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Hooray for Old Navy for incorporating “no-peek” buttons into its plus-sized button-downs. (Sadly, I’m not seeing it in the straight sizes yet, but I’m hoping they’ll come around.) This chambray shirt has interior buttons at the bust to prevent the gapping that makes me avoid most tops with buttons.
I love a chambray shirt and often wear one with black leggings on the weekends for running errands. This would also look great tucked into a pencil skirt for a more casual office.
The top is on sale for $28 (marked down from $32.99) and available in sizes 1X–4X. Today you can get 30% off your order, which brings the price down to only $19.60.
This chambray shirt from Caslon comes in sizes XS–XL and is on sale for $29.97.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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Jane
Seeking advice on how to set career goals when you seem to have “proven it” enough, are in a high enough position for your age and experience and even though you’re not earning a 6fig salary, you’ve reached the salary ceiling or thereabouts for your line of career. Further complicated by the fact that “side gigs” are not allowed due to visa issues.
Anon
Are you looking for personal goals, or goals to share in a review with your manager? Maybe setting goals around helping people new to the career or early in their journeys follow in your successful footsteps through mentoring, networking, creating/leading trainings?
Jane
Thank you! I’m looking for personal goals to stay motivated and not keep slacking off… Also I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t affect me to see my peers from school work hard to earn more and more money… So if that’s not the goal, what goals can I set?
anonshmanon
To expand into personal goals – I’d go looking for a purpose besides work. That can be volunteering to make the world a little bit better, seriously picking up a hobby or sport or instrument. I find that when my overall to-do list (work+private) is at a sweet spot of fullness (not overwhelming, but full enough so I need to keep slacking under control) I am and feel most productive. If I have something to get done in my off-time, I will be less likely to procrastinate and let my work drag on forever.
Shananana
My goals have transitioned more into becoming an “expert” in my field. Trying to write for industry publications, give presentation for webinars for continuing education, get involved in the industry specific professional groups.
Anon
Challenge yourself to add a new skill to your resume each year within your current role. Not necessarily for career advancement, but for personal growth.
One year you might find look for a project that shows leadership. The next you might look for a project that shows tech mastery, like SAP or Excel. The next, maybe you look for a way to understand hiring – ask to be involved in interviewing candidates or recruiting from colleges or whatever.
Ask your manager to help you think of ideas once you’ve narrowed down your focus. “Manager, to keep challenging myself to grow, I’d like to find opportunities to show leadership this year. I was thinking I could work to take the lead on our Y project or start writing a business case to get our Z initiative up and running. But I wanted to see if you have any thoughts on other opportunities where you’re looking for someone to step up, or where you might need someone to take items off your plate?”
Anon
This question is a little bit career-specific, but I agree with the idea to add an extra skill each year. The skill could be knowledge-based (learn coding, use Tableau to present results) or intangible (communication, negotiation, leadership, management skills).
AnonATL
I really want to love ON’s Chambray and Twill shirts like this, but the arms fit me terribly. Even if I size up and am swimming in the rest of the shirt they are way too snug.
Go for it
This!
pugsnbourbon
I tried one of their “oversize” shirts in tencel, and I found that the arms were comfortable. Unfortunately the shirt got a hole in it after about eight wears – it was really comfortable and cute while it lasted!
Anonymous
I posted the other day that I had just received the second dose of my COVID vaccine and somebody asked how I was feeling, so I just wanted to report back my experience. Initially I only had some mild arm soreness. After about 8 hours, I had moderate chills and body aches. That lasted for about 12 hours and then I was totally back to baseline. Also this week, a friend from high school (late 30’s) had to get moved to the ICU and get a trach while he is battling COVID. I am very grateful to have received the vaccine.
Anon
yes yesterday i spoke to a colleague who is apprehensive about the vaccine bc she heard it makes people feel sick…um, i’d rather feel sick for 24-48 hours than end up on a ventilator. i would say to each their own, but we need like 70% of adults to get vaccinated for herd immunity, so i hope as time goes on people become less apprehensive
Anonymous
The double standard astonishes me. “I’d rather take my chances with the virus” is an incomprehensible view to me, given what we know about the virus and what we know about the vaccines, whatever we say about the unknowns. All I can think is that people would rather die and have it not be their fault than get a headache because they consented to a treatment.
anon
People are really really dumb and selfish. That’s my honest takeaway from 2020.
Anon.
This.
Anon
Apparently the rabies shot (shots?) are really, really bad. Dying of rabies? It is apparently a really dire illness that will kill you. So, yes, shots.
Anon
I’ve had those shots, and they were the most painful in my life. It was still leaps and bounds above not having them, and that is true even when all they do is extend the time to get a rabies shot if you get bitten. It’s not a full protection on their own, or at least wasn’t when I had to have them 15 years ago. I’ll take any painful shot if it will protect me against a deadly illness
KW
I agree. Unfortunately, a problem I keep hearing is people who have already had the virus won’t get the vaccine because “my body already knows how to fight off the virus” so they think they don’t need it. It’s so frustrating.
Is it Friday yet?
Ugh. I had it, and I still got vaccinated, because the vaccine provides immunity for way longer than having the virus apparently does. Also, side effects from vaccine (extremely sore arm for 48 hours, slight chills and feeling blah for like 24) were wayyyy better than actually having COVID, even the mild case I did.
Thanks, it has pockets!
Right? Like, considering the likelihood of being completely asymptomatic, the vaccine might *in theory* make you a little sicker than the virus would, but I’d still rather feel sick for a day and know that a) I won’t end up in the hospital and b) I’m contributing to a much-needed herd immunity so we can all get back to our lives later this year.
No Face
Same! I am willing to feel absolutely terrible if I can avoid hospitalization, unknown long term effects and/or death.
Congrats on getting fully vaccinated OP!
Flats Only
If we can’t get to 70% vaccinated, can we at least get the point where the vaccine in universally easily available (like, walk into any pharmacy and get it for free, whenever is convenient for you), and then just leave the anti-vax types to fend for themselves? If they get COVID too bad, it’s on them, kind of like the folks who skip flu shots. We don’t keep everything shut down to protect people against the flu, since there is the option for a vaccine for it. Cruel and dystopian, yes, but we can’t wait forever for society to get back to normal while we wait for the “I don’t feel like it” crowd to come around.
Anonymous
But the problem is there are people that cannot get it. Right now, kids. But more broadly, some people that very much need it wont be able to get it. That’s the idea of herd immunity.
Anon
I had a significant reaction to the Shingrix (shingles) vaccine. I was in bed for two days with flu like symptoms. Still better than shingles! Worth it.
My brother in law was debilitated with shingles for a month and very nearly lost vision in one of his eyes. My sister his wife still refuses to get the vaccine.
anon
My aunt was hospitalized for almost a month as a child with measles and didn’t vaccinate her kids. People are morons
Anonymous
Sorry you had a bad reaction. My husband was concerned about the Shingrix vaccine but had to have it (he is immune compromised and doctor thought it was important). He had rearranged his work schedule to be light and was prepared to be in bed for a few days, had all laundry done, etc., etc. All he talked about. Turned out little arm soreness a few hours after and nothing else. Like no different than the flu vaccine for him. (I think he was weirdly disappointed after all the worry!) I’m relieved he was able to get it though. Shingles is no joke. My grandma had it and pain was so bad she could barely walk for several weeks.
Coach Laura
I’m immune-compromised (from lymphoma and lymphoma treatment) and I WANT a reaction to shingles or flu or covid vaccine. If someone doesn’t have a reaction – especially to the second dose – it may mean that their body’s weak immune reaction means that the vaccine won’t be effective. So if your husband didn’t have a big reaction may not be good news. My oncologist told me that, being immunecompromised, the shingrix and covid vaccines may not be protective. And this is another reason why I need herd immunity for covid, but isn’t applicable for shingles.
Vicky Austin
I got my second shot on Wednesday and yesterday was rough. My arm has been really sore for both doses, but yesterday I felt achy, tired and “in a fog.” So, much the same. The nurse who gave me the shot warned me that the second dose might make me feel worse, and she was right. (Moderna, for reference.)
Ellen
Wow! Your lucky to have gotten the shot. You must be 65+, no? My dad has been trying to get a shot but all the freinds he had at the CIA have retired, so he has no “in” to get stuff the way he used to when he was working. The fact that he is an educator now is useless to him b/c he is just an adjunct, meaning that he has no benefits! He says he just can’t win. I feel bad for him b/c he is living with Grandma Trudy and Mom who also need a shot. FOOEY on the COVID and on the old administration for not even having a plan the way Coumo says ?!? Can that be right? What happened to Warp Speed? PTOOEY on that!
anon
My sister is a nurse and recently got her second dose. She had a rough time with the second dose, but it’s still better than getting covid. We’ve had a family death due to covid already, so I’m not playing around when it comes to getting the vaccine. (I’m also going to be very low on the priority list, which is fine! Just all that to say that I will be getting it.)
Anonymous
My sister is also a nurse and has had COVID. For her, the first dose was the rough one– apparently it’s pretty common for people that already have the antibodies to have the stronger reaction to the first dose vs the 2nd. She was tired for 3 days and had a big rash. It cleared and she got the 2nd dose without an issue.
Anon
I received my vaccine because there were leftover doses after vaccinating medical staff as so many people working in the hospital refused to get them. The doses would have gone to waste, so I was offered one. I jumped (JUMPED) at the chance. Mild fever and sore arm. My friend lost his partner who was healthy and in his mid-40s. I’m not messing around. It makes me sad that there has been so much disinformation about the vaccine that even medical personnel are refusing it.
anonshmanon
With those people who get one dose that’s leftover, is there any mechanism to get them a second shot within 3-4 weeks?
Anon
Yes, I have one ear marked for me in 4 weeks.
Betsy
I wish I knew where to hang around to be in the right place at the right time to get offered an “extra” dose! My FIL got one in that way though (he was at the VA for a regular appointment), which was thrilling because he is the person who I worry about the most. His second shot appointment is scheduled, so they do have a mechanism to make sure that happens.
Z
My sister works at a pharmacy that is doing vaccine clinics, sometimes if they have doses thawed but no clinic scheduled before they go bad, they’ll give them to pharmacy staff and their families.
anon
So, what’s the deal with Olive and June? Their ads are taking over my Instagram feed. Is the system and polish really that good? I am intrigued, mostly because I’m not great at keeping up with nail care and the colors are nice. I also think I could do the same thing with stuff I have already, minus that poppy handle.
And if anyone has tips on how they work nail care into their routine, I’m all ears. I want to have nice hands and nails but fail hard on execution. I spent some quality time last evening with cuticle remover because they were raggedy beyond belief after many weeks of neglect.
Shanana
So I caved and bought some based on a friend who is obsessed, and I will say the polish brushes fit my nail bed nicely, and I find the polish and top coat wear really well and dry quickly. I did see they are going to start selling the polish at target, and its only around eight dollars, which for good nail polish is in the normal range, which will open up my buying more in the future. And honestly, I’m not the best but I try to make my sunday ritual doing my nails. I think a lot of what they did well that is causing them to be everywhere is focus on teaching people via tons of live streams and videos how to do their own nails with the timing of being in a pandemic when people couldn’t or weren’t comfortable going to salons.
Anon
I totally got sold on the internet marketing and bought both of the mani and pedi systems. I think they oversell how great it is b/c I was expecting…something…better than usual. But my experience honestly is that it is just regular old nail polish with regular old nail tools that for me lasts just as long as doing my nails has always lasted (i.e. a few days). I guess it could be helpful if you don’t already have a lot of the tools to do your nails to get them all at once, not sure if you could just piece them together for much cheaper though. I was already doing a lot of the steps that they highlight. The poppy thing you can put on the bottles to help apply is I guess unique and helps, but not sure that alone is worth the money. The cuticle stick they gave me for my mani set honestly ran out of liquid in like a week, partly because way too much would come out when opened.
So, overall, #cantwaitfornailsalonsagain
ANON
I bought the mani system after thinking about it for 6-ish months. I just did my second manicure last night. I took the polish off from the first mani 12 days later, and it honestly looked good for a solid week+ (I was previously using the Essie twisted top bottle-can’t remember what those are called) and while I liked those, the O+J definitely lasted longer. So far I feel it was a worthwhile investment. I found a coupon online. I think the key is buffing your nails beforehand which I previously did not do, but the polish also seems high quality to me.
anon
I have never been good about keeping my nails “together” myself. Generally, my nails are strong and grow fast, so I would do a quick file and that’s it. However, my cuticles get out of control and I am generally lazy. I got the full mani/pedi kit and really like it. The pedi “stool” is super helpful for painting. I like have all of the things stored in one container. The poppy is VERY helpful for painting. I found that I slow down and feel more “competent” at doing my nails. I’m beginning to incorporate it into my weekend routine. Love that I’ll be able to buy more polish and cuticle stuff from Target instead of waiting for orders. Much like when I have paperwork to file/bills to pay, I put on a silly show that does not require much attention and do my nails then. Usually later in the day when I won’t have much else to do so that I don’t immediately ruin them (in the past I would often ruin at home manis like immediately). In the past, I would get a gel mani every other month or so and pedis only in the summer.
Blair Waldorf
CapHillStyle did a review and said meh. I already have a manicure routine I’m happy with – my sense is that it’s best for people who don’t regularly do their own nails.
Dahlia
Yeah, I tried it and the colors were cute but it didn’t last any longer than the essie nail polish I usually buy and I didn’t see any significant difference in the application. I got a cute grey color that lasted about 4 days (my usual with essie), and I got a light pink color that started peeling within 2 days on one application and the next day on a second application which is shorter than essie lasts for me. I actually didn’t like the thicker brush on the polish, but I think that’s just because I’m already used to doing my own nails with the thinner brushes. I agree that it’s best for people who don’t usually do there own nails and need help with the basics. I was excited by the instragram ads but probably won’t buy from them again.
Quality Jewelry
I’m recently divorced, and just got my BigLaw bonus. While it’s almost all going into my savings, I want to buy myself a ring for my right hand (one, I miss wearing a pretty ring every day; and two, I want to buy something for myself to celebrate getting through a really tough year with the divorce).
I’m thinking a sapphire ring (or maybe topaz? Or if you have any other suggestions). I want it to be a ring I can wear every day. Do you have recommendations on where to buy one? I’m willing to spend up to $5k. I’ve never made this big of a jewelry purchase, and want to make sure I’m getting good value and high quality. Thanks!
AnonATL
I have been drooling over the cluster rings at bario neal. I’m a big sapphire fan. My engagement ring is a traditional blue sapphire, but I love all the other colors available.
No Face
These are stunning!
Anon
That is my bonus present to me! Can’t wait for it to arrive. Got it with a stacking band.
Anon
Wow. Drool.
Senior Attorney
OMG those are amazing! They look so modern.
Anokha
These cluster rings are insanely gorgeous.
Allie
Wow. Stunning!
Beans
No advice on where to buy – I am in the Southeast and went to a local, very reputable jewelry store. But I did the same thing! I love my ring and am glad I bought it. I already had a sapphire ring so I went with a large aquamarine ring. Kudos on your accomplishment and for making it through a tough year!
Veronica Mars
With a $5k budget, I’d contact Victor Canera and Steven Kirsh and see if they can source a sapphire or other gem for you and do a right-hand ring. I really love tsavorite for its vibrant green color, more durability than emerald, and lower cost. Check out AJS gems dot com and see some of the other gems they have, like tourmalines, spinels, etc. If you pick a less expensive stone, there’s more budget for the setting. For both designers, it’s on the lower end of what they do, but you could definitely have something beautiful. I think a Diana-style sapphire halo is a little bit of a reach unless you really get on pricescope and have a lot of help finding an antique stone (remember, Diana’s sapphire is ENORMOUS, like 18 carats, and to get close to the “look” you’ll need 4+ carats, which is HUGE). Erika Winters also does a number of lovely gold diamond band rings that would look fab that are under $5k (although she is EXPENSIVE her work is instantly recognizable and worth it). For most tailored help, post on the colored gems section on Pricescope and ask for help. Katherine James is a UK based jeweler that offers some good gemstone options (although IMO it’s more stock jewelry and not really the artistry you’re getting with the above designers). And finally, if you’re into a more rustic look, James Meyer Jewelry is great and he has some ready made pieces in budget.
TheElms
5k is likely not enough for Victor Canera or Steven Kirsh, but some alternative designers to consider are CaysieVanBebber and David Klass. I have a couple of rings from each of them for under 5k that are stunning.
Anonymous
I’m always a fan of vintage jewels! Stunning, uncommon, and often more affordable than their new counterparts.
Anon
I love my Nicole rose rings! She has some good sapphires.
pugsnbourbon
Sapphire is great for a daily-wear ring (9 on the Mohs scale vs diamond at 10). Topaz and spinel are also good options that come in a variety of colors. My engagement ring is a sapphire and I wear it daily.
Eragem has lots of vintage sapphires in a different colors.
Anon
I’m a big fan of estate jewelry and vintage rings in particular. There are some gorgeous cocktail rings from prior era! I am partial to Art Deco.
Xin
I’ve been in the market for a similar ring as a gift to myself later this year for when I finally finish paying off my student loans, and I’ve been looking at rings from Mociun. I’m also getting a lot of good ideas for other jewelers from this thread!
Panda Bear
If you like vintage and antique jewelry, my favorite shop (where we bought my engagement ring, and I’ve bought a few other gifts to myself) are from Market Square Jewelers. They are local to me, but have a good website and ship all over.
Ellen
If you are now divorced, why not try and look for a decent man? I am sure that you are viewed as eligible as a member of biglaw, so you will not have to scrape the bottom of the barrell, b/c there are a few good ones out there. Good luck to you!
Anonymous
Beladora has some awesome Art Deco ones
No Problem
Controversial opinion: I hate the look of chambray. I have never seen anyone wearing it (in person, on a model) and thought: she looks great! It just looks like badly faded denim that wrinkles easily, and rarely seems to be cut into flattering shapes. I guess it’s reasonably comfy, but so are hundreds of other not-ugly things.
anon
I agree with you!
Anon
Even if it doesn’t have a Disney character embroidered on it, I always mentally see one.
Vicky Austin
hahahahahaha
Anon
Huh, I have some great cut versions from JCrew and love the look when mixed with tailored classics ala Jenna Lyons – I think the high/low look is fantastic.
nuqotw
I don’t think it’s a workwear fabric but it’s soft and comfy for times when soft and comfy are in order.
Lyssa
I don’t hate-hate it, but I don’t really get the appeal, either. It generally just looks kind of blah to me.
FFS
I was thinking the exact same thing. I despise it.
LaurenB
I agree. Not a chambray fan but to each her own.
PNW
I have a big oversized chambray work shirt that I swiped off my dad more than 20 years ago. I wear it on weekend mornings when I’m staying in my jammies but feel a bit chilly. I also travel with it if I’m staying somewhere where I won’t feel comfortable walking around braless, like my in-laws house. Love it, but I don’t think I’ve ever worn it like an actual shirt in the real world.
Annony
Haha! I’m the opposite. I see it on models and think, “I love the way that looks so casual, and yet so chic!” And then on me, it’s just … so not good.
Cat
I don’t like the look either, but I suspect it’s because I wore them earnestly in the early-mid 90’s tucked into khaki pants (elementary school) or with tweed miniskirts (middle / early high school).
Moonstone
I like chambray, but stopped wearing it a few years ago after an awkward work trip where the 35-year-old guy from my team and I both showed up at the vendor’s office for a training in the identical outfit: Terracotta-colored jeans and a chambray button down. (As Abe Simpson always says: It was the fashion at the time.) We were the only two people to be trained and the trainer was puzzled. I think he thought our employer required this as a uniform.
Anon
Ha, I googled Terracotta to make sure I was thinking of the right color. Too funny.
Cb
Haha! My (male) officemate and I walked into the office on a Friday in buffalo plaid and black jeans. He was in red, I was in blue. We had to take a photo.
PolyD
When my boyfriend and I first started going out, in grad school in the early 1990s, we showed up for a school event both wearing black crew neck sweaters with white tee shirt underneath, khaki pants, and black shoes.
I’m middle ground about chambray. I like how it works s a neutral with so many colors, and can tone down brighter colors. But I am not a fan of button up shirts (small frame, but kind of busty) in general, especially not “crisp” ones. That way lies disaster.
anne-on
I have exactly 2 chambray button downs and they are both from Brooks Brothers and are cut just like their normal button downs and have a much thicker weight. They are SO soft and cozy and they’re great for looking either a bit more dressed up with jeans, or a bit more funky with trousers/skirts for the office. But otherwise, yes, every single other piece of chambray I tried (much like linen) turned into a sloppy wrinkled mess on me.
Anon
I had a chambray shirt in law school that I frequently wore with leggings, riding boots, and a scarf. I also very frequently saw chambray shirts worn under vests with riding boots (Han Solo look). It was also common to wear chambray shirts with colored pants. This was about 10 yrs ago in the SEUS. My shirt wore out, and I never replaced it… I see them as something fairly dated and am not sure how I would wear one today.
Anonymous
Yeah, I agree. It just doesn’t look great. It can look okay, but I’ve never seen it look great.
Anon
So funny. I keep buying chambray, like one shirt every two years or so, and then getting rid of it because I realize after a while that I never wear it. Maybe a couple of wears and then it sits in my closet. It makes me feel very un-hip, no matter how in style it is at the moment.
Anon
Still love chambray shirts with black leggings. It’s a great way to add structure to a casual outfit.
House?
I’m a big law mid-level in a HCOL. I always thought I’d be married by the time it was time to consider buying, but that hasn’t happened. I’ve been inspired by the stories on this board about buying while single, but being dependent on a single income plus the uncertainty of what comes next has left me a little uncertain how to even set a budget, let alone the next steps.
On the one hand it feels like this interest rate environment is a don’t miss chance to get a home. On the other, everyone else has clearly thought the same thing, driving up prices and down stock. To further complicate matters, do I buy something that just serves my life now, which could be something like a two-bedroom condo with some outside space/balcony, or something like a 3-bedroom townhome, which would give my house much more staying power if my life goes in the direction I would like (partner and a kid)? I’d rather the latter, but I worry about ending up house poor.
I’d like to actually start looking, rather than just anxious Zillow scrolling, so that I can make real decisions, but step one, the budget, is the part that trips me up. I don’t know if partnership, in house, or the government is the next step, but I’d like to stay in my current city. I’ve run the numbers through various “how much house can I afford” calculators at the, both at my current salary (a far too large $1.2 million house) and the lowest likely government salary (a much smaller $550k house, that would foreclose the 3-bedroom townhome route in my city). I’ll be able to cover the 20% down payment on the purchase with savings, the question is just monthly cost.
So, how would you think about home ownership, particularly if the future seems unclear? Thank you!
Anon
I have been meaning to post about the subject as well. I’m curious how many women out there are just choosing to rent forever. I feel like we will be able to retire faster if we don’t sink our money into a house and every single person I know who bought a house as an investment made way less money than I thought they would, including in the Bay Area where I live, and some were house poor the entire time. Then there’s that classic JL Collins essay…
Anonymous
Due to multiple job changes, I have been renting and, looking back, do not regret it.
Anon
I own my house, but do not consider it an investment, for all the reasons Collins lists.
My ideal house would be an absolute visual riot on the scale of some of Bruce Goff’s most wild works. It would be awesome, but probably not much for the resale market. Alas, I’ll likely not ever have the money to throw at such a whim.
Anon
Just a word on choosing to rent forever. I am 55 and have several friends who have chosen the rent forever option because here in the SF Bay Area, buying a house has always seemed ridiculously expensive (and keeps getting expensive-er)
All but one of these friends have been forced out of their long term rentals because their landlords didn’t like the rent controlled price they were locked into. I know theoretically there are lots of protections for this, but landlords will do anything and everything to get you out, including just making your life miserable, and it eventually worked on all but that one friend. She’s only still there because when they sued her (yes they did) she found an attorney and counter-sued them. Now they will not communicate with her at all and will not perform any maintenance on her apartment. They’ve used the clauses they can to kick her out of her apartment temporarily to make building repairs that do nothing to improve her own space and sometimes make it worse, which has a huge inconvenience. They have tried to take away her parking space, which has been hers since she moved in 20 years ago, claiming it was not part of the court decision so she had to reopen the case. Now they have narrowed her space to the point that she often has to crawl across her car to get out the other door. It’s this kind of thing that made all my other friends eventually give up and move out.
Rent forever is not always simple. At least with a mortgage, you know your monthly payments forever.
Anon
That is all nuts, but being in SF I am also not surprised.
I agree there is some value to owning and feeling somewhat control of your destiny vs. renting & being a little bit at a 3rd party’s whim is something to consider in the equation that is hard to value.
But that might be more of a Bay Area thing, where getting kicked out of a rent controlled apt. and having to rent a market rate apt. is a huge. deal. – unlike most other places where presumably you are at more or less market rate either way.
Anon
Buying stabilizes housing costs and gives you equity. If you’re in the financial position to do so it’s generally a smart choice, barring some atypical circumstances. Wouldn’t it suck to need an extra $3k a month when you retire for housing?
Anonymous
Agreed, owning a home is more of a retirement plan than a wealth building strategy. It reduces your post-retirement housing expenses to the cost of property taxes and maintenance.
Anonymous
I’m in a similar spot! I could buy a one bedroom in my current city which would be great for right now but I’m 37 and whether Mr. Right turns up or not, i want a baby soon. So I’m looking at 3 bed townhouses in the community I’d like to raise a kid in. (The two options are equivalent in price).
lifer
Just remember, they aren’t really equivalent at all. The townhouse will cost a lot more $$ due to maintenance costs, more furniture, higher utilities etc… You will be shocked how much more expensive it will be. Be honest with yourself.
If Mr Right comes around, you will have more $ to move and buy something you both like. What if he doesn’t like your place? Or jobs change? Or ???
Buy for now. Not your fantasy future.
Anon
That makes no sense when you are planing to have a baby in, I’m guessing, the next three years. It costs a lot of money to sell and purchase a new place, and doesn’t make any sense to buy a place that won’t work for at least 5 years. Trust her to be smart enough to know the best option for herself
lifer
She doesn’t have a partner. She asked for our opinions and I gave mine. I guess I am just more practical.
Anon
I’d sort of split the difference – not the lowest likely gvt salary but a reasonable gvt salary (for me that would be fed gvt as opposed to state gvt). And I assume prices are inflated now so wouldn’t stretch for the biggest, most expensive place because that price may not hold. And most people I know moved within the first few years of their kids life so even if you buy a smaller place tomorrow and then immediately fall in love and have a kid next year, you’ll be fine in a 2 bedroom for a few years.
Anonymous
+1. A 2 bedroom is plenty of space for a couple and a child. I wouldn’t go any bigger than that in your position — it’s easier to move to a bigger home in a few years if you find that you need it than to move to a smaller one because you bought too much house.
Anon
I was on my second house by the time I met my husband, so have a few thoughts. If you’re in an area where real estate appreciates and you don’t have an amazing rent control deal, absolutely buy. I sold my first condo at a huge profit, and then bought a building where I have a unit to rent and one to live in. For your first place, I would get at least two bedrooms but I wouldn’t worry about it serving your future life and I’d focus more on what you can comfortably afford. A minimum of 2 bedrooms is going to be easier to sell or rent down the road and that’s what I’d think about with respect to flexibility. If you partner up later, you’ll have a nice asset to live in, rent or sell to address that stage of your life. I was single until my 40s, and sometime in my 30s I really just decided to live my life as it currently was. You can always adjust later. Don’t let being single get in the way of making a good financial decision now (presuming your RE market supports that). Also, just some tips that aren’t universally true, but I’ve seen repeated – single family homes are a better resale than condos and you have full control over your property, which is invaluable. Beware of large condo complexes (unexpected assessments and too much similar stock makes resale harder). For a smaller building condo situation, know you’re going to need to get on with the HOA and that can be a nightmare.
Anonymous
Agree that you should get at least 2 bedrooms, preferably with two baths but 1 full and 1 1/2 bath would do too. In case you want to go the housemate option or rent it out in the future to people who want the housemate option.
I ended up with a 3-bed 3-full BA townhome, which was great for having a full time housemate and an extra guest bedroom & bath.
Anon
I think all of this is really good advice.
Anonymous
My cousin was you 10 years ago and she bought a condo, she still owns the condo and uses it as a rental property. The condo has doubled in value and has proven to be a great investment. She is currently pregnant and rents a house with her unemployed husband. They likely won’t buy a house anytime soon.
Yes to House
I’m single and currently on my 6th house (mostly because my jobs keep moving me, but also because I recently upgraded from a townhouse to a house with a backyard and pool) – I’m in medium COL cities (Texas), but also have been in VHCOL (Bay Area). I’m so glad I never waited for a partner because at 38, I’m not sure when there will be a partner and in the meantime I’m glad that I’ve had great places to live and actually made some money (quite a lot of money too!) off my real estate purchases.
The guidance I’ve always followed is that I can comfortably afford 3x my salary. Obviously with interest rates this low you can afford more, but I’ve been using that guidance since I bought my first house at 24, through all kinds of interest rates. That still allows me to comfortably pay real estate taxes and insurance and in case something goes wrong (two years ago I had to replace my A/C for $6K), as well as frequent international vacations and a very comfortable single lifestyle. This time around my house was a little more expensive than 3x my salary, but I made almost $100K off the sale of my last home, so I put down more than 20% on my current house to keep my monthly costs lower. Also, when you’re calculating, pay attention to your real estate taxes. Those can sneak up on you depending on where you live and be really high.
So my advice is buy the house that you think is comfortable and that you want, though perhaps not the $1M+ home since you could likely not afford that in-house or in government. And if in a couple of years you get a different job or a partner and the current house doesn’t work, sell the house. I sold my last house after owning it only about a year (relocated (again) for work) and it wasn’t the end of the world. Houses don’t have to be lifetime investments.
Anon
I will say that people overbuy and never over-rent, with one big BUT. If you stay single, you may be staying in the physical space that over time becomes much younger than you are, which can be a problem if your wind up like I did in BigLaw but living next to 20ish grad students who liked to party and fight loudly overnight. Ugh. I went with a small townhouse b/c I wanted one door to the outside and the risk of only one side of shared walls (end unit) with no one above or below me. It affected my job performance (I was renting a condo from an owner who had moved on, so I wasn’t locked in; I think that one of my neighbor’s parents had bought the place, so there was no chance that the neighbor would move away before I did).
And buy location if you can — something you could rent easily if you decided later the space wasn’t for you (or sell).
Anon
Do you want to buy a house?
Yes? -> Buy a house!
No? -> Keep renting!
Don’t overthink this.
Anon
I get this, but disagree. Buying a house can be a wealth building tool, and should be considered for that alone.
Anon
It can also be a black hole for your money. Outside of some very, very lucky folks who bought in the right place at the right time, a house is a really inefficient way to build wealth. It has huge commissions to sell, tons of maintenance, is illliquid, and much of the value is determined by factors outside of your control. We’re in a real-estate boom right now, but there are still places that never recovered from the Great Recession. I own a home there. Fortunately, I almost break even as an unintentional landlord, but it’s in no way, shape or form a good investment. I bought the house because I needed a place to live in that city at that time and the house met my needs. I don’t regret buying the house, but it certainly hasn’t been a wealth building tool.
Anon
Absolutely fair, and it’s totally market dependent. My point is that it can be – my experience and that of many people in my market was the opposite, and OP should think about it through that lens and not a “want to/don’t want to.”
Anonymous
It can be, or it can be a money pit. It’s not automatic. Trust me.
Anonymous
Yup. We’ve owned our house for more than 15 years, and the appreciation in value has been eaten up by all we’ve had to sink into it for maintenance.
Anonymous
My two pieces of advice are (1) if you want to buy a house, buy one and (2) buy a house that works for you now. I wanted to buy a house 5 years ago and I held off because all of the advice I got was “don’t buy until you’ll stay in a house for 5+ years” which required certainty I didn’t have. Now it’s five years later, and my life is exactly the same (same city, same husband, still no kids due to serious fertility issues) and I still don’t have a house.
We are looking now and are buying a house that works for us now. I would rather not stretch, and continue saving money which I can use to improve the house we buy if needed or buy a larger house later if we feel we need it.
Good luck! Most of my friends are single, and I’m actually the only still renting. My single friends love their homes and I’m very jealous.
Anonymous
I would run the numbers on renting the unit out. If something happens and you decide to move, if you can cover the expenses of the unit with a rental and are in a strong rental market, you should be fine.
Anon
I started with my monthly payment comfort level. If you’re expecting your income to change, you might adjust up or down, but if you’re going to be paying rent regardless, that’s a good place to start.
1) Figure out the all-in monthly payment I was comfortable with (basically my current rent + parking, plus a little extra)
2) Figure out a down payment I could reasonably afford while still having some savings for house projects and unexpected things.
3) Use an online calculator to see what that meant in terms of house budget. (Taking into account monthly expenses like property taxes and PMI and whatnot.)
4) Search in a few possible locations to see what that budget could get me
I decided to prioritize a townhouse or single family house because I hated my upstairs neighbors and didn’t want to deal with that permanently. I had to change my target locations slightly to be able to afford that on my budget, but that tradeoff felt okay. Had I not been able to find what I wanted in a reasonable location with a reasonable payment, then I would have taken that as a sign to keep renting for now.
Ribena
I’m single and bought by myself. I couldn’t afford 3+ bedrooms in the sort of central location I want to live in, so I instead focussed on choosing a flat that could serve my needs for the next 15+ years if I need it to. I bought from a couple, and it’s totally big enough to live here with someone else (although perhaps it would be a struggle for two people working from home without some refurbishment) – unlike many one-bedrooms it has a separate kitchen-diner and living room. I am pretty sure I don’t want kids (or at least not in the next five years) so didn’t worry about that.
I’ve been in two years now (yesterday was the two year anniversary of taking ownership!) and I’m planning to move on within the next 5ish years, either to a different location, or simply because this flat is going to be logistically very difficult to decarbonise (gas-fired central heating) and I see that affecting its value in 10 years’ time. So then I will face the same sort of questions of what to buy and where, but with the advantage of having built up a few years’ home equity.
(Caveat – I had access to extremely cheap home financing through my employer, so the calculation on buying was easy)
Emma
I bought a condo on my own after my divorce. I honestly don’t know if it was the wisest investment – I probably could have invested the money and rented and ended up ahead – but having a home of my own was a huge relief and make me feel stronger in a rough patch. I had so much fun decorating it exactly how I wanted. The condo was a good compromise for me as a single person – almost no maintenance, very secure building, etc. I also bought below capacity so I could survive a pay cut if needed. I will be moving to a house with my new spouse next month but will really miss my little bachelorette pad. I think the point is, buy if you want to, but don’t go nuts with the budget. If you life circumstances change, you can always sell, although ideally not in the next few years.
CountC
I am on house number two – both were purchased while single. I took some resale value characteristics into consideration, but otherwise, I bought for what worked for me in the present. It has worked out perfectly fine for me. I have never put down 20% and it has worked out fine for me. Now, I live in an LCOL area and am buying small houses (~$160k, 1300 sq ft with almost a 1/3 of an acre for comparison’s sake), so my PMI is always incredibly low and doesn’t affect my payment in a meaningful way. I bought my first house ten years ago and ended up making decent money on it, although I didn’t buy it as an investment. I did have to rent it out for a couple of years when I moved to another state to live with a bf, but that was fine (I would not want to be a landlord permanently). If I find a partner (I am trying), we will figure out the living situation when we need to. I try not to borrow problems that I don’t currently have while also being practical about the future – it’s definitely a balance!
SMC-San Diego
I bought my house as a single woman 20+ years ago in a HCOL city and it was the best financial decision I ever made, largely because (1) it has more than tripled in value; (2) I will have it paid off in a few years (I refinanced to a 15 year mortgage about 10 years ago); and (3) I bought a house built in the mid-80s, which means while I certainly have had some expenses (the big one being replacing the roof last year) my house has not been a money pit. I will retire with my house paid for. Most people I know who rent in my city end up having to move when they retire because their retirement income does not keep up with the rapidly raising rents.
I should note here that I make mid-six figures now and while the house felt like a stretch when I bought it it was well within what a mortgage broker would recommend. And my income has gone up while my housing costs (except for the extra $$ associated with going from a 30 year to a 15 year) has remained largely steady. I was never house poor.
So much of this depends on where you live, what you can get for a reasonable price, what the rental market looks like, and how much values have historically risen. Also, I wanted to have a kid (and did as a single parent) and really wanted to have the stability of having my own house while she was growing up.
Ellen
It is generally smart to buy, even if rates thereafter go down b/c you can always refinance Dad says. My dad got me into a coop when I got back to NY b/c I was renting a place with mice and roaches. A coop technically is not real estate — it is a stock, tho you live in an apartement that you own, so I am not sure why the difference. He pays the coop morgage out of my salary, and all of the other expenses also. I suposedly have some “equity” in my stock meaning I am not upside down b/c the value is greater then the morgage. All I know is that I own something, which is a good thing.
OP
Thank you to everyone for weighing in! Hearing from you all was really helpful (and comforting v. the churn of formless anxiety about this)!
Ness
My two mistakes regarding property,
as you I was waiting to buy my first place with “someone”, when I was 28 I had to do in my own anyway in order not to have to return a gob tax reduction I had for “first time buyers”. Expenssier than if I were have done when I had saved for my deposit but also, as you, I was worried with a single income about what could happen in the future. Recesion came I was able to manage in my own.
Second mistake, I bought a flat which size and neighborhood would be perfect for a couple alone or with one child following the advice of my family of “just in case” we were more in the future. Never happened and the mortage was bigger than if I were bouhgth a smaller place just for me.
I remember my boss at that time saying “Ness, you do not need to buy now your forever home, just the place that suit you in this momment, if you life change you could change places too.”
Lesson learned: A couple of years later I moved to London, where I rent a lovely apartment in a place perfect for me and my live in that moment.
Anonymous
Anyone affirmatively mad that others are getting the vaccine when yours will be in April or June or who knows when? Rationally I know this is wrong. Every shot moves us closer to the end of this pandemic. Yet if I see one more vaccine selfie — oh I’m a work from home psychiatrist but hey it’s healthcare; oh because my spouse is a dr so they snagged a few extra doses; oh because my best friend is a pharmacist and called so doses wouldn’t get thrown out. Or oh I’m group IB because I told them I have x, how will they know?? Notice how no dr or pharmacist with extra is calling the 85 year old or even 65 year old on their roster, they’re first calling their spouses/relatives/friends. And most of the major health systems are taking no responsibility here — yes patient you are high risk and need a shot but oh no we don’t offer them to the public, just our staff; this is the stance of lots of places from UPenn to Georgetown. So then the connection-less person who isn’t lying about a condition waits in line behind everyone else?!
So over this process. But hey all of you who’ve won the lotto and are now planning your spring vacations, congratulations.
Anonymous
I got the vaccine this week! I’m 18-64, I have a condition identified as high risk, and I got lucky and got an appointment. I’m sorry this enrages you that sounds like an awful way to live.
Anon
You are clearly not the target of the post. I believe that OP is talking about young healthy people who never took the virus all that seriously anyway and are skipping ahead of people with high risk conditions.
Anonymous
The OP would 100% look at me and think I’m a healthy young person. I look healthy. No one in my life knows of my condition.
I mean she can just live her life in rage whatever I don’t know her I don’t care. But I think this attitude is exhausting and toxic.
Anon
Again, it’s not about that. Health systems know which patients have high-risk conditions due to their electronica medical records. They may be disorganized, but that information is there. If they called you, great!! I am almost certain that OP would not begrudge a high-risk person getting the vaccine right now. I also have an invisible high-risk condition and I’m eagerly awaiting the vaccine. Maybe you could try a little compassion for those of us who weren’t so lucky as to get it early. You might feel “toxic” yourself staring down months off uncertainty about distribution after already living in full lockdown for almost a year.
Anonymous
Oh my goodness the martyrdom is strong today
Anon
And are EMR systems are not all interconnected. So your PCP, other doctors your see, health systems you have received care from, etc. have documentation of your preexisting conditions that does not mean that info is available to whoever is responsible for vaccine distribution.
Dahlia
No, all EMR systems are not connected. Your hospital or network has an EMR system and even if the hospital next door uses the same software (usually epic) it is NOT the same EMR system and they cannot view your records or information. There is no centralized system in America.
Anonymous
You got yours so who cares right? I too have a real health condition for which I see real specialists who like OPs drs are basically just saying — make sure you get the shot, how, shrug that’s your problem. And yes I also look young and healthy so you wouldn’t know I needed it. But congratulations — be sure to post that selfie!! What you don’t care to admit here if that you won something over lots of other people with real conditions too and are now gloating. But hey you got yours!
Anon
Yeah, I don’t think the gloating is a good look. You aren’t the only one with a high risk condition here…OP, I understand where you’re coming from, but I ultimately do think it will be better to just focus on how every young covidiot who jumps the line now will put us high-risk people at less risk moving forward.
Anonymous
Gloating?!? You’re out of your mind.
Anonymous
“Win something over others” what even? I used my state’s appointment system. I don’t owe you or anyone else an apology for being excited about getting the vaccine.
Anon
Nope, and the more excitement and social pressure that’s out there, the closer we get to herd immunity especially when so many people are nervous about getting the vaccine. Every person who gets a shot is a step closer to the end. Focus on the big picture.
Anon
I meant nope, you don’t owe anyone an apology for anything and keep that excitement going! (Just in case the nope was misinterpreted above)
Formerly Lilly
Yeah I see it less as gloating and more as “I’m doing my part”, at least for most people. I am missing most of a lung and have difficulty breathing on a good day. I have had Covid and was carelessly exposed by someone who knows my condition. It’s not looking likely that I’ll get the vaccine until well after the presumed period of immunity had expired for me, because my state is the kind of dumpster fire clusterf@ck where a republican controlled state legislature is actually considering penalizing schools that offer virtual learning. You can imagine how well they are rolling out the vaccine. There’s a lot I could rage about, on a daily if not hourly basis, but it just doesn’t seem productive, or healthy for me. And when people post their vaccine status, I may be jealous, but I also think “Good for you!”.
No Face
I don’t anyone here saying “I got mine who cares.” Nothing even remotely like that. I personally love vaccine selfies and hope people keep posting them. If seeing them upset you, take a social media break. I took a social media break because I got sick of seeing people I know party all the time and take vacations. It really helped.
Everyone with a serious health condition can’t get vaccinated at the same time, and plenty of people have non-visible health conditions that they don’t tell others about. I know several people who only told 2 or 3 people about their battles with cancer until they were out of the weeds. If they posted a selfie, you would be unjustly filled with rage at them. That is a you problem.
Dahlia
Just to give a bit of context to “gloating”- health providers who get the vaccine (at least in my state) are being asked to post about it, post videos, post photos, to show that as physicians we trust the vaccine and are choosing to get it ourselves. There are actually a lot of people turning down the vaccine which reduces our chance of herd immunity, and enthusiastic acceptance of the vaccine from health experts is supposed to make other people feel more confident in receiving it. Maybe all the selfies aren’t the best way to do it, but that’s at least what is being asked of us.
I am a front line provider and I have received the vaccine (I waited my turn while being exposed on a daily basis to COVID, seeing my colleagues, friends and patients get sick and die). I was terrified of infecting my husband and killing him. Many health providers lived away from their spouses and children for months because they were afraid of infecting them, since we were getting exposed all. the. time. Waiting sucked. I saw people whose primary function was administrative and who rarely see patients get the vaccine before I did. In order to be efficient they are vaccinating broad categories and that means some people get it earlier than might be truly ethical. However, the decision was made that it is more important to role it out rapidly than the break it into tiny categories and make sure no one accidentally gets it too soon.
I know this is hard. I was angry when I was waiting to get it. I don’t feel that it’s right that people who have the option of working from home and isolating get it before people who have no choice but to be exposed due to their essential status- but obviously some people would disagree with me, believing that age and co-morbidities should trump exposure risk. People are angry about prisoners getting vaccinated early in my state, even though covid has run rampant through the prisons. Any approach is going to feel unjust to some population. Just like the crisis standards of care and ventilators.
I feel like I’ve been angry for months- feeling like some kind of sacrificial lamb on the front lines. I know what it’s like to feel angry about this and I don’t blame you for a second.
But hope is on the horizon. It really is. If we can just last a little longer!!
Anon
I can see why you’re frustrated and I can agree that it’s really frustrating in some particular cases, even though we know every vaccinated person helps. I’m thinking about a distant relative who has partied all year long, already had Covid once, voted for Trump, held illegal parties during the surge to end all surges in our state, and then jumped to be first in line when the vaccine was offered to him a week ago. He’s a true jerk and always has been. You know what though? I want him to be vaccinated because he is clearly a danger to others and he will kill fewer people in 2021 than he surely did in 2020. That helps me feel a little bit better about it.
Anon
Also, I do believe that health systems have a moral responsibility to make sure “extra” doses are distributed equitably. They certainly shouldn’t be giving out vaccines only to their friends. I believe most are trying to do the right thing, though, and I haven’t heard of all that many cases where young friends and family are truly jumping the line.
Anonymous
Yes this. It’s actually quite hard! They get the doses they get, they cannot know for certain how many staff will take them, they have a limited amount of time between knowing they have extra and the clinic closing, so they call people they know can get there fast. I’d much rather they do this than worry about priorities and wind up wasting doses. It doesn’t make me mad that other people have good fortune. I am not enraged by someone else winning the lottery.
anonshmanon
I think this is the important thing to keep in mind. For the first two weeks of vaccines being available, we couldn’t even administer 100k each day, because the prioritization rules were too complicated. Our medical institutions and public health departments have worked super hard for 10 months and they are doing their very best.
If someone is lucky enough to get the shot earlier, I surely am envious, but not angry.
Cb
Yes, my dad got a vaccine this way. Loads of people opted out at my mom’s centre and the neighbouring centre and they called people who were able to hop in the car. They’re determined not to waste any doses, but if it’s 4pm and they are going to go in the garbage, I’d rather they vaccinate the highest number possible.
I’m annoyed that Kaiser still hasn’t called my 82 year old with a heart condition grandmother, mom has her on a list for their second round, if someone opts out.
Anonymous
They’re mostly not exercising their responsibility. It wouldn’t be hard for these big health system to run a query of charts in the offices of the specialists of particular high risk and keep that list. Heck sort it by address with the closest ones on top. Then at 3 pm the vaccine clinic realizes it closes at 4 and there were 3 no shows today — call any of those identified specialist offices and say call 3 ppl who’ll get here in an hour; it’s not a dr or nurse who has to work the phones here, it’s a receptionist and at this early stage I bet you have to call 4-5 people max to get 3 takers. But hey that’s a lot of work, better plan let’s call someone’s spouse instead.
Anon
You’re right. That shouldn’t be happening. I don’t think it is in most places though. Instead, I keep hearing about the elderly or high-risk people getting it at the last minute and that’s exactly how it should be. People who need it the most to get it, nothing gets wasted.
Anon
Do you work in health care? Because unless you understand the system and how it actually works in practice, I think you are making a lot of ungenerous assumptions about health care workers.
Anonymous
Yeah I think you’re just not steeped in reality here.
Anon
But people don’t answer the phone, they can’t get there in time, etc., who f-IGN cares, everyone needs it. Get it in the arms of whoever is around and don’t let it go to waste. I would not care if they grabbed people off the street or let their friends work down the hall to wait for the hope of an extra dose. Whatever. Get it in everyone. The sooner the better.
Anon
You have a very unrealistic view of the capability of the hospital’s EMR systems.
anonshmanon
All my neighbors are 70+ folk living in a large city (15 minute drive to the hospital) and I am sure if they got the call, only one of them could actually be there within an hour. Between finding their insurance card, arranging transportation, or just wrapping one’s head around a spontaneous hospital visit (some people are seriously mentally inflexible, but that’s a rant for another day), it’s not so straightforward.
Anon
I think this is a fantasy of how this works.
LaurenB
You seem to know very little about EMR. They cannot just “sort on health conditions” the way you seem to think.
I’m FAR more upset about people not wearing masks than I am about people getting vaccines. At least getting a vaccine helps; not wearing a mask hurts.
Anon
And keep in mind that in large part it is rolling down to hospitals/healthcare systems to figure this out. The same hospitals and staff that have been stretched to the breaking point for the past year. So yes it is not being rolled out perfectly, but look at the reality of the situation and give them a break,
Anonymous
Hospitals that are also simultaneously still caring for a lot of very sick people!
Anon
Full of workers who have to deal with all the same COVID-related issues the rest of us do, except they can’t WFH.
anonshmanon
You’re related to Ted Cruz?
Anon
More like a Trump loyalist ?
Anon
It feels random and that’s how I’ve decided to view it. Logistically evaluating every single individual for a place in line would take too long. Some (most) of this could have been avoided if a real federal government had been in charge, but we can’t go back in time and do it right. I’m just happy that it’s getting out there, especially given the vaccine refusers.
anon
+1. It’s not ideal, but it’s what we have. I have been so angry throughout the pandemic; I simply don’t have more emotion to spare on vaccine distribution.
No Face
Same. Even if there was a way to develop a system to order everyone (difficult and impossible), we certainly weren’t getting it at the federal government. The feds handed doses to the state, the state hands doses to entities and counties/cities, and chaos ensued.
To me, if is definitely most important to get as many vaccines in as many people as possible. I would much rather some random person get a shot than it going in the trash!
Anon
honestly i was at first as i too know wfh people in healthcare who’ve gotten it too. i will also have slightly earlier access bc i work at a university that is going to be getting enough doses for everyone, but live in a state which gives zero priority to teachers, grocery store workers, etc. i texted all my doctor friends that this feels beyond ridiculous to me, and that i’d be happy to wait longer to give it to one of those people…except as they pointed out me turning down my shot will not necessarily get it into those people’s arms, instead it could end up in the trash. it’s like as a kid, if someone told you to eat your dinner bc there are kids in africa without food…you eating/not eating your food had absolutely no bearing on the situation there. i am actually much much angrier at all the people out and about living their best lives, not properly wearing masks, social distancing, etc.
Anonymous
Yes agreed. Everyone should get the vaccine as soon as they can. And ignore angry people on the internet.
Is it Friday yet?
I work for a hospital system, wfh since March, and I got the vaccine last week. If I declined, as anon points out, there’s no way I could have given it to someone “more worthy” – like, there was no option for me to defer and give the vaccine that I got to my mid-70s dad with heart disease instead. Someone in our system also made the point that the back end staff is just as important for the system’s function as the clinical staff is – if there’s no one to draft contracts, how do we buy anything, or bring in additional staffing for our ICUs, or make sure equipment is serviced, etc. I only had the opportunity to schedule well after invitations had gone out to all clinical staff (we were sorted into high, medium, low risk), and I waited a few days after getting my invite because I felt like I am the lowest of the low priority group. And you bet I posted a selfie – we were encouraged to because there’s a lot of hesitancy, even among our clinical staff (when I scheduled, only 40% of the entire system had either gotten or scheduled to get!). They even had a hashtag and a selfie board you could hold up with the hospital and system name on it. My caption wasn’t to gloat, it literally said, hey I’ve been hearing a lot of hesitancy, but it’s safe and I want to encourage everyone to get it as soon as they have access. I hope no one took it as gloating, but if they did, that’s on them, and not on me, because I’m pretty sure that everyone else would have gotten the vaccine in my position, no need to be a martyr.
Anon
You know, I’m glad you got it and I’m even fine with the selfies to break through hesitancy, but calling people who are frustrated that they haven’t gotten a lucky break like you did a “martyr” feels needlessly cruel. Try a little compassion. It doesn’t cost you anything.
Anonymous
Nope that’s not what she said. She said she’s not called to martyr herself and decline the vaccine. Try reading comprehension
Anon
It’s actually an ambiguous sentence, but whatever.
Is it Friday yet?
It was meant as anon at 11:03 said – I didn’t feel like I personally needed to be a martyr and decline, for the reasons I gave above. I was not saying that people who don’t have access are being a martyr (isn’t not having access when you want it like the opposite of being a martyr here?). I’m definitely sympathetic to everyone’s frustration and am well aware that I’m lucky – clearly this is a sensitive topic but please don’t jump to the conclusion that I’m ragging on people who are quite reasonably upset that they haven’t gotten access yet!
Anonymous
I’m glad you got it because everyone who gets it helps herd immunity, but I think even you can see that it’s hard for high-risk people to see someone who is not high-risk (right? based on your previous posts) get it SO quickly when you’ve been WFH since March and you already had COVID and you live an active lifestyle/haven’t been locked down for your own safety. So it goes, but I think a little understanding on your part wouldn’t go amiss. All that being said, I’m glad that you got it and I hope we are all out of this nightmare soon.
Is it Friday yet?
Sorry, but I don’t see how I’m not being understanding? Like, I pointed out that if I could have I would have given mine to my high-risk father (who lives in the same household as my grocery store employee brother and so who cannot completely lock down and who I am very worried about) and happily waited for mine, but unfortunately, that wasn’t an option. Regarding my active lifestyle – it’s all outdoor activities and was mostly over the summer/fall when the case rates here were low. I’m masking, distancing, haven’t gone to a single party or eaten indoors, haven’t traveled anywhere at all since February, and am now mostly sitting alone on my couch playing my Switch and going slowly insane from lack of human contact. I also think the rollout is a frustrating mess, but my point was really that anyone else in my shoes would have likely done the same and gotten vaccinated, and posting to encourage people to also get it when they have access wasn’t gloating because I also just want this nightmare to end.
Anonymous
Sorry, Is it Friday Yet – I also read your previous post as telling people “not to be martyrs.” I read it as you were telling them to stop the suffering Olympics like someone else was saying on the thread. I see now that it’s not what you meant and that you are already being understanding. I appreciate you acknowledging that others are frustrated though.
Is it Friday yet?
Thanks – if there were an edit function I would change my original post to read “no need *for me* to be a martyr” to clarify, ah well. This whole situation sucks for everyone, just in different ways, and I certainly don’t want to minimize or belittle anyone who’s having a tough time. It’s absolutely reasonable to feel jealous and frustrated, but I think that should be directed at the disastrous rollout, and not assuming people who have followed the rules and happened to get earlier access are gloating about it. I really hope everyone can get vaccinated ASAP!
Anon
No, every single shot is one step closer to the end. I’ve won plenty of lotteries in my life and I’m okay with how the chips fall here.
Anon
I’m one of those people. Received an extra dose that would have otherwise been thrown out. I don’t know what to say. I understand your frustration but you would have made the exact same decision in my shoes. This whole thing is hard.
Anonymous
You got yours so please go ahead and gloat.
Anon
Jealousy is a disease. Get well soon.
cara
Wow. Y’all are all lawyers and such right? Grown adults? People’s bosses? Think you’re real cool? And you’re complete jerks on the internet.
Anon
Lawyer, grown adult, a boss and definitely real cool.
OP asked about the situation. I acknowledged her frustration, but this is life – any of us would take the vaccine if given the chance especially when it would have gone to waste. (FWIW, I did not post any vaccine selfies, we did call around to see if we knew any high risk people who could get there in time, and I still plan to socially distance, mask up and stay home when possible.) She decided to double down on bitterness. What response were you looking for here?
Best wishes for a speedy recovery to you as well, cara.
Anon
Gloat away and post away and thank you for getting the vaccine! You’re doing your part to end this!
Anonymous
Yes! My healthcare system encouraged all of us to share. They aren’t worried about bitter people on the internet, they’re worried about vaccine hesitancy. And seeing people you personally know enthusiastically getting a vaccine is proven to reduce vaccine refusal.
Bonnie Kate
Agreed! All the vaccine selfies are getting a big thumbs up from me because of all the people I know in my life who are very hesitant to get it. We need them to get it to get herd immunity, and so we’re going to have to normalize it – seeing selfies from people who they know getting it does that. Gimme all the hop-on-the-vaccine-bandwagon selfies.
Anonymous
This is just so nasty
Anon
the suffering Olympics continues…
Senior Attorney
“Gloat?” I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Anonymous
Good for you! One step closer for all of us thanks for doing your part.
Abby
100% agreed. In a lot of circumstances in my state, there are vaccines that might be wasted. I would prefer them to call the millions of elderly or high risk individuals to get it, but for some reason it’s not organized well. I can’t see anyone else making a different decision, since you don’t know when you’d get the chance again anytime soon.
Anonymous
Yes. But I know an inordinate number of people related to doctors while I am not. Those people are also the bragging type so rather than quietly getting it, it’s a whole production with selfies, #blessed, and omg where should we go on vacation because now we can travel. My friends who don’t know these sorts of people aren’t mad at all — they’re more like yeah look people always use wealth and connections but eh it’s NBD, it’s not like there are SO many people like that. I wish I wasn’t seeing these pictures, I’d be more zen.
Anon
Oh my goodness – just unfollow them then
Anonymous
Then. Stop. Seeing. Them. You control your social media.
Anon
You know what? Posting vacation plans after getting the vaccine is GOOD – it reminds people this can end once there’s herd immunity. It might encourage someone on the fence to get it. Post away, get those shots whenever you can.
Anon
Ugh no. Hard disagree. It’s not the time yet. Vaccines are not a golden ticket to freedom.
Anon
See above. Reducing vaccine refusal is a thing. Post away.
Anon
I think this is only true once a certain number of people can get the vaccine. There are enough people who are “over COVID” who are traveling and engaging in riskier activities, and who are not yet able to get vaccinated, that I don’t think anyone needs to be promoting travel, etc., even with the vaccine. Same reason I don’t think vaccinated people should be going to stores without masks on.
LaurenB
Then the issue isn’t really “they jumped in line to get the vaccine.” The issue is that they think the vaccine is a get out of jail free card. Responsible people who get vaxed are not really changing their lives – they are still masking, social distancing, avoiding unnecessary travel, etc.
Lilau
Honestly, this is a really selfish way to think about it. From my perspective, after mike pence, of all people, got vaccinated im not putting value judgment on who is more worthy. No one you’re talking about is less worthy than that guy.
I honestly don’t care if I am personally the last person in America to be offered one. Every dose in every arm makes us all safer. I hate that people here are telling others that it’s somehow wrong to accept one when it’s offered. The tragedy is in the waste.
Folks here likes to say that the pandemic has highlighted how ignorant and selfish people are, and that’s true. But it’s not just the anti-mask crowd who is selfish. Were covid only a risk to my health, I’d be “living my best life” as the folks here say. But it’s not, so I’ve voluntarily curtailed my life. I’m neither risk adverse nor selfish so my behavior looks like a risk-adverse person’s. If you’re willing to stay home out of fear for yourself, but angry you’re not higher on the vaccine list so you can resume your life, you’re kind of the opposite: fearful for your own safety and don’t give a darn about others.
I’m sorry if this is coming off harsh, but my point is we’ve dressed up selfish fear like altruism for so long that folks like you are a year into this thing and don’t get obligation to the common good aspect yet. Please be patient.
Anon
Agree with all of this.
anon
Where I am losing patience is not due to my own chances, but due to the fact that I’m seeing people with connections who I know not to be high-risk (and trust, me, in some cases I know this with complete certainty because these are my relatives) getting vaccinated while my family who are almost 80, medically fragile, etc. can’t even get appointments. The system is completely broken in my state (GA) and while I can easily wait given that I’m young and healthy, the elders I know can’t.
Anonymous
I agree with this. It’s easy to just write people off as “jealous haters,” but that completely minimizes the suffering of high-risk individuals and their elderly relatives who have already suffered so much this year. If you don’t fall into those categories and you think people are just haters, I would suggest you simply don’t understand that fear and depression and aren’t trying to.
Lilau
My parents are older and my grandmother is 96. They are also having trouble getting a vaccine appointment. I get it.
I lost someone to lockdown related depression/substance abuse this year. I get it.
I’d really love to introduce my daughter to her great grandmother when she is born in a few months. I get it.
I’d like to have my husband by my side when I’m in labor. I get it.
But i still believe in everyone’s obligation to the common good. I still think it’s selfish to decide the people I love and care about are somehow more worthy than the OP’s family or anyone else’s. Every dose in every arm makes everyone I love safer. Older folks who no longer work should be staying home until a critical mass of the population is vaccinated anyway. We were always staying home for the safety of others, were you? Or were you were staying home for the safety of you and yours?
It’s short sighted to focus on the individual vaccination of those individuals we love instead of widespread vaccination which, again, helps everyone and is the only way out of this.
anon
Lilau, I honestly wish I could be where you are on this emotionally. I really do. I would be happier. But in my case this isn’t (as someone said below) “privileged people complaining about other privileged people.” I’m watching people pull strings and work connections to get shots that they are not eligible for under my state’s prioritization, while my pastor just lost her second brother to COVID. I’m a Black woman in the SEUS and I know only one person in my community who has managed to get vaccinated. It’s like – same old story, maybe if I was a white doctor’s wife’s cousin I’d be able to get vaccinated, but instead I’m going to another zoom funeral for a Black man who marched with MLK.
Anonymous
Anon, I’m really sorry. I hear you and I think your opinion is 100% important and valid.
Lilau
Anon,
I only got here through a deep, deep bout with depression loss. Through sorting feelings of what felt morally “right” and what my obligations are to my fellow men and women.
All that is to say that your feelings, regarding medical injustice and inequity around race are completely valid. The racial disparities in this country and around the pandemic are absolutely real, and in that sense I share your frustration and anger.
That anger is not the same, and never will be, the same as just being mad that someone else got their vaccine first. I apologize as I conflated the two.
I will not and do not ask you to somehow swallow your justified anger at one more aspect of racial injustice.
Anon
I find it interesting that you know the entire health records of your relatives. My brother is high risk and outside our parents, me and his wife, literally no one else in our family knows this so again, not sure why you are so insistent on your certainty. As lots and lots of other posters have pointed out, every shot in an arm is a good thing – focus on that
Kitten
+1. My state is one of the worst states as far as administering vaccines and the majority of our vaccines are sitting around in refrigerators. It is maddening. At this point I don’t care who they give the vaccines to.
Anonymous
Yes I am. To the point where as a high risk person with specialists and everything I’m not even going to try. It’s not worth the constant frustration when you can’t get an appointment and drs office basically won’t even answer questions and just repeat the stock line of sorry we aren’t giving it, and then so and so that knows someone gets it. I’ve been super serious for nearly a year re never going out except once in 3-4 weeks, masks etc but oh well. Time to live life.
Anonymous
Same. I have actual heart disease and my Ivy League cardiologist basically shrugged. I have zero connections. I’m high risk so I can’t stop by pharmacies nightly to see what’s left as I think that’s a higher risk. So yeah I’m doing nothing. Maybe the 100 FEMA centers Biden says will open by the end of Feb (with what supply exactly?) may be of help. I’m in Virginia and willing to drive 2-4 hours so hopefully that’ll be in driving range of some center someplace that’ll give me an appointment. In the meantime I’m really staying off social media – seriously vaccines are the new vacations and luxury cars right now.
Anonymous
Your cardiologist does not have vaccine to give you.
No Face
Every place is different, but in my area we register for vaccines at the county level and they contact you. The specialist doctors wouldn’t have any information about the vaccination process.
emeralds
Yes, that is pretty much how it works in VA (unless you’re in one of the 1A groups, which are basically health care workers and long term care residents/staff).
Dahlia
Yeah I’m a specialist and I have no access to the vaccine and no way to help my patients get it.
I also have no way to help my husband or my elderly parents get it. I don’t know anyone who has the ability to pull strings. Not sure who these people are who are getting it just because they are a doctors wife or whatever- I don’t see any way that would happen in my hospital. It’s all very strictly regulated.
Maybe pharmacists or nurses who administer the vaccine if there are a couple of doses left in opened vials at the end of the day? I guess? That’s a pretty small group and that would only be a few doses at most. I agree if the vial is expiring in 15 mins just get it in an arm. There’s no way to prioritize in that situation- can you imaging trying to call a list of people who are then expected to answer, immediately jump up their cars, drive in, park and get into the clinic within 15 minutes? And they are elderly and sick people, for whom that task would be even more difficult? And then what do you do if its one minute left and they aren’t there yet?
I can’t speak for the process in other states, of course, but the vast majority of health providers here got administered their one dose in the vaccine clinic and have zero access otherwise.
emeralds
In Virginia you need to go through your health district not your PCP or specialist, so you might want to look at their registration requirements if they haven’t already. They should have an info page.
In the meantime, I’m glad to hear that you’re staying off social media if that’s what you need to do for your mental health. Personally, I am glad every time I see someone post about getting a vaccine–maybe it’s selfish, but my husband is a health care worker so that’s one less person out there who could kill him if they end up in his clinic. (Fortunately, the system worked as it was supposed to for him, so he’s gotten his first vaccine and has his second scheduled.)
emeralds
Also, personal experience for Anonymous–my mom is 65+ so eligible for wave 1B, which is where you would likely land with an an underlying condition. She registered through the health department as directed, has gotten a confirmation that she’s eligible, and is waiting for them to contact her with her vaccination slot. I know some other 1B folks in similar situations, and from a scan of state-level news, there are definitely health districts that have started on their 1B vaccinations.
Anonymous
This is just absurd. You’re going to just start risking getting covid? You’d rather die of covid than continue waiting and trying for the vaccine? I hope you can get help for this.
AnonMPH
I understand that this is frustrating but what exactly has led you to believe that you are supposed to already have access? No state has opened eligibility to high risk people under 65 yet as far as I know. Just because you are high risk and should have higher priority over me, someone who has no known risk factors, doesn’t mean you were scheduled to get it already!? The vaccine rollout has been slower than we’d like, but fundamentally the problem is still that we DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH SHOTs. DC has opened to 65+ in the last week or so and they are able to give out a couple of thousand appointments a week. They are gone in seconds. People who are eligible are not able to register. This is how it works when something is scarce. Moderna and Pfizer will continue to churn out more than 10 million doses every week, those will get divvied out to the states every week, and the states will give them out as fast as they can, which is getting faster every day. Yes, it’s unfair that some people are getting to jump the line. But the scale of line jumpers is so much smaller than the sheer number of people over 65 who need shots that I think you are really misplacing your anger here.
Anonymous
Wow no actually tons of states have!
AnonMPH
Oh really?! I thought dropping down to 65+ was the widest that states have gone. Which ones have expanded to <65 with at risk conditions? Genuinely curious.
AnonMPH
And to clarify, I know some states are moving into some other essential worker categories. But I really haven’t heard of anyone going below age 65 for general population, no matter the risk conditions. There are just so many people over the age of 65 that it’s a huge hurdle to get through.
Anonymous
New Jersey and Texas, off the top of my head.
Anon
Missouri as well.
Anon
My university is vaccinating retirees who are >65 ahead of its police force, janitorial staff and others who must work on site. Yeah, I’m a tad salty about that.
Anon456
I legitimately do not care. I have no energy left to spend on this. Just everyone get the vaccine however you can. If you are going to skirt the process you have questionable ethics and are likely not taking distancing and all that seriously, and are part of the problem. For that reason I want you to have it now. I can behave for another 3-4 months.
I also strongly encourage folks to recall that many things are not obvious. My sister has a pacemaker, full paced, and is 36 and does triathalons. She doesn’t tell people about her pacemaker so you’d never know she was high risk and is getting it next week. Have a little grace. Get in line, and be patient. Everyone. We’ve done enough finger pointing and virtue slinging in the last year. I’m over it and I just want everyone vaccinated.
BeenThatGuy
This. PREACH!
emeralds
Yup.
Anon.
This.
Anon
What about this for an actionable suggestion: if any of you get a call to skip the line and you are not high-risk in any way, could you suggest a high-risk friend or family member take your place? Obviously it would be better for you to get it before adults gets thrown out, but if there are still six hours until that happens, that’s more than enough time to find someone more in need within your own personal social network and suggest that they get it instead. I know a lot of you have been really generous to friends and family and maybe this would be a great way to help pay it forward one more time.
Anon
*before a dose gets thrown out.
Anon
I think that this “OMG we thawed it and now the clock is ticking and we don’t dare waste it” happens quite a bit. It’s kind of the kill-the-keg mentality, but in a good way. Do random people get it this way? Yes, definitely. It all adds to the herd immunity and gives you more “Jim in his 20s who works in the hospital cafeteria got it and how he feels safer on his bus commute and with his 2 roommates and isn’t worried he will get it at work;” also, he can tell more random people it wasn’t that bad and they may be more open to getting it.
I do think that the bulk go to people who are targeted.
Is it Friday yet?
Jim in his 20s who works in the hospital cafeteria is actually prioritized (and should be), as is anyone who works in a hospital setting. He’s below those actually working directly with patients, but not lumped with the general populace, as he’s definitely at risk of exposure (as are custodians, security guards, etc.). But like, yeah, if it’s thawed and going to go bad, give it to whoever is there and can get it! Herd immunity FTW!
Abby
This is my plan, my parents don’t seem to be scheduled to get vaccinated until March at the earliest, if by any chance I get offered one, I’m sending one of them, if not both in my place.
Anonymous
It doesn’t work that way. In our state / health system if you send someone else they will be turned away.
Abby
I’m saying if I get offered one because I have friends & in laws in the health system who can give me a call if they have 10 doses that will otherwise go to waste. It’s using connections and opportunities that might arise, but to help my parents first.
Anon
A friend of mine actually did this. She works at an agency with a lot of connections and there was a group email that went out saying 10 people didn’t show for their appointments, so the first 10 people to get to the pharmacy in 30 mins could get vaccinated. She called her 70-year-old FIL who was able to get there in time.
Anonymous
Your friend is a great person.
Thanks, it has pockets!
It depends on the window of time. If there’s six hours I’d probably ask them to give me a second to poke around social media to see if any of my high-risk friends want it. If the window is more like an hour, unless I can think of someone off the top of my head *and* produce a phone number, I’m accepting the shot and heading right over.
Anon
This post is very reflective of the toxic culture in the United States. Instead of focusing on getting vaccinations done, we want to judge whether the recipient deserves it or not.
Anon
I think it’s more reflective of the dismal state of healthcare and rampant inequality, actually. I don’t blame the individual for that.
Anon
But overall these are not complaints about health inequities. It is complaints from relatively privileged people complaining that other more privileged people got the vaccine before they dis.
Anonymous
I don’t agree – it’s complaints from high-risk people, who are not equal to non-high-risk-people, that the allocation isn’t fair or ethical.
Anon
If your high risk but able to work from home you are already very much privileged
Anonymous
Yes but as someone with a high risk condition who still can’t get it, I’ve basically checked out. I’m not going to work this hard for a vaccine. I too am waiting to see if FEMA makes any difference.
Anonymous
See this is what we CAN’T have happen and this is what happens when you make a system too frustrating and people view it as unfair. They say – why bother.
anon
My 75-year-old parents are almost at this point. They don’t have the energy to keep making calls, keep trying registration systems that crash or are immediately full, keep researching which counties in our state will serve anyone vs. which only serve residents…it’s an enormous burden of time for people who are older, tire easily, and aren’t tech-savvy. I’m trying to help but I can’t spend literal hours daily researching and making calls either.
AnonMPH
It’s very frustrating, but most states only opened to 75+ in the last week or two, and have not had nearly enough vaccines delivered to schedule appointments yet for everyone in this category. I’m a bit confused why people would be ready to throw up their hands already when we just JUST moved on from the phase where only healthworkers were eligible? If Biden is able to do 100 million shots in 100 days like he’s promising, your 75 year old parents will definitely have the opportunity to participate. Would it be great if its less than 100 days from now? Sure. But I think we can all agree that a month or two is not as bad as the 10 months we’ve endured so far.
anon
They’re old, and tired, and complicated logistics like this are hard for them is why. It is a trainwreck in my state – the county losing appointments, publishing hotlines that then ring busy for hours, etc. They’re not throwing up their hands but their ability to muster the energy to try ever.single.day. is dwindling. And my state made a big announcement several weeks ago that we were open to 65+, so they suddenly had this hope that the isolation would end and they could finally meet their first grandchild. Surely you can understand why this is hard and frustrating for elderly people in that situation.
Anonymous
Same re high risk + not even trying. I have no great hopes for FEMA either because it’ll be the same crashing websites etc. Yeah maybe set up the process do the people who need it the most – elderly, high risk etc – don’t just give up.
Anon
All over this thread today, but THIS is how it’s done. These workers are awesome.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Adventist-Health-Ukiah-hospital-vaccine-COVID-15847234.php
Anonymous
Yes!! I loved that story.
Walnut
Love this! I want to see more news like this.
anon
Yeah, I know a not high risk 42-year-old woman who got it by lying (her best friend is married to a doctor, his hospital offered vaccination for anyone in the household, and they said she was a relative who lived with them).* Meanwhile my 75-year-old parents can’t get an appointment despite weeks of trying and have been hermits for almost a year. It is deeply frustrating.
*I know with 100% certainty that she does not have any high risk condition due to the nature of our relationship, and also know with 100% certainty that she does not live with these people. Just to foreclose those comments.
Anonymous
Wow. Whatever else, that woman is not a nice person. Let me guess, now she’s planning spring break 2020 in Cancun? She’s ditching the mask?
anon
I am just trying to tell myself that at least it reduces societal risk in some way but I will admit that I cried from frustration when I heard, bc I’d just spent 30 minutes on hold trying to confirm the health department at least had my parents on the waiting list, only to be told that they have no way of checking.
The bad thing is that now I’m wondering if I should lie and say my parents live with me, because my county has more supply. When you see others cheat you start to wonder if you should cheat too. My mom is fragile and we have no connections who can help us.
And yes, this woman was already going to the spa, getting her hair done, and traveling for girls weekends regularly. I found out she got her vaccine when she sent an email about the indoor basketball league she’s organizing. I’m really trying not to dwell but it’s hard.
LaurenB
But the part that’s bothering you is that she’s now doing All the Things, which just because one is vaxed doesn’t mean one needs to do. Would you feel differently if she were “good” about masking, distancing etc?
Anon
Still don’t care. Life isn’t perfectly fair. One step closer. (And I have zero connections and will likely be last to get it)
Anon
No. I am affirmatively mad at anyone in healthcare refusing to get the vaccine. My mom works in a nursing home and she reported that 70% of the Staff DID NOT take the vaccine, despite multiple outbreaks there. Those are the people we should be mad at. Everyone else is just contributing to a higher vaccination rate as a population, which Dr. Fauci would agree is a good thing.
Anon
I do get mad about this sometimes and am also very jealous. I wish I didn’t have those emotions, but I do. My state publishes how many doses are available vs. how many have been administered every day, and it is very frustrating to see evidence that it is going very slowly here, AND that seemingly random people are lucking into it. I am fine with my place at the end of the line in theory, but I guess it’s hard to cope with when it’s just another example of “who you know,” which is also how most people here get good jobs and lots of other advantages. I am taking a social media break to deal with this and am using other strategies (including reminding myself that anytime someone gets vaccinated, it is good for society and that I would take it in a heartbeat if offered). We can’t necessarily help how we feel or our first thought on something, but I’m using my best coping strategies to not let it affect my life too negatively or to lose sight of the real goal, which is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.
Anon at 10:45
Adding the caveat that I am much more angry with the system that led to this than the individual people. I would get it if it were offered to me, so I do not begrudge anyone who says yes to an extra dose or whatever. Desperately hoping that the rollout starts going faster soon because I think that will help with my anxiety of feeling like I’m just literally never going to get it because it’s going so slowly. If it needs to be an annual shot, at the rate it’s going in my state, the first groups will need it again before I have a chance to get it.
PolyD
You know, I think it’s totally okay for us to feel angry and frustrated at the uneven way vaccine distribution seems to be happening. I mean, I try to be happy that everyone vaccinated means one step closer to a more normal life, but I’m human – I’m jealous.
That doesn’t mean I spend hours and hours seething with jealousy, but I acknowledge that I do feel frustrated. This has been a hard year for all us humans. Let us feel the anger and jealousy and do a little venting, and then move on as best we can.
Plus it would be nice if the more saintly among us here could maybe wait a beat before cudgeling people who express totally normal frustration.
Anon
This is the best post on this thread. Thanks, PolyD.
Anon at 10:45
Yes, exactly. I wish I had the ability to only feel non-selfish emotions after being so worn down by this whole experience, but that just isn’t realistic.
Anonymous
Preach! I think there’s this misconception here that people who come to vent on this site are living their entire lives in a fit of jealous rage, neglecting their jobs and family and friends for the sake of hating others and rubbing their hands like a cartoon villain. That’s not at all true. People come here to post a 30-second vent so they can get out their normal frustrations in a “safe space” that doesn’t bring down their family members and friends. Instead of beating them up for it, why not offer a kind word or if you simply can’t that day, just collapse the thread?
Anon
Or how about those people take a walk? Why pollute the internet with the negativity? This site being a dumping grounds for everyone’s negative thoughts has made me abandon it for months at times, especially last year, when it was just constant suffer olympics…
PolyD
Anon at 12:23 – well, gee, I guess if we didn’t “pollute the internet with negativity” there’d be more room for porn?
Anon
So, PolyD, your argument is that at least the constant negativity is better than porn?!?!
Anonymous
She did use the words “affirmatively angry,” which suggests she is spending a fair amount of energy stewing on this.
PolyD
Anon at 2:05 – depends on the porn.
I just always find it funny when people try to police what the internet is for. Like ban all negativity, and we’d pretty much have porn. Ban all porn and all we’d have is websites saying, Bring back the porn.
Anon
Some of these commenters are not expressing normal frustration. They seem to be playing Monday morning quarterback – accusing health care workers who have been exhausted by the pandemic of squirreling away vaccines for their undeserving friends. And lashing out at people unnecessarily.
Anonymous
Vaccinating anyone is a net public good so I’m all for it. Putting value and morals on any individual life is kind of uncomfortable, because honestly who is to judge? Where I am regular old folks (ie seniors without any health conditions who live independently) come after social workers/cops/bus drivers and its been controversial but honestly I just don’t get it, Grandma can stay at home when none of those professions can. I bring that example up just to highlight how tricky it is to balance the interests of everyone, we should just be happy that the vaccination numbers are rising every day.
Anonymous
We just need to vaccinate everyone much more quickly, I really believe. My primary care doctor has not been vaccinated yet because he has found a lot of routine primary care work can be done via telemedicine given the circumstances, because he has plenty of PPE for when meeting with a patient is important, because he feels he’s not on the frontlines of the pandemic, and because he thinks anyone at risk from age should be getting it before him.
I honestly don’t entirely agree with his ethical analysis! He’s kept us out of the hospital enough times before that I feel protecting even a younger, healthier healthcare worker from illness helps the entire healthcare system bear the burden of the pandemic.
But I do think that there would be a lot less guilt and anxiety over the distribution if it had all been handled better and more consistently with the goal of saving lives (vs. other kinds of “fairness” or vs. reopening goals) as the clear priority.
anonshmanon
I am pretty sure that the CDC priority recommendations (which my state has adopted) is entirely based on saving lives. Hospital workers need to be protected so they can save everyone else’s lives, then older people because they get hospitalized the most. Then everyone else. I don’t think they even touched ‘fairness’. That’s a debate we’re having on the sidelines, and one that you can’t really find a definitive answer to. Yes, my 90 year old neighbor with a lung condition is probably at greatest risk, but given that she has been housebound for years, her past year hasn’t actually been so different. So is it really fair that she should get it before a middle-aged bus driver? You could come out on either side of this.
Anon
I believe the prioritization is keeping ICU beds free, so those most likely to take one are higher on the list.
Anonymous
Wow, really? I LOVE LOVE LOVE seeing people post their vaccine selfies. I think it normalizes the vaccine for people who are having hesitations. It gives people hope that the vaccine is getting out there. Only idiots are getting vaccinated and planning a spring break (eyeroll at the idiots).
Anon
No, I am not mad and don’t care. Effectiveness remains to be seen at this point anyway so I don’t consider it a free pass.
Anonymous
Wow no this is not true. Effectiveness has been proven. Please do not spread misinformation.
Anon
No, it has not. They do not know if people who get the vaccine can still be carriers. Also, the way the trials were conducted does not prove efficacy. The high percentages you see are people who got the vaccine and happened not to get COVID. They did not give the vaccine and then expose people to COVID to see if it was effective in preventing COVID.
They are hoping it is effective, but only time will tell. People who get the vaccine do not have a free pass to go about as they please mask free.
Educate yourself.
Dahlia
Yes, the vaccine trials did show efficacy.
This is how preventative studies are done in medicine. We can’t expose people to COVID as a test (just like we can’t give people cancer, or HIV, or any of the other diseases we treat).
They didn’t “happen to not get COVID.” Use of the vaccine reduced the rate of COVID in the vaccinated group compared with the control group.
You are mixing up a lot of different information. Yes, we don’t know if you can still be a carrier after vaccination. This hasn’t been studied. Yes, you still need to wear a mask. Yes, you still need to take all the precautions.
But good research studies have shown that the vaccine is effective in reducing your person risk of symptomatic COVID infection.
Anon
Maybe this will help: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/health/covid-vaccine-95-effective.html
Anon
Nope, not at all. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very anxious to get it. But anybody getting the vaccine is helping the overall problem.
Anonymous
No, I am not mad. Every person who gets the vaccine and is posting about it is helping us all get to social acceptance of the vaccines which will also help us get to herd immunity. We need everyone’s help, including that of totally annoying influencers, to get where we need to be.
anon
In a perfect world yes this would all be done more equitably but in a perfect world, we also would have had a better/sooner lockdown and wouldn’t be in this position, all kids would have access to high quality education and jobs wouldn’t be influenced by your parents connections but we don’t live in the world. It’s unfair but I personally can’t do anything to centralize our entire healthcare system to allow for more equitable distribution so for now I’m focusing on the positive of more people vaccinated is good for us all. I also personally appreciate people posting vaccine selfies – please glamorize and normalize getting it to drown out the anti-vaxxers
Anonymous
Ugh, I understand the frustration. I have an invisible condition that puts me in the high risk category. I am in a number of online groups related to my condition and people in all kinds of other states (all across the country) are getting vaccinated this month. I am looking at late spring at the earliest in my state (not VA) for no good reason. It’s so frustrating that the system in my state is so broken.
Anon
Nope. A rising tide lifts all boats. Herd immunity is good. Wearing a mask protects others. Now is not the time to be selfish.
(And yes, I’m high risk and nowhere near being offered a vaccine so will carry on with my hermit life)
Thanks, it has pockets!
Is anyone actually planning a spring vacation just because they got the vaccine early? Seems reckless, if that’s happening. Doctors still don’t know the extent to which it prevents you from giving the virus to others, but there are some concerning mutations popping up. The guidance right now is to continue practicing social distancing and mask wearing until we achieve herd immunity, so people getting the vaccine early aren’t necessarily (or at least shouldn’t be) “getting out of jail early” while the rest of us sit at home and stare longingly out the window.
I’m just happy any time I see someone getting the vaccine, and it doesn’t make sense to waste my energy getting worked up over who does and doesn’t “deserve” to get it right now. I don’t need it right now, and getting it early would be convenient but wouldn’t really impact how I live my life right away so it doesn’t matter if I get it now or in June.
Anon
Yes, I know people personally who are planning vacations already, many of them healthcare professionals (as they’re the majority of folks who are vaccinated so far). I don’t begrudge anyone a vacation, but I do think it’s irresponsible to post pics of said vacations on social media because it just heightens the sense of “YAY COVID IS OVER” for a subset of people who haven’t been taking very stringent precautions.
Anon
I think that is exactly what is happening. I hope the vaccine is effective as much as anyone else, but no proof that it is yet. People are using it as an excuse to go mask free and return to normal life and ignoring the reality.
Coach Laura
I’ve spent 10+ hours trying to get my 88 year old parents their shots. They’re outside of Seattle and our state health department is useless. I’ve called or gone online to every clinic, hospital and pharmacy in four – 4! – surrounding counties. I may have lucked out getting them on a waiting list at one hospital that is now having a pop up clinic sponsored by Amazon on Sunday. Crossing my fingers. My dad has more comorbidities than he has fingers…cancer x3 (metastasized melanoma, kidney and lung), kidney disease, asthma, high blood pressure, AFIB and recurring infections.
I’m considered to be in the current 1b group by the CDC but our governor thinks he knows more than the CDC and has put cancer survivors like me and people with diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease etc all below, in not 1b or 2a but 3b group, not supposed to get the vaccine until March. If I lived in Virginia, Utah, Texas, etc I would be eligible now and I have friends with my same cancer who’ve already got the shot (who are under age 65). I don’t want to take the vaccine before a 70-year old but I do think I should have a higher priority than the state has given me. It’s a moot point at this time because there aren’t even shots for my parents. Eventually, my cancer hospital will get me a vaccine I hope.
Anonymous
In Virginia, pretty much everyone is now in category 1b and they are having to prioritize within the category. The labels are meaningless. The actual order in practice is what matters. Only health care workers and teachers are currently getting vaccinated in my health district. I am “high-risk” in group 1b but I doubt I’ll be vaccinated before the summer because there are so many people in the group and the notification system is basically nonexistent.
Anon
Canada’s Governor General resigned yesterday after a third-party investigation into allegations of workplace harassment. The investigation uncovered that many dedicated staff who had worked in the office of the Governor General for quite some time left their jobs during her tenure.
I’ve seen how workplace harassers force good staff out with my own eyes. At my own organization, we had a VP who had been fired from another employer due to workplace harassment who was eventually fired at our org for harassment. But in the interim, so many cherished, remarkable colleagues were lost- forced to leave to protect their own health and wellbeing. And where is the justice for them? When they had to take inferior roles elsewhere just to get out ASAP? My question is – in situations like this, how is the damage to employees made good (or is it? or can it even be?). Can people who were forced out insist on being reinstated? Can they sue? Or do you really have to stay and report report report and hope that the harasser resigns/is fired?
Anonymous
I can’t comment on the issue in the broad sense but for Canadian public servant there are internal mechanisms to apply for jobs and land on your feet. It’s designed this way to keep smart people within the Canadian government.
Anon
We are trying to get our schools to commit to reopening metrics or at least commit to plan to reopen before 2022. One idea floated was “should we cancel spring break like some colleges are doing” and the parent/staff reaction was “OMG no we have already booked travel plans.”
Whoa. Are people really planning spring break travel? I feel like I have gone nowhere except into the woods to tent camp an hour from my house since this all started. My kids are probably slipping into depression — they are sad, their nerves are fraying, zooming with friends has just lost its appeal. I feel like if we are really not going back to school until at least August, I should rent a beach house or mountain cabin and just give them a change of pace.
I feel like with such local pro-travel sentiment, schools will probably not go back. Until now, we have gone nowhere, seen no one, and have tried to do what we can to resume normal life. I guess if school doesn’t reopen (with that being our main risk vector), we might as well travel and see friends outside again since waiting until [it is unclear when] is becoming toxic.
Anonymous
So two things, and not knowing where you are located:
– people might be planning spring break travel *hoping* they get to go, but know deep down there’s a good possibility of cancelling last minute if there’s a surge in cases again or something restricting non-essential travel, depending on the states. it’s more about the possibility of hope instead of constantly chafing against all the things we can’t do and haven’t been able to do for nearly a year now
– hopefully their idea of spring break travel is more like “drive a few hours to a nearby park or beach and camp for several days” and not “going to tourist area or extended family/friends and party”
Cat
Yes, people are making Covid-careful travel plans. I know lots of people who have rented a cabin or beach house for vacation and I’m in an area where Covid is generally taken seriously, mask compliance is good, etc. (They’ve been WFH and are not high risk, staying driving distance from home, only their household is in the space, doing the same curbside pickup or takeout practices as at home, etc.) None of them have had Covid (of course, to their knowledge, but most of them got tested before and after the travel, so they can be assured they didn’t spread it or catch it associated with the trip).
Now if your circle is busy planning trips to AIs in Cancun, that’s another story…
Anonymous
Why wouldn’t you be able to have seen friend’s outside in masks and rented a vacation house at anytime since May? Yes. You should. That has nothing to do with school being able to reopen. Neither does spring break.
Anon
You didn’t get the message that no one was to travel for Thanksgiving or see family? Ditto for Christmas and New Year’s? And not visit old people and not violate state quarantine and no-visit rules?
I think unless you live in CA or FLA or maybe a Carolina, getting out and about if you were trying to be a good sport was really difficult. Parks were crowded. Rules were constantly changing. Hotels were out. It’s like I wished I knew someone with a spare cabin, but I don’t :(
Anonymous
Nope! Did not. I live in an east coast city, I have gone outside every day of the pandemic for walks and to parks, it has not been impossible. I rented a beach house over the summer it was great. I’ve air bnbed country houses multiple times.
Cat
? This reply has nothing to do with the OP’s complaint of (1) not seeing friends even outside and masked, and (2) not traveling at all.
Renting a vacation house doesn’t mean you’re combining with other households or violating state requirements.
Anon
For us, my kids could see friends outside, and then we dialed that back at Thanksgiving since #s were spiking in our area. For them, it is almost 2 months of isolation since the promise of school resuming now won’t materialize until at least February (which means almost a year of no school). They are ice skating tomorrow, which will probably do them a ton of good AND we finally got bikes for them, which had been outgrown and were needed a year ago, but so hard to find locally.
anon
My retired parents have 2022 pretty much fully booked with travel plans. Most of it is money from 2020 travel they rolled over as deposits for 2021 travel, and now 2022 travel. As far as I know, very little of it was booked with “new” money.
DH and I canceled our 10th anniversary trip planned for May 2020. We have tentative “plans” to take the trip in February 2022, but all that means is we’re on my parents’ calendar for them to watch our son that week. If our son being in school were contingent on canceling winter break or us canceling our travel plans, we’d cancel in a heartbeat.
anon
Oh, I misunderstood that people are making travel plans for spring break this year! We are not planning to travel. We have not been super risk averse, but numbers are so high right now, and hospitals are so overwhelmed, that we are not traveling. We went camping in the fall, and I considered reserving another camping spot over spring break but decided against it for now. Maybe by mid-spring, with vaccinations proceeding, it will look different enough to take a last-minute, socially distant trip.
No Face
Unless cases are spiking in your area (or you are very high risk), you should absolutely socialize with a small group outside with masks. You can also rent a house and drive there, in a place without a spike. I would do that ASAP.
Anonymous
I live in a place with (in comparison to every major US city) shockingly low covid rates, yet I haven’t traveled the entire pandemic nor have I done any real socializing. I know I’m doing the right thing but it’s hard. I’m very healthy, as is DH, and we could go about living our lives without any personal consequences, however we care for our community so we’re stuck being good people at home in relative isolation. Its very demoralizing to see how the burden is so disproportionately spread.
Anonymous
There’s so much room between “never leave house” and “pretend covid isn’t real” and I’m truly sad for you that you cannot find it.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Thank you for doing this. I personally appreciate it.
Anon
+1 I personally appreciate everyone doing as much as they can to limit the spread. Thank you.
Anonymous
Thank you! Your encouragement is definitely keeping me going and resolute in my decision.
anon
Most people cannot go a whole year without seeing other people and if you can, good for you (maybe?) but that’s not normal. And if you truly don’t have the need to see others, don’t pretend to be a martyr when you’re actually not giving up very much. Why can’t you see one or two friends outdoors masked and distanced? Even Fauci has been doing that.
Anonymous
That presumes that you can find one or two friends who are on the same page. Presumably Fauci’s friends are intelligent and understand science; that is not true of anyone in my neighborhood. We tried outdoor gatherings a few times with family. It turned into “it’s so cold, let’s go inside.” Then once inside they took the masks off because it was their house. Then they wanted everyone to stay to dinner and got offended when we left. Sorry, mom and dad. We’ll see you when we’re all vaccinated.
Anonymous
+1 I’d love to safely socialize but with the cold it’s not really possible if you don’t have friends and family who will endure the cold and take appropriate measures.
Anonymous
Holiday travel, sports, parties, and sleepovers are huge drivers of spread in our area, and why I had to pull my kid out of her masked, distanced book club right after Thanksgiving. A couple of weeks later, two of the kids in the group caught the virus.
We were considering renting a house within driving distance for spring break, but decided it was too risky because the more transmissible variant of the virus will be dominant in the U.S. and causing a new spike at that time, because of how filthy rental houses are even in normal times, and because we wouldn’t want to miss out on a vaccination opportunity if one arose.
Anon
We have an AirBnb single family home booked for Spring Break within driving distance of us, and I am very excited. We will likely cook there and hike in a large national park nearby. I don’t consider doing what we are planning on doing any more risky than what we do in our daily lives at home (which is not much, but we hike here so that is kind of one for one). I would have done something like this basically since this past June probably. We actually did do something similar to this in July and it was lovely.
To be fair, we are lucky to be in a mild weather area with nice weather within driving distance even in March.
However, if for whatever reason cancelling that would increase our school chances of reopening because of a policy (not because I think what we are doing will incrementally contribute to numbers relative to staying at home) I would 100%.
Anon
I feel you. During the summer when cases were low we rented for 1 week a vacation house in the same rural location 2 hours from our house that we have rented for a week every summer for years. It’s contactless check-in and we brought all our own food. We didn’t interact with anyone outside of our family of four the entire time.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, four friends have once each, all separately, in my backyard, masked and social distanced. That was also in the summer/fall before cases started their current climb.
And that is the sum total of my travel and socializing since March 2020. My kids have been remote learning since then as well.
I know sometimes when you’re really trying to follow the rules it can feel like you’re the only one, but we’re out here. There’s just not a lot to post on social media about another day on the couch, so maybe that’s why it feels like everyone else is out their living their best life, at the expense of everyone else.
AnonMPH
Why have you limited your backyard, masked and distanced socializing so severely? Outdoors is so much safer, when you add masks and distancing you are bringing the risk way way down. While of course nothing is zero risk, any friends/family that have been exposed in an outdoor, distanced setting tested negative throughout their subsequent quarantine.
You could safely be seeing four people at one time in your backyard once per week, even now, if you wanted. The weather has really been the limiting factor in our outdoor socializing (too hot, rain, too cold) but we have persevered as much as possible.
Anon
I would like the risk to be as close to zero as I can possibly get. I have rheumatoid arthritis and the drugs I take to keep it from tearing my joints apart limit my immune response.
I take all the guidance very seriously. I don’t want to be responsible for killing someone’s grandma.
Anon
I’m sure some are. I live in a coastal state, and while I don’t know what spring breaks elsewhere look like (or now, I don’t have kids so my experience is 20 years out of date), but for most people I know, it was “go rent a beach house at the beach that’s two hours away for a week.” You can do that in a pretty COVID-safe manner if you do your own cooking instead of eating out and are just with your family.
Thanks, it has pockets!
I can kind of see renting a house, in your area, for your household and maybe another household you’ve effectively bubbled with, bringing all your own food and planning to get takeout or delivery, but mostly planning to spend some time hiking nature trails or sitting on the beach for a few days. That seems fine to me, especially if you’re anticipating that cases will be down by then and vaccination rates will be up (even if you’re not getting yours by then). I think that’s very different from jetsetting to Disney World, or Las Vegas, or Miami like some people are doing, and I personally think is super reckless to even think of doing between now and September.
Anonymous
We are going to a family owned condo on the beach for Spring break – our first trip since Covid. We will drive, taking our groceries with us. We may do some takeout but will otherwise be to ourselves. There are options.
anon
I have decided 2021 is the year when I’m finally going to get a sophisticated one-piece swimsuit. Probably in black — not my favorite color by any means, but it fits the vibe I’m going for. The trick is that I’m a size 12 with a very long torso. I end up defaulting to tankinis a lot, and I’m just so over them — the look in general, and having to adjust the top whenever I get in and out of the water. I love the styles of La Blanca, Michael Kors, and Ralph Lauren, but they are not long enough in the torso. Other than Lands End and Athleta, what recommendations do the long-torsoed ladies have? I’m not feeling especially inspired by Athleta’s offerings at the moment, but I realize it’s early.
Anonymous
https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/swimwear/longtorso-ruched-femme-onepiece-swimsuit/B6845
Anonymous
No brand recommendation for you, but with a similar problem I have previously had more luck with the more skimpy styles. The ones that don’t have a full back, but stops as low as a bikini brief in the back and then just loops around the shoulders, and has a smaller (or asymmetrical) front are more forgiving for a long torso. They’ll be more low-cut on you in front than intended, though.
Anonymous
Sometimes J Crew offers long torso one-piece styles. I have a black halter suit from last season that is the first one-piece I’ve owned since college.
anne-on
JCrew has long sizes in a lot of their swimwear. I know regular Jcrew quality is kind of hit or miss but I’ve been pleased with their swim offerings. I’d also check out vineyard vines, and Boden.
anon
I forgot about Boden. That might be a good option. Believe it or not, JCrew’s long torso offerings are not long enough for me.
Cat
FWIW, I tried Boden swimwear, and was very disappointed in the longevity for the price point. I purchased two suits in spring 2019 that only lasted 3 vacations before the printed outer layer gave up the ghost – I looked like the “before” in an excess skin removal surgery.
same here
Summersalt has some long torso styles. I have one that is very flattering and comfortable.
Anonymous
Try Summersalt. I’m size 12-14, 5’9″ with a long waist, and their tall sizes were a bit too long for me.
HW
I’ve had good luck with Garnett Hill
Cat
JCrew used to have a ton of long-torso options (RIP), but thankfully what they do still offer is classic. Keep an eye out for their spring rollout of swim options.
Anon
Check Everything But Water (dot com). They have a lot of what I feel are sophisticated looking one pieces, so you may find something there to suit you?
CHL
Boden
Anonymous Canadian
I keep getting ads for Andie swimwear in my inbox and they have lots of long torso options. I am tempted but have no idea how they are in real life.
Anon
Vix! The bia suit. Expensive but when you put it in you can see why it’s more expensive.
anon
The cognitive dissonance there is mindblowing, for sure. Can’t go to school, but you can go on vacation? Yikes.
For whatever it’s worth, my family has been very locked down. We are fortunate to have open schools, with a lot of restrictions — and that’s the only public activity we’re doing. I am itching to plan a socially distanced trip for summer 2021 just for a change in scenery, but I’m not quite mentally there yet. Or if it’s even feasible. I live in a place where it requires 6+ hours of driving to get to anything resembling a vacation spot, which gives me pause. And I really don’t want to be on an airplane anytime soon.
Anonymous
If you want to stay home then do so. But suggesting that no one can or should do any sort of vacation is absurd.
Anonymous
This kind of thinking is why we are all in the situation we’re in. Everyone thinks they are special and deserve an exception from the laws of science. Oh, my mental health is suffering from being trapped at home, so I deserve to go browse Target wearing a mask that doesn’t really cover my nose. Oh, my poor kids’ mental health is suffering from being trapped at home, so I’ll just host a sleepover. My parents are old, so we’ll just go visit them over the holidays. It’s our choice and we’ve assumed the risk. Meanwhile, those of us who are actually paying attention to science and are staying home are basically trapped forever because of your “choices.” You all are the reason my ninth-grader can’t go to school, and you’re proud of it. I hope you all get COVID and suffer.
Anonymous
I think you need professional help.
Anon
FFS stop telling people they need therapy when you mean you disagree. Why the need to gaslight and be passive aggressive?
Anon
also, I am surprised you didn’t add “full stop” which is the other code on this board for “I win. No more comments unless they agree with my POV.”
Cat
? No one on the travel thread above is suggesting not wearing masks properly or combining with other households (whether for brief local activities or vacation). They are recommending renting a place – to yourselves, where you continue to behave responsibly – within driving distance of home.
Anon
oh the drama. It’s certainly possible to leave the house and not think one is an “exception to the rules of science.” There is also something in between being inside your home all the time and going to Target wearing a mask that doesn’t cover your nose.
Anonymous
Our schools are open, and district leadership is blaming all the local spread on peoples’ out-of-school activities. While holding wrestling meets with no masks.
No Face
What is the cognitive dissonance? One household driving to a rented house where they cook meals at the house and avoid interacting with other people obviously has a lower risk of transmission than a school. (FYI, my kid has been going to school in-person and it has been great.)
Anon
I’d give an arm or leg to get my kids back in school.
We’ve been urged to “be good” and get local #s down before teachers will even consider going back (our + rate basically needs to be cut in half). So I’ve been trying to be good for my kids’ sake, but it is really killing me and them and it looks like our school system has no will or desire to go back in person. So it just generally s*cks.
No Face
That’s so hard. My kid really suffered when our schools were shut down.
Seventh Sister
Me too. And what kills me is that they KNOW how to get schools open – you need masks and distancing. But even though we’re in flipping LA County, can’t use the great outdoors! Unless it’s for football practice, ahem, “conditioning.”
Anonymous
Very few people around here are actually renting those beach houses for just their own households and then staying there for the whole vacation. They are inviting the extended family and then going out to dinner.
Friday
I think many people missed that the post above was asking about SB *2022* but maybe I’m being naïve. Do you think we have another year of quarantine ahead of us?
Anonymous
Absolutely not. There is no chance at all.
Cat
The SB in question is this spring, not 2022. (trying to plan for schools to reopen “before” 2022)
I don’t think anyone is predicting this lasting another whole calendar year. But I’m prepared that I won’t get a shot for a good 5-6 months yet.
Anon
The SB in question is this spring, not 2022. (trying to plan for schools to reopen “before” 2022)
I don’t think anyone is predicting this lasting another whole calendar year. But I’m prepared that I won’t get a shot for a good 5-6 months yet.
anon
I am starting to think that we will have another year of Covid safety measures, though relatively few people are in true “quarantine.” The vaccine rollout is very slow, especially when considered on a global scale. There’s enough resistance to the vaccine that, even if enough were available today, we wouldn’t reach herd immunity. There is already one variant that affects the spike protein, and scientists are worried that the vaccines and antibodies from previous Covid infections will be less effective. There’s another variant that is more transmissible and is thought to be transmitted through children, when the vaccine hasn’t been approved for children under 16 and hasn’t been tested in children under 12 yet. I just don’t see how we get to a point within the next year where transmission rates are low enough to reduce and then eliminate Covid spread. Basically, even with the good vaccine news, I don’t think we’re going to “outrun” viral mutations and subsequent transmissions within the next year. (I am not a scientist, just a pessimist.)
OP
I’m the one who misunderstood then, sorry everyone.
franklina
An update to my Annoying-Obstructive-Person issue from yesterday: yah, my Boss was NOT happy to have seen that email, either.
A-O-P works in Group A, which does a specific kind of contracted-work. A-O-P ran their mouth to their boss, who is the boss of Group A. That person then went to the boss of Group B, which is kind of the regulatory management for the overall organization. Then, Group B’s boss emailed my Boss, and they happened to have a meeting anyway yesterday. Group B’s boss isn’t directly in my chain, but is a very important person.
Basically, my boss told her that a) A-O-P and co are annoying and obstructive and basically don’t know what they’re talking about and making a mess with the project and b) that I am doing a great job and have my sh1t together. My boss also told me that she doesn’t so much care what Group A thinks, and that the people she wants to know that I am doing good work knows.
So I think we’re good.
Anonymous
I’m so glad to hear that. How wonderful to have a boss who has your back.
Been there ...
Yay! Nice that she had the chance to voice this, and that she has your back.
Giga
I am preparing for a not-so-great resigning process at my firm. People who work in our NY office have to sign a 1-year unpaid non-compete, which makes it hard to recruit and work with headhunters. I’ve heard some horror stories of people struggling to leave / the firm making it hell for them.
I work in CA, where non-competes are illegal. My contract has a 30-day notice period, but the people who got hired after me have a 90-day notice period in their employment contract, so clearly they are trying to get around the non-compete and pressure us into staying longer when we try to leave. I’m working on a lot of big projects right now, and my guess is they’re going to try to force me to stay as long as possible.
Has anyone dealt with firms that are like this? What is legal / what can I do? Any advice or help would be much appreciated from the smart lawyer ladies brain trust :)
anonshmanon
woah, I am not in the legal world at all, but they won’t pay you but prevent you from working for an entire year? Is this normal? How is this legal?
Anon
They can’t force you. Quit when you want to quit, leave when you want to leave, save all your documents and everything you’ve ever signed, and hire an employment attorney if you need one. I had to hire one to review a severance agreement that was very one-sided, and I was really pleased with the final outcome and surprised at how little she charged relative to the value at stake.
Anon456
It wasn’t in law but I had a terrible resignation once from a really unethical, not great place. With that context in mind I want to reset your thinking… they cannot make you do anything, including “force me to stay as long as possible.” You have a 30 days notice and that is ALL you owe them under any circumstance. They may apply insane pressure to tell you otherwise and/or treat you poorly during those 30 days, but that’s all you have to endure. I had to consult an employment attorney during my 2-week notice and threaten them with my attorney since they treated me so horrifically, but I’m through it and could not be any better for it.
anon
Also once had a terrible resignation experience (not law) from an unethical, toxic, not great place. My field is small, so I felt like it followed me around a bit, but I was absolutely better for it in any case. I also think the place trash talked me internally (as a sensitive person, this drove me crazy, even though I chose to leave and also they suck) but not so much externally, probably because I knew all their unethical business. It is really a hard thing to do, but the other side is comparative freedom.
Cat
This is wildly outside US norms. I’d check with an employment attorney.
Of Counsel
Are you trying to avoid giving 30-days notice or afraid that they will try to force/pressure you into staying longer? My advice will vary depending on the answer to that.
Giga
I’m OK with the 30 days notice, but I’m worried they will apply a lot of pressure to make me stay longer than that. Someone who tried to leave mid-last year, stayed for 3 months and had to work really hard that whole time. My firm has a history of being extremely ruthless with people trying to leave, so I am worried they will do the same to me.
Anonymous
They literally cannot make you stay. Just don’t agree to. And then don’t.
No Face
Yeah, you just leave. When they tell you do something, say “I will work on this until [end of notice period]. Who should I hand it off to then?” Rinse and repeat.
PNW
Give your notice and then leave when it’s up. As Ask A Manager often says, it’s the company’s job to deal with it. That’s all you owe them. They can’t be ruthless to you if you’re not there.
Of Counsel
You give 30 days notice in writing and then you leave. No amount of pressure can force you to stay. If they try, then you tell them your contract requires 30 days, you are giving 30 days. If their conduct becomes abusive then document that in writing. The second time, tell them that it feels retaliatory and borderline abusive. The third time tell them you have brought the situation to their attention twice already and you are now leaving.
If it is really bad and you feel like it is impacting your mental health, remember that California allows worker’s compensation claims for stress. Not suggesting you actually make a formal claim but the threat of one will probably make them back off.
Also – you work your usual hours. If they try to make you work more just do not do it. What are they going to do? Fire you?
Anonymous
Give 30 days notice and leave. Just turn in your stuff and leave.
Blair Waldorf
Sometimes the new employer will review and/or defend you in a non-compete if they think they can. I would ask about that at the offer stage.
Anon
Also, in some states (in my state) an employer attempting to enforce an unenforceable non-compete can be subject to a counter-suit for a violation of the state’s unfair trade practices act, which can subject them to punitive damages/penalties. Don’t be afraid to leverage that back on them if they try something.
Anon
Has anyone tried Switch (jewelry renting service)? Looks like they have nice luxury brands – David Yurman, Chanel, etc. that I drool over but would never actually buy. My thought is $50/month for two pieces is a good deal, but wondering if anyone had feedback before I sign up.
Anonymous
I’ve not used it, but to me, if you needed it for a special occasion it would be one thing, but if you’re going to do it for a couple of months, you’re better off just buying a piece that you really like.
Cat
I don’t know… for $50 a month, you could save $600 in a year, and buy yourself the Yurman bracelet? But I’m not big on logos (jewelry or otherwise) so the Chanel pieces, which I’m sure would be more expensive to buy retail, don’t appeal. YMMV.
Anon
Yeah, I’m not into logos either. Too gaudy and showy. Just think their pieces are beautiful.
Anon
That would have tempted me at a certain point in my life. Why don’t you try it for a month and see what you think?
Anon
As I plan for my next job search, assuming the salary numbers work out, what are some unusual perks you have negotiated or heard about others negotiating with a new job offer? WFH technology allowance and a wardrobe allowance for someone in the public eye are a few recent ones I’ve come across.
Anonymous
I’m guessing you’re a high earner from this question. Assuming that’s the case, and you are going to have substantial extra money to save, maybe ask about whether the retirement plan allows for Mega Backdoor Roth contributions and if not, use that to leverage extra money?