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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This high-waisted dress is one of the “customer favorites” over at The Limited, and it's easy to see why –it's a fun, flippy skirt that's one of those classics you can wear for years. I like the longer length here, as well as the higher waist — note that it's pictured with an obi belt. Another hit: this simple black pencil skirt with some nice piping details, now marked to $29 (was $49). The pictured skirt is available in regular and petite sizes for $41 (was $69). The Limited High Waist Chevron Skirt Two plus-size options are here and here. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]. (L-5)Sales of note for 8.30.24
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
CountC
I really like this skirt with the belt.
Happy Friday! I am unmotivated and procrastinating – tell me what you are wearing!
I have on kelly green skinny jeans, a white tank, and a navy mixed media 3/4 sleeve Pleione top, with brown leather wedges. I love these jeans – bright and cheery!
Cb
I’m so squirrely today – can’t seem to settle at my desk. Could finish off a chapter in a good 2 hours worth of work but haven’t managed to find the focus – pacing the halls. I’ve been super productive all week (and running myself ragged for months) so I think I’ve just hit a wall.
I’m wearing a blue patterned 3/4 sleeve dress from AT Loft, black tights and black Camper flats.
X
Working from home…
Dark denim jolt mini with buttons down the front. Peach/pink vee-neck tee. Seafoam green striped bikini. I’m going to the the beach for a swim during my lunch break
CountC
A lunchtime beach swim sounds amazing!! Enjoy.
Amelia Earhart
Dark wash jeans, cobalt & yellow patterned tank with a yellow cardigan and nude Sam Edelman flats.
CPA Lady
Ooooh, those jeans sound awesome. Where did you get them?
CountC
At an junior-targeted outlet store, the name of which I don’t recall, many years ago :( The tag on the jeans is not helpful either unfortunately!
jwalk
Maroon Ann Taylor sleeveless mixed-media button-down, white Express jeans, tan booties, and blush-colored cardigan. Yay for dress-down Fridays!
inhousejen
Olive green knife-pleated silk midi skirt, thick gold-toned leather belt, black short sleeve structured crop top (but it hangs just below the belt in the back and right at the middle of the belt in the front, so no stomach showing), gold/copper snakeskin print 4 inch point toe heels, gold and copper statement necklace, gold studs, and then my every day jewelry (watch, 2 bracelets, 3 rings). Had enough exec meetings today that jeans wouldn’t quite work but it’s in-house, so I’ve already had 3 people ask why I was so dressed up. Ah, the change from all-suits-all-the-time law firm life.
emeralds
That outfit sounds fabulous! It’s over 90 in my city today, so I’m just trying to stay cool–white a-line dress, sandals, and a long necklace.
inhousejen
Thanks! I’m always jealous of anyone who can successfully wear all-over white. It’s not so much the pens or spilling issues – it’s the back of the dress. I apparently have an unbreakable habit of leaning and sitting on dirty things. And walking around blissfully unaware for hours of the giant transfer spots on my back or a$$.
CountC
Thank you all for playing – loving the outfits!
Carrots
I’m a little tired from celebrating finishing all my work for my Masters last night – hallelujah, I am done!
Cobalt blue shift dress with a thin black belt to cinch because it needs taken in, mint green cardigan, tan flats.
Happy Friday!
TravelBug
Congrats — that is a BIG deal!
Never too many shoes
Have a major memo to finish – so am wearing the closest thing to a nightgown that I could find. Black, short-sleeved maxi dress, mixed metal statement necklace, diamond hoop earrings and flat, bejewelled gladiator sandals. It is also super hot and humid, so hair up in a twist.
Julia
Yea! for work pajamas on writing days.
Anonymous
At home studying for the bar exam with a toddler who is just getting over several miserable days with tonsillitis. It’s been an exhausting week. We’re going to the park for a picnic after his nap, so I finally changed out of my nightgown. I’m wearing a casual dark blue linen skirt and a lightweight t-shirt with an all-over graphic print of giraffes and brown gladiators.
Lilly
Dark navy Talbot cotton pique suit. It has three quarter length jacket sleeves and the pants are ankle length. Matching navy knit cotton shell. Big gaudy gold collar necklace. Tortoise patent SW pumps.
DC Anon
Ooooh I love this outfit. Totally inspired.
Amanda
I love the skirt and the belt – so sad they don’t have the belt! But I did buy the skirt.
I’m wearing a turquoise dress from MM La Fleur, which I absolutely love!
Denver AD
Cuffed dark wash boyfriend jeans, grass green and white sleeveless blouse with neckline detail, winter white Loft blazer, light gray slingback kitten heels. Diamond studs and my trusty bright floral lanyard.
Anon
Major league procrastination here. Cream jeans, blue pleated neck tie-die(ish) shaped t-shirt. Hard to describe the shirt, but perfect for summer in academia.
GCA
I’ll play. Faded skinny jeans, grass green ruffled short-sleeve top (think one of the Vince Camuto sorts, but no-brand from a market somewhere in Asia), navy cardi, silver flats.
Amy H.
Love this! I’m inspired — thank you!
Edna Mazur
A shirt that I just discovered you can see my bra through! Happy Friday all.
Wendy
It’s cloudy and cool here in Vancouver. I’m wearing a medium blue short-sleeve top, knee-length denim skirt, beige L’eggs Sheer Energy pantyhose and snakey flats.
Calibrachoa
I’m heading straight to the airport from work to go for a weekend awaym, and because it’s a casual Friday with no one else here, I’m wearing a black and white Maxi skirt, a tan suedette tank top, brown hiking boots and a Winter Soldier hoodie. Sometimes it pays to be the one in the office till stupid late :D
Laura B
I used to have a skirt with a pattern like this, and although I liked it in theory, it made me dizzy when I wore it.
Threadjack – what’s your favorite coffee drink? This seems so basic I’m actually a little embarrassed to ask anyone in real life. I didn’t grow up drinking coffee but have always loved the smell of it. I limit my caffeinated soda to one with lunch, but lately I can feel myself craving more caffeine. I’ve decided this is a vice I good with indulging, but I’m overwhelmed by the coffee drink options when I go to a Starbucks. So whats your favorite? What do I start with?
Cb
Not a coffee drinker but have a pretty intense black tea habit – I wouldn’t go to Starbucks for that though.
Hazel
I didn’t grow up drinking coffee either, and am still just branching out. Starbucks’ Vanilla Sweet Cream Cold Brew is my summer favorite right now (and feels like a much healthier indulgence than a frappucino!)
Lucky Lady
I was a little underwhelmed by this drink – but my expectations may have been too high because the first three times I went in for one they were out. :p
However I do love a similar drink at Peet’s, the Coconut Black Tie and normally I love all things Starbucks and dislike Peet’s (too strong)
lawsuited
+1 for the VSCCB!
Anonymous
Good espresso, lightly sweetened.
Best to try it at an artisan coffee shop, not Starbucks.
CountC
I am Team Not Starbucks, but if the group is going there I usually get a soy milk chai extra hot. Not coffee, and I am a daily coffee drinker, but I hate Starbucks coffee.
Shayla
My favorite drink is a soy no water chai.
anon in SV
That’s also my drink. extra hot no water soy chai.
CountC
I’m going to have to try the no water version!
Amelia Earhart
My go to is Dunkin Donuts iced coffee with cream, sugar, and a blueberry flavor shot.
Tetra
I’ve been getting a coconut iced coffee at DD — tastes like vacation!
soaps
yes! I love this from DD, too. Delicious.
But if you want something strong and sweet and wonderful, try a Vietnamese Iced Coffee :)
GCA
Vietnamese coffee is my secret weapon. I had to operate on 3h of sleep the other day (project deadline + teething baby) the other day and chugged along all day on a single Vietnamese iced coffee. Didn’t crash till 6pm by which time I was already having a beer with coworkers.
jwalk
Espresso is great, or my go-to at Starbucks is a caramel macchiato.
Former Biglaw
At Starbucks, if you want a regular cup of coffee, I’d order the blonde roast because the darker roasts get bitter fast. You might also try a “skinny vanilla latte” which is espresso plus a lot of milk. It will taste kind of sweet and give you a good jolt of caffeine. I like them hot or iced…depends on weather.
pugsnbourbon
My coffee tastes are seasonal – a skinny vanilla latte when it’s cold, iced coffee with vanilla and a decent slug of cream when it’s warm.
Former Sbux Barista
Do you know if you prefer lattes (milk) or water based? Water based could be brewed traditional coffee (not my favorite at Sbux) or hot water with a/many shot(s) of espresso (Americano).
I’d figure that out, then determine if you want hot or iced…. then just add 1 or 2 pumps of different syrups for a simple way to explore flavors at Bux. I think the standard number of pumps for sizes (3 for tall, 4 grande, 5 venti) is too much, but it’s all personal.
Carine
At Starbucks, I started out with vanilla lattes when I first began drinking coffee and now order an americano with room for cream. I much prefer it to their drip coffee, though I agree with a previous poster that the blonde roast is acceptable.
I will still get a seasonal latte here and there, but usually with one fewer flavor pump so it’s not so aggressively sweet. I never remember how many is standard so that’s exactly how I order: one fewer pump.
anon-oh-no
its interesting how different taste buds are. My preference is the Americano with room for cream. But ill order dark roast (or maybe the medium roast if its pike place) if I’m in a hurry. I can’t stand the blonde roast — really anywhere, not just Sbux. I guess I prefer a more bitter taste, because the darker the better. light roasts taste like watered down coffee to me.
Anonymous
I love homemade cold brew iced coffee (super easy to make) with a splash of half and half. For a more indulgent drink (both calories and money-wise) I like Dunkin’s iced coffee with cream (no sweetener as the cream makes it plenty sweet for me). I think Starbucks coffee tastes gross, although I do like their Java Chip frappucinos.
JEB
My current favorite is a double shot of espresso with a little whipped cream on top. It gives just the right amount of sweetness and creaminess when it melts into the coffee.
Goatsgoatsgoats
If you like chai, I’d recommend trying a dirty chai (a chai with a shot of espresso).
bridget
Homemade cold brew with sweetened condensed milk and a splash of cream.
I like dark roast coffee (usually French Roast if I’m making French press coffee). Peet’s has good espresso drinks.
Anonattorney
16 oz medium roast drip with a splash of nonfat milk and two splendas. And “holiday spice” lattes at Starbucks.
anon
My Starbucks go to is a Soy Misto. It’s coffee w/ steamed soy milk. The vanilla soy milk they use has just enough sweetness for me and I love the frothiness.
Anonymous
I like an americano misto, but honestly, starbucks has awful coffee, it’s overly bitter and I think it tastes burnt. I only drink tea there. At my local high-quality coffee shops,
I drink mostly americano mistos (which are like a latte, but half water/half steamed milk), but I also love lattes or a good mocha.
This might help you:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/coffee-drinks-espresso-explained_n_3935566.html
CMC
On a recommendation from someone here, I’ve been ordering the skinny cinnamon dolce at Starbucks lately. Tasty!
Amy H.
Mocha Freddo at Peet’s was one of my gateway drugs (now a hardcore every day coffee drinker). You can ask them to make it less sweet.
Also, Dunkin Donors’ (or homemade) iced coffee with lots of skim milk and one sugar.
If you have access to it, an artisan/single-origin pour-over coffee is *extremely* smooth and delicious. I love milk and sugar and hardly need any with a good pour-over coffee.
CKB
I recently started drinking coffee myself. I started with a caramel macchiato – they are yummy and not too bitter. I was surprised by how bitter coffee is.
CountC
Starbucks coffee is extremely bitter generally, IMO. I love coffee, but I cannot stand the Starbucks roasts.
Mariah
Iced latte if I’m just craving some caffeine without sweetness.
But right now, I am obsessed with the Starbucks Doubleshot on Ice (2/3 or totally decaf because it has allllll the shots of espresso). Espresso over ice with milk and simple syrup, shaken. SO GOOD.
shadow
I’d start with a latte (which is just espresso with milk and some foam). If you like sweet drinks, the vanilla latte (latte with vanilla syrup) or caramel macchiato (basically a latte with vanilla syrup and caramel – but they put in the espresso after the milk, instead of espresso then milk). Really really sweet – white chocolate mocha or mocha are both sweet drinks.
I like the iced coffee (they use pike place roast at Starbucks which is their medium roast) and cold brew. I usually get an iced coffee or cold brew with half the usual sweetener and 2% milk.
Anon for this
That post the other day about the woman who wanted to leave her live-in boyfriend got me thinking. I don’t think I could ever live with someone I wasn’t engaged to or if they were iffy about marriage. I’m not judging this woman (or anyone else who has made this choice) at all and I haven’t been in a long term relationship yet (mid 20s) so maybe my opinion will change. But it seems pretty common for people in my peer group and older to be living with their bfs without ever even talking about marriage and/or even having their own savings (and then theyre sh*t out of luck when things go south).
What do you guys think? Did you have “rules” about marriage before moving in with someone or did you just kind of wing it and it did or didnt work out?
anonymous
I just winged it, but I think we both had an underlying sense that it was going to last. We were also really young (23 and 25), but I think I really trusted him (and me too) to know how he felt about things and to be purposeful in how he approached things (as is a general trait of his). We both considered the relationship permanent but just didn’t feel like we had progressed to the point of marriage yet. I think mostly because we felt too young. It worked out great and we’re married now, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend this approach to others.
Anon in NYC
This was basically my situation as well. I (we) felt very comfortable with our relationship and its status at the time, and we both trusted each other to communicate if/when we wanted more (or less). We wound up living together for years before I felt ready to get married. We were both okay with this and it worked out great for us, but I think this is relationship and person-specific.
Cb
I moved in with my (now) husband really quickly. I was in a bit of a transition, finishing up a job with housing attached and doing a brief stint in another country (1 month away, 1 month back, 2 months away). We got engaged during that 1 month back formally but had decided to get married before we left. But we had talked about marriage, families, any deal breakers within 3-4 months of dating. I don’t think I’d entangle my life with someone else’s without knowing they weren’t on the same page.
Cc
I think there is a huge difference between having “rules” and winging it. When I moved in with my bed, I knew that he wanted to get married. Moving in together brought us a million times closer. Looking back I can’t imagine how I would’ve known he was the one for me without living together. We tackled bills, finances, moving, personal loss, great joy, career triumphs together. Moving in together is how I found out that my favorite place in the world is sitting sideways on the couch with my feet in his lap talking about our days. One year later we knew we wanted to get married (we were 25 at the time). Spent the next two years saving up and got engaged. It would have happened a lot quicker if not for our ages and earning power – I was still I law school. I never once doubted his commitment or intentions though – it would have been a very different feeling if I felt like he was blowing me off.
This is a long way of saying that I don’t think a lot of people are “winging it” for me everything worked out beautifully. Sometimes you move in together and realize the bad things are deal breakers. Getting married before you do that isn’t some life sentence- it just means there is a divorce as well as a messy move out to go through.
Anon
I moved in with my (now) husband before we were engaged after we had been dating for a little over a year. We were young–21 when we moved in together, but had discussed marriage/our future. He wanted to formally propose with a ring, but since we were students it took a while for him to save up. He proposed after we had been living together for 6 months.
Anonymous
Rules are great, then life happens. Your comment reminds me of Up In The Air, when Anna Kendrick’s character asks the other two about ‘settling’.
Wildkitten
Yeah I used to think I’d care but apparently I don’t. Also your friends may be discussing marriage on their own timelines and not sharing that information with you.
anne-on
I had an ex move in with me (in a studio, ah NY) and we broke up shortly afterwards for unrelated reasons. It was a short term co-habitation as I was in the process of moving and he took over my lease, but the experience definitely made me gun shy about moving in with anyone again. My current husband and I were on the same page when we moved in together – it was a precursor to engagement or else I wouldn’t have agreed, and the engagement would happen within 6 months of us living together or he’d move out. It was basically a trial run in a ‘I’m 99% sure I want to marry you, but first I need to make sure your living habits don’t make me want to kill you’ kind of way.
anonamoose
Similar experience: I lived with BF in early 20’s with no plans of or interest in marriage. It was easy enough to undo when the relationship ended because we had relatively few possessions & simple finances.
But I didn’t want to be tied down to a live in boyfriend again, without some promise of and plan for a future together. With a live-in BF, you have all the drawbacks of marriage (balancing chores, figuring out finances, listening to snores) and none of the benefits (long term commitment, someone who’s really got your back). I told my now-husband that I wouldn’t live together unless/ until we were engaged. Otherwise, I wanted the freedom of dating.
NYNY
Team wing it here. My now-husband moved in with me just a few months after we started dating because the logistics of seeing each other were becoming complicated and all we wanted to do was be around each other. We were together nearly 5 years before we got engaged, but a lot of the lag is because I wasn’t sure if I wanted marriage, but I knew that we were a team.
The concept of dating rules confuses me. Each relationship is unique, and “rules” imply that there’s uniformity. Also, most dating rules I’ve heard imply that men and women have opposing goals and you need to have a game plan to win – don’t give this until he gives that. It’s been a long time since I dated, but that was never the way I wanted to approach relationships.
anonymous
Your last paragraph. All of it.
bridget
I know men who had healthy biological children, no fertility treatments required, in their fifties.
If a man wants to delay marriage, spend a lot of time thinking about it, or just date for years and years before deciding it’s not right, it can still work out for him.
Such indecision, however, makes decisions for the women involved.
I will stop having dating rules when women can have late-in-life babies as easily as men can.
MrsPotatoHead
Dating rules are like financial rules. I have a rule that I must save x% of my income. When I was dating I had a rule against moving in with a boyfriend (as opposed to a fiancee). My rules are decisions I’ve made to protect myself. Furthermore, I made them when I was thinking less emotionally than I am when budget breaking/ awesome boyfriend-related decisions present themselves.
Anon
I dated now husband for several years when we were students, but we didn’t live together. He then did something rather shady and we broke up. We ended up getting back together months later (after I understand the shady thing was actually brought on by serious mental health issues and he apologized and got help) but those getting back together discussions came with a firm commitment that we were getting married, as soon as we could afford to do that. We moved in together shortly after but always with the firm commitment we were getting married – and we got engaged about a year later.
I guess that’s not so different from the situation of the OP from the other day – she also moved in with someone with the commitment they would get engaged, they just weren’t yet and he didn’t follow through.
I think it’s tough to say you wouldn’t move in before you’ve actually been in a long term relationship.
In our case, things happened in a very structured way but that was necessary given our long prior history, break, mental health stuff, etc. Also I don’t worry because I am the primary income earner, so if he ever up and moved out, I would be just fine (he would not be able to maintain our current lifestyle, however). Most of the time, moving in together happens organically (and can really depend on when leases are up and financial situation). Esp. for adults in a city who both have expensive one bed condos, it’s crazy to pay $X each a month when you could split $X if you’re over at each others place every night.
cbackson
I didn’t live with my ex-husband before marriage and would not be interested in living with someone to whom I wasn’t engaged. But I’m older, and timelines are shorter at my life stage.
Anonymous
This is interesting. I would never, ever marry someone without living with him first. I’ve lived with my boyfriend for a year and a half. It is wonderful, and we are happy. We’ll get engaged at some point, but I’m not overly fussed about when.
AnonLondon
This.
Anonattorney
Agreed. I don’t know how you can decide you’re ready to marry someone if you haven’t yet lived with them.
Anonymous
I agree that life happens i.e. people sometimes live together for other reasons. That said, assuming that both of us can support ourselves I too would prefer not to live with a boyfriend unless we were planning on getting married. I’m in my mid-30’s and one of the reasons for me is that I wouldn’t want to make too many adjustments in my life for someone who may be temporary. In the case of expensive living costs, I would rather get a roommate. At this point I think that if I absolutely had to live with someone without knowing whether or not we are staying together then we would have to discuss things like the financial implications of things going “south” as you put it. I also agree with the OP who was frustrated that the boyfriend didn’t propose within a certain timeframe. Things in the relationship can change during this living together period, if they do one should feel free to leave. Its not the same as when people choose to divorce or separate but its similar, even after marriage things can go badly. You should not feel compelled to stay.
Anon
I moved in with my SO. We dated in college but neither of us wanted to move in together after, even though we specifically took jobs in the same city so we could stay together. We each lived with various roommates for 2 years and ended up spending all our extra time together. So when our leases were up we planned to move in together. At that point we weren’t (either of us) dead set on marriage, but we were living together in all but official status anyway. We got a place and kept our finances 100% separate, everything related to the living situation (bills, rent, food) split 50/50 just like we had done with roommates. He made way more than I did, and I was in grad school, but we lived where I could afford my share. He paid for most date nights etc.
Had we broken up, none of our accounts were in any way co-mingled.
As it happened, after about a year of living together we started the “ok what’s next. Break up or marry?” Convos, and we were both in “stay together” mode. He proposed and we married a year or so later.
Only once we were married dos we combine back accounts, purchase property together, etc. mid engagement we had the loans/savings/financial transparency conversation but we’ve always been pretty open so there were no hidden surprises.
sfbay
interesting – I’m in my mid 20s and I feel like I would NEVER even consider marriage without living with someone. I’ve had several good friends break up with seemingly-super-serious SOs after they live together because it comes out that that as feminist on paper as the other person is, he expected my friend to shoulder the majority of the housework burden, or they were actually really difficult to get along with when you saw them 24/7, or in one case, we found out about the guy’s drinking and adderall problem. My dad was also horrible in that he never lifted a finger to help around the house and I can’t imagine being married to a guy who I don’t make sure in a “test-run” of living together is not like that to the extent that I can.
Katie
I’m in my early 30’s and my bf and I have just moved in together after dating for almost 4 years. We agree that marriage is something we want, and are looking at this as simply “we need to make sure we can co-habitate and not murder each other” before making that leap. While our families were understandably a bit concerned that there’s no ring yet, we’ve made it clear that for us, this is the next logical step in our relationship, and we wouldn’t be doing this if we didn’t genuinely plan on building a life together. I couldn’t imagine making this move without having those conversations first, though I have plenty of friends who’ve done it. I’ve also seen people get stuck in bad relationships when they can’t afford to move out when it goes sour.
We don’t plan on combining finances until there’s a ring, so for now, everything is split 50/50, although he makes more than I do. There’s transparency about where our money is going, our goals (financial and otherwise), and where we’re headed.
MargaretO
I’m in the same age range as you and I agree – I would never ever make a lifetime commitment to a man without living with him, particularly because of gender role related issues. I also know a few women who went through that experience of discovering that a partner was not as feminist in his household as he claimed to be, and that would be a major deal breaker for me. My parents have an extremely egalitarian marriage and always told me that living together before they were officially engaged (but very emotionally committed and planning on getting married eventually) was important and advised me to do the same some day. Maybe its a function of my age or my social circle, but to me the idea of waiting to be engaged to live together is totally archaic and ill advised, everyone I’m friends with shares the same attitude.
emeralds
+1. I used to not think I’d want to live with someone before being engaged, and then I realized (partially through reading this s i t e) how many men expect women to be their personal assistants/chef/maid/life organizer/emotional laborer. I’m not interested in filling that role, so no way am I getting married before it’s clear that my partner will do his fair share.
I’m actually moving in with my boyfriend next week, so we’ll see how it all goes! We’ve been long distance for two years, although we do see each other almost every weekend, and we were just going to have to be in the same place to move our relationship forward. He wasn’t happy in his organization and has the kind of job that’s everywhere, so it made more sense for him to relocate to my city. In terms of leases, budgets, life priorities, and the fact that neither of us wanted a random roommate, it made the most sense for us to live together. I’m excited!
MargaretO
Congratulations on moving in together!
Scarlett
I didn’t live with anyone before I met my husband in my 40s, and we married quickly but moved in first once we planned to marry. It wasn’t about commitment to the guy though – I live in SF where housing is tough to get and rent goes up dramatically if you get a new place so I wasn’t willing to destabalize my housing situation until I had to. Fwiw, every guy I dated with a rent controlled apartment felt the same way. I also didn’t like the idea of having even more disruption at the end of a relationship so living together always seemed to be too much. But different strokes, I just think people should be on the same page about why they are living together.
Anon for This
I recently moved in with my boyfriend of just over 1.5 years- we both were in the camp of no moving in before getting engaged for a long time, then changed our minds when we realized it’s not *that* big of a deal. I think eventually you have to sort of wing it- there is not going to be a magical sign to tell you when to move in with someone. The idea was that after a year we would decide yes/no re engagement since he has to move in a year for a temporary job, so there is a natural end point to it. We dealt with so much drama from families about moving in together, but people finally seem to be coming around. It’s funny how opinionated people get about things like this- I have never dealt with a situation where everyone i know felt the need to comment on whether we should do it or not, or if I should live alone, and the blatant judgment from many people…I can only imagine what pregnant people / married but no kids / etc deals with.
Anon for this
As a very young single person I watched a slightly older friend wait and wait and wait for a proposal from her boyfriend. They moved in together right after college and she eventually waited NINE years. It made an impression on me, and I decided I would not move in with someone until I was engaged, and I would not date someone for more than a year without a serious discussion of whether there was long-term potential . In the end my husband proposed on the one-year anniversary of our first date (he did not know about my little rule, and we were mid/late 20’s at the time), and we moved in together a couple of months later, into a new place we rented together. I think it’s fine to live together without an engagement if you’re on the same page about the future of the relationship, by I also feel like my little guidelines for myself worked very nicely.
Elle
I was team 100% not living with someone prior to marriage. Part of this was family expectations/religious and part was I had seen it go south for others. I was dating my now-husband for a year when my roommate had an unexpected event and needed to move. I could have moved in with a friend, but I knew engagement was imminent (literally, the day was being planned and intended to be a surprise but I found hints it was coming). I had told him we would not live together prior to marriage, so when I brought up moving in, he was pretty shocked. We got engaged and moved-in within days of each other. I like to say that technically we didn’t live together prior to getting engaged because technically my lease ended the day after we got engaged, but he disputes that fact. He also doesn’t know that I knew the engagement was coming then vs just a general “soon” timeline. Our wedding date was less than a year after our engagement. It logistically didn’t make sense to me to move in with someone for such a short time just to keep up appearances.
All that said, I think you can be firm in your convictions while still being realistic.
anonshmanon
We’ve been a couple for over 5 years now, and lived together for 1,5 years. It would have happened sooner, but the first 3 years, we had jobs in different cities.
We knew very early on that this was “it”. Permanent relationship, probably kids down the road. In all practical regards, we are like a married couple.
The legal title and that peace of paper are just irrelevant to us. I am based in Europe but looking for jobs in the US. From this thread I am getting the vibe that our situation would be much more unusual (maybe frowned upon?) than I thought.
Anonymous
It’s not. Most of my friends are adults cohabitating but not engaged. I got exactly zero raised eyebrows when I moved in with my boyfriend of just over a year. Most people don’t care what others do and/or have the sense not to comment on other people’s living arrangements.
MargaretO
Maybe it depends on where you move to? I’ve never encountered this attitude, I’ve mostly lived in large to mid sized cities in the northeast. But even so Americans are definitely far more focused on marriage than Europeans, if you have kids out of wedlock even in the context of a committed long term relationship you will turn heads no matter where you live.
Anonymous
At this point in my life, I don’t go on a third date with someone unless I know he’s interested in getting married in the not-too-distant future, so it’s hard for me to understand why someone would move in with their partner without talking about marriage timelines. I think it depends which you value more: your partner or your future (i.e., being married in a certain timeline/having children). Do you love this person so much that you want to be with him/her regardless of whether marriage/children is on the table? Then wing it. But if your life goal is to be married by a certain age or have biological children, then you should make that clear pretty early in the relationship.
Walnut
We moved in together after a year or so because we were disgusted with the thousands of dollars we were flushing down the toilet each month by maintaining two separate households.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
THIS.
Anon
I refused to live with my husband until we were engaged. I originally was planning to wait until we were married but a great opportunity presented itself after we got engaged so we decided to move in together. It was a statistics thing for me. Marriages where the couples cohabitate before getting married have a higher divorce rate, but this correlation disappears if they live together after they are engaged. No judgment for others who make different decisions, this was just the thought process behind my “rule.”
anonshmanon
I googled this statistics, as I had never heard about it before. It seems there are different ways to look at the data (as always)
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-science-of-cohabitation-a-step-toward-marriage-not-a-rebellion/284512/
tl;dr on average people move in together at younger ages, vs. marry directly at higher ages. The age mainly determines how stable their commitment is. If you compare cohabitation-first people with directly-marry people at the same age, their divorce rate is similar.
another anon
I am in the minority here (and possibly because I grew up in a very traditional family), but it’s actually important to me to *not* live with someone until I am married. If there was a short timing issue during engagement (e.g., one person’s lease was up a month before we were getting married), I’d consider possibly moving in during an engagement, though I think I’d just plan around this. Of course, I don’t think my way is the better way. It’s just important to me.
layered bob
You’re definitely in the minority, but you’re not the only one! Did not live with or even sleep with my husband before marriage. Seven years of marriage, two graduate degrees, and one baby later, he is exactly who I thought he was before we married.
Spirograph
I can’t imagine this (although I grew up with this mentality only to toss it in my 20’s when I was feeling rebellious and susceptible to peer pressure), but I’m glad it works for some people. I think, like just about everything, it matters much less what your individual opinion is than whether you and SO are on the same page. It always comes down to respect and compatibility. I have a divorced friend who is very upfront that she will not live or sleep with anyone before marriage. She’s had a couple relationships fail when the guy she was dating realized she is actually serious about it, and I think she gets some flack about it even from other girlfriends, but she insists (and I agree) that the right man will respect her decision, and that will tell her who he is just as well as living with him would have.
layered bob
this is a great way of looking at it.
CKB
Me too. We celebrate 22 years next month and have 3 kids. Worked for us. We were also stupid young, but I don’t regret anything.
Delta Dawn
Me too! Definitely not saying this is the best way, or the only way; it’s just the way DH and I chose. Like you, it was important to us, and it has worked out beautifully.
Cat
My husband and I did this also — we did have s3x and had “sleepover” weekends/ went on vacations together, so it’s not like we didn’t have *any* experience living in the same space, but the formal move-in wasn’t until a few months before our wedding. I had no concerns about “co habitability” or being the sudden de facto housekeeper based on (1) husband’s ability to grocery shop and clean and run errands for himself and (2) how we cooperated on such things during shared time.
Anonymous
I’m in my mid-thirties now and married for almost ten years. My husband was my fourth long term boyfriend. My rule was no cohabitation before engagement, both because I didn’t want to deal with moving out after a break-up, and also because I knew it would provoke a huge fight with my parents.
bridget
My rule: a ring and a date.
I don’t think any rule that my grandmother followed will lead me astray.
I’ve also been in two long-term relationships in which everyone and their mother asked when we were moving in together, and I am profoundly happy we did not. During the most recent relationship, I did spend a few months at his place (while still paying all the bills at mine), and it was fun and great… but he wasn’t ready for marriage and that was a deal-breaker.
We are very good friends now, and I think the lack of a move-out when we broke up helped. A lot. I was able to go back to my lovely rental house in the town I adore, and didn’t scramble to find something to accommodate myself and my pet at the last minute.
Anonymama
Mm, I don’t know your grandma, but thinking of my own grandmothers and their very long marriages, I wouldn’t look to their example if I was trying to maximize personal fulfillment or a happy marriage. But then again their “rule” would have been No Sex Until Marriage, forget even thinking of living together.
Snick
I lived with my first serious BF in my early 20s and my now-husband in my late 20s to early 30s. The first one was a tumultuous relationship and bad in so many ways. Based on that experience, I would never have married without first living together. My now-husband and I lived together for about 5 years, married for 16 years. I actually don’t regret the first live-in relationship. It was a formative experience and I learned a lot from it.
CountC
I’ve lived with two now ex-bfs (both started LD). While the relationships didn’t work out (we had discussed marriage as the eventual goal both times), I don’t regret either move as I learned something about myself and what I wanted in a relationship. One break-up was really amicable and one was a disaster, but I had protected myself financially and had family to use as a point between apartments/living situations.
DC Anon
My only “rule” (although I like describing it as my approach rather than my rule) is don’t move in with someone unless you both see the other person as the person you’d like to be with permanently. My now-husband and I moved in together a little over a year in after discussing that we both felt we were it for each other. We then took another 3 years to get engaged (both of us saw getting married as a logistical thing and I finally said hey I would like to get married this summer which means we should officially get engaged so we can start inviting people).
Where I see people run into problems is when they move in together out of convenience/financial reasons, or because they view it as what one does after a certain period of time. But they never take the time to sort out with each other whether both people are convinced that the other person is for them. And then they live together for a while and it turns out they’re not on the same page about how serious they are about the other person. Living together really entwines your lives though–financially, emotionally, logistically–and it becomes much more difficult to move on.
I’m also thinking of several couples I know who lived together and then split up and it was as though they were dealing with a divorce. I think moving in together deserves very serious thought given that you are effectively marrying someone (but without the legal benefits).
Tl;dr, I think it’s important to live together before making it legal, but I don’t think it’s a great idea to move in together until you’re both on the same page that you see each other as permanent partners.
Anonymous
I moved in with my now-husband after dating for about a year. There were practical reasons (we lived abroad, my lease was up, his place was better and I was spending most of my time there anyway), but we really winged it. We were young (23ish) and embraced the mindset that we were just enjoying our 20s and when we moved back to the States we’d wait and see whether we ended up in the same city, but no pressure to follow each other. We ended up coordinating our move back to the US a year or so later and got engaged soon after that. 10 years later, we’re still going strong. I would not have been OK with long-term (like the 9 years mentioned above!) cohabitation if I didn’t think marriage was on the table; ultimately I wanted to get married and have children. I think I explicitly told my husband that when we were dating, along the lines of “this is fine for now, but a few years is enough time to figure out whether this is for real, and if it’s not, we shouldn’t waste each other’s time.”
I was very, very worried about what my parents and grandparents would say, but if they disapproved they didn’t tell me. I don’t think twice about anyone living arrangements w/r/t marital status. I do think living with a SO gives you a LOT more information about a person than you can get otherwise, but I don’t think cohabitation before marriage has a huge impact on the success of a marriage one way or the other. Where it can go wrong is if there’s pressure to get married *because* you’re living together instead of coming to that decision independently of that factor. But as long as you maintain the ability to walk away if/when the relationship stops working, it’s just a living arrangement.
inhousejen
I dated my now SO for 3 years in college, we took a 13 year break (no contact, no nothing), then reconnected (through LinkedIn of all places) 3 years ago and have been together ever since. He technically still owns his house, but has lived with me for all but 1 month of our 3 years together this time around. We make long-term future plans for several years out, but no discussion of engagement or marriage. And if marriage happens, I’ll be comfortable with that. And if it doesn’t, I’m currently comfortable with that – and we’ve discussed that if it becomes a dealbreaker for either of us, we’ll discuss.
Close friends and family didn’t bat an eye – neither of us had ever lived with a SO before (we’re late 30s now), so not sure if that played a role. But I get questions about it from randoms All. The. Time. Sometimes we just register as married or don’t correct someone if they assume we are because it’s so much easier than defending our life choices (generally at one-offs, like restaurants, hotels, cabs, etc.). But it incenses me when people assume that if you’re a certain age and in a relationship, you must be married or really, really upset that you aren’t. Like I’m automatically reduced to caricature of a poor little girl sitting in bed crying over back issues of wedding magazines.
In Texas, since some people thought there might be geographic norms in play.
anon
In the early 2000s when I was in my early 20s I lived with the boy that I thought I was going to marry. He was my high school boyfriend and we made it through college as a couple even though our universities were in different countries. after all those years of long distance and longing I discovered he was actually a bit of an ass and the relationship ended the next year.
I also moved in with my now DH about six weeks after we met. No one had said the M word but it was obvious.
Most of my friends have waited for a ring or a conversation about marriage before moving in.
B
I moved in with my BF very quickly, and the factors influencing that we live in a HCOL area and the stars aligned with our respective leases. We aren’t in a hurry to get engaged or married, but we’ve “known” that this relationship is it/the one/etc. since our second date.
However, because we did move quickly, I was very practical with “rules” for myself. I immediately beefed up my emergency account to ensure that I had first month + last month + security deposit + moving expenses ready in case I needed to move out. Second, because I couldn’t carry the rent in our new place alone, we drafted up and signed a “roommate agreement” setting out financial responsibilities in the event we ended the relationship.
Anon4Dis
Now-husband and I de facto moved in together after about 8 months, officially it was more like a year (he rented a room but mostly just kept his stuff there and spent every night at my place, which became our place when he gave up the room). It was NYC, we shared a studio. We kept separate savings accounts but had a joint account (1/3 of each of our take-home income) for house stuff. Without serious engagement/marriage talk (besides “we’ll prob get married one day, y’think? yeah.”) we decided to move abroad together: paid off our outstanding loans, dumped everything that was left into a joint account, and we’ve been a communist system ever since ;) We didn’t get engaged, really, but we got married about 5 years after we moved in together. I have no regrets about it, except sometimes I wish we’d kept like a 10%-of-paycheck separate account, so I could waste my money on frivolous things without him knowing.
Gert
I didn’t live with my ex-husband until we got married. Moving in together was a big shock, and ultimately the marriage did not work out for a variety of reasons.
I’m now living with my boyfriend of six months (yes it was a little quick but happened to work out this way similar to what some other posters have said and is going well so far), and don’t care if we ever get married or not.
Networking
I’m a midlevel real estate associate in in DC. I have been going to networking events and social events in an effort to make more connections. While I will not be up for partner for another 4-5 years, I want to start planting the seeds now so to speak. However, I am having a hard time envisioning landing these clients – real estate still seems to be an “old boys club”, particularly the real estate developers and construction firm where I have the most experience. The men are older and I am younger and I don’t think they will ever see me as an authority on a topic enough to engage me as outside counsel. I know I am still fairly young and have some time to go before this will really matter, but I don’t see this changing in 4-5 years. The younger connections I have made are still new in their careers, like me, and I don’t expect they will make GC in the 4-5 years I will need a client or two. I enjoy networking and am generally a confident and warm person (actual feedback I have gotten during reviews), so I don’t think personality is an issue. Maybe I just don’t understand how this works? Should I be developing a niche field? Targeting different networking events? What can I be doing different for the next several years?
Cc
So it hard breaking into a boys club, but i wouldn’t write off everyone. I’m 29 and have developed a good relationship with my construction older men clients- we aren’t best friends but they listen to me, implement my advice and seem to like me. Be authentic and confident at these events. Take classes on public speaking and try to give small seminars or be a speaker at panels where they will be. Always be prepared for any meeting you have with them, and run the meeting of no one is (and of course if it’s your Meeting) I think this is the skill that has got me the furthest- it’s an under rated skill. You know those meetings where someone else called it but doesn’t have an agenda and everyone is just talking at each other? Be the de facto facilitor. Outline action items at the end and use that technique where you repeat back what people said. It puts you in an authority position with very little effort.
D. Meagle
Also a female RE attorney. Highly recommend joining professional women networking groups (either geared towards professionals generally or the real estate industry), or trying to find the women’s groups in co-ed networking groups. Depending on your age, you can look into the “Young Professional” groups too. Two that come to mind – Commercial Real Estate Women (national women’s real estate networking group with local chapters) or CORE Net (co-ed, but they have have a women’s section); in my area, both groups have a young leader section also (I think under 40).
CRE, also
Careful with CREW. Mixed reputations by city. Just do a little vetting before you engage.
Daughter
Interesting – in the two cities that I’ve lived I really liked and appreciated the CREW chapters.
What negatives interactions have you experienced/heard about?
And yes, I think that you can be respected in this professional field. I think you’re doing the right things by putting yourself out there in those networking situations. It just takes a minute.
SC
I have a coworker who has had a lot of success (albeit in another area of law) identifying potential clients who are also not part of the “ol’ boys club.” Keep going to these networking events, but also keep an eye out for potential clients/customers who are also not part of this club and may be looking for a good lawyer to help them. Ideas include small business/entrepreneurial workshops, professional groups for women, minorities, and young people, and emerging industry segments.
Also, I focus on networking with people in my generation (more or less). I once made a comment to my FIL, who is very much part of the ol’ boys’ club in our city, that his friends are “fancy.” And he responded, “Well, they weren’t when we were all drinking together in our 20s.” The point being, the current members of the ol’ boys’ club will be replaced one day. Network with those replacements (in general, not necessarily specific individuals)–and hope that it’ll be a more diverse, inclusive group in the next generation too.
Anon
You are also very, very junior still. I could technically make partner this year, and this is literally the first year that I’ve felt like an “expert” sitting across the table pitching my skills to a potential client. Network with folks of your generation, and see what happens as you get more experience.
In-House Europe
As a female GC in a male-dominated business, I would second the advice you have received – look for people who are similarly outside the old boys club. My main outside counsel are all female because, TBH, that is who I get along with on a personal level best, and I also like to support female partners. Those people just starting out may be me in another 4 or 5 years when you are moving into a partner position.
Aki
Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy prescription sunglasses online (other than Warby Parker)?
Anon
My husband and daughter have used Zenni Optical and have been pleased with their regular glasses. I think the sunglass selection is pretty limited though.
Anonymous
I ordered a pair of prescription sunglasses from Zenni and they were exactly what I paid for. They look like they could be from eBay. They were also like $12 though and I took them on a trip where I didn’t want to worry about losing my nice script glasses, so perfect for that.
In DC
Zenni is great. While they have limited sunglasses frames per se, they will put tinted lenses into any frame. I have a small face and use regular frames with tinted lenses for my sunglasses. So nice to have a prescription pair for cheap!
Anonymous
I have bought from both Zenni optical and Polette.
Anonymous
This is late but we’ve ordered from Gaffos three or four times over the years and been extremely happy
Anon
What would you do if your boyfriend was searching for a really, really niche job and wouldn’t settle for anything else? I’m struggling with how to give advice to my friend who is in this situation; her boyfriend is 30, has never had a permanent job, and has taken lots of temporary jobs in the field he hopes to stay in long-term (working for a specific branch of government). It has made it very hard for them to plan a future together because these temporary jobs send him all over the place and he is completely unwilling to search for any other kinds of jobs that might be more stable. While they have discussed moving in together, all of that hinges upon him finding that mythical permanent job and she is getting tired of waiting around (they’ve been having this same argument for two years and I’ve been hearing about it for that long as well). Any tips or advice to share? Has anyone ever come out of a very prolonged job search like that being MORE stable?
Anonymous
I would run for the hills because my preference is to date adults who live in reality. But your friend is obviously getting something out of this since she has stuck around for 2 years. If she is tired of waiting around it is on her to stop waiting.
anonymous
He sounds awfully immature. If I were her, I think the question I would ask myself is would I still want to stay in this relationship if the status quo doesn’t change.
CountC
+1 My first thought was does she really want to stay in this relationship because I wouldn’t want to. TWO YEARS?!
He is prioritizing his unicorn job over their relationship, which is certainly his prerogative, but she has to decide whether that’s the type of relationship she wants to be in. How else is he going to prioritize over the years? Getting that unicorn luxury car over saving for retirement?
Meg March
I think she has to decide whether this is a deal breaker or price of admission, as the wise Senior Attorney always says. A lot of people in politics DO constantly jump from job to temporary job– some people are just campaign junkies, for example. If he never finds a permanent job, would she be okay with that? Sounds like the answer is no.
Anon
Personally, I think the relationship is on a crash course – I don’t think he’s as committed to moving in together if he doesn’t get a FT job, whereas if that scenario were to happen, she would want him to follow her to wherever her next FT job is. I just somehow don’t see that happening because I question his maturity and commitment to the relationship. This is all coming to a head in November when his current temp job ends, but she gets really upset if you even suggest the possibility of trouble ahead.
CountC
If she gets really upset, it’s probably best not to offer any advice at all and just listen. It sounds like she is probably asking for reassurance to stay in the relationship, which in your position, I would probably not want to give.
Anon
Yeah, I’ve tried to be supportive/reassuring, but sometimes I’ve said things like “it might be good to prepare for where YOU want to go, even if he doesn’t come with you.” I’m worried she’s going to stall her career for his. I agree that I don’t think she wants to hear that, though.
CountC
Someone once told me that one of the hardest things about parenting is letting them make their own mistakes. I am not a parent, so I have no idea if this is true, but I think here you have to let her make her own mistakes. If she is truly not open to hearing advice, then there is no point in giving it. Maybe it will get better and maybe it won’t . . .
I’d likely change the subject next time she brings it up.
bridget
This reminds me of the saying that advice is what you ask for when you know what you are supposed to do but don’t want to do it.
In this situation, I think I would just lay out the facts, as briefly as possible, and then a one-sentence conclusion (e.g., “He will be putting this mythical job ahead of you and your relationship; decide if that’s something you want, and if he’s telling you something about your relationship by doing this.”).
Delta Dawn
I had a friend in a similar situation. They had dated for three years, and every so often his job would end (he was bouncing around various campaigns and congressional offices, and his bosses would either lose their elections or not bring him on when they won, etc). He kept promising to propose “once he found a stable job,” but there was never a stable job because he never tried to find one. After the fourth time, she finally realized (on her own) that he wasn’t going to make an attempt at stability– not with a job, and not with her, either.
There’s not much you can do or say until she gets it herself. But you are being a good friend.
Anonymous
I’ve seen two marriages go through this: one worked and one didn’t. At the beginning, I would’ve counseled both of them to get divorced. One couple really proved me wrong and I’m glad now that I kept my mouth shut.
I’ve done a lot of reflecting on the differences between these two couples. I’m not sure any outsider, no matter how close you and your friend are, can tell whether the relationship will work. It depends so much on the two people in the relationship. For my couple that didn’t work, the guy was always flitting from one new Next Big Thing to the next. He was a hard worker but lacked direction, focus, or commitment to make any of his Big Plans actually pan out. His wife was supportive through all of it but ultimately got tired of being the only real adult in the relationship.
The marriage that worked seemed similar from the outside, at least in the beginning. He wanted to be in a specific industry but didn’t know what he wanted to do in that industry. She spent tons of money to get him training and networking and he took a LOT of very different jobs over the years. It took about 5 years before he got into a position that he was actually making a decent living, and it wasn’t doing something he was passionate about. I think one of the things that gave her comfort was that they had a timeline: if you don’t start drawing a salary in x years, you will find something else. It also helped that he was flexible enough to take a position that wasn’t ideal but that actually brought home steady pay. I don’t think either of them ended up particularly “happy” with his job, but they’re both very happy in their marriage.
SC
My husband is similar to your friend’s BF. He has a “niche” area he wants to work in. It’s inherently pretty unstable, and it’s extremely low-paying even when he has a job. He works really hard when he has a job, which shifts most of the housework and a lot of the childcare to me. And he’s not willing to look for more stable, higher paying work in a related field or a totally different one. We’ve been together for 13 years and married for 6. The main difference is that his job has not required me to move. It’s stressful, and I’ve complained about it on this s*te before.
I think your friend just needs to realize that it’s not going to change and decide for herself if it’s worth, as Senior Attorney would say, “the price of admission.” For me, it is. For her, and apparently a lot of other people, it might not be. I’d also consider it a big red flag if her BF was using some goal of stable employment as an excuse to delay commitment, if she wants commitment. He’s not going to change, he’s unlikely to find that job on her timeline, and he’d probably make up another excuse if he did.
NYNY
Fantastic oped in the NY Times about how bro culture on Wall Street keeps women down. It’s written by a man who didn’t speak up when he was a part of it, but I’m glad he’s speaking up now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/opinion/sunday/how-wall-street-bro-talk-keeps-women-down.html?ref=opinion
ICS
I read this yesterday too and loved it!
MJ
Wow. I just reposted this to FB. And below is what I posted before it. I have lived this. This is why I left banking and post-MBA, left a good job at a hedge fund. Thank you for sharing this.
—
So much this.
* For the times that my banking team ditched me between dinner and getting the check so they could go off to the strip club.
* For the times that I saw senior women hired to IB positions as window dressing, then summarily frozen out.
* For the times that my bosses took male analysts to meetings because a client expressed a preference that “women not run their numbers” and it was a downturn, so…what the client said, went.
* For the time that the Head of the the European IBD at Lehman came to an analyst meeting and told us to kiss clients and to dress sexy to keep them happy, pointing to a model-thin, gorgeous Italian (female) analyst that kept his French clients “happy.”
* For the time that my married boss hit on other analysts and then sent them enormous, embarrassing apology floral arrangements.
* For the time that my female analyst friend was pinned in a cab and assaulted by her boss on the way home from a team event.
* For the time that I had to hear my bosses on the trading floor talk about which sex positions their wives preferred.
* For the time that my boss asked a newly-married colleague when she was going to “bear her husband some children and quit already.”
* For the many, many times that my bosses took only male colleagues to sporting events.
If you want to know why I am an outspoken feminist and why I would advise my own daughter not to work on Wall Street, this is why.
San Jose
Oh. my. goodness. I am just about to leave for work and now I want to show again. This i s so disturbing for me. I work in a male-dominated law firm and now I”m imagining all the things they might be saying about me and the 3 other women I work with. Shudder.
anondater
I’ve realized after spending now 6 months single that, while I think of myself as a happy contented person, apparently I am way happier in a relationship than out of one. I hate this idea of myself as unfulfilled without a man (to sound dramatic about it).
I’ve tried to throw myself into hobbies and hanging out with friends. I’ve been going on lots of dates. Still kind of sad, and I hate thinking that I am going to go through a large part of my life feeling this way, since obviously there’s no guarantee if or when I will find someone. But what else can be done?
Anonymous
Girl it has been six months. You just keep living your life. You don’t do hobbies and dates for six months and magic happiness finds you. Keep working at it.
January
You make the best of the situation you’re in, I think. Lots of people — maybe almost everyone — are living lives that fall in some way short of their ideal. I don’t think it’s wrong or shameful to be sad that you don’t have a partner when you would like to have one, but you have to find a way to enjoy the moment you’re in, whether it lasts for a short time or for years.
(Also, personally, I am often unhappier when I am going on lots of dates and not finding my way into a relationship than I am just hanging out by myself. YMMV).
cbackson
Amen to all of this, especially the last part. The dating carousel can be kind of depressing and I so often feel like I’ve wasted precious free time. Which means I maybe need to screen better and go out with fewer people.
anondater
Yes!!! The lots of dates thing is making me feel worse than being single and not looking for sure.
Goatsgoatsgoats
+1. Most people spend most/all of their lives not in their dream job, not living in their dream house, not driving their dream car. I would try to look at dating as no different from these situations — focus on what you can enjoy about your current situation, then when it changes for the better, rejoice!
Aunt Jamesina
Not having a partner when you really want one is quite different from not living in your dream house or having your dream car. I think it’s more like not being able to have children when you really want them.
anon
+1,000
Anonymous
I think the underlying feeling here is that you love your life, but would/do love it more when you have a witness, a partner, someone to share and remember those great experiences with. That’s totally normal. Maybe cultivate friendships that can help fill this void — a friend who always goes to yoga with you, a friend who always goes to concerts with you, a work friend — so that you do have shared experiences and shared memories. I get it though. Being single is HARD. Dating is HARD. It’s similar to job hunting, except it’s your soul that’s being “advertised,” instead of a skill set.
anondater
Yes, thanks for this.
Pins and Needles
Paging MS pt – You responded to my post a few weeks ago about my pins and needles/tingling in my extremities. I visited the neuro yesterday and he said my symptoms are consistent with a small fiber neuropathy. Since I’ve had no functional deficits, only positive symptoms, no reason to think MS at this point. I’m scheduled for an EMG next month. Anyway, just wanted to thank you for your concern and would love to communicate off-line if you would be willing. Either way, thanks for your kind response – I have no one I can discuss this with and really appreciated it.
Anonymous
Not sure if this is for me – I responded to a couple of the pasts as the one with a family member with MS. . . let me know!
MS
I’m the regular commenter who went anon to say that I have MS and that it’s not the end of the world! I am glad to hear you are getting positive news. If you’d like to talk more, just post an anon email address and I’d be happy to email you!
Pins and Needles
Thank you — I will post an anon e-mail address tomorrow if you’ll please check back!
Pins and Needles
I’m at leeroyjenkins5652 at gmail dot com.
Emmabean
To the generous soul who offered to share her research on south austin daycares with me yesterday, I posted an email address late last night but am reposting here. Thank you again!
toms7899 at g mail dot com
Evodia
I posted this about a month ago, but didn’t get many responses so thought I would try once more. I’m wondering if anyone has recommendations for therapists in NYC, specifically who can address anxiety in high achieving women. I’m an academic researcher, and feel like I am constantly plagued with feelings of anxiety and guilt (about not working hard enough). Even in times like now when I know objectively that I am doing everything that is expected of me and that I expect of myself, and am frankly rocking it at my job, I’m still overwhelmed with feeling anxious and overwhelmed. I thought I would try the hive before reaching out to my PCP about recommendations, (I admit I’m pessimistic about this option since I only ever get about 3 minutes of face time with her). Any advice or ideas on where to look for potential therapists would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Nancy Raygun
I’m not in your area, but I’ve been seeing a therapist about similar issues for a while. I’d say, don’t beat around the bush about your primary concerns. Bring them up in your first meeting and see how the therapist responds. In an urban place, your concerns will be really common so I doubt you’ll have trouble finding someone with experience helping women like you. I’d also prefer to have a female therapist to talk to about these things. Don’t even bother with your PCP unless you want meds. Mine gives me very little facetime so I just go to her for prescriptions and injuries.
Anonymous
I liked Russell Saunders.
Peachy
Dr. Tanya Bannister. She’s great.
Cb
Asked earlier in the week about a long-distance job/marriage – thanks for great thoughts and tough questions.
I got some inside info from a friend who works for the organisation and ultimately, I think it’s not for me professionally or personally: tough personalities and unsociable hours, a location I never wanted to live in, and a desire to make/raise a baby in the very near future.
Hazel
I just realized one of my nieces is turning 2 today. (I have 9 nieces/nephews, so it’s hard keeping them all straight…) I’ll see her and her parents tomorrow, right before they get on a plane to Hong Kong for the next year. Any present ideas to keep a 2-year-old happy on a long plane flight, or in a tiny apartment? Her parents may appreciate a gift card (and/or Dramamine), but I’d like to get her something small.
Anon
sticker book and/or color wonder markers and paper.
Anonymous
+ 1 to the color wonder markers and booklet -these are genius markers that only work on special paper so the kid can color on the plane on the paper without getting marker all over the seat/tray table/armrest.
CPA Lady
Water Wow books? They have pictures that you “paint” with a pen filled with water that go back to white after they are dry, so you can paint them over and over. Not messy, small, reusable.
Anon at 10:28
Where do you buy the Water Wow books? I’m constantly buying the Crayola color wonder stuff for plane travel – I had no idea there was a reusable version!
CPA Lady
I have gotten them on amazon, but they are Melissa & Doug, so you might be able to find them at Target. I see a lot of Melissa & Doug stuff there.
Anonymous
These are AMAZING. My 2yo and 5yo both love them.
Hazel
Those look perfect! Thanks for the tip.
anonymous
Yes we get these on Amazon, and they have worked miracles for my kids between the ages of 2 – 5 yrs on long flights.
Solo spouse
To the posters thinking of opening up their own practice(s) in yesterday’s morning thread, I posted responses late yesterday. Not sure if you saw.
Buzzkill!
Hey guys, need help not sounding like an asshole. I have a friend who likes to drink a lot more than I do. That’s not a problem in itself, but she binge drinks absolutely every time we hang out no matter what we’re doing and tries to pressure me to drink more. Plus, she can be really negative. I’m trying to pull back on the amount of time we spend together, but she keeps inviting me to do major stuff with her like I’m her BFF (spend a week with her family, go on a trip for her birthday). I’m going to decline on an invitation to go to Vegas for her birthday since I know I’d spend the whole time looking after her and listening to her complaints. She’s going to whine and be offended that I don’t want to go and she’ll ask for an explanation but I want to be firm. I just don’t want to start an fight by yelling “You’re going to be a mess the whole time and it won’t be fun for me!” Any advice?
MJ
This may not be the right time, but you absolutely can have the “I don’t want to be your babysitter, I want to be your friend” talk with her. She may not realize that your drinking styles are different or that you don’t enjoy looking after her. It’s worth telling her that. You can say that you are in a different place than her party-wise without passing judgment (noting that “babysitter” connotes a lot of judgment!).
It’s not a-holish to ask her, in a non-judgmental way, if she would like to do more non-alcohol related activities with you. If she says, “No, you’re such a buzzkill…yadda yadda” well, then, you know the answer. If she says yes, then you have a friendship not based on her partying and you getting less messed up than her.
Advocating for what you need in a friendship is not rude. Even if the other person considers you close friends. The best way to be firm with someone is to state your position and stick to it. Your position can include or not include reasons. For the sake of your friendship, it might be good to say, “I feel we’re drifting apart a bit and this is why.”
Speak up.
Buzzkill!
Oh, MJ that is exactly what I needed to hear. I’ve been trying to find a time to have this conversation with her for a while, but I need to stop putting it off so I don’t just have an angry outburst. It makes me kind of sad that when I’ve suggested non-drinking activities she’s made it about drinking anyway. But you’re right that she probably doesn’t realize how much it affects me. It’s so easy to assume that these things are obvious to other people. But she seems to think everything’s fine. If I were in her shoes, I think I could appreciate the wakeup call, at least in the long run.
anonshmanon
I would actually go for saying that and just accept sounding like an a-hole. At least you’re not the person acting like one.
anonshmanon
this probably sounded harsh. What I meant was you can set boundaries, even with friends. When the immediate emotional response settles down, you have the chance of developing a friendship where both your needs are respected. This led to me being more invested in the friendship again, after I had already started to try and avoid hanging out because it was too draining.
Buzzkill!
Yeah, I know what you mean. A big part of me wants to be as clear as possible, even if it is harsh because I think my friend doesn’t get that it’s a real issue. Best case scenario, she’ll get the point that her behavior pushes people away and she’ll get some help dealing with it. Worst case scenario, I’ll have one less draining person in my life. I’m at least going to give her the chance to respect some boundaries.
CountC
Exactly! It doesn’t sound as though you are getting much out of this friendship at the moment and it’s okay for you to say what you want in a friendship (not to babysit a drunk person all the time). If she’s not interested in that variation of the friendship, that’s okay too, it just means that you all won’t have the type of friendship you once did. That may sting and be sad, but it’s okay too.
Frozen Peach
It sounds to me like she has the beginnings of a serious drinking problem. Always incorporating alcohol is a huge red flag. I’m not sure it’s your place to bring that up at this point, but it might be worth considering as you frame your response. It’s a lot easier to take a step back before something becomes a real issue than it is to recover once it has.
Buzzkill!
I definitely think it’s turning into a drinking problem. But she sees other people with worse problems and thinks she’s fine just because she’s not hungover every day. I’m beginning to notice a lot of people in my life with these issues and it’s just really hard to figure out when and how to say something to someone, especially knowing that no one can change until they really want to.
Anonymous
It sounds like the drinking is combined with a major insecurity issue. If you do talk with her about this, it is important that you understand that as a basis for the drinking and validate her as a person and a friend. Let her know that you care about her and who she is with or without alcohol–but that with alcohol, you are probably not going to hang out with her as much because that is a scene you are not as into anymore. Biking in the park–YES! Clubbing till dawn–Not so much…unless Calvin Harris is there.
Anon for This
Yeah, nip this one in the bud before it gets to be a gigantic snowballing problem. In law school, I waited to bring up the “Hey, it seems like you’re drinking a lot” thing to a few people until it was FAR beyond fixable- to the point I cut off all communications with two people because their drinking was so harmful to our friendship and I’d tried to approach them in a “Hey, I’ve noticed X way” and they went on the defense. I know people won’t get help until they want to, but there’s no reason to stick around if their choices are making you miserable. I should have done it a lot earlier- right when I noticed it was becoming an “Every time we hang out they’re drunk or get there very quickly” issue.
Anonymous
Tell her you party at a slower speed than she does and you don’t want to be a buzzkill on her super awesome Vegas trip. “I’m sure you’ll have a blast, but a weekend of partying in Vegas is just not my idea of a good time. I’d love to treat you to a mani/pedi [or lunch, or a yoga class, or whatever] before you go!”
Unexpected promotion
Reposting from yesterday as I posted too late in the day. Thanks for any advice!
My boss and his boss recently left the company (his boss found a new job, my boss quit because they didn’t give him the same money as his boss made). This made me the de facto expert and I was offered a significant promotion, so far verbal, which I agreed to. This is like a jump from middle manager to manager of the entire semi-autonomous program within the company. I’ve never rubbed elbows with big wigs and feeling a little lost. I’ve now been sent an Outlook invite to a meeting in another state and hotel info for next Tuesday. I assume this means I need to travel? There are only 5 other people in this meeting. What prep do I need to do? I am responsible for running the program including financials, payroll, AP/AR, client service, and day-to-day processes. I am not responsible for sales, but I know the goal of the company is to expand the program. Any tips in general on what to expect and how to behave? Thanks for any help!
MJ
In general, since you are new, I would ask whomever sent you the invite if there is an agenda.
If this is a mgmt offsite, I would expect that you should get some data, so that you can discuss your program with some certainty, not a lot of “I’m not sure, but I will look into that” type answers. I would want to understand where the program was the last time that program financials were done and have those financials printed (with ample copies for others, in case you need to discuss). I’d understand headcount and projecting hiring needs. I would understand what trends are affecting your division right now (good and bad) and understand how to “spin” the bad into an action plan. I would do some significant brainstorming about what your strategic goals for the division are, and have a few bullet talking points at the ready about what you are hoping to achieve in the near, medium and long term, even if that means you and your colleagues are supporting the sales functions. If you have time, I would try to meet with the Head of Sales before then and understand what his pain points are and if there’s anything that you and your team can do to support him or her and his team. I would do some reading regarding how your org fits in to the overall business (what % of sales, profits, projected growth, etc.), so you are not discussing your program in a vacuum, but are able to tie it to the organization as a whole.
I would bring business clothes that are acceptable for daytime meetings (keeping in mind that this may be your first exposure to bigwigs in a significant way, so I ‘d want to look sharp sartorially). I would also have some dress-up/dress-down dresses that are suitable for dinner. I would also bring a casual outfit that’s suitable for, say, golf or an outdoor drinks party. I would also bring a wrap because conference room AC can be the worst if you are stuck in it for days at a time.
Good luck! This is your time to shine. Overprepare. It can’t hurt.
Unexpected promotion
This is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much.
elly
Check if something specific is expected from you and get prepped on that. If not, best to think of this out-of-town meeting as an opportunity to meet peers and partners and listen more than you speak. Aim to come away with having put faces to names, with understanding more how their work fits into yours, everyone’s various priorities etc, and most importantly, with the ability to get in touch easily and informally with your new out-of-town partners/ counterparties if you need their input or help later on.
Oh and jeez, don’t dream up strategic goals on your own between now and Tuesday in order to talk them up at a meeting whose agenda you are not clear about.
MJ
I didn’t say she should present all this! Just that she should have though of it in case it comes up! Looking prepared on the firm impression that people have of you is very important. Otherwise, totally agree!
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Hello! Any Chicago savvy hive members? I hear it’s possible to fly to Chicago and then take a train to Lake Forest. Which Chicago airport do I fly into? And how do I book tickets on this train? And can I just take Uber to get from place to place in Chicago? it looks like parking is incredibly expensive in downtown Chicago. TIA! And any other tips on great things to do in Chicago are warmly welcome!
E
You can take the Metra (commuter train) up to Lake Forest from the Ogilvie Transportation Center – as far as the airports go, it’s probably a wash distance and time-wise. Midway is almost exclusively Southwest whereas O’Hare has more international flights and other domestic carriers. Yes, you can Uber everywhere in Chicago (including in from the airport), but the city is geographically very very large so it may be expensive depending on where you’re going in the city. Restaurant recommendations: Au Cheval, the Publican, Little Goat, Big Star, Quartino, Balena. Feel free to post any other questions you may have!
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Thank you! That’s very helpful.
Anonymous
Fly into either airport, get yourself downtown, then get on the Metra (commuter rail line). There are two Metra stations in downtown Chicago, Union and Ogilvie. Not sure whether the train that goes to Lake Forest leaves from Union or Ogilvie, but you can find that info and the schedule on Metra’s website. You can just buy the ticket on the train or at the station, no need to book in advance. It’ll only be a few bucks.
Re: Getting around while you are in town: It totally depends where you need to go. Chicago is a physically large city–public transit is pretty good but it can take you a while to get from A to B, depending. If you’re just staying close to downtown mostly, no need to even worry about Uber, cabs are plentiful and public transit is good. If you give more details about the neighborhoods you’re thinking of, I can be more helpful.
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Thank you! That helps!
arya
hmmm you could just uber from ohare straight to lake forest (i think its ~20 miles so it’s not a ridiculous amount to pay for an uber). you can do it by public transportation but it would probably take you at least 1.5 hours if not more… you would take the blue line from ohare to union station downtown and then the metra north line to fox lake and get off at lake forest. if it’s during the week the trains run pretty frequently. you can buy tickets at the station for both the cta and metra from machines. i would just uber or walk (it’s beautiful in the summer) or take the cta.
as far as things to do – there’s a lot! what do you like? usually when i have friends visit i do the standard architecture boat cruise, museum of some sort (field, science and industry, aquarium, planetarium are all on one big street), art institute. there’s great pizza of course (lou malnati’s or pequod are my favs)
A
Ditto on this — unless you have a lot more time than money, I’d just travel from O’Hare to Lake Forest. Both airports are outside of downtown (by 45 mins or so), and the train station you’d need to get to is downtown, so you’re looking at a lonngggg trip to get to Lake Forest.
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Uber straight to LF….got it! Thx!
Aunt Jamesina
O’Hare is far closer to Lake Forest than Midway. It would be hard to get direct transit from O’Hare to Lake Forest, but theoretically you could take the Blue Line from O’Hare to downtown and catch the Metra. If you flew into Midway, you could do the same, but take the Orange Line downtown. There are two Metra lines in Lake Forest that go to two separate stations– the train that departs from Ogilvie arrives at the east Lake Forest station near Lake Forest’s downtown. The one that leaves from Union Station goes to the west station. You can buy Metra tickets at Union or Ogilvie or on board the train with cash (IIRC, tickets on board are more expensive if the ticket windows in the station are open).
Moonstone
This info is better than mine — I didn’t know both of those lines had Lake Forest stations.
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Thank you. Here in Orlando you have to buy train tix before you board. Good to know!
Moonstone
You can take a Metra train to Lake Forest. It’s a commuter train that originates downtown at Union Station. You want the Milwaukee District NORTH line. Here’s the Metra site for details:
https://metrarail.com/maps-schedules/train-lines/MD-N/stations
Are you flying into O’Hare or Midway? Are you trying to go straight to Lake Forest?
Aunt Jamesina
There are two lines that go to LF, MD-N that you mention (which goes to the west LF train station), and the Union Pacific North line that goes to the east LF station that’s located in LF’s downtown. See my above comment.
ORD
You buy train tickets at the train station, or on the train itself from the conductor, for an extra fee. It’s easy to get around Chicago — I assume you’re staying in a hotel in the city?
ORD
Re: things to do, I was just exploring Chicago’s new River Walk last weekend — part of it is still being built. It’s really nice. You go down the steps anywhere along Wacker on the south side of the river. There is kayaking, watching the boats, restaurants, etc. A lovely find. I had relatives visiting — we started at the Art Institute, crossed the 2nd floor bridge into Millenium Park, then walked up to the river.
J
O’Hare is way closer – and I wouldn’t take the train, just take an uber X – much more convenient and not that expensive.
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Thank you all so much! Can’t wait to get to your beautiful and friendly city!
Anon
Posted yesterday and a few other commenters were searching for these too.
Anyone have any recommendations for a burgundy/wine colored colored wedge? I have a preference for an almond or round toe and bonus points if it’s suede. I had a pair a few years ago like this and wore them to death. Got rid of them last fall and am missing that workhorse in my wardrobe!
Anon
I have a pair of Cole Haans that fit this description. Maybe do a google.
Tinnitus
I started having tinnitus at the end of the year. My ENT said its due to stress of planning my wedding, moving to another state, and looking for a new job, and that once I am less stressed it will clear up. He prescribed me Xanax which I only took once as it made me too sleepy.
Has anyone else in the hive experience stress induced tinnitus? Did it clear up once some of the stress was gone?
anonshmanon
wow. I have no real advice, but what you’ve got going on would for sure stress me out! I guess I would turn to yoga/meditation for relief.
yes
Bad ENT.
Tinnitus isn’t caused by stress and shouldn’t be treated with Xanax.
Tinnitus isn’t usually a sign of anything serious, is common with aging and typical age associated hearing loss, and it is much much more noticeable when you are tired.
Sleep, work on stress reduction, clean out your ears is you tend to build up wax (did ENT do this, and check your hearing with audio gram?) and consider nasal sprays/allergy treatments if needed. I’m always congested when my allergies are bad which makes my hearing worse, which makes tinnitus more noticeable.
Bad ENT….
Anonymous
I definitely have stress-induced tinnitus. . . your ears have nerves like any other part of your body and stress/anxiety can impact how your nerves behave.
Anony2
Tinnitus is absolutely influenced/exacerbated by stress. I’m a health psychologist and I run several stress management groups for individuals with tinnitus.
Tinnitus
Where are you located?
Anony2
I work for the VA, tinnitus is super common with our veterans. If you want to try some stuff on your own, there are lots of good workbooks on Amazon with applied stress management techniques. I also recommend mindfulness meditation for general stress management! Do make sure you get a second opinion from another ENT or audiologist.
Anonymous
It can be associated with TMJ, so it’s possible that the op has started clenching her jaw or tensing up due to stress. If that is the case, massage might help a little.
Anonymous
As a fellow tinnitus sufferer, commiseration. My research indicates that there’s isn’t a scientifically proven basis for tinnitus or a proven treatment/cure. Mine is a result of hearing loss, middle ear disease, and several resulting surgeries. I agree that there’s no reason to take the Xanax. I manage mine by adding background noise (music, radio) as that distracts me from the tone and generally dissociating from the noise helps. Once I start hyper-focusing on it, it’s much more noticeable. For example, just now I’m realizing that it’s happening right now, and likely has been for several hours. It doesn’t cause much anxiety for me these days. I’ve had it long enough that it’s part of the background noise of my life; you may find that, in time, yours will become the same. You might consider a second ENT opinion if it continues to bother you.
Anon4This
Yes. I had a stress-induced episode of vertigo coupled with tinnitus in one ear (it was more like pulsing where I could hear my heart beat vs. ringing). Had several doctor’s appointments (GP & ENT), audio testing, neuro testing, MRI. Nothing wrong with me. It went away after several weeks (months?). No problem with it since.
Social Justice
I feel really discouraged by a lot of the stuff in the news lately (the report on the treatment of Mexican women by government officials, mass shootings, race issues. etc.). I feel like I should be doing something to work for change but am at a loss of what that something is. I have a full time job, several pets, and a new baby, so it’s not like I’ve got a ton of free time. I do have a JD, though, so I feel like I am in a better position than a lot of people to effectuate legal change, I just have no idea how to go about doing that. Is throwing money at the problem the solution at this stage of my life? Anyone have a great organization they volunteer with they can recommend?
Wildkitten
Where are you located?
Wildkitten
I like DCVLP in DC – you help victims of DV get restraining orders. Other cities and other issue areas have good stuff too if you have a location or topic you prefer.
Anon
I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know exactly how this works, but what about pro bono work? It seems like it may be more time consuming than you’re ready for, but is that an option?
Social Justice
I did quite a bit of pro bono work before and found it incredibly discouraging. A disturbingly high proportion of the cases were helping men get out of paying child support, and not for valid reasons.
Anon for this
I unfortunately agree for the most part. It’s disheartening. The one area I’ve found great success in is working with the immigrant populations regarding immigration issues.
Bewitched
Whaaaatt??????? I am on the board of a pro bono organization and approximately zero of our cases are helping men get out of paying child support. I don’t think you are working with the best organization if that’s their caseload. Our caseload includes pro bono divorces (many for DV), unemployment insurance hearings, bankruptcy/foreclosure, wills, health care proxies and standby guardianships for single parents with terminal illnesses, Habitat for Humanity closings, relief from civil disabilities (allowing individuals with criminal convictions to obtain employment), name changes (for transgendered persons or minors with incorrect birth certificates), work with veterans and plenty of other feel good work for the poor and working poor. I want to correct the impression that pro bono is discouraging, disheartening and/or not important!!!
anonymous
I’m not a lawyer so genuinely asking – don’t you get to choose your own pro-bono cases? Why can’t you turn down the ones you don’t agree with?
anon in SV
There are so. very. many. nonprofits looking for pro bono assistance. Many are very specifically targeted, so you could choose a nonprofit that has nothing to do with child support.
Consider juvenile justice, which helps kids expelled from school get back into school. It should be no surprise at all that kids expelled from school are most likely to be children of color, especially black boys, and that many of them are being expelled for things white students aren’t expelled for, or are misbehaving due to difficult environments at home and/or in their community. Kicking kids out of school isn’t going to help them have a brighter future.
Consider DV clinics that help domestic violence victims/survivors get restraining orders against their abusers.
Consider u-visa work that helps noncitizen immigrants who are victims of crimes committed by citizens gain documented status in exchange for their cooperation with law enforcement in prosecuting the crime. People, especially undocumented women of color, are often stuck in terrible situations where their abusers are their green card sponsors and threaten to withdraw sponsorship or report the victims to ICE if the victims leave the abusers.
Consider fair housing work that prevents poor people who are housed but are one step from homelessness from getting kicked out of their homes for illegal reasons, or live in putrid molding homes without running water or being forced to pay illegal and massive rent increases because their landlords know the residents literally have no place else to go.
Consider assisting veterans in fighting against the VA for the benefits due to them due to injuries they sustained while serving.
Many options!
Anonymous
I take the view that I can try to help with either time or money. I don’t have a lot of either right now (young family and busy job). A couple things I do are:
1. Charitable donations to 1 or 2 organizations – regular larger donations help charities plan better and are more effective than smaller donations to multiple organizations. Still do some smaller donations from time to time- Sending $50 to the coordinator of a small pro-choice protest to buy coffee/snacks for protesters who can make it when I have to work.
2. Donate items to domestic violence shelters – this is where all my used baby stuff that’s still in great condition goes. It’s often not just women fleeing domestic violence, many shelters house children as well.
3. In the small amount of time I do have, I try to contribute to the conversation on this issues – speaking up when family members say ignorant things, inking to a post that explains why #allivesmatter is true but not relevant or helpful; posting information on where to find legal info or pro bono services in a refugee support group on facebook. Yes, social media won’t solve the world’s problems but it does bring attention to issues.
I wish I could figure out how to do more, but I’m doing the best I can with my current family/work situation.
PEN
I am an attorney and my career has always been in social justice work. While pro bono help is amazing and wonderful, for a nonprofit legal advocacy organization, nothing beats donations. These organizations are often in dire financial need. If you have money to give, then give it. Every penny counts. Usually if you donate directly to the organization (as in, not through an online portal), the organization will get 100% of the money, so that is always better. Get your friends to join you. If you plus 4 of your friends all donate $100, that could cover the cost of the attorneys’ yearly licensing fees for a nonprofit legal advocacy organization.
yes
Fly into Ohare airport. Get train tix locally when arrive. Ask for directions at info booth. Airport shuttle to blue line train to metra train line. 1.5-2hrs.
Look at Google maps.
It’s a longish commute from Lake Forest to downtown Chicago. Train will work, but plan with train schedules. Downtown, it is very convenient to take the local trains and buses and uber and taxis.
Chicago essentials… Boat tour sponsored by the Architectural society downtown. Visiting Millenium park. Checking which outdoor festivals (food/concerts etc..) are going on while you are there. Many are free and great.
Chicago to Lake Forest?
Thank you!