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anonintheuk
That is an unfortunate choice of trouser colour. At first I thought she was nude from the waist down
Anon
Same! Does anyone wear khaki on a regular basis? I’ve never found a shade or fit that doesn’t make me look 3 sizes bigger and is horrendous against my pale, pale skin. I’m already dreading the khaki skort/shorts/pants uniform when I’m a course marshall a pro golf tournament next summer.
anon
Khaki makes me feel extremely frumpy. I think it can look good on women who exude that all-natural preppy wholesome look, though.
Anon
Same. I have never looked at someone wearing khaki and thought “wow, how chic”
Camel is another story. It can look very chic on women with different skin tones than mine (pinkish pale).
Anonymous
Yes, camel only works on warm skin tones. We cool-toned people look awful in it.
Anonymous
When I’m required to wear khakis, I reach for a darker brown or gray/greige shade. I’m super pale and don’t tan (SPF all the time, redhead).
coffee bean
Agree. For the life of me, I don’t understand nude leggings or pants – and I mean whatever is your own skin tone leggings. I can’t see how they’re cute or flattering, and I *always* do the “is she actually wearing pants?” double take. Gross.
Anon
I like this blouse but I’d wear it with a black pencil skirt for a two piece dress look, which works well for tall me because one piece dresses are often too short for me.
Anonymous
I’m brown, think Halle Berry. This is not a “nude” look for me. #melaninMonday everyday.
Anonymous
But it is a n u d e look for the model! The pants are the exact same color as her arms. She looks n@ked. That is the point. Nobody is saying that the pants are n u d e for everyone.
Anonymous
Thanks for the heads up. I like the button front tops because the stretch fabric doesn’t gap on me, but YMMV.
Silent treatment
Going in day 3 of my husband giving me the complete silent treatment. I admit that I screwed up. He’s a health nut and gives me a hard time if I skip the gym (e.g., you are lazy, etc). Saturday I skipped but told him I went because I didn’t want to get berated for not going, which is absolutely what he does when I don’t go. I know – lying is wrong, no matter what. But still. He nosed around and found out I didn’t go, and is now not speaking to me. This kind of thing has happened several times before in our 3+ years of marriage, and I don’t want to live the rest of my life like this. Scared of the idea of divorce, though, especially what it means for my long-term financial security, but seriously thinking about it. Advice?
Unicorn?
You are in an abusive, controlling relationship. Get a therapist and a family lawyer. I’m sorry.
Senior Attorney
This. I have been where you are and I am here to tell you that life on the other side is SO MUCH BETTER.
Anon
Omg divorce him. I don’t even think the silent treatment is the worst part of this. He “berates” you for not going to the gym?? That’s a hard pass.
Anonymous
+1
if this post is real and you’re accurately describing the situation you need help getting out of that marriage. not dealing with the silent treatment.
Anon
This. It sounds too nuts to be real, but if it is, GTFO.
Mrs. Jones
+1
HSAL
Yep. And also that he “nosed around” to find out you had lied to him?! This is multiple levels of not okay. When people comment here for advice on relationship issues, I try to think of the most charitable explanation for the other party’s behavior, recognizing that we’re only getting one side of the story. Here, the best I can come up with is “he wants you to be healthy,” but it doesn’t come anywhere close to excusing his behavior. Don’t let a fear of money keep you in a situation like this.
PolyD
My partner struggles with his weight and I don’t berate him to go to the gym (or about what he eats). I encourage him in the sense of, Yes, prioritize working out, I’ll see you later tonight or we’ll do fun thing on the weekend instead of tonight so you can go to the gym.
And checking up on whether you’d been anywhere you said you were? That’s not normal in a loving relationship.
Anon
I agree that lying isn’t a good sign in a relationship, but OMG … the problem here is that he feel entitled to berate you for anything (or give you the silent treatment), especially something as stupid as skipping a workout. I would be calling a divorce attorney because no one can treat me like that, let alone the person who is supposed to love me more than anyone else and be my support. But if you want to make the relationship work, I think you both need to go to counseling.
mascot
Yes, lying is bad, but so is berating your spouse. Does he think that he is being helpful? Did you ask him to act as your trainer/coach and he’s getting off the rails? If some heart to heart talks aren’t getting the results, I’d suggest a few sessions of couples counseling. Sometimes you need a neutral party to give you some insight.
Anonymous
No no no to couples’ therapy. An abusive partner will manipulate couples’ counseling to his advantage.
Anon
No kidding- not all relationships should be saved.
Senior Attorney
Amen. Couples therapy is the worst thing in a situation like this. It just gives the abuser more ammunition.
Suburban
Hugs.
Even if he’s coming from the best place (he loves you and cares about your physical and mental health), it’s concerning he gives you such a hard time about the gym that you feel the need to lie.
Also, silent treatment is not ok. You, as a couple, need to define the rules of engagement for inevitable fights and disagreements. In my relationship it’s ok to say you need space and leave the house. Not ok to ignore the other person.
I can’t give you insight into the future of this relationship. Lots of folks will recommend therapy and I can’t imagine there’s a downside to that. Good luck and hugs again.
Anon
Just want to chime in that even if he’s concerned about your mental health, the constant threat of being berated for taking a day off is NOT good for her mental health. I think the stress and anxiety of feeling pressured to workout, (because if she doesn’t she gets a verbal lashing) has got to be very bad for her mental health.
Suburban
I agree. My point was that his behavior is out of bounds even when viewed in the most deferential light.
cat socks
Wait, what? He berates you for not going to the gym and tells you you’re lazy? No. That is wrong. I know when you’re in an effed up relationship things like this may seem normal, but this is not normal. Please get out of this relationship. This is abusive behavior.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Contact a lawyer and start getting your finances in order. Things will not get better and this type of controlling behavior is going to extend into other parts of your life. I know it’s hard to consider divorce, but please do it for your mental health and safety.
Anon
Dude, that behavior is not normal. Someone getting that upset over you not feeling like going to the gym, to the point where you feel compelled to lie about it, and then he gets even more upset and it turns into a huge thing where he doesn’t speak to you for days? This is not healthy behavior. You didn’t screw up, it’s a classic controlling, abusive behavior pattern… over something so incredibly stupid. You need couple’s therapy and maybe a divorce. You really don’t have to put up with it. I know he’s probably not like that all the time, and maybe you can try to excuse it by saying oh he just has ocd or anxiety or whatever, but it’s not being handled and you don’t have to stick around to bear the brunt of his untreated issues. Think about how he’ll react when you have real problems, or god forbid if you have kids together.
Anonymous
Couples therapy usually isn’t appropriate or helpful with an abuser.
Anon
Bingo.
Anonymous
Yeah do not go to couple’s therapy. The point of couple’s therapy is NOT to have a neutral third party tell your spouse they’re wrong. It’s to communicate better, listen to each other’s (legitimate) needs, and give you a space to talk things out. This guy does not have any legitimate needs. OP should maybe go to individual therapy to help build herself up and develop a strategy to get out of this relationship.
Unicorn?
Yep. The controlling partner usually finds a way to make therapy another avenue of control.
Senior Attorney
And here’s why: https://www.thehotline.org/2014/08/01/why-we-dont-recommend-couples-counseling-for-abusive-relationships/
TL;DR: “The primary reason we don’t recommend couples counseling is that abuse is not a ‘relationship problem.’ Couples counseling may imply that both partners contribute to the abusive behavior, when the choice to be abusive lies solely with the abusive partner.”
Anonymous
This is no bueno — when you feel like you have to lie about whether you went to the gym to avoid being fussed at; when there is snooping to check up on whether you lied about going to the gym; I don’t know where to start with this one. It’s not like whether you are shooting up again and lying about it, where I could see a trust-but-verify regime as a condition of living at home, it’s wildly, wildly different.
But to you, does this look like a marriage that will age well, when you are old and get a new hip and you are just branded a failure as a human machine? Will he trade you in for a newer/younger model?
Is your dignity worth something? Do you deserve a man who recognizes that you are more than your gym attendance (I can’t think of the last time I went to either of the gyms I belong to, but I do push a full grocery cart at what is probably an aerobic rate)?
cat socks
Ugh, my longer comment is in moderation. This is abusive behavior on his part. Please get out of this relationship.
Anonymous
This is like Neville Chamberlain’s peace in our time. When you do some things to avoid making a hard but necessary decision, it doesn’t end well and begins to compromise you.
Away Game
+1,000,000
Anonymous
He controls whether YOU go to the gym and you have to lie about it? What else does he control? What’s so special about the gym? You really want to live decades of your life like this and maybe also raise kids to tip toe around lest they get daddy mad?
Anon
I am a huge proponent of ’til death do you part. I loathe divorce and have watched the havoc wrecked by people who treated their marriages as disposable. Here’s my advice:
Divorce. Now.
He is abusing you. It might “only” be verbal, but he is exerting a crazy amount of control over you.
Anon
Ugh, probably should complete my thoughts before posting.
I was once in a relationship like this. Ultimately, his desire to control every aspect of my life lead to large problems for people around me, because he harassed them to control me and my response (or lack thereof) to him. I had a boss like this, and I have literal, horrible, crippling PTSD from it.
Get out, get out, get out. This will not and cannot get better, because this is about control.
In-House in Houston
Get out. But if you won’t get out, PLEASE PLEASE don’t have kids. They don’t need to grow up in that kind of environment.
Anonymous
Yes. Please. You need to leave because this is abusive behavior. But also, if you want to have kids, think about how messed up those kids are going to be growing up with a dad who shames them about their bodies.
Anonymous
Also … think about how messed up those kids are going to be growing up with a dad who abuses their mom.
JTM
Is your husband a teenager? WTF?
You as a grown woman are allowed to not do something, and you shouldn’t be berated for not engaging in something that he wants you to do. And then the silent treatment on top of it? In 2019 I want you to get better, cause you deserve better, and your husband aint it.
Anonymous
Yes get divorced immediately. Call a lawyer today and then call atherapist so you don’t pay an attorney to process your feelings.
Anon
Talk to him and consider getting therapy/counseling both by yourself and as a couple. It’s not healthy to feel pressured/stressed out to the point of lying about gym going. Did you guys know of each other’s health habits before marriage? The old saying “You can’t change someone” applies both ways – you’re unlikely to be more excited about the gym just because of him. I was seeing a health freak/workaholic who was either working out or at work at all waking hours and judges anyone who doesn’t spend their time “productively” like he does, and it drove me up the wall! It got to the point where I was resenting him for asking me what I was doing on a Saturday because I felt like there was an expectation for an answer that wasn’t “chilling out, catching up on sleep, being a sloth, etc.” I decided it wasn’t going to work among other reasons. But you guys got to marriage so there must be compensating qualities you found in each other. It’d be worth it to go into therapy and sort out your feelings/expectations/commitment.
Anon
This is bad advice. This is not a “couples problem” they need to work out. OP’s husband is berating her and giving her the silent treatment for not going to the gym. She is so fearful of his reactions that she lies to him. She needs to get out, not to make nice and waste time with a therapist who may “validate” “his side of the story.”
Honestly, maybe you need a therapist too if you think this is normal relationship behavior.
Mrs. Frankweiler
This. Therapy is the answer when something should be saved. The only thing to save here is money – for the divorce and new life and therapy for OP so she doesn’t get into another relationship like this.
Anonymous
TBH, I don’t think therapy works with abusive people. [It seems like he has issues to go work through on his own, but dude probably thinks she’s the one with the problem.]
Anonymous
IMO “getting to marriage” doesn’t mean that there was anything ever there in the first place
I’ve seen people who were begged to DTMF by their own families as the altar / wedding date loomed b/c it is easier to cancel a wedding than get divorced (esp. after a whoops pregnancy), but everyone wondered about appearances (and maybe they’d bought a house together) and chickened out.
There is often no there there.
Unicorn?
This is about so much more than health habits.
Anonymous
No. He doesn’t get a say in her gym habits. His sense of entitlement is off the charts. And he definitely doesn’t have the right to belittle her for not complying with his wishes. This isn’t about being a health freak, this is about being a jerk.
Anon
Imagine how much better and freer your life could be without this controlling, abusive man dominating it and berating you. Please take care of yourself if you decide to leave, which I strongly think you should, and make a plan for your personal safety. He will never change. Abusive men never, never, never, never, never do. You can’t fix him, you can’t improve him, and you shouldn’t try.
Anonymous
You didn’t screw up by not going to the gym. You didn’t even screw up by lying. Lying to avoid being abused (and yes, calling you names is abuse) is not wrong. It’s self preservation. Please be kind to yourself.
Anon
You didn’t screw up by not going to the gym. You didn’t even screw up by lying. Lying to avoid being abused (and yes, calling you names is abuse) is not wrong. It’s self preservation. Please be kind to yourself.
anonymous
Holy GOD divorce him. Shaming you, destroying your self worth, berating you, controlling you, silent treatment, snooping around on you, oh my god. My heart breaks for you, especially reading how you are taking the blame for his god-awful behavior. Some how I suspect that the gym isn’t the only topic that triggers this type of behavior from him? You deserve so much better than this. You owe it to yourself to get away from this person. Handling your own finances may be a struggle but ultimately that one will be easier to resolve than the long term psychological damage this person can do/is doing to you.
Vicky Austin
Yuck. No. It sounds like you are afraid of your husband and he knows it. That is no way to live.
Anon
If you have to lie to your husband to avoid being berated, now’s the time to leave.
Anon
Your husband is super controlling. None of this is ok. At a minimum I suggest marriage counseling. Because right now it sounds like you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Anon
People need to stop recommending marriage counseling in abusive relationships. It’s harmful and it shows you haven’t actually bothered to do research before dispensing advice. I am sure you don’t intend to tell a woman to do something that may hurt her more, but that’s what you’re doing and it needs to stop.
Anon
You’re responding to me. I don’t know what your life experiences have been but I was married to a guy a lot like this – the silent treatment, the judgment, slamming doors, me walking on eggshells – and counseling helped a lot. It helped us realize we should get divorced. And even though my now ex still thought he was right about everything, the counselor said a couple of things adamantly that stuck with him for the short remainder of our marriage – slamming doors is violent, and no one should have to live with that; and muttering b1tch under your breath is the same thing as calling someone b1tch to her face.
Anon
Then you’re the exception and not the rule. I’m glad you got out of an abusive marriage and I want to help more women be best equipped to do the same.
anon
Completely different commentor: couples therapy was part of my path to getting out of an emotionally abusive long-term relationship. There is a lot of eduction that can be accomplished when both parties are in the room.
Silent treatment
Thanks all for the comments. It’s definitely (sadly) real! Of course there is a lot more background, and if he were telling this story, he would frame it in terms of the pain and disappointment of being lied to, and I guess that’s legitimate. But he’s taking it to a level that I can’t deal with. Good advice to seek therapy, which I am doing personally. Not sure I want to do therapy with, because honestly, I don’t know if I want to stay married to him. If I went home today and he said he wanted a divorce, I’d be relived. UGH! Anyway, thanks again for the comments.
Anon4This
Good luck. There’s more of us with you, in many ways, than you know.
Anonymous
Pay attention to that feeling–that if you went home and he said he wanted a divorce you would feel “relieved.” This is not how a marriage should work and is incredibly unfair to you. Even when I’m mad at or annoyed with my husband, if he came home and said he wanted a divorce I would feel devastated. The fact that you would feel relieved says a lot. Listen to your inner voice.
Anon
Rooting for you. Hugs.
Marie
That last comment you made about being relieved if he told you that you wanted a divorce tells you everything you need to know about just how unhappy you are in what is only your third year of marriage. While people usually say life is short, I imagine life can feel very long if this is how you can expect to spend the rest of it.
I am so sorry you are in this situation and am sending you warm thoughts and support to get through this. You deserve a partner who makes you feel good about yourself and not like you have to lie in order to avoid disappointing him and being “punished” for making a choice about your own health. I hope you will check back in with us and let us know how you are doing.
Senior Attorney
That’s your answer, right? If you would be relieved to be divorcing, then it’s in your control to make that happen.
It took me 15 years and three tries to get out of a marriage like this. I twisted and turned and bent myself into a pretzel and jumped through so many hoops to make it work, and when I left it was sad and scary but OMG! My life now is so much better than I could ever have dreamed! I am with a man who loves and respects me and is kind, but you know what? Even when I was alone and expecting to be alone for the rest of my life, I was about a million times happier than when I was walking on eggshells around Mr. Silent Treatment.
Big hugs to you! You deserve so much better than this!
Anon
If you find yourself wishing he would initiate a divorce and imagine yourself feeling relieved, then it is time.
Anonymous
Again, marriage counseling is a bad idea with a controlling partner. She needs individual counseling.
Momofboys
Big hugs! Leave. Now. He is a man baby and profoundly abusive on a myriad of levels. What is most telling of the need for you to leave is that you now agree with his assertions of lazy, etc. The H about the $$ component. This will be the price of peace for you. And that’s a fine purchase!
You will be fine (having done it myself many years ago) and will blossom in immeasurable ways once you are out from this.
Please keep us posted.
Another anon
Your husband’s behavior is so so far away from what is normal and okay. Please listen to what everyone is saying. You need to see a divorce lawyer ASAP, and it would also be helpful to see a therapist for yourself. Maybe see if you can go through the Employee Assistance Program at your workplace, if one is offered.
And I’ll second what others are saying about couples therapy. It’s not a good idea when your spouse is exhibiting crazy controlling behavior like this. Just because he’s not hitting you doesn’t mean it’s not abuse with very real consequences for your mental health. I mean, he’s already gotten you to the point where you think it’s your fault! The only option here is to leave.
As encouragement that your finances will be okay if you leave him, I am one possible future for you. I was married for 5 years to an extremely controlling man who would also give me the silent treatment when he was upset at me for doing xyz. I finally left him and started over with zero money or assets. The first year was tough financially, but I made it work and now have lots of money in savings and retirement. Your finances are seriously the last thing you should worry about right now. The future version of yourself will see this as just a blip in your finances that ultimately ends up making you stronger.
Separately, I can’t adequately describe how freeing it was when I left him and realized I wasn’t walking on eggshells anymore. Even acquaintances who didn’t know what happened would comment to me that I seemed different and happier. You’ve likely lost track of what it’s like to not have the anxiety about your husband’s possible reactions just hanging over you all the time.
Good luck and please keep us posted if you need additional support. I know it’s not easy.
Another anon
One more thing, DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HIM! I’ve seen a couple friends with similarly controlling/abusive spouses who they tried to leave, and having kids in the mix makes it so so so much harder. Without kids, you can have a clean break, and you don’t have to worry about your now ex-husband trying to use the kids to control you.
Unicorn?
And please make sure you are in charge of your birth control and that it’s absolutely tamper-proof. Controlling men frequently use reproductive coercion, like birth control sabotage, to increase their control over a partner. especially if they sense that the partner might be trying to leave them.
Leah
Long term view: if you choose to continue to put up with this, you will turn into my mother. She has tolerated being treated like this for over forty years. Twice in the past month she has informed me of the average lifespan of men and women in the U.S. Instead of choosing to GTFO, she has waited until the end of her life and is hoping via statistics to hang on long enough to enjoy a few final years out from under his thumb.
Imagine being seventy and fervently wishing that you will outlive your controlling husband. Is that who you want to be?
Anonymous
I do not say this lightly at all. On this s]te it’s often said flippantly to divorce to any marital problem but truly if you are only 3 years in and do not have children you should leave. This person is not normal and you will have nothing but stress, anxiety, and conflict if you spend the next 40 years with him. Therapy won’t fix this. See a lawyer on your own secretly (maybe will “at the gym”) build up some money in your own name if you don’t have it now, and leave. Good luck to you.
Silent treatment
Again, thanks all. We don’t have kids, certainly I don’t plan to with him, and – I never thought I’d say this – I’m glad that we have a prenup. I was so mad at him at the time for making me sign one, but now I’m hoping it will make the next steps easier if/when I do decide to initiate a split.
Anon
Holy crap, DTMFA.
Rainbow Hair
Hey gal, on the off chance you’re in the LA area and need a place to crash, hit me up, seriously. I want you to be safe. <3
Anon
I will add in the same offer for Cincinnati. I even have an extra apartment right now, due to overlapping leases.
Sloan Sabbith
Same in Seattle. I’m out of town for the holidays but you’re free to stay at my place for a few days.
It’s Review Time!
I had a good year, and volunteered for lots of projects above and beyond my basic job. I was rewarded with a promotion (same basic job; new title and raise).
Here’s the trouble: if I’m being honest, I’m overextended. Small things are almost falling through cracks and I’m not able to develop the depth of client relationships that I’d like to have. There’s no time to organize everything and I can’t be proactive, or even sufficiently responsive. It feel like my work is a mile long and an inch deep. When I fill out my self evaluation, I’m really tempted to write this, but I’m worried it’ll look like a negative goal, especially with the focus on “metrics,” ( do more!) at my office . Any thoughts or tips? Thanks!
Anon
Don’t write anything negative on your own review. Those things stick around forever and you don’t want it coming back to bite you. If you do feel that you need more time for planning, it’s something to talk about outside of the yearly performance review cycle.
Anonymous
Don’t write in review. Express gratitude for the advancement opportunity. Separately, does your company have training in project management, time management or stress management? Each time I do something like that I come away with a tip or two.
Cat
Do NOT write anything negative about yourself. Talk about the experience you gained and your ability to prioritize. Discuss your concern with your manager separately and even then don’t say “I’ve been dropping the details” — you’re “worried you’re becoming spread too thin” and want advice on which of the new initiatives are most worth your effort.
anon
Secret time. You’re not alone in feeling this way – it’s just called moving up. Be quiet, focus on what you did and accept that you had a good year. Do the same next year. You’ll learn that the stuff that slips wasn’t that important in the first place.
Anonymous
I don’t agree that all of the stuff that slips wasn’t important. It sounds as if part of OP’s issue is that she wants to devote more time to things that are “important but not urgent,” such as developing strong client relationships, but she only has time to focus on the things that are “urgent.” If she wants to continue advancing, she needs to figure out how to spend some time on long-term strategic goals.
Op
Right! Thanks all! I guess my problem is that my true goal is the scale down the volume and get a sane grip on these things. But that’s not a goal that I’m totally comfortable sharing on my self evaluation. Do I find a way to couch it ? Do I just lie and say I’ll do even more, faster, better?
Anonymous
Why are “scale down” or “do more” the only options? What about just “mature and grow as a ______[new job title]”? Which, yes, includes staying sane and getting a handle on all this extra responsibility. Surely you don’t have to leap straight into volunteering for all the additional projects.
Anonymous
You’re doing awesome for juggling all of this. If you need a direct report or to expand your department or pull someone in on a task so that projects can get the attention they deserve, that’s a separate issue. Bring it up in a different way.
How to split housing costs?
My boyfriend and I have started talking about moving in together. He would be moving in to my house, which I purchased about 4 years ago. We haven’t discussed how we would split living expenses yet, and I’m trying to decide what to ask for.
As background, I make about 2.5 times what he does (the benefit of being an attorney :-)). He currently rents a place out in the suburbs with roommates for X. My house is in the city, closer to his job, and the mortgage payment for my place is 3X, with each payment taking about X off the principal. I was thinking about asking for 75% of X as a rent payment, which would save him a little as compared to his current rent and mean that I was paying a decent amount less. And it would also mean I was paying a higher share of my income to the house, which seems fair since I benefit from owning it.
Does that seem fair to others?
Anonymous
Wait, what? No, why would he pay any less than X?
Cat
Yeah based on your respective incomes, keeping it at X (or a nearby round number) seems fair. He should also pay 50% of all household expenses — utilities, etc.
Anonymous
IDK
If you break up, do you want him as a tenant of sorts that you can’t kick out? Does he want to live somewhere with no protections to his dwelling if you break up?
Have you asked him to consider the status of mortgage and utilities costs (and hiring a cleaning service if you don’t already have one — labor isn’t free and if you value that the outset, it becomes a way to talk about chores / responsibilities / expectations) and to make a proposal of what would be fair? How he sees it will probably tell you what you need to know about him and how this will go for you and your relationship.
Ellen
Yes, this was me. My ex moved in and never lifted a finger or paid for anything except mabye for a few times when he bought beer nuts and cheap chocolates from CVS for me. FOOEY on that! No, you should be careful with a looser b/c all he will do is dirty up your carpet and have you pay for everything b/c it is your apartement. My ex never even bought potatoes when I told him I bought lamb chops and would cook for him. He told me to get apple pie for dessert and REAL whipped cream. What a schmoe he was! I do not know if your boyfriend is different, but trust me, there won’t be any improvement in the s-x, as he told me, b/c he would not have to trudge home at night anymore. In fact, it was worse, b/c he always stunk up the bed with his gas issues. DOUBEL FOOEY on all of that. I am so happy that I do not have him or another looser smelling up the bed b/f I got in. TRIPEL FOOEY!
anon
What I would do is figure out what the reasonable rent for the house would be if you were renting it, then ask him to contribute 50% of that amount. If he would never rent a house like that except that you own it, then maybe give him some kind of a “discount” for your choice. He is not responsible for your mortgage costs, but you also don’t need to use your mortgage to subsidize his living expenses
Vicky Austin
+1. But also what Anon at 9:29 said.
Anon
It sounds fair to me!
Anon
It seems ‘fair’ but I think you need to work this out together and make sure he sees it that way. Instead of telling him what his rent is and springing hard numbers on him, lay out the mortgage costs and all your monthly expenses for the house with an emphasis that you feel the ownership benefits you get translate to you paying around 2/3 of the mortgage. He may be prepared to pay more, and it might make him feel like he’s not an equal partner, just your renter or like he isn’t pulling his weight if he’s paying less than 1/3 of the mortgage. I would propose an even split of any association fees and all utilities, as well as groceries, but perhaps he wants to pay your suggested rent and cover the internet, and if that makes him feel a shared sense of ownership in the expenses, go with it. Fair and feeling a sense of equality aren’t always the same.
Anonymous
I like this answer. There was something I couldn’t quite put my finger on about how OP asked the question and I think you’ve articulated it nicely. How to share costs isn’t something that OP should come up with on her own and “propose” to her BF. It’s a conversation, not a mediation. Come to the table prepared to talk about what the costs are. Then you figure out together what “fair” looks like.
Anonymous
I’m confused – is X defined twice or do you mean that his current rent = the amount of principal reduction per month?
In any event, I don’t think he should get a discount off what he’s paying now. He’s living with a bunch of roommates far away. He’s moving into a more expensive house, with his GF, and he’s closer to everything. He should expect to pay MORE for this place, not less. BUT maybe he can’t afford a rent hike, he’s the one with the moving expenses, and he doesn’t really have a choice in the house – I think keeping his rent at X is more than fair. Splitting housing costs 33/66 also is about proportionate to your incomes, so that works nicely too.
How to split housing costs?
his current rent is equal to the amount of principal reduction each month
Anonymous
I commented elsewhere but I wanted to separately address the idea that an SO shouldn’t have to pay into a house when it’s only in one partner’s name. I’ve been on both sides of this and personally I think that argument is BS. You’re not just roommates. Presumably you’re moving in together because you hope this will be a very longterm thing. Which means eventually the entire house – including a portion that you put in yourself before you even met him – will help your joint overall financial outlook (even if you have a prenup he’s still getting the benefit of increased financial security during the marriage). I think it’s really splitting hairs in a not-relationship-preserving-way to say, no I don’t want like $100/mo of my money going toward principal on a house that’s not in my name. Like if you rented a house your money would be paying someone else’s mortgage anyway so idk why it’s a huge problem that your SO –
and you by association – is getting that benefit instead of a landlord?
I’d feel differently if the house was paid off, or if you were on some super aggressive mortgage repayment. But a normal 30 year mortgage where most of your money is going to interest anyway? Yeah no get out of here with your nickle and diming nonsense.
Anonymous
Not sure I agree, but it is not a mere-roommate situation. A mere roommate doesn’t say “I really prefer my couch to yours, let’s do that and paint the room in MyTeam colors.” But a spouse gets to be involved in house-stuff — what if he plants a magnolia? Does he get to make changes? Or not? Where do his dishes go? And his towels? And his furniture? And his mom, when she comes to visit?
The way you envision this and the way he envisions this need to mesh. Even if it is “your” house.
anon
Why are you moving in together? If you plan to marry, I’d suggest figuring out your approach to finances now. If not, I’d reconsider the whole thing – he’ll become your tenant and splitting up when you own a home and he doesn’t can be a nightmare. The TLDR? Don’t do this unless or until it’s “forever.”
Anonymous
I felt this way too. It’s one thing to move in together as renters, but I kind of feel like situations like this are part of what marriage as a legal institution is for.
Anonymous
Wait so you think a single woman who buys her own home should never cohabitate with a man before deciding to marry him? We should just rent forever until we meet our one true love? Please allow me to welcome you to the 21st century, where women can in fact own property and have jobs and lives before marriage!
Anon
I’m Anon from 10:05 and I can assure you I am very aware of the 21st century. My caution has nothing to do with being a single woman or any old fashioned notions of cohabitating. It’s just not a smart financial move to get into a joint occupancy situation where you own the place and you have no plans to marry the guy. I’d suggest renting a place together if you’re dying to live together.I would not want to become the LL to my boyfriend. It’s messy enough evicting a tenant let alone a relationship gone sour. So no, I wouldn’t do that unless I was getting married. (fwiw, I took my own advice and I’m also a LL with multiple properties so my POV is just practical.)
How to split housing costs?
Thanks all for your thoughts!
I’m planning to sit down with him and lay out all of my expenses and have this talk and come to a joint decision, but wanted to have an idea of what I would propose/want is a split before doing so. I like the idea of having him come up with a proposed split, but I suspect his immediate reaction will be to split costs 50-50 – which doesn’t seem fair at all to me and would be tight financially for him.
The rental cost of the house would be 3-4x. There is no way I’m suggesting that he pay that much, and I wouldn’t feel ok with such a split where I get that much benefit. And I guess my hang-up with asking for X is that I feel like I’m getting all of the financial benefit. He is still paying the same amount, and although the house is closer in, he doesn’t really value that benefit. Whereas, I’m then saving X a month.
Hopefully, this will all be meaningless because we decide to get married in the near future, but if we split up I don’t want either of us to feel like it wasn’t fair.
busybee
Honestly I just wouldn’t do this. You seem to be saying that splitting up and getting married are both possibilities. I wouldn’t live in a house with someone unless we were engaged or married, unless we were both renting the house and neither of us owned it. He’s literally going to be your tenant. He’s helping you pay off your mortgage and will away with nothing if you break up, whereas you’ll walk away with more of your mortgage paid off than you would have otherwise. I agree with PPs that this kind of situation is best handled within the legal framework of marriage.
Anonymous
Where are you getting that more of her mortgage would be paid off? Most people in this situation wouldn’t continue to make their normal payment AND add in the money from their SO. They continue to pay whatever the mortgage is. The SO’s portion of the mortgage payment frees up that much of OP’s cash – to be used for joint things like entertainment, vacation, etc.
Also – I’m not seeing any unfairness to him. He’s no worse off financially than he would’ve been if he’d continued to rent for $X/mo.
Anon
But he also gets to live with you… shouldn’t that be a benefit?
Senior Attorney
And presumably your house is a darned sight nicer than the apartment he is living in with one or more bros.
busybee
That’s a bit s3xist, no? Presuming that a woman keeps a better home than men?
Anon
Yes.
Senior Attorney
No I presume that the owner-occupied house with a mortgage payment of 3-4x is way nicer than a rental apartment with rent of x, and that living with the owner of that house is way nicer than living with one or more apartmentmates.
Sarabeth
Does he really not value that benefit at all? If he could magically swap his current apartment for an identical one in the closer location, he wouldn’t care?
I would at least be open to the possibility that him paying you $X/month is win-win. You save money, he gets to live in a closer (and nicer?) house, and you both get to live with each other.
Anon
When my now husband moved in with me in a similar situation, I proposed he pay me the same amount he was currently paying in rent, plus half of utilities (because my utilities essentially doubled when he moved in).
He didn’t like it and wanted me to just give him a set amount every month so he could budget for it. I said no, I wasn’t his mommy, and this is what it cost to live in my house.
We were in a stalemate for a couple of days but then he ended up agreeing that I was right. It was the right way to start the relationship on equal footing.
Cookbooks
I was not the original poster who asked, but to the anon who suggested the Cole Haan layered down puffer coat–thanks! I bought one shortly after, and I love it.
Anon
Thanks from me, too! I have not worn it yet but can tell it is a great coat. What color did you get? I wonder if I will regret choosing navy instead of gray/black.
Anon
I AM the person who asked, and I also bought the coat! I bought it in the merlot, which is a little more purple than it looked like online. But I’m WARM! It’s a departure from my ‘always black winter coats’ life, but I am enjoying it. The only downside is that it leaks ONE feather onto me every time I wear it – and usually on my behind. Alas. Thanks!
Cookbooks
I got black. I almost went for the navy, but old habits die hard; I’m one of those people who tends to wear mostly all black.
Anon
I don’t have this coat but a similar one, and I bought a dark olive green. I feel like it goes with all my black, my navies, and my greys, which are basically all my winter wardrobe neutrals. I think navy blue would work the same way.
Marie
This may be the coat I have been searching for. One question for ladies who have it: I’m worried about length since I’m an even 5 feet tall. I’d want a coat like this to fall above my knee. Can anyone comment on how long your coat is on you at your height and what size you ordered?
Cookbooks
I’m 5’1 and ordered the XS. It falls below my knees, which I don’t mind. I walk to the subway, so the more of me that’s warmer, the better. But it’s fitted enough that it doesn’t look like I’m drowning in it.
Anon
YAY!! That was me! Glad you guys love it!
Talc-free recs
This came up yesterday, but I’m wondering if people have recs for Sephora-level brands of powder or eyeshadow that is talc-free? I’d prefer powder-like eye shadow, so a cream to powder is fine, but I’m looking for something for daytime wear, so can’t be full on cream. I just checked my current ones this morning (Smashbox powder and Tarte eyeshadow palettes) and they all have talc as the main ingredient. Not panicking or anything, but would be good to switch!
Scarlett
Admittedly I don’t really check ingredients in makeup, but I love the Glossier lidstar eye shadow – it’s a cream/liquid but it goes on lightly and actually lasts all day.
JuniorMinion
I’ve never found any (although I’m more focused on mascara and ingredients as a contact lens wearer). For what its worth there is talc with asbestos and talc without asbestos. The issues with babypowder (as I understand them) concern J&J using the former, which has been linked to cancer.
Anon
No specific brand recommended but look for “mineral eyeshadow”. It is crushed minerals and pigment instead of dyed talc. I think Tarte has clay and mineral based pigments. There are actually a lot of good small makeup brands that have gorgeous mineral makeup that is three free – I only buy from the ones with a good selection and thousands of positive reviews.
Fresh Start
How do I become less pessimistic when it comes to people? I’ve had some bad experiences with family and now former friends treating me horribly this past year. However, I was given a promotion this year with more responsibility and work and it unexpectedly forced me to reevaluate my life and create better boundaries.
But now I’m kind of lonely and am in the market for a new “tribe”. It almost feels like ‘getting back out there’ after a bad break up but I dont know where to start…I joined some meetups but they never met regularly. I also joined a few Facebook groups but they got gossipy and mean. Should I lower my expectations? I read somewhere that it takes up to 2 years to rebuild a tribe…that sounds so long =(
Anonymous
You’ve got two topics: how do I meet people I like, and how do I open myself up to people after being treated badly.
My really quick response is that both will take some time, and also …don’t take this TOO seriously exactly right now. It’s Christmas and New Years, and this time of year can exacerbate the loneliness and the pessimism. Just ride out these next couple of weeks, go easy on yourself, and then tackle some new friend building in the new year.
Suburban
I think it’s ok to have different friend for different purposes. I gave up the idea of having cohesive “tribe” or friends that I am equally close with. I have a friend with whom I’ll share the real life, tough stuff, but she lives a plane ride away. I have a friend that gets surface level life info, but our kids play and we go to the park together. I have a few buddies that meet for drinks,etc. I’m going to be disappointed in people if I expect the wrong thing from them. I just think that’s a part of grown up life, or mine anyway.
Anonymous
+1 – once I realised this I was so much happier. Take from different relationships what you need and obviously give them your friendship in return, but don’t expect more from them than they can give, just as they can’t expect more that you can give. Go with the flow – its like love – as soon as you stop looking for it, you find it!
Rainbow Hair
This is my experience as well! The people who I would call in the middle of the night because my heart was breaking… they live way over there, and I (tragically!) can’t have beers with them at the drop of a hat. But I’ve found a group I can text to suggest beers and probably someone will say yes! And then the friend who is (almost) guaranteed to show up for a BBQ… she will never commit to a one-on-one plan with me, so I’ve stopped trying, but our kids play together. I have lovely besties who text with me inexhaustibly about crafts, but live far too far away to do them with me. Etc. etc.
Anonymous
I think you should focus on building individual friendships rather than a “tribe.” Figure out what you actually enjoy doing, and either invite people to join you or — with luck– those activities you enjoy might naturally lead to meeting new people. But, yes, I think you need to lower your expectations and remember that the “tribe” effect is what led to you having a pack of former friends.
Disclaimer: this could be a completely terrible, horrible idea — maybe you could use this time to try dating since you wouldn’t be missing out on fun plans with your friends anyway and wouldn’t be overly influenced by how the date fits into your preexisting friend group? As I type it out, it sounds like the set up for a super creepy relationship, but the idea came to mind because I have several female friends who ended up meeting close friends through men they met online/on apps after moving to a new city or otherwise shaking things up.
Senior Attorney
Let me put in a pitch for some kind of service club. I found my “tribe” at Rotary after having just an awful experience joining a church that pitched itself as welcoming and inclusive. I feel like groups where you do service together, if that’s of interest to you at all, is a great, great way to meet quality people. Doesn’t have to be a club — could be any nonprofit that does work you are interested in.
Also I’ve had good luck meeting people at the gym — same class regularly and chat afterwards.
S
I went through something similar, and 2 years is about what it took for sure, if not more. My new, pro-boundary tribe is so much healthier. It was lonely for a little bit but worth it.
Anon
On the subject of controlling family: a big “thank you” to everyone back in the spring who responded to my question about how my family was behaving after my engagement. (Briefly: screaming and verbal abuse to the point that I cried and felt so helpless that I considered breaking off the engagement.)
It was good to hear that none of that was okay, and the suggested coping strategies were very helpful. That was a very emotional thing for me, but it was also the tip of the iceberg of a lot of other dysfunction. It forced me to think a lot about whether I put up with far too much in the name of family harmony. (Spoiler alert: looking back on it now, wow. Family is irreplaceable, but I should have severed ties with a few particular people 20 years ago.)
It’s hard to give good advice to a stranger, but it helped a LOT. So thank you.
lsw
Hugs and congrats to you – boundaries are hard and looking at your family dynamics objectively can be even harder!
Anon for this
Has anyone paid for food sensitivity testing with Everywell or that Groupon thing today? I’m curious but too lazy to do an exclusion diet or whatever they’re called.
Anonymous
I’ve done food sensitivity testing, but it was through a doctor. And I ended up having to do an elimination diet anyway (I guess it’s still more reliable than the tests).
Anonymous
And, by the way, a temporary elimination diet is a piece of cake compared to having to live with a food restriction!
Anon
I could have sworn I read an article or blog post that talked about how the same person submitting multiple times resulted in different allergies, but I can’t find it. The methods they use isn’t scientifically valid and shouldn’t be used as medical advice, so if you do it take it with a grain of salt.
Anonymous
Is there still such a thing as a small radio with stereo speakers and decent sound, plus a line-in audio input? It would ideally be a fancy clock radio. We do not allow phones in bedrooms at night, so my teenager would like something that functions as an alarm clock and also allows her to listen to the radio or music from her phone during the day. All I can find is cheap clock radios with mediocre mono sound, bluetooth speakers that don’t have radio receivers, and the Bose Wave system that is ridiculously expensive and looks terribly outdated. The Wirecutter is no help.
Cat
Would something in the iHome collection work?
Anonymous
We have had three of them and they keep breaking.
Leah
I enthusiastically recommend the Neverlate Executive Alarm Clock for this. It does everything you asked for, and also has two settings that once experienced become essential: programmable snooze length and adjustable clock face brightness.
Tessa Karlov
The Amazon Echo Dot has an alarm function and connects to Spotify. I like it because I can customize the alarm (e.g. a wake up message, song of my choice, weather report, and brief news blurb). It also has an aux cord to connect to a phone.
Anon
I recommend a Boston Acoustics clock radio. They may not be made and sold new anymore, but they pop up on eBay and have excellent sound quality. Make sure you confirm the aux in option. I have one in my bedroom without the aux in option and one in my living room with the aux in option.
Anonymous for this one
I am currently sitting here at work fuming. We have a very big client for whom we do a huge amount of subcontract work (in the construction field.) I do a great deal of work for them regarding compliance and reporting — in fact, most of my job in that aspect was for this particular client. Today, our GM is taking this client to lunch. Our AP/AR clerk is going with them. Not me. I’m not happy about this at all considering all she’s done is enter their payments into the system. I’ve done all the work, dealt with all the stress and hassle (most of these projects were government jobs with very strict compliance rules,) made her job easier since all the reporting work I’ve done ensured we received payments from them, and she gets to reap the benefits — and yes, she is the kind of person who would take credit for everyone else’s hard work. She’s notoriously lazy, complains constantly about “how hard” she has it here, yet she does everything she can to get out of doing anything that even resembles work, but she’s the office queen bee and everyone seems to bow and step for her no matter how unprofessionally she behaves.
It’s not that I’m hard up for a free lunch. That’s not the issue here. The issue is that I’ve worked my ar$e off for this client all year long. I helped the owner get things sorted out when her compliance person bailed on her. I’ve helped them deal with the prime contractor on the majority of jobs we’ve worked on to make sure we’ve had all our paperwork done and turned in properly and nobody here seems to recognize anything I’ve done. That is what I am so pi$$ed about. They know the work I’ve done — they just won’t recognize it.
Rant over. Not sure if there are any solutions other than hoping the Queen Bee gets a salad full of romaine lettuce right now….
Cat
Gah I am all over this thread procrastinating today but… did you ask the GM why you’re not part of the lunch? Remind them what a great working relationship you have with the client and that this would strengthen it?
Anon
Tell the GM that you want to join them! It’s the only way to make it right. Sometimes people are just clueless. I’m looking at you, GM.
Senior Attorney
+1
Just invite yourself along! “Hey, I’d love to come to lunch with Client since I’ve done all the XYZ work for them this year!”
Anon
The problem is not the AR person, the problem is the GM not including you. You’re taking your frustration out on the wrong person.
This is why women get a bad reputation for not being able to get along with other women at work. We fight with each other for the crumbs the patriarchy leaves us, rather than fighting the patriarchy.
Triangle Pose
“This is why women get a bad reputation for not being able to get along with other women at work. We fight with each other for the crumbs the patriarchy leaves us, rather than fighting the patriarchy.” This is an excellent insight.
Anon
+ a million
Idea
“stuff” (ok, other s-words) make me hate my male-dominated consulting firms.
Anon
Did you . . . ask if you could go to lunch?
Anonymous
Maybe they didn’t invite you because you are an angry bitter person? Ugh.
Original Moonstone
We have this, but I guess I never realized there’s no alarm. Would she/you be open to a separate clock, like one of those ones that emits light near wakeup time? We have this Insignia Audio system and its basically a knockoff Bose Wave. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-80w-audio-system-gold-black/5732541.p?skuId=5732541 It might be bigger than you want, I realize.
Anon
What is a good holiday gift for someone who is diabetic? I work closely with specialized staff at my firm for a number of my matters (think in-house contract attorneys, e-discovery specialists, senior paralegals etc.), and I usually try to gift them something during the holiday season. Since they do not technically work directly for me I feel awkward doing cash or gift cards (unlike my secretary). I had done “nice” sweets for the past few years (peppermint bark, expensive cookies etc.) but just learned that one of the staff I work a lot with is diabetic. What would be a good replacement? I’d like something that the larger teams can share, since individualized gifts would be much too labor-intensive.
Anonymous
An assortment of teas?
Maybe popcorn or pretzels?
Anon
Actually, these are both very simple carbs, and likely won’t work for those with serious diabetes.
Anonymous
Fancy teas, or trail mix (and staff member can pick out parts they don’t want to eat). Maybe one of those popcorn tins? Or just get the fancy sweets that you’ve been getting, and the staff member can make a judgment call about whether s/he wants to eat it.
Anonymous
I would look for a basket with a mix of fruit, cheese, nuts, popcorn, and maybe tea or coffee.
Anon
I mean, just google “sugar free” gift baskets or “diabetic friendly” gift baskets. Food gifts that focus on Popcorn, nuts, teas, coffee, jerky, cheese, with one or two sweet things for other workers (the diabetic won’t eat a clear candy)
Mary
As a diabetic, I’d vote for something cheese and/or meat based. Popcorn and pretzels are all carbs, so while they aren’t quite as verboten as candy, they’re not amazing, either. Tea or coffee would be lovely, too. Nuts are reasonable. They’re not carb free, but relatively low level compared to other options.
Anon
+1. Cured meats are the biggest hit with the diabetics in my office. For specific freinds and family whose taste I know, I’ve also given olves, canned fish (as in sardines), and unsweetened applesauce, but those are not as generally popular.
Lizzie
I use Outlook Tasks at work, but I’m feeling limited by it. My office doesn’t send tasks to others, so I’m not tied to it, but use it to keep track of lists, projects, to do, etc. Is there anything better out there? I’m not exactly sure what I’m looking for, but something to keep track of everything I need to do, follow up on, long term project, short term tasks, etc. I’m a litigation attorney and use a PC not a Mac, if it matters. Is there anything better out there I should be looking at?
Anonymous
This is a personal thing, so checkout screenshots to see what appeals to you.
My boss uses Wunderlist for herself. On team projects, I’ve had to use Trello and Asana, which are both popular. Trello is built around cards, and I never really figured it out. Asana is a bit old school but easy to use.
Personally, I rely heavily on a hashtag system within Workflowy. I also love TeuxDeux for daily to-do lists that’s aren’t project related (I eventually wearied of the subscription pay model, but I’m probably wrong and was just more productive when I was using it).
When I’m really trying to make myself do a thing, I’ll create a “Always on top” sticky note with a little transparency to annoy myself until I do it. I mention this mainly since you said you’re on a PC, and Zhorn Stickies is one of the three programs (along with VoidTools’ Everything and AgentRansack) that keep me using Windows.
Anonymous
Sorry for all the typos, from “check out” to “that aren’t.” Maybe they are the reason why I’m stuck in mod…
anon
Trello or Google Docs.
Anon
The poster above talking about her controlling soon to be ex (I hope!) husband reminded me of a friend of mine.
She was married in her twenties to a man who ended up developing an alcohol problem and who physically abused her a few times. They had one daughter. She ended up leaving the abusive husband for an older “white knight” kind of guy who, in my opinion, swooped in while she was vulnerable and promised to take care of her and her daughter financially forever. He placed her on such a pedestal that she couldn’t believe her luck.
And now she is basically a trophy wife. He is super controlling and even got her to enter one of those bikini fitness competitions, where all she did was work out and barely eat for months in preparation. His social media is full of photos of her in the bikini and on vacation wearing very little, and it’s all “my hot wife” or “my arm candy” kind of gloating stuff.
It’s gross. I miss my friend. I knew her from work, when she was working, but now she’s just a rich housewife with a curated social media life that seems to be aimed at letting her ex husband and his friends and allies know that she traded up.
I know she deserves a nice life after what she went through, but is it a nice life? Being treated like a piece of meat?
I don’t know what I’m asking. I hardly see her any more because she’s hanging out with other women in her situation and I’m still working. I guess people change and we move on, but I often wonder how to help her, or whether she needs help.
Lily
The thing about whether it’s a nice life –
I’m in my early 20s and was wondering this about a high school classmate. She is at most 24, has a 2 year old baby of her own, is with the dad who is 10+ years older, and she has three stepkids, the oldest of whom is about 10 years old. She is dating and lives with the dad, so that’s an improvement over the other classmate who had children even younger with a guy who couldn’t care less about her or his kids, and her boyfriend has a decent job (foreman at a construction site). She works at a strip club type place. This sounds awful to me, but maybe she’s happy? Hopefully? And hopefully she will stay happy in the future.
Anon
I know women in this situation who are miserable and feel trapped. I know women in this situation who are perfectly happy. If you can set aside judgment and be her friend so that she can talk to you if she is in the first category I would encourage you to do that. But know that she may be someone who values her physical appearance and enjoys being admired for it (or may just think the trade offs she has made are 100% worth it). And in her circumstances I would probably enjoy rubbing my ex’s nose in how much better offf I am without him.
Anonymous
It pains me to read this. Ugh. I would reach out to your friend periodically and meet up for lunch or coffee. She probably misses you.