Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Mock-Neck Blouse
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
The bow print on this mock-neck blouse from & Other Stories is the exact level of whimsy I’m looking for these days. Not too twee, but still a little bit fun.
This would be great to wear on its own or layered under a sweater or even a black sheath to add a little print and texture.
The top is $99 and comes in sizes XS-XL. It also comes in leopard and solid black.
Sales of note for 1/16/25:
- M.M.LaFleur – Tag sale for a limited time — jardigans and dresses $200, pants $150, tops $95, T-shirts $50
- Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
- AllSaints – Clearance event, now up to 70% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles with code — readers love this blazer, these dresses, and their double-layer line of tees
- DeMellier – Final reductions now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; extra 50% off all clearance, plus ELOQUII X kate spade new york collab just dropped
- Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off; new markdowns just added
- J.Crew – Up to 40% off select styles; up to 50% off cashmere
- J.Crew Factory – 40-70% off everything
- L.K. Bennett – Archive sale, almost everything 70% off
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Sephora – 50% off top skincare through 1/17
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Summersalt – BOGO sweaters, including this reader-favorite sweater blazer; 50% off winter sale; extra 15% off clearance
- Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – 50% off + extra 20% off, sale on sale, plus free shipping on $150+
I’m ready to transition to a new role and there’s two opportunities that I’m interviewing for. Would love to get y’alls opinions on which position is better; there’s opportunity in both. About me: married with a fully remote WFH spouse and 2 kids in elementary school. We just moved here in 2024 and plan to stay “forever”. I currently commute twice a week to the manufacturing hub where I work.
Similarities: both positions are a lateral move into management and will have roughly the same salary (2-3% above what I make now). They have similar pay scales, and both are amenable to folks looking to fill the role for a short(er) period of time: 1-2 years. I see both as stepping stones to my future at this company. I work a 4×10 schedule at my current job, and both of these jobs will continue being 4×10.
Position A: I interviewed for Position A+1, but the position was filled by the person who had Position A and was acting in A+1. No hard feelings, and I was strongly encouraged to apply to A. Position A is full time on-site at the manufacturing hub where I currently work. Commute is 20 mins in the AM and 40 in the PM. I’d have about 12-15 direct reports, and I have done a similar job in the past at other companies. I know the A+1 Manager well and like him, know less about A+2, but like A+3. The position is site-based (roles and responsibilities are only at this site, but across all programs). Interface would be with the manufacturing team, including some senior leaders, but seems very tactical.
Position B: The B+2 manager (director) called me to gauge interest; I have had limited interaction with her, but she used to have A+3’s job. I think the B+1 manager is good, but I just had one call with her this week, so it’s hard to gauge. Position B is fully remote (but the person must reside near any of our sector hub locations), except while traveling. Travel is for 3 business days per month, approximately – typically planned in advance, and that could just be to the local hub when corporate folks are in town. I’d only have 3 direct reports (plus one to hire), and I have never done this specific type of work, although it’s still in my realm of very general knowledge. The position is at a sector (one under corporate) level, and the travel would be to support corporate initiatives, including a new scope that’s not stood up yet. Interface is high-level and seems more strategic.
The way I am seeing it, I have Job A, which would get me visibility locally, and would have the large team that I crave. I’ve been thinking about Job A for a few months as I applied for A+1. Job B was out of left field, but I love the idea of fully virtual and no commute time, am neutral/lightly negative to the travel aspect, but wary of the small team. I also like that the opportunity involves higher-level initiatives. Part of me says, if I take Job B, there’s always going to be other opportunities like Job A at my local hub in the future – we’re staying here forever. The other part of me says, it doesn’t make sense to invest at the corporate level if we aren’t going to move around to other hubs. What would you do?
Perhaps I am misreading but it seems like you are jumping ahead a bit. Do you have an offer from either of them? If not, continue the interview process for both and see where things go.
Understood – I was told for Position A that if I apply, I am going to get it, and I rocked the interview. For Position B, my talks with the management team lead me to believe very similarly. I would likely hear next week about both positions, and for what it’s worth, both positions know I am in the running for both.
I have not gotten jobs I was told I was going to get. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch
I agree with this in general, but I also think it is fine for OP to think through both options and decide which one she prefers.
Congrats! Nice to have good options. It sounds like you understand A very well. A couple questions I’d have in your shoes (you may already know the answers and left out for brevity): On B, is this a newly created role or one that has existed for some time? Why is the role open? Does a similar role exist in other companies? Based off what you write, I could see B either as a rocket ship role (specifically that it’s broader in scope and more strategic) or a poorly understood/utilized team within the existing org without a logical career path and potential to be seen as a cost center. If the person who formerly held B is still in the org, I’d ask to speak with them after getting an offer. I’d also ask to speak with some of your direct reports at B after the offer, if you don’t interview with them. I’d be listening to understand how busy they are, who the work is largely for (one champion in the org vs. well utilized across multiple relevant superiors), if their work comes to fruition or just is lots of reports with no action.
I vote Job B. Being able to work remotely is huge. Your kids are at the age where they will start to have more activities and sports and life will get busier. I prefer managing a smaller team – less of your time will be spent doing HR/admin work.
I also vote B, but you and I are very different given that you “crave” a large team. I have had large teams and my dream job is strategic-level individual contributor, or max team of 3. Managing a large team and then going home to managing elementary age kids is incredibly draining for me.
Same. I wfh full time and manage 3 people currently (soon to be 4) and dealing with me! me! me! all day from 3 people and added a preschooler on that is draining! I can’t imagine managing a much larger team
To your point, I’d ask the OP further questions: What does this large team mean versus the small team? A large team of worker bees can have less visibility than a small team of more experienced members that interact with leadership on strategy. Why do you want to be a manager in the first place? If you love growing people and managing routine fires, the large team makes sense if you’d be happy doing that work long term and getting even more reports. If you are people-driven and view management as a means to grow your career, then the corporate team may make more sense.
**Should say, if you’re not that people-driven…
I would also do B, but I am less ambitious than many here, and would be happy to have a fully remote job. Especially with elementary school aged kids.
I don’t understand the +1 +2 +3, what does that mean?
I think Position A+1 means Position A’s boss (i.e. one level higher than Position A), Position A+2 means Position A’s boss’ boss, etc.
I also don’t get the +1 descriptor, but I think you need to factor in your overall career mobility. Is this company the only game in town? Manufacturing and managing onsite at a plant isn’t the most current skill set, especially in middle management, which is what it sounds like you’re considering? At the same time, a remote job is a terrible way to advance too, completely out of sight out of mind. I’d talk to people at your company if this is the only game around and see which position is the kind that more senior leaders have had.
Why are you only considering lateral moves? Is there a reason you’re not looking to advance?
The other thing to think about position A is that 4 10’s plus an hour commute is 4 11’s. Do you want to do that every day for the foreseeable future with elementary school kids? 2 days a week you obviously don’t do that now so what will you lose in that hour those days? Have you discussed that with your spouse?
What about the team size matters to you? It doesn’t sound like the role itself will change, just the amount of employees you supervise? Are you going to be promoted forever just based on direct reports? B sounds like you’d learn new things and have new opportunities. I would do that because I value that in my career. But if you want to focus in your current area and aren’t giving up a lot in the longer work day, then you might want to take A.
I would want B. It sounds like a better opportunity to learn new things, with the travel you can be visible to people who can help promote you and you generally meet more people, and therefore have more people who (in theory) will see your great work across the enterprise. I went from corporate level working with sector leadership to sector/BU leadership and having that visibility and contacts across the enterprise has really helped me advance. People come to me for all sorts of things now bc if I don’t know the answer, I know someone who does. If I had started at sector/BU and stayed there for a lateral move, I would never have the breadth of contacts I have now. Yea good work is fairly important, but who you know is more important in getting promoted (IME at two large international corporations across 15 years).
Good luck!
I am just not Team Pants in the winter. Has anyone seen current dress offerings that have long sleeves and a shift or A line skirt that aren’t ruffle-puffs? I’d prefer a print with black in it but open to solids. My mall must cater to teens and tradwives because I’m not see anything IRL remotely on the business s side of business casual. Can anyone help with links?
Maybe Boden?
The Maria Knitted Midi seems like it would work; here’s the link to a navy chevron pattern: https://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/maria-knitted-midi-dress-navy-camel-stripe/sty-d1072-nsp
Wouldn’t that cling to tights? I wish more things were lined because I feel like my nana in a slip and the slip to skirt ratio is never right.
I will never understand why people here think slips are “old-fashioned.” It’s underwear! Are underpants old-fashioned? Are bras? Your grandma probably actually had lined skirts, why aren’t those “old- fashioned?”
Face it, we are not going back to the days of beautifully lined skirts and pants. A half slip is an easy fix. A half slip to about the knee will work just fine with a longer skirt. Go to Amazon, Kohls, Target, Penney’s, and you’ll find a ton of slips. Hit the easy button and just buy a dang slip!!
Agree with everything PolyD just said. I will never get over someone here referring to slips as “frumpy”. Re-watch Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and go buy yourself a couple (I have an above-the-knee, a below-the knee, and two full slips in white and black). They are cheap, they are easy, and have the added benefit of making a lot of shape wear unnecessary because they smooth out the lumps and bumps caused by your underpinnings.
Their lighter-weight jersey dresses will cling to tights, but this looks like a thicker winter-weight material. I have something similar, although I can’t find it on the website anymore, and it hangs and drapes nicely without clinging.
Agreed! I didn’t know people didn’t wear slips, I can’t imagine not.
New question: where are the pretty knee-length slips and chemises (is that the right term for a full-slip?)?
Literally every place that sells underwear.
And the slip and the skirt don’t have to be exactly the same length. I have a great little half slip that’s about 2″ shorter than my skirts, so it never shows, but definitely eliminates any sort of tights cling. JC Penney is great for slips if there’s one near you, otherwise there are tons on Amazon. Or look for tights with a slicker and less “brushed” texture – that helps too.
Mine are Vanity Fair. They are widely available and you can get them without lace, which I prefer to avoid any lumps under my clothes.
This time of year with this cold weather is when I got for the upscale sweater dress. I picked up a few from banana republic pre covid and I am still cycling through them. The other good places are UK based. You can order online. I always found non ruffle stuff at Next and autograph or jaeger at M&S. Their size charts are accurate and returns are not too bad. The prices are excellent, especially with the exchange rate.
For higher end Hobbs and LK Bennett have exactly what you are looking for but it’s about $200+.
British brands do seem to do dresses with sleeves much better than US brands. In addition to those mentioned, I keep getting catalogs from Me + Em and they look like they have some that might work. Have never ordered from them, so can’t speak to quality.
I just purchased a few wool dresses on the Etsy shop LinenSea. I can post back if they work for me.
My go tos for this are usually DKNY and Ralph Lauren.
Have you checked out Sezane? They have a few dresses that might fit the bill — this one looks especially promising: https://www.sezane.com/us/product/mathie-dress/black#size-XS
That’s kind of a mini-dress… but perhaps on someone short, with tights and high boots you could get away with it.
Has anyone used an Ecobee smart thermostat with remote sensors? How do you like it?
I live in a 2 story suburban house, thermostat is on the 1st floor which is open concept and bedrooms and furnace are upstairs. Currently the upstairs is comfortable temperature wise however the furnace turns on often because it is detecting that downstairs is colder. However, we are comfortable downstairs with a sweater. Our insulation is fine, windows are newer.
I want to put the remote sensor upstairs and have that be the only sensor that the thermostat listens to instead of using the average of both. Is this a good use case?
We have the Nest but two furnaces, so we can set each level. Code in our city requires a furnace or heat pump for each floor. Do you have just one furnace?
just one furnace, yes
This is so weird I have never heard of such a thing. Do you live in a suburban McMansion? Two furnaces for an urban 1200 sq foot home would be so overkill.
No — older 2-story 3BR home in big city. We did get 2 heat pumps when we redid the HVAC but back in the day the house had one furnace and a coal chute and a sleeping porch because I’m guessing it was hard to cool the upstairs with just relying on fans and cross-breezes.
Heat pumps are an aesthetic crime on century homes
How so? I must not be understanding this. I thought a heat pump was often out in an attic or crawl space. Giant AC units are a whole other thing if you like quiet outdoor living.
Maybe the poster means heat pumps via mini splits, which I have one of in my home and absolutely hate the aesthetic. We also have a heat pump through our central air system.
Yes via mini splits, sorry!
I’ve lived in small houses that have had zoned heating.
One furnace per floor is completely wild! That makes sense for heat pump heads, but not for furnaces- I’ve never had more than 1 in any house I’ve lived in.
I tried the Ecobee (no remote sensors) and ended up replacing it with our old dumb-but-programable thermostat. It refused to stay connected to WIFI, and customer service was horribly inept at troubleshooting. In spite of the promise that it would work without WIFI as long as you are physically at the interface, we couldn’t get it to respond and it kept shutting our A/C off during the worst of the heat wave last summer. When our indoor temp climbed into the 90s, I gave up and put the old thermostat back. We couldn’t risk a smart thermostat doing this during cold spells in the winter when pipes would freeze without heat while we were away. FWIW, we did not find any appreciable increase in comfort nor in energy savings compared to properly programming our dumb thermostat.
I appreciate the feedback!
I have the Ecobee in a second home that is about 30 mins from our primary. I use the app to monitor temps in the winter to make sure pipes don’t freeze. I have never had the internet connectivity issue described above, and found customer service to be helpful. Obviously, it’s critical for our thermostat to stay connected and the only time it has disconnected is when the internet is down. I haven’t tried other smart thermostats so I cannot compare to others, but we have used the Ecobee for 6 plus years with good results.
I appreciate the feedback! Can you control the temp from the thermostat when wifi is down?
Yes. No Wi-Fi it is just a regular thermostat
I’m the one above who had trouble. While I could control the temp from the thermostat when wifi went down, it was only a temporary hold (like, for 2 hours). Then it would revert back to whatever it decided was on schedule (in our situation, it was just “off”). That schedule couldn’t be changed until the thermostat was reconnected to wifi. In our case, the off-wifi schedule did not seem to align at all with our actual schedule. I could log in online to see and adjust our real schedule, but it couldn’t talk to the thermostat without wifi, to which it stubbornly refused to connect.
I’ve had an ecobee for years and never had that problem with my wifi. I just switched Wi-Fi providers and left mine disconnected for months. I just had to change the temp at the thermostat and scroll down to until I change it every time that menu pops up. Maybe you had a defective one? I do know some versions have been rated higher than others. I have version 2 I think.
Longer response got eaten…
Can’t you just turn the thermostat down? We have a tri level and similar scenario, and keep our 1st-floor thermostat at 62 in the winter in order to avoid broiling in the upstairs bedrooms (they are usually around 74).
the current temp (64) is the lowest we feel comfortable at on the first floor
If you don’t feel comfortable with it any lower, then it sounds like the heat needs to be running as often as it does right now?
Do you need to install zoned heating? Most of the two story houses I’ve lived in have had some kind of zoning.
In that case, have you tried closing registers upstairs to see how comfortable you can get the downstairs without baking the upper floors?
If the ambient convection activity means all the heat just rises to upper floors anyhow, remote sensors aren’t really going to help. You might need physical barriers to keep the downstairs heat downstairs. Closed doors on staircase openings, etc.
Try it! I have something that pairs with Apple home. Works just fine for me to set my three level house using just the upstairs. I do need to remember that the mid level of the house is cold to guests and adjust when I have folks over.
Have you tried adjusting the damper that controls how much heat goes upstairs v. how much goes downstairs? We direct more heat downstairs in the winter and more A/C upstairs in the summer.
can you just move your dumb thermostat upstairs?
Thats a great question for my hvac guy- made a note to ask
I have an older ecobee system and have 5 or 6 remotes. Certain areas of my house do not cool/heat very well. My system works well. I think what you are proposing could work, but depends on where people are. The sensors sense both temp and occupancy. If no one is upstairs it will ignore that sensor. The actual thermostat is also a sensor, so it is going to factor that in. On my system you can not prioritize sensors, but that may be a feature on newer versions.
You probably need 2 zones not two furnaces. If you already have two zones it sounds like the damper or ducting are not set up right.
We fixed our zones recently and it made such a difference to quality of life.
Newborn visits are wild. There is a kind of relative, maybe a mother or sister, who visits in true servant mode, often for an extended period, with little need to be fussed over. You know if you have this way in advance because she often did lesser tasks like this before — when you got your wisdom teeth out, when you moved, etc. She took care of you.
Otherwise, visits are often told to be a nuisance and burden to new parents and people who are well-meaning may visit briefly even if that requires travel.
When my sister had a baby, my mom visited to tend to her but her MIL did not and neither did any SIL. I was single, no kids, and in BigLaw so I would have been of no help at all and visited before the baby came and then maybe 6 months later once they settled into a routine (would have been a 2-plane trip visit, not across town).
For a first kid, the dynamics are hard to predict. For second kids, often you are there to help the first kid and the mom and do a lot of laundry and running to the store. At least in my family and that of many friends.
Smaller house, but this is pretty much what we use the Ecobee with remote sensors for. We have it set to keep the living room the temp we want during the day and a bedroom (or maybe both? spouse set it up) at night.
It also detects motion, which is great if I’m out for a long walk early and want to see if my family is up for the day.
oh, I have an old one, but am upgrading due to HVAC upgrades. There’s a current model that does not have a microphone for alexa/siri, but you have to check carefully if you care about this because most of the current models do have a much.
I’m not familiar with that brand but we have a nest thermostat. Old house, two stories, single furnace in the basement, and have a similar problem with the downstairs being colder than the upstairs.
The nest can apparently “learn” your habits to save energy, but what we’ve done is programmed it for a comfortable temp downstairs during the times of day when we’re likely to be downstairs. When we’re upstairs, it’s set much lower.
The heat coming on in the morning has ended up being my alarm clock. Husband and I go downstairs to make tea and a light breakfast around the same time every morning, and so the nest is programmed to turn the heat on to warm up the downstairs about 5 to 10 minutes before we get down there
I do end up manually adjusting the temp on my phone if I’m uncomfortable in one place or the other, but it’s a lot easier than just having a dumb thermostat on the wall anyway.
I have a dedicated home office and it tends to get cold in there because the airflow is not great from the furnace in that room, especially when I have the door closed. So I have one of those oscillating space heaters in that room, just to keep it warm enough for me to work.
It’s not unusual for both of us to be wearing light puffer vests around the house, especially downstairs. As my grandmother would’ve said “put on a sweater.”
From what I remember from the remote sensors, they don’t cancel out the sensor on the unit. It just detects colder or warmer spots and compensates between them.
We have an ecobee upstairs and it works fine. We have not had any connection issues. We do have strong wifi, in case that matters. It is near a window, but not facing the window so it doesn’t get sun. I feel like downstairs is a little cold (obviously since heat rises) but we sometimes turn it up from our phone while we are downstairs. I also have a heated blanket I use downstairs because I run colder than the rest of my family and they will complain its too hot lol.
I’m relearning business travel after an extended hiatus from COVID and babies. When you travel and need two brushes, toiletries that aren’t makeup, makeup, and some meds, what is your packing plan for all that and how many bags are you using? I swear when I was single I had a tiny bag or didn’t need to think so much and now it seems that I can’t get by with less than the giant mom hauler I use in family vacations even though the toiletries are in the tiny sizes (how many business hotels stock shampoo but not conditioner?!).
I travel a lot for work. I’ve never had a hotel that has shampoo but not conditioner. Gyms on the other hand often seem to have shampoo only
I use contact lens cases for things like moisturizer and face wash so I don’t have to take lots of small bottles.
+1 to contacts cases and small bottles for shampoo, conditioner, etc. I still have issues with having a lot of meds that need to be in original bottles (eye drops, nasal spray, contact lens solution), and a big pill case so it all adds up, but I’m a pretty light packer otherwise and can generally cram everything into a carry on as long as I’m not trying to pack for too many different types of activities (like formal and causal and hiking) or a range of weather.
I also use a contact lens case for moisturizer and small lotions. For conditioner, try Everist (a concentrate). It travels well and is compact. Other ideas are to streamline your makeup routine for travel. I use an eyebrow pencil rather than my usual brush/gel, and a solid eyeshadow crayon in a neutral colour when traveling.
Two – one larger one that holds brushes and general bathroom toiletries (baggies serve as sub-dividers), and my makeup bag.
I’m not following, how many makeup bags or overall bags? I use two small bags for toiletries and makeup, one with travel sizes for liquids that’s roughly tsa sized from when that mattered and a small bag for makeup. My routine is simple and I rely on lipstick and lashes to make the look so that bag is small too. Both fit in the shoe side of a carryon.
I travel a lot for work and the game changer for me was a designated set of travel things. I have one bag with a travel size of every product I use at home that never leaves my suitcase. I have a smaller pouch with the same thing for makeup (admittedly a pretty small amount) and hair. For pills/vitamins, I use one of those weekly pill cases so I can just toss it into my bag like my wallet and keys when I leave. It seemed like a lot to buy/organize up front, but now makes packing a no-brainer.
+1 to this – I still remember realizing that I should unpack/use my ‘travel’ toiletries during covid as they were unlikely to be needed for months otherwise.
I have doubles of my brush/comb, and then use smaller containers (cadence or specific brand minis) for the following: oil cleanser (banila co makes minis that I use), face wash, sunblock, moisturizer, treatment step(retinol or acid), conditioner/hair mask. I also pack bar soap (dove) but use hotel shampoo/body lotion – I’ve found I can use ‘eh’ shampoo for a few days as long as I have my good conditioner/mask. I’ll also travel domestically with my dyson, hotel hair dryrs are trash. I don’t wear a ton of makeup and usually just take a tinted moisturizer, brown pencil, eyeshadow crayon (laura mercier caviar stick), blush, and lip balm. My work bag also has emergency meds – my prescriptions, nausea/upset tummy meds, dayquil, advil, and bandaids.
This is the way. I have makeup & toiletry bags that stay in my travel bag. For hair I have a dual voltage hair dryer brush thingy that’s small and stays in my travel bag. Similarly, a pouch of electronic related things like charger cords, power bank, dongles, thumb drives, etc. that stays as well. Started it because it was too stressful going back and forth and forgetting things. Also, in my old age I am not as low maintenance as I once was, lol
Tip from me. The last morning in the hotel, I use the paper and pen they usually provide to make notes to myself about what’s running low in my travel sizes. I stick that into my toiletries bag when I pack. My bag is clear so I can see the note when I’m packing for my next trip so I can remember to replace or refill what’s empty (or missing! – it has happened respecte my system.)
I have in suitcase:
-makeup bag, with small case inside for jewelry,
-bag with face wash, deodorant, hair products and my preferred shampoo.
-Bag with dental care items: retainer, floss etc
In my “personal item” I have yet another pouch with hand sanitizer, lip stuff, Tylenol, tampons etc.
Not exactly what you’re asking but if you do not already have tsa precheck or global entry, it’s worth the effort to get it. Mainly to avoid having to actually remove toiletry bags out of a carry on at the airport.
I am dedicated to carry on only and so prioritize my packing space as needed in order to fit what I can’t live without. If that means I need to schlep my own hair dryer and diffuser, I figure out what I can sacrifice in order to make it all fit. One less pair of shoes, a comb instead of a brush, whatever I need to do.
I don’t think I’ve ever stayed in a hotel that didn’t have conditioner, but I would ask for some if they don’t have any in the bathroom when you get there. I often ask for extra hangers anyway so it’s a chill cheap birds with one stone, kind of thing. I often ask for extra lotion too.
As a former road warrior prior to the lockdowns, I had duplicates of everything in my suitcase, including all of my cosmetics. So I still have a second hairbrush in there, a travel sized straight iron, a tiny travel umbrella, dedicated toothbrush, etc.
But since I had to throw away all of my expired cosmetics, probably two years after the lockdown started, I decided not to keep duplicates of those in there anymore with my greatly reduced travel schedule these days.
I tend not to take any shower products with me and just rely on the hotel stuff. I also tried to concentrate my travel to the same chain of hotels, and I know their toiletries for the most part. I used to be a Hyatt elite now I am Marriott. But the Marriott toiletries are fine for me. (Hyatt were better)
I do take a mini bottle of hair serum with me because strange shampoo and strange weather can make my hair behave in unexpected ways. But other than that, it’s just skincare and cosmetics in my bag. I get it all into a fairly small case that’s about 8 x 4 x 3 inches.
I try not to use makeup that needs tons of brushes while traveling–that’s the time to use multisticks, powder foundations, easy one and done eyeshadows, etc. I too have never encountered a hotel that stocks shampoo but not conditioner. If you do run into that issue, I’d bring the Ouai mini/travel leave in conditioner just in case, but honestly, unless you’re staying at like a La Quinta, it shouldn’t be an issue.
I built up a grab and go travel pouch and I have two (inside a larger zip carry all):
1: TSA stuff: liquids and anything that might “ping” TSA like powders or gels. I also decant larger “must have” items, but I save the little Sephora reward items or any minis that I get GWP or similar. There’s a company called Cadence that sells small magnetic travel decant containers and I have a handful of those I wash and use as needed as well.
2: Non TSA: eyeshadow, lipsticks, brushes/combs, toothbrush, razor, mini measuring tape, mini lint roller, etc.
What are these two brushes you need? I’m assuming wet and dry? I’d consider going for easy-care styles or using leave in conditioner, etc. rather than bringing two full sized brushes on a trip. I use a comb or a mini brush while traveling.
I shouldn’t even bother following up since I’m sure I’ll get blasted but I need to vent this out. I posted yesterday about no one in my immediate family wanting to visit my newborn and how (in a follow up comment) I would focus on some fun extended family visits that we had coming up instead. Then I wake up to an email from one of those relatives saying she’s shortening her planned 48 hour visit to less than 24 hours because of “golf club obligations creeping up on me.” The golf club doesn’t open for the season until two months later. My humiliation is complete and I’m off to Google new parent groups and ask my one local friend with kids for recommendations.
I don’t understand why you’re humiliated. This has nothing to do with you. Some people have families that are close and into babies and celebrating every family event and some people don’t, as many people yesterday shared. If that’s something you want, it’s very understandable to be upset about it and wish it was different, but you shouldn’t be humiliated. Unless there’s something you haven’t shared, the problem is them, not you!
+1 except I wouldn’t say they’re a “problem.” Visiting once in three months isn’t that weird, and shortening a planned visit happens sometimes.
Eh most new grandparents are very excited and do rearrange their lives to both spend time with the baby and assist the parents. She’s not out of line to be disappointed
“most new grandparents are very excited and do rearrange their lives to both spend time with the baby and assist the parents”
Maybe in certain immigrant cultures this is the norm, but I don’t think overall in the US it’s expected. My parents moved to our city when our kids were in preschool to be way more involved with our family and we’re very appreciative, so this isn’t coming from a place of bitterness, but I think what we have is incredibly rare. OP’s experience is much more typical than mine, at least among white Americans. I would find it off-putting if the grandparents expressed no interest in visiting, but I really don’t think one visit in the first three months is unusual at all. My in-laws only came twice in the first year of each of our kids’ lives and we were not at all offended. We continued to see them 1-2 times per year, and our now elementary age kids have a great relationship with them, although of course they’re not as close as with my local parents they see multiple times per week.
My family has been here for generations and my masters-degree educated mother changed jobs when I was pregnant so she would have more free time to help with the baby (we live in the same city and once my maternity leave was over I was going back to a litigation practice). My sister who lives on the other side of the country came to stay for a month to help (she was in college and on break) and my Dad and brother both came for a week.
Every family is different but it is not just “immigrant” grandparents who rearrange their lives and who value their family.
OP – I am so sorry you are going through this. But this is a reflection on them and not on you. I would absolutely encourage you to work on creating a local support network.
What a weird comment. This isn’t just common in immigrant circles. My WASPy been in the US for 100+ years family also greatly rearranged their schedules to a) help me out and b) spend time enjoying their new grandchild.
My parents both still work, but see their grandchild weekly. My younger brothers pop by to see the baby once or twice a month. My aunt (retired) basically set up camp to help me out
Agreed. One of the best things you can do for yourself too is to stop caring what some fictional people think. No one is thinking about how many family visits you’re getting or judging that, everyone has their own loves to worry about. If you want the visits because you love and like the people who aren’t visiting, that’s a different issue and you need to remember that relationships are a two way street. If you only care because of some imaginary “humiliation” then I’d recommend figuring out how to get over that.
+1. There is no reason to be humiliated!
I did not read the post yesterday, and I am honestly rarely in the camp to jump to suggesting therapy, but this sounds like it could be a manifestation of PPD or PPA. I would strongly encourage you to talk to a therapist.
Eh, I’m not sure that lacking the “village” that everyone says is so important postpartum is really PPD. This country has so few supports for new mothers and our social connections are fragmented. This thread is evidence of that.
I agree about the lack of support for new mothers, but I don’t think what OP is demanding is objectively reasonable.
Your village is local people. Unless you make the sacrifice to relocate to be near your parents, or you’re lucky enough to have them relocate to be near you, they’re not going to provide the kind of support you need as a new parent, so you have to build local connections anyway. The most loving grandparents in the world can’t be much practical help if they’re a plane flight away.
Right OP doesnt necessarily have PPD shes just sad she has a sh!tty family
OP seems to be having a significant overreaction to her extended family’s lack of enthusiasm for her baby, and overreactions can certainly be a manifestation of PPA. I agree that new moms need support, and I was extremely lucky to have my mom who was super helpful after my baby was born, but NONE of my extended family came to visit us specifically to meet our babies. I think that is normal in the US. I never even gave it a second thought. My extended family met the babies at holiday events where we traveled back to my home state (where most of my extended family still lives), or if they happened to be passing through my city for another reason.
Anon at 10:13 speaks the harsh truth. Build your own village. Build it local. You may well be righteously angry and disappointed and ten other negative feelings about your family’s lack of support, but those feelings are not assisting you in moving forward in a useful manner. You have a new child. Focus on building the life that best supports your family going forward instead of wasting your energy on what might have been.
I am also a little concerned for the OP. It seems that she knows her family and how they are by now, and this doesn’t seem to be abnormal for them. And honestly in my family, the level of family visits is even less than in hers!
People don’t tend to change…. especially your older relatives. And you can’t control them. You can only control how you respond to them. And being…. “humiliated” by this recent event is concerning to me.
I think it is a wonderful idea to look for a local new parent group.
OP, glad you followed up. I hope you are able to lean into your non-blood-family community. Winter can be hard and having a newborn is hard. I am glad you have a visitor and hope you are able to enjoy the hours you have together, whether it’s all baby-related or partly you catching up as adults. I did not post yesterday but if you were in my circle and I learned you wanted family around more, I wouldn’t find it embarrassing or question your value at all. I know knew mom life is a lot. Perhaps during feeding or bf sessions you consider listening to some Brene Brown. Her work on shame, language around naming emotions, and growing into one’s self were eye-opening to me.
Gently, your new baby is a life-changing event for you but it’s not that big a deal to anyone else. I like babies and kids and am happy to meet and snuggle extended family members babies, but it is not something I’m going to rearrange my life around because it’s not *my* baby. You seem to expect a level of excitement from extended family that is not common in my common, in my experience.
Huh, how is planning a pleasure visit “rearranging your life?” I don’t get it, although perhaps making visits sound like such a burden is part of the reason people feel shame (burdening others).
The baby is only three months old. People have already visited, the issue is she wants more visits. Expecting a second visit already is a lot. None of my parents or extended family members visited us more than twice in the first six months of our kids’ lives and only my parents came twice. I would describe my parents and in-laws as loving, involved grandparents. I also wouldn’t visit a family member’s new baby more than once, unless I happened to be in their city for other reasons.
IIRC, her parents live an hour away and have barely visited. I live near my parents and I’d be crushed if they didn’t visit my new baby more
Yes, the parents live one hour away and are the only ones who have visited (once).
But the relative is still coming! OP is just upset that she’s shortened the visit. That’s what people are getting at by saying the baby isn’t the be all, end all of other people’s lives. It’s perfectly reasonable to shorten a visit to 24 hours if you have other stuff going on. The relative is still meeting the new baby.
Honestly, this is where I am.
I mean…. You can only hold a newborn baby for so long, as a visitor. Do you want them to do laundry for you? Cook for you? It sounds to me like they are the demanding type of relative that actually expect you to take care of them too?!? A one day visit seems just about right.
I do think it would be lovely, if I was in your position, to have my mother come and stay for a week and be excited and teach me/reassure me/take care of me (!). I’m so sorry if this is what you were dreaming for. But it sounds to me like your Mom was never that type of Mom, yes?
I am so envious of you! My Mom died before I could try to have a baby on my own, so I gave up that dream. You are so, so lucky to be surrounded by a healthy beautiful new baby, a supportive husband, living in a nice place with secure lives, a large family (compared to mine) that aren’t that far away if you need them. Most of us don’t have that at all.
It is rearranging your life to go visit someone! Most people have limited vacation days, limited travel budgets, and a whole lot of weekend obligations at home. When I choose to visit someone I am prioritizing that visit over a whole lot of other things that are important to me, like a real vacation, or having a clean house, or even just not being frazzled and exhausted.
If making a visit is so easy, then you need to be the one doing the visiting and not demanding that others come to you. You seem to be making this into some sort of loyalty test that you’re setting your family up to fail.
Her parents live an hour away! That doesn’t require vacation time or budget! That’s what many people commute.
The logic that she could go visit them if she cares about seeing them still applies.
Visiting OP doesn’t sound like much of a pleasure.
I think she’s having a bit of a hard time. Which is understandable.
This is so, so rude. Why say this?
I think people on this board really overestimate how much travel is normal for a lot of people. More than half of Americans don’t fly at all in a typical year, and if they do, most of them take one or two flights. So, by definition, travel to visit a new baby is rearranging your life and doing something unusual and costly, even if it is something you want to do. And as someone with a chronic illness, travel takes a real toll that I often feel for weeks afterward. I imagine this is true for a lot of older people as well, plus all of the people who are afraid of flying or have other travel related anxieties. I do it anyway, for work or family reasons, but don’t dismiss how much of a burden travel can be for a lot of people, many of whom aren’t open about this (I know I don’t tell many people).
Yeah I tell precisely no one about my chronic disabilities, that’s private information that would be leveraged against me. Not even my parents know (though they could have if they weren’t neglectful and got my diagnosed as a child).
Yes, this. Most Americans fly once or twice a year at the very most. Many fly not at all. Traveling to meet a new baby would mean foregoing a vacation that year for many people. It’s a big ask! This board is wildly out of touch and thinks ten vacations a year is normal so what’s one more trip (and I say that as someone who takes a lot of vacations).
Her parents live ONE HOUR AWAY. That’s not traveling.
My extended family lives less than one our from Pittsburgh and never ever make the trip. Getting in the car to drive an hour is a lot for some people. OP is feeling sad and that is okay, too.
I suspect you wrote the same thing yesterday and I responded. But I’ll do it again.
It *does not matter* if you like babies. This is an event in someone else’s life. OP isn’t asking for excitement; she’s asking for action. I’ll offer the same analogy I did yesterday: I do not give a crap about marriages. But I still go to people’s weddings and offer happy congratulations. It’s not about *my* excitement.
Whether or not there is a mismatch between OP’s expectations of the action and her family’s expectations is what’s the issue here. It’s causing OP some pain. Whether or not this is because her expectations are too big or her family’s are too small sounds like a lifelong struggle, and this is making it come to the fore.
OP’s expectations are greater than what her family can deliver. The person with the greater expectations always needs to dial them back.
This. If I could control people, I’d stop one person from drinking and another from a toxic relationship. But I can’t just wish it into being no matter how much I want it to happen.
I didn’t comment yesterday. I agree that some level of showing up for someone else is important even if you’re not enthusiastic about it, like attending weddings and funerals and making an effort to meet a new baby. But they did visit! She wants more visits and longer visits. That’s what’s unreasonable to me…
Clearly this is family-dependent to some degree but in my (imo, loving!) extended family no one would travel visit a new baby twice in three months, except possibly the grandparents, and even that is not an expectation.
I think we’re on the same page — there’s a mismatch in expectations, and the OP is hurt about that mismatch. Whether her expectations are unreasonable or her family’s are anemic sounds like a long-term issue in this family.
FWIW, my family didn’t visit more than once in three months, and not everyone did. It would have taken a flight for most, and that strikes me as too much to expect. In an era of FaceTime and whatnot, in-person visits can be approximated.
Agree that the emotional support matters. We’ll probably only visit our new nephew once in his first six months, but we’ll be FaceTiming and texting and sending gifts. If the family is doing none of that, I can understand more why OP is hurt.
New babies are a big deal to most families, especially to grandparents. We have cultural milestones around the arrival of new babies.
This.
She’s not upset great aunt Bertha from 8 hours away hasn’t visited.
She’s upset her own parents one hour away have only visited once.
She’s upset that an extended family member (not the baby’s grandparent) shortened a trip from 48 to 24 hours. That’s wildly unreasonable. It’s really nice that the extended family member is coming at all!
Wow, that’s unkind. Newborns are a big deal in many immediate families.
This is such a you problem, please talk this out with a therapist. People are visiting you! They aren’t wrong or humiliating you by not putting your baby above their own lives. The main character syndrome is strong.
Yup.
This.
Have to agree with this as well. Also, if parents are one hour away, why not go visit them more often? Baby is almost out of newborn stage and traveling that distance should become less challenging soon.
She’s still coming! You seem to want way more than people are available to give. 48 hours is an awful lot to ask of someone who isn’t your parent or sibling.
I think you need to stop making everything about yourself. Have you tried asking your relative about her involvement with the golf club? It seems important to her. If she’s in a leadership role she probably would love to talk about it because it consumes a lot of her mental energy, but she’s holding back because she knows no one else cares.
My MIL is on the board of her country club and takes it very seriously, and there are indeed a lot of things that have to happen before the golf season begins. I have a different but even more involved hobby, and the only reason I will skip out on those obligations is to attend my own children’s events. It doesn’t mean I don’t care about my family; it just means I’ll see them in a way that fits in around my inflexible commitments and doesn’t cause me to miss big opportunities that don’t come around often.
Weddings, births, and funerals are historically and culturally far more significant than hobbies, even if those hobbies are significant to the individual. It’s not wrong to care about them and want family to celebrate them (and to celebrate for their events too).
The relative is still planning to visit the baby, though. There is no cultural requirement that she spend 48 hours to do so.
But they did visit! People only “get” one day for a wedding or funeral, it’s unreasonable to expect multiple visits for each new baby.
And I actually disagree on new babies having equal importance to weddings and funerals. In my family, aunts, uncles and cousins would not skip a family wedding or funeral unless hospitalized or something like that, but don’t generally make special trips to meet new babies. My kids met my aunts and uncles when we were in their cities for weddings or they were in our city for work. It was fine.
The phrase “in my family” is key here — that’s your and your family’s expectations of one another, so there are no hurt feelings. The problem is the ways this family isn’t on the same page as one another, not what’s generally or universally acceptable.
I disagree on babies being as important too. I come from a big Irish family and my people have babies constantly. We meet them at the next gathering and the parents being the babies to the family. We are a big, close family but babies don’t merit the same showing up that actual accomplishments and life events do.
The fact that they’re not on the same page doesn’t make her family members wrong.
Babies are a biological function, in no way equivalent to a wedding or funeral
Death is a biological function.
Babies also just … exist and can be visited at any time that’s convenient. They’re not a one-time event like a wedding or funeral.
Sure. Graves can be visited anytime, too.
I mean, you can extend this logic.
“Deceased people just…exist, and can be visited at any time that’s convenient” (via gravesite or memory, etc)
“Married people just….exist, and can be celebrated any time that’s convenient.”
Weddings and funerals gather the entire extended family in one place at one moment in time. Babies don’t do that. New parents wouldn’t want that! Obviously people attend weddings to celebrate the couple and attend funerals to support the close loved ones of the deceased, but for a lot of people there is also the big added benefit of getting to see their entire extended family at once, which isn’t a factor when people have babies.
It isn’t *necessarily* a factor when people have new babies. Part of what keeps happening is that people use their own experiences as a universal yardstick. In my family, there *is* a gathering of extended family for a birth. That doesn’t make it the norm, nor does that make it outrageously outside of possible expectation.
Again, the OP is upset because there’s a gap between what she wants and what her family members are giving. It’s not clear if that’s a miscommunication, an accumulation of mismatched expectations, general apathy and neglect, etc. There are ways to deal with those issues: honest conversation, therapy, redirection of needs, etc. But this board keeps going around and around dictating what should be expected and needed and wanted, based solely on personal desires (“I don’t like babies” “I prefer teenagers”), personal possibilities (“My MIL works hard on her boards” “Most people don’t travel much”), and self-righteous diagnoses (“You’re a narcissist” “You seem unpleasant to visit”).
That sucks and I’m sorry for you.
If you’re anywhere near Cincinnati, post a burner email. I will gush over your new baby (even though I’m not much into babies) and my very gentle, very kind pre-K kid can play with your baby.
Thanks so much – nowhere near but I appreciate the kindness.
If you’re in Atlanta, I would be happy to get together. It really does suck when your family isn’t interested.
Same in Chicago!
I’m sorry your family is not more supportive of visiting you and baby. You posted yesterday about seeing friends who have families who are a lot more involved, so it is normal to feel left out and discouraged.
If I’m remembering correctly, you also posted about doing a lot for your family but not getting much in return. It seems like there are some deeper family dynamics that are coming to light now. You may need to reframe expectations and start building close relationships with others. I hope you are successful in building a new community.
Also, what is your husband’s family like? Are they open to visiting and offering support?
You are definitely correct on family dynamics. This is making me realize that part of the reason I feel hurt is because I am really good at “showing up” (and I know my family appreciates it). Whether it’s a funeral, wedding, cancer diagnosis, even a freaking golf club fundraiser, I’m there because I want to be. I like supporting people and I’m good at it. But now I realize it feels unbalanced (not just with the new baby) and I’m sure that’s contributing to my feelings. I guess it stings that I’ll be there when someone is going through something really hard, but my messages are left on read when I invite them to something really happy for us.
My husband’s mother is heartbroken she can’t visit due to significant political barriers I can’t get into here. She and my husband’s sister live in the Middle East.
“I like supporting people and I’m good at it.” When you show up for people, you are making it all about yourself. No wonder they aren’t dropping everything to visit you.
Your last sentence is unnecessarily nasty.
Yeah this sounds like something my mother would say. She is in fact not good at supporting people, she shows up and makes everything about herself and it’s very stressful when I’m going through a medical crisis and she needs her ego stroked.
Some of you are punching down and it says a lot more about you than OP. My God.
Agree with anon at 10:19 am.
You have no way of knowing that and you’re just being nasty . Some people (the OP) ate great in a support role, some aren’t.
You (9:30am) honestly sound unhinged and mean. What a wild take.
General comment to all those who say OP is wrong:
Family dysfunction can be a lot like a hostile work environment. Sometimes, any single problem is enough to show that something is wrong; however, it’s usually the cumulative effects that wreck people.
Maybe any specific example we could say “but maaaaybe this is okay because Reasons.” I don’t think the OP needs to enumerate every single time she’s showed up for family and they haven’t showed up for her. This isn’t a freaking trial; it’s an Internet forum for strangers to solicit help.
Yeah. I agree with this comment. OP, I didn’t comment yesterday but it’s ok for you to feel bummed. Some families are just naturally selfish and insular (and are full of excuses). I hope you and your little family thrive a build a village you can be proud of.
OP’s description makes it sound as if she is the one creating the hostile family environment, not the other way round.
Agreed. Other than the brother who visited her city and didn’t see her (and she said he has other issues), nobody in her extended family has done anything wrong, imo.
What is WRONG with you people? The OP’s family isn’t showing up for her and you all need to attack her.
Completely agree.
Thank you – I appreciate this and it’s given me food for thought.
This. Coming from family dysfunction, the moment that breaks you is generally very similar to the old article about getting divorced over the dishes.
You know the old trope about a couple having a baby to fix their relationship? It doesn’t work for that and it doesn’t work for family who isn’t close in that way to begin with.
By all means mourn not having that kind of a family, but saying “my humiliation is complete” as if you’re a Jane Austen character who was caught walking alone with a man? Girl, no!
But she IS the main character don’t you see? Why aren’t they paying attention to her?!?!
It is humiliating when your family snubs you at important life events.
They aren’t snubbing her!
+1 good grief. I understand disappointment that they aren’t more involved but they aren’t “snubbing” her by any stretch of the imagination.
All of this sounds like the straw that’s breaking the camel’s back — that these slights are examples of a larger problem that’s been hurtful for a long time. I’m sorry.
It is time for you to step back, focus on your new family, and let your extended family engage or not. That will take time for you to come to terms with, so give yourself some time. And eventually, when you come up for air, you might want to talk to a therapist specifically about what seems like a hurtful mismatch between needs and hopes from your family members.
When your extended family comes, you have a choice. You could address this directly: “I’m hurt that you shortened your stay for the golf club.” Be prepared for defensiveness or rejection. You could decide to accept what’s offered (24 hours) and move on; in that case, you’ll have to do the work to actually move on and stop pressing this bruise.
Good luck. Family stuff is hard, and hurt feelings tend to accumulate.
Also? Congratulations on your new baby. In my experience, it’s a tough, wonderful, beautiful experience.
They’re not slights. OP’s narcissism is turning them into slights.
Perceived slights, I meant to say.
OP is a real person who is reading these replies. It’s ironic – when you call *her* a narcissist, you’re doing it in a way that shows that you have no regard for her feelings.
The projection in these replies is astonishing.
This so over the top and mean.
Begging you to get off the internet for a while.
+1 Congrats on your new baby and that it’s time to take a step back and focus on the family you’re building. It is hard to have expectations built on seeing other families and accept that your family of origin will never be like that.
I have similar family. Over the years, here’s what’s worked for me:
1) Make the effort that I can give joyfully and that won’t make me feel bad if they don’t reciprocate in effort. I view it as a kindness to relatives to refrain from doing things for them that are going to make me have bad feelings about them if they don’t do what I want.
2) Joyfully accept what effort they’re willing to make to the extent it works for my family. If I’m not up to anything when someone is passing through town, why not have them over for coffee? But, I’m not going to clear my schedule.
3) Figure out alternatives to meet needs that others have met by family.
4) Appreciate the benefits that come with having distant family. Intense elder care? I’ll make a few arrangements, but when the need arises, I won’t have it take over my life like I’ve had before with someone closer. Decisions about child rearing? All my spouse and me. Decisions about holidays? Spouse, children, and me can decide what we’d like to do.
This is the best answer.
I would disagree on confronting the relative who is cutting the visit back from 48 to 24 hours. Instead, I would be super-performatively grateful to her for taking the time to see the new baby! Nothing productive can come from expressing that you were hurt by her curtailing the visit, and it might result in her never visiting again, and encouraging others in the family not to bother. Bottom line, please try not to make her sorry she came to visit you. At a minimum, this will make the visit more light-hearted and pleasant for all; and who knows, she might spread the word that visiting the baby is just a wonderful thing to do. Just my few thoughts.
You sound a lot like my husband, who constantly gripes that his parents and siblings never call him to ask about his life while conveniently forgetting that they all traveled hundreds or thousands of miles to watch our daughter star in the school play and then to attend her graduation, watch all of her concerts and plays that are streamed, etc. etc. When they do call he just monologues and never asks them about their own lives. It’s no wonder they never call.
Or my mother in law who we can never visit enough. We could move in and it wouldn’t satisfy her.
OP, gently, have you been screened for postpartum depression (or anxiety)? Sometimes it manifests in different ways, but perhaps your hurt is being magnified because of something along these lines.
Some folks just aren’t into babies, but are more into children when they become actual people. I enjoy seeing my nieces SO much more now that they’re their own people with personalities who do things. When they were babies who laid around and cried, that wasn’t as fun for me. Also, with the pandemic we’ve all lived through, folks are (hopefully) cautious about exposing tiny humans to big people germs.
I am sorry you’re hurting, and I think talking with a doctor or therapist to name the hurt and work through it would be a smart thing. Unfortunately, we cannot control other people. Have you told your family how this makes you feel, or are you one of those families that keep it all bottled up?
I agree with this because it’s something I did as a post partum mom. I ruminated on perceived slights from my (now ex) in laws and it was horrible. Are they horrible people? Yes. Was I off my rocker for ruminating over their behavior? Yes. With time and distance, I know that there was a lot within my control, and I could have handled it so much better. OP, please seek some help. And I’m sorry for some of the vicious replies you have been getting.
I’m like this, I’m not comfortable around babies. They are simultaneously rigid yet wriggly and I don’t understand them. But, I’m there with your three year old, your middle schooler, and your pre-teen. I’m going to hang with your kids until they outgrow me, including or especially the difficult times. My brother has literally been waiting in the driveway with his daughter and her bag because I’m happy to take my whiny, displeased, frustrated ten year old niece for a day.
My point is that if you want people in your children’s lives, you need to accept what they offer instead of ruminating on what you want.
OP, I’d pay attention to this comment. Your reaction is out of whack with what’s actually happening and that’s a classic sign of depression.
If I remember correctly, your parents live an hour away and have only visited once, right?
Thats so beyond the pale and I’d be really reconsidering if I want a relationship with them moving forward
I’m bewildered by some of these comments. OP, I’m so sorry no one from your family is oooohing and aaahing over your new baby – I think it’s a very normal think to wish for. And it’s something that in many families is common. I wish I could send you my mom. She would come visit for a week, tell you your baby is the sweetest baby in the world, cook, clean, take care of you, and generally do anything she can to help you have wonderful memories of your early days as a new mother. I think it’s okay to grieve not having that kind of support, and then….invest in the community around you. Find the women who are happy to be adopted as a surrogate grandma! (If you’re the type of person who is open to going to church, I can practically promise you that if you go to a small Lutheran church you’ll find some older women happy to apply for the job:-))
OP –
1) It’s totally OK to feel sad and disappointed. Therapy and a PPD check is a great idea – not because it’s there’s anything wrong with your feelings, but because SO MANY WOMEN have PPD and because becoming a mother triggers all sorts of feelings and reflections about your own family of origin. A therapist can be a gift to help you think through this.
2) Anon at 10:37 has great suggestions about finding chosen family/community around you. If you are open to church or religion, then this is a wonderful time to connect with that side of you. There are so many people who are looking for intergenerational contact and friendship and would love nothing more than to snuggle your baby and tell you how beautiful the baby is. These kinds of relationships take work, to be sure, but it sounds to me like you are longing for community and this would feed your soul.
3) If church isn’t for you, I would think about mom’s groups to get that social support.
4) Finally: there was just an article in the Times talking about how older people are often grieving the fact that they do not have grandchildren. I wish there were a good way to connect people in that generation with all of the new moms who feel isolated! The best tool I can think of is church, but there must be some sort of other way to do this. We really need more ways to build intergenerational community.
You’re doing great. I wish I could come admire your baby! Hang in there.
these two posts are what the OP needs right now, not these other mean responses. OP – if it helps, yesterday i was on my phone with my MIL talking to her about us visiting her and I asked if we should plan around my nephew’s (her daughter’s only son) first birthday. [none of us live in the same place]. she told me that she doesn’t really want to go to Boston for my nephew’s first birthday bc it is inconvenient from her beach house where she spends the summer. she would go if my SIL really cared, but she thinks my SIL won’t care and that my SIL’s inlaws will be there… on the flip side, my parents (well now just my dad) really care about seeing my kids on/close to their birthday, as do most of my parents friends with their grandchildren. My MIL is not my favorite person in the world, but we’ve come a long way. Her attitude towards this reminds me of when we got married – she had many many opinions, but was unwilling to do any of the work or inconvenience herself at all to actually visit the venues she had opinions about.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I saw your post yesterday and I’m sorry to say, cut your losses, get some good therapy and lean into the parent community.
I’m close to one parent and no contact with the other, not for my lack of trying to maintain a relationship. They have never met my youngest child.
It hurts but it also makes life a bit harder. I buy gifts on behalf of that parent for my children. Grandparents day at school is hard and the one grandparent shows up to make a big deal of their grandchildren.
There is nothing wrong with you. You didn’t cause it. You can’t fix it. The best you can do is build a healthy family dynamic with your husband and ‘stop the rot’ affecting future generations.
Wow – I’m amazed you do that. Tricky to explain later, no?
OP, I am SO with you. It really sucks. I had only one relative (a sibling) to invite to my wedding, and sibling got “sick” and bailed at the last minute. So I had 0 relatives at my wedding, which was, like you said, humiliating. I kept thinking of Betty Draper’s dad saying about Don at their wedding, “he has no people! what kind of person has no people!”
I’ve leaned in hard into having close friends who are like family (only children are great for this! they are like cousins you get to choose!) and getting closer with my in-laws, who are luckily wonderful.
The Mad Men example is spot on. It IS humiliating.
My family were jerks to me at my wedding. It was humiliating.
Several of my very close friends are only children. I’m working on getting the mom of one of them to be a surrogate grandma to my kid; friend doesn’t have kids so his mom is all about surrogate grandkids.
MeganMarkle had no people at her wedding. We see how that turned put LOL.
? Her mom was there.
@Anon – I wish I could give you a hug
I know “don’t feel that way” isn’t helpful advice, but I’d really really encourage you not to feel “humiliated” by the change in plans. It sounds like you’re thinking of it as kind of a personal insult, like you and your family aren’t valuable or loved (and maybe then embarrassed. for feeling that way!)- obviously you know your family, and it’s possible they’re just TA, but I would guess it’s way more likely they don’t mean this as some kind of personal attack on you
Separately – and I’m speculating here – but it sounds like overall your need for affection/shows of value/whatever isn’t really being met right now. You’re probably spending all your time and energy caring for a newborn – is anyone taking care of you? Can you tell your spouse you need them to take on XYZ, or bring you flowers, or hire a sitter to come, or anything else that sounds good?
For what it’s worth – new baby visits aren’t the norm in my family and I wish they were! I LOVE newborns, I would love to visit my cousins and do their dishes and hold the baby so their parents can shower and all that jazz
If you’re mad about the feedback yesterday, why are you circling back? I’m sorry you don’t have the family relationships you’ve dreamed of. Many of us don’t. It’s not humiliating and you actually are in control of how you choose to interpret this.
Of all the replies here, this is the one to which I relate the most.
In rereading your post from yesterday, your baby is 3 months old, your parents live an hour away and they’ve only visited once?
That’s heartbreaking.
Postpartum is a time that’s notoriously hard for new mothers (even if they don’t have PPD or PPA, and many obviously have those too). Physically you’re recovering, it’s exhausting, emotionally you’re all over the place, and you’re now responsible for your baby. Any decent parent would make more of an effort to support their daughter.
Then, you’d expect that your parents are happy about the baby. Most are, thats a reasonable assumption.
In my circles, most grandparents who live nearby see the baby / new mother weekly. Most who live further away come less frequently, obviously, but stay for several days.
My family is basic white mutt (only saying this to counter a statement above that this is only common among certain immigrant groups). I live ~45 mins away, my mom was over every day for the first few days and then a few times a week after that (my mom still works too). My sister lives a 10 hour drive away, my mom drove down and stayed about a week and then a few months later flew down for a long weekend. This is pretty common among my friends too.
I’m sorry you’re going through this and I’m sorry some people are being so vicious about it. I’ve noticed over the years that one of the things people are nastiest about here is anyone saying they want to be closer to their family of origin or that they’re disappointed in their extended family in some way. I think it’s a combination of cultural difference, where people who aren’t from close knit families just can’t understand how it works and how important it is for those who are, and people coping with their own issues and estrangements. It’s perfectly legitimate to be disappointed about this and it’s not a sign that you’re mentally ill, have a personality disorder or are a bad person. Sheesh. Agree with others who are encouraging you to be compassionate on yourself and focus on what you can control.
Agree – it’s really clear here that a lot of commenters have put up their own defensive walls after being hurt. I wish there could be more solidarity over these very real issues of isolation and disconnection.
Can’t speak for others, but not the case for me. I’m super close to my parents and they’ve gone way above and beyond to help with my kids. I still don’t think OP’s expectations are reasonable, and I don’t understand why she can’t visit her parents if connecting more with them is a big priority. It’s not like she gave birth two weeks ago — at three months you can travel, and the travel normally goes both ways.
Genuinely asking: her parents live one hour away. You don’t think it’s odd that they’ve only drive that hour one time in the three months since the baby was born??
I think many grandparents who live an hour away would choose to visit more, sure. I think my parents would have, and I would hope to when I’m in that stage of life (if my kids want me to). But there’s a difference between what some people might want to do and the bare minimum. There are a lot of reasons why they might not be able to or might not want to visit more, and I don’t think one visit in three months is so far out of the norm that it makes them bad people. If they hadn’t visited at all, I’d understand her reaction, but since they have visited it feels a little disproportionate to me.
I’m also confused about why she seems to think the visiting arrow only points one way. It’s really not that hard to drive an hour with one infant, so if she wants to spend more time with them, going to see them seems like an obvious starting point? It’s not like she has 4 kids under 3 or something. And they’re presumably at least somewhat elderly, so putting all the visiting burden on them doesn’t seem super fair to me.
Yes, but it’s so much more overwhelming to travel to see grandparents with a 3 month old infant, particularly when you are not feeling good about them. It’s very understandable that a new mom and newborn would want to stick close to home for the first six months and not be exposed to the outside world, and ask that anyone who would like to see the baby (they grow up so fast!) arrange to stop by. In any event, feelings are feelings, and if the OP feels humiliated, that is what she feels — there is no right or wrong about that, only feelings. It’s unfortunate, but the way forward is to move through those feelings to a better place. It does exist!
The commenters are largely suggesting that rather than be mad at the lack of people, do some introspection. You can’t change people but you can build new relationships with other people.
Can we not?
My family of origin is beyond effed up. (I’m the one whose violent older brother threatened to shoot me over Easter.)
I’m one of OP’s biggest supporters here because I know that hurt and pain. To me, it looks like the nasty comments are from people who received such support form their own families but feel entitled to not give it back.
OP, people on this board are SO WEIRD about families. I’m so sorry they’re being so awful to you. Most people don’t seem to be terribly close (emotionally and proximity) to family and think close families are odd. I feel for them.
I think your disappointment is totally valid. Hugs.
I feel like something that is getting lost in this discussion is that so many adult children find their parents (their childrens’ grandparents) overbearing and want them to visit less. I’m very far from grandparent age, but I feel like grandparents sort of can’t win in today’s society. If you don’t visit all the time, you’re emotionally checked out and abandoning your family. But if you visit regularly, you’re overbearing and intrusive. If OP hasn’t asked them directly to visit more, I wouldn’t assume they’re uninterested. They may just be trying to give the new family some space and not be a burden.
People are weirdly against family. Humans are meant to have a village and usually that is made up of family.
My parents are sometimes great, sometimes not but I’d fully, fully expect to put aside my feelings and have them very involved in my family and children’s day to day lives. It’s weird not to (unless they’re just bad and no redeeming qualities).
I’m not from a culture identified as being overly family oriented – it’s not cultural it’s just normal
I’m childfree so not your target audience, but I am extremely close to my parents (talk daily) and if I had a child I don’t think they’d be very active or engaged in the beginning. They don’t really like babies and would probably want to give me space to figure out how to be a parent with my husband. They are also 80 and don’t like driving, so even though they only live 30 minutes from me, it’s a big deal for them to visit me and not the other way around. On the other hand, if I told them I needed help, they would drop everything and be there for me. On the flip side, my husband’s parents would probably invite themselves to live with us for a month because they love babies more than anything and no amount of help would make that misery tolerable for me while I was dealing with learning to be a parent.
The fact that they haven’t visited as much as you would like doesn’t have to be an indication of a poor relationship with them or humiliating to you, but could just be a reflection of what they are comfortable doing or what they think might be best for you. If you’d asked your mom to visit and help or do something you needed and they said no, I’d view it differently. But if you haven’t asked or don’t need help and just want their engagement, I wouldn’t hold this against them or assume that you have a poor relationship or that it’s a reflection of you in any way. It’s also ok to talk to them about how engaged they want to be with their grandchild and make sure you guys are on the same page so that you can adjust your expectations accordingly (note: you can’t force them to be more engaged, you can only address your own expectations and work through the emotions of that if you guys are not in sync). Hope this helps.
OP, I’m so sorry, that sucks and is hurtful. I missed yesterday’s post- have you communicated your hurt and desire for more to them?
Hopefully you can build your chosen family locally— your chosen family will be there and support you.
Sending hugs
Honey, are you sure you’re not depressed? I just say this as a fellow mother who had some issues with PPD and didn’t realize it until I had suffered for quite a while. Hugs to you.
I mean I think it’s weird to a) ever go months without seeing your parents b) even weirder if they only live an hour away and c) weirder still given there’s a grandchild.
I’m 45 mins from my parents and a few aunts and uncles and I see someone in my family at least 3-4x a month.
I posted yesterday that my family is like this, too, and that it is a source of grief for me. I’m not going to read the other 120 comments you got, because I’m sure a lot of them are telling you you’re wrong to be hurt that your relative is prioritizing her golf club over your baby. And I don’t think you are wrong. It’s okay, of course, for her to do that — it’s her life. But it is also okay for it to hurt and be disappointing, and there’s nothing wrong with you for feeling that way.
I found talking about the grief in therapy was really helpful. I struggled at first with acceptance and setting boundaries. Being able to get to “of course they can do it and of course I can be hurt by it and of course that hurt doesn’t entitle me to ask them to change it” took time, but I am there now, and you’ll get there, too.
Sending love. And seriously, congratulations on baby being here! It is a wonderful experience, and I hope you’re able to soak it up.
All I’ll say that after reading these comments, I now understand how Trump won. What a miserable bunch of people (some of) you are. There’s nothing wrong with OP being sad that her parents only drove to see her once, and her brother never bothered. Then as icing on the cake – the family member that was going to come for 2 days cut her visit short. Of course that hurts, OP was looking forward to it in lieue of her parents not wanting to come over. Whether you’d be hurt by a family like that is beside the point – OP is and was trying to get a little support on a messaging board that likes to say they support each other…. but as true Trumpers it’s impossible for some of you to support someone who’s life is different than yours. Unbelievable.
Weird to tie this to politics – this place is super Democratic compared to most spaces, I’d guess among people actively commenting >90% supported Kamala. I’m a “blue no matter who” voter (and a parent who enjoys snuggling friends’ and family member’s new babies) but outside of the baby’s parents and maaaaybe grandparents, new babies just aren’t the center of someone else’s universe.
We can play that game both ways. Kamala voters don’t care about kids; they are addicted to having a politician as a fake mom (“Momala”); they don’t support natalism.
See how silly that sounds?
OMG you just need to get over this. Nobody cares about somebody else’s baby.
What a downright psychopathic thing to say. Most of us care very much about our loved ones’ babies (and pets and parents and hobbies and careers and books and activities).
Do you just…not love the people in your life?
More like people in their life don’t love them!
Well, from the range of these posts, you can see how differently people can read a situation.
I encourage you to focus on your immediate family now, and taking care of yourself. I am a bit worried about you.
Sadly, it sounds like your relatives are not going to give you what you want. We have no choice but to accept this. You can make an effort to speak up and make your needs known, and make direct invitations. But then you have to accept what happens.
I truly hope you start a regular video chat with your MIL overseas. Call her on a regular schedule and share with her every new change, milestone and let her be your excited parent. I am sure she would be thrilled to visit remotely as often as you would let her. And I am hoping that the future for your child means summers spent visiting relatives in this distant land, and learning a 2nd language during the early years. One of the greatest gifts MIL can give her grandchild is a 2nd language.
Rettes, I’m looking for some coping strategies. As a judicial officer who has sworn to uphold the constitution, I’m having a hard time watching the antics of the incoming administration and media, government officials, and judicial officers who are helping them, notwithstanding the lack of laws to support their actions. Up is down, black is white, asserting jurisdiction where there is none, failing to apply stare decisis, etc. I’d like to stick my head in the sand for the next few years, but how? It’s affecting my mental health. Anyone else feel the same way?
Yes, and my coping mechanism is to not watch or read about it. I have decided to focus on following local politics and making an impact locally, where my voice is heard and my dollars can help with change.
+1 to wonk. It helps no one if I feel awful all the time because I’m well-informed about every awful thing that I’m powerless to change. I limit my news intake, exercise enough for my body and brain to feel good, see friends, and do what I can with my time and money to help others. I plan to do what I can to support Dems in the midterms.
I also limit conversation about how awful the awful stuff is, because it doesn’t help. I will talk about things I can do or others are doing to help people who need help.
Showing up and being a good judge is an excellent way to help society. I hope you stick with it, OP.
I have been doing all of this, but then feel horribly guilty that I am just letting this chaos fly by me and not responding.
My parents protested in the 60’s and 70’s. I feel like a fraud in comparison. As the ball continues to roll downhill, I fear we will wait too late to try to stop it. But I don’t know what to do. And I feel like not talking about it … being silenced… means Trump has one and has our tacit approval.
Yes. I have stopped reading or listening to Internet news. I stopped right after the election. It has been very, very helpful for my mental health, and it’s also made me much more intentional about what news to consume and where to put my energies.
It took a week or so to get over the automatic clicks, so give yourself some time. But my guess is that you’ll find yourself more able to focus on the smaller area around you, including local newscasts or even newspapers (!).
Phase 2 is getting off social media entirely (the execrable Facebook and instagram, twitter/X, etc.)
Do you mean you’re a lawyer? This is a bit grandiose.
I assumed that “judicial officer” meant she was a hearing officer, magistrate, commissioner, etc.
It means I’m a judge. One who has been taught to apply the law, to rely on stare decisis, to follow the rulings of higher courts in handing down my rulings. It is hard when you see higher courts or other judges who are twisting the law to serve their political or personal whims, and an incoming administration which has zero respect for the law unless it suits their needs. I don’t care about political affiliation. I care about following the laws of our nation.
Please stay on the bench and keep upholding the Constitution.
Then I stand corrected and hear hear, please keep doing the right thing.
Then I stand corrected and hear hear, please keep doing the right thing.
+1 We need people who are willing to stay in the fight. Please stay and continue to apply the constitution and laws to the cases in front of you. We need voices who are willing to say that what is happening is not ok. We need judges and senior attorneys who can show those following behind us that we don’t have to bend to political whims to be successful. I can only imagine that being on the bench is lonely these days, more so than even before. (Side Note: The judge I clerked for had one lawyer friend who refused to take cases in front of the judge in order to be his friend. He would call the judge at least once a week just to chat.) But know that there are so many of us who have the faintest hope that there are those who are willing to do what you are. Please, hang in there. If you’re looking for distractions, may I suggest going deep down the wormhole on ACOTAR, Fourth Wing, etc.?
Yes, please stay! I’m about to start a state level HO/ALJ job and I really feel strongly that we need good people doing the right thing, especially now. Don’t leave your position open for someone who does not have the same values.
thank you both! i said to a friend yesterday that I feel like we are living in an episode of SNL, except it’s real life. Like since when do we need to rename the gulf of mexico, annex Canada and im so confused about Greenland. aren’t there enough actual issues happening in our existing country
I thought we learned last time that outrageous stuff like this is distraction from actual changes. Don’t take the bait. Especially when it’s the exact same meaningless bait (Greenland) as last time.
I don’t know anything about your career, but maybe this is a time to focus on the next generation. I’m not sure what types of career development judges are allowed to help with, but it feels important to have balanced perspectives speaking to the next generation of lawyers, law enforcement, possible future judges, etc. If you’re allowed to give talks to professional organizations/colleges, please do. When I show up for jury duty, I do really appreciate the judges who come down and explain why this civic duty is important (also why it’s important even when no one gets called for that day).
If there are groups like the Federalist Society that are formed to push a set of beliefs, I’d like to think that there are middle of the road voices out there too.
She can certainly mentor her law clerks to be the next generation of judicial leaders. She can also help develop and inspire young lawyers by being a thoughtful, fair decision-maker and by treating the parties and attorneys in her courtroom as human beings worthy of respect and dignity, which so many judges don’t do.
Same, same. My close colleagues and I are mercifully close to retirement but these jobs are certainly not what they once were for many reasons including the ones you mentioned. All you can do is just keep fighting the good fight and doing what you know is the right thing. I mean, what’s the alternative?
I am also a judicial officer. I struggled with this through the last Trump administration and continue to struggle with it.
Equally concerningly is that those who come before me no longer believe the court system, justice, or the rule of law — regardless of case type. More and more, litigants ignore or openly defy court orders. It gets worse every day. I am likely going to retire sooner as a result.
Please stay! We need everyone who can actually apply the rules consistently to stay in office. And if you get some batshit crazy submissions, take the time to explain why in light of precedent or the record they are so far off point, in the hopes your appellate court will apply some deference to your fact finding and won’t start writing on a totally blank slate on the law. You might also try protecting yourself with alternative bases for your findings, to protect yourself as much as possible. It will be more work, but so important!
I don’t need to keep up with current events for my work, so I haven’t opened a news site since Election Day. This has made a dramatic difference in my baseline contentedness / happiness. Not sure if you’re able to get away with limiting news consumption, but that’s where I’d start.
Anywho, I’ve become very informed on the daily weather. And I would rate my mental health as quite good for a January.
Does anyone know if I can eat the reseleable 4 oz (applegate brand) pepperoni packets if they haven’t been refrigerated (forgot to put them in fridge). Package says “refrigerate after opening”)
I don’t know what your standards would be, but I’ve done this (with this exact brand) and it’s been fine. Data set of one, I know.
My standards are that I don’t get sick and that it tastes mostly ok lol. Is the taste a bit off or something?
When in doubt, throw it out. It’s pepperoni. Buy some on your next grocery trip and don’t risk food poisoning.
Yes. It’s a $4 item.
isn’t packaged pepperoni like this frequently stored and sold at room temp? Why would it need to be refrigerated before opening?
Processed meats are usually full of some sort of preservative, even if it’s just the salt content, so if it was just left out overnight on the counter it should be perfectly fine. It will probably even taste better at room temperature.
If it doesn’t smell bad or have visible mold, go for it.
I assume “refrigerate after opening” means it doesn’t need refrigerated before because of how it was packaged, and you are good to go if you have not yet opened the package.
But from personal experience, opened pepperoni and pepperoni that does need to be kept cold from the start is pretty obviously off if it gets left out for any length of time.
Looking for your favorite quick recipes for lunches and dinners. I am going through a very busy stretch but want to avoid eating out and eat healthy to the extent possible.
busy & healthy together means semi-homemade to me- a la
bagged salad + shredded rotisserie chicken
pita, hummus, carrots + a TJ’s Indian dip thing (channa masala is my current fave)
bean-based soups to heat up
The bagged salad + chicken + avocado is my daily lunch.
I’m also a fan of bagged salad + chicken + avocado. I just get the frozen precooked diced chicken and microwave it.
I like to get pre-made salads from the grocery store for times like these
I subscribe to Thistle when I’m super busy.
I’m a Hungry Roof gal myself and it’s a game changer. Easy fast healthy and generally affordable meals delivered weekly!
I rely a lot on frozen semi prepared stuff to make rice bowls with:
Microwaveable rice + frozen stir fry veggies (or other veggie blend) + TJs frozen beef bulgogi is my current favorite.
Pasta + jarred sauce + frozen meatballs + veg blend.
Rice + shrimp or fish + avocado + cucumber “sushi bowl”
Salad + chicken (rotisserie or other) + rice + veg blend.
Do not think in terms of “recipes.” Think in terms of “food components.” One component is “protein,” so you think about pre-cooked or no-cook proteins like rotisserie chickens, canned tuna, etc. Another component could be “vegetable” or “carbohydrate,” so you think of bagged salads or dehydrated mashed potatoes. Then combine the components.
I like baked sweet potato or potato with almost anything on them. Chili, baked beans, roasted vegetables and a tahini sauce, etc.
Pick a protein, a vege, and a carb.
Easy protein options: rotisserie chicken, can of beans, tofu, can of tuna, hard boiled eggs
For veges, I find it easiest to just oven roast a couple big trays of veges.
Carb can be baguettes, pasta, quinoa, etc.
Add in a fruit once or twice a day.
Make a pot of Cincinnati chili and keep it in the fridge. Dole out a bowlful and heat in the microwave at lunch time on successive days. Top it with shredded cheese, sliced avocado, sour cream/Greek yogurt. No oil in the recipe and you may use lean ground beef or ground turkey.
Also, you can prepare classic tuna salad, mixing in grated radishes in addition or instead of the usual celery, carrots, bell peppers, etc. Radishes in tuna and salmon salad were a revelation to me.
I also do a lot of sheet pan dinners. You can roast chicken thighs and pre-cut frozen or fresh veggies in 20-40 minutes. Switch out the protein for variety. I also cook pasta and frozen broccoli together a lot. Add some additional protein if you like but it isn’t mandatory.
For those who still wear suits and collared button downs, do you keep the shirt collar inside the suit collar or fold it over top of the suit collar, and is one way more in-style than the other way?
Definitely inside, flat on the outside extremely dated imo.
+1 to keeping the collar on the inside these days. I was taught to fold it over on the outside when I graduated…in 2002. Fwiw I also rarely see a stiff cotton button down shirt these days, soft blouses (silk/poly), shells, and short sleeved sweaters are all much more common
I loved the look of the collar folded over the suit collar! But agree that it’s not currently in style. I very rarely see women in button downs with suits, though.
Folded down and on the inside for serious business. On the outside only if I’m dressing satirically.
Chapter 13 here. I just wanted to check in and let those who are interested know how I am doing. I am officially halfway through my 5 year plan. I purchased an Etsy budgeting spreadsheet package recently and it has been a huge help! I input my numbers into the spreadsheet and if I am diligent and pay a little extra into the plan, I can get out in February 2027 instead of September 2027! In order to do this, I am reallocating a small portion of funds from retirement to the plan. I will still be contributing towards retirement and getting the company match, but I won’t be contributing as much for about 24 months. I feel good about this and I’m hoping I can stay diligent and get out of this thing early! The name of the Etsy shop is TheSpreadsheetSquad if anyone is curious. As far as my mental health, I’m doing okay. I recently received a small award at work worth $800 so I am going to put that into my savings account. I’ve struggled with dating over the last few years due to some worthiness issues…I’ve decided to take a break from dating for right now and continue to focus on myself. I’ve been slowly decorating my new apartment (all within budget, of course) and I generally feel okay about where I am in life. I just have to keep pushing on! Thanks for listening (well, reading).
Forgot to add that I set up my direct deposit to go into two different banks and that has been a game changer. I get most of my money in my main checking account at Bank 1 and get a small amount in a HYSA at Bank 2. This helps me separate my savings and only transfer to Bank 1 if I absolutely need to (car repair, etc).
Thank you for sharing your journey with us! I am SO glad to hear you’re staying the course, making what sound like smart decisions, and seeing real progress! I love to hear it.
I’m glad you are checking in. It sounds like things are on track. This version of adulting is very unglamorous, but I do hope you find contentment in not having debt hanging over your head and losing sleep over money problems. Sending you hugs!
This is really great to hear as I am going through a divorce and am extremely short on cash. Very inspiring thanks
If I just search “chapter 13” on this s*te will all your posts come up? Anyway we can collect these into a topic, Kat or even set up an “AMA” interview with you?
I am happy to do an interview or answer any questions here!
It’s a little tough love, but every time I read these updates I think “go make more money.” Whether that’s applying for a new job, going for a promotion or doing a side hustle like driving Uber or bartending on the weekend, do something to give yourself some breathing room. Cutting back is a lot harder than making more. And making more gets you out of this whole situation sooner.
I disagree – strongly – with her driving for Uber. It’s a crappy way to make money and it creates excessive wear and tear on one’s vehicle. She doesn’t need to have to spend $3k on new tires, brakes, and struts so that she could make $3,100 playing taxi. The liability is also huge.
Bartending would be a good idea.
I’m not OP but go make more money isn’t a realistically option for a lot of people. I have a specialized skillset which can be used for good or evil and the only way for me to make more money would be to destroy the planet. There’s lots of jobs where there truly isn’t a way to ethically make more money and side hustles are not allowed
Agreed! And also OP not too long ago got a new job with a big raise.
Babysit then, there are plenty of ways to make more money.
OP here. There is always someone on these posts who tells me to just “make more money.” I usually don’t respond, but I’ll bite this time. Simply put: I don’t want to. I like my (new job), which doesn’t allow for overtime. I spent 8 years waiting tables in college and on the side while working my first real job and I don’t want to do it again. It’s a LOT of hard work. Aside from that though, I work very hard at my new job, and I want to spend my extra, non-working hours cultivating the healthy life I’ve built since recovering from serious depression. I want to spend time with my family (I finally live in the same city as they do again), develop new friendships while reconnecting with old ones, exercise properly, reach my reading goals. There are just so many things I’d rather be doing than “making more money” and I know that I’m in a plan. The plan will commence according to, well, plan. Yes, I can get out of it earlier by paying extra (which I am doing with the retirement money reallocation), but my payments are so high that grinding away at a part-time job isn’t going to make much of the dent you think it will. My biggest tool is my primary income. My biggest virtue is my patience. I will get there.
That’s fair. You’re overcoming depression and it makes sense that maintaining a stable, healthy life is a priority. I can tell you’re putting in the long-term work to go for your goals.
That’s logical. Play the long game. Depression can be very expensive; tanking your mental health with long hours and sleepless nights could impact your primary job.
Just want to say that I think this makes good sense! Focusing on physical and mental health, family, and community will pay huge dividends, especially if the depression was part of what led to bankruptcy.
Glad to hear you are doing so well. Congratulations! I just wanted to throw out that if at some point you change your mind about additional income and you like animals, consider whether you would like to pet sit – a few hours in the evening or periodically a weekend. I often need someone to do that if I’m out for more than a few hours and people love my dog – have told me it makes their day/helps with their mental health. It can be a win-win-win – for me, the dog and the pet sitter.
Chapter 13, I love this reply so much. What a healthy perspective. I have such respect for you and have been pulling for you ever since you shared your story.
Life is long and you are close to the finish line with your repayment plans. The investments you’re making with your time right now are smart ones for the long haul. They’re how to build the life you want. Fuck making more money.
I think you are plain wrong there. Living within your means is a crucial skill. No income is high enough if you give in to unsustainable spending impulses.
What?! Chapter 13 *IS* living within her means!
Agreed, I wouldn’t drive for Uber, but I’d think outside of the box of your career. I know a few people with corporate jobs who worked retail at the mall (chocolate shop!) or took up babysitting/petsitting to pay for one-off things (saving up for a car, IVF treatments). Non-professional side jobs can add up to a good amount of money over half a year. If you don’t have an emergency fund, a side job would get you out of the hole faster. You are giving up time, but it can also let you try a different skillset or make new connections. I can see disability could limit options, but people pay so much money for reliable house sitters/pet sitters.
Cheering you on.
Same! Thank you for continuing to update your journey.
Thanks for the update. We’re all rooting for you!
Thank you for continuing to share your story. You are the perfect example of what bankruptcy is meant to be used for- to help people who are truly in a jam get a clean slate and start fresh. Congratulations and best of luck going forward.
This is such a good update!
Great update! Keep on putting one foot in front of the other and you will be on the other side before you know it!
Congrats! You are making great progress! I’m a fan of using about 10 percent of any bonus for something fun, and then tossing the rest into savings.
I know it’s still early on the west coast, but as long time but now former Californian who has lived through my share of fires; just wanted to wish luck to those of you in LA today. This is really terrifying. I hope you’re all okay.
What started this one? Maybe I have been watching more TV this week for winter storms but it seems to be more scary (like I have a kid looking at colleges and finds California too randomly scary due to hysterical news consumption but she may have a bit of a point also).
What starts fires is pretty much immaterial in weather like this. The tiniest spark is enough when you have 100 mph winds and it hasn’t rained since last winter. This is the future of the west (and an increasing number of other places) with climate change and it’s scary. Every place has its issues (hurricanes, floods, hail, tornadoes, etc.), so I don’t think California is uniquely scary, but this is a real problem to deal with.
+1. It is the winds that are making these particular fires so terrifying. Our house is in the mandatory evacuation zone for the Palisades fire, but seems to be still standing this morning. So much devastation, it is hard to comprehend.
The cause of the fires may not be known for a long time, but as someone else said, it doesn’t really matter in that the combination of high winds and a nighttime start made the fires impossible to control. All the fires were able to sweep from wooded / wilderness areas into populated neighborhoods without anything to stop them.
Recent large fires in Southern California have been started by: straight-up arson, out of control gender-reveal fireworks, cooking fire that got out of control, and lightning strikes. Oh, and poorly maintained power company lines. It’s been very very dry here, so things that would just be a “normal” brush fire turned into infernos because of the high winds.
Thinking of you, Senior Attorney!
Aw, thanks. We are on vacation in Mexico and woke up to my phone blowing up with texts about evacuations. Our house is okay but it’s terrifying!!
thinking of everyone. the devastation is so sad.
It is so frustrating to me that climate disaster after climate disaster happens and we (collective, giant, broad, societal “we”) continue to not do anything about it. I had hope that once it started costing private industry a bunch of money there’d be a push to do something, but we’ve long since passed that point.
People are selfish, they aren’t interested in change (or voting for change) that will impact their lifestyles. Everyone knows that overconsumption is bad but no one wants to give up their prime accounts. I really don’t think there is a solution to this because it will require a lifestyle shift.
It is frustrating to me that private industry has been so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on climate change even though it does cost them a bunch of money. I do what I can, but even if I never use another plastic bag in my life I’m not going to have the impact that a major corporation could have if they took action.
For a low-stakes question, does anyone have recommendations for good running music I can add to my playlist?
For example, I’ve got Girl Talk (All Day) and the Mortal Kombat soundtrack for energy boosts and R.E.M. for just good steady tempo, but would love newer recs, especially if it’s a whole set instead of single tracks. As you can probably tell from my current playlist, I am Old, and I do not have Pandora or Spotify so I’m not good at finding new music.
I don’t think we have similar tastes in music so I won’t recommend anything, but Spotify is actually really great at expanding horizons and showing you new music. I found a lot of my favorite albums from their recommended feature. Now I don’t think Spotify is the most ethical company but it’s gotten me back into music and going to concerts which is still a net plus for artists.
Fall out boy is what I run to. I use Spotify and they have a playlist which has similar. I skip the stuff I don’t like.
You can google xx bpm 80s/90s/rap/etc. running playlist. I do this on Spotify but I’m sure you could find similar things other places.
Five finger death punch got me through many pandemic runs. Also, Halestorm and The Chicks Gaslighter album. For less moody days, I just download the albums to movies.
I like to run to fast bluegrass music; Spotify has a Fast Grass playlist that is perfect for this.
I also recently discovered I love Cowboy Carter.
I’d just try Spotify! the Runna app has great playlists on their Spotify account.
I cannot believe there is another woman who runs to Girl Talk (still!). I run to Feed the Animals mostly, but parts of Night Ripper are also great.
Anyway, if you like mashups, the Big Bootie mixes might also work for you.
If you have Apple Music, I like to listen to their playlist ‘Ignite’ and ‘Electro Breaks’. They have good tempo, can go as gentle or aggressive as you need and it is a genre I don’t usually listen to (for pleasure), so I always hear something new.
Oh if you like Girl Talk have I got the playlist for you. Search “Big Bootie Mixes – Two Friends” on Spotify. There are 25 volumes, each track about an hour long, and they’re the only thing I listen to on runs anymore.
I’m reading about the Eaton fire and evacuations in Altadena/Pasadena and I’m worried about Senior Attorney. Are you ok, SA?
Yes, thanks. We are on vacation and just found out when we woke up this morning. Our house is south of the freeway so safe at least for now. My rental house is also okay although the tenants were evacuated. We are here in Mexico just glued to the TV. It’s horrifying. At least one of my friends has lost his house already. Thanks for thinking of me!
So glad to hear you’re ok
I recently received a ticket for failure to obey a stop sign. The officer told me that he saw me slow down and break, but he did not see me come to a complete stop. This is my first moving violation in 40 years of driving. I was pulled over once before for speeding, but that was 12 years ago and it didn’t result in a ticket.
What should I do next? Please guilty? Accept the charge but request leniency? Take a defensive driving course?
Just pay the ticket and move on. I wouldn’t do anything more.
If you’re in California the easiest thing is to plead no contest and go to traffic school. You’ll have to pay the fine (and traffic school fee) but it won’t be a point on your license.
And of course you can do it on line.
I would call the court clerk’s offfive and ask what your options are. It may be that there is an option where you can sign up for an online course, pay the court cost, and get it dismissed. Or perhaps go to court and tell the judge that you have a clean driving history and get it dismissed with a court cost. Just call and ask.
Online traffic school
OMG just pay it and move on with your life and stop at stop signs from now on.
Not the OP but you are not obligated to give an answer, especially one like this.
Yeah… some of the comments this morning are downright cruel.
Adding on: I feel like there is a not-nasty way of expressing a similar goal.
“In my experience, it’s not worth the time or the stress to ‘manage’ the ticket. Judges aren’t going to overturn the police officer’s ticket, unless you have a dash cam. If your state allows for traffic school, do that. Otherwise, it’s not worth the hassle and the stress; it will just be time and money to do what you could do right now: pay the fine.”
This is not a big deal. Your insurance may go up, but often will not for a first violation. If you want to take a 6 hour course, that would help with the points/insurance.
If you go to court, the judge will probably waive the points. You’ll still pay the fine. You’ll lose a few hours of your day.
If you’re worried about accumulating more points (sounds like you’re a safe driver otherwise so this is probably not a concern), you can do that, but otherwise it’s easier to just plead guilty and pay the fine.
In my State, you can either just pay the fine, or go to court. If you go to court, they might give you the option to defer the fine and if you don’t get another ticket for 90 days, it will be dismissed. Or the officer might not show up and it will be dismissed.
Thanks everyone for your responses. This may be a minor issue but it’s new to me. I didn’t want to take a course of action that I’d regret for the next 3 years. I think I’m just going to pay the fine.
Asked a question yesterday about managing a wardrobe with an ever-shifting body and I got good responses for the “what to wear” but I realize I mostly wanted some responses on “how to store/organize.” I want the lowest-effort ways to keep everything organized and avoid having a closet full of clothes that fit two months ago but don’t fit anymore. Also deciding when to get rid of stuff and when to store it for the next weight fluctuation.
this will not work for everyone but I have Rubbermaid bins for larger clothes and smaller ones and I literally put an index card inside that said the weight range they fit at. Only the clothes that currently fit are hanging in the closet and the others are on the high shelf. About once a year I pull everything unused down and donate the stuff that I look at and say “if this fit today, would I be happy to wear it” and the answer is no.
PLITK, my comment talked about Rubbermaid bins but was replaced by the OP’s own post.
(Tech Note from Kat – Just FYI, everyone Cat’s response had to do with Rubbermaid bins but I’m keeping up the comment weirdness so my tech team can look into it, it’s helpful for them to have a live example. This was Cat’s proper comment:
this will not work for everyone but I have Rubbermaid bins for larger clothes and smaller ones and I literally put an index card inside that said the weight range they fit at. Only the clothes that currently fit are hanging in the closet and the others are on the high shelf. About once a year I pull everything unused down and donate the stuff that I look at and say “if this fit today, would I be happy to wear it” and the answer is no.
Thank you for your patience while we figure out what the heck is going on with comments and caching.)
IME, the old stuff never fits again. Get rid of it. If it does technically fit, it will be out of date by the time it does. Free yourself from old things that don’t serve you, dress the body you have today – you’ll have it longer than you think – and shop again in the future when you need to.
I’m assuming this advice does not apply to those in the throes of family expansion, who are planning babies 2-3 years apart, I’m putting this comment out so folks can chime in if I’m incorrect.
Yes, it does apply. Also you’re likely to come out of “family expansion” with a different body shape.
In 2-3 years, styles will certainly be different.
Question: are you buying enough clothes that you don’t have stuff from 2-3 years ago? I’ve got dresses that are a decade old that I still wear to work. (With interludes when it doesn’t fit, which is the root of my problem here.)
I get that it’s a fashion blog and we like nice clothes here, but I’ve always tried to go for the sports of things that don’t go out of style or that I enjoy enough that I’ll wear whether they’re in style or not.
Well, there’s nothing that truly never goes out of style. Silhouettes change, proportions change, etc. Obviously that doesn’t mean you have to scrap your entire wardrobe every season, but yeah, listen to what everybody is telling you.
By the time I was back to pre-baby weight (about 2.5 years postpartum), things were kind of out of date.
This might be different for you, wherein what fits in the year or two after Baby #1 would also fit shortly after Baby #2.
In that case, buy what fits your body now. It helped me to understand that clothes that I only for for two years were part of the cost of having a child.
I totally disagree. My size fluctuates due to a chronic illness and medication and I absolutely go back and forth between my bigger and smaller clothese. I’m short and busty but have no hips so it’s really hard to find clothes that fit me well, and my style is classic and sporty, not trendy stuff that goes out of style every year. You don’t want to only wear old clothes, especially for work, but there are plenty of things worth holding on to. I just keep the stuff that doesn’t fit in rubbermaid bins.
I’m currently pregnant after a multi-year IVF battle that caused massive weight gain due to the hormones but also I was barred from exercise other than walking. I’m so happy to be pregnant so I have more exercise options again! And I will be happy to have the baby so I can get back to my normal workouts! I was never skinny, I’m not trying to get back to clubbing attire, but my suits and blazers and dresses and such? Yes I absolutely hope to be able to wear a lot of my pre-IVF classics again.
I store clothes that currently don’t fit in my office, which has a dresser and a closet. One drawer is for jeans, divided into too big and too small. Closet is for suits, dresses, and blouses. I have a couple of bras in the wrong size, those are just with my regular bras because they don’t take up much space.
I only keep things that I a) love, b) are very useful, c) hard to find, and/or d) require tailoring (and a replacement would require tailoring too). That means I mostly keep out of size evening wear, suits, jeans, and jackets.
I do this, too. And I don’t keep things that are way too small, but if it’s just a size, I keep, but only things I would for sure wear if they fit comfortably.
I would store all of the stuff that doesn’t fit in a box under your bed. Then get rid of it 2-3 years after your last child if it still doesn’t fit, or sooner depending on how much you like the items. Fwiw, I eventually fit into my pre-baby stuff but like years later.
I’m one year postpartum and fit all my pre baby clothes, but we’re trying for the next this year and every pregnancy is different so who knows where we’ll land. I just don’t have the money or enjoy shopping enough to be buying more than a couple outfits a year.
I FIFO my clothing. Clean hanging clothes go at the far end of the rod, and clean folded clothes go on the bottom of the stack.
If the near end of the rod or the top of the stack starts to bother me because it never changes, I give myself permission to get rid of those items.
And since my closet space is limited, I don’t keep aspirational items around because I just don’t have room for them. I make room for things I wear now and purge the things I don’t. There will always be more clothes out there in the future, I don’t need to hoard old ones just in case.
I’m another fan of the underbed Rubbermaid bins. I have two, with a note in each re what size they are, so I don’t root around in the wrong bin when my size shifts.
Inside.
Anyone else struggle with being single and feeling like you’re never anyone’s top priority?
To be clear, I have AMAZING friends. They really do make time for me. The problem is that the time they make is usually during the week for a quick lunch, pre-work walk, or coworking session. The weekends are completely devoted to family stuff. I never get invited to anything on the weekend anymore. I spend weekdays trying to squeeze in friend dates around my already busy work schedule. Then the weekends come and they’re totally empty!
This feels partly like it’s age-related (40s) and partly residual pandemic stuff (I still feel like socializing has not gotten back to where it used to be since all of our daily rhythms are so off with WFH). I’m just not sure what to do about it.
Date and find a partner. The harsh reality is you’ll never be someone’s first priority at this stage. It sucks, it’s hard, but that’s the solution.
Easier said than done. Yikes.
That wasn’t a yikes. Of course it’s easier said than done but there’s not a life hack to this.
I’m sure that hadn’t occurred to her /s
What a spectacularly unhelpful response.
Ohhhh thanks none of us single ladies have ever tried that!
Have you tried online dating? Everyone says that’s it’s so easy to meet a great guy in the apps!
Right? My cousin met her husband on E-harmony.
But anon, Cousin Renee had a great profile picture and was super cheerful in her profile description. Have you considered a more flattering shot? You should also just give these guys a chance.
Is the family stuff socializing with their extended family, or kid-related stuff? Could you join them for some family stuff, like go watch their kids soccer game?
Yeah, I have a couple of little kids and I think I’d be receptive to a kid-free friend proposing something like this. Totally fair if it’s not interesting to you, but if it is, consider floating whether you could join for a soccer game, swim meet, whatever. Maybe coffee before or after while kid is at a playground?
+1, I’d love to have a friend join me to chat while we watch a kid soccer game. I wouldn’t want to invite a friend who hadn’t previously signaled interest because it’s not that interesting for most people.
I know exactly where you are coming from. Of all my friends, the two most eager to go do things on the weekend are the two who also do not have children. At this stage of life, these are the friends I see the most. I have fond hopes of regaining connectivity with the others once their children are older.
Is there some activity or hobby group you could involve yourself in and specifically look for new friends who are in your same demographic? Perhaps classes or groups that meet on the weekend, thus automatically narrowing the field down to people who are available on the weekend.
Yes, this! And don’t shy away from befriending people in different age groups. I ride bikes with women in their 60s and it’s great!
+1
I strongly encourage you to look for friends in the older age group and the younger age group. I also use my hobbies/interests/community organizations/volunteering to fill the weekends easily. You need to widen your friend group now. And then when your other friends with kids have more time in 5-10 years you may see them more.
Yes – one of the twins of my mother’s generation. The other is close to my age. It’s perfect!
Two, not twins. Ugh. I am growing to hate autocorrect.
As a single person , I suggest seeking more single friends. Family life only gets more complicated when kids have matches, performances, etc.
My area has an online hiking group for single women, plus there are so many meet ups, volunteering, etc.
This is life in your 40s, to some extent. My friend time is definitely in the margins of my life, not because friendship isn’t important to me or because I’m opposed to socializing, but because the rest of my time is spoken for.
Yes, but also I am my top priority. So I invite people to do things on weekends, I host etc. And I use my time the ways I want- I have a fun time consuming hobby, I travel, I visit museums, I read etc. it is hard, but I try and remember that I can only control myself.
Do you have other single friends? Do you participate in community or hobbies in some way? My city has a lot of community building hobby groups like DnD, stitch n b*tch, book clubs, recreational sports teams, etc. These groups tend to have stable membership and people who are committed to showing up.
My best friend is in your situation and I hate it for her – she invites me to hang out more than I am able to and I feel terrible constantly declining her. (I also kind of wish she’d ask me less, but that’s a me problem.) The problem for me is that I get like 5 hours max of “me time” per weekend, and that has to be split amongst all the self-care things I like to do, including working out, nails/hair/massage/whatever, and seeing friends, and must be scheduled around everything else we have going on. I also often have to work on the weekend which cuts into my family time. Not complaining – just trying to set the scene.
A suggestion that might help for you – if you have a regular workout or activity you can invite your friend(s) to, they are more likely to be able to do it because it’ll be regularly scheduled and part of their “me time”. If we had a standing Sat morning yoga class, I could probably make it to that pretty regularly (alas, we do not). I also sometimes invite my friend to meet me at one of my kids games/practices. We can sit in the bleachers and catch up. It’s probably not her favorite, but at least I get to see her.
You wish she’d ask less? Wow that’s mean.
Yeah, oof.
As a permanently single person, I have done a combination of the things that folks listed above. You have to signal both flexibility and willingness to do kid stuff to spend time with friends in the throes of rearing (small) kids.
Also, intentionally seeking out and strengthening relationships with childfree folks has been great. Finally, having some friends a few years older (so in their early-mid 50s) means that they either are definitely childfree or their kids may well be adults.
It’s really painful, when I let myself focus on it. Especially when I realize that my last relationship also left me feeling like I wasn’t his priority! Which is making me do more inner work on why I keep choosing men who force me to recreate deepest fears and perpetuate this belief about myself.
All of this is to say, I’ve realized only I am make myself a priority and build my life accordingly.
My friends with kids often tell me they appreciate if I join them for family stuff – be it kids game or a hike or a trip – as it helps to break the routine for them. Kids can tell the stories their parents are fed up with already to someone ‘new’, the husband can vent his work drama to someone else than his wife, …
I just let friends know I am open to going to the Zoo or join them to chill on their terrace while they watch kids playing so that they don’t feel we can only meet to do ‘exciting’ stuff.
Also agree that it helps to have friends from different age groups.
The only time you’re anyone’s top priority is when you are a child or when you are first dating/married.
What goes on in your relationships? My spouse and I are still each other’s priority decades in.
You can also find some new friends who are single or don’t have kids. I’m in my late 30s and about half of my friends are single. We are all super busy but make time to get together on weekends or after work. You don’t need an SO to be social. I think it’s just friends with kids have no time.
I’ve chosen to be single so the feeling isn’t something I personally struggle with. However, I will say as someone single in my 40s I just had to change my friend groups. Like someone else suggested, that means finding hobbies with people I see about once a month. So I typically have 2-3 weekend things a month. And then I have other friends I get dinner or lunch with monthly. Or maybe once a quarter. Even friends with no kids or partners don’t have lots of time during the week. I would invest in social organizations if you really want a busy schedule. People with kids are not really different from people who sit on lots of community boards. They’re all just time commitments.
Are we still wearing tights to work out? These feel dated to me and also unflattering after a bit more than a year off. Are there slim-legged workout pants (functional.fitness workout, so generally lifting and bodyweight exercises with some rowing/biking/running) that don’t have jogger cuffs or boot legs at the bottom? I’d love a specific recommendation if these exist and they withstand the movements and stay up.
I still wear leggings to work out, but if you’re looking for looser, non-jogger pants, take a look at slightlybuddha.com. You could also try track pants or non-cuffed sweatpants.
What?! I call this question out as nonsense.
*We* should be wearing whatever is comfortable for movement. Workout gear is too expensive to start giving other women a complex about “dated” workout wear.
Amen.
Agree!
I generally prefer shorts because I run hot but leggings to work out in aren’t dated and I wear them for Pilates all the time.
I’ve been wearing the same 3 pairs of Athleta leggings for the past ten years so I guess my recommendation would be Athleta because they hold up so well.
I wish I could wear shorts, but it’s not a good option for me for a bunch of reasons, including but definitely not limited to current weather.
Yes, this. I like a cute workout outfit, but functionality comes first.
Seriously, just no with the “dated” nonsense.
Wear whatever you feel good in! Nobody else cares what your workout clothes are.
That is what I was asking for. I’m not asking if I can wear old sweatpants from Hanes to workout in and not get snubbed at Planet Fitness. I’m looking for something that will stay up during squats and 275# deadlifts and not get stuck in an erg or assault bike but that is a looser fit without bottom cuffs. I’m not judging anyone else and I’m shopping to replace used up gear.
It’s literally not what your question was, but check out Tyr, they have good reviews and they have sweatpants.
I don’t think leggings are “dated” for working out – I still see them all the time, and what you wear should be functional for your workout. They are possibly dated for general athleisure (doesn’t stop me from wearing them but I am old-ish).
That said, I’m all for getting cute workout clothes if you want them (#motivation).
Yes, absolutely. I don’t need extra fabric getting caught on anything. Literally every woman in my OTF gym is wearing tights.
I pretty much exclusively see people at the gym in leggings and joggers. If you want that looser fit, joggers are probably what you want. I like leggings better myself, so I don’t have brand recommendations.
As a rower, you literally must wear leggings or spandex shorts if you’re rowing. Other pants get caught in the tracks.
As a biker, same because the bike gears.
As a trail runner, same because branches and rocks and other tripping hazards.
I suppose I could wear other options for lifting or soccer, but I don’t need multiple workout wardrobes
I work at very much a fashion, disposal income type of gym. Leggings are still in, but mostly as part of a matching set (e.g., top in the same fabric). If I was guessing, the “dated” feeling is probably coming from your top since the trend is very much a crop top or hint of midriff, rather than a tank top.
And on the flip side, I work out at one of the bougiest gyms in town and that is the one place where the most fashionable, expensively-dressed IRL people look the most normal and down to earth. Mismatched tops and bottoms, with a rather large display of worn out tees representing the local public high school teams, grubby freebie shirts with fundraising logos from an event 8 years ago, leggings or dazzle shorts, etc.
Oh, yeah. That’s not happening (see, more than a year off and even just tights are unflattering). And my gym is a mix of high earners and people who can’t afford a gym membership. I’m not trying for a fashion show, but it is my neighbors and friends who I see at the gym and on my walk through the business district of my ‘hood to and from, plus I want to feel good when I’m there, so I do care a little what I look like.
Yes, still wearing tights, but I am primarily a runner who does some yoga, some pilates, some lifting. But tights are the most practical option.
Frankly, I am having a hard time imagining bottoms that aren’t tights, aren’t bootlegs, and don’t have jogger cuffs. I am not sure I have seen athletic full-length pants that meet those restrictions.
I wear the same black leggings to work out and wfh in every day. When they wear out, I’ll replace them.
How often do you replace your everyday bras? I know that the industry says 6-12 months, which is crazy to me. I suppose mine have seen better days but it is seriously the least fun way to spend money!
Every 3-4 years. I’m a 34G and I buy cut and sewn bras, not molded ones. I try to buy 1-2 every year and rotate them regularly. I replace when they don’t feel comfortable or are too stretched out. Typically I realize that I’m avoiding a bra and that generally means it is time for it to go.
Similar size and similar on the avoidance. Worn out bras get uncomfortable!
When the underwires poke out the ends or otherwise snap, which amounts to every couple of years.
Hahaha, 6 months is laughable! I probably replace mine every decade or so – once they wear out enough that I can’t reasonably mend them any longer.
The current batch was purchased pre-pandemic and is still going strong. I have 8 and rotate them. Every 6 weeks or so I handwash them and air dry. Machine washing and tumble drying kills the underwires and elastic.
Every 3-5 years. Sports bras get replaced more frequently, but they get soaked in sweat, washed on the “active wear” cycle, and deal with more stress.
Continuing that thought:
I buy about two bras per year, on the average, and keep a steady rotation.
That helps me to really understand when a bra is just done. There comes a point when there is a very noticeable difference between my well-worn lingerie and the newer stuff (and not just because the latter is fresh out of the box). That’s when it’s time to toss the old ones.
Depending on quality and frequency of wear, that’s about every three to five years.
It depends on how often you wear them. I replace when they’re broken or start feeling uncomfortable – which is usually because they’re no longer doing the job. I know I have 3 year old bras in my drawer, but I’m not wearing them daily.
I wash in one of those rigid bra laundry bags (it looks like R2D2) on the delicate cycle and hang dry.
Of course the industry wants us to buy more bras every six months. However, if you have one that fits and you take care of it, it should last five years. Hand wash or put in a lingerie bag in the machine. Line dry. I wash mine while I’m in the shower.
You wash yours in hot water?
When the underwires start stabbing me, the elastic is stretched out, or the foam padding gets dimpled.
This may be old news to some but I just learned the outcome of the trial of the Kazakh minister Bishimbayev for the horrifying murder of his wife. I’m not sure if anyone else followed this case but sharing here.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/13/guilty-verdict-high-profile-kazakhstan-domestic-violence-and-murder-case
I was scared to click on the article, but what a pleasant surprise.
May repost later – I’m looking for a beautiful robe to throw on in the house. Ideally has a blue/green color scheme and beautiful print that could be abstract flowers, birds, stained glass windows, Van Gogh paintings, etc. Would like it to be cotton or satin or silk and on the longer side. I’m an XXL at the moment. Soma has a pretty one that’s out of out of stock, and Rifle Paper’s peacock robe is my fallback.
Does this unicorn exist? Any unusual stores or museum shops I might try?
Look at Kim + Ono – it’s the rebrand of one of the stores in Chinatown SF.
Oooo these are beautiful!
Natori often has pretty patterns
+1, and Natori is really well made.
These are great https://us.fableengland.com/collections/kimonos
Garnet Hill Kimono robe, though they’re only knee length so may not be the length you’re looking for.
Oh, and they rotate out the patterns about every 6 months, so if you don’t like the ones they have now, they’ll change it up at some point.
This sounds very glamourous to me, so I’m just here to say go you!
Not quite the size range needed by the OP, but as a PSA in case someone else is looking: I buy a new yukata robe every 4-5 years from the Smithsonian Store. Beautiful prints, high quality, 100% cotton.
Late to the game but Printfresh may work for you with some of the patterns, incl. their silky options. I have a cotton one and I love love love it.
Sundance has a pretty one.