Thursday’s Workwear Report: Everyday Chambray Shirt

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I own an earlier version of this shirt, and it’s gotten a surprising amount of wear over the last few months. A chambray shirt can be worn tucked into a pencil skirt, or thrown over a sports bra and leggings when a videoconference catches you by surprise. I like the fit of this one, in particular. It’s not too form-fitting, but also not totally shapeless.

The shirt is $78 and available in 00–20 (lucky sizes only) at Nordstrom. J.Crew has more in stock — in classic, petite, and tall size ranges. Everyday Chambray Shirt

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Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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351 Comments

  1. Has anyone tried any dog specific joint supplements for their dogs? I think my big boy could use some but wanted to hear testimonials first before going to the vet. Chewy has a large selection! Another question, has anyone’s dog been diagnosed with arthritis? I know it’s possible. I truly can’t tell if my dog is just lazy (he’s adopted and I’m much more active than his foster) or if it’s a bigger issue. He licks his paws a lot and according to AKC that could be a sign of arthritis (among other things). He’s only a year and a half but tuckers out so quickly on walks. The vet did not say he’s overweight.

    1. My elderly (14) golden mix has arthritis, and we give her a joint supplement – of course I have no idea what brand, sorry. Its hard to know for sure if it helps, among all the other things she gets (anti-inflammatory prescriptions, etc) but the vet said it was a good idea to try.

      For your dog getting tired on short walks, and this might seem obvious, but maybe it’s the heat? Our very furry girl, even when she was young, had a hard time on walks in the summer heat and humidity. At any rate, sounds like a good idea to check with your vet about the paw licking, potential arthritis and tiredness, since he’s still so young! Hopefully whatever it is, they can make a treatment plan that he’ll respond well to.

      1. I do bring water! I’m fully accepting of the heat but I’d think maybe 20 minutes or so before he needed a break. This happens on our walks even at 6 AM when it’s not super hot yet. His stops were so frequent this morning was which is what brought me to post. Since our walk was first thing in the AM, it got me thinking he could be stiff from just waking up…

        1. That is another good point about morning walks – you beat the heat a bit, but I also notice that our dog is slower on her morning walks than later in the day, and possibly because she’s still working out stiffness from sleep.

        2. Is your pup getting enough sleep? Ours is a year and our vet said she needs to sleep a LOT. I take her out to do her business in the morning, but then she goes back to sleep for another 3 hours. 6AM exercise might feel like working out at 3AM to us. Just a thought but I second trying later in the day

          1. My 6-year-old dog seems to need about 16 hours of sleep a day. She used to sleep 8 hours while my daughter was at school (confirmed by my observations while WFH on occasion) and 8 hours at night. Now that everyone is home and keeping her awake most of the day, she goes to bed at 6 p.m.

        3. Are you giving him enough opportunity to stop and sniff around? Sometimes dogs just want to take time and sniff things instead of walking, especially first thing in the morning when they’ve been indoors all night.

    2. What does the vet say about arthritis and the paw-licking? Yeast infections between the toes are pretty common and can cause paw-licking.

      For a big dog, the summer heat could be an issue. My 72-lb Golden mix is very active and athletic, but the heat really wears her out during the summer. We have to limit the length of her walks if it’s much over 75 degrees. The body mass to surface area ratio makes it harder for big dogs to cool off, and it’s worse if they have a lot of fur.

    3. I have been giving our dogs chews by Ark Naturals (prescribed dosage) for years. They love the flavor and it does seem to keep them active. For old dogs who are missing teeth, I chop them up into little pieces so they don’t have to chew as much. You can get them on the river site or chewy.

    4. That’s young for joint pain. I’d talk to your vet to see what’s really going on before giving him anything. Also know that activity aptitude varies by breed and size. For example, a greyhound is generally not going to want to walk with you as much as a lab—they’re sprinters but basically going to be couch potatoes otherwise. It’s just how they’re built. Are your expectations fair? Your perception of “lazy” may truly be all the animal has in him (and possibly should). Many breeds aren’t suited for jogs or long hikes the way others are.

      1. LMAO- tell my greyhounds that! They’re conditioned for long walks and will make it known if that doesn’t happen. It takes time to get there, but greyhounds most certainly can be worked up to as long of distances as any other dog (added bonus – you can hose them down to keep cool and they don’t get waterlogged!). My first hound routinely coursed 1000 yard lure courses 6X over the course of a weekend until he was about 10 years old and we did miles upon miles of hiking at the walk and trot to keep fit in between. While that’s not typical, the 4-5 miles per day my current pack walks/jogs now is certainly do-able by a greyhound, or any healthy dog.

        I do use visual cues like a separate collar/leash for “workouts” vs a short “go sniff around” walk. Walking/jogging vs sniffing is a behavior that can be trained.

        A tired dog is a sleeping dog is a well behaved dog!

      2. I agree. Before you start medicating your dog for something they sound way too young to have, get them checked out by a vet first.

    5. That sounds young for joint issues, but to answer the question asked, we use Cosequin for our older dogs. Paw licking can also be anxiety or allergies or even irritation from hot pavement. He may need better conditioning and build up his stamina, especially for walks in the heat. What kind of dog is he?

    6. Yes! Our late dog had arthritis and the Hills Science Diet joint food made such a huge difference. When we ran out and switched to regular food for a bit she became lame again right away. We also found the doggy anti-inflammatory meds (rimadyl) and tramadol as needed very helpful. We definitely gained several years of life with this treatment.

    7. My corgi has had multiple joint surgeries at the regional vet hospital. They recommended Dasiquin with MSM and a high daily dose of vitamin E (fish or flax oil, the human pills are fine).

      Now he has arthritis in middle age, confirmed by x-ray. I thought something was wrong because he seemed unusually cranky, but he doesn’t show it in the way he moves.

      1. We use Dasiquin on our 12 year old lab.
        1.5 seems awfully young for joint issues — is it hot where you are? Our dog is so, so sluggish when the temperature is over 75 and will pull us to the first shady spot he sees. But give him 30 degree weather and we can’t get him inside.

      2. We also do Dasiquin with MSM, and it seems to help. Got the recommendation from a friend with a vet in the family.

    8. My dog takes a daily supplement for his joints. He’s a big dog and is almost 14. The supplement is from the vet but she gave me a list of ones I could be elsewhere, like Costco. You might want to call your vet to get a list, since your vet knows your dog and will be able to help if any issues arise.
      My dog also licks his paws. The supplement helped his aches and limping but did nothing for the licking. The licking according to my vet is allergy related and now that it is a habit — it is a self comforting thing. Sadly, we have not found anything to stop the paw licking.

    9. Step 1, talk to your vet.

      Like people, most dogs have some joint damage somewhere. Some have symptoms, some don’t, depending on a variety of factors. Keeping him at a good weight is a huge first step in the right direction. My eldest dog has a sketchy hip that would almost certainly cause severe disability if she were overweight and not kept in good physical condition throughout her life.

      If the dog isn’t conditioned for the activity you’re wanting to do, he will tire out quickly. Like us, you need to work him up to it. Some dogs will, quite literally, kill themselves trying to please their humans when it comes to physical exercise, so you do need to be careful and gradual when working him up to your desired level of activity.

    10. I’ve had all of my dogs on a joint supplement and I think they really work. My vet recommended them for my older dogs years ago so I put them all on it, and the younger ones (now a few years older) seem to be doing better than the older ones at the same age. I buy Cosequin Maximum Strength Plus MSM pills – you can get them at Sam’s and Costco. In fact, if you have a Costco card right now you can get 2 bottles of 180 tables for $59.99 (that’s $20 off). I always stock up when they have this special. It’ll take a little time to see the difference, but I’m convinced they work.

    11. Paw licking is also a symptom of allergies. Our black lab has allergies and gets a children’s allergy pill about every day during the spring/summer/fall. Otherwise she literally sneezes, licks her paws raw, and gets itchy bumps on her skin. The vet suggested that OTC children’s medication was waaaay cheaper, so gave us his blessing to just do that.

    12. Totally possible a young dog could have arthritis. We have a 4-year-old pitbull with weak hips/hind legs, which we think are a result of poor breeding or care before we adopted him. He’s been to multiple vets and had multiple x-rays, and the diagnosis is arthritis/osteoarthritis. We have been giving him Dasuquin and Duralactin for three years (both available on Chewy and 1-800-PetMeds), and in the last few months we’ve started giving him omega-3 chews, which he loves b/c they are like treats. We also started giving him pet CBD oil a few weeks ago but haven’t noticed a difference.

      Our dog is also VERY sensitive to the heat compared to other dogs (not sure if it’s a pitbull thing??) and we don’t walk him if it’s super humid or above 80 degrees. He starts off strong and then gets super pokey and has to take several breaks until we make it back home.

      And sort-of-related word of caution — if you take your dog to a vet who tells you he/she has torn ACLs and needs surgery, get a second opinion! This happened to us.

  2. I’m so frustrated about the yesterday’s birth control ruling. There are so many reasons that women take birth control aside from contraceptive reasons. Ovarian cancer runs in my family and being on birth control for 5 years in your 20s helps limit your risk. Ovarian cancer is often hard to catch until it’s too late so I’m trying very very hard to limit my risks. There are so many other medical reasons to take BC.

    Of course, if I’m taking birth control for contraceptive reasons, that’s my decision not my employers and not the governments and they should butt out.

    1. And adding here that it drives me nuts that our healthcare is tied to our employer!!!

      1. this is the only way (that I personally see) that health insurance is ever going to have a noticeable change in this country. Everyone needs to not have it available thru their employer. I recently learned that employers can also control which doctors are in network for their company’s health plan. So, say you have two companies, A and B, that are similar in size and industry and in the same geographic area, and they both use Blue Cross for their health plans. Since they’re similar companies, they have basically the same coverage and costs under the plan. However, if the CEO of company A’s best friend is a heart surgeon, but is usually out of network for Blue Cross in this area, Company A can negotiation that this particular doctor is now “in network”. but they’re only in network for Company A.

      2. But if it healthcare weren’t tied to employment, it might end up being wasted on people who aren’t productive employees!

          1. And people with disabling conditions often still benefit from healthcare. But they haven’t always earned it.

          2. What conversation are we even having here? IDK whether you support health care for everyone or not, but I do.

          3. I read Anon @9:54’s comment as sarcastic – I’m really hoping that’s how it was meant!

          4. I support healthcare for everyone; I just think it’s no accident that our system works the way it does in a country that pioneered eugenics theory. I think it will also be hard to change because people in general are so hung up on whether patients are deserving. My perspective is formed partly by the medical care I’ve received when employed vs. the care I’ve received when unable to work. Patient forms ask for detailed information about employment every visit, and the doctors I’ve seen are openly suspicious of patients who appear to be “getting out of work” because of their symptoms. The system is working the way it was designed to.

      3. It’s a WW2-era innovation — it got around some wage-price controls of the era. So a new thing. I don’t think that the individual market worked poorly before, but you basically just died b/c it was so primitive. Now, I don’t know that I’d do so well in the market so some sort of bulk-buying program would probably be in order. Or something like BC/BS plans or Kaiser.

    2. The misogyny runs deep in this country. It saddens me that the Women’s March didn’t seem to have a lasting impact and people seem to have less appetite for more protest and more appetite to accept the status quo for women, maybe with some tinkering around the margins. I hope I’m wrong, but this ruling (among other things) has me depressed about the state of sexism in this country.

      1. It’s complicated and obviously depends on the country, but generally you either need $$$$ or you need to be offered a job by an employer in the country you want to live in, and they have to sponsor your visa which takes their time and money. Not very likely if you don’t have a very in-demand skillset that can’t be found from their pool of applicants that already reside in that country.

    3. Echoing Anon at 9:43, it honestly makes me want to move out of the country. I’ve thought to myself that if Trump wins again in the fall then it’ll really be the nail in the coffin for me, although realistically, I don’t know how possible it is to move abroad. I need to do some research.

      1. But you can’t go a lot of places now and even before Corona you would just get a no-work tourist visa. Absent a trust fund, how does this work exactly? IIRC even Prince Harry can’t legally work in the US (and based on what I know Re immigration law, I’m not even sure how he is here).

          1. Does he just get to come here though? Maybe normally, but IIRC she was in the process of giving up citizenship (and maybe it would be a nuisance item for Archie b/c of all of the tax filings and foreign bank account disclosure rules we have now). I honestly don’t know, but it makes me curious. I do think he can’t legally work here.

          2. Sure, he might not be able to work here on whatever visa he has, but I don’t think Meghan Markle renouncing her American citizenship was ever more than a rumor… or at least she didn’t go through with it. It’s perfectly normal when a non-citizen marries a citizen that the non-citizen is issued a visa to live in the US after jumping through a few hoops. And when you have a lot of money, you can find a way.

          3. Even when marrying a US citizen (and, as in this case, being able to convince immigration that this is a ‘real’ marriage, not just for green card purposes), the paperwork trail to a spousal green card takes a while, as in months to a year.

          4. Maybe they had it in works for a long time before they moved to the US? I don’t think there’s any sort of conspiracy or strangeness here.

      2. Same. I’m lucky and privileged in that I do have good employer based coverage and could afford to buy my own birth control/access any and all abortions needed, but I am just so tired of knowing I live in a country that doesn’t view me as a full person with a full set of human rights. The misogyny that underlies objection to the birth control benefit is just disgusting and demoralizing.

      3. Canada has a points-based system, and if you speak English, have a graduate degree and 5+ years experience in your field, you most likely have enough points. I have family-related reasons to stay here, but I can’t say I haven’t thought about it. Canada is not problem free, of course, but seems like a much better place to live than the US.

        1. Wow — does Canada not let in poor people and the unskilled? Like great if all of your migrants have MBAs and $$$, but that is not how it is for the rest of the world.

          1. A lot of countries have some immigration framework tied to employment or employability. On the other precarious extreme, a lot of countries also take in refugees. Many countries don’t have immigration pathways for the everyday Joe.

          2. Yeah I cant’ imagine the flak the US would get if we put this type of system in place. That said, I would totally support it.

          3. There are separate categories for refugees, family of people currently living here, people who are working in high demand areas (eg caregivers in nursing homes), and international students who are also allowed to work while they are here. Many people come in under one category and then apply to stay. Like my BFF’s husband who was a cook trained in India – he got a job at an Indian restaurant in rural area because they could show they had advertised and couldn’t find anyone local, then he applied for permanent residency (already having a job here gives you more points), then he did his MBA and now has a corporate job in a big city. He sponsored his mom, dad, sister and brother under family status.

        2. You need all of those things AND either an offer of employment from a Canadian employer or a spouse who either has residence or an offer to work there. It’s not nearly that easy.

          1. This has not been my experience with family members who have immigrated to Canada from India. They all speak English, have grad degrees and 5+ years of experience. None of them had job offers. They came to Canada and then found jobs. The process was a thousand times easier than the US. Actually, none of them even wanted to come to the US. It’s just not that appealing of a country to people with options anymore.

          2. AND you need to not have major medical conditions (or you have to get your own health insurance there too).

          3. Sorry, I should have amended that to “spouse or family member”. Were your family members possibly sponsored by other family members who already lived there? That would explain why. The first person in a family to get into another country generally has the hardest path in. Otherwise I think every other advance degreed 32 year old in the US would sprint for the border.

            Here’s a calculator that can tell you if you potentially qualify: https://www.abhinav.com/check-your-eligibility.aspx

        3. +1 Canada is pretty easy to get into for educated youngish professionals. We really just seek excellent immigrants and if you’re excellent we want you!

          1. If that’s their system, fine; I just hate how Canada has that system and then looks down on America for pushing back on unskilled immigration.

          2. Responding to anon at 11:01… for what it’s worth, I think Canada has a generous refugee program too and we certainly offer residence, if not citizenship, to people from many backgrounds. For example I’m pretty proud of Canada’s response to the Syrian refugee crisis.

            Having said that, for immigrants coming through other nom-refugee channels, why is it wrong that the country would try to match the skills of our newcomers with needs in our economy? I think our system gives immigrants a better chance for success, and isn’t that a good thing? It’s not like we’re only admitting doctors or anything. There is still a wide range of experience and educational that fits what we’re looking for.

            I still don’t think we have it right though. Too often immigrants are told that we need their skills, but then their qualifications are not recognized here. We definitely need to do better on the last part, in integrating newcomers into our workforce.

        4. The Canadian system of allowing in only highly-skilled immigrants seems very sensible to me. One can still make a living wage in their lower skilled jobs.

          I have considered moving to Canada because I have close family members who are Canadian.

      4. I qualify for citizenship in another country, and I have submitted my application. I want to be ahead of the game wit respect to moving out of the US, should Trump win a second term.

    4. OTOH, is there any real reason why BCPs are even Rx medicines? Like why can’t they be OTC meds (or behind the counter like Sudafed)? I take a lot of allergy meds and half of them were Rx only at some point that now they trust people to take. And the price, while not free, is affordable. Why can’t BCPs be like this???

      1. Because we do not trust women to make their own decisions about their own bodies and are terrified of women’s sexual agency.
        It is OTC (or at least does not require a prescription) in some countries. When I was 20 and spent a summer traveling in Europe, I went into a French pharmacy and asked for “la pilule.” Fewer than 3 minutes and 10 euros later, I had it.

    5. The exact issue is that nuns do not want to pay for insurance that covers IUDs and contraception qua contraception.

      The larger issue is that birth control is like $10/month. This isn’t asking people to pay for cancer treatment out of pocket; in a functional insurance market, you could use an HSA or FSA for these small purchases and no one would have to make a literal federal case out of it.

      1. 1. Many (most?) employers don’t offer HSAs or FSAs
        2. Birth control costs vary greatly depending on the type. They’re only so cheap for so many now because of provisions in the ACA.
        3. Employers shouldn’t have any say in birth control, full stop. Which I think is much better addressed by taking employers out of the health insurance equation, but here we are.

        1. … and now I’m imagining a world in which your employer is responsible for your car insurance. Would they mandate you only buy certain types or makes of cars? Homeowner’s or renter’s… could they require that you live in a certain neighborhood, or a certain type of home? It’s so ridiculous.

      2. Birth control is not $10 a month out of pocket. If it’s about nuns, why don’t they stop covering pregnancy and viagra?

      3. Employers shouldn’t be denying you coverage based on their judgement of your morals. What if they refused to pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers – after all, it’s their own fault, right? If you’re really meant to live surely God could perform a miracle, why cover any medical care at all?

        1. Yeah, also read up on the early days of HIV for horrendous accounts of people being denied health care out of judgment. They were literally just left to die.

          1. If “nuns do not want to pay for insurance that covers IUDs and contraception qua contraception”, what is the reason that do they not want to pay? Because they think birth control is not compatible with their morals, right?

        2. There are plans with these exclusions! They are often evangelical “risk sharing” pools. I don’t know their exact legal status, but I know people who use them.

          1. They may not be real insurance or legally tied to employment, but people who work for churches and other religious groups without receiving insurance are definitely pressured to join them as an alternative to insurance.

      4. I have endocrine conditions and would actually prefer for birth control to be separate from medicine. It’s something people use at a net cost to their baseline health because they have more important goals than maximizing their health. I think birth control should be publicly funded and free completely outside of the healthcare system.

        Right now I think it’s shady when doctors recommend birth control as safe “compared to pregnancy” and not as compared to “not being on the pill.” And the use of BC off label for serious medical conditions has held back research into better and safer treatments for women’s health issues. I would rather my doctor warn me about the risks of the birth control that I’m getting elsewhere so that I can rely on my doctor as an advocate for my health (even if I make other choices).

        1. The pill isn’t the only form of prescription birth control! What about copper IUDs? And really, most medical treatments and medications have side effects of some sort.

      5. If only it were that simple. Many other birth control methods that people *need* are not $10/month. Additionally, men do not have this expense, so writing it off as easy to cover under an HSA/FSA is still basically charging women for having female reproductive systems.

        1. It is that simple, because if you are getting the Pill for not-contraception (endometriosis, etc.), then it’s covered under insurance. The Little Sisters did not argue that they should not be covering it for non-contraceptive uses.

          1. But your insurer can reject the medical reasoning for the script if they don’t buy it. This happened to me as a minor when I was covered by insurance through a Catholic hospital system.

      6. Yeah, I mean I personally don’t agree with an employer deciding not to cover birth control, but I also understand it. This country is pretty aggressively centered around the idea of “religious freedom”. I 100% think there should be some alternative plan that covers things like birth control for those whose employers won’t cover it, but I also do understand the specific, narrow, exception.

        1. We do. That’s why the federal government gives out hundreds of millions of dollars to community health clinics, in part to cover contraception.

        2. I do not understand or agree with it. I’m an atheist and an American citizen. Your belief, or a majority’s belief, in a higher power means nothing to me and should have zero impact on my ability to receive health care. If you don’t want to use birth control, don’t. If you want to participate in the economy, then you cannot bring your own crappy, prejudiced beliefs into the benefits you offer to employees.

        3. Ok but my denomination is ok with birth control and I’ve yet to meet a priest here who isn’t ok with premarital sex. Plenty of people are not religious. The right to religious freedom should not impede on my or others healthcare point blank but ESPECIALLY since I’m not the same religion.

      7. Are the nuns also saying they shouldn’t pay taxes for systems that support the death penalty or police that murder Black Americans? If you’re going to take a stand that you shouldn’t have to pay for things you don’t agree with, you better take it all the way, otherwise you’re using religious freedom as an excuse to control women.

        1. Oh also forgot to add, those nuns better also be asking if they can deny coverage for any fertility treatment since that also goes against the church’s beliefs.

      8. “Birth control is like $10 a month.” No, it’s not. This is incredibly dismissive and privileged. The cost varies greatly. I had to pay out of pocket for birth control only a few years ago and it was more like $30-$40 a month. Then, only several months ago, my insurance company decided to stop working with my local pharmacy in order to force people to use CVS and birth control through the local pharmacy, without insurance, was $35 a month. I was fortunate enough in both cases to be able to pay for it, but to many, that is the cost of a household bill.

        1. Yeah pre-ACA, I had insurance where birth control was like a $50 copay but the actual cost would have been $150 w/o insurance.

        2. Also BCPs are not ideal for everyone (specifically overweight and smokers) and IUDs can cost several thousand. The BCP I like that gave me the least symptoms was $92 a month, instead I took the one I could stand for $7 a month.

      9. “The exact issue is that nuns do not want to pay for insurance that covers IUDs and contraception qua contraception.”

        Boohoo. They (Little Sisters of the Poor) were never even asked to– they got butthurt about *signing a form* that would allow the federal government to step in and cover their obligation. The issue is a lot broader than just hurting nuns’ feelings. We also have to worry about hurting Hobby Lobby’s fee fees and the fee fees of a variety of other “religious” corporations.

        It’s cheap…. when there’s insurance coverage. Even if it was that cheap, discrimination isn’t right just because you don’t think the financial impact is great enough.

    6. If healthcare isn’t tied to the employer doesn’t that mean it is tied to the government? What makes us think Medicare-for-all wouldn’t have these very same restrictions, or worse. I am fully supportive of the need for universal healthcare in the US but let’s be clear that it will also be problematic.

      1. Oh I agree – I don’t want Pence anywhere near my healthcare.

        My issue with employer based healthcare is bigger picture than this issue. The fact that a) if you don’t have a job, if you’re self employed, etc healthcare is exorbitant and b) the quality, price, flexibility of your healthcare is dependent on your employer is crazy. The fact that I just switched jobs and need all new doctors bc my old ones aren’t covered in my new plan is insane. The fact that many jobs have waiting periods before new hires can get coverage and thus need COBRA is inane and expensive.

      2. The government isn’t a privately owned company or religious institution. On what grounds would the have the ability to restrict?

        1. on the grounds that the regs would be set by a an agency run by a political appointee, or an EO would not allow it or a number of other political things happened, unless it was mandated by congress to cover it.

        2. If there can be the global gag rule that prevents US govt money from going to orgs abroad that even mention abortion in their programming, you better believe the US govt can find a way to restrict access domestically.

  3. How to become a slow eater? I have been told by various people that I eat way too fast and that this is unhealthy and contributes to weight gain. I timed myself recently, and an effort to eat a large salad slowly only took 20minutes. I’d like to practice eating more slowly such that it would take me at least 30 minutes to finish a similar salad. So far I found using my non-habitual hand to hold the utensil effective. Do people have other tips? How about setting a minimum chewing frequently of about 20 chews before swallowing? Have people tried this and does it work?

    1. I’m almost always doing something while I eat – chatting with my roommate, watching TV, scrolling on my phone. I’m very easily distracted so doing something besides just eating makes me take forever to eat

      1. But mindfulness is also a weight loss technique, so I’m not sure multitasking is the answer.

    2. I have found that practicing mindfulness is the easiest way to slow down. Instead of racing to achieve the goal of finishing the meal, take time to deliberately notice the flavors and textures. Shifting my focus in this way naturally causes me to take smaller bites and eat more slowly. Basically, just try to enjoy your food more.

    3. I’m a slow eater. I don’t have any special rules but I do make sure I taste every bite, like really make sure to assess what I’m experiencing, is it garlicky? is it smooth and creamy? Etc.

      1. Agreed. I eat fast when it is hot food because I like my food to be *actually hot* and not just warm, but as long as I take a break after I finish eating to let satiety set in it is fine.

    4. Put the fork down between each bite. Don’t pick it up again until you’ve swallowed.

    5. I have heard that eating quickly means you don’t feel satiated immediately, but eating quickly itself doesn’t contribute to weight gain. Maybe eat at a normal pace for you, but set a short waiting period for when you allow yourself to eat more? Eating with my non-dominant hand or counting chews would be very annoying for me.

      1. +1 on creating a waiting period before you can have more, so your body has time to register fullness. Just tell yourself I’m only eating this plateful until 8:00, if I’m still hungry then I can have more. You might find that you naturally linger more over the portion you do have.

    6. I don’t think you need to eat more slowly than 20 minutes per salad. But yes, I have had a nutritionist affiliated with my gym include in “good eating habits” chewing food a minimum number of times. I don’t remember the number (maybe 14?), but 20 seems plenty.

    7. Per the information you give you are a MUCH slower eater than me. Are you sure you don’t just need to stop listening to these ‘various people’?

    8. You don’t need to listen to people who are criticizing your eating habits. Tell them to MYOB.

    9. I started working on that issue this year, and I have had some success. I’ve lost 10 pounds, but I think that’s due to increasing my exercise. I generally eat alone, on the sofa, in front of the TV. I noticed that while I was chewing a bite I was mindlessly setting up the next bite on my fork, and would often even put more food in my mouth before I had finished with what was there already! I was practically swallowing food whole. I trained myself to put my fork down between bites, and worked on actually chewing food before swallowing it. Not it’s pretty much a habit. Not perfect, but way better than before, when I could inhale a taco bowl type dinner in 5 minutes.

    10. Slowing down does give your body time to send you saiety signals. I’m a fast eater so I’ve been working on chewing each bite 10 times and putting my fork down between each bite.

    11. Chewing each bite 20 times sounds horrible… And I agree that it sounds like you’re eating slowly enough. If you eat fast because you don’t feel full, try drinking a full glass of water 5-10 min before eating. Also, reading something dense (like the NYRB) on paper (v. online) helps me eat more slowly when alone.

    12. Maybe break up your meal into two portions, one to eat immediately (like a salad) and one to eat ten minutes after you finish that (like your protein).

    13. I’m not very adept with chopsticks but can manage to convey food to my mouth with them. It requires concentration and conscious thought to make it work for me. I can slow myself down on salads and other food with pieces if I eat with chopsticks.

    14. I agree that the “various people” need to mind their own business.

      That said, one thing that works for me is an ironclad rule that I can’t put the next bite of food on my fork until I’ve swallowed the bite that’s in my mouth. Similar to “put the fork down” but not as obvious. I used to have the next bite all loaded up and ready to shovel in, and this rule really helped.

    15. Ignore them. Otherwise, take sips of water in between every 2-3 bites, smaller portions in each bite, putting the fork down. I think I remember reading a set of etiquette rules that British royalty have to follow when dining in public and it emphasized some of these. The idea was to always be ready to respond to someone’s comment without having food in your mouth.

  4. Fantasy relocation thread:

    I’m certainly not moving anytime soon (thanks COVID), and probably not ever (too many family and friends in my city). But, because I need something to cure today’s wanderlust here’s a question.

    What city (and neighborhoods!) would you recommend for someone (mid 20s) leaving a big east coast city. The city ideally would be close to nature (open to any type – love mountains, beaches, deserts), with a vibrant social scene (bars, restaurants, quirky /fun local things, just plenty to do). COL, job market, and ease of access would be factors too

    1. If I could move anywhere it would be old Quebec City. It’s just so dang beautiful and right on the water, it’s perfect,plus it’s stone’s throw from mountains and cideries. The cost of living is quite reasonable IMO and you can buy lovely historic condos. I especially love all the art and festivals and the patio scene.

      1. I say this as someone who loves Quebec City and has gone there on an almost annual basis for the past decade…there’s a couple of downsides here: You need to speak French – it is not as bilingual as Montreal. The real estate market (which I have actually explored) has been pretty stagnant for the past decade, so don’t expect to make money on any housing purchase. Professional opportunities are pretty limited (and non-existent if you don’t speak French). Like I said, I love it but it’s way more of a “maybe retire there” place than somewhere I would go in my early career.

        1. I’m fluent in french and can transfer my job there very easily. The only logistical problem for me personally is my unilingual husband.

        2. Yeah, the job market in Quebec City is pretty limited if you don’t work for the Quebec government (which requires speaking French and Canadian citizenship). It is a lovely place to be though!

    2. Portland, OR. 1.5 hours to beach or mountains, tons of quirky stuff to do. COL is high and rising, but may still be less than large east coast market. Public transit is excellent. Rains a lot, but never gets too hot or cold.

      I grew up there and miss it terribly, but with a kids / house / career in another state now I don’t think I’m moving back any time soon.

      1. IMO Portland has gotten very expensive for what you get (it is still relatively affordable for a west coast city). Homeless people are everywhere (still not SF levels of bad). I think it is workable for my single and childless friends and much less doable for others.

        After seeing Lady Bird I am thinking that Sacramento may be where I go next.

          1. I don’t know anything about Sacramento but was thinking a smaller, less popular but still fun city!

          1. +1 stupidly stupidly hot. I really enjoy spending time out of doors and you really can’t in a place like Sac in the summer. Everyone is inside with A/C.

          2. Uh, I think you mis-read the question. It’s where would you like to relocate, not where would you like to *get murdered in a cheap motel by the side of the highway. But if you’re a fan of Sac town, you should look into Amarillo (TX).
            *Your experience of Sacramento may vary from poster’s

          3. HAHA I have heard that about Sacramento. Out of curiosity (not because I want to move there) where do all of the government employees live?

    3. One of my friends relocated from NYC to Cornelius, NC, and she loves it. The town is on a lake (Lake Norman) and there is a university (Davidson), which seems like a good combo from the nature / liveliness perspectives. Compared to NYC, the cost of living is way, way less.

      1. It is also about 30-45 minutes from Charlotte, so still close to a major airport, etc.

      2. As someone who lives in Charlotte, but grew up outside NYC, this has my vote. Plus, depending on your career area, several jobs here pay the same salaries as in NYC due to the all the banks here/finance work.

    4. Denver or Seattle. Pick a state that doesn’t have a garbage pandemic response too.

      1. I would rule these out because OP is concerned with COL. Both also have traffic problems.

        1. Nah, I wouldn’t rule them out entirely. She didn’t say COL is a major, pressing concern, just that it’s a “factor.” You can still find reasonable neighborhoods in Denver, less so in Seattle.

    5. Come to Chicago! I moved here a year ago from the coast and IT IS AMAZING. Tons of restaurants and social things to do, and also lots of cultural institutions when they reopen. Ridiculously low COL given the fact that you can live among Michelin-starred restaurants and world class museums. I think the low COL also brings lots of hipster/artist communities. Tons of diversity with quite a few large pockets of immigrant communities from all over (Mexican, Puerto Rican, Polish, Bulgarian, Greek…) Also, people are really nice and open to building friendships and meeting new people. Airport with direct flights to pretty much everywhere. No mountains, but there are really cool beaches and lakes (and I think forests maybe, but I haven’t explored these parks yet).

      1. And before anyone jumps on me about it not being objectively “low” COL, I wanted to clarify that I mean the COL balanced with being a giant, dense city with lots of social options. It is very low compared to Boston, NY, LA, SF. I realize it’s not low compared to other smaller cities.

      1. +1. I have actually looked into this. It’s not the most vibrant job market, but it’s a lovely and fun city surrounded by beautiful ocean and nature, and every time I go (yearly, pre-COVID) I dream of buying a house on the coast.

    6. In a world where I’m incredibly wealthy and don’t have to work, I think I would move somewhere like Lake Tahoe. Mountains, Lake, summer activities, winter activities. Only drawback is the kitschy tourism, but if I could get a big ole lot and house maybe on the northern end where it’s quieter, that would be the dream.
      It’s not a bad drive to San Francisco or to Reno.

      1. Tahoe would be a dream (I’ve never been) but you get mountain sports and water sports!!

      1. It’s gorgeous. Living by the coast would make up for the cold winters, I think.

    7. I don’t do well with very cold winters (Maine, Minnesota, etc.), so my list would be something like: San Diego CA, Raleigh NC, Denver CO, maybe Savannah GA, Lexington KY or Charleston SC.

  5. Is anyone else struggling with the “new normal” at work? I’m in hospital finance, so when the pandemic hit NYC in March, I was in emergency mode – figuring out how to get my team 100% remote in a week, redeploying staff to help on the front lines, working through changing HR policies to get an employee paid for time off when he had Covid and was too new to qualify for FMLA, changing up strategic projects to focus on more immediate needs. In the midst of all that, I had a family tragedy when my mother was diagnosed with late stage cancer and died very suddenly. It was all overwhelming, but also urgent and all-consuming.

    But now it’s a slog, and I have a terrible attitude. We’re still remote, and have no guidance on when or whether we will be asked to return to the office. The hospital is in a financial crisis and trying to avoid layoffs by eliminating vacancies, which screws my team over. I’ve had to spend 4 hours so far on mandatory anti-racism & allyship zoom meetings, which would be fine if there were any real change fomented, but I fear is just a box-checking exercise. I’m exhausted.

    I know I’m grieving, and I’m giving myself space for that. But I can’t find the energy to push things through like I usually do at work. Not looking for advice as much as commiseration.

    1. Same here. It’s a difficult change to deal with, and it’s still really new, in the big picture of working life. And of course, what a terrible loss you’ve suffered – so sorry about your mom.

    2. Here with you.

      Over the 4th weekend, I mentally forced myself to come to grips with anything I’m planning on or events I’m hoping for through March 21, basically one year – I should expect will be cancelled or much different. Part of my mental exhaustion and frustration stems from “maybe May! No, maybe July! Yes, let’s vacation in August!” Etc. But accepting “this is a year I’ll be mostly at home” has started to help me.

      1. I agree that this helps. It helps with the decision fatigue of considering what might be safe and how to take the right precautions. It’s easier to adjust to the idea of I’m staying home this year and making the best of it vs. constantly trying to weigh options and safe practices with ever shifting news etc. It also lets me unplug from the news a bit without worrying that I’m going to miss some crucial information, making it all seem more manageable/less urgent.

    3. I’m so sorry your mother passed away. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot the past few months, significantly more than most people in these times. I realize sometimes you just have to get stuff done at work, but you do need to take care of yourself. Is there any chance you can take a week off in the near future and just recharge? I would also recommend therapy if you haven’t yet sought it out.

    4. I’m so, so sorry for your loss.

      It sounds like you’ve been an absolute rockstar for your team – getting everyone setup for remote work, going to bat for your employee, and adjusting workload priorities on the fly. That’s huge, and they’ll remember how hard you worked for them during this time. I know I would.

    5. I second all of the above comments but want to put in a plug for an antidepressant. I was resistant at first because my depression was situational and not typical clinical (though I think in retrospect I always had some and the situation just amplified it). Within days of starting a low dose antidepressant I felt like myself again. You don’t have to be on it forever. People here pushed me to talk to my doc and I’m so glad I did. You don’t have to struggle.

    6. I am so sorry for you.

      Therapy and PTO. Take a long weekend to find a beach, lake, or pool to sit next to.

    7. I’m so sorry about your mom. From another hospital finance gal, it sounds like you’ve made a lot happen! Of course your energy is depleted. I hope you find some time to recharge. Big hugs.

  6. I moved to the DMV during covid, blessed to relocate for a job because my search had started last year. As an extrovert, it’s just been hard. I know “it’s just the times” but damn, I wish making friends could happen in some way right now. Dating too. To all you living alone and going through similar things, hugs to you! It may get old having so many people always saying things like this, but sometimes it’s just good to get it out there so you/I/anyone reading this knows we aren’t alone in our feelings. I love my pet and my journal but they can’t drink wine with me!

    1. Aw, I am single, living alone and feeling all those feelings. Virtual toast to you! One thing that has helped me is virtual happy hours and events, especially if there is an opportunity to connect afterwards in a virtual breakout room on Zoom. I’ve been trying to attend a couple a week related to my interests. Helps me feel like I’m less alone and reminds me there is a big world out there and lots of people are looking to connect even in strange and new ways.

    2. Hey, in the DMV too! Check out some of the same organizations you would for networking in person – I know the young professionals group I volunteer with moved all of our programming virtual, so there’s still the chance to meet new people!

    3. It’s so hard. I’m not an introvert, but I’ve never really thought of myself as an extrovert because I’m shy and uncomfortable around people I don’t now. But this has convinced me that I apparently I’m an extrovert. During normal times, I love living alone and can’t really imagine living with anybody besides a romantic partner at this point in my life. But I’ve never been so lonely before. The first few months were hard, but the last month has been the hardest because I realize that this is probably my life for the next year. I haven’t seen a friend in person since March, and that’s really hard. I’m actually reevaluating whether I want to live alone anymore, that’s how lonely I’ve been.

      1. Would a distanced walk with a local friend (with masks if that makes you feel more comfortable) be an option? Or meeting for a drink (doesn’t have to be alcoholic) in your yard (if you have one) or a local park? I live across from a field and I see lots of groups of people bring picnic blankets and set the picnic blankets up 6-10 feet away and enjoy a drink/snacks while chatting with friends in person. Its not 0 risk, but all the articles I’ve seen suggest either activity would be as low risk as grocery shopping.

        1. This is Anon at 10:23. I would totally do any of that. My problem is that my friends aren’t. They have either left the DMV area cause they lived in small apartments with no space and reasonably left for their parents place. Or they have a health condition, are seeing a high-risk family member, or have anxiety.

          1. Anon @ 10:23 this is OP let me know if you want me to make a burner email and we can chat about grabbing a glass of wine LOL (half joking but maybe…….?)

      2. Anon @ 10:23: I’ve considered a roommate too! Often it’s hard for me to vocalize the ways I’m feeling lonely…it’s like the moments I feel it, I REALLY feel it. I have friends here, one of the reasons I decided to move back, but seeing them so sporadically and in such a different way isn’t always enough. If we were commuting to work, there’d be happy hours, sports leagues on the weekends, going to baseball games…it’s like all situations where I thrive in are taken away. I feel like I sound whiny and I apologize if I do, but I’m textbook social butterfly who is also looking for romantic companionship right now. What a time to learn a lot about yourself.

      3. I would not want to have to meet men through Zoom. I would not want to have strange men nuzzeling around me when I have no knowledge of their s-xueal history. I guess with this pandemic, I will have to wait until it is over b/f I will be open to s-x. I know this means that my ability to procreate may well go away in the interim, but it is just to risky to let strange men start nuzzeling around me with the goal of having me have s-x with them. That is NOT going to happen with COVID all around us.

  7. For those of you working at reduced salaries but doing more work, are you hitting the wall now? There is no sign of an end to this at my firm and every morning the last week I wake up ready to quit. I know part of it is my motivation is basically gone- working all the time was fine before when I could use the money to travel and visit family and go to events. Now I’m just working all the time, making less money and sitting at home with my dog. I’m also tired of being told I’m lucky to have a job when no one in my department has actually been laid off and in fact, recruiters are still calling. It feels like they are preying on the fears from the recession to keep us from asking questions. I don’t know what I’m asking really, I guess am I wondering if I’m the only one hitting a breaking point.

    1. Not the same situation, but my small agency pretty much put the local response on our back. I worked plenty of 90 hour weeks, several 12-16 day spans without a day off, worked both days and overnights, sometimes switching a few times a week, etc. Only to find out the entire city government was getting pay cuts. It’s a really minimal pay cut at my level but honestly it’s a slap in the face to people who killed themselves (and will likely have to kill thenselves again) to help our city.

      Aaaaand matters were made worse when I found out my brother on unemployment makes more being unemployed than I do working.

      1. About unemployment, I think stability is most valuable and if you have that you’re coming out ahead. Plus the amount is high now but the federal bonus ends July 31st, and many jobs are not returning any time soon.

        1. This exactly. It’s not just the stability but the work experience. Having good, consistent experience on your resume is worth something, and it signals to employers that you are a good potential hire.

        2. Anon 10:18 here. I’d never leave my job to get unemployment (and luckily my brother was furloughed not laid off) but it’s crazy to me that my government job that requires a degree and specialized experience pays less that unemployment

          I’m very glad that COVID unemployment was a livrable wage. It’s just crazy that my field is so competitive and yet poorly paid

        3. I don’t think anyone was saying oh yes payouts, Id rather have unemployment. Really don’t know where either of you got that from at all.

          1. Actually, thanks to OP for explaining, I do see her side I’m sure deserves a higher salary. I was just thinking that if the unemployment rankled, I’d comfort myself with the perspective that I have stability. In general, I don’t think it’s unusual to hear a lot of anger at the unfairness of unemployment that seems directed at those who are unfortunately out of work. It’s great not to see that here.

    2. Yes, I have reached my breaking point and am actively seeking other opportunities. To be fair, I started job hunting in early 2020 but it’s only accelerated now. With the extra $600 per week, I would be making more on unemployment than I am now. And I’m an attorney! My woeful underpayment, combined with the fact that I am now doing twice the amount of work as normal because another associate got laid off, really gets to me. I asked for and was denied a raise at my annual review in December, and I am now billing more than twice what anyone else in my 14-person firm is billing. Unfortunately without an offer in hand I have no leverage.

      1. Well, you sound accomplished. Can you find a way to market yourself with your added workload in your cover letter/resume? Responsible for all xyz accounts, increased billing by 100% over the previous year … IDK but hope you get that offer and accept it.

    3. This has been happening at the small company I work at. Lots of turnover lately because people were furloughed, then brought back at reduced pay for fulltime+ work and they were able to find work elsewhere so they left. I’ve definitely thought about leaving as well, but I’ll be going on leave for a baby very soon. I would absolutely check your network and take those recruiter calls though!
      I’ve been hearing recruiters out with the thought that I would just not return after the baby is born. It is a risk though with being last in first out if things get worse. I’m tired of hearing “feel lucky you have a job” when clearly there are jobs out there still (at least in my field)

    4. Yes. My 2020 salary was reduced by 15 percent. What stung was that I had lateraled from another firm in March and was promised more money, but am now making less than I would have made at my old firm. In fact, I am making less than I was clerking. I am still working 10-11 hour days, and dealing with intermittent WiFi issues that are driving me up a wall.

      I started a gratitude journal. It’s a little woo-woo, but it’s helping.

    5. More work since March, fewer people to do it due to layoffs, less support staff due to layoffs justified by the fact that we are all working from home but no acknowledgement of the extra time spent doing certain administative tasks. My numbers in every measurable category are excellent; but it’s not enough. Everyone is short tempered. We get frequent reminders that we are lucky to be employed with salty undercurrents of suck it up or you are out next and easily replaced. It’s all stick at my firm. The partners are hoarding the carrots. I must remember to appear grateful.

    6. I have endured two sets of pay cuts, and I wasn’t even earning good money before all this happened. This attitude probably isn’t helping me, but I actively hate my employer now and have lost respect for my boss, who had offered no acknowledgement to us for how difficult this is. I am looking for a new job but am very pregnant so I don’t know if making a move now would only add stress to my life during a time when I will soon have many sleepless nights and extra burdens at home. It makes me feel better to know I am not the only one here with reduced pay.

  8. I’m having a hard time knowing how to react to some of my friends’ decisions about how to act in this pandemic. Example 1: a local friend and I decided early on that we would meet for a weekly outdoor socially distanced walk. I assumed it would be masked and always wore a mask. But she has stopped wearing her mask because “it’s uncomfortable.” We are outside and not coming close to anyone else. I guess I find it hard not to take it personally. Does she think I enjoy wearing the mask?! No, but I wear it out of wanting to protect her, on the off chance I am asymptomatic and breathing random droplets into the air, and also as a visual symbol that I am choosing to wear a mask in a pandemic. It feels like she is saying her comfort comes above my or anyone else’s health, and it makes me mad.

    Example 2. A friend went on vacation to meet up with her family in New York. They did touristy things, went to a winery, stayed at a hotel. They all flew there, and several of them work in offices. No mention of pre- or post-trip quarantine. She seemed to think that because they only saw each other, they were only at risk to each other… She texted me pics and told me how much fun it was, and while I just said, “looks fun!” I couldn’t help but think about all the risks involved.

    Example 3. A friend is going to the gym and to spin classes! Makes me anxious about hanging out with her anytime soon.

    Do I keep quiet, as I have been, or do I speak up and say why these things make me uncomfortable at the risk of hurting the friendship? Am I overreacting, or are they underreacting? I genuinely don’t know.

    1. I think all you can do is set your own boundaries, which includes saying “I’d love to get together but it’s important to me that we both wear masks” and “I’m glad you are enjoying your spin classes but I am taking a different approach to social distancing and hearing about it makes me anxious. Can we change the subject?”

    2. If it’s bothering you, speak up. Tell her nicely why the things you have noted make you feel uncomfortable. If she’s receptive, try an ask: can you wear your mask when we walk together? If she blows you off, then you have information to make decisions on: maybe keep her as a phone call and text friend for the time being, find another friend to take masked walks with, etc.
      You may end up undermining the friendship if you keep repressing your feelings and don’t say anything. Better to talk it out.

    3. Same thing you would normally do — keep your manners, be gentle to your friends, blowtorch them if you want to never talk to them again. Make “I” statements. “I’m just not ready for unmasked walks yet. This breaks my heart. I hate it now. I can’t wait until this has passed.”

    4. When friends have invited me to things, I’ve noticed that they’ve tried to reassure me by saying that they’ve been “trying not to go out at all.” I am high risk, and no one in my household has been going out, at all. For now I’m just expressing how great their plans sound and how much I appreciate being invited (both true).

      It bothers me a little that mental health seems like a more socially accepted excuse than physical risk? For example, “I’m just too stressed and anxious wondering if I could have caught it after an outing” is more accepted than “my doctor has advised me to stay in.” Maybe it’s because mental health is also being used as a reason to gather?

      1. Yeah, I’ve noticed that the people who are “trying not to go out” are going out the most. They’re not going out, except the outdoor bar, walking with multiple friends, visiting their parents, etc. I think some of them have decided on “not going out” to mean “not doing everything at exactly the same level I was doing before.”

    5. You need to use your words in scenario 1. “Hey, could you please put your mask on before we start walking? If you’re not comfortable, we’ll have to wait until another time.” Done.;

      As for the other situations, don’t hang out with these people and if they ask, tell them why. I don’t think you’re going to gain any traction talking to them about how what they’re doing is selfish and wrong. If they didn’t already figure that out on their own, they’re not going to now either.

      1. +100. People are allowed to make their own decisions. I go to spin right now. I am masked going in and out, but take it off during the workout (consistent with my local guidelines) and we’re spaced out more than 6 feet. I would be super annoyed with a friend who harped on me about my decision, though I completely understand people who don’t want to get together because of it.

        1. Agree. We can’t stay on lockdown forever and I think it’s fine for people who want to socialize to do so in a way that mitigates their risk. What risk is there, really, to two people walking outdoors six feet apart?

        2. Agreed. I would never pressure a friend to hang out with me if she was uncomfortable given the decisions I am making, but I am also not going to change my behaviors to the match risk tolerance of my most risk adverse friends so that they’ll feel comfortable hanging out/stop judging me. If they don’t want to hang out because I’m going to spin class/into the office a couple times per week, then we’ll do zoom calls and I’ll miss them but it’s totally their choice.

          If my friend said she was uncomfortable with my not wearing a mask when we were hanging out I’d respect that and put one on (my default is to wear one in any event) but you do need to express your desires — you can’t expect her to read your mind.

      2. agreed. though i have to say that i am getting so tired of people telling me that if something is legally allowed where they live that means it is safe and they won’t get covid…no it does not mean that at all! even unrelated to covid, there are a lot of activities people choose to engage in that are considered risky, even though they are legal

        1. Yeah, that’s so obnoxious, especially in states that have basically said “f you Fauci” and are committed to sticking their hands in the sand. I would hope that most readers of this site have more brain cells than their elected leaders and can make safer decisions.

        2. I’m the spin class person above. I didn’t say “I’m not at risk bc it’s legally allowed.” I said I made my own decision and am following the laws in place.

        3. +1. Also see: it’s safe because everyone is doing it.

          Or: it’s safe because I just did it today (presumably they think they did it today & didn’t get sick — at least wait a few weeks before asserting it’s safe & recommending it to everyone you know).

    6. For friend one, I don’t think it would bother me personally if you’re staying 6 feet apart. But if it bothers you, you can totally ask her to wear her mask. I would approach it in language about your fear about Covid, to try not to make it feel like a personal attach to her.

      For friends two and three, I personally wouldn’t say anything. They’ve made their decisions and I doubt that anything you say will change their mind. Unless they’ve been living under a rock with no Internet, phone, or tv or any other human contact, they’ve heard about the risk and decided to take them. (Or they are huge Trump supporters and believe covid is a hoax, in which case nothing you say will matter either.) If they asked to meet up, I think you could bring it up then and say you’re uncomfortable because of the other activities. But to just randomly say that you think what they’re doing is wrong will likely come across is judgmental

      1. I would take mostly the same approach. However, masks are not necessary outside if you can stay 6 feet apart.

        1. Nobody is going for a walk with their friend and staying 6 ft apart. How would that work as a social activity? Walk 6 ft behind your friend? I’ve seen people trying to do this on the walkway behind my house — they walk 6 ft apart side by side, which blocks the entire walking path & everyone who is coming from the opposite direction must walk between them & everyone trying to pass must walk between them — I guess they feel safe walking 6 feet apart from each other but what about everyone else who they’re forcing to come in contact with them? It’s so absurd.

          1. Everyone’s risk tolerance is different but the less than ten seconds someone is closer than 6 feet away from me to walk past me while we are outside does not really concern me.

    7. I don’t think it’s worth your energy trying to decide how to judge your friends. All you can do is decide whether you’re comfortable seeing them given the information you have (and the good news is they’re transparent with you.) Everyone is going to take a different approach and all you can control is your own.

    8. Example 1- ask her to start wearing a mask or stop waking with her Don’t decide she hates you just deal with it

    9. I think there could be some mixture of an overreaction and under reaction. You’re all allowed to do what you feel comfortable with. But if you want to be around people wearing masks, as your friends, they should be okay with that as well. If you’re in a situation with any of them you are more than entitled to ask them to put one on. As for the first scenario though, if you are both truly socially distanced from each other and outside, and there are not other around people, I’d probably let her do her.

    10. After our families had quarantined for a couple months, one of my friends and I decided to combine our bubbles. My office required me to go back to work, and she said she would be more comfortable if we separated again. I’m sad to lose the person-to-person contact, but I understand.

      Its very hard for us to break out of our old politeness rules, but we have to. I keep telling my daughter that she has to stay 6′ away from people at the park, and she’s so great at it that when people encourage her to come pet their dogs, she says she can’t get close because of the virus. People then look at me like I’m a lunatic for teaching her this, and I feel awkward and terrible. Another friend who returned from an international flight last week was picking up some packages from an elderly neighbor, and the neighbor insisted on inviting her in. We know being safe is more important than being rude, but its just so, so hard to be rude.

      1. It’s only hard if you don’t practice in advance. Of course it can be hard in the moment, but work on these phrases in advance and you’ll find it easier to set and stick to your own boundaries. Important note: doing that is NEVER rude.

        “Hey, could you please leave the package on the doorstep? I’ll wave to you from the driveway, but we need to keep a safe distance. Thanks so much again for holding it for us!”
        “No really, I insist. I want to make sure we both stay safe and healthy.”
        “Could you please back up a few feet so we can maintain a safe distance? Thanks!”
        “Actually, we’re not having anyone over in the yard right now, but we’d love to have you back in the future when it’s safer.”
        “Please don’t pet my dog right now. He needs to social distance too!”
        “Can you please wait a moment so I can pass through the hallway before you enter it? Thank you!”

    11. Your mask protects your friend. Her mask, if she wore it, would be to protect you. You are absolutely fine drawing a line here.

      This is your health, she apparently doesn’t care to be mildly inconvenienced for you (and let’s be honest, you are a giant baby if you find wearing a mask anything more than mildly inconvenient), you are perfectly perfectly reasonable asking her to wear a mask for you, or not going on the walk if she refuses. There is nothing rude about this. The rude one is your friend.

      You should absolutely do this. Don’t put up with it one more time.

      1. What does she need protection from, though? They’re distanced and outdoors. What, truly, is the health risk involved in that?

        1. Agreed.
          Also, I wear my mask but genuinely find it uncomfortable and suspect that people, in fact, are bothered by them to different degrees. For example, I have seen people driving alone in their cars with one on, so I suspect they forgot they were even wearing it. I rip mine off ASAP after im alone in my car and avoid places where I have to wear one. For example, I’d love to get my hair done but 30 plus minutes in that thing is not worth the discomfort. I’m genuinely ok with high heels and bikini waxes and other things people hate, so I am having a hard time believing I am not ok with mild discomfort. I am not anti mask, but i do think that certain people are more uncomfortable in them than others.

          1. You have a hard time with mild discomfort. Everyone in the medical field wears them all day. You are not that special. You just don’t want to be mildly inconvenienced.

          2. People whose jobs require them to wear masks have told me that it takes a while to get used to it. I think it’s more like putting contacts in than like waxing; the nerves have to be retrained.

          3. If your discomforted by 30 minutes in a mask, imagine how much a case of COVID will discomfort you. Especially if that turns into a chronic lung problem or causes a stroke that gives you brain damage. That’s a lifetime of fun. Definitely forgo the haircut vs exposing your stylist.

          4. I didn’t say I was special just giving honest feedback here. I can accept that others find things uncomfortable even if I don’t, why can’t you? I don’t disagree that they are helpful, but have to admit it feels awful to try to breathe through it.

            I honestly think the more people would wear them if we could admit they feel uncomfortable, they are not forever, and you are not abnormal/ a terrible person if you don’t like the way it feels.

          5. Pretending like masks are just a mild inconvenience for some people is not going to convince them to wear them. You can admit that they are uncomfortable for some people and still say that the right thing to do is to wear them. Stop minimizing people’s experiences. I’ve been wearing contacts for 25 years and don’t notice them but it’d be a huge jerk move for me to claim that they aren’t uncomfortable for some people.

        2. Come on. We don’t have to do social distancing 101 here. There is plenty of information out there showing masks primarily protect others, that 6 feet is a “minimum” social distance, and please note that the more responsible states require masks to be worn outside at any time.

          What if the friend sneezes? Droplets are aerosolized and fly 30 feet.

          Wear the mask.

    12. While I understand that we can’t stay cooped up forever, going to a gym right now is ludicrous.

  9. Looking for advice on what to do with some extra money – please be gentle, I’m not well versed in personal finance matters. I’m working on paying off my student and car loans, both of which will be paid off in a couple of months. After those are paid off I’ll have about $15,000 extra per year above and beyond my standard emergency fund savings, 401k maxed out contributions, etc. Should I take that $15k and put it in the market or pay down my mortgage? My monthly mortgage payment is high (to me), and gives me slight anxiety, but it is manageable/within my means and the interest rate is 3.5%. I would feel a lot of mental relief knowing my mortgage is being paid down. But, I assume it’s more financially prudent to put that $15k per year in the market? I don’t have any brokerage accounts outside of my 401k, so I really don’t know where to start with this. On a similar note, I have around $75k parked in my savings account – this is my emergency “if I get fired” fund (I think my job is stable, but you never know). Is that the best place for this money? Should that be in a brokerage account too? Thanks in advance and apologies if these are naive/silly sounding questions. I truly am lost with this kind of stuff.

    1. Why not split it? 50% to mortgage, which seems to be a stresser for present you. 50% to either general investing in the market OR a Roth IRA (assuming you qualify) for future you? Vangaurd or Schwab websites can get you started easily with investing in general or with a ROTH. I wouldn’t put that much yearly in a money market account, given that you already have a very healthy sum in savings.

    2. I’m not commenting on what is the best financial decision; I’ll leave that to people with more expertise. I used similar extra money to pay off my mortgage, and it was freeing for me. I was then able to take a job that I love but pays significantly less than my prior job; I could not have afforded to make that move if I’d still had a mortgage. Once I got married, my husband and I stayed in the house. We are able to save a lot more now because our housing expenses are much lower. Additionally, while we are concerned about a job loss with COVID, our monthly expenses will be easier to manage without a mortgage.
      Based on personal experience, not having a mortgage has reduced stress and been freeing.

    3. I’m in a similar situation, haven’t made a decision yet, but I’m considering not just paying my mortgage down but recasting it (different than refinancing). Look into whether your mortgage has this option…if I choose to put my money toward the mortgage instead of investing, this is what I will do.

    4. How many months expenses is that $75k?

      Right now, I would beef up the emergency fund so I could live on it for a year (I normally think 6 months is plenty, but this is a weird time), then focus on paying down the mortgage.

      This is based on the fact that I personally think there’s a large chance the stock market will crash in the next year (based on nothing except my own speculation about the future), so I would feel more comfortable with the guaranteed return of paying down the mortgage.

    5. In your situation, my husband I put everything, after we paid off our student loans, towards paying off our house. We have congratulated ourselves on doing so many, many times over the years. It is amazing how much longer you can live on savings, unemployment or underemployment if you have a paid-for house. We haven’t had to do any of that, but it gave us the safety net that allowed us both to change jobs from Big Law to Small Law, which has significantly improved our quality of life. Our mortgage wasn’t high in relation to our income, but even if our income dropped to $0 overnight, we could now live off of our savings for a couple of years, and longer if we re-mortgaged our house. I am well aware of the argument re. making more in the market, but I sleep better in my paid-for house.

    6. You do not mention other savings buckets. Do you have a bucket for travel (if that’s important to you)? For holiday spending? How about pet emergencies? Gifts for other occasions? Make sure your savings account is a high yield one. Although none of them are “yielding” much right now but when the economy rights itself the online high yield accounts will be better than standard. I use ally and within that one account I can designate set amounts or percentages to my various buckets. If 75K is emergency if you get fired or f*ck off fund, then you may want to think about some of the other buckets so that you aren’t tapping emergency when you want to travel or buy gifts.

    7. Have you looked at refinancing your mortgage? It’s very worth it right now, rates are so low. You probably also want to look at how much you will save with extra mortgage contributions vs how much you would make investing . It’s very likely that you’d make more by investing than by paying down the mortgage – I I put the payments I would have made to my mortgage in a Vanguard index fund.

      1. Her interest rate is already 3.5%, how much lower would it have to be to actually make it worth it? I haven’t done it, but I assume there are fees involved in refinancing.

        1. It might also be worth looking at refinancing into a 15 year mortgage – those rates are around 2.5%. It’ll likely increase your payment, but the interest expense falls through the floor.

    8. It seems to me that a cushion of $75,000 is fantastic and the extra $15,000 per year might be better spent elsewhere, but that’s a personal choice. If you decide to go that route, I’d second what someone else said- split it half and half. You’re basically talking about $1250 a month if I’m understanding this right. Plowing an extra $600 per month into paying down your mortgage principal and then putting the other $600 into a Schwartz or Vanguard account that allows you to get more comfortable with investing could be really good for you.

    9. think about re-fing your mortgage!! we JUST re-fied and we are now on a 20 year at 2.7, we could have done a 30 year at 2.85 or a 15 at 2.5. my husband is out of work for the duration of covid (works in large events-tech) and though i have a stable job i was really interested in lowering our payments, which came with the bonus of a lower interest rate. it could be a double whammy of usefulness for you. our payments came down about $400.

      as for the E-fund it’s up to your comfort level. i have a year’s worth of household expenses parked in that and for us it is 42k. the rest i dump into the market over my mortgage because our rate is now so low.

    10. I’m in a similar boat. I have decided to invest the money rather than paying down my mortgage (3% interest rate) because that money would have greater returns in the market. However, my monthly mortgage payment is a small fraction of my take-home pay so that is factored into my analysis.

      Also seconding what another poster said about looking into recasting, since refinancing on such a low interest rate might not benefit you very much.

    11. Could you put 6k of it in an IRA? You should save excess money in investments for retirement, even if the accounts aren’t specifically labelled as retirment (like an IRA or 401k is). I would suggest something like a money market account or an index fund, and you can automate your transfers there.

      Finally, your 75k in savings seems a bit excessive to me, but only you know your own situation. For example, if you lost your job, you’d probably get unemployment for 6 months. Your expenses would be lower because you’d stop saving for retirement while unemployed. If your unemployment continued past 6 months, you might get a roommate. That said, I don’t know how many months your 75k is. Regardless you should put it into a high interest savings account–mine is 2.5%. Ally, online, has at least 1%. Or you could put it in short-term CDs: 15k in a 6 month CD, then 2 months later 15k in another 6 month CD, then 15k in third 6 month CD. You’d be keeping 30k immediately at hand, but then you’d never have to wait longer than 2 months to get 15k to be liquid again.

    12. I really like having brokerage account that’s not tied to retirement. I consider it an “opportunity” fund, because it buys me liquidity and flexibility to make a big life change if an opportunity presents itself.

      1. I agree with Walnut. As much as I want to pay off my mortgage early, I’m not, because:
        -low rate means higher returns in the market
        -I’d be getting a a few years of no payments at the end of my mortgage, but a dollar that far in the future is way less costly than a dollar today
        -If something bad happens to me that extends past my emergency fund, I don’t want to sell my house, but I’m probably not going to be able to get a loan. I prefer having money in more liquid vehicles so I can buy what I need day-to-day until I recover.

    13. Thank you all so much for these great and thoughtful responses! I had not even thought of splitting up the $15k between the brokerage and the mortgage (duh – sounds so simple in hindsight!). That’s a great compromise and would make me feel like I’m not missing the boat on either end. I did look into refinancing, but even at low rates for a 15 or 20 year mortgage, the monthly payment amount, while within my budget is just too high for comfort. The $75k emergency fund is about 20 months of expenses – so it sounds like it may be on the high side compared to others. I have a lot of general anxiety around not having enough money, so I would like to hold on to that, but the staggered CD strategy is a great idea. You all have given me a lot to think about – thank you again!

  10. I started at my current company four years ago as an admin and have since been promoted a couple of times in a different department. However, whenever our current admin is out, it’s considered a given that I’ll handle her responsibilities since I “know them best”. This leads to me doing the work of two or three people depending on if anyone else on my team is out at the same time. I am getting burnt out and frustrated that I’m expected to cover all of these different people and can’t push back on it. Any advice? We have a smallish company so it’s not like we have a ton of other personnel to share the work…but it doesn’t seem fair that it’s always my responsibility when I’m no longer in that role or department.

    1. Ask A Manager has discussed this. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. She recommended that to peers you say “I’m too busy with [actual tasks of my current job] to help with this,” and to management you ask “I’m going to have a time crunch if I try to do this in addition to [actual tasks of my current job]. How do you want me to prioritize?”

      When I worked in Biglaw, I once asked another admin for help in the morning when my admin was out…and got a response at around 5:30 pm saying she was too busy. She probably left immediately after writing it, in case I was going to call or something. I don’t know if her supervisor would have liked it, since she was officially the backup for my own admin in these situations, but it definitely taught me not to expect her help! I never asked again. So for someone with no leverage over you, you could quietly try this.

    2. Can you write up instructions for how to do some of the tasks so people have a self-service option or would they find that offensive?

  11. Did anyone else see that NYT article “Missing the Partner You See 24/7”? I got it in my NYT Parenting news letter, but it’s relevant to anyone who is living with a spouse/partner and you’ve sort of run out of things to talk about. I’ve tried to engage my husband in trying new things, but he is more than happy to keep his current routine – work, go for a walk around lunch, dinner, put baby to bed, watch an episode of Frasier for the 150th time, play online settlers of Catan with his two best friends….

    1. Yes, I find this really tough. The news is too grim to have on and he’s a TV person and I’m a book person. We talk about our kid and work, but don’t have the outside stimulants to introduce new conversation topics. We’ve been working in the (actual) garden loads which I think helps, it gives us something to do together, and my weirdo husband finds actual gardening a nice prelude to metaphorical gardening.

      1. I liked the article for the relationship advice but I have to say, “oozing butt boils” really stuck with me.

    2. Yes. My husband and I are both introverts who don’t mind a lack of conversation, but even we’ve noticed that we have nothing to talk about any more. Yesterday morning I ended up finding something interesting down a rabbit-hole on Wikipedia, and when I shared it with him it was probably the most non-work/kid discussion we’ve had in weeks. It was a lot of fun, as we both tried to fact-check the weirdness and shared what we found with each other.

      1. Yeah I think topics like that are best. Because the news is depressing and you’re not really doing that many interesting or different things, so what’s left?

    3. We are absolutely struggling with this. We are two introverts who are fine with silence, but we have nothing to talk about now that we both hear each other’s work all day long. In pre-COVID times, one of us traveled for work most of the time and getting weekends together was great. So at the beginning of pandemic, we loved having so much time together and we gardened a ton. Now it’s become stale and we don’t even garden. This is on my mind and I plan to discuss it with him this weekend; no solutions, but I’d like to find some way to reconnect better.

    4. We’ve been spending more time apart while at home and it’s been working well. He’s been doing woodworking in the garage and I’ve been messing around in the house with baking and crafts and similar. That gives us something to talk about after dinner, at least, and has been working well.

    5. Routines are comforting for a lot of people, especially in these uncertain times. I’d cut him a break on this. It sounds like he’s an engaged partner and dad. Asking him to be your entertainment because you’re bored is just piling on.

    6. So, so late for this but may I just be the voice of dissent. Since my partner ended his 1.5 hr per day commute my life has gotten so much better. Our child is at daycare and he is finally able to do drop off and after school time at least half the evenings. I went from wake-up-kid-work-gym-kid-dinner-kid-sleep to actually having a little bit of time to myself to unwind at the end of the day and some energy to be nice to him which has made such a positive difference for us. I am also really loving the live online gym classes that save me the short commute and allow me to put something on the stove at the same time as my workout (I can’t live without exercise, it’s the only antidepressant that really works for me). And it’s not like he was chilling the whole time before – he worked long hours + commute and he’s also genuinely enjoying more family time and is actually helping with food prep for the first time in years. This whole thing just literally added more hours into our days and I am so grateful for that outcome. (Yes, there are accompanying stressors but this has been an IMMENSE positive.) I hope each of you can find your own bright spot!

  12. Is anyone else a parent in the SEUS of middle- or high-school kids? I got the very, very sinking feeling that we are either not going back in the fall (or will go back and promptly go on all-virtual-learning lockdown again or the Rube Goldberg semi-remote model will cost me my job and my sanity, not sure in which order).

    I at least have a job I can limp through remotely (compared to some friends who are in-person workers who can’t work remotely). I am thinking that my middle schoolers could combine with an in-person worker’s kids and hire a high schooler to help them stick to their work. But I just cannot do it all myself. And this spring was a complete joke. Anything they did but drawing and writing was mommy-initiated and mommy-led (or, oddly, through the scouts, which really should win a medal for doing a lot of merit badges via zoom when our school failed to do anything on zoom except strictly social meetings).

    Big city SEUS
    Public schools
    Local #s have been heading up since Memorial Day, spread seems to be largely younger people vs old people / nursing home workers

    1. It’s such a shame that so many schools didn’t really do school this spring. My mom is a teacher and her school handled it really well. They did shorter days, partially because electives stopped (no need for band practice, but kids could practice solo after school; hard to do ceramics class without a kiln, no sports or PE) and partially because the world was a stressful place and kids needed a bit of a break.

      Aside from that though, they did real school. The school was already one to one, so every kid had a laptop and internet. My mom taught actual classes on zoom, had actual assignments handed in electronically, gave actual tests and projects with accrual grades.

      Obviously there are many school districts* where most kids won’t be able to have computer access (although my massive, super urban, super poor school district got every single student a computer) but there are so many suburban districts that could have stepped up their game.

      *holding in my rant about quality of education being tied to zip code and thus socioeconomic status

      1. Adding that my mom doesn’t know if she’ll start the year online or in the classroom. She and I are both pretty convinced it’ll be online. We’re in PA

    2. I’m in the SEUS and share your apprehension. I see both sides of the argument of going back to school vs. remote learning. I favor going back as my kids, like yours, didn’t learn much if anything this spring, and I fear they will get further and further behind with more remote learning, especially in math (where their father and I are not much help). They also really, really need socialization. My older teen was put on antidepressants a couple of months ago for depression that I believe was in part caused by being stuck inside and not having the social time that he needs. I know that teachers and administrators will be put at further risk if we go back full time, and those are valid concerns. There are no good answers here. It’s frustrating.

    3. Sympathy, I’m very upset about this. It’s really rocked my worldview, in the sense that I always thought I’d send my kid to a public school next year. We were going to move to an area with higher property taxes and great schools. Now, no way. Staying my neighborhood and paying for any private school that’s close to full time. Frankly, I’m suddenly in favor of all the “school choice” stuff I thought was repugnant just months ago. But the teachers want to call screen time school, so I need to find someone to ACTUALLY teach my kid and you know, also watch him and allow him to be around other kids. I really think we should dismantle a public school system that requires parents to hire out the school’s entire job.

      1. Yeah I’m biased bc I went to a prep school and got a wonderful education.

        I went to a well regarded college and many of my college friends went to the top 5 high schools in their state, were on honor roll, knew several people who had been valedictorian, etc. and I was regularly shocked when something would come up in conversation and no one would know it (basic things like the Ho Chi Minh Trail or the Rosetta Stone). Meanwhile, I was an A/B student (and a few Cs as well), and had learned more.

        I likely won’t be able to send my kids to private school and it’s distressing to me. I didn’t grow up rich (mom was a teacher, dad had a blue collar job) but my parents made it work for my brother and I to go to private school and it was so so worth it.

        There was also so many non-academic benefits (big focus on character education / character development; outdoor experiential learning field trips culminating in the entire class doing outward bound, really knowing your teachers, fairly strict rules and consequences led to no violence/limited drugs/teachers could teach instead of babysit)

        1. I’m aware of that. But it’s a global pandemic that will be taking place for years. Not going to school for years is very harmful to children. Screen time is not a reasonable substitute during that time.

          1. It’s fine not to go to school. It’s always been just one of many possible approaches to raising and educating children.

          2. (I understand that school not being available is still an absolute crisis. But we discuss this without implying that everyone who ever didn’t send their kids to school–even before school was a thing that existed–was making a choice that was “very harmful” to their children, as if that’s some kind of scientific fact.)

        2. Eh. Many parents I know (not during a pandemic) do a lot of educational enrichment activities outside of school because they schools are lacking

          Plenty of schools found a way to do online instruction (rather than worksheets or videos). If my child’s school was only doing worksheets, I wouldn’t hesitate to send them to a school that does actual remote learning (zoom classes that are for learning not socialization)

      2. Let’s be honest. The driving factor for parents right now is having someone “watch” their kids. Anyone here concerned about the education part of that can figure out how to get/keep their children at the right grade level and socialized without in-person school. It’s not easy, but it is necessary.

        Why aren’t parents asking, “Is it safe?” And is it safe for not only my kid but the community? School was designed for learning, not babysitting. Can public school offer that learning without risking people’s lives? Maybe. But first we have to let go of the idea that it babysitting is its primary function.

  13. In addition to this s!te, Slate has been one of my long-time internet addictions. But they’ve switched to a pay model. I enjoy it enough that I may pony up for the subscriptions, but I’m also wondering if it’s a good time to diversify my reading habits. Anything similar out there that you recommend? Looking for a good blend of serious news and pop culture.

      1. Buzzfeed is my bad habit. I keep going but I am let down every time. I think it’s the visual stimulus, all the fun colors.

    1. The Cut. Might have a limited number of articles you can read monthly or whatever now though.

    2. Vox (especially The Goods), Quartz, Wired, The Atlantic, Pop-Up Magazine, The Ringer, NY Mag (specifically Vulture and The Cut), 1843 from The Economist (their lifestyle brand), Zocalo Public Square, Buzzfeed Reader, ProPublica, BBC Culture, The Guardian, WSJ Life and Arts, Nat Geo’s Culture section

      Hit or miss, but they sometimes have great journalism: Vanity Fair, Elle, Teen Vogue, Man Repeller.

      Also highly recommend signing up for newsletters that will curate the best links for you. Austin Kleon’s and Laura Olin’s are both excellent.

      *yes, I consume way too much media*

      1. Love these recommendations…thank you. How are you reading these blogs/sites? on your phone? laptop? IPad or other slim device? I am interested in buying a device to do more reading…ebooks and blogs, websites, etc.

        1. Honestly, on desktop! Or occasionally on my phone. But I am one of those people who always has a million tabs open at work. I use the OneTab extension (highly recommend!) to consolidate them and read when I have more time.

    3. Thanks, all! Good thing it’s lunch time, so I can start browsing all these sites. Thanks for the ideas!

  14. Does anyone think it is likely that the automatic student loan forbearance will be extended past September 30? I’ve been paying at least as much as (if not more than) my regular payment the whole time, but it has been so nice to have my payments go entirely toward the principle.

    1. Yes. I think it’s a likely extension. I don’t think HEROES goes through but a federal forbearance extension is much more palatable (and easy) for Rs. Obviously, don’t count on it until they do something but I concur. I’ve been using my typical payment to bolster my emergency savings and it is amazing how much quicker it’s growing now.

    2. I’ve been doing the same and it’s allowed me to really make a dent. Maybe, maybe the administration will extend it as an olive branch to younger voters, but I’m not holding my breath.

  15. I know that BSA is now co-ed, but I am thinking that some of you have sons / brothers who went to BSA sleep-away scout camps like Philomont (in New Mexico) or the one in WVA or Lake of the Ozarks. Some of them look really, really cool. This year, our options were so limited that I’m open to letting my kids (both scouts) go in 2021 (I think they are operating this year, but travel could be complicated for us), even if I have to drive out in a rented RV and stay / volunteer to help as an adult leader (it totally does not help that I am also watching Ozark now).

    1. My son is a scout. They do one “big trip” every 4 years so the oldest scouts get a chance to go. He missed it altogether because this year was his year. Next year he will be over 18 so can’t go.

      It’s just another piece in the covid puzzle and I know it’s just the fact that we are living in extraordinary times, but it’s going to be one of his biggest bummers about this time – he never got to go on the Big Trip.

      Let your son(s) go on the trip. You don’t have to go. Cub scouts is about little kids and heavily parent-involved. Boy Scouts are supposed to be more independent. You have to let them go and learn to be independent. There are plenty of regular adult leaders on these trips (meaning, adults who are scout leaders year-round, not just for the trips) so your kids will be safe.

      1. If it would cheer your son up, how about suggesting an Outward Bound trip or a NOLS school to him when those get going again? It would scratch the outdoor adventure itch and you don’t have to be under 18 so he can do it next year or the year after.

    2. Both my brothers have gone to Philmont, both as campers and to work, and they had an amazing time. It’s so freaking beautiful out there. I highly recommend going if you can.

    3. My husband and brother both did Philmomt back in the 90s. They still talk about it.

  16. I have lots and lots and lots of fine, straight hair. Currently down to my armpits or so. It’s heavy and tangles easily throughout the day, although the tangles are never “tight” – I can get them with finger brushing, etc. During work times I usually wear my hair down and simple. There have been a lot of pony tails recently….

    I’ve finally got the chance to get another haircut and want it to be a good one. Over the years, stylists always have different ideas on how to best tackle my hair – some say a really basic single-length cut. Others do a bunch of layers and feathering. While obviously I have had better and worse outcomes, it seems to come down more to the skill of the cutter than the approach they choose.

    So. With all that said. I’m going to a new-to-me stylist and want to give good directions. Does anyone else have my hair type and have an opinion on what usually works best?

    1. I have lots of fine wavy hair and in Feb I cut it above my shoulders and LOVE IT. My hair is very bland when it’s long but now it’s short enough to have some movement

      1. ooo, interesting. I’ve worn my hair all sorts of lengths over the years (including an ill advised buzz cut…), and I never managed to get the ends of my hair to stay straight through the day – always flipping out or in. Longer = more weight = less flippiness. How did you solve this? Is it a flat iron?

        1. I have the same hair. The iron will help to some extent but humidity makes it tough. I wear it longer now (below chin but above shoulders) and the length does help. My current stylist uses thinning shears to take out weight from my ears down. They look jagged, and I think that is the right term. Without the thinning shears my hair just forms a big triangle with all the volume at the bottom. She only does this about every third cut I would guess.

        2. Oh it is VERY flippy right now. When it’s above the shoulder, I get less flip but now it’s grown out (I have no desire to get a haircut these days) and extremely flippy (flipping out).

          I honestly think I just have flippy hair – when it was hip length it still did that.

          If anyone has tips for it not being flippy I’m all ears.

    2. Sounds like my hair. I like it to be above my shoulders, sort of halfway between ears and shoulders. It’s basically a blunt cut, but my hairdresser kind of cuts into the ends to give it movement, I think the phrase she uses is, Break up the ends.

      Too many layers don’t really work on fine hair, but a little bit of cutting up the ends seems to give me more fullness. I also found a John Frieda product, it comes in a blue spray bottle, that you spray on damp hair before drying, and I found that it gave me pretty decent volume without making my hair go poofy.

    3. I have this type of hair, although I keep it short. What I’ve learned the hard way is that my hair works best with a very precise, structured cut. Blunt-cut layers usually don’t work well. My stylist scissor-cuts for the length, then she goes through the hair again and makes strategic razor-cuts to make sure everything lays nicely. Even a basic cut can benefit from that type of approach on the last inch or two. It doesn’t look all choppy and crazy; it just creates a smoother, more shaped appearance. When I have had true single-length haircuts, they haven’t looked great (almost triangle-ish).

    4. I have this hair. I avoid layers, and get a shoulder length simple straight cut, with a bit of angling toward the face, Layers in my hair tend not to blend well, so it looks like I have two or more haircuts stacked on top of each other. Not a good look.

    5. I have lots and lots of straight, fine hair (currently down to my waist due to covid). The better haircuts i’ve gotten have been razor cuts- they give my hair lots of body and movement. Straight hair also looks nice with a blunt cut, but getting a good blunt cut is really strangely hard with pin straight hair. So it depends what you want- body and movement == shorter + razor, smooth and even== longer and blunter.

      The thing that has worked best for my hair is the smooth and sleek variant of pantene- absolutely no tangles ever since I started using it. All the folks who rail against silicone oils have curly hair- for straight hair there’s nothing like it.

  17. I’m freaking out a tiny bit. Over the past few days I’ve had a scratchy throat and a deep tickle in the back of my throat/chest. I am a mask wearer during errands and I have been careful about social distancing. If it’s covid, I don’t have a clear answer as to wear I picked it up. Please tell me it’s just a weird summer cold or allergies, which have been terrible this year?

      1. DH got tested yesterday. Made the appointment last week, said it didn’t hurt at all, just felt like you were going to sneeze (and he is a wimp with pain). You can do this!

        1. Routines are comforting for a lot of people, especially in these uncertain times. I’d cut him a break on this. It sounds like he’s an engaged partner and dad. Asking him to be your entertainment because you’re bored is just piling on.

        2. What I meant to say was that I also got tested and after hearing everyone whine about it, I was surprised at how painless it was. It’s somewhat uncomfortable, not painful, more like an unfamiliar feeling. But as I told my sister, I’d much rather have a covid test than a Pap smear!

          One of my male coworkers had to have a covid test around the same time, and we were texting about it. We were both typing at the same time – I was typing “I didn’t think it was that big of a deal” while seeing his …. and his text came through “it was awful, I felt like they were trying to take part of my brain.”

          There’s a reason women are charged with doing the childbirth.

          1. It might just be a personal thing. My best friend had two ten pound babies with no epidural and still described covid testing as being akin to a brain biopsy…

    1. I have the deep tickle and I’m waiting on test results. No harm in getting tested. Avoiding going out, wearing masks, diligent hand washing, etc all cut down on your likelihood of getting covid but they don’t eliminate it. You could have picked it up from grocery shopping or any other time you’re out and about.

      1. This. Probably should get tested, but other illnesses/allergies don’t stop bc of Covid.

    2. Masks and social distance are public health solutions (they reduce transmission enough to keep hospitals from being overloaded). It’s a numbers game. Some people will still catch the virus this way.

      If an individual’s goal is to not personally get COVID19 (vs. just playing the odds), different PPE and protocols are needed.

      1. +1. Cloth masks cut down transmission but by definition they do not stop the virus from spreading 100%, so unless you are wearing N95 masks and face shields everywhere you may have been exposed.

    3. No one can tell you that. If you think you might have Covid get tested. I just did this morning because I’m having GI issues! They’re probably due to too much ice cream but the only way to find out is to get tested.

    4. I had a tickle in my throat the other week that lasted a few days despite the usual homeopathic treatments, and I was convinced it was Corona at first. Then I started thinking about how I’ve been running the fan above our bed higher lately and the AC has been running higher. Once I turned the fan down, it went away. Maybe you should get tested if you can easily, but it could be environmental issues as well.

    5. Two different friends also somehow managed to get strep despite what I firmly believe was good distancing. When their strep results came back positive, we all breathed a collective sigh of relief. Strange days we live in.

      This is to say: it could be something pretty routine, and testing does help!

      1. I got strep in April-May while sheltering in place solo (and being really strict about it). My doctor said she was seeing quite a bit of it actually go around. I really have no idea how I got it. I required two rounds of antibiotics to get rid of it. COVID test was negative.

    6. Hi! I was you a few weeks ago and went and got a test (ultimately negative, glad I went). Go get a test. Be aware that test result turnaround has recently increased, even in states that aren’t spiking, and ability to get a test has gotten worse in the spiking states. I hope you feel better soon.

    7. My fiance and I have been trying for 3 days to get tested. He’s been feeling similarly, also without any clear exposure instances. I’m high risk, so we’d both love to get to get some clarity, but its just not an option where we are. Ugh.

  18. Does anyone have a YouTube Channel? This isn’t for me trying to be an influencer — our PTA is trying to make a channel for middle-schoolers to have ready for when we go back to distance learning. Google was mainly for influencers / monetizing, which we don’t want or need.

    1. I set up a youtube channel years ago to share longer videos of my kids performing at recitals, school plays, etc. with family – everything set to private. It was very easy to set up, as I recall.

    2. Does your school use Google Apps for Education? It’s very easy to create a channel linked to a school account. And as a school administrator, I hope the work you’re doing is alongside the people who oversee educational technology in your district, or else much of your work could be a wasted effort.

  19. It’s kinda funny to see all my coworkers hair completely grown out. It wasn’t that obvious at first especially for the women who already had long hair, but now it’s starting to be (including for me!)

    1. Agreed. I have long hair anyway but I’m starting to get it tangled & caught on things like I haven’t done since I was a kid. One of the women on my team has always worn a complicated looking up-do and she’s still doing it but it’s starting to look precarious :)

    2. Ugh. I’m so glad we don’t do conference calls so we can just concentrate on work.

  20. Can anyone tell me about the Cornelius/Davidson area of North Carolina? It’s on our radar as a nice place to live- we’re exploring milder winters after the bitterness of the upper midwest. If you’re familiar with the area- what’s it like? What’s the religious/political bent of most residents? What are people proud of, about the area, and what do they roll their eyes at?

    1. I lived in CLT for for several years, a bit south of that area. If you like horrendous heat and humidity and year round allergies, it’s fantastic. Lots of people say they live there because they love the weather and I think they’re all completely crazy! I hated it and left.

    2. This is my take as a resident of Charlotte, having attended to Davidson College for undergrad, and having parents who have retired to Davidson – we all love it. The town of Davidson is heavily intertwined with the college, which I see resulting in that you have a lot of residents that are deeply invested in the town and its development. So, the zoning department at Davidson is very nit picky about construction and development in the area. A very small part of Davidson is on Lake Norman. I don’t know much about living in Cornelius, but a much larger part of it is directly on Lake Norman and it has a lot more commercial centers than Davidson. Much of the Charlotte metro area/Mecklenburg county leans blue. But if you drive 25 minutes outside city limits, I’d say you’re firmly in Trump country. People are more religious here than what I have experienced in other parts of the country, leaning Christian vs. another religious, and more specifically, leaning Presbyterian/Methodist rather than Catholic/Episcopalian/Lutheran. However, there are constantly people moving to Charlotte and the religious, racial and ethnic makeup of the area is constantly evolving. I’d say there’s a lot of pride in building the city and making things happen (it’s easy to get in on the ground floor of something vs. in a a much larger city), but a lot of eye rolling about new development construction (which is everywhere). There is also a big push now on economic mobility and affordable housing.

    3. It is part of greater CLT so full of people from NY, Ohio, and Michigan. Don’t commute from there to CLT. Even with the new toll lanes it is a horrid commute. Schools are better at the lake. Davidson charter school is very good. Do you golf? You will like it.

    4. No personal experience, but my boomer parents moved to Davidson after decades in liberal cities in the midwest. They’ve had a nomadic life (TN -> WI -> IN -> WI -> MN -> Davidson, NC -> MI) They felt that Davidson was a HUGE change politically and socially, and did not fit their progressive midwestern values. While obviously there are people of all stripes everywhere, they didn’t find a critical mass of people like themselves and left as soon as possible job-wise. They did like the weather.

      1. This is almost hysterical. Mecklenburg County is the Great Satan, sort of what like Northern Virginia / People’s Republic of Arlington is to the rest of Virginia. If a rich goft-centric area is not whatever enough for them, but somewhere in Indiana was OK, maybe they are unicorns. Most people here are from somewhere else. That somewhere else is usually D-leaning or D-heavy and Catholic (Roman, but we have our Orthodox and Greek Orthodox churches as well). Northern Mecklenburg County is pretty white, and generally older / better educated / wealthier than the rest of the county (the wedge of South Charlotte exempted). The jokes about Cary NC (Containment Area for Relocated Yankees) are true for many areas of CLT. Unlike many smaller cities in the SEUS, it is OK to be from elsewhere and OK to be new here.

        The weather is OMG humid in the summer, so there is that. Nowhere but San Diego has great weather 24/7/365, so there is always a tradeoff.

        Public schools are good, great, and wretched (and all s*cked b*lls in the spring); charters flourish and also run the range. If you are looking at WFH, north Meck would be OK; if you are looking at commuting, live close-in in CLT and have a weekend place at the lake.

        1. They didn’t love IN either, FWIW, and I don’t consider IN to be part of the “real” midwest (but that’s a distinctly upper midwest point of view I’ve learned from a 538 poll.) I have no horse in this race, as I’ve never even been to North Carolina.

          Anyways, I think your post speaks for itself and OP can decide if that sounds nice for her. The way you’ve described the Greater Charlotte area is not how I would describe the midwest communities that I have personal experience with. Liberal means different things different places, and social values are different. Perhaps not in Chicago or the Twin Cities, but there’s no way you can argue that Madison or Ann Arbor or Rochester or Green Bay are similar to Davidson in culture and social values.

        2. (I’m anon at 12:11 and the background is that North Carolina has exactly 100 counties) My personal favorite phrase is “North Carolina has 99 counties and the Great State of Mecklenburg.”

          Charlotte metro area has a million plus people living here (google says the MSA is 2.6 million….), and some sort of stat that 45 people move here a day (on average). You have all types of people here. I think it’s significantly more conservative here than New York City, San Fran, or Los Angeles, but most places are. What seems to be a rather large percentage of Davidson alums have retired to the town of Davidson (my father included), further connecting the school and town. As an alum myself who actively mentors students at the college, it’s significantly more liberal leaning than when I was there 15 years ago. But Davidson will never be a college town then way Ann Arbor or Madison are. You’re talking about tens of thousands of undergrads and grad students at those schools vs. just shy of 200 at Davidson.

    5. I don’t have the details you are looking for, but I also mentioned this town above in the “fantasy relocation” thread. One of my very closest friends moved there from NYC with her family, and they love it. They are middle of the road democrats and have no issue fitting in politically. They also do not go to church. They joined a local country club and seem to have made quite a few friends. I have visited a few times and always enjoy it. Lake Norman is beautiful.

    6. Just make sure you visit in July or August, because if you’re not used to Southern humidity, you really need to experience it for a week or so before you move. I’d say you get used to it, but I think you have to be born into it. My northern husband has never adapted and asked me the other day (after I walked in from an outdoor activity on a 95 degree day with god knows how much humidity) how I wasn’t dead. Luckily everywhere has central air and if it really bothers you, you just limit outdoor activity in July and August (and sometimes June). The weather the rest of the year is lovely.

      1. Having lived in both Houston (humid heat) and now a desert (dry heat with 100+ highs all summer) I find these times of year give me good insight into what I really like to do vs. what I just do by convenience. The things right now that I will stock up on gatorade and go do outside are those that I really like to do lol.

  21. My gigantic corporation has just rolled out a new HR/Performance/Career Development initiative. I’ve spent three hours this week on webinars learning about this amazing paradigm shift and the resultant Refelction Dialogues and Leadership Attribute Templates we will be using going forward.

    I can feel the collective global eye-roll in my bones. This isn’t my first rodeo, nor even my fifth, but I will never get used to this.

    1. I feel you! It’s so hard to mute the audible eyeroll when my companyintroduces their next big idea: Culture change! Re-org to [add many new management layers] make things better! Another re-org! Website changes (for the worse)! Other initiatives that range from buzz word hell to things you know they will tout on the website but that will never be fully adopted in the actual working environments. We love diversity! My dept is a testament to the fact that ‘they’ don’t.
      I’m sorry you’ve been stuck in meetings for these changes. Don’t feel like you HAVE to get used to it. Focus on just getting thru it and continuing to do the good work you do. At the end of the day you have to keep doing the work and no amount of new idea implementation is really going to change that. Also: it’s almost the weekend. Hang in there.

    2. Genuine question as an HR person who rolls out these initiatives and sometimes wonders whether my whole career is a sham. Is it something specifically about the initiatives? The fact that they’re more sizzle than steak? That you already know how to develop your people and help them grow their careers?

      1. Not the OP, but: yes. My experience with these things is that they’re totally superficial. They require people to use new buzzwords or maybe a snazzy new workflow system, but it’s the equivalent of moving food around on your plate. Often it adds dumb tasks to individual’s workloads, without ever taking anything away to compensate. It also takes time and resources away from the core business, as well as preempting more worthwhile, substantive changes that staff actually want but the employer doesn’t want to make.

        I’m so glad now to work at a very uncool non-profit health system. Nobody even says “circle back.” I successfully shut down a request for an additional tracking spreadsheet a few months ago by proving we have never needed anything of its kind.

        1. “… as well as preempting more worthwhile, substantive changes that staff actually want but the employer doesn’t want to make.”
          +1000

        2. “Often it adds dumb tasks to individual’s workloads, without ever taking anything away to compensate.” So, so true. These programs are often well-meaning, I think, but never have the teeth to be implemented well.
          A couple years ago my company implemented a new performance system to replace our year-end reviews, which was supposed to be forward-looking (I think) with goals that we could reach and with frequent management check-ins. My manager has never checked in (specifically on this; we talk frequently about actual, substantive work). This system makes no sense for my job function but it’s one more thing on my plate that adds nothing of substance or value to my work.

          1. Just wanted to clarify the “manager never checked in” piece — I suspect he hasn’t done so because, in addition to managing a large team, he also inherited the work of two executive lawyers who left the company and whose positions weren’t backfilled. So he’s doing three jobs, while also being expected to have regular “goal check-ins” with his team. Guess which part of his job is lowest priority?

      2. I’m sorry if my comment makes you feel like a sham; I worried about that a little as I wrote it. I don’t think it reflects on the discipline of HR or the folks that work in HR so much as the spin that the corporate world can put on it. It’s endless repackaging – a performance review is still a performance review even if you call it a Reflection Dialogue. And the enthusiasm with which they expect it to be adopted. I’m happy to learn new techniques and update my skills, but not everything can be a game changing paradigm shift. Sometimes it’s just an updated checklist, and I’m happy to have it but I don’t want to put a poster on my wall with pictures of happy jumping people saying “I’m Reflecting!”.

        I imagine if it was left to HR people and not corporate spin people, the results would be pretty different.

        Cheers!

        1. No don’t worry at all! I genuinely want to know and I think that sometimes HR stuff goes through because no one wants to say the hard things or admit that they don’t want to spend the time or uncomfortable work of having tough conversations or actually making an inclusive workplace. So much of it hinges on great leadership (like anything else). Also I totally agree that a lot of HR processes are over-engineered and represent what HR people think is cool vs. what business people actually find value in. Any good HR person should want to know your feedback and understand how they can better help you manage your people or grow your career or whatever.

    3. Are you a fellow Microsoftie? Cheers, and good luck with this! I’m happy to be an IC. :)

  22. Did anyone read the AAM letter today with the woman who was struggling to keep up with work while handling 100% of childcare duties herself because her psychiatrist husband worked 9-5 and couldn’t have the kid in the office with him? Several people rightfully pointed out that he should also have to adjust his schedule to some extent to accommodate their childcare and the amount of commenters who jumped to his defense (including several men who claimed that they “let” their wife handle 100% of childcare while they WFH because she prefers it and they just mess things up whenever they try to help) was so disheartening.

    1. Yes, I read that and way too many similar stories. It seems like Covid is going to be a huge setback for women’s presence in the workforce. It’s awful.

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