Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Shell Tank
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A perfect shell is a must for fall layering. This silky sleeveless top from Banana Republic Factory comes in a bunch of different solids and prints, but I love this colorway for wearing with the camels/chocolate browns/navies of autumn.
I would like to see this with a navy blazer and an acorn-brown midi skirt for a perfect business casual look.
The top is $12.97-$41.97 at Banana Republic Factory — with an extra 25-50% off at checkout — and comes in sizes XXS-XXL.
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Help me decide if this is genuinely rude or I’m overreacting. I’m traveling right now for a long memorial weekend of sorts for my grandmother and the other grandkids (4 of us total) are there too with our kids. My father and his sister led the plan. One of the things they really wanted to do all together was a special lunch date in honor of Grandma at a place she used to take all of us when we were young (imagine lunch at the Plaza Hotel – nothing anyone needs to wear a suit for but special for out of towners). One of the four grandkids, my cousin, suddenly goes last night “I don’t think I’m going to go. I don’t really have an outfit for the occasion and I only brought stained dresses for the girls.” She seems prepared to just casually blow it off as if this wasn’t a plan with sentimental value that was made weeks ago. She obviously has clothes that she could have brought from home for herself and her kids.
I’m pissed because without her there, the vibe of the whole family doing this together is not as our parents planned and if I’m honest, she’s always pulled crap like this – just blowing off something that matters to other people for the flimsiest of reasons (and sometimes acting later like people just aren’t being understanding that she COULDN’T go through no fault of her own – there were no clothes in her suitcase she packed, you see!). I love her dearly and she truly adds to the pleasure of a gathering when she’s there, but this is a pattern with her for unknown reasons. I’m not arguing that she’s not an adult who can make her own choices, but I want a reality check on whether this is rude or not to other people when this inevitably comes up in discussion later today and people start trying to convince her to go. I wasn’t planning to (as long as she deigns to show up for the spreading of the ashes tomorrow) but I’m doubting I can hide my annoyance. And if our parents express disappointment, I would acknowledge their hurt feelings, but I don’t want to contribute to a negative vibe overall if this is something others would consider NBD. I just need the reality check.
It’s not NBD, but I would also avoid piling on in absentia. You didn’t cause her to act that way, but you also don’t know if there are some emotions or other reasons why she doesn’t want to attend. Just steer the conversation away to memories of Grandma.
1. I’m sorry for your family’s loss.
2. I just don’t even understand people anymore. Why would you pack stained clothes for a trip (that’s not a camping trip)? I’m assuming she’s not suddenly surprised that a stowaway snickers bar or a lipstick melted all over everything.
I forgot my fancy clothes on hangers for a trip that included a bridal shower and I just went out to Steinmart and bought something that would do. Even Target would have something that would be OK if the stains are noticeable. I’m not even inclined to care about stains on children’s clothing — who is to say that that stain didn’t just happen?
OP here and I think that’s what bothered me – she agreed to this plan and then only packed stained clothes? If she didn’t want to go, there are other, more direct ways to say that. And it would be understandable if everyone got dressed to go and then there was a major incident that wrecked the kids’ clothes, but that isn’t what happened.
I’m with you that this is incredibly annoying. I also come from a family where it’s impossible to say something directly ahead of time and not get harassed every single day leading up to an event if people don’t like your answer.
Assuming that special event had been clearly communicated in advance, yes, I think it’s rude. I have a very low tolerance for people backing out of plans generally, but a special family event on a special family weekend is especially important.
Yeah, I am a Stickler for group and family events. I think i would try to point out the problem and provide some solutions – “aw, man! We were really looking forward to being with the whole group to remember Gramma! It would definitely feel different without you there. The clothes look fine or you could easily buy new ones at Target.”
But I would also not try and insist that they go because I find that then those people usually ruin everything for everyone else and you end up wishing they hadn’t come in the first place. So maybe a “but if you just can’t make it, well understand” and then absolutely understand that she is not someone to count on for this kind of event again.
Sometimes a “well, it’s up to you” or “it’s your decision. We’d love to see you” can be good in this scenario – it’s not giving the blessing to flake but it’s not rude.
I do think it’s rude. I also think you have to let this go, as much as possible. You can’t change her and you can’t fix this. I would acknowledge your parents’ disappointment, as you said, but I wouldn’t try to convince her or otherwise make this your problem. I know that isn’t easy though!
This right here. It’s super rude but at this point all you can do is try to make the best of it.
This sounds annoying, but I don’t see the point in getting worked up over it. She probably has her reasons why she doesn’t want to go but for whatever reason doesn’t want to share them and comes up with these flimsy excuses instead. It’s hard traveling with a big group of people and it works better if you just let people do what they need to do, even if it’s not ideal behavior and this type of flaky person isn’t my favorite and I generally avoid making plans with them or counting on them for anything. Focus on honoring your grandma with all of the people that are there (it sounds like there will be plenty of them as it is) and enjoy the time you do spend with your cousin when she’s there.
I think it’s both rude and you’re taking it a bit too personally. What seems sentimental and really special to you could just seem like a lunch to her. Maybe she doesn’t associate the same great memories with your grandma and this place that you do, and that’s okay!
I’d go and enjoy yourself and just stop worrying about what she’s doing. Spend the time with those who are there and remember grandma.
+1. Yes, I think it is rude for her to skip it, but also, it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day what your cousin does or doesn’t do. You can still honor and celebrate your grandmother without her there.
Agreed with this.
This may not be the case, but it is possible she is not equipped to handle her feelings in a public group setting like this and doesn’t know how to communicate that. She may not even be aware that is what she is doing. People process grief in different ways, and she may prefer to handle hers privately.
rude but not worth making A Stink over. She clearly doesn’t want to do it for some reason, so just have a good time making memories with the rest of the group and don’t spend a special weekend letting Sister’s decision take over the mood.
Obviously it’s rude but who really cares? I would refuse to discuss it. “Welp that’s her choice! I’m looking forward to it remember how good the soup always is?”
Super rude of her
Two things can be true. She could have wanted to go when it was planned, but now it might seem to be too much. I don’t think canceling is blowing off like it’s not important.
As a mom of a toddler, she may feel overwhelmed about bringing small children who stain their clothes to this fancy setting. It’s possible she canceled because her kids had just caused a big mess or had a blowout, etc. Frankly I can’t imagine bringing my messy toddler to the Plaza Hotel, which would trigger so many memories of my grandma, while also grieving.
Why do you think her kids are toddlers? The OP doesn’t give the kids ages. I think this is a flimsy and maybe meet up excuse from somebody who’s a flake, and just doesn’t wanna go to the event. Yes, I think it’s rude. But I’m big on showing up for things (which I realize is going out of fashion) and will judge people who skip without a real excuse.
Toddlers typically have stained clothing. These kids are messy (at any age) if their clothes are all stained. I can’t imagine taking messy kids to a formal dining setting while also grieving.
Yes, she’s rude, but acknowledging her rudeness is only going to make things worse.
Thanks all. I don’t plan to say anything else to her about it but it it comes up or if she asks me if it was out of line (I’m almost sure she might get pushback from our parents), I’ll say that they’re disappointed. Good enough.
Well you are nicer than I would be!
And what does being rude back to rude accomplish for you in life?
I mean… it’s rude, but also get over it? I don’t mean to be harsh, but I wouldn’t give her crazy attitude. That’s childish. Enjoy the time with her for what she does show up for and otherwise just move along. This isn’t about her, it’s about your grandmother.
And, who knows what else she’s got going on in her world. Taking my kids to The Plaza (or anywhere right now, ’cause toddlers gonna toddle…) sounds insanely stressful fwiw. Maybe there’s a reason beyond what you can see or understand causing her to make choices she’s making. Or, maybe she’s just a space cadet and she’s not understanding how her choice may impact others. But that’s where I revert back to my “get over it?” comment, move along and don’t let it ruin your day.
I agree with the responses that say not to make a big deal.
I am imagining what your cousin would post here and what the reactions would be. She might say “I have traveled with my young children on short notice to this giant family gathering and they insist on spending every minute together. I need some downtime away from the crowd, and my kids need a nap or time to run around outside. How terrible would it be if I skipped the luncheon? Taking the kids to a fancy restaurant and expecting them to be silent and still for two hours will be horrible. I can’t believe my inconsiderate parents are insisting on this, especially since the Plaza wasn’t really as big of a tradition as they are making it out to be.” If that were the story, people would be squarely on the side of “setting boundaries.”
She’s set her boundary by declaring what she will and will not do. Whether or not you agree with it, best just to respect it.
OP here and who knows what her real reasons are (I suspect it could have to do with her husband, but that’s a story for another day), but I will say that this has been planned for six months and her input on the schedule for the joint events was sought at multiple points. There’s PLENTY of downtime – this lunch is the one event today, then we have the ashes tomorrow, and that is it. Our kids have been on the playground since 6 am (sigh for me). I would totally understand the narrative you described in other circumstances, but it just doesn’t fit here. The good news is that everyone else seems really glad to be here and be together again so the overall vibe is positive and I’m focusing on that at this point. Got my reality check, am acknowledging it’s rude, and moving on.
OK, so the husband angle changes the story a lot. If her husband is controlling or manipulating her or holding her back, you need to be a little more understanding.
No, nothing like that – it’s that he sometimes has manners and a bad attitude at family events. There was one occasion where I know for sure she was embarrassed about it.
You are judging her for wanting to maintain her dignity?
Sounds like “stained dresses” is a euphemism for “unpresentable spouse” to me.
Ok for real? Be kinder. It must suck to have a husband you can’t bring around at family events cause he’s an ill mannered jerk. Get her a to go dessert.
How is it being paid for? Maybe she doesn’t feel like doing the whole split the check a million different ways.
Ha, I’m starting to enjoy all these super-reach explanations. Her mother (wealthy/generous) is paying for all of us.
Given you can reject the “super-reach explanations”, then you already have your answer. Not sure why you’re asking here.
This is not at you or about you. Just get over it.
I spent several years of my marriage extremely frustrated by MIL and FIL either refusing to plan at all or last minute flaking out. As in, we couldn’t even plan when the Christmas gathering would be, and they expected us to keep it open so that some last minute plan could be implemented. However, I am not an orphan and needed to make plans with my side of the family so that others could work out their holiday schedules. I spent many moments in great frustration.
It turned out that on the wagon alcoholic FIL was no longer on the wagon and was now a secret, raging, active alcoholic, and MIL didn’t know until the last minute whether he would be fit for being around others or not. After that was finally revealed it was still frustrating for planning, but at least I understood where she was coming from.
+1. The clothes are a lame excuse and maybe she has a history of flaking for no good reason. But in this situation I get why bringing her kids to another best-behavior-required event sounds exhausting. Let them have their downtime.
What I would do, if you had time, is pop into a shop and buy dresses for the girls this morning. Give them to her discretely and say, in case you feel like coming, I’m happy to give you a hand with the girls. You can be disappointed, but I’m betting there might be something else going on here.
It would be super weird to go out and buy clothes for her kids IMO.
That is so passive-aggressive & manipulative. Absolutely do not do this.
On no planet in this galaxy is this the right choice.
No, this is not the right approach.
If there’s something else going on, is it really the right move to try to call her bluff?
Please do not do this!!!
This is rude. It’s also not your rodeo — and I mean that in two directions. You don’t have to make it okay; if someone asks you how you feel about it, you can be honest. And you don’t have to hide your annoyance.
On the other hand, you needn’t bring it up or adjudicate it.
Go and enjoy the event. When it comes up in discussion later, you can acknowledge people’s feelings and say something like, “I do wish they were here,” but then don’t add fuel that discussion.
This is the way.
Thanks – this is what I’m going to do. It feels right to say “yeah, I’m disappointed she’s not coming after all” but then shift to the positive memories and all the rest. We’re going in about 2 hours so who knows, maybe she will even change her mind.
I think this is disrespectful and rude and worthy of pulling her aside and telling her so. It is also setting a bad precedent/example for her children. And frankly it is denying her kids the opportunity to be part of an event that I suspect your family will talk about in years to come. So yeah, I’d take her to the woodshed for a “conversation.”
Kids who are small enough to have stained all their clothes will neither remember this event, nor will they want to sit still for it. I as a parent would have horrible visions of them spilling all over the table, themselves, and other guests. My family often has no children weddings for a reason.
I was perfectly capable of eating lunch in a restaurant as a small child. This is not a seminar, it is a meal.
But the point is OP’s relative’s kids are clearly not, if they’re messy enough to stain their clothes frequently.
Or they have unstained clothes at home and they weren’t packed for mysterious reasons.
It’s interesting to read the varying perspectives here. I see this as an obligation that isn’t meaningful to the kids. It’s their great grandparent who they presumably don’t know well and they’ll forget about this lunch before they’re old enough to understand the significance. The lunch is for the adults and the kids are dragged along.
On the other hand, the memorial schedule was planned months in advance. If she didn’t want to attend she should’ve spoken up early. I don’t think it’s worth badgering her into coming but it would color my view of her.
Maybe, maybe not. I still clearly remember being upset that I was not invited to travel to my great grandmother’s funeral with my father. I would have been 8 at the oldest but I think younger.
And I barely remember my grandma who passed when I was 9.
Yeah I have one decently behaved 7 year old and although I would probably bring her along to something like this, especially in an unfamiliar city where I didn’t have access to a go-to babysitter, I don’t think it’s as automatic as some are making it out to be. It sounds like a hard place to take kids and not a memory that’s going to be special or significant for the kids – they just have to go so the adults can go. I’d cut her some slack if the kids are 6 and under, which I’m guessing they are based on the stained clothes.
If I were OP, I wouldn’t say anything. But if I were OP’s cousin, I think I would be better to go alone/tell your husband he needs to take the minions to blow off steam at the children’s museum while you go to this fancy family thing.
OP, if you think the issue might somehow really be the clothes, I guess you could grab your cousin alone & offer to take all the kids to the park if she wants to run to target? I think if you offer with a sympathetic enough tone of voice, make it easy to say no to, and offer without the rest of family hearing so if she turns it down it won’t contribute to the drama, it’s a pretty low risk offer, and at least covers the potential “my 2 year old and 4 year old slipped their paint kit into the suitcase undetected and I am just totally overwhelmed” possibility.
I fully agree that the husband should wrangle the kids so OP’s cousin can participate in the event. That’s how it works in both my family and my DH’s family – if the whole family can’t participate, the non-bio related parent is responsible for the children so the related parent can go and be fully present. But if that’s not happening for various reasons, the cousin is back to the same initial choice of don’t go or go with the kids and it may be between those two unappealing options the latter is even less appealing.
Hugs. I’d be annoyed too. It’s rude. But I have family members who struggle with stuff like this and it sounds like your cousin is struggling. Packing stained clothes is not the behavior of someone who isn’t. I get the frustration; she should get her stuff together and just show up. But she’s struggling, I’m willing to bet on it.
My husband’s stepdad once flew cross country and packed nothing but jeans to wear to his own son’s black tie wedding. Funny, silly, selfish? Yeah. But mostly not a man was getting through his daily life without tremendous struggle. I have sadder stories about people who’ve missed weddings and funerals and these were just not people who were doing very well day to day even if I couldn’t see it at the time.
Don’t judge yourself for being annoyed hurt or frustrated but try to give her grace. People can drown in the ocean or in a bucket of water.
Sending kind thoughts to your family at this time. I hope the luncheon is lovely regardless.
Coming back to say my brother did something quite similar when we buried my parents a few years ago: It was the first time all four siblings (two whole, two half) had been together in, I kid you not, 50 years. We did the interment at a military ceretery and then were going to have a special lunch at a hotel that had great meaning to my parents. And Youngest Brother just blew off the lunch and started his drive back home directly from the cemetery. To say I was irked is a gigantic understatement.
And you know what? It was his loss. Those of us who were there had a wonderful time and truly, he was the one who missed out.
Totally – it’s a shame when the person who flakes can’t participate in remembering the event later (such good bonding can come from that), but it’s their choice and loss.
I have a brother like this, and I understand your frustration. In my view – it is rude, for sure. With my brother, he will make flimsy excuses (my cat is sick, or I can’t take a day off work because then I might not have enough days off at the end of the year even though I have nothing actually planned, or I just don’t feel like going) like this to avoid going to special family events that have been planned for ages (i.e. grandmother’s 80th birthday, neice’s 1st birthday, cousin’s wedding who has always come to things for us).
My sister and I have tried to figure out exactly why it annoys us so much, and have landed on – as an adult, there are sometimes events that aren’t your most favourite thing/not that important to you, but they are VERY important to someone else that you care about, and so you go. You don’t always do exactly what you want to do at all times. Sometimes, you do the thing that is going to make grandma happy because that is more important than staying home for no reason. And my sister and I have internalized that, but he has not. He is not a rude/uncaring/selfish person – I think he is a bit immature and doesn’t really get how his choices affect other people.
But also, I have also realized that adults are allowed to have different priorities, and as an adult you DO get to do what you want, you just have to live with the consequences. If doesn’t care that he is hurting people’s feelings by not showing up, then that’s on him. So now I just roll my eyes but don’t get personally annoyed. But I completely understand why this is frustrating to you.
OP here and you’ve nailed it – as I mentioned in the OP, this is a long pattern of casually blowing off commitments even when she knows full well it really, really matters to someone else, and she had ample time to plan and make it work if she wanted to.
Have you asked her if her husband could stay back with the kids, and she could go alone?
This is what I would do, and I would push a bit more than many on this site.
Sometimes we need to do the things we would rather not for the people we love. Her parent will never forget she refused to go to this lunch.
Then stop expecting her to show up at things.
Yeah, I totally get it. We have tried to gently persuade my brother to come to these kinds of things, because I care about the other person who is going to be hurt. At the end of the day, he now has a reputation of not showing up to things and he just has to deal with that. He’s an adult so if he doesn’t care, then I’m not going to waste my energy on it either. Your cousin will ultimately be in the same spot and if she doesn’t care, those are her priorities and you can’t change them. But I FULLY support venting about it here!
I would be hurt or annoyed by this. But I would try to get over it by recognizing there may be stuff going on that I’m not aware of, and just say to her: we’d love to have you there, is there anything you are concerned about or that we can do to make this work better for you? If not, you will be missed.
Is it possible that this special event will be an expense that she can’t take on right now? If so, I can see her lying about ‘why’ she’s not going to save face in front of family.
Similar situations in the past, same possible monetary issues…?
Looking for gift ideas for a birthday for someone who loves new gadgets, electronics, tools – including both garage and kitchen tools. If they didn’t already have these things, a new phone or smart watch, charging station, would be perfect.
I’d look at Hammacher Schlemmer.
For a more specific kitchen idea, I really like our meat thermometer. Good ones aren’t cheap but not too expensive for a bday gift so it’s a good sweet spot.
What do they like to do and what’s your budget? If they like long walks, a heated vest/ socks for winter. In the kitchen, something I’d gift but not buy for myself would be an adjustable burr grinder for coffee.
They like video games and motorbikes, and they work construction, and can afford to buy themselves whatever they want, and they have expensive taste so it’s hard! Budget is <$250, probably, but I've spent more for the right gift.
have they done an oura or whoop? might be nice if they like biohacking. do they have a 3d printer? hard to find a use for it but we just made a gothic tower structure for a moss pole.
not quite a garage tool but there are gadgety type things for watering on a timer. can take time to set up the drip lines/soaker hoses though.
A borescope!
I got my husband an rooftop weather station a few years ago and it was a huge hit.
Snap! I gave my grandsons one a long time ago. It is still in place and fondly remembered.
video birdfeeder or birdhouse? the new Airpods that have tr–slation capability? new watchband or case? knife sharpener?
Joseph Joseph Helix potato ricer. Very cool construction, rices potatoes perfectly for smooth mash or gnocchi dough.
Duebel molecular gastronomy foam generator to make food or cocktail foam, if he likes Heston Bloomenthaly things.
Sage cold smoking gun to add smoke flavour to foods.
NEWS from Chapter 13…my Big 4 background check came clear! I’m over the moon!!!
Congratulations!
YAY! So thrilled for you! Go get it!
YAY!!!!
Yay, that’s awesome!!!
YAY!!!! Best Friday news ever!!!
That is fantastic – congratulations!!
Yay!!!! Congratulations! So very happy for you.
That’s the best news! Congratulations!
You have just made this internet stranger’s day! You don’t have to pretend to accept the other job! I am truly thrilled for you. Congratulations!!!
+1! I’m so glad you have good news!
Congrats!!
SO excited for you!
Have been following your updates – congrats, thrilled for you!!!
So happy for you!!
I’m so happy for you!!!!! Yes!!!!!
Yesssss girl!!!! Congratulations!!! I’m so happy for you!!!
SO great!!
Congrats!!
Yayyyyy!
congratulations!!!
Congratulations! You should put some of the new income aside, but consider whether getting ahead of your payments makes sense so that you can get out from under some of the dread you have each time with new apartments and jobs, etc., in the event you have another change in the next year.
Congratulations!!!
HOORAY!!! Happy dancing along with you!!
Congratulations! And also thank you for modeling how to Do the Difficult Thing. (Quick answer: Gather your courage and take the first step. Then the next step. Repeat until finished.)This is the outcome you wanted! Be proud of yourself for helping to make it happen.
Seconding this!! Have been following your updates – congrats and so thrilled for you!!!
You were a bit of an inspiration to me to follow my gut for a career change, and so far, it’s been much better physically, mentally, and I’ve met great new people!
So thank you for this—and again congrats so much!!
Yay! So happy for you. I know it’s been a long road.
Really happy for you and so inspired by your story.
Woo-hoo!
Congratulations!
That’s great!
Congratulations!
SO happy for you!!!!
Congrats! So excited for your next chapter!
I am so happy for you!!!!!
Closet downsizing help? I am 42, moving from a LCOL 3-br house with every closet and dresser full of clothes and shoes (4 season climate) to a HCOL small apartment with one closet and a couple drawers (still 4 season climate). I have some excellent storage suggestions but honestly, I need to purge. I love my wardrobe, 95+% of it fits, but I love this new job and transfer. Any ruthless ideas that have worked for you?
Lots of advice on YT from decluttering professionals, but it boils down to – take everything out of the closet and into piles – black pants, sweaters, winter dresses, etc. Be really truthful with yourself – even if it fits, do you actually reach for it? Would you be willing to pay to store it (b/c that is what you are going to have to do). How many pair of black work pants do you actually need? Given the storage in your new place, you have to get really honest with yourself. If you have a friend who is honest, and ruthless, see if they want to help for an hour or two – it can be useful to have someone there to keep you accountable. Good luck – doing this in a hurry is never fun.
I just moved and basically did this. My only additional suggestion is to be very honest about the condition of your faves. I still liked and wore certain items that were actually stretched out, pilling, or outdated.
what would you pack if you were being photographed for 3 of every type of outfit (your three best work outfits, your three favorite casual outfits, your 3 favorite going out outfits… you get the drift). take that and put it in your closet. Leave everything else in suit cases in your mothers garage or whatever your equivalent is. See what you miss and go from there.
i do think it would be very hard for most americans to have one closet and a couple of drawers and not do a seasonal switch (like when i lived in a Manhattan apartment i did a swap between summer and winter, my parents had space in burbs but otherwise people i knew rented a small storage unit).
I would actually take photos in any clothing that isn’t a must-keep. Pictures make it obvious if something doesn’t fit well or looks worn out. I agree that fitting a year-round wardrobe in one closet is too hard if your work and personal clothes don’t overlap. My only friends who can pull it off wear scrubs to work.
Put together a tight palette and assemble a working wardrobe with your existing pieces in that palette. Box up the rest and put it in your condo storage closet. When you discover a gap, start with your boxed pieces. We are paying massive tariffs and you don’t want to have to rebuy a bunch of things at the higher prices.
Capsule wardrobes while you get settled. Purge the easy things now, but if you can afford it, store the things you are on the fence about. In 3-6-9-12 months, pull them out and see what you can purge then. You’re basically using storage as a hedge against having to re-buy things you already own and love.
Ruthlessness in what you like and de-dupe, keeping only your favorite of a category. Try everything in, get rid of anything that doesn’t fit perfectly.
Weed out anything you don’t like, don’t feel fabulous wearing, and that doesn’t fit either your body or your lifestyle.
Look at the storage structure itself: is the closet optimized with shelving and hanging space that works or is there a lot of white space? Can you add storage furniture (like a shoe shelf by the door, hooks or a hanging rod in a hallway nook for blazers and puffers, bins under the bed for out of season items)?
Really consider duplicates: do you truly need 4 pair of navy trousers, 5 black blazers, and ballet flats in every color?
what would you pick if you were packing for a two week trip in each season? That will help you figure out what you think is nicest, most flattering, most versatile, etc.
This is a brilliant suggestion.
You know the size of your new wardrobe. Use one of your existing closets to help, empty it and mark how much space you will have, same for drawers. This is your limit for how much clothes you can have daily access to, but since it’s a four season climate, will you have a seasonal or two-seasonal changeout? How many seasons will need to be in your daily closet?
In your emptied out space, you then put your favorites. The clothes that are always in the rotation because you love them, the sentimental dress, whatever reason. When the space is full, what’s left is not your favorites. Those are the ones you get rid of, and if you find a favorite among them, one in one out from your other favorites.
If you will be switching between seasons, you can do the same for the next season. The key is packing your favorites instead of culling, since you have to get rid of a lot for it to fit in your new home.
If you have time, you can even test your choices by living out of the favorites closet for a few weeks, and see if you have chosen well.
I have been a law firm partner for five years. I feel … blah. No motivation, slog daily, annoyed/frustrated/resentful. Not sure if I am burned out but I definitely do not love life right now. This year (I am in the USA) has also been really tough. Is this a normal career progression? Is a reliable way out of this feeling just wait it out?
can you identify the pieces that are bumming you out? like is it the people you work with or the subject matter? are you sure it’s work and not life in general? i am a very happy lawyer who hasn’t worked at a firm since i paralegaled before law school but i can say that most lawyers (not all!) i know hate working at firms.
One of the things that gave me a bit of “ennui” (LOL) this year was feeling like I wasn’t sure what else I was stiving for. Early career in a law firm is filled with so much learning, growing, new things, career advancement, etc etc…and then you make partner and I think there’s a bit of “okay, what next?” I spent time thinking about that this year, and picked new goals to focus on. That has helped me.
Mine were kind of a combination personal/career – I’m a practice group chair (mid size firm), and am working on pushing work down the chain to other attorneys to make space for me to develop more business and have a more flexible schedule for kid-related things. So kind of a work smarter/business growth thing. I LOVE firm life and have no interest in leaving for something else, so wanted to share this perspective in case firm life is for you, but you’re just kind of struggling with having new/exciting things to work towards.
I guess I would also mention that when hard things happen in the world, even if we aren’t personally or intimately affected, it can impact our mindset, and make working hard. I struggled massively with this in 2020 during the wake of the George Floyd murder. The best advice I can give you in that regard is to remove yourself and protect your mental health. There was a discussion a few weeks ago about that on here. To tie these ideas together – it’s challenging to think about personal goals and career happiness when you are focused on how the world is burning. Perhaps consider whether you have a good balance of news consumption right now?
Also a law firm partner. I am in my 9th year of partnership which is hard for me to process because I still often feel like a baby lawyer. The push to become a partner is full of a steep learning curve and annual milestones. Then you become a partner and the learning curve flattens and the milestones become fewer and farther between. It is easier, in some ways, but it is also less exciting. For me, I got more involved in firm/office/practice group management and leadership, which I enjoy and helps me stretch some new muscles. Some people get involved in bar associations or leadership; others take on nonprofit board responsibilities. I also got more involved in our local politics. I think as an associate, your job is SO MUCH of your life and as a partner, your job is still a huge thing but it’s also just work. You have to find your inspiration/motivation/meaning in other places as well.
I don’t know but commiseration. I am a senior associate about to make partner any day now yet I’ve been applying for in house roles because I am just over it all.
Time to do an updated business plan if you didn’t prepare one before. Set goals for yourself and list what you need to achieve them, and then figure out if you want to make this happen. For me, bringing in new business gave me more control over my schedule and the ability to say no to anything other than my fair share of admin.
Anyone else listening to Showgirl today?
I listened to it twice through this morning and it’s…fine? I have more thoughts that I’ll share with my friends, but I don’t think it’s in my top five of her albums.
No. I don’t listen to albums in full and was never a major TS fan. Hope you’re enjoying it though.
I love listening to full albums!
Yes! I’ve listened one time through already. I wasn’t prepared to hear so many ode’s to Travis Kelce’s anatomy on my morning walk, ha. But overall I like it!
I am loving how all the high brow reviews are skirting around this.
Trying to! I’m a Gen X fan bc my kids got me into it. From what I’ve heard I like it better than the last couple that have that Jack Antonoff sound.
I agree- the Jack Antonoff albums felt more like background noise. This new one is more fun.
Listened in the car with my kids on the way to school and made it fun and exciting for them so they can chat about it with their friends. I liked some of the songs, but didn’t have enough time to listen to everything and get a full Opinion yet. I’m not a massive fan, but I do feel very happy for her and all of her career and personal success.
Right now! Love her.
On repeat, all weekend. Love it so much.
My girls and I got up early and listened together this AM – really special. I thought the album was medium. Fine but not too exciting. I think she needs a longer album making process with more editing of songs. I love Opalite though.
That’s so lovely
on repeat. I love it. my friends have a running group thread with favorite lyrics.
I haven’t had time yet but I’m soooo excited!
Yes!! Was so excited to listen during school drop offs. Have also read some of the articles interpreting the songs. Will have more thoughts after I listen a couple more times through but I am loving new music from her!
Any particular articles you suggest to catch up on the backstories?
I’m trying to listen to the whole thing, but I can’t stop replaying The Fate of Ophelia – such a bop!
I’m so glad she’s finally ditched Jack Antonoff and gone back to Max Martin!
Any Emory and Henry alumnae here? We are thinking of touring soon. Advice? Things to see while there? I get that it is super-small but it’s on the Colleges that Change Lives list.
I don’t know much about the school, but I have visited. It is very small and in a rural, remote corner of Southwest Virginia. I would expect the area to be pretty Trumpy, if that matters to you.
I have spent some time in that area. It’s gorgeous but I could never live there.
Hope any of those who observe had a safe and meaningful fast. Yesterday’s attack in England definitely left our community feeling shaken, even though we’re nowhere close.
It’s terrible. We were on the fence about Temple membership as an interfaith family, but made the decision to become members after seeing yesterday’s news, if only because they need more paying members to pay for increased security. I hate that this is the world we live in.
It’s such a shame that so much money has to be spent on security bc there is so much other stuff that money could be spent on
It’s so terrible.
If a kid refinances private student loans that a parent co-signed (like through Naviance), that released the parent from those loans, yes? Loans solely in the parent’s name remain outstanding as the parent’s debt though, I think.
Yes. Navient required me to make a certain amount of on-time payments (2 years, I think?) before I was able to remove my mom as co-signer. Once I did, I was solely responsible and it was removed from her credit report.
We’re having a girl! Puppy that is. Hit me with your best name ideas.
Breed?
Doodle but I like human names so on the less relevant side.
Poppy
I love names related to places that are special to you. We picked Rosalita for our labradoodle as it’s the name of my husband’s favorite Bruce Springsteen song and a nice nod to New Jersey (where my husband is from, but now we live far from there). We also considered the name of the dorm we met in our sophomore year of college.
I always like nature-themed names for dogs: Fern, Rosie, Sage, Holly, Ivy, Sunnie, Amber, Clove, Laurel, Hazel, etc
Best advice I got was pick a name that two syllables and easy to bark out at 2am when they find a squirrel after tricking you into letting them outside.
I think it’s always fun to name pets really traditional names. I have a dog named Herbert now. And people always chuckle a bit when they find out his name.
If I had a girl golden-doodle, I’d probably name her after my great-grandmother and name her Gladys and call her Glady. It might be fun to think back a couple of generations in your family tree and see if there are any names you like.
I had a cat named Dave and that always made people chuckle.
I like old-fashioned names for dogs. So Ethel, Gladys, Phyllis, Donna, Eunice, Gertrude, Edna, Beverly.
Seems we are all on the same page. I’ll add Susie, Shirley, Ruby.
Me too! Our pets recently have been named after royalty (major or minor, from wherever) and there are a lot of good historical names on that list.
I feel like preppy names fit doodles, so:
– Pippa
– Margaret/Maggie/Peggy
– Sadie
– Audrey
– Frances
– Laurel
– Pearl
Milly! (That was my mom’s name.)
Coco, short for something long and preposterous. But Coco is easy to yell and can be dressed up or down.
If I had gotten a girl, her name would have been Ivy. A fiend’s dog is Stella, and another neighbour’s is Rosie.
Looking for suggestions on where I can get good quality, reasonably priced 100% silk women’s pyjamas.
I hope someone has an answer to this because i want some too!
lunya but a bit pricey. i have some Grana silk bottoms that have held up a lot better than the silk ones I got from Nordstrom’s house brand — but it looks like Grana’s website is having problems?
i’d also look at lilysilk – but again pricey.
following with interest, i love silk. i see that quince has some, those may be going on my xmas list.
I received the Lunya shorts and racerback as a gift and must say the packaging was for more impressive (and stupid excessive to me!) than the PJs. They are just meh.
Why do you love silk? I’m asking because getting flannel pajamas for winter was lifechanging and I’m wondering what else I’m missing.
I wondered this too. At first, silk pajamas sounded wonderful, but then I wondered how on earth do you frequently launder them and maintain their luxury?
I have an in-person interview coming up and realized that I haven’t had any in-person interviews in quite some time. This is for a generic corporate management position in the northeast. We’re still wearing suits, right?
Blazers and slacks or a dress are also fine in my opinion (HR leader; corporate in Midwest)
Yes, though I will admit I wore suit separates to my interviews over the summer for a household name type investment bank. Senior position. I was hired. I don’t think you can ever go wrong in a suit, but at an absolute minimum you need a polished outfit with a blazer.
This isn’t a tech company or startup, right?
Yep, but with interesting twists like a great blouse, flats, less corporate from the 00s.
you can, but I think the more senior you are, the more likely something like a column of color with a non-matching jacket.
This is what I wore for recent mid-senior in-house interviews – a simple navy knee length dress, no tights (it was 80 degrees!), and a complimentary non-matching flats.
This is my approach.
Suits are safe if a little old-school. In my corporate finance office polished separates are fine these days, too. (Before covid we were a very formal, full suit only office.)
There’s a chance my insurance company won’t cover my GLP1 (Wegovy) after December 31. I’ve been on it for almost two years and I’m down 80 lbs. I had planned to be on this for life. I’m a textbook patient for the medication… insulin resistant, PCOS, could never lose weight short of low key disordered eating or exercising (or both), all the things. I’m just now to my goal weight and was going to talk to my doc at my next appt in November about moving to maintenance and coming down a dose. It has changed my life. I’ve been very fortunate to have it covered to date, but I need to figure out a plan b in case it gets pulled from me.
So… what are people doing who are not covered to alleviate cost? Is this where compounding pharmacies come in to play? I’m assuming FSA/HSA can help pay for the Rx. I will take all the tips and tricks. It’s not certain they’ll pull the coverage but I just need to anticipate and plan now so I’m not freaking out come Jan 1.
Can you switch to Zepbound? You can order vials straight from Lilydirect. It’s still expensive, but less expensive than the pharmacy.
I would find other places in my budget to cut back or other side hustles to pick up if there really isn’t room in your budget to absorb this cost. Maybe cut out a big family vacation or eliminate your cleaning service so that you can keep this thing that is important to you.
Check the website of the maker of Wegovy (I think Novonordisk) and they oftentimes have cash deals if it’s not covered by insurance. I do this through Eli Lily for Zepbound and just get the vials and pay cash for them ($500/month, I think Wegovy should be cheaper). There are also a ton of semaglutide compounders out there. My insurance stopped covering Zepbound and I did a few months of the compounded tirzepatide and then decided it was worth a little extra money to just get it straight through brand name since the compounded version was a lower dose and less effective for me. I hit my goal weight back in 2023 and still am on the highest dose of Zepbound – anytime I’ve tried to go to a lower dose the weight crept back up a bit or I was hungry all of the time, so my body just seems to need the full dose, even in maintenance, and I’ve just accepted I’m going to have to pay out of pocket unless the price drops more or my insurance starts to cover it.
my insurance has never covered GLP1s and i’ve been paying out of pocket, and now it’s going to be a big stretch in the budget. i’m already buying zepbound from the manufacturer and i will say that when they send you 4 vials (HUGE waste of packaging) i can usually get 6 doses out of it. also once you’re on maintenance you can spread it out to one dose every 2-3 weeks — i think it’s different for everyone. when i went off wegovy before (stomach trouble) i was off it for 6 weeks before the hunger noise came ROARING back so i think 3 weeks is fine now. weigh yourself every day, correct course if needed in dose or schedule.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Did your doctor work with you to figure this out, or did you do it all on your own?
Sometimes it is easier to get the insurance company to make an exception when it’s a drug you’ve already been taking and that is working and that you’re stable on. It’s not always in their interest to yank you off a med and have you start costing them more money elsewise. And it looks bad. There are usually continuation of therapy forms that can be submitted even if a drug is off formulary. So it can be worth fighting even if they make it sound like a done deal, but it’s probably in the details of the change they’re making and whether formulary exceptions will be considered, or whether the change will involve certain indications more than others, etc.
Now this may be a special case since insurers may be betting on it that people will self-pay and then they’ll get the lower costs of a member on treatment without having to pay for it themselves. (This happens sometimes with meds that are dramatically effective, since they know patients will sacrifice and pay to stay on them!)
Your first paragraph is my last hope if this becomes an uncovered medication. I had all the joint issues, had hip MRIs, PT, ortho consults and whatnot when I was overweight. Now? Just one shot per week and I’m healthy as could be in all other areas. I didn’t even get my annual bout of bronchitis this winter. All blood levels are perfection. Like… I want to be studied! I’m the perfect test case for this medicine. I just feel like the abuse has ruined it for people like me and I’m so very, very salty, downright deeply upset about it.
Thanks, all. I have a little time and will work with my doctor to figure this out. The possible upshot is that I just started this week at a company that allegedly has some of the best benefits around. I haven’t even cracked open the benefits guide yet but will hopefully find some good news in there. (No, I didn’t look at this carefully before hand because we’re on DH’s (arguably decent) insurance and they’re the ones that just told us it may be dropped. Sigh.)
Why won’t they cover it after 12/31? On my plan if you met the criteria for coverage (40+ BMI), even if you lose the weight and no longer meet the criteria, they will continue to cover it since you were once at the criteria. so it’s not like they stop covering it because you dropped below 40 BMI since that is the point of the meds.
Otherwise I would find the least expensive place to get it and make room in the budget for this. It is probably going to cost you less than if you joined a fancy gym but with better results for you. Look at it as self-care.
An insurance company can always change their criteria or change what they will/wont cover. They don’t really have to give a reason
BCBS in my state is stopping coverage of all GLP-1s unless you have diabetes in Jan. They claim too many people take these expensive drugs. So their answer is…let people develop T2 diabetes before covering it?
We are BCBS MA. I think that’s what’s happening but the vague message I got wasn’t totally clear.
This happened to me when my company switched insurance. We were told at the time of the change that they would be covered but because I had lost weight (and accordingly no longer had the issues that made me eligible in the first place) the new carrier would not approve it. I get mine at Costco for $499 for four doses, take them every 10 days, and use my HSA to pay. It is still a huge expense, and I cut out a few other things but worth it for me.
Doctors REALLY need to push back on this new insurer trend. “Your TSH levels are fine on your high dose thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid meds are only for people whose TSH is out of range, which yours hasn’t been for years, so you don’t meet criteria.” This is how ridiculous this is.
I agree that this needs pushback, but the answer isn’t to place the burden on doctors who are already spending a ton of time fighting insurance and don’t have much leverage. Constituents need to tell the their elected officials regulation of insurance is important to them, both through reaching out and through electing candidates who are committed to fixing this.
There are almost no candidates who aren’t already sell outs to insurance companies. Just look at the ACA.
I’m no fan of insurance companies, but this is one where really everyone as a society needs to push back on the drugmaker. The cost is just too high, even when you account for savings from health improvements. If you cover it for everyone with medical need, you end up with *significant* raised premiums across the board. It’s not sustainable.
I’m desperate for lower drug prices. Some of the most life changing drugs are being offered only at proportionately extortionate prices right now.
And $$$-$$$$/mo is rough, but my household has a $$,$$$/mo and a $$$,$$$/mo. Without insurance coverage, there is just no way, and it’s a never ending battle.
I know that the R&D that went into one of these drugs was dwarfed by its profits ages ago, and for the other, it was mostly paid for by taxpayers and charities, not the company that brought it to market. Bringing a drug to market is an investment too, but come on.
But so long as insurance companies have the option to deny and exclude (or negotiate weird back room deals), they’re not really the part of society that is pushing back.
Thank you for this tip. I could definitely fit this in to the budget and spreading over 10 days is a good idea.
Small plug here for Mobile Care LLC. They are a concierge medicine practice out of Denver. I have gotten compounded zepbound from them for several years. They run specials from time to time, so their rack rates are not what you will pay. You can still have your doctor run the tests they need to prescribe meds. They can prescribe to many states (I am not in CO). My friends owns several compounding pharmacies and said the facility they use is very legit. I had real results on their compounded tirzepatide and highly recommend them. I see Brooke the Nurse Practitioner and she did a very, very thorough virtual consult (it was truly an hour, quite in-depth) before prescribing.
Good luck.
Thank you! I’ve had some questionable experiences with compounding pharmacies (other drugs) over the years, but I know some are good, so recommendations really help. (Same for veterinary; I have so many concerns about Wedgewood veterinary, but a very good experience with Roadrunner veterinary.)
Just heard Costco will be offering it for $499/month. It’s still a lot but less than paying full price out of pocket.
Is there a reason that La Canadienne boots would be more expensive at Nordstrom than, say, Macy’s? I was looking for a new pair of weatherproof knee-high boots and noticed that all the ones at Nordstrom’s are $500-600ish, with one or two on sale for around $400, but Macy’s has (different) styles for under $400 at full price. Are these differently made? For example, the Nordstrom ones I was looking at say “made in Italy” whereas Macy’s just says “imported” – happy to pay for better quality for this item, but curious if anyone know the reason for this discrepancy as it doesn’t seem to just be a diffusion line.
Are the Macy’s ones prior season styles?
This, also try messaging Nordstrom, they often price adjust if it’s the same thing.
I know this happens with other brands so wouldn’t be surprised if it happens here… try messaging Nordstrom if the item # looks like the identical style?
reading comprehension fail, sorry. I would buy from Nordstrom.
Apparently, one of the differences is in the City Dry technology: the lower-end boots don’t have it.
Could it be that one store received the shipment pre-tariff and one after?
This is how the Macy’s page is set up. If you have a look at other items on the Macy’s page, you’ll see that “imported” is their standard description for items that are not made in USA or made in USA from imported materials, they do not tell you imported from which country.
Are they the exact same style / name? They often have boots that look very similar but are actually a different model, so be sure to check the fine print.
Nordstrom almost always has the highest price, so this wouldn’t phase me in the least. I almost never buy from them anymore.
But wait if you can until next month’s black friday sales. You will get a great deal then.
Any book suggestions for cute fall romance type books? I love to decompress this way lol.
Sarina Bowen’s books hit the spot for this.
I feel like I skipped this unit in adulting class, but – when you wash your bras, do you take the cups/pads out if they are removable?
Also if you take them out, how do you keep the pads organized so that it is easy to match back up to the bras after washing? I feel like I have a drawer full of bra pads because I can’t remember which bras they go with. Or maybe matching them back up doesn’t matter?
I don’t, but those s-ckers remove themselves anyway. I wash them in small lingerie bags so the pads stay with the bra.
My favorite bralette always comes out with the pads folded up, and I have to rummage around in the pocket to straighten them. Maybe one day I will stitch them into place, haha!
In this case I remove the pads and wash them separately. I find that they are easier to completely replace than to unfold, and they get less creased this way.
I use a bra bag (my pads are not removable) but based on how sturdily the bra bag keeps the bras, I’d assume the pads would stay in well. I have sewn in my sport bra pads because the pads movements from simply using them drove me nuts.
I don’t because I figure they absorb some sweat and need to be cleaned? Idk.
Do you handwash your bras? Just leave them in.
Wait, I feel like I skipped something in adulting as I am nearing 50 and have never in my life had a bra with any removable parts, or even seen one. Is this because I am busty?
It’s generally sports bras that have removable pads. I hate them. Without the pads too much shows through, but the pads wrinkle and bunch and look terrible.
Probably. I am busty but bought a few wireless bras to wear during the pandemic. They do not make my bust look its best, but they are comfy.
Bras with little in the way of structure or support often have the removable pads. I honestly don’t know why they are removable – it seems like women either want them in all the time or don’t want them at all, so having them loose and fall out in the laundry (seconding the lingerie bag ideas doesn’t make much sense to me.
I had some nursing bras with stitched in pads and they were the woooorst. I bought the right size, but because they were designed to fit a range of cup sizes, the pads would end mid-nipple. The bras were basically unwearable. You need to be able to reposition the pads.
The whole cup should be padded or lined so shifting is impossible and repositioning is neither necessary nor possible.
Removable pads means you have a choice whether to use them or not, it’s helpful for people with different sized breasts to keep one in one not, and the pockets can be used for inserts after a masectomy.
Absolutely a faff, though.
Haha, me neither. I am large enough in that area, I deliberately avoid bras with additional padding.
I have a set of mesh laundry bags / containers that I’ll group ~2 bras in each. The shape of these usually keeps the pad in, but if they do fall out they’re clustered together so reassembly after hang drying is easy.
Sold under 3Pcs Durable Honeycomb Mesh Laundry Bags for Delicates, Lingerie Wash Bag 7 x 7 x 6 Inches on Amazon.
Are they the exact same style / name? They often have boots that look very similar but are actually a different model, so be sure to check the fine print.
Nordstrom almost always has the highest price, so this wouldn’t phase me in the least. I almost never buy from them anymore.
But wait if you can until next month’s black friday sales. You will get a great deal then.
I always take the removable pads out. I only have removable pads in my sports bras. Almost all of my sports bras are from the same line and the pads are essentially identical, so while I keep the two pads from a set together, I don’t care which pads go back into which bra.
I wash the pads less often, hand wash those. I have a ton of delicates bags.
I am looking to replaced an aged pair of knee high riding boots with a flat 1/2” sole for narrow calves. These are 10+ years old. Does this exist in 2025? Prefer black suede to leather.
Aquatalia fits my narrow calves.
Didn’t their company close?
DuoBoots are not inexpensive but will fit well and last for years. They also have wide calf options.
I have the worlds skinniest calves and blondo fits me well. Highly recommend their waterproof boots. I used to live in Boston and literally walk miles in them everyday, all winter, from Beacon Hill to downtown. They are very high quality.
Related to the discussion a few days ago re: timing one’s departure to not miss out on a bonus: the company that just gave me a verbal offer (yay!) pays a bonus in two semiannual portions. I’ve never worked anywhere with a bonus before, so I don’t know if that is typical. But it seems like that way you can slightly reduce the likelihood of employees quitting at a maximally inconvenient time.
Congrats on the offer!
The employer’s downside is that if bonuses are all paid at once, and they usually are, all the employees just holding out for the bonus will leave all at once. Kind of a double-edged sword.
DH and his siblings are very close. DH’s sister’s first born (my niece) is the oldest of their generation. When my niece graduated from high school, DH insisted that our family of 5 must attend the graduation ceremony (held at the high school football field, 600 kids and their families) and stay for an “open house” type party over the weekend.
We live a 2-hour flight away and while I was fine with that, I did not like the fact that my older high school age kids were out going to multiple graduation parties over the weekend with my niece when they were stressed about finals week (our high school ends a week later than my niece’s high school).
Now, my twin daughters and my nephew are graduating this year, so I think DH is going to insist that they show up here and we go there and I think this will mean that my daughters will have to miss out on some of their friends’ parties because they will be at their cousin’s house that weekend (the two graduations are during the same week and the parties are usually on the weekends before and afterwards).
Just asking the group – do you go to out of state graduations for your family members? My extended family is not close so I don’t know what’s typical.
I think this is very individual, and also depends on a lot of other factors. My extended family didn’t attend each other’s graduations, but there was a different milestone event (similar to confirmation), where everyone made an effort for each of my many cousins to be present and celebrate them. In hindsight I treasure these memories a lot and feel like it was worth whatever logistics or tradeoffs my parents had to make, even though it basically blocked out weekends in Spring for a number of years.
I also remember my great aunt talking with immense pride about how many of my age group were graduating high school, which opened my eyes to how I was taking that fact for granted and she wasn’t.
Far flung family here. Graduations (at any level from K to grad school) are immediate family and grandparents max, with grandparents most likely attending HS, college, grad school. Everyone else sends a check, basically.
For weddings and funerals the whole family tries to attend but in your case, the blood relation might go by themselves. I know that approach is not standard across families but works for us.
No, I do not go to out of state events like this and would not take my own kids out of school to attend a routine family event. I definitely would not haul HS kids with exams to something like this. Can your DH go on his own?
Caveat: I did not go to my own graduation events. I celebrated being done by being gone.
Your kids ew old enough that I would give them a say. Do they wanna go to their cousins graduation party or would they rather stay home and go to their friends? I don’t think it’s normal to drag high school aged kids out of state for a graduation party.
And honestly, don’t know any high schools that allow their graduates to have more than 4 to 6 tickets each for the graduation ceremony. i’m basically shocked that you’re able to attend the ceremony itself.
For a truly close family, I don’t think this is out of the ordinary. But you have to be honest about that, because if the cousins aren’t close then I wouldn’t make everyone get on a plane.
I have two sisters and our kids are like siblings. We don’t live super close, but make it a point to see them as frequently as possible and we take a big summer vacation together every year. I fully see them attending graduation celebrations for each other, but of course if there’s an important reason not to then we wouldn’t be “offended” (finals might qualify; a friend’s party probably wouldn’t). That’s another key to see if people are actually close, IMO – you understand each other’s busy lives and give a lot of grace because you know the love is there even if you can’t show up. Families who have a more surface-level relationship may put a lot of stock in physically being there out of obligation. But those are just my observations from my family and DH’s.
In our family, the grandparents go to out-of-state graduations. Aunts and uncles who are empty nesters will sometimes attend if the scheduling works out, more as a convenient reason to visit siblings than because the graduation itself is that important. Aunts and uncles with kids still in school do not attend. We are the youngest in our generation. We did not attend any of our nieces’ and nephews’ graduations, but we were pleasantly surprised that some of our siblings timed visits to their own parents or adult kids (local to us) to coincide with our daughter’s graduation.
I certainly would not make my kids miss out on their friends’ parties, or insist that their cousin do the same. The blood relative aunt or uncle should go to these graduations alone,
I think it’s unusual for cousins to travel for high school graduations, but kind of irrelevant *because* it’s usual in your family.
Two other factors – your kids and their cousins are close in age, in a close family – that’s a really beautiful thing to have, and is a relationship I would at least encourage them to invest in by showing up
and B) Will your graduating twins be 18 at graduation? If there ends up being a conflict with their BFF grad party weekend & their cousins, could they fly on their own? and example attend the friend party Saturday, and still fly out for cousins party; while you & DH go for the whole weekend?
This is where I fall too. I would also ask your kids if they want to go.
Yes, the twins will be 18 by then and they can fly on their own. It didn’t occur to me that we could just have them go back – that does sound like a good option. Thank you for suggesting it!
My extended family is not close but travels (by airplane) for wedding, bar mitzvahs and funerals. We don’t normally go to graduations though. College graduations have such limited space – I could only get 4 tickets which were used by my parents and two living grandparents – and high school graduations aren’t really seen as a big deal in my family because everyone goes to college and most people go to grad/law/med school.
I don’t think it’s crazy to want to travel for an immediate niece or nephew’s HS graduation though. It’s not like it’s a third cousin once removed sort of very tenuous connection.
Everyone is going off to college – it’s just an expectation in this family that everyone go to everyone’s high school, college, and any grad school graduations. So, they have photos where my DC is at his cousin’s graduation, along with siblings, parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents. More common than wedding photos since some are unmarried but have graduate degrees!
I don’t go out of state for graduations, but if it matters to him, could you do it in a single day since it’s only a 2 hour flight instead of going for the full weekend?
DH can’t insist on anything when there are 4 other people who get to have input. Ask your kids what they want and then talk to DH to voice your concerns.
I think this would be my preference as well, but when my niece graduated, her graduation ceremony was Friday night and the family party held at their house was on Saturday night, and there aren’t a lot of flights out late at night, so we left on Sunday.
I agree with everyone who says that your kids should decide for themselves if they want to attend and your husband can go on his own if they want to stay home, which would be pretty understandable. I have really great memories of attending my older cousin’s graduation parties, which were out of state, but within driving distance. But I was much younger than them, and by the time the cousin that was only a year older than me graduated, I don’t remember anyone in my family attending, and I know I didn’t because I would have been busy with my own exams and going to my own friend’s parties. My aunt (their mom) and grandma did come to my party (not the ceremony), but the cousins were all in college or adults scattered around the country by the time my siblings and I graduated, so I don’t think any of them made it to any of our parties.
In my family we attend graduations if possible. My daughter’s high school had limited tickets for an indoor event, so only parents and grandparents attended but most of my family flew across the country for her college graduation (my SIL stayed home with their youngest son who was only 3). My niece and nephew had large outdoor events, and I flew across the country for them. We mostly view them as an excuse to get together since my siblings and I live in multiple cities and states and do not get to see each other as often as we would like.
What would give me pause in your case is multiple events at the same time. You can certainly prioritize your own children’s graduations but second the recommendations you ask them.
We do for high school graduations, but I’m very, very close with my sisters and my family is the only one that lives far away. Obviously, every family has different expectations.
My kids are in the same school district as their cousins, and we aren’t even going to their HS grads. Most of the local kids seem to have parties over the summer, and we did go the most recent graduate’s party at least.
I think your husband is being unreasonable, but he can go to the party and leave the rest of you at home the weekend before. Or if there’s a more meaningful time to visit outside of the ceremony, go then.
what matters is your family’s norms, but I think your kids should have a say. DH can go on his own if needed; I DID go to most of my cousin’s grad parties (similar distance) but we were different years and I would’ve been so upset to miss multiple friends’ parties because of it.
I think you need to let go of being annoyed your kids went out having fun with their cousins. Those are wonderful memories. They’re graduating so clearly it turned out okay!
It’s over 30 years later and, when I remember, I’m still upset my parents made me miss all the grad parties when we had a similar scenario. Let your kids stay home and go to the parties. You can have a joint family celebration later.
I approach this as I do for all death-related events. Who is this lunch for? Whose feelings are going to be hurt? Yours? Your parents? Her parents? Other cousins?
Funerals are for the living but TBH, is anyone going to be actually upset if she’s not there if she doesn’t want to be? I’d give it a cursory shot: “I’m so sorry you can’t make it. Is there anything I can do to help the situation? I’m happy to grab new clothes- or stain my kids’ in solidarity- or even just hang back with your kids a bit to give you some time to rest. If not, totally understand.”
I think she’d struggle not to scream at you to please leave her alone.
I agree. I have a very well-meaning friend who does this kind of thing, and it makes me nuts. When I’ve said no, it’s a no. I’m not asking you to solve my problems! (And no, I would not flake on a family event like this.)
I think this is a kind offer. You’re leaving her plenty of room to simply decline. I get that maybe she really just doesn’t want to go & maybe this will feel like pressure – but I’d rather err a little on the side of offering parents extra help they didn’t want offered; than risk not offering help they really wanted.
Like if a friend turns down a hangout because they can’t get a babysitter, I want to make a casual offer to meet up at the park earlier in the evening & bring snacks or something that might work; not just default to assuming “no thanks, because kid” always means “no thanks, full stop.” I’m not going to read much into it or be offended if they turn down the kid-friendly offer too; but I think it’s worth the risk to at least make clear “hey, being a parent is hard & can I make this easier for you?”
For those who have half-siblings or step-siblings, how much time do you spend with them as adults? Did it change after your parents passed away?
I have two half siblings and one full sibling. My half sister lives on the other side of the country and I have literally seen her only once in 50 years, although we are casual Facebook friends. I see my half brother (who lives a two hour drive away) maybe quarterly and we have a good relationship. I am estranged from my full brother and don’t care if I ever see him again now that my parents are gone.
We spent summer breaks together as kids at my dad’s insistence; absolutely no contact once he died bc omg do the women all hate each other like a bad soap opera. Haven’t had contact with any of them since 1986. I’ve never even met the one born after my dad died. It bothered me as a lonely only child growing up; I never even think about them now as an adult.
I think my husband likes his step brother more than his real brother. He’s not super close to either of them and we live far away from both, but we seem to end up in the same place as the step brother slightly more often (every couple years for both of them).
I am working through this as my stepfather died last year. As adults, we haven’t spent a lot of time together. But we do check in, maintain social media contact, and exchange holiday gifts. I plan to do at as much going forward. And apparently my mother recently invited my stepsister on a trip, so is trying to maintain that relationship. If I found myself in the town where they live, I’d try hard to meet.
DH & I both have step siblings from a parent marrying when we were adults, so didn’t grow up with them. DH is close to 1 and I don’t think that would change when they pass. My step siblings? I don’t foresee us staying in touch at all after that happens.
We have stayed close with one set of steps. The other surprised us by totally bailing out on us.