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Haaaaaaaaaapy long weekend! Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
This week's weekend recommendation comes from Bloomingdale's Big Brown Bag sale: this lovely, breezy dress. We'd wear it with flipflops to a BBQ party in a friend's backyard, or strappy, heavy sandals for a night out at a bar with an outdoor space. Was $88, now $70.40, take another 20% off with code EXTRA20 to bring it to $56. Aqua Striped Silk Dress
lawyergrrl
No Smalls :(((( This dress is lovely! Happy weekends.
Shayna
Love summer dresses… Although right now I’m ripping through my drawers looking for my most comfortable outfit (which is not stylish) to sit for the next section of the CPA exam tomorrow — when I took the first part I thought I would be smart and layer, but was told that if you wear a cardigan in, you have to keep it on the whole time — :-(
jcb
What a ridiculous rule. I could see making you leave your bags across the room to prevent cheating, but why make you sweat in a cardigan that you could easily place over the back of your seat? Would they really kick you out for removing your cardigan?
Shayna
That’s what the security guy said — They have cameras over each of the little testing cubicles that the security people watch to make sure no one is cheating – I also have to empty my pockets, cannot wear a watch … there’s a whole list!
Anonymous
Same Anon as below here–I also thought the “empty your pockets” rule was ridiculous. I brought Chapstick to all 4 (I’m an apply-every-5-minutes addict) and didn’t get in trouble.
jcb
This is reminding me of the Spies Like Us testing scene – I guess in theory you COULD have concealed microfilm in your chapstick (or fake cast). I don’t see how the on or off status of your cardigan could have any effect though.
Anonymous
I think I wore a t-shirt and jeans for each part (3 in the summer, 1 in Oct.) and never noticed the room temp.–but if based on your first test you think the center will be cold you could try a long-sleeve shirt. It should be enough to keep from freezing, and it’s easy enough to roll up the sleeves if the room ends up being too warm.
Shayna
good idea — when i took the first section I froze from the a.c. but was afraid to leave the cardigan on and sweat to death – thanks for the chapstick note too— I didn’t bring any w/ me last time and my lips were sooo dry (probably b/c I didn’t drink any water beforehand so I wouldn’t have to use the restroom – and lose time going to the restroom down the hall, waiting since it’s a single stall, etc.)
Cat
Question given the cancelled-vacation discussion this week — I’ve been wondering about trip insurance. If it’s even sold for “as predicted, this deal is not closed yet and I’m stuck” situations, has anyone used it?
ceb
Trip insurance CAN be great, but you have to pick the right insurance for your trip. Also, timing can matter. Many policies have a “cancel for any reason” clause if you buy the policy in the first 15-20 days after your first trip-related purchase/reservation.
I use squaremouth.com to help me figure out which policy is best for me. The travel insurance offered as part of your booking with expedia or travelocity is probably not going to do you much good.
ceb
Also, I recently bought a policy that allows a full refund for a work-related cancellation. All this requires is written approval for your trip from your boss, and a written and notarized revocation from your boss at a later date stating that circumstances have changed, and due to work you can no longer go on the trip. Sure I paid an extra $5 than I might have spent on trip insurance, but it is worth the piece of mind considering the unpredictability of my trial schedule.
SF Bay Associate
this is fascinating!
ceb
Wow, that should have been “peace of mind”
lawDJ
Where did you find this policy??? I think sadly this is going to come in handy.
Cat
Thanks for the feedback — I am also very curious re: particulars!
Anonymous
I used the website listed above, and then I narrowed down the list for comparison by sorting by the features that were most important to me (work cancellation, immediate cancellation due to hurricane). I ended up purchasing the Travel Guard “Adventure Travel Package” because it included these features (not because there is anything particularly adventurous about the trip). It cost me $49. I actually purchased the policy through squaremouth.com due to their no-hassle policy, an article I read about the website on CNN.com, and the fact that I had difficulty locating the same package on Travel Guard’s site.
ceb
Not sure why I am listed as “anonymous” but the above follow-up comment is from me .
Eva
A little late here, but does anyone know if the bosses can be at different employers? Thinking of scheduling a trip, but also thinking of switching jobs (nothing really lined up) and I doubt it would be appropriate to take a trip early on at a new job.
ceb
Probably. Here is verbatim what my policy states: “The Insurer will pay a benefit up to the Maximum Limit shown on the Schedule if an Insured cancels his/her trip or is unable to continue on his/her trip due to the following Unforeseen events: . . . The Insured or Traveling Companion is required to work during his/her scheduled Trip. He/she must provide proof of requirement to work, such as a notarized statement signed by an officer of his/her employer.”
Eva
Thanks, ceb!
Moni
I just graduated from law school and also just received my state tax return (federal still to come). It’s large enough that I am considering investing in a designer handbag in the $500-$1,000 range as a graduation present. Thanks to scholarship and savings, I don’t have any debt and have an offer for a job that provides a livable (though not extravagant) salary, so I won’t be pauperizing myself by spending the money. Does anyone have any suggestions for classic handbags within that price range? I would prefer a black bag that doesn’t look trendy, such as bags by Ferragamo, Marc Jacobs, Valentino, Longchamp and Hermes (obviously not in my price range). Also, do you have any suggestions for places to buy online? Thanks!
SummerAssociate
I am totally, completely obsessed with the black leather version of the Coach Madison Carryall. I am trying to convince myself that if I buy it at the end of this summer it will last until I’m a Sr. Partner. It’s actually cheaper than your price range! If you’re looking in the $700-800 range, Cole Haan makes some stunning, classic, versatile bags
Erin M.
I also love the Coach Kristin Satchel.
RKS
SA — go look in their outlets and sign up for emails from Coach. I routinely get 20% off coupons for the outlet. So if you found the bag there for less + coupon, you could really do well.
(If anyone wants the coupon for this weekend, I can try to post a link).
Frump
If you don’t mind getting a gently used bag, I have heard good things about Fashionphile (they were also recently featured in the NYT). They are an online consignment store of gently used (high end) designer bags and I have seen some lovely pieces on there within your price range.
Coach and Dooney and Bourke, though obviously not the highest of all high end designers, make quite a few very nice and sturdy, larger, plain leather options within your price range. I’m very partial to the Alto line of Dooney since they make some beautiful, versatile pieces even below your prices range (so you could even get a brown and a black bag). I think you would like the Alto line especially if you like the look of Hermes, since many of the pieces in the Alto line have that same sort of clean-lined structure. If you were willing to take a trip to a Coach or Dooney outlet store, you’d find even better prices on the same simple leather bags.
Sharon
Oh, no Dooney & Bourke please. Might as well go buy Etienne Aigner. Coach really does have some nice classic bags, though, once you get past all the Poppy and trendy stuff.
Frump
Hm, I am sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences with Dooney, but I have one of their Alto bags and it is quite lovely, durable, and still looks as nice as the day I bought it quite a few years ago. I have another Dooney purse with a slouchier look that I also often carry to work in the summer, and it has held up very well, and also looks and feels very sumptuous. Both my Dooney bags are much better qualitiy than Etienne Aigner, so I am not quite sure what Dooney lines you are buying that make you think they are not nice pieces.
Cat
Agree with Frump. If you skip past the D&B-logo-everywhere rack, they have some very nice, all leather/minimal logo pieces.
SUCL 3L
Also have a D&B (graduation gift) and love it. It’s not a logo-bag. It’s a large leather tote, very simple and the only reference to the brand is a single emblem rather than the all-over logo print. Frankly I find the logo prints (Dooney, Coach, LV, etc.) to be obnoxious – I have no desire to drop a couple hundred dollars to be a brand’s walking advertisement. But that’s not to say that those brands don’t make other bags that are prefectly lovely.
Shayna
I have a beautiful Dooney and Bourke bag in cognac colored leather that has lasted several years, and – many people ask if its new since it still looks so lovely (and is not trendy).
AIMS
Of the brands you mention, unless you find them on sale, most would be over $1000 (insane, I know). I am not thinking of smaller or trendier pieces here (which may be an exception), but about the classic, worth spending the cash on & useful for work bags that it sounds like you have in mind. If I am wrong, nevermind, of course :)
Longchamp is the exception to above. Most (if not all) bags are def under $1000, full price. And, it’s a great quality, classic line that seems pretty timeless to me. Look on their website (where they also let you design a custom bag to your specs, & the bags they sell are often cheaper than at dept stores!!!).
I would say you should go for it if it would make you happy. I got a totally splurg-y bag as a starting law school gift & it made me feel fabulous everytime I wore it. I don’t regret it a second.
I also highly recommend Cole Haan bags, which someone above recommended, and contrary to the comment recommending them, they are usually under $500 (often well under, esp. if you shop sales) so you could get a great bag & still have some money for either another splurge or an emergency stash. Both good things.
I am not feeling Coach lately — I have seen too many terrible logo’d Cs on the subways, I guess. I would avoid — does not feel at all timeless to me (unless you find a great vintage one).
For other recs, I like See by Chloe, & Cynthia Rowley often has nice bags, too.
One note of caution — these bags are often very heavy & you should really look in person & consider what you’re going to be using them for & your lifestyle, etc., before spending a lot of money on one. Also, the helpful part of looking in person is you can see where it was made — always look to see that — if it’s not France or Italy, but China and the like, odds are it may not be worth it; the quality tends to be really inferior, even if the price isn’t (and I am constantly shocked by how many “designers” have started to outsource).
Sharon
Would you consider Bottega Veneta? Not sure if it’s within your price range, but there’s classic for you.
divaliscious11
Not even close on the price, unless she gets a 50%-60% off sale
Shayna
They are beautiful! I’ve seen them marked down a bit on Bluefly.com
Shayna
Amazon has a beautiful Marc Jacobs bag, the “Totally Turnlock Faridah Hobo” http://amzn.to/bfPb2J for $429.95 — interesting but not uber trendy.
jcb
For the more classic styles, Chloe, Tod’s, or even Furla or Cole Haan might have some good choices in that price range. I realized the other day that I have more Furla bags than anything else (possibly bc there is a Furla boutique down the street). I also love Kooba, Botkier and Bulga, and they usually will have some more classic styles mixed in with their trendier items. Don’t get anything too boring, though – I know you want to maximize the potential use per dollar, but if it’s boring you just aren’t going to want to carry it.
CW
I LOVE Rebecca Minkoff bags – rebeccaminkoff dot com. The leather is really good quality, and there are plenty of bags that fall within (what I would consider) the “classic” category, but have a fun twist that makes them more modern.
Lucy
Love those but they tend to be heavy. At least in my experience, which negates the usefullness.
Ariella
I don’t know if this is your style, but I just purchased this bag and love it. It fits manila folders (perfect for taking to a deposition or a hearing), is stylish (I think), and was reasonably priced (sort of…). Anyway, this is also to show you that you can definitely find an acceptable bag within that price range:
http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=477117&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results
C. Z.
I LOVE rebecca minkoff bags too! I recommend them so highly; the leather is fantastic and they’re really great shapes; classic but with a modern bent that sets them apart. I think i’ve mentioned them 2-3 times in various capacities on this site, and I’m so glad to see other people like her too.
divaliscious11
I can vouch for Fashionphile (run by an attorney-actually lawchool classmate), but in your price range I’d look at mid-tier lines like Botkier or Gryson. Or maybe Mulberry. Try Shopbop – they will only send you reputable on-line stores.
Frump
Wonderful to hear your vouch. An LV brown Damier bag from there is likely to be on Christmas wish-list because they have quite a few lovely options for just over $500 (I’ve even seen a couple under).
A.
Avelle – formerly Bag, Borrow or Steal – sells bags as well as rents them. They’ve either never been carried or they are in guaranteed good condition – you can send the bag back if you’re not satisfied. I have bought both – never-carried and gently-carried – and have never had a problem. If you’re looking for a high-end brand, check their “sale” section because you might be able to find what you’re looking for without spending full retail.
Amy
I’ve been looking at some bags on Etsy. They’re not designer but I think they’re pretty classic (and less than your price range).
http://www.etsy.com/shop/paulinacarcach
A.
Wow, those are amazing! Thanks for sharing the link.
ES
Those are beautiful! I never thought to look at Etsy for bags
SUCL 3L
Wow. Those look as good as some pricier designer bags out there!
LawyrChk
I love kate spade and cole haan. I’ve also had a great experience with Brooks Brothers handbags and totes, expecially if you want something classic. I carry a leather BB tote to my office every day; large enough for files but still more feminine than a briefcase.
Delta Sierra
overstock.com -> handbags -> highest price, then work your way down. Their stock changes all the time, so visit a few times to see if there’s anything you like. I’ve shopped here for years, always very reliable.
Anon
This sounds crazy but I recently got a really nice Marc by Marc Jacobs bag and a Coach bag on Ebay–new with the tags still on–for about half the retail price.
AN
Check out LV’s epi leather range – no logos, incredibly luxe leather, durable (I once crushed an epi circular-shaped bag under my business class seat when i extended the seat all the way out and 4 hrs later, it was FINE though I was in a state of shock & awe).
I bought mine for $1000 5-6 years ago, depends on the exact design etc. They usually have office friendly colours too, apart from black.
Frump
Second this. The epis are BEAUTIFUL and so classic.
EK
Just a quick vent. I woke up late this morning, rush out the door, get almost to work and realize… I forgot my jacket. So I go to the suit shop at work and they have no women’s sweaters and so I buy a 90 black linen suit just to wear the jacket, and now I have the most expensive mistake I have ever made.
Did I mention I am not getting paid this summer? And my picture for my badge was surprisingly taken today with my hair a mess. Ugh!
AIMS
Can you try to return it?
Will you ever wear it again?
If nothing else, maybe you can sell it on e-bay & recoup some losses??
Hope the weekend is better for you! I try to look at days like the one you had as getting all my bad luck out of the way. Feel better :)
CFM
thanks :) the jacket I’m going to keep at my desk for emergencies, its not super flattering or anything but its fine. The skirt…. the skirt is awful haha. Maybe I will try ebay.
TK1
Quick question for the law ladies, I just finished my 1L year in a PT evening program and I’m considering attending the ABA Annual meeting in San Fransisco. I live on the East coast so going for about a week or so w/ my husband will run about $2K with airfare and hotel. Did anyone attend these events in the past and find them useful for networking and learning? There is a day for law students to talk to career counselors and a career fair, but I want to make sure it is worthwhile going before I drop all that cash. I also don’t want to travel across the country just to sit in meetings and classes all day, I’d like to do some tourist activities. I’ve attended local events in the area of law I want to practice and had moderate success networking at those.
Thanks ladies!
Kit
IMHO this is a complete waste of money for a 1L. I’ve never been to an ABA Annual Meeting, but as a 1L you need to focus your networking energy on local attorneys to get an internship, then use those connections to get a job after graduation. Save your money and wait until you have an employer who will foot the bill for this type of event.
Elle
I agree.
CFM
agree with this
A
I agree too. While a law student I would attend networking events only if they were local and wouldn’t interfere too much with studying. Save your money.
AIMS
Agreed 1000%
Do not go unless you just want to get to SF.
I went to the one in NY (and I live in NY) & it was a waste of the $75 that it cost to attend. I cannot even imagine how mad I would be about having gone if I traveled across the country to go.
Save your money. Join a bunch of local bar associations (which often have free or low-cost student memberships) and attend their events. It will be far more beneficial, and much less frustrating.
Karen
Totally agree. I have gone to several on my firm’s dime, and it’s mainly just a big CLE-fest. The only way a meeting would be worthwhile is if you were already actively working on a committee – then it would be a chance to meet and network with the other attys on that committee.
I agree that you will be better off focusing on local bar associations, if you want to stay where you are now. If not, then joining and getting actively involved in an ABA committee could be a good move, but you’d really have to work it. Attending this meeting, going into it without knowing anyone, is unlikely to be worth the $.
jcb
agree. I would never in a million years spend that kind of money on attending an ABA meeting. In fact, I wouldn’t even go if the firm offered to pay for it.
jkl
Agreed. Waste of money for the networking, but it sounds like a fun trip if you know people in town or just want a vacation.
divaliscious11
Keep your money and network where you want to work and build a practice….
Anonymous
I work for the ABA, and I can guarantee you this will be a complete waste of money. Just take a nice vacation instead :).
TK1
Thanks everyone,
I was thinking it would probably be a waste of time, but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing out on an opportunity. I am in the local bar associations also and attend some of those events. Thanks for all the advice!
RKS
Ditto on the waste of time. My GC just asked me to go to the career fair before the annual meeting … but honestly, I’m also going to another 10 +/- fairs plus individuals schools so it’s not that unique of an opportunity. Only reason we’re going is to expand our West coast recruitment.
Anonymous
My husband and I are discussing starting a family, but I have never wanted to put kids in daycare. Due to student loans, it is impossible for one of us to stay at home and still afford the basic necessities. I don’t expect this to change anytime soon. I’m 28, soon to be 29, and the clock is ticking loud and clear.
To the working moms out there: Is my dread/fear of daycare unfounded? Do you feel guilty for leaving your kids, especially babies, everyday? Do you think this negatively impacts your relationship with your children?
meg
My husband and I are discussing starting a family, but I have never wanted to put kids in daycare. Due to student loans, it is impossible for one of us to stay at home and still afford the basic necessities. I don’t expect this to change anytime soon. I’m 28, soon to be 29, and the clock is ticking loud and clear.
To the working moms out there: Is my dread/fear of daycare unfounded? Do you feel guilty for leaving your kids, especially babies, everyday? Do you think this negatively impacts your relationship with your children?
KM
I’m not a working mom yet, but I grew up in a household with two working parents and was in daycare essentially from birth through school. I don’t know if my parents every felt guilty about working but I know that I most certainly never felt like my parents were absentee in any way shape or form. My parents made sure that at least one of them made it to every sporting event, etc. and we ate dinner every night as a family. I have a great relationship with my parents (always have) and do not feel like the fact that they worked negatively impacted it. I don’t know if my point of view as a latch-key kid helps you in your decision any, but I hope it does :-)
Blonde Lawyer
That is great to hear. I always thought kids would rather be home hanging out than at daycare but it sounds like you had a positive experience.
SUCL 3L
I think for some kids daycare can be a really great way to socialize them. Growing up, I was an only child, we had no extended family in the area, and my parents didn’t have many friends who had kids. So daycare allowed me to learn to interact with kids my age. As much I remember loving staying home with my mom and dad (what can I say, I was a little spoiled), I loved getting to play with kids my own age.
AN
Whilst I’m lucky enough to live in a country where we have affordable live-in domestic help who are GREAT with kids, my friends have kids in daycare and that hasn’t been a problem at all. My parents worked throughout my childhood/growing up but I never felt I was missing out (they always made time for school functions. etc). Think I became more independent as a result.
SUCL 3L
Don’t have kids myself, but did spend a good chunk of my childhood in daycare. I’ve met many women who think you’ll go to parenting-hell for sending you kids to daycare, but as someone who was actually in daycare I never resented my parents for it. In my opinion, there are two VERY important things to do when sending a kid to daycare. (1) Research the hell out of it. Make sure you send you kid(s) to a good quality place. My parents avoided the big commercial daycare centers (the kind where it’s like 1 adult to 30 kids) and opted for smaller, private ones. (2) Make it a point to have quality time with your child when he/she is at daycare and you’re home. When my parents would pick me up from daycare, they didn’t just take me home and plop me in front of the TV. They made it a point to spend time with me – playing games, watching cheesy kiddie movies, or having dinner together – in the evenings and weekends.
B
Many of the “big commercial” daycare centers, at least here in the metro D.C. area, are much better quality than the small, private ones. There is more oversight, more staff training, more attention to accreditation (e.g. NAEYC), less staff burnout, and lower caregiver:children ratios. And the various rooms enable children to transition from one developmental stage to the next in age-appropriate environments, without changing childcare situations.
In-home daycare can be great, but it can also be awful.
SUCL 3L
Where I grew up (and still live) the big commercial daycares are so-so. My parents did the in-home daycare, usually a SAHM with a child care license watching a handful of kids at one time. I don’t think I ever remember there being more than maybe 8 kids there at a time (except for holiday parties and such). The local licensing agency kept a pretty tight rein on these kind of daycare operations (I have memories of occassional random visits by people from the agency to my sitter’s house).
But, obviously, this all goes back to doing your research. Talk to other parents you know (I’m pretty sure that’s what my parents did) that have sent their kids to daycare.
K
This should be a very interesting conversation…
FWIW: (1) don’t wait for things to be perfect, they never will be. You are not yet 30, so *theoretically* should have no problem getting pregnant. If you do have problems, better to have addressed them sooner rather than later.
(2) If there is no *realistic* choice that allows for a parent to stay home, suck it up and recognize that. You can make yourself miserable thinking that you have some other choice (stay home! life would be so perfect!), when you really don’t. Lots of us are in this situation. Accepting that there is no other good/viable/realistic option for your family helps A LOT with the guilt.
(3) There is no perfect day-care/nanny. Mary Poppins does not exist. No one will care for your child *exactly* the way you would. But that does not mean that there are not good d/c options out there. And even if you find the “perfect” d/c for your infant, you still may need to change d/c at some later time.
I remember feeling horrible during my maternity leave because I felt like, once Baby was in d/c, he would be Daycare’s baby, not mine. I did a lot of crying during ML. But bottom line: my baby is MY baby–he knows that and I know that.
So do I feel guilty taking my child to d/c? Yes and no, depending upon the day. Some days I am relieved to come to work and be a grown-up (no touching, no tugging, and tending to my wants first). Some days (when work is crap), I would rather be with my child. But do I feel guilty that Baby is in daycare? No (see #2, above). This is just the way our family’s life works. This is the best that I can do. This is the best that my husband can do. And I leave it at that.
Good luck!
Kerrie
I grew up with two physicians for parents and was in daycare from the time I was, I think, three months old. (Maybe six months.) I stayed there until I was 4, when I began kindergarten. It was great: wonderful teachers and a lot of kids of all different backgrounds. (The daycare was affiliated with a local state school, so my classmates were the children of students and professors, and some of the teachers were actually education majors and grad students.) I am absolutely happy that I went to daycare, as were my parents. We spent plenty of time together in mornings and evenings, and on the weekends.
By contrast, my sister has always had behavioral and psychological issues. When she was in elementary school, my mom (who earned a lot more than my dad) took off time from work to see if spending more time with my messed-up sibling would be to everyone’s benefit. In fact, it made both of them much more unhappy. That might sound off-topic, but my point is that letting your kids be overseen and guided by competent adults in addition to (not instead of) yourself is normal, healthy, and often for the best.
By the way, I babysat for a wealthy family with two smart parents and three genius kids. The mom (who had advanced degrees from well-known schools) decided it would be best for the kids if she stayed home with them rather than sending them to daycare. (I would still babysit, even if she was in the apartment. It was a weird situation, in my opinion, but less work for me.) While the kids are adorable, they are all kind of socially off, and now that the older two are in elementary school, it’s clear that they’re both having trouble making friends. Not that this is automatically what happens when you keep the kids with you all the time, but, again, the best moms aren’t necessarily the ones who spend the most time with their kids. (When I have mine, I’m going to aim for spending quality time with my kids, giving them room to develop, and making sure they have opportunities to hone their social skills.)
A.
Something similar happened in our family. With me, my mom put me in child care when I was a few months old and apparently I loved it. When my brother was born 2 1/2 years later, my mom decided to stay home for a few years – I went to preschool 3 days a week after she started staying home, and then started kindergarten at 4 (long story). 30+ years later, my brother is barely functional as an adult; I’m fine. My mom swears that it’s because early on, I learned I had to share, go with the program, accommodate other people, etc. My brother had a LOT of one-on-one attention and my mom practiced what is now known as “child-led parenting” with him, where he basically set the schedule, called the shots, etc. While some kids do well with that, he would have been better off in a situation that forced him to relate to other people more. He has a lot of difficulty forming relationships with others (has never even had a serious romantic relationship) and has difficulty holding down a job because it’s basically his way, or the highway. And it’s not Asperger’s or anything like that – I honestly think he just got used to calling the shots early on and that was it. My mom says to this day one of her most-regretted decisions is the one she made to stay home after my brother was born.
North Shore
There are lots of child care options. You have nannies, shared nannies, in-home babysitters, big daycare, little daycare, au pair, etc. Nothing is final — we switched around as necessary, and I went part-time as well. We shared a nanny with another family for awhile, and that was ideal. My daughter had a little friend, and I had my daycare expenses cut dramatically. Start asking around your neighborhood and you’ll find a wealth of options. You need to find the best fit for you and your baby. I do think your dread of daycare is unfounded, although there were some daycare centers I visited that I did not like, so I just kept looking.
Seventh Sister
My daughter started daycare when I got back from maternity leave. It’s worked out very well. The center is near my office, which has its advantages (I can be there in five minutes if she is sick, etc.).
My suggestion is to not immediately write off daycare. There are good places and not-so-great places. My daughter’s center has great teachers, a nice (new!) facility and very little teacher turnover. They do all kinds of fun activities, but it’s not a stress-them-out-with-flash-cards kind of place. It reminds me of my (vague) memories of painting and playing with toys at nursery school. Her teachers are so loving and kind with the kids.
As for guilt, I miss her when I’m at work, but I don’t worry about her safety or her happiness.
Clerky
I am the product of daycare and moreover, many of my babysitters were pretty crappy (i.e. sticking me in front of the TV a lot of the time). And you know what? I turned out just fine. I worked by butt off in high school, went to a top school, and am now a happy and successful lawyer.
I didn’t resent my mom at all, she worked as a secretary and staying at home simply wasn’t an option for her. And even though a lot of my babysitters were pretty bad, I certainly had some good ones as well.
Sometimes I feel that parents overthink all of this (and if I were a parent, I know I would do the same thing!). Your kids won’t blame you for putting them in daycare. They WILL blame and resent you if you don’t spend any time with them though.
js
OP, you didn’t say if it was YOUR debt, maybe it’s all DH’s. But as a cautionary tale to women (or, I suppose, men) who know they want to stay home with kids – don’t take on a mountain of school debt. Pick a cheaper career if it’s going to be temporary and/or on hold for a while. I’ve had countless variations of this conversation with law school classmates and collegues – it’s not incompatible to have a career and kids. Daycare is a fine and healthy option. It IS incompatible to have a career and stay home.
Anonymous
OP here… Kids didn’t seem to be a priority when I started law school at 21. At that time, I looked down upon women who wanted to stay home and raise a family. I was going to be educated, successful and rich. Since then, my priorities and opinions of SAHMs have changed and I realize lawyers don’t make as much money as everyone made it seem. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have gone to law school. Your advice regarding student loans is valid, but too late.
B
I started law school at 28 and had the concerns that j. expressed. Therefore, although I was admitted to top-tier schools, I went to State U. on a partial scholarship, and graduated with very little debt.
It was the best decision I’ve made re: school.
B
I have two boys, ages 13 and 11.
Q:Is my dread/fear of daycare unfounded?
A:Yes and no. There is a lot (a LOT) of mediocre childcare out there, and somehow, throwing money at the situation doesn’t alleviate that problem. On the other hand, there is some very high-quality childcare out there as well, that will enrich your child’s life, and your family life as well. Do your homework assiduously, enroll your child in quality childcare, and your fears will be allayed.
You can also consider a nanny, or a nanny share. We had a great experience with the latter.
Q:Do you feel guilty for leaving your kids, especially babies, everyday?
A: Yes, I felt guilty, but more than that, sad, at leaving my babies every day. I wished (and still wish) I had had some other way to handle that first year or so. If I could turn the clock back, I would stay at home for a full year with each baby (I took 18 weeks off w/each). On the other hand, it would not have been a good decision to quit altogether, and then try to re-enter the job market later.
Q: Do you think this negatively impacts your relationship with your children?
A: No, not at all. My children and I are very close and have good relationships. I don’t think that would be any different, had I stayed at home.
E
My husband and I are both physicians. We are in a financial position that we can afford a nanny, whom we’ve had since I went back to work when my son was 6 weeks. We adore her and she is a wonderful person, and functions as a housekeeper/baker for our family in addition to nanny (I work 80 hours a week b/c I am in training). Some thoughts:
1) I was freaked out going back to work when my son was 6 weeks old that he would think our nanny was his mother. Shouldn’t have worried. He adores her, but I’m his mama.
2) While when they are teeny-tiny I think it would be harder to send them to daycare, there are lots of options (one thing we looked in to was in-home care, which can sometimes in the right situation approximate a more one-on-one, family situation). Additionally, my son is 17 months now, and while we aren’t interested in changing our childcare situation, he’d probably thrive in day care.
3) Add me to the chorus of people who did daycare and was probably better off for it. I was usually in in-home care after school all through elementary school, and it was great. I had lots of friends, and the women who t0ok care of me were loving and kind.
I think everyone agrees that it’s somewhat (to very) stressful to figure out a good childcare plan, but it’s totally doable and very undamaging to kids. It’s definitely not a reason to avoid having kids.
A.
My son has been at the same daycare since he was 4 months old. He’s been there many hours a week and not so many – now we’re averaging about 28 hours a week since I work part-time. He loves, let me repeat that, LOVES his daycare. We’re home now and as we were driving home today he told me he was sad because he won’t get to see his friends and teachers until Tuesday.
Our daycare is through a church and is one of the better ones in our town (I asked around before we signed up on the waiting list). I have noticed that many places, the church daycares tend to be much, much better than for-profit centers. Our center has had incredible continuity of caregivers. My son is in the three-year-old room and 3 of his 4 teachers have been at the center since he was a baby in the infant room. They have some teachers who have been there for over 10 years. IMO, the number-one red flag with a center is high staff turnover. National accreditation doesn’t matter as much as how long the staff has been there – directors and caregivers.
As far as “daycare fears” – I had them too. Let me give you this food for thought, which was given to me when I was torn about putting my son in daycare. In a good center, there are lots of people around – managers, caregivers, parent volunteers – so it’s very difficult for one caregiver to do something to a child without it being noticed. In our center, there are big windows shared by each classroom so it would be really hard for a caregiver to do something to a child without someone noticing – basically, all the teachers and the parent volunteers AND the management would have to be in collusion to hide it. Very different from a situation where one adult is alone with one child, or a couple of children, all day. When my son was a baby, the older ladies in his infant room took care of him absolutely no differently than I would have, and in fact sat down with me before he started there and took detailed notes about his schedule, likes/dislikes, needs, etc. At that time, he was colicky and I was doing a lot of babywearing – so on tough days where he fussed a lot, they would get out a Snugli and wear him around. I trusted them absolutely and I cried the day he got moved up to the next room, those ladies were like his abuelitas (grandmas).
The scariest thing in the world is giving your precious baby to someone and walking away. I don’t know how to make that less frightening or easier. I do know that my son has learned so much at his “school” that I don’t know I would have remembered to teach him. He comes home each week with folders full of art, science and other projects they’ve done. At almost 4, he can count to 50, knows all his ABCs, and can read some words and do some limited addition. Part of that is natural intelligence, part of it is our parenting, but a HUGE part of it is being in a caring, supportive, stimulating environment at his school. I don’t mean to offend anyone with this, but I have a lot of friends who put their kids in a home daycare or with a nanny, and then discovered when it was time for preschool that their kids were not ready because they had been watching a lot of TV. Our school has “movie day” one day a week where they get to watch a 30-minute educational program – that’s it. I have absolutely no regrets about our choice and will be crying like a baby myself next year when we have to say goodbye to the center so my son can go to kindergarten. The best daycares become almost like extensions of your own family – they are people you can talk to about problems your kid is having, they share in your child’s triumphs, and they can help you and your child when help is needed. Good luck. :)
A.
Two things I forgot (as if the first post wasn’t long enough):
– My (working) mom told me this when my son was born and it is the truth. No matter what, your child will always want you, their mother. In the first years they would be perfectly content to be with you 24/7/365. That doesn’t mean it’s healthy for you, or for them. My SAHM friends’ kids cry when they go to the store for 30 minutes. You do what you have to do. Kids are resilient.
– My son being in daycare has not affected our relationship at all. He is kind of “daddy’s boy” – and has been almost since he was born – but we still love and have a great time together. It’s quality, not quantity of interaction.
B
This is a great post.
N
My 10 month old is in daycare. And we have a part time nanny for when I’m in depositions, trial, prepping witnesses out of town, etc. His daycare is wonderful – infant room was 3 babies (he “started” at 4 months, at first an hour a day with me there with him, then more time alone), and was there full time at a little after 5 months when I went back to work.
His center is filled with great teachers and is affiliated with the best preschool in town (DC metro area). All his teachers have been college educated, the school has language emersion, they do baby sign with him, and frankly, they’re better at structuring an educational day than I am. He also has specific developmental goals that they review with the parents every couple of months. The nanny is great – not thrilled that we have to rely on her, but that’s biglaw for you. When we can’t be there she does a good job playing, feeding, and putting to bed.
Two great pieces of advice I have gotten (from lawyer moms – in 40s and in 50s) (1) what’s right today might not be right tomorrow, and (2) don’t feel guilty, you’re doing the right thing if it works for your family.
Daycare is not evil. Some daycares are bad – but you can ferret those out.
My kid’s 10 months old. He benefits more from having mommy there to play in the morning, but not necessarily at night (though we did tonight) and daddy there at night, and the`
N
My 10 month old is in daycare. And we have a part time nanny for when I’m in depositions, trial, prepping witnesses out of town, etc. His daycare is wonderful – infant room was 3 babies (he “started” at 4 months, at first an hour a day with me there with him, then more time alone), and was there full time at a little after 5 months when I went back to work.
His center is filled with great teachers and is affiliated with the best preschool in town (DC metro area). All his teachers have been college educated, the school has language emersion, they do baby sign with him, and frankly, they’re better at structuring an educational day than I am. He also has specific developmental goals that they review with the parents every couple of months. The nanny is great – not thrilled that we have to rely on her, but that’s biglaw for you. When we can’t be there she does a good job playing, feeding, and putting to bed.
Two great pieces of advice I have gotten (from lawyer moms – in 40s and in 50s) (1) what’s right today might not be right tomorrow, and (2) don’t feel guilty, you’re doing the right thing if it works for your family.
Daycare is not evil. Some daycares are bad – but you can ferret those out.
My kid’s 10 months old. He benefits more from having mommy there to play in the morning, but not necessarily at night (though we did tonight) and daddy there at night, and the income and happiness our jobs bring, than being at home with us when it would not worl *for us*.
Emilie
My daughter (almost 4) has been in daycare since 3 months and it has been wonderful for all of us. She’s been in two different centers in that time (we moved), and I’ve been so impressed with both of them. She has learned so much and is very mature and independent. Her teachers are trained in early childhood education and it shows. They amaze me with the things they teach these kids even at a very young age!
Is my dread/fear of daycare unfounded? Maybe/maybe not. It’s a very personal thing. I had no qualms about daycare – I was a daycare kid myself, and have very fond memories. I actually met my maid of honor when we were 2 years old in daycare, and we remained best of friends all through school. How cute is that? My husband and I were very careful to research many daycares and choose the one we loved best. Some are crappy. You’ll know.
Do you feel guilty for leaving your kids, especially babies, everyday? No, at least not anymore. There may have been some guilt early on. However, that was all about me, not her. She’s always been easy at dropoff etc – she loves it there.
Do you think this negatively impacts your relationship with your children? Definitely not. I would be a horrible SAHM – *that* would negatively impact our relationship. Know thyself, and all that.
Ariella
I don’t have children yet, but both my parents worked. My mom took a 12 week maternity leave (she owned her own chiropractic practice) and then they hired a live-out nanny. The nanny was like a grandmother to me, really a member of the family, and I would highly recommend that route if you can afford it.
Even if you can’t, however, there’s nothing wrong with daycare. My cousin (who is now 17, which I can hardly believe) was born when I was 12. She was in daycare full time from the time she was 12 weeks old. She is one of the most mature, confident, and kind young women I’ve known. She also has a great relationship with me, her mom, and our other family members.
I can’t say if your fears of daycare are unfounded, because that’s just anecdotal evidence, which doesn’t equal data. But I can say that there’s no reason to just assume that daycare equals poor childrearing. And I intend to either hire a nanny and/or put my future child(ren) in daycare. Good luck!
K
My kids are with a nanny. I work 4 days/week and have Fridays off, so I am with them 3 days in a row every week. I did look at a daycare when I had my daughter and it was dark and so institutional inside – I couldn’t imagine leaving my little one there. Our nanny is great and for 1 kid it was only $75 more per week than daycare (not including our employer taxes).
Now that I have 2 I feel guiltier about leaving them and feel like I should be at home, but the baby is still with me when I work at home so I don’t feel too bad.
divaliscious11
My oldest was in daycare for 8 months and I think he enjoyed it, as much they can enjoy stuff other than sleeping, pooping and eating, which is what they enjoy the most… (daycare was close enough for me to go nurse at lunchtime etc…) when I got pregnant with my daughter, we oped to go with a nanny, as it was marginaly more expensive (daycare was $1400 per kid, with a 50% discount for the second – nanny was $500 a week) but no packing up the kid and stuff etc…
No guilt. I love my babies, but they were fine without my 24 hour presense. They are now 7 and 8, and great independent and loving kids. Are there days whrn I wish I’d stayed at home? Sure but that didn’t happen until they were in school. I love my job, my career, and my kids have a happy mom. I’d have been miserable at home every day. They know they are my first priority, but they also understand that the things we do as a family, etc… come in part from mom’s income…
Bets
From a slightly different perspective: I used to teach at a preschool. When I have kids, I definitely want to send my children to nursery school. A good classroom is a really rich learning environment, and that includes all the social skills that children won’t pick up if they stay home with you all day. There is a huge difference between the behavior a child learns when they interact only with Mommy and Daddy, vs. the skills they learn negotiating the social environment of a nursery class. We would take our class to the local playground, and you could always tell which kids went to preschool and which stayed home. The preschool kids were better behaved, knew how to play with other children, and often had better language skills. Make sure you pick a good, accredited school with a low teacher-student ration, but don’t beat yourself up over sending your children there. Contrary to popular opinion, I honestly believe that attending nursery school is better for children than staying home all day. You might want to stay home, but as long as your child is happy and loved–and nursery teachers do love their students–they will turn out just fine.
Karen
I agree – my mother in law is a nursery school teacher, and I’m amazed at all the cool projects she comes up with for them and how much thought she puts into making sure they have a good experience. It’s way more than any parent could do for his/her child. (She teaches at a “fancy” place, but I am guessing that any child-centered place with teachers who have at least a couple of years’ experience would also be beneficial rather than harmful.) Ask the teachers to describe some of the projects they do with the children during the year. If they care about their jobs they will love talking about them!
Just pick up your child promptly – that is my only bad memory of being in day care as a child, feeling abandoned and awkward when my single mom got stuck at work and couldn’t pick me up until well after the end of the official child care day. I have lots of positive memories from my day care experiences.
Emily I
I have three kids – ages 6 and a half, 4 and a half, and 22 months. I had my oldest child with one semester of law school left to go. I am very lucky to have what is the best solution for me personally. My sister is also an attorney who just had her third baby. She and I job-shared a clerkship for an state court appellate justice for four years before his retirement. Then, we both found part-time positions with two different local firms. I work in the mornings while my sister watches all the kids (who aren’t in school), and then we switch. When all the kids are in school all day, we’ll both increase our work schedules.
Personally, I would lose my mind without going into the office at least part of the day. I love my children more than life itself, but I am a better mother for working at least part-time. Besides, like you, not working is not an option with all the debt my husband and I have from graduate school.
I realize I am very fortunate to have this situation – my sister and I don’t pay each other, and I leave my kids with someone who loves my children almost as much as I do. Still, I think there are options between staying at home full time and working full time.
When my sister has been on maternity leave, I also found “Mary Poppins” to watch my kids for a few months in my home. Any my other sister uses a terrific childcare center for her two boys who love to go to “school,” as they call it.
It is hard work to find the right situation for you – it may be part-time with a similarly situated woman who wants to trade child care like my sister and I do, it may be full-time with the kids in a wonderful daycare center. But don’t wait for the perfect time to have kids if having them is important to you…there is no such thing as a “perfect” time! And good luck!
JR
Obviously this site leans toward the career woman, but I have to echo what most everyone has said. I have two–almost 5 and almost 3 who have one to the same daycare/preschool for years. They love it and one aspect of it I love is that they have webcams I can check all day and see them. That helps me–maybe more than them, but we love it!
Anonymous
Daycare is wonderful if you choose the right place. If you are ready to have kids, DON’T put it off. With very few exceptions, most of us moms who had kids in our late 30s, like me, did so only after fertility treatments, involving a huge amount of cost, struggle, emotional anguish, etc. Because you see lots of older moms, you may think that having kids in your late 30s is easy. Trust me, its not. I’m speaking for myself and many, many of my friends/colleagues. If you are in a relationship and ready, just do it.
A.
Even people in their early 30s can have problems. I was 28 when we started trying – I had been diagnosed with PCOS 4 years earlier and my doctor was very blunt with me about the need to start trying sooner, rather than later. After a lot of fruitless months trying on our own, we ended up in fertility treatment – it turned out my husband also had a problem – but one thing that made it easier is that I was young, and there wasn’t this sense of “we’re running out of time” that some people have when they’re older, from what I understand. I agree 100 percent that people should not put it off if they can possibly avoid it. I would not have avoided fertility treatment in any event, but if people can, they certainly, certainly should. It’s not a very fun experience.
Denise
I was 23 when we started trying. I didn’t have trouble getting pregnant, but did have trouble with the pregnancies sticking–I had three miscarriages between age 24 and age 28. So I second the “don’t wait” sentiment. (I do have two children, now aged 25 and 21.)
I had always wanted to be a SAHM, and to my shock I didn’t like it at all. I worked PT all through my kids’ early years and went to grad school when my son started first grade. As for day care, my husband’s schedule meant the kids were home with one of us most days, but they would wake up and beg to go to the sitter (an in-home situation). There were other kids there, so it was so much more fun than staying at home!
Emilie
Me too. 6 pregnancies in the last 5 years (one kid, and 30 weeks pg with my 2nd). In addition to the miscarriages, lost one tube along the way too with an ectopic. Things don’t always happen the way we plan!
RR
25 when we started trying and 32 when we finally got pregnant with IVF.
Taylor
You MUST, absolutely MUST know whether your husband will be “helping” with the baby or actually parenting. Is he a true partner? It is impossible to two parents to go full-tilt boogie on their jobs and raise a child. Day care is fine but we limited the hours to 4-6 per day because my husband had his own business so he stayed home in the am with our infant. Later, I went part-time.
There was a huge study a over a decade ago about the day care generation who has had their schedules planned from birth and have every minute of their day filled up with after school sports and lessons. The professors at Princeton lamented that the students can’t think for themselves and DO NOT challenge authority. They don’t know what to do with their free time and do not think creatively. I make an effort to make sure that my son has free time to run around outside with his friends – like we used to do when we were little.
Shayna
I was lucky enough to have a stay at home mom until I was in elementary school… and I can honestly say it was great – she was a teacher so she was also home in the summers.
That said, I know that unless she retires and is interested in watching my children, my kids will be going to daycare – From what I know of my colleagues’ experiences, I can only recommend that you ask for reommendations, read reviews, look for centers with low teacher-to-kid ratios, make sure its NAEYC certified (most are), and for your own sanity, make sure they offer hours later than 5:30! Good luck!
MLB
I was really surprised – my child loves daycare, and our daycare provides opportunities for her that I never could. First, the interaction with other kids is great — she’s learned how to follow instructions, share with others, etc., none of which she would have learned had we had a nanny or had she stayed home with me. She’s learning a foreign language (sort of — more than I know anyway). She gets to paint and listen to some guy play the guitar and listen to firemen talk about what they do — all stuff I couldn’t do with her. I don’t regret the decision to put her in “school” at all — she loves it.
RR
I have 2 year old twins in daycare (since 10 weeks). I love it and have no daycare complaints. We have a really good center with great teachers and little turnover. The kids love it, and they learn so much more than I would ever know to teach them. They get lots of socialization. We don’t have high rates of sickness (even with having two 2-year-olds who generally get each other’s illnesses). I don’t feel even a little bit that my relationship with my children has suffered. On the contrary, I’m the best mom I can be because I’m fulfilling my dreams of being a great lawyer while raising my kids. Also no guilt – but I have never been the mom who needs to be the center of my child’s universe. I think it’s great that they have more people who love them and interact with them.
sk
While I do not have kids, I would like to reflect on my experience of never having gone to daycare. I was raised by a SAHM and my father worked full time as an accountant. I would not have had it any other way, and absolutely will not be sending my kids to daycare. My mom’s attitude was “why have kids if someone else is going to raise them?” and I wholeheartedly agree. I love that my mom raised me and my brother and never worked until I graduated from high school (my brother is older). My mother was always around. This did not make me dependent on her, but rather gave her every oportunity to teach me how to be a capable, functioning adult. There are a number of stories on here of cousins/friends/siblings who did not go to daycare and are now socially inept adults. Who is to say they would have been better if they went to daycare?
What I find very inaccurate in these posts is the depiction of what being raised by a SAHM is. Just because I did not go to daycare does not mean I did not learn social skills. I was in a play group that met regularly, and was often at other people’s houses. This gave not only me, but also my mom a chance to interact with others (adults and children). My mom was not locked in the house all day with screaming todlers. Far from it. In fact, my mom was less stressed. Instead of trying to get out the door and to the office on time, only to pick me up 10 hours later, I was raised in a very calm and peaceful environment because there was no mad rush.
I think the decision is one that should not be taken lightly, and that you should gather information from all points of view. You can always try out either option, and if that’s not working,try the other.
RR
I raise my children. FYI.
To Dye!
Thanks all, for your support yesterday re: my decision to dye my hair!
To answer the prevailing question: no, I won’t be interviewing for a conservative field next year (my senior year in college). I’m hoping to make a career out of the non-profits, and I already know which local organizations I plan to apply to. I have a non-profit internship this summer, and I need to check with my boss about hair dye. If it’s a no-go, I’ll wait ’til August; if she doesn’t care, it will be happening in the next two weeks!
I found the whole debate about boyfriend/partner influence on appearance fascinating. For a lighthearted perspective: my BF claims that if I get to dye my hair, then he gets to STOP cutting his hair! UGH — wanna place bets on who will win this battle?
(Extra credit if you pick me! ;)
Chicago K
Ha! Stop cutting it entirely? lol.
NYC
I think that dry cleaning is fading my black cotton theory suit. Thanks to some comments on corporette, I am going to attempt to wash it myself this weekend, with the Laundress detergent for dark clothes. Wish me luck!
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
I just bought a white blazer (after months of stalking I got it for a third of the original price) and I want to make sure I get as much wear out of it as I can.
So, (1) can a white blazer be worn in the fall and winter (or does it fall under the “Labor Day” rule, and (2) can you ladies provide some examples of when it can be worn in a professional setting?
I have an internship at a City Attorney’s office, but was told (at the conclusion of my interview) that the office was “not as formal” and based on the tone used and a look given, I took that to mean that I was dressed too formally for everyday office wear (I was wearing a full suit and of course I am still going to do the same on the first day). Thanks in advance for all of your help.
SUCL 3L
I’ve never understood the Labor Day rule. It just seems kind of silly to me. Personally, I love wearing white in the winter time. I think it depends more on the weight of the fabric. A linen white jacket would probably be spring/summer only. But if it’s a heavier weight then I’m sure you can wear it year round.
Shayna
I love winter white – but its definitely a different shade than the white white that is the easter-to-labor-day rule — eggshell, to almost cream I would say, in addition to the fabric differences.
jcb
White blazer is fine for my biglaw office. While there is no official Labor Day rule anymore, there is a warm/cold weather practice. In the summer, you wear white whites in lighter fabrics. In the winter, you wear creamier whites, with heavier fabric. As for an example, I wore an ivory wool blazer over a fuscia shell and grey pants for a presentation this past fall. Can’t remember what shoes, but I am sure they made me happy. You don’t see a ton of white blazers around, but I think they are great to have for the occasional statement piece.
Cat
Second this. It’s tricky to find a white piece that looks right in both cool and warm weather. White cotton/linen/stretchy blends for summer (these also tend to be brighter whites); wool/knits for winter (in creamier whites).
K3L
This. You must have two if you want to wear white all year ’round. But wearing it all year is a great thing to do.
K
Ditto. I have a white linen short sleeve blazer, a white cotton crisp blazer (both for summer), and an ivory blazer with a little sheen with black piping for fall/winter.
Karen
If the cut and style is right, throwing the white blazer over a colorful dress (or skirt/blouse in the same or similar colors) sounds like a great not-too-formal summer work outfit.
R
Actually you should probably wear something slightly less formal than a suit on your first day to demonstrate that you received the message loud and clear. Government offices are a whole ‘nother ball game and you want to look friendly and approachable. I would suggest a light colored suit or a dress with a blazer.
WhatToWear
I’ll be working at a non-profit/pro bono law firm in DC this summer and the dress code is business casual (and business attire for meetings/events outside the firm). Since I already know what the dress code will be, do I still need to wear a suit on the first day?
Cat
Yep, sorry. Better on the first day than every day. You probably will be able to slip out of the jacket relatively quickly, though, so just wear a top that works on its own.
Cat
After reading the below advice — thinking about it, if you are not starting as part of a “class” you should be fine on the dressy business casual side. When I was a summer, I thought the safest bet was to wear a suit on day 1 even though I knew the dress code was firmly business casual, just so I wasn’t the only one NOT in a suit (as I would have been).
Eponine
I don’t think so. We’re business casual, and the interns always look sort of awkward on their first day with their black suits and pantyhose. I’d advise to wear conservative/dressy business casual, though – don’t wear open-toed shoes or bare shoulders on day one. A pencil skirt, pumps, and blouse, maybe with cardigan, should be fine.
anon
I totally agree with this. I showed up in a suit for 2 internships in DC when I was told it was business casual and I was needlessly uncomfortable. By the time my 3rd internship came around I had learned my lesson! I just rocked up in some microfiber pants, a twinset, and I was good to go
Res Ipsa
Yes. I think you’re going to raise more eyebrows as “the intern who didn’t even bother to wear a suit on the first day” than to be overdressed the first day. And, as mentioned, you’ll probably be able to take your blazer off later.
My only recommendation would be to wear the most comfortable shoes possible, as you’ll probably be doing “The Tour” (of the office, courthouse, etc.)
Anon.
I am an intern at a federal agency in DC. It’s a small office and the dress code is pretty casual. I still wore a skirt suit on my first day as did the other intern. I think it was expected that we would show up in suits because while the other attorneys joked that this would be the last time we’d need a suit this summer, they said that they all showed up in suits on their first days too. I would really suggest wearing a suit with something work appropriate under your jacket so you can take it off later.
I second the comfortable shoes suggestion!
S
Totally agree on the comfortable shoes. My first day as a legal intern this summer, I wore my “comfortable” black closed-toe pumps. As heels go, they’re really comfortable… until you’re walking around on marble floors for literally 4 hours on the first day! After about an hour and 1/2 I ditched them for my rain shoes – it being DC, I keep them with me basically every day – which are rubber slingbacks. From afar they look like work shoes. I figured that was better than being unable to walk at all!
Amber
Did anyone else see this article? It’s about legal assistants not liking to work for women associates and partners. Has this been anyone’s experience? Do you all think it’s that the assistants are making assumptions about the attorneys (e.g. that a woman attorney will treat them nicer than a man attorney would) that end up not being true, or that the women attorneys really do act differently from the men in a way that makes them bad bosses?
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/05/28/on-the-sisterhood-at-law-firms-part-ii/
K
Interesting article. I now have an assistant for the first time ever, so I can’t speak to whether she’d prefer to work with a male attorney, but she certainly seems to dislike working with me. She doesn’t seem to try very hard to do good work – everything I get from her has sloppy mistakes, and because I’m a new attorney, I don’t always catch them before they go out. I think maybe she resents working with me because I’m about twenty years younger than she is, because the other female attorneys she works with are closer to her age and don’t seem to have the same problems with her.
And no, I haven’t been rude or demanding in the slightest – whenever I’ve had to ask her to redo things, I’ve done it very gently (and probably more apologetically than I should), and lately I just don’t ask her to do very much for me at all. It’s more work to get her to redo it right than it is for me to just do it in the first place.
PG
Maybe that is exactly what she wants? – For you to stop giving her work? In my expereince many secretaries do not want to do any work and try and avoid it as much as possible. In my first year, I sent out a work done by my secretary without going ove rit line by line. For sure, the partner caught all the mistakes. Never again.
Res Ipsa
exactly. Have you pointed the pattern of sloppiness out during performance reviews or to the lead paralegal? If it’s anything like my office, the secretaries have been allowed to skate along with barely minimal performance for so long, it’s just expected that the attorneys will have to make the same corrections over and over again (e.g., no one seems to have been able to get through that a statute and a regulation are two different things and that they should be listed separately in a table of authorities). But once i started pointing out specific things that could be improved in my performance evaluations, they did start to get better.
mm
I have had a fantastic secretary for the seven years I’ve been practicing, and I still find the occasional typo–I just chalk it up to “nobody’s perfect” and move on with my day (I’m pretty clear there’s no resentfulness, intentional sloppiness, or laziness happening, though), but I always check and re-check to make sure edits are entered correctly, letters typed accurately, etc.–you are responsible for what goes out the door, and you just have to make a habit of doing this (I check my own work when I enter changes I’ve made to a document, too).
K
Oh, I absolutely do check everything before it goes out. When I first started, though, I didn’t know about some of the stylistic nuances that I’m now familiar with. And we’re not talking occasional typos here – I have kept track, and in the almost six months I’ve been working with this assistant, she has given me precisely three documents that didn’t need to be redone (for example, she’ll give me cover letters that are addressed to Clerk Jones but say “Dear Clerk Smith” – that’s the most frequent issue). I don’t expect anyone to be perfect, but I don’t think that level of performance is acceptable.
divaliscious11
My experience has either been that the expectation is that you will be more of a friend, versus just being “friendly” and if you establish the boundary early, you have fewer problems. I’ve run into this with both admins, legal assistants and junior attorneys….
anon
I’ve been support staff in small, medium, and big firms, and I’ve always preferred to work with men too. Remember a few days ago someone here posted that an article of clothing was something a secretary would wear and a professional wearing it wouldn’t be taken seriously? That’s not an uncommon attitude from professional women of a Certain Generation.
Also, women professionals give their assistants really awful gifts. Men just give cash, or awful gifts if their wives are picking them out for them. I see those gifts suggested on here too (pashminas, Tiffany key fobs, Coach wallets…always in the taste or style of the giver rather than the recipient).
Now as an attorney in a big firm, I have no relationship with my assistant. I met her once when I was hired and I’ve never seen her again since she’s on a different floor.
PJB
I’m an attorney in a smallish 12-lawyer federal litigation office. My secretary is beloved by me. She has my back. She protects me when I come in late, as in “I think Ms. PJB went to talk to the U.S. Attorney.” When I’m fried after a day of dealing with hopeless situations, sad and angry people, and humorless federal judges, she makes sure I have some moments of solitude to regroup. She is excellent at proof-reading motions and writing cover letters in my style. She knows how to get hearing dates changed when I have a conflict— she has friends at all levels of the courthouse. She is a college graduate, and there is no question that if time and circumstance had treated her better, she could have been a fine attorney.
In short, I can’t imagine her being on a different floor. My secretary makes me a better lawyer and my clients benefit from her professional and kind behavior. And, I think my gifts are great because I ask her what she wants and she tells me: our price range is $300 -500.
(My prior secretary was male, with a gambling addiction, and problems with his wife and boyfriend. (Don’t ask.) In the end, he got fired because he borrowed money from the boss and then . . . well that story gets too tawdry.)
She’s just been promoted to assistant paralegal and she handles that with grace.
LexCaritas
Interesting. I am mid-level with a female secretary and work sometimes with/for a female equity partner.
On the secretarial/admin assistant side, I think some of it is the expectation that you might be best girlfriends, and then a bit of shock when you actually need a *secretary*.
On the attorney assisting a partner side, I have to say that I have had better and worse experiences with different women. At my old firm, I worked for a partner thought to be ‘scary’ by the males associates and I thought she was magnificent: sharp, incisive and ambitious. In my current firm….so different. The partner in question swings between insecure and high-handed with the junior attorneys and with the support staff, is grabby about clients and excludes anyone (no matter how junior) who she sees as somehow threatening. In short HARD WORK.
This is this woman’s issue and obviously not a trait universal to all women in power, as the woman from my previous firm (and probably most other women IMHO) demonstrates.
PT
NOT a big fan of working for female attorneys (or women in general) because I feel they have a tendency to over-share with the personal information and get emotional. That said, I would rather work for an emotional woman than a creepy man.
3L Sarah
I’m looking for some advice from the lawyer-ladies out there…
So a couple weeks ago I graduated law school (YIPEE!!!) and last week started prepping for the Bar. I’m the first one in my immediate family to go to law school, the second one on both sides of my family ever.
Needless to say, my parents and sister have shown that they don’t really understand how important this is. For example, when I first got home, my Dad gave me a list of daily things to do (that would normally take almost the whole morning) because “all I’ll be doing is studying anyway.” My sister is the kind of person that would pick a fight with you over absolutely nothing, which she does on a daily basis. She picks fights with me mostly having to do with me doing nothing around the house because I’m at the library all day. My mom seems to understand and so tries to run interference, which I hate seeing her do. I’ve explained to everyone that this is really important to me, how little outside interference I can handle until August, etc. This past week, things have gotten better, but by gotten better I mean my dad has simply stopped speaking to me except to offer me coffee. This situation is workable to me, but I know it’s not workable for pretty much anyone else in my family, so it won’t last. I’m at class/the library for most of the day, so this only comes up when I get home from the library (and don’t feel like talking to anyone) and when I do my few hours of study after dinner.
So, if you were living with other people when you were studying for the Bar, how did you do it? What did you tell them to make them understand how crazy stressful things are? I pulled some “open letters to parents/spouses of bar studiers” from the internet for them, but my parents say, “But this isn’t you! You’re smart! You’ll be fine! Now go take your sister’s car and get it washed.” Argh!!
K
Can you move out? It may be worth it to find the cheapest place you can so that you can study in peace, if they are really not going to understand your need for time to study and concentrate. Spending 2 months not talking to my family doesn’t sound like fun to me.
On the other hand, it sounds like you are studying too much right now for it just being the first week or 2 of studying. I only did about 2 hrs a day outside of barbri for the first couple of weeks.
3L Sarah
Well, this week I signed up for the PMBR 6-Day MBE Foundations class, but my BarBri class (online) also started this week. So I’m at PMBR for about 4-5 hours, and then I come home and eat, and then watch my barbri lecture. I’ve already ditched doing the assignments until this weekend, when I’ve actually digested the material. However, this will end tomorrow, so starting next week I will only have my BarBri online class to worry about. And when it’s MBE day for BarBri, I’m planning on going relatively quickly through that (since I took an MBE class at school this past semester and Kaplan’s class) and doing more practice questions (so not as much time as barbri probably wants me to).
The fact that the live classes started last week and the video classes (my classes) started this week makes me think that the live class people have so much more time. Grr…
I could move out and rent a room. I’ve told them that if the situation does not improve that I am prepared to do that. I figure that I would see how next week goes and go from there. Thoughts?
claire
Just bec areful if you move out and end up with housemates – they can be obnoxious too, and the devil you know (your family) is better than the devil you don’t!
MelD
I find moving to be a stressful experience and would not recommend trying to move in June- it’s just too late in the game to have to look for a place and then get your stuff moved there. If you rent a room in someone else’s house, there’s no guarantee that you’ll have it any better than you have it now.
I have to agree with a few people that you don’t need to be studying 10 hours a day this early in the game. If you are doing the PMBR and BarBri right now at the same time, don’t stress about doing that much other than that on your own time. You can ramp it up a few weeks before the exam, but if you’re already studying 10 hours a day this early in, you will burn out quickly.
Eponine
I second the suggestion to move out. What a nightmare. Any rent you have to spend will be cheaper than the cost of re-taking the bar.
CJ in CA
Sympathy but no advice!
I’m back with my mom and brother this summer. Absolutely 0 comprehension of what this is all about. I got here and had to clean the bathroom for 2 hours because it hadn’t been done since I was home at Christmas. All of my clothes etc. are still in the car because there is no space in my old room, and I went grocery shopping for the whole family today. AND I’m already 2 days behind on Barbri because of the move. My mom is acting like I’m being selfish for studying and not becoming the housewife/maid she always wanted.
I’m taking the “MOBILE” course on the iPod Touch. Has anyone done this? We live too far away (over 2 hours) to commute for the class, but living at home will save so much money (in furniture purchases, rent, utilities, etc.)
A.
Move. Out. You have your own life to live. You don’t need to be anybody’s maid. Is there a friend you can stay with? Relatives? Can you rent a room in someone’s house?
I am sorry for you guys who are dealing with this BS while you have bigger fish to fry…it’s sad that some families are so unsupportive. :(
mille
I took the barbri course on the IPOD, and I loved it. I would have hated the live classes. I am a night person and got to study when my brain was most active. It’s also easy to listen to in the car or wherever you happen to be.
3L Sarah
I’m doing the BarBri Mobile too (I live in Chicago but taking the VA Bar). So far it’s working pretty well. :-D
AN
CJ & 3L Sarah
I am sorry – sadly not a lot to offer by way of suggestions. I am eternally grateful now for my parents’ support and “do not disturb her” attitude towards the world when I was studying to get into B-school.
I hope things get better – one way or the other. Good luck!
SUCL 3L
I just graduated also. I’m in a slightly different position perhaps that I went to law school fairly close to where I grew up (and where my dad still lives). My lease for my apartment isn’t up until July. I COULD move back in with my dad and save at least some money, but I made the decision to stay in my apartment because I knew the peace and quiet would be the best for my bar studies.
Try explaining to your family that studying for the bar is a full-time job. Hell, show them the work you have to do to study. Remind them that not everyone passes the bar (in my state the statewide pass rate is usually around 70%) and that you do not want to have to take it again. Let them know how incredibly important it is that you have your time to study and that you’re willing to do your part to help around the house, but this ain’t no summer vacay.
If that doesn’t work out, see if you can get a short-term lease on a place or find a couple of other law students to live with for the next 2 months.
Jen
I completely agree with the advice to move out! I have a roommate, but I’ve been spending most of the day away from home with a friend who is also doing Barbri. She has her own apartment so we study there and then go to Barbri and go back to study some more. Studying at my apartment with my roommate and friends across the hall makes it a lot more difficult. It sounds like you are able to get studying done at the library, so at least you have that part worked out.
Can you explain to your parents the level of commitment that the bar takes? Show them the recommended study hours for barbri and the passage rates for the bar in your state. Sit them down and explain that you are more than willing to do your own laundry, wash your dishes, keep your room and bathroom clean, etc. just like you would with a roommate but that you simply do not have enough time to do other chores.
Good luck! I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
Res Ipsa
Move out. Managing stress is a huge part of preparing for the bar. Those few hours after I had finished studying for the day were so preciously needed to decompress that I would have had to scream if I had had anything else to do besides take care of me (hit the gym, make myself dinner, enjoy a glass of wine, hit the sack).
When I was studying for the bar, I lived with a roommate who was working full-time, so the only expectations were that I would continue to do the basic stuff around the apartment (wash my own dishes, pay the rent, keep my mess to my room and not the public areas). All of that seems to be reasonable, but you can’t be taking on extra work around the house. Or you offer to contribute to the household at specific limited times/dates, such as on Saturday mornings by doing {x}. But if you’ve already tried to set you boundaries and it hasn’t work, you don’t need the extra stress of living like this for the next 2 months.
Taylor
Mixed feeling on this one. I find it hard to believe that anyone really needs to study for two months or so for the bar, but many do. I worked until up to two weeks before the bar. My mother still drove me insane during those two weeks. Go stay elsewhere for the last week or so, even if it is an extended stay hotel!
Res Ipsa
Taylor-I often found that the people in law school (and studying for the bar) who had other responsibilities (children, job) were often the most focused because they had the least amount of time to waste! That said, i took the CA bar and yes, I pretty much studied 8 hours a day/5 days a week for the 2 months prior to the bar.
Delta Sierra
3L Sarah – just want to say how floored I am that your family isn’t taking your law studies seriously. How can they possibly not understand how serious it is?! This is advanced studies, for a serious job! And they want you to take your sister’s car to be washed?! Gaaah. I’d move out. No one needs this degree of disrespect.
3L Sarah
I don’t think they mean it to be disrespectful, but I think they come at it like, “Why is Sarah worrying about a test? She’s had plenty of tests before, and big ones too. What’s the big deal and why did this one cost so much?” When I explain that I can’t work without passing this test, they go back to “But you’re smart. It’ll be just fine! Look at and they’re lawyers, so they must have passed too!”
One example: tonight I went to dinner with my Dad and some of my parent’s friends. My Dad’s friend told me about his friend’s son who just graduated and has a job in San Diego. I said, “Oh, so he’s taking the CA Bar.” Dad’s friend says, “Oh, is that how that works?” I said, “Yeah, he’ll take the CA Bar in July, and he won’t be able to keep his job if he doesn’t pass it.” Dad says, “Oh really? They won’t let him work without passing it? But he went to Harvard!” *Sarah does a faceplant*
Now that all my BarBri books are all over the dining room table, it’s gotten better. I think it’s because it’s a physical manifestation of the amount of preparation that goes into the test. I can point to the pile of books and say “I have to memorize the contents of that pile of books…BY JULY.” They get that. I think before they thought I was being overdramatic (which, I admit, has happened in the past, haha).
Cindy
I second the thought about spending all this time studying for the bar. I worked up to one week before the Bar and did fine.
That said, can you consider something like an extended stay motel? A friend had to take the Alabama bar b/c his wife was going to UAB for her Ph.D. He cut a deal at an extended stay place, went to the library every day to study, came back to the motel at night.
Itis not the cheapest option, but it would alleviate the stress of moving your stuff. Often these places have enough food that you can do breakfast and dinner there, all alleviating the stress of having to find food for meals. For 2 months, it might be worth the money.
Good luck whatever you do.
CJ in CA
Exactly. I’m the smartest, most academically successful person they know of. I’ve succeeded in law school, and they never saw any of the work that went into that. My mom keeps comparing it with college finals. Yesterday when I told her I only got about 1/2 the points on the MBE practice and less on the essay I did I think that sunk in a little. If I’m “Failing” at it, it must be hard.
anon
It sounds as though your family expects you to make some contributions to the household. You didn’t specify what your father expected you to do do, but I’m guessing they are things along the line of, wash some dishes, do your laundry, pick up after yourself, help with the preparation of meals on ocassion, etc.. If that’s what they are expecting from you, then I don’t think that they are being unreasonable. You’d have to do those things if you were living on your own, right?
I have a sneaky suspision that *you* might be treating your family members as though they were your maids and that is what’s causing tension in the home.
As far as your sister’s car—- are you using it while you are at home? If so, then, yeah, it might be a good idea to get it washed every once in a while. If you aren’t using it, then all bets are off and she needs to take care of that herself.
3L Sarah
I do make the usual contributions to the household. I do my own laundry, help make dinner, help clean up, etc etc; these I was going to do regardless. The list of household chores included things like “wash all the windows, water all the flowers” which, after the tutorials my Dad would give me, would honestly take approx. 3 hours each because we have so many. I will be more than happy to help Dad haul up things from the basement for 3 days straight in August. Not now.
Yes, I have had to wash all the windows of my house before, inside and out. No, Windex and a paper towel don’t cut it.
As for tension in the home, I can fully attest that it’s not completely me. :-) Both my sister and I are home this summer from school and we’re both quite independent. This, coupled with the usual family tension and my newly-retired ex-upper management Dad (who has nothing to manage……except us) obviously creates conflict.
I do have my own car, so that’s not an issue. It’s new, however, and so my parents like to “take it out for a drive” kinda whenever, which sometimes strands me, which IS an issue. But, because it’s not “my” car I can’t really complain. But that’s another rant for another day. :-)
Purpleviolet
You haven’t said if you are financially dependent on your parents. I suspect that you are not paying for rent or food, or if you are, the amount is minimal compared to what you would pay if you lived on your own. I worked and lived by myself prior to taking the bar and I passed. If you depend on your parents, they will treat you like a child. You cannot have it both ways.
3L Sarah
I actually moved home in order to depend on them financially until I took the Bar. For TMI, another list my parents handed me when I got home was the things that I would be financially responsible for, which was completely different (meaning there was one) than when I asked earlier this past semester. So, until my bar loan gets dispersed, I will be financially dependent on them. After that, no. I won’t have to pay rent/food, but they wouldn’t take my money if I wanted to anyway.
North Shore
Your family is big on lists. You might get some pleasure checking out http://www.passiveaggressivenotes.com.
Shayna
This is so true — I lived at home while working full time and going to graduate school, at the invitation of my parents (I went right from college to grad school so I didn’t live ‘on my own’ in the interim). Knowing what a tremendous gift they were giving me – the ability to devote my salary to paying for graduate school, and having a family to suppot me emotionally during the most intense time in my life, made me extremely motivated to act as part of that family – including laundry, cleaning, whatever… when I wasn’t studying for finals, at work, etc… so there was a natural ebb and flow that my parents were fine with… I bought my own house because the market was right, the tax credit was there, etc – not because I didn’t like living with them… Perhaps identifying a break day from studying when you can participate in the family would help? You have to be part of the family community to be treated as one… instead of resenting your family, I would suggest you actively try to take on the tasks that you can complete without issue – you can switch a load of laundry and fold it in under 10 minutes!
CJ in CA
I don’t know about 3L Sarah, but I have no problem doing the things I would normally do like my own dishes, or even all the dishes, my own laundry always, vacuum once a week, put the dogs in and out, etc. For me, it’s like a lot of basic maintenance cleaning has been left undone for about 6 months and “saved up” for when CJ would be home to have “time” to do it. So, yeah, I don’t mind cleaning the bathroom, but have you ever cleaned a bathroom that’s been used and not cleaned for 6 months? It’s not quite the same. Mopping v. stripping and rewaxing the floors, Vacuum v. Shampoo all the carpets.
I think the IMMEDIACY of the demands is an issue too. I know for me, and perhaps 3L Sarah too, I don’t exactly know what this is going to take. I’m just getting started and it seems really daunting. If when I had time, there was a list of things I could do that might be fine. But, “stop what you’re doing right now, and do this NOW” is stressful.
I did expect that when they offered me the opportunity to move in here, that would mean that they would make room in the FIVE bedroom house for a THIRD person. However, since there is an emotional attachment to those 3 bedrooms full of junk, I’ll just have to keep my stuff in the car I guess.
M
I had a similar, albeit less intense, situation last year with my family while studying for the bar. On one of the numerous car trips to a “mandatory” family event, I plugged in my iPod to the car stereo and subjected my family to Paula Franzese. They finally realized that I was in fact studying, and I wasn’t just listening to an iPod all day while working through simplistic worksheets. After that, there were no more “mandatory” family events and far fewer chores everyday.
As a side note: don’t study too much during June (try to keep on pace with the lectures and typing up an outline, but don’t go overboard with the practice tests). You’ll need to save a ton of energy and sample exams for the stretch after 4th of July weekend.
CJ in CA
Awesome idea. I might give it a shot!
Ru
My family is having a hard time supporting my sister through Step I, or boards, or whatever they’re called. We don’t ask her to do anything, food is prepared for her, I spent all of Sunday doing her laundry and we tiptoe around the house so that we don’t disturb her. However, if we knock on her door to ask if she’d like lunch or dinner, she blows up and lets us know that we’re disturbing her in shrieking tones (no joke). This girl studies with ear plugs in, closes all doors and sits there and memorizes DOZENS OF TEXTBOOKS and review books.
All I’m saying is that it’s hard both ways. Honestly, I have no idea how medical students deal with this stuff but they somehow do. My family is praying cuz June 24th cannot arrive soon enough (her test date). Try to cut your family some slack – give them an hour or two or spend 5 min talking to them every day. If you can move out, do it. Otherwise, you have to realize that your family just doesn’t get it.
divaliscious11
No offense, but that is ridiculous. she can wash her own clothes, get her own food and contribute to the household, at a moinimum clean up behind herself. How the heck is she going to manage life, unless she is going to pack all of you up with her…
JAS
I am sorry to say that in the numerous jobs I have had since high school, I have always found it more difficult to work for and with other women than men. This is especially true of younger women. I don’t know why it is, but it bothers me. I find younger women bosses more patronizing and frankly ruder than men. I don’t know if it’s me or them. I’m trying to work on it though and I hope to make improvements, especially when I become someone’s boss.
JAS
oops, meant to out this in the thread above.
North Shore
No advice, but some sympathy. My family members thought the Law Review was like a little school newspaper. They never understood why I had so much work to do all the time. Good luck with the bar.
Amber
Same here! I called my grandparents to tell them that I’d been chosen for the Law Review editorial board, and they came away from the conversation thinking I was editor of the school newspaper. Oh well…
Seventh Sister
When I was a law clerk, I can’t tell you how many people thought law clerk = file clerk…granted, these were mostly non-lawyers.
red
My grandfather routinely told people that I was a secretary for a judge.
Dee
Opinions please! Kindle or nook?
divaliscious11
Kindle!
3L
I have a kindle and I love it. I love its sleekness and simplicity. I am pro-technology but would never get an ipad. I just want to be able to read books and avoid the clutter of hard books collecting dust on more and more shelves. Also, after 3 yrs of law school, my poor eyes cannot handle any more glaring backlight than necessary. I like it over the Nook because it has a typepad and not a touchpad (which is what the nook comes with). I have an iphone and am kind of sick of the greasiness that accompanies touchpads – might sound silly but that’s me. The battery life and ebook ordering is instantaneous from the kindle, so no issues there.
Anyway, the Nook definitely has some benefits over the kindle. You can automatically share books with other nook-users (I don’t know anyone who has one so it was not a bonus for me). With Kindle, you can share ebooks only with other kindles who are registered under your same amazon account (e.g., you and a relative or hubby both register 2 kindles under one online amazon account). Also, you can go to B&N and read books in-store via their wi-fi. Once you leave the store the book is gone unless you buy it. You also get some discounts and promotional offers on your nook when you walk in-store (e.g. free cookie or coffee at their cafe).
The price is the same and I don’t think there’s any real tie -breaker. I think you will get the same enjoyment out of either device. Hope this helps :) Happy reading!
LawyrChk
Also recommended to avoid dusty books filling up your house: the local public library. I borrow books every 3 months or so and it’s saved me a bundle of $$ and time not spent dusting them or trying to give them awayl
Dee
I actually love and use the library too, but it gets annoying to wait for weeks for a hold on a popular book – I’d rather just pay the $10 to get the ebook! That said, I’ll probably continue using the library for anything picture heavy (like craft books, decorating books, etc). I don’t think one excludes the other.
Delta Sierra
Dusty books?! Just a minute while I get my heart started again ;) I love the look of my many, many shelves of books, some of which are signed first editions and appreciating nicely in value, thank you very much.
SUCL 3L
Call me arcane and unsophisticated, but I love the look, feel, and smell of real paper books. I love my book collection.
LawyrChk
Just responding the to poster’s complaint above me :) I love books, but I try not to keep every one I’ve read. If it’s truly that good (and doesn’t have any particular sentimental value to me) then I try to give it away for someone else to enjoy. Several friends from law school used to trade paperbacks once a semester. As a result, I read a ton but my bookshelves are pretty light. Plus, think of all the trees it saves by reusing rather than purchasing new!
AN
Dusty book lover here! I’m sure my books have zero value but my beloved Oscar Wilde illustrated hardback (it even has pencil sketches showing actors at the Haymarket a century ago) is now old enough to drink:)
K
I wish I could take more advantage of my local library – unfortunately, city budget cuts have resulted in library hours being cut to 1-5 PM on weekdays and no weekend hours at all. It’s hard to use the library when they’re literally never open at a time I can go!
Shayna
I love books! I love that I can toss a paperback in my beach bag, leave one in the car, and not worry about them melting or getting sandy. I love my antique collection of Nancy Drews, that they never needs batteries, that I can lend one to a friend,…
I think the Kindles/Nooks, are interesting, but as an avaid reader/library user I’m waiting until there’s a monthly subscription for unlimited books like there is for music (Rhapsody I think it is)…
Lynette
I love books too. And magazines, and CD’s. Eh, I’ll get dragged into the modern times eventually.
Dee
I agree, but I don’t think its necessarily one or the other. My desire for an ereader was born out of the fact that I have no more space for books. But I’m not exactly getting rid of my favorite books any time soon… I’m going for a combination of ebooks/paper books/library. Some things are just not available as ebooks OR at the library (most Murakami or Oates), some things make no sense as ebooks OR from the library (craft books with pictures) but things like classics, new novels, new non-fiction will be cluttering up my ereader and goodreads account, not my house.
RR
For paper books, check out bookswim.com. It’s like Netflix for books. It’s not perfect; but the idea is solid, and it functions fairly well.
Amber
I also have a Kindle and I’m in love with it. I’ve played around with the Nook, and I don’t find it to be as intuitive, but that is probably because I am already used to my Kindle.
I agree with the poster above who said you’d be happy with either. I’m now a bit of an e-reader evangelist…..
K
Kindle. I may love it almost as much as my only child.
Karen
I like my Kindle. The feature that allows you to load Kindle e-reader software onto another device (iPhone or iPod Touch) and have them sync so that you’re on the same page is a tremendous benefit for me. I can use the Kindle when at home or doing a lot of reading, then grab my Touch if I’m out and about and suddenly find myself with a few minutes to kill. (This is probably a bigger benefit for a city-dweller).
One minus is that Kindle does not read some popular e-book formats (mobi I think). I found out that the NY public library has many e-book downloads, but I can’t read them on my Kindle. I don’t know if I could read them on the Nook, but I think they can be read on the Sony e-reader.
You might want to consider whether you really want an e-book reader. The prices are not as much lower as I’d expected, and although there are many free books (which is great both because they are free, and because they encourage me to read classics – just read Frankenstein for the first time and loved), some seem to have weird formatting issues on the Kindle – numbers or punctuation may have weird, distracting extra characters around them and things like that. This is true even for some of the almost-free classics on Amazon.
Do some internet searching off this site – there are plenty of reviews and commentary. Lots of good reviews on Amazon will spell out the pluses and minuses of the Kindle.
Canadian
My Kobo has just been delivered!!! I bought it mainly because of the price – can’t beat $150. It’s only available in Canada right now but will be available in the US in June [reversal of what usually happens!] It comes pre-loaded with 100 classic books, which is nice.
Canadian
Sorry, I forgot to add- from what I have heard, the Kindle doesn’t support the “epub” format (sorry if I’m wrong about this). Most libraries are lending in the “epub” format and so this was a big consideration for me.
Delta Sierra
iPad. Sorry. I tried ’em all, iPad was the only one I could stand sustained reading on.
Dee
Thanks for all the opinions, guy, keep them coming if you have more! I realized after posting that I can cash in my Amazon credit card rewards for $200 (doh!), which makes the Kindle the winner.. otherwise it would be very hard to decide!
ES
Not sure if you ordered already, but just came across this article which probably means that in a few months you can either get a better Kindle or the current one for less, if you’re up for waiting
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20006364-1.html
Dee
Interesting! I doubt I’m going to hold off though, because as a student, I do must of my reading during the summer months.
RR
I have a Kindle and love it, but I haven’t tried a Nook so I can’t compare.
mew
I’m a recent Kindle convert. I confess, I am not a pro-technology person. I was convinced that I would hat the eReader. But I recently was given the Kindle as a gift, and as I say am now a convert.
I love how easy it is to buy and download books. (Ease of buying is also going to be a drawback for me–there goes the book buying budget). I love the convenience. As someone who reads a lot and quickly, I love knowing I can actually take 6 books on vacation. I love that it is not backlit and is no more stressful on my eyes than the printed page.
That said, I’m not giving up my library card but at the moment it is so difficult to actually use our library. (cut backs in hours/staff coupled with the city recently getting rid of most of the parking in the area of the library). I’m also not giving up my “real” books anytime soon either. In fact I just got a bunch of “real” books over the weekend.
Going forward, I see my reading as a healthy mix of library books (ones that I want to read but am not sure I actually will like), “real” hardback and paperback books, and Kindle eBooks.
I obviously don’t have the Nook, but my friend does. While it looks nice, I don’t think I’d like the touchscreen. Not a huge fan of touchscreens in general though.
lawDJ
Anyone have a Talbots coupon code? I have been eyeing some sweaters but can’t bear myself to buy them without a coupon :). Thanks in advance :)
LLH
I found this on buxr.com:
Talbots: 20% Off Sitewide, No Minimum + $5 Shipping (Online) (Talbots)
added 19 days ago by HouTex
Coupon code: 019091678
(20% Off + $5 Shipping)
“May Prospecting” promotion, good on everything, including discounted sale and outlet items. Expiration unknown, but possibly 5/31/10.
LexCaritas
Curiousity: What do you have up on the walls of your office and did you put it there or are you living with the firm legacy decoration?
Res Ipsa
My diplomas and bar certificate. C’est tout. (But I tend to be a minimalist in terms of decor. I’m not at work to admire the art, right?) I feel like there was an open thread here once about decorating your office, but now I can’t find it.
KelliJ
My diplomas (college and law school), a bulletin board, white board, and a framed picture of U2 and my ticket to their “Secret Show” at the Somerville Theater from March, 2009.
cat
Just my diplomas and bar certificate. On my desk I have a wedding pic and a picture of one of my cats, but they’re facing me so no one sees them unless they come around to my side.
divaliscious11
law degree, admission certificate, Court where I clerked certificate of merit and space for my MBA on one wall (graduating in December), pics of family here and there, and a big whiteboard with status of open matters etc… Couple other pieces of art. Most of the leadership here has family pics etc… in their offices so that sort of stuff is non-issue. Was a few minutes early for a meeting in a a senior exec’s office and he was putting up a couple of new pieces from his kids….
PJB
I no longer have any of my multiple diplomas or bar admissions, state, 9th Cir, Supreme Ct., or certificates or awards. I do have two lamps, one for the floor and one on table. A quality oriental rug. Comfortable, interesting pillows for the guest chairs and my own, and lots and lots of original art work. Most of the art comes from the great art shops in downtown Honolulu and have a Hawaiian feel. I also grow two live plants.
And, I’ve removed the fluorescent lighting.
It helps that I have daylight streaming in thru my windows; my office overlooks Honolulu Bay. I see palm trees from my window, and sailing ships, and jets and planes Yep, it’s hard, at times, to focus on those ponzi scheme depositions. Who am I kidding? It’s hard all of the time.
KZ
that must be the best view in the world, and i am quite jealous.
Cindy
My diplomas, Phi Beta Kappa, and bar license. The PBK is really b/c I needed something to even out the other 3.
And a Boston Marthon poster–large, of the running crowd and the language “Everything you ever needed to know about yourself, you can learn in 26.2 miles.” I probably would not have had the nerve to put it up right out of law school, but I’m in a small plaintiff firm, and it is a great conversation starter. Plus, you would be surprised the respect you get from men who might not otherwise–especially since I am 5 feet and less than 100 pounds!!
Chicago K
Re: the poster – love it! :)
Eponine
Diplomas, law licenses for the 2 jurisdictions where I practice, bulletin board with work documents I refer to frequently and a couple of photos, a framed piece of artwork by my good friend, and on my shelves I have a lot of knicknacks from places I have traveled for work, photos of the Chicago skyline, and plants, plus a lot of books. I also have a floor lamp, exercise ball, and shawls draped over my chairs.
Sarah J.
I don’t know if there are very many CPAs out there to answer my question, but I’m working my way through post college accounting and “business topics” classes right now so I can sit for the CPA exam. I have 4 more business and 6 more accounting classes to go, and I’m wondering what I can do along the way to make studying for the exam easier when that time comes. I’ve been taking lots of notes, but I wonder if I’m wasting my time. Is the CPA exam like the bar, where you really “need” something like barbri because your classes don’t prepare you for the exam itself? Is Becker worth it, or should I just take neurotic amounts of notes all along and get some study guides? Is there any other advice you’d give as I take these classes? Thanks!
Aim
I took the CPA back when dinosaurs roamed the earth (1998) and it was all written by hand as opposed to the computer model there is now. I did not take a review course. The one offered by my college was $2400 and I simply did not have that kind of money. I confessed as much to the professor who was my academic advisor and he said to buy review books and do it on my own. I graduated in May, the next week started full time work, and took the exam in November (it was only offered in May and November back in the day). I studied in the morning before work for several hours and again most nights for 1-2 hours with review books. There were four sections at the time and I had one thick book for each section. The books had review notes and practice tests. I also found practice tests online and in my college library. I did every practice test I could get my hands on. I passed the whole thing the first time. You can do it, too.
Whitney
My boyfriend is using Gleim. He has passed both sections that he has taken on the first try.
Shayna
So excited for a CPA based thread!!
Just sat for Regulation (I was the one debating what to wear above) — I got my undergrad in economics/finance, and my master’s in accountancy (finished Dec. 09) before starting Becker for the CPA – everyone I talked to (which was a lot) recommended Becker… I worked in public accounting for a couple years and in corporate (exempt) tax since.
Do it — I passed Audit the first try – we’ll see how the others go, but even w/ an undergraduate/master’s courses in accounting, taken recently, I needed the Becker course. Becker has a 0% financing offer for current students that you may want to check into, but if you can spend the whole amount at once, there’s a discount if you’re a student member of a state section (usually about $15). If you go to work for Big 4 or another public accounting firm or the IRS they’ll usually pay for Becker outright.
Sarah J.
So studying for the CPA exam is done completely separately from studying for classes? You used none of your class notes to study, and used the information from Becker/Gleim/whatever instead?
Does this mean I can sell back my books?
Can I just say as an aside, that I am so happy to have finally found something to do that I really like that will actually allow me to not live in a cardboard box? I graduated from a liberal arts college that had us all believing that people would want to hire us “because we could think.” *cue jaded laughter* Anyway, hooray for finding a path!
Anonymous
I’m the Anon that responded to Shayna’s thread above about what to wear and Chapstick. I majored in accounting in undergrad and did a Master’s–I didn’t use any of my course notes or textbooks from either degree in studying for the exam. I can’t see where they would be useful compared to the commercial preparation programs, which are so good at spelling out exactly what you need to know (from the AICPA’s outline). They also know what’s typically heavily tested and can direct your attention toward those topics. If you study your class notes, you may waste time studying something that your professor emphasized because it was his/her research focus but that the CPA exam doesn’t emphasize.
Since I was going straight to law school, I didn’t have a firm to pay for Becker and initially tried to go cheap with the Wiley books off Amazon. I self-studied for both the GMAT and LSAT and didn’t see why it couldn’t work with the CPA exam too. But the tiny black font on newsprint was so dry that I couldn’t study for more than 10 minutes, and I didn’t feel like I was internalizing anything from just reading the outline. I sold those books and ordered Becker (self-paced DVDs) and even though I’ll have an IOU to my parents coming out of my summer firm paycheck, I don’t regret it. It’s certainly possible to pass without Becker, but Becker pretty much made it impossible for me to fail–I just listened to the lectures, underlined/highlighted when they told me to, and did the practice questions and full exams. As a to-do list person, I loved checking stuff off! I didn’t feel great going into one section because it’s not my favorite subject (classic audit vs. tax) and I only took the intro class during my BBA+Master’s, but I ended up passing easily. I credit this to how well Becker “over”prepares you, and that peace of mind was worth it to me.
It may not be to you, so I will add that I have another friend who used Gleim at first when she didn’t have a firm paying. She liked it while studying and passed 3 sections, but she didn’t pass her weak section. After she went to a Big 4 firm, she had them pay for Becker for that section and she passed. I can’t say though whether it was Becker that helped her pass or just the familiarity of studying the material a second time and the scare of a past failure to push her to study harder.
Sorry for writing so much, but I hope you can at least find something useful in it. Good luck with your studying, whichever method you choose.
[If you do end up ordering Becker and you’re a member of Beta Gamma Sigma (business honor society), I think you get a discount of $250. You have to call a woman at BGS to verify your membership and she will give you the instructions to claim the discount. As others mentioned, there are a few other discounts if you can’t use this one.]
Shayna
Agree — part of me resents the fact that I have a Master’s in Accountancy that left me still needing Becker (to be fair I cut right to Becker – exam fees are too expensive, and the time until the exam changes on 1/1/2011 to include IFRS which is a whole other thing to study is too tight) – but c’est la vie – such is life. Becker gives you what to memorize, and you do have to devote the time – with a pass rate of 46%/section it’s not an easy exam. I did the online/self-study version, which gives you the lectures to watch on your computer and I love it. I can do part of a lecture, rewatch it, whatever when it works for me, instead of driving to a four hour lecture four nights a week for 6 months.
Aim
I sold my books back. I didn’t use them at all in studying for the exam and have never had a use for them in my career. Ditto previous poster that said profs emphasize their own thing and not what’s really useful.
I thought about this some more and you get out of your studying what you put in to it. Most of my classmates took the review course my college offered and the ones that took it seriously did well for the most part. The ones that didn’t take it seriously didn’t do well. You really have to approach the studying like it’s a part time job.
Shayna
Lose the books! We all have the Kieso accounting book in various editions in our offices, none of us use them! The only benefit of my grad degree in accountancy was that I took an audit class last, so when I was studying for audit (as a tax person) I had at least heard of some of the key terms… but I didn’t use the books, notes etc — Just Becker – and the Becker notecards, which I totally recommend buying. Did not buy the final review software fyi.
CM
I have a bachelor’s in accounting, and used Becker to review for the CPA exam. I can’t recommend it enough! It is expensive, but I was lucky enough to work at a company that reimbursed me after I passed, so you might see if your employer has any similar policy. I passed all four sections on the first try using the self-study DVD lectures and workbooks. I did not use any of my textbooks or notes from my accounting classes. In my opinion, Becker did a great job of laying out exactly what I needed to know for each part, and in fact, many of the questions I saw on the practice software were incredibly similar to the real exam ones. I have several friends who used Bisk and had good results with it, but I don’t know much about it personally. Good luck to you!
skl
Sell back your textbooks. I’m in the process of studying now,and only use my review books. Becker is great, but my firm is paying, so I never had to make the decision of whether or not it was worth it. Keep in mind, each part of the exam is a few hundred dollars, so it may be worth it to pay for Becker (or another course) to ensure that you are not failing and therefore shelling out a ton of money anyways.
I’m glad to see there are some CPA’s on here. I always feel its only lawyers. I will admit, I have tossed around the idea of eventually (I’m 22) going back to get my JD and possibly LLM in taxation. I just completed my masters in accounting (as it is now required to sit for the CPA exam).
Anonymous
I received a beautiful, classic – style gold watch as a graduation present this year. I’m 26 and worried that wearing something like that would be a) look too flashy and b) be age inappropriate (I’ve always thought of gold watches as an older style). Am I over thinking this?
Thanks!
LLH
Can you link to a photo of a similar watch? The devil is in the details…
Anonymous
OP here – it’s similar to this one, but in yellow gold
http://www.birks.com/en/featured/Watches-and-Timepieces/Watches-for-Her/g960/3000363881
Shayna
I think it looks fine – very classic… its when you start adding in diamonds/other stones that it starts looking too ‘blinged out’ — I think gold vs. silver is just a style preference, depending on what color jewelry you prefer to wear.
K3L
I think it’s great! But could you, to feel comfortable in your youth, switch out to a brown band for awhile first? That might help you get more comfortable with the gold, and you can use the gold band when you feel “of age.”
AN
It’s fine. Wear it in good health! And think of all those who are envying you for getting such a nice gift!
Anonymous
Oops, wrong link!
http://www.birks.com/en/featured/Watches-and-Timepieces/Watches-for-Her/g960/5000079458
divaliscious11
That’s a gorgeous watch…I’d wear and not think anything of it…. You are 26, not 17, why wouldn’t you have nice things?
Cat
agree
C
agree
Cindy
Agree!
LLH
It’s gorgeous and classic. Wear it proudly!
Chicago K
I think it’s great too. For what it’s worth, I am 30, so not that older than you. It looks classic and not flashy at all.
RKS
Gorgeous — wear and enjoy.
When I was 31, my husband and I bought each other watches for Christmas. Mine is an Tiffany & Co 18k gold watch with an oval face, somewhat similar to this: http://www.demesy.com/p/52038.html. No diamonds or bling. I love it and wear it daily.
KZ
Ok, job search question. I just graduated from law school and am still searching for a job. I’ve noticed a lot of job postings on our school’s site that say they want someone with one year of experience, which I obviously don’t have. However, should I apply to some of these anyway, or would it just be a waste of my time? (I suppose I’m really asking does a year of experience make such a huge difference–I know the learning curve is steep the first year, so I guess it does, but I’m getting desperate and wondering if I should be applying to these anyway)
Amanda
I’m not a lawyer, so my advice may be irrelevant, but all of the entry level jobs in my field say 1-2 years of experience, and we were told to apply for them anyway. So yes, definitely apply. The worst that can happen is that they don’t call, and a lot of times there is flexibility in regards to experience.
MelD
I have a friend who got a job that wanted experience right after she graduated last year, but she was referred by a professor at my school after doing similar work in a clinic. For the most part, I think employers at a minimum want someone who has passed the bar and is ready to practice immediately. If you haven’t taken the bar yet, then it will be at least 2 months until you can start work and another 1-4 depending on the state before you can get licensed.
N
I would definitely apply. If you don’t apply, you’re certainly not going to get anything…
Job advertisements in my field are also constantly asking for experience, which was frustrating when I came straight from school. Unless they asked for 10-15 years, I would send in an application anyway.
What I would do, though, would be to sum up summer jobs/internships/previous work that you’ve had, and mention what you’ve learnt from those experiences that would be useful for that job. Also mention if any classes you’ve taken during your studies covers the subject, and then specify something from that class as an example of something you liked/learned from.
The learning curve is steep the first year, but I would also be honest about being straight from school – but pointing out that this means that you’re used to being in a learning environment, picking up new knowledge all the time.
By using this approach, I was called in for interviews for the majority of the jobs I applied for – and I got an offer that had me starting even before I’d officially defended my thesis.
I don’t know about law, but my corporate firm actually appreciated that I hadn’t 10-15 years experience, as it made it more plausible that I would find it was easy to pick up the policies and practices of the firm.
The problem with missing a year of experience, unless you have a bundle of internships or summer jobs under your belt, is that it might be an overload to be in an office environment, and to practise all the things you’ve been studying at school.
Shayna
Statistics have shown that women are most likely to only apply for jobs if they meet 100% of the criteria, men if they meet 60% — and that that attributes to the faster career movements of men, which means that those men w/ 60% of the criteria get hired… so do it!
divaliscious11
With a single year of work requested, I’d apply. You probably DO have that much experience – did you do a clinic, work as a research assistant or law clerk, work during your first and second summer, participate in law review or other journal, appellate or trial advocacy? You need to construct your resume to reflect the work you’ve done….
By the time I graduated law school, I’d done two clinics, 2 semesters as a writing T/A, and 2 semesters of research assistant, 2 years on the trial team and 2 years on a law review as well as having been a summer at BigLaw.
My first year at BigLaw, was a lot of research and drafting…..
So if your law school experience bears ANY resemblance to mine, you HAVE the experience requested…. and probably more, but now you have to market yourself….
Eponine
I can’t speak for all employers, but we have been getting a lot of applications from recent grads and other underqualified people even when the job posting clearly requires experience, and this is hugely annoying to us. If the job listing says one year experience preferred rather than required, it’s worth applying, but if it says required they probably mean it. Clinical experience should count as experience, though.
Delta Sierra
Has anyone here tried on this designer’s wrap-dress? I like the neckline. At first I thought the hip-knot thing looked like too much, but it’s better when the model walks, looks as though the knot could be minimized.
http://www.isabellaoliver.com/womens-clothing/clearance/clearance-30/isabella-oliver-365-the-classic-cap-wrap-dress/D/30100/P/1:600:4050:405030/I/DR442
K
I tried their maternity stuff and ended up sending it all back – it just didn’t fit right and was too expensive for what it was. Also the necklines were lower than advertised (eg not good for work). I haven’t tried their ‘regular’ stuff though.
divaliscious11
If you buy, report back….dresses are my work uniform and these look pretty nice…
LawyrChk
Not impressed. Most of the dresses are WAY too sexy for my office, and I’m sorry, but jersey fabric is not worth $100+, IMHO. Silk, yes. Jersey, no.
Cat
The placement of the knot (va va look at my hips swing voom) was what drew my eye first — if that can be rearranged, looks like they are worth a try. Hard to tell if it’s the dress itself or the way the models are posed that make them look just a bit too much on the sexy side rather than feminine/flattering.
Another Anon
Just back from 15 days in Europe.
Took one carry-on sized bag and a small backpack, thanks to the article posted here recently.
It is possible to travel light! Thanks Corporette!
Anonymous
anyone know of a good jewelry repair place in DC/N.Va.?
North Shore
Behary’s, 14th & New York Ave., NW.
MM
I was very happy with the service at Tiny Jewel Box (near Dupont). Wendy is their jewelry repair person, and she was extraordinarily patient and helpful. I had a bunch of earring repairs done, including some relatively extensive earring conversion and repair on one set, and it was fantastic.
Alex8785
I am a summer associate and am going to my first “partner dinner” at one of the partner’s homes on Thursday. They said that the dinner was casual — what do I wear? Also, should I bring something to the house? Like a bottle of wine?
Thanks!!
SF Bay Associate
That’s kind of you, but don’t. In part because if the partner is actually into wine, then you don’t want to spend the kind of money it would take for a good bottle. And also if they are into wine, and you buy a bottle that doesn’t demonstrate wine knowledge, that might not reflect well on you, regardless of your good intentions.
If you are strongly inclined (my Asian heritage kind of demands a hostess gift, so I understand the powerful urge), then I’d suggest a small box of very nice chocolates. Small, like 4-6 pieces, far too small to open for all the guests and thus clearly meant for the hosts after everyone leaves.
Are you the only associate going? None of our summers have ever brought gifts for the partner’s home. What *was* noticed was very good manners, especially how the summer treats the caterers and staff. Also, whether the summers kept to conversations amongst themselves, or made an effort to politely and seamlessly insert themselves on their own into conversations with associates and partners.
Delta Sierra
As a host, I think wine is great, if you promise not to be offended if I don’t serve it that evening, as it might not fit in with what I’m serving by way of food. Flowers are also good. Some say not to bring flowers because of the host having to find a vase when there’s so much else to be done, but experienced hosts schedule things so they have reasonable time to spare by arrival time, and greet their guests in a relaxed manner.
AN
Pl do NOT bring flowers. When I host people, I always make it a point to buy flowers and to have guests come in with MORE of them means I have to scurry around finding vases or watch them slowly die.
Wine is good…or maybe a bottle of champagne if you’re not into wine. Posh chocs are good, ..or maybe a nice liqueur /port that they can enjoy when people have left? Check out the ice wine by Inniskillin (or similar Scottish name).
MelD
I couldn’t agree more. I am allergic to some types of flowers and really don’t have flowers in my house as a result. You really have no idea if the host/hostess is allergic, and unlike other gifts that are wrapped/bottled, the reaction to the flowers will start immediately.
L
From experience, I personally do not think a hostess gift is necessary in this type of situation. Most likely the firm is paying not only for the food and drink, but also the staff (if there are caterers or bartenders) and maybe even the cleaning staff for the partner. I would write the partner and his/her spouse a thank you note (or at least a thank you email) for hosting. That will get you further than a gift as a summer associate. It’ll be viewed as thoughtfulness, not brown-nosing.
As for what to wear, if there is time arranged for you to go home and change after work, I would wear nice pants, but perhaps more casual than what you wear to the office (maybe white or summery tailored pants) with a flowy top and a cardigan. Definitely not jeans. Think one step more casual than the office. You could wear a summery dress, but make sure not to have bare shoulders (cap sleeves are good; a cardigan is better).
Eponine
There was a thread a year or so ago on what to bring as a hostess gift. I think the consensus was that nice chocolates are best.
There was also a thread on what to wear at such things :). I don’t remember the consensus, but personally I’d wear dark jeans, some sort of shoe with a low heel, and a simple top with a cardigan. If it’s hot, I’d wear a non-revealing sundress and bring a cardigan in case they crank the AC.
RR
These tend to be big things at my firm – catered for 50+ people. No one brought hostess gifts. No one. People wore khakis and polos (men), dressy capris, sandals, and summery shirts (women).
MJ
I’m a partner, and I wouldn’t expect anything. This is a business event, not a social event, and I understand that you don’t have any money and certainly shouldn’t be spending what little you have on me. Also, I don’t want chocolate, since I’m trying to watch my cholesterol. I think RR (an earlier commenter) has it right.
MJ
And I forgot to add: but a thank-you note or even an email afterwards would be nice. It’s a lot of work to have a party at your house, even if it is catered. Sending a note afterwards saying something nice about the party couldn’t hurt.
Anon
Please don’t bring wine unless you know that the host and his/her spouse/partner/whomever drink alcohol. It’s just awkward for hosts who don’t drink for religious, recovery, or other reasons – some people don’t keep alcohol or serve alcohol in their homes, and so unless you know otherwise, I wouldn’t.