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Horse Crazy is back with more wedding BS
Hi friends – another wedding BS question from me. Trying to figure out what to do about inviting significant others of cousins. I’ve never met these SOs, but they live together. Do I need to invite them? I understand giving someone a plus one if they don’t know anyone else at the wedding, but this doesn’t apply here because they will know a ton of our other cousins/their parents are coming. I asked FH’s aunt for her son’s address, and she sent me the info in this format:
Son’s Name and Son’s Girlfriend’s Name
Address
City/State
We have never met his girlfriend, and I wasn’t planning on inviting her, but I feel like I should since the aunt sent both names? Alternatively, on my side of the family, I asked my cousin (who also lives with a boyfriend we’ve never met) for her address, and she just said to include her name on the invite I’m sending to her parents’ house, and didn’t mention anything about the boyfriend (I don’t even know his name).
What are the Hive’s thoughts on this?
Anon
This is always a pain because people get offended no matter what you do. For a lot of people it’s an issue of keeping the guest list lower for budgetary reasons, but if you make a rule like “only spouses” then you’re penalizing people who choose not to wed, etc. I don’t envy you this problem.
I went on an “I’ll know it when I see it” kind of +1 rule. Friend with a life partner: plus one. Sister-in-law with a new guy every week: no plus one. Cousin with a boyfriend of about 6 months who we’d never met: plus one, because aunt is a nightmare drama queen and it wasn’t worth the hassle.
Anon
If you invite significant others, which you should, no one gets offended, so I disagree with your premise here.
Anon
I know this board skews rich, but giving everyone a plus one was simply not feasible when we got married, and we had a bare bones wedding.
AIMS
How does this make sense when you’re talking about people who live together?? Would you not invite the spouse of someone for budget reasons? Or would you plan a different/smaller wedding?
OP, just picture your cousin saying – ‘hey so I’m going to be away weekend of X for a wedding. No, you can’t come…’
Anon
Yes, you should invite live-in significant others. It’s well settled that you should invite spouses, even those you have never met, and if a couple is serious enough to live together, it seems like a comparable situation to me.
I don’t think you have to put the SO’s name in the envelope if you don’t know it, but you should allow a +1 to the cousins who are in that situation.
Anonymous
yeah i think if they’re living together as more than roommates you should invite them. but i think unmarried people’s names go on separate lines on the invite.
Anon
I did not know that about unmarried couples. I have put them on the same line, sort of Jane Doe and Robert Roe. I had to teach my kids recently how to address letters and it was 1000% a task. IDK if actual stationery is going the way of . . . the Blackberry? BetaMax? All of the things that were “better” but are nevertheless gone. [I love stationery. My kids will inherit it as I don’t use it as fast as I buy it.]
Anonymous
I think “same line” is saved for couples who are married but have different names, like this:
https://www.hollyholden.com/previous-mmm-newsletters/2019/11/3/addressing-an-envelope-couple-is-not-married
Nesprin
The rule I was taught is if unmarried, her name goes first: Ms. Jane Roe and Mr. John Doe. If married, his name goes first and you group titles: Mr. and Ms. John Doe and Jane Roe.
signed,
the child of Mr. and Dr. John Doe and Jane Roe.
LaurenB
You have GOT to be kidding. Mr. and Ms. John Doe and Jane Roe is an absolute abomination. We can fight over whether it’s Mr. John Doe and Ms Jane Roe, or Ms Jane Roe and Mr John Doe, but please have the courtesy of putting the Ms in front of the woman’s name and the Mr in front of the man’s name. And that’s even worse if Jane Roe is a doctor and you’re making it Mr. and Dr. John Doe and Jane Roe.
PolyD
This is interesting. I remember a few years ago commenting here that my boyfriend (at the time, we’d been together for….15+ years) had been invited to be a groomsman at a wedding requiring travel and a whole weekend of festivities, and I was not invited. I had met the groom several times, I can’t remember if I’d met the bride, but I think I had. The consensus on this s*te was I should not have been expected to be invited because we were not married. It was right and proper to draw the line at legal marriage.
Happy to see that attitude has changed!
Anon 2.0
Oh my. I didn’t know this site was around in 1957. I wasn’t around back then on this site but glad to see there has been a shift is that was the official opinion of the hive.
Anon
Oh wow! That is insane. I’m also glad this site has caught up to the 21st century.
Ses
Aww. Reminds me of our old jokes about partners who commute to the office via time machine.
Anon
I think it may have less to do with evolving attitudes and more to do with the way the question is framed. Here, a bride is writing in and asking what’s optimal for invites, and people are telling her it’s kinder and more inclusive to include long-term, live-in SOs. I don’t remember your specific question, but if you were writing from the perspective of a guest offended about her BF not being invited to a wedding, people may have pointed out that etiquette technically only *requires* it if the couple is married (which several people on this thread have also noted), and may have told you bluntly that as a guest your options are suck it up and go alone, or don’t go. None of that’s really inconsistent – different perspectives in the same scenario will get different advice.
AIMS
PolyD – I don’t know if I participated in that discussion but you can be sure that consensus was wrong then too!
Anon
I invited anyone whose other was significant enough for a shared address and/or had been together at least a year. OTOH, I didn’t really do random plus-one invitations except for wedding party and divorced parents.
test run
+1 same here and none of the single members of the wedding party ended up bringing a plus one anyway (they had to travel and I think just wanted to hang out with each other). I think this is one of those things where if you can afford to, you’ve just got to let things go and let people bring whomever. We did have to tell someone no for a last minute plus one because we were at the top of a capacity tier for the venue and adding one person would have cost us a big chunk of change, but other than that we just said yes to people randomly saying they were bringing their uninvited kids, etc. I figured that ten years on I wouldn’t care either way (it’s only been three years but it’s already true).
Anon
We invited kids from out of town guests, and I tried to invite groups of friends. So I invited the high school gang, the crew from university, etc., and figured that everyone would know at least two or three other people there (besides me).
Monday
I had a small guest list and gave everyone a +1, including single guests. I’m sure this won’t be popular, but I think it’s kind when you’re asking someone to travel and all that, regardless of how many others they will know. Going to a wedding alone can be rough–better if it’s done by choice. My sister and several friends brought platonic friends for fun, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Anon
I responded above and completely agree with this take. I don’t think it’s wrong to not give a +1 to everyone, but I do think it’s the kindest thing to do and gives your guests the maximum chance for enjoyment.
Anon
IMHO, the issues of inviting a long-term SO and giving plus-ones aren’t the same. The failure to invite a fiance(e), long term boyfriend/girlfriend, or live-in partner is the kind of thing that wrecks friendships.
It is “nice” to give everyone a plus-one, but it’s hardly mandatory and reasonable people don’t get upset about it. That’s because there are unlimited “nice” things to so for your guests and it’s not feasible to do it all.
Anon
Agree.
NYCer
+1. Many of our guests had to travel to our wedding, and we offered a +1 to everyone.
Anon
That’s wonderful if you can afford to do so! I wish we had been in a position to do that.
Walnut
Another vote for giving everyone a plus one – I planned my guest list/venue/budget accordingly.
Anon
I’ll dissent and say I don’t really understand the concept of bringing a +1 that’s a random date or a friend. An SO, absolutely, and even though etiquette may say you draw the line at marriage, I wanted all my friends to have the option to have their partners there regardless of legal status or how long they’d been together or how “serious” they were or whatever. But I found the idea of my wedding guests bringing other friends to the wedding to be weird and almost kind of insulting, like they needed their own buddy to survive my event. And then it’s awkward if the friend they bring is someone you know and have chosen not to invite. So we didn’t do +1s for single guests, even though it wasn’t an issue of space or money (caveat that we invited friend groups, so everyone knew people who weren’t But my opinion may be colored that a friend brought an uninvited and un-RSVPed for +1, who was a female friend that I knew and didn’t particularly like…so basically the exact reason we didn’t give singles +1s.
Anon
*everyone knew people who weren’t us
Anon
We had a 30 guest wedding and one of my husband’s friends brought along her out of town guests who happened to be visiting that weekend. I will never forget that! Especially when we had a really hard time making decisions about who was included in our “closest 30” and who wasn’t.
Anon
Yes, you should invite the serious partners of your guests.
Anon
I think it depends on whether the relationship is reasonably long term and whether travel is involved. In my two adult long-term relationships (including my now husband), every wedding we’ve attended has involved significant travel and we wouldn’t have been very likely to go if we couldn’t both go. I also would have found it slightly offensive if he/I hadn’t been invited, though I do understand how wedding planning is complicated. On the other hand, I wouldn’t expect a +1 if I was just casually dating and wouldn’t be offended about being invited alone if the wedding was local and I knew lots of the people there.
Anonymous
I would invite all of them in established relationships. I don’t think whether or not you have met them is relevant—how will you meet them if they are never invited to anything?
Anon
Exactly!
Anon
My live in boyfriend wasn’t invited to my cousins wedding and it significantly contributed to total estrangement of the two families. I think both sides overreacted and share blame, but unless you really don’t care about these cousins I think serious partners of family members should be invited.
Anon
So I think that everyone secretly hates weddings (except the couple getting married and those of us who treat them as reunions), especially if it’s not their family, so IDK why these things come to blows? Maybe things are fraught and this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back? B/c most people I know would think they hit the jackpot to not be invited to an in-laws (or live-in-GF’s family’s wedding, especially if they’ve never met the people). And I would not get offended if I were the bride and got a lot of “Ned needs to stay home with the dog” where only half of a couple attends.
Anon
Because it’s weird to ask people to celebrate your marriage while dissing other people’s relationships. Unless it’s a situation wherein, for example, the husband is abusive and having him there causes problems, there’s little reason to not be enough of an adult to invite both husband and wife, or the live-in SO, etc.
Anon
Well I didn’t go, but I really didn’t feel like traveling across the county solo to a wedding where I knew literally no one except the bride, her sister and parents. (Grandparents were dead, no other cousins etc). My parents didn’t go (for other reasons, mostly) and their absence was the real root of the conflict, but I think my presence might have smoothed things over if I’d gone, which I would have if my BF (who was my fiancé by the time of the wedding) had been invited.
Anon
I don’t secretly hate weddings. I love them. But agree that you invite partners. Otherwise you come across as a cheapskate (there’s no other logical reason to exclude them)
Anon
I love them too. I think a lot of people do!
anon
I disagree with this take. I’m of the opinion that people generally like weddings (generally…) but the reason fights and what not are born out of them is that weddings force families and friend groups to talk about things like this that are otherwise just not up for discussion. Name another situation that makes a cousin make a judgment call about the seriousness of another cousin’s relationship. It just does not exist, and helps to exacerbate tensions that are probably already underlying.
Anon
Similar issue here. My boyfriend wasn’t invited to a close family member’s wedding because he didn’t pass the “living together or married” test. We’d been together for eight years at that point.
Senior Attorney
Agree that you have to invite live-in partners of your guests. Failing to do so is just about as bad as inviting one-half of a married couple, which of course is an absolute no-no.
Anon
If they are in a serious relationship, such as living together, the SO should be invited
Anonymous
Yes. Invite them. Invite everyone’s significant others. Were you ever delighted to be invited to a wedding without your significant other? This isn’t wedding nonsense it’s basic courtesy.
Anon
+1 – also, invite the singletons with a guest, too. Same line of thinking, it sucks to go to a wedding alone. You probably still will (I wasn’t rustling up wedding dates but I sure looked fondly at the couples who considered my feelings). Have the wedding you can afford to do graciously.
LaurenB
What if you’re not dating anyone? Are you supposed to just rustle up a random person of whatever gender you are attracted to? Why can’t singles just go and have fun? What ever happened to … you met a cute guy at someone’s wedding? How do you do that if you are already paired with a casual person?
Anon
You don’t HAVE to bring a +1. The invitation just gives you the option. C’mon.
Anon
If you don’t care enough about these cousins to care about their relationships, just don’t invite them at all. Saves you that much more money.
Anon
+1 it’s a real F U to someone to not invite their live in partner. If you don’t care about the cousins, don’t invite them.
Anon
What is odd to me is that if you’re already not close, often you don’t even know that this has happened. I hear about weddings and funerals and babies but moving in together, I’m often not aware of that. I may think that there is a BF but not that he’s been “promoted.”
Anon
You can ask before you send invites. We asked some of our wedding guests whose status we weren’t sure about if they had an SO we should also include since we did +1s for SOs but not +1s for guests who weren’t in committed relationships. And we wouldn’t have been at all offended (and would have said yes) if someone had reached out and said “hey, John and I just started dating a couple months ago, can he come with me?” I know asking as a guest is awkward and probably violates etiquette rules, but as a bride I really wanted my friend’s boyfriends and girlfriends to feel welcome and I would have been happy if someone asked.
BeenThatGuy
My $.02 is invite them. For reference, my niece got married last year. My sister received an invitation that said “Jane Doe and Family”. My invitation said “Mary Doe”. Mine did not include my son and long term partner, for whatever reason. I was hurt but traveled to the wedding alone. Life goes on.
Anonymous
Even “Jane Doe and Family” is rude. Your niece couldn’t bother to write out her uncle and cousins’ names on the invitation? Yuck.
BeenThatGuy
Tell me about it!
Anon
Definitely invite the girlfriend and boyfriend. I think it’s weird not to give someone a plus one unless we’re talking like a high school dating situation. Even potential rudeness aside, it’s also just not fun to attend a wedding solo. Sure they know family there but hanging out with your parents and aunt and uncles is not the same.
Anon
I will disagree here — I think that it is great fun to attend a wedding solo (ditto reunions). This was true when I was single (such a drag to bring a new BF who knows no one) and now that I am an old married lady who wants to go into reunion mode (with people spouse just knows via xmas cards). I get that it is not everyone’s cup of tea, but we exist.
Anon
You still have the choice to attend solo if you want to, though!
AIMS
Yes but it’s an invite not a summons.
Anonymous
I haaaated being a +1 at weddings. It always created this whole aura of awkwardness about the status of the relationship I was in. For example, I did not participate in the bouquet tosses as a matter of principle. I think they are tacky and offensive and misogynistic and anachronistic. But people, including my dates/BFs noticed, and then it would become a thing (another good reason not to do this at a wedding). On one occasion, I showed up to the wedding of one of my long-term-he sometimes referenced engagement-BF’s three closest friends only to be questioned by the groom as to exactly who I was to my BF, how long we’d been dating, and what I thought our relationship was. That didn’t go well at all. On the flip side, when I went to a wedding solo, I usually got to hook up with a groomsman.
LaurenB
+ 1. (Ha, see what I did there.)
Cat
Whether or not they know others at the wedding isn’t relevant, it’s whether they have a long-term SO.
Anonymous
But if they don’t know anyone but the immediate wedding party and aren’t in a long term relationship, then that is a hugely cruddy way to spend their time. Having done a lot of this in my 20s, I will NEVER put someone through this. I honestly would have paid myself to bring a date or friend than to try to make small talk for hours. Ick.
Cat
I was responding to Horse’s specific question of whether she needs to invite SO’s of the cousins *even though* cousins know others at the wedding, FWIW.
Anonymous
I feel like there is also an element of “know your event” here, too. What kind of experience is this person going to have? Will there be lots of other singletons there mixing around? Will they know lots of people from college/grad school/a club you belonged to? OK, I could see inviting them without a plus one. If they won’t know anyone else there and will end up seated at a table of couples who can’t keep their hands off each other long enough to have a polite conversation with a new person, then please give that person a plus one.
Anon
See, I don’t think this is okay, though. You’re still making a decision for them about their relationship that is not your place to make.
Anonymous
FWIW, we invited all single guests as “John Doe and guest” and no one brought a +1. (We also invited all known partners by name; many of these did attend.) Inviting +1s allowed us to be courteous to our friends at zero expense. The wedding was in a location where most guests had to travel (we had it where we lived at the time, which was a place we’d both moved to relatively recently), so that probably dissuaded people from bringing random dates.
hi hi hi
I got married last year and waited until the absolute latest day I could to send invitations due to COVID restrictions on venue size in my city. We ended up with something like 70% capacity to what we were originally going to be permitted. So, I was left with a similar decision — invite more people overall but cut plus ones for the single / unmarrieds or give everyone invited a plus one (the original plan) but cut back our guest list.
Ultimately it came down to — what would I want as a guest if I was being invited to this wedding? I would want the ability to bring someone. So, we ax’ed people (including cousins, actually) originally on the list so invited people could bring someone. I don’t know how the cousins/work colleagues/etc. felt to not be invited, but… shrug. I am fine living with the consequences. And as someone said below, for many, not getting an invite is the equivalent of cancelling plans — a giant relief! haha.
Anon
The gracious thing to do is offer everyone a plus one. People will tell you it’s okay not to for this and that reason, but it’s inconsiderate to your guest to not give them the option of being the most comfortable when attending your wedding. For some, going alone will be their best choice, for others, taking a pal. Weddings bring up a lot of emotion for people. If you want to be a good host, then you focus on letting your guests’ comfort. And that means extending them the option of bringing a date.
LaurenB
I personally think this works the other way. I think it’s more important to include significant others who are living together than it is to include some random plus-one. You prioritize people who are meaningful to your loved ones versus their Tinder pick-ups or casual dates.
I don’t see what “never met” has to do with anything — if my husband and I get invited to my coworker’s wedding, it’s possible that he’s never met the person or if he has it’s been a superficial hi-nice-to-meet-you, but so what if I have a close relationship with the person?
Anon
I gave my DVF wrap dress the side-eye recently and when I couldn’t sleep last night tried to see if there were any hacks on YouTube for wearing these. I am going to try sewing in some snaps. IDK if this will work, but I seem to be able to tear through fashion tape (it’s my monster hips — I need to snug the top up b/c I’m a pear, so I am sizing up for my lower half). Wish me luck!
Anonymous
try wearing it backwards? i always used to hear that.
Anonymouse
Good luck! let us know how the hacking goes.
DVF never worked for me, so I hope you can bend the dress to your will.
Anon
I’m also a pear and sadly DVF only worked for me at my absolute thinnest (aka, when I didn’t have my pear hips – the first place I put on weight).
Anon
I have had much more luck with little hooks than snaps. The snaps can come undone with pressure…
Anonymous
Yes, I used a hook for mine.
Cat
Size for the bottom and wear a cami on the top is the only way they ever work for me. Forget tape and snaps, you need layers.
Sloan Sabbith
I have “LED Desk Lamp, Dimmable Piano Light, Eye-Caring Table Lamp with USB Charging Port, 4 Color Modes & 4 Brightness Levels,1 Hour Timer for Reading, Study, Working, Black” from Amazon although when I bought it it was a different brand….
It’s perfectly acceptable. It does have a USB charger but it sits behind my laptop and monitor on my desk with a hutch so it’s not very accessible and so I don’t use it. I like that it has different colors.
Anonymous
if you use peptides in your skin routine, when do you use them in your layering process? i googled and saw some stuff that said they can’t be mixed with BHA, vitamin C, or retinol, so that leaves out my AM and PM routine… (also does every peptide make your skin feel… tacky almost? i’ve tried 4 different kinds and they all feel like sticky.)
Anon
I use Paula’s Choice Peptide serum, even though scientific consensus is there is no evidence it works (for now). I saw changes in my skin tone (more even and brighter), so ICCL about science.
I use it in a.m. after Calming Toner from same brand. Then apply Cerave moisturizer with SPF and follow with make-up.
I apply it at night when I am not applying tretinoin. I layer same calming toner, peptide serum, cerave moisturizer w/o SPF and then a layer of Vitamin C cream (it has a weird, thick-cream, pilling formula, it is strong – so i only lightly dab it as a last layer).
The peptide serum I use is very slightly sticky, but this is why I just quickly spread it over skin, no “massaging in” and the stickiness is gone by the time I am applying cream.
Anon
One of my colleagues doesn’t read her email, doesn’t read Teams messages, and then asks questions that have been answered multiple times before in emails or messages, 2-3 times a DAY. The entire team has started saying “Check your email” but she hasn’t gotten the hint. Our supervisor finally told her she needs to start reading her emails before she asks other people questions.
Anon
Too bad there is no “unsubscribe” feature in real life.
Anon
No but there is a mute option on Teams which I use a LOT.
Anon
I’m considering a long weekend in February in Miami because I cannot take it anymore between COVID and freezing temps here. Single and will be traveling solo, no interest in clubs, just want warm weather, outdoor dining, and sun. And very COVID-cautious.
A few questions:
*If all I want is a nice enough hotel and access to a beach, do I have to be in Miami Beach/South Beach? How’s Coral Gables, Ft. Lauderdale, and other nearby cities?
*Do I need a car? Is it worth leaving beachy areas to see Vizcaya or the Venetian Pool in Coral Gables?
*Any cute hotel recs that aren’t over $300 a night?
Anon
I would recommend Miami Beach but doesn’t need to be South Beach. FLL is blah but might be ok if all you want is warm + beach. Coral Gables is an affluent residential planned community and not walkable to beaches. I can’t imagine staying there as a tourist.
Anon
I don’t know if it’s cheaper, but people say good things about Naples (on the Gulf Coast) if you’re just looking for a beach vacation.
Anony
Oh hey I just booked a long weekend in Miami in early February for the same reason. I don’t go clubbing but I love the Vegas-y insanity of South Beach, the excellent people-watching, the architecture, the alternately glam-trashy vibes. I went to South beach by myself once and had an incredible time, it’s a great place to wander around and just feel like you’re not in real life for a little while. That said, if you’re truly just looking for beach + chill, you could definitely do Fort Lauderdale or Hollywood Beach or somewhere else.
BeenThatGuy
I did South Beach alone in February and loved it! Stayed at the Ritz, so not your price point, but loved every minute.
anonymous
I love the Ritz on South Beach. I think South Beach in general would meet your needs. There are all types of hotels right on the beach and you don’t need a car to get around. I like oyster dot com for hotel reviews because they show real-life pictures.
Anonymous
Vizcaya is GORGEOUS and totally worth the trip. So is a day trip into the Everglades. Unless you are planning to be in South Beach, where you can walk to the beach and to restaurants/bars/the open Lincoln Road Mall area, you’ll probably want a car, if you want to go someplace other than hotel/beach. Last time I was there, there was very little public transit.
Jz
i would definitely stay on south beach as a single even if not into clubbing. for hotel deals, i don’t know how risk averse you are but i had really good luck with just booking with hotel tonight the day of the flight. there are so many options on south beach you’ll bound to have some availability and HT will have the best price. I’ve done this a few times for Miami
Assistant Gift
My legal assistant of 4 years is leaving for another job in a different field. I am a senior associate and share her with one of the partners. I want to get her a nice gift. I was already planning to get her a gift certificate for a massage for helping with a case that has been a major pain for a year, but I want to add to that. What do you recommend? Thanks in advance.
NYCer
I would give cash and a thoughtful card. YMMV.
Anon
Cash, card, and a note that you are always there to serve as a reference for her.
Anon
Hey hive, after essentially living together for this last pandemic year, BF’s lease is finally up, he’s officially moving in, and I’m about to fully share expenses with a partner for the first time. I’m wondering if anyone who had similar inputs has advice on setting ourselves up well for the future? We both feel marriage is in our long-term outlook, kids are a very vague maybe for both of us as we’re in our 30’s and living a strong DINK lifestyle. One of my friends recently asked if we’re opening a joint checking account to pay expenses out of and I was like…. ‘no? Why? He’s just going to transfer me his half of the household expenses…. I have everything set up on autopay and value/use the card points.” That question did give me some pause, though, and got me thinking about what I should be considering that I’m not.
In a nutshell: HHI will be 250+. My salary is slightly more but he has significant investments, I have some but less yet own my condo, which he is moving into, and we both own our cars outright. Thus far, I’ve purchased the groceries and Nespresso pods, he covers wine/booze, takeout and restaurant dining, we go back and forth on random small things like brewery or coffee shop stops. We travel extensively, cover our own plane tickets, he tends to pick up hotel (he gets employee rates) and dinners, split rental cars, I cover whatever I can whip my card out faster than him for. We’re both fine with this arrangement and plan to keep it up. I’ve documented out what I pay monthly for in my MCOL area for household/utility, and we’ve agreed to split those expenses 50/50.
The last thing I’m somewhat stuck on is this: neither of us spends flippantly or lavishly, I’d call us both reasonable and financially responsible, and neither has debt other than my mortgage. One item I’ve always been somewhat put off of is my friends who have strict rules about checking with each other before making larger purchases. I’m extremely enneagram 8 and asking permission to spend my own money is not something I’m really willing to do. I also don’t have any interest in having him check with me before he buys something, he’s currently considering buying a rental property and he can do that all day without asking me, if he wants my opinion I’ll ask the diligence questions I can think of but I honestly don’t care if he does it or not, he can afford it and I trust whatever he decides he wants to do is the right choice for him. I pay for sports I participate and compete in, as well as a single country club membership (he doesn’t golf so I won’t be adding him). Things we’ll both use I’m happy to make a join decision on. I just envision us keeping our money separate, splitting what’s truly shared (including if kids come along in the future), and I’m just not going to ask anyone’s permission before I buy a new set of irons if I need them? We’ve had good, open discussions about finances so I’m not worried about our ability to talk it out if we’re buying a home together later or if something changes.
Anon
Not married, not in a long term relationship, never have been but from my complete outsider point of view it sounds like there’s no reason to have a joint account and it’s working for you. Why change it?
Anon
Married several years and we don’t have a joint account. We both spend less than we earn, split bills roughly evenly, and save aggressively. No checking in before purchases – we are both sufficiently frugal that neither one of us really cares.
One of my friends has been married for 15 years and does the same thing. Other friends do some joint, some individual accounts. One set of friends have fully merged finances – only retirement accounts are in their own names.
Anon
Married 14 years with separate accounts. We transfer money to each other when needed.
Anon
I’m glad to hear this works long term for other people, I think that’s what I needed to hear.
anon
I personally would not co-mingle finances until it’s legal, so I think what you’re doing sounds fine.
Curious
+1. We got a joint checking account when we got married.
Anon
+1
Anon
Unpopular opinion, but I wouldn’t combine anything unless you’re married, so separate accounts all the way. I only got comfortable with the one pot/ checking in on large purchases once I legally signed up for a combined future. I’d also not live together unless engaged – it’s a lot to untangle and can lead to sunk cost decisions.
Anon
I fall in here, too. Living together is marriage-like, so I’d be hesitant to do before getting engaged (unless I were a widow). If he is paying for your condo, separate checking account or not, that can get tricky emotionally if you split up. I think it feels different in a rental. Ditto him getting a rental property (that won’t be yours). Let’s say you refinanced into a 15 year mortgage from a 30 — would he want to pay more b/c your payment has gone up?
This of this morning’s poster who wasn’t sure about buying a place with a shared driveway. This is way more than a shared driveway in terms of entanglement potential. And I feel that people just don’t do cohabitation agreements (or roommate agreements, but there’s less drama potential), so in my boat it’s just easier to get married where you know what the deal is vs move in with the marriage clock not ticking.
Anon
I appreciate these thoughts, I think contemplating what the sunk-costs could be moving into future decisions is a good check. In fact I did actually just refinance my place for the 2% interest and moved to a 15 year mortgage. I was lucky to purchase my home in the early 20teens, my 2BR condo has appreciated significantly, so even after refi, my total mortgage + HOA fee is less than what he was paying previously solo in rent, and in fact, is more akin to than the typical lease now on a 1BR apt half the size. I don’t anticipate moving before we’re married so I don’t perceive significant risk in this area. If he buys the rental property, he’s planning to treat it independently as it’s own business, I won’t have liability toward it and it won’t factor into our joint expenses. We have definitely discussed having a prenup, I’m a proponent of letting the best version of ourselves create the framework that we’d operate under later when we’re in conflict, so a simple cohabitation agreement might not be a bad idea. On the wedding timeline front, he has bought me a sort of pre-engagement ring to wear traveling, and has established his budget for an engagement ring, so while we haven’t gotten engaged yet, I’d say there’s significant commitment to that path on both sides.
Anon
It’s not that hard to break up with somebody you live with.
Anon
No, but if they are on the lease or it’s like NYC where there are crazy landlord tenant laws, I think you can have nightmare situations where you can’t live in your apartment but are stuck paying rent if you are on the lease (or can be kicked out of your home if you aren’t on the lease). Breaking up is easy. It’s the real estate and utilities getting shut off out of spite that is hard.
nuqotw
+1. We are in the all combined live separately until marriage camp. However that’s what being on the same page looks for us. It sounds like you and SO are on the same page so you are all set.
Anon
When I moved in with my now husband, we opened a credit card for our joint expenses. It’s in his name with me as an authorized user, which I guess could be risky if you don’t really trust each other, but we were okay with it. We still use that credit card for all our mutual expenses and have our own credit card for individual expenses so that we don’t have to check in with each other about personal spending. We also have joint checking/savings accounts, which is where the bulk of our cash lives, and still have our individual own checking accounts, with enough for our individual expenses; the rest is transferred every month or so to the joint account. It sounds sort of complicated, but doesn’t actually take much effort, as we have pretty decent savings and are both pretty frugal. I guess this would be harder if our budgets were tighter, but I like the mix of being able to spend as I like but still have most of our assets pooled and be able to monitor our budget and make decisions about investments and other issues together.
Telco Lady JD
This is exactly what we did/have done.
mymoney
I’ve been married for 6 years and we handle finances exactly the same as you. I love it and wouldn’t have it any other way. I have friends who have to check with their spouses before they make big purchases for themselves and it weirds me tf out. Personally I would hate not being in total control of my own money. I trust my husband, and if he wants to spend $1000 on a VR set for his PC, I assume he isn’t going into credit card debt for it or something. We talk about money all the time, casually, even though it’s not in the same account, so we’re on the same page anyway.
We opened a joint savings account when we started saving for our wedding so we do save for exciting life things jointly, but that’s it. The joint savings account is what we used for our house down payment, and we’ve been eyeing camper vans recently, so that would come out of that fund too. Otherwise we’re pretty loosey goosey. You paid for groceries last time, so I pay this time.
I have a friend who teases me for Venmo-ing my husband for the mortgage payment, but she has to ask her husband before she can buy a jacket so… everyone is different!
Anon
The thing is though, when you’re married it isn’t your money anymore. I suppose if you keep everything entirely separate and plan your savings and investments separately it is, but that’s not the best strategy of you actually intend to partner with someone for a lifetime.
Anon
I’ve been married 23 years this year and we have never completely co-mingled finances. We have watched couple after couple break up or have severe strain put on their marriages over finances because someone spent too much on blah-blah or someone had different spending priorities than the other person. Meanwhile, our system works great and I imagine will carry us through the next 23 years of our marriage just fine. It’s really great for people to come up with platitudes like “people who don’t co-mingle their money aren’t serious about their relationship.” But I assure you, after 25 years together, two homes purchased, having a child together, adopting two sets of dogs, and dealing with parental death and disability, car accidents, serious illness, not-so-serious illness, and the remodeling of a kitchen (which was, bar none, the biggest stress our relationship ever faced) – we’re pretty serious about staying together. We can still make mutually beneficial plans and long-term plans for the future and put our paychecks in separate checking accounts. Trust me, it works just fine.
Anon
-1 You have no idea about what’s best for other people’s marriages
Anon
Marriages perhaps not, but investing, yes actually I do. And keeping your finances separate is not a good strategy unless you intend to split up.
Anon
Anon at 9:32, you’re actually wrong about investments and the “best thing.”
Managing money is like eating: it gets deeply emotional and the best system is the one that you can keep doing indefinitely that gets you most of what you want.
My investment strategy probably gets me about 90% of optimal, but has the massive advantage of not pushing the emotional buttons I know I have. The worst financial strategy is to get all those emotional buttons pushed, and 90% or 95% of a theoretical ideal beats the pants off aiming for 100% and having a big blowup because it’s not sustainable.
Everyone has emotional triggers with money. Everyone. #1 step in investments is avoiding those.
Anonymous
These days there are so many budgeting tools and ways to transfer money or split transactions that I think it is much easier than it used to be to keep separate accounts while still sharing expenses.
Anon
We use Splitwise and settle up monthly, works great for us. We put in the mortgage, bills, groceries, going out to eat, etc. We’ve considered a joint checking account for the mortgage, so we could both automate deposits and the payments, but it hasn’t been enough of a pain without it for us to actually do it yet.
Curious
Oh yeah we used Splitwise when we weren’t married. Even for wedding expenses. It was great! And when and if you do choose to combine accounts, YNAB is a nice way to stay on the same page about spending while retaining autonomy. I don’t have to ask if I can buy a jacket; I do have to look if I’ve spent down the Curious Clothes envelope or not
Anon
I’ve loved Splitwise for friend trips, this is a great idea!
test run
Hello fellow 8! My recommendation for this type of thing is always to think carefully about what works for *you* and *your* partner and ignore “what everyone else does,” which I think is what you’ve done! My husband and I basically have the setup you’ve described (and similar HHI, vague thoughts about kids, etc.) so I won’t get into the nitty details, but basically I say carry on! And just be prepared to keep talking about these things periodically and make adjustments as needed.
And I’m with you on the rules about larger purchases – that would not work for me, either. My SO and I consider our money entirely our own although we mutually invest in things for our relationship (housing, food, fancy hotel rooms on occasion, lol). Of course we are married to each other so we often end up talking about stuff like this anyway (i.e. “do you think this is too much for this?”), but generally we have agreed that we really only need to run things by the other person if we want to do something that significantly alters our financial landscape (like quitting a job or taking one that pays significantly less so that covering our shared obligations might become difficult). Do some of my friends do something completely different with their partners and think this is weird? Sure! And that’s fine because it works well for us and that’s all that really matters.
Anonymous
I don’t think I’ve ever asked my husband for permission before buying something, but I make more so maybe I feel entitled. Up to $2500 maybe? But it’s more of a collaborative process – I wouldn’t buy something like a car or house thing or big vacation without talking to him.
Anon
Sounds like you kno what works for you, and are only second-guessing yourself based on peanut gallery input. Carry on with your proven system. Ours is unusual, but works for us (20+ years married, finances still completely separate for complicated eldercare reasons).
anonshmanon
this exactly. Never change a running system. Since you have effectively been living together, it sounds like not such a big change right now. Adjust when one of you feels like you need a different approach.
Anonymous
Congrats op! Similar situ and my SO and I do not combine finances/accounts or officially vet major one-person purchases (but, we do tend to talk about them organically, which has rightfully avoided me buying a pelot*n when I don’t even like biking.)
Anon 2.0
I got married last year and we have been together 11 years. You have to do what works for you and what you are personally comfortable with. We were young when we met and went into the relationship with, well, not much., We chose to buy a house together before getting married. It worked for us. I personally am of the belief I could NEVER be engaged to and much less marry someone I have not lived with for a while.
We make roughly the same amount and split most things down the middle, and still do. We haves separate accounts and transfer money to a joint account for our share of the mortgage, utilities, etc. Because I am a weirdo who likes many accounts, we also have a joint account just for groceries, dog food, toiletries, etc. We have a budget, transfer that amount, and use that one debit card for those items. That is not for everyone but works for us.
Anon
I lived with my now-husband for 2 years before marriage and we didn’t have a joint checking account until we got married. I think it’s fairly normal.
Anonymous
i finally ordered a new laptop, yay! any favorite laptop cases or other accessories?
Anonymous
I haven’t used a case in years, YMMV depending on how durable your particular laptop is and how much you actually transport it, but mine isn’t scratched at all.
I would buy a sliding cover for your front facing camera for privacy.
Anon
My cases always come with the keyboard protector. If are capable of keeping yours clean without a silicone cover, you are a low-level superhero. I don’t allow food or drink anywhere near my office, nor do I have children, and yet filth magically appears somehow.
Curious
Oh yeah we used Splitwise when we weren’t married. Even for wedding expenses. It was great! And when and if you do choose to combine accounts, YNAB is a nice way to stay on the same page about spending while retaining autonomy. I don’t have to ask if I can buy a jacket; I do have to look if I’ve spent down the Curious Clothes envelope or not.
Curious
Absolute nesting fail. *Backs away in shame* :)
Senior Attorney
This made me *snort*
Anonymous
Congrats! Very refreshing. I went through this recently and got:
Case: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SR9F7GT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
External mouse: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SK1LBR6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Mousepad: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089Q4VYT9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
External keyboard: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-mla22ll-a-tkl-wireless-magic-keyboard-silver/4639101.p?skuId=4639101
Stand: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HBQSCM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Anonymous
Here’s a silly question that I’m probably overthinking. What are some good responses when people congratulate you on a work achievement / promotion? I’ve been replying along the lines of “Thanks, I’m very excited” to texts and messages, but what about when someone takes the time to reach out with email?
Anon
Same response works, I think.
Anon
If you will work together, I would give them a sentence about how you look forward to working with them in the new role/on the project/etc. (if applicable).
Anon
Why not the same response? I don’t think email demands a longer response unless the sender’s message itself is a lot longer.
Anon
Thanks! Hope you’re well.
Theory Suit Sizing - Reporting Back
I asked recently about sizing for Theory suiting, and just received the suit today (Etienette jacket, Treeca pants in Good Wool). Based on Theory’s size charts, I had ordered my regular sizes (2 jacket/4 pants). After trying on the suit – lovely fabric and drape! – the pants are slightly roomier than my ca. 2017 BR suit pants, and the jacket is slightly narrower in the shoulders and arms than my BR suit jacket. So at least in these sizes I’d say they’re true to size.
I actually ordered the suit because the perfect dress I’d found for a friend’s wedding wasn’t available in my size, but then a week later it was and now I’m spoiled for choice!
Lilian
I have a request for advice/threadjack. I’m a professor in a fairly conservative field who is also neurodivergent (technically, I have early childhood PTSD, but it looks a lot like high-functioning autism in many ways). For many years I’ve gravitated toward sheath dresses with a bit of stretch because they are very easy to choose and put on, and they travel well for conferences. A friend recently told me that they read as unprofessionally feminine or figure-flattering–not bodycon exactly, as they aren’t tight on me, and to be honest I had a hard time understanding her concerns exactly. She clarified that her concerns weren’t about the fit; they were about the dresses. I asked my sister, who said I had nothing to worry about, but now I am concerned. The stresses are like these:
https://www.cettire.com/products/lauren-ralph-lauren-gathered-detail-mini-dress-99105942?variant=39571860684913&gclid=CjwKCAiA55mPBhBOEiwANmzoQiRL7riK7OB3PEOG-Ya0AqIh2iQskDIf_srg026dJ3y2Vdp42r4r2BoCA1kQAvD_BwE
In fact I have a number almost exactly like this–none with a v neck or a wrap neckline, all a high neck. Is a dress like this workplace appropriate as long as it’s not too tight?
Anon
That style looks perfectly professional and appropriate!I am confused about that person’s comments, just as you are.
CB
Chiming in to say this person is being weird, you are absolutely fine. And if your academic field is anything like mine, you are the best dressed there.
Anon
Completely appropriate, that person is crazy.
anon
Echoing the others – that dress is perfectly fine. Ignore those comments!
Senior Attorney
Agree that it’s a great dress and your friend is rude.