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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Collared Cardigan

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A woman wearing a brown v-neck button jacket and denim pants with belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

The moment I see the first Back to School commercial each summer, I’ve got one thing on my mind: Sweater Weather!

This collared cardigan from Maeve looks like a perfect topper for the first time it really starts feeling like fall. Pair it with some wide-leg trousers and lug-sole loafers for an autumnal, collegiate look. 

The cardigan is $128 at Anthropologie and comes in sizes XS-XL. It's also available in wine.

Sales of note for 1/22/25:

  • Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
  • AllSaints – Clearance event, now up to 70% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
  • Ann Taylor – All sale dresses $40 (ends 1/23)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything
  • Boden – Clearance, up to 60% off!
  • DeMellier – Final reductions now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
  • Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; extra 50% off all clearance, plus ELOQUII X kate spade new york collab just dropped
  • Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off; new markdowns just added
  • J.Crew – Up to 40% off select styles; up to 50% off cashmere
  • J.Crew Factory – End of season sale, extra 60-70% off clearance, online only
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – extra 50% off

323 Comments

    1. It’s horrible but I love it. It’s my color, style, and even though I hate boob pockets, this one isn’t making me roll my eyes.

      1. same – this reminds me of a Delia’s top. Pair with low-rise cargo pants and a statement belt and you’ve got a aWeSOme look for 1996.

        1. I’m pretty sure I wore a ribbed version of this with super low rise flares for the start of 10th or 11th grade back in 97/98. And those Candy’s wooden mules that were everywhere. I guess the 90s revival really is in full swing!

          2. to 10:40 – if you weren’t wearing your ugly platform candies mules with your sky blue Urban Outfitters nail polish in 1999, were you even living?

          3. I think she’s referencing that the 90’s Candies trend was in fact a revival itself. Let’s hope for all our sakes it stays firmly in the 1900s :)

          4. Weird – I was replying something totally different and it copied the other post. Was pointing out that the Candies trend originated in the 70s so it was bad on two counts when I wore it.

          5. No definitely Candies on the 90s as advertised by what’s her face on the toilet – the one who was on Remote Control and then became anti-vaxx

          6. I had a pair of blue suede foot strap and otherwise real wood high heel Candie’s mules in 1980. I would absolutely kill to have them now. (My mother cleaned out her attic without saying “come get your stuff”.)

    4. And it looks like they are not buttons, but snaps, so there is no way to change these in any way.

    5. Reminds me of some hideous synthetic cardigan-like tops my mom used to wear on occasion in the 1970’s.

  2. Can we talk about Kamala Harris’ Irene Neuwirth Pearl station necklace? I love it! Are there any similar but slightly more affordable versions out there? So far I’m mostly just seeing cheap copies on Etsy, but I would be willing to spend up to 2500 or so for a decent single strand version. My work style is similar to hers and I think it looks great with blazer and plain shell combo she appears in regularly.

    1. I’ve always loved her necklaces and this one is a standout. I’ve been looking for a similar one on Etsy for a long time and they don’t really exist at a reasonable price point. I love it though and am interested to see what responses come back. I love the strong presence of the gold that usually is minimized in pearl station necklaces.

      1. Oops! I should have also added I want white gold, not yellow. I did find a Mikimoto single strand one that is similar, but not quite it. David Yurman also has one, but it has a diamond ball mixed in instead of one of the pearls and that weirds me out.

    2. I actually don’t like the super shiny gold and have always liked the Pearls by the Yard version at Tiffany – $800 for the simpler version.

      2. I’d second pearls by the yard from TIffany. Otherwise Gump’s, Pearl Paradise, or Kojima Pearl would be my pick. Kojima Pearl is delightful to work with and they do custom work!

      3. I saw this but the pearls look more ovular and much, much smaller than Kamala’s. Does anyone have this Tiffany necklace and can speak to it? I am looking for something that will be a statement piece.

        1. I have Tiffany’s Pearls from the early 2000’s that are fantastic quality. Unfortunately I simply can’t justify the Tiffany markup for pearls (which I adore) so I usually buy either straight from a dealer or through some place like Kojima or Pearl Paradise. If you live by a city with a major jewelry discount a jeweler with a bench should be able to source and create something like this for you easily and allow you to pick out the pearl size.

          2. Pearl Paradise is a reputable, reliable company. I don’t find their offerings as exciting as Kojima’s but they’re a solid choice. Sarah from Kojima just did a live sale at Pearl Paradise recently.

        2. I have Pearls by the Yard from 15ish years ago and they have worn beautifully. What I really like about Tiffany chains is how subtle they are; at other jewelers I’ve struggled finding a chain that’s equally thin, sturdy, and not at all “shiny.”

          1. This is useful information. The buyer should also be aware of whether this is the right look for their frame. Some people cannot pull off thin chains and need a more substantial gold/silver weight for their accessories. I’ve been burned by trying to do a pearl by the yard type necklace and it ended up looking silly and cheap on me because it’s too thin/dainty, but other people look polished in the same type of necklace.

          2. Thanks for pointing this out. I am thin and have narrow shoulders so typically do better in dainty jewelry.

    5. Nordstrom sells a similar necklace by Mikimoto for about 2,900. I have a timeless Mikimoto pear strand necklace that I love!

  3. What is a quick trip for a Labor Day weekend family trip (teens)? Something not overrun and still book-able? IDK if Lake Lure is good for this or Folly Beach. Newish to Charlotte and am too late for planning this. School will have started so we can’t extend the weekend any.

    2. Time to pull up Google Flights and just browse around the map? CLT is such a hub that you can get a lot of places nonstop.

      A lot of Charlotte families I know go for mountain stays.

    3. Lake Lure could be good—not sure what the rental situation is like at this point though, it may be slim pickings. If you haven’t been to LL before, it’s a teeny tiny town so there are activities but they’re spread out over a large area. Some of the resorts may have Labor Day activities too. I’m not sure when the town beach closes, it may be that weekend so something to check if you’re wanting beach time.

    4. Probably sold out, but you could check out VRBO rentals at Keowee Key on Lake Keowee in South Carolina, about a 2-3 hour drive from Charlotte, I believe. Enjoy!

    5. I’m in the Triangle so lots of folks around here have beach houses, plus the good places tend to book out early. I love Folly but it may be expensive LDW. A few ideas:

      One of the lakes like Norman or Gaston
      Emerald Isle (this is now my favorite NC beach)
      Topsail
      Oak Island
      Wilmington area beaches – Wrightsville, Carolina, Kure
      Charleston area – Folly, Isle of Palms, Kiawah

      1. OP could post on her local next-door and say anyone have last-minute availability at their beach rental for Labor Day weekend? It wouldn’t hurt to try.

  4. I just got some gorgeous Office of Angela Scott loafers on Poshmark. They are so beautiful, but every few steps they make a farting sound. Ugh! I can’t return them. Any tips for how to prevent?

    1. Are you wearing them with trouser socks/stockings? There are some really cute ones from Sock Candy that I enjoy wearing. That usually takes care of it for me.

      1. Thanks! I’ll try that. The shoes are a walnut brown and I want to wear them with a navy blue suit. Would you do either brown or navy trouser socks?

        2. I’d either go with a fishnet trouser sock or a fun printed one but navy is probably the more formal option.

    2. If it is your foot rubbing against the shoe, socks should solve it. If it is an accessible part of the shoe rubbing against itself, something like moleskin on the friction spots could help. If it is like my most comfortable pair of lug sole oxfords circa 2000 and the fart sound is coming from within the sole itself, you could see if a cobbler can fix it, otherwise I think you either have to embrace the fart or bid the shoes farewell.

    3. Whenever I’ve had shoes that did that I could make the farting sound stop by lifting up the insole and putting some Dr. Scholl’s foot powder between the insole and the body of the shoe. However, those shoes are so expensive, I feel like you should just call them and not have to DIY a solution.

  5. Please give me your best can’t-miss suggestions for London? One of my best friends and I are going for the Taylor Swift concert. We’ll have three days, with one day mostly devoted to the concert, but neither of us have ever really spent any time in London and we’re a little overwhelmed by all the things we could do…

    1. Go shopping at Liberty of London, and then have lunch at Dishoom. If you can’t tour Buckingham Palace, tour Apsely House instead. It belongs to the Dukes of Wellington and was done up by the same decorator, so you’ll get your fill of gold fancy interiors. Look up and then walk the standard processional route from Buckingham Palace down the Mall, through Admiralty Arch and right to go down Whitehall to Westminster Abbey. The next time you see the route on TV it will be more fun to watch!

      1. +1 to this generally and +1000 to Dishoom, which takes lunch res for any size party (not true for dinner) and for which I would fly back just to eat there repeatedly.

    2. I’d pick one museum (two max if you’re super speedy – the V&A is across from the science & history museums which are great), take a taxi around the downtown areas or a speedboat on the Thames (A pick up by Kensington Palace going to the Tower of London will take you past most of the highlights in a car – ask them to take the scenic route), have tea at the Shard (great view and less annoying than the Eye imho), and pick either Harrods or Liberty of London to walk through. Liberty is right by Carnaby street, Harrods is right by Kensington Park if you want to wander after.

      1. I’d definitely pick the V&A over the British museum. I’ve been to both twice and the British Museum is a madhouse all the time. Plus the Victoria and Albert has a great jewelry section if that’s your thing.

        1. Yep, +1 for Victoria and Albert. If you’re into art, the Tate Modern is super cool and depending on when you’re there you can combine with a breakfast visit to Borough Market — just eat your way through!

    3. Depending on your interests – with only 2 non-concert days, I would do a Buckingham Palace tour then picnic lunch in Hyde Park, and go to a show in the West End one evening. Then art gallery or museum (depending on your interests) and dinner in a pub on the other day

      We were in London in June and actually used the regular city buses to get around. Great way to see the city a bit and g00gle maps makes it easy to see how to get from point A to point B with the public transport.

    5. Following with great interest; going there for a conference in Sept. and will have some free time.
      I loved learning about Dishoom; thank you!
      If you had, say, a couple of hours and a budget of about 20 pounds, what’s a “typically London” thing to do? Like maybe people watch at a park? A market?
      Thanks for the tips so far!

    6. I’ve been to London many, many times, and I just returned from London, so hopefully some of these suggestions may help. I want to say that I am an art lover, so my suggestions lean towards museums. If I only had a short time, I would visit the V &A and have lunch or tea in their wonderful historic cafe rooms or sit in the V &A courtyard. then, from the v and a, either walk through Hyde park for several kilometres, and then head towards Oxford street, and then to Liberty via regent street. I love the haberdashery section for fabrics, small gifts, scarves, etc. I don’t always buy, but it’s fun to browse.
      I would then head to the nationally gallery of art, and then maybe walk to the portrait gallery, and stop at their cafe, or visit the cafe in the crypt across the street and underground for tea. You can then wander around convent garden, or nearby for shopping…and there is a dishoom nearby for dinner. Sadly, I didn’t have reservations, and couldn’t wait in line, so I had to give it miss, but I ate at other wonderful places— Mowgli was delicious. This may sound like a lot, but I have done all of this is one day, or conversely, I’ve spend whole days at just one of these museums/ galleries.

      Another walk that is wonderful is walking across the millennium bridge towards the Globe theater, and then continue walking to the Tate modern for a peek, and maybe their cafe for a calm stop ( the one on the ground floor is lovely, as well as the top floor one)
      Then walk from the Tate modern towards borough market nearby where there is tons of food and shopping to taste and view. After sampling or simply exploring the market, the Thames Uber boats or clippers can take you to another pier. I recommend Battersea power station by boat, which has a shopping and food hall ( and also a dishoom). As an art lover, I would then take the boat to the Tate Britain, and then return. I love walking in London and most of my routes involve walking for hours and exploring art.

    7. Check out Rick Steves’ Audio Europe app for free walking tours. It’s a great way to get oriented to a new city.

    8. London is one of my favorite cities in the world. And there are so many experiences you could have depending on the kind of interests you have. I personally would go to some show because London has the best theater scene and it is largely more affordable than seeing something on Broadway. I echo eating Indian whether that is Dishoom or any of the hundreds of other places in the city. I would also go to a pub and have lunch or Sunday roast if you can get in. Afternoon tea is great if you absolutely love the idea of cucumber sandwiches and lots of pastries but you can also have tea and scones in your neighborhood. If you want to go shopping, think about what kind of shopper you are. There is everything from Selfridge’s to Mark and Spencer to Convent Garden to Camden and Portobello Road.

  6. Hoping to crowd source the answer to a question I’ve been curious about for a while but don’t have any particular need to research myself, and don’t easily see the answer online. In my area of the law–employment law–some lawyers have a multistate practice – i.e., if they’re licensed in Florida, some of their Florida clients also have locations in other states, and they advise on those employees too, write policies, contracts, etc. that apply to those employees. I know to litigate, they would need to be admitted pro hac and use local counsel, but are the transactional aspects of the practice allowed? On the one hand, they’re advising on the laws of another state, but on the other hand, they’re doing it for a client in their own state. I’m just curious how this works. I’m thinking of small/medium firm lawyers who don’t work for a big firm, where there’s always someone in every state.

    1. I worked as a GC for a small transportation company that did business in about half the states in the country.

      We just used outside counsel if there were nuances of state law at play, or we hired people in California (which has very nuanced and strict employment laws) through agencies.

    2. I can’t speak for transactional employment law, but for transactional real estate and M&A if you’re at a firm the general understanding is that you just need to be licensed in the state that you are physically located in and if you’re in-house, you just have to be licensed somewhere. For example, if you’re doing leasing or land acquisitions for McDonalds, those happen all across the country, and you don’t need to be licensed in every state that you negotiate a lease in.

    3. I’m also curious about how this works on the technical level.

      My experience is that it’s normal for, say a California big law employment associate to be asked to draft something like a harmonized sick leave policy for a company that has employees in multiple states. The California locations are likely to have the most complex restrictions and it isn’t practical to run every employment policy by attorneys in 20 states. They’d likely only call their colleague in another state if they encountered something particularly complex.

      Even companies that are willing to pay big law rates don’t want to pay for 20 lawyers to consult on a sick leave policy unless they really have to (such as when it’s not multiple states, but multiple countries, involved).

      1. Ok, so the comment above had me realizing that in-house counsel are of course advising on all manners of multi state issues as well, so I had a new search term. I see now that there’s an ABA model rule (5.5) which covers multijurisdictional practice, and I think the section that says you can practice in another jurisdiction when the issues arise out of your regular practice is applicable here. In other words, if I am advising my Florida client, and they happen to have an issue in Illinois that arises from the work I do, so long as IL has a rule similar to the model rule, I am good. But this is just me trying to sort it all out.

  7. Another travel question! I’m recently back from our annual trip, and dreaming about the next one. My husband and I love high adventure, outdoor trips to cooler, rocky climates to escape the muggy humidity of DC, and love being on water. Our most favorite trips were the Norwegian fjords + Lofoten Islands, Vancouver Island, the outskirts of Banff, and Iceland. We don’t love crowds, we usually have at least one stay in a-typical lodging that is (1) less expensive than a resort and (2) becomes the most memorable part of the trip (an igloo, a yurt, a hike in backcountry lodge, driving a camper van, etc.).

    So, where to next? Tell me about your favorite adventure travels. We typically DIY these trips, and do not have the budget for the Galapagos or Antarctica (though high on our bucket list). We are leaving from DC, so a good choice of flights, and will have two weeks next July to travel. I’m not sure if this is enough time for New Zealand (and frankly haven’t been motivated to go as it seems like airfare will eat a bunch of our budget and time).

      1. :) LOL – husband and I slog through our government jobs year round, dreaming of our July escape. It’s honestly my favorite time of year.

    3. Gros Morne National Park/Newfoundland. Boat tour to see the fjords, hike Gros Morne mountain or back country hiking in the Long Range Mountains. Great kayaking options as well. You can fly in/out of St. John’s and visit the east coast of the island as well or into Deer Lake on the West Coast.

      Sandbanks Provincial Park on the South Coast is very beautiful if you like kayaking and beaches.

      1. Ohhhhh this wasn’t on my radar! Thank you for alerting me to it. Looking into it now!!

        1. Newfoundland is incredible – as you’ve previously seen, Canada is a great place for remote/rugged traveling!

          1. Honestly, of all the places we have been in the world, a backcountry hike-in lodge in British Columbia remains our most favorite experience we’ve ever had. Epic, unbelievable hikes near high alpine lakes, coming back and eating gourmet dinners by candlelight in the communal lodge, and feeling like you are one million miles away from civilization. I feel like I’ve been chasing that high for 7 years now :)

          3. I just realized the lodge is actually in Alberta (we flew into Vancouver, then drove to Alberta, so I conflate BC and Alberta), but Skoki Lodge. One of these years, I’d like to try Nuk Tessli.

    4. Two weeks is enough for NZ and July is a good time to go. I’d put that high on the list if you think you can make the budget work.

      I’d also think about Patagonia.

      1. Sigh. We had picked Patagonia as our next big trip, but immediately figured out that all the things we wanted to do are closed in July (bc it is deep winter there). Maybe someday we’ll flip and do our trip in December, but right now, from a budgeting standpoint, we have to spread out the trips to be every other year in July.

        1. Ah that’s too bad. I know someone who went in July and her photos were spectacular but it’s possible she didn’t get to do the back country stuff.

    5. What about the Azores? I went pre-COVID and it was one of my favorite trips. Plenty of hiking and outdoorsy things to do, and cost is reasonable.

      1. Any specific lodging recommendations to share with the Azores? This is also high on the list!

        1. We stayed at the Grand Hotel Açores Atlântico on Sao Miguel, and it was lovely. Sadly, we didn’t get the chance to visit other islands.

      2. Counterpoint: I was really underwhelmed by the hiking in the Azores. I liked the food and the whale watching but I wouldn’t go there if hiking is a priority. Continental European mountains (Alps, Dolomites, etc) are much better.

    6. Nova Scotia (you can go out on the bay of Fundy during the dramatic tide change) + somewhere else in eastern Canada or Maine?

      Hiking in Austria or Switzerland or northern Italy (Dolomites)?

      1. +1 to Switzerland/Austria. A friend just did a 10 day trip through Swiss Alps and it looked amazing. I’ve heard similarly good things about the Austrian Alps (and it’s cheaper as well).

      2. I *love* these suggestions — I almost put that I had a Swiss Alps trip mapped out, but we scraped it bc I watched the flights for like six months and the prices were just consistently insane.

        I’ve been low key collecting info about huts I want to try in the Dolomites, and ironically, my husband and I were just thinking about Austria this morning because we thought it might be more reasonable than Switzerland.

        1. Tip for Europe – watch for fares to any city that has good connections to where you want to go, as flight prices once you’re over there (or trains, even better) are often a lot cheaper than booking the whole thing via US carrier.

        2. For that area, Munich is usually cheaper to fly into/out of compared to Zurich but train connections are better to Zurich.

          July is increasingly hot in the Alps. Aim for early July to be more economical on flights and cooler. Schools close end of the first week of July so last week of June and first week of July are generally less pricey.

        3. Switzerland is very very expensive to fly to. Look into flying into Milan and either hiking in northern Italy or taking a train to Switzerland. It’s close.

        4. We stayed in Bolzano one year and the Dolomites were so, so spectacular. We didn’t do any major walking – just wandered round, took the funiculars up and walked down, cycled everywhere but it was gorgeous.

        5. Thank you all for these flight tips — with our jobs, we are locked into dates, but not location, so this is hugely helpful to help me find cheaper airfare. Two years ago, I was tracking Geneva flights only, which honestly never really went down. Looking at my saved travel map, it looks like we could fly into Munich or Milan (if those are cheaper), and still dip into the Dolomites or Austrian Alps via train or potentially local airlines. Thank you all for these suggestions!!

          2. If you have time and don’t mind a detour, considering taking Turkish Airlines through Istanbul. It’s a bit out of the way to fly to Europe via Turkey but Turkish Airlines is usually considerably cheaper than the big US and Euro airlines and is a nice airline with good food and an excellent safety record. And you can layover in Istanbul for a night or two for free, which is really cool (although not particularly outdoorsy).

        6. Another +1 for Swiss Alps. We flew into Zurich and took trains everywhere and ended up in Milan. You could also do the reverse.

        7. The fights have been insane because of the Olympics, FYI. Should be better next year.

          1. Switzerland is *always* pricey. Not OP but in 2023 we gave up on a planned Switzerland trip and went to Iceland instead because economy fights to Switzerland were nearly $2k per person and we got the tickets to Iceland for $600. Iceland is admittedly cheaper than continental Europe, but I’ve never paid $2k for an economy ticket to any major Euro city, and we go to Europe a lot.

    7. I find that people always say big chunks of time “aren’t enough” for New Zealand and then they never go. It’s enough and you will have an amazing time.

      1. I’m appreciating the notes about this being enough time for NZ — I think it has reached a level in my brain where it just feels like a trip that is impossible to tackle. Once Google flights unlocks flights for 2025, I might set a price alert and just see if we can snag tickets during a random dip in cost.

    8. I love to travel like you and usually do a hiking trip to a national park. Can get crowded in July, but it sounds like you’re going to be going off the beaten path and interested in really getting out into the park where others may not venture.

      My favorite favorite favorite park is Grand Tetons. I stayed in a cabin in Victor when I was there (avoid Jackson to avoid crowds). I recommend skipping Yellowstone but maybe add on a national forest in area.

      Also loved Capitol Reef for a less crowded NP

      1. Great suggestions, along with the Maine Allagash river trip below (one of my absolute favorite places, and a guided camping river trip is high on the list if you’d be willing to share your outfitter). We go abroad every other year, so next July we are hoping (but not locked into) trying for a new passport stamp. We came home from our domestic NP trip this year itchy to try a farther trip next summer, so I’ll keep these suggestions in mind for July 2026

      2. I was also going to suggest Glacier or the Grand Tetons. Glacier is my favorite national park I’ve been to thus far (10 down, 53 to go…). It does get busy, and you absolutely must plan far ahead because they’re doing timed passes for most parts of the park now in the summer (and you should definitely go late July or August because sometimes the Going-to-the-Sun road doesn’t even open until mid-July depending on snow), but outside of a few very popular trails, you can get away from the crowds. I haven’t been to Banff, but I assume it will be pretty similar. Spend at least a few nights in Many Glacier Hotel. Definitely do the Grinnell Glacier hike. I wanted to do Ptarmigan Tunnel, but it was closed the whole time we were there due to bear activity (carry bear spray at all times if you so much as set foot on a trail. Even when 20 feet from the parking lot as we definitely had a brown bear just stroll across right at the start of a trail).

    9. Peru to hike Machu Picchu? July is the dry season, and I’ve heard it’s a good time to visit even though it gets cold at night.

    10. Are you interested in camping? If so you might like doing a guided canoe camp trip. We are about to spend 4 nights on the Allagash River in Maine.

      1. You asked about our outfitter – we are actually DIYing this as we have some canoe camping experience. But we may have bitten off more than we can chew with the whitewater. I will (hopefully) report back…

        Another idea for you is to check out the Appalachian Mountain Club’s lodges and camps. They have a bunch of huts in the White Mountains in NH that you can use to do kind of a backpacking-lite trip (huts provide beds and food so you don’t have to carry so much). We did a family canoe camping weekend at one of their Maine lodges about 6 years ago as our first foray into canoe camping, although my husband grew up canoe camping with his scout troop on the Current River in SE Missouri so had more experience. The Current River is a great place for canoe camping novices. But I don’t know that there are a lot of guided trips there, and it might be a little warm for you in July. It’s also the Ozarks – very different vibe than New England.

    11. I would sign up for Going (formerly Scott’s Cheap Flights) and watch for something that excites you! I get daily emails from the DC airports, and with that kind of flexibility you could definitely save on the airfare for more experience money when you get there.

    12. Raft the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho. It’s a bucket-list adventure and was worth every penny when we did it. You could easily tack on another week for amazing hiking and mountain biking (not to mention lake time) in the area.

      1. I think South Africa is kind of a budget killer if you want to do safari. We’re going next summer and the safari lodges are mostly $1,000/night and up. Flights are also pretty expensive. It will be the most expensive trip I’ve ever taken, and we’re not even doing the ***** luxury places.

        1. Tanzania is cheaper than South Africa if you want to do a safari. And if you’re real adventurous, you can add on a hike up Kilimanjaro. It’s still pricey, though (recommend Access2Tanzania as a company if you do want to go).

    14. Subpar Parks has an instagram highlight of her trip to Scotland, which seems like it could be a good fit (Scotland has an outdoor access code that is cool).

    15. Alaska. I’ve never been to the Norwegian fjords but I have heard that the scenery is comparably amazing, so if you loved that, you’d love Alaska too.

      1. I’ve been to both Alaska and Norway, and there are definitely similarities.

        +1000 for Alaska, can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to see it mentioned. We spent two weeks (one land, one cruise) there in July 2014 and it remains one of my favorite trips ever. It’s right up there with the most naturally beautiful places I’ve been, has the most spectacular wildlife of anywhere I’ve been (caveat that I haven’t been on safari yet) and it definitely won’t be miserably hot in July, although we did have one day on our cruise when it got to 80 and we could swim in the cruise ship pool, which was actually pretty nice. I think on a tight budget you’d probably need to primarily do a cruise and the cruise wasn’t quite as spectacular as the land-based trip but was still very nice. Look into an extension of the cruise that goes to Denali. That’s a common cruise ship offering, and Denali is a great place for hiking and wildlife.

      2. Yes I’ve been to Norway and Alaska and loved both. The food was better in Norway. The wildlife was better in Alaska.

    16. Maybe consider a trip to Alaska?

      New Zealand would be fantastic, and could be quite affordable. I did a quickie North + South Island visit over about a week or ten days one August during the pre-COVID 19 times and very much enjoyed it. I’d be happy to share the itinerary. July would be full-on winter, so you could possibly do some winter sports adventures out of Queenstown.

      And although it is perpetually muggy, you could look into the Rainbow Lodge in the Danum Valley in Malaysia, for potential Orangutan spotting.

      1. Not OP, but I would like your New Zealand itinerary as I’m attempting to plan that trip! Could you email it to corporetteclothesswap at gmail? Thanks!

    17. I was really wowed by the natural beauty on Portugal’s Algarve coast. I’m very well-traveled (40+ countries, 6 continents) and although I was looking forward to the trip, I didn’t expect to be blown away by the scenery, but it was spectacular. I think it would be pretty hot in July though. We went in March and it was lovely.

    18. Thank you thank you! I keep having to step away to do actual “work” (ha! gotta fund that travel), but I’m checking back periodically and updating my bucket list as recommendations come in :) Also googling like a crazy person! You guys really nailed our vibe with these suggestions — we may have our trips planned for the next 10 years. Thank you – and especially for the tips on how to drive down prices by flying into less well known locations (or offshoots of the well known spots that are less $$), and specific spots to stay, which help me narrow my hunt.

      1. I don’t have a good feel for how the prices are from the US, but it‘s easy to get from Munich to the Austrian Alps, the Dolomites, and the Swiss Alps, especially if you rent a car. Switzerland is lovely but very very expensive. Your budget will go so much farther in Northern Italy and Austria.

          1. You can also easily take a train from Munich into Northern Italy to access the Dolomites.

    19. Scottish highlands? Wales? We did some hiking in both (but with younger kids so nothing too off-the-beaten-path) but they were wonderful.

    21. I have two different friends who don’t know each other who both did the 100 mile walk around Mont Blanc in the Alps this summer. You walk 10 ish miles a day and there are lodgings along the way.

    23. Pictured Rocks in Michigan’s UP. Not as exotic as some of the items on the list, but you mentioned backcountry hiking and the scenery is fantastic. The North Country Trail goes through if you want to do a through hike, there are kayak tours if you want to see the rocks, caves, and waterfalls from Lake Superior, and there are a ton of gorgeous sites.

    24. Definitely keep the Scottish Highlands in mind for when you’ve exhausted all of Earth’s more glamorous places 😉

      We honeymooned in the Highlands. We stayed in an old crofter’s cottage nestled against foothills, with sheep in the front pasture. Every day we went out for a different “hill walk” (their mountains are quite small compared to the rest of the world, hence their term). Broad moors, hidden streams, pools shaded by overhanging trees, deep lochs, castle ruins, and SHEEP! 😁

      The further north and west you go, the fewer humans. We added Glasgow to the end of our trip and had such a hard time adjusting to the bustle and humanity of a big city.

      1. Would love more details about where you went. I’d love to do this trip with my kids.

    25. I went to NZ for two weeks at the end of May. We didn’t get to do everything we wanted to do (isn’t that always the case?) but we did a decent portion of both islands. July will be very wintery on the South Island; even in May, there was a lot of snow. We went scuba diving on the north island and had a blast. The north island is quieter and the weather is more temperate.

      Alaska would be amazing in July. We went in June and it was a little early. You could do Katmai, which is an island where the bears fish salmon from a stream. You’ve seen footage of it. You can stay at their lodge but it is $$$$ and requires entering a lottery a year in advance; imho totally worth budgeting for that to be the highlight of your trip. You can do backcountry hikes and fishing from the lodge as well.

      Other national parks out west are also great in July. You could do a road trip of Tetons, Yellowstone, and Glacier. I stayed at the lodges in Yellowstone which really helped to avoid the crowds. Walking around the geysers at sunset with no tourists around was a super cool experience.

      1. Katmai is amazing but definitely not cheap. I think we spent about $2500 for a day trip there for two adults (no lodging) and it was 10 years ago. It was my #1 highlight from Alaska though, in a trip that was filled with highlights.

    27. Thanks so much for starting this thread, I’ve jotted down quite a few ideas :)

    28. A bit out of left field and maybe a little distant/ definitely on the adventurous side, but what about a) Hokkaido in northern Japan or b) Sikkim in northeast India?

    29. Belatedly chiming in with two suggestions:
      – Slovenia for something under-the-radar in Europe – and a bit cheaper than places like Austria/Switzerland/Italy. The Julian alps are absolutely beautiful, you can hike hut-to-hut or base yourself somewhere like Bohinj. Also the Soca river is great for rafting or kayaking if you’re into that sort of thing. I went last summer and loved it.
      – Road trip around the Gaspe peninsula in Quebec. You could fly into Quebec City (or Montreal), hit the Saguenay fjord, then ferry across the St Lawrence and around Gaspe. A bit less rugged than somewhere like Newfoundland, but great hiking, kayaking, whale watching, and gorgeous scenery.

  8. I want to share my thoughts about a post I wrote yesterday. First, thanks to all of you who made helpful comments. I asked for suggestions for clothing rental and was inundated with comments about helicoptering, dressing my child, etc. IT WAS GOING TO BE A GIFT!! If you have a question, ask it. If you are making assumptions about the original post, acknowledge that. For crying out loud, don’t tell me not to helicopter. Don’t tell me that my daughter, who has been buying fashionable clothes at Nordstrom for years, using her own employee discount, should wear nothing but basics from Old Navy.

    Thanks again to everyone who understood my question and gave good feedback.

    1. You came back to scold? You could have just taken the useful pieces of advice and moved on with your life.

    2. Sorry, but you just need to break up with him.
      You have only attracted terrible worthless men. Yes, you will probably be alone forever, but that is mostly your fault and it is time that you just acknowledge it. I know because I have the perfect husband and relationship and yours just isn’t the what I have.

    3. What I love about (most) responses here? They ask about context because it’s important. I see Nuuly only on middle-aged SAHM influencers who want colorful tops and jumpsuits to wear to date night in the south, and on entry-level hires see a lot of mall store staples on rotation that gradually improve with pay grade. But neither of these are relevant for your kid working in a sleepy off season corner of Wisconsin (nor Nordstrom brands, while I’m thinking about it – a fancy name brand down coat may very well backfire as far as impression to give)!

      (I was one who said helping with this stage is 100% not helicoptering, by the way, just don’t think the overall comments deserved a clapback.)

      3. I am not going to wade into this debate (again) but will say as someone who uses Nuuly and really likes it, that is a function of who you follow on social media rather than what they have available. I find it much more useful for everyday practical work (and casual) wear than RTR, which runs very trendy.

        I am losing weight (thank you Wegovy!) and it has been invaluable for helping me through the size transition since I did not want to go buy new clothes that might not fit in a few months.

      4. My 25 year old daughter who works in PR in Chicago loves Nuuly and most of her friends use it too. It’s a lot of Urban and Anthro brands and perfect if you have a big social life and/or a lot of work events and don’t want to repeat outfits. Where you get that it’s all middle aged SAHM’s in just wrong.

          1. Point is none of them are SAHMs not that people are allowed to be frumpy in Wisconsin but not Chicago.

        2. oh ok – I follow a variety of influencers that range from 30 to 50+ and have never seen anyone in the younger part of that age range recommend it.

          Still don’t think it’s right for a rural WI job, though.

      5. I’ve never understood the perspective on here that a fancy name brand will backfire. If a female manager is so petty she looks down on a kid for wearing nicer close than she does, she is the pathetic one and not the kid. Male managers don’t know and don’t care.

        1. I’m picturing the OP’s kid in small town Wisconsin in a Canada Goose or Moncler puffer when everyone else is in Eddie Bauer, Lands End, or LL Bean. It’s not job specific, it’s not looking like a clueless city slicker.

          1. This.

            Regular = Columbia, EB, LE, LL Bean
            Fancy = North Face or Patagonia
            Out of touch = Canada Goose

          2. I grew up in small town Wisconsin, and I wouldn’t have cared what you were wearing unless you were a Californian who was wearing a heavy coat in 40 degree weather.

          3. Ha, I just said below she should get a Canada Goose coat. I’m in a small Midwest city that’s decidedly not fashion forward and I buy most of my clothing at Old Navy, Target and J. Crew Factory, but I invest serious money in outerwear to stay warm. I know quite a few other people here who have Canada Goose coats too. It’s not able the label for me — they really are that warm.

          4. Californian with Wisconsin cousins. We also could not figure out why you guys were wearing shorts in our 50 degree January weather.

          5. hah, yeah I had the same thought about Canada Goose – it’s legit if you’re somewhere you really need it; and somewhat off if you’re in a “snows but not below zero degrees” winter place. Weird how some brands fall into that in between space

        2. I think the idea is that petty, pathetic people can still sabotage employees if they want!

        3. I don’t think nice clothes will hold her back at work unless it’s something extreme like the intern with the Birkin (shoutout to the other OGs) and people assume she doesn’t need to work because she has a multi-million dollar trust fund.

          But I think it’s dumb for a 20-something fresh out of college to spend a lot of money on fancy clothing when ON/BR is just fine and perfectly professional. And renting clothing is even worse from a financial (and I think also environmental) perspective. ON basics aren’t going to last forever but they should last a few years and at that point she’ll probably be more financially stable and able to upgrade to nicer clothes if she wants.

          1. Oh good grief, this was an inquiry about a GIFT. From a mom who knows what her daughter likes!

    6. Old Navy is a perfectly normal clothing suggestion for a recent grad entering the workforce in the Midwest, not an insult.

      1. Yeah I didn’t see the original thread but unless she’s going into banking or something like that, it doesn’t seem like Nordstrom is the right price point for a recent grad.

        1. And if she’s going to into banking, she’s probably not going to be in rural Wisconsin.

      2. Yes.

        The helicoptering comments were way off base but a) almost every new grad wears old navy, BRF, JCF, etc basics to work and b) is nice Nordstrom clothing going to fit in in a very casual rural WI environment?

        FWIW, I’m wearing Old Navy jeans and blouse to my casual job today and I’m a trendy, fashion conscious 30 year old.

        1. It’s a mix. The key to shopping at cheap stores is having good taste oneself and being able to assess whether something’s put together right. They absolutely put seconds out for sale though (I have a mail-ordered t-shirt from them with a crooked neckline that I can only wear under sweaters that hide it). But other things I have bought there are not that different in quality from their affiliated brands or from a spendier but still poor quality brand like Ann Taylor.

          I still don’t love giving them money because of the sense I get that it’s all coming from some kind of horrific sweat shop, but last I checked that was true of a lot of more expensive retailers too.

    7. Did you read the same set of responses that I did? You seemed pretty annoyed that people did not like the clothing rental idea and recommended against it. Clothing rental is not better for the environment than supplementing what she already has with a few seasonal basic pieces from Banana Republic/JCrew/Old Navy. And stylistically most clothing rentals are more middle age mom vs college grad. I’ve tried them, it’s not worth it.

      Rural Wisconsin is going to be on the casual side of business casual. She should plan 3-5 outfits and then order some things after she gets the office vibe.

      1. +1. I asked a question about renting because it made no sense to me. Those services aren’t geared toward younger recent grads, and they certainly are not going to be the vibe for rural Wisconsin. I say that as someone who has been there and is a Midwesterner. Sorry you didn’t like the advice, but it stands. And I defended you in getting your daughter some new work clothes.

      2. totally agree – I spend a lot of time there and skinny jeans are still plentiful.
        IMO some great winter accessories (coats, boots) would be a better gift.

        1. Yeah if you want to spend big money, I’d invest in a great winter coat like Canada Goose.

    8. Um unless you’re in a business formal environment most new grads (and not so new grads) wear a lot of old navy and similar brand basics. You were actually getting good advice.

      Nuuly definitely has fun pieces but most are not office wear nor are they rural, casual Wisconsin wear.

    9. Thank you for this. As an aside, the amount of people on here who recommend Old Navy for professional attire is hysterical.

      1. Why is it “hysterical”? It’s sensible for young people without much money to not spend a lot on clothes. There’s no need to wear designer labels to be professional. I wore a lot of Old Navy as a Big Law associate and it was fine. And OP’s daughter’s work place sounds much much more casual than Big Law!

      4. I’m in my 30s and wear Old Navy to work all the time. They have great basics, pants, and even suiting!

        1. They had a ponte-knit sheath dress a few years ago that I bought for maybe $20 in 4 different colors and sleeve/neckline combos. One of my all-time workhorses, and held up great. I’m 42. They still have this today in mini and midi length.

      5. I wore a mix of things, including some Old Navy, for my entire career. As Angie at You Look Fab says, “leave no retail stone unturned.”

        1. Those pull on wide cropped pants you recommended from there last year were gold for me.

      6. +1. I sought out an Old Navy store after seeing so many recommendations for it here, and I thought their stuff was awful, and not at all appropriate for what I would wear to my (just across the border from Wisconsin!) workplace.

        I don’t understand the hype.

    10. You have to take people’s responses with a grain of salt here. I’m so glad you got some good responses.

    11. Laughing at the outrage in my wardrobe of majority Old Navy rags as a 30 year old in a casual midwest workplace.
      People were responding that the rental idea seemed like poor bang for your buck, and why not just buy for keeps. No one was suggesting not to supplement a solid foundation with higher price point pieces. But go off.

      The way I’ve come to love old navy in the past two years is outstanding just saying.

      1. Same. But I’m a partner in BigLaw. They have basics that are solid, especially if you are changing sizes. Black pants are black pants.

      2. I’m in a rural office (government). Old Navy is high-end (and you have to travel about an hour away to the nearest one). My officemates wear ON when they want to look nice. Most days, they come in wearing whatever they did the morning chores in. Winter means whatever is warm and big enough to accommodate long underwear and layers. Coveralls are not unheard of.
        If I dressed the way I did on the East Coast, I would stick out to the point of possibly alienating customers.

        1. Re: having to drive an hour to ON… We have an ON in my small Midwest city, but we don’t have a GAP. I’m taking my daughter back to school clothes shopping in our state’s capital city next week and I asked her what stores she wants to go to and she said GAP. It’s hilarious to me because my much smaller Midwest city had a GAP when I was growing up. I guess retail is dying, but still it’s kind of hilarious to me that GAP is this fancy big city thing to my kid.

        2. I would think (hope) the number of posters on a fashion blog who wear overalls to work, which they also wore to slop out the barn that morning would be vanishingly small.

    12. Maybe specify up front that this is a gift and that your daughter has Nordstrom tastes? And don’t post if all you will accept is confirmation that your idea is a good one?

    13. I’m usually the first to say to just take commenters at their word: we don’t know all the details of anyone’s life, let alone a stranger on the internet, and people often feel squeamish about giving details that could put them.

      That said… “I would like to give a clothing rental subscription as a gift to my daughter. She will be in Wisconsin, several hours outside of Chicago. Her style normally leans Nordstrom, but her new office is business casual. She hasn’t been there long enough to know which end of business casual they are: one step above causal, one step below business, or somewhere in between. Recs, please!”

      2. Not OP. Followed the op post and this f/u discussion. Wanted to say that this above, and some of the other polite responses, are nice to see. Appreciated seeing the rephrasing idea written out.

    14. I think you missed the point on the comments about whether your daughter has asked for this
      help with this. It isn’t necessarily “helicoptering” to help with early career work wardrobe, either financially or with advice *if your daughter wants that*. It IS the kind of thing that can easily feel overbearing if she *doesn’t want* your involvement (and her not wanting your involvement doesn’t mean you have a terrible relationship). But the place to start is : Daughter, congrats on the job. I’d love to take you shopping and get some new work stuff/winter clothes/whatever – would that be helpful?”

    15. Thanks for the elitist snobbery about “basics from Old Navy” vs. Nordstrom. I wrote that comment, and it was meant to be genuinely helpful. Sorry that I didn’t realize that your daughter WEARS FASHIONABLE CLOTHES FROM NORDSTROM and not the dreck from Old Navy that some other people might find acceptable. Really, how dare I not recognize this kind of class distinction that seems very important to you?

      Sounds like you want to do something for your daughter and you’re now (re) demanding that a bunch of strangers recognize your generosity and self-importance.

      Do what you want. Good luck to your daughter on her new job.

      2. Regular Nordstrom shopper here. I haven’t honestly seen anything fashionable in Nordstrom in ages. I really think they’re catering to a middle-aged crowd now, which is me, but I wouldn’t take my own 20 something daughter there as like a surprise shopping excursion or whatever.

    16. I am with you Law Dawg. I was reading yesterday and thought – can we just answer the actual question and not attack the reasoning behind it. The question was not “my daughter is starting her professional life and needs a few basic items to get going – where should she start”. It was “what do you think of Nully” and if you can’t just answer, scroll. Women have got to stop doing this to other women. Stop assuming the poster is unintelligent/helicoptering/uniformed. Just.Answer.The.Question. In the few times I post, I review the question so carefully before hitting Post to see – how is someone going to miscontrue this? What is going to draw the hive’s ire? We complain an awful lot about the patriarchy, but we need to look in the mirror first.

    19. I just came in today for the first time in months, wasn’t here yesterday for this conversation as I haven’t visited since December. But this thread was a great reminder of why I had quit visiting here at the beginning of 2024. Y’all are nuts. Peace out.

      P.S., there are Internet communities out there that aren’t full of gross, angry, bitter people who lash out at everyone, and life’s a lot better when you start visiting those sites and stop visiting this one.

  9. Can anyone speak to their experience with the skylight calendar? What size do you have, and how do you use it? TIA!

    1. I have the 15” calendar for family organization, and for that purpose I love it. I do not pay the subscription service, which appears to really only allow you to send photos to it. We use it to track school and sports activities, to plot out work travel days, and to assign kids chores. This summer I’ve been using the app on my phone from work to assign a chore list for kiddo to do when he wakes up. I looooove this thing.

  10. Recommendations for a rectangular wood dining table under $1000? Something simple, clean lines.

    1. Buy used, if you can. Most new in that price range will be veneer, maybe even over engineered wood.

      1. +1 buy used. Search FB marketplace or whatever second hand sites are popular near you (it seems to be very regional). You can definitely get a solid wood table way under budget second hand. Plus it’s better quality and better for the planet.

      2. this – watch FB marketplace and local estate sales near you. if there’s a high end version of what you want (a specific style from room & board or abc carpet) then make a note of the style name; sometimes you can set up targeted searches like that.

    4. I had the best luck going to a large furniture store near me where I could see everything in person. If you don’t want to go that route, I’d try Crate and Barrel.

    6. Probably going to be more than $1000, but we ordered coffee table + side tables and book cases from amishoutletstore.com when we got frustrated that we couldn’t find something simple, classic, and real wood locally (and we live in NC, supposedly the furniture capital of the country…). They deliver.

  11. After a recent weight loss, I’ve finally found a bra that works through much trial and error. Unfortunately, it is an unlined bra. Even with my emotional support cami, I still have some visible n@pple in certain shirts. Does anyone have any recommendations on covers to guide my next trial and error process?? If it matters, I’m a 38DDD.

    1. i hate bras with lining — i’m much more likely to go for a thick unlined bra, like the t-shirt bras from fantasie, le mystere, elomi, etc. they keep their shape once you take them off but there’s no pad to fuss with.

      1. When people talk about unlined bras they’re talking about bras that don’t have the foam in them that you’re calling a “thick bra.” A T-shirt bra is a lined bra and much harder fit because it’s meant for one specific shape, like a one size fits all, which is not how actual boobs work in the real world

    2. Have you had a professional bra fitting, at a bra store, not like Victoria Secret? Also, check out the reddit “abrathatfits”. Good luck! You probably will be surprised that you aren’t a 38DDD, if that’s a bra you discovered on your own. I also thought I was a 38 or 40DDD and it turned out I was a 36J! Yes, cups come that big. Women tend to overcompensate with band size when we really need a larger cup size.

      1. I’m not OP, but I am intimately familiar with a bra that fits, and they will tell you your best fit is going to be with an unlined bra, not with a padded bra that camouflages the nips.

        1. Well that’s easy advice to ignore; the key is to measure one’s real size and then go buy a lined bra from one of the brands that carries the right size. Bravissimo has plenty of molded t-shirt bras from various brands; it’s not all pieced and unlined.

          1. The naunce missing here is that padded or lined bra cups are made for one shape and one shape only. Even if you get the right size, if your body isn’t the same shape of that molded cup, it is not going to fit as nicely as an unlined bra.

          2. I think this is where the fitting helps, because they can advise on which brand’s shape is a good match. Maybe I am lucky that any brand carries my shape, but I can’t just buy my size in any brand; it has to be a good fit (though with modern molded cups, there is also a certain amount of stretch to help it conform).

          3. OP here–The trial and error I talked about was for actual size as well as actual shape. I loved my tshirt bras before this. They had a molded cup that was lined just enough to solve this problem. Unfortunately, the size and shape of my boobs has changed. No matter what size I went to (well over and under the 38DDD I’ve landed on for this particular brand of bra), a tshirt bra type of cup did not fit the shape of my boobs anymore. I had to go with the unlined in order to get a cup that actually conformed to the shape of my boobs.

    4. I use reusable silicon nipple covers from the brand NIPPIES – don’t get the adhesive kind, get the non-adhesive.

      You slide them into your unlined bra and they do what a padded bra would do for you. They’re very comfortable, I don’t feel them all day. I just slide them in my bra when I put my bra on in the morning.

    5. Gently echoing the other questions about whether you’ve been properly fitted for the bra, as DDD is the classic “this is the last size we stock so that’s the size I’m going to tell you you are, and I’ll up the band size until it kinda works” size. If you google abrathatfits calculator, that is how I did my sizing at home.

      On to your actual question: I have not personally used the brand Nippies, but friends have in strapless dresses and liked them.

      1. (I am saying this as someone whose size changed 2 band sizes and 4 cup sizes (from a DDD!) when I measured at home, by the way. If you are confident in your sizing, please feel free to disregard, but it was a huge deal for my posture and back).

      2. It’s totally true though. Nordstrom is supposed to be the best at bra fittings but they had me miserably squeezed into a 40E padded bra. I could not wait to fling that thing off the moment I walked in the door after work.

        I did the DIY bra fitting / measuring thing at a bra that fits and I’m a very comfortable 36 to 38G in Uk sizing.

        And no padded bra has ever worked for my projected shape. Padded bras are made for shallow breasts.

        1. Chiming in way late, but Bezi bra discs. They were life-changing for me. $26 on Amazon and infinitely reusable.

  12. I missed the comment yesterday about navigating class differences in a marriage. DH and I struggle with this a lot. He grew up in a military family (enlisted, no one has gone to college); rural, Midwest, poor, conservative. I grew up in what I guess you’d call genteel poverty; my dad skipped out when I was young and my mom lived off the divorce settlement and her parents. We had hand me down antiques stuffed to the rafters but I wasn’t allowed to have toys because they’re too expensive and wasteful. East coast, educated, liberal-ish.

    It’s been hard to understand where we’re each coming from, at times. I’m not sure we’ll ever really “get” each other in that way, but we try our best to be curious, to listen, and to be respectful. It’s like when you hurt someone’s feelings but the thing you said or did wouldn’t have hurt your feelings. Sometimes the golden rule doesn’t apply. You have to learn to empathize as best you can about something that’s foreign to you.

    We don’t have kids yet but I can totally see us having the disagreement OP described. DH spent his summers carefree exploring the woods. Every minute of my childhood was scheduled. Being with DH has made me more comfortable with not over scheduling us and going with the flow. I’m hopeful that will extend to our kids. Balance is best.

    1. Someone mentioned this yesterday, but current upper middle class parenting is moving away from overscheduling kids, and rich people pay big $$$$ to send their kids to sleepaway camps so they can spend summers exploring the woods without a schedule. So on that point you may not have much conflict.

          1. Many (maybe most?) do! Phones can help with classroom behavioral issues (i.e., keep kids sitting still at their desks and not getting up and interacting physically). Some schools incorporate phones using classroom phone apps (where I live quiz apps are very, very commonly used). Other school districts have tried getting rid of them, but there’s a social expectation (especially where there are safety concerns) that parents and kids have a communication channel.

          2. My kids’ public schools (middle and high) technically forbid phone use, but if there are a few extra minutes at the end of class, the teachers usually allow phones to be out and used. And the teachers can’t confiscate phones, so if a student refuses to stop using a phone in class, the teacher has pretty limited options (e.g., sending the kid to the admin office). The last has principal was pretty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and would just send the offending student right back to class with a snack, the new one is more inclined to actually discipline students.

    2. My boyfriend and I have a lot of differences around money based on our background. For example, we don’t agree on what is considered an expensive hotel, preferences around taking public transportation versus and Uber, and saving for retirement and emergencies. It can definitely be a struggle but we work through it and don’t plan on having kids so hopefully that will create less conflict.

    3. For me: east coast, educated, affluent family, even great-grandparents have college degrees.

      Ex-H: Midwest, military brat, parents commuted to college (they were the first in their families to go), and he went on scholarship to state U, then same state U for his doctorate.

      The cultural differences were larger than class differences.

      1. Yes, I think yesterday’s post and this one are more about cultural and value differences than class differences. In my marriage I am the one from a far less economically privileged background, but also the one who has a greater value for education.

        1. It goes so much deeper than that. It’s things like what it means to support your wife’s career. Ex grew up in a family where his mom stayed home for 20 years and then taught third grade. That’s great! She loved it!

          But it makes a lot more sense for him to sacrifice for my job than the other way around, and that never happened. (I’m the one with a far greater earning potential – 5x his – and greater aspirations – I’ve been very seriously approached about running for Governor.)

        2. Can you share a bit more about the distinction between class differences and cultural differences? I guess I have been viewing this as class difference is a type of cultural difference.

          1. Cultural differences that aren’t about class:
            -church attendance.
            -how intense people can get about religion (eg Ex knows some people who didn’t kiss before their wedding; that’s unheard of in NY, even if very religious).
            -linguistic differences (using overstatement or understatement, being literal).
            -how “up in people’s business” it’s okay to be.
            -how people view friendships (friends as chosen family vs the people you hang out with).
            -how much risk is too much risk.
            -how “good” you expect life to be.

          2. There is overlap, for sure, but someone that comes to mind is Ballerina Farm (the insta influencer). They are uber wealthy, but also homeschool and raise animals and do all their own cooking and have a very “traditional gender roles” family set up. Other people in that wealth echelon may be all about private or boarding schools, outsourcing their food prep and cleaning, both parents having high powered jobs, etc. And many families near the poverty line may value homeschooling, homesteading, etc. To me, culture is about your family values and priorities, and those can cross class lines.

    4. I also didn’t comment but I have seen this playing out first hand with my BIL. He came from a comfortable middle-class family, she came from what sounds like a pretty stressful paycheck to paycheck existence with a single mom. It’s played out in some really interesting ways- she sees basically any amount of money as comfortable and he is constantly stressed about not having enough because he isn’t able to recreate his childhood. To the point where she hasn’t had a real job since they had a kid 10 years ago, and he has been working two jobs, budgeting nonstop, and getting money from his parents. He does almost everything around the house too. It’s frustrating to watch because both her and her mom are basically sponging off my husband’s parents at this point.

      1. “Basically sees any amount of money as comfortable” describes my SIL perfectly. She also doesn’t see a real need to work or hold a job longer than 3 months, and while my brother does well, his occupation comes with a lot of fluctuations in income, and I see how stressed he gets about how she spends money.

        1. Oh, and same scenario. He does nearly everything around the house and keeps their lives in order. I do not understand how she spends her time, because it’s not on work, or the house, or even the kids.

    5. Thank you so much for this and for continuing the input from yesterday! I am the OP, and my DH is also from a military family, enlisted side. I have a lot of difficulty separating what is his personal preference from his cultural upbringing. And he feels the same way about me. I like what you said about the golden rule not applying. And maybe there is a way to thread the needle on all of this so that we take the best of both worlds rather than him feeling like a failure in my culture, and me feeling like a failure in his culture.

      1. Well, our personal preferences often stem from our cultural upbringing. Values get ingrained early.

        It always surprises me when these value differences pop up after marriage, as I feel like this is what I clarify so early in relationships. But I do realize that until the kids are there, or $$ amounts are on the table that are larger than a dinner out, often people just… assume, or tiptoe, or hope for the best thinking “everyone is like reasonable me”.

  13. Update & PSA on my post last week asking about Phase Eight for occasion dresses: I ordered two dresses, and they shipped immediately, arriving in 3 business days. Sadly, it turns out I ordered completely the wrong sizes. It’s partly my fault, because it does say “US size” when you’re selecting it, but the size chart is for UK sizes. So I tried on two dresses that were 4 sizes too large. I’m returning them and ordering one in the right size. I’m really happy with the quality – clean seams, fully lined, set-in zippers – and think they would both be quite flattering if they fit.

    I’m glad I have a few weeks before I need the dress, because I would have cried instead of laughed if there were a time crunch!

  14. SECOND month in a row my period came after 21 days. this feels like the beginning of the end!!

        1. Yeah but if it’s a change it’s indicative of perimenopause. If it’s how it’s always been for you it’s different.

          1. I know. My comment was probably too curt.

            Part of perimenopause isn’t just the change in cycle length; it’s also that cycle lengths are often out of normal range and often vary a lot between cycles. So regular cycles within the normal range (21-35 days) is… yeah it’s a change, but it’s not like she’s going from 18 days to 45 days.

      2. Yeah, I’d say a three week cycle was my last five years of having a period. But they were three day periods, not five day periods, so I guess that helps. however, the first day was heavier flow than anything I’ve ever had in my life before then.

          1. After I had my babies I remember my OBGYN saying to call her for “heavy bleeding,” which she defined as immediately filling a pad and running down your leg and filling your shoe.

            There were times during perimenopause that I wondered if my day 1 flow was meeting that criterion.

    2. My period came on a 28-day cycle almost every time and then randomly went to a 24-day just in time to start as I was launching on a three-day wilderness trip. Still mad about that one.

    3. Do you use a period tracker app? I’ve been keep stats on mine for about a decade now and I’m surprised at how irregular it is. I’ve always known it has been irregular but tracking showed me just how much. I had one that was 14 days and another that was 41 not close together though. My cycle hasn’t gotten shorter as I age but the actual period went from 1 week down to 3 days after kids.

      1. Yea I only have one kid but after giving birth my period got *much* shorter and lighter. My OB said it would be a temporary change and would return to normal once I was fine breastfeeding but it never went back to normal. A surprising (to me) bonus for having a baby!

    4. I hear you!!! After 28 day cycles until I was 38, I now have gone down to 21-25ish cycles, with the occasional 17-day and 31-day surprise thrown in there. I’m 42. I hate this.

      I’ve taken more pregnancy tests in the last 2 years because of these odd-ball long cycles than I have in the prior 25 years combined! (And yes, we always use protection, so it would be extremely unlikely to get pregnant. My family doctor cautioned me a lot of perimenopause and said I wouldn’t believe how many women get accidentally pregnant in their 40s.)

  15. What were your favorite summer lounge shorts?
    I’d like to buy a few more pairs now that sales are great.

    Want cool, light, thin. I’m a high waisted pear with generous rear so the rise is sometimes an issue.

    2. Whatever high-waisted, covered elastic option ON has in a color I like and a kind of mid-length inseam. I get them in my normal size but opt for the tall version for no wedgies.

      1. Oh…. I’ve never tried the tall version (I’m just over 5’7″). I just assumed they were longer, but not necessarily that the rise was different. Thanks for that idea!

        1. I do, and I don’t find the rise in the Amazon ones to be problematic. Good luck! I have a lot of trouble with shorts.

  16. Looking for help with high quality loose/boxy tees that I can wear while breastfeeding that look good under blazers/on work calls. Is Everlane decent quality? Other brands? The Maeve boxy crop tees at Anthro are super cute but out of my size (medium).

    1. I’m obsessed with Gap’s organic cotton tees – they have both crewneck and v-neck. They are soft, comfy, loose fitting, and there are a million colours.

    3. I think the Everlane ones are decent quality, especially if you can catch them on sale. I think they usually do a deal on 3 of them?

    4. I swear I am not a shill for Uniqlo but their Airism T-shirt is fantastic. The fabric is smooth so it reads nicer than a tshirt on camera, its boxy and holds its shape well. It comes in a ton of colors and it’s $20. The white is totally opaque and one of my favorite shirts. Note, the neckline is high, which I love, but may bother some.

  17. A few days ago someone mentioned dressing “neutrally” for a date and I’ve been thinking about it ever since. Is that a thing people do? Why on earth would you not dress like yourself? Am i misunderstanding what the point was? Of course I can’t find the original comment or context so maybe I’m just stirring the pot here (in a fun way I hope!) – would love to hear if this is a thing people do and if so why!

    1. Maybe they meant not too fancy or too casual? You don’t want to seem like you’re trying too hard, or not putting in some effort.

    2. In my early to mid twenties I didn’t want to look like I was trying too hard. I stuck to flattering but basic clothes on dates. By my late twenties I decided screw it, I’m going to wear what I want. If I’m more dressed up than the guy or he thinks my fashionable ensemble is too out-there who cares? I ended up with a guy who dresses pretty vanilla but appreciates my fashion sense.

  18. hi all – planning a mid-Sept. trip to Boston with my husband who’s never been! planning to stay mostly in the city and do things like Freedom Trail, Red Sox game, etc. I actually lived there years ago but it’s been a while and never stayed in hotels there! would love any thoughts on specific hotels or just areas where to stay.. comfortable using the T to get around, just can’t decide what neighborhood to stay in. Budgetwise, nothing too fancy needed. just clean & convenient! (Or – is there an amazing option worth a splurge?)

    1. Be warned that hotel prices in Boston are off the charts right now and availability is limited. Getting anything under $300/night that is clean and convenient (like a baseline Marriott or Sheraton can run you $400/night) is going to be hard. I suggest looking at what is available and in your price range.

      1. Yeah, I went for a weekend recently and the hotel rooms were incredibly expensive for kind of “meh” hotels in not-very-convenient neighborhoods. I ended up at a Sonder, which is sort of like a cross between a hotel and a vacation rental. It was nice enough and super convenient (we stayed at the one in Back Bay).

      2. +1. We just took a trip to Boston in May. The Courtyard Marriott near Copley Square was over $400/night after taxes etc.

    2. I’m going next weekend and staying at the W in Back Bay. It’s about $600 a night.

      1. My goodness…. that was my rent for my tiny 1 bedroom apartment when I first moved to Cambridge/Boston many years ago.

    3. There are a ton of options in Boston. My own preference is to stay somewhere around the Aquarium T stop. We drive in rather than fly, so there’s a parking garage right there with reasonable (for Boston) rates. We only use the T while we are there, so it’s very nice to have the Aquarium stop right there. It feels like a quieter part of downtown. But it is still a quick walk to most of the things that you want to see (quicker actually than taking the T).

  19. What part of the country do you live in and do you feel like the area and local schools support your school age children who are creative and curious? My kids definitely have a creative streak and are very curious. I’m in a large metro in the South and I feel like our area and the schools along with it do not value this, it’s much more standard test driven and about conformity. Ace standard test, do team sport.

    1. Teachers in the arts will tell you they’re long marginalized. The arts are always the first things to get cut. I’d recommend supplementing your child if you can afford it.

    2. New Jersey suburbs and yes absolutely. We have astonishingly good music theatre and arts programming. And we pay for it with high property taxes.

    3. Bay Area and not really unless you’re in certain private schools. Schools use iPads and worksheets excessively and every playground game is monitored by adults to within an inch of its life.

    4. Yes, in MA, but public schools don’t hold a candle to private schools focused on, say, the arts. But our public music, drama, and art programs are quite strong.

      1. I think a part of that is that a private arts high school is (generally) for people who want to go pro. The next step for most of those students is conservatory or a trainee position in a ballet company or a performance major at a regular college or university.

      2. As an example, my daughter’s middle school sports teams coordinate with the select band/orchestra because a lot of kids want to be sporty and musical.

    5. I live in DC and my kids attend a title I DC public elementary school. I love the diversity and emphasis on emotional regulation, and I think there is a big focus on creativity- their “specials” each week are library, yoga, art, PE, music, and spanish, and they have an art show and two concerts throughout the school year. My daughter’s PK4 class voted on their area of focus each quarter and the teacher designed lessons around it. The last part of the year was on space and it was amazing and hilarious hearing the facts about space my 4 year old came home with. And of course there are approximately a million extracurricular options in the DC area, which is nice too. Of course they are young now, we’ll see how it changes when they get older, but I love the focus on well rounded kids at the moment.

    6. Honestly the people I know in the south whose kids are either more creative or very interested in science are currently sending them to private or charter schools sometimes with the exception of performing arts if those are well supported. My general impression is that the south still has a lot of conformity culture that I guess I associate with Scottish/English and protestant heritage? I grew up in an area with a lot of immigrant and religious traditions, and it felt like there was more diversity of opinion, more expressive and individual fashion choices, more interest in arts and culture, and more of a discovery/inquiry oriented approach to science education.

      1. “The south” is a giant area and it’s hard to paint with one brush. Can we please stop with that?

        1. Thank you from a Midwesterner. I’m tired of people painting entire regions of the country with one brush. There are big cultural differences between states and even within the same state, big city vs college town vs rural is all so different.

        2. If the shoe fits? I could definitely break things down more, and I think it’s obvious how my description doesn’t apply to every part of the south, but overreliance on charter schools to meet these needs is a real phenomenon that is happening.

    7. Midwest red state, blue college town with an excellent school district and high (for the local area) property taxes. I feel like public schools in the US in general don’t support the arts as well as they could, but ours does better than most? In particular they have a really amazing music program.

      My kid is still quite young (early elementary) but so far seems much more artsy than academic or athletic, although she does well in school and standardized tests. She loves school and her teachers seem to love her. Early elementary (K-2) involves a lot of play here, and teachers appear to foster creativity and imagination. My daughter mainly pursues her specific interests outside of school (she does dance, musical theater, and multiple drawing/painting classes) which I think is typical. In junior high and high school there’s more opportunity to get involved in music and theater extracurriculars through the school system.

    8. I live in a college town in the Midwest and that describes my kids to a T. Yes, I feel like their endeavors have absolutely been supported, whether it’s through STEM programming, fine arts, performing arts, or camps that are geared toward more academic interests and discovery/creativity. Athletics is still overblown (IMO), but my creative kids have had no trouble finding good outlets and instruction.

    9. Montgomery county, MD here – I feel like there are lots of opportunity to support both creative and athletic endeavors. My 12 year old daughter takes theatre classes and plays basketball, both in school and out of school. My 7 year old son takes sewing classes and plays soccer. There are three or four art studios near us that offer art classes in a variety of mediums. I’m always grateful the opportunities are here because aside from summer camp and art classes in school, I didn’t have those opportunities when i was growing up.

      1. Yes, in arguably the best school system in the country, there are plenty of opportunities to explore and excel in anything. If you can afford it, you can have it.

    10. I don’t have kids, but when I was in school (graduated high school in 2001), my southern public school DEFINITELY did not have resources widely available for these types of children. I’d have the random teacher who I clicked with every few years, but I didn’t really feel “supported” being a weird, curious, artsy kid until I ended up going to my my state’s math and science school in high school. They have added the arts as a focus now, as well.

    11. I live in a well-off part of metro Los Angeles, and I think our local K-12 schools do a really good job supporting kids who are creative and curious. The schools my kids attend have big sports teams *and* big music and arts programs. It’s not like everyone gets along all the time or people don’t crab about perceived inequities, but arts and music programs in my rural MD high school were pretty much an afterthought and not well-supported by the administration or community.

      In our schools, there are some kids who are interested in arts as a career, but there are plenty of kids who are not, probably because they see what it’s like up close. One of my husband’s close friends is an actor who has worked consistently for many years. This guy is a success in that he’s employed quite a bit and has been in some big-deal movies, but he is not well-off and it is a really tough grind.

    12. Extremely rural school here. There’s an impressive effort by the school to increase and improve the arts, and they’re attracting some great kids who have been longing for alternatives to sportsball and ag extracurriculars. Unfortunately, there’s very little parental support, so it’s largely up to the kids and their faculty advisors to make it all happen. It would be nice to see the sort of turnout that shows up for sports, to their events (which are higher quality, IMO).

    13. MN metro – granted I don’t have kids but from my own & friends’ kids experiences – yes. There is still the ‘score well on standardized testing’ focus but many local schools have robust, well-regarded programs in arts, theater, music, etc. It does seem like there’s pressure for kids to choose 1 sport to focus on very early though (for curious – ability to try out new things).

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