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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Envelope-Neck Ponte Dress

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A woman wearing a brown dress and black boots, standing next to a wooden stool

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Universal Standard keeps making different versions of this popular ponte dress, but this envelope neck might be my favorite one so far. I love their soft and stretchy ponte fabric for a comfy but still work-appropriate look, and the short sleeves provide plenty of coverage if you’d like to go without a topper.

If the envelope neck isn’t your thing, it’s also available in a crewneck and a V-neck.

The dress is $138 at Universal Standard and comes in sizes equivalent to 00-40. It also comes in five other colors. 

Sales of note for 10/3/25

  • Ann Taylor – 40% off must-have styles, and 30% off your full price purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 25% off
  • Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 40-70% off everything + extra 60% off clearance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Fall style event! 25% off $500+, 30% off $750+ — try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Nordstrom – 1000+ new markdowns!
  • Nordstrom Rack – UGG up to 40% off
  • Soma -$25 off when you spend $110+, also get a free bra when you buy two
  • Talbots – 30% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $150+

195 Comments

  1. I have this dress and I like the way it fits me! I have got a lot of compliments on it from people in my office, and that is unusual for them because I have a lot of dresses, but this one they like i think because of the color and fit!

    1. Can you wear a normal bra or does the envelope part cut open wider than it looks on the model?

    2. I don’t think it looks particularly good on any of the models (I checked every color on the website.) What body type do you have?

    3. I used to have something like this in a burgundy color, and it was a real workhorse until I finally had to part with it. This may be a worthy replacement!

  2. If you were going to buy a power outfit this fall and wanted to look stylish but not trendy, what would you pick? I usually like The Fold for this kind of thing but none of the colors or styles are speaking to me right now.

    1. My go to is Veronica Beard blazers – they’ve go with everything and are cut perfectly with excellent fabric. 10/10 for all power day needs.

      1. There is a really nice blue VB suit on sale at nordies right now; I think there are a ton of blouses you could wear under hte blazer.

    1. Go with one of the other two necklines. I am happy to see this dress offered with a v-neck, which is more flattering to my body type.

    2. I have two young kids, and i would have never thought that. Even after you saying it, I don’t really see it.

      2. I don’t get that either. If the envelope were functional, smaller, and more on top of the shoulders, yes, but not as designed.

    3. i couldn’t stand over the head onesies so i had zippers and snaps for all of the kids – that was when we didn’t just keep them in diapers and a sleep sack.

  4. Good morning! Has anyone ordered from Boden recently? Wondering if there will be a tariff? Thanks!

    1. Nordstrom has some Boden; I might try there first so you don’t need to worry about this.

    2. I just received two orders – no tariffs. They did raise their prices considerably this summer though!

      1. Same here. I’ve also seen at least one package sitting at its entry point into the US for longer than it used to. Unclear if that’s tariff-related at all (though I assumed there was some kind of backup there, for tariff reasons), but thought it was worth raising.

        1. The ending of the de minimis exemption is causing delivery delays. Customs and clearance is taking much longer.

    4. I literally just came here to ask the same question! Thanks to you and those who’ve answered. I will also share that Sezane does not make you pay tariffs, but I placed an order a month ago and it’s still not here, so something’s up. I think they’ve also raised their prices since the beginning of the summer.

      1. So the tariffs are probably already part of the price increase and there’s no worry about a tacked on charge?

        1. Depends – pay attention to shipping and don’t just do Apple Pay, I used to get a lot from Rixo London and they had a $200 tariff charge plus shipping so I didn’t order, but it didn’t show up until late in the checkout process.

  5. Going to NYC in October and hoping to take my kids to see the Lion King. I have no idea, how do you buy tickets? What are the legit sites to buy tickets and what are the scams to watch out for? Am I overthinking this? Any recommendations appreciated, I just want my kids (and myself) to have an enjoyable time! :)

      1. This is correct. Only start with the actual show’s website. There are different ticketing websites that shows use from there like Ticketmaster, Telecharge, Broadway Direct, and SeatGeek. The Lion King website will direct you to Broadway Direct, so use that.
        Never ever start with broadway.com or any website that isn’t the show’s own website.

    4. Go through the production’s webpage, which may redirect you to a site like Telecharge. (FYI, Telecharge is the ticketing system owned by the Shubert Organization, which owns many of the Broadway theatres that producers rent. The other 2 major owners are Nederlandander — Broadway Direct for tickets — and Jujamcyn). If you are actually in town, you can save money on fees by going in person. If there are discount rush tickets to be had, the TKTS booth is legit (run by the nonprofit Theater Development Fund), and many producers also use the TodayTix app to sell rush seats. But Disney shows are rarely discounted.

    5. I have a longer reply in mod, but the short answer is to look up the show’s website and book directly, or if you are in NYC, go to the box office in person to save on fees. Reputable discounters are TKTS/TDF and TodayTix, especially for rush and lottery seats. But Disney shows are rarely discounted.

    6. My kids and I loved the show. The concession lines were long and I was glad to have brought a few snacks. I did not find any non shady places to buy tickets and bought them directly from the theater.

    7. Buy directly from the theater. And be warned they are SO EXPENSIVE. Might I suggest Aladdin instead? We’ve seen both and my kids liked Aladdin better.

      1. Agree with buy directly from the theater, and counterpoint: I like the Lion King more. It’s one of my favorites. The puppets/costumes are just super cool to me.

        1. Make sure you’re on time, though. Circle of Life is hands-down the best part of the show. I teared up at how amazing the puppets and spectacle were!

          If it’s in the budget, get orchestra level near the aisle and the “animals” will walk right past you. My kids were all riveted and so excited by that! My boys liked the whole show. I think my daughter fell asleep in the second act, she preferred Wicked. :)

      2. I liked Aladdin more too. Also Lion King is currently touring the US so if you live in a major city you can probably see it locally. Aladdin is (currently) harder to see outside NY so I would do it for that reason.

  6. Recommendations for long-sleeve tee shirts for those of us with long arms? I am thin, small bust, size XS, 5’7”, with especially long arms. I am sick of tops that don’t quite reach my wrists.

    I want crew or V neck tee shirts I can layer under sweaters or wear on their own. Cotton or a cotton blend is good, though I am open to other fabrics.

    The best I have found is an XS Jones & Co / Jones New York cotton/modal/spandex black long-sleeve crew neck tee from TJ Maxx. They had only one and don’t regularly stock them. The fabric is substantial, it fits me well, and the sleeve length is generous. When it wears out I will cry.

    An XS Tahari long-sleeve tee of the same cotton blend, also from TJ Maxx, fits almost as well.

    What doesn’t work: The sleeve length on Target’s “A New Day” long-sleeve cotton tees is too short. Same with Eileen Fisher’s silk long-sleeve tops (not that I am looking for silk, but that’s all I have for a fancier black long-sleeve top). I don’t remember all the brands that don’t work, but I think I have not had luck at Lands End, Eddie Bauer, and most places I try.

    1. Buy tall shirts. Personally I’m a fan of GAP, lots of their styles are organic cotton and come in tall.

    3. BR, Gap, and ON and the factory versions all have tall shirts, as does Lands End. My 5-8 daughter often checks these places first.

    5. Boden’s sleeves are long enough for me.

      Have you tried Eddie Bauer’s tall sizes? Even though I’m only 5’8″, I need the extra length.

      1. OP here. Good tip to try the tall sizes, I didn’t realize that might work with shirts!

      2. OP here. Good tip to try the tall sizes, I actually did not realize that was a thing for shirts! Thank you!

    6. I’m 5’6″ and have never bought a shirt I’ve haven’t had to roll up the cuffs or have the sleeves professionally shortened. Obviously I’m a T Rex, but let me know which brands have short arms.

    7. Have you tried H&M? Swedish and Danish brands can have longer sleeves in their regular sizes.

    8. Duluth Trading Co. I have perfectly average arms and their sleeves are inches too long for me

    9. 5.8 and broad shouldered here (i have to size up anything structured with sleeves from s to m to get comfortable shoulder)

      probably too casual for your needs but, free people. They have a basic extra long sleeved long sleeve that I use standalone or as a layer under flannels, sweaters and jackets. solid colors, scoop neck style, with thumb hole. I wear one atleast twice a week from october through april.

      Ive been able to find them in second hand shops a couple times and scoop them up when I do.

  7. Help me find shoes for a navy pantsuit. Something in the camel to brown family. Flats with presence? The SE Loraine loafers didn’t work for my feet.

    1. I love cordovan with navy – something like these? https://www.stuartweitzman.com/products/sovinnie-flat/SM455-N4E.html?ogmap=PLA%7CACQ%7CGOOG%7CSTND%7Cc%7CSITEWIDE%7CMain%7CSW_RTL_Google_PLA_Signal_NA_Generic_National_PMax_NA_BAU%7C%7C17928847853%7C%7CUS&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SW_RTL_Google_PLA_Signal_NA_Generic_National_PMax_NA_BAU&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17413591629&gbraid=0AAAAADlsBsL-NbRGuaXJnxjq_RdynJ7M_&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq53d9vbfjwMVxEb_AR1sWyZ-EAQYASABEgKIwPD_BwE

      1. Are they wider than the Loraine loafers? I find the SE ones to be very narrow, and I don’t even have particularly wide feet.

    3. I always wear black. I find other colors look frumpy and a black and navy intentional combo looks sharp. Wear a black belt and top too.

    4. Cordovan, camel, or tortoise shell would be my picks. I’ve been drooling over these since they came out:
      https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/stuart-weitzman-emilia-tortoiseshell-leather-flats-0400021993782.html?dwvar_0400021993782_color=DARK+BROWN&site_refer=CSE_GGLPLA%3AWomens_Shoes%3AStuart+Weitzman&country=US&currency=USD&CSE_CID=G_Saks_PLA_US_Women%27s+Shoes_High+LTV%3AAll+Shoes&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20046150222&gbraid=0AAAAADO6JtTDuDFvsit3t81iAPSwL8Jlu&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuKnGBhD5ARIsAD19RsYgRb5WDXJR-OxtcpDnKIqt3nvyR_dPv96ppQaXeTqUhAgsKoMvoSsaArgsEALw_wcB&dwvar_0400021993782_size=7.5

  8. DH and I have been married for 20+ years. We’ve had a solid, healthy marriage, and yet, midlife is throwing us (or me, at least) for a loop. We are excellent partners. But between work, tween and teen kids, aging parents, and life, we are not doing a great job of connecting as a couple during this phase. Even date nights are rare, for Reasons. It does not help that perimenopause has decreased my drive to garden and even affects my desire to be touched in a non-s3xual way. Basically, we’re not connecting in a romantic way, and I feel like it’s my fault because I’m exhausted, I feel unattractive, I want to be left alone by everyone, and I don’t have much drive anymore. I don’t even feel that bothered by the lack of libido, other than knowing that it’s probably affecting my relationship. And then I feel resentful that my DH, being a man, doesn’t have to deal with any of this stuff. It also does not help that he is at a high point in his life, career wise, and I am … not having a great time of it.

    Given how solid our relationship is, I did not see this coming. Any advice from people who have been there?

    1. Commiseration. I miss the old me. And the old me’s free time. My time is squeezed from all directions and I need space and time to recharge.

      1. This is exactly it. I’m depleted, and it’s hard to pour into a marriage when you’re feeling stretched thin already.

      2. And my advice is that I need more pleasant G rated time with DH. Like even a quick dinner out together. It can’t be nothing but getting grabbed and propositioned and complained to. That ain’t working.

        1. Agree 100%. I have been there and we have done well by scheduling lunch dates. Our kids are in elementary, middle, and high school so we don’t get any evening time or morning alone time together so we decided to just find time in the middle of the day.

        2. This topic is getting increasing attention among marriage counselors. It does not work for husbands to grope their wives while they’re making dinner and expect that to lead to sex.

        3. My comment just got eaten so trying again. This is becoming an increasingly common topic among marriage counselors. Men think they can just grope their wives while they’re making dinner and that it will be irresistible/a compliment. Or they’ll turn every hug or pat on the arm sexual when sometimes, the woman just wants a hug. It doesn’t work and it drives the woman farther away.

    2. I am in a similar phase and what works for us on a day to day basis are the little things – doing something nice for each other, whether it is a surprise back rub at the end of the day, getting ice cream after dinner and then taking a short walk around the block, even very small gestures like saying thanks for cooking dinner or texting a nice message. Sometimes we will send each other heartfelt emails just listing the things we are thankful for in each other – like when I made an extra effort when his sister was in town, he sent me a grateful note of appreciation. It sounds small but I think little things like that can you feel seen by the other person and it is good to feel appreciated.

      1. And I just realized you are asking more about romantic time so here is another idea that sometimes works for us: we will schedule romantic time when we know the kids won’t be home in the evening. And build the anticipation during the day – like I might text him funny emojis like an eggplant and heart lol. Then I will tell him to take care of the evening chores like loading the dishwasher etc while I take a long bath. He knows to light candles in our room and play music. Try it on a one-off basis – it can’t hurt! The downside is we do it more often and invariably sometimes it doesn’t work out and then he is grumpy lol. Good luck!

        1. Same, except we schedule for the mornings after everyone goes to school, and just get into the office a little later. I’m just …. not up for it by the end of the day anymore during the week. But in the morning, I’m less touched out, no one is going to come home early unexpectedly, etc. It started with once a week on a Friday, and now we even sometimes sneak in other mornings. Also, YMMV, but I’m really sweaty in peri-menopause, and I usually just feel kind of icky and stinky and gross by the end of the day. I feel more confident in myself when I’m freshly showered for the day.

    3. Start fantasizing about other men. Some of this may be hormonal, but a lot of this could be that you are tired of f ing the same man. It gets boring! That is normal. Anecdotally, more of my married friends suffer from low libido than the single ones. (Ducking tomatoes from the happily marrieds.)

          1. Yeah I don’t know about that. I married the one I liked. I don’t think I’m wired to like more than one of them.

          3. Ack!! Don’t do this with someone you know or see regularly though…..I’m happily married, attracted to the one I married, but had a really hard time shaking off feelings of attraction to someone I regularly see. Great for the libido at first, but seeing them regularly ended up with probably too much heat directed at that person. I cut off contact before it ever escalated to a point that would have hurt my marriage, but I was right up against that line.

        2. A similar idea is to read trashy novels – they get me in the mood sometimes and might give you a boost! I found a new app recently called Galatea that has tons of options. The first several chapters of most books are free so I usually just read a few to get in the mood.

          1. +1000 This is much better than fantasizing about some dad you see every week at soccer practice.

      2. Not real other men. This is what Outlander and Bridgerton are for.
        (I mean, also no shame in admiring a passing stranger).

    4. Take it in bites and throw some money at the relationship – get away for a weekend together somewhere nice, the kids will survive without you at this stage. Use that time to reconnect but don’t put s*x pressure on the trip. Carve out something easy for just the two of you once a week like meet for dinner after work or go for a walk together. Let your kids be more independent and take advantage of the fact that they’re older. Remember that your relationship with each other is the long game so this is all a lot more important than any other commitment. And talk to your DH about s*x if you haven’t – mine is also in a low drive stage and realizing we both felt that way took the pressure off and we enjoy just being together and touching each other again because it’s not stressful. And don’t underestimate the power of a hug and kiss in the morning and evening.

      1. This. In the throw money at it, we probably get a hotel room about once a month to every other month depending on travel schedules. Nothing like grabbing a 4pm strong drink from the hotel bar, going back to the room to get ready for dinner, and seeing where it goes.

        1. Same, but we no longer wait until after dinner (two drinks and we’re both toast). We try to make it a right after we walk into the room kind of thing.

    5. PS – for you, do a little shopping, get a couple of new things that make you feel good when you wear them and get your hair done however you do that. Those little things go a long way toward feeling attractive.

      1. This was my first thought. Tired, stressed, zero libido, don’t even want non-gardening touching. “It’s just this phase of life.” Well, yes and no. HRT is an option if the current situation is causing problems.

      2. HRT is not an option if you have had hormone positive breast cancer. In addition if you have migraine with aura there is an increased stroke risk. Yes there are non systemic creams and such that may help but HRT is the touted as a cure for all all over the internet/social media/etc, and as someone who falls into a category that it is contraindicated for, it is frustrating.

        2. The fact that it doesn’t work for everyone doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be suggested. It isn’t some fringe thing that works for some tiny percentage of women.

        3. Agree 100 pst. on the frustration, but since OP didn’t mention it at all, it might be something for her to put on her radar, including the v-creams. I know I didn’t really realize that patches or creams was an option for peri symptoms, and thought of it as something way down the line.

        4. OP here, and I am VERY hesitant to go on HRT. Historically, I have not tolerated BCPs and other hormone-based contraceptives very well. Hormones caused more problems than they solved. I have had migraines as well. I know everybody says HRT is awesome, but I am wary based on my past experiences. Not sure I’m willing to roll the dice yet again.

          1. Totally get where you’re coming from! I’ve been trying to figure out what might work out, and for me anything that’s simliar to BCPs is out, but anything non-oral is still on the table.

    7. If I’m not feeling it libido wise, I invite DH into the shower. I get a nice n-ked back rub and he gets a soapy hand job- we both feel loved, and for the part or you that’s all “ain’t nobody got time for that” it’s quick and clean-up is built in, lol.

    8. Living this now. What helps so far:
      – HRT for me
      – working out together in the evenings at home once a week even if only a half hour.
      – dropping the guilt on spending to take care of my appearance – dye at salon not at home without guilt, regular facials and massages.
      – walk the dog together for an hour at least once a week
      – making dates a priority. Sometimes this means we drop a kid at an activity and then go to a new coffee shop for an hour vs one of us doing drop off and then running errands.
      – accepting that we need to schedule and prioritize couple time.
      – Saturday nights are family movie night – 3 kids so they each take a turn picking a movie and then the 4th Saturday night is date night

      -work travel, illness, life interrupt the routines constantly but we reschedule and don’t cancel.

    10. definitely prioritize biweekly dates if you can. even just an hour or two away makes me feel so much more connected. or, learn something new together — that’s another favorite way to feel connected.

      failing that – i read somewhere that it takes 60 seconds a day to make a strong marriage — 30 seconds in the morning and 30 in the evening but you have to be 100% focused on your partner in those seconds. it’s embarassing how often that doesn’t happen, where we’re around each other all the time but i’m not really focusing on him or us.

  9. I’m attending a gala next week for the nonprofit where I got my first job after college. The attire is “formal or any outfit that feels elevated to you.” This is the first time they’ve held the event so I can’t look refer to photos from past years. Help!!

    Options in my closet: long black formal dress that shows more skin than I particularly want to display at a work event; short black velvet dress with long sleeves that doesn’t feel appropriate for the time of year; or short shift-style dress with very elevated beading and kind of a flapper vibe. My cat has recently been lighting money on fire with vet bills so I have a very limited budget to buy something new, but could look at my local secondhand places. WTH do I wear?

    2. I would do an Amazon tulle skirt and a sweater or blouse in the same color with bolder jewelry or your take on this combo. I’ll post a link, but this skirt is amazing and looks a lot more expensive than it is. Monochromatic looks plus accessories should work for this.

      2. I have a skirt very similar to the linked one from Amazon, in 2 colors. They are work horses, can be dressed up with strappy heels or down with fashion sneakers.

    3. I agree with the poster that says all those sound too fancy or overdone. Do you have a nice pair of pants and jacket of some type? A basic dress?

    4. I think option three sounds good! I don’t agree with people saying these are too formal or that you should just wear pants. Is this specifically billed as a gala? If so I think you’ll be fine with one of your options! Don’t wear the skin-baring one if you’ll feel uncomfortable the whole time.

      1. I would do option 2 or 3, and don’t worry about being overdressed. You could also ask the nonprofit’s development staff for opinions – those of us that work in this area tend to be female and on tight budgets.

      2. I’m also confused. It’s a gala with a formal dress code. The addendum (“feels elevated”) is there so that people don’t feel pressured to rent or buy a formal gown on a nonprofit salary budget.

        1. Agree. To me, a gala with this description means the dressiest option you have. Being slightly overdressed at a gala just means you come across as extra fabulous. Being underdressed conveys that you don’t understand norms. I would err on the side of red carpet rather than frump.

          1. I don’t consider myself a fancy high maintenance kind of gal (and I don’t have the budget to be even if I wanted to), but the day I turn up for a weekend gala wearing an outfit I’d wear to work is the day you’ll know I’ve given up on life.

      3. It’s a celebratory evening gala at a swanky local venue and it says formal on the invitation, so don’t worry, I won’t be showing up in work clothes.

        I will probably go with option 3, since it sounds like there’s agreement that a full-length dress isn’t necessary.

    5. The venue and date & time will inform advice here. Like, it’s 5:30-7:30 on a Wednesday? I’d go with a dark suit or sheath and some bold accessories. 8pm on a Saturday, sure, go “fancy.”

      1. It’s at 7pm on a Saturday at a pretty plush venue. I’m not showing up in work clothes.

    6. When you said “gala” I thought, okay, long dress.

      When you added “formal or any outfit that feels elevated to you” – I thought, okay, anything goes as long as the coloiur and fabric feels elevated. That would mean (to me in the Northern hemisphere), no pastels, linen or summer dress kinds of patterns, but shiny, velvet or lace could elevate a light color, but any dark colour would work.

      When you added “first time they’ve held the even” – I though – seriously, wear whatever. They have no idea. You have no idea. There truly is no real dresscode here beyond “elevated to you”.

      From what you described, I think no. 1 will be overdressed unless they actually called it a gala with formal gala attire – that’s not what the dress code says, though. I would choose option 3, that sounds great! And very lovely to be able to have a mini reunion with them!

  10. Has anyone (as part of an estate) valued sterling silver flatware? I have a feeling it’s not worth the 1000ish price to buy it new (and the value of the metal may be really what it’s worth). Other than by checking places like e-bay, my life isn’t like antiques roadshow, where I could get old things appraised easily.

    1. you’re right that it’s likely to be mostly the value of the metal, vs. the design. Replacements might be a good source of what the “market” price is per vintage piece, if they carry the pattern.

    2. Are you looking to buy or sell? If to buy, there is a lot of info out there on antique dealer sites, and this is actually a great use of chat GPT. If you’re eyeing something specific, see if you can get the makers mark and ask about that specifically. I buy a lot of silverware at antique shops and always check it out this way. Some is nice, some is just plated, but I love all of it.

    3. I’ve been looking for my silver on Ebay and similar sites, and the prices are similar everywhere. Just look at closed transactions on ebay, rather than the active listings. My silver is almost 30 years old, but the prices I am seeing for a complete set are comparable to what my dad paid for it as a very generous wedding gift way back then.

    4. Check a nicer jeweler – they may deal in antique flatware. I was stunned the last time I bought a couple pieces to complement my mom’s pattern that he actually put them on the scale to weigh the silver and sold them to me for the day’s silver price per ounce.

  11. Help me out here. I have kids younger than people at work’s kids. They are talking about paying for gap year programs. I had thought that gap years were for “workish” things, like backpacking in Asia while teaching English here and there along the way. Not really a paying FT job, but a fund adventure that you funded as you went along. [I think that other people take a year off to work FT and save $ for college or have kids on the spectrum who are bright enough to go to college but need to mature socially and this is like a life-skills class that parents pay for; these people and their kids aren’t in this bucket.] Is this something to think of in the future (or it not really done here and is still more of a thing in Europe)?

    1. What? If they all jumped off a cliff would you? No the vast majority of American kids don’t do a gap year and if yours want to you can tell them they have to pay for it

      1. If the vast majority of American kids jumped off a cliff, I wouldn’t do that either.

        I think OP is referring to the “Grand Tour” which is totally a thing.

        1. I thought the modern equivalent of Grand Tour was a little extra time after study abroad, or maybe right after graduating. But the longest I’ve heard of is like 6 weeks

    2. I’d ask them? In my circles, it’s pretty common for parents to supplement their recent college grads incomes these days, but that sounds different.

    3. I think there are things that are like “summer camp” for gap year – like if a kid wanted to do something like semester at sea, or outward bound or something? But I grew up solidly upper middle class, and did not know anyone, anyone *at all* that did that kind of thing. Or maybe they just mean they’re going to fund the year of travel in Asia. But either way, I don’t think this is normal. Or helpful to kids.

      1. I only know one person whose kid did this. They flailed in college and flailed after graduating. It taught them that their parents will bankroll their latest whim and they don’t need to take school or work seriously.

        The wealthy families I know with successful adult children made it clear they won’t subsidize the kid’s lifestyle after college. During high school they have their kid weigh the cost of tuition vs the expected salary for their major. As adults they treat their kids to family vacations, maybe they unexpectedly contribute money to a downpayment, but they don’t provide any ongoing support.

        1. Eh, with exactly one kid to go by as a case study, I think you probably don’t know this experience taught them that their parents will bankroll their latest whim and they don’t need to take things seriously, or if there was something wrong with this kid to begin with that motivated the parents to try this in the first place (perhaps hoping that they’d mature a little just from being older, but it didn’t work). Were they really not already flailing beforehand?

        2. Eh my parents are very wealthy and they cut me off at 17, I’m a very successful adult but we have basically no relationship because there was a lot of poverty and trauma involved in getting on my feet while living alone at 17. In fact I just ignored a call from my mom this morning.

          1. I’m really sorry that happened to you.

            I think it’s important to note that there is a MASSIVE gap between “paid for a fun gap year as a matter of course” and “totally cut you off at 17”.

            To give some examples of what that healthier middle ground might look like (for a family with resources – this is just some of the stuff I am very grateful my parents were able to do for me, that was genuinely helpful – you’re not a bad parent if you can’t do this )
            – I worked very hard in high school, got a full merit scholarship for college (and chose to take the school that gave me the best financial offer, not prioritize “fun” activities; although it was also an excellent fit for me – it wasn’t a choice between $ and a miserable college experience). My parents had planned to cover undergrad; since I didn’t need it, they covered dorm+books+meal plan type basic expenses with the money they had saved; letting me graduate with no debt, which massively expanded my future opportunities.
            – I studied abroad in a country with a much lower cost of living than the US – it was a great adventure, gave me a ton of confidence, shaped my future career, and was less expensive than living costs of a normal semester. Europe’s not the only place outside of the US!
            – Immediately after graduation, I worked “high adventure, high risk, low pay” non profit jobs (outside of the US). I was living very, very frugally, and my parents didn’t “subsidize my income” (and I absolutely wouldn’t have wanted them to); but they also made it clear that there was an emergency plane ticket home available if I ever needed it. Having that safety net gave me the space to take greater risks than I could have if I was truly alone/from a less stable family, and I’m deeply grateful for it.

        3. I think it’s chicken and egg. I am from a background that includes trailers but used to work in estate planning, so I’ve seen it all. I guess you could spoil a kid who would otherwise have launched well if coming from middle-class suburbia to the point where it’s just all hookers and coke (or wine-o’clock and shopping), but I’ve never actually seen it. The grifting rich kids with Problems aren’t that different from what I see in a much poorer zip code. It’s like being an alcoholic. It’s just rough on the parents and they often are desperate to help reboot their troubled adult kid and often they will do anything to try to change it. Rehab, jail, joining the Navy, taking in the grandkids. The cost of this is nothing compared to multiple rounds of 90-day in-patient rehab and they get your password and drain your mutual funds but you won’t press charges.

    4. How much do you want to launch capable adults and how much do you want to helicopter / fund your kid’s every whim? Unless there’s a super compelling situation or opportunity, this sounds like another case of rich people paying for adult kids to have fun and avoid responsibility. It okay for kids to struggle and have to work for what they want – ideal, even!

    5. like many things, this can be both trendy in certain wealthy circles (expensive, optional, vaguely European, might make the kid more appealing to exclusive schools? sign them up!), and also completely abnormal for the other 99% of the US.

    6. It’s more common in Europe because university is structured differently – you start medical school or law school straight out of high school and go for 6-7 years so it’s more common to take a break after high school before first degree vs after first degree.

      1. This is wild to me — does med school include what is in the gen ed curriculum here (like the A&P classes and what is most of a Chemistry minor)? I think in the US, so many kids want to be a doctor and like science and then get to college where the hard science classes are IMO so much harder than history and just change paths. I feel like it’s a gift to be allowed to pivot like that. Is it a lot of crash landings over there with kids who are socked at the workloads vs high school or just realize with their first cadaver that it’s just not for them after all?

        1. In the UK, they focus on science earlier in their pre-college curriculum if that is the direction they are going. So most kids are filtered out at that level if they are not med school material. It is v. competitive to get into medical school. In medical school/college combo (which exists in the US too), there is no time “wasted” on non-relevant classwork.

        2. Yes, it does include all the hard science classes. For example, in med school in Germany, you have two years covering all the basics, cumulating in a big exam that you need to pass to move into the clinical subjects:
          Physics, chemistry, biology, anatomy, physiology. All those classes have practical lab requirements, too, so you’ll be doing chem or biology lab during one semester, and several semesters of anatomy dissection classes 1-2 times a week for a few hours. As you move on, you need to do internships in the summer as part of your grade requirements.

          It is also competitive to get into med school, and you need a very good high school GPA unless you want to be waitlisted or only join med school after gaining relevant professional experience like nursing, EMT etc.
          It is also notable that German high school curriculum especially in AP classes for math/chem/bio can be more advanced compared to the US. At least from what I can see as a spouse of a science professor at a Tier 1 university in the US, my German AP classes in chem, bio and math covered most of the 1st and sometimes 2nd year content here in the US.

          And yes, a percentage of people will fail in the first two years and not move on to more clinical subjects.

    7. Some college are experimenting with preserving tuition-paying students by teeing up kids to enter spring semester of their freshman year (vs transferring as sophomores) because some kids will drop out as first semester freshman or otherwise not return. I think it’s a hard choice to have, but if it gets you into your dream school, why not? I think those kids have to do something like Semester at Sea or some study-abroad thing for the fall semester to not fall behind, so maybe that is what the parents are paying for? I think kids could also work and don’t have to do this, but IDK any great job that would take a kid who plans to leave in January and not stay on as a FT worker. I don’t know if this is a recent thing, but I know two families who went this route with their kids.

    8. I am constantly reminded of the first episode of Girls, where Hannah (20-ish?) asks her middle-class parents if they can just fund her living in NYC to work on her memoir. I get wanting to live like I am funded. But no one in my family has that kind of $ and it would have been delulu to have even asked.

    9. Is this before or after college? In either case, no way. My parents did pay for a little bit of travel – like a less than 2 week trip as a college graduation present. But not a whole year. I’m laughing at the idea of trying to convince my immigrant dad that that would be a good idea.

    10. It’s definitely a niche thing for wealthy people but isn’t new. I knew Americans who did gap years in the 90s funded by their parents.

  12. I need to replace all my bathroom towels. Anyone get any recently that absorb well?

    1. we just got some from the company store in a fun stripe, but we like the ones we’ve gotten from llbean and lands end. for my money i would avoid costco but that’s me.

  13. Thoughts on Miraval Arizona for a 3-4 day solo vacation in October? Spouse is tied up with trial prep, and I’ve already requested the time off work – use it or lose it. I like nature, would like some structure and would love something that is low-lift on the planning. I also have a ton of Delta miles and open to other suggestions that are restorative and sub $1K/night all in.

    2. I’ve done Miraval in Austin and highly recommend. My main advice is that you need to be proactive with signing up for stuff when they send you the reminder emails, which is I assume the same for Tucson. You will still be able to make changes when you get there, but if you want to, for example, do aerial yoga that will fill up.

    3. Sheer perfection. I went with a girlfriend but there were many solo women there (almost no men either). It’s restorative, there’s activities you can opt in or out of, fantastic food, dreamy beds (I bought their set up after). It might be more than 1k a night but if you can swing it cannot recommend it enough.

  14. Hello, hive. I am currently a compliance attorney who will soon be transitioning into an in-house counsel role. While I’ve been in a law-adjacent but not strictly “legal” position, this will be my first official role as corporate counsel.

    For those of you who’ve made a similar move (from compliance to legal), any tips or advice?
    TIA!

    1. If your company will pay for you to go to the ACC conference in Philly next month, I would highly recommend it. I also recommend you join ACC and sign up for the various newsletters in your relevant areas, particularly “new to in-house“.

    2. is this a lateral move in your current company, are you currently in-house compliance and changing companies, or are you an external advisor today and new to in-house altogether?

  16. I was using a curl cream for my wavy hair from Prose and it was going well. Unfortunately I have run out and am about to leave for a long business trip. Any suggestions for curl cream for fine, wavy hair? Ideally one that comes in a travel size version

    1. Pantene Flexible Waves and Curls gel. Dime sized dollop, worked through wet hair, air dry. Available at most drugstores. I actually found it because I forgot hair product on vacation.

    2. I also have fine hair and I like Curlsmith. I have used the leave-in and the strong hold gel, but they have a quiz you can do to figure out the best products. I bought travel size to try them out so I know they have smaller sizes.

    3. Cantu and Not Your Mothers are both kind to my fine, wavy hair, but they behave differently. Cantu’s I only use a pea-sized amount or it is too much, but I really like the results in winter to tame the static without turning greasy. Not Your Mothers is lighter but not so strong against frizz so I prefer it in summer.

  17. I want to plan a girls’ trip for a long weekend in November. Friends coming from Chicago and DC. We’d like a spa, good food, and maybe a nice afternoon outside outing (could be a hike, a winery, museum with a sculpture garden, etc). Where should we go? Any good hotel recommendations?

    1. I am pretty sure you can get direct flights from DC and Chicago to New Orleans and it would be a great time to visit! Lots of hotel options – if you have the money, the Windsor Court, Ritz Carlton and Roosevelt are all so nice. There are lots of fun hotel bars downtown like the Carousel bar that are within walking distance to great restaurants. During the day, you could uber to City Park and walk through the sculpture gardens, stop at the art museum there and have a quick lunch at the cafe or at Ralph’s in the Park which is a quick Uber ride from there, then spa services at the hotel (all of the hotels that I mentioned have spas and the first two also do teas). Depending on when you come, there might be a show or ballet at the Orpheum Theater or you could do a cooking class downtown. So many fun ideas for a girls trip!

    2. nice time of year for the southeast – Charleston and Savannah are both girl-trip-friendly, Palm Beach (rent bikes and pedal around the island), Naples (skews older but if you just want to relax, who cares), or alternatively go all in on fall and somewhere like the Omni Mount Washington although foliage will likely be past peak by then?

    3. I don’t have any specific suggestions, but if you are going early in November, you may still be able to get some Fall foliage in the southern end/lower elevations of the Blue Ridge mountains (like North Georgia/southern NC area). Something like the Old Edwards Inn in Highlands, maybe? (never stayed, have heard good things, going to be expensive though)

  18. My niece is at the University of Arkansas. I’d love to plan a trip to see her and will avoid weekends of home football games. Any advice for flying in, where to stay, and if it’s feasible to also visit Crystal Bridges? She is not local to the area and her family is a hot mess (lots of divorces and recouplings and a bunch of new half-sibs in diapers), so no one else will likely ever come visit her.

    1. I am from AR – honestly a home football game would be really fun. The tailgates in Fayetteville are great. When you visit, fly into XNA. I would stay in Fayetteville proper but Bentonville is also nice these days. You can definitely go to Crystal Bridges, you just need to rent a car. It’s a great museum and worth the visit! Beyond the museum itself there’s lots of trails on the grounds and it’s a nice place to spend the day. If you want to get out of town with her for a day you should go to Eureka Springs for a day trip.

    2. Crystal Bridges is amazing. Check the events calendar for The Momentary; they host some really great acts. There are also a ton of mountain biking and hiking trails in the area if you enjoy outdoorsy stuff. Rent a car if your niece doesn’t have one; NWA is very car-centric.

    4. I had an extended work trip last Fall in Bentonville and was blown away by Crystal Bridges. I would highly recommend. It might not hurt to ask your niece if there is anywhere she’d like to go and form some plans around that. There are some other art museums, galleries, and fun coffeeshops in Bentonville. And if she’s at college without a car 30 minutes away, spending a day with an aunt checking out stuff on her to-visit list might be a real treat.

  19. We’re in the very beginning stages of planning a trip to Japan for a year or two away — any favorite books or resources we should check out? Lol anything we should be booking now? (Or I guess any festivals or seasons we should be thinking about aligning the trip with?)

    2. Never the most trendy or instagrammy but the Lonely Planet or Fodors printed travel guides are perfect for the initial lay of the land, with what happens in each season.

      1. Agree. I have an old Lonely Planet from 2010/11, and the general lay of the land is still true. Check restaurant or hotel recommendations on Google, obviously.

        For hotels, the basic 2-3 star business hotels are totally fine and often surprisingly good, with decent breakfast, many have some sort of spa etc.
        Splurge on 1-2 nights at a ryokan (with meals, if you can), but for basic road/train-tripping in Japan, the business hotels are fine and conveniently located near train stations.

    3. Summer is insanely hot and humid. If you can go in the spring for cherry blossoms or fall for leaves, do that. Try to plan to do your trip either south to north or north to south so you maximize your chance of hitting the blossoms/leaves in each location. I went in 2012 and it was amazing — I understand it’s gotten much more crowded since then.

      I highly recommend learning a tiny bit of Japanese to help yourself out. You don’t needs more than a few phrases but it really helps and people there seem to appreciate it.

      1. With one to two years, you can easily learn the basics with Duolingo. It is super helpful to know the words for transportation, numbers, food and basic polite phrases. And learning the different letters! I visited Japan last year in early May and it was wonderful. The south was hotter and more humid by the second half of the month.

        Here was my itinerary for 13 days. It was the first Japan trip with our 10 yr old (3rd trip for me), and the itinerary was bookended by two work conferences in Tokyo and Kumamoto:
        – Tokyo 3 nights
        – local train to Kamakura area, stay 2 days, visit temples.
        – train to Hakone area in the afternoon
        – Hakone: 2 nights at a ryokan with hot springs, Hakone Open Air Museum, cable car up the volcano with Mt. Fuji views (if lucky), down the other side and boat ride across Lake Ashi
        – Shinkansen to Himeiji in the morning/no later than noon, stay 1 night, visit Himeiji samurai castle and garden in the morning
        – Shinkansen to Hiroshima, stay 2 nights
        – Hiroshima: visit Dome on arrival day, take a day trip to Miyajima island next day (deer, steep mountain hike)
        – Shinkansen to Kumamoto on the south island Kyushu (conference there)
        – Kumamoto 4 nights, visited Kumamoto castle, various parks and temples, modern art museums.

        Kumamoto felt very much local and relaxed after the busy train hopping – kiddo and I hung out in the hotel spa, went to the planetarium etc. The south island has many more sights like volcanos etc., but they were somewhat remote and we couldn’t get there easily. Due to the time constraints, we skipped Kyoto and Osaka/Nagoya, since we had been there before and the work obligations didn’t allow it, but if you’ve never been, I would spent at least 3 days in Kyoto.

        1. Izu peninsula is also nice with interesting geological features along the volcanic cost. We stayed there a few years ago in Hanafubuki ryokan, and it is still one of my favorite memories, even if pricey.
          But that was before the Yen tanked, so now Japan is generally much more affordable.

  20. It might be a bit late in the day to post this, but next month I will be a bridesmaid and I need “warm gold” shoes that will be comfortable from a 1:30 pm ceremony through as much as possible of the afternoon and evening events. I have size 11 feet, and have had good luck with brands like Clarks and Aerosoles, but metallic gold shoes don’t seem to be in style this year. Does anyone have any suggestions for comfy gold dress shoes? I’m open to anything from sandals to flats to a heel of a couple inches, but I’m 5’9″ and already taller than the other bridesmaids so lower is better. Thanks for any suggestions!

    3. Would ballet flats be festive enough? Cole Haan has size 11 gold Georgie ballet flats and Graclyn Mary Jane ballet flats. Both on sale at CH website. (I do find CH runs a bit small, personally.)

  21. what actresses do you think are “aging well” in a natural sort of way? saw martha stewart on tv this morning at the dentist and man she looks good but clearly has had a face lift and other stuff. i was thinking about it because robert redford actually looked old in some of the photos they had of him recently, and i can’t think of many actresses who are allowed to look old.

    1. To me, “aging well” doesn’t apply to anyone – famous or mere mortal – once you’re 80. Eighty is a great equalizer and everyone at that age is elderly. Martha and RR are both over 80.

      “Aging well” is more of a 50s/60s thing to me that implies more about taking care of yourself than going under the knife. Julianne Moore, at 64, is someone I’d describe as aging well.

    3. Jamie Lee Curtis, Jodie Foster, Olivia Colman, and Andie MacDowell are attractive women who don’t look unnaturally taut. But the majority of actresses get work done. The smart ones try to look 5-10 years younger instead of 20 years younger

    6. I assume all of them are getting work done, obviously some more than others. I really don’t look to celebrities for this kind of thing.

    7. Kate Winslet.
      Also, Jamie Lee Curtis looks old (and pretty rough) on The Bear and it adds so much to her character! Seems like a courageous choice in our current culture.

    8. Can we put non-actresses in?

      On different sides of the political aisle, I think that Elizabeth Warren and Melania Trump are both aging really well.

    10. I like Emma Thompson- I think she looks better now than she did in her 30s and she has a DGAF air about her that I aspire to. She’s not super glamorous or anything- just looks like life is going great.

    11. We saw the new Downton Abbey movie this weekend — Elizabeth McGovern seems not to have done any work on her face (to my untrained eye), but she is still gorgeous.

      Robert Redford will always be handsome to me, but photos of him from the last ~20 years do remind me to put on sunscreen.

    12. How on earth are Paulina Poriskova and Elizabeth Hurley 60 years old and have better bodies than my 48 year-old body with all of its squishy bits and stretch marks?!? Seriously, how is this possible?

      I would love to have their bodies, or Cindy Crawford’s, or Brooke Shield’s, or Salma Hayek’s. All look amazing.

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