Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Scoop-Neck Vest
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m seeing a lot of cute vests out and about these days, and while I’m still not 100% confident that I know how to style them, I really like the look.
I really like the buttons on this scoop-neck number from Gemma + Jane, and I think I would wear this with a pair of black wide-leg trousers for the office. But if I worked at a place where bare arms didn't fly, I think I’d probably have to skip it altogether. (Folks, if you have better ideas, please let me know!)
The vest is $26.97 at Nordstrom Rack and comes in sizes S-XL.
Sales of note for 8/12/25:
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your full price purchase, and $99 dresses and jackets — extra 60% off sale also
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles with code
- Dermstore – Anniversary sale, up to 25% off everything
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off all sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles & up to 60% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything and extra 60% off clearance
- Mejuri – Up to 25% off everything
- M.M.LaFleur – New August drop, and up to 70% off sale – try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Neiman Marcus – Last call designer sale! Spend $200, get a $50 gift card (up to $2000+ spend with $500 gift card)
- Nordstrom – 9,800+ new women's markdowns
- Rothy's – Ooh: limited edition T-strap flats / Mary Janes
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – Semi-annual red door sale! 50% off all markdowns + extra 20% off already marked-down items
How far back do you go when answering questions during an interview? 2 years ago? 5 years ago? 2 jobs ago?
Most recently or most relevant example but no issue if it was a prior job. I do a lot of interviews and it’s pretty common that somebody has a really good example of ‘tell us about a time when x’ or cites a time from grad school/college even though they’re 10 years out.
I can only think of a handful of times that I judged somebody for it being ‘too long ago’ and it was a total softball question (like ‘tell us about a time you had to solve a problem that required you to work with multiple stakeholders’) or similar and they gave us a bizarre example that didn’t fit from 20 years ago and a retail job, then couldn’t think of any other time they had solved a problem.
Going back very far might be an issue if it’s long enough ago that the technical standards have changed a lot, or maybe if you keep going back very far for every question making me wonder why you aren’t talking about your recent jobs.
I had a really high profile, high stress job about 5 years ago that had a lot of great situations for “tell us about” questions. It’s also something that people have heard of so its very relatable. For interviews right after I gave a lot of answers from then but now I would probs tone it down a bit.
I always go back about 5 years but that’s because I’m in gov and things like writing regulations take a long time and certain activities only happen in certain steps of the process. For more routine jobs examples should be more recent.
As the person hiring, I find it very odd and potentially disqualifying if someone isn’t referencing their most recent job for pretty much every answer. Only exception would be if they pivoted to a new career and were trying to go back to an old one.
As the person hiring – it’s more about the mix of questions and answers. If all your answers are from 2+ years ago, I’m wondering what you’ve done more recently and why you haven’t progressed. If you have a mix of stories across the past several years that’s fine, especially if your 1 or 2 examples from longer ago are for things that a really impressive/high profile, or from things that speak to your development (eg “tell me about a time you failed” or “tell me about feedback you’ve gotten”).
What if the person is leaving their current job because it isn’t allowing them to do the things they are best at, though? I would have a hard time coming up with strong examples for most of the standard interview questions from my current job because I’m underutilized. The whole reason I would be interviewing for jobs would be to get back to working at my true skill level, but you aren’t allowed to say that in an interview.
I’ve been a devoted JCrew shopper for decades but this year their clothes have been so lacking I’ve been forced to branch out. I’ve tried Alex Mill and Ann Mashburn for casual, The Fold and Boss for dresses, and Theory, me + em, and Veronica Beard for daily workwear. Is there anything I’m missing? I keep seeing ads for Argent and I’m wondering if that’s a good place for more formal business attire. I am so over ruffled crop tops and giant gold buttons all over everything. I tend to like plain, classic fits in basic and fun colors or stripes (i.e., old J.Crew), and I’m willing to spend a bit more for quality.
Not what you asked, but I have changed the unending J.Crew gold buttons on jackets, dresses and tops and ended up with exactly the look I wanted.
I have also, but I am getting tired of having to do that and my tailor charges an obscene amount for it!
Right? What is with all the cheap-looking gold buttons??
I’d add Sezanne and MM LaFleur to your list. Boden is very piece dependent but there are some real workhorses there. Talbots for select basics in neutral colors.
Same. Those are all the brands I wear but also, JCrew not in the summer is still pretty good. I have a couple of casual suits from there I love.
I will check out Sezane. I have not had good luck with MM. I think it’s because I don’t love the stretchy fabrics they use.
I also hate the stretchy fabrics but recently found a dress from them that is in something totally different– the Maaza Dress in Origami Tech or something like that.
Chiming in to say I’m loving sezane for lined wool pants and merino sweaters. It really reminds me of old school j.crew. The fabric content will vary by the color and pattern though, so you’ll have to double check if that’s a priority.
How does Sezanne sizing run? Lined wool pants are so hard to find.
Funny thing, I like Boden for work pants, but only in winter. In the summer, I’ll get a casual dress from them, and maybe a simple top, but overall, I find it all too whimsical and twee for my taste. They really are a different store in different seasons!
I’d add in Hobbs and LK Bennet (some twee things, but plenty of good basics and shoes). Definitely Talbots for bog standard black/grey suiting, and I’d think about Ann Taylor especially if you can go in person. It’s still a bit of a hunt but their quality in the last year or so is markedly better.
Any reason you’re not looking at Brooks Brothers? I try to wait for sales but their quality is still very high.
Thanks! Is Hobbs still horrible at logistics? I ordered from them a couple of years ago and the return took a month.
Bloomingdale’s carries a lot of Hobbs pieces, which makes life a lot easier.
+1 – I only shop at Hobbs through Bloomingdales or when I’m in London otherwise their logistics are a total nightmare.
Sounds like you are headed in a preppy direction, so I would also check J. McLaughlin and Sail to Sable.
Were you doing shoes from J Crew? If so, Bass, Cole Haan and Jack Rogers are good alternatives. Ann Taylor and Brooks Brothers also have surprisingly good shoes
Lots of good suggestions. I’d add in Frank + Eileen for basics. They’ve been my favorite casual dress shirts lately.
Oh good reminder. I used to get a lot of ads for them. Is it good quality for the high price?
This is not responsive, but I spent a lot of time yesterday on Theory’s website, for the first time ever, and their models creeped me out. They looked so, I don’t know, unlike real people? Are they not real people? I don’t mean they were too thin (of course they’re thin); that doesn’t bother me. But there was nothing in their eyes. I had to shut it down and find a brand whose models’ expressions varied.
I agree! I don’t know what vibe they are going for but it’s strange. It does not make the clothes look flattering.
AI modeling is here, though I have no idea if Theory is relying on it.
I have a bunion forming by my pinky toe. I know I can’t reverse this, but recommendations on what to do to slow its progression? I’m only 31, so I want to mitigate surgery or major implications for as long as possible.
I already wear pretty comfy shoes (Birkenstocks, sneaks, blundstones, Clark’s), but will be more judicious going forward. I see Clark’s has a sale so I might treat myself to a new pair or two.
Any recommendations on how to slow its progression and/or comfy, bunion friendly but stylish shoes?
My mom has some gnarly ones (and my grandma did too), so I suppose it was bund to happen. I also have pretty flat feet. I’m very active, working out or playing sports 6x a week so hoping Theres no long-term impact on that.
Consider a visit to a podiatrist for this, esp. because its a familial trait.
Hammer toes run in my family and knowing the trajectory prompted my visit. Doc was
great and gave me actionable tips. Its 4 years later and it has not progressed.
This. There are a lot of things you can do to strengthen your feet and change the alignment of your feet that will prevent the bunion from worsening.
Get custom orthotics made- one pair for sneakers and one pair for normal shoes. A little heel is better for your feet than a completely flat shoe. Never go barefoot- buy a pair of supportive shoes and use them as slippers at home. This won’t change the progression but Yoga Toes feel great when your feet are sore (I have the “gems”)
It’s not the end of the world if you need surgery though. The internet is full of horror stories but I found the recovery pretty easy. If you’re serious about elevation and ice and take your meds on time it makes a big difference. Prior to my bunionectomy I was in pain all day every day. The surgery made it vanish instantly.
Surgery was the best thing for me. Definitely was glad I had it when I was younger (was a little younger than you and I’m 51 now). Your body heals better then, and it saves you from so much pain. And if you can’t walk for long periods to your full ability, you risk weight gain that exacerbates the condition.
After my bunion surgery, I finally realized how much foot pain I had just accepted as part of my life. Healing took a little while of course, but within a month, I was so pain-free, I felt amazing. I was in my 20s.
Can you describe a bit more about your surgery?
I have a horrible bunion that was caused by trauma to the foot, and the pain is endless. My PT recommends against surgery, fearing that it will be almost endless revision surgeries.
Is it a bunion or maybe just a callus?
Anything I should look out for or beware of when booking travel through my credit card versus directly with the airline? There’s currently an offer on my Chase card to book through Chase travel and I do have a flight I need to book for work, so figured why not. (Feels like a silly thing to ask, but I’ve always just booked directly with their airlines, so just want to be aware of what to look out for).
Check the cancellation policy and whether you would do so through Chase or the website directly.
I’ve started booking with Chase a lot recently and haven’t had any issues. I even book my business travel through Chase (and then get reimbursed quickly on my personal card) so its extra points for me.
One benefit to booking through Chase is you can always cancel within 24 hours, regardless of the airline’s or hotel’s cancellation policy.
The main concern is that you are introducing an additional variable on the process because you’re using an intermediary instead of booking directly. This may provide a financial or other benefit, but it also means the risks of a problem or the hassles of fixing a problem are higher. Not saying don’t do it — just that you’re increasing risk.
I book personal travel through Chase all the time and it’s great. You do have to call them to cancel a flight and get your points back. I would make sure your company can reimburse you for using points though – I always keep those for myself.
since you mention a work trip – if applicable, does your company allow you to book on your own and get reimbursed? Many require you to go through their travel system – you still get the miles that you earn from being butt-in-seat but it’s charged to the corporate account.
+1
I workout a lot and I’m having a weird issue: my lower body stays sore or tired for days. I don’t have this issue with my upper body (I can lift upper body back to back days).
I’ve dropped the weight I lift and am only doing body weight strength for the lower body now. But, of course, cardio is lower body intensive. I usually trail run, hike, or road bike 1-2x a week, row 1x a week, and play soccer 1x a week, paddle board or play tennis when I can (less than weekly) and then lift upper body 2-3x a week and lower body 1x a week and work in core. Yes I work out a lot – but all of the cardio I do is a hobby of mine not something I’m doing as a workout.
I’m very active but I’m not an incredible athlete so my runs are only 2-3 slow miles, my lifts are ~ 20 mins (usually 3-4 sets of 3-4 exercises of 5-10 reps. I’m following the Darebee PPL program).
I eat well and enough (I don’t track, but I’m never hungry). I have a few whole milk lattes, FF Greek or Icelandic yogurt, lots of fruits and vegetables, poultry or fish (and occasionally red meat) for lunch and dinner, several servings of whole grains a day), and a protein shake after working out. I drink socially, but I don’t think enough to do noticeably hamper recovery.
I drink probably 80+ oz of water a day. I am always “in bed” 8-9 hours a night (do my best to sleep 8 hours, but sometimes I wake up too early).
I warm up before I work out, I cook down after, and I stretch. I roll out. I get massages.
I’ve tried adding in more rest days.
By virtue of living in the city, I usually get 12-15k steps a day. I have a sit/stand desk and usually stand 2-3x a day for 20-30 mins.
Any ideas on what’s causing this or how to fix it?
Have you tried working out with a personal trainer for the lifting? I had the same issue, and I found a great trainer. I was very clear with him that I was tired of being sore, so he put me on a regime that built strength but didn’t leave me sore all the time. I still get sore after a tougher workout but it’s nothing like before.
You can take creatine to help with recovery time.
All of the cardio is a workout. Sounds like you’re never giving your legs a day off. So yeah. They’ll stay sore longer
Yeah, I know it’s all working my lower body. I double up a few days a week, so my legs do get several days off a week.
Monday is my full rest day, Tuesday is usually upper body/core, Wednesday is lower body in the AM + rowing in the PM (just some easy steady state on the water, no pieces), Thursday is upper body in AM and sometimes a trail run or hike in the PM, Friday is upper body or a second rest day, Saturday is usually a trail run, hike, or bike sometimes with upper body or core (but if I paddle board or kayak or tennis it’s on Saturday in place of a lift/cardio), then Sunday is soccer (my most strenuous workout which is why Monday is off).
So, 3-4 off days for the lower body each week (M, T, F, and sometimes Th or Sa), 1-2 of which are fully rest days.
Wednesday rowing, Thursday cardio, and Sunday soccer are locked into those days and can’t be changed.
You didn’t add in the “12-15k steps every day.”
Unfortunately I can’t avoid the steps! ~6k of which are my walk to work. Then add in running an errand or grabbing a coffee or meeting up with a friend or anything and I hit 12k easily – I don’t aim for 12-15k steps a day!
It still means you’re never resting tho.
Thats a pretty normal amount of steps, and it would be hard for many, many people to avoid getting that many steps most days.
What is she supposed to do, never leave her couch several days a week?
When I was in that situation, I biked my commute and errands, which helped a lot.
So that is a lot! General tired/legs feel heavy sounds to me like your body is just doing all the repairs, as opposed the kind of lactic-acid sore that more intentional cool down/stretching/rolling out can help with
Some options in no particular order:
1. cut down the amount of exercise a lot for a week and see if the tired goes away. Then ramp back up *slowly* (<10% per week).
2. Add "rest weeks" into your monthly/bi-monthly schedule and see if that has an effect (don't know how this plays with weight lifting but it's important for running – you can't just continually train for the next race, even if your training plan is sensibly ramped)
3. Small snack immediately after each workout
4. If your legs feeling tired is mostly during the workouts, is it possible your approaching the length where your trail runs/long runs/etc need a mid-run carb snack?
5. Work with a personal trainer or coach for a few sessions; get a running gait analysis – sometimes there's some particular little muscle weakness or form issue that is making your big muscles overwork to try to compensate
What sort of sore? Muscle sore or joint sore? Just one muscle group or the whole shebang?
I ask because, like, a “sore calf” could be plantar fasciitis, not DOMS. Lots of possibilities like that, but more details will help.
Not really sore, but my legs feel heavy / take several days to feel recovered.
It sounds like you’re working your legs every day, hobby or not. That may not be serving you as well as a rest day would.
My legs get 3-4 days off a week, 1-2 of which are rest days for the full body.
Of course, I’m still walking on my rest days but thats hard to avoid in the city – I walk to work, to the grocery store, to the train, etc.
No they don’t. You can’t just say “oh walking 6 miles is a rest day for me” and make that be true.
Yes, and I will reiterate that means you’re never really getting a rest day.
How many steps do you take on a rest day? How do you manage to go to work, clean your house, or go grocery shopping on less than 10-15k steps a day?
Thats not a workout and she’s not not getting a break as a result. Thats just daily life.
It’d be like telling the mother of an infant that carrying her baby is a workout and she needs to stop. It’s just what has to be done…
Saying it’s “not a rest day” isn’t a moral judgment or anything! If you’re working out a lot, and constantly tired, “are you getting rest days” is the most natural thing to ask. Like, if a new mom is exhausted and carrying around her newborn all day every day, it might be “what has to be done” (although, if you are that mom, text me and I am coming over for gently-rocking-duty while you rest), but it’s insane to imply the necessity changes the impact on her body!
But anyway, if you want to experiment and see if changing your walking mileage on rest days makes a difference, what if you tried biking to work/grocery store/etc for a couple weeks?
Yeah, this is coming off a bit humblebraggy. “I work out a ton and make sure to take my rest days with over 12k steps too, what’s the issue?”
I live in the suburbs. If I clean my house and go grocery shopping it’s maybe 5-6K steps. To get more than that I have to work out.
You might consider adding in a soak in epsom salts to help with muscle recovery. I like the scented Dr. Teals – they are very relaxing!
Oh great idea. I don’t have a tub now, but my next apartment has one (I move 10/1)!
Would it make sense to track diet just for a few days to a week in a tool like cronometer or fitbit to check intakes? You are probably right that you are getting enough protein, but you may find that you’re not getting enough of something else like a mineral.
Thats a good point! I was thinking my macros are probably fine, but you’re right about the minerals. I’ve had low iron and a few vitamins in the past.
I do take a multi vitamin every day (which has helped with the vitamin deficiencies), but iron is definitely something for me to look at! I don’t each much red meat or spinach.
Magnesium is the one I’m always working on. One bonus is that some formulations are therapeutic for achey or tight muscles even if there’s not a deficiency (since excess is a muscle relaxant).
Oh yes, I worked with a nutritionist years ago when I had an unrelated medical issue and she encouraged magnesium for stress and sleep! I’ll work on adding that back in.
I have the same issue. I’ve been ramping up lifting over the last year and my legs leave me so sore. I also run or bike a few times a week but those don’t leave me nearly as sore as squats and deadlifts.
From a lot of Reddit rabbit holes and gym bro podcasts, I’ve concluded brutal leg DOMS is pretty normal and why a lot of folks like to complain about leg day. I also heard a trainer say it’s okay to do legs once a week because of the recovery time, but I don’t really see improvement when I do that and every session feels like torture.
In addition to protein and creatine, the other thing that helps is making sure I activate all leg muscles before starting. I tend to be quad dominant from running so I do circles with my legs, deep squat stretches, and sometimes clamshells before every workout. I heard recently that it can help to do hip thrusts or other glute work before squats and when I do that and really squeeze well, I don’t have the same hamstring soreness after.
How are your shoes? Heavy, dead legs are always a sign for me that my running shoes are breaking down, and whan I’m walking a lot in unsupportive shoes, that compounds the problem. Switching to cushioned but neutral shoes with Superfeet insoles really helps a lot.
Also magnesium and iron, as others suggest; the glycinate formulations are easy on the stomach.
Yes, good point.
Yep. I complained about this years ago and someone told me “STOP WALKING 6 MILES A DAY IN CONVERSE!” I tried it, and really haven’t had the heaviness in my legs since.
Omg I can’t imagine walking 6 miles a day in converse!
Ahahahaha I think I remember that.
Yeah, I would think hard about this, especially because you walk so much and stand at work. Make sure your walking and work shoes are new enough and supportive. And then if that still doesn’t work, I’d at least try backing off a bit on walking or some of the cardio for a few weeks, just to see if it helps.
Putting in my standard plug to check ferritin as well as iron levels.
I came here to suggest this. If you’re walking 5+ miles a day, it needs to be in good footwear.
You can help your sneakers to last longer by buying two pairs and alternating days.
For those saying I need to walk less on my rest days, any suggestions as to how?
I’m in the office 5x a week and pretty much have to walk there (taking public transit wouldn’t help much).
I find that just basic living (refilling my water or coffee when in the office, grabbing lunch, going to a meeting on another floor, doing laundry in the basement) gets me to 10k once I factor in walking to and from work.
If you could just cut it one day a week for a few weeks, you could see if it made a difference, not as a permanent thing. Not sure what would work best for you, but you could possibly bike, uber, or wfh if driving isn’t an option?
Omg people are literally just trying to help. Take a Sunday rest day, don’t do a million things, just chill. See if that helps. If it doesn’t, then that’s a good piece of info. Or pick a work day, don’t walk to work, and don’t stand throughout the day. Or just keep
Doing exactly what you are doing truly no one else cares but trying actual rest is a reasonable step
It’s literally impossible to not hit at least 10k steps a day if you live in the city. I don’t think she’s trying to be difficult, it just a fact of life
Yeah, but that means you might have to adjust your workouts to compensate for the fact that you aren’t resting. Also make sure you are wearing proper shoes for all that walking.
I honestly don’t think this is answer anyway. The minimum amount of steps just for general health maintenance is something like 7k. Our bodies aren’t designed to take or need rests from walking under normal circumstances, and steps usually help me when legs are sore (as someone who is perfectly capable of getting <2k steps on a day off, it doesn't actually help to do that).
I like the "better shoes" suggestion better. For me it's usually an issue of adequate arch support (and arch support is the first thing to fail for me on a previously comfortable shoe).
I wear Birkenstock Arizonas most of the time, rubber slides at home, and then activity appropriate footwear.
Shoes are supportive, relatively new but broken in, fit well
Arizonas are great, but I sure as heck wouldn’t walk 5 miles in them!
Swap out the Birkenstocks. Good arch support but that’s a heavy shoe with no flex. Fine for around the house or standing but not what you want for errand and city walks.
Sounds good – I’ll try communing in sneakers
How new is this routine, in particular the lifting? I ask because I got crazy sore when I started lifting legs earlier this year. I worked with a trainer who encouraged me to dial it back but keep going. It did stop after a few weeks. I won’t lie; it’s still my primary motivation to keep going. I don’t want to relive that.
I think massage and water and protein help but if you’ve never done, say, split squats before you are going to be really sore.
Ive been doing this off and on (mostly on) for years, but have been doing it for a few months by now.
Skipping over all the comments about you need more rest – if your body is adapted to this level of activity otherwise, it probably isn’t the issue. You are likely getting sore after leg day because you are only doing leg day once a week so it is more of a novel movement and your body hasn’t adapted to the movements. Think when you take a new work out class with different movements and its HURTS the next day. I’d also add that a body weight only leg day can make you just as sore (if not more) than a heavy lifting leg day because you will do more reps. If you aren’t already, I might consider working out with a trainer and also giving in to the urge to buy compression boots.
Thanks.
My calves and shins feel fine – it’s really just my quads feeling tired and heavy. An excuse for compression boots would be fun, but it’s not the right part of my leg.
I did think about splitting up my leg day (adding in one lower body exercise to my upper body lifts), maybe that would be better?
I’m not even going high rep when I’m going body weight! Think 3×10 body weight squats, lunges, etc.
Your glutes might be weak or not firing. Weak glutes overload the quads.
Sorry, I should have posted some suggestions to go with weak glutes:
Glute bridges – first with both legs, then single leg.
Frog pumps: https://www.shape.com/fitness/workouts/butt-workouts/frog-pump-exercise
Clamshells, first normally, then banded.
Hip thrusts.
Hip adduction and abduction weights, if you have those at the gym.
Awesome, thank you!
Me too! All my fave things are leg sports and I also walk 12-15k steps/day and workout like 5-6x/week. I have somewhat accepted sore legs. I am quad dominant so working on strengthening other leg muscles (esp GLUTES). Also second what others say about considering footwear, magnesium/iron, epsom baths. And maybe shortening the running mileage or pace or adding another rest day here and there.
Hm you make a great point about being quad dominant. That’s probably part of my problem! I try to make sure I’m working my posterior chain, but I’m still probably not doing it enough.
It’s really just my quads that feel heavy or tired?
Yeah, my PT told me to do some single leg glute activation stuff before my runs to help my brain remember to use my glutes more. It’s actually really fun to use glutes while running, you can get a longer stride and almost feel a “glide” in that moment when both feet are off the ground but takes mental energy for me because my habit is to just use quads always and forever.
Also, one more thing: My PT recommended the book “Roar” by Dr. Stacy Sims, a doctor who researches women athletes and hormone cycles. I haven’t read it yet but read some of her blog articles and apparently certain times of the month demand more rest than others, who knew?!
I’m not sure why people are harping on the number of steps! Thats barely more than the baseline.
Every single able bodied adult I know walks that much.
Yeah I think they are just wrong. Just walking is a rest day.
Right , to me saying walking is exercise is like saying eating is exercise! It’s just part of my day
Then again, I have an able bodied aunt who drives to the Wawa thats 2 blocks from her house… (and has done this since her 30s). She’s allergic to exercise
You must live in a walking city. To get that many steps I have to work out and take the dog for a long walk, which adds up to 2 hours minimum.
Do you not walk at all during your day?!
Where exactly are you going to walk if you have to drive everywhere, unless you make a specific effort to go for a walk?
A while back there was a convo on here about products to get stubborn pet hair off your clothes. I swear my cat’s fur should be studied by science for its super glue qualities…. regular lint rollers do not remove it. Someone mentioned a product you can buy to put in the washing machine with your laundry that is really good for removing fur. All i remember is that it was cube/rectangular shaped and you could re use it. so not a liquid. Does anyone know what that product is? Thanks!
I don’t remember what it’s called but I have one and it’s worse than the sticky tape rollers. Those do a much better job. The cube thing is worthless.
Not the product you are asking about, but wool dryer balls will remove a lot of the fur.
I remember vests from 1996, where I got mine because Jill Hennessey’s character wore one as a blouse on Law & Order OG. What I remember is that if you are short or have a short torso (guilty on both counts), they only work if you are very straight up and down (not guilty).
I feel like I badly screwed up an assignment this week from our exec director and am trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening again. To be fair, I don’t think I was set up for success by any stretch. All information was coming through to me through one person above me, who was getting it from an exec assistant, plus some brief email exchanges he had with the boss. I had very little context for what the exec director actually wanted (and what she wanted ended up changing mid-stream, when there was no time to pivot). I did the best I could with the parameters I had, but I was throwing it together on a tight timeline, in an area I don’t typically touch. The person above me ended up redoing, which was really embarrassing. It’s rare for me to miss the mark that much. I’m not a junior staffer!
I have a meeting with the exec director later today for something unrelated. Do I bring this up and apologize? I feel like I was getting information in a game of telephone and it was a predictable disaster (but also, I very much got the feeling that I shouldn’t bug her with questions).
I’m guessing that . . . you feel very embarrassed by all this. You may be feeling like you want to justify yourself because you really, really did try–even though you know that justifying yourself is not something you would actually do out loud to anyone at work. You’re not used to missing the mark, and it’s probably making you feel very bad that you did.
But objectively, is anyone else unhappy about it—or you—in an ongoing way? Or does everyone recognize this was merely a predictable disaster and everyone made the best they could of it and are moving on?
Yes, I am very embarrassed. To my knowledge, nobody is mad at me in an ongoing way, but I also know how judgmental the person above me is. I do think people will move on. The whole thing highlights, imo, a bigger issue in how I get information from our exec director. She is relatively new to the position and I think she’s trying to delegate and pass things along to other people, but it means that I’m left trying to interpret directions that are often unclear.
I would bring it up briefly but not dwell. Something like, ‘I also just wanted to apologize for the X assignment. I feel like I really missed the mark on that one and wanted to apologize.’
If they go into it, then you can expand but I would remember to talk about what you’ll do in the future rather than fixate on what was done wrong this time.
No, talk to the person who ended up redoing the presentation and figure out a fix with them going forward, chances are the director doesn’t even know but that person sure does. Somehow they got context you didn’t and you need to plug that hole.
Re the “do you bring it up with the exec director or not” question, does your manager generally have a good sense of politics, that you could ask them? Your “don’t bug them with questions” instinct is coming from somewhere and sometimes it really isn’t worth rehashing
Can you talk to your boss about improving that communication channel in the future, like having a kickoff meeting and a meeting after a specific milestone to check in. You don’t want to be put in this position again and the executive director may not have given it much thought but could be open to the idea.
I agree that would be ideal. Unfortunately, it was on an assignment that I received at 3:50 pm on Wednesday and was due mid-afternoon Thursday. The tight timeline didn’t help matters.
You say to the ED, “Let me know if you’re interested in having a debrief about how that project went. I don’t think it turned out the way any of us wanted to, and I’m sure we can find a better process to get us to the desired result.”
I want a black athletic dress with built in shorts for an upcoming trip. Looking at Halara, Lululemon, and Abercrombie. I’m 5’8 with a longer torso, generally a size 8 or 8 tall in stuff like this – can anyone speak to how the sizing runs? Looking for it to read more as ‘tennis dress’ than ‘super short black dress that she wore to the club in 2010’.
It’s navy but the Tory Sport golf dress with undershirts might work for you. I have a short torso and am short and the torso and overall length were about right for someone with your dimensions (and my 5-8 daughter). They sell undershirts separately. I also shop for her at ON, gap, and Athleta where they sell Talls.
Old Navy has great athletic dresses with built in shorts, and tall sizes are available if you need extra length.
Team long torso here. I would do the LLL tennis skirt with the matching top, over the tennis dresses. Better pocket and bathroom situation and, at least for me, I find them for flattering than the dresses.
Funny you say that because it’s my default uniform on vacation – LLL tennis skort with a matching top. It makes me feel and look pulled together enough while still being able to do all the things.
Was considering a dress with the same look just for variety.
I normally wear tall sizes but Lululemon works for me. I’d go with that brand over the others if you worry about length.
I’m 5’9” and have a tennis dress with shorts from Beyond Yoga that I love. I ordered my regular size, no issue with length.
The city chic dress looks so much more appropriate. Can you get that and some shorts?
Cross posting for more eyes
My daughter has friends from a few different groups and usually for her birthday she picks a group or two celebrate with. It’s fun, but can drag things out. This year she asked for a big party with everyone. This will be about 30 11-12 year olds in our backyard. I don’t think kids this age are good at socializing with kids they don’t know. What kinds of activities will keep everyone engaged? I was thinking of stations, like a craft area, a soccer or basketball area, maybe water balloons. Or would it be better to have one big activity to engage everyone at the same time?
Are they too old for a bounce house? At least in my area you can rent one for about $250.
A bounce house for 30 guests is probably not a great idea, as there’s usually a safety limit as to how many kids can be on it at the same time.
And you will definitely have to police it!
What about going somewhere like mini golf or roller skating (if that’s still around), an escape room or bowling? That’s stuff works well for people who don’t know each other well and can end up being around the same cost.
I would go this route. I think it’s going to be much harder than you imagine to occupy 30 11-year-olds for a few hours.
An activity like this runs about $30-50 per kid, for 30 kids? That’s way more than a backyard party.
OP, I have an 11 year old, and I wouldn’t worry about this. Make whatever sports equipment and games you have available (Twister, basketballs, cornhole, wiffle ball), and the kids will figure it out. Lots of food and drinks.
If you want to have a big group activity, a pinata is actually a surprisingly good one for this age group. Let everyone have only one try to start with, so hopefully everyone gets a turn before it bursts :)
Karaoke is another cute one. You can get microphones and bluetooth speakers on Amazon for about $30.
For 30 kids I’d just rent out the whole skating rink or movie theater. Where we live you can do either for about $300.
Ask her to figure it out. Srsly. She’s plenty old enough to have opinions on what would be fun for her friends to do.
It sounds like your daughter is turning 12? That’s old enough to have ideas for her own party. I would ask her what activities she is planning and then work with her if her concept is unrealistic.
Having moved from one state to another at age 12 to begin 7th grade, right after I started 6th grade at a new middle school in the old state… kids that age are totally ok making new friends. I remember my friend Leslie invited her neighbor friend Sarah to her birthday sleepover every year – Sarah went to private school, not our public school. We’d all heard about Sarah though and any friend of Leslie was a friend of ours. She fit right in. It’s not a destination bachelorette party, it’s a 11yearold birthday party.
One idea might be ice breakers or name tags if the girls really don’t know each other – “my name is Ava and my favorite Taylor Swift song is ____” but I bet they’ll figure it out.
I’m professionally bored. I don’t want to change careers. I am thinking about going back to school because I want to learn more about science and engineering topics. I am early 50s, I have audited classes at my local community college but my StateU has better class times. I don’t have any intent to change careers. StateU doesn’t allow auditing of most the science classes I want. I don’t need financial aid. I can’t get a human to call me back, and it seems like they don’t understand via email what I want. I know we have a lot of higher ed folks on this board, what terminology am I missing? I don’t care if I get a degree, but I’m open to that if that’s the only way to enroll. Am I tanking their numbers if I don’t graduate?
At least at my institution, you can take up to a certain number of credits as a grad student (maybe 12?) before you are forced to declare a field of study. Granted, I am in admissions or anything like that, but I’m not terribly surprised they don’t know what to do with your request. You still have to be enrolled as a student and go through the normal channels to register for classes.
*I am not in admissions. But yes, expect to have to enroll as a student, undergrad or grad, to take courses.
You want to be a nondegree student. The only problem you might have with this is that many universities are so underfunded and overenrolled in STEM fields that the intro science classes give priority to majors and even they can’t all get in, so nobody else will be able to. But at other schools this isn’t an issue, and most universities also offer nonmajors science classes that everyone can enroll in.
This. You may not be able to randomly choose which classes you want to take; generally, science classes are offered in a specific sequence. Or, you’ll need to target classes that are for non-majors.
I get that school is fun but how does this help your career? Why not focus on that since you’re like 30 and have another 30 to go?
… she’s in her 50s.
Women are allowed to do fun things because they’re fun, even if they don’t help their career.
I don’t understand your question: Is it that, for some reason, you aren’t able to submit an application to be a student at your State U?
My State U has what they call Extension classes. You can sign up for them without having been admitted.
I think this is just a gap that traditional institutions choose not to fill. Any time I have tried to take classes just for professional development, I have to go through the hassle and expense of sending transcripts and applying to the institution. Yes, some do have extension programs, but often those programs aren’t necessarily teaching the class I’m interested in.
I would suggest looking at a site like udemy or coursera that many companies use for additional training instead. They do have paid courses as well. I know there can be a bias toward brick and mortar institutions, but for even things like PMP training, the udemy courses are recommended over the expense of college tuition.
+1. Yeah, this is by design. They don’t want you in these classes with degree-seeking students. As a college student I have been in classes with these types of hobby students & they’re often not committed, complain about the intensity of the reading/assignments, come to class unprepared, take the class on irrelevant tangents with what they think are “interesting” questions—All with the arrogance that they’re knowledgeable & entitled to be there. These courses are designed to culminate in a degree and ultimately career, if you don’t care about this—you might not be in the right place.
professor here (but at a SLAC). Would you be open to a “lifelong learning” program? often these provide access to audit courses (ours is called “Osher,” which is available at many institutions). sometimes they also offer separate classes. Generally, auditing STEM classes may be trickier (because they are full with majors and premeds), but you might be able to get into non-major oriented gen eds (like “Physics for Presidents.”) If the channels you are using aren’t working, try reaching out to the or Dept Chair or the admin — they can at least direct you in the right way. Another option would be to attend lectures on campus (usually open to the public) rather than a full class.
Starting this off with the note that I will do more research and likely ask an immigration lawyer, as well. But since this is a knowledgeable and diverse board here goes:
My husband and I are green card holders from a Western European country, and need to renew our green cards (expiring in the 1st half of 2026) after 10 years. With all the developments around immigration in the US, we are considering citizenship as an alternative. We’ve been eligible for citizenship for a number of years, but hadn’t really seen an immediate necessity to pursue it, and even some disadvantages (for example, if we ever wanted to retire in our country of origin, as citizens we’d be paying taxes in the US forever). We are in good legal status and have stable employment. In case it matters, we are not in any form or shape feeling particularly patriotic towards our country of origin (whose citizenship we can keep) or the US, so the identity piece does not factor into it, at all.
Our 10-yr old child has dual citizenship, i.e. they already have a US passport.
If there are any immigration law experts on here or someone who went through the green card/citizenship process recently, what other aspects and questions would you consider, in addition to:
1. Can we apply for green card renewal and at the same time pursue a citizenship application? Or is it one or the other?
2. Any insights into current processing times for the two?
3. Are there any specific risks associated applying for one or the other under the current administration? I keep hearing horror stories of people being arrested by ICE at their visa/citizenship interviews. Also, if there were, for example, more limited contingents or stricter rules for green cards now, maybe citizenship would be the safer route.
Not directly answering your questions, but personally I believe that the pressure campaign that was sold as cracking down on illegal immigration, and has already spread to visa holders, will eventually also fully impact citizens who dissent in any way. I think there isn’t a safe status.
Good point, I have thought about this, as well. And who is to say that people who have only recently become citizens won’t be targeted in a specific way, vs. people who’ve been citizens for 20 years or what.
It all feels unsafe, to be honest – but I definitely do not want my legal immigration status to lapse in any way, out of fear that something might happen during the process.
Anecdotal, everyone I know that is eligible for US citizen and it won’t jeopardize their home country citizenship is applying now. Processing times vary based on your city but most I know of have had it done in a matter of months. Not sure about how it works with the green card renewal. Anecdotal as well, but renewal has been super slow for the past few years, and leaves you in a limbo with an expired green card and a receipt from INS saying you have renewed it.
Very helpful to hear anecdotes!
I’m having an identity crisis as an executive with respect to work from home. I’ve been working for over 20 years, and I have always been a champion of work from home. I’ve led two efforts as a junior to mid-level employee to force my then employers to adopt some sort of flexibility. (In both cases, they resisted, I got a competing job offer with flexibility, and they’ve acquiesced for the entire department.) I’m very proud that I could improve working conditions for myself and my colleagues. However, I’m in senior leadership, and I find myself resisting 100% work from home, and I’m a little embarrassed about it. I want to be progressive. I want to accommodate people’s home lives. But across the board (outside counsel and consultants as well as employees), I am seeing a lack of professionalism with it. It’s not a one off that I can ignore. Inappropriately casual dress, lack of grooming overall, barking dogs, crying kids (against our clear policy about childcare), tech issues, meetings from inappropriate places like the pool, etc. I’m the only woman on the leadership team, and I have always led the way with flexibility. But the other members of the team are getting fed up with it (as am I) and are ready to pull the plug on 100% wfh, moving to 3 days in office. If it was a couple people or outside providers, we would address it individually, but it’s not. I have to have a conversation with the managing partner at our main law firm about how lawyers are coming to meetings dressed in ratty t-shirts. I’m at a loss because I fought so long and hard for alternative work arrangements, and now I feel like the Wicked Witch of the West taking it away.
It doesn’t sound like you’re saying 100% in office either. Hybrid, especially with 1-2 days in office, is the combination that helps address some of the issues you’re listing while still giving people flexibility.
Why not bring up all the things you mention rather than pulling the plug on wfh? It’s not like those would go away if you still have people working from home 2 days a week, so better to deal with them directly.
I am doing that for the relationships that I own, but the rest of my management team is fed up and ready to pull the plug. If we move to 3 days in office, we plan to explain why in detail.
It’s incredibly embarrassing to have to tell the relationship partner that their fellow partners (who charge over 1K per hour) need to shut their dog up, so we can discuss mission critical items in peace for the hour we have them on the phone. But I agree, we need to be grown ups and use our words.
Incredibly embarrassing? More like annoying. Seems like catastrophizing to me.
My office moved to mandatory 2 days in office about 2 years ago. What we have experienced is employees showing up in office very casually dressed, counting 2-3 hours as a day in the office, counting any time off as “in office,” chipping at the edges. If your firm implements mandatory in office time, I recommend being very specific about the expectations for both in office time and WFH time. One would think this should not be necessary with lawyers, but that is not my experience.
if partners are modeling unprofessional standards, then maybe that needs to be addressed.
To me, it sounds like the lack of professionalism is the real issue. Sounds like there need to be much clearer requirements for where people work and how they present themselves while doing it. In my workplace, anyone with a hybrid arrangement has to meet a number of conditions (e.g., an established remote work setting, not from the pool; an understanding that if tech fails, you need to go into the office; you must have childcare). Otherwise, you get exactly what you’re seeing.
I think this is salvageable, but you need to put some accountability into place.
Seriously, this. I’m likely your age (40s) and when I started working from home in the 2010s I had to prove I had a dedicated office space, sign agreements around my tech capabilities (internet speed) and when I had a child I had to provide proof of childcare (daycare or nanny agreement). It was clearly stated that WFH was a benefit that can and would be terminated if I wasn’t meeting standards.
Start with reminding people of the requirements and clearly state that those who demonstrate they cannot meet them will be asked to return to in person work.
We still do this on a yearly basis! It applies to everyone, and it’s a BENEFIT, not an entitlement.
Agree. I’m not sure that requiring people to come into the office 2 days a week is going to fix this problem, because they’ll still be engaging in these behaviors when they work from home. The only potential upside I see is people may shape up if they believe they’ll lose the ability to WFH if they don’t.
The argument I get from the leadership team is that we simply do not see the same professionalism issues from the employees in the office. And that’s true.
But the common theme from the comments is to do a ‘one last warning’, and I think it’s fair. (I also think I can sell it to the leadership before they pull the plug.)
That’s what I’m saying. They won’t be unprofessional on the days they have to come into the office. But you will still see these issues on the days they work from home. Or is leadership telling you that they don’t see these issues from employees who have a hybrid schedule, irrespective of where they happen to be working?
You say one last warning, but have the expectations even been clearly communicated?
What is the dress code policy, where is it documented, and how is it communicated to employees?
What is the childcare policy? Does it specifically say that children must have childcare outside of the home? Obviously WFH employees may have a partner who cares for the children at home, which would account for the crying children in the background while not necessarily putting the employee in the wrong.
Similarly, is there a policy that pets should be cared for outside the home or secured in an area where they can’t be heard on calls?
Is there a policy that remote work must be done from a home office rather than other locations (like a pool)?
Clearly you think these things should go without saying, and perhaps they should, but they aren’t. The first step is to say them.
Right, it’s definitely unfair to punish employees who may have a nanny or other parent at home taking care of the baby. Occasionally hearing a child crying in the background of a zoom is no more annoying than the myriad disruptions that happen in the office, but you judge it differently.
What steps have you taken to address a systemic issue?
Have there been communications to all employees about professionalism and WFH, with concrete examples of what is accepted and what’s not? Are there policies in place, trainings, codes of conduct etc.?
I would look into some reinforcement of the message before any mandatory RTO rules, as this will give you and any other managers the basis to have individual conversations about expectations and document how employees are meeting them.
If you implement RTO now, employees may still show up unprofessionally for the remaining 2 days of the week, so RTO won’t necessary solve the underlying problem.
We have a work from home policy for every employee who qualifies for the program. They sign an acknowledgement every year that explains the requirements in detail, including professional dress. For myself, I follow up with my own employees when I notice them deviating. But I think the overall management team is sick of dealing with it, and don’t want to spend the time and energy reminding folks to be professional. I get it. It would become it’s own workstream. I think it’s the sheer volume.
I would probably try one more broadcasting to the employees, outlining what the consequences will be if no improvement is seen.
And then you give it another few weeks and then execute the new policy.
Then tell the team “idk why this is a problem for y’all? I manage my team and they are consistently
Showing up professionally and ready to work. When they skip I call them out on it and they adjust. I don’t like the idea that we are punishing everyone instead of managing our people and leading by example.”
Sorry we aren’t all going to applaud you for being amazing on this issue while you do nothing to support it now
Oh, I’m not asking for applause. It’s just a weird problem to have and am interested in hearing other professional women’s thoughts on it.
People may not even read the acknowledgment before signing it. An HR training where you have to review specific scenarios or examples might send a clearer message.
Like an internal ethics training on harassment or whatever, this can be done as a mandatory training with little quizzes and videos to ensure people pay attention. You’d hope people would already know what is appropriate, but enough don’t that you may need to spell it out.
I have never ever seen a workplace where people adjust their behavior based more on an HR-training-with-little-videos (oh, how many of those have I clicked through) than on what they see their peers and leaders actually doing.
^^ This. You can also outline expectations and say that failure to comply with the expectations will show up in performance reviews, etc.
Why are you contemplating pulling the plug on WFH? If people were showing up to the office in casual clothes, ungroomed, making noise, and not addressing tech issues, you wouldn’t blame the office. Do your job and set expectations, right?
lol. Why should she have to set an expectation that is common sense, has surely been communicated initially, etc? Are people stupid (obviously the answer must be yes). But if they can’t get it together—& probably most can but are actively choosing not to, then actions have consequences.
I agree that actions should have consequences. Clearly so far these actions haven’t, since they’re getting away with unprofessionalism. But they can be professional while WFH or unprofessional in the office. So address the problem already.
You are being the wicked witch to take this away from everyone instead of doing your job and managing people who are not behaving appropriately. And get a grip on the dogs.
I’m sorry what? Nobody wants to hear dogs barking throughout an entire phone call.
Offices can be noisy too. Just saying.
Also, I understand that dogs bark. I have them several of them that I love dearly and I can’t always control that. But I am a professional and what I can do is get a good enough headset that it doesn’t pick up the barking when I’m on a meeting. There are things you can do to minimize the disruption.
Completely agree. Or have a home office setup that is private enough that dogs barking isn’t overpoweringly loud. A dog barking outside a room with the door closed won’t be that audible.
Did you get a little dopamine rush being mean on the internet?
Love this!
The meanness is requiring people to come to the office cause you’re too lazy to say “Steve your dog is distracting could you relocate him”
Right? Why is it a big deal to address this in the moment?
People hate confrontation and would rather send an office-wide email revoking WFH than tell Steve to handle his dog. Infuriating.
In the dog scenario, we were in a time sensitive crisis situation. At one point pretty early in the call, I said ‘we can’t hear you because of the barking’ and the partner tried to put the dog away but we could still hear the dog. We went on with the call but it was not ideal. I pay a premium for professionalism. I am going to ask the relationship partner to address it.
Do these lawyers in a law firm or do they actually work for your company? Can you actually make Steve RTO?
Exactly. Many of us who are very professional about full remote are incensed that it’s going away because other people treat it like paid vacation.
I’m always logged in promptly at the start of the day; my calendar is up to date; I put my Teams on “away” when I’m at lunch; I wear a nice shirt and have some basic grooming going on before any on-camera meeting; my background is quiet; I let my manager know in advance if I will have childcare duties (eg early release day at school).
That’s… the bare minimum and not hard. People who can’t do that are the problem, not the fact that my “commute” is to a different room in my home.
I think the suggestions for addressing this with clear policies if they weren’t in place before and initially addressing the individual violations of them, noting that WFH is only allowed if you are compliant is the way to go. After a review cycle, revoke WFH just for the non-compliant. That way, the people who are working remotely in a pprofessional way aren’t punished.
Nothing kills morale faster than punishing everyone for the bad choices of a few people. Some of us positively thrive working from home and maintain professionalism.
Right now, you’re not managing the issues. Set clear standards with consequences and follow through.
This is a management issue, not a WFH issue. If the employees are not meeting expectations, then it is up to the managers to manage. Don’t complain about the fact that you have to manage people and that takes up your time. Do you have a WFH dress code? What about guidelines for all of the other behaviors? If not, then you have to first provide employees with written guidance. This is what employee handbooks are for. You can absolutely put people on performance plans if they fail to adhere to employee standards, but my guess is you haven’t all actually done it if people are continuing to not adhere to some unspoken “standard.”
These are going to be issues in an office too, they’ll just be different issues. Man up and take responsibility for holding people accountable. If the others don’t want to manage, they shouldn’t be managers.
“Don’t complain about the fact that you have to manage people and that takes up your time.”
This.
So in defense of required RTO – if it’s taking up a ton of management time and bandwidth, I can see the argument for revoking it across the board. Managers don’t have infinite time, and if you’re *constantly* talking to Steve about the dog, you’re *not* spending that time talking to Jane about what would level her up to qualify for the next promotion. It might fall in the same bucket as deciding as a firm you don’t want to have interns, because they require a lot of time to manage well that takes away from other priorities (there are both pros and cons of making that decision for your firm’s ultimate future, but making that call doesn’t inherently mean you’re not willing to manage).
I personally would move to a 1) Here are the requirements and we need to start actively enforcing them. 2) We understand WFH won’t work for everyone, sometimes for reasons outside of your control. . Sorry but them’s the breaks. 3) (Whatever your new plan is: ex, all WFH arrangements are reviewed annually; default is you must be in office 3 days/week unless your manager & skip level sign off on it; a 3-strikes policy on XYZ issue, or whatever else)
One question to think about – are your peers who want to revoke WFH entirely directly managing the problem people; or are they managing managers? (And for you too). Those are similar-but-different skillsets
That’s the perspective of the leadership team. Sure, they could manage wfh and force people to behave within the rules. But we have a million other priorities that require our time and attention. They are kind of exhausted by it. They’re not lazy, and they’re not bad managers. They just want to focus on other things. I understand it but I still believe deeply in flexibility, particularly for women. It’s a mix of managing individual contributors and managers.
They’re not doing anything to manage it
That’s not true at all.
If you have people who have been 100% at home for the last 5+ years, even with “one last warning”, you and the rest of the leadership team need to be prepared for attrition over this. That may be what you want – I am not convinced that pulling people into the office who are currently taking $1000/hr calls from the pool is going to *make* those people act professionally the way folks currently in office at least part time are (correlation/causation effect: maybe the people in office at least part time right now are disproportionately the ones who have underlying good professional judgment, and therefore *realized* that their home office wasn’t adequately soundproofed for that critical call – they’re in the office because they are professional, not because coming in to the office made them professional). But you and the rest of executive leadership do need to be thinking about this, and make sure you’re not caught flat footed. If I am paying external counsel $1000/hr, I would be very cranky if all my contacts turned over/my project was understaffed/etc because the firm’s leadership got fed up and make a rash move without a contingency plan.
I’m in house, not at a firm.
Are you being fair and assessing whether the same problems you’re observing with WFH are also occurring in the office? In our office, the anti-WFH CEO complained that people had occasional tech issues while completely ignoring that our office Comcast service regularly went down for hours at a time (it took over a year to fix). She complained that people weren’t responsive on Teams, but never mentioned that people in office would often go for long lunches or long walks and not respond on Teams. She complained that people had to step out for childcare pickup at home, ignoring that they would need to leave even earlier from the office to make it on time, resulting in less availability for late-afternoon meetings. We have a casual dress code so that was never an issue either way, but you get the idea.
Be honest and fair about the issues before you rush into unpopular decisions. Also, don’t punish your top WFH performers for a few bad apples. Is it “everyone” who is being “unprofessional”?
I think this is a fair comment, and I need to think about that. You’re right – the negative cases stick out and tend to overtake the narrative.
+1
Also consider the potential negative ramifications of RTO and whether your leadership team is interested in dealing with those. I’d be livid if I was a “good” WFH employee and had to come in 3 days/week because of other people’s problems. Will morale suffer? Will employees leave, and will any of those be key people? How does leadership feel about replacing these people? And after all of this, are people still going to be showing up in ratty T’s on their WFH day?
Your company needs clearly articulated standards for work from home, and a way to handle violations.
“On camera appearances will be neat and professional, with a blurred background to an appropriate background.”
You are receiving a lot of criticism here, but I was in the same position, and my company recently RTO 2 days per week due to these same issues. And to everyone saying “this is a management issue” – that is true. However, we have WFH contracts that clearly outline expectations. We had an all-hands meeting. We addressed issues with people one-on-one. And we would see improvement for a few weeks and then start the cycle over again. At some point, it becomes an unjustifiable waste of time and resources. (And while it is relatively easy to address dress code issues, identifying the specific person with the crying baby or barking dog can be difficult.)
A huge part of our problem was that our employees were under the impression that we could not require RTO because of office space limitations, so they did not need to comply, which was not true for 2 days per week (and we could manage 3 and have told them that, but we are also considering increasing our footprint).
If your response to this thread is “barking dogs are not a big deal” or “you need to have yet another meeting because employees are too immature to read and follow directions” – working from home was not the default in office settings until 2020 and this attitude is precisely why it is not likely to be the default by 2030.
Thanks, yes we have been doing a lot to try to manage it. Our policy addresses all of it – dress code, tech, childcare, etc. We have conversations with employees who are not conforming. We have sent out emails. We require a signed acknowledgement at the start of the program and yearly thereafter. It gets better and then backslides. I just…can’t believe I’m here. I was always for as much flexibility as possible, but then I have gotten into a leadership position, and I’m seeing things differently. It’s weird.
I think penalizing your staff for the lack of professionalism by outside counsel is inappropriate. You seem to be lumping in Steve with the dog with your employees, and those kinds of missteps should not be part of a call for RTO. Make sure that the general frustration you and the exec team are talking about is actually the result of your employees’ conduct.
You absolutely should light up your outside counsel, though — inappropriate dress and locations for calls is ridiculous, particularly at V10 prices.
The only reason that I mentioned the firm is to make the point that this is an across the board problem – it runs the gamut across all levels.
When you message these issues to your staff, you also need to be very clear about how the issues are affecting performance. Some of what you are mentioning might be unprofessional, but is doesn’t seem to actually affect the work anyone is doing. The dog barking and background noise issues do, especially if it’s an ongoing issue or something the employee has control over.
I still remember when a male attorney I work with led a meeting from a kid’s play place (or at least that’s what it sounded like). He didn’t acknowledge before the call that he wasn’t at home, and the whole meeting he was shouting over people screaming in the background and various sirens/other noises, and his audio kept cutting out. A theme of the call was also that he was upset about how prepared others had been for another call, etc. It did not go over well with the team.
Does anyone know what the timing is like for routine US passport renewals? Like it I send it in by Labor Day, might I get it back by Xmas?
Following this question because I need to renew mine before March 2026.
Earlier this year I paid for expedited handling and had my passport in two weeks.
+1 I just had mine updated last month with a last name change and got it back in 2 weeks upon notification they received my info. So two weeks for a renewal with expediting processing + handling sounds about right.
Same. But I always think sooner rather than later is the time to renew.
The State Department has historically published this information on their website. Is it no longer being published?
I did a routine renewal on mine in April, and it came back in 6 weeks. The website has anticipated processing times, and I think when I submitted mine, it said 6-8 weeks.
I got my renewal back in about 3 weeks.
I believe so. I just submitted my renewal (online) this week, and all the emails I’m getting updating my renewal status talk about normal processing time taking 4-6 weeks. We’ll see what happens.
A work colleague recently got theirs back in two weeks. Just an anecdote.
I would build in more time than that though.
They seem to process normally now. Mine was 3 weeks.
My son did his online renewal application in early May, not expedited, and received it in about 4 weeks.
I just did mine, not expedited. The estimate on the website was 4-5 weeks but I got it back in just under 3.
Yes. My one caveat is that I made an appointment at my local passport office for the photos and notary and stuff like that. The UPS store photos were rejected as not compliant
I just renewed last month (non-expedited) and received it in 4 weeks.
I just did mine normal processing time and got it within 3 weeks.
I have a pair of Cole Haan leather loafers that continue to feel stiff, even after quite a few wears. I don’t want to give up on them, because they’re the right shape and formality for what I need, but it’s really annoying me! Any ideas for what I can do to break these in more? I’ve worn them probably 20-30 times.
Do they also feel tight? I find Cole Haan runs narrow, even their regular width. If you’ve already worn them 20+ times, I’m guessing the leather is just stiff by nature and not as soft as a more expensive leather. I like Cole Haan styling, so it’s irritating when their shoes don’t work for me.
Leather conditioner.
Or, depending on whether these are casual or dress shoes (ie, how much you care about them), you could just get in a bathtub with them and then walk around until they dry. I do this every summer with new boat shoes – just dunk my feet in the river/lake. And did the bathtub routine with Army boots back when we wore leather. (They wear suede now.)
This is just a vent. My latest mammogram results came back, and require further scans, etc. I’ve been through this SO OFTEN, and am just done with the never-ending rounds of mammograms, call-back mammograms, ultrasounds, and biopsies.
I know all the reasons for doing it.
But I hate going through this again and again.
I’m right there with you. I posted several months ago about feeling over-medicalized and like I was constantly being sent for appointments for things that ended up being fine. Since then, I had a false positive breast MRI that required a biopsy and only after the fact does the doctor say “we would have recommended waiting for longer after stopping breastfeeding to get this MRI.” I know it’s important. I know I have high familial risk. But I am SO SICK of it too. I’ve burned so much PTO for this crap.
I don’t know all the reasons for doing it this way. Why can’t they at least do the mammogram and the ultrasound at the original appointment? Why can’t they have someone look at the mammogram and see if it’s adequate before they send me home from that first appointment? It feels like they’re trying to cut corners and creating a bunch of extra hassle.
Totally agree. If you get sent back for a diagnostic mammogram and they can’t get a good image, they’ll often send you for an ultrasound right there. Why can’t they do that with screening mammograms as well?
Insurance. Only a routine screening is covered automatically. You have to have a reason for a diagnostic test.
The place I went for mammograms used to read them before I left. It was great. They don’t do it anymore because of staffing issues, so that might be the reason for the multiple appointments. It does suck, though.
Looking for a pair of knee high black boots that are comfortable for a lot of walking. Either suede or leather is fine. Thanks!
how many of you have jobs that are directly related to your college major? i feel like this idea that high school kids need to know what they want to do and major in something related is not something that my peers were so focused on. There were people who wanted to go to medical school or be teachers but most people didn’t go to college (4 year selective colleges) with a clear plan. Tangentially related, how many people think an unemployed young person should wait for a job “in their industry” as opposed to excepting something else (like a general office/ administrative job).
I do. I majored in English and am now an editor.
I think unemployed grads need to be flexible and try to learn from any opportunity, but it depends on how in-demand their desired role is and whether they are willing to really go for it and endure rejections.
I wanted to work in book publishing but broadened out to other industries with higher revenue. I rejected journalism right off the bat because I knew it has already tanked.
i hestitate to comment on unemployed recent grads as there was a lot of snark associated with yesterday’s post but if my kid is unemployed when they graduate from college i think they should take any job than be sitting at home….
I started college planning on majoring in a certain language and something like finance, so I could work abroad at a bank. My first semester I took a non-majors class on a specific biological science, changed my major to that, and ended up getting a PhD.
And upon getting said PhD, I did a lab-based postdoc, worked in industry for a couple of years, then did some science writing, and now have a job in research administration that I didn’t even know existed until about 3-4 years before I got the job.
So yeah, I’m kind of boggled by the idea of needing to know in high school what you are going to do for the rest of your life. I also saw a lot of friends who started college determined to be doctors… sort of flame out. So it’s important to be open to all options.
I do. Have a journalism/advertising degree (at my college, advertising was in the j-school, not business). I worked in a marketing agency for years and now do corporate communications.
+1 – I sorta do. I have a PR degree and have worked in internal comms, PR, IR, and marketing with my longest stint to date being IR. This is hilarious to my CFA husband who knows how terrible I am at math, but I use the PR/writing/comms skills I was taught all the time.
I mean not really, although my college major was business and I now own a small professional business. The classes were more like, marketing, advertising, sales, etc. and I don’t do any of that. Amusingly enough, even though my major was business and my sister’s major was film studies now she makes a TON more money than me (although her job is not in any way related to film or the arts at all).
As far as your second question goes, I expect to tell my kids when they’re older that if you can’t get your “dream job” right away, you still need to work, so you gotta take a job somewhere and general office work is a lot better than a lot of the alternatives. Guess it really depends on what they ultimately want to do and are good at though, I suppose.
Um, I was a philosophy major. I absolutely loved that, especially symbolic logic and stoicism. I’d be shocked that there are jobs in this field. I joked about just becoming a psychic (why not? I’m good at asking gentle questions and am pretty intuitive) but I am a tax lawyer (which I also find fascinating).
I do but haven’t always. I also have an MPA and it’s probably more directly beneficial as I advance in management vs subject matter expertise.
Directly related, I have also encountered people with undergraduate degrees in music or other art forms who have very successful careers in other areas but they wanted to study that art form as an undergraduate.
My undergraduate field of study has also changed as technology has changed. I think aside from a few subjects most of us won’t be in stagnant careers anyway.
I do. As a teenager, I was really interested in supermarkets and stores. I loved the way a supermarket either a bakery smelled in the morning. (This is not so true anymore.) My undergraduate degree is BSBA with a marketing focus, my MBA is in Marketing Management. My first jobs were in supermarket buying, merchandising, and planning. I saw that eventually consolidation would reduce jobs, and that consumer products companies had more money to do interesting work. So, I pivoted to a CPG company which sells to supermarkets and retailers.
At the core, my career interest is in companies that sell things to people they use every day, though I’m not a salesperson. I was fortunate that I knew this as a young person, but if I hadn’t , I would have liked to try working for both a very big company and a small company before I decided what to do with my career.
FWIW, my post graduate work was in technology because retailers use of technology is increasingly sophisticated.
Yes and no? My undergrad was in theatre and when I graduated, I was looking for both arts roles and any full-time job that would hire me. At a community level, I use it all the time – my main out of work activity is community theatre. And day to day, I use the things I learned there to shape what I’m doing, especially since I was mostly backstage, not on stage during my degree program. But none of my salaried jobs have been in the arts like I thought I would be doing.
I have a music performance degree that I use on the side. The stage experience is very useful for all the public speaking that is required in my day job.
My other undergraduate major is English. A lot of what I learned in critical theory transfers to my day job.
Me. I’m a lawyer in a technical field, and I have a physics degree.
But…. I think that shows that if you get a degree in something that you enjoy, you can have it help your career without doing that specific thing professionally.
Just ranting.
Sick and feeling sorry for myself. Went to the walk-in clinic and its not strep, flu, or covid, just some random viral thing that’s going around. Just feel like crap and have to cancel my weekend plans. Every August for the last few years, I’ve gotten sick (including covid twice) and it just ruins the end of the summer for me.
I totally get it and I’m sorry!
Is it possible to lean into summer things while resting? Have ice cream for dinner or some lovely in season fruit? Watch a big summer blockbuster on your couch? Hopefully you recover soon – I find that allowing myself to properly rest kicks things out of my system much quicker than when I try to push through.
You’ve ruled out environmental allergens that peak in August, right?
I’m looking at a job offer from a large global financial institution. Beyond the offer letter itself, there are several addendums that cover things like non arbitration, non solicitation, required notice periods (60 days(!!) for my level) and a few other things. While I recognize some of these agreements may be fairly standard and pretty non negotiable in the eyes of the company, should I have an employment attorney review? Will the employment attorney be able to tell me if this is market? What might it cost for that review, also?
I’m in Boston if that helps with cost estimates. Also open to referrals if you know of any one solid. This is for an Executive Director-level role (15+ years of experience). TY!
Also, I know that 60 days notice is not market in the broader job market. But this is really niche and … well maybe it is at this level/this line of work? I’m staying within my broad industry umbrella but the place of employment is vastly different and a first for me so I’m totally unsure of what’s market in this universe.
Is “non arbitration” = required arbitration?
The 60 days thing is the thing that really gives me pause though. Any chance it’s a copy-over from their agreement for a different country?
If you’re a W-2 employee in MA, the 60 day notice period is likely unenforceable. But executive offers can be different. It wouldn’t hurt to have a lawyer look at it. The non-solicitation is standard. Non-arb is weird because normally they are pro-arb.
I wouldn’t bother, I’ve never known a company to negotiate those terms. It’s take it or leave it and I wouldn’t waste money or time hiring counsel. That said, ask a friend if you’re friends with an employment lawyer and want to understand.
Any suggestions on where to shop for a bat mitzvah dress? My daughter is 5’, has a bust but tiny hips/waist. We are in NY suburbs. I’m hoping for something under $300.
For tween formal-ish wear I really like the brand Un Deux Trois. It comes in both kids’ and juniors’ sizes. Available at some department stores and on its own website.
I suggest petite studio. The dresses look summery, but she could add a cardigan or jacket maybe.
Anyone have personal experience with jewelry from Grown Brilliance? I am looking at a pair of lab-grown diamond studs.