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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This sweater dress from Misook would be a great item for the awkward winter-to-spring transition period. Come April, I find myself leaving the house in the morning with a jacket and scarf, but by afternoon, the sun is shining and I want to be sitting out on a patio somewhere.
Add a blazer and tights to this contrast-stripe dress for the morning, and by the afternoon, you’ll be ready to enjoy the sun on your arms!
The dress is $298 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XXS–XL. It also comes in blue and pink.
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Anonymous
Looking for a unicorn: very high rise jeans (like 11”), in a dark wash, that go all the way to the floor, strong preference for at least two button closure, prefer bootcut (not cropped). Veronica Beard Corset Skinny Flare jeans look perfect but I can’t spend $300+- my budget is closer to $50 but I’d be OK stalking sales and going up to $100 if there’s a dupe. Levi’s ribcage or 501s have everything but the bootcut. Sadly I can’t find my size in a dark wash anywhere online, but that would be a close second. Suggestions?
Chl
Check out jcrew – they have a couple that might meet that description and more like $150
Greensleeves
My favorite high rise bootcut are the Wit & Wisdom AbSolution High Waist Itty Bitty Bootcut jeans and they would fit most of your criteria. I get them at Nordstrom. There’s a lower priced version under the brand Democracy that’s available on Amazon. I have both and prefer the Wit & Wisdom version because they seem to fit me better and the sizing is more consistent, but the Democracy version isn’t bad.
Anon
I don’t think W&W high rise will be high enough.
Anon
I have those jeans and they’re mid rise on me at best . I also find the length to be kind of short, especially for bootcut jeans, which I expect to be longer than normal.
anon
A bit of a threadjack, but the proliferation of short bootcuts right now are the bane of my existence. I’m 5’3″ and find it ridiculous that I end up with bootcut jeans that are short enough to show my anklebone. I like actual bootcut jeans but if they are too short they are so unflattering.
Anon
Levi’s 725s.
Op
Not high enough. But thank you!!
Anon
BR and BRF have some that go to the floor and come in talls, so rise should be even higher on those and then you can hem.
Anon
Yes – I got a pair of the “heritage” jeans from BRF and they’re close to what you’re looking for.
Anon
It’s not a unicorn, it’s just that you fell in love with the Veronica Beard pair. Try Poshmark for the Veronica Beard? You will probably be unhappy with an inferior dupe.
SC
I bought + tried the VBs and a very similar pair from Frame denim, and ended up going with Frame. It’s a similar price point to VB, so it’s not really an answer for you, but now you have two options to search poshmark with.
anon
Frame and Mother (who also has a similar jean) both tend to go on sale at Anthro – and can get down to around $100. Not quite the price point you were looking for, but probably what you will need to spend.
Anon
American Eagle Next Level High-Waisted Skinny Kick Jean $37 on sale
Anon
https://www.jcrew.com/m/womens/categories/clothing/denim/demi-boot/skinny-flare-jean-in-margaret-wash/MP306?display=standard&fit=Classic&color_name=resin-rinse&colorProductCode=BN104
Anonymous
Maybe the Favorite Daughter Masha? They are closer to VB in price, but might be another option to price-stalk.
Abby
Abercrombie high rise or ultra high rise flare?
anon
What about NYDJ Blake slim flares?
https://nydj.com/collections/bootcut-flared/products/blake-slim-flared-jeans-quinn
Anon
H&M – just saw dark wash high rise bootcut in the stores
Fallen
I have the Madewell skinny flare which look somewhat similar and I would highly recommend! I think they are on sale for around 70 now.
Anon
Abercrombie high rise vintage flare—Abercrombie is surprising with jeans in a broad range of sizes. This style is available in regular and curve love, with four different lengths, reported rise of 10.5”.
Anonymous
There has been a Levi’s ribcage boot model, which was floorlength bootcut. Maybe stalk ebay or poshmark for that one? And try the 34 inch lenght straight ribcage, that might work.
I have not found any jeans of comparable fit and rise.
NaoNao
If you can find a pair of the “Sava” high rise flare/boot cut jeans from Universal Standard in the “L” length, those are high waisted, I *think* they have a button fly although it might be zipper, goes to the floor, is dark, and used or secondhand versions are going to be from $50-100. Make sure to get the SAVA not the Marne. The Marne is a mid-rise boot, not a high rise flare.
Anonymous
I am so not motivated lately. Honestly, it’s been this way for a long time. Two years or so. I’m starting to workout, starting to follow Dr Nagasoki’s burnout recommendations. But I also need to … just do my job. I’ve tried breaking my list into pieces, I’ve tried small rewards, but like yesterday I spent all day cleaning and sorting my inbox and zero minutes doing real billable work. Any ideas?
anon
Is your job salvageable? Two years is a long time to be miserable. When I’ve been in a similar place, it helped to start having hard conversations with myself about my values. How did my work fit into those? How was the rest of my life going, and was I living true to myself in other ways?
Anon
+1. I recently started a new job and it’s made a huge difference in how I feel and the work I do.
Anonymous
+1 If it’s been two years, and you’re reading stuff on burnout, please get very honest with yourself about what you’re experiencing. Is it deep burnout? Is it depression? A combo of both? Is is situational (meaning, changing your situation will fix it) or is it now systemic (body chemistry is so out of whack it will need some longer-term attention)?
anon
This approach won’t work for everyone and wouldn’t be recommended for someone with anxiety, but can you scare yourself into motion?
When I was at a high-paying job I did not want to be at and was long-term unhappy, I occasionally would take an evening and watch a documentary about some facet of poverty in America. A good example was this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/two-american-families/ But reading Nickel and Dimed or watching Maid on Netflix would also probably have done the trick.
It reminded me how fortunate I was and how hard things could get for me if I failed and would get me to snap out of it for a bit and push through at work. And for a few days, I stopped cleaning and stopped sorting my Inbox and did some work. This wasn’t a long term sustainable plan, though, and I ended up in a new job that was a much better fit.
Anon
Not OP, but also very burned out. Growing up in poverty is what causes my anxiety and overwork because of fear I’ll end up back in that place.
anon
The spring 2024 Harvard Business Review special issue is all about burnout at the individual, team, and institution level and steps you can take to alleviate it. I’ve only read the first few articles but it’s pretty good so far.
Anokha
Thank you! Just looked it up. This is such a silly question, but can I buy HBR at Barnes and Nobles? I normally just browse articles online — but it occurs to me that this might be a good in-person purchase!
anon
I’m anon at 11:33 and I actually bought my copy at Barnes & Noble as an impulse buy at the checkout counter. Hope you find it helpful!
anon
Burnout is real, and you can’t see it and really understand it until you are on the other side of it and get past burnout (at least in my experience). I’d kindly suggest that you consider talking to either a counselor or career coach about alternatives – whether it is taking a leave of absence, or getting a new job. The little rewards to fight burn out are like when you are on a run and negotiate with yourself to run to the light post – that works to get the last half mile on a short run, but trying to run a marathon one light post at a time is exhausting. I’d also encourage you to go to your doctor and get them to run a full blood panel to see if there is any physiologically wrong.
Sara
My spidey senses are telling me that a client rep is taking me to dinner in a non professional way. I’m 35, he’s 58-60ish. I’m the main contact for his file (which I inherited when a prior partner died during the pandemic). I’m single, he’s married. I absolutely do not want to have any non-arms length relationship with him. Due to a business merger, he now travels to NYC about every 3-6 months. We had only talked via Zoom until he invited me to dinner last year. That went fine. I threw out let me know next time you’re in town and I’ll pick up the tab. Then he started emailing and texting me little jokes. Still professional but things like where I’m from. He’s very complimentary to my work ethic and approach/personality, nothing about appearance or personal questions. Then he sent me pricey alcohol for Christmas. Yesterday he messaged me for dinner next time he’s in NYC. He wants to go to a pricey restaurant on a Friday night.
Here’s my thing: 1) if I was a man, I probably think anything weird about this. 2) He hasn’t crossed any lines. But I am wary. 3) I would happily bring other partners but I can’t get them to commit to a night event for a client of this size (not huge for others, I’m truly the main person involved). So I can’t figure out a good way to invite them. 4) it can be lonely to have dinner alone in NYC. I know he goes out with his accounting contact in Jersey sometimes, too. I know I am overthinking. Help me stop overthinking? Tell him yes but ask for Wednesday? Tell him yes but talk the whole time about other practice groups to pitch?? Tell him no/make up a conflict and punt the can down the road?
Anon
I think you’re right to have your spidey senses on alert, but since he hasn’t done anything inappropriate, I would say yes to the dinner and go from there.
Anonymous
jumping on the first comment to echo the sentiment. OP, I could have written your post about a broker in my industry, but I was even less important to him than it sounds like you are to this guy.
I respect the gift of fear and am wary, but I go, and it’s fine. He’s not weird. It’s a professional, but also appropriately personal conversation, and I feel the confidence of a mediocre white male. I went to the lunch because I did not want to hold myself back and now I’ve gained an ally. Yes I know you can’t trust anyone, but your post sounds optimistic
Anon
Consolation – I’m in consulting and often have these situations that a guy would have no issues with.
Can you invite someone more junior from your side? Is there a senior associate who would find sitting in on a dinner like this an exciting opportunity?
Anonymous
Invite a partner
Anonymous
Can you bring along an associate who works the file?
Anonymous
This.
Anon
Or even one who doesn’t? Many associates would be happy for the practice interacting with clients
Anon
+1
Former Parisian
This is the sort of thing why women are less likely to be rainmakers… Bring an associate, it’s win/win for you and the associate getting client exposure (and a nice free dinner).
The No Club
People are agreeing with this, but I think it would be strange to bring an associate, especially one that doesn’t work on the matter. The partner and the client are meant to be equals, and often successful partners are friends, or at least friendly, with their clients.
I’m in-house and have been invited to meet up by a partner who wanted to get to know me better/develop me (which, again, is what OP did here). I would have found it odd if they later changed the invitation to say they were bringing along an associate in the group – it makes it feel much less like a personal 1:1 and more like a hard-sell, very business-focused meeting, and it would be much less helpful for developing the relationship between me and the partner.
Anonymous
Your spidey sense is probably right but we sometimes (unfortunately) have to balance discomfort with a book of business. If you don’t want to have the awkward convo (I wouldn’t, yet), I’d try for a dinner on a work night with or without others. The Friday night is what throws me here. Pricey alcohol at Christmas could be a corporate gift. I’d move it to Wednesday if you are inclined to meet.
Anon
I would say yes if he will reschedule for Monday—Thursday, with a message on the order of “I am trying to keep business events to the workweek and prioritize the weekend for my family. Could we schedule for Thursday?”
Anon
Rescheduling is fine, but don’t use this messaging. You don’t need an excuse and it will seem preachy.
Cat
+1, don’t even give an excuse. That sounds like you’re open to negotiation.
Cat
The only thing weird about this is that it’s Friday. Why is he still in NYC for dinner if it’s a business trip? I’d counter with an earlier weeknight as you suggested.
Anonymous
He may be staying the extra night so he can fit in this dinner OP explicitly invited him to.
Anon
Or maybe he just likes NYC and wants to see a Broadway show or go to the Met or something. It doesn’t mean he’s trying to get her into bed.
Anonymous
That is what I meant. She asked him to dinner and he might have other dinners planned and wants to make sure he also catches up with her. Or yes, he might just want to stay. I certainly do extend business trips when I can.
An.On.
I had a few uncomfortable dinners with older men when I first started practicing. I went because I wanted to make professional connections and the invitations weren’t overtly romantic – plenty of plausible deniability for them to hide behind. While nothing disastrous happened, I think the men would definitely have pursued more if I’d been willing. And ultimately it didn’t put me in any better position in my work or professional relationships, since the men really didn’t want that anyway. I wish I had better advice for you. I would be inclined to turn it down if you can do so gracefully or find maybe another contact on the file to bring in.
Anon
+1 this has been my experience, too. To maintain boundaries, I would suggest a weeknight and make sure to meet him there. Don’t share a cab/Uber. Also, have a hard stop. Tell him “I need to leave by 9 PM” or whatever.
Anon
What about saying you’re tied up Friday night but would love to grab a coffee if he’s free that morning, or a quick bite at 5? I also think it’s fine to just say sorry, I’m not available and have a good trip! this time – it isn’t going to wreck the business relationship and may dampen any non-work related goals he has
The No Club
You: suggest getting together for dinner next time client is in town
Client: mentions he’s in town and suggests getting that dinner
You: /shocked Pikachu
Anon
You’re not wrong.
Bring along an associate.
Op
Yep, I am aware this is part of my conflicted feeling! Would you have any discomfort about this from a professional or personal standpoint?
Anonymous
Not the earlier commenter, but no, I wouldn’t. All of this sounds like typical conduct in a professional world, especially the pricey alcohol and selection of an upscale restaurant. If something inappropriate happens at the dinner, act appropriately then. It is a real handicap to us a women that people want to limit our ability to network with men in business contexts. Don’t hamstring yourself.
Anon
Exactly.
Anonymous
I would not feel weird about this for what it’s worth. I’m a lawyer and worked at a big firm for a long time. A lot of clients tack on a weekend to their trip to NYC because there’s fun stuff to do. A Friday night drink/meal doesn’t seem crazy in that context.
The fact he suggested an expensive restaurant makes me think it’s more likely he wanted to try the restaurant while in town but didn’t want to pay himself because it’s expensive vs. having bad intentions.
That being said, you are the one interacting with him so you are best positioned to decide if it’s inappropriate. Is it something about the emailed jokes? The compliments?
You could suggest an earlier activity (eg drinks right after work vs an evening meal).
The No Club
Not based on what you’ve described, which all seems totally normal based on two professionals who have a warm/close working relationship. But you know the situation better than any of us.
Yes But Also
reminds me of the time:
Me: suggests getting together for dinner next time an acquaintance is in town
Friend: mentions he’s in town and suggests getting that dinner, suggests a location
Me: Googles the restaurant name and finds out it’s actually a strip club, politely declines and blocks
Anon
I had a similar situation. I went to the client dinner, and the client proceeded to tell me how that restaurant hosts “key parties” on certain nights of the week. I’m 40 and didn’t even know what that means. Imagine my shock as he explained it…super uncomfortable.
Anonymous
Yeah, it might trigger a memory of that for you but that is not at all what happened here.
Anon
Could you switch the dinner to lunch?
Nesprin
Bring your admin/assistant/junior staffer to the dinner to take notes?
LA Law
In absolutely no universe would I bring my admin or assistant to any client meal, much less one after hours. Among other things, my firm would raise eyebrows at the overtime. And it is just not appropriate. This is a quasi-social event, not a business meeting. Nobody needs to be taking notes.
OP – He is probably spending the weekend in NYC (I did the last time I was there for work) and does not want to have dinner by himself. You do not need a chaperone to have dinner with a client. That said, ask if his wife is coming with him and that she would be welcome to join if she would like. Wear office rather than going out clothes. Say you have early plans on Saturday, so you need to make an early night of it. And if and only if he does something inappropriate, handle it the way you would handle any unwelcome advances (I would say I am flattered (even if I was not) but I do not date married men or clients.) But honestly I have had hundreds of these dinners and only one person has ever been inappropriate. I deflected, he dropped it, and it did not impact our working relationship (although I took the precaution of telling my boss just in case).
This kind of second-guessing and implying improper motives to objectively innocent conduct is one of the reasons women have a hard time building their own books of business and finding mentors.
anonymom
Agreed. FWIW I am a big law firm partner. And interestingly, the way that OP describes her relationship with this client is exactly the same way I’d describe my relationship with my closest client contact — only difference is that my client is a woman.
I don’t see anything inappropriate in this exchange — OP suggested dinner next time!! — and wouldn’t deflect, bring an associate/admin (NO WAY), or come up with a feigned excuse to reschedule based on what has been reported here. And I agree with those who have said that being overly cautious in this area is one reason women do not become rainmakers.
Anon
Ok so you invited him to dinner. I’m not sure what to say about your spidey senses since you’re the one who initiated this.
Make the dinner plans on a weekday early in the evening and make it clear that you have a set amount of time before you go. Keep it professional and go back to work.
NaoNao
The spidey senses are the total picture: the texts/jokes, the expensive alcohol, the invite to a Friday (date night) dinner at an expensive place. I think people are slightly brushing off this woman’s likely correct instincts and it’s a little irritating to see. For the OP, look at the texts or messages again–can you sincerely imagine a female or gay male (or whatever) colleague or client sending them? If so, you’re likely in the clear and it’s genuinely “just business”. If you have trouble imaging your “work bestie” sending them, well…I’d still go but channel Joan Holloway from Mad Men. Pleasant, brisk, professional, and with steel claws under those velvet gloves and a strong sense of “I’m SURE you wouldn’t insult me with a *come on*, would you!??!”
Anonymous
Act as if you are 100% sure this is a business dinner and it couldn’t possibly be anything else. Move it to a weekday, invite an associate, talk shop.
Anonymous
Poor guy.
Anon
Switch to lunch, tell him “Darn, would have loved to go to [restaurant name] with you, but I am taking my family skiing this weekend and we are leaving on Friday evening. Let’s reschedule for next time you are in town, or I can do lunch on Friday.”
This is breezy and puts it off.
Anonymous
Yeah, I think it will cement the business relationship to create a fake family and a fake trip. You can start a running doc so you don’t forget the tales you’ve told and share it with your admin so he/she doesn’t get tripped up when the client calls, either.
Anon
Could you reschedule to lunch?
It's me.
I asked a while ago about the Ripley Radar pants that were stalking me on sm, but nobody had tried them. I finally ordered them and really like them! They make a great statement and are super comfortable. They are definitely fitted over the stomach and backside, but they don’t look like leggings.
theguvnah
I ordered the Quince knockoffs and currently have them at the tailors because they are so long – how is the RR length?
Anon
I’m looking for a family immigration lawyer recommendation in the San Francisco Bay area. It’s for a complex situation that is going to require a strategic thinker – I’m not looking for someone who can diligently fill out a few official forms for us (we can do that for free), but someone who knows the intricacies of family immigration law in today’s climate. Needs to speak Russian. Any ideas?
Anon
Unless the individual is actually needs to show up in Immigration Court in SF, they can actually use an attorney located anywhere. Immigration is federal, and attorneys frequently rep clients in other areas, especially for affirmative proceedings (filing paperwork) v. defensive (appearing in Court). It may be easier to find someone with this specialized expertise in another area with a large Russian community.
Anon
Like Portland, OR or Vancouver, WA. Both cities have substantial Russian populations to the point that Russian is the no. 1 non-English language spoken in those cities.
Anon
The Bay Area has a large Russian community.
Bewitched
Not in SF (although a prior resident, currently in Portland OR), but I would recommend Bryan McGowan, Law Office of Bryan McGowan. I know him personally, his work is top notch, he is professional and ethical and he’s fluent in Russian. Works with various well known corporations and higher ed clients. Highly recommend! https://ailalawyer.com/english/AttorneyDetail.aspx?P=21288&A=58201
Anon
anyone read about the decision in Alabama that frozen embryos are children? personally i think that is absurd and is leading us down a dangerous path (which we are already on)
anonshmanon
I guess no more IVF in Alaska. When the washing Post gave some legal context, I learned in GA that you can now claim a dependent from six weeks of pregnancy??
Anon
Serious question: why wouldn’t you allow women to claim unborn children as dependents? My kid was born in February and I started incurring medical costs the previous July. There are also a lot of upfront costs to having a kid: all those appointments, delivery, time off work, crib, car seat, changing pad, swaddling blankets, burp cloths. So if new moms get two years of tax deductions instead of one, that seems about right.
I also like the idea that women’s time, discomfort, and bodily stress isn’t free. What’s the idea behind not giving her a tax deduction: it’s free to be pregnant but it isn’t free to have a baby???
Anon
Georgia also allows women to seek child support while pregnant in order to cover pregnancy related expenses, which I think is great.
Anon
Because a dependent is a human person who is financially dependent on you, and there’s not one yet before birth.
There are lots of situations that cause additional expense and discomfort that are good for society. Taking care of aging parents, etc. But you don’t get tax breaks for those.
anonymous
I’m generally pro choice, but our side needs to grapple with this: An unborn child is “a human person” (and for this discussion, one who is financially dependent on you).
What is it about moving a few inches down the birth canal that suddenly makes one “a human person”? What is it before birth? A pinecone? A squirrel? A squash?
Anon
People probably should get tax breaks or some other form of support for taking care of aging parents?
As for “a human person,” I try not to go around trying to decide which other humans have personhood or not; it doesn’t seem like a good road to go down.
Anon
I see. Anon at 10:07 and 10:51 (assuming they’re the same person) isn’t interested in good faith discussion.
Anon
Okay. I’m prochoice, but not on the grounds of personhood arguments that I find overly philosophical and ethically dubious.
Anon
I am the Anon at 10:07 and you have zero reason to believe that I am not interested in good faith discussion. Maybe that’s projection.
Do you believe that an unborn child is dependent on its mother or not?
Anon
Side bar: you can claim your “permanently and totally disabled” adult child on your taxes, in certain circumstances.
Special needs trusts are entitled to certain tax advantages.
Maybe caring for your elderly parents should involve a tax break. I really despise when people act like caregiving time is free. That’s time not spent making money, advancing in your career, getting more education, etc. But you’re not. What you are doing is preventing an adult from becoming a ward of the state.
Anonymous
As someone who is pro-choice I need to know what you think unborn children are if they aren’t human persons? Elephants or dolphins maybe?
Anon III
I’m pro-choice. Absent weird states like Alabama, personhood begins at birth, legally, not at conception. That’s how we’ve set things up here as a country, generally.
I’m not arguing. That’s just what we consider the time of personhood for many regulations and statutes, whether criminal, tax, or otherwise.
Anonymous
“Personhood” for embryos and fetuses is a misnomer. It actually assigns embryos and fetuses rights that no actual living person has–the right to exploit another person’s body for their own benefit.
Anonymous
We are talking about embroys in a dish? Serious question have you not read anything on this case?
Anon
“I learned in GA that you can now claim a dependent from six weeks of pregnancy??”
That’s what I was responding to. It was:
anonshmanon
02/20/2024 AT 9:55 AM
Serious question have you not read anything on this thread?
Anonymous
This post is about IVF. If you want to talk about something different start a new one. Don’t muddy the waters here.
Anon
Then tell that to anonshmanon, who brought up the issue of child tax credit during pregnancy at 02/20/2024 AT 9:55 AM, which was before my comment at 10:07.
Anonymous
I was?
anonshmanon
I think you make some reasonable points. I also like the logical consistency, i.e. if life begins at conception per some government’s assessment, then we had better extend all legal frameworks for protecting children/helping families with children to the stage of pregnancy. Eating for two? Food stamp benefits for two. Pregnant women can use the carpool lane. And so on.
I have no problem with GA extending the tax deduction, my two ?? were mostly an expression of surprise.
Anon
I would not extend this to the carpool lane. It’s illegal to have two people behind the wheel. Legal fictions are sometimes necessary, and “a child for the purposes of a tax credit but not for the purposes of arresting you for having your kid in the driver’s seat” is perfectly reasonable.
Anon
Alabama, but yeah. I would never do IVF at a clinic in the south anymore. But there are also a ton of appointments, so I don’t think it’s reasonable for most women to travel out of state for IVF.
anonshmanon
thanks, that was an autocorrect fail!
Anon
I am NO tax expert but I filed my own taxes in GA with Turbo and noticed in the question for that credit (are/were you pregnant this year?) and (1) the credit was way higher than for my actual existing children and (2) can I just claim to get pregnant every year? There’s no follow up as to actually birthing the child. Overall smells like more body regulation…
Anonymous
Yes it’s a tragedy. IVF is hard enough without being forced to travel out of state for it.
Anon
+1000.
Anon
Yes. This is the kind of thing I was talking about in a post many months ago when I said Republicans are launching many creative, multi-pronged strategies to attack women’s abortion rights while Dems express disapproval and never lift a finger to even respond adequately, much less come up with creative protections. It’s enraging. We are watching our rights slip away and every little action I personally take to try to help seems so meaningless.
Anon
With friends like these…try working against the Republicans and the minority rules they are using in every branch of govt, instead of blaming Dems. Be angry sure but don’t blame the victim.
Anon
Lolololol our elected Democrats are not victims here. If that’s what they think, no wonder we’ve got problems!
Anon
Since before I was born, people were encouraging Dems to get ahead of these strategies. Absolutely I am going to blame them.
Anon
Absolutely. This issue is too important to give them a free pass on being so flat-footed. I want them to feel some urgency. I want them to feel that our votes aren’t a given just because they say words about Roe being good. In the meantime, I’m focusing my efforts on disseminating information about misoprostol.
NYNY
I have enough rage for both parties to catch some of it. Absolutely the Republicans are making the messes, but I can still be mad at the Democrats for not fighting hard enough.
Anon
I think of it like this – if a drunk driver kills someone at a notoriously bad intersection, obviously the driver is at fault and the deceased is the victim. But I still want the city and state to aggressively pursue better road design, enforcement, and legislation to prevent drunk drivers from getting free rein to harm others. I would be angry if they said “well the driver was at fault, not us.” Right now, the Democrats are sending thoughts and prayers instead of pursuing every avenue at their disposal. It’s okay to be mad about that.
Anonymous
If they are children then defrost them and let them live their lives like any other child.
Anon
Right – and surely the anti-choice crowd will be glad to serve as foster parents.
Anon
What on earth do you mean by “defrost them”?
Anonymous
The point is that frozen embryos aren’t children. They are frozen cells. You can’t just defrost them and poof magic have living breathing children.
Anon
They are frozen humans at the earliest stages of development. If you left an infant without someone to care for it, it would also die. People need different levels of care at different life stages.
Anon
She is making the point that they aren’t children and embryos don’t become children by defreezing them. Just like you can’t take raw cake batter and sell it as a cake.
Anonymous
Wait so what are you supposed to do with them? Pay for them to remain frozen indefinitely? And if you can’t then what happens – the clinic can’t destroy them because they’d be killing a person. You just rack up medical debt for the rest of your life? What happens when you and your spouse are both gone? Does the state take them over? My tax dollars are going to pay for cryogenic preservation of embryos? Can people apply to “adopt” abandoned embryos? So if I can’t afford to keep embryos frozen the state gets to take my embryos and give them to some other woman to birth a child who is biologically mine against my will and without my consent? Perhaps after I’m long dead?
Anon
I bet they’ll make parents pay for a funeral, like the ghouls in Indiana do
Anonymous
Dream with me: you’re invited to a gala for a world famous museum. Dress code is “creative black tie.” Past attendees have worn 3D sculptural gowns, body paint, etc. If you had no budget, what would you wear? Descriptions or links welcome!
Reality: I am working the event so will be in a simple black dress under $200 that is designed to blend in but allow me to run if something goes wrong. But love to dream! Ha!
hollypolly
This is a job for Iris van Herpen.
anon
Issey Miyake (main line)
anon
Issey Miyake (main line)
Seventh Sister
Rodarte or Lanvin if I wanted something feminine and not too strange, Yohji Yamamato or Guo Pei if I wanted something more unusual.
Anon
Whoever dresses Rihanna for the Met Gala.
Vicky Austin
honestly this sounds like the Met Gala!
Anon
Comme des Garçons.
Anon
I wore an amazing hot pink, one sleeve sculptural dress by Solace London to a wedding with this dress code last year. I looked amazing.
Anon
Lanvin
Marchesa
Valentino
Oscar de la Renta
In reality I’d probably wear a fabulous Saree with Bulgari bling and that way I’d absolutely stand out.
RiskedCredit
Reposting from the weekend…. It’s been quiet!
I’m not finding many opportunities in the NYC/North Jersey area for senior finance/accounting leader roles. Does anyone have any suggestions for good recruiters to connect with?
I’m looking for a good accounting leadership role, ideally with global operations. Im a CPA and have broker dealer and technology experience. My last role was head of credit risk, role before that divisional cfo for the technology group. Big 4 background (worked both audit and consulting). To put into context, I was 3 layers below c suit and my total package $450k. Looking for something in that ballpark. My last two roles were from my own network and fell in my lap. This time I need to do the work. I’m with Korn Ferry already, but they have few opportunities.
Anon III
Are you looking in tech? Because a fintech would love your experience. Look in tech.
RiskedCredit
Yes I am looking in tech but the last 4 final round interviews have gone to the guy leaving investment banking. It’s tough at this stage of my career/life.
Im not finding many opportunities in the NYC area which are suitable hence why I though to go through a recruiter. My network has never been great because I didn’t attend school in the U.S. and I’ve spent the past 10 years running home to do bedtime.
Anon
Rant ahead – I’m aiming for a director role in the next 2-5 years, and will likely have to change jobs to do it (there is a preference for promoting from outside vs. within at my company). I had a series of interviews for a director role but it looks like they’re opting for someone else. I’m bummed but the bigger issue is that my husband was NOT supportive of the interviews at all (it would be a 3x/wk in office role vs. once/wk now) because of ‘how it would impact him’. We have two kids (tween, young teen) and a dog plus an awesome sitter who drives and helps with the dog. In my opinion we’re set up so that I can take a more demanding role, the kids are older, we have help, etc.
My husband says all the right things about how valuable my work is (and it is! I make about what he does and have the health benefits!) but when push comes to shove he still wants to do less while being praised for all of his ‘support’. I’m scheduling therapy for us (which has been helpful in the past) but I am so angry. I articulated this to him and he’s aware he messed up and is on board with therapy but it’s like it doesn’t stick (and he seems vaguely surprised when the therapist agrees with me that we’re not even close to equal in the household stuff?!?). Advice beyond DTMFA (which I’m considering tbh).
Cat
ick. while I agree overall household impact of a job change is something worth discussing. By that I mean saying “that’s an awesome opportunity! sounds like the two of us won’t be able to handle quite as much during the week as before – let’s talk about what changes we might need” NOT being totally unsupportive.
Anonymous
If you’re at the point of considering divorce, say that in therapy. Don’t be gentle to spare his feelings. Tell him you’re angry tell him you feel disrespected tell him he is lazy and entitled and you’re contemplating a divorce. Gift him that honesty before it is too late.
Anon
Yikes, what a baby! I’m so sorry, it must be such a disappointment to get that reaction from him.
Anon
Honestly, he has shown you who he is. And it sounds like this (or something similar) has happened multiple times. If this was a first, I would be cautiously optimistic for growth. But not if it had happened multiple times.
Go to counseling, but also recognize that he is unlikely to change. Is this something you can live with? Are you ok with your relationship being a model for your kids?
Anon
+1 this is who he is. You have to decide if it’s a dealbreaker or a price of admission.
Anon
I would clearly look at your life and see what you are really getting out of this marriage. A lot of things can be worked through but a man who fundamentally doesn’t see men and women as equal and who fundamentally values you for how you benefit him is not fixable by caring more or investing more attention in the marriage. I’m so sorry OP, I think this is an OUTRAGEOUS issue to be confronting in 2024.
go for it
ouch- that sounds rough. Sending you warm thoughts.
I was married to someone like him once~ with small kids and a big job. It was infuriating.
Have you heard of Terry Real? The modality of his approach may be of impact to both you and your spouse. There is a book called US by him that has been extremely helpful.
Anon
My main advice would be to drive forward with your own dreams. He will catch up or not but don’t hold yourself back, and don’t let him gaslight you. Good luck.
Anon
This. Just go for it and don’t wait for his input or implicit permission. That’s not a great way to run a marriage, but a great marriage wouldn’t have this problem so….
Anon
Ok, just devil’s advocate here – we’ve talked here plenty of times about when the man-spouse has a Big Job that negatively impacts the other parent/partner … and I know in my family, if my DH was going to take a big job that impacted our distribution of household responsibilities I’d sure want to have a conversation about it. We have a set up now that works (just barely) between daycare drop off, school bus schedule, activities, etc. etc. and it’s not that we couldn’t adjust, but it would absolutely require some changes to my work schedule to, and that wouldn’t be easy in my line of work. Could it be done? Sure. Would I resent a little that I had to make those changes? Yup.
Anon
Fair points.
Anonymous
Yeah I came here to say something m similar. I’m in OPs exactly situation – I’m job hunting and currently in office 1x a week with very flexible hours. Most jobs in our area require 3 days now. I make about 40% of household income so not insignificant, but I worked in an intense job for many years and have stepped back to be the more flexible one (which I’m happy with) and my husbands job is very inflexible.
My husband has been really wary about jobs that are in office 3x a week, but I think the way he’s been expressing it is more productive. It’s not about impact on him, but on the overall changes we’d need to make as a family to accommodate a different job.
That being said, it’s hard being in this job hunt where I feel like I need to replicate my current comp and set up. I don’t really want a new job but my company isn’t doing well. But that’s not about my husband but really about internal pressure I’m feeling.
Anonymous
Agree here. I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to not want to rock the boat. The husband could be conflicted himself. Wants his wife to achieve but also doesn’t want to disrupt what may be working well. I don’t think that is unfair on its face. Still, it’s worth further discussion.
Anon
OP’s husband apparently complained about the interview process (3x/week for presumably a limited number of weeks). Even this was apparently too much for him.
anon
To be fair, I’d discourage anyone I cared about from taking a job that required 3 days a week for 3 weeks interview process, because they are loons. But I don’t think that’s what OP meant
Anon
I am with you in terms of my own family with young kids and DH and I have both intentionally made career choices that prioritize family time, but I do think it’s different when kids are a lot older. His objection seems to be mainly her going into the office three times per week vs one, and I’m not really sure why that’s his problem. It doesn’t sound like it will require him to do more childcare.
Anon
I know my spouse (who is prone to anxiety) is afraid of change and his initial reaction to lots of things (having a child, changing jobs, going on vacation to a new place for the first time) is almost always initially negative. It took a while, but the way we manage though change now is that i present the change to him not as a problem for him to solve or even co-solve (he finds it overwhelming) but to instead present a statement and solution. “Hey DH, I need to start going into the office 4 days a week so I’ve signed DS for additional aftercare.”
In the end, I know DH at his best self is super supportive and proud of me, but – especially when he’s otherwise stressed – he can get in an anxiety spiral when he needs to change the routines he relies upon.
Is there any of that at play here, or is your DH just a big man-baby? (And to be clear, I know my DH can totally be a man-baby himself, but he does have a reason, if not an excuse).
Anonymous
This is the modern man: wants his wife to have a big job outside the home, earn $$$, maintain the health insurance, but also wants her to do most of the household labor and parenting so he can spend his weekends golfing and going to shows. My husband’s friends all think he’s henpecked because he does the laundry.
Anon
Different anon but it is amazing how prevalent this attitude is among well educated men who aren’t that old! I’m in my early 40s and have had one friend separate and one friend divorce because they realized it would actualy be easier and more equitable to parent with a divorced partner vs. the manchild their supposed partners were. These women both had divorced parents, grew up in a very working class way and have worked since their teens. They can (and have in the past) supported their husband and kids….so why remain married if their partner is bringing nothing but frustration and some extra dollars to the table?
Anonymous
Yep, this is why my husband is the only one of his high school friend group who is still married. They all judge him for not keeping me in line, ha.
Anon
That would get a quick STFU from me. He wants to continue to do nothing around the house and in terms of childcare, so he’d prefer you limit your career to make that easier for him?
That’s divorce juice.
NaoNao
I’ve seen advice to flip it from “how much we do around the house” to “do we have equal or equitable amounts of private time, and leisure time?”
Often this makes a lightbulb go on for men who are otherwise insisting that cleaning the gutters once every 3 years is “just the same” level of contribution as the huge load of caregiving for children. If you’re able to focus on “is the amount of “me time” each of us gets fair or equitable? if not, why? Are you okay with that?”
The reality is, with 3x more time in the office, yes, things will change. And he or someone (maybe those older kids?) will have to pitch in more. The reality is that almost all men over 30 were raised with this idea that women like homemaking, it’s “genetic” and pleasurable for them, and/or that they are *choosing to care* about things like a clean bathroom and a stocked pantry, etc. It’s very hard to find one who doesn’t have this core belief. So naturally he’s thinking “well, why am I being asked to do more housework when the Assigned By Nature partner is off having “fun” because to many men, work IS a form of play, fun, or self-actualization.
Management consulting questions
Does anyone here work for one of the big management consulting firms? If so, what has your experience been like with work/life balance and job security? I am currently deciding whether it would be worth trying to pivot to as a newly graduated physician with a business background. I think I would enjoy the work tremendously and being able to focus on bigger picture problems would be really nice, rather than just grinding away day by day in a very broken system. My main concerns, however, would be the lack of job security (compared to medicine) and the work/life balance, as I would like to have several kids over the next 5-6 years.
Anon
I’m at MBB and married to a very sub-specialized physician in academic medicine. We have kids. I will reply, but won’t have time until this evening, so please check back later.
Anon
Ok, coming back with more thoughts in case you see this. We are both mid-senior level. Husband’s specialty is on the order of cardiothoracic surgery, GI, neuro, etc.
In terms of work life balance, my job has much more flexibility but also more hours. On the plus side, this means I can do kid daycare schedules and sign on later while my husband can’t. However, on the downside it also can be frustrating to be in many cases both the on call parent and also have longer hours (feels at times like I carry a heavier workload / have to absorb more). Flexibility has dramatically increased as I have gotten more senior, so would not have had this flexibility ~3 years ago. I don’t work full days on the weekends, often just a couple of hours that I can fit in as I please. My husband obviously has to work 1-2 days almost half the weekends of the year and will throughout his career. I intentionally chose a sector of the business that does not involve travel because that was a non-starter for me long term. If you are picky about wanting to be in a particular sector / type of cases, you may have to travel a decent amount (2-3 days weekly). Also, in general the mentality in most consulting firms is that our jobs are better done from the office. So if you think you’d be getting 2+ days a week from home, I think you’ll find yourself mistaken in a few years as things continue to shift more and more back to the office.
Job security is nothing like medicine but much better than most corporate jobs. The reality of consulting is that for some people it really clicks, they’re good at it, and it’s a straight chute (though not easy) up the ladder. For other people it is not. It’s not easy to know in advance which cohort you will be in.
Other considerations: I get paid better than my husband does, but that’s because physician salaries tend to be low in coastal cities (in the 200s vs. 600s in small cities and 800+ in rural areas for his specialty) and we live in one of those. If we moved to another market, he alone could possibly make more than the sum of our income now, but we don’t want to leave our city. Society hates what I do, but loves what he does. On the flip side, my firm and our direct clients treat my colleagues and I with a ton of respect (working technology, nice office environment, work with coworkers who are all expected to act like adults, cell phone plan covered, training, robust feedback systems). In contrast, he does not get very much in the way of systemic support to get his job done – this can be really draining over time and contributes a lot to burnout for many doctors. For example, he is expected to be reachable by phone and have a computer but the hospital doesn’t provide either of these, the IT systems are a joke, people don’t know how to use Outlook or conference room technology so meetings are constantly being confused / rearranged / canceled on short notice. My job is incredibly action oriented, which gives me a ton of energy: everyone is always trying to move things forward, at a good pace, and you are expected to contribute to that. He finds that the cultural norm is more of stagnation in the hospital – as you noted a lot of broken systems with no incentives to improve and many people who actively hinder efforts to drive change.
The one thing I would say is that depending on the firm you may not have a ton of luck coming in saying you want to specialize in healthcare. You don’t mention that as a priority, but if you want to be in healthcare, you will probably find the capitalist mindset too frustrating with your prior mindset, and also there may not be enough work volume to really sustain the work you want to do at all times. If you want to be a generalist, you may enjoy it more! We also have a number of doctor friends who have gone into health investing roles at VC which seem to be great!
Management consulting questions
Thank you so much for this! Incredibly helpful. One of the things that bugs me the most in medicine is the lack of efficiencies/waste of resources and I truly miss the corporate world in many ways. I don’t *need* to specialize in healthcare per se, it just seems like the obvious choice if I go down this path.
Anonymous
I think working for a consulting firm as a physician is a very different situation. My spouse is a doctor and we have a few friends who have gone this route (or generally gone into business in other roles).
I can’t tell where you are in your career – did you just graduate med school or residency? For my friends in consulting firms, in general, they started after residency and work regular MBB hours for most of the year and then for 6-12 weeks a year they work as a hospitalist practicing medicine to maintain their license/experience (this is required by their firms). If you are coming right out of med school and aren’t licensed to practice, I’m not sure what that would look like but would imagine the expectations would be similar to a regular MBB consultant and you may not have the practice requirements. They also travel a lot, which could be difficult with kids.
I do have other physician friends who have gone in house to other business roles (venture capital firms, corporations with a healthcare focus, medical device companies, etc.) and the work life balance can be better than a big consulting firm.
There are other paths to working on bigger picture problems in medicine, including administrator roles in hospitals, starting your own practice, working in a specialty you enjoy, research, etc.
Anonymous
OMG this is terrible. I would NOT want to be the patient of a doctor who only practiced 6 weeks a year, and when you’re in the hospital you don’t exactly get to choose your doctor.
anon
Serious question: how would you feel if you realized that your project is making the big picture problems even bigger and more intractable? Because that’s sort of the reputation consulting has in some circles right now.
Anon
Especially in healthcare. My family member is a physician who spent his career working on public health initiatives designed to lessen costs by increasing access to preventative care, thereby reducing the need for acute care. He spent several years working with a team from McKinsey and was extremely unimpressed, particular with the MDs on the McKinsey team that were billed as subject experts. None of them had clinical experience and went straight into consulting. In his opinion, physicians without clinical experience lack a big picture understanding of the field and have limited utility.
Management consulting questions
This is helpful. I actually have clinical experience (and significant business experience) – would be joining after residency as a board-certified physician. I just really like office type of work and also dream of a job where I could work partly from home.
Anon
That’s not a lot of clinical experience. At all. Saying this as an MD.
Being a resident is very different.
Anon
You can absolutely do this without going into consulting. What’s your specialty? My family member was an internist and did only a couple days of clinic per week (though he did have to take weekend call occasionally), then did his public health work on other days. Technically he held two different titles for much of his career, so he was working two part time jobs. This was at an academic medical center.
Anon
Seconding this comment. Also in healthcare. The system is very messed up and very unlikely to be made better by consultants. The output of your projects is very unlikely to improve anything for the clinicians or patients.
Anon
I work for a large consulting firm. I think this is a great place to have kids (the leave is generous, the project work makes it easy to jump back in when you’re ready) – but it takes some flexibility, boundary setting, and likely paid resources to manage the job with small kids.
Job security is mixed. Top performers are highly valued, but it’s hard to be a tough performer. Ask many questions about how they integrate experienced hires – most firms struggle with this. Ask to speak with an MD specifically.
Anon
Can you be more specific with what problems you’re wanting to solve and how much you’re wanting to make? You really need to know what motivates you, too – if it’s money, then consulting’s not a bad option, but if it’s genuinely helping people, then I wouldn’t recommend consulting. And I’d think hard on what specifically you’re looking to get away from with practicing medicine.
You will still work in a broken system by default of consulting for healthcare entities.
To answer your question – I’ve never worried about job security. I’ve worked with many of the same leaders (Managing Directors) my whole career and built a solid reputation. When the economy is poor, we’re needed for cost cutting, when the economy is going well then we focus on value creation (i.e., making private equity shareholders more money). My firm was fairly atypical of not over hiring during 2020/2021, so we have not had a need for layoffs.
Work life balance is what you make it. I was fine putting more hours in when I was in my twenties. I’m unwilling to make those sacrifices in my early thirties and have paid the price through foregone promotions and more money. You’ll likely travel a ton. You will work 60+ hours easily, likely more when you first start and are working to build your rep.
Keep in mind you would likely be brought in at a junior level unless you also hold an administrative role today.
Source: About a decade in healthcare management consulting. Firm pay is better than Big 4, but probably not quite as good as MBB (between PCP total comp and that of a lower paid specialty).
anino
Pretty impressive that someone with exactly the right kind of experience is able to chime in – amazing variety and generosity on this board.
NYNY
It’s late to do this for the coming year, but have you looked at administrative fellowships in academic medicine? It’s a fast track to leadership, where you have a chance to actually change a few broken things.
anon
A bit of a different option, but if you decide to practice for a few more years, you could look at medical director roles at a reinsurance company. A big part of their job is promoting & educating best practices to improve outcomes, help people live longer, healthier, etc.. Helping insurers understand what conditions/diagnoses mean & how they can offer life insurance to those affected (vs in past where people would just be disqualified). Lots of thought leadership & presentations. Absolutely likely to be remote or hybrid. Good $. However, you need more clinical experience than just residency.
Anon
Yeah this is not really what a medical director at an insurance company does. Their goal it to decrease what the insurance company pays. Ask any practicing physician what they think about medical directors at insurance companies and what their contribution is to improved patient outcomes.
Anon
That’s not true. She said reinsurance. The whole idea is to promote general health to reduce costs, which is not at the individual claim level. It’s a whole system approach. I’ve worked with medical directors before. They did not get involved with claims.
Anonymous
I think very poorly of them based on my many peer to peer phone calls. I suspect they couldn’t make the cut as actual clinicians.
Anon
You still don’t know what it is if you’re talking about peer to peer phone calls. That’s claims work.
Non-fiction book recs?
Can we have a non-fiction book recommendations thread? (You all always have wonderful ones.)
I’ll start:
Among the Thugs: Bill Buford — The author, an American, embeds himself with English soccer hooligans in the 1980’s. The images were so powerful I remember this although I read it 30 years ago.
Anon
I’ve really enjoyed several of the ones that have been recommended here a lot: Say Nothing, Empire of Pain, Bad Blood, Catch and Kill, She Said, Know My Name, The Boys in the Boat.
One that was really excellent and I think is a bit under the radar is “Black Edge: Inside Information, Dirty Money, and the Quest to Bring Down the Most Wanted Man on Wall Street” about shady hedge fund practices.
anon
I just read A Fever in the Heartland by Timothy Egan, and it reads like true crime rather than historical non-fiction. It’s about the KKK in the 1920s.
New Here
I think this will be my next listen.
txanon
+1 here, enjoyed this one
emeralds
Ooh this looks great, I put it on hold at the library.
I just finished The Last Cowboys by John Branch last night, which I read based on a recommendation from a similar thread a few weeks ago :) It’s about a ranching and rodeo family from Utah, and has some of the most beautiful, prose-like writing I’ve encountered in a nonfiction book in a long time.
Anon88
Ah that’s my recommendation– so glad you liked it!
Cb
Along that vein, Watching the English by Kate Fox. I regularly think about it after a weird conversation with my in-laws.
Beyond the Wall: East German 1949-1990 by Katja Hoyer. Really fascinating and written like a novel.
Black Girl from Pyongyang by Monica Macias. Writing wasn’t amazing but what an interesting life experience.
anon
I also read that book and loved it!
Nonfiction books that have similarly stuck with me years after my first read:
– They Marched into Sunlight, David Maraniss (juxtaposes the experiences of American soldiers ambushed in Vietnam and campus activists at a protest that happened the same day)
– The Seven Storey Mountain, Thomas Merton (memoir about his journey to becoming a Trappist monk during WWII – the last page is particularly gutting)
Anon
Tim Alberta, The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory
Brian Christian, The Alignment Problem
Rosanna Xia, California Against The Sea
Hannah Ritchie, Not The End of The World
Dara Horn, People Love Dead Jews
New Here
Almost finished listening to One in a Millenial: On Friendship, Fangirls, Feelings, and Fitting In by Kate Kennedy. I am 39 (so just a few years older than her) and relate SO MUCH to this book. Some of it describes my adolescent years in ways I couldn’t articulate myself.
Anon
I’ve read several great non-fiction books lately, which is unusual for me!
Highly recommend:
— The Art Thief
— All The Beauty In The World
— The Country of the Blind
— The Feather Thief
Anon
I also liked Hannah Ritchie’s Not The End of The World
Plus An Immense World by Ed Yong
The Best Minds by Jonathan Rosen
The Cooking Gene by Michael W. Twitty
The Hungry Season by Lisa M. Hamilton
The Invisible Kingdom by Meghan O’Rourke
The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson
and the usuals like anything by Erik Larson, Patrick Radden Keefe, David Grann, and Nathaniel Philbrick
Anon
Much preferred Warmth of Other Suns to Caste.
Anon
I agree!
Anon
Me too. Caste remined me of Hillbilly Elegy – simplification of a complex problem by starting with a conclusion and working backwards to make everything else fit.
Runcible Spoon
+1 re anything by Patrick Radden Keefe
Anon2
The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America’s Great Migration by Isabel Wilkerson
Radically Content: Being Satisfied in an Endlessly Dissatisfied World by Jamie Varon
Anon
Blood at the Root – about racial hatred and violence towards black Americans in all-white Forsyth County in Georgia
The Indifferent Stars Above – incredibly gripping Donner Party non-fiction
Push Back: Guilt in the Age of Natural Parenting (this changed my thinking about many aspects of “natural” childbirth)
River of Doubt – this one is a favorite about Teddy Roosevelt’s near-fatal trip down a then-uncharted river in the Amazon. SO good.
Anon
River of Doubt was SO GOOD!
Carrots
Seabiscuit by Lauren Hillenbrand is great
Know My Name is fantastic
The Boys in the Boat by Daniel James Brown – I’m not into crew at all, but it is so much than just about the rowing aspect
The Man Who Never Was by Ewen Montagu is about Operation Mincemeat during WWII
Gail the Goldfish
+1 to Seabiscuit, and her other book Unbroken is good as well. Also, not in the same vein of more serious nonfiction, but if you like funny travel nonfiction, Bill Bryson’s stuff is hysterical.
Shelle
Brave Hearted: The Women of the American West by Katie Hickman
Girly Drinks by Mallory O’Meara
The Great White Bard by Farah Karim Cooper
Female Tars: Women Aboard Ship in the Age of Sail by Suzanne Stark
Osman’s Dream by Caroline Finkel – thanks to the person on this board who suggested it!
Anonymous
-Becoming Bulletptoof, Evy Poumpouras
-Asperger’s Children, Edith Sheffer
-Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell
–
Anonymous
Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life by William Finnegan
Vicky Austin
Currently reading Queen Victoria’s Matchmaking by Deborah Cadbury to DH when we drive places and we’re both really enjoying it. It’s awesome.
SC
A few favorites I didn’t see mentioned above:
– Agent Josephine: American Beauty, French Hero, British Spy. Josephine Baker was a Black woman born in St. Louis, who became a famous entertainer in Paris nightclubs in the 1930s, and then spent WW2 as a spy for the Allied intelligence agencies. This book focuses on her WW2 service.
– The Woman Who Smashed Codes. About Elizebeth Smith Friedman, a cryptanalyst who learned codebreaking at an eccentric tycoon’s estate, was a founder of the field of cryptography, and served during WW2 decrypting South American Nazi messages.
– How the Word is Passed by Clint Smith. Clint Smith travels to different historical sites associated with slavery and wrestles with their meaning and interpretation.
– The Anthropocene Reviewed by John Green. John Green gives star ratings to sunsets, grass, the Canadian goose, Dr. Pepper, the Hall of Presidents, and more. His take on the mundane is refreshing, often funny, and memorable. It changed the way I see many everyday things, and the way I think about star ratings.
– A Ghost in the Throat by Doireann Ni Griofa. A genre mash-up, as the author simultaneously translates a very old poem, reimagines that poem, and writes a memoir of her life as a new mother while she’s translating the poem. Very literary and beautifully written. For fans of Derry Girls, Siobhán McSweeney (the headmistress) reads the audiobook and does an absolutely superb job.
– Year of the Tiger by Alice Wong. Alice Wong is the founder of Disability Visibility, and this is a memoir of her life and activism. Should be required reading.
Others that might be like Among the Thugs (which I haven’t read, but I’m going with the narrator embedding themselves into a specific community and becoming part of the story).
– Bill Buford’s other books, Dirt and Heat.
– Friday Night Lights.
– Becoming Duchess Goldblatt.
– Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.
– Behind the Beautiful Forevers.
Runcible Spoon
The Wager, by David Grann
Senior Attorney
Just finished this one. Truly harrowing!
Z
How do you like to manage money and savings goals with your partner?
My partner and I have been together for 6 years and are planning to get engaged this year. We have always kept our money separate, with rent coming out of both of our accounts and bills being paid by one and the other pays back half. It isn’t the most efficient system but its worked fine so far.
However, we have big savings goals (wedding, house, etc). We are going to continue to have separate checking accounts where our paychecks will go – I’m thinking we should have a joint checking account for bills and food/household shopping, but how should we manage the savings for those big goals?
Anon
Since you asked for what you “should” do, a 100% combined pot of money is the way to go. You’re making goals together and your money has to work together to make them happen. Anything else is opting for a higher difficulty setting in life.
nuqotw
+1. It is so much easier when there is only one set of accounts to keep track of.
Anonymous
Yup. Starting after you are legally bound
Anon
Hard disagree from someone who is old enough to remember second wave feminism. Yours, mine and ours accounts plus a healthy dose of consulting with a joint financial advisor to set goals.
Anon
Not old enough to remember that but still my recommendation as well. I love my husband and would like to be with him for many years but value having an individual bank account along with our joint accounts.
Anon
THIS.
I am the one who has beat the drum on the post-nup threads ad nauseum: you need a bank account solely in your own name with your own money in it. He walks out on you, gambles it all away, gets addicted to painkillers and spends it all on a high… you need your own money.
I also would never, ever combine finances before marriage but that’s just me. You have no recourse if he grabs it all and runs off with it.
Anon
As a woman who divorced in her very early 30s (now in my late 30s), I will never have only joint accounts. I love my partner, we are talking marriage, and I would absolutely have a joint account or accounts for joint obligations and savings. But my otherwise-not-that-contentious divorce became very very stressful for me when I unexpectedly lost access to my money through the ex husband’s actions.
Anon
I agree with this. Yours, mine and ours. I would never want to put all my money in one account with someone, even my husband. You can decide how much to put in the joint account every month but your paycheck first goes into an individual account at a different bank. Protect yourself first.
Josie P
I agree. It’s easier when you both start out with nothing so no premarital assets of note. DH and I jointed up accounts when we moved in together (2 years before we got married) and it has been smooth sailing. We didn’t get a prenup either. YMMV if you have more assets, but we were 23/26 at that point.
anon
I disagree. DH and I share goals and don’t beancount without actually combining our accounts. It means both of us have a little extra security in a very insecure world. It’s also a bit of extra protection in case of identity theft.
anonymous
+1 – getting married is becoming an economic unit. It’s more complicated if it’s a second marriage with pre-existing kids, but absent that kind of complication, one pot is the best way to align your future goals together.
Anonymous
Ultra hard disagree. Keep 1 account for yourself and 1 join account. Contribute to the join in proportion to your income to cover monthly bills. Each save 10% of your income plus max in your 401k’s.
100% transparency in how much you each have.
nuqotw
Joint HYSA with agreed amounts of money from each of you directed into it whenever you get paid. You can probably set up a dedicated direct deposit from each of your paychecks.
Anon
We prioritized a joint credit card for spending (paid out of our individual checking accounts) and joint savings and brokerage accounts. We eventually opened a joint checking account too, but we pretty much have only used it for rent/mortgage payments. Our number one savings priority has always been retirement, so we discuss workplace withholding and IRA contributions together (keeping in mind saving for a house and emergency fund) and then funnel any extra money to the savings or brokerage account.
Z
Joint credit cart is a good idea! Is there one that you prefer?
Anon
We just have some basic one from Chase that does 5% back on rotating categories and 1% on everything else. I have no idea if there are better ones out there now (we’ve had for a long time). The important thing to know is that there’s no such thing as a truly joint credit card. It gets issued to one person and the other is an authorized user, so you don’t want to depend on it if you’re just the authorized user and should always maintain your own card(s).
anonshmanon
+1 to every single word of this.
SC
+1. My husband and I have 4 “joint” credit cards but each have 2 accounts where we are primary.
Our main card gives us 2% back on everything.
The cards with the highest limits are with our banks where we have cash. In my experience, Chase has been stingy with credit card limits. Whatever card or combinations of cards you have, you want to keep your credit utilization below 30%. Our Chase card alone wouldn’t be enough for us.
Anon
I should add that even though we keep individual checking accounts for logistical reasons too complicated to get into here, we actually consider all of our money to be “our money” and we even have both of our names on the “individual” accounts, so they’re not really individual accounts, just accounts that the other person never logs into so we maintain some level of privacy on day to day spending (we also have our own credit cards we pay out of those accounts). But we both prefer saving to spending and we discuss all major money decisions together so this is pretty easy to manage.
test run
Similar setup with my husband and we use the chase freedom unlimited for just about everything since it gets us decent points on groceries and restaurants, which constitute a big chunk of our joint expenses (only pain is that it doesn’t work for international travel, which I put on another card). I pair it with my chase sapphire preferred so I can roll the points over for travel. And yes to what the other poster said re: it’s not truly a “joint” card – it’s under my name with my husband as an authorized user.
anon
There is no answer. It really varies based on how much money/assets/debt you have going into the marriage, what the relative differences in income are and how much you want to maintain the “mine” pot of things/ make separate property community property. The easiest way is to have one giant pot of money, but there are any number of reasons why that won’t make sense for you.
Anon
We have a combined joint account that we each contribute towards and use for joint expenses – house, utilities, kids, insurance, dates. We’ll just periodically have a conversation about if we need to increase or decrease our contributions to the joint account based on: is there something we’re saving for, or have expenses gone up, or has income changed. We each contribute a percentage of our income.
Anon
If you want to keep separate accounts, I recommend putting a percentage of each person’s income into a joint savings account (not equal dollar amounts; you are an economic unit). I also think that other expenses should be paid the same way.
That said and while I understand the appeal of having one’s own money in the event of divorce or betrayal, I caution against the easy lure of “what is mine is mine and what is yours in yours and we split expenses.” Because that works fine for a two people who are both working full time and earning roughly the same amount. It works far less well when one spouse makes significantly more than the other. Remember that women are usually the ones who take a hit to their careers from having children and are just as likely to become disabled.
Miz Swizz
We have a separate savings account for our emergency fund/savings goals. It’s through Ally Bank and it’s the best rate I’ve seen for a savings account. We also have a joint account and do most of our daily spending with a credit card that we pay off each month. The credit card is nice because the fraud protection is better than any checking account I’ve had.
Anon
That is exactly our system.
anon
Need to rev the engine (if you know what I mean). So, my partner broke down yesterday and said that our current lack of intimacy is unsustainable. This came as an “I don’t think I want to date you” type of statement and then general sadness. He’s not even asking for “gardening” (which is rare in and of itself) but physical affection generally. We’ve talked about this in the past and I’m trying. Or I think I am.
I’m very attracted to him and we have a lovely relationship. This has been an ongoing point of confusion from him especially because before we moved in together all of the engines in me revved and often. It’s almost like a switch flipped when we moved in together about a year ago.
I’m in therapy (have been for a very very long time) and know that there are some trauma aspects to this (abandonment mostly). I’m on various meds for depression/anxiety and ADHD. Have a mirena but have for a while now.
There have been a lot of major changes in the last year. He and dog moved in. I was fired. I started a new very big job. I’ve gained a good amount of weight. So, I know stress is part of it. I haven’t been doing great at the new job for various reasons but it’s gotten a lot better and I feel more confident there. My ADHD meds were changed last week and I am hopeful with that.
I want to be more affectionate and get on a regular cadence of gardening. I’m just not sure how to get it going. Shows that have gardening or tension build-up are doing nothing even though in the past they’ve always gotten me a bit excited. I feel like the longer without the gardening the harder it is to get into it again.
Any advice??
Cb
Would you both be open to sensate focus therapy? It felt a bit goofy at times but it has radically transformed our lives.
Anonymous
This seems like a great place to start.
OP
Never heard of it. I’ll look into. Thanks!
Anonymous
Just start doing it. You don’t need to wait for all the stars to align perfectly to do it. Put a dot on your calendar once a week that means “initiate intimacy”.
Anon
Disagree, OP clearly has physical and trauma issues that take priority. OP, never have sex you don’t want to have. You’re worth more than that. I think therapy and medication changes are a good place to start. Maybe the timing of the relationship isn’t going to align perfectly with your own journey – that’s a risk. But put yourself first.
op
Thank you for your kindness here.
The trauma is more about abandonment/feelings of worthiness. Physical trauma isn’t something coming up, thankfully. I do agree with your statements and appreciate you. The relationship timing is the best it’s been in any relationship – just a lot happening at once in a 9 m month period of time. I think “Just start” is where I’m at.
Anon
Definitely bring this up with the doctor who is prescribing your meds. There are meds that are notorious for this and others that are thought to help.
Anonymous
+1 antidepressants often have sexual side effects
Anon
+2
Anon
+2
BeenThatGuy
Sounds like you’ve got a lot going on. One thing that resonates with me is the Mirena IUD. Get that taken out and have a Paraguard put in. I had a Mirena years ago and was having some out of the ordinary severe mood swings, acne and weight gain. I tried everything to fix the issues but it wasn’t until I had the Mirena removed that I finally saw a change. It might not be the end all solution for you, but it’s worth a shot.
anon
OP here – never thought about that. I wonder why Mirena was recommended. I know part of the reason was because of family history with blood clots. I’ll talk with my dr about this. Thank you!
Anon
I have zero drive with any type of hormonal birth control.
Anon
Same. I wouldn’t even know how effective it is as bc since it’s like medically induced celibacy.
Anon
+1 I had Mirena for several months, and it gave me major mood swings, and I had unusually heavy periods. Everyone reacts differently ofc but this could be a factor.
Anonymous
Super late to this but my Mirena made me a mess. My original gyn that inserted it said that was impossible. Went to a new gyn, had it removed and almost instantly felt better, had more energy, etc.
Anon
Respectfully, you said his tone was “I don’t think I want to date you.” You should pursue what you need to be fulfilled and happy – but is there something left of this relationship to save, or is it better to look ahead to the next one?
OP
This has been an ongoing topic for us for a little bit. I reacted to a touch yesterday (innocuous not even for gardening) that hurt him. This lack of physical closeness is really hard for him from a confidence standpoint. And I get this. I hate that it’s hurting him. He’s not a prideful person or chest-beating type of guy. He does truly love me (and I him) and he is one of the sweetest, kindest people I’ve ever known. We have a ton of fun, we make each other laugh, and we’re incredibly supportive of each other.
I am VERY happy in this relationship and he says that he is as well, but for this. It wasn’t his tone. Those were his words but he’s also not the best at communicating his thoughts. It was a little pointed and, well, harsh. His love language is physical touch and acts of service. Mine are more acts of service. So, I think that’s part of it. He had a very very bad prior marriage. They didn’t garden for like 9 years. This brings up a lot of that for him. The biggest concern we both have is related to the switch flipping when he moved in.
It’s difficult to give full context when posting like this. So, I don’t want to come off as defensive. If I was miserable in the relationship as a whole, this would be a different type of post. Same if I thought this was irreparable. This is literally our biggest challenge. There’s not been anything else that causes red flags or hurt feelings. It’s all more like “please put the dishes in the dishwasher for the love of god” lol.
Thank you for the comment, though. Truly.
Anon
You reacted badly to him being affectionate? Do you not wanting him touching you? If you don’t, then that’s a huge red flag.
Anon
+1
Anon
I think people do really differ in the amount of touch they enjoy and I have some sympathy for this reaction. I don’t think reacting badly to touch is inherently a red flag, though obviously it’s a problem when you’re incompatible in this area. Both my husband and I have some issues with chronic pain and there are times that pretty much any touch makes my skin crawl, because it’s just too much sensory input and having someone leaning on me makes hard to position myself in a pain-free position (I’m pretty fidgety). Luckily we both understand this feeling and don’t take it as a personal rejection.
anon
I think context matters. My husband and I have had compatibility challenges on this front, and OP reminds me a lot of myself early in my relationship with my husband. (We’ve now been married 14 years.)
I often react negatively to unexpected physical touch. So I hate it if my husband walks up behind me and starts massaging my shoulders, or if he gooses me in the kitchen, or really anything I don’t see coming. I get that that’s normal for other couples, but I often lash out in a very negative way when touched by surprise.
I also hate certain types of touches. In particular, I hate back and forth motions, even a casual arm caress.
It honestly took a while, and some difficult conversations, to identify which touches bother me and why. It hurts my husband’s feelings when I react negatively to “normal” touches, but he avoids them now, and I’ve learned to remind him more gently for the most part. And we can both stick to touches that I like.
Sunshine
DH is huge on physical affection. He’s like a puppy – wants to be right next to me and snuggling whenever we are doing something like watching TV. I could take it or leave it and, on my own, snuggling would never occur to me. So I make an effort to sit down more closely to him on the couch, put my hand on this thigh, massage his head, etc. He also is late to get out of bed while I’m an early riser. So after I exercise and shower, I’ll often go see if he’s awake, sit down on the bed, and talk to him while also placing my hands somewhere on him or resting my head on his chest. These are the two times during the day when I can remember to make an effort and am available. When he initiates snuggling, I always engage unless I have a reason not to. And he doesn’t initiate it if he knows I’m on my way out the door or have something else I need to do.
None of this is gardening-adjacent or a warm-up to gardening. In fact, we don’t garden a lot. DH just loves to snuggle. He really is a puppy. We have been married for 10 years.
OP
This sounds like my guy! Thank you for sharing. It’s really helpful. He’s the same and has flat-out said it’s mostly not about the gardening. I mean, gardening is certainly part of it and how I know to be physically affectionate. I didn’t grow up in nor have I been in relationships with much physical affection. It was withheld a lot from me as a kid. As an adult, I’ve had several unhealthy relationships where gardening was the only form of physical affection. So, this is something that doesn’t come naturally to me. Concerning gardening, I would love for it to happen at a more regular cadence and I know it would be something that he appreciates.
Sunshine
Your statement that phsyical affection was withheld from you as a child makes me want to hug your younger self. I want to wrap that little girl up and tell her she is loved and adored. I assume you’ve told your boyfriend that this is your background, and he has some context.
DH and I joke about his puppy nature. It’s right out there in the open. The jokes work because they’re said with 100% love. He knows I absolutely adore him. And if he wants to snuggle in the evening, he will flat out say “snugglie time?” And the answer is usually sure. If your boyfriend said something like that to you, would you be up for snuggle time? If you would be, maybe he can initiate snuggle time knowing that it doesn’t occur to you but you’re happy to engage with him? I actually thanked DH last week for bringing more physical affection to our marriage than I would have because I think it’s good for both of us even though it isn’t something I crave.
Honestly, sometimes I think “man, this snuggle thing takes forever.” But also DH is super happy putting his head in my lap while I massage his head with one hand and read on my phone with the other – sometimes I read out loud to him, which he loves, and sometimes we are just quiet. So when I feel like I’d rather be reading and he wants to snuggle, then that’s how we work it out.
What I took from your original post is that you want to keep this relationship going. Your boyfriend has said his needs are not being met, and you want to meet those needs. While he probably could have phrased that more softly, and perhaps he has in the past and felt like he needed to be more direct. The fact that he can say his needs are not being met and what those needs are is actually really health. I don’t want to have to guess what my SO needs to feel loved, and I also don’t make him guess. All of my comments are made with that lense.
Anon
+1 with an asterisk. IME after I have tried all of this and I just really and truly do not want to touch the person, it is an indication the relationship is done. I came from a family who showed zero affection and I truly did not understand why people wanted it. I did a lot of work and now, when I am with someone I truly like, I love being affectionate BUT there are still times I have to remind myself that being affectionate is something people do on purpose. It’s just my inner make up even though I have done a lot of work to overcome it so I can engage in meaningful relationships with others who desire affection.
Anywho, I say all of that bc if you try everything you are willing to try, including just doing it, and you aren’t feeling it as you once were, I’d consider exploring whether the relationship was truly right for me in therapy. But I don’t think you are there yet. I hope you find something that works though!!
Anon
I’m divorced and remarried. It took a long time for me to admit that my first marriage was over, but one of the final nails in the coffin was getting the ick about him touching me at all.
Anon
+1
OP
Thank you. This really resonated.
I’ve been in a relationship where there was “the ick” and all physical affection felt gross. So, I know what that looks/feels like for me. This is different.
So, thank you. I needed that validation.
Anonymous
He doesn’t want to date you so I’d focus on figuring out a breakup.
Anon
+1
Sunshine
I disagree. I think he doesn’t want to be in a relationship without physical affection. It sounds like he has stated his needs several times and those needs are not being met. But OP seems to want to meet those needs and is trying to figure out how. He has told her what he needs. Assuming all other things are good here, then the ball is in OP’s court to meet those needs. And, if she cannot, then he doesn’t believe this is the right relationship for him. But if she can meet those needs, then it sounds like everything else is going very well.
Anon
IUD was an absolute libido killer for me, and also made me depressed. I had different results with the pill.
Anonymous
Any recommendations for a really great meal (lunch) in midtown Manhattan for two adventurous eaters? It’s my friend’s first time in the city and we will be between Grand Central and the Intrepid. I’d love to find a great restaurant for a memorable lunch, but my city knowledge is outdated and all I’m coming up with is the usual Times Square suspects. We are open to any cuisine, moderate (for NY) price is good but willing to splurge on something special.
Anonymous
Not sure what qualifies as adventurous in your mind, but Urban Hawker is a good food court with plenty of Southeast Asian options. If you want a sit-down place, Chalong has delicious and authentic Thai food.
Anon
Hangawi
anon
Sen Sakana (Peruvian/Japanese)
Anon
ready to get my will and estate docs notarized….I did them through MetLife benefit through work. Would like advice on the 2 witnesses + notary….will my bank or credit union provide witnesses and notary? We are AAA members and web site says to bring your witnesses with you. Not sure I have 2 people outside of family members that I can bring as witnesses….recs please
Davis
Your bank/credit union will totally help and the other people in the office can be the witnesses. That’s a great spot to do it!
Anon
Just ask a couple of people at AAA who are waiting for other services. Ditto if you get it done at the bank.
Anon
Your office likely has notary (often an office manager or executive level EA is) and you can use coworkers as witnesses.
Anon
Favorite places to get a haircut/color in Philadelphia? Feeling blah and need a refresh.