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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Sloan Pant

woman wears black pants with straight cut

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I was cleaning out my closet last week and found a pair of Banana Republic Sloan pants tucked away on a shelf with the tags still on them. I’m pretty sure I bought them in March 2020, right before the world shut down, and just completely forgot. When I tried them on, I remembered why they had been such a crucial piece of my wardrobe for so many years!

Their fabric is thick enough to provide a smoothing effect without being compressive like Spanx, and it has enough stretch to be comfortable, but not so much that you have baggy knees by the end of the day. Maybe I’ll buy another pair and hide it away as a little surprise for myself in four years. 

The spants are $100 at Banana Republic (with two sale colors starting at $34) and come in sizes 0-20, 4T-12T, and 00P-10P. In addition to black, they come in navy, stone gray, and green nori (lucky sizes only). 

Want more options for great work pants? As of 2024, we think the best work pants for women include longtime favorites such as Nic + Zoe, Theory, NYDJ, J.Crew, and M.M.LaFleur — as well as trendy brands like Spanx, Favorite Daughter, and Everlane. For budget-friendly styles, check Quince, Old Navy, and Amazon seller Tapata.

the best work pant for women, overall: nic & zoe
Nic & Zoe
one of the best affordable women's work pants: quince
Quince
some of the best black work pants with a flare
Spanx
A woman wearing black pants, gold sandals, and a white top
NYDJ
A woman wearing navy pants, sneakers, and a gray sweatshirt
Anthropologie

Sales of note for 12.5

393 Comments

  1. My mom has 12-18 months. I feel too young to lose my mom. (I’m 35, she’s 68.) We aren’t what I would describe as super emotionally close – we were raised and expected to be independent, I’ve been emancipated since 16, but I don’t want her to be in pain or to go this early. I have been unproductive for a week now, since her post-surgical prognosis is worse than expected. Other than “don’t worry, doctors can be wrong/miracles can happen” (which is what my close friends have said so far) … any tips? Resources? I’m an avid reader, I don’t need to necessarily learn anything else about her health, she’s a 2-hour drive away (Midwest, rural) so I’m not going to move. I guess I’m trying to figure out how to navigate this time and also move on from my basically frozen state.

    1. I’m so sorry. Are you able to take some time off to go spend with her? Even just a day trip? Doesn’t have to be sappy, just go and clean a room or something, have lunch together, make small talk and let the conversation go where it wants?

    2. Losing my mom was so hard. I didn’t go to therapy and I really really wish I had, and started early. It took a long time to heal from the trauma.

    3. Spend as much time with her as you can. And ask all the questions. One thing my sisters and I are finding are that we didn’t ask for as much detail about certain things and certain people, and now, years later, we wish we knew.

    4. I suspect this is anticipatory grief you are feeling. Knowing the name may help you find some resources. I had this when my husband was very very sick and found therapy to be the only thing that made it less excruciating. Sending love and support your way.

      1. Make a video and good quality audio of your mom answering key questions you want to know—saying your name, telling about you, siblings, cousins growing up. Or talking about her own family of origin. And your dad and other significant people in your life. Maybe ask about a favorite memory/trip/recipe, etc.

        My point is, after having lost my dad, uncle, cousins, great-aunts&uncles and all grandparents, it’s WONDERFUL to have them on video. To hear their voices and see their mannerisms and to hear them say your name. It’s something you probably will miss even if you aren’t that close.

        Sending prayers and good thoughts for strength, comfort and less pain for your mom and you throughout this process.

    5. I’m so sorry. In your shoes, I would take some significant time off work now and go spend it with her while she’s at the beginning of the end of her time. Make those last memories, ask the questions, say all the things you need to say to each other.

    6. I’m so sorry. This is really hard and it’s ok to be frozen for a bit, it’s jarring.

      I lost my mom last year and it felt very sudden – she had leukemia that suddenly got very aggressive and she never recovered. Looking back, I wish I’d done 2 things: spent more time with her doing those things we thought we had more time for, and taking videos of her. I have lots of photos of her throughout her entire life, but only a few videos, and the thing I wish for the most is to hear her voice. I’m grateful for the recordings I do have but wish I had more.

      Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to feel what you feel & not feel guilty about it.

      1. JTM’s experience sounds similar to mine. My mom had a disease for a long time and was in treatment successfully for years. But then the treatments stopped working, she decided to go into hospice, and then she went downhill very very quickly. Like you, OP, I was in my late 30s, and this is far too young to lose a parent.

        Assuming you have a good relationship, you will not regret any time you spend with your mom and anything you do for her. My mom wanted to just talk a lot in the last two months of her life: she was still working through her own unresolved life issues like her own childhood, and we talked a lot about that. She wanted to hear about the things I would be doing after she died, including how I thought I might cope with the grief; she wanted me to continue living a healthy, happy life, and she wanted to hear about what that would look like. She loved when I would bring pictures and memories of her life and my life with me when I saw her and she enjoyed getting the same from other people; I sent out an email to her friends and asked that they send pictures and memories but not to expect responses form her because she was so tired. She wanted to know that her life had meaning and a positive impact on others.

        Cry with her. Knowing you’re sad is hard, but it also means she mattered to you.

        Make sure you say the following things if they are true: I love you, thank you (and for specific things), I forgive you, and please forgive me. She needs peace at this stage in her life. If appropriate, touch her; she needs physical contact – hold her hand, sit next to her, massage her legs and arms with cream, get in bed with her and talk.

        Finally, give her your permission or blessing that she can die. If you talk to hospice providers, you’ll hear that dying people need to know it’s okay for them to let go and die. Each time I left her, I told her that it was okay if she was not alive when I came back. It’s gut wrenching to say, but she told me she appreciated that; she didn’t need to hold on.

        I’m so sorry you’re facing this. Lean on your friends or other family if you can. At a minimum, tell people in your life what’s going on, including your employer. You will be surprised by how supportive people are and how much they want to help or cut you slack during this time.

      2. Oh, Catie! I’m so sorry to hear this! This is great advice. I just went through my daughter losing her dad, and this rings true from what I observed of her experience.

        And yes 100% to the videos. I don’t have any video of my mom and really wish I did.

    7. I’m so sorry. A few thoughts after having lost both parents and dealing with the medical system, the caregiving, and the end:
      1) Give yourself space to just be. Not be productive, not be “top of your game”, just be. It’s hard.
      2) When it’s really hard, treat yourself like an animal: Get food, water, sleep, exercise, sunshine. All of these help you face the next day.
      3) Know that you could do everything perfectly and it would still feel awful. And you won’t do everything perfectly. No one does.
      4) Atul Gawande’s book “Being Mortal” is incredible if you are looking for something to read. As time goes on, hospice can be very helpful. Be sure to have the convo with her medical team about palliative care. It is not discussed often enough.
      5) Grief is not linear. You (and she) may go through one stage and then another and then be back at the first stage a month later. It’s all your body’s way of navigating the maze.
      6) Make the time to be with her when you can, but know that you could be with her every moment and it still would likely not feel like enough at the end.
      Know you are not alone. And you will come out the other side of this period of time.

    8. I’m so sorry. I lost my mom to a heart attack when I was 39. (She had a heart attack and then, we think, a stroke while on the operating table for bypass surgery. She never woke up.) And, while she hadn’t been in the best of health, the end was swift and traumatic.

      While it is hard to lose someone by inches, the knowledge and time you have with her can be a real gift. I would spend what time you can with her – especially right now while she’s more stable/physically capable than she may be later. Plan a trip – or even a daytrip here or there – that you’d both enjoy. Sometimes getting out of the daily grind/bubble can help start conversations you wouldn’t otherwise have. Take the time to thank her (where appropriate). When you can’t physically be with her, phone calls can be great – pick a time when you’re not in a rush or otherwise distracted. If she likes to write cards or letters – exchange them with her. Hopefully re-reading what she wrote when she’s gone is a comfort. I agree with getting video recordings – I don’t have many, but treasure them. I also have several voicemails that she left me over the years that I downloaded/saved – including a couple of her singing me happy birthday (which she insisted on doing every year).

      Sending comfort and light your way. It’s….the fucking worst.

    9. I am so so sorry. My mom got her mom to write down our family history before she passed. Nothing formal, just where we came from, how we came here etc. I am so grateful she did that because I would not know it otherwise.

    10. I’m sorry, this is hard. I found it easier to acknowledge that death is coming than to hold out hope when it is warranted and would have been really annoyed with what your friends said. I wish I had sought out and attended grief support before the death.

      My area has a wonderful local nonprofit that offers peer grief support, which really helped me once I got into it a bit after the death. Hospice care organizations or the hospital might be able to refer if you’re having trouble finding support. Therapy can also be helpful, depending on circumstance.

      Everyone has their own experience of grief and their own relationships. And some people can be very unhelpful about grief. The appropriate system is support in (to people more closely related/affected), dump out (to someone more removed). It sounds harsh, but my dying parent and I would have been better served if I had firmly told people less closely affected not to come to me with their feelings and worries.

      Also, are you going to be responsible for managing her care when she can no longer do so? If so, make sure you and she meet with a lawyer to get the necessary documentation in place. If it’s in the budget, I’d also consider hiring an elder care consultant or social worker to help with arranging the necessary care. Even managing care for someone with whom you’re close is a ton of very emotional work, so consider how much you can do and let your mom know so she can make other arrangements while she is still well enough if necessary.

    11. Ugh. It is just brutal. I’m so sorry.

      I lost my Mom at an identical age, after finding out she had aggressive cancer.

      For me, doing some research to make sure she had a good set of doctors to help was helpful. I spent time on discussion groups/online support groups about my Mom’s specific cancer, and got wonderful advice and support.

      Many of your peers wont have gone through this yet. Unfortunately, it was very upsetting for me to not have more support from friends. Is there anyone in your extended family who is older (who understands loss/this process), who can be a source of support? That can be helpful.

      Try if you can to think of things to look forward to and plan them with her. Visits – and put them in the calendar. Regular phone calls, so she knows when they are coming. Favorite foods. If possible, a trips somewhere she always wanted to go. Drop postcards in the mail randomly.

      My regret is I have no recordings of her voice, and we never did videos. So please get those. How I wish I had videos/recordings of my parents talking about their childhoods/where they came from/who they are, or recalling any favorite anecdotes. I also wish I had gotten to know more deeply who my mother was by talking to her as an adult about choices she made in life. It would have been emotional/hard, but very meaningful for both of us. I really wish I had told her more of what she meant to me, despite all the problems/heartache. She really did her best.

      If your childhood was difficult (early emancipation), this time may bring up a lot of unresolved issues. Agree that therapy may be really helpful.

      I’m so sorry.

    12. Read or listen to On Death and Dying by Elizabeth Kubler Ross. It helps explain the stages of death both for your mom and for you and you will get an idea of what to expect. My mom died suddenly of a heart attack but my step dad’s death from lung cancer was clow and the book help me immensely.

    13. I will tell you it isn’t easy no matter the circumstances or your age. Make sure you say everything you need to say, but also make memories. Don’t feel pressured to be any certain way. It probably took me an entire year to feel like I could stand up. You will unfortunately not get great support from peers unless they have lost someone. But, there are some things that helped me. Two podcasts: Terrible, thanks for asking and It’s OK that you’re not ok. Megan Devine has a book as well. End of Your Life Book Club is a good book as well.

  2. Cross-post. Does anyone have any of the Momcozy wearable pumps and if so, do you recommend? My primary pump is a Spectra, but I’m looking for something for outings and to make things easier around the house for multitasking. I’m something of an under producer so I’m not sure that it would be worth it. I also WFH.

    1. I bought them. I would not recommend multitasking while wearing them because they spill super easily. However, I found them almost as powerful as the Spectra and preferred them for traveling, as I also had the Medela pump which I found quite weak. I have pumped on a plane with the Momcozys but they’re kinda visible so wouldn’t do it in a meeting or something.

      1. Would you be able to do things like wash some dishes or would they spill even with that?

    2. Third kid, loyal spectra user. I got the BabBuddha this time around for travel and I really like it. Output is comparable to the spectra. You can use the BabyBuddha or Spectra flanges with it. You can’t really move around with it, though because the milk could spill. I’m not sure any of the “wearable” pumps give the same output.

    3. I have the Willow in-bra wearable. It’s fine. I cannot bend over to do something like load the dishwasher while wearing it, but I can walk around and do things so long as I’m upright. It’s not as much output as my Spectra, but it’s nice as an additional pump when I didn’t want to have to sit still. I am weaning now so basically never pumping, but when I was still pumping, I used the Willow most often when driving.

      1. Would you leave it on until you reached your destination and then transfer to a cooler? It seems like the logistics of that are still easier than being wall-tied.

        1. Yes, exactly.
          More often, I was using it to pump on a drive home, so I was transferring it once I got to my house. I also used it for short work trips (like one night) in lieu of the Spectra once my baby was closer to 1 and wasn’t taking as much milk. When I was having to pump more often (and producing more), it wouldn’t have been a great substitute for that purpose, but later on it was.

      2. I have this one for work. It is not as good as my Spectra and can be finicky, but I do prefer it for my in-office days because it’s more discreet.

    4. Damn I read this as a pump as in shoe and thought j was having a stroke trying to figure it out!

    1. Not without an act of Congress. Requires both houses to support. Senate can filibuster (need 60 Senators to break filibuster). They will probably just defund / remove support / leave appointed positions infilled.

      1. Ha!

        My qualifications – minus the tv gig – aren’t dissimilar from the future SecDef’s. And I’m a lawyer, which might(?) be a good thing in Trumpland. So there! I’m more qualified than a Secretary of Defense!

    2. You may not agree with his policies, but at least Rubio is in the realm of a normal pick for Sec of State. The Fox News host, yeesh. Though I’m betting a significant portion of the military voted Trump, sooo have fun with those new bosses (snark is my coping mechanism)

      1. I keep posting this here as a means of educating about the military since so many people on this board are unfamiliar. (Not directed at you, 9:20, specifically.)

        The military officer corps (the leaders) and the enlisted force (the people who do the workaday jobs) are very different classes of people. Broadly speaking, enlisted soldiers/airmen/etc join at 18 out of high school; officers enter at 22 after undergrad. Did the enlisted force vote for Trump? Probably a good number of them, but definitely not all. Did the officer corps vote for him in large numbers? No. I’m a former Army officer, my husband is a current Air Force officer, and we only know of one Trump supporting family. Every other officer is acutely aware of Trump’s risk to the republic because the military takes an oath to “support and defend the Constitution, from all enemies, foreign and domestic.” The Pentagon had a plan to get rid of Trump in 2021 if he wasn’t going to leave on his own, and they’ll do literally whatever is necessary to uphold the Constitution again.

        Btw, word on the street is Trump wants to cull the general officer corps. Be wary. General officers, yes, sometimes can be bloat, but they are also the most educated. Military officers need at least 2 Masters and a couple certificates to reach higher ranks, and add another Masters, fellowship, or PhD in there to reach the highest ranks. My husband got to choose between Harvard and MIT the last time the military sent him to school, so the military’s leadership isn’t stupid. They’re watching all this with the same alarm you are.

        1. Thank you. I would even go so far as to say that the enlisted ranks may not have supported him as universally as people think. My sister (career army officer, the Army sent her to Georgetown to get her 3rd master’s degree before she went to teach at West Point, so +1 to not stupid) was stationed in Korea for Trump’s first win, and she said the mood was pretty dark across all ranks. Trump is a loose cannon, and the military really bears the brunt of unstable geopolitics. The enlisted members know that too, especially if they’re into the NCO ranks, which is typically after 4-6 years of service.

        2. Yes, I can confirm the above based on close family direct knowledge.

          But also, the WSJ reported yesterday that Trump is mulling a “warrior board” to identify military leaders that should be demoted – basically those perceived as disloyal. We could see a major culling of the military officer corps.

        5. I’m 9:20 and I appreciate this insight. I have an uncle that was top military, worked at the Pentagon, retired full pension to go private, almost all their kids and kids’ spouses are also military, and he and my aunt are some of the Trump-iest people I know. Spreading unkind memes on Facebook type of thing. I think half their kids are also MAGA and the other half are sane…

          1. (And I’m going to clarify because I believe generalizations are not helpful, I do not think everyone who voted for Trump is crazy. I will trust they had reasons. I DO think the rapid MAGA movement is unhinged, with the Trump-as-savior rhetoric. Several of those family members fall in that bucket.)

    3. I’m genuinely unsure how the country is going to run. I don’t think the general public realizes just how many boring government of jobs exist that keep the wheels on the bus.

      1. This. On my to-do is renewing my passport. It’s good until 2026, but I fear that by then processing times will be incredibly slow.

        1. you can now do it online! it was super easy and i got mine in 3 weeks. getting a picture that they would accept was the hardest part…

          3. my little hole-in-the wall photo studio and notary public will print and email the passport pictures.

          4. I used a selfie and got mine in 8 days. Not business days. It was amazing. Pic is terrible but it works.

    4. Rubio doesn’t have the spine to stand up to Trump but is otherwise “normal.” Hegseth is a horrible pick, as are Noem and Ratcliffe. All are under qualified and pro-MAGA.

      Regarding other announcements – Huckabee is an awful pick for Israeli ambassador. And can we talk about the irony of the “department for government efficiency” having two heads?

      1. I’ve been reading up on Reagan’s Grace commission that was to drain the swamp and made recommendations to save $400 billion over 3 years. After this I am much less concerned. A little deregulation for the government itself wouldn’t hurt actually.

        1. My concern is that neither give a damn about having a functioning government. Musk believes in moving fast and breaking things, rather than being thoughtful and minimizing harm. That is not an Ok approach for the government in my mind. The question for me, however, is whether any of their suggestions will actually be followed.

          1. Government is about risk aversion. People don’t realize that the reason decisions take so long is because every option has been considered and analyzed. Being risk adverse saves lives.

          2. You’re right; the guy who safely gets people to outer space is reckless and breaks things.

          4. I’m pretty sure the CEO hires the people who oversee safety.

            You’re all quite tedious.

          6. re getting people to space safely…actually, spaceX did this by breaking a lot of stuff along the way (leaving completely aside the environmental damage). Their approach was kind of akin to minimum viable product, where they just kept launching rockets and lots of them would blow up and then they’d iterate. So many things failed and blew up that it wasn’t particularly newsworthy until the big splashy successes (which, to be fair, are awesome. kudos to the engineers). It was ultimately successful, but NOT an approach I’d like the federal government to take.

          7. Hey Anon at 10:20, I hope you’re right! I hope the next two years prove me to be a tedious, anxiety-ridden ball of neuroses because everything turned out fine and dismantling the government was a good idea. I guess we’ll see, won’t we?

          8. Musk doesn’t care, but the senator from Tennessee or Idaho cares about the federal dollars coming to his or her state and jobs for those voters. They care a lot.

    5. He’s filling the room with sycophants so he can play at being a dictator. Meanwhile, Stephen Miller and his shadow Heritage Foundation government will be able to do the real harm.

    6. I’ve been using my new vocabular word a lot this week: kakistocracy. The Kristi Noem pick just sent me around the bend…

  5. Weird question of the day – what makes someone cheap? I consider myself somewhat frugal, but I still give gifts, splurge monthly on nice dinners and travel, buy my kids whatever they need and most of what they want, etc. I never thought of myself cheap. But my friends want to take a group trip (which I love to do), and their choice of hotel is about a grand a night. I am going to split it with another friend, so it’s not the end of the world and I’m not complaining because I didn’t have to handle the logistics, but I think it’s expensive. I can’t tell whether I am being cheap. Nobody else is batting an eye. We all make good money.

    1. I only spend that kind of money on nice hotels for vacations with DH. Friends trips don’t get 5 star hotels for me.

          1. So only married people can justify spending on 5 star hotels?
            PS – The loneliest people I know are married.

          2. As a married person, I actually think that if you are single you can spend $1,000 on a hotel for a girls’ trip if you want to, but if you’re married it’s selfish to spend that kind of money on a trip that your spouse/family doesn’t get to enjoy unless you are so incredibly wealthy that you take that kind of vacation with the family and your husband gets to take an equivalent solo or guys’ trip.

          3. I agree with 11:35. i guess it depends what “good money” is, and how many other things you have to spend it on. I make good money, but after household expenses, savings, childcare, etc, I don’t feel flush enough to drop upwards of a thousand on lodging alone for a weekend. I wouldn’t spend like that for a girls trip unless it’s a truly milestone bucket list kind of thing, because I’d feel selfish and like I was overpaying. If I had my current salary and were single with no kids, I probably wouldn’t think anything of it.

          4. Plus I would imagine a girls trip with a $1,000 hotel is going to involve a lot of other big expenses – spa days, Michelin-starred dinners, etc. People who drop that kind of money on a hotel without hesitation aren’t going to want to cheap out on food, booze and activities.

        2. I don’t think this is smug? I also would treat a trip with a romantic partner differently than a trip with friends. My friends and I don’t need to eat a romantic breakfast on a private balcony overlooking the Mediterranean together…

          1. Same. It didn’t read smug to me. Girls trips are about low key fun, which doesn’t require a big budget. Trips with my spouse are usually for milestone birthdays and anniversaries and I’m usually looking more for romance and special experiences that we’ll remember forever and that necessarily comes with a bigger budget.

          2. Plus it’s spending the money on both partners together, not one partner spending thousands on their own. But I live in “strict budget land” so big expenses need to benefit/be enjoyed by the family as a whole right now

      2. That’s so weird. I’m a five star all the time person and I love having a friend to split the room cost with.

        1. +1. If it isn’t 5 star, I’m probably not going. I’d rather take fewer trips and stay at incredible places than more trips in average spots.

    2. When people who don’t want to spend $1K per night on a hotel room are considered cheap, you know our society has an overconsumption problem.

      No you aren’t cheap, that’s crazy. TBH you don’t sound all that frugal, either!

      1. I save 40% of my pre-tax income and drive a beater. That’s about as frugal as I can get!

        1. Ha, I realize that sounded like I was throwing shade…no shade meant, you can clearly afford it. It sounds like you make a lot of money, so you are frugal relative to your peers. But objectively, splurging on dinners and vacations every month and buying kids most things they want doesn’t seem frugal; frugality implies some sort of tough decision or sacrifice, to me. It sounds like you have your financial house in order, though!

        2. Whether that’s actually frugal depends on your post-tax income. I purchased everything I possibly wanted when in biglaw, and still saved over 50% of my post-tax income once my loans were paid off

          1. I guess in my mind that’s not frugal — that’s having a lot of money so you don’t have to make frugal choices. It doesn’t mean you were lavish or wasteful, but there is a middle ground.

      2. All I can think of is for 2-3 nights, for NYC, I might spend for a great central location for a high-demand time (which can really drive up prices), especially if I am splitting it. But if you are just going out a lot (which is why I think people go to NYC), I’d rather put that $ into activities and meals and a less luxe stay. I know what a real NYC apartment is like and any hotel is many, many steps up from how my peers actually live unless they are super-far out.

      3. No. It’s sharing a room with friends and it sounds like you haven’t looked at the cost of hotels lately. It’s not overconsumption, but I’d say uninformed. And also, a key part of a girls trip is hanging out wherever you’re staying so picking a nice hotel is part of that.

        1. It’s not uniformed. Hotel costs have gone up but you don’t need to pay anywhere near $1,000 per night to have a decent place. That’s insane.

          1. Yeah I’m not usually one to say people here are out of touch rich but this is crazy talk.

          2. Umm how much do y’all think the Miravals of this world cost that you recommend all the time? That’s standard girls trip fare and is easily in that range.

          3. Miraval is an all inclusive spa resort that includes food, activities and spa credits in the room rate. That’s pretty different than a “hotel.” I (and I think many others) assumed it was just a hotel room. If it’s all inclusive, then the price is way more reasonable.

    3. That’s pricey, particularly if you’re not sure everyone is 100% on board. Is this at a very expensive destination where you’re not paying much more than a standard hotel (thinking NYC, or some fancy Caribbean island) or are there plentiful perfectly fine less expensive hotels?
      At this point in my life, I’d rather spend that money on getting my own room in a four star hotel than share a room in a five star.

      1. Even in NYC that’s a lot. There are plenty of fine hotels in the $300-500 per night range.

        1. Fair. I recently looked and prices were insane, but that was for a holiday weekend and five of us in one room.

          1. Looking at random dates in the next couple of months that aren’t holidays, The Pierre, 1 Hotel, The Bowery and Lotte New York Palace are all $400-something a night, the Langham is around $500. Those are all five star luxury hotels. There’s a Westin, an Omni, at least two InterContinentals, the Gansevoort, the Standard, a Kimpton, an Andaz, the SoHo Grand and a Le Meridien (all 4 stars) under $300 per night… If none of those hotels are “fine” to you, you must be a 0.001%er.

          2. Ok but January/Feb non holiday is not at all representative of typical NYC hotel rates! As a poster below noted, Hilton garden inn (which probably half the rate of the hotels you listed above) for a basic room runs 500 over the summer!

          3. Actually a bunch of the 4 star hotels I listed have rates under $500 through the summer. I agree $300 is tough in peak season for a 4 or 5 star hotel, which is why I gave the range of $300-500. $500 is very doable any time of year unless you have incredibly high standards.

        3. Please share these mythical hotels. Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely curious because that is not my experience at all

          1. If you only want one bed, there are plenty of nice hotel rooms to be had for $500 in NYC even on a busy weekend. It gets more difficult when you need two beds. I had to pay around $500 for a teeny tiny room in a Hilton Garden Inn with two queens this summer.

          2. Right but the comment suggested there were fine hotels for $300 which I don’t think is realistic at all, especially if including weekend days or holidays

          3. The 5 star hotels are all well above $300 but there are a lot of 4 star hotels around $300 or even less. I guess it depends what you consider “fine.” To me even a basic Marriott or Hilton is “fine” (not fancy, but fine!) and those can be as low as $200 sometimes.

          1. Yeah I’m up against expense account constraints, which can stretch to $500 ish with a lot of extra rigamarole (proving I can’t find anything else) but the place I used to reliably pay $300-$500 for is now $700 even when I’m flexible on dates. The expense account says no to $700. I actually had to move hotels during my last stay to make it work, and spend my last night out by EWR.

      2. I just booked the Westin in Times Square for a few weekdays in early December and it was over $800 per night. Absolutely shocking.

    4. At my age one thing I sometimes need to do is remind myself what that would be in ~1990 money. Sometimes I haven’t updated my sense of what things should cost!

      There are also a lot of fancy things I don’t enjoy more than simple things, which for me includes hotels so I’d find this expensive, but since you know you will enjoy the trip it’s still $ well spent?

      1. It’s funny. Those inflation calculators are cool to look at, but I’m an 80s child, and jeans were $30 for me. Jeans are still $30. Global commerce has changed a lot.

    5. That seems crazy expensive to me, assuming that other lodging options are available.
      I don’t think that makes you cheap, but I am certainly more frugal than others at my income level are, so maybe that’s for others to judge. I feel like cheap people begrudge spending small amounts of money that aren’t financially as impactful and force others into their cheapness (e.g. my aunt on a multi family trip feeding her kids healthy snacks brought from home while me and my other cousins got ice creams). And cheap people are cheap with those lower in a hierarchy (executive grabbing break room snacks for themselves and staff don’t get any).

      1. Cheap and poverty are not at all the same. Neither are cheap and frugal. Frugal is when you can afford something, but choose not to spend money on it. Cheap is when you can afford something, but you insist on inconveniencing others so you don’t have to spend. Cheap is when you make it someone else’s problem.

        I also think a $1000/night hotel is wild, but to be not cheap, your options are to either bow out gracefully or suck it up and pay. Cheap would be insisting everyone else on the trip stay in a place they don’t want to stay.

        1. That is a good distinction between cheap and frugal. I have a friend who has a high household income + family money but she has become so cheap I don’t want to go out to dinner with her anymore. Splitting the bill gets downright embarrassing, and that’s before we even get to tipping, where it seems she’s trying to get to a “compromise” of $0.

    7. How much are competing hotels? Since you didn’t handle logistics, that’s the downside of not knowing. I have to travel for work a lot and I’ve seen that in some small areas when something big comes to town or high season in some areas when you don’t book early enough. Now whether it’s “worth” it to someone is entirely different. I almost never travel but I fork over my credit card for $1,000 vet bills pretty regularly where others would think that’s crazy.

    8. The would be an absolutely not for me. I think it’s all about priorities. I’m willing to spend money on safety and convenience so I MIGHT be willing to spend that much on a hotel if was the only decent option after getting in on a late night flight in a situation where I didn’t have much flexibility (professional reasons, a funeral or wedding, medical reasons, etc.), but I really don’t care at all about luxury travel and it’s just not worth it to me to spend money on a fancy hotel just because it’s nice.

      Your situation is hard because it appears travel plans have already been made, so you have to decide it it’s worth making a fuss now, but I don’t think I’d want to travel with these people in the future if this is the kind of place they really want to stay. Unclear whether they’d be open to a discussion about that? I don’t make enough money to do that regularly, but maybe you do, so you have to decide if spending time with friends is worth it to you if that’s where they really want to stay.

      1. I think she is past the point of deciding since it’s a split cost though—that $500 then shifts to $1,000 for someone else. The time to discuss budget was when the logistics were being planned, which she didn’t participate in.

    9. How long is the trip? $500/night for a weekend trip seems expensive to me but I might be willing to pay it if location and other things are ideal. $500/night for a week would be way too expensive for me. When I travel with friends we opt for a vacation rental because it is more economical, private and generally more conducive to spending time together as a group. We have stayed at some incredible rentals that are much less expensive than hotels.

    10. That’s extremely weird to me. I’m an avid traveler with a big travel budget (~$30k per year for our family of three) and I rarely spend that kind of money on a hotel. I’m actually not sure I’ve ever spent that much. I will this summer when I go on safari, but that’s a very unique experience and the “hotel” includes much more than lodging. On girls’ group trips, hotels are typically around $200-300 per night.

      1. How often do y’all actually book hotels?

        I was at a conference in Omaha this summer and it was $800 for the Marriott where it was being held because our conference took it over and people were passing through for Sturgis (I ended up walking each day from a different hotel). That was OMAHA. I had similar rates last year at the Paris in Las Vegas because some other big event (I think Formula One?) was overlapping with one of the nights of our conference. Each night of the stay wasn’t going to be at that rate but at least one of them was because of the high demand. I just recently booked for another small conference at a casino/resort in upper New York that wasn’t that special, and my rate was around $500 or $600 prior to tax. I don’t think you have to imagine some exotic safari to hit that sort of cost, especially with two people sharing where you’re looking at a double bed and, ideally, a suite situation. You just need somewhere with some other big event happening and/or you’re planning late in the game during a busy season. Since you admitted you can fairly easily pay, I would do this for the sake of peace. But going forward, I would try to be more involved in the logistics or at least determine budget as a group. It’s hard to complain afterward when someone else did the leg work and backing out will affect someone else pretty significantly (the other person you’re sharing with). Totally different advice if this was individual hotel rooms. Backing out then is totally reasonable.

        1. I’m the person you’re replying to. I spend ~30 nights in hotels each year and book another 15-20 nights of business travel for my husband. We almost never spend more than $300 pre-tax except for Caribbean beach resorts and all-inclusive resorts. Most expensive non-resort hotel I can think of recently was a Marriott super close to Disneyland which was around $375 before tax.

          1. Then you’re not staying in situations of double beds in a suite and decent places. She also didn’t say pre-tax. I stand by what I said. Heck, I can hit over $300 pretty regularly if it’s in a location where there is a big sporting event at the same time. You don’t even need that if it’s something like Scottsdale over the holidays. OP didn’t give any background. But I’d bet it’s the dates or a combo with location and a larger room situation since they are splitting that drove this up.

          2. We definitely stay in decent hotels although not typically luxury ones. A lot of our travel is in Europe and I think hotels tend to be slightly cheaper there. But hotel rooms are also smaller there so we sometimes get a junior suite, which offsets some of the savings. In the US, we don’t get suites (there’s no need as a family of 3) but we always get two beds. The upcharge for that is usually only $10-20/night. We have AAA and I’ve noticed the AAA discounts are more substantial in recent years. We also have excellent travel insurance through premium credit cards so we can buy cheaper non-refundable rates.

        2. The key here is the dates. If the dates are the reason OP’s hotel price is inflated, then she and her friends should be choosing another weekend unless the purpose of the trip is to attend the event that’s influencing hotel prices. One hotel where I regularly stay is $130/night most of the time but $400+/night during certain events. If I want or need to attend one of those events I factor in the ridiculous room rate as part of the cost of attendance. Otherwise I travel at another time.

          1. Even with school age kids that require us to travel at peak times we never have to pay $1k a night for hotels. Sometimes (probably often) we pay more than we otherwise would but except maybe in NYC anything above $500 for a non-resort hotel is bonkers to me. And I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on travel.

        3. Hotels hugely jack up prices for conferences because business travelers aren’t price sensitive. I have family near Omaha and can assure that no one who visits there not on business is paying anywhere near $800 for a hotel room.

          I don’t do much business travel but I travel a ton for leisure and I think the most I’ve paid for a hotel in the continental US (excluding all-inclusive resorts) was $600 for the Woodstock Inn in Vermont on Columbus Day weekend a couple years ago. And that was as peak season as it gets (prime fall foliage) and it’s a pretty luxurious property. Normally for family travel we stay in basic hotels that are clean and comfortable but not fancy and pay $200-300.

          1. Hun, I can assure you that $800 was the charge and that it was that for anyone booking online who woefully chose the same days in Omaha. Literally a risk anytime you have limited lodging and high demand. It f’d with our budget.

          2. For that one hotel… there are hundreds of other hotels in the city and suburbs, and people who aren’t there on business can choose their hotel and wouldn’t pay $800. Maybe they would have to stay in a less fancy hotel or further from their desired location but most people who don’t have an expense account would make that choice.

    11. I don’t think of myself as cheap and I would not spend that kind of money unless it was discussed and agreed to beforehand. My income is on the higher end of my friend group, and I try to be mindful of that when planning things so no one is in an uncomfortable position.
      To me, what makes people cheap is people who complain about money and insist that you cover everything and don’t reciprocate in any way (it doesn’t have to be money – it can be caring, giving your time, hosting at home for pizza, whatever works for the other person). My aunt is cheap – she visits my parents (who live in an attractive location where she can stay for free), complains about how they are so rich and she is so poor (which isn’t really true), picks expensive restaurants that they will treat her to, and never offers to buy a cup of coffee, or do anything else for anyone really. I’m perfectly happy to treat people who can’t afford things, but it can’t be a one-way relationship.

      1. Your definition of cheap fits my SIL to a tee. She refuses ever to stay in a hotel or rent a car, expects everyone else to pay her way and chauffeur her everywhere, causes massive logistical inconvenience to others so she can save $100 on a plane ticket, the list goes on. She constantly complains about how poor she is, despite the fact that she probably has more disposable income than her brother and I do. That’s being cheap. Not wanting to stay in a $1000/night hotel when there are other good options is not cheap.

    12. Unless this an all-inclusive resort and the price includes food, alcohol and some activities, that’s absolutely crazy to me.

    13. I’ve recommended it here before, but I have used the app Troupe to plan four girls’ trips, a family trip and two family reunions. Everyone votes on available dates, destinations, lodging, activities, etc. You can try it on a future trip with your friends to make sure everyone gets input early in the planning process.

    14. You asked the right board of frugal frannies. I wouldn’t bat an eyelash either and would go and have fun and enjoy the luxurious sheets, service and amenities. People here will clutch their pearls.

      1. Omg this board is filled with rich people. So wild to act like ultra luxury hotels are more normal in “real life” than here. I’m a highly educated professional and I don’t think I know anyone outside my family who’s spent more $500 on a hotel, and even that amount is rare for most people.

        1. I can’t imagine spending $1000 on a hotel either – but it sounds like the OPs objection is closer to “a hotel shouldn’t cost that much” or “I don’t get $1000 worth of happiness from a fancy hotel room”; not “I can’t afford that”. In my mind, deciding not to buy something you can afford because the value proposition seems bad is the definition of cheap/frugal; instead of the dollar amount you’re spending. (Although OP, please don’t show up saying you “feel working class”!)

          1. That is not at all my definition of cheap. Deciding not to buy something you can afford because the value proposition seems bad is normal prioritization/prudence. Frugality is making extra efforts to get the best value, like spending a lot of effort shopping around, or giving up some extras for the sake of saving money, like buying a less fancy car. Being cheap is refusing to buy something that you can afford and that you need or that does have value to you or the person for whom you would buy it, like refusing to fix things around the house that really should be fixed or refusing to take your spouse out for a nice anniversary dinner when you can afford it and you know that your spouse would really enjoy it.

        1. Yeah, I would rather spend less and get my own room, than book a room that’s so expensive that I need to share it in order to afford it.

          1. Yup. Nothing kills “luxe” vibes for me like room sharing. Especially past age 30. We’re too old for that, and can afford our own space (at a normal hotel).

          3. I just did this trip with a girlfriend and there’s nothing better than staying up late and talking about all the things like we did in college. YMMV but sharing a luxury room with a friend is the most glorious thing ever.

          4. You can stay up late together without sharing a room and bathroom. Get adjoining rooms.

          6. Another adjoining room person FTW. Come sit on my bed and have a glass of wine with me until late, but let me poop alone and walk around nekkid solo.

          7. another vote for staying up late having a slumber party and then going back to separate rooms to shower and poop

          8. I’ve gone on some girls trips where we shared luxury room and loved it! We’ve also gotten Air BNBs where some of us shared rooms and I never minded that either. To each their own but I wouldn’t say that this is a strongly held believe of everyone over 30. All these trips were taken ages 30-45.

      4. Lol, I am going to go and enjoy every minute. But it felt odd because everybody else was acting very nonchalant, and I was in sticker shock! It’s me! I was the pearl clutcher!

        1. But did you act nonchalant in front of everyone else as well? I wonder if you’re all pearl clutching but no one wants to be the one to say it…

          1. Yeah, I’d bet this is what’s happening. I make high 6 figures and if I spent 1K/night on a hotel room, it would be a BIG DEAL.

        1. No your point was that people posting on this board are less likely than others to spend $1k per night on a hotel, which is not remotely true. There are far more big travel spenders here than average, even for upper middle class circles.

        2. I’m trying to figure out if you’re old money or like nouveau riche and bad with budgeting.

          2. lol, my budget is fine. Like the OP, we bank 60% of our take home pay, dinks, I just enjoy my life and take advantage of doing nice things when I can. I have more money than time and I’m not saving every cent for a rainy day.

    15. Even my wealthier friends wouldn’t spend $1k a night on a hotel room when there are perfectly fine cheaper options. That’s just ridiculous.

      1. +1 I have a friend who owns a $10 million dollar home who I’m pretty sure has never spent this much on a hotel, and usually stays in $300/night Marriott type places when she travels. It’s really not normal or attainable for the average upper middle class professional to drop $1k a night on a standard hotel room.

      2. yeah, I make mid-high six figures and wouldn’t spend that kind of money on a hotel room except maybe for a major milestone birthday or anniversary trip. But I also am not a huge traveler so that’s prob part of it.

    16. To me, cheap is being ungenerous with money, such as insisting on getting paid back if you cover something that’s $5 for a friend, or dividing a restaurant bill for two exactly versus just 50/50 if you got about the same thing.

      However, I don’t think it’s “cheap” to evaluate that something isn’t worth the cost, which is what it sounds like you’re doing here. “Cheap” would be going for the least expensive possible option, period. It sounds like you have a set of standards for your accommodations that could be met for less than 1k.

      1. This is how I think of it.

        It’s also really selfish of people to insist that others go in on something like a $1,000/night hotel room, no matter how rich you all are. My husband has a lot of rich friends in finance and no one has ever made such a demand. When one of them wanted to have a guys’ weekend in an expensive locale he just rented the house himself and invited the others.

    17. Not cheap.

      I don’t think I’ve ever spent that much per night on a hotel. Usually less than half that (so even the 50/50 split cost would be very high for my travel budget).

      But I think it depends on your priorities and preferences. I know people who would rather save all their money for travel and go super luxe, whereas for me, the hotel is usually just somewhere to sleep between going out and exploring. If the hotel was the whole point of the trip, I might be willing to up my budget. However, it certainly seems a weird choice for a group trip to assume everyone is willing to spend that much per night!

      1. I spend all my disposable income on travel and this is still nuts to me! I will pay a lot for all-inclusive because at cheap ones the food can be really bad and that ruins a trip for me. But for a basic hotel room, spending this much is a gigantic waste of money, imo.

    18. Where are you going? Are there other nice options that are cheaper? That being said, if all of your other friends are on board with this hotel, I think your options are to deal with it or not go.

    19. Is this, like, a remote resort somewhere or a safari? I just can’t imagine spending $1000 a night in, like, Charleston or wherever, where there are a ton of incredible options at half the price, but if you told me this was an overwater bungalow, then I’d either go or not go depending on whether the overall trip sounded fun.

      2. Overwater bungalows at the St Regis in Bora Bora are still only a bit above $1k/night. I’ve stayed there, it was phenomenal and worth every penny to me. But it’s absolutely wild to me to spend that much for a basic city hotel room. Like, even if you’re rich you should still think about value. You do not need to spend $1k on a basic hotel get high thread count sheets and excellent service.

        1. Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Unless this is a suite that sleeps 8 or is in a rare location…it’s hard for me to imagine the room providing sufficient value that this makes sense irrespective of cheap or not!

    20. I read something once on a financial blog that even if you choose a frugal lifestyle, you should always buy the hardcover on release day if a friend or family member publishes a book. Seemed like a good standard to me.

        1. I am a preorder-er – thank you for making me feel better about myself today! Haha

    21. That is a lot of money. Period. It would have to be a bucket list destination with a loved one for me to consider spending that on a room. That is simply not a priority for me, but also it is just plain a lot. I make good money at $300k/yr. When I think about it, I take home about $200k, and so I can spend $1000 200 times a year if I don’t save. I am not going to spend that on a room when I can easily pay half of that instead and have effectively the same experience.

    22. Cheap is when you pass costs on to other people. That is, you don’t rent or own a car to save money but are CONSTANTLY bumming rides off other people.

      1. Ooh, this! Or you order the expensive entree and dessert and two cocktails, and insist on splitting the bill equally.

      3. +1! Or you refuse to hire movers and want your friends to help you. Or bum rides to the airport an hour away rather than take Uber.

      4. Or you insist on crashing for 48 hours at your sibling’s already overcrowded home during a busy, stressful time and then want them to lend you their only functioning car that is already shared by three people or drive you everywhere you want to go, just to save $100 on a plane ticket.

    23. I think it just depends on how much you value the experience of a 5 star hotel. I personally love luxury and convenience. I am not 100% sure I have ever stayed in one (does Stowe Lodge in 2012 count?), but when I have splurged on whatever hotel was at the top of my budget, I have nearly always enjoyed it (every now and then places aren’t as advertised) . I like all the little extra comforts you get in a fancier place (e.g, real glasses and mugs instead of paper for the coffee; the bedding is usually nicer). I especially like it if they have amenities like a spa or swimming pool on site so it is convenient to use, or high quality restaurants on site. Higher end places usually have room service, lower end places do not. I like having a concierge available to help with logistics. I like having bellhops available to carry my luggage if I want them to, and door people to fetch taxis for me, and the option of valet parking.

      However, I drive a very basic car (Honda Fit) and plan to drive it until it dies, don’t spend much on clothes or beauty treatments or jewelry. I have a very old phone and will use it until it bricks itself. If you can afford it, spend on things you enjoy. And sometimes, with group travel, you make compromises by spending a little more than you normally would to help others in the group enjoy what they like.

      1. My experience with more expensive hotels is that they are often less nice than the cheaper ones. The dirtiest hotels I’ve stayed in, and those with the worst service, have almost always been the most expensive. This includes some supposedly luxurious places like a Ritz-Carlton and the Greenbrier.

    24. OMG, I cannot fathom ever spending $1k on a hotel room. Ever. My mom was a flight attendant and I used to travel with her as a kid (yay, ’80s) and I’ve stayed in all the DoubleTrees, Hiltons, Marriots, et al, you can imagine, and they’re all absolutely FINE. At this stage in my life, I won’t go below that tier, but we’re the type of people who don’t find the *stay* to be part of the vacation; the stay is just where you sleep to get to the fun stuff outdoors. And I guess that’s a fundamental viewpoint difference.

      1. One of my work friends went to a Maui the same week my family and I did. He shoved his family of five (couple + preteen and teen kids) into the smallest room at the nicest resort on the island. We went got a midrange resort and a nicer room type for our family of four to get a separate sleeping area for us vs the preteens.I commented that the sleeping arrangements for his family must have been tight and he said “who cares, we’re not there for the room” which to me just pointed out that we have completely different travel styles!

        For me, I am down for a girls trip but I want my own bathroom. Basically I don’t want to share a room at all. My last girls trip was with my sister and I had a bout of food poisoning. That was not fun, and she complained about it non stop, as if I could have just turned it off in order not to bother her. It’s a private room for me from here on out. I snore too, so that’s another consideration.

    25. I am not known for being cheap, in fact, I probably spend too much, but I have never in my life spent $1000 on a hotel room. Just one more point of feedback for you.

    26. For context, we are on track to spend six figures on travel this year (our first year of retirement so we went BIG) and the one time we spent $1,000/night on a hotel a couple of years ago (because the hotel was chosen by somebody else), it was a huge deal and we are still talking about it three years later. We are usually able to get quite nice rooms anywhere in the world for about half that. So no, if you think it’s expensive you are not being cheap. I will say if you can afford it and choose not to participate because of some idea that “hotels shouldn’t cost that much,” then maybe you are being cheaper-than-appropriate for your friend group/income/lifestyle.

      1. And reading more closely I see you are going along but are secretly shocked. Which is what I did when I was in the same situation!

        1. This scenario reminds me of the current trend towards expensive destination bachelor3tt3 parties. Nobody really wants to spend that much or has that much to spend, but everyone goes along because it’s expected. Maybe people should start speaking up.

          2. For wedding related stuff, you may find your room is expensive because that’s a deal the bride worked to get her/their room comped. If I’m paying a subsidy, I would prefer to know up front.

            Famously in my family, the room block for a wedding was ridiculously expensive and several guests / family members just booked outside the room block and the bride had an absolute meltdown because the room block bookings were supposed to subsidize both her suite and a reception venue. No one knew! They were just like “oh look, I googled and found a better deal!”

    27. Cheap is when I decide to make sure I don’t subsidize other people’s alcoholic drinks at a group dinner because I’m a teetotaler, so I offer to do the split bill calculations and get petty and even split up the alcohol tax and food tax by person. Because I’m the single person who makes the least (just under 100k a year, so it’s not like I’m really struggling) in a group of coupled up friends. I don’t do this all the time, it’s just when the 5 other people decide to have more than 2 beers at dinner, those things add up real fast in the HCOL area I live in.

      Frugal is when I don’t want to pay more than $300 a night for a hotel in places where there are lots of options, and I’m perfectly fine with a Holiday Inn Express, because I can spend the money on a nicer experience.

    28. When frugality supercedes any other concern (time, effort, social mores, relationships, quality, etc) is my short and sweet definition.

    29. I think it’s more important to spend your money on what you value than worrying about if you’re cheap. However, I also think it’s bad manners to make that kind of financial decision without everyone’s opinion. I make more than a lot of my friends and stay where they are comfortable spending. It’s just a common courtesy.

  6. I’m looking for a boot that could serve a similar purpose to Blundstones but that are made for a female foot. My Blundstones just are not comfortable for me, but I need a good rugged slip on boot that can handle months of rain and puddles/dirt. Preferably chelsea style but open to others as long as they slip on. I have a collection of lovely boots I wear to the office, I’m not looking for any more of those!

    1. Hush Puppies? I have the Amelia (leather, not suede) and they are my most comfortable boots. I wouldn’t snowshoe in them, but they handle midwest winder sidewalk muck with no issues and clean up nicely.

    2. I have very “female” feet (size 6, narrow side of medium width, low volume) and have a pair of Birkenstock Stalons that have held up beautifully for many years, seem to be waterproof, and although not squishy-cushy are comfortable for all day wear.

      1. Arita makes great, comfortable boots. I love and have worn their waterproof hiking boots for 20 years.

  7. What powder bronzers do you like? I wear bronzer daily to add dimension to my foundation but the sparkly one I bought at a drugstore when I ran out of my last Sephora pick isn’t doing me any favors. I would prefer no sparkles but open to thoughts!

    2. Benefit Hoola is a very popular matte option. I really like the Jones Road powder bronzer (comes in a light shade that’s great for blondes/very fair).

    5. Bobbi Brown in Golden Light or Medium. Get the very expensive bronzer brush from the same line and you’ll never look back. I swear I will never see the bottom of this pour either. It’s very generous.

  8. A friend has asked for my help in setting up a gallery wall for her collection of vintage family photos. Is anyone aware of an online resource where I can get help in plotting this out? I know how many frames she has and the sizes. I tried ChatGPT but it wasn’t very helpful.

    1. This is not going to be the answer you want but the newspaper and masking tape trick really is the best. Laying it out full size with paper really helps with the visualization.

      1. If she has the frames already and enough floor space to represent the wall, laying them out on the floor is even simpler than testing cutouts on the wall (but if doing the paper cutouts & wall method, poster putty is easier to rearrange than masking tape).

    2. She needs to cut out paper and tape it on the wall and play around with it. There is no one right way.

    4. In this situation, I’d just create a blank slide in powerpoint and create boxes which are all proportional to the sizes of the frame. Like maybe 0.6″ x 0.8″ for a 6×8 frame.

      That will let you drag them around and see virtually.

      For bonus points, you could also add a photo of wall in question, but might need to fuss a bit to get the scale right. (Put something in the photo of a known size!)

  9. Post baby, and I need to update the tops I wear under suits for court and formal, external facing meetings. I usually buy at BR, JCrew type places. Have you bought anything interesting or a workhorse recently? I prefer sleeves so I can take my jacket off, and I don’t love fussy collars because they’re hard to mix and match with different blazer collars.

    1. MM LaFleur has some pretty blouses that would work, If you like color and pattern, check out The Kit. Their tag line is “You have enough basics.”

    2. I bought a few nice satin-y tops from BR Factory recently. They drape a bit which hides my mom pooch and hold up better than the silk tops from Quince.

      1. I also refreshed my closet from BRF recently and love almost every top I purchased. The fabric is nice and substantial (not flimsy or see through) and the details make them slightly elevated rather than basic.

    3. I just got several new tops from JCrew Factory. Check out the popover placket blouse if you want long sleeves – there are plain and shadow striped versions right now. There was also a basic short sleeve crepe top that would work well under blazers.

  10. What are people doing with their finances to prepare for a Trump presidency? Based on what I’m seeing with these cabinet picks it’s going to be even worse than I expected with zero competent people in charge. The likelihood they crash the economy seems high (republicans have been in charge during pretty much all recessions over the last 50 years). Elon has endorsed the idea of presidents intervening in fed policy which is horrifying and has historically led to economic collapse in other countries. Tariffs = inflation. I was planning to sell some stocks, but my dad pointed out in a hyperinflationary environment you would need stocks vs cash. So I’m not sure what to do. So far just planning to buy a car before the end of the year since that would certainly be affected by tariffs. What are others doing?

    2. I’m doing nothing differently, because my core financial principle is to not be reactionary. I did not alter my finances during the first Trump admin, during COVID, or (I’m old!) during the 2008 recession. I am not going to do so now.

      Frankly, your question contains a lot of catastrophizing and apocalyptic thinking that will not contribute to rational decision making. Whatever you think of the current political moment (and I suspect we both don’t like it!), jumping all the way to “economic collapse” is going to be wildly unhelpful for you as you make choices.

      I say the above, but I also acknowledge that I make conservative, long-term financial decisions in general, and I am not on the margins of society. If I were on the margins, I’d be piling up cash and cutting discretionary spending to ensure I had a proper emergency fund. But again, I’d be doing that anyway, because that’s not a reaction to the moment—it’s just something adults should be striving to have in any economy.

      1. Agreed. I hate Trump and think he will be terrible for the country in general, but I am doing nothing different. I have a financial planning strategy that is meant to withstand the ups and downs of the market. My mortgage renews in early 2026 so I am a bit curious what will happen with the rates, but I would have looked out for that under a Harris administration too. The best thing we can do is stay the course, vote with our dollars and our ballots, and keep fighting the good fight.

      3. +1 I save and invest for the long term, with the assumption that there will be large economic upheavals from time to time. It has served me when in unpredictable times. The economy and the stock market go up and down, companies fail, industries change unexpectedly.

        In 2019, I worked at a very stable, profitable litigation firm and was set to make partner. In 2020, all the courthouses were closed and my firm shut down its office in my city altogether. I never worried about paying my bills once, because I have lived below my means and saved for years. (I was not prepared for the emotional toll of the pandemic, but that’s another story!)

      6. Agreed. Our money is all in retirement accounts that we won’t touch for nearly 30 years, so there’s really nothing to do except ride out the market lows. I will say though that we’re closing in on $1M in retirement savings and I will be really bummed if it crashes and it takes us years to get back there because it feels like such a big milestone. I realize that it’s only $1 more than $999,999 and a crash is a crash regardless of how much you have but this number has felt just barely out of reach for so long and I want to just get there.

      7. Just bringing back pre-existing conditions could be financially “catastrophic” for some of us, even if the economy isn’t otherwise disrupted.

        3. Right. But unfortunately, there is no “preparing” for that other than doing the things you would be wise to do anyway: staying up to date with preventative and maintenance care, taking what steps you can to mitigate long-term risks of disease progression, and making sure life insurance is in place if you have dependents.

          I have a serious pre-existing condition and will be absolutely fucked if this happens. I’m not discounting the possibility that it will happen or the impact if it does. But I lack the resources or ability to do anything to mitigate the consequences of a national policy change. (That’s precisely why this policy change would be such a disaster for so many). All I can do is what I am doing, and I think that’s probably true for most of us.

      8. Long-term strategies no longer apply to those of us nearing retirement; we don’t have time to recover losses. What are folk here who are older doing to prepare for chaos in the economy under Trump?

        1. If you are nearing retirement, the time horizon for some of your money is still 30-40 years, and you have probably already started shifting the money you will use earlier in retirement to less risky investments.

          1. Nope still all 100% in stocks, given as you say the continuing 30-40 year horizon. Thank you for the reminder! Maybe should capture some of the recent gains and throw them into a CD or money-market or similar. for the “early retirement” years.

    3. Only thing I’m doing is less spending and more saving for when everything costs more.

      1. Same. And cutting back on frivolous spending to save $$$ – I work in retail and am worried that my industry could see layoffs.

    4. If we hadn’t just replaced our older, falling-apart car I would do it ASAP. If we could afford to do the very necessary home renovation we’ve been waiting on, I’d do that too before labor and material prices skyrocket. Otherwise, tightening our budget and shoring up cash savings as much as possible in case of inflation and/or layoffs. Our retirement investment strategy will not change.

      1. Yeah my partner and I were talking about this today. Both our cars are ~20 years old and I don’t think we’re going to get another 4 years out of them.

      1. I started buying a gold index fund in 2016 as a hedge and it has done very well. I finally realized some gains on it this year because it did so well I like to hedge my hedge, I guess.

      3. My sister’s soon-to-be-ex reportedly has a bunch of gold and silver coins lying around in his gun safe. She’ll happily split them with him in a property settlement, assuming he doesn’t squirrel them away and lie about his financial status.

      4. Married to a non-Trump prepper. He admitted to buying silver a while back. But I do feel safe in the case of the apocolypse.

        1. See, I get that you will see the value appreciate in uncertain times, because people flock to gold. I don’t have strong feelings about that. What am I going to do with gold and silver in the apocalypse? You can’t eat it. You can’t defend yourself with it.

    6. So, I survived the 90s in Russia so I remember hyperinflation well. Your dad is right — cash won’t help if we get to that point. The ruble went from about .60 to the dollar around 91 to around 6,000 to the dollar around 94 or so (and then about 36,000 during the crash in 97) — imagine dividing all your cash by 10,000. My aunt lost her entire inheritance from her parents (30k rubles — a huge sum in soviet times), and her brother who “wasted” his on a car came out ahead.

      Will staying invested in the stock market help? I have no idea, but I think Trump is surrounded by a lot of really rich people who are heavily invested in the stock market and that not screwing their bottom line will be priority #1. So I’m keeping all my investments where they are (broad index funds) and continuing my retirement savings as normal.

      As for other prep — I am mentally preparing for austere times. My job is pretty secure, but my partner’s is less so. If I needed any appliances or a new car, I would buy that now. The only thing I arguably need is new winter boots, so I’m getting those now and after that will hunker down and hold on to a reasonable amount of cash to help in case prices skyrocket in the short term. I’ve inventoried my home and family possessions to make sure we are set for what we need for the next 6 months to a year (including checking medication stocks and expiration dates). I’m not going crazy buying shelf stable foods, but if I see something we regularly use on sale (like shampoo) I might stock up a bit more than usual. I think its too hard to predict what you will need and what products will be affected, so I’m trying to balance.

      The thing that helped my family the most in the 90s is the skills of cooking, making food stretch, growing much of our own vegetables and canning them, making jams, sewing and knitting our own clothes. My mom to this day refuses to sew, knit, or can/jam anything, and will not grow anything edible, because it reminds her of those times. Thankfully I learned all those skills so I’m confident that I could stretch whatever money and possessions we have pretty far if necessary.

    7. We’re olds, and remember multiple recessions. We pulled $$ out of the stock market before the dot.com bubble burst and are pulling $$ out now. I had colleagues who lost everything and had to unretire. I am deeply hoping it isn’t our turn to have to do the same. But we have people in charge now who truly don’t care who they hurt in the quest to make things great for billionaires.

    8. I will buy a new car this month, before prices increase and inventory decreases further.
      I will hold onto my rental portfolio for now, because I think Trump will protect real estate investors.
      I will hold onto my stock portfolio, but as stocks rise I will take some profits to pay down my rental portfolio.
      If Trump forces the Fed to lower interest rates, I might re-finance my rentals and buckle down for the long haul. But if property prices have a melt-up, I also might sell.
      I will watch the stock market for a melt-up and be prepared to sell a good amount (25%?) to mitigate my risk to crash.
      I will learn to grow vegetables, since I already own land.

    9. Someone here recently indicated she was doing as much deferred home maintenance as possible, before the labor market in this country is reduced significantly through mass deportations and the remaining labor/trades people are scarce and become more expensive. I guess also invest in stuff that will either be useful or hold intrinsic value as opposed to cash, or that might be sold or bartered in future, if necessary? Chaos, here we come!

  11. If you’re a manager, how transparent are you with your team? Right now another team sort of screwed us over on something. Obviously I’m not going to word it that way, but I’m inclined to tell the team why things have had to move around so much and why they have to crash on something all of a sudden – other team skipped some steps they should not have.

    1. I look to my own manager for guidance on this kind of thing. But generally, my view is facts are facts and can be shared unless confidential or highly sensitive. You don’t have to editorialize, but saying, “Z department didn’t complete deliverable ABC by Y, so ABC is now on our plate,” or whatever the situation is.

    2. I find being as transparent as possible is better. It helps the staff understand what is going on rather than reacting (probably in a negative way) without having all the facts.

      2. This. My last boss and her main henchman seemed to think that everyone more than 1 level below her was a complete moron and/or oblivious. This is not the case. People talk, people put 2 and 2 together, and if you as a leader are failing to address an elephant in the room, you are missing an opportunity to get ahead of rumors and build trust.

  12. Where are you going? Are there other nice options that are cheaper? That being said, if all of your other friends are on board with this hotel, I think your options are to deal with it or not go.

  13. I am about to save some marriages and long-term partnerships.

    Years ago here, in a discussion about snoring bed partners, I recommended the Bose Sleepbuds noise-canceling ear buds. They were amazing but Bose took them off the market once, re-introduced them, and then shut down production. Of course right after that, one of my sleepbuds stopped working.

    It took years, but some former Bose employees bought the technology and are now making essentially the same product under the name Ozlo Sleepbuds. They had a kickstarter sort of thing and took pre orders but I did not order then because there were just so many delays and explanations and more delays. WELL, they have finally hit the market. I ordered them and they are great! They are comfortable, they block snoring but not loud noises (you will still hear your child call out) and they play wonderful white noise all night. I highly recommend them and no longer hate my husband. I had been trying to sleep with my Airpods Pro and a white noise app but they are not comfy and did not stay in,

    1. I am very interested in these. The foam ones don’t really do much.

      I do wonder…is there any hearing risk associated with playing the white noise right in your ear? I’ve used a bluetooth speaker on my nightstand before, but wonder about the long-term use of something like this.

    2. I tried and returned the Bose Sleepbuds. They were terribly uncomfortable and did not really block the snoring. Separate bedrooms is the way.

    3. Make sure the snoring partner gets a sleep study! I was the snorer for years and it turns out I have sleep apnea.

  14. I’m going to Amsterdam for work in early February and would like to visit another destination for up to a week on vacation after, since I’ll already be in Europe. Would love suggestions for places that are a convenient plane/train ride from Amsterdam and not miserable in February.

    I’ve been to a bunch of good options like Portugal, London, Paris, Barcelona, Brussels, and Rome recently…could go back but would prefer to try something new. I like food, sightseeing, and art/culture, and would prefer weather that’s not absolutely freezing (not expecting warm). Not a skier.

    My initial thoughts are Scotland (never been and really want to go, but doubting February is a good time), southern Spain, Venice and/or Florence, or even Morocco.

    1. I would do Florence if I was you. Ita a beautiful city but way too busy in peak season, so you get to actually enjoy the city with no crowds.

      1. I have been to Florence in December and it was lovely. Chilly, but not miserable at all, and super charming. I would do Southern Europe – Scotland is beautiful, but in February it’s going to be dreary.

      2. I love Florence! We went in early March and the weather was lovely. I think we got a bit lucky but it was sunny and in the 60s most days and we ate essentially all our meals outdoors (this was 2022 and we were still quite Covid cautious).
        I also love Seville, which should be quite a bit warmer than Florence in February (google says average high of 64 vs 55 in Florence). I think they have very similar vibes and they’re two of my favorite European cities.

    3. Berlin! Quirky neighborhoods, good food scene, the 35th anniversary of the fall of the wall, and a great spa if the weather doesn’t cooperate.

    4. This is your opportunity to see the Alhambra outside peak tourist season and when it is not beastly hot in southern Spain, so I would recommend you visit Granada/Malaga and get tickets to the Alhambra and the gardens ahead of time. If anyone has tips for Granada/the Alhambra, I would welcome them — I tried to plan a trip to Granada around Thanksgiving several years ago (again, to avoid throngs and hot weather), but then the COVID-19 pandemic hit. Many thanks in advance!

      1. We stayed at the Parador hotel in the Alhambra. Really unique and memorable setting. It was one of the highlights of our Seville, Costa del Sol, Granada, Madrid trip.

  15. Speaking of travel…I recently snagged very cheap flights into Glasgow for two weeks in July. Never been to Scotland, Ireland, but love London.

    Any recommendations for how to structure our travel? Husband and I love outdoor adventure (have done a fair amount of hiking to remote backcountry lodges in Norway, Canada). Willing to splurge in between rustic stays, love unique/different lodging, like whisky/Scotch (but not like crazy aficionados), willing to travel via train/air mid trip. Don’t golf.

    I’ll take any and all tips! Love specific lodging ideas in particular

    3. We used Fort William as the hub of our hub and spoke travel. It’s a great base for exploring the Highlands. For lodging, definitely book at least a couple nights in a historic crofter’s cottage. (That’s where we spent our entire trip.) Also look into the National Trust properties – to pay for their upkeep, the UK rents them out like AirBnbs. Yeah I wanna stay in a castle!! https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/holidays

      PS – There’s a grocery store named Co-op you’ll grow to appreciate. We grabbed their pre-made deli sandwiches and a bag of crisps and a drink everyday for lunch. It’ll cost you a fortune and take forever if you have stop at restaurants for every lunch when you just want to be out hiking. Our cottage had a kitchen, so we did cold cereal every morning for breakfast. We made sure to eat authentic local food in the evenings.

      PPS – strong vote for Co-op’s curry chicken salad sandwich!

    4. 2 weeks in Scotland is a dream. There’s a FB page called Scotland Travel Tips which actually has some great ideas for itineraries. For specific lodging ideas – the Torridon hotel in the highlands is fantastic. It’s a restored Victorian hunting lodge. Great hiking nearby including a couple of Munroes. Beautiful views, fabulous service. Spendy but worth it for the experience in my view. We took the train to Inverness and had Torridon Private Hire pick us up and drive us there – you can also get the train to Achnasheen and have them pick you up there. Hamish and Donald were our drivers and they were charming. We spent 3 nights there in 2023 and have reservations to return.

    5. I recommend at least a brief stay at the Claichaig Inn in Glencoe. It’s a little south of Fort William but the immediate area is spectacular. The Inn has decent rooms but the pub is the real draw. Lots of local beers and whisky. There are plenty of easy, moderate and hard hikes in the area.

      Other places I loved: Fort William (for convenience), Tobermory on the Isle of Mull, Isle of Sky. Highly recommend the train journey, I think it’s called the West Highland line.

      You can also buy a package for a multi-day trek, e.g. the West Highland Way. You pay one company and they arrange all your accommodation and they transport your bags from one hotel to the next. You just hike all day with a daypack and arrive at the next stop. I did it a few years ago and it was fabulous. You can choose to do only a portion of the whole trail, which gives you flexibility to do other things.

    6. We were there last June. Don’t miss driving through Glencoe and if you find yourself near Oban, consider staying at Barcaldine Castle. It’s a wonderful place set in some really glorious scenery and it’s more of a true B&B rather than a hotel. I was resistant to going to Scotland (more of a city traveller) and I absolutely loved it the entire trip.

  16. Holiday gift question – I work at a university and we’re talking about holiday gifts for staff. The general consensus among my office senior leadership is that a token, branded gift feels like a hollow offering.

    So my question is, would you want a holiday gift from your office? The budget is generally $25-50ish per person, so it truly is a token gift.

    1. Gift card to Target. Seriously, I used to get these as a low-paid employee of a nonprofit and they were very much appreciated.

        1. Target is more fun than Amazon, and fewer people have objections to shopping there. To me an Amazon gift card says “go spend hours sifting through a poorly curated website because it’s the only place you can buy a particular thing you’re looking for.” Target says “have fun browsing the aisles” or “bonus–we’ve covered your weekly shopping!”

      2. +1 million from a higher ed staff member! I personally prefer Target for ethical reasons but would use A-zon as well. Please no branded stuff. I have tons already and it feels very forced. And I don’t think $50 is a token gift at all — I’ve never gotten anything worth anywhere near that much ;)

      3. We did Target gift cards at my office one year and people appreciated it more than anything else we ever did so we kept doing it and they kept loving it. Plus it’s super easy.

    3. Target gift card, no question. Please don’t waste money making your staff figure out what to do with some random branded thing.

    4. I think Target is a safe choice, but if you’ve got a popular lunch spot near you that can be a fun option. I am in higher ed and across the street from my building is a Chipotle/Cava/Crumbl/Panera selection and many people frequent the stores… a $25 gift card is usually about two lunches to one of those places, so it could be a little treat.

      1. +1 or whatever the favorite coffee place on campus is.
        Another idea that would go over well with university staff would be a few days of parking in the fancy lot, you know the one where the tenured faculty and donors park. Those parking passes were the prize for competitions in graduate school and they were hotly fought over.

    5. It wasn’t a holiday gift, but a previous company gave me a lovely, very high quality everyday pen. It felt substantial and had a minimalist very “designed” look to it. That felt like a reasonable gesture that was better thought out than the coozie or keychain, etc.

  17. I do not like my desk setup. The first is I think the easier question- I have two monitors and I plug in a lap top. The laptop always feels in the way. Does anyone have good monitor risers they like or something like that? Any great desk accessories?

    The second is the furniture layout I think. Square office. right now L shaped desk with cabinets along the left side wall (when looking into from the door). The door is all the way to the right of the square. The L pushes up against the front wall. I have my computers facing that wall, because I dont like my back to the doorway and I dont like monitors in between me and the doorway. the back wall is all windows. Where would you put your monitors? As I am typing this out I am wondering if moving the whole set up back a foot or two would help.

    1. Get a large, single screen curved monitor instead of the two. That will solve most of your problems.

      1. I have this at home and absolutely love it. I’ve been seriously considering buying myself one for the office too, because I strongly prefer it over two monitors. FYI, they are often labeled as “gaming” monitors. Time to go check the Black Friday deals!

    2. I use old law school textbooks or reams of paper as monitor risers. Classic for a reason!

      1. Lol my current monitor riser is a textbook titled, “Analytical Chemistry and Quantitative Analysis.” This is probably the most use it’s ever seen.

        1. Lol, we have an old edition of the CRC Handbook of Chemistry & Physics propping up our monitor at home.

    3. I shifted my monitor to portrait instead of landscape, and it makes a huge difference for reading documents. It takes up less real estate and is much easier for proofreading.

      1. I use a two monitor setup with one portrait for text work and one landscape for powerpoints etc. Works very well (plus saves a little space, but that’s not the main reason).

    4. Do you keep your laptop open and use it as one of your screens? If so, you do need to raise it up to be a good height to be side by side with your external monitor (s). There was one recommended on here actually. I like it because it gives me a little storage below the laptop. I will try to find it and link it.

    5. Can you hook up an external keyboard rather than using the laptop keyboard? Then the laptop can be situation wherever, and the keyboard can be placed where ergonomically comfortable.

  18. Frivolous topic: I’m hosting a holiday party the Saturday after Thanksgiving and want your best tips! We usually do a Friendsgiving with our inner circle but I’m expanding the guest list this year (should be ~30ish people, a mix of adults and their teen/tween kids) and changing the format. Rather than me making the bulk of a Thanksgiving-adjacent dinner, I asked everyone who wants to bring something to bring their favorite fall food and the invitation also instructed attendees to wear elastic waist pants. I’m thinking a cozy, casual vibe but still well-planned and hostess-y if that makes sense. My plan is to provide a meat-based main (all are meat eaters)…maybe hot sandwiches? Something else? Also, what other details do you think feel festive without being over-the-top? I was thinking a fun drink or punch, bowls of snacks scattered throughout the house…what else? I’m feeling especially grateful for our friends so I want this to be extra good.

    1. Then don’t make it a potluck. I’d be so annoyed at being asked to bring food to a “party” the week after thanksgiving.

      1. What a weirdly negative response! OP, you know your friend group – mine really love bringing something to contribute, and definitely would not be annoyed (I am clearly not friends with Anon @ 11:09!).

        That sounds very nice, and I agree that a fun drink is good. I always feel like a home filled with good smells is extra welcoming, so maybe mulled wine or cider?

        1. A potluck is the exact opposite of well planned and “hostess-y” which is what the OP is going for. Some ideas instead of just being negative as I was and remain on the concept would be do a soup party where you make a few options and serve with great crusty bread. You could do a table of heavy apps. Have a grilled cheese and tomato soup party – easy to make all that ahead of time and heat up.

      2. Yea, I’m sorry but if you’re hosting then…host. If you’re in an age group or a region where potlucks are more of a thing then feel free to ignore me but even as a broke 22yr old when I hosted parties I supplied all the food/drinks.
        I’d probably go with a room temperature cut of meat – like a ham or a beef tenderloin, carved, for folks to make sandwiches with or eat with sides. Alternately chili, soup, or stew with appropriate sides (crusty bread, corn bread, green salad, toppings) would be nice and can be kept warm via crockpots.

      3. In that case, you’d decline the invitation. I host all the time, and people are constantly asking what they can bring. This seems like an easy way to direct them.

        1. When I am hosting, people often ask what they can bring. My answer is always “just your smiling face!”…. I often end up with extra bottles of wine or flowers, but most people usually don’t bring food.

          1. Same, though I do have a friend who always stops at a bakery and picks up an assortment of really pretty and yummy cookies. She is a welcome guest!

      4. Well, thanks Anon x2 for the no-potluck feedback. I agree, that if you host then HOST — but yes, this is still a relatively close friend group that likes to bring stuff and show off their cooking skills, which is why I changed it up this year. Also, not that I need to justify myself to an internet stranger, but I always add the caveat that people should only bring something if they feel so moved — that all are welcome empty-handed.

        1. ^that was my thought too; in my circles half of the fun of Friendsgiving is that people /want/ a chance to bring & show off & share the story of some family recipe. It sounds like your friends are the same!

      6. This response is really out of sync with my own circle. Are you anti potluck generally or primarily on the heels of a big holiday where you already have lots of special food hubbub going on?
        When I invite people they always want to bring something, they always want to help clean up and even offer to do dishes. People bring elaborate homemade things or a bag of chips and it’s all good.

      7. Eh, in my social circle it’s pretty standard for “hey I’m hosting dinner on Tuesday- can you come” to be met with “sounds great! what can I bring? bread/wine/dessert/salad etc”

        Not a formal potluck but more of an everyone pitches in a bit.

    2. Man alive what a strange bunch today. This isn’t any different than a cookout with the neighbors. The house that’s hosting does the burgers, everyone else brings a side.

      You could do hot turkey sandwiches. (What is the Hot Brown from Kentucky? Seen it, never had it.) Or what about those hot ham sliders using Hawaiian rolls and a poppy seed butter? A pan of each?

      I just discovered this mocktail the other week at an event and I’m obsessed now: ginger beer + sparkling apple cider, 50/50ish. Garnish with a cinnamon stick if you’re feeling fancy ha. I drink it, my husband likes it, I turned the neighbors onto it… It’s just good and easy. Add bourbon if it needs a kick.

      I can’t think of any appropriate snacks. Homemade chex mix if you really amp up the spice? (Regular chex mix never has enough spice for me.) Don’t forget a spoon. Hershey kisses? (Individually wrapped is always good for crowds…)

      1. I’m 4 hours behind the east coast so I always start reading here when there are already tons of comments and sometimes you can just tell immediately that everyone woke up on the wrong side of bed.

      2. The Hot Brown is delicious but very high-effort and it must be eaten immediately upon assembly. It’s an open-faced turkey sandwich with bacon and tomato, broiled with cheese sauce on top.

        1. +1, Hot Browns would be a great idea. I believe the Brown Hotel in Louisville publishes their recipe. To-die-for.

          1. I would not want to make Hot Browns for 30 people, and they don’t sit out well.

    3. I’d do the core meal and ask for help with sides.
      I’d suggest making an appetizer (chips+ crudite and dip), a meaty main+ a vegetarian main, and a box of ice cream, and ask for volunteers to bring salad, hot sides, bread, wine and dessert- if no one brings anything you’d still have a full meal.

    4. Half-Baked Harvest has a cider braised pot roast that is incredible and very fall. Could make a good main. I love the idea of a punch bowl (freezing ice in leaf-shaped molds makes this extra cute), and I think autumn floral arrangements throughout would be lovely, and kind of a fun high/low mix when paired with everyone in their comfortable attire. I also think no autumn party is complete without caramel apples. Gertrude Hawk makes some insanely delicious caramel and chocolate ones I’ve used as party favors, and people go wild for them.

    5. I think you lean away from Thanksgiving altogether. Everyone will be sick of turkey and leftovers by then. No turkey. No mashed potatoes. No pies. If it’s a potluck ask everyone to bring their favorite non-Thanksgiving dishes. Certainly, no one should be making another giant roast turkey. How about something fresher and lighter, then a group walk? It’s Small Business Saturday that day – are you close to a strip of local businesses you can walk by and check out? That’s a big day for me to hit my local street of shops for some early Christmas shopping.

  19. Any good books for families for how to help a parent with chronic kidney disease (CKD) with diet and a general overview? Parent is at stage 3b, which is just before dialysis would start. Sort of a surprise to me (the DX and having to step in).

    1. A dietician! You don’t need to learn this there are professionals to do it and they are probably covered by insurance.

      1. OP we are playing phone tag with them and a nephrologist. Until then, I’d love to understand the science and the disease a bit more, especially if this is now a family history thing for me and my kids. There are some good standards for pregnancy and the first year — what is there for CKD? It seems so common based on the number of local dialysis centers I drive past.

        1. It’s a lot to learn. CKD groups have been advocating for labeling requirements to make things easier, but we don’t have this yet.

    2. You have to learn this from the nephrologist/their nutrition expert.

      Meanwhile, I would join a Facebook group specifically for folks/caregivers of folks with chronic kidney disease. They will give great tips and often share the references that the doctors give recommendations from.

  20. Fun shopping help please! I want a jumpsuit or two-piece set to wear to holiday parties. Red, green, or metallic. They will be paired with giant Christmas tree earrings.

    I never buy fun clothes so I don’t even know where to look!

    5. I have the Julia Jordan Halter Neck Wide Leg Jumpsuit from Nordstrom and love it. I am long-waisted and was able to make it work with alterations. It comes in red and green. Nordstrom also has some other jumpsuits in better shades of green.

  21. A manager position has opened up at my office and I’ve been encouraged to apply. I’m about to go on maternity leave with my second kid though. I have been assured the hiring process can work around my leave. My question is whether you all think it’s worth it to apply — it does not come with a substantial pay increase, and does increase my responsibilities somewhat (frequent in-person meetings, supervising a team of 6). It’s probably the best opportunity I’ll have to move up for a few years, though. Thoughts?

    1. Do it. The higher you go the more flexibility you will ultimately have. And great sign that they’re encouraging you right before mat leave.

    2. absolutely yes, apply. You may or may not be selected and you can always decide later that you don’t want the job. But don’t count yourself out now before you’ve even had the opportunity to consider it.

    3. If you have been asked to apply, I think you should apply if you want to advance at this company. Even if you aren’t chosen, they will remember that you showed interest in advancement. And they will also remember if you don’t show that interest, esp. if it appears to be because you are focusing on raising children.

    4. I declined applying for a new internal job that the hiring manager was begging me to apply for. I did it mostly because I didn’t want to rock the boat going into my 2nd mat leave. I’m kicking myself for doing that now. Please apply. You can always decline and stay in your current position if the offer doesn’t feel right further into the hiring process.

  22. I am a horrible person.

    MIL is forever texting photos of Grandma with some tagline like, “Can you believe she’s 99? We never know how much time we have left with her!” Except she’s been doing it since I came on the scene a decade ago. She’s been documenting and storing up memories and whatever all as if Grandma’s demise is imminent…for a decade now. (Grandma is in fine health for her age. Has been the whole time I’ve been around.)

    Meanwhile, we get the unholy guilt trip about why we don’t come visit more often. Well, mostly it’s because you’re constantly throwing this weird living funeral for her and can’t spare any time for us when we do come visit. You also won’t spare any time to come visit us because you’d miss out on living funeral days to store up memories. It’s almost the same fervor as having a first child – afraid to leave because you might miss their first steps.

    So weird. So over it. After a number of years of absence, we have to pay the piper this year at Christmas, so DH and I will go and stare at each other while MIL runs around fawning over her perfectly fine mother.

    Horrible person signing off.

    1. I mean, perfectly healthy or not, 99 is 99. If your husband likes his grandmother, even if he’s so-so on his mom right now, I’d probably cheerfully go see her.

      1. Yeah, whether or not it was a false alarm 10 years ago, I think at 99 it’s reasonable to think she will be shuffling off this mortal coil sooner rather than later.

      2. Yeah that was my reaction. Even if she’s in great health, her time is limited at 99.

        1. My own sister just refused to believe this was “it” the last time our mother was hospitalized. She was fed up with all the false alarms (her characterization of our mother’s frequent hospital bouts) and refused to participate. She was taken completely by surprise when our mom died in the hospital just a couple of days later. She has had a really hard time processing it.

          OP, open your mind. A 99 year old is not aging AT you. Your husband should visit her. You should put on your best not-a-horrible-person face and make the best of it.

    2. It’s never horrible to hate guilt trips.

      Is MIL overwhelmed with caregiving, or is she an emotional vampire? Reason is, those are handled differently.

    3. GM is 99, your MIL is taking care of her aged mother, and you’re talking about not getting enough attention?

      1. You know what? People are allowed to have their feelings. And even occasionally vent about them on the internet.

        1. You know what? Whining because you get less attention than a 99 year old grandmother is crappy, on the internet or not.

          1. I don’t think it’s crappy at all! I think it’s pretty normal to not like it when in-laws have really specific expectations for you and guilt trip etc AND that relationship isn’t particularly warm. It’s not great to not spend time with your son and daughter in law on occasion when they come visit.

    4. My dad does this about his mom who is also 99, and he has been doing this since she was in her early 80s. She’s healthy and has lived independently until really recently. I mostly ignore my dad when he talks this way and go see her when I can. I get that this would be really annoying if it were my in-law and I were being guilt tripped. I don’t think you’re that terrible

    5. Can you volunteer to stay and make memories with grandma while MIL takes the day for herself? Send her to the spa for a day and enjoy some peace & quiet without her hovering.

    6. Thinking about this a bit more:

      Normal, healthy people can have ugly emotions. Mindfulness, therapy, prayer, any of those, can help you to process those emotions.

      Substantively: I have people in my own family who cope by meddling in my emotions. If I’m on an even keel – despite being totally grief stricken – they feel the need to put a hand mixer into my emotions and turn it up to “high.” I genuinely believe they feel more in control by pushing me to lose control and be a nonfunctional wreck.

      Long death watches are exhausting. Some people do the decade-long death watch; others take a more Zen approach that we will all one day perish and our job is to simply enjoy the time we have now.

      There are also just people who always need to have something to be buzzing about. Who’s dating, when are they getting engaged, how much does the wedding cost, when are the babies coming, did you hear that he got fired from his job, she gained ten pounds….. If that’s your MIL, you’re annoyed at the buzzing. Consider reframing it that way.

    7. OP here. Since it wasn’t clear in my post, I object to the incessant texts – and line of convo – from MIL about Gma’s imminent demise. Gma herself is a delight and I enjoy spending time with her. It is MIL’s obsession over Gma’s future death that is bonkers and annoys the snot out of me. Remarking daily on a healthy person’s future death isn’t normal.

      And heck yes, there is big annoyance bordering on jealousy/anger that we have to travel to them for the holidays and use our vacation days because – I ish you not – “it might be Gma’s last [holiday].” Repeat please for Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas for a DECADE, and add the reciprocal guilt.

      1. I really think it’s okay for a woman who loves her mom to be scared her mom is going to die soon, even if she’s wrong about the timeline?

        For the record, I also think it’s okay for you to find it emotionally exhausting to manage that fear for a decade. But yeah, if she really loves her mom, the awareness of her impending mortality may be more than she can bear.

        All very human emotions here.

    8. My father said this about both of my grandmothers for 15 years. You know what, he died first and they both outlived him. So, it could be anyone, including grandma.

  23. I am so baffled by this board these days. Care about people, it’s too much. Don’t care enough about people, better cut them off. It’s no wonder we’re in shambles as a society. No one can possibly live up to any one’s expectations of them in exactly the right way and we’ve just all become completely single-minded and completely overwhelmed by our own main character energy.

    1. I definitely get that feeling here often, but the good news is that I don’t in my “real” life. I think it’s one of the downsides to an anonymous place like this, but there are also upsides that keep me coming back.

    2. Sometimes I tell myself that anonymous online spaces like this let otherwise civil people express their worst opinions and maybe they can then go about their day without being horrible to the real people around them.

  24. growing up my mom (who worked full-time) somehow seemed to host another family for a 3 course dinner on Friday nights at least once a month if not more, with primarily homemade stuff. my mom unfortunately passed away a few years ago before I was at the stage of life when I had the space and felt ready to do this, so I can’t ask her what she used to make. i think 3 courses might be a bit much for me, but does anyone have a suggestion for an EASY dairy-free chicken recipe + vegetable side + starch side that go well together?

    1. https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/mexican_green_rice/ (or buy a nice rice pilaf in a box. I like Near East brand and they have a bunch of flavors)
      Or mashed potatoes with olive oil instead of dairy
      https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018974-peruvian-roasted-chicken-with-spicy-cilantro-sauce? (not hard but you do have to start it the day before) Or you can do just plain roasted chicken — mix salt and pepper and paprika together and rub it all over the chicken before you put it in the oven.
      https://www.weightwatchers.com/us/recipe/argentinian-hearts-of-palm-salad/5626a63f3d92b3c10eb8dee0 this is a salad, not a hot side, but it’s very easy, very delicious, and goes well with the chicken and rice
      Little kids like carrots so this is a hit with them: https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/24773/orange-glazed-carrots/ (you could use margarine instad of butter)

      Good luck! Also my best tip is plate the food in the kitchen. Serving family-style just dirties up more dishes and clutters up the table and raises the risk of spills.

    3. Barefoot Contessa roasted chicken. Roast it with potatoes and carrots. Don’t use her gravy recipe–it’s a pain and not very good. A jar is better.

    4. Ina Garden roast chicken, Kenji Lopez roasted potatoes, honeyed roasted carrots and sauteed spinach (from anyone).

  25. how do you balance staying an informed citizen while protecting your own mental health. i realize this might make me sound like a bit of a ‘snowflake,’ but i am finding the news incredibly stressful and anxiety provoking these days, so I realize I could just not read it at all. At the same time, I feel a responsibility to be an informed person and I feel guilty for putting my head in the sand. Sometimes I wish I could just be more selfish, but that’s just not how I was raised or how I’m wired. how do others handle this dichotomy?

    1. You realize that “protecting one’s own mental health” is a new concept, right? I listen to a handful of news podcasts in the morning while I walk the dog (Start Here, the Excerpt, and the Seven) which are a variety of new sources and takes about 30 minutes. I consider it my modern equivalent to the morning paper. And I feel informed but not bound up in ridiculousness.

      1. “Protecting one’s own mental health” is a new concept, but so is 24/7 news coverage. In the olden days people read the morning paper, then disengaged from media for the entire day until they turned on the car radio for their commute home or the evening TV news, then disengaged from the news again to play a board game or read a book or watch a sitcom.

        1. +10000

          Nobody is under any obligation to keep track of every single thing going on in the world.

      2. Oliver Burkeman’s new book (and maybe it’s on his blog) talk a little about this and Cal Newport as well. I think it’s hard to square your self image as informed with news being available 24/7 and 18 million channels. Pick your source and frequency choices and limit them. Probably better if they are separated from algorithms that lead you down rabbit holes.

    2. I don’t think I have an obligation to be informed of everything that occurs everywhere all the time. I feel a responsibility to make informed choices. Those are not the same thing. 24 hour news are a new thing and I’m not convinced it’s a good thing.
      If you are not*acting* on political news at the moment (voting, donating money, protesting, writing to representatives), I think it’s fine to just get a weekly summary. If you are doomscrolling then you aren’t doing anything active. It serves no one.
      I take a break from news when it gets too much, and find myself engaging more productively with news when I’m ready.

      1. This is where I am. Watching/listening to/reading endless ruminations about the same events does not make me more informed. Torturing myself by spending all my time thinking about how the world is going down the toilet does nothing. I know the issues and then vote. And then go do my job that actually helps acutal poor people, and volunteer in my volunteer positions that actually benefit moms and the arts.

      2. +1. I think actual actions help society a whole lot more than being worried or talking with other worried people about how awful something is. Reading news on a weekly basis is fine for the vast majority of people to be informed so they can do something to make things better for themselves and others.

    3. Starting last Tuesday night, I put myself on an information diet so now I’m getting my news from the physical paper delivered 4 days a week and then any incidental headlines or topics I see in other internet forums. I’m keeping Instagram, but deleted Twitter and may not go back and look at my Blue sky account. I do not have a responsibility to think about the crazy 24/7 – hopeful for my sanity I can keep this up.

      2. Me too. Actual paper newspaper and anything I see mentioned here or a couple of other places I frequent. I have some news junkie friends who will alert me to anything of great and immediate importance.

    4. I’ve been struggling with this – I want to be informed but the chaos is just not good for my well-being. A few things I’m doing:
      – Trying to think about what is normal for every presidential transition (every new president gets to fill a cabinet) and what’s not (random department to slash the government which may or may not come to fruition)
      – Following more foreign news sources. The Guardian and the BBC have good perspectives and don’t get as caught up in the daily circus
      – Upped my support of ProPublica
      – Stopped reading any news in the evening between dinner and bedtime. I don’t want to go to bed stressed out, it wrecks my sleep.

    5. I find NPR and similar sources to not provoke stress.

      Consider getting a physical newspaper delivered, if that’s an option where you live. Something about the paper as opposed to the online version makes it easier.

    6. You could try some of the overseas options like the BBC which would report major news and you probably won’t care about their political drama. Or, try independent news that produce a morning newsletter digest and leave it at that.

  26. Cooking/baking question: about 30% of the time, homemade bread that follows the reciepe (meaning no substitutions) seems to turn out completely tasteless, like chewing cardboard or cotton batting or something. It’s bizarre and I can’t find a common thread like a particular cookbook or bread style.
    I am at high altitude so I do have an issue with bread not rising to that lofty, airy state that it might in other locations, but I’m just baffled as to why it’s like biting into the prescription pill bottle stuffing sometimes!
    Anyone an experienced baker that might have ideas here? I just chucked a loaf of supposedly pumpkin brioche that took HOURS to make and was really let down.

    1. It’s salt and fat. You need a good amount of both or it’s going to taste like nothing. Get brand new yeast and make sure you get the rise you’re supposed to get – that may be a warmer place than you think. I like the microwave for this (no power, in case that’s not obvious.)

  27. Do you have a scale? Measuring cups are really inaccurate. Also are you developing the gluten enough?

    1. I do have a scale! I might start doing that. The texture isn’t really an issue but I’m letting it rise for hours (as per the recipe) and kneading when it’s called for etc.

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