This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
After several winters of pretending that my ankles weren’t cold with ankle-length or cropped pants, this year I’m really leaning into full-length trousers. (Yes, I’m wearing boots and socks, but I live in the Northeast and the frigid air will always find a way in.)
These pull-on knit pants from Eloquii are a perfect basic, whether you’re pairing them with a classic pump or a Bean boot.
The pants are $82.95 full price at Eloquii and come in sizes 14–28. Today you can get 50% off select styles!
Psst: check out our latest thoughts on the best trouser lengths for women!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Notinstafamouso
A propos of nothing, did you see that there’s an attorney who wasn’t allowed into a Rockettes show (on a personal trip) because she works at a firm that’s involved in a lawsuit against Madison Square Garden? I find this bonkers! Apparently their facial recognition program picked her up.
Notinstafamouso
Link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/girl-scout-mom-kicked-rockettes-041717514.html
Anon for this
I don’t know this woman but I do IRL know an attorney who’s subject to the same ban. She finds it absolutely hysterical.
Bortchy
The petty B, defense attorney in me is LIVING for this drama. The NYC Plaintiffs Bar is out of control and wields too much power and I love to see them suffer.
The normal, non-attorney person in me is embarrassed by the judicial resources being wasted on all of these jerks (see: the ensuing *emergency* motion practice)
Anon
MSG is flexing its power to place a chilling effect on attorneys providing representation to potential plaintiffs. This practice should be void for public policy, but they will probably get away with it.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s bonkers, there are linkages between your employer and your values. I’ve always picked my employers carefully (or rather only applied to jobs I was okay with).
Anonymous
Are you Scrooge? It’s just working at a law firm filing a normal law suit.
No Face
What “values” does this attorney have that are problematic? She happens to work at a law firm that happens to represent a plaintiff suing the parent company of the venue. She’s not even representing the plaintiff! The plaintiff isn’t even suing that particular venue!
The idea that they uploaded *every* attorney at the law firm to their facial recognition program to ban them from all their venues is bonkers to me too. And I represent companies!
AIMS
Especially problematic given how many tax breaks MSG gets from NY.
Also – the privacy implications of all this are terrifying.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
The issue is it opening the door to making it harder to go against big corporations. To the extreme, who wants to go against a Ticketmaster or airline or other entity involved in so much day to day living if you can never use them again? And as you move on from employer to employer does the brand against you still stay? Perhaps with AI it occurs even after you’ve left an employer and the former employer goes against someone? You know, same values and all. Because that can’t change over time and must be universal throughout an organization.
But, yeah, take it as affirmation to be on a high horse….?
Doodles
That’s not really a choice when you work for a business that has hundreds/thousands of clients. As a lawyer in Biglaw, I couldn’t refuse working on matters for clients whose “values” (whatever those were) didn’t align with my own. The only option was to quit. Also, this woman works for a personal injury firm. How is that not aligned with her values? Her firm happens to be suing a restaurant owned by Madison Square Garden. Maybe it was a slip and fall case against the restaurant or something. She’s not even working on that case and is not a NY attorney. She wasn’t even going to dine at that restaurant. I’m confused as to what she should have done differently when choosing her employer?
Anon
And maybe the shit is justified? Or appears to be? What is wrong with a person getting his or her day in court? And having the expectation that we will be held to account for our actions. Where is the wrong here?
Anonymous
People just hate hate PI attorneys. I have another post in mod but I think it’s because PI plaintiffs tend to be poor.They just hate the idea that a poor person’s pain or suffering could cause a corporation to pay what they see as big bucks (and often isn’t when someone’s life and livelihood have been forever altered.) I was PI attorney for a while and never got the distain. I did BI defense and was much more sick to my stomach defending a company that caused an old lady’s death due to their negligence than representing a plaintiff in any slip and fall. But people don’t think insurance defense lawyers should be banned from taking their kids to see the rocketts.
No Face
Maybe you meant the “suit” is justified, but I like this typo.
Doodles
I’m not sure why you were replying this to me. I wasn’t commenting on whether the law suit was justified or unjustified. How would any of us know that? It very well could be justified. I don’t think that matters. There is no “wrong” here other than from MSG. I was commenting on this poster’s claim that this lawyer should have picked an employer that better aligned with her “values.”
Anon at 1122
I meant for my post to build on yours because I thought you made good points and I agreed. I apologize for the confusion!
Anonymous
I mean I get that you all hate PI attorneys but representing an individual who suffered an injury due to the negligence of a very large corporation is not morally problematic to me. That’s not to say there are not morally problematic PI attorneys, suits and practices, but on its face we shouldn’t hate the concept of seeking restitution for one’s injuries. I’m concerned about the ramifications of banning counsel who help injured people seek damages from the public sphere.
Anon
Most law firms have way sketchier clients than people suing Madison Square Garden.
Anonymous
No one likes MSG.
Anon
Whoa that’s crazy!!!
AIMS
She’s not the only one! The NY tabloids have been all over this story – or I guess, stories. https://nypost.com/2022/12/21/lawyer-flagged-by-msg-facial-recognition-removed-from-knicks-game/
Anon
One story I read said she’s considering filing a complaint with the board that manages NY state liquor licenses, because of some provision in liquor licensing regulations that requires license holders to admit basically everyone unless they pose an immediate safety threat to the facility or the patrons. Anyone know more about this? It seems like it could be an interesting twist!
Anonymous
I suspect this is less about retaliation and more about limiting access to the facility for people involved in litigation with MSG.
Anon
My areas utilities provide light and warmth to all sorts of good people and a few rotten ones. What to make of working there or say the EMT agency or a hospital or grocery store?
A relative was killed by a drunk driver with a revoked license who was back out driving. I don’t see plaintiff’s lawyers as inherently evil.
Trish
This is not my area of law but I think the conservative courts will not like this expansive use of AI and the privacy intrustion.
Anon
I’m surprised almost no-one is disturbed by this level of “security” intrusion.
Anon
Oh, I am super-disturbed by it! Just not sure how we stop it now that it’s out there. I had no idea it had progressed this far or was being used in this way, so I think maybe I am naive or out of the loop.
Anonymous
I saw this story and find it terrifying and outrageous. To the horrifyingly ignorant Anon 10:10: it’s absolutely bonkers and it’s clear you have no concept about the ideals of the American legal system and legal ethics. Those plaintiffs have a right to legal counsel and it is borderline unethical for MSG’s attorneys to be facilitating such a ban. I hope this story breaks widely and that the plaintiff firms go hard after MSG and file bar complaints against the MSG attorneys. his is exactly the type of incident I would expect to hear about in Russia. This type of abusive behavior has no place on our legal system or in a democracy.
Anon
I have a client who did this because opposing counsel kept sending his staff to take photographs or talk to staff under the guise of being “just customers”.
And then in the end they tried to get photographs they took when they literally broke into a closed area into evidence and the judge was like “yeah – no”.
Anon
That is not the same.
Anon
There will be more daylight today than yesterday, turning a corner toward light and warmth and hope. Joy to all the ‘rettes.
Celia
This is lovely. Thank you – I needed it!
Curious
Me, too. Thank you!
Explorette
Same. It’s been a hard few days, and this gives me hope!
Anon
Has the winter storm impacted anyone’s holiday travels? We thankfully were able to drive yesterday versus Saturday as planned.
Anne-on
We’ve asked our immediate family to drive Friday vs. Saturday as in the Northeast it looks like Friday is mostly rain vs. the inevitable freeze/black ice that will happen on Saturday. More time with grandparents/cousins so my kid is pysched. I’m making an emergency grocery store run as I hasn’t planned on feeding 6 people for an extra day but oh well.
Carrots
I pushed my travel back to early Saturday instead of Friday into PA because of the weather – give everything a chance to dry off from the snow/rain melt/freeze that will happen today into Friday.
Anonymous
Our family is trying to fly in tonight instead of Friday night, but we’ll see if their plane can get out before the storm hits (Chicago to DC).
Anon
Starting to get yucky in Chicago now…hope they can get out!
Chl
My family coming from DC to chicago got in this morning!
Anonymous
My family is all local, so no plans to be ruined but feels like it may be the beginning to Planes, Trains, and Automobiles !
Anon
My local-ish parents (they’re here about half the time) came in Wednesday and we’re all hunkered down together. I think we’ll be doing a LOT of cooking and baking. Between the storm tonight and tomorrow and the Christmas holiday over the weekend I don’t anticipate being able to get much takeout or Doordash.
Anon
Seeing people: a M in pants was too snug in the hips/ upper thighs. A L fits in those areas but only if I fold over the elastic waist (otherwise: way too much fabric volume). How easy or hard would it be to have someone just turn the elastic waist of the L pants under a turn and see it nicely so that the labels and raw edges don’t show? If that is an unrealistic ask, I won’t bother the tailor and will just improvise (a La Tim Gunn, make it work!).
Anon
I need an edit feature: this is for SEWING people.
ATL
I would assume it would be a fairly simple job, but take it to a tailor and see what they say!
nuqotw
I am a very basic sewer. I would attempt this on casual pants myself but take it to a tailor if it were anything I wanted to wear to work.
Anon
An elastic waist should be easy to tailor.
Anonymous
Medium skilled sewist here: If the elastic is in a fabric casing (like a string would be on a hoodie), you could try to just fold the casing over and stitch it – but you might not like the result because it is likely going to roll around and bunch up on you when you wear the pants. The ‘correct’ way to fix this is to rip the stitching for the casing out, remove the elastic, and remake the casing- all of that is probably a job for a tailor or someone with a sewing machine and some confidence. BUT If the elastic is just a thick band that is stitched to the pants body (which most pants these days are), then I would definitely fold it over and stitch it myself. Hand stitching would be pretty easy. If you don’t like it when you’re finished, just rip it out- no harm done and possibly you’ve saved yourself a tailoring fee! Good luck! You can do it!
Anon
I have a laundry question. I have some thick washcloths. They have some pinkish stains on them. Not makeup. Is it some mildew funk? Can I get this out with an oxyclean soak or just get new thinner ones and use the pink stained ones as rags?
Anon
Probably just color they picked up from something else in the wash. Once it’s warmed up a little, soak in oxyclean and hang out to dry in direct sunlight for a few hours.
Anon
Does anyone in your house use products with salicylic acid? It bleaches my wash clothes and turns them pink
Anon
Or benzoyl peroxide. This sounds like bleaching and probably wouldn’t come out.
BeenThatGuy
This. It happens with benzoyl peroxide too. My teenagers sheets and towels are disaster because of it.
nuqotw
What was the original color? It could be benzoyl peroxide (very common) or other chemical interaction with a soap/body wash. In any case, I’d wash/dry them, with oxyclean if you like, and not worry that there is any kind of hazard to use them as washcloths.
Anon
I would soak it overnight in Oxyclean Sanitizer. Could be mildew or they could be bleached
Anon
Op here: no one used BP or salicylic acid and all washcloths are white. It isn’t happening on old or cheap or thin washcloths. Just the fancy ones I got in an upgrade attempt and then mainly on the trim ( vs the Terry part). The works are OK, it is just happening in the washcloths and then on the trim. They get the wettest and maybe don’t fully dry? Could they be too thick? Maybe I just can’t have nice things???
Cat
Wash them with real honest-to-god bleach. They’re white. That’s what it’s for.
Anon
I had always thought that bleach yellowed white things so was in Team Oxyclean (or bluing or vinegar or amonia). But really I wish for a sunny day because the sun will really bleach anything. Too bad it is 33 and raining. Yuck.
For the “Normal” Anon from Yesterday
From someone trying not to have long COVID.
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/12/21/Ten-Downplayed-COVID-Facts/
Anonymous
That is entirely not fact-based reporting. That’s fear-mongering.
Anon
That was my reaction as well. The piece reads as opinion, not reporting, and that news website is questionable, to say the least. If the conclusions in the article are accurate, surely the OP could have found legitimate news sources to share.
Squeak
While the reviews of the article are certainly warranted, The Tyee is a well-regarded online paper based out of Victoria, BC. While it skews BC-left, it is entirely legitimate and they do good reporting.
Oh so anon
Say what you will about the article, but I think that, in general, The Tyee is well respected. It is here in BC, anyway.
Anon
I don’t love the Tyree and realize there’s a lot of opinion in this piece, but which factual claims aren’t supported? I realize that a published study isn’t always the last word on a topic. But isn’t all of this being researched and published on right now?
thanksgiving anxiety
It seems like I should know at least 1 person with long covid if it’s so prevalent.
My theory is that I’m exposed to COVID so often that I’m constantly re-boosting my immunity, but I totally made that up. Kind of makes sense though right?
Anon
I know a lot of people with long Covid, particularly if you include people who symptoms for longer than a month but have since recovered (which I think is the official definition?). I think it’s weird that you don’t. And there’s also a lot of hidden organ damage that you can’t see. We won’t see the full repercussions of heart and brain damage for years or decades.
Anonymous
Pay attention when friends, parents and mentors start dying 20-40 years earlier than you thought they would — I think that’s going to be the upside of all the organ damage and it’s the main reason I try to keep my viral load low.
Anon
This is fearmongering. Zero evidence to support that this will actually happen.
Anon
I don’t believe everyone who had COVID is going to die decades early. I have never understood why fearmongering would be any worse than downplaying, but we can’t tell the future either way. I think most people will eventually heal if they can go long enough without reinfection just because this is how most things go.
There obviously is evidence of premature aging of multiple kinds, and the CDC has started to publish stats on mortality from long COVID. We know there’s excess all-cause mortality in people who have COVID but not in people who have not. So we’re already seeing some of this.
DC Anon
I had long COVID (and I still rely on a daily controller inhaler to breathe normally two years later) and know at least five other people who did too. I likewise don’t share this information with everyone because there are still a lot of people out there who don’t believe in long COVID. We all know people who have/had long COVID, we just might not realize it.
Anonymous
I have long covid and i haven’t shared widely beyond my close friends and family because people are such jerks about it, and i’m trying to focus my meager energy on resting, healing, and seeking useful medical help with a diagnosis that has very few clear treatments and courses of action
exhausted anon
Same, still can’t exercise or exert myself, and I sleep from 8pm to 8am every night and am still exhausted. People are not understanding. I had covid 4 months ago.
Junior Associate
Same.
Elle
I wish Christmas were more about spending time with family (a la Thanksgiving or Easter) than it is about gifts. I feel like I’m failing every year- no matter how thoughtful I am or how much I plan ahead. It’s exhausting.
Anon
I’m Jewish so we obviously don’t celebrate Christmas but for Hanukkah we decided to only get gifts for my 5 young nieces and nephews and my two parents. Otherwise I have 5 siblings and some are married so there were years I was trying to get gifts for nearly 20 people. We cut that out so we can have a more enjoyable holiday season.
nuqotw
We have no-adult-gift agreements with all of our siblings and a $25 ballpark limit for nibling gifts. We enjoy some gifts but it’s not the main event. (The main event is a week of dessert.) Honestly I’ve started giving the niblings on my side a fancy chocolate bar and $20 cash. They like candy, they like money, and my siblings like that these things don’t take up space in their homes.
Anon
Yeah Hanukkah is a kids only holiday in our family. I think that’s less common with Christmas though.
Anon
Same.
anonshmanon
It is for some people. Can you talk to those that celebrate with you? They might feel the same.
Anon
+1 my in laws are into the gift craziness but my side of the family isn’t. Having that conversation with my family has made Christmas so much more fun and less stressful. We don’t do gifts for adults and kids get something small at a family activity (think we go see a show together and the kids all get a souvenir)
Anon
This is our family set-up too. My husband actually thinks Christmas at my parents is too similar to Thanksgiving lol.
Anne-on
Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday BECAUSE there is no expectation of gifts/advent calendar/cards/decorating. Just family and food – perfect!
Vicky Austin
Yes! #TeamThanksgiving
Anne-on
This – it took a few years but we’re now firmly in the ‘gifts are only for the kids’ mindset on both sides. My side will do very small gifts to the older generation which are usually photos/family memorablia – like photobooks, a framed picture of a family trip or school photos, a framed/restored version of an old family photo that only one person had, etc. but those are not at all expected. We’ll also do a small hostess gift for the family hosting the meal (wine/chocolates/fancy candles).
Cat
Could you suggest gifting experiences together rather than items as a middle ground? Like, one year I got my parents tickets to a show and we went together in the spring.
Anon
In our family, the adults do a “Secret” Santa exchange, and so do the kids amongst each other. That’s it. No other family presents at all, other than our own kids. It’s been a game changer in terms of holiday stress.
Anokha
Honestly, same. I always feel so Grinchy, but gift-giving stresses me out, and I wish we could just stop.
Grinch
Call me a grinch, but we’ve just about stopped exchanging Christmas and birthday presents outside of our nuclear family.
Gifts from aunties and uncles who live far away and don’t know a child well tend to miss the mark. All the families are well off enough that the kids have pretty much everything they want in the normal Christmas present price range. Less stress, less expense, everyone is happier.
I do tend to give generous gifts to the young relatives with whom I’m close when there’s something like a graduation or a specific need. They’ve also been instructed to come to us if they have a need (like funding for study abroad).
Anon
I just buy for my parents, brother, sister, and one aunt/uncle (thry don’t have kids and we’re very, very close) so the gift giving I do is pretty minimal and I still find it utterly exhausting. I think it’s the time of year and the weather, at least for me.
I do wish that my extended family still gathered for Christmas, but they don’t
Anon
And adding that our gifts are mostly practical or experience. Mom and dad both got experience gifts, 25 yr old sister got an album, 22yr old brother got a game, aunt got a new chefs knife, uncle got a new winter hat + cookies from his favorite bakery.
I asked for workout leggings, a mixer, 10lb weights, a bathrobe.
My mom usually throws in a few just fun gifts but overall gifts are mostly practical.
Renewing the family’s Spotify plan is always a Christmas gift, too.
Anon
Christmas gifts are for children only. I don’t buy gifts for grow ups and that’s it.
thanksgiving anxiety
Now that my cousins and I are no longer the youngest generation in the family, I’m starting to agree with this. It’s fun to gift “down” to kids or young adults who don’t have full time jobs and really appreciate you picking out stuff for them. I still enjoy giving gifts to immediate family members because I know things they wouldn’t buy for themselves and really enjoy, but it’s more about the thought and it’s usually more of a token item. One side of the family gives each other $100 gift cards and it seems like this pointless $ transfer.
Trish
For a long time, we had the only little kid in the family and he is a boy. I nixed the idea that presents are only for the child because I wasn’t trying to raise my son to think he was the baby Jesus.
Anon
On my mom’s side of the family kids get gifts until they’re married or 30 but on my dad’s side everyone gives to everyone, mostly because my aunt is a shopaholic.
We also now only do gifts with those that we’ll see for the holiday.
anon
I agree. Sometimes it just feels so forced and obligatory.
No Face
Agree. I grew up with Christmas as Relaxation Time so the gift giving frenzy of my husband’s family is stressful and unpleasant to me.
AIMS
I would try to fix this. Maybe you can get your family to do a secret Santa or no gifts for grown ups to fix this. You can also just not participate as much.
Anonymous
I tried to talk to my mom about this once and it ended in the biggest argument we’ve ever had. Not really an argument, I guess, just me bringing it up and her screaming at me, storming out and not speaking to me for weeks. It ruined an entire Christmas season and I’m never touching this subject again. Price of admission for this relationship, I suppose. I front load my 401k so I can buy several thousand dollars worth of gifts each year. She and my dad are getting a fancy pizza oven and I’m sick to my stomach that it comes on time.
anonshmanon
ugh, I’m sorry anon. Hope you still find some peace during the holidays!!!
roxie
girl what. do you hear yourself?
Sick to your stomach over a gift for someone who is supposed to unconditionally love and support you?
A reminder that one does not have to be in a relation ship with one’s abusive mother. You have the power here.
Anon
Dissenting voice here, I love the gifting part. I avoid the stress by thinking about it early though and I’ve usually finished shopping by Halloween. That way I can just find little things for people I see in December for low key giving or add to a present. I think it’s fun.
Anon
+1 I love it too, but I plan way ahead. I actually keep a spreadsheet of what I’ve given each year so I don’t duplicate, and start choosing gifts in early September.
Anon
We only do gifts for kids. Adults give nuts or chocolates to eat other and we munch on it together.
Anon
I only have two siblings, both sisters, and we get each other gifts but we don’t gift the kids. This came about because one year my one sister didn’t get any gifts while the kids were absolutely deluged with gifts from parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles from both sides. So my other sister and i talked and decided to get each other gifts so that there was always something to open on Christmas. It has worked well for us. The kids never noticed any difference!
Anonymous
I actually really like the gift giving and would be bummed if my family chose to do away with it!
Anon
Me too! I also think exhaustion is a state of mind. You can procrastinate and view it as a chore and then of course it’s going to be terrible. If you view it as “oh I like this thing a lot, bet my sis would too, let me get that for her for the holidays” then it’s just shopping. And shopping is fun.
Anonymous
I agree – gift giving is fun and it’s only stressful if you make it stressful!
Anon
Gift giving is fun for some people but not others!
Doing something I don’t enjoy (and actively dislike being on the receiving end) is irritating and stressful.
I get that some people love it and exchange gifts with those people because they love it. But I’m also super grateful to the people in my life who have been honest about their mutual dislike of gifting and we can both agree to not gift to each other and are so much happier neither giving nor receiving presents from each other.
anon
The gift giving exhausts me too. My in laws are VERY into gift giving and although my husband buys the gifts for his family, it’s hard for me to feign excitement over everything his family buys me. This year it was a blanket with a Bible verse printed on it (we are not religious), candy apples, a charm bracelet, and loads of other random things I will never ever use. It’s not like they’re thoughtful curated gifts, it’s just stuff for the sake of stuff.
anon
We stopped Xmas gifting with immediate family few years back and now we just get together and enjoy the time together. This was probably triggered by a) realizing we are all well-off enough to be able to get things we need/want in our lives and b) parents / sister / myself living in 3 different countries so it really is a special occasion for us to meet during the year.
If any of us had kids, we would do gifts for kids, but not adults.
Never looked back, really happy we did this switch.
Anonymous
My husband and I decided years and years ago that we just weren’t doing gifts for each other for any gifting occasion (yes, including birthdays) and we think it’s delightful, but damn does my mother judge it hard.
Anon
Same! Love not having the pressure of gifting. It also makes it way more fun when we randomly buy each other something just because (these are super little things usually, like a funko pop or a specialty candy).
My mother in law thinks I’m a terrible wife for not buying husband a bunch of cr@p he doesnt want. And thinks my husband is an awful husband for not buying me jewelry or whatever nonsense she thinks is necessary to show love
Anokha
Is anyone doing New Years resolutions? I think I want mine to be related to better sleep habits.
Cb
I want to cut my screen time dramatically and do a fun konmari of the house. It’s only 1000 square feet and we are fairly minimalist but we’ve been here two years and life has been so chaotic, I’m not sure everything has a proper place.
Anokha
I love it! A few years ago, I spent the holidays watching the Marie Kondo show on Netflix in real time as I worked my way through our small 2 bedroom apartment. (Although I think that might conflict with the cutting screen time resolution. I also love that as a resolution.)
Cb
Haha, I watch basically no tv, just stupid internet time.
Anon
I’m going to do some version of a buy nothing year. Working out the categories that I need in my brain. Definitely clothes and beauty products plus random impulse buys. I’ve done before and generally do ok with being able to replace something essential that is worn out or used up but I’ve just gotten into some bad dopamine retail therapy habits.
Celia
Same. This was my resolution a few years ago and I loved it. The last two years were a gradual return to retail therapy though.
Anonymous
I suspect society would be more civil if we all got more sleep
Trish
Sleep and regular eating. I had a late afternoon MRI appointment and about lost my mind when I waited over an hour. The receptionist found a donut in the breakroom that had been there all day with pink frosting and spinkles that kept me from going full Karen. I am going to stock my car and purse with snack bars from now on!
Anon
I used to make big resolutions and not meet them. Two years ago I made my resolution to floss every night, and I’m doing it again this year. It is an achievable goal and I have achieved it!
Anokha
I love this and might steal this :)
Vicky Austin
It is way colder than anyone in TX knows how to handle, but because the usual rule at my office is “follow the school district” and they’re not in session right now anyway, here I am at the office with only trainings to do. Sigh. Maybe I should ask to WFH tomorrow for the four hours not covered by automatic office holiday.
Whoever else is in this boat, holler! I’m sure I’ll be all over this thread today.
Anonymous
My gym cancelled classes this evening and tomorrow morning because of the cold (I’m in TN, so it’s coming, but hasn’t hit us quite yet). I would be all for calling out because of it, Vicky!
Anonymous
I’m in Texas as well and work in higher ed. Today’s our last day before campus closes so we are just eating our way through the day with a morning and lunch potluck. So far our heat is still working (fingers crossed). I don’t expect any actual work out of anyone and campus is dead. I will probably send the staff home after lunch to “work from home” and staff the office myself.
Vicky Austin
I wish you were my boss!
Anonymous
Awww! Well if I am not in the headspace to be very productive I can’t expect that of people who report to me. There’s another office on campus that is doing a PJ party today which I think is a great idea. I would have loved to wear my cozy fleece PJs to the office today but instead I wore my sequined top because I only have a few opportunities to wear it. It’s also bring your pet to work day here and it’s been fun seeing different dogs.
pugsnbourbon
We’ve been on break since last Friday but I’ve been working since Saturday bc this install is taking FOREVER. I finished my IT and misconduct trainings on Sunday, read almost an entire book on Monday (it was bad, ugh) and am 1/4 of the way through a professional development program now.
I’m tracking my hours bc I’ll get flex time. Planning to take off most Fridays in January/Feb.
Anonymous
Yes, nervous here in Houston! I have a hard time believing officials who say our power grid will hold, after what happened in Feb 2021. I have 2 big work deadlines, and it’s hard to concentrate. I’ve done about all the prep I can. Battery flashlights gathered, solar lights charging, car jumper is charged, portable phone charger is charged. I brought my bottled water stash in from the outdoor closet so that it won’t freeze. I caught up on laundry in case I can’t wash clothes for a while. This evening I’m going to do a full shower and hair wash, and then fill the bathtubs with water so there’s water to flush the toilets. Full-on hurricane mode, but for cold weather.
Houstonian
If it helps, I work in the utility sector and the power really should stay on. We’re working to improve the grid, so we’re not affiliated with any utility and my boss is pretty confident we should be fine this time around.
Anon
I’m frustrated by the outlook sometimes expressed here that high risk people who are still taking pandemic precautions are just out of touch. This is a pretty bad time in the pandemic.
Can we at least acknowledge that vaccines have changed nothing for people for whom vaccines don’t work, and neither vaccination programs nor people catching COVID have produced an immunity wall or “herd immunity” that adequately prevents transmission? Last year we had Evusheld, but this year the only official advice for people without vaccine immunity is “stay home.” Fully vaccinated people can be asymptomatically contagious, and rapid tests are less sensitive to current variants (though still better than nothing).
A lot of COVID mortality among the high risk is only showing up in excess mortality stats, because a COVID infection can start the domino effects that lead to dying of a previously manageable but now refractory pre-existing condition. But people are still dying directly from acute COVID infections as well as from so-called long COVID. This is not counting all the cases of flu, RSV, and strep that may be more severe than usual in people who had Omicron earlier this year. The hospitals are strained and once again need us to “flatten the curve” since too many people are getting sick at once.
People can take any risks they want, and I get that many people are just tired of this going on so long, so they’re taking fewer precautions now than at objectively safer times in the pandemic. People are free to decide what’s important to them. But there are many people for whom the pandemic is actually more dangerous now than it was this time last year.
Here are some numbers from this past year (things have almost certainly gotten worse since then): https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/C9h0Z/11/#
Anon
I think we can acknowledge that high risk people taking lots of precautions is both very reasonable and also different from what most people are doing right now. It’s completely understandable, but you can’t just assume that people know you don’t want to interact with anyone in person unless you tell them, since that’s not what most people are doing. I say this as someone who isn’t even especially high risk and still doesn’t go indoors unmasked right now, as it’s just not worth it to me (I WFH in CA, so it’s easy to avoid).
Anonymous
The problem is not that cautious people need to communicate better. It is that people who are still taking precautions are judged harshly, that society has decided not to invest in sensible cost-effective precautions such as ventilation in schools, and that social pressure is leading some who would otherwise remain cautious (e.g., my husband who insists on going to the office once or twice a week without a mask because “people look at me funny and it’s unmanly”) to give up and abandon precautions.
Anon
You’ve been beating this very dead horse on this website for 2+ years and the response today is no different than the one we’ve had previously: if you know of some way where we can all snap our fingers and get people to change and be less selfish and more considerate of others, please, for the love of God share it because we’re in desperate need of that, and not just because of Covid. I would love for people to change and be different and be more thoughtful – that would benefit all of us hugely. But I don’t see that happening.
I also think you might want to look into marriage counseling, if you’re viewing your own husband with contempt and negativity over his taking an action that (it sounds to me) he may need to do to continue to earn a living. Also maybe consider that if your husband thinks what you’re asking for is unreasonable – and he lives with you, knows your health issues, understands your risks, etc. – maybe what you are asking for is, actually, out of bounds and/or doesn’t make sense.
Anon
I agree we should have used the “down time” at the beginning of the pandemic to invest in better ventilation. That would have been the best time. The second best time is any time since then, and since we still haven’t really done it, the best time is now. It’s very frustrating.
I do not think it’s a dead horse, per the prior poster who has decided to diagnose you with anxiety, which is a sh1tty and regular thing on this board that needs to stop.
Anon
This commenter has been here for the last three years talking about the same things,over and over, repeatedly, and getting the same feedback and responses every time. She was gone for awhile (although clearly still reading) and now she’s back, for reasons I can’t address. Nowhere in the above comment was the person “diagnosed with anxiety,” as you say. Someone who is complaining that her own husband is being insensitive to her needs has some stuff going on that needs some address by people who are not on this blog. I think the suggestion was appropriate.
Anonymous
Omg we get it. But yesterday was about someone who expected others to somehow magically read her mind. Be as cautious as you want! But it’s weird to pretend like what you are doing is so normal And common Place people should just be able to figure it out with zero communication
Anonymous
+1
AIMS
I’ve had a busy couple of months so haven’t been reading as much but is anyone taking the specific position that high risk people shouldn’t take precautions if they want to? I know plenty of people who are largely just “done,” myself included, but I would never judge or take a position on what someone else does in that situation. I think we all have to have an independent assessment. That includes people who may be high risk but don’t want to give up any more time for whatever reasons (we have several older relatives in this camp – they know they have limited time left and they don’t want to miss any time with family or doing whatever it is they want to do), but it also includes people who opt to still mask, not socialize indoors, work from home, etc.
Anonymous
Nope! No one is
anonshmanon
I’m sure some commenters do judge (because that’s inevitable), but others say ‘out of touch’ as a shorthand to mean ‘it’s different enough from what most people do that you can’t expect them to read your mind and anticipate your priorities, so you need to use your words’.
Anon
This.
Cat
Yes, this, everyone in my family & friends circle is back to normal because no one is high risk. We’d be happy to take precautions if asked, but the going assumption is “you’re good with parties and indoor dining and socializing” unless told otherwise.
Anon
+1
Out of touch = this is not what the majority of people are doing and so while you are obviously more than welcome to do what you are comfortable with, you should also realize that many, many people aren’t doing this anymore
More of the older or high risk people I know are going for the quantity over quality approach, too. And every non-high risk person I know is “done” like AIMS said, even those who were once very cautious
Anonymous
If it is any consolation, there are a lot of us out here, and it has revealed things about our fellow man that are both unflattering and unforgettable.
Anon
I am curious. Now that Covid is essentially endemic, what precautions do you still expect average people to take and for how long?
Anon
I’m not OP but I think masking when case counts is high is a very small ask, and not only protects high risk people, but eases the burden on hospitals and healthcare providers. People in Asia have been masking like this for years. I think it would become more normal here.
And even if a person chooses not to make, that should not be license to berate someone who does. (has happened to me)
Anon
“People in Asia have been masking like this for years. I think it would become more normal here.”
To quote The I.T. Crowd: “Have you met people? What a bunch of b*stards.”
Like I agree with you 100% and it’s baffling to me that we have Covid, flu and RSV going around and people aren’t wearing masks. But if you watched the news during the pandemic, it should not be a surprise.
“And even if a person chooses not to make, that should not be license to berate someone who does. (has happened to me)”
Completely agree with this and I am sorry that happened to you. I hope you told the person to f-off, and if I had been in earshot, I would have said it for you.
Anonymous
It would sure be nice if public health officials would advocate for the simple wearing of masks in public spaces that people are not able to avoid. Hospitals, doctors offices, transportation, etc. Improve ventilation in building codes. Keep people from working in those unavoidable work situation I noted above if they have Covid. Not permit travel if you had a positive test. The hospitals right now – esp pediatric ones – are swamped like they were during 2020 covid because of the tripledemic and nobody seems to care.
Anon
Yep, that sure would be nice! But we live in the real world, not the make-believe world, and I think we’ve said this before: we’re not the people to vent to about the need for major policy changes in U.S. public health policy. Are you sending these suggestions to the CDC, or to your senator(s) and representatives? Probably a better use of energy than continuing to post about it here – we can’t do anything about it.
Anon
There’s a way out, but it’s a one-way ticket, destination unknown. Might be better to figure out some coping mechanisms and find joy where you can vs. continuing to view everything as hopeless and everyone else as narcissistic.
Anonymous
+1000
Anonymous
To answer, yes, I have advocated for this with public health officials and my representatives. I also do it through a disease advocacy organization I am on the Boord of. Doesn’t matter because even if the CDC told everyone to do this, they wouldn’t anymore. People suck.
Anon
I’m asking this very sincerely, and am genuinely curious to hear your response, if you are willing to share. For people without vaccine immunity, or for people who are immunocompromised, is COVID different than the risks inherent with the other, deadly diseases that also previously existed, such as the flu or RSV? I guess the question is, does COVID require you to take precautionary steps now that you didn’t have to take pre-COVID, or said differently, is it because of how COVID attacks the body that you are taking precautions now that you didn’t have to take previously during flu seasons or RSV outbreaks? Genuinely curious, and hoping that OP (or anyone) takes the question with the spirit intended!
Anon
There’s no RSV vaccine (yet – I understand one is close to market) and everyone over the age of about 30 grew up without flu vaccines, so someone for whom those vaccines don’t work isn’t really in a different situation than the rest of us were not too long ago. Whereas with Covid, there is a huge statistical difference between outcomes for vaccinated vs unvaccinated, and it makes sense that someone who is essentially unvaccinated not by choice would feel the need to be extremely cautious. So no I wouldn’t expect the same precautions to be necessary for flu and RSV.
Fwiw, I’m immunocompromised but not in a way that affects the ability of vaccines to do their job. I’m Covid cautious (still masking in public indoors, no indoor dining) but it’s because of elderly parents and the desire to avoid long Covid/longterm organ damage, not because of fear of the acute illness. I don’t believe I would be hospitalized if I got Covid now that I’m vaccinated. But if I had reason to believe the vaccines wouldn’t work for me, then I would be worried about the acute illness too.
Anon
RSV is the common cold though? It got a fancy name this year.
Anon
Huh? No. RSV is totally different than the common cold. Colds are rhinoviruses. RSV is respiratory syncytial virus. Not much risk to anyone who isn’t an infant, but very serious for babies. And lol to the idea that RSV is new this year. Anyone who has had babies knows it’s not a new thing at all. This year’s outbreak was especially bad, but there have been other bad years, including winter 2017-18 when my daughter was born.
Celia
No. RSV is something I think most parents are very familiar with! My kids got it when they were little, and while they were pretty okay, several of their classmates had to get on oxygen when it went around the school. It is not just a cold especially for infants
Anon
This is inaccurate.
Anon
No it’s not
Anon
No, it’s not. The common cold is rhinovirus. RSV has always caused issues, primarily in the very young and the very old. One of the probable reasons it is hitting so hard this year is so many young kids are getting their first exposure to it.
Anonymous
Cold symptoms for big kids and adults, but pretty severe sickness for babies and the elderly. We’ve always known about it, definitely got warnings from our ped when our big kids were babies. There is just more of it this year. Our friends’ kids (preschool and early elementary) had high fevers for TEN DAYS and pneumonia with it. My parents’ friends (70s) were bedbound for two weeks.
Anonymous
Their first exposure, but also the hypothesis that Covid infections in the past have set them up for worse responses to future illnesses.
Anon
Yeah, anecdotally my family got RSV this year and it was a mild ear infection for my preschooler, a mild cold for me and a horrible eight week illness with a terrible cough and fatigue for my husband who had (very mild!) Covid a few months prior and is the only one of us who’s ever had Covid. We all had RSV in early 2020 right before the pandemic and it hit my then 1 year old pretty hard (understandable since it was her first time) but was NBD for both the adults. I really think the reason my husband got so sick this time has something to with his prior Covid infection. I realize this is a sample size of 3 and not a rigorous scientific study. But I’m convinced there’s something to this theory about even mild Covid doing longterm damage to the immune system.
Anon
I am interested in the answer to these questions also.
A few of my colleagues have gotten RSV in the last couple of months and that scares me worse than Covid, at this point. I got Covid in the summer, and tested negative after 5 days and was completely back to normal (no more lingering fatigue or shortness of breath) in just under 2 weeks. One of my colleagues with RSV has been sick for six weeks and has been to urgent care twice and the ER once. Her RSV went from upper respiratory to bronchitis to pneumonia and she’s out on short-term disability. The other folks I know who have gotten it have been sick for a minimum of two weeks and it’s a rough two weeks. And since RSV is a virus, there’s chance some of these people will develop the same kind of post-viral syndrome that people with Covid develop after those infections.
I’m not sure how we avoid going from one illness to another in the future and I am genuinely interested in hearing other people’s thoughts about how we ended up going from the Covid pandemic to what seems like an RSV pandemic with no break in between. And if there’s any chance this won’t continue to happen into the future.
Anon
We (people with competent immune systems) build immunity through repeated exposures. In the past, RSV primarily affected the very young (when they were first exposed). The repeated exposures allow your immune system to fight it off. But due to COVID, there was decreased exposure (masking, stay-at-home, etc). So your immune system ‘forgot’ how to fight it off. With repeated exposure your body will rebuild immunity.
Anon
I don’t think that’s what the science is saying. There’s a lot of concern that the people being hit badly by the flu and RSV this year have had damage to their immune systems from prior COVID infection.
Anon
At the risk of being completely slammed by commenters, I’ll take a stab. I have a cardiac/pulmonary risk factor. During flu season in previous years, I avoided public transportation, washed my hands and avoided people who were obviously ill — someone coughing in the baking aisle, I went down canned soup instead. A coworker walking around talking about how they were “so, so, sick” — I closed my door. I avoided closed indoor spaces — school craft shows, etc. I did attend my childrens’ holiday concerts and plays, but sat in the back by the door.
Now I mask when going into any indoor space, be it Target, the supermarket, a doctor’s office, or the office. I don’t take public transportation. Not a day goes by when I have not received a comment from someone in thoses spaces saying something about how masks don’t work, or “we’re not doing that anymore.”
I have skipped a lot of holiday parties the past 3 years that I probably would have gone to in the past, mostly because I can’t identify who has Covid, but I always felt that the flu, RSV, and even the common cold had very tell tale signs (the glassy eye, the hacking cough, the runny nose).
I’ve had the flu, and although it was the sickest I have ever been, and took weeks to recover from, I did not feel it was actually going to kill me. The blood clotting and long term immune damage from Covid is unbelievably scary to me.
Anon
I am right there with you.
anon
I’m so sorry you have to deal with people saying terrible things on top of having health conditions. I don’t know if it helps, but people aren’t so terrible everywhere.
I still mask indoors (and sometimes outdoors for non-communicable illness reasons) and no one says anything. A friend might ask if I want them to mask while we’re together, but that’s it. For reference, I live in a wealthy, liberal Bay Area city where a minority of people still mask.
Anon
I have a comment in moderation attempting to answer this.
Anon
It’s a good question. The biggest difference is that COVID is absurdly more contagious. So the precautions adequate to avoid flu or RSV just aren’t adequate for COVID and disrupt life a lot more. I have honestly never seen anything like this. I guess it’s more like trying not to catch measles than like trying not to catch RSV or flu, but I never lived with pandemic measles.
The risks of long term harm are also increased. The researchers who give talks at patient conferences talk a lot about the complications they are seeing that are exciting to them as scientists because they’re so new. Flu can really mess people up; I would never downplay post viral syndromes from any virus. But the percentage of people who end up with complications seems higher. And that’s just going on what we already know.
But mostly it’s that it’s so high transmission currently and so easy to catch from even brief interactions.
Sincere Response
Yes, research is showing that COVID is different. I thought about posting a bunch of URLs, but I can’t right now. Some researchers I follow are Bob Wachter MD at UCSF (on twitter) and Dr. Katelyn Jetelina (at your local epidemiologist) and then I read the studies to which they refer.
Some big takeaways for me: the best way to not have to find out how severe your COVID infection will be, or whether you will develop long COVID and which flavor (it ranges from lingering symptoms to new cardio or neurological issues, not to mention exacerbating existing respiratory (eg) conditions) is to not contract COVID.
Good news for those for whom they work is that data show that mRNA vaccines and Paxlovid reduce the incidence of long COVID. Bad news: they don’t work for everyone and they don’t work all the time even for non-medically vulnerable people.
I know this is not a fully referenced comprehensive response, but short answer to your question: yes and thank you for asking. It feels much better than a lot of other ways people have interacted with me.
Anon
“It feels much better than a lot of other ways people have interacted with me.”
It kind of feels like you’re here when you know this space is not going to give you the support you are expecting, in the way you want to receive it. Have you thought about why you might be doing this? Wouldn’t it be a better use of your time, and less triggering for you emotionally, to post your thoughts about Covid in a space of like-minded people who can give you the support you need in the way that you need it? It seems self-sabotaging and masochistic to come back into this space when you know you’re going to be hurt by the responses you get.
Anon
So only the groupthink is acceptable here? I’m not the person you’re replying to, but there’s nothing wrong with asking the commentariat to be considerate that other people are coming from different circumstances.
anon
It seems like what this person is looking for/asking for is groupthink – she wants everyone to say “you’re right, that’s so awful, this must be terrible for you! We all agree to start masking again everywhere and stay home and not eat indoors or see our families! And we won’t rest until the U.S. government puts pandemic restrictions in place again and funds better ventilation systems for all public facilities!” When she doesn’t get that response, she responds with self-pitying statements or terrible accusations of selfishness.
At this point it seems like either masochism or pot-stirring and both are problematic. This person is looking for something the community cannot provide: complete support and cosigning of her ideas. And sympathy and pats on the head regardless of what she says to others. Why she wants this from us, I could not fathom. But she’s not getting it, and yet she keeps coming back. I think that behavior deserves some self-examination.
Anon
No one wants that response. I’m not seeing all these accusations you’re describing either.
If people can come here and say “in my experience, all the high risk people I know are dropping precautions by now,” I don’t see the problem with other coming here and saying, “hey, many high risk people that you apparently don’t know are just now resuming precautions because of how the med landscape has changed recently.” Both things are true. Things are objectively not back to normal. Some people are okay with the recently increased risk, and other people are not.
Anon
Yes.
Winter was always a hazardous time. The immunocompromised often get boosters for pneumonia vaccinations as well as the flu shot of course, keep antibiotics at home and scripts for antivirals, and have their pulmonologists and Immunologists on “speed dial”. That was before COVID. But with older age/lung disease/multiple co-morbidities/immunocompomised state etc…, the risk is not only with getting the flu or COVID, but that once sick with a virus, you are also more likely to deteriorate with a concurrent bacterial pneumonia that evolves. And when you start at a lower baseline, even if you recover, you often don’t get back to where you were and are more likely to be left with long term bad effects. Yes, the flu can be deadly too.
But as everyone on this website likely knows, COVID is not the flu. It is worse, and you are more likely to die in at risk populations, even when vaccinated. COVID does also have complications outside of the respiratory system that are not frequent with the flu. For example, heart attack/strokes…. again, more likely in folks with certain co-morbidities.
That’s why doctors have told certain populations of patients that as of things are now, they need to protect themselves indefinitely. It would be a little different, if society was different.
Anon
This is where I am – very sincerely and without any malice at all! I don’t have anyone in my life who is immunocompromised, but I’ve assumed (and we know what they say about assuming!) that COVID is just now added to the lists of contagious diseases that need to be managed/avoided?
Where I have lost patience is friends who are still freaking out about COVID when what they really need is to see a professional about their anxiety. I have a friend who had a baby during COVID and seems to have PTSD now about diseases. Yes, COVID was and is a serious threat to newborns, but my friend frequently posts hysterical, crying videos to social media shaming the world for not masking and trying to “murder” her healthy now-toddler. We’ve talked to her about her anxiety, and she won’t see a professional (she has the resources). (We’ve approached it every way imaginable, and many of us are on meds ourselves!) Mental health is a legitimate health issue in its own right, as is COVID for vulnerable populations – certain posts (not saying this is one) do a disservice to both.
Anon
You are pretty uncharitable about your “friend.” Why are you friends with someone you have zero compassion for?
Anon
That’s a pretty uncharitable interpretation of her comment.
Anon
My best friend struggled enormously with this. We gave birth along the same time – August 2020. Her daughter did not meet another child until starting daycare in the fall of 2022. They are not high risk, they were just really spooked about Covid. My friend didn’t leave her apartment for weeks at a time during pregnancy, except for doctor’s appointments. They had an enormous amount of anxiety about reentering the world after that degree of isolation, and honestly, the only thing that got them over it was their daughter getting Covid a month after starting daycare, infecting all of them, and having it be a mild case.
Curious
At least for lymphoma patients who were not vaccinated before becoming immunocompromised, COVID was far more deadly than the other illnesses (30%). The death rate has gone down as the proportion vaccinated before chemo has gone up and with new variants.
Curious
*30% death rate.
Anonymous
Yes, I’m high stroke risk (had a brain hemorrhage in my early 20s). COVID’s vascular issues present a real risk to me that is very different than flu, etc. I mask indoors and I am working in a job for much lower salary than I’ve ever had because it is remote. Things have changed considerably in my life.
Anon
Nobody has said that. Nice straw man.
Curious
Mmm, if evusheld isn’t available (not sure on that), then it sounds like the national public health response might be saying that, which kinda sucks.
payal
evusheld is not as effective with the predominant variants
Curious
Got it, makes sense
Anon
I totally hear you. It seems like we transitioned from a phase where other people would be less cautious, but understanding, and would try to make suggestions for safe meet-ups or simply say hi. Now I’m lucky if I hear a sneering “you guys are still avoiding indoor dining, huh?” or “do you REALLY think your husband could get Covid outdoors?” (spoiler – he did. A wilderness trip didn’t have an indoor component). It’s been a revealing year.
Anon
+1
anon
Genuine question: if you’re concerned about catching covid outdoors then what activities are you comfortable with? If you’re suggesting something reasonable to friends and they make fun of you then they’re jerks. But I’m curious what kind of meetups you’re requesting.
Anon
We did the wilderness trip outdoors (guided with other households), which had to be booked over a year in advance. It turned out to hit during peak summer surge. We considered canceling and losing the money, but ultimately decided to go and my husband got Covid. Fortunately, he was OK. We have stuck with our other outdoor activities and meetups since then, usually with just one other household, and have also done a small number of indoor meetups with precautions. My point was that people literally laughed in my face when I said we were concerned about getting Covid on the wilderness trip and then it happened.
Anon
Hear, hear.
anon
This is all true. A family member I am close to died yesterday from Covid complications. She was in her early 60s, had a chronic disease, and was in a nursing home (supposed to be temporary) when she got Covid a few weeks ago. She and her family had been very cautious about Covid because this was likely to be the outcome. That said, I’m not sure what could have been done differently at this point in the pandemic.
Vicky Austin
I’m sorry for your loss.
Anon
I’m so sorry.
The spread of COVID within hospital/rehabs/nursing homes is still a real problem.
My father also just died, not of COVID, but because he couldn’t be transferred to a tertiary care hospital because they were already full… for weeks… with flu/COVID/RSV patients. His care in his small community hospital was very poor. Overworked, burned out doctors. A different nurse every day… all substitute travel nurses because the hospital had lost so many nurses during COVID (death/early retirement/quitting). It has a big impact on patient care, let me tell you. So many mistakes. It is shocking when you realize that the people treating you just…. don’t care anymore.
Don’t get sick folks. With anything. You want to stay away from hospitals.
Anonymous
I’m so sorry you lost your dad.
Anon
I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending you my warmest wishes from an internet stranger.
Anon
Many people are making quality of life decisions that aren’t the 100% safest choices, and that is – OK? To turn around your question, can we acknowledge that even many high risk people who understand the science want to occasionally dine indoors, see friends and relatives indoors using caution, and do other things that enrich their lives? They are not all bumpkins or science deniers – some of them just want to live the most “normal” life possible, even with a degree of known risk.
Anon
This. Most people prefer to choose living versus hiding.
Anon
This is an ugly response. Those of us who are high risk would like to continue living, as in having a heart beat. You do you, but don’t call it “hiding” for those who can’t.
Anon
Some of you. Not my relative who has cancer and occasionally chooses to eat out. A heartbeat but no pleasures in life isn’t working for her.
Anonymous
Yup. Meeting my lung transplant recipient aunt out for dinner in an indoor restaurant tonight. Her lifespan is likely only so long, so she wants to enjoy the time she has!
Anon
well, then maybe someone else deserved her transplant.
OP
Just no, Anon @ 3:28.
Anonymous
Right. Cool if never meeting people indoors is working for you but the part of pandemic where you get to judge or control other people’s choices is over and that seems to be your real gripe.
Anon
Who has decided that quantity of life always trumps quality of life? It’s weird to count heartbeats. If quantity of life was all that mattered, no one would ever leave life support, no one would have a DNR, etc. Obviously many people have decided that staying alive at all costs isn’t what they want. And since covid isn’t a certain death sentence even to most high risk people, it’s perfectly reasonable to make the calculation that enjoying life is a worthwhile goal.
Anon
“the part of pandemic where you get to judge or control other people’s choices is over and that seems to be your real gripe.”
Oh, yeah. It’s this, 100%. One hundred percent. It’s really sad, honestly.
Anonymous
It’s not as simple as quantity of life (precautions) v. quality of life (no precautions). I am high-risk and prone to secondary infections. The quality of my life has vastly improved since I have been able to mask and, until quite recently, avoid high-risk situations such as airplanes. Being sick all the time diminished my quality of life much more than wearing a mask and avoiding indoor dining does.
Anon
Agreed. Weighing my mental health and my physical health, it’s better for me to risk getting Covid but to resume an indoor social and professional life!
For me (a healthy 27 year old), continuing to be cautious and living a locked down life for almost 3 years isn’t realistic or practical.
Anon
This thread isn’t about you.
Anon
I was explaining that many people have to weigh mental health impacts vs physical health impacts. 2020 was a really hard time to live alone and I still don’t think I’ve mentally recovered.
Anonymous
So many still-cautious people act like anyone resuming a normal life is doing it “at” them. This Anon was giving the example that there are other valid reasons why people need to return to normalcy.
Anon
I made the comment above,and I am thinking of a relative undergoing treatment for Stage 4 cancer, who wants to occasionally eat out at restaurants that aren’t super crowded. Not being able to eat out occasionally will add to her misery. That’s her decision and it sounds reasonable to me – even her (healthy but) super cautious husband agrees.
anon
I don’t think anyone’s saying that high risk people are out of touch for personally taking precautions. They’re out of touch if they assume that 1. Everyone else intuits their needs and 2. Everyone else is expected to adhere to their covid precautions all the time. I say this as a long hauler got covid in spring 2020.
Anon
I don’t know a single high-risk person who has ever expected anyone to intuit their needs, much less adhere to their standards. It’s more like “hey, if you’d like to meet for Christmas, could we please do it outside and test first?” And then get an eye roll in response. It’s like every tiny little ask for one day is too burdensome to contemplate and/or perceived as absurd, even when the pandemic has not changed for high-risk people. That’s what OP is getting at.
Anon
I mean yesterday’s question was from someone who wanted people to divine her thoughts so it’s definitely a thing.
Anon
Ah, I wasn’t reading yesterday. I guess that can happen, but it’s far from my own experience.
Anon
People on this board expect both of those things regularly. I remember some really ugly comments over the last few years basically calling anyone who resumes indoor dining selfish and that they don’t care if high risk people die
Anon
Oh God, yeah. The great indoor dining debates of 2020-2021!
Anon
I also recall a lot of ugly comments directed at high-risk people. REALLY ugly comments.
Anon
As one of the high risk people (and there are apparently a lot of us) I was told to shut up and quit whining. Here.
Anon
I suggested to yesterdays OP an outdoor meet up and people responded that given the weather that was a ridiculous idea. So clearly suggesting outdoor gatherings in the winter is not popular.
Vicky Austin
No, the weather this week/weekend is particularly dangerous in many parts of the country and not suitable for outdoor socializing for extended periods. I’d not base your conclusion on this.
Anon
I mean, I’m Covid cautious and I don’t want to be outside in winter, especially not the Arctic blast we’re having currently. It’s not about a lack of compassion for high risk people (I am one!), it’s about not wanting to freeze your a$$ off. Dec-Feb are the coldest months in most of the US. If you don’t want to see people indoors, I think you’re kind of stuck with postponing things to the other 9 months of the year when the weather tends to be milder. Unless you’re in CA or FL or HI and it’s actually nice to be outside now, they had a pretty reasonable response.
Anon
I have Reynaud’s syndrome and get chilblains if I sit outside in the cold too long. Even with gloves on. So no, I am not going to do outside socializing right now.
Anon
I’m happy to mask or test before gathering (though with testing, what is the point?) but I personally draw the line at outdoor gatherings in winter. If it’s going to be 20F and your response is to meet up outside, I will eyeroll at that
Anon
Home tests are pretty bad at detecting early stage COVID. That’s why the masks in addition.
Anon
If testing isn’t helpful, why insist people test?
Anonymous
Gently, I think the “out of touch” meant more that your precautions were out of touch with what most people are doing so you can’t anticipate others will think you’re still avoiding social interaction. It didn’t mean it was “out of touch” with the science or risk factors or reality of the situation.
People should respect the decisions you’ve made regarding your health. Other people have made other decisions with the understanding that they are are taking a risk of contracting this disease or another with possibly grave consequences. You should respect that too.
I get that it was easier in 2020 when doing what was best for you matched the actions most decent people agreed were socially responsible and necessary. But we’re just not there anymore.
Anon
I can respect all of this. Maybe I’m reading into some comments here since I know so many people who think Omicron is no riskier then the flu now, or that we have the tools, or that the vaccines ended the pandemic. I understand just choosing not to follow official recommendations. I wasn’t sure how many people realized that recommendations are different this year than last year (“sorry you are out of luck” instead of “Evusheld and go”).
Anonymous
It’s not being respectful to assume that other people’s choices are based on ignorance or lack of information when you’ve already been assured that they are not. Please read my last paragraph again.
Anon
A fundamental question was asked on this same thread, so it’s clear that not everyone here has the same information.
Anon
“The hospitals are strained and once again need us to “flatten the curve” since too many people are getting sick at once.”
I know our hospitals are full but they have not explicitly made this ask, in our area. What they are asking people to do is not call 911 and not show up at the ER if they have a bad, but stable, upper respiratory infection that has gone on for a couple of weeks. They are imploring people to make appointments at clinics or doctor’s offices or go to urgent care, vs. going to the hospital, unless someone is cyanotic (and there have been multiple news stories about how to tell if someone really is struggling to get enough oxygen) or otherwise in a legitimately serious medical situation. My relative who works at our university hospital ER said they have people who are coming in with nothing more than a bad chest cold, waiting hours to be seen, and then screaming at the ER staff when they are sent home with a recommendation to buy OTC meds and rest (but not given antibiotics, which will not help or do anything because the infection is viral. And they won’t give people prescriptions for cough medicine because of the propensity for abuse). She said in her experience maybe 4 or 5 of 10 patients they’re seeing in the ER really need ER-level treatment; others are using it as primary or urgent care because they’re on Medicaid and they know they won’t receive gigantic bills for going to the ER vs. seeking lower-level care.
I think one thing we could do is educate the general public a little more about what constitutes a “life-threatening emergency” vs. being sick and miserable, but not so sick that you should go to the ER and take up space needed by someone who has a really serious medical problem.
Anon
I’m in California and we are on the verge of mandatory masking again. Hospitals are asking for this, in fact.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article269766107.html
It’s really a shame that this has become politicized and that the government has to be so careful about messaging so as not to offend anyone.
Anonymous
375 people a day on average die of Covid in the US, a country of 330 million people . There are other potentially fatal communicable diseases that can get you too. I choose to ignore it and live life.
Anon
375 people dying a day is actually a lot. That’s 136,000 a year, assuming there aren’t huge seasonal shifts in those numbers, which is WAY more than flu. In most years it’s about 10,000-50,000 dying from flu, so even with vaccines and antivirals Covid is somewhere between 3 and 13 times as deadly as influenza, which is already a significant risk to the most vulnerable members of society. I’m not sure why you think this is no big deal.
Anonymous
You are out of touch.
Kat G
FYI – lots of nice styling ideas in this video at J.Crew, especially for more of their out-there designs. https://www.jcrew.com/r/feature/womens/design-try-ons-the-holiday-collection?intcmp=newHP_columntouts_7_women_design&om_i=newHP_p6
Anon
I’m pretty sure yesterday’s post about all the short, bald dudes was a troll, but I just wanted to put a plug in for short guys. If you’ve ruled out guys under 5’9 on principal, maybe 2023 is the year to loosen that a little. My 5’6 husband is handsome, smart, confident, funny, and every other good thing imaginable. Everyone is allowed to have whatevever dealbreakers they want, but would you really rather not have a partner than have a partner who uses a step stool to reach the top cabinets?
OP
Ugh – principle.
Anonymous
I am dating a short guy. He’s pretty sensitive about it, and I hate that because that little lack of confidence is the least attractive thing about him. But he is kind and generous and funny and easy-going and last night gave me the best s3x of my life, so I am hanging in with him.
pugsnbourbon
Oh damn girl good for you. I bet you’re glowing today.
pugsnbourbon
I realize this might have sounded sarcastic but I’m 100% genuine, I am happy for you!
Anon
I’m also happy for you!!
Anon
I joke that my only height requirement is for a man to be taller than me, but I’m 5’3 so I’ve yet to meet one I am taller than (but if I did, it’d not an actual deal breaker). I think both of my exes are 5’6 and 5’7.
My condo has 10 ft ceilings and most of my storage is vertical so a tall partner would be ideal just so I don’t have to break out my step ladder lol
Anon
Cosign all of this from someone with an awesome, hot husband who is 5’8 (and I’m 5’10” so I’m taller than him, but neither of us cares at all). My husband has a full head of hair but if I were to be dating again, I can’t imagine balding being a dealbreaker either, especially now that I’m almost 40 and more guys my age are balding than not. It seems so shallow to rule out guys based on height or how much hair they have.
Anon
Zelensky settles the case reg short guys.
pugsnbourbon
I was too chicken to say it on yesterday’s post but you know what? I have a thing for Andrew Zimmern. Short, bald AND chubby. But he seems so funny and nice, extensively traveled (obvs) and a great cook. I’d hop on that train.
Anonymous
I totally get this. It’s a personality thing and I find his to be pretty attractive.
Anonie
YES! My 5’7 husband is the best!
Anon
I’ve said this before, but one of my high school friends is married to a guy who is maybe 5’6″, 5’7″ tops and that guy is dead sexy and just an all-around great guy. Funny, smart, helpful, compassionate, successful professionally, a good dad…what else could you ask for? She made a great choice.
anon
I went through a tall guy phase (6’1” and up). They and their belongings take up so much space! There’s less room on the couch, their clothing uses up vertical closet space that I need for dresses, and it just feels like there’s an elephant in my smallish apartment. My friend temporarily lived with her tall SO in a small 1BR and it drove her crazy. At this point I’d prefer a petite man.
Anon
As someone with a 5’8″ husband I can assure you shorter guys can take up plenty of space too, LOL. I don’t think this is a height thing. I think it’s a guy thing.
Anon
My husband isn’t short (5’11”) but I’m also not short (5’11”.). It’s ok to date someone the same height as you!! Or shorter!
Anon
lol, my husband and I are both 5’10” – I consider him short! He’s very confident though and loves when I wear heels.
Anon
5’9″ is average height for an American male, so a 5’10” guy is not what I’d call short. He’s not tall either – just a bit above average.
Anonymous
I don’t get why everyone latched onto the short bald part of her description and ignored the rest of it, apparently they really struck a chord. She didn’t say all short or bald dudes are low quality. There was a laundry list of bad qualities. I thought by the time I was old enough that most of my male peers are balding, they would be at least somewhat mature? Not cracking gross jokes? Know how to dress? And boil water? But no, a lot of these guys are just grown up children who bemoan their singlehood but have absolutely nothing to offer a woman.
Anon
Right, it was a laundry list of bad qualities and it’s gross and offensive to lump short and balding in with actual bad qualities like rudeness and bad hygiene.
OP
I didn’t ignore her larger complaint. My point is just that if you’re lumping short (or balding) guys in with all those man children, you are missing out.
Anonymous
If my 5’8” husband ever keels over, I can handle him.
anon
Not looking to trade my husband (he’s great!) but I’m 5’4″ and he’s 6’2″ and if he were much shorter it would be wonderful. I have an ex who was 5’7″ and that was lovely. But my husband can reach things that are on high shelves, so there are benefits.
Anonymous
And you know what? I’m 5’11” so next time me, many pretty average sized guys are short.
I assume my dating a guy that is 5’10” or 5’11” is like a 5’5” woman dating a 5’6” man. It’s fine!
Anne-on
Oooh, that feather bag is a great dupe for the Hermes feathered picotin, how fun!
Anne-on
And if anyone is hosting a casual (but fabulous) new years eve party I think this is your outfit: https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/clothing/pajamas-and-intimates/pajama-sets/petite-plume-womens-silk-tunic-set-with-feathers/N4973?display=standard&fit=Classic&color_name=black&colorProductCode=N4973
Anon
Looking for suggestions on something to send a friend who was in a very serious accident. She’s now home after over a month in the hospital. Could do flowers, baked my Melissa, other things.
Ideally would like to keep the gift + delivery fees under $50 if possible.
AIMS
I think food is great. If there is a Whole Foods in their area, I have order a bunch of soups and bread to people who are sick. They freeze well so don’t have to be eaten right away and you should be able to come in around $50 or under.
Vicky Austin
I was going to suggest soup! Maybe it’s just the weather making me want soup…
Anonymous
My default is any kind of crisis is a Seamless/Grubhub e-gift card so they can get food delivered. Or grocery delivery (Fresh Direct in NYC).
Anon8
Same here! I get it for all the new parents I know and its always appreciated
Anon
This! Gift cards so they can splurge on seamless instead of cooking or leaving their home.
Anon
I like the Penzey’s hug box: https://www.penzeys.com/online-catalog/penzeys-hug-gift-box/c-24/p-4352/pd-gb
H13
Any recs for places to eat or things to do in South Bend, Indiana next week? Any great hole-in-wall food places to check out?
Anon
*Waves hi from one of the other Indiana college towns*
I’ve been to South Bend a few times, but it looks like all the restaurants I loved have closed. #collegetownproblems Yelp is usually a good resource for restaurants, especially hole in the wall places.
anon
Walk around the lakes at Notre Dame. If you like burgers, maybe go to CJs.
Greensleeves
We had a delicious breakfast there last month at Fatbird! The chicken and waffles was amazing. I also heard good things about Peggs from others who were there for the same event, but we didn’t eat there ourselves.
ND anon
Hello from a Domer! Agree with a walk around the lakes if it’s not too cold. Campus is beautiful this time of year. The Morris Inn has a restaurant/bar Rohr’s which is convenient if you’re on campus. Eddy Street Commons is also right there but mostly chain type restaurants
Off campus, Rocco’s is popular for pizza and I’ll always have a soft spot for a cozy Guinness and dinner at Fiddler’s Hearth
Anonymous
Check out Roselily in South Bend or Artisan in Elkhart for top tier fine dining!
The Bucket is fun for something more casual.
Shelle
Just a post giving thanks and an update. I posted a long question on this board a few years ago to get tips for navigating my in-laws’ gifting tradition, coming from a family where we don’t give gifts. You all were so helpful in giving concrete suggestions and helping me to better understand how they view this tradition and the happiness it brings them. In an amazing twist of fate, I never had to put all that good advice to use. They tried a year without gifts and they’re never going back. It’s a Christmas miracle! ;) Happy Holidays everyone.
Senior Attorney
Wow, that IS a Christmas miracle! Huzzah!
Anonymous
Does anyone use a makeup remover that is non-greasy and non-drying, preferably a cream? My favorite one (Neutrogena’s cream makeup remover) is apparently no more, and I’m hating all the greasy things I’ve tried like Cliniques Take the Day off and Cetaphil. (I’m just using them with cotton balls at the moment.)
Anon
I think creams are just greasy. I love Bioderma’s micellar water for makeup removal.
anon
I switched to Bioderma Sensibio and my skin quality actually improved. Before the switch, I used Shiseido Oil Cleanser and Cerave Foaming Wash.
Anne-on
Banila clean it zero is a great balm, and the Asian cleansing oils are great – you put both types on clean/dry skin, rub it in gently and then rinse with warm water. They emulsify (turn white) and wash away easily. I prefer the oils which come in a pump for ease of use – the Kose speedy oil and Purito/Innisfree cleansing oils are all great and available on amazon.
Anon
I’m a balm fan, but I rinse it off with a warm damp washcloth. Every stitch of makeup gone and a mild exfoliation from the cloth. I love it.
I like Glow Recipe Papaya balm cleanser the best. It has a sorbet texture.
Vicky Austin
Pond’s, maybe? It’s been years since I used it though.
anon
Ponds is pretty greasy. It’s great for removing heavy makeup but I wash my face after using it.
Vicky Austin
Never mind then!
Anon
Have you tried the hot pink Makeup Eraser cloth? I use that and follow with my usual facewash and there’s nothing left.
Anon
The oiliness is what sticks to the makeup and takes it off! You should be double cleansing, so washing your face after will get rid of the greasiness.
BeenThatGuy
This. I oil cleanse with Mac Cleanse Off Oil and then wash with Cetaphil. The makeup literally melts off without stripping any moisture away.
Anonymous
OP here – I hate washing my face at night. That was what I loved about the cream remover! (I haven’t found a cream remover, everything I mentioned trying is a stupid greasy oil.)
anon
Not sure it works on your face but the Bliss gel eye makeup remover is great.
Anon
It’s an oil, so pretty much greasy by definition, but I am obsessed with Tatcha Camellia Oil. I don’t find that the greasiness stays on my face and it gets makeup off better than any product I’ve ever tried! I just rinse afterwards very thoroughly with warm water and my skin feels very soft and smooth.
Anon
I have a sample of this and it’s lovely. A splurge though!!
Anon
It’s pricey, I agree. The full size bottle does last me a long time (like 6+ months) though, so I justify it! :)
Anonymous
I really love the Pixi Double Cleanser from Target with a clean warm washcloth. There’s an oil based makeup remover and then a creamier cleanser and it really gets the makeup off and feels great on my skin.
Anon
If your makeup is light enough and not waterproof, you may only need a microfiber cloth and water.
ALT
I’ve been using the Naturium cleansing balm and really like it!! It doesn’t irritate my eyes like so many of the cleansing balms and oils do, plus you only need a tiny bit so the jar lasts a long time.
I do double-cleanse though!
I saw something on TikTok where you use normal liquid cleanser on a dry face and gently rub it in, then rinse with water…maybe try that?