer is just a small convection oven. Anything you make in a convection oven can be made in an air fryer. I use mine for all kinds of cooking tasks, especially when it’s something smaller and I don’t want to preheat the entire oven for it. It’s much more efficient.
my air fryer has a toaster.
I have a toaster oven with an air fryer function. It doesn’t seem as efficient as my friends’ actual air fryers but it works so, so well. I turn my oven on far less frequently.
There are combo toaster and toaster oven appliances that aren’t much bigger than a standalone toaster oven.
You can get a toaster oven / air fryer combo. See Wirecutter for reviews.
I am a toaster oven lover, and when mine died last year I replaced it with the cuisenart air fryer toaster oven. I LOVE LOVE LOVE IT.
It does all things I’m used to my toaster oven doing (reheating leftovers, toasting) and is amazing for roasting veggies quickly, and it’s nice to do a small round some something without turning the oven on. I’m not baking baked goods in (it could probably work though, for a small batch item) but chicken nuggets or roasted potatoes are so good and easy in it.
It doesn’t have a much larger footprint than my older toaster oven, but it is taller and takes up more visual space. This is ok in my kitchen (it is my only counter appliance), but YMMV.
Buy it! (And I recommend dawn powerwash to clean the air fryer basket)
Oh yeah! I love making roasted potatoes in my air fryer.
This is the kind of thing I go to Wirecutter for, but I really like my Oster 7-in-1 toaster oven. I use it instead of my gas oven most of the time, but especially in the summer.
Why not get a toaster oven with convection (ie ‘air fry’)
I’d get the breville convection toaster oven/air fryer to serve both needs well.
I have it for the same reasons and love it. My 6 year old can use it.
It’s on a good prime day sale today
Toaster oven. Or, if you really want to save counter space, replace your oven with a double oven range with a small oven on top (like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-30-in-Smooth-surface-4-4-cu-ft-2-2-cu-ft-Steam-cleaning-Double-Oven-Convection-Electric-Range-Stainless-Steel/1002647524). We just go one and I swear it’s life changing. The little oven preheats so amazingly fast and is perfect for heating stuff up (plus you can cook two things at different temperatures).
At what point during the interview process do you ask about the maternity leave policy and how do you bring it up?
I’m currently interviewing and will probably have a baby about a year after starting the new job. If their maternity leave sucks then I would turn down the offer and maybe even stick it out at my stressful job that has tons of paid leave. If this new company is strict about tenure before you’re eligible that might be an issue as well. I realize the timing of this job hunt is unfortunate but it is what it is. Due to my age I don’t have a ton of flexibility with TTC either
After the offer, especially if you’re not even pregnant yet.
+1, especially if you aren’t sure if you will conceive quickly.
You’re running pretty tight with being FMLA covered if you change jobs. Why not have a kid now where you know your coverage and look later?
OP here. My current job can be unpredictable and insanely stressful. It’s taking a toll on me mentally and physically. I can’t imagine being pregnant or having a baby when my schedule varies so much and I get summoned to travel on short notice. It could be fine if I get assigned to easy projects but it’s a gamble- I might get pulled into a project with 14 hour days and heavy travel.
In that case I would just gamble. Is this a large employer? If so, they’re likely to be competitive on leave benefits. If they’re smaller, they’re more likely to enforce a lack of FMLA coverage or have crummier benefits. Agree with the below to ask for comprehensive benefits info and don’t focus on mat leave.
Then you say no to travel. Your OB will give you a note. You will need to disclose your pregnant earlier than you might otherwise want to.
You need to be in town for your appointments. I’d recommend you schedule as many appointments as THE OB’s office will let you, and then plan your work schedule around that. Do not move OB appointments for work travel. If you have a lot of nausea issues then your doctor can give you a note that you can’t travel because motion sickness exacerbates your nausea. And sometime in your second trimester the OB can ground you so travel is off limits.
Can you ask about their insurance coverage, leave policies, and other benefits in your interview? That’s usually something the HR people can easily share with you.
Leave policies aside, compare the insurance plans – I’ve saved easily $5k year going from an old employer with meh insurance to a new employer with the best insurance plan in my industry. babies will require SO much medical care (well care, sick visits, shots, etc.). My HR totally undersold that benefit and it definitely influenced my decision once I saw the cost.
Are you at a large consulting firm? The good benefits with last minute travel and long days stood out to me.
I left my Big 4 consulting job while early in my TTC journey because I was so burned out. It turns out I got pregnant about 6 months into my new job and initially it was a little stressful bc maternity benefits didn’t kick in until I’d been there a year, though it was over a year when I had the baby. The benefits actually improved while I was there from 12 to 16 weeks.
In retrospect, I was so burned out on consulting that I don’t think I could’ve made it another year or two. However, taking a mat leave so early into a new job definitely burned me and basically set any expectations of career growth at this company on fire.
A friend of mine left PWC while she was pregnant for similar burnout reasons but took a job with terrible maternity leave. I really think she could’ve held out at PWC bc firms are reluctant to fire pregnant women and you can find accommodations to not travel late in pregnancy and for the first year.
I think its normal to ask for the benefits brochure when you get an offer, and you can evaluate mat leave at that point. I don’t recommend getting a new job once you’re already pregnant, you may as well ride out your leave at your current company then start searching when you’re ready.
OP here. Yep I’m Big 4. The maternity leave, health insurance, and pay are fantastic. I have a lot of goodwill in my department so if my partners have the power to staff me on a laid back project I think they will. But it depends if there’s an easy project in our pipeline, which is the gamble.
Unfortunately there aren’t any women in my department who have had a baby. Otherwise I would ask what accommodations they received.
So, health insurance is a big thing to think about too. Is there IVF coverage, if you need to go down that road? Is IVF coverage mandated in your state? I spent over $30k out of pocket even with my $20k of IVF coverage. I would’ve been out way more than $50k total (due to negotiated rates) if I hadn’t had coverage.
Since being pregnant then becoming a mom, I’ve gotten better at saying no and silently leaning out. What if you get staffed on a high burn project but just don’t work the long hours? You get “sick” around 6pm and go back to the hotel room (not unlikely in your first trimester)? Or if you’re asked to travel weekly, negotiate it back to every other week? As folks said, you will have doctor’s appointments and they ramp up fast.
Ask for benefits as part of the offer so you can compare apples to apples
I asked as part of my interview process in my current firm. I would’ve been comfortable turning down the job if they had reacted negatively. I’ve been here 10 years and I’m just now pregnant with my first, so you never know how these things will shake out.
But honestly, just ask. If they pull your offer because you asked then it’s not a place you want to work, and certainly not a place you want to have a baby in your first year or so on the job.
After the offer. Dig into the benefits package then.
Does anyone here have cosmetic surgery (especially body)? How did you decide to finally go for it? Did you deal with any angst about playing into beauty standards?
Also interested! I don’t care about the angst/beauty standards, I care more about whether the results will be good, and whether that can really be planned for.
Haven’t had surgery (nothing bothers me that much but I sure would if I was). I have no problem with beauty standards either – life is a lot easier when you’re pretty. If it just takes a little surgery to get there, go for it.
I had rhinoplasty when I was 30, which is about 15 years ago. I had hated my nose since I was a tween and I finally had the money to do it. I am not conventionally attractive at all – pre or post – and so playing into beauty standards never crossed my mind. I just wanted a nose that didn’t have a hump and a curved tip like a witch. I have always been happy I did it. I don’t love my new nose, but I think it fits my face and it’s so much better than the one I was born with.
Ah, I get it, as a fellow hump and curve. Mine is a million percent genetic, and kind of fits my face now that I’m a bit older. But I remember the angst about it when I was younger.
I relate. Basically everyone in my dad’s family, including his 8 siblings, my sibling, and many many cousins, have my grandmother’s nose. That thing has strong genetics.
Somehow, I was the only grandchild who inherited my grandma’s ugly nose (but not her blue eyes or full blond hair). Always disliked it, though, since she passed a few weeks ago, I’ve been looking at it fondly.
I’ve had a facelift and I also had a tummy tuck after major weight loss. In both cases I had extra skin (below my chin and on my belly) that I wanted to get rid of. Yes, I have angst about beauty standards but my mom put me on my first diet at age 9 and at the time I was in my mid 50s and it’s always been easier for me to just accede to the beauty standards than try to fight them.
I will tell you what I tell everybody: Whatever recovery estimate your surgeon gives you should be at least doubled. This stuff (especially the body stuff) is not for the faint of heart.
Oh, and how did I decide to finally go for it? For the facelift, it was after seeing photos of me at a wedding with like four layers of skin under my chin.
For the tummy tuck? This is super random and super specific to me, but… I had left my husband, the divorce was dragging on, I was at loose ends, so I decided the best thing to do with all that time on my hands was to get my tummy tuck!
I have toyed with the idea for many years. I’m currently leaning no, partially because I don’t want to play into beauty standards (which I realize is not something I apply evenly in my life, I spend plenty of time and money on my looks, but surgery is so much more expensive, dangerous and drastic that it gives me a lot of pause). If you want to be dissuaded, Jessica Delfino writes well on the subject; she has a Substack and a column on The American Guardian, Ask Ugly (she is staunchly against it, though, so don’t look it up if you are looking for permission).
Not yet, but will probably get a b00b reduction in a few years. That will be at whatever point my everyday discomfort and pain is higher than my fear of full anaesthesia and months and months of pain and recovery.
Beauty standards will have zero part of my decision. I am fully prepared to talk about the change with any idiot who chooses to comment on the change in my b00b size.
Ok, have we talked about tennis skirts and dresses? I went to Boston last weekend and they were everywhere. It seemed like every woman under 55 was wearing one. Just a Boston thing? I haven’t seen them in my area.
Speaking of my area, no one, and I mean no one, in Boston was wearing Sperry boat shoes. The classic Authentic Originals in tan with the brown sole are my ride or dies. My husband actually made a game over the weekend of trying to spot Sperrys – he found three men over 50. Yikes. Am I horribly out of date or is this a Boston thing?
My Sperrys: https://www.sperry.com/us/en_US/women/authentic-original-boat-shoe-brown/p/13890218
The tennis skirts are popular in my area — more likely to be seen (as one would guess) in the fit, trendy suburbs. Large city in the Great Plains.
I’ve never seen anyone wear boat shoes — I guess some men might? But haven’t seen them on women.
I rarely see women wear this style of shoe. Every once in a while I break out my blush colored Sperrys that look more like loafers than boat shoes. But I don’t feel very stylish in them.
I’m seeing more Cole Haan type sneakers on men.
I haven’t been to Boston except in a work setting in years, but in my SEUS city, tennis attire has been the normal leisure attire for women and girls since before COVID and my guess is that pickleball ramped that up even more.
I play tennis (formerly a lot but now rarely) and used to feel that I owned a crazy amount of tennis attire, but now I don’t.
Tennis skirts were HUGE on rush-tok last year and I would bet they’ll be big this year too.
Tennis skirts and dresses generally have pockets for balls. These work conveniently for cell phones when you are running around on the weekend.
Yeah, those shoes are not current.
I’m dying at the idea that anyone would think they are in style.
Some fashion blogs have been claiming they are.
They’re a classic shoe. No one thinks they are “current.” Timeless is the word you are struggling to find.
I still see tennis skirts in the wild, especially in the heat, but they’re more popular on moms/adults vs. teens/20-somethings who are embracing bike shorts. The influencer popular Halara tennis dresses seem to be more of a thing amongst suburban moms on vacation vs. anything I see as weekend wear in my area.
I love and wear Sperrys for my errand running shoes but fully agree that sneakers or mules are more current.
I play tennis and also wear tennis skirts when i’m not playing. I don’t wear shorts so they are my very casual hot day look.
I’m 50 and not skinny not fat.
They’re way cuter than shorts! Love the look.
I think the Sperrys are outdated, sorry.
Is a tennis skirt the same thing as a skort?
No.
I wear my Sperry’s 4-5 days a week. But I don’t really see anyone else wearing them. That said, no one else is wearing shoes that objectively better–I see it as different choices we are all individually making.
Tennis skirts not playing tennis are the worst. I detest them in public.
lol
Your mom’s lol (did I just date myself?)
Good comeback, Towelie!
I live in a city and recently was exposed to a lot of women who live in the suburbs of my city and they all seem to wear tennis attire any time they are not at work or church. I have never seen anyone in city bounds wearing that, though.
The boat shoes are just hitting on the influencers, and Free People has them. They’ll probably be in style in the rest of the country in another year or two. It all depends on what you wear with them though.
+1 I’ve become aware that, because of my age, my whole outfit has to signal “on trend” if I want to use a classic item like this to signal that I understand what’s current.
Are you 12?
I live in an east coast city known for sailing and see those shoes frequently.
Mid-atlantic region here, and people wear them frequently as a casual shoe.
I noticed tennis skirts last summer and just assumed a lot of women were actually on their way to play tennis. These were women in their 40s. To my eyes, the look is a bit too girly for non tennis time.
I have a two week trial coming up and need to get a few new suits. I normally get my suits at Talbots, but they don’t have any standard ones right now. Where would you look? I’m a 16 or 18, and hourglass shaped. Also, am a government worker so can’t afford anything too expensive.
Try Ann Taylor, but also check Poshmark and ebay for Talbots suits in your sizes.
I’d check out Macys, Banana Republic Factory, and Talbots online. You should have enough time to shop/return.
Banana factory has some great ones. They’re called scuba or something like that but are regular fabric.
I have a big event coming up in the fall where I will be going for literally 14+ hours (8am call time to do speaker prep, event itself, then straight to dinner afterwards till at least 9pm). I’m wearing the Fold ‘Veronne’ dress in berry – are these shoes dressy enough? I typically wear Rothys for these long days but I don’t think they’ll look right with the formality of that dress. My female boss will either wear a dress suit or a dress of similar formality/price to mine. Our leaders and other speakers will be in suits for the men and ‘senior’ level suits for the women (Chanel, Etro, Boss), etc.
https://birdies.com/products/womens-heels-goldfinch-15-black-velvet-mesh
I think those shoes are perfect.
For these events, I carry flats in my bag and wear heels to present or anything visible. I just change during the day.
PS – I have these and they’re much cuter and dressier. Also sooo comfortable
https://www.amazon.com/Sam-Edelman-Womens-Ballet-Medium/dp/B0D2PGC5Q2/ref=asc_df_B0D2PGC5Q2
Heels are out, I can’t do anything above 1.5 inches due to knee issues unfortunately. I could swap shoes though, so that’s a fair point.
Would any of the SAS or ara dress shoes/pumps work?
https://www.sasshoes.com/womens-dress/
https://ara-shoes.net/collections/womens-dress-shoes
With the clear mesh and velvet, these read to me more like wedding or special event shoes than business/professional shoes.
I have to agree. This feels very grandmother of the groom at a wedding vs a work event where you are the speaker. Velvet is also a winter material.
Maybe something like a Ferragamo Vara or Varina? Those are classics. Or a pointy toe version (Sarah Flint has some).
I’d go ferragamo with foot issues. Be warned, the Sarah flint flats are the most uncomfortable shoes I have ever put on my feet.
She said it’s a fall event so velvet is fine, those other ones linked above look good. Grandmother of the groom is on point though!
Ha, I have crabby feet/knees so sadly grandma shoes are my lot in life. I swear I would make a killing offering nice looking, dressy, supportive orthotic flats!
I may just bite the bullet on Ferragamos but the ones I’ve tried are ok for my feet but kill my knees due to the lack of support. I’ve had the same experience with the Sarah Flint flats. Returned them after 2 days wear at home!
Velvet isn’t a work fabric though. It’s a party fabric.
Maybe consider M Gemis? I have bad feet and their flats have worked for me. My feet aren’t narrow enough for the Ferragamos. I hear that the Sarah Flint flats are bad but the low block heel perfect heels are really good.
I wear velvet to work all the time and am an EVP. I think it looks nicer than flat leather.
Agree with others that this looks like a party shoe rather than a work shoe. I can think of two avenues that might work for you:
1. Basically a flat version of a basic classic pump. MM LaFleur Rowan is a good exemplar though I can’t speak to their comfort. I think if you go this route you need the shoes to be impeccably cared-for and basically the most basic and pump-esque version of themselves (no visible rubber sole, like many of the Cole Haan options, for example). FWIW, while I like the Farragamo suggestion, I’d not do the Varina here–the flat with bow seems not quite right to me for this, while I think Vara could work stylistically (understood that the heel may not work for you).
2. Some kind of oxford or monk. Whether this works I think will depend a lot on a specific shoe, but I’d start looking at the Office of Angela Scott. Like with the flats, I’d stay far away from visible rubber soles, the sneaker oxford thing, etc.–you want the most basic and formal one there is.
My husband just accepted a job as a civilian contractor on a military base, starting in July. I also found out that I am 6 weeks pregnant, due in March. I know he won’t be eligible for PPL/FMLA until he’s been there 12 months. Does anyone know what that means for his paternity leave?
Also, we live in WA state, which has Paid Family & Medical Leave for parents…except federal employees don’t qualify because they have PPL. If he doesn’t qualify for PPL, can he receive WA PFML? Does anyone know, or know where I could find out? Thank you!
Is he a contractor or a fed? If he’s contractor; they are his employer and that’s what you need to look at. Congratulations!!
If he’s a contractor then he won’t be a “federal employee,” strictly speaking. Maybe there are exceptions, but he will be considered an employee of his company.
Sounds like he’s a contractor and not a fed, correct?
JFC, everything happening in the public sector and people still don’t know the difference between feds and contractors?
Why do people insist on living under rocks?
What is wrong with you
Husband keeps describing the job as being a civilian contractor, but he’s on the GS pay scale and employed directly by DoD afaik. For the purposes of this conversation, let’s assume he’s a fed.
Why doesn’t the reformation have a review section? I’m looking at a sweater close to $200 and I have to just take their word that it’s ok?
People trust reviews on brand websites?
I like reviews because it tells me if something runs short, if the fabric pills quickly, if the color is different than the photo. Stuff like that.
I trust negative reviews actually.
Find the same item at a department store and check the reviews there