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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: The Leo Pullover in Silk Jersey

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A colleague and I were recently trying to figure out what to wear to an event where the men were told that it was a “polo shirt and khakis” kind of vibe. Since neither of us own any polo shirts, we decided that ankle pants and a short-sleeved sweater were the functional equivalent, but if I had this silk pullover from M.M.LaFleur in my closet, it would have been PERFECT.

I would wear this untucked with a pair of skinny pants and flats for a casual networking event, or tucked into a pencil skirt for a more formal office day.

The top is available at M.M.LaFleur in sizes XS–XXL in the pictured blue (lucky sizes only) and also in cream (all sizes in stock).

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

243 Comments

  1. For anyone looking to buy bedsheets . . .

    I bought some bamboo ones, totally not a fan, they are very plastic-y.

    1. Thanks for reporting back! I’ve heard people rave about bamboo sheets but I tend to dislike synthetic fibers. Appreciate knowing I shouldn’t waste any money on these.

        1. I could be wrong but I thought the name bamboo was just a marketing gimmick and the sheets are actually polyester or rayon.

        3. I have a longer comment in moderation, but almost all bamboo fabric is a type of rayon. They use bamboo pulp to make it, but that’s the end of its “natural” properties.

      2. I had read that they are supposed to be very smooth. Which they are. But it veers too much into plastic-y territory for me and I’d prefer something softer.

    2. Sorry to hear that – I bought a set of bamboo sheets somewhere years ago and they are the softest sheets I’ve ever had. I only stopped using them because I got a larger size mattress.

    3. Every time I need new sheets I google for Pima cotton and then look for the highest thread count I can afford within the results. Pima is the longest staple cotton (supima is a brand name of pima) and they’re always great. I do find I need a break in period but by the 3rd or 4th wash we’re getting there and they just keep getting better and better.

  2. One of my top reports this morning broke down in a routine call with me, said she’s been struggling with mental health issues and wants to resign. She’s young and says this has nothing to do with the job but generally in life she’s questioning everything. Other than giving her plenty of space and mental health time off, what else can I do to support?

    1. I would think she could go on a medical leave until she can make a well informed, less emotional decision.

      1. She should definitely take leave for a few weeks and get professional help rather than flat out quit.

    3. Oy. Unless your job is causing your mental health struggles, quitting generally only makes it worse: you then have struggles with both income and finding a new job. Health insurance is expensive, which can put therapy out of reach.

      In your place, I would ask her flat-out what she plans on doing for income and how she plans on seguing back into the workforce. (She can say that she left to take care of “health issues,” and you can back her up on it.) If the issues are diagnosable, you can offer FMLA, either weeks at a time or intermittent (maybe she goes half time for 24 weeks). I would explain to her that unless she has another source of income, leaving her income will exacerbate mental health issues and make it harder to get treatment. I would ask her if she needs flex time to see a therapist, if she isn’t already.

      1. Yeah, not this at all. None of the details are your business, and asking pointed questions about how she plans to support herself and insinuating that’s she’ll derail her career will not help her. Say you’re sorry to hear she’s struggling, and refer her to your EAP asap.

        1. +1
          Major overstep. Doing these things make you–not her–a liability. EAP and correct HR rep for FMLA process. You don’t get to know details, and don’t get to determine if something is diagnosable.

          2. It depends if you really care for and want to help this person, or if you want to CYA, avoid liability risk, and push these problems entirely off your plate. The super-cautious, refer-to-[meaningless]-EAP answers are the second approach. But unfortunately, it’s this approach that has made 21st century managerial America so taxing on many people’s mental health. It’s not without risk to you to genuinely help this person, but I encourage you to do the right thing nonetheless.

        2. The plan to walk off the job is poorly thought out, to say the least. It would be a kindness to her to walk her through what life would be like after, as well as options the company is willing to support to keep her (FMLA, flex time for therapy, EAP, etc.).

          Here’s what’s going to happen in an interview. Interviewer will ask the young woman why she left. If the young woman says “I just didn’t like the job” or “it wasn’t for me” or somesuch, she comes off looking like a flake. Maybe people think she was forced out. Nothing good will come of it.

          If she says “Health issues; my manager and I talked about FMLA options, flex time, etc., and I finally decided that it was best for me to leave and focus on getting better,” that sounds perfectly rational. Tell her that NOW, not a year from now after she’s trying desperately to find a job and can’t figure out why she keeps getting rejected. Get the manager, who is presumably going to be a reference, on board now so that both parties are saying the same thing about her departure.

        3. +3. That would be for a close friend or family member for her to discuss with, and even then, only if she asked them for specific advice. Definitely not for a supervisor to weigh in on.

      2. This may all be true, but it is not the role of her boss to be telling her this. Her boss should provide info on how to take pto and/or fmla and provide info on any eap resources.

      3. “I would explain to her that unless she has another source of income, leaving her income will exacerbate mental health issues and make it harder to get treatment.”

        Do you think she’s stupid?

        1. It does sound like she is desperate and not thinking clearly, so having someone say that out loud might be helpful. It should not be threatening, or implying she will ruin her career, but nudging her toward options that don’t involve just quitting seems like a kindness as well as appropriate. “Hey, you don’t have to quit. We have options– flex time, PTO, FMLA. Let’s try those first. I am concerned about the consequences of a rash decision. If, as you say, the problem is not this job, quitting this job might not be the answer and could make things more difficult down the road.”

    4. Refer her to the EAP and encourage her to take sick time or PTO. If she’s eligible for FMLA that’s an option too.

    5. I really hate the way that the term “mental health” is bandied about in public discourse lately. It leads to too much self-diagnosis. The response is different depending on whether this employee is working with a doctor and a therapist on an actual, diagnosed mental health issue, or she’s just overwhelmed and has decided it’s a “mental health” issue without seeking professional advice. If it seems to be the former, I’d tell her she is doing great at work and that you’d hate to lose her and would like to support her, then point her to the company’s policies on medical leave and disability accommodations. If she just seems overwhelmed, I’d also reassure her that she’s doing great at work and you would hate to lose her, then point her to EAP with encouragement that these issues can in fact be worked through with the right support.

      2. You don’t need to go through the motions of finding a therapist/social worker/psychiatrist/psychologist and getting a formal Dx to know that you might be in a state of crisis or overwhelm or spiraling or whatnot. This is absurdly narrow, and I can tell you from personal experience, trying to find a mental health resource when you are in a time of crisis can be overwhelming in and of itself, which is why the EAP is there.

    6. I am like a second away from doing this at my work too. To be honest, I think the only thing that could help me in the immediate future would be to permit me to take leave for a few weeks and then let me decide if I want to come back. But, at this point, I can’t promise I would come back.

    7. Transition all of her work in the next hour and send her home. Tell her to burn her sick/vacation time until you can get the paper work sorted for a leave of absence. Talk to your HR partner to see if it can be classified as short term disability so she can get partial pay while she’s out. I would set the initial out of office period for at least two months and reassure her that it can be extended.

      Your report is in crisis mode, so treat this like she’s about to go into emergency surgery with a long recovery time.

      1. Depending on how dire she described the situation as, this might be the best approach.

    8. Based on my personal experience, let her decide what she needs to do and let her do that. If she needs to resign, accept her resignation gracefully and wish her well.

      I know you want to help her. I know you want to keep your employee and hire someone else. But if she’s trying to resign now, you’ve already lost her. I tried to talk someone out of it once and we had a prolonged period of him being unhappy at work and me trying to find every avenue to help him and he ultimately left anyway. Once a person has mentally left their job there’s really no getting them back and in hindsight we both would have been better off with me accepting his resignation day one.

  3. Randomly, why do so many women’s dresses and tops have sleeves that fail to slide neatly into sweaters and blazers?! I cannot deal some days and just want to light a match in my closet.

    1. I didn’t know this was a thing with women’s clothes – isn’t that just all clothes with long sleeves that are under another layer with long sleeves? I’ve always had to pull my sleeves out (maybe with the exception of a looser silky material but even those bunch up sometimes).

  4. Does anyone own this MM LaFleur top? How deep is the v neck — is it workable without a camisole?

    1. From the other pics on the website, it looks pretty deep. I wish work wear brands would think about these issues…

      1. Exactly.
        A camisole just adds another decision I have to make … what color camisole, what fabric, are both top and camisole clean on the same day I want to wear the top.

        2. TBH, now that I’m in my 40s and give many fewer f***s, I won’t buy pieces that require a camisole on principal. It’s just one other thing to keep track of on busy mornings while getting dressed and more likely to be an avenue for frustration than anything else.

  5. Re: yesterday’s midlife crisis question —I think I’m going through one now. I completely relate to the poster who talked about going through her 30s watching friends get married and have kids and not having it happen for her. This is majorly simplifying, but it felt like everyone else got the grand story, the big narrative we were primed for our whole lives, while I mourned that it wasn’t happening for me.

    And then with career, on paper I have a great career and the company is actually pretty amazing—good people, good pay, decent work life balance—but when it comes right down to it, what I’ve found no matter which industry or org I work for is that work is work. It’s dealing with office politics and passive-aggressive coworkers and unreasonable deadlines and people grandstanding in meetings. I feel far removed from the (noble) mission of my org once I get immersed in the day to day. Every morning I wake up and think, here we go… and the onslaught of requests and meetings begins again. It’s exhausting. I wonder, am I just not cut out for work?! Some people seem to thrive in these environments. I’m drained and tired.

    And then there’s the pandemic, which highlighted both the deep friendships I do have (thankfully!) but also the fact that a lot of my life was spent in offices and at events, making it feel full and exciting… but once that was stripped away, I ended up stuck alone with myself much more than I ever would have wanted, and it was really difficult.

    I guess it’s a midlife crisis paired with pandemic ennui. Would not recommend! Any tips on how to deal?

    1. I have no advice but I sympathize with you heavily. I feel like the “big narrative” is happening for everyone else except for me.

      1. On that part I always felt in good company with millennials and maybe also a whole number of gen x-ers. ‘So no-one told you life was gonna be this wayyyyy…’clapclapclapclap

    2. You sound very extroverted – you thrive in events and with friends, but you find sitting alone at home to be draining. That isn’t something to fix so much as something to structure your life around (said as an introvert whom people are constantly trying to fix).

    3. “a lot of my life was spent in offices and at events, making it feel full and exciting… but once that was stripped away, I ended up stuck alone with myself ” +1,000 to all of this. I am in the same boat. I think a lot of people are. Hugs.

      1. I would say I fall a bit more on the introvert side, but I identify. Pre-COVID, I went to the office and interacted with people, but had a private office when I needed to get away. I took ballet classes and a group training class, which are with people but not really interacting that much, so a good way for an introvert to get some human contact. I saw friends on the weekends, sometimes during the week, but then was able to go home and have some alone time.

        I am beginning to feel like that is never going to come back, we’re almost in the same shape with COVID as we were last summer. I mean, it’s better in the sense that I am vaccinated, as are all my friends, but I’m still working at home. I was thinking about returning to ballet at least (smaller classes, masks required, older people so likely vaxxed), but now I don’t know. It just all sucks.

        1. I’ve been back at masked dance class since last August. You could go back tmrw if you want.

    4. Also no advice, but just commiseration about being in our 30s and feeling as if the dream narrative is passing us by…

    5. Same…I had a discipline meeting where I was told I am “difficult to work with” and I am spiraling out about how I can move up in the future at my company when I do good work but am not “likeable”. It seems like everyone else has a career that is easy breezy and I struggle to get anywhere. Am I cut out for working?! What would my alternative be, as a single non-parent?!

      Anyway, o feel your pain here and I don’t have any advice but it’s hard!

      1. Whoa that sounds like a post on its own. Maybe start a thread with more details and see if some of the wise ladies here can help.

  6. Poll: peacock blue or royal purple for my office?

    The blue is one of the best colors for my complexion, so I won’t look dead on video meetings. And, pretty! But I also love purple. Can’t decide.

    Nearby: hallway is sky blue, master bedroom is periwinkle.

    Specific color recommendations welcome, if you have something similar and adore it.

    2. One peacock blue wall for video meetings, royal purple for the rest of the room?

    4. How bad is the light in winter? That is my only hesitation on going dark. But peacock for sure.

    5. Oh pretty, I love deep colors! Have you looked at the Farrow and Ball purples? Brinjal is a personal favorite but it sounds like Pelt might work well for you? St. Giles blue is also really pretty and cheerful!

        1. Just FYI I color matched Farrow and Ball at Sherwin Williams and it worked out well — definitely not as lux as if I had bought actual Farrow and Ball paint but pretty great.

    6. Peacock blue and purple velvet curtains. I got purple velvet curtains for my den and I am constantly surprised by how much I love them.

      1. Also, get extra long curtains – hang them high, wide, and flow all the way to the floor.

    7. Blue! Am lusting over hague blue with white trim for my bedroom. Purple is harder to coordinate to.

  7. Suggestions for a day spa, preferably in or super close to DC? (pretend COVID and mask mandates aren’t a factor). I’m looking for an experience like Hershey Spa or Bedford Springs. I tried the Watergate and was super disappointed- small, dark, depressing, bad service, facilities out of order with no explanation or apology, way overpriced.

    4. Homestead?

      DC has a real dearth of day spas or luxe retreats. If you don’t want to go that far I’d probably do the Mandarin Oriental or Lansdowne in Leesburg.

  8. Food ideas:
    Weeknight evening outdoor gathering, about 20-25 people, 12 of which will be 7/8 year old girls (plus misc parents and siblings).

    We’re doing hot dogs and hamburgers. What else is an unfussy, easy to make/serve/eat outside in a larger group setting? Adults will have a table; the kids will either have a table or a bench or be eating in the yard on picnic blankets.

    Do we bother with a “fixings” station for burgers and dogs or just put ketchup and mustard on the tables and tell them to have at it?

    1. Definitely fixing. French fries or tater tots in the side. If you’re grilling, I would grill some veggies too (like zucchini).

    2. Fruit salad. Cole slaw. Sliced veggies. Potato salad.

      Aside from putting the ketchup and mustard out, would suggest having lettuce, sliced tomatoes, cheese, onions, and pickles available as “fixings” on a tray near the grill. A burger with nothing but ketchup on it is… not super flavorful.

      2. Yes I love fixings. Soak the onion rings in ice water – actually just serve them in ice water. It helps so much with onion burps / heartburn.

        I love potato salad and corn salad. Corn salad is
        1 can white corn, drained
        1 can black beans, drained (optional)
        1 red bell pepper, diced
        A handful of scallions, chopped
        Mayonnaise
        Salt and pepper to taste

        Optional additions: halved grape tomatoes, diced peeled and seeded cucumber (can make the salad too wet though), and fresh herbs – dill and basil are nice

    3. Not a vegetarian but not a big meat eater either — I would appreciate it if there were some sort of sides, like a corn salad, tomato and cucumber salad, watermelon and feta and mint salad, or tomato mozzarella skewers. Some veggies on the grill make for great sides too. All of these you can make ahead of time and just put out before the gathering.

      1. Grilling portobella mushrooms makes them delicious, and the big ones are a decent burger substitute.

    4. I’d add a sliced watermelon, a tray of mixed greens, and a tray of mac and cheese.

      1. I’m planning to have them, but stuck on ideas for what kids will actually eat in such a setting. My kid will eat potato salad but she is an anomaly. I don’t want to give them skewers of mozz. I was thinking maybe Mac and cheese but that’s kind of messy.

        I’m not worried about the adults, who will be seated/served in a different area.

        1. Oh your original post was not at all clear that you’re only wondering about the kids.

          Literally bags of chips and a tray of sliced veggies should do the trick for them.

          1. My kids were always absolutely thrilled with a choice of individual bags of chips.

    7. Can you do individuals of something rather than shared since at least half the guests are unvaccinated? With shared condiments and sides and such and it’s hard to get kids to stop and wash hands sometimes and you don’t want crowding. Like maybe have little chip bags or put ketchup in little mouth wash cups or something? Think of it like whether you would want to be unvaccinated and sharing an unwashed ketchup bottle with the rest of a restaurant right now. It’s safe but it’s just not appealing.

      1. I can appreciate that people want to take this sort of precaution, and those people are very unlikely to opt in to my backyard gathering. Bagged chips is one thing (which we’d do in Normal Times anyway) but I’m going to leave the ketchup bottle sanitizing to the parents.

      2. Yeah, no, a shared ketchup bottle is not a plausible mode of transmission. I’m probably too cautious to opt in to the party, but I understand the precautions I take; I’m not just making stuff up.

    8. That’s big enough group that I’d set it up buffet style, with the fixings station at the end of the table. Simple fixings – I would include ketchup, mustard, cheese slices (the Wisconsin in me can’t imagine a burger without cheese), lettuce and tomatoes. For the sides I would do cold salads (potato salad, pasta salad), a veggie tray/dip, chips in a bowl, and watermelon slices. You can even just buy the cold salads from the deli.

    9. I like to offer a hearty pasta salad that can serve as a side dish or an alternative main dish for vegetarians or people who just don’t feel like a burger.

    10. If concentrating on the kids, definitely sliced watermelon or a fruit salad, and one or two other options like pasta salad with tiny chopped veg (i.e. hidden veg), mac and cheese, salad and/or sliced veg with kid friendly dips (ranch most likely), a few varieties of individually bagged chips. Basically provide at least one fruit and veg option. Not all kids have a “restaurant kids menu” palate and I’d be a little miffed if the only options available for children were meat and cheese – they’d be on the toilet all night. Some kids like healthy options.

    11. I was just in Iceland and one of the famous things to do in Reykjavik is to go to the hot dog stand. They put French fried onions on the bun before putting the hot dog on it, and OMG it’s great! Nice crunchy texture. Then the mustard/ketchup-ish toppings, then fresh chopped onions. HIGHLY recommend. Can’t wait to have an occasion to serve hot dogs so I can copy using French’s fried onions from the can.

      2. In a similar vein, my favorite hot dog stand in college made a “Chips Plus,” which was hot dog topped with cheese, ketchup, crushed up Ruffles potato chips, and old bay.

    12. We just did this last night; loads of fix’ins plus a huge tray of watermelon, a tray of Crudité, and a big homemade Caesar salad with homemade croutons, real bacon, real parm shavings.

  9. New Yorkers, help me pack for a trip this weekend. Will I be okay with shorts, dresses, and sandals or do I need to bring a jacket and a more substantial shoe? Jeans? What are people wearing these days?

    1. Layers! Denim jacket? Great for wind too if you will be near a river at night.
      Perhaps tights for under dress~ easy to pack, remove and stash in a backpack. Definitely a light pashmina bc AC can be frigid.

      1. Oops forgot this…cut and comfy sneakers bc lots of walking. IMO more useful than sandals in nyc. For me, sandals do not cut it for full days of concrete!

      2. Absolutely no need for tights here. It won’t drop below low 70s at night this weekend. Highs in mid-80s. Bring a jean jacket or a summer sweater, sure, but you don’t really need layers, unless you have a thyroid condition that makes you cold all the time.

    2. You will be fine with shorts, dresses and sandals, though I would also bring sneakers if you plan to walk around during the day. I have worn a jean jacket a couple evenings this summer, so it might not hurt to bring a light jacket, though the forecast this weekend looks warm. I rarely wear jeans during the summer, but you would not look out of place in jeans for dinner (or even during the day I guess, but that is just way too hot for me).

    3. I find a light jacket useful because it’s been cool in the mornings and evenings lately. If you get cold easily jeans are good, and if you will be walking a lot more than you are used to, sneakers are good. As for what people are wearing, it depends. Some have used the pandemic to drop to extra casual and some are happy to have an excuse to dress up again. So wear whatever you want.

    4. I always have a sweater or jacket with me as I get cold in A/C on the subway etc.

    5. Also don’t be like me: The first time I went to NYC in the summer (from So Cal) I packed only one outfit per day, which wasn’t nearly enough because I failed to account for how sweaty I was going to get in the humidity.

      1. Also came from So Cal for a few weeks earlier this summer (after living in NYC back in the day) and the heat plus humidity plus walking sooo much made my feet swell to the point where I had to buy new shoes. The two pairs of shoes that were comfortable were: P448 chunky sneakers (bought on sale, very sturdy and well made so my feet could actually breathe) and Fit Flop sandals with back strap for ALL THE ARCH SUPPORT.

        I agree with Senior Attorney about how sweaty (and also grimy and gross) I felt at the end of each day and I went through way more clothes than expected (and sooo many undies bc of sweatiness).

        I wore lightweight dresses (I’ll link one from amazon separately, also had a nicer shirt dress from a trendier brand). On mid-agey women like myself I saw a some rompers (?) (the one piece outfits with shorts, which they have a lot of at Zara but I never buy), some cutoffs plus tees but mostly lightweight dresses with comfy sandals or trendy sneakers. I did not see anyone dressed up beyond said lightweight dress for any of the nicer dinners we did (although we did not do any need-reservations-months-in-advance-culinary-extravaganza level restaurants).

    6. Just went to NYC for a visit in July and honestly… wear whatever you like as long as your shoes are comfortable for pounding pavement for hours. A light jacket would be good for the evening but also remember NYC is pretty humid in the summer. I prefer lightweight breathable pants, but that’s me. Saw plenty of people wearing shorts, leggings, dresses.

    7. Ex-NYer here: unless your sandals are platforms, you will not want only sandals for NYC. It’s a really dirty city at street level. There’s slimy grime if it summer rains, it’s dirty–you will likely want closed shoes for all walks but the very shortest ones. I grew up by the beach in SoCal and lived in sandals year round, but once I moved to NYC, they were nearly eliminated from my wardrobe. And protip, scrub your feet before you go to bed if you do wear them–your feet will be black. Eew. And I am not in the least a germaphobe in any other aspect of my life, but sandals and NYC really don’t mix well. Trust me.

      2. Eh. Plenty of women in NYC are wearing sandals this year. It’s hot. Agree that you should scrub your feet but I have always worn sandals and it’s been fine. Random unexpected rain is admittedly gross, but wet closed shoes aren’t much of an improvement.

    1. Hmm, I take a very different approach, but my personal brand has always been more about fashion and standing out. That said, scrolled through your current posts and those mephisto sandals you posted are calling to me in these transitional times – did they take you time to break in?

      1. Not Lisa, but if you are referring to the Mephisto Lissandra sandals, zero break in time for me, and they are very comfy. Currently on sale at Nordstrom anniversary sale in a range of colors.

    2. I remember that post, Lisa!

      I also hated biz casual at the beginning but am finally used to it…. And now even those clothes are a bit fussy for wearing to WFH

    3. “And Linux love trumps everything – technical types get a special dispensation from all of this.” < — held up then, still holds up now

  11. For those who did biglaw for a number of years but left before partnership (so say staying for 5-8 years), how common is it to leave NYC biglaw with a sizeable net worth — 750k+ or 1 mil+ at ages 30-33? I’m thinking all in net worth including 401k.

    I was there until 2013 so I didn’t start at the current 200k salaries – I actually started in the era of 125k but that year we went up to 160k. I don’t recall exactly discussing it but at the time that I and many of my peers were leaving, people did not feel like they were rich and could just take whatever job they wanted regardless of salary, even for those of us who didn’t live large (which I didn’t). Fiance and I were discussing it now a number of years later and he finds it stunning that I wasn’t sitting on some huge net worth back then – despite living way below my means for NYC biglaw and not having huge debt out of law school (more like 75k whereas I know some people have like 175 or 275k). How common is it to come out of biglaw as an associate and feel like “you’re set”?

    1. I don’t think anyone emerges saying “I can do whatever I want,” rather, that living below your means for those years means you emerge with no loans and a solid chunk of savings, and adjusting to an in house salary isn’t a pain point.

      1. +1 I only did biglaw for a few years, but for my friends who stayed longer, this was their mindset. Enough time to pay off loans, save for down payment, and have a nice nest egg for the future. But not much beyond that.

        1. +1 this was my goal if I wasn’t going to do partnership. Pay off loans, have enough for a down payment and retirement accounts. Took about 7 years to get to that point. I think outside of NYC or SF you could potentially walk away with more

          1. Outside those markets you’re not getting the same raises and bonuses, though. I understand COL is rough but you’re not relying on bonus money to pay day to day living costs, and with rare exceptions you’re not getting $100k bonuses outside of major markets.

          2. Depends on the firm. I have friends in TX biglaw that are making the same as NYC associates. People in Chicago tend to end up a bit ahead too as they’re usually getting the same comp with slightly less (but still high) COL

    2. this is likely to be me in 1-2 years (presently on track to end year 4 with ~600k at 31), and I feel like it is very uncommon. very deliberate choices about my lifestyle and a great stroke of luck with my law school debt situation got me here. I don’t necessarily feel “set” for life, especially if I throw kids into the mix, but I do feel like I have a lot more flexibility with what I do next, if I ever figure out what I should do with the rest of my career

    3. I’m not sure how common it is. I think a lot of my friends who left in the 5-8 year range had spouses with well-paying jobs/parents who paid for college/weddings/etc, which changes the calculus quite a bit.

      I had low six-figure debt, started in the 160 days (but at a just below lockstep firm), and left with ~750K. I didn’t live large, had a roommate in a walk up, didn’t vacation much, but definitely spent some money at restaurants and 40K a year on daycare. I don’t feel like I’m “set” as a single parent, but I see it as a snowball that allows me to focus on other things now.

    5. I left a firm that paid BigLaw salaries in 2010 after being there for five years. I live in a large city in Texas where cost of living is significantly lower than NYC, and I did not have any student loans when I finished school. When I left the firm, I had paid off the mortgage for my tiny condo and my net worth was probably about $500k – $600k. Becaues I didn’t have a mortgage and my expenses were low, I was able to take a job that paid about 1/3 of what I had earned at the law firm (not 1/3 less, 1/3 of what I had made).

    6. Graduating in 2013: after five years at market salary but non-market bonuses, I had paid off my loans and saved up the down payment for our house. I barely broke the $100k threshold in the 401(k) because I had directed my money towards my loans during the first three years. I still don’t have a sizeable net worth by the yardstick this board uses.

      The salary raises have gone hand-in-hand with escalating tuition costs which translate into astronomical loans at graduation. Nobody is getting wealthy being an associate unless they had a scholarship or help with tuition. And having a partner is another big help – my friends who partnered up early were in much better shape financially at the end of their time in market paying law firms.

      1. Please. You were wealthy. No loans, down payment, six figures in retirement…all within five years of entering the workforce. Check your privilege

    7. I started in biglaw in the 160k salary era (law school c/o 2015) with ~195k student loans by the time I started making payments (that ~7% interest on federal loans for the years I was in school was killer; I had this balance despite a 75K scholarship!). I’ve been working at a biglaw salary (but well below market bonuses) for around 5.5 years total since graduation, and I’m currently still working somewhere that pays slightly below market salaries and maybe ~25% of market bonuses. I also clerked for a federal judge for one year in between my private sector working years, which naturally came with a huge pay-cut and caused significant setbacks with my loan repayment. I recently fully paid off my loans and currently have a ~$370k net worth including cash savings, investments, retirement accounts, etc.

      My SO worked at a market-paying biglaw firm starting in the 160k years (law school c/o 2014) with ~170k in loans and stayed at the market-paying biglaw firm for a little over five years. (They always got all of the market bonuses each year.) At the time my SO left biglaw at the start of their sixth year, right after getting last year’s year-end bonus, their net worth was around ~$450k, and their student loans were fully paid off by their fourth year in biglaw. I think our numbers are far from “set” for life, but we emerged with no loans, solid savings, and can comfortably take a pay-cut to go in-house or do government jobs.

      Neither of us have bought an apartment or home or a car or anything like that, so our net worth is entirely liquid. My SO does send a fair bit of financial help to their parents, so that did reduce their ability to build their net worth more quickly. I think we both would have benefitted from refinancing our student loans and paying them down more slowly, in favor of making investments instead (the stock market has mostly performed great since 2016 or so, and our investments would have gained far more than 2.5-4% each year, the interest rate one could get on refinanced law school student loans for biglaw types). We also probably each put a bit too much into cash savings and should invest with more of that. With a more optimal investment approach and given the fairly strong stock market since 2016, I think it may have been possible to get to ~500-600K net worth on five years in biglaw with loan balances like ours. Maybe people in my law school class who stick it out for 8 years might be able to get to a million if they manage things very well and the stock market continues to perform?

    8. I didn’t leave “set” as in I never have to work again. But definitely left well off for a 33 year old knowing that most people at that age don’t have a 3/4 of a million net worth unless they are in finance/hedge funds. So I left with the feeling of – the investments I have now in brokerage and retirement are well on their way to being something significant. This was in NYC and it wasn’t particularly hard; the only deliberate decision I made was to NOT live in a $5000/month luxury pad like many of my classmates and instead live in a $2100-2500 midtown doorman building from the 70s. I didn’t like it much but then I also was never home. And I chose NOT to pay off my law school debt because I was making more in the market than my 2% interest rate – my debt wasn’t huge though, just under 100k.

      I honestly don’t know why this scenario isn’t more common but it isn’t. My class was pretty open about finances. For every 1 associate with 200k in debt, there are 2 whose parents are law firm partners or specialist drs. themselves and paid for law school outright, so in those jobs it isn’t the case that everyone is drowning in debt. Yet I had classmates with no loans who stayed for 4-5 years and left with NO 401k because while making 200k (back then) they couldn’t bear to put 17k (the limit then) in per year because they NEEDED the money – for luxury apartments, non stop fancy shopping etc.

    9. The only people who did this either graduated with no student loans or had SOs paying their normal living expenses or both. It’s not mathematically possible to pay off astronomical student loans AND pay rent/utilities in a HCOL (or even MCOL) area somewhere that is both close to the office and safe AND save ~$1 million. The people I know who left biglaw with significant net worth had low/no loans, a spouse with a decent income, and owned a home that significantly increased in value in the couple of years they owned it. But even they didn’t actually save $1 million in 5 years or whatever, a lot of their net worth comes from the condo in a hip downtown area they were able to purchase as a first year associate thanks to their SO’s savings and their combined high income.

      1. I agree. I lived way below my means and left with about $600k after 7 years. My only big expense was for a one bedroom apartment in a cheaper, non-hip part of town. But during those 7 years, I also paid over $300k to payoff my student loans. If I hadn’t had loans, I could have left with over $1M. If I had a partner for those 7 years, I would have left with more (But not $1m).

    10. As a single person who came into big law with six figures of debt, and tried to live frugally (but not ramen style) in a HCOL location, I have $700k net worth as a 6th year.

      Tbh, it doesn’t feel like that. (Not in the “we earn 500k a year and are poor” style articles.) It’s just that with almost all of it in retirement and the mortgage, you just don’t see it and don’t feel rich. I know I don’t feel I’m “all set” but I intended and do feel that I’ve set myself up to have flexibility later down the line. However, the money thing that keeps me worried is being single. I want a kid, and worry about the costs of being a single mom.

    12. A friend of mine graduated from law school and immediately started working at a BigLaw job. I know that she was also able to buy an apartment in (big city) which she basically bought as a construction site and she made a significant profit off it when she sold it. Her boyfriend/fiance/husband has a non-law job and a solid income, but she definitely out-earned him for the first several years of their career.

      Well, they moved for a job and she decided to leave BigLaw and then they had Kid #1. I don’t know that she was permanently planning to be a SAHM. She had banked a bunch of money from BigLaw, plus had the equity from selling her apartment. Her own retirement is pretty solid and I know that it was ‘her’ money that funded their down payment.

      They now live in a MCOL city and husband works a Big Job and she’s an active SAHM who has done some (10 hours/week?) pro-bono/very low cost legal work to keep her brain active. Honestly, it seems like an awesome set-up and I can see how she made it work because of her 7-8 years in BigLaw.

    13. Honest answer, about the point discussed in the question, and we probably have about $400,000 net worth — this is with starting with $150,000 in student loan debt and zero family help. We’d have more if it wasn’t for my husband getting his masters during my first few years in BigLaw and also frankly if we didn’t do things like blow $200 on a weeknight dinner date. With that said, we are probably in a better position that a lot of my colleagues who bought big houses as soon as the banks would let them and/or filled those houses with children.

    14. My perspective: 2015 grad (so six years in), started in BigLaw with market salaries but way-below-market bonuses and shifted to AmLaw25 two years ago, with market salary and (currently bonkers) bonuses.

      It took until this year to feel like we were okay. I graduated with $200K plus in student loans, lived alone for the first 4 years of BigLaw life in a HCOL city. I threw massive amounts of money at my student loans over and saved for a down payment. We are only now getting comfortable and my personal net worth is only about $100K once you take into account remaining balance on student loans, house equity and retirement account. However, we are now in a MUCH better financial position than we were even a year ago and I’m now considering exiting BigLaw for something else because I feel like we have our feet under us. I do not feel “set” though, as we contemplate raising kids in a HCOL city.

  12. For those of you who do microneedling – do you get it done at a cosmetic salon or a doctor’s office?

    I had it done it a few times before the pandemic at a cosmetic salon for 50 EUR per treatment and was considering starting again. The plastic surgeon who does my Botox mentioned at my last appointment mentioned that she also does microneedling, but for 250 EUR per session. Oof. Can anyone vouch for whether paying 5x the price for a plastic surgeon could possibly be worth it?

        1. I agree lamination just looks like a bad trend and it’s not a replacement for micro blading for someone who has lost her brows. Please think before you speak.

          3. Hey I’m not the one who doesn’t know the difference between micro needling and micro blading. But go ahead and roll your eyes at cancer and alopecia patients.

      2. I think you’re talking about something different. Microneedling has nothing to do with brows.

        OP, I would use a dr., because I’m really concerned about the cleanliness of those things, though I haven’t been brave enough to actually try it out.

      3. …I think you’re referring to microblading lol. And microblading isn’t dated if you go to a professional that does it based on your face and brow shape rather than “eyebrow trend”.

        Microneedling is a skin treatment.

      4. OP here – microneedling, not microblading :) but appreciate your input on microblading nonetheless, as I was also considering that but decided against it in the end! Will look into lamination.

    2. I don’t have a response to your question. But would you share the benefits you experienced from microneedling? I’ve considered it, but have not tried it.

      1. My goals were to improve skin texture and reduce the appearance of large pores. I only did it a few times and I think it helped, but will take some before & after photos next time to see if it really helps or not.

      2. Microneedling evangelist here. I love it, obviously. About 2 weeks after a treatment my skin is quite glowy, pores are non-existent, and things just feel “plump” for lack of a better word. I’ve been doing it a 3-6x a year since 2018, and feel like it gives me all the results really expensive skincare products promise but can’t actually deliver.

    3. Salon, but a registered nurse does it (I get it with PRP, which involves drawing blood). I buy 3 packs of sessions for ~$500 total, which is a huge steal in my city.

      One potential variable is the tool they use–I would only get microneedling done with a dermapen or similar, not a roller.

      Another concern is how long of needles they are allowed to use or will use. My place goes deep enough for me to bleed and peel but other places I’ve been were much more superficial and didn’t give me the results I was looking for.

      1. Thanks, these are good points to consider. The salon I went to was pretty superficial (redness afterwards but no bleeding or peeling) and I think the doc would definitely go deeper. She also does PRP so I will ask about a combo treatment.

  13. I do a lot of project management at work and I love it, but its not at all in my job title or description. I’m looking for a new job and would like to apply to project management jobs, or at least highlight that part of my work a bit more.

    How do you say . . .

    keep the train (project) on the tracks (going on time)
    make sure things are moving, and if not, find and fix whatever the issue is
    make systems for people to allow/force folks to communicate and not be in a silo

    in resume-speak?

    I’d say my biggest strengths are improving team transparency and communication, and surfacing problems/roadblocks/concerns early enough in the process that they can be fixed.

    1. Project managed X project with Y budget across Z teams for on-time completion, including resolving Q concerns with M level leadership to unblock.

        1. +1. The more specific you can be, the better. Saved $X, increased revenues by $Y, completed ahead of schedule, got buy-in from Z departments/staff.

    2. One strategy is to look up detailed job descriptions and use those on your resume.

      Another strategy is (separate paper, not your resume) wildly overexplain what you have done. Take that and cut it down to resume size and parse it into resume language.

      For example, you set up a meeting with accounting, engineering, supply chain, and sales, and it turns out that supply chain was hitting a problem sourcing a widget. You worked with engineering to figure out how to keep production on track despite the widget delay, got accounting and engineering to discuss cost impact, and got sales to know that lead times for other builds have changed. “Headed cross-functional group of X, Y, and Z departments to monitor progress; resolved problems to keep schedule, such as disruptions to supply chain; facilitated inter-departmental communication to resolve project spend issues.”

  14. Update. I bought the Nap Dress…wearing it now…and…it’s completely worth the hype. I will absolutely live in this dress. Caveat: I also live in a subtropical clime and prefer dresses/skirts generally.

      1. Hill House Home makes the original Nap Dress. I was originally opposed but then I bought one and adore it.

        1. Thanks. Can anyone share what they love about it? Does it look messy without ironing/steaming?

          1. It’s comfortable, cute, and on trend. I hang mine to dry and have never ironed or steamed it.

          2. Comfortable and flattering. Washes well. I air dry and then lightly touch up with an iron, but (a) you definitely don’t have to iron it if you hang it neatly to dry, and (b) I actually like ironing and will iron pretty much anything that’s not underwear or workout attire.

          3. It’s comfy and cute but definitely makes me look pregnant. Maybe it’s more flattering on shorter people.

      2. Hill House Home – Ellie. It’s by no means a “new” thing but I think they’ve elevated it nicely. Agree with Cat, it’s lovely.

    2. I have one and it’s super comfortable, but I think I want to get one of the panels removed so the hem hits a little closer to my knee. I look kind of dumpy in maxi dresses or skirts that hit well into the “mid-calf” zone. If I get another one, I might size down, too – I have really narrow shoulders so the bodice is bit looser than I anticipated.

      1. +1 on the sizing. They tell you to size down one from their *own* size chart for the Ellie and they are right. I’m a 34C and usually a 29 in jeans, ordered both the S and XS to try, and kept the XS. S wasn’t falling down or anything but XS looked better and more supportive in the bust. Go with the “size chart” size if you’re bustier, to make sure there’s enough smocking to extend down your torso a bit.

  15. I want to get Botox to correct my downturned mouth – has anyone else done this? Since it’s a little different than the typical Botox application, I’d like to see a plastic surgeon (instead of a medical aesthetician) because I feel like they would have a better understanding of how the muscles around your mouth “work” to make sure this won’t affect other facial expressions. However, it seems like most plastic surgery offices don’t have their doctors doing Botox, just medical aestheticians. Any experiences? Maybe I’m being overly cautious?

    2. I’m not a fan of a surgeon for injections, since that isn’t their speciality. Just because they know how muscles “work” in general doesn’t mean they spend enough time doing this specific type of medicine.

      You actually want someone who’s done what you want dozens if not hundreds of times, so ideally a doctor or nurse certified aesthetician who basically only does injections. My best luck has been with the a cosmetic dermatology office.

    3. I’d actually look into having an oral surgeon do this. A lot of them offer Botox, and they are the masters of muscles in this area.

    4. I would suggest going to a cosmetic dermatologist. I haven’t had botox for a downturned mouth before, but I have had botox done at medspas, plastic surgeon, and a cosmetic derm. I found that the derm had a superior understanding of what Botox can address, and was happy to tell me I don’t need it in certain areas or it wouldn’t fix anything in other areas. The plastic surgeons office and medspas used nurse injectors for Botox, and they all talked me into more and more units in more and more places.

    5. I saw my cosmetic derm for the same thing and she actually recommended small doses of filler. It definitely got rid of my RBF and should last 9-12 months. After the initial swelling went down, I’ve been happy with the results.

      1. Be careful with fillers. They last a LOT longer than previously thought (filler has been seen in MRI scans two (common) to 12 years (at an extreme) after fill. And it tends to migrate, so that whole area gets puffy. Definitely go much farther between fillers than your doc recommends.

  16. I’ve been invited to an outdoor potluck lunch on Thursday (yes, a bit odd) and have been asked to bring an entree. What does one bring for an outdoor entree?

    1. Same as every pot luck: Pigs in Blankets. I win (my platter is consumed first) every time I bring them. Tasty, bite size so no utensils required, picnic-ish because little hot dogs, and can be held and served at room temperature. Make them with Pillsbury crescent rolls and Little Smokeys and you’ll be a hero.

      2. Hah! I host a big holiday party every December (save for last year) with all the good food, serious cooking. When there were younger kids, I added pigs in a blanket (but mine are made with Hebrew National or Nathan’s). There is no way I could take now these off the menu. So many are consumed—trays and trays and trays—that my kitchen can barely accommodate the demand.

    3. My favorite for outdoor lunches are pre made subs/hoagies or build your own sandwiches. I have also done an orzo pasta salad with grilled chicken on the side (just pre grill chicken and serve cold). Some outdoor spaces have electricity available, if so i have done various crockpot dishes (pulled pork, mac and cheese).

    5. I’m a fan of skewers that are already cooked but could go on the grill to heat up. I’ve done shrimp and pineapple, and chicken satay with a peanut dipping sauce. Both get rave reviews. Veggie skewers are also an option.

      Since it’s lunch, mini sandwiches or sliders could also work. I’m thinking like a party platter you can get from a sub shop, but you could probably make something yourself too.

      1. Wow people find it acceptable to bring Chick Fil A to a party? You’d get serious side eye in my town.

          1. tell me you don’t have any gay friends without *telling* me you don’t have any gay friends.

            sounds to me like you’re the one with the narrow friend group.

        4. My “bubble” includes diverse members of the LGBTQ+ community so you won’t see any Chick Fil A at my events either.

      1. My husband brought KFC to every quarterly potluck one of his employers held for the entire 7 years he worked there and it was usually the biggest hit at the potluck. Some people would labor over these incredibly complex homemade dishes and my husband would come in with the bucket of KFC, and it would be gone within minutes. That and the Little Caesars Crazy Bread someone started bringing.

  17. I am at my wit’s end with an ahole colleague. He loves to play devil’s advocate and his complaints/edits to my work are nitpicky time-sucks that derail my progress constantly. My boss is aware, but has no power to change it, since he’s one of the SMEs with authority over our output. He’s also a super-religious MRA type and doesn’t hesitate to opine in that vein.

    How do you swallow down the bile when you actively loathe someone you have to work with constantly?

    1. Idk, but if you figure it out, let me know. I’m dealing with the exact same type of person minus the religious/MRA stuff (yikes) and it’s incredibly aggravating. I do all I can to avoid sending him work to review. His favorite thing is to pose Socratic questions in the comments pane instead of making edits directly.

    4. Make it into a game.
      -Make a couple bingo cards of all his terrible quirks and reward yourself (with your favorite drink after work, favorite takeout, a pedicure…whatever rocks your socks) when you “win” that day or week.
      -Try to guess how many of his nitpicks or inappropriate comments you’re going to encounter in a given day or week. Reward yourself accordingly.

      Easier said than done, but basically turn it from something that angers you into something that is…expected is the wrong phrase, but maybe akin to “there he goes again…” I’ve done this before with other colleagues and their weird behavior. Like one colleague who would always call me right after sending me an email, I would count in my head the seconds between when the email came in and my phone rang. I did a little dance every time it was under 5 seconds. Alternatively, think of yourself as studying him akin to how an anthropologist might study an uncontacted tribe.

    5. While we didn’t work together constantly, I worked with someone like this – I did my best to nitpick him back and assiduously documented everything he did or did not do so if he complained about me or my team, I had the email/response/note at the ready. Though I’m usually pretty amiable and chatty at work, I kept him at a very arms-length distance.

      I tried to console myself with the thought that given his worldview, my very presence in the workplace was an irritant to him. It helped that the look on his face was generally something like, “Why are you HERE? You’re not bringing me coffee or washing dishes.” I’ve always thought of myself as pretty much David Brooks’ greatest living nightmare, a scourge on the Ross Douthats of the worlds, basically, the blue state feminist everyone warns young men about at youth group. But honestly, I was just glad when he left.

  18. Anyone else constantly sick now that things are opening back up? My immune system must be crap, because I am dealing with the second chest cold in the last month alone. My office fully reopened in May, and we are supposed to report to HR if we have “covid symptoms”. I feel like the I have covid symptoms more often than not lately and I’m honestly embarrassed about it. I feel like its not believable and people will think I just want to WFH. I do want to WFH but also don’t want to come in and spew germs everywhere and feel like crap.

    1. Get tested on a regular basis. That’s all you can (and should) do if your employer is making you come in.

    2. I was constantly stick before the lockdown, and then I didn’t get sick for more than a year. I talked to my doctor about it and ended up getting immune deficiency testing. It explains a lot!

      1. Do you have an immune deficiency? Diagnosis tends to be so late for most people – I only find out I have one by chance myself. Most doctors seem to be unaware that it’s not normal to have multiple infections per year.

    3. Apparently this is very common! I’m in the same boat and read that a lot of people have super weak immune systems right now from not being exposed to a normal level of germs for a year plus.

    4. My entire family has had a headcold (ie COVID symptoms) for the past 3 weeks. My MIL came to visit for a week, and as is happening more and more these days, got a call. (Vaccinated) MIL and FIL had dinner with (vaccinated) friend 1, during which friend 1 had the beginnings of a head cold. Friend 1 found out that two days before having dinner with MIL and FIL the (vaccinated) guy [Friend 2] he’d been playing cards with not only has COVID but is also hospitalized. Friend 1 took a COVID test and it was positive.

      So now, (vaccinated) Friend 2 is hospitalized with COVID, (vaccinated) Friend 1 has COVID with mild symptoms, MIL freaked out that she was unknowingly exposed and flew across the country to stay with us and potentially exposed us. (vaccinated) MIL, (vaccinated) FIL, (vaccinated) me, (vaccinated) DH, and all 4 kids <12 all get COVID tests. All negative. And yet we all have headcolds and have been sniffling nonstop wondering if they were false negatives.

      I am So. Over. This.

      1. I’m sorry, that’s awful. Hope you feel better soon.

        I remember a while back they found a very disproportionately small number of people were spreading covid/ it’s less that everyone is very contagious and more that some people are REALLY contagious. So might just be coincidence that you’re sick and that Friend 1 isn’t very contagious.

      2. Your MIL flew across the country after potential exposure to stay with you? I would be livid. How inconsiderate, I would have kicked her out immediately.

        1. She didn’t know! She found out while she was here and felt terrible. All she knew is that she went to dinner with her fully vaccinated friend. That friend tested for COVID after she arrived, was positive, called her and she immediately got tested, offered to fly home (no!!!) or get a hotel. She was negative and then tested again two days later and was still negative.

        2. Not the OP but it sounds like her MIL didn’t find out about the exposure until after she flew

    5. Yep, had both a stomach bug and the worst cold ever in the same month in June, after not being sick at all in about 2.5 years. Gross things are going around. Get tested for peace of mind, and your coworkers will appreciate you staying home.

    6. Somebody linked (maybe Cat last week?) to a New York Times article about getting sick more frequently. Google it — it’s a real thing.

  19. I’m in charge of employee well being for my small-ish team. Any ideas to assess well being or ideas for fun ways to engage everyone (fun meetings, no meeting Fridays, etc.)? In general ideas to relax and have fun while in a virtual/remote setting.

    1. Is a Friday afternoon off or a Monday morning off (don’t start working until 1:00 p.m.) an option? That’s what I really want to relax, especially if it’s during hours when my kids are in camp or school. But it clearly isn’t team building.

    2. No to more meetings or Zooms please. Please. No matter how cheerful the subject matter, a “fun meeting” is still… a meeting.

      What would be nice – “summer Fridays” rule that everyone can get up from the desk early.

    4. Ultimately, I think all everyone wants for moral support at work is time and/or money. So: additional paid time off in some form, or a bonus in the form of cash or a very versatile gift card that might as well be cash.

    5. Covering cost of a lunch or happy hour drinks and logging off on a Friday at 3pm when they can actually enjoy the time rather than know that they’ll be making up the time over the weekend.

  20. About 8 months ago I started exclusively dating a coworker after becoming really close friends over the course of the previous year. I’m in senior management and he is an executive in another, unrelated business unit. I disclosed to my boss and to our HR representative. There’s no policy against it. I heard some other execs (who I didn’t know knew) were joking about denying my comp request because I’m now on “two incomes” and I think I need Internet strangers to tell me I haven’t torpedoed my reputation/career. Fwiw, he is truly the best and one of my favorite humans ever.

    *facepalm*

    1. Why is it okay to “joke” about denying a woman her earned compensation because she’s married/partnered? I notice that they aren’t joking about denying HIS compensation request.

      1. I agree. You are entitled to your increased compensation even if you do wind up gettng a lot of free meals paid for by him when you go out. After all, even if you get the meals for free, he gets the dessert from you for free, and the fair market value of similar desserts would otherwise cost him at least the cost of a good dinner, so it’s a wash in my book. It may be different in the future if you wind up getting married to him, but only if you move in together first.

        Did anyone see Simone Biles’ Olympic performance? We watched the replay on Peacock TV at work and she did great! I am so proud of her for getting over the “twisties” in time for her last event.

    2. That’s terrible, and I’m sure they’re not saying the same thing about your SO’s compensation. How did you find out about these comments?

    3. I’m way, way more grossed out by executives joking about denying a woman’s compensation based on her marital/relationship status. If you have torpedoed your job at this org because these guys no longer take you seriously for having a boyfriend, get out fast because that place is toxic.

    4. I’d probably go straight to your SO and HR. I’d definitely report this to HR. Maybe you don’t have to name names, but I’d definitely make them aware of the comments that you heard so HR knows not to mess with your comp come raise/bonus time.

    5. I met my spouse at work. We had to navigate some complexities and ultimately I left that company for a better job, partially motivated by how moving to a new employer would make my work life less complicated. Pursuing that relationship was very complicated…but 22 years later I am here to say that it was so worth it.

      Also, those remarks sound really gross. Women get to be paid what we are worth even if we are partnered. Eff ‘em. If you get a whiff of that type of feedback from a supervisor, document it with HR.

  21. What’s your favorite ergonomic keyboard and/or mouse? Since it seems like most of this stuff is designed for an average man’s hand, I’d love to hear from anyone who has found good equipment for smaller hands. I’m looking at a split keyboard (logitech ergo k860) but am concerned that the distance from Shift to the middle keys (h, g, t, etc.) will be such a stretch as to undo some of the ergonomic benefits. Currently I use a mac magic keyboard, and the size is right for my hands, but want a more ergonomic layout. I also bought a thumb trackball mouse, which I think I like, but again seems a tad large for my hands.

    1. Evoluent mouse, they have small versions. https://evoluent.com/ Have used this for about 10 years after a wrist injury (and a death grip on the traditional mouse setup). My favorite is that there are 6 programmable buttons, so i no longer have to double click, becuase i have a button for that. There are wired and wireless versions. The scroll function isn’t smooth but that’s the only drawback and i am so used to it it doesnt bother me, I just set the scrolling to 5 lines instead of the larger default and it’s barely noticable.

      1. I use this as well, the wireless version. Just note that if you’re on a Mac, the programmable buttons don’t work. I couldn’t get them to acknowledge on two gens of MacBook Pros or on an iMac.

      2. Another note: apparently Evoluent does not accommodate those who have small hands AND use a left hand mouse.

  22. Best spots to grab food in Seattle??
    Quick trip from the Bay Area – love all food looking for spots with great views or ambiance and great food – just a me and my 20 yo son.

    Staying at The Edgewater and doing typical stuff plus water taxi to west Seattle (I forget name but we already have fabulous restaurant in mind there – fish and chips) and ferry to Bainbridge

    1. Not sure if you will see this but take the water taxi over to W. Seattle (about ten mins) and try Marination Station. It’s right on the water and beautiful. Also walk down to Pike Place and there’s all kinds of places to eat there. There’s also a backside of the market that has a brewery and a beautiful patio with views.

      Other suggestion is Sawyer in Ballard. Also there’s so much good Vietnamese and Thai food. Can’t really go wrong.

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