Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Kesteven Cashmere Sweater

495 Comments

1. I love this! (And I’m also amused that before I finished reading the caption I thought “ooh, I bet I could find something like this at Boden!”)

   1. Me too, Ribena! I love the sun motife on the Boden Sweater, and wonder if it would be appropriate for Boden to send a gift card to Jill Biden to wear this sweater. Is it lawful to make a gift like this to her now that she is going to be the first lady? After all, the tag line they can use in their adverstising would be “Biden wears Boden” or “Boden for Biden”. I am beginning to think that this may not be something ideal in this charged political climate, but then again, it could be OK. What does the hive think?

      Also, I saw Arnold Schwartzeneeger on TV yesterday. I agree with him. He used to be so young and virile, and now, not so much. The pandemic affects all of us.

   2. Definitely Boden, and I love it too!

   3. Yep, my immediate reaction was “Boden! Love it!”

      Amusingly, autocorrect is convinced it’s Biden.

2. I think the answer is do nothing-they’re adults, but I wanted to run a situation by you all.
   My aunt (mother’s sister) is a master manipulator, narcissist, and lives incredibly out of her means. Most of our family has pretty much cut her out. We are polite at large family gatherings (back when those existed) and generally keep in touch during holidays and birthdays but otherwise ignore her. Well everyone except my mother and my brother who is my only sibling.
   I have spoken with my mom multiple times about things that have happened specifically to me and that I no longer have any sympathy or contact with her sister. She always makes excuses for her and brushes it off. My mom has also been “loaning” her money since we were children and continues to enable her irresponsible financial behavior. I got word recently that my aunt has also called my brother begging for money, which he gave her. I know he’s an adult and can do what he pleases with his money, but I am so mad that they both keep enabling her, especially my brother. He has 2 young kids, another one on the way, and is closing on a house this month. He really shouldn’t be wasting his money on her.
   Anyhow, this is partially vent and partially should I get involved? My SIL is the one who told me he loaned my aunt money, not my brother. My intuition is to tell my mom and my brother to stop giving her money and specifically mention this recent event that I heard about secondhand. I think that if I told my mom that her sister was taking money from her kids, and consequently grandkids, that it might be enough to send her over the edge and stick up for herself and my brother. I’m just frustrated that they don’t see what everyone else in the family has known for a long time. I feel pretty protective of my brother especially.

   1. You and your children are not entitled to your mother’s assets. She can waste them however she pleases as long as she doesn’t expect you to provide for her when they run out.

      1. +1 and saying your brother’s kids will do without is speculative and not your business anyway

      2. I’m not OP but I had a somewhat similar situation with my own mom. One of my sisters was constantly sponging off her, and then her teenage/grown children did.

         Example, my mom had the oldest most basic cell phone you could imagine, but then my niece (a young adult who didn’t like how her boss in the only job she ever had “bossed her around” so she quit) “needed” the newest iPhone and got my mom to pay for it. Then she get her to pay her $400 overdue cable bill, with all the extras, while my mom didn’t even have cable.

         My mom didn’t have much money – just social security and a very small 401k started late in her working life – and my other sibling and I knew it wouldn’t be long before we’d have to split her bills between us and pay them ourselves. OF COURSE our sister would not be ponying up anything so we’d be splitting it two ways.

         So it wasn’t about inheritance. We expected to inherit nothing, and we wanted her to enjoy the meager funds she had saved for herself. But every time she got the squeeze from my sister or my nieces/nephews, my sibling and I knew the two of us would end up paying for it in the long run.

         I can’t say we solved the problem or that we stopped the sponging completely, but we eventually sat down with her and showed her exactly how much she had left in savings and how her regularly monthly bills would continue to eat into that, and now many months it was likely to last. Then we showed her the charges on her debit card from her granddaughter (yes, she had given her granddaughter a copy of her debit card for “emergencies”) and how they were more than the sum of my mom’s personal monthly bills many months. It was a very uncomfortable conversation for all involved but it needed to happen.

   2. Def do nothing. This is none of your business. You aren’t supporting your mom and brother, it sounds like they can afford to do this and how they choose to spend their money is simply not your concern (not like your brother isn’t closing on a house because he decided to give your aunt money or you have to support your mom as a result of what she’s doing).

   3. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Your mom and brother are adults and can do what they want.

   4. How did your SIL feel about it? In telling you, was she asking for your intervention?

      1. She was really mad. Not only because my brother gave my aunt money, but because he didn’t tell her and then was super cagey about how much he gave her. They keep a large portion of their finances separate, which feels weird to me since DH and I don’t, but I know some couples do.
         SIL did not explicitly ask me to intervene, but we had a very long text convo about it. They are trying to come up with money for house down payment, so it’s not like they are super flush with cash right now.
         And to an earlier point, I realize I’m not entitled to anything from my parents and I don’t expect money from them now or ever. I’ve written my mom off in this situation long ago, but she is very protective of her grandkids. I don’t think she would want her grandkids potentially doing without because my brother wasted money on my aunt.
         I know it’s not my business. It just makes me steaming mad that they don’t see what’s going on here.

         1. It’s still not your business. Your SIL needs to handle her own marriage.

         2. Yeah, you don’t get to tell others how to spend their money, even if they have kids. Butt out, OP.

         3. Despite your protestations, if you are worried about “her grandkids potentially doing without,” you are trying to lay claim to your mother’s money.

            1. I actually read this being about the brother’s finances being negatively impacted, more so than the mom’s.

            2. I’m worried her grandkids are doing without because their parent (my brother) gives away his money, not because my parents aren’t going to leave them something.
               My parents are solidly lower middle class. We had a decent enough upbringing, but there were times we couldn’t go on field trips in school because my parents didn’t want to pay the $20 for it. In our adult years, my parents have asked for money from my brother and me. I’m ok loaning them money to a certain extent. Our finances during childhood is part of the reason I’m so protective of what my brother and I have worked so hard to achieve.
               I am not sure what my parents aging financial plan is. Probably should ask. They both still work, and I know have some sort of 401k, IRA, etc set up.
               I’ve given up on telling my mom not to give my aunt money. She’s been doing it forever. I just really don’t want my brother to fall into the same cycle, but you all are right that it’s not my business.
               I’ll just file it as another reason why I should not to trust my aunt.

            3. That’s not it– she’s trying to use her brother’s kids as an excuse to get involved and for us to validate that choice.

            4. Wow OP, you can’t tell your brother how to spend his money just because he has kids. Stop. Please see a therapist to work on your boundary issues.

            5. I think we all can acknowledge that OP should not intervene without jumping on her for being upset. If ANY of us had this dynamic in our families, we would be upset. Give me a break. Let’s not pretend we’re all the most serene, mature people to ever walk the planet.

            6. “Let’s not pretend we’re all the most serene, mature people to ever walk the planet.”

               Yes, definitely let’s not, as that assertion could be conclusively disproven just by the responses on this thread alone. Never mind any other discussions happening today, or yesterday, or the day before that…

         4. I get that you’re frustrated and angry. I would be too if I saw family members making bad choices like this. I feel like you SIL might be reaching out in the hopes that you will speak to you brother, but that’s not a good idea. Everyone involved is adults and you stating your opinion is not going to change their minds. SIL definitely needs to address this with your brother, but that’s on her to have that conversation.

            1. To Anon at 9:55, that’s true and that’s fair. It just gets frustrating when folks come here for “advice” but then push and push if the hive gives advice they don’t like. It’s like, why did you even ask us then?

         5. Does your mother know that your aunt is pressuring your brother for money? This might be the straw that breaks her back; sometimes it’s easier to see unacceptable patterns when we’re not directly involved. I wouldn’t tell your mother, but you might hint about it to your SIL…

      2. I am not here with advice, nor to pile on. I have a totally different family situation that has nothing to do with money…but I’m in the same position of knowing it’s not my business and yet, I find it horrible to stand by and watch people make bad choices over and over again. Solidarity.

         1. I always feel like, realistically, if they get into very serious trouble, I will have to help them out. I don’t have it in me to cut them off 100%, and I live in a country where the general social safety nets are really not adequate. So I guess that really is my failure to set a boundary, but I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if their bad choices and character flaws led to truly worst case scenario outcomes either. (I have set a LOT of boundaries including leaving people without a place to live, and I have mixed feelings about whether that was truly the right thing to do. It certainly helped me preserve my own class status, which maybe is all my therapist wanted to achieve, who knows.)

         2. Solidarity from me as well. It’s really hard to see loved ones make bad decisions. I can’t change their minds, but I will on rare occasion say something when I think the risk is very large and they might take my idea for harm reduction. Otherwise, it’s better not to talk about it and certainly not to try to persuade my family to make the choices I would make.

            If you’re close to your brother, I think you get one chance to talk to him about this kind of thing, though be prepared for it to affect your relationship. You could warn him that making these kinds of decisions without his wife’s agreement could tank his marriage, you’re not going to be there for him financially, and reminding him that he has no obligation to support aunt’s endless needs. Then you need to hold your tongue for years.

   5. If that’s how they want to waste their money, who is to say that they shouldn’t? I doubt at this point that they think they’re getting it back.

   6. Everyone here is an adult. Not your business.

   7. It’s ok to be mad. I would be. But unfortunately, you shouldn’t say anything as everybody is a mentally competent adult making their own decisions. I’m petty af and wouldn’t be polite to my aunt at future functions though. lol. I’d probably avoid talking to her and if she broached me I would say – I am avoiding you because I don’t want you to hit me up for money like you do to everyone else! Is this mature and appropriate? No. No, it is not.

      1. Yup, this is me too!

   8. I agree with the others – as hard as it is, it is not your problem. We have a similar dynamic in my family but with different people involved and I just have to stay out of it since we are all adults. I too don’t understand giving money away like that especially when the person giving the money has other responsibilities.

   9. Does your mom have sufficient assets to cover her aging/future health care needs even with supporting aunt? If yes, do nothing. If no, I’d have a convo with that as the primary theme, concern that she’s giving away what he practically speaking needs and stating you (and evidently brother) won’t be able to support her either. I’d hesitate to bring up you and your children’s inheritance being diluted – just doesn’t sit right with me.

      1. This exactly.

         If your parents may not be able to support themselves for their entire retirement AND you may be helping out, you can have a conversation with them about how they are spending money now. It doesn’t mean they have to live on beans and rice now; it just means that if they end up running out, you aren’t mad with how they spent their limited funds in the present. It can be perfectly valid to say that you want them, for example, to spring for a trip to Europe for their 40th anniversary, even if it means they won’t have money at age 85. “If you run out of money and I end up helping you out, I’m okay with that because I want you to have this experience.”

         Flip side is that you aren’t okay supporting your aunt, and funneling it through your mother doesn’t change the fact that you’re supporting her if your parents run out of money.

      2. +2. If her mom is at risk of running out of money, and the underlying social construct is that she would end up being her security blanket, this could be OP’s problem, despite all of the insistence above that these are adults and she should stay out.
         OP does not indicate that this is potentially the case though. So really that’s the first conversation she needs to have with her if she really doesn’t know and chooses to go down this path.

   10. I would focus on your relationship with your SIL. Let her know that you agree with her assessment that it was inappropriate. She’s pregnant with two small kids and a DH who isn’t honest about their finances. Let her lead on how she wants you to help. Ask her if she wants you to speak to DH.

       When dealing with your mom or brother, keep it factual. Calling Aunt manipulative will just make them defensive. Make it about the numbers. When was it lent, how much was lent, how much was repaid etc. Ask how much they have lent this time and in total, ask when it will be repaid, ask what she needed it for/used it on. Ask them what the repayment plan/schedule is etc.

       1. I think it is ok to be a sounding board to the SIL but I would not offer to have the talk with the brother. That is getting too involved. It is their family’s money, not OP’s. Sorry OP that this is going on but keep your head up and don’t get involved.

   11. Nah. Your SIL needs to have a good money talk with your brother, but that is absolutely not your domain.

   12. You’re allowed to decide if you give your aunt money or if you talk to your aunt and to define the scope of your relationship with your aunt. You are not allowed to do that for your mother or brother. Full stop. Your post makes me question who the narcissist really is.

       1. Dude what. She can be frustrated by family dynamics without being a narcissist.
          OP also acknowledged that she knows she shouldn’t intervene.

       2. Wow, this is so rude and unnecessary.

       3. Nope. Nope. Nope. So ridiculous.

       4. A little hyperbolic, but I agree with the sentiment. Let it go, OP. This is hard but there’s nothing you can do except draw hard boundaries for yourself.

       5. Anyone else notice how the phrase “full stop” is always used by someone trying to manipulate the conversation to shut down any opposing discussion? It’s such a rude verbal device that is as irritating to me as hearing someone with vocal fry or the guys who says “like” every other word.

          I agree with the poster’s sentiment though. We don’t get to control the relationships that others’ have, even when can see that the relationships aren’t good for them.

          1. Yep. And the only time anyone uses “full stop” in my experience is on this board…

             1. And to echo the above though, and on a similar note, my mother does the same thing OP does here ALL THE TIME. She shops around for advice constantly, pushes back against any she doesn’t like, and then does what she wants anyways. Maddening for us kids who wonder why she bothered to call us for advice in the first place…

             2. Your mom is not calling for advice. She’s calling for validation (usually to do something she knows isn’t right, but is the easier course of action). It’s likely the same for the OP (and a lot of OPs here, and elsewhere).

             3. OMG, Anon at 2:09–you’re exactly right! Thank you for this perspective. That helps me. And from now on, guess my Mom and you folks on this board are going to get called out when asking for validation rather than advice. Because frankly, sometimes we just need to be grownups, make a decision, and then take the responsibility for/consequences of that decision. I do not have time or the patience any longer to put up with people asking me to validate their bad choices.

   13. Don’t try to fix this! You are acting like only the children matter but your aunt is family as well, and if your mom and her brother want to help her that’s their prerogative.

   14. People are super down on the idea of talking to your brother, but this is totally something I would bring up to my sister in a neutral way (do you want to talk about it)? She sometimes needs helps with scripts for rough situations and we have that relationship. What I wouldn’t do is go through my mom to change my sister’s behavior — that feels manipulative.

   15. I would 100% talk to my sibling over and over if I felt they were being subject to fraudulent or manipulative behavior by others including family members. I would not care that it is neither my business nor money.

       1. Right? I don’t know what ppl talk to their siblings about if it isn’t stuff like this. Like families are supposed to look out for each other. Make sure SIL is cool with it first and sounds like she has a lot going on right now.

          1. I agree. I was just thinking – if my BIL came to me with concerns that my sister was giving money to one of my aunts, that means it’s an issue. BIL wouldn’t come to me unless he was at his wit’s end and needed my help talking to my sister. I would definitely talk to her; she’s my sister and I love her. Maybe my family is different? I know my sister would do the same for me if DH went to her; and I know that my sister and I would both confront our parents if necessary.

   16. None of your business. Leave it be.

   17. Just commiseration, and I understand where you are coming from. I expressed concern about my parents’ finances for many years. Going back to when I was a teenager. I suggested a household budget. They always laughed in my face. My mom, in particular, would jokingly tell people about her ridiculous daughter who thought that she would have to support her parents one day.

       My parents have now run out of money and live in a home that I had to buy them. They wiped out their savings paying off their enormous credit card bills. They are able to pay for most incidentals with their pension money. My mom has ALZ and can’t walk, dress, feed, or toilet herself. It is all on me – the pressure to provide plus the pressure to care. Between my highly demanding job and caregiving, I have no life of my own. In the pandemic, I can’t even pay to outsource labor. Parents are both immune compromised so it is too dangerous.

       People who say “not your problem” are either truly heartless (would allow their parents to live on the street or with abysmal care) or naive. It always becomes the problem of the most functional person.

       I don’t really have any advice, except maybe to enjoy life while you can before you are on the hook for your family’s maintenance.

       1. Why isn’t your Mother in a nursing home? I mean this in a tough love way…. If your mother has the high level of needs you say and you can’t outsource labor then she isn’t getting the care she needs. You think you have to do it all, but you don’t and you can’t and your shouldn’t… because it also isn’t the best for her. And as you know, it is not appropriate for you.

          Are you going to a caregiver support group? You can attend virtually. The Alzheimer’s association website will lead you to one in your area or one you can attend virtually.

          I also strongly suggest seeing a therapist. I think you know there are some underlying issues here (guilt? why?) and maybe sorting through them will help.

          I also am a caregiver for my parents – both with severe medical problems who require around the clock care. And once they cannot feed/toilet themselves – that is when a nursing home is appropriate, especially if they have severe dementia and do not even know where they are. It is the best for them, you know?

   18. Wow, I wildly disagree with most responses here. This depends on the strength of your relationship with brother and mother but if it were me I’d send one joint email or text to mom and bro stating your concerns and the implications and then stating you won’t mention it again but offer to be of help in them setting boundaries with this woman. Then I’d leave it alone. But this idea that somehow you have no skin in this fight is wild.

3. I’m in my early thirties and feeling overwhelmed by skincare. I use a moisturizer with hylauronic acid and a basic eye cream (both Farmacy), but in the last year I am seeing a lot of eye puffiness and a line a few centimeters from my eye that basically outlines the bags. I’m also seeing some fine forehead wrinkles. I am very happy with my skin otherwise.
   Can anyone recommend a product or products for this? I tried googling, but I don’t even know where to begin and I don’t plan to see my dermatologist again until post COVID.

   1. I would add a retinol at night! I only pay like $10 for the tretinoin prescribed by my PCP but if you don’t comfortable visiting a doctor right now, I’ve heard good things about Drunk Elephant’s retinol.

   2. Think about adding a Jade Roller into your skincare routine. I keep mine in the fridge and roll it on my face after I apply my morning serum of choice. It feels fantastic and it helps decrease any puffiness.

      I use the Herbivore botanicals jade facial roller. It’s available at Nordstrom for $30.

   3. I would start adding retinol at night. I started by buying the ROC brand from the drugstore.

   4. Could you do a telehealth visit with the dermatologist? Dermatology is an especially good candidate for telehealth because they can actually see what’s wrong (as opposed to other specialties that need to use a lot more instruments or run tests).

      1. Based on the comments, if all I really need is a retinol I think by the time I pay for the appointment which will cost me over $100, it would have been cheaper for me to buy one over the counter.

         1. You may be a good candidate for Curology or a similar online subscription service.

   5. I did a telehealth appointment with a dermatologist — no in-person appointment required! My dermatologist said that really it’s three things (I’m 38): sunscreen + vitamin C + retinol. She ended up calling a prescription for a retinol into my local pharmacy.

      1. What vitamin C product did she recommend? Any advice about the stability of vitamin C products?

         1. She didn’t recommend a particular one, but approved of the Skinceuticals Vitamin C that I’m using (which I use based on the insta posts of two dermatologists that I follow, so take what you will of it).

   6. Differin is a retinoid acne cream but is actually stronger than almost every over the counter retinol, and is certainly much cheaper. I started using that on my fine lines about 6 months ago – under recommendation of my dermatologist (who said the turnover for anti-acne and cell turnover for anti-aging are essentially the same process) and I can tell a major difference.

   7. First, daily sunscreen, rain or shine. As they say, don’t even bother with good skincare if you’re not going to protect your skin with sunscreen. SPF 30 or higher. La Roche Posay makes some good ones, or at Sephora/Ulta or wherever you get your Farmacy they can also make recommendations. I’ve heard good things about Drunk Elephant’s, and I think they sell Coola and Supergoop, which are great.

      Second, agree with others about the retinoids. I also use prescription and I recommend you go that route – I have Curology which is $40 every two months. The problem with over the counter retinol is that it takes up to 6 months to produce a diluted retinoid effect similar to what real tretinoin will produce day one. Another option is Differin/adapalene, which is now available over the counter in the US. Many people tolerate it better than tretinoin.

   8. I just want to say, I find it a little frustrating that so many people recommend a retinol as the most important skincare thing to every woman in her 30’s. This is a prime age for many professional women to be having children, and you absolutely cannot use a retinol while you are TTC or pregnant. I get that many women aren’t in that exact stage when they ask this question (possibly including you, OP), and then retinol is great! But it seems to be this blanket statement without addressing this really important piece. Given how long it takes to ramp up to using a retinol successfully, and for your skin to get past the peeling/red phase, I think it’s really not worth it if you are going to TTC in the next 18 months.
      ~signed, someone who spent a lot of 2019 trying to slowly ramp up retinols and then was told that I needed to stop at least a few months before starting to try

      1. Retinoids are recommended a lot because they are the only thing actually proven to work. There’s a lot of science behind this, as opposed to merely marketing. Even vitamin C as a skincare product doesn’t have a lot of true dermatological research behind it. Retinoids and sunscreen really are your best bet.

4. For those of my fellow ‘rettes who are white Christians, I wonder what you make of the fact that evangelical Christian culture has become overlapping and interwoven with Trumpists, white nationalists, and conspiracy theorists. See the NYT article “How White Evangelical Christians Fused With Trump Extremism” especially explaining how Jesus was a prominent theme last week at the riots. How have you responded/will you respond in your own Christian communities?

   1. My church has been active in fighting against this since long before Trump and will continue long after.

      1. Same here.

      2. Yup. I’m Episcopalian. It’s hardly the same religion as evangelicals (in theology, in practice and in political / social beliefs and action)

   2. I’m not sure that there are any Evangelicals here, to be honest. It’s sort of its own separate culture.

      1. +1

         I grew up in/went to college within that community and remain FB friends with many evangelical Christians (admittedly FB is my only exposure to that crowd now). There was actually a prominent black population at my evangelical college but most have since either left the church or moved onto a more mainline denomination. I wonder whyyyy,

         The vast majority of evangelical Christians I know publicly support Trump. A few have stood up against the riots, but with the usual “our kingdom is is in heaven not of this earth blah blah blah”, not because they are against the rioters’ political beliefs. Others say the riots are bad but compare them to the BLM “rioting” last year.

         Out of a sample size of ~75, I have not seen anyone speak out against Trump. Most of them believe the mainstream media is fake news and seem to get their political beliefs and covid stats from random charts/memes that get passed around on FB.

         I attempted to engage with one person who posted a meme during the election about how the Wisconsin votes did not match up with the registered voters. I pointed out that the chart was using the registered voters from the last election, not the current, and that this was very easy to verify across multiple sources. He blew up at me, called me a c—, etc. Before the recent riots, he said all of us liberals had no idea what was coming to us.

         So yea, I just avoid FB now and do not engage. I only have an account now to keep in touch with older relatives abroad. Sorry if this offends anyone, but in my experience, anyone who has grown up with full internet access and chooses to stay in these extreme right wing evangelical denominations is either willfully ignorant or too unintelligent to meaningfully communicate with.

   3. There’s a white Christian epidemiologist on Facebook (/friendlyneighborepidemiologist) explaining pandemic and vaccine science to her audience there. She made a recent post on this topic, and I found it interesting to see the comments on that post voicing what it’s like to be a healthcare worker or scientist in evangelical churches right now. I don’t know if there are evangelicals here, but unless they’re on board, I think the answer is probably something like “be ostracized” or otherwise treated with suspicion for being a bad Christian.

      1. Hmmm. I guess it depends on how you define evangelical. I go to a non-denominational Bible church in a large city and consider it a duty to spread the gospel. Wouldn’t that make me evangelical? If so, I would be shocked if anyone in my church is anti-vaccine or masking; in fact, we’ve reopened but with super strict rules about masking, being escorted in and out of the service, etc. I’m sure if people were anti-maskers, they don’t go to our church anymore. They are also largely Republican, if I had to guess, and largely uncomfortable with DJT, although not entirely. I’m sure they are all upset about this recent thing, as we all are. My preacher has preached on racial unity for years and swapped pulpits with a black preacher from a black church.

         1. There is a difference between evangelical in the sense of spreading the gospel and the evangelical movement. The evangelical movement has co-opted Jesus as a figurehead for its mission to enrich its leaders and subjugate women and nonwhite people.

         2. This makes sense. I said “evangelical” but was still thinking of the white evangelical Christian culture OP mentioned. It sounds like your Bible church is less white and segregated than what I’m familiar with if it’s in a large city and has a good relationship with a black church.

         3. Yes, the definition of evangelical matters. There is a theological definition (which includes many believers across many denominations, churches, races, and countries) and a cultural/political definition which refers to a specific group of American White people with a particular political goals, who may not even be theologically evangelical at all. I vaguely remember a poll showing that about a third of “white evangelicals” considered Jesus a great teacher who was not divine. Meaning that they aren’t even religiously Christian! I know many in the first group who stopped using the term “evangelical” because of the second group.

         4. The language “this recent thing” used in this post is shocking to me, almost as shocking as the insurrection that is “this recent thing.”

            1. Then you really need to take a chill pill honestly.

   4. As a progressive Christian member of a mainline Protestant denomination, I would argue that the evangelical movement as a whole is not actually Christian.

      Trump’s embrace of the prosperity gospel and Gnosticism perfectly explains his world view and actions.

      1. This. I live in Canada but as an Anglican at a church with a married woman lead priest, and which allows gay marriage – all of which is supported by the congregation, I focus on lifting up my own congregation and community through prayer and volunteer work. I do not allow those American Evangelicals to define Christianity. Jesus would be aghast at what they purport to believe in his name and what they have wrought.

      2. “I would argue that the evangelical movement as a whole is not actually Christian.”

         I would argue that it’s not actually your job to define who is and is not a Christian. Last I checked, that’s God’s job and you need to concentrate on the logs in your own eyes.

         1. Interesting. I think I’ll continue looking out for false prophets and wolves dressed in sheep’s clothing, unless you think that’s also not my job to do?

      3. They’re a death cult as far as I can tell. I’ve gotten in too many debates lately with “vaccine hesitant” evangelicals who begin by saying “wasn’t this vaccine rushed to production?” and with “death comes for us all; I’m ready if it’s my time,” because they like the coronavirus more than they like masks and vaccines. “It only kills the sick and disabled, so it’s not really dangerous anyway.” I wish I could cut ties with more of these people.

   5. I mean…Christians have been racist for centuries. This shouldn’t be surprising. Trump just made it okay.

      1. I assume you mean white Christians.

      2. Yeah, William Wilberforce, that super-racist evangelical Christian who (checks notes) risked everything to end slavery.

         1. Or Martin Luther King, Jr.

   6. For anyone interested in these issues, I recommend reading White Too Long by Robert P. Jones.

      1. Also following Chrissy Stroop (C_Stroop) on twitter, who has been amplifying these issues for a while.

   7. My own Christian community is nothing like this, and I have deliberately chosen NOT to engage with those branches of Christianity — but that precedes Trump, because there are so many damaging, un-Christian things about that particular culture. I have a few fringe friends who run in Evangelical circles and we just … don’t talk politics at all, because it’s like talking to a brick wall. It’s very, very discouraging.

   8. They’ll just find a way to justify everything. It’s not as if violence, discrimination, and hatred are new to Christianity. I am an atheist and I reserve the right to criticize any religion I choose, but of course people get defensive rather than reflective if you highlight atrocities perpetuated by the church or by churchgoers. I am aware my post will seem harsh but I’m tired of moderating my own opinion to suit extremists and apologists.

      1. Oh and I’m ready for the “no true Scotsman” logical fallacy. Hear it all the time.

      2. Are you really suggesting that the posters disavowing evangelicals are apologists?

         1. “My church isn’t like that” isn’t disavowing. It’s ignoring. Again, the parallels to white racism strike me.

            1. To assert that Christ would not have countenanced the evangelicals is disavowal, not ignorance. Christians need to feel empowered to stand up and denounce those who inappropriately use Christ’s name to justify atrocities.

            2. I disagree. “WWJD” is a cop-out.

            3. 10:12 — Most of us have tried and have gotten absolutely nowhere with this crowd. As I said earlier, it’s like talking to a brick wall.

            4. To be fair, I think many of us who are mainline Protestant or Catholic probably don’t know evangelicals. I’m an Episcopalian in a liberal northeast city, the evangelicals being discussed here don’t exist where I am.

            5. These evangelicals are so far out of my experience in this country. I know only regular Christian denominations — Episcopalian, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.

   9. Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I really do want to know what you and your churches are doing specifically, like trading pulpits. In the public conversation I’ve seen a lot of eyerolling, dismissiveness, or refusing to engage, but not a lot of loud These People Are Not Christians. Genuinely curious.

      1. My church routinely trades pulpits, serves diverse communities, centers minority voices in church leadership, held a prayer vigil on election night, preached against trump explicitly throughout his term including this past Sunday, is a leader in our local fair housing movement, and a follower in our local Black Lives Matter movement (because it wouldn’t be appropriate to be the leading voice on that issue), houses immigrants recently released from detention, leads efforts to get our county to stop cooperating with ICE.

         So nope. Not perfect. Not even close. And I don’t think we can just say those people aren’t Christian. They are. And recognizing that Christianity has often been a force for evil is part of doing the work.

         1. Sorry, but they aren’t Christian. They are just calling themselves that, and real Christians need to stand up and point it out because they are causing real harm and giving the rest of us a bad name. There are other cults out there that masquerade as legitimate Christian denominations that also worship false prophets. We need to stop countenancing this nonsense.

            1. I disagree. I think claiming they aren’t Christian is a way to absolve Christianity of guilt it rightly bears. Sinning does not make you not a Christian.

            2. I think Christianity needs to own its heresies. It’s not any other religion’s fault that people believe this stuff.

            3. Isn’t this argument a waste of time? It reminds me a lot of when all kinds of people insist to be part of Real America.

            4. The argument of what/who is or is not Christian will not be resolved. However, for as long as there are people who claim their morals and sense of justice are based on a particular set of teachings, it’s reasonable for those people to debate how to properly follow those teachings.

      2. I am Catholic…but I also appreciate Beth Moore’s POV on Christians that politicize Christianity and worship Trump. Check her out on Twitter-you can see the backlash she gets from the Trump crowd – her messages prevail.

   10. I have been following an author who has been listening to the Sunday services in this community, easy because they are all online now. About half expressed concern about the riots and called for reflection or healing and about half did not. One prominent minister took the opportunity to preach against the news media. It’s just so far away from any gospel!

       1. Those churches shouldn’t get tax breaks, since they serve as a wing for the Republican party.

          1. Agreed. Ironically, the church in which I was married had its tax exemption threatened by Bush 43 back in the mid-oughts for preaching against the Iraq war.

   11. I grew up in a white evangelical “Christian” church with several thousand members. My experience is that the Trumpism is rooted in beliefs that gained popularity among White Evangelical Christians decades ago. The pastor who started leading that church in the mid-90s dismissed the value of education, relegated women to non-leadership roles of “service” that mirrored domestic work, and perpetuated racist beliefs. The identity of that church fused with the personality of its dynamic, fire-and-brimstone-type pastor, which was not the case before. It is not at all surprising to me that the people I grew up with in that church would be drawn to someone like Trump.

       Interestingly, I attended a girls’ camp associated with the Southern Baptist Convention for about 10 summers. The women who ran the camp had a lot of autonomy (I guess because the Southern Baptists ignored girls?), and most of the Christian teaching was pretty inclusive and empowering of young women. I am in touch with dozens of women who went to that camp around the same time I did. They are working in a variety of careers. Their politics appear to be mostly liberal, or at least anti-Trump. The Southern Baptists would be dismayed that these women were raised in their backyard.

   12. I had a couple of thoughts after I read that article. First, from a purely Christian perspective, man, this is a great illustration of the fact that separation of church and state doesn’t just protect the state from religion, it protects religion from the state – a big segment of white evangelical American Christianity is so deeply morally corrupt at this point that it is, from my perspective, barely Christianity at all anymore. It didn’t start with Trump – the historical roots of this are deep – but Trumpism has taken them to a place from which I think it will be very, very difficult to come back.

       Second, I’m Episcopalian, so already a member of a very progressive denomination. Trumpist evangelicals don’t care what Episcopalians think about them at all, to put it baldly – I think the Proud Boys and others would be perfectly happy to put our LGBT and female priests up against the wall. I don’t think my community can do much to save these folks from themselves. What I do wish, however, is that my community would be more outspoken in advocating for our progressive view of Christianity, and I wish that we did a better job of speaking the language of the Bible and historic Christianity in doing that.

       1. Put differently and more concisely, Trumpist Christians don’t care what I think and probably don’t consider me to be a real Christian. I don’t think I can do anything to change that. But what I can do and what my church can do is be a louder voice for a different view of the world. There’s a lot of sitting in the pews and feeling quietly morally superior that happens in American Episcopalianism, and I think God calls us to more than that.

          1. +1. Perfectly said, cbackson.

          2. Appreciate this. Thanks for your voice.

       2. I’m an Episcopalian with a number of evangelical relatives. Mostly, these relatives ignore me, don’t really stay in contact except at the most superficial level, and are totally fine being estranged from other relatives for various reasons. I wish I had a closer relationship with my parent’s siblings and their kids, but their church is their real extended family, not relatives like me. I just hope that if any of their kids wind up LBGTQ+ or atheist, they’ll figure out I’m their cousin in LA and get in touch.

          Over the years, one of the things I’ve noticed is that if I talk about MY church, they completely freeze. It’s like they can’t imagine a bunch of old hippies and college professors working with the homeless, or having an Easter service, or doing a Nativity play. Even casually mentioning women clergy is stunning to them.

   13. Apropos of your question, this is the message I received from my mainline protestant church this morning: “As Christians, we pray for our country: that reconciliation and grace will prevail, and that the United States be always safeguarded against those who would supplant democracy with cynical power. Last Sunday and next, we will include in the Prayers of the People the Book of Common Prayer’s prayer for the nation. That beautiful and holy prayer asks God to preserve us from “violence, discord, and confusion; from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way.” It further asks that God fashion us into “one united people” marked by the “spirit of wisdom.” I invite and encourage you to pray this prayer, or one of your own, individually and as a household as well, remembering God’s promise that, even when our own words fail us, “the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness; for [when] we do not know how to pray as we ought … that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words.” (Romans 8:26)”

       1. I genuinely can’t tell if this means: we denounce the rioters, their movement, and everything they stood for; or if it means: we support these patriots except for the violence part.

          1. Book of Common prayer is Episcopalian so it means we denounce the rioters, their movement and all it stands for

             1. My priest made a similar statement, and honestly, as an Episcopalian our oblique and highly WASPy style of official communication really frustrates me. It should be clearer where we stand.

                Bishop Curry called it an attempted coup and flatly condemned it; one of many reasons why I greatly respect him.

             2. Adding to cbackson’s point– the movements toward emancipation (ending slavery) and also the southern civil rights movement in the US were full of Christian moral ideology. Many of their major leaders were pastors or other theologians. That tradition isn’t very visible right now on the national or global stage.

          2. As someone who did not grow up with religion, this entire discussion reads to me like it is written in a foreign language, most especially this particular string.

             1. Fully agree with Anonymous at 12:52 pm. It sounds like “thoughts and prayers” after a shooting in a school — just a bunch of words strung together, meaning nothing at all.

             2. It seems lame that it has to be about God. Why can’t it simply be — we live in a democracy, our senior elected officials incited an insurrection to prevent a peaceful transition of power, what is going on is wrong and needs to be condemned? Why does God need to preserve us from violence, discord, confusion, etc.? What does He/She/It have to do with it? Why can’t we just strive to do it ourselves?

   14. This is a very personal issue for me and my husband. We’re deeply religious Christians, have both served in the military, live in DC and work in politics, and are both Democrats in the “‘love thy neighbor’ had no exceptions” way.

       DH was raised southern Baptist – church four times a week, twice on Sunday. Any member of his family will give you the shirt off their back. And they’re all financially comfortable and live in pretty houses. But educational attainment and professional success aren’t important to this family – no doctors or lawyers, but lots of hardworking tradesmen (and they’re all men – every one of DH’s female cousins is a SAHM with at least 3 children – not a religious thing so much as they don’t value careers, so why not stay home).

       After the attack on the Capitol, DH texted his mother and said if you don’t renounce this, if you don’t see what’s wrong with this, if you don’t see that this goes against everything I’ve done in my life, I can’t speak to you any longer. She replied with the sadly now-typical answer that the country needs Jesus; everything on earth is flawed until the Second Coming; and you don’t know who to trust anymore with the news since it’s all crooked.

       In that moment, we understood how families must have felt at the Civil War – the great disbelief and heartbreaking grief that your loved one really, truly did support the other side.

       We see in our own family the effect of all that Second Coming talk Sunday after Sunday. Yes, this earth is flawed, but if you have the means to help your fellow man, you should, not just sit back in your cozy living room and say it’s all effed til Armageddon. I think they think they’re doing what’s right by giving the shirt off their back to the poor family down the street – and they’re right in some ways – but I don’t think it’s incompatible with Christianity to use my God-given talents to advocate for a better nation, not just a better street. I know they view us in some ways as too concerned with “things of this world.”

       His family lives a long way from DC in a small town. Their concerns are small, and so their street-focus makes sense for them. That’s their world. But it’s surprising to me in a way that they won’t take their shirt-giving Christianity and extend it to the national level. Oh, they send toys to Africa at Christmas (stupidest idea ever IMO – and I did it too growing up), but think about national and international policies? No, the world is flawed and our home is in heaven.

       What’s so disheartening to me is to see people I know to be genuine believers seemingly shrug away the idea that they have any obligation to society, to their fellow man beyond the one down the street.

   15. My mom’s church (Catholic) encouraged voting for Trump this fall because “pro-life.”

       Apparently stopping abortion is more important than looking out for the lives of those already born.

5. For those following the appalling treatment of the Uighurs in China, there is a really heartbreaking first-hand account in the Guardian today. No link to avoid mod but the header is ‘our souls are dead’

   1. That is horrifying, but … why on earth did she agree to return? She knew what would happen!

      1. Yeah, I’m reading the article now and having the same thoughts.

         1. The fact that that is your main take-away is honestly disgusting. It actually sickens me.

            1. Of course we’re not victim blaming but this woman was living in a safe country in exile for many years and it didn’t seem absolutely necessary for her to go back to China. I guess I just didn’t understand why she felt she had to. Maybe the book goes into further detail.

      2. That is horrifying but . . . Never a bad time for casual victim blaming!

         1. Right? Do not victim blame people who are suffering from one of the greatest modern-day atrocities there is.

   2. Thank you for posting this – will read it today. It’s easy to forget about the enormous human rights abuses being committed against Uighur women when we have so much going on in the United States, but it’s important that we all pay attention to atrocities wherever they are committed. This situation highlights not only the dangers of autocratic surveillance states, but how women’s reproductive capacity remains a central component of our oppression.

   3. As someone who grew up in China, these re-education camps sound like what my Han grandmother went through when she criticized Mai during the Cultural Revolution. It’s chilling that this same type of treatment still exists and is not being used on Uighurs. As for why she went back, it’s probably not as simple as she presents. In China, it’s illegal to not cancel your citizenship once you acquire citizenship in another country. But a lot of people still don’t self-report and decide to hold on to their Chinese citizenship, partly for the ease of travel, and partly so they can receive a pension from the Chinese government after a certain age. I suspect she went back for these reasons. Not to excuse the Chinese government, what happened to her is vile, but she should not have renewed her passport.

6. I love this sweater! I wish Boden wasn’t so dang expensive for Canada.

   1. I LOVE Boden and ordered extensively when we lived in Europe but now that we are back in Canada it absolutely kills me. I do pick up things on Zulily sometimes (and do well by similar casual brand, Joules) but I agree. I hate the inaccessibility of it. Boo.

   2. Having never lived in Canada, I see comments like this sometimes and don’t really understand. Is it that customs charges for ordering from the US are very high? Or that Boden charges special Canada prices that are ridiculous compared to their US prices? What makes Boden worse compared to other US retailers? Genuinely curious if you feel inclined to answer.

      1. Exchange rate as well as import duties.

      2. Boden isn’t a U.S. retailer. It’s British.

7. Those of you who work commission or fee-based jobs (no guaranteed salary), how did you get comfortable with income? I just made partner at an eat what you kill firm and I am trying to figure out the balance of how many hours to bill versus market, plus the unknown of collections (knowing I’m still working on other partners files for a couple years).

   1. I’m commission only transactional finance (not law), so I can’t speak to billable hours as that does not apply but the unknown of collections is relevant. I knew it was time to make the jump into partnership when the commission-only portion of the job description wasn’t my biggest hesitation. I had enough flow from senior partners and enough warm relationships from which to generate my own business in time. Practically speaking, I lean heavily on an accountant for quarterly income tax true-ups and have worked with a financial planner who has helped me reframe how I manage thinking about my collections/cash flows. Thinking about my income on an annual basis vs the more traditionally monthly (or biweekly even) was a major mental block for me at first. Now that I have a system down I’m in much better shape. I went 9 months last year without a drop of income (thanks, covid!) and I didn’t panic at all, many thanks to my “financial therapist”/planner.

      1. I’ll also add that my colleagues who get caught, surprise surprise, spend like mad. I work with people who consistently make $500k+ annually 10 years in. It’s so easy for a new partner to clear $300k-400k for the first time and go spend like there’s no tomorrow to try to keep up with the more veteran Joneses, buying the house, vacation, the car, the boat, etc. I weathered 9 months of no income because I live conservatively. I look forward to spending a little more loosely some day, but I’ve prioritized my emergency fund (which is enormous relative to a “normal” job) and overfunding retirement, kid college funds, etc. It’s created such peace of mind between the lumpy income streams.

   2. My firm ran the numbers for me when I was in the process of making partner to show me what the take-home would be. At that point my originations were on the smaller end but not out of bounds with what the other equity partners were bringing in. Our comp is split between originations and working receipts (but skewed toward originations) so by working a lot of hours, you can theoretically bring up your take-home. For me it was a no-brainer because I was underpaid as an associate/nonequity partner, so my comp went up a lot.

      1. +1, my DH is a partner at an eat what you kill firm and this is what they did for him. He likes to front load his hours during the first 9 months of the year as much as he can so he’s not as stressed as the end of the year approaches, but that’s not always possible. OP, what do you mean when you ask about getting comfortable with the income? FWIW, my DH billed 1400 hours last year and made a little over 400K. Not biglaw money of course, but very good money for not a ton of hours IMO.

   3. I never got comfortable, I always hoarded (some may call it “save,” but it was excessive saving) it away just in case. You really have to look at it on a yearly basis and realize one month may be off the charts and the next- nothing. Those off the chart months feel so good that it’s hard not to spend when you are otherwise careful.

8. Has anyone had a d and c and hysteroscopy to remove uterine polyps? How was your recovery? Did it relieve your symptoms if you had them? I have one scheduled for next week and I’m anxious about it due to a prior d and c for a miscarriage that didn’t go well.

   1. I had this to remove a very thick uterine wall and it took care of things – haven’t had a problem since the procedure which was a couple of years ago. Recovery was easy. I did take a couple of days off from work but really would have been fine taking just one day off. Good luck!

   2. I had one and was able to walk home (with DH). I rested on the couch the rest of the day but it was more recovering from being “out” than pain from the procedure.

   3. I had a surgery to remove a uterine polyp last year – I don’t know exactly what type of surgery it was but there was no incision, they went in through my cervix. It was under general anesthesia and most of my recovery was from the anesthesia (which I don’t react well to) rather than the surgery. I had light bleeding for a few days, no pain at all, and the recovery was easy, except that I was tired, sluggish and foggy from the anesthesia for a bit longer than I thought. I only took a long weekend off (did the surgery on Friday before labor day, was back at work on the Tuesday) but I was tired on the Tuesday and went home early, and worked from home on the Wednesday.

      I didn’t have any symptoms that I know of from my polyp – it was removed as part of TTC and now I’m pregnant. My obgyn said (half jokingly) that she left my uterus in pristine condition for a baby and she was right.

9. Any suggestions for good wireless headphones? I’d like something that works well for a peloton ride so they need to be somewhat secure, but I’ve always found the headphones that go directly in your ear to be super uncomfortable.

   1. I like AfterShokz for all exercise. They sit just outside the ears, stay put and are comfortable. The bonus for me is that I can still hear other things. So if something else is going one around me, I am at least aware. This is especially handy for running and biking outside.

      1. +1 for Aftershokz. I originally got them for outdoor exercise, but am using them on the peloton right now.

         1. +2 – i got them for my husband for cycling and they’re his everyday headphones now.

      2. Oh wow – I didn’t even know this style existed! These look great, thanks for the recommendations everyone!

   2. AirPod Pros. I find the normal iPhone headphones to be super uncomfortable but I don’t even notice the Pros are there. And they work great with peloton and are sweat resistant.

      1. +1 to all of that. DH got me the AirPod Pros as a surprise – I never would have asked for them because the normal iPhone in ear headphones hurt my ears, but I love my AirPods very much. I use them for work a lot to make calls too.

         1. Yes, they have totally replaced my work headset.

   3. Look at the different Anker brand headphones on Amazon. I specifically like Anker Curve, which has very small soft in-ear buds, but are really held in by these clips over your ears. I also hate in-ear, but these don’t go in too far and I love them for Peloton. But in general, all the Anker bluetooth headphones are both really good, likely water resistant, and super cheap so not a huge deal if you try and don’t like them.

      1. I have an anker around the neck thingy (with a solid U that goes around the neck)- can confirm is highly water resistant, battery lasts >2 dy without charging, U thing is comfortable, I don’t have to worry about losing one of the airpod style things even when I don’t have pockets, and whole thing was 50$.

         Is one of my best purchases this yr.

   4. I absolutely love my Beats Studio 3 for all things. For exercise, I bought some covers for the earmuff parts to keep them from getting destroyed by sweat.

10. I’m really struggling with feeling taken advantage of by my husband’s parents.

    Basically, they put me in situations where I feel like I’m obligated to do the socially acceptable thing but I end up feeling a ton of resentment afterwards. For example, when my son was born they said they wanted to drop off takeout the day we got back from the hospital. Then they showed up and rang the doorbell said “oh our takeout is in here too, we’ll just come in and separate it, ok? Oh but you won’t mind if we just eat here we’re actually really hungry.” my husband thinks it’s my fault that I let them stay for dinner and ended up serving waiting on them and, specifically, clearing all the plates while my husband’s stepdad watched me do it and sarcastically remarked at me limping. (My husband and his mom decided to leave us at the table to stare at my sleeping baby.) To this day, my husband thinks this was my problem for not turning them away.

    Another example, on Christmas, I offered them each a drink when they arrived. I’m pregnant and did all the cooking. When I sat down for a moment after the roast was in the oven my husband’s stepdad just yelled “LILAU!” and rattled the ice in his glass at me with this sick look on his face like “how dare you sit down when my glass is empty.” Of course I got it, but it was degrading. Again my husband says this is my fault and I should have pushed back. I should add that when my mother in law had to leave at the end of the night my husband’s stepdad insisted on staying for another hour after dinner and coffee.

    My mil also has this habit of deciding she’ll help us by bringing my kid to school, usually my husband’s job. She’ll then ask for a cup of coffee and basically hang out for an hour, chatting with my husband and give me dirty looks if I’m not dressed yet. Last Friday when she came he was out of the house getting the car fixed so I just basically told kiddo it was time for school and shoo’d them out the door. Totally awkward but at least not a waste of my morning.

    Yes, I wish they weren’t in the bubble. But our childcare situation is tenuous and we did need them for a period when the state shut down our daycare so I’m hesitant to use a covid excuse here.

    I did once push back on them, when they were staying with us a week before our wedding after a major hurricane when all their power was out. They had a really nasty virus and I lost temper as I was cleaning up a lot of half finished bottles of iced tea and tissues they had left everywhere. I basically yelled “do you still need this this and this?! “ of course it was a big dramatic thing about how they’d rather go home to their cold dark house than be near me. Yes, my husband took their side and I apologized.

    Anyway, sorry for the novel but if there is any polite way to push back on this I’m all ears. I feel like I’m on the brink of another lost temper and my otherwise wonderful husband just doesn’t get it.

    1. This is a massive husband problem! You have to be on the same page and maybe suggest marriage counselling if he doesn’t understand. But it also sounds like you have trouble standing up for yourself and you really need to learn that skill. Who cares if she’s giving you dirty looks because you’re not dressed? You go about your business and ignore her. She’s your husband’s problem.

    2. You have a husband problem, as well as an in-law problem. Marriage counseling, stat. Your husband isn’t sounding so wonderful here, TBH.

    3. Ugh. In-law drama. I feel you– this is so tough. I think you’ve accurately determined that this is a husband problem at the core, and if your husband would step up and manage your in-laws, your life would be much easier. Is he open to marriage counseling. There’s nothing like a 3rd party perspective to be like, “Uh, no– YOU’RE the jerk for allowing your parents to treat your wife like a waiter.”

    4. What should’ve happened is you stood up for yourself in those moments, but your husband immediately jumped in to have your back and then did any additional reinforcement as needed. That would be working as a team.

       1. I agree with this entirely. As an example of what should have happened:

          FIL: *rattles glass* LILAU!
          OP: Do you need more to drink? There’s juice in the fridge and beer in the cooler over there.
          OP’s Spouse: C’mon Dad, you know where the drinks are.

          I think you should talk to your husband. Tell him that you’ve been in a cycle of smoothing things over with his parents and then resenting it, and you’re not doing that anymore. When you push back, you want him to back you up.

          I will disagree with the other posters a little bit, because I don’t think your husband is the only problem. He can’t swoop in to protect you if you are silently acquiescing to his parents demands in the moment and then losing your temper later. I think you need to work on deprogramming yourself a little, and become more comfortable with judgment. Your MIL may judge you for not being dressed, but you have to learn not to care. Of course she shouldn’t judge you, but you can’t control that.

          1. Agreed.

          2. This. It’s on DH, but you have to advocate for yourself, too. You have a voice independent of your husband’s.

          3. Husband isn’t the only problem but he’s definitely part of the problem. We have a rule in my house which is you deal with your side of the family. It works really well and leads to better relationships all around.

          4. This.

          5. Yes yes yes

    5. Your husband is the jerk here. I’m sorry. How was he allowing his wife who just gave birth to wait on his parents? Or his pregnant wife to make all of Christmas dinner for his parents and serve them drinks? Why are you the one cleaning up after their sick messes and not him?

       I mean yes, your ILs are jerks, but you didn’t choose and marry them. You married your husband. He needs to step up and be your partner, or you need to DTMF. Your ILs won’t change, but he should.

       TBH my ex was like this, and I didn’t even realize how bad he was until I left that marriage. Again, I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this.

       1. This. Therapy for you, counseling for you and your husband if there is anything to save here. Or start your plan to leave. I have my gripes with my husband here and there, but this sounds cruel to me.

          1. I don’t think this is DTMFA territory. He’s used to seeing his wife stand up to other people (but she’s being REALLY conciliatory because they’re her in-laws). He’s perplexed as to why she’s being a doormat with them. He’s also been programmed since infancy by these people, and it sounds like they suck. I have seen it time and again that awesome people revert to old survival modes around family.

             1. Awesome people would try to be better spouses and work on that, though. Husband is a real ass and if he isn’t willing to change then it’s time to DTMFA.

             2. Sure, he needs to change, but she’s being really weird about this too. So they both need to change.

    6. I can’t help but wonder if you and/or your husband is from a culture that typically worships and caters to parents, like in South Asia?

       1. This was my first thought since I have SE Asian family, but my second thought was that the men have never shaken water glasses at me or raised their voices. Yes there is a cultural expectation of honoring elders and of women doing the domestic labor, but I have never observed this kind of disrespectful behavior. Whatever the culture, the FIL is acting like a jerk.

       2. I’m Indian, and I understand what you’re saying re: deference to parents, but this is rude behavior. Trust me, this would not be considered even remotely normal in functional Indian families.

       3. Doesn’t sound South Asian to me. Step dads aren’t common in SA culture and certainly not at the age where their spouses would have grown children. And South Asian men of that generation are more passive aggressive — they’d raise an eyebrow at an empty glass but wouldn’t shake a glass or yell at a DIL. And SA men of a certain age would NEVER acknowledge that a woman has given birth by pointing out something like the fact that she’s limping; babies just fall from the sky — it is absolutely taboo for a man to mention birth or a physical after effect of birth or even acknowledge that a woman may be in pain after, esp true for older men.

          1. Lol that reminds me of the time that I had just given birth to my first baby, and I walked out of the bathroom and blurted out “Omg, my body is horrifying right now!” and my father just absolutely melted into the floor with embarrassment.

    7. The problem is really your husband. He should be intervening. Frankly, he should want to intervene because it should make him angry to see his wife treated that way. Marriage therapy.

       1. Seriously. Apparently it’s the 1950s to her husband. Big yikes.

       2. +1. It’s on your husband to set boundaries with your ILs first and foremost. Your SFIL sounds like a real piece of work though. Maybe your husband isn’t prepared to stand up to him, and your MIL won’t listen to any criticism of her husband?

       3. This. ILs sound bad but husband worse – he’s supposed to be on your team.

    8. I don’t disagree that there’s a husband issue, but I think you are passive about certain things. For example, the ice-rattling-in-the-glass as a demand for you to serve FIL. It seems like you didn’t have the presence of mind to say “FIL, why are you rattling the ice at me?” in a puzzled tone, as if he was just doing something weird and you had no idea what he was signaling. If it were me, I’d play dumb about what the ice-rattling meant, to get him to the point of MAKING him say “I’d like another gin and tonic” and then you can either say, “Sure, Bob, I’m resting for a moment so I’ll get it for you when I’m next up” [if you would ordinarily do so, like if he is infirm] or “Sure, Bob, everything’s over there on the bar, help yourself.” I also have no problem with a “I think you meant to say please”, the way you might say it if you were teaching a child how to ask for something. But there’s something in your psyche that is making you feel like you can’t say those things. It sounds as though husband would support you in these things but he’s also asking for you to assert yourself in these situations.

       1. Also please know how tame these responses are– they’re not aggressive at all, if you are worried about that. In comparison to my response, which would be “Rattle that ice at me one more time and I will kick you the hell out of my house,” all of these would be very polite.

    9. This is a husband problem. Your in-laws are being objectively disrespectful and he needs to tell them to cut it out. On these matters, I’m very much a traditionalist: your marriage should be the most important relationship to both of you, and anyone who tries to undermine that or take priority needs to be put back in their place. Each side handles his/her own family.

       I recommend the book “Toxic In Laws” to help you understand what is going on and your husband to understand how it’s hurting your marriage.

    10. I think you need some assertiveness training in general. Assertiveness is still polite; in the ice-rattling situation, there’s nothing wrong with saying “I don’t understand why you’re rattling your ice at me, what are you trying to say?” or “the drinks are at the bar” or “I’ll get it for you in 5 minutes.” I wonder if there is a cultural-clash situation as well.

        1. Yesssssss all of this. Of course your husband is a problem. But people treat you how you let them.

        2. When her husband does not back her up, assertiveness makes her the bad guy. The in-laws are taking their cues from their son, and absent him immediately backing up his wife (rather than equivocating or trying to make everyone happy), she will go under the bus.

           Trust me, my very mild assertiveness made me the bad guy when my husband played the “let’s make everyone happy” game. They took their cues from him, saw that he was not backing his own wife to the hilt, and just charged through that slightly open door. End result? Two years later, my SIL can’t say she’s sorry for calling me fat at my own wedding. The family is a LOT more torn apart than it would have been if my husband had told her to shut her pie hole.

           He did not because his way of coping with her crap has always been to cringe under her insults and not make a scene. (She started dating his brother when they were all teenagers; this stuff goes back 20 years.) It took a lot of brutal fighting before he really understood the dynamics and why he had to be the one to tell her to knock it off.

    11. So sorry you are dealing with this. I have in law issues too. My BIL hasn’t seen our daughters in about 6 years and I have never gotten along with him. Luckily he lives in another state. I also don’t have the best relationship with my MIL and FIL – they can be passive aggressive and hard to deal with for more than a short visit. It is the right answer that your husband should have your back and take care of things with his parents. Easier said than done. He will say, these are his parents, this is how they are, etc. I would try to minimize the time you spend with them; if they come over, make up an errand to run or busy yourself with the kids or chores so that you don’t have to sit around with them and wait on them. Or say that you can only visit for a certain time and then you have to do “x”. With my in laws, I find I can only be in good behavior with them for a short time and then I get resentful and mad (mine have no interest in me, never say thank you and heap tons of praise on my husband). Good luck! Therapy sounds like a good idea too. I never did go to therapy for my situation so I can’t comment on that.

    12. You need to explain to your husband that he needs to step up with his family. My husband got it when I explained that I would not expect him to address issues like this with my family and would take care of them myself and that I expected him to do the same with his family.

    13. Agree with everyone commenting this is a husband problem, not an in-law problem.

    14. Grow up. No one can do the work of being an adult for you. Sure. Your husband is largely to blame here. But since you’ve decided to stay married to someone who does not care enough to stand up for you, your choices are continue to be a ridiculous doormat or grow up. “Nope, now isn’t a good time.” “Please feel free to help yourself to a drink.” When she comes in, do your own thing. If your husband wants a coffee chat great I assume you have a job do that.

        If you’re looking for a magical phrase to somehow solve this without anyone being mad, again, with much love, grow up.

        1. This is not a kind tone at all. I always wonder – does it make you feel good to write like this? You realize there is a human being on the other side who is reading this. Part of being a grown up is having some kindness.

           1. I think she is way way way too kind and needs some straight talking!

              1. Do you genuinely believe that being mean is helpful? I really doubt that you do.

              2. I genuinely do not think this is mean and believe it may be helpful.

              3. There is a way to deliver messages without being overly blunt or rude about it.

    15. Chiming in to agree that your husband is the problem. He needs to have your back.

    16. You might have a husband problem, but I wonder if it’s an obliviousness problem rather than a case of him not having your back. You step FIL sounds awful, which makes me wonder if the family your husband grew up in had more of a subservient wife dynamic than a partnership dynamic. If that’s what he’s used to seeing, maybe it isn’t registering to him in the moment when his family is placing unreasonable demands on you. If you had some sort of signal to tell him that he needs to step in, maybe that would help him recognize the problem in the moment and do something about it? It sounds like you are so focused on being outwardly pleasant during these encounters that even he might not see in the moment how upset you are. I’m not making excuses for him, but I do think that deprogramming the unhealthy dynamics from your childhood can be hard, and figuring out some temporary strategies to work towards setting those boundaries might be helpful.

    17. My opinion is that there’s plenty of blame to go around. You should indeed stand up for yourself. Your husband should have your back. Your in-laws should stop treating you like a doormat. You’re unlikely to change your in-laws. I’m guessing there’s a long history of this dynamic between your husband and your in-laws. He seems to have found his way of coping for himself, but he needs to also have your back as you find your way, which will be different because you are a different person and you have a different relationship to his parents than he does. Therapy would be a great place to explore this. The only thing you can control directly and immediately is your response.

        This is paradoxical, but my relationship with my MIL improved once I started being “rude” to her. She has a lot of good qualities (really), but she’s pretty passive-aggressive, and she pushes boundaries. Several would-be dramas have been resolved by a direct, withering remark from me. When she’s at my house for long periods of time, I’ll get to a point where I just go about my business and let my husband entertain her and let them take care of our kid.

    18. Your husband sounds like a dick.

    19. 1) your husband is an ass. Your primary problem is with him because these are his parents. You need to be very very very clear with him that this is not ok with you and that you feel betrayed by him putting his parents before you, because that is exactly what he is doing.

        2) I know it will be difficult to implement, but going forward do not do anything you don’t want to do. If you’re sitting in a chair and your super rude FIL asks you for a drink, continue sitting in your chair. If they bring takeout food, do not rush around serving them. Sit and eat the food. They may get mad, they may blame you for it. Good. Let them. Better they be mad openly than you continue to seethe in resentment. Do not let them take advantage of you.

        3) I suggest marital counseling because with a husband like this I sincerely doubt this is your only issue.

    20. Thanks all. I’ve taken this to heart – in particular the parts about being more assertive. I was hurt by the poster who repeatedly told me to “grow up” even though I know there’s some truth and value to her underlying message.

        To the extent there’s a cultural dynamic at play, these are all American born white folk but I think our sense of manners are different. My parents would never have NOT offered you a drink when you came in the door, but also they’d be horrified if someone shook a glass at them. They used to entertain a TON pre-pandemic and I guess I’m just following their script. This all seems like normal basic manners. My mil and her husband probably see this as license to be waited on, they really don’t have a ton of friends that they see socially and I guess they think since I am gracious I am there to wait on them.

        Reading all the response makes me think that push back is super tricky – remembering the pre-wedding incident, I don’t think that faux confusion or sarcasm is the way to go. Things got turned around on me so quickly there, and in retrospect they were in the wrong too.

        At the core, I think if I stand up for myself, which I agree I should, my husband might not have my back. That’s where the therapy probably needs to happen.

        1. Best of luck!

           And remember – your inlaws are the rude ones. They are being rude. They will continue to be rude.

           You don’t have be rude back, but you can be clear and more assertive. It’s not rude to stand up for yourself, it’s not rude to expect politeness from them, it’s not rude to expect your husband to have your back.

           You have no social obligation to go out of your way to pander to their rudeness in an attempt to make the whole situation less rude. It doesn’t work. Neutral is better for you.

        2. OK, if these are American-born white people, then there is no cultural reason that they are entitled to any deference. It is your husband’s job to put them in their place.

        3. Next time he shakes his glass at you and says, “Lilau,” I would just say “Husband” and go right back to eating or whatever else I was doing.

        4. Push back is only super tricky if you expect them to change their behavior. They are treating you badly and if you push back, they will most likely not turn around, apologize and magically develop manners. Expecting to find the one response on your part that will change them is setting yourself up for disappointment. Know that they are rude, expect them to continue to be rude, so placating them is not feasible, and act like YOU want to act, given this reality.
           Now, your husband is a different story. He made a promise to you when he married you. Expecting him to behave in accordance with that is not unreasonable. Maybe marriage counseling and individual counseling for him will enable him to back you up, since he clearly seems to agree that his parents are in the wrong and he presumably gets that this makes you unhappy, he just doesn’t bother intervening. Maybe you two can work out other support systems and see them less often as a halfway measure. He has to WANT to help. If he doesn’t want to help his wife after knowing that she is suffering, there will be no logical argument that will persuade him. Then you are back to the point where you control only your own behavior and your own decisions.

        5. Push back is not tricky at all. You need to reread these dozens of helpful responses and reflect on how that is your takeaway.

        6. Seriously, do some reflecting upon why it is so difficult for you not to immediately jump up when he rattles the ice at you. I think you’re confusing polite manners (serving guests in your household) with being a doormat. Think of it this way – suppose FIL were infirm and he said politely, “Lilau, when you have a moment, would you mind getting me another drink?” Of course you’d be happy to. You might even proactively offer it. But you are not the cocktail waitress. He needs to be able to either get it himself (if his physical condition permits) or ask you in a polite way for another drink and be willing to wait a few minutes for it. Would you put up with that kind of behavior from a child?

        7. And they will very likely get very pissed off that you’re standing up for yourself. Like, how dare you! You’re *supposed* to take our crap and like it!

        8. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I share this challenge. I get frustrated when my in-laws are casual and seem to expect me to serve them. I was raised to help clean up, say thank you, etc., and they take a much more casual approach as visitors in my house. It’s not that they’re outwardly offensive, it’s more a casual attitude, but I still find it rude and the end result is the same.
           I too struggle with immediately standing up for myself in these situations (as in, can you please help clean up…and saying it before I am fuming), whether with them or venting to my husband, because maybe it’s nothing big, I don’t want to be seen as rude or rock the boat or offend anyone or jeopardize a relationship or come across as petty or embarrass them or make a scene. They’ll probably look at me like I’m an alien or get defensive or feel bad. I really struggle with it. And am then resentful toward them, because why would anyone expect others to serve them. Is this something I missed, the expectation that hosts should be doing the majority of serving and cleaning up for long term visitors?
           Anyway, thank you, as this discussion has helped a bit, and hugs. It’s hard not to let this get under your skin after repeated behavior!

        9. I firmly believe that entertaining =/= being a servant or waiting on people, especially if they’re close family who comes over a lot. My MIL frequently comes over to our house, and she knows where most things are. If we’re all on the couch or at the table and I get up to go to the kitchen, I usually offer to refill anyone’s drinks or grab something, but if she demanded I refill her drink while we were all sitting down together, I would absolutely refuse, and my fiancee would probably say, “Mom, are you serious? Get your own damn drink.”. You DO NOT need to wait hand and foot on people in your own home.

        10. What I would do in these situations is call on my husband to help with the task in the moment. If FIL shook his glass at me, I’d say “Hey husband, your dad’s cocktail is broken, can you please fix it? Thanks!” Don’t do it in a passive aggressive way or overly sweet or condescending voice; it’s just a matter-of-fact hey-asking-for-a-hand-real-quick. But I do have a husband who would step up in that situation. (He also avoids this problem in the first place by reading the room and dealing with his own parents, but…sounds like yours isn’t there yet.)

            If husband isn’t around, I would 100% just point to where the drinks are and let him serve himself. Tbh, I would probably do this without even thinking about it as standing up for myself, because I don’t operate under the assumption that I’m the default one to get up and grab things. So to me, that’s not at all rude or even assertive. (And that is not a value judgment against you at all, just acknowledging that it sounds like we come from a different set of default operating principles.)

        11. Why? What would happen if you didn’t immediately jump to FIL rattling his ice, but you looked puzzled as to what he was doing or trying to communicate? Would he eventually say “Lilau, I’m asking you to get me another drink”? What would happen if you then said, “I’m happy to get you another drink, but please don’t shake the ice at me, I don’t appreciate it”?

    21. Not necessarily recommending this, but I did blow up at my in-laws when I was pregnant and they were complaining about our house (it’s too old, you need to fix it up, etc.*). Basically, I raised my voice and told them that the only way we could fix it up was if my husband changed jobs (and we’d never see him), I changed jobs (and we lost our health insurance), or someone gave us money which clearly isn’t happening absent a lottery win. They have basically been terrified of me since that day almost 10 years ago.

        *My house’s condition can best be described as inhabitable, but not renovated (it’s a 1950s tract house in West LA).

11. A while back, someone had a recommendation for a podcast or book about the “purity movement” and how it has created some guilt for women (and maybe men) as they age and broaden their experiences. I grew up in a very religious household and still hold a few core beliefs, but not that a person should get stoned for premarital gardening. I’d like to learn more about this idea, including from a religious perspective if that exists (not just gardening = bad unless married/procreating). Suggestions welcome!

    1. Be There in 5 has a really good podcast on this. It’s not academic or theological in nature – it’s just women sharing their experiences of growing up in purity culture and how it continues to affect them. It really resonated for me as someone who came of age in that period as a Christian.

       1. Agree with Be There in 5.

    2. Not a podcast, but Pure: inside the evangelical movement that shamed a generation of young women and how I broke free was really good. I grew up evangelical adjacent (attended Catholic church but had many evangelical family members, read many Focus on the Family publications, etc) and it resonated with my experiences.

    3. I love The Purity Myth by Jessica Valenti, which is a book and not a podcast, and a quick read at that, but I love her writing.

12. I’m dealing with uncharted water in my marriage, here. DH lost a parent a few months ago. While I completely understand that he’s grieving and have been trying to give him space, I also feel like he’s a little checked out on our own family life. He’ll be in the basement, helping his mom work on her financial affairs (phone or email, not in person) while I’m upstairs cooking dinner and trying to help my daughter with her homework. Or he’ll be downstairs, scanning old photos, because it’s A Project To Do and that’s how he deals with hard feelings. But again, I’m keeping our family life running while all this is happening. If he’s upstairs with us, he’s scrolling his phone and half paying attention. And then, when the kids are finally in bed and I’m ready to pass out from exhaustion, he’s ready to talk about his feelings with me. Which I get, and I’m glad he’s talking to me, but I’m also doing the heavy lifting with helping our kids process their grief over losing a grandparent.

    I feel like a monster, but I am Over It. I am sympathetic to how much this s*cks, but I need him to set aside some time to do this stuff that doesn’t interfere with the busiest hours of our family time. Is that a reasonable ask, or do I need to suck it up and accept that this is part of having a grieving spouse? I’m getting resentful, and mostly I’m just tired and want everyone to leave me alone for a week.

    1. so i lost a parent last December, and I sort of had the reverse situation. DH is the one in our marriage with a big job, travel involved (pre covid) whereas I work a lot less, and so i often felt like i had to keep on going without a chance to really check out. and our kids are toddlers, so different issues, but i was so so exhausted. i actually don’t think you are being unreasonable, but if DH has a full time job and I don’t know if you are all in the same time zone, but is there a better time of day to help his mom with financial affairs? or is there not? i was also lucky (?) in that my remaining parent does not need help with things like financial affairs. scanning photos obviously doesn’t have to be done during dinner. how many months is a few months? 2? was it sudden? i think two things – think about what you would want in a reverse situation? and, i also think be open with DH that you are drowning and that you know he is going through a lot, and that you want to be supportive, and see if he has any ideas.

       1. It was sudden, and I see DH putting a lot of pressure on himself to be a “good son” (he’s an only child) and make sure his mom his holding up okay. He has expressed that he feels like he’s falling short and spread thin between his mom/work/us, which is why I hesitate to bring up that hey — I am having a hard time, too, and I can’t have you checking out.

          1. My dad raised me by himself, so we were really close. He died when my children were young. My dad took the very best care of me he could when I was a child (no matter what else was happening in his life) and I owe it to my kids to do the same for them. Being a good child means paying it forward, not dropping my kids in favor of tending to my dad. Even when he was in his final months of life, the time between daycare pickup and bedtime was for my children, unless a physician caring for him in the hospital needed to talk with me (I had medical POA).

             Your husband’s mom has had a lifetime to come up with a support network. Your kids didn’t ask to exist and only have their parents. They need him. They need you to not be burned out. Your husband can block out some time to help his mom, or deal with his grief, or occasionally dip out if he’s having trouble, but he should pull it together to be there for the children and you most of the time.

             Part of being a parent is that kids are your primary responsibility. I’ve seen what happens when a parent focuses on their parent instead of their kids. I didn’t want that for my kids and your husband shouldn’t want that for his.

    2. I think everything here is completely normal. If you haven’t lost a parent it can be hard to understand how much work there is that goes along with it that you feel you have to do to honor your parent. But as you correctly note, you’re floundering too will no help.

       I think sitting down and talking about what you need is the way to go. Express that doing dinner and bedtime routine alone is exhausting you and you can’t keep it up. Ask how you can work together to figure this out.

       1. +1

          The death of a parent – particularly if a surviving parent is dealing with the loss and was the more dependent parent – can be very difficult. The financial part was overwhelming to me, nevermind dealing with my surviving parent’s loss (they were the one who asked for the photos!) and then my own issues…. I

          And “a few months” ago sounds pretty recent….

          I like the above poster’s script for talking with your husband. That is what is needed.

          I also have a rule that I can’t talk about difficult intellectual stuff or emotionally challenging stuff late at night.

    3. Awww, this sucks. I think it’s reasonable to ask your spouse to be present during the busiest hours of your family life (dinner and homework), while recognizing that he may need to carve out some time to process his feelings, and that his mom may need extra help and/or company right now. It’s also reasonable to protect yourself and listen to him talk about his feelings at a time when you have more energy.

    4. 1) Grief is hard, because it’s so individual. It sounds like you are a really empathetic spouse, but you’re struggling. This is totally valid and understandable. 2) Please talk to him right now and ask him to set aside some time/mental energy for family time. You may need to give him very specific examples: eat dinner with us, clean up the kitchen, help with laundry, no feelings talking after 9PM or whatever you need. Share with him that you’re getting resentful and you don’t want to be that way. My dad died unexpectedly right before I got engaged. My now DH handled it really well, but it was hard on him and he had already dealt with the death of a parent and other grief (combat vet). It miiiight be helpful for you to see a therapist (virtually) to vent a little, and to get strategies to let him grieve in the way that works for him, while also holding him accountable that he can’t just nope out on his nuclear family. Hugs to you. It’s not easy.

       1. Thank you for sharing that perspective. I do need to be clearer that I expect him to be around during certain times instead of holed up in the basement. And I probably need to find a safe venting space. I don’t feel comfortable sharing this particular struggle with my friends.

       2. This sounds a bit unreasonable to me. There are only so many hours in the day. Cutting off “feelings talk” at 9 pm sounds cruel. Isn’t that when a couple finally gets alone time? I get that he shouldn’t bring it up as you are falling asleep but when you are alone in your bedroom sounds like the perfect time to have intimate discussions.

          If you sat down and tried to make a schedule that allowed him time to help his mom and to process pictures (for me that was a HUGE part of my healing process. I made so many online albums and collages) when would that actually occur?

          Two months is not a long time to grieve at all.

          I guess I struggle with getting enough sleep, billing enough hours, eating enough healthy, nutritious home cooked food and exercising that I don’t see where else your husband would carve out time for those things. Maybe pictures on the weekends only and mom stuff in the morning before work? But again, that cuts into sleep and probably getting kids ready for school.

          1. I have to disagree that it’s cruel to ask that he lay off the ruminating at bedtime. From personal experience, I can attest that preserving bedtime as wind-down time is absolutely necessary for OP’s self-preservation. She is carrying a heavy load and needs some downtime so she can sleep well. It is absolutely unfair to expect her to serve as his therapist every night. He needs to get an actual therapist to unload on instead of his wife.

    5. As someone who was in your situation about 20 years ago, sorry to say this but you need to suck it up. This is not going to last forever and a little empathy now will go a long way later when you lose a parent and aren’t at 100% for months at a time.

       My FIL was killed in a car accident in 2001. My husband has not been the same since, but that first six months was rough. He went through a lot of processing of his relationship with his dad, things he never got to say to his dad that now he would never get to say. A lot of people go into coping mechanisms, healthy and unhealthy. (Compared to other behavior I have seen in people we know who have experienced loss, your husband’s mechanisms seem reasonable.) I remember feeling very much like my husband was only 50% present at best for about six months, maybe a little longer. It got better and he worked through his grief and got re-engaged with our life more. Until then there was not much to do besides encourage counseling and wait it out.

       This is depressing but I am sure you are aware: your time for this is coming; it comes for us all. How you react now and the empathy you can bring to bear in this situation will be returned to you later. Your husband lost a parent. There is no replacement for a parent. He will get through his grief but that has to happen on his timeline. If you’re tired and strung out, hire household help. Take your kids to counseling. Encourage your husband to go to counseling. Go to counseling yourself. But do not make the mistake of putting your feelings and your emotions at the center of this situation because plainly, they are not the most important factor here. This is a marriage “critical competency:” holding things together when the worst happens and the other person is falling apart. You will trade that role back and forth during your marriage, and hopefully will have at least some stretches where things are level and everything is as it should be. I hope you didn’t get married thinking it was going to be all sunshine and roses forever, because that was naive. If making sacrifices and bucking up under strain is not something you can handle for even a short time, it’s probably time to think about whether or not marriage is for you – it’s not for everyone. Because this probably won’t be the last time you go through something like this with your husband. I will say loss of the first parent is the hardest time, or it was for us.

       1. Wow. Not only are policing how this woman is grieving but did you seriously just put in the same post that your husband hasn’t been the same since his dad died TWENTY YEARS AGO and she should divorce her grieving spouse two months after his dad’s death. Incredible.

          1. If you’re not married, or haven’t been married as long as I have, you don’t get it, sorry. I don’t consider very many of the women who post here qualified in any way to give marital advice given what I’ve seen over the years. 90% of responses to any question about marriage (90% of which are from unmarried women) bash the husband and recommend divorce. Nothing could ever possibly be the wife’s fault, and speaking as a wife, I can say that in my early marriage there were absolutely times I was at fault, and focused on myself to an amount that was damaging. Same thing with parenting advice; there’s a difference between someone who has grown, successful children posting about what works and what doesn’t vs. someone who thinks they are qualified to speak on parenting because they know people who have kids and every once in awhile they go to that person’s house and observe the kids’ behavior. Watching Hallmark Christmas movies doesn’t make someone an expert in what it takes to make a real-life relationship work. Much to people’s chagrin, I’m sure.

             1. ok, boomer.

             2. You win two gold medals for doing both marriage and grief in precisely the correct way. I should apologize to the OP for trying to advise her, empathetically, on a nuanced subject with which I have direct, extensive experience.

             3. Your attitude is so over the top that it’s laughable.

       2. Yeah…wow. It sounds like you and your spouse did what worked for you in a traumatic situation and that’s great!
          It sounds like OP’s situation is that (1) her husband knows he’s disengaged and *wants* to re-engage and is struggling to do so (2) she *is* holding it together but is reasonably struggling to carry the load alone and (3) she is trying to get some help from us about how to *not* make it all about her while not getting crushed under it all. There’s no need to criticize or scold OP, who is almost certainly grieving herself.

       3. Dude, I’ve been married for 17 years. I’m not new to how this marriage thing works, but thank you so much for assuming the worst of me! I did appreciate some of your other thoughts, but that was sort of beyond the pale.

       4. Chiming in as someone whose husband suddenly lost his dad when we were together, but very young. This was 15 years ago. I’m guessing based on the comments about bed time that you are both young. It’s tougher losing a parent young because normally there isn’t anyone in your friend group whose been there, and also it also just means that there is so much more the parent won’t be there for.

          I knew at the time having seen what it did to my mom losing her dad at the same age as my husband did (in similar unexpected death) is that the poster above who said her husband was never the same is somewhat right. There are impacts that both of you will feel for years to come from the obvious (big life events the parent is not at) to more nuanced and subtle moments where something makes them miss their dad (e.g., not being there to answer calls on how to fix a toilet … yes, this did actual cause a moment). It also completely changes family dynamic as everyone adjusts to the void, sometimes with unhealthy codependent relationships.

          The advice I would have given myself 15 years ago is to recognize the difference between grief and depression. Everyone here has commented on the importance of counselling and I cannot stress it enough. A few sessions can help you contextualize x, y, and z are normal reactions to this trauma, if it is three months later and x is still happening please come and see me. In other words, what do you just “wait out” and when is it time to get help. If you haven’t read it yet, “The Ball & The Box” really resonates with a lot of people.

    6. There is no getting around the fact that this time is / will continue to be really really hard. I’m so sorry. The pandemic is undoubtedly making it harder. You are not a monster.

       I was single and taking a planned adult gap year when my dad died. It was a terrible, terrible year and I oscillated wildly between “fine” and “non-functional.” Your request is reasonable but he probably can’t do it all the time. There will be times when despite good intentions he just won’t be able to stick to it. Give him and yourself some grace.

       I would try

       (1) Scheduling some time *with the kids* to remember the parent/grandparent. The kids are grieving, he’s grieving, I presume you are grieving, and there is no reason talking about feelings should be an after the kids go to bed activity. It’s okay if everyone winds up crying. These conversations will help everyone grieve, and potentially make passing out from exhaustion more realistic for you. Relatedly, can the kids help him scan photos or the like? They can look at the photos, talk about memories, hear stories, etc.

       (2) You don’t say how old your kids are but I vote for a little good old-fashioned bribery in exchange for quiet time for you. Can you leave them with junk food and a movie for two hours once or twice a week?

       (3) You don’t say what you are cooking for dinner… but if it’s anything more elaborate than frozen waffles maybe just stop? Frozen waffles and the like will not harm anyone for a week or seventeen and it would reduce the load on you when he just can’t do any heavy lifting.

       1. I like all of your ideas and thoughts. The older kiddo might be able to help DH with the photos. I hate how much we’ve relied on screen time during the pandemic to catch a break, but it is what it is. And I probably need to go with even simpler dinners than what I’m already making. Not that I’m knocking it out of the park with meal planning, but following any sort of recipe might be more than I can handle at the moment.

          1. Good luck! I’m rooting for you.

    7. So I think it takes 90 days for the immediate fog of grief to lift, at which point you can do more but you still have waves of grief to surf. And as a practical matter helping a surviving parent through the logistics of implementing an estate plan and then getting set up for their new life takes time. The surviving spouse is told not to make any major financial decisions for a year because their decision making is impaired so you have to wait until they can make good decisions and then help them implement on their plan.

       1. I know we’re in this for the long haul and want to be supportive in whatever way I can, and I know that means picking up more of the load for my spouse. That said — I’m not an endless well of energy, physically or emotionally, and we’re in the middle of a pandemic.

          1. This will get easier with time.

    8. I think if you’re exhausted, you need to outsource some things, not tell your husband to get with it. Get a counselor for the children to help manage their grief. Do some grocery delivery or blue apron for a few months. But also talk with your husband about using professionals to help the mom with her financial and legal affairs. He can still be involved and go to appointments with her, but it’s a huge weight to take on those burdens completely.

13. yesterday someone commented on this, but agreed that a silver lining of the pandemic is that fewer people were in the capitol last week. i was talking with a friend and they were wondering why the domestic terrorists didn’t shoot up the place (obviously very grateful that they didn’t). Since they had weapons, why didn’t they use them? They did PLENTY of damage, but could’ve done a bunch more.

    1. There is a every indication that they would have done. We can thank the shockingly inadequate security response for at least stopping the very worst of what could’ve happened. Among at least part of the terrorist crowd, some intended to take hostages and/or shoot lawmakers. Nancy Pelosi was a known target.

       1. since there was like one security officer there, they could’ve just shot the officer and gone forward, no?

          1. Your tone makes it sound like you are eager to downplay the violence and the intentions of the terrorists.

             1. +1

    2. Yeah I am still processing but my takeaway so far is the only reason we don’t have a bunch of dead or injured lawmakers is mostly due to luck. On Pod Save America someone commented that we should proceed as if the worst case scenario happened, because it very well could have, and could in the future.

       1. I feel like the response we’ve seen so far is so inadequate. It makes me wonder if there’s any more we could or would be doing in response even if many more people had been killed.

    3. I think there should be an examination of whether DC’s gun laws against open carry and conceal carry had anything to do with it. There were some terrorists with guns, but we didn’t have a situation a la various states over the summer where they were open carrying semi automatic weapons on the steps of the Capitol. I suspect that some of the insurrectionists left their guns at home because they knew that would be an immediate arrest if they were caught out there with a gun.

       The same question could also be asked of why the Capitol Police generally did not open fire (except for the one woman who was shot and died).

       I think we are extremely lucky that there was not more violence and bloodshed than there was.

       1. This is how I see it. If you compare the footage with pics from this summer’s ‘Open my nail salon’ rallies around the country, you don’t see much brandishing of large weapons last week in DC, because it’s actually outlawed there (doesn’t mean there were no guns in the crowd, but far fewer and you couldn’t wave it around without being arrested).
          Another point could be that the Capitol Police took this potential escalation into account when they decided to let it all happen instead of coming down hard on the first people trying to breach the perimeter. They knew that that would have ended in a blood bath and they were outnumbered, so they possibly would have lost many many officers and still not stopped the storming.

    4. Because despite all their bluster, the majority of those open-carry, MAGA!, “let’s storm the Capitol” people are cowards. We are lucky they didn’t hurt more people but we are also lucky more of them didn’t hurt themselves,as that is the demographic that dies at disproportional rates from accidental shootings.

       Make no mistake, I am grateful that things were not worse. But I watched the coverage with my husband and we turned to each other and said, at the same time, “What a bunch of yahoos.” It’s obvious that for all the bluster and tough talk and “let’s take back America” sentiments, that mob was nothing more, and nothing less, than a loose agglomeration of unorganized, incompetent losers who probably couldn’t have found their way out of the back of a shopping mall after closing time on their own steam. If that weren’t the case, the damage would have been worse and we would have seen people killed. I watched the coverage as they breached into the Capitol halls, and when I didn’t see guards being killed outright or people storming into the chambers of Congress and securing it for their takeover, I realized – this isn’t really a coup; this was not organized; these people had no plan. I have seen in the reporting that several of the rioters expressed surprise they were able to get that far. That doesn’t surprise me in the least; they never should have been able to get that far. The scary thing isn’t the mob; the scary thing is the utter failure of everyone involved in law enforcement at the Capitol (including, as I understand it, the mayor of DC) to secure the building and the perimeter of the building. That’s where we need to focus investigation and bring consequences to bear (and I know that is being done to some extent but not enough). There was an inside job of some sort that allowed that to happen. My true and honest belief is that Trump really did think those people had a plan and would take over the government to keep him installed as president, and was bitterly disappointed when he realized those people couldn’t organize a shoe-tying contest competently. He shouldn’t have been surprised but I imagine he was.

       I’m not trying to minimize what happened but if you study how violent coups have happened in other countries you’ll see the difference between those, and what happened at the Capitol. Usually the mob (or troops) move in and execute anyone who has power immediately, with no hesitation. In a real coup Pelosi, Schumer, Pence, etc. would have been located in the building, dragged out and executed publicly. In addition to lacking organizational skills, the yahoos in the riot lacked commitment (which is a good thing!). Look how many of them who have simply been arrested for unlawful entry are now backpedaling and either issuing tearful apologies or trying to claim “I was just looking for the bathroom,” “I was trying to stop other people,” etc. What I saw last week actually made me feel better, and worse, at the same time. With all the access to media and communication they have, they could create an assembly but they couldn’t organize that assembly into anything that posed any kind of reasonable threat to our democracy. That made me feel better. What made me feel worse is, the people we saw at the Capitol last Wednesday are not the people we need to worry about; the truly dangerous bad actors are still out there and probably plotting as we speak. I actually wonder if the riot at the Capitol was meant as a diversion (or will be used as such) and the real threat is still coming. Similar to how Timothy McVeigh came out of nowhere and bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City, I don’t think the threats we really need to worry about are going to come in the form of a guy in a Viking helmet and a painted face yelling about QAnon. I think it’s going to come from a lone terrorist or small group of them who do have planning skills, and are committed, doing some kind of surgical strike where it will really hurt us. I hope the FBI and local law enforcement squads are paying attention.

       1. I disagree with this: “It’s obvious that for all the bluster and tough talk and “let’s take back America” sentiments, that mob was nothing more, and nothing less, than a loose agglomeration of unorganized, incompetent losers who probably couldn’t have found their way out of the back of a shopping mall after closing time on their own steam.”

          The fact that the insurrection failed does not mean that there were not highly trained operatives, some of whom were ex-military, in its midst. There is evidence that some intended to take hostages. There is evidence that a faction of the group was poised for a “surgical strike” as you say. They failed – but it doesn’t mean that we write them off. It’s tempting to do so because then we don’t have to worry as much – I get that. It’s SO tempting to think it was all a bunch of morons and we can rest easy that they’re so incompetent. We can’t fall into that trap.

       2. I’m concerned that it’s too easy to downplay how much organization went into this. One of the reason so many yahoos were present is because their travel costs were covered! I think there were competent people present who probably achieved some of their objectives (stealing computers, for one). We also don’t know what would have happened if the evacuation hadn’t been successful, and it was a close call. It’s also not a good thing that our neighbors, even if they’re a bunch of yahoos, are ready to beat people to death in a mob and excited about the prospect of violence.

          1. +1. The guys in tactical gear carrying quick cuffs were not yahoos – they rehearsed this. It’s dangerous to dismiss the entire group out-of-hand.

             1. This. The video of the 8-10 guys in helmets and flak jackets moving in a coordinated way up the stairs through the crowd is super creepy.

                I think the yahoo’s actually got in the way for some of the terrorists who wanted to cause real problems. Basically the chaos got in the way. Someone on the inside 100% led ppl to Clyburn’s secret unmarked office and that is really scary. I also think Pence stayed in the building because it kept more secret service there and decreased the likelihood that senators/congress members would be taken vs if just capitol police were left to defend. Secret service are more highly trained.

             2. +1. Stuck in m0d for a long time but agree. Some of the crowd was highly trained, armed, and in the building with specific objectives. The fact that they were thwarted doesn’t make them safe.

             3. 12:04, can you post a link to the video? I’d like to show it to some people in my life who are downplaying the threat.

          2. I also think that groups like Proud Boys have learned to use incompetence and insincerity as a shield. Oh we just tried to change an election result by breaking into the Capitol and terrorizing Senators for the lulz! Boys will be boys. This is how they want us to see them because they’ve learned they can get away with things this way. “Can’t you take a joke?”

             Meanwhile, Oath Keepers, Three Percenters, and other groups were there too, many of whom are overrepresented in law enforcement (they are where I live in the SEUS). This is something we’ve been turning a blind eye to for years.

             1. All of this. The yahoos are a shield for organized terrorism. The more information that comes out, the more apparent it was how much organization there actually was – and how much more violent this was than was visible in the initial reporting.

          3. The rioters did not have “objectives” around stealing computers. They stole them because they were there. like they stole Pelosi’s speaker podium or anything else that wasn’t nailed down that they carried off. This is where I, as a liberal, am getting concerned about people not reading the news objectively. The incident wasn’t nothing but it also wasn’t the organized, planned, concerted attack on democracy that the New York Times would have us believe. If that was the case all of the rioters would have had zip ties, not just a couple of them. The mob got into the Capitol through a combination of luck, incompetence and some degree of bad action that has yet to be revealed. Don’t make it into something it’s not because that validates our feelings and predictions that Trump was dangerous. He was, and still is. I firmly believe the danger is still out there, this wasn’t it.

             P.s., given how this group reacted to news of the new disease that had been identified in China about this time last year? (Remember all those discussions about how there wasn’t going to be a pandemic and those of us who were worried were overreacting?) I don’t really think too highly of how people here evaluate information or interpret events. Sorry to say.

             1. Your P.S. is exactly where I’m at. This year really taught me that I can and should trust my own instincts. If I had followed the blithe advice of many on this board, I would probably be dead by now (hello, high-risk reality) and I think my own confidence would be destroyed.

             2. No one is saying that “this was it.” We’re saying it could have been a lot worse than it was, that it’s being downplayed a lot (which helps people who want to avoid consequences), and that we should be concerned about what happens next. I agree that the demographic here tends to downplay concerns when something departs from what’s normal, and I think it’s happening again. Meanwhile, I hear Trump is starting a rally tour and the MAGA crowds are assembling again.

       3. I don’t know…yes they are idiots but if Nancy Pelosi or AOC had been in the room, I think they would have been murdered.

          1. Yeah I agree with that, or taken hostage.

    5. Well, if I was Nany Pelosi, I probably would be wishing they shot up my office instead of pooping and rubbing it around and then peeing on my stuff….

14. I’ve been practicing yoga regularly at home for a while and want to get a pair of yoga blocks. Are they all basically the same or are there particular ones anyone would recommend? Foam or cork? Right now I mostly need them to support some restorative poses, like pigeon and fish, but will probably use them for things that involve balancing too, as I get a bit more advanced.

    1. I prefer the cork ones, because for balancing I feel more stable. But they are not as comfortable for restorative poses (I use a bolster for restorative poses). I have these which I got at the beginning of the pandemic, and they’re standard like the ones you see in the studio. Hold up well. Very sturdy. https://www.yogaoutlet.com/products/everyday-yoga-cork-yoga-block-standard-4-inch-8182947?color=natural&variant=14827661230115

    2. The foam ones are all basically the same. As long as the sizes are the same, even a mismatched pair is fine (that’s what I have).

       Cork is more variable IME. If you’re up for the expense, get denser cork ones for more pressure during your stretches and a little more stability for balancing. The only brand for this I have really used is Manduka, and I don’t like their mats but do like the blocks.

    3. Thank you both!

    4. I teach yoga, and I like foam blocks particularly for restorative poses. I really would not recommend cork blocks for restorative poses. Foam blocks are softer and much more comfortable than cork ones, and you can use them for balance support as well. Additionally, they’re really inexpensive and easy to get – you might as well start there. There’s a standard size that is most common; just get those. I’ve never owned cork blocks, don’t usually use them in studios, and do lots of balancing postures. :)

    5. I’ve owned both and prefer my foam blocks. My cork blocks were really heavy and had started to shed. For foam, I got the Everyday Yoga 4 Inch Foam Yoga Block Black and like them a lot.

15. Any recommendations for a type of exercise I can do inside my apartment? I’m on the top floor of an old walk up, so want to be mindful to my neighbors. Willing to invest in work out equipment, but space is limited. I’m completely our of shape and just hoping to get some endorphins flowing.

    1. TRX bands. You don’t need to do any jumping movements to get your heart rate up with them!

    2. You could try low impact workout videos or strength training. Fitness Blender has lots of free videos.

       1. Live in an apartment and this is what I do. Low impact strength and lots of yoga.

    3. I’ve been doing Yoga with Down Dog app for months now and it’s quiet (also in an apartment) and doesn’t take much space. Yoga with Adrienne videos on youtube are great too (and free), and she has lots of absolute beginner videos, but she talks too much for my taste, so I prefer the app where I can customize the level of talking :)

    4. I have been doing “walk at home”. fitness videos in my office at home. They are on you tube, you can walk an easy mile or do a 5 mile burn. They involve fast walking (in place) plus other moves.

    5. I live in a similar building and do the bodyweight strength, barre, and Pilates classes in the peloton app (no bike, so I pay ~$13/month but I imagine you can find similar things for free on YouTube or other sources). I only do classes with no equipment and know which instructors tend not to use jumping exercises, but if I get it wrong and there are burpees or other jumps I will replace with either a plank or squats. Still feel like it’s a good workout!

    6. Get some free weights for strength training! I would start with 3, 5, 8, 10, 12 pound weights. I like Peloton strength workouts.

16. Congresswoman Jayapal has tested positive for covid after being forced to hide in a room with male Republicans who refused to wear masks during the insurrection last week. I am seeing red. What can we do? Are there any legal remedies or fines or anything at all that can be done about their flagrant disregard for the lives of their fellow representatives during an emergency?

    1. Sadly, I wondered about this exact scenario happening. What a pack of a-holes.

    2. No idea but I’m f-ing pissed about this. She’s one of my reps and she’s awesome and this just really really sucks. Why couldn’t it have happened to McMorris-Rodgers?!

       1. As an eastern washington resident, I sadly concur.

       2. Did you see Shawn Vestal’s column in the Spokesman about her last week? Spot on.

          1. No, but I’ll have to check it out. Thx!

    3. You cannot control other people. The Democrats have had the House since January 2019 and can institute rules re: mask-wearing or can censure their colleagues.

       1. You can’t control other people but you can be legitimately pissed that they are flagrant selfish @$$holes with no regard for other people’s lives.

    4. I saw this, too, and I’m so mad (and worried! I hope she’ll be okay). She’s my congresswoman too. My main plan was to call with a get well message, which doesn’t do much, and ask if there’s a way to sue for reckless endangerment.

    5. if this were a regular workplace in CA, she could claim worker’s comp for being exposed. Have any other states expanded regulation for employer negligence?

    6. It’s not just Congresswoman Jayapal. It’s also Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman, a 75 year old Black lung cancer survivor who tested positive yesterday. It’s completely outrageous that women of color are yet again paying the price for white (mostly but not entirely) men’s actions. At least they were both vaccinated recently, so even if the immune response hasn’t fully kicked in yet, they may have a less severe case? (I’m a biologist, there’s really not data on this, so no way to know for sure, but it seems possible depending on how long it had between when they got vaccinated and when they got infected)

       1. God, I hope so. I hadn’t seen about Congresswoman Coleman at the time I posted this (as I said, I was seeing red), but it makes me sick to think of white male Republicans laughing and mocking a black Congresswoman for asking them to wear masks.

       2. Jeebus, this is horrific.

17. A while back someone posted about a rug store in Charlotte that they had gotten good rugs from. Can someone repost the name of the store? I did a google search, but no particular name rang a bell.

    1. I believe it was Rug Source. I ordered a rug from them this summer (I live nowhere near CLT) and had a great experience — nice rug for the price, great service, fast shipping.

18. Technical gift help, please! BLUF: 10YO DD wants a way to stream music in her room. She does not have (will not have) a phone or ipad.
    Background: We have sonos speakers throughout the living areas of our house (two floors) with an old iphone that can be used to drive the streaming, on each floor. These are so old that they only work if they are actively plugged in, LOL.
    DD’s bedroom is on the 3rd floor (currently sonos-less and iphone-less). She does not have a phone, ipod touch or ipad. We are only somewhat concerned with giving her something internet-accessible in her room… she knows that there would be MAJOR consequences for installing tiktok or listening to WAP for example :-) We just don’t want to spend a billion dollars on this setup.
    We’d be fine with a no-name bluetooth speaker – but still need something to drive the streaming. No additional near-death phones in the house. Thoughts, recommendations, alternatives?

    1. We have an Alexa set up in our 11-year-old’s room that basically streams from our family account.

    2. Alexa with Amazon Music or Spotify set up. You could get her one of the ones with the screen if that would be easier to navigate for music, I’m pretty sure you can’t look at social media or anything on there. And can probably set parent limits to avoid WAP.

    3. Are iPods not a thing anymore?

       1. Nope. Not the traditional kind that don’t also connect to the internet for games and messaging etc

       2. They still make the iPod Touch. You can use it to play downloaded music or stream and you can lock down other internet functionality pretty well.

       3. No, they stopped being manufactured some time ago. Some of them are now collector’s items actually, and are priced as such on eBay.

    4. Man, things are so much more complicated now. I got my first boombox at age 11 to listen to CDs!

    5. Get another Sonos speaker for her room, and let her use one of the old iphones to stream music to it. Shouldn’t be an issue with it on another floor. Does she have access to a computer that she could use to stream to it? (I suggest a Sonos because it will be easy to set up, and if you ever want to reconfigure your home audio it will be easiest if all your components are interchangeable)

    6. I kind of hate to say this: it sounds like you’re looking for a radio.

       1. Haha that was my first thought, too!

          How about a satellite radio?

       2. +1 this is where I land. But I’m also very anti smart devices in the home if it can at all be avoided.

    7. My 7 y/o has an Alexa dot in the playroom. “Alexa play [song]” and it’s on.

       If your kid specifically needs to craft a playlist, i think you can do this from the amazon music app. Accessible via computer as well I assume.

    8. Look into mighty audio. It’s a streaming device that connects with spotify. You can control playlists through your phone–but DD can take the mighty and listen via earphones or bluetooth speaker. Very functional and limited.

       1. Yes. This is what my husband uses running. You basically download your Spotify onto it or stream your Spotify via it. She can manage her Spotify account on your computer or phone with your supervision.

    9. I’d give her one of the old iPhones and a Bluetooth speaker in her room. Leave one downstairs and then use your/ your husbands phone for the other set up.

       Shes probably (I’m guessing ) not too far from having a phone herself, so it could be a good opportunity to discuss safe internet usage. A new iPod touch could also work – set the ground rule that it’s meant for music and not internet but also it can be a tool for safe internet usage.

       As a child of the early 00s, my parents were pretty strict and I grew up pretty sheltered and I think it’s a really tough balance. The internet is much scarier now than it was back then, but no or very limited phones/iPads/internet access, even at her age can be isolating.

    10. She literally just needs a bluetooth speaker in her room and a spotify account. Take any old phone, even one of those cheap Walmart phones, delete all the apps you don’t want her to have access to, download a bunch of spotify playlists, password lock the app store (and wifi). She can stream music from a dumbed down phone on bluetooth only. Update the spotify playlist occasionally

        I have the Soundlink Micro Bluetooth speaker (less than $100) which is very small (about 5 inches wide and two inches tall) and has exceptional sound clarity, loudness, and base and it’s rechargeable. I could use it as the primary speaker for my living areas if I didn’t have another Bose.

    11. We have a bose soundtouch speaker that has preset numbers that are connected to our pandora account. We can set up which ones we want to play and then it will just stream music. You could also set up a specific playlist and play without a computer if you use a NAS drive.

19. For lawyers, would you consider an LLM in tax essential to working in tax law? Or, rather, will partners with LLMs really accept someone without one? Debating whether I need to be another 100K in debt to really work in this area (when any other area just considers a JD to be enough).

    1. I know someone who decided to get an LLM because he was having trouble finding a legal job post-recession. He did get it, got a job at a Big 4 accounting firm, and I think likes it, but he has over $500K in debt. I haven’t spoken to him in a while but I’m not sure he’d say it’s worth it.

    2. I do not think it’s essential. I’ve practice in tax law for 15 years and do not have an LLM. I do think, however, it can be a helpful way to get into a large law firm and/or a large accounting firm if that is your goal. You can definitely get in it without it, but it seems it can open more doors.

    3. I know lots of attorneys who do tax without LLMs. Anecdotally I also know someone with a JD from a bottom of the barrel law school, and a LLM from a top ranked law school, and ended up getting a biglaw job that would have been unlikely had he not gotten the LLM

    4. I practice tax law and do not have an LLM. Some firms require an LLM and some do not. Generally, I found that the partners with LLMs think it essential, and the ones without consideration a JD sufficient. Not having an LLM closes some doors, but there are plenty of firms that hire JDs.

    5. Tax attorney here. Meh state law school, fancy tax LLM. The LLM opened doors for me that my state law school wouldn’t have, but part of that was also location (I wanted to do X; interned for X while getting my LLM; X doesn’t exist in home state — cue entry into desired field).

       I worked at a Big Four briefly after LLM and can tell you you absolutely do not need an LLM to work there if that’s your goal. Entry level jobs at a B4 are very, VERY elementary – something an intelligent 15 year old can do – and because of their lock-step system, you’ll be staring at the same Excel sheet for two years before you’re allowed to do anything more complicated. If you can walk and chew gum at the same time, you’ll be hired. I left because I was doing too much Excel and hardly any law, but that was my team – might be better on another team.

20. Looking for recommendations for therapists that specialize in infertility for both my husband and I. We are in NOVA.

    1. Can you give a few more details about your case, I.e., what the issue is? Also, I’m not in the DC area but DCUM has a super helpful infertility board that you might want to search or post on if you don’t get recs here.

       1. Thanks, I will check that out! Male infertility in our case with likely no chance of a biological child for DH. He is struggling.

          1. I’m so sorry, that sounds so hard. Definitely try posting there, someone may have some useful suggestions.

       2. Reddit’s infertility forum is also extremely helpful (with a strong emphasis on avoiding cutesy phrasing/internet speak, which I appreciated).

    2. We see Amy Scott for similar issues and really like her. She her practice is not focused on infertility but she’s been much better about dealing with these issues than anyone else we’ve seen. (Been dealing with this for many years and have seen a range of providers.)

       Infertility is incredibly hard and for us pops up in surprising and unpredictable ways. You’re in my thoughts.

21. DC ‘rettes- what are you doing to prep for next week? We filled up our cars with gas, gathered up some food, and made a list of things I would pack up if we had to leave. But…not sure where we would go. Our families live many states away.

    1. You’ve got to figure out where you would go. Pick a destination based on accessibility and traffic and make a plan. Prepping the car with gas means nothing if you are confused and disoriented when you get in. This is what we did for wildfire season out west and I felt significantly less anxious when we made a clear plan and back-up plan for where we would drive.

    2. This is a half-joke, but when we lived in NOVA our neighbor would always back into his parking space (open lot, not a garage). He said he’d have the advantage if everyone was trying to leave at the same time and reversing into each other – he could just peel out.

       I think a scenario that would call for evacuation is unlikely – I think a strict curfew or stay-at-home order is much more probable. I’d make sure I had food/toiletries/prescriptions for the week, keep my phone charged, and test my radio. And keep some cash on hand if you typically don’t.

       1. no need to joke. FEMA has backing into your driveway as standard advice for disasters where the need to evacuate quickly may arise.

       2. We call backing into parking spaces “Ranger ready” in my family.

    3. General prep advice: buy a hard copy of a map.

    4. It’s extremely unlikely you will need to leave the city unless you are very close to the Capitol but it is very likely that it may be smart to stay off the streets for the 17th, 20th and possibly other days. Make sure you have food and supplies (diapers, medicine, toilet paper etc) if you need to stay inside for 4-5 days.

    5. Honestly? Nothing. I’m already barely leaving the house and have everything I need here. If it weren’t a pandemic I would just go on vacation, but I’m not going to be scared into leaving my home when there’s really nowhere to go.

       1. +1, I’m 3 miles away from the Capitol and just staying put

    6. We’re making sure we have food for the week so we don’t have to leave the apartment, but other than that we’re not planning anything. Not criticizing your plans or feelings in any way, just giving another data point. Be well and crossing my fingers!

    7. Here are some ideas:
       – call and make a (refundable) reservation at a hotel a reasonable distance away
       – figure out which family you would drive to
       – figure out which friend living closer than family you could drive to immediately, then sit in their garage/basement/breezeway and make additional plans.

       If you have pets, upload their vax records to the cloud. If you have kids that go to school, make sure they have their computers etc. loaded up. If you have young kids, make sure you are stocked on diapers/formula etc.

    8. My high school was the closest high school to the Pentagon and many of the students had parents who worked there. On 9/11, it was difficult to get a line out to call to check on loved ones. Our school didn’t let us leave early because they didn’t want a bunch of newly licensed drivers on the roads, potentially getting in the way of emergency responders.

       If you’re close enough to potential targets to be worried about safety at home, leave ahead of time. If you’re far enough that you just need to stay home, then get what you need to stay home for awhile.

       If you have children, think about where they’ll be and how quickly you can get them if necessary. Ask their school about plans and, if they’re locked down, if you’ll be able to pick up your children during the lock down.

    9. This isn’t helpful for you, but I’m at our beach house. First I left because my heart hurt too badly to be in my city, and I’ve stayed away as it seemed like a good thing to do.

       I think if you’re in the suburbs, you’re fine. I’d only be worried if I lived in DC proper, particularly the areas at the edge of Capitol Police protection where there might not be good coordination with other authorities. But I heard there are 5,000 National guardsmen, so maybe there’s nothing to worry about. I’m genuinely afraid for state capitals though – very much so.

       1. yep, im in DC proper

       2. We’re in DC proper, close the Capitol, and I think we’re staying. Will have a full tank of gas, but I would think after the debacle last week and the troops pouring in there isn’t necessarily a safer place.

          1. Same. I live on Capitol Hill, though about a mile from the actual building. I dunno, until today I hadn’t heard of anyone actually leaving. Now a friend told me that they rented an Airbnb in Shenandoah for the week, and another friend is going to the outer banks for the weekend (though coming back on Tuesday, more of a mental reset than escaping inauguration). I’ve seen on a local blog they are now doing a poll of who’s staying and going.
             We are lucky I suppose in that we have family in NOVA, so we could always leave here and go over there. We’re very close to the highway, so that would be quick as long as the roads stay open. But I have to say I agree with anonymous at 1:32 that the massive display of national guard already here makes me think the risk to civilians is low. I would be more worried about what will be happening in state houses (and maybe this coming weekend on 1/17) than I would be about a mob on inauguration day. I am, however, still nervous about some sort of gunman attack during inauguration proper or a bomb being planted. Those things wouldn’t be likely to impact me in my house, but would be catastrophic for the country. Everything feels sad and awful, but I think home is still probably the best place.

22. I’m looking for a good sleeveless top (either a shell or knit, preferably about 21-23 inches in length) to wear under blazers and cardigans, but I’m having trouble finding one that’s in between a high crew neck and a scoop neck. Basically, I think a crew neck is not flattering on me, but I don’t want it low cut either because I’d like it to be work appropriate. I have broad shoulders, so sleeveless works better for me. Any suggestions? I’m looking for a black one so this should be not hard but I’m coming up empty.

    1. https://www.nordstrom.com/s/halogen-scoop-neck-woven-shell/5387706?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FTops&fashioncolor=Black&color=black

    2. https://www.belk.com/p/calvin-klein-pleated-neck-sleeveless-blouse/1100078CSE1676D.html

       1. I have this one and it’s great.

    3. Try some boat neck styles. They are generally a little lower than crew, and the wider neck gives a more open look even under a cardi or jacket.

23. Ladies who have been at firms for the long haul, can you give me all your best tips as I transition from government? I was in biglaw years ago but it’s been a long time. I’m now starting at a litigation boutique in a senior counsel position after a long stint in govt so I would love all best practices tips, especially around billable hours (since I haven’t had to do that in years). Thank you!

24. DH (7th year BigLaw senior associate) was told that he will not be making partner, and needs to leave the firm by the summer. DH is a K – HYS JD who’s always done extremely well academically and has never worked any other professional job so he’s CRUSHED. He’s been reaching out to his network for senior associate roles in small / mid sized firms but it’s not getting him anywhere.
    Secretly, and very selfishly, I’m disappointed as well – I left BigLaw to go in-house 2 years ago just as we were TTC because I had an idea in my head that I had to step back into a more flexible position while DH goes on to make partner, but we have still no baby, and now DH has no job. DH is still responsible for many big projects and is still stressed out which is not helping matters at all.
    I know conventional wisdom tells me I shouldn’t worry incessantly, be supportive to DH; we’re not overstretched by any means, DH is a wonderful husband and know I should focus on the positives. But I can’t help being worried about our future and what this curveball means for us.
    Any tips for dealing with disappointment? Or job hunting tips for a 7th year litigator, lol.

    1. So first off, I very much understand that this is stressful given that you all didn’t expect it and made decisions about your career based on the expectation that he would make partner. Don’t feel badly.

       Second, is the firm offering him any outplacement assistance? Do they have an internal job board? Typically there’s some effort to help folks who won’t make partner find another position, because having them end up jobless looks bad to younger associates. Also, he should have a direct conversation with whatever partner he has the closest relationship with about work expectations during this time – he needs to prioritize job searching, and at least at my old firm, there would have been an understanding that he’d spend a good portion of the workday each day doing just that.

       What market are you all in and what sort of litigation does he do?

    2. As someone who has been through a winding path to get to a partner position, I’ve been there. It’s demoralizing and can really mess with your head. In addition to being worried about my career, I also felt like I was letting down my spouse/family. To the extent you can, keep being supportive to your husband. Yes, I know that this doesn’t look like you thought it would and maybe there are things that you think he could have done differently. Do you have a close friend or someone else that you can talk to about your own disappointment and anxiety about the situation so at least you can process it with someone else who isn’t so financially and emotionally invested in this outcome?

    3. Large companies in litigious industries have in house litigation departments that could be a good fit.

       1. +1 to this. Plus if you’re in house you could put him in touch with contacts, presumably.

    4. Keep looking at those boutique small firms. We love big law transplants. You will take a pay cut but he will have a much higher quality of life. Most of those small firms don’t really have a partnership track per se. At least at mine, there is the owner and the rest of us are just “attorneys.” We just hired a first year and she is called an associate but other than that, we have never had titles. We get a salary plus a percentage of our receivables.

25. Is it possible to live a decent middle-class life anywhere in the greater Boston area on an HHI of $250-$275K/year? Assume home ownership with a down payment of $150K, the need to be zoned for a top public high school, maxing two 401Ks, and non-housing budget of $8K – 9K/month including very aggressive cash savings for private college. No family help to pay for a home purchase “in cash.” No student loans. No social connections. I don’t think this is possible, but if so please persuade me.

    1. Adding: more interested in the western suburbs out to 495 than in northern or southern suburbs.

       1. Um, yes you can afford it? I see plenty of nice homes that you can easily afford in Boxborough, for one. I am sure you can find many more places with more than a cursory Zillow search.

          1. Those are all senior condos.

             1. I can assure you that Boxborough has plenty of condos that are not senior condos.

                Including Boxborough, try Acton, Harvard (the town), Maynard, Lexington, Concord, Needham, Newton, Winchester, and maybe Lincoln or Sudbury. That said, per my below comment, she’s well over the median HHI in Wellesley and likely in every town in Massachusetts.

                The OP would also have a much easier time of this if she were willing to go north or south. Also, her needs for a “top” school district may be unnecessary; while some of the very snobby towns provide a private-school like education, most school districts in Massachusetts are blowing the doors of the rest of the country.

    2. Yes it is. You just have a crazily overinflated idea of what a decent middle class life is.

       1. +1

          As someone who makes 60k a year and feels comfortable, this kind of question always makes me laugh.

          1. Single parent with HHI ~90k in NYC and I live a decent middle class (but not upper class!) life, max out retirement accounts, and feel comfortable. My after-housing spending is under $2k a month most months, and I have a housekeeper every other week. I don’t even know how I could possibly spend $8-9k a month after housing — what are you guys buying?!

             1. We need $280K for private college, so it’s mostly cash savings.

             2. Correction – you WANT 280k for private college. You don’t need it. There will obviously be trade offs if if that is what you are prioritizing.

             3. Why are you fully paying for private college for your kids? No guarantee your kid is going to want to go to a private college or will get in.

             4. I am in the suburbs of a SEUS city, and my family of 3 spends $8K/month. Our mortgage is $2200. Health insurance for DH and our son is $1000, and we have OOP medical expenses that average $800/month. We spend about $1100 on childcare, $1200 on other bills (utilities, cell phone, car insurance), $1200 on groceries and takeout, and the remaining $700 split between stuff like gas, clothes, haircuts, home maintenance, booze, gifts, entertainment, cat food and litter and vet visits, and miscellaneous stuff.

             5. If you can pay for private college out of pocket, you’re not ´middle class

                Signed,
                Grew up with blue collar parents and have student loans

             6. Agree with Anon at 1:26. I’ll take it a step further, I would consider my upbringing upper class / upper middle class and had student loans. The area I grew up in frequently makes lists about the wealthiest zip codes and I know very few people whose parents were able to cash fund their college.

          2. + 1… that sounds like very upper-class to my middle-class self.

             1. +1. “Pew Research defines middle-income Americans as those whose annual household income is two-thirds to double the national median (adjusted for local cost of living and household size). For a family of three, that ranges from $40,100 to $120,400 for 2018 incomes.”
                You’ll be fine OP!

       2. Like, welcome to Newton. Where you can afford the down payment on this mansion. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/68-Hartford-St-Newton-MA-02461/56313201_zpid/

          1. That is exactly what I’m afraid of.

             1. Afraid of? I thought that’s what you wanted?

             2. How about this, then? https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/18-Forbes-Rd_Hudson_MA_01749_M94295-23874

             3. It needs a gut reno. Full of graffiti.

             4. I’m sorry my rapid Zillowing was dissatisfactory!

                I like this one:
                https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24-Charles-St-Wellesley-MA-02481/56613005_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

                This condo is huge and gorgeous:
                https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/27-Oak-St-27-Needham-MA-02492/2076710260_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

                Lovely and in a great neighborhood:
                https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10-Durant-Rd-Wellesley-MA-02482/56619610_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

             5. Afraid of? The house is beautiful, has great bones and needs some work (saw some water damage). It does not need a full gut, nor is it full of graffiti (it’s like two places in the kitchen!) The only thing you’d need to do is address the water damage and paint or refinish the kitchen cabinets (the only graffiti, very minor. Kitchen cabinets are easily a DIY). I’d choose to paint the walls (DIY so it’s $50 and an afternoon per room). Maybe some cosmetic stuff with the kitchen floor and cabinet and the bathroom floor/tub (great tile though) but that doesn’t have to be ASAP. Longer term I’d refinish floors and change the drop ceiling. But really the house is FINE.

                You need a serious gut check. I also don’t think you know what middle class is… I grew up middle class and it’s no $225k HHI even in a HCOL area.

          2. Many, many people around the world would be happy to live in that house.

          3. Ha! I think my friend lived in that house while she was in college! The kitchen is so familiar!

       3. Okay, rephrasing the question. How much does it cost per month to own a home 1500-2500 square feet that is not nasty and falling apart in a good school district in the Greater Boston area, including taxes and things like condo fees? We moved away years ago because we couldn’t afford any home there, even one that was nasty and falling apart, and even if we didn’t save at all for retirement and college.

          1. I owned a 1,500 SF home in Wakefield. 3 BR/2 BA, ugly as sin on the exterior and the interior hadn’t been updated since 1980s but systems were solid and the house was very clean (albeit dated). It was the first home we owned and we made $100,000 on the resell after a 4-year hold with only light cosmetic improvements. Paid $420,000 in 2015 and sold in 2019. Taxes were about $6k/year? We had a postage stamp lot, less than 1/4 acre. Decidedly not a forever home.

             Moved to Reading from there. Bought a home for about $850,000 in 2019. 3,000 SF and RET are almost $10k/year. Almost an acre and we love it. I don’t know if this is truly forever but it certainly could be.

             Neither had a top performing public school (not a top 10) but solid – Reading more so than Wakefield and we could send kids there without issue. I don’t know if we will, but we could. Proximity to Boston was very important as we both work downtown. I also appreciate the considerably higher level of diversity (mostly socioeconomic than racial) than the very popular South Shore town I grew up in with better schools and way higher property values. I’d pick Reading over that community any day of the week.

             1. I grew up in Reading. The schools used to be a lot better. They are still, being in Massachusetts and quite solid, very good compared to most public schools in America; however, they are not what they were 20 years ago.

          2. The one I just posted is estimated to run about $5700 a month.

             If you have income of 250000 and a 150000 down payment, there are homes. Stop being so dramatic about how poor you are when you are rich.

             1. Thank you for saying it. People on this board need a serious reality check.

          3. We live in Wayland in a Large $900k home on a HHI of ~$320k. We could swing a more expensive house if we wanted.

             3 kids, no connections, graduated with student debt, $1M saved for retirement.

             You are being a weird drama llama about your perceived poverty. There are homes for $500k in towns with good schools. You can afford those.

          4. Westford, Harvard, north reading are all good options

       4. Yeah… middle class with an HHI of over 200k? Even in a place with a HCOL that’s a ton of money! I’m not sure you understand what middle class is!

          1. Exactly. Op is not looking for middle class.

             1. +1 this is not middle class living at all. Or even upper class. Plenty of upper class people don’t plan to have 280k saved for their kids college…

    3. We lived in Boston (Cambridge) on $50K combined, then $88K, and eventually maxed out at $140K. We did not own property, we had savings, we traveled to Europe and ate out frequently, went skiing, and generally lived very well. We could have made our dollar go farther if we had lived off the Red Line, but chose not to. You do have an overinflated sense of what is needed to have a good life in the “greater Boston area.” Most people do not make $250K+ and they are fine.

       1. Mrs Frugalwoods, is that you? :)

          1. Of course it’s not. They owned property and made far more than my husband and I did. I love her though!

    4. Oh good grief. The average HHI in Wellesley is $188,000 a year.

    5. You’re getting some flak but I’ll give you some similar thoughts we’ve had. We live in Boston, no kids yet but hope for several over next few years, and will likely have similar income to what you’re describing long term in our careers. The TLDR is that: yes, we have determined it’s doable for us. More details below.

       West of 495, very doable. Belt between 128 and 495, I think will feel tight in the very good public school zones (the W towns, Concord, Lexington, etc). What we see among our friends is that those making this general amount of money are either planning to pay for all of their kids’ college educations + fully funding their own retirement accounts and find it financially tight; while those who are not planning to fully pay for kids college and/or are not saving aggressively for retirement are living the high life on this salary. We are in the former group, it sounds like you may be too. With our friends, we often find that the New England-natives are more often in the former category and transplants are more often in the latter category: our various groups of friends express these habits differently and so some friend groups are way more oriented around potlucks and grilling in the back yard and others around fancy dinners at newest restaurants. We are hoping to buy a well-maintained but not-updated ~2000 sq ft, 3 bedroom home in one of those “very good school” towns listed above in the next few years, and we anticipate that it will cost ~1M. We expect that we may not ever financially feel comfortable enough to move up to a substantially nicer home. We also expect that we will live more frugal lifestyles: e.g., daycare + babysitter rather than nanny, fewer vacations and simpler ones, no elite sports teams, Hondas/Toyotas rather than Volvos. These are “sacrifices” for some people, but for us they are tradeoffs we are happy with. Hope our perspective helps you develop your own!

       1. Thank you.

       2. Totally agree with the above. But what you describe is not a “middle class” life.

          1. +1

    6. Wow, this totally did not go the way I expected. Usually when people post similar questions about the Bay Area, the answer is “don’t even think of it unless you make $500k and have $2M in cash to buy a house.”

       1. You seem to have very strong opinions about what’s going to be acceptable to you. Did you actually want advice or are you just venting?

       2. Truly no idea what you expected. Plenty of us currently live here on less than you and are fine. You seem actively hostile to that idea. If you don’t want to live in the Boston suburbs feel free not to! Housing certainly isn’t cheap. But you’re presenting this as impossible which is just obviously untrue.

       3. The Bay Area is an entirely different kettle of fish – housing costs are 60%-75% higher in SF than in Boston.

          I will, gently, push back on the idea that you must fully fund private college for your children. Maybe you can do that, but it would require shifting your priorities for your home.

          1. Ayup. Outside of Manhattan, the Bay Area is the most expensive area in the nation. Having directly compared housing prices when I was comparing jobs between Boston and Bay Area, Bay Area ~1.5 Boston.

             Even still housing prices are exaggerated here frequently- we got a deal on our house (because we put a no contingency offer in on the first day it was on sale) and live a lower upper class existence with our 1XX,XXX income.

             Gently, you count as upper class even in the Bay Area, and if you cannot figure out how to fit your living expenses in your salary, you’re misattributing some non-essentials as essentials.

       4. The average price of a SFH in San Francisco is $1.7 million, compared to $1.0M in Needham, MA. Did you expect that you would get the same responses?

       5. Gently, the Bay Area is not Boston. Different cities and suburbs have different COL. I feel like you’re being a bit defensive. None of the things you mentioned are “necessary.” It’s fine for you to want the top school and private college, but you don’t also get to b*tch and moan that you have to move to the icky suburbs to get them.

       6. I live in Palo Alto. Even here, $500k/year and $2 million in cash available for a down payment is rich, not middle class. You might think that being rich should afford you more luxury than what that buys you here, but it’s still rich.

    7. We make $290-350k/year HHI and have a very nice house in a spendy suburb and 3 kids.

       There are homes for sale that would be great family homes in the $550-600k range which I would say is doable with your income. Do you need specific towns? Check out Acton, Beverly, Holliston, Melrose. If you are OK in a smaller, more dated home in a town with large homes, Sudbury, Wayland, Hingham and Needham all have 3+ BR homes under $600k, you just have to be a bit more compromise on what you get for your money.

       Do you want to live in a 2900sq ft single family in Wellesley? Well, no, that’s not possible on your income.

       You should also be realistic about what houses cost and what you can afford to spend on housing. Do you/will you have kids in daycare? Will they be going at the same time?

       1. This is super helpful. Thank you. Yes, I was looking for specific towns or a “nope, not possible.” No day care costs, but as mentioned above we are saving quite aggressively for college and retirement so that is a limiting factor in the budget. We are looking for a newer or recently renovated home with central A/C and forced air heat. Acton/Boxborough is a good lead.

          1. Acton has good schools but they are getting to be more competitive/Newton-like in their parental academic arms race, just FYI. Will you be WFH or going into Boston? Check out the train schedules (right now very minimal bc covid) – it is a long commute. (Source: I live a couple towns out past Acton)

             1. One spouse would WFH, the other would commute. The commute is a concern and is one of the reasons we left back in the day. Good to know about Acton schools. The kid wants academic rigor and advanced coursework but we are not interested in the whole Varsity Blues scene.

          2. One quick thought if you’re still reading: central AC is pretty uncommon in New England, and likely even more so at your price range.

             1. We live in the Boston burbs and had it installed / retrofitted into our 4BR/2.5BA 3000sq ft house built in 1965. It was $20k. totally a thing you can add to a house if you find one you like.

    8. Yes. You will need to buy a starter home that needs work if you are in Newton – if you go further out there are plenty of places. See this cute place in Wayland https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/16-Oak-Hill-Rd_Wayland_MA_01778_M40704-89120

       1. Thank you! Adding Wayland to the list.

          1. There is nothing “middle class” about Wayland. I live here and I love it but you are going to be laughed at by anyone that knows the area if you move here and call yourself “middle class.”

             Paying cash for your kids private college is not really a thing people in the middle class can afford to do, so perhaps it’s just a matter of tweaking the way you talk about the lifestyle you are thinking of.

       2. That’s a starter home???

    9. OP – I submitted a response a while ago that has not posted. Check back later – it’s about the tradeoffs we have come to terms with in the same situation.

    10. How far out are you willing to go? I know people that commute from the Southcoast (New Bedford, Fall River, Taunton.) While those towns don’t have the school district you want, the surrounding communities do. Think Middleboro, Lakeville, Freetown, Dartmouth, Berkley, Dighton, Plymouth. If you went on the Middleboro side, you would be right near the commuter rail.

        1. HA! I live in one of these towns mentioned. Make $110K, and I’m very much upper class here.

           1. Oh, I agree that she will be the richest person in town. I’m just responding to her question of where to get a home and a “middle class lifestyle” arguably commuting distance to Boston. I grew up in Freetown. Waives. It has certainly moved up in the world since when I was in middle school, likely due to the commuter rail in Lakeville.

26. Online or easily share-able wish list apps/s!tes? I’d like this to be free and easy for my spouse to check. Am@zon isn’t doing it for me even though I know that theoretically I can add stuff from other non-Am@zon places.

    1. DH and I literally have a FB DM where we send each other links to stuff we want; it doesn’t get much easier haha

    2. I use myregistry dot com all the time. I just keep a running list for me and the kids. You can add anything from anywhere, even manually. It is great.

    3. How about a shared Google doc? My take is to use whatever is simplest.

       1. +1 This is how we manage our shared grocery/household wish lists (right now it includes “en suite light fixture” and “flooring samples”)

27. How to write my annual self-evaluation when work has just been slow because of the pandemic? Most of my work is helping internal clients with their projects, and since they didn’t get set up on WHF, I was spinning my wheels. A little bit of quantifiable training and a lot of webinars. Unfortunately my boss gives us numbers that are unusually low for the organization :(, so usually I try to counteract the effect of that with writing about verifiable achievements but…

28. Does anyone have any good shower cap recs or tips for keeping your hairline dry when you shower? I’ve previously been washing my hair every morning, but I want to try a different schedule. My hair is curly/wavy, so it is much more crucial that my hairline stays dry.

    1. The Shhhowercap

       1. + 1 and I also use a stretchy cloth hairband under the cap

29. Does anyone find that the Power Bobble is breaking your hair or causing split ends? I feel like this is happening to me, and I am wondering if it is because I put them in when my hair is wet/damp. I used to use clips, but I found them to be causing breakage as well. Does anyone have any advice on how to best pull back wet or damp hair?

    Actually, if you have any tips to reduce breakage at all, that would be great. I see a lot of things on YT, and I sort of roll my eyes because it doesn’t seem like the tip would make much difference. I never had split end issues until I got to be about 36 and went off birth control, have never dyed my hair, use an iron on it once every several years, etc., so this is all new to me.

    1. How long is your hair and how frequently do you get your hair cut? To prevent split ends you need to get regular trims.

    2. Pulling back damp or wet hair definitely can cause breakage. I’ve noticed that with my young daughter, so I don’t think it’s an age thing.

    3. Brushing or tying back wet hair causes breakage.

    4. Well, that explains it. I try to keep it off my skin when it is damp, because my skin is sensitive and breaks out due to contact w/hair product. Life is complicated. I guess I will try the fabric covered bobbles next.

       1. Can’t you just wear it wrapped in a towel until you dry it?

          1. I have curly hair, so I have to put the product in very wet hair, and then I can’t completely dry it. I don’t go anywhere, and I haven’t gotten a haircut in a year so I have been putting it up while it dries.

       2. Could you find unscented hair products? I find it’s the scent that causes break outs.

30. Honest question: Given the state of everything — Washington D.C. in particular — why are we moving forward with an inauguration ceremony? Would that be an admission that the domestic terrorists have won? It’s a dangerous situation already, and I don’t have high hopes that any security is going to be enough to keep the crazies away.

    1. Sorry, skipped an important word. Would *canceling* it be an admission that the domestic terrorists have won?

       1. Yes. Because the peaceful transfer of power is part of Who We Are as Americans. Read up on Washington’s resignation, when Adams turned over to Jefferson, etc.

       2. Yes. Fairly obviously

    2. I am fairly confident that if the combined might of the US police state cannot keep the inauguration safe from a fascist mob, we have no future left as a country.

       1. Yup. I’m sure that even if another mob overtook the inauguration, we’d still hear a lot of talk about “don’t overblow it” and “it was just a bunch of losers” and “let’s tone down the rhetoric.” What is it going to take to get people to pay attention and to use their own eyes, ears, and intellect to assess a dangerous situation?

          1. My favorite is the alt right news eco system claiming the fascists from last time were somehow antifa. Exhausting

    3. I think we should move forward with the ceremony, but I also think Roberts should swear Biden in at 12:01 a.m. (publicly) so that Biden has control of DOD, DHS, and DOJ throughout the day. The ceremony can be a formality. Obama was sworn in twice–the first time, during the ceremony, and later “just in case” since Roberts flubbed it the first time.

       1. Yes, I think he and Harris should be sworn in at the earliest possible moment, and INSIDE the building, so that in case somebody decides to take a shot at them during the ceremony, at least the line of succession is clear.

          1. That’s literally unconstitutional per the Twentieth Amendment:
             “Section 1
             The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.”

             Isn’t it your job to know this stuff, Senior Attorney?

             1. 1. No, it’s not my job. I work in state court.
                2. “Earliest possible moment,” obviously meaning “earliest possible LEGAL moment.” Key point being inside the building.

                But rock on with the mean girl stuff.

       2. I am worried about these people storming the Supreme Court and putting the justices’ lives in danger, esp John Roberts. (I mean, not that any justice being in danger is acceptable, of course.) I wonder how much security he and his loved ones have right now.

    4. I would do it indoors with the bare minimum number of people. Is there a requirement that the inauguration take place in a certain location?

       1. No. LBJ was sworn in on an airplane after JFK was shot. There is no requirement it be a specific location.

    5. Are they doing a parade like in years past? Seems dangerous. I’m afraid for Biden/Harris and their families.

       1. Biden had already indicated he would scale down the in person events and cut or greatly reduce any parade weeks ago due to the pandemic.

    6. Inauguration security is a whole ‘nother ballgame compared to what we saw last week at the Capitol. Even without last week’s events, the entire area around (for maybe 10 blocks in each direction) and between the White House and the Capitol is shut down for the inauguration. No parking. No one in the office buildings. Enter the perimeter only through security checkpoints (bag checks, metal detectors). So many cops, national guard, etc. No way for the nut jobs to bring in all the guns, “flag poles”, etc. that they did last week. This year it will all be shut down, but there isn’t a viewing area officially, due the pandemic, so no-one will be allowed in. It will seem lonely and extreme, but the security footprint will be the normal one, just with no people. The crazies can try to gather, but after last week’s “let’s not go overboard with security – the optics aren’t good” fiasco, I think they will find the police a lot more aggressive.

       I was very impressed that the “counter protestors” heeded the call to stay home last week. I know many people feel that if they aren’t personally doing something they are complicit, but the situation would have been so much worse if there were real (not Fox News) questions as to which group was responsible for what.

31. When is it time to step back from a friendship?

    I ask because I’ve recently gone through a difficult time with a friend of over a decade. For some background on our friendship: we became BFFs in college and were virtually inseparable. We lived together for years and went through tons of ups and downs together. Even though I moved away for grad school, we’ve seen each other a couple of times since then and have kept in touch via regular phone calls, facetimes, texts, and social media. I was supposed to visit her over the summer but ultimately had to cancel my trip due to the strict quarantine regulations in her state and the fact that I couldn’t get a COVID test in my state that would give results within 72 hours of my flight (everywhere I called had a 5 day turnaround time for results – her family members in another state were able to get test results quickly due to the face that they work in healthcare, but I was unable to in my state). She said she was disappointed by that, but she understood. She sent me a birthday card in August that said she considered me family and like a sister and I’ve taught her so much about true friendship and loyalty, etc.

    She got engaged in July and when we FaceTimed to catch up about her engagement, she said she wanted me to be a bridesmaid and we talked about who else would be in the bridal party. Her wedding isn’t until next fall, so I didn’t think it was weird that I hadn’t heard any updates about the bridal party, but then right before Christmas I saw she posted a bunch of Instagram stories of her bridal party accepting gifts from her and how excited she was. I reached out to her and just mentioned that she had told me she wanted to be in the bridal party before and I felt confused after seeing her Instagram posts. She told me that she had planned to let me know she changed her mind but I reached out to her before she could initiate the convo (at this point, the posts had been up for 12 – 16 hours or more – it’s not like I texted her minutes after she posted). I took a day to think about it, and I told her that while I understood her decision, it hurt to find out via Instagram instead of hearing it from her directly, especially since we usually text every week or so. She pretty much turned the whole thing around on me and said that our friendship has changed and she doesn’t see me at that level of friend anymore to be in her bridal party and that we can have a conversation one day about how we both want our friendship to be. (Just as a note: I would never have expected to be a bridesmaid, but she is the one who brought up she wanted me to be in the bridal party).

    I guess I’m just kind of confused because I feel like I am a good friend and have dealt with a bunch of poor treatment from her over the past decade and I’ve just thought “this is just how she is” and that you are friends with people through the good times and bad. She struggled in school and I went above and beyond to assist her with her schoolwork, even once I was in the workforce and she was still in school. There have been multiple periods of our friendship where she has just gone off the grid for months at a time and didn’t respond to texts or calls, but then when she has needed me, I have been there when she called. She usually apologizes for these disappearances and says she just needed time to herself. There have been trivial fights too, like she got really upset once when my ex accidentally bought me a handbag she owned (he had no idea she owned it) and she accused me of copying her and trying to be like her (I ended up exchanging the purse anyway). Then again, I used to drink a lot in undergrad, and she was there for me during some messy situations I got myself in with alcohol (nothing criminal or nefarious, just kind of being a mess), so I feel somewhat indebted to her. DH wants me to be done with the friendship because he believes she doesn’t treat me well and that we don’t need the stress in our lives. I agree with him on some levels but I also can’t imagine ending my longest friendship. I haven’t talked to her since before Christmas, and I think taking space from the situation has been good for me, but I can’t stop ruminating on it and wondering if I am actually the bad friend here.

    1. I don’t think it’s helpful to point fingers and decide who’s the “bad friend.” Friendships end, and this one has, and if it were me I would be feeling like I dodged a bullet with the bridesmaid thing.

       I know it hurts, but sometimes you have to just say “fooey” and move on.

       1. You’re right. Thank you!

       2. That makes sense. I guess the reason I am caught up in the “bad friend” thing is because of the juxtaposition of “You are like a sister to me” in August and now “We aren’t that good of friends anymore”, so I keep running over the friendship history in my mind to try to understand what happened. But you’re right and I just have to move on. Thank you!

       3. My other comment got stuck in mod – but you’re right determining who is the “bad friend” is not helpful. I think I just feel confused how it went from “You’re like a sister to me” to “you’re not that good of a friend” in 4 months, so I keep mentally going through our friendship history, but it’s not healthy for me to do that and I have to try to move on.

    2. No, your DH is right. She doesn’t treat you well. You’re going to be sad, and you can still be grateful for her support when you were young. But it’s okay to let her go.

       1. For some reason it feels harder to let go of a friendship than my past romantic relationships before DH. But I like what you said about still being grateful for her support from when we were young. Thanks.

       2. I replied to this a while ago but my comment is stuck in mod. I like what you said about being grateful for her support earlier in life and being okay with letting her go.

    3. I don’t know that it’s all or nothing. You can accept that you’ll have a less involved, less close friendship with this person going forward but you don’t have to have a “break up” conversation. You don’t have to actually break up. Certainly you should back away from the friendship now because it is hurting your feelings and causing you distress. But if you can manage your feelings about it over time, I don’t think you need to cut contact.

       My best friend from high school is still my friend. She lives across the country now and has a tight friend group there, just as I’ve moved on and have closer friends I’ve met in college and at jobs since we grew up. There have been slights here and there that I believe were unintentional/thoughtless. But she’s still my friend and I’m glad I didn’t call it quits because we were no longer as close as we once were.

       1. That makes sense. Another issue factoring into all of this is that I may be going back to grad school this fall and a couple of schools I moved onto the next round in are located in the city she lives in (it’s a big city on the east coast). I had a virtual interview for a fellowship at one of the schools yesterday, and it seemed to go well. We both work in the same small creative industry, so there is a chance of our paths crossing, so I agree I feel like a “break up” conversation may be too much.

    4. so i have a similar bridesmaid type situation story – a friend who i am very very close with from college and our friendship in college really bloomed senior year and in post college life spoke daily on gchat back when that was a thing. we both had serious boyfriends and she got engaged two years after we graduated from college. before she got engaged, we used to talk about weddings all the time, almost daily, and what we would want at our weddings, who we would want in them, etc. we both said the other one would be a bridesmaid. she had some drama at the beginning of her wedding planning and i was there for her for that. well fast forward a few months when she told me over gchat who she was going to ask to be her bridesmaids and i wasn’t one of them. she had asked a different friend from college, and said it was because she wanted to have 1 person from different stages of life (so like a high school friend, camp friend, etc.). i was extremely extremely hurt and our daily communication basically stopped and we didnt talk for a bit, but then i sort of came to terms with it and we started talking again, but things weren’t the same. then 6 months after that just as I was about to go visit a different friend from college, she sent me an email telling me that she had also asked that other friend to be a bridesmaid with a whole email explaining why. i was beyond upset. i remember being up all night crying. i was so so hurt. i still went to her wedding, but honestly it was hard for me. i got engaged a week after her wedding and she was supportive, and honestly it probably took us a few years for us to get past this and now she is one of my closest friends, though thinking about that time makes me sad….but i will say that other than this bridesmaid ridiculousness she has been an amazing friend who has almost always been there for me. your friend on the other hand, sounds a bit like a drama queen, like with the purse situation

       1. I’m sorry that happened to you! I’m glad you moved past this and that you have a strong friendship now. I know the purse situation was kind of a silly story to share (and she did apologize for that last year, actually), but I guess I just wanted to show that we’ve been friends through rocky times and we’ve had sisterly fights that we moved past. For some reason, this feels different than the other rough patches we went through, but maybe in a couple years things will have smoothed over.

          1. I’m coming back to say that I’m a generation older than you are, but honestly I don’t have time for any relationship that involves fights. Good grief. Life is too short!

    5. You don’t sound like the bad friend. From what you’ve said, I agree with your husband that she is not treating you well. The good news is, you can fade if you want to. It sounds like she has started this process by telling you she doesn’t see you as one of her closest friends. There’s no need for a conversation about how you want your friendship to be. There’s no need to declare yourself “done” or that your friendship is “over.” You can take a step back, and then you can either enjoy the friendship for what it is, or you can take another step back… and so on. I suspect you’ll find that the more you step back, the better you feel, but it can be a gradual process, and it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

       1. That’s kind of how I felt after she said “we can have a talk about how we want our friendship to be.” I don’t have too much to say at this point, and I think a fade is best.

       2. I agree. I have dear friends from years ago who now I am only friends with on social media. We never talk on the phone or see each other but I “like” their posts and sometimes write comments wishing them well and they will do the same. Friendships change over time and especially if you live in different places and don’t see them everyday. There doesn’t need to be a conversation about how your friendship is changing – it can just happen organically. You stop texting as often, don’t return their calls as quickly etc.

    6. Ouch, that sounds hurtful. At this point, I don’t think you need to end the friendship but will need to do some work to accept that you’re not as close as you thought, or that you were in college and beyond. The picture you’re painting of her is … not great, so although I don’t think you need to cut ties, I sort of agree with your DH that a less involved friendship may be healthier for everyone involved.

       1. I agree about the less involved friendship – I was kind of apathetic when she said “We can have a discussion about how we want our friendship to be” which was the first clue that my gut was telling me I need to step back.

    7. I had this exact problem years ago, down to being excluded as a bridesmaid passively aggressively, with my college bff
       There had been red flags all along that it wasn’t a healthy friendship. I made the effort to help her out a lot. She did the bare minimum. And So on.
       The relationship faded very quickly after the bridesmaid snub, and I really haven’t looked back. It’s hard though. You can mourn the friendship lost while also realizing it’s not a good part of your future.
       I think about my former BFF sometimes and wonder how she is, but it’s a fleeting thought and I’m happy with my life. I realize looking back we had very different goals and lifestyles and would have drifted apart regardless.

       1. I guess this situation isn’t as uncommon as I thought! I’m sorry you also went through this. I like how you said “You can mourn the friendship lost while also realizing it’s not a good part of your future” – it’s hard, but I am trying to focus on how to (safely) nurture existing friendships in my current city.

    8. It doesn’t sound like you like her any more. That’s ok. “Some friendships are just for a season” my therapist says. I would leave the silence there for a while. I had a falling out with an old friend recently, so I get how hard it is. Sharing in case this is helpful: we had a blow up over something minor (that was very very clearly a stand-in for something major that was too heartbreaking to discuss), and then we just didn’t talk for six months or so. Recently, we’ve resumed texting every other month or so, and I have considered having a heart-to-heart and trying to patch things up, but really, I don’t want to face the way I know she’ll act during that conversation, and if I’m feeling that way, why bother patching things up? I continue to <3 the FB pics of her lovely kiddo and to wish the best for her, but we just aren't good friends any more.

       1. Thank you for sharing – it is helpful <3

    9. You’re not a bad friend, it sounds like you’re in different phases of life and the friendship is dying out. For what it’s worth, the bridesmaid thing seems like unnecessary drama. Even if you do decide that someone really isn’t as close as you’d like them to be, once you invite them to be a bridesmaid just kind of suck it up and have them participate barring any egregious behavior, you know? It’s not taking anything away to have someone who is not super close celebrate with you. It’s immature.

       1. I agree re: different phases of life – our last couple of years have been extremely different, and I think this bridesmaid thing has made it clear where our friendship stands since actions speak louder than words.

    10. I am sorry that you are experiencing this. I agree that as you take a step back, you will likely feel better. That doesn’t mean your friendship has to end entirely, just that putting some distance in will probably improve how you feel about the relationship overall.
        That said, can we all learn from this string that bridal parties are often disasters and the concept should go by the wayside? It’s the equivalent of that game we played as kids where we ranked our first best friend through our fifth best friend while all parties were present, and it just ends up being unnecessarily burdensome and expensive for all at a time when lives are already complicated, too. Ban the bridal party!

        1. Amen! I am cautiously optimistic that the pandemic might signal the end of the over-the-top weddings that seem to have become the norm in many circules.

    11. Not being a bridesmaid is a GIFT. Take it and run. You get to enjoy the cocktail hour in a dress you chose for yourself. Dream life!

32. I apologize – I know its late in the day but does anyone have a good florist in Milwaukee for birthday flowers? N 60th Street address if that helps. Thank you!

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