ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Brooklyn Ankle Utility Pant

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A woman wearing a black jacket, black pants, white top, and blue sneakers

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When I made the switch from working in a law firm to working in-house, I don’t think I fully appreciated the sartorial implications. Yes, I still wear suits and blazers with some frequency, but sometimes I’m visiting sites that require more freedom of movement than pencil skirts can provide. The men I work with all gravitate toward the ABC pants from Lululemon, but I prefer Athleta for these types of situations.

The Brooklyn Pant (paired with loafers, flats, or steel-toed boots) fits the bill for a comfy pant that still looks professional, and this “utility” version comes with pockets! I usually add my favorite work tee and a stretchy blazer.

The pants are $99 at Athleta and come in sizes 0–16. They’re also available in petite and tall inseams.

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

365 Comments

  1. Looking for career advice.
    I’m in my 5th year as an employment partner at a medium size law firm. I make just below the median amount of money for partners at my firm. About 2/3 of my client work is “inherited” or “institutional” business clients and about 1/3 is my origination. About half the client files I work on, I’m the only attorney contact they have at my firm due to pandemic retirements. I like what I do, but I would like more variety. I do not like my firm. The policies are pretty anti-woman, we operate in silos, and we’re in the tech dark ages (example: we meet the ethical standards for my state, but don’t have any software for client file management… just file explorer; multiple attorneys hand-write their time entries which are emailed to accounting to compile into client bills).

    I’m tempted to go in house – but I know it’ll be less money, and likely more hours, work, meetings. I know many people have found an outside hobby to scratch an itch, but I spend 50-60 hours a week in a physical office and would like to have more intellectually interesting/challenging work. Thoughts?

    1. IDK where you are but our local bar has a lot of practice-specific lunch groups. Human contact will let you suss out local players and needs and cost just a tiny bit of money and time. It’s OK to nose around and try to build out your practice and add scope or find places to plug in or in-house opportunities. Eventually, people will seek you out if they know your abilities and interests better.

    2. I’d challenge your assumptions – perhaps less money overall (though some of a salary drop is offset by better benefits in many cases) but most in-house attorneys work fewer hours than their firm counterparts. The business development part of your job disappears! And while some of the day-to-day work can be tedious, you also get involved way earlier on with issues than a firm will – so you get to help to shape early strategy and are part of the team, which has its own interest.

      Based on my mid-career set, most of us are physically in the office 2-3 days and work roughly 8:30-5:30, barring emergencies.

      1. Yep!! My life got about 18472919 times better when I went in house. A lot of my time and brain space cleared up to pursue fun hobbies and I love my coworkers. It’s less money, but I still make a very comfortable living!

    3. I work in house at a university. We would be very interested in someone with your skill set. It’s hardly Big Law money, but you would start north of $200k with great benefits.

      1. This is interesting to me — what sorts of skill sets are universities looking at? Anything transactional (like when you deal with donors, are tax skills relevant? or when you buy land or build a dorm, who reviews your contracts?)? I want to branch out slowly and IDK how things are elsewhere.

      2. North of $200k for a person with 5 years of experience seems incredibly optimistic for higher ed! I’m at a public R1 and our GC makes $400k+ but our deputy GCs are right at $200k, most staff attorneys are around $150k including some people who’ve worked here for 20 years, and junior people come in around $120k (often with considerably more than 5 years of experience).

        Also keep in mind that there isn’t much room for salary growth in higher ed, as evidenced by the small difference between the salaries for new hires and 20+ year staff attorneys. Unless you get promoted way up into a public-facing position like GC you just get a 2-3% cost of living raise every year, which at this point doesn’t even really keep pace with inflation.

        1. She’s been a partner for 5 years not a lawyer for 5 years. That’s at least 13 years of experience.

          1. Ah you’re right, I misread! Still, I don’t think you should expect $200k+ in higher ed unless you’re at the deputy GC level or higher and those roles are more limited than the regular “counsel” or “staff attorney”-type positions. We normally hire law firm partners for senior staff attorney roles, although our local law firms don’t pay anywhere near Big Law money so the pay cut isn’t as big as it would be for some people.

        2. Plus, don’t forget that when you leave a firm (especially as a partner) to go in-house (especially in higher ed), you leave a work environment in which there are several paths forward/up, most of which you can influence and you enter a work environment in which any path forward/up is restricted by FTE limits and supervisors who don’t answer to profit motives.

        3. There must be a range among universities. I posted above and 10 years experience with some useful area of specialization (like personnel, labor, transactions, grants) would easily get $200k in my region, without any deputy or similar status. I also have found annual raises generally run 4-7% with more for periodic salary scale adjustments. Benefits are great, too.

    4. Have you considered another firm? Your complaints about tech, file management, and at least to some extent about misogyny would be very different at another firm. You might be able to take some of those institutional clients with you. Have you considered one of the online based firms? You’d get a lot of freedom and you’d take home more of what you earn, plus their tech support is supposed to be good.

  2. I could use some advice or someone to tell me if I’m off-base. I found out this week that I’ve been making a mistake at work and my boss was aware and didn’t tell me. When I asked her WHY she never told me, she said “You seemed so determined that you were doing it correctly.” I really like her normally, but I am so bothered by this and it seems like bad management. The mistake isn’t a huge deal, but it will have some consequences and other people might question why I was doing it incorrectly. I’m embarrassed and ashamed and can’t stop dwelling on it. I wish she had just overruled me! How can I recover from this?

    1. Hmm. Maybe she decided the consequences weren’t that big a deal and you would learn a lesson of double checking yourself better the “hard way”?

      I’d just ask her. “I’m embarrassed at the mistake and also don’t want to be seen as the kind of person who won’t be corrected! Am I coming off this way to others?”

      2. There are a few people where I work who aren’t interested in feedback and will argue back that they have done nothing wrong. iDK if you have this reputation, but there is a sense that some people won’t take a clue and we’ve stopped trying.

        1. I have a direct report like this and I’ve stopped giving feedback on certain things because I know it won’t be received well. When someone else (superior to him, but not in his reporting hierarchy) gave him feedback on something he said in a meeting, he flipped out on me later that “I’m old enough to decide how I want to be portrayed at work.” Which, fine. I am now careful about feedback on style but it definitely hurts his career advancement.

          If you’re very confident about doing things the wrong way and your boss sees it, that’s something I’d try to correct asap.

          1. I have one person I work with who will do one thing objectively wrong and 5 other things sub-par but not clearly wrong. She doesn’t take feedback well so I concentrate on the 1 most wrong thing and work on that versus the ones she will push back on. I’m about done trying with her and plan to work with other people when possible. It is exhausting.

          1. I think what people are telling you is that you might not appear to be receptive to it.

          2. LOL- a frank denial to people telling you you may be hard to give feedback isn’t the greatest of looks.

        3. At my work, we have a situation where an older white man who thinks he is God’s gift to the company loves to offer unsolicited feedback on people’s writing. It’s like he’s trying to assume a mentor role that the other person didn’t consent to. There could be a deadline in two hours and he would leave comments like “consider whether this is the best phrasing here” instead of making direct edits or staying out of it. Sometimes people blow off feedback for a good reason. It was the best work move I ever made to decline working closely with him on one of his projects.

    2. That sounds like pretty bad management to me. Depending on your relationship with your boss, you could say something like “I’m embarrassed about my mistake — please do correct me if that happens again!”

      And give yourself some grace. Mistakes happen, and this one seems annoying but not terrible.

    3. I wonder if her awareness wasn’t 100% beforehand? But maybe it wasn’t that kind of mistake. But I do have the kind of personality that can make other people doubt themselves if I’m wrong and they’re right, so sometimes I’m not corrected because someone is second guessing themselves!

      1. That’s how it read to me (trying to give the benefit of the doubt). Like you had different views or interpretations of the matter, she decided to let you go ahead and with the benefit of hindsight, that was the wrong call?

    4. That is really strange on your boss’s part. I’d do your best to move on and give yourself some grace.

    5. I have no patience for games like that and would be direct. “Wow, I’m mortified. Are you trying to find a way to tell me that I’m coming off as a know-it-all who won’t take advice? I’ve never gotten that feedback in my working life, but if that’s how I’m coming off in this job, clearly I need to try something new. In any case, I would ask for you to please correct me in the future before I continue making mistakes that cost the company money.”

      Bad management for sure. I’d watch your back.

      1. I agree with you in spirit but think this tone is too aggressively defensive – actually an example of the kind of tone that, *if* it’s what the OP was using in her work, seems unreceptive to feedback.

        2. Yeah, I think you’re right. I’m honestly just frustrated by that kind of management and wish more people would put a stop to it. At my workplace, bad managers are just allowed to continue on forever and it really gets to me. Plus my work is so passive aggressive and nothing is ever said directly. Hard to find the balance.

          1. I have tried (and TRIED) to give feedback verbally in the moment. And the people who take it worst when it’s not fawning praise were most likely to duck post-mortem “let’s review what happened on this deal” calls when we started remote work. I hate waiting until the review cycle to drop it on you that you don’t take direction well and don’t take feedback to heart and are not open to getting better in your role, but at this point, people who think they deserve promotions because they are so good are finding out (not just from me) that they are not even good at their current job and are on a PIP as a prelude to being let go. Just face the bad news, adjust accordingly, and have your only comments back be either yes, understood and/or thank you. B*tch to your friends. Don’t tell your boss that you think you’re doing everything fine.

      2. I would only respond like this if you were comfortable trashing the relationship with your boss. Cat’s advice above is a much better way to respond if you genuinely want to correct the issue.

      3. People here come up with the absolute worst scripts sometimes. I sometimes wonder if they’ve actually ever interacted with humans before.

        1. I wonder if it’s a kind of fantasy, like this is what I would say if there were no repercussions of any kind (such as in someone else’s hypothetical conversation).

    6. So good news guys, I ended up speaking to my manager this morning and the mistake wasn’t as big of a deal as I think it is and she’s not mad or anything, so I think it’s fine. We have a really great relationship and she has a history of providing feedback when I need it, which I’m always grateful to receive and learn from, so it’s not like I can’t take criticism! I do think this was a case of giving me the benefit of the doubt.

      3. Nicely done “doing the thing” and having the conversation to clear this up! (and glad it worked out!)

    7. I think one of the consequences of being a confident person is that we usually come off pretty confident bordering on strident. I’ve noticed that people won’t correct me when I’m wrong. Sometimes it’s because they assume they’re wrong and I’m right because “I seem so sure” lol. But sometimes I think it’s probably not worth the effort for them. Idk what to do about it other than apologize and assure them they can tell you if you’re wrong.

      1. I go out of my way to ask for feedback from colleagues and direct reports because I’ve been told I can be intitmidating. I know that tunnel vision can impact any one of us! That is why we need a team.

  3. CapHill Style did a post a week or so ago about a similar pair of Athleta pants and how to style them, which I liked. Let me see if I can find that.

    2. I bought both the pants featured in today’s post and the Endless pants featured in the link here and ended up keeping the Endless. The differences seemed minor when viewing online but the fit of the Endless was much better for me. I’d recommend trying both if you like the idea of the style. They’ve been workhorses for me – I got 2 pairs.

      1. The Endless is the more professional looking option imho. Fit issues aside, the Brooklyn screams athletic wear to me in a way that the Endless doesn’t. It’s really hard to tell from a picture but in person there’s a big difference.

        2. It’s not on-season, but if I can put in a plug for the lined Brooklyn pants, let me do so. They are awesome! My favorite travel-on-a-plane pants. Comfy. Pockets. Warm without being too warm. More polished then leggings. Just bought on sale in black as a second color option since I wear them so much.

          I have Brooklyn non-cargos and wear them to work on late-work days, but work is officially casual and most of my items worn with it are plain white blouse and often a sweater-jacket. Sneakers seem to be the only shoes that look appropriate with them, but IMO that is OK for my life.

        3. Agreed but personally I would not wear either to work in my casual law office. In my life, they are for anything at home, running errands, breezy walks, and possibly daytime outdoor social occasions.

          1. +1

            Yes, these are not professional at all. Tech-light fabric. So easy, sturdy, comfortable.

            But not great for my pear shape, yet I wear them…. such is the search for pants.

          2. It’s not ideal, but in my casual office, Brooklyns are more formal than 99% of the people there on any given day (and it’s more like my private remote office since I often see no one in an 8-hour stretch).

      1. Google images says they’re close to Adidas Men’s Handball shoes in Bluebird but that isn’t quite right. Any ideas?

          2. Anon is asking about the blue sneakers in the pic in the post here, not Cap Hill Style.

        2. I am pretty sure they are the Adidas Court 3.0 in Bluebird with the logo and stripes photoshopped out.

    4. Don’t patronize that site. She is a former NRA lobbyist who brands herself as moderate, but is anything but.

      1. I’m honestly surprised to see her name pop up here again. I thought she was, uh, remembered for those views.

      2. And after Newtown she talked about how hard it was for *her* because people said mean things to her. Abra is a despicable person, politics aside.

  4. DC area camping recommendations (please)! My partner and I want to go camping next week and I have no idea where to start. Within 2-4 hours of driving distance, glamping ok, but not in someone’s backyard, regular camping with a camping pad, tent, and fire pit also good. Mainly looking for somewhere peaceful, pretty, and quiet. Bathroom nearby would be nice but not necessary. Hiking trails would be nice, too. Mostly trying to reconnect with each other somewhere pretty and peaceful.

    1. New River State Park has a couple of locations where you can camp and bear boxes. It is so pretty.

      1. NRSP might be at your outer limits of travel (it’s 66W and then past Roanoke). Recommend campsite reservations and if there is a ranger onsight at night (one NRSP site has this). Va State Park website is good and tells you what amenities there are (bear boxes, water, toilets).

        There is also good hiking around Lexington VA but I haven’t camped there.

    2. Shenandoah River State Park in Virginia has gravel campsites by the river with nice bathrooms and a sink for dishwashing. I don’t know about walk-up availability, though—we reserved in advance.

      1. I was also going to recommend Shenandoah River. Maybe also Sky Meadows, which has the bonus of being near some nice wineries if that would help you and your partner reconnect :)

        1. Agreed with both recommendations — but definitely try to get reserved sites in advance. We just hiked at Shenandoah River State Park last week, and when I arrived, all walk up camping spots were taken on like a Wednesday night (might have been spring break – I’m not sure, but definitely try to reserve before you go). We also love Westmoreland State Park. I have small kids, so never want to risk not having a reserved site, and sometimes have better luck reserving on the private sites (glamping hub or hipcamp) than using recreation.gov if I’m trying to get something on short notice.

    3. We’ve had good experiences at Shenandoah River State Park – we’ve stayed in the cabins but they have tent sites too. Pleasant trails and along the river.

    4. Owens Creek Campground at Catoctin (National Park) is our go-to, nearby, easy car camping favorite. It’s really pretty, quick drive, and there are various hiking options between the national park and nearby state park. The camp sites are on the smaller side, but perfect for just one couple. They have bathrooms with flush toilets and sinks and hot showers.

    6. Love both Sky Meadows and Catoctin mentioned above. Sky Meadows has hike-in sites that are particularly quiet and not too long of a hike from your car. Catoctin is a dry campsite, FWIW.

      1. Re: being a dry campsite – we’ve stayed in number of national parks that, like Catoctin, are officially dry. As long as you don’t leave alcohol out when you’re not around, or make so much noise that someone calls the camp host on you, I don’t think it’s enforced. I guess the other thing to say about Catoctin, is that it’s the only campsite I’ve stayed at where I’ve seen a park ranger with a long gun. That was slightly unnerving. I think that IF the President is at Camp David, which is nearby, there is oddly high security at the campsite. That’s our working theory at least.

    7. Agree the Shenandoah campgrounds are best for a mix of forest, views, and hiking. If you’re looking for something more coastal, Assateague Island is about three hours away and has fantastic beach camping, hiking, and kayaking. Wild horses add to the charm. You’ll want to make a reservation and stay on the beach side, not the bay side, which has major mosquito issues.

  5. I need a pair of flats formal enough to wear with a suit and be on my feet or walking for several hours at a time. Not a fan of the Mary Jane style and I need a slight real heel, even if it is just half an inch (so no flat ballerinas). I have an older M Gemi pair that they don’t make anymore. What are good current options to check out?

      1. Also recommend these. A little stiff at first, but once I broke them in, they’re my most comfortable pair of heels, and I’m not someone who ever believes heels can be comfortable. And the style is very classic.

        1. Can you wear Varas with pants? I’ve never seen that in the wild. Varinas, yes, but I think they would look too girlish with a skirt suit. It is HARD to find a good balance or one shoe that works for everything.

          1. They weren’t right with skinnies, but I can see them looking nice with the right hem & leg width.

    3. Sounds like you need the Ann Mashburn buckle flat, or one of the many dupes out there.

    4. Anne Klein are real workhorses for me. I can wear their flats or wedges for hours on my feet and you can’t beat the price. Clarks also has a couple of flats that are very comfortable and not too frumpy.

    6. I’m wearing the Rockport Total Motion Adelyn flats today in the black patent and they feel perfectly appropriate with my dress/blazer combo. They’re a pointy toed “flat” with a 1/2″ heel. The insoles are highly cushioned.

    7. Tory Burch, if they fit your foot well. There are styles that don’t have the medallion.

        1. I have the same problem with slip-on shoes not saying on my feet but the Ara Leena Sneaker in woven stretch fabric work well. I have them in black and recently wore them on a business trip with lots of walking. The black color does not look like a sneaker.

    9. Are you open to loafers? I think those are more current and, for me anyway, usually more comfortable for walking.

  6. Any work pants for bigger belly’s? I’m a size 16 with an apron belly. Dresses make me look pregnant so I tend to like pants. But all my work pants lately (Ann Taylor and even theory) seem to really stretch out at the crotch or kind of slide down to the underside of my belly so the whole look is saggy. Size 18 looks way too big and size 14 doesn’t close around the middle. Any miracle dress pants? I’ve been looking really sloppy lately I feel like because of this – I feel like im always yanking my pants up and even with a belt. I do have a pair of pont loft pants with an elastic waist that stay put but they def give off a more casual vibe. I’ve also realized that tucking in with a blazer over actually makes me look less big than a billowy shirt so I would like the ability to tuck

    1. Try out some petite rise pants, in a number of different sizes and styles.
      While petite length is shorter, good dress pants have some hem to let down if you need it.

    2. Talbots is your friend here. Try their 14w cut. If you are petite, go with a 14wp. A regular 16 may work also. Order a variety of sizes and return what doesn’t work.

      1. +!
        Try the curvy fit. I had the same issue you describe and realize that the pants are sliding down because the waist is too big. Curvy fit is cut wider in the hip and smaller in the waist so it might solve the problem. Also I find that pull on/elastic waist pants work best for me due to the curviness issue. In terms of how they look, I remind myself that well made elastic waist pants that fit will look a whole lot better than traditional pants with zipper that are sagging to my crotch.

    3. I’m the same size/shape and I love my Old Navy Taylor pants. They’re super high waisted so they stay up.

    4. I’m in the same boat. I have a pair on today that fit at the widest point of my hips but the rest is drapey and saggy.

    5. You may have luck with Universal Standard. A lot of their pants have a flat waistband in front and an elastic back, which can help with sizing. And if you’re wearing a blazer over, the elastic part is hidden. I’ve found that US doesn’t fit my pear shape very well, so I think it’s more designed to fit a belly.

      Also, it’s counterintuitive, but you probably want a high rise on your trousers instead of a lower rise. In your current pants, the waist is slipping down because there isn’t enough fabric from waist to crotch. That area is shortened when you sit and lengthens when you stand. Your pants are probably close to a high enough rise, so when you put them on, they work, but when you sit and then stand up, they slide down a bit. If nothing fits well, a tailor can help.

    6. Try to embrace the high waisted pleated look with tucked in shirts — it’s an adjustment but I find works very well with an apron belly.

      1. I saw someone on Instagram do this look and it looked great but I didn’t see where the pants were from. I will keep an eye out

      1. Yawn.

        You couldn’t understand that was a typo form a person probably typing on their phone on a casual message board?

    8. For the pants shown, I was skeptical… but as a petite size 20 – the size 20 was sold out in almost every color. I feel like that’s an endorsement from my cohort

    10. High waisted pants worked best during my apron belly stage. I bought them all at thrift stores and I don’t have them anymore so I don’t have brand recommendations unfortunately.

  7. Yesterday I had a moment that only the people here can appreciate.

    I got invited to an online meeting with about 15 minutes notice. The invitation came from my skip level, to a meeting organized by her VP. No problem.

    When I signed on, everyone had cameras on. I looked at the purple tie-dye t-shirt I was wearing and knew that I needed to do something different. I still have blazers in the closet in my office, so while everyone was doing introductions, I was able to grab a teal one and toss it on.

    Today I am a bit more prepared. White linen button down and a couple other blazers at the ready.

    1. IDK, purple and teal was my color combo of choice in 1994, so I applaud your boldness and effort. :)

    3. I’m just jealous that you still have days where you don’t expect to need to be reasonably camera-ready!

      1. I’m almost never camera ready. I only have a few meetings per week and don’t turn on video.

      2. Most days don’t include a meeting that requires any more preparation than “get out of bed “, but I still prefer to at least put on a little concealer and make my hair look like I didn’t sleep standing on my head. Our internal team meetings are camera on required, but we are all extremely casual about our appearances.

        I had to change shirts after lunch, thanks to spilled cheese sauce down the front. Now I’m going with a navy t-shirt and pink linen jacket for today’s meeting with leadership.

  8. Day 4 of a miserable cold and I am still so congested and don’t have much of a voice. I feel like I’ve done all the home remedies and need to venture into the OTC decongestants. Any recommendations for something that won’t make me feel loopy or completely out of it?

    I feel like such a freaking toddler. I have been miserable. I took one full sick day and have been working at home ever since because I’m coughing and sneezing all over the place. My kids have places they need to be in the evenings, so I’m still splitting duties with DH because the logistics make it impossible for one person to completely take over. Then I crash in bed around 8:30 and have a terrible night of sleep.

    I feel like everyone is mildly annoyed with me for not just sucking it up. But I am pretty miserable. Hoping that I haven’t ventured into “man cold” territory.

    2. If your kids are little, skip the activities. If the kids are old enough that they really can’t miss a couple of activities, they’re old enough to carpool, so reach out to their friends or teammates’ parents and ask for help. You shouldn’t be taking them to activities sick. It’s rude to other people and will delay your own healing. Lean on your village and rest.

    3. I’m a fan of the “get it out, don’t dry it up” approach, so I’m go for Mucinex and nasal saline rinses (neti pot, usually). It’s not a quick fix though.

        1. And I’ve found that even if the neti pot doesn’t flush it out (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t), it at least hydrates it/thins it out enough that the crud can maybe start to move on its own.

      2. Neil Med squeeze bottle with distilled water and Neil Med salt/crystals.

        And for goodness sake, no one in your household should be going to activities with others – you don’t know who might be vulnerable and while it’s a few days for you, it could be much more serious for them. I mean, I know the designated public health emergency is over, but you can still really hurt others if you’re not thoughtful.

      1. Combine this advice with the advice to use Mucinex and get the Mucinex-D behind the counter for the win.

      2. +1 This is the only one that works for me. If you need something more potent, see it your doctor can prescribe capmist.

    5. soooo any chance it’s actually Covid? In the last few weeks I’ve had 3 friends all get a significant bout of it, in different parts of the country. I’ve not kept up with the news so I don’t know if there’s a new strain or what.

    6. I’m sensitive to the side effects of most OTC cold remedies, but also have a tendency towards terrible congestion with colds and getting subsequent sinus infections. My best move is using an OTC steroid nasal spray, like Flonase. Buy the least expensive store brand, because you’ll want to toss it once you’re over the cold. Also, Ayr saline gel helps me a lot. I prefer the thicker version in a little tube over the spray version.

      Hope you feel better soon!

    7. Friendly suggestion. Might be worth a trip to urgent care to get a quick checked for strep throat. Signed the mom last week who couldn’t get out of bed last week from exhaustion of what I thought was a common cold.

      1. I also just got strep and it knocked me out for four or five days! But usually not accompanied by congestion and coughing, according to my dr.

    8. I hope you feel better soon. As long as you’re not walking around mentioning the cold every single second, you’re probably fine on that score. I have a friend who is incredibly dramatic with every single cold and will literally not respond to people’s important updates on the family group text unless it’s to say how miserable she’s feeling. Don’t be that person, but otherwise you’re fine.

    9. If you’re that tired I’d test for COVID.

      I can’t take decongestants but find that Advil helps with the swelling of the mucus membranes.

      1. Are people still testing for COVID? I was recently sick and I didn’t bother, I just stayed home because that’s what I would do regardless.

        2. We do, as I’m immunocompromised.

          Also, I would want to know, in case Long Covid symptoms develop later.

        5. Not everyone stays home if it’s “just a cold,” even though they should (as OP should be doing). A positive COVID test is a better excuse to stay home and rest.

          1. I’ve been home every day except one, and I wore a mask. For my kids’ activities, I’ve been in the car and not around other people besides my kids.

        6. I would probably test if I felt really sick like OP does, but I don’t test for every cold anymore. We have kids in daycare and school, so we catch a lot of colds and we’d go bankrupt on tests if we were repeatedly testing the whole family every time someone had a runny nose.

          I do realize this isn’t exactly logical because when I had confirmed Covid it was super mild, basically a cross between allergy symptoms and a mild cold. It was Influenza A that took me out this year with a high fever and feeling like death warmed over. So it’s very possible some of our mild colds have been Covid and we didn’t know.

          1. You wouldn’t go bankrupt. You are actively choosing not to care about whether you’re infecting others. Call a spade a spade.

          2. Home testing is expensive and not that sensitive. I don’t think it’s helpful to get on people’s cases for not testing all the time. If people mask up when they have symptoms, then they’ll avoid spreading whatever they have as well as any infection that didn’t show on tests.

          4. “Bankrupt” was obviously hyperbole but we would be spending at least $100 per month if we tested our family of four for every runny nose. We were spending ~$50/month on tests in 2021-2022 and that was with a bunch of free govt tests. It’s a significant expense! You can’t just test once and be done with it. Covid often doesn’t show up on an home test until the fourth or fifth day of symptoms.

            We stay home when sick and wear a KN95 if we have to be in public.

          5. Mostly not testing in my circles anymore, realistically. I still have some leftover tests from the last round of USPS mailed ones, but tbh I only use them because my work will authorize a few days of WFH for COVID but not for a cold.

          6. You don’t have to test for every sniffle, but OP has been exhausted and moderately ill for days. I think we can use common sense to find the middle ground when testing is appropriate

          7. I’m the 11:14 poster and I said I would test if I was as sick as OP is. But I don’t think Covid is necessarily correlated with how sick you get – it was a super mild illness for me the one time I know I had it.

        7. I assume people who are hoping to treat with Paxlovid (or metformin, or anything really) are still testing, yes.

        8. Yes please. If you test you can find out if you can get Paxlovid. It also helps the numbers. COVID is definitely still here.

        10. Yes, with at home tests, but not as frequently as before. I tested when I felt particularly run down and flu-like, with a sore throat that lasted a week (and was strep negative). It immediately turned positive. For me it was important to know because I’m pregnant and thus needed to start on baby aspirin. But in general I want to know so we can mask up at home and while out for 5+ days; for regular colds and other mild illnesses we don’t mask. Masking at home prevented my family from catching it from me, and I masked in public until I had two negative tests 48-hours apart

        12. Nope, largely they are not in my very blue city in my very blue state. No virtue signaling here, it’s just a fact of reality.

          1. Same. I don’t know anyone who is still testing unless they’re immunocompromised and want Paxlovid. Super liberal, pro-science community with many people who didn’t resume indoor dining until 2022.

        13. Adding a data point to say yes, me and my partner are still testing when we get sick.

    10. Neti-pot (make sure you buy distilled water to use with it!) and behind-the-counter Sudafed are my go-tos for congestion. Tea with lemon and honey for voice.

    11. Not sure what OTC meds you are using, but my pharmacist BFF says the only one worth a damn is sudafed from behind the counter. And then NyQuil at night.

      1. +1 to real Sudafed, the one you have to ask the pharmacist for. The alternatives are garbage, pretty well documented.

    12. Advil cold & sinus (or the generic) is a good decongestant and doesn’t make you sleepy.

    13. My husband does the same thing. Definitely take the real medicine right away when you get sick. There’s no virtue in not taking cold medicine.

    14. Every time I get sick, I have a similar internal narrative, but I’ve been trying to change it after making myself very sick a year and a half ago by trying to push through. Now I try to be kinder to myself, and I encourage you to be kinder to yourself. Listen to your body. Rest. Take the OTC medication (my healthcare providers recommend Mucinex, nasal saline rinses, and cough medicine). Drink fluids.

      FWIW, I don’t think we do ourselves favors by labeling illnesses a “man cold.” Every time DH gets sick, he goes into full, stereotypical, man-cold territory and taps out–just takes medicine and sleeps and leaves me to do everything. And then he wakes up 100% fine after 1 day, maybe 2. I, on the other hand, try to push through, still feel like there’s not enough energy to spread around to everyone who wants it, actually confuse and annoy people who aren’t getting clear messages about how sick I am, and end up being sick for 2 weeks or more. I’m convinced now that DH’s way is more efficient, and “man cold” should be relabeled as “self care.”

      1. +1 million to your second paragraph although in my case I do it the “man cold” way and my husband tries to push through.

    15. A good friend of mine is in the ICU facing multiple organ failure from what started as a cold, so I say get all the rest you need an don’t worry about being annoying! (I recognize this is extreme and quite unlikely to happen here, but I’m a bit fragile at the moment.)

    16. I promise you that no one is annoyed with you for being sick. Everyone gets sick. They just want you to rest so you can get better.

      1. That’s a nice thought, but not really true, at least not in the workplace. I take more sick days than most because I have a lot of sick time and I want to rest and recover when I get sick. And people are definitely annoyed by it! I don’t really care, but they are annoyed. A lot of bosses care more about the company’s bottom line than the employee’s well being.

  9. After yesterday’s book discussion, I thought this could be a fun thread. What are your book/reading pet peeves? Mine are below:

    -Non-fiction authors who indulge every tangent to try to get the page count above 300 for niche books – seriously, I don’t need to know the birthplace of the inventor of bottled oxygen to read an Everest summit story.
    – Fiction authors who try so very hard to be literary and end up abusing metaphors, adding tons of obvious symbolism, or dropping quotation marks or paragraphs or named characters or other typical conventions. Hamnet was the absolute worst for this.
    – Male authors trying to write s*x scenes…need I say more?
    – Fiction books that try to beat you over the head with a not-subtle moral message (e.g., a character giving a three-page sermon on why racism is bad) instead of letting the lesson develop naturally through the characters and plot.
    – Related to books, people who feel the need to say “audiobooks aren’t real books” or “Danielle Steel isn’t an author” or “her book was garbage anyway” when they have a beef with the author. People should read what they want to read however they want to read it! Fun is a really important part of reading.

    What are yours?

    1. I agree with many of yours! One of my big pet peeves is when you can tell that characters are on the verge of having a breakthrough or full development, but then the author never quite gets there.

      Somebody said yesterday that they wish there were more authors like Elin Hildebrand, and I really agree. I find her books tick the “fun” box while not being completely brainless. You’d think that would be more common, but it’s not!

    2. I agree with most of yours! I also find the flip side to excessive wordiness is excessive use of the one word sentence or authors who think completely giving up on punctuation is modern.
      Super cheesy metaphors.
      Artificially contrived cliffhanger endings – you spent 350 pages carefully crafting a story, and then for shock value you destroyed everything in tue last 15 pagesl.
      And people who get high and mighty about literature – I was an English lit undergrad who enjoys reading the classics, but I also like a fun summer romance, cool graphic novel, and the occasional celebrity biography.

      1. I recently read a book that promised on the cover/in the intro to solve the mystery of three missing people and every single chapter ended in a cliffhanger implying that the big break was just around the corner. Every plot point meandered in a way that suggested the crucial clue was coming from an unexpected place. Then the book ended suddenly saying that the disappearances had never been solved. I almost threw it across the room.

          1. Oh that one is on my TBR but if that’s the outcome, I would join Anon at 9:55 in wanting to pitch it across the room and will save myself the frustration.

          2. You guessed it! I don’t feel bad for spoiling it for anyone here – trust me, you would all hate it too.

          4. I read that also. It had no business being a book. I get that the families want closure, and that finding the bodies is nearly impossible, so the families rarely get said closure. But that is 3 sentences’ worth of information stretched into a book.

          5. Agreed it had no business being a book. The only way it could have worked was to open with the information that these were unsolved disappearances and then focus on the technology (that drone search stuff was actually pretty interesting) or the emotional lives of the survivors or something. It did NOT work to write it as a suspenseful true story and then drop that bomb suddenly at the end.

      2. Twists have to MAKE SENSE! I will never forgive television for making us forget this. (Looking at you, GOT and Steven Moffat.)

        1. +1. I get that it’s hard to foreshadow in a way that balances predictability and randomness. But I HATE it when the twist is inconsistent with previous characterization or plotting. Even when we have an unreliable narrator, there has to be a clue that the narrator is in fact unreliable, and some hint of the objective reality.

          1. Indeed. In many cases television prioritized shock value and causing tweet-storms over the consistency you mention. I hate it.

            (Worth mentioning, the first couple and most famous twists in GOT/ASOIAF are fine in this respect. It was everything that came after with the HBO show that makes me so angry.)

        2. OMG this! My kid is sick of hearing me rant about JK Rowling’s terrible plotting but I fully agree. I don’t care what the ‘rules’ of your world that you’re building are but they have to make sense and be applied consistently!

    3. Nonfiction books that should have just been 2-3 long articles in the Atlantic or the NYT Sunday Magazine.

      1. YES. I’ve slogged through or DNFed books that barely had enough content for one 500-word article.

    4. I very rarely want to read a book written in present tense. I honestly wish I could filter for this!

      I’ve complained about this here before because I encountered it a few times a row in literary fiction, but I’m done with stories that seem designed to cultivate sympathy for some kind of abuser where neither the character nor the narrative appears to show any concern for the victims, but only for the character’s own self-absorbed remorse. Again this would be my CW filter if it were an option.

      I read a lot of poorly edited writing (self-published writing, web novels, experts in fields that don’t focus much on writing, student writing, My Immortal, whatever). I don’t let a lack of editing stop me from reading something I’d otherwise learn from or enjoy, and I know it doesn’t reflect on the quality of the story or the ideas or the intelligence of the writer. But it still bothers me when publishers don’t bother to edit light fiction in print books that I bought and paid for. The worst fiction offender I’ve encountered was the otherwise fun Lunar Chronicles, which was filled with homonym errors that should have been so easy to catch and correct (and I say that as someone who is relatively bad at catching homonym errors).

      I don’t really enjoy writing that feels like it wanted to be a movie (not sure how to describe this, but when I get the feeling that there’s an unnecessary human interest plot, or Hollywood fluff, or like it’s following familiar film conventions and tropes, but in writing where I don’t find it necessary to slow things down or vary the pacing the same way; I guess I want a more focused story).

      I visualize everything as I’m reading, so it throws me off if I learn something about e.g. a character’s appearance pages after their introduction. It’s not a big deal, but I notice every time it happens!

      2. On your first point, I haaaate books that are told from the perspective of an abuser. Even if the book isn’t trying to make me feel sympathy for that person, I can’t stand it. I was reading one last year where the perspective shifted to an abusive husband and the chapter ended with a r-pe scene and I had to skip the rest of the chapter and put the book down. No thank you ever.

      3. Urgh, I’ve had the Lunar Chronicles on my list for nearly a decade and I’m so annoyed by homonym errors…time to accept the inevitable? Thanks for the heads-up.

      4. ‘Nora goes off script’ annoyed me for this reason – it 100% read as a spec script that got published as a novel and just did not work for me in book form.

    5. Far too many coincidences. I will give an author one big coincidence; however, almost endless coincidences annoy me.

      For example, some big event happened in San Diego in 1995. Now it’s 2018 and the protagonist lives in Washington DC. Somehow the ambulance driver from 1995 works security in her office building; the daughter of the old lady who lived down the street in San Diego lives one floor below her; and the cute guy who went to a different high school in Cali is now a lobbyist.

    6. Unreliable narrators! It was fine in Gone Girl but every other instance just seems lazy.

      1. Yeah Gone Girl was fresh and original; the approximately 17 million books that were inspired by Gone Girl not so much.

      2. Gone Girl is perpetually on my “to be read” list. I watched the movie but I feel like I missed the point entirely – I have such a crush on Rosamund Pike that I’m like, “I don’t understand why dumb Ben Affleck just doesn’t do everything she could possibly want and make her happy. That’s all that matters.”

      3. Oh man Gone Girl was so good – I read it around the time it came out and still remember exactly where I was when I turned that page and the narrative switched to Amy!

    7. My biggest one by a mile is being preached at. I can use my critical thinking skills to get the moral message just fine, thank you!

    8. All these crappy romances/thrillers marketed to women on TikTok like Colleen Hoover. My god, they are bad.

      1. I am a long time fantasy/scifi reader and I HATE booktok for dumbing down all the recent fantasy novels. If you want dumb fun romantasy fine, I won’t yuck your yum but please don’t claim you ‘love’ fantasy and scifi if all you’ve read is Sarah Maas.

    9. ooh this is fun!

      most of mine are in thrillers…narratives that alternate perspectives every other chapter. Nearly all first person present tense writing. Dead baby (or inability to have a baby) as an “explains it all” backstory for a psychotic or unstable female character. When the big reveal is that ooh, you thought we were in time X, but really it was time Y (usually earlier than X) all along.

      In literary fiction, I get bored with an overly “New Yorker Short Story” vibe, or when it’s all quiet set pieces and no plotting. Or when the author is a lovely writer but simply cannot figure out an ending, so the plot just…stops.

      1. Omg, OP here and I can’t believe I left “alternating perspectives every chapter” off my list. I cannot even read a book with that structure anymore.

        1. God, same! I forget who people are after a few chapters. I’m otherwise enjoying Kate Atkinson’s Jackson Brodie series, but yeesh.

        2. I will sometimes just pick one and skip the rest. That is how I read (and even enjoyed) the Daevabad trilogy that someone mentioned yesterday.

    10. My pet peeve is that such a large percentage of books published today rely on abuse, genocide, etc. to generate drama. My real-life job involves a decent amount of exposure to human suffering and the underbelly of society and I don’t want that in my entertainment.

    11. Sloppiness in editing (e.g., a read a book recently with a minor character’s name spelled two different ways maybe 100 pages apart) and sloppiness in research. By the latter, I mean something the author could have googled or just had a quick conversation about and clearly didn’t. I remember reading a Jodi Picoult book years ago, with a character who was a swimmer and the descriptions of her practices and meets and skill level were just wrong (I was a former D1 swimmer). Fair or unfair it really soured me on her as an author because it seemed so careless!

      1. I loathe spelling mistakes, duplicate words, missing commas etc. I have observed that it happens more with eBooks, but overall editing/proofreading seems sloppier throughout.

        Also, as a genre, I personally hate esoteric/religion-adjacent self-help books. Someone gifted me a book that was disguised as a story about some supernatural powers (I would give it a try), but it was all about how angels
        and fairies guard over the reader and affect their mind etc. I made it through two pages and then donated it.

      2. Completely agree re: sloppy editing and bad research.

        I once tried to read a friend’s wife’s book. Within the first five pages, she mentioned an event happening in the mid-19th century that involved a 20th century invention. No, this wasn’t steampunk or time travel; she… just didn’t bother to think through to a world in which this common invention didn’t exist.

    12. Books where the issue would be resolved in 5 seconds if the characters just talked to each other. It just feels like a lazy way to draw out the story.

      1. +1. I feel like way too many romances rely on this and I would read more of them if this wasn’t such a common plot device. It just makes me hate the characters and think they don’t belong together.

      2. I hate this, and I doubly hate it when authors use flashbacks to string out the resolution bc there isn’t enough tension/conflict to sustain the present-tense story. Emily Henry’s People We Meet on Vacation was a prime example of this to me.

      3. +1. I really love Abby Jiminez’s stories because the conflict is usually that the characters have mutually exclusive goals or desires and need to decide whether/ how to move forward together. I also really appreciated the setup in Jasmine Guillory’s Drunk On Love. I’ve heard from fellow romance readers that M/M romance novels tend to rely more on external conflict.

    13. So with you on that fourth one about fiction books sermonizing. Let me live! Let me absorb the lesson organically!

      For me, the thing I CANNOT do – and I’ve seen this in published books – is people saying “Okay” in a Tudor setting. It drives me BONKERS. Check up on your period-appropriate slang!

      1. Yes! I read a book set in 1940s Italy, and the characters are supposed to be either Italian or British, but the author is American. The main character is a British Lord who calls his father “Dad”. Maybe I’ve watched too much Downton Abbey but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a thing. Also, the main character goes to get some food in this small Italian village at a “deli”. Pretty sure delis are not a thing in Italy. I get that this is mostly destined to an American audience but there were a lot of little things like that and I found it really strange and off-putting.

    14. As an avid reader of romance novels, sometimes I need to read something formulaic. But I have noticed that some plots rely too much on
      a) A very young woman being blown away by an older “real man” who has unresolved issues with ex-partners/grief/substance abuse/etc, which he drags into the new relationship, but then in the end magically comes around with the help and support of young woman. Very problematic.
      b) Helplessness of the female character facing “big girl” problems, with a male character constantly saving her from getting into more trouble. Yes, grown-up life sucks, but please don’t go on for pages about the character being incapable of finding their way in new city/country while travelling, not speaking the language, or being generally clueless. These situations can be a starter for a fun novel, but shouldn’t be unnecessarily drawn out to make the woman look stupid.

      Is it too much to ask that I want to read about a capable and intelligent woman who is mostly independent and getting into some spicy adventures with some attractive dude who’s also smart? (Post your recs, please, if you have found this holy grail of romance lit.)

      1. I’m with you.

        For romance lit with smart, independent female characters and dudes who get their s–t together, Laurel Kerr books.

      2. I recommended Abby Jiminez above for different reasons, but I’d specifically recommend Part of Your World and Yours Truly for funny, intelligent, capable female characters.

      3. For romances with smart women, I love Chloe Liese’s Bergman series and most of Penny Reid’s (except the series with college women dating professors – as an academic, ICK).

    16. …it’s not that “audiobooks aren’t real books”
      it’s that listening is not the same as reading. and that’s ok.

      1. Besides the obvious, how so? Genuinely curious. I read a lot of books, but I also listen to audiobooks in the car. I’m not sure that I get anything different from the two experiences.

        1. I’ve read that the brain processes information in the same way, regardless of whether we read or listen, and comprehension is about the same. Here’s a citation to a study where scientists mapped the brain’s processing of stories: https://www.jneurosci.org/content/39/39/7722
          And here’s an article interviewing a neuroscientist about how the same area of the brain processes semantics, regardless of auditory vs visual inputs: https://www.wellandgood.com/reading-versus-listening/

        2. So some of this is just common sense to me.
          Do you “read” songs while you’re driving?
          Do you “read” podcasts while you’re walking your dog?
          No. We have different words for these things because they are different experiences. One is not better than the other, but they are different.
          Note: this is not an argument I take publicly because people get incredibly defensive about it (which tells me they know deep down that reading and listening are different), and to me it isn’t worth the fight. But I do truly believe this.

    17. I am sooo tired of flashbacks.
      I had an unfortunate spell last year where 4-5 books in a row used that device and I am officially sick of it. I never want a flashback again.

    19. I find wallpaper-ish historical romances almost unreadable now. I can’t take all these young unmarried women going around having sex without thought to consequences. In a time prior to easy to access contraception and where the penalties for unwed pregnancies were major–nope! I can’t turn off my brain to that extent.

  10. Has anyone bought a swimsuit from cupshe? Getting served ads & like the style, but the price point makes me wonder about quality. More generally, looking to restock for the summer with suits I can wear that allow for actual movement (will be chasing a toddler around). Would love any recommendations!

    1. I like Kona Sol brand at Target. They’ve held up really well. There’s also a seller on eBay that sells brand new Kona Sol suits from previous seasons for $8 or so.

    2. A relative buys 2 new ones every year and likes them. They are only good for a year as they wear from sitting on edges of concrete pools

    3. I love Title 9 swimsuits for actual movement. They work for chasing a toddler around water parks. :)

    4. I have probably ~10 suits from them, and I think they’re great. Sizing can be a little small, but I am around water a lot in the summer/doing water sports, and they hold up well.

    5. I wear the Andie Malibu suit for this purpose (chasing toddlers). I get a lot of compliments on it and it’s held up really well.

    6. Yes, I bought one secondhand and it feels flattering and doesn’t feel super flimsy or anything. I also wore mine when in the pool with my toddler. I think it’s a brand that Walmart carries, so consider that data point: fine, cheap, but don’t be surprised when it wears out.

    7. Cupshe is available on Amazon and then you can return through amazon if needed. I have a few and like them- flattering but also fast fashion.

    8. I’ve worn my Cupshe swimsuit for 2 years now! Not astoundingly high quality but definitely holding up okay. They are a little more on the cleavage-y side (both too and bottom) so be careful with that but I wear it running after my toddler and feel fine about it.

    9. OP here – these reviews & suggests are super helpful. Thank you! Adding some stuff to my cart & excited to get outside and enjoy the water :)

          1. There are a lot of other very good reasons to avoid Shein and the like besides quality.

  11. Does anyone have a brand or a retailer to recommend for good quality ceilings fans? If it makes a difference I’m looking for one to use on a screen porch (so exposure to humidity and possibly blowing rain), with a light, preferably in the style where the blades look like palm leaves.

    1. I was going to recommend my local lighting store here in So Cal, but if you have a screen porch you’re somewhere else so I will just recommend you ask around for your own local very good brick and mortar lighting store.

    2. Do you happen to have a Dan’s Fan City near you? They are in the SEUS up through mid-Atlantic. They make up your fan for you, so you pick X motor and Y blades and Z light. Excellent quality, and they can help you with the potential moisture element.

    4. I love my Minka Aire fan, but I don’t know if they come in that style — any Lowe’s or Home Depot should be a good source. My son is obsessed with them and loves Hamptom Bay and Harbor Breeze; those seem to be really huge/common brands.

    5. I love our Minkas – quiet, unobtrusive, effective. Anywhere exposed to the elements is going to have a shortened lifespan though.

  12. I’m not entirely sure how to ask this question, so bear with me… Are there ways to become more comfortable with the inevitability of death (both your own and the ones you love)? This is something I’ve been thinking a lot about the last few years as parents age and loved ones get sick. I’m not looking to minimize feelings of loss or the sadness but this is something that happens to everyone, no exception, and yet it is always a kind of shock. Can we do things now to help prepare without being detached or maudlin?

    I am not religious and don’t have a spirituality practice. Is this something that is made easier by faith? Are other cultures better at this? Is it dependent on the how and when and why? I’d love any resources or guidance.

    1. Well that’s a small little question for our Thursday mornings! I’m not religious either, but I’ve absorbed enough Buddhism from people around me, dabbling in meditation, media sources, etc. that I found that a comfort in facing my mother’s death. (It was still terrible and grief is awful, but gave me tools to cope.) The idea that pain, joy, birth, death, etc. are all inevitable and acceptable parts of life and the human experience, and that pain and death can exist without necessarily being a tragedy, or source of suffering, even. You can just breathe through it all and accept the waves of good and bad. I don’t know if that makes sense, but it helps me. Separately, and I know this is kooky, but I’m a huge fan of the TV show The Good Place, and the last season eventually has a sort of positive spin on death.

      1. I agree with everything in this comment. And The Good Place had the best last episode of any tv show in a long time!

      2. I just led my moms’ group in a study of the book of Ecclesiastes that covered very similar themes, but our conclusion was that rather than just “breathing through” the joyful and painful parts of life we should embrace them. The supplemental resources I used were Wisdom and Work by J. Daryl Charles and To Love This Earthly Life by Michael Casey. Ecclesiastes is my favorite book of the Bible and I think it’s worth a deep dive for anyone searching for meaning regardless of their religious beliefs. [For context, I make this recommendation as a liberal mainline Protestant with multiple graduate degrees, a highly academic approach to biblical interpretation that regards the various documents that make up the Bible as human products that reflect the social and political contexts in which they were written, and a propensity for challenging and questioning everything. This recommendation is not coming from some evangelical nut or southern church lady.]

        For bite-sized introductions to various movements in philosophy, I recommend A Little History of Philosophy by Nigel Warburton.

        1. A Little History of Philosophy looks great, thanks for suggesting. (Because my love of The Good Place gets me thinking I should read more philosophy — moral and otherwise — and then I don’t make the time.)

    2. I’ve been thinking about this a lot too lately. My friends and I are just getting to the age where we’re starting to lose our parents (luckily mine are healthy). I honestly don’t know how I’ll cope when the time comes for me.

    3. I am religious, so it much help on the emotional front.

      On the pragmatic front, I can say that not accepting death leads to a tremendous amount of dysfunction. There is the obvious: not making a Will, not planning for retirement, not planning for old age or infirmities that often go along with that, etc.

      There is the emotional: not letting your adult children grow up because having “grown up” adult children means you are old, and old means you might die. Forever young amirite?

      There is the lack of understanding that when you pass from this earth, you don’t control anything anymore. What you have left is goodwill; your Stuff is going to be given away or (likely) tossed in the trash. Forcing people to keep your Stuff doesn’t keep you alive; it just clutters up their house. Playing games in your will with your Stuff just leaves hurt and pain as your legacy. You can’t force someone to speak kindly of you to their kids or grandkids. What you have left is goodwill, or not.

      I’m a big believer in things moving both ways. Accepting the inevitability of death helps people to make estate plans and “let go” of the need to control things for all time, etc etc. However, going through those motions can also help you to accept death, and it does so in little chunks. Then maybe the big chunk is a bit easier to handle.

    4. I don’t think there is anything we can do now to prepare for the inevitable. I think that only detracts from the joy in the moment although I know easier said than done. After experiencing several unexpected losses (freak accidents, aggressive cancer in someone in their 20’s, fentanyl), things that you expect to happen, are not the things that happen. It is the unexpected that throw us for a loop. Stop trying to predict or plan. Those predictable things won’t happen. All you are doing is preventing yourself from enjoying your time with loved ones. Also, I heard that you will become who you need to be in the moment. We cannot imagine how we will survive these losses but in the moment, you will. You will wake up and get out of bed and go about your day. You may cry and breakdown but you will get up again and get through it.

    5. I found 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals helpful for thinking about what impact death should have on what we do and think before then.

    6. I do think religious faith can help with this. I am comforted by the knowledge that the end of this life is the beginning of something else, and that I will see my children again.

      That said, I almost died some years back – I was dying and was aware I was dying and it was really, really horrible. What helped me get over that experience was practicing maranasati meditation – you can read about it online. Christian belief and practice brings me comfort about the reality of death but I didn’t find it gave me the right tools to cope with my experience of the process of actually dying and the knowledge that will come again.

    7. My religion opposes death, so in our tradition, it feels like it is more about investing in the ongoing fight against death (by helping people access food, shelter, and healthcare, and supporting ongoing medical research) and valuing every moment of life. I guess the comfort comes from feeling that we are doing what we can?

      1. Your religion opposes death? Don’t we all? What does it look like when. You don’t.

        1. I don’t know if I can be fair to other people’s views, but I definitely know people who have different religious outlooks, like that the afterlife is an upgrade so dying sooner can be better than dying later, or that medical intervention or preventive measures can sometimes be in conflict with divine will or show a lack of faith vs. accepting when your time has come or leaving things in God’s hands? Or that it’s all the circle of life and it’s good for people to return to a spiritual existence or to the earth/nature, or to make way for younger people?

          Or some people in this thread mentioned the Good Place, and I couldn’t understand how it ended at all. So I think that must be an example of adifferent outlook.

      2. Having some tradition to follow surrounding commemoration is also important to me (or at least starting one).

    8. Book recommendation: Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. Does a great job of talking about end of life care, and how different people have different priorities as the end nears. It also helped give me the language to talk to my parents about how they are preparing for the end of their lives – financially, spiritually, etc. We’ve made some great memories as a result of those conversations.

    9. I lost both of my parents at an age when 99% of my peers had two healthy parents still alive. I’m not sure anything can really prepare you once they or other loved ones are gone. The grief and change to your life will come when it comes. Grief itself can be very isolating, so I would focus on building a strong support system. The friends and family I have seen struggle most when a loved one passes are those who didn’t have much of a social structure outside of that person.

      One of the things death brings is perspective, so I would also think about future you. Looking ahead to when your parent or relative is gone, are there things you wish you would have said to them, done with them, shared with them? Whether your relationship is wonderful or troubled, is there anything you might regret not having done or said when they are gone? Can you make plans to do it while they are alive? Be grateful and intentional with the time you have.

      Some deaths are sudden, but if you do have time to prepare when a loved one is facing a terminal illness or in hospice care, think about how you want to be there to support them. This will be helpful to them of course, but also to you. The time I was able to spent with my parents while they were dying was a comfort to them and to me, including after they passed. I am so glad we had that time, even though it was often sad and scary.

      1. I’ve been with three immediate family members as they died. It changes you, but in a way, it helped me see death as less scary.

    10. I enjoy these discussions bc people’s different belief systems and ways of thinking about things are so interesting.

      I can’t say I will be of much help though, as I have never had a fear of death and I am very comfortable with the fact that I could die in 5 minutes and so could everyone else. I did not have much death in my family growing up – however, my family was and is not the sort to express affection or talk about emotions so I generally am not sentimental and don’t get attached to things. I believe and am comforted by the thought that we are tiny tiny bits of energy in a huge vast universe and when the energy that propels my body stops doing so, it doesn’t disappear, it moves on to something else. I would like a green burial or to be composted which brings me great joy bc I know my remains will go back to the earth and potentially help new life grow. I love thinking about how my body can contribute in this way.

      Lots of food for thought on this topic!

    11. I had always known that it’s inevitable and did things with the mindset that it’s actually sooner rather than later, eg I tried really hard to take trips and make memories and treat them as well as I could. But when my dad’s diagnosis came I was still hit with grief like a ton of bricks. There’s honestly a difference in rationally knowing something and emotionally going through it in real time that I don’t think grief gets any easier simply through anticipation.

      Now I’m at a stage in life where I’m funeral planning for both parents, one more imminent than the other. That may sound morbid, but there is comfort in gaining a sense of control over a situation where we have very little control. I can’t save my dad from cancer but I can give him a sunny spot in a park-like setting like he asks for, and of course this is a personal choice but his wanting to be buried means I’ll be able to visit him from time to time so that he’s still here with us in some way. I’m not religious either so I don’t necessarily think he’ll go off to somewhere nicer, but at least I know his pain will have stopped and there’s comfort there too.

      1. People will take offense at this but I personally hate the “celebrations of life” in place of funerals. They can give short-shrift to the grief process when they are held months after the fact. Even though I am not religious, traditions and customs have a good purpose and that includes the burial process.

    12. I can’t recommend it, but managing care for a loved one going through an awful terminal illness made me a lot more comfortable with death. It helped that the loved one was older and had lived a full and excellent life, as much as I wished for a few more decades with my loved one.

      Perhaps volunteering with a nonprofit hospice provider might help you get comfortable with death, while also helping the dying.

    13. This might be a wacky idea, but I wonder if taking classes to be certified as a death doula would be the right approach?

      1. or volunteering at a hospice, or at a hospital/nursing home that has a program for someone to sit with a patient who might otherwise die alone? I think there can be a pretty big gap between “philosophically/intellectually I understand death is inevitable” and the lived experience of actually being with the dying

    14. I mean, no one is good at this, and no one has an answer.

      Are you willing to try some french existentialism about the fundamental absurdity of life? Buddhist thought on how acceptance of suffering is the highest goal? Christian faith on the immortality of the spirit and the presence of a perfect joyful afterlife? Grounding exercises on living in the here in now? Denial? Spending time working with hospices to get used to death and dying?

      1. I’m still very afraid of dying, but leaning into absurdism has really helped me reframe a lot of things.

    15. A local coffee shop has started hosting what they call “Death Cafe” (I think monthly). It is a forum to engage in dialogue about death in general, and specifically not a grief support group to talk about individual losses. Perhaps you would want to start something similar in your neighborhood if this is on your mind.

    16. One of my kids has been asking about this a lot as we have aging family members and are on our 3rd family death since the new year.

      We have taken a “we are hear to enjoy moments with people, and our memories are what’s important” approach. Live in the now. Don’t be reckless but also, you only live once. Do the thing. Take the trip. Have the party. My oldest is 12 and I can’t believe we only have 6 years until she moves out. It’s not the same thing as death AT ALL but her 10th birthday was a big wakeup that childhood is fast.

      We have an aging pet and our kids are constantly reminding each other not to take him for granted because he won’t be around much longer.

      FWIW we are not religious at all. My kids have no beliefs in an afterlife.

    17. My mother’s been dead since 2015 and I am just now emotionally ready to deal with her STUFF. Even so, she was more accepting in that she downsized considerably and she had her affairs in order in terms of a will, etc. while she was in her late 60s. (Her stuff is the sentimental stuff and not junk in a giant house. MIL was in great denial and she continued to spend a lot on things to fix up her large home and refused to make a will. On Death and Dying by Elizabeth Kubler Ross is a must read.

    18. When I scheduled my dog’s final appointment at the vet, I spent the previous two days taking him around the neighborhood for our friends and their dogs to say good-by. It was very good for *me* because I was able to mourn him with people who loved him. He wasn’t the first dog who died on my watch, but this experienced was the most loving and (I think) healthiest for me.

      When my best friend told me she had stage IV metastatic breast cancer, I basically started mourning her right away, so when she did die a year later, it was easier to deal with.

      Everyone dies.

    19. I found Elizabeth Kubler-Ross’ “On Death and Dying” on “On Grief and Grieving” to be thought provocative and have had a lasting impact in my life. I have “Being Mortal” on my to read list, and have seen many positive reviews, but haven’t got to it yet.

  13. Does anyone else sometimes wake up dizzy and with the pressure “off” in your head, like you just landed on a flight? I’m assuming/hoping it’s just barometric pressure and sinuses…

      1. dehyrdation can do it too. drink lots of water and if its a recurrent problem maybe try adding those electrolite packets in to your day.

    3. This def happens during weird storm surges/barometric pressure extremes for me.
      Consider light lymphatic drainage massage around neck and head to clear your inner ears – youtube has some good ones.

  14. posted yesterday – recs for a walking pad, priorities are light/easy to move, quiet and has a handle bar

    2. I think Wardrobe Oxygen also did a walking pad review, but not sure if hers had a handle bar.

  15. I’ve never flown Spirit airlines, but I’ve heard some horror stories. Would it be too risky to do Spirit for a cross-country non-stop (I’m in DC, going to a wedding in Oregon)?

    1. If you’re flying in the day before the wedding it seems risky. If you’re arriving at least two days before the wedding, then it’s probably fine. But personally I don’t fly Spirit and the other budget airlines. I can afford better and am done making myself uncomfortable to save a few bucks.

    2. not sure what horror stories. the seats are very small and there are no services. I was on a spirit flight when a kid threw up and the flight attendant charged the mom for a bottle of water to clean her up. That said, if you go prepared (bring water, food, a soda if you want one, head phones) they can be cheaper. the one thing i will say for a flight that long is how large are you and how uncomfortable do you get when cramped? my son was in 4th grade when we took that spirit flight and even his knees were touching the seat ahead of us. the quarters are cramped.

    3. Do you need to be there? (Are you in the wedding?) If you have flexibility and don’t care whether you make it or not, go for it. If you need to be there, use a real airline. It’s a hot mess.

      1. (I can elaborate – I’ve tried them twice in the past 6 months and both times I had the flight fully cancelled within 2 hours of takeoff. The second was weather related, but the first was completely without explanation. I had to rebook on a whole different airline from the airport. There were no agents inside the TSA checkpoint at the airport and only one outside security. The one outside couldn’t help with rebooking. You got rebooked on a flight they chose 3 days later, or you got a refund. That was all they could do.)

      2. Was coming to say the same. They don’t seem to have partnership agreements with other airlines so if anything gets messed up in the chain of pilots and planes for then anywhere in the country, there is nothing they can/will do to help you. I know people who have had to wait 24-48 hours for next available Spirit flight.

    4. If your flight doesn’t make it on time, what recourse do you have? DOT regulations specify that you are entitled to a refund, but how hard will you have to work to get that refund from Spirit? Will they refund you only the cost of the DC to PDX flight (that was cancelled) and not the entire ticket, even though you would cancel the whole trip? What about getting a refund in your hotel and car rental?

      Philosophically: if I’m spending Real Money on something, I spend the extra to make sure I get the product/service I want. If it’s worth spending real money, it’s worth being done right. (There are times when this analysis means that I don’t buy anything or skip the event!) Throwing that out there.

    5. Thanks all! How do you feel about Alaska Airlines? That’s like a real airline, right? (Sorry for the ignorance, I’m a super east coast person)

      2. Alaska is Oneworld (affiliated with American, among other airlines) so a much better bet.

        1. Agree! And they have Beecher’s cheese on their in flight purchase cheese plate too!

          2. Beecher’s is just the Seattle version of Tillamook. No need to switch allegiances!

          3. I did a taste testing of grocery store strawberry ice cream a few years ago, and Tillamook beat the pants off the competition.

            Suck it, Hagen Dazs, Edy’s/Dreyers, and Breyers and store brand.

    6. I agree with the other commenters about the issues with budget airlines.

      In addition, the problem is not always the airline, but the other passengers. Budget airlines are disproportionately overrepresented in those videos you see online of passengers acting crazy.

        1. Ha. True. Back in the day of the full cattle call stampede that Southwest called “boarding” I was the very last person on the plane every single time. Cause I’m not acting like that.

  16. My relative who has dementia is beginning to make inappropriate online purchases, such as sketchy nutritional supplements from clearly scam websites. Does anyone have any ideas or leads on credit cards or set ups to prevent that sort of thing from happening? I’m not sure whether there is such a set up that would allow the person with power of attorney to approve purchases on a shared credit card, for example. We would like for her to continue to have access to a card for incidental purchases, but she has already opened herself up to identity theft at least two or three times and it is a huge hassle to cancel cards and get everything fixed.

    1. Try a prepaid, reloadable card with a relatively small balance, or a card with a very low credit limit.

    2. This is also the time to go through and just clear their web browser(s) of Credit Card information. I’m assuming incidental purchases are made in person.
      Also speaking from personal experience, I would avoid trying to switch her to cash only route. This turns into cash just going missing with no explanation.

    3. I know that for my Chase business credit card I can give people limits (my 12-yo has a $500 limit, not that he has a card but we’re trying to get his credit history started)…

    4. You might look into a Greenlight card. They’re intended for kids and they’ve worked really well with my kids, but I recently also set one up for my mom, who passed all of her finances over to me due to cognitive concerns. It’s essentially a prepaid card that you, as the “parent,” can add funds to through an app. You can also set limits on spending for certain categories and maybe even certain websites. And you can turn the card off and on through the app. Adding money through the app is pretty much instantaneous and I’ve been really pleased with how it works.

  17. did anyone else read about what happened at the home of the law school dean at Berkley? his wife is also a law professor. while perhaps their response should have been a bit calmer, I don’t care what you think about an issue, what those students did is completely inappropriate and rude. there is a time and a place and as law students you should know you don’t have first amendment rights at someone’s private home and i’d question the students’ judgment about professional issues as well.

    1. Yes. I found it completely inappropriate, but par for the course in Berkeley, which has a deep vein of antisemitism. I’m just glad I graduated before things got as bad as they are today, but I feel bad for local Jews and Jewish students and professors left on campus. They are consistently denigrated in a way that a civil society shouldn’t tolerate.

    2. My eyes rolled out of my head when she said her first amendment rights were denied. I can’t believe Berkeley Law is graduating people who don’t understand the basic principles of the first amendment.

      That said, I don’t think it was the right decision for them to get physical with her and I think it probably was assault.

      2. if the house was owned by the university (it was not in this case), would that change the analysis?

          1. Probably not — a lease (or even a license) to the tenant (even if conditioned on further employment as a dean), means that the landlord recedes from the frame of analysis.

        3. No. By that analysis, people in public housing would not have the same rights as owners and renters. Had to explain that one to the cops one time.

      3. Yeah, I went to a law school way, way below Berkeley in the rankings and even *I* understand the First Amendment.

        1. I know, right?

          And yet I bet none of these kids lose job offers (and some of them probably get a bonus).

          1. Yeah, they are somehow “just kids” for hiring purposes at big law firms.

      4. IDK what I’d do if this were my house, but I’d probably just call 911 and let the police sort them all out. Sad that it has to be this way, but you can’t reason with unreasonable people.

        1. The video I saw shows the wife putting her arm around the student’s shoulder and wrapping it toward her neck while pulling the microphone with her other hand. Looks like assault to me.

          It was a stunt, and I’m surprised the wife escalated it by getting physical.

          1. I think it was probably a mistake to touch anything other than the mike, but I don’t think it’s likely to qualify as “assault.” Lawyers here might know better than I do.

        2. There’s video where the wife has the student in a headlock. The student is an idiot who was behaving beyond inappropriately, but it’s definitely accurate to characterize it as “getting physical.”

          2. Yeah, but if you are a professor and the student attends your university it’s not very smart to physically wrestle with them even if they are trespassing. My husband is a prof and we would call the police in this situation. I can’t imagine him physically grabbing a student this way, unless someone’s life was in danger or they had a dangerous weapon. If someone was just saying rude things and refusing to leave our house there is no way he would lay hands on them. Although with him being male there would also be a sexual harassment component to it that isn’t present here…

    3. Yes. The best coverage is the article in The Forward (will put lower down). One of the articles said that the video on Twitter started after several minutes had passed during with the dean had been saying 20-30 times, “You are in my home, my home is not a public forum, please leave my home.”

      2. That’s a good reminder that we don’t always have the full context from a single short clip.

      4. I can’t believe the Instagram video circulating right now portrays it as “Berkeley professor assaults a hijabi on the last day of Ramadan.” Sure, that’s what happened. That encompasses the situation fully.

    4. The administration at Berkley (specifically including Chemerinsky) has coddled and encouraged extreme anti-social behavior and leftwing victimhood for years, decades even. Obviously what these students did was outrageous and should be grounds for expulsion, criminal charges, and if foreign nationals, deportation. But Chemerinsky and Fisk complaining about it is a little like complaining that an alligator bit you while feeding the alligator.

      1. It shouldn’t be though. I get that free speech is hard when you really loathe the speech. And that it seems to go one way (not sure what would happen if JK Rowling popped up at UCB or its law school). But I’ve lived in a country without it and much prefer it here. When there is no free speech, a lot of what is good in civil society goes away also.

        Do serious law firms hiring first years for legal work as lawyers even interview on campus? Or do they figure that they can meet the need without risking hiring people like these?

        1. Oh, they would definitely try to cancel her, but it’s pretty glorious because she is the definition of uncancelable.

        2. You don’t have a right to free speech in someone’s home. If someone asks you to leave and you will not, you are trespassing.

          1. I absolutely agree. “Free speech” is a right against the government. Granted UCB is a state school, but I can’t go into Governor Hochul’s house (presumably state-owned) or Gracie Mansion (home of NYC’s mayor) and start piping off on things. A social guest =/= making it a public forum (and in this case, asking people 20x-30x nicely to STFU and leave clearly revokes their permission to even be there).

          2. Right? Can you imagine if just being a state government employee means that you can’t ask disruptive people to leave your house? Next time (I think there are 2 more such dinners), I hope the Berkeley police just throw people in jail and charge them.

        3. They do interview on campus, which seems wilder and wilder to me the older I get and the more product I see from law firms.

    5. Thanks for posting. I texted some friends this morning and my reaction after reading the LA Times article and his statement was a combination of rage, devastation, and fear. (Hi, friends, if you read this blog!) I haven’t felt like this in awhile.I cannot believe it’s come to this in some ways, and yet – of course it was inevitable.

      1. The student behaved completely inappropriately. The better approach would have been to refuse to attend the dinner and to write an article about why the university should change its investment practices or shout that from a megaphone on campus or similar. And the offensive (but hardly ‘blood libel’) posters should have never been. That said, I don’t see how this student presented a threat that should leave you feeling “rage, devastation, and fear.” She did not physically threaten anyone; she made a political statement that you appear to disagree with and perhaps one you never thought you would have to hear, at least in this country, until recently. It is annoying that she refused to leave, and trespassing would have been an appropriate charge, but the physicality came from the professor (though I also understand her motivation and don’t think she was ‘violent’ either).

    6. I think the students were ridiculous to stage their protest at a private residence and even more to claim a right to do so. But I’m not surprised or shocked by it either — it just doesn’t strike me as any more or less silly than other protests that have been conducted by young people over decades. I don’t blame Chemerinsky and his wife one bit for being angry, but scuffling with the students over the microphone just gave them exactly what they wanted — they should’ve refused to engage and immediately called the police.

      1. +1 let the police handle it, don’t physically grapple with a student and escalate the situation.

  18. I am travelling to Japan in 4 weeks, and was wondering about the cellular network. Years ago, I remember international phones (Android and iPhone) did not work in Japan due to the different bandwidths.

    Did anyone travel there recently and can share experiences?

    FWIW, I have a work iPhone with US carrier SIM (AT&T) supporting 5G, and a personal older Android phone with 2 slots for SIM cards (2G/3G/4G), which I’ve used in Europe with a local SIM card in one slot and my US SIM card in the other.

    I will probably need my phone in Japan mostly for local data when out and about (Maps, websites) and not for calls, but wondering about public WiFi availability…

    1. I have T-Mobile Magenta which includes free data and texting in most foreign countries, and it worked fine for me in Japan. I don’t think you will have any issues doing what you normally do in Europe.

    2. I’m on google fi which has international data most everywhere and used that in Japan. It’s pretty seamless from the moment we landed at the airport. My friends who don’t have google fi bought a data sim upon arrival, or rented a wifi hotspot.

    3. You can almost always use a US cell phone in Japan now if you get a Japanese sim card – the years-ago issue you’re thinking of is probably CDMA vs GSM — basically two different ways of implementing “3G”. 4G and 5G are much more standardized internationally.

      Signing up for a month of Google Fi isn’t the optimal cheapest option but is so so convenient – you land; your phone magically works

    5. I have an iPhone with AT&T and used AT&T passport, where you get international data for $10 a day. It worked great. More expensive than a sim but extremely easy.

    1. Ours is part of our entry level espresso maker. Maybe you already have an espresso maker, or maybe you don’t drink espresso, but if you don’t have one and want one, I can report that it works great.

    4. I have the cheapest one from Amazon I’m sure and it’s a workhorse. I don’t know what the secret is, but I don’t see any need to spend more.

      Just to be clear, ours is the kind that it a plug-in pitcher with a lid and a blade at the bottom. Not that stick blender style.

    5. We have the Aeroccino 3 from Nespresso and like it a lot. It’s a little fussy to clean since you can’t submerge it, but it makes reliable foam when I’m feeling fancy.

    6. Small saucepan and whisk on the stove, or microwave in a glass measuring cup, then whisk. Nothing to break, no single-use appliance to take up space, however small.

  20. we have this one from amaz- and it’s been going strong since 2021:
    BASECENT Milk Frother Handheld Battery Operated, Coffee Frother for Milk Foaming, Latte/Cappuccino Frother Mini Frappe Mixer for Drink, Hot Chocolate, Stainless Steel Silver

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