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Updated: Jul 29, 2022 175 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Gingham Lightweight Cotton Shirt

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When the weather is warm, I’m looking for the airiest, most breathable fabric I can find. For a crisp look on a hot day, I like to layer a lightweight cotton shirt under a sheath dress so that my arms are covered, but I won’t be overheating.

This striped shirt from J. Crew Factory would look beautiful under a navy sheath. Add in some pearls and heels and you’re on the business side of business casual without showing up to work already sweating.

The shirt is $39.50 at J.Crew Factory and comes in sizes XXS–3X. It also comes in four other colorways, including ginghams and a pink stripe.

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Sales of note for 9.10.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    Looking for interview tips from the wise hive. I am a lawyer interviewing for what would be my first in-house job. One of my interviews (Zoom) will be with the head of finance. What kinds of questions should I be prepared to answer? General interview tips would also be appreciated.

    • Cat

      Is finance going to be your main client? They’ll want to see evidence that you are practical with your advice and that you “get” the industry. Be ready with examples of how you worked through a sticking point with a creative solution, or descriptions of key issues you’ve been seeing recently and ways they have been working out.

      • Anon

        +1 and if finance is going to be your main client, you should be prepared to demonstrate that you understand corporate financials generally.

    • Anonymous

      If you are interviewing for a commercial counsel role in a software company, finance may ask you questions about payment terms (split payments, net 60 v. net 30) or contract terms that would lead to revenue recognition issues, such as termination for convenience. If you can look at their terms online or find a copy through searching, get an understanding of what their standard terms are and think about how you might approach those in a negotiation. If this isn’t a commercial counsel role and is instead a corporate generalist, or employment role, then the above probably wouldn’t come into play, but you may work with finance on comp plans. Other general interview tips – if you can show you understand reporting metrics, or have an above basic understanding of how to use Excel, that will show you can speak the same language as finance. Legal and finance are partners in making the business hum. Source: 15 years in house.

    • Anon

      In-house attorney here. I think emphasizing that that you recognize that legal is a cost center for the business and trying to find ways that you can bring value to the company (finding ways to be more efficient etc.) will be a good point to try to make. You want to show that you can partner with the business, and want to learn to understand and anticipate their needs. Relationships are key. You want to show that you can be someone that the business will WANT to reach out to; you can be a partner they reach out to with questions to prevent problems (rather than just coming to you to fix it when there is a problem).

      If the company is publicly traded, read (or at least skim) their recent 10-Q filings. I did this before I interviewed for my first in-house job, and this helped immensely to understand that business. And, I think it went a long way that I could identify something from the 10-Q in my interview. Definitely research the business and industry. Think about what the key areas of legal concern may be for the company.

      As far as questions, I think be prepared to answer questions on how to communicate difficult news (or at least the answer that someone doesn’t want to hear), balancing competing stakeholders, and acting on limited information will be helpful.

      If you are more junior or have been at a law firm, being able to emphasize direct client communication will be helpful (even if you have just ghost written emails that the partner has sent, emphasize that). Being able to present yourself in a way that is approachable for the business will go a long way. Show that you understand that the business doesn’t want a legal memo like you would have prepared at a law firm; they just want the answer.

      Good luck to you! I was lucky to move in-house after a few (miserable) years at a law firm. I can’t describe how much my quality of life improved.

    • Anonymous

      My friend had a zoom interview last week where they asked about an interesting item on a shelf in her background. They asked for a closer look so she had to get up and bring it over to the camera. Her bottom half was wearing denim cutoffs.Interviewer said they were disappointed she did not dress properly for the interview. So shady but she didn’t get the job.

      • Anon

        My employer is known to ask people to point the camera around the room to show what the rest of the room they’re interviewing from looks like. I genuinely do not know why they do this. I would have thought that it’s a good sign if an interviewee took steps to ensure a professional Zoom background, knowing that not everything in their living space makes for an ideal Zoom background!

        • Anonymous

          This feels so wrong. What exactly are they hoping to learn? You can have a neat or messy house and still be a good employee. You can live in a fancy place or be poor and still be a good employee. So long as the background is professional, why should it matter what is out of frame? Is this some sort of way of seeing whether there are children’s items around? What if there is a bookshelf and they don’t like the titles you read?

          This feels so ick in such a big way.

        • anon

          I would find that extremely invasive and I would likely withdraw my candidacy based on that.

        • Anon

          Looking for proof of children because they know they can’t ask about children?

          • Anon

            Or anything else that is discriminatory – photos with a same sex partner, evidence of disability (cane, walker, oxygen tank, etc.), or simply not being “wealthy” enough to be acceptable. I put the latter in quotes because some people sit on a big pile of 401k savings and have very modest living quarters.

      • buffybot

        That is the dumbest “gotcha” with zero substantive reflection of the interviewee’s skills and personality.

  2. Anonymous

    Anyone use foam tiles as a floor covering? Our basement has flooded a few times and landlord removed the carpet; it’s now an ugly concrete floor. We use this room as a BR. Thinking of covering it in foam tiles instead of a rug; we plan to only be in the house another year. Anything I should keep in mind? Particular recommendations?

    • Anon

      Is there any chance the landlord would consider letting you have inexpensive non-padded carpet installed? We just had carpet quoted for a basement that’s had water damage before. Our quote turned out to be only $1k to carpet the entire basement (1200+ sq ft) including stairs. I would think one room might be really inexpensive, if your landlord would allow it. Or I’ve had good luck with buying really large rugs off wayfair (discounted) and putting nice padding underneath. Which might be better because then you can take it to the next house.

    • OP

      We have foam tiles covering our workout area in our covered patio and they work for that purpose, but I wouldn’t want to walk over them in a bedroom – they’re too plasticky and squishy. In your shoes, I would probably get a cheap, but large rug (possibly second hand if it’s in good condition), even one of those large weatherproof rugs made out of nylon would be better than foam I would think. In the alternative, house slippers would work too.

    • Anon

      Yes, for same reason – pulled up basement carpet after flooding. We bought random interlocking ones on Amazon that are fine. For a bedroom, I’d probably get an inexpensive rug to lay on top because it will look and feel nicer.

    • Anon

      If it’s a legal bedroom wouldn’t the landlord be required to replace it?

  3. anonymous

    Has anyone had covid-like symptoms, but tested negative? This past week, I’ve had a bad sore throat, fever and cough. An at home test was negative and a PCR test at the pharmacy was also negative. And I started my period, so it’s been a fun week. I work from home anyway, so I’ve been keeping to myself.

    If I want to torture my worst enemy, I will give them a tickle in the back of their throat that never goes away and keeps them up all night coughing. I’m seriously considering taking a shot of liquor along with my cough syrup at night so purposefully intensify the effects. I haven’t gotten a solid night of sleep all week due to this stupid cough.

    • PolyD

      There are other things going around besides COVID. And I saw an article somewhere that because many of us have been wearing masks and living more limited lives, we aren’t getting the “micro-exposures,” for lack of a better word, that might protect us from colds and such – enough of an exposure to get some immunity without really getting sick. So we are more susceptible to other bugs.

      A friend of mine had COVID in June, recovered completely, and then got a whopper of a cold that he found to be worse than the COVID.

      • PolyD

        Oh, also, when I had a cold like that years ago, my doctor gave me guaifenisen, or however you spell it, with codeine. That and some Tessalon perles helped me sleep. I also found it useful to take a Tums before I went to bed, because the coughing would trigger reflux which would trigger more coughing.

      • OP

        Ooh, that makes sense. Whatever I have is awful and I haven’t been this sick in a long time. I was able to get a virtual appt with the doc, and he prescribed Tessalon and cough syrup with codeine. Hoping those help tonight. I’ll try the Tums too. Thanks for the tip!

      • Pep

        This happened to my mother. She and my dad had COVID in Portugal, with mild symptoms. After quarantining, they were finally cleared to fly home, and my mom caught a cold somewhere along the way that she found to be much worse than the COVID ever was.

      • Anon

        It’s looking like COVID infection can leave the immune system ill prepared to fight off anything else for a while. So it could be COVID’s fault (not masking’s fault) that the cold was so bad.

        • PolyD

          That’s likely true as well. Measles does that, too – it’s not unusual for a viral infection to mess us your immune system and weaken it for a little while.

    • Anon

      I had something like this about a month ago. I caught it from my kid (husband showed no symptoms). Kid and I both tested covid negative repeatedly on home tests and I also did a pcr test after several days of coughing. Also negative. It was a strange illness as I had literally no other symptoms beyond the horrible cough (it was dry and then got phlegmy… yuck). I found delsym really helped me. Also it cleared right up when we went to the beach so maybe get some sunshine/vitamin D.

      • OP

        Thankfully I live in a house so maybe I’ll try sitting outside on the deck to get some sun!

    • Shelle

      Yes a few weeks ago I had those symptoms for several days. I finally tested positive on day 4 or 5. From when symptoms began, I isolated as if I had covid. Hope you feel better soon!

      • Anon

        In contrast, at the first minimal symptom, my home test lit up positive instantly. Agree to stay home and away from people, colds suck too, but there’s stuff going around that isn’t Covid.

      • anon

        Same, I had multiple negative at home and PCR tests before I tested positive on day 5. Luckily, my symptoms started improving almost immediately after I tested positive.

      • OP

        Thank you! I did the PCR test on Tuesday after the first symptoms started showing up on Sunday. Either way I am planning on isolating until the symptoms clear up. Whatever this is, it is not fun.

      • Anonymous

        Everyone should stay home when sick even if it isn’t COVID. We should always have been doing this.

    • anon

      If PCR tests comes back negative (you may consider taking two to eliminate a “false negative”), you probably just have one of the dozens (or hundreds) of other respiratory viruses that cause similar symptoms. In that case, you’re good to treat as an ordinary illness and stay home until symptoms abate, at which point you’re not “sick” anymore. If it does turn out to be Covid, you need to do the Covid-pokey of quarantine, waiting period post-quarantine, masking, and other life-disrupting, ineffective measures to appease the demands of our public health establishment who failed so miserably at responding to Covid in the first place.

    • anon

      I feel like everyone has forgotten that viruses like the common cold still exist.

    • Anonymous

      Yes but get another PCR if youre really concerned. My brother was exposed and had symptoms. He took rapids every day, did a PCR on day 3 and day 4. On day 5 he got results for both the PCR tests and the first was negative and the second was postiive. He didn’t test positive on the rapids until day 5.

      FWIW he is vax’d and boosted, 33 and completely healthy. He was knocked out for a week and still had symptoms 2 weeks later. His fiancé tested positive eventually with no symptoms. My dad (vax’d and boosted, 65, not in peak health but also not immunocompromised) was exposed to the same person my brother was, tested positive on day 1 of symptoms and had basically a crummy cold for a few days.

      bodies are crazy.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, my kids had this all year at school. They had all kinds of nasty viruses (one was for sure worse than COVID- had my kid out for 3 weeks with retched cough). Zillions of PCR tests, all negative.

    • anon

      Yes, like 10 times over the course of the pandemic. Covid symptoms are common with many, many, many other respiratory infections. My bouts with Covid (three and counting at this point) have paled in comparison to a couple of the other non-Covid infections I’ve had over the last two years.

      • Anonymous

        “Covid symptoms are common with many, many, many other respiratory infections.”

        This. The ongoing joke in our house is that everything AND nothing is a covid symptom.

      • anon

        I had a bad cold in October that was much worse than the flu I had in December or the Covid I had in June.

    • Anonymous

      I experienced this a few weeks ago and was convinced it was Covid even though all the tests were negative. Then last week I came down with what I thought was a head cold – sniffles, sinus headache that went away after the first day, a little coughing mostly at night but it’s productive not dry, no fever, sore throat loss of taste/smell – but I took a home test and it popped positive in like 30 seconds and I’ve continued to get a positive test every day this week. So I guess I didn’t have Covid before but I sure do now. Sigh.

    • anon

      It may be a cold or you may just have a low viral load. It took me three tests over five days to get the faintest of positive lines to show up on my test a couple weeks ago. This while I already had the sore throat, fever, and other symptoms. I stayed isolated regardless and was glad when I finally managed to secure the positive result I needed to bow out of an in-person work meeting.

    • Anon

      My daughter had similar symptoms and tested negative repeatedly. When her symptoms were not resolving after 5-6 days, she went to the doctor who diagnosed a bacterial sinus and throat infection. Antibiotics cleared it right up.

    • Anon

      No advice but I have something very similar right now. The cough at night is the worst. And the headache. I’m so tired. Symptoms since Monday but all at-home Covid tests have been negative.

    • Anonymous

      Are you getting nasal swabs every time? You should try swabbing your throat. I had 2 negative PCRs on a nasal swab and got a positive on a home test when my doctor recommended swabbing my throat. (My entire family had Covid so it was highly likely I had something else).

      • Anon

        I saw this advice going around, but I think it’s been debunked by further research. It’s looking like the pH of the throat can cause false positives on home tests.

        (For a while it looked as though they weren’t false positives because during the Omicron wave, practically everyone testing had COVID anyway, so later PCR testing was backing up those positives.)

        If the pendulum has swung back to support throat-swabbing on rapid tests, someone correct me!

    • Anon

      Just for the cough, see if you can get some Rx cough medicine via a Telehealth visit. Sleep deprivation is a well known form of torture.

      Even better if your pharmacy has delivery or drive through.

  4. Anonymous

    A money post here a while back got me thinking. I don’t think I’m doing anything more extravagant than last year – occasional meals out, same commute to the office – and have the same car, pay, and friends. But… my savings account has less money now than when I started the year. Anyone else in the same boat?? I am in disbelief that it could be inflation or maybe I truly have more small expenses I don’t see this year?

    • FP

      Is it travel? I didn’t travel much in 2020 or 2021. I feel like not only are the floodgates open (I want to go everywhere now because I couldn’t in the last two years!) but also travel is significantly more expensive with inflation. I just booked a trip to NY this fall and couldn’t believe it was hard to find a decent hotel for under $500 a night.

    • Anon

      Mine is a combo of both. I’ve made a few purchases for the house, but also things are just a bit pricier and I haven’t dug into my expenses to see what I can easily cut. There’s always something.

    • Anon8

      Definitely same here. For me it’s inflation + doing way more this year than last. I feel like ever since the vaccine became widely available it’s been a very slow ramp up to more activities and social life again, which I had spent basically $0 for the better part of two years.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Could be a little lifestyle creep, but probably a combo of inflation + gas prices.

    • Anon

      My grocery bill alone is up 40% over last year, or was before I started deliberately choosing cheaper meals. I feed 3 teenaged boys, so 40% of that is real money. I am not sure how you think inflation wouldn’t affect you when almost everything is significantly higher than it was a year ago. That seems a little naive.

      • Anon

        Exactly. Groceries and gas are through the roof – of course you’re paying more!

    • Anonymous

      I would look at your bank and card statements to see if there are areas of new/increased spending (there are for me, like Ubers, which I never used last year), but inflation is real, and even more real in some parts of the country (e.g., Atlanta is getting crushed). Gas, groceries, pet food, household supplies, restaurants, etc. are all substantially more expensive this year than last.

      • anonshmanon

        and to really be meaningful, you need to not only look at spending now, but compare to a statement from e.g. last year.

    • Anonymous

      Same for me and I’m basically still sitting home so it’s not like I’m burning gas or buying expensive plane tickets. For me some of it is general inflation – electric now that we’re fully in AC season in the south. Nat gas early in the year. Food. And mainly a decent sized tax bill early in the year because market earnings in 2021 were basically like having a second job, yet it’s not like those translated to cash in hand because I reinvest.

    • Anon

      I’m in the same situation. Inflation is taking a real bite, and my wages haven’t even remotely tried to keep pace. I’m paying more for rent, electricity, gas and groceries. I opened an Etsy store to try and generate extra income, but that’s not working out

  5. Anonymous

    I confess I don’t understand the blouse under sheath recommendations. Doesn’t that create a pinafore? I am not up for anything that childish for work.

    • Cat

      I like it best with silk blouses because they don’t rumple up under the dress, but I find it very elegant and clean looking. A nice alternative to layering OVER a sheath.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Shirt-under-sheath reads 90s to me (like what the rom-com lead would wear to her made-up corp job).

      If I tried it the shirt would bunch up so bad I’d look like I was smuggling parakeets or something.

      • Anne-on

        I 100% did the white dress shirt under black sheath dress in the early aughts. It looked cute but was VERY ‘main character goes to her corporate marketing/PR/generic lady’ job. I wouldn’t do it now as it strikes me as a more juvenile outfit but I wouldn’t look askance at someone younger wearing it.

        • aBr

          I’ve seen a lot of more “senior” in their career women rock this look. Differences – fit on dress is impeccable and the shirt generally has some substance to it – think starched cotton with french cuffs a la Miranda Priesley in Devil Wears Prada – and a chunky pearl necklace. Basically, the whole outfit screams rich b#$@$.

          • Anon

            Mine was a black sheath worn with black tights and black heeled oxfords, and the blouse was French blue silk, tucked into my tights inside the sheath. I really thought I had it goin’ ON in 1997.

            I believe I also had a modified Rachel hairstyle at the time.

    • Anon

      Omg this was MY LOOK in the late 90s. If it’s a work sheath and not a nap dress it won’t look like a pinafore. I just don’t know how current t it is.

  6. Josie P

    ISO platform sandals, or maybe even platform chunky boots, to go with black tie dress, with like a 3-4″ total height but not a lot of heel. I have 2 dresses to choose from, one is purple with black lace overlay and one is nude with black lace overlay. Event will be outside so I want flat-bottom shoes, platform is for comfort! Not for work so shoes can be fun. :) Budget $200, I wear a 9. TIA!

  7. Law Firm question

    Are billable hour requirements in a job offer from a small firm (less than 20 employees total) negotiable?

    • Anonymous

      Sometimes yes. Often they are suggestions not up or out firing targets. In a small firm, the feast or famine nature of the job can mean you truly don’t have hours to bill during a number of days or even a couple weeks. So if you don’t have any clients you may want to ask a few more questions. In my experience a small firm won’t punish you for not having hours if they don’t have them to delegate and you don’t ask for something else. But if you’re expected to bring in business that can vary.

    • Sybil

      As long as you’re good with the requisite paycut, sure. My former firm allowed for this. I worked 60%.

    • Anon

      I’m an equity partner at a small firm. I think everything is negotiable but if you’re working less than the average person there, they’re not going to see you as a go-getter/future partner material. What is the billable hour requirement for a small firm and are you looking to work part-time for a short term or permanently?

      • Law Firm question

        It’s 1900 and it’s a permanent, full-time position. That seems high to me for a small firm and doesn’t come with the corresponding big-law type of salary offer…

        • Anon

          Sorry for the late response. 1900 is high, especially if you don’t get any credit for pro bono work, biz dev time, or other filler hours. If you’re in litigation and you go to trial, you can get it all easily, but if you’re basically in any other type of practice, that’s going to be hard. I don’t know if I would negotiate it down (especially without the big-law pay) unless you love the job otherwise. I guess I would just note that it’s not great – I would much prefer to work someplace with 1600-1800 hour requirement – and would maybe wait for a better offer if you’re lucky to be in a situation where you have options.

  8. Anon

    For any shorter adults who wear children’s XL and XXL Patagonia, any fit tips to recommend? I’m trying to avoid mail-order roulette (or as least know what to try on in a store) for a puffy coat with no hood. Current puffy coat doesn’t work well for me b/c it is too long/too narrow to fit a short pear woman (the alternative is so large that I worry it would be too loose to be warm). Hoods seem to either cover my face or not stay up, so I think I prefer a higher collar on my neck and then just to use a hat that fits that also lets me see (key when walking the dog in a city where I need to see cars coming when I cross streets.

    • anon

      Sometimes on the kids’ sizes, the arms are too short for me. I’m only 5’2. Try both boys and girls. Generally I need a smaller size in the boys than girls depending on the item.

    • Hollis

      My daughter has a patagonia nano-puff jacket in youth XL (without the hood) and she loves it. She is 5’3″ and very slender up top (32A), so if you are more chesty, I think you’ll want a youth XXL or women’s XS. Also, the nanopuff is extremely light, which works for our climate where it rarely snows. If you are looking for real warmth, you may want a jacket that’s puffier and patagonia has several puffier versions.

    • Woof

      I suggest skipping Patagonia–their clothing is cut for slender young women. I am 5’3″ and weigh 135, and I cannot wear their clothes. Patagonia does not carry petites. I suggest Eddie Bauer, quality is excellent, lots of petite items, and really well cut for an active life. Eddie Bauer is not as cool and hip and current as Patagonia, but, fit matters, so just give EB a try.

    • anon

      FWIW, although I can fit in the kids sizes, both my nano puff and my down sweater hoody are a womens small. I preferred the fit on them. I live in a very cold place and I wore that down sweater hoody almost every day this winter. The hood on it is great. However, they also make a hoodless version. For reference, 5’2, 120 pounds, large chest.

  9. Sandra

    Any suggestions for career coaches in NYC? I feel like I could just use the opportunity to talk to someone in detail about career issues and figure out what I want next. Especially in data science or nonprofit fields

    • Hollis

      I’m not in your field, but when I was similarly at a crossroads, I found it extremely helpful to schedule networking coffees/lunches (maybe in the current day, zoom meetings) with mentors/people who work in your field. I basically reached out to everyone who I had some loose connection with (e.g., alumni of my college) and mentioned our connection, that I’m looking for some career advice, and was wondering if they had 20 minutes to chat. People love mentoring (esp. over a free cup of coffee) and I liked being able to ask people what they like and don’t like about their job/industry/company, etc. It was a great path to finding a new position also because people kept me in mind and forwarded me job postings that were not publicly posted. Good luck!

  10. Work shoes

    Are pointy toe, block heeled low pumps currently in style? I bought a pair of black suede Aquatalia pumps during the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale and I like them, but I haven’t been into the office regularly in ages and I’m starting a new “big” job in September so would love a gut check on whether these are cute and current. Link to follow.

  11. Anon

    I would like to get a pair of everyday earrings that I can leave in overnight since I often forget to put in earrings before leaving for the office. I seem to recall someone mentioning an earring backing that was more comfortable than posts, which hurt me when sleeping. What is that called or what terms should I be searching for?

  12. Anon

    Stopped into an EVEREVE store on the South Shore of MA yesterday, and was so pleased with their selection. I like Madewell shoes/bags/jeans/jewelry, but find that the rest of their clothing often reads too young on me (I’m 39.) Anyway, just recommending them if you’re like me and finding that old standbys like LOFT feel increasingly cheap/unappealing, and like Athleta/Madewell/Nordstrom (which, fwiw, I haven’t had any luck at Nordstrom’s the last few times I went in-person.)

    • Anonymous

      I love Evereve. It started out as a store called “Hot Mama” that targeted 30-something new moms who didn’t want to look frumpy, and now focuses on the “40-something but not ready to give up and shop at Chico’s” demographic.

      • Anonymous

        This is good to know. I found their original name and marketing so off putting that I haven’t bothered to try them, but it sounds like they’re worth checking out.

    • Anonymous

      Twin Cities resident here – where the store started. They are so good at making suggestions for outfits and coordinates – strongly recommend

      • Anon

        Yes, Hingham!! Love the Derby Street Shoppes. I hadn’t gone in, because thought it was some swimsuit store, but then saw an ad with the black & tan Michael Stars tank top and was so glad I stopped in. Definitely going to start checking it out regularly. My peers all like Boden, but the prints/colors aren’t a fit for me. They also have a clothing subscription box, it looks like.

    • Anonymous

      Evereve is great and they have really good service usually – will suggest things that I would never pick. If you see things that you like buy – they will disappear quickly! They have some of their own branded stuff now too.

  13. Anononon

    Looking to crowdsource info on what Biglaw partners use their secretaries/assistants for. I transitioned firms within the past year and left an amazing secretary (couldn’t take her with me, unfortunately) who basically ran my life. At my old firm, I didn’t do a drop of admin work and she frankly did a lot of work that was beyond the scope of what any secretaries did, so I know I was spoiled. At the new firm there is a pool system. I work with a group of four secretaries who are all incompetent. Conflict checks get submitted with misspelled names or parties in the wrong configuration even when I have sent them an email with exact spellings and notes on who is the client, who is adverse, etc. Documents that are supposed to be proofed are not. Hand mark-ups do not get input properly. On and on.

    I was supposed to get switched to another pool, but for *reasons* that is now not happening and we are trying to hire me someone new instead. In the meantime, I’m going to do a reset meeting with the current group to try to get on the same page about what they can and should be helping me with. So I am trying to sort out what is normal usage these days and what is something that my old secretary was doing even though it was above and beyond. What do you all use your secretaries for help with? I am inclined to just have them do conflict checks and engagement letters and do everything else myself, but that’s really not a good long term solution given how much of my time it takes away from actual work.

    • Anon

      Sympathies. I was at a V15 or so firm in DC and my assistant was beyond horrible (but a lovely person). My current one is amazing (big SEUS city). The virtual / remote assistant at my firm is consistently strong — do you have anything g like that?

      My current assistant opens matters and makes document sets of routine documents and keeps / collated all sig pages and final documents. Also makes sig page packets. Keeps sets of scanned docs and knows how to burn a set to CD or make a link for downloading.

    • Cat

      Combo of my old life and in house life…
      -Proofreading bills (combination of checking for compliance with client requirements, and doing a pass to identify things that are on the wrong matter)
      -Conflict checks (accurately the first time)
      -Calendar management (finding an acceptable time for large calls; 1-on-1 calls it’s easier to just do yourself IMHO)
      -Running redlines
      -Entering time if I had done it on a notepad
      -Setting up conference rooms, ordering catering, etc
      -If conference room is going to be in a video meeting, going there ahead of time to make sure the room is dialed in correctly
      -Organizing paper files (this is growing less and less important in a hybrid work world but I do still use paper for some things!)
      -Handling T&E type things like travel arrangements (with atty approval over final choices of course, but doing things like telling the travel agency to send only oneworld flights), business meal reservations, etc.

      • Anononon

        Thank you! This is helpful. Calendar management is one of the ones I miss the most – my old secretary would not only handle all scheduling, but would send me an email in the morning with all my meetings for the day listed and attaching all the documents or other info she thought I might need for those meetings. Alas, the old days!

  14. anon

    There is something seriously off about my MIL that I have a hard time putting into words, hoping to crowd source because once I can describe the thing I can handle it better. Not sure if it’s narcissism or something else, she is very intense and unpleasant to interact with, but not exactly mean. Her interactions with DH are very odd to me, their conversations are short, superficial, and don’t go beyond “how are you?” “good, how are you”. At the same time, she has very strong opinions about everything and forcefully monologues about them until he literally hangs up on her. In person she has this very warm and loving persona but it’s like shallow and artificial, if that makes sense. Like talking to her adult son in baby talk and making a big show of kissing him on the cheek. Our conversations are 100% about her job and work drama, which basically all have the theme of “I am so important and everyone around me is an idiot”. It’s completely one-sided and I just politely nod and offer an occasional “that’s nice”. She’s just very…intense. Always feuding with some family member, not on speaking terms over some vague perceived insult that she refuses to discuss in detail. Didn’t speak to her own sister for over 10 years over a completely misunderstood comment. Also lies a lot, more like exaggerations that often have a kernal of truth but her version of it is dramatic and often doesn’t make any sense- for exampe that the hospital she works at required employees to get covid vaccines at work, forbid employees from getting them elsewhere, and that she wasn’t “on the schedule” for her first shot until August 2021. I’m in no special categories and got mine in March 2021, as did most people I know. Maybe I am just venting but our first child is due in a few weeks, she lives 10 min away, and I just know we are going to have issues but having a trouble anticipating what those issues will be….

    • pugsnbourbon

      Yeah she sounds like a narcissist. Has she always been like this or have things gotten dramatically worse recently?

    • Anonymous

      The issue will be that it’s all about HER. The baby is HER grandchild, looks just like her, loves grandma best, in her head only likes it when grandma holds, feeds, or cuddles the baby. But fear not people like that lose interest once babies are past the potted plant stage. Once their off and running and won’t sweetly sit on grandma’s lap or are making messes or are prattling on about preschool and no one is giving grandma a chance to talk about HER, they lose interest. I know it isn’t right to say it as I know not every one is like this, but I assume she’s a boomer? That generation has a me me me vibe like I’ve never seen in anyone else and somehow THEY are always the aggrieved party in EVERYTHING.

      • Woof

        As a boomer, I take offense! Please don’t generalize like this–I, and many of my friends, are so generous and “other oriented.”

        • Aunt Jamesina

          Yeah, I know people from every generation who fit this profile. This is really unfair (and I’m a millennial).

      • Anonymous

        OP, you’ve just described my grandmother and this comment is spot on. She died when I was 22 and I have to say that while in retrospect I totally get why my mom couldn’t deal with her and literally ran away, but as a child I found her lovely. I remember her with nothing but fondness. My mother… does not.

    • anonchicago

      Sounds a lot like my mom and stepmom, and it took meeting my DH and him saying WTF to realize that it’s narcissism. Unfortunately, my experience has been it gets worse with age, likely a combination of becoming more self-centered, one’s social circle tightening, and a little bit of depression about how life has turned out.

      I don’t have an answer for you, and as another pregnant woman with the first grandchild on the way, I feel you.

    • Anon

      Your MIL is my FIL! My FIL is very intense, lots of monologues, lots of perceived slights, zero self-awareness, lots of lying/exaggerating/revisionist history, etc. etc. Plus, my FIL lives 15 minutes away and we have kids. In terms of naming it, I think it’s either narcissism, delusions of grandeur (my FIL thinks he’s smarter than everyone else), just plain insecurity/chip on the shoulder, he’s always looking for drama, or he may just be self-centered. As for how to deal, it sounds like you’ve dealt with her for awhile and you’ve managed to be just fine. Once my kids came along, it was a lot of focus on the child’s looks and how similar the kid is to him, etc. BUT, once my kids were older, they could see through all of that, even when they were in elementary school. They could see the monologues, no interest in asking the kids about anything about their lives, and how my FIL brags about being better at everything than us, and they just kind of ignore it now, too. I think that unless it’s actually harmful, it’s good for kids to see how people are different and how we can choose to be kind to the grandparents and treat them with respect even when we don’t understand them and would never be friends with them in real life.

    • Anon

      Until you got to the sister part, I thought my husband was leading a double life. No advice but my sympathies. We just both play bingo and treat her as a duty.

    • Anon

      Omg is your mother in law my sister? My sister talks that way about her job. In fact she has a tik tok where she talks about how incompetent everyone at her job is except for her, and shares daily anecdotes about how she had to once again come in and save the day. (In redd1t lingo, “and then everyone clapped”) I will not be surprised when she gets fired.

      Just in case it is my sister, all of this bravado is to cover deep, deep feelings of inadequacy coupled with a crippling need for attention and affirmation.

    • Mm

      My MIL is very similar. I believe it is narcissism. For us, post-baby she was extremely unhelpful (like, wouldn’t even hold the baby for more than a few seconds) and yet aggrieved that we did not have her babysit or get together more than once a week. In the thick of covid, she would bring ridiculous $100 dresses and lament that she couldn’t have parties to introduce the infant to her friends. We are on very limited speaking terms now, DH handles all communications and planning, and I’m fine that way.

    • Jules

      There is a subreddit called something like raised by a narcissist that might be helpful in how to deal with the MIL. Good luck!

  15. Anonymous

    What would be your all in comp expectation working for a solo law practice in NYC if you go in with 16 years experience? Currently only the founder works there and I don’t think he’s ever had employees before. He exclusively does plaintiffs side employment work like wage hour, discrimination cases and the like. I know through the grapevine he’s looking to bring someone on but I’d like some wide range of comp in mind going in before my meeting with him next week. He has said he’d bring someone in as counsel and that person doesn’t necessarily need to generate business. I’m 16 years out of school, started in biglaw for 4 years and then the next 12 at a non profit doing employment. TBH IDK if I can generate business so I wouldn’t want to go in on those promises or having too much of my comp dependent on that. I know this job comes with no health insurance or retirement, so I’d at least like to be ok on salary. What would you think?

    • Hollis

      This is really hard because this can be a huge range. Not sure if he’ll offer you a percentage of comp, in which case I would expect you to get around 30% to 35% of what you bill, or a salary (I have no idea what employees of small firms get paid in NYC). Why not ask him what he has in mind? And also, keep in mind what you would expect to get paid as a future partner there (if that’s what you’re looking for) and whether your comp will increase dramatically when you go from being an employee to partner. Also, can you get health insurance from a spouse? If not, why would you take this job when you can easily get a job as employment counsel for any number of places that will pay for your health insurance?!?

    • anon

      Small law firm salaries are usually roughly 1/3 of your _collected_ billables, but if you take employee-side contingency work, not sure if this would work. If you billed, say 1600 a year at X rate, and all of it was collected (it will not be–employee side is chunky), then that’d be a reasonable ask. Also…you didn’t ask this, but I would be wary of working with or for someone who is not used to working with anyone else–usually that means my way or the high way, organizational nightmares, no flexibility to consider you a team member instead of a mere employee. This whole situation screams red flags to me, unless you know the guy and he’s known as pleasant and awesome.

  16. Anonymous

    Has anyone done Optavia? Is it different than Jenny Craig? Can you do a DIY version?

    • Anon

      I have not done Optavia and I wouldn’t. It’s basically a starvation diet run by an MLM where most of what you eat consists of prepackaged processed snacks. It’s such a drastic calorie deficit that you are advised to avoid most exercise, because your body literally isn’t taking in enough to fuel it.

    • Anon

      My brother did Optavia and lost 30lbs or so. It works okay for him bc he likes routine and doesn’t like to try new foods. Even then, his compliance waned over time bc the food is not appetizing. I really don’t recommend any crash diets like this because the moment you get off it and start living your life normally, the weight will all come back (likely with more and a negativity impacted metabolism).

  17. Bette

    A fun Friday topic: I recently won a top award at work for hitting a very significant professional milestone. It comes with a nice cash prize; I’ll throw most of it into savings/investments but woukd like to use a little to treat myself. Budget is up to $500. What would you do?

    Bonus question: Also considering getting my spouse a gift too, as they are an incredibly supportive partner and co-parent and our equity at home is part of what helps me succeed at work. We already went out for a splurgey celebration dinner together but I’d like to acknowledge their contribution in a more tangible way.

    • Anon

      I would buy a vitamix blender with all the accessories we want, because that’s a splurgy item we have been jointly eyeing for a bit. As foodies who cook a lot at home we would get to enjoy it daily, while jewelry, leather goods, etc, just are not as appealing.

      • Hootster

        I bought a refurbished vitamix in grad school 10 years ago, and it’s still the best money I’ve spent. If you can make it work, do it sooner rather than later. The cost per use is super low.

    • anonshmanon

      When it was me, I splurged on a dress for the award ceremony. Congratulations!

    • Senior Attorney

      Instagram has been bombarding me with jewelry from Mabel Chong lately and I would splurge on a piece from there. For Hubby, maybe a watch? Piece of art for his office?

    • Anonymous

      Does anywhere in your house need art? I’d get a piece. That way, you’ll see it and think of your win often :)

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