Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Doubleweave Trousers

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1. Yay! Fruegal Friday’s! I love Fruegal Friday’s and my new silk top that I bought on line. Trousers are nice for people with smaller tuchuses, but I prefer A line dresses this time of year which do a better job to mask my tuchus from public scrutiny. Even the judge likes my A line dresses– he said I reminded him of his wife who he married in 1960! I really am a retro-gal, as the manageing partner’s brother says, but at least the judge keeps his hands to himself!

   It was too hot for me to walk home last nite so I took the bus and a guy wound up pinching me. I wonder how others in the HIVE would deal with this. It was crowded so I could not pull out my phone and take a picture of him, even if I had the nerve. What do others do?

   Elizabeth, can you and Kat poll the others, b/c maybe I can get good ideas of what to do here! TIA and have a nice weekend!

2. Anyone leave big law for government and then have a hard time adjusting? I know how lucky I am for having gotten into government and this job was my ultimate career goal, but I feel like it’s just not “clicking” for me. I appreciate the more reasonable hours and nicer people, but I feel less engaged and I feel like my work product isn’t as good as it was in big law (I feel like I’m not performing as well.) I’m also not really sure what I’m working towards now. Anyone else go through this? Any advice?

   1. Not government, but having left a law firm to go in-house, I can relate to the feeling you’re describing of “not sure what I’m working toward.” I feel like at a law firm, the pressure/anxiety is so high, and there’s a general understanding that the majority of associates will be leaving the firm within five or so years, and even fewer will spend the rest of their careers there.

      In government or in house, by contrast, you see far more example of people making decades-long careers in the same office, perhaps moving up in seniority based on years of service, but it’s much easier to see a long, endless path straight ahead. And, having been to a couple of retirement parties now, I realize that I absolutely don’t want that to be me: at the end of 20+ years in this same role, the company gives me a cocktail reception (if that) and says thank you for your service, and I move on. It just seems too depressing. Variety is the spice of life, so I don’t see myself as a “lifer” in my current role.

      So where does that leave me? Staying in place for another year or two, but then looking to transition, oddly, possibly back to a law firm, to get back to that flexibility and high pay, and an organization where the lawyers are the value-adders. I don’t really see going to another company. I could see going into government: somehow, the idea of decades of service at a government agency doesn’t cause me the same distaste as years of service at a company. Perhaps because it seems more like “public service.”

      1. Still in biglaw (technically midlaw, but biglaw in my secondary market) and while it’s hard and I work a ton, I think I would enjoy moving up the ranks. This is the kind of place where partnership or another track is possible.

         I can’t imagine enjoying being an organization where I am a cost center and there’s not a lot of natural movement up, and I definitely can’t imagine being in the government. Maybe it’s a prestige thing, maybe it’s a “grew up poor, trying to secure my future as best I can” or simply realizing I do better while striving to do big things, even if they don’t happen. My firm is best case scenario for working at a large firm and I realize that is rare, but even I still have occasional doubts about whether I should be here forever and since most in-law folks who pipe up about their experiences are loving it, it feels like I’m missing out, even though I know myself.

         I appreciate you sharing your perspective.

      2. FWIW, I think this is partly about getting older. When I made partner (equity partner! Major biglaw firm!) I had that same sense of deflation – sort of a “is this all there is?”. I’ve figured out a path forward, but it is inherently different than it was in the associate days where you’re constantly pushing for promotion. When you are an equity partner, “promotions” are far less public and it’s just a more complicated game.

   2. I went from private practice into government and had some of the same feelings. Maybe it’s the fact that there is a lot more review of my work by non-attorneys and if my opinion/advice is overruled by higher-ups in the agency, I have to suck it up even though I know I’m right. I just try to keep the mission of the agency (public safety) at the forefront. There is definitely some adjustment required.

   3. How long have you been there? I moved from big law to a boutique about a year ago and truly struggled with the transition in the first six months, but I’ve grown to appreciate some of the benefits of the smaller environment. It’s possible these are new job blues.

   4. This is exactly why I left government law. I realized that, unlike coworkers who were ten or more years in with another twenty years stretching ahead until retirement, I would not be happy doing the same things in the same practice area with the same agency for my entire career – especially when I had a heavy detail schedule and no ability to take comp time in return because of workload and an office head enamored of military scheduling (i.e. you had to sign in and out for lunch, even if you were exempt and ate at your desk).

      My coworkers were content with the regular schedules and the routine because their priorities were security, the ability to pick up their kids from school before 5 p.m., and a pension at retirement. I realized that was not for me before I became unable to leave my agency and do not regret my decision.

      TL; DR: YMMV. Some people think a government job is the ultimate goal, but not all goals are for all people. If you do not like the environment after a couple years, you should have the ability to transition elsewhere, including back to BigLaw if you want.

      1. +1, I started in small law having worked in government prior to law school. Switched to a government attorney role after having kids and quickly moved back to private practice for all the reasons stated above. I opted for the flexibility and variety that comes with private practice over the stability and security of government work. I may regret that at retirement from a financial perspective, but I know I will be happier in the long run. My spouse is career government and is nearing retirement in exactly the same role he started in. The reality that promotion is not in the cards has only come to light in the last few years, after he has way too much at stake to leave. It has been a huge blow to his mental health.

         1. I think it’s interesting that you and others say that private practice provides more flexibility. I think that’s true in some ways (work from anywhere, etc.) but do you find the demands of always being available and the larger quantity and faster pace of work makes the job LESS flexible than government?

            1. I find private practice more stressful, but a lot more flexible.

               As I posted above, I had to sign in and out for lunches as an exempt government employee; on a larger scale, if I had to spend most of my day on Sunday travelling so that I could be in a remote division for a detail, then I did not have the option to leave early the following Friday or cumulate the extra time to a day off. When you regularly work 50 hour weeks, the extra time becomes a real burden, especially when you cannot even run out to Motor Vehicles for an hour during a work day without taking leave.

               Similarly, my government office allowed leave to be taken based only on seniority. As the junior attorney, I never could get off the day after Thanksgiving or time during the winter holidays because the senior assistants would take those days off and we needed minimum staffing in case of emergency filings. That generally stunk.

               Once I hit private practice, I had the ability to work when and where I wanted. When I was in-house, I had flexibility as long as I was in my office between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. when I did not have court and took on late hours (for West Coast divisions) until 8 p.m. once or twice a month (and then I could leave early the next day if I wanted). I am in private practice now and I come and go as I please. I have The Kid now and I do not know how I would manage to deal with school events, late starts, early dismissals, etc. with a government schedule that requires desk time from 8 to 5 every day and all non-emergency sick leave requests a week in advance (my office head did not believe in non-standard hours or 5-4-9 for attorneys).

               Of course, the flexibility has its price. I work three to four nights a week at home for an hour or more; last night I was writing a brief past midnight. However, I can leave the office at 4 p.m. today to take The Kid to a baseball game (although I may finish a conference call in the car). But isn’t everything in law a tradeoff?

               Also, and importantly, the additional money I make in private practice and the perks here buy me a certain level of flexibility and free time. If I need child care coverage for a half day, I can afford to hire a sitter; if I had stayed with the government, money would be an issue. My firm pays my bar dues plus I have a CLE budget allocation; at the government I had to pay all of that myself — and I even had to pay for my own business cards. My firm has free parking right outside my office door and I can be in the car in under a minute if I have a sick kid at school; at the government, I had to pay for my parking and there were no spaces in my building, so I had to walk four blocks each way, rain, snow or shine. That walking time adds up!

               Again, YMMV, but I do tell applicants to my old division that there are some major downsides to practicing government law and that they should think through the choice carefully.

            2. @MsB, that sounds like a particularly inflexible government agency. When I was a fed, we never had to sign in for lunch, and everyone could take winter holidays off as requested (of course there was the issue you mentioned – minimum staff available certain days like day after T-giving, but I was rarely filing something that day anyway). I got to use other leave as I pleased, and once I established myself with my supervisor (maybe after about a year or so), I had carte blanche for the most part. Of course, my office, like most gov’t offices, required that you were generally available from 9-5, but I can tell you many many people were not in their offices during those hours (I assume they were in court, at agency meetings, etc. but who knows). As long as you could be reached if needed (which wasn’t a problem since we all had gov’t iphones) it was mostly a non-issue.

            3. I think the level of flexibility in government really varies based on your agency and direct supervisor. At my agency, almost everyone is on a modified scheduled – generally either four 10-hour days a week, or eight 9-hour days and one 8-hour day (with one day off) every two weeks. I’m on the second, so I have every other Friday off. But my supervisor is very flexible, so I can always move my off day around if another day during the pay period would work better. And although I have set hours, he is open to me coming in early/leaving early or coming in late/leaving late as needed. Plus, if I have to work late or on the weekend, I get comp time for those hours so can take additional vacation days.

               I liked the flexibility of biglaw that I had as a senior associate, and will admit that it is a little less now in government. But that tiny loss in flexibility has been very highly outweighed by the fact that I never have to even think about work on the nights and weekends.

            4. Perhaps it’s more accurate to say that many law firms require less face time than in-house or govt jobs — naturally, since the only way non-billable jobs have to account for you working is seeing you in the office. But the ability to work a short day physically in the office at the law firm (9:30-4:30, commonly) and then log on for a few hours at night or before the kids wake up when needed (which wasn’t that often) is something I really miss.

   5. I moved to government from private practice and for the most part have been happy I made the switch. I will admit I have topped out one step below the job I really wanted. I am running out the clock on retirement and focusing on other parts of my life while doing good in my little area of the government world from 9 to 5, which is working out wonderfully well. I often say I have the best job in the world and all I had to give up was my pride.

      1. Are you me?

   6. This is an interesting discussion. I’m not in law, but do have a government-adjacent job and have for the majority of my career. It is only now, at age 38, that I’m starting to get usurped by people who went into the private sector and now are deciding to cut back hours/want a life, blah blah blah. It is a real blow to constantly finish as the runner-up to the new, shiny private-sector person when I’ve been slowly but steadily working my way up all along. I consistently get great feedback from interviews but end up not being the chosen one for new positions that I have a strong interest in. I feel really stuck, despite having an objectively good, steady job. I just can’t see myself doing this job for a lifetime.

   7. I think this is pretty common. Can you say with any more specificity what type of gov’t work you do? fed or state? litigation or non-litigation role? Having done Biglaw, Fed gov’t work and state gov’t work, I can tell you that at least some fed gov’t work (for me, at least) was just as challenging and stimulating as my biglaw time (in many ways, more so, because I found the subject matter far more interesting than the work I did at biglaw). I also found there was a sense of camaraderie and shared mission that wasn’t present in biglaw. That said, most of my fed gov’t colleagues who started the same time as I did are now departing for biglaw partner/senior counsel roles (the legal market is pretty hot where I live) and making $$$$, so that may tell you something. I also do think it is easy to get “stuck” in a gov’t role where you never get promoted/advanced. That began to gnaw at me as I approached the decade mark at my fed gov’t job – I realized I had grown stale and probably wasn’t going to be able to move up at the agency where I had worked. I still miss the job but I learned a lot and made a few great friends, so it was worth it for me. Good luck, I would say if you have only been there a few months, you should give it a little more time and see if it is something that works for you.

   8. Yes times a million. I had a really rough time transitioning from a law firm (which I didn’t hate) to government. I was ready to run back to my firm. It probably took 2-3 years to (almost) fully transition. Part of it was just adjusting to all the differences and adjusting my attitude in various ways. Now, 6 years in, I’m able to get on lots of interesting projects, and have plenty of work to keep me pretty busy. Plus, now I deal with much more complex legal issues and policy issues than I’d likely be working on at a firm. In addition, the work life balance really is much much better. Is it perfect or is it forever? Probably not, but I’m starting to realize why people stay in government for a long time.

   9. I have been in Big Law (2 years), Small Law (5 years), and Medium Law (1 year, when the small law firm I worked for was acquired). I’m now a lawyer in a federal agency, and I agree that the transition is significant. I’m still working on getting completely staffed up – it is taking time because I’m conflicted off several matters. I miss some of the flexibility for sure – like running to a dentist appointment and not worrying about taking leave or taking off a Friday afternoon when I’ve worked a bunch of hours already that week. BUT…I now work from 8:30-5:00, and I have enough leave to accommodate mid-day appointments when necessary. I don’t check my email at night, and I won’t work on weekends. I haven’t gotten a frantic call/text from a private client since I left the firm. I’m home to cook dinner with my husband, and am able to live life in a way that I couldn’t when I worked at a firm….so, while it has been an adjustment….I’m happy to have made the jump.

3. Ladies looking for advice on hiring a housekeeper. I’d like someone to come by a few hours twice a week to clean, do laundry, organize and maybe some light cooking. I live in a major city. Any suggestions on how to go about hiring someone? And any advice on paying taxes (if I need to)?

   1. I am doing this right now! My spouse gets a free care.com subscription as a work benefit, so we’re starting by posting there. We will use a payroll service to deal with taxes. If you’re having someone come in twice/week, you will almost certainly need to pay taxes.

      1. If you hire a service, they withhold their employees’ income taxes and you don’t have to worry about any of this. We did the payroll and tax thing ourselves for a nanny, but for a cleaning person it doesn’t seem worth it to me when you can just pay a service.

         1. Thanks! I’m in New York. Anyone know of services that go beyond cleaning? Most services I have found really only are for cleaning and I’m looking for someone who will also do all our laundry (2 adults and a toddler) and put it away, change out sheets/towels, clean out fridge, do dishes, tidy up, wash/sanitize toys, some light meal prep or cooking (throw in a slow cooker meal, make overnight oats, wash and chop veggies).

            1. This sounds like a dream come true to me. Thoughts on how much this would cost?

            2. @ letty I was thinking it would end up being 8-10 hours a week and would guarantee 8 for stability. Probably pay around 20/hour (maybe a bit more)? Curious if anyone has done this and has a better idea of rates

            3. I did something like this in the Chicago suburbs. I posted on Care for a “family helper” and got lots of applicants, but about half were true cleaning services that didn’t understand what I was looking for. The rest were generally women who either had done this type of work before or had left the workforce and were looking to get into housekeeping. We only had her come 1x a week for 3 hrs each time, and we were looking to replace the work that our former nanny did during her “off” time – e.g., dishes, laundry, general tidying, some errands – after our kids started to school. We still had a weekly cleaner (our former nanny) come in to do a deep clean, but we’re slobs so needed a mid-week tidying too. :) It worked out well for us, but we let her go after ~1-1.5 year because of a job change that meant we had less money and more time, so less of a need for help.

               I paid the lady we ended up hiring $20/hr – in NYC, I expect the rate may be a bit higher. If you know people with nanny/housekeepers currently who may be looking to scale back hours, that’d be a great way to find someone since you’re presumably somewhat flexible on timing.

            4. That’s two full days of work. Not 8 hours.

            5. Our apartment is not very big. A full deep clean only takes 3 hours total every other week for our current service.

            6. Ok. And you’ve added a ton to that list. Whatever. Just tried to help

            7. Look at the Si Se Puede! co-op in Sunset Park. It’s not quite what they specialize in BUT it’s a co-op so it’s worker-owned and no one is being exploited, which is a worry for me with many services. I have used someone from there for years and recommended her all over the place and everyone has loved her, too. She has definitely done all of the stuff you list for either me or friends I’ve recommended her to except for the light cooking.

            8. Thanks! I’ll check them out! I like the idea of hiring a service to avoid the tax issue but similarly in the past have worried about poor treatment of workers

            9. I did this in the Bay Area two years ago — a tighter market for low-wage workers than NYC. I looked for years for someone who would come. It was almost impossible to find someone who was willing to do housework, rather than childcare. I finally found someone whose rate was $25/hr plus employer taxes for 3 hours of help per day, five days a week. Unfortunately this person didn’t ultimately work out — she was older and had some physical limitations that made it difficult for her to really help me — but it was a lifesaver for the few months that she was with us.

               We kept our cleaning service. The model for cleaning services here is lightening fast; you are never going to get that value for money from a household helper who speaks good English and has excellent judgment.

            10. We found that we couldn’t get a service to do what we wanted. Also, most of the major services are ridiculously terrible employers, and I don’t want to be party to their labor practices. There’s nothing like Se Se Puede in my city.

                We are looking for someone to come 10-15 hours a week, split over 4 or 5 days. In my MCOL area, we are planning to pay somewhere around $18/hour gross, which is midrange for the market. I posted an ad yesterday, and already have six applications, so hopefully something works out.

            11. For payroll, there are plenty of services that charge around $30/month to deal with it all. We will go that route. No way am I doing it myself.

   2. What you are looking for is not a cleaner, it’s more of a “mother’s helper” sort of role, whether or not you have kids in that he or she will replace a lot bigger of a variety of home tasks than cleaning. I’ve seen this done where you guarantee a certain amount of hours per week and per month to one person, usually hired through word of mouth (someone’s retired mother or grandmother wants a little extra cash) or a site like care.com. I’ve seen this sort of help go anywhere from $15-30/hr and guaranteeing 5-10 hrs /week since it doesn’t require child care skills and doesn’t have the same safety concerns. Since this person isn’t full time, and presumably will just get a list of tasks that they can perform as they see fit, I’d just pay them as a 1099 worker.

      1. Thanks! This is very helpful

      2. This. You need a household manager (at least that’s what they call them in my mid-sized city.)

      3. Very unlikely that this position legit qualifies as 1099 employment.

         1. Yeah, part time is in no way enough to be a true 1099. Basically if the person is being paid to work in your home and you pay them over some ridiculously low threshold, like $2k/year, they’re an employee and you have to withhold taxes. Do what you want, but this is not legit.

4. My workplace just switched to business casual, meaning that we can wear jeans every day. I’m not comfortable wearing my current jeans to work because they are either (1) snug date-night skinnies; or (2) not polished enough. I’d like to purchase at least one pair that I feel comfortable wearing to work, but I’m having trouble figuring out what kind would work best. I’m also a curvy size 14, so I want to be careful about the fit. Recommendations?

   1. I wear snug date night skinnies to work all the time. Why would those not be appropriate? Unless they are really low cut and actually showing some skin, I don’t see a problem.

      1. I wear high-waisted skinny jeans/jeggings to work every day. As long as they don’t have rips, my boss doesn’t care. Maybe you would feel more comfortable with a straight leg jean vs skinny?

      2. I think I’m self-conscious because I’m curvy, and skinny jeans really emphasize my hips and rear.

         1. You might find your choice in tops to help here. I wear high rise skinny jeans (gap true skinny) with a blouse that has a bit more volume, which I find balances me out. I also like coloured chinos in the summer.
            But give yourself some time to figure out what works for you – you can do a more gradual transition over time or choose to be a bit more business-y. You might find you like denim in other forms – a chambray top or shirt dress etc.

         2. Yeah, I get that. You can also throw a blazer or longer/looser cardigan on the top, or a longer/floaty shirt on top to distract the eye. I tend to wear skinny pants, just not jeans, then throw on a looser/longer top.

         3. Do what you’re comfortable with but as a fellow curvy lady I’ve come to accept that sometimes the curves are going to be noticeable unless I’m wearing a potato sack. I wear them to work all the time and usually just add a longer top or cardigan if it’s a pair that are particularly flattering from behind – but also I have a great behind – I can’t make it go away when it’s not convenient. I also have a high, close set chest so unless I’m wearing a baggy turtleneck, sometimes a little cleavage is going to show in even an otherwise modest top (I rule out so many cute tops that would be fine on most ladies). There’s definitely a difference between sexy and “I have a body with curves so they are going to be noticeable sometimes” and you can decide where the line is for you – But don’t feel like you can’t wear skinnies if you otherwise feel ok in them!

            1. Thanks for that perspective! I think I need to come to terms with that myself.

            2. +1 I am an extreme pear and all of my jeans are tight, skinny jeans and I wear them all to work. I prefer tops that are long, but they are all fairly form fitting too.

         4. I’m plus size as well and all I wear are high waisted skinny jeans – wider leg pants actually make me look shorter and wider, will skinny jeans somehow help me look slimmer.

            For me the choice of top is key. I often wear a cute top and a blazer that covers my behind and hips, so they aren’t on display. Or a longer cardigan especially since my office is always freezing.

   2. Sorry, just checking on terminology: business casual usually still means slacks, skirt or dress, just not a full suit. Do you mean casual?

      FWIW, I love Express jeans. I find that their boot cut styles have enough weight to the fabric and little enough stretch that they aren’t skin-tight and hold their shape well throughout the day. They are my go-tos for jeans day at the office.

      1. You’re right. The new dress code is “smart casual.”

   3. I wear jeans almost every day, I love Uniqlo and Everlane – skinny jean style, but not too tight.

   4. A trouser-cut jean might work for this purpose. I’ve seen them on the BR website, although I haven’t looked recently.

   5. You could also try skinnies in a size up. But honestly, for casual, I am more comfortable in casual dresses or colored trousers at work instead of jeans.

   6. I am your size, and find that Old Navy Mid Rise Curvy Skinny jeans fit nicely but are not comically tightly, have a good rise, and come in dark washes. I’ve been wearing them to work and have felt like I am dressed in contemporary fashion but am not showing off too much shape.

   7. The best pair of jeans I have ever had are Riders by Lee Indigo Women’s Pull-On Waist Smoother Straight-Leg Jean (put that term into Amazon). They have petite and regular length, sizes go from 6 to 24. I’m a 41″ hip and 32″ waist so these are definitely curvy girl friendly. I’m literally wearing them right now. They are are stretchy (not in a tight way) and the material is thicker so it doesn’t show panty lines or look too tight, just appropriately form fitting. And the waist is stretch waist but looks like a normal jean edge (i.e. not that weird bunched up stretch waistline). They have multiple washes. The dark wash is very professional.

   8. Wit and Wisdom Ab-Solution. Available at Nords; I recommend trying a size down from your usual size, as well as your regular size.

5. Piggybacking on yesterday’s discussion on living in London or Paris as a POC, can anyone speak to experience of living in these cities as an Asian woman? As a tourist I had few issues (other than the streotypical haughtiness and looking down on Asian tourists, which I imagine would be much more grating as a form of racism if I actually lived there) but I imagine the social life and work would be very different than when I’m just gallivanting around after college graduation.

   1. I do not live in London or Paris but live in a different European capital. Everyone including the French (and even Parisian) friends we have agree that Parisians are awfully racist in addition to being universally rude :P
      Would you consider Amsterdam or Berlin- these seem to be nicer. Bonus, Netherlands can be tax friendly for expats and Berlin is pretty cheap!

   2. Racism against East Asians is worse in London/Paris than in major US cities. People will have no problem putting a group of East Asians together whereas in the US, people at least know that’s not politically correct even if they think this way. When I traveled to London for backpacking trip one summer, the hostel put me in a room of all Asian travelers, even though we were not from the same country. The room was also the worst room in that hostel. Apparently it did not occur to anyone there that this might be perceived as racist, but when this would never happen in NY or Ca (though possibly southern states). Also, no one has ever referred to me as “the Chinese girl” or repeatedly by my ethnicity rather than my name in public until I got to London. And I found more people talking to me as if I didn’t speak English there. But it’s obviously not as bad as say, Alabama.

      From my black friends, it appears to be the reverse. London was less racist than the US for them. But I think because of the colonial relationship that London had with a lot of Asian countries, we historically got ordered around by white people and trivialized more in the UK than in the US. France is just racist to everyone (except Latin Americans) period.

6. Paging Rainbow Hair and other design-minded readers. I have a set of two big white built-ins in my living room (the far wall and the wall adjacent to the right). I’m struggling what to do to decorate them. I have a 80s green marble fireplace in the middle of one set, so I need to tie in emerald green (I’m not willing to paint it and re-doing it isn’t in the budget just yet). My first idea was to do a rainbow bookcase on the far wall, by the fireplace to have some emerald green tied in (and also use up more of my colored book spines). But then I thought that white, nuetrals and emeralds might look more chic. I could do either, but my main question is that for most people, are their bookcases more decorative? I feel kind of silly going to the thrift store and buying all these white books and accessories and not really using the space for storage of my real stuff.

   1. May not have described this well– the built ins on the fireplace wall would be rainbow, (two units, one big wall with fireplace in the middle) and the adjacent wall neutral (a big single unit where the TV goes). I don’t think I could do a whole room of rainbow bookcases! Or I could do both neutral.

   2. In my house, bookcases are for books! But in this case I would put one coordinated knick-knack on each shelf, alternating which end, with those discreet sheet-metal bookends (or a decorative bookend to serve as the knick-knack, but ime the decorative ones don’t work as well).

   3. I have built in bookcases by my fireplace. I would suggest being open to painting the whole thing, I had ugly brick around mine, didn’t want to spend the money to redo it and just painted all of it white (black is another option and can look great depending on the space) including the brick. I have a lot of books in there, but also I’ve added family photos, unframed art, random things of sentimental value that find a home in between the books.

      1. I’m tempted, for sure, but the green marble is the only green on the whole wall. It’s surrounded by a very nice white mantle, no bricks or anything else. My hesitation is that it actually is very nice, high quality marble and my father in law commented that it was a great fireplace. I’m worried painting it would make the whole thing look cheaper, even if it’s not 100% to my taste. I think I’ll save up to have it re-tiled with some white stone, but from my googling, it looks like it’ll be between 1-2 grand to get it done, and I have so many more projects ahead of it.

         1. Yeah, marble might not take paint as well – but tiling over it may be easier than it would appear, I’d investigate leaving the marble there and tiling on top (hard to speculate without seeing it, but I’ve been surprised by how easy some of those projects are. I might also consider painting the bookcases white and the room a dark green if you like green – I just did this in my dining room and love it. It looks pretty with golds, blues and blacks as accent colors.

   4. Young House Love has lots of posts with bookcase styling inspiration, like here:
      https://www.younghouselove.com/built-ins-are-hard/

      I like bookcases where the backs are painted, personally. And you can paint cardboard or plywood that’s cut to fit, which makes it easy to swap out colors when you want to change things up.

   5. Bookcases for me are for books and for display. I space things out so it doesn’t look cluttered and put up plants (+1 to indoor trailing plants that can take up vertical space of three shelves), poutpourri/other scent making items like candles, souvenirs, books, little statues, and will often leave 1/2 of the space on each shelf for future items (hence the spacing generously). I also use it as a space to organize small but necessary items like batteries, nail polish, etc. by putting them into cute decorative boxes. The specially chosen uncluttered look of spaced shelves looks very chic to me. I think the plants can bring in the green of the fireplace so you don’t have to worry about other things coordinating. The biggest benefit to me is that all the little one off tchatckes that have no purpose but sentimental value all in one place so it is easier to clean the home and make it look intentionally uncluttered.

      1. I like the idea of using decorative boxes or baskets. You can incorporate some green here (and they add a ton of storage and who doesn’t need that!) I also like the idea anon a mouse mentioned — painting cardboard or plywood and using that to back the bookcases. You could also cover the boards with wallpaper or a heavy wrapping paper, too (look at a craft store and see if they carry something that might work.) The design on the paper would lend interest and you wouldn’t necessarily have to put a lot on your shelves — in fact, the less on the shelves, the better (and less to attract dust!)

         There’s no rule that says you need to use green at all. You can consider the green marble fireplace an accent color and go with other colors in the room for contrast. Look at the marble really closely and see if there are other tones in it – there may be blue or black or even yellow in it that you can use in the room that will pull the look together.

         1. That’s great food for thought, thank you! I can remember that it does have some lovely veining in it, so I’ll have to check when I’m home if it has any navy or gray undertones as well. I did go ahead and order some basic white Oskar boxes from Container store to go on the bottom shelf, but I could definitely order more or mix in some more options.

   6. My freind has a green marble fireplace and hearth (installed it herself, regrets it now), and she set black ladder-style (as in, larger bottom shelves, smaller top shelves) bookshelves on each side, going way up the wall. Quite a few books, but also a few display items, and a lot of plants. I think the plants are probably key to playing off the green marble. She also has a lot of green textiles in the room, fwiw, and no other hard surfaces that color.

      1. Thank you, this is a great idea. I’ll double up on plants.

   7. My bookcases are part book, part display, and part storage. I used the books I already had, and used the storage bins as a unifying element – bins in the same/similar materials. If you do plants, like suggested above, I would try to get pots in all the same color family. This is also where I display the various lego sets I have (Big Ben, US Capitol) that are more display sets than play-with sets.

   8. I’m having a little trouble picturing it, so my suggestion may be totally off base but what if you just painted the back of the bookshelf (the inner flat surface) an emerald green? Otherwise, I’d just use them for storage and add a really beautiful emerald knickknack to tie in the color. Don’t paint the marble!

      1. I personally wouldn’t try to paint anything green – it’s going to be hard to match colors, I think. I would say you want to do things to make the green fireplace look intentional – use green in other textures/mediums (where the color variation doesn’t feel weird) elsewhere in the room, and not in a place that would compete with the fireplace for attention. I mean, it’s not like you are going to be able to hide the thing, so you may as well embrace it.

         That’s why i’d probably also go with a green/white/natural color scheme. The rainbow thing is going to add a lot of look – which may by okay, but has the risk of feeling really busy. On the other hand – I don’t personally consider book spine color part of my decor and ignore that completely in terms of my decorating. Books are there to be books, and not decorative objects, so I would focus my decorating/coordinating efforts on the other things in the room/on the shelves.

   9. I don’t know about most people, but for me bookcases are for books. Where else would I keep my books?

7. I feel so bad for the poster from yesterday who had the Canada Day party planned and all her “friends” no-showed at the last minute after RSVPing yes. Given how often this seems to be happening to different people (including me), it seems like it’s time for us to pushing back directly instead of just letting it go and/or ghosting the friend. I’m not talking about a passive aggressive rant about it on Facebook, but contacting each person individually and saying “hey, it really hurt my feelings when you didn’t come to the party. Actually, not one of the 10 people who RSVPed yes showed up, so I spent a lot of time, money, and effort planning a party and then feeling like an idiot when no one came. I wanted to let you know that it was really hurtful and embarrassing.” Then you can judge whether to continue the friendship based on their response. It doesn’t sound like most people are doing this, but I’m curious why not. There is evidence to suggest that people like and empathize with their friends more when the friends show vulnerability and you’ll also be highlighting how their individual actions contributed to a larger impact (as someone mentioned yesterday).

   Also, related rant: I have a friend who would seek my permission to bail on plans. “Hey, would it bother you if I canceled?” would arrive via text at the last minute. Great, so now you get to assuage your conscience for your rudeness and put the burden on me, making me look high-maintenance and not understanding if I say yes? FTS. It’s just like the people from yesterday who respond with “but let’s make plans soon!!” Fortunately she stopped doing it (for the most part), but I’m going to simply ignore any future texts like that. You want to bail because getting off the couch is hard? That is so not deserving of an understanding text back.

   1. I agree. I think a lot of people think it’s no big deal to bail because other people will be there. Your idea about contacting everyone and letting them know that no one showed is a good one. When they realize that their actions had a bigger impact, hopefully they will learn a lesson.

      1. I agree. Much better than my Facebook idea!

      2. I also agree. When I agree to do something, go somewhere, or meet someone, I do it, even if I don’t feel like I want to later on. It is gauche to flake, yet so many people seem not to care any more when they do this. I feel bad for the woman in Canada, and so should the hive. It is NOT a reflection on her, but on the schmoes she decided to invite. Dad says she should not even talk to those people again and I agree. FOOEY on them!

   2. Amen. I feel like it comes from a place of assuming that if there are numerous other guests, it won’t matter if any individual guest doesn’t show up. The problem, of course, arises when all the guests assume that and don’t come.

      Because of reading so often of this happening to others, I am very diligent about showing up to things when I’ve said we would be there. Even if I’m tired, I tell myself, you don’t have to be the life of the party — you literally just have to be physically present. (Obviously, it’s also ideal if you don’t, like, fall asleep on the sofa or do anything else rude, but you know what I mean.) Thinking of it that way has gotten me through many social events I’m otherwise dreading: all you have to do is show up and smile.

      1. I’m the OP and I’m the same way. I also specifically decline invitations that I know won’t work for me – drinks at 9 pm an hour away from home, etc. Declining in advance isn’t rude, but bailing on the day of is something I have almost never done despite being an introvert millennial who hates the word “self-care” but who isn’t at all opposed to the concept.

      2. I agree. I’m a pretty hard-core introvert (who, ironically, likes hosting things), but I would not dream of treating a friend this way. If you don’t decline upfront, you need to follow through on your commitments, no matter how tired you are or blah blah blah. I’ve gotten to the point where I plan events around 1-2 core friends’ availability so even if everyone else bails, I’ll have a good time with a small group.

         The other trend I’ve noticed, with a few friends, is that they have such a hard-core FOMO mentality that they have zero issues with overbooking themselves and trying to do multiple social events in one evening and making flimsy promises “to try to stop by.” In practicality, it leaves their friends feeling like they don’t matter and that they’re the less attractive option. Just say no if you don’t want to be there, dude.

         We’re all in our late thirties/early forties, so this isn’t millennial behavior by a long shot.

      3. Yeah, what I tell myself is that at a minimum, I have to go for half an hour. Even if I’m feeling super-exhausted, half an hour feels doable. I go, and 99% of the time I’m really enjoying myself and stay for several hours.

         1. This is exactly what I do – if I’m tired, or feeling anxious about a new social situation, I go, but give myself permission to leave at any point if I’m not having fun. Like you, I pretty much always end up staying and being glad I went. :)

            1. Agreed.

   3. I didn’t see that post until this morning and felt terrible about that situation. OP, if you see this, I’m thinking of you and sending you hugs.

      Part of being friends with others is that if they are good friends, you can tell them that they let you down. Hopefully, if you do this, you will get apologies, they will make it right, and it won’t happen again. I’m sorry you even have to be having this conversation in the first place. I’m not sure when it became okay to just casually treat people this way, but it’s hurtful and you are justified in expecting better from the people you care about when they tell you they will be somewhere and they don’t show up.

   4. I do t do that because I’m already embarrassed and I don’t need to humiliate myself further.

      1. +1. Also, I don’t do it often and when I don’t, it’s because I feel like the friendship is precarious or they don’t care (in part because of the bailing) and I fear that if I push back, it will alienate the person further and I’ll risk losing the friend entirely. I know that’s not an authentic way to live and it’s dumb people pleasing and a friendship where you’re not getting your needs met/getting disrespected isn’t a great friendship.. and yet. The better path would be to compassionately and honestly express my disappointment, thus ideally strengthening the friendship, but obviously it’s easier said than done.

      2. This reminds me of something I read in Miss Manners years ago (paraphrasing) “Miss Manners is always surprised at how people who have been the victims of rudeness somehow end up feeling embarrassed or incorrect themselves.”

         I totally understand how the OP feels embarrassed but it makes me SO MAD that she is embarrassed, and not her flaky friends!

   5. In my experience, when people are confronted (even rationally and politely) about bad behavior, they get mad. It casts a pall over the relationship. So I just quietly freeze people out when they have a pattern of bailing. I think your idea is the better and more mature approach. For me, the bottom line is that I have limited time. I want to be with people who are impeccable with their word. If they can’t attend, then they say so. If they say they can attend, they will be there. I really don’t need flakes in my life.

      Also, whenever I’ve hosted a dinner at a restaurant (for milestone birthdays) I’ve had a 100% attendance. People like a free meal at a nice place. So I don’t think the bailing is self care at all. They come when they want to.

      1. Completely agree on this approach. Once someone shows you who they are, believe them and change your actions so you’re not in this situation again. I have frozen out plenty of “friends” who showed a pattern of bailing on stuff last-minute or flaking. As ive gotten older, I prioritize reliability and reciprocity more in friends than just people who I have a good time with but can’t be counted on. I promise it is possible to have a circle of friends that show up, follow through, and don’t bail. But it took work to get to this point, observing patterns, and deciding who got to stay in my life. If your friends are doing this to you repeatedly, they aren’t good friends and it’s time to get some new ones who value you and treat you with the same respect you treat them!

      2. This happened to me with a friend I had been friends with for years.

         She completely took advantage of me, I found out she was lying, and i confronted her.

         I was nice about it. I said look, I know you knew this thing that you should have told me, and you know you should have told me. I forgive you but it hurt my feelings.

         She apologized profusely, and admitted of course because it was so obvious. I thought we were fine.

         But ever since then she has been snarky to me – nothing you could really call her on, but little things that come across as nasty and bitter, but where she could say oh, i was just JOKING, can’t you take a JOKE? – and I now only see her in groups and not one on one anymore.

         She’s clearly mad or annoyed at me. It’s like I’m the one who did something wrong, when I absolutely, objectively didn’t.

         It seems to have cost me the friendship, but I guess finding out who she really is after all these years, or at least finding out who she has become, was worth the unpleasant experience.

         And I do mean that. Don’t sit on feelings of resentment. Express them. It may help you figure out who your real friends are

   6. This isn’t a recent thing. We quit throwing parties almost 15 years ago when we had a Halloween party, 45 people RSVP’d, and six people came. Then similar things happened to our friends and we realized, it’s an endemic problem and entertaining large groups is not worth it anymore. All the parties I see in my social circle any more are political or non-profit fundraisers or baby or bridal showers; no one seems to have parties just to have a party anymore. I think because without a linchpin for the party (like a guest of honor who might be disappointed if people don’t come), parties are easy to blow off.

      1. Maybe this is more a geographic thing? I’m in the midwest and often throw parties. And so do couples in my friend group. I just had a July 4th party where I invited 35 friends and 28 RSVPd yes, all 28 showed up. And most of these people had young kids. I also host a birthday party every summer and maybe have 2-3 people not show up occasionally from the yes rsvps (of 40-50 people) each year. Usually because of a sick child. I’m in my 30s and my social circle loves house parties but we often have restaurant, adult-only, parties too with no issues of people bailing.

         1. I think it is more about what is “acceptable” or “common” in your friend group. I’m in DC, and have one circle of friends where everyone shows up if they RSVP yes and they generally respond as soon as they know what they are doing. For what it is worth, none of these people are attorneys. Then I have a second circle of friends, where everyone is an attorney and most of whom I’ve worked with or who worked with one of my other close attorney friends, and that circle will often not RSVP to invites and will often no-show. I don’t get why it happens in one group but not that other (unless it is simply because the first group is more close-knit and smaller, but sill over 10 people) , but it is a real difference I’ve noticed.

            1. Just tossing it out there, but the attorneys might be reluctant to give a firm commitment because their schedules are unpredictable. If we never say yes then we’re not bailing if we don’t show. It’s not great, but that might be why. When I get together with other attorneys, especially those in private practice, we just understand that plans might get pushed back or rain checked and don’t hold it against each other. Part of this is because we’re relatively junior (and it was even worse when we were super junior). Telling a partner you’re headed out for dinner so you can’t work on that thing that came up is a fast track to unemployment. So is “sorry the brief didn’t get done, I had a bbq to get to.”

   7. One thing that has become clear to me as I’ve gotten older: so much of friendship is just about showing up and creating new shared experiences with people. Laughing together, supporting each other, breaking bread together. Yes, you can nurture a friendship by text. But showing up is effort, and it matters.

      1. +1. This is great advice.

      2. I’ve actually been reading how texting is a real bad way to maintain a friendship. Apparently we lose a ton of the benefits when you’re not there in person to read reactions, bounce ideas off each other quickly, and so on. Our minds and neural connections literally operate differently when we text instead of call/visit and not in a good way.

         1. Hmm, I actually love texting and find being in regular day to day contact with my friends leads to getting together in person and being closer b/c they know the little stuff (bad day at work, random thing I’m reading, etc.) and the bigger things.

            1. +1 – it’s not a replacement for regular in person contact, but it does help me keep in closer contact with those people, because we text about stuff that is on our mind at the moment vs trying to remember for the next time we see each other. So when we see each other in person, it’s a little more seamless because we know the little stuff.

            2. Same here. It makes it way more likely we’re going to make spontaneous plans! I can see how it wouldn’t be so good if you just decide, “I text; that’s good enough,” and don’t make any other efforts to see each other or connect.

         2. It’s great to keep in regular touch with long distance friends. But even with my friends that live in other cities/states/countries we schedule regular skype dates – we literally put a time on our calendar, grab a glass of wine, and settle in for an hour girlfriend chat. It’s a wonderful way to stay connected.

         3. I do have texting friends. Mainly because they’re far away or because our schedules don’t mesh. But they’re not in the same category as friends I regularly see IRL.

      3. I completely agree with this. Showing up is key. I have to say though, I’ve read about the self care flaking, but haven’t (fortunately) experienced it, and I entertain often. That said, I’m in pretty regular communication with my guests up to the event (texting around food restrictions, confirming attendance as I’m going shopping, responding to asks to bring things, etc.). I don’t do things for giant extended groups of looser connections, maybe that’s the issue? Or if you do, make sure your core will show up?

      4. I was called a bridezilla here once for saying that I got closer to the friends who attended my wedding and grew more distant from the ones who didn’t. But I believe that a big part of friendship is showing up, and, at least subconsciously, I felt like putting more time and effort into the friendships with people who showed up for one of the most important days of my life. Not showing up to my wedding doesn’t make anyone a bad person, but it says something about how much our friendship meant to them and how they prioritized it, and I think it’s fair to factor that in moving forward.

      5. My love language, both for giving and receiving, is showing up. I have such little free time that I have Marie Kondo’d my list of people to spend time with down to the few that really want to see and who do not engage in such terrible behaviour as constantly bailing. I will not make plans with two of my high school group for this reason.

      6. I agree with this, but unfortunately for people like me who are geographically isolated from their close friend group, texts/phone calls have to suffice. I can’t afford to visit them very often and vice versa, so I do the best I can with other means.

   8. If I had a friend text and ask if it would bother me to cancel, I would absolutely say yes. And I would let them know it’s incredibly rude to cancel last minute. And I would let her know I don’t really want to make plans with her again.

      I don’t have that many friends, but the ones I do don’t bail on me. I’m in my 40s now and I just don’t have patience any more for a-holes.

      To the OP from yesterday, I am so mad on your behalf. I’m sorry that happened. I think you mentioned you are planning a wedding – I would be very hesitant to invite those no-shows to the wedding.

      1. The “would it bother you if I cancel?” is such a double-edged sword. If you truthfully say yes, then you not only may look “needy,” but even if they say ok and show up, you know they don’t really want to be there! If you say no to smooth things over, then you’re not sticking up for yourself and probably giving them license to do it again.

         It basically seems like people just trying to offload their guilt. What about not responding to such texts? After all, you’re busy preparing to host the party. Then it’s back on them and they have to own their decision.

         1. Exactly! Similarly, I have a friend who will bail and fade away when she dates new guys and then will return to lean on me heavily once it goes south or she starts panicking that it’s going south. She’s started saying “I was really AWOL when I was with him, wasn’t I? Are you upset?” But this is while she’s weeping and on the verge. So what am I supposed to say? I say yes, and I am upset/hurt, then I’m horrible for kicking her when she’s down. I say no, and she’s absolved. It feels manipulative.

            1. Ugh, yes, I’m the OP again and the same friend who did the “would it bother you if I canceled” game would also do the MIA with boyfriend game, then want to call me and vent for hours the second he hurt her feelings. The worst part is that she wouldn’t even acknowledge how absent she’d been or how self-absorbed she was being. She once got angry at me for “not being there” when she asked if I could “hang out,” I said I wasn’t available that night but could do tomorrow, and then she unloaded on me by saying she was sad about ___ that boyfriend had done and it was so unfortunate I couldn’t be there for her in her time of need. Our friendship very nearly ended over that, but we were able to recover in the end.

            2. I mean…honestly it sounds like your friendship should end in general. This sounds like a terribly selfish friend. She isn’t your friend, you’re her unofficial therapist. Friendship is a two way relationship and what you described is not it.

            3. Anon at 11:19, I completely agree. Our friendship very nearly ended over that (and other related issues). It took probably 2-3 years to fully recover and get to a much better place. If those issues were still going on, you better believe we would not be friends anymore, but it’s been a night and day difference and I’m glad I stuck it out. I’m also glad that my friend is out of that toxic relationship and doing much, much better in her own life.

            4. Anon at 11:19 – I know :( I am trying to gear up to have a real conversation about it in hopes that we can salvage it. When she’s present and not drowning herself and others in her insecurities/dating issues, she’s great. And she has been there for me in the past, too.

   9. I didn’t see the OP yesterday. It’s so awful when it happens :( Hugs.

      Agree that it’s not new. It happened to me 15 years ago for my bridal shower, of all things. (Talk about hurt!!) Quick-thinking close friends salvaged it by turning it into a co-ed cookout by inviting their spouses and our neighbors, etc.

      I love to entertain and do it often, but I’ve definitely learned a few tricks along the way. I check with close friends for their availability when considering dates and make sure to find a date that my core group can come. Then I choose a time that works for my broader social group (often Sunday afternoons). Lastly, I invite everybody and their brother so that somebody is likely to show. Making an event a potluck (many of my friends like the involvement but not the pressure of hosting) or being sure to say that there will be kids’ activities has helped as I’ve gotten older.

   10. I have a serious chronic illness that can flare up unpredictably. I’m still getting the impression that I am much more reliable than a lot of people who just don’t feel any sense of commitment. I am feeling frustrated when I think of what I’ve put myself through physically to keep a commitment, and I also feel frustrated that the few times I was actually incapable of attending (like, could not dress myself, let alone handle transportation), my hosts’ patience may have already been worn thin.

       1. Having a chronic illness flare up is totally different than bailing at the last minute just because you don’t feel like it or change your mind. I would not be mad at a friend that had to cancel last minute due to a health issue. And if I knew about said health issue (even just in general terms) I would keep that in mind and even expect that you might not be able to show up even if you had previously accepted.

       2. It sounds like you have crap friends or aren’t actually expressing why you can’t attend which, if the latter, it’s honestly your fault if people get upset with you. If a friend RSVPd and then let me know day of “hey, I’m have a UC flare up and can’t leave the house right now” it’s fine. That’s in the “excused absence” category of “cannot attend because sick”.

       3. Thanks. I think it’s just human nature to lose patience on a subconscious level if someone is unreliable, even if the unreliability is not anyone’s fault? Especially if there’s an unreliability epidemic?

          There are also people who just don’t really understand chronic illness (they seem to believe that every illness either gets better, kills you, or is adequately managed with medication or at least with yoga!). The people who get it get it (it sounds like people here would understand), but I’m okay with having friends who don’t get it too.

          1. I have a friend with a mental health condition that means she sometimes can’t do something we’ve planned. I understand and make plans with her knowing that they may get canceled. Usually, I’m OK rolling with things. Occasionally, my feelings have been hurt, and I’ve waited for her to reach back out when she’s feeling better, but have always accepted her invitations and shown up.

             1. This makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes it’s like the illness is hurting both the person who has it and their friends and family at once.

          2. I think the problem is that it has become common for people who don’t actually have a chronic illness to think that they do have one, or something akin to one. Being an introvert, having a job and being tired, and again with the self-care. I swear to god there are people who would say their introversion puts them in the same category as someone who has lupus.

             1. It almost makes me think they do have something wrong with them. Sitting on the sofa doesn’t actually beat hanging out with friends.

             2. Sitting on the sofa doesn’t actually beat hanging out with friends.

                Oh yes it does. :) I don’t cancel plans, but I am always delighted when someone else does. Doing something social after work or on the weekend always seems like a great ahead a month out, but the closer I get, the more I dread it.

   11. It’s interesting that a lot of people here are (rightly) emphasizing that a big part of friendship is showing up, but we just had a long discussion the other day about how you should just use your words and not go to a bachelorette party if you don’t want to and that if the bride is your real friend, she’ll understand. Judging by today’s conversation, she’s more likely to view you as not showing up for her. I guess if you don’t want to go to a BP, you better be ready for the friendship to be damaged.

       Also, it goes without saying that you don’t RSVP yes to something like that and then bail…it’s even worse for special occasions than it is for regular parties.

       1. No nope not what we’re talking about at all. Also this is such a guy thing to do (maybe women do it too idk) – generalize the issue so much that it obscures what I’m really mad about and makes you look like the good guy. “You’re mad I didn’t come to the party” does not equal “you’re mad I said I would come and then no-showed.” Obviously.

          1. No, the point that a big part of friendship is showing up is very valid. If you don’t show up to bachelorette parties, even if you have a good reason, it may indeed affect your friendship. If you don’t show up when you said you would, I’m not sure that many friendships could survive it at all.

             1. Well, yes, but it’s a 2-way street. The sense I got is that most friends WOULD show up to a BP party they RSVP’d for, but want the hosts to think about the fact that a 3 day $1000 commitment to a party (destination BP) is a big ask. So both parties need to be reasonable (which is based on an understanding of the particular people involved)- in what’s being asked of the guests and what’s being promised to the host.

             2. Let’s not rehash the BP thing, I think we all acknowledge we have different views on reasonable and unreasonable asks of friends.

                I think the focus here is on invites in general, in particular to things like dinner parties and celebrations of non-huge but still important occasions.

             3. But you can show up for friendships in different ways. The friend I see at least once a week – am I sad if she misses my BP, yes but I understand that it is because of X and will see her next week so it doesn’t have much impact on the friendship. The friend I see 2-3 times a year that doesn’t seen to make much of an effort to maintain the friendship or make plans with me – yeah, it is probably going to have some impact on the friendship. But it’s not because she can’t come to the BP, it’s because she doesn’t try to make other plans to catch up when she tells me that she can’t come to the BP.

       2. That’s … not what people are talking about. We’re discussing when people say they are going to come and then don’t show up.

          1. I think anon a mouse at 9:54 and the replies are talking about the importance of showing up, period. Not just saying that ghosting is rude.

             1. Yes, that was me and that’s what I mean – that it IS important to show up. It’s not enough to politely decline invitations in advance all the time. Sometimes you just have to be there.

       3. Omg no stop it. If you can’t go to an expensive party rsvp no. Don’t bring your made up drama to a thread about the real hurt of lots of people rsvping yes to a party you are hosting and then no one coming.

          1. Your friends who RSVP no to your important life events are probably also the ones who blow you off at the last second. Honestly, some people just don’t show up for you, planned or spontaneous, special occasion or casual event, whatever. This is a pattern I’ve observed in my own life and I think It’s worth looking to see if those friendships are worth maintaining. Maybe that isn’t happening to anyone else here, but I definitely see correlations between the friends who bail at the last minute for casual events and the ones who are less likely to show up for the big ones.

             1. I’m sorry you know such rude people. My friends who RSVP no are also my friends who RSVP yes and then attend events they can go to.

       4. … can you not see the difference between declining an invite to an expensive weekend get away and bailing on dinner plans?

          Also, yes, part of the reason we were even discussing the potential social implications of declining bach party invites is precisely because people rightly believe that showing up is important! That’s why people feel conflicted! The question is where to draw the line, for both parties. This is not challenging. Stop trying to make drama.

          1. “Also, yes, part of the reason we were even discussing the potential social implications of declining bach party invites is precisely because people rightly believe that showing up is important!”

             Perfectly said.

       5. We were talking about saying no to invitations, not bailing last minute. Huge difference. Don’t try to conflate the two.

          1. ALSO, there is an enormous difference between saying you can’t afford a $1000+ trip to Vegas or Cancun vs saying you can’t make the backyard BBQ that you already RSVP’d yes to because something better came up/you’re tired/ you’re bingeing Netflix.

   12. I was horrified to read yesterday’s post. I haven’t had that happen, but carelessness about social obligations has left DH and I in the position of not being sure if we are preparing food for 30 or for just a handful. It’s hard to even get people to say “yes” or “no”, which I think is, absent a valid reason, rude in and of itself as it implies that they’re holding out for something better. I’m an Old, so factor that in, but this pearl clutching twinset-wearing Old misses the days when the acceptable reasons for no showing after accepting an invitation were: I am in the hospital or have a communicable illness; My child or other close family member is in the hospital or has a communicable illness; My family member or close friend died; I died. I don’t think it’s a matter of being a stickler for adhering rigidly to rules. I think it’s a matter of focusing on courtesy and consideration for others rather than me, me, me. Rant over. And get off my lawn! Unless, of course, you were invited.

       1. I’m not “an Old” and I feel the exact same way. Especially when an invite to a real event that someone needs to put time and money into is met with a “maybe, I’ll see what I have to do that day” which translates into – “I could go, but something better may come up and I’m letting you know I will schedule over you if something more fun comes along or if I’m a little sleepy”.
          In the situations where I receive a “maybe” I usually respond with a “okay, so that’s a no. If you can show up great but I won’t plan on you coming so won’t reserve a seat/make food for you.” This usually makes them upset because they realize their presence isn’t the end all be all of an event but my internal response is “suck it you rude person”. My external response is a blank stare.

          1. I think your response is totally reasonable. And more people should be taught that, when it comes to RSVPs, if it’s not a “yes,” it’s a “no.”

   13. I’m not sure if I’d raise the issue with everyone up front, but I’d probably pick the 2-3 people whose bailing hurt me the most, because I thought I could count on them if no one else and I was sure they’d be genuinely sorry if they were aware of the impact of their decisions. And then if anyone else asked how the party went, I’d probably then tell them no one showed and see how they reacted.

       It just seems like we’re expected to be so chill and cool with these things, and act like it’s nothing major when it happens. And I think most of us are, at first, but we’re slowly reaching our breaking point. And we’ve seen people reach that breaking point badly, and start posting a slew of passive-aggressive statuses on social media, and we know we don’t want to be THAT person per se, but it’s also hard to do this graciously without actually getting the point across. But as they say on the Awesome Etiquette podcast, honesty is a part of etiquette, as is kindness and consideration, and if someone hasn’t shown you consideration or respect, I think you do have a right to be honest about your feelings, at least with those closest to you.

   14. I’m really surprised to hear people think this is an introvert or millennial thing. I’m and “old millennial” (33) and the biggest introvert of all time (seriously, spending more than an hour with anyone who isn’t my husband, kid, parents or lifelong BFF is draining for me) and I would never just not show up to an event I’ve RSVPed yes to. I’ve only backed out at the last minute a couple times and with a good reason. I turn down invitations all the time (and when I hear people talking about “self care” I think that’s what they mean – knowing that it’s ok to say no and not over commit yourself) but I would never say yes and then just no-show, and I don’t know anyone would think that’s acceptable in the name of self care.

       1. Turning down the invitation is what SHOULD be the self-care for an introvert, but you get people who think their introversion means they can use that as a get-out-of-jail card when they overcommit to things because they can’t say no (to other people or themselves).

          1. Yeah, I hate when introverts do that (as an introvert myself) because it gives off this impression that we’re all anti-social, rude cave dwellers who can’t handle basic social niceties or an hour in the sunlight. I avoid overscheduling myself (and seriously, one social obligation in a weekend might be too much depending on how my life is going), but I never, ever cancel at the last minute or no-show, even if going is the last thing I want to do.

   15. 100% agree. Also, I just think it’s healthy to air your grievances/voice your concerns. I’ve had many friendships die over the years because either I or they never spoke up about issues and let resentment build up over a long period of time. If you don’t speak up, even though it may seem obvious, they likely have no clue you’re upset by their actions.

   16. I had this happen in college on St. Patrick’s day, I invited all of my friends and literally none of them showed up. It was so long ago but I’ve been truly afraid to “put myself out there” socially since.

   17. You are SO right. Don’t text, facebook,etc,,, Call. Speak. Make it clear what happened,Hear their tone of voice. I feel so bad too.

8. Is it true you really can’t (or shouldn’t) close credit cards you aren’t using? I have one from Citi that has a zero balance. We never use it because the rewards program is awful. We do use another card that we pay off in full every month that gives cashback rewards. No other CC debt. We just bought a house last year and I won’t need a car loan or lease for at least another 2-3 years (hopefully). My credit score was 798 last year when we got our mortgage. Can’t I just close this dumb card so I don’t have to worry about it? The credit limit on our cash back rewards card is high enough to cover literally anything we would ever need to use credit for (like $30k).

   1. If you don’t need a loan in the next year or so, it’s probably fine to close it.

   2. Yes it’s fine to close it. Super minor hit that wont matter.

   3. I wouldn’t close it if you need a loan in the next six months, but it’s otherwise fine. You could also try requesting a credit limit increase on your main card to offset the dip a little.

   4. If you really don’t use it at all and haven’t for years, eventually the card company will close the account, so might as well do it yourself now (unless, as others have said, you have immediate plans for a loan).

   5. I agree with everyone else that it is fine to close it. But, it sounds like you will just have one credit card then. I would consider whether it would be better to have two in case your account is compromised and it takes a few days to get the new card, you are traveling and lose the card, a place doesn’t take that type of card, etc. I’ve always heard it is good to have at least two cards, so I have one that I use for all of my online purchases and one that I use for in-person, and one that I use for recurring charges such as the gym and Netflix.

      1. I’ve had situations where I’ve been traveling and one card for whatever reason doesn’t run (and it’s always weird, like $2.50 for ice cream in Philly is suspicious, but $500 at a Reiss in London or an absurd night out in Dubai is a-OK), so I like having a second one for that reason. If I were OP, I’d close the no-rewards card and sign up for a Chase Sapphire or United Visa – something with a big initial point bonus – and keep that as a reserve (and enjoy a free flight).

9. Timothy the paper mache mouse made it to the Daily Mail! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7238555/Woman-reveals-laws-speak-MOUSE-FIGURINES.html

   1. Oh my GOD, I had not read this before. That is just mystifying. WTF?

      1. Same, I have so many questions but no words!

         1. My main question is why she is willingly reproducing with a member of this family!

   2. OMG! I spent way too long enjoying the threads on this! Is the original reddit thread deleted? I so badly want to hear back from the OP on this one!

   3. Holy crap on a cracker!

10. Good Morning! I am traveling to Sicily at the end of the summer and likely staying in Catania. Any tips or recommendations for a trip with friends? We are looking for beaches/scenery and delicious food. Thanks in advance!

11. I will sing the praises of the LOFT doubleweave trousers because I have several pairs. However, I can’t recommend them for summer because they’re just too hot. They are a good three-season pant, though!

    1. I have a pair and like them okay. The fit is a little odd for me. I could get them tailored, but it’s not that off, and tailoring pants so cheap feels weird. So then I just don’t wear them as much, which is stupid, I know. I got another pair of Loft pants through Infinitely Loft though that are perfection–seriously, the pants I’ve been looking for for years. Here’s the link: https://www.loft.com/loft-plus-high-waist-wide-leg-trousers-in-marisa-fit/501745
       I am in love with these pants.

12. My meeting at the Lords finishes at 2pm on Wednesday and my train doesn’t leave Kings Cross until 7 so I have ages to kill. I could work in a cafe but I feel in need of a bit of downtime / self-care. What should I do?

    1. Find a Cowshed location and go get whichever of pedicure or manicure is your thing. I love their spas – I find them really relaxing. Or roll into Dishoom and have a leisurely lunch.

    2. British Library! Or there’s an open air swimming pool in Covent Garden.

    3. What counts as downtime to you? You could spend a couple of hours in the British Museum, wander around the Frieze sculptures in Regent’s Park, drink cocktails at a bar in the St Pancras hotel or coffee by the canal at Granary Square…?

13. I spent 2 weeks in Sicily! My favorites were Taormina (although it will be mobbed in August), Syracuse, and the neolithic cave cemetery in the canyon (I forget what it’s called). If you have time, I would highly recommend hopping the fast ferry to Malta – I loved Malta.

    1. My favorites were Morgantina and Agrigento, but they did not feature beaches and delicious foods. I definitely felt Aquaman was onto something when it chose a Sicilian seaside town to represent “quality of life on earth” to an Atlantean.

    2. The “neolithic cave cemetery” is Pantalica – really cool, but we were in Sicily primarily for the archeology not the beaches so YMMV. For beaches, have you considered the Aeolian islands just off the north-east of Sicily? Easy to get to, beautiful.

14. What did you compromise on when buying a house? I have a combo guest room/office instead of two separate rooms. Having a garage, yard for dog, laundry upstairs, and quick access to the main road I take to work were worth the trade off.

    1. That seems like a good compromise. My biggest “must haves” were a good location, a newer house (didn’t have to be brand new but I didn’t want something from 1900), a minimum of four bedrooms (us, guest, child, home office) – preferably five or four plus den so we could have separate home offices, a basement (unfinished was fine, just wanted somewhere to go during tornadoes), an open floor plan, a two story great room, and I guess also a garage and a yard but we live in suburbia and there are no single family homes that don’t have those. I figured pretty much everything else I could paint/renovate. I got all of those except the two story living room (we have a two story entryway though). I also dislike that our laundry is in our mudroom (it means when you drop something removing it from the washer it has to be washed again because mudrooms are GROSS).

    2. The location and not having a garage. But it’s not our forever house. So although the location/neighborhood isn’t where I would want to spend the rest of my years, it’s a great spot for a rental (our long-term plan). But, man, I miss having a garage! Got the house for a steal though.

    3. Caveat that live in the South where houses are younger and bigger: 3/4 useable bedrooms (in my city townhomes are built up to three and four stories so the third bedroom is a separate weird room by itself on the same floor as the garage while the rest are on the third floor – it can only be used as an office or guest room not as a family bedroom because it’s too far), W/D as a separate small room, within 20 minutes drive of the City’s downtown core, driveway with attached garage, backyard with at least enough room for a patio w/ table and chairs and a small dog run, a separate family room from the living room. NOT STUCCO (ask me how I know, any damage costs thousands to repair). I’m not particular on a separate dining room or office, although that would be nice since I’ve never lived in a home where the dining room was regularly used – in fact most “dining rooms” in friends homes I see now have been turned into small offices or play rooms.

       1. This is not a thing where I come from, so I’m curious: what’s the purpose/the different uses of a separate living room and family room?

          1. Living room is more formal, usually the space when you first enter the home. Family room is for the television and often doubles as a playroom. Much more casual.

             I am in the minority (when I look at all the new builds in my NoVa suburb) but we adamantly wanted a separate living room and family room on the same floor. Not one big “great room” for everything. We spend a lot of time reading in our living room by the fireplace. The family room gets used on weekends or late at night for television. As our kid gets older it will be nice to have a separate place for kids and adults.

             We compromised on lot size and having a coat closet (old house!) but got the location that we wanted for a short commute and overall house size, plus the layout works well for us.

    4. Bedrooms and closets are a little smaller than I’d like (built 1947), but it’s just me, so I can use all of the rooms. It would have been nice to have the upstairs/attic bedroom finished a bit nicer, but that’s fixable. Didn’t get as many south facing windows as I wanted, but the house is light/bright in general, so it’s hard to complain.

       Generally, I’m pretty happy and don’t really feel like I compromised.

    5. I compromised on location. I’d like to be closer to work, but I need a reasonably modern home within budget and with designated parking. I learned that there are basically two options in my preferred neighborhoods: shiny new condos/THs that are crazy expensive, or 100 year old THs/SFHs that haven’t been updated for a long time (think: plaster walls and knob and tube wiring) and most don’t have a designated parking spot nevertheless a garage. So I have a place that’s a bit farther away but is within the budget and won’t require pricey upgrades before I can sell it. And I have an attached garage, which wasn’t necessarily on my list, but now that I have one I don’t think I can give it up.

    6. Since we had other priorities for our budget and the housing market was awful in our price range, we opted for reliable and functional over pretty money pits in need of major work. For example, fugly faux wood paneling in nearly every room and entry level but working fixtures everywhere, but all major systems are in good working order and the layout maximizes the square footage with excellent storage throughout.

    7. We compromised on not having a garage and being on a less desirable street in our dream neighborhood. Our lot/yard is on such a steep incline there no place to build a garage either.

    8. Bought a condo on the first floor so don’t have a great view, and with 1.5 bathrooms instead of 2 and with 1 bedroom instead of 2 (although that is seeming like a benefit because we never used as in never went into the second bedroom in our prior apartment anyways). Location, having a very up to date condo, not having a galley kitchen, having side by side parking, and having lots of sq footage was worth it.

    9. Hooo boy. My husband and I have to compromise on everything. He loves brand new, and modern houses. I wanted a smaller, historic (not cookie-cutter) house we could pay off aggressively. We compromised on a 90s house that has the layout that we wanted, but also had lots of updated features from the original owners (built-ins, nice hardwoods, great front porch, etc). Location-wise, I thought it was good but not great, but after moving here, I realize it’s actually an excellent location for my husband and I. (Access to 2 highways is much better than the access to 1 we had before).

    10. I compromised on house size (one of the smallest 3BR SFHs you can get in this city) and price (a bit more than what I would have liked to have spent) for neighborhood (close in to town, diverse, more walkable than a most places in a city where that’s not a priority) and proximity to work.

    11. DH and I are in the process of closing on our starter home. Our must haves were 3 bedrooms/2 bathrooms , relatively new (not new new, but not built in the 20s either), decent commute, office space, and reasonably updated kitchens/bathrooms (not top of the line but not too horrible either). We ended up finding a 4 bed, 3.5 bath townhouse with an amazing kitchen that was built in the 90s – our main tradeoff is that there’s parking in front of the house but no driveway/garage, and the master bath is functional but not sytlish (think basic white tiling, bland vanity, etc.). Other than that, the house is actually perfect for us, so the tradeoff is well worth it (especially since I grew up without a driveway or garage, so I’m used to it).

    12. I don’t have a dishwasher (very small house, very small kitchen) or bathtub (very small house, very small bathroom), but the rest of my house is absolutely perfect so I didn’t mind. I hadn’t lived with a place with a dishwasher in many years, so that wasn’t too bad but I will say I do miss being able to take baths.

    13. I compromised on yard size and the distance between houses. It was so important to us to be in a particular school district that we decided to put up with close neighbors. I am happy to say that our neighbors have become our best friends.

        1. Same

    14. I compromised on the kitchen and resale value. The kitchen needs to be remodeled, and the price was low enough that we can handle that in a few years–in the meantime, it’s actually worse than we expected. It’s not small but so poorly laid out that somehow there’s not enough space for more than one person to actually cook. Also, the house will probably not appreciate much or sell quickly due to being in a kind of weird neighborhood (not a bad or unsafe neighborhood, just a little awkwardly located)–but it’s close to my work and kid’s school and convenient to highway, and we hope it will be our forever house.

        We did end up with a single-family home, within our budget, with a fenced-in yard, in the general area we wanted. Bonuses are a 4th bedroom and 3rd bathroom (we needed at least 3/2), a garage, a ton of storage inside, and an absolutely lovely sun room and outdoor space.

    15. Location for price. Could have gotten something 15 minutes closer to work, but it would have cost $100k more or been significantly smaller and/or uglier (yes, somehow 15 minutes really does make that big of a difference in price in my town). My northern-born husband would say we compromised by just having a one car garage, but I’m southern and at no point in my life has anyone in my family actually put a car in a garage despite having them (garages are for storage, y’all).

    16. Our biggest compromise was location. I work in one of the most expensive parts of town and my husband works much further away so that’s what we had to do. We did get a nice house though, we’re in a good school district, and we’ve made friends so while I was pretty disappointed at first, it’s been great.

    17. What I got: spacious, functional, updated kitchen with a gas oven, perfectly-sized fenced-in yard for my dog, fireplace, off-street parking, dining room, laundry room (as opposed to a washer and dryer stuck in the kitchen or hall closet or unfinished basement), good layout inside and out to have people over, natural light, general location (7 minutes from work)

        What I gave up: second bathroom (I’m in a 2/1 but wanted a 2/2 or 3/2), two stories, garage, specific location (my favorite neighborhood starts five blocks to the north)

    18. Gave up: attached garage, true guestroom (we have a guest bed in the basement playroom instead), good natural light (we have a long and narrow townhouse), renovated kitchen. The natural light is the only thing I might do differently next time. We did get our exact preferred location – not just neighborhood, but the specific block. If one of the end units on our block ever goes up for sale, we will jump on it in a heartbeat.

        1. Oh, and we also gave up a ground-floor toilet. Which it turns out I don’t miss at all, even though I really wanted one when we were looking.

    19. I was ready to compromise on having a window in the bathroom (lots of old flats where I am have internal bathrooms) and having space for a bathtub. In the end the flat I found has a huge window in the bathroom and a bathtub in said bathroom. I did revise my search from wanting a two bedroom place to wanting a place with a separate living room. So instead of one kitchen-dining-living room (very common where I am) I have a dining kitchen with a separate living room, so when I have guests on the sofa bed I can make a coffee and breakfast without waking them up. I refused to compromise on having a kitchen window (again, internal kitchens are really common here).

    20. Got what I wanted:
        – great price, just over half as much as other homes we were seriously considering
        – fantastic zoned elementary school within a 5-minute walk
        – huge master bathroom (2 sinks, water closet, tub, shower) and walk-in master closet
        – 4 bedrooms
        – walkable (half mile) to cute coffee shops/restaurants/shopping
        – 5 minutes from daycare, 20 minutes from work
        – tons of storage, huge closets in all bedrooms and off living room and front hall
        – has an office (albeit tiny)

        What was not ideal:
        – fantastic zoned middle and high schools
        – the house is old, so all that entails — had to replace electrical, replace AC, finishes are outdated, doors don’t close quite right, repaint exterior
        – outdated/ugly kitchen appliances (already replaced fridge, living with an electric cooktop for now)
        – fully functional/accessible garage (we use it as storage)
        – open floor plan — our living room is awkwardly small and closed off from the kitchen
        – backyard is not conducive to spending time outside — hard to get to and no deck or patio to sit on
        – rental property of college kids next door (though knock on wood this has not actually been a problem, other than they don’t provide potential friends for our kids and sometimes leave their trash bins out for days on end)

        Listing all these things has actually made me very grateful for our home! The things we compromised on are “nice to haves” that don’t actually mean all that much — and I suppose that’s how it’s supposed to work!

15. Help! Looking for tv shows DH and I can watch together. I like plot and character driven shows, with an emphasis on sff or historical drama. I don’t particularly like a lot of graphic violence and DH doesn’t like sci-fi/ fantasy. There’s so much out there I don’t know where to start.

    Shows I enjoyed but DH didn’t:
    – Star Trek, firefly, downton abbey, Sherlock, good omens, American gods

    Shows we have enjoyed together:
    – West wing, Fraser, planet earth, formula 1

    Shows DH enjoyed but I didn’t:
    – law & order, MASH, the bodyguard, Dexter, Barry, mad men, friends

    1. Veronica Mars? – Currently streaming on Hulu, new episodes coming out the end of July. Plot/character driven, but not historical/sci-fi. It’s film noir meets HS, with a strong female lead. And then when you’re done with that, go watch iZombie, which is basically VMars with zombies (in the best way).

    2. Are you ok with very vulgar comedy? If so, maybe Veep? People say that The West Wing is what people think Washington is, and Veep is what it really is.

       1. +1, both for how excellent (if crude) and hilarious it is, and for how closely it mirrors DC (esp right now)

    3. Madam Secretary. Do not delay!

       1. +100! Also Parks and Recreation for a comedic spin on the weird world of public service. I didn’t like the first few episodes, but now I’m a fan.

       2. +1 million!

       3. started watching this last week and really enjoying it. Also, designated survivor. Long story short I am taking a mental break from real politics by watching fake politics. Yes, yes I do have some issues :)

    4. The Fall with Gillian Anderson and Jamie Dornan – it is a police procedural with super intense character arcs.

    5. Divorce on HBO

    6. We watch the Chicago series on NBC (Chicago Fire, Chicago Med, Chicago PD). That may be a little too similar to L&O for you to like (and some of them have more violence than others but overall not too bad; certainly nothing like Dexter, for example), but maybe check it out. It’s pretty much the only TV we watch together.

    7. I don’t know what “sff “ is but I think you both would love deadwood! And Justified if you need more of Timothy (which we all do).

       1. Science fiction/fantasy

       2. I love Timothy O so much. I am gutted that there are going to be no more seasons of Santa Clarita Diet. Guess I will watch my dvd of Catch and Release a few more times.

    8. Start with A Very English Scandal (Amazon)
       After that:
       Good Fight is fantastic (CBS All Access)
       Man in the High Castle (Amazon)
       Sneaky Pete (Amazon) — not really SF or drama but more of a caper, really fun
       Wolf Hall (Amazon)

    9. Good Wife, Good Place

    10. Good compromise shows for us are Expedition Unknown and Mysteries at the Museum. They’re educational – and just from their titles SEEM like they could be stuffy – but they’re really cool. We’re both well read and learn about stuff we’ve never even heard of all the time on these shows.

        1. I LOVE Mysteries at the Museum but I am a big ol’ museum nerd.
           I’m also going to suggest Fleabag because even though I’m just a few episodes in it is really, really good.

    11. Boston Legal. On Hulu.

    12. Documentaries
        Losers (documentary series on Netflix) — the Torquay Soccer club episode is hilarious and the Surya Bonaly and Micheal Brent ones are fascinating and deeply affecting.
        Man on Wire
        Any of the Ken Burns series — Civil War and Prohibition in particular

        Suspense/thriller/long plot arc character-driven historical:
        The Americans
        Babylon Berlin (but watch it with subtitles, the dubbing is HORRIBLE)
        Bletchley Circle

        SFF but might do for your husband too:
        Maybe Luke Cage on Netflix — it’s Marvel, but very character and plot driven, the acting is great. Same with Agent Carter — not too superheroey, set in WW2, very character driven.

        Other possibilities: MI5, Person of Interest, if you both liked Fraser try Cheers or Monk, someone said that weirdly, Gilmore Girls is a lot like the West Wing (can’t comment, haven’t watched either), maybe Scandal before it went totally off the rails.

        If you google “shows like “West Wing” or “Planet Earth” you will get more recommendations.

        1. The Americans is extremely violent. The violence was off-putting to me and I like/d Barry and Dexter. (Admittedly i didn’t make it past the first couple episodes, perhaps the tone changes dramatically.)

           1. Huh, I’m not remembering it as particularly violent in terms of the whole series but I have a high tolerance. I don’t think it’s violent every episode, but you are correct that there are some episodes where very violent things happen.

16. I am going to Venice and Croatia (Rovinj, Split, Hvar, Dubrovnik) at the end of August. Does anyone have recommendations for places to eat in any of those places? Thanks!

    1. Are you cruising or doing this independently? Just curious bc this sounds like a great itinerary.

    2. Awesome itinerary!

       – Dalmatino in Hvar had wonderful truffle dishes including some of the best steak I had in Croatia.
       – If you have time to sail out to Paklinski Islands from Hvar (highly recommend! a lot of day sailing tours can be joined day-of), Zori Restaurant & Lounge was very nice
       – In Split, Bokeria Kitchen & Wine Bar came recommended — it was super busy and bustling when I was there though, and I couldn’t get a reservation
       – In Dubrovnik, I enjoyed Zuzori and Segreto Pasta & Grill. Restaurant 360 is a Michelin starred restaurant in the old city that overlooks the ocean — friends have loved it. Also check out Dubrovnik House just in front of Restaurant 360 if you get a chance — I had excellent wine and gift recommendations (mostly truffle oil and chips related) from the staff.

       1. Location/views of Restaurant 360 was amazing, but I didn’t love the food as much as I expected.

          In split, Corto Maltese was great for lunch.

    3. I did Split, Hvar, Dubrovnik in that order in August 2012 and it was amazing. I don’t remember where we ate and was a pescatarian back then, but everything was great. Enjoy the trip – it was so so hot but so so amazing!

    4. Rovinj is so beautiful, all of Istria is great! It’s a little farther and requires a car, but we ate by Lim Fjord and it was delicious and gorgeous. There are 2 restaurants right next to each other, we went to the one that had more people (I want to say it was on the right if you’re looking at them).
       Split, there was this amazing restaurant that was away from the hustle and bustle called Konoba Hvaranin. Literally just googled restaurants rn to look at photos of the inside to remember what it was called. My husband had the best pasticada there, and we sent our friends there on their honeymoon months later.
       If you’re interested in a day trip from Split, look into Klis. Game of Thrones was filmed there, and we had some of the best lamb in my life. We knew about the lamb dish prior to going, and some locals helped us find the restaurant.
       Dubrovnik the food was fairly disappointing, but it is beautiful. If you’re looking for something to do, I loved Lokrum: it’s an island filled with wildlife, peacocks walk freely and are very bold. GOT was also filmed there. It was one of the highlights of our trip, and the boat back gives you a great view of the city.
       Let me know if you’d like any other recommendations! You are going to have such a wonderful time! Also, by Split/Hvar I’d look into a boat cruise to see the blue cave tour.

       1. Okay, a few more suggestions: in Istria (hopefully you have a car), if you go to Motovun, there is this amazing restaurant called Konoba Mondo. My husband found it from a NYT article I believe. It was very well priced and generous with truffles. I also think we were given a free appetizer and free rakia.
          In Dubrovnik, there is a bar on the outside of the wall. Walk along the ocean side, and there is a small hidden door. The views are incredible, prices are a little higher but you can sit outside of the city walls which is pretty cool.

    5. Not what you requested, but my favorite activity in Italy was taking a kayak tour of the canals in Venice! Venice kayak dot com. They were well-organized, even took pictures of us all along the way so we weren’t trying to wrangle phones and dropping them in the canals.

    6. Not sure if you’re still reading, but Villa Spitza in Split. Go early, though! They run out of some of the dishes if they turn out to be popular that night.

17. Thanks to posters a few weeks ago who recommended that I convert my trip from Portland, ME + Cape Cod to Portland, ME + Bar Harbor/Maine Coast! DH and I spent a week in Maine, mostly in Portland and Bar Harbor with a few stops along the way, it was absolutely lovely. Acadia was breathtaking. We explored Mt. Desert Island as well and that was a blast. The food was incredible (the lobster roll at Eventide was one of the best things I’ve ever eaten). Great vacation!

    1. Yay! MDI/Acadia is my favorite place on earth (I got married there) so I’m always excited to hear people visited for the first time and loved it.

       1. I visited Bar Harbor and Acadia for the first time this summer and LOVED it. SO peaceful. I can’t wait to go back.

18. I’m planning a beach day-trip from DC. The group will be about 10 people, all in our early 30s. Ideally, we would love a beach that we can just relax at, that isn’t mainly or exclusively families, and that has a boardwalk. We also want to go to a sit down restaurant for lunch. Any recommendation for beaches?

    1. There aren’t really any real beaches (on the ocean) that are a day trip from DC unless you don’t mind a very long day (3+ hour drive each way). For a very long day trip to the ocean I’d do Virginia Beach or Rehobeth Beach

       If you don’t mind your beach being on the Bay, North Beach in Calvert County has a beach, a boardwalk, and a little downtown with some great restaurants

    2. Rehoboth or Bethany is my rec, but I agree it’s tough to do in a day.

    3. Rehoboth

19. Luggage recommendation-
    My daughter is headed to college this fall and her rollaboard bag just broke. It was a cheapie from Amazon.

    I would like to buy her another 22” carry on compliant bag but I’m not in the Tumi or Briggs and Riley price range for this. She might use her roller on a flight 3-4 times per year, more often in the car.

    I’ve heard Travelpro recommended here. Any other suggestions?

    I’d like to keep it under $200.

    1. Away is $225 but would otherwise be a good fit. The built-in battery would probably be a big plus for a college student.

       1. You can get codes from a lot of podcasts for Away which offsets the price a bit – I think KEEPIT is one.

       2. I don’t know anything about Away, but do not get a suitcase with a built-in battery unless it is easily removable. They can’t be checked unless the battery is removed, so if the plane runs out of overhead bin space or it’s a tiny plane and you have to gatecheck, you’re out of luck.

          1. Yes, it is easily removable.

          2. The new version of the Away bag allows the battery to pop out with the push of a button.

    2. Eagle Creek. Lifetime warranty, very durable, sporty vibe that’s good for college students.

    3. Honestly for a college student’s luggage, I’d go to TJMaxx or Marshalls and get a name brand luggage. The times I’ve checked there is usually at least Samsonite level brands, and lots of hard back varieties. The luggage will get beaten up from college road trips, study abroad, trips back home. I wouldn’t invest in something super nice until after graduation.

       1. Speaking as a recent college student, this worked for me.

       2. The TJMaxx and Marshall stores near my home currently have full Samsonite sets that combined hit right under that. I got a bag similar to what you’re asking from (Samsonite) for about $50. It’s amazing. I won’t ever pay full price for luggage again.

    4. an away bag! they’re indestructable, in your price range, and in fashion.

    5. I got a SwissGear hardside spinner on major discount a few years ago and love it.

    6. Thanks all. I showed her all of these and she really wanted the Away in white. So Gen Z!

       Will report back on what we think of it when it gets here.

       1. Ps I was able to find a $20 coupon for the Away pretty easily so it was cloooose to on budget!

    7. I have a Delsey that has been pretty indestructible.

       1. Me too.

          1. I have a Delsey rollaboard that I love, and I just bought a 25 inch checkable case. eBags often has coupons.

    8. Travelpro! I love mine!

    9. Hays from Costco.

       1. Mom of two college girls here. Take into account whether she will have space to store the suitcase in her dorm room. Mine did, but I have seen others recommend taking giant duffle bags instead. They can be shoved under beds.

          1. I hear you. We are fortunate that she’s going to a school with relatively large dorm rooms. She has a bed with lots of clearance underneath as well as her own full length closet. Speaking of the tours down below, I really think the dorm rooms helped sell her on this college!

    10. I asked for luggage recommendations a couple of weeks ago and a lot of people suggested travel pro. I picked up a 22ich one from Tjmaxx for around $80 and it worked well for my trip. The wheels seem sturdy and the bag seemed well designed. Thanks for the recommendations from others a couple of weeks ago!

    11. I bought a Roxy one as a student in 2014 and I’m still using it. The fact that the top half is soft makes it much easier to store and also it’s very adaptable to being overpacked or to being packed smaller for a stricter airline.

    12. I got a giant Tumi duffle bag and a smaller Tumi duffle bag when I was in high school. I have used it so much. I still have it after 30 years and still use it. Maybe they used to make things better.

    13. Costco has several brand-name options right now for amazing prices. I got a Delsey hardside carry on for $50 and it’s great. They also have Samsonite sets.

20. I have a question about college visits for high schoolers – do you visit before you apply? I was a 4.0 honors/AP student with top test scores, so when I was a junior in high school, my parents took me on a big tour of elite East Coast colleges. It worked out – I got into some of the schools we visited and attended one of them – but in hindsight it seems sort of silly to me to tour colleges before you’re admitted. What if you fall in love with a place and then don’t get in? Especially if the only schools you’re touring are elite private colleges? Doesn’t it make more sense to apply to a mix of schools, some more attainable than others, and then visit the ones you’ve been accepted to and are most interested in? I know a lot of the Ivies have “admitted students weekends” and things like that. My daughter is a little young for this (12) but it’s something I’m starting to wonder about. DH and I have discussed taking her to visit at least our alma maters, but I don’t want to get her heart set on these elite schools and then be heartbroken when she doesn’t get in.

    1. Yes always visit as many campuses as you can. We started sophomore year. Another mom on my daughters club team said, from this point on you should be visiting at least one college campus any time your family goes anywhere. So that’s what we did – we are in CA so it’s a major undertaking just to visit all the in state campuses, but we visited some out of state as well. We only took one trip specifically designed to see college campuses, the rest were tacked onto family vacations and sports related travel.

       If we hadn’t done this, I don’t think my daughter would even have applied to the college she ended up choosing. Do it! You don’t have to sign up for a formal tour if the timing doesn’t work out. Just walk around the campus.

       1. We sort of did this. We took a trip to the northeast over Christmas break my junior year of high school. It didn’t even matter that the campuses were closed because this southern girl couldn’t handle the cold. So I knew not to bother with northeast schools. :)

    2. You absolutely should – it helps you narrow down your list and also target your applications better. My friend’s daughter loved several schools on paper but tacked on another one to a longer college visit because it was nearby and ended up falling in love with that one and eventually going there.

    3. I was just thinking about this. I grew up in the northeast, privileged — went on a few tours of schools in different areas (w/in driving distance) jr year that included reaches and safeties. It totally influenced my decision (I was smitten with an Ivy where I had done a summer program, but ended up applying early to a small, liberal arts college that wasn’t really on my radar before I visited). If you can afford the travel & time off, it makes sense to me to visit a variety of schools in an area.

    4. I actually didn’t find the visits useful at all. You get such a sanitized version of whatever you’re looking at when you do an official tour or just drop into campus. I had a lot of friends who were a year or two older than me, so I went and stayed with them overnight for a night or two (including going to their classes if I could be there on a weekday during school vacation or something) at as many different schools as I could over my junior and senior years. If your daughter ends up in a position to do this, I would highly, highly recommend it over tours. With a day or two to visit, you actually get to see what it feels like to be a student – what the eating options are, the vibe in the dorms, where people go to hang out, how they interact with their professors, etc. I got such bad info about all the schools where I only had a tour compared to the lived experiences reported by friends who actually ended up in those places.

       (All that said, if your daughter doesn’t end up with contacts at schools in which she’s interested, then I’d do tours vs. doing nothing. Agree with others that it’s hard to tell on paper what a school will really be like.)

       1. I agree that you get a sanitized version with the tours, but I don’t think they’re completely useless. I crossed several schools off my list because I was turned off by the admissions staff, tour guides, etc. I figured if I reacted negatively to the message those people were sending, it was probably going to be a bad fit.

          I absolutely agree that it’s even better to spend the night and visit a class, etc. The school I eventually chose had a program to do that in addition to the tours.

       2. Usually the admissions office will have student volunteers who will host prospective students and then you can either attend classes with your host or from a list provided by the admissions office. Definitely recommend doing this and wanted to point out that you can do it even if you don’t personally know any students at the school to host you.

    5. don’t have a college age child, but I know the tours I did of both east coast schools and the UCs were super useful. I ended up attending two of those schools for grad school/law school and the school I went to for college, I did a summer program at the summer before my senior year of high school. Definitely useful to check them out, you never know at what point in your child’s education she might end up going.

    6. I think it’s also helpful to visit schools to get an idea of type of school/location they like. E.g. if you’re going to DC, visit college park for the classic college campus that’s huge and pretty, GW for one right in the city, Georgetown for a more elite, etc.. If they find they don’t like being right downtown, then BU probably won’t be a good fit for them, but maybe BC is worth considering.

       1. We visited a ton, some of which my daughters didn’t get into. It was fun, and a good way for them to figure out what they wanted in a campus. Admitted students’ days are a blast because the schools tend to roll out the red carpet, but I wouldn’t wait for these.

    7. Absolutely. You should know what you want in a school. I toured one school that I loved on paper and hated once on campus. I loved my alma mater once I toured, much more than I expected.

       Beyond that, it’s important for admissions. In elite universities, they keep track of “demonstrated interest,” and kids need to talk coherently about why they want to attend.

       1. +1 to this. Visiting campus officially (not a stealth visit) is an important signal to colleges since they are looking to maximize their yield (students matriculating/students admitted)

       2. Yes, I toured a few I thought I’d love summer before junior year (I think? Maybe right before senior year). Once I got there i realized I hated it. I specifically remember saying to my mom “This sucks. The campus is dark and creepy.” Took that one off. Another one felt Ultra Super Religious in person but not on paper and I did not like it at all.

    8. I was always very realistic about college and only toured placed I applied, pre-admittance, but I got into my top choice (competitive State U). I have several cousins who toured pre-application and hadn’t seemed to narrow the field at all…they all seemed more interested in touring schools that, kindly, they didn’t have a chance at getting into. I’m talking, very average grades and test scores touring Ivies, and Ivy-quality schools abroad. It just seemed like a huge waste to me, from an outside perspective.

    9. I started going Sophomore year in high school and did several in the fall of my Junior year. Honestly, I found visits to be a huge help because it not only helped me narrow down the type of school I wanted to go to (big vs small, urban vs suburban) but it also helped me cross specific schools off my list. I actually decided not to apply to a school that had pretty much everything I wanted on paper because I thought the signature building style was ugly. When my final decision was narrowed down to two schools, I ended up choosing the school I had the AMAZING tour at vs the school I had a so-so tour at (there were definitely other reasons at play, but this was not insignificant). My parents still talk about the AMAZING tour at the school I ended up choosing almost 10 years later.

    10. I took a road trip with my mom to look at colleges I think junior year and found it helpful because I ended up NOT applying to most of the schools I thought I would apply to after I visited, and decided to apply to (and then went to) a school that I thought I didn’t want to go to and only visited because a friend was doing a summer program there and it was on our way to look at other colleges.

    11. I did visit colleges before I applied and did fall in love with a school that didn’t admit me. That really sucked, but I got over it, because in the end that’s a level of disappointment that you have to learn to live with in life.

    12. I don’t want to start a war, but this is something I’ve noticed: a parent of a daughter will consider doing something objectively good and productive (e.g., touring college campuses), but will think that it could cause “heartbreak” (and that is *always* the word used) in said daughter… so it doesn’t get done.

        Manage expectations. I wish that my parents had been less emotional about the college application process, because the whole business of encouraging a kid to get their heart set on something not in their control is… odd.

        1. OP here. I see your point but I’m thinking mostly of myself here – I was incredibly naive about the college applications process and was crushed when I didn’t get into my dream school, even though I got into equally good ones and life would have been fine even if I hadn’t gotten into top schools. My parents did their best to be very honest about the college admissions process, I just didn’t really believe them. And as recent threads have indicated, excellent grades and test scores are even less of a guarantee of admission to top colleges than they were 20-30 years ago.
           I’m certainly going to encourage my daughter to apply to top schools if she is a similarly good student in high school. It’s not about holding her back and encouraging her to go to a safety school. I just think not touring campuses might be part of managing expectations? I know before touring, I was like “well, I will apply to X, Y and Z because they are excellent schools in the subjects I’m interested in” – it was very logical and practical – and after touring I was all swoony about one particular place, mostly because the campus was pretty and the kids who went their seemed cool, which I’m not sure are the best metrics to evaluate the school. Peoples personalities vary of course, but my daughter does take after me in many ways so I can see her doing something similar and being more logical before visiting and more emotional after visiting. I think not visiting would actually help take the emotion out of it. At least it would have for me.

        2. Absolutely. A kid that age is ready to learn that they may not get everything they want, but it’s still worth knowing what’s out there. Let’s not shelter our kids to this degree. It doesn’t do anyone any good.

    13. Hi- I work in college admissions. Especially with a daughter that young, college visits dont have to be an extra THING- just go where you’d normally go on vacation or trips, and while you’re there, visit one or two of the area colleges. It will help her get an idea of the types of places she’d like to attend. When she gets to be 16 or 17, she’ll have a realistic idea of where she can see herself AND where she’ll likely be admitted. Your attitude matters here- dont talk a lot about how great the ivy league schools are if she’s not realistically an ivy league student. Rather than focusing on the “best” colleges, talk about the BEST FIT FOR HER and how she’ll find that with regards to lifestyle, academics, location, price, etc.
        By the time you get to admitted students’ days (every college and university has them), those visits should be fore helping her decide between the best fit schools. I hope that when you get that far, you’ve identified several great options for her.

        1. It is really true that every college and university has admitted students’ days now? I get that I started college a long time ago, but none of the schools I was admitted to had them. How would that even work at a school that has 5k freshman every year, when they must admit substantially more potential students?

           1. My daughter will be starting college in the fall and she was invited to all the admitted students days for colleges that accepted her. It was before the May 1 decision day so she could have gone to multiple admitted students days before she made up her mind. In her case, she didn’t, because she already knew which school she wanted to go to and accepted the minute they admitted her.

              I agree with the person you’re responding to, and I mentioned this up thread – you don’t have to take big college tour-focused trips. Wherever you go on vacation, visit a nearby campus. Just make it a habit. It not only gives your kid a lot of information about where he/she would like to apply, it also drives home that yes, of course you’re going to college.

           2. Are you really going to try and explain my current job to me, based on your experience “a long time ago?”

              JFC. A huge problem with the hysteria around college admissions process is that parents consider themselves valid authorities on it, based on anecdotal evidence from their communities and having completed the process themselves a generation ago. Please do not discount the graduate degrees and continued professional education and experience of the admissions team at each institution and your child’s school counselors at their school. If you dont feel you’re receiving enough attention from your child’s school counselor (at large public schools, they are frequently overworked and underfunded) there is a huge community of independent educational consultants available as well- look for “Find an IECA Educational Consultant” on the internet and you’ll find plenty.

              Yes, almost all school have admitted students days, even the biggest schools.

              1. This is such a rude response. Someone asked a question because that surprised her. Nothing she said indicated that she didn’t trust the statement. Instead of being rude, you could have explained it to her nicely like the responder below.

              2. Counterpoint: this response is totally warranted. One, it’s a LMGTFY — very easy to ascertain if a variety of college have admitted students days. Two, if it was really a question rather than an argument, it would have said something like, “I’m surprised to read that all colleges have admitted students days! How does that work with colleges that admit thousands of students?” and then OP could have explained.

                 The poster’s cited her own, super-outdated experience as some kind of evidence disputing OP’s claim, and OP seemingly runs into this “back in my day” stuff all the time and understandably gets frustrated. Smartphones also didn’t exist back in your day, Claudia, but things done changed! Listen and learn.

           3. I work at a public university with 40,000+ undergrads and yes the are admitted student days (plural). It’s not like it was at my Ivy where everyone came together on one weekend, we met many of our future classmates and the school basically put on a ridiculously lavish party to convince us all to attend. But yes, there are days specifically for admitted students to visit campus, tour, meet their prospective advisors and professors, etc.

    14. I read somewhere that students’ post-visit opinions of colleges are highly correlated with the niceness of the weather on the days they visited.

        1. Truth. I saw the University of Richmond campus on a nor’easter weekend in New England. Boarded the flight at Logan (barely) in high winds and snow and touched down to chirping birds and blooming flowers. I mean, UR’s campus is insanely beautiful even on a bad day, but … shocker… I’m a Spider.

        2. 100%! I visited Northwestern in February, and Duke in October (for Midnight Madness). Guess where I ended up…

           1. +1… it took me experiencing Chicago in February *in person* to realize that Northwestern was not the school for me. I’m dense that way.

           2. I tried to warn a Houston friend that her daughter would probably not like a Wisconsin college. I asked if they had visited in the winter. No, they hadn’t. I suggested the daughter open the freezer and put her face and hands in it for 15 minutes.

              After her first year up north, daughter said she did not want to return to the college.

        3. My husband went to grad school at Stanford and apparently his department would wait until a brutally cold day in the Northeast (where most of their peer institutions and many of their admitted students are) and release the decisions on that day.

        4. Ha, no surprise! Would anyone really go to U of M or U Chicago having experienced what it’s actually like to walk across campus in late November? ;)

           1. I went to U of M for a job interview in February, and could not nope myself out of Ann Arbor fast enough.

              1. I went to Ann Arbor for work in early fall and it was 40 degrees. I had to go to the M Den and by myself a fleece jacket. I live less than 200 miles away and it was 75 degrees at home. To this day, I dislike AA (sorry UM people!)

    15. We toured colleges before the application period, and it wasn’t so much a “let’s see if we like it before we bother applying,” because there were some schools I hadn’t toured yet and still wanted to apply to. It was mostly a matter of logistics, that summer before senior year starts is usually a good time to travel to these colleges to tour them, and then you can tour the more local places in the fall and maybe winter if you still need to.
        Also, if the student is eyeing a good school, touring it in junior year may motivate them to work harder in school and study hard for the SATs. Touring the school now won’t have an impact on grades but may inspire a second go at the SATs. True, a kid might fall in love with a place and not get in, but that’s better than working their butt off to get in, then viewing the campus in February and thinking “oh, I’m actually not digging this place after all” (not that I’m assuming it happens a lot, just that it is a possibility). There were definitely schools I was mildly interested in, although they weren’t top choices, and then I toured them and decided they weren’t for me.

    16. Yes we did. There wouldn’t have been time between admissions and decisions to visit, I wanted to see the school to know whether to apply but also to learn more about the types of schools I wanted, and at some schools visiting shows interest and helps in admissions (although I think that isn’t a big deal).

    17. Coming from a working class family who couldn’t afford trips that didn’t involve a wedding or funeral, I did not do any college visits prior to applying. I was admitted to my very competitive top choice, but still could not afford to visit the campus just for the sake of visiting until it was time to register for classes. Once I did finally make it to campus for intro day, I hated it. Hated it with a fiery passion so hot I walked away from that school forever, took a gap year, and went to my local junior college and then smaller local state U. I am happy with where my path brought me now, although that was a life altering experience.

        So my reccomendation is that if you can afford the travel & time to visit a campus, do it.

        1. What did you hate so much about it?

           1. The crowds, the distance from my home and everyone I knew (many friends applied, none were accepted there), the complete shell shock of being dropped off in an unfamiliar place with a very different culture from what I knew where I felt completely lost, both figuratively and literally. Had I been able to visit ahead of time I think I would have had the chance to either mentally prepare for those changes or decide they were deal-breakers before becoming so committed.

21. Hi all, just wanted to let you know that all is well here so far. Wednesday was horrible. Uptown looked like a war zone of debris, flooded streets and destroyed cars. Several friends had cars or homes flooded and many of the major business streets (downtown, Oak, Magazine) were flooded. Some of my staff made it to work before the worst of it, and they warned me not to try and come in, so I never left the house. The university is currently closed through the weekend. Unfortunately, that storm had nothing to do with Tropical Storm Barry. I’m ready for it, although I hate the days on end without power. Not sure about SC – she’s in Jefferson Parish and has a child. Folks with young kids are mainly leaving so they don’t have their kids in sweltering heat for days. I am caring for an extra cat since his family are away in France on vacation, but I can get to him on foot, if necessary. I managed to get in a workout with a friend early this morning, so my worst problem at this point is arms that feel like rubber. Wish us luck!

    1. Thinking of all of you. Stay safe.

    2. Stay safe, NOLA!

       All is well here in JP. We didn’t have any damage or flooding in our area/at our house Wednesday. Our office’s power went out Wednesday around noon, and we’re closing at noon today (but I have a 2:00 conference call I couldn’t get out of). Our family had already planned to be on vacation on the Gulf Coast this weekend and next week, so we plan to leave for the beach this afternoon (ahead of the storm) and will just cross our fingers that the house will be OK. We have a cat-sitter who will stop by the house as soon as it’s safe.

       1. Good to know! One of my staff was headed for St. Pete and I offered to be a back-up for them with their animal boarding. Apparently, I’m the designated animal caregiver. Have a great vacation!

    3. Thanks for the update! Thinking of you!!

       1. Thanks! I’m just here, watching the news and taking care of kitties. Need to go see the big boy before it gets bad.

22. Are you me?

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