This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Whoever said fringed pink eyelash appliques don't have a place on a $3,000 wool blazer is clearly drinking crazy juice: look how great it is! In a refreshing twist, I particularly like that while most zany workwear is of the “business in the front, party in the back” model, this one looks totally plain from the back — so if your boss first sees you walking away from him or her in the hall, it will be a pleasant surprise when they see you face-to-face later in the day. (I suppose it makes sense — you don't have eyes on your back, now, do you? Der.) The blazer is $3,000 at Neiman Marcus. Libertine Two-Button Blazer with Eye Appliques
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected].
Psst: Curious what we've posted on this day in years past? Check 'em out here.
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
SA
My eyes about fell out of my head.
And then I realized what day it is!
I need a belt. Does anyone have cute, sleek suggestions fro a belt to wear with too stretchy jeans and maybe some odd fitting pants?
Cb
I’m pretty obsessed with the skirt though – are those planets? 10 year old astronomy nerd me would have killed for a solar system dress. (TBH- so would 31 y/o me)
heatherskib
It’s like a sophisticated version of Ms. Frizzle’s Shirt dresses. I swear if I ever become a teacher… I will be Miss Frizzle!
CPA Lady
If you like that skirt, you should look for the website STARtorialist — its like the sartorialist but written by two scientists who post science (mostly astronomy) themed clothes.
Cb
I definitely want to be Ms Frizzle when I grow up – I have a dress with books on it. I work in politics and would quite like a dress with ballot boxes on it.
Out of Place Engineer
Oh, thank you for sharing this website! I LOVE it and may have just bought one or two items highlighted…..
Anonymous
This skirt also has a Salvador Dali clock! and a fragment of his mustache!
Back to the jacket, other items by this designer are pretty awesome, too. I am sure they will sell out by the end of today.
Idea
It’s out of this world!
Flamingo
Yessss!
lsw
This is such a great pick for today. I want to know who buys this…and the animal-looking slippers a commenter posted the other day.
mascot
Those slippers were simply amazing. Pretty sure my dogs were bark at them and then turn thenm into chew toys.
lsw
I still can’t believe they are real!
April Fool
Love it – just the thing to spend our tax refunds and/or bonuses on, right girls?
Sydney Bristow
The styling is out of this world.
lawsuited
Bahahahaha!
feet
For years I have wondered my my work pants don’t seem to look right with my heels, although I am careful about hemming them appropriately.
My feet are pretty long (like, I can’t ever find my shoe size in stock in the stores, so I love the internet…). I just had a realization that maybe pointy tip shoes are not flattering for me because they just make my feet look bigger.
Those with large feet, am I right?
size 11
I’m a size 11 and I don’t wear pointy toed flats for sure. I stick to more rounded toe heels, but have a few pairs of pointed toes– I definitely don’t wear them often though.
So…I think you’re right?
Catlady
Girl, I wear a size 12 and I feel your pain. I usually wear a rounded toe but it has more to do with comfort than style. It is possible that they’re making your feet look bigger. I’ve found that shoe proportions for larger sizes make any kind of lengthening look obvious.
Anonymity
I’ve suspected the same about myself. My feet are average — 7.5. But I’m only 5’1″. And a bit scrawny.
bigfoot
I wear size 10-10.5, definitely avoid pointy-toe flats, and prefer almond or rounded toe heels. I don’t really care what’s in style, pointy toes look like elf or clown shoes on me.
feet
Thanks for all of your posts.
I think this is also a reason why I lean toward heels, as they help “shorten” my foot.
And now I realize that even though I hem my pants appropriately (I wear mostly wider leg, or a subtle flare in my pants), why they always “look” too short even though they are not. It is because the top of my foot looks SO LONG because my feet are bigger, so it gives the illusion that the pants are too short because too much of my foot appears to be exposed.
And now I know why the on trend ankle pants look really crazy on me. Then my feet look huge. I need a wider leg/hem to hide part of my foot.
So now a second question….. For those of us with generous feet, what is your favorite 3″ heel for work? Now I realize the top of the shoe, how much toe/toe cleavage is covered, and the shape of the toe is important.
Anonymous
I have average sized feet (7.5) and even I feel like I’m wearing clown shoes when I wear pointy toes!
Lyssa
Ditto. I think that a point is really easy to overdo. Of course, I also don’t like round toes, so it’s a constant struggle to find something that hits the just right in-between spot.
#thestruggleisreal
CountC
Me three. 7.5er here and I only own one pair of pointy toed flats because I feel like I am wearing clown shoes!
Anonymous
Honestly, I feel that nobody cares about your feet and how big or small they are. It’s not unprofessional or unflattering to have big feet.
fiona
Well… this is a fashion blog. This is where we come to ask these questions.
And if you are a nobody that doesn’t care, why post?
Anonymous
I’m not saying she shouldn’t ask the question… but she asked, and that is my opinion. Usually feet are proportional to the rest of your body, and an extra inch or two isn’t something that draws my eye as oddly disproportionate. I suppose it may be different if you’re 5’0″ with a slight build and rocking size 12’s. There are enough things to worry about, why add foot size to the list?
fiona
Clearly you are not a person with large feet.
No, your body is not always proportional to your feet. THAT is the whole point.
When I was 10, I was a Tomboy that wanted to be a basketball player when I grew up. My feet were huge, and people told me that I was going to grow into them…. so I was excited. But I never grew into them.
We all have our quirks. We spend a lot of time on this site talking about how to hide/deal with various body variations. This is just another. And if you haven’t had people specifically point out your feet to you… many times in your life… then clearly this thread isn’t for you.
Anonymous
Well Fiona, I myself have size 11’s and no, I don’t feel self-conscious about it or that I need to dress to minimize the size of my feet because of it. We all have different opinions and experiences. If you didn’t want people to share a different opinion, maybe you shouldn’t have asked or read along a thread where someone asked for opinions? I’m not trying to offend you, but my opinion is that many people do not give much thought to the size of another person’s feet.
OP here
Well Anon, I am the OP and you did seem to miss the point. I did want opinions on shoe styles relative to work pant legs etc.. that would work for me, and you gave no opinions about that. You just were a bit… snide I guess. Great you don’t need any help!
Ellen
Yay! I love April Fool’s and this sp’oof! Once I saw that it was NOT Fruegel Friday’s, I knew some thing was a miss!
As for the OP, I think men do care if you have big feet. My secretary Lynn has big feet, and this is what Mason liked about her. I am NOT sure why, but he did mention that if it were NOT for her big feet, he would NOT be dateing her. So Ladie’s, do NOT give up hope if you have BIG feet (bigger then size 9). There are men out there for you.
This weekend, I am goieng with Myrna to an art exhibition. I never go, but she know’s someone who got us passes, so I will learn art. Mabye that is what I need to attract a sophistecated MAN who will want to MARRY me, both for my culineary skills as well as my knoledge of Art. I hope so. I need SOME kind of an edge over all the women in NYC who seem to be abel to snag the decent men. FOOEY!
Anon
I love you, Ellen… no fooling!
Mpls
Eh – I think pointy toe can be tricky (size 11), but not impossible to pull off. I mostly avoid the pointy toe because it tends to trip me when I’m walking. I mean, I can trip on my own feet without anything else hanging off the front end of my foot.
But, if enough of my forefoot is covered, I wouldn’t rule out a pointy toe. But that’s the trick – there are a lot of shoes that don’t change the depth of the toebox/vamp (whatever it’s called) as they size up the shoe, so you have the same coverage whether you are a 7 or an 11. And what is cute at a size 7 looks weird for an 11.
I really like the Cole Haan and Banana Republic heels that I’ve gotten over the past few years – I feel like both do a good job of keeping the material in the shoe proportional to the size.
Anonymous
This is so true.
Anonymous
From the opposite end… I’m 5’6″ with size 6, and pointy shoes help me look in proportion. I think you may be on to something.
MJ
So, yeah. I am an 11.5 or 12. I tend to avoid exaggerated pointy toes, especially in flats, but more squared points are OK. Overall, prefer rounded toes for comfort and because they wear better over time. I also squeezed my feet into 11s for years and years until my dad commented that my toes were getting gnarled. Oops.
Anyway, I am at peace with how big my feet are. They are big! I have friends whose entire shoes fit INSIDE my own shoes :) I have crazy long legs, and my feet are proportional. I also have thin feet and tiny ankles, so I don’t look gallumphy. I was definitely self-conscious when I was younger, and I was also pissed that a lot of my teammates in college (I was average height on my team at 5’11”) had way smaller feet. Not fair. But, like I said, I am cool with it.
I haven’t had issues with hemming my pants other than making sure I get pants that are long enough. I wear ankle pants fairly frequently, but they tend to look more casual on me because more skin is showing, as you said. Capris look ridiculous on me in a work setting. I mostly wear skirts. And I only worry about wearing heels that are high if I am going to an important meeting with clients and I know the clients are really short men (so I don’t want to be Amazonian). But I’m tall. Not something I can change. And I look darn good in heels.
My all time favorite heels are Stuart Weitzmans. They don’t make the Platswoon any more, but I have been eyeing the Pinot, which are similar to the SWs that I wore from 2000 to 2006 or so (I had multiple pairs, but they really wear like iron). SWs are worth it.
Mpls
I have an uncle (6’3″) with smaller feet than I do (at 5’10”)
MJ
Yep. My brother is 6’5″ and my feet are only a smidge smaller than his. Not fair! Also, I have longer legs than he does (he’s long torso, short legs). I’m the opposite. Honestly, I am grateful for my health and my feet have taken me to 40+ countries and a lot of cool jobs, so I am proud of them! ;)
Anonymous
I’m a size 11 and wear pointy toed shoes often. I found ones that show a lot of foot are ok, especially with skirts or dresses. I’m wearing a pair of BR Capras today that look fine. However, I hate the way slip ons (eg Vans) or converse or sneakers look with skinny jeans or slim-leg pants.
A
I wear a size 9 but have skinny legs, I never white or light shoes that are pointy for that reason.i feel like a clown with shoes 2 feet long. I will wear dark square heels tho’, less obvious. I think a low vamp looks a bit acceptable (to/on me) for ankle or Capri length as well
Anon
Looking for advice/support…
Any gay ladies here? Are you “out” in your professional lives? How has that impacted your career and work relationships? Do you think it matters if you are newer in your career vs. more established?
FWIW- I practice law in a conservative industry, but geographically am located in a liberal area
Cat
I’m not gay, but have worked with many “out” colleagues (men and women, Biglaw and in-house). The only time anyone has given two sh*ts about it is that one associate never referred to her wife by name — it was always “my wife and I” — and people were kind of like, we get it, you’re gay, we don’t care, after you’ve mentioned “my wife Beatrice” once or twice, just say “Beatrice and I” for god’s sake! No one else (straight or gay for that matter) only calls their spouse “my wife” or “my husband” when referring to them in conversation!
Anonymous
Yeah they do! Lots of people do. You just only notice the gays doing it.
Suburban
+1 sorry, cat. I’m sure you meant this comment to be inclusive, but this comes off like your coworkers were saying: “I don’t mind that she’s gay but she’s always rubbing it our faces,” which always strikes me as the modern homophobic battle cry.
Anonymous
Um, I worked at one firm for almost 5 years and I don’t think my colleagues even knew my husband’s name (I’m a woman) because I always just said “my husband and I…” Lots of straight people refer to their spouses that way. It wasn’t a place where people cared a lot about your personal life so I thought it would be kind of presumptuous to expect them learn and remember my husband’s name. If I were Beatrice I would think you guys were serious homophobes for judging her for what is pretty normal behavior.
Cat
Ok before you all pile on, the culture at the office was such that everyone knew spouse’s names (and kid’s names too for the most part) and referred to them by first names only, and this associate never even mentioned her wife’s real name! I remember being embarrassed that I’d forgotten one partner’s husband’s name (I couldn’t remember if it was her son or her husband that was named Scott) and asking an office friend to help me out before I went in her office for a meeting.
Anonymous
Ok, but the assumption that she was doing that because she’s gay is homophobic. I would refer to my husband as “my husband” regardless of the office culture, because it feels more natural to me. I like to keep kind of a wall up between my personal and private life and not using his name makes me feel more comfortable. It’s fine to say that it was odd of her to do this or that it was out of place in your office, but I don’t know why your mind goes to the fact that it had anything to do with her orientation.
Cat
I can see how it would come off that way — it would be better to equate it to the Seinfeld episode where the one lady keeps saying “my FIANCE” — out of step with office culture. I’ll admit it was probably more noticeable because of her orientation, which isn’t fair, but the OP was asking for people’s perspectives on the workplace so I don’t mind admitting it. All that said, no one treated her any differently professionally at all, she was actually well regarded with respect to her work product.
WestCoast Lawyer
We all make biased judgments and assumptions from time to time. While we can learn to recognize them and try to avoid them in the future, calling someone homophobic implies a strong level of animosity that I just don’t see in Cat’s comment.
Opal
+ 1000, WestCoast Lawyer
Aunt Jamesina
I’m straight, and I say “my husband” all the time because I don’t expect all of my colleague’s to remember or know his name.
Aunt Jamesina
OMG, no apostrophe. Gah.
Anonymous
I say “my husband” because he has the same name as one of my co-workers.
NYNY
You just Ellened!
Aunt Jamesina
NYNY, I thought the same thing! I’ll blame her.
Anon
I’m say “my spouse” instead of “my husband” it’s a way to check my hetero privilege
emeralds
I’m not gay myself, but I have a TON of friends and colleagues who identify with some part of LGBTQIA++etc. etc. identities. I’m fortunate to work in a very LGBT-friendly industry, higher education (leaving out the Liberty and Patrick Henry fringe), and have never heard one of my US-based colleagues or friends identify being gay as a barrier to their professional success. The longtime president of my prior organization is gay, along with several valued senior-level leaders and assorted staff; I know faculty, staff, and I believe some provost-level leadership in my current large, multi-campus, research 1 university identify as LGB.
I’ve always had LGBT friends and consider myself a strong ally (I was a founding member of my high school’s Gay/Straight Alliance, for example). I don’t know what industry you work in, so I can’t give you any specific thoughts there…but I will say this: it’s 2016. Obviously you get to set your own standards and comfort level with being out in the office or wherever else you like, because that is your right. But any human being, whether you know them in a professional or social context, whether you’ve been out of school for two years or 25, who judges you for being gay: that’s on them and they can go f*ck themselves. You are wonderful the way you are.
Aunt Jamesina
I know you’re trying to be supportive of the OP, but you should understand that in MANY parts of the country and in many industries, being gay is absolutely a barrier. Your message comes across as dismissive and a bit patronizing; your colleagues may not have experienced this issue (or they haven’t fully shared their experiences with you), that doesn’t mean the OP doesn’t have very valid concerns that are very real.
A lot of discrimination is under the radar and might not be intentional by the party doing it or noticed by the party on the receiving end. Yes, it is 2016 and this shouldn’t be an issue any more, but saying that prejudice and discrimination is the problem of the party doing it isn’t helpful when it directly impacts your life.
CountC
Agreed. Academia is particularly liberal and left-leaning, so that’s not really a good comparison for someone working in a traditionally conservative field where this sort of thing can absolutely affect your professional career if you work in an intolerant environment.
CountC
Woah, holy run-on sentence Batman. Bring back the edit feature!!
emeralds
My apologies to any LGBTQ readers who found my post dismissive or patronizing–I was writing quickly and didn’t think everything that I wrote through all the way. I didn’t mean to be dismissive, and should have been clearer that my first paragraph was only meant to describe my specific industry, and the candid conversations that I’ve had with my own specific colleagues and friends (who, clearly, could have chosen to not tell me parts of their experiences). Obviously that doesn’t generalize to everyone in higher ed, and I didn’t mean to sound like higher ed doesn’t still have some profound reckoning to do with LGBTQ inclusion, because it definitely does.
But I will stand by my beliefs that 1) you get to set your own comfort level with being out in the workplace, informed by your industry and area, which you know much better than I (or anyone else) do; and that 2) people who don’t support you if and when you choose to make them aware of your sexual orientation, can still go f*ck themselves.
JJ
I think it completely depends on your law firm’s culture. I’m not gay but have extremely close friends and coworkers that are. We discuss this issue a lot. The first firm I worked at – being gay would absolutely be a barrier to professional development. But, that was an awful place to work and being 1) a woman; 2) gay; 3) minority; 4) competent; or 5) ethical, were also barriers to career advancement.
In my second firm, being gay/trans/questioning or anything like that would have zero effect on your career development. It had a very action LGBTQ affinity group, and they were incredibly welcoming to newer attorneys. The older attorneys wanted to make sure the younger ones (less established in their career) were comfortable to be themselves, if they chose to.
OP
Thank you all for your comments. I don’t want to make it a thing, I just want to be able to talk about normal life things that include my partner just like everyone else… Oo and stop having people try to set me up on dates ;)
Anon in NYC
If you are located in a liberal area, I think most people wouldn’t care at all about who you date. And I would just be casual about it. It’s not like you have to come out to your coworkers, but if someone asks you what you did over the weekend you could say something like, “I went on a great date. She seemed really cool, and the restaurant, X, was amazing. Have you ever eaten there?” or “Susie and I went to the museum and saw this really great exhibit.”
Sydney Bristow
My coworker is out at work like this. There wasn’t ever a moment, just that he mentions things about his partner like I mention my husband. It’s never seemed like a thing, just a fact about him. I think you can talk about your partner in the same way your coworkers talk about their significant others. Granted, I’m in NYC and grew up in a very liberal place so it’s never seemed like a big deal but that might be different in other locations.
been there, done that
Queer senior associate in big conservative law here. I definitely played my cards very very close to the chest for the first few years. Sure it’s a “liberal city,” for what that’s worth. Sure my firm has an LGBT affinity group. That didn’t mean I was comfortable coming out as a summer associate, for example. No way. I did come out within my practice group after a year or two. Slowly and very casually, like, “oh, yeah, my girlfriend and I are going to the X,” etc. Very low drama. I only did that once I knew my colleagues a bit, particularly the extremely politically and socially conservative junior partner (who hates me, btw, but he loathes everybody so. whatever).
Here’s the thing though. You *have to* do you here. If you want to come out so you can participate in the casual conversations without feeling that you’re withholding part of yourself, go for it. I certainly internally winced through any number of awkward smalltalky “so what does your husband do?” conversations, and still do. But don’t let any of the straight people above tell you that it’s 2016 and therefore blah blah blah. They haven’t walked in your shoes. They haven’t had everyone from medical professionals to attorneys look at you *holding hands with your wife* and say “oh, you brought your sister, that’s nice.” Or had colleagues gossip behind their backs or to their faces about how, exactly, in graphic detail, you conceived your child, since, “well, you know, you have to wonder.” Homophobia is subtle, and it is pervasive, is what I’m saying. You probably know this, op. I mean, you’re asking the question. It is part of my big law firm culture, as it is also part of the culture of my “liberal city,” and in my liberal friends, as I occasionally and painfully discover. I don’;t regret coming out at the firm, but I also for a second do not regret the year and change I spent carefully considering it and finding my place in the practice group first.
So yeah. You’ve got to find your own road here. Mine was very careful and quiet. Yours will differ, in whatever way suits you. But yes, coming out is complicated, and continues to be so, and anyone who tells you otherwise is, well, probably straight.
emeralds
FWIW, I fully meant the 2016 comment to be reflecting poorly on anyone who would judge someone for their sexual orientation, NOT as any kind of directive that someone should be out if they don’t want to!!! Nonononono. Would never presume. So so sorry if it came across that way. I just want to throw ALL OF THE SHADE on those slimedwelling asshats who still think being gay is a “lifestyle choice” or WTF ever in 2016.
emeralds
Think I might be in moderation? But FWIW, I fully meant the 2016 comment to be reflecting poorly on anyone who would judge someone for their sexual orientation, NOT as any kind of directive that someone should be out if they don’t want to!!! Nonononono. Would never presume. So so sorry if it came across that way. I just want to throw ALL OF THE SHADE on those slimedwellers who still think being gay is a “negative lifestyle choice” or whatever in 2016.
Anonymous
I’ll preface this by saying that I live and work in Toronto, which is a pretty LGBTQ-friendly area, so I’m sure that affects my perspective. I’ve seen it done 2 ways in my firm. A male colleague casually mentioned his spouse in his interview and after being hired openly discussed buying a house and planning a wedding with his spouse as part of chit chat with co-workers and clients, and brought his spouse to our firm events from the get-go. He would say that it hasn’t impacted his work relationships, and based on what I’ve heard said about him by co-workers and clients, I’d say that’s true. By contrast, a female colleague worked here for 2 years before speaking about her spouse, and I think people were taken aback when finding out she was gay, I think only because they had been able to assume for the past 2 years that she was straight (obviously it’s stupid for people to assume other people are straight, but a lot do) and then had to adjust. Of the 2 approaches, I think my male colleague’s was the most seamless, but I also appreciate that he’s a man which may have made it easier for him.
Meara
Hahah! In my very first job I was not out, but it wasn’t a very close group. The next company was much more “let’s all do happy hour” (and I’m still friends with several of them) and I was very out. But these days I work remotely, so other than some folks mentioning their kids (usually re: out of office time) nobody really chit chats about personal life, so I guess technical I haven’t been? Except for one project several years ago where we had an in-person team meeting, they were all married, and talking about how awesome it is (…after a few drinks) and someone wanted to set me up with her nephew who lived in my city and I was like “oh, no thanks, I’m gay”, and then one of them was all “omg being gay married is awesome too I’m sure!” This being before it was legal (and in Texas) it was a bit awkward…
Meara
I also just want to add I’m very aware of my privilege here, in being able to “choose” whether to be closeted or not, in any given situation. My friends who aren’t as femme-presenting as I am don’t really have the choice.
Anonymous
I’m not gay, but work in a conservative industry in a liberal area and know several gay men professionally, but no out women. I don’t think I’ve ever given it a second thought, and the men are at all levels of the organization, so it doesn’t seem a barrier to advancement at all. Most of the time, I feel like people slip a “my husband/partner/boyfriend” into conversation casually early in our acquaintance, which I appreciate so that I don’t put my foot in my mouth later. I’m more likely to notice when someone is very, very careful never to use a name or gender identifier for their SO or in conversations about dating. It’s the question mark that is noticeable to me, the answer is irrelevant as long as there’s an answer. I do know several gay women -at least a few of whom seem to be very successful professionals- in my neighborhood and at my kids’ daycare. They’re all just people, and I like or dislike them on their own merits as individuals, irrespective of their orientation. I sincerely hope you are able to share your personal life at work to whatever extent you’re comfortable without any professional impact.
Anonymous
When I was in Big Law litigation in California, I knew several women who were out. One was one of the firm’s biggest rainmakers and another was on the management committee, so (purely anecdata, I realize), out lesbians were doing disproportionately well compared to all women.
Anonymous
Biglaw in the Bay Area here. I have several out colleagues in my office, both male and female (I am not aware of any transgender persons in the firm), including several out partners who bring their husbands/wives to firm events and/or their children (most of whom are obviously transracial adoptions). Sitting from my position of straight privilege and therefore at least some degree of ignorance, it ain’t no thing here. As one piece of anecdata, multiple offices of the firm really rallied behind one person whose same-sex spouse got very sick for a time.
I love my liberal bubble life.
Rose City Roller
Yes, I’m gay and was in law for about 5 years before switching to the business side a couple of years ago. I’m in a very liberal PNW city but was in a large conservative firm for the first couple of years. I’m very feminine and definitely surprise people when I come out, but I decided very early on that I was never going to act like being gay was anything other than completely normal–meaning I even said “my wife” in an interview if it made sense (not in an intentional way, just if it was the natural thing to do regardless of spouse’s gender). I mainly did this because that was the only way to avoid having a “coming out” moment down the line, which felt less comfortable to me–but I definitely see the benefit of delaying until you know your audience.
I was fortunate that no one batted an eye–other than the occasional older male partner–and I actually think being a woman was more of a barrier to success at that firm than being gay was. I would say that having a wife who is extremely easygoing and social–meaning I’m proud to have her with me at work events–also helped me feel comfortable being out at work.
Now that I’m on the business side–still in the liberal city–there’s no question that gay is ok. I actually even think it’s helpful sometimes when a business wants to pride itself on diversity. (This can take me down a whole line of ranting about tokenism and “safe” inclusiveness and all of that, but I’ll save that for another day.)
When I find myself needing to come out–like I realize a group I’m working with has said things that presume straightness–I usually find a way to bring up my family with one or two friendly people. The news always gets around, and those couple of people end up feeling like allies, even if I don’t particularly need allies in that situation.
I realize I’m extremely lucky to live in such a comfortable bubble of a city, and that this question is much tougher elsewhere, but thought I’d share my thoughts in case they help at all. :)
Prosecutor
I’m a criminal prosecutor in a town of about 120k people. It’s a conservative town in a fairly progressive state. I am very out, though people are sometimes surprised because I don’t fit their stereotypes. I decided when I moved here (as a law clerk) that I wasn’t going to hide; I chose to share things about my partner in the same way others shared things about their significant others. Even in this conservative place, most people haven’t had issues. As far as I know, I’m the only (out) LGBTQ attorney in the county.
Anon
I could use your advice. I’m trying to be as anonymous as possible about this so please let me know if any of this does not make sense.
I work full time in IT consulting and I am considering law school part time. A legal education would open doors for me related to what I already do (IT Governance/Risk/Compliance). I have seen job postings for Information Governance/Privacy Attorneys and I feel like the field is only going to grow along with evolving concerns about cyber security and privacy. I also already have a masters in the information management field. I am looking at attending a state school (in the tier 2 range) with in state tuition. I haven’t even applied yet, but if I take the LSAT in June I can get in to start this fall. I make enough that I could pay for it outright, but I do have some leftover debt.
I have two concerns. First, has anyone done law school part time while simultaneously working a demanding job? Is it a nightmare? Will I hate my life for four years? I am married, but no kids and no plans to have them for the foreseeable future.
Second, how do I position this to my boss? All I’m asking for is understanding. I’m not expecting any kind of tuition reimbursement or financial assistance. However, once I graduate there will be no reason to stay at this company. Our firm does not have a strong advisory practice in the privacy area. I will likely move on to find an in-house role.
Any advice you ladies can provide is much appreciated!
Anonymous
I work in IT GRC, and went to school part time while working full time. Not law school, but similar rigor, and similar financial situation to what you described. When I was married with no kids, it was totally doable. Once I had kids, it was exhausting and a nightmare, and I eventually postponed plans indefinitely. All that to say, if you want to do this, and you have any plans of having kids “someday,” do school now. Don’t waffle about it and put yourself in a position where young children, professional full time job, and school are all happening concurrently.
Anonymous
Oh, and to add. I never had a sit-down conversation with my boss about school. It came up casually in conversation eventually along the lines of “oh, I’m studying for a final this weekend” but as far as I was concerned, it was my hobby outside of work hours and none of his business. The nature of what I was studying made it obvious that I would leave the company when I finished.
If you’re not seeking tuition reimbursement, I’d wait and see how much it really impacts your work before you bring it up. If these are evening classes, and you work normal hours, you only need to make sure you get out of work on time. That’s a scheduling issue, not something that requires a discussion of your life plans. I’m not saying keep it a secret, but I would not make it A Thing.
OP
Thank you for your input! The only potential for it to become A Thing is if I get put on a project with travel. Not all of our projects are travel heavy, and I’m finding that clients are opting for smaller travel budgets more often anyway. If it were to come up, I would emphasize that I’m willing to get in as early as necessary to get sh*t done for the duration.
Greensleeves
I also went to law school part time while working full time. I wouldn’t call either of my jobs during law school demanding, though, at least not from an hours standpoint. I was generally working 40 hours per week. I was married but had no kids, and my husband was studying for professional examinations throughout the time I was in law school. I think that made it easier, because we both spent all of our spare time studying and neither of us was frustrated about the other’s lack of free time. I found it very manageable, although it was an intense four years. I would not have been able to manage had there been children in the mix – I always said that out of working FT, law school and kids, I could only handle 2 out of 3 at the same time. I agree that if you want to do this, do it now before having kids!
Anonymous
I said the exact “2 out of 3” thing to my husband when I finally conceded I had to give up school after baby #2. It was hard, and really disappointing, but the job and the kids were not optional, and – I realized – neither was my sanity.
OP
This makes sense, and I want to do it NOW since chances are slim to none that I would have time for this as a working mom. Thanks!
April Fool
I did a part-time MBA with a 50 hour a week job, elementary-aged kids, working spouse and commute and still had time to volunteer and be with my kids. But I didn’t read for pleasure, watch TV, and had minimal social life for the three year period. Studied/class at night every weekday from 8-12, read textbooks on the train, spent one whole day out of each weekend on class (writing papers) and 4-6 hours on the other weekend day.
Anon in NYC
I didn’t, but I had a friend who went part-time while working full-time as an in-house paralegal. He is married, had 1 kid, and in his last year (right before he studied for the bar) had a second. I think it was hard and doable only because his wife (who is a saint) has a somewhat flexible schedule (she’s a vet) and picked up most/all of the slack. He tried to schedule classes for specific days, like T/Th or M/W/F, because he obviously needed the days in between to do work. At least one full day on the weekends was devoted to school. I think the key is to have an understanding boss/company.
Choose your school carefully
I did not personally take this path, but I went to school with many who did (I went to a school in an East coast city with a well-attended part-time program that catered to working professionals). I agree with the above – the people who had kids went a little insane. It’s *definitely* do-able, and many of our professional part-time (often older)students far out-performed the full-timer students. They were more efficient with their time, and more cognizant of time = money. Also, many were paying as they went, and that really drove home the investment it was. That said, as mentioned above, our part-time program was very geared toward professionals, and was a robust program. I know from transfer students that many big name schools offer a part-time program, but there are few resources devoted to it and little to no support offered to the part-time students.
I have nothing to add as to whether it’s a good investment for your personal career path, but I’d advise you to carefully consider the school you intend to attend.
Emmer
I don’t have any advice on going to school part time, but just wanted to get in before the “don’t go to law school!” haters surfaced to say I think this is a great investment on your part, as long as you think you will like being a lawyer vs. doing straight-up IT. I am a cybersecurity/privacy lawyer and we really need more people with IT backgrounds; there is a huge unmet demand.
OP
This is what I’ve been hearing from a lot of my peers. There is plenty of work for someone as a CIPP or even a CEDS, but what really interests me is the risk management/compliance framework behind infosec. Regulation in this space is going to grow exponentially as technology changes. It feels like the right time to do this. Thanks!
Anon
1. Tech lawyer here; absolutely, there is demand for someone with your background.
2. Part-time law school + full time job is very demanding; doable, but your partner needs to be on board with you having very little free time for several years.
3. If you’re looking at a tier 2 state school part-time, many of those programs specifically cater to people with full-time jobs, so you’ll most likely be in school with a lot of other people who are in the same boat. I would talk to somebody in that program and ask them how they feel about it.
4. I think it would be weird not to mention to your boss that you’re in law school part-time; that seems like kind of a huge thing to never mention. I would wait until you’re actually in school or about to start, figure out how it’s going to impact your work, and then say, “I want to let you know that I’m starting a part-time law school program, because I’m really interested in the legal aspects of the compliance work we do. I’ve scheduled it so that it won’t interfere with my schedule here, and I’ll be attending classes Tuesday and Thursday evenings starting at 7 p.m.”
Anonymous
Not a lawyer but I’ve seen friends go through law school and I have absolutely no idea how you would work at the same time. Law school seems to totally take over your life!
Anon for This
My dad did night law school over the course of 4 years while working full time. My Mom was a substitute in our local schools and they had kids elementary through middle school aged. We didn’t see Dad. He would be up studying/going to work way before we woke up, would work all day and then do class until after bedtime. He had to do mostly all of his classwork over the weekends so he would barricade himself in the home office or go into work for some quiet. He did nothing (housework, yard work, bill paying, parent teacher conferences, etc.) other than work and school.
I’m not saying don’t do it, but since you are married, sit down and make a calendar and block out what this would actually look like and have some discussions with your spouse about what they can put up with. From my observation, it can be really hard on a marriage, and truly almost unworkable with a family. Their marriage survived and is strong now, and I had no idea as a kid, but I’m pretty sure my mom almost reached the end of her rope.
OP
My husband kind of owes me, as he’s just finishing up his second masters (that he did part time while working). But, you raise a good point.
Anonymous
Yup, I finished law school at night in 3.5 years while working full time at an asset manager. Unlike b-school, part-time law school is not really part-time. It’s more like 80% time. I spent Monday through Thursday nights in class from 6:00-9:30 and then studied late at night and on weekends. I went to school during the summers as well. It was worth it for me because I knew I’d be miserable long-term in the career path I was on, and I knew the law degree would give me access to jobs that were more intellectually challenging and well compensated. It would have been very very hard to keep up that pace for 3.5 years straight if I wasn’t so motivated. That is just to say that I would look carefully at whether you actually need the law degree to do a lot of the work you’re interested in. It’s an enormous investment (you’re literally giving up 4 years of your life), and it’s much easier to do that when you’re unhappy with your current set-up. Much harder when you’re reasonably happy with your life.
OP
Did you do any of the normal stuff that some full time students do? Law review? Clinic?
Anonymous @ 11:16 am
Yes, I was a law review editor, published an article, and was a TA for 2 classes. I also quit my day job 3 years in so that I could do a biglaw summer associateship my third summer. I lived on the summer associateship proceeds during my last semester in the fall and was able to then do unpaid internship instead (with all my free time, heh). I basically figured that if I was going to do it, I was going to go all in and really kill it. It worked out great for me — I graduated into the legal recession and was one of the only people in my class to land a good job. And I now have my dream job and it’s absolutely all been worth it, but I worked very very hard, and I know that’s not for everyone.
I guess what I would caution you against doing is what I saw a lot of other people in the evening program doing. They were sort of half-a$$ing it and then were surprised when they graduated and struggled to find a job that was better than the day job they’d had all through law school. If you’re going to invest 4 years of your life doing law school at night, you want to be darn sure that you know exactly how it’s going to improve your life and that that sacrifice and time in money will have been well worth it. It’s one thing to regret the money, but to me the time was a much bigger investment. You can’t get those years back.
anon
I did this. For me personally the law school model was conducive to continuing to work full time because from a practical perspective I only had to keep up enough to make it through the next class, and use all my vacation time to cram for finals. Not ideal for full time students I’m sure, but it’s what helped me to do both and still have a social life one night a week. No time for other law student activities – no clinic, no law review, in fact no law school friends really (everyone in the night program was either similar to me in that they had families and careers outside of school, or were straight through students who were trying to transfer into the full time day program).
With my boss I was upfront about what was going on. It helped that he was really supportive and was flexible with my hours, all with the understanding that I would be leaving the firm eventually. It would have been extremely difficult with a boss who was not supportive or unwilling to work with me on my work schedule.
anon
Just curious, what kind of role do you want after you get a law degree? I know you did not ask this at all, but unless you want to be a straight-up attorney, there are perhaps different compliance programs out there that may also give you an edge in your niche area, and which may be doable through a part time program. I only mention this because I wish I had known about such programs and considered them before spending 150k on a law degree.
consultant rates/ leaning out advice
I was recently laid off and am pregnant with my 3rd child. I’ve been trying to figure out exactly what I’d like in my next role, and am in the interview stage for a few jobs that are at my former job’s salary/prestige (or better).
In the meantime, I’ve been working as a sub-contractor for a one-woman firm (note: not law) on a freelance/1099 basis. Yesterday, she floated the idea by me of hiring me part time after the baby comes and I’m ready to start up work again.
What I’m trying to figure out is if I’m underselling my value in the rate I’m working at. Facts:
1. I’m charging approx 25% over the hourly rate i’d be earning at as an employee of a corporation
2. The work I’m doing is substantially less challenging (for me) than the work i’d be doing as an employee of a corporation (think: running a division of a corporation vs doing strategic planning on a consultative basis), with no travel and no 60-80 hour weeks.
3. The woman that is looking to bring me on is going to be closing all of the deals. If I were totally on my own freelancing, I’d charge more, because I’d also be the one closing the deals, doing the contracting etc etc. This gig just dumps work on my plate and sends me a paycheck.
4. I have no real need for benefits outside of retirement plans from a company–we currently get all our benefits through my husband.
The way I see it, I need to cover the employer portion of my taxes (ballpark 10%) and I lose out on small perks like a comp’d cell phone and perhaps a company 401k match. On balance, as a freelancer I can open an individual 401(k) and contribute over the 18500 limit (18500 as an employee, more as the employer– I expect to gross just over 100k-120k/ year in this arrangement). I also get to deduct a bazillion self-employed expenses which have a big impact to our taxes since we make too much to itemize.
I want to make sure I’m charging enough that I don’t undersell myself, but from my standpoint this is a pretty ideal gig: 20 hours/week guaranteed (more if I want them/the business is there), set my own schedule, stay plugged into the industry in a meaningful way while spending more time with my kids when they are young (all are under 6)
From a family standpoint, we *could* live off DH’s salary alone, but it would mean not socking money away in our savings (outside retirement), going on vacations, etc. With both of us 100% full time, we’d need to be spending approx 50k/year on childcare. With me on a 20 hour/week schedule (that is flexible and not in-office), I’d see that as more like 15-20k/year. I’d be home more vs on the road (I used to travel 4-5 days/month). I have a great home office setup that I can use AND the kids can be home and we never see each other :)
I think I’m asking all this because it seems like it could work perfectly–so of course obviously I feel like I’m missing something.
feet
This sounds like a great opportunity. I am actually thinking about something like this for myself, as I am also in a situation where I need to provide care and can’t work full time. I was also wondering about what to charge…. I guess it couldn’t hurt to talk to your accountant, and see what they say, and if there are any other tax issues etc.. you should keep in mind. Deducting business expenses is not always as simple as you might think, so it’s good to have that info ahead of time.
I would go for it. But keep interviewing if you see the “perfect” job come up.
And sometimes the perfect job is something you never realized before….
Anonymous
This all sounds great to me, and I do something remarkably similar, but in law. The only thing that sounds off is the notion that you won’t be able to save or take vacations if you move to a 100-120k income, even though you make too much to itemize.
consultant rates/ leaning out advice
Ah, no, I think my thoughts were just disorganized. that income (100-120k) would go into the savings/vacation budget probably a bit less than if I were working FT. I meant that without my income (100-120k or 200-240k) we would be skipping vacations and saving less.
Meg Murry
Clarification – would you still be a 1099 freelancer, but with an understanding that it would be part time, approximately 20 hours per week, every week ongoing? When you say “hire you part time” – does that mean as an employee, or still as a 1099 contractor, just with a longer term understanding instead of short term freelance?
My concern would be whether there would be 20 consistent hours of work a week for you, or whether it would be feast or famine with periods of 5 (or no) hours and then periods of 30-40 hours – because that is really hard to juggle with childcare, if you hire a nanny for 20 hours a week she’ll expect to be paid for 20 hours a week every week.
But otherwise, this sounds like a pretty awesome gig.
Diana Barry
+1, but am I reading it right that you would be grossing $100K-$120K while working 20 hrs/week? If so, SOLD.
The flexibility of the hours and childcare will really matter – if it is set hours per week, and you choose when to get them done, then it will be great. If it is 40 hrs one week, 5 hrs the next as Meg says above, then that is much harder to pull off.
Also, “we make too much to itemize” – I don’t think that is a thing, it might just be that there is a limit on the amount you can itemize? Pretty sure my DH and I deducted about 40K in mortgage interest payments last year.
consultant rates/ leaning out advice
Yes, exactly this. Freelancing with a monthly minimum guaranteed bucket of hours (20/week).
So I can make $200k or so (maybe more) in a FT role in an office with travel and likely 50-60 hours/week, $100k in a part time role with very flexible hours working from home. It won’t be a 5hrs one week/40 hours the next unless I want it to be (she knows i’ll have an infant).
Oil in Houston
sounds like an amazing opportunity to me. Provided you keep your skills up in a real marketable manner for when you want to lean back in that is
consultant rates/ leaning out advice
Yes, exactly this. Freelancing with a monthly minimum guaranteed bucket of hours (20/week).
So I can make $200k or so (maybe more) in a FT role in an office with travel and likely 50-60 hours/week, $100k in a part time role with very flexible hours working from home. It won’t be a 5hrs one week/40 hours the next unless I want it to be (she knows i’ll have an infant).
But that $100k is freelance income vs W2
Meg Murry
Do you have a CPA/accountant who did your taxes this year? Could you go talk to that person and hire them to do a “what if” analysis, running hypothetical taxes for you as if you earned $100k as a 1099 employee in 2015 and compare that to your $200k W-2?
Anon
I’m a little confused by this — if you’re already freelancing, and now you’re just freelancing with guaranteed hours, then why wouldn’t you charge the same rate? Are you proposing that your rates will go down (discounting because you’ll get a guaranteed minimum payment), or up (because you’re guaranteeing to be available)? If down, I’d argue that your rates should stay the same because this is a mutually beneficial arrangement; if up, can’t hurt to ask for a little more!
I would do this in a minute, since you still have the flexibility to take on additional work and increase your income if you want to.
consultant rates/ leaning out advice :
I’m trying to figure out if I am undercharging at my current rate– without looking the gift-flexibility in the mouth. i’m only “marking up” my market rate by about 25%; a lot of the advice out there says 50-70% markup if you are a contractor. I believe much of that stems from the employer not having to provide benefits etc. which isn’t really my issue or concern here.
Anonymous
I could use some advice/commiseration from other single ladies…
I’m almost 31, single, never had a lot of luck with men. I’m actually pretty happy being single, despite watching every single one of my friends get married this year, and I’m fairly certain I don’t want kids. But lately I feel upset that I’m aging out of marriage/kids. I know 31 is still young, technically, but let’s say I meet a suitable guy today, it could be years before we get married, and by then having kids might not even be an option. I guess I just feel sad that it feels like the choice is being taken away from me the older I get.
Anonymous
Nope! I have these thoughts too but you have to beat them down. You are NOT aging out of having kids. Meet a guy a 32, engaged at 33, married by 34, pregnant at 35, 37, and 39. Yes, fertility declines at 35 but it’s not a cliff dive, and there’s no reason why you need to date for years and years before getting engaged in your 30s.
Killer Kitten Heels
+1 for “you don’t need to date for years and years before getting engaged in your 30s” – at this point, you (and the people you date) have had, probably, at least a decade of dating experience. You know what matters to you in a partner, you know what your dealbreakers are, and there’s no reason a dating relationship should drag out for “years” without concrete steps towards engagement/marriage if you’re both on that page.
FWIW, most of my friends (early-to-mid-30s) who are dating/marrying now (as opposed to in our 20s) are usually doing so within 1.5-3 years of meeting “the one” – the progression seems to be 12-18 months to engagement, then varying lengths of engagement depending on personal factors. I don’t really see anyone (who wants to be married) dating for more than a year without knowing if the relationship is going to lead to marriage (and ending if it isn’t).
feet
You are at that age where many go through this mini-crisis. However, you are still very young, and you are often a very different person in your 30’s than in your 20’s. You know more about what you want and you make better decisions.
And you never age out of marriage. The kids part, maybe… but my SIL had her first child in her late 40’s. Adoption. Foster. Dogs/cats. Nieces/nephews.
Now come back to us if you are 45, saying the same things. Then I feel your pain. Because you are me. But you will be able to deal with it better.
It is much harder for the working, motivated woman to find everything in life. But also, not all of us have to have the same life. We’ve been brainwashed a little.
OP
The brainwashing thing is so true and important to remember…especially when I’m sitting at yet another cookie cutter wedding reception. Thank you.
old bride
It comes when it comes! At 31, I was just starting grad school, changing careers, and meeting lots of guys. Nowhere near settling down, despite all the weddings I went to (mostly solo) in my late 20-early 30s. Met my H when I was 38 at a backyard barbecue. We were married a three later and our child was born when I was 44.
One thing that made a huge difference: I realized that I had some self-sabotaging beliefs & behaviors in relationships, and began seeing a therapist to understand and address these habits. I truly believe that I would not be happily married with an adorable child if I hadn’t started that process.
HSAL
Met him at 31, married at 32, pregnant at 33, baby at 34. A friend was single all her life, met her now-husband at 37, married at 38, had their baby when she was 40. I’m sure other posters will have even later stories. Do not worry about this right now (easier said than done, I know).
Zelda
I’m the same age and sometimes have similar thoughts, but we’re def not close to aging out of kids (as other posters have already stated). As corny as it sounds, I’m just focusing on living my best life for me and viewing a future partner as the icing on the cake. He should enhance my life, not make it.
Anonymous
I had the same thought when I broke with my long term boyfriend at 31. I dated a few guys over the next few years, met my current husband at 35, got married at 36, and we’re now pregnant with our first child (due right before I turn 37). I’ve found that the older you get, the quicker you can figure out if the person you’re with is the “right” one – which makes getting married happen much more quickly. Many of my friends who got married in their mid-30s met their spouses within 12-18 months before they got married. Don’t give up hope – I can say unequivocally that I’m SO glad I waited for my husband!!
Anonymous
31 is SO young. Also keep in mind the timetables accelerate post-30 and even more post-35: It’s very unusual for 28 year olds to get engaged, married and pregnant within a year of meeting, but it’s so common in your late 30s. You could definitely meet someone at 40 and end up having a baby. Also, while women do age out of biological kids a some point, you never age out of marriage!
January
I feel that way, too, sometimes (especially since the conventional wisdom/practice seems to be to have your kids in the first half of your thirties). As some of the other posters here have written, you don’t know what the future holds.
I think that one thing that isn’t reassuring (to me, at least) about the “it happens faster when you’re older” stories is that if you don’t have a lot of dating/relationship experience, you might not know what you want in a relationship yet. But, at least for the OP, just try to roll with it and date. You are where you are. You can still learn.
anon
I fall in that category, but despite having narrow appeal, the benefit to being older is that you know yourself better.
FP
Well – I met my husband at 21, married at 26, and I’m 33 now and just pregnant with our first child. Most of that was intentionally waiting (post grad school, etc.), so I don’t think you are on a terribly short timeline if you’ve gotten a lot of other life-things out of the way now!
Anonymous
I have two close friends who started dating their now husbands at 38/39, got married pretty quickly, and each got pregnant on the honeymoon. It seemed normal to me because most of my friends have gotten married later and had kids later. So it’s always a little funny to me when people are freaking out at 30. I get though that it happens because your idea of what’s “normal” is so strongly set by what’s happening around you. Sounds like it might be time to consciously pursue friendships, outings, activities with some single people.
OP
Yes, your last sentence really resonates with me. I’ve been spending a lot more time recently with my only close friend who is single. When I’m with her, I feel happy and great and satisfied with my life. Funny how that works…
lawsuited
If you’re fairly certain you don’t want kids (I take this to mean, if kids happen with the right person and the right time then great, but if they don’t then that’s just fine too), then you can stop worrying. You can fall in love and get married at any age, kids are the complicating factor.
shamlet96
Echoing posters above – you still have time. That said, if you do want to get married (and keep your options open for having multiple children, which it sounds like you maybe don’t), I would urge you to start looking very seriously now. That is to say, treat dating like a second job. Go on lots of online dates; ask your friends to be set up; go to social events where there are likely to be other single folks. I’m 37 and in your predicament, but I still have hope that I will meet and marry the right guy (and hopefully start a family with him). I’ve been going on at least 2-3 dates the past few months (since my last rel’shp ended) and I have a couple of good prospects, so I’m feeling positive. Things definitely do move faster in your 30s and most (good) men are cognizant about not wasting your time. I also froze my eggs a few years ago, so that gives me a little peace of mind. All JMHO, of course. Good luck!
shamlet96
meant to say 2-3 dates *per week* above. :)
OP
Yes, that is good advice. I’m terrible about being proactive with dating mostly because of my own insecurities (too fat, not accomplished enough, not beautiful enough). I realize this is something I have to work on. It’s just really intimidating to go online and feel so inadequate compared to the other women.
January
This made me feel sad. Are you actually comparing yourself to other women on dating sites? If so, STOP. What anon said up above about a “narrow appeal” is true — some of us just appeal to a smaller market than others — but still, your demographic is out there. For what it’s worth, I think sites like e-Harmony would make it harder to see the other profiles that you’re “competing” with because of the way their system works. This might be true for apps like When Coffee Meets Bagel or Tinder, too, because they’re based off your Facebook profile, so they’re not going to let you into the other side of their database. (Note: I have not verified this).
2 Cents
Don’t give up hope! Fertility depends on the people involved. It is possible to have kids after 40. Finding the right partner (since it sounds like you might want to do children with a partner rather than as a single person) is the first step. 31 is not an “old crone” age — you just haven’t met the right one yet.
Anecdotally, I met my husband on eHarmony (after my “always tells the hard truth even if you don’t want to hear it” friend filled out my profile for me). Another friend met her now-husband at a free dance lesson. Another person met her husband while she was waitressing PT.
TO Lawyer
I feel this. I’m a couple years younger than you (29) but my boyfriend and I just broke up. So on top of all of the hurt and sadness, I’m worried that I may be running out of time because I have to start over to heal, try to find someone, date, get engaged, married and then kids. It all seems really overwhelming but I’m trying to remind myself that a) I still have lots of time and b) having kids with the wrong person is probably worse than having no kids.
I don’t know though… it’s hard.
plan my trip
I need a break. I’m burned out by work and family stuff.
I have a week and a couple thousand dollars. Where should I go?
More about me: I love culture, art, shopping, food, books. I like to be active and walk most of the day, exploring a new place. Love yoga and running.
I do not enjoy extreme adventure travel or large groups. Still, I wonder if I would get bored with a week to myself.
I’m 35 and would be traveling alone. Should I go to Canyon Ranch or one of those places, or should I just go to Cuba or Costa Rica?
Catlady
Portland, OR?
Anonymous
Love Portland! 2nd.
Anonymous
None of the above. A couple thousand isn’t enough for a week at Canyon Ranch for starters. Go to Europe. Figure out which city is cheapest to fly to and go there. Get an Air BnB, walk all over, even take a yoga class or two.
anne-on
Where are you located? Are you looking to stay in the US or go abroad? Approximate length of flight you’d be ok with?
Of the top of my head – Miami is great if you like warm weather, lots of beach activities, great food, lots of art galleries and running trails. Vail Colorado is amazing, lots of good outdoor activities (hiking, fishing, mountain biking, yoga, etc.) tons of shopping and great food/beer.
Been to both locations either alone or as a tag-along on my husband’s work trips – both were great places to explore alone, and had lots of opportunities to chat with people as I wanted (bartenders, tour group leaders, instructors, etc.).
Anonymous
Mexico? You could hike/explore ruins/etc but also relax on the beach.
Bek
Europe! It’s tulip season in the Netherlands and is absolutely gorgeous.
Anonymous
Does anyone know if there is decent tulip viewing either in mid-late March or in mid-May? I’ve got a college professor husband so traveling to Europe in April or the first week of May is not possible.
Min Donner
The big flower park, Keukenhof, is generally open from mid March to mid May every year — this year it’s 24 March to 16 May. http://www.keukenhof.nl/en/plan-your-visit/practical-information/#Opening times
You can rent bikes outside the park and bike around the fields nearby in Lisse.
From experience, by the end the exhibits and fields might be a bit droopy, but it’s still fantastic. The park is ~ 35 minute drive or 1 hour 15-30 minutes by train/bus from Amsterdam.
Jennifer
Santa Fe/Taos if you are interested in staying in the US.
Mrs. Jones
I’m a broken record, but you should go to Rancho la Puerta in Mexico.
Laura | Sea Salt & Cervantes
What about a yoga retreat in Costa Rica? You could meet others and feed your love for yoga. I’ve been really interested in doing a surfing camp, which are all over the world (there’s a bunch in Portugal, apparently) for the same reason — doing something active, in a cool location, where you will meet others with similar interests.
MargaretO
Go to Barcelona! Stay in Barceloneta if you like the beach. Spend all day eating tapas and day drinking wine outdoors. Go to the fabulous contemporary art museum. Gawk at the pretty men and try to learn a few words of Catalan. Barcelona!
Meg Murry
If you don’t want to be alone for the entire week, could you take a day or two to visit with a friend or far off family member you haven’t seen in a long time, and then take the rest of the time to explore their city or the surrounding area on your own?
If it were up to me, I’d head south right now, because I’m tired of our gray-ish weather and want to see some sunshine
Idea
Denver. Mountains AND a city.
Or Miami. Beach and a city.
Or Charleston (also beach and smaller city)
or Maine (semi-beach, semi-Mountains, very small cities)
New England
I’d skip New England until the summer (real summer–July). At the moment, New England and especially Maine is in the midst of mudseason and nothing is open for tourists. BUT if you are looking to travel this summer, Portland, Maine is an awesome small city (ok, big town) with a great food scene and stuff to do.
In the Pink
I’ve also taken structured, guided bus tours of various sites when tagging along with my Dh on his work jobs. Gray Line Tours – even in Europe.
APC
Try Red Mountain Resort in St. George Utah. Like Canyon Ranch at a fraction of the price.
Jen
I recently did a solo trip to Costa Rica and it was AWESOME. I highly recommend it.
Bluestocking
Chicago. The downtown is very walkable and you can get to other neighborhoods easily on the train. Lots of museums and galleries and shopping and food. Great lakefront trail for running. Lots of great yoga studios. Make your own retreat – take a yoga class every morning, followed by a run, then go to a museum or gallery hopping in the afternoon or maybe shopping, go to dinner, then see a show or concert in the evening. There’s plenty to keep you occupied for a week.
Anonymous
This all sounds great to me, and I do something remarkably similar, but in law. The only thing that sounds off is the notion that you won’t be able to save or take vacations if you move to a 100-120k income, even though you make too much to itemize.
Anonymous
I’m going to Japan for 2 weeks in mid May (yay!!) with my partner. Does anyone have advice on what kind of bags to bring? I have 1 checked bag, 1 hard sided carry on, considering bringing a back pack for the under-the-seat bag, but for daily walking around, I don’t want to always have the back pack because it may get quite hot. Other bags in my life are a canvas tote (work bag), a small cross body (that is falling apart and needs replacing), and a bulky kate spade tote (which I’m not planning on taking). My last trip abroad was living in Japan for half a year so I didn’t really think about my luggage…
Anonymous
Id bring one suit case and my longchamp shoulder bag.
Gail the Goldfish
Replace the small cross-body with a slightly larger cross-body and take that. My daily bag when traveling is a Tumi voyaguer (I think it’s the voyaguer) cross body. It’s probably smaller than my everyday purse, but fits a waterbottle, lonely planet phrase book, wallet, small camera. Plus, it’s on my front, so I don’t worry as much about pickpockets like I might with a backpack I couldn’t see.
Also, if you’re traveling by train at all in the country, check luggage size restrictions. I don’t know about Japan, but I was considering taking high-speed trains in China and they had smaller luggage size allowances than airplanes.
bag questions
Thanks for the bag rec! Time to go internet shopping.
I will be taking the bullet train across the country, but Japan has a really convenient and cheap luggage forwarding service so I’m probably just going to ship my checked bag out of convenience.
Gail the Goldfish
Tumi’s pretty expensive if you buy directly from them, but check eBay–there are usually people selling the outlet versions of the voyaguer bags for cheaper, which are just as good in my opinion.
Zelda
+1. I have an older version of the Tumi Voyageur Capri that has traveled all over the world with me, including Japan. It’s lightweight but still great quality and a crossbody over a backpack provides greater security.
Scarlett
I just went – if you are going to more than one city, take a carry-on tote and a suitcase. You can send your suitcase ahead on their bag delivery system (ask your hotel) and you’ll want to do it the day before you leave so your bag is there when you arrive and you’ll prob want an overnight’s worth of clothes with you. Also saw a great article on snippet and ink about traveling in Japan with more tips.
Scarlett
http://snippetandink.com/japan-honeymoon/
NYC tech
Feels like a weird thing to say, but minus the eyes, this is my ideal perfect blazer.
fiona
I agree – it really is a nice cut and fit!
meme
I did a double-take because I have a suit jacket that looks JUST like this (but no appliqué) – from Brooks Bros. maybe 5 years ago or so.
Candidate No. 2
I interviewed for an academic research position and the Professor I interviewed with wrote to tell me I am the candidate number 2. She plans on interviewing No. 1 and will only come back to me if that person is unsuitable or does not want the job.
In my email back to her I wanted to say thank you for updating me…should I add anything else? Like maybe say that I am still interested in the position or would that be too pushy?
NYC tech
I’d stick to “thanks for updating me” and possibly a pleasant comment about your interview (if you can do that naturally). Like “So nice meeting you the other day” or “Thanks again for pointing out the references on X – what a cool story!” or something relatively upbeat.
SA
I think it’s ok to be pushy, let them know you want the job!
Anonymous
I would say something like “Thank you for the update. I remain very interested in the position.” Good luck! My husband got his dream academic job after another candidate was offered it, accepted it, and then dropped out to take a better position so it definitely works out sometimes for Candidate No. 2!
hoola hoopa
+1 to the language and to staying optimistic as #2. Just because the other candidate is their #1 choice doesn’t mean they are the candidate’s #1 choice. We’ve hired our #3 choice before (who was still great, no sadness on our part). GL!
JJ
As I mentioned upthread, the first firm I worked at was a nightmare. They haven’t made a woman partner since I left (7 years ago), even though there are hundreds of attorneys in the office in our city. I’m now in-house and last night was their annual huge female client-development event. I decided to go because I had heard what a “fun and unique” event it was.
It was a limo scavenger hunt. Our team won. First prize was….a blender. And the door prize was a set of cutting boards. If it weren’t so ridiculous, it would be sad.
Anonymous
Speechless. Were the other women okay with this??
lsw
Wow. Just….wow.
Oil in Houston
!!!!
Idea
OMG, I’d hate to see what the wives of the planning committee members get for their birthdays…
Is it worth it to join the planning committee for this event next year.
Wow.
KT
…Was it April 1?
Anon
I’m laughing, even though this is horrifying.
lawsuited
I hope it was Vitamix! It still sounds better than some of the mani-and-martini type events I’ve seen advertised for female lawyers.
JJ
Oh, I should add that this is completely planned by the (older) female partners at this firm…that remain incredibly disinterested in making sure female associates are put up for partner. So that’s even worse.
Anonattorney
I hate this stuff. I hate when women business associations always have salad for lunch. Or when women networking events are “champagne and chocolate” themed. It’s just so cliche.
Anonny
Ugh. We have a women’s-only industry professional group for my male-dominated industry. They do shopping parties, paint nights, wine & dessert sessions… meanwhile all of the co-ed industry groups have excellent programming about market trends, etc. I shudder whenever I go to the women’s-only stuff (which my firm makes me go to as the only woman….).
2 Cents
I guess these are slightly better than getting an apron. Or a gift card for shoes. Or *insert another stereotypical “what women like” item here.* Sheesh!
Anonymous
At least with a gift card for shoes you could buy a pair of work shoes. A blender says “get back in the ktichen.”
Heck Yea!
How about the women’s national soccer team?! I am SO PROUD of what they’re doing. As a 32 year old who had a bedroom wallpapered with Jenny Chastain, Mia Hamm and Brianna Scurry as a kid, I couldn’t be more excited and hopeful to watch how this progresses.
Anonymous
I know nothing about soccer, but I was shocked to learn how much more they earned for the League and how much the pay gap was. Super proud of them.
lsw
I know!!! Following this excitedly. Did you see the great article in the NY Daily News the day before they filed? http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2016/03/how-us-soccer-mistreats-world-cup-winning-womens-national-team/
Heck Yea!
YES! That table on the left side about 2/3rds down… holy moly. That was eye opening.
Anonymous
I love this! Particularly because one of the biggest arguments for men being paid more is that men’s sports is more popular, and thus men bring in more money. Pretty sure USWNT brings in WAY more money than the men’s team, so it’s going to be fun watching people who use that argument try to explain away this.
Anonymous
No, this is not progress, this is a true lack of understanding of how the forces of demand and supply work.
Anonattorney
Um, explain?
Anon
Brandi Chastain… right?
trust
Curious to hear some success stories on improving trust in relationships – in general but also after trust-wrecking events (e.g. affairs).
For a variety of reasons and a messy history, my SO and I both struggle with trusting the other. Neither of us has cheated, but we have both been unfaithful to partners in the past. We’ve also both lied, done some hurtful things, etc to the other in the past. We’re committed to the relationship but recognize we need to improve our trust in each other for it to move forward.
I have trust issues in general and have an awesome therapist who is helping me work through them. After years of bad therapy on his own, my SO is really opposed to couples’ counseling. I’ve also had bad experiences with couples’ counseling, so am more interested in DIY techniques, book recs, etc.
Per my therapist’s advice, we’re starting to have weekly “meetings” to talk about the week, moments of distrust or hurt feelings, etc.
Anonymous
I think you start by being trustworthy yourself. And then you have faith. Figure out what you mean by not trusting. Not just the feelings but your actions. Stop doing them. Accept that you’ll never know for sure and decide you’re ok with the risk. The guy you k ow has lied and cheated might do it again, but the relationship is still worth it.
Anonymous
You both also need to forgive each other and decide to start fresh.
(I only know this from couples counselling with a partner who did cheat)
CountC
This. I am working on something similar myself and I know that the only way I can make a true second go of it is to forgive and then start fresh in the present. I know myself and my tendency would be to use the past against my partner, although mostly subconsciously. I hold grudges BAD – it’s a life-time/life-long work-in-progress for me, but since I know I am like this, I can identify situations where it would be problematic. If the appropriate recognition of bad behavior has happened, and the appropriate apologies have been given, it’s time to live in the present.
My therapist knows that I tend to live in the future, and my ex-partner lives in the past. Both of us need to live in the present. Today. Today is the only thing I need to tackle right now. Not what happened months ago, not what might happen months from now, but today. What is my partner doing today?
Betty
There is a fantastic book on forgiveness, “The Book of Forgiving” by Desmund Tutu and his daughter.
Anonymous
My last boyfriend before I started dating my husband cheated on me and then a bunch of other crazy stuff happened that was just awful. My husband had been in a previous long-term relationship where he would lie by omission to his girlfriend because he expected she would get upset. From day 1 in my relationship with my husband I expected honesty and made sure that he knew that. I told him that I couldn’t promise that I wouldn’t get mad when he told me things, but that I would 100% for sure get mad if he lied or lied by omission and I found out about it. Partly as a consequence, we’ve become almost over-communicators. We talk about everything, sometimes too much and wind up going in circles, and I’m sure it would be really exhausting to other people, but it works for us. Also, I made a conscious decision to allow myself be vulnerable and open to being hurt. That was hard, but isn’t having that one person you can be vulnerable with part of the point of having a relationship?
BeenThatGuy
I love this sentence “I made a conscious decision to allow myself to be vulnerable and open to being hurt”. I made this choice too and have made significant strides in my current relationship. It’s so liberating to allow yourself to be vulnerable. To be able to share that with someone is incredibly intimate.
Jitterbug
Oh heck yeah, I’ve always wanted to dress like Miss Frizzle for work! But it’s a little out of my price range, I’d pay $1,500 for something like that, tops. Any idea when it might go on sale?
hoola hoopa
2 points for the Ms Frizzle reference.
NoVa CPA?
Ugh — I am hating doing my taxes this year. I have a Schedule E and next year (so not going to call this person in the next two weeks, but will over the summer for estimated taxes) I want to outsource. Any recommendations?
Anonymous
All this talk about money is making me feel guilty. I have issues and I don’t know how to get over them but I need to. For some reason I’m just sticking my head in the sand instead of taking care of business.
Last year I knew we would owe $10,000+ on taxes so instead of taking care of it i ignored them. I did file an extension and ended taking them to a CPA days before the 10/15 deadline but it ended up costing hundreds in penalties which I chose to ignore and they garnished them from my husband’s paycheck. (Can we be any dumber?)
This isn’t the only thing, I also have a hospital bill that I’m ignoring. The treatment didn’t work and I was unhappy and I don’t want to pay it. This isn’t rational thinking. I know I owe, I need to handle it.
Any advice on just handling my business without acting like a moron and ignoring it??? Why am I doing this?
Anonymous
I think this is a great question for a therapist. Head in the sand behavior can be a symptom of depression. Also why is this on you? Can your husband help handle this?
Idea
Right there with you. Smart women do it, too.
Whether it’s all-or-nothing thinking, depression, anxiety (more fixable than depression), or a weird history/relationship with money (or about money with your SO)… it happens.
Therapy is good. A financial planner is good. A weekly financial session or desk day (or 2x/week) is good. More tools are better.
KT
This sounds like you need some help with a therapist. you KNOW this isn’t rational and will cost you, yet you keep doing it. Get help.
Also, can your husband take over the money-management? Or does he have the same issue?
You know this, but this can have serious consequences. Garnishment of wages is only a part. Ignoring the medical bills can start collection agency calls, even more wage garnishment, and that can spiral to bankruptcy or losing your home. Get thee to a doctor.
Anon
Good advice on the why/therapy. As for the hospital bill, call them and try to negotiate a lower rate. Not because it didn’t work, but because it’s a very common thing to have happen in the industry (hospital finance is my industry and recouping patient liability payments is my area of expertise :)). If it’s $40 then you’re out of luck but if you’re talking a Big Bill, they will happily take your credit card number and give you a big discount. Or put you on a payment plan.
Good luck with the rest!
Anonymous
Thank you! It’s a Big Bill.
Anonny
On what basis do you make an argument for getting a lower bill? I didn’t know this was a thing.
Anon
All kinds of things. “If I pay 100% up front right now, is it possible to get a discount? if not, do you have a payment plan?” is very common. If you have a 4+ figure bill, they want to get your money and they’ll often take a guaranteed 80% (or less) now than a payment plan for 100% that you may or may not meet.
“This was much more than I was expecting to pay and don’t have it in my budget right now, is there anything you can do?”
Hospitals lose *so much money* on people that default on their bills. It’s insane (and why I’m in business). Many of the progressive ones offer a prepay setup where you get a big chunk off in exchange for paying in advance.
2 Cents
+1 When I had major surgery, I got hit with a bill from the anestheziologist that I wasn’t expecting (and insurance didn’t cover the entire fee — this is probably covered by “surprise bill” legislation, but it wasn’t then). I called his office, explained that I didn’t have the full amount, and his office manager had me write in explaining that the surgery was a huge setback for me (12 weeks of recovery) and I didn’t have it in my budget to pay this full amount — could we negotiate something lower, if not just take what insurance had offered. He ended up writing off the whole thing. Took 10 minutes and a stamp.
anon
Hospital/physician prices are unfortunately not set in stone and vary based on each payer type. People paying out of pocket usually are charged SO much more than insurance companies. Even if there is a fee schedule, there is often wiggle room. You can absolutely ask for a discount or a 0% interest payment plan. No one is required to accept that request but it is worth a shot.
Anonymous
Yep. You are all right. I grew up the oldest in a large family and we never had enough money. Now I do but I am having a hard time parting with it.
anon for this
All of the advice to address the underlying issues is good, and you probably have to do that. But when you actually deal with your taxes or hospital bill, be extremely kind to yourself. Acknowledge that this task is bringing up lots of feelings that you’re dealing with, and do what you have to to get through it.
I had a similar problem last year. It wasn’t money-related, but for some reason (anxiety, depression, shame, whatever) I kept putting off what should have been a small task (an hour max) necessary for me to maintain my professional license. I finally did it. I worked on the underlying feelings with medication, yoga, and positive behaviors. Then one day I decided I was really going to face it and bite the bullet. I did a lot of self-soothing in the morning (yoga, coffee, this s*te), did what I had to do, and did more self-soothing (walk and window shopping during lunch).
Anonymous
Oh man, I do this somethimes too. I think it’s because I’m too busy and always behind and feel overwhelmed/like I do not have the proper time to devote to the task (download, sort through, and decipher all of my health insurance/HRA/FSA account info and figure out what I actually owe). I think I have mental issues surrounding this too. I’m not depressed, but maybe anxiety related to feeling overwhelmed. My mom is like this although on a far grander scale and her life is a mess (mine is not), and I always observed and disdained this about her. Sigh. I can get my sh!t done, I know that, but I’m not sure how to get rid of these tendencies.
Sydney Bristow
I agree with the advice you’ve received above.
Slightly similar but I have the hardest time doing something that I know I need to do if it involves me making a phone call first. It’s totally not rational. I’ll get things done if I can email, go in person, etc but if it’s a phone call it’s an issue for me. I’ve found that what works for me is to literally schedule a time to make the phone call and put it on my calendar/reminders app so it notifies me when it’s time. When it’s on the calendar I seem to psychologically accept that I can’t avoid it.
Maybe you can try something similar. Put it on your calendar for 3pm today to call the billing office for your medical bill. Then when you get the alert, make the call. Or if it’s a phone issue for you too, schedule a time to go to the office in person with your checkbook.
I’ve been most likely to avoid things like you are when I was depressed. Based on my personal experience, I think exploring this as a cause and getting treatment of that’s what it is could be very helpful too.
Eye Need Help! :)
Eye strain! My eyes are bothering me lately, I think from staring at Excel so often and for so long. Aaaaand the iPhone habit, of course. I was worried I needed glasses the last time I felt they were strained (four months ago-ish?), but went to the eye doctor and my vision is great.
Any suggestions?
Lyssa
I recently got a pair of computer glasses to wear to reduce strain. They have a yellow tint to help with glare, and I guess some other features, but they really help. I wear them in addition to my contacts, but only when I’m looking at the computer (you know, 10 hours a day). There are cheap ones available online which may be acceptable, but these were specifically designed by my eye doctor (and cost eye doctor prices).
heatherskib
Specifically talk to opthamologist re eye strain. in my case, I have your same situation… but for those times of the year when I am starting at a computer screen all day every day reading fine print… I have reading glasses that are the lowest prescription to offset the strain
mascot
Really low powered reading glasses? Drugstore readers usually start at +1, but you might be able to find a +0.5 or +0.75 somewhere. Also, take breaks. About every 20 minutes, look up and focus on something about 20 ft away for 20 seconds. I also find that rewetting drops help when I am not blinking as much because I am staring at a computer all day.
Anonymous
+1 My eye dr just said go up until you find one. +1 worked for me (tax code, tax regs, tiny print on bad paper, too much screen reading, too).
I am otherwise 20/20, but my eyes are just tired. Google Presbyobia = old eyes
lucy stone
Get the WorkPause program for your computer. It’s worth the money because it physically forces you to look away for at least a little bit.
Bonnie
I recently started wearing reading glasses, especially when I’m working at the computer and the difference has been amazing. My vision has not changed, it’s just become harder to focus and my eyes had been getting strained. My prescription is just +1 which is fairly small.
lsw
It is really annoying to implement but I try to look away from the screen for 30 full seconds every once in a while. (30 seconds feels like forever when you’re in the middle of working.) Even just turning and looking out the window (or wherever) every so often to allow your eyes to refocus on a different distance can help. And getting up to walk around for a few minutes, if possible, is great – no phone, though! I do wear glasses and have my whole life, but I still get eye strain from too much screentime.
Anonymous
Have you tried eye drops? I find that I don’t blink as often when looking at screens, which makes my eyes dry and then tired.
Anonymous
I use Excel a ton and requested a larger, HD monitor. That, plus increasing the size of the type has made it much easier to read spreadsheets, especially ones with tons of columns.
Petty?
Sorry in advance for the long post. I just dumped my loser manchild BF of a year. I really didn’t want to give up on this guy because he has a lot of good qualities (and I fear being single again at 32) but I just couldn’t anymore. He would gripe and complain about having to drive to spend the night with me but he refused to move out of his very conservative mother’s house so we could stay at a more convenient location for him. He would pout and throw me under the bus to his friends when we had preexisting plans with my family or friends that conflicted with the spur of the moment plans his friends made. He generally refused to interact with my friends or family, preferring instead to sit in the corner on his phone looking at sports all night. But he expected me to be BFFs with all of his friends and had no boundaries with them; he tried to give one of them a key to my house without telling me so they could crash on my couch whenever they wanted. He also refused to let me in on the plans he made with his friends, so I would have to scramble to rearrange my schedule at the last minute to attend important life events, such as a wedding that he was in but didn’t tell me the date until 3 days prior.
He also just generally seemed to not give one f!ck about things that were important to me. For example, I went all out for his birthday. I got him expensive tickets to a game, hired a driver to take us around, stocked the car with his favorite beers, got him a vintage jersey for his favorite retired player, and took him out to a fancy dinner. He said it was one of the best nights of his life. For my birthday (6+ months ago), he promised to take me to a play I’ve been wanting to see. I gave him a bunch of dates that worked for my schedule but he never got the tickets; he would either forget or he had “possible” plans with his friends.
We’re about to exchange stuff we’ve (read: he’s) left with each other (read: at my house). I’m considering asking for the tickets or the monetary value of the tickets. On the one hand, I feel like I shouldn’t do that because it’s petty and I just need to move on with my life. On the other, not even ASKING feels like letting him get away with yet another slight. I don’t expect him to actually pony up but I feel like maybe I should assert myself for once and tell him – I know you think you’re getting away with this without a fight but you’re not and I’m calling you out on your BS. Thoughts?
Anon in NYC
Don’t do it. Just let it go, as annoying as that may be! No good will come of starting this fight.
SA
Living well is the best revenge.
Don’t ask for the money. Give him the stuff and wash your hands of him. He still lives with mommy, maybe he’ll need that money some day for rent…
:(
I’m sorry to hear about this. Sounds like a really good move to dump him.
I would not ask for the money or the tickets. It’s frustrating that you gave him an amazing and thoughtful gift and he sucks, but it wouldn’t really accomplish anything other than give him another opportunity to disappoint you or force another interaction with him to exchange the money.
Anonymous
No. Get a grip. You stupidly dated him for a year, you cannot send him a bill for a birthday present that didn’t come through. Completely absurd. Just because you went ridiculously all out doesn’t oblige him to.
CountC
Yea, do not do this.
I had an ex that I know really wanted to itemize me for all the money he had spent on me throughout our relationship. While your situation isn’t nearly as extreme, it was such a ridiculous idea that I owed him back anything spent over the course of our relationship just because it ended poorly. Get the EFF outta here.
Been there
I don’t think it’s petty but the tickets were like a birthday gift to him. My view is a gift comes with no strings. This is someone who really does not care that much about you or if he does, he is someone who lacks the sensitivity to learn what you like. I have seen people on this site talk about “love language” and even though I haven’t read the book, I think this guy doesn’t know your love language. In this case you might have to just forget the tickets or if it really matters i.e. not getting him to pay puts you in a tough financial position. You might ask, but do it in a nice way. This is someone you should move away from. Find someone who is sensitive to your feelings and emotions and who really wants to make it work.
OP
I think you might’ve gotten the two sets of tickets mixed up: (1) tickets to a game I got him for his bday; (2) tickets to a play he promised to get me for my bday but never actually got me. I don’t want or expect him to repay me for (1), which is the birthday gift I gave him. I’m wondering whether I should ask him to actually give me (2), which is his birthday gift to me that he promised me but hasn’t given me.
Anonymous
No, that’s ridiculous. Cut your losses and move on.
Opal
Don’t do it. Tough love? The relationship wasn’t good and you still gave him the “best night of his life” – lesson learned. Walk away, and don’t look back.
lawsuited
Lol, no, this is weird. You can’t insist that he give you a birthday gift or the monetary value of a birthday gift because your birthday came around while you were dating. He didn’t owe you a gift while you were dating (although obviously a nicer boyfriend would have done something to acknowledge the day), and he certainly doesn’t owe you a gift now that you’ve broken up.
OP
If he just didn’t acknowledge the day at all, I certainly wouldn’t now, 6 months later, demand a gift. The point is he promised a specific thing and never actually gave it to me. As in, he cut out an ad for this specific play, wrapped it in a box, and gave that to me for my bday with the promise that he would buy the tickets when I told him what day worked for me. And then he never did it. I know that he will never actually give me the tickets, but I’d like to call him out on the fact that he broke yet another promise to me. In his head, he thinks he gave me a great bday present because he PROMISED to get me tickets.
Anonymous
So, you don’t so much want the tickets, as you want to make him realize he’s a sh!tty gift giver and that you were way better at it then he ever was?
If you want to get that across, then give him back the box+clipping and tell him you don’t need it anymore, since it’s not worth anything. Asking for the money is going to make it a conversation about quid pro quos instead about breaking promises and just cloud the point you are trying to make.
Or do nothing. You know this is petty and not likely to make the point you are trying to make.
Brunette Elle Woods
Don’t ask for anything from him. Cut your losses immediately.
Anonymous
No. Don’t. Just mail him his stuff and don’t engage. He doesn’t owe you theater tickets and you should have dumped this loser ages ago. Call it a day and be glad you woke up.
Mpls
Don’t even ask. Gifts are given without the expectation of reciprocation, so I don’t really see it as a chance to be assertive. Assertive would be “You didn’t pay the part of the cable bill you said you would. The only reason I got cable here was because you wanted to watch it.”
The birthday things are in the past (more thant 6+ months ago for both, right?), so let it go and don’t spend any more timing figure out how to make him pay for wasting your time.
Anonymous
Don’t even ask. Gifts are given without the expectation of reciprocation, so I don’t really see it as a chance to be assertive. Assertive would be “You didn’t pay the part of the cable bill you said you would. The only reason I got cable here was because you wanted to watch it.”
The birthday things are in the past (more than 6+ months ago for both, right?), so let it go and don’t spend any more timing figure out how to make him pay for wasting your time.
Anonymous
So you’d be asking for the funds to purchase a gift he never got around to buying you? No, please don’t do this. He was childish and selfish – you don’t have to put up with it anymore. Buy yourself tickets and celebrate being free of him.
Anonymous
Yes, I think it’s petty (and useless) to demand the money/tickets. No doubt he should have given them to you after promising/is a jerk for not following through, but nothing good can come of starting another fight or dragging this out. Just move on and start feeling better sooner.
Hollis
I think Carolyn Hax is awesome and she’s given advice to people who are in a similar spot than you and I’m totally going to misquote her, but one thing she says about this situation is this: you got a deal! the cost of the tickets was all it took for his character flaws to come to light (i.e., he is not generous, thoughtful or kind)! you didn’t have to waste any more time or any more of your money on this loser. can you maybe see that as an upside to all of this? You were dating a taker, not a giver, and it cost you maybe a few hundred dollars and 1 year of wasted time, that’s it. Don’t let this guy take up any more of your thoughts and emotions than necessary. Cut the cord now and move on *today* to better guys. they are out there.
Bewitched
Go to the show with a friend and post all over Instagram and FB about what a great time you had, and how you are so glad to finally get to see the show. It won’t be as rewarding as confronting him to his face but I love a more subtle dig myself.
Gendered expectations?
Re: yesterday’s thread about answering emails at odd hours: do you think there are gendered expectations about what constitutes a legitimate excuse to be inaccessible for an hour or more? I’ve experienced some of this at my work and I wonder if others have too.
My experience isn’t necessarily that women are expected to respond more than men. It’s that a stereotypically feminine excuse isn’t a good excuse, but a stereotypically masculine excuse is. For example, associates don’t have to answer emails while they’re at the gym lifting, but they have to answer emails during yoga or while running/using cardio machines; going to a sports event is a good excuse, but taking your kid to a Taylor Swift concert is not; playing in a local softball league is a good excuse, but having dinner with your family isn’t. Anyone experienced anything similar?
Idea
How do people know what you’re doing? Is that in your “not available” message? Just be available, or not, during x to x pm. I agree there’s different expectations, but these examples seem very detailed and personal… “Well, if you’re sitting down to pee, you should totally reply on your phone, but obviously not while washing your hands.”
“OK, you don’t have to reply to email during your mammogram but yes to during your pap smear – you’re just lying there!”
WTH?
Woods-comma-Elle
I agree with this. I tend to not give reasons and just say that I’ll not be available between certain times. If I’m replying after a period of unavailability, depending on the circumstances I may say apologies for the delay *without reasons), but I try to limit that to where it’s absolutely vital, because it creates a certain expectation.
If people ask, I might say ‘I was away from my phone/reception was bad’ and leave it like that. It’s nobody’s business what I do in my spare time and most pf the time people don’t press or ask for details.
OP
I mean, we’re human beings, we talk to each other. If I’m chatting with a superior and they ask what I’m doing over the weekend, I’m not going to be all, “I will be unavailable between the hours of X and Y.”
Woods-comma-Elle
Sorry, I didn’t think that was what you were asking since you were concerned about the excuses being seen as valid I assumed they were more specifically in the context of ‘why didn’t you reply to X’.
Certainly I chat with my boss about what I get up to, but not in detail about every weekend. I would only expect to need to say when I will and won’t be available if there is a deal on that is likely to kick off or need to be done over the weekend. I tend to save the times when I say ‘I can’t do it’ to when I genuinely can’t do it e.g. I’m at a wedding/away for the weekend and even then only if there’s something I’m expecting to happen but I would only pre-empt that if something was specifically going on. If it’s a non-emergency, then the response can wait until Monday.
That said, this is really a know your office/boss thing, and my situation is not the same as yours. I’ve spent some significant time training my boss that I don’t reply to every single e-mail at the drop of a hat and there certainly isn’t an expectation of that unless a deal is on and everything is urgent. If there is a culture that you have to reply, and especially if there is a culture of what counts as a valid excuse, then that’s a bit different as you may need to play the game if you want to stay there.
Anon
I used to be a very open person at work and shared my life freely. It’s just how I’m wired – sort of an open, happy, chatty type.
This changed when I was going through a divorce and didn’t want to tell my coworkers. When they asked, “So what’d you do this weekend?”, I came to learn that, “Oh, ran some errands, went to the gym,” is as valid an answer as the truth of “Moved out of our apartment / cried in bed all weekend / drank 3 bottles of wine and yelled at romantic movies on Netflix.” Being vague is perfectly acceptable.
Now, my current coworkers didn’t know I had a LD BF until I’d been at the company for 6 months.
I know it reads kind of screwed up to fib, but I chose/choose to connect with my coworkers in other ways – chatting about their families, etc. People love to talk about themselves. You don’t often have to give much of an answer when asked about yourself.
Anonymous
Not so much gender-specific, but for some partners there is a parent/childless/single trend.
People without children or partners are assumed to be available more than the people who have partners or families and taking kid to a Taylor Swift concert is sometimes seen as a more valuable excuse than going to a Taylor Swift concert with a friend because you like Taylor Swift.
Anonymous
I’m single with no kids and this attitude drives me crazy! I might not be busy in the same way as working parents, but my life outside work is still valid…
APC
I can honestly say I never experienced what the OP said and I’m even a little baffled by it. But I have absolutely experienced the kids/no kids thing. If anything, in my big-law experience, childcare/family matters were much more respected than ‘dinner with friends’ or gym, or whatever.
a
That’s funny – recently, a male attorney explained why he’d be offline for a few hours as having to deal with “a childcare situation” — and the tone was that it was a serious/unexpected matter — whereas most attorney moms I work with could/would say [on this type of an internal email among a group of peers] something like, “sure, I’ll get back to you after I put the kids to bed at __.” It seemed odd to me at the time and if anything I came away with a negative impression of him — not because he cited the childcare issue, but that he didn’t talk about it like a normal human…
I’m not sure if that’s consistent or inconsistent with the OP’s point…
Anonymous
“Childcare situation.” Good grief. He probably had to watch his kids for a few hours when the babysitter cancelled.
Anonymous
I think “childcare situation” is a perfectly acceptable way for a man or a woman to explain they had a delay because they needed to deal with kids. You don’t know the specifics and aren’t really entitled to, and your reaction seems harsh to me.
Anonattorney
+1.
hoola hoopa
+1. I’ve definitely had “childcare situations.” That’s a perfectly normal thing for any parent to say.
hoola hoopa
That’s a +1 to Anonymous at 12:22
Doodles
How would these people know whether you are doing yoga or lifting at the gym? Why would they need to know that? The problem seems to be the oversharing. I’ve found that men at my firm are less likely to share why they didn’t respond or couldn’t be reached. They don’t make excuses as much as women do. Or their excuse is more general – “Apologies for the delay. Here’s the draft you wanted.” I’m an associate in BigLaw and there are times I’m not available but no one needs to know why (other than scheduled travel.) So I make general excuses like the men in my group and have found that most clients react positively. I’ve had clients respond to my delayed weekend email responses with a “No worries! I’m sure you’ve got a lot on your plate. We know it’s a busy time for you guys!” They didn’t need to know that I responded at 11pm saturday to their 7pm email because I was at the movies. I’ve never had any pushback from clients or partners on this but it may be specific to my group/firm. I also don’t make a habit of responding late (availability is part of the job).
Woods-comma-Elle
This was basically my point but more eloquently put.
hoola hoopa
Agreed. No, I have not experienced this in my profession/company – perhaps due to what Doodles below says. We are mostly “unavailable” not “at yoga” or “putting kids to bed” or “at a baseball game” or “other manly/womanly thing.” Why would you say that you have tickets to something instead of just saying that you are unavailable due to a prior commitment?
lawsuited
I think the key factor is whether the reason is relatable or not. I mostly report to male partners, so they’d be more likely to understand “I had baseball practice” or “I had court-side seats”, whereas my female colleagues would absolutely understand “my best friend from law school was visiting from another state” or “it takes 2 months to get an hair appointment” . I think the frustration is that to many of the people at the top are male, and therefore relate best to the “male” excuses.
But I also echo everyone else who said that I usually don’t provide a reason, I just respond when I respond, and apologize for the delay if I feel it’s necessary.
meal planning
I used to be great at meal-planning and grocery shopping for the week, but my life has become more spontaneous and I have really fallen off the cooking wagon.
I live alone, but have a boyfriend. I tend to eat dinner at his house or go out with friends 3-4 times a week. Due to busy schedules, plans are often really last minute. As a result, I can’t rely on leftovers to bring for lunch and end up buying lunch almost every day. I also struggle to grocery shop for the week, since I’m unsure of what’s to come. I hate grocery shopping after work, so I’ve been ordering a lot of takeout. How do you handle meals and cooking on an irregular schedule? I love cooking and have plenty of time on the nights when I’m home. Just looking for some motivation and ideas!
Anonymous
My dinner schedule is irregular too, plus I like to save dinner leftovers for dinner, so I never bring leftovers for lunch. I always pack my lunch the night before and I usually make some kind of sandwich.
Runner 5
When my schedule is all over the place I make good use of my freezer and storecupboard. Generally the only things in my fridge are fruit juice, milk, cheese (which keeps for ages), eggs (ditto) and things like ketchup and mayonnaise. Everything else is in the freezer (chicken pieces, fish, veg) or tins and packages (beans, pasta, rice, spices)
Anonymous
This is me.
I basically never buy fresh fish/chicken unless it is for a planned cooking occasion. Everything else is frozen or lasts a pretty long time. I keep some decent protein sources in the fridge so it is easy to throw together a basic dinner. And when I shop I try to get a few fresh fruits/leafy veg and never get too much so I wont waste. But everything below I basically keep in stock at all times.
Fridge: milk, yogurt, hummus, eggs, cheese, tofu (already marinated from Trader’s), smoked salmon in sealed packets. Carrots, oranges, Tomatoes (on counter)
Freezer: peas, corn. Individually packaged (by me) boneless chicken breasts. Frozen Costco or Whole Foods fish of the month. Shrimp. Whole grain bread.
Cabinets: canned chickpeas/black beans/tomatos/pasta sauce. Dried lentils and pasta.
Snacks: Dried fruit, nuts, popcorn, yogurt covered pretzels.
And a great spice/sauce collection.
Scrambled eggs is still on of my easiest, favorite dinners.
CMC
This! The freezer is your friend. Make something on a night you are free to cook that will freeze well. Pre-package it in a container you can ideally both warm it up in and eat it out of. Leave a few portions in your freezer at home, and take some to keep in the freezer at work. Repeat with another recipe the next time you want to cook so you can built up some variety. Homemade frozen meals are the *best* for a crazy schedule!
Also, if time allows, a lot of slow cooker meals are freezer friendly. Set the slow cooker to go overnight and package everything up in the morning.
Finally, is the issue that you feel you’re buying things that are going bad because you don’t end up with time to cook that week? Again, freezer. Either buy frozen ingredients to start with or put them in the freezer if it looks like they won’t be used soon.
raquiescence
BLUE APRON, girl. We do the “family plan” one where you get 4 servings with each meal — that way, I cook dinner for the two of us on, say, Wednesday and have leftovers for lunch Thursday and Friday. I was getting crazy burned out on Sunday meal prep and this new addition to my schedule has made all the difference in the world.
Coach Laura
For meal planning with an irregular schedule how about some of the following:
1) make chili or soup or stew and freeze single-serve portions that you can microwave for a quick dinner or just pick up and take for lunch. I like regular chili but also vegetarian chili.
2) have a list of 5-10 meals that are “pantry” meals – that is, they don’t require you to have fresh ingredients, fresh chicken or fish on hand. Ideas are pasta puttanesca (onions, garlic, capers, pepper flakes, canned tomatoes, canned anchovies, dried parsley, kalamata olives, canned tuna or frozen shrimp, pasta noodles), clam linguine. Google NYTimes quick recipes – there are some that only use things that don’t go bad. Pasta with Bacon, Lemon and pine nuts, for example.
3) Make batches of chicken strips and freeze in small sizes so you can defrost quickly and throw into stir fries, chicken curries, salads, pasta. Get frozen shrimp that thaw quickly. Have long-lasting veggies in fridge like broccoli, zucchini and bell peppers. Keep frozen garlic on hand, quick rice (or precooked), pasta noodles, good jarred pasta sauce. Then you have the beginnings of quick salads or pastas.
3)
TravelAnon
No answer but commiseration — this is my life and man, it’s a drain on the budget. One thing I do is buy a CSA subscription in the summer, so I’m locked in to eating a certain amount of vegetables. If they’re not finished on a see-the-man night, I stick some in my lunchbox and bring them to his house with a proposal that we make dinner. I have also had some success with buying frozen veg, rice, and meat patties at the grocery store at lunch one day and then hearing them up for lunch throughout the week. Just gets boring over time.
TravelAnon
Heating, not hearing. Add me to the “I miss the edit button” club.
Anonymous
I plan to cook 3 meals during the week and shop for those, then I’m flexible on which days I make them. At the end of the week, anything I haven’t used gets figured into the next week’s plan and I adjust accordingly.
hoola hoopa
+1 Plan for a few meals, eat the ones that won’t last first, and start with what’s left over for the next week.
Bonnie
+1 for Blue Apron. We do the meals for 2 plan and find that most of the meals leave us with leftovers.
TO Lawyer
I have a hard time with the cooking on a irregular schedule but for lunches, I make a pot of soup on Sunday and eat that for lunch all week. This only works if you’re ok with eating the same thing for lunch every day.