Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Sweater Jacket
This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This poppy-red sweater jacket from T Tahari is available for a great price at Nordstrom Rack. This orangey-red hue would look equally beautiful layered over the white linen sheath I wear once per summer or paired with navy trousers in the fall.
If you’re looking for the coordinating shell, it’s available for less than $20.
The sweater is $29.97 at Nordstrom Rack and comes in sizes XS-XL.
Sales of note for 8/1/25 (Happy August!):
- Nordstrom – The Anniversary Sale is open for everyone — here's our roundup! (ends 8/3)
- Ann Taylor – 50% off wear-now styles + $50 off dresses and shoes + extra 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – Up to 60% off plus extra 10% off sale — final reductions
- Eloquii – $19+ select styles + extra 45% off all sale
- Evereve – Sale on sale (thru Sunday)
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off summer styles + extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew Factory – 60% off everything and extra 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – 25% off all previous flash sale items! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Rothy's – Final Few: up to 50% off
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – 40% off one item + 25% off your entire purchase + extra 50% markdowns on top of that
PSA if a woman in your life is confiding in you about the cr@ppy things their partner does but you find yourself thinking “but he’s such a great guy” please be aware that this type of man is a master manipulator and part of keeping their victims trapped is by being charming externally and only being awful in private, I makes it much harder to be believed and leave.
Hear hear. I’m always wary of any man who seems too charming. It’s a protective mechanism I don’t even consciously cultivate. The Gift of Fear is a helpful read on this.
Yeah I react really badly to what I perceive as “smarminess”
Same!
So true. I used to be married to a man who was pleasant and helpful Mr. Personable in public and a hypercritical ranting layabout at home when no one else was watching.
Mom? (I’m so glad you divorced him.)
100 percent. I saw it happen to my sister. People couldn’t believe she divorced Mr. Nice Guy. Spoiler alert: He might’ve been nice, but he was immature, unkind and manipulative to boot.
Often the worse one of these guy’s behavior is at home, the more carefully they cultivate support in their broader community. They know that they’re risking having to face consequences for their actions someday, and they want many communities allies if that day ever arises. Unfortunately this often works really well!
It does, sadly.
It’s important to recognize how deliberate it is. Studies have repeatedly shown that abusers commit abuse because they like the advantages it brings. It’s not just losing control or being unconsciously harsh. Some of the motivating factors that often get named are enjoying controlling the finances, enjoying ensuring wives don’t see other men, ensuring she’ll offer sex to smooth over tension, and more.
Why does he do that is such a good book.
I feel like this is in response to what I wrote yesterday, so I just want to be clear that I never said my friend’s husband was a good guy – I said that I like him, which I do, but I definitely recognize he’s wrong here and I never said otherwise. (I’ve privately told my husband for years that I thought he was a much better husband than this guy.) I do question a few of the details that she’s told me for various reasons (but I don’t think it’s worth questioning them or trying to judge the actual truth), but even if she’s exaggerating, he’s still clearly on the wrong side. (Neutral about whether it’s in “she should leave” territory or not, and I plan to stay that way absent some new revelation.) I only wrote for some suggestions of what to say.
Sigh, this is the place for black and white thinking only.
(Inhale exhale)
Why do you think she’s exaggerating?
I just ask because people said that about me until I hit them with the X-rays and MRIs from what my ex-husband did to me.
Just to be clear, this is not a situation where we’re talking about any sort of threat of violence. Obviously, I’d approach things differently if that were the case. I don’t want to go into the details about why I think there are some exaggerations, because they’re obviously very personal and because they’re not relevant – I don’t know everything and I’m not going to. I’m not looking to arbitrate their relationship; I’m looking for the best way to respond to my friend to show her support.
You asked for things to say, but also had a lot of judgment about whether she was exaggerating, and whether it was bad enough for her to leave.
I left a marraige where there was a lot of unfairness and in which I was deeply unhappy, and people said a lot of the same types of things. “I like him – it sounds like Anon is exaggerating.”
Those people are no longer in my life, and I regret confiding in at least one of them about it.
I’m the poster who has lost friends because they told me that they knew my marriage better than I did.
I would never presume to know what goes on behind closed doors.
Not the OP, but I had a friend who complained endlessly, about how her husband “never helps with the kids“ when I could see her husband doing school drop off, pick up, and taking them to all their practices and games. So while I am always ready to take allegations of abuse, whether physical or emotional, seriously, I have also experienced at least one woman whose complaints (as we later learned) were a cover or excuse for the fact that she was cheating on him.
But then I tend to assume that women are not inherently better or more trustworthy human beings than men, which is probably a reflection of the men in my own life.
Yeah but the MRIs corroborated my story so….
We believe you.
I have the same experiences with *some* women in my life who complain endlessly about their husbands when my own eyes tell me that it’s not the truth. At some point, I assume a person likes to complain. I also don’t assume women are ultimate truth-tellers and men are not.
😬
The one thing I know for absolute sure is that I don’t know anything about anybody else’s marriage behind closed doors.
+1
I see you have met my brother. He is great at parties, and even has some weekend/Disneyland dad moments (episodic hero or fun guy), but as to regular effort for the collective benefit, he is lacking. He has been this way for decades, and our parents enabled this by not asking enough of him.
Thanks for elevating this. I made that comment on yesterday’s thread about my sister and one of my besties having to get divorced from a “great guy” and many of their friends/families taking the “great guy” side.
Neither of these guys were great guys. My ex brother in law and his new wife/long-term affair partner have spent the last 10 (yes ten) years trying to make my sister’s life miserable because she had the AUDACITY not to take his abuse anymore. We are talking restraining orders and him finally getting disowned by his wealthy parents for his absolutely insane behaviors.
My husband thought he was a great guy, and occasionally says he misses my former BIL, before I remind him of who ex-BIL really is, which is not the “great guy” my husband met. It was all an act. Guys like this are absolutely masterful at the act.
If you are an executive or in a senior role, do you truly want to hear from your teams if things aren’t going well or does it help you save face to be surprised later?
I’m really not trying to be a flamethrower with the question. I’m a director, 1 layer between me and C suite. Things are bad at my company and in the industry. Underperformers are being let go through covert layoffs and high performers are quitting. My team has voiced concerns, some of which I share, but when the level above me or the C suite leader says they’re surprised by someone leaving or people aren’t sufficiently positive about the latest org change, and I’ve tried to say something privately I’m either told I’m not being a good leader or “why would people think that”.
For the most part, I think senior people don’t like to be surprised at work. In past companies leaders might admit issues in private or say their hands were tied, but were generally self aware. I’m wondering now, are these people truly lacking all self awareness or do I need to get better at cognitive dissonance if I want to move up?
Of course we want to know. You just may not be trusted enough to be read in with agreement for whatever reason at your company. Rarely are we actually surprised too, generally you know what’s going on but it’s quite helpful to hear it anyway.
If you don’t trust your line managers then either you have the wrong line managers or there is a problem with you and your organizational culture.
I am. It talking about myself, I am giving a likely explanation for OPs experience.
*not talking about myself
Is it “the widgets are held together with glue and not bolts”? In which case frame it as a fixer of the lurking headline (etc) risk. If it’s just a bunch of feelings, not much to do there. Underperformers getting let go is just how it is — being noisy that they aren’t keeping up would seem more unkind.
What? Of course I want to know. As I’ve told my team many times its much more helpful to know earlier when I may be able to do something about it than to have a giant mess later on.
I used to be in your position, and whenever anyone quit because of the toxic work environment that management had created it was framed as the result of a personality defect. Trying to explain what was really going on was futile because why would the people who caused the problem want to be told that they were the problem?
This is where I’m starting to fall. It’s weird bc I’ve been here for a few years and these same leaders used to have more self awareness but have become very insular with the industry and company pressures over the last year.
Yes low performers are always and should be let go, but don’t be shocked pikachu when you tell your high performers you’ll never promote them or reorg them to an area where they have no experience, then those people quit. I’m job searching too but no telling how long that will take in this market.
I feel like it’s a red flag when high performers go. And I feel like the facts don’t change — absent a geographic move, it’s always the same story as to why.
They already know what’s going on but don’t want to admit it.
Yep, this. OP, I’m in your position. Same story. They can’t admit how bad things are when high performers start jumping ship.
This is more my experience than the folks chiming in on “of course we want to know.” If they wanted to know, it would already have a fix in the works. Yes, they will want to know strategies or tactics that aren’t working (and expect solution options in the same convo), but they generally don’t want to know who is or isn’t happy on the team unless it’s someone directly tied to high impact (we’re about to lose our sales rep for the largest territory, that attorney with niche knowledge that is the whole reason we can say we offer X service line, etc.). And even then, I think a lot of places don’t see the value in trying to save someone with one foot out the door since long-term stick isn’t likely.
I’m sure there are people who don’t want to know, and OP’s leadership may well fall into that category. I’m just saying that as a person who does want to actually improve things, I want to know. I do agree that if someone has a foot out the door I’m not going to go crazy tryinng to keep them – its a free market, everyone looks for new jobs from time to time.
If you want to know you probably have already found out.
1000%. I am off in this person’s position, and I have spoken directly to power in the past, but it doesn’t matter if they don’t want to make the changes.
Been there. I tried to save a top team from leaving and was told I wasn’t correct about how unhappy they were. All you can do is try once and then bide your time. The next time around you will have credibility as not crying wolf.
I do absolutely. Seems like your bosses don’t though and like you should be looking to leave
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits all answer here. I’ve been at companies (as the corporate lawyer) where I very much know the company/industry is struggling, but leaders put on a brave, optimistic face for the company as a whole. They know.
I’ve also been at companies run by delusional narcissists who slag off anyone who doesn’t think everything is sunshine and roses at all times, and anyone who leaves “couldn’t hack it here.” At this type of place, it is always someone else’s fault.
What I think you’re describing probably falls somewhere in between. There are work cultures where being realistic or not-super-optimistic is not rewarded. But there are also better management teams who are more self-aware, and also trying to create better employment experiences too.
I’m glad you’re looking. Hopefully you can find a culture where management is in tune with where people are, and is not ostriching.
Is this a serious question? Negative surprises are the absolute worst. I would pick pretty much any type of problem over that
My husband and BIL did some drywall stuff while kids and I were gone visiting my parents – I returned yesterday and the entire first floor is covered with a layer of dust/silt/debris from drywall. Cleaning ladies are here today and they’ll do counters and floors, is there anything else I should do? Vent cleaning down the line?
If you have a shop vac, use it to get as much of the dust as you can. Drywall dust is no match for a regular vacuum and may lead to an early demise, speaking from experience.
This and get the Coway AP-1512HH air filter and run it at full blast, switching out the filter after a week. It is not aesthetic or the most quiet but can move A LOT of air, especially as you are stirring up the dust.
Yes– drywall killed our vacuum. We had an air purifier in our master (next to the drywall project), and that helped a lot. We changed air filters every few weeks.
Also, we had some house plants that also met early deaths from the reno– it may be too late to save them, but just a heads up.
When was your house built? If before 1980 or so, it’s very likely there could be asbestos in the drywall and you should proceed with caution.
Just a small correction the asbestos was typically in the mud not the drywall itself.
Why did they just leave you with the mess? Was doing the cleanup not part of doing the work? I don’t think I would do anything until husband brings up and starts doing the cleanup himself. I do not understand why so many women stay married to awful men. Yes it was good if your husband to do this project (assuming it needed to be done and not folly) but finishing it is the only way this is actually helpful.
So many assumptions and judgement in this comment.
No there’s nothing else you, the person who didn’t make the mess, should do.
It seems highly likely that the drywall work was not done just for fun, but was part of a home improvement project. Why would the entire project fall to the husband? And where does she say he is not helping clean?
Honestly. Some people are better at different things. I’m never going to touch drywall, but I’m happy to clean up the house, and as a whole, we’re both better off that the project is done.
That’s my role, too. I am terrible at drywall and mudding, and my contribution to the project will be cleanup.
Funny how it’s always women who are “better” at cleaning.
It sure isn’t in my house! My husband does almost all the cleaning.
Ok. How about cleaning is the only home improvement project I’m going to do so that’s what I do? I’ll mow the lawn if I have to.
I feel like everyone should work at McDonalds, just to get it drummed into your head to clean as you go.
There’s a lot you can’t clean as you go with drywall. The final step is sanding, which is what makes nearly all of the mess. It gets absolutely everywhere, and we found bits of dust far outside the sealed-off areas our (diligent, meticulous) drywallers did.
These criticisms from people who have clearly never done drywall are kind of hilarious.
Yep. Do the paid contractors people use for renovations go and dust and vacuum every room of your house? No. You can take steps to mitigate the dust, but with sanding it’s inevitable you will have dust outside the bounds of the project.
This color is everywhere this season, and I love it. Unfortunately, it is one of THE worst colors for my complexion, so I’m passing. Somebody, anybody buy this lovely jacket on my behalf!
Done. This is a great color for me, the fabric looks comfortable, and the price is right!
Same.
Land’s End has a longish belted cardigan/jacket that is less blazer shaped but in a similar knit.
I bought it in navy and beige (which is a cool beige) and I’m quite happy with it. The line is called fine gauge Milano, but it’s a substantial knit, not what I usually think of as fine gauge.
I’ve always loved Me + Em. If someone wants to pick out an outfit or item for me that I can wear to a biz casual finance office, that would be great:
— Winter complexion
— 5 foot 4
— 8 top / 10 bottom pear
I gained some weight and a size and I feel that there’s never be the right time; just now. Someone pls shop for me!
I like this dress a lot:
https://www.meandem.com/us/tweed-zip-front-midi-dress-perfect-pink
You’d wear this to work?
Why wouldn’t you?
Because I would be batting away comments about it ALL DAY LONG. I guess this is a know your office type of thing, but in a normal business casual office like mine, it would be an odd choice.
Yes — the black in it would pair well with my black jackets and shoes.
Question for today: do you change your underwear before going to bed at night? And if so, do you change it again in the morning?
I shower at night, sleep in boxers, and put on fresh underwear in the morning. I also have a (early pandemic lol) bidet.
I take a bath most nights and put on fresh panties when getting out and wear them all the next day. If I didn’t bathe the night before, I’ll put on clean ones in the morning.
Not usually. Unless I’ve showered or it’s not a really comfortable pair.
Nope. Sometimes I take it off and wear nothing but I only change it if there is a reason to
If I don’t shower no. Big sometimes I take them off & sleep without. Mostly I take a quick shower and change for that reason.
It took me forever to break the habit of hoarding quarters for laundry from college and thereafter, so I only launder dirty / sweaty items (so minimum 7 pairs a week, more if I work out or have some sort of mishap with pads, etc.). I have a washer/dryer now, but my formative years didn’t and having to stock up (or do laundry for) 14 changes a week vs 7 (or PRN). I see backpackers do one pair to wear and one to hang to dry on the back of the pack, so I don’t think I’m hard core with just daily/PRN changes at all.
I don’t sleep in underwear. It comes off as soon as I am done with activities for the day. I can’t imagine sleeping in underwear, waking up, and just putting clothes on top of the same pair. But people are different.
I cannot go commando without getting wedgies.
Nightgowns/sleep shirts/moo moos solved this problem for me.
I have given myself a wedgie in a hospital gown :(
Congrats on having great cheeks.
only if I need to shower before bed. if I don’t, I wasn’t active enough while using that pair to need to change them.
I never wear underwear to bed.
It’s 50/50 if I shower at night or in the morning (depending on when I work out, if I’m otherwise sweaty, did I have bug spray or sunscreen on) but never underwear to bed, always new underwear in the AM.
I don’t wear underwear to bed unless I have to because of my period. I grew up with a mother that subscribed to the philosophy of “you have to let that area get some air and breathe.” I also wear nightgowns because I don’t like shorts or pants riding up through the night. In the case of my period week, I do typically put on a new pair before going to bed and a new pair in the morning. I usually shower in the morning as a personal preference.
I don’t sleep in underwear, ever. Fresh pair in the AM. Fresh pair after my shower in the evening.
None at night.
Sleeping in underwear is bad for you
I think underwear that don’t breathe are bad for you whether you’re awake or asleep!
Yes, I generally wear thongs during the day so I change into a pair of cotton underwear to sleep in.
Interesting to see these responses. I usually shower at night and then put on a fresh pair and then next change them when I go to the gym or shower next.
This sort of explains people who wash pajamas every time they wear them or bring a LOT of pajamas on vacation – its def different if you’re not wearing underwear.
I would wear underwear if I had jammie shorts on. I never wear undies or jammies. Only a top or nightgown.
I love the idea of gowns, but I need shorts to be comfortable. I’m not sure why, but I cannot stand my thighs touching when I am lying on my side.
I’m the same. Skin on skin is so hot and sweaty to me.
OP here: I am so surprised at how many people sleep without underwear! That was not the response I was expecting!
I’m surprised people do!
Likewise.
Next I want to ask them do they sleep alone, and how often they clean their sheets. I hope very frequently.
I sleep with my also n@ked husband. Sheets are washed every Sunday.
Same. But we also shower in the evenings.
There’s nothing just leaking.
Fresh looseish cotton undies under pjs. Never tight fitting spandex type ones
Change in the morning – never occurred to me that someone wouldn’t. For me, sleep undies and daytime undies are two different categories.
Generally wear nightgowns but I don’t like the feel of pj bottoms without undies as I give myself wedgies overnight.
I don’t wear underwear to bed.
Wear loose shorts or PJ pants to bed – no underwear. Fresh undies go on in the AM for that day’s outfit.
If I shower at night then I put on clean ones and keep them on the next day. If I haven’t showered then I may keep the same pair on overnight and change in the morning. The only time I change both times is when I’m wearing period undies.
I sleep naked.
I take shower in the morning and in the evening and put fresh underwear after each shower. I use 100% cotton only.
This is insane.
Meh, normal in Eastern & Central Europe.
It feels normal. She’s not saying she washes her hair twice a day. I take a 3 minute shower in the morning and a 5 minute shower at night after work.
Same
Yes and yes, plus after showering. This usually means three pairs a day–morning, after workout/shower, night. I cannot fathom how people don’t change theirs at least twice a day; they must not sweat?
I don’t wear underwear to bed. Got to let my girl breathe. Long ago advice from my doc on preventing yeast infections.
I think that’s an old wives’ tale.
IDK I was plagued by them until going commando at night. Will continue to do so.
Everyone’s anatomy is different, as well as susceptibility to yeast infections. So there is definitely not a set rule or doctor recommendation. If you have recurrent yeast infections, that’s a different story.
I am trying out a leather bag and realizing how heavy it is if it’s hanging cross body or off of a shoulder. I remember pre-COVID we seemed to see a lot of structured MZ Wallace bags but not now? I appreciate the concept so much but don’t want to go hunting a 2018 bag now. What else is there that is at the formal end of nylon bags? I already have a few casual cloth or canvas ones for the weekend.
Longchamp makes crossbody styles that read more formal than many nylon bags.
Longchamp Le Pliage is the obvious answer. I am sure there are others though.
Is the Sak bag still around? I remember that being a thing. I think Kate spade brought back some of the iconic nylon bags from the 90s. Prada also was a a big name for nylon bags back then.
https://www.prada.com/us/en/p/prada-re-edition-2005-re-nylon-bag/1BH204_R064_F0632_V_V9L
https://www.katespade.com/shop/handbags/view-all?materialVal=nylon
I prefer Tumi or Victorinox for nicer nylon bags with good organization and good colors.
If you can find a Victorinox Divine tote, it is the holy grail. Highly recommend. I don’t think they make them anymore.
I’m in a pickle.
I’m actively job hunting and finalist for two jobs. One said I’m their top candidate and we’re talking comp and offer next week. I feel pretty dang solid about that one, but there is no offer yet. I meet w them Tuesday AM.
My management team recruited two people to join my team to work with me. It’s been ongoing for months, they’re supposed to be my new “partners” – like intense day in/out working together – but I’ve been left fully in the dark about all of it until this point, mostly bc my management is subpar to say the very least. Ppl in other offices (and in my own) in same roles as me cannot believe I haven’t been at the table recruiting them in all along the way. Anyway, management has set up a dinner w the recruits ahead of their start for Tuesday evening.
What do I do? I don’t have an offer and likely won’t have one until after Tuesday. I’m also waiting on a potential second offer shortly thereafter so I probably wouldn’t make a decision for a solid week (or more) after said dinner. Do I go? Play along? Just be professional and don’t lean too hard in to the koolaid drinking dinner? I don’t think I can skip out on dinner. They’d cancel the dinner and reschedule ASAP if I wasn’t there, so I don’t think a random faux family emergency would do any good or buy enough time to make a decision on the one (maybe two) offers.
I consider myself a person of high integrity so this all feels so icky, despite the timing being purely coincidental. My job hunt is well over a year old and has nothing to do with the team expanding. That doesn’t mean I’m not super annoyed, downright angry about how these guys were recruited in, though. It’s not about the recruits as individuals but how messed up my leadership is and the overall process. That’s a much longer post for another day, but suffice to say I feel like I owe my leadership nothing, in case that context influences how you might answer.
My vote is just go to the dinner. Worst case the offers fall through and you actually need to work with these people for awhile, right?
Go to dinner, like through your teeth and smile. Spout all the koolaid.
And no, management doesn’t have a clue I’m looking. Genuinely. They’re going to be upset I’m leaving, and probably extra so if I just play along with the dinner and integration of these new recruits just to leave immediately after they start (they don’t have a firm start date but sometime in August). But also…. I don’t think I care? Hell, I didn’t even know they were coming until two weeks ago! I knew about them in concept months ago but never got an update, even when I asked.
I’m within my right to put me first and leave this chaos in the rearview mirror… right? (she asks without confidence…)
Put yourself first! Your company would throw you under the bus in a heartbeat if they could. You don’t owe them anything.
Of course you put yourself first.
If you had been super involved in recruiting them maybe it would be more awkward but as is? Just business. Go to the dinner, smile, get your bag.
I really value being committed, loyal, and responsible. It’s hard for me to make a choice that I know might be misunderstood, will cause my coworkers & bosses hardship, or that might appear like I’m bailing on someone or violating an unspoken expectation. Those of us who are like this can tend to stay too long, be too loyal.
I think your take is actually kind of off, but I can appreciate that that may be because you are frustrated with the organization. That said, this outsider’s perspective is that you can still go to the dinner and help set these new folks up for success at the company, even if you won’t be part of it. Why wouldn’t you do that? It’s professional to the company, and a kindness to the new employees. And you’re right not to bother yourself if the company is upset with you for leaving–it’s business and you don’t owe them sticking around.
That’s a really great way to frame how I should approach the dinner. Thank you for this perspective.
Also, comments about being imminently fired or peers not being involved in hiring processes of other peers are just off base. I’m going to need folks to just trust that I am right about that.
Really appreciative of all the responses. I will enjoy a fancy dinner and beam sunshine.
If your company needed you to stay, they could give you a retention bonus.
Yea, they’re trying to put me on a 3-year contract that comes with a bonus. Refuse to commit to 3 years (or any time). FWIW I work in a weird line of business where contracts are the norm, even if you’re W2, which I am.
You play along until you make another move.
Don’t leave your job before you’ve left your job. You don’t have an offer in hand yet, so play along with the idea that you’ll still be there and working with them and work to create the best relationship you can with them.
Adding to say, yes, definitely put yourself first! So if you get the offer, don’t hesitate to take it if you want it. If they wanted to keep you, they should have done a better job in the first place. It’s not great timing, but that’s not your fault, especially if you weren’t told in the first.
Don’t leave before you leave. Until offer is in hand and all checks are cleared, you’ve got to act like you’re in your current role for the foreseeable future.
grin and bear it. Make sure you are in the right mindset to be professional. Your integrity is not in question; you are showing up to a profressional dinner as requested. And who knows, the dinner may be rescheduled – as could the discussion with the potential employer – for a hundred different reasons.
Go to the dinner and pretend like you’re going to be working with these people. You never know if one of the other offers will actually come through. You don’t know if you’ll end up needing to deal with these people down the line or end up interviewing with them at another company in 10 years.
Business is business. You’re in control of your career, and your company is in control of the recruiting process. The timing feels unfortunate, but everyone with any amount of experience knows that you giving notice a few days after a new person starts has absolutely nothing to do with the new person starting.
You don’t have an offer. Neither of these could come through. So of course you should go and play nice.
And if and when you get an offer, you’ll be leaving with a better impression of you by your own team and the new folks whom you may encounter again at some point in your career.
Also, I know this sounds crazy, but I would still keep looking until I had a solid offer because it sounds like you are about to be fired at any moment, given they’ve left you out of the hiring process.
+1
I was thinking the same thing.
When you say you were not kept in the loop about TWO additional people being hired to be your close partners, my first thought is you are about to be fired. Those two will squeeze you out.
Adding to the chorus of don’t leave before you leave. But also, it’s not uncommon to not have peers involved in the hiring process. There’s often good reasons for it. This dinner may be a way to include you with a preview of what’s to come or the deal may not be totally done and you may have a chance for input after. You’re probably quite frustrated, hence looking, but not everything is nefarious.
Obviously without any concrete offers you play along! Not even sure why this is a question.
My advice is to go to the dinner and be stellar. The primary reason is looking back, you’ll feel better about being extremely professional instead of leaning out. How long can a dinner be, four or five hours? You can do almost anything for four – five hours. If necessary, plan a little reward for yourself for doing so.
In your place, I’d be super angry too. I’d channel that into the long term goal. When you have accepted another offer, and give your notice, you’ve earned the right to do the happy dance (not in the office). Then, although some would call me passive aggressive, I do whatever they reasonably asked for during your notice period. And, I would volunteer nothing, but continue to act super professional and super happy. Good luck!
I’m a Sr. Director at a large tech company, and I just feel completely demoralized and apathetic about my career. I’ve been a gunner in the past, super ambitious, focused on growing in my career, climbing the ladder, etc.
But now, I just can’t. I have zero motivation to try, I feel like the work doesn’t matter, and I just don’t care.
I’m job hunting, and in final rounds with two companies, and I don’t want either of these jobs. It just feels like a treadmill where I sprint as hard as I can, but it turns out that I’m going nowhere.
Can I just get off the treadmill? How do you even come to terms with that? I know it’s an identity crisis, and I’m supposed to sit down and decide what I really want, but it feels like I want to keep caring about and enjoying the journey up the ladder, but I don’t.
I have lots of hobbies that I enjoy, I have a happy marriage, and on paper, I’m very accomplished and continuing to grow. But I just feel apathetic and like I’m failing at most everything.
Can you go for a job with a similar title at a bigger company? I would never admit this IRL, but my experience has been that having a grinding boss above you but not being low-rung is sort of the sweet spot.
I’m actually trying to go to a smaller company, as I feel like this one has just gotten so big that I’m stuck in a tiny box with more and more process heaped onto the role vs. actually doing my craft.
I feel you on the process v. craft bit. I’m also feeling pretty apathetic about my career after decades of being ambitious and caring quite a lot. I’m in-house counsel now and I feel like I barely practice my “craft” in the way that I used to at a firm. Don’t get me wrong, being in-house is hard in its own ways with a whole new set of challenges and different way of applying legal skills, but I really miss the “doing my craft” feeling I got actually litigating cases.
Can you tell me more about that last sentence — where you feel like you’re failing a lot? I could see why that might discourage an ambitious high performer.
It’s a lot of comparison-itis. I look at other people my age who appear to be further along and/or say they’re loving their job. They have a bigger title and/or they’re making more money.
I just released a book, and a friend of mine also released a book around the same time. Their book is doing much better than mine on sales, getting Amazon reviews, and generating speaking engagements.
I’m surrounded by people leaving in-house roles to build their own business, and they say they love it, so much happier, making the same or more money, have lifestyle and time freedom, etc. With my book release and my current apathy, it makes me wonder if I should go out on my own. But I don’t want to do that (historically, I have enjoyed working in-house because I like the connection across teams and projects, I like managing a team, I don’t really want to deal with all the ancillary aspects of running a solo business), so then I just feel like I’m being complacent and cowardly by staying in my current job.
As a fellow sufferer of comparison-itis, I agree with how frustrating it is. I even get a little worked up over small things like my brother reading more sophisticated novels than me, or slightly larger things like fact that as an engineer he makes 2x what I make with half the time put in and loves every minute of it. Lol.
It seems like you have a sense of what you want, but are judging yourself for it (describing yourself as complacent & cowardly). It’s true you’ve accomplished a lot on paper — you even published a whole book! That’s really impressive. I’d truly like to be able to do that someday. I think the comparison-itis, rather than clarifying what you want any further, might instead be getting in the way of a larger question you have internally about what exactly you want to be doing for your career, and how you define success. There are lots of definitions for this, so I think settling with a definition that works for you is probably a good starting point. You listed a lot of things you like about your life, and it’s reasonable to want even more things you like, so getting clear about those — while tuning out the noise of what the people around you are doing — might help.
Personally, I’m looking into down-shifting from a prestigious, high-impact, “WOW!” career to a meh one with a lot less prestige, but also less stress and time commitment because I want to write a book and focus on my marriage more. This is really hard for me and I’ll probably end up staying in my current toxic (but very cool!) role a little longer. I hope the both of us get the fulfillment we’re looking for.
Please tell us the book?! I’d review it for you.
That’s very kind! It definitely outs me, since it’s published under my name, and I’d rather not have this conversation linked directly to me, but I appreciate the offer.
Do you have the finances to walk away?
I am not as senior as you, but planning to walk away this year. I’m also in tech. This means I spend a lot of time working on stuff that simply doesn’t matter or actively makes the world a worse place. Why on earth should we want to keep climbing that ladder?
I plan to decompress for ~6 months and then figure out how I can use my skills to help actual people. Only you can decide what sort of next job is worth caring about.
I do have the finances to walk away, which almost makes it harder? I’ve talked to my husband about it, and his comments are that he knows I like working and I like making money, so I probably wouldn’t be happy just quitting. But I’m getting to the point where I might do that, if for no other reason than it would allow me to publicly say I’m looking for something new, so I could have more and better conversations about the next role.
May I recommend the adult gap year. Have multiple friends that have quit on their own terms, taken a year to travel like trust fund kid on a gap year, then go back to work. If family won’t allow it, think about the option of taking your kids to Europe and living there for the whole summer. Or, give yourself a year to write another book. At least in my small sample size no one has had issues finding a job coming back, and most interviewers were impressed rather than holding the sabbatical/gap year against them.
This is a good suggestion! I also know a few people who have done it, but most of them were not as senior in their career. I feel scared that I’d come back and be stuck at a lower level, but it’s a great idea to explore.
I could’ve written this, word for word. I also am having a career identity crisis, despite having plenty going for me outside of work. I just do not care anymore, and it’s not freeing. It’s unnerving.
How old are you? I’m 39, and I feel like my cohort has been in this same space for a while. It’s like ages 38 – 43 where we’ve reached a pretty solid vista point on the mountain, but we don’t know if it’s worth it to keep trying to climb to the top of the next summit.
But if you’re not climbing, what the heck are you doing!?! And 100%, it’s not freeing, it’s unnerving, because the entire framework you’ve used to make decisions and gauge success and feel fulfilled no longer works. I want to want the things I’ve always wanted, but now I can’t figure out if I just don’t want those things anymore, or if I’m just tired, or if I’m just over this particular job and company, or if I’ve hit the ceiling and that makes me feel like trying to keep climbing is useless.
Not the poster above, but this is also me. I’m 40 this month, and many of the folks I know who are also in my age group feel this way. I’m also not sure if this is truly a shift in what i want, or if it’s just burnout. (To be clear, at least some of it is burnout – but it feels deeper than that this time?)
This is really common among my peers (and me) – early 40s. In general we’ve gotten to really solid places in our careers, in my case reporting to the GC of a large company, but the increase in stress and responsibility if you pursue the next rung is just… not looking worth it? Sure, more money, but at my current level I can actually use my (generous) PTO and not spend my entire vacation checking my phone, I can reliably go home at night and not think board members are going to be calling me in the evening, etc.
Just an anecdote, but I was 39 when I bailed and hung out my solo shingle. Subject area expert, fed up with girls-have-cooties senior management, and no room for advancement internally unless I moved to another city to launch a new branch office. More than 10 years later, I can say it turned out to be a great decision financially and professionally. Yes, I had to worry about the business end of things and not just my area of expertise, but it was ME making the decisions. I think for a lot of women who are really good at their jobs, their tolerance for toxic corporate BS making their lives harder just plummets by the time they hit their late 30s.
Changing jobs can be one of the worst ways to deal with low ambition because you’ll surely fail at a new place without a lot of it. You need to bring full energy when you start something new. My recommendation is lean out at your current job for a while, see how that goes and maybe the ambition comes back.
Following with interest. I’m not in your industry, but I’m having this type of identity crisis as I get more senior. I’m having a hard time caring about anything – it all seems pointless. On paper I’m crushing it, and I’m continuing to progress.
In reality, I’m burnt out and unnerved about how little anything seems to matter.
Same — I was recently promoted to VP/Sr Director type role and it just all feels so… “for what?” Very empty and hollow. I’m doing well in it but the lack of motivation is by itself pretty distressing. I’m not sure what matters to me right now.
My other spicy question, then, is how are the men staying motivated and caring through their 40s and 50s? Is it just easier because they don’t have to constantly prove themselves, the world is built more for them, etc.?
I genuinely don’t think women are less ambitious, less motivated, or less hard-working (if anything, in my circles, it’s the opposite… the women have the Big Jobs and/or focus more on their career). But all of my over-achieving female friends feel like none of this matters and we’ve chosen the wrong thing to chase.
Men stay motivated because they don’t have other responsibilities. Work is the ‘hard’ part of their life, everything else happens by magic.
I think all humans hit a mid-life crisis at some point, but women (depending on your culture) are socialized to have better EQ, and so do that introspection and have these “what am I doing??” moments and crises earlier than, to pull from a stereotype, a mid-50s man with his affair partner and recent splurge on a sports car.
I recommended Arthur Brooks’ From Strength to Strength earlier this week, and I really think you might enjoy it, as well.
I’ll add that to my cart right now, thanks for the rec!
I think it’s normal to hit a point where you think you might have topped out, and get a bit discouraged. For me, some colleagues had gone to a company where they made life changing money when their employer went public. I have had a really good run of interesting work, but certainly nothing occurred like that. I had to do some reflection and just decide to be proud of what I have done and then figure out what I want. I decided to keep working, but just to not be as invested in it, and that was a good decision. Quitting would have driven me nuts, I need the mental challenges that come with work.
I felt this way and switched careers completely. When I was job searching and none of the jobs sounded remotely appealing, it was a signal. There were ups and downs but we were in a place where I could afford to make the switch and I could not be happier. To stay with your metaphor, I got off the treadmill but found a trailhead and now I just want to keep going and going.
Welcome to your midlife crisis! How do you want to spend the second half of your life and what legacy do you want to leave?
I think jealous can be really clarifying if you’re willing to really get into the details of what you’re jealous of about. Do you want their actual job (with all the responsibilities that go along with it) or are you jealous of their independence/prestige/passion etc?
This is a good question, and I’m most jealous of the prestige and the fact that the execs get to be the “face” of the company. They have people at my level, my boss’s level, and my skip-level boss’s level to do the nitty gritty work of budgets and hiring/firing and making slide decks.
They are the ones profiled in the industry magazines for leading the function and getting credit for the success of that function. They are the ones with admins and comms support and writers and producers to build a strong following on LinkedIn because they’re the expert in this function. They are the ones speaking at industry conferences and attending exclusive networking dinners with their fellow C-suite peers. They are the ones approving big, bold ideas, because they actually have the mandate to understand how the overall landscape is changing and what we need to do to keep pace.
I know that sounds like rose-colored glasses, and I know they’re on board calls at all hours of the day, away from family and hobbies, have all the pressure if things fail, etc., but the prestige, public accolades, and high salary make me jealous.
And for the people who have gone out on their own, they’re saying they also have high salaries, love their work and clients, and have the freedom to do whatever they want.
Again, rose-colored glasses, there’s always trade-offs. But if you’re a solopreneur and you’re claiming to make $20k-$50k/mo while living your best life with no bosses changing priorities every other month and no one keeping an eye on your responsiveness on Slack, that looks pretty appealing, even if you don’t have the same level of prestige as the high-flying corporate exec.
I was in biotech and I’d gone as high as I could while keeping a toe in the technical side of things and protecting my life outside of work. I ended up pivoting completely to an NGO focused on global equity in medicine. I’m so much happier – I’m a SME for my technical field for the organization, but I’m on the bottom again and I’m learning so much. Most of the people in the org are on their second career and have incredible experience. If the time comes when I really want to lean in again there is room for me to move up, and this time around it feels like I’m making a difference for people’s lives, not for the company’s bottom line. I took a slight pay cut (~10 %) but it was more than worth it.
Interestingly, I got here after taking 6 months off after burning out post-covid. Best thing I ever did – it gave me time to look around and figure out where I wanted to go and approach it methodically. After reading yesterday’s thread, I’ll forever be grateful that my husband trusted me when I said that was what I needed.
I’m the OP from this thread, and I’m sorta surprised by the people telling this poster to leave, take a gap year, while I got criticized yesterday for wanting to quit my job without something lined up. Isn’t this the same thing? She doesn’t have a plan, either!
But she has the finances to bail indefinitely without relying on her spouse, you dont.
What? There’s no evidence to either of those points! “I have the finances to walk away” and “we have a healthy savings account” could mean the exact same thing for all we know. M I agree, the differences between these responses are wild.
The difference is that your partner was not on board with being the sole bread winner. We know nothing about OP’s situation in that regard, and she’s not even seriously considering leaving without something lined up, unless I misread. OP’s question is in the abstract and people are tossing out ideas, not evaluating a specific situation where there’s a conflict on which is the right path to take.
As the OP of this thread, maybe it’s because I didn’t frame it as quitting my job, I framed it as feeling apathetic and wondering how to get motivated again. Though, in reality, it would be the same thing if I took a gap year… quitting my 6-figure job without something else and no/little plan to find another job for the foreseeable future, so it is fair to be frustrated at the difference in the responses.
The grass is greener where it’s watered. Sounds like you’re used to “watering” your work life. Maybe focus on your personal life? Or is there something else?
This is such a low stakes question, but what is your strategy for underbed storage? Obviously, I think people use them for “soft things I use very rarely,” but outside of that, what do you have under your bed these days?
Just what you said – extra bedding. I have way too much.
Nothing. I realized that I never actually use it well so now it is my cat’s lair and I couldn’t possibly take it away from her
I previously didn’t want to store a bunch of stuff under the bed because it’s harder to dust and vacuum, but so it goes in a tiny apartment. We store our duffel bags, whitewater rafting gear (smaller items like splash jackets), skis, and wrapping paper.
Off season clothing. I hate looking at coats in August and tank tops in February. Both feel like visual clutter. So I put them in the long plastic bins under my bed, which also helps me evaluate truly seasonal clothing to see whether I’m in fact wearing it. Some items like jeans and short-sleeved shirts stay out all year (I live in the South where a short sleeved shirt may be worn in January).
I have the same plastic bins. They store stuff that I still really like, but isn’t quite my current size. The overly optimistic jean purchase, etc.
All in linen bins – off season boots or shoes, formalwear accessories (heels, sparkly clutches, etc), off season bedding, extra (guest) towels… and a rolled up area rug that I don’t want to part with but don’t know where to put!
Luggage, and off season bedding (winter duvet and flannel sheets).
I do have some banker’s boxes with old cards/letters/momentos/childhood things, Old taxes / financial records that I need to keep, and some older electronics that I don’t use frequently but not ready to chuck.
I don’t have any underbed space, but my parents keep extra pillows, blankets, mattress, Christmas tree, you name it. All sorted and in dust-proof bags. They have beds which flip-up, so the storage space is easily accessible.
I have long flat bins under there: one for off-season shoes, one for all things gift-wrapping, and one for extra fabric (I sew). I’d prefer a lovely open space, but I have minimal storage, so using under-bed space is essential.
Mine has clothes that don’t fit, some shoes I never wear anymore, and some workout equipment.
Most of that should just be donated.
Why would I do that? I use the workout equipment and I’m postpartum, so it’ll most likely get worn again in a few months.
Just a fire ladder. When I was in a small apartment I stored stuff but now I love the airy feel.
Nothing. That’s a dust trap.
I store rolls of gift wrap, ribbon, gift tags, etc. in a storage box underneath my bed. I also have my grandmother’s wedding dress in another box underneath my bed.
I’m one of the disaster relief posters here and I have an 80% packed suitcase for work travel here. I just throw in the rest of my clothes and go.
I keep PJs, a few work outfits, workout clothes, boots, some but not enough socks and underwear, toiletries, first aid kit, chargers, and lots of “random stuff” (laundry bag, sheets of detergent and quarters, mess kit and travel mug, umbrella, notebook and pen, exercise bands, some fun stuff for downtime (embroidery kit, deck of cards, kindle), sleeping bag liner, aero press and travel kettle, among other things). This way I can just throw in the rest of my clothing, make any situation dependent swaps, and get out the door asap.
Nothing under my bed. Under the guest bed, gift wrap, folding chairs, and the leaf for the kitchen table. Under my teenager’s bed there is one box with spare linens because her closet is crammed full of clothes and one thousand tote bags.
A lovely Kelim carpet.
If I had underbed storage in a guest room I would keep out of season sports equipment and emergency stuff (not a go bag, the staying in for a week with no water or power kind).
I wish this jacket came in a color other than orangey red!
Signed,
Cool Summer
Same!