Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Short-Sleeve Tweed Jacket
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A short-sleeved blazer like this one from White House Black Market is an item with pretty limited utility where I live in the Northeast. We have about 1-2 months per year where it’s neither so cold that short sleeves are impractical or so blazing hot that you’re taking off your jacket as soon as you walk outside. That said: We’re in that period right now, so let’s enjoy it, people!
This blazer from White House Black Market looks so chic. I would wear it buttoned up with some white trousers for an effortlessly cool look. (Also, am I losing my mind, or are these “blazers with shorts” outfits starting to look really appealing? I’m predicting that in 5 years, they’ll be totally acceptable as business casual!)
The jacket is on sale at White House Black Market and comes in sizes 00-18 and 0P-10P — it used to be $175, but is now marked at $104.
As of 2025, short-sleeved suits seem to be coming back — Ann Taylor has number of them, and this bright green tweed one is kind of cute.
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Sales of note for 5/13/25:
- Nordstrom Rack – Looking for a deal on a Dyson hairdryer? The Rack has several refurbished ones for $199-$240 (instead of $400+) — but they're final sale only.
- Ann Taylor – Suit Yourself! 30% off suiting (and 25% off your full price purchase, and 40% off sale)
- Talbots – 40% off entire site, plus free shipping no minimum!
- Nordstrom – Beauty Deals up to 25% off (ends 5/17)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything
- Boden – 10% off new women's styles with code
- Eloquii – $25+ select styles + extra 45% off all sale
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off must-have styles + extra 50% off select sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + extra 50% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Lots of twill suiting on sale! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Rothy's – Up to 50% off last-chance styles + gift cards give $100, get $20
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
I’d like to try a shirt dress that only has buttons to the waist (not all the way down). Ideally, a skirt ending just below the knee (I’m sort; everything is too long these days). Ideally, A-line skirt (not flounced or tiered, just with room for my hips and to walk briskly). As workwear. Does this exist? If so, please post links. Thank you!
Gap has a linen-blend shirt dress that might work but it is shorter – knee length at best
I just have my dresses stitched closed at the waist down by my tailor – same effect and way less option limiting.
I do this, too, although I sew them shut myself. It’s the first thing I do when I get a new dress so they don’t gape between buttonholes.
This is pretty close, but no sleeves if that is important to you: https://bananarepublicfactory.gapfactory.com/browse/product.do?pid=772828011&rrec=true&mlink=5050%2C12413545%2Cbrproduct1_rr_2&clink=12413545&vid=1#pdp-page-content
I sew, or have my tailor sew, button front dresses closed to the waist or thereabouts…I don’t like the pulling or gapping.
Hobbs always has some dresses like like. Filter: shirt collar will get you several.
Look the models Brigitta, Larina and Florian.
https://www.johnlewis.com/phase-eight-silvia-midi-shirt-dress-grey/p112460844
Phase eight, L K Bennet, Marks&Spencer, Hobbs, the UK brands that do great garden party dresses also do this style in office appropriate colours.
Love, love, love the look of low heeled slingbacks, but wondering if my narrow heels make them impossible to keep on my feet. Have tried on a few pairs but the back strap keeps slipping down, even with tightening the strap at the buckle. Anyone have a hack for this?
Sometimes a ball-of-foot pad keeps your foot ‘scooted back’.
Have you tried a half size smaller? For open back shoes, that works for me.
After trying all the tricks, I gave up. They are not made for my narrow heels. I used to get terrible foot cramps from scrunching up my feet to keep them on. Absolutely stupid.
I just think they aren’t a match for my foot shape. If they’re tight enough to stay up, they are cutting my Achilles in half.
get low heeled mules instead, there will be less to deal with
you might also try going to a cobbler, they could possibly make the strap tighter for you
I have found that in heels with open components (slingbacks, some sandals), I often take a half size smaller than my usual size. I think that, by foot length, the smaller size is my actual shoe size, but I size up to accommodate my wide forefoot and high arches. So when there is less connecting the front and back of the shoe, I need the smaller size to keep it from falling off.
I like this jacket, the fact it comes in petite, and where I live a short sleeve jacket will be useful all summer. I don’t love the super shiny buttons. Is there a way to tone the buttons down to something more matte or a bit darker?
I routinely replace cheap or tacky buttons on my garments. It makes everything look better and is an easy task for you or you tailor/dry cleaner
You can try using a fine sand paper and sometimes that works. It also isn’t that expensive to buy replacement buttons and have a tailor swap them out.
Where are you buying buttons theses days? I used to go to JoAnne’s but they are out of business now. And I don’t know any other sewing stores.
Etsy
I think my dry cleaner might have buttons on hand for this alteration. They certainly have single buttons so I presume they’d have a whole set. They probably wouldn’t have them onsite though so I guess you’d have to trust them to meet your description.
Wawak
I was looking up some old favorites for you and sadly learned that Tender Buttons has closed and M&J Trimmings is going out of business. But Mood Fabrics still exists! You’ll need to know the diameter of the buttons you’re replacing so the new ones fit the buttonholes.
https://www.moodfabrics.com/buttons/blazer-coat
That’s a great idea to replace the buttons, thanks. I could then also take the buttons off the back of the sleeves and potentially off the pockets as well, depending on how well the pocket flaps stay flat without them. Thanks.
I have a conference in Europe coming up. Think nonprofit donors – maybe not a full suit like pre-pandemic but pretty formal. I’ve been WFH for a while and basically have no business formal clothes. What are people wearing these days? I guess it’ll be good to have in general so I’m thinking of buying one suit and one work dress.
Which of these stores would be best? I really prefer trying on and buying in person
– Banana Republic Factory
– Gap (for dresses)
– Ann Taylor
– Marshalls
I feel like Gap is great for dresses but they seem too casual. BRF or JCF seem to be good for this but it is a mix; one or two items always seem good though.
Maybe this ties to the question yesterday about what is a work dress these days.
5’4″, size 10/12, pear shaped
Are these?
https://bananarepublicfactory.gapfactory.com/browse/product.do?pid=773098021&vid=1&tid=bfpl000035&kwid=1&ap=7&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21040716845&gbraid=0AAAAAD_AT8u3eGsoZR0BLvkTy4bfZWuGw&gclid=CjwKCAjw24vBBhABEiwANFG7y7ryUxofFKZB-RVPN_fRY_QrkH9FhsqH17ViavyDyMW8Fzslv-hi0BoCgGMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#pdp-page-content
https://bananarepublicfactory.gapfactory.com/browse/product.do?pid=870720061#pdp-page-content
Yes to the first, no to the second.
You might have luck going to an outlet mall and seeing what’s there. I haven’t seen a lot of dresses in store. They tend to be online. Of your list, Ann Taylor is going to be your best bet. I went into a TJ Maxx the other day and the pickings were slim.
A friend got some pretty good jackets from TJ Maxx so that’s why I was thinking of that. The kind you would wear with a dress or black pants. Like a blazer-and-slacks but not suit.
I was thinking that Ann Taylor seems to be the best bet. Stores don’t have the same “walk in and buy a default suit” they used to.
Most work clothes are sold online, I find it a fool’s errand to try in person. For your trip, I’d do a couple of blazers over dresses and pants with flats. Dress up or down with jewelry. Europe tends to be more formal, so stick with neutrals. If it’s your style, throw in a silk scarf.
For the dresses, I’m seeing a lot of dresses with pretty wide skirts. Are those work appropriate now?
That’s going to depend on your shape and personal style. Someone here once suggested Macys for a last minute suit. Target sometimes has some work options.
marshalls is hit or miss. last year i needed suits, went to to ann taylor, banana republic etc. stores don’t carry lots of styles or sizes unfortunately. i ended up ordering a lot and returning.
Yeah I may need to do the ordering and returning thing.
I checked and I do have a cream blazer, black blazer, and black pants. The black pants and blazer aren’t an exact match so I wouldn’t want to wear them together. I think I just need an a line dress in a non black/white neutral color. Maybe olive green since another commenter said not to go too bright.
Yes.
Where do you buy from online? Quince dresses have never worked for me. The same usual – Ann Taylor, Banana Republic?
Do you have a Jcrew Factory near you? They tend to have some work appropriate gear.
I would add J Crew Factory to your list.
I missed this before I posted above. Agree.
Inspired by this very rainy morning in my area: I need a new pair of rain boots and am looking for recommendations. I want to be able to wear them in both cold and warm weather, so no waterproof snow boots, please. I prefer mid-calf height rather than knee-high. Preferably under $200 but could go up to $300 for the right pair.
La Canadienne makes mid-calf waterproof boots that aren’t insulated that might fall in your price range on a “lucky sizes” level sale.
Hunter makes a mid-calf height boot, though the knee-high is the classic. I know they were super trendy for awhile but they are actually good quality; my current pair is around 8 years old and no cracks, etc.
+1 I love my Hunter Play Short rain boots
On the contrary, I found my Hunter boots leaked even when they were pretty new. They’re clunky with no arch support as well
What kind of boots are you looking for — rubber rain boots, or waterproof fashion boots?
+1 I typically just wear my pleather boots in yucky weather. Since I’m not purposely wading through deep puddles, they’re adequate for keeping my feet dry.
Rubber rain boots or other “weather” boots, not fashion boots. I want to be able to step in puddles with confidence instead of having to plan paths around them. I had Hunters as my pair before this and would consider buying them again. They did the job, but I didn’t love them, so open to alternatives.
If you’re commute involves walking, wearing my waterproof hiking boots rather than rubber rain boots has been a game changer. So much more comfortable.
I ordered some from Merry People, which has a lot of fun colors which make me happy on a rainy day – and neutrals are also available. Different styles and under $200. Definitely rubbery rain boots versus cold weather boots, but they hold up well for cold-weather usage too.
I’m in New England where the LL Bean duck boot or one of its many variations is the answer to this question. It lets you track through rain and mud with confidence and wipes clean.
ooh I do not recommend these for cities. That sole might be great in grass and mud but on a wet metal manhole type cover they have ZERO traction.
Look at Bogs boots–born in the Pacific NW, good for all wet and mucky conditions.
I love my UGG Keseys in PNW. They’ve been faithfully serving me for four years, still look great with minimal care and are extremely comfortable. Truly waterproof, toasty down to 40s. Buy a half size bigger.
Do you have non-sneaker shoes you could walk a mile in? With no socks? If so, pls post links. I need these shoes and through FAFA am realizing I don’t actually have them.
FAFO. A letter makes the difference. Ugh.
FAFA?
They’re sneaker adjacent, but sandals like Keens or Tevas would work. You could probably also do Birkenstocks or similar cork footbed sandals that would have enough support for actual walking.
Birks are really hard on my feet. I’d just do sneakers.
Birks
Rainbow flip flops
Sperry loafers
I do not; I’ve been over relying on sandals.
But I’d look for a D’Orsay type flat or low wedge from a walking or comfort shoe brand (or possibly from a cowboy boot brand which sometimes have good lasts for walking).
Nope
Tons – Sofft sandals, Born sandals, Cobb Hill sandals, Naturalizer Maxwell flats. Also some boots – Clarks, Vionics.
Birkenstock Mayari. I can also walk long distances comfortably in my Arizonas, but they flop around and slow me down. The Mayari straps hold the sandal closer to the foot so you can walk faster.
For winter, lots of boots are quite walkable.
I had a lot of pain in my feet and legs and I went to a doctor about it and they said walking long distances in Mayaris is really bad for your feet. Apparently something how your toes grip the toe strap when walking is unnatural and can strain your muscles and tendons. Anyway, just saying be careful. I never had any blisters and they were “comfortable” but really messed up my body.
Same, but with a pair of high-arch flip flops I love (OluKai). I can walk a mile or more in them, but I shouldn’t!
I think something with a backstrap might fix the toe-grip issue.
I have some Taos sandals I can walk all day in. They are an older version of these: https://taosfootwear.com/products/trophy-2
And different Naturalizer rubber soled flats over the years.
Cole Haan makes a bunch of oxford looking shoes that basically have a sneaker base. If slip on shoes are okay, both Eileen Fisher and Cole Haan make slip ons (I have had both) that I can walk all day every day in, with no problems.
Paul Green loafers with a thicker sole. I could do it in the thin sole but the thick sole are nearly as good as trie athletic shoes and as good as many fashion sneakers.
I have some Dansko loafers and oxfords. No idea what their current season selection is like, but sometimes they have shoes that look fine enough.
And apparently their clunky clogs are in vogue right now anyway!
Bikenstock Gizeh
Birks for me! I like the Gizeh style.
Espadrilles
Teva Sanborns. Pretty ugly but sooo comfortable- I walk for miles in them.
I really really wanted to love Labucq sandals, but they didn’t work for my feet. If they fit your feet they are supposed to be incredible.
The Sorel sandals are also popular, but they don’t work for my narrow feet either.
Sperry boat shoes, an older pair of Cole Hann loafers, Oofos slides, Clark sandals. I tend not to buy shoes unless I can walk a decent distance in them. A bunch of Noat shoes of various styles.
Bzees sandals. And I have difficult feet.
Just a mile? Most of my shoes fit the bill after they’ve been broken in. More than that, Birks and chelsea boots.
Skechers often make fancier looking sneakers (holiday sneaker, though I think it’s discontinued) and occasionally boots. They are great and unlike the kids versions, last a while.
Yes, Geox shoes–they are sneaker-adjacent but not quite sneakers. Most comfortable “work shoes” I’ve ever owned!
I missed the question yesterday about figuring out what part of your cycle you are in, and wanted recommend cheapie LH sticks. I like Easy at Home and Wondfo brand. Hold for two hours and dip a stick daily (preferably in the evening, but morning can work). When it turns positive, you will typically ovulate within 48 hours. Occasionally there can be non-ovulatory LH surges, especially as you approach menopause, so you can use temperature to confirm if you want.
(There are also other signs, like mucus, that will clue you in to ovulation and help as a double check to the LH stick. Especially if you don’t have to be precise for birth control purposes and are mostly tracking your energy, so it’s not a catastrophe to be “wrong” sometimes. I recommend Taking Charge of Your Fertility if you haven’t read it yet)
Someone last week mentioned using DPHue for demi? permanent hair color. I have never colored my hair but I have a lot of gray – and very scared to try anything. Would semi be the way to go? And would I go toward a color close to my natural darker color, or go lighter to be similar to the gray? What other options?
What does “a lot” of gray mean? When my hair was up to 25% gray I used a demipermanent box dye a few shades lighter than my natural color. The effect is basically turning the grays into highlights. At more than around 25% gray I started getting professional permanent color with highlights and lowlights. Demipermanent color doesn’t “grab” gray hair well enough to work when you have a ton of gray, and permanent box dyes give a flat appearance.
I have a little gray (individual strands in a small section) and use toner (demi permanent) between my proper root coverage appointments. It also makes my grays look like highlights for a few weeks. But I wouldn’t rely on this if you have big chunks of gray.
Yes, it works better if your gray is mixed in all over than if you have defined streaks.
Depending on your hair colour, henna can look beautiful. It actually looks better on grey than on not-grey hair.
What about embracing your gray and leaning into toning shampoos to lean into any gorgeous silver tones? I’ve had a lot of amazing women in my life rocking various amounts of gray (including full heads in 20s and 30s), who looked so amazing and glamorous! I absolutely adore seeing women confidently rock grays and think they look absolutely beautiful. Just a different perspective–there may be others who are admiring your “lot of gray” and you just don’t know it.
Maybe the color selection depends on which color, but I have had better luck choosing a shade lighter (like a medium brown) for dark brown hair (the darker shade can appear black).
I’m also a big fan of henna as someone else mentioned but it is permanent and you are advised not to also use traditional dyes with it/on the same hair. I’ve used the Logona brand with good results — the color is good & it’s conditioning. My friend with thin hair thinks it bulks up her strands.
My hair is on the lighter side of medium brown, and I have greys scattered throughout, maybe 15-20% total. I use dpHUE Gloss+ in “Dark Blonde,” and it does turn the greys blonde enough that it gives the effect of highlights, and it also adds a nice shine. It only lasts about 3-4 weeks, though (I shampoo my hair every 3 days or so). I like it but I get too lazy sometimes to keep it up as often as that.
I was theone who made this rec. I have gray strands interspersed throughout my hair, although it’s more noticeable at the hairline and temples. I go slightly lighter – medium brown, when my hair is medium to dark. It does turn the gray into highlights.
The nice thing about this is if you hate it you can wash it a lot and the color will go away.
Shopping help! Please help me find a petite navy or dark blue shirt dress that does not have a flared or a-line skirt. I would prefer a straight skirt. Sleeves or sleeveless is fine. Small print is also ok. Budget is up to $200.
https://www.whitehouseblackmarket.com/store/product/Cap-Sleeve-Utility-Mini-Shirt-Dress/570371780?color=1358&size=14&sem=pmax&utm_campaign=WHBM_PLA_GG_Markdowns_Pmax&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=xx17433949332&ogmap=MP-SEM%7CMP-PLA%7CGOOG%7CPMAX%7CMULTI%7CSITEWIDE%7C%7C%7C%7C17433949332%7C%7C&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17436920338&gbraid=0AAAAADpCxxUXqb2ZPyCKaKZG5dlVLTdYP&gclid=CjwKCAjw24vBBhABEiwANFG7y5WLDnGQw3chI82iyPl8IwtN8PbbdtEvzlc5ygXHh5x-IkanCNsE0BoCPU0QAvD_BwE&sizeType=petite
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/128315?page=womens-signature-camp-shirt-dress-button-front-womens-regular&bc=12-27-506213&feat=506213-GN3&csp=a&attrValue_0=1507&pos=15
https://veronicabeard.com/products/tabby-midi-dress-black?variant=44791360094379
I’m going to a singles mixer soon and could use some outfit help. I think I’m looking for a mini or knee length dress that’s casual but a little interesting. If you have suggestions for shoes and accessories, I’d happily take that too. I’m late 30s and short if that matters. Dating has been a total drag for a long time so I’m hoping a new outfit helps me feel a little better about going to this event.
No suggestions for an outfit (sorry), but solidarity in the drag that is dating. I totally understand.
Try the Anthropologie Somerset Mini Dress, very cute cut for the short girls and fun patterns.
If the sleeves on the Somerset overwhelm you, try the Rails Tara dress.
I just came back from a girls’ trip where we all took turns paying for things. Now it’s time to settle up (we use the Splitwise app for this.) I picked up the bill for one night when we got takeout. Most of us ordered an entree and a side, but one person wasn’t feeling hungry and just got two small sides, which amounts to $15 excluding tax & tip. If we split the bill equally it would be $40 per person. Should I ask her to pay the $15 or $40?
Did you split other meals evenly or by what people ordered? I would stick with what the group has been doing
Isnt the purpose of splitwise to be able to more accurately account for what people owe? You have already calculated that she owes less that half of what everyone else owes, why wouldn’t you be honest?
+1000 This is exactly what Splitwise is for.
“honest” is very much the wrong word here. Geez
If the tabs can be split by what people ordered, do that. As the person who doesn’t drink and often orders the least expensive meal, I hate getting stuck with a disproportionate share of the bill by a lot – $5 is no problem, but $10+ really gets annoying.
$15 because the difference is more than double what she ordered. It’s not like it’s 20 vs 25. $15 to $40 is a jump.
Definitely allocate the cost based on what people actually ordered if you can and it’s easy to do. However something like the delivery tip should be split evenly.
I’d say $15 plus her share of the tax and tip on her $15, plus an even share of delivery, taking this question in a vacuum.
But if the trip as a whole, people are generally dividing evenly because there are always times when different people are the lower-spend outlier, then stick with that.
This is really hard to answer in a vacuum. If everything else is being split evenly, then I usually split evenly regardless of who ordered what. However, if one member of the group does not drink, I take alcohol out of their share. Because some days someone orders the lobster and the next day they just order an appetizer. It evens out.
But the answer might be different if there is one person who routinely orders the least expensive option (often vegetarians or people on GLP1s), in which case I would try to do it by person if I can.
I always ask people for what they actually bought. She bought $15 worth of food.
We’re in a stretch of hot days here. Yesterday I wore a lightweight cotton t-shirt and because I’m a sweaty Betty, it didn’t take long for light movement at a volunteer activity to result in a lovely sweat mark across my lower back, which is embarrassing. I felt gross and damp for the rest of the afternoon, and the shirt didn’t look great, either. Would it look weird to start wearing sweat-wicking shirts with regular shorts for very casual occasions? I have linen tanks that I never wear because I don’t find the fabric that comfortable and can’t stand the wrinkled, messy look. In other words, I’m a hot mess but I don’t want to look like a hot mess?
Not sure how sweaty you are naturally, but if it’s really excessive, your derm can prescribe these wipes (Qbreza) that stop sweating. The side effects can be drying and annoying, but depending on how disruptive the sweating is, it might be worth it.
I think I get sweaty faster than the average person (have my dad’s genes, yay!), but I don’t have any reason to believe it’s a medical issue.
For outdoor volunteering I see lots of people in athleisure. Skorts, shorts, wicking tops, etc.
The uniqlo airism shirts for example would look perfectly fine.
That seems pretty tame to me, but I think wicking shirts still show wetness; they just dry faster. I don’t get why people are hung up about sweat though. If it is hot, you’re going to sweat. I would just bring something to change into if you are going to be doing something sweaty.
+1
Right. I’m having a hard time imagining being embarrassed by a sweat mark. Embarrassment is for when you actually do something wrong.
I think the sweat-wicking shirts look best with athleisure type shorts (like the Athleta Brooklyn style).
I avoid medium-color tees for summer for this reason though. Like, a gray tee will show every drop of sweat, while an icy light blue doesn’t darken as much when damp.
This may be part of the problem, as I tend to prefer wearing colors that are medium in saturation. Probably should go really dark (black, navy) or very light.
I have learned through painful experience that dark tops will show salt outlines once the sweat dries. (I’m dabbling in deodorant without antiperspirant for the first time. I’ve found one that actually really stops odor if used correctly–Surface Deep–but am alarmed to discover how sweaty I truly am.)
+1. I only wear very light or very dark tops during summer. Patterns also help mask it. Cotton is notorious for staying wet so unfortunately you picked the worst combination.
i was just shopping the talbots sale and they have a number of shirts labeled cool max and airknit – maybe some of those? you could also do that gauzy cotton fabric that is very in right now, at least that dries quickly.
years ago here someone recommended this weird thing that goes under your bra strap – maybe this might help? you can just (privately) remove it when you’re done with the sweating. looks like amazon has a bunch of “moisture absorbing bra liners.”
https://www.amazon.com/Wick-Em-Womens-Moisture-Management/dp/B007XEFUNI/ref=asc_df_B007XEFVFA/?th=1&psc=1
Fellow sweaty bish here: there are tons of wicking shirts that would look perfectly fine with regular shorts – assuming you mean something like denim/chino/khaki-type shorts. 32 Degrees has very affordable ones; there’s also the golf brands, Eddie Bauer, GapFit, etc.
And if you’re a size large I’ll take your linen tanks :)
You don’t need to be embarrassed by a normal bodily function. Everyone else will be sweating in that weather too. I swear sometimes people here forget we’re all humans.
Help me figure out how we are going to eat dinner on this trip with kids.
We are traveling to Bar Harbor with my in-laws in a few months. We will have a 4 year old and a 9 month old. We are staying in a hotel that provides breakfast. The room has a mini-fridge but no microwave, etc. 4 year old is currently hit or miss in restaurants. He often finishes eating before we do, and then we end up having to entertain him, etc. We have been working on this, but since the baby currently likes to take a cat nap in the middle of dinner, we are not really going out to restaurants much right now. SIL that planned the trip has two kids– one of whom does not do well at restaurants (special needs and has an allergy).
I am actually very much looking forward to this trip… except for the dinner part. For lunch, I think we will do a lot of picnics. There also seem to be a few grab and go sandwich places near the hotel. For dinner…. I’m honestly not sure what to do. On a previous trip, MIL made a lot of reservations for 5 pm, which meant the reservation kind of took over our whole day (DS still took a long nap), and it was too early for him to be hungry. (It was 4 pm our time– we’re on Central time). I’m afraid though that if we don’t do reservations, we’re going to be stuck with long waits with little kids… and just will end up making DS a PBJ in the room, which is fine, but then I don’t know what we do as adults.
Any suggestions for how to handle this? Bonus points if you have specific restaurant recommendations. Fwiw– DH and I wanted to stay in a VRBO for this reason, but MIL vetoed this because she “didn’t want to cook.” Trip is for various milestone birthdays in the family. (Otherwise, we would not have tried to do this with such young kids.)
Let 4 year old have a PB&J in the room (or on the go) before your dinner reservation (and I’d move the reservations to 6 or 6:30). You could even buy uncrustables once you get there and keep them in the freezer/fridge, or just keep a loaf of bread/PB/jelly in the room. Then if he’s hungry at the restaurant he can have a side (Fries? Veggies? Fruit?), milk, dessert, etc.
I’d bring a ton of picture books, sticker books, coloring books, and even small toys that he can use while you eat at the restaurant. I’d also bring an ipad and headphones so if he gets really antsy, the adults can still enjoy their dinner.
I have a food allergy kid, and we just bring her food with us to the restaurant. But I don’t know what the other special needs are, and they might be profound enough that someone should get an Airbnb instead of a hotel so there’s a kitchen.
Get takeout and eat it in the hotel breakfast room.
Bar Harbor has some lovely restaurants, but it’s honestly not the most child-friendly place I’ve ever been. Mine were a bit older the first time we went and we eat out frequently, so we may have had a little better luck though. Maybe try and get a lawn reservation at Jordan Pond House one of the days, as the kids can run around a little. Or drive over to Northeast Harbor and go to the Nor’Easter Lobster Pond – kiddos can nap on the drive (it’s at least 20 minutes) and there’s a little lawn area where you could walk around if they need to get up. (Can you tell that my solution at that age was to have an option where one parent can get up and take kids outside to wiggle?) Another option is to alternate nights where you go out with your MIL and let someone stay back with the kiddos for PBJs or pizza. Maybe meet after for a walk to the ice cream parlor.
Really? I’ve traveled a lot with kids and I think that region of Maine is about as kid-friendly as it gets. Relative to other national parks, there’s so much to do with little kids who can’t hike long distances, and the vast majority of the restaurants are casual and have outdoor seating.
Other parts of Maine definitely are (I love Portland), but I just find Bar Harbor tough with super little kids. It’s such a packed area in the summer, the sidewalks are tight even without a stroller, the restaurants are small inside, there’s one playground that’s walkable to downtown. I personally wouldn’t take my kids at that age out on the water (I didn’t trust them on the boat deck and they get motion sick) and they can’t bike on the carriage roads yet. Once they get to be 6+, I think you’re right, but the toddler/pre-K age is super tough there IMO.
Hmm. Most of the casual restaurants there have outdoor seating, especially post-pandemic. We go every year, including many years with kids 0-5 and I never had any issues with strollers. You’re right about playgrounds but there’s so much kid-friendly nature stuff (beaches, tidepools, lakes, easy walks, museums with touch tanks) and several big park areas that we never missed playgrounds.
+1 to 12:07. Love bar harbor and have been several times with young kids.
Agreed. OP – Bar Harbor is super casual and kid friendly. There is lots of outdoor seating and plenty of green space, even in town. Plus other kids at basically every restaurant. You will be fine!
Make your own dinner reservations at a time that works for your kids. Your MIL is an adult and can shift her meal schedule more easily than a preschooler and a baby. The SIL who planned this knowing that her kids can’t eat at restaurants is responsible for figuring out their dinner (like feeding her kid beforehand and providing activities for the restaurant). If they aren’t willing to play ball then you guys just split up for one meal. No one’s going to enjoy the evening anyway if there are whiny or hungry kids.
What’s wrong with making reservations, but later? Like at 6:30 instead of 5? Who wants to eat at 5? Your MIL just assuming little kids want an early dinner?
As far as occupying the 4yo while others are eating, bringing a bag of quiet activities, as others have suggested, is very common.
for your 4 year old – ours liked a lot of little snacks before/after dinner. i forget the specifics (he’s 13 now) but we definitely asked for olives and cherries from the bartender if we were desperate.
you also may not be familiar with the rule: screentime limits don’t exist on vacation. so bring an ipad and headphones to the restaurant if that will help.
Bring food for the 4 y/o. What does he eat? Bring that.
Eat somewhere that has a patio and bring stuff for kiddo to do.
FWIW, I would go for a very casual fish and chips sort of place for dinner. Ideally near a playground :)
Sounds like you have a few months to practice being in a restaurant with your 4 year old
Feed the 4 year old something beforehand. At dinner, see how long the 4 year old can get through dinner without a screen, and when they get restless, give them a phone so you can finish dinner in peace. It’s ok for them to play a couple games on the iPhone so you can enjoy your meal.
PS – I have a 10 and 12 year old who have grown out of this and do not look at any screens during dinner now.
> It’s ok for them to play a couple games on the iPhone so you can enjoy your meal.
No, it isn’t.
So many adults are on their phones at dinner that there are literally phone stacking games but a 4 year old can’t play a memory game with the sound off?
It’s not like she was suggesting the kid watch youtube at full volume.
It’s also not okay when adults do it!
Do you have kids?
We used phone/iPad strategically at restaurants and while traveling long-distances when kiddo was between 3 and 5, in situations where kid had finished their meal and we couldn’t get up with the kid and go outside or otherwise keep them busy. This was about the only time they got screentime, and it was a good solution for our family.
Now they read or do sudokus.
I bet people judged us in restaurants with the kid watching a cartoon silently.
Yes, I have kids.
Lol, I knew there’d be one. That’s why I had to add that I raised perfectly healthy, communicative kids. God forbid parents have one moment of relief.
OP may not want to and that’s fine, but it’s not the world’s biggest deal to do it.
OP: We are not anti-screen at this age– especially towards the end of the meal. However, recently, DS has started to ask to watch stuff with the sound on or will want to change shows, etc., so the screen isn’t even that helpful.
Agree with others that a screen is not a permanent solution– nothing bothers me more than seeing a group of elementary school age kids who are all on screens at dinner!– but 3-5 is a different beast.
For other diners, a game with headphones or the volume off is much less disruptive than a kid who’s yelling or running around the restaurant. I am a strict parent with a well-behaved child who’s always been able to sit quietly in restaurants, and I still don’t judge anyone who gives their kid a device to keep them quiet in public because I understand that a lot of it is beyond the parents’ control. The parents I do judge are the ones whose kids are disrupting other people’s meals. Those parents need to pacify or remove their children.
With six adults and four kids, can you rotate through who is taking care of the kids each night? Two adults are watching the kids and having a casual picnic dinner to feed them PB&Js while four adults go off to the restaurant and enjoy some kid-free time. I think if asking the kids to handle restaurants every night for the whole vacation is too much.
Also, is it MIL’s or FIL’s milestone birthday? I would cut them some slack if she doesn’t want to be responsible for hosting a special dinner party for ten out of a VRBO rental kitchen. Sounds like my personal nightmare.
Assuming your SIL’s kids are older, I’d ask her what she’s thinking of doing (or how she sees the group handling the whole thing). IIUC it’s a trip with her nuclear family, so she knows the lay of the land with them, and she’s also been navigating this with her kids for a while so probably has some ideas and experience you can draw on.
Otherwise, on trips like this with my in-laws, we’ve tended to show up and play it by ear. We’ve been the only ones with kids for a few years (though that’s now changing) and so have basically learned what everyone else’s plans are and then either joined or made alternate plans for ourselves based on what would work. It’s always been too hard to try to plan in detail in advance, though I do find it helpful to have some kind of universal backup plan (pbj in hotel, fast food drive through, granola bars, cheese sticks, whatever) in mind so I can put it in action if need be.
Are black patent leather pointed toe flats dated or timeless? I think pointed toe is so flattering but the patent gives me pause.
What shoes do you wear with a dress for a night of dancing in the summer? Block heel sandals?
Help out an unfashionable millennial who wants to be comfortable but is (still) not ready for sneakers. I am short and athletic/curvy.
Pointed-toe flats are in, but I’m not seeing a lot of patent leather right now. The black leather is the real problem unless you’re wearing full-length black pants. Tan or nude-for-you is better.
I wholeheartedly disagree that tan/nude-for-you is better than black at this moment in fashion time. Black shoes with lighter colors and daintier outfits is totally a thing. Think Alison Bornstein’s “wrong shoe” theory.
Timeless.
This. The Valentino rock stud flat is a best seller after all these years for a reason.
I don’t know whether they are fashionable or not, but for events with dancing I am still wearing the block-heel version of that minimalist sandal with a narrow strap at the toes and an ankle strap that’s been around for the past decade or so.
The black patent flats I vote timeless, though I wear them now with sheer socks peeping out of wide-leg pants, vs. my look 10 years ago of with black tights and a pencil skirt.
Dress and dancing? Girl, give sneakers a try! I’m also seeing a TON of cowboy boots on 20-30somethings this summer, but just looking at them gives me secondhand stank boot, so not trying this trend for myself.
Are they wearing the cowboy boots without socks?!? Mine would get stinky and fall off if I tried that. With skirts and dresses I wear them with ankle socks that don’t show.
I have a pair of white leather western-style boots that I wear a TON. They’re pretty simple and the shaft is just above my ankle. I got them on mega-clearance but they’re similar to the Franco Sarto Vivian boots.
My favorite stain stick is proving hard to find — do you have a favorite? The trick is that I want it to be something that can sit in the laundry for a few days, not something that can only be applied within 5 minutes of washing it.
I have some kind of Oxyclean gel stick
Try just liquid laundry detergent
A friend of a friend suffers from BPD and is recovering from postpartum psychosis. I won’t get into the specifics but suffice it to say that FoF did a lot of very hurtful things, many with longterm consequences, to a lot of people, including friend, while she was sick. Not relevant to my question today, but for anyone wondering, the baby is safe. Friend has been in therapy to help cope with FoF and the aftermath, but she leans on me quite a lot. Most people in her life really hate FoF and I’ve always been more neutral.
I’m really struggling to be neutral now. It’s not even because of what FoF did while sick. It’s the lack of accountability now. Her attitude seems to be, well I was sick so no one can be mad at me for whatever I did while sick even if you’re still dealing with the consequences of “her” actions; that was a completely different person. She also refuses to try to unfck some of the messes she made, like false reports to authorities. I hesitate to express an opinion because I don’t really know anything about BPD. Am I off base to think that she should be approaching this differently and make some attempt to make amends or set things right? I don’t know if AA’s 12-step program has any relevance to BPD/PPP but I know making amends is a pretty big part of that process.
If she made false reports she should definitely be correcting them. Big picture though, this isn’t your circus.
If she experienced psychosis was she responsible for her behavior? People are found not guilty by reason on insanity for very serious crimes all the time. And it sounds like it was not just PPD but psychosis?
I think the issue is if the episode of psychosis has ended. So if you call in a false report that you genuinely believed was true at the time, you were acting in good faith; you were just deluded. You were doing the right thing from your perspective at the time! But afterward, do you not call back and say that you were in a mental health crisis in order to limit repercussions for people affected?
I don’t know how recovered this person is though.
Mental illness doesn’t mean you get a free pass for being a jerk. It’s just a recognition that certain things are harder for you, and the appropriate thing to do to handle it is try and make adjustments so you can work around those difficulties. Making amends and taking responsibility is important, and BPD and postpartum psychosis don’t preclude anyone from saying sorry and acknowledging how they’ve hurt others.
Tl;Dr your thoughts are correct, FoF is not doing the things that would help her be a good friend/parent/human.
+1
We had a family member experience completely unexpected psychosis and another family member was big on the line “your mental health crisis wasn’t your fault, but it is your responsibility.” There’s a lot of truth to it.
If people’s feelings were hurt by what this woman said in the throes of psychosis, they should probably just get over it. If, on the other hand, lasting physical damage was done to someone property or anything in that vein, I would expect some amends.
I am writing that line down now – it is really powerful.
Is it their responsibility? Your brain just betrays you sometimes. This is sickness, not acting out.
You may not get to keep your spouse, your job, or your friends, because there’s always fallout, but I don’t blame people for what they do during psychosis. Not sure what the amends are.
As for what amends might look like – I mentioned the false reports because that is an example of something concrete she could do. She has retracted false reports only when confronted under oath. She is not affirmatively or voluntarily retracting any false reports.
Example – a friend has a rescue pitbull mix, which is allowed in our area. FOF called animal control and claimed the dog bit her baby. The dog has never met the baby; they weren’t even in the same state at the time of the alleged bite. Dad refused to talk to animal control to confirm no bite; he was dealing with kind of a lot at the time and now he’s written off everyone FoF knows. Animal control has tried to follow up with FOF but she won’t return their calls. Dog owners have told their side to animal control, animal control has dropped it. But, the dog owners are obviously concerned about what happens the next time there’s a report about the dog. Will that be his second strike? Will they kill the dog? I think they’d feel a lot better if FOF would pick up the phone and say it never happened.
Obviously there’s no medical documentation to prove the dog bit the baby & medical evidence that woman had psychosis. If they are genuinely worried about this, have they talked to a lawyer?
Also does the dog really deserve to get multiple opportunities to bite people otherwise it’s unfair — that sounds blatantly ridiculous and like their dog must actually be a real problem.
@2:45 What on earth is wrong with you? The dog was just a victim of the psychosis. Nothing to indicate it’s a problem other than your breed prejudice
@3:04 no, the question is why are they worried about it biting someone “again” that should not be a real concern
The dog never bit anyone! “Again” means a second report (for example if she reports this again!).
In the sense of ‘it would be the responsible thing to deal with it’, I think yes. It’s not your fault that you got sick, but you need to address the consequences. Just like the hailstorm or the rear ending wasn’t your fault, yet you need to sort out the consequences. You can’t responsibly leave your roof damaged, and you shouldn’t leave your relationships damaged. There is no law compelling you, but it’s just the right thing.
What a hard situation. It sounds like FOF sought treatment and is healing. Accountability for past behavior might take much longer–she has a lot to unpack for her own wellness and this might not be something she’s really ready to address.
It’s also embarrassing to admit what happened during psychosis. Making amends requires dredging up some truly unpleasant things she probably doesn’t even remember and that people will judge even harder the second time around. I would still make amends for anything truly serious or harmful, but I wouldn’t insist on receiving a personal apology for each and every insult.
Yeah, I agree with these comments. While I also agree with the “it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility” philosophy, I think it can take some time to get there while recovering from something as traumatic as psychosis, and a genuine apology for things you truly don’t remember is hard. I’m sure it does feel like those things were done by another person and it will take some time to come to terms with that and actually be able to make amends.
This isn’t just psychosis, though–it’s entangled with BPD. The BPD could actually have caused a lot of the behavior that she’s blaming on psychosis, and could be making her act like an a-hole now that she’s recovered from the psychosis. People in the throes of psychosis don’t generally have the wherewithal to plan and execute false reports to authorities. I would completely disengage from this person and encourage Friend to do so as well.
It’s definitely possible to plan and execute though perhaps uncommon depending on how debilitating the mental illness is.
Well, no amount of handwringing you do about FoF is going to make any difference, so I would just focus on supporting your actual friend and I would treat the situation like a romantic relationship — don’t say anything too bad about FoF because Friend might change her mind in the future.
With psychosis it’s possible she may be having trouble untangling what is real and what’s not (especially if very recent). Delusions seem real in the moment and can remain kind of like memories even when recovering. Of course she should try to set things right, but does she have the capacity or health to do so right now?
Bipolar? or Borderline personality disorder?
I have personal experience dealing with people who have suffered psychosis. Even a good person who is worthy of a continuing relationship may be somewhat hard to deal with for several months after the psychosis ends. The person will be cautious about engaging with anyone outside of their immediate family during this period. When things stabilize the person will make amends for anything they did to harm others, but it’s not likely that they will have behaved in such an intentionally hurtful way as FoF to begin with. On the other hand, a bad person with a personality disorder will use the psychosis as an excuse for harmful actions, whether they were purposeful or caused by the psychosis. The appropriate response to such a person is to permanently sever the relationship.
My sister is BPD and I’ve just reached the point of accepting her for what she is. We are not super close. She blows things up periodically and some stuff can’t be un-done. I love her, I help when I can, but it’s her life. My mom is choosing to let my sister ruin hers, I am not.
Thankfully, she made the choice not to have kids because that would add another layer to the whole situation.
I was with FoF until the lack of accountability. I suffered from horrific perinatal depression and did my best to make things right afterwards.
I also have two close relatives with bipolar disorder. One tries as a person; the other is just a terrible human who happens to have BPD.