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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Since my own office has been heading in a less formal direction, I don’t find myself perusing Ann Taylor’s offerings as much as I used to, but lately I’ve been delighted by what I’m seeing. This tweed patch-pocket jacket would be a great topper for any season.
This summer, I’d pair it with a navy sheath and some tortoiseshell pumps. Once winter comes, I’d swap out the dress for some high-waisted navy trousers, like these fantastic sailor-style pants.
The jacket is on sale for $89.50 (marked down from $179) at Ann Taylor and comes in classic sizes 0-18 and petite sizes 00-16.
Psst: The Nordstrom Half Yearly Sale has started — stay tuned for our top picks for workwear and more!
Workwear sales of note for 5.21.24
Our favorites are in bold!
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has started! Stay tuned for our picks…
- Ann Taylor – 40% off your full-price purchase; extra 40% off sale, including new markdowns
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off your purchase
- Boden – Save 20% when you buy 3+ selected styles
- Eloquii – 50-60% off select styles; up to 40% off everything else
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew Factory – 60% off sunny picks; extra 20% off shoes & accessories; up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Loft – 40% off your purchase
- Lo & Sons – Memorial Day Sale, up to 40% off
- Talbots – 40% off 1 item; 30% off everything else
- White House Black Market – Summer must-haves 40% off
Anon
Recommendations for relatively affordable lingerie brands? Looking to refresh this part of my closet. My style is ‘romantic but comfortable’. I normally buy from Target’s Auden line or H&M but looking to branch out (and open to spending more). I’ve had luck at Aerie in the past but it’s starting to feel too young for me.
Anonymous
I feel like Nordstrom has a good selection. I like Calvin Klein and Natori. YMMv but they do good sales and the reviews are helpful.
Anon
Natori is not a bargain brand but everything is no well made and lovely.
Anon
*so well made
I love their sleepwear too. Their bras tend to be too shallow for me.
Anon
The usual department store brands are fine (Bali, Maidenform, Lilyette, Olga, etc.), as long as they come in your size. As a 36DDD, I have much better luck finding cheap but supportive bras in my size from those brands than anywhere else, though if you’re smaller you can probably find cuter things elsewhere, and if you’re bigger, you probably have to spend a lot more for the expensive brands (that weirdly never seem to fit me very well, other than one or two Wacoal bras I like).
Anon
Felina may have some romantic options. DKNY and CK may have some comfortable options. Make sure you know your real size!
Anon88
I’m a huge fan of OnGossamer mesh underwear, which I buy from Bare Necessities on sale (and looks like they’re having a memorial day sale). They are SO comfy I prefer them over other, more practical underwear. And I know you didn’t put this as a consideration, but in my experience men go crazy over them, so consider that a bonus, if relevant.
testrun
+1 (to both the recommendation and the bonus info)
Anon
Natori is more pricy but worth it, IMO. I’d rather have 2 bras that are good quality and fit really well and just replace every 9-12 months. Which brand will work best for you really varies by your body shape/chest size. I would go to a large department store and get fitted and ask the sales associate to recommend brands for you. You can then wait for sales or choose lower price point options from there. Soma runs regular sales, too.
anon
+1
I also like Natori and Soma.
Anon
I think this is good advice!
Just remember that the department store may or may not carry anything that fits. Last time I tried, they had some options for slim proportions but not really for petite proportions (i.e. the gore is too wide and the straps are too wide set). And the best they could do for a 30DDD was 32D or 30DD, neither of which really fit well. I don’t think I’m that much of an outlier, but I think a lot of people end up having to order online (same as with petite sizing in general I guess!).
PolyD
Smaller band size but larger cup size seems to be hard to find in a lot of stores. My 32DD sympathies.
Anonymous
Same here. I order my 28DD from Natori online.
Anecdata
Now that I know my size, Nordstrom rack seems to get a large pile of natori a couple times a year (at other times there’ll be only very rare sizes) – I’m usually able to stock up for $35 each and I keep a few “in reserve” so I can replace my worn out stuff in my closet separate from their sales schedule
Jane
has anyone tried Honeylove? As a 34 G with apple shaped body I’m getting really tempted. Would love to hear some anecdata/experiences.
LT
I did! 34 DD / apple over here. I got the crossover bra that is constantly marketed on instagram and don’t love it. To be fair I think I could have sized down, but I definitely feel the lack of an underwire.
That said, I LOVE their shapewear. It has boning, which isn’t obvious from the ads, and it works SO WELL and in my opinion is more comfortable and nicer looking than standard spanx or skims. Really happy with the shapewear and will purchase again. Bras, not likely.
Anonymous
I’m sort, short-waisted, and flat chested but with big hips. This is the only jacket shape that works with my proportions.
Anonymous
I’m trying to talk my aging Dad into trying out living with me in my city. I lot would probably be better for him to fly vs drive. That would mean leaving a car in his gets-real-winter long term airport parking lot and locking up the house for a season. If you have done this in your family, send me all your pointers. We just lost mom and that was emotionally trying and hard to help with long distance and with visiting. And also not safe: she had a socking and sudden decline and I don’t want to be in the phone with him and have the phone drop and have to get on a plane to find him 6-12 hours later. I think he’s not emotionally ready to contemplate a permanent move but I also don’t think it’s safe for him to live alone in the winter because he doesn’t cook and sometimes loses power and can’t get off of the mountain he lives on.
Anon
Can you throw money at this situation? Or does he have helpful friends/neighbors near his current home that could help? I would recommend winterizing the house (paying a professional to do it). I would also recommend paying someone to check on the house on weekly or biweekly basis. Finally, I would hire someone to drive him to the airport, so his car would remain at the home. Preferably out of sight in a windowless garage if at all possible.
Anonymous
Heh — you know this had hasn’t been able to get a car in the garage in 30 years and has a fleet of vehicles in the driveway. At least they are there and not out in the yard.
Anon
He needs to winterize his house, probably turning off water, but leaving heat on, etc. He should probably have someone local looking after it, or at least checking on it every few days. Or maybe set up some security with internal and external cameras. Decide what to do with his mail — my mil recently spent several months at her daughter’s house and despite filling out the form both online and in person, the mail never stopped so dh and I needed to stop by every other day and bring it inside. Will he need a car when he is with you? Is there somewhere else he can leave his car? Does he have online bill pay set up so he can manage his basic bills while he’s gone. I’m sure there is a ton of other stuff — my mil spends one month here, then 2 monts with sil, then 2 months here, etc, but I try not to get involved in the details.
Anonymous
Oh, what does winterize mean? Some TH ing you do for a home that has gone through winters but this time sitting empty?
Anonymous
Yes. You can look up lists online. It’s very common in my area for people to use their cottages only in the summer while other people use them yearround. If you’re summer only. You do a plumbing shut down in the fall, put antifreeze in the pipes, drain the hot water heater etc.
Have someone drive him to the airport and leave the car at home. If he wants more independence vs living in your house while still being in your city, and to be able to meet new people, a few of the independent living places in my area have ‘winter only ‘ options for some of their apartments. I think they offer the apartments to rent to visiting family in the summer.
Anonymous
Yes, he can specify in advance to the contractor what to do. His car can stay on a battery warmer.
KS IT Chick
The water lines need to be cleared and depressurized. The HVAC will need special treatment. There’s a lot that goes into the process to get a house closed up.
My husband’s aunt and uncle were “winter Texans”. They spent at least 4 months a year in southern Texas, living in a small town in Kansas. They depended on my husband’s parents to keep an eye on the house and handle anything that came up. It was a constant struggle with ice storms and snow to find leaks and get them fixed.
Could you start with a shorter trip, maybe a couple weeks, to see how your father does?
Anon
If it’s a location with a number of seasonal residents there are likely services to winterize homes in the fall and check on them periodically. Even if that’s not so, if it’s a place with hard winters it’s probably worth a google for that location.
I’ve heard of service near one of the Great Lakes that does all the standard things and then plastic wraps the house! Porch furniture left on the porches, just the whole house … wrapped. Like us regular people would wrap leftovers for tomorrow’s lunch. I find this amusing for some reason.
Anonymous
So unreal! And sounds so wasteful with all that single use (?) plastic :(
Senior Attorney
If I were in your shoes, if at all possible I’d fly to him and drive back to your place in his car (assuming he’s still a competent driver and there is a place for his car where you are). It would probably make it a lot easier for him if he felt like he had his car and that bit of independence. And yes, winterize the house and also ask a neighbor or friend to check on the house maybe once a week to bring in any errant mail and just make sure things are okay.
Anonymous
Leaving his car in long term parking at an airport over the winter is a terrible idea.
Anecdata
My airport maxes out at 30 days anyway. You can call them and get an extension if there’s a real emergency, like you got stuck somewhere and the borders closed, but it wouldn’t be allowed for “wintering in Florida”. Uber/Lyft to the airport is the way to go here.
Anon
Agree. You can also get the car shipped (helpful if he wants to pack more – just load up the trunk), or maybe find a friend to drive it.
Anon
Does he have friends where he is now? I’ve been through this with my now late mom, and that was something I was breezing over too much, thinking she needed to be near me so I could care for her & so I didn’t have the phone experience you describe.
But in the end, she wanted to be near her friends. If she only had lunch with a friend once every other week, that was important enough to her that she didn’t want to move. I needed to learn to honor that.
Anecdata
If your dad doesn’t want to move, we could help brainstorm things to mitigate the phone problem – like a smart speaker he could call you from if he drops the phone. There are even versions that have the ability to authorize someone (like you) to automatically connect the call if your dad doesn’t pick up, if you both would be comfortable with that as an emergency option
Anonymous
OP here, and not really. Mom is who he got friends through but they aren’t his friends. He stopped going to church even when she got sick and it is too hard for him to go back alone. We are all he has. No local relatives. Their neighbors are seasonal or even older than he is (and just 2 of them).
Anon
Hello,
I would really appreciate any recommendations for an elder care/family lawyer in Pittsburgh/licensed in Pennsylvania please. We are going through early Alzheimer’s with my mother and looking to get prepared.
Thank you in advance.
anon
Not an attorney recommendation (and I apologize in advance if this is not helpful), but my family has been navigating a similar situation over the last several years, and I’ve found The 36 Hour Day to be tremendously helpful. It’s been a great source of information and has also just been validating to read about how a lot of the things we’re experiencing are “normal” under the circumstances.
Anon
I didn’t have an elder care lawyer (just an estate lawyer), but I found a geriatric social worker to be a godsend in a similar situation several years ago. I believe I found mine through an online directory of licensed geriatric SW. Here is the name of the individual I used-I was looking in Philly but he likely knows other reputable colleagues across the state. Good luck, it’s a difficult road:
Gary Kozick, LCSW
Licensed Clinical Social Worker
Gary Kozick Elder Care Solutions, L.L.C.
Eldercare Consultation – Geriatric Care Management
(215) 510-8901
http://www.garykozick.com
Anon
Been through this and I would get the power of attorney signed right now, before you actually speak to an attorney unless you’re able to get an appointment like tomorrow. That should be your number one step.
Anon
This. It’s easy to get online and then get it notarized.
Anonymous
I’ve been reading this blog since 2012. My mom just turned 61 and we have only just realized she has early dementia this past week. I am so so heart broken. I didn’t know I was losing bits of her. I’ve been crying a lot the past 2 days, thinking back on when things started changing.
I am following this with interest and taking notes.
Another longtime reader
Hugs to you, Anon <3
Former Junior Associate
Harrisburg, but try Elizabeth Place at Mette.
Anon
Would also love recommendations in Cleveland/Ohio for a similar situation with my in-laws.
Jules
I’m a lawyer in Ohio and reached out to my network and got this rec: https://www.hickman-lowder.com/
Jules
And a rec from another colleague in Cleveland:https://www.mcfaddenbushnell.com/
Anononon
Went through this EXACT same thing and deeply recommend Adam Cohen. He is technically excellent and a patient, compassionate person.
He did all of my mother with Alzheimer’s standard estate docs (wills, POA, etc) and helped us set up a PA asset protection trust.
He lives in Philly area now but went to Pitt law and practiced there for a while.
Adam Cohen Esq
Begley Law Group.
Leaders in Planning for the Elderly and Disabled
main 856-235-8501
dir 856-787-4238
acohen@begleylawgroup.com
Anonymous
Important to know that Pennsylvania is one of the only states that has and enforces physical responsibility laws on their books
Anononon
I think this is a typo for filial responsibility laws, but yes. PA is one of the few states that has filial responsibility laws and they have been enforced, in an extremely limited way, recently.
Medicare in PA also does not cover memory care – only nursing home care. That is why structuring a PA asset protection trust (aka PA medicaid trust) is important to do early, if you think your loved one will be in a situation where one will be helpful.
Anonymous
Sorry OP and everyone having to go through this. I do have to say we have such a wonderful community here with the wealth of knowledge/local resources <3
Anon
Trump called for a “unified Reich” and signaled openness to limiting contraception. I’m worried that the dominant reaction among people I know is shrugging. Everyone is so burnt out on outrage media and wants to zone out but where does it leave us in November?
Anonymous
IDK but I read that RFK is polling around 10% and have seen a yard sign and number sticker for him in my large SEUS city. Troubling.
Cerulean
I’m hoping he’ll get more Trump voters than Biden voters.
Anon
I am one of those people who just want to zone out. I donated a ton during the 2020 election, posted on social media and even made some phone calls on behalf of Biden. I’m sticking my head in the sand until November and voting for Biden. I don’t think there is anything else I can do. Despite all of my efforts, it’s still between Biden and Trump so I’ll vote but otherwise sit this one out.
anon
Same. I don’t have the energy anymore.
Anon88
Yep, same here. Text banked for biden in 2020, wrote letters, etc. This year I’m doing the exact same thing as you. Was talking to a friend at dinner last night–thinking about it too much just makes me panic, it doesn’t actually do anything. I think this is a common feeling too–I feel like I’ve never heard so little about a presidential election so close to November.
Anon
OP here and I confess to wanting to zone out too, but I imagine how stressful life will be under Trump and how much “low energy” I’ll have after another 4 years. Speaking purely selfishly, I know that if I and everyone else checks tf out now, we’re all going to regret it more later.
anon
Look, I live in a blue dot in a very red state. People’s minds are already made up. I can’t stand Trump, nor can my family and friends, but I know so many people who vote based on The Economy and nothing else. Do I think our current state is Biden’s fault? Not at all, but he’s an easy person to blame.
Anon
No one’s mind has ever been changed by hyper energy stress, texts, etc. I will vote, I think lots of people will vote, and that’s really what actually matters.
Anon
I don’t think a lot of those calls and postcards are about the candidate, actually. Most of them are about “please vote today.” At least the ultra-popular Vote Forward was.
Anon
These campaigns are not about changing minds! They’re about increasing turnout among people who are already inclined to vote for your preferred candidate. Turnout is everything.
Anon
But what can we do about it? How are we going to change peoples minds or convince them to vote? Seems like everyone’s mind is made up. I can’t stress myself out again and have the same results. I’ve also donated to women’s reproductive health groups for years and stopped after inflation kicked my behind.
Anon
Yup. Don’t have the energy to get too invested aside from the ways my work is impacted or potentially impacted.
Everyone I know is 100% committed to their candidate (or to not voting – lots of never Trump republicans in my family). My friends and some of my family are all vehemently Biden, the rest of my family and I will never agree and I’d rather not fight with them. I live in a super blue city.
It’s too exhausting and stressful to follow this too closely.
I’ll vote and maybe donate some but that’s all I can muster.
Anon
I’m the same. To me it’s completely obvious that you have to vote for Biden. If anyone is idiotic enough to think Trump is fit to be president of the United States, they’re a lost cause.
Anon
Rolling out the red carpet, I think! The opposition seems to have given up even before the rest of us did. I guess they’re hoping for positions in the new regime.
Anon
FWIW, Trump didn’t say he was “looking at” restriction contraception; he said he was looking at a contraception policy. He then came out and strongly said he wouldn’t restrict contraception. It seems like he meant something along the lines of decreasing cost or increasing access? Some (not enough IMHO) pro-life lawmakers have taken that stance: more contraception in exchange for abortion restrictions.
Trump has said that the Arizona abortion law goes “too far” and seems to want first trimester access.
Anon
He’s only saying that because complete abortion bans are extremely unpopular. The guy doesn’t have any principles, he’ll just say whatever he thinks is politically expedient (which is true of a lot of politicians, to be fair).
Anon
lol, if you believe Trump secretly meant he wanted to help women, I have a bridge to sell you.
Anon
I don’t think he wants to help women; I think he wants to get elected.
Anon
Don’t they all…
Senior Attorney
Right? Good grief.
Anon
I think this is one of those rare points of agreement between pro life world and pro choice world – nobody believes he actually philosophically agrees with them and cares about the issue. He cares about his own power and will lie to get it.
Anon
We all know Trump the person doesn’t give a flying fig about the pro-life cause, but Trump the politician will say and do anything to pander (even things he expressed said he wouldn’t do days or months prior)
Anonymous
You realize he’s purposely trying to play both sides of the issue to try and get elected right?
Work Phone
Trump is a useful idiot for the anti-abortion faction.
Anon
I think Trump’s going to win and I don’t think there’s a lot that can be done about it at this point. The absolute last thing that’s going to convince potential Trump voters to vote for Biden instead is to get a call or postcard from upper middle class middle aged white ladies from California. It’s so incredibly patronizing for someone like me to think that I should tell strangers in other states who they should vote for. If I got a call like that, I would find it so offensive, it would probably convince me to vote for Trump, if I were on the fence. Plus, I totally understand why people are pissed about the economy. I’m about to move out of CA because we’ve been priced out of ever being able to afford a house here due to the rapid increase in prices in just the last few years (we were thinking about buying in 2020 or 2021 and then everything went crazy). Luckily we make enough money to afford a house elsewhere and are still relatively well off, but it’s hugely disruptive to the lives we wanted to live, and moving is also incredibly expensive and the housing market is not great elsewhere either. I’m not dumb enough to think that Trump would have done a better job than Biden at making housing and everything else affordable, but Biden isn’t doing a very good job at communicating that. It’s no contest between Biden and Trump, but I don’t blame people for being disgusted that these two elderly men are once again our only options.
Anon
Forgive me, but isn’t getting a call for a candidate and then telling yourself “ok now I’m just going to do the opposite then!” a little…childish? Why wouldn’t you just vote for who you want to vote for?
Anon
The way you’ve phrased it is childish.
I live in a very red state and can tell you the thought process. Someone from California calls and asks my grandpa to vote for Biden. My grandpa has been watching shows that tell him California is an expensive, liberal bastion full of druggies who poop on the streets. He doesn’t want that. So what someone in California says doesn’t make one bit of difference in his thinking. He also gets upset that people who don’t understand what it’s like in a rural community are coming in and trying to preach what’s best to him. Kind of like how the people in California would not react well to someone from his community coming in and telling them what to do.
All of this entrenches him in his support for T.
I don’t agree with the support, but this is why a lot of people here hate the phone calls and postcards from other places.
AIMS
Except that if you actually phone bank, the phone calls or do any get out the vote effort, they tend to target persuadable voters who are open to voting for your candidate. I get wanting to just zone out but that’s exactly how autocrats get elected. Totally fine to not volunteer too, but there are effective ways to help and telling yourself nothing works is kind of a cop out. Just don’t volunteer. You don’t need to “justify” it.
Anon
I’m the red state person above. I agree that get out the vote efforts are important! I participate in them. I engage with the people around me and talk to them about issues that are important TO THEM in a way that shows I am familiar with what they’re going through and thinking.
I don’t think that the postcards sent by people from coastal places to my hometown are in any way effective. I have seen that those orgs say it’s an effective strategy, but I haven’t been able to find any real stats on that, and my anecdotal experience is the opposite. I would love to be proven wrong!
Anon
Of course it is, but that’s basically the fundamental appeal of Trump to begin with- a reaction to “elites” telling “normal people” what to do. I go back and forth between agreeing that it’s childish and being sympathetic to how obnoxiously preachy liberals can be, even if I more or less agree with them. As someone who grew up in the Midwest and has lived in small towns and red states before moving to CA, I do feel like the typical big city liberal is out of touch with what it’s like to live in most of the country, as is the typical rural red stater, which is why I object to trying to influence out of state voters.
anon
Sadly, I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
Democrats are just terrible at messaging. Not realizing and empathizing that for the average middle/lower middle class person, the skyrocketing prices of food/gas/housing/healthcare and college are frightening. The stock market endlessly rising and making upper middle class and rich folks even richer is just strengthening the divide. And then having these last minute efforts to give out more money to the “educated elite” with student loan forgiveness seems…. pathetic and increases resentment from those who didn’t go to college.
Yes, Trump is a nightmare, but Democrats are also ineffective.
Anon
I agree that Democrats are incredibly ineffective and it’s really frustrating. They’ll see poll results for what their voters want and literally do the opposite with full force.
anon
Factor in the culture wars crap, and the Democrats definitely have a messaging problem.
Anon
I give the democrats a lot of grief about how much energy they spend on alienating issues (see:pronouns). But I also think they have an uphill battle on messaging; it’s a lot easier when you can just dog whistle and spout meaningless platitudes that your base eats up!
The things you point out aren’t necessarily benefiting “the elite” and are examples of where they are falling short on taking control of issues. The stock market rising benefits everyone with a retirement account, which is more than half of American families. Student loan forgiveness benefits the educated poor/middle, not the elite. And “the economy” is actually doing much better than anyone expected. Housing prices and state property taxes are not really “national economy” issues, they are driven by quite the complex mix of factors, but you are right that democrats are not communicating this well at all.
And then there’s the elephant in the room, this war, which is going to cost a lot of “reliably liberal” voters, and Biden is not making a great case for his decisions.
Anon
If I hear one more fancy economist commentator sound *totally baffled* as to why people are unhappy with the economy when it’s actually “great!, GDP is up, they must just be bozos confused by their emotions”, I’m gonna 🤮, and I am not someone who could be classified as anti intellectual by any reasonable standards
Anon
It reminds me of how in my city (San Francisco), the public will complain about crime rates and express specific fears (walking at night, riding Bart alone, needle-strewn playgrounds for their kids) and some in power will respond “well ACTUALLY crime is down 1.5% this month and the problem is your perception.”
Anon
Agreed. Don’t tell me the economy is great when I have to worry every time I go to the grocery store because food is so expensive and I’ll never be able to buy a home
Anon
You are all proving the point that this is a messaging problem, not an economy problem. There has been WORLDWIDE inflation due to Covid and supply chain issues. The Fed under Biden has stabilized inflation, but prices are not going down unless we hit deflation, which is unlikely. Housing prices are going up because there is a lack of supply, due to inflationary interest rates AND PE buying up everything. (But for people who own the homes, this news is great.) Natural disasters due to climate change is fueling a lot of the mortgage/PITI payment increases, too, and the money to respond has to come from somewhere. Unemployment is astonishing low.
There are many factors at play but not one of them is that “the economy is bad.”
Anon
I think you are proving my point. It’s not a messaging problem, in that if you just shout louder that “the economy is good!” I’ll finally get the memo. Unemployment is low but the jobs on offer do not allow a hard worker to cover their reasonable expenses. I do not want more “messaging” about how the economy is actually not bad, I want an acknowledgement of what the problem actually is; and a concrete plan to solve it, with real metrics democratic politicians can be held responsible for. I don’t care if they’re proposed is or is not “technically about the economy” – if the problem is PE, than put together a plan to regulate them out of existence; jail the execs of food providers that kept raising prices during the pandemic due to “increased expenses” but still reported record profits for price gouging after a declaration of emergency, etc. Just don’t keep insisting “it’s only messaging, the problem is that people ‘don’t understand’ how good the economy is”
I’m not delusional; I don’t think at all a Trump/Republican government would do better on this, but I am absolutely not happy with what I’m getting from Democrats.
Anonymous
One huge economic problem is that wages have not kept pace with inflation. “Merit increases” for normal middle-class jobs are lagging behind the rate of inflation.
Anon
Maybe we’re talking across each other; I agree with you. I think harping on how good the economy actually is *is* bad messaging. The “message” needs to be something actionable, that lets people know you understand their struggles. It needs to address the economic forces that people are struggling with (like how to make sure people can feed and house their families), rather than some nebulous “economy”. Maybe you think I’m splitting hairs, but I’m a stickler for precision. The economy is good AND people are struggling with the new reality.
Anecdata
@anon 12:33 ah yeah, I think I get where you’re coming from now — we’re talking about the same problems, but putting different things in the bucket of “is it about the economy, or something else”.
Anon
You are defining economy in the economic sense, which is technical true but now what the average person is talking about when they say the economy is bad. The country is a whole may be fine from a GDP prospective, but when all that money goes to the top 1% and the middle-class is unable to pay their bills, the economy is not good
Anonymous
Calls are not going to convince anyone switch sides.
Call are a good reminder that you don’t have to like Biden but if you dislike Trump, voting for Biden is literally only the way to stop Trump and make sure that we have a peaceful transition of power in the future. I don’t trust Trump to not try and do a further second term if he wins. Like argue that the ban is on more two consecutive terms, not two terms total.
Trump refused to acknowledge or attend the last transfer of power. That’s not who we need in the White House.
People might not like Biden but Trump is way worse for democracy if we’d like different options in 4 years.
Anonymous
I will vote for Biden, no question given the choice we have now. But I am disgusted with both parties for not grooming successors to these two. This morning I watched Chris Coons on the news and all I could think was “Why isn’t that guy the candidate?” [I didn’t even 100% agree with what he said.] And then I concluded that pretty much any of the prominent Dems named Chris would work for me much better than Biden. On the other side, the guilt is greater. Allowing DJT to capture that primary in 2016 was an abdication. Letting him be the candidate in 2024 is all but treasonous.
AIMS
Maybe I’m too practical but I just don’t get the handwringing. We have two actual choices. It’s like going to a wedding and being offered chicken or fish. You just choose which one is better and you move on to the dancing. You don’t starve in protest or keep complaining about the menu. The next president is likely to pick two SC justices, if not more. That’s enough to get me worked up.
Anon
No one is disagreeing that those are the choices. But there is legitimate frustration that we’re back in the same spot again.
Anon88
Yeah the same matchup as 2020 makes me feel like I’m losing my mind.
Anon
+1 to AIMS
Cerulean
This reminds me of a David Sedaris quote from 2008, “I look at these people and can’t quite believe that they exist. Are they professional actors? I wonder. Or are they simply laymen who want a lot of attention? To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. “Can I interest you in the chicken?” she asks. “Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it? To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.”
Anon
Haha, this is a terrible analogy because it actually makes me sympathetic to undecided and non-voters. As a vegetarian, the answer would definitely be that I just wouldn’t eat. The thought of choosing the chicken is just as repulsive to me as the platter of shit. But I’m holding my nose and voting for Biden, as much as I dislike him.
Anon
I love that David Sedaris analogy.
Cerulean
Even as a vegetarian, you would hesitate between *literal shit* with broken glass and chicken? I get that meat can be repulsive for many reasons, but one of those options would be a real danger to your health. I think a more apt analogy would be to substitute a normal vegetarian entrée you aren’t excited about here! :-)
Anon
Maybe it would make more sense to you if you’d noticed all the shit and glass in the chicken entree?
Anon
That’s why I feel like the analogy actually makes me sympathetic to people who don’t want to vote for Biden over Gaza, even though Trump would clearly be worse. As a vegetarian, I’d eventually eat chicken over the platter of shit. But not on a single plane flight, or even a week long trip. It would only be to save my life when there was truly no other choice when we were crashed in the wilderness for weeks, it’s that repulsive to me (I’d be equally okay with cannibalism in that scenario). I think people with strong convictions about Gaza feel similarly, with the added motivation to try to get the Biden administration to change their policy before the election, so it doesn’t actually come down to having to chose the shit over some nice falafel or hummus.
Cerulean
The difference here is that for four years, the options are shit platter or chicken. There is no vegetarian option on offer.
Anon
What the heck is this analogy? The voters are guests at a banquet staged by our betters and should be grateful for what’s offered to us?
Anonymous
I was clear that I will vote and have made my choice between two bad choices. I am not sitting anything out or protesting. But I think the person who sits in that office makes a difference (even if mostly at the margins, mostly as a figurehead, and perhaps more on the international stage than the national), and I have little confidence in either, even though the choice between parties and teams is stark for me. I get to lament a party system that is both not doing the work and stifling the elevation of the best candidates.
Anon
You’ll probably disagree, but Biden may be the best candidate. He is still winning over a lot of centrists. He risks the defectors from the liberal side, but the democrat who those liberals would vote for (against the war, etc) would lose many centrists.
I don’t actually think Biden is that bad, and will happily vote for him rather than a slew of “better” democrats who have been floated. Yes he’s old. But he’s smart enough to surround himself with good thinkers
Anon
Hillary was a great candidate on paper, but she didn’t win. I’d rather have a worse candidate who could win.
Anonymous
Two things can be true at the same time. Of course I’m voting for Biden, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be frustrated that he didn’t get out of the way and make a primary goal of his presidency ensuring that Harris or literally any other successor was positioned to be elected in 2024.
Anon
I’m sorry to say this, but the party did that math, and Harris and all of the alternatives did not stand a chance of being elected. It’s disappointing but here we are.
Anon
Well and they’d rather lose than give Bernie Sanders a chance.
Anon
Bernie Sanders would 100% lose. Sorry to tell you that as well. If he could win he’d be the nominee.
Anon
If the DNC let voters choose the nominee, he’d have been the nominee before now. I don’t know if he would have won; maybe no Dem would have? But I know they’d rather have a less popular candidate than let voters decide.
pink nails
I’m definitely voting for Biden, but you cannot tell me that there is not another boring moderate white man (that’s what Biden is) who isn’t super old that would have had an easier time winning. People are demanding change and the only thing they can change is to go back to a different President, even though it’s not even a different president. If we would have offered them an actual different boring moderate white man that wasn’t 80 years old, we would have easily won. Even better would have been if we could have put up Gretchen Whitmer or Amy Klobachar or Pete Buttigeg – but okay if you’re worried about identity politics, why not a boring Tim Walz (Minnesota governor) or Tony Evers (Wisconsin governor) or someone in that vein?
Anonymous
And why is it that Harris and the rest don’t stand a chance? I would argue that it goes back years, decades really, to the party’s elevation of Hillary Clinton as its “rightful heir” (which is why we have Trump) and its failure to position any GenXers to take over the mantle of leadership. (Obama was an anomaly who just kind of strode up and took charge through sheer force of leadership, temporarily derailing Clinton’s ambitions. We really need another Obama at this moment.)
Anon
Yes, I would so much rather vote for some boring white guy governor than Biden. I can’t be the only one! He wasn’t that popular a candidate the first time around, but the message was that we’d get someone better… and now we’re just getting him again, as a weaker candidate than before. Even Harris seems weaker than before.
Anon
Bernie Sanders would get destroyed and anyone who thinks he would do better than Biden is living in a super liberal bubble. I’m in a purple state with a solidly blue crowd of family and friends, and I know almost no one who likes Bernie and about half the Dems I know straight up wouldn’t vote for him. He has zero chance of winning swing states.
I do think some generic straight white male Democrat who is younger than Biden might have had a better shot, but the party doesn’t really have anyone who meets that description and has a national profile. The best one is probably Newsom and he’s very unpopular in California and has made national news for some unflattering things like going to The French Laundry during Covid restaurant closures.
Anon
Maybe true, but would a boring white, straight guy win a dem primary? It’s been 20 years. Biden won because of name recognition and being appealing to both centrists and fans of Obama
Anon
And adding: the two boring white guy dems before Biden LOST the general. (I know Trump is a wild card, but still.) As did boring white Romney.
pink nails
If Biden wouldn’t have run, I definitely think boring white guy could have won the dem primary. Obama and Hillary are the only times we haven’t went for boring white guys, and when faced with another Trump term we went back to the boring white guy. It would have been apparent in the dem primary that we are faced with another Trump term; we would have went for the boring white guy safe option again.
pink nails
I’ll add – I actually think there are a lot of younger, charismatic, moderate Democrat who wasn’t in the current administration could have beat Trump. They wouldn’t have had to been a boring white man. I don’t want to be saved by a boring white man. We just needed a “not this/Biden, not Trump” candidate.
Biden just shouldn’t be our candidate. I’m progressively becoming much more sympathetic to the idea that very old people should not be running the country. Scott Galloway talks about this and I’m buying his arguments.
Again, I’m going to vote for Biden. I’ve been a single issue Supreme Court pro-choice voter since I could vote. But I think there are pragmatic reasons to be pissed that our option is leftover airplane chicken that we’re supposed to be happy with because it’s not filled with glass and shit.
Anon
Half the Dems you know in a purple state wouldn’t vote for Sanders even at the risk of Trump winning? Are you sure you aren’t the one in a super liberal bubble? I live in one purple state and my family lives is in another. Sanders was very popular in both, among young and old, urban and rural, even people who would call themselves Republicans. The only Democrats I’ve encountered who would rather Trump win were very rich and conservative; how many Democrats like that are there?
pink nails
Bernie Sanders is 82 years old and looks every bit of it, so you don’t gain anything at all on the age front. He’s not even remotely moderate and I agree that he wouldn’t have won the general. FWIW I live in an upper midwest swing state that is commonly listed as one that will decide the election in a rural area. My neighborhood is 60% republican. You could swing some of them with a “not trump” candidate but you’re not swinging them over with Bernie and you probably aren’t with Biden again.
Anonymous
+1, it’s incredibly frustrating (and also not true to Biden’s campaign promises) – but I’ll vote for him anyway because it is what it is.
Anon
Lololol, I’d vote for Trump over Bernie. Come on!
Anonymous
I’m more worried about young voters not recognizing that Trump’s take on Palestine will be even worse. I see so much anti-Biden rhetoric and support growing that way even though Trump endorses Israel’s tactics–if not more. Folks want to hate Biden for the genocide going on, but I don’t think they realize that it will be the exact same if not worse if Trump is elected. But we’ll get the added burdens at home of less freedom around family planning, big oil over the EPA, and continued gerrymandering to further thwart the popular vote.
Anonymous
It would be worse. For example, I believe the Biden administration has put pressure on Israel to restore the AP’s Gaza live feed after Israel confiscated it today, while I would expect that the idea of limiting the media when they displease you would juice up Trump and maybe give him the idea to push here for the kind of legislated restrictions on media that led to Al Jazeera being raided and booted from the country.
Anon
Biden could still do much better.
Where Trump will be much, much worse is Ukraine.
Anon
Trump will be much worse on both.
Seventh Sister
I agree completely.
Anonymous
Trump will be worse for Palestinians re Israel.
Trump will be exponentially worse re Ukraine. We’re doing a visit to family in Eastern Europe this summer and at Christmas so we can get there and back twice this year in case it is not safe next year if Trump wins. Ukraine is not the limit of Putin’s ambition. Moldova and Poland are on his radar.
Anonymous
This is incredibly scary. I like to think that I will move my family to Canada if need be, but I haven’t thought through the actual logistics of that.
Cerulean
Immigrating to Canada is no cake walk (or nearly impossible) for most Americans.
Anon
My husband is eligible for an EU country citizenship by descent and we’ve started working on it, just in case.
Anon
I am saving my energy for the fall, when I plan to spend time in my local community and a neighboring swing state on get out the vote. At this point, I think turning out Biden voters is our best shot (not trying to persuade)
anon
Yes, you are right. Getting people to the polls is what matters now – not changing minds.
Anonymous
Can someone explain brand new with box cheaper luxury makeup on EBay/Mercari etc? Is it knock offs? Have people successfully arbitraged these goods? Some other fascinating secondary market dynamic?
I have been lusting after a particular lipstick. I was gifted one by the brand and I love it. Can I justify $60(!) for one lipstick, no. But then it pops up on eBay for half off? I’m quite confused.
Anon
It’s stolen.
Anonymous
+ 1, I think it’s most likely stolen. Most people who can afford to buy cosmetics at this price point are not keeping an eBay store. It’s either stolen or illegally imported.
Anon
Yeah, Ultra and Sephora are common targets for theft rings.
OP
Well, now I feel silly. I had literally been wondering if people had figured out some bulk buy situation.
Thanks for answering!
Anon
FWIW people on Poshmark definitely sell their own makeup that they don’t like or don’t want to keep for whatever reason.
Anon 2.0
100% stolen. I believe the CEO of Ulta just did a recent interview on how bad theft is at their stores. At Christmas, I tried to buy my niece a specific blush she requested at Sephora. The system said there was something like 14 in stock and they had none. The associate point blank told me they were likely stolen.
Anonymous
100% stolen. They just arrested a husband and wife who ran a huge network of shoplifters at Ulta.
Anon
Other people would sell the one they received as a gift for $30, no?
Anon
IDK but there is a huge ick factor with a lot of used things. Purses and most clothes, fine. But used bathing suits and makeup? I just can buy something in-budget for those items, but from a store. Nothing used, nothing stolen, nothing past its sell-by date.
ABanon
Probably not, why not return it for the full amount or even store credit for the full amount since it doesn’t go on sale? Plus … you’re not even going to try it on (unsanitary to resell)?
Anonymous
Agreed! I’ve done this before with brand new in packaging items received as gifts. Same for travel sizes and “bonus” items that come in sets.
Anon
Stolen or counterfeit. Just bought a Le Labo perfume that was mostly similar in scent and packaging, but upon closer inspection and comparison to the one I bought direct, was not legit.
Anon
Lots of counterfeits on prestige brands like Le Labo. Please don’t anyone on here ever try to buy a YSL, Dior, or Chanel fragrance on eBay or similar. 90% chance it’s fake or 90% watered down.
Anonymous
just out of curiosity what about those places on etsy where you can pay $15-$20 for what is allegedly perfume decanted into smaller sizes? i’ve wondered about those…
Anon
There are legit decanters. Surrender to. Chance and ScentSplit are a couple. If you like niche fragrance, Lucky Scent is great for samples.
Anon
A lipstick can last for ages, buy the $60 one from the brand or Sephora. If it’s the Tom Ford one, it’s totally worth it. Color lasts forever and comes in fantastic shades. And yes, the stuff you’re seeing on eBay is stolen.
OP
It is Tom Ford! Ok, one more notch in the WANT column.
Senior Attorney
I know I keep saying this, but Tom Ford’s mom is in my book club and she is lovely and it tickles me to death!
Jules
Love this!
Senior Attorney
Agree with this. You probably wouldn’t think twice about spending $60 for a blouse, and you’ll wear that lipstick many more times than the blouse.
Anonymous
I only buy make up on Poshmark from friends of friends who I know IRL.
If a profile is all makeup, I assume stolen or fake. If someone has a variety of clothes/bags and some unopened make-up especially if gift sets posted like the week after mother’s day, that’s less suspicious.
Anonymous
A few possible scenarios:
1) first, I would check if they’re pro sellers (tons of listings) or hobby sellers. I’m the later—have maybe 10 active listings of nicer work clothes on Poshmark. I have sold new makeup / skincare (think gifts with purchase, changed mind, etc) before for low prices.
If pro seller:
2) Was your product recently on super sale?
I’ve purchased discontinued lipsticks and other makeup before from eBay. Those sellers scoop up stuff when they’re on clearance in stores (think the red tags at Target end caps) and resell them for higher online. Like they would drive around and buy out multiple stores’ clearanced inventory. In your case, perhaps the sellers were able to get (multiple) free lipsticks like you were able to?
3) I would also check to make sure they’re not a drop shipper. Do they have photo of the actual item (think not great lighting, interesting background) or only stock photos? Check google, maybe your lipstick is on sale somewhere right now.
I’ve unknowingly ordered new stuff from eBay dropshippers. Was so mad to see then come in an Amazon box straight from an Amazon warehouse. And the return/refund from the eBay seller was a nightmare (he initiate an Amazon return and somehow sent me a UPS QR code…)
4) Lastly, if it seems too good to be true, it might be.
Anon
That’s a good point. I have sold a few cosmetic on eBay. It was new in box, I had stocked up on an item I liked at the time and then I found something I liked better and sold the prior versions I had hoarded.
Anon
Regarding (2) – I don’t doubt it happens, but the math is rough. Let’s say they scoop up items for $20 that are normally $50. They need to charge at least $25 plus shipping to break even (Poshmark fee and shipping costs), so maybe about $32 to break even. So they aim for $40 to make some money. Except… why would anyone buy from Sketchy McBulkSales for $40 instead of just buying directly from the real seller for $50?
Poshmark should be a way to lose less money (final chance sale with no refunds, something you have worn a few times and are getting rid of), not to actually make money.
Anon
I watched some documentary on counterfeit makeup. It’s often fake products manufactured in China without the standard requirements so the product may not be safe or hygienic. I wouldn’t buy them on eBay and I’m often hesitant to buy cosmetics on Amazon.
Anon
Lol it’s stolen.
Anon
It’s not all stolen, no. People are sourcing TJ maxx, Marshall’s and other outlets with the purpose of reselling online. There are apps developed specifically for this that will scan the item, calculate the profit for each product (based on previous eBuy purchase prices). Some even go to estate sales to source.
Waffles
Er, my husband was super excited a couple months ago to find Creed Aventus at Winners (Canadian version of Marshalls / TJ Maxx). Sealed and from a reputable store. And it was fake :(
Interview Q Help
I have a final interview tomorrow with the head of a division of a privately-held, like 100-year old, medium-sized global company (my would-be great-grand boss, I believe). I’ve been lead to believe this could be the final one before an offer, more of a rubber stamp that I met with this person before formally presenting an offer to me. I could bomb and it’s all over, ha.. but let’s assume that doesn’t happen. All other interviews/conversations to date have been great. I’m really excited about the role, the people and the company. I’ve talked to 7 people so far so a lot of my canned questions are already answered or feel exhausted to re-use. I will reuse them but looking for some fresh question suggestions.
About the job: I’m in marketing. The company is basically known for (highly in demand) widget A, but is also really, really good at widgets B, C and D. Company has incidentally been good at B through D over the years but is actively in growth mode make B C and D on equal footing to A, and also working to rebrand so that it’s also recognized for expertise in A through D.
So, what do I ask this person that I haven’t already asked others? I’d like to ask something about how success is measured at the team level. And, what’s a good way to ask about strategy and the bigger picture?
Anon
Check out their social media presence and anything on YouTube. While listening to your entrance song (you have one, yes, the theme song, the walk-on music? get one or listen to something up-tempo from Hamilton). Think of what is great about that. What the next steps are. What the challenges are. Suppliers? Trade? Raw materials? Tariffs? Interest rates? Cost of financing? Pensions? HR? Wages? Unionizing? Location? Transportation? What Day One would look like?
Anonymous
I always ask if there is something the interviewer thought I should have asked, but didn’t. The conversation needs to have warmed up, and you need to flow it in properly, but it makes people think. It also shows that you’re open to something you may have missed.
emeralds
YMMV but if I’m digging for things to ask in skip-level interviews when I feel like the well of my go-questions is dry, I ask about their professional trajectory, how they got to where they are today, and what made them originally get interested in the work that they’re doing. I work in higher education so the dynamic is different than in private industry, but it’s always seemed to be well-received and has led to some genuinely interesting conversations.
Z
I love asking this question for skip levels!!
NaoNao
I would ask:
What type of person tends to thrive here vs. struggle? (sideways “culture” question)
What are some projects the company or teams are really excited for 2025?
What’s the learning curve expectation in this job–is it boots on the ground day 1, or is it more of a watch and learn and slowly ramp up?
What is the one non-negotiable trait, skill, or experience the ideal candidate has for this role?
What differentiates a great employee from a “just okay” employee in this role?
Vicky Austin
I love to ask about the learning curve expectation – generally goes over very well.
anon
I’m looking for a wireless bra that’s actually comfortable. I’ve tried on so many that are fine in the cups, but squeeze around the band, probably to offer the support needed. Over the course of the day, they end up being just as uncomfortable as an underwire, just for different reasons! Intrigued by all the Under Outfit ads I’m seeing, but I’m skeptical that the marketing is better than the product, which is what I’ve found with Third Love, Harper Wilde, and other newer companies.
According to my measurements, I’m a 36D, but sometimes the band feels too tight for comfort and I wonder if I’d be better off sizing up.
Anon
A well fitting underwire bra is not uncomfortable IMO. I’m also a 32DD so can’t really get away with wireless.
Anon
“A well fitting bra shouldn’t be uncomfortable” is such BS if you have a big chest.
Anonymous
It may be a personal thing. I’m a 34 H and I find a well fitting bra to be very comfortable.
Jane
which one? I was just asking the same question but re Honey love (new to me brand)
Anon
I’ve found it’s true, but I had to go VERY far afield for a genuinely well fitted bra. Like imported from abroad, because nothing sold in stores worked.
Anon
Get your measurements. Check out abrathatfits on red dit. I’m a 36G (UK size) who previously thought I was a 38D. I no longer want to rip my bra off the minute I walk in the door. It really does make a difference.
And if you’re larger busted, chances of you finding a bra that really fits in your local department store or big box store are slim to none. It’s all online – look for free returns.
Anon
https://www.abrathatfits.org/calculator.php
Here’s the calculator. It was life changing for me.
It will probably not surprise you to know that a lot of online calculators offered by retailers are skewed to get you into a size they sell, not your actual size. The linked calculator is an honest calculator.
Anon
I don’t know, I don’t have the biggest chest but I’m a 36 E and I find this to be true. I find underwire bras to be most comfortable.
Nora
I’m a 34DDD and I find bras pretty comfortable, underwire or not. They’re supportive. It’s comfortable.
Housecounsel
I like True. I tried Evelyn & Bobbie and they were super comfortable, but the non-adjustable straps were too long. I run into this problem with a lot of clothes, though, so I think it’s a me problem. Is it possible to have short shoulders? If you don’t have short shoulders, I recommend Evelyn & Bobbie.
anon
No, if anything, I have long shoulders and that seems to be part of the struggle. Soma, for example, doesn’t fit me at all. It runs very short!
Anon
A band feeling too tight can also be the cups being too shallow.
Anon
I like this one. I’m normally a 32C/D but wear 34B or 34C in this depending on where I am in my cycle. I take the side boning out. So you may want to try 38C along with your normal size. I like that there are four hooks and a very wide band so it doesn’t need to squeeze the life out of you for support. The lining is minimal but effective.
Maidenform Pure Comfort Lace & Mesh Longline Wireless Bralette
FWIW I have very prominent ribs and when I gain weight it only goes below my chest, so I find it near impossible to wear a wired because I feel like it’s just rubbing over my ribs all day.
anon
I really love Cosabella for wireless bras. I am a 36G for reference.
Gail the Goldfish
What color shoes do I wear with grey pants and a navy top/blazer? I was struggling this morning. Tan didn’t seem to go with the grey, black didn’t seem to go with the navy, and I don’t love dark brown with grey. Oxblood maybe? (sadly the only pair of shoes I had that was oxblood was a pair of heels I’ve sworn off post pandemic). (I just gave up and changed outfits is how I solved this problem today)
Anon
I’d wear the black shoes, personally. To my eye, the shoes need to go with the pants more than the blazer. Though oxblood or navy would work if you want to buy new shoes!
Anon
Pink, purple, metallics or animal prints would be my choice.
Anon
A red shoe would look great with this combo.
AIMS
Brown. I think type of brown matters so you may want to try a few different shades.
Anon
Burgundy in cool weather and pale pink or off white in warm weather.
anon
+1
I have a deep burgundy suede shoe that I love.
Anon
I wouldn’t wear grey and navy together to begin with – too school uniform.
Anon
Black is fine. Though red or some other color would be nice too.
Anon 2.0
I’d wear a camel color.
Anon
+1
I like to wear something in the whiskey, saddle, tawny tan family with grey and navy.
Anon
I tend to wear black or dark gray shoes with gray pants. But I have a pair of two-tone light tan and black shoes that seem to go with everything and lighten up the outfit to feel more summery. They’re from seasons ago so I don’t have a link, but I love them.
Anon
Navy, camel, burgundy, red, lots of things would work.
Senior Attorney
What color is your hair? One option is to “bookend” your hair color.
Anonymous
Navy or nude-for-you.
Anonymous
Partly a parenting question, partly a nutrition question. We have a 15 year old DS who is talented at his sport, starting to get looked at by D1 coaches. To be clear trying to go D1 in his sport is his dream so we support it, but DH and I have made clear many times that if he wanted to not pursue his sport for any reason, we will support him through college just like his siblings.
But as DS gets more attention in his sport he is wanting to bulk up, gain muscle. He’s been begging us to start taking protein supplements so that he’ll have the excess calories to gain muscle – think the big tubs of stuff sold at Vitamin Shop. I tend to think all the guys on the team are talking about this all the time. DH and I were not into these things in HS – we played sports but as middle of the pack kids, not worried about performance or recruiting. As we look into this, our heads are spinning, as these protein powders just seem to be chemicals we’ve never heard of. And if I’m being real, the one or two cousins I had who were all into protein powders and lifting in their late teens and 20s are now really large 30 somethings. I’m not sure what happened but it seems like as soon as they stopped lifting regularly, their bodies just changed composition and look nothing like they used to. I don’t care what he looks like as a middle aged man, just is there something unhealthy about taking supplements like this.
DS tracked his food intake on an app for a few weeks and found that he is about 500 to 700 calories shy daily of where he needs to be to gain muscle, if the app is right. Like all teen boys he eats a ton but there comes a time at night where he’s just done and doesn’t want another PB sandwich or fried egg sandwich or whatever. Because he’s become more nutrition conscious, DS was offended at DH’s idea that a daily snickers bar is 200 extra calories right there. But IDK the way DH and I see it, Snickers, ice cream, and milk seem so much safer that chemical powders – in addition to his usual consumption of eggs, greek yogurt, olive oil, PB.
We’ll discuss this with his dr at an his next appointment in July, but of course being 15 he thinks two months is an eternity. Are there protein supplements that are deemed safe or ingredients that should be avoided? I’m of the mind that if he wants to take something I’m happy to get him Ensure, Boost, or Carnation Instant Breakfast because if they are safe enough for my grandparents, they’re safe enough for him. Thoughts?
Anon
A lot of readers here use protein powder such as Orgain. I get it in Costco. Are you talking about something different? Idk what the concern is. Also, you could discuss with the pediatrician sooner than the appointment if your son doesn’t want to wait.
Anon
It’s not like he wants to take steroids…protein powers are a common way to get more protein to build muscle.
Anon
Also you can get protein powder where the ingredient list is literally just protein. No “chemicals” you seem to be so concerned about.
Anonymous
Brand?
edj3
True Nutrition. I use their vegan blend; they have non-vegan also. And a million flavor combos.
Anonymous
Jarrow unflavored whey protein
Anon
There are hippy protein powders on the market, like Orgain organic protein powder, and they just use protein from plants + vitamins/minerals from plants/etc. I like vanilla but my husband prefers their chocolate. I’d only be concerned with protein powders that add caffeine or creatine. There’s nothing unhealthy about boosting your protein intake using a protein powder.
Also, re: your cousins, if you keep eating like you’re lifting when you stop – no matter what you were eating – you will end up with “changed composition” of your body – of course! That’s not about what you’re eating, but what you’re not doing (lifting weights to maintain muscle mass).
Buy the kid some organic protein powder and move on!
Anon
Also, is your family or son vegetarian? I ask because you list things that are moderate in protein levels (peanut butter, eggs, greek yogurt) but not chicken, beef, or fish. If you are vegetarian, I also recommend liquid egg whites (fry them up in some oil) and seitan (wheat protein “meat”) as my two powerhouse vegetarian options when I was lifting heavy. I also had a smoothie using Orgain powder every day I was lifting – berries, orgain, and greek yogurt + water.
Anon
Yeah, I would make sure the kid is eating a good amount of meat instead of peanut butter if he’s really concerned about protein.
Anon
Or increase at least increase beans and soy. Add in some burritos or burrito bowls with beans, guacamole, and scrambled tofu or crumbled tempeh and whatever veggies he can stomach.
Anon
Steer clear of excess caffeine (I speak from my own experience) but creatine has a lot of benefits to brain health, so I’d maybe research this more before writing it off.
Anonymous
Creatine is incredibly well researched and very safe. I can understand the OP’s hesitation on that because there are supplements that include other dubious ingredients in creatine mixtures.
Anon
If you decide to go ahead with this, I’d seek out a supplement that has third-party testing and certification. It’s important to realize that supplements are NOT regulated in the U.S. – at all. What you pick up for cheap at the pharmacy could have heavy metal contamination, be a completely different product, have 1/10th the promised amount of whatever ingredient, and more. You probably saw this in the news in the last year with all the articles about how melatonin for kids is basically the Wild West and possibly dangerous. The only option that is semi-legit is reputable companies with voluntary third-party testing and results available for the consumer to see. If I were purchasing a supplement for a kid, I’d absolutely spend more to be assured of the safety.
Anonymous
May just be me but I wouldn’t allow it. Supplements aren’t regulated and as you say contain a laundry list of chemical ingredients. I think it’s concerning how many of these protein powders the average person is now taking, not really knowing what’s in them. And yes the tubby look at 30 is often a direct result of bulking up on these things as a teen or college kid when you’re burning stuff off and then going about a normal office job after that with minimal working out.
I’d be telling him if he needs 500 extra calories and he can’t deal with that at night, that means an extra sandwich, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and even candy bar sometime during the day.
Anon
Protein powders aren’t “supplements” any more than your cup of coffee in the morning is a “supplement”, and you really know what’s in them because they have mandated nutrition labels.
Work Phone
Protein powders are fine and consumed by millions of people.
You seem really anxious about this. You can’t control whether your son grows up into a “really large” adult. Please loosen up – boys can develop eating disorders, too
Moose
Yeah, I understand being hesitant about supplements but worrying that he’ll get fat from this as an adult is just weird.
Anon
Worrying that he’ll get fat as an adult so telling him to eat and drink sugar-laden junk food is REALLY weird.
Anon
Have you looked at the ingredients on a Snickers? They are also unpronounceable. There’s nothing bad about protein powder, and it’s an incredibly common dietary supplement. This middle aged suburban lady drinks a protein shake most days. Fairlife milk is also a good option.
Anon
+1 So does this pregnant lady. Tbh I don’t know that it really “fills me up” — drinking my calories never feels the same as eating them. But I’d choose clean protein powder every day over a processed candy bar
Anon
A snickers bar is junk food. A protein powder is not, your son is an athlete who is health conscious. He’s not looking to take steroids. Get him the protein powder he wants, this isn’t hard,
Anecdata
Carnation instant breakfast has gotta have as many weird chemicals as any protein powder.
You should be able to find protein powders where the protein is made from some recognizable source: whey or pea plants or something. Look up the remaining weird chemicals, but if they’re just small amounts of stabilizers/preservatives, those would be in the Snickers too.
emeralds
I would get him an appointment or two with a registered dietician who works with athletes. I heard a podcast recently with Wendi Irlbeck–she was excellent. From a quick skim, it looks like she has a ton of resources on her website/socials that would be helpful for you and your son–for example, I saw a “weight gain tips using real food” blog post without a ton of scrolling.
But I agree that on the face of it, there’s nothing wrong with adding a smoothie with some protein powder, especially if you get something with third-party testing and certification, as Anon suggested.
emeralds
In mod, trying again…I would get him an appointment or two with a registered dietician who works with athletes. I heard a podcast recently with Wendi Irlbeck–she was excellent. From a quick skim, it looks like she has a ton of resources on her webs*te/socials that would be helpful for you and your son–for example, I saw a “weight gain tips using real food” blog post without a ton of scrolling.
But I agree that on the face of it, there’s nothing wrong with adding a smoothie with some protein powder, especially if you get something with third-party testing and certification, as Anon suggested.
Of Counsel
I agree with everyone who says to just get him some protein powder/shakes, etc. Many, many people (not just athletes) use them regularly. Heck – my 75 year old mother just added them to her diet at her doctor’s recommendation. It is not the same thing as sketchy supplements sold on the internet.
However I wanted to add two things. First, if you are worried, book him a consult with a sports medicine doctor who specializes in adolescents. Second, if you are concerned about what happens to his body when he stops getting so much exercise, I can tell you that cutting out protein powder once it is no longer needed is much, much, much easier than cutting out an extra Snickers bar every day! (Speaks the women related to a half-dozen men who played college football – although most not D1.)
NYCer
Snickers bars, Ensure, Boost and Carnation aren’t exactly full of healthy, natural ingredients either. If you’re fine with those, I would be fine with protein powder.
Anon
They’re regulated though. Protein powder isn’t.
NYCer
To each their own… I am personally not concerned about using high quality protein powders. And on the flip side, I just cannot imagine suggesting to my child athlete that eating a snickers bar a day is a good way to increase protein or calories.
Anon
Yes, protein powder is regulated, it’s a food. You’re confusing it with ‘natural’ supplements and pills, which are not.
Mpls
What do you mean by regulated here? The fact that they have food labeling? manufacturer inspections, maybe? It’s not like the FDA is reviewing that labeling before it goes on, its just proscribing a format and required information types. The inspections are (likely) focused on places with reported issues. Unsafe stuff comes off the market after the fact. Food isn’t that much more regulated than supplements. And not nearly as regulated as pharma or med device.
Anon88
I am vegetarian and struggle to get enough protein and drink Garden of Life sport protein powder with oat milk almost daily. I just looked at the ingredients and it’s like “organic pea protein, organic sprouted navy bean, organic sprouted lentil bean,” etc. It’s way healthier than the junk food I eat, haha.
I’d also point out that when I was a teen and my parents told me no I’d just go behind their backs, so, personally I’d rather him take a supplement I approved of rather than some potentially sketchy, cheap thing he finds on his own.
Anon
We have an underweight tween and he drinks the Fairlife protein milk 3x/day and that has been a big help. My husband uses Huel protein powder (it’s pea protein) which is very simple and ‘clean’ but can be a little gritty/odd tasting. I also push nuts, cheese sticks and nut butters plus we offer ice cream most nights for dessert to get extra calories in.
anon
Also have an underweight teen and Fairlife milk has been very helpful. That, and just finding creative ways to add more calories in general.
Anonymous
I’m a middle aged lady who tracks protein consumption. I add a scoop of protein powder to cottage cheese or greek yogurt every day. In order to build muscle, your son needs protein, not just extra calories from ice cream or snickers bars.
anon
protein powder is most banal supplement and basically everyone I know uses it to hit macros. I like Ascent in a smoothie; my husband prefers Optimum Nutrition Gold in a shaker with milk. You want whey protein isolate. He probably also should take creatine if his sport is high intensity.
Anon
Have you considered making an appointment with a dietitian? A dietitian could help assuage your fears about chemicals and help your kid find healthy ways to add protein to his diet.
Anonymous
If he’s serious about going D1, you need to educate yourself on nutrition ASAP. If he’s not eating meat there’s literally no way he can get enough protein to build muscle without taking a protein supplement. There are unflavored protein powders based on whey (milk), casein (egg) or pea protein if you’re vegan. They taste disgusting, but they are protein. Stop pushing garbage like Snickers on him.
Anonymous
I think you should make an earlier appointment and get a consult with a dietician because literally none of you have a clue about this.
anon
+1 make an earlier appointment with the pediatrician and ask for a referral to a dietician who is experienced with teenage athletes. I am of the “real food, not supplements” school of thought, but that doesn’t really matter because I’m not a medical professional and I don’t have any education in the health of elite athletes. In your shoes, I would want the pediatrician’s advice not just on nutrition, but also how to support son and how to prevent various physical and mental health problems that can affect elite athletes.
Anon
Thank you for asking this questoin. I have a 13yo son and he has similar interest in protein powders.
Anon
Protein powders are perfectly safe. What you want to be cautious of are supplements, which are often sold by the same companies. Whey protein, pea protein, or whey protein isolate are what you are looking for.
Cerulean
There is a lot more talk now about how boys can have disordered eating, but it’s masked as “bulking up”. That might not be what’s going on here, but keep an eye out.
Anon
They literally do need to grow though!
Cerulean
Yes, I agree with that.
Anecdata
There are 100% algorithm reinforced rabbit holes directed at teen boys that move very quickly from : basic macro nutrition or lifting techniques or stuff like “here’s how to use hair gel” to really disturbing misogynistic stuff OR really disordered stuff very quickly (you’ll never get a date unless you’re 6’7+; promoting significant plastic surgery, women only care about whether you look a very specific way, etc). It’s a good thing to be aware of, and have open lines of communication with your kid about, since your own social media is unlikely to be directed down those rabbit holes
anon
I think you need to find him a dietician, preferably someone who specializes in sports nutrition. You don’t need a doctor’s permission to do this. And I highly doubt that your regular GP or pediatrician is going to have much in the way of advice anyway, so you might as well get on top of this sooner rather than later.
Anon
It’s weird to be okay with Ensure, Carnation, or candy instead of protein powder.
I, like most of my friends, consume protein powder / protein shakes regularly. I prefer whey protein but there are lots of good options that aren’t total chemical cr@p.
As a 5’4, 150 lbs, 30 year old athlete (past my prime, but still an athlete), I aim for 130g of protein a day when I work out and 100g a day on rest days. I eat pretty clean (hard to fit in that much protein + 5 servings of fruits and veggies a day in 1800-1900 Cals without eating clean!) but I’m totally fine with protein powder – in fact, I couldn’t reach my athletic goals without it. Your son needs 500 more calories a day, but they should be good calories not any junk just to hit the goal.
Finally the other options you listed (peanut butter, egg, yogurt) are fine but they’re not as protein packed as you think. For people focusing on high protein, those are things that I eat simply because I enjoy them – they don’t have enough protein on their own to be something I eat for protein. He should consider eating more meat, both in meals (plenty of teenage boys eat two chicken breasts at dinner!) or in snacks (beef jerky, lunch meat roll ups). I aim for 30-35g of protein per meal plus another 30-35g in my snacks (across all my snacks in the day).
go for it
I use 365 by Whole Foods Market, Unflavored Whey Protein Isolate. It is about as clean as they come.
My kid was an athlete and ate like there was no tomorrow when competing. My kid needed protein from clean sources in order to gain muscle. Kid also needed so much pasta and rice to use as available fuel for sports. He did not count calories at all. Once kid graduated collegiate sports, the food intake returned to normal.
Anon
This is my favorite protein powder too. I prefer whey and prefer unflavored (hate the taste of ones I’ve tried) so I just mix it into something flavored (Fairlife chocolate milk, fruit smoothie, yogurt, oatmeal, etc)
Anonymous
I like powdered milk or peanut butter powder as a smoothie addition to add protein that’s made of real food.
Anon
There are a lot of clean sources for protein powder. Kelly Leveque Be Well is great. Ingredients: Beef Protein Isolate, Organic Cacao Powder, Organic Monk Fruit Extract.
I’d just steer clear of pea protein that can be popular in “clean” and vegetarian brands. It’s an incomplete protein.
Anon
As is collagen powder. I use collagen powder in my coffee but whey protein powder in my protein shakes.
Anon
Could you shift his thoughts from “protein drink” to “high-protein smoothie?” My preteen son is majorly growth-spurting ATM and was underweight to begin with so we are alllllllllll about the protein and calories right now. We make this “peanut butter cup” smoothie for him multiple times a week:
-Fairlife Nutrition Plan Chocolate shake (basically a high protein chocolate milk
-big handful of frozen banana slices
-two scoops of Trader Joes collagen
-3 (sometimes more) scoops of PB2
-ice
The ingredients aren’t perfect but it’s about 50g of protein. I tried it once and while it was seriously delicious, I couldn’t even finish half.
Anonymoose
Why not have him add a Fairlife chocolate milk a couple times a day? The milk is milk, spun down and separated then extra milk proteins added back in, so it tastes like milk but acts like a protein drink with 30 g of protein. My 15 year old is in the same situation as yours (D1 prospect and health conscience) and this is our solution.
Anon
Thoughts are, gently, that you have some disordered views about food and eating and that’s not good for your son. You’re literally arguing that a Snickers bar isn’t “chemicals” and is better for your son than a protein shake. You’re basing your notion of food safety on what you think your grandparents ate. You’re not even comparing actual ingredients or labels, just worrying about what you think might be in these foods.
There’s a reason that professional athletes routinely drink protein shakes instead of scarfing Snickers bars and Carnation Instant Breakfast. That reason is that protein powders (and premade shakes) are safe, easy on the body, effective in adding calories and needed protein, and have clear nutrition labels so that, for example, you can choose one that has less sugar or is vegan.
Anon
We really like the Vital Proteins protein powder at Costco. You seem to have a lot of unusual concerns about protein powders. Things have changed a lot since your grandparents’ time (including the formulation of Ensure! but also the percent of the population that can handle really high sugar foods). I hope you’ll discuss all of this with a doctor and ideally a sports nutrition dietician.
Anon
Talk to a registered dietician with experience in sports and athletics nutrition.
Doctor Aversion
Do you know people, young or old, who resist going to the doctor for for annual checkups and who refuse to get mammograms or blood work or a colonoscopy or other screening?
If it’s not a problem of lack of insurance or bad insurance, or a lack of access to transportation, why do people resist?
Anonymous
Have you met people? It’s hard. It’s expensive. It’s stressful. Many of us have had bad experiences with doctors. Honestly it reflects poorly on your empathy that you need to ask this question.
Flats Only
Yup. Another “why do people do something I don’t understand” question. They just do. Life it too short to spend time worrying or concern-trolling over it.
Doctor Aversion
Really? It couldn’t possibly be that I am looking for ways to encourage people in my life to seek out care, when I am having difficulty understanding their particular resistance?
Anonymous
Then ask that question.
Anonymous
Ask the question. The solution is different depending on the source of the resistance and may actually be rational. For example, I have chosen to begin mammograms at a higher age than my doctor’s standard recommendation because given my individual situation the risk of a false positive worries me more than the risk of missing something. Or perhaps your loved one doesn’t want a colonoscopy because they don’t want to be sedated–in that case, find a doctor who will do it without sedation with water inflation instead of gas.
Anon
This is a board where many commenters delight in attacking others to relieve whatever anxiety they can’t manage otherwise in their real lives. Just ignore the haters and move on.
Vicky Austin
Yes. I was actually just thinking about this. My mom is at risk for breast cancer but refuses to get her mammo because she hates the process, had an insurance snafu last time, and by now has built up a mental block about it. She can be very stubborn about these things. It makes me incredibly nervous, and last time I brought it up I called her a ticking time bomb, which…did not help matters. (I did apologize.)
I’m in the process of moving to her city, and when I do, I plan to offer to go with her and take her to lunch and a pedicure afterward, or something.
Anonymous
IDK why this is so hard for you to understand – it’s stressful for some people. And that stress goes beyond insurance, finances, or transport. Sometimes it’s easy to hide behind those things when there’s a different worry. Whether true anxiety or just stress – the stress of finding something wrong, dealing with said thing. The stress of dealing with a dr who may be unkind. I’ve seen great drs over the years, I’ve also seen drs who with attitude have told me well you’re 37 not 21, something could be wrong. Don’t you think that sort of thing could make someone just say – I feel fine, no bloodwork?
Anon
It’s not wanting to find out. I am at the doctor all the freaking time now but I used to have anxiety about this kind of thing. Lots of cancer in my family and my greatest fear was leaving my kids motherless when they were little. I got over it, but I can tell you it’s anxiety and avoidance.
Anonymous
Not sure if this applies to the person you’re talking about, but there is a bizarre movement online that getting mammograms leads to “over-diagnosing” of issues that may not actually become a problematic cancer. Which is just bonkers to me. TikTok has it’s good points, but most of it seems unhinged.
Anon
Unfortunately there’s a Cochrane review to supports this, and waaaay too many people trust Cochrane reviews as part of EBM.
Anonymous
And why, pray tell, shouldn’t we trust Cochrane reviews?
Anon
I personally thought the mammogram review came across as paternalistic and sexist since it made such a big deal about how we might save more lives doing more mammograms, but women are very subject to anxiety.
But my doctor said it was true that some progress against cancer has been in five year survival rates, but with earlier diagnoses (i.e. the increase in survival time is sometimes just because we started counting sooner).
Anonymous
I have a lot more confidence in a Cochrane review than in the folklore which is the standard of care.
Anonymous
I read an article in the NY Times about 10 years ago about how mammograms over diagnosed breast cancers or found ones that would have amounted to nothing. Lots of statistics about over-treatment and survival rates etc…
I came so close to cancelling my mammogram that week because of the article and who wants to go anyway but I went and it found cancer. I am pretty sure I am here today because I did not listen to the Well column in the NYT.
Anon
Well you may have convinced me to get one. My doctor laid out some pros and cons of starting at at my age and left the choice with me, so I skipped since I have no symptoms or family history and because I wanted the heck out of there after an excruciating pap smear… but there’s nothing stopping me from going back and getting one now.
edj3
Yeah not to be an alarmist, but there’s no family history of breast cancer in my family (OK there is but it’s several generations ago). And in 2019, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
Same thing re skin checks. There’s absolutely zero skin cancer in my family, not a bit. And yet I was diagnosed with melanoma in 2017.
Anon
Fear?
Anonymous
I suck it up and do these things anyway, but I do have doctor aversion and it’s not always easy to push through it. For me it’s the result of going through a health crisis that involved a LOT of time in various doctor’s offices several years ago (some of which was very unpleasant). I am just so very much over doctors after that and hate spending any more time than I already have on medical things.
Anon
Yup. I have a condition that keeps me in the specialists’ offices frequently and I really have a hard time following up with other regular medical appointments because I get to a point where I am just plain old doctored out. Also, my PCP doesn’t use the same EMR that my specialist does, so she can’t see that I’ve already had tests done and she wants them repeated for her records, so that’s always a pain.
Anon
I may wait weeks or more for a much needed visit with a specialist only to get there and when the doc says “how are you?” I’m like “fine! How are you?” I just want the hell out of there. But I’m getting better about it now.
NaoNao
Honestly the lack of respect and even acknowledgement of pain during procedures. Doctor’s and other providers and practitioners are SO f–ing rude about this and so condescending. Like stop acting like I’m being a petulant child because your go-to is invasive, expensive, difficult, and humiliating procedures and being “confused” why I’m asking for alternatives! Stop acting like I’m the first person who ever flinched or made a noise. Stop acting like I’m the only person who ever had nerve endings or felt “discomfort”. Stop underplaying the pain and acting impatient and frustrated when I get shaky or rattled or express pain. Stop acting like my internal organs are “in the way” of getting lab results or whatever else.
Also annual checkups are usually not covered and have never benefitted me.
I notice the following: when I come in with a specific complaint and documented symptoms, it’s “normal” and nothing to worry about. But when I come in for a general checkup, I’m seconds from death and my body is falling apart unless I get 5 more expensive, painful, time-consuming tests. Funny how it works like that, huh?
And stop lecturing me in general!! There’s a way to encourage healthier eating habits and movement, etc etc without treating me like a brain damaged trouble-maker.
/endrant
Anon
It sounds like you have had a lot of bad experiences. I’m sorry.
fWIW, annual exams have to be covered under the ACA. So you should have any cost for those
Anecdata
An annual checkup actually isn’t required as “preventative care” under the ACA – a “well woman” visit is. If you’re a dude, or your provider isn’t billing it as “well woman”, you’re out of luck
And these kinds of loopholes and billing issues are what make people say “hey, this “free” preventative care is actually really stressful and potentially expensive”
As an example, I did go in for a well woman checkup, and I made sure it got billed that way. The doctor wanted blood work and I made sure to go to an in network lab. My insurance passed on a bill with a big $400 charge for an “out of network” technician who had… transferred the main blood sample into several little vials? This kind of “out of network” worker hidden within an in network facility is illegal in my state. But I still had to appeal it – twice – before insurance fixed it. I didn’t end up having to pay $ but I absolutely had to pay time and stress for it
Anon
Once burned twice shy on insurance, even if on paper it looks good. You get a provider who manages to turn it from preventative to diagnostic and that means a surprise bill when things are already really, tight. I’m in a bit better place financially now and with better insurance, but the fear of another surprise big bill still looms large. Additionally, many jobs aren’t generous with sick leave or don’t allow them to be used for appointments. It’s only been in the last couple of years where I had a job that allowed for sick leave for appointments. That relegates you to unpaid leave, or urgent care after hours for medical care. I’ve never known of a place to get a mammo, colonoscopy, etc open evenings and weekends.
Nesprin
Cost, discomfort, needing to navigate the complexities of the medical system, fear of the nonzero risks and fear of the results.
There’s also a diminishing return as people get older or more infirm- mamograms in 90 year olds for example are unlikely to extend life.
Anonymous
Also: dental work. That and a colonoscopy are unpleasant. Expensive. And the bad news can be dire.
Anon
I’d rather get a colonoscopy than dental work any day!
Anecdata
So I don’t know if this is what you’re thinking of as “resistant” but I mostly don’t go for annual checkups. Partly it’s that I don’t really see the value – the checkup seems like it’s mostly screening for stuff I already know I would need to seek care for if it were happening. Partly it’s because it’s stressful – I just hate medical environments. I am an adult and I go anyway if I need to, because being an adult means doing unpleasant things, but “go every year because you’re supposed to” isn’t compelling to me. Part of it is that it’s super inconvenient – hard to schedule an appointment, hard to figure out who (still?) takes my insurance, figuring out what my insurance actually pays for is some kinda dark magic, the billing is always wrong anyway – huge hassle for little value imo. If I were due to get a mammogram or something I would do it.
Anon
But how would you know if you were running a high A1C or high lipids? I thought they screened specifically for things that don’t have symptoms.
NaoNao
I don’t care. I know that sounds wild and likely super irresponsible but I just…I don’t care. If I start having symptoms that affect my day to day life, I’ll handle it. But I’m not going searching for things I’m now going to treat with expensive prescription drugs I have to take every day.
Anon
It sounds more like you don’t know much about it (what kind of doctor prescribes expensive prescription drugs for high A1C or high lipids before even recommending a lifestyle change?).
Anonymous
Not that poster, but my OB does basic bloodwork, so I just go for my annual well woman visit. I haven’t had a PCP since I graduated from high school.
txatty
Doctors aren’t an issue for me. I’ve found a great general practitioner who I really like and I no longer have any issues there. My neurologist is a d_ick but he always has been and it doesn’t really bother me. Dentists are another story. Last time I went I was so anxious and my blood pressure was so sky high, they should have called an ambulance for me.
I don’t even have teeth issues. I don’t know why I have this fear.
txatty
Also if you are in the general Dallas area and looking for a good female GP, I have a name for you. It’s a suburb so fair warning.
Anon
Solidarity on the dentist. I have so much dental fear it isn’t funny.
Anon
It is SO hard to find a good GP or PCP. I have kissed a lot of frogs.
Cerulean
I’m someone who always goes to my physicals and dental checkups and has very few barriers to access aside from being pressed for time. Last year, I found out I was at risk for a genetic heart defect they discovered in my dad, and I put off scheduling with a cardiologist for months. It was a weird sense of wanting to know, but also dreading the possible outcome (which would lead to further appointments and possibly major surgery), and just dreading the whole referral and scheduling process and the potential for an insurance issue. Even with good insurance, there’s no guarantee that everything will be billed properly. I finally went and am thankfully in the clear. My bother has yet to do anything, and I wonder if he ever will.
Anon
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m sorry your family had to deal with this kind of thing.
My husband’s sibling died unexpectedly from a cardiovascular emergency caused by a structural issue that can be hereditary, and the surgeon who had tried to save his life recommended the whole family be screened for it. I think my husband is still the only one in the family who has gone and gotten the recommended testing (even though his screening did find something, thankfully not something requiring surgery but just monitoring). Screening might have saved his family member’s life, so it’s hard for me to wrap my head around it, but I think it must be some kind of grief, fear, and fatalism that comes when you learned of something through another family member? And even my husband just didn’t try to get the relevant records transferred, though he was supposed to.
My family is going through something similar with a genetic diagnosis that is very high odds of inheritance, treatable, and can be asymptomatic for many years, but not everyone wants to be tested for it at all.
pink nails
My mom wouldn’t go to the doctor for annual checkups or any of the screening procedures for many years – essentially her whole middle adult life – because she struggled with her weight and didn’t want to get on the scale. She was around 50-55 when a combination of my aunts kindly but firmly talked to her (individually, they didn’t stage an intervention or anything) about how she needed to establish a primary care doctor and regular checkups. They were becoming increasingly concerned about it, and then around this same time period my mom got Lymes and it was hard to get diagnosis/treatment without a primary care doctor. So she finally established a primary care doctor and goes to checkups now. But the weight/scale thing kept her away for YEARS. Thankfully she’s just generally healthy.
Anonymous
OMG it keeps me away too.
Anon
You can decline to get on the scale. I do that sometimes. No one has ever given me a hard time about it. I just say “no thanks” and we move on.
Anon
I decline. However, I have smaller body privilege and don’t have to worry about a doctor attributing every single thing to my weight instead of actually trying to get a proper diagnosis. I understand why people living in larger bodies don’t want to go to doctors.
Anonymous
I hate the way he looks me up and down while he weighs me and every single thing is … well if you lost weight you wouldn’t have this our that… My sore throat has nothing to do with my weight. It’s humiliating.
pink nails
ugh I’m so sorry, that is such garbage lazy doctoring.
FWIW, my mom is overweight with a sedentary lifestyle while my dad is slim with an active lifestyle/regular workouts. They both eat pretty healthily. They are now both going to the doctor for all their regular check ups, more so as they are getting older. My mom’s test results come back perfect, consistently, and she only takes fish oil every day. My dad is on 7 different medications, for blood pressure, pre-diabetes, and I’m not sure what else. He’s pretty testy about it, since he objectively takes good care of himself. It would be completely unfair for a doctor to judge their healthiness based on weight alone. So much comes down to genetics.
NaoNao
And they scream it across the entire room! The scale is in the hallway with tons of RN’s and assistants and patients and open doors and people milling around and they always seem to get out a bullhorn and absolutely holler your “numbers”. They don’t seem to add the height (I’m very tall for a woman, which mitigates my weight a bit) though, just the pounds. Sigh.
Anonymous
Yes!! Why? This happens to me too.
Traveler
They are uneducated or don’t believe in science.
Story time: 2 years ago I was diagnosed with Stage 3C rectal cancer at age 45. I have gone through all my treatment & have some permanent side effects but am otherwise healthy and thriving. I firmly believe that modern medicine saved my life.
One of the key recommendations is that close family members (parents, siblings) do their colonoscopy 10 years prior to the age of the patient’s diagnosis. Both my siblings did their testing and are thankfully clear.
My only parent that I’ve been close with as an adult refuses to get a colonoscopy. Believes they “cause cancer”. Turns out I’m also judged for undergoing chemo, radiation etc. That stuff is poisonous, ya know! Probably would have been better to eat vegetables or something. It’s lead to the break-down of our relationship.
I feel strongly about everyone doing their cancer screenings, and I’ve learned that there is such a thing as just being “stupid”.
Anon
This is really reductive. I agree regular screenings are very important but there are so many reasons people don’t go to the doctor beyond being uneducated or not believing in science.
anon
You could read that post a bit more carefully, and empathically.
Anon
I read the post. I’m an early stage cancer survivor too, actually. Early screenings are incredibly important, not disagreeing with that at all. But saying that if people don’t go to the doctor “they are uneducated or don’t believe in science” is still overly simplistic. It may be the case for her family members, but fear and cost and access are real barriers for many, many Americans.
New Here
My FIL (just turned 79) has never had a colonoscopy because someone he worked with 40+ years ago died from a freak complication from one.
Anon
I’m honestly nervous about them because of a risk factor for complications that runs in my family. It’s also harder to get them done at hospitals these days, and harder to find them done while conscious when that’s recommended. I hope he at least does Cologuard screening.
New Here
I have no idea if he does, but knowing him…probably not.
Anonymous
I am extremely cautious about anesthesia, sedation, and medical procedures because my grandfather died of medical malpractice.
Anon
People are busy (or “busy”) and even if they have no huge objection just don’t find the time to look up a provider, make the appt, do the follow-through etc. Some people have child care issues and use their time for other things that seem pressing.
You tossed colonoscopy into your list like it’s nothing, but mine (in my early 30s due to a risk factor) was such a terrible experience that I have anxiety over repeating it. Hunger and faintness all day, nausea and shaking from the Suprep that I couldn’t finish, had to switch to a miralax prep halfway through and was vomiting all night…procedure itself was fine but I had a lot of cramping and bloating for days after from the gas. It’s not like nipping to the pharmacy for a quick vaccine (another thing people really should do, of course!)
Being a hypochondriac makes me do the thing. But the other people in my family with the same risk factor have not done it/wont do the follow ups
Anon
The part about needing an escort for the colonoscopy is a huge obstacle for a lot of people. Currently society’s solution seems to be “know someone personally who really owes you a favor”!
anon
It was a huge obstacle for me. I hard to hire someone to take me home, and even that was difficult.
Anon
It could be some combination of hassle, fear, cost, discomfort, time. I actually am on the other end of the spectrum – I dutifully go to every annual preventative appointment with primary care doctor, OB/gyn, mammogram, dermatologist, eye doctor, dentist, and I have my first colonoscopy scheduled for a month after my 45th birthday – but it is a HUGE pain to keep up with these and I really dislike these appointments. I do it because I’m conscientious, believe in science and medicine, and I want to be healthy for myself, my kids, my husband and the rest of my loved ones.
First, I have to take time away from work, which is a frustrating use of PTO. Often there are long wait times at the appointments, and frequently it is really hard to get an appointment in the first place.
Second, many / most of the procedures are unpleasant. I have a fear of needles and hate having my blood drawn. Paps are painful. Likewise mammograms are really unpleasant. I’ve also had multiple follow up / diagnostic mammograms and biopsies (thankfully all clear), which result in additional time commitment and are painful and scary. I am dreading the prep for my colonoscopy and have heard many awful stories about how terrible the prep is. Getting a cavity filled or a mole removed is uncomfortable. I’ve had all these done because I recognize it is better to nip things in the bud preventatively, but I’m not surprised at all by people avoiding them.
Third, after you’ve dealt with all of the hassle and discomfort, dealing with the medical billing process is atrocious. I’ve spent hours on hold with my providers and insurance companies getting bills corrected. I’ve also spent a ton of $$ on medical expenses – and I’m a very healthy, active 45 year old! I have access to good health insurance, but I’ve opted for a high deductible plan (so I can access and get a company match to my HSA) so every appointment has a significant out of pocket cost until I reach my deductible.
Our healthcare system is a mess. If you want to convince a loved one to get care, I wouldn’t minimize these issues, but rather emphasize the logic that it is worth the hassle/cost/unpleasantness/ whatever for better health outcomes and early detection if there are any issues.
Anon
The prep for a colonoscopy is honestly not that bad!!! The worst part for me was having to fast, I was so hungry!
Anon
I (mid-50s) do not get preventive check-ups or testing. I have been to the doctor twice in the last 20 years. Both were orthopedists when injuries did not heal after several weeks. Neither was worth my time or the $500 it cost me. I generally do not think check-ups do any good. I am in excellent health, have no known genetic risk factors, and have had multiple bad experiences with doctors, billing departments, front-office staff, etc. The potential, very remote payoff for going to the expense and trouble is just smaller than the very likely, almost certain, annoyance level. Like everything else, I weigh the costs and benefits, and the costs come out ahead.
Anonymous
Maybe they don’t want to burn 3 days of limited PTO on a colonoscopy (prep, procedure, being useless the next day from the sedation).
Anon
PSA if other folks are looking for summer tops – Boden has a ton of cute short sleeve sweaters/shells in linen or cotton. I was also able to find some natural fiber options at Ann Taylor but it took a LOT of digging. Also rolling my eyes at Jcrew’s ‘summer weight’ (thin and badly made) cashmere sweaters.
Anony
Boden does look promising! I sweated through my synthetic blood in my walk in this morning. Any petite readers have favorite boden pieces?
Anony
* blouse!
Anon
Darn! I was so intrigued.
Anon
Me too!
Anon
Are they 100% natural fibers though? I definitely had tops from Boden that were mixed and didn’t help much.
Meg
I have also had problems with everything at Boden being too cropped for my comfort.
Anon
I was just perusing their site because I saw an ad for a linen tee with fluttery sleeves. It was so cute until I clicked through enough pictures to see the length. Ugh. It barely reaches the model’s waist.
Lobbyist
my son did this when he was playing football. He went toGNC and bought bunch of different ones and then we kept buying the ones he liked. Some taste terrible. Protein powder is fine. I’d also get peanut butter and lots of chicken breasts.
Anon
How do I stop feeling so grumpy about my career? I have 2 jobs; 1 gives me no support and my requests for normal office needs is treated like I’m asking for gold bars, the other micromanages me and even monitors emails and provides weekly feedback about how employees word things down to how we greet people or sign emails. I don’t have a better job option and need both for finances but this mix is making me hate my career. The industry is already becoming more politicized and people are early retiring and going to other fields, so I’m losing allies and having to pick up the slack when jobs aren’t filled quickly. I don’t want to hate my job. How do I stop hating it when I can’t change this?
Anonymous
You don’t. Focus on what you can do to get out.
Anon
Having two jobs sounds insane to me. That’s probably the root of the problem.
Anonymous
You can either make peace with what you can’t control, or you make changes.
I’m curious about the connection between these two jobs and your career. What is it about your career that forces you to take multiple jobs?
Work Phone
Sadly, my first thought is that she’s a teacher.
Anonymous
Be honest ladies – my dr is encouraging me to get my first mammogram as I’m the right age for it. How much does this hurt? I’m barely an A cup so there isn’t much there to squeeze, so I’m imagining a ton of pain. I know why it’s important so I’m not looking for scary stories regarding women who never got the testing done, as I know I’ll do it. But just trying to mentally prepare. Is there anything you can do to make it less painful? Is this the kind of thing where Advil beforehand or anything helps or not really.
Anonymous
I just had my first, and it was really not painful. The tech warned me about discomfort, but I didn’t even really think it was that, just kind of weird. The compressions did not take long.
Anonymous
If you have a point in your cycle where that part of your anatomy gets tender, do not have your first mammogram then. I’m about your age and built like you. My first was excruciating. My second was fine. The time of the month was the difference.
Anon
If your cycle is regular, schedule it for right after your period. That tends to be when your breasts are least tender.
It’s not my idea of a fun time but it’s not painful. Just pressure.
Anon
I started annual mammograms in my 20s due to family history and results of genetic testing. The fear of the pain was worse for me than the actual pain. It does hurt some but goes quickly – and it wasn’t the worst pain in my life. It is also awkward and uncomfortable. Advil before did not do much for me. You will get through it and it will be easier the next time.
Anon
I kept getting the giggles… nerves and for whatever reason, I had in my head, “you put your right t*t in, you put your right t*t out….”
It wasn’t bad at all. The tech i had was a pro at positioning and was quick.
Anon
I love it! “Do the hokey pokey!” I usually think of what I’ll buy with the “wellness benefit” my insurance company pays me.
Anonymous
I would do a mammogram daily over a pap. I just didn’t think it was bad? I can’t imagine that an advil or anything would help – it’s just not very long of a process.
Anon
I do find it painful, but in an annoying way, not an “omg I’m dying and close to sobbing” way. I can get through it and you will be able to too.
emeralds
Growing up my mom always told me that mammograms were the worst–that they hurt terribly, that she’d be sore for days afterward, etc. I had to get one early this year and I was really nervous, since I have small breasts…and it was completely fine. I won’t say it was comfortable, but I do enough yoga that putting my body in an unnatural-feeling position and moderating my breathing for a few minutes is doable. It never rose above a feeling of discomfort to me, and the “big” moments of pressure only ever lasted for a couple of seconds at a time. Honestly, the part I wasn’t expecting was how much contortion was involved in getting into the right position for each angle.
I told the tech afterwards that I was surprised how not-horrible the experience was. She said that sometimes women with smaller breasts have it easier since there isn’t as much tissue to manage, but that it was just incredibly variable from woman to woman and that sensitivity can also vary depending on where you are in your cycle. So it might be really painful for you, but it also might not.
Digby
Each pose is pretty brief, so any pain or discomfort doesn’t last very long. If you’re feeling true pain, let the technician know – maybe they can reposition you a bit. Honestly, though, they may just tell you “I know it’s uncomfortable, but I need to get this view, and it will be over quickly.” And then they basically jog back and forth to the controls so they can release you from the position as quickly as possible. If you get swelling or tenderness before your period, definitely don’t schedule your mammogram for that time of the month.
LA Law
It really is not that bad! (I promise!) Do not schedule it for a time of the month when you are tender and you will be fine. If you have the option to go to a facility that just does mammograms, take it. YMMV but for me it is much less painful than my pap.
Also, take any stories about how horrible it is with a grain of salt. When I had my first (15 years ago) it was worse because the equipment was not as advanced. The technology has gotten much better.
Anonymous
I honestly don’t find them painful at all. I do time them to early in my cycle and have large and droopy boobs, so YMMV. But mammograms for me are quick and painless.
Anonymous
I’m 50 and prone to dense tissue so I have had quite a few by now. Honestly, I would put the pain at like a 1 or 2 where laser hair removal was like a 9. Not sure if that helps put it in perspective, but I think people over dramatize the discomfort. I would put a Pap smear around an 8 or 9 as well.
Anon
It’s painful, but as a fellow barely-A, it’s over before you know it. They only take a few pictures on each side when you’re this small.
anon
+1
As someone with very small breasts with the tissue very flat / spread out, so it’s painful for me. In fact, I’ve been torn before and it took a few months to recover. So that really messes with my mind now with every mammogram. I stopped doing them for years, when my PCP brushed off my discomfort. And the rush to get you in and out and zero empathy from the tech is the norm.
Some folks take an ativan before it, as of course anxiety will make pain worse.
Anon
I’m a very small A cup and my b r e a s t s are very dense so they get extra squished. I don’t think it’s all that bad. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. But it’s nowhere close to some of the other bodily pain I have experienced. All of the techs who have done mine are extremely compassionate women who do them as quickly as possible and understand it’s not the most pleasant experience in the world.
Anonymous
Not bad. Take a couple of advils before if you are worried.
Anon
I want to know where you are all going to get quick mammograms! I’ve never had one that was less than 3 rounds of pictures — so position, position, position, then sit and wait with a drape over you until the pics are read, then some retakes, sit and wait again, then more pics, sit and wait and then told to get dressed and go. I wouldn’t say it’s painful, just more uncomfortable, and I’m short so I usually need to stand on my toes for the positioning and photos. Never quick. But the center I go to is open nights and weekends, so at least it isn’t time off from work.
Anon
I’ve always been in and out in 10 minutes. They don’t read them until later. I’m also fairly short (5’3”) and they adjust the machine down to me. Have you had previous call backs that would require reads while you wait?
Anon
+1 same. They don’t read them for me while I am there and it is almost always 10 mins or less. And mine are dense too.
Anon
If you want to look on the bright side, at least your place is being thorough!
Anonymous
I think it depends on the skill of the technician. I am also an A and have heard horror stories of small-chested people having their tissues torn. I would ask anyone you can–friends, your doctor, even the scheduler–for recommendations for specific clinics and techs who are skilled with the less well endowed.
Anonymous
I had to start getting them earlier than the usual recommended age and it’s really not as bad as I feared. It’s not comfortable and a little painful, but I’ve had worse pain from period cramps. Tech told me it’s less painful with smaller breasts. And agree with everyone about scheduling it for the right time in your cycle.
(I also ended up having to get a biopsy of a nodule after my first one. It also wasn’t that bad (and biopsy was benign.
Do not panic if they seem something and request additional imaging/biopsy, it’s common when they don’t already have a baseline)).
New Here
I have my first scheduled for July, so I’m curious about the pain as well…
Just passing on something my doc said to me when we talked about scheduling – Don’t be surprised if, after your first, they call you back for more scans. They have nothing to compare scans to yet, so they just need to get a closer look to have a baseline of what you look like.
Seventh Sister
I didn’t really find it painful at all. That said, I’m much bigger than you (D cup) and I have a pretty high pain tolerance in general. On the scale between a vaccination jab and the insertion of an IUD, it’s way closer to the first one.
anon
Agree. To me (B cup) it’s not painful at all. Having a cat briefly walk across my chest is worse. I’ve had a spinal tap, a botched epidural from a med student, many dental procedures, and an IUD insertion, and the IUD was by far the worst.
Maybe comparable to a blood pressure cuff — that kind of pressure, only of shorter duration and not even as intense?
Pippa
The machines have improved – each image is quicker, they are more easily positioned, the “plates” are less smooth and grip more so less pressure is needed to hold the breast than 25 years ago. All those tweaks make it less painful. Your mom and grandma weren’t wrong, early machines were painful. But commenters here aren’t wrong either. Get recommendations from friends. Do the test. Get the tech’s name. If it went well, schedule with her again. If not, ask for someone else next time.
Go!
I literally had a mammogram for both breasts yesterday. The tech described it as “a little unpleasantness,” and she was accurate. It’s pretty short, and more uncomfortable than painful. Now, I’m a 34H, so I have a lot of tissue to smush, and it’s still fine. :)
Senior Attorney
Okay, travelers, hit me with your best Paris recommendations. We will be there for five days in late October and are looking for a nice hotel (last time we stayed at Hotel d’Angleterre in St Germain de Pres and loved it, but open to a new area), places to eat, things to do. We have done Giverny and Versailles. Looking for a private guide for the Louvre as well as other interesting outings. What say you?
NYCer
For hotels, I highly recommend J.K. Place. Also, if you have not been, Fondation Louis Vuitton is worth a visit.
Anon
I’ve stayed at the Hotel Regina several times and have always been pleased (and I am a serious hotel snob).
Anon
Hyatt Place Vendome
So, so nice!
Anon
Mixed up my words. Park Hyatt Vendome
Much higher end than a Hyatt Place!
Pastry Anon
Wow, thank you so much to the commenters who had lovely words of support/encouragement on my comment yesterday about quitting my job to go to pastry school! I hadn’t posted about it on here because I felt…oddly shy about it? I was worried that the general sentiment would be a sensible “this is a huge pipe dream and a mistake”. Which maybe it is! But wasn’t ready to hear that from the hive.
Some additional details if interested: early 30s, single. I currently work in tech–used to really like my job until I was moved to a new team about a year ago and it’s been terrible. I’m an avid home baker and going to pastry school was my longstanding daydream. It was always my answer to “what would you do if you won the lottery?” but I could never justify the reduced income that would come along with switching careers. I had a horrible 2023 (my mom was battling cancer and my best friend passed away suddenly, among other things) and that combined with the stress from work had me questioning my entire life. Through therapy I got to the space of “you can do everything right and play it safe and your life can still go to h3ll, so just do what you want anyway.” With no kids or elder care obligations and healthy savings, this is of course a really privileged mindset to be able to have, but I’ll take it.
After running the financials and realizing that I could swing it, I enrolled in a year long pastry program at a culinary school in Paris. The first half is classroom instruction and the second half will be a kitchen apprenticeship. I have my visa, my apartment, and I’m leaving at the end of the summer–ahhh! I’ll be at my job through the summer, and am gritting my teeth through it. No idea what I’ll do when the program is over–this is the first time in my life I’m jumping into something without a long term game plan. It’s scary! But trusting in yourself is a skill I have to build up.
Thanks again for all the support. This community is wonderful.
Senior Attorney
WOW! This is so great!
Senior Attorney
Uh, maybe we can have coffee when I’m there in October?
Pastry Anon
I would absolutely love that! I’ll post a burner email in a later update
Nananon
I love this! Please, please keep us updated!
Anonymous
That’s amazing and as a somewhat avid baker who occasionally fantasizes about quitting law to open a bakery, I am jealous. Keep us updated! Do you speak French?
Pastry Anon
Thank you! I also have fantasies of opening a bakery–potential pivot when I return.
And yes, I do! Not fluent but I’m comfortably conversational. The class instruction is in English and the curriculum includes French classes so that everyone knows at least basic French going into the kitchen apprenticeship portion.
Anon
This is amazing! I’m so happy for you. I wish I had the money to do something similar (personally I would run away to the English countryside to open a bookshop).
SFAttorney
Congratulations for following your dream! It will probably be challenging but also very rewarding. Like the other poster, I’m curious about your fluency and whether instruction will be in French.
Anon
Love this so much! And so many hugs–my best friend passed away unexpectedly in 2023 (car accident) and 2023 REALLY SUCKED. Bravo to you for doing something for you.
anon
I thought it was uncomfortable and awkward, but at one point it really did hurt and I just told the tech and she moved me. It was like going to the dentist.