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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Draped Floral-Print Silk-Chiffon Wrap Blouse

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A woman wearing a pink floral printed chiffon long sleeve top and black trouser pants with black belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m loving the colors of this gorgeous floral silk-chiffon blouse from Victoria Beckham. The wrap silhouette is slightly unusual and the tie-neck is so chic. I would pair this with a pair of perfectly-fitting trousers for a sophisticated, business casual look.

The top is $890 at NET-A-PORTER and comes in UK sizes 4-14.

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280 Comments

  1. I need something like a pair of Rothys but without the colored stripe on the back (so: cloth, flat, that level of cushion, washable). What is out there IRL that is good? Birdies didn’t work and All Birds have been rejected in aesthetics and some reviews.

    2. I have no experience with them, but FWIW, Everlane has some on sale for $38 right now – the Day Glove in ReKnit. Final sale though.

    3. They’re not ballet flats, but I really like my Cole Haan fabric wingtips.

    4. Just a warning. I used to wear fabric sneakers like that and owned a bunch of different colors. I would never wear them with socks. And I ended up getting a toenail fungus infection that has been impossible to treat. Over the counter topicals, a host of derm visits that did nothing, and finally a long and grueling process of laser treatment and prescription topicals finally has me on the mend as it all grows out now. But be very careful that you’re washing and FULLY DRYING the shoes regularly and cleaning your feet well before and after use. That sort of fabric just traps moisture like nothing else.

    5. you could probably just color over the colored stripe on the back if you don’t like it

  2. For Acura SUV owners, how did you decide between the MDX and RDX? I have a CRV, which seems similar to the smaller one and am looking for something for me when the CRV becomes the teen driver car. I have an aging Odyssey that is our large hauler, but it has no safety features beyond airbags, is hard to deal with in an urban parking garage, etc so am leaning towards the larger Acura (didn’t like the larger Honda offerings, but have loved the Odyssey among all vans I’ve ever tried and the CRV but they are very different cars).

    1. We had the MDX years ago (actually had 2 of them back to back). 2 kids but we did lots and lots of carpooling (and my niece lived in the neighborhood and it often felt like we really had 3 kids. My SIL and BIL were not hands on, so we almost always brought our niece with us) so had plenty of times we needed the 3rd row.

      Also had a dog and a shore house, so often had 1-2 adults, 2-5 kids, and a dog driving down the shore on weekends.

      The MDX was our only “big” car. Other times we had a sedan or a small SUV, but the MDX was the only car we ever had to seat more than 5.

      1. Thanks. We have just added nondriving local parents to the mix, so that will be a factor even as the kids start driving or move. I hate having to convoy locally.

    2. So is this to replace the CRV or the Odyssey? I like my MDX a lot, but it doesn’t have the cargo space our old Sienna has. For camping trips or longer road trips with more than four people we use the minivan. YMMV, but it’s just something to keep in mind – nothing’s quite like a minivan when you have a lot of people or stuff!

    3. I’m a great person to review since my family has owned a CRV, an Odyssey, two MDXs and I currently own an RDX. I have liked all of them. The CRV is a great teen car if it has safety features. I loved my Odyssey for the separated 2d row seats to reduce kid arguments at a particular stage, and loved throwing bikes in the back without the need to put the rack on the rear. The two MDXs were also good for carpooling days. I switched to the RDX once the kids were out of the house. It’s also good but feels significantly smaller cargo wise and my empty trash bins do not fit in the back to haul them up my long drive. FWIW, the CRV, the Odyssey and both MDXs made it past 200,000 miles; the RDX is past 100k and I am planning for the same longevity. I’m happy to try to answer any specific questions.

      1. Thanks — super helpful (and the one below). As much as I love the CRV, I feel that if I lose the minivan or just want to take a much newer / safer car on longer trips, I will miss its relative size.

        1. I’m the above owner of all the models loved my minivan. None of the others can touch it in terms of capacity and ease. I’ve actually fantasized about getting another minivan. BTW, for crowded parking lots when someone parked too close, I loved the ability to enter through the sliding rear door and the climb up front. I park in a city garage with small spaces, and there are times when I truly had no other way that I could have gotten into the van.

    4. We have an MDX and an odyssey. The RDX doesn’t have a lot of trunk space and has no 3rd row option. We rarely use the 3rd row but it’s good to have it. If you have at least one kid of adult size, you’ll want the MDX. It comfortably fits adults in the back.

      FWIW, the MDX and Odyssey are about the same length. MDX is slightly shorter but if parking is a concern you may make a different call.

  3. Any advice on dealing with a “trafficphobe?” My father is one of those people who will leave an event early to beat other cars out of the parking lot, drive at inconvenient times to lessen the risk of traffic, and turn down plans that might involve traffic. He’s aware of this and is actually the one to say “trafficphobe” and that he’s trying to be more relaxed about it, but with no success so far. I scheduled a father-daughter adventure about 2.5 hours away that I know he’s looking forward to (it’s an activity he loves), but his traffic (and driving, really) anxiety now have him trying to tack on a convoluted plan involving a third driver and swapping cars on the side of the highway to reduce traffic risk and drive time for him. It’s starting to affect my enjoyment of what was supposed to be our first father-daughter adventure in years (we didn’t live in the same state until recently) and his little plan will also greatly increase the inconvenience for me. He’s retired and does not have formal demands on his time; I work full-time with a baby in daycare, so I’m also finding it irritating that there is this additional schedule pressure with no good reason for it. Any advice on salvaging this?

      1. I should have added to the original post that he is in therapy and on medication (the focus isn’t traffic, but another mental health issue and obviously anxiety). He’s genuinely trying but he’d be the first to say there’s been no real change on the traffic issue.

        1. Is it driving in traffic or just traffic? Im not sure why everyone is jumping to a decline in his driving skills when, in my experience, people who react poorly to traffic itself are often just as anxious as passengers.

        2. Are people on the medications he’s on even supposed to be driving? (A lot of anxiety meds count as driving under the influence.)

      2. This cannot be a real response. Be less lazy.

        Lots of people are traffic-phobes and adjust by leaving earlier. It’s a perfectly valid response. That should be the answer before any stopping on the side of the road is considered.

    2. Dad, I’m sorry you are anxious but I’m not able to change my plans to accommodate that. As you know, I have a full time job and a baby and this is already hard for me. If you’d rather cancel that will be disappointing. You could also take an Uber the whole way there if that’s easier. I’d like to see you and this anxiety is making it hard, I wish you’d tell your doctor that your anxiety is getting in the way of doing things you want to do.

      And yes I have literally told my dad this and it somewhat worked. He’s elderly an anxious and I roll with it but he’s also now on anxiety medication and is much more able to do things.

        1. I don’t think so. I love my father and he knows that. And him adequately treating his anxiety improves our relationship and his quality of life.

          And like. At the end of the day he raised me

        2. I actually think this is fine to say when someone is behaving irrationally to this degree. It’s not a normal situation where being polite works.

        1. This has been a popular comeback here lately and it never makes any sense with what it’s responding to.

          1. Makes perfect sense to me. The script supplied by the poster is incredibly rude and distancing. It’s not the way you talk to someone with respect and love, so presumably is what one adopts if they hate their family and are looking to show it.

    3. Is there a chance that your father is not anxious, but instead has correctly assessed that his driving abilities are declining? If that’s the case, is there a way for him to come to you before the activity and you can do the driving to and from the activity?

      1. This. People here are way too quick to label any risk assessment as “anxiety.” An older person’s ability to handle heavy traffic will decline before their ability to drive on straight, uncrowded roads.

        1. Yes, consider that he may rationally uncomfortable driving in traffic. 69 and in good health doesn’t mean he can drive like he used to

      2. No, shouldn’t be an issue. He’s a fit 69-year-old and is a good driver (haven’t seen any signs of decline myself). He just really hates traffic and crowds.

        1. He sounds like my mom. Same age and everything. It has gotten worse in the past five years. Like your dad, she is not going to change at this point, so it’s up to you how much you want to bend to his plans. (I would NOT be willing to switch cars on the side of the road!)

        2. A 5 hour round trip in summer highway traffic would undermine my enjoyment of any activity. That’s not ‘anxiety’ that’s thinking the annoyance outweighs the fun.

          1. OP here and we’re staying the night so it’s 2.5 one day, 2.5 the next. It’s for the return trip that he’s proposing the new “let’s swap cars on the side of the highway” plan that’s too convoluted to even get into here.

          3. I’ve found that as I get older, reframing the little annoyances of life to be “worth it for the fun at the end” has made me a lot happier. If I waited for perfect traffic, weather, and prices before doing anything, I’d be doing staycations only and slowly going mad.

          4. That’s still a high ratio of car to fun time IMHO. I wouldn’t drive that far for less than a 3 day weekend.

            I don’t think you can argue your way into convincing him the drive is fine- instead look for creative solutions (like Uber or Lyft prebooked for him – we’ve used it to go from Philly to JFK for a flight) or find a closer activity.

        3. I mean, so do I. 2.5 hours in traffic is a nightmare and I wouldn’t agree to go somewhere requiring that. Nothing is that fun.

    4. Is he elderly to the point of maybe shouldn’t be driving? My dad handles NYC area traffic before decades and eventually became a local / daylight only driver for the past decade of his driving. He maybe should have stopped but then my mom got sick and he was the sole local family member who had to take her to appointments etc. So it may be that with his cognition and processing speeds, this is actually a safe choice for him (other than changing cars on the side of the road — that seems to be unsafe given how many cars I see using the shoulder as a lane). I have a teen driver now who is at the beginning of the spectrum and also afraid of anything but known practices local routes to familiar places. Sometimes the anxiety is legitimate (and also annoying to deal with).

    5. Can you do the driving? I find driving to be such a PITA that I think I might be like your dad, I want to avoid other drivers as much as I can. I’ve stopped driving. But I really don’t care if someone else is driving and I’m a passenger in traffic. There’s a difference in my mind between driving in traffic and being in a car in traffic.

      1. I really hate driving these days but I’m certainly also afraid of how it will limit me if I stop. Have you really stopped altogether? Do you live in an area with good public transportation?

        1. I’ve been without a car for 10 years, but yes I’m in an area with very good (well, very good for US) mass transit. I use the train or bus for work, and pretty much everything else I need is within walking distance.

      2. This seems like the easiest way to do it. Make sure there are plenty of stops for bathroom and walking around. Maybe even pick a place on the way there to stop and see the sights. Make the journey the adventure for him, and the only burden (driving) is on you.

        2. OP here and that’s a good idea – weirdly (for someone with traffic anxiety), he has no problem making roadside stops for attractions even if it adds to the total travel time.

          1. I don’t think that’s weird at all. Traffic is about delay and constant vigilance. Making a fun stop is the opposite.

          2. OP, I think you need to stop being so dismissive of what can actually be warranted anxiety. There is a huge difference between having to pay attention to constant stops and starts and your reaction time as you age versus stopping somewhere for a break along the way. They are not at all the same level of annoyance vs. relaxation. I think you need to accept that his reality may be quite different than your perception and decide what’s best to make things flow better as others have recommended.

          3. He himself says he he’s a trafficphobe and that he wants to “chill out more” about it. Trust me, this isn’t a safety issue. I can’t convince random internet commenters of every nuance, I know, but I promise you this is not a safety or delayed reaction times issue. This is an anxiety issue he’s had his entire life. If he had any delayed reaction times at age 19, it was only because he smoked too much weed while driving to ski bum trips.

    6. You said he’s 69, and he’s in therapy and on meds already? I don’t think you can change this, you can only arrange it so he doesn’t have to drive – e.g. you do all of the driving. Can he take a bus, train, or even hire a cab to meet you at your destination? In my experience with aging, anxious parents – this is likely to get worse as he gets older. He cannot be what you want him to be.

      1. This entire board needs to commit your last sentence to memory. My aging parents have quirks that I don’t exactly love and make their lives harder than they need to be at times. But do they want to change? Absolutely not. Harping on those things is only going to damage the relationship.

        1. Absolutely. I see so many self-centered things posted here about dealing with parents. There have been posts about wanting parents to provide unlimited free child care while also obeying draconian restrictions on what the kids can eat and do, wanting to control what and when aging parents eat, insisting that parents move, etc. You can’t control other people. You can only control your reaction to their behavior. If you don’t like your dad’s plans for avoiding traffic, the proper response is to cancel the outing. Boundaries are about what you will do, not what you insist that others do.

          1. I don’t know, I would hesitate to cancel the outing unless it really just isn’t feasible in a way that would make the dad comfortable going. You never know how much time you have left with someone. I’d look for another solution if at all possible.

          2. That’s exactly where I’m at – my dad and I both want to do this outing, he will LOVE the place we’re going, and we always have a great time. I’m so aware that there may not be many good years left; two of his siblings have died of cancer in recent years.

      2. No bus or Uber options this time – we’re doing a day river trip in a rural area. There will be traffic on the interstate until we hit our local highway turnoff and then it should be fine.

          1. We’re carpooling because my household is one car (which my husband needs for the baby). My dad was the first to suggest carpooling in his car (otherwise this trip won’t happen) and would love a road trip with me *once we get started.* It’s the anticipation that’s the problem.

          2. Rent a car, which you drive. Or you drive your dad’s car, but maybe the issue is he’s not comfortable with that. Or hire a driver for the day.

            If none of those options work, maybe the joy of the trip isn’t worth the anticipatory anxiety for your father.

          3. could you rent a car with cancellation, maybe? just as backup peace of mind for him (and hopefully you can cancel it like 48 hours in advance?)

          4. My 40-year old husband grew up in a rural area and now we live in a city. He absolutely detests traffic. He has no problem driving long distances without traffic, and can even enjoy that. But he also will do all kinds of things to avoid traffic, including the type of stuff you’re describing.
            The only solution that we have found is for me to drive when we go most places, which I don’t mind doing. He doesn’t mind traffic nearly as much if he is the passenger, although he still doesn’t love it.

        2. Rent a car for the weekend and have your dad pay for it. That way your husband can have a car and you can have a car.

        3. There is always a way to make this easier. Leave a day earlier or later to avoid traffic or have him do that if you’re going separately.

      3. +1 to this, as frustrating as it feels. You can’t change another person, you can only change what you do in response. Here, I wouldn’t be willing to give up on this trip as you never know when/if you’ll get another chance to do this with your dad. So figure out a way that you can arrange transportation that works for you both.

        If there is no other such option, then you’ll have to cancel, but I would really make this work if you can

    7. I have parents with similar hang ups and I just want to validate that it is so hard and frustrating, especially when they have an abundance of time and I don’t. But I don’t think there’s a way to change this, unfortunately.

    8. My mom is about his age and is very rigid about driving times and amount. (I literally just drove almost four hours yesterday to her even thought I’m on fumes after busy work projects and a conference because she would never do that.) Even if you are fit as you age, your night driving and other vision isn’t as sharp. Doesn’t really matter the reason though. If anyone is telling you they aren’t comfortable driving, believe them. Risk around operating large machinery safely is still more important than any fun that is being planned to fit into your schedule.

      1. this. My FIL has been a skittish driver for the 15 years I have known him, has limited peripheral vision and is not great under stress. I’d love for him to stop driving altogether, and I know it’s a hassle OP, but don’t look this gift horse in the mouth.

      2. OP here and I could easily do all the driving to and from. That’s not the issue.

        1. So he wont let you drive it all? Be a little clearer about what he wants to do, and how much it will interfere with your quality of life?

    9. Is he ok? Are there other issues that may affect his driving like vision? Wondering if he’s feeling it but wants to keep driving.

      This is not uncommon for older people—I once had a couple leave their house at 5am for an 8:30am volunteer shift. They would take surface streets instead of a 15 minute freeway drive. Often there’s a reason for the anxiety, and the desire to remain independent.

      Have you asked him what’s going on? Honestly, as frustrating as it might be, it could be more fruitful for your relationship to just adjust to how he is.

    11. Change the plan. Your dad is 69, he’s not going to change on this unless he wants to. Don’t swim against the current with him and just make plans that work well for both of you.

      1. For real. If the goal is spending time together why make it so hard? If it’s stressing him out, it’s not worth it. Would you pressure a friend this way? Probably not. You’d change the plan.

        1. He says he wants to go and is really looking forward to it. I think me canceling would upset him far more than the traffic anxiety ultimately does. It’s something we both want to do and won’t be able to do forever – it’s an active trip that I doubt he’ll be able to do in 10 years, if not sooner.

          1. You seem hell bent on ignoring his needs on this. If he were making you do something with your baby that you weren’t comfortable about but justified as “it will be worth if for the fun” I’m sure you’re perspective would be a little different. There are really only four options here: Go with his suggestion, suggest something else where you’re not burdening him with driving that he has clearly said he doesn’t want to do, find another activity entirely, or don’t see each other at all.

          2. How am I ignoring his needs? It’s a voluntary trip he says he’s looking forward to. He could cancel anytime and hasn’t. I can’t prevent traffic from existing but we have a very reasonable, normal plan for driving to and from that is in no way an imposition on him. The issue is he has proposed an anxiety-driven roadside switch that makes no sense.

            There is no other way to do this trip other than driving. Again, if he wanted to cancel he has every chance to. He says he doesn’t want to.

    12. My sister is one! And she’s 35 so it’s not due to aging. She will harp on the traffic for days before a trip. She is a person who lives and dies by a schedule so I think that loss of control is contributing to the anxiety… whenever we do things together she will list out the whole day with timing and remind us five times. (I kind of think she is undiagnosed autistic given this and other quirks, but my family doesn’t “do” mental health.)

      How do I handle it? I acknowledge I’m not going to change her. And sometimes I can push her comfort zone a little so it’s a compromise. But I do most of the driving to where she is, even though I have more kids. We take one vacation together a year. And we avoid Fridays and “rush hour” as best we can, because those really send her.

      1. “She is a person who lives and dies by a schedule so I think that loss of controls is contributing to the anxiety…”

        Thank you. I just learned something about myself, courtesy of you. I hate traffic also, unless it is so bad bumper to bumper and creeping or still that I recognize that I now have zero control over my schedule. I suspect that I am on the spectrum, toward the low end of things, but still there.

        1. I don’t think you have to be on the spectrum to want control of your schedule.

          1. There are other things too. Don’t think I really need to list them all here as it is not pertinent.

      2. This is my aunt to a tee. When she’s in charge of when she leaves, she will leave ridiculously early (like, before 5 AM) to avoid any traffic at all. Any traffic just leaves her absolutely panicked. She cannot handle it. She lists out plans like 6-7 times. I am certain she is autistic based on this and many other things.

        TBH I just try really hard to not have to drive with her because she’s terrible.

        1. Yeah, there are genuinely people like this and it’s not just aging or lack of safety behind the wheel. It’s anxiety.

          1. I’m not sure that anxious drivers are the safest drivers. ND drivers in particular are not always the safest depending on deficits (so if there are slower processing times, issues with attention, issues with spatial perception, or issues with getting overwhelmed, none of that is conducive to driving).

          2. Yeah, anxious drivers aren’t safe drivers. They react in ways that other drivers aren’t expecting, which causes accidents. And while I’m sure that there are many people for whom anxiety is purely psychological, I suspect that there are many others where it’s due to not feeling like they’re fully in control of the car, due to slow reaction times, vision issues, or spatial processing deficits. They probably shouldn’t be driving in heavy traffic and pushing them to do so makes everyone less safe.

          3. You have to accept some level of risk in driving if you ever want to go anywhere and do anything.

          4. It’s one thing to accept some level of risk for oneself and another thing to accept that level of risk for other people. It’s not the fault of people with impairments that society makes going anywhere and doing anything so hard without driving, but we need to achieve more inclusive transportation options; we don’t need to pressure unsafe drivers into risking the lives of strangers.

        2. I do this. I see no reason to sit in traffic when I can just leave at 4 or 5 a.m. to get to a trip destination. Same reason I take the first flight out when I go anywhere, or the red eye. I’m not trying to jostle for space with the rest of the world.

    13. OP here and to respond to a lot of comments at once, I can do all the driving (and have said as much) and it hasn’t changed the traffic-specific anxiety reaction. In every conversation, he has confirmed he wants to go (using words like “can’t wait” and “it will be a blast”) but he literally cannot seem to stop himself from voicing anxiety that traffic will be bad. The only thing I ask of him is that we don’t do a preposterous roadside driver switch (meeting up with a third person) in 100 degree heat and I don’t think that’s unreasonable, since I am also a person with valid needs. If he refuses to let that idea go then I will cancel, I guess, but it would be a big shame to allow anxiety that much power over the day when lots of realistic, comfort-improving solutions (like me driving, leaving at reasonable times, etc) are available. The one thing I can’t do is wave my magic wand and make all traffic disappear.

      2. Why not meet a 3rd person at a safe location to add to the trip? Who cares if it is 100 degrees? You are inside a car. What are we missing here? Is the person who would join you an extra hour out of the way? Someone you don’t want to include?

    14. Just another point to consider –

      My mom started being flaky about road trips when she was your dad’s age, more or less. We lived a 3 hour drive from each other. Most of the time my husband and I would drive to her, but there were occasions where she said she’d come see us (like one of the kids having a recital kind of thing, where we couldn’t just do it in her town). So we’d get everything ready and be expecting her, and she’d bail last minute.

      It absolutely was anxiety. And I feel your frustration, because I found it so frustrating at the time.

      But how much was I realistically going to change my 70 year old mother? And realistically, how much are you going to be able to change your father?

      I never did succeed, and it wasn’t long before she decided to stop driving. Maybe it’s anxiety, or maybe it’s just your dad and my mom recognizing their diminished driving skills. These things happen gradually and of course they are anxiety provoking.

      My advice is to change your plans, not bank on changing your dad, because that is an exercise in futility. It’s hard to accept that our parents are aging, but it’s inevitable, and you need to learn to live with it. He’s not the same person he was 10 years ago or even yesterday. Time catches up with us all.

    15. You’ll be taking your child on adventures soon. Now is not the time to relive past activities with your dad. You don’t say how much time you spend with him, but why make him do something that scares him in order to spend time with you? Can;t you adjust to his lifestyle and enjoy less active pursuits?

    16. I cannot speak to your father exactly, but I dislike driving, especially for more than an hour and/or in unfamiliar areas and after dark. Due to my ADHD, I tend to find it boring or terrifying. Unfortunately, it took years to figure it out, and in the meantime, friends thought I didn’t like them enough to visit if it was within driving distance. I manage this by traveling by train, plane, bus, and subway when I can, and prefer to travel to cities with decent public transit and walkability instead of cliffside vacation spots.

  4. my heart goes out to anyone here impacted by the flooding in Texas this weekend. It is heartbreaking watching it all unfold. i can’t imagine how petrified the victims must have been in their final moments. sending lots of love your way. and if you are waiting for someone still missing, hoping for a miracle

    2. I keep thinking of those kids at camp and their families. I have kids that age, and it has hit me so hard.

    3. Does anyone have a gift link to the article “One rescuer’s account of saving 165 people at Camp Mystic” in the NYT? It sounds like (from the preview) that one person saved that many people and I would like to read it. It’s an unimaginable tragedy.

  5. I’m still so curious about those posters who said their husbands would “never” fill up the gas in the cars or that hell would freeze over first, which implies that it wouldn’t happen even in a time of real need. How does the conversation go when you ask? I’m picturing:

    “Hey honey, I broke both my hands and can’t pump gas. Could you please take mine to the Chevron down the street?” “Nope, do it yourself when you heal. It’ll wait.”

    “The baby has been clusterfeeding all day and I couldn’t fill up before her appointment tomorrow. It’s on empty now. Can you please run out and fill up?” “Nope, you should have thought of that before or just taken her crying.”

    Seriously, how do those convos go?

    1. That’s exactly how it goes, but they make excuses that ‘hes just independent’.

      1. I’m sure if she had two broken hands he’d fill the gas tank for her. But it’s one thing to be a man’s pretty pretty princess vs his partner in life who helps carry the load.

        2. Would he, though? I could totally see (like a poster said below) a husband like that coming back with “why do you need gas if you can’t drive anyway”? Anything to be argumentative.

      1. Is there another way to interpret “it’d be a cold day in hell before he’d fill my tank?”

    3. Those convos were so interesting to me as well. I grew up in a family that was very much focused on doing it yourself and a focus on growing up as fast as possible so I could take on more.

      One of the things I really appreciate about my DH is how he notices and does the little stuff. We definitely have our issues with division of labor but for the most part he’s pretty good, and he often offers to take my car to get gas especially before we’re about to leave town on a trip (since mine gets better mileage). I remembered that thread yesterday when we were coming back from a road trip and definitely had enough gas to make it back to the Costco near us with low prices, but he insisted on stopping an hour away to fill up.

      1. I would be annoyed by spending the extra money! To me that wouldn’t be a sweet gesture, it would be a waste (which goes to show that different people have different valid opinions, something these pot-stirrers won’t acknowledge)

    4. I suspect at least half of those posters are not actually married and/or have never asked their husbands to fill up their tanks, much less asked them in an actual emergency. We have a fair number of pretty obvious sh*t stirrers on the subject of “Men”.

      1. And the OP here is also stirring the pot, trying to start up the thread for at least the third time!

      1. Suit yourself, but would truly love to know what those convos look like. Do they end in “go f yourself?” What can I say – to quote a coworker speaking about himself, I’m a “messy B who loves drama.”

      2. Actually I take it back, because it just now occurred to me why we never had this “fills my tank up” dynamic. My cars have always been stick and he can’t drive them. That being said, it never occurred to me that this is something he should do for me, because we drive ourselves to work, handle our own maintenance appointments, etc. But we pick each other up when our cars break down, he met me at a gas station the first time I ever had to put air in my tire, to walk me through it.

    7. “I’m busy too.”

      Doing dishes loudly and angrily.

      Silent treatment.

      That’s how those conversations went. I am happy divorced now, and my workload has gotten so much easier.

    8. I have this exact issue. In my family growing up, my dad always filled up my mom’s gas tank as well as the kids. I have asked my husband a million times to get gas for me weekly. Yes I could do it, but it is just one of those things that I would rather he do. I don’t like pumping gas, having to be wary of getting car jacked etc. I feel like it is something he can easily do for me. The division of labor in our household is not equal – I do so much more and also contribute way more to our earnings. It really bugs me that he doesn’t do it. Sometimes he does but he often forgets, even after he says he is going to do it.

      2. I’m certain he reacted well to your reasoning of “I might get carjacked at the gas station.”

        1. Hey, you don’t know where the poster lives. In my “safe” town we have had many carjackings. I always try to get gas during the day.

          1. You don’t live in a safe town if there are “many” carjackings. You live in an unsafe town.

      3. I don’t think one adult can assign another adult chores like this, and have it happen exactly the way they want.

        1. A man is probably a lot less likely to get carjacked than a single woman. I don’t think it’s a reasonable fear if OP lives in a safe area, but if she doesn’t, it might be.

      5. I think it can be dangerous to look at what other women have (like your mom, for example) and think “Why can’t I have that, too?” We are all susceptible to this, so I get it, but we all have spouses who operate in their own individual way, and we might have to accept that what we get (whether these things are hard/easy to give) is different than one someone else might get from their spouse.

        1. +10000 Run your own race, and don’t use other people’s habits to determine your own happiness.

          My husband works a lot. Frankly, I’d hate it if he were taking five trips to the gas station to fill up a whole driveway of cars when he could be home with the family! Maybe your dad was avoiding you, lol…

      6. Wary of getting carjacked??? You have invented a fantasy in your mind to justify work for another adult that you are more than capable of doing.

        I think the difference in these arguments is that there are truly people who don’t consider putting gas in a car YOU drive, meaning YOU are responsible for the gas being consumed, is a division of labor chore. But if that’s your feeling, then why don’t you divorce your spouse over it?

      7. Fun story- when I was a new driver at 16 I was pumping gas on my way to my summer job. A bunch of police office officers swarmed the building- there was a manhunt the previous 24 hours before and the individual turned himself in at the gas station. Pretty scary for a 16 year old! Ever since then I have been weary of gas stations. My husband knows and is more than happy to fill up my gas tank if he has extra time. HA. Bless him.

      8. Was getting gas gendered? I get the sense this was an old-timey thing men would do, like mowing the lawn. I kind of wonder if that is why people think the whole to-do about insisting husbands get gas for their wives is weird.

        1. To me, absolutely. Cars and yardwork have traditionally fallen in a man’s purview. Which is why I am having a particular chuckle over the people digging in their heels about it being a sign of a husband’s love or whatever on this board of “progressive” women!

    9. If you broke both your hands, you wouldn’t need gas in your car because you couldn’t drive.

      I am one of the posters who drives it down to empty, and put gas in my husband’s car more often than he does in mine! But I thought of this board on Thursday when the whole family loaded into our van for a long drive and as soon as we started the gas light came on. (It’s “my” car, but husband drove it most recently because his doesn’t fit all our kids.)

      I DID find that annoying. But nothing that caused lasting resentment. My take is that in the course of life and marriage this is such a small thing it’s unwise to make it a Big Issue. This is one person wanting to control the habits of another. (Unless there’s other baggage…but then it’s not really about the gas)

      1. That’s fine and probably wise, but you presumably weren’t in labor with a high-risk pregnancy, which changes the calculus considerably. It’s ok to let people we love know that we need certain things from them, like help with gas and assistance during times of stress and physical disability. These are the people we love, not strangers on the street.

        1. She had a car with a fully loaded tank that they could’ve driven if she was actually in labor.

      2. I was once in an accident that made it hard for me to tightly grip the gas pump, but I could grip the steering wheel (and needed to drive, because walking hurt).

        My friends pumped gas for me.

    10. I guess I don’t understand why my husband needs to get gas for my car. I can get it while I drive it, on the way to wherever I’m going. Like when my kids were babies, I just stopped on the way to or from the doctors office and it was not a big deal. Do you live somewhere without convenient gas? Or were you born in New Jersey and never learned to pump gas? It’s pretty easy and takes only a couple minutes. My husband does plenty of nice things, but getting gas seems pointless. I would never get gas for him unless I was driving his car.

      1. Totally – in ordinary life, it makes sense for the person driving the car to fill up on the way. Sometimes it can’t happen for various reasons, though, and it sounded (last week) like some husbands won’t ever help even if it’s a rare exception or special situation.

      2. Same. We each have our cars, and we live like 2 blocks away from a gas station in a safe area, so this a such a non-issue to me. I think my husband has occasionally filled my tank if he borrowed my car, but otherwise never and it’s never occurred to me to care. If I was somehow incapacitated and/or asked him to he probably would. But it’s just not a thing I care about?

      3. I have a hard time remembering last time I touched a gas station nozzle. Maybe months ago?

        My husband keeps my car filled up because he loves me and is a big errand runner. We both use my car about equally (he has his own car too but mine is more convenient, usually) so when he’s out and about doing the errands on his list (an actual physical list!) he includes filling up the car.

        If I got in the car and it was on empty – which never happens because it’s not great for the car – I would go and fill it up. But that doesn’t happen because 99.9% of the time my husband has made sure there’s gas in it.

        1. This is a different case than expecting your husband to make a separate trip to fill up a car he never drives. It’s a normal courtesy/necessity to fill up the car you are driving when the light comes on, and my husband will do that what he’s in my van (which he also drives a lot because it’s the car the kids fit in).

          The leap is saying that your husband doesn’t love you if he doesn’t go out of his way to fill your tank. That’s an arbitrary barometer, and reasonable people can disagree.

          1. We absolutely do not wait until the light comes on! Looking at the gas gauge is a thing. I don’t know why people think they need to run their car down to fumes before filling the tank.

          2. Having 30-40 miles left on the range is not “fumes”, and it’s not a character flaw to wait for the light. People are strangely moralistic about this!

          3. Some people actually hate going to the gas station. I am one of those people and would never voluntarily go if I had over a quarter tank of gas.

          4. Lucky you! I live with my brother, who uses my car and does not notify me when it’s empty. When I finally got fed up and told him that I had run late to appointments several times and was worried that I would one day run late for an important appointment, he said, “You should have told me.” Isn’t that a logical consequence? The few times I have had an in-person job interview or a morning funeral to attend, I have repeatedly spoken up to make sure there was enough gas in the tank.

    11. It used to be that this kind of morning after pot-stirring would get shot down quickly and I am very sad to see that’s not happening here.

      1. People like lively debate. Better than the usual “what kind of shoes should I wear for this event” or “how do I elevate my kitchen kettle?”

  6. Considering a solo 3-day weekend up to Providence, RI (traveling from NYC). Worth it? Where to stay? Most importantly, where to eat/drink?

    1. I would go to Newport or somewhere more quaint. Providence is just kind of Boston lite and not that interesting.

  7. Car shopping seems to be a common theme here! DH and I are looking for a small hybrid SUV. Anybody have any favorites? Have considered a CRV, Subaru Ascent, and the Ford Escape.

    We have ruled out several already. I like the Hyundai Tucson, but DH is not convinced that Hyundais are better than they used to be. I feel the same way about Kias, lol. We owned a RAV4 in the past and it was a lemon, so not willing to try again.

    Primarily, we’ll be using this for in-town and highway driving.

    1. We just got a Hyundai Tucson and it’s great – better features and less road noise than its competitors in the class. I’d encourage your husband to at least test drive before ruling it out. The safety ratings are very good.

      1. That’s encouraging. I really like the Tucson based on the specs, but we haven’t tested it yet.

    2. these are all solid cars. i would do a little research on how local people feel about the service units at the dealers near you and let that be your guide.

      1. Fair point. The Honda dealership in our town is solid, which partially explains why we’ve now owned two Odysseys! The Toyota dealership is abysmal; I’m not sure about the others (though they seem popular).

    3. CRV hybrid is amazing
      But also it was bought from a very convenient local dealership vs everything else was a longer trip for service. So factor that in — maintenance matters.

      1. Mazdas are in my view underrated. They have the CX 3 model that I own and like very much.

    4. I have a Kia Telluride and LOVE it. Kia and Hyundai have really come a long way in the last decade. FWIW, I had 2 Subaru Outbacks before this, and they were AWFUL. The first was a total lemon – left me stranded before it was a year old. I thought I had a dud and traded it in for another, because Subaru has a great reputation after all. It was no better – terrible, constantly malfunctioning touch screen that left me totally unable to adjust the air and heat settings, screens that went black all the time, etc. The dealership was constantly installing “updates” to fix the issues to no avail. I’ve had the Telluride for a year with zero issues.

    5. LOVE my Ascent. I totally thought I would get an Odyessy or a VW Atlas. Ascent feels like a small car to drive but you sit up high and it takes 8 passengers.

    6. Another Hyundai tuscon hybrid owner here. Have had it for over a year now. I test drove CRV, RAV4, Volvo xc60, Corsair, etc. I thought Hyundai tuscon was best value for money and no regrets.

    7. my mom has a CRV and loves it. She’s done a lot of solo highway driving in it (4+ hour trips to sick family) in rural areas and no issues. Can’t speak to kids or carseats but as an adult, the backseat is reasonably comfy. Her priorities are safety & reliability. Also we’re in the upper midwest so important to handle winter weather well.

  8. Does anyone have experience with Citron Santa Monica silk tops? Wondering how well they stand up to other silks in terms of comfort, durability, sheerness, etc. They look beautiful online, but are they worth the investment?

    1. I *love* them and grab them whenever I can, specifically second-hand. I worked for a boutique about 10 years ago that sold the brand and they are very worth the typical second-hand price. They are a tad sheer, they are often fragile but I’ve popped mine in a delicate wash/mesh bag and air dried and they are fine. The one thing I’d say is they run a touch small/narrow, I’d size up to get that loose/lagenlook style that the brand intends one to have. The real unique value to me isn’t the silk per se, it’s the designs and cuts/style + the silk.

  9. Where do you look for hair cut / styling inspiration? I have thin, straight hair (but a lot of it) and have worn my hair in the same shoulder length, all one length style for years. It’s never been fashionable, but is starting to feel less fresh. My hair stylist is sweet, but when I’ve asked her for ideas she tends to give me the exact same cut. Is it time to find a new stylist? Ideally I’d like someone to say “based on your face shape / hair type, these styles would work and be more updated” but I’m struggling to get there.

    1. I find new ideas on Instagram. Pinterest used to be a good source, but unfortunately there are so many AI-generated hair images these days that I have all but given up on finding new things there.

      Your stylist may need an image to replicate. But also, if you keep getting the same cut even when offering specifics, it may be time to find someone new.

      2. On the flip side of AI, when I think I want a new style of some kind, I ask ChatGPT to generate an image of me with that style (upload a selfie) and it’s helpful to see whether you’d like it or not.

    2. pretty much everyone i know has a version of what you are talking about. as with all trends the trendier your hair is the quicker it looks outdated (doesn’t everyone have a woman in their office who still teases their bangs?) I would start keeping my eye in my community for a woman whose hair is like your’s but more/ better and ask them who they go to. Or proactively start looking for someone at a higher end/ trendier salon.

    3. Instagram. It’s was tough finding a new stylist post pandemic, and it’s how I found mine. And it’s great for finding inspiration, just use hashtags. I like it because it’s still where regular people will post so you can see how something will look IRL.

    4. The trick is learning to style your hair. A cut only matters if you’re going short. If you’re keeping medium to long hair, learn how to curl it, put it up, straighten it, etc.

      1. Hard disagree. My hair is long and greatly affected by the skilled cut by my stylist.

        1. Okay I exaggerated to make the point – yes, someone skilled with layering long hair will make a difference but you must learn to style it. A cut alone will not save the day.

          1. Cut is very important if you have fine hair. No layers and it looks flat. Too many layers and it looks thin. The layers and face framing have to be just right to create volume but still preserve fullness. I agree that styling is important, too.

          2. I don’t know – the magic of my haircut is that it looks great without styling. I either comb it wet and blow it dry or air dry. I honestly don’t know how to do more.

    5. Adding longer face-framing pieces (between lip and chin length) can help modernize a basic cut. Also, how are you styling it? SO much of keeping hair current is in the styling. If you have shoulder length hair, you can experiment with parting it (current trends are closer to the middle than a deep side part, but anything goes), setting it in loose waves, or wearing it straighter.

      1. Isn’t it more current to keep it all one length? I think the layers make it look like a throwback to Friends (the TV show)

        1. There’s a difference between 90s layers and cutting long hair for movement. The latter is very current and what people with great long hair do.

    6. It may be time for a new stylist. Look for a salon where you like what they post on Instagram, how the stylists look etc. Last Halloween I really liked the wig I wore so I told the hairstylist that as a general guideline.

    7. Same hair type, same hair cut, same desire for stylist who can make those decisions. Although I feel like this is just the best cut for my hair.

    8. Thanks, all! Appreciate the advice to do some Instagram scrolling and inquire about layers “for movement.” May you all have excellent hair days ;)

  10. I think my usually just slightly wavy hair is becoming curlier. Curly enough that I need to start treating it like curly hair and using products meant for that etc. Any favorite curly hair shampoos or products?

    1. I have fine wavy/curly hair. It was never totally straight, but after my first pregnancy, it got very curly.

      I like Innersense. The daily shampoo works best for me. The hydrating shampoo was too heavy for my hair on a daily basis, though I use it occasionally if my hair feels super dry. I also use the Jessicurl Confident Coils and Innersense Volumizing Foam. It was a lot of trial and error for me.

    2. My hair changed like this a while back. First I just went through a period of bad hair. I still haven’t it all figured out but there are more good hair than bad ones.
      I had to step up moisture and nourishment a lot. Random conditioner, Kristin Ess hair mask, and rosemary oil. I’ve enjoyed Kristen Ess stuff although I don’t know how it compares to other brands. The smell is nice for me. For the curls I’m enjoying Kristen Ess curly cream.

    3. I’m enjoying cecred. I have also been using innersense gel in the summer, but otherwise, I’m pretty low maintenance. I also like some of the curlsmith products and the not your mother’s mousse.

    4. This happened to me too. I switched to MopTop daily shampoo and light conditioner, plus a mix of MopTop leave-in conditioner and Opalex #6 in the summer when it’s humid or JVN Air Dry cream in the winter when it’s dryer. If I really want to encourage the curls, I do MopTop leave in and then MopTop gel (let dry and then scrunch out the cast with your hands). Flip your head over, scrunch products in, and then stand back up and gently arrange/reinforce curls. All of the stuff I use is really light because I found if I used heavy things my curls/waves got weighed down and just looked stringy and messy.

  11. OK, people who understand AP coursework, help me out here. (AP was not offered at my rural high school so I feel clueless on how to help my oldest, who has many more options.) He got a 4 on his AP exam. That seems fine to me, but he is absolutely freaking out that he didn’t get a 5. He already got an A for his final grade in the class that counts toward his GPA, so I can’t see how a 4 is the end of the world. Kiddo has VERY high expectations for himself academically, to the point that it worries me. And I truly don’t understand where it’s coming from, as DH and I are not into high-pressure parenting.

    I guess I have two questions:
    1) A 4 is absolutely fine, right?
    2) How do you help bring a high-achieving kid back down to earth?

    1. 1. Yes, a 4 is absolutely fine. As someone who went to a high pressure school, I can relate to the feeling that anything <5 is failure, but the reality is that a 4 is very good on the AP scale when looking more broadly at expectations for the content.
      2. It may help to reframe in the context of "What is the purpose of this score / taking an AP exam?" Will your son still get college credit at their target schools (awesome!). Alternatively, the college I ultimately chose gave very little credit for APs (they were viewed as so ubiquitous) – so the score may not matter. Is it to prove to himself that he knows the material (then maybe an A in the class is more reflective of actual mastery of the content vs. one exam). Long story short, help your kid reframe from the score as a number to what it means – that will help him to reflect more deeply on whether it matters to him or not.

      1. My personal feeling is that AP is kind of a racket and probably doesn’t matter much to the schools he is most likely to attend, but it matters to my kid, so I’m trying to be supportive. I like the idea of reframing it to focus on his mastery of the material and his desire to challenge himself.

        1. My understanding is that APs are great at less competitive schools (where the applicants are less likely to have taken them) and basically useless at more competiive schools where all the applicants took them.

          1. That doesn’t make AP courses useless at more competitive schools. It makes them the required baseline.

        2. I think it’s great that you’re able to keep the results in perspective (I too agree AP’s are a racket, but a price of admission for certain schools) while simultaneously supporting your son’s feelings. Your approach to understand why he feels disappointed and help him process those feelings is important and will help him build a valuable skill of working through disappointment when life doesn’t go to plan!

      2. College professor here. AP scores only matter if/where they’ll apply for credit. They do not matter for competitive schools, which are unlikely to give any credit for them. They also do not figure into admissions. Taking AP courses might figure into admissions (eg, for competitive schools, what they take into account is whether your kid challenged themselves, and AP courses are often the equivalent of upper-level honors courses). But the test scores don’t.

        1. Yep – if he’s interested in state schools, he may be eligible for some credit from AP classes. My NY state school gave me a lot of credit toward electives based on AP scores. At the time you needed a 4 or higher to receive credit.

    2. 1) A 4 is great.
      2) Just listen and be someone he feels safe venting to, without trying to change him. I have a similar personality. I like having challenging goals and meeting them. As an adult, I am much better at handling disappointments, but this is a skill I honed over the years. Your son is still learning how to manage his feelings, and that’s okay.

    3. 20-ish years ago I was able to get college credits for 5s on my AP English and History tests. That’s the only benefit of tests that I remember, and I think you could still get credit, just less, with a 4.

      1. At most colleges you either get credit or you don’t; the amount of credit isn’t contingent on the score. At most schools and for most tests, a 4 is sufficient for credit.

        OTOH, if he is very intelligent and a very good writer and was very well prepared for the exam, he’s entitled to feel some disappointment in a 4. If not all of these things are true, then this is a learning opportunity. Does he need to improve his writing skills? Study more? Or was it just truly inexplicable, in which case he can learn to let it go?

        1. That is just not true. Lots of colleges give credit only for 5 (or 4s and 5s) or the class you get credit for depends on the score. For example at the very nonfancy State U I work at, you get credit for a 3 and above for physics but the class you get credit for depends on the score. 3 = physics for poets, 4 = physics for engineers, 5 = physics for physics majors. So you really need at least a 4 for college credit if you’re intending to go into STEM.
          A 4 is certainly not the end of the world but it does affect college credit. And admissions.

          1. It does not affect admissions. It doesn’t go into your GPA nor does it go on your application *unless* you’re trying to place out of a pre-req.

          2. It is absolutely standard at elite schools to submit AP test scores to the admissions office. It’s self-reported, so it’s a little different than GPA or SAT score where the school finds out what it is no matter what, but at the Ivies and similarly selective schools it’s very standard for kids to be submitting at least half a dozen 5s, and it will hurt your application a bit if you don’t have strong scores to submit. 5s on the vast majority of your AP exams is the baseline at elite schools. Is it insurmountable to not have that, no, but it’s definitely a factor.

          3. As someone who works in admissions at a competitive school — if/when it is a factor, it’s a very small one. Very small.

            For those of you who are basing their knowledge about admssions on a very small data set (eg, your own memory or your own kid) please don’t extrapolate so boldly.

        2. He says he should’ve studied more, and maybe that’s true. I also know that the AP exam hit at a crazy busy time for him, and I don’t know when he would’ve made that happen. IIRC, he had also been ill a few days earlier. So it’s very possible that he didn’t have his best testing day, but I’m not concerned about his test-taking abilities.

        3. It depends on the test. I only got a 3 on French, but I got 12 credits for it which meet my foreign language requirement. I think I was able to get other credit with a 4, but in another subject they’d only take a 5.

      2. In the 90s we were told that scoring a 5 or a 4 got you course credit at nearly any college, anything lower did not. I’d agree with your approach that it’s fine to feel disappointed that he got a 4 and to figure out why that was. I also think AP exams are a good readiness indicator for college. I was an English major who eked out a 4 on AP Calc A/B by the skin of my teeth (and SO much studying/tutoring) so I was pretty damn proud of that score. If he’s getting a 4 in a course that is required for his major that’s valuable information to know and worth sitting with – did he not put in as much effort? Or was it harder than he expected?

    4. It’s fine, not great. It may or may not get you college credit at all colleges and even if he’s allowed to, I would be careful about placing out of prerequisite classes with that score (depends on the class and college). I wouldn’t freak out about it, though, just try to figure out if it’s an issue of not understanding the material quite as well as needed or being a bad test taker. The course grade is meaningless, unfortunately, due to grade inflation.

      1. Getting 4/5 on a very difficult test does not make this kid “a bad test taker” FFS.

        1. Actually a 4 could mean he is a poor test-taker, if he was well prepared. The AP tests are just not that difficult if you know the material. I got 5s on most of mine with little prep other than taking the high school course. I got 4s on the history ones because I hated history and my history teachers and didn’t do most of the homework or read the textbook or study at all.

          1. I agree. I got 5s on AP Bio and AP Chem without even taking the class. I had honors versions of the classes at my high school and got a Princeton Review book to fill in the blanks. I tried doing the same thing with history and got a 4, but I also hated history and I left one (of three?) essays basically blank, so I pretty much bombed the exam.

        2. The AP tests aren’t really that hard. Getting an A in the class is typically a harder bar than getting a 5, at least at most schools.

        3. If you truly only understood the material well enough to get a 4, that’s fine. If you knew the material well enough to get a 5 but only got a 4, then you had issues with taking the test and it’s worth figuring out what those are before you take more of them. You can improve your test taking skills, but that would be a different focus than if you were struggling with the subject matter.

          1. I saw your post above about him being busy and being sick. In that case, it seems more like a case of time management and health issues more than anything else, so that’s probably the most useful lesson to take going forward. Don’t cram all your studying in at the end, and while getting sick is unlucky, sleep and nutrition can help make that less likely at high stress times like the end of the school year.

    5. The AP people publish the score distribution for each exam. Sometimes, a 4 is still top 20% or so, which should be encouraging.

      1. It’s usually at least 20% of people getting a 5, with another 20% or so getting a 4.

    6. A 4 is great and many schools would count that for something. I went to engineering school so my 4’s and 5’s on English and history APs counted towards gen eds that I now didn’t have to take. My AP physics grade didn’t count for anything since they wanted all the engineering students to take their physics anyway. AP classes helped me feel better prepared for college regardless of the scores/credits.

    7. I’m 20 years into a career and more successful than I ever could have dreamed. To date, my proudest accomplishment is getting a 4 on the BC Calc exam.
      I was not good at math, and it bothered me. I spent a summer doing extra coursework, so I could scrape my way into the advanced math class with all other ‘smart kids’. (Years later, I cringe because the school was filled with smart, interesting people and I was so focused on the gifted label, but I digress…) I studied harder in math than anything else, even when the math teachers told me that I should be held back. My grades improved over high school, and the crowing achievement was a 4 on the AP exam.

      Tell your kid that this is all about perspective! He’s thinking small. He needs to think bigger about his life and what it all means.

      1. +1 – I posted about this above. I know now I have dysgraphia, and was always good at theoretical math (concepts) but straight number focused math (stats, percentages) is like I imagine reading with dyslexia would be – hard, slow, and I need to double check my work often. My AP Calc teacher flat out told me I wasn’t smart enough to be in the class.
        My B+ in statistics and 4 on my AP Calc exam are two of my hardest worked for grades in my life, and I say that as someone who graduated magna cum laude from an honors program.

    8. It’s completely fine! It’s a good score. I have a teenager who freaks out about stuff like this, and my suggestion is to listen to him for as long as you can stand, make supportive-type comments, and then let him be. It’s hard to watch them twist themselves up about stuff like this but it’s important for them to go through it. One grade, one score, one activity isn’t going to be the difference between having a happy life and a miserable one.

      1. This, 100%. Listen and let him vent. Then please let him process, for himself, what it feels like to live an imperfect life. It’s important in the long run and this is what the job of the parent in this situation is.

    9. Lets focus on 2- his score is massively less important than being able to roll with punches, learn from mistakes and not melt down in adversity.

      Can you drill into why is he so upset about getting a 4? What does getting a 4 mean in terms of schoolwork, competition, keeping up with friends etc.
      Was there something he could have done differently? If so, what would the cost be (not getting to do X because of studying)? What did he benefit from not spending extra time studying (i.e. did he get to do something cool?)
      What would he tell a friend who got a 4 on an AP test?
      Are his friends also in the high pressure high school game? Who is giving him the impression that a 4 is a failure?
      Seriously, does he need a therapist or anxiety management?

      1. His self-esteem is definitely wrapped up in academic achievement, something we have worked on and will continue to work on. He does run with a high-achieving crowd, and I’m pretty sure one of his friends is a legit child genius. They do not look down on him at all, from what I can tell, but he has a strong desire to keep up.

        Kiddo also has ADHD, and there are many things that are very difficult for him, social interactions included. However, he happens to be very intelligent with a strong desire to learn, so he’s learned that academics is the place where he shines.

        He is already in therapy.

        1. Ooh, much sympathy- I’ve been where your kid has been (high achieving ADHD with high school friends who all went to ivies vs. a flagship state school for me).

          Weirdly, perfectionism can be an ADHD thing- the inability to decide that a bad score doesn’t matter that much is hard for folks who don’t get to decide what to focus on or ignore. This is absolutely something to bring up with his therapist to figure out coping strategies+ how to compare himself to neurotypicals. He’s going to struggle with some things that other people don’t, and that isn’t his fault, but he does need to make concessions + figure out strategies that other folks get naturally.

          PS: no one has cared about my AP scores since my freshman year of college, and all the other posters warning about how this may not count for credit can take a walk. Tell him you’re proud of how hard he worked+ know that he’ll be ok.

          1. ADHD makes it really hard to aim for average in my experience (I can aim for an A and get a A or B, or aim for a C and fail, metaphorically). It can definitely contribute to perfectionism!

          2. This is helpful re: ADHD and perfectionism. I am incredibly proud of him for so many reasons. He is a hard worker, but I also know that even with his underlying intelligence, ADHD ups the ante on burnout and anxiety. That is something I’ve struggled with myself, much more so than my even-keeled DH.

    10. Enh, if he’s high achieving, it’s not the end of the world but it’s also not great. At my HYP 15 years ago you needed a 5 to place out of course work and a 4 wasn’t necessarily be something you included in your application stats. So no placement credit and no application value seems like it sort of defeats the point of doing it. I’m assuming it’s more rigorous for those schools now. But perhaps other tiers of schools may have different standards.

      2. at my Ivy while scores could help you place out of classes you got credit for almost nothing. and placing out wasn’t always a good thing. my high school didn’t have AP classes bc they didn’t believe in teaching to a test. i ended up sort of retaking a math class i took in high school in college and it was a blessing in disguise. it gave me a lot of confidence, i understood the material MUCH better the second time around, which allowed me to perform better in upper level coruses

        1. also, i was like your son. i put A LOT of pressure on myself and at one point it kind of all came crashing down. i encourage you to help him figure out why he is so upset and if you/he can’t, get him help from a professional who can

      3. Same; I went to an elite school and pretty much everyone had 5s on all their APs. And this was 25 years ago — I believe there’s been substantial AP score inflation, just like grade inflation (i.e., a greater percentage of kids now score a 5 than they did 20 years ago). You wouldn’t even submit a 4 to admissions, I don’t think.

        Does this mean he’s a bozo who’s never going to amount to anything, of course not. But if he’s shooting for Ivy+ school it’s a reality check that he’s probably not going to be admitted to that tier of school.

        1. Just wanted to weigh in here—I went to an HYPS (and graduated with honors) after attending a very ordinary public high school around 10 years ago. I was not first in my high school class. I definitely got a smattering of 4s on AP exams in addition to 5s. I think I included all of my scores in my application and it was obviously fine? I know it’s more competitive today, but he will probably be OK with one 4! For what it’s worth, a bunch of other kids from my high school with more 4s than me also got into Ivies/Public Ivies/elite SLACs. I was also the type to put a lot of pressure on myself, and I think the best thing my parents did for me was completely butt out of my school life and my college applications. They never reviewed my applications and just asked me where to pay the fees, ha. The best thing you can do for him right now is show him that you trust him and know he has it handled, because this will show him that he can trust himself!

          1. It’s really a completely different world today. I interview for my alma mater and would have almost no shot of getting in today – and I had a 1540 SAT, 4.0 unweighted GPA (my school didn’t do a weighted), tons of AP and college classes, with mostly 5s on exams where applicable, and some desirable extracurriculars like national-level recognition in a (non-NCAA) sport and scientific research lab experience.

            I agree if this is one 4 in a sea of 5s, it’s pretty much meaningless, and with the added context of him being sick, it sounds like it’s not a big deal or indicative of his broader academic performance. I don’t think anyone is saying that someone who gets a bunch of 5s and a couple of 4s can’t go to an Ivy. But if it was actually a sign of him struggling to get scores above 4 due to lack of understanding the material and/or poor test taking skills, it would be a sign that the most elite schools are probably not where he should be aiming.

        2. OP here, and I do not care even a little bit about my kid getting into an Ivy League school. That’s not what we’re aiming for here.

    11. 1) I had enough AP credits to skip a year at my very competitive college and never got a single 5 on a test (with the caveat that this was 10 years ago). I remember feeling embarrassed that I never managed to get a 5, but in the end it really didn’t matter. I also remember hearing other kids saying things like, “well obviously I got a 5 – that test was so easy,” which as an adult sounds ridiculous and full of BS, but which added to that embarrassment.
      2) In some respects, he’ll probably just have to ride this out and there is not too much you can say, but I think validating the feelings (“I know it feels really bad to not have gotten the top score,”) but continuing to gently put them in context (“a four is still a great score, you worked so hard to study and should be proud, you don’t know yet that this will have any negative consequences, etc.”) is always helpful. I’m a big fan of the mantra, “If it’s not happening now, it’s not happening,” when it comes to anxiety. If he’s worried that this will affect his college applications and performance, then he’s jumping ten steps ahead, but it’s hard to know that when you’re that age.

    12. I also didn’t have AP classes at my rural school, but I did retake my ACT to get over 30 to help my college exams. But also, I took my GRE math section multiple times to increase my score and never did. I still was able to get into top 10 programs.

      That being said, when you are a competitive person, you just have to learn to deal with disappointment. I think if he wants to retake the exam if that’s possible because he doesn’t feel he did his best, then that’s ok. What I would suggest is working on accepting where his strengths lie. In my case, I don’t test for math well because I don’t perform things like geometry well under pressure. There are certainly testing strategies to learn to compensate for those issues. However, in my case, it was a product of not being taught the information in a way that suited my learning style. But also, I am not pursuing a career where I use geometry. I learned the areas of math, in my case, that I did enjoy and went on from there.

      I think it’s a balance of supporting someone wanting to try again to do their best and accepting where their talents are in the long run.

  12. Does anyone have experience with their local Rotary Club (Senior Attorney, I believe you do?) and have any thoughts/comments about the experience? I’m looking for more community engagement and thought this might be an interesting way to go about it.

    1. Great topic. I was considering joining Rotary or Kiwanis. I am sure it is city/locale dependent but if anyone has thoughts on which one is preferable, please let us know.

      1. Here are are lots of very rambling thoughts. Short version: DO IT for community engagement. I highly recommend.

        The specific club type seems to be very city/locale dependent. I’m a member of the local Lions Club, because that’s what is in my town. They don’t have Rotary or Kiwanis. I joined when I was 27 and was younger by decades. :D It was actually really fun. I’ve been a member for 10 years and love my Lions friendships and feel really, really integrated into my community because of my involvement with the club.

        The next town over has a Rotary Club, but I wouldn’t drive over for that because they do stuff in their town and I want to be involved in my town. I also am friends with a few people in that club and their onboarding requirements were crazy – like multiple things a couple weekday mornings a month for a few months, getting certain tasks signed off on, etc. It sounded way too formal for me, although I’m sure their members are very well trained by the time they are full members.

        Two towns away the Lions Club only allows men, which I find absolutely ridiculous and I boycott their events. I just found out about the men’s only club a couple of years ago, and I’m still steamed by it. Our club is completely led by women – like 80% of the leadership is women – and they’ve allowed women for many years. I won’t quit our local Lions club because we obviously don’t have the problem, but I also really hate that the bigger Lions Club doesn’t have rules against the local clubs being sexist.

        In general, I have a strong dislike for any type of hierarchical organization – I won’t get involved in the “higher up” – I don’t go to Zone/Regional/State meetings or leadership trainings, although they are certainly available and seem good for those who do them.

        Frankly, if I could belong to my local organization without being a Lions member, I absolutely would do that. However the Lions organization gives a structure for the club to exist, there’s a rich very long local history to the club that I do value, and so it is what it is.

        Okay all of that said, I love the friendships developed from doing community events with the fellow members and feel very integrated into my community. I didn’t grow up in this small town, but I definitely feel very at home in it and that is absolutely because I got super involved in the community organization (Lions).

        1. Wow, so crazy that they still have single-sex clubs in Lions!! Fun fact: It was the Rotary Club of Duarte, California, right next door to Pasadena, that sued Rotary International in a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and resulted in a ruling that service clubs like Rotary and Lions could not exclude women.

          Another fun fact: The Lions Club’s special project is being of service to the blind and visually impaired, and every year we do a joint project with them where our Rotary club collects used eyeglasses and turns them over the the local Lions Club.

          1. I thought it was sooooo wild when I found out. That’s fascinating there’s an actual case law about it; I’ll have to go find that sometime!

            Now when other clubs are asking for donations to projects, I always ask if they allow women and I won’t vote to participate in their project if they don’t.

            The Lion Club’s service to the blind is very meaningful and quite impactful. We collect eyeglasses at our local bank, and then give them to be reused at a Lions Camp. Additionally, our club is on a major highway and helps transport donor eye tissue between hospitals – wild to me that that’s a service project for us. We also donate heavily to the Leader Dog program (which provides trained dogs for legally blind people at no cost to them), provide free eye screenings in schools, pay for eye glasses for children who couldn’t afford them, etc.

          1. Oh, just stop. Men have historically been at the top of the power structure in this country (still are) and they used private, men-only clubs to perpetuate the exclusion of women in business and civic life. When traditionally excluded groups form their own clubs, the same policy considerations are not at play. Fer cryin out loud.

          3. Exactly what Senior Attorney said. It’s not that difficult.

            FWIW we don’t have any all women or all men clubs in my little town. Even the quilter guild has a couple men members. We’re in rural midwest county that votes stupid red, so it’s not like I’m in some California liberal bastion either.

          4. I’m not convinced that all socialization outlets being women exclusive or co-ed is optimal for women.

    2. Our local Rotary is popular in my area. But my friends who join do it primarily for building up business contacts / sales. Like my financial advisor friend does it and schmoozes.

    3. I have been in my Rotary Club for almost 15 years, am a past board member and president, met my husband there. It’s a service club so a great way to meet others who are interested in giving back. At our club, if you join to get clients you are likely to be disappointed — not saying it’s not gonna happen but it takes time and you’re not allowed to spam the membership list with professional emails. Best if you join for the friendships and the service and let the business opportunities arise out of that.

      As for Rotary vs. Kiwanis, I’d just look to see which has a stronger presence in your community and do that, although I have to admit I’m a die-hard Rotarian so all things being equal that’s what I’d choose.

      1. In case it isn’t obvious from the above, I love it and encourage anybody to give it a try. And yes, even if you’re decades younger than most of the members. We LOVE our young members!

        1. I’ll add one other thing for young people – if you’re childfree, these clubs are SO AMAZING for finding other smart adults to be friends with. They’re well out of their child-rearing years, mostly retired from professional jobs, and therefore very smart and interesting to talk to because they aren’t kid-focused.

          I love my best friend, but her life revolves around her kids. It’s really nice to have my service club friends who definitely aren’t in that phase of life.

    4. In my smaller Canadian city, Rotary is the place to be and meet the upper echelon of business, law etc.

      Kiwanis is more working class/tradespeople I think? Which also might be fine if you are not looking to be ‘on’ with potential business contacts all the time.

  13. Did anyone read the story in the NYT about the 77-year-old woman “scrambling” to find an apartment? Sounds like she wasn’t kicked out but decided to leave because the manager at her “forever” home, who “treated her like family,” offended her by suggesting she would have problems with the stairs eventually?

    1. I just read that article, I agree she was not left scrambling, she left voluntarily because of her ego, I wonder if she’s a commenter here 😂

    2. Insane. Betrayed and holding a grudge because someone kind asked a question that seems reasonable.

      1. Honestly that story reminded me of both my parents and inlaws. Both sets are both in bad health, refuse to do anything to proactively accomodate their bad health (moving to a single level home, moving closer to family, hiring home health aides, etc.) even though they have the money and have offers of help from family. They are also super offended by the fact that the kids all pushed them to get wills/end of life plans in place. It’s a lot of magical thinking and ‘it’ll be fine!’ attitude combined with raging at family members who point out that it isn’t going to be fine.

        1. Me too. My in-laws refused to anything proactive to accommodate getting older and now they live far away from family in a two-story house that isn’t great for my MIL’s current condition (can’t really walk or stand for any length of time). And plenty of money, but no home health aides or cleaning help.

      2. Right? Looks like she landed on her feet, fortunately. But in no way was she forced out.

    3. Can someone gift link this? I love these sorts of delusional people who create their own problems due to ego. Probably why I still read here so much, haha.

          1. OK but if you’re going to talk about how hard it is to find a reasonably priced apartment in the Bay Area, or unscrupulous landlords finding ways to oust long term renters (both of which are worthy of coverage!), maybe cover a story where it isn’t a self-inflicted wound?

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