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Anonymous
My flight itinerary changed and I’m going to be in Las Vegas alone starting at 7:30a this morning local time. I am staying at the Cosmo but check in time isn’t until 3p. Hoping to stash my luggage there, but open to recommendations for where to eat, what to see, etc. during the day on a very hot day in Vegas! Also I would love to work for a couple hours if there’s a restaurant or coffee shop with an outlet; no idea if it’s rude to ask in that part of the States. Flight out tomorrow so this is really a one day opportunity.
Anon8
I’ve been to vegas in the summer before. If you’re on the strip you’re inside so much it honestly isn’t that bad. Meow Wolf’s Omega Mart is amazing– I’ve recommended it here before but I’ll do it again :). You’ll need to take a cab to get there from the strip and reserve tickets online but it’s so worth it. Picture a fake grocery store with funny novelty products, but when you open the drink cooler you can step inside into another dimension. or go into the “employee area” of the fake store and come out in a magenta cave. It’s SO fun to explore– you can open any door, crawl through any opening, pick up the phone and listen for a surprise, etc.
If you happen to be vegetarian, Tacotarian has incredible burritos. Favorite food I had in vegas, honestly. You’ll need to take a cab from the strip to get there, though.
No Problem
I haven’t stayed in a LV hotel in ages (I stay with family when I visit), but is this something you can ask the concierge when you arrive? Particularly for the place to work for a couple hours? I’m sure they’ll be happy to recommend an on-property establishment that won’t mind you hanging out for a few hours in a corner table. Definitely ask if they can store your luggage and if there’s a possibility of getting into a room early – assuming the hotel isn’t full you should be able to get in to a room by noon.
Anon
Caesar’s has a mall inside and you can spend at least a couple of hours in there, and you can walk to it from the Cosmopolitan. Go shop, eat some lunch (there are a number of restaurants to choose from; Gordon Ramsay’s pub is where I have grabbed lunch in the past and it’s decent), grab a coffee or mimosa (it is Vegas, after all) and people-watch, etc. If you’re more of a foodie, there are “better” restaurants in the CityCenter complex, like Wicked Spoon, Bang Bar by Momofuku, etc. There are also shops in CityCenter but they’re high-end, as I recall. Might be good window shopping though at Prada, Louis Vuitton, etc. You could come back here and tell us about fall trends you see!
Not sure if you were the person posting about the Cosmopolitan spa, but you could do a day pass into that spa and hang out there for awhile, or Caesar’s has a spa that offers a 3-hour day pass for $90. I haven’t been there in a few years, but it was pretty spectacular when I was there. There’s a cold room and the whole interior looks like Roman baths.
Honestly, though, if you have good walking shoes and can handle some level of the heat, you could easily kill most of the day just walking down the Strip, stopping periodically to grab a snack or do some shopping in an air-conditioned space, and then work your way back up to the Cosmopolitan. It’s Vegas; there’s literally always something going on to watch or see or do, 24/7/365.
Anonymous
I once spent a whole day shopping in the malls attached to the big casino hotels. Many of them are connected so you don’t even have to go outside. The Venetian has a fake canal inside, which is fun to see. Many of the salespeople are aggressive, but they will also let you do fun stuff like try on very expensive watches.
Anon
This. The Grand Canal Shops attached to the Venetian are great, as well as the shops at Caesars Place. Great restaurants and shopping, all inside so nice and cool.
Senior Attorney
Also sometimes you can pay for early check in. I’d look into t hat first.
LA Law
You have probably already figured this out, but the concierge can absolutely point you to someplace you can work for a few hours. Vegas gets a lot of conference/convention business and it is not at all rude. Just be careful about the WiFi because Vegas also gets a lot of scammers.
Personally, I would go to Caesar’s Forum (inside) and have a long lunch at Trevi. The food is not amazing but it is decent, the drinks are yummy, and the people watching is absolutely stellar. You could also check out something that if off the beaten path (e.g. the Mob Museum which is a great way to spend a few hours.)
Rosacea
I posted a few weeks ago about terrible rosacea and a dismissive dermatologist. I just wanted to say thank you – so many of you were incredible helpful. I saw a new derm, I did a round of doxycycline and signed up for curology and it’s much much improved. Just wanted to follow up with my thanks – it meant a lot to me and helped me navigate it!
Anne-on
That’s wonderful! I’m still annoyed it took me until my late 30’s to realize the red bumps that would pop up after red wine/stress were rosacea and not adult acne (and tbh I realized it thanks to skincare bloggers not my doctor!).
Anon
I’m so glad. The curology basically cured me!
Anonymous
Yay! That’s great, so glad we could help!
Antibiotics/no-dairy girl here. :)
anon
Hi, looking for new youtube exercise videos. I only like the ones when the presenter is talking in real time (I don’t like the ones when you’re watching someone with an unconnected disembodied voice or where there’s just background music).
I’m a big fan of yoga with Adrien and Mad Fit and Pilates with Nicole. Specifically looking for free weight routines. Thanks all!
anon
Maybe Fit Nutritionist!
Anonymous
Sydney Cummings is the best!! And her videos are free weight videos
Carrots
EmkFit has a few free weight videos, though the majority of her videos are HITT style or body weight
anon
Fitness Blender
Anon
Nourish Move Love is great
New Here
BodyFit by Amy!
LHR
London or frequent flyer ladies – recommendation for best oneworld lounge at LHR? Emerald status, but flying economy, so I think we don’t get the Concorde lounge. Reviews online all seem kind of biased or sponsored so looking for anecdata. Goals – nice light brunch and Champagne since this is a milestone anniversary trip :) Connecting flight is BA but not sure yet whether it will depart from 3 or 5.
Anon
I prefer the BA lounge, but the Qantas and Cathay Pacific lounge are nicer and quieter. As emerald you have access the F section of all of these. Admirals Club is a distant 4th (you can get into the flagship langue but it’s not that much better than the regular AC).
Anon
But it may have changed since covid but if you are flying in for the US it will be terminal 3 and most BA EU flights are terminal 5. So ignore what I wrote above, BA is you only option in terminal 5.
LHR
Thanks! How bad is it to get from 3 to 5? Or can you only use the lounge in your departure terminal? We have about a 3 hour layover so wouldn’t mind allocating the right amount of time to get to our gate after eating and relaxing if it meant a nicer experience.
Anon
There is a bus to go between terminals. You will go through security again after you get off the bus. Transit time varies. I usually took flight that arrived really early with shorter lines. If everything is timed perfect best case is about 30 min from deplaning to lounge in 5. I’ve had it take almost 2 hours at longest. How it is set up you don’t/can’t enter the main part of your arrival terminal. Since you arriving internationally you either go through immigration (and you are not airside after you do that) or are in transit. You have to reclear security and that happens in the departing terminal.
LHR
Thanks for the intel – that makes total sense.
Anonie
Just an FYI: flew to Heathrow from the US this summer and was in Terminal 5.
Anon
I used to be so on the ball when my kids were young (b/c in day care, every day is the same; not so with teen kids). Now, every day of every week seems to be different and I swear I’d have no time and maybe only slightly less clutter in my house (my most hated chore is managing the stuff and paperwork — the world is lucky that forms get filled out at all, much less organized and purged when no longer needed) if I resigned my job. Just me? Or is this how it is until they are fully adulting (to me: off my payroll entirely and with a job that supports them)?
Anon
I’m fully adulting and have never had kids. I still have plenty of clutter and very little time. Dealing with clutter is just not a priority most of the time.
Anon
Amen – one day I will just light a match (on the fire pit, after sorting out the donates and the do-not-burn items).
Cat
they are teens! they are old enough to help you and the house stay organized.
Anon
OP on this: yes. They don’t do taxes (yet!) or deal with small business records or the board I’m on (passion project; who needs a clean or tidy house if you’re not trying to sell it?!). They can feed themselves, but I cannot way for the day they become competent and confident drivers (just beginning drivers’ ed) in our city of increasingly aggressive drivers who are busy multitasking behind the wheel. Also: they have skills, but they are still needy in other ways (teens, hormones, big problems are truly big problems and they may feel like there are no small problems left), not the last of which is that only one parent (guess who) is able to help with math problems (thankful that it is summer and I have a 12-week break). But at least they can make sandwiches or spaghetti and help shop. Next summer we may work in jobs and driving, so those are two things that will be hard before they are easy.
Anonymous
This is pretty much my life. My husband keeps saying “let me take some of this off your plate,” but all he can take on is the easy errands, not the complicated stuff like taxes or calculus help. Because guess which one of us has taken those courses and which one has not.
Anon
I give the H categories: dog to vet, dog treat inventory, noon dog walks, your laundry, make the bed, all electronics, some orthodontist visits, violin kid to lessons.
anon
Stop helping them with math. They are old enough to figure out math concepts on their own via the internet; either that, or you need to start making plans to move into their college dorm in the next 2-3 years because guess what? They’ll still have math in college.
Anonymous
For a lot of very smart kids, sophomore or junior year calculus is the first time they’ve had to put in any effort to understand or remember the material and they don’t yet have any concept of how to figure things out or locate resources. The calculus help I gave my kid was mostly getting her to stop panicking (OMG I must be stupid because I don’t instantly understand this without listening to the lecture!), diagnose exactly what she was having trouble with, and then find a video or book that explained it or make an appointment to meet with the teacher during office hours. You have to scaffold these skills in high school, and then in college they should be able to handle it on their own.
Anon
Oh, no. Sadly. In my city, they routinely start even AP classes without a dedicated teacher and expect the students to learn via Khan Academy or extensive tutoring (finally found competent Mathnasium people, but you have to drive there, so one step forward, one step back). And schools aren’t candid with parents — you only realize slowly that maybe a teacher has left and not been backfilled or one teacher is literally going back and forth between two classes in some futile attempt to teach both.
I don’t expect nonsense like this in college, but in our large county school system, it is a problem that has gotten even worse since COVID (and it’s always in advance math classes or APs like stats or science).
Anon
Disagree on math in college. Most kids are able to avoid with AP credits or not being a STEM major or taking something really easy (math for poets).
Anne-on
I got SO much more support and help for math in college than I did in my large, public, severely underfunded high school. In college there were TAs, free tutors, and office hours. The only way I passed the AP Calc exam in high school was by virtue of intensive, weekly tutoring sessions with a retired professor who also (very kindly!) formed a weekly study group of all of the kids he was tutoring in my school. Our AP class of 40 got stuck with the 2 years away from retirement and didn’t give a fig teacher. It was SUPER common in my school for the honors/AP classes to be 35-50 kids because they figured the ‘good’ kids wouldn’t be disruptive but it also meant you were almost entirely on your own if you got lost on the concepts.
Anon
+1
I was homeschooled and surpassed my parents in math by my freshman year in high school, so had to teach myself once I got beyond basic algebra. I now have a STEM degree and work in a math-heavy industry.
If the kids are struggling with remedial math it makes sense that parents need to help them, but I also believe that high school kids taking serious math classes benefit if it means they have to discover how to learn without having concepts spoon-fed to them. Particularly true if they are going into STEM, this is a vital skill (far more important than math skills themselves).
Anon
My son and I could make a serious mess together. Neither one of us is old enough.
Anon
I did my own medical insurance claims starting in second grade. Teens can definitely handle forms. If something is missed, it’s on them.
anon
I hear you on every day of the week being different. It’s much harder to stay on a schedule when kids get older! But, the good news is that they can be more helpful.
Anon
OP here: one thing I have done over the past 4 years is refuse to fill out most basic forms. Kids have to fill out the forms and I will sign, but I will not do more than sign.
[OTOH, school sports stuff was on some weird app that was ostensibly for the kid but really required a parent b/c they wanted mortgage statements and a whole lot of records to make sure you weren’t cheating by not living in the district or hiding a concussion, so that required 2 different installations and somehow I can’t add another kid but I think that the first kid is street legal now. There were at least 15 different forms. It is insane.]
Anon
What in the hell!? I would not be giving a mortgage statement to a school. That’s absurd.
Anon
No — it is a thing. If you rent, you need to show your lease and if you own, you need to show the deed or mortgage statement so they know you really get to use those schools and have a kid play sports there. Sports cheating and cheating to get into a better school is apparently so common that now we’re all subject to very strict rules.
Anon
This is wild!
Anon
In my city, it started with people pretending to live in District A, a strong football high school area, who were zoned elsewhere. So now we all suffer. It’s on Dragonfly, which is a big platform for managing forms and data. I had to do this to register my kids for school (that and a power bill) also. And for a driver’s license.
Anne-on
When my mom was still working as an admin in education she and the other administrators would make ‘house calls’ to homes where they suspected the parents were lying about living. It was super common for people to use grandmas/an aunts home to get their kids into the ‘better’ school district. This is a big problem in decently large ‘burbs/cities where 5 blocks can make a HUGE difference in the quality of your public school.
Anon
How awful that anyone would actually police this.
Seventh Sister
My kids’ school required that info for enrollment. To be frank, I don’t think they do any sort of follow up or checking in the intervening 13 years. This lack of enforcement is presented as “helping the less fortunate” by our oh-so-progressive school board, but most of the kids I know who live outside the district are fairly well-off and their parents bought bigger/nicer houses outside of the district.
Anon
OTOH, districts really seem to be stuck. Overcrowding is awful. They can’t staff for the kids they have, and then 25% more show up. Everyone goes under the magnifying glass so you can’t claim only the X kids get looked at.
Anon
One district in our area got caught with some non-zoned kids on their winning sportsball team and I think there were some severe penalties for all kids on the team that affected even the kids who were zoned for that school. IDK if there was some wilful blindness among parents or boosters, but a few families were “sharing” a rental that no one seemed to actually live at or even had utilities connected.
Anon
I didn’t have to show mortgage statement but I had to show bank statement + two utilities! Crazy. But we live between two less desirable school districts, so cheating is rampant.
Anon
Semi-feral 90’s kid here… My mom was shocked at how many forms she had to sign for my younger sister that she never had to for me. I was a pro at her handwriting…
Anon
Off-topic, but: this is an issue that I don’t think gets enough attention – so much of the world is now on an app. Because apps are easy! Apps are the best! Apps are rainbows and unicorns! And there are not usually alternatives provided.
Well, guess what: some people do not have or cannot have or cannot use smartphones. Think: elderly, disabled, some religions, young kids. In the past week, I have had two friends tell me that apps prevented someone from doing something. One was the gate parent at a water polo game and a pair of grandparents who wanted to buy tickets to come watch their kid play could not figure out the app to do so. The other was at a local repertory, and the tickets needed to be purchased and shown at the door on an app.
I also do not know what will happen when it becomes too overwhelming as I age to check in for medical appoints on the “easy app” or pay medical bills on the “simple app (which, btw, does not actually show you a bill/date of service/CPT code/ability to match amount due to your insurance EOB).” Who will help us then if that is the world our generation has created?
Anon
Some of us just don’t want to carry our phone around all the time.
Anonymous
Oh yeah, the app used here to get into sporting events is awful, and it doesn’t help that a lot of the venues don’t have decent internet connection since you’re in a field in the middle of nowhere. I’m very grateful to the teachers who are willing to accept cash and then go in and do one big purchase at the end of the night. And if they pocket that cash instead, hey, they’re underpaid.
Go for it
Assign tasks, including food planning and preparation ~ it’s part of being in a family.
The tasks do not have to be perfectly done, just done.
PS if you have been doing everything expect pushback as teens can be inherently self absorbed, which does not give them a guest pass to doing minimal contributions to the running of the house. Think of it as a gift to their future partners, adulting is a practice.
As to the paperwork, for me it was/is 1x a week at a set time unless super urgent. That alone made a world of difference. Oh~ when it was forms the kids needed, they had to complete them & I would review and sign.
And chocolate for you:)
Anon
I think that a big part (in our house) is that the kids are useful, but they do not drive. So any activity requires a driver, who is an adult with a job. During COVID, NBD, there was nothing to go to except hiking (like our city chained up tennis courts and basketball courts). Now: swim team, meeting friends (who never live in the ‘hood), clubs, practice, various interest camps so they are not on their phone at home 24/7. They can take the pandemic puppy out, which is helpful, and be left alone for hours or even whole days here and there (like if I go to work but they are at home with no plans), but the driving piece is the hill I would love to not die on (especially in my job, where availability expectations often stretches to 7). I don’t like taking calls if I’m driving or not in the car alone (so can take a call in my car while kids are at the pool, but not if kids are with me in the car). Spouse has more days off than me (that are not on-call like mine are), but is in-person, so a lot of kid stuff falls to me. In South Dakota, you can drive at 14 — maybe we should move there???
Cat
This was more common when I was in Biglaw but when carpooling didn’t work or was too complicated, people literally hire drivers for teens for this reason. Or order them Lyfts or Ubers.
Anon
Ha! We had a teacher we paid just to drive (b/c she only needed PT hours and was safe and had a pretty predictable schedule for availability) but lost her recently and have been unable to backfill for anyone willing to work on the books. And now there are orthodontist visits, and I always go to anything medical, but IDK how things will be once school restarts.
Re Uber / Lyft, a neighbor’s daughter had a bad experience with them, and that kid is 18 and heading to college (somehow is not a driver, perhaps a casualty of COVID backlogs), so had personally discounted it for us. But this really works? Not sure I can pursuade my people now that they have heard stories from a kid not that much older.
anon
I cannot imagine ordering a Lyft or Uber to get a kid to activities. Hire a driver, maybe. But send them off with some rando every time something comes up? No way in hell, not even for a teen.
Anonymous
Yeah, I have had a lot of scary experiences in Uber and Lyft and avoid them as much as possible even though I am a grown woman with self-defense training and street smarts. No way would I put a teen in one alone, if it were even allowed.
Cat
ok if you don’t want to order a “rando” — college students are popular with my circle since late afternoon and early evening is schedule-friendly for them. They get paid to shuttle kids around and can do their homework while waiting around for the activity to finish.
Anne-on
100%, we are so SO lucky to have an amazing ‘driving nanny’ who does pick ups/drop offs, drives to practices and also takes care of a ton of our errands and pet needs. She is a gem and I almost feel bad talking about it at work because finding someone able to do this reliably and that you trust is very much like finding a needle in a haystack!
Seventh Sister
I know there are lots of horror stories about rideshares, but I’ve taken then for years and never had a problem or a weird driver (which I can’t say about taxi drivers in my city). My eldest could pass for 18+, and I’ve definitely considered allowing her to take a rideshare even if it’s against the rules. It hasn’t happened yet but it’s very common in my city.
Anon
Growing up my dad sat in our den and paid bills / did life admin for an hour every Saturday morning. Having that dedicated time and place to get it done, and not in the evening when you’re exhausted, helps a lot.
But also if your kids are teens, see what you can shift to them. If paperwork doesn’t get filled out because they forget it, and they can’t go on a field trip or something, that’s life and sometimes you learn the hard way.
Anon
My kid is elementary age but I do this on Saturday mornings with my coffee while kid watches TV or plays. I go through physical mail, email, and whatever I wrote down during the week that needs doing. During the pandemic I would do this on a weekday after school drop off, but now that I’m in the office full time, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t usually end up taking more than 20 minutes, but I’m not on a board, and the only complicated forms we have are for camp, which is once a year.
anon
I do this on Sunday mornings after church. Update the calendar, do some life admin, often with a cup of coffee. It is not unpleasant.
Anonymous
I batch this stuff but it’s like 1/2 hour a day, not 20 minutes a week.
Anon
This is me and I will find any number of other tasks so that the paperwork tasks never get done. I hate it but I also hate the clutter.
Anon
My BigLaw firm has affinity groups for new moms (but only attorney moms, not staff moms) returning to work without a baby. But nothing for moms of older kids. I know one BigLaw attorney grandmother and she is my superhero.
Anne-on
My Big Finance firm has working parents webinars monthly and by far and away the most attended one was about parents with school age kids. It was/is vanishingly rare for women to work full time while raising kids without taking more than maternity leave. I had zero female mentors that did so when I started 20+ years ago and I’m only now meeting women who have teenagers who have worked the whole way through. The universal answer to ‘how?!?!’ seems to boil down to money (lots of paid help), local family, or spouse with lower pressue job.
Anom
My kids are only 8 and 11, but I’m with you. It’s not just about shifting tasks to the offspring (or spouse), you still are responsible for allocating that task and then making sure it gets done. My DH does things, but he’s still waiting for me to ask and then deciding when to do it or whether he’s too busy. My 8 year old notices and prefers when mom is responsible bc it actually gets done (bc if it’s not vital or important to me, I’m not going to spend my time reminding DH to get the d**n thing done.)
anon4
In this vein, DH and I have a standing 15-min session every Sunday after the kids go to bed, before we watch any of our shows, where we review the upcoming two weeks (we do this weekly so each week gets reviewed twice and this lets us have advance planning for things like booking sitters). It’s not so much about the doing, but the allocation and ensuring we both have visibility.
Around the same time we started this, DH started making lists – it seems so simple and is something I’ve done all my life but somehow he hadn’t adopted, and surprise, he wasn’t great at following through with the things on his plate, so they stayed on my plate in that I had to follow up and make sure they were getting done. I had a breakdown once and reminded him how often he has to follow up with me to make sure my sh!t gets done (never) and he was pretty humbled. After a few months, he’s got a good system down and if something goes on his list, I feel comfortable taking it off my mental plate, which was a big step.
I do like the above suggestion about setting aside time each week for the doing of the tasks though too.
Anon
DH sounds like he needs a kick in the ass. That is a jerk move to wait for you to tell him what to do when he is a grown adult. Does he wait around at work for a list of things to do or does he know what needs to be done because he pays attention, recognizes the importance of the work continuing, and does what he is expected to do. This is the default for so many and it is mind boggling how useless these men are when it comes to taking responsibility for planning.
What a Shame
“do the thing” today is telling my husband, who I know has been lying/cheating for a hot minute, that will be divorcing. My thoughts are written, my heart is there, I just *cannot* make myself say the words. Wish I could just email it.
I feel pathetic & I needed to say it into the internet void somewhere.
Vicky Austin
Oh, I’m sorry – and I totally relate to that impulse to just email it. I wish you all the strength and composure to get you through, and the comfort of a friend, some wine and ice cream, or whatever at the end of it. Keep us posted.
Anokha
Sending internet hugs
ArenKay
You are NOT pathetic. This is hard. You will feel relief and clarity after you do it. Good luck. You deserve better from life.
Anonymous
I think you are brave and strong, not pathetic. Good luck,
Go for it
It is hard!
Be brief , be calm, be gone. Have a set time to get out of wherever you have the conversation, perhaps meet a friend after, or a bookend call.
Big hugs.
Sunshine
I’m so sorry you have to do this, but sending so much love and support for you actually doing this. You know your worth and you’re showing respect to yourself. Way to love yourself today.
I agree with “be brief, be calm (if possible), be gone.” He is in the wrong here. You don’t owe him apologies or explanations. Don’t let him throw this back on you (“I’m only cheating because YOU did….”). Deliver the information and leave the room or place where the conversation is occurring.
What a Shame
I like the mantra – thank all of you for the boost :)
Anon
You are not pathetic – you are brave. I hope you’ll check back later today or tomorrow, we are rooting for you.
Anonymous
+1 to this, and to what Sunshine said. Thinking of you today.
Chl
Good luck! Thinking of you!
Anon
You aren’t pathetic! He’s hurt you incredibly badly. If you need to, call up a friend and rehearse. (Heavens, I’m a total stranger and would absolutely let you practice via Zoom.)
Anon
Big hugs. I’ve been there, down to the wishing I could send an email. Honestly, what finally got me to say the words was a glass of wine and not having to look him in the eye (aka we were having a fire in the backyard, so I could look at the fire instead of looking at him. Yes, this made me feel pathetic also. Driving or another non-eye-contact scenario would have done it for me too).
Mrs. Jones
that’s not pathetic! Good luck!!
Anon
I’m so sorry your have to go through this! I’ve never been married so I can’t speak from personal experience but I think letting a close friend know of your plan and making arrangements to see her quickly after, like a mini therapy session. I think it would be helpful to know there is someone who can pick up the pieces for you after you bite the bullet.
Anon
You can do it! I remember that day in my life very well. I was SO sure of my decision but it was still terrifying. It’s over 5 years later and I’m incredibly happy (and happily remarried). Good luck!
NYNY
You are being so strong and brave right now, not even a little bit pathetic. You don’t have to do it perfectly, you just have to say it. We are all here to support you, and I hope you have someone to support you in person, too. <3
Anon
You are so strong. I’m proud of you.
You can do it.
Anonymous
Honey if he is lying/cheating you owe him nothing. Write the email, read it out to him, hit send and DTMF.
Anon
Ya know, I am one of the biggest proponents of ending relationships with kindness (absent abuse – safety trumps feelings). But yeah, I don’t see why not email here.
Anon
I agree that if he is cheating on you, he no longer deserves your consideration. I would probably just send him an email and consider it done.
(I guess maybe if we had kids, I would tell him in person because I would still have to interact with him. But I don’t, and would have no qualms about telling my husband I was filing for divorce by email if he was having an affair)
Anon
We’re all rooting for you here!
Peaches
Hang in there – we’re pulling for you.
Daffodil
I remember this day like it was yesterday, even though it’s been a few years now. I understand how incredibly hard this is – but you can do it! Your life will be so much better without him, and this is the first step in achieving that. Good luck!
Explorette
You got this! Your future self will be so glad your current self got you out of this relationship.
Hypatia
When I have to do hard emotionally things I imagine my Nana standing with me. Maybe there is someone in your life, dead or alive, who can be your support.
Anony
Hugs.
Anon
I did it! On April 1, 1996. First thing in the morning. And then spent the rest of the day sad with friends, several months doing the admin stuff and now super happy life. You will feel much better when it is over.
Senior Attorney
You are the opposite of pathetic. It’s been 10 1/2 years for me and I still remember it like it was yesterday. Hilariously, after I told him I had rented an apartment and would be moving out, he looked at me and quite seriously said, “I think you’re making the biggest mistake of your life.” Which turned out to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of the truth — it was the BEST decision I ever made.
BIG HUGS, OP. Come back for some more hugs when the deed is done.
Senior Attorney
Longer comment in mod but I’m rooting for you, too!
Anon
Hugs to you. I was there in 2016, and it sucks. There’s no way around it. But divorcing him was the best thing I ever did, and I actually remarried this year. You will get through this. It gets better!
Note, be really cautious if he tries convincing you to do couples therapy. When I confronted my ex husband, he first lied about the cheating. Then he suggested therapy, which was a total disaster. We went to 4 or 5 sessions, where he spent the entire time blaming me. Everything was my fault, which forced him to cheat. The therapist did a really poor job of controlling the situation, and it just felt like a pile on. At the last session, I refused to attend anymore, which he framed as me again being the bad guy. I went and filed for divorce a few days later and wished I hadn’t spent time on the therapy nonsense as he ultimatel didn’t want to accept any responsibility for his actions.
Anon
You’re not pathetic! Longer comment in mod. But hugs to you. You’re strong and brave!
anon
You’re brave and courageous to know what’s right for you and act on it. You can totally do this and I am thinking of you!
Nesprin
So email it, turn off your phone then ask a friend to take you out to dinner.
Do what you have to to make it through a rough terrible day.
AIMS
Favorite white paint for a not too bright, north facing living room? Current paint is linen white by BM (I think) and it looks very dingy. Would like something that looks fresh, bright, airy and creamy, if that makes sense. I know we have a lot of paint enthusiasts here so thought I’d ask.
anon
Honestly, with a north-facing room, it can be really hard to get the bright and airy look. Sometimes white paint can almost make it look worse, or dingy, as you’ve found out. Are you open to colors other than white?
Anon
I like BM Chalk White. It’s a very clean look without being too bright. But it’s a slightly cool white and seems like you might be looking for a warm white?
Go for it
BM atrium white. You’ll appreciate white with high light refraction quality.
Anon
That’s my favorite white, too.
Cat
Behr Ultra Pure White is what Mackenzie Horan used throughout her house to brighten it up and it went a little TOO far IMHO, so it might be perfect for a dark room?
ALT
The fact that every room (more or less) and all of the trim in her house is painted the same stark BRIGHT white drives me insane. A less harsh white would have looked so much better. Sometimes her taste is just…not great.
Shelle
I had to go check out the results. I cackled when I saw she even painted the mudroom in ultra pure white. Photo of children’s rain boots sitting on an ultra pure white shelf. I wish her all the luck in the world with that!
Anon
I have BM Chantilly Lace all over my apartment and it looks great, in both the brighter and the darker rooms.
Anon
Second BM Chantilly Lace. I also live in a north-facing apartment. It is the PERFECT white. Not blue, not yellow, slightly creamy, looks good at any time of the day. I highly highly recommend.
Formerly Lilly
After I got nearly every white paint chip from the PPG paint store and rejected them all, the clerk suggested that maybe I would like just the white base, with no tint added. I’m not sure but what she was snarking, but guess what my condo is painted?! The base is a true white, bright and clear even in cloudy light conditions. For reference, condo is north facing with large, traditional windows (not a wall of glass). Walls are a satin finish and trim is glossy.
Anonymous
I did a whole house in ceiling white and loved it. Calming and easy!
Anon
I deeply, deeply love our SW greek villa.
Hypatia
Greek Villa by Sherwin Williams
Mrs. Jones
+1 Greek Villa
greek villa
we just painted our north-facing living room greek villa. adding more overhead lighting (LED cans) also made an enormous difference.
An.On.
We have Sherwin Williams white flour at our house and no complaints! Includes both our dim living room and bright southern facing offices.
AIMS
Thanks all! We actually have Chantilly Lace on some trim so I should check out how that looks. Will look at the other suggestions too (Atrium White seems promising!).
Not attached to white, per se, but not sure another neutral would be appealing (i.e., gray or beige) and don’t want to go for a whole big color thing.
Anonymous
Sherwin Williams Simply White, or BM Chantilly Lace
anomanomanom
wondering if anyone has any phrasing to share for helping an employee navigate work norms that are more casual than what they came from? Think using the raise hand feature in video conferencing software, responding to all emails with full sentence specific thank you, so nothing bad, just comes off as odd in our more casual environment. We are mostly a remote team, so this is the majority of how we communicate and have now had multiple people raise it to me as oddly formal. I was giving it a little bit to allow them to get a read on it themselves, but feel like now I maybe need to bring this up. As a its not wrong its just not fitting in with the rest of the team? I have dealt with this before, and the give them 3 months to see and adjust worked, but this time it seems its not.
Anon
Can you bring it up as an “Oh, by the way, we’re casual here – you can relax!” the next time you talk on the phone to employee?
anon
I would be wondering what the heck that means.
Anon
No one in the history of the Earth has ever relaxed when someone has said, hey relax!! Please do not do this
anon
No, that’s completely uninterpretable especially for someone who apparently struggles to read social norms.
Anonymous
Just floating not doing this? Can’t you tell your team “people have different styles there is nothing wrong with writing in full sentences”. The raise hand feature is great to help people who aren’t comfortable just barging into a discussion.
Anon
I was just thinking my work is relatively casual and I can’t imagine not using the raise hand feature. I thought this was going to go the other way – new to the workplace employee didn’t get office formality – and I don’t think you have a problem here. Formality is harder to teach and he will probably relax in time.
Anon
Laughing b/c the raise hand feature only ever crops up in my workplace when intended as snark.
Vicky Austin
+100 as someone who is both somehow too formal and not formal enough for the office I work in (I blame at least part of this on cultural issues like being in the south as a northern Yankee hick, but still).
Anon
Seriously.
ArenKay
Does this level of fitting in actually matter? I’d be inclined not to raise it with the formal employee, and just tell other complaining employees “this is their manner, they’re your colleague.” There’s no harm here, so it feels weird to surveillance such small behaviors.
anon
Yeah – this is kind of where I’m landing, too. Unless there are specific issues – say, they use the “raise hand” in a meeting, no one sees, and crucial info gets missed – I’d chalk this up to “it takes all kinds.”
Anon
+1.
IrishMidori
I’m guessing it comes off as pompous, or it wouldn’t have been raised. If it’s creating a perception issue that’s going to get in the way of his effectiveness, it’s fair to bring it up to him. If it’s just weird is all, then, no, let him be that way.
Anon
Thanks for the opportunity to respond. I agree. Let people be individuals.
Sincerely,
Anon
Anon
I agree.
anon
Doesn’t sound like a problem that needs fixing.
Anon
+1 this is your new employees style. Does it prevent them from doing their job?
anon
If my boss told me, “Oh, you don’t need to use complete sentences in your emails,” I would be so weirded out. And that’s something I don’t think I’d actually WANT to change!
Anon
+2
Maybe this is the way their prior workplace was, and maybe it was so toxic it is burned into their soul. So it may loosen with time.
Maybe this person has good interpersonal skills and is reminding us how nice it is to be able to get a chance to speak / get people’s attention in a non-intrusive way. And it’s sometimes nice to get an email reply that confirms someone is actually reading/acting in response to an email.
Their way isn’t wrong, is it? Does it actually make people uncomfortable?
It is hard to be the new person sometimes, and it seems like this person is really trying to show they are a team player and trying to participate.
Vicky Austin
Well said – I agree. Assume good intentions, as Senior Attorney would remind us!
IrishMidori
I’m actually having the reverse problem — new-to-the-workforce, fresh out of college employee using a lot of slang and calling everyone “dearest” and “boo.” I need to figure out how / work up the moxy to tell her that’s not going to do her favors in our professional environment. It feels like after 3 months it gets awkward to say “this has been really annoying me the whole time but I never said anything.” Better 3 months than wait to the end of the year review, though, right?
Anon
Oh my goodness, tell them today. This would drive me crazy. So unprofessional.
anon
That, to me, is a much bigger problem!
Vicky Austin
“Dearest”?? “Boo”?????
I’d frame it as though you’re a concerned big sister – “you might not realize it, but these kinds of pet names are not appropriate for addressing other adults in a professional setting. You risk making yourself hard to take seriously, especially by senior men.” Or something like that. I know I had zero idea what kind of sexist workplace dynamics I could set myself up to be snared by until I was actually in the workplace.
Anon
I disagree with the ‘concerned big sister’. You are not a friend or relative, you are her boss. Be the boss and not something else. You can still be kind, compassionate, and professional..
anon
This is too many words for what can be a quick, direct correction. I find phrasing like this to be far too infantilizing and it would make me feel awful because it’s just so clearly phrased to try to avoid making something that’s already not a big thing, not a big thing. And playing it like a concerned big sister gives the new employee too much freedom to ignore what is a needed correction. A larger conversation can happen if necessary after the correction is given.
anon
“We don’t use nicknames or terms of affection in this office.” Keep it simple and don’t start trying to rationalize the rule.
Anon
This seems a bit OTT and risks being misinterpreted. Is Beth only allowed to go by Bethany? And if Alex is truly just Alex, does there need to be documentation to confirm it is not Alexandria?
Kate
those are preferred names, not nicknames.
Anonymous
Honestly this is disgraceful as a supervisor you haven’t done this. “Kaitlyn, terms of endearment like dearest and boo aren’t appropriate in the office please don’t use them thanks.”
Anecdata
Definitely better to bring it up now than end of year!
A couple options to get over the hump of “how do I start the conversation”
— schedule an overall 90 day check in
— “It occurred to me I never went over our office norms; sorry for the delay, let’s schedule a time to do that now”
— Super casual : “btw, don’t call people dearie at work” – if it’s just one sentence, I think it needs less acknowledgement on the timing than if it’s a whole conversation”
Anon
In all seriousness, why is this a thing you need to work up moxie to do? Do you supervise this person? That’s part of the job.
IrishMidori
I’m one of the two attorneys this person works the most for. We do have an office manager, but if I want anything done HR or management-wise, I have learned I have to do it myself. And really, I’m a big girl. I should be able to have these conversations. Just not really one of the parts of being a lawyer that I anticipated or love the most, yk.
Anonymous
I think the problem is with your employees who are complaining, not with the new employee who is being polite.
Anonymous
I guess I have a different take; if it’s interfering with their work or ability to contribute then definitely talk to them. The raise hand thing strikes me as something worth talking about: if no one uses that function, including the meeting organizer, then he’s going to get left behind in the conversation. I had this issue in a call recently. Everyone was chiming in except for one person, and it’s hard as the organizer to cut off the flow of conversation to see what the hand raise person has to say. I can understand as the new person not wanting to interrupt others, so it would be helpful to be explicitly given the green light to interrupt as needed.
The overly formal email thing I would leave alone, based on my experience. I’ve talked to associates about this in the past and it results in way too informal emails instead. Err on the side of formality.
NYCer
+1. I think it is fine to let the new employee know that your team doesn’t regularly use the raise hand feature, but I would let the formal emails go.
AIMS
+1. This is also easy to address in the meeting. “Bob, I see your hand is raised. You can actually just go ahead and chime in going forward, we don’t usually use the hand raise feature and it’s just easier to speak when you need to. Please go ahead.. ”
I would not bother with the other things. A very senior person I work with likes to use shorthand like “Gr8” or “Thx!” and I prefer to spell out my words. I have learned over time to be more casual but I would hate to be told that I need to spell “see you soon” as “C U soon” at work just to fit in.
bird in flight
+1 exactly this.
Anon
Why are multiple people bringing up an issue if it is merely odd? Is your team this uncomfortable with other kinds of difference in the workplace?
Not everyone code switches easily, and it’s usually advised to default to more formal habits than to let them slide since it can be a lot harder to switch back from casual to formal. If an employee doesn’t easily read the room in general, they may also fall back on formality because it’s harder to accidentally offend someone when being actively polite than it is when being very casual or relaxed!
AIMS
My guess is that by being formal, it highlights the fact that they are informal, which in turn feels like a judgment to the people complaining or maybe activates that part of our social behavior that makes us want to mirror speech/communication. I agree its a them issue, not a new coworker issue. I had an intern this summer that communicated very formally and at first I felt like maybe I should do the same with her but then I realized that she was an intern and just trying to make the best impression (which is correct) and I was senior to her and could just write back, “great, thank you” and not feel bad about it.
anomanomanomOP
This is all very helpful feedback, thank you.
I will probably raise the raising your hand thing, only because it is so outside the norm in our meetings that it means they either gets missed, or it ends up feeling like a formal call on someone in class call out.
The email thing, I may push back on after reading everyone’s feedback. I think within my team we just get so much email that having to weed through an extra 20 thank you for the additional info on project x emails is tedious to some when in general the rest of the team follows a no news is good news rule to limit extra email.
anon
Okay – the email thank-you thing is a little different than what you described in your original post (at least to me). The issue isn’t the complete sentences, it’s emailing in the first place. I’ve worked in places where a “thank you” email serves to close the loop, which might be the case for your coworker. You can just tell them what you wrote here.
Anonymous
Yeah I agree, I think you can couch it as, we try to limit reply all emails here, so if it’s just a thank you then feel free to respond to the sender not the whole team. I do think it’s a good habit to thank the person who sent you the email/acknowledge receipt, and I wouldn’t coach someone to break that habit.
anoanomanomOP
and maybe that’s the clarification. If I get an email that just says thanks I just see that, delete and move on. If you send me 3 sentences that distills to thanks, I need to read that three sentences to make sure you aren’t asking a question or giving me more detail. It’s not a big difference but it is when you are trying to mow through 100 emails received.
Anonymous
The additional detail on this makes me change my mind and think this is feedback you can give. It’s not the formality of the email, but the fact of the email at all. I think you can fairly say “our team tries to limit email by doing X, and would appreciate you not sending no content emails (e.g., an email simply saying thanks)”
Vicky Austin
Agree. This is just a stylistic difference, but it’s one that’s making your other employees’ lives more difficult, so it does need to be addressed in that context.
Anon
Is using complete sentences really considered formal in business now? It seems pretty standard and way to ensure you are communicating complete thoughts.
Anonymous
Not the OP but I was imagining something like:
Thank you, Bob, for your detailed written summary of our meeting at 3 pm today regarding teapot manufacturing.
Rather than:
Thanks! or Thanks, Bob! or even Thanks, Bob, very helpful!
Yes it comes off as odd especially when it’s done all the time.
Anon
and? So what. Bob understands the meaning of all of those messages.
Anonymous
But the whole team doesn’t need to receive a multi line email like that in response to every message. It’s way too much e-mail traffic.
Anon
you’re being ridiculous. An email is an email. more words in one email does not result in more emails.
anonymous
When do you know it’s time to leave your firm? I am a new-ish partner in a small firm. I have a lot of loyalty to both the firm name and the people–I’ve worked my way up here and received mentorship I treasure. We’ve been through a lot of quick transition together, and there has been a lot of “let’s just get through this and then it will get better.” Maybe I’m just in a dark spot, but I’m starting to lose faith that it’s going to get better. Lawyers keep leaving, we keep fighting over pay, we can’t hire anyone good to replace who has left, and overhead pressures stay the same. I want to deepen my practice specialty, but we have no associates left, so I’m stuck doing associate-level work, leaving me no time to take on more interesting, complex, and high-paying work. How do I know whether I need to suck it up and work harder, vs. quit trying to force the fit?
Anonymous
It was time 6 months ago
Anon
Go right now. This won’t get better. Cut your losses.
Anon
What the others have said. Leave!
Anonymous
Are you me? I’m having the same issues with the lack of associates and lack of support. It makes my own practice more difficult, but it’s the expectation to do other partners’ work that gets me. My office imports a lot of work from other offices. It’s a lot of things that don’t necessarily require a lot of billable hours but are hugely disruptive to my day because it’s an emergency, or requires a lot of annoying follow up, etc. To make matters worse, the head of our group in my office knows this is an issue but refuses to pitch in because his “rate is too high and it doesn’t make sense for me to do it.” We’re getting crushed, if you want our office to accept the work and you’re not going to find an associate then you have to help. I’ve stopped accepting work from others unless they can assign an associate from their own office for their matter and the associate will actually do the work.
A partner from another firm in town reached out to me because he’s trying to off-ramp to retirement and has no one at my level to take over. They have associates. It’s really tempting to explore this opportunity further. But I’d be sad to leave a firm I otherwise like.
So Anon
Do you work for my firm (where my last day is tomorrow)?
If so, the problem is that the equity partners are making $$$$$ and do not care a whit about your professional development, the firm’s reputation, or the quality of the work. They will fight to the death over minuscule percentages of origination credit but do not care that their associate salaries are below market, which makes it impossible to keep people. And they probably gave you the partner title because it is harder for someone with that title to leave.
It is not going to get better. Many of the individuals who work there are amazing and trying hard to provide good work and support their co-workers, but the overall structure is toxic. Start looking now. That does not mean you have to leave but it will at least give you an idea of what else is out there and once you know that you can make a decision.
anonymous OP
I don’t! But it sounds almost like I could. We don’t have a equity/non equity partner split, so we’re all in the same boat there. But we have a pretty harsh eat what you kill model that makes it hard to resent the feeling that I’m still doing the same work I did as an associate and still making exactly the same pay. Your advice about looking around first and then deciding what to do with the information sounds very wise to me. Thank you — that’s really helpful.
If you don’t mind sharing, where are you going after this? Another firm? Hanging a shingle? In house? Out of law altogther?
So Anon
I am going in-house. I started my career at a law firm, went in-house, got laid off, went back to a law firm (because hello kids and mortgage) and am not going back in-house, which is a much better fit for me.
Best of luck whatever you decide!
So Anon
Now going back in house.
Sorry – fat fingers and my phone are not a good match!
anonymous OP
OP here: Anyone done this (jump ship) and mind sharing the personal experience? It’s scary — I’ve worked here most of my professional life. I have options, but not a lot in my small town to do similar work. I’d either have to go to our only peer/competitor firm (which is probably frying pan to fire in terms of firm politics, and hey, at least the office bs here is MY bs), or reinvent myself and have a whole “what do I want to be when I grow up now” sabbatical. I just turned 40. I live in a rural area, so the whole universe of careers is not open to me (and have a family/spouse with roots I’m not in a position to pull up). Any words of wisdom from someone who recognizes this path?
If it helps: I love litigation, so in-house appeals for the stability, but not for anything else. The work sounds boring. I can afford to quit my job for a time. Spouse makes enough, and as long as I had a plan, would support whatever I need to do to find the right fit.
So Anon
So I responded above but to answer your question, unfortunately I do not think you have much of a path in your current field unless you can find something remote. I completely understand the reasons you stay, but it does limit your options.
In your place, I would at least talk to competitor firm and see what they would offer you. Law firm politics are law firm politics, but they are not all equally dysfunctional. If they make you an offer that is better than what you have now, both in terms of money and support, my suggestion would be to take it but take it knowing it might not last and start (1) saving your money and (2) exploring other career paths. If you are lucky, the other firm will be substantively better. If it is not then you will at least have bought some time to consider your next steps.
I love being in-house but it is not for everyone. I do not find it boring at all, but my experience has all been with companies small enough that we cannot hire subject matter experts so I am constantly learning and working with different business partners. That said, it does require learning to be comfortable with flying by the seat of your pants and tolerating a level of risk that I have noticed a lot of litigation attorneys (particularly on the defense side) have a really had time with that.
anon
Wondering if you also work at my firm! Appreciate the responses reinforcing my gut sense that it’s time to leave. (I am looking.) It’s so disheartening because I used to believe in this firm and my future here. Some things changed, but some problems were always there and show no signs of improving.
Senior Attorney
If you’re asking this question, it’s time to go. When I went, I went into government and it was the best decision I ever made.
Signed, 57 days to retiring with that sweet, sweet government pension
Anonymous
On the lack of associates thing, I would caution that may not be better at other firms. Every lawyer I know, myself included, is griping about that right now. I think we’re really feeling the post-recession dip of people who *didn’t* go to law school in the mid-senior associate level right now.
Anonymous
(Unless you mean you literally have *no* associates as opposed to just not enough. If that’s the case, then yea, somewhere else will be better)
anonymous OP
We have none. Zero. We have one starting in the fall, hopefully will pass the bar exam. Until then, I’m in small claims court in five counties 1-3 times/week covering flat fee cases because I have no one else to send, and, like another poster complained, the senior partners’ time is too valuable to be troubled with them.
But I think you’re right. Everyone is hurting for new talent right now. The bar passage rate has also dropped. The last 4 people we interviewed failed the bar at least once. Used to be north of 80% pass rate in my state. The last July bar was 62% pass rate, and the last February one had a 36% pass rate. (Now if you care, you can find out what state I’m in.)
Anon
Have you considered a municipal government job? The legal department of a suburb/small city? Or what about becoming a magistrate (depending on the litigation you do).
Anon
Home purchase and finance question. DH and I decided we want to get out of our rental and buy a small house. We immediately found one we like in our price range, and we plan to make an offer. We have not yet lined up financing. However, we could pay cash for the house and close immediately – a benefit in our still-hot housing market – but we would need to then get a loan to replenish our depleated cash reserves. The loan would be for about 1/3 of the purchase price. If we were to get a mortgage before closing, I wouldn’t have any concern about qualifiying for the amount of the loan we want to get.
Will banks make loans on houses already paid for? Can I basically get a mortgage 2 weeks after I buy a house for cash? Thanks for the help.
Anon
Isn’t this essentially a HELOC?
Anon
If you need that cash, why not just put down a large downpayment and get a normal mortgage? AKA Why pay for it in cash and then mortgage it? It seems like an unnecessary step…
Anon
I thought that sellers prefer all cash offers which could give her a leg up on other buyers.
Anon
This really depends on market. In most places, no one makes all cash offers. I was recently selling a house of a deceased older relative in a HCOL city. The house was no longer in good shape, and all the offers were from house flippers. Not a single one was all cash.
anon
They do. Especially today where lending parameters are tightening up and you you’re not already prequalified. If you can do an all-cash offer, do it.
anon
adding to say, we presented all cash/showed proof of funds but still closed with a loan. the difference is closing was not contingent on the financing being closed.
Anne-on
You’d essentially be taking out a HELOC, not a mortgage, which means the rates will be higher than a mortgage. I don’t know your market so if an all cash offer is truly what it takes to get you to closing in a hot market I can see the value but personally I’d feel more comfortable with a traditional 30 year mortgage. You can put down a large deposit but it would also give you more cash on hand for the inevitable ‘hot water heater breaks/fridge dies/roof leaks’ two weeks after closing.
Anon
+1. Someone here said, years ago, “your kids can’t eat paid-off loans” and I always think about that when I think about, do we pay cash for this car/$30k home renovation, or do we finance at least some of it so we don’t deplete our cash reserves.” Cash is king. And a HELOC is going to be more expensive than a mortgage. I would go with the mortgage and keep some cash intact, especially because (and this happened to us) new houses usually mean some kind of large expense for an upgrade or repair very soon after move-in.
anon
This is not true. You can mortgage your home if you own it all cash.
OP, walk in to a bank – any bank – and ask the question for peace of mind, but I assure you you can get a traditional mortgage even if you close all cash.
Senior Attorney
+1 this is a no-brainer
anon a mouse
Talk to your agent, but is the benefit of a cash purchase (in the offer) that you can close immediately, that you don’t have a financing contingency, or both? I’ve seen plenty of people write an offer without a financing contingency which means that you are committing to pay cash if you can’t get a loan, but you could still get a loan as long as you hit your closing date.
You have a few options here – one is to try to get a short-close loan for 1/3 of the purchase price. That’s the easiest, and if you find a local lender they should be able to close it in 2-3 weeks (a benefit of the slow market and lower volume). Another is to pay cash and then after the closing, apply for either a HELoan (to give you the cash immediately) or a HELOC (revolving that you can tap as you need) or a cash-out refinance.
The third option would be to just aggressively save up your cash reserves again, as you won’t have a house payment. You could open 0% promo credit cards to fund any large purchases in the coming year (read the fine print so you don’t end up owing back interest). You could temporarily decrease or stop your retirement savings just until you hit a level you are comfortable with. Weigh these options against the fees you’ll pay on a loan – you’ll pay thousands in closing costs not to mention the interest rate.
Anon
Thank you for this response. It’s very very helpful.
We are not in a HCOL area, but we are in a hotter market and think a cash offer with the ability to close immediately will help us compared to other buyers, especially because the owner is moving to another state and has a child who will need to start school in about 5 weeks. Getting this house sold quickly would benefit the owner and closing quickly will make our offer more attractive (we hope)
anon a mouse
Oh, and congratulations on finding a house! One other thing – close immediately doesn’t mean “close in a day or two.” It will still take time (maybe a week minimum) for a title company to run a title search and prepare documents for the closing. Your agent should be able to advise you on how quickly that could happen in your area.
anonshmanon
This – some pieces still take a while (title, shopping around for home insurance, inspections if you don’t waive them). A lot of the mortgage paperwork can happen in parallel to the other stuff, if you are on the ball.
If you can put down a bigger down payment of 20-30%, any bank will happily give you a preapproval (this shouldn’t take longer than a day or so), and it’s clear to the buyer that you are basically guaranteed to get the mortgage. It also means that appraising doesn’t really impact the outcome. That makes your offer pretty much on par with an all-cash offer.
anon
I’ve heard of this being a thing in my market among very well off buyers. If I were trying to do this, I’d call around to banks that specialize in high net worth clients.
anon
yes
Anonymous
We purchased ap house for cash and thought about doing less and you will need a period of “seasoning”, as I believe what the lenders call it – she won’t be able to pull money out right away. You may have to wait 6 to 12 months to do it.
Anon
I don’t think you can immediately get a HELOC because you won’t have equity in the house when you first buy it.
Anon
If she buys the house in cash and owns it outright, she has equity in it, I assure you.
anon
There is some mind-blowingly bad advice/commentary on this thread. OP, call a bank. Please. Pretend you might borrow from them and just pepper them with q’s. As I stated above somewhere, you absolutely can mortgage your home if you close all cash.
Also, anon at 1:06, equity = cash. If you own it all cash, you own it with 100% equity. IF you buy it with an 80% mortgage, you have 20% equity in your home. 20% may or may not be enough to get a HELOC, but you absolutely have equity in your home.
Anon
There is mind-blowingly bad financial advice/commentary on this place all the time. I encourage EVERYONE to consult with professionals in relevant fields when making any financial decision at all.
anon
Doubt anyone is still reading, but I feel compelled to edit my answer. Equity is not equal to cash. That was a careless statement from me. Equity is the amount you expect to be returned to YOU (not the lender) if you sell something at any particular moment in time.
So, if you buy your house all cash and then sell it the next day, you effectively have 100% equity because a) it’s all cash and there’s no lender to repay and b) you can assume the value is the same as the day before, so you can reasonably expect to get the full purchase price back.
If you buy it all cash and sell it two years later, you may have more equity than the original cash amount you contributed because value went up, so you’d expect to get MORE back. Or, if value goes down, your equity is less than the cash you put in to the home at the time of purchase because you’re selling it for less than you bought it for.
If you have a loan on the property (the mortgage), you’d expect to receive the home sale value less the repayment of the mortgage, aka the equity.
Vicky Austin
Can we have a book recs thread?
Recently read and really liked:
Apples Never Fall by Liane Moriarty (I love a complex sibling character study and this one had that plus thriller-y twists – loved it)
Vacationland by Meg Mitchell Moore (beautiful depiction of the Maine vacation home life I’m always dreaming of when it’s 105* in Texas, with a side of more family drama)
Barbara Isn’t Dying Yet by Alina Bronsky (translated from the German, I thought this was going to be a cathartic read of everything a man learned his wife had been doing to keep the household a happy place, but it actually was a sobering tale of old age with echoes of A Man Called Ove)
Ambition and Desire by Kate Williams (wonderful biography of Josephine Bonaparte)
In the Shadow of the Empress by Nancy Goldstone (another great biography of Maria Theresa of Austria and three of her daughters, including Marie Antoinette – I actually found myself looking forward to night feeds with baby while I was reading this so I could get back to what was happening in Naples at the end of the book!)
What are you all reading?
Anon
I had to laugh at your description of Vacationland. I’m in Arkansas where it’s almost as hot, and I needed something to at least dream about being cold! So I’m currently reading “The Snow Child” by Eowyn Ivey and loving it! It’s just what I needed.
I’m also listening to the audiobook of “A Perfect Storm,” which is very good.
If anyone hasn’t read it, my favorite recent read was “Demon Copperhead”! It’s also a great audiobook!
Vicky Austin
Oh I loved the Snow Child! Another good Alaska book is The Great Alone by Kristin Hannah if you haven’t read that.
I bought a Barbara Kingsolver recently but it almost immediately got packed away for moving and now I don’t remember which one it was!
Explorette
Those were both two really good books! I just finished Demon Copperhead by Kingsolver and it was really good. If you haven’t read it, that’s a great place to start.
Anon
I just finished reading Lady Tan’s circle of women. Recommend.
An.On.
I’m trying to get to Demon Copperhead, but my holds keep coming due first!
I enjoyed Romantic Comedy a lot more than I expected. I didn’t like Nora Goes Off Script at all (similar “normal” woman falls in with male celebrity), but this one was really fun.
For Your Own Good is bonkers in the best way, completely over the top but it moves along so quickly you don’t care.
Nylongirl
Hi! I just started Pineapple Street. My favorite book this year is The Gilded Years which is historical fiction about the first black woman to attend Vassar. Her daughter was the second black woman to attend Vassar. And it turns out that my very good friend is the great great granddaughter. Excellent book. Perfect blend of entertainment & history (though we have not gone far enough in equality).
Vicky Austin
The Gilded Years sounds absolutely fascinating, thanks for that rec!
Senior Attorney
I’m in a junky reading phase and enjoying it quite a bit. Somehow I stumbled across the “Yestertime” series of three time-travel books by Andrew Cunningham and enjoyed them a lot even though the writing is, shall we say, not exactly inspired. Just finished the first volume of the Silo series by Hugh Howy after seeing the show on Hulu (or wherever) and liked it a lot, too.
LOVED The Queen’s Thief series, which was recommended by somebody here
Very much enjoyed Yellowface by R.F. Kuang.
I think I’ve recommended this before, but How Lucky by Will Leitch was very unusual and I loved it.
Slogging through Pete and Alice in Maine by Caitlin Shetterly right now. It’s a pandemic/bad marriage novel and I’m not super loving it but YMMV.
Sunflower
+1 on slogging through Pete and Alice in Maine. I gave up and didn’t finish it.
Brainiac
Just finished Translation Space by Ann Leckie. If you like intelligent Science Fiction this is a treat. But perhaps better if you read the Ancillary trilogy first.
Anonymous
I really liked Carrie Soto is back. Got me in the mood for Wimbledon!
Anonymous
for fun: Vera Wong’s unsolicited advice for murderers;Romantic Comedy; Pineapple Street; Ink Blood Sister Scribe. All of them were terrific!
Cb
I love my husband to death but he drives me nuts when we are travelling together. It was just my five year old and me on the way here and it was so much easier. He didn’t like the look of the beach, etc, is an awkward eater. Today, He’s obsessively checked the app for delays even though Ryanair never announces them until the plane is due to leave, nearly forgot his random extra bag in my dad’s car, and is in the checkin queue asking me questions, the answer to which I’ve told him at least 3x.
I’m sure I’ve got lots of annoying habits but after this trip, I may leave him at home.
Anonymous
My husband is also a terrible traveler. He is incredibly nervous but has zero common sense or problem-solving ability. He is forever asking me ridiculous questions to which he could find the answers simply by looking around him. My teen is a much more capable solo traveler than he is, and a much better travel companion.
NaoNao
Wow, I see we married the same man!! Gets very anxious and nervy, and is shy/introverted/socially anxious. He hovers around asking questions that seem designed to get under my skin and wants me to be tour-guide cheerful and calm when I’m stressed myself!
He’s a wonderful person and my rock in life but just becomes a total liability on travel.
anon
Sounds like he doesn’t like/want to travel and is passive-aggressively trying to make you as miserable as he is. Leave him at home next time.
Anonymous
I think her husband has autism so he may not be doing it on purpose. But still annoying as anything.
Anon
I feel this so hard. I think my husband just processes his thoughts aloud, but it comes across as asking a million questions that I very obviously do not know the answer to. Like the AirBNB host suggested a restaurant, we agree to go there, he then turns to me and goes: what do they have there? is it far? what time do they close? And I’m just like…. this may come as a shock to you but since I’ve never even been to this entire country and I just heard about this restaurant, I literally have no idea? Why don’t you use that g o o g l e machine that is literally in your hand? It’s become a running joke between us at this point, because the alternative is to just be annoyed!
Vicky Austin
In my family, when we do these silly wondering-aloud things to each other, we say, gently and with a laugh, “If only there were a device that could tell you these things!”
Anonymous
I say this to my husband all the time!
Anonymous
Ooo I do this to my husband about TV shows and movies. He’s like, I’ve been watching this exactly as long as you have, I’m not sure why you think I have more information than you? I know it’s an annoying habit. I’m sad to admit it, but my mom does this to me. I feel like I’m in one of those insurance commercials about becoming your parents.
Anon
Sounds like he is an anxious guy. Or is this only when he travels?
If it’s only with travel, does he help plan the trip? Sometimes having a little more involvement in the planning stages, like checking out restaurants/beaches ahead of time can help him work out his anxiety. And maybe a xanax on the day of travel (!).
Can you start involving him in a new hobby/something that can help his anxiety, if he doesn’t have good coping mechanisms? I’m getting everyone into yoga these days! Many men love it. Maybe he joins a biking club or some sort of new regular, cardio exercise routine. Could an after dinner walk routine for the two of you be a good thing? Does he need to learn how to breathe/mindfulness when he gets anxious. Even teach him the cyclical sigh…. takes 1 minute!!
If this is not only around travel….. Does he need to finally see a counselor, or is this how you/he want to live for the rest of your lives? Because this does not mellow with age… oh no…. it only gets worse. And it affects your child too.
Anon
Or maybe every day you travel, he should first thing in the morning go out for a run or go to the gym or take a walk to help him reset that he’s in vacation mode!
Anon
What?? This is OTT. I think Cb travels every week for work and I’d guess her H does not. I’d say just be patient, I’m a much more frequent traveler than my spouse and there is something to be said for knowing the ropes.
Anonymous
Xanax is crazy, but any adult person should be able to handle travel even if they are not a frequent traveler. You just have to pay attention and go with the flow.
Anon
Tons of adult people struggle with paying attention and with going with the flow outside of their usual comfort zones though.
Anon
Really? I’d re-read her post. Look at the words she uses… awkward, obsessive, complainer, asks same question 3 times…. He sounds like his 5 year old. Not an adult man.
OP has to clarify if this is his baseline, which just amps up with travel. Sounds like he is like this every time they travel.
I have folks like this in my family. And it totally correlates with generalized anxiety. And it sounds like the OP is getting stressed out by it. I would never want to travel with a person like this either.
They’ve been together at least 6 years I assume ….. how long should she wait for him to get the hang of it?
Cb
Yeah, he’s the primary parent and perfectly competent at home, I think he’s just an anxious traveller, I’m laissez faire and we are rubbing each other the wrong way. His whole family is this way, I once had to take myself away during an extended convo about the merits of various parking options.
Our flight is delayed and we had a chat while our kid listened to his audiobook and all is ok – I’m not convinced southern europe in the summer is actually his jam – he’s a delicate English rose so the heat is hard, doesn’t like crowds, etc. so we might just let him chill at home next year while we eat our weight in fish and stay in the sea til we are prunes. He can come for Christmas.
My 5 year old takes after me thankfully – packs light, gets the hang of things quickly, eats everything. He managed to navigate the metro after 3 days of summer camp commutes.
anon
DH is also an anxious traveler. Routine that works for us – airport lounge + jack & coke. I also make sure to put everything that is in my head in a shared google doc so he knows what activities we are doing each day.
Anonymous
I’ve caught myself doing this to my husband and I’m not sure why. I’m arguably the more seasoned traveler and I’m better at navigating airports yet I catch myself deferring to him and asking him questions. Maybe some kind of internalized misogyny on my part? Or maybe I’m used to following his lead in other more common contexts, like sportsball events and concerts? I have zero sense of direction and I get overwhelmed in crowds so I just sort of follow along through stadiums. But for some reason airports are my jam and he gets completely lost in them.
Anon
misogyny? are you serious….
Anon
I just turn into a Field Marshal whenever my family is traveling. I’m the United 1K and frequent business traveler. The rest are vacation travelers only. I am more flexible and patient at home, but travel is inconvenient enough without people whining or second-guessing every minute decision. I’m in charge, we ARE doing this, and the rest of you just need to go with the flow.
Anonymous
I love this. This is what I do if I’m responsible for fellow travellers. My way no complaints or you’re on your own.
Anon
Hard same. I love my husband but really dislike traveling with him! My 5 year old is an easier and more fun travel companion and has been since the age of about 3.5.
anonshmanon
Favorite ways to use goat cheese? I impulsively bought a big tub with no plan!
Anon
This quiche is amazing https://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/spinach-and-goat-cheese-quiche
Anonymous
Spread it on TJ’s fig and olive crisps. Crumble over pasta with roasted red pepper sauce. Make a pizza with olive oil and garlic, fresh mozzarella, goat cheese, fresh figs or dollops of fig jam, and prosciutto; after baking top with fresh basil and/or arugula.
JHC
Baked goat cheese and marinara with some crusty bread! https://www.thewickednoodle.com/baked-goat-cheese-recipe/
Anony
I love to use goat cheese instead of ricotta in this recipe: https://smittenkitchen.com/2017/01/crusty-baked-cauliflower-and-farro/
I also make frittatas with potato/sweet potato/squash, shallots, spinach, and goat cheese once or twice a month.
Anon
I love tangy goat cheese.
One of my favorite meals as a single person is simple…
A beautiful piece of bread, toasted. Or even a boring piece of bread toasted is great!
Drizzle good olive oil
Layer of lots of goat cheese
Layer of freshly cut tomatoes
Salt and pepper
The balance is just so nice. And it’s so quick.
And I keep all of these things at hand at all times. Good bread is always in my freezer. Ripe tomatoes/cherry tomatoes are always on my counter.
Another simple favorite is simply scrambling some eggs, and folding in crumbled goat cheese at the very end. Again, I often eat quickly with freshly cut diced tomatoes – the acid enhances everything so well.
I love food, but just don’t have time to cook. So I keep a list of delicious, fast things to eat that include a protein and some healthy vegetable. Then I add 1 or 2 extra vegetables or fruit on the side and I’m done. Steamed or raw. Skim milk to drink. You get used to routine. It is plenty of protein/nutrients and healthy.
anon
Mmm, this sounds delish!
Shelle
With honey and hot pepper jelly on crackers!
Formerly Lilly
Mixed with a little honey and herbes de Provence for a morning toast spread.
Little blobs mixed into scrambled eggs just as they finish cooking.
Vicky Austin
This salad right now!
https://www.cookingclassy.com/peach-salad-with-grilled-basil-chicken-and-white-balsamic-honey-vinaigrette/
Sunflower
This creamy goat cheese dip is so light and delicious. And the leftovers are great on a sandwich. https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2022/06/28/goat-cheese-dip-recipe-no-cook/
Jules
On sourdough toast with cherry preserves.
In tacos with black beans and winter squash
Anon
I just had it for breakfast, spread on toast made from a rustic round loaf from the local boulangerie. Rainier cherries on the side, a cup of lightly sweetened Earl Grey tea – my idea of heaven.
Anonymous
Beetroot and goat’s cheese work perfectly. Add rocket salad and walnuts for a great salad. Sprinkle goat’s cheese on beetroot soup.
Work stress
How do I not take out my work stress on my family and be more present when I’m with them? I have several very stressful work projects coming up over the next few weeks and I’m really having a hard time with this. I used to work in biglaw and was constantly stressed, yelling, etc. I made a lot of changes in my life which gave me a lot more flexibility and I have worked considerably less (around 20-30 hours a week) over the years. I also had therapy and felt like I had made a lot of progress in being more calm, less stressed, and more patient with my kids and spouse. But now that I am working more again I am right back to where I was. I need to get through the next few months and I cannot keep losing it at my family because I’m stressed about work. And is the long term answer for me to just accept that I cannot work more than 30 hours without losing my mind?
Anonymous
What does your therapist say?
Anon
I hear you.
What are your stress release avenues?
Do you have set times you work every day (ex. 8am to 12)? From home or in person? If so, is there some sort of PHYSICAL thing you can do to transition from work to home? Get outside and take a walk and breathe/look at the world or listen to music? Can you add on more help at home (eg. outsourcing) if you think taking something off your plate for a few months?
Can you check in with therapy again.. even just 1 or 2 visits, to help you with a re-set? Even a telehealth visit may be workable. Sounds like you need a better long term plan.
Hang in there. It’s just a few months more…
Moose
When the anxiety/stress hits a point that you can’t function normally and it’s disrupting your life, something has to change. And, as I’m sure you’re aware, this affects both you and your family’s wellbeing – it’s hard being around a reactive spouse/parent/whatever (ask me how I know, ha!). Maybe it’s cutting back work, maybe it’s getting back into therapy seriously and figuring out what next steps are needed. But staying in this place is not a solution.
Myself, for example, recently ad to accept that I needed to find a new job – that my current one was not a healthy place to be, and significantly detrimental to my mental health in a way that wasn’t fixable. Job hunting sucks but I know that I’ll be able to be a better version of myself on the other side.
Anon
If you’re open to it, I had wonderful results with DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy). It helped me identify the emotion I was feeling, examine it to figure out why, and deal with it. We also learned skills for dealing with the emotion in the moment. Taking a break, breathing exercises, using ice on my wrist, etc. I suffer more from anxiety, but there was a woman in my DBT group that had anger issues. You can do it as individual therapy and not in a group, btw. I’ve done both.
In the meantime, can you prepare for the stress since you know it’s coming? I’m not sure what your emotional triggers are, but if it’s making dinner after a long day, order some frozen meals that someone can just put in the oven. If it’s having people come up to you the moment you get home, make advance plans that you’ll get 15 minutes in your bedroom (WITHOUT YOUR PHONE) so you can center yourself before interacting. Maybe have a ritual when you get home, even a small one, like changing clothes and doing a quick breathing exercise to rest your mind to being in that environment.
It is something you desperately need to get a handle on. I grew up in a house where anger was the predominant emotion, and it was not good.
Anonymous
Maybe I’m projecting and excusing my own behavior, but it’s not possible to have exactly the same level of engagement and patience with your family when you’re working more on more high pressure things. It is reasonable and appropriate to ask your family to accommodate you (assuming the kids are older than 3)— but you will need to take the lead in asking for what you want (at an age appropriate level). I’m not condoning yelling— just saying that it’s reasonable to expect your kids and spouse to be more thoughtful. For example, you might normally have the bandwidth to deal with a midweek Target run for a red shirt for some kid activity, but now the kid needs to be sure to ask farther in advance or go to the other parent. Personally, I think it’s harder for a kid to deal with unpredictability (will mom blow up at this request?) than less availability/flexibility/etc.
Anonymous
Asking on the main site because I would love if anyone with older children or someone who wants to speak to their own childhood could weigh in: I think we’re done after two kids. They are 2 and 4. I have room in my heart for another, and I know my husband and children do too, but I think my career would suffer from the added sick leave, childcare challenges and lack of attention, and it sounds like when my children are older, they’ll benefit from more individualized attention from both parents. I don’t know many parents of older children and don’t have a lot of experience or understanding of what a family of 4 looks like versus a family of 5. I’m trying to imagine myself 5, 10, 15 years down the road in both scenarios to help me decide. Thanks!
anon
The moms board was all pretty unanimous that 3 kids is just the worst lol. Really loved reading that as a mother to a toddler with twins on the way!
Anon
Many people I know who had a third have privately expressed regret for that decision. They thought going from two to three would be more work and it turned out to be 3X more work. One parent has ended up quitting their job to stay home and the added financial stress of that hasn’t helped. I would stick with two having watched it play out over and over this way.
Anon
In my city, 3 is common, but those moms usually don’t work or have FT help and possibly also local family. I don’t know many moms of 3 who work anything other than very casually (family business, sell real estate as a very established agent who gets listings and has people working under her). IMO it is more of a work hurdle than any other sort or hurdle. If you can let go of work at least until the youngest is in K, are you OK with that? Family budget? Those shouldn’t be the limiting factors, but IMO it is.
NYCer
+1. I think that working FT with 3 kids would be very challenging, though I know it can be done. Anecdotally, all of my friends who have 3 kids either do not work or work part time though. (And full disclosure, I also work part time, even though I do not have 3 kids, so no shade from me! Just the reality of the situation for the people I know.)
Anon
+1. In my social circle, once the third kid comes along, someone stays home or decides to do a very part-time, not-really-income-providing small business so they can say they were still working without having the pressures of a job working for someone else. Even in the same-sex couples we know who have three kids, someone shifts their career so they can be home the majority of the time. Around here, people don’t really make enough money to afford live-in nannies/au pairs or a lot of help so the only way to make it work is for one parent to scale way back. It seems like it’s completely possible to have a dual-career couple and have two kids, but at three kids – something’s gotta give.
Anon
Yeah, anecdotally, my only friend with three has confessed to me she wishes she didn’t have the youngest.
Anon
I have one sibling as do almost all of my close girlfriends. It’s completely fine. Some of my friends have a $hitty sibling, some have a great one, some are close with their parents, some are not. 2 kids is a perfectly fine family! As is any other size a person decides is right for them.
Anon
If you foresee your kids being involved in sports or other activities, stop at 2. Obviously most of our kids don’t grow up to be professional athletes, but I heard an interview with Donna Kelce stating the boys were only able to be so involved in sports because there were only 2 kids and the parents could divide and conquer
Anon
I’m not sure I’d consider having two sons playing professional football to be a positive… that sport is incredibly dangerous.
Anonymous
The moms group discusses this like daily. None of it is wrong! A third kid makes having a real career that much harder. A kid to love is great. Personally I’d enjoy life with two and move on.
Anon
The fact that your career would suffer is the real issue. Here’s the math: compare two incomes paying for two college educations versus one (or 1.5) incomes paying for three college educations. Now consider how that also applies across everything else: a larger vehicle, food, clothing, sports, extracurriculars.
At the very least, table it for now until you feel like you’re not stretched thin with the two you have. There’s no rule that your kids need to be evenly spaced; if you want a third in 2028 (and you aren’t too old), knock yourself out.
Anon
“There’s no rule that your kids need to be evenly spaced; if you want a third in 2028 (and you aren’t too old), knock yourself out.”
This is a good point. The “2 years apart” thing may be typical or common but it’s not a hard-and-fast rule. I have a high school friend who got married after college, had two kids, got divorced at 30, then met a new husband and had two more kids with him at 36 and 38. The older kids actually really love their baby half-siblings and spend a lot of time with them. There are all kinds of families out there, and all kinds of ways to make families work.
Anonymous
I think the “2 years apart” thing comes from highly educated professional women’s tendency to wait until they are older to start having kids. If you don’t start TTC until you are 30-35, you don’t really have the luxury of waiting beyond the safe minimum spacing if you want multiple kids. I had my first at 30 and couldn’t even fathom the thought of dealing with another baby until she was 7 or 8, but by that time I wasn’t comfortable with the genetic risks so we were done.
I see a lot of 3- and 4-kid families where the husband is a doctor or Biglaw lawyer and the wife is either a teacher or quit her job as a lawyer, but only where the older kids are girls and the youngest is a boy, or all the kids are girls. If the first or second kid is a boy I never see more than two kids. It’s really gross.
Anon
Check your judgment. Our first baby was a boy. Getting pregnant, being pregnant, the birth, were all nightmares. My life and my kid’s life was at risk during the delivery, in a very real way. My OB told me after he was born, “I don’t know that I am going to recommend you try to get pregnant again” and so we did not. The choice would have been the same if our son had been a daughter.
Please remind yourself, when you see other people, that what you can see about them is about 2% of their total story. And then ask yourself whether or not you’d want people judging you by your appearance or apparent life choices. Pretty sure the answer to that is “no.”
Anon
Same situation as Anon at 2:27. Pregnancy was so bad that our kid could have been a dragon or a fire truck and I wouldn’t have gotten pregnant again.
NYCer
What? I have two friends that I can think of off hand that had two boys, and then had a third. One had another boy and one had a girl.
Anon
I think people fear judgement – “will everyone think that little Liam was an oops?” Who cares? The things people assume about other people’s reproduction knows no bounds.
Anonymous
I’m 47 and just went to my 25th college reunion. There were several couples at my 20th who were pregnant with their 3rd kid where the 2nd kid was at least 5+. All these families are still two career families (including several doctor/doctor pairs). They love it— and the older kids seem to love it too.
Anon
+1 this is very common in my circles – spacing the first two close and then a much larger gap before #3. Third kid often comes along when the first two are in elementary school, like ages 5 & 7 or even older. There are a couple people on the mom’s board with this situation I think. (And I don’t know people who have kids especially young, so the mom is often 40+ for #3.)
anon
My 2 kids are in mid-elementary and middle school. I can’t imagine how chaotic our lives would be with another one. I see other families with 3 kids, and although sometimes I feel some longing for that bigger family experience, I know myself, and I know how stressed out I would be, as would DH. The parents are undoubtedly more stressed out than we are. And unless you’re fortunate to be decently wealthy, my observation is that kid No. 3 seems to wreak havoc on finances in a way that doesn’t happen as much with 1 or 2. Especially if you’re going to have child care needs for 3 kids.
Will I regret having only 2 kids when they’re both adults and we have smaller holiday gatherings? Maybe. But right now, I’m sure glad that I don’t have more kids than I could realistically handle.
Anon
Fwiw, I have one sister and our holidays are giant. We both married men from big families and had a couple of kids ourselves. There’s more people than we have space for. Our nuclear family of four turned into ~20.
Anon
I can’t speak to this from the parent perspective, but I’m one of three and certainly never felt that I lacked for attention- if anything, I liked that parental attention was more diluted. The last thing most kids these days (at least in the demographic of the posters here) need is to grow up feeling like they’re center of the universe and having more siblings probably did lead to being a bit more independent and responsible (I’m the oldest). You should do what works for you, but don’t worry about there being a lack of individual attention for the kids.
Anonie
Curious, did both your parents work full time?
Cat
Practical points about going from 2 to 3 that I’ve seen cause some chaos – a third means you go to zone defense – at some point 3 kids will need to be in 3 different places and that’s one more place than parents who can tr-nsport them.
You don’t mention cost so maybe that’s not a concern, but everything from needing a bigger car to traveling being more expensive (maybe now needing 2 rooms) to a 3rd set of tuition costs.
Anon
Sounds to me like you’re done with your two if you have no real burning desire for a third, which is different than “have room for” which sounds more like “if we had an oops baby we’d be fine.” But to answer: We have three teenagers, 15-18, and my experience honestly isn’t likely to be helpful. Some kids need more from parents than others, and there isn’t a way to predict that, so what my family sees as normal parenting for 3 might be way less than what someone else’s child needs who is a singleton, and families of 4-5-6 kids may have one or two who just need more from parents, particularly at different stages of each kid’s life. Our daily conversations with our teens or attempts at such are different depending on the kid: One is very, very independent and lives inside her own head and manages her own life pretty well (school, work, etc), so we only see her when we seek her out. Another is life management independent but comes out of her room every night at about 930 or 10pm to chat with a parent about…everything for about 15-30 minutes. It’s not scheduled, she doesn’t realize she’s doing it, it’s just a habit. The third teen we lure to the main floor with food every night, aka family dinner, and hope to get a readout of his day, but he comes and checks in with us randomly when he feels like it, and he had needed more overwatch on executive functioning skills for his first few years of high school or stuff just wouldn’t get done. The kids now manage their own work schedules, including transportation, fill out their own forms mostly, handle their own schoolwork, etc. other than some nagging from me every now and then. When one had problems with a high school math class, I hired a local student to tutor, both because I can’t remember that math and frankly to preserve my relationship with that kid. Heh. They can plan and cook a meal for the family if we ask them a day or three in advance. (TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO COOK is the best parenting advice I have no matter how many kids you have.) If they are sick, the teens stay home alone (a few check-ins from parents during the day) unless they are really, really, really sick. They pack themselves for trips. Note that we are incredibly lucky because none of my three have major allergies, medical issues, learning differences, etc that have been identified at this stage. Basically, the daily parenting workload is more talking and less doing, cause they fix themselves breakfast and lunch, get themselves to friends’ houses or activities usually, handle their clothes, etc. Obvs DH and I still make their medical appointments and get them there, keep track of academics, coach on getting themselves organized for college applications, etc.
TLDR: the time and logistics we spend on parenting now has shifted to dramatically less than the super-busy years of late-elementary and middle school, when each kid had an activity or sport or two and we were frazzled juggling transportation and scheduling and cooking and laundry and….DOING things for them and taking them places as well as the emotional stuff. Toughest years for daily grind were infant-4, then again from about 8-12/13. We DO less for them now and are spending 90% of our parenting time on the emotional support/coaching. I’m not behind the wheel or in front of a household appliance for parenting these days, I’m on the couch listening with my phone off.
Anan
I love everything written here and the idea of the long game of parenting.
I have not found that three kids have hurt my career. It’s a combination of working at a job where work life balance is respected and also me learning how to focus and do “good enough” very very well. Also I’m happy to manage my department of six, and I have no desire for any more responsibility or higher position than I have now. My husband is equally unambitious and does not hesitate to be home with a sick kid or meet the plumber or what not. I’m sure we are a much lower income bracket than many people here, but that’s fine. We manage, without a fancy car or annual international vacations or a full time nanny.
I don’t know if I can really speak to if my kids are getting enough attention. They are 11, 6, and 4. I do my best. My husband does his best. But honestly, there are 24 hours in the day regardless of the number of kids we have. If we had fewer kids, I think we would take more time to ourselves, not spend more time with the kids. The kid math isn’t linear: six hours with kids does not mean two hours with each if you have three, or three hours with each if you have two kids. It is true that as kids start getting older and have their own activities and interest, those logistics do become harder to figure out. We aren’t there yet.. but that does cross my mind from time to time.
It’s such a personal experience and each/kid family combination is different, but I really find a lot of joy in each of my kids and how our family works together.
Vicky Austin
Ha, kid math reminds me of that line from White Christmas: “I want you to get married. I want you to have nine children. And if you only spend five minutes a day with each kid, that’s forty-five minutes and I’d at least have time to go out and get a massage or something!”
Anonymous
Three is more difficult in every way. For travel, a hotel room typically has 2 double beds for 4 people. Most cars fit 4 people. When going out to dinner a table for 4 is easier than a table for 6. and on and on. That being said my biggest regret in life is not having a third. To me more family = more love and fun.
Anon
A friend of mine who was debating about having a third said she’s so lucky to have two happy, healthy children, why press your luck having a third?
Anonymous
This. Your third might turn out to be difficult or have special needs, and suddenly your happy life turns into a nightmarish slog.
Senior Attorney
That’s my thought. Why on earth would you press your luck?
Seventh Sister
If we’d had a third kid, we’d have had to make some significant changes to our house, bought at least one car that could accommodate three car seats and/or three kids in the back, and really looked at the cost of things like sports leagues and dance classes, etc. A lot of things like travel or hotel rooms are just set up for families with two kids.
That said, I know a few people with a big age difference between two and three, and they are very happy families.
FP
This is a dumb reason but honestly it was the one that pushed me to stop at 2. Travel is so, so much easier with just two kids. We just went on a vacation with a friend and her family with three kids, and it was so much more expensive/annoying for them to travel – needed a suite or two rooms; bigger car service, etc etc etc. Two kids wanted to play at the beach while one hated it. Our setup seemed incredibly smooth compared to theirs.
Anon
Ha, travel was a big factor in why we’re done with one! But I’m also a happy only child and most of my friends and family members don’t have great relationships with their siblings so I’ve never seen a sibling as a necessity. But yes I agree the jump from 2 to 3 is probably harder travel-wise than the jump from 0 to 1 or 1 to 2.
Anon
I read something about how 3 brings a radically different level of complexity – not just in family size, but in general, in science, in politics, etc. The ‘three body problem’. I think the article started talking about a multipolar world of US/Russia/China.
Anonymous
I have 3, and love them all dearly. It has an absolutely massive, and under-discussed, impact on the ability of either parent to hold down a job let alone a career. Unless you or your partner want to go very part time or leave the workforce for a while, don’t do it. It’s not about the third kid suffering, it’s about all member of the family being under sustained pressure. (Ignore me if your extended family lives next door and is available for lots of help!)
Anon
Some of these points are good, but some of them are not really such big problems. You can fit 3 carseats in the back of a sedan – it’s not ideal, but it is a thing many people do. You can stay in one hotel room – many have pull out beds or will bring in a cot, or you squeeze together. Many locations have late busses for after school sports. You can still give each child individualized attention, just not all at the same time. If you want the fanciest most optimal time and space for each child, or if you want to work insane hours then maybe stick with 2, but 3 is fine and there are many happy families of three. Mine included. 3 kids is not the worst and I wonder if some of the people saying that have children themselves?
Anonymous
One of my closest friends has a theory on family size.
Small families have one or two kids. There are more resources available for each kid, and decisions are often made to optimize each child’s wellbeing, rather than optimizing family wellbeing as a whole. It means you can offer 1:1 parental time more frequently. It means that college funds are split between fewer kids. It means that you can have kids participate in more activities without infringing on family time/finances. It means you have time to cook separate meals for two picky eaters. And so on and so forth.
Big families have four or more kids. There are fewer resources available by default, and decisions about allocating those resources are typically made to optimize the wellbeing of the entire family. That might mean you pay for state school instead of private college, or each kid gets to pick 1 activity instead of 2 for scheduling purposes, or that if you don’t like the family dinner you get PB&J instead of a separate meal.
Her view is that 3 is the hardest number of kids because most people try to parent them as if they are still a small family, but they actually are a big family. Most families don’t have enough resources (time, money, support, etc.) to parent 3 kids as if they are a small family, but still try to do so, which is very stressful.
Anecdotally I do see this play out among my friends. My friends with 3 kids are happiest when they parent with a “big family” philosophy instead of a “small family” philosophy.
Anon
I love this theory.
Anon
That’s brilliant and insightful.
Vicky Austin
This is fascinating and feels very true to me as the product of a 3-child family!
Anon
This makes a lot of sense to me!
RR
This is brilliant, as a parent of three kids. All the pressure of a parent of 1-2, but the chaos and time drain of a parent of 4+.
Anon
My only child gets PB&J if she won’t eat the family dinner :) But in general I agree with this theory. 3 kid families are big families trying to be small families and it can be really hard.
Fwiw, I know two very successful full-time working moms with spouses who also work who have >2 kids, but they both have 4, not 3. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. They are very much in “big family” mode.
Anon
Also I think with 4 the kids tend to pair up and each have a buddy, versus 3 which can be tougher in terms of kid dynamics with someone always being the odd one out. Not super relevant to the parents’ careers, but does make home life smoother.
Vicky Austin
I’ve mentioned the odd-one-out dynamic being a big factor in my desire to have an even number of kids before.
Anon
I vote 2.
You’re outnumbered at 3 and logistics dramatically change at 3
RR
I have three–twins and then a third. Going to three for me was fairly easy and was a good decision. But, there is something to the individualized attention. And as we are moving into more sufficiency and getting through high school with the older two, we also have one much younger, so much longer until we are empty nesters, done with childcare, etc. And like others have said, it does drastically increase the cost of everything–two hotel rooms, bigger car, you have to wait longer at restaurants for a table of five, etc.
I don’t regret it, and I’ve still been very successful in my career (stayed full time, litigator, equity partner in a big law firm, and my husband has always worked, but was at 70% for a handful of years), but it’s a big transition and greatly lengthens the childcare years of your life.
Anon
Keep in mind that #3 could be twins and then you have 4! This was a factor (albeit a relatively small one) in why we stopped at one, because I knew I could really not handle 3 kids.
Shoe advice
What color and style of shoes would you wear to argue in front of a federal court of appeals, to go with a navy pinstripe skirt suit? I want to feel powerful, but also comfortable. Is this an occasion to go with a traditional pump? I have a few pairs of gray pumps, in suede and faux leather, but am also eyeing some heeled loafers in taupe/caramel. I also like cordovan and burgundy with navy. Ideas and links welcome, hoping to keep any purchase under $200.
Anonymous
This feels weird like that button down shirt man. Obviously any of the shoes you listed are fine.
Anon
I would feel most comfortable in a traditional shoe that is completely under the radar. I don’t think that flat vs heel matters as much as it just being a plain shoe. I’d do black or navy, personally. Gray would be good, too, but I wouldn’t do suede. Though, this is just my preference. You can get away with a little more than I’m as long as you’re formal. It just helps me focus to have literally no questions about whether my outfit is appropriate or distracting.
I argued at the 8th Circuit and wore a navy suit with a cream shell and very plain low heeled black pumps. My opponent wore a dark purple dress with a non-matching blazer and knee-high boots. I lost, so it apparently wasn’t detrimental for her!
Anon
For my color palate, I love gray suede and burgundy suede pumps in this setting. Interesting, beautiful and still very appropriate.
I always wear heels when I want to feel powerful because they give me additional height. Sometimes it even puts me taller than men around me. I love that.
But if you are going to be on your feet a lot, and pumps are challenging… I also have comfortable suede grey and burgundy flats almondy+pointy toe.
Anonymous
Go with a pump, the grey sounds lovely.
Moose
For me, part of feeling my most powerful is being comfortable and in clothes that do not require extra thought/adjustment/anxiety. So, if you have a shoe that you have road-tested that you know will be good, I think that’s a big benefit. Also, I really like the idea of gray with navy!
Anon
Navy plain leather traditional pump. Closed toe. Closed heel. Full court shoe. No designs or anything fancy.
LA Law
This, except that I think black would also be fine with a skirt suit. The plainer and more boring the better. Just be sure you can stand and walk in them without issues.
There is a time and place for gray, eggplant, suede, etc. There is a time and place for dressing to be comfortable. There is a time and place for “interesting”. A federal court of appeal is not one of those places. Because 9 out of 10 judges/justices won’t care and of the ones who would 9 out of 10 wouldn’t let it impact their decision. But you still don’t want to be “the one with the shoes”.
Anonymous
black heels – for men’s clothing black dresses navy up, while brown dresses it down.
Paging DC engagement ring shopper
Sorry, late to the party yesterday. In DC, u want Masica jewelers. Not fancy, but great prices on very good stones that you can have set to your liking there or elsewhere. Honest dealer. Get an idea of your setting style and price/quality set points before you go and they will get you a gorgeous stone. This is close to a “diamond district” store. Source: I’m a satisfied customer with a relative in the gemstone business in another area, she sent me to Masica here in DC.
I also like the idea of a placeholder ring while you get used to what you want. Some pretty settings are surprisingly high off your finger and catch on things!
anon
My work tops are looking tired (or I’m just plain tired of them). Between some body changes and taking on a more senior role, I feel like I need to up my game a bit. I’m looking for solid colors that have details that make them less staid and boring. Has anybody found anything good recently? I like the MML look but I’m never going to spend that kind of money on workwear, so … budget is $100 and under?
Anon
Have you checked Ann Taylor lately? They fell out of favor around here for many years, but I’ve really liked what they’ve had the past year or so.
Anonymous
I like the Antonio Melani silk tops at Dillards.
Anonymous
If you know how MMFL works for you, their resale shop (Second Act) might be a good option. I picked up several items from them when I went up in size and I’m now hooked on resale shopping — the thrill of the hunt while being sustainable!
NYNY
Quince can be hit or miss, but I got the washable stretch silk dolman sleeve blouse in black earlier this summer and want to get another in navy (and would get more if there were more colors beyond ivory, which makes me look like a corpse).
H13
I’ve recently lost some weight that I don’t expect or really even want to maintain. (I’m currently working with my doctor on the cause.)
A lot of my fairly minimal wardrobe is too big right now. Can you help me figure out 5ish things to buy for work to get me through the summer? Tops are mostly ok still but dresses and bottoms look sloppy. I lean classic and simple.
Not looking to invest much but want to feel more pulled together. I work in a pretty casual office–think linen pants and a nice t-shirt or casual-leaning skirts in summer.
anon
I hope things go well with your doc/diagnosis and treatment.
As far as pants, I’ve basically been wearing linen Old Navy pants since May. They wash great and the drawstring is on the inside, so they look a tad more polished. https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=561193002&vid=2#pdp-page-content . You might also like the Playa pants, which are viscose.
These Target pants look nice, but the fabric might be a little too casual: https://www.target.com/p/women-s-high-rise-regular-fit-tapered-ankle-knit-pants-a-new-day/-/A-88188897?preselect=88188740#lnk=sametab
H13
Those both look promising. Thank you!
Anonymous
oh, those old navy ones look great – my kids always accuse me of wearing PJs in public when i wear the wider-legged linen pants.
DeepSouth
Jcrew factory has some good simple pants options — do a pair of white jeans and black or navy slim pants and wear them when you’re peopling.
Add a white button down, a solid black top and a print that you like and call it done.
Anon
I think I need some help being more efficient at work. I’m 100% WFH and entering a difficult transition on my project so I need to improve my focus. I feel like I spend 12 hours doing what I should complete in 10 hours because I get easily distracted and love a little mental break (such as reading comments on this site). I’d like to be more efficient and get my work done in less time so I can actually enjoy my evenings. Any tips? I also live w my bf and he also works from home some days so it’s very easy for us to get distracted.
Anon
Is there an office you can go into? If not, how about the library, a coworking space or a coffee shop? I can only work efficiently in a “work” environment with other people working around me. I cannot be efficient at home.
Anon
My commute to the office would be at least 45 minutes each way. I also have meetings and random quick calls throughout the day and the nature of my work is confidential so coffee shops would be tough during the week. They might be a good option for catching up on solo work during the weekends though!
Anon
Have you considered that 12 hours of focused work/day is just not really desirable? Or possible?
anon
To be honest, expecting yourself to work for 10 hours straight with no or very few breaks might unreasonable. I am also easily distracted, and so I feel your pain, but also remember that you’re human.
Anonymous
Don’t stop having small breaks. Unless you’re in a flow zone, in which you won’t notice time passing, small breaks are part of being productive.
When you stop and switch gears, your subconscious is still working and making connections.
But maybe you’ll feel better if you schedule your breaks? Look into Pomodoro.
Anan
Is anyone here have a really good and efficient method for doing dishes by hand? Our dishwasher is broken and won’t be repaired for a week and I feel like I can’t keep up with the dishes for our family of five. Any hacks or tricks for not taking an hour to wash a sink full of dishes and pots and pans?
Vicky Austin
Paper plates for the week.
Cat
1. Use paper plates
Anon
Either paper plates or your kids get a new chore.
NYNY
When I didn’t have a dishwasher, the plates weren’t terrible to handwash, but silverware was awful. I’d use regular plates but plastic cutlery.
Also, family of five sounds like more than one person who can wash dishes to me. Make a schedule, and for the largest batches of dishes, one person washes and another rinses & dries.
Anonymous
I don’t own a dishwasher on purpose.
The only way to avoid spending an hour on dishes is to either wash them more frequently or have less dishes to wash.
The most efficient way for me is to start with the least dirty and progress to the most dirty. I fill the dish drying rack, then dry that load, then repeat until everything is done.
AnoNL
My parents wash as they go. So instead of putting 2 forks in the dishwasher, they wash them by hand.
After bigger meals, one person washes, one towel-dries them; that cuts the time significantly.
Anon
+1
Paper plates are silly. Washing plates is the easy part.
Wash as you go. Leave things out to dry on dish towels etc. You wash your own dishes for breakfast/lunch. At dinner someone who didn’t cook washes.
Anonymous
While cooking:
Wash as you go. I use a sponge, and keep an absorbent mat (dish towel is fine) to put clean and rinsed stuff on at the counter.
I plug my sink, but do not fill it, I wash knives and utensils under running water (not gushing, just thin stream start and stop), rinse, set on mat as I go. Anything that’s very grubby gets to stay in sink that is gradually filling. Pots can soak if necessary.
For tableware, I start with clean sink. I start with glasses, then cutlery, then plates, then serving items and any remaing pots last, from least to most grubby.
anon
I think I’m going to japan next year with my teen age sons (13 and 16) and parents. My dad is a pretty good sport but physically very slow (walks with a cane) and my mom is in pretty good physical shape but could drive me over a ledge. Any suggestions on how to start planning such a trip? Wondering if we might be better off with a tour of some sort maybe for part of it? I’m a pretty interepid travelor and normally plan itineraries etc on my own but i’ve never been to Asia and my companions are making me take pause. thanks!
Veronica Mars
Are you open to a cruise? I find for those that have mobility challenges, it’s nice for them to have one place for all their things, and activities they can do on the ship if they’re not feeling up to that day’s port outing.
Anon
Does it have to be Japan? Do they have to come?
Anonymous
Why? It sounds miserable.
Senior Attorney
I think a tour is a good idea, or if not I can’t recommend a private guide highly enough. Japan is VERY DIFFERENT from the U.S. (or Europe or Canada or wherever you are likely to be) and a guide is so helpful to smooth the way. I hired one from Tours By Locals but they have gotten pretty expensive and you may well get somebody just as good but cheaper from Viator these days.
That said, Japan is amazing and you will love it. Especially for teen boys — all the anime and tech their little hearts could desire!!
Anonymous
It’s been a very long time since I’ve been, like almost 20 years, but in this situation, yes, I think you might be better off with a tour of some sort. I was visiting a friend and got the impression it would have been much more challenging if I had not been with a Japanese speaker, though we were in/around Kobe mostly, not Tokyo, so ymmv in the more touristy areas. But a tour doesn’t have to mean, like, a large tour bus. You could probably find a small group or even private guide (when I went, friend’s dad hired us a driver for a day in Kyoto and it was great. Again, almost 20 years ago, so no specific suggestions. I also hired private guides when we went to China for really not that much–I also normally plan itineraries on my own and still basically planned the itinerary and told them where we wanted to go)
Anonymous
Oh, I will say my China trip was the one and only time in my life I have used an actual travel agent and they found the guides. This is the kind of situation they are still useful for. You just need to be very specific in what you want.
anon
ORIGINAL POSTER– Thanks for the insight. I didn’t mean to make it sound miserable, i love my kids and my parents and we’re doing it because i don’t know how much longer my parents will be able to do something like this and my kids adore them. It’s just…. a lot of personalities :)
Anon
I lived in Japan about a decade ago. It is not typically an easy country for mobility disabilities. Your dad will have to navigate stairs as not all places have elevators and might have to deal with squat toilets.
Anonymous Grouch
I am going to Japan next month. I’ve not been there before, and am happy to report back after. All my trip research indicates that there will be a LOT of walking. Like, a huge amount. 20K+ steps per day. That said, I suspect your trip could work well if you are strategic and targeted in your itinerary, and focus on a few places. Not zooming around by bullet train and changing hotels every other night. I would do 5 nights in Tokyo, 4 nights in Kyoto and then back to Tokyo to fly home. Keep the planned family activities to one in the morning for everyone with a guide and private transport to minimize the walking and cut down on bickering over “but the shrine’s over there…”. Then your parents can rest in the afternoon at the hotel while you/kids go out for a further adventure via public transport. Return to the hotel and find dinner as a group. If your mom’s energetic but drives you nuts perhaps split the teens up and each of you take one for the afternoon while your dad rests? I think the trick will be to balance the “family togetherness vacation time” aspect, with its limitations, and the “OMG this is my bucket list trip to Japan I need to do everything” aspect. Good luck, and feel free to post a burner email if you want a private update based on what I see on the ground while I’m there.
anon
original poster: you may be anonymous but you are certainly not a grouch :) this is sort of what i’m thinking. have my parents decide what they want to do and figure that out and then my kids and i can go to raccoon cafes and whaever else on our own.
RR
I’m planning a similar trip. Me, husband, two 16 year olds, a 10 year old, and FIL in his 60s. Honestly, we booked a cruise around Japan. There are pros and cons for sure, but when I get to three generations, the pros win for me. I’ll plan a couple days before, and then accommodations and most food are set–I just have to plan what to do at port.
Anon
I think a bus tour would likely be very boring for the teens and you. I’ve done organized bus tours in countries where it’s complicated for Americans to travel alone (Cuba and Iran) and although I loved visiting these countries, I absolutely hated the tour aspect. Japan is actually quite easy to navigate for foreigners. English is spoken widely and locals are kind and helpful to American tourists. It would really drive me crazy to be on a tour in such a place.
If you have to do some kind of tour, I would agree with those saying cruise. There will be a lot of stuff on the ship to entertain the teens and it has the mobility advantages of a tour for the elderly parents. Although unless you want to waste a lot of money, you won’t be eating local food, which kind of stinks.
Anon
The subway stations do NOT have escalators or elevators. I once saw three rail employees hoisting a woman in a wheel chair up about 50 stairs. Be ready to take a taxi everywhere.