Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Cooper Blazer
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
As a gal from the Northeast, I’ve always found the California-chic style of Jenni Kayne to be somewhat out of my wheelhouse. Of course, I’d love to wear a white linen dress to the farmers market, but the majority of my outfits need to take into account that I live in a place with four seasons, and sometimes they all occur in the same day.
This sweater blazer has the comfy, cozy Jenni Kayne style that I aspire to, but is maybe a bit more practical for my day-to-day life. Pair with trousers and your favorite work-appropriate T-shirt for an easy office look.
The blazer is $595 at Jenni Kane and comes in sizes XS-XXL.
Looking for something on the other end of the scale? Our favorite women's blazers under $50 as of 2025 are below — if you're open to going up to $75, also check out these options from Amazon, J.Crew Factory, Old Navy, and this Uniqlo blazer.
Sales of note for 7/25/25:
- Nordstrom – The Anniversary Sale is open for everyone — here's our roundup!
- Ann Taylor – 25% off your purchase, including new arrivals + up to 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 10% off new womenswear with code
- Eloquii – $19+ select styles + extra 45% off all sale
- J.Crew – Up to 40% off select cashmere + up to 50% off summer styles + up to 70% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 60% off cashmere + extra 15% off $100+ and extra 20% off $125+
- M.M.LaFleur – Daily flash sales — on 7/25 it's 25% off dresses! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Rothy's – Final Few: up to 50% off
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – Extra 60% off marked down pants, jeans, shorts and more, and extra 50% off all other markdowns
I posted last week about paying off parent’s credit card debt. Next up is to figure out how much social security money they are owed in retirement. I am only 30 years old, so not really sure where to begin? I’ve read SSA.gov is the first step? Any personal experience is helpful. They don’t have any login credentials yet, every bill they have ever received has been via USPS.
They should receive an annual statement with this information. They used to send them in the mail, but maybe now it’s only online? I get mine online.
They will be getting a letter notifying them of the COLA adjustment for next year. If they have not signed up for online access it will come by regular US mail.
I used to get a statement in the mail, then stopped getting them for years. So, recently, I signed up for an account online. All my info was there, including the ability to check to see if the numbers were correct, and a way to refute them if I believed they weren’t (who knows if this works). The account clearly showed what my SS amounts would be, depending on the year I took them. So yes, get accounts for them, and you should see what you need.
SSA.gov is super easy.
+1. You’re right that this is the place to go. Just create a login for them with an email and you get access to all the basic data.
I wouldn’t try doing it for them. I’m pretty sure that you now need to show ID and take a selfie and do two factor identification to their phone, so you want it to be tied to their devices, not yours.
everyone should register an account for themselves because if you don’t, someone else could do it with your stolen information.
+1 My experience was super smooth, although it was a while ago and maybe it’s gotten more complicated since then. OP, I think it would be worth going to them and helping them set up their accounts.
Re: weekend thread, it’s bizarre that some posters swoop in with a long-range anxiety diagnosis whenever anyone posts about weighing a decision. Is that really what people think anxiety is? Because this is how absurd those posts come off to me:
OP: “We’re remodeling and deciding between gas and electric stoves. I prefer gas for cooking but I’ve been hearing electric is healthier and we don’t have great ventilation. What did you do/consider?”
Response: “I can’t imagine going through life worried my stove is going to kill me. If you’re reasonably affluent, any stove is fine. What’s this really about? I encourage you to seek treatment instead of a new stove.”
OP: “We’re moving soon and there are two school options, one very large public with a poor reputation and one private with a great reputation that we can afford. We’re supporters of public schools, but would you consider going private in this case?”
Response: “This is a desperate attempt to control everything in an uncertain world. Newsflash from someone older and wiser, you can’t control every factor in your kids’ lives. Modern parenting is unhinged. You need therapy and to stop exploding your anxiety on your poor kids.”
I could go on. It would be amusing for being so out there but I think most OPs would find it annoying and non-responsive. I think there’s also a bit of that “I’m too cool to care about anything” persona coming in, but not caring was never cool.
It drives me nuts that lately any rational though or consideration is considered anxiety. As someone who actually has real anxiety, it is very much not thinking through a decision or doing something safely.
I recently had to swing by my house to grab a helmet to go scootering and I was accused of having “crazy anxiety” as if following the law and taking a basic safety precaution is so beyond the pale.
Had the same thing happen when I insisted that my MIL not put the baby to sleep on her stomach.
+1. It’s gotten out of control. Do these individuals not know what anxiety is, or are they using a message board to release their aggression? It is super strange.
In my experience, people who are super-eager to diagnose others with mental illness are generally delusional.
Only semi-joking
Something something mote in thy sisters eye but not the beam in thine own eye.
There is one commenter here who responds to everything with “get therapy” and another who’s like “therapy is useless.” I tend to agree more with the second commenter. I think it’s useful for trauma and learning to overcome/live with it, but not for the average day to day B S or your parents didn’t hug you enough.
Also asking fashion questions on a fashion blog is now anxiety.
I mean, yes, but sometimes there is so much anxiety built into the questions it makes you pause for a second. Fashion is supposed to be fun and expressive. Yes, you can signal to the world with it, but if you’re only using it to signal without any of the actual joy of it–it reeks of anxiety. Sometimes that needs to be called out.
I just want to know what brands work for pear shapes.
*snort*
It is really not a sign of mental illness to not particularly enjoy fashion, let alone societally dictated fashions like work wear. (I promise that plenty of people are fun and expressive on the weekend and are only signaling with the clothes they wear to work! Also plenty of happy and mentally well people just don’t care about fashion and find joy elsewhere!)
I guess I’m thinking of the commenters who cannot make a fashion decision and then always ask something weird about Old Money. Like very few of us are going to signal “old money” with our fashion choices, which is fine, because most of us aren’t and are just trying to get through the day in what’s appropriate for our lives and maybe makes us smile.
It’s the commenters trying to pass off as something they aspire to but are in real danger of getting it wrong.
I think this is just what social mobility can feel like? You grow up wearing perfectly fine clothing for people who work at a factory or inside someone else’s home, and then you go to college and get an office job and realize no one there dresses the way anyone you grew up around dressed, even when all dressed up for a religious service or a formal event. I don’t think people are generally trying to pass as Old Money; I think they’re trying to dress appropriately and not stand out in contexts where the cultural expectations were set and established by Old Money. Not every choice is appropriate or fun, and on some level it’s literally all aspirational and trying to pass if straight up none of the appropriate clothing is from your culture or background.
10:29, I totally get where you’re coming from. However, I found this blog well over a decade ago because I knew I needed help fitting in! My parents’ jobs did not require office-appropriate clothing. I had very few people in my life I could go to for a vibe check. I was honestly scared of getting it wrong! So, I sort of adopted an “old money” mindset because I figured there was less chance of getting it wrong and making a fashion faux pas. It’s fair to say that I had some anxiety about work fashion in my 20s and into my early 30s. (Also, I really didn’t have an innate sense of style, so I almost needed to copy things until I figured it out for myself, which takes TIME and money.)
Yeah unfortunately it’s not a thing for prosecutors to come to work in ripped jeans and heeled combat boots, so my work wear is an appropriate costume. If I find joy in clothing it’s on the weekends. Weekdays is satisfaction in dressing myself appropriately, no more than that.
Hmm, I don’t know about the joy aspect – for me, I use clothes + hair + general grooming as basically a “tool” – I want to put as little time and mental effort into it as possible, while appearing competent & put together, so that people will take me seriously (especially for work clothes). It’s like Marie Kondo buying dish soap – it doesn’t actually need to be the light of my life, it just needs to accomplish the end goal & not
take up too much space. I don’t think that’s a “better” approach than caring about fashion as a means of self expression, but I wouldn’t characterize it as anxious. (And I’m grateful when I can learn from people who ~do~ find joy in experimenting with clothes and fashion and such, and can give me good advice about what they’ve learned – so I don’t have to do all the experimenting myself!)
I think there may be some projection from people who are themselves pathologically anxious but are managing it with hardcore denial. If someone is acting as though all advice from any source involves some type of fearmongering, my guess is that they’re committed to some kind of calm-mongering. But for people without anxiety, it’s just not a big psychological ordeal to weigh pros and cons when making a decision. I know I simply don’t have a desperate psychological need to believe that everything will always be fine that I have to reassert whenever it’s threatened by someone else’s risk analysis.
I like the term calm-mongering. I sort of got that from the commenter over the weekend “la la la, I think the world is great!” I mean, good for you? I hope that bubble never pops, but objectively things are happening right now that will not end of being great for lots of people. Stop trying to pretend that we all have the same protective bubble that you do.
I don’t think that person was saying that “lala, the world is great.” I think they were saying “the world’s always been shitty, and this time in history is comparatively less shitty in many ways than other times in history.” That’s not a “bubble”; that’s an awareness of history.
Some women love nothing more than dismissing other women as crazy.
Co-sign. I truly think it is one person who is just so miserable in life that they snap at everything. But beyond that, I think we have to stop questioning other women’s questions.
I generally agree, but there’s a difference between specific situational anxiety and chronic, clinical anxiety. If a person is excessively worrying, projecting out into the future, and unable to make a decision to move forward, that can be anxiety. Like, spiraling that your toddler won’t get into an Ivy for college if you don’t choose exactly the right preschool and elementary school path.
It doesn’t mean the person needs meds or therapy, but she does need to identify this as anxiety talking and take steps to compartmentalize, process, and move on.
It’s unhelpful to conflate this with an anxiety disorder, but it’s okay to call out irrational, looping thoughts.
That wasn’t happening in the weekend post in the slightest.
I didn’t check the thread after Friday afternoon, I’m commenting on the general trend of “anxiety” posting and giving an example
Ah ok. I thought you meant the Ivy League spiraling in relation to a poster who said private school was under consideration but not for aiming at traditional success.
I agree. I think it is helpful to kindly call out cognitive distortions and looping thoughts where you see them. I do *not* think it’s helpful to make a standalone post about how silly other women are for having cognitive distortions or looping thoughts where you imply you could never have those thoughts because you’re so calm.
The problem isn’t the posters with questions. It’s the person/people who repeatedly write long rambling posts that don’t contain any actual questions but are full of random concerns, usually about college. I genuinely don’t understand what those people are looking for, since they can’t seem to articulate anything they want answered and it’s not even clear whether the situations they’re talking about have actually happened or are relevant to them or their family. To me, that’s anxiety. Once you have a specific situation that needs to be dealt with, then ask away.
+1. And they never engage with the comments. It’s like they’re just journaling their anxieties and dumping it here.
I’m not sure if it reads that way because it’s written in a panic or the person has problems with literacy, but it’s disturbing to read. I think it should be considered spam.
That’s one distinctive poster and it’s become a sad situation, but it doesn’t really justify the knee-jerk responses on what are clearly specific questions.
+1
Right! Some of her questions can actually be answered! But there’s always a commenter quick to shut it down with “this is anxious poster, get help” when maybe someone with experience in that day’s specific spiral can offer useful perspective.
Does she ever reply to the helpful responses? No. It’s not clear that those are doing anything for here. She might not be reading.
Well, in that case I don’t think it’s helpful for anyone to jump in with a specific response because it’s just going to be another weird hypothetical the next day and as others have mentioned, she doesn’t come back to engage with what’s offered.
ISO clear glass pillar candle holder. My candles are 6″ tall and 3″ diameter. The candle holder I have is not flat on the bottom, so the candles just tilt over, hit the side, and look silly. Is this an a ma z o n ask or another source you can recommend? TIA!
If you’re open to spending time doing this, thrift stores are overrun with vases and candle holders. Take your candle with you and try different kinds.
Unfortunately I live in a thrift store desert, the closest is like 40 minutes. I’d rather spend $ than time.
Then I think your best bet is the River site, either most popular or highest reviewed. This seems like a really low-stakes question – your candles will look great
can you use a little filler (pebbles, etc) at the bottom to fix the one you have?
Or sand, or coffee beans, or glass marble?
All home decor eventually end up at a thrift store.
I’d go to goodwill.
Depending on the bottom curve of the holder, Museum putty may work to hold your candles straight up.
This, or stick-um candle adhesive.
Even easier- light candle, dribble some wax from the candle into the holder, smoosh candle into warm wax and adjust.
In addition to thrift stores, I don’t think I’ve ever been to an estate sale that didn’t have something that would work!
Crate and Barrel is my go to for candle holders now that Pier 1 is no more. They have plenty for pillar candles.
My HomeGoods has acres of these. Sometimes Marshalls or TJMaxx does too.
+1 to Homegoods.
Yes, this is Amazon. It will be like $5 and 10 seconds of your time.
You mean like a hurricane candle holder? Mine are I think from Crate & Barrel and don’t have this issue. Or if you want quality made in the USA, there’s Simon Pierce, but they are super expensive (one of my mom’s greatest estate sale finds was a Simon Pierce glass christmas tree for like $5)
Credit card maximizers – What are your thoughts about the new fee increase for Chase Sapphire Reserve?
I use the lounge access several times a year, I do book flights through Chase travel including for work. The Doordash and Lyft credits are nice to have for sure, but not essential. The new price seems really high.
I also have a Capitol One Venture One. I’m thinking about updating that to a Venture X Rewards since the fee is lower.
I don’t have any other authorized users but I do use the lounge guest passes regularly.
I’m dropping back down. The new benefits are not things I want.
*Thinking about dropping down for Chase and getting the Capitol One travel card instead since I still want lounge access
We’re dropping down.
We fly almost exclusively United, so I got the United Club card instead – about the same annual cost as the old fee for Reserve. If mostly fly United, I’d recommend since it gets you PQP.
+1 if you’re at all loyal to one airline, airline cards are generally better. Since you get lounge access but also work towards status on the airline. Plus other perks like early boarding, checked bags, etc.
Keeping the card, benefits are worth it and most of the annual fee is refunded through benefits anyway.
Same. We charge all of our ridiculously expensive travel on that card and get back a lot of points, which we use for more travel, so I feel like it will still be worth it.
We fly AA almost exclusively since we live at a hub, and often (esp. bc husband travels 4-5x per year for work), and so have found the elite Citi AA card to be a lot more useful for the money – lounge access and bags pay for themselves.
Oh and like the United poster above, cc spend gets you both “flying” miles and status (Loyalty Points). We wouldn’t get to top status on flight spend alone and having a separate good help desk alone is priceless with disruptions, plus early boarding (bin space) and periodic upgrades (always nice!)
Mother of Bride here – I’ve offered to bring the “ICE” box to the morning gathering of bride and bridesmaids as they get ready for a pretty low-key wedding. Here is what I have on my list so far: umbrellas, in case it is raining, to use on way to car; fashion tape, safety pins, advil/tylenol, water, anti-chafing and blister sticks, Tideout, kleenex, hair spray and fixative, magic eraser, wet wipes, and some granola bars.
What am I missing? What is the one thing you never would have thought you needed, but did?
I’d add in bandaids, a mini flashlight (can help if you need to look for something that was dropped and rolls under a piece of furniture), clear nail polish, a single sheet of rough grit sandpaper (if anybody’s wearing shoes for the first time and they are slippery, can rough up the soles a bit) and a small tube of super glue (use for emergency jewelry repairs).
Champagne!
But actually, spray deodorant and q-tips.
You can’t control everything. I think you need therapy.
JK! Referencing the post above. l don’t have anything constructive to ad, other than congrats on your daughter’s wedding!
OP here – you made me bust out laughing! Thank you!
Mouthwash. And not just for the bride!
Electrolyte powder/gummies, headache and anti-nausea meds, a small sewing kit (there always seems to be something that needs a few quick stitches to stay put), and bobby pins. Good job thinking of food! We had a heavy breakfast at my parents house plus I stuck granola bars in each of my bridesmaids bags and the groomsmen were very jealous ;)
Enjoy the day!
Bandaids, lint roller
A small sewing kit.
My bridesmaid’s dress ripped as we were getting ready. My MIL sewed her into it. It was beyond safety pin territory.
I guess I’d just say – if the venue is less than two blocks from a Target or Walgreens, I’d skip the less likely stuff and save some money! As a MOH, I ran into a Target to get a bridesmaid moleskin, and it was totally fine; took about 10 minutes, and most of that was walking there and back!
White chalk (for bridal gown stains), dental floss, mints, needles plus thread that matches the wedding party’s outfits, and if you’re doing outdoor photos in the heat then p-nty liners. The bridesmaids can wear them during photos, sweat into them, and then take them off before the ceremony. This is a weird thing that people are always grateful for.
In case food or bev is not accounted for – non-alcoholic drinks (bubbly water?) and straws. Unpopular opinion time- I wanted to be 100% sober for the ceremony – it is fun and exciting but also, a serious commitment! – and also if I started drinking mimosas at 10am I would feel icky and over-sugared by the wedding.
Where are they getting ready? Somewhere like at home where you have mouthwash and toothbrushes and stuff? Before I did my lips I wanted to make sure my teeth were PERFECTLY clean!
Bobby pins for all different hair colors
And something to untangle jewelry – pins? I remember a bridesmaid session where we were all untangling necklaces
Earring backs
Clear bra straps?
If someone is bringing matching necklaces for bridesmaids, put the chain through a straw and fasten – they won’t get tangled.
That’s a great travel tip! You just made my work travel packing easier!
Make up removal wipes for make up adjustments.
This is going to get me caught in moderation but the n!pple covers or tape.
Bobby pins
Pepto chewables
Towel, sticky things to put at the heel of shoes in case they rub, box of chocolates (some sort of treats), Benadryl (always in my emergency bag), canned coffee (something with caffeine) and the multi-prong phone charging wire.
Handheld clothes steamer, tic tacs, and a Stichy can often solve problems that fashion tape and needle and thread can’t!
Small pair of scissors.
Blister bandaids and water/energy drinks and some pastries.
A few feminine hygiene protects, nail clippers, and a file.
White duct tape. I also brought a slew of cleaning supplies, toilet paper, paper towels, etc. I thought I was low on anxiety bc I skipped the “instructions” to bring extra socks and underwear for everyone. I only used bandaids and a tide pen.
I had a beautiful shorter cotton jacket in a light mint green that worked so well as a counterweight for my ruddy skin (I’m a winter with rosacea, fun!). It was from Elie Tahari and was just so pretty. Even the lining was pretty. After more than a decade of loyal warm weather service, it has acquired a stain that the cleaners cannot get out. Any leads on a similar replacement? It’s a jacket (not a blazer), waist-length (important for me as a shorter person). I wore it with pants and skirts and it just was a workhorse. If I wait a minute, fall things are likely to pop into stores in different fabrics and color schemes and it will be hot where I live through October, so I could wear it now vs waiting a year. Thanks!
Since it’s cotton have you tried giving it a soak at home in washing soda/borax/dish soap? It’s the magic combo for me.
Need a little more information: zipper, buttons, round neck, or collar? Is this more like outerwear or part of a suit?
I might try stain removal myself since I think I’m better than the cleaners.
Can you try taking a photo with Google Lens or something similar to look for similar jackets? If you find something new, and may be more in style.
You could also look for the exact same jacket on ebay or poshmark (I found https://www.ebay.com/itm/156094156372 which is waist length and has the cute lining, but has other features you probably would have mentioned if it were the right jacket).
Are you looking for an exact replacement (meaning second hand sites) or a newer version of that same piece?
OP here and something similar but new in 2025 (so could try on / return). The item is from before 2007 now that I think of it.
This is one of those rare times I wish we could load pics. Having said that, have you loaded an image into google images and had it look for you?
I would take it to a good seamstress. She can use the existing garment to make a pattern for you, and then make you another one that is very similar. And, since you seems to like the general style, you can have her make several, in colors you prefer. Getting high quality cotton fabric for garment can be a bit of a challenge, but she probably has ways. (Otherwise, if you happen to be in Europe this summer, the quality of garment fabric in fabric stores is generally much higher. More focus on clothing, less on quilting, in Europe). (I did this for my wedding dress – I took my dress, that I wanted my wedding dress modeled after, and the seamstress made a pattern for me, and created the dress. All for about $1000. Jackets can be as difficult as a dress, so it might not be much less expensive, buuuuut….then you’ll have a pattern and can have a million new ones sewn.)
A custom jacket will be a lot of money, and sewing one off pieces (even with a pattern) is still substantially more expensive than something made in a production line. Things like swapping threads, machines, cutting (with scissors, not a cutting machine!) all really adds up, especially if there are premium finished like binding involved.
Stalk down the same jacket secondhand.
That’s what I would try first.
Failing that, I really like Cinq a Sept jackets and there are a lot of them available secondhand.
This. See what’s on Poshmark first. I also like the seamstress/tailor idea since you said the jacket was such a workhorse—won’t be cheap, but cost per wear would make it worth it. Plus they could make similar jackets for you in other colors/fabrics.
Evereve has a couple of short jackets in a light green.
Gilt has modern Elie Tahari for under $ 150 for a jacket. They have some fun summer weight tweeds in current colors.
Help me figure out where to shop? I started a new job that’s more casual than I’m used to. The other women wear a lot of J Crew Factory-type clothes (cheery patterns, some ruffles). I’m more minimalist / tailored in my style – left to my own devices, I’d wear a lot of blazers, with jeans, silk button downs, or non-denim pants but they all read as too formal in my environment.
What’s the minimalist, J Crew Factory equivalent of Theory and Vince? COS has never fit me well.
Eileen Fisher, Max Mara and Akris?
WHBM is sort of budget All Saints (for some pieces).
This is one of the most entertaining takes ever spotted here.
BR Factory
Second this.
Thirding. I don’t like their “forever sweaters” (SO thin) but everything else I’ve gotten from them is great.
Eileen Fisher — there’s a ton available second hand.
Can’t you just wear what you’d wear elsewhere without the blazer?
How about Aritzia, & Other Stories, Mango? Banana Republic has been really good lately. Quality is hit or miss, but Abercrombie too.
Hobbs has some nice easy-to-launder tops that feel nicer than JCF but read a less formal than a silk blouse.
You can buy minimalist things at J Crew Factory and BR factory. I buy a lot of their sweater shells, cropped pants, short sleeeve sweaters, and button downs. I wear regular J Crew button downs and jeans all the time.
+1. I stay away from the more twee stuff at JCF, but I feel like I’ve gotten a lot of great basics there.
+1 JCF is great for basics – tees, pants, sweaters.
I was recently shopping at BR Factory and Gap Factory, and then walked into JCrew Factory and felt like I’d walked into a twee color explosion in comparison, so I get it.
I’d suggest continuing to wear the silhouettes and colors you like, but making sure you mix your dressy items with rougher / casual items in your preferred colors. I’ve had to work to skew casual, so I have a rule of only one dressy item per outfit. So, silk shirt with light-wash jeans and sandals (if your office wears those). Or nice trousers with a “sloppy” linen or denim shirt and sneakers.
L’Argence could be a contender – you can switch the silk shirts for cotton button downs and explore jean cuts in other materials.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I’ve always just dressed nicer than my casual colleagues. If you’re already doing jeans and a blazer, I’d keep doing that. Maybe skew into sneakers or casual shoes if you want, but I wouldn’t blow a bunch of money on cheap, crappy clothes.
Agree with this. Many years ago I had a colleague who used to say, “I’m almost always the most dressed up person in the room, and I’m okay with that.” I took that to heart and never looked back.
+1
Agree with the last sentiment, but perhaps the way to thread the needle here is to wear more casual or plain tops under the blazer rather than a button-down or a more formal fabric like silk.
Cos
Is your current wardrobe not appropriate for the new setting?
Could you wear your pants with basic solid colored t-shirts? And your blouses with jeans? Skip the blazers entirely. You wouldn’t need a lot if new pieces and could keep wearing what you already have and like, but in slightly less formal combinations.
I’m from a family where everyone lives far away and many people have teens and kids in college. For an elderly family member where the adult kids still work (so college / teen kids), how have you all handled funerals where everyone will have to travel, some up to a day? Some people refuse to go if kids have a graduation, orientation, or first move ins for college. Some won’t find a kid has a sports tournament. Other kids are counselors at summer camp.
Basically, if relative dies, some child and that child’s whole family won’t go (but others may go). People are already getting shouts, elder relative is terminal, I’m likely going to have to handle this mess. (And if it’s not the summer, my guess is that something else will be a problem, like SATs or holidays). What do people do? I have a feeling that you can’t really die in August and have a funeral in October.
You plan around the closest family members – so the deceased’s children, and their children. And then everybody else does what they can. You can’t please all the people all the time.
^^And I’ll also add – be understanding of people who can’t be there. My guess is that you don’t have kids in the college move-in, SAT, etc phase. That stuff really is important to the kids and the family.
Agree, though I will side-eye missing a funeral for a sports tournament. There are milestone events, and there are regular life events.
+1 – plan around immediate family. Ideally the far-flung relatives show up but imho SATs, college move ins/orientations are not easy to move or miss. My brother and dad had to miss my grandfather’s funeral as it was during college move in and we basically split the family – mom and I went to funeral, dad/brother did move in. It sucked but family understood that it wasn’t something we could move.
I’ve done this when we send someone from the family but not everyone. But also not no one, which would be worse.
Agree. Send the family representative, so mom or dad misses the game or move in.
Even if the kids can’t make it, you have to signal to them that family and funerals matter.
I couldn’t go to my BIL’s funeral because we couldn’t find someone over a holiday weekend to watch our dog and boarding spots for XL dogs were full. But since it was my husband’s family, he went with our kids and I stayed home. I wish I could have gone, but we couldn’t not go and my husband has stayed when we had sick kids but I had a grandparent’s funeral to go to all of a sudden and an aunt’s funeral. It’s hard to juggle, but I think if you can go, you should go, at least an actual family member.
+1
Barring any religious timing expectations, if the person is to be cremated, there actually is no need for a rush.
I have a similar family. What happens is the family picks a date that works for the nuclear family of the deceased, and then many families dispatch subsets to attend, vs. coming en masse. (Like the blood relative will come with some of the kids, or the parents will come but the kids stay at college, etc.)
Our people always get buried. I think the only time I’ve seen a delay > 2 weeks was for a burial at Arlington Cemetery, where I think you get on a list and then get told a time that is often months away. I don’t know how much notice of the selected time the close family gets.
You absolutely can have a memorial service at whatever time you want. That’s what my family has always done and it’s been just fine.
Same here. In the alternative, you pick the date and people come or not.
You just have the funeral when the immediate family wants to. Everyone else comes or doesn’t come as they are able.
You set the date. People will make their own decision whether or not to attend.
If the elderly relative is religious, you may want to consult a faith leader about the customary time periods involved. You don’t have to wait until the death to connect with a priest, minister, or rabbi. It may in fact bring comfort to your relative to have the faith leader start to visit now.
Tread carefully here. Someone (hometown friend who is a real holy roller) did this with my terminal dad—and a priest showed up to give him last rights. It was beyond upsetting to my dad and the only time I’ve seen my mom (who is religious fwiw) ready to come to blows with two grown men as she kicked them out of the house.
Just schedule the funeral when the spouse and majority of kids can attend. Lots of people can’t attend funerals for various reasons. Allow people to grieve (or not) how they want.
In my family, when my mom was dying, we knew by mid May that it would be in the summer when she died. After she died, my dad picked a day when the priest was able to do the funeral that was 2 weeks from when she died. My sister refused to travel to the funeral in early August (no college move in or SAT conflict) because a kid had a sports tournament but maybe she’d go with one kid if they could also plan a beach vacation. I kid you not. We haven’t spoken since because I got tired of being screamed at over it. I’m not sure what I or anyone else could have done differently and Dad has been more forgiving than I’d be. IDK how it will go later when he dies.
In a similar circumstance (parent to 6, grandparent/great to about 50), we had a funeral that weekend for anyone who could attend and a Celebration of Life at Christmas, when everyone was more likely to be home.
I don’t understand this. In my traditional Jewish culture, funerals as held as soon as possible and the immediate relatives of the deceased drop everything for the funeral. I understand a grandchild might need to take a scheduled exam, but there’s no reason their bereaved parent needs to skip a funeral for their kid’s SATs? Presumably there’s another parent who can cover, or even a close friend’s parent if there’s no second parent.
Sounds like not everyone follows your cultural traditions.
I’m the one you’re replying to and I agree, it’s definitely not in my culture for the unestranged son/daughter of the deceased to skip their own parent’s funeral for their kid’s sportsball game. I’m still surprised that this is apparently common in other cultures and I don’t mind saying that.
It’s not a cultural thing anywhere. It’s a selfishness thing.
I don’t know anyone personally who would skip for a sports event, but I’m here to say that this has significantly shifted in recent years, because so many funerals happened when travel was restricted. I attended one funeral where one of the deceased’s children had to attend virtually, and missed one funeral myself that I otherwise would have gone to. Even though now the restrictions don’t apply anymore, I feel like the absolute expectations around funerals have loosened.
Completely agree with you. If it was my family, my kid would stay with a friend to take the SAT and the rest of us would go to the funeral. I cannot imagine the level of self involvement people are suggesting is just fine here. But it’s typical on this board – many lack family connections they value.
Yeah, my prickly response was about “I don’t understand…” (which to be fair to you, was very persnickety).
I agree with you and with people on this thread, and it’s not because of any religious tradition for me. My own ethical compass is that you show up, and there are some things, including sports tournaments and the like, that don’t obviate that ethical compass. But that compass is my own, and others have different ones.
I feel like if you are from these cultures and go to a sporting event (but it’s a state championship!) for a kid vs a funeral for a loved parent, you are basically saying a permanent FU to your family and they can react accordingly. When they can do all that and make time for the Will reading, it’s a case of when people tell you who they are, believe them.
I didn’t see anywhere that the deceased’s own child is skipping for a sports tournament. I was picturing those people as more distant. Not that I would make the same decision, necessarily, but there’s a marked difference between skipping your own parent’s funeral and skipping great great aunt who you only met a couple times as a child.
In my traditional Catholic culture, this is also what I’m familiar with.
I grew up in the NEUS (so large Jewish and Catholic presence, but I’m neither) and would never not go. I’m 5 hours from my family’s geographic center and only missed funerals when I was in college and had no car. I’ve left family at home at times (now that I have them), but usually we all go unless someone is sick.
Catholic and Anglican family, and you if at all possible. Did not understand it was not like this all families until I presented my husband with the plan of how we could make it to his grandmother’s funeral. We had two days notice, would take a red eye plus driving five hours and he was like, naw, I’m ok not going.
As someone who’s Jewish, my experience is that people are pretty understanding if you can’t drop everything with a day or two’s notice. Locals will stop by the shiva if they can’t miss work or school. I only had one crazy experience where a relative passed away in the evening, their immediate family announced the funeral would be held the next day, and they held it against people who couldn’t attend
Yes, but in fairness the shiva gives a bit more flexibility as to when you pay your respects. My family is Catholic and we typically have the visitation on a weekday, funeral mass 1-2 days after the visitation, and then a special remembrance/prayer during Sunday mass. If someone can’t make it to the actual funeral mass attending the visitation or Sunday mass is not ideal but understood.
My family doesn’t particularly feel obligations for funerals, even though I’ve attended many with my parents. To them, a funeral is just for the living. Maybe it’s because they all wanted to be cremated and thus there is no body going anywhere. But even at funerals where people are buried, they never go to a graveside again.
I think this is different when you have a cultural/religious belief tied to funerals but otherwise there are many people who just see it as a time to remember someone and you can truly do that anywhere.
This is definitely hard to wrap my head around. Usually to me the idea that the funeral is for the living means that’s even more important to show up since there are people there who will feel supported.
Yes — showing up for the living is an amazing gift to them (assuming you are not the drama llama who will make someone else’s funeral about them, which I’ve seen). If you can behave and can go, you should go. It is such a comfort to the family and friends.
Like the dinner party angst of throwing a party and no one RSVPing or coming (to do self-care or whatever). Imagine having a funeral and no one comes. If the family knew, maybe they’d just have a simple graveside service vs also planning for a wake / viewing / reception after.
I agree with this. One of my rules is “always go to the funeral” and I’ve never been sorry for following it. And since losing my own parents I realize even more how much it means for people to show up. I have one Rotary Club acquaintance with whom I’m not even particularly close, and I am grateful to this day that he showed up for my mom’s service even though he had never met her.
This is more similar to my upbringing and beliefs. I don’t personally find funerals to be a great way for me to grieve, and so my attendance hinges around those who will attend the funeral that do need my support. There are many of us for whom a funeral is an uncomfortable formality, and so not showing up and allowing for a smaller thing is a gift to them. Others want to see the whole community turn up at their mother’s funeral, and in that case we show up.
You’re planning a funeral hypothetically? Huh?
Yes (but parent has a diagnosis that is terminal) and with a family background that is not smooth sailing for non-local siblings with 4 kids each.
Oooph. 4 kids is rough. I never went to my grandparent’s funerals because we couldn’t afford to pay for all the kids to fly. I can imagine that it is tricky on your sibling’s end.
By the time we started loosing the parents/aunts+uncles, we moved to Memorials that were scheduled weeks to months out. Some coordination of dates that work is done in our family for Memorials. This is so that families can try to bring the whole family. That was rarely possible for families with younger kids when funerals were close to the time of death. Often the spouse would have to stay home with the kids for those situations.
Do you even plan with estranged siblings? In our family, one sibling is estranged but the aunts / nieces, nephews, and cousins (college or young adults) continue to be in contact. For young adults without funds, do you offer to send them tickets (in my case, I could pay but then could see a dust-up with estranged parent over kids going and parent not). Messy families are even worse during the sad times. Some people have an endless capacity for screaming and punching down.
When my uncle died, we did have the funeral almost 2 months later because we wanted to get the family together. It really depends on the circumstances. My elderly uncle was a widower with no children, so I think the immediate need for closure wasn’t as urgent even though we were obviously sad and still wanted to have the funeral. I have been to many funerals where the need for closure was more urgent and people did need to drop everything and come quickly. People who weren’t closed to the deceased may not be able to do that, which is understandable. It is more important, for example, to go to your kid’s graduation than barely knew him great uncle Fred’s funeral.
If I was close to Great Uncle Fred, I’d probably not go to a high school (or lower) graduation, but let the other parent go and watch the live stream. But FWIW, our high school graduates in a stadium, you only get 2-4 tickets per family, and it’s a hot mess. Your kid will never see you and you maybe will see your kid on the jumbotron only. I could see college graduation at something like a SLAC being something where I’d beg off for an hour to watch the live stream of the funeral (especially since you likely have to move kid out of a dorm the next day).
We’ve done immediate burial with whoever can make it and then a memorial service a few weeks later (up to 3 months).
Here’s a question. My mom didn’t go to my grandmother’s funeral (her own mother). So I didn’t go to that. My mom is a bit of a bitter pill who can be really prickly and has no filter with family. Now that I’m an adult, I don’t think that I will get invited to any more family funerals (or that I’m even in the family any more). I’ve always lived far away. One aunt (my mom’s sister) keeps in touch with me and my siblings.
Since my parents got divorced and my dad remarried and had more kids (3 in diapers now) and we’ve always lived far from his family (which lives far from each other), I feel like an orphan. I’d like to reconnect with any relatives but also a bit concerned that it will just make my mom go nuclear. Not really just a funeral question, but it makes me sad that I will never be at weddings or happy events for any family except the one I may have myself (and with my effed up family, who knows if that will ever happen).
I would reconnect, explain about your mother and ask them to not tell her you’re in touch and just not tell your mom about it. She shouldn’t keep you from having a relationship with your own family.
I’m sorry about all of this, first of all.
Second, is there a way to reconnect with one person, as a way of starting? Maybe there was a cousin or an aunt who you were closer to, or who sees that your mom was the fulcrum in this whole thing?
There is no date that can ever be set where everyone can come to anything. I’d just set a date that works for the immediate family and let the “OMG Lulu has a travel sports tournament!” crowd complain. And people are going to complain about something – my aunt was ticked off that we had a pastor do a short service (my grandmother was a lifelong churchgoer).
FWIW, when my grandmother died, we did a funeral several months after she passed away. She was cremated (cheaper, which she endorsed) and she wanted to be buried next to her late husband in a small-town Midwestern cemetery. We have a really small extended family, so it wound up being her daughters, her granddaughters, the son-in-laws, an old friend, and a couple of random cousins who happened to live in that part of KS. I’m glad we had a funeral at all – we didn’t have one for my other set of grandparents and I wish we had done one.
I may put this on the moms board, but will try here. TW: dog end of life and children
We may have to make the very difficult decision to put our 11 year old beloved dog down today. Long story short is she has cancer, and was doing ok, but ingested a foreign object this weekend and if she does not pass it soon, she is not able to survive surgery. Our doggie is admitted to the vet hospital after going to the ER yesterday and she’s there now. We’re waiting on the results of a morning ultrasound before making a decision.
We have a very emotionally average-trending-mature 7 year old daughter. We’ve been slowly preparing her for this event figuring the cancer would run it’s course in the next 9-12 months as the vet suggested. But this is far more sudden than anticipated. How do we handle? If we have to put her down, I think it will happen in the hospital. Does DD come? Do we give her the choice? 7 is still so young, but I never had dogs or pets so I just don’t want her to look back and hate us for not letting her be there. I really don’t know how to handle this. Let her say her goodbyes there, and we all leave the room together? Maybe just DH or I hang back to stay with the pup as it’s happening? Appreciate any and all guidance. TIA.
I went through this with an elderly cat when my daughter was around that age. No, I wouldn’t have her come to the animal hospital. You will likely be emotional yourself and need some time to fall apart. (I was there for my pet’s last moments, and I was a total mess. I needed a bit to get myself together before facing my kids and their emotions.) I would have your daughter say her goodbyes at home, before you take your pet to the hospital. Explain what’s going on in the most age-appropriate way you can. It will be hard, but it will give her some closure. You can tell her that Dog had a long, good life, and empathize with how hard it is to lose a furry friend. There will be tears and emotions in the days to come, and that’s okay.
OK, sorry, somehow missed that the pet is already at the hospital. I think your plan of having your daughter make a “last visit” there to say goodbye to her pet, but not be there for the actual event, is a good one.
+1 to all of this. We had to handle it this way as our pet died during the end of Covid lockdowns and only 1 person was allowed at the vet. We all said goodbye at home and I took the dog in. We all then had a sad night at home watching tv, eating pizza, and talking about the dog.
We went thru this with our beloved kitty. She had kidney disease and a heart condition that we were managing with medication for a year. My child age 7 (just turned 7) knew kitty was sick. She took a turn for the worse with the kidney disease and we had made the decision. I brought my kid to the vet to get kitty a dose of fluids the night before to keep her comfortable so we could have one last night of snuggles. We talked about how she was older and very sick. In the morning we told our daughter that the cat wasn’t doing well, and she should give her a hug. She did. We did at home euthanasia and told my daughter kitty got very sick and died at the vet where we were trying to help her. She asked some questions and then we focused on drawing a portrait to memorialize the cat. I am tearing up writing this. I didn’t feel she would understand euthanasia.
In your shoes with the dog in the hospital I would see if your kid could visit the dog. Tell her the dog is not doing well. So she has the chance to say goodbye. But I’d leave her out of the euthanasia part. I was really dealing with a lot of my own grief and this seemed the best way. My kid was a very young 7.
I would have never forgiven my parents if they put down one of our pets without telling me or giving me the choice to be there. Our cat died when I was 7, at home, quite peacefully, while I was petting her (alone because it was the middle of the night and my parents were asleep). I was sad, but glad I was with her and not at all traumatized.
You were lucky. Most animals don’t have nice peaceful deaths. My brother is still traumatized from our childhood cat seizing and him having to take her to the pet ER to be put to sleep. He was 18 and my mother couldn’t handle it (she had mental health issues and should have not let the cat get so ill, cat was old and likely had kidney disease).
I’m unconvinced there’s a good way to die. Euthanasia can be horrifically traumatizing as well, especially when it’s a cat who doesn’t want to be at the vet and doesn’t want to be euthanized. Hopefully it is easier with dogs who are more domesticated.
Yes include your daughter. My parents euthanized my (very sick) pets in secret (once when I was a child and once when I was 19) to spare me. It just made me angry. I’ve had to euthanize pets since then, and yes, it’s very sad and I grieve, but at least I was there until the end.
Your experience is valid, but I also want to present a counterpoint. We put our dog down when my kids were 6 and 4, while they were at school, and it was two days before they noticed she wasn’t there. It was my soul dog and I was devastated, so please don’t think there was no emotion involved, but my kids really did not feel it the same way I did. To this day, they have never cried or been sad about it, although we speak about the dog regularly and when she pops up in our digital photo frame, we all talk about how she was the best dog ever. I have sometimes wondered if it’s because my husband takes the kids to his family ranch, where death is something that is spoken about very frankly has had something to do with it? I don’t know. But anyways, I share this to say – this is very kid dependent.
Both stories are excellent examples. I find children tend to handle death better than parents do. I would be more attentive to shielding my children from my grief than I would the actual death, though sometimes that means shielding them from the death.
I’m just so so sorry. Sending love.
My kiddo lost a family member in early elementary school. The advice I was given was to give her as much information as she asked for at the time. In your case, I might say ‘cat died at the vet’s office’ and see if your child asks any follow up questions. Does your kid know about pet euthanasia? Learning about the practice of pet euthanasia and then euthanizing your pet in the course of 24 hours would be a lot.
One thing that is very different between pets and humans is that pets don’t have a concept of death in the same way humans do, so while they don’t fear death they definitely feel pain. But… that’s a very adult way of understanding the situation. I’m not sure if you want to try to get philosophical with a small kid who is facing the immediate loss of their pet.
I hope everything goes as well as possible. Sometimes, as parents, we’re just looking for the least bad option.
I haven’t met the animal who doesn’t fear death.
bring your daughter, give her the chance to say goodbye. Your or DH should stay with your dog for her last moments. I feel very strongly we owe it to our pets to not let their last moments be in a room of people they don’t know (when we are able to make that choice). Can you or DH visit your dog in advance so you can prep daughter (eg, she might seem like herself and there’s confusion about why she’s going to pass soon, or if she’s in a lot of discomfort – preparing your daughter for seeing that). I’m so sorry for your loss.
Can anyone recommend a good doctor — internist, OBGYN, or ? — in Manhattan or Brooklyn to help me troubleshoot and treat perimenopause issues? I need to find a new internist anyway as mine abruptly disappeared, and I don’t love my OBGYN. Dealing with very heavy periods + spotting + low ferritin levels, chronic headaches, and steady weight gain despite being extremely active and increasing exercise (marathon training etc).
You can find good leads by checking the Find a Healthcare Practitioner tab at the top of the page on the Menopause Society’s website. https://menopause.org
I and other friends have had good experiences at PureOBGYN. And I have like a phobia of doctors so as my friend said, if I don’t mind them they must be good.
NYU has a menopause center – I would try there. I believe many of the providers are NPs but I’ve heard good things.
I like both my OBGYN (Downtown Women) and my GP (Dr Valerie Lyons).
Ideas for how to vet/verify reliability, trustworthiness and quality of work from a house cleaner. I am trying to help my older family member with mobility issues. Not sure if we should look at a small, local option (think Merry Maids), other larger groups (like home-a-glow) or a local word of mouth network. Person knows of a local option, but it’s an acquaintance and I’m worried about the what-ifs if things don’t work out. Any key advice?
The best we’ve found anywhere is trusted neighbors who recommend their person to you.
+1
+1
Your parents are very vulnerable.
My only advice: Avoid Home-a-Glow. It’s a scam. They have ridiculous cancellation fees (like 6 months of cleanings!) and the cleaners are independent contractors so they’re not necessarily committed or consistent. It’s a bad business model!
I use a small local option and they’re ok. They’re very reliable about always having a team show up, which is more important to me that being 100% meticulous in cleaning. I’d rather be 100% sure my house will be 80% clean than risk people who are more thorough cleaners but don’t show up for personal reasons.
IME people post good recommendations for cleaners on NextDoor. Maybe you can establish an account for the closest Next Door locality to your family member. (I can’t remember if they try to verify your location.)
Merry Maids and some similar local franchises actually do some very basic eldercare as part of their training – like, they’re obviously not home health companions but when my grandpa had issues that the cleaners could see and experience, including personality changes and ability issues, the Merry Maids manager called my mom to tell her. I’m sure a local person could do the same —- but the fact that the Merry Maids did is a point in their favor, to me.
I have always relied on word of mouth.
Use a local person/service, never a chain.
Either way, install a safe and watch valuables, especially for a low mobility senior who folks might think of as an easy mark. Think of it as removing temptation.
Man. I put someone on a PIP last week. I also put someone else on a workplan, which is like a step before the PIP.
The person on the PIP does not seem to be getting it — that this is the final step before termination — even though HR and I have been exceedingly clear. Today she called her PIP a “workplan” and I had to be like, No girl…you’re not on a workplan! You’re on a PIP! What is not computing here?!
Anyone have any stories to share about PIPs?
Give her a break. It’s ok to be in denial when someone (you?) is obviously out to destroy their livelihood in the short term. It’s a lot to internalize.
In the case where I had to let someone go, there was mostly denial about their own job performance and their abilities. It was unfortunate, but they started covering up their mistakes and we just couldn’t make it work.
Oh my. That’s quite a take on PIPs.
That’s literally OP’s desired end-goal. I didn’t see language where she was working closely with the person to make sure they got back on track.
I must have missed where OP said “I literally want to destroy my employee’s livelihood and I definitely don’t care whether the PIP leads to an improvement of their performance”
Of course I don’t know OP. But I would bet a substantial amount of money that she is not sitting around her office villain style rubbing her hands together and cackling about her intent to “destroy their livelihood”. She probably just wants the effing work done in a reasonably competent manner.
lol sorry you’re not talented enough to ever get promoted to management but don’t take it out on OP
I think the problem is that for someone who is not in employment law or HR, etc., it’s tempting to take this at face value and assume there’s still an opportunity to improve. Honestly the whole idea of giving someone a PIP when their termination is a forgone conclusion has always bothered me. I understand that’s how it works many places, but that doesn’t make it right or kind.
+1. I briefly worked in HR so I know that a PIP means the company is creating a paper trail before termination and you *will* be fired in the near future. For people who don’t have that career background and they don’t personally know anyone who’s shared their PIP experience…well no they may not read between the lines if you weren’t explicitly clear. Unless you said “This is the final step before termination and I’ve never seen an employee bounce back from a PIP” she might think there’s a chance she can improve and keep her job long term.
This has been my experience as well. The name “Performance Improvement Plan” does not sound like “we are going through the motions and you are getting fired so start looking for another job or quit if you do not want a termination in your history” to someone who has not encountered them before. But that is what they actually are at many companies.
I cannot tell from your post what your PIP employee’s issue is or how fixable it is, but it would be a kindness to tell them flatly that if they do not meet every single metric on their PIP they are getting fired.
We are basically not allowed to be remotely critical in reviews, so people don’t see it as people are beyond frustrated and have tried doing this softly and have give up and are doing the loud thing. If we could give pointed criticism and constructive criticism to employees (without them going rogue or engaging in sabotage), we would. Our culture makes us soft-pedal real evaluations at the point where people could make changes (or cared to) and now it’s very black or white vs gray (just not called what it is with an honest label).
Right. Even saying the “final step before termination” isn’t totally honest if what it really is is the first step in the process of firing you.
+1
I guess a lot of the time the PIP is an equalizer. As a boss, you only go to the PIP when you think you’ve tried everything else to get performance up. Maybe you weren’t super clear, or maybe the employee was not really getting that it was serious. The formal PIP should provide in writing the points that need improvement, a deadline, and the clear message that lack of improvement leads to termination. So it could be the wakeup call for an employee and lead to a turnaround, but most bosses (?) have already been trying pretty hard to coach their employee, and in those cases it really is a prelude to termination.
+1
This is the sucky part of being a boss. If I’m putting something in writing, it’s because I’ve been trying to coach you for ages, and it’s not working. There is a fundamental mismatch between the employee and the job. Thankfully, it’s very rare that it gets to this point, but it does happen. And there’s no “good” way to do it, unfortunately. Soften it, and they don’t understand how serious it is. Be very direct about the problems and that they’re on thin ice, and you’re harsh and overly critical. It’s like asking someone to be better at a breakup!
At least at my company, a PIP does not mean you will definitely be terminated. We have had people get the feedback, improve appropriately, and then move back into good standing. I agree that its not the most likely outcome, but its not impossible.
You know…I may be dense but I’ve heard many managers and HR employees say they were clear and I privately thought they were…not. I notice there’s a way people speak, especially about really challenging subjects, that seems to dance around it and assume the person on the receiving end will “get it”.
As an example, my manager once made a general announcement to like 50 people on a meeting call that work is 8 hours with 7.5 being “at work” (meaning logged/in active–*I assume*, she didn’t spell that out!) and if she had to have private conversations with people on this topic it “wouldn’t be a happy conversation.” See how much was left out there? I can 100% guarantee you she thought she was blindingly clear. We’re salaried and global, and don’t clock in/log in and out. So there was a *lot* missing from that statement, but I did get the gist. However I can see someone more literal and less experienced being like “what does she mean ‘not happy’? Is this going to be a formal write up? Is this warning a “verbal”? Was that for me? For a handful of people? For hourly?”
Now I’m not saying that happened! But combined with the probably really upsetting emotions that might be preventing them from processing what you’re saying, it could explain the confusion.
I think that’s a rough assumption! If I were making that announcement I would say “The expectation is that you’re logged in/active for 7.5 hours, and available for 8 hours a day. This is a required expectation of your job.”
Now, you can’t say “you will be fired if you dont do XYZ” in a company wide call unless its something ridiculously blatant.
+1 I suspect OP was not nearly as clear as they think and some people aren’t good at reading between the lines and take things at face value. The whole between the lines thing always bothered me because it’s sooooooo unclear, but hey management gets to save face
Trying to address a few problematic instances via a 50 person announcement is definitely a bad strategy, but oh so common. It always leads to the underperforming colleagues to ignore the instructions and confuses the rest.
You’re literally using an acronym. At least “workplan” is words. Everybody had to learn what a PIP was at some point, and it’s not actually clear what the difference between a personal improvement plan and a workplan is (they sound like they describe the same thing).
We’re making a lot of assumptions here. At my company people are told by HR (who is in the meeting!) that a PIP is the last step before termination. It’s very clear.
But are they hearing “I am likely to be fired” or “okay, this is my last chance to turn things around, which I plan to do, so I probably won’t be fired”?
In my opinion whenever people use Latinate terms like “termination” they sound euphemistic and obfuscatory compared to plain language.
I have to write for the public sometimes and plain language is so important. Even supposedly educated folks often don’t have that high a reading level and struggle with synonyms. It’s key to keep things around 5th grade level.
I feel like that question is a bit personality dependent, and also dependent on how much capacity for improvement there is. It’s different if the employee is trying hard but not really capable of meeting the goals (they might hear the message I’m about to get fired). It’s different if the employee was knowingly cutting corners, leaning out, having life stuff that impacted their performance but otherwise have the ability to perform. The might hear the message I have to turn it around.
“Last step before termination” still sounds like you can turn it around though. “First step of the termination process” is more accurate.
Did you or HR actually say “you have formally been put on a performance improvement plan. After X days, if we do not see Y (things in the PIP), you will be terminated.”
If not, you were not clear enough.
The word PIP gets thrown around a lot, and people may have a diluted sense of their importance. When I was a lawyer working in HR (heavily unionized workforce), we called them “Last Chance Agreements.” THAT got the message across. This is your last chance, agree to these terms or go.
This is so much clearer!
I’ve never worked for a big corporation. It was only on this forum that I learned what a PIP was and what it meant. Until then, if I’d been presented with one, I’d have taken it at face value: this is a plan to help me improve. I would not have understood I was about to be fired.
I honestly find their names to be a depressing dystopian doublespeak.
Same!!
I’ve heard it called “Paid Interview Prep” and think that is the most sane way of looking at it.
Yes, bust your tail and improve! Also, spend time job searching and interviewing.
I worked at a place where the department head insisted that a PIP was not in fact a signal to look for a new job but just a consequence for poor performance. She was always shocked and professed to feel betrayed when the person on the PIP quit, either during the PIP or shortly after it was “successfully concluded.”
I’m curious if she said she was on a workplan to you in private or if it was to someone else or if someone else was around. It can be embarrassing to be on a PIP, so I understand why she wouldn’t use that word, especially if others were around.
Recs for Milan and cities between Milan and Venice? I’ve never been to Italy.
We are going to a wedding in the Prosecco Area north of Venice next summer and are going to make a bigger trip out of it. Wedding will take up 3 the days with events, we’re thinking 1.5 or 2 weeks total. Thinking of landing in Milan, staying there a couple days, taking the train east towards Venice and stopping in 1-2 cities in between. Would just it be better to spend the whole time in the Venice area?
I know its the peak of tourist season so to expect huge crowds and high prices.
Florence of course :) Milan is cool, but I wouldn’t stay more than two days when Florence and Venice beckon.
Florence is not between Milan and Venice. Nowhere close. Go to Lake Como from Milan.
Depending on where you are, we did a Prosecco tour day from Venice, and the small companies had a deal where you could batch orders from all of them and ship in bulk back home. Way more cost effective than separate orders. Worth asking if you are doing some tastings.
I loved Venice — late in the day, when we could walk around after the day-trippers had left. Like we went to the Doge’s Palace around 6:30pm and had some rooms entirely to ourselves.
Otherwise, stopping at Lake Garda or Verona would be a nice contrast. Verona for sure is on the high speed line. Verona is known for the “Juliet balcony” but it’s easy to avoid :)
Adding – getting around Italy by train is really easy. So I’d recommend a multi city itinerary for the overseas flights, like into Milan and out of Venice (there are seasonal nonstops to the US from there), or into Venice and out of Rome, etc.
Lake Como and Lake Garda are both fairly easy from Milan. I do not think you need more than 1-2 days in Milan.
Treviso is a lovely small city just an hour north of Venice by train. We stayed at the Locanda Ponte Dante and loved it — right by the river and walkable to everything.
Milan is fine, but I didn’t love it. It was my least favorite stop in Italy. So I’d vote for spending more time in Venice or add on Verona and/or Florence.
It is really easy to get around by train in Italy, but be very careful that you’ve got the right tickets for where you’re going. I say that because I know four people, including myself, who were in Italy last summer and three of us got fined on the train for having the wrong ticket. (It was definitely a train employee and not a scammer.) I think this is mostly an issue when you’re going to someplace smaller and need to use the more regional/local trains, as opposed to traveling between two big cities.
Padua – one of the oldest universities in Europe, two basilicas (St Anthony is the famous one and very glitzy, Saint Justine is very stripped back and calm), the Scrovegni Chapel with Giotto paintings that marked a major turning point in Western art. It’s only about forty-five minutes out of Venice on the train and you could get a nice flavour of it in a day so could get there early, stash cases by the station, and be in Venice that evening. It could also be a nice day trip from Venice if the crowds there get too much.
Where are people getting the cute woven straps for purses and crossbody bags? Looking for a fun pattern with shades of blue and not just a stripe in neutral colors. Have struck out at quince and rothy. Clare V is too pricey. Hoping to keep it under $40.
Recs from Etsy or amazon?
Maybe look at guitar straps? I’d avoid the river store
Clare V
??
She asked where you get them. That’s the answer. She doesn’t like the price, but it’s good to know that sometimes you have to pay for what you want. And straps are like $100, get what you actually want.
OP here. Clare V’s current strap selection isn’t quite what I’m looking for either. Lots of braids and chains. And their wovens are mostly stripes or words.
I’m envisioning something like their “b&w checkered” woven straps but in blue shades.
Happy to more pay CV prices for quality and exactly what I want but their current offerings are not quite it
She explicitly said “Clare V is too pricey.”
search guitar purse straps on Etsy. Tons pop right up. I have two good ones from Etsy from the $25-30 range. I have a couple from the river site that were more like $15 and they look pretty cheap, so would not recommend.
Amazon and Etsy
lol, these answers are truly terrible. She is clearly looking for specific recs.
Any specific links?
Nobody else can tell you what you think is cute. Go to Etsy and search for purse strap and you will see dozens of options in a variety of colors and patterns.
I saw some cute ones at Mark and Graham but don’t recall the price.
I found very nice ones at a beach front souvenir shop.
I have a good job on paper. In house, making probably a touch above market pay. Work 50-60 hours a week and seem to be being groomed by the GC to be the next GC ). I both am sick of my job and maybe don’t even want to be an attorney anymore. I think I am having a mid life crisis. I’m approaching 40, I feel like my chance to have a second kid is slipping through my fingers (we have a four year old. I thought I would be ok with one but she’s not going to have any cousins it looks like). My organization is changing and rapidly and not in a direction I like – I can’t imagine staying here til I retire anymore. I’m the breadwinner and still have 200k outstanding in student loans.
I’m daydreaming about working in (or owning ) a flower shop or a fancy cheese shop. I feel like I’ve just become a corporate cog / middle manager but with very little time to explore outside interests. Point me in the direction of what I need? I’m in therapy but it doesn’t seem to do much. I’m prob a touch depressed. I do almost no workout/ exercise so I am going to try to work on that for physical and mental health.
I think it’s kind of a mid life crisis , state of the world existential issue.
Your most pressing issue is deciding if you want another child, and if so, how to make that happen.
It’s hard to care about your job when it isn’t providing you with what you want in life. I know plenty of people who are sick of their jobs but are well compensated and enjoy the benefits it gives their families. But if you’re sacrificing a second kid for a job you’re sick of, of course you’re going to be unhappy!
(My advice, which might not be great: if you’re 38 or 39, just try for the second kid now. Make your career decisions based on how that whole process goes. If you get lucky and conceive easily, then you only need to stay at your job through the end of maternity leave. If it takes a while and involves some difficulties, you can kick your job search into high gear, knowing that you probably won’t be pregnant when you start.)
I tend to agree with this. Figure out the kid thing first, then let the career chips fall where they may.
Totally understand what you mean about your job no longer providing the satisfaction it used to, especially when big organizational changes have happened.
If you want another baby do it now!!! I am here to recommend more kids. Going from 1-2 is a bit more juggling but nothing like going from 0-1.
Take the anti depressants. See if your partner can contribute more. Actually make a real plan for your student loans and a budget. Even if it is super slow you’ll feel better being in control of it. Have the baby now. Figure out the job later. You can’t quit to become a florist sorry that’s just a cute fantasy. But you can have a baby (hopefully!)
This all makes sense to me.
(Somewhat tangentially, a family member of mine works at a flower shop. And despite the low pay, she does in fact love being a florist, but her job has become stressful since a woman leaving a different career bought the flower shop; so far running a flower shop is definitely not what she hoped it would be!)
My only child has no first cousins (I’m an only and my husband’s sister is childfree by choice) and it hasn’t been a big deal. She is really extroverted and has a huge friend circle and both DH and I have close friends from childhood and college whose kids are like her honorary cousins, and we work hard to sustain those relationships even though it takes quite a bit of time and money (eg annual long weekend with my college BFFs and their kids).
Have a second kid if you want
a second kid, but I wouldn’t let cousins or lack thereof drive the decision. I have several first cousins but don’t really have a relationship with them.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Definitely have a kid if you want to have a second kid, but I wouldn’t factor lack of cousins into the equation.
In addition to the comments about trying for that second baby – you need more fulfillment and meaning in your life. Expanding family is a great way to get that, but it’s not the only way. Reconnecting with previous parts of yourself can also be a great way to get that – learning more about your family history, picking up some traditions that you had in your childhood that have fallen by the wayside, rekindling relationships with family (if they’re open and interested) Just wanted that to be included in the conversation if a second kid really isn’t in the cards!
A new job will make it harder to have another kid, not easier. Stick it out.
Working in a flower shop is my favorite alternate life fantasy, too. I empathize. My flower shop fantasies increase as I get more stressed by work and neglect my personal life more. I went in house a few years ago and don’t fantasize about the flower shop as much. I’m not getting very much meaning or fulfillment out of my job, and in fact, probably am getting was less than I did in private practice, but it is not so stressful and all-consuming that I’m constantly wishing I could escape. I no longer think about quitting law altogether. I think this is healthy – my job is serving an important but more limited role in my life, rather than my life serving my job.
Sounds like you feel like your job is taking more than it’s giving. I suggest you have the baby you want and try to relegate your job to where it belongs – something that serves you.
I’m an only child and only grandchild. You don’t miss what you don’t have.
Maybe it’s a midlife crisis. Maybe you just want to do something different with your life. Living a romcom or Hallmark movie existence (at least career wise) is fine, but I don’t think anyone who owns a business says they work less. I would start exploring other career interests whether you have another child or not. It sounds like either way you want more work life balance.
Inspired by the PIP thread above, I made the worst mistake in hiring several years ago and it’s coming home to roost. I agreed to promote someone into a middle management role who was a successful IC and who did a good job training his peers. Unfortunately, this person is also related to me. Originally, he did not report to me, just supported me which is why I didn’t think too much about the promotion. A couple of years ago due to a reorg he was moved under me. It was a really high pressure situation and while I definitely had these thoughts, I didn’t feel like I could say no or go to HR with the relationship stuff at that time. Fast forward to now, this manager is failing. He clearly has some sort of executive function issue where he just… forgets? a recurring deliverable and fails to delegate these things to other members who are less prone to forgetting. He checks the items off of month-end checklists even when they aren’t done. But it’s worse than this. When I forcefully ask for a deliverable that’s late, he dillidallies for weeks until finally handing it to me. These aren’t hard things. The last one was checking to make sure all the invoices were paid with a specific vendor (because in the past he failed to pay a vendor for so long our account was closed and sent to collections!). It took me nearly yelling at him to finally pick up the phone and make the phone call. On a Friday afternoon, five weeks after I originally nicely asked for the status and after reminding him nearly weekly. He does have a unique skillset in a very niche and abstract area that is basically the reason he’s the team lead, and he’s been doing fine on that front.
I know that I’m a huge stupid idiot for letting this situation happen and I understand he’s taking advantage of me. I don’t know what to do. He obviously deserves being fired. I have documentation of falsification of documents (submitted checklists that have no backup). I told him to look for a new job several months ago. Our relatives are aware of this situation and are voting for corrective action. However, these are aging folks with him being the only local resource. He’ll likely end up taking care of these four aging relatives in the next five years, and my immediate family is not able to help in any way other than financially.
Any tips for this horrible mess? I’m fine with being roasted.
Are you saying your HR does not know you are related to?
Correct. The relationship was never disclosed.
GIRL. Okay you gotta talk to relative and get him to quit. You have three problems now. Your own job, a family problem and the problems he’s causing.
Talk to HR and no nepo babies in the future.
Is it possible for this guy to move back to an IC role that does NOT report to you? I’d explore that option first.
Talk to HR immediately or you’ll wind up fired.
also start job searching because you could (depending on the details, maybe should) still be fired.
I would not talk to HR yet because you will probably get fired
Is this a family business? If not, why are you talking to your relatives about corrective action?
Possibility – you (and HR if it exists) tell him that middle management is clearly not a fit for him given his constant inexplicable failure to… do it. If he’d be willing to go to an individual contributor SME role so he can stay in his expertise lane, would that be a good outcome?
Not a family business. We’re just all corporate drones of different generations.
You need to start job searching
100, what were you thinking?!
If it truly matters to him to have a reliable income to pay for his aging relatives, he wouldn’t falsify documents and he would pay vendors on time.
Separate out the family issues from the career ones. The commenter above is right: you’re going to get fired over this. You are literally being paid to manage this situation, so manage it.
Make an appointment to talk to HR. Come up with a plan, which likely is going to be a PIP and termination.
Per the above discussion, a PIP should be a wake up call to him and hopefully some time when he can find a new job.
Just to clarify, is the reason you’re reluctant to fire him that you’ll get pushback from your family? Or that it will cause family rifts?
This is a tough situation. You probably need to go to HR and explain everything. Be prepared to be fired. If you’re not, then prepare to fire your relative.
One or both of you leaving is the only way this works out.
I honestly see no benefit to disclosing to HR. It only hurts you.
Try to get him demoted out of management, and if you can’t, tell him to quit or expect to be fired.
Sorry you’re in this situation. Obviously your judgement here was not spectacular but I’m sympathetic in the sense that a cascading series of events (relative being moved under you, relative’s performance dropping off unexpectedly) has made everything much worse. Not sure about the way out; I don’t agree with the advice to go to HR, at all.
I just want to say thank you from the pit of self loathing.
Just a vent. My husband and I are in a bit of tough spot financially, due to a combination of bad luck and poor decision-making on my husband’s part. Basically, he attended a lot of expensive conferences earlier this year, which would have been OK, except he then abruptly was laid off from his job and it took a while for him to find another, and he had a health crisis in the middle which delayed things further and caused additional debt. So we have gone through all of our savings and have some debt which I am really not thrilled about. My in-laws, who encouraged DH to go these conferences (thinking it would be great for his career, which I didn’t disagree with – but I also thought they were too expensive, even though I didn’t know we would then have a few months of very bad luck), have now come up with a great plan where we sell our house, use the proceeds to pay off the debt, and live in the apartment over their garage for free for a while. I understand how this hypothetically makes sense financially, but I really, really don’t want to. My in-laws are nice enough, but they are already over-involved in our lives as far as I’m concerned, and that level of proximity is just too much for me. Also, they live in a boring suburb that is far from both my office and our daycare. And honestly, I that’s not how I want to allocate my life savings. I’m already covering a large part of our expenses on my income while my husband deals with the debt. I love our home and really value having a piece of land to call my own. If I really needed to, I would consider selling our home to live in a condo or smaller home, but honestly, we bought this one when interest rates and prices were lower and pretty much anything decent we would buy these days would be more money for less space. I’m trying hard not to resent my husband because not one could anticipate the back-to-back layoff and health problems and those were really hard on him, but he was already taking more of a risk than I thought was advisable and I’m frustrated that we need to make sacrifices now because of it. I said no the the in-law suite and while he seems to understand, there is a bit of tension there and I’m really tired of dealing with it. I think we will be fine if we just buckle up and watch our expenses for a while, but I’m always super careful with money and did not think we would be in this situation. Not sure what I’m looking for here, either useful advice or commiseration.
You can work toward repaying the debt. It would be harder to repair the damage to your marriage that would come from living with your in-laws, it sounds like.
Does your DH get the seriousness of the situation? Have you sat down together to come up with a plan to get out of debt?
Absolutely not. Get a divorce before you consider this terrible plan. Conferences are only if your job pays for them.
Oh FFS, this varies by industry and this comment is a wild overreaction.
It’s harsh but she’s not wrong. My husband is an academic in a poorly funded field and still only attends conferences when a grant or university is paying. And that’s been true since he started grad school. I would be pretty upset if he wanted to spend large sums of our money on work travel.
This varies in academia as well. At least until recently there were fields doing job interviews at the annual conference. And it was not the case that only people who could get someone else to pay their way there had a chance at the TT jobs.
No advice, but I’m rooting for you. I would love to have someone’s roof to live under while my partner and I paid down debts and could still commute to work, so I don’t necessarily commiserate, but I understand your boundaries are feeling tested. It might make you feel better to discuss all of the options on the table, including this one, with your partner and make sure you come to a decision on what you value most–a home of your own, paring down the debt, whatever.
Even if it comes to this, think of it as a hurdle you get through together. Homes come and go. Maybe this positions you to make a better move.
I 100% agree with you not to sell your home. Take out a loan if you have to but don’t sell.
In the future, conferences are only worthwhile if your company pays for them.
Oh, my. I would not even consider selling my house outright to pay off debt because it will be so hard to get back into the market (but would consider downsizing). And living with the in-laws? No.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. You two have had a lot on your plate. Lovely that your in-laws made this offer, but I totally appreciate why it may not be the right fit for you.
No advice other than — get into couples counseling now. Resentment is the biggest killer of relationships (whether they end or folks just stay together and punish one another forever), and you want to get ahead of that kind of problem. I’m pulling for you both!
I mean, how much debt are we talking and how long will it take to pay off if you buckle down while staying in your house? If you can pay it off in a few years, it’s unlikely that it makes sense to sell your house, given how much housing prices and interest rates have gone up. I’d sit down with your husband, run all these numbers, and come up with a plan.
Do not sell your house. This whole thing is so fishy. No one should be going to conferences on their own dime. Your comfort and job are the priorities here since you are the responsible adult.
This. Under the circumstances I think that you get to drive the financial train for a while. Your comfort, daily quality of life, and your earning potential are of paramount importance right now.
If I were you I would think about a family financial plan incorporating one year, three year, and ten year goals, and then sit down with husband to hash it out. Put it in writing so there is a record of what you have agreed. And as others have noted, get thee to a therapist because resentment is the bell tolling for the death of a relationship.
I don’t see anything fishy. S H * T happens, and it sounds like they’re trying to figure it out. Her job is the priority, yes, but no one person’s comfort ever gets to be the priority in a healthy relationship.
Yeah going to a bunch of expensive conferences on your own dime while your wife is the responsible adult at home is fishy.
Your in-laws don’t care that their place is far from your job, when your job pays the bills? Oh hell no.
I would not sell the house either. Not sure if you can stomach this idea, but what about renting out your house to pay down your debt, using the IL’s above-garage apartment as a temporary measure? Highly dependent on your local housing market, how long you could tolerate living in the free apartment, and so on. But could be an interim solution.
Right. Maybe there’s someone who just needs a 6 month lease out there for a furnished home. You could at least try it out.
It’s possible but OP would also have to consider moving costs, storage costs, commuting costs, costs associated with cleaning and prepping their house before moving out/back in, maintenance costs for a rental, etc.
That’s what I would do, but I have an excellent relationship with both my parents and my in-laws. Part of me wonders why they jumped to “sell the house” instead of “rent the house” and it’s honestly a yellow flag for me, seems like they’re gunning to have A Lot of influence in your life.
Does your DH typically defer to his parents for major decisions and handling of financial matters? I would start there.
DH tends to listen to his dad in ways that irks me but he’s also learned that we need to make decisions as a couple. If his dad told him he needs to attend expensive conferences to network while being laid off, I think DH would tell him that’s outdated career advice. In my experience, conferences are either to highlight your employer’s capabilities or to meet service providers that could help you in the future. I agree it doesn’t make sense to attend on your own dime, but even if you feel this is an important event there are ways to bring the cost down (drive, stay at a different hotel, maybe buy a more limited pass).
I agree with buckling down and just getting the debt paid off, but in order to do that you’ll have to get your DH on the same page around what caused this mess and how to avoid it in the future. I know Dave Ramsey is problematic to many, but this is an area where his advice can get things moving in the right direction. He does talk a lot about money issues being relationship issues and the need to talk to your spouse. Yes he’s incredibly se*ist, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I hope that helps.
Joining the chorus of absolutely not. Selling your home is a terrible plan. You’re both working now, cut back and pay down the debt. No need for extreme measures.
I’m so sorry. This sounds very difficult.
Step 1, get your in-laws out of your business. Don’t take their advice; don’t ask them for advice; don’t include them in your discussions. If your husband is including them, tell him to stop. This is for you two to figure out.
Then see if you can get your finances in order by tightening up. Make a clear budget. If it ends up that you have to sell your house, don’t move in with your in-laws. Make sure you are very, very clear with your husband that that is not negotiable.
Only if OP thinks her in-laws don’t belong in the discussion. Some families work together–there’s no super secret nuclear family meetings for some of us.
Your co-dependency is not normal or healthy
Strong extended families exist. Sorry that’s an anathema to you.
Anon 2:19 – you don’t seem to live in the real world. Another extreme and unnecessary response.
Most people aren’t as rich as folks on this page. And the OP right now is not rich. They are sinking and at an inflexion point.
Many families have to depend upon their family, as more 20-somethings are living at home for years, grandparents wind up as daycare/babysitters for grandkids, and some elderly relatives age have to move in with their kids or be subsidized by them. And sometimes people loose their jobs, and have health crises, and have a bit more house than they can afford, and sometimes they have all 3 – and get underwater. That’s the world we live in.
It was thoughtful and generous for the OP’s in-laws to offer their extra apartment to the OP. They should be thanked and told – “we will definitely keep that in mind”. That being said, I would be just like the OP and agree that losing their amazing interest rate on the house that she loves, closest to her money making work and daycare is a definite no. Only the OP knows the $$ we are talking about here. How much debt? What is her income? What are the house payments etc… If the numbers absolutely wont work, and she is at risk for losing their house if they stay, then I would contemplate the renting the house option for a short term until they get stabilized financially.
I’m not sure the calls for marriage counseling are necessary now, as money and time are tight, and it sounds like husband needs to find a job. He should be working ANY part time job he can find just to make $ while applying like crazy. And he should be helping more with the kids/house obviously.
My husband’s parents are far more financially involved in their children’s life than I consider normal, and it means I need to work on setting boundaries a little more. But it’s also a benefit of marrying money, and it’s worth it to be able to have that extra cushion and comfort. Involving parents that want to help financially could be prudent, but only if you can keep them in their lane.
Why aren’t you considering a HELOC or home equity loan? If you are going to get money from the sale of the house to pay off the debt, what would be the additional mortgage cost if you added that kind of loan? I understand that layoffs take a lot of time, but there will also be seasonal work starting in the next few months as the holiday season approaches. Maybe he should look for part-time work.
Sorry, this isn’t tracking for me. What does debt from “expensive conferences” look like in this setting? The conferences I attend are usually something on the order of $1500 for registration, plus economy seat flights and three hotel nights (often at a conference rate). The way you’re talking about this makes me think this is many tens of thousands of dollars of debt. I think a lot depends on the specifics here.
A conference can easily be $2-3k (many are a week long, she didn’t say they were in the US) and it sounds like he went to several of them. $10k+ is definitely plausible.
That’s not enough debt to tank your future over by selling your home. Take out a HELOC or make him get a menial job.
@6:01. Exactly. To me the OP here reads like they’re in “$50,000 – $200,000 of consumer debt” territory, and that just isn’t conference travel kind of money, so I feel like there’s something else going on.
OP, do your in-laws have a financial interest in your husband’s industry? If you sell the house, will they encourage him to drain the rest of the money away on more expensive conferences?
And finally, although I really am sorry to ask, are you sure these conferences exist and that he didn’t just have an affair?
Or worse, MLM conferences?
I mean, idk how far underwater you are with DH out of work but before I sold my house to live above my in-laws garage I would: cut all expenses, sell a car, get a side hustle, have DH work a full time job of literally any kind to pay the bills, and if it’s minimum wage then one with a usable discount (eg. Grocery store), do cash side gigs. (Babysit, pet sit), then if it was still not possible, I’d downsize to a smaller apartment/condo in a less expensive town.
Looking for some gift suggestions! My soon-to-be 18-year-old niece has been living with us for the last few years for reasons that are sad and complicated. She recently graduated HS and has decided that she will be moving into an apartment with a friend next month while she takes a year off before college.
Due to the aforementioned sad and complicated circumstances, we’ve had some high highs and low lows over the last few years, but she’s a great kid and I’m so proud of how far she’s come. The last few weeks have been extra challenging, as she seems determined to burn every bridge on her way out the door and is pushing buttons left and right. The advice from the family therapist is that this is expected for a kid who’s been abandoned before and just to continue being the same calm, steady presence that we’ve always been. (Easier said than done, but we’re doing our best!)
With all that in mind, any ideas for a somewhat sentimental 18th birthday gift that she won’t scoff at? Our current plan is to give her a pretty substantial cash gift to help get her on her feet, but I’d like to give her something to remind her that we’re proud of her and we’re here as a safety net if she needs it. Budget is probably less than $100 because I think she’d rather have the cash, but I’d be willing to go up if necessary.
A good sauce pan and a good pot for boiling water.
Maybe an electric kettle. I love mine.
I just want to say that you have done a really lovely thing for her and hearing this really does give me hope that people like you are out there.
+1000!
Something for her “hope chest” or new apartment—dishes, towels, bathmat. Even toilet paper, paper towels, laundry soap, cleaning products.
Also knives, cutting board, shower curtain.
Maybe your therapist has mentioned this, but look up the term “soiling the nest.” I would consider a nice piece of jewelry. My mom (we had a fraught relationship when I was a teenthat has somewhat gotten better over the years) gave me a beautiful watch. I don’t wear it all the time now, but I think of her and how she was really trying to help me when I do wear it.
I’d do jewelry too and would consider passing along an heirloom piece now. Something like that can speak volumes about the connection you want to keep.
Yes! I was trying to remember the exact phrase she used and all I could think of was “s h – t t i n g the bed.” (It kind of feels the same, to be honest!) Thank you!!!
I agree with something for the apartment. Maybe a gift basket of small OXO items? I would do the Good Grips Dustpan and Broom Set, plus the stainless steel colandar. Also I love my Pyrex measuring cups so a set of those would be great.
These may not seem super sentimental but I think of the law school friend who gave me my dustpan and broom every time I use it.
You sound wonderful.
What about a basic cookbook, and then a basket with a saucepan, a pot, a few utensils (wooden spoon, spatula) and then a few spices to get the kitchen started? Throw in a few cute dish towels and maybe a hard-to-kill tiny plant to make the place a little homey.
A blanket (or something else warm and soft) and a key to your house if she needs to come back home?
My aunt got me a wildly overpriced spatula rest for college graduation that was truly beautiful, and I had it for almost 20 years before a toddler accident took it out. Easy to pack and take with you in those early years where you move a lot, and felt so fancy using it with my cheap generic groceries!
Thank you, all! These are such good ideas! And I promise, I’m not a particularly wonderful person, I’m just a middle-aged lady trying her best to keep it together.
Something to give her a creative outlet. Does she like sports, the arts, improv? Can you buy her a museum membership or comedy class or season tickets to some minor league sport she likes?
I agree with the suggestions for a really good piece of kitchen equipment, especially if she’s shown any interest in cooking at all. An all-clad saucepan, a Lodge Dutch oven, a really good knife, or similar will make it easier to be a good cook and last a long time. And I love the fancy spoon rest idea! Although honestly I’d go with something that is careless roommate-proof so maybe a pan instead of crockery. Beautiful wooden salad bowl?
When I moved out at a similar age, I was given a small microwave. That was a great useful gift. Another favorite was a small tool set in a case (hammer, screwdrivers, etc), which I still use to this day. Later on, I inherited my parents used but still working washer and drier set when they upgraded.
I’d probably stay away from expensive cookware. I don’t think 18 year-olds would appreciate it and it would be too easy to steal. Roommates aren’t always dependable.
The suggestions about a cookbook reminded me – my maid of honor collected family recipes from friends and family for my shower and put them together in a lovely cookbook for me, with little notes from each giver – I treasure it. Perhaps you could do something similar – a collection of family recipes? Or a small artwork of a favorite spot/photo/your house? Etsy is a great source for this.