Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Modern Crewneck Cardigan
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
If I were building a business casual wardrobe from scratch right now, I think I’d be starting at Loft. Their Spring Sale is in full swing, and they have a whole bunch of classic pieces that will be great building blocks for a full wardrobe.
This cardigan, for example, is under $30, comes in six colors, and while it’s probably not going to be the most exciting item in your wardrobe, that also means that you can wear it once a week and no one is going to notice.
I like this “sugar plum” hue for a pop of color, but it also comes in black and navy if you want something a little less memorable.
The sweater is $29.97, marked down from $49.95, and comes in sizes XXS-XXL.
Some of our favorite classic cardigans for the office as of 2025 include those below. Check Talbots and J.Crew Factory if you're looking for plus sizes, and Quince if you're on a budget. Veronica Beard and Brooks Brothers both keep a bunch of options in stock. Two other reader favorites: Anthropologie and Sézane.
Sales of note for 3/15/25:
- Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
- Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
- Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – Extra 30% off women's styles + spring break styles on sale
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off 3 styles + 50% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off 1 item + 30% off everything else (includes markdowns, already 25% off)
Per the late question yesterday about the cost of an elder care social worker, it’s $130/hour in the Denver area. Best money we’ve ever spent to make absolute sure she’s safe, happy, and has another set of eyes on her that are NOT employed by the assisted living community. Even though we don’t have quality or safety concerns there, it feels like an essential step.
Same. I did this when my OOS parent was abruptly discharged from a hospital to an IMO inappropriate placement and until I could move him to my city. My eyes and ears. Invaluable to have someone who answers just to you.
Thank you for sharing! I was the one asking. We looked into it, but it wasn’t practical in the end as we needed someone of that skill set almost daily.
Is the outfit on the model an outfit you’d wear? I’ve said here many times that I struggle with fashion and clothing to see how trends move and what looks good v so 10 years ago. I don’t think this looks 10 years ago. I think this looks like a boring outfit my mom would have worn 30 years ago, and I cannot imagine people who attempt to look good or great would wear this ever, including when my mom wore it 30 years ago. What am I missing?
I don’t think I’m thin enough for this outfit anymore. There would be lumps.
I’m not extremely fashionable and would not wear this, especially not as styled. I haven’t worn that type of cardigan since 2018 at least.
It is back in style precisely because it’s from 30 years ago and because it’s unflattering. Whatever the most unflattering styles were of the ’90s, they’re back and all over The Youth because that’s the way things work.
More like 40 years ago. I had that in high school.
I remember this blog pushing twinset sweater outfits in like 2012 and I’ve never seen them on anyone under 75, so…
that is super region dependent. From around 2004 to 2010 or so, twinsets (like the Jackie from JCrew) were a work staple in my Philly offices. Then we moved to using the sweaters over silky shells.
Yes. I am in the southeast and I wear button front cardigans and bring them everywhere all year round. Consulting middle management. I prefer these over the waterfall style. I would never tuck it in, though I do wear a belt. I prefer not to wear scalloped stuff. I don’t wear bright pink but if this were blue or green shades I would wear
Isn’t this just “sweater + jeans” and isn’t that always “in”?
It’s neither “in” nor “out”, making it a decent choice for the office.
The styling is a hard nope for me as I do not see the point of tucking in a cardigan.
I do like that it is 100% cotton, and like this and the tomato color, yet cannot bring myself to really want either.
Your mom might have worn a cardigan in this cut with jeans 30 years ago, but these actual jeans are very much Today. As for who would wear this now, like it’s being shown, probably no one? It’s a cardigan styled for a catalog shoot in a way that’s not particularly cohesive to make a good outfit. If you click through to the site, and look at the other colors, you’ll see lots of other outfits with the cardigan. Does one of them speak to you as something that you really like and would wear? That’s what I often look for when I’m trying to figure out style choices: what speaks to me and makes me say “I want to look like THAT.” Then I break down what the items are, and what proportions the items have and find out what draws me — is it the color combo? The mood? The lines of the garments? Something else?
If you look at that whole set of outfits and say “I would never wear this, in any way” than that tells you something about the styles you DO like (they might not be the classic, conservative clothing it seems your mom might have been drawn to, that you found boring), which is a good step toward building your eye and your personal style.
Agree with this whole take.
Also, I noticed that the cardigan was worn as a shirt and tucked in for several of the outfits shown for the different colors. That suggests to me that the material is probably pretty thin. I would maybe wear a cardigan like this, but with a wide-leg trouser instead of those jeans. But I’d need to feel the weight of the fabric first.
No. This is the type of thing that looks very good on a certain body type, and that is not mine. Also, tucking a cardigan is weird.
Nope. This is an example of why I never shop at Loft. The garment is never quite right to hit the youthful version of the trend, nor a well-executed adaptation for adultier adults.
“The garment is never quite right to hit the youthful version of the trend, nor a well-executed adaptation for adultier adults.”
I’m going to remember this – such a great framework for understanding why a piece of clothing is “off.”
You have just articulated one of the many reasons I no longer shop at the big mall stores.
Yeah, exactly! It’s so close to something like the Reformation Clara cardigan, which is extremely popular, but there’s just something slightly off about the cut and certainly the tucking in.
Are you imagining it properly with straight cut unflattering jeans and white gym shoes? Now take it off your 40+ mom and put it on a waif thin beautiful 20 something. See? So stylish.
This is an excellent summary of fashion in 2025. I’m leaning heavily on my standby pieces right now because I hate almost everything.
Exactly!
Absolutely not. Maybe a high schooler. Never in the work setting or in casual/weekend. Maybe each piece separately.
My high schooler would never ever wear that.
I’m 40 now. Not crazy fashionable I suppose – gravitating toward classic shapes vs cropped flares (shudder). With that context, my reaction to this is: my mom wore this in the 90s. She was mid 30s and not fashionable. So… no.
Cardigans like this are gape-city for me unless I wear them open or sew the whole placket shut.
Same, and I’m not even that busty.
This outfit is not current or attractive in any age bracket.
This version of it – no. But make this a nice gray and cashmere and possibly. I can see it working on someone who otherwise looks modern. But in this color, good jeans or not, you may as well stick a giant bedazzled headband on top because it looks frozen in a non fashionable past.
It looks very discount rack / JCP / get what you pay for to me and I wonder how much of that is the off trend color. Even if someone wanted to wear pink as a personal style statement, it doesn’t hit that note either.
My first thought was it looks like something I would put in the donate pile without a second thought during a closet purge.
I actually had a cardigan very similar to this, in that color. I donated it several years ago.
Brits: where does Coast fall compared to American brands? (And is it a store or a line? I can’t tell.) I’ve been looking for an occasion dress (I love that phrase! we don’t use it in American English) and there are so many good British brands! Coast doesn’t ship to the US, but ebay sellers do ;) Are there other UK brands I should explore? I’ve found Monsoon.
It’s similar to Ann Taylor, but Coast is for special occasions like weddings or nights out. Used to be good quality, but not so much any more.
Agree with this. Before 2016/17 it was good quality and lasted. After that it was terrible and nothing fit right.
I’d pop around the John Lewis website to see all the brands together.
What to pack for a 4 day company annual meeting in Vegas next week? Staying at same hotel as the meeting. I don’t think I’ve ever been there this time of year. And never for a work trip. Thanks.
SFA Vegas?
I’m doing pants + blouse + lady jackets and flats.
It’s great in Vegas this time of year! The extreme heat of the summer hasn’t started yet. However, given how aggressive air conditioning can be in some of these conference hotels, I would think layers and bring cardigans and blazers – you probably won’t need them outside, but inside may be a different story. It’s going to be close to 80 degrees there next week so you may want to bring lighter clothes if you’re going to walk down the Strip or be outside for other activities – you definitely won’t need a heavy coat.
Was just there for a conference. I always think what will the men wear, and then match in formality. In my case it was suits with no ties, so I matched with my normal business attire. Some women changed at night for parties and things but many/most did not – those that got all “Vegas” in attire stood out, and imho not in a good way.
Heavier lotion/hair products to combat the dry air, and sunscreen for the brutal sun.
*Extremely* comfortable shoes, even if you’re only in one hotel/casino for the whole event. I know you know this but the amount of walking can’t be over-estimated! I’d also pack a foot emergency kit like bandaids, lidocaine spray, foot petals, etc.
I’ve been to Vegas in Feb and it can get surprisingly chilly, so I’d bring some light layers like a denim jacket, a cotton quilted jacket, maybe some long sleeved blouses, full length pants and socks, things like that.
I’d go for simple, minimal, yet comfortable business casual just this side of formal things (meaning more formal than less)–I’ve been to a couple conferences and I’ve been irritated to feel under-dressed when men are in basically full suits and I feel like if I were wearing a suit it would look fussy and overdone.
WTF Hamas having a pep rally with the coffins of hostages and then returning an unidentified body?
They are barbaric and evil. It is nauseating.
I can’t. It’s unfathomable that the innocent babies were brutally murdered and their mother’s body not returned. The world is silent.
Yes so many of the people so focused on Elon’s salute are now silent
Anon @ 10:32 – I assume you are a supporter of Israel and/or jewish and/or an ally to Jewish people. So why would you even bring Elon into this? Both things are horrific. It’s mind-boggling that you would try to advance your pro Israeli view by making a condescending and unnecessary comment about people who were upset about a Nazi salute from one of the highest members of the US government.
The world is not “silent.” This was the subject of discussion across multiple media platforms of all stripes yesterday. If you personally didn’t see it, it is because you weren’t watching. But if you think the value of this to individuals posting on social media, 500 days into a conflict when we’ve all been seeing horrific images and having Hamas demonized every day since the start, is the same as the shock of seeing the world’s richest man make a Nazi salute on a stage, you don’t understand much about people or social media. This trope of “no one is paying appropriate attention” is nonsense.
The rally was gross. People all over are saying it was gross. It is one of many disgusting acts these two barbaric, warring tribes have committed. But I will push back on using this spectacle as grounds to dehumanize Palestinians. There were Israelis protesting the arrest of soldiers who sodomized to death a non-Hamas prisoner because they felt that conflict was to be applauded, and an actual debate in the Knesset on the same subject. There were parties outside the gates of Gaza at which Israelis destroyed humanitarian aid and celebrated their acts with music and dancing. There are terrible people on both sides. Those people also do not reflect the entirety of humanity on either side of those gates. If you are asking that the world elevate this one scene to caricature all of Palestine and Garner support for Israel in this campaign, there are equally damaging caricatures to be had on the other side.
You are right. There are terrible actors on both sides. But i don’t recall Israelis hosting a pep rally (while claiming their people need food) or bringing babies in baby carriers to watch such a spectacle. Do I think Hamas is representative of all Palestinians, absolutely not. Just like I don’t think the Israeli government is representative of all Israelis. But the Bibas children are the definition of pure innocence and i do think people should be equally outraged
That travelling Nova Festival exhibit is kinda gross and manipulative in its own way.
Tears for the Bibas children are certainly among those I have expended for the thousands of babies who have been killed in Gaza, as well as the two killed in Israel.
I have MANY issues with the Israeli government, but what do you think the U.S. would’ve done in response to something like what Hamas did?
The U.S. is doing this.
And as a result, unfortunately, I think we may just find out what the U.S. would do if it happened on our soil.
I will say that, until 2025, I would have expected the U.S. to engage in a lot less lying and a lot more compliance with international law. (But less/more, not none/always).
“having Hamas demonized every day since the start”
rewind like 15 years hon that’s when they became demons
they ARE demons
I’ll agree that Palestininans are not the same as Hamas, but arguing that there is merit in Hamas is laughable.
My point was just that this is one more of many terrible images people have seen for 500 days. Elon’s salute was new.
Yes the level of evil is astonishing
It’s incredibly nauseating. Those poor babies.
What’s especially nauseating to imagine is what torture Hamas must have committed that makes it unwilling to release the body. What evidence does it show?
Hamas is evil but I don’t think it’s necessarily about torture. I think they just want to prolong the suffering by not releasing the real bodies.
If the IDF statement that they all died before December 2023 is accurate, it is possible they don’t have or know where her body is/it got mixed up. A lot of chaos in that time. They also may be intentionally withholding it. Hard to know.
I hadn’t yet heard it described as a pep rally but that is spot on. It’s beyond disgusting. I honestly cannot handle thinking about if those kids last moments was without their mother. They must have been beyond petrified.
(bc I’m sure someone will say something, this does not mean I don’t care about Palestinian children as well who I’m sure have also had many terrifying moments in the past year, nor does it mean I agree with all of the actions of the Israeli government, but if you can’t recognize how barbaric yesterday’s “pep rally” was, then you are part of the problem)
F*ck Hamas and every apologist in the West. Pure evil.
Tan / cognac loafers that will accommodate a small bunion but will be narrow enough in the heel that I won’t walk out of them? Not Birdies (I walk out of them).
The Sperry brand works well for my narrow heels.
Sam Edelman are wider in the toe box than many loafers but narrower than Birdies.
I’ve had good luck with Naturalizers.
Buy a wooden shoe stretcher that can stretch a leather shoe you love to your foot. You can find them with inserts to stretch for a bunion, specifically. The shoe stretcher will last forever, and you can buy brands you find attractive and then mould them to your feet.
Also: Margaux offers their loafers in wide, which fit me great without the shoe stretcher.
Any other federal-adjacent workers who aren’t doing well right now? My role depends on my institution continuing to receive federal funds to conduct our work on behalf of the government. I’m sitting at my desk, nearly in tears, and the day has just started. Just waiting for another shoe to drop. And I know this is how the b#stards want us to feel so we’ll quit. It just might work, because I’m already cracking.
Yep, federal contractor here just waiting for the ax to fall. It sucks. And it doesn’t help that a higher-up in the admin doesn’t like my company since we failed to deliver a magical solution to her pet issue of interest that was a) impossible and b) nowhere in the scope of work. Imagine being contracted to draft new educational materials for colorectal cancer screening and instead being yelled at to find the cure for cancer, then later terminated for not succeeding. This person is now in a high position within the Trump admin. If any companies survive, it probably won’t be mine.
Yep, it’s a weird limbo. I still have a job. Is this cup going to pass us, or have they just not gotten around to cutting our work yet? It feels absolutely odd to develop strategies, work on proposals for future work. I do a lot of compartmentalizing at the moment. I’m also on a work visa trying to obtain a green card so I’m constantly wondering if I’m stupid to not job search like crazy back in Europe. But I love my job and living here.
I’m a fed – we had our first round of cuts this week and were told there would be more (but leadership doesn’t know when or who or how many). My mental health is down the tubes. I keep going back and forth on whether I should leave before I’m fired so that I have a snowball’s chance in h3ll to find a new job or if I should stick it out, hold the line, keep upholding the oath I took and the commitment I made to serve people who need it and go down with the ship.
I know regardless of how I leave, I will need to pivot industries completely. Expecting there to no longer be work done in my industry (as so much non-federal work in my field is federally funded – state and local government agencies, contractors, semi-private and private sector positions – all exist because of federal money and/or federal requirements).
I am trying to figure out where I want to / where I can pivot. I kind of hope I get something in the works and then get fired – best of all worlds honestly.
I’m definitely leaving this industry. There would be other things I could focus on that are less influenced by the feds, but I was already struggling with burnout and this just seems to be a sign that I need to try something else entirely. Unfortunately, I’m in a small market and the job pickings are slim. Have honestly thought about tapping into my emergency fun and quitting without anything else lined up. Probably foolish, but I am so not in the head space for job searching.
I’m a fed. My boss called me to see if I still had a job because he was in the dark and our probationary guy had to call him to let him know he’dbeen fired. I do have my job for now, but dang, how messed up is that???
That’s seriously messed up. What ghouls.
I’m really struggling with when to jump ship. I don’t want to do it yet, but I also don’t want to be jobless…
My current thought is if I can find something that I want to do with decent pay and benefits, I’ll jump ship immediately even if it’s not exactly what I want. If I find something that I kind of want to do that pays well, I’ll jump ship. But, I’m not yet ready to jump ship to a job that feels like settling.
Yep- cancer research fed contractor wondering how the heck I’m supposed to do work when all grant money is now subject to the whims of the brain worm eaten secretary.
Must we have these posts every day.
You have the option of scrolling on by if you don’t care to read about what your fellow citizens are experiencing right now.
I’m so sorry the plight of hundreds of thousands of needlessly unemployed Americans is so upsetting for you to scroll by, i’ll pray for you during what is surely a difficult time for you <3
This is an unprecedented and illegal job cut by the country’s largest employer. And, it will tank several other industries and employers. It’s a BFD, there are a lot of questions and uncertainty. Scroll past if you don’t care about your fellow Americans but no need to complain
Yes. Count your blessings if it doesn’t apply to you.
Yes, thanks for asking!
Not personally affected and would like to continue seeing these posts as often as people feel the need to post them. Thinking of you all.
Question for the gang: how do you think this is going to end? Trump, Elon, everything. 5 years? 10 years? 30? 100? I’m still disoriented from how quickly things went south. It feels like there will be vast repercussions beyond making ‘Murica great again.
I wonder how the midterms will go, but congress just seems imp0tent right now and the courts are bending the knee. I really don’t know how or when this ends but I hope not at a resort in the western Mediterranean south of Tel Aviv.
Congress, and especially the Democrats, has never been so impotent in my lifetime.
Respectfully, what are the Democrats in Congress supposed to do? The Republicans have control of the House and the Senate. This was the worst-case scenario that so many people were trying to prevent with advocacy and canvassing during the November election. People like AOC are out there trying to rally protestors and get people organized, but beyond that – their technical mechanisms to prevent what’s happening are limited. Trump and Musk aren’t even following court directives. So what are the Democrats supposed to do, exactly?
I really hope that the people who are now shocked and dismayed about what’s happening voted, and voted for Harris, because Trump and his crew of miscreants are doing exactly what they said they would do. They literally had the playbook – Project 2025 – out on the Internet for anyone to read (and I can tell, now, that most people didn’t even bother to go look it up). Harris talked about it repeatedly at her rallies.
Whether you loved Harris or didn’t like her, electing her would have prevented what’s happening now. If people actually believed Trump when he said he didn’t know what Project 2025 was and he wasn’t going to implement it – well, I have to question why they allowed themselves to be hoodwinked by a known and accomplished liar? He lies about everything. Of course he lied about that. It’s what he does.
The time for consternation, alarm and action was prior to November 5. Now it’s too late. I would recommend shoring up your finances against the coming deep recession/depression and making sure you have emergency supplies in case of another pandemic, or if there’s a natural disaster in your area, because Trump gutting FEMA and the CDC means we will be on our own, 100%, to deal with whatever calamities are coming. We’ve been low-spend since the election and will continue to do that, as cash is king during times like this. We aren’t making too many travel plans, as we’re not sure how safe it will be, both with the FAA losing too many people, and with unrest growing in cities across the U.S.
Life as we knew it prior to the second Trump administration may be gone, and may not be coming back. Safe travel, safe food, reasonable regulation, competent government officials who have a handle on things – that’s all over, at least for now. I have no idea how this will end, but between now and the end, things aren’t going to be very comfortable. So I would prepare for a lot of discomfort.
The Dems literally opened their latest DNC meeting with a discussion of the bylaws for non-b1nary members and then denial of responsibility for the loss. They need to wake tf up.
Re: “cash is king”…I’m actually making needed updates to my house right now (new well water filtration system, bathroom reno to resolve old/leaky plumbing, etc). I figure that in a true worst case scenario, the value of a dollar will plummet, investments may disappear, etc, but at least I will have all these tangible things squared away. Cash exists as numbers in the cloud and who knows what Elon is going to do; a new refrigerator exists as a real thing keeping my food edible for the next 10+ years.
I realize that in a TRUE economic collapse we are all screwed, though.
Voted for Harris but knew she’d lose. Democrats would rather lose than appeal to voters and it shows.
In my D city in a red / purple state, fringe issues are still dominating any discussion of anything, so that doesn’t bode well for the future. Political leadership has learned nothing and is digging in its stupid heels. Opposition will never amount to much because they are still too busy defining what a woman is (or are committed to not being able to to that).
+1
I agree basically with everything you wrote, and understand that their power as lawmakers to prevent what is happening is limited. I’d appreciate seeing more organizing, and more (AND BETTER!) messaging. This administration is working hard to create a dishonest and damaging narrative (really, many narratives) and you don’t need a majority to take steps to counter that narrative. Haven’t we all seen how effective repubs/magas have been with messaging? Where is the effort to counter it? Maybe they can throw their weight behind local/state level initiatives that can make a real difference in people’s lives. People need to see tangible, useful action from politicians. I just don’t see much strategic thinking from this party in general and it’s SO disappointing.
People like AOC are why we got into this mess. The Democrats should have shut down her extremism, not given it a voice that split the party and turned moderates away. Dems need to quit it with the fringe issues and put together a cohesive plan that appeals to the broader electorate.
People didn’t actually belief Trump when he said he didn’t know what Project w025 was and he wasn’t goilg to implement it. They knew and didn’t care, because we all know why they voted for him — they voted for him because of reasons you are not supposed to vote someone into office. He unleashed an ugly underbelly of the American electorate that has felt freed-up to vote on the basis of bigotry. The hard-core supporters fervently wish to revive the Confederacy; they all want to, or have gone, Nazi. It’s atrocious, but hardly surprising, given the history of the United States. The United States is and always has been racist, sexist, and white supremacist, with only the level of suppression of these traits varying over time. We are who we thought we were.
I would not say that the courts are “bending the knee.” Maybe SCOTUS, but there are a fair number of district court judges putting up a fight.
I think the stock market will crash and unemployment will soar. From there I’m not sure whether the American people will revolt or the oligarchy will take over, could go either way.
I’m thinking oligarchy. The billionaires are basically salivating at what’s happening and falling over themselves to flatter Elon/Trump.
Yea, the downstream impact on the economy of mass layoffs/cuts in the federal government is really not being talked about enough. It’s not going to be good.
I also think the latter. The number of people who relate to the billionaires despite being broke and in debt is astounding.
My theory is that we have a strongly aspirational society. The underclasses don’t want to financially penalize the upper classes, on the off-chance they rise to that social level some day. Unfortunately for them, our class structure is more rigid that we believe, although it is much less rigid than in other countries.
I’ve been expecting that. Too, just the sheer number of workers being unemployed, won’t that have an affect on total taxes collected nationally? If not for 2024, then for 2025?
Plus the rumors and reporting about DGE efforts to gain access to Personally Identifiable Information, including individual income tax records, will surely suppress the compliance of the U.S. population in filing their individual income tax returns. Perhaps that is part of the overall project 2025 plant, too, to set up a lack of funding that leads to cuts in social security and medicare. The oligarch just can’t stand seeing all that money “just sitting there” and want to grab it. They don’t understand is those funds belong to taxpayer/wage earners, who have agreed to allow government to borrow from it until we are eligible to retrieve it again in our old age or if we become disabled. It’s adtually our money in a way that our income taxes are not.
IDK
I’m going to the national park a few hours from me and would post anything foul or dangers but wouldn’t want that used as ammo against remaining park workers.
But I guess we will see what doing less with less looks like IRL. Like maybe more planes crash? No restrooms at national parks (will bring my own TP just in case and a trowel).
World war.
I’m serious.
The recent headspin regarding Russia is disgusting.
Unfortunately, I agree.
Perhaps this veers too much towards nihilism… I think the lead up is going to be cumbersome and awful, actual war will basically end civilization as we know it because some egomaniac will send nukes flying, and life for whoever makes it through to the other side is going to be very, very different than what we have known thus far.
What Trump has done over these 2 terms has told all country of the world – NEVER trust the US. We will disregard all treaties we have made with you.
Ukraine sacrificed its nuclear arsenal on the agreement that Russia would never invade, and the US would protect. Both sides abdicated. So if you are a smaller country – stable or not – the world has learned to never, never, never give up your nuclear weapons.
The current generation does not remember the nuclear arms race and it’s significance. It will now resume with a vengeance.
Most likely outcome is not that different from last time: they screw up a bunch of things and public opinion sours on them enough to get voted out of office and everyone eventually picks up the pieces. Not to minimize the damage- people will die and have their lives made worse, just like during the pandemic, which I think you could easily argue our economy and society hadn’t come close to recovering from yet.
But there’s clearly the possibility for something much worse, either in terms of the government not being able to respond to a crisis (another pandemic, war with China, additional aggression by Russia, who knows what) or a longer descent into authoritarianism, plus the damage to our economy from tariffs and trade wars and running the government like a mob boss with no tether to reality.
I think there will be another “election” but it won’t be free or fair. The voter suppression, intimidation, and delegitimization of the electoral process have been gaining strength for years now.
Let’s be real here this election wasn’t fair either. The oligarchs and Russia had their fingers all over it.
Musk bought the election for Trump, from people who weren’t smart enough to distinguish fiction from reality. The amount of money he spent absolutely had an outsize influence on the outcome. And I don’t see any mechanisms being put in place to prevent that from happening again. The average American certainly isn’t getting any smarter, or harder to manipulate.
Ok, but 30% of people didn’t vote. You could blame misinformation, and certainly there was some disenfranchisement, but mostly it was a dereliction of personal responsibility. Blood is on their hands
Kamala outspent Trump by 650 MILLION dollars. Her budget was 1 billion to his 345 mm so what are you even talking about.
10:33 that’s why he didn’t need to advertise, why he wasn’t holding campaign events, why they didn’t even have campaign OFFICES in half the states – because they knew it would be handed to him
there have been a lot of slip ups saying basically that (in PA particularly) from trump, elon, and even musk’s kid.
what she is talking about is large scale misinformation courtesy of Twitter, Fox News and Co, pushing pro Trump propaganda that he didn’t have to pay a single cent for.
What you’re ignoring is that traditional media like The New York Times, CNN, and others pushed narratives favoring Kamala just as hard. They weren’t exactly unbiased, and let’s not pretend they didn’t spread their own misinformation. Labeling every opposing viewpoint as “misinformation” is just a way to dismiss people who disagree. Voters had access to both sides—it’s not like Trump supporters were the only ones exposed to biased coverage. Plus, let’s be real—liberals don’t even like Twitter anymore, so acting like it was some massive advantage for Trump doesn’t hold up.
And let’s drop the outrage about billionaire influence—it’s not like this is something new. We’re already living in an oligarchy, and Democrats are just as beholden to billionaire money as anyone else. Soros, Hoffman, Gates—you name it. They bankroll the party and shape its agenda, but no one seems to care about billionaire influence when it benefits the left. Acting like Musk tipping the scales is some unprecedented corruption is just ignoring the billionaire-driven machine that’s been running the Democratic Party for years.
I don’t have a problem with Trump reviewing and cutting programs – the president gets to set an agenda, no matter how much I dislike it.
But you have to admit that what Elon is doing IS unprecented (and illegal). You don’t dismantle departments and strip political enemies of their titles and disappear money out of accounts where it’s already been sent all in three weeks. There is NO transparency here and a lot of made up numbers/gaslighting.
Assess, make a plan and then cut, in a way that values the input of all stakeholders.
Inflation will continue to rise and we will have a recession. Before or after midterms? I’m guessing before, so maybe we’ll see some relief in 2 years.
4 years from now? The dems still don’t have their ‘ish together. More centrist republicans win the ticket.
30+ years from now? This is a mere blip on a country’s long, successful history of democracy.
This will be catastrophic not a blip. History will remember this.
Agreed. It’s human nature to minimize but this one isn’t going to be a blip. Countries can and do fall to authoritarianism all the time. We’re not special.
I don’t think it’s minimization to refuse to concede to a perpetual Trump presidency. I acknowledge that that’s exactly what he wants. But I refuse to agree that’s the most likely outcome, first because I think it actually isn’t. Too much of the power of his movement is in Trump himself and he’s too old. I’m not even convinced he’ll be alive and in condition to run again in 2028 if he wanted to. Second, even if that happens, no matter what he and his minions do, it’s not a foregone conclusion that people go along with it. Voting happens locally and and people can fight back at every level. I absolutely refuse to concede that this country would go down with a fight and I think it’s dangerous talk to imply that it’s a done deal. We should acknowledge the possibility that it can happen here, but acceptance gives Trump too much power and makes this more likely.
I very much agree with your take.
I think I have to step away from this site because it is absolutely feeding my anxiety, but I appreciate this take. I think a lot of damage will be done in terms of medical research, climate change, and other instances of setting us up for the future, but I’m hopeful the country and world will survive.
You are so right that it seems the MAGATs are cultishly following Trump, and when the “dear leader” goes away, cults often fall apart. They can’t care about his policies because those don’t exist in any cohesive way. They are drawn to a man and without that man, hopefully the house of cards collapses
Oh yes! I remember hearing this conspiracy theory from my ultra conservative relatives during the Biden administration. It makes sense that it’s now adopted by the other end of the political spectrum.
absolutely. people will remember this — it’s a fork in the road.
How often do democracies typically last much longer than this?
By that logic, monarchies should be making a comeback?
You realize that all of the most stable and prosperous democracies in the world are constitutional monarchies? Absolute monarchies are outdated nonsense.
The difference isn’t monarchy or presidency, the difference is a separation of the roles of governance (Prime Minister) and national symbols (King/Queen or non-governing President like
Ireland or Austria).
Polybius’s cycle of constitutions says oligarchy is next, then monarchy. Unless we’re already at oligarchy!
Historically I was taught that monarchy usually comes about as a populist reaction against the consolidation of power among a wealthy elite (basically people want “an elite” of their own to push back against the rest).
Look, if King Charles wants to take us back at this point, I’m not sure I’d say no right now.
Yeah, because things are going so well in the UK right now. Crippling inflation, skyrocketing energy costs, and a healthcare system on life support with record NHS wait times. The government’s stuck in a cycle of scandals and leadership changes. Meanwhile, the monarchy is clinging to relevance. If King Charles took over, we’d be worse off and maybe some extra taxes to keep Buckingham Palace heated.
That’s what I’ve been wondering. Who will be on the next presidential ticket? Anyone work for the dnc?
Dems will probably run Biden again at this rate.
Sadly agreeing with how they respond typically these days.
There won’t be a next presidential election. Musk will be dictator.
+1, there will be no election, at least not one that is free and fair. How people cannot see this is beyond me.
the ONLY loud dems i’m seeing right now are AOC, elizabeth warren, and pete butitgeg… and none of them are electable for pres.
And Chris Murphy who seems very electable.
I agree with 9:46 and 9:47. It’s gonna be a rough four years. Some things are gonna break – I don’t know whether that’s the economy, Congress, idiotic real estate ventures that get us trapped in the Middle East for another couple decades and we restart the draft… I have no idea. BUT I believe that we’ll be ok long-term after he’s gone and we pick up the pieces.
I’m 9:47, and 40 years old. So, I clearly wasn’t alive in the 60s or during the Vietnam Era, or during the cold war. But I have to assume it felt just as helpless. Maybe that’s why my otherwise very empathetic and rational 1955 baby parents just aren’t nearly as upset as the 20 and 30-somethings I know. It’s all relative and perspective is invaluable?
I’m not saying this is fun or easy or good, or that we should stand idly by. But I tend to (have to, for my own sanity?) think that we’ve survived some pretty terrible things in just the last century, and so we will again.
“We” is doing a lot of work here; not everyone survived.
I used “we” but maybe I should have used “it” to avoid this exact interpretation – it survived, our country’s existence and it’s democratic government.
“We” here obviously means the country. 100% of people from the Civil War era are dead now, for sure.
Is it even a good thing that it survived? I guess we’ll see how it ends.
A lot of people haven’t even survived the mismanagement of the pandemic these last years.
I’m 9:51. I’m 43 and my mom’s 79. She’s the opposite – she’s a Fox News consuming, “the world is going to heck in a handbasket,” and I too wonder about the 60s and the upheavel then. “Mom, weren’t the 60s the same in some ways? Race riots, war protests?” and the haze of rose-colored glasses I guess just makes her say she doesn’t really remember it being so pervasive. And to be fair, she lived in a leafy New England town and worked in a bridal shop – she genuinely wasn’t paying attention to protests. But still!
I was alive then and NO it was nothing like this, nothing. We had hope. This is catastrophically, end-of-times terrible. The stakes are higher and the weapons are worse these days.
It will take fifty years to go back to a federal government this bloated. Even my liberal-ish friends are furious at what is being uncovered and the scope of waste.
What? I’ve seen no actual evidence of even one real instance of bloat or waste. Except for those DoD pet projects that even the military wants to cut, but those haven’t been “uncovered” yet. That may be one good result of this reign of terror purge
Nice creative writing
Lololol
Hasn’t the federal government been shrinking over the years proportionate to the population? I thought we were going from inadequate and understaffed to woefully inadequate. Even a lot of the inefficiency is from refusing to invest enough to modernize.
Shrinking in proportion to population doesn’t automatically mean the government is inadequate—it means it’s overdue for efficiency. The private sector has streamlined operations and embraced technology, while the government lags behind, weighed down by bureaucracy and outdated systems. Case in point: federal employee retirement paperwork is still processed manually in a limestone mine from the 1950s, with output literally limited by the speed of an elevator. This isn’t about a lack of funding—it’s about clinging to outdated methods instead of modernizing.
Where did you get the idea that the private sector is efficient?
There have literally been projects to modernize but the private contractors were too… inefficient… to get the job done on the allotted budget. Yes sometimes this means taxpayers were cheated (just look at Deloitte’s work for the pandemic response).
My sibling works for a private company and the things she talks about (e.g., cleaning the PJ a la movie star spa day) make it seem spectacularly inefficient.
Nothing has been ‘uncovered’. They are just cutting based on words they don’t like. Auditing is an important task but it’s not a software engineer job. It’s an accountant job. And they kneecapped tax collection by cutting IRS agents.
They mixed up medical research on gene specific rats for cancer research because they don’t know the difference between transgenic and transgender.
Nothing they are doing is aimed at cutting any actual mismanagement. They are so incompetent and barely literate.
Lmao
I have not heard a single liberal or liberal-ish person say that.
Yeah everybody is in favor of getting rid of cancer research and the national parks /s
If you need to make stuff up to either feel better about yourself, or to make yourself feel like your fascist vote was the right one, it’s time for a looooong hard look in the mirror.
These people have no ability to introspect or examine their motivations. They just cling to the belief that they are right, because Trump says it’s true. I’ve never seen a less self-aware group of people. Absolutely everything is externalized.
Maybe that lack of introspection is exactly why Democrats are falling apart. Instead of asking why their policies and messaging keep flopping, they dismiss half the country as ignorant or brainwashed, clinging to the idea that their moral superiority alone should win elections. Spoiler: it doesn’t. People want results, not lectures. Look at 2024—working-class voters, minorities, and independents all shifted right. Meanwhile, Democrats prop themselves up with left-leaning billionaires like Soros, Hoffman, and Gates, pretending they’re the party of the people while relying on elite donors to keep their machine running. Ignoring voters’ concerns while doubling down on failed strategies is why they’re bleeding support across key demographics. Until Democrats stop blaming everyone else, confront their dependence on billionaire money, and start owning their failures, they’ll keep losing—and wondering why no one’s buying what they’re selling.
Thank you Anon @1:28.
Anon at 1:28: sorry, I’m just not interested in reading your rant that seems be be generated by AI, or maybe just composed of talking points from Fox News you’re regurgitating. Continue to be a nice little tool of the machine and keep spewing nonsense and misinformation. When what’s coming for the USA hits your town, and then your neighborhood, and then your household? I don’t think you’ll be ranting a bunch of nonsense about how the Democrats are controlled by George Soros. Hope your kids don’t starve to death.
It appears to be true that half the country is ignorant. Never mind the dem’s take on it, our country cannot thrive with that level of moronuc input.
I can’t even fathom how far right you have to be to have friends who think there has been anything “uncovered” and that you consider those friends liberal-ish.
There is no way this poster has liberal friends. Or friends.
There’s nothing which has been ‘uncovered’ that was not already available to view on usaspending.gov which was created by McCain, Obama and others almost 20 years ago.
Musk is nuts and uninformed. Like ranting that are more SSNs than citizens? of course there are!!! It would be suspicious if there was not because people who are legally working in the US but are not citizens also have SSNs.
or zooted out of his mind
also, SSNs stay on the books after the person has died.
Please specify. I’m curious.
I’d guess in the 30 year range.
CPAC had Trump 2028 stickers. They’ll either run him on the basis that it only bars more than two consecutive terms if they can get a Supreme Court decision supporting that or they will run him as VP with a figurehead P.
This is direct from the Putin playbook. He spent a few years changing up between Prime Minister and President and the respective powers of each before getting the powers consolidated as he has now.
Populations quickly forget what ‘normal’ is. Based on similar situations around the world, it only takes a decade or so for a new ‘normal’ to establish itself.
He’s pushing boundaries fast and hard now because then it creates 4 years of new normal and people forget that we used to have an office dedicated to tracking foreign influence on our elections etc.
It feels like the world before Citizens United has already been forgotten.
Right? Other democracies operate in a vastly different way in terms of political donations and influence.
The consolidation of wealth by billionaires means a few individuals can have a hugely disproportionate impact.
He’s pretty likely to be dead by 2028. The man is 78 and clearly not well now.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there are any pain-free paths forward. The US Debt to GDP ratio is incredibly high, higher than it was in 1945 after the US had sunk tremendous resources into WWII. This was masked for a long time by low interest rates which kept US borrowing costs low. We, as a nation, have to reckon with it or ultimately the US will default. Spending (including entitlement programs and defense) must go down and taxes must go up. All of this will suck and be painful and hurt people. I don’t know how much progress Trump/Musk will actually make on the spending side but Harris, who I voted for, was not going to address it at all.
Taxes need to go up for the 1% and corporations.
I wish that were enough. There are many good calculators out there to play with the numbers. https://www.crfb.org/debtfixer is pretty good.
it would be enough if we closed loopholes and prevented offshoring.
This.
Isn’t there a lot of room for taxes to go up at the top even if we just stick to precedented tax rates? We’ve also seen proposals to tax Wall Street transactions.
That would be wonderful.
don’t you know the external revenue service and tariffs are going to take care of all of that? we’ll be able to do away with income tax entirely!
/s, in case that wasn’t clear.
The tldr is, yes there’s a lot of room for tax rates to go up “precedentedly” at the top /and also yes/, that’s not enough to cover entitlement spending without reforms (or large & unexpected demographic changes – like a 10x increase in immigration, or an unprecedented reversal in birth rate trends).
Reforms sound great. We could try getting rid of predatory middlemen and rent seeking industries wherever they exist, for example.
They won’t make progress because their cuts are not financially based. IRS agents return on average $26 for every $1 spent on salary when they audit the 0.1%. But they just fired thousands of IRS agents.
Musk is being awarded billions in contracts through his various companies and has fired anyone who tried to enforcing laws in respect of his companies.
Well spent money can mean lower costs in the long term. Cutting a program that ‘transitions’ developmentally delayed high schoolers into jobs in the community results in a long term savings if they are employed vs on welfare. Cutting the program because it involves the word ‘transitions’ is not a smart move.
Harris WAS going to address it, and spending doesn’t need to go down as much as DGE is sledgehammering away, irresponsibly. They are trying to get to a certain level before March, when the debt ceiling runs out, so they can maintain tax cuts for the wealthy that sunset this year unless they are renewed. In order to pay for those tax cuts on the superwealthy (which do nothing to improve the economy), the Republicans need to cut spending. But if those tax cuts were not renewed, that would free up spending on essential services that are being eliminated unconstitutionally by DGE right now. It’s all so grotesquely destructive.
The biggest weight on the scale going forward will be climate change and mass migration away from areas that will become increasingly inhospitable. Even though the GOP is denying this on a surface level, you can see it’s playing into their policies already – e.g., calling for taking over Greenland in the name of national security, American energy independence, etc. The resource wars haven’t begun yet and they will be nasty, especially when China starts running out of food. So I predict that Trump is the first in a long line of authoritarian, “America first” strongmen leaders.
Great explanation. Imperialism was the way of the world until the last 60 years. It was naive to think that there wouldn’t be pushback.
You can also view those actions as things that benefit Russia, and having nothing to do with climate change.
Not well! Civil war, world war maybe? Eventually with a new American constitution, I hope. I just last night had a terrifying dream about no longer being able to freely leave one’s house or speak openly and I won’t be surprised if it comes true.
Pretty much already true for folks who live and work in the Washington, DC area, sadly.
(1) they will follow the Dubai model and import cheap labor from India
(2) They don’t care. It’s all about the dynasty building. 10/10 chance that kid is appointed to something when he turns 18. Just like Trump gave his kids jobs the firs time round.
(3) Fasicsts tend to prefer quirky facial hair.
I think calling it importing cheap labor is a bit generous, the UAE enslaves people.
Some very tiny part of me hopes JD Vance’s severe right swing is all an act and he took the VP slot just hoping for Trump to die (because does anyone really think he’s going to make it 4 years, healthwise?) and can then take over to get back to some sort of what I’d call “normal” conservative government, where you don’t try to dismantle democracy as we know it even if I disagree with every policy decision. But I don’t really believe that.
You clearly have not researched his positions.
He’s further to the right than Trump on policy, but maybe less of a dictator wannabe. TBD.
I think he’s clearly a guy who’s willing to lie for power. I’m not relying on it, but I still have a sliver of hope he’s on some kind of white-knight, save the country tear, and has at least enough conception of himself as a good guy to do a Pence 2.0 if it came down to it.
So when his book came out, back in the halcyon days of 2016, I read the book (fascinating to me because I also have Scots-Irish relatives who settled in Appalachia) and listened to some interviews and podcasts about it and with him speaking. I don’t think his current personal presentation and stated beliefs are really who he is, at the core. Remember that at one point, he denounced Trump.
I do think he’s a very savvy person who is able to play some pretty impressive strategic chess, and maybe saw latching onto the Trump Train as a way to get ahead in politics. I think he’s playing some kind of long game, and who knows what the end result will be, but I do try to remember: he is not of Trump’s class or ilk, at all. He came out of a tough upbringing. I don’t think he has much innate love for the generationally wealthy. I’m probably grasping at straws, but I do have a glimmer of hope, there.
I agree there’s a disconnect between Hillbilly Elegy Vance and VP Vance…the question is which one is more authentically him. And whether someone who has pendulumed that much is remotely trustworthy!
Vance and Thiel and the other tech bros right swings are just means to an end for them — making themselves richer. They don’t care about public service or Christian evangelicals for that matter.
Major recession or depression and war is what I’m predicting.
The incel-christo fascist coalition does everything it can to gut women’s rights, SCOTUS helps them, we end up with no Federal rights other than the right to vote, and that gets gutted by requiring passports to vote and then not staffing anyone to issue them. The federal government is run by Musk and Thiel, and spends its money replicating the Chinese model of social control. The oligarchs divide up Federal land and federal assets, privatize them and make as much money as they can while destroying them. Or, the Republicans and their corporate donors wake the F up, and we avert disaster.
Honestly? This.
Texas just cancelled its maternal mortality review committee to prevent info coming out on the situation since the ending of Roe v Wade.
sick
My risk assessment has definitely gone up since the inauguration, mostly because of Musk. I originally thought he, Bannon and Trump would basically self destruct against each other but now…
+1 – The fact that Musk and Trump have not had a massive falling out already terrifies me. I didn’t think they would make it this long and still be on something remotely close to the same page.
It only feels like “this long”. The inauguration was a month ago, and the Elon shenanigans started after that. The pronouncements of Elon as the real president have only been around for a couple weeks. It could still happen.
The press conference that Elon gave in the Oval Office makes me convinced that he has something huge in Trump. I can’t remember Trump ever allowing someone to take his spotlight like that, especially in the Oval Office.
It ends in kleptocracy, just like it ends in kleptocracy in the dozens of countries around the world where these kind of events take place.
Advice on how to answer salary requirements question for in-house attorney positions? I haven’t job-hunted in a while, and candidly, I know I’ve landed on the lower end salary wise in my previous in-house roles. I’m seeing a lot of job applications that are requiring a number to be entered with the initial application. It’s so hard to answer this with the initial application not knowing more about the role/benefits/bonus structure, and if the posting does have a salary range posted, it is often just the salary band for the position with a wide range. How do you recommend that I approach this? My current salary is so under market that anything would be a raise. Ultimately, I want something that is fair and reasonable, and while I do not want to undersell myself, I also do not want to be bypassed for having too high of a request (which I fear may be happening as I have not heard back on any applications).
I always answered “To be discussed” or, if I had to enter a number, put in 0. There’s no way to win this since you either put a number in that’s too high and get eliminated or put a number in that’s too low and undersell yourself. Most career advice people recommend you never give a number if you can help it.
+1
If you’ve done IVF, would poor experiences with the front desk and other clerical staff make you want to consider a different clinic?
We’re only at the beginning with our insurance’s preferred clinic and I’m getting stabby. Just two examples: It took 4 weeks for them to send pricing info. They finally sent over a 15-page price list of *every procedure offered at the clinic*, not one customized to our treatment plan. One clerk on the phone completely misrepresented some major things about appointments and the doctor looked at me like I had two heads when I brought up X and Y. “Where’d you get that info?” “Oh, that’s what they said on the phone when I called to schedule.” “Huh. Well, actually…”
I really liked the doctor and I liked the nurse well enough. The facility is great and in-line with what I’d expect from a fancy pants hospital. And I know good help can be hard to find, but part of me is thinking if they can’t get basic admin things right, do I really trust them not to mix up embryos? I know, I know, different people will do it – I’m normally chill about things, but the stakes are so high here.
This is the only clinic our insurance has a relationship with, so we’d be paying an unknown amount more to go with somebody different. Any strong recs or avoids for the DC area? Preferably east side – we live over the Bay bridge, so big travel for us no matter who we want to use.
If this is your only choice with insurance I wouldn’t consider moving unless the money truly doesn’t matter to you. I love my clinic and the medical care is top notch but billing is a disaster. Really not uncommon to have bad front of office staff unfortunately but it doesn’t mean the care isn’t good. I’m just very aggressive about sending portal messages and following up with my doctor. I’ve also found that the admin side of things during a cycle is usually better than before.
Yes. I would have at least considered a different clinic, if not outright made the switch.
I did multiple IUI and IVF rounds and it was on the whole an extremely stressful time. I was reassured by the fact that the doctors, nurses and staff at my clinic were clear and concise in their explanations and treatment. The last thing I wanted was to be worrying about the administrative side of things as well. I would also be upset if there were any delays like you are describing at the outset – I’d be left wondering whether those delays would carry through into scheduling the actual treatments as well.
That being said, I was in the lucky position of having at least one IVF round fully funded no matter which clinic I was at. If this is the only clinic that takes your insurance and the cost could potentially be prohibitive elsewhere, switching may not be an easy decision.
Sending over a comprehensive price list seems completely fine. Four weeks is a little long, but IVF is a slow process; it didn’t delay you a cycle, did it? I’d be fussed if it did, but so would the doctor.
The getting stuff wrong on the phone thing — what sort of stuff were they getting wrong?
Ultimately, vibes matter and your opinion of the clinic matters. But sending you a generic price list after a delay is something even my (extremely competent) clinic would do.
Just to add color, if they told you things that affected your care, like “you don’t need to be fasting” when you did and so you had to come back for a second draw, that would make me think about switching, because that’s annoying. If it was, like, “our nurse practitioner is only in on Thursdays,” and then you show up on a Tuesday and she’s there, that wouldn’t bother me.
The pricing thing doesn’t seem like a problem to me. It’s good to have all that info! You don’t know exactly what procedures you’re going to need until you’re needing them. You don’t say exactly what the other issues were, so if you’re happy with the doctor I wouldn’t leave, personally.
My first clinic was like this. It wasn’t that I was/would be concerned about embryo mix up, to use your example. Rather, the worst part was the added stress it caused during an already brutally stressful process to get what felt like basic questions answered. They would forget to call me with my nightly instructions during an active cycle. And, in one particularly horrible example, they “missed” that I didn’t have a certain vaccine booster (a hospital policy that was implemented well before my treatment cycle), so I went and got it the week before my new cycle started. Literally the day before I was due to start my injections, I was told that given the type of vaccine it was (live culture?), I couldn’t have a transfer for 60 days post vaccine, so I ended up getting a net 90 day delay in treatment because of this requirement. It was an administrative miss, clearly. So, it got really, really bad in my case. I switched clinics two years too late and quickly realized it didn’t have to be as bad as I had experienced with my first clinic.
In case it matters, my first clinic was MGH in Boston – a monster facility where I was but a mere number. I switched to Boston IVF and I became a person. It did wonders for my mental health.
IVF is very time sensitive. you will need detailed instructions from nurses on what to take when, which will updated daily at some points in tbe process. if it gets screwed up, the cycle will be ruined. So the if the front desk incompetence is a signal about how the office as a whole operates, run.
Communication from nurses is not the same as communication from the front desk.
The pricing list is standard and wouldn’t bother me. My clinic sends a comprehensive pricing list after your first appointment because what you are doing month to month may vary and they want you to have the info up front. Also if it’s covered by your insurance, it’s less of an issue.
The phone thing would bother me if one of the nurses gave me the wrong info but not the staff.
If you like the doctor and the nurse, I would stay. The nurses are very important – you will see/talk to them all the time.
I think the main thing about fertility treatment is that it’s not like other medical treatment. I’ve had cancer and also done a lot of fertility treatment (4 years total). When I had cancer, I didn’t think about treatment at all – it was all coordinated for me by the hospital. Not the case with fertility treatment, and I LOVE my doctor/the nurse/the staff and go to a top center. I still have to stay on top of things – reading things carefully, watching for billing issues, making sure I’m not running out of meds, learning how to administer meds, reading about fertility treatment generally so I can know if something seems off and ask the right questions, etc.
Sure. I changed clinics for a few reasons (including that the doctor I liked left), but one of them was that the front desk literally kept me in the waiting room until 15 minutes had passed, then canceled my appointment for being late.
I’m not in DC, so I can’t help there.
I froze my eggs a few years ago through Shady Grove Fertility and was happy with them. I’ve had friends use them for IUIs and they were happy as well. I used the downtown DC office and had the procedure done in Rockville. It looks like they have several other offices, including in Annapolis.
Good luck!
The Shady Grove network is large and successful for a reason – they are a well-oiled machine.
I was in middle school for the 2008 recession. I work in local government public health (for now…my department is funded by federal grants) so the pandemic era was both very stable and “lucrative” in my field (in that there were lots of grants and money flowing to my department, not that it was personally lucrative though there was lots of mandatory OT).
I have decided that since my department is on the chopping block to take my public health background to pursue becoming a science or health teacher – working now to get into a credentialing program and find a position in a school. I know people say now is a bad time to get into education given the plans for the DoEd, but it’s a worse time to be in public health! I do live in a blue state with strong education, so I am optimistic that education will be okay-ish (and my other option was to do a BS to BSN program but there are similar concerns about healthcare so).
All this to say, if this all works out according to plan and I’m gainfully employed I will be taking a pay cut. How do recessions impact economics and finance on a very micro, personal level? Do rents tend to come down? Other consumer goods? What happens to salaries for people who can keep their jobs?
Going back to school makes sense but choosing a low income field like education over healthcare does not.
Nursing school instructor is a nice fall back if nursing becomes too physically demanding though.
Nursing instructors are not well paid.
That’s true; I was thinking more that nursing doesn’t preclude a teaching career (vs. going straight into teaching).
Nursing faculty in CA are, I believe,
There are a lot of non-bedside nursing opportunities — patient education, insurance, tele-nursing, etc.
Teacher pay is low in some places and much, much better in others. Also I suspect basic competence is a hindrance to getting a position as a public school principal or superintendent, but those salaries are quite high in my area.
As a new grad in 2008 what I primarily remember about the recession was the loss of value in any investments and a very tight job market. So people planning to retire soon were out of luck, people planning to use the equity in their homes were out of luck and people looking for jobs were out of luck. Don’t recall much change in rents or consumer goods.
Oh no, prices for basic goods never dropped during that recession (I was 31 when it hit). That’s why Trump’s promise to make grocery prices decrease is so laughable. In the worst economic downturn in decades, when unemployment was sky-high and people had very little buying power, none of the food manufacturers or retailers cut prices. At one point, I was working only part-time and my husband had been laid off and was on unemployment, and groceries, gas, etc. cost us just as much as when we had two full-time jobs. Grocery prices have never gone down in my lifetime, or my mom’s lifetime (she’s 74) and I don’t see that changing.
Nursing will remain in demand; however, from what my nurse family members tell me the shortage of nurses nationwide is not great for workload and patient care. Traveling nurses make bank though.
Science teacher is the better option as
a) more in demand especially in city districts (east coast)
b) generally there are only 1-2 health teachers in a school
c) look at the local to you job boards for teaching and see what the openings in both specialties look like
keep us posted
I have family and friends who are teachers in several states. Most of them have quit or retired early within the past three years. The rest are miserable and looking to leave. The kids are unprepared and unruly, parents are disrespectful and demanding, admin does not support teachers with classroom discipline, book bans are rampant, school boards are waging political assault on teachers, teachers are being required to deal with ever-increasing amounts of meaningless paperwork (e.g., all lesson plans must be filed and approved in advance) and to dumb down their teaching to fit poorly designed mandated curricula (e.g., no more novels or essays in English class). It’s brutal.
There was a recent discussion on the moms board with people claiming that the behavior/preparedness of the kids was certainly not a factor in burnout…in fact, teachers love the current crop of kids and say they are their favorite generation ever!
Those moms must live in wealthy districts or pay for private, where the teachers will tell you whatever you want to hear about little Tradwick and Snowflakelyn.
As a private school teacher (who will never, ever go back to public school) while the behavior and preparedness are NOT what they once were and not what they should be, it is still so much better than other schools.
I’m in my 40s and in my lifetime, I’ve never seen rents come down significantly, other than in a few large cities very briefly in 2020. There might be specials here and there seasonally, like a free month or two of rent, but nothing major. And if you work for a state or local government, expect hiring freezes, furloughs, and no pay raises for long time. On the other hand, I started investing when I was in grad school in 2008 (after markets crashed), and even though I was making almost nothing, those small amounts of money I was able to put away then have done really well!
Nursing provides skills you can use for pay or in moments of crisis. I’d go that direction over teaching, which is low pay / high headache in the best of times.
That’s a huge amount of additional education compared with teacher training, which in many states is minimal.
OP – I think your idea is great. Go for it! In my area, the teachers are doing well. Know your area.
In the 2008 recession, there were a bunch of rental concessions where I live in addition to slightly lower rents – so think, 1-2 months free rent, landlord pays broker fee, that sort of thing. Consumer goods were sometimes heavily discounted but nothing you needed, more like fancy bags and shoes. Grocery prices stayed steady. I think if your main expense is rent and you take a pay cut for a steady job, you should be okay.
No, prices don’t come down. They just go up at a slower rate. So does wage growth.
K-12 education is primarily funded by local taxes and local taxes also take a hit during recessions and economic downturns, so it’s not, like, a totally fool-proof plan to not be impacted. In my local school district they definitely lay off teachers and increase class sizes when funding is not enough.
Unless you’re an oligarch, there is nothing that will be totally fool-proof to not be impacted.
I’ve thought about this a lot and have decided teaching over nursing for several reasons. Not planning on changing my mind there.
When I was considering teaching, I had a friend of a friend who let me sit in on her class for a day & she talked to me all about it. It was helpful if you haven’t already done something like this already.
I remember rents going down in NYC in the recession, but jobs were hard to come by, so… it didn’t really help.
Salaries are what they are, and you learn to make do. It’s easier when you’ve been poor your entire life, as you don’t miss what you’ve never had. That said, start living like a student again. Ignore the trends and keeping up with the Joneses. Any friends who might judge you for making sound financial choices and stretching your budget isn’t much of a friend.
Don’t look at your retirement accounts. They will bounce back, absent a total descent into chaos.
Get and make full use of your library card.
I work in local government public health, I’m very, very familiar with low salaries. Odd of you to assume I’m some high roller right now… My life is already library card and buying second hand and Aldi…
It’s great to have frugal skills. I guess I’d be asking myself where I can cut back even more though in light of a pay cut. As others have noted, prices won’t go down. Either you spend less or earn more to make ends meet.
You really don’t need to be so defensive.
In 2008, housing prices came down – both purchase prices and the knock-on effect of rental prices – in several major markets…. But that was greatly because the recession was heavily influenced by sub-prime real estate lending, so banks had thousands of empty foreclosed houses on their books.
Houses that had been $200k in Florida neighbourhoods in 2007 were being sold at auction for $40k in 2009.
I don’t think we can expect that type of thing for the next one, even regionally, unless it’s another real estate-focussed crisis.
Has anyone stayed at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club? I got a heavily discounted offer from Marriott for 5 nights there…any thoughts on it?
just make sure the dates of the offer don’t coincide with something that’s preventing them from selling at full rates, like the pool being closed or some rare but predictable thing like the return of whatever hawaii’s version of cicadas is
wtf?
Oh ffs.
Girl, don’t circle the block. Never let a man tell you he doesn’t want you more than once. Try Peter, David, or Richard instead. Maybe choose the tomato option instead of the pink to ignite those fiery flames.
I am strongly progressive and strongly opposed to the gutting of federal positions in the executive branch. And this question probably sounds dumb. Nonetheless I am having some logical trouble with understanding how this type of action, in itself, leads to the end of democracy, as many are saying it will. Is it because this is being done illegally or because of the results? I get how if a court says the executive cannot change regulations, but the executive ignores that court, we have a constitutional crisis which threatens democracy.
Because Congress has appropriated funding for agencies, programs, and grants and it’s not within executive power to unilaterally override that.
For me, it is that, more than the extreme pivot of certain topics no longer being a funding priority for the government (that’s only reckless and short-sighted). The willingness to ignore checks and balances. Firing inspectors general which are supposed to monitor the executive branch on behalf of Congress. Mulling to defy court orders while the supreme Court is already heavily stacked conservative, and enforcement of court orders resides with the department of justice, which he is also intentionally purging of people with spines. For me, those are the democracy threats.
Maybe plus the very obvious money grab to further concentrate wealth, although that is already so advanced that I don’t see how it could possibly make a difference for regular people.
There are a lot of government thing that the general public has no idea occur, basic safety and oversight for food, transportation, security etc. Jobs that no one sees but prevent the public from being poisoned or killed. These jobs are all disappearing. There’s also lots of bland IT, building, program management, and planning jobs that are being outsourced at a tremendous mark up to line oligarchs pockets.
A democratic republic means that we directly elect people who enact laws and regulations. Bringing the executive branch under the control of the President is the exact opposite of ending democracy.
Gosh you’re trash. Installing a dictatorship is indeed ending democracy. Absolute power is not democratic.
“The ultimate democracy is when the demos installs a king!” You can’t be serious.
Let me fix that for you: The President unilaterally attempting to bring the executive branch under his direct control is a sign that our republic has already begun failing.
LOL, that’s not how it works.
Yes, yes it is how it works. The executive branch does not swear an oath to the president; they swear an oath to the Constitution, as does the president. THAT is who the executive branch works “for,” the Constitution, NOT the president. The president “presides,” and manages and sets policy and so forth, and is the head of state for international sovereign to sovereign purposes, and is the commander in chief of the military, but the Attorney General is NOT the “president’s lawyer,” for example. (The office of the president has an office of the White House counsel, and he is free to retain private counsel for private/individual legal advice.). So the president is not king. We fought a revolution to establish that fact.
I think it’s mostly the “because of how it’s done” (executive usurping power that belongs to Congress; and in a way that’s so non transparent, it’s not even clear to me whether courts can evaluate /if/ their orders are being followed; lawyers on the other side can’t get enough info to mount an effective legal challenge, etc). Like if Congress (even at the executive’s request) statutorily decommissioned the USDA and eliminated funding for every scientist working on controlling the bird flu epidemic, I’d think that was a bad, shortsighted policy, but I wouldn’t be worried it presaged the end of democracy (maybe presages the end of eggs at the grocery store though)
One “what they’re doing” thing that imo is different is the cuts at the federal election commission, installation of loyalist, and the exec order that they should not be considered “independent” and are bound to publicly back any assertion of the president (like, say, that a election’s results are or are not valid).
I think it might be helpful to read up on how Russia ended up a kleptocracy rather than a free democracy like it’s Western neighbors.
I think a lot of the comparisons to Russia are misplaced because much of what happened there happened as a reaction to the chaos of the democratic 90s that that country experienced after the fall of the USSR. This doesn’t mean that those perpetuating the chaos here don’t have the current Russian regime as the end game but it remains to be seen how the American public responds. A lot of people in the west have a hard time understanding why that govt has the support it has, but it’s not only because of state propaganda. Many people are objectively living better quality lives than ever before in the history of Russia and are willing to stay out of politics to continue doing so. But this is consistent with Russian history – most people believe you can’t have stability without a strongman at the helm. The US has a totally different culture and tradition and that’s a lot harder to subvert than the 10-15 years of press freedom that many Russians associate with a lot of other ills and are willing to trade for order. Americans just don’t have the same culture as all these other countries with these kind of regimes. That’s probably the most optimist thing I can think right now. I don’t know that the same agent can both cause the chaos and also claim credit for solving it unless you’re starting off with a pretty dire situation a la the 1917 revolution.
That said, OP, you can read/listen to Anne Applebaum on why what is happening here is so bad – she’s been making the podcast rounds and is very smart on the topic. For me, it’s a combo of ignoring separation of powers, both by changing what congress already approved/appropriated and by ignoring the courts/established protocols, and the stacking of previously non-political govt agencies with political hacks who will do the administration’s bidding.
How much time did everyone spend learning American civics in school? I’m guessing it’s a number that decreases with age. As an old, I spent countless hours on checks and balances, and how each of the three branches of government had separate roles. If the executive is overriding the role of Congress and the court rulings against him, then that is no longer democracy.
Maybe to be technical, we should say that’s no longer a constitutional democracy, or undermines the rule of law. I certainly don’t think it’s a good idea! But there’s multiple concepts wrapped up in America’s governing structure, and I think it’ll help to discuss with more precise language
What’s the current status with the Baldoni-Lively situation? The last I understood was when that NY Times article came out. But it seems like a lot has come out since then and its hard to know what to think
I’m confused that so many people seem to care about this? We had a whole thread on it yesterday.
Co-sign. Stop trying to make fetch happen. Let the lawyers take it all.
seriously
At least this poster differs from earlier ones who claim they are constantly inundated by the topic.
FWIW, I only ever encounter the subject in the comments here. Never in the wild.
+1
same! Even BuzzFeed hasn’t shown me this much content on the topic!
Probably same poster just changed tactics after people said it’s easy to avoid stories about it.
Barely anyone knows who he is IRL. He’s barely famous.
The more that comes out, the worse he looks. I used to just find him gross but the constant posts here trying to pretend like it’s unclear who is at fault only serve to make me actively hate him.
Current status is that JB looks awful because of his billionaire backer Steve Sarowitz who says stuff like this about Blake and Ryan.
“I will protect the studio like Israel protected itself from Hamas. There were 39,000 dead bodies. There will be two dead bodies when I’m done. Minimum’ “
Can’t wait for them get to court. Hope we never hear from Baldoni or Sarowitz again.
Just go follow the pop apologists. They’re covering this in depth.
Really? I have avoid them ever since they were horrible about the whole Princess Catherine thing. It’s not funny to speculate about suicide attempts. They didn’t know she had cancer but it was still horrible. I wouldn’t trust anything they say about anything.
No one cares. Stop trying to make this a thing.
I grew up in a family where literally everyone was in government, teaching, or nursing. All 3 were sold to me as great options: very stable, good benefits, good middle class salary, reasonable hours. The true middle class American dream.
I’m now in government and am about to lose my job. My sister is a teacher and lives with 3 roommates at age 30 because she can barely afford rent in our MCOL area.
WTF happened?!
And also, what would you now recommend to kids as the stable and secure job that pays the bills?
Anything healthcare related.
Nursing, doctor, psychologist, physiotherapist.
Will continue to be in high demand in US with aging population makes it super easy to move other places as lots of other countries have shortages due to aging populations and higher demand on services.
and hard to outsource. I’d focus on particularly the healthcare that requires hands on or in person care. Or skilled trades, like being an electrician
But as to what happened, I think part of it is that core costs of living rose a lot more than headline inflation (you care more about whether you can afford housing, healthcare and education; than about whether your TV is technologically better than the one stable middle class families had in 1980).
Teaching has been a bad career financially for 30+ years.
Skilled trades.
My aunt and uncle reached out to me today to ask if I am willing to be named as a trusted advisor in how my cousin spends the money she inherits from their revocable trust. They don’t trust her to make good financial decisions, but I think she would. She doesn’t have any cognitive impairment or lack of good judgment. We are pretty close so I know she would come to me anyway if she had questions (I am a lawyer). They said I wouldn’t have any legal obligations. But I think my cousin would be offended. How do I talk to them about this?
I would say no.
Nope. Sounds like a nice setup for future discontent and family drama. They aren’t making you the POA or trustee and she is not incapacitated. Idk what “trusted advisor” means, but why not just get her a good financial advisor. She’s a competent adult and adults are allowed to make bad decision.
Looking for advice on choice of outfit. I have to appear in family court as my ex husband has filed for a modification. It’s in Texas and he is a nightmare ex who has been exhausting.
I was going to wear a navy dress suit from brooks brothers with black heels. Not sure if this will go against me. I’m not a housewife but I do very much care for my children despite working 2-3 jobs. My anxiety is running high and I’m double guessing myself. I don’t want to give the impression that I’m this high flyer who is just focused on their career at the expense of my family.
I think you’re better off looking more like a mom. I hate to say this but people don’t like business women, even judges. I had expensive witness prep prior to corporate litigation and they told me to wear pink or other “soft” colors. I wish I were making this up.
I would wear pants, flat shoes, and no blazer, but look put-together. I don’t think showing up looking like a lawyer is a good idea (even if you are one).
I’m in Texas and agree with other posters. No suit/blazer. Soften a bit. It sounds like a really stressful situation, I’m sorry.
Ask your lawyer this question. It depends a lot on the specific judge, the fact pattern, what exactly your ex is asking for, etc.
Thank you for the advice, which I greatly appreciate. I’m not a lawyer and this is my first experience of family court.
My lawyer is fantastic but it’s all prohibitively expensive.
Twin set over plain pants, and NO pearl necklace. Simple “dot” earrings only for jewelry. Feminine, but flat or low-heeled shoes. Good luck!