Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Magnolia Dress
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This gorgeous dress from Hobbs London comes in one of my favorite hues for the fall season. Some folks have strong opinions on wearing pink to the office, but I think this darker berry color should be pretty uncontroversial.
Pair it with your favorite heels this summer, and add some tights and boots once the cooler weather comes.
The dress is on sale for $230 (marked down from $335) at Bloomingdale’s and comes in sizes 2-16.
Sales of note for 8/1/25
- Nordstrom – The Anniversary Sale is open for everyone — here's our roundup! (ends 8/3)
- Ann Taylor – 50% off wear-now styles + $50 off dresses and shoes + extra 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – Up to 60% off plus extra 10% off sale — final reductions
- Eloquii – $19+ select styles + extra 45% off all sale
- Evereve – Sale on sale (thru Sunday)
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off summer styles + extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew Factory – 60% off everything and extra 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – 25% off all previous flash sale items! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Rothy's – Final Few: up to 50% off
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – 40% off one item + 25% off your entire purchase + extra 50% markdowns on top of that
Is there a better alternative to dry cleaning for blazers? I typically wear a layer underneath and then steam clean them after wearing, and I have never noticed any odor. This summer I am embarrassed to admit that while steaming I noticed the armpit area smells less than fresh in a couple of them with poly linings. I don’t want to stink! But I am worried about dry cleaning as these are linen blazers and I don’t want them to come back with that shiny, crunchy look that I’ve had happen with the dry cleaners in the past.
Spot check first, but I use gentle detergent (or even plain old hand soap) and a washcloth for a lot of things like this.
Yeah, I do this to, and then sometimes send the blazer to the dry cleaner afterwards. I feel the dry cleaner does not get bad smells out and like to actually wash with soap. Although honestly, sometimes even that does not work, and neither does vodka or any of the other tricks. I sometimes wear my blazers without sleeves and am otherwise pretty hard on them.
I understand wanting to skip some cleanings, but did you intend to never have these cleaned?
If so, buy washable blazers. Never cleaning something that you wear regularly is gross.
Well thanks for making me feel disgusting. I don’t regularly wear these blazers. Maybe once or twice a year, and only in the air conditioned office. So yes, I thought with antiperspirant, an under layer, and a thorough steaming that would keep them relatively serviceable. Every blazer I’ve taken to the cleaners has come back shiny and I hate that look.
Can you try hand washing them in cold water, drying flat and then pressing at home?
Once perspiration gets into natural fibers, the fibers start to break down. Steaming won’t remove the perspiration.
I know there are garments like bejeweled evening gowns that can never be washed or dry cleaned, but those are for special occasions and aren’t being worn multiple times, generally.
Can you spot check an enzyme cleaner (I use Kids’n’Pets though it does have a temporary light scent) to see if it can neutralize the odor?
Have you already sprayed vodka?
Vodka was going to be my next step if no one here had any better ideas. If they need to be dry cleaned so be it, I would just like to know how people are doing it without getting shiny blazers. Is there something specific to ask for? And how many wears do people generally go between cleanings? I am a very clean person in general so I am surprised that I’m so off base on this.
OP – maybe you can ask your dry cleaner to clean only, and not “press” – the pressing is what compresses the fabric so badly and causes shine, I think.
FWIW, I send my jackets to the cleaners a minimum of 1x per year if I wore it at all (don’t want to store for off season dirty). Anything incremental is if it’s been in heavy rotation and tired.
Can you try a new dry cleaner? I’ve never had this problem at my cleaners and I send them plenty of linen to press.
I have tried several. Issues at all of them.
Try a different dry cleaner. I have never had any linen come back “shiny” Thats so odd. For sure tell them no starch. Maybe thats the problem.
Good to know! I will try this on an older one that I am not sure I want to keep anyway.
If I recall, Cheryl Mendelson talks about how what you can get away with cleaning yourself somewhere in Home Comforts, if that’s a book you can easily access (it’s a great book in general).
I don’t think lined linen blazers are likely to be washable unless it’s just spot cleaning; maybe the more relevant tip in today’s world is how to find a good dry cleaner.
Yes would love tips on that. I haven’t taken anything since they ruined one of my favorite blazers of all time. And this was a highly rated cleaner in an affluent area.
Charlottesville has no good dry cleaners…but….Rudy’s is wayy better than Brown’s. Any other recommendations in C’ville, or within 15 miles…
IME, dry cleaning doesn’t remove armpit stink in the polyester lining. I’ve tried vodka, but hypochlorous acid spray works even better (spot test first). I use enough to get the armpit area damp, and then turn inside out and hang outside.
Like OP, I steam my blazers after each wear. When it gets visibly dirty or a stain I’ll take it in, but dropping off/picking up dry cleaning in my small city is a PITA.
Dryel! At home dry cleaning. You put the clothes in a bag with sheet of cleaning solution, and put in the dryer.
I have actually machine washed a couple of my linen blazers.
They are a linen/cotton blend outer, and polyester lining, and poly linings always end up stinking!
I do wear sweat shields in some blazers, and those help a lot, but I decided to give the machine a go for linen. Vodka is great for wool and natural fibers, but does very little for polyester.
I have a European front loader, and have washed the blazer turned inside out and then like you’d fold for a suitcase, in a big mesh bag. Single item in the machine, silk setting (800 spin, 30 C heat, regular detergent). After the wash, I shake it out, hang to dry on a proper blazer hanger (for shape), and hand shape lapels and details, steam when half dry. This does add to the wear and tear, but since the alternative is not wearing it (hate dry cleaning), that’s fine.
You’d have to have a look at the details and fabrics to know whether you want to try machine wash (if you have a least favourite one?), some fabrics do shrink and if they haven’t been pre-shrunk at the manufacturer’s, your garment may be ruined. The same for colourfastness.
Find a new dry cleaner. My blazers have not once come back to me shiny. Something is going awry.
I just recently bought these disposable pads you can put in the armpit of your blazers for exactly this (they kind of look like maxi pads). I plan to use them every time I wear a blazer.
I had posted last week about it taking a long time for my husband to hear back after a second-round job interview. It’s been two weeks since that interview and he logged into the company site to check his application status. Unfortunately it was marked as rejected. I guess their ATS doesn’t automatically send rejection emails. It’s a bummer but at least we know what happened.
I am so sorry. Job hunting is the worse. Hoping the right thing comes along very soon.
Thank you! Luckily he is job searching while still employed, but it can still be tough.
My colleagues all seem to have gel nails, even the ones that don’t otherwise seem to put a lot of effort into appearance. I don’t want to do that, but I should probably do something more with my very short unkempt nails. What’s the best way to get started at home?
I’d start with one of the multi-sided buffer tools (e.g. Revlon Shape ‘N’ Buff Nail Buffer Block, All-in-One Manicure Tool for Shaping & Shining Natural Fingernails).
I’d go for one professional manicure and then pay more attention to self-maintaining (filing, buffing) if you want to keep your nails natural but more “cared for” looking. Clear polish also goes a long way for adding shine without visible chipping.
The few times I’ve done home manicures, I’ve used Seche Vite base coat and top coat and it’s hugely helpful. Follow the instructions on the package. The harder part is keeping cuticles neat, which is just as important as the nails in looking polished.
Burt’s Bees Lemon Cuticle Cream is incredibly effective for me. I swear that stuff actually heals my jagged cuticles.
This stuff is the GOAT.
Cuticles were a vitamin/mineral issue for me. They always look neat now without me doing anything at all. I think when we have even a very minor deficiency, nails must be last in line!
Dior nail glow — 2 coats gives the perfect “done” look but doesn’t show chips.
Likewise, I love the Kur Londontown nail veil. Lasts much longer than regular polish and makes my nails look great.
It dries quickly too!
I’ll throw my two cents for Londontown’s Kur Illuminating Nail Concealer. I would get my nails done professionally (not gel), but when they start to chip, take the nail polish off and apply this nail concealer.
I do my nails myself but it’s shocking to me (late 20s) how every woman my age seems to have professionally done nails, often with designs.
I live decently frugally but can’t imagine finding the money for 1-2x a month gel manicures!
I see it as such a normal expense for a professional or upper middle class lady. I’m not saying it’s required or important but it’s just so normal to me. I think it’s regional but most women I know had regular manicures by high school. When I went to college I was shocked that my roommate, who was from New Hampshire, considered a professional manicure a special occasion thing. Like she’d had one manicure for prom. We’d go weekly.
I’m old (55) but I know maybe one person who gets regular manicures. Unless someone’s nails are painfully, raggedly bitten or very dirty, I don’t really notice plain nails.
I’m 50 and everyone I know gets regular manicures (and I’m in San Francisco, not exactly Paris). I’m taking a break from gels but still get a weekly regular manicure.
What? Women in SF are getting regular gel manicures? What circles/work space do you run in? Not in my experience.
Finance and law.
Same. I am 63. Have never had a manicure. I was a pianist for awhile and needed short nails, and then just always continued to have short, plain, well-tended-to nails. My friends are outdoorsy like I am, and I can’t think of any who do things to their nails. Live in very large midwestern US city.
As an alternative take: I still consider manicures a special occasion thing. I had one manicure for prom before I went to college and I bet I’ve had a dozen since? I’m 37 and a lawyer. Among my other professional level friends, I’d say maybe 1 in 10 get regular manicures, another 1 in 10 do their own nails, and the rest keep clean, short nails. Most of my friends lean crunchy and liberal, so manicures-as-maintenance read as Emily Gilmore unless they’re getting funky styles or colors that are more like nail art.
100% this is the case. New Englanders are super plain.
In my professional circle we side-eye “done” nails. Not because of the expense, but because it seems juvenile. So this must be regional.
Similar in my circle. Tidy, clean nails with a color are one thing, but anything long or overly sparkly/patterned/etc. makes the wearer seem a bit twee and not serious about their work.
Even if not completely accurate, the correlation is based in reality since every last one of our vapid, problematic colleagues has had very “done” nails.
I also find it shocking that no chip manicures have become the standard, even among women who aren’t making a lot of money. So many of my friends work relatively low paying jobs but have perfect gel manicures 100% of the time. Not to mention the number of waitresses I see with elaborate manicures, lip filler, and botox. Meanwhile I have at-home manicures and thought coloring my hair every six weeks was a splurge.
I think this must be regional, but where I live fancy manicures are more of a thing for lower paying job and roles (though maybe that aligns with public facing to some extent, like the person working the front desk).
Same.
Yes, same in my area.
I always find that shocking, too, both in time and money (and patience! I don’t find going to a salon all that pleasant). Plus gel is such a hassle to remove. I like having painted nails, but I’ve not found anything better for me than just traditional polish. But, to each her own.
Same! I paint my nails and enjoy the process. I really don’t enjoy the nail salon experience, except for the occasional pedicure. The few times I tried gel, it completely wrecked my nails. And having to go to the salon AGAIN to get it removed is just not something I want to make time for.
I could find the money but I don’t find the salon relaxing or a good use of time. I always feel awkward paying another human being to do my nails, especially with a language barrier and awareness that exploitation is rife in the industry.
Same. I’m in the northeast, 30s and have only gotten a manicure for special occasions (like, my engagement and wedding type of special occasions). I will sometimes do my nails myself, but usually they’re plain.
My SIL once called natural nails “blank” and I thought to myself or “natural” would be another term?! Some areas of the country see natural as a bad thing. I am always looked down on by my in-laws for being “plain” but really I just grew up seeing natural as classic, and that being a good thing. My mom always said “less is more” and it stuck.
As an on and off nail biter, I’ve never had the pretty nails of my female colleagues. When I am not biting, I just keep them buffed and use the ORLY nail defense. Its a clear topcoat and it does keep them stronger and from breaking. It has a nice shine and they look tidy
Is it actually gel or do you mean some type of enhancement? I do my own gel nails at home and it just looks like regular polish (I keep my nails short), but it lasts 2 weeks. There are a lot of actually good resources online for natural nail polish and upkeep. I like polish.lab.rat on Instagram. Biggest tips for natural nails would be to push back your cuticles regularly (do not cut as you can easily hurt yourself even if experienced), use cuticle oil daily, file the ends regularly, use a good base and top coat. Seche Vite and OPI are both really good brands/products. I’ve never used the Olive and June system, but I have heard good things.
Their nails look thick and perfectly shaped and smooth. I guess I am just assuming it’s gel. Polish is probably far too advanced and time consuming for the level of effort I am willing to put in, so I will look into some of the products mentioned here to level up.
You might also be seeing acrylic nails.
It’s probably Gel-X/builder gel and you actually can do it at home. Many of my friends do (I’m in NYC). They get it done professionally first and then they learn how to fill at home and just fill and repaint their own nails.
i have a reasonably high end job in NYC and i am one of the few women i work with who don’t keep their nails polished. i have some health concerns about the gel (all that light on your hands) and a regular mani just doesn’t last long enough. I keep my nails even (like when they are longer and one breaks i cut them all) and use hards as hoofs religiously (one in my office and one by my bed) which keeps my cuticles reasonably neat. i highly recommend keeping a clear or almost clear polish on them. i use nailtiques, it’s totally mistake proof and makes them look reasonably cared for.
Warning against Olive & June nail polish remover. I used it several times over the course of one summer and my toe nails have never been the same since. This was over two years ago. It was the pot of remover where you dip your nail in, twist, and rub against the sponge inside to remove color/polish.
I know not everyone will have same experience, but I do want to caution for others.
I also see that everyone seems to have nails done to some level. And while I do many of the other beauty things like botox and frequent haircuts, I won’t do this one. I just don’t want to spend the time or money (at home or in a salon). My nails are short because I prefer short and natural. I don’t think there is anything that looks ungroomed about them – they’re just not done. So if you decide not to start getting into nails, you’re not alone.
Yeah I’m not into nails because I prefer a low-toxin lifestyle and not using nail polish is an easy way to avoid toxins. I look perfectly well groomed.
Good to know! My nails don’t look good. The cuticles are a mess and the nails tear a lot. I may need to look into my vitamins like someone else suggested.
I’ve found the Sally Hanson cuticle remover (which costs something like $5) to be the best bang-for-my buck beauty treatment I’ve ever seen. It made a huge difference to my ragged cuticles.
If your nails tear a lot, they are probably pretty thin. Try a strengthening polish. Orly has a nice one and it goes on clear or with a slight color. Also, you should use a cuticle oil or balm to fix those up. Use something like the Sally Hanson cuticle remover below to keep them pushed back. If you do trim them, be very, very careful. Cuticle nippers are insanely sharp, and you can do more harm than good if you aren’t careful. But I’ve found that just using that remover and pushing back regularly works.
If you stop painting them and regularly clip/file them, they’ll bounce back. When I grow mine they look like french tips because I clip them short every week for sports reasons. They never looked that fantastic until I started doing that.
I like the Nature’s Bounty Hair Skin & Nails multivitamin. It’s often on sale at Costco. My Dermatologist who specializes in hair likes it too, as an affordable alternative to all the pricey hair multivitamins that are not proven to do better.
My nails have been terrible – weak, splitting, tearing. Inherited after 60 from my grandmother. Started taking these vitamins and they are so much improved. Just know that it might takes 4 or 5 months to see a difference.
I’ve used the other products mentioned, but this is my current favorite for a natural but better look. File, use cuticle remover with an orange stick, and then one or two coats of this.
Manicurist Paris “Active Smooth”.
https://us.manucurist.com/products/active-smooth?srsltid=AfmBOopxxHoAs-yAhofB5s-H59_0JxTNXEaTcnENE7e4ybH0OHrueHA8
I don’t get my nails done – I don’t like spending the money and use them too much gardening, crafting, cooking, etc. where they’d get in the way. And I’m fairly young – 34.
Dazzle Dry will approximate the look of gel if you use the ridge filler base coat.
Press on nails are also popular, and many of them look like nice manicures.
I never do my natural nails, but I started press-ons this year. Takes me less than 15 minutes while I’m watching tv, and costs $5 to $20 depending on the brand.
I bought a press on pedicure set and am planning on giving it a try. Anything on my fingers annoys me the whole time it is on, but a lifetime of wearing women’s shoes probably has given me the habit of ignoring my feet more.
I also just started wearing press on nails this year, and for me they have been a game-changer. I am a nail biter/cuticle picker and these have been the only thing that keeps me from doing both (even with a pro manicure, I start at it pretty quick). I’ve been pleasantly surprised with how good they look and how long they last. I’ve been doing the Olive & June ones with the sticky tabs (not glue).
They do take me about 30 minutes to do though, not sure why I’m so slow. It’s not a big deal, I just do it during TV watching as well, but not sure OP is looking to sign on to this weekly.
(I do wonder if this is some of what the other posters are seeing out and about, instead of always the expensive options. I get compliments on them and they truly do look like a salon mani).
I’ve been using dashing diva gel stickers for years. My nails grow too long long before they need to be removed.
I am a lifelong nail biter and ruined every manicure I’ve ever gotten within 10 minutes of leaving the salon (I garden and do home improvement projects). Someone randomly turned me on to Dashing Diva nails and I LOVE THEM. Lily and Fox has better designs, but I can get Dashing Diva to last up to 3 weeks before they are too grown out or the edges come loose. I also can’t bite them. You need to remove carefully. They take 10 minutes to put on too. I use the Gloss without the LED lamp. I’m a convert.
I’m late 30s, C-suite at a tech company and based in Texas. I keep my nails clean and plain. Regular manicures are absolutely not a regular expense for me, and I would say my friends and colleagues are probably more on that side of things too, on average, with a fair bit of variation.
Get a Beetles kit and light off amazon. Some people like press ons.
londontown perfecting nail veil! they’re a lightly tinted polish that makes your nails look more ‘done’ than just a clear topcoat, but sheer enough that it grows out really well/hides chips. I’m in a gel mani phase but those are my go to for every day otherwise.
Help. I hate my entire wardrobe. Most of my clothes are pre baby (well, 4 yo) which means the shapes are all wrong. I am looking to buy 2 dresses (solid color), 1 pair jeans, 1 pair black pants, and 4-5 tops. Budget … all in, $300-400? Business casual is what I am looking for- machine washable or even “dry cleaning sheet” in the dryer at home preferred. I look at websites and all the shapes look wrong to my eye so I don’t buy anything. I live 3 hours from a shopping center, 2 hours from target – online preferred. If you were starting over, what would you get? Links or specifics appreciated – I’m in straight sizes so nearly any store works.
Tell us more about “all the shapes look wrong to my eye.” What do you mean by that. Do you mean they look wrong for your body type, or that you don’t know how to put the shapes together to form outfits? Or that all you see are wide-legged or looser pants, and skinnies/leggings are your thing, so you don’t know how to wear them?
If you want to buy your 8-9 items for $400 or under, that means you’re spending about $45 on each one. So I’d look at Old Navy, Loft, JC Penny, Kohl’s, Banana Republic Factory and Gap Factory.
BUT . . . start by going to Evereve. The prices will be more than your budget unless you score a deal in the clearance section, but look at the outfits themselves. Just scroll around and when you see at outfit that makes you say “I want to look like that,” break down the items in it, and then look for similarly shaped items at the other retailers. (NOTE: you’re looking for an OUTFIT that makes you say, “I want to look like that. I’d feel great wearing that to work.” You’re NOT comparing your body to the model and saying “I want to look like that.”)
ALSO . . . look at what shoes are being shown. You likely need at least one fresh and trendy pair of shoes to make your outfits look current. You can wear plain black trousers with on-trend shoes and look current, or with scuffed, generic, black flats and look frumpy.
This is great advice. Also remember that just because a shape looks “wrong” to you, in reality, it might not look wrong on you, your eye just might need to get used to new styles and shapes, especially if you haven’t bought anything new in a while and your shape has changed.
Agree with this. My size has fluctuated so much with kids that I’ve had to do this several times, and my biggest piece of advice is to buy whole outfits rather than individual pieces. I would also encourage you to think of the specific circumstances you need the outfit for (e.g., going to a casual office, giving a presentation, etc.) rather than just buying random clothes that fit.
Honestly that budget is tight for all of that. $400 for about 10 items is not enough to get any quality items. Is there any way you can take a trip to the local town and try in person? I would get one dress, one great pair of pants, 2 cute blouses. Do you own great shoes? Accessories make a big difference.
If I had to start over again I would find a couple of people on LTK that were basically my shape and my age and follow them for a few weeks to see what they were showing, then order from their links. What shape are you? I might be able to suggest a few. I think J Crew Factory, BR and Gap are going to be your best bets for the price line. For pants what about the JCF Remy pants? They seem like pretty basic office pants.
For pants, look at Talbots for high quality basics. On sale you can get them for $50 – 60 and then you can get more up to date tops or dresses elsewhere.
Check out Jo-Lynne Shane’s blog. She isn’t writing for office appropriate outfits, but I think a lot of what she features would work at a business casual office. Look at her outfits and see if how she styles clothes appeals to you.
I think you would need more than $400 for all of that, unless it’s Old Navy or something like that.
Best advice I have: if you can swing it, take a trip to the shopping center on the Labor Day long weekend (assuming you’re in the States). Shop the sales and try things on in-person to see how they look. That avoids mail order roulette and the feeling of having a lot of items that you don’t like all that much.
I am 8 mo PP and can relate. My first thought is: You don’t have your entire wardrobe. You do probably hate that you can’t wear certain pieces the way you used to–however, I bet you can repurpose some items and love them again! Sit down in your closet and think creatively about your wardrobe. What can you pair together you never did before? What can you wear open, tied around your waist on weekends, or under a layering piece? Starting over produces a lot of waste that impacts our planet, and often causes us to spend unnecessarily. It is hard to do in the PP phase, but thinking this way has been so, so helpful for me.
I’d budget closer to 600 and I’d go to nordstroms and get a personal shopper. If everything looks wrong, then having someone to help could be really useful.
I can tell you hate to shop. Thank your stars you are a straight size–I’m 5’0″ and not slim. I recommend J Jill Wearever clothes for workwear. But before you order, you might want to get mentally ready to return stuff. I recommend you have on hand a tape measure (for before you order), a roll of clear packing tape (most stuff can be returned in the package it came in if you open carefully), and a printer for return labels. Companies will send you an email that shows your order number. You’ll need that number to start a return online. Sorry if this sounds patronizing; I mean well.
Debating trying a chemical peel to freshen up my mid-60’s skin. Would be my first one ever. The person who recommended it is not a dermatalogist, and does them in her studio, not a med spa and not under the supervision of a derm. She told me she is extremely conservative in how deep she goes to minimize redness, peeling, etc. I think the “chemical” in the name is making me nervous. Please give me the benefit of your experiences (good or bad) with chemical peels.
Please do not do this unless you work with an actual doctor/PA/nurse. I’ve seen good results from patients at my dermatologist but I would never in a million years do this with an unlicensed practitioner.
If you’re looking for brightening/collagen production as your way of ‘freshening up’ I’d spend the money on a laser, not a peel fwiw.
It doesn’t sound wise. Odds are that it’ll be fine but still… Go to a cosmetic dermatologist and talk about your options. I think a laser might be more effective but it’s always nice to talk to someone who offers different procedures so you have a better idea of the pros and cons of each one. If you still think a peel is the right first step and you trust this provider then go for it but at least you know.
Yeah, I’d go to a med spa for a consult. There are just SO many things you can do now, including lasers as mentioned above, which are more effective for certain things.
It’s your face. Spend the money and go to a cosmetic dermatologist for this.
Ever see a healthcare provider and feel vaguely made fun of the whole time? Not in a haha omg why do you look like that or love like that way. But subtle jabs or I could never . . . . Like I thought healthcare was supposed to be all – we’ve seen it all, nothing you could say will surprise us so please speak openly.
Yeah, I’ve had that happen when I describe my activity level and they see that I’m still fat. So annoying.
I had a visibly underweight doctor lecture me about eating oatmeal because it’s too many carbs. I was at a normal bmi. Doctors can be mean girls.
True. Doctors can be mean girls! That doesn’t mean that oatmeal is good for you.
Unless you’re a special case, oatmeal is good for you — yes?
Oatmeal (without processed stuff and extra sugar in there, the plain stuff) IS good for you, lol
Plain oatmeal is healthy. I love cold overnight oats in milk with craisins mixed in. It’s filling and checks off whole grain, fiber, and Ca vitD.
Did you have diabetes? I got this lecture, too, but I had GD at the time, and she wasn’t wrong!
Absolutely not. She was goading me into talking about food when I had other concerns.
Food is the most important day to day decision you can make.
+1 – there is virtually no chronic medical issue where at least a short discussion of food isn’t relevant. If you were there for pink eye, yeah, probably unnecessary.
I mean, that does have to do with more than just weight.
Holly s, I think this is a you problem. You’re also one of the posters below who interpreted a question about unhealthy lifestyle as gloating when someone dies. I think you may have a tendency to take things a little out of context.
Ah, we are teaching yet another woman the danger of using an actual handle, I see!
I was horrified by that suggestion actually. I was a little taken aback that the op wasn’t. And I’m not sure what context I need to add. She told me that eating oatmeal, even in the context of an otherwise healthy diet with appropriate calories and moderate carbs was not ok. I don’t think that’s standard medical advice. She was visibly underweight and to the OPs point I do think she probably likes to criticize her patients.
What did they actually say?
I know I’ve been surprised before by providers who just don’t want to hear about anything gross (even when I introduce a topic sensitively; I don’t want to talk about gross stuff either and don’t launch right into it). I’m old enough to remember when doctors were unflappably clinical, but I think there’s been a more recent emphasis on connecting with patients and relying more on plain English, and maybe that comes with a little more personality.
If it felt more like hostility than personality, I usually take that as a message that the provider is hoping I won’t be back.
I have not had that happen, but I would expressly WANT my doctor to be like the last sentence and would not return if they made me feel the way you are describing.
No, but if this happened, I’d find a new provider unless they were so good I could write off the bedside manner.
On the flip side, if I thought it was happening all the time with multiple providers and other people, I’d work on my own side of things.
yes – my PCP it turns out was only pleasant when you were there for a well visit with no “issues.” When I turned up with unexplained pain in the bladder area, her first line of questioning was as if she assumed I was in search of opioids. As it turned out to be a kidney stone, I switched docs.
I had an older male doctor raise his voice and lecture me when I asked him to consider prescribing Mounjaro or Wegovy. I got yelled at that I needed to just eat less and move more, when my labs indicated that I was very clearly in insulin resistant territory. I had told him that I had tried exercise combined with a calorie deficit diet (severely restricted calories because I am short and old). I had pointed out my labs, and also the fact that I was post menopausal. He was a complete jackass.
That sucks I’m sorry. I feel like actually raising his voice at you is way beyond subtle digs we’re describing. Completely inappropriate.
I’m sorry you experienced this. You’d think that doctors would be happy that they finally have something more effective to offer patients than lifestyle changes that already weren’t enough!
Thanks y’all. He is no longer my doctor. It ended up in a heated argument with me countering his every point:
-You just need to eat less. I am insulin resistant, and a severely calorie restricted diet is not sustainable and is resulting in the loss of only maybe one or two pounds a month.
-You would only lose a few pounds and you have a lot to lose. I am watching the people around me melt away, obviously one can lose more than just a few pounds.
-We don’t know the side effects. (1) These drugs have been used for years for diabetics, and (2) if there are different side effects for this different use, I weigh that against the near certainty of health issues arising from significant obesity, some of which I am already beginning to have.
He stomped out at that point and the nurse said “that went about how I expected it to go”. I changed practitioners, and every single other specialist medical provider I see is very supportive of the GLP-1 use and its results.
This honestly sounds a little “and then everybody clapped”.
Do you mean it’s implausible? Because there’s nothing more plausible to me than a nurse making a little comment about a doctor who lose his cool over some bugbear.
Yes, it sounds implausible. OP is this noble smart heroic character and the doctor is a total ogre who ultimately “stomps out” because he is overwhelmed by OP’s superior intellect. I’m sure that this is how OP’s fantasy version of the visit went, but I don’t think this is realistic.
Well, we all have main character syndrome these days.
Honestly you sound very naive. I didn’t see superior intellect or total ogre here, just absolute run of the mill reactionary medical fat phobia. There’s research on this phenomenon; it’s not some subjective fantasy.
Why are people here so rude – maybe you’ve barely been to a doctor? The doctor didn’t sound like was overwhelmed by her superior intellect, rather that he hated fat people and didn’t support the use of weight loss drugs so he ended the appointment. Nobody clapped. Nurses acknowledging that their coworkers are aholes is hardly unusual.
Absolutely this happened. Rereading my comment, I would say it was actually more heated than I suggested in the comment. It was a very old, very crusty male doctor. Sorry you’re such a cynic.
I am not naive, lol. I’ve been online long enough to spot the “I’m a great fat lady oppressed by the system” comments, which are always in this overexaggerated tone (and frankly undermine actual stories of medical neglect/bias). It’s ridiculous.
Oh, and I’m fat, and the reason I’m so familiar with this trope is because it shows up a lot in spaces fat ladies hang out online. You really get the sense that they’re playing the appointment back in their head in the shower and saying what they wish they’d said. I am not saying medical bias against fat women doesn’t happen; I’m saying it doesn’t happen like this.
I have had this kind of interaction with doctors over other issues not related to fat probably because I wasn’t fat. Bias in medicine absolutely does play out in ridiculously dramatic ways. If you haven’t experienced this, maybe it seems silly to you. It certainly seemed silly to me when I witnessed it firsthand.
Again, I don’t doubt bias in medicine happens. I think OP has constructed a heroic victim + villainous doctor narrative that is inherently unrealistic.
Okay. I think you are projecting a lot. It is kind of villainous to discriminate against patients (is it not?). OP doesn’t sound particularly heroic in this anecdote either. The imbalanced power dynamic in medicine isn’t a matter of opinion or narratives. It is not just realistic but factual.
Ok! You can believe her and I can think she’s full of it. I’m pretty sure I’m right, and you can be pretty sure you’re right!
What makes me ragey are all the automated messages we get before and after appointments. I have printed them and taken them to the doctor because they contradict what I was told in the appointment. The doctor had never previously taken a look at them. How can you practice like that?
Not made fun of but definitely made to feel less than by an older nurse a few minutes before being sedated as she was like – married, kids – and visibly disappointed when I said no. Benefit of the doubt she just meant it as a connection so I’d be like oh yes my son is 2 and she’d talk about her 2 year old grandson. But way to make someone in a vulnerable position feel like now you’ll watch them less carefully because Brian and Brian Jr aren’t anxiously waiting for her in the waiting room.
I have posted before about asking my GYN for Gardasil and STD testing at 45. Since it wasn’t covered by insurance, and so I needed an estimate (it was a lot!), a lot of staff had to get involved and it started a loud whisper campaign across the entire office and a lot of staring and awkward interactions combined with multiple suggestions that surely I did not actually want what I was asking for.
I got the HPV vaccine at the pharmacy at age 45, no questions asked.
Good! There is no reason older generations should not get this protection. I am trying to convince my BF to do the same (even though I think I want to be his one and only).
I had that happen at an eye doctor once. I think she was annoyed because she was busy with end of the year paperwork. She made some weird jabs about how it must be nice to be able to take off in the middle of a workday to go to the eye doctor (which surely most of her patients were doing??) and told me I had squinty eyes and to stop squinting. Then she questioned me about why I even needed glasses because I had a low prescription (like a -1) after Lasik. It was strange.
I haven’t been made fun of, but I have definitely been to providers who are dismissive and judgy. I routinely ask for an annual HIV/STD test. I am not in a monogamous relationship even though I do have a longterm sexual partner. One gynecologist had a reaction to that and I have never been back. I don’t know why anyone would judge someone taking their sexual health seriously but people do. There are also doctors who are dismissive about women’s libidos/painful sex. It’s a shame they continue to practice.
That’s so funny because my experience has been the opposite–doctors assume everyone is promiscuous and don’t believe people who say they aren’t.
Yes. I tried to discuss anxiety with my GP and he just said kind of rolled his eyes and said “Not my area.” No referrals to another type of provider, supplements or vitamins to try. Zilch. I felt embarrassed to even have brought it up. I think we forget that we pay the doctor for a service. We are the customer. So often I feel like the doctor is the judge and I am the defendant.
I’m sorry you experienced that. I truly believe everyone deserves a doctor they have a good relationship with. Some doctors are just jerks. Sometimes the chemistry is just off and it’s not a great fit. Sometimes it’s a bad day and a miss in an otherwise good doctor-patient relationship.
FWIW, it is completely valid to tell a medical practitioner to “F off” and walk out if this happens. I feel like too many people tolerate nasty behavior like this just because someone has an MD.
It’s not just because they have a MD. It’s because they can go write a chart note that characterizes our bad behavior in ways that can impede future healthcare access. You do not want a chart note saying that you’re combative or non-compliant.
Or worse – “anxious”.
lol, it is not valid to tell ANYONE to “F off”.
I assumed that was metaphorical, but yes it’s not valid to cuss out a professional if that was meant literally.
Definitely not metaphorical. Have you read some of these examples? That behavior is unacceptable under any circumstances–from a doctor, or from anyone. Also, you can petition to have your records changed for accuracy, to the extent that is happening to anyone. Has never been an issue for me.
And FWIW, I’m an attorney who deals with medical-based claims daily. I don’t share any of your concerns about the records. I promise you, your records say all kinds of crap that isn’t accurate, and few people care what they say at all.
Yes, yes, what the world needs is less civility.
If I were an attorney, I might have fewer concerns about what goes into my records.
As it is, I’ll continue to listen to medical professionals about how detrimental certain kinds of comments in medical charts can be.
Right. It’s not exactly easy to get an appointment with your established doctor now. And they can write things in your chart that will follow you forever. It’s not fair, but I play nice and am very vague about what I share.
Yes. I honestly have so many bad experiences and I’m just fed up. Like. Why are you telling me your lab doesn’t open until 8:30? I was literally there 4 days ago at 8.
I had that happen with an allergologist.
I had two scary bouts of what I self-diagnosed as exercise-induced anaphylaxis, and was looking for details about this condition and how to manage it.
I have had other allergies and allergic asthma for decades, and was thorough in the intake conversation with the doctor, describing symptoms, medicines, and how I manage my allergies. I used some medical terminology like “anaphylaxis” and generic names of medicines instead of brands, and shared my suspicion of what this new and scary thing I was experiencing might be, asking for his opinion.
This 50-ish male doctor asked whether my background is in science and I confirmed that I have a PhD in bioscience, but said that I am neither a doctor nor an immunology expert, I just try to educate myself.
He said “oh, I see you’re a doctor then and must know all the immune processes, like XYZ cells secreting ABC”, and then proceeded to throw complex language at me. Dude – I just told you I’m not an expert in this field, why are you trying to assert your dominance like that?
He then said he doesn’t know what caused my condition or how I can safely exercise without triggering more attacks, prescribed an epipen and said his practice can make me an offer for a desensitization therapy regimen that I would have to basically keep doing every season to keep allergies in check. It would only cost a couple of 1000s annually. Ha.
The icing on the cake was a comment in the patient record afterwards, stating “patient was talkative”. WTF – YOU asked for my allergy history since childhood!
Needless to say, I have not been back.
So he heard that you had a science PhD and tried to connect with you on an intellectual level, and you got offended. Then he prescribed you an EpiPen (which is great!) and offered you access to what sounds like pretty routine allergy preventative care (which usually isn’t covered by insurance – sucks, but also completely par for the course), and that was also offensive to you. He acknowledged the limits of the field instead of cooking up a cockamamie diagnosis, and you didn’t like that. And when he noted in the record that you were communicative (when he probably sees lots of patients who aren’t, due to language or disability barriers), you didn’t like that, either.
I agree with this poster. Science PhD, it is interesting how we can all read things differently.
“talkative” isn’t a bad thing to have written about you in your record.
Interesting read of the situation, I admit.
I think what was probably missing from my description of the situation is that the tone he was using was at the same time condescending and mocking. He said several times: “You probably know this better than me…” and when I interjected saying “actually I don’t, since I’m not an MD, that’s why I’m here”, he continued bombarding me with lingo. When I asked about his opinion about the cause of my anaphylaxis, he just shrugged.
I agree the epipen was a good call. Re: desensitization, I have already undergone several rounds of desensitization at various times in my life, with little success – which was all part of the history he took. So to suggest that felt to me like an attempt to upsell services that I already know won’t help – especially not with exercise-induced anaphylaxis!
In a way, I felt that my concern wasn’t really heard, instead, he focused on other things that had no impact on why I was there in the first place.
But I will reflect on this a bit. It was a very scary situation at the time, so maybe I was looking more for compassion, and the bioscience angle didn’t really help establish the connection I was seeking.
This is why being a physician in this day and age is a thankless and frankly impossible job. You can’t please anyone.
This comment is talkative, lol. That’s not a bad thing, nor is the doctor’s note, I don’t think.
Yep! So I changed providers! Some doctors are jerks!
Does anyone use Shipt for local grocery delivery ? I like that it has more options for stores than other places, but wasn’t sure if the prices are inflated on it.
I think the prices are inflated on all of those services.
Sounds good, back to Walmart+ delivery then!
Shipt keeps the same price listed on the app week to week– so you do not get the benefit of sale prices. Shipt was either the first or one of the first of the grocery delivery services. Originally, they partnered with Publix only in the SEUS. They have since been bought by Target.
I used Shipt for a really long time because I knew people that worked there (prior to Target sale) but eventually got frustrated because the app wasn’t updated with in stock items as well as other grocery apps, and you actually had to be home to receive your groceries.
It will tell you on the app whether there is a markup for each store. I order all our groceries from Target via shipt (on the Target app) and there is no markup.
I’ve been using Shipt for all of our groceries for 5+ years. They do reflect sale prices and tell you what’s on sale that week. (The variation in the responses above might be dependent on how well the store communicates that info to Shipt – I use Shipt for our local grocery store, Meijer, which works well with Shipt.)
This is a frivolous question, but…we are leaving this week on a beach vacation to a Caribbean island with our elementary age kids. First time since I was a child (so never done the planning). Do I pack sunscreen here and bring it, or buy it there? All our prior beach vacations have been house rentals with a grocery store trip on the first day so I’ve never had to think about this before.
I found it difficult to identify reef safe sunscreen at home, but on Hawaii they are clearly labeled that way, so I got it there. Not sure if this is applicable in your case but that was my reason to get it at the destination.
My family has sensitive skin and strong preferences for sunblock so I’ve always packed it myself (in a ziploc, with that ziplock inside another plastic bag in case of leaks). You can of course buy it there but it’ll easily be a 30% markup over your local pharmacy.
Most of them, especially if it’s an island with multiple nonstops from the US, will have a selection of basic sunscreens there, SPF 30-45. If you want anything in particular, BYO. It will most definitely be less expensive at home, but if you wouldn’t otherwise check a bag and you have to pay for the bag, you’ll probably come out ahead buying on-island.
Oh adding, if you are staying at a resort and don’t plan to leave it, definitely BYO. Azn prices < US grocery store prices < island grocery store prices <<<<<< island resort shop prices.
Sunscreen is definitely not something I’d buy from Amazon.
+1 way too many fakes out there.
Agreed. I don’t buy any personal care items or infant formula from Amazon and never will.
One time I bought sunscreen from Amazon and noticed the bottle looked off compared to the one I’d recently bought in person. It was either counterfeit or they were selling me something that had been sitting around their warehouse for several years. Never again.
*shrug* the Coppertone I have on subscribe & save has prevented me from burning all summer, and I definitely otherwise would have!
Though I’m not totally blase – I would not purchase medication or other more sensitive personal care products there. I have just had a perfectly fine experience with standard bottles of sunscreen!
PSA that fake or expired sunscreen that’s not safe to rely on may still prevent burning. This is why FDA has so many warnings about sunscreen that isn’t broad spectrum.
I have never once had an issue with personal care items from Amazon. Just buy their own and not from a third party seller.
The issue with sunscreen is that it’s hard to know when you were sent a fake. As someone else said, it can prevent burning (UVB rays) without providing broad spectrum protection. Or it can provide some SPF but not the number stated on the bottle. My understanding is that this is pretty common with sunscreen fakes – they’re not totally useless but don’t provide the stated protection. I wouldn’t worry about buying something like deodorant on Azon, because if it doesn’t work you or someone close to you will notice.
We’ve always packed it ourselves. These days we use fancy European sunscreens that aren’t widely available, but even back when we we used regular old Neutrogena or Banana Boat we still brought it with us. You’ll pay a huge premium to buy sunscreen in a tropical place.
We almost never check bags, but we just pack many of the 100 mL carry-on safe bottles. I wear rash guards and require my kids to do the same, which really cuts down on the exposed skin that needs to be sunscreened.
I always bring my own sunscreen because it can be a lot more expensive there. ThinkSport is a reef safe brand if you are interested in that. I found it at my local grocery store.
I would pack my own unless, like the other poster mentioned, you were going somewhere with specific guidelines. Australia is also a place I would buy the sunscreen there. But I don’t know that there are any concerns about the Caribbean.
Costco – the brand is called vacation and it’s reef safe. It’s $20 for two 6oz bottles. It’s really good for sensitive skin and kids.
I tried blue lizard and it was extremely unpopular with my kids. I’d never buy suncream on an island. You have no idea how old it is and if it’s been left out in the sun.
Are some people just impervious to the effects of an unhealthy lifestyle? My SIL is mid 40s. Eats pizza 4-5 nights a week, takeout for the rest. Drinks too much, smokes the occasional cigarette, only started exercising about a year ago. And yet…she looks great and has no health problems.
Are some people just lucky? Are we eating vegetables and working out for nothing?
I don’t think you would normally except an unhealthy lifestyle to catch up with you in your mid-40s except maybe some moderate weight gain? And smoking helps you stay thin. The real issues will likely appear when she’s 60+.
But yes, there is an element of randomness to it. My 77 year old dad is obese and has never eaten a vegetable and has outlived most of my close friends’ much fitter fathers.
To this point – my skinny ‘healthy’ boomer mom has had a whole host of broken bones once she hit 60. All those years of surviving on black coffee, bran cereal, skim/diet/fat-free everything were terrible for her bone health and launched her into early onset osteoperosis. I’d rather hang onto some weight in my 50s/60s vs. recover from yet another serious fracture from a minor fall.
Yes, I was just discussing this with my 70 something mom who is very thin — she’s not diet-obsessed, just naturally thin and moreso as she gets elderly — and I told her studies show that overweight (not obese, just overweight) women actually have better health outcomes post-menopause than “ideal” weight women. She was not happy to hear it, but older women do better health-wise a little bit plump.
I’m experiencing the same thing with my skinny 69-year-old mom. All was well, until it wasn’t.
A lot of osteoporosis is hormone related, and genetics. Maybe your mom may have been calcium and vitamin D deficient for years despite her attempts to have a healthy diet, and that could have contributed to osteoporosis.
It is true that women who have more fat (adipose tissue) make more estrogen in that fat that persists into older ages/menopause. Estrogen has bone protective effects, but it is not universal that heavier women have less osteoporosis.
Yup, genes and underlying conditions make a huge difference. It stinks when you’re doing everything ‘right’ and you have serious health issues or weight problems to contend with.
As much as it sucks you just need to run your own race and do what is best for your body/lifestyle. If she’s annoying/sanctimonious about how dieting isn’t worth it, etc. you have my permission to ignore her.
yup, comparison is the thief of joy, and it goes both ways! Feeling like others have it easier makes you feel bad. Looking down on others for what you think are poor choices is also bad for the relationship.
I try to focus on the immediate payoffs (better sleep, more energy, perhaps better skin) and not worry about the rest.
Yes, until they are not. Grandma was a two pack a day smoker until well into her 70s and otherwise not that healthy. Lived into her late 80s, but the last few years were tough with COPD. Everyone has those examples in their life.
Yes, some people are just lucky, although it may catch up to her at some point.
I know a 50-year-old woman who just died from a heart attack last week. IDK, that seems pretty darn unlucky. You can’t always tell how healthy someone is just by looking at them.
You can never tell how healthy someone is by looking at them – you might be able to make an educated guess, but that’s it. Some national parks were in the news recently about wanting to charge unprepared hikers for the cost of rescues. The articles also discussed how education was needed for hikers setting out to avoid issues. It was so clear that fat, old, and/or adaptive hikers would be singled out at the trailheads and even told to turn around, regardless of how well-prepared they were. Rangers always turn a blind eye to the young, fit 22-year-old men who are most likely to run into disaster because they behave like idiots in the backcountry, whether it’s taunting rattlesnakes or ignoring thunderstorms.
100 percent agree with you. A policy like that definitely targets people who look a certain way.
I agree with you. I was just on safari and they didn’t allow people over 60+ to do the bush walks “for safety” and I thought that was kind of odd and it was more likely 25 year old men trying to take selfies with hippos that would get themselves or others killed.
That’s wild because I just went on a 20 mile bike ride with my uncle (73) and my aunt (75) can lift heavier than I can … and I lift 3x a week.
You’re confusing the rare event – adverse interaction with wildlife – that they don’t care about with the common events – heat stroke and/or heart attack – that they are trying to avoid. They’re not worried about hippos, they’re worried about the 63 year old retired executive on TRT whose heart blips out because he hasn’t hiked a hill in a decade.
It was a flat, super easy walk. I get what you’re saying and can understand having some sort of age limit but 60 is really low. Like 95% of 60 year olds have the fitness for this and those who don’t are so out of shape they probably didn’t have the fitness level at 40 either.
It’s not for nothing but yes, some people will be thin (not fit, but thin) regardless of lifestyle. I’m currently annoyed at a normal weight aunt who has good genetics and who does exercise but always takes ALL the credit herself while denigrating any friends or acquaintances who are fat for “not taking care of themselves.” It’s driving me up a wall because she is obsessed with it.
Yeah, it’s the rare person who can admit when they got lucky in the genetics department. I work out 4-5 days a week, lift weights, eat healthy, all of that. I’m still a size 14. I wear it well because I’m tall-ish, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m a bit overweight. I take care of myself just as well as my BFF who is the same height, same age, and yet weighs 30 pounds less than me.
Yup, same here. I’m at least as fit as my aunt (we play different sports and would probably suck at the other’s), but I weigh at least 40 lbs more than her. I really don’t appreciate her weight focus when I’m postpartum as well. It’s incredibly self righteous and an enormous blind spot in someone who is otherwise lovely.
I’m sorry. If it’s any consolation, it says more about her than you. (And also, she needs to learn how to read the room, sheesh!)
I work out 5-6 days a week, eat well (vegetarian, don’t do chips or soda), and I’m a 43-year old size 4 or 6. Cholesterol great, blood pressure is 95/60, and I can run a 6:20 mile.
One definition of “luck” is what you have when discipline makes a big difference. I’m stupidly fortunate that discipline pays off.
(This is NOT meant to denigrate anyone else. Quite the opposite.)
Size 14 poster above. It is hard to stay disciplined when it doesn’t “show” by traditional measures. I’m glad you’re aware of your good fortune.
I understand what you mean – you’re acknowledging that you’re disciplined AND it’s paying off, but you know there are people who are just as disciplined who don’t see the same result. It’s the “luck is when preparation meets opportunity” situation. You have the luck and the preparation. And it doesn’t mean you don’t deserve kudos for your discipline!
In the Anon at 10:24 am. Thank you for understanding what I meant.
I’m very similar to you, lifelong vegetarian, athletic, slim, but I have high cholesterol. There’s no reason I should have high cholesterol, just bad luck.
Anon at 1049, I get what you mean. Somewhat different situation, but one of the things I have come to appreciate about getting older is that I see the impact of my choices a lot more quickly (e.g., if I drank the night before, I will feel terrible and look not great in the morning) in a way that I didn’t 10 years ago. It’s really hard to make “good” choices that require delaying gratification when you can’t really directly see the fruits of your labor.
Yup. I’ve been skinny/slim my whole life, mostly because I’ve got a whole bunch of inherited diseases which mean I’m frequently dizzy, weak, nauseated or otherwise not hungry enough to eat very much. I ‘look’ healthy but I’m very much not.
One time in a similar conversation here years ago, I said that I got lucky with genes in that my body is thin and conventionally attractive. I was told that I must be stuck up and full of myself. Glad we as a community have evolved past that lol.
Don’t worry, she’ll die eventually and you can feel good about yourself then.
+1
OP here and honestly I feel pretty superior about my healthy lifestyle vs hers. Like really? Cigarettes? Gross. It’s just baffling to me that she looks good. If I drank and ate like she does, I’d be sallow and haggard (and hungover)!
You might want to check your mindset though. If you’re chiming in to pat yourself on the back when folks remark that you’ll gloat upon her death I’m worried your headspace isn’t great.
OP here and I’m chiming in on that comment because it’s pretty absurd. Like yes obviously we will all die but that wasn’t my question?
Ok, but the absurd is not that we all die. The absurd part is that you’d gloat upon her death. Because of course you wouldn’t…right?
Yeah, your question is nasty work. You’re basically sad she’s not sick yet? Gross.
Your attitude is gross. Enjoy being superior with no friends.
Does it serve any purpose to give this other person’s lifestyle this much thought? It just seems…uninteresting, in addition to being kind of weirdly judgy.
Lolol you could easily find out if it’s all just one big lie.
My grandmother smoked, drank, never ate a vegetable except on a crudités platter and lived to 97. She was perfectly healthy until the last 2 years when she suffered from congestive heart failure. My uncle did everything “right” and died of a rare and unpreventable disease at 50. We can all point to that one person on either side of the spectrum.
A healthy lifestyle is like wearing a seatbelt. You might survive an auto accident (or just never get in an accident) without one – but it certainly increases the odds.
I mean yes? And some people die of awful cancers after a short lifetime of healthy living. We eat healthy and workout because we think it helps, not because we’ll otherwise immediately become sick.
Right. It sort of blows my mind how many people think that every issue is preventable with a good diet and exercise. Of course it helps, and it’ll probably make you feel a lot better in the short term, too. But you truly cannot prevent every bad health outcome. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try, but there’s a weird kind of hubris that comes along with “but I take such good care of myself!”
It’s a prosperity gospel thing. People believe that if you are virtuous then good things will come to you, and if you are not virtuous then bad things will happen. Cognitive dissonance ensues when bad things happen to “virtuous” people.
Unfortunately, I haven’t found that to be true. My family members who act like that find it to be a tragedy when a fit person dies young, but when a fat person does, “well that’s what happens when you don’t look after yourself. It’s sad but he just didn’t take care of himself.” There is never any self-reflection.
Alternatively, it’s because statistical probability exists. The probability of being healthy and strong at 70 is much higher if you take care of yourself than if you didn’t.
Wow thanks! I feel like I’m subjected to a lot of this kind of thinking and you articulated it really well. It is kind of a prosperity gospel thing!
Anon at 11:47, I feel like the sentiment you describe exactly fits the prosperity gospel thinking! If the fat person dies young, it’s consistent with the expectations, so they shrug. If the fit person dies young, it violates their expectations so it’s lamented.
Definitely, it still fits, but I meant to say that it doesn’t seem to cause cognitive dissonance.
How interesting. I can see that.
Fran Lebowitz said, “Your bad habits can kill you, but your good habits won’t save you” and I think that’s a pretty fair assessment of this phenomenon.
Some people are also just luckier with genetics. Read any story about the secret to a long life according to 114 year old and you’ll usually get some version of “i always drink red wine or eat steak.” Sometimes it’s not fair. But I also think sometimes you’re not really seeing the full picture — for example, this SIL started exercising a year ago so maybe she’s doing more than OP realizes or has more concerns than she’s letting on?
I have an enviably slim friend who always seemed to just be blessed with a fast metabolism to me for someone who ordered an appetizer and dessert every time we went out to eat until I realized that she never did that in her day to day and treated those meals as “celebrations,” never actually finished her wine or dessert, etc., etc. Same with another friend who seemed to drink a lot except that she actually never drinks EXCEPT for when she is drinking socially out with friends, which at this rate happens 3-4 times a month at most.
Those 114-year-olds also tend to live in places that do not keep accurate demographic records!
No, we’re working out and eating right for our health and aging well. And our ability to do fun things!
I’m mid 30s and this weekend I hiked, lifted, played an hour of competitive soccer, swam in the bay, and I have masters rowing this week. Your MIL can’t enjoy these activities
Yep, this. I can’t do the fun things I want to do if I don’t exercise. I’m still fat and that’s fine. I’m whitewater rafting this week!
Yup, anon at 10:27 here.
I’m overweight (which I do hate but that’s my problem), but on the hike my much “fitter” friend had to ask me to slow down or stop a few times.
The fastest woman on my soccer team is also overweight, and is able to make plays I cannot get to, meanwhile I have better stamina on the field.
Among TDY Active friends, I don’t see a huge correlation between weight and capability, but the key is that were all still able to be very active.
I also feel (physically and mentally) 100% Better when I’m very active.
Life is about playing the odds.
There’s also a huge element of what regrets you want to have. If you’re 60 and in bad health, do you want to regret eating pizza 5 nights a week or would you regret working out 5 days a week?
The way I’m wired, I get a tremendous amount of peace for having *tried.*
Why you gotta be rude?
My 80 year old father still works and is very physically strong and active, but has terrible genes for heart disease and diabetes. As in he had a massive heart attack, nearly died, and I got a call saying I needed to unplug him. That was 20 years ago and while he has a chronic condition that has required regular visits and a couple of surgeries, he is in excellent shape (for example, he loves to lap swim and regularly completes a mile in 35 minutes). He has been exceptionally disciplined with food, exercise, and general health his entire life, and that (with a decent dose of luck) is why I think he was able to weather the storm so well. He has male relatives who passed of a heart attack in their mid 30s. You can’t control anything, but generally at some point making an effort to be healthy will pay off for most people.
See also, the older Richard Hoyt. Doctors said that everything he did with his son saved his own life.
(The Hoyts were a father-son racing duo. The son was paralysed; the father pushed him through marathons in wheelchairs.)
I hadn’t heard of them but just read a couple of articles. What a touching story, thank you for sharing
I think the effects of diet and exercise as health mitigants are greatly overstated. They can make you feel good but most things are in your genes.
I think it’s because diet and/or exercise are relevant to the most common conditions (type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease). People see the difference it makes for a few conditions and extrapolate when it’s usually a lot less relevant.
It is infuriating to watch someone be undisciplined in their personal behavior and not suffer the way they should. Their personal sloth should be physically reflected like a badge for all to see. But life is unfair.
I want to be sure that this is sarcasm, but honestly given the crowd here, I can’t be.
I know. Depressing.
Just rephrasing the original post to be more clear.
Probably 25% of your health is determined by genetics, so yes, some people are lucky to be born with good genes. The flip side of that is that some people are born with unlucky genetics around certain conditions that diet and exercise will have no impact on whatsoever. They have to completely rely on medicine. They might be living longer now purely because of medical advancements.
The problem with the fat/skinny dynamic is that you can’t know someone’s health. I have lost probably 80 lbs since I was a teenager and I have never had bad health markers. No pre-diabetes, no high cholesterol, no high blood pressure. I do have a chronic disease and as medicine has improved the disease is easier to control, but weight has nothing to do with it.
The excessive drinking and smoking would be the biggest concerns. Smoking takes 10 years off your life.
Some people are just lucky – my grandmother who had a cocktail every evening, used real butter, and didn’t exercise lived to be 104.5. She was also skinny her whole life without trying. My teetolater grandmother who was pudgy until her last illness, barely got anything to eat of any nutritional value until the end of the 1930s, and fried everything she could find lived into her 90s.
How formal / stiff are you with your direct reports?
I am not at all formal. I’m firm and respectful and all that, but just also direct and friendly (to an extent). It is just my personality really. Wondering if I should reign that in, although that wouldn’t come naturally.
I’m also not very formal. Professional, yes, but formal? No. That would not feel authentic to me. (In fact, if I’m overly formal with you, that’s a sign that I’m not very comfortable.)
Okay that’s what I meant – I’m professional but not formal.
All of my best managers were this way. I (like to think anyway) am the same way. Professional, approachable, not formal.
Not at all formal. It’s not my personality, and it would also come off very oddly in my work environment.
More warm-friendly-casual but professional, unless warranted. Like if there is a performance issue that does not respond to my normal style, then I dial the formality up a notch.
Extremely informal, on purpose, and I have very high trust on my team because of this. Formality breeds a lack of communication.
Short version: Back from summer vacation and want to change some of my ways. Please give me all your best tip for work life balance.
Longer version: work partly at home and partly outside my home .Think teaching counseling and meetings taking place outside of my home and writing, reading and answering emails at home. Complicated by some teaching and meetings only can be done in the weekend or evening. Mission driven work that I have en strong belief in. But work spills on into the rest of my life and I feel I am never off.
Get an office?
Schedule off time. If you can, make it routine. So maybe 8-9 am you do not do anything having to do with work. Or 6-8 pm. Whatever. This only works if you treat that time like it’s a work think you’re obligated to.
Short version: Back from summer vacation and want to change some of my ways. Please give me all your best tip for work life balance.
Longer version: work partly at home and partly outside my home .Think teaching counseling and meetings taking place outside of my home and writing, reading and answering emails at home. Complicated by some teaching and meetings only can be done in the weekend or evening. Mission driven work that I have en strong belief in. But work spills on into the rest of my life and I feel I am never off.
For the work you do at home, set a schedule for when you do it, and stick to your schedule. Have a “clock in” routine and a “work’s finished, I’m clocking out” routine. As much as you can, do your work in a dedicated area — not the same location you hang out and relax.
If you use one laptop for all your stuff, separate your work off into a separate email address from any of your personal emails (if you have them all mixed up together). Then, if you can, set a profile in your email client (I use Outlook) that only shows you the emails from one account or the other, so you don’t see your work emails at 8pm when you’re checking on the fun newsletter you’ve subscribed to.
Finally, and this is the hardest, start to differentiate yourself from your work role. Mission driven work that we believe in (this is the kind of work I do) is seductive. It can be entwined with our identity, and even become our identity. Start to develop a very strong non-work identity.
this is so spot on. I would never have used the word seductive, but you are so right. Feeling a bit helpless thinking about how to develop a non work identity, I am ashamed to admit it.
I’m early 30s and honestly do something fun almost every day. I feel strongly about making time for hobbies and friends now because (hopefully) in the future I’ll have kids and less time for what I want to do. It requires being intentional though. I let a lot go in favor of doing the activities and social stuff I love.
The biggest thing for me is having a 40 hour a week job with a short commute. Luckily my office is in a fun neighborhood, so I moved to that neighborhood. I live 3 blocks from work. You say you have to do some work on weekends, does that mean you get short days during the week or some sort of comp time? If not, advocate for that. I’m also in a mission based job that I love and while some find it hard to disconnect or say no, I say I’m happy to take something on as long as theres comp time. Mission based work doesnt pay enough to work more than 40 hours regularly without something in return, no matter how passionate we are about the job. I love my job, I do well, and I’ve moved up the ladder. But I don’t give it more than 40 hours a week.
I also have low standards at home and look for short cuts. I prioritized a place with a dishwasher and in unit laundry so I don’t waste time on those chores. I live in a dated apartment but it has what I need and I added a parking spot to be able to travel to hobbies more easily. I get groceries delivered. I leave clean, dry clothing in the dryer for a few days. I rarely vacuum more than what my roomba does. My apartment is clean and organized but I don’t spend more than 30 mins a week cleaning.
I also keep things simple with easy meals that I batch cook. I only cook 1-2x a week and do stuff like rotisserie chicken + bagged salad or a sheet pan chicken + veg + brown rice or chickpea pasta with frozen Turkey meatballs and veg and sauce. Or I make a big pot of soup and freeze leftovers. Or a frozen TJs meal. I mostly wear dresses to work, wear basic makeup, and let my hair air dry. I buy everything (groceries, toiletries, clothing, hobby supplies) online, unless I’m thrifting because that’s a hobby. I’m ruthless about clutter. Basically for home stuff: if it ain’t broke dont fix it and KISS (keep it simple stupid).
I do a 20 minute lift 4 days a week as my main workout then get my cardio in through hobbies (soccer, trail running, rowing, triathlon training). I bought adjustable weights so I don’t have to leave my apartment to lift, but my apartment has a gym when I need more. Having hobbies that are also workouts helps too!
I’m very social, but often combine hobbies with friends: book club with friends, inviting friends over for dinner after a hike, grabbing a beer with a friend after a run or soccer. We also rotate hosting a lot which is low key but fun.
I don’t watch much TV, unless it’s something I actively want to watch (in which case I am probably doing so with friends – I go to my parents’ to watch our NFL game with my extended family or a friend is hosting a movie night). Otherwise I’m usually out and about and when I’m home I’m crafting or reading or something (I relax by doing basic crafting or getting lost in a really good book).
I don’t have kids or pets (though I’d have a cat if it was allowed in my apartment…). I’m dating but not in a relationship and my last relationship was long distance so I was mostly on my own during the week.
I’ve heard that your actions express your priorities so I try to model that in my life. Lots of time with family and friends. Lots of time being active outside. Time to chill out and enjoy hobbies and silence. Enough sleep (8 hours with very, very rare exceptions) and water and balanced meals to keep me going. Just enough time doing “domestic” stuff to ensure I’m eating well enough and have a clean enough apartment.
But it’s great. On Saturday I went hiking and then got dinner with a friend. Yesterday I played soccer and then went to the beach with my cousin and her family. Tonight I’m getting drinks with a friend. Tomorrow is my standing bar trivia night with my girlfriends. Wednesday I have rowing. Thursday I have a date, and Friday I’m going out with a group of friends.
I want to be you when I grow up.
I need to replace a pair of pointy flats in a neutral snakeskin pattern. They are falling apart. The color (shades of taupe/gray/cream) has been incredibly versatile. What’s the 2025 version of this shoe?
I have an older version of this flat in maroon. I did get it on sale (20%) and I hated paying even that much for it but damned if they aren’t the most comfortable shoes I own.
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/augusta-25-flat-snake-embossed-leather/?_gl=1*18v5r03*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAiA8Lu9BhA8EiwAag16b3p0SCxQkNfrHOrqIISpXd2vHCL0eMKJLRazZy4Q4NxZP05FlYppexoCa6cQAvD_BwE
Snake is in again this year, so you should have some good options.
I don’t think pointy flats are completely out. You just need to make sure they work with the silhouette of pants or dress you’re working with. I see a lot of highly square-toed shoes, including mary janes, but I don’t think those work with all work looks. You do you–find a nice pair of shoes in the color you want, and rock ’em!
Would a loafer or mule be formal enough for your office? It looks like there are quite a few out there.
I hear you on the versatility of snakeskin – I have a pair of gray/white snakeskin ankle boots that go with everything.
I think my h and I have come to the conclusion that our marriage is over. We’ve been struggling for most of our years together and I think have finally accepted that we won’t be happy together in the long run. Lots of emotional/mental abuse issues that I have tried to overlook, but realize I don’t want to do this for the next 30 to 4o years.
Question is, how do I navigate this going forward. Already contacting an attorney, but looking for anecdotal information from those that have gone through this before me. We have agreed that I will move. Has anyone done this before the divorce was final? Our youngest is almost 18, so not really any issues with custody, child support, etc.
What things do I need to focus on first?
Thanks for your input!
This really depends on your jurisdiction, so I would talk to an attorney before moving out.
You have a child who is almost 18. I think your biggest issue will be navigating your child’s well-being. In my experience, kids whose parents split the moment they graduate high school struggle a LOT. “My whole childhood was a lie,” or some variant of “It didn’t actually help for you two to stay together for us, the kids.”
From a divorce attorney: Start gathering all of your financial information/documents. Get as many of your paper documents together as you can. Start keeping track of account balances and monitor them to make sure the money is staying where it should and isn’t being withdrawn. Many of my clients do not remain the home together while the divorce is pending, but you need to check with your attorney/jurisdiction about that because some jurisdictions differ on how this is addressed (my jurisdiction doesn’t care and you don’t waiver any rights to the property if you vacate). Decide what is a high priority for you in the divorce. If he has to pay you, how do you want that money? Lump sum? Are you okay with installment payments? Retirement transfer? If you have to pay him, how do you want to pay him? Is keeping your retirement the highest priority? Or is getting a lump sum in cash so you can buy a house for yourself the highest priority? Those are some of the first things I need to know from my clients.
If you can both be civil (and it sounds like yes), it helps to work with a counselor on what you will tell your children and how to make it easier for them. (This is not to suggest you should stay with him for their sakes!) Make a pact that neither of you will ever say a negative word about the other to your children and stick to it. Agree on a narrative. This was 100% the best thing my parents did for me when they split.
Aside from that – talk to an attorney before you move out. Guard your financial position in your divorce. There is a tendency with some women to give up money to avoid a fight. Don’t do it. My sister totally screwed herself over by accepting much less than she was entitled to in terms of her ex’s military benefits and found herself in real financial distress in the long term as a result.
Be realistic about finances, etc. You will be happier without abuse but unrealistic expectations set you up for failure.
i have quite a few friends whose parents got divorced when they left for college. i think it is hard on the kids in a different way than when they still live at home (also not saying you shouldn’t do it, all of my friends whose parents did it ultimately have good relationships with their parents). as a college student/young adult it is comforting to have a “home” and it is strange when that home base changes. if your kids always thought you had a happy marriage, they might struggle to understand it. don’t speak unkindly about the other person, but as your kids head into adulthood and navigate their own relationships, they are likely to compare to their parents. encourage them to seek counseling if needed.
The best advice I got while getting divorced was “if you can replace it for less than it would cost your attorney to fight for it, let it go so you can be done.” My ex ended up with the nice Le Creuset set + fancy dishes I’d bought for us, but I ended up rid of him as fast as was legally possible. I now have all that same stuff in my kitchen, and I’m pretty sure he still thinks he really stuck it to me by getting it in the divorce.
OP here. Yes, so far he seems to be being cooperative, but we have not gotten down to details like how to talk with the kids. I think he may not be the nicest when it comes down to details, but I just want to be done. I definitely need to be aware of keeping my finances in line and getting what I deserve, but appreciate getting things done as quickly as possible as well.
Yeah, it’s a balancing act. I am not a fan of fighting for the sake of fighting, but I would fight over, like, most five figure+ assets and stuff that is really sentimental to me.
If you are the one who will be moving out, you are the one who will need a lot of cash on hand to get set up. So while things are friendly, make sure you have a war chest in an account in your name. As far as timing, it takes a while to get divorced and both times we physically separated before the divorce was final. But I second the advice to get legal advice first.
Good luck! Life on the other side is so much better!
Focus on your long-term goal, which is to get divorced and move on with your life. Don’t cede (financially) what you are entitled to/need to have, but don’t argue over the stuff that doesn’t matter (like the poster who suggested not arguing over stuff that can be replaced for less than what it costs for your lawyer to argue it out). Don’t be my friends who took 3 years to get divorced because they were stupid and either didn’t take action when they needed to (dilly-dallying will not get you a divorce), got incompetent lawyers, and then argued over stupid stuff. You want to move on; help yourself move on by getting a divorce.
Something about this dress, those shoes, even the sleeves doesn’t seem to work? Shoes too blocky? Dress either too short or too long? Thoughts?
I think the dress itself is great, though would like it best with full-length sleeves… but the shoes are def wrong for it now that you point them out! I’d wear either slim pointed-toe flats or d’Orsay heels, thinking gray or snakeskin or navy.
It’s the bridal buttons down the front.
The shoes are reading heavy and high contrast relative to the dress. Between the shoes and the place where the dress stops there’s a lot of visual weight from the lower leg down to my eye.
The dress is either a couple of inches too long (if the goal is to end at the narrow place below the knee) or several inches too short (if the goal is midi, in which case it should end below the calf muscle where the leg starts to narrow). The shoes need to be close to the model’s skin tone in color value (lightness/darkness).
Also this dress and those shoes are just frumpy.
Is there anywhere in the states that sells The Fold? I’ve been promoted and need new headshots, and I’ve been interested in their tops and blouses for some time. I really like the detailed folds and pleats in the fabric with features that highlight the waist. (The Breville top, Tivoli top, Eldia top.) I know they’ll ship to the US, but I’d prefer to find them somewhere in the states if possible. Or if not, is there somewhere in the states with a similar quality, shape, vibe? I’ll post links for the tops I like below.
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/eldia-long-sleeve-top-ivory-sculpt-knit/
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/clever-crepe-tivoli-top-black/
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/belleville-top-sky-blue-sculpt-stretch-crepe/
Whoops, forgot my username. Trying again.
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/eldia-long-sleeve-top-ivory-sculpt-knit/
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/clever-crepe-tivoli-top-black/
https://thefoldlondon.com/product/belleville-top-sky-blue-sculpt-stretch-crepe/
Lafayette 148 would be good for this.
They don’t sell in the US yet — but I went to their London showroom last month and I am sad to say that it was truly lovely in person. There are a handful of pieces on Poshmark.
I often order online from them and send back things that don’t work. I would still consider doing that if I were you
What are your favorite lifestyle blogs ot magazines? Looking for something like The Everygirl or the old Glamour magazine (I know theres still a website but I miss fhr magazine!).
Early 30s, in a city, something thats moderately aspirational but attainable.
Substacks. All the bloggers moved over there.
Any specific recommendations?
Just chiming in to say I miss whatever magazine (Marie Claire?) used to do the looks for every age decade – 20s through 60s. They’d pick a trend for the month and show the outfits for every age. I’m old and miss paper too!
I like The Stripe. She has a website but also a Substack. Once you get into someone’s Substack that you like, you can check out other creaters that are similar pretty easily.
please don’t tell me i can wear anything i want, i know that…. thoughts on a tennis dress to move my daughter into college dorm. I don’t own shorts, it could easily be 90 degrees. figure it covers everything…. i actually play tennis which is why i own tennis clothes but i have ones that are cuter and have that instagram athleisure look to them
It doesn’t seem terribly practical to me if you’re moving furniture or boxes, but if you’re not playing an active role, I can’t see why this would be a problem.
I own a bunch of Athleta Brooklyn skorts and swear they are perfect for this, maybe with a school tee? Tennis dress might skew a bit precious or twee (but you do you; I’ve seen everything including ruffle puffs with the most impractical skirts for doing stairs in).
A school tee for mom for move in pretty cringey.
Caring what a mom is wearing to move her kid in is pretty cringe.
Why on earth is that cringey? Unless you’re a moody teen who is inherently embarrassed by everything your parents do, this is completely absurd.
It’s cute and supportive. No, it’s not cool, but that doesn’t make it cringe.
Yes! Cute. All the moms in my neighborhood are wearing their tennis stuff everywhere. I’ll wear a golf romper for a day of errands and a walk with friends.
What on earth is a golf romper? I’m very afraid of the answer.
HA! Me, too. But I find sports apparel for “cute looking errands” to be something outside of my understanding.
I think it’s adorable but yeah it’s just like a golf dress but with shorts. It’s pretty preppy and not for everyone. I think it’s cuter than athletic shorts and less fancy than a tennis skirt.
I would wear a tennis skirt and top rather than a tennis dress.
I wear skorts when it is practical (think Title Nine style). When I picture a tennis dress in my mind, I think I’m picturing something that looks like it’s exclusively for the courts, but if you have some with an athleisure look, I wouldn’t hesitate.
I wouldn’t, unless you’re confident of your style and happily own it. College move-in day as the mom isn’t when I’d start wearing a trend that I’ve never worn before and am feeling unsure about.
If you felt confident in it, and this trend was one you were already easily and confidently wearing out and about in your everyday life, then I’d say “sure, go for it.”
I don’t own shorts — the chub rub is lethal!
But then wouldn’t a skirt add chafing, too? This is why I own shorts – including spandex that I can wear under skirts.
I love the exercise dresses that have been out there in the last couple of years. The shorts with pockets underneath are really nice; I don’t worry about flashing anyone and it’s great to have a place to store a cell phone and keys.
tennis attire worn as athleisure is on trend, so go for it. I assume your dress has some type of shorts built in given the amount of awkward positions you may find yourself in throughout the day.
Wait, why can’t you wear the ones you already have?
op here: yes, the whole reason i am considering this is because i already own several.
Oooh, sorry, I just assumed you were looking for something new. My bad!
I also think this sounds like a good idea!
It sounds good, athleisure is the way to go and tennis dresses can be cute.
I would not wear athleisure. You will be getting very dirty, and dirt and dust stains come out of cotton more easily than they come out of synthetic fabrics. I wear jeans shorts, a cotton tank top, and athletic shoes for move-in.
I’m honestly not sure I understand where all the dirt and dust is coming from in this scenario. At my college, the dorm rooms already had a bed and a desk, and everything I was moving in with was either new or had been cleaned. The room was also pretty clean though it’s sensible to do a once over. Are colleges just moving people into filthy dorms these days?
I would be worried about scraping bare legs and arms on cardboard boxes and rearranging furniture. I also don’t think it’s particularly dirty, though!
Yes. We had to clean everything–so grimy.
op here: i dont wear shorts or tank tops. hence the suggestion that i wear tennis clothes.
What kind of dorm move-ins were you doing?!
thanks, I really have to work on feeling as obligated towards protecting my free time as I feel towards work
this is so spot on. I would never have used the word seductive, but you are so right. Feeling a bit helpless thinking about how to develop a non work identity, I am ashamed to admit it.