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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
There are a handful of influencers who routinely show up on my feed modeling their latest selections in fast-fashion trends. Every once in a while, I take the bait and order something they’re selling, but I’m usually disappointed.
This shirtdress from Old Navy has been a notable exception. It does tend to wrinkle a bit, so I’d lean toward the darker colors, but it’s a perfect breezy option for those hot summer days when you want to be hanging out in a bathing suit but need to look like a real person.
The dress is $25, marked down from $49.99, at Old Navy and comes in regular sizes XS-4X, petite sizes XS-XXL, and tall sizes XS-XXL.
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Carrots
I have this dress in dark green and I love it. It feels very elevated casual, even if I’m feeling a little schlumpy.
Anon
That’s funny because I tried this dress and it was an ugly sack on me!
Anon
Yeah. The success of this dress is very body type dependent.
Anon
Years and years ago I had a very similar dress from Old Navy in linen and it was PERFECT, I wore that dress until it was a rag. I was hoping this one would be a good replacement but it was not.
anon
I never have good luck with Old Navy dresses. Such a bummer. I’m not sure which body type they’re meant for, but I know it’s not mine!
anonshmanon
I had one like this years ago, but it was shorter, hitting me above the knee. I wore that one into the ground. I think this one would not work on my short frame.
Sierra Madre, Treasure of
This dress didn’t work on me, either.
However, this one is shockingly nice: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Free-Assembly-Women-s-Belted-Utility-Dress-with-Short-Sleeves-Sizes-XS-XXL/5286817989
Nice midweight fabric, not see-thru, 100% cotton.
Anon
I have this one in navy. It’s rayon so it travels well and steams out nicely.
https://a.co/d/iuCDGQh
CK
I have that and people can’t believe it’s from Wal-Mart.
Colette
I have the maternity version of this dress in black and green and it’s great.
Can work with a blazer over it.
anon
How is the side slit? I’ve found a lot of the side slits on dresses lately to show way too much of my shorty legs
Carrots
I’m 5’7 and I think it comes to my knees (or around there) – I haven’t worn it in a while, but don’t remember it being an issue when I wear it.
Anon
Has anyone ever used TSA Cares? It seems to be for a person who may have some cognitive challenges or maybe is old, maybe primarily focused on navigating through security. It’s not a wheelchair (that is done by the airlines).
In smaller airports, security isn’t overwhelming if flying off-peak. But in the summer at a busy airport like Atlanta, I’m wondering how it works, what it helps with, and (key thing) if it works well IRL where a human has to find a person in need in a sea of people.
I’d never heard of it before last night and I’m wondering if it might be helpful for some family members who have not travelled by plane much since COVID, so are more rusty now and also older and with hearing aids (but don’t need a wheelchair).
Anon
I would never send someone with cognitive challenges through the Atlanta airport without a responsible, able-bodied relative of the same gender who could accompany her into the restrooms and onto and off of the flight. I’ve read too many horror stories of people with dementia being lost (sometimes permanently) in airports. Google it some time. I read a story years ago of a family sending a very elderly woman on a flight to see relatives. The flight was canceled, or she missed it, and she just sat in a wheelchair for a day or so at the airport. Of course they were furious with the airline, but geez-the airline is not a babysitter. They had no business putting her through that. But it is surprisingly common for elderly travelers to be lost in airports or on cruise ships or whatever. No TSA agent is going to be a decent babysitter, either. Maybe it works for a mild physical issue, but cognitive? No way.
Anon
+1 when my grandmother with dementia had to fly, my mom or her sister had to fly out and accompany her. I don’t think you can send someone with cognitive challenges through an airport alone.
For physical challenges the wheelchair is probably fine. We used one recently with my dad, who can walk but is very overweight and has knee issues and struggles with walking long distances and walking fast. It was great. I believe people in wheelchairs also skip lines, although it didn’t really apply to use since we have TSA Precheck and Global Entry and didn’t really have to wait on any lines anyway.
Anon
What if they are just hard of hearing? Apparently even hearing aids aren’t great because airports have so many announcements and it’s hard to discern them in a noisy environment. Or the scrum of the active TSA checkpoint and banging bins, etc.
Anon
If they’re just hard of hearing I wouldn’t worry too much. You don’t really need to hear announcements these days since everything comes as an automated text from the airline. TSA agents are normally pretty kind and helpful, especially with elderly folks who move slowly.
Anon
Oh, that’s a good point. If you are like me, my grandparents don’t really use cell phones and don’t text.
It’s too bad you can’t accompany people to the gate like you could decades ago. It seems to be you buy a ticket and fly with them or hope that strangers will be kind and attentive. I’d never trust it to work with anything but a direct flight.
Anon
Just FYI, you can get a gate pass to accompany someone who needs help getting to the gate. The airlines issue them at the check-in desk. It may be available on the pick-up end also if you have someone meeting her, but I don’t know for sure about that.
Anonymous
(Not answering the Q because I’ve never used TSA Cares but I will say that the TSA has been amazing with my autistic child — very accommodating and understanding; I feel like they’ve even let me skip lines a few times when the checkmark lane was very long.)
Anon
Is that just by luck if you say your child is autistic or do put a sunflower lanyard on your child?
Anonymous
Does anyone know if the sunflower lanyards work? (Esp as a high masking academic who is often traveling for big important conferences)
ABanon
Would someone tell me more about this? I’ve seen them worn, but how are the sunflower lanyards supposed to work ideally? Like the staff will see them & know you might need extra assistance? How do they know what that help should be? Is it an airline policy or something autism supporters have decided independently to do for public events?
Anonymous
replying to 11:17 – a lot of the “i’m autistic!” signifiers are for helpers in case of an accident or extreme circumstance. if kid were to be separated from parents, if a staffer sees a kid wandering around looking lost AND wearing a sunflower lanyard, the response might be different than with just a regular kid.
if you have a 6’2 15 year old son, people might expect him to help or respond in certain ways that your autistic, 6’2″ 15-yr-old will not do. if your same 6’2″ son is freaking out and having a meltdown and police are called, the hope is that police will deal with an autistic person differently even if it appears that there’s a threat of bodily injury. autism can look like a head injury or a volatile, dangerous person.
RIP Elijah McCain – different circumstances and I don’t think his family has publicly said he was autistic, but my heart hurts for the way police treated him in that interaction and it is in my thoughts frequently as my son gets older.
Anon
That’s good to hear. In Europe most airports have special lines for families with kids under the age of 6 or so. I wish the US would do that.
Anonymous
no sunflower lanyard, just asking nicely – but you can tell if you just watch him for a few seconds.
BeenThatGuy
I’ve had the same experience travelling with my teen niece who has crippling anxiety. TSA can see it all over her face and in her body language. They have always been accommodating.
anon
I am afraid that an autistic child or one with extreme anxiety who is black or middle eastern would not get the same kindness. We know that people assume black children are much older than they are.
80s kid stranger danger
Yeah I could sadly see a sunflower lanyard or similar known signifier making someone a target for a heartless predator looking for an easy victim – like a mugging or worse
Risked Credit
I agree with this. I have nothing but positive things to say about my children traveling in the US. TSA are brilliant. Whoever oversaw the training nationally did a great job. If one of my autistic children are having a really bad day I get assistance and I try to stick to flying with United because if one child is having a really bad day we are not flying and United are great with changing flights last minute with no charge. I really appreciate that.
For anyone traveling with a neurodiverse child, my recommendation is to avoid SAS and Manchester airport in the UK. SAS were consistently awful with seating arrangements, moving us from business to economy and putting us next to the toilets.
Manchester airport is unbelievable and a two hour timeframe to get through security is standard no matter what time of day you travel. Sometimes its 3 hours. I was accused of throwing a stroller at the agent and the supervisor and police surrounded me about to arrest me, asked for my passport. I gave them my American passport, asked for them to call my embassy for legal assistance and provide them with the security footage and they backed off immediately. I was on my own with three young children, no assistance was available despite booking it in advance and the staff were incredibly awful with one staff member calling me a posh bi*ch. Another time I had a very new baby in a pouch going through security. A female agent came over, immediately started touching my child and trying to remove her from the pouch. I stopped her and she said I was being unnecessarily aggressive. You do not touch a 12 week old baby without permission from the parent and I stopped her from taking my child out of the pouch as I hadn’t been asked if she could touch let alone hold the baby. Each year there is a celebrity who ends up in court because of an incident at the airport and their version of events differs significantly to what staff say happened. After my experience I do not believe the staff at all. Best avoided.
Stansted is just as busy and our experience has been way better. Heathrow is very busy and its confusing for my children. United had a flight to Birmingham which was great as the airport is fantastic. The train station is right there for the airport and the staff are TSA like, which is great.
Surprisingly Ryanair worked well as they have very clear and straight forward rules. My son liked that. Helpful because now they are the only airline travelling certain routes from England to Scandinavia.
The lanyard thing doesn’t work because my autistic kids are sensitive to something swinging from their neck. My youngest who isn’t autistic likes to wear it, attached her sisters camera to it so it works really well at making people aware but in Europe people are mean and in the US no one knows what it means! The TSA agents see the behavior and recognize it immediately. In Europe they just haven’t had the training as travel still seems to be geared towards business and retiree travelers.
Colette
I’ve used it for my mother in law who has early stage Alzheimer’s and had to take a direct international flight unaccompanied.
To have full assistance all the way through you need to contact the departure airport, TSA Cares, and then the arrival airport separately.
She was escorted through security and customs and left in a wheel chair by her gate. Then she was escorted on the plane and then off the plane and through arrivals, baggage claim. The helper stayed with her until she was picked up.
It would not work if they would wander away from
the gate once there or if they cannot follow safety instructions once on the plane.
Anon
Thanks for sharing. Is there a cost? Did you tip at each leg of assistance?
Colette
It was free and we did not tip.
It was a very good experience.
Anon
Currently wearing this dress (the maternity version) today! Absolutely love it and I get so many compliments.
Anon
What is your shape generally? Old Navy dresses for me are either a 0 or a 100 and never in between.
Anon
I am naturally curvy & 5’4, usually a size small or medium at Old Navy when I am not pregnant. I ordered the size medium in the maternity version and it fits great.
Anonymous
question i saw elsewhere that might be fun here: what have you lost your taste for as you’ve aged?
for me (late 40s): people! i’m much more of an introvert than i used to be, although that might be because i’m surrounded by my kids all the time. i’m also much more ok with silence than i ever was.
Anon
Drama in real life.
Anon
+1 to this. I do not have the energy or the patience to deal with unneccesary drama, I’ve got enough on my plate with work, parenting, my health stuff, and aging parent stuff.
New Here
I (mostly) joke that I want no part in any drama…but I want to know the details. Its a bad trait/habit, I know. But I’m nosey.
Anon
See the NYT post below!
Sierra Madre, Treasure of
Me too. I used to do a fitness class with this group of women who all worked at the same place. I loooooved hearing their work drama in the locker room. Had me hating on people I’d never even met.
Risked Credit
+1
In getting divorced the drama in my life outside of my ex husband has completely disappeared. Its amazing. Then he resurfaces with the drama. The stark contrast highlights just how exhausting I find his drama.
Anon
My H becoming an exH was the decisive factor in eliminating drama from my daily life. He was exhausting to be around.
Anon
Truth. I lost a friendship with a very dramatic friend (she ended it in a dramatic fit!) but I find myself relieved now.
Peloton
Heels.
Anon
Heels for me too!
Also designer handbags and clothing in general. I didn’t spend four figures on bags in my 20s, but I bought quite a few bags at the Coach/Kate Spade/Michael Kors level, which is crazy to me now. $300 is a domestic plane ticket, and I’d much rather travel.
Anon
+2 on heels and also handbags. I still feel a tug at the heart when I see a nice leather purse, but then I remember all of the purses I bought and then discarded in my 20s and 30s and I’m just not doing that to my wallet ever again. No one cares about my purse, especially me.
Anon
Definitely heels or any uncomfortable shoe.
txatty
heels are the big one for me. Once I got out of the habit of wearing them, now I can’t seem to get back in the habit. I been trying to wear them sometimes again recently and it feels like I lost a muscle or something
Anonymous
i think you did lose a muscle! this is my problem. i know i COULD get back to wearing them if i really wanted to, but… who tf cares that much
Anon
At some point my big toe in one foot stopped being able to accommodate four inch heels. It feels like I broke it in the wrong heel, but I haven’t felt anything to tell me this outside of this particular shoe experience.
Anon
This is reminding me… back in the aughts, I used to really dress up for work. Everyone did. I wore ladylike suits and heels pretty much every day.
My family and I went on a vacation to a river/mountain kind of place and I wore flat sandals or flip flops every day for a week. My work bestie, who dressed just like I did, came and met me in a little town near our vacation place on the last day of vacation, and I ran up to her in my flip flops and said “I don’t have any blisters on my feet!”
Yes, I did go back to wearing heels, because I do not have a brain in my head, apparently.
Gail the Goldfish
Also heels, though that may have been more a victim of the pandemic than aging. I’ve got boxes of lovely heels I used to wear to work just sitting in my closet. Debating if I get rid of them or keep them, especially the ones that aren’t terribly versatile.
Anon
Yes for sure.
edj3
Yes, heels.
I broke my foot training for a marathon 4 years ago and that was the end of heels in my life. (And I didn’t get to run that marathon either :( )
Anon
I also broke my foot except I don’t know how. That was the end of heels for me, and I still have to figure out what to do with my huge collection of them.
Anon
This for sure! I don’t even own a single pair of pumps any more and my only 2” heels belong to a pair of platform lug sole boots. My feet are so happy now.
Senior Attorney
Yup. I wore sky-high heels every day for more than 30 years and now I look back and shake my head in wonderment. It’s not even that my feet hurt all day every day, although they did. It was that I couldn’t walk more than a few steps and couldn’t keep up with the men. No thank you.
Anon
Staying up late. Good sleep is so important to my physical & mental health. If that means saying no to socializing, so be it.
anon
Right there with you. I don’t bounce back quickly from being up late, which makes the next day pretty miserable. I feel hungover even if I didn’t have a drop of alcohol.
emeralds
This is mine. I want to be in bed by 10pm, not out at a bar.
Anon
This is theoretically me but it’s not realistically me. I can’t seem to force myself to go to sleep earlier.
Vicky Austin
Same.
anon
Sweets and alcohol.
Anonymous
Alcohol for sure. My middle age body rebels and punishes me with migraine even at a thought of alcohol. I miss the ceremony part of a good glass of wine (the nice glass, the aroma) and am very happy with the current mocktail moment
anon for this
Loud music. I still love music, but I need it at a reasonable volume!
Sloppy drunks.
Pot-stirrers at work who live for drama .
New Here
Staying up late, though I have never been a night owl.
Drinking until drunk. 2 drinks is my max, and lately, since I’ve started a GLP-1, I have no desire at all.
Fake friends. Quality>Quantity
Big get togethers/parties that are a lot of hanging out and drinking until the late hours. My husband likes to do this with some hobby-friends and I just can’t. I’d rather spend a shorter amount of time with a couple of close friends.
Anon
I’ve lost my taste for going to the movies. It’s too expensive, I get irritated when other people use their phones or talk, and if you don’t like the movie it’s awkward to get up and leave. I prefer to watch movies at home in my pajamas with my husband and my cat.
I also haven’t had a drink in over a year and before that, I only drank every few months at most. I don’t know how I drank as much as I did in college and got away with it, but I certainly wouldn’t now.
Anon
Oh interesting. I never had much interest in the movies when I was younger. I’d go when groups of friends were going to be social, but it wasn’t my thing. But I LOVE going to the movies now that I’m a nearly 40 year old mom. Maybe because it’s quiet and dark and I don’t have to talk to anyone, lol.
Anonymous
i used to LOVE movies particularly rom coms — now rom coms suck and i have very little taste for tv or movies at all and prefer reading books. i read a NYT story yesterday about a david bowie movie from the 90s that they’re rereleasing and the words “quirky little movie” made me realize how much we’ve lost due to the MCU and the algorithm dominating movie choices. bah.
Anon
That is the saddest thing I’ve read in ages. People are wonderful and having strong relationships keeps your life rich. I hope you’re just going through a phase.
Anon
You….. sound young!
Anon
That’s such a general statement “people are wonderful.” They *can* be, but no, as a species, we can also be self absorbed and hurtful. I can completely understand why a person might be done w humanity at large. Not to be a “mean” commenter, because it’s not my intent, but this post seems to border on toxic positivity.
anon
I felt the same way. I have close relationships. I don’t need tons of friends and a huge social circle that I can’t really keep up with anyway.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
i don’t think you understand what introvert means? introverts can have strong relationships with friends and family yet zero patience for chitchat with the neighbors.
anon
Confirmed. I am an introvert. I have deep, close relationships with people. But small talk? I hate it. And I’m frankly NOT that interested in every random person I meet.
Anon
OP literally said “People!” as the answer to her own question.
Anonymous
People are wonderful if you’re able bodied, neurotypical and extroverted.
Anon
Don’t forget attractive with no needs whatsoever.
Anon
That sums it up so well.
Anon
So well put.
Anon
Right?? And everybody here is always wondering why their friends ditch them.
Anon
I was never all that into any of these things, but I’ve completely lost all interest in alcohol, sun, or noise. Give me a nice cloudy day in the woods or reading inside with a cup of tea over a sunny beach and cocktails any day!
Anon
yes to the sun. I cringe thinking of going to the beach at mid day in a bikini in my 20s. Nowadays I’m in a rashguard and giant hat and in the shade as much as possible.
Anon
Haha, I’m mid 40s and grew up at the beach. The sun is non negotiable for me, especially now that I’m 4 hours away from the nearest beach. I’ve made my peace with whatever happens to my skin, because I know during the darkest days of winter or during a prolonged rain event, I’m at my emotional worst. My red light therapy machine has helped somewhat.
Anon
Same. I wear sunscreen religiously but have accepted that my skin will age a bit faster in service to my emotional health. Cannot handle SAD lamps; they create massive mood swings.
Anon
I still really enjoy the beach (we go to the Caribbean twice a year) I just cover up a lot more even if it looks dumb.
Anon
Please get annual skin cancer checks tho.
Anon
Sun-needing commenter: I saw a derm about a year ago (the appointment was nearly impossible to get) and he said that yearly checks were no longer recommended and that I should wear sunblock (I generally don’t and he know this) and come back in a few years. I wonder if this is a broader change in recommendations or just specific to the region I’m in.
Anon
I get yearly checks – my excellent derm has never said that, and she’s faculty at a medical school.
My husband had a melanoma removed in his late forties. It looked like nothing. Thankfully the dermatologist caught it while it was still in situ, and she did so at his annual skin cancer check.
anon
I got some bad burns as a child and am still supposed to get my skin check annually. I was told those childhood burns increase cancer risk a lot even if my habits are exemplary today.
anon
You can’t generalize on skin check frequency. It depends on your family history of cancer, your other medical problems, type of skin, frequency of sun burns as a child and more. You need to see a good derm, and follow their recs.
anon
I have a lot on my plate in this stage of life (early 40s). I just don’t have much mental bandwidth for activities or people that I’m iffy about. I’m somewhat concerned that this is becoming a problem and that I’m limiting myself too much, but I also am trying to keep my anxiety and overwhelm under control.
anon
This. In my early 40s, I have an intense career, family and friends who I see less than I want to. If it’s not a YES then it’s a no. And a lot of the time, i’d rather be home with my partner than out for an activity that i’m not excited about.
Anonymous
Alcohol
Anon
+1 And I used to be a fairly regular, sometimes excessive, social drinker.
Anon
Early 40s and I’m completely over people who can’t get their acts together, especially those who think their dysfunction is cute or amusing and/or put their dysfunction onto other people.
People who lack the basic humility to know the limits of what they know and don’t know. I have a former friend who snottily told me that I needed therapy and meds; it couldn’t be that my marriage was toxic and she knows this because she spent an entire afternoon with us! As N Sync says, bye bye bye.
People who don’t stay in their lane. Probably related to the above.
anon
Totally with you on the people who don’t have their acts together. It’s not cute and makes me think less of you.
Anon
It’s not even economic/career related, really. It’s about seeing problems coming down the road and affirmatively working to avoid them.
Anon
It sounds like you want to judge other people’s dysfunction but are also sensitive if someone judges you.
Anon
I have found that dysfunctional people often drag others into their dysfunction. They see it as “normal” and therefore, people who do things differently as broken or wrong.
Anon
I’ve lost my taste for hanging out with people who have a “stuck” mindset and don’t believe they can change anything for the better, for themselves or society. Their actions don’t matter, what’s the point, it’s someone else’s fault…
Anonymous
+1. Sad sack people. By no means am I a toxic positivity person but I’ve also realized that my family of origin’s view – nothing can ever be changed, it is what it is, life is drudgery – are unhealthy and incorrect. I mean don’t get me wrong, there are people in very bad situations that are simply bad luck and I do feel bad about that. I’m talking about the ivy league grad with every advantage who hates their job and will complain about how they can’t stay in this job for 20 more years but then anything you suggest – oh I can’t do that, they wouldn’t hire me, that certification exam is super hard, I can’t possibly take a day off or slack off at work at bit, I can’t even consider my own business and on and on. Ok then good luck.
Anon
Totally – it’s not about toxic positivity at all (and in fact, I’m still a bit mad at the family “friend” who said “you’ve gotta stay positive, you can’t give in to the negativity if you want to beat this” to my loved one on hospice who died of cancer three days later), but overall, there are a lot of people with every advantage and every choice who feel and act very, very stuck.
Anonymous
Lately I’ve noticed it’s people who are well off too. I know them well enough that over the years they’ve dropped in conversation that they have hit a million or two in net worth or hit a million in retirement or whatever. I understand risk aversion and all but I don’t understand someone with all the degrees who is also sitting on a million plus in retirement in their 40s being unwilling to take any chance that could make them happier. And I simply don’t have a ton of patience for it.
Anon
To me, it’s about embodying the Serenity Prayer: to understand that which you can change, and therefore do change, and that which you cannot, and therefore, don’t waste your energy on trying to fix.
Anon
Internal vs external locus of control. Same here.
anon
One-way relationships. In my teens and 20s, I developed a lot of friendships that were really negative and I felt like I was always doing more or cared more than that person cared for me. Over time, I realized that’s because my family treated me similarly. I’ve dropped relationships with half of my family (my dad and his side, my brother) and it almost feels like they’ve forgotten about me because they didn’t make an effort either. I make a lot less effort with my mom and she complains but then doesn’t really try to be closer either.
It hurt for awhile but I’ve mostly gotten over it and spend my time on relationships with people who care about me and are interested in my life, and whom I care about and will be interested in as well.
Anon
+1. I have a close family member (a cousin) who really struggles to grasp the fact that I’m not investing time in relationships with our distant uncles when they have literally never shown a scrap of interest in my life. She’ll be all “but it was so nice to have Christmas at Grandma’s house” and it’s like yes, but that was in 2002 and I haven’t heard from him since then, including when I sent cards or emails. I’m NOT investing time in one-sided relationships – there has to be reciprocity and Uncle Joe knows where to find me if he wants to rekindle a family relationship.
anon
100%
And going out. I used to love a good party (so much so that a friend from college said, wasn’t your main hobby going to bars?!) I am a total homebody now. I work remote, rarely go out, and LOVE it.
I’m also losing my foodiness. It’s impressive. I used to love to try new restaurants and go out. Now I’m totally fine with anything from Costco.
Like OP I’m surrounded by kids. I find it very fulfilling.
anon
I feel like the dining experience overall has been expensive and not all that impressive for a while now. There aren’t many restaurant meals I’m enjoying THAT much more than what I cook at home.
Anon
I’m a good home cook and I border great sometimes. Paying $200 (for two) for something I could make myself but better doesn’t do it for me anymore.
anon
+1000
Anon
This is a big one. I love cooking, I enjoy cooking shows, and good food, and good ingredients. What I don’t have patience for is fighting for reservations, being condescended to by hostesses, bad service when I’m paying top dollar, or ‘meh’ food that is more gimmick that actually good. Unfortunately many ‘foodie’ places are now almost entirely catering to TikTok influencers vs. actual patrons.
Anon
Agree. I find most restaurant meals are worse than what I can cook at home, too expensive, the food is often cold, etc. I love good food but find that most restaurants are just.. not great anymore.
Anonymous
Not something I’ve lost my taste for, but I no longer feel obligated to finish entertainment that I don’t enjoy. If I don’t like a movie or a TV show, I turn it off. If I don’t like a novel I’ve started, I put it down.
Anon
I have put down so many books recently. And I turned off the tv about 45 minutes into that Meg Ryan David Duchovny movie at an airport. If anything ever happened in that movie, it came along way too late for me.
Anonymous
I’m 50. I’ve lost my willingness to pull late nighters for work deadlines–in fact, I can’t even fathom how I used to do what I did earlier in my career. I also am a lot less likely to return after hours IMs or texts–I will first weigh whether the issue is more important than training you not to contact me at non-work hours. I also have found I can’t eat some foods or drink alcohol the way I used to–the thought of a beer literally makes me gag a bit. I also can’t recall how I used to be so carefree about staying over at someone’s house. I use a CPAP and listen to my shows before bed and value bathroom privacy. I’m like night and day from the person that would sleep on someone’s couch during college (or host someone doing the same). I miss feeling as physically strong as I used to be–I worry about injury a lot more now. Changes for the good–I think I’m more open-minded in that I recognize nuance in situations more than when I was younger (few people or circumstances are all good or all bad). I value experiences a lot more. When I’m with people, I’m a lot more present than I used to be. I recognize the time matters in a way I don’t think I used to.
anon
Yes, these are all wise things.
Trish
The loud music and heels are due to age so its not that I don’t have a taste for them – I just cannot with them anymore. But I used to love weird sicko movies like Blue Velvet. Now, I refuse to watch anything weird like the Black Mirror. I prefer fluff or regular action movies and shows.
anon for this
ohhh this is a good one. I’ve definitely lost my taste for true crime — the world is so terrible in so many ways, I don’t want to spend my leisure time that way. And I cannot handle anything with dead or missing children since having my own.
Anon
Skirts and dresses. I have finally become a dedicated pants wearer after years of dresses and skirts even on the weekends. I basically got sick of leg maintenance – shaving, fake tan lotion, etc – and most of all, wearing under-dress shorts. I’m over it.
Anon
Just the opposite! I’ve completely given up on pants and shorts. Only dressed and skirts jn my life now. So funny.
That said, I shave my legs once a week and that’s as much maintenance as I put towards it. In the winter I wear tights.
anon
Same. Finally admitted that jeans are uncomfortable. And pants in general — no; I don’t care what’s “on trend.” They don’t flatter me or show off my best features and they too are uncomfortable. Dresses are easy, cool, and flattering. The trend can wait to catch up with me. Or not.
anon
And this is why I continue on in my quest to find great pants, even though my body type doesn’t make it easy!
Anon
Jeans. Give me a skirt, dress, or loose trouser and I’ll be happy.
Anon for this
I need help with a work situation. A peer has been making unfounded complaints about me. Without getting too specific, an example would be that he got upset when he asked me for a report and I told him he would need to go to my colleague who handles that report. He’s escalated this and similarly mundane issues to my manager, who wants me to ignore it. I’m having trouble doing that as he continues to complain and also has started being combative with me in our interactions. A trusted colleague told me he’s done this before (to other women), and wasn’t hopeful it would be stopped before I become collateral damage. What do I do? I like my company and don’t want to leave over this.
Anon
How is him getting upset a complainable issue? That sounds like a him problem. Shocking that he brings this to HR. I don’t live HR but would need a stronger RBF to deal with things like this. He he known as a drama llama?
Anon
I would proactively bring this up with your manager and start documenting everything. I don’t think you need to go scorched earth with the manager just yet, but make sure that your perspective is heard for now and that everything is written down in your records. Phrases like “this is making it challenging for me to do my job efficiently” can be helpful.
Anon
This exactly. Document and make sure your manager has your back.
Anon
There’s always someone like this at work, and if your manager said to ignore it then they know he’s the problem not you. Just take that advice and keep manager looped in when he gets upset so she has your back.
Anon
I’d ignore the complaining, especially if your manager knows it’s a ‘him’ issue. However if he’s getting combative with you that’s something to document and escalate to both your manager and HR. I don’t particularly care if a same level colleague doesn’t like that I’m not doing their job for them but you don’t get to be rude, snide, yell, or otherwise act like a toddler at work and a good company with a solid HR will be on your side.
I know people dislike ask a manager but she’s got good scripts for how to document this that make it about his behavior and not your reaction (less, ‘he’s rude to me’ and more ‘he is witholding information/derailing meetings which is making it hard to get work done on time’).
NYNY
Are your interactions with this man generally in person or electronic? Because you probably need to make sure that others are seeing his behavior while making it apparent that you are being reasonable and professional. If the combative behavior is over email or messaging, tag in both your manager and his, ideally after giving your manager the heads up that you’ll be doing that to ensure a paper trail. If in person, then try to make sure that someone else is always there when you speak. It’s BS that he’s allowed to harass you, and it’s BS that you have to manage that, but be smart in dealing with him so if there’s collateral damage, it isn’t to you.
Anon for this
He is too smart to do this in writing. He always calls me.
Anonymous
Don’t answer. Call him back via zoom or slack and add a Fireflies to it. That way you have a record.
NYNY
This. And if that isn’t an option, always follow up his calls with an email recap, cc’ing your managers. Part of what you need to do is show him he can’t bully you. I’m really sorry you have to deal with this.
ABanon
Perhaps even do this with permission from your manager. For example, limit him to email communication between you — it can be communicated to him as something being done in response to his complaints to ensure there’s no more miscommunications, to see if coaching is needed, etc. Surely he’d be glad to do this for “his benefit” lol.
Anon
This is how I would do it, even if it’s not a formal directive from above. Just start emailing him after every interaction, whether to simply confirm (and document) what you talked about or to provide the correct route for obtaining his report. Maybe even stop telling him in-person, but tell him you will research his question and email him the response. “Jimbob, You asked for the CYA report this morning. I confirmed Alex handles that account; I’m sure if you reach out to them directly they can assist you.”
Nesprin
This is where the followup email is so crucial:
He calls you to ask for something, you respond with an email afterwards to create a paper trail.
“Just to follow up, you were asking for the sales document. Wanted to make sure you had Suzy’s email – she handles these now. Let me know if you were asking for something else or if you have any other questions!”
Celia
Why leave the door open for more questions? Just say “To reiterate, Suzy handles that report, not me. Thanks.”
Nesprin
You leave the door open to get the quiet assent from the other person that you weren’t wrong as they didn’t correct you, and so that you have plausible deniability that you’ve checked that you weren’t missing something, or being abrupt or hostile.
Anon
With toxic people, make them do the work of saying you’re wrong. They can’t twist it into “Nesprin thinks that she didn’t understand – look where she wrote it!” Be confident and succinct.
Anon
I wonder if your colleague is my former manager. It’s eerie how many similarities there are.
anon
I’m toying with the idea of downsizing our 2020 family minivan. We have two kids, ages 9 and 14. Although having the extra room has been handy at times, I’m getting tired of driving a giant car around town. If we carpool, it’s usually with only one or two additional kids.
Our other car is a 2013 Subaru Outback. It’s not exciting, but it’s in good shape and it’s what we plan to have our 14-year-old learn to drive with. So maybe it’s a dumb idea to replace the minivan since we’ll probably need to buy another car for my DH in the next year or two.
If you’ve downsized from a minivan to something else, what car did you end up with? It seems like the standard route is to go from a Honda Odyssey to a Honda Pilot, lol. I’m open to either a smaller SUV or even a sedan, though that would be somewhat limiting in terms of size. We have used the van to haul a lot of stuff.
Anon
A minivan is probably the most useful vehicle a family in the US can own. Provided finances and space allows, I’d keep that and buy the smaller runabout (Miata? :-) ) in a couple years when you get a car for your DH and that can be yours’s and his fun car that the kids don’t touch.
Anon
I’ve never felt like a minivan would make my life easier, and the majority of people I know with 1-2 kids don’t drive one. In my experience it’s something people normally get when they have the third kid. Assuming OP isn’t planning to expand her family, I think she’d be totally fine downsizing to a normal sedan or compact SUV.
Anon
I’m single, and you’ll pry my minivan from my cold, dead hands. It does what a simple pickup truck from the 80s did, but even better, because the floor height is lower and the cargo space is enclosed. If I want to haul passengers, I can throw a couple seats in. If I need to take my dogs somewhere, a crate fits nicely. If I’m by myself, the fuel economy isn’t great but is okay. I wish fuel efficient small (truly small!) pickups were a thing in the US, but they’re not. Same with non-luxury wagons.
Anon
Never gone the minivan route; I drive a Volvo station wagon. A lot of modern wagons are quite fun to drive; they have a decent amount of power and good maneuverability. Of course, the trunk space is great and the ability to fold down the seats is quite nice.
Anon
Same here. Had to check whether I wrote this! I have a 2015 XC70 that I will drive into the ground.
Anon
I mourn my Honda Odyssey. I have a smaller SUV now, which makes sense because I no longer need the third row of seats. I so miss my minivan for the ability to haul my empty trash cans up my drive, toss my bike in the back to get to the trail, pick up that Facebook Marketplace find. I vote to keep the minivan. Also, consider whether your minivan would be better for a new driver. It likely has better safety features because it is 7 years newer than your Suburu, the beginning and end of a minivan require no guesswork or experience (unlike an SUV which has a bit of guesswork in the front), and it is so uncool that there is no point in trying to be a showoff for friends.
anon
I would definitely miss the hauling capacity of the van. We also have used it to haul bikes, lumber and oversized things, and it can’t be beat for family roadtrips. IDK, maybe I’ve just spent too much time in my car this summer.
anon
Is your 14 year old a girl and is she small? I have a forester and a crosstrek and the outback was really uncomfortable for me to drive. I’m 5’2.
Anon
As a short person the car is so important! Sedans just aren’t comfortable and I feel like I can barely see. I’ve concluded they simply don’t work for me after years of cr-ppy rental car experience during business travel. The Honda CR-V and Ford Escape crossovers are great for petite women.
Anonymous
If you take road trips, take kids to summer camp, travel with a dog, etc., I’d keep the minivan. We have one teenager and a Prius and it was a very tight squeeze to fit her camp stuff plus overnight bags for the parents. If we had two kids or brought the dog with us we’d never fit into the Prius for a road trip. An Outback hauls more than a Prius but not that much more. We are renting a minivan to drive the kid and her stuff 1,500 miles to college next month.
Anon
Moving kids to college definitely requires a mini van, truck, or large SUV!
Anon
You know you can rent those – you don’t have to own & drive a giant car you only actually need once a year.
Anon
+1 and for moving kids to college you only need it in a few times in a lifetime, not even once a year!
Anonymous
Twice at least. I wouldn’t buy a giant car just for this purpose, but I wouldn’t get rid of one I already had either.
Anon
Twice at least. I wouldn’t buy a giant car just for this purpose, but I wouldn’t get rid of one I already had either.
Anonymous
I love my CRV but it seats 5 at most, which sounds like it might be a dealbreaker for the OP.
Anon
She has two kids. A 5 seater is fine. I’ve never driven a car that can seat more than 5 and my kids are in their twenties now.
Anon
+1 I have two kids and have never once felt like our 5 seater is too small. It fits our entire family + a kid’s friend, or me and three kids. Also OP’s oldest kid is 14 and can sit in the front seat, so OP could actually drive 4 kids.
anon
Hi! I am the person to answer this post. I’ve been wrangling with this decision myself for the past month when our Odyssey started making funny noises (transmission) and was close to hitting 100k. I test drove and read a millions reviews. So here is what I found:
– I’ll skip to the punchline to answer your question. I ended up with an Acura MDX which I had never even heard of before I started on this journey. It’s the right set of features for our family (3 kids, elementary age), we wanted rear entertainment (a bizarre quirk of my family, Yes we know tablets exist but my kids love a good dvd), reasonable maintenance, reasonable gas mileage. It is considered a midsize “luxury” suv, but it’s not really luxury. The price is affordable and the amenities are minimal but it’s very comfortable. Acura is the related brand to Honda, so it’s basically a more streamlined version of a Pilot. I am about to go pick it up this afternoon.
– Odyssey to Pilot is a standard route and a lot of people love their Pilots. Most of our friends went this route. I just did not prefer the boxy look of the new Pilots.
– Look into midsize or small SUVs or crossovers. That’s basically the type of vehicle you seem to be searching for. Highlander, Telluride, Jeeps in this class were all very nice.
– To me a Honda Odyssey did not feel big. There will be “midsize” SUVs that feel larger.
– Vehicles get redesigned based on the year, so different years will look and drive significantly differently. This is happening in a big way. Eg the new Traverse (starting 2024) is basically a mini Tahoe. The Tahoe got 12 more inches or something in 2021(?) so now drives like a boat to me. I had a Tahoe before the redesign and was surprised at how much bigger the new one felt. I don’t think you’ll like any of the Tahoes because you’re trying to downsize from the Odyssey.
– The Mercedes and Lexus SUVs were nice but I was shocked at how expensive the maintenance has become and they felt more sporty and less comfy to me.
– Let your price point guide you. I was surprised at how affordable some “luxury” vehicles had become, and how crazy expensive some that were not had become.
– The biggest positive surprise for me in the search was how drivable and comfortable the new Chevy Traverse was. The biggest negative surprise was the cost of maintenance for the Mercedes GLS.
Meredith
I downsized from the Odyssey to the CR-V and have been ver pleased.
Trixie
Keep the minivan! I drove two odyssey mini vans, back to back, and now almost 10 years later, I still miss it. it is so comfortable, the seats are very versatile, it can carry kids and sports gear, deliver kids to camps and college or schools, and carry furniture and bags of mulch. it will be a good car for your children to learn to drive on. I transitioned to a CRV, but honestly, it was not big enough for us. When we were all together, which is rare, we could not fit 4 adults and 4 suitcases and our dog in the car. I now drive a Toyota Highlander, but in many ways the odyssey was better. It is easier to load up, the seats fold flat or pull out easily, and the captain’s chairs style seating are great. Also, the Odyssey now comes in a hybrid, if that appeals to you, for your next car. And if you look at cars on the highway, I have been surprised to see that the Odyssey does not look big next to many other cars.
Anonymous
random question: if you purchase hangers for men in your life, which ones are you getting? the velvet ones i have for myself seem too delicate and feminine. wooden ones? plastic ones?
Anon
Is this a real question?
Anonymous
yes! men’s shirts are wider than women’s and i feel like my husband and teen are more likely to grab shirt and yank, vs my narrower shoulders and taking clothes off the hanger more delicately. we’ve just been using any non-wire hangers than come with clothes and the ones i’ve had for 30 years and i wanted something uniform since i’m setting up my kid’s closet.
thx for the answers, just ordering the 100 box of wooden ones from amazon.
Anon
Ok, that makes more sense than worrying if the hangers are too “feminine.” Come on.
Anon
My husband uses the black velvet hangers I got for his dress shirts and pants. For blazers/suit jackets he has thicker wooden hangers as the padding in the shoulders needs the extra support.
Peloton
I’m going to skate by the weird gender norms you’re applying to hangers. Just buy whatever looks well reviewed, is appropriate for what you’re trying to hang, and is in your budget—this is not something that requires more than 5 minutes of thought.
Anon
Yup. Don’t often agree with Peloton, but this. You’re way way over thinking.
And wtf is up with gendering hangers?
Peloton
Thanks for letting me know this comment passed muster with you!
Peloton
Wood suit hangers really are superior to plastic suit hangers for men’s suits. But otherwise, this is one of those “find a cheap but good enough options” things!
Anon
Is your husband’s masculinity so fragile that he can’t use velvet hangers?
Anon
This!
Anon
Good grief, my husband hates the velvet hangers because they aren’t sized right for his clothes and he has more cotton stuff that doesn’t hang right on them. He prefers plastic and wood hangers. I prefer the velvet one because my stuff is more slippery – silk blouses, etc. it’s not always some war.
Anon
Ok say they don’t fit right then rather then saying they’re too feminine. A hanger isn’t gendered!!!
Anon
I’m not the original commenter?
Anon
But we have to be MAD about SOMETHING !!!1!4!!!?!!1!
Anon
In France they are.
Anon
I hate velvet hangers too. I like the clear plastic ones I found on Amazon. They also have glitter embedded into them so they also cheer me up.
Anonymous
The velvet hangers are gross dustcatchers. My husband and I both use wooden hangers and the thick wire hangers from Bend & Hook.
Anon
That was my reaction.
Anon
Wooden ones from target in the box. Velvet hangers are too small for his shirts
Anon
We buy boxes of velvet hangers and I dole them out to all our bedroom closets and the coat closet (in addition to my husband, I have three boys!). They are so functional — thinner than wood, grippier/better fitted to clothes than plastic. We still have an assortment of plastic mixed in, but going forward I buy velvet. Maybe if I had tons of space I’d buy wooden
Anon
Why can’t he buy his own hangers?
Hangers do not deserve more than 1 minute of thought.
Since when are velvet hangers feminine? Even if they are, no one is looking in your closet!
Anon
Oh if you have limited closet space, you’ll give a lot more than a minute of thought to hangers.
Anon
Right! I used to love my wooden hangers until a new house and a new (smaller) closet made them an unrealistic choice.
Anon
If I shared a closet with my husband, I’d get all the hangers to match. FWIW, my husband’s clothes fit fine on velvet hangers. If I didn’t share a closet, I’d have no involvement in his hanger procurement.
Anon
Yeah, I buy my hangers, my husband buys his. If one of us runs out and needs one, we grab it from the other’s closet. I’m not devoting any mental energy to hangers. I like mine to match, so I buy black plastic ones in bulk.
Anon
My husband has broken about 10 of the velvety ones I got from Costco. In the same time I have managed to break 1.
Anon
I think if our hangers did not break, my husband would end up ripping either the article of clothing or whatever rod or knob the hanger is suspended from. This is why I buy cheap white plastic hangers in bulk.
To be fair, he is not a total rube, just way too often he is deep in thought while doing mundane stuff around the house. He pays attention when it matters.
anon
The wood ones. I’m married to the Hulk and he will snap velvet hangers like twigs. I don’t even know how someone can be so rough, I swear he’s not trying but he breaks mine all the time by accident.
Anon
Why would I purchase hangers fro the men in my life? They have equal access to Amazon and a credit card.
Anon
This!!!
test run
Sometimes you do things for your partner because they’re related to the overall operation of the household and you’re already at Target so why not? Also… you like them?
Anon
Are the straights ok? “Hey, fellas, do my hangers make me look gay?”
Anonymous
I have the opposite problem – it’s difficult to find hangers narrow enough to keep my clothes nice and not distort the shoulders.
Standard hangers are men’s hangers in terms of expected shoulder width.
IKEA is a safe bet to find solid wooden hangers, both for shirts, blazers and trousers. Men’s width.
Anonymous
they make hangers for petites!!
anon
+1
They are wonderful!
Anon
Ohh wow, I did not know this!
Also anxious
I admit I have read reviews of both clothes and suit / coat hangers
But for men’s shirts I think I would just use plastic hangers that don’t have a notch in the shoulders – those notches are great for catching ladies shirts with wide necklines and / or thin shoulder straps, especially that are a bit slippery
But also eventually our hangers get passed from one closet to another and jumbled together and no one’s shirts have ever been ruined they just end up on the floor
It’s ok
Anon
Since folks enjoyed the local gossip thread about the older guy trying to hard launch his new GF I thought I’d share one. This NYT piece is by a mom in my town and OMG the local mom’s chats are blowing up. I can only imagine how mortified the kids are and the gossip is that this is a big cry for attention that will be shortly followed by a divorce. The current husband is a big deal finance guy so I can only imagine how his colleagues are reacting. I’m all for looking back fondly on old boyfriends but this strikes me as SO disrespectful to your spouse!
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/style/modern-love-life-shaken-by-old-love-letter.html?unlocked_article_code=1.-E0.tJF5.b2t6FER5HGdh&smid=url-share
anon
Wow. That was … quite a read. And incredibly disrespectful to the current husband and kids. Why the heck would you put that out there? It reads like they were in lust, not in love, back in the day.
Anon
When she got to the part about her husband in the present tense I was like, NO!!
txatty
Okay I missed the local gossip thread. Was this yesterday or further back?
Anon
Last week I think? The TLDR is that a guy on the board of a big local festival hard launched a young girlfriend at the event a few days after kicking his ex-wife and her son (that he’d raised) out of the house with very little notice. Small town so everyone knew the ex/ex’s kid and was aware that they were kicked out with zero notice and the young girlfriend moved in almost immediately. And then the guy got shouty on Facebook about everyone side-eyeing his awful behavior. There are more details but it was quite the situation!
Anon
She just wrote that so she could publish all those compliments in his letter. It’s like posting your 6th grade report card (all As!) on Facebook. What an evil, self-centered twit.
Anon
My thoughts exactly!
Anon
The real kicker is, he didn’t mean them.
I’m friends with a lot of men. This dude fed her the lines she wanted to hear, enjoyed some hot gardening, and went on his merry way.
That’s totally fine if that’s what she wanted, too – a mind-blowing fling and a memory that causes her to smile when she’s in the nursing home.
She’s delusional if she thinks he was serious.
Sierra Madre, Treasure of
And the way he put down other women in the letter! Red flag for sure.
Anon
Oh, that’s exactly it! I could articulate what was wrong; you nailed it.
Anon
I once dated a guy who flattered me over and over that I was a woman who didn’t “play games” like many of his exes, whom he was putting down at the same time he was complimenting me. (I was young, I didn’t catch on.) And it’s more or less true – I am a very direct and straightforward person.
So when I finally broke up with him, I did so directly and straightforwardly.
Then he accused me of playing games, of being a liar, of just dating him to mess with his head – he went on and on.
Then I realized I was going to be one of those exes he complained about to the next woman.
Anon
I couldn’t finish this. What a massive betrayal. This is why the old stories put such an emphasis on getting old love letters back after the end of a romance. Most people behave with emotional mementos but some people do not.
Anon
This is not the first woman in her late 40’s early 50’s that seems to be having a midlife reckoning in a very public way. On one hand, great that she’s reclaiming some of her self, on the other hand is decorum and discretion (or heck, respect for your partner!) no longer a thing?
Anon
Huh, the letter is a little cringe but this is highly relatable. I think a lot of had an early love that wasn’t the right time and you wonder what could have happened. I have a few exes like this and I’ve talked with my wonderful husband about them and he has a similar past. There’s a lot of potential happy endings and I think that’s all this is saying. I don’t get the scandal or the pearl clutch.
Peloton
I think the differentiating question is whether you or your husband published your thoughts on those old flames in the NYT under your real name.
Anon
Well no, absolutely not. But presumably he knows he married a writer?
Anon
+1
Anon
Exactly! I cannot believe she published this under her real name…
Vicky Austin
My thoughts exactly!
anon
The essay came across like she’s 2 steps away from contacting the guy and seeing what would happen.
Anon
Or already has.
eggplant
Same reaction here. It’s a little cringe that she wrote about her old flame in the NYT, but it’s pretty on par with other modern love posts, to be honest. The idea that someone reflects on a former fling isn’t really shocking or even that interesting.
meara
Ooh yes I read this a few minutes ago and thought “did your husband ok this? Because damn!” Like, maybe if it had ended a different way of like “I googled him and he’s dead” or “I googled him and realized it’s not the same and it’s a moment in time but my current life is so good”. But to be like “maybe he’ll see this and know it’s me…”???
ABanon
She says “I desperately love my husband.” She concludes, I’m not going to do anything about this besides perhaps write more stories.
Anon
Oh yeah. If he’d been dead, it might have read as a tribute to someone once full of life. Ugh.
Anon
I can’t believe the NYT actually published this. Unsurprisingly, this woman had an NYT wedding announcement almost exactly 20 years ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/26/fashion/weddings/elizabeth-uphoff-peter-courtney.html?unlocked_article_code=1.-E0.uH5X.stmoJ-sUNXTY&smid=url-share
Anon
Why am I not surprised to learn that she seems to have come from money, married into even more money and is now looking at the ‘road not taken’ from her mansion.
Anon
Heh.
test run
I’m very distracted by the fact that this announcement ends with the father of the groom’s two olympic medals. You know those medals must have come up… a lot.
Anon
Seriously! I thought the same thing when I saw that
Anon
Read his obituary! It’s a play by play of his running career.
Anonymous
Does anyone here have their own business that is something other than – I was a lawyer, consultant, tech person, so I grabbed some clients and set up my own shop? Asking about something along the lines of acquiring or starting a business that wasn’t an offshoot of a professional services business you worked in, maybe something requiring capital investment. Or maybe taking over a family business.
What do you do? What do you like or dislike about it and would you do it again? An MBA who is toying with this idea and DH and family members IRL are telling me it’s insane.
Anon
I had a side wedding business to my daytime corporate job, I don’t recommend it. It took all my free time and wasn’t as lucrative and never would have scaled to equal it. It’s still a job, much more of it is work than play. If you have free time, get a hobby not a business. Or buy a business that you go all in on, but do that smartly with a lot of diligence.
anon
I have a side business related to one of my hobbies. It is highly seasonal and can’t be done year-round. I am considering not doing it again next year. It’s not very lucrative, for one thing. To make it a real money-maker, I would need to invest more of everything: time, marketing, client list, etcetera. I just don’t have it in me to do that on top of my full-time job. At that point, it stops being a hobby. I have learned that while I really like doing the “thing,” I don’t enjoy many of the things that go along with having a business. Good to learn that while the stakes have been low.
Anonymous
I’m so curious why they think it’s insane, and why it make sense to you. That’s a HUGE difference in perspective. Or, do you see their point, not mind that it’s insane, and see it as a challenge you are eager to take on?
Anonymous
OP here – DH thinks it’s insane because I’m in a high salary, easy but no more growth potential type of job, so why take on the headache of owning a business when I can be on easy street. He’d still support me if I wanted to as he knows he married someone who is just a happier person when she is challenged. And while switching jobs is always an option, I am just really tired of working for other people. I fully understand that working for yourself is no cakewalk but working for others for a few decades has really worn me down.
As for the comment below – I’m doing my research on various things so this isn’t like – buy a business tomorrow in any random industry. This would be a plan executed over multiple years if I did it.
Anon
I agree with your husband. Look, the main point of work is to get money. Find satisfaction elsewhere and save yourself the stress and headaches associated with being a small business owner. Not to mention the likely income hit, you get to worry about tax audits, insurance, professional liability. Why? Cause you’re bored? Literally of you have nothing else as an alternative I’d explore it, but you have a high paying job. Get a dog, go volunteer somewhere, take up golf or birdwatching, get into photography. But I would never introduce massive headaches and stress into my life or marriage like this.
Anonymous
OP is switching industries a possibility? That would present a challenge in that you’d be learning a new role, but not a challenge in terms of running a business because you’d still have vacation time, benefits, a high salary even if you had to take a pay cut. As you well know the salary with a business can be zero in certain years. Going to a new company, you wouldn’t be going to zero.
Dogs, volunteer work, bird watching or baking may not do it for someone who is seeking intellectual challenge. Though if you want challenge along of the lines of a hobby – OP I have taught myself to trade options and I LOVE IT. I know people here don’t tend to deal with individual stock but I did it responsibly while keeping my day job and allocating a set amount of money to it. Something to consider.
Anon
I agree with him.
Anonymous
It is insane to just pick up owning a business when you have no idea what that business would even be.
Cat
it feels nuts because there’s so much behind the surface of running a small business that you just don’t have to think about when you’re the employee of a large company. like there’s a reason there are whole departments for accounting, tax, sales, ops, procurement, HR, legal, real estate, etc. The people I know who have done it successfully ground it out for years before gradually expanding to having more professionals and staff. It doesn’t sound like the kind of “fun challenge as a side to a day job” that you are looking for!
CK
Yes! I was married to a man who owned his own business. After seeing the grind, the headaches, and the worry about making payroll for employees I decided I was quite happy not to be my own boss. I hear similar stories from friends who have their own business. I say no thank you but you do you.
Anonymous
i looked into owning a number of business over the years — i always think about the story about the PJ company (Cat’s Pajamas maybe?) founders who agreed to take one year and take every single possible job they could in anything related to PJs. Learn what they could, then quit. They worked in factories, stories, marketing departments, maybe more too. Hearing that story made me realize that it was going to take a LOT more than i was ready for to own a small business.
That said I do own my own business and I’ve been very lucky with it — don’t want to out myself and it isn’t really replicable so it doesn’t matter. But: look for low overhead and something that’s small, maybe smaller than you think. Dropshipping mugs you design, or Etsy spreadsheets.
Another example here: that guy from the Apprentice (Bill Rancick I think?) who decided to sell cigars because it’s what could fit in his Chicago apartment. That always seemed like such a smart move.
Anonymous
For those who have kids or have thought about how you’d raise kids – how much do you involve your kids in decisions?
DH and I have a young son in his why why why phase. Right now it’s fine because he’s just trying to learn about the world, so we are happy to tell him in simple words what mommy and daddy do at work or why we are going to x beach on vacation or why we had to buy a new car. Yet as we look at our nieces and nephews who are in middle school, we notice that in all those families kids are very much involved and informed about any decisions. DH and I grew up in homes where you simply did not ask or know what your parents made in salary, or question why you didn’t go on vacation, or even what was for dinner because the answers were often – that’s not your business or because mom and dad said so. So clearly something has shifted with our siblings or maybe child rearing generally.
In a way it seems great, I mean kids are part of the family. In another way it seems hard. Life already is hard and it seems like adding pre teen opinions to whether we should buy a new house or skip a vacation to save money or switch jobs even if it means more time in the office would just make all decision making harder. Even with the realization that you don’t have to listen to a middle schooler’s opinion – just an extra person voicing opinions seems like it’d be hard. How does it work in your family?
anon
Kids get input when the stakes are low. Voice an opinion about a vacation? Sure. What we’re having for dinner? OK. Big things, like jobs, and where we live, and how we finance our lives? No. They are children, and they don’t have the full context for making those decisions. Not to mention they do not need to be concerned with adult-level problems. I like to think we have an open relationship with our big kids, and of course we are considering them in the many decisions we make as a couple, but I am wary of giving kids too much decision-making power before they’re really able to understand it.
Anon
Yeah I mostly agree with this. I have one 6 year old, fwiw.
I will say I try to involve my kid in vacation planning more than some people seem to. As a kid I was taken on a lot of family vacations that were pretty miserable for me because it was 100% about what my parents wanted to do. Especially with only one kid, I think it’s important that they feel like they’re part of the family and not just the third wheel. We take kid-free trips but for family vacations we try to make sure there’s something each person in the family is genuinely excited about, and we’ve done some kid-centric vacations (Legoland, Disney) that DH & I weren’t really enthusiastic about but it made our kid happy.
anon
Caveat that my kid is too young for these issues yet, but I think there’s a big difference in involving a middle schooler in vacation planning and soliciting their opinion on an adult job change.
I grew up a lot like you, don’t question or if you did you got a rude answer. I think as parents have shifted to being more “friends” with their kids, there’s also been a shift towards treating the kids as part of a family unit and a focus on the relationship, rather than feeding and sheltering them for 18 years then GTFO which is how my Irish Catholic family tends to view kids.
I would want my middle schooler or high schooler to enjoy vacation and actually eat their dinner so involving them in the process (planning, budgeting, grocery shopping) at an age appropriate level makes sense to me. Buying a new house or knowing my salary, absolutely not. Kids talk too much and we live below our means bc I’m risk averse and want to retire early, and I don’t want her having weird thoughts about us being rich or not.
Anon
I think some things are worth a family discussion (with parents, of course, retaining veto power / making the final decision) and most things are fine to be the parents making the decision.
For example, I’m happy to discuss family vacation ideas as a whole family. Usually we have a few ideas and ask the kids what they think, but I’d also be fine with setting parameters (road trip over summer break, domestic spring break trip, do we do winter skiing or summer beach this year) and having free for all input from the kids. But, as parents we’ve already decided that we’re taking a vacation and the rough budget – that stuff isn’t up for negotiation.
If we’re ordering dinner out, happy to discuss should we get Chinese or pizza. But, if someone is making dinner (95% of the time its a parent), we get to choose and let’s face it – at 6PM when we all get home and I want dinner on the table by 6:30, I do not care about opinions! Obviously, I don’t choose to make meals that I know people hate, but if you don’t like it you can make yourself a sandwich.
Neither of us plan on making major life decisions like switching jobs, moving, radically chhanging the family budget and the like so that doesn’t apply for us. Generally, I think big adult decisions should be made by the adults – we have the maturity and experience and the responsibility that our kids don’t have. But, if something would radically change the family I do see listening to the kids’ opinions, even if you are still going to decide what you think is best for the family.
Anonymous
My parents never considered me in decisions growing up, they’re all *shocked Pikachu* I only visit once a year at Christmas. Sorry mom & dad your decision to spend two weeks at a sandals resort instead of paying for my braces has consequences.
anon
I think that sounds much different than what the OP was talking about. I’m sorry your parents did that.
Anonymous
Is it? It’s about budgeting priorities and it’s pretty common for people to prioritize themselves. I also don’t buy the argument kids don’t get a say because they don’t bear the consequences. I promise I bear consequences every day for the childhood medical care that was skipped in favour of luxuries.
Anonymous
Considering your child’s interests is different from consulting them. Plenty of children would say no to braces even if they really should have them. Your parents should have prioritized braces over vacations, but they didn’t need to ask for your input.
Anonymous
But that’s the point, most parents DON’T consider their children’s interests because they’re treated as accessories and not autonomous humans.
Cat
wow, there’s a huge difference between “my irresponsible parents spent all their disposable income on couples’ trips and didn’t get me braces” and “my parents had the primary say over household decisions” without the kid being an accessory?!
Anonymous
The original question isn’t “do you consider your child’s interests when making decisions,” it’s “do you *involve* your child in decision-making.”
Peloton
So, allowing input is not the same as allowing decision making power. The child can be in the CI parts of the RACI framework (responsible, accountable, consulted, informed) on decisions, as long as it’s clear that that’s the role they are in. It wouldn’t be fair or healthy to put a major decision on a preteen, but allowing them to articulate their feelings about it can be done (depending on the kid, obviously).
FWIW because you mention the salary, I helped my mom make and review the family budget every month as a child; I think that was very constructive for me as a kid, and I would very much encourage it for any kid who expresses interest in the family finances! (My sibling was firmly not interested and was not forced to participate). This included things like seeing what vacation budgets were, etc. I’m very organized financially, and I give all credit for that to my mom for letting me get involved in the “adult” stuff in an age-appropriate way.
Anon
+1. My parents explained why they do certain things as a way to teach critical thinking and decision making skills. They asked for my opinion so I could practice articulating a rational viewpoint, even if they weren’t really taking my opinion into consideration. I’m glad I learned how responsible adults think through big and small decisions. When the adults make all the decisions behind closed doors or pull the “because I said so” line the kids don’t learn anything. There’s obviously some consideration for age appropriate topics, but I knew my my parents’ salaries by high school.
Peloton
+1. My parents’ approach was very much “you’ll need to make these decisions as an adult; here’s my thinking; how do you think you would handle it?” not “I’m going to let this 11 year old decide whether we buy a new house or not.” Felt very respectful and empowering, but also did not leave me feeling like I was responsible when the decisions turned out poorly.
Anonymous
Let’s make the distinction between discussing a decision with a child and allowing them to make it. Discussing the pros and cons of an adult job change with a child will hopefully help them make decisions like that for themself in the future. It’s fundamentally different from allowing them to make the decision. FWIW, I think allowing a child to make a decision would put a TON of pressure on the kid – what happens if the new job is a poor fit? Also, it does not model proper autonomy. My husband shares the responsibility of supporting our family, that’s why his opinion is so important on my job change, but ultimately it’s my call.
Peloton
Yeah, you and I are in complete agreement. Kids can be consulted or informed on major decisions, but the decision making authority HAS to remain with the parents, or it is unfair and unhealthy. But you can usually allow space for your child to form and express thoughts on decisions in an age-appropriate way.
SMC - San Diego
In my view there is a long way between “what are we having for dinner” and “should mom switch jobs” or “how should our family budget.”
My daughter is now an adult but when she was young I involved her in decisions that were up for debate. Things like whether to go out to dinner, where to go or what to have (with acceptable options identified), whether to go to Rome or Hawaii (when both were fine with me), etc. But I would never have given her a say on major life decisions like whether to move, my job selection, or my budget, although I was happy to discuss my thought process with her. That is way too much power (and responsibility) for someone who lacked to maturity for those kinds of decisions – and honestly who is not going to be the one to live with the long-term consequences.
Anonymous
I have a 17-year-old who is about to leave for college. The only decisions in which we involved her were decisions about her: whether/where she would go to camp, which high school program she’d pursue, whether to play a sport or instrument and which one, whether she would take solo trips to visit relatives and which ones. It was mostly “we can afford XYZ–do you want to do it?” or “pick one of these options.” There were plenty of times she wanted to do something, like one ridiculously overpriced school trip that was also poorly planned, and we just said no. We did consult her on minor points of vacation planning–do you want to go kayaking or surfing? if we go to Disney World for one day which park do you want to visit?–but I don’t think we would have allowed as much input if we’d had multiple kids with competing preferences. We let her pick restaurants and movies quite a bit because, again, only child. When she was 12 she tried to convince us to let her choose the color of our new car because the plan was for it eventually to get handed down to her, but we just laughed at that request. When she was a teen we explained a lot of our bigger decisions and their financial impact (e.g., the time I stepped back to part-time contract work for a few months, our choice not to upgrade our starter home to a bigger house), but we definitely did not give her a voice in any of these decisions. We presented all big decisions as “this is what’s happening and why” and she was welcome to voice her reaction, but we weren’t going to let a kid influence our adult choices.
What we did do was to put her in charge of her own spending money relatively early. From kindergarten on she had an allowance and was required to spend her own money on certain categories of things: toys, art supplies, graphic novels, souvenirs, etc. When she started high school I calculated how much I was spending on all of her clothes, toiletries, school supplies, and other necessities. We put that amount every month into a bank account with a debit card and let her buy her own stuff to practice making decisions and living with the consequences in an age-appropriate way. Now that she’s starting college, we’ve put her in charge of earning her own spending money. She has become a good money manager and a smart shopper.
One decision we did not allow her to make for herself was the choice to take on student loans. We told her how much we could afford to pay for college and that if she wanted that money, the condition was that she would take out no loans. We didn’t want her future constrained by loans in the way ours had been. She was welcome to apply anywhere she liked, but if the cost came in higher than our budget she had to make up the difference with merit scholarships (net price calculator estimates varied too widely to predict what we’d actually be asked to pay). Her top choice ended up being a fantastic SLAC that came in under budget after merit aid.
Anon
If they have questions about how or why we’re doing something, I’m happy to try to answer on most topics, but admittedly on big things nothing is really up for discussion.
I”m not going to get into the details about finances with my kids – happy to discuss tradeoffs and general budgeting thoughts with them, but they don’t need to know how much we make.
A lot of little things are, time permitting, up to discussion to a point. Like if we have chicken and beef in the fridge and I’m about to cook dinner, I’m happy to ask what people want. But, if its 7PM and we just got home from someone’s game, I’m making pasta because its quick and I’m not soliciting opinions. I also always ask for requests before going food shopping.
As for vacations, its usually a “we were thinking about going to ABC, what are your thoughts?”. Or, “would you guys rather ABC or XYZ?”. Even though we could afford most trips (within reason), we still make a lot of our vacation decisions based off of costs – so we dont’ really present options to our kids until we’ve done that research and made that decision. So, like, we wanted to do a family Europe trip, specifically Ireland, England, or Scotland. We priced it out, saw Ireland was cheaper and then proposed an Ireland trip to the family.
anon
I agree with this, especially first paragraph.
Anonymous
Nope nope nope. Involving kids in adult decisions, rescheduling family vacations because of kids’ birthdays, parents’ quitting their own hobbies if a kid wants to pursue the same hobby, all of this creates spoiled children who turn into entitled, narcissistic adults.
Anon
I’ve not honestly seen this pattern (actual narcissists usually did not feel accepted as children which is why they’re so needy for supply as adults, right?), but I think it can be really stressful on kids to feel the weight of these decisions and all the regret if they dislike what they chose. Even adults struggle with the amount of decision making and the breadth of choice in rich, modern lifestyles!
I think it is important to listen to kids more if it’s about their own lives and how they spend their time (their education, pursuits, social worlds, etc.).
Anonymous
You are correct, children who are heard and validated don’t typically become narcissists (though it’s actually pretty narcissistic for a parent to make their child abide by their every whim).
Anon
My kids are young adults now. I’m an authoritative parent. They of course could have preferences but decisions involving safety or big money were not theirs.
It’s like you can decide what to eat and how much to eat but you can’t decide not to eat.
CMS
We talk to our son about way more than my parents ever talked to me and my brother about. Not because he necessarily gets a say (although I agree with the comment above about letting kids have input in low stakes decisions), but because you are building a foundation for them to think about these issues in an age-appropriate way so they can one day make good decisions themselves. Its basic modeling, just like any other skill you want them to acquire. Part of this is a reaction to things I’ve seen in other families where they end up with 22 or 25 year-olds that can’t do basic things for themselves and still need the parents to parachute in to handle anything important. Too soon to tell whether its the right approach…
txatty
Yellowstone in September
Yesterday morning someone wrote about going to Yellowstone in September but I didn’t read it until the end of the day so I decided to poke my head in here and see if I could find you. I went to Yellowstone in 2023 basically right as the park lodges start to close for the season. Some were open still, some had closed. According to the internet, pretty much all of the restaurants in park should have still been open but in reality we found A LOT had shut down for the season. We had brought in lunch meat and peanut butter and bread, and ate that for a lot of meals. Just wanted to give you a warning and encourage you to bring some food in with you because the stores in park are expensive.
go for it
It was me! Thank you for this tip.
Anonymous
wfm today (“working”) and just tried on my NAS order finally. what are your thoughts? i liked the ottoman sweatshirt and good american boxy sweater more than i thought i would, did not like the zella wide-neck “sweatshirt” (got it in black and pink and it’s just t-shirt material, not a sweatshirt). pondering the kut from the kloth pants. the brown sweater jacket i ordered is not for my bust, unfortunately.
Anonymous
If you got it in white, the Good American boxy sweater is 60% off on their own website
Anonymous
I have a bunion in one foot that in recent years seems more prominent. I’ve resorted to mostly wearing comfortable dress shoes for work. Recently though it’s been hurting even when sitting around doing nothing. IDK if it’s my summer of flip flops or what. It isn’t a big deal now in my mid 40s but thinking long term, I’d like to keep working out and taking long walks easily – is there anything I can do to improve this or slow it down? Is a podiatrist visit called for or orthopedist though IDK if they’d deal with this?
Anonymous
Girl yes. Obviously. Stop trashing your feet with flip flops, wear shoes, and check back in. A doctor is going to tell you to wear supportive shoes.
anon
+1
Z
So I have somewhat severe bunions on both feet, and my podiatrist told me that almost all the time, genetics will determine if or when they get worse. The choices in shoes I make will be better or worse for comfort, but will not make my bunions any better or worse. He gave me insoles for comfort and support but they’re not actually going to change the size of my bunions.
Is your bunion painful or making it difficult for you to walk? If so then I would go to a podiatrist.
Anon
Bunions only get worse, not better. If supportive shoes and custom orthotics don’t resolve the pain it’s time to visit a podiatric surgeon. It’s amazing how people will live with round the clock pain instead of getting a bunionectomy. If your foot hurts on sedentary days and you can’t get a normal amount of exercise you need to consider surgery. I found the recovery to be pretty easy, nothing like the horror stories people spread online.
Celia
Are you sure it’s actually a bunion and not arthritis? If it’s the latter, the bones will grow around the affected joint to compensate, make a bunion-like bulge. If it’s at the point it hurts all the time, you’ll need surgery. Go see an orthopedic surgeon!
Runcible Spoon
Get a referral from you GP to an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankle surgery. I don’t know what sort of training podiatrists receive, burt orthopedic surgeons seem to be the gold standard. You want someone who does this all day, everyday, as I hear bunionectomies have a high failure rate. But if the pain is interfering with living your life, it needs to be addressed, life is too long to live with the pain and debilitation. Post-surgery you’ll need to be on crutches and a negative heel boot for aroudn five weeks or so (unless the procedures have improved recently), and you should set up physical therapy ahead of time, once or twice a week for how ever many weeks they suggest. Those PT appointments fill up quickly!
Anon
I saw this on Facebook today and had to share – in a dorm mom prep group (which on its own is wild to me!) I saw several posts about getting gifts for your child’s roommates or suite mates? What is the world coming to?
anon
WTAF? Why does everything in our current parenting culture need to be dialed up to an 11? I don’t think I even met my freshman roommate’s parents, ever.
Anon
My parents never made it up to ‘parent’s weekend’ when I was in college (long road trip, had younger siblings who had sports practices/homework/stuff to do on the weekend that would have made it a pain for them to schlep everyone up to see me). My roommates parents always came up (she was the youngest and they were alumni) and very kindly took me with them to a ‘nice’ dinner off campus. My parents would then send her parents a bottle of champagne and a note to thank them for their hospitality. That’s about as far as it ever went in terms of ‘gifting’.
Anon
That sounds lovely, normal, and the most interaction these parents should have!
anon
That sounds wonderful! And completely different than whatever is happening in this facebook group.
anon
100%
This is ridiculous.
Anon
I kept getting those posts randomly popping up and share your sentiments. I think everyone in that group needs therapy.
Anon
Yeah, I don’t have kids, am not currently a student, and am not involved in anything related to college -no idea WHY this post popped up for me!
I saw another mom worrying because the only decor her son wanted in his dorm was his college’s flag, but the flag didn’t match the duvet he (or, more likely, she) picked out, and what to do and how to tie it together or get him to change one of them? Um, he’s an 18 year old boy – he does not care and it does not matter.
anon
Those women are going to struggle so hard in the next decade. It’s kind of sad, honestly.
Anon
Yes I see it with my aunt. She made her entire life about bulldozing any potential obstacles for my cousin and is way, way too invested in his life (he’s an only child, if you couldn’t tell). My cousin actually handles it well and is well adjusted for how bananas my aunt was.
My aunt is NOT doing well with my cousin being an adult – he has a job, lives with his girlfriend in a city several hours away, has his own social life, and my aunt is just not needed in his day to day and his serious girlfriend is taking my aunt’s place of sounding board for major decisions (as she should, as its very likely they’ll get engaged soon).
Im also thankful hat my cousin turned out so normal despite his mom’s best intentions to do otherwise!
Anonymous
So what does the aunt do now? Like how does she keep herself occupied? Or is she constantly just pining for the next call or text from her son?
Anon
Its embarrassing – my whole life (I’m a bit older than my cousin), she never had hobbies and has only had a few friends. She and my uncle are truly only married because they’re too religious (him) or too worried about how it “looks” (her) to get divorced. She literally does just wait for his next call or question, does research into things that may or may not relate to him and sends him unsolicited opinions from this research, or does research and then wrings her hands over it.
For instance: she’s done more job searching for him over the years than he has, ditto apartment searching, I know she’s now involved in looking at rings and engagement ideas now that he’s serious with his GF. FWIW, he has not mentioned engagement plans to anyone, she’s taken this on on her own.
From what I can tell, he mostly accepts whatever she tells him, pretends to care, and then does whatever he was going to do anyways. He’s learned that shutting her down is more headache than its worth. Sometimes he does take her advice (a broken clock is right twice a day), but usually not.
She’s so out of touch with reality (hasn’t worked in about 25 years, no hobbies / limited social life and really social interaction at all as listed above, her relationship with money is so unrealistic that my uncle had to take over the family’s finances, and my uncle does all housework and yardwork) that 90% of her suggestions are just so out of left field they’re not realistic or remotely a good idea. But that doesn’t stop her from giving her unsolicited opinions about things she knows nothing about!!
Seventh Sister
My aunt is like that and her daughter really got the brunt of it. The son, not so much, probably because he benefited from being the second and the only boy in the whole generation. He also married a woman with a big extended immigrant family (who are quite lovely) and just goes along with the social flow of his in-laws.
Daughter has finally, FINALLY, in her 40s broken away from some of it.
Anon
Honestly I assume that group is 99.99% bots and somehow makes advertising revenue – I don’t have kids at all, too young to have college age kids anyway, have never heard of such nonsense, and STILL got served that post. I guess if it were something like a parent dropped off a Costco box of snacks and said something like “for all of you all!” it wouldn’t be that weird…
Anon
Right! My parents met my roommate’s parents briefly at move in and have probably never seen them again, even though my freshman roommate is now one of my closest friend and we (and our parents) all live in the same metro area.
My freshman roommate and I (in 2011) briefly texted to discuss minor logistics like “do you have a mini fridge?”. We didn’t discuss color schemes, let alone purposely matching anything. Absolutely no one gifted anyone anything! I would be mortified if my mom wanted to bring a gift (?!?) to meet my freshman roommate with! Like this is my new life as my own person – why would I want my mom to be involved?
Anon
In my opinion, a gift for a dorm mate is like a rug in the common area or a nicer bigger tv.
Anonymous
Is this group called Dorm Mom Prep? I need to look this up – LOL.
I think every aspect of parenting has been dialed up to where people just hover over kids 24-7. I think there’s a university that has discussed that it’s restructured its orientation to make it clear that orientation is for the students, not students plus mom and dad. So they’ve changed the structure to where parents are given a day or two to drop off kids, apparently give roommate gifts, settle them in, then they’ve made a few activities in orientation be family activities, and then they symbolically start the rest of orientation at which time students – and only students – must walk through some gates at the university. Signaling to mom and dad that it’s time to go home.
Anonymous
I keep getting posts from one called Dorm Room Moms and it’s just gross. I’ve seen posts about roommate/suitemate gifts and a ton of posts talking about “our” room and what “we” need. I ought to mute it but I just can’t look away.
Meanwhile, I am the mean mom telling my kid “no, you cannot buy a headboard because they won’t store furniture in the dorm basement over the summer and I am not driving all the way up there to get your cr@p until you graduate.” She did buy herself a LoveShackFancy duvet cover. With her own money.
Anonymous
Actually it’s Dorm Room Mamas.
Senior Attorney
Of course it is…
Curious follow up
I have a question though, hopefully someone sees this before afternoon thread:
“I think every aspect of parenting has been dialed up to where people just hover over kids 24-7”
I’ve seen this sentiment in a lot of places, how old are the parents doing this? Like which age bracket of parents are “to blame”? (though I know that’s harsh to use the word, whatever). Is is elder millennials young 40s to mid 30s? Basically, who started this trend?
I want to know so I hopefully don’t turn into one! :) I say jokingly, but 37 and hoping to maybe have a kid soon
Anonymous
I am 47 with a rising college freshman. I definitely see some of my late-GenX peers being snowplow parents. Around the turn of the millennium I worked at a fancy expensive college and observed some of this behavior from parents, but not as much as I see now.
Anon
I think the overbearing ones get all the attention, but most parents are still normal. For this specific issue, the parents are likely gen X. The oldest millennials are only 43. Even coming from the Midwest, that would be young to have kids. I’m an older millennial, and the oldest of my friends’ kids are just starting high school.
CMS
Where I’ve seen it is parents who are mid-50s, with their kids in college now (I’m 43 with a 10 year-old). Groups of moms going down to deep clean the off-campus apartment/house the kids were sharing. What!?!? No way my parents would have gone anywhere near that. If I wanted my security deposit back, my roommates and I had to clean.
Anonymous
At my private college, the future sorority sisters had coordinated very Lilly looking rooms set up.
Anonymous
Hmm went to college in the late 90s. Did not meet freshman roommate’s parents until like halfway through the year because by the time I arrived, they had moved her in and gone home and I arrived maybe an hour or two after her. So eventually met them when they came to visit her one weekend and carried some food and crates of water to our room, offering me to take water from those crates because they were cheaper at Costco than what I’d pay for a bottle of water on campus.
Roommate I lived with for the remaining 3 years was from halfway across the country. She moved in and out on her own. Met her dad once when he was in town for a medical conference and stopped by. To this day have never met her mom and we are still friends. So apparently college has changed.
Seventh Sister
I don’t think I ever met my first college roommate’s parents. She had moved in the week prior to the general move-in day (she was first-generation and they had a separate orientation week). Her family lived close by but wanted her to come home and see them v. visiting.
Anon
Oh I’m now too deep into the “Dorm Room Mamas” group – thankfully I’m off today!
They’re now discussing lockboxes for their kids’ gaming systems which also seems like overkill to me!
FWIW, I started college not quite 10 years ago – and none of this was on anyones radar! My parents just took me to Bed Bath & Beyond to pick out bedding, towels, a few mugs, and then helped me pack and move in and get organized and that was about it!
Vicky Austin
You and I are of a similar vintage, and yeah, what!!
Anon
It’s still not on the radar of most people. But”I just took my kid to pick out stuff at target and dropped them at the dorms” parents don’t have a Facebook group and aren’t posting on social media about it
Anon
I work in communications for a major public university, and several years ago part of my job was monitoring a Facebook group for the parents of admitted students (to answer questions that were relevant to my dept). The helicopter parenting was WILD. And this was pre-Covid, I’m sure it’s worse now.
HSAL
My husband unexpectedly passed in November and and I’ve been trying to update things around the house to feel more “me” as opposed to decorative compromises. Got new towels, some new decor, but I’m stuck on bedding. I bought this quilt/comforter mashup from Anthro back in 2009 that I still have and adore, but it’s too small for the bed I have now. They don’t have anything comparable, but it was heavier than most quilts, but not as fluffy as most comforters, and a beautiful floral pattern. Any recs/places to look? I definitely want something patterned. I don’t want a duvet/cover. I’ve checked Pottery Barn, Macy’s, Anthro, Crate & Barrel but nothing.
Anon
I have something like that from Target that I really love. They carry coordinating shams and sheets too.
Anon
What style floral was it?
HSAL
Large and bold, kind of abstract? Bright and multicolored. I actually just took another look at Anthro and they have some new ones that could work. It’s been awhile since I started looking so glad I shuffled back.
Peloton
I’m really sorry for your loss.
Our bedding is from Serena & Lily. It is divine but also we got it from their outlet on a big discount. Maybe see if they have anything you like on sale?
Anon88
I have the Stillwater floral quilt from Schoolhouse with a down blanket from Macy’s– the perfect combo for me as someone who sleeps hot.
Here’s the blanket: https://www.macys.com/shop/product/royal-luxe-classic-white-down-light-warmth-microfiber-blankets-created-for-macys?ID=15434954&swatchColor=Gray
and the quilt: https://www.schoolhouse.com/products/stillwater-floral-quilt?variant=40027850047532
ALT
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Look at Etsy for “razai”—it’s a Jaipuri light quilt. You can also search block print quilt and you’ll get a lot of results. I have one on my bed and I love it.
Cat
Annie Selke? Serena & Lily?
Digby
The Company Store or Garnet Hill?
Anon
These are exactly what I was going to suggest.
NW Islander
I would check Cuddledown, Garnet Hill, and Company Store.
Very sorry for your loss.
Mpls
Might try the Company Store? Is the floral pattern woven in and all the same color, like a matelassé fabric?
I love the matelassé look and have a couple of those myself. They have a lovely weight to them. I usually pair them with a down blanket in the winter.
Even if not what you’re looking for the Company Store will have other quilt/comforter options.
Anon
Company Store has some really pretty comforters printed by Rifle Paper Company right now. I’ve been eyeing them but they don’t go on sale!
So many hugs for your loss. You must have had a year.
Anonymous
Maybe you would like bedding from https://www.khasto.com/en/
Anon
Condolences.
Senior Attorney
This gorgeous gingko pattern bedspread has been following me all around the interwebs lately: https://ownkoti.com/products/ginkgo-three-layers-cotton-gauze-quilt?
And hugs to you as you make your way in this new normal.
Trixie
I like The Company Store and Garnet Hill for bedding…
Anon
I have to write up some kind of document/business case to advocate for a new title for myself. It won’t be a promotion but will better reflect my job. I’ve never done this kind of thing before, where do I start?
Anon
I’m doing something similar but I’m also writing a job description, which includes some things I’m already doing and some I want to be doing. I’ve done this by copying job descriptions with the title I’m after from similar orgs. Mostly I’ve found these on LinkedIn, but I also asked a contact at one of the similar orgs to share theirs with me.
anon
Maybe with some market intel? For example, you could research other people who do your job scope and what their titles are. HR may be able to help you (or hinder depending on how your HR function operates). Several people I worked with did this. Eg changing from paralegal to legal project manager to analyst or something like that.
anon
Think of it from the perspective of whoever it is you need approval from and try to answer the questions or concerns they might have about the new title. I would start with what’s the problem you’re trying to solve – do people come to you with problems or questions you can’t handle or that aren’t your job to handle, do you struggle with external stakeholders or at events because people you meet aren’t getting a proper understanding of your job, are you out of step with other people in your organisation who have a similar job but a different title? You want to articulate why you want the title, what difference it will make to change, and what impact it will have on the business (which if it’s a big organisation might go beyond you).
Anonymous
How common is having an offer rescinded? Had it happen to me last week and not gonna lie, I’m still hurting. They moved me through rounds of interviews super fast but then when it came time to draw up an offer, everything took time. Maybe they met another candidate so they were like slow down the offer? Maybe they got annoyed that I negotiated my salary and ask for one day a week work from home? But thing is they agreed to a few grand more, said yes to one day a week at home, and then out of no where called me and said we absolutely need you to start x date or it’s done. When I said well I haven’t even given notice yet because you haven’t gotten me an offer letter, they said ok fine you can do x date plus 2 weeks. I agreed and then got the call back that said sorry we’re going a different way.
I had heard that the big boss was hard to work for so I assume this was him just getting mad. But still hurts to be so close and now be stuck in my awful current job for the foreseeable future.
anon
That really sucks, but it sounds like you avoided jumping to a job that could potentially be an even worse fit. I don’t think they negotiated in good faith if they were going to pull the rug out from under you like that.
Anon
I’m so sorry but consider it a blessing in disguise.
Anon
I’m sorry, that’s awful. If it’s any consolation, nothing about that makes it seem to me like it reflects on you.
Anonymous
I’m sorry this happened. Take a week or so to get past it and then start your job search again. But this boss sounds like he’d be a nightmare once you got there. So yeah bullet dodged. I mean if he was mad about the higher salary or work from home or a two week later start date, he could have told HR to say no to any or all of those things. But to say yes and then pull the offer? Yeah I know the type and you do NOT want to work for them.
Anon
Interviewing goes both ways. This was a subservience test and depending on how you look at it, you failed (offer rescinded) or passed (dodged a bullet).
A.n.o.n.
that is super weird and it’s probably not about you.
fwiw, it seems really weird they’d agree AND THEN REVOKE. in my experience if someone asks for a very out of touch change (and yours DID NOT seem to fit that category), you say no. I am guessing there is something behind the scenes not related to you.
ps pushy on start date is another red flag so ultimately it’s probably good you aren’t going there!
Anonymous
About a decade ago I had a place be similarly pushy about the start date, to the point where they called and left me a stern voicemail that this was it, either I start x date or they’d pull the offer after I’d accepted. I called back and said ok well I’m declining the offer now and HR went on about oh dear that’s going to be a problem for the big boss – letting it be known that big boss was kind of mean.
I do know people who ended up going to that place as lots of us were exiting biglaw at the same time, and from what I heard they were super pushy about start dates because they had entirely too much work with too few people so first day of work involved sitting in the office until 9 pm. After people had left biglaw and taken a huge salary cut to NOT do those 9 pm nights anymore. So everything happens for a reason.
Groceries
Hi, all. How much do you all spend on groceries per month (per person. I guess)? I am trying to think about whether we spend too much, but it definitely doesn’t fel like we do. We cook from scratch and with fresh ingredients a lot, buy the pastured eggs and milk, etc., but we never waste food and eat almost everything we buy.
I just realized that for a family of 2 adults and one baby/toddler, we spend at least $1,000 per month. How much do you all spend on groceries and how do you feel about it?
Anon
Single, make almost all of my meals at home (only eat out when its part of social plans, buy lunch at work ~1x a week), don’t do organic or anything fancy but do buy a fair amount of convenience food (prechopped veggies, assemble and go options). I spend between $300-$450/mo.
Anon
That seems very normal to me. I think we spend about $800-1000 per month on groceries for two adults and one 6 year old in a LCOL area, and we get a lot of takeout and travel a lot (one trip/month on average).
Anonymous
One keto adult (so expensive!), one regular adult with a daily kombucha and fancy homemade coffee habit, one picky teenager. All meals at home except one dinner out a week and sometimes one lunch. Most meats and dairy and some produce organic, mostly from Walmart and Trader Joe’s. $1,200 a month.
Anonymous
About $600 a month two vegan adults who are actually active. This isn’t any sort of conscious budgeting though this is just me buying whatever I want at the grocery store which includes lots of cheap things (grains, veggies, legumes) plus whatever fancy pre-packaged things strike my fancy.
anon
I don’t think you can answer the question in a vacuum. At least I can’t for my family. If I’m spending $1000/month on groceries, my dining out bill better be minimal that month. Do you spend that and also dine out a ton? Or is the $1000 the entire food budget for the month?
Also, does $1000 seem to stretch your overall budget? If not, and you’re eating well, managing the scratch cooking in the face of jobs/life/etc…. who cares! It works for you.
Anon
That’s a lot of money. But it’s how I would choose to eat if I had the time and money. If you can afford it, keep at it!
Anon
We spend about 800-1000 for 2 adults in a very HCOL. We buy organic for most things. It’s insane and the quality seems poor lately, but organic is important to us and we’ve just sucked it up and gotten a credit card with good grocery awards.
Cat
About $300-400 a month per adult, along with probably 2 nice dinners out and 1 or 2 takeout dinners.
go for it
$700 per month tops for 2 adults, mostly organic, both athletes. I go off the USDA food chart to get a sense of estimated costs. I was raised in a big family and learned well to shop the sales… for produce (what is on sale is truly in season and highest quality). We buy the organic meats when on sale too. When our fav stuff (dry goods) are on a good sale we stock up. Oh, I do not include laundry, toilet paper, beauty, or cleaning stuff items within the $700.
anonshmanon
I think I am pretty close to that, in a HCOL place. I used to think I am a pretty frugal shopper, but things are just very expensive these days. I cook a lot from scratch, but I also buy the nice cheese. Even going to the store for a few things, I rarely come out under $50 anymore. I can afford it but many people can’t, so that worries me.
Anon
Same size family as you and we spend $800-$1000 per month in VHCOL city, and that excludes lunches/coffee in the office for DH and I, which probably adds another $500 or so per month.
anon
I just looked and we spend about $600/mo on groceries (does not include eating out). We have 2 adults and 3 kids. We have a mix of family friendly stuff and then DH and I are trying to eat healthier so more vegetables and such. We don’t waste food, we eat leftovers often. My SIL tells me she spends more on food than we do, and they have 1 kid, but they don’t eat leftovers, and she likes to cook fairly elaborate meals at home involving a lot of ingredients. I’m very into spaghetti and jar sauce kinda thing. I think a lot depends on lifestyle and preference.
Anon
Just under $500 a month for two adults, one mostly vegan, the other eats some meat, almost all meals cooked at home. I do a lot of baking and most cooking from scratch but do use a lot of canned beans and frozen fruit and vegetables and some jarred sauces and things like that to speed up cooking. Mostly shop at Trader Joe’s and supplement with stuff online (Penzey’s, King Arthur, Target, Amazon, some other specialty places) and herbs from our garden. I think we eat pretty well, so I’m happy with that.
Anon
About $600 per month for 3 adults who trend vegetarian and like to shop the organic stalls at our local farmers market. We eat out maybe twice a month, don’t do much in the way of processed or packaged food. We mostly drink water rather than soda or juice, although we do require fancy coffee beans and buy good craft beer as well as hard alcohol in that budget.
Gail the Goldfish
We spend probably $700-850 for 2 adults (which includes non-food stuff we buy at the grocery store that some people might buy elsewhere, like paper towels and laundry detergent), so that seems about right for me if you add in a baby. We don’t eat out much.
Anon
Groceries are much more expensive now than they were a few years ago! We are definitely feeling the pinch.
We spend well more than $1000 per month for three people.
I think comparisons are hard, though, because we almost never get takeout or go to a restaurant. So our budget for groceries would be higher. My number also includes things we buy when grocery shopping that aren’t strictly groceries, like household & grooming products.
Anon
For two adults I think our monthly groceries usually vary between $400-$600. But this usually includes pet food and household things we buy at Costco.
Dawn
Family of 5, including 3 kids under 10. We spend around $1300 per month on groceries in HCOL area. My husband is in charge of all groceries and cooking, and cooks mostly from scratch. We rarely eat out and so that number also includes beer and wine.
Jackie dress
Went to a big work meeting at my FAANG company and four women were wearing the Jackie dress from
Tuckernuck. Had never seen it before.
Now I just saw a Washington post article about it.
Throwing this dress out there if people are looking for a good work dress that can work in a variety of settings. It’s short so only good for avg to short people.
Anonymous
Do people really refer to it as fang?
Anon
Yup. Just like the Big Four, MBB’s, SI’s/Hyperscalers, or White Shoe law firms. It’s a handy shorthand.
Anon
This – how is FAANG any different than saying MBB?
Though, I guess it is MAANG now – lol.
Anon
Maybe even MAANA!
Anon
Yes, and they have for a long time.
Anon
Yup FAANG
Anon
Yes. And I love the look of that dress and wish they’d make it in tall, for me it’s a tunic top.
Anon
Yeah, that would be up to my hoohah.
Anon
Yes, they do. Welcome to the Bay Area.
anon
Thank you for mentioning it. I do love it and have not heard of it before either!
anon
I’m sad the pockets are faux :(
anon
Really? This seems an odd style for that tech scene. And is it really that short?
Hollis
My relative (who has dogs and likes dogs) is visiting for a week and my normally pretty calm dog is barking incessantly at her. We’ve had our relative give her treats, we’ve ignored the dog, we’ve tried distracting the dog with special food – nothing seems to be helping. Keeping her in a room helps for a short time but she starts scratching and asking to be let out. She also “forgets” about the relative and then every time the relative goes out and comes back in, or goes upstairs and returns, it starts again. Any tips or suggestions for us? Google has all kinds of long-term training suggestions. This has not happened before with other houseguests.
Anon
Go for lots of walks with you, your relative and your dog.
Anon
This is my dog with every visitor. Of we ignore her, she calms down eventually. Fortunately she’s a small dog so it’s not threatening, just annoying. We’ve hired trainers and the conclusion is there’s really nothing you can do. Some dogs are just wired that way.
Anon
PS – ours is sometimes the most reactive to people who have dogs because she can smell their dogs on them.
anon
Same. We’ve also used melatonin treats which seem to help. I have a very anxious rescue so at least we know why and that it’s not personal to the guest in our case. Interestingly, she reacts way more strongly toward men than women.
Anon
Why not an e-collar?
Anon
Because I love my dog and would never ever ever consider that. It’s cruel and makes your dog fearful. Absolutely not.
Anon
I know that incompetent and abusive trainers have misused e-collars before, and that other incompetent trainers villainize them, but they have settings. The dog trainers I know have the owners try the e-collar first and adjust it down to a setting that is gentle with the goal of communication, not fear. It is possible some dog is too timid to be a candidate for even the lowest setting, but I wouldn’t assume that. Lots of people who love their dogs have used e-collars in training before.
Anon
2:39, no f-ing way would o do that to my dog. You should never get one either.
Anon
Yikes on bikes!
Anonymous
E-collars are so cruel.
Anon
I’m not talking about shock collars, but haptic feedback devices. They’re not cruel.
Anon
My dog can be weird when one person comes over. She also doesn’t like to be petted when she’s not expecting it – like she did that snap thing (no contact) when my neighbor stopped by and reached down to pet her.
But this week we had 10 people drop by for a last minute family thing (a good thing) and my dog was fine. Most people sat at the dining room table & she sat contentedly under it at everyone’s feet. I wonder if it was because we didn’t even try to introduce her. People just came in and did their own thing and basically ignored her, and she was fine.
anon
I’m looking for my next light-hearted summer read. Bonus points if it’s set in an idyllic summery location. I just finished Happy Place by Emily Henry and Every Summer After by Carley Fortune. Ideas?
Anon
A Novel Romance was good (or really any of her others, I liked Dead Romantics slightly better than the Seven Year Slip). My favorite recent one was The Rom-Commers. It very slightly ties into her other book The Bodyguard so it might be fun to read both back to back (Bodyguard first). Hello Stranger was also very good but in a different ‘universe’ I believe.
Anon
Anything Elin Hilderbrand
Anon
I really enjoyed Lies and Weddings by Kevin Kwan
anonshmanon
I’m in the middle of Summer Reading by Jenn McKinlay. So far, so fun.
New Here
I loved Funny Story by Emily Henry. Way more than Happy Place.
Anonymous Canadian
Meet me at the Lake or This Summer Will be Different by Carley Fortune?
Laura
I loved You, With a View and Mrs. Nashes’ Ashes!
Anonymous
That call yesterday some of y’all thought was weird or fake had 160,000 participants and raised over 2 million dollars. There’s another Women for Harris call on Monday specifically as a broad umbrella for all women for Harris.
Anon
People thought it was weird or fake because it was a short post with a wrong link that went to some spam website using hostile language the campaign itself isn’t using. Don’t blame the readers for that one.
Anonymous
Lord have mercy I cannot
Anonymous
You cannot? If you’re going to get on a high horse at least fact check your message and have attention to detail. It felt like being lectured by a 15 year old on twitter, so sloppy.
KS IT Chick
I was on and found it really interesting. Talking about the historical issues around organizing and staying organized and engaged for different segments of the population and why some groups are more likely to stay engaged than others really drove home for me that I have a responsibility as an individual to be a better part of the collective.
Hearing P!nk as she literally came off the stage after a show was inspirational. Hearing from the campaign treasurer get into the details of campaign finance gave me a sense of the weight of the moment. My repeated small contributions, joined with those of hundreds and thousands of others, has a chance to make a significant difference.
Anon
Thank you for explaining! I could not figure out what it was supposed to be about.
KS IT Chick
It was a huge fundraiser for the Harris campaign, beyond being a recruiting tool to bring white women into the conversation about how we can help elect her.
Historically, black women get organized early and stay organized. They have generations of experience that opting out of the political process is a losing strategy. Historically, white women have opted out, drifted away from the organization after the issue they have organized around is addressed, or taken stances directly opposed to their own interests and well being.
I’m guilty of drifting away. In 2022, once we defeated the anti abortion constitutional amendment in Kansas, I stopped showing up. I quit reading the emails from my elected representatives and the political party I belong to. I stopped donating.
43% of white women who voted in 2016 voted for Donald Trump. White women make up over 40% of the electorate, so we have the numbers to make a huge impact on elections, if we carefully examine what candidates are saying and doing and then vote accordingly. And then we have to hold them accountable to their promises.
I’m getting ready to set up a recurring donation to the campaign. It won’t be large, but the aggregate will be important.
We have a chance to make history. We just have to make ourselves accountable for doing the work that will accomplish the goal.
Anon
53%
Anon
Look, I’m a democrat and voting for Kamala. But if a candidate or party doesn’t resonate with a demographic, look at the message and what you’re selling. I guarantee you won’t flip a single voter by calling them “white ladies” and shaming them to “do better. “
anon
Ok now. You’ve made your point.
As always, we are our own worst enemies, perfection or nothing.
Just get out and organize and donate and VOTE.
Anon
Your original link was for a scam site. We all make typos, it’s not a big deal.
anon
Do people in your circle or area all tend to vacation in similar spots? I lived in Houston and it seemed like all of our kids friends families were on a steady rotation of – Colorado, Disney, and Rosemary Beach.
Anon
Not really. I live in a college town with lots of immigrants, so people mostly visit family and then vacation in or near the place where they’re visiting family. Within the US there don’t seem to be popular spots except Disney.
Our family goes to Maine every summer and we have a few Caribbean beach resorts we’ve repeated, but otherwise rarely go back to the same spot twice.
Anon
Midwest college town and everyone goes to Disney. I’m the oddball for going to Mackinac Island and Williamsburg.
Anonymous
Mid-atlantic. Everyone goes to Virginia Beach, the OBX, or Disney World.
Anon
Philly – everyone goes down the shore. A bunch do the Poconos, but definitely less than the shore.
Cat
I think every area has its “go to” local spot. Like in Philly tons of families have their shore town. 30A makes a lot of sense for Houston!
Anonymous
Not my circle now, but growing up in Georgia, yes–pretty much every family at my school went to St. Simons or Sea Island. Then they all went to college at UGA. Then they grew up, moved back to our home town, and the cycle repeats.
New Here
I also grew up in GA (and went to UGA!), but NW. We always went down to Panama City Beach, and so did most of our hometown. Destin started gaining in popularity when I got older. I didn’t go to the GA beaches until college.
I didn’t move back home, but I definitely see the cycle you mentioned happening via social media.
Anon
Not at all. Tahoe is common (Bay Area) but it seems like people scatter all over the place. We go to the Russian River and I don’t know any other families / friends of my kids who do.
Anon
For local trip like a summer beach week, yes. There are a few popular places that are relatively close by that people go to. For other vacations, no. Except that Disney is common if you have kids of a certain age.
Anon
Yes – and I think a lot of it is driven by where we can get to easily (direct flight). I live on the West Coast. A LOT of people in my circle vacation in Hawaii or Costa Rica. My sister lives in the southeast and her circle all goes to the Caribbean if they have kids or Cancun if they do not because they have a lot of nonstop (and relatively affordable) flights from her main airport.
Anon
Managers – Do you like being a manager more or did you like being an IC more?
I often see articles about managers who did not want to manage or aren’t good at it or just wish they were doing their old job. I’ve never felt like that, though. Is wishing you were still an IC really that common?
Anon
I am not (yet) a manager but have been asked to consider it. Honestly, I like and am good at managing processes and projects but have no desire to manage other people. I have colleagues for whom managing people is a huge dream. I am not sure how far I can progress without taking on a managerial role, and neither am I sure I want to progress beyond that point if it is the price of admission.
anonshmanon
I see the same articles, and it makes me apprehensive even though I might be good at it. I think the crux is that managing people is a specific skillset, and in my world excellent ICs get promoted based on only that skill. Eventually they are expected to manage others, without additional training. So it’s kind of random and not always successful. Some people understand that they just need to learn this different skill and seek out resources, but not all recognize that or act on it.
anon
I’ve been OK with managing a small team that still allows me to do some IC work. I would have zero, and I mean zero, interest in taking on more direct reports. I don’t want to be a manager forever, but it made sense at the time I moved up into the position.
Cat
Staying an IC makes life a lot simpler for sure, but if you want to keep advancing in your career, you need to take on management in most fields. I like some aspects of managing (mentoring, advising, getting compliments when my team does a great job) but others (behind the scenes paperwork, having to address performance issues) are soul sucking.
Anon
I liked being a manager because I wanted to work with people, so the people aspect of the job really appealed to me. I think when you become a people manager only because you want a promotion, not because you actually want to manage people, that’s when problems can start.
Anon
I can see that. Those articles do scare me, but I really do like people management and organizing things and probably a lots of the other things that people don’t like about managing. And while I liked my IC work I’m not crazy about it. So maybe this works out
anon
I hated being a manager and am so happy to be an IC again. I was at my prior company for 9 years, 2 as an IC, 5 as a manager of 5-6 with a lot of “cross-functional influence,” and then the last 2 as a manager of 20-40. I was good at it but hated it, so maybe that means I wasn’t that great it, I’m not sure. I found it exhausting. Maybe it was my highly dysfunctional high school of a company too. Even though I was in-house I mostly managed non-lawyers, and a lot of the real legal work was sourced to outside counsel who were excellent. There was so much drama. Like, just ask for a PTO day and I’ll grant it no problem, I don’t need to hear about the lump you found in your husband’s groin. Like, just no. I had 2 employees (that I knew of) sleeping around, which just escalated the levels of drama. I’m so glad I’m done with that and I’m happy to take care of my own self.
CMS
I think I would say that I like it overall, but that there is high variability over time. I like building a team and working with individuals to grow and improve over time. I like the challenge to develop a strategy for my team and implement it to impact the overall organization. The opportunity to hire people means you have more influence over the direction your group and organization are headed.
That being said, it is painful when you have to deal with underperforming employees and other HR issues. I hate writing up the mid-year and annual reviews. And sometimes I struggle to listen with empathy when employees come complaining about one thing or another.
So all in all, managing people has been an important part of my growth path and a necessary to step to get to do the more strategic work that I find most interesting. So I wouldn’t want to revert to an IC.
Anonymous
I used to be a PI managing teams of up to 12 people. I recently took a senior individual contributor job. I do not miss the grants management or the performance reviews. I like being able to get hands-on with the actual work that I went to school to learn how to do. I miss being involved in setting strategic priorities for the organization, mentoring staff, and designing and running my own projects.
My current manager has very little management experience and seems to be struggling with project management and delegation, which adds to my frustration. She has more experience in the field than I do, but I have a lot more experience as a manager. I think she’s one of those who would be happier as a very senior individual contributor.