ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Long Pencil Skirt

A woman wearing a white long sleeve top and black long pencil cut skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Ten years ago, I would have died before I recommended a long skirt for the office, but with the proliferation of midi skirts these days, I think this long pencil skirt from Mango might actually be acceptable.

I would pair it with a button-up blouse for an easy business casual look. 

The skirt is $49.99 at Mango and comes in sizes XS-XL; the black one has lucky sizes still available up to 4X. You can also find the skirt at Nordstrom (down to $35!) and Macy’s (also $35!).

Sales of note for 12.5

382 Comments

  1. How was everyone’s Halloween? Any crazy anecdotes/unexpected occurrences?

    1. It was fun. Took my son trick-or-treating. It’s such a fun holiday; it can be as low key or as extra as you want it to be and there’s free candy.

    2. Here’s my Halloween hot take- I hate that when I take my kids, everyone wants to know where my husband is. He’s handing out candy at our house! Sorry but I think if we expect candy from everyone else, it’s nice to also hand it out at our house.

      1. People are just making conversation with you. They’re acknowledging your spouse. Just use it to chit chat.

      2. I don’t think it’s weird to have one parent stay home to give out candy, but I also think it’s fine to have both parents go with the kids. It’s a short season of life when you have kids who want their parents to trick or treat with them. We did our candy duties when we were DINKs and will do them again when our kids are tweens and older.

    3. Our neighborhood is insane. One house each year has a different theme and hires actors to put on a show. Some houses had decorations that were quite scary. Unfortunately one of my kids was a bit of a disaster all evening. Next year can someone please remind me not to make a million and one plans for the weekend after

    4. I moved into a new apartment building a few months ago and I didn’t get any trick or treaters. I was prepared with candy just in case, but looks like I’ll be taking it to work now.

    5. Fewer kids than I expected so the office candy bowl is going to get a reload next week!

      Best costume was a kid dressed as a fire truck (homemade, built out of cardboard). I appreciated the effort among a sea of kids in random clothes and a mask!

      1. Our friends live in a neighborhood like this and they make a party of it. They make chili and other snacks and buy some candy. Friends and family bring a couple bags of candy each and maybe snacks to share. We all set up outside and a couple people hand out candy while the others sit around the fire pit. Then we switch off until the candy is gone at which time we go home or move to the backyard. It is fun.

    6. I didn’t participate this year but I think next year I am going to hand out candy. My neighborhood gets about 2000 trick or treaters and it’s really expensive to participate, so with no kids myself and a tight belt I have always opted out. But I’d like to plan to next time.

      1. Lots of people in my area have switched from candy to snack packs or the little bags of Costco pretzels. You could consider that as a more cost effective (and frankly, healthier) option!

        1. I sincerely doubt that is cheaper than snack size candy. I buy 15+ bags every year because I need hundreds of pieces, and have scoped out all options. Candy is the cheapest.

      2. You could also get X amount of candy, hand it out til its gone, and then turn off your light! That way you get to participate, but you can also stick to your budget

      3. Holy cow. I thought we had a lot with 200! 2,000 kids over 3 hours is 10 per minute.

      4. Another idea, you could get a package or book of Halloween themed stickers or tattoos which I’d expect have a much lower cost-per-unit than candy. Kids just want something to stick in their bag!

      5. Next year is a Friday. Invite friends who live in neighborhoods without trick or treaters to join you and ask them to bring a couple bags. In my neighborhood, all of the festivities are in a few block radius, so we all go to friends’ houses who are on those blocks and hang on the stoop.

    7. It was a bit bittersweet as my teen/tween go with their friends to trick or treat. I miss the little kid/walking around with a group of neighborhood friends/parents. We’re also now the house that hands out full size candy bars because I love seeing how excited the kids get. Sadly we bought 90 bars and had only 40 kids max. Planning to donate the extras to local organizations sending it oversees to service members.

      1. Ditto on several counts! I have middle schoolers so one walked around with friends and finished the night at our house for smores, and the older one opted out entirely. In past years, Halloween was a social night of walking around with my (adult) friends as our kids hung out together.
        We also bought full size and gave out most, but probably had ~25 trick or treaters total (which is a banner year in our neighborhood).

    8. I live in an apartment building so I went to a friend’s place to hand out candy. We didn’t get that many kids. Some of them were barely in costumes and many didn’t even say thank you!

    9. Really wish the ever-trumpers could have not made it their entire personality for just one night

    10. A good time was had by all! And it wasn’t “too much.” We used to live in a neighborhood where Halloween was over the top, I mean streets flooded with kids and adults (many houses even did adult trick or treating for bbq, and drinks). It was a lot of fun, but in retrospect was exhausting. You add on top of that the literacy parade where actual book characters were expected and really done up Halloween parties that I felt compelled to volunteer at AND no less than 4 fall festivals (2 different of my kids schools, church and then a friend’s), I wanted to crawl into a hole by Nov 1.
      This year we moved and our new neighborhood/school is so laid back. Participate if you want to, don’t if you don’t want to. If you do, it’s low key 90s style parenting. Bring some candy for the class party. On Halloween night, quiet streets with some trick or treating but vehicles stayed off the road which helped with my anxiety. The weather was lovely. My kids got enough candy that they felt the night was a win but it wasn’t so much that it lasted all year as in past years. Their school literacy parade was so refreshing- it was absolutely just wear your Halloween costume to school and all kids did. It was nice.
      My unexpected experience was this- I was telling my SIL how happy I was that the school was so laid back about the literacy parade and how it renewed my faith in the ability to live with sanity parenting in 2024. She is a teacher and went off about how she does a fairy tale unit with a class party at the end in December. And it upsets her that the kids wear Disney outfits to the fairytale party. Huh? Disney owns this genre what did she expect and why is it upsetting? It made me realize that my SIL is a source of the “performative parenting” that others have mentioned.

        1. It’s the event the schools do here on Halloween day. It’s the literacy parade or storybook parade. It’s a parade where kids are supposed to wear a costume based on a book. In many schools movie characters are discouraged or prohibited.

        2. It’s a way for schools to celebrate Halloween by allowing kids to wear costumes but not explicitly tying to to Halloween and making it have some academic connection

      2. I was on the PTA for our elementary school until about a year ago. One of our teachers complained, every single year, about how in the old days, parents would host a Halloween carnival during and after school on Halloween, and it was “so magical.” I said that school days were tough for working parents, which is why we’d switched to a Saturday – and she just kept doubling down, talking about how magical it was when the moms created this wonderful fall festival on, like, a Tuesday from 1-3. It was MADDENING.

    11. Really nice. We got invited to trick or treat in an adjacent neighborhood and I left my three year old with my mom so my eight year and he could go all out. Good time had by all the place was buzzing and the family that hosted us was super kind and fun. I regret that we’re not more connected to the social fabric of the school and community because everyone seems so nice but I never figured out how to break through.

      1. I went around with my 12yo and her 2 friends who all had a group costume dressed as The Purge – they had an awesome time until my DD twisted her ankle :/ but hopefully it’s not too bad!

        My 14yo refused to ToT after I told him he needed to wear his specific shoes for his broken toe, and the 17yo just went to bed early since she had a night off from her play rehearsal.

    12. Husband and I went out to a restaurant. In the same parking lot, one of the other businesses was doing a combo truck-or-treat / car show. Lots of muscle cars and other cool things. Wondered during our meal whether it would be fun to bring our own classic cars out for the show next year. Decided against it when 15 cops showed up to break up the festivity, and there seemed to be a near riot between aggrieved parents of kids wanting candy, cops, and car guys trying to make fast & furious getaways. Oh well.

    13. My kids had a blast. Somebody booed my house earlier in the week, and I didn’t have the capacity to reciprocate, and I’m carrying a little guilt about it. I don’t have an extra hour in my day to go to to store and buy treats, not to mention print something! Instead of railing about performative parenting (which it kinda is!), I’m thinking about how overscheduled I am right now. Not with kids activities (they have nothing going on right now), but with work, life, errands, and exercise (a non-negotiable).

      1. Let go of the guilt! The fun of the “boo” is in the “booing,” I would have no problem whatsoever if someone I boo-ed didn’t boo it on. :)

          1. Same! What is booing? I was thinking it meant they said negative things about your house lol

          2. Oh, a neighbor leaves a gift basket and a note that “you’ve been booed” at your doorstep. You’re supposed to tape the note to your door, print 2 copies of the note, and make 2 more treat bags, and then leave them on 2 other neighbors house. We live in a wealthy neighborhood with a lot of rich bored SAHMs who do way too much. The gift bag we received probably had $40 of stuff in it. It was very generous but I don’t have the time to create any more magic. I was full of dread when I saw it, but the kids were excited.

      2. Dont! We boo and I always try and make it anonymous so people don’t feel guilty. My kids are obsessed with it.

    14. I found a “live TV” streaming Hitchcock marathon which was really fun-got to catch “Vertigo” and “Psycho” and noticed a bunch of really cool details in both I’d never seen. One thing is in “Psycho” a couple times the script has characters specifically saying “a sick old woman” in such a way that it almost sounds like “a sicko”–I’m convinced perfectionist Hitchcock did that on purpose!

      Also, Janet Leigh and Anthony Perkins almost bear a resemblance to one another at times, when she’s driving away with the money and imagining people talking about her, she has this fixated, wicked look on her face that sparked an immediate thought “these two characters are fated to meet”.

      But weirdly, the “live tv” ads were about 50% Spanish-language (which is a language I don’t speak) and I’ve noticed that on more and more live tv ads (like in YT). It doesn’t bother me, but it is odd!

    15. We are always minimal decor people. The people in the neighborhood who usually go all in didn’t. I think none of us are really feeling festive given the year of hate we have all been subjected to by the Republican Party. Going around the cul de sac, we have a childless cat lady, a gay couple and a really diverse group of people in their first or second generation from immigration. We did have a lot of young trick or treaters and really nice parents, and we ran out of candy early.

    16. Our kid is in college, so we went out trick-or-treating with my SIL and BIL and their little kids. It was super boring because it was mostly standing around while the kids ran around in the street whacking other kids with plastic swords. In two hours they visited about three houses. Then we went home and put our candy out on the stoop so we could start dinner. We checked the candy five minutes later and all 100 pieces were gone. We turned out the lights, made veggie burgers, and watched the Charlie Brown Halloween special.

      1. Trick or treating with really small kids who don’t “get it” and have to be coached every step of the way is, indeed, boring.

        1. These kids are in elementary school! They just wanted to play in the street with all the other random kids instead of actually trick-or-treating.

          1. My precious 5 yo uses it as an opportunity to meet everyone’s dog, and snoop in peoples houses and ask a lot of questions!!! And forgets about candy lol

    17. This is one of those times that this board seems to live in an alternate universe than the people I run into in my daily life. I had no trick or treaters in my neighborhood and none of the coworkers I’ve spoken with had any in their neighborhoods either. Except for a few pumpkins, the holiday didn’t exist for us.

      1. We had maybe six. I’m in a Chicago suburb. Husband and I were wondering if perhaps it’s just not done that much anymore or something. Houses up and down our street are all decorated. Lot of the older owners have moved out and McMansions with younger families moved in. Weather was windy but not raining or super cold. Just really weird. Should have been prime trick or treating.

      2. Us too. Did not exist in northern NJ. No trick or treaters or much of anything. There are kids on my street but no one was out.

    18. Our street is a destination for Halloween. It’s really fun but a little overwhelming. We had more than 300 kids and ran out of candy. I felt bad, but also spent $150 on candy and feel like there’s a lot of pressure. I’m solo parenting this week and didn’t do much to decorate. But my toddler went trick or treating on our block for the first time and she had a blast, it was really cute. She didn’t actually eat any candy because I gave it back when we ran out- she is too young to care. I didn’t get any leftover candy tough!

    19. We saw some great decorations and costumes when running errands! I felt bad that we were out in a car while trick or treating began, but better a safe driver than an unsafe one I guess. I laughed at a “Cats for Kamala” sign in one yard. Somebody had animatronic horror movie characters that were way too veristic for me. I’m also lucky that my fear of spiders generally doesn’t extend to anything tarantula sized or larger because it looks like Shelob reproduced in this neighborhood.

      We live a block away from a university campus, so at home there was a loud party that went a little later than it should have, but that’s a rare event and it would have been kind of sad if Halloween wasn’t a party occasion at all. No trick or treaters here, but I’m enjoying looking at photos from friends and family this morning.

      1. Oh and I finally saw a Cybertruck in person (I’ve failed to notice them quite a few times by now, but this was parked on the side of the road while we were specifically looking at people’s yards, so my inherent aversion to cognitively registering their existence failed me).

        1. I see them on the road from time to time (Bay Area) and always think “how embarrassing for you”

          1. I saw a thing on social media where someone pretended to mistake the back end of one for a garbage dumpster, and the visual similarity was uncanny.

      2. Thanks for being a cool person who understands that an occasional college party that goes a bit later than it should is nothing to get upset about :)

        2. Our cat was pretty excited about the party, and he’s completely zonked today after his late night.

    20. It was enjoyable. The rain let up in the afternoon and it was windy but not too cold for this time of year (last year we had the first snowstorm of the year right on Halloween).
      My kiddo went trick-or-treating with a friend who we really like (plus the family, too), and we parents just strolled along. It’s big enough to walk around for an hour but not too many houses actually lean into Halloween, so it’s not overloaded in a good way. Our neighborhood is also very diverse so a lot of people were celebrating Diwali, as well!
      We started at 6pm and were done by 7:15pm, had hot soup waiting that I’d prepared earlier, and the rest of the evening was cuddling under a blanket and reading.

      I am also so proud of my kid. They don’t like sweets at all, and in previous years insisted to trade the candy collected for salty snacks – which made for 20 bags of mini pretzels which frankly they took months to finish and didn’t care about… This year kiddo suggested they could put their candy back into the bowls we had in front of our door, so that it’s immediately put back into circulation – “I don’t even go trick-or-treating for the candy or snacks, I just like to ring other people’s doorbells and show them my costume”.

      We ran out of candy by 8pm.
      There was one family ringing at 9pm since I had forgotten to turn off the lights. I could tell they were from the social housing around the corner (we get a lot of trick-or-treaters from there), and I felt so bad I didn’t have any candy left. The mom was still in scrubs and probably came back late from work and wanted to make it happen for her kids. Will keep an emergency stash of chocolates next year.

      1. That sounds amazing! I love the “immediately regift candy you know you don’t want” strategy.

      2. Midwesterner? We had our first snowstorm of the season on Halloween last year too. It was awful. My kid regifted her candy this year for the first time ever. Apparently her teacher suggested it, and I thought it was a really nice idea.

    21. I got twice as many trick or treaters than I expected! I ran out of candy so started giving away Chinese style rice crackers (they’re individually wrapped at factories). Guessing the warm weather helped last night.

    22. While driving home past the local college campus, some students were in obvious costumes, but others I couldn’t tell whether it was a costume or outrageous gen z fashion…

    23. I did a yoga class where the teacher is so good at leaning into fun themes; she packed in all the variations of poses that she could make halloween themed – black cats, bats, Frankenstein walks, zombie walks, etc. My favorite was the zombie walk sun salutation variety where you zombie walked from the back of the mat to the front; it was very fun. I was surprised how much I loved it.

      1. That sounds so fun! It’s neat to hear about non-kid-centric ways of celebrating Halloween

        1. Oh another thing DH and I do (childfree) is the entire month of October we only watch shows/movies that can fall into the Halloween category – scary, horror, etc. Last year we watched a lot of movies, this year we watched all of Evil, Hysteria!, and are in the middle of the current season of AHS. We’ve done this for 4 or 5 years, it’s fun.

          1. We caught up on a lot of Wes Craven movies over the course of the month and had a lot of fun doing this.

    24. In my neighborhood of about 250 3 to 4 bedroom homes we had a total of 7 trick or treaters. Weather was sunny and 75. Cannot figure it out. Did not see any walking around and just not coming to my house either. There were none. I was thinking trick or treating is dead in the NYC suburbs.

    25. We live on a big trick-or-treat street and so we bought 15 bags of candy. By 7:30 we had gone through only about two bags. So we thought it was a bust. But then by 9 PM it was all gone. We had a crazy surge. We barely held back a few Twix for me and some Nerds for my husband.

      I love seeing everyone’s costumes so it’s my favorite night of the year. I just sit on the front steps or somebody in my household sits on the front steps and we let the kids pick their own candy. When we thought it was pretty dead, we said you can take two, but by the end we were saying take one.

      My favorite moment was a little girl dressed as Joy from Inside Out. I was wearing a DIY Sadness costume. So my husband pointed out to her that I was Sadness, but she didn’t say anything. I didn’t know whether she got it. But then as she was walking away, she turned around and said, “we’re the opposite!”

      Later, a little boy said “don’t worry, Sadness, we’ll be your friends. You don’t have to be sad anymore.”

      I had a little girl come up dressed in a pink tweed suit, I don’t even know how she found it in her size (I’m guessing she was about second grade) but it was adorable with her blond wig. I asked, “are you Elle Woods?” And she said, “yes! Everyone thinks I’m Barbie!”

    26. My eldest (high school junior) opted to play “spooky” music on our stoop with her friend while we handed out candy. The big surprise was that eldest (girl) had a friend, a boy, come and hang out for the performance, then they watched movies together after the trick-or-treaters died down. She’d never mentioned him before! They might be “just friends,” but something tells me you don’t go to a girl’s house and be on your best behavior for three hours because you’re “just friends” with a girl.

      Youngest went with a group in an adjacent neighborhood and came home exhausted.

    27. Alas we don’t have sidewalks in our neighborhood and the number of trick or treaters has dwindled to about two sets per year. Which didn’t stop us from getting a box of 30 full sized candy bars. The leftovers are in the freezer for emergencies.

    28. Good and a bit sad? My one year old went trick or treating and was adorable, even though she had no idea what was going on.

      I wanted to be the “cool” house, so I bought two packs of Halloween Pokemon cards on clearance at Costco. I put the contents of one package out in a bowl (100+ cards), and they were immediately gone in 5 minutes at 6pm. Ring camera shows two boys emptying half the bowl into grocery bags and running away. Lesson learned – I put half of the next package in the bowl and left to go trick or treating. Camera later shows 3 teenagers emptied the entire bowl literally one minute after I stepped away. Got home, saw the bowl was empty, and filled it again so all the trick or treaters in front of my house could grab something. Same story – 5 min later, 3 teen girls emptied the whole thing. It was so sad to see the little kids who came afterward stare into the empty bowl. At first I was pretty upset about these big kids ruining Halloween for the little ones, but 1) I should have known better, because leaving out Pokemon cards is basically like sticking cash in a bowl outside; and 2) I tried to reframe it as hopefully these big kids have a fun memory of that one time they scored a jackpot at that chump’s house lol.

      1. I don’t know why it didn’t dawn on you the first time, but next year, don’t just leave out a bowl. That never works. Hand out candy personally, one at a time, or else don’t participate.

        1. It didn’t dawn on me the first time because I left the same cards in the bowl last year, and they lasted a few hours. Everyone else’s candy bowl was still full when we circled the neighborhood this year. Next time I’ll just go with regular candy instead of something more popular.

        2. I’ve definitely noticed an uptick in kids emptying the bowl. I told my kids if I ever caught them doing that it would be the last time they ever trick or treated.

          1. I think leaving the bowl out works early in the evening when the tiny kids are out with their parents right behind them. The older kids who go without parents or whose parents are standing at the curb with a beverage in a koozie are the ones who take the whole bowl.

  2. This is just me thinking out loud –

    I’ve been in a management role for about 2 years now and generally loved it. Recently I did more IC-type work for a specific project. On one hand it was nice to just be given technical work and do it, but on the other hand it definitely stress me out / annoys me more to not be “in charge”. A therapist once told me that maybe I would be less stressed in management roles and I think she had a point.

    I guess I sometimes second guess myself because I hear so much about people not liking management (from friends, yesterdays post, etc) but I shouldn’t.

    1. 100% I loved middle management. It was sort of my sweet spot, and I feel it can be a great place for people who enjoy some level of control while also wanting some level of structure provided to them. I enjoyed liaising between a global parent and an operational local entity. I know some people think “coordination” is just administrative but it’s my superpower. I would not have left middle management if it were not for my toxic boss. I am an IC right now and while it is less stress, it also feels boring to me.

      1. This is helpful to hear. I think I’m similar – I also like coordination and facilitating things a lot. I’ve sometimes thought about whether I should go into product management. I also like being able to advocate and plan for my team though. Do you think you would like to be in upper management at some point?

        1. I had wondered that in the past too about product management but what I have learned is that depending on the company, it can be a very back office function with relatively little impact. In my current company for example, product management accomplishes very little and they’re always the first to be let go in a layoff. I don’t think they’ve been empowered sufficiently to do their roles well but I think that’s the case with a lot of companies. I think it best to stay near the core functions which could be product management in some companies, just none that I have had experience with.
          No, I do not want to be at the tip top such as the c-suite. I was one layer down and that’s as high as I enjoyed. Too many decisions in the c-suite and the politics felt pretty intense, air was pretty thin. Basically palace intrigue. I was happy to advise the c-suite. My mentor suggested that I give it a try at a small to midsize privately-held company with less drama, so I may give that a try when my kids are a bit older.

  3. The unpopular opinion thread was so fun yesterday. Should we do a Friday secrets thread?

    1. I’ll start: Almost no one in my life outside my family knows that I’m secretly a Disney adult. I am totally embarrassed by it (as a single, childless mid-30s woman who likes to think she’s relatively “cool”) yet absolutely love it.

      1. Adorable. I really love when adults are ridiculously enthusiastic about things. A very serious academic told me about his trip to Comic Con and it made me like him more.

        1. I don’t know about Comic Con, but I am pretty sure Dragon Con is filled with otherwise serious people

      2. I will admit that I used to judge Disney adults. Then I read something asking why I would begrudge anyone who finds joy in something that harms nobody. I do not have an answer, I am ashamed of my former judgment, and I hope you put on your Mouse ears and have a wonderful time on your next trip.

        1. I kind of judge the money aspects of it, like spending so much money on merchandise, tickets to the parks, cruises etc.

          But that’s a Me thing, and probably fueled by families in our extended circles who complain about groceries and new cars etc being so expensive, and yet they go on those expensive Disney trips sometimes multiple times per year… But yeah, to each their own, I guess.

          1. I think there is real harm in all the ‘stuff’ both from an environmental perspective and from a questionable labor perspective. That said being a Disney adult without a collection of sh*t is totally fine, you do you.

      3. You and my husband, though he’s not 100% secret about it. He’s a rock musician who gigs every weekend, but his favorite place on earth is Disneyland. He’s very active in Red dit groups about Disneyland.

        And no, he does not play Disney type music in his band. He would think anyone who suggested that was crazy and had poor taste haha.

      4. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying the rides and characters and food and atmosphere, but I admit that when I went to Disney for the first time recently and saw adults speaking to characters like they were real people who’d met them before (“Hi Belle, I’m back, do you remember me?”) I was more than a little freaked out.

        1. I think it’s really weird for adults without children to wait in line to meet the characters and talk with them. Somehow it’s different if you run into a character walking around and ask for a quick photo.

          1. yea, and I also think it’s crappy to the kids. Like the lines are long enough without adults. On the Disney cruises you can’t sign up for character meet and greets unless someone in your group is under 18, and I wish the parks had that rule too.

    2. I am taking a low “maintenance dose” of compounded semaglutide. Not even my husband knows. If you looked at me, you might judge me as one of those Real Housewife types who took it for vanity or to lose 10 pounds. I actually lost about 50 over the course of 10 years and have been suffering and white-knuckling to keep it off. This drug has has liberated me from decades of food obsession and disordered eating and I finally feel normal.

      1. I hope this comes across the way I intend it:

        You’re doing great. You did the slow and steady route, and you understand that white knuckling is exhausting. It’s good that you know food obsession isn’t normal. Many people assume that their normal is normal, and that’s not the case.

      2. Good for you! Glad you made a decision that benefits your mental health. Idk why we shame people for taking weight loss drugs.

        1. I really think some of it is just propaganda from insurers who don’t want to pay for them!

      3. Good for you! My two cents on this is that it will stop being something shameful once people don’t have to feel like they need to contort a doctor into prescribing it for them. I would like to try it but am too much of a rule follower to get it right now.

      5. Good for you! I am taking compounded Tirzepatide for weight loss. I now realize I was far too fixated on food. These drugs are useful tools for those who need some intervention to make our efforts successful. I too finally feel normal.

    3. I was recently unexpectedly diagnosed with OCD, it completely rocked me. No one knows except my bestie, not even my DH.

      1. I have OCD. I hope that as you process it, you feel seen and like a weight is lifted. These thoughts and actions can be so embarrassing and debilitating, and I remember weeping when I realized it wasn’t “just me”. I am a happy, healthy mother of four…I have bad times still, but just the knowledge of WHY has been liberating

        1. Being ‘too good’ and having ‘too much’ integrity. Apparently doing the right thing all the time and having a deep fear of doing wrong is not normal. It’s not a choice, it’s a compulsion. Plus it’s actively harming my life, following the rules when everyone else is looking out for themselves naturally results in being taken advantage of.

          1. You mean, like you can’t lie? Can you give me in an example in which it can interfere with your life?

          2. Yes I can’t lie, but I also can’t do immoral things even in private. For example I will go without items rather than purchase from Amazon or things that come from forced labour. I won’t ever put myself first and I don’t have the mental gymnastics most people use to justify things.

        2. Curious as well if youre up to sharing.
          I’m a skin picker, and Ive tried so hard to break the habits in the past with no luck.

          2. Check out https://www.bfrb.org/ for information on skin-picking, hair-pulling, and other body focused repetitive disorders (BRFBs). It is the best resource I have found. Related: I wonder whether anyone is researching whether the “shut out the noise” aspect of some of the weight loss medications might transfer to BRFBs.

    4. My husband and I have no intimate relationship because he’s no longer attracted to me and we’re both going to avoid discussing it for the rest of our marriage.

      1. Aww, honey, I’ve been there. It wasn’t easy. I chose to stay for reasons but you might want to consider alternatives — if counseling won’t solve this. Life is too short to live without intimacy if there’s an alternative. Either way, sending you hugs and moral support.

      2. Curious if you’re attracted to him?
        I think my girlfriend is in this situation but didn’t share details. She just asked to come stay the weekend and cried on the couch for a day or so. It was heartbreaking to me.

      3. I was in this situation and I think he was never all that attracted to me. We are separated now and it’s likely over.

        It’s weird how much easier it is to sleep in a bed by myself than next to someone who isn’t attracted to me and twists himself into knots to avoid intimacy.

        It’s not a great situation, but I was losing my mind. My work and parenting were suffering. This was surprising to me, but it is what happened.

      4. There are men out there who would be wildly attracted to you just as you are. No judgment, no recommendation, just stating a fact.

        1. I’m the Anon at 11:15 am. All I’m saying is, when we separated and word got around as to why, I got a lot of double entendre “Haitians are eating the cat” memes in my DMs.

    5. I started Botox at 29 due to a crease that was starting to form between my eyebrows. I’m 36 and fairly young looking and am otherwise very low maintenance about my appearance, so no one would guess it. This came up in a conversation with my friend and a bunch of her friends that I don’t know as well but seem a little judgey and my friend went around the table asking everyone if they had ever tried botox and I said no. I felt super weird and guilty about lying about it and kind of wish I hadn’t, to my friend at least.

      1. I started botox at 29 and I’m also 36! But other than that we’re opposites, I basically introduce myself as “Hi, I’m Sara, I love Botox!”

      2. I have been the first in my extended friend group to do a lot of things, including

        1) online dating – a LONG time ago!
        And
        2) Botox

        In both cases, when I talked about it, everyone thought I was crazy. And now they all do both of the above! So there you go.

        Getting Botox is incredibly common now, so don’t feel embarrassed! It doesn’t need to be a secret.

    6. I’m an atheist living as part of a religious community. I have dropped some of the more extreme outward observances, but I would be beyond the pale in my community if it was known I don’t believe in God.

      1. I’ve been in your position and am so glad to be outside that community now. There are still times when I have to pretend or at the very least be vague about my personal beliefs, but they are far apart and less important and I am glad for that.

      2. You didn’t say what religious community you’re a part of, but having lived in small southern towns where chuch is not only the religious, but also the social center of the community, I think it’s more common than one might think. Or at least common enough for people to not think that deeply about the supernatural aspects of the religion without going so far as labelling one’s self atheist/agnostic.

      3. Oof I was you many years ago. It was very freeing to finally set down that burden and live my true life. I realize that leaving the community isn’t really possible for everyone so sending big hugs and support your way.

      4. Hugs, I went through this. FWIW I dropped the practices very passively, like did not announce or make any kind of big deal about not believing what my community believed. I let them have rituals and even participated in some of them (sacrament, etc.) knowing that it meant something to them and I was fine doing it because it meant nothing to me. Like if you want to baptism me after the dead (Mormons) I really do not care since I don’t think it does anything, but it does something for you. After I read a few books that were documenting people who lived with other cultures as part of anthropological studies,I started to look at going to my childhood church as an anthropological study. Helped keep me in a more relativist attitude – their truth is not my truth, neither is wrong, which definitely helped me maintain relationships while fading away from the religious aspects.

        I have some cousins who didn’t do it that way, and were much more openly honest and loud about leaving the church/having different beliefs and it seems to me it causes a lot more drama and heartache then it’s worth, but It must have felt important for them to do it this way and I can respect that even as I wouldn’t take that path.

    7. I’m avoiding the dentist because I had such a horrible experience last time. They did gum scaling and the technician (a man, surprise surprise) told me I “shouldn’t” be feeling pain or discomfort and was really dismissive and heavy-handed and I was literally drenched in sweat and shaking by the end of it. I *know* it’s terrible but I’ve always had really good teeth (literally zero cavities) so I’m dragging my feet because it was a nightmare.

      1. You need a better dentist! I was totally afraid to go to the dentist for years, because my childhood dentist was one of those dentists that poo-pooed pain. I love my current dentist, who does a lot to make things less painful, and I go twice a year with absolutely no dread.

      3. Wow–you described that so, so well. Like it’s kind of triggering reading it. I had an ortho (male) removed my braces and I felt exactly the same way–was drenched in sweat and shaking and even felt a little light headed when I got out of the chair. Such a helpless feeling. I recently had my retainer wire behind my teeth come loose and I had my regular dentist reattach because I’m so freaked out about ever stepping back in that office again.

        Please go see see another dentist. If you’ve had zero cavities, chances are the cleaning will be light. Even talk about the experience so they know to be extra gentle.

        It’s horrifying there are people out there who will be so dismissive of pain. I’ve gone through colon cancer surgery and a brain hemorrhage in my life, and I’d still take both again hands down over that ortho visit.

      4. I’m so sorry. This is not okay at all. I currently drive an hour to see a dentist who is educated, honest, and caring and a hygienist who is gentle and skilled. They exist, but my difficulty finding anyone good any nearer to me says something too.

      5. Ooh that’s awful, what a horrible dentist. I hope you find a new one, but I totally understand how it’s hard to make yourself go back. A couple years ago I had a bad headache and I went to the dentist anyway and it turned into a migraine while I was sitting in the chair. The first time back was SO HARD to make myself go, and ever since then I really kind of dread it.

    8. I was addicted to online p * r n for several years and had no idea it was even an issue.

    9. I have osteoporosis but haven’t told anyone except my husband since my mom would make it about her. A few weeks ago, my mom told me she hoped I die young, because being old is difficult. When I challenged her that she was telling her own child she hoped they die, she doubled down.

      My IQ is around 174 – 179 (multiple tests). Though my childhood wasn’t great, and I’ve supported myself since I was 14, my career is going well and we are probably in the top 2% in terms of assets, I feel guilty that I should have done something more.

      1. Just wanted to say I feel for you on the osteoporosis. I am 35 and recently found out I have it and it rocked my world. It was a while until I started telling people but it has been so helpful – I was shocked by how many other young people have it and how supportive everyone has been. I have learned a lot and am taking a lot of action to turn things around and hope that the next dexa shows some improvement.

          1. Just did a dexa with my trainer to track muscle mass and he noticed my bone mass was low so then repeated a proper dexa by my doctor. Never had a fracture or symptoms so was so shocked. I do have a lot of the risk factor though (low BMI, wasn’t much of a meat eater prior to this so calcium was low, too much dieting as a teen/in my 20s)

      2. I know that my IQ is at or above the 99.9th percentile because I know the cutoff for the elementary school I attended, but I do not know or want to know the exact value. I was a lazy student until grad school; now I would probably be diagnosed with ADHD, but that wasn’t a thing for girls back then. I chose to attend a lower-ranked local graduate program in a field that wasn’t my favorite because when I went back to school I was already married and settled and didn’t want to drag my family all over the country pursuing a top-tier Ph.D. and an academic career. My job is fine and contributes to social justice, but I am intellectually bored and constantly struggle with guilt and regret over not fulfilling my “potential.” I have similar regrets over music. I was supposedly a very talented musician and was quite successful as a teen, but gave up my primary instrument after college because of performance anxiety and am now limited to amateur performance in a secondary area. I often wonder why I was given the intellectual and musical “gifts” but not the accompanying gifts of self-discipline and confidence necessary to use them.

        1. There’s a reason the term ‘twice exceptional’ exists. People rarely have very high IQs in a vacuum, it usually comes with something else (ASD & OCD for me, but yay I guess I’m a genius).

        2. Most of us do not live up to our potential. Whatever that means. It is because we are human beings. And that is ok.

          Sounds like you are doing amazing in life. Since you are focused so much on numbers, having a successful educational career, a spouse, a family, a job that contributes to society, a hobby that makes society more beautiful, and financially secure.

          None of us have it all. None of us. And when we have a mother like your mother… well, it makes me admire you even more for thriving. I hope you have considered therapy, as there are amazing things we can do for anxiety, and hopefully help you find peace.

        3. I hope you can find some outlet for your boredom and creativity.

          Our society is wildly individualistic, and it’s clear to me that I do wildly better when I have the kind of structure and support around me that is easier to find in academia than outside of it.

        4. I have a 2e kid and my husband isn’t diagnosed but almost certainly is 2e as well. I defer to him on raising my 2e kid and his best advice is that gifted people are just interested in lots of things. Just because you are or can be good at school doesn’t mean you need to be! Be an amazing travel expert or go nuts at comic con.

      3. Anonymous @11:21, your post really resonates. I’m very good at what I do and my work has benefited many people. Now, for Reasons, I don’t need to continue doing it to support myself. And I’m feeling guilty about wanting to retire early. Some part of me feels like I really should keep contributing for another 10-15 years because I can and it would be selfish not to. On the other hand the work is hard and stressful and I feel like I’ve “earned” the right to retire, so to speak. So I’m very torn by complex & contradictory feelings. I don’t have a solution, just commiseration. And also, my mom once told me that if abortion had been legal she would have had one, thanks mom. So I feel proud of succeeding and thriving despite having that type of parent and you should too! Maybe we’ve both earned the right to give ourselves some grace.

    10. My MIL has went from being a close friend 6 months ago to hating me and both her kids; like cutting off all communication except when she occasionally pops up to send hateful messages. She is just so mean to everyone who she used to be close. It’s a wild flip and feels so sad and like a mental health crisis, but no one knows what to do about it. Her kids (DH and SIL) were going to talk to her, but she found out about the planned meeting from going through my FIL’s text messages and flipped out and now it’s worse than ever. We all used to be a close knit family, and it feels like she’s at war with all of us and it’s just so sad.

      1. Could this be dementia or Alzheimer’s? My grandma is viciously mean and it’s because of her dementia.

        2. This was something DH and SIL brought up with my FIL. She also has another medical condition that SIL in particular wonder could be causing it and my SIL practically begged FIL to go with MIL to the doctor appointments and speak openly about it. FIL is acting crazy overwhelmed about it all and I have no idea if he’ll follow through. It’s very hard – it’s like the situation where you definitely feel like you should do something, but she is an adult and appears to be sane, and hating your kids isn’t illegal or a reason to force someone to get care.

          To the honest some of it is how she handles conflict and is personality driven – like she has went through periodic periods where she will do the silent treatment on certain people, but not usually everyone all at once. Like I think she’s done 4-5 months of angry silent treatment to me once, and then another time for a couple of weeks. She’s not a particularly kind person, but we have had many years of good family life…but yes I know that silent treatment can be emotionally abusive. We are growing very very strong emotional boundaries (honestly have come a long way in the past 6 months), but those don’t become strong overnight.

          1. Oh wait . . . she’s capable of giving an angry 4-5 month silent treatment, and she’s done it multiple times with different people, and everyone knows this is the kind of thing she does? Her family may have gotten used to that over the years, but that patterns points to someone who is VERY emotionally unhealthy. The whole family probably has deeply embedded patterns in place to try not to trigger one of these anger seasons. Including your FIL, which would make taking action now very difficult for him.

        3. It could also be an asymptomatic, raging UTI. In older people you sometimes don’t see what we think of as the classic symptoms. Instead you see crankiness, moving on to meanness, moving on to batsh!t crazy.

      2. Wow. This does sound like a mental health crisis. That’s a sudden change, in a short-time frame, even extending to her own children. Something sounds quite wrong.

        1. For sure. The extension to both of her kids, who she used to be the fiercest defenders of, is wild and new. Two weeks ago she returned all of their childhood things that she had – like their school stuff, etc. Which may be a normal thing to do if you’re moving, but since she’s not (that we know of) it felt like she was trying to make a weird point.

      3. This exact thing happened to my grandma when she first developed dementia. She drove everyone away. She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.

        1. How was she eventually diagnosed? Like if that’s what is happening – it totally could be – it feels awful to not try and do something. I just don’t even understand how we’re supposed to actually help her right now.

          1. We (the kids) had to take my father to the doctor… multiple times… until he allowed a doctor that he trusted to do the appropriate assessment. We warned his doctor ahead of time what was going on – I think I sent an email. We started with the primary care doctor, who my Dad knew well and trusted.

            Sometimes the kids have to step in if the spouse cannot manage this.

          2. Sorry , I’m a different poster than 12:23. My parent had a mental health crisis affecting his thinking/behavior.

        1. ugh. my FIL seems extremely overwhelmed with it all, blamed my SIL for stirring everything up with my MIL came at her a month ago and my SIL didn’t let her son/their grandkid spend the weekend with them. He eventually did listen to DH and SIL’s concerns and seemed to agree that MIL is really angry at all of them and this is new. But idk what he is doing to actually improve the situation or take action; he isn’t sharing that if he is doing anything – only how hard all of life is for him right now. This is very on brand for him.

      5. I could write such a long post on this. We ran into this type of issue with my FIL. He was eventually diagnosed with FTD. It’s a type of dementia. Bruce Willis actually has the aphasia variant of this dementia so it’s becoming more well known, but behavioral variant is also common with this disease. Things that helped in the early stages 1) A compiled written list documenting behavior changes for the PCP (PCP originally passed smaller issues as possibly depression, a written list they couldn’t ignore helped) 2) Neurology referral. I really really hope that’s not what your MIL has. There are some other odd things that can happen like UTI’s can cause dementia like behavior changes, a good PCP would double check on. But if there is a small chance this is what is going on, there is comfort in having answers.

        2. Huh. MIL has kidney disease, diagnosed a few years ago after many many years of UTIs and kidney infections. She already has a neurologist due to a pre-existing condition, appts every 6 months.

          All of this is exactly the concerns that SIL was yelling about a month ago and they (FIL and kids) were going to do a big meeting (intervention of sorts, although no one was calling it that) and then it all got shut down hard by MIL when she caught wind and now SIL and DH are no longer welcome at their home.

          Very large sigh.

          1. That’s so frustrating. I’m so sorry your family is going through this. My MIL denied my FIL had changed or had a diagnosis for easily a year. For quite some time she was even letting him drive his car around which blew my mind, given he had failed cognitive function tests and he had more than one dr advise to stop driving. We got a diagnosis about 2 years after his symptoms started.
            If there is any consolation, the effected person really has no control or awareness. There is a possibility if this is dementia, a big sit down really didn’t change anything for your MIL or make her aware something has changed. That’s what forced my husband and his sibling to document specific behavior changes on paper and give it directly to a PCP so my FIL couldn’t intervene.
            I tend to go down rabbit holes when I’m trying to understand something new, so listening to Podcasts like “Remember Me” after his diagnosis really helped me wrap my head around it.
            Biggest hugs, especially as we go into the holiday season. That’s always the toughest.

          2. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. It’s so hard to imagine. My FIL likes to blame menopause, but that doesn’t happen forever and people do not cut off their entire families due to menopause. My SIL and I have pledged to each other we’ll drag each other to the doctor if we ever go through this.

            Yes, we have been somewhat dreading the holidays since July, although I still had hopes it would be more normal by then….doesn’t look like that will be the case. We were going to straight up leave (vacation) for the holidays, and then DH changed his mind. I’m following his lead and being supportive of whatever he wants to do since it’s his side of the family.

          3. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. For what it’s worth- HIPAA means that medical staff cannot relay information to family members who aren’t patient approved but it doesn’t mean that family members can’t relay information to medical staff. So your husband/SIL could call the neurologists office and leave a detailed message with the changes.

      6. See a doctor. Everyone is talking dementia- and it could be- but this happened to my grandmother and it turned out she had a massive brain tumor pressing on her brain causing the behavior! It was removed, tested and was benign, and she was immediately back to her normal self! It was WILD.

    11. I am dating a Jewish man in secret because some of my best friends would shun him for dating outside of his religion so I don’t want to introduce them.

    12. I have spent my whole life being the smartest person in the room. At my new job there are three people who might be smarter than me and it is terrifying.

        1. Eh I’m not that poster but as someone who tested as exceptionally gifted, I am the smartest person in most rooms. It doesn’t mean others don’t have valuable contributions and I’d argue that IQ is actually pretty low on the list of factors that contribute to work and life success. But people with 99.9th percentile IQs are the smartest people pretty much everywhere they go — it’s just math.

          1. Once I had a psychologist tell me I wasn’t that smart after administering an IQ test and literally holding the results which said I was in the 99.9 the percentile. Bitter insecure woman.

          2. See a doctor. Everyone is talking dementia- and it could be- but this happened to my grandmother and it turned out she had a massive brain tumor pressing on her brain causing the behavior! It was removed, tested and was benign, and she was immediately back to her normal self! It was WILD.

          3. Anonymous at 2:26 pm, I’m sorry that happened to you. I have also had a jealous and insecure therapist take her garbage out on me, and it sucked.

            All I can offer is this: I’m not in charge of how other people deal with their insecurities. I am in charge of how I treat people who are more or less gifted than I am, and I’m able to choose to be the person I want to be.

        2. Not the Anonymous at 1:36 pm, but, depending on her circumstances, she might have been.

          If your life is an upper middle class suburban education, great college, great graduate school, and a field that attracts brainiacs in an area of the country that attracts brainiacs, no one is always the smartest person in the room. In fact, no one is ever the smartest person in the room, because there’s a multi-way tie for first.

          That isn’t universally true, especially if you’re in an area with a brain drain. (There is a vicious cycle of brain drains causing more talent to leave.)

          The OP’s problem is that she should have long ago migrated to a much bigger sea, rather than hanging around her little pond. If you have to choose the first time to not be the smartest person in the room, you’re far better off with that being age 18 when you start at a top college, or 23 when you start at a top grad school, than age 35 when your company hires on intellectual rock stars.

          1. It’s the big fish small pond, small fish big pond saying.

            You just haven’t found the big pond if you’re always the smartest person in the room.

      2. Welcome this as a learning opportunity. You will quickly see that being the smartest person in the room does not mean you are the most valuable person in the room. There are 1,000 traits I would take over someone being undeniably brilliant.

      3. It might help to identify “smart, how?” The kind of smart that can quickly analyze something? The kind of smart that can read a room and understand how to communicate to it? The kind of smart that can understand how to navigate a complicated social situation? The kind of smart that can handle massive amounts of data? The kind of smart that can accurately forecast social trends? The kind of smart that knows how to handle transitions and grieving and help people know what to do in them? The kind of smart that understands tiny children and how to help them grow and develop? The kind of smart that can deftly negotiate a tricky stand off between powerful people? There are probably some ways in which you’re still the smartest person in the room, even though someone has a higher IQ than you, and there are probably some ways in which you were never the smartest person in the room.

        Signed, a person who thought for most of her life that “smart” = “IQ test smart” and “school smart” and “intellectually intelligent” smart. And then she started discovering areas in which she was . . . not smart.

    13. I’m transgender. I’m “stealth” — no one in my office knows. It’s NYC, I know nothing bad would happen to me if they did. But every time I get close to sharing it with someone, I never do for some reason. So that’s my secret.

      1. hugs to you friend. thats a big journey, and I hope you continue to find peace and joy in your identity and safety (a community or confidant or just inner knowledge).

  4. Do you think it is better to give notice on a Friday or a Monday? It will be a long notice period, and the last day will be the same regardless of when I tell them, so no real issue about time getting ready for my departure. (No need to respond about getting walked out early or whatever. That truly does not apply here, though I could be told I am free to leave sooner if I can wrap things up, which I cannot.)

    1. All things being equal (and they probably aren’t) – I’d do Friday as it gives the manager time to take in the information and think about it. On a Monday there might be the feeling of needing to immediately start transitioning which could be awkward/disruptive.
      That being said, when you’re around and the manager is available is a much bigger factor to me, as well as if you’re speaking in person.

    3. I think Friday morning. Let people absorb the news and hopefully be ready to start working on your transition on Monday. I gave a long notice period before going to grad school and it was largely fine.

    4. Depends on how you feel. Would you spend the weekend worried about giving notice, or worried about how your boss is going to treat you on Monday?

    6. Will it be a surprise to your boss? If so, I’d do it Friday so there’s some time away from work to process. But if they already have it on their radar, then do whatever is best for you.

    8. Agree with Friday. I feel like it’d just give some things time to settle before having to come in the next work day.

    9. Do it after you’ve taken your personal belongings home. Even if you think you need to give a long notice, be prepared that they don’t think you need to give a long notice.

    10. I don’t think it matters if you’re giving more than two weeks. If your last day will be a Friday and you’re giving exactly two weeks I’d probably try to give notice on the Friday 14 days in advance.

    11. I think I gave notice on a Tuesday when I was giving a long “I’m going to grad school, leaving in 3 months” – I don’t think day of the week matters when you’re giving extra time. There was lots of time later to plan actual transition meetings

  5. I’m in a travel heavy role, and on my current project I have a few hours each night in my hotel room with not much to do (I’ve more than exhausted exploring the local area, I don’t love my team so don’t want to grab dinner with them). At home, I have a really active social life and many hobbies, so this is a bit of a change of pace for me!

    I don’t really like TV or movies, and I already workout and read before work. If you were me – what hobby would you try / what skill would you learn with this time?

    I am someone who is always down to try new things and is never bored (there’s always something cool to do or learn!!), so I have some things i’ve been doing but curious as to what others do on trips?

    For example, I usually do a paint by numbers or an embroidery project at night while listening to a podcast. But, I was exploring the local Walmart last night (the only thing to do after 7PM here!) and decided o expand my horizons… but everything Icould think of was not hotel room or travel friendly.

    1. Sometimes I save up “laptop chores” like researching a new fridge or booking flight tickets to do on work trips.

      I like puzzles so I’ve brought small ones with me.

      I travel somewhat regularly to an area where there is not much to do. I try to recreate things I would do at home. Sometimes I get a manicure or pedicure while there.

      1. Take a photo of the picture on the box cover, and put the puzzle pieces in a zip loc bag, so you don’t have to tote the jigsaw puzzle box with you. Try to avoid super-big jigsaw puzzles, unless you stay in a hotel room with a huge desk or table surface, or, alternatively, bring a felt cloth that is specifically intended for jigsaw puzzles and that you can put on the floor and then roll up with a half-solved jigsaw puzzle inside and pack away when you check out of the hotel room. Enjoy!

    2. Read a book! Grab a few from your local library before you head out for your next trip

      2. +1 Working out isn’t something that’s “done.” If I did stretching and yoga in the morning in my hotel room, then I do cardio in the evening. And good luck prying my colleagues away from the pool and sauna, if there is one. I love hotel gyms because they are a place away from all intrusions, and I’m not someone who works out much at home.

    4. Crochet can be pretty travel friendly. You can bring hooks on the plane and tiny scissors. Granny square projects are travel friendly, as are amigurumi/little dolls.

    5. My friend travels like you do and has been doing Duolingo. She enjoys it.
      When I traveled for work, I loved trying local restaurants, going for walks and I like thrifting and always thought it was an interesting way to get to know an area. As far as hobbies, I used to just set a goal for myself and chip away at it, training for a run, or working through a new certification, reading everything written by x author.

      1. Same. I’d have no trouble just relaxing with a few extra hours in my hotel room.

      2. Watching TV is so passive. I like to watch a little bit but I definitely go long periods without watching anything at all.

        1. I like my NFL team, but if it’s not football season I easily go several weeks without turning on my TV (or streaming on another device).

          My parents have a beach house, and I split my time 50/50 there in the summer – I don’t even know how to turn on the TV there (which I learned because my great uncle asked for help last summer and I realized I had no clue – we’ve had the same TV / cable set up there for several years).

      3. I’ve never liked movies and I got out of the hobby of TV a few years ago and never really went back to watching much? I watch my NFL team religiously (though that’s also social for me) and catch my MLB and NBA teams when I can, but that’s for like 15 mins here and there – I don’t sit to watch a whole game.

        If anything, I tend to watch mini series – but a 10 episode show could take me 3 months to watch… and I can’t tell you the last time I did that.

        If there’s something I”m actively interested in, I’ll watch it but I don’t like watching TV just to watch TV. I’ve traveled 5 of the last 6 weeks and I have only turned on my hotel TV once (to watch a game).

        When I’m not traveling, I watch the Bachlor(ette) series with my girlfriends, but that’s more of an excuse to get together and hang out than anything else. Ditto watch parties for presidential debates or SOTU or anything like that.

        I spend a lot of time on my couch scrolling on my phone reading here or looking up something interesting on Reddit or a blog so its not like I’m some sort of virtuous screen free person!

      4. I’ve never liked it – my mom could tell I was sick as a kid if I was okay with lying on the couch and watching TV all day – otherwise i got bored after an hour or two.

      5. +1

        OP, you just mention a few of the most mainstream, dull things its possible to watch. Turn on something you are unfamiliar with! Exercise some intellectual curiosity about shows for niche interests or different markets. Treat it as a sociological exercise or a way to build empathy. I particularly love watching foreign language TV and the local news while traveling, to understand where I am better.

        1. I mean I’ve tried lots of TV, I just don’t love it – there’s always something that I’d rather be doing because it’s more interesting to me. I’m much more of a doer than a watcher!

          I’ll sometimes throw on a fun sitcom as background noise (Parks and Rec). I liked Band of Brothers a lot and the mini series on Theranos and Anna Delvy. Didn’t like the Pacific. Liked but didn’t love Masters of the Air.

          I’m very intellectually curious, but I prefer other mediums – reading, podcasts, museums, etc.

      6. I relate to OP on that. I get sick of the TV and the noise after a while. I used to have a 75% travel schedule and after a while everything on TV is total crap.

        1. I think most of America does.

          There are also homes where the TV is on all the time. Those drive me crazy (I have to visit one to see family) but it’s really common. I’ve met lots of people who always have it going.

    7. When I used to travel, I used to go to a class at a yoga studio (or whatever I could scrounge up) or a walking trail. I have painted in hotel room before, too.

    8. Thanks for the replies thus far, unfortunately truly everything here closes by 7PM at the latest (sole exceptions being the Walmart, the McDonalds, and the two restaurants – both of which close by 9). So, my normal work travel things to do (pedicure, check out the local attractions (I love finding the little local museum or the world’s largest ball of yarn), check out cute shops or a walkable downtown, try different restaurants, try to find live music or go to the local sports game) are off the table. There are no fitness classes here, sadly. The outdoors in this area is great – and I am outdoorsy, but sadly it gets dark too early to explore and hike after work.

      So, really am looking for things I can do in my hotel room.

      My hotel doesn’t even have a gym, but I picked up some weights at Walmart so I am doing strength training here and fitting in the occasional after-dark run. My kindle is well loaded, and I do ready for about 30 mins a day which, after a long day of reading at work, is all I enjoy doing. I also do Duolingo and the NYT games every morning with my morning coffee.

      On a pervious work trip I learned how to blow out my hair with a round brush (since I don’t travel with my Airwrap), on another I did a 30 day yoga challenge, and now I’m enjoying my paint by numbers as mentioned.

      I don’t have a lot of down time at home to just do things – I am very social and have lots of out of home hobbies, so this should be a treat of time to just work on something fun or interesting to me… but I’ve realized that most of the things I’d like to do aren’t travel friendly.

      1. I travel with watercolor supplies and make cards and postcards to send people. Water color pencils, brushes, and paper travel well. And you just need water and a paper towel to make some really nice art.
        I often just find paint along tutorials on youtube for inspiration and practice.

      2. What about taking an online course like a Master Class or through Khan Academy? Buy a Sudoku or crossword or coloring book and work your way through it? Is there a “hotel room cookbook” you could work your way through?

        1. +1 online courses. it’s been a few years since I took an online course (I used Udemy) and I recently remembered how much I enjoyed them. I want to get back to be doing one at all times.

      3. Since you mentioned NYT games, are you doing the full size crossword? I would start doing that if you haven’t. There’s no way to blow through it quickly.

      5. If the city is safe enough to do after dark runs in, maybe check out one of those websites that let you do a “run all the streets” challenge? CityStrides is one, but there are others. Basically, you just try to…run every street in the city. You can also walk them. It’s fun! And it gives this type A brain a sense that I’m completing something.

      6. How about:
        *Learn a new craft (knitting, maybe?)
        *Learn a new language (Duolingo)
        *Prioritize checking in with friends or family on the phone
        *Start a novel or memoir (writing, not reading)
        *Can you get involved in an online side-hustle?

      7. I grew up in an area like this which is why I read so much now. Maybe try to find games that you can play online with friends? Like scrabble or something? There are apps where you can color as well so that’s packable. In a place where people have to drive like 50 miles to have things to do, a lot of people watch tv or go to church or school activities. That’s usually about it.

    9. I have a hobby blog, where i write about random things in my life- like stories from my childhood, things I like to eat, favorite pens, life dilemmas, books I read. Kind of like water cooler level of personal information. I know blogging is considered a little passe, but I’ve found a nice little community there.

    10. Don’t sleep on open swim time at the local rec center. I am also a morning workout girl, but a relaxing set of laps after work loosens up any tension in my body and primes me for sleep.

    11. I wish i had your energy! Can you learn to needlepoint, crochet or knit? There also might be some organizations through which you can write cards to the elderly or something along those lines

    12. How do you manage to fit in reading and a workout before work and have energy left over in the evening?!? When I’m on the road work is usually at least 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and is so intense that I am completely drained at the end of the day and have no energy for anything else.

      1. I am a high energy person – I often feel like I’m literally buzzing!

        I work roughly 10-11 hour days while traveling. I always stay as close to my work site as possible so no commute. I need ~ 1.5 hours in the AM to workout, read, and get ready (approx 30 mins for each activity).

        I make sure I get enough sleep, eat as well as I can while on the road, exercise, and drink plenty of water. If I do that, I feel great and have lots of energy.

        1. So, after work I usually have ~ 3 hours to kill. Once I’ve tried all the local places to eat, I usually just eat in my hotel room (lots of bagged salads + a pouch of tuna, “healthy” frozen meals, sandwiches), unless I want to go somewhere again.

          So, currently I work 7:30-6 or 6:30. I get up around 6, have coffee and read / Duolingo / NYT, do a strength workout in my room, then get ready – first meeting of the day is literally in the hotel lobby.

          I have ~ 3 hours at night. Even if I grab dinner out, I still have ~ 2 hours.

    13. Commiseration. You sound similar to me in terms of interests. I once did a 6 week project in rural WV. I talked to my mom on the phone a lot! I bought some puzzle books (different types from the NYT). Can you start holiday shopping online? Planning holiday menus or travel?

    14. I’ve been doing word search/crossword puzzles lately. Thats easy and cheap to pack and you can get them at walmart if you run out while you are on the road

    15. How do you feel about paint by numbers?

      Or… hear me out, lego kits. They are contained, many of them are very complicated and time-intensive. If you keep the directions and pieces, you can pass them on to kids in your life to do after you. Like puzzles but 3-D.

      Do you like writing? Would you consider something like the Artist’s Way or something else to foster creativity?

      1. I absolutely love paint by numbers. I’m not artistic but always found crafting fun, so it’s perfect.

        And since the kit is self contained it’s been perfect fit travel. Just want to change it up a bit

    16. I would spend that time learning a language, working on my novel, researching/starting a side hustle (etsy shop selling digital products is my latest), or volunteering. I write donor thank you cards for one charity and do virtual ESL sessions for another so very easy to do anywhere!

        1. Sure! I found both of my current activities through the webs*ite volunteer match by filtering for remote projects with flexible schedules and found a couple local charities looking for help. I do watch (too much) TV so writing thank you cards to donors for a local children-focused charity is a nice way to feel productive during that time. And then I spend an hour a week doing a virtual session with a local adult literacy group, working 1-1 with their students. It’s been great and both were very easy to sign up for and start. I had to go to a physical office to pick up the thank you cards but the training and volunteering for the literacy project was all remote so you could find something based in your hometown if your travel location doesn’t have anything.

        2. Maybe a local senior center or assisted living facility would be interested in volunteers to visit with seniors in the evening.

    17. Any interest in geneology? You’d be amazed at what you can find on ancestry.com, and that can lead to all kinds of other rabbit holes, particularly history

      1. Great suggestion. Ancestry.com is a fascinating endless rabbit hole. I could easily do 2-3 hours every evening

        1. Adding: one year I created a booklet for my dad for Christmas summarizing what I’d learned about our ancestors and family name and he loved it. I created it electronically then had it printed and bound at a print shop.

          Another idea for evening hours: create a photo book on Vistaprint or wherever and have it printed as Christmas gifts for friends/family this year.

    18. Could you catch up on phone calls with friends and family? I would LOVE to have several hours each night to reach out to folks by phone. It can be helpful to schedule a phone call or two in advance, so you aren’t impromptu catching folks at a bad time.

  6. I’m almost 2 weeks out from a C-section, which went smoothly, and my biggest problem now is bad gas pains before using the bathroom. Some of them are severe enough to make me wince or double over. Of course I’m going to mention this at my two week follow-up next week, but I wanted to post and ask for any recommendations for short-term relief. I took the stool softener for about a week and it worked well on that front.

    1. Have you started Gas-X pills? If they are safe for use while nursing (if you’re nursing) I’d start there. I always take them after surgery along with a stool softener. That and fiber (plus metamucil if you can stand it) will help.

    2. I took fiber and stool softener for about a month after each of my kids were born bc it took that long to feel ‘correct’ for bathroom time.

    3. Keep taking the stool softener. Though if it is Colace, studies say it works no better than a placebo. I’d personally take 400-600 mg magnesium citrate or miralax.

    4. Walk as much as you’re able. Moving around helps keep the insides moving. Beyond that, continue with the stool softeners. Your insides just had some pretty major trauma (even though the surgery wasn’t *on* your intestines, they still got handled and moved around) and are still a bit sensitive.

  7. For those of you who went to non med/law grad school, how did you decide to go? Was it purely for the career results or because of interest in the subject? How do you feel about it in retrospect?

    1. Interest plus career – master of public health degree for me. I had a great experience but specifically because I managed costs heavily so it didn’t cost me more than $25k for a two-year program at a top 5 school. I got in-state tuition and worked as a TA every semester for further tuition remission. I think the costs would have outweighed the benefits if I had gone to a private school. That said, I did LOVE the field (still do) and it directly led to my current career.

    2. Purely career. I love learning and loved K-12 school, but I do not like academia and I don’t feel that it translates particularly well to my field. My career requires a lot of research and writing (which I love) but I don’t care for academic research and writing.

      If I wanted to dig deep into something because of an interest in the subject (and I do this quite often), I would never go to grad school for it, but rather do it on my own.

      I’m glad I have my Master’s but holy heck I hated doing it. I did it part time while working, so I’m very gad that I don’t have any debt from it. I chose my program for purely practical reasons, but I ended up really hating the program too. I felt like there was a large disconnect between the program and its goal and the students and their goals and I don’t feel like it prepared me all that well.

    3. Just a note that unless you’re independently wealthy, the ROI on most grad programs besides law, medicine or business just isn’t there. Maybe excepting a practical psychology degree to become a therapist, but I put that in medical adjacent.

      1. Oh I’m just asking this out of interest! I do think my non law/medicine grad school worked out pretty well – but it was a combined CS + something else program, 2 years, good school.

        1. I think this poster is not talking about science advanced degrees? As I agree with you that in my arena my graduate degree in a Biology subdiscipline was essential. But these programs tend to be funded.

        1. Financially definitely worth it. (I have mixed feeling about advanced practice providers in our current healthcare system though. Definitely a need and have an important role! But I think they should be used much more as physician extenders than they currently are.)

      3. You normally don’t have to pay for a PhD, and get a small stipend for teaching during grad school. You’re not going to be a big earner (unless you get an engineering PhD and go to Google) but you don’t have massive debt, so I think it’s a fine ROI. And if you do want to stay in academia you normally live in a pretty LCOL area so it’s easy to live comfortably on a modest salary.
        -From a family of academics

    4. PhD in genetics. I graduated with a degree in microbiology and my options at the time (late 1980s) were teach, pharmaceutical sales, work in a lab in industry or academia. I discovered that the pay for a lab tech in academia was about the same as I’d get through fellowships as a grad student, so I decided to go to graduate school. At the time, it was fully funded – I got a tuition waiver and enough of a stipend to live (frugally) on.

      I did a postdoc, but did not go into research. I worked in biotech for a little while and then transferred to administration in a government-like situation. I like my job pretty well. And even though I didn’t do the traditional post graduate track, I’m happy I got my PhD, I think it opens a lot more doors than a BS or even MS would have.

      But the key thing is I didn’t pay to get my degree. I don’t know that I’d pay to get a PhD in any field, honestly. The ROI is… challenging.

    5. I went to grad school directly after undergrad – started as a PhD student in chemistry but left with my MS after I passed my candidacy exams. My career goal was to be a corporate lab chemist, and I observed/was told during my internships that to be anything more than a lab tech I’d need to have an advanced degree. In my experience it was very true & I’m glad I got an advanced degree but also that I didn’t finish my PhD, as I’ve since switched careers.

    6. Interest. I have a public policy degree and worked in the field while I did the program. I didn’t *need* it, but I liked the classes and it didn’t hurt me to do. That said, I had in-state tuition, an income, and a partial reimbursement from my employer.

    7. I graduated from college in 2010 and there were no “real” jobs to be had. I worked in coffee shops for two years (while applying to HUNDREDS of jobs with no luck) so I started applying to Econ programs then realized I’d rather be at a public policy program. I loved the education/learning aspect of it, and also I have no doubts my career trajectory wouldn’t have taken off without it. My only regret about it is that I didn’t do the dual MPP/JD program the school offered.

    8. I have a master’s degree in public policy on top of my law degree. I really wanted an economics degree but did not want to pursue the Ph.D. track for Reasons, so I chose the most quantitative public policy program I could find and took all my electives in economics and econometrics. (The only way to get a master’s in econ in the U.S. is to start a Ph.D. and not finish.) I got the master’s so I could switch fields and become an evaluation researcher. I had an assistantship and was in-state so the master’s degree didn’t cost much other than the opportunity cost of working full-time. The law degree cost more because my law school pegged scholarships to the tuition in the first year and then jacked the tuition waaaaay up the next couple of years.

      If I could go back and do it over I would have looked for a fully funded Ph.D. program in economics, which was a realistic possibility given my stats and recommendations. I don’t generally recommend that people pursue an MPP. Most MPP graduates I’ve encountered have weak quantitative training, and salaries with just a master’s are low.

      1. There are stand alone masters in Econ programs, but far fewer of them than PhD programs.

        1. At the time when I was applying to grad school my undergraduate professors told me I would have to go abroad if I wanted a master’s.

    9. I did a cost benefit analysis. Cost of degree x time to completion x income potential x my likes and abilities. This led me to choose an MBA in Finance. My company paid 100% for an MBA, it was the highest income potential of what I was considering and I love spreadsheets and analysis. I also thought about a psy d. but the cost would have been +100k, it would take 4 years and the income potential was only average. Plus you have to hustle to get business in private practice which I wouldn’t be good at.

    10. Stem PhD- it was that I was working in science and I knew I wanted to be a scientist and everyone I knew who was a scientist had a PhD. I honestly loved grad school, though I might have done a few things differently in retrospect.

    11. PhD in Psychology. Always had an interest in the subject. Best decision I ever made – I am now tenure-track faculty member at my university and have my own private practice (where I and two other psychologists I hired see patients). I always joked in high school that I want a job that I “like more than watching Gilmore girls” and I feel like I have that. I also make almost as much money as my husband who works in private equity, absolutely love what I do, and have very flexible hours which is great as a parent.

    12. I have a Masters in educational administration. I needed it for the type of career I wanted to have. I enjoyed my program well enough, but fundamentally I was there for the piece of paper and the networking opportunities, not as an intellectual exercise.

      I’m lucky to have had a solid, well-regarded but not super elite program (like top 25 not top 5) in my hometown, so I lived at home and did it as cheaply as possible instead of going for one of the tippy-top programs in the country. If I was paying off $25k+ in debt I think I would feel much less positively about it.

    13. I started my program because there was an education stipend at my employer and I didn’t want to miss out. I ended up hopping over and taking a job directly with the university, so my degree was paid for!

      I have a Masters in Accounting, which segued into a government job. Looking back, I would have missed out on so many opportunities without the additional degree.

      I think ROI makes the most sense if you’re seeking a pivot, ineligible for a promotion without it, or if your employer is funding your degree. Debt is always a gamble, so it is essential to know what your risk factors are before beginning a program.

    14. MPA and I chose it because of interest and career. It definitely was worth it. I’m a consultant and probably would have hit a wall without a higher degree.

  8. I ordered the Banana Republic Factory Store sweater featured here yesterday, in a brightish blue. What items have you seen, or what brands have you discovered, from this site? I promise I am not Kat in disguise.

    I have been hanging out here since the beginning. Does anyone remember The Skirt from Nordstrom?

        1. Nordstrom still sells the halogen seamed pencil skirt. It looks so frumpy to my eye now. I used to love them. I hate how suggestible that makes me to trends and social media. Either something is good or its not right? Who cares what others think, but evidently I do vey much. UGh.

          1. While I do not disagree about the issues with trends and the impact of social media on chasing the look of the moment, it is the nature of fashion that it evolves. The hoop skirt was the height of fashion at one point and people looked great in them – that does not make them appropriate for today. And someone in 1815 who wore the fashion of 1785 was going to look ridiculous. When it comes to fashion a look can be unflattering on a specific person (I will never look good in yellow; I do not care how trendy it is or is not) but what looks “good” is very much dictated by what is current

            “Frumpy” is a term I hate because people tend to use it to refer to women of a certain age or body type. Nobody has ever called a 25-year-old “frumpy”. But wearing clothes that are out of date signifies a lack of attention to self-presentation that can reflect badly on the wearer in some contexts.

            And to the person who asked what “The Skirt” was, it was the term we used back in the day to refer to a specific seamed ponte skirt from Nordstrom. Think a thick, knee-length pencil skirt.

    2. I think I got over to Gap Factory from here. I order most of my cotton sweaters from there now.

      I never had The Skirt. It was too short on me. I’m 5’10” and mostly leg with a very high waist, so it was well above the knee on me. I like an at the knee or below the knee skirt, which is hard to find when you’re tall.

  9. I’ve fallen into some bad habits over the last couple of months, like checking my phone way too much, not exercising regularly, eating food that’s not at all nutritious, and am feeling very bleh because of it. I need a hard reset. Other than just trying to grit it out for a couple of weeks, does anyone have tips for getting back into better habits?

    1. I’d focus on adding healthy habits rather than subtracting. Punishing myself never works for me. So go to the bookstore or library and get something really juicy to read, eat an apple with breakfast and a banana with lunch, book a walk with a friend. Use social stuff to crowd out the phone usage.

      1. Yes, small habits that make you feel good >>>>> forcing “breaking” bad habits for me, too. Loved the books Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg and Feel Good Productivity by Ali Abdaal for this vibe (although the Abdaal book could’ve been a blogpost!).

    2. I signed up for yoga teacher training to shake myself of a similar rut. I wanted to do something that forced me to put down my phone. I stopped eating garbage because it didn’t feel good to eat deep dish pizza and then go practice asanas. It worked, but now I am done with the training and feel myself sliding back into bad habits. I am looking for a new health or fitness goal that forces me to be off my phone but also one that doesn’t feel obsessive (i.e. I am not going to train for a marathon). Suggestions welcome.

    3. Make it fun, not grim. Cook healthy food you like to eat, do a kind of physical activity you enjoy (for me that’s something outside, but ymmv). If you’re busy with all of that, there’s less time to doomscroll. If you’re the kind of person who’s socially motivated, make plans to go for a walk or hike or take a class with someone or invite them over for a healthy dinner.

    4. The podcast Note To Self had a series of episodes (based on a book) called the Bored and Brilliant Challenge that had a series of challenges to help reset phone use. Not so much for the sake of getting off one’s phone, but rather more to learn how to lean into and be okay with the discomfort of boredom. I liked hearing about the studies and science behind why I should stop being so attached to my phone.
      Note to Self no longer runs, but they’ve done a lot of episode on how we live with technology and for me hearing science backed strategies really helps.

    5. I’m a baby steps person. If I make too many changes at once, none of them will ever stick. I find that when I’m working out regularly then I feel more motivated to eat better. I would try and ease back into the exercise – even if it’s just a couple of times a week.

      Try and include a fruit/veggie with each meal. Keep a water bottle handy so you can drink water throughout the day.

      The phone thing is tough for me too. I love reading and do that on my Kindle instead of using the Libby app on my phone.

      1. Agree on picking one thing to start with. I noticed earlier this year that my general activity level had diminished. I set a goal for 8k-10k steps a day for a month. The range gave me flexibility, and setting the one month goal helped me be consistent.

    6. Maybe trying out a “Soft 30” challenge would be something good to look into? If you google it, a ton of trackers pop-up for it.

  10. Vicarious travel planning? I’m thinking about a trip to Italy and Switzerland next summer with my husband and two kids, who will be 6 and 9 at the time. We’re thinking of flying in to Rome, out of Zurich, with a stop in Tuscany. I think we’ll mostly go by train, other than renting a car for Tuscany. Any recs/tips/thoughts??

      1. Not OP but it’s really great with kids. Lots of fun nature and animal stuff, trains, castles, chocolate and cheese everywhere. It’s on our family’s short list (with Italy, Spain and Portugal) of the European countries we like the most and we’ve been to many.

        It is expensive compared to southern Europe but no moreso than Scandinavia.

    2. How set are you on Italy? 2025 is a Jubilee year and the crowds in Rome (and by extension Tuscany) are going to be even more grim than usual.

      If it has to be Italy, how many days will you have? That will impact a lot of my advice.

      1. This is a real thing, my sister living near Rome already completely declined a family visit this year.

        1. Good to know! I had no idea. We may need to rethink the trip. We had been planning for 10-14 days.

        2. Would you say this extends to (1) the rest of Italy, and (2) fall (September) travel? We just booked flights to Naples thanks to a price drop, with the idea being a few days in and around Naples, Pompeii, etc. and the rest either Amalfi coast, Ischia, Sicily, etc.

          1. Yes, all of 2025 will have inflated prices and big crowds all over Italy. Rome will be the worst for obvious reasons, but the prices we saw everywhere were nuts.

    3. No specific advice but love this itinerary. I would take the train from Rome to Pisa, there is a direct tram shuttle from the Pisa Train station to the Pisa airport where you can rent cars and it’s easier to get onto the highway.

      After Tuscany, train Pisa to Milan. Arrive morning and you can store your luggage and walk around a bit and then there is a direct Milan – Zurich high speed train.

      Or look into nightjet sleeper trains. My kids LOVED sleeping on the train at that age.

      Look into activities like pizza making or touring a pasta factory as that’s the kind of thing my kids remembered most. Viatour is a good place to poke around and get ideas.

      We also do ‘gelato every day’ when in Italy. The single scoop sizes are quite small and the kids loved the idea of gelato everyday and would debate what flavours they would try. We don’t do much soda at home but a cold coca-cola is easily available everywhere and got us through a few moments of hot/tired/grumpy kids.

      1. Adding that it can be HOT in July so if you can go as soon as school gets out in June, it will be more bearable. Tuscany has great beaches if you want to cool off after Rome.

    4. Go to the gladiator school on the outskirts of Rome near Via Appia! We did that with my 8 yr old this spring and it was amazing. You can book tours via Viator or book directly on the website. You can combine this with a visit to the aquaeducts and/or Terme de Caracalla (ruins of Roman baths).
      In Rome and in Florence there are good museums about Leonardo da Vinci (the one in Florence is very hands-on, with replicas of Leonardo machines that you can climb/move etc).
      I think you should definitely try to see one or two of the bigger museums, like Uffici and Vatican Museums. Book a guide and/or do the kids’ tour. We are very much into art and history, and we leaned into kid-friendly activities during our 12 day trip – but seeing the artworks of Michelangelo and others while we were there was a non-negotiable for us.

    5. We did a great trip from Zurich to Milan with our son in July 2022 when he was 8. The trip was amazing. We moved approximately every two days, all by train and packed very light. Our path was Zurich-Lucerne-Wengen-Zermatt-Lake Como-Milan. Wengen was my favorite; Zermatt was my husband’s favorite. Lots of great hikes and gondola rides.

    6. We did northern Italy in July this summer and had such a good time! However, it was HOT. Milan was our least favorite stop overall. We really enjoyed Bologna, Modena, and Parma. If either of your kids would enjoy seeing lots of Italian sports cars, the National Auto Museum in Turin was fun and there are some specific brand factory and/or museum tours around Bologna and Modena.

    8. We’re taking our 7 year old to Switzerland next summer, flying into and out of Geneva and spending a little over two weeks there. Other than visiting a friend in France for a few days, we haven’t nailed down our itinerary. I think I’m leaning towards 2-3 days in Geneva and 3-4 in each of Lucerne and Interlaken, with a couple day trips. I’d also like to see Zermatt but I’ve heard Interlaken is better with kids and I want to have time for some non-mountain stuff.

      But yeah the Jubilee is a big thing in 2025 that complicates Italy travel. We opted not to go for that reason. If you go to Tuscany, I highly recommend the agriturismo Al Gelso Bianco. You can do a day trip for a pasta making class (they’re amazing with kids) or you can stay overnight. We did the pasta class a few years ago and going back for a longer stay is high on our list.

      And +1 on gelato every day (or even twice a day) in Italy. There’s a reason Italy is my kid’s favorite country ;)

  11. Does anyone have any favorite resources for journaling? My mind has been all over the place lately and I feel like journaling could help but I need a little more structure than just free-flowing writing.

    1. What about looking up some journaling prompts online? I don’t have a fave but a lot have been good.

  13. Has anyone done their primary care through MDLive? DH and I are considering because there don’t seem to be primary care physicians locally who are taking new patients.

  14. I posted back in June wondering if I should get the RSV vaccine while pregnant, since it wasn’t technically recommended for pregnant women delivering outside of RSV season. I was thinking my baby could just get her own this fall.

    The response was unanimously not to be dumb and to get it. I’m coming back to say THANK YOU because my pediatrician’s office got just five doses this year, which they are saving for preemies, so my baby would’ve been out of luck. Now she’s relatively protected and I myself have the vaccine protection for the next couple seasons.

    Moral of the story: get all the vaccines offered while pregnant. I don’t know why I was so in my head about it.

    2. I’m due this month and got the RSV vaccine, but there was a lot of scary chatter online about why I shouldn’t. Thank you for making me feel better about getting it!

  15. Any reviews of the new Bobbi Brown lines Jones Road? I love Bb and am interested to try but I’d have to order online.

    1. As a longtime BB fan I was disappointed! The Jones Road Miracle balm that is heavily advertised did nothing for me. It had a waxy, hard to spread texture and barely showed up on my skin. They eye pencils were not soft and pulled at my eyelid skin.

    2. I like the WTF foundation, although I had to get used to the dewy look.
      I dislike the Miracle Balms, so many have glitter or shimmer and that’s not me.
      I like the brow pencil and the eye pencils but the other poster is right–if those eye pencils are cold, they are not soft at all.
      I did get an eye shadow that’s a really good neutral for me.

      1. Counter point – I love the Miracle Balm. It is perfect for adding subtle color to my very pale face and I do not notice any glitter. There is a learning curve (it needs to be tapped on) so it took a while to get the hang of it.

        I do not care for their pencils. I find that they do not go on smoothly. I like their eye shadows since I have sensitive eyes and they do not irritate them.

        The one thing I will say is that I found on-line color selection to be challenging. I was in NYC and went to the actual store, which made a big difference.

    3. Not a fan. It’s greasy and fussy to apply. I like the regular Bobbi Brown line. I think Jones Road is all social media hype.

    4. Yes! All the women in my family use the Jones Road balm and love it. I read some reviews on here earlier this year and skipped it, but got to try the container my mom bought and was pretty sold.

      This is the only makeup I wear, so my expectations were both very high, and not based on much to compare, if that makes sense.

    5. I love the miracle balm but wait until the holidays when they do the minis. I have drier skin and wear very little makeup so target audience.

    1. There is an article in the WSJ today about how the anti-abortion movement became a cause without a candidate. I’ll summarize it as people ignored their beliefs to support a reprehensible candidate who said he was in their side, but didn’t read the fine print…on their side when it’s advantageous for him. Cynically, they got what they deserved.

      My feelings on abortion are complicated. I hope someday for a world where abortion is rare because they aren’t needed, and that we’ve successfully focused on all the things we can do to make that so. In the past four years, I’ve moved to being pro-choice because I believe we need to love and care for each other. The pro-life community seems to be more focused on demanding that people conform to their views than caring for the person standing in front of them, and that’s not what I think living a good life is about.

      I know many people on this board aren’t religious, but personally, I don’t believe God is saying it’s OK to say, do, and support horrible things and people because they are anti-abortion. The God I believe in would say love the person here today, and do the right things to achieve your goals — for example, I believe that the morning after pill must be easily, confidentially, and cheaply available to everyone, and I support that in my state.

      Don’t bother to come for me because I don’t meet your thought purity test, I don’t care.

      1. Hey, I’m not coming for you. I welcome anyone who engages in ongoing thinking about the realities of our -complicated and frankly bloody- reproductive lives. I work in abortion rights but I don’t believe in purity tests as a political strategy- I believe in welcome mats and not gate keeping.
        Abortion will always always be needed even if every form of contraception is available in every household for free. Abortion has always existed and always will. The government is never better able to decide a person’s reproductive needs than that person themselves is- that’s my North Star.
        Could

      1. +1 I’ve said for years that that I’m a single issue voter on pro-choice/Supreme Court composition.

    3. I rarely watch tv but had it on for a few minutes last night. In that time, there was a political ad targeting abortion, immediately followed by an ad for an otc erectile dysfunction product. Madness.

      Vote like your life depends on it. It just might.

    4. I’m someone whose life was saved by a D&C following an incomplete miscarriage. I cannot believe this is happening.

      Vote like your life depends on it because it literally does.

  17. Where are we getting sheer black tights from in 2024? My social media feed is flooded, but do I need to spend > 25 a pair to get some that won’t run? Are they delicate like black hose was? And how can avoid shiny ones? And are any sheer nude-for-me tights worth it or will I just look like a figure skater?

    2. I’ve always been partial to Mondor, technically a figure skating brand but they’ve branched out into fashion tights which are hard to find in the US. There are lots of sheer black tights available at Discount Dance dot com, and the Capezio knit tights wear like iron.

    3. Does Hue fit you? They have some. And the Assets by Sara Blakely line at Target is good.

      1. Seconding this. I have three pairs of the 40 denier Hue tights (semi-sheer). They are a bit more delicate than opaques but don’t feel risky like sheer hosiery. They are matte, not shiny (former skater here!). I like how Hue fit. I’m on the cusp of sizes and size up, because I have long legs.

    4. Costco has a two-pack of the Sheertex ones online for less than that price. I’ve never tried the brand, but I know Jean from Extra Petite recommended them one year!

  18. I’ve been given permission by my department to order a footstool to go with my hip friendly ergonomic desk chair. I have a decent budget for this so I don’t need the most budget conscious choices. What we really care about is something that works, is sturdy and will last. It will go under my desk most of the time and adjustable would be nice. What suggestions do you all have?

    1. Wirecutter has a rec for this. I bought their top pick and have been happy with it.

  19. My November is insane and trying to get a jump on holiday shopping. In addition to 3 young adult/older teen nieces and nephews I need to get small gifts for their significant others. Ideally $25 or under – gift cards feel rude as everyone else gets physical gifts. I was leaning towards lipgloss/lip balm sets from Sephora for the girls but I’m stuck on the guy. He’s a HS teacher so maybe a charging station for his desk or a nice coffee mug/water bottle?

    1. If he is a teacher, he probably has all of the coffee mugs and water bottles he would need in five life times. If you do not know him well, I would recommend consumables.

      Or (hear me out here) if they live someplace cold/dry in winter, unscented hand cream and lip balm. I got some for my nephew because he was complaining that his hands and lips were cracking and he said it was the best gift ever. Or cool socks (which was another gift my nephew loved).

    3. Could you do classroom supplies for your HS teacher relative? Do a gift card to target or whatever the local teacher supply is?

      1. Honestly, … this. It is awful that so many teachers have to buy their own school supplies.

      2. I would not do that for a high school teacher unless you know he uses his own money to buy them normally. It’s like buying office supplies for an office worker. Also, HS teachers mostly need stuff like copy paper and white board markers. And yes, he probably has been given many a mug/thermos already. Source – married to a high school teacher.

        Any ideas about what he likes? How about a Universal Yums box or their advent calendar?

      3. My husband is a teacher and has never had to buy supplies on his own, so don’t assume that. But even so, that’s a crappy gift. And yes, if he’s teaching high school he won’t really need many supplies.

        And yes – so many coffee mugs and water bottles!

          1. I posted above at 1:02, and absolutely know that teachers have to do this; my husband did at the school he used to teach at. He’s just now at a much more well-resourced school. (Even there he has been known to hoard copy paper because the school is so stingy about it for unknown reasons). But either way I don’t think supplies that his job ought to be providing would be a good Christmas gift. They might be for a teacher who really loves the self-sacrifice aspect of “providing for my kids” or genuinely can’t afford them otherwise, but I think for my husband and many teachers it would just feel like an assumption that they have no other identity than their job. Like giving cleaning people cleaning supplies, or a housewife cleaning supplies – it might make their life easier but it sure isn’t fun or indulgent in any way.

          2. I was merely suggesting a Target gift card. My daughter may buy pencils and construction paper or she may buy any number of things for herself.

        2. But if they don’t have to buy their own supplies, they can just spend it on something else? I’ve always thought Target gift cards are perfect for teachers: they can use it on classroom things, they can use it on necessities like groceries if money is tight, or they can use it on fun things for themselves. I know we’ve had teachers in all three categories.

    5. I’d go with gift cards because that’s probably what everyone actually wants even though I hate giving them, wine, or consumable foods like popcorn containers, nice chocolates, coffee beans, etc. for both men and women. I feel like all these small gifts just end up getting put into giveaway boxes because we all get overrun with them (maybe I’m projecting too much here). Like, my stepmom has given me four lip glosses this year. Not only do I only use lip balm, but I already had more of those than I could use up in probably a decade because other people have given them to me. The lip products aren’t a one off. I have other examples.

      1. Gift card all the way.

        I got my friend a $40 Starbucks gift card because every time I see her she has an iced sbux drink in her hand. Save was so so happy!

      2. For a counter point, I’ve always liked physical gifts, even when I was super broke in grad school. It sounds like the goal here is to give everyone something to open, not just eg. mail a gift.

  20. Tips on choosing glasses frames that are flattering?

    I’ve worn glasses for 40 years but I’ve never liked the way they look on me. I’ve chosen cute frames that I like at first, but after a year or so I just look tired in them. I feel much more myself when I’m wearing contacts or otherwise sans glasses. But my eyes are getting drier with age, so glasses are the more comfortable option. All that to say, I’m going to need new glasses (progressive lenses, ugh) in the next year or so and I’m putting in some work to figure out a frame that I will enjoy.

    Current frames are a slight cat-eye in translucent grey plastic. I like cat-eyes because they’re distinctive and they add some angles to my face, but on these the lenses are a bit smaller than current style. Coloring – cool/pink fair skin, blue eyes, dark eyebrows, silver-grey hair. I have slight RBF which may contribute to looking tired all the time. I’ve considered blue frames but that feels too out there.

    1. Blue frames are not “out there.”
      I’d suggest that “after a year I just look tired in them” isn’t about the frames, but about how you feel about yourself looking in the mirror, and the fact that you dislike glasses in general.

      Tips:
      The top curve of the frame should work well with the shape of your eyebrow.
      Your eye should be roughly in the center of the frame.
      Since you are sensitive to looking tired or drooping, make sure the frames don’t have a “down curved” or drooping shape. You want something that has more of an up-turned shape.
      Does looking “tired” have anything to do with a genetic disposition to darker skin under your eyes, or more pronounced skin under your eyes? If so, the super-big frames that are so popular right now might highlight your under-eye area in a way you dislike. You might want to go with less vertical height to the frame, to offset that.

    2. Even if you don’t end up ordering any, the Warby Parker app does a really good job of showing how their different glasses styles (and colors) would look on your face. Makes for low-effort experimenting!

      1. oh and noting you have silver-gray hair, I bet having gray plastic glasses contributes to the lack of dimension. A dark tortoiseshell or navy would give you better contrast!

        1. ohhhh, thank you, that is an excellent point. I remember choosing a lighter material over black to blend better with my hair — I didn’t want glasses to stand out and be the most visible thing on my face — but there’s blending and there’s blending in so much that everything’s a mess.

        2. I find dark purple frames work well with my grey hair. Lots of compliments! You could even get a tortoise shell in purple tones

    3. I have gotten good recommendations/opinions from the staff at LensCrafters. They are trained professionals and I appreciate their opinions.

      1. Yes – don’t overlook lenscrafters or pearlevision – OP, find a local shop with trendier staff – they will LOVE finding flattering glasses for you.

    4. I have to wear glasses rather than contacts. I’m pale and choose medium to dark frames. May as well make a statement. My current frames are a dark red but just ordered a backup pair in a dark tortoise. Go to a Warby Parker store in person if there’s one near you. Their frames are much more current than most optometrists’ offices.

    6. The Zenni virtual try on is really helpful when I feel like changing up my frames.

      1. thank you, I need to hear that! I’ve tried to get along without them, but it’s a pain taking my glasses off to see up close. And then even when I wear contacts, I need readers. I thought I was okay with all the changes of age (I’m 47) but this one is tougher than the others.

        1. I went progressive after giving a career-making presentation (checks notes: at age 46) where I needed to take my glasses off to look at people around the table and the large screen, then had to put them back on to look at my own screen and meeting documents. I felt like such an idiot, I got progressives immediately, and have never looked back, 12 years later!

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