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I never thought it would happen, but I’m officially a jumpsuit person. I’m always looking for the easiest way to throw together an outfit on hectic mornings, and jumpsuits are my new favorite way to do that.
Granted, I probably wouldn’t wear this to court or to a formal meeting, but I think it would look fantastic for an in-office day, paired with a white blazer and some loafers. (Has my brain been totally warped by the last 16 months? MAYBE, but I wore basically this exact outfit last week and no one batted an eye, so I think we’re all just leaning into a slightly more casual world now.)
The jumpsuit is $129 at Athleta and comes in regular sizes 0–26, tall sizes 0–16, and petite sizes 0–14.
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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Anonymous
Are jumpsuits really office-appropriate? To my eye they fall into the same category as maxi dresses—either too casual or too dressy depending on the fabric and style.
Cat
I have no idea what people are wearing to work since we are still WFH through the summer, but anything that requires me to get undressed to pee is not going to happen for the office. (Inconvenience aside, the gaps in our stall doors are irritatingly wide.)
Anonymous
Amen sister. This is why I have been slow to get on the jumpsuit train.
Go for it
Agree, maxi dresses are not for the office. At.all.
Hard nope on jumpsuits because of the epic level restroom hassle.
Anon
Agree on the bathroom issue generally but nit all jumpsuits are difficult. In my office, maxi dresses and jumpsuits are perfectly fine. We are very casual & on the west coast where “office appropriate” is something very different from the east coast perspective I think this board skews to. I also, gasp, wear printed tshirts, jeans and sneakers to work. Oh, and I’m a lawyer.
Anon
I think this is, yet again, one of those situations where people in more-conservative offices don’t see things the rest of us see. Maxi dresses/maxi skirts in the summer were a common sight in my previous office, as were jumpsuits. I personally totally concur about the getting-undressed-to-go-to-the-bathroom issue and don’t wear jumpsuits (ever) as a result, but I wouldn’t slap an “automatically inappropriate” label on them (or maxi dresses). Very much a know-your-office situation.
Anon
I’m 43, can I wear one? I’m tempted, but afraid I’d just look silly.
Maudie Atkinson
Yes! There are plenty of jumpsuits that don’t scream trendy jumpsuit. Pick a more sedate color way and fabric. You’ll look great!
Anon
Of course!
Vicky Austin
Do it!
lifer
Yes.
Take a look at the Banana Republic one. It’s really lovely.
Anon
I wouldn’t wear this particular jumpsuit, because the cropped ankles make it look like it fit me in my 20s and I’m still hanging on. I think 40+ requires a perfect, precise fit when it comes to jumpsuits.
Anon
I’ll never argue on fits correctly, but this ankle assessment is off. There’s nothing inherently youthful about ankles, except maybe in Victorian England. I’m well into my 40s and I would 100% wear this. I’d just style it in a more adult way that I style everything.
Anon
Not saying ankles are youthful…what a weird take. I meant that it looks like it shrank in the wash, or that my legs and butt got bigger which pulls the hem up higher.
Anon
Yeah, this particular one does look like it shrank in the wash. Not sure why.
Anon
“The cropped ankles make it look like it fit me in my 20s”
Anon
I’m 56 and have a jumpsuit. It’s a wide legged style, basically midi skirt length, and is a wrap on top. The bathroom thing is a hassle but it’s really comfortable the rest of the time and looks out together.
A.
OMG yes you can wear a jumpsuit at 43! Athleta has a ton of good ones; I’ve also had good luck at Old Navy and Target. I’m a 40 year old, apple shape, and you will pry my jumpsuits from my cold dead hands. I even wear them (gasp) to work.
Maudie Atkinson
In the right fabric and with the right sleeves and neckline, jumpsuits can absolutely be office-appropriate. I have two jumpsuits in suiting fabric I routinely wear to the office, at least when I went to the office, and one I have even worn to court with a jacket on top. Just like I would not throw a jacket over any dress and wear it to court, I wouldn’t throw a jacket over any jumpsuit and expect it to be court- or even office-appropriate. But I don’t think a person can say that jumpsuits are categorically not office wear.
Anon
Assuming one doesn’t have a court appearance-
My pre-pandemic office: casual but professional
My post-pandemic office: don’t wear pajamas or workout clothes
pugsnbourbon
In my office (higher ed admin), yes.
Anon
I’m a lawyer and I wear work-appropriate jumpsuits (i.e. not a spaghetti strap) to work on the reg and get compliments on them every time I wear them, so I think they’re perfectly fine for work.
anon
+1 One of my beloved jumpsuits died (RIP zipper) and it was one of my most flattering and comfortable work outfits. *cry*
pugsnbourbon
Zippers are replaceable! If you love it it’s worth seeing what a tailor can do.
anon
I know, but the jumpsuit itself was about $20, so it didn’t seem worth it at the time. Hindsight is 20/20!
anon
West Coast Big Law, and I would totally wear this to work if I could figure out the bathroom situation.
Anonymous
I worked from home pre-pandemic and will continue to do so this has been an ongoing problem. I’ve got stuck wearing older worn out clothes during the day and then change to pop out and do errands at lunch or go a walk and I’m fed up changing clothes and making more washing. I always have a barrier in my head though to the ‘nicer’ newer clothes in the drawer like T-shirt’s that I don’t want to wear around the house as they then wouldn’t be so nice and new for the weekend. I really want to just wear jeans/leggings and a tshirt all day. I can’t decide if the answer is just wear what I have and replace it when it’s worn or buy a few more things for a Monday – friday uniform? For some reason even though it’s been years I can never get my head into wearing ‘weekend’ clothes all week.
Cb
Wear what you have. By the time you’ll need a full roster of weekend clothes, you’ll want a few new pieces.
Cat
I have this same problem. I want to preserve my favorite or nicer pieces for when they really ‘count.’ But I have more such pieces than I do things that ‘count’… so have had some success reminding myself that it would be better not to wear the piece in the future because I literally wore it out, rather than not wearing it in the future because I have so many “nice” pieces waiting around for the right moment!
MagicUnicorn
This is my take, too. Wear it, wear it out, and then I can eventually replace it with something else just as fabulous. I have not found any benefit in avoiding particular clothing items because they are not yet worn out enough for tooling around.
pugsnbourbon
Ha, same. I bought a nice white t-shirt early last year and I still haven’t worn it. Gotta keep it fresh!
AZCPA
I felt like this too for a while. Definitely wear the things you have and like – you’ll feel better in clothes you enjoy wearing even if nobody sees them other than you. I ended up hiding the older less nice stuff (out of sight, out of mind) and then realized I didn’t need it – I had plenty of nice workout clothes for actual workouts, and more of what I formerly thought of as weekend clothes than I’d realized. So out the older stuff went.
Anon
Why not wear what you are wearing around the house for errands? That’s what I do, and I have not gotten any side eye for wearing t-shirts with a few small holes or discolored armpits at the supermarket. Especially when most of the year I throw on a jacket on top of it!
Panda Bear
My (similar) problem is that I roll out of bed and just start working without ever changing from my pajamas/lounge clothes that I slept in. Then, like OP, when I need to go outside or want to take a walk, I’m paralyzed trying to decide if I should change into ‘real clothes; or just say f it and go out in my sleeping clothes. I need to get into the habit of actually getting dressed again. I feel a bit pathetic!
Anon
Yes, don’t wear your sleeping clothes in public.
Anonymous
I’ve bought some nicer sweatshirts lately which are becoming my WFH uniform with whatever pants make sense for the day (shorts, leggings, jeans, etc.). I love the Athleta Sundown. I also have a Patagonia, a Lou & Grey, and a really soft one from a random shop from my last weekend away. I wear them over a t-shirt, and if I run out on an errand when it is peak summer, I just leave the sweatshirt behind (but not always, I run cold).
Anonymous
Wear and enjoy what you have while it’s still in style and you still like it.
Go for it
Let go of the old worn out stuff! Bleah.
Wear your nicer things….replace when needed.
Anon
Why can’t you wear older t-shirts for running errands? Otherwise, I would wear nicer clothes for WFH. I often wear a nice top for WFH with leggings on the bottom.
anon
This reminds me of when my husband and I were first dating. He replaced an old pair of jeans with a new pair that cost around $100. He put on the new pair and immediately went out to do dirty yard work. I couldn’t believe it! That’s when I introduced him to the idea of saving nice/new clothes and holding on to the old pair for dirty work. Although, part of me thought it was really refreshing to just wear clothes and go live your life without overthinking anything.
Anonymous
+1. I overthink things like that too and it’s such a brain drain.
Anonymous
Yard work and WFH are not remotely similar. Clothes get wrecked doing yard work.
Anonymous
OP here, thanks to everyone so far! I could wear the old tops out and tbh do sometimes do that and swap the bottoms for leggings or jeans. I guess I don’t feel good in them and I think I would probably feel better wearing nicer things more often! I love working from home but I do feel a bit of a slob sometimes and with some extra covid weight I think wearing my nicer stuff will make me feel a bit better.
Anon
Wear what you have. Don’t save “nice” for someday – someday is now.
The beauty writer Sali Hughes talks about being gifted a lovely assortment of La Mer face products and putting them away because they were so nice. When she moved houses she went to pack the items and found that they’d gone bad.
Use your nice stuff now. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
Senior Attorney
I am forcing myself to wear my “nice” tees and shorts (and even cute casual skirts and tops) on the weekend and after work and it turns out it lifts my spirits to wear clothes I like and that look good all the time, instead of only when I’m leaving the house. Plus I don’t want my husband to think I’m frumpy for him and snazzy for the outside world.
Anonymous
when I was WFH I wore my more stretchy/comfy work clothes because it helped me to be in a work mindset. Agree with the recommendation to wear nice stuff at home not just out.
Vacation ideas
Hi! I’m looking for help finding a summer getaway that’s within reasonable driving distance of Virginia, which to me is preferably less than 7 hours or so. I would like it to be not as hot as Virginia so that probably means heading north or west. The main things I’m looking for are luxury accommodations that will allow a large dog (can be hotel or home rental), delicious casual food options, and outdoor activities that can include our dog (lake, trails, beach). Any ideas? Nantucket is what I have in mind, but it’s quite a bit further than I think is doable.
Anon in Arlington
Maybe Nemacolin? Not sure it’s dog friendly. Following with interest!
Katie
Upstate NY? Lake George is probably right around 7ish hours from Northern Virginia.
Anonymous
That is true in theory, but there is huge traffic potential almost the entire route, so I would allow longer. That’s the problem with almost anywhere north of VA until you get well past NYC. I would look more west/northwest.
Anon
I have cringy memories from my youth of cheesy resorts with heart-shaped tubs in the Poconos, but friends have enjoyed vacationing there in VRBOs throughout the past 5ish years and I’d definitely consider it b/c it is so easy to get to vs other places. It isn’t Maine levels of cool, but it’s not so hot and swampy, either, and cools down a lot at night. Grey Towers is awesome to visit. I think it was a childhood home of one of JFK’s mistresses.
BeenThatGuy
+1 to Lake George. Stay in the Bolton Landing area. It’s beautiful.
Anon
Go up in altitude — VA mountains or WVA or NC. Greenbrier, High Hampton, The Homestead, Old Edwards, Grove Park. Not sure how dog friendly the resorts are, but you often don’t have to stay there to dine or book spa appointments. Greenbrier has houses that are privately owned — not sure if the owners rent those out (or if you’d even want something with 7 bedrooms).
Anon
Asheville?
Anon
Or what about that Blackberry Farm people are always raving about – https://www.blackberryfarm.com/
Cat
I think BB Farm is booked into 2022 at this point, FYI
Anon
High Hampton is its sister property in NC. It is new this year and has some openings. Not sure if dog friendly — hoping to go in early fall.
Blackberry
Blackberry is a dream. You can bring your pup, but you will need to book an accommodation that does not share a wall, so a stand-alone house/cottage, which jumps you up in price.
And they’re fairly booked up, but still had some availability for Christmas time and later this year.
Blackberry Mountain is very similar, but more outdoorsy, though not sure on dog policies.
Anon
I was in Asheville in May and couldn’t believe how crowded it was. I wasn’t really a fan. It also doesn’t have much outdoorsy stuff to do without getting in your car and driving. I would just pick a random mountain town in NC that has better access to hikes/lakes and fewer crowds. The dog doesn’t care about hipster breweries ;)
Anonymous
I love some aspects of Asheville but agree. Maybe Blowing Rock, Waynesville, Highlands, or Cherokee.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t do Cherokee as it’s a gateway to GSMNP and can get busy. Blowing Rock would probably be a good option.
NYCer
Old Edwards Inn in Highlands, NC is beautiful. It is in the mountains, so it should be cooler than VA. Depending on where you are coming from in VA, it might be longer than a 7h drive though.
NYCer
I am not sure if it is dog friendly though!
Anon
Great Lakes area – Ashtabula OH?
Sunshine71
Maybe check out Bedford Springs? Not sure of the pet policy but the resort is gorgeous.
editrix
Loved our stay at Bedford Springs. From the website: Pets are not only welcomed, but also pampered at the Omni Bedford Springs Resort. Our expert chefs have created a special menu for your pet with delectable selections no animal can resist. For details on the menu offered as well as your pet’s stay please see below. A non-refundable cleaning fee of $150 ($175 for pets over 50 lbs) will be charged per stay. Pet friendly rooms are only available in the Anderson House. Luxury spa rooms or suites are not pet friendly.
Anon
Has anyone ever traveled with Intrepid Travel? What kind of vibe did the trips have? What were your fellow travelers like? And which level of comfort did you choose? Especially curious about the Eastern Europe and Central America tours.
Travel!
Yes, I’ve done about ~10 tours each with Intrepid Travel and G Adventures (very similar company) all over the world. The travelers are different depending on the type of tour you do – for example, if you do one of their higher end tours, you’re likely to get an older crowd, as opposed to a Basix tour, which might have a younger crowd. I usually travel solo, so before booking a trip I call the company and find out how many other travelers are on the trip, the general age range, how many couples vs. solos, etc. I was once trying to decide between two trips to India and called and found out one trip had like 6 couples all over 50 and the other trip was a mix of all ages and was mostly solo travelers (but I had to drop down a class in comfort to get the more fun group). So definitely call first before booking.
As far as the level of comfort, it really depends on you and what you’re looking for. My first few trips with Intrepid were camping trips in Africa, which is obviously a lot different than when I did a high-end trip to Antarctica. You also need to factor in pace – some of the more “comfortable” tours go at a slower pace, which might be fine for you depending on where you go (like Europe might be fine slow), but I got a little antsy going slow through, for example, Borneo, since there wasn’t a ton I wanted to do on my own in each place. Central America might be the same. I’ve been kind of everywhere with them, so feel free to ask more questions!
Anon
Thank you so much! This is exactly the kind of info I wanted to hear. Love hearing that you could call them and find out about the group demographic before booking.
I’m in my early 40s and have never done group travel–honestly always felt so against it! I’ve been a snob about wanting to plan things myself… but realistically, it feels like the right fit for some of the trips I want to take. I could travel solo, but I prefer having people to interact with. And while I have friends I can travel well with, we are increasingly wanting different things out of our trips or have already been to the places I want to visit.
Definitely prefer local food and local guides, so I love hearing that they prioritize both!
Thanks again to you both!
PistachioLemon
+1 to everything Travel! said
I have done a similar # of trips with Intrepid – mostly in SE Asia, India, and the Middle East, but I’ve also found their guides to be great. A mix of local/not with generally very good knowledge of the area and at least some language skills (or lots of if they are local!). They are also typically try to go out of their way to help you try local food, etc if that is your thing.
Anon
Thank you! This all sounds great. Appreciate the info!
Anonforthis
Any suggestions for working with attorneys with poor time management skills? I’m fairly new to this place but there’s a clear pattern on my team of last-minute rushing, like blowing through internal deadlines and filing at almost midnight on the filing date. I’m junior so I typically do the initial draft but then a senior attorney wants to review and file, and they wait til the very last minute. Is this just how most litigators are, though?
Anon
I think we need a bit more info. Does this have an impact on you e.g. are you expected to turn comments and be involved in the filing? Do you have an understanding of what else the attorneys have on their plate e.g. other cases, family life.
I wouldn’t assume someone has poor time management just because they’re working late (maybe they spend time with their kids and then log back on) or cutting things close to the wire. As long as deadlines are reliably met then, yes, I’d assume this is just how it works and you’re going to look out of touch complaining. If it’s directly impacting you then I think you have more grounds for complaint and should look for resources about managing up.
OP
Thanks all, for the responses. It impacts me in a few ways, including being expected to be on call and having my name on filings that have errors or are filed out of time. They do have family and other case obligations, but I also have personal knowledge that some of them are choosing to work on other nonurgent matters or do personal stuff during the day. Also not biglaw so I’m not really getting compensated for this. But I am accepting that it’s possible I’m just not cut out for the stress of litigation.
Anonymous
Gently, I think you either need to get over it or find another job. You’re new, you’re junior, you’re accusing senior attorneys of poor time management, and you’re complaining about your working hours. That doesn’t sit well at any law firm, biglaw or otherwise.
anon
+1 this is part of being junior. You also are not really in a position to comment on how senior members are managing their time or whether their “non-urgent matters” are actually non-urgent. Even if they aren’t urgent they may be more important than what you are working on so they take priority even if there isn’t an immediate deadline.
Anonymous
Commiseration. I’m a high performer at my job and I can knock out an top-notch brief pretty quickly, but waiting around for my supervisor to review, introduce grammatical errors, and generally add no value is reallllyyyyy annoying.
Anon
When you say filed out of time, are they actually missing court deadlines?
Anon
By errors, are we talking citing the dissent or a typo or something?
What do you mean by filing out of time? Are they actually missing court deadlines?
Anonanonanon
I’m with you. And I hate this idea of you just have to suck it up. I work with some wonderful, extremely busy partners who do not do this. It can be done.
Anonymous
IME, most litigators are like this. But it isn’t necessarily poor time management. It is just becuase they are so busy and some litgation turnarounds are so short. It’s not because they don’t know how to manage their time. I’d give them a little more benefit of the doubt. But it is still really frustrating and why I rarely work on litigation if I can help it.
AFT
Agree with this – I don’t know that I’d restrict it to litigation, though. When I worked at firms, corporate attorneys and specialists did this a lot too – often due to other demands on their time that associates may not be aware of.
For some firms/some partners, it’s kind of a price-of-admission that there will be a rush to the finish ALWAYS – the defining characteristic is how they treat OP when they hand the draft to OP at 11:30 pm with edits and it gets filed at midnight with typos. I sadly know some partners who would hold the inability to bend time and space to do hours of work in that time against the associate…
OP, you can decide this is not your style and try to move away, but I found some ability to manage up among my partners who were last minute people… or to work around them once I better understood how things were likely to shake out. If they are late-and-blame-the-associate partners, then you need out ASAP.
Anonymous
Those senior attorneys you are accusing if poor time management probably spent the day in court or in deposition and only got to your filing at 5 or so. 7 if they had dinner with the kids.
No Face
If you are junior, this is out of your control. Every supervising attorney has issues, and you are not going to change them. If you are working with an attorney who always files things at the last minute, just expect that to happen and plan accordingly. If the motion is due on Thursday at midnight, know that you will be finalizing that motion and filing on Thursday between 10pm-midnight. Then sleep in on Friday, or leave work early on Friday, or both!
I will say that if you are very junior, it can be difficult to gauge whether a senior attorney has time management issues. It may seem like the attorney is just not reviewing your draft, when in reality that attorney is working on issues that are far more important than that motion. In that case, the attorney is properly managing his or her time. Or the team is just understaffed, so everyone is a step behind on all the work.
Some people are just a mess though. I worked with an attorney like that, after a while I avoided being entered on his cases. I was thankful my name was not associated with his work with the sanctions started rolling in.
No Face
Just to add: this is one of the reasons why I appreciate being more senior. If I am in charge of the brief from start to finish, I can draft, proof, and file in a timely manner.
AFT
Cosign all this as a former senior associate who worked under a chronically last-minute partner.
filing is the worst
In my experience – yes. In my office, this is a common occurrence from certain partners, and trust me when I say it is not your place to say what they should prioritize and not in a given day. It can seem disrespectful of your work and time – but at least in my office, that’s just the hierarchy to some extent. I’ve chalked it up to the price of admission of working with otherwise awesome attorneys.
Strategies for avoiding this last-minute rush are frequent communications and check-ins re deadlines and making sure you have everything ready to go for filing. I also try to block off filing day and don’t plan on getting anything else done that day. Is that how I want to spend my time? No, but it’s how things are done. I keep telling myself that if/when I become partner, I will not do this.
Becca
I’ve been an associate both at a Big Law firm in Chicago and a big (for Michigan) firm in Detroit. I’ve experienced this kind of thing many times at both firms, and unless you’re really being abused I don’t think there’s much you can do about it. One of the perks of being senior is getting to set the timeline.
Patricia Gardiner
LOL at this. My junior people probably think I have poor time management because I don’t drop everything to work on their projects as soon as they send them to me, and because I can’t accommodate them wanting to change set meeting times at the last minute.
anon
Haha same. Shockingly I’m working on many more important things than your project that I’m not going to set aside immediately to avoid you having to hang around for a filing.
Anonymous
You can keep doing that, but you’re going to lose good people. Consider whether your sign-off is truly needed. You can boost morale a ton by leaving your trusted team to get the work done without you hovering for the last-minute additions.
Anon
I thought this “the bosses must cater to the entry level” level of entitlement had died off with the Millenials finally growing up.
Anon
Ok, boomer.
Anon
Xer but thanks
Anonymous
Nah, millennials just aren’t willing to put up with as much BS as previous generations. All the faux emergencies and busy facades are transparent and annoying and we can move on to get away from them.
Anon
Honey, law schools are churning out a never-ending supply of juniors for law firms. You are fungible. That’s the truth. People here who are senior to you are trying to tell you how it is but you’re continuing to insist that you’re special. You’re not.
anon
I agree with anon at 2:42. I totally used to feel this way as a junior, now that I’m senior enough to see how things work, I understand that it works the way Anon at 2:42 said. Once you get some more experience the answer may change but relatively junior people really are fungible in the eye of firms regardless of how good they are
anonymous
Wait, are the juniors working on *their* projects, or *yours*? Because if the associates are working on *their* projects, I can’t see why they’d be sending them to you.
anon
they are my projects but they often assume (incorrectly) that their project is the most important because it’s the only one that they are working on. Not all associates are this way but many fail to see the bigger picture. I have never ever missed or even come close to missing a timeline but no I’m not going to re-arrange my schedule and calls with clients (you know, who pay bills that pay associate salaries) on “non-urgent’ matters so that associates don’t have to ever work in the evenings.
anonymous
You don’t need to get snarky with me—-I never suggested you rearrange your schedule to prioritize an associate’s evening or any other reason. I work for a partner who is notoriously bad at time management (and have excelled under him despite this) because he’s busy but also because that’s just his way. I too think OP needs to learn to live with it, but it’s troubling to hear partners be so dismissive of associates who are probably more worried about doing a good job for the client than they are whether they get home in time to go to yoga class. Just don’t forget who your associates are working for… they’re not writing an MSJ because they’re bored.
Anon
You can certainly raise that you are concerned that filings are being made out of time or with errors, and ask the senior person if there is anything you can do differently to prevent that from happening again. You can also say you aren’t comfortable having your name on the filings. It’s likely this won’t be received well or cause a dramatic change so if you can’t navigate yourself to working with other people in the firm and you are not comfortable, then you need to look for another job.
Anon
It’s hard to know the reason people work last minute but if it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t have to be that way. There are senior lawyers in my group who are super last minute and others who like filings done before dinner so they can focus on being with their family. Guess who associates prefer to work with? Sometimes a crunch is unavoidable but usually it’s because people are taking on too much or poor managers.
Anon
I think it depends on how busy the group is and the overall culture, but I do think this is fairly common in litigation. I really hate fire drills and feel the same way you do. I eventually switched to government (and a non-litigation role) which is better suited to my personality.
Anonymous
IANAL, but am senior. It could be poor time management, but it could also be understaffing or most likely other factors such as dependencies you are unaware of.
Anon
There’s some weird flex here that a junior person couldn’t possibly understand if a senior person is a good manager or manages their time well. Just because someone is a _junior lawyer_ that doesn’t mean the person doesn’t have judgment or hasn’t worked before law school. I think it’s offensive to say, “Oh, she’s 26, she can’t possibly grasp what is really happening.” No–like–she probably can see the fire drills and the panic and the errors in the filings–those are all objective. And if you weren’t getting paid anywhere near six figures for that, I could see 100% why that would be difficult to deal with repeatedly at 11:30pm on Tuesdays.
Sympathy, OP. I would try to work with others in your organization, to the extent possible, and if you are really tied to these fire-drill-y types, after trying to talk it through and giving it some patience, I would consider lateralling. Not all law needs to be this way. Working with last-minute-types can be very frustrating if you are organized yourself.
anon
Meh. I think a lot of people just remember being junior and thinking they had a better grasp on priorities/workload of senior people and realizing now that they are senior that they didn’t have the full picture as a junior.
I think people are also asking for more information because this could be a pretty typical thing that happens or it could be that the OP is working for disorganized and unreasonable people, but without more information it’s hard to know.
Full time flex
I am returning to the office this fall (no WFH option has been announced). I work in-house and have 2 elementary aged daughters. I am thinking of asking my boss for full time flex so that I can leave early to pick them up from school. Any advice or talking points to help make my case? I guess the most compelling reason is that I have kept up with my usual workload which has been busy at times while also being able to pick them up from school this past year. What is holding me back is that if my boss says no, I don’t know if they will pay more attention to my comings and going’s. Before the pandemic, I just left early at times when I needed to for special occasions and didn’t get permission (although what I would be asking for now would be for every day).
Anon
What time would you be leaving at? IMO it makes a difference if your kids get out of school at 2:30 vs 4. FWIW, my kids’ school got out at 3:15, which is just too early to leave (and having them is too distracting for working). They went to after-school care or activities at their school so that I could leave work at 4:30 and pick them up by 5, which is not really noticeable and had me out in front of rush-hour traffic (where it would have taken 3x as long).
Anon
FWIW, I never asked. A lot of coworkers hit the gym around 4, so it was a low-need time to be gone and off e-mail for a bit.
Anonanonanon2
Seconding, I think this low-key approach is the best. For men OR women, not just a “mommy-track” thing! Plus, having after-school care is necessary IMO, you will inevitably be asked to stay past your normal “out” at least once, and knowing there is a backup in place takes so much stress off the situation.
Anon
Continuing to reply to my comments — I paid for after-school care that I could use until 6 and often had to rely on (I used to travel for work or trade off with my husband, who comes from the other direction). Sometimes we’d have a sitter pick up. But getting them the minute school was out just was too early for us.
Now my kids are in middle school and the start time is later and they take the bus, getting home a little before 5. They have phones and I feel OK if they are home alone for a bit. They also have to walk the dog if they are the first home in the evening.
Seventh Sister
My eldest is in middle school and to my surprise, she LOVED being on her own after school. I did hire a college kid to drive her to ballet a few days a week, though I’m hoping she can start taking the metro within the next year or so. It’s been fine. What I’ve learned is that she will call me immediately if there is some kind of problem, but we had to train her to answer her phone or texts from us.
I am on pins and needles waiting for an announcement from our school district about whether they will have after-care this next school year. They were very slow to reopen, and have taken an extremely conservative position on the number of spaces they can offer under current guidelines. Given the summer camp schedule (same office runs summer day camp), I suspect that the hours next year will be super-limited. I don’t “need” after-care the way that I would if my youngest was in K, but it would be preferable to going full latchkey.
anon a mouse
Is the plan that you would just be out for an hour or so each day but then log back on at home? Or that you would come in early and leave early? I think it’s a reasonable ask in light of the circumstances, but you know your office best, especially if you can still get your work done.
You have to think about what you would do if the answer is no, though. Would you do it anyway? Ask to go part-time or leave? Hire someone to do pickup?
Anonanonanon2
I think getting work done while WFH and picking kids up (presumably from a school very close to your house) and leaving the office in time to get to the school, get in the car line, get kids home, etc. are two different things, depending on how far your office is. One is popping out quickly to pick them up, the other is packing up all of your work, commuting, then unloading all of your work stuff to get started again. Just something to keep in mind.
Fwiw this is not a risk I’d take, but it’s a “know your workplace” situation for sure. I don’t know any parents who work full-time in an office and pick their kids up from school every day. You might be better off having an after school sitter or using after school care and popping out at 4:30 to grab them, beating rush hour and still being home in time to have some evening time or make evening activities, as someone else suggested.
In terms of talking points, if you are in an office where other people have children and do not pick them up themselves, I think “but my kids have to be picked up” will be tone-deaf. I have heard many iterations of “who does so-and-so think they are, we all have kids in school!” over the years when someone makes that case, barring extenuating circumstances.
Anon
In my office, the SAHMs deal with the kids, vs two working couples.
Anon
This is very unhelpful…especially since most two parent homes have two working parents.
Anon
But if your boss has a SAHW, he may not get your struggle. If your boss is either half of a working couple, you may need to do what your boss does (or ask around: what do people do? Are you the only working mom???).
anne-on
This. We had to go to an au pair when my kiddo hit school age because I could not ‘just pop out’ daily to pick up my kid at 3 (which doesn’t factor in driving there/back, the pick up line, the inevitable requests for snacks/conversations/etc.). Most dual working parent couples I know either have regular after care + bus, or a nanny/sitter/au pair who covers pick ups.
That being said, I would certainly try to negotiate for 1-2 days a week of WFH so you can see them in the afternoons/avoid a commute those days. I think it’s just incredibly tone deaf when a company won’t even consider it for employees who demonstrated good productivity during the pandemic.
Anon
Don’t ask and get another job. It’s insane to measure the value of a lawyer based on the time you spend in your chair. So if that’s your boss’ attitude, you’re in a bad workplace. And if it’s not and you’re projecting, don’t ask just do your work. I manage a huge team and do not care about the kind of schedule you’re describing. Do what you need to do, permission seeking is unnecessary.
Anonymous
It’s not insane to ask anyone to work a standard 9-5 or 8-4 schedule. I actually think it’s a lot healthier than asking people to work through dinner/late nights/evenings/ early mornings so that they can do family stuff for several hours in the middle of the afternoon. I’m in favor of OP doing whatever works for her family but the standard 9-5 is not “insane” and it actually worked a lot better for my mental health than then”flexibly” of being constantly available to do work outside of regular business hours. I’d rather have someone else pick up my kids and not be logged on while they’re eating dinner or after they go to bed. I know this board loves “flexibility” but the idea that everyone is actually more productive doing their jobs and simultaneously running carpools and and cooking dinner and watching tv with their spouse is just not consistent with my experience. In short, I’m glad some workplaces are offering this but it’s not “insane” for an employer to take a different view.
Anon
Then you go right ahead and work 9-5 if that works for you. The point of flexibility is that a standard schedule doesn’t work for a lot of people and managing to outcomes rather than time in chair leads to a better work experience for everyone. If you get your work done in a standard schedule that’s great, but recognize it doesn’t work for everyone.
anon
Thank you for saying this, because this is my experience, too. Doing family stuff in the middle of the workday kills my productivity; I just don’t handle this type of switching very well. After-care — then REALLY being all-in and available — is much better for my own mental health.
Anon
She doesn’t even say any of that, you’re jumping to a lot of conclusions about her workplace.
Anon
so my mom was not a lawyer but worked in marketing. this was years ago and arranged before she took the job, but she got to work earlier than most of her colleagues (my dad took us to school) and would leave at 3, four days a week to pick us up, and one day she stayed until 5:30/6. she didn’t really have the type of job where she had to log on again once getting home
Anon
Also, talk to your kids’ friends’ parents at the school. What do they do? If the kids may be doing soccer or things that meet after school, you may not need to be there as soon as you think. Ditto if there is after school care. A lot of moms who pick up at school (at my kids’ school) do it to socialize and they hang out on benches while their kids play on the playground. If you need to get home to log back in, your kid may not understand not being able to play with their friends. Also, if your kids can take the bus home (vs you driving), that may save you some time if you can just go straight home from work.
A.
I have a super flexible job but feel your pain on this, because even when I’m able to get my kids around 3:45 or 4, it’s always a rush at the end of the day and hard for me to “restart” back at the house when we get home and settled. I do think the answer here differs on your office culture and the time they get out of school — 2:30 is different from 4:30. For me, it’s worth it to have someone to do backup childcare — either see if they can ride the bus home, have another family pick them up, hire a sitter, whatever…but anything that can buy you some more time at the end of the day is a good thing both for your sanity/calm and in case there’s a fire drill at work. If you ask for different hours I’d request a come early/leave early type of deal (so, get in an hour early and leave an hour early). You could also see if you and spouse (if you have one) could split the time, or you could try to leave early Tues/Thurs, spouse does Mon/Fri, and you have some sort of stopgap for Wednesdays. I don’t think it needs to be all or nothing, but I work in an extremely flexible culture (and am a proponent of such) and would still raise an eyebrow at this arrangement if it were every day.
OP
OP here – just wanted to say thanks to all for responding! Definitely a lot of good points to consider and I appreciate them all!!
Becca
HELP! I have an interview with a law firm coming up (I’m an attorney) and I need a plus size petite suit. Where should I look?
Anon
Talbots
Anon
Talbots?
Anonymous
Check yesterday’s post. Talbots has petite plus options and I identified a jacket that I thought looked interview appropriate, but also interesting.
Panda Bear
I just came here to follow up on your comment from yesterday – and again, Talbots!
Cat
I commented Talbots on your post from yesterday so … yes start there.
Anonymous
We’ll, glad to see the commentariat in agreement :)
Anon
But also, it’s so sad that there’s one store for plus petite suits. (signed, another plus petite)
Anon
I was thinking the same thing. We are in agreement b/c there is no other place chasing this market.
Panda Bear
+1
Becca
Thanks everyone! I actually already looked at Talbots, but they only have pant suits, and I much prefer a skirt or dress suit.
Anon
MMLF?
Panda Bear
Oh rats. Can you do a petite plus jacket, and regular plus skirt (hemmed)? That’s what I generally do, since I prefer skirts a little on the longer side anyway. Regular dresses are harder given the armhole/neckline/waist placement, but I can usually get away with either size range skirt.
Senior Attorney
Have you tried Macy’s? I seem to remember them having some petite plus sizes back in the day.
Anon
I agree. I think they had basic Jones Née York suits in a bunch of sizes.
Anon
I like that autocorrect decided that Jones is a lady who took her husband’s last name, but used to be named York.
Anonymous
Did you check online? Talbots has a much bigger suiting selection online than in the stores, at least where I live.
Solo 5K
Reporting back to share that thanks to your encouragement the other day, I have signed up for a 5k in a few weeks. I am nervous and excited but looking forward to celebrating this accomplishment!
Anon
Yay! Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Kath
Good for you! Your post has inspired me…I’m thinking of doing the same thing. I’ve started Couch to 5k this week but haven’t quite pulled the trigger on registering for one in early October.
Anon
Do it! Having a race makes it a lot easier to stick to a training plan when life, frustration, or summer heat get in the way.
Solo 5K
Good luck with the training. I really liked it and it feels like such a nice little accomplishment in my life right now. We are here to cheer you on!
anon
Wooo!! You got this *virtual fist bump*
Anonymous
Yay! Report back after!!
Anonymous
As a short legged, curvy woman I’m definitely in favor of a good jumpsuit. They make me look put together and I find them slimming and flattering. They’re also more comfy than a dress and skinnies when it’s hot. Given today’s post, I’d love your recommendations! Only caveats – need to have wide enough straps for a bra and not super low cut/gaping wrap front.
lifer
Banana republic. Very flattering. If sleeveless works for you.
Anon
Which one? People keep mentioning this BR jumpsuit, but none on the website look particularly flattering to me even on the models.
Anonymous
Those BR ones look dumpy to me. Like for a person who has given up.
anonymous
I think I’ve seen some posts on Wardrobe Oxygen with jumpsuit reccomendations.
Anon
Back in my curvy cut skinny cords (cold snap) with a hint of stretch. Heaven compared to rigid high-waisted suffocating mom jeans.
Anonymous
You know it’s ok to just wear clothes you like and skip trends you don’t I stead of constantly fretting about this right?
Anonymous
+1. It seems like we’ve seen this post every single day for the past two weeks.
Anon
I feel like I could write it — the new-style jeans that seemed OK in the fitting room are not holding up in field trials. It’s like a C-, not a complete fail. I own too many pants now and once I settle on a size will downsize the ones that I’m not reaching for or able to fit in. Why do I feel like my pants holdings are never settled and always in flux?
Anon
That’s why many of us find pants we like and that fit us, buy several pairs, and just wear those until they wear out. IDGAF any more what teenagers think is cool or what some magazine editor thinks I should wear; I am going to wear what works for me. I promise you, no one pays attention to your clothing the way you do. Remember the experiment where the woman wore the same dress with different accessories for over a year, and no one noticed? Very honestly, if someone is over 35 and wearing mom jeans and crop tops, it just looks try-hard; they’re not fooling anyone even if their body is similar to that of a teenager’s. 35-year-olds don’t look like teenagers no matter how hard they try or how unwrinkled their faces are. Let’s leave some things to the actual kids and let them have fun with it.
Anonymous
If they don’t work, return them. It just doesn’t matter this much.
No Face
Does your body hate pants? My body hates pants. Dresses 4lyfe!
Anon
My body hates pants and yet also hates the chub rub from dresses/skirts. So if it’s not tights season, I am in trouble. I am currently in trouble.
No Face
To Anon @ 11:02:
Get Jockey slip shorts! I just bought some new ones from Target, and they make cooling and wicking versions! Very comfortable, especially if you size up.
Anon
Slip shorts wearers — why do they come down so long??? Most dresses are over the knee and I worry that the ship shorts will show. If I fold them over, they seem to be noticeable. Is there nothing that just goes to mid/high thigh? I don’t need something as long as bike shorts. Just long enough to not roll up.
No Face
To Anon @ 11:45
I don’t care if my slip shorts peek out from time to time, personally. Instead of folding, try scrunching at the top of your leg if that bothers you.
NYC
Re: anon at 10:37 crop tops and mom jeans on a 35 year old do NOT look try hard in all situations. I’m sure you’ve seen many 35 years old pulling it off and didn’t realize
Anon
“Re: anon at 10:37 crop tops and mom jeans on a 35 year old do NOT look try hard in all situations. I’m sure you’ve seen many 35 years old pulling it off and didn’t realize”
Okay. Sure. Sorry you felt personally attacked by what I said.
Anon
Isn’t this ostensibly a “fashion blog” though? I’m a reader from the start so I totally get the comments are the point, but it’s fine if people want to comment on trends and embrace them.
Anon
Yes! Thank you. I’m so sick of the sneering “why do you care so much about fashion” comments on a fashion blog. If you feel that way about fashion, then why are you here?
Anon
Sure, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that you have to try trends you know you won’t like.
Anonymous
Or post the same question daily.
Anon
“I tried a trend and found it uncomfortable” is the essence of a fashion blog. Telling the poster to go back in time and not purchase it is just stupid and mean.
Anon
Awesome!
I will not be back in cords, jeans or anything adjacent to them until late September, maybe.
Commuting shoes
Now that I’m back to walking to the office, it’s clear I need new commuting shoes. Would love any recs. Looking for slip ons, supportive if that’s an option, and something that doesn’t scream athleisure. Preferably black and leather or canvas, so I can wear them to dinner after work without going full on Working Girl.
Anon
Check out Cole Haan
Anon
This sounds crazy but I have a pair of Nurse Mates black leather slip ons from Zappos that I love. I got them when I was pregnant with twins and needed all of the support. They look similar, but feel better, than my similar Eccos.
Anon
Rockport
Anon
How about clogs? Like a basic pair of dansko clogs, the kind that is a whole shoe and is not backless. The rocker sole is good for your feet.
Anonymous
I think Vionics might be too athleisure, but take a look.
Anon
How hard is it to move in-house as a non-US citizen? I have sent off a dozen in-house applications, but almost all of them have a page asking you to answer if you would require green card sponsorship. I’m about 7 years out and have top credentials. Other friends who have gone through this process but who are Americans seem to get at least a screening call.
Anonymous
I would imagine almost impossible. The credentials don’t matter – in order to sponsor you they will have to justify that there is no qualified American candidate. That doesn’t mean you are the best candidate, but that there is no American that is qualified. Almost impossible to do for an in house spot, unless it’s something like a very niche patent position or something
Anon
This, exactly.
Anon
This seems right to me. FWIW, I’m American with top credentials and still not even getting screening interviews – so it seems to me it’s pretty rough out there.
Anon
Do you have a green card? IMO it matters if you are already legally authorized to work here (so that is a broader group than just green-card holders) vs if the company would have to do work on their part to hire you.
Anon
For us (extremely large bank), it’s irrelevant. I’m not sure HR would even tell me if a candidate needed sponsorship.
In-house hiring processes are really idiosyncratic. It’s hard to compare experiences, because roles vary more than in law firm hiring (so specific candidate experience with the type of work matters more than schools or whether you’re at a top firm). It’s also a very strange market right now…there are a ton of candidates in some cities and industries (so employers can be picky) and almost none in others.
Anon
Could you say more about this? I’m currently looking to go in house and trying to gauge the market. Most of my colleagues are exiting to biglaw since it’s so hot right now (they are AUSAs) so I’m hoping the roles I’m qualified for would have fewer applicants – but that may be wishful thinking!
anon
It’s very industry and region specific. E.g., we are looking for someone with specific federal experience. The position can be entirely remote. It’s been impossible – two months and one mildly decent candidate who we aren’t progressing.
Anon
So when I was at a firm, associates were pretty fungible – we figured we could hire out of any type of corporate group for our (specialized) corporate group, and train people on what they needed to know. In house, I’m not looking to hire someone who will need training on our substantive area of law/industry, because we’re not built to do that. So I’m only interested in candidates who have a background in financial services and experience handling the types of deals we do. Prestige of credentials matters a lot less. My most recent hire was a grad of a not-particularly-distinguished state law school, but had previous work experience at a bank in this subject area.
No Face
This is really good insight.
Anonymous
If you’ve been here 7 years can your firm sponsor you for a green card? Not being a citizen doesn’t usually matter but not having permanent status does.
Anon
Be aware that if your employer is sponsoring you, you will need to stay with that employer throughout the process, which can take a very long time.
Anon
I’m attending a 2-day virtual seminar for women in business, and the keynote speaker didn’t show up, so they have a live DJ buying time while 50+ people wait on Zoo. I feel SO BAD for the organizers right now, but I can’t stop laughing. The tap dancing these poor people have to do.
Monday
Wow. I’ve never seen a keynote no-show!
AZCPA
If it’s virtual, it could be something like a power outage or internet issue at the speaker’s home. Those could make even contacting the organizers challenging, all while scrambling to find somewhere to go to log on. Happened to someone I work with – was a large internal work event vs conference, but they were so stressed and it took nearly an hour before they could make contact with anyone.
AFT
I’ve attended so many virtual CLEs when someone’s internet connection breaks up for a bit and the panelists have to work around it. Keynote with tech issues preventing joining entirely is definitely a nightmare scenario, but I can for sure imagine it (and feel terrible for all involved!)
Anonymous
Oof. Nightmare. I’ve been on the organizer side of this – we always have a low-tech way for speakers to dial in, just in case.
Anonymous
Any suggestions for fun cute beach towels? Not those microfiber travel towels or Turkish towels just normal towels but something cute.
anon
I think this depends on your taste ultimately. I have looked at Pottery Barn Teen, Nordstroms, and Lands End (maybe not the cutest styles but they will last for years) and found towels from each that I’ve gifted or used for myself.
anon
+1 to Lands end. They always have a bunch of designs to choose from so I think you’ll find at least one that you would like.
Anon
I have some Pendleton beach towels that I bought at Marshalls that I like
Senior Attorney
Somebody sent me a pair of cute beach towels with (I think) a fun cartoony map of L.A. on them. If you want them I will send them to you for the cost of shipping because I never go to the beach and I do not have room in my house for one. more. thing. Seriously. seniorattorney1 at gmail.
Anonymous
This is so sweet!! LA doesn’t speak to me but what a lovely offer!
anon
I honestly prefer the cheap, thin ones at Target. They always have cute prints, and they hold up well enough for my purposes. I have found that I don’t like the super thick, luxurious towels for beach and pool purposes, but the Turkish ones don’t interest me at all (aside from looking cute).
Anonymous
Target. (but I have switched to Turkish towels from SandCloud and love them, if you change your mind on the no Turkish towels part.)
Anonymous
Has anyone done pelvic floor therapy?
Curious
I’m seeing a PT for sacroiliac pain, but a lot of what they do is pelvic floor therapy. Nothing manual in “that area” as of yet, more teaching me exercises to relax (currently pregnant and everything is too tight, not too loose). Why do you ask?
Anonymous
Yeah, I got a referral from my OB post delivery and I 100% recommend it
Anonymous
This is discussed a lot on the Mom’s page. You might have good luck asking there.
Cat
yes, why do you ask?
Anon
Lots of people on the moms page have done it.
anon
Yes, 10/10 recommend. I have never given birth and was peeing every time I sneezed, laughed hard, ran hard, or ran honestly. I went in my late 30s.
Anon
I’d love to learn more about nutrition. Does anyone have recommendations of books/blogs that are written by professionals (RDs, etc) but written for the lay person?
Most of what I find is either woo or too academic.
Anonymous
Real Life RD.
Mal
May not be what you’re looking for, but I found the most recent edition of Intuitive Eating very educational – the first part of the book is all about research. Book here: https://www.intuitiveeating.org/our-books/
Anon
Volumetrics, if you want to read about weight loss. I haven’t found a good regular nutrition book but I did like Diet & Nutrition magazine.
Anonymous
Nutrition Action Newsletter is great — CSPI — worth the money (about $24 a year i think).
I always liked Gary Taubes books like Why We Get Fat
Eat, Drink and Be Healthy has a newer edition out (2017) that I haven’t read — Harvard Medical School
Nutrition is a wildly unscientific area because you can’t truly run controlled trials/placebos unless you lock people up and control their intake. I think CSPI and Harvard Medical School can probably be trusted to not be pushing a particular angle.
nuqotw
The stars aligned (i.e. kids at places and time I could spare from work) and I got my first haircut (excluding a very cautious at home trim) since the pandemic started. I feel so pretty and put together!
Senior Attorney
Hooray! Congratulations!
Anonymous
Another vacation question – my partner and I are looking to do a 4-day vacation in July. We’re thinking about LA, somewhere in Southwest (New Mexico?), Chicago, Toronto, or Montreal. Anyone have thoughts on these destinations for July and whether 4 days would make sense? We’d be flying out from the East Coast and essentially want an fun and new place to explore, in lieu of a longer international trip.
Anonymous
You can’t go to Canada. The border is not open to you.
Anon
That’s only the land border (driving). You can certainly fly into Canada.
Anonymous
Not true. Rules change on July 5 for fully vaccinated travellers.
BB
Umm…but isn’t it still closed for all nonessential travel? Basically all they did is take off the quarantine requirements but kept all the limits on citizenship/reasons for entry. (Saying this as someone who desperately wants to go vacation in Canada)
Anon
Only Canadians or Americans who can travel there for an essential purpose (eg., family in Canada). Fully vaccinated American citizens can NOT go for tourism.
Signed, was supposed to be in Banff this summer and still mad about it.
No Face
I love Chicago in July, and could fit a lot in 4 days.
LA is very, very spread out, so there will be a lot of driving and traffic for a July vacation. Never been to the other places on your list.
Senior Attorney
San Diego is nice, though, as is the Central Coast if you like wine tasting and pretty scenery (also Hearst Castle is great and well worth a visit).
No Face
San Diego is great. Much more manageable for a short trip than LA.
Anonymous
Can’t speak to July weather for Chicago, but we loved our 3.5 day trip there two summers ago. We stayed at The Robey hotel (amazing, awesome, would do again) which had a lovely restaurant in the bottom (we did breakfast there twice), rooftop bar, and another rooftop bar with pool. We ate at Piece pizzeria, also in Wicker Park, and went to the Purple Pig (a 2 hour wait at 3 pm, so we walked down to the pier).
Anon
I went to Santa Fe with my teenage daughter for a long weekend in July a couple of years ago and it was great. We flew into Albuquerque because it was a non stop and then drove about an hour to Santa Fe. Stayed at the La Fonda based on a recommendation here, ate yummy food all over town including at the hotel, did some art museums and galleries, drove out to see the Pueblos, bought some pottery and jewelry from shops around town. We only hit the pool once and if you’re looking for a really luxe pool the La Fonda probably isn’t for you. But we really really enjoyed the historic character of the hotel and the rooftop bar was *chefs kiss.*
Everyone said we had to go to Meow Wolf and that was a miss for us. Too touristy, waiting time too long to get in despite reservations, and just not our kind of thing (maybe because we live in Berkeley and “art” like that is everywhere here) but I wouldn’t waste an entire afternoon/early evening on it like we did.
I do highly recommend the Georgia O’Keefe museum!
Anonymous
+1 for the La Fonda. I’ve only been for a night for work so can’t comment on fun things in Santa Fe, but the hotel was lovely. Plus you can add in some things in Albuquerque on your way in or out (Sandia Peak Tram views are amazing). Again, only been for work with a few fun things crammed in, but as an East coaster who didn’t think I’d like deserts, I was surprised by how much I like New Mexico.
Anonymous
though if you do add anything in Albuquerque, just know Albuquerque will be hot in July (except on top of Sandia Peak. And I don’t care if “it’s a dry heat,” high 90s is still hot). Santa Fe should be a little cooler because of the elevation–it is really, really high, which was a fun “why am I so tired? Oh, elevation change is real” surprise
Anon
I forgot one more tip. When you get something like enchiladas or chile relleños (my choice) you can get them with red sauce or green sauce or “Christmas,” which is both.
Honestly I’d punch a baby in the face for some Christmas-sauced Santa Fe chile relleños right now!!
Anon
I’m in Ontario and keep in mind we are still in lockdown.
A.
Plug for Chicago! You can go to the beach at the lakefront, take an architectural tour via boat, eat at some of the very best restaurants, and visit amazing cultural sites and museums. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend Chicago in the winter but man summer in the city is all that and then some. Plus I don’t know if you care about budget but there are two airports, O’Hare and Midway, so it tends to be easier to find good airfare deals.
eBREATH of h
NM has wildfires
Anonymous
I just got back from 4 days in Chicago and think that’s a great amount of time for Chicago. It was also my first trip to Chicago in warm winter as opposed to the dead of winter, and wow is Chicago more fun in the summer.
No Face
Chicago is one of my favorite cities in the summer and one of my least favorite in the winter!
anon
lol all of you saying this about Chicago in the summer never spent the summer of 1995 there like I did! It was the worst summer of my life (admittedly it was not a normal one at all).
Anon
I still have yet to hit Chicago at any point between unbearably hot and unbearably cold. Mostly unbearably cold.
Anon
I flipped out on my husband last night, so I’m venting. He promised to stop at the grocery on the way home to pick up three things we needed. He came home with five things, three of which were wrong. Two of the items he bought had the brand taking up 1/3 of the package face, so he obviously only looked for that and didn’t bother to read the actual product. A third item he bought because he randomly decided I needed it, even though I had plenty of it, and he bought a huge amount (of something that spoils) of the wrong kind and wrong brand.
We both have medical issues that require avoiding certain things, so this isn’t just me being a brat. I literally can’t eat what he bought, and ever since Covid, food stores aren’t allowing returns. We’ve been using these same products for YEARS, this isn’t a new thing.
I am so fed up. A 44-year-old man can’t perform a simple errand to purchase food that our household has been using for over a decade, when he was dictated the exact items.
Anon
That’s infuriating. But also weird to me that grocery stores aren’t allowing returns! Ours never stopped accepting returns as far as I know. Maybe they don’t reuse the product, but they will definitely refund your money.
Anonymous
Gently, this seems like you’re massively overreacting. He went to the store, clearly intended to get the items (and tried to be thoughtful and get additional things he thought you might need), and made a mistake. Try to let this go, or acknowledge that this level of irritation is about issues other than his grocery shopping skills.
Anon
Not OP, but I have a husband who is very spacy and it is really hard. I know the whole ‘cost of admission’ thing exists, and you have to pick your battles, but it is exhausting to be the adult who is organized and perceptive while the other person just makes careless mistakes over and over.
Anonymous
This. It’s not all learned helplessness, either. My husband genuinely wants to contribute, but he is just … not good at certain things.
I agree with the suggestion below to make each partner 100% responsible for certain tasks. Then you never have to explain how you want something done, and your partner never has to feel belittled when you tell them how to do it (even though you shouldn’t have to).
Anon
+1
Anon
I will disagree with you. There’s a lot of learned helplessness on the male side of marriages. It’s a way to get out of ever being asked to do said task again.
anon
+1 How hard is it to follow a specific list? Kids can do this. Come on. The OP says below he is constantly careless – he needs to get his act together.
Anonymous
+1. It’s not hard. OP is right to be annoyed.
No Problem
Yeah, I would send him right back to the store to buy the right things before he had a chance to take off his shoes. You learn to read labels when you learn the consequence of not reading labels is having to run the errand again until you get it right.
anon
Another +1. It’s ok to expect a grown man to do incredibly simple things correctly. What good is he otherwise?
Anon
100%. A grown man should know how to read a label at the grocery store.
Anon
*1 – I’d apologize to your husband for blowing up like that and try to get yourself under control. That kind of anger is what makes people end relationships.
Anonymous
Agree on this. I’m someone who grabs the wrong thing on shelves fairly frequently–I don’t realize until I’m home and then am super mad at myself. Just sensory overload in there or maybe shelves that weren’t stocked right. Literally makes me feel like I’m losing my mind when I go to unpack the groceries or finally notice when I’m starting a recipe. It’s not like he’s deliberately doing this to you.
I’d stop and ask yourself what is really going on right now–are you overly tired, stressed, not feeling well, depressed or some other reason? I find rage like this over semi-small things is usually coming from somewhere else. I’m really tired today after being up with a very sick dog–and I’m glad no one can see my thoughts. I’ve already had a mini-speech in my head for my junior report who didn’t respond to an earlier email, I’m ready to write off a retailer for being late yesterday with some shorts I ordered and I want to scream at my husband for not making sure he pushed food all the way down in the garbage disposal because it stinks from last night’s dinner. I can tell it’s a me thing by just how many things are irritating me today and that it’s probably best to lay low and pick my battles until I’m feeling more like myself.
anon
Complete ineptitude at basic tasks is not a “semi-small thing.” OP is not the problem here.
Anonymous
Stopping at a store and grabbing the wrong things is not “complete ineptitude.” Save the catastrophic talk for something that truly is. Being so ragey over something trivial like this is it’s own problem in a partner as well.
Anon
Yep, I ended a relationship over it. I’m much less angry now that he and his man-child incompetence is no longer my problem.
Senior Attorney
Haha right?
I will say, though, that if this is a continual pattern, then your choices are “learn to live with it,” or “leave.” I feel like “there is no option 3” encompasses “you don’t get to stay with them and yell at them every day.”
Anon
Not if it’s part of a pattern, which I’m assuming it is.
Anon
Does he always not listen, or was this an uncharacteristic mistake? It’s bad that he bought something that will go to waste, but if it’s within your finances to throw it away or give it away, can you let that part go? I am the kind of person who would also go off on my husband, but looking at it more rationally, I would let it go unless it’s part of a pattern. And even then, it might be hard to change. Sounds like there might be more to the story though.
Anon
He’s constantly careless. It’s like having a 40-year-old child.
Anon
Yeah that’s not the same complaint as “he got some of the wrong items at the store”
Senior Attorney
OMG I feel your pain. It’s so horrible because yes, learned helplessness. WTG, Anon’s husband, for avoiding being sent on errands in the future. SO INFURIATING. I’ve been married to that guy twice and honestly there is no cure for manchilditis and it’s a stupidly high price of admission to be expected to pay in a marriage.
Anon
It’s a large part of why I chose to leave the relationship I was in and is an absolute dealbreaker for me now.
nuqotw
That’s incredibly annoying, but gently, it sounds like the sort of thing that might not change and you need a different approach. Any chance you could persuade him to send pictures before he buys stuff/leaves the store? Or place an order for him to pick up?
FWIW I used to flip out on spouse for this exact same thing, which was unrealistic and unfair. Now we are always calling/texting each other with questions when one of us goes to the grocery store because it drives each of us nuts when the other one messes up. Pictures for clarification go a long way, it lets us agree on appropriate substitutes if the store is out of an item, the person at home can check inventory if something we use a lot of turns out to be on sale, etc.
No Face
This is why my husband and I have completely different sets of responsibilities in the home, except for raising our kids. I do not want to text the entire time one of us has an errand!
nuqotw
I hear that; we have some separate responsibilities as well. I almost never do the dishes because he hates the way I do them. I handle the money because I am obsessed with the details and I sleep better knowing where every last cent went.
anon
Right? When my husband pulls that crap, it infuriates me.
Anonymous
Right? Now we both have an errand. Nope, nope, nope.
Anonymous
Same. Each person has his or her own domains and is 100% responsible for those domains.
Anon
It’s unrealistic to expect things will always be 100% either one person’s responsibility or the other.
test run
So I do 99% of the grocery shopping for our household and my husband does 99% of the cooking, but we are still each capable of doing the other tasks because… we’re adults? I mean, we’ve definitely texted each other pictures from the store before like “this?” just to make sure, but I honestly I could not be married to someone who could not do a simple grocery store run. I just wouldn’t respect them and I can’t be with someone I consider to generally be incompetent. I don’t expect someone to do something as well as I do if I’m the person who has been the primary person to do it for years, but I just couldn’t share a bed with someone who couldn’t buy three things at the store. I’m not saying NO ONE should be married to those people, because people get to choose their cost of admission and I certainly have traits not everyone would want to be married to, but I personally couldn’t do it.
Anonymous
I agree with this. At some point, there have to be certain expectations for adulthood. Buying three things from the store is on that list for me. I would find it very hard to respect someone who consistently couldn’t do that. Getting things wrong one time is a totally different story.
No Face
Oh don’t get me wrong, I dumped man-children IMMEDIATELY back when I was dating. I do not feel any attraction to men like that. I love being a mom to my children, but I will never be a mom to a grown a** man.
test run
Yes and sorry I realized after the fact that my comment might have came across as disagreeing with you, but I actually agree! I also split tasks with my spouse the same way (which is why my oil changes now somehow cost twice as much but it’s worth it because I never think about it), but in a pinch he can/does step in for me (and vice versa). We’re definitely not perfect in the division of household labor, but we both hate the learned helpless that creeps into so many relationships and are trying to avoid it (we’ll see where we are in another ten years, lol).
Anon
Amen. OP should not have to bend over backwards to get her dumb @ss husband to bring home the right things from the store one time.
BeenThatGuy
I feel your pain. I called my partner yesterday and said “the temperature has dropped considerably; can you turn the A/C off?” In my mind, that means turn the A/C off and open the windows (after all, it is the end of June and was 70 degrees and not 85 like it had been). But I came home to a completely stagnant house because I didn’t specifically say he should open the windows. I chalk it up to a Venus and Mars thing. Very, very specific communication is my only option. Your situation might be the same.
anon
This to me is different. I don’t always want the windows open when the A/C is off – it’s situation/climate dependant, so I wouldn’t have assumed you wanted the windows open here either.
However, if I was given a specific shopping list, I would buy the specific items on my list. Full stop.
Anon
Agree completely. OP’s husband sounds like a man child. But if you want the windows open you have to specify! If I was told to turn off AC I would not open the windows unless specifically asked to – what if that let all the cool air out?
Anon
I don’t think that’s the same thing, I wouldn’t have assumed you meant open the windows either.
BeenThatGuy
My point was that OP has a communication issue; as did I. If she expected 3 exact things, and communicated effectively that it’s those 3 things and nothing else or any other brands, we wouldn’t be here posting about it today. Just like I’m saying I realized I should have specifically said “turn off the A/C and open the house up” not just “turn off the A/C”.
Anon
Umm sounds like she did do that and her husband still failed. This isn’t like your window situation.
Anon
The difference is she did communicate exactly what she wanted and he still failed to get it. Your window thing is not a good analogy.
Anon
Hmm, yeah I would have messed this up. I don’t always like windows open.
MechanicalKeyboard
I would never assume you meant windows when you literally asked for a completely different thing.
Anony
I’m with ya – if the AC gets turned off, the windows get opened.
BeachByNoon
No advice on the husband but please consider donating the food to a food bank or community pantry/fridge.
Elle
One thing I’ve found helpful with my husband when I want him to get something very specific is googling the exact item you want, taking a screen shot, and then texting them the images. It has made a world of difference for us.
Anonymous
It would be a lot easier just to place an order for him to pick up.
Anon
I’d be furious too. Sadly, for this, I think I’d just turn to Instacart, or if not available in your area, online ordering, and put the shopping burden on myself. (Ugh, but clearly at age 44 he can’t change. Any chance there’s ADHD at play?) “Hey, I ordered groceries online. Please stop by the store and pick up the order on your way home. It’s already paid for, just give them confirmation number XYZ.” (Even the grocery store in our tiny vacation town of 8,000 people offers online ordering and curbside pickup, so maybe that’s a solution.)
Anon
That’s what the husband wants. To have OP take over the task he doesn’t want to do because he did it so badly. This stuff is infuriating and I don’t blame OP for losing it. We hope to find a life partner and coparent and somehow we end up with another kid to take care of.
Anon
I think assuming that the husband is malintentioned/lazy/passive aggressive is a bit far. He bought something else he thought she could use, which sounds thoughtful in a misplaced way, which is why I suggested ADHD. But I know I can’t change another human, so I’m going to make my life easier – do a part of it to lessen my frustration (ordering online), while still saving myself time by making him do the legwork (picking up the order).
Anon
If you’re in your 40s and you haven’t at least tried to figure out how to be a competent, functional human being, that’s on you. Stop making excuses for man children.
Anon
Plus a million to 1:26
Stop coddling your partner, friends. It will inevitably end up in seething resentment.
Anon-na-nah
Agree with 1:26 and 1:38. Yes, doing things to make it easier for H to help also helps me. But you know what would REALLY help? H actually taking the task completely off my plate. Add me to the list of women who left a marriage behind this.
Anon2
Is online grocery shopping an option where you live? In the future, can you place the order online and have him do curbside pickup?
Shelle
I would also be upset. How he tries to fix it would tell me a lot about his intentions. An acceptable response would be to go back out immediately or first thing in the morning to get the correct items. If instead he called it a wash, that would be unacceptable to me. My partner and I have each messed up on occasion and have always made a strong effort to make it right. It shows that the person is genuinely sorry and trying to be respectful and loving.
Anonymous
The issue is not whether he forgets stuff – some people are more forgetful than others. The issue is how he handles it when he does. Did he hop in the car, drive back to store and pick up what you needed?
DH is the classic absent minded professor but does not expect me to pick up after him. He forgot something on the list that we need? He drives back to the store to get it.
Anon
He’s not forgetting? He’s just literally not putting in enough effort to complete the task at hand.
anon
If he’s like this with everything, yes that is a massive problem. My husband takes care of a million things in our life but does buy the wrong things at the grocery store because he doesn’t look at the labels as closely as I do. I try to just be irritated for an hour and then let it go.
Anon
Genuine question–how do people like the husband in this scenario function at work? Scenario: boss asks husband to do three specific things. He does three well-intentioned but incorrect things. How is this not a problem in his work life, if given the level of specificity in the grocery shopping example, and failure with grocery shopping?
Anon
There are plenty of jobs where you don’t need this kind of “executive functioning” (not sure if that’s the right term, but that’s how I think of it). My husband is a successful university professor and has issues like this in the real world. He is smart and he works hard but he isn’t good with details except as it pertains to his very, very niche field where he’s one of the top 5 most knowledgeable people in the world. That’s very common among professors.
Anon
I work in a central office function at an R1. These guys 100% can handle details when they want to. Note that academic women do not tend to have similar reputations for being “absent minded professors”.
Anon
Probably because he cares at work and so actually does things correctly.
AnonInfinity
Yup! If his job required it or if he lived alone, he’d probably do it correctly.
Senior Attorney
Exactly. So infuriating.
On your side 100
Late reply but I hope you read this, OP. This is so frustrating and I agree you shouldn’t have to deal w/ habitual man child behavior. It’s not ok, and I don’t think husbands should get a pass because “this stuff is so hard for men!!!” No, that doesn’t fly. Men like this presumably know how to function, since they can hold down a job, wash themselves, pay bills (when single anyway, etc.).
I’d recommend:
-Apologizing if you yelled, blew up, etc.
-Explain that it’s not about the actual items, but this kind of error, along with other behavior, really makes you feel ignored and unheard.
-Do NOT, under any circumstances, just take over the task! This is how resentment builds and labor becomes unequal!
If you find yourself habitually blowing up, maybe talk to someone. Not necessarily to learn how to live with this behavior, but to learn scripts and strategies moving forward. Godspeed!
anon
My attitude lately has been … quite bad. I am low-level bitter about so many things. In no particular order:
– My special-needs kid is even farther behind than his peers than he was before the pandemic (because virtual therapy for kids is a joke). I am absolutely exhausted from the amount of energy he needs from me, which I realize isn’t fair, but it is what it is.
– The summer camp rigamarole is driving me insane and we’re only a month into this. Kid has already had behavior issues at camp, so I’m dealing with that.
– It’s summer, and I’m working my tail off instead of playing.
– Husband’s attention is focused on work and taking care of his mom right now (long story, it’s the right thing to do, but that means I’m bearing more of the burden at home and solo parenting more than I’d like).
– Work demands keep piling up, and my attention is divided across too many projects. I haven’t had a 1:1 with my boss in a month because she keeps canceling and rescheduling. Returning to work has been a hot mess of dysfunction, and the expectations aren’t totally clear.
I don’t even know how to pull myself out of the pit of being crabby literally all the time. Is this just post-pandemic life? Because it feels really hard right now even though things are supposed to be better. I had a girls’ trip a month ago and it was so nice to only worry about myself for 48 hours.
Anonymous
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. On the work front, I’ve had the same thing happen – my boss keeps cancelling our 1:1s, even though there are fairly urgent workload issues we need to discuss. She thinks it’s not urgent, but never bothers to ask me if I agree. Is that an area where you can push back? Next time she cancels, can you request that you prioritize this meeting to discuss competing demands?
Anon
I am also finding the beginning of post pandemic life stressful. In different ways than you – and I’m sorry, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate – but my own stuff seems harder than usual. I feel like lockdown was so hard in some ways, but in other ways it was sort of freeing – life was sort of on hold, expectations were lower, and I basically burrowed in like a tick and just waited.
Now that my family and I are vaccinated and things are opening up, I’m somewhat disappointed to be back to the rat race, no more excuses, back to unreasonable deadlines and also cleaning up the mess from the last year. I couldn’t wait to get back to the world, but the world is different.
It’s a big adjustment. Hang in there. We will get used to this too.
Anon
Short term: I find focusing on gratitude for the things I do have helps to improve my attitude. “Name three things you’re grateful for each day.” Sounds cheesy but works, for me at least.
Medium-long term: you’ve mentioned items that go beyond pandemic life. These issues may have been magnified by the pandemic, but they’d be issues regardless. What can you do to focus on self-care? It’s not practical to go on a girls’ trip every month, maybe, but what about a massage? Exercise? Sunday nights when you just unplug and sit by yourself and do something you want to do? Therapy?
Anon
Along this line, you’d struggle with summer childcare regardless of the pandemic, right? Is a sitter a possibility? Are you able to buy yourself some relief on any of these fronts?
Anon
I had IPL (actually BBL, broadband light) for rosacea yesterday and today my cheeks are so swollen I can see the tops of them when I smile. I feel like an overly-injected Real Housewife.
If you’ve had this, how long did it take for the swelling to subside?
Anonymous
I didn’t have that sort of swelling. Might be worth checking with the derm if that’s normal (in case maybe you should be icing or anything else). The only after effects I’ve had was a slight reduction in wrinkles the day after (she said it’s because of a temporary boost to collagen) and some dark spots (like coffee grounds) that shed within a few days. FWIW, one of the best things I’ve done. I did maybe–four treatments or so–and my skin tone evened out significantly. So much that one of my guy friends even complimented how great my skin looked.
Anon
I have a couple of coffee ground spots today. I mostly don’t have brown discoloration, I’m mainly red, but it’s interesting to see them turn dark dark brown!
Anon
I can always see the tops of my cheeks when I smile…now I’m wondering if my cheeks are freakish.
Anon
I assume it’s normal for some people. it’s just not normal for me!! No shade to people with naturally full cheeks. People pay real money for that look.
Anon
I’ve had laser treatment three times for rosacea (not sure what kind of light though) and the swelling was bad for me. Like so swollen my eyes were nearly closed. The second day after was the worst (so, tomorrow for you), but I would say that some swelling lasted for 4 days.
Anon
thanks! Wow, you had it worse than me.
I’ve had laser before this, but it was the kind where it’s pinpoint lasering of specific blood vessels leaving me with purple polka dot bruising all over my face. V beam is what it was called.
This BBL is gentler and I guess sort of wider, less pinpointed, so the expected side effect is something like a sunburn rather than purple dots. I decided to go this way this time because I had too much downtime the other way. (3+ weeks of camouflage makeup vs today I can pretty much cover the redness with a tinted moisturizer)
Anonymous
Wait everyone can’t always see the tops of their cheeks when they smile?!?!
Sunshine71
I had BBL for mild type 1 rosacea and didn’t have any swelling or reactions. Have you called the provider to see what could be going on or what to do?
Anon
After I posted this, she called to check in to see how I was doing. I mentioned the swelling and she said it was normal. She did mention that she “went to town” on my cheeks (where I have the most redness) because my skin was handling it well. I appreciate that because in the long run it means fewer treatments and will save me $ (and this is already $$!)
I appreciate all the feedback except for the poster who told me it would be worse tomorrow! Hahah, no I appreciate that too, I just don’t want them to be worse tomorrow.
Anon in LA Area
I’ve been doing IPL, IPL with VBEAM, and now BBL for about 10 years every three years. This time was first time doing BBL and I did have more redness initially (not too much swelling, a little) but ended up with a great result with just one treatment — looking forward to next two. I’ve very light light ruddy skinned blue eyed blonde over 50 with some capillaries that I need to stay on top of.