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Updated: Feb 29, 2024 329 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Open-Front Cardigan

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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A woman wearing a black and white cardigan, black top, and black denim skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m always stopping in the clothing section at Target to check out the latest and greatest, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the sweaters I’ve seen there.

This chunky, open-front cardigan is 100% cotton and looks so, so cozy. I would pair it with black ponte pants and my favorite work-appropriate T-shirt for a comfy Friday in the office.

The sweater is $30 and comes in sizes XS–4X. It's also available in seven other colors.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. EWF

    Easy question (hopefully!) for a weekend. I need a new runner by my front door — a place for people to leave their shoes and/or wipe shoes off. We have three kids and a dog so nothing precious, and it has to be low pile so the front door can go over the top without catching. Any favorites?

    • Anon

      I would get an LL Bean Waterhog. They absorb all the water tracked in and vacuum up easily. They still look new after years of use.

      • Vicky Austin

        +1 ours has stood up to our messy Labrador for 3+ years and basically looks brand new.

      • Anon

        I also really like ours, but unfortunately my cats do too. Mine looks decidedly not new, as it’s their favorite spot to puke, and it’s very annoying to clean vomit out of (paper towels get stuck in the bristles and it sucks up tons of water when you hose it off outside or in the tub and takes forever to dry). So just a warning, if your dog is a puker! Otherwise, they’re great, and the ones we have in the garage and mudroom do look fine, the cats just seem to have a bizarre attachment to the one at our front door.

      • Anon

        Question… this is what I have outside my door. Is it weird to have one inside the door too?

    • anonymous

      Are you talking about inside or outside? For inside I have and like Porte+ Hall rugs. They’re low pile and designed for entryways. I also have that LLBean one and am not impressed, the color is very drab and it stay wet forever. But that’s outside.

      • Anon

        Now I want their Porte + Hall’s Outlier rug. And I’m pretty happy with my LL Bean one (though I have a covered porch).

    • Digby

      A Ruggable rug might work. They come in a couple of pile levels and are washable. We have one and it’s pretty easy to vacuum.

      • anon

        Eh, I’ve never been happy with washing the 10 foot runner. It’s a great option if you are ok with having to replace it from time to time, and like to say, have a christmas runner at the holidays for variety.

    • Runcible Spoon

      I’ve used — and bear with me — a bath mat in a neutral gray color inside an exterior door — rubber backed, so the floor is protected, and absorbs plenty of water. Machine-washable, too! Not for everyone of course, but it works for me.

      • Anon

        Hah. I am currently using a dark green bathmat because it’s the one rug I own that the door isn’t catching on.

  2. Anon

    I bought a bunch of midi skirts (one wrap, two pleated, one in a plaid). I am having a hard time with outfits besides pairing them with the simplest solid white or black tee or sweater or pointy toe flats. Jackets all seemed to look weird, same with blouses. Are there insta accounts I should follow? I wish store would show more “as styled IRL” pictures or show more options vs just the plain item shown maybe with strappy sandals (no) and no hint of what is on the torso.

    • Anonymous

      What color are the skirts, what type of dress code are you dressing for, how old are you, and what kind of blouses are you trying to wear with them? A few thoughts:
      • By “jackets look weird,” what do you mean? Are you trying to wear the skirts with blazers? Bomber jackets? Denim jackets? Leather jackets? What lengths?
      • Proportions really matter. Tops should be tucked in, semi-tucked, or cropped. Or huge and boxy all around, if you want to embrace the “all volume everywhere” look.
      • Do you not have other colors than black and white, or is it that you don’t know what colors to wear with the skirts? If you tell us the skirt colors and the colors of tees/sweaters you have, we can help with pairings.

    • Clementine

      So for me, I find that Midi skirts are enough that I can only wear them with simple solid colored shirts. Actually, I like a turtleneck with a midi skirt on colder days. I do a low pony and try to embody a chic French woman. For me, if I do anything more than simple clean lines on top, it’s too much look.

      A friend can pull off white button down shirts with midi skirts – think that Carolina Herrera vibe – but she is also the type of person who can wear cropped wide leg jeans with the perfect ankle booty and chunky sweater and look glamorous. I – on the other hand – look like I had to get dressed out of the lost and found if I were to try the same outfit.

    • anon

      This is pretty much why I don’t wear skirts. I find them impossible to style! The proportions have to be just right, or it looks ten kinds of wrong.

      • anon

        I’d look at how Boden is styling midi skirts. I just got their spring catalog and they had a lot of cute midi skirt outfits. Definitely the top has to be either cropped to the top of the skirt and fitted, or tucked in.

    • Anonymous

      I say this as a midi skirt lover who wears them all the time, but skirts are not super trendy right now which is probably why it’s hard to find inspiration. In the winter, for shoes, I usually do sheer black tights with some sort of boot (chelsea, ankle, heeled mid calf, knee high, etc) or loafers (usually a chunkier oxford type loafer). For work I would do ballet flats, pointy toe flats or classic pumps. In the spring/summer, depending on the style of the skirt I will pair them with simple sneakers, birkenstocks, flat metallic sandals, etc.

      For tops, I also usually wear something simple on top because the skirts I have are patterned. Go to tops are usually a button down (white, black, denim), turtleneck, simple wrap top, boat neck, or an oversized sweater that I tuck in.

      • PolyD

        That’s funny that you say skirts are not super trendy because I swear it was just this week or last that someone else said that dresses are out but skirts are in!

        I have no useful advice re:midi skirts, but I agree that keeping your top simple and tucked or shorter is probably key.

    • anonnneee

      The cut of the midi skirt really matters. Is it a full skirt, pencil, mermaid? The material might also matter in how the silhouette appear.
      In general, if the skirt is full from the hips and down I’d say a cropped jacket/blazer is probably preferred.
      If the skirt is fitted in the hip, even if it is wide at the bottom, you can use blazers/jackets that are a little longer or wider. Longer and wider at the same time is advanced level styling, as is long blazers/jackets/cardigans. Too easy to look as if you escaped the 80’s or longing for the 70s.

    • NYNY

      This depends so much on your sense of style and the vibe of the skirts. Here’s my attempt at stores to look at for styling inspo:

      90’s minimal/ artsy/ urban – Modern Citizen, Vince, Frankie Shop
      Preppy – J. Crew, Boden
      70s/ boho – Ann Taylor (a-line midis only, their pencil midis have more of a Y2K vibe), Sezanne

    • PNWer

      Check out Blue Collar Red Lipstick. She favors midi skirts and has great style ideas.

  3. Anonymous

    I need a reality check. My work best friend is a gay man, I’m queer but not out at work to anyone except him. I made a gay joke to work best friend, someone overheard and called it ‘homophobic’ (while work best friend was audibly laughing) so I apologized to work best friend via official means (email) and I got the exact response I expected (he and hubs laughed about my joke over dinner and they were not offended). If the white knight goes to HR I’ll be fine right? I don’t want to be forced out of the closet by an eavesdropper for an in-group joke.

      • anon

        speaking with a professional hat on here…. you might have to sit through a purchase sensitivity training or something but if you are a good employee with no history of offending people and the target of your off color joke is a friend and wasn’t offended i wouldn’t worry too much

      • Anonymous

        It’s not okay for anyone to make jokes that seem to disparage a group of people or off-color jokes in the workplace, even if they are a member of the group they are joking about and/or they are a member of a historically disadvantaged group. Overhearing something said in a public place is not eavesdropping.

        • Anon

          Perhaps the person who overheard is in the closet and would prefer to remain that way, while also being in a workplace that doesn’t have gay jokes.

      • OP

        She’s really religious and has a few kids, maybe she’s secretly in th closer but even so the outrage wouldn’t have applied to her.

        Friend said he’s ‘too gay for sports’
        So I quipped back ‘hey dance is a real sport’.

        Friend is a dancer but it’s not common knowledge, so lady just assumed that I was calling dance gay.

        • TB

          LOL. Ok, I retract what I said below. There’s no way you get in trouble for this. (but…in the future, just like you wouldn’t make fun of a certain race or other protected class, don’t make jokes about sexual orientation.)

          • Anon

            Yeah, I feel like she’s offended because she’s a dancer? But I could be wrong.

          • Seventh Sister

            Are their straight ballerinas over the age of 12 that don’t interact with gay men, at least in the US and most European countries?

          • Anon

            @ Seventh Sister, all my adult ballet classes have been taught by and 100% attended by women. Of course if you’re a serious dancer you’d interact with gay men but I think if you’re just doing ballet for fun it’s not hard to be exclusively around women.

        • Anon

          This is a little different from what I was imagining and sounds like a misunderstanding.

          • Anonymous

            This sounds even more like OP is being mean and nasty towards a co-worker she doesn’t like.

        • Anon

          Okay, I don’t think being queer makes it okay to make homophobic jokes at work. But I have no idea how this could possibly be taken as offensive.

        • Anon

          I’m confused about why you had to apologize to Friend… his joke (saying he’s “too gay for sports”) was way more homophobic than saying jokingly “dance is a sport,” which is maybe offensive to dancers, but not gay people. I could understand if you both had to apologize to the bystander, but why would you have to apologize to friend?

          • Anonymous

            It’s not offensive to dancers specifically, it’s offensive because he is pretty much saying he doesn’t see dance as a sport, and that he dances because he is too gay for what he does see as a sport.

        • Anonymous

          You were. This is inappropriate for the work place. Pull yourselves together. She doesn’t have to be gay to be offended.

          • Anonymous

            What is hard about dont joke that gay people don’t like sports, don’t joke about gay people stereotypically liking dance.

        • Anonymous

          Your friend is pretty much validating the sterotype that gay men don’t belong in what society considers traditional men’s sports. That’s not really something he should say outloud at work.

        • No Face

          This is definitely not what I imagined! Guess she’s a religious lady who’s offended that dance is kinda queer?

          In the future, keep the “in group” jokes discreet in the workplace.

      • Anonymous

        My guess is that she’s assuming anyone in the closet would feel like part of the in-group and find the joke funny. And we all know what happens when you assume.

    • Anon

      It seems like you’re looking for validation that you were not in the wrong because you consider yourself part of the group in question. That’s incorrect. It sounds like your joke was inappropriate for the workplace, especially because you made it where other people were.

      • Cat

        yeah, OP was in fact off base here. Whether you’re gay or not is irrelevant for workplace jokes.

    • TB

      If it was just one comment, an apology and explanation that you understand the joke was not appropriate for the workplace will probably be all that is required from HR’s perspective. Maybe they’ll make you do some training or issue a written warning.

      However, you should know that it’s not a defense that you’re part of the group that the joke was about, as mentioned above. Therefore, telling HR that you’re queer probably won’t have the effect you imagine it might, although it might go to your credibility that you didn’t mean it in a homophobic way. But it doesn’t mean your joke was ok for the workplace. It’s no defense that you didn’t mean anyone to overhear, that you’re also queer, or that your friend found it funny. (We wouldn’t tolerate someone making racist comments even if they are part of the race they are talking about, right?)

      And, I know I sound like a stick in the mud! I’m an employment lawyer and given training on these topics regularly, and this is a big thing that I focus on in my training.

      • Anon

        We tolerate people making racist comments about their own group all the time. I do not disagree that it might get you in trouble with HR, but all you have to do is listen to rap music (or work with a group of Black or Hispanic people) to know that they say things that no White person could or should say regularly and without offense. And while anyone can complaint about anything anytime, I am having a hard time picturing HR taking it seriously if a White person complained that a Black person called another Black person “n”***** or a Hispanic person called another Hispanic person “cholo”. (No offense to anyone reading who is Hispanic; it is the most common word I hear used that I would never use myself.)

        • Anonymous

          Oh this happens at my office and we absolutely discipline people who do it. I don’t care what music does in the office we don’t use racial slurs.

        • TB

          I promise you that any HR department worth its salt would take those complaints seriously. What we tolerate in the workplace is VERY different from what we tolerate in the rest of society. I just finished an investigation where a supervisor called herself something derogatory, and she was fired for it. She’s perfectly welcome to use that word out in the wild, but the law requires that workplaces not tolerate its use.

          • Anon

            What did she call herself?! A b? That seems extreme. What a miserble place to work.

          • Anon

            What?!? Someone got fired for jokingly calling themselves a b!tch or something like that?! That’s insane! Are employees not allowed to swear, period?

        • Anon

          Okay… but what makes for inclusive professional workplace norms is entirely different from what is acceptable in a rap song. I think HR would take it seriously if that language were being used at work no matter who was using it?

        • anonshmanon

          I feel it’s reasonable to filter your humor a bit at work. In my private life I constantly make jokes about my little lady brain not understanding something, or other sexist tropes. Obviously I don’t mean that, I am making fun of people who think this way. And I have no problem talking about feminism at work, but I don’t do it in the form of (self)disparaging humor because of the potential for misunderstandings.

        • Anonymous

          Another perspective: the in-group jokes are often directed at bystanders as a kind of taunt or challenge. I dare you to be offended, to react visibly, to admit you overheard so we can accuse you of eavesdropping, etc. Which it sounds like might have been what was going on here. OP clearly doesn’t like the religious lady.

    • Anon

      (1) With OP’s clarification of exactly what she said, I cannot imagine any universe in which this is offensive to anyone.
      (2) People in marginalized groups make jokes/use terms that would be offensive if someone who is not part of that group said it all the time. And unless you are also part of that marginalized group you have absolutely no business policing how they talk to each other. While OP should probably not make those kinds of statements unless she wants to be out, it is not up to non-queer people to decide how queer people should talk to each other. (Or white people or thin people or . . . . )

        • Anon

          +1. I couldn’t imagine caring about this joke on a personal level. I also couldn’t imagine it being appropriate for work.

        • Anon

          How inappropriate? He is out and he is a dancer. He said gay people can’t do sports and she responded that dance is a sport (that he does). If anyone said something offensive it was him and not her – but again he was talking about his own group.

          • anon

            I concur. Nothing here was remotely inappropriate. Nothing here was a joke about being gay. If anything it was about dance?? The “Too gay for sports” comment, which came from friend and not OP, could be challenged as inappropriate but that’s not on OP.

            This is all very dumb or OP isn’t telling us everything.

          • pink nails

            +1 this. With the added context of what was actually said, I can’t even understand how it’s at all inappropriate.

          • anonshmanon

            so I guess the too gay for sports comment could be seen as offensive (doesn’t matter that it was self-disparaging), and maybe the more professional response would have been ‘hey that’s a boring old stereotype, and btw is dancing not a sport?’. This way you’d explicitly push back agains a harmful stereotype. But a) reality is not an HR training video and b) OP implicitly did that by my interpretation.

          • Anonymous

            The person in the wrong here is OP’s friend, but she would have been wise not to engage.

        • Anon

          I don’t understand people saying this particular joke wasn’t appropriate for the workplace. Not in a meeting or presentation, for sure, but I’m imagining two friends talking in the break room and someone else comes in to get water and hears their banter. There’s certainly a line for work convos, but this is a very mild joke about a group made by people who are in that group. We aren’t robots!

          • Anonymous

            No. Perpetuating a stereotype that gay men dance because they are ‘too gay for sport’ is though.

          • Vicky Austin

            But the bystander is reporting OP for saying “dance is a sport,” not OP’s friend for calling himself “too gay for sports.”

          • Anonymous

            The bystander was probably offended by the joke and is afraid to report the friend even though he’s really the problem because she would be accused of prejudice since she he’s out.

      • anecdata

        You’re off base here – within the workplace, yes, it’s ok to say XYZ slur or on-its-face racist/sexist/fat phobic/ableist etc language is unacceptable; even if the person saying it prefers using that term to refer to themselves. Different rules for workplaces vs social contexts (because bystanders have less freedom to remove themselves from hearing it in a work context)

        • Anon

          Yes. It’s always awkward at work when one person’s self-disparaging humor inadvertently generalizes to other people. I’m not arguing that it’s worth it to make the whole environment even less comfortable with excessive scrupulosity. But we need to have some self-awareness that we can’t always disparage ourselves without disparaging (or stereotyping, or mocking, etc.) others by implication.

      • Anonymous

        Those in-group jokes are not appropriate in the workplace, though, because their appropriateness relies on assumptions about who is in and who is not.

    • Anonymous

      What you said is not offensive. What you’ve learned is that many people are looking for things to be offended about, so you need to monitor what you say and not give them any thing to virtue signal about.

      • Anonymous

        I think there is more to the story here. From the fact pattern presented it sounds as if OP and the friend might actually have been taunting the reporter, whom they assume to be a repressed religious bigot.

        • Anonymous

          Agreed.
          The “joke” sounds like a baiting line from a larger conversation…
          I’m here laughing that a man actively involved in dance doesn’t know it’s a sport, lol.

        • Anonymous

          I am not seeing this At.All. OP specifically said the conversation was not intended to include the reporter and when asked if maybe the reporter was closeted, OP responded that she didn’t think that because reporter is religious and married with kids but OP couldn’t rule it out (by nature of what being closeted means). Not sure how we’ve leaped to this all being aimed at humiliating a closeted disliked co-worker.

      • OP

        Yeah you’re right. I need to be a robot 100% of the time, especially near the offended party. I’m not the best at suppressing my personality and identity, I accidentally let a little bit out which isn’t okay.

        • Anon

          Fwiw I’m with you. We’re always told from our DEI team that they want everyone to “bring their full selves to work” which IMO includes being able to make tame jokes like this. It’s not like you walked up to your friend were like “wuddup f@g” (which is totally something my gay friends would do IRL and something that I could actually see offending someone else). This seems like an extremely innocuous comment and I’m honestly shocked that there are people here saying this is on you. I’m glad that I work at a company that would not bat an eyelid at this. And I work for a very large company.

    • Seventh Sister

      There’s no need for you to disclose anything (and I wouldn’t because confidentiality in HR is at best a little porous). If you get called into HR, just apologize, say you won’t do it again, and at worst you’ll have to attend some kind of program.

      It’s entirely possible they won’t report to HR – people can be more comfortable saying something in the moment than making an official report. And it’s entirely possible that other person got called out for something similar, has a gay brother they love but goes to a church that isn’t accepting, you just don’t know what about their circumstances.

    • Anonymous

      You should not make jokes about sexual orientation at work. End of story. You were wrong. It sounds like you did make someone uncomfortable, which is not ok. They were not eavesdropping they were trying to work in a professional environment and had to listen to a gay joke they did not want to hear. You are 100% in the wrong and a reprimand by HR would not be out of line.

    • Anon

      I would probably try to find one with a texture/pattern that included green – like a tweed or something. I think a solid like black would look strange.

      • PolyD

        I like that dress a lot, and agree that something with texture or a very subtle pattern (does tweed count as a pattern?) would look better.

        Maybe explore jackets with some navy in them?

    • go for it

      Nice dress!
      A solid black with a caveat… a printed scarf if that is something you would be open to.

    • Anon

      BRF has a cotton pique military jacket in solids (navy, black, ivory) that I got to wear with similar dresses. It comes in a green but that green won’t work with your green. Ivory for spring or black? It is maybe $50. Has real pockets.

    • Shelle

      Cute dress! I think it would go well with several colors: light gray, dark gray, navy, brown, or camel.

      • Anon

        I have a bright pink tweed moto jacket from JCrew a few seasons back (I think Senior Attorney snagged the matching skirt from that season) and it is surprisingly versatile!

    • Anon

      Pretty dress! I agree that I would probably go with a chanel style open jacket in a tweed so as not to fight with the high neckline. Ann Taylor has lots of good tweed options now!
      In the fall/winter a houndstooth or plaid would look nice.

    • Anonymous

      Black, navy or taupe so long as the shoes you’re wearing match. The taupe would be what I would prefer most. As you head into summer, white or cream and shoes that are taupe or gold. I have a dress that’s similar, and I’ve gotten a ton of use out of it. I actually don’t like the scarf suggestion (scarves are out and I don’t think it’s needed). Tweeds are great in winter but start to look sort of weird in spring or can read more “church” than work.

  5. Retirement

    What would you like your company to give you as a retirement gift? I have the pleasure of picking a retirement gift for an attorney colleague, who has had a long and lucrative career. I am stumped for ideas – her and her husband are both retiring and can afford to buy anything they need. They are social, have one adult child, enjoy traveling, entertaining and working out. Any suggestions?

    • BeenThatGuy

      I had a colleague retire a while back who was a big traveler. When they retired, they had a trip booked on the Cunard (IYKYN). The company bought her a set of Louis Vuitton luggage.

        • BeenThatGuy

          Yeah, I’m realizing from the other responses this might not be the norm! I’ll lower my expectation for my retirement gift, when that day comes!

    • Clementine

      We’ve had a handful of retirements in our division recently and usually do a slightly humorous but useful small gift + gift card we know they’ll use. It’s been a hit with all of them, in part because it was thoughtful but useful.

      – One colleague whose retirement plans centered around a boat got a set of nautical Tervis tumblers and a gift card to an outdoors store (we asked his wife and she recommended the specific one he likes).
      – One CPA whose plans involve lots of golf got a golf ‘accessories’ set (another golfer picked it) and I know something was embroidered with First Last, Retiree (a club cover? Something) She got a gift card to the local indoor golfing super store.
      – My favorite is the colleague who said that they didn’t have big plans and needed to figure out a hobby in retirement. We got them gift cards for a variety of things – a gardening center, the local art center which offers al kinds of classes, REI, and the bookstore are the ones I remember.

      The only other one I can think of is someone who is just difficult to buy for and we got them a nice bottle of champagne and then made a donation to a local charity in their honor.

    • Anon

      Someone in my team retired after 20+ years with us. I collected handwritten well wishes from people across the company and put them in a box engraved with his name and the company logo. We got 40 or 50 notes from people. He was really moved.

    • Anon

      Thoughtful notes from coworkers and cash. If you absolutely don’t want to do cash, maybe a restaurant gift card?

      I love to travel but really dislike being given travel-related items as gifts, because I know what I like and have everything I need, since I travel so much already. I know other frequent travelers who feel similarly. It’s a nice sentiment, but something like a luggage set would be totally wasted on me.

    • Anon

      A coffee table-type book and then get everyone in the group or dept to sign the book with a nice note on different pages. Restaurant gift card to a nice place?

      • dancing star

        Agree – there is a bit of a leap from Louis Vuitton luggage to a coffee table book:-D

    • NYNY

      When my father retired, his company gave him a gift card for dinner for two at The French Laundry. He and my mother regularly traveled to Napa & Sonoma for wine tasting, and it was an experience they could totally afford but wouldn’t think of on their own. Perfect and really memorable.

    • Cat

      I think you either have to go Big (like the splashy luggage set) or go Sentimental here. If budget doesn’t allow for Big, the idea of a gathering of anecdotes and memories is a great one. Or if they’re taking a retirement celebration trip, having the firm pay for a little surprise – like having champagne waiting in the room – could be a relatively inexpensive but memorable thing.

    • Anon

      When I left a company after 20 years, they gave me a generous gift card from Open Table so I could use it anywhere. I would have appreciated it more had the company paid for it out of company funds rather than taking up a collection from people who had worked for me! I felt bad about that.

    • Senior Attorney

      My workplace somehow procured a proclamation from the City recognizing my contributions over the years. I was gobsmacked and delighted. Second faborite: a coffee mug that says ” the legend has retired.”

  6. Anon

    I’m about to start working in a federal government (U.S. Treasury) office after years of working from home. I’ve stocked up on sheath dresses – my question is, are bare legs okay these days? Should I be wearing tights/hose/stockings? I’m out of the loop. I’m in the southeast US and will be traveling to DC sometimes.

    • Anon

      I have a friend at main Treasuyy try and when she goes in, she wears mostly black pants that are comfortable and good-for-metro-escalators shoes. Nothing too formal but she looks more traditional above the waist (but a lot of cardigan jackets — I think that is the current look from a city that used to wear a lot of St John).

    • Anonymous

      I haven’t seen anyone wear skin-colored hose in at least a decade. Bare legs in warm weather, tights in cold weather.

    • Anon

      Fed here (not in DC but I used to be) and I haven’t seen anyone in hose.

      My current office is pretty casual, but when I worked in DC (different agency) it was pretty formal business casual (pencil skirt / slacks and blouse or sheath dress , blazer, heels; suits as needed) and no one wore hose (tights in winter, bare legs in summer). This was 8-10 years ago, FWIW.

    • anon a mouse

      Treasury is one of the more formal agencies in general, but you will be fine with bare legs.

    • Runcible Spoon

      Congratulations, by the way! A jacket type garment is your short-cut to always appearing in appropriate attire.

  7. go for it

    Crowdsourcing please help:
    Buying a house with a partner…what is the document called to structure any potential dissolution of the partnership?
    Type of attorney needed to draft such a thing? Recommendations in the Hudson Valley, northern NJ, or NYC?

    • Anon

      Romantic partner or business partner? NY has draconian rules for holdovers. I’d get a strong drink and read the Daily Mail about the most recent horror story.

        • Anon

          Are you funding equally and equally able to pay? Could one buy out the other if you broke up? I would never be in the debt for anything I wasn’t on the title to.

          You worry about breakups and deaths and basically should agree to hire one agent and sell if one can’t buy the other out or doesn’t want to. How you decide to allocate even house decisions is important and it the discussion gets ugly or goes sideways l, don’t do it. Also, you should probably have life insurance in each other if you co-own a house. How fun will it be to co-own a house with your SO’s mom or siblings if they die while you are co-owners. If you want to be joint tenants with survivor rights, you can do that but it doesn’t solve the money issue or the breakup issue.

      • Anon

        This is what she’s looking for. You’re going to want to get a really good, experienced attorney to draw this up for you and to advise on how to structure the purchase/deed. I’m not licensed in these states, but in my state, I advise 100% of the people I consult with to NOT do this. It never ends well, and a contract can only protect you so much. And it doesn’t prevent someone from trying to challenge the contract when things go sideways (which they almost always do) and one side or the other is now dissatisfied with their agreement. Then, you are out thousands of dollars in attorneys fees and hours upon hours of your time wasted, even if you ultimately prevail. My advice: One person buys the house. The other person helps with non-house/mortgage/real estate tax/improvement/maintenance expenses.

        • Anon

          This is also an issue with things like a beach house that siblings inherit. It starts well, but often ends with people angry and someone not speaking to the others. Often, one person needs $ and has to sell and no one can buy the other/ out so it is a deteriorating mess and eventually it gets sold late and for less. Not worth it IMO.

          • anon

            +1. My MIL and her 2 siblings inherited their parents’ house. It happens to be across the street from a private university and generates about $8000 in rent per month with almost no effort on their part. They sold the house in January. I am thrilled they sold the house now instead of leaving us with co-ownership issues. MIL has one sister who is single, has some mental health problems, and is semi-estranged from the family. I have no idea who she will be naming in her will, but I am VERY glad that DH will not co-own a house with a complete stranger.

      • Anon

        From someone who has been there: if your partner has an XW or kids, make sure to discuss with your partner and both of your attorneys how to protect you from her/them. My attorney recommended that we record our co-habitation agreement so that my partner’s XW would be on notice of its contents.

  8. Anonymous

    I ordered this cardigan after seeing it featured on another blog and returned it. It looks and feels cheap.

  9. Anon

    (Screams into void) When your lawyer daughter tells you that the conversation is OVER until you speak in person on Sunday, for the love of heaven, do not inundate her with messages doubling and tripling down on your position, telling her that she’s wrong and irrational, and the in-person conversation isn’t needed.

    This is your public service announcement.

    • Anonymous

      Sorry: this is frustrating. My husband and I have dealt with this a lot this week: both clients and family members. I’m not armchair diagnosing but calling over and over and refusing to let an issue drop is a sign of mental decay. Remembering this allows me to be slightly more charitable when dealing with these issues.

      • Anon

        That is my concern, mostly for other reasons that happened during the discussion.

    • Anonymous

      That’s boundary crossing behavior. Feel free to silence their msgs and not engage until Sunday

      • Anon

        Oh yeah, that’s pretty standard. In this particular case, there are other problems with a torrent of mockery, condescension, and “I know better than you do.”

      • pink nails

        +1 don’t respond; you told her when you would be available to discuss. I know, it’s WAY EASIER said than done.

        You may feel comforted to listen to the Glennon Doyle We Can Do Hard Things episodes on emotionally immature parents and people with Lindsay C. Gibson. Episode 263, 264, 284. Those first couple episodes were very validating to me in a surprising way.

  10. Anon

    I could’ve sworn there have been conversations here about pushing your doctor for more thyroid testing because the basic version that they order doesn’t tell the whole story. Does anyone know what I’m talking about? All I know for sure is that I always always always have to self advocate with doctors.

    • Anon

      Are you talking about a primary care doctor, or an endocrinologist who specializes in the thyroid?

      Thyroid problems are very common in women, especially as we age/mid-life, and many women have their PCP manage it. In this day and age, medicine has become complicated enough that it is worth having a specialist for many (most?) of your chronic medical problems. Think of a PCP as a triage person, who makes sure you get your flu shot and colonoscopy on time, and maybe gives you a script for antibiotics if you get a UTI. But if you have a chronic medical problem, it’s better to get hooked in with the proper specialist. There is no way a PCP can keep up to date with treatments over time.

      So common things discussed on this site that often deserve seeing a specialist are stomach/digestion issues, thyroid problems, perimenopause, mood issues (depression/anxiety). A PCP can get you started, but it is better for you long term to transition to an expert if your symptoms are not rapidly resolved.

      And once you hit mid-life, I encourage you to have a PPO plan and pay a bit more for the better health insurance networks. That’s when you can be hit by more surgeries, auto-immune/cancer diagnoses, easier injuries with exercise/aging etc…. and you want to keep all of your options open.

      • Anon

        This is a good idea.
        I have ordered lab tests online before, that then send me to the local LabCorp/Quest to have to the blood draw. No doctor involved.

    • Thyroid Issues

      Anon gave you a long response but I can tell you as someone middle age dealing with thyroid issues, my PCP is NOT managing my issues well and I’ve had to move to an endocrinologist just to have my concerns actually taken seriously and get the correct testing/diagnosis/med changes. Don’t let anyone make you feel bad for advocating for yourself and changing your medical team.

    • Anon

      The optimal range for TSH has changed over the course of our lives, so it’s important to know if our doctor is up-to-date on what a good TSH really is! (When I was younger, they’d only treat to the optimal range if we were TTC, which was especially frustrating since so many of us felt better on that dosing, but we could only have it if it was purportedly for some future baby!)

      Most of us want to know if we have autoimmune antibodies or not, especially if we have vague autoimmune symptoms that could be benefited by some simple off label med like LDN, or if we need to be aware that we could develop another autoimmune condition (autoimmune thyroid disease is more common than its comorbidities, but we’d stil want to know if we also developed Celiac or PA, which are two conditions doctors often miss; I’m not sure if the high rate of non-Celiac gluten sensitivity in autoimmune thyroid disease represents undiagnosed Celiac, but definitely not all autoimmune thyroid patients have a problem with gluten so it’s something more than just autoimmune thyroid disease).

      Some doctors “don’t believe in” T4/T3 conversion issues (possibly because functional medicine providers filled the gap for many years while the American Thyroid Association insisted without evidence that this wasn’t something to worry about). They have a point that conversion issues can be a transient effect of stress, poor sleep, etc. so they aren’t always something that needs to be treated with thyroid meds.

      Dr. Jacqueline Jonklaas and Dr. Antonio Bianco are two names to know who are mainstream academic medicine. Younger endocrinologists can be more up-to-date since they were educated more recently. Some providers will still recoil from expanded testing because it was an alternative/functional medicine thing for so long. Some patients will still try to find a functional provider, but I feel this is buyer beware since as endocrinology corrects itself, alternative providers are losing some of their niche market, and I’ve heard of some practices (TSH suppression, adjusting dose on a daily basis) that I think are overutilized at best.

        • Anon

          It’s mostly jargon even when it’s all spelled out! TTC = trying to conceive. T4 is levothyroxine and T3 is liothyronine, but the “full panel” controversy usually also involves reverse T3 and is more complicated. LDN is low dose naltrexone. PA is pernicious anemia. TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone (so low TSH means too much thyroid hormone, high TSH means not enough thyroid hormone).

    • No Problem

      Are you asking which tests should be run to get a full picture of thyroid function? At the outset, when trying to determine if you have a properly functioning thyroid, I’d recommend thyroid autoantibodies, TSH, T3, and T4. You’re basically trying to see the whole picture to see where the feedback loop is breaking down: the thyroid produces T4, which is then converted to T3, and then the pituitary gland produces TSH in response to how much T3 is circulating to tell the thyroid how much T4 to produce. After initial diagnosis, many doctors will only run TSH, or TSH and T4. But some people also fail to convert to T3 properly, so that can be helpful to see in comparison with the other lab results. However, if medication brings your TSH in line and you’re feeling well, subsequent T3 tests probably aren’t needed because that part of the feedback loop is shown to be not the problem (the problem is typically under or over production of T4). Once the autoantibodies hit a positive, I don’t think there’s much clinical use in running that test again. It indicates that you have Hashimoto’s and the level of autoantibodies isn’t well correlated with your actual thyroid function, so change over time isn’t clinically relevant (as far as I’m aware). You can also have autoantibodies for years before your thyroid function actually declines enough to warrant medication. If you have an enlarged thyroid, an ultrasound should also be ordered to measure nodules and rule out tumors (this might be repeated once a decade or so).

      Another thing to keep in mind is that the “average” range for TSH is quite large, something like 0.5-4.5 (it has shifted a bit over the years). If you’re hitting toward the top end of the range and you do have positive autoantibodies, most endocrinologists will recommend that you medicate to bring your TSH to the lower end of the range (below 2.5 is also what’s recommended during pregnancy, so you should be running below that if you’re planning to get pregnant or could get pregnant). There’s also a difference between “average” and “optimal” for each individual. I’ve discovered that I feel overall much better if my TSH is well below 2, so my endocrinologist adjusts my dose as needed to keep me there.

      Any other thyroid people have more to add?

      Side note: it blows my mind every time I read a story about someone who suffered for years with fatigue, weight gain, etc. and it’s finally all solved when one magical doctor finally decides to run a thyroid panel. It’s such a common disorder and common blood test. Palpating the thyroid is also a standard part of physical exams.

      • No Problem

        That should read “average” for the general population and “optimal” for each individual.

    • Anon

      Thanks all. I got a low TSH result back with normal T4 and I’m struggling to remember conversations I’ve heard (here and elsewhere) about how you really need a full thyroid panel to understand the nuances. I have a call in to my doctor but I want to educate myself as well.

      • Anon

        A lot of what people are talking about is Hashimoto’s/hypothyroidism related. You may also need to look up Grave’s.

        UpToDate (if you have library access through a local library) or Medscape (just need a free account) often have good overviews of the basics.

      • No Problem

        Yeah, this might veer into Graves’ disease territory (hyperthyroidism), but you should ask to have values rechecked in 6-8 weeks to see whether this was an anomalous result or a true trend. Look up symptoms of Graves to see if any of them fit. I don’t know much about the proper diagnosis pathway for Graves. Treatment (once symptoms/values reach a clinically significant point) I think typically involves “killing” the thyroid and then supplementing with synthetic hormone to make up the difference (maybe there’s a medication option now to make your thyroid less hyperactive? not sure).

  11. Anon

    I received an invite to a Consero General Counsel Forum where my hotel accomodations will be paid for and no registration fee. Is this legit? Am I going to have to sit through a lot of sales pitches? worth it?

    • Bewitched

      I’ve been to these. You do have to sit through private/individual sales pitches, but you can pick which ones you prefer. So, say your employer is never going to use Ropes & Gray, you don’t have to be scheduled with them. For me, it’s usually two or three pitches of say a half hour/45 minutes? I find the conference itself somewhat helpful in that it’s a good crowd to mingle with, ask some highly specific questions of people in the same industry as you are. The presentations can vary-from good but general to highly specific (but possibly not relevant to you). I like the fact that I can reach out to other attendees with a question or two from time to time, they are usually accomodating if you say, we were both at the Consero conference in _____. I don’t go every year.

    • Anonymous

      Yes – it is legit! I am an equity partner at a law firm and we sponsor a Consero event (they are segregated by practice area). I attended a forum as my firm’s representative, and all of the attendees I interacted with thought the program was worthwhile. Some had attended multiple forums over the years and keep coming back. Attendees are limited to GCs (i.e., no Assistant GCs, Deputy GCs, etc.) and the forum gives them the opportunity to discuss issues they encounter with their peers. You may be asked to attend 1-3 “business meetings” with forum sponsors; however, some attendees don’t attend any meetings. Happy to answer any additional questions.

  12. Anon

    My PSA for the day: If you are an executive assistant and the executive you support has other (non-administrative) direct reports, they are allowed to meet with the executive, glance to see if the executive is in, call, email or otherwise communicate with the executive, and generally work with the executive without the need for you to approve or micromanage every interaction. You are annoying everyone. The executive, their direct reports, uninvolved colleagues in your vicinity, everyone. You are not “managing the executive’s calendar” or “facilitating collaborative interactions” you are being nosy and bossy in a way that makes everyone’s job more difficult and not easier. Just stop.

    • Cat

      does the exec know? If this were happening with my exec boss’s admin, I would say “hey exec, I want to sanity-check how I reach out for time with you – Carol’s asking me for a detailed agenda before scheduling”

    • Anon

      Are you 100% sure the executive hasn’t told the admin to run stronger interference?

    • anonchicago

      This is so, so dependent on the executive and the EA.

      My SVP prefers everything go through his EA and she gatekeeps that hard. If he has something urgent, he’ll reach out to me directly over Teams or cell, and after hours he would just call or text. But if his direct reports even schedule something with him without going through the EA they’ll get an earful.

      For my VP (I report to him), I just schedule time when he’s available or ping if he’s green or see him visibly free in the office. His admin (who used to support me as well) does not appreciate this and asks me to go through her, problem is it takes 2 days for her to get back to me and VP would prefer I go direct as well.

    • Anon

      Ah my old head of office had an EA like this. If she liked you, you were in. If she didn’t, you were never seeing him. Fortunately she liked me.

      The truth is, the exec very likely knows what’s going on and has advised the EA to keep the schedule clear. Your issue is really with him/her and not the EA.

      • RiskedCredit

        This!

        The executive assistant of my previous manager was a toxic extension of him. He used her as an excuse all the time.

        Find a new role. Your boss is a dick to not be upfront with how he expects to be managed and not open to you having the conversation.

  13. help

    I just tested positive for covid, it’s my second time (first was summer 2022). I couldn’t get paxlovid then – urgent care wouldn’t give it to me – and I had what was considered mild covid but was def the sickest I have ever been (I am lucky) followed by several weeks of post-viral fatigue where I truly couldn’t work much or leave the house.

    So far my symptoms are much milder but it appears I can get paxlovid from telehealth doc. I am so torn – it seems like half the people think it’s not worth the side effects and half think it is!

    Anyone speak to their own experience with paxlovid recently?

    • Anon

      I’d get it because you had post-viral fatigue last time. It’s been shown to reduce the incidence of long Covid.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think you as a layperson can reliably predict the future course of your infection or your individual likelihood of long COVID from your symptoms at the outset, when it’s still early enough to get Paxlovid. What we do know is that COVID can be awful and that long COVID happens a lot. To me reducing those probabilities was worth the potential side effects of Paxlovid, which go away when you finish it.

    • Anon

      Are you positive of when your symptoms began? I had a sore throat for over a week before testing positive (in retrospect I didn’t test until my worst day) so it was unclear when my symptoms exactly started, and I didn’t want to take it with the possibility that I was already too late. I’ve also heard awful things about the taste, and being pregnant I was pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to swallow something disgusting. So I chose to go without.

      • PolyD

        The taste of the actual pills isn’t bad. It’s just that afterwards, you can have a bitter metallic taste in your mouth for a while. I found that if I ate when I took the pills, it wasn’t as bad. And it goes away within a few hours – I did wake up in the middle of the night a few times (my doses were morning and evening) thinking WTF did I eat, but I would have a lemon cough drop and it would pretty much go away.

        So, I would not let potential Paxlovid mouth deter you.

    • TB

      My husband took it recently and didn’t have any side effects (and it worked). I’d get it.

      • help

        thanks all.
        Exposed Sunday, light symptoms Weds night, positive test this morning.
        My scrip is ready in an hour so I think I am going for it.

    • anonymous

      If I had a bad case before, I’d certainly give it a shot. It won’t hurt anything to try it.

    • Anon

      I’d want paxlovid and/or metformin to reduce risk of long COVID. Side effects go away but it’s those weeks (or more) post-infection symptoms that I want to avoid.

      • Anonymous

        I asked my pulmonologist to prescribe metformin and he refused, but it’s worth a try.

    • Anon

      Some things to consider/discuss with a health care provider:
      * there is evidence that Paxlovid either helps prevent long COVID or does nothing (but no evidence that it is harmful)
      * every time you have COVID is another chance to develop long COVID
      * rebound happens both with and without Paxlovid (if your MD has not read up about this, find a new one)
      * the window to take Paxlovid is short, so if you wait to see whether you develop more symptoms, it may be too late (and then you’ll be fighting to get an infusion instead)

    • smurf

      I took paxlovid in 2022 (first time w/ covid) and it kept it pretty mild. I used good-flavored cough drops after taking the pills and never got ‘paxlovid mouth’. I got covid again in fall 2023 – did not get paxlovid as I didn’t feel too ill (had tested more out of precaution) – I got very ill. Took me way longer to get better. if i get covid again, I will 100% get pax if I can. I also really, really don’t want long covid which is another big factor.

    • Former Junior Associate

      I took Paxlovid summer 2022. Metallic taste, no rebound, very mild symptoms and nothing lingered. No regrets; would take again.

    • Runcible Spoon

      I took Paxlovid in January one day after exhibiting symptoms. That was my first/only time I had COVID-19. I had a metallic taste in my mouth during the course of medication, which immediately disappeared. I was one of the unlucky patients who was very sick for about two weeks, and then limped through another two to three weeks of semi-sick leave, just doing triage and monitoring emails, and then an additional FOUR weeks of fatigue and having to take things easy, not socialize (too exhausting), etc. It was only NINE WEEKS after I was first sympmtomatic that I genuinely felt rested and recovered fully. I shudder to think what might have happened if I did not take the Paxlovid treatment.

  14. Help style this….

    Thanks in advance for help…trying to style a black square neck sweater with gauzy, textured sleeve sweater for a daytime family event. Context-SEUS, weather for event is to be in the upper 60s/low 70s. My initial thoughts were black dress or maroon dress pants, but that seems very plain in contrast to sleeves. Wanting to tone down the dressy factor a bit but trying to wear the sweater to honor a family member. TIA.

  15. Anonymous

    We were out until nearly midnight last night for a kid’s high school event and then just after I fell asleep a CO alarm decided to start chirping because it had reached the end of its life and it took two sleep-deprived people way too long to figure out which alarm was the culprit while the dog rushed around in a panic. And a report is due to the client today. Please send coffee.

    • Anon

      Solidarity. We were up in the night with a vomiting kid. She’s resting in bed now but I can’t go out for my usual Panera coffee run since she’s in no shape to be loaded into the car. I’m thinking about having Panera delivered to my house which feels so indulgent but… I need coffee.

    • Anon

      Sympathy!!! Mine is usually a hard wired fire/Co2 system THAT CANNOT BE TURNED OFF once it starts unless and until whatever has set it off is resolved. Sometimes it’s dust, yeah dust, on a sensor! Sometimes it’s a back up battery although I have started changing them twice a year to preempt that. Once in a blue moon it’s me in the kitchen burning toast. The alarm sound is head splittingly loud and very shrill. It sounds just like a commercial building alarm. The dogs are traumatized by the noise when it happens. As am I. I will never, ever, ever buy another effing house with this kind of system. It has been fully replaced twice and still does it. And my house is not dusty. Far less dusty than average I would guess.

      • Cat

        aren’t hardwired systems required by many building codes now, even for SFHs? They are going to be impossible to avoid…

        • Runcible Spoon

          Yes, my contractor installed hard-wired smoke alarms when I renovated my house about ten years ago. It’s required by the code. Perhaps this can be avoided if you purchase an older home that has not had any permitted improvements (which would require an inspection to clear the permit, meaning current code requiring hard-wired smoke alarm would apply). But then you would be purchasing an older, un-renovated home. And as soon as you decide to renovate, bam, the current building code would kick in.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      Why is it smoke/CO alarm batteries always seem to die in the middle of the night instead of like 2 in the afternoon?

      • OP

        I googled it when I couldn’t fall back asleep in the wee hours. Apparently it’s a real phenomenon caused by low temperatures’ reducing battery efficiency (the same reason your car battery always dies overnight in winter) or, for hard-wired systems, by fluctuations in line voltage at night.

    • anon

      Ugh. Our fire alarm’s batteries went out in the middle of the night a couple of weeks ago. DH was sick and sleeping in the guest room, which was nearer to the alarm that was chirping, so he heard it and got up to fix it. But he had taken Nyquil that night and somehow managed to convince the fire alarm that he was tampering with it, setting the alarm off. ADT called me, but I had been asleep and didn’t answer my phone in time. So, the fire department showed up in the middle of the night. We reassured them everything was fine, and they left. DH went back to changing the batteries, and the fire alarm went off again. I at least answered the phone in time, and ADT disabled the alarm until 10 am. It took me a couple of hours to fall back to sleep though.

      Silver lining – our 8 year old slept through the entire thing.

  16. Daffodil

    I have to do 2 Truths and a Lie at a team meeting in a few hours and I am stressing over it. I’m fairly new at the job. I’m completely drawing a blank as to anything interesting I’ve ever done. Do you all have any go-tos?

    • Anon

      Hobbies, sports, jobs you worked in high school or college, classes you took in college, concerts you have been to, places you traveled to, famous people you have met….

      It’s an office, so it might not be so much about being interesting as being office appropriate.

    • Anon

      I played flute in high school band, so I usually say I play piano, I play accordion, and I play flute or something like that.

      • Anonymous

        This is a good strategy–pick three statements in the same category, two of which are true.

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t worry about making them super-interesting, but conversation starters are good! Don’t stress.
      I played ___ sport in middle school.
      My last vacation was to ____
      The best book/TV show/movie I read/watched last year was ______
      When I was a kid I wanted my job to be ______
      My favorite local restaurant is _______

    • Anonymous

      I hate playing two truths and a lie.
      I hate playing two truths and a lie.
      I love playing two truths and a lie.

    • Anonymous

      What jobs have you worked, where have you lived, what sports have you played, where have you traveled? Pick two things you have done, and one you haven’t: “I’ve worked as a dishwasher, played basketball, and traveled to Thailand.” “The lie is traveling to Thailand–but I want to go there!”

      Since you’re new, anything is interesting and gives your new coworkers a way to chat with you about a common interest.

    • Vicky Austin

      Childhood hobbies/activities are good, like “I did gymnastics for ten years” or “I can play the piano.” I also like to use my (few) encounters with famous people. Or I once confounded an entire group with “I can speak Swedish, I lived in Sweden for a year and I have met the King of Sweden.” (I haven’t met the King of Sweden – but I know someone who has!)

      Also, this gives me the opportunity to tell an Obnoxious Boss story. My team was out to lunch on a client day once when the partner insisted we all play 2 Truths. One of his 3 facts was “I used to be on a weekly TV show.” It turned out that he was referring to his church’s weekly livestreaming of their services during the pandemic. I posit that that is not the same thing as being on a weekly TV show.

    • Anonymous

      Did you win any awards as a child? No matter how minor! Those were used a lot when I played at work recently. Also places traveled, favorite cities, sports played.

    • dodod

      How about something like:
      I have x books/bikes/kittens/whatever
      Visited z countries/restaurants/museums in y days
      Benchpressed 100 pounds/ ran an x mile
      Made my own…

    • Anon

      ___ in my family survived a lightning strike. I was in an avalanche. I ran into a bear in the mountains last year.

      Can you tell I like outdoor/survival/slightly unusual but technically possible lies?

    • A.n.o.n.

      some prompts:
      celebrities you’ve met/seen
      hot takes on food (I don’t like tacos)
      unusual pets/hobbies/childhood experiences/unrelated jobs
      dream job as a child

      I don’t think they have to be interesting, and I’d def err on the side of mildly interesting but innocuous

      • Anon

        That’s gonna get you in front of a microphone before you know it. The group will find a way.

    • Anon

      Perhaps I am old, but I see this as an opportunity to control the office narrative about you. Everyone talks about bringing our authentic selves to work, but just know that what people will remember what you say in this “game” for a long time, especially the people who don’t work with you much and thus won’t have lots of other data about you. Not trying to freak you out and there are lots of good suggestions here. In my law firm, I would have tended toward the travel and sports and far, far away from cooking/baking/crafting. I know it’s not fair, but there it is.

      • Anon

        Same. “I’m a great athlete” gets more respect with men than “I have mad baking skillz.” Sad, but I play the game in front of me, not the one I wish were being played.

      • anon

        I have endured many rounds of 2 Truths 1 Lie and I cannot remember a single thing anyone has ever said in any of them.

      • smurf

        lol what? I have done this game or similar many times in work groups and the only time it gets ‘remembered’ is if someone shares something wildly inappropriate or over time they develop a go-to. E.g. one of my managers always uses a specific celeb encounter as theirs, so we tease the new hire to prepare for their XYZ story!

      • anon

        I doubt anyone will remember innocuous hobbies in Two Truths and a Lie. That said, since you’re new, I probably would try for one truth that has the potential to make a connection with other people–travel, skiing, sports, hobbies, taste in music, interest in art or theater etc.

  17. anon

    Random fashion queries on a Friday morning:

    1) What is it about going on vacation that makes me think I need to buy new things for travel? It’s kind of ridiculous; what I have is probably fine and nobody cares anyway.

    2) I have a bunch of thin cotton sweaters that I essentially wear as long-sleeved t-shirts. I have them folded on a shelf in my closet, but it always turns into a messy stack of fabric. If I start hanging them, am I going to stretch them out and ruin them?

    • Anonymous

      1) because it is fun to wear something new on vacation – I’m completely the same way.

    • Anon

      Part of travel’s appeal for me is novelty so I think it just goes hand in hand!

    • Sunshine

      What about using that hanging thing made for leggings that was featured here a few weeks ago? Instead of rolling up leggings to store, you can store the sweaters.

    • Anonymous

      Because packing for vacation highlights stuff about our clothes that we don’t see when we’re just wearing them on repeat in the same ol’ places.

      And because we have a certain way we want to look when we’re in X location, and we don’t have the clothes in our closets for looking that way.

    • No Problem

      1. Sometimes our wardrobes are not appropriate to the weather/climate/formality/location of our vacation.

      2. I hate hanging knits (especially ones with defined shoulders like a long sleeved top) because they get stretched out in general and in the shoulders in particular from the corners of the hangers. You need to put them in a drawer.

    • Cat

      1. Because it’s fun. And because sometimes you want a breezy dress that only suits the mood in the Greek islands even if at home it’s not your life.
      2. If you use the right size hanger they’ll be fine. Think department store plastic hangers with the sloped shoulders, not standard straight wire or plastic ones.

    • PolyD

      1. Because it’s fun. And because sometimes you want a breezy dress that only suits the mood in the Greek islands even if at home it’s not your life.
      2. If you use the right size hanger they’ll be fine. Think department store plastic hangers with the sloped shoulders, not standard straight wire or plastic ones.

    • Cerulean

      You’ll have to Google, but there’s a method to fold sweaters over a normal hanger by draping the arm/armpit area around the hook that doesn’t stretch them out! No new gadget necessary.

    • test run

      1) Solidarity – it’s really hard to resist the allure of “this is how I’ll dress when I’m in Paris!”
      2) I hang sweaters on puffy, silky hangers – if you search “padded hangers” I think they’ll come up. They’re kind of goofy looking, but they prevent the sweaters from getting stretched out.

      • Anon

        Haha oh the imaginary Vacation Me who is going to wear all of those things I never wear at home.

    • rent rent rent

      1- I sometimes do a Nuuly or Rent the Runway for vacations, it’s around $100 which is about the same as my typical pre-vacation panicked Target run. cooler, better quality stuff and since you tend to be photographed more on vacation, it kind of makes sense to not wear normal stuff? Truly loving Nuuly, I always buy at least 2 pieces.

      • BeenThatGuy

        I do the same. If I’m going to an island, my suitcase is packed with rented Farm Rio dresses and such.

  18. Finally

    I think I posted a couple times about this looking for advice …but my divorce was FINAL a couple days ago.
    I moved out of our family house into an apartment 1.5 years ago and I am so happy.

    Super scary and sad at many times – I’m now back in the house, getting ready to sell it.

    It was so many years of yelling, blaming, and putting up with what I knew was extreme dysfunction. So happy I now have my future wide open.

    • Anon

      Thank you for posting this. Going through this right now and oh my gosh the number of days I just cannot see how this could possibly get better are just too many!

      • Anonymous

        OP here – there was a quote that I often thought about:

        “It might not turn out how you expect – it might be so much better”

        Also – I’m about to head to Europe with my sexy, fun boyfriend- yes life is good! You have to get through it.

    • Vicky Austin

      The only way out is through, as Senior Attorney says, and you got through! Congratulations!

    • Anon

      Good for you! Thanks for coming back to share that life is indeed better on the other side.

      Why is divorce so expensive? Because it’s worth it.

    • RiskedCredit

      Congratulations!

      I will be divorced for 2 years at the end of May. I hope if you have children the coparenting goes well.

    • Anon

      Good for YOU!My divorce from my awful, angry, narcissist was just finalized. Last night I had a private dance party in my home Soooo much better without him. Worth every stress and penny to LIVE without his constant bitterness.

  19. Anon

    Ughhhhh I told someone “I appreciate you” this morning before I could stop myself. Heeeelp

    • Anon OP

      There was a discussion yesterday afternoon where people said it was SO WEIRD, and now I’m super self conscious!

      • pink nails

        But how did you use it? At the end of a phone call as you were saying bye? or genuinely to someone?

        Because if it’s the second, please don’t feel weird!

        If it’s just the way you end every phone call with random people… well, I’m going to think it’s weird but also yolo, other people like it. I can 100% handle being the weird one on this one.

        And also I presume you’re not a middle age business man who is trying to sell me things, so inherently you’re going to come off as much less skeezy to me.

      • anon

        I missed that discussion yesterday. I once had a client who said “I appreciate you” frequently. She typically said it when signing off on a call, but it sounded genuine every time. We were dealing with some hard stuff, and it felt good to hear it. Before getting to know this woman, I probably would have voted for “that’s weird” if it came up on this site. When she said it, it was no natural and just *her* that it never occurred to me as being weird (until this thread). So, my vote is to keep rocking “I appreciate you” if it feels right to you.

    • Former Southener

      For the people who are confused, there was a post about this yesterday and a lot of people have deemed it “weird”. But for today’s OP: This Board is not real life (it took me way too long to realize that). And even if it was, there is nothing offensive about “I appreciate you” and if people find it weird, that is one them and not you.

      I am willing to change my speech to try to avoid offending people (although I still cringe every time I use “they” as a singular” but I do it). But I am not going to excise every regionalism from my speech on the off chance some 20-something in another part of the country is going to think “how odd”.

      • Anonymous

        +1000000. This board thinks normal behavior is weird and pathological and you need to go to therapy and also invite everyone you’ve ever met to your wedding.

      • anonshmanon

        Roses are red, violets are blue. Singular ‘they’, is older than singular ‘you’.

      • Anon

        This board got out the torches and pitchforks for someone who said “dance is a sport.” So yes, this place is not real life.

    • Anonymous

      If you said to someone to express how you genuinely feel about them, not weird at all. Lovely, in fact.

      If you said it to a stranger or acquaintance as a habitual way of ending a conversation, no matter who you’re talking to or what you’ve been talking about, then . . . yeah . . . I’d find that odd.

      • Anon

        Said genuinely, not at all weird! I say ‘I appreciate it!’ instead of ‘thanks’ often, BUT ending a conversation that way (‘I appreciate it!’ vs. ‘bye!’) is really odd to my ear.

      • pink nails

        +1 all of this. I was the one who originally posted the pet peeve yesterday and it was specifically in reference to the second paragraph. I maintain that it’s weird when business associates who you barely know end every phone conversation this way. It feels overly friendly and performative.

        If I know you well, and you’re really telling me that you actually appreciate me/my work, and it’s not just something you say at the end of every phone call – that is wonderful.

    • Anon

      I saw the banter yesterday about the origin of the phrase. I thought it originated in the black community and filtered through to the general public. There is a John Mulvaney bit on SNL with that phrase and my black clients often say that to me. It feels sweet to me, but it could be how the person delivers the message.

  20. Anon

    I’m inheriting a MCM mahogany dresser that I have a sentimental attachment to. It’s in good shape but I think needs a gentle sanding and restraining after decades of use and being moved. Can I do this or will I do it poorly or never finish? And are there places where you could rent time in a wood shop vs try to do outside under a tarp in case it rains? I’m the urban grandkid but no one else in my family does woodworking anymore. I wish I had a kid in shop class to do this as a class project but I don’t. I don’t want to be too DIY ambitious but as a kid I did take wood shop and did a stellar job learning how to do things and used to do nothing but Habitat builds on weekends.

    • NYNY

      I would find someone to do this for me because I wouldn’t want my first project to be on something with sentimental value.

    • Anonymous

      Refinishing furniture is about attention to detail and not skipping steps. As long as you have those two down it will fine. Make sure you use appropriate sand paper (plus blocks for any weird shapes), sand with the grain, sand evenly, wood conditioner, stain, and appropriate finish. Depending on the existing finish it might be best to strip before sanding.

    • Anonymous

      I would hire someone because I would not want it to look like a DIY or ‘my kid takes woodshop’ project…

    • Cat

      Doing this DIY for the first time is a job for the $20 side table you found at Goodwill, not a sentimental piece.

    • Anonymous

      I would watch a bunch of videos, psych myself up, and decide to diy. I would purchase everything I need and get started. Halfway through sanding, I would probably get bored and decide it is too dusty, too tedious, has too many nooks and crannies, and my arms are getting tired. And then I would realize it is taking too long and an hour or two of my actual job would easily pay for someone else to do it, and do it better. It might then sit there, unfinished and unusable, for several years.

    • Anon

      There will be places near you that do this. Make sure you’re able to see pieces they’ve done before, not just someone who is starting a “side hustle” based on something they saw on Tik tok.

    • Anon

      It depends on whether or not it’s solid or veneer. You want to make sure that you don’t only partially sand off the finish and then restain it in the wrong color – it’ll look blotchy and weird. Refinishing a solid piece of furniture is definitely a diy project that you can do outside, though.

    • Anon

      I’ve done it and the trick is to get it prepped until you think you’re ready to oil or stain, then leave it overnight (for the weekend, a couple of days, whatever), come back with fresh eyes and go over it again. Then leave it and come back and go over again. Repeat as many times as needed until it’s prepped to your liking. Now that I’ve done it a few times, it’s around 3 for me, but the first pieces I did I kept missing spots.

    • Marie

      One thing to know is that vintage mahogany furniture is usually veneer rather than solid wood, so refinishing can be difficult — not much room for error.

    • Runcible Spoon

      Find an expert professional to do this for you. Second-hand furniture vendors, particularly MCM specialists, might offer this service or have recommendations. You don’t want to devalue the piece with a botched refinishing job.

    • Anonymous

      As someone who also inherited a piece that was sentimental to them, pay someone to do it. I did the DIY route first which was terrible and then paid someone. They made it look brand new. Worth every penny.

  21. hot flashes

    Anyone have an OB/GYN they like in Chicagoland for HRT/perimenopause and usual cancer screening guidance?

    Thanks

  22. Anonymous

    Europe travel question –

    Heading to Dublin, London, San Sebastián and Bordeaux next week – would love any specific restaurant, pub or shopping spots you’d highly recommend!

  23. Wednesday Boss

    update: I posted on Wednesday about being really angry at one of my direct reports after I received a final straw complaint regarding inappropriate conversations with a woman that made her very uncomfortable in her workplace. We have fired him and he did not debate it at all, and did not even act surprised. All of his stuff has been handed in and it’s 100% done.

    I just wanted to say thank you all for the comments on Wednesday. It was a really not fun thing that I probably had too many personal emotions (in private) about. My husband was out of town this week so I wasn’t able to really vent it out with him, and so I really needed a venting outlet and I really appreciated being able to anonymously post it here.

      • BeenThatGuy

        Ditto. I’ll toast to you tonight for taking one more Trad out of the workforce, at least temporarily. Who knows, maybe he will learn to respect women going forward. A gal can dream…

    • smurf

      THANK YOU! I’m sure I’m not the only one here who has been the recipient of inappropriate comments and didn’t bother saying anything because I knew nothing substantial would happen to them. It’s great to know there are people out there taking it seriously & taking action.

    • No Problem

      Kudos. Job well done!

      I’m so curious about the mindset of someone like this in this kind of situation. You said he didn’t debate it or act surprised: was he aware he said something inappropriate? If so, when did he come to that realization (soon after he said it or when you told him you were meeting on Friday to discuss his conversation with X)? Does he feel that the whole thing is Just So Unfair but knows the decision was made and it isn’t worth arguing? Has he been fired before for similar actions? I’m brought back to that recent WSJ article about harassment complaints at the FDIC and how at least one (if not several) of the harassers were interviewed and said that they were treated unfairly. They were just completely delusional about their actions and the impact of their actions.

      • Wednesday Boss

        oh lord, right? the mindset is wild. Especially when he just was like, oh yeah okay. Even to my much older (60 year old) male boss – he didn’t try and reason it away. Just was like, oh yeah that makes sense.

        It has been said by one of the guys here that the ex-employee is “just from a different age” while immediately adding before and after that he can’t work here anymore and it’s unacceptable. At first my hackles raised at that, but then I was like – you know what, yes, perhaps he is from a different age and THANK GOD it’s different now.

        Re his past, Idk this references weren’t bad, but of course, they were all guys.

        Looking forward (not really) to all of the people in the next few weeks (especially at a conference in a couple months where we see customers) who are relieved to see him gone and will now verbalize it. sighhhh

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