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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Allegra Gathered-Neck Sleeveless Blouse

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A woman wearing black pants, brown sleeveless top, and black sunglasses

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m loving the neckline on this blouse from Modern Citizen. In a world where bare arms are more acceptable than they used to be (but still, know your office!), I would pair this gorgeous number with my favorite midi skirt for a lovely spring outfit. If you want to skew a bit more formal, this would also be a gorgeous option for wearing with your favorite suit. 

The top is $128 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XS-XL. It also comes in three other colors. 

Sales of note for 4/24:

270 Comments

  1. Great idea to include reliable vendors of skin care and makeup. Some platforms don’t vet those products well enough against fraud.

  2. We have been interested in moving to a specific neighborhood for a few years. Homes do not go on the market there often. Recently a great property was listed at a price significantly higher than any comparable sales. We discussed with our builder and agent and made what we all thought was a strong cash offer. The sellers came back at full price, signaling they weren’t open to negotiating. The market has slowed here so that was a surprise. It was also a surprise that I’m having such a hard time with our decision to walk away at that price. I really like this property and wonder if we made a mistake over a small amount of money in the long run (~10% of the completed project value). Our builder and agent said it’s not worth the higher price and I trust them as they are both friends and knowledgeable about the area, but we are the ones that will be living there. Any words of wisdom from those of you who have been in a similar situation?

    1. Is it too late? Homes are emotional and investments, but it’s okay to want the former too. My advice is have a strong personal point of view, your agents and friends aren’t the people who live with your decisions, you are.

      1. I am in agreement with them that it is priced way above market. I’m just not sure it’s worth it to me to lose it over that amount of money. We’ve been looking a long time and I’m tired of the search.

        1. Buy it. Homes appreciate over time. So you don’t make money on it for a while, so what. You live somewhere you love.

          1. Yeah, we overpaid because we fell in love with a flat in the same neighbourhood as my husband’s cousins and aunt. It wasn’t massively over but it’s a bidding system in Scotland so all offers go in the same day, and they typically chose the highest. The extra money was worth it to me to be close to an elderly relative.

          2. Counterpoint: there are some whispers in economics circles that homes are headed for a pretty big crash in 10-20 years as the Boomers downsize and die. Our population is set to shrink in the next few decades, and a lot of homes will be coming on the market.

          4. I will live in my current house until this one is completed. I don’t mind waiting a while but I don’t want to wait 10-20 years for boomer houses.

          5. I meant for the counterpoint, it’s insane to wait 20 years on a theory. Especially one countered by the overall housing shortage in this country. OP, buy the place!

          6. Yeah, it’s obviously worth what people are willing to pay for it. If it’s any semblance of a forever home, and you can swing it, then buy it.

          7. that’s a silly counterpoint to me, 1 – people said the same thing to me, that it was a terrible time to buy & the housing market was about to drop, when I bought in 2017. Waiting decades to live in your dream neighborhood over a 10% difference in price is such a waste!

          8. I didn’t say to wait 20 years; I said to not assume that it will appreciate in that time.

          9. I agree with this 100%. There is also some time/money/stress value to being done with your home search.

        2. We overpaid but we love our home and neighborhood. It isn’t the fanciest or most sought after but just what we wanted. You should also factor in the reduced stress from not house hunting and think about how nice it will feel to be moved.

        3. We overpaid the assessed value by about $20K ten years ago (about 27K today).

          It depends on what you want and how the value is assessed. The assessor was neutral on the house backing onto a greenspace/park as some buyers don’t like that but it was a huge plus for us and a big reason we wanted the house.

        4. I would go back and buy it if it is still an option. It is fine to overpay for a house that you really want, especially since it does not sound like it is a huge amount of money.

    2. Is this a teardown situation? I don’t understand why a builder would be involved with the purchase of an existing home.

    3. I think if you really want a place, you at least have to meet the asking price. There’s just something about not meeting it that sticks in buyers’ heads as “bad deal.”

      1. That’s fair, but my agent and builder were adamant that this property was overpriced. It’s probably 20% over anything I’ve seen in this neighborhood ever sell for.

        1. Is this a teardown situation or a vacant lot? Thinking some people, pained at the idea of their home being razed, may want to dissuade ‘teardown’ buyers with a high price that makes it unappetizing to start from scratch.

          As far as whether to get over that and buy it anyway, what’s it worth *to you*? Is this a forever home situation where the pain of feeling like you overpaid will disappear over time?

          1. Yes, it needs to be torn down. There are wild animals living in it. They have priced it like it can be updated. We would be building what we expect to be our forever home.

          2. With this information, it sounds like you are not dealing with sane or reasonable sellers. Bad sellers will cause a lot of headaches and might blow up the deal entirely.

            What you choose to do is ultimately up to you, but if you walk away, maybe it will give you some comfort to know that this is just the tip of the iceberg with them.

          3. They will come down on the asking price. Sellers are struggling with the fact that homes aren’t worth what they were four or five years ago.

          4. No humans have lived in it for at least a few years, maybe longer. It is a very non traditional building style that I don’t think would appeal to most people. My husband said it looked like a mental institution when we pulled up. It’s being sold as is so they must know it’s not move in ready despite how it’s priced.

        2. Are the other homes comparable? Same BR/BA count? Identical age? Amenities and features? Is this neighborhood a rising tide?

          I fully agree that homes are both emotional and investments, and it’s ok to lean in to the former if it’s otherwise something you can afford and you plan to be in it for a long while (homes in good locations generally appreciate!). 20% above any other truly comparable comp is a big gap, don’t get me wrong, but if you can afford it… yolo!

          1. There are only handful of close comps but the others were actually in fixable condition and they were priced much lower than this one. The most recent one sold in the fall. There is not a single comp we can find near or above their list price, even if we look at larger homes.

          2. Also, the fact that you are buying it for the lot and the neighbourhood as opposed to the house itself makes me double down on my comment above about it potentially being worth it (to you), even at a slightly inflated price.

            We also bought our house for the neighbourhood and huge lot (which don’t come up for sale very often in our area either), and did major renovations to the house. We likely paid “too much” for the renos, so functionally are in the same situation as you at the end. But after a couple of years, our house has gone up in value, we love our neighbourhood and it’s all a wash.

        3. If your agent and builder have such a strong opinion on the price, don’t they also have advice on what the seller is likely to do and how long to wait them out?

          1. Yes. They do not recommend I raise my offer and they said I should just wait until the seller comes back to us. I am thinking that approach is going to lose us the house.

    4. We just bought a house for slightly under list, after it sat on the market for awhile. I still wonder if we could have gotten it for even less. However, similar to you, it is in a neighborhood where renovated houses do not often come up for sale and there are some intangible items of value about it (backyard views, backs to a park, located on a dead end street, TONS of playmates for my kids). We plan to be here for awhile so I suspect my very few regrets will fade quickly, and we’re lucky that I honestly don’t miss the money we spent to get it. I think that’s what you need to weigh. How uncomfortable will the price difference make you, both financially and emotionally?

      1. This is helpful to hear. I have been thinking about this as a business transaction but maybe I just need permission to approach it differently. The amount is not nothing, but it will not have a real impact to our overall finances.

        1. It is still a business transaction. You can make a perfectly rational decision to pay more than the market says the property is worth if it’s worth it to you.

        2. Just going to again say do it, especially if it doesn’t impact your finances. I have many things that are probably overpriced but bring joy, make this one of those things.

        3. I think you should meet their price and buy it now. When’s the last time another appropriate property came up for sale in that neighborhood, and how much have construction costs gone up since? You’ll probably spend at least that 10% difference by waiting and it sounds like it’s still affordable to you.

    5. Do they have any competing offers? When we purchased our house we made a strong cash offer and they countered at full price no negotiations. I walked, they didn’t have any competing offers. They came back a month later to accept our original offer as they were so overpriced and had sat so long they couldn’t get traction in the market. If they’re countering and have competing offers that’s one thing, if they’re countering to counter I’d probably listen to your builder and agent, but let them know you’re open to discussing again if they change their minds.

      1. They did not mention any other offers, only “interest” which of course means nothing.

        1. So they don’t have other offers. I can’t blame them for wanting more money; however, your best bet is to wait it out.

        2. What kind of real dollars are we talking about? Is this a $300k tear down or a $700k teardown? We have both in my community. For a lower all-in check size, I’d probably just pay it.

          1. FWIW, my grandparents’ house sold for $2.4M and was promptly torn down. (It was a beautiful 5 bed/3 bath Colonial, about 3,000 sq. ft.)

            This might be a million-dollar tear-down, depending on the area.

        3. Sit on it. Let it play out. At that price and hassle, it will sit then the price will come down.

      2. Given what you’ve said here, I’d be patient. It sounds either like they don’t really want to sell or that they believe they’ll get a higher offer. If it’s the first, then they’ll cause problems the whole way through. If it’s the second, then the market will let them know that’s not the case — it sounds unlikely that anyone will pay the price they’re demanding, so just wait.

        1. How long is reasonable to wait before we put another offer in? I was thinking by two weeks in they should be starting to see the issue. I will of course ask my agent as well.

          1. They’ll hold out at least 30 days, probably more like 60-90 if they’re as stubborn as they seem. Do you have any intel on whether they really need to get rid of the property?

          2. I’d do your research on the Seller situation. You can find out a lot in the public records to see how motivated the Sellers are – do they own the property outright, is this the kids selling it, has the property been through probate, do the Sellers own a lot of other property, is the asking price their break even price on their debt on the property. In my neighborhood, we have a couple houses/lots that have been on the market forever (compared to normal), because its the heirs selling it, they are unmotivated, and just waiting to see if anyone will pay their asking price.

          3. Oh, I’d wait untl they lower the price, which will likely take up to 30-60 days.

            But you could wait two weeks and go back and be very honest about how your people agree that the asking price is a fantasy price (said professionally, of course) and then reiterate your offer.

          4. You could do this. It’s also like hoping the exact pair of shoes you want in limited production will go on sale at the exact time you want them.

          5. I doubt they will lower the price in two weeks. You’re probably talking more like 2-3 months.

          6. Is it even habitable? You mentioned wild animals living in it, which could be anything from mice in the garage to gaping holes in the roof with racoons running amok through the interior. If it’s closer to the latter, does the jurisdiction even allow them to sell it as a habitable structure? That info could be used to convince them to lower the price.

    6. Are they serious about moving or testing the waters? My parents downsized from a highly desired neighborhood but they had multiple offers under their price before getting a full price offer. If they hadn’t gotten full price, they wouldn’t have moved. No mortgage and no rush on their end for health issues so they weren’t interested in negotiating.

      I saw another comment that said it’s a teardown for you, and I agree that original owners who don’t want the house torn down are often less flexible on price. Home buying is emotional for both buyers and sellers. It’s not always logical.

      1. That was my first thought–the sellers are not in a hurry and want to maximize the selling price.

      2. Sellers are the heirs and I get the impression this home meant a lot to them. They think it is special.

        1. You may wait years for them to decide, even at the right price. I’d offer what you’re OK with and if not accepted, move on. There’s a teardown in out-lot in my community that the heirs have been sitting on for *25* years. . . we put in an offer in 2003.

        2. oooh ok. So they really really don’t want it to be torn down, aren’t motivated by an immediate need to unload it, and are being picky. Seems like you either pay the premium to get exactly what you want and end the search, or gamble on waiting them out, which may take… months or years.

          1. Time is also money. Construction isn’t getting cheaper, starting to build in the spring and summer gets you closer to your end goal too.

          2. That means they’re emotional sellers, which makes them harder to predict. Agree with Cat – can you not afford the house or not afford to lose it? Sounds like the latter, in which case just do it.

        3. Oof. Don’t even mention tear down to them or they won’t sell to you at all, regardless of the price you offer.

          1. +1 Did your realtor convey your intentions to them, even by comparing it to other tear-downs? Because the ship may have sailed at this point and they will not be willing to sell to you anymore.

        4. I would avoid it for that reason. You’re assuming that they won’t pull crap halfway through the sales process. They are emotional and aren’t making logical sense; let someone else deal with that mess.

    7. Do it. I was in a similar situation many years ago. It was 100% worth it to overpay and I am so grateful I did not walk away from what really was a small amount of money as compared to the price of the house.

    8. Are you getting a mortgage for the purchase? You may have issues if the appraisal comes in under the purchase price. Obviously not a concern if it’s an all cash purchase.

    9. I mean, part of buying a house is being willing to pay more than anyone else offering and more than the sellers want the house.

      It sounds like you can afford to overpay, want this location, and given how wonky the construction market is getting, have a reason not to wait around for another property to come on the market.

    10. I live in a neighborhood where people sit on derelict properties for YEARS. It may be lack of agreement between owners. It may be sentimental attachment. Or it may be that they don’t actually need the money immediately and are just going to sit on it until the market gives them what they want. It sounds like they are the last group which means they probably aren’t going to come back at a lower price. They’re not paying for the house or any utilities and they don’t have to relocate somewhere else. If this represents their inheritance, they want the highest number possible so they’re probably not going to budge. Their number is their number and you either have to meet it for the location or wait until something else comes along.

  3. Speaking of gross or not gross habits, how gross is it not to regularly mop your floors? I see people doing it multiple times per week and I just don’t see the point because they don’t stay pristine long. We don’t wear shoes inside and I vacuum regularly because I hate dust but I guess I’ve just never found mopping to feel all that effective for the time spent. Maybe my technique is bad or something but it never feels like it gets the floor that clean anyway, and even if it does, people immediately resume walking on it.

    1. I use a swiffer mop 1-2x/week, but also no shoes in the house, and no pets or kids. It doesn’t take too long, but people probably don’t consider that “real” mopping. I feel like I can tell the difference between my recently swiffer’d floors vs when I go a while without.

      1. Well, if you’re smearing dirty water around, you’re not washing your floor correctly.

    3. So, like many things – the answer is ‘it depends’. It depends on your floor type, your family, your climate, etc. Many laminate floors are damp-mop only whereas full tile or cement you can literally hose off (and they do in some countries!). Beware that lots of people have caused major damage watching ‘CleanTok’ type videos that don’t match their houses’ needs.

      For us, I mop my kitchen floor at least once a week because it gets gross. It’s also where our main point of chaos entry to the house is and has ceramic tile floors and I have kids. We use a steam mop for it now, but I like to go old school hands and knees every few months and a full grout scrub once a year. We have a cleaner come and she mops the full house once a month (hardwood in the rest of the house) with just a quick mop.

      1. Man, CleanTok’s obsession with using Tide powder drives me nuts. Lady, you’re stripping the floor, not cleaning it!

    4. I live alone. Maybe once a month? Only hard flooring is my kitchen and bathroom. I vacuum/sweep weekly.

    5. Our cleaner (every other week) mops our whole-house wood floors. In between, we vacuum only, and spot-clean with a damp rag if we spill something wet. We walk around in socks or barefoot so we’d notice if our feet got dirty, and they don’t.

      (FWIW – no kids, no pets, don’t wear ‘outside shoes’ in the home.)

      1. This. We do have a dog and 3 kids but no shoes. Vacuuming is daily at a minimum. Sometimes we’ll mop in between but that usually just results in kids with wet socks.

        1. Daily at a minimum? I cannot imagine caring enough (let alone having the time or energy!) to vacuum more than daily!!!

          1. Usually a through vacuum on weekend mornings and with 3 kids and a dog running in and out of the house all day and getting snacks, even without shoes or if someone forgets to take off shoes, it’s common to need another vacuum in main areas after dinner. During the week mostly daily except when dog is shedding or if something is spilled.

          3. By “vacuum” do you mean a quick scoot around the dining table with a Dustbuster? Otherwise that is…. a LOT of vacuuming.

    6. I mop when the floor is visibly dirty (usually the entryway and kitchen) or all over when we’re having company. I sweep often and we try to be a shoes off household. If I had pets or young kids I’d probably feel differently.

    7. Our cleaner mops or does something to the floors weekly, and I am never inclined to do more than that.

    8. We only mop a couple times a year. We spot clean with a damp rag if needed. We have rugs at the entry, don’t wear shoes inside, and sweep several times a week. We neither eat nor perform surgery on the floors. We are comfortable not disclosing or cleaning schedule to guests, none of whom have ever expressed any sense of ick at the actual appearance of our home.

    9. I vacuum and mop my kitchen floor as part of my weekly cleaning routine. Two adults and cats. I use an O’Cedar spin mop or a steam mop. I will sweep between weekly cleanings if needed. Sometimes I’ll do a quick steam mop. We’ve had issues with ants in warmer weather so I like to keep the floor relatively free of crumbs.

    11. Shoes off, but I must be a particularly messy cook (and we have white and black tile in the entry and kitchen) so it definitely needs moping weekly. My husband steam mops once a week, and then does a vinegar mop once a month (takes much longer to dry, but looks shiny and clean). It’s currently overdue and so grubby looking.

    12. Shoes off household, but we have kids and a dog. Hardwood floors with some rugs. We vacuum every day. We mop the kitchen floor most days because my dog and kids tear through there. We mop the bathroom floors weekly, when we clean the bathrooms. The rest is basically when I look around and think, “Oh, we should probably mop.” And then I might or might not.

    13. I don’t know how anyone with a job has time to mop every day. We mop once a week, with a sponge mop and diluted Mr. Clean on ceramic tile and with a terry mop and wood floor cleaner on hardwood. Mopping gets the grime that sweeping and vacuuming don’t touch.

      1. Right! Even the people vacuuming once a day feels excessive (unless it’s a robot vacuum)

      2. Raises hand: There was a point in my life where I was a single mother with a kid, a dog, a cat, and a full-time job as a litigator. I mopped my downstairs (laminate) and vacuumed my upstairs (carpet) every day unless I was ill. I am down to mopping less often (maybe twice a week) but I have a big area rug now and I still vacuum daily.

        But I LIKE mopping. It is easy, mindless and I can see immediate results. I find it relaxing.

    14. Very infrequently. We sweep constantly, but mopping doesn’t actually accomplish much. It’s cleaning theater at best.

      1. It depends on how you are mopping. Those wet Swiffer pads are worse than cleaning theater–they make the floor ickier.

      2. Yeah, if I mop it’s a whole ordeal of multiple buckets of fresh water and a sense that the mop itself is just spreading a film of filth rather than doing any real cleaning. Other than wiping up spills or mud in the moment, I don’t wet clean the floors often. I don’t find them to be particularly dirty when I do.

        I honestly prefer to vacuum the floors and then scrub on my hands and knees with a whole pile of clean rags, a bucket of hot water & vinegar, and a laundry basket. No double-dipping the rags – as soon as one starts looking dingy, it goes into the laundry basket and I get a fresh one. I don’t use soap in the water because then I would need to rinse the soapy residue off the floor, and no way am I going over all the floors twice.

    15. It’s me and two little house dogs. The dogs go out into my backyard but just for a break not to run around. It’s a shoes on house, except that for when I take off work clothes I switch to slippers or barefoot unless I’m going to be doing chores. I like clean floors, mop about once a month, and it’s enough. I sweep the hardwood and vacuum rugs weekly.

      1. Same here, almost to a T. Two adults wearing shoes in the house, zero babies, 2 little dogs. No one is eating off the floor or licking it.

        Sweep/vacuum hardwoods (no rugs) weekly (maaaaybe biweekly depending on appearance), mop 1-2x mo.

    16. This time of year? Every day because the dog tracks in so much mud. Thinking of putting a baby pool at the door because wiping her feet doesn’t get it all!

    17. I want to do it 1 x a week but can’t find the time for that, so it is about every 2 weeks. I do vacuum at least 1 x a week and spot clean as need.

    18. I spot clean occasionally with a wood spray and paper towels, but otherwise stick to sweeping and vacuuming my wood floors.

    19. I spot clean my hardwoods if there is a mess but I also don’t wear shoes inside and don’t have kids so it’s mostly vacuuming. I also can’t use water on my floors so it is wood polish and a cloth. I try to be better about steam cleaning my kitchen floor though.

  4. As of last year I now get awful spring allergies. My eyes are red, puffy, watery and unbearably itchy for 2+ months. I take a daily antihistamine and use antihistamine eye drops and it’s still miserable. Went to the allergist last year without any success.

    Any tips on surviving the spring?

    I’m in the mid Atlantic FYI.

    1. Not a doctor, but I find that sometimes I have to take twice of a “once a day” met that rimes with “Raritan.” Daily showers, hair washing, and more frequent bedding changes. Oddly, being outside is easier than inside (so I can camp, but during the week in an office and a home with central air, have tissues in every room).

    2. Is it worth going back to the allergist or at least to your PCP to let them know that what you are doing is simply not enough? Is there another, more highly recommended allergist you could try? Has your eye doctor also weighed in?

      There are a lot of options and sometimes some real troubleshooting to do with allergy control. Sometimes the oral antihistamine is causing dry eye and making our eyes more sensitive and we can switch meds or treat dry eye (e.g. with Bruder compress). Sometimes one oral antihistamine is not enough and we need to take one in the morning and another one at night. Sometimes we start reacting to the benzalkonium chloride in the eye drops and need to switch to one of the more expensive preservative-free formulations. I’m not sure if your eye drops are antihistamine only, or if they’re also mast cell stabilizing.

        1. I don’t have an eye doctor (20/20 vision and no other issues). Do I need an ophthalmologist for this or just an optometrist?

          2. ophthalmologist not optometrist

            But a decent allergist should address this as well. Kinda surprised your other one was so bad.

    3. Have had bad seasonal allergies all my life, tried pretty much everything including injections from an allergy specialist. None of it worked except for my current routine: I use daily nasal spray (generic for flonase) plus antihistamine eye drops (Pataday, the higher strength version OTC). I start the nasal spray in late Feb to build up levels as advised by my doc. If I wait till the grass/trees bloom, the routine does not work so well. We had a special filter installed on our HVAC which was pricey but helped tremendously. If the HVAC system is not an an option, I’d get a stand alone air purifying device and use it in your bedroom or other room you use a lot and keep the door closed. Good luck!

    4. Blueair filtration units in every room have helped the allergy sufferers in my household immensely.

      1. This is a good point about air filters!

        Showering and changing clothes when coming home helps some people I know.

        Adding Ziena glasses or similar to a mask when outdoors can be worth trying.

    5. Right there with you. And I just remembered that I forgot to take my decongestant this morning. Ugh.

    7. Try NasalCrom nasal spray. It’s a mast cell stabilizer, not a steroid or an antihistamine, so it works through a different process. YMMV, but it really helps my eye and nose itchiness.

    8. I’m over in woo territory with this, but I find that the less dairy I have the better my allergy symptoms are. I’m in a very biodiverse temperate area and the allergies are bad. One year only I managed to be completely dairy free for a couple of months ahead of and then through allergy season and it is the only year of my life I did not have spring allergies.

      1. This is making me imagine Great Lent improving a bunch of people’s spring allergies.

    9. In addition to everything that has already been suggested (mask/glasses outside, showering and washing hair before bed, Pataday and oral antihistamines), here are some things that help me:

      – Switch antihistamines if you feel they are not working. I alternate between desloratadine and levocetirizine (each taken for a few months, until I feel a change in effectiveness). Loratadine and cetirizine, the original versions, do not work as well for me
      – Keep a cooling gel eye mask in the freezer/fridge to give your eyes some relief. The cheap version of this is a frozen washcloth.
      – You can use OTC saline eye drops (I use single doses) to rinse out your eyes at night or whenever you’ve been outside. Put them in the fridge for some extra cooling – so nice if your eyes are itchy and burning. You can also do nasal washes (either netipot or just a saline spray, deliberately used), as the eyes and nose are connected.

    11. Do you know what you’re allergic to?

      My allergist said I could use an antihistamine 2x daily if I needed to. A year into immunotherapy has helped. I also have 3 air purifiers in my house and I use the highest HVAC filter.

  5. What appliances do you use or not use while you’re sleeping or out of the house?

    Personally, I will run anything – I am in the office 5x a week and I prioritize fun in my life (currently single and childless – now is the time) so okay taking the risk.

    1. I also prioritize fun to a huge degree but won’t run anything while gone except crockpot.

      1. When do you do laundry/dishes? I’m just rarely home and awake for 3+ hours at a time

        1. I WFH now so that makes it a lot easier, but we run the dishwasher after dinner when it’s full from the day (it’s usually done just before bed but we don’t sweat it if it’s still going or we had to start late). Laundry is often a late afternoon/early evening thing. We’re not “12 loads of laundry a week for a couple” people like some here so it’s just not something that really interferes with life.

          Also, we’re home more than you in general – a lot of our fun is local and just out the back door. All bets are off during ski season, though! I love nothing more than an early wake-up and a late return to make the day feel full, although we’re doing more overnights now that we have a kid.

      2. Also, just putting in a plug for how much fun you can still have as a mom. Not all of us are in the “give up your hobbies” camp!

        3. I don’t know how a mom can have a job and hobbies unless she also has hired household help.

          2. Pretty easily, especially once they kids are past the baby phase.

            The demands of motherhood ebb and flow. Did I go skiing with my infant? Obviously not (among other things I was too newly postpartum to be thinking of skiing). But ski school starts at age 3. Does travel with a 5-year-old look different than travel other adults (or with a 12-year-old)? Yes. But it is just as much, if not more, fun.

            – Signed, Mom without household help who still had a job and hobbies and interest

          3. That’s my comment you’re responding to and we do not have any household help, nor family help. But I will say that having a supportive partner and a flexible work schedule are HUGE. I think I would find it really challenging to have hobbies outside of the house (i.e., not reading or knitting) if I had my former long commute.

          4. This shows a lack of imagination more than anything else.
            Signed, working mom with no hired help (unless childcare counts) and tons of hobbies, at least two-three of which I partake in multiple times per week. My partner is super helpful at enabling this.

          5. Of course a mom can have a job and hobbies! Especially once kids no longer babies. I do think a flexible work schedule helps immensely though.

          6. Neither of us have “big jobs” or long commutes. We are truly equal partners. This is the true key.

            We live in a close in suburb in a “smaller” house (it’s not small, it’s nearly 2500 sq ft) with a “smaller” yard (still big enough to play in!) (but walkable town!). We aim for all housework to be done in ~15 mins/evening + ~1 hour on weekends with all 4 of us pitching in. I’m sure most people here would be horrified by my housekeeping, but it’s tidy and clean enough for my standards.

            Easy but still healthy dinners (sheet pan chicken and veggies most nights). I don’t buy anything that can’t go in a washing machine or dishwasher. I do grocery delivery from Walmart – so groceries, household goods, replenishing of school supplies or sports stuff, socks, basically anything we’d need in 1 delivery + supplemented by the weekly farmers market (a 10 minute walk).

            Right now we only do rec activities for the kids (2nd and 4th) and those are walkable from our house.

            Basically, my motto for all things house and maintenance is “KISS”- keep it simple, stupid! Owning less really helps here too – I wouldn’t say I’m full on minimalist, but I’m a mindful consumer and we just have less stuff (especially for kids who will outgrow everything soon).

            After dinner we put 2 people on kitchen duty and 2 people on “rest of house” duty for ~10 mins. Kitchen people put away leftovers, load/run dishwasher, wipe counters and if needed take out trash or sweep the floor. Non kitchen people do a quick tidy of the common spaces. If anything needs to be cleaned up, they’ll do this too. We also have the kids to a 5 min quick tidy of their rooms before bed (layout clothes for tomorrow, pack backpack, pack up anything needed for after school activities, laundry in hamper, clean up whatever they had out). On weekends we rotate vacuum/sweep/dust, kitchen, bathrooms and yard work. I set a time for an hour and what’s not done is not done (and the adults will do at a later time). My kids are learning how to do cleaning tasks with our help – they might not be perfect but they’re learning! Low standards are the answer here – if my kid misses a spot, then so be it. Adults do the laundry, it’s 50/50 who folds, and kids put theirs away. Everyone handles their own bedroom (and the adults do their own bathroom) – but we only vacuum/dust bedrooms 1-2x a month. We change linens weekly – they throw them in the washing machine Saturday morning (when we do the cleaning routine). We don’t do chores, just this rotation (and pitching in elsewhere when asked).

            We do a date night or something with friends (sometimes just adults, sometimes whole family) at least once a week. I usually see a friend another time a week too. I still play in a soccer league, and my husband plays 9 holes many weeks – with occasional 18 holes here and there. We also like to involve the kids in our hobbies – hiking, biking, skiing, the beach, eating out, crafting (me), going to sporting events, reading, music (DH), gardening. We both coach kids sports, which we both really enjoy, but isn’t a hobby. We try to do 2-3 family activities a week: movie night, game night, outdoor activity, museum, etc.

            Basically, we wanted to devote as little time possible to the mundane stuff and set up systems that work for us to achieve that, leaving more time for family time, time as a couple, and hobbies.

          7. “Basically, we wanted to devote as little time possible to the mundane stuff and set up systems that work for us to achieve that, leaving more time for family time, time as a couple, and hobbies.”

            +1. Set up the systems, hit run, and enjoy life more.

    2. The only thing I usually run overnight is the dishwasher, but that’s not because of fear of mishap, more that I dislike dealing with clothes in the dryer that have set-in wrinkles from being left in a crumpled ball for hours.

        1. We have a Speed Queen pair that is 20+ years old and doing great, so I will take the trade-off in bells and whistles!

          1. Speed Queen FTW. Same on the trade offs, plus with the SW set I can get a load all the way through and done in an hour.

    3. Dryer only. My apartment once flooded because the washing machine overflowed in the unit above us and the tenant was oblivious.

      1. This exact scenario happened to me. The people in the condo above me started the washer and went to bed. Luckily for me I was sick and up late, on the couch watching TV, and happened to wander into the kitchen and saw the water coming through my ceiling!

    4. All of them. Until the thread yesterday, I never thought twice about any of it. Maybe now I will.

    5. Anything. I own my home and maintain my appliances. If something bad happens, I have money to handle it. I’m not going to inconvenience my life over something with low odds.

    6. I try to avoid using anything. That’s partly because I used to have household pets and didn’t want to leave them alone to deal with any situation that could arise, so it became a habit.

      I will go outside when it’s just the dishwasher or crockpot or wash machine that is running though (laundry is downstairs so the odds of noticing a problem just because I’m home are very low; I’m also not hanging out in the kitchen monitoring the dishwasher or crockpot). For some reason going in the yard or on a neighborhood walk feels fine when getting in the car and being across town feels worse? I wouldn’t actually stop one of those appliances because I decided to go out, but I just usually don’t plan my day that way.

      1. Also, this is kind of silly, but hearing a machine in the background makes me feel like I’m being productive even if I’m reading a novel, watching TV, or working out (and all my gym equipment is the basement with the washer/dryer).

        I also kind of like the white noise of the dishwasher at night. Though I just saw the reply about a dishwasher with a 4-5 hour cycle… I don’t think I have any appliances (aside from that crockpot) that run for more than about an hour and twenty minutes, so that’s probably a factor too!

        1. Reading a novel or working out IS productive! And watching tv can be good, needed rest!

      3. That is what I do, too.

        I avoid running the dryer over night or when I’m out of the house, but I’ll let the washing machine or dish washer finish its job when it’s already running and I need to leave. I would not start it knowing I’m leaving right after.

        We’ve put a multi-hour roast in the oven and went for a neighborhood walk for 30-60 min. I would not drive across town if this was in the oven, but maybe being “close” to the house makes me feel like it’s safer when I could see a fire? (That is not rational, lol.)

    7. I won’t cook something while I am out, but anything that cleans is fair game.

      My clothes washer regularly runs 100 minutes per load. My dishwasher takes 4-5 hours to do a tough wash cycle with drying. My dryer is newish, well maintained, and can’t possibly be more risky than the furnace and hot water heater that both run automatically at all hours of the day and night.

      2. Wow, what is your dishwasher doing? I’ve had five fairly new dishwashers in the last 12 years (I’ve moved a lot and replaced one in our most recent house) and they’ve all taken 90-120 minutes to run a normal cycle. I’ll run it when I’m leaving the house for an hour or two, but not overnight or if we’re leaving for the day. My sister destroyed most of her kitchen when hers leaked over night. Had to replace most of the cabinets, the floor, some of the appliances and insurance was such a hassle that it took 6 months and many days off work to get the work done. If she’d caught it sooner (i.e. hadn’t run it overnight), the damage wouldn’t have been nearly as bad.

        1. My new Bosch is at least 3 hrs if you do a full run, steam dry, etc. Without the steam they come out soaking wet.

          1. My new LG will run long like that if I use the dry cycle, but only 90 minutes if I don’t. If I open the door when the load ends, everything is steaming hot and very wet but the moisture almost entirely evaporates in about 5 minutes as the dishes cool down. The dry cycle uses a ton of electricity.

          2. My Bosch takes 2 hours, 48 minutes with the dry cycle and there is still some water left on the dishes.

    8. I’ll run anything. The only thing that stresses me out a little is the oven, but I’ll still leave it, if it’s something like a low temp all day braise

    9. Grew up in a house where Mom’s anxiety meant unplugging every appliance whenever we left (she still does this when she visits in my kitchen – like I don’t want to reprogram my coffee maker each day). As an adult, I have thrown caution to the wind in spite of her. I won’t leave for a weekend with the dishwasher running, but beyond that I’ll leave the washer, dryer and dishwasher running if I’m going to the grocery store or out to dinner.

    10. I usually make sure I’m home or in the yard if I’m using the oven … usually.

      Washer, dryer, crockpot. And dishwasher are pretty much exclusively used when I’m not home or overnight while I’m sleeping.

    11. I don’t run the stove, microwave, toaster, hair dryer, curling iron, space heaters, or electric blankets while I am away from home. I will run the stove while out in the yard, but make sure I have a timer with me so I don’t burn whatever is in there. Anything else is fair game regardless of whether I am home or away.

      I’m not going to sleep with the stove on unless I have a timer with me, and I’m not talented enough to microwave, toast, or do my hair while I sleep. I do not sleep with a space heater running; I treat those like candles.

          2. So is mine, but if I’m simmering a pot of chili or something, I’m fine going out to sweep the patio, check the mail, and chat with the neighbor while it goes. I don’t keep anything flammable nearby, so it’s not like a towel is going to fall into the flames and combust just because I’m in the yard.

    12. I’ll run about anything. I keep my appliances maintained, and I just can’t worry about some of this stuff.

      1. This kind of response comes up a lot and I’m going to push back that taking basic precautions is the equivalent of “worrying.” It would be like saying “I don’t wear a bike helmet because I just can’t worry about head injuries.” I’m not “worried” when I put on a helmet – it’s just part of the safety routine! Same with clipping in my seatbelt or putting on a life jacket. It takes ZERO brainspace.

        1. I can put my bike helmet on my clothes dryer next time I start it before work if that helps calm your anxiety.

          1. Starting laundry when I’m home and not when I’m not home adds ZERO anxiety to my day or anyone else’s. I can see how it would be really hard to handle day-to-day things if that does cause you anxiety, though. You have my sympathies!

          2. 12:39 – I think you meant to reply to 12:31. I’m 12:37 and don’t have appliance anxiety. I’ll run those suckers any time the electrons are flowing. If something is going to blow up it can do that just as well when I’m gone as if I’m there to witness it.

          3. Not who you’re responding to but I get it. Laundry needs to get done; everyone’s schedule is crazy. It would be one more thing if we couldn’t start laundry on a Thursday after work because somebody has soccer in a half hour and they’ll be starving after so we have to start it later that night and if we can’t go to sleep while the dryer is running because it’ll start a fire or leave it in the washing machine because that’s “gross” I think it’s a bit of brainspace taken up by that planning. I think it’s unkind to call this anxiety. It’s just one more piece of scheduling detail. Didn’t we agree there is a mental load associated with that kind of thing? Maybe you can recognize that takes some brainspace.

        2. Well wearing a helmet doesn’t inconvenience my life or take extra time or brain space. Being overly cautious about appliance use does.

          I also am probably lax about life jacket wear compared to many here.

          1. I can absolutely promise you that having a regular routine of starting the dishwasher when I’m done with dinner takes no brainspace at all. It’s completely on autopilot. Unlike the actual cooking itself, which requires me to take a very active role and stand over the stove stirring stuff, all I do is push a button and…walk away.

          2. See, when I run the dishwasher after dinner (as I do almost every evening), it’s running while I’m out of the house and/or asleep.

        3. I don’t see how this takes zero brain space. If I only run appliances when I’m home/awake, that takes a lot more planning/thinking about when I can run something and how I’ll schedule other plans around when I’ll be home.

          I really like not having to dedicate any time to thinking about when I’ll run the dishwasher. I just do it.

        4. People here: I vacuum multiple times a day and never run an appliance unless I’m home and cook from scratch every night and helicopter my kid and work 60 hours a week.

          Also people here: I’m so burnt out and my marriage is on thin ice and I don’t have energy to work out or to see friends or for hobbies.

          2. Who was saying they cook from scratch every night? People have been posting either about their weekend meal prep or super easy freezer meals or whatever to avoid exactly that.

        6. To me it usually seems more anxious to insist it’s absurd to take minimal precautions for easily mitigated risks, like just acknowledging risk is too anxiety inducing so it has to be pushed away and mocked?

          1. Exactly this – those posters are saying they have anxiety about easily avoiding low-risk, high-consequence events (fire from a dryer burning down your house) so they just shove it down and don’t think about it at all. Some of us don’t have anxiety about that. It’s more “Ah, nice to be home from our trip. I’ll start the laundry now.”

          3. 1:29 – And then there are those of us who really don’t have anxiety about doing laundry while we are out of the house AND who have explicitly rejected the premise that it takes zero mental energy to only do laundry while we are home and awake. Some of us truly don’t give a shit. My spouse and I even joke about seeing the dryer vent steam as we are pulling away from the house in the winter: is that smoke or just steam? Guess we’ll find out when we get home later!

          4. I am not the least bit anxious about the “risks” of running appliances. I pretty much exclusively run them while I’m not home or asleep. It’s just easier for me to run the dishwasher overnight, cook dinner in the crockpot while I”m in the office, or throw in a load of laundry on my way out the door. In fact, the wash cycle is the perfect length for me to throw it in and then go for a run. I get home and my laundry is clean – I throw it in the dryer and head out to run errands.

          5. You act like we’re against running these appliances when we’re home and/or that it’s easy to avoid running them when we’re not home.

            Many of us are saying it’s easier for us to run them while we’re not home and that’s why we do so, not because we’re anxious.

            The ONLY thing I think about when doing laundry/dishes is convenience and only running full loads. Sometimes that means I”m home, but more often it means I’m away or asleep. It’s just whatever works better for me.

        7. Yeah, I’m one of those people who doesn’t generally run appliances overnight or when I’m out of the house, but it causes me no worry or anxiety whatsoever. This is partially because I spent a lot of my life living with roommates or in apartments where we didn’t have have a dishwasher or in unit laundry or shared it with lots of people so I just never got in the habit of leaving laundry in the machine. It’s already so much easier to have these in my house and not have to share with anyone that I have no problem finding time to do laundry when I’m home and awake!

    13. I live alone so do 1-2 loads of laundry and 2-3 dishwasher loads a week. I also live 3 blocks from the office so I often go home for lunch. My routine is to start the washer and dishwasher right before I leave for work. At lunch I’ll change over the laundry and start the dryer and unload the dishwasher. After work I”ll put the laundry away. It works perfectly for me!

  6. Advice on making a graceful professional exit?

    I’m looking to make a pretty big career jump from public to private sector. I’ve been in discussions with a loose plan to move around the end of the year. This isn’t public yet.

    Well, part of why I felt like I could leave is that I have two great managers on my team who could 100% handle everything I do. One in particular (let’s call them Jamie) handles a really niche area that requires an obscure set of knowledge and a lot of ‘grey area’ decisions and is GREAT with it. Because Public Sector, the positions immediately below Jamie are empty and their remaining team handles the admin pieces but not the ‘grey area’ stuff. Jamie just announced that they’re leaving for a promotion elsewhere and there’s going to be a real void.

    Any advice for how I handle this transition and bringing on somebody new without telling anyone that I’m leaving and pretty much going to hand it off after 6-9 months? I’ve already taken the transition as the opportunity to organize all our historical decisions and documents, but a lot of it is really a judgment call between two options.

    1. Sounds like you are feeling guilty about leaving? Feeling like you “could” leave because of other team members? Stop that! You can always leave.

      As far as hiring during a period of uncertainty, I’d frame it up as growth opportunities for the candidates. Like, there’s been a recent departure up the chain from me, and that’s provided both need and opportunity for more junior people to take on more sophisticated work and be ready for advancement.

      1. Not guilty, more like ‘I need to make sure I don’t burn any bridges because part of what makes me so useful in the private sector are my existing professional relationships and it is in my future self’s interest to make sure that the ship stays upright’.

        I like the idea of growth opportunity framing, thanks!

    2. If you have multiple open positions on your team and a manager who is leaving, why do you even feel the need to justify bringing someone new? Fill a role, train them, put in whatever minimum notice you are required to give at the time it is necessary, and be gracious to everyone during your notice period. It’s that simple.

      1. Probably overthinking this, you’re right – I wasn’t clear but the managers work for me. I’m the director with multiple managers under me – out of those managers, one is leaving. I would be hiring somebody to come in and take on the leaving manager’s role and leave partway through their training.

        1. The fact that you oversee all these empty positions is all the more reason to fill one, not less. Unless you think the company would be better off with no one at all in your department?

          1. It’s public sector, so the empty positions are outside of my recommendations of what to fill… I’m just afraid of my departure now being seen as ‘leaving high and dry’ and would burn the bridges I need to maintain.

          2. Leaving for industry ESPECIALLY if it’s the industry you currently regulate will burn bridges. I’ve had a lot of colleagues go to industry and they don’t have the sway or relationships they think they have.

          3. You maintain those bridges by holding up your end of any contractual obligations and general societal norms. Organize your work, give appropriate notice when you are ready, and leave necessary instructions, contact info, and current status updates in writing where someone can find them. That’s how you make a graceful professional exit.

            Making a professional exit does not mean you need to manage your former company’s unreasonable expectations about employee loyalty or your former colleague’s feelings about their workloads because the company has not filled empty roles in a timely manner.

            Regardless of your timing, graciousness, planning, and preparing, you cannot guarantee no bridges will be burned if the place you are leaving is unreasonable. Don’t take on the burden of trying to totally prevent that, just take reasonable actions a reasonable person could be expected to do on their way out.

  7. Sorry for the TMI. Every once in awhile, I get a welt where the bottom edge of my underwear on one side touches my body. It is a little painful, lasts for about a week and then slowly goes away (like a zit, but it’s bigger). Does anyone else get this and how do I avoid it coming back?

        1. Agree it sounds like a boil. I get them occasionally along my bra band, and find using Hibiclens in the shower helps it go away much quicker.

    3. I have gotten this specifically when I’m doing a lot of Spin biking while wearing cotton underwear under leggings. It was a nasty ingrown situation for me and the things that helped were ditching underwear during spin, showering and using glycolic acid toner on a cotton pad on my bikini line, and switching to running more/spin less.

      But also – could be a lot of things, might want to see a doc.

      1. As a rower, I feel very strongly about going commando under leggings (regardless of my workout activity). It’s wild to me that people wear underwear (especially cotton underwear!!!) while working out.

        1. I have to wear (wicking) underwear under leggings or the leggings creep up into uncomfortable places.

        2. I find commando workouts incredibly uncomfortable. Hairs poke out, things pinch and rub, leggings don’t always stay where they belong, and they don’t always stay opaque. I very much prefer cotton undies while working out, especially if I’m doing anything sweaty. Synthetic is a sure way to swamp butt for me and merino is out of my price range.

    4. Use head & shoulders shampoo as a bodywash in that area. It’ll take care of it and help prevent.

    5. I agree with seeing your doctor. It might also be: Hidradenitis Suppurativa. Mine appears the same way and has been quite treatable with antibiotics as needed, especially if I can begin treatment very early. It is difficult to overstate how life-changing my diagnosis was. Even one of the bumps is incredibly painful if untreated. Unfortunately I haven’t had any luck with ways to avoid it, and every few months I get a random recurrence. Still, having a treatment has been great.

    6. Could you have a latex or silicone allergy? Elastic is often covered so contact doesn’t cause a problem, but seams can have raw edges and if it’s pressed into your skin all day long it could cause this.

    9. I used to get those often, and it was particularly bad a few summers ago. I was concerned it was HS, which can get worse with time. Consulted my dermatologist who I think did give me a topical solution to apply after using a specific body wash in the shower (Cerave Acne maybe?). I did two other things at the same time:
      – laser hair removal – not necessary but there was some talk about how it helped HS and I decided I’d rather spend the money than take the chance
      – switched to only silk/moisture wicking underwear. I still have some cotton panties around and man do I feel the difference when I work out or it’s a hot day.

      It’s been about 3 years and I haven’t had any since, so here’s hoping some combo helped.

  9. How do you organize and keep track of the work you delegate to your team?

    I’m a shareholder attorney who works in two primary practice areas with teams of paralegals and associate attorneys. It’s a retail practice, so we have a lot of matters at one time. I have good systems in place for keeping track of the overall status of the matters and my tasks. However, I have always struggled to keep track of the work that I assign to others (mainly associate attorneys and paralegals who have longer deadlines). That way, I can follow up appropriately. Let me know your best tips.

    1. Completely different world, but in tech we use a tool like Trello/Monday/JIRA. Every task gets a card and an owner, and then you can filter and see which cards have been assigned to who. They’re also literally in columns for what their current status is.

      1. What OP is looking for is project management software. The cards in columns are a Kanban board, which is one method of project management.

    2. You can either buy project management software or go with a spiral notebook and/or planner. Personally, I rely on the low tech option. Spiral notebook. Monday morning is spent organizing what you need to do that week, what you need to assign out, what you need to follow up on and on-going WIP. Then you keep updating that list throughout the week, and review the prior week when you start on Monday morning. Full page daily planners also work since you can assign tasks each day as reminders to yourself.

      1. I like low-tech options too, but the benefit of a software tool is that the entire team can access it, update it, see it, and get automatic reminders.

    3. Many organizations use a software tool for this. My marketing team used Microsoft Planner. It’s way better than a spreadsheet or something because you can filter it in different ways and it’s easy to see things at a glance. The tool will also send alerts to other team members when they are assigned tasks or other reminders. I felt like it was very intuitive to use, but there are many other options out there. If your company already uses Microsoft, it might seem like an easy add-on that doesn’t require much research.

    4. I organize my to-do list by cases and then under each case, what needs to be done with current status which includes work with other people. Eg need to get client documents on widget project status — Junior drafting questions and will circulate by Friday 3-13

  10. Suggestions for a name for a male dog that are NOT food/food related? We can’t come up with anything we love and dog is coming home this weekend…. Dog’s current name is the name of a close relative so we can’t keep it. Dog has not had that name long and doesn’t really know it.

    3. do you share any fave book or TV characters?
      nickname for a location or restaurant or place that’s special to you?
      anything the dog physically resembles? I had a relative whose dog was theoretically named something else, but ended up being called Muppet after one of their kids said he looked like one of them the way his mouth was open all the time.

      1. I was just thinking that a lot of muppet names make good dog names. Grover, Oscar, Scooter, …

      2. Late to this, but we had a male rescue dog named Lucky and the comment I got once was that he was Damned Lucky ( to be adopted by us)

    5. Can you tell us more about your new dog? What’s he like?

      For some personalities of dog, hero names can be fun (if you have kids or remember what you liked as a kid, whether that’s mythological heroes, nicknames of sports legends, whatever embodies virtuous traits). Old timey human names can be a good fit without overlapping with names in current use as much.

      When you were looking at dogs were there categories of names that you liked better than food related names?

    6. Somehow I remember that dogs respond best to 2 syllable names, so: Maple, Bono, Ziggy, Duncan (or Dunkin’), ZuZu (from It’s a Wonderful Life), Cabo, Sonny/Sunny, and then I love a 90’s character reference so – Rocco, Arnold, Dexter, Blossom, Chandler, Cosmo, Elaine, Frasier, etc.

    9. I tend to like people names for dogs, especially male dogs: Carl, Phil, Bill, Jack. Why not add a title? Sir _, Duke _, Mr. _, The Lord of _., Captain Von Trapp.

      Alternatively: Jupiter, Rocky, Thor, Ellis.

    10. Whatever you pick, accept that you may be seen standing in your yard in a bathrobe yelling it at midnight. So don’t do like my mother and name the puppy “Oinkers”

    12. Knowing more about the dog would help – breed (or guess if Shelter Special), color, personality, unique features. You probably don’t want to name a Cane Corso “Chompers” but that might be cute for a Maltese mix.

      Names I like – Moose, Bear, Winston, Louie, Charlie, Denver, Boone, Zorro

      1. I replied above but oh, I love the idea of a dog named Kevin.

        I really want to name a dog Steve. Steve and Kevin are waiting, I’m bringing Steve and Kevin to the park. It flows.

        1. I both love and hate Kevin because I could never call out its name without feeling like Catherine O’Hara in Home Alone!

    14. I like classic, short men’s names for this – Jack would probably be my choice. Or Walter/Wally.

    15. characters or things from a novel or show or series you love is a fun one (and can become a fun theme if you have future pets)

    16. Argos–the most faithful dog in literary history. Argos was Odysseus’ dog who waited twenty years for his human to come home.

      1. my roommate back in my early 20s had a dog named Argos, and he was indeed a very good boy (the dog, not the roommate. the roommate was actually a very irresponsible dog owner and rehomed the dog after I moved out and couldn’t help take care of him anymore)

  11. I have an apology to make. I never understood how people could maintain relationships with people who do morally reprehensible things, and I commented conveying that. Previously I would drop people like hot potatos for those sorts of actions. However recently my ride or die did something very unsavory and I just don’t care, they mean more to me and it’s none of my business. I get it now, I guess this is unconditional love, nothing can sour me on my best friend of 17 years.

    1. One of my besties was an elder care failure in my eyes. She left absolutely everything to siblings as her mother failed mentally and physically. I’ve had a really hard time processing this, especially as someone who has been on the receiving end of that behavior. I find it inexplicable and abhorrent, but she is still my good friend. Life is hard and full of lots of gray area stuff.

      1. As in, your friend was neglecting her mom? Let her sit in filth, didn’t feed her, etc? Or just relied on her siblings to take care of her mom? Those are very different things…

        1. She let the entire burden fall on her two siblings. She was logistically able to assist and did not.

          1. FWIW, we are logistically able to assist with my MIL and his siblings are annoyed that he won’t pitch in. However, given the inhumane treatment MIL put him through his entire childhood under her roof, he has made it very clear since the day he moved out that he wants no further relationship with her and owes her nothing. The few times we tried to reconnect with her over the years have been full of verbally abusive, hate-filled rants from her. I fully support his decision to leave her high and dry. She spent decades driving away anyone who might care for her and she can deal with the consequences.

          2. Fine. That’s a reason. There’s always some exception somewhere. But this is a person whose mother treated her children wonderfully and none of them have any complaints about their childhood. By all accounts it was a charmed childhood of love, care, enrichment, travel, and joy. I don’t know how someone turns away when it was like that and leaves it all to others.

          3. Could be grief? Some people cut off relationships as things become uncomfortable, perhaps out of denial, fear, simply not knowing how to handle the differences. Which might be better for all if she’s too rattled herself to actually be helpful to her mom.

          4. I also know someone who did this. Honestly, she is self centered, and lacks empathy. It was wild to see. And of course she expected her “fair” share of the inheritance and was not the executor.

    2. Did your friend do something morally wrong and there is a specific victim? If so, you should really consider the message you send to the victim when you act like nothing happened. If there is no specific victim and the harm your friend caused is more diffuse (e.g. tax evasion), I get what you are saying and I think your reaction is reasonable.

      1. There is a victim! And our professional lives actually cross. Normally I’d be alll about taking the victim’s side but my friend is the one and only person in the world who is there for me no matter what. They are more reliable than my family.

        1. Gently, while it’s good you are realizing that sometimes love overcomes all manner of things, you still seem to be seeing things as solidly good or bad and all about taking sides. You have just decided not to care about being on the “good” side here because in this instance it is convenient to you. That’s not exactly growth.

          1. It’s also not her battle. She is not further victimizing the person by remaining close to her friend.

        2. Live a bit longer and the next reliable lesson you will learn is that she will not hesitate to also do you dirty.

          1. I don’t think they would do me dirty, they have had thousands of opportunities and never have. Plus I know all their secrets.

        3. I wouldn’t feel the same about them after finding out and would never feel quite as trusting (more guarded) towards them moving forward.

    4. I think a lot of the “drop them” sentiment is online culture. It’s all well and good to say that one shouldn’t be friends with a cheater (or whatever) until your BFF from diapers who married a guy who seemed wonderful but he’s since become a dud who mooches off her and doesn’t adult (himself) or parent (the kids) and she had a ONS on a business trip that made her feel alive for the first time in 15 years. I think most people who have longterm friendships forgive some pretty bad behavior over a lifetime.

    5. I think this is part of growing up and realizing that people are complicated and life is often morally gray.

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