Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Richmond Pencil Skirt

235 Comments

1. Can I get some recommendations for Boston? I’m going to be there in a few weeks for a conference, staying near Copley Place. My days will be full but mornings and evenings are free. I’d like to get some good walking in, see a few sites (but not really a museum person), and eat at some fun restaurants (love seafood specifically, but not picky). Also debating going to a baseball game. I’m hoping to just get around by walking or using public transportation. Any recommendations?

   1. From Copley, you’re within walking distance of everything. Walk around the Public Gardens, see the Freedom Trail, Faneuil Hall, peep at Fenway Park (unless you hate baseball it’s kind of neat to see a major league park right in the middle of a city block), etc.

   2. Copley isn’t far from the Esplanade and the walk along the Charles River is pretty nice. For seafood, I always recommend Eastern Standard or Island Creek Oysters, both near Kenmore. If you’re out near Fenway, there is Eventide, which has great hot lobster rolls.

      Have fun!

   3. I’d walk over to the waterfront, see the seals at the Aquarium, and then take the ferry taxi over to Charlestown if the weather is good. Also walk around the North End for pastries, Beacon Hill and Back Bay for architecture, and Harvard Square for the university.

   4. I loved the Freedom Trail when we went to Boston. It allows you to see all the cool historic sights without being museum-like. Highly recommend.

   5. StubHub for Red Sox tickets if they are in town. Copley is close to everything – fancy shopping on Newbury, ‘regular’ shopping in the Copley and Pru malls, occasional farmers’ markets at Copley Square. Trinity Church is a cool Richardsonian Romanesque building, and the public library (the old part) is also neat, both right in Copley. You can take the T everywhere – I’d go to South Station and then walk over to the Seaport bridge and eat at the Barking Crab. Good seafood and great view over the channel. You could also take a duck tour from the Pru and that takes you all around the city, some by water and some by land. Super cheesy but if you lean into the cheese you will have a good time. :) You could also take the red line to Cambridge and go to Harvard Square for good people watching and neat stores – Cardullo’s and Bob Slate are my favorites for British candy/tea and stationery also LA Burdick for chocolate and Alden and Harlow for cool c*tails and dinner.

   6. The pan roasted lobster with bourbon from Summer Shack is just one of the most delicious things I have ever eaten and it is in Back Bay.

   7. Island Creek (Kenmore), Neptune Oyster (North End), Row 34 (Seaport), B&G Oysters (South End) are all good seafood options and doable walks/public transit from the Back Bay. Row 34 is probably the hardest to get to from Copley, depending on your tolerance for distance/T transfers.

      You might consider walking down to the Esplanade from the Back Bay and walking along the Charles River. Nice park, and I think Night Shift Brewery’s outdoor beer garden is open now, called the Owl’s Nest.

   8. I second the Public Garden. First thing on a nice morning is beautiful. In the early evening, perhaps take a ride on the swan boats, which looks cheesy but is very relaxing and peaceful.

      On the far side of Boston Common (very walkable from where you are) is a cool restaurant/bar/cafe I recommend: Exploreteur.

      Walk down Marlborough Street in the Back Bay, which is residential and beautiful.

      Walk down Charles Street in the Beacon Hill neighborhood, which is commercial but charming and has good restaurants. I like Caffe Bella Vita for salad, coffee, and/or gelato. Tatte Bakery for a pastry. Bin 26 Enoteca for a sophisticated dinner. Beacon Hill Bistro for anything in between. Explore some residential side streets too.

      The Boston Public Library, in Copley Square, has some beautiful old-fashioned rooms upstairs, a hidden outdoor inner courtyard, a cute bookish restaurant, and a new modern cafe are with a tv/radio studio. I believe they broadcast live on public radio in the mornings.

      The South End has some great, small restaurants. Ideas include Metropolis Cafe and the Buttery. Walk down Tremont and/or Washington Streets.

      Enjoy!

      1. Will fight you on Tatte, I like Flour better. ;)

         1. +1 to Flour! I have an irrational hatred of Tatte for some reason…

         2. Same.

   9. Lots of good stuff already mentioned. Depending on the kind of scene you like, check out Clink, the bar built in the old jail (now Liberty hotel). Also legal seafoods in the seaport district has a great rooftop bar with pretty harbor views. You could couple that with a trip to the ICA if museums are your thing.

      Island creek oysters…highly recommend the food but with the bias that I grew up with the owners ;). Downside is no ocean view.

      You could walk along the esplanade if the weather is warm enough and you’re free early enough in the evening. Get ice cream or dessert and putter around the north end.

      Get a drink and boat/sea/people watch at Rowe’s wharf.

      I also like strolling through the south end. You could grab a drink or food at somewhere like Beehive (live music) or Toro (tapas).

      Just reading this makes me nostalgic for when I lived in the city. We’ve been in the burbs too long!

   10. Any chance you’ll be there for LSAC? If so, we should grab a drink.

       1. No, I’m going for AHLA. Bummer. Thank you everyone for the great recommendations!

       2. Missing LSAC Annual this year, but hello from another ‘re**e in admissions!

2. So lets hypothetically say I’m extremely out of style. And let’s say I’m going to buy 3 or 4 items to update my wardrobe. What should I get?

   1. Are you looking to update your work look or your weekend look?

   2. New jeans, reasonably stylish daytime shoes, and two cute tops.

      1. Can you give examples of “stylish daytime shoes”? Links would be appreciated. :)

   3. Good question. It depends a lot on your circumstances but a good pair of skinny jeans, maybe a white fabulous top like eyelet or lace. A striped tee perhaps.

      1. And one pair of shoes but it depends on your circumstances. Either some cute flats (pointy toe in my opinion) or heels/wedges. Red would be versatile.

      2. Not the OP, but I’d be interested in recommendations for a specific white fabulous top. I got the linen muscle tank from Everlane, but not sure it’s really going to do it for me.

         1. Zara has a ton of white eyelet tops right now that are really nice if you search “openwork”!

            1. I refuse to shop at Zara because of their long commitment to being antisemitic. (G00gle will fill you in.)

         2. Sezane! I buy all my beautiful white summer tops from there!

   4. 1- Jeans that fit you very well – for me it’s boyfriend jeans
      2- Simple crisp white tee or white shirt or white blouse – you can dress it up or down
      3- A fitted blazer which you can wear with 1 and 2 or as a layering piece for other outfits
      3- Non black shoes

   5. OP here– y’all are saying things like “jeans” and “heels”… I need additional details, as I don’t have the faintest clue what cuts are stylish. Do my jeans need to be light wash with holes in them? Do I need flatforms or are those so two years ago?

      And this can be work or casual. Thanks so much for all the responses so far!

      1. Stylish shmylish. If you like wearing it, you’ll look great and be stylish. Plus, if it’s being sold right now, it’s probably considered “stylish” somehow or other, bc fast fashion. Go forth, find things you like and enjoy!

         1. I agree with this! I think trying to be On Trend is a losing battle, and you’re going to do much better by sorta following your heart/what feels good on you.

      2. Don’t get too hung up on following the latest style.
         I wrote: jeans that fit very well because if you get the latest craze and it is unflattering on you then you just look bad not stylish. Pick what makes you feel like a million buck.
         I am curvy large hips, thick thighs, tiny waist so I wear a high waisted boyfriend jeans in light wash after years of trying to wear black skinny jeans

      3. I’m also surprised you’re getting such non specific advice. Assuming you’re looking for non- work clothes –

         I’d go for very light wash jeans in a fit that looks good on you. If you do brick and mortar shopping, the most current styles will be at the front of the store.

         Dad sneakers – big white athletic sneakers

         Then a couple of tops. If you’re straight sized I would walk into a store that skews young but not necessarily teen and see what they’re showing with jeans. I feel like anything goes right now but I do think the longer, flowy top is dated (and I say this as a wearer if same). I’d be looking for a cropped boxy top in a firmer woven fabric, if that suits your shape.

         1. I’d give a hard no on the dad sneaks. Unless your clothing is very very up-to-date and trendy, it is not going to read as stylish or cool.

            1. She wanted to know what was stylish. Dad sneaks are stylish. I don’t personally wear them but they’re what’s in.

               OP you could also go for some vans-type slip on sneakers. I’d look for ones with a thicker white band at the bottom. They will not be hard to find – it seems like they’re everywhere.

            2. Dad sneaks are trendy, not stylish. There is a difference.

         2. I’ve never seen anyone besides my father where dad sneakers in real life. They look ridiculous on the celebrities.

            There have been several threads on stylish sneakers so I’d search those if you want sneakers.

            1. +1000

               Superga or Veja sneakers are great instead if you like a sneaker look. Sleeker than an athletic shoe, with a more substantial sole than Keds.

      4. Is there a sense of style that appeals to you? To build out a wardrobe, consider get an appointment with a Nordstrom personal shopper. If you just want to pick up a few things quick, I’d focus on a few pieces for summer.
         1) Block heels and mules are in, look for a mid-low block heel sandal and a cool flat sandal.
         Block heel option: https://bit.ly/2M20NSr
         Belle at CapHillStyle posted this cool sandal yesterday that I’ve been thinking about ever since: https://bit.ly/2v4zM5p
         2) A pair of flattering shorts, in a classic color like navy or olive for versatility, and depending on your height, 4-6″ inseam. There should be decent options at Banana, Loft, J.Crew or Ann Taylor.
         3) Quality jeans – try Madewell (I like the 9″ rise) and Good American at Nordstrom. I’m still on team skinny jean because they are the most flattering cut for me, but the door has opened back up to other cuts. Lighter washes are having their moment, but I don’t think you can go wrong with a medium wash. I also like white jeans in the summer. I would avoid culottes of any type, I think they’re in for a bit but will be out of style within a season or two.
         4) Summer tops – I don’t think you need a “cropped” top, but shorter, boxier tops are definitely the trend. Every summer I pick up a few tops from Old Navy because I’m a sweaty person and if they’re ruined by the end of the summer, I’m not going to cry over them. I’ve already gotten a surprising amount of wear already from these two:
         https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=412196002&cid=1036992&pcid=72091
         https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=410266002&cid=1116586&pcid=72091

   6. Leopard Rothy’s; Express fake-leather jacket that you can wear over lots of stuff, including simple t-shirts; one pair of good fitting jeans from a stylish store (if they’re from a stylish store, I just assume they’re on trend); and one Boden jersey dress with short sleeves that I could wear casually or dress up for work. If I didn’t have shoes that matched the jersey dress print (I don’t think they have a lot of solids), I might consider a different pair of Rothy’s (but no black – looking for spice here).

      1. LJ4lyfe

      2. Adding here that I also really, really, really support a striped t-shirt dress from Gap…

   7. How old are you and where do you plan to wear the items?

      1. I’m 35. Out and about– running errands, hanging out with my friends, going out to eat, taking my kid to the playground.

         I work in a stuffy white collar profession, and I’m pretty good with my work wardrobe, which is classic (but I’m still open to some suggestions that would be work appropriate). Then I feel like frump city on the weekends.

         1. I have a pair of white sperry sneakers that I think go with everything, especially since sneakers with skirts/dresses are more trendy this year. They’re comfortable enough to walk around all day, but not as out there as big dad sneakers. I’d agree with the others that a good pair of jeans will help, but I personally prefer wearing dresses instead because they’re so easy and instantly polished, so I have a few casual shift dresses (Gap, Jcrew, loft, etc) that I wear for drinks or dinner in the summer. For the summer I also really like sandal heels with a block heel. I have a pair of leather RL sandals with about a 2 inch heel that I’ve worn to death, from TJ Maxx a few years ago

            1. OP, I am also 35 and had the same issue- good work wardrobe, but nothing on the weekend. Spent a few weeks online shopping and only kept a few pieces, but I already feel more stylish. Similar thoughts to the post above- get sandals with a block heel and slip on sneakers – keds also has some cute styles right now. I kept a pair of high-waisted shorts from Anthro, a button front cami dress from Pact, some Madewell tshirts, two soft print button up shirts that I can tie up or leave loose, and a pair of leopard flats with block heel and pointy toe. I’ll explore bootcut or flares when fall comes around. I also switched to more delicate jewelry. The key is trying current trends, but only keeping what you like. I managed to ride out the cold shoulder top trend to its very end with nary a one in my closet because they are not flattering on me and I don’t like them.

         2. I am a 42-year-old mom. For summer, you could create a great little casual wardrobe with just two or three cute dresses, a jean jacket, and sandals. I have the Old Navy swing dress and various other t-shirt dresses, but there are tons of cute floral dresses out there that aren’t t-shirt styles. Slip dress and wrap styles that hit above the knee or at midi length seem to be especially popular this season.

            The Madewell Jean Jacket in Pinter Wash is just fitted enough without being tight and goes with everything. I don’t care for the baggy jean jackets that are trending right now–they look like sloppy lab coats, especially over dresses. If jean jackets aren’t your thing, try a lightweight linen moto jacket or an open cardigan as a topper.

            As far as sandals go, either an espadrille wedge or a flat slide will be stylish. Check out Ancient Greek and Beek for inspiration on flat styles. Both are $$$, but there are tons of similar styles that are less expensive. For more comfort, the Birkenstock Mayari can’t be beat.

            1. I cannot even describe how much I despise those trucker oversized jean jackets. My teen daughters wear them and I just don’t get it. I have a cute fitted one from Kut in blue and another in white.

         3. I’d get a comfy pair of jeans (dark wash, straight leg), a couple of tops from somewhere like Amour Vert or Madewell, and sandals or slip ons in any color that is not white. I would avoid anything shapeless, no swing dresses from Old Navy or things like that.

            1. Light wash jeans are more popular than dark wash right now, but still too hot for summer wear. If OP doesn’t want to wear dresses, I’d suggest the Gidget cutoff short from Kut From the Kloth.

      2. Also, height and body shape?

         1. 5’3 and hour glassy

            1. Boden Richmond shorts – they come in a variety of lengths, I like the 6″ ones. I like them in fun or bright prints, and then I wear solid color tops (t-shirts, button downs, etc.) on top. I usually either wear Rothy’s points, boat shoes, or ballet slippers on the weekends. My kiddo is older, when I had to run after him on the regular my weekend wardrobe was boat shoes, longer shorts, and tucked in button down shorts (classic New England prep stuff) trendy? nope, but I looked classic and pulled together and it was all washable and very functional for weekends. I love the Lands End ponte sundresses for summer, also very comfortable, washable, and look very cute for date nights/brunches/etc. and you can easily throw a jacket on top:
               Richmond Shorts:
               https://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/richmond-shorts-tutti-fruity/sty-wj054-spk
               Lands end dress (this comes in a ton of solids and prints, I find the banded waist more flattering):
               https://www.landsend.com/products/womens-banded-waist-fit-and-flare-dress-knee-length/id_284770_59?sku_0=::IRC&dysku=5140627

   8. The Mom Edit blog has been really helpful for me with this question. (Works whether you are a mom or not).

      1. I love TME! I especially like Shana and Laura’s suggestions, even though I have to tone them down a bit to fit my real life.

3. No comment on the skirt but it’s nice to see a WOC model..And her skin is awesome.

   1. I love this! It looks so good on a woman with dark skin.

      That aside, this entire look is exactly how I thought I’d dress when I grew up.

   2. Thanks for saying this. Widespread representation of models with different skin tones (and while we’re at it different body types (despite this model being the obvious typical tall and thin) is important for people to see wearing fabulous clothes.
      That said, it grinds my gears, and has for years, when they preselect models and don’t have someone on site that can do their hair! This has been a gripe of models of color for years, and most of them do their own hair or bring wigs in various styles. This model’s skin is gorgeous – her hair looks like a three year old that just came from the play ground. I just can’t. A black woman would never wear her hair like this to work, it’s unkempt and screams, I just rolled out of bed.
      Signed, rant from a black woman in a corporate office setting.

      1. The white model shown wearing the same skirt also has messy hair.

         1. I think there is a difference between “messy chic hair down in a bob” and “in a ponytail with multiple spiky pieces falling out the back because the hair isn’t long enough and sticking out the sides” – she looks like she was in a roller coaster. You may not understand the culture around black hair but this is a THING and happens often – the models complain but feel like they don’t have the capital to say anything so they just roll with it. This hairstyle would not occur on a white model because the texture of their hair is different – hair falls down on the white model and sticks up on the black model. It makes it look much much worse – trust me I wouldn’t be saying this if the black model’s hair that couldn’t fit into the ponytail fell in curly wisps to the back of her neck (which they could have done with a curling iron but didn’t bother).

            But also, I’m not going to get into an argument on the politics of black hair on a corporate fashion blog. Suffice to say, the standards for unkempt hair is different based on hair texture and cultural expectations.

            1. Respectfully, are there any good resources for learning about black hair culture and maintenance? I’m white and don’t have a good sense of the point you mention above. I’d like to be more informed. Open from suggestions for anyone. TIA

            2. Google! If you want to be an ally, try and do some work.

            3. I am a black woman and I agree that no black woman would wear her hair like this to work. It looks like my hair would if I were throwing it up into a ponytail or bun to go to the gym or the like. You hit the nail on the head when you said that an unkempt ponytail looks different on non-textured hair.

      2. I’m a WOC, but not black. I think the model’s hair looks perfectly professional. I really dislike the idea that women have to spend a fair amount of time on their hair or have a high level of hair skill to look professional.

         That said, I totally agree that models should have access to people who know how to do their hair and makeup.

   3. I concur that it is nice seeing a WOC model. She is gorgeous!

4. Looking for a recommendation for a plaintiff side employment law attorney in the metro DC area. I am an in house attorney at a well known tech company who is experiencing gender, racial, and religious discrimination.

   1. Gilbert Employment Law, Silver Spring

   2. Correia & Puth, Katz Marshall Banks, or Outten & Golden – all in DC

   3. Sanford Heisler. I know Alexandra Harwin, in NY, and she’s excellent, and her firm has a DC office. They are associated with a lot of the big gendered cases (the MoFo case that’s ongoing, some of the Columbia University suits, and plenty more).

5. In light of all the anti-abortion action and propaganda we’re seeing these days, I was wondering how many of you have started using the phrase “people have abortions” rather than saying “women have abortions.” At least six Facebook friends (no one I’m close to) have posted calling for that and alleging that anyone who chooses not to is “erasing trans and non-binary people.” I personally disagree because I don’t believe it’s correct to obfuscate or minimize the misogyny that drives anti-abortion law (and in fact, it’s misogynistic to do so), but I’m wondering whether most of the highly educated women here are shifting to the new proposed language. If so, how do you think it will impact political advocacy-related women’s health (ie, do you think it will improve our messaging/support)? Also, it goes without saying that I support the right of anyone who needs an abortion to get one safely and inexpensively. I just decline to remove the word “woman” from my political vocabulary.

   I won’t be supporting Biden unless he’s the eventual nominee and I have no choice. Warren is the only candidate who is both brave enough and talented enough to propose real legislation protecting abortion instead of issuing the same ineffectual platitudes or equivocating. Protecting abortion rights for all women is my top priority now. Anyone with me on the Warren train?

   1. I will continue to say that women (and girls) get abortions, give birth, and have periods.

   2. You can acknowledge both the people who need abortions who aren’t women and the misogynistic intentions of these laws. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

      1. +1 – the motivations of a law are misogynistic, but they affect a larger swath of people than just cis women.

         1. So you support exclusively changing the language to never say the word woman again? That’s what these posts and articles are calling for. IMHO it’s the “all lives matter” of abortion activism.

            1. I am extremely involved in reproductive rights activism and have never seen anyone call for this. What I consider best practice is to refer to the person getting an abortion in a non gendered way – there is also the advantage here of using more medical language to emphasize that abortions are a medical procedure like any other. When talking about policy you can talk about the misogyny of the legislators, the policies, and the rhetoric, and that is where it is appropriate to say women. Misogyny and transphobia are deeply interconnected, if you can’t bring yourself to be sensitive towards the needs to trans people and advocate for them alongside your own rights you’re ultimately doing yourself a disservice too.

            2. + a million Anonymous @10:08

            3. Oh my god just stop. No one is calling for an “exclusive change in the language” and never saying the word women again. Just. Stop. If this is your understanding of what “all lives matter” means then you have a lot of work to do on your logical reasoning and your understanding of these particular social justice issues and how they are discussed in our society.

            4. No, people are literally posting saying that it’s transphobic and hateful to ever use the word “woman” instead of “people.” Maybe you aren’t seeing it or reading the same news articles, but don’t deny that it exists when you can easily Google it. I don’t stop talking about women’s issues for anyone, no matter what their own political issues are.

            5. What people? Who? Posting? Where? You’re the one making the assertion, you back it up. I’m not going to waste my time google searching for random instances of things that you’re pissed off about.

               I am really up to speed on reproductive justice issues. There are many respected outlets that do use the term “pregnant people” or “people with uteruses” and I understand why they do it. Ultimately, I agree that inclusion is important but also agree that there are many reasons to consider abortion bans a type of discrimination targeted at cisgendered women. That said, I have never seen anyone who isn’t some rando on twitter (which I’ve never actually seen) saying that it’s hateful to ever use the word women instead of people. I believe you are our usual transphobic poster and it’s annoying af. You obviously just want to fight about this here. Don’t you have anything better to do?

            6. Nice straw man and tr0ll post.

   3. I refuse to use “people needing abortions” or any such nonsense. This is a women’s health issue, misogyny drives the problem, and frankly I simply don’t care about whatever 3 people with uteruses who have s3x with people with pen1ses and get pregnant need. This isn’t a real issue worth anyone’s time, and every planned parenthood in the country will treat a man with a uterus.

   4. Every time we have one of these posts I have sort of rolled my eyes thinking this was a non-issue just trying to create a debate over trans rights. Then I saw something retweeted about some men having a uterus too and I was like, this is the least of our concerns right now. Sadly though, the world is so misogynistic that when we take the word “women” out of some things, it reads less emotional and more scientific. Like writing just because I have a uterus doesn’t mean I was put on earth to carry a child reads one way versus just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean I was meant to carry a child. Unfortunately a lot of people equate women with mom but haven’t really given much thought to biology so they don’t always equate uterus with child. I don’t see it as erasing women to talk more scientifically but I agree that there is a war on women right now that shouldn’t be overlooked.

   5. I’m excited about both Sanders and Warren. My parents have had a Warren for President bumper sticker on their car way before she announced.

      Also, despite living with a transman and living with another roommate who made one of the those posts for more inclusive language around abortion, I will not be changing my language. People in this country are more opposed to abortion than gay marriage, and I think its pretty telling that a gay man of color became the head of state in Ireland before women received the right to an abortion. We can support trans rights without changing the language around the abortion debate.

      1. It is a weird world indeed when Ireland has suddenly become a leader in progressive rights issues and they have done it based on public referenda.

   6. No, I’m not shifting my language. Abortion has been politicized and used as a weapon *against women* for decades, and I’m not OK with not acknowledging that.

      1. Same.

      2. This is how I feel as well. Preserving abortion rights protects everyone who needs an abortion, regardless of how they identify, but the desire to roll back those rights is openly aimed at controlling women specifically.

         1. OP here and I agree with this. I think our best chance at advocacy relies on correctly identifying and combatting misogyny. I cringe at the thought of a woke-af progressive chiding a moderate voter questioning the harshness of the Alabama law with “you mean people who get abortions, right? That’s so offensive.” We simply have to rally support and fight back against institutional misogyny (and we can be happy when the results of our efforts help everyone).

            1. It’s really obvious that you don’t do any repro justice work and just want to be transphobic. There are so many people (of a variety of genders) working their butts off to fight these laws, and give as many as people access to abortion – the caricature you’re creating here barely exists. I’m sure you could find us one or tow egregious examples and pretend that this is the norm, but this is not how most repro justice activists talk. I think you know this and you just want to stir up trouble instead of supporting the work that so many amazing organizers are doing.

            2. Anon at 12:13, I have long supported medication abortion and have conducted original, peer-reviewed research on the subject and volunteered with one organization that increases and promotes access. Since the time I worked there (about 1.5 years ago), the organization has completely erased the word “women” from its abortion information website. So has Planned Parenthood’s abortion page (if you can prove me otherwise, please do). ALL of the language is now “people who get abortions” and similar. Don’t tell me it’s just a few fringe activists when it’s really, truly not. Language means something and in this case, it threatens women’s ability to name and fight back against the growing misogyny that is going to erode women’s rights while progressives quibble about which words are woke enough.

         2. Trans men have died because they didn’t receive competent care when they got pregnant/miscarried/needed an abortion. this is not how it works.

   7. I’ve got 99 problems but this ain’t one

      1. You said it best. Shifting language to be inclusive of 1% of the population that might need abortion services is trying to shift the conversation into a trans issue. This IS an issue that can affect transmen, but it is a WOMAN’s issue at base. More correctly, it is a female issue (as even if you’re a transman, if you need abortion services, you are treating organs of the female sex), but using female as a replacement is not a solution as it is too often a descriptor to dehumanize women and more often than not used for animals.

   8. I try to be gender-inclusive in my language but generally do so by saying “reproductive health issues” instead of “women’s health issues” – and with abortion I generally say “women” even though I try to be gender-inclusive. I also am loud about supporting trans rights and non-binary people.

   9. Your second paragraph seems like a bit of a non-sequitor. What does Biden have to do with the trans-inclusive language or with abortion rights in general?

      1. I just posted that because Biden has been the Democratic darling lately, but his support for abortion rights is tepid at best and I feel that political advocacy from the pro-choice side needs to be really strong and united. Too many women might suffer when Biden “compromises” with the GOP and puts forward more restrictions on later-term abortions (something he supports).

   10. I really liked the clip from Samantha Bee that was posted on her Facebook account on Friday (it’s about 7 minutes). She goes through an abortion “lesson” for lawmakers and at the end she uses the phrase “women and vulnerable people.”

   11. There’s always a poster or two who uses every opportunity, any news story, to make sure we know that they don’t like trans folks and resent them for taking up space. Noted, ok?

       Here’s what I think:
       — Abortion restrictions are aimed at controlling women. (I mean, as much as an abstract thing can have an intention — there are some manipulated folks out there who think it’s about the rights of a fetus, but big picture, societally, it’s clearly about controlling women.)

       — Abortion restrictions harm anyone who might get pregnant. Transmen and NB folks can get pregnant.

       — It costs me nothing to try to get in the habit of using inclusive language when I’m talking about who might need an abortion. If we’re playing Oppression Olympics, I’m gonna go ahead and say that the trans/nb folks place ahead of women, even (especially?) when it comes to accessing s*xual health related care. So like I said, why not try to acknowledge that when it’s as easy as swapping out a few words?

       — Particularly online, my social circles are pretty progressive, and I’ve never heard anyone attempt to silence someone for talking about “women” w/r/t abortion… at most it’s a “yeah! and also trans and nb folx!!!” It sounds like this scary language policing is one of those boogeymen made up by TERFy types.

       1. Because 37,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions. Countless more women suffer from severe morbidity. You want to play Oppression Olympics? Death trumps hurt feelings and I frankly dgaf if the word “woman” gives someone the sads. Absolutely no one here is calling for restricting access to abortion for trans people or making it harder for trans people to find care. We are all (the pro-choice people, anyway) in favor of access for everyone who needs it. However, pretending that misogyny doesn’t exist or that trans people have it “even worse” than women when it comes to abortion rights is disingenuous at best and misogynistic at worse. Aren’t women ALWAYS being told to put others’ needs first, to put their own language last, to not use words to describe their bodies that make other people uncomfortable (vagina, period, etc)? How is this different?

          1. My point was simply that I don’t think that acknowledging that possession-of-a-uterus doesn’t overlap 100% with “womanhood” hurts *anyone* in this conversation? I don’t think acknowledging that is “pretending misogyny doesn’t exist” or putting anyone ahead of ciswomen?

             And I apologize if I was unclear, I wasn’t talking about “the sads” I was talking about how hard it is for non-cis folks to get medical care, which, y’know, can lead to not just sads, but death? And and and… discrimination, refusal to acknowledge someone’s personhood, scapegoating, dogwhistles… those things do lead to death-death, like the kind you’re dead from, not just sads. Like IDK Muhlaysia Booker like two days ago?

             I think that when folks are getting killed for daring to exist, and all I’m being asked to do is tweak my phrasing (when I remember! if it’s not too inconvenient! and actually no one has even expressly asked me to do it! i’m just trying my best!) to try to recognize their existence in a world that is hostile to it… just… why would I resent that request? Why is *that* the thing in this situation that I’d get worked up about?

             1. Look, I get that you’re trying to be inclusive and do the best you know how by disadvantaged groups, but would you advocate for a non-trans woman to show up at a support group for transwomen of color and demand to be centered in the discussion, that the language be changed to include her, that certain issues are off limits to discuss if they don’t apply to her too, and so on? I believe that oppressed groups have the right to their own spaces and discussions without interference from other groups, even if they also face significant challenges and injustices. When it comes to abortion advocacy, that includes the right to name, focus on, and politically organize against misogyny and efforts to control female reproduction. It’s okay for those efforts to not focus on trans people, just like it’s okay for Standing Rock advocacy to not focus on the struggles of asylum seekers or for proponents of greater trans access to social services to not focus on the needs of female domestic violence victims. Abortion IS a distinct issue from all other issues related to reproductive health and it doesn’t apply to everyone. It’s really, really important to me that women get to focus on their own advocacy without putting themselves second and letting their message get swallowed up by the needs of others.

             2. Rainbow Hair, just want to say that I completely agree with what you’re saying.

             3. Honestly Anon I’ve heard more fuss about this “issue” from you than literally anywhere else. EVEN IF people are using inclusive language, the conversation is in no way focused on trans people. The idea that “women’s” message on abortion is getting “swallowed up” by trans people is completely absurd. You also still don’t seem to understand that trans people need reproductive rights, too.

          2. Yep, in case there was any doubt that you just want to pick a fight about trans-rights, here we go.

             It’s not simply a question of hurt feelings or giving someone the sads, you immature jerk. It’s about access to medical care and legal protections. The fact that you would say that reflects your complete disregard for the health and rights and lives of trans people.

             1. That’s a strawman. No one on this board is calling to decrease access to medical care and legal protections for trans people. In fact, it seems like most people are all for protecting that access.

             2. No. It’s not. You do not appear to understand what a strawman argument is or why I said what I said. I am responding to this: “Death trumps hurt feelings and I frankly dgaf if the word “woman” gives someone the sads.” I am telling you that people are attempting to be inclusive for more important reasons than avoiding hurting feelings and “giving the sads.” The point of my comment was to convey to you that I understand your entire purpose here is to b*tch and moan about trans people.

       2. Rainbow Hair, I agree with you 100%. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. It’s greatly appreciated.

   12. What really gets me about this is that all this fuss about taxonomy and what language we use I feel is a bit of a distraction from the real policy issues that are affecting people. Well intentioned and thoughtful people like the ladies on this board can sometimes get really caught up in this battle over language and semantics and speaking out and amplifying voices and all that jazz, and I think sometimes people do all that and it convinces them that they’re really doing things to make a difference on these issues. Of course language matters, but policing it is one of the least impactful things that you can do to make the changes you want to see. We only have so much outrage, time, and emotional energy. I think folks who care about these issues should direct their energy elsewhere toward things that are more likely to materially change the situation and reserve the leftover energy for things like this that are just less impactful relatively speaking.

       Otherwise, the result is a lot of people who care a lot and feel like they’re doing a lot because they talk a lot, but there’s very little actual work that’s getting done to make an actual change.

       1. I tend to agree but from the opposite side.

          “Don’t make me acknowledge that some people who need abortions aren’t women!!!” isn’t the hill anyone should die on. Acknowledge it or don’t, if being anti-trans is so important to you, and then hit the streets/polls/whatever else. Coming onto this board every other week with a different angle to gripe about the existence of trans folks is not moving things forward for anyone.

          1. I don’t get the obsession over whether trans women are women are not. Honestly I do not care, and I don’t think about it. I think they deserve the same dignity of anyone else, and the my stand on relevant policy issues isn’t determined by whether they’re women are not. To me it’s a semantic difference that just doesn’t really matter. My position on abortion is the same regardless, for example.

       2. I agree with you, anon at 12:02. Abortion is a deeply troubling issue for me, and though I tend to land on the side of “my body, my choice,” any time the discussion veers into topics like misogyny, control of women, people versus women, etc. I need to back away a bit. My personal struggle is terminating a pregnancy ends a potential human life, and I need to think deeply about when or why this OK. Maybe the answer is always, maybe it’s sometimes, but it’s an issue I care about very deeply, and what I am focusing on.

          It’s OK if everyone jumps on my post defending abortion, that’s your right, and I respect it. I equally respect my right to decide what I can live with, and women vs. people isn’t even a remote concern.

   13. You know, I feel like there are issues that are trans issues and issues that are women’s issues and they are not all the same.

       This starts feeling like a “but what about the men? Won’t someone please think of the poor men?” thing. Like when there’s an article on rape and all the male commenters feel the need to point out that men get raped too, thereby minimizing women and the issue that this mostly happens to women, perpetrated by men.

       Abortion is mostly a women’s issue. Are there trans men who get abortions? I’m sure there are. But since so much of the hate on abortions is really hate on women and their bodily autonomy, I’m not sure the big tent doesn’t just water down the issue.

       As Betty White (purportedly) said, “if men got pregnant, abortion clinics would be like Jiffy Lube.”

       1. +1. All of this. It just serves to minimize the life-and-death struggle to get abortions that women all over the world face.

       2. I hadn’t heard the Betty White quote but Selina Meyer said “If men could get pregnant, you could get an abortion at an ATM.” And it’s SO TRUE.

6. I am your stereotypical type A, organized person with a planned schedule. I have a huge family that is spread out and spend time with them at least once a month in different states. Most of my friends know this and I often have weekend (not wedding – just weekend) plans penciled in several months in advance. I’m rarely late, always let people know if I’m going to be late/need to change something, etc.

   I am dating a guy who is the opposite. Doesn’t keep a calendar, is almost always late or forgets he has plans, or grossly underestimates how long it will take to complete tasks or get places. This is not just with me – it’s with work, family, our mutual friends. I am inclined to think this is fundamentally disrespectful, but someone recently pointed out his childhood had ADHD and he’s dyslexic. I haven’t asked him about this yet as I don’t have the right questions. Everything else in the relationship is good, but this is a big thing for me. Have any of you successfully navigated this type of difference in a relationship?

   1. Why? Just, why? He’s never going to fit into your life, never going to change. You don’t need to have some long series of interventions about his childhood, you need to break up because this doesn’t work for you.

   2. This is not fundamentally disrespectful, it’s just that he underestimates how much time it takes to get places or may even have unreasonably high expectations for himself about how much he should be able to get done or how quickly he should be able to get somewhere. You obviously feel great contempt for him and are in the early stages of dating, so it’s a good time for you to acknowledge that you are not compatible and get out of the relationship.

      1. Yep. You two are not compatible. You think your way is right and you are better than he is, and that is not a recipe for a good relationship.

         See also, “the relationship stands or falls on its worst parts, not its best parts.”

   3. There was a NYT article years ago that made an impact on me about ADD/ADHD in relationships. And it sounds like this guy has (had?) a diagnosis, actually? Basically, the point was that you have to let go of attaching the respect issue to these actions. Example: I notice when I leave cabinets open in the kitchen & always shut them so no one hits their head. My spouse doesn’t….but it’s because he doesn’t notice, not because he doesn’t care if I hit my head. Plus, I notice so many more details than my spouse does. And it’s not an issue of not caring.

      I do think with what you are describing, there are some things to try to address. Like why not keep a calendar? I’ve also told my spouse that even if we are going to a nearby restaurant, we cannot leave at the time we said we would meet people. It’s emotional labor on me, but he does get a little better, but I also accept that I’ll be the one initiating the “when should we leave convo” for the most part and that sometimes we won’t be as prompt as I would have liked.

      I think it would be really hard to deal with this in a relationship with someone who did not acknowledge that it bothers you and try to come up with strategies for both of you to work on (maybe you reframe some of your thinking, and he implements concrete changes to his routine). My spouse tries to implement realistic changes that he can make to kind of meet me halfway — like he might not notice when the garbage needs to go out, but he can develop a routine where taking the garbage out every “x” day is on his list, so he does it.

      1. OMG, my husband does the not closing cabinet doors thing and it drives me up a wall. He has not been diagnosed with ADHD but thinks he is ADHD, so there’s that.

         1. The cabinet doors can seem kind of petty, but it’s the example I always think of, because if I walked out of the kitchen with all the cabinets open, it would be intentional and I would be saying I was pissed. So it seemed natural to me to assume that my spouse doing it was some passive aggressive thing…but no.

            And this is the article that helped me start reframing, even though my spouse did not have a diagnosis at the time (does now). https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/attention-disorders-can-take-a-toll-on-marriage/

            1. This article solidifies my thoughts that my husband very well does suffer from ADHA. I have been viewing him not closing the cabinet doors or putting the cap back on the milk and putting it in the fridge as carelessness and laziness, when it is probably distraction and disorganization, as the article talks about. Thanks for sharing!

         2. My husband does not have ADHD and leaves the cabinet doors open all time. But then again, he’s the one who’s always subsequently bumping his head on the open cabinet door and cursing it out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

   4. Even if he does have ADHD, it’s sort of alarming that he hasn’t yet developed coping mechanisms to decrease the likelihood of forgetting stuff. Needing a calendar to keep track of appointments is, I don’t know, an adult thing, not an ADHD thing. (I’m not sure how dyslexia is relevant here.) I do think you need to have a conversation with him, just to get an idea of why it’s happening, and whether it bothers him. Not in a confrontational way, but more to … lay it all out there, so to speak. His response will tell you a lot. I gotta say, though, as someone similarly wired to you — this would be a dealbreaker for me. I’ve had a hard enough time maintaining friendships with people who are all la-di-dah about time management. I know *they* don’t view it as disrespectful, but I sure do, and it’s hard to get past it. Know your limitations, and all that.

      1. Also, just as a point of educating others, you don’t outgrow ADHD. A child with ADHD is an adult with ADHD. Some tasks are *always* going to be more challenging for someone with the condition, but it is possible to change behaviors and build up your own coping mechanisms. Anon 9:16 has some really good examples.

         (I’m parenting a kiddo with ADHD. I don’t have much experience with how it presents in adults, yet. I would check out some resources for couples on the ADDITUDE website.)

      2. “it’s sort of alarming that he hasn’t yet developed coping mechanisms to decrease the likelihood of forgetting stuff.”

         This assumes his ADHD isn’t severe. It may be that he’s using medication/coping mechanisms to the best of his ability but that doesn’t mean he’ll be able to get to 100% neurotypical behavior.

         1. It’s also possible, given that the OP wrote that “his childhood had ADHD,” that he doesn’t have a current diagnosis. That may frame whether he is getting help to develop tools to mitigate some of the impacts.

      3. ADD/ADHD can also worsen as you age. My husband’s ADD now is exponentially worse than it was in high school.

         Also note that many of the neurotransmitter issues present in ADD/ADHD are thought to be linked to the neurotransmitter issues present in dementia.

         1. Well damn, this is not what I wanted to learn today. :(

   5. Honestly, that’s going to be a major challenge to overcome. I don’t think I would do it. My husband has ADHD, but is almost never late to anything we’re doing together because he’s knows it’s important to me and he has figured out strategies to be places on time (heavy reliance on his calendar). If your new date isn’t even taking steps, then I’d bow out unless you want to spend your life fighting frustration.

   6. DH has neither ADHD nor dyslexia but struggles with planning, especially anything beyond 6 weeks. This wasn’t such an issue when it was just us but add three kids and it’s a real challenge. I end up doing a lot of the ’emotional labor’ around planning which can be exhausting/frustrating. Some of it is inate – I see the difference in our twins. One is very laid back and ‘in the moment’ whereas the other is like me and loves routines/knowing the ‘plan’. That said, I’m the one who underestimates how long it will take to do things/get places and I’m constantly late. That frustrates DH as well. It’s actually so bad he’s questioned if I have ‘time blindness’ which is characteristic of ADD/ADHD.

      Not sure if any of that helps you. Basically, it can work but it will involve compromise on both your parts and acceptance that the other isn’t ‘perfect’. He’ll have to step up but you will have to let go of the planning obsession as well.

   7. My dad once offered me this nugget of wisdom: if something annoys you now about a person, it’s not going to stop annoying you, it will only get more annoying over time.

      While this may or may not be true, it comes down to this: he is probably not going to change, he might, but if he is not, are you willing to accept this about him? I believe Senior Attorney calls it ‘price of admission’. It sounds like in this case it might be too high, but if you otherwise like him, you might as well have the conversation and work out if it is a fundamental incompatibility.

   8. That doesn’t seem fundamentally disrespectful to me, but it does seem fundamentally incompatible, and that’s a perfectly justifiable reason to kindly say, “no, this isn’t going to work.” You can give him the chance of having the discussion if you like, but that’s up to you.

   9. Does he think this is a problem? Even if you haven’t had a Talk about it, surely it has come up. Have you expressed frustration or disappointment? How does he respond? If he’s frustrated with himself then that’s a good sign – and maybe it’s worth suggesting that he meet with someone who specializes in adult ADHD issues so he can develop some strategies. But if he’s perfectly content with the way things are, then I don’t think that’s an ADHD issue, I think it’s a values issue. Some people just don’t put a very high value on time or togetherness or punctuality. They don’t mind if other people waste their time so they don’t see a problem with wasting other people’s time. If that’s his outlook, you’re not going to convince him that he’s being disrespectful.

   10. Reader, I married him. Accommodating my husband’s pattern has been an area of personal growth for me, which is to say it’s been painful, frustrating but I think has helped my interactions with other people. One thing that helped was that DH had a ‘come to Jesus moment’ when he showed up an hour late for a job interview (I don’t recommend this method). For a while he relied on me to remind him of plans. I asked him to participate in a family calendar because it was a lot of work on my end to be his reminder system. I still often remind him about things a day or two in advance. I also try to be more relaxed and go-with-the flow – e.g. it doesn’t actually matter if we make it to the drugstore today or tomorrow. On the plus side, I can be overly rigid and DH brings a lightness to my life that I would otherwise be missing. He plays with our kids with a spontaneous warmth that I just don’t have.

   11. My husband has ADHD (with a late-in-life diagnosis) and he did a lot of these things early on in our relationship. I think it’s true that it’s not a fundamental lack of respect on his part, but as a similarly type-A person, it drives me crazy. He is otherwise great so we found ways to make it work – joint calendar, multiple reminders, and a few times when he was late enough that I just got up and left – no, I won’t sit alone in a restaurant for one hour waiting for you unless you have a very very good reason for being caught up. To be fair, the reverse doesn’t really bother him, but he know understands how much it bothers me and has developed his own coping mechanisms.
       Basically, if you care about this person, there are ways you can make this better if you’re prepared to both make compromises. But if you aren’t sure about him in general, this may be one of the ways in which you just aren’t compatible, and that doesn’t make you or him a bad person.

   12. You said this is a big thing for you, so I think you have your answer. This is not going to work long term and will just cause resentment on both sides. You are not compatible with each other. This would really bug me too. I’m not type A nor have a very busy life, but what you described sounds very annoying to me.

   13. My husband has both ADHD and dyslexia. Organization and keeping a calendar can be difficult for him. It took him a long time, but he figured out how to keep a calendar and leave before the time he was supposed to be there. Honestly, I didn’t try to change this about him if it didn’t impact me. The thing that motivated him was being on time because he was with me and then having to wait on his ADHD family members. As a person with ADHD, my husband hates waiting and being bored, so he started to understand how much it stinks to be the person who’s waiting on the late person. From living with me and getting ready for events with me, DH learned some about how to work backwards to plan to be somewhere on time. He has also developed his own coping mechanisms, which involve a lot of to-do lists and calendars and phone reminders. If he puts in the address of where he’s going, the phone tells him when he needs to leave.

       Anyways, I mostly agree with the “price of admission.” My husband wanted to change, and still struggles 15 years later. (He took Kiddo to play therapy in a swimsuit yesterday because they were swimming when the “time to leave” alert when off on his phone–but they made it to therapy more or less on time.)

       Also, there may be a fundamental difference between you and the guy you’re dating about how much to plan in advance. I don’t mind planning some things in advance, and it’s important to me to be on time when I have plans. But I am much more OK with spontaneity than many other “Type A” people. There are many weekends when we have nothing planned and start texting friends on Friday evening or Saturday morning. Last year, we got home one Friday afternoon around 4, realized we had no plans, decided to drive to the beach (4 hours away) for the weekend, packed, picked the kid up at daycare, and left at 6. DH and I have thrown dozens of impromptu dinner parties, some with as little as 30 minutes’ notice. Anyways, there’s a difference between someone who forgets plans and appointments or is always late and someone who just doesn’t make plans very far in advance and enjoys spontaneity. If there’s an incompatibility there, it probably won’t change, and there’s nothing “wrong” or “more adult” about either person.

   14. I married someone like this. No ADHD but very poor planning, remembering and execution capabilities. This was all fine until we had kids. Now it really, REALLY annoys the crap out of me that he needs 15 reminders to take the kid to the dentist. I feel like the only adult in my house at times.

   15. You’re not compatible. Do both of you a favor and dump him.

   16. How comfortable will you be with running his schedule/life after you move in together, get married, and/or have kids? My husband is definitely more Type B than Type A (I’m more of an A minus), and I’ve had to train myself NOT to care when he neglects things that would get done if I was doing them (e.g., sending birthday presents to parents).

7. Help! I threw out my back last night. Besides icy hot and ibuprofen, what are you go to tips for a fast recovery?

   1. Massage therapy. I slipped on ice in the winter and could barely move – massage therapy, hot water bottle, stretching and not sitting for more than 20 minutes without walking around a bit all helped.

   2. Physio and heat – my physio always says “the back loves heat.”

   3. Get thee to a doctor and get an X ray to make sure no structural issues that require bed rest. My mom threw out her back slipping and falling, and discovered she suffered multiple fractures to the spine *three years later* when she went to the doc for a different issue, and the fractures all healed wrong (Granted, there wasn’t much correction the doc would have been able to do, but her moving around and putting pressure on her broken spine certainly didn’t help. Plus she was in so much pain without meds but she didn’t think to see a doc).

   4. Depending on how bad it is, I would go to your doctor or an urgent care. It happened to me about a year ago and I couldn’t bend over without seeing stars. My doctor gave me muscle relaxers and steroids (to help with the inflammation).

      1. ^ same. I couldn’t walk without crying in pain, and I got muscle relaxers and a steroid shot in my back. It helped immensely.

   5. I go to my chiropractor

   6. A hot bath or long shower, plus a TENS unit if you can get your hands on one.

   7. GET medical advice. Then physical therapy. Long-lasting Tylenol and Lidocaine patches, maybe very short term steroids, AFTER getting medical advice. Hot showers.

   8. Go to a doc, a muscle strain and a disk issue should be treated very differently.

8. Hi, I’m a short and curvy orson looking for maxi dresses that can work on someone well endowed up there… most of the cute ones seem to suppose everyone is ok without a br@! I got a couple of basic (single color) ones but would appreciate links and recommendations on cuter ones. (Also still can’t do jumpsuits, I like to not have to struggle that much to p ee). Thanks!

   1. I like the Lands End maxi dresses. I am 5’0 / 32DDD and I have a couple of them and the petite length is perfect for me. I I think I have them in petite-small. The ones I have are v-neck and I wear a camisole underneath.

   2. There is a gorgeous green one at J.Jill now that comes in the petite size run. It fit this short cusp size well in large (I usually size down in their stuff; cuts are what they call “generous”). The only reason I did not buy it was I was looked for something more upscale, but YMMV.

   3. I just got the Athleta Playa Maxi dress in both colors because i loved it so much. It is racer back with thick straps so I can wear a sports bra/regular bra with it. Super stretchy and comfortable and it comes in regular, petite, tall, and plus sizes. Highly recommend! I just wish it came in more colors/prints!

      https://athleta.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=210910042

   4. You can try and look for one with a kimono style top part. Here’s an example:
      https://www.bravissimo.com/products/kimono-maxi-dress-redwhite-pd659rwh/

9. I’m a member of the NY and MA Bars, though I haven’t practiced law since 2014 and I no longer live near either of those states. Taking the bar exam was literally traumatizing for me, so I keep paying Bar dues just in case one day for some reason I end up back in those states/have to practice again, but it feels like a colossal waste of money. Can you get re-instated to a bar if you’ve stopped paying dues or do you have to retake the test?

   1. It will depend on the state, and I don’t know about those two. Many states seem to have an “inactive” option, but anecdotally I’ve heard that they have a lot of discretion in deciding what you have to do to go active again. Something like making up a few years worth of CLE seems standard, but have also heard of having to retake the bar :(

   2. It’s going to depend on the specific state. Some states have “inactive” statuses so you can pay much less in dues – at least in the state I’m inactive in, if I want to switch to active status, I have to show I’m up-to-date on my CLEs and pay the difference in dues between inactive and active status.

      1. This is how it works when you go inactive in MA (though since we don’t have CLEs here you only have to pay the difference)

   3. Stay active in Massachusetts, since your only requirement is to pay dues every year ($350 or so).

   4. In MA, just go inactive. You can reactivate at any time just by paying the annual fee for that year.

   5. I don’t know about MA, but NY annoyingly doesn’t have an inactive status for bar members. If you aren’t practicing law anywhere, you can take retired status and I think it’s fairly easy to “unretire” if you start practicing again. You can resign but then it’s harder to reactive (info here-https://www.nycourts.gov/courts/ad2/attorneymatters_NondisciplinaryResignation.shtml). Add to this the fun wrinkle that even if you’re an admitted attorney, you can’t actually practice law if you live out of state unless you have a physical office in the state (case is Schoenefeld); I’ve considered resigning my NY bar license multiple times for that reason since my firm doesn’t have an office in NY, but ultimately keep hanging on to it just in case I need it one day because I don’t want to deal with getting reinstated.

      1. thank you! Sounds like it might make sense for me to “retire” in NY and keep paying the inactive status in MA. The only circumstance in which I can think of having to resume practicing law and potentially move to NY or MA is if g-d forbid something terrible were to happen to DH and we had to move closer to family (we have life insurance), though I would have to do some kind of retraining/re-entry program since it will have been quite a while since I practiced. Just feels like a waste to spend $700+ a year on bar dues when I don’t practice and live halfway across the country

10. Columbus/Cinci/Southern Ohio meetup!

    Tentative date is next Friday evening (the 31st), for drinks, between Columbus and Cincinnati.

    Anyone interested, please email (at the mail of g), either:
    I Am An Epic Warrior
    Or
    Eowyns Mom 2018

    (Remove spaces)

11. I’m a junior associate in biglaw that’s liking it more than I thought I would. I never expected I’d want to make partner, but am now more curious about the path to partnership than I was before. That said, I’m still junior, and I recognize that there’s a loooong path from now to partnership that I don’t know about. Yesterday I had a conversation with an male partner in my group that’s about to retire about the maternity leave policy for one of our clients, and that led to a discussion about being able to “do both” (i.e., have a family and be partnership) at our firm. He was praising our firm’s position on gender saying that “of course you add a year to your partnership track every time you take maternity leave” but that there is “no mommy track” at our firm. It seems nuts to me that you would lose a year each time, but he explained that the leave plus the wind down and ramp back up equates to roughly a year. Does anyone have insight on how having kids affects the partnership track at other firms? Is the delay inevitable? Also what is “mommy track” in reference to–isn’t adding a year per kid for mothers per se “mommy tracking” them? Or does mommy track mean part-time? I don’t think attorneys work part time here (at least I haven’t seen it, and I’ve seen several attorneys return from maternity leave).

    1. “Mommy track” is generally used to refer to the sidelining of women that occurs when they become parents, whether because they start receiving less-challenging, lower-profile assignments or because they are offered part-time status that (while sold as an option that won’t hurt your career) practically results in being treated as a second-class citizen.

       In general, partnership processes tend to have some flexibility – so maybe you’re not eligible to be considered before year 7, but you’ve got up to 10 years before you have to either make partner or leave (in an up or out system). So there are always a lot of factors that go into the decision around when you seek (or are put up for, depending on your firm’s system) partnership.

       Whether what he’s describing is a good thing or a bad thing REALLY depends on your firm. At my firm, when you go up for partner, if you don’t make it, you’re done – you look for another job and you leave (this isn’t as harsh as it sounds; our partnership process is 2 years long and you know halfway through, a year before the formal decision, if you’re unlikely to make it). When the decision is made, our committee looks at your last 3 years of numbers (so the 2 years you’re in the process and the 1 year prior). You want those numbers to be really good. It can be really tough to have 3 years of good numbers if you’ve taken parental leave, because given the ramp up/ramp down, your hours are often soft even with proration. Once you start the 2-year process, we do not extend it for any reason. That means you really don’t want to take parental leave once you enter the process, because it is really hard to put up the hours and do the networking and other stuff you need to do in order to demonstrate your capacity to generate business if you’re out for a big chunk of that 2-year period. The committee does their best to imagine how you would have performed if you hadn’t had that event, but I think you would unavoidably be at a disadvantage, if only because you’re not in front of them day in/day out.

       In our system, you can choose when you enter the process, but you have to enter by year 10. So I can see that if you had an unusual situation – like you lateral’d close to year 10 and then took mat leave – having the opportunity to extend the timeline could be really helpful. If you are forced to extend – as in, you’re not eligible because you took leave – that would be another story.

       At my firm, in general, people do not choose to go up for partner at the first opportunity – any number of events, including mat leave, a family illness, ups and downs in the economy, etc. can mean that people don’t feel like they’re ready yet to make the best case for themselves. Having the opportunity to extend the timeline would definitely be seen as an advantage by many associates in my firm.

    2. Adding a year to the partner track for each maternity leave is absurd and not in step with the market. You may want to make partner in big law, but you may not want to make it here – the fact that they formally add a year to partnership track for taking a three month maternity leave without taking into account pro rata hours, relationships with clients, and past performance tells you all you need to know about how they respect motherhood – they are literally making you work longer and harder for the same goal as a guy who may be out three months for another medical issue.

       Mommy track typically means a much slower track or a non-promotable position – your firm has a mommy track.

       1. Yeah, if they formally require this, that’s bad and would be super out of step with market. If they offer it as an option (i.e., you have a deadline by which you must make partner or leave, but you can extend that by a year for each mat leave), that’s a different story. It really depends on which we’re talking about (and also how the rest of the process works, how hours proration works, etc.).

    3. I left Big Law as a fifth year so take this with the proverbial grain of salt, but I don’t think adding a year to your partnership clock for each kid is “mommy tracking.” To me, mommy tracking means going part-time (informally or formally) or being denied opportunities because you’re pregnant or a mom. For example, partners assuming a woman with kids won’t want to travel and assigning an out of town hearing to a male associate instead is sort of what I think of as classic mommy tracking. At a lot of firms, it’s sort of up or out to make partner so having more time could actually be a good thing.

       1. But adding a year to a woman’s partnership clock every time she has a baby IS denying her an opportunity because she’s pregnant or a mom. So I would not view OP’s firm as very friendly to moms, if only for that reason.

    4. I think it varies pretty significantly by firm, but “mommy track” often means putting women (mothers) into non-partnership-track roles or positions. I would also say that adding a year to the partnership track based on maternity leave taken (or not) probably varies by firm, department, and individual (i.e., all the things that go into when and whether a person makes partner). I’m not sure he told you very much of substance, but to my jaded ears, it sounds like he was telling you it’s a long path to partnership for women who have children and that the firm may be somewhat inflexible.

       1. +1

    5. Figure out if your firm has a non-equity tier. If it does, it is ridiculous to add a year for maternity leave.

       1. It does. We have a lot of non-equity partners, and I know that making equity is seen as very difficult.

          1. I would proceed with caution in this case. If the policy is a blanket add a year for each maternity leave that is both absurd and out of sync with market. The ramp up/ramp down plus taking even a six month leave still does not translate to a full year. If that’s the view they have, that’s not a good sign. I agree with the poster above that taking a maternity leave close to the time of consideration for partnership definitely could impact the view but that’s a different calculation. But to say that taking a maternity leave as a fourth year automatically adds a year to the track is insane to me.

    6. Honestly, he could talking out of his a**, and it might not be a policy or even a thing that happens. My experience is that the partners of a certain attitude/vintage have no idea what the law firm policies actually are. Actually, I don’t think it could even be a formal policy. Anecdotally, I went on three maternity leaves, and made partner with my class (which was on a loooong track, as we only have one tier), even though I was fully expecting to be delayed by at least a year.

12. Is anyone at Collision in Toronto? Want to meet up?

13. I’m visiting a friend for the first time since she had her baby 2 months ago, and would like to get her something for herself. What would you recommend? I suspect flowers are out, and was thinking maybe sweets? Budget is $30~$50.

    1. Sweets might not be a great option if she’s trying to lose the baby weight. How about bringing a dinner for the freezer or even a fresh dinner for that evening?

       1. Fresh, healthy, home-cooked food was the best at that stage! It was so hard to manage cooking good food and it’s not like you can order something home-cooked very easily.

    2. Food would be great!

       If she’s nursing, she’s likely hungry and thirsty all the time. I loved water bottles, especially the type with reusable straws. Snacks you can eat with one hand (again, while nursing) are great.

       I would’ve loved a pretty reusable coffee cup and a gift cert to the local coffee shop.

    3. Edible Arrangements. Can eat the cut up fruit as is or toss into smoothies or freeze for later use.

    4. I would have loved sweets while I was on mat leave but I wasn’t especially focused on losing every last pound ASAP. I think you know your friend – if she’s very conscious of her weight to begin with, sweets probably aren’t the best choice. But if she isn’t the type to obsess over what she eats, sweets are probably fine.

    5. Pedicure!

    6. Earrings or something similar that is guaranteed to fit.

    7. Massage certificate, gift basket with toiletries for her instead of stuff for the baby.

14. Why is moderation out of control lately? I still go to mod every time (despite the email trick, which I’ve stopped bothering with), but I’ve been in mod for nearly an hour now and judging by how comments seem to appear in batches, others are too. Kat, you have staff members. Please fix this (and don’t let this post die in mod either).

    1. Having the same issue.

       1. Same

    2. I thought they just didn’t like me :-P

       1. Same.

    3. Yup. The mom’s site doesn’t have this issue. I don’t understand why this keeps being a problem.

       1. On the other hand, comments here come out of m0d within 15-30 minutes usually. On the moms page, if you do go to m0d, you end up in purgatory all day and your comment is released after in the evening, when nobody will see it. I actually find the m0d on the mom’s page WAY more frustrating.

    4. I had that issue yesterday, and posting about it doesn’t seem to help since she seems to not read comments.

       1. Yeah, it’s now been two hours since my comment was lost to mod and of course there’s been no response from on high. It’s really, really annoying that readers have brought this issue up on a regular basis for at least 7-8 years and it’s never substantially addressed. Whatever “fix” was implemented a few months ago clearly isn’t working and it’s a shame when the comments are what keep most of us coming here.

    5. Glad it’s not just me! (Waiting for this to also go to mod)

    6. Same but only at work. I emailed and didn’t hear a response (and EVERYTHING disappears into the black hole). Phone is fine about 70% of the time. So annoying.

15. In case there’s interest in personal finance — there’s an interesting article in MarketWatch today regarding what the “right” number is to set aside for retirement. In most things you read when you talk to most FAs, you get — well things depend on your particular situation, there is no right number etc. Yet people just want to know if they’re in the ball park. So based on a study of millions of people it turns out that # is 10% starting in your mid 20s. Meaning between you and your employer you should be putting 10% into your 401k. Contributing 10% starting in your mid 20s not matter what your income level cuts your risk of running out of money in retirement down to 30%; and the more you contribute past 10%, the greater the incremental reduction in risk below 30%. And the 10% number only applies if you start by your mid 20s; if you start later, then the yearly % must be higher. Thought it was interesting. Thoughts from the hive?

    1. Makes sense to me–it’s just simple arithmetic. Financial advisors don’t like easy answers like “invest 10% of your income in such-and-such a mix of index funds” because it cuts into their profits.

    2. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    3. The income percentage thing has never made sense to me. Your costs in retirement aren’t that tied to your costs while you’re working. Many high earners live in VHCOL areas while they’re working but will downsize to a smaller property in a lower cost of living area when they retire and their costs will go way down relative to their income as compared to lower earners. And by far the most expensive thing that can happen to you in retirement is health problems, especially dementia, necessitating 24/7 care. A high earner is no more likely to get dementia than a low earner. I’ve always thought aiming for a dollar amount makes way more sense, although of course it’s easier for higher earners to hit a higher dollar amount with sacrificing the rest of their lifestyle. DH and I currently save $75k/year (combined) but we didn’t start saving until around age 30.

       1. That is not true. Most people’s lifestyles and spending match their income, most people do not move when they retire, and higher medical costs are tied to higher cost of living areas.

          Of course if you’re going to do something different you can plan differently, but don’t say the % of income doesn’t apply to most people because it absolutely does.

          1. Many people also own their homes outright by the time they retire meaning their housing costs are significantly less and housing costs generally make up the largest portion of people’s fixed expenses

          2. Your statement about healthcare costs has really has not been my experience – it was cheaper to put my grandmother in 24/7 nursing care in Center City, Philadelphia than in the Midwest or rural New England. Many friends have similar stories with parents/grandparents. Just like cleaning services and nannies tend to be cheaper in NYC than in the suburban Midwest, I think that healthcare and eldercare can be cheaper too -there is more demand and more infrastructure in major cities, and (perhaps most importantly) many more people willing to take minimum wage jobs that a lot of people see as undesirable.

             I realize many people don’t want to move as soon as they retire, but a $300k earner in SF with a paid-off $2M house does not need 6 times as much retirement income as a $50k earner in Missouri with a paid-off $200k house. For one thing, thanks to their house they have a way higher net worth, but even if they don’t want to sell their house, their non-housing daily costs are just not that 6 times the costs of the person in Missouri. Maaaaaybe double, and I think that’s generous (having lived in both places). I can see an income-based rule making more sense if your house is not paid off and you expect to be paying a mortgage in retirement, but most people I know (of all incomes) plan to pay off their mortgage before they retire.

             1. All of these responses/anecdotes are coming from a very privileged upper middle class to wealthy perspective. Please try to keep in mind that the posters on this board in no way represent average. Also please remember that anecdotes do not equal data.

                I’m a finance professional and do work with a foundation that promotes financial literacy. Please don’t put bad information out there where someone my come across it and think it is the gospel.

             2. I see you don’t know about California property tax.

             3. @Anon at 1:29, Yes, I’m privileged and never said I wasn’t. So are many people reading here. I never professed to be spreading the gospel or claimed any kind of credentials that make me an expert. I shared why, based on my experiences, a percentage of your income rule does not make much sense *to me.* Obviously anyone is free to make a different choice for them.

                @Anon at 1:38 – Huh? Property taxes in California tend to be lower than many states where the overall cost of living is much lower. Of course the property taxes on a $2M home will be much higher in dollars than the property taxes on a $200k home (although there are a lot of loopholes and most of my friends in SF have their homes assessed at way less than what they could sell them for).

             4. Ok day your $6m homeowner in SF got a smoking deal and grandfathered their home value in at $3m. Their property taxes are $50,000+ per year and climbing with inflation at around 2% per year under prop 13. That’s the loophole you’re talking about. There aren’t other loopholes unless you’re talking about a commercial building.

                In any case $50,000 for property tax per year is much higher than anyone in a LCOL area is going to be paying on a $200k house, to use your example. That’s why, shocker!, expenses in retirement are closely related to expenses during one’s working years.

             5. My example was contemplating a $2M home – I think you’d have to earn way more than $300k (or have other sources of money) to buy a $6M home in SF. My friends own homes in the $2M range that are assessed at more like $1M for property tax purposes, so their taxes are under $10k/year. It’s a significant expense, but it doesn’t seem like a life-changing amount of money as compared to, say $3k/year, which is what I pay on property taxes on a ~$200k home in a LCOL area. And it’s certainly not higher by a factor of 6, which is the income differential in my example.

             6. I own a home in the Bay Area with a valuation for tax purposes of just over $1m. My taxes are $17,000 a year. Tell me how your friends are paying $10k please.

       2. I don’t think it’s quite that simple to cut back your lifestyle in retirement. High earners who are used to fancy things aren’t just going to give those up when they retire, and they’re going to want to start traveling more.

          As far as saving for dementia care goes, ha ha ha if you think a low-income or middle-income person has any prayer of being able to save up for that. That is literally millions and millions of dollars beyond the millions of dollars already required for ordinary retirement expenses, which just isn’t realistic for anyone but extremely high earners. LTC insurance can help, but is becoming less available and more expensive.

          1. I am very curious about others views on health expenses in retirement. Am I crazy in that once my kids are grown that I expect I would opt out of treating most major health issues that have expensive treatments? Or that I would look into medically assisted suicide with some sort of springing proxy if I end up with dementia? I honestly don’t understand the obsession with living a long life just for the sake of a long life. I’d rather die at 65 than live to 80 with 10 years of intensive cancer treatment + side effects.

             1. I don’t think you know how you’re going to feel about it until you’re that age.

             2. It’s nowhere near as easy as you’re making it out to be, especially if you have dementia. Physician assisted suicide is only legal in a handful of US states, and even then only if you have a terminal illness. When you have advanced dementia (and even sometimes if you’re clear-headed but frail physically), long-distance travel is likely hard to impossible. Dementia isn’t a “terminal illness” in the classic sense of the term, so getting a physician to assist with suicide before you spend down your savings on long-term care is going to be extremely challenging.

             3. It’s mostly not that black and white. People slide into elder issues. It’s not like life is lovely one day and absolutely unlivable the next.

                Your hip starts hurting in your 50s (ask me how i know), then you start having some arrhythmia problems around 60, you’re on some medications for cholesterol and blood pressure by then, and your hearing is getting worse, and when you get a cold now it lasts a month, and it’s just a bunch of little things that accumulate to a new base level.

                But every day when you wake up, life is basically worth living and you have things you look forward to, like seeing your friends or your grandkids, or even your favorite TV shows.

                My mom lived a number of years with chronic lung issues (COPD) that put her in the hospital at least twice per year, and sometimes it was touch and go and she pulled through. Her healthcare was incredibly expensive, particularly for the last couple of years where she could no longer care for herself and lived full time in either a nursing home or assisted (very assisted) living. But there was no discussion of “pulling the plug” because there was no plug to pull. No ethical doctor would have taken her off breathing treatments, for instance, because she still had quality of life. She was not as sharp as she once was but she still knew her loved ones and joked around with and even flirted with her medical professionals.

                I think it’s easy to be a relatively young person and make blanket statements like “I would never want to live that way.” But you don’t know until you’re there.

             4. +1 to it’s not that easy. My grandmother had Alzheimer’s and very much wished to die for the last 10 years of her life. Her children were willing to let her go, but short of killing her themselves (which is a crime) the best they could do was a legal directive for absolutely no medical interventions. And even that was frequently not followed. She got pneumonia once and was put on a ventilator against the express instructions of nursing home staff and her legal documents. And once they’re on the ventilator, it’s more complicated to remove it because doctors have that whole “do no harm” rule to follow. It was a source of endless frustration for my mom and aunts. Given the option, everybody in my immediate family would choose a peaceful death at the onset of dementia, but that is truly not an option for most people, at least in the United States. I envy people in other countries who have more options.

             5. At anon at 2:21 this is where I fall. I really hate the limited options in the US.

                Maybe it’s just a cultural thing in my family but refusing “excess” medical care/interventions is something I’ve seen all my grandparents/great grandparents do. I’ve had three grandparents/great grandparents refuse cancer treatment for example and live several years after. I see myself making the same choice if it comes to that. Of course I won’t know until I’m there and maybe I will feel differently but I find it very frustrating how much the US is obsessed with longevity. I think other countries are much more sensible in their approach where the sole goal isn’t to keep people alive.

       3. The moving off to FL for retirement thing has gone done a lot statistically. If you’re planning that, great. But anecdotally and there’s broader research on it — more and more people are staying where they lived previously often because they are kids/grandkids nearby. I still think if you’re from NJ or Va or wherever, you should save as if you’ll stay in NJ and then if you move off to FL or Wyoming or wherever and it’s a ton cheaper, great, extra $$$.

    4. I work for a pension saving company and we suggest 12%. The ‘personal finance internet’ I’m part of usually repeats the rule of thumb wherein you take the age you’ve started saving at and divide by two to reach the percentage you need to save.

       1. Oh interesting — I’ve heard many different % goals; have 1x your salary by x age; have 10x your salary by the end; etc. but I hadn’t heard divide your starting saving age by 2. I started at 26 post law school so that puts me at 13% which coincidentally where I started my savings as well with 0% match, not because I knew anything just because that’s what I needed to reach the IRS max. Now it’s more like 11% for me though because that puts me at the IRS max + I’m currently in an 8% match job.

    5. To be honest, this seems like very conventional advice to me, and not much of anything new. Also maybe I’m over-saving but 10% seems really low to me. I did only start working at 26, so maybe later than some. I liked the advice to have certain net worth targets by various ages, although I realize all of these are somewhat artificial and everyone just needs to find some way to save that works for them.

       1. I’ve always been slightly higher than 10% (11%; 13%; 19% w a match at one job etc.), but I think it’s helpful to have a “floor” with these things. But honestly I don’t think it matters which metric you follow — %; net worth absolute numbers; net worth as a multiple of salary etc. — as long as you follow SOME metric. I think that consistency is what you’re looking for because that’s what’s ensuring a solid amount going into retirement every month for much of your career.

16. I have a couple weddings this summer and need a dress I can wear to them all. I have a Nordy gift card–anyone want to help shop their yearly sale? 5’7 pear, size 10. I love jumpsuits (so good for dancing!) but they’re tricky on my shape. I typically wear structured sheath dresses bc volume/ruffles aren’t that flattering. Floral prints or color a plus!

    1. https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/vince-camuto-tie-front-wide-leg-jumpsuit-regular-petite/4610443?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=black

       https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-cap-sleeve-wide-leg-jumpsuit/4698914?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=black

       https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/dress-the-population-alicia-mixed-media-midi-dress/4686720?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=plum

       https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ali-jay-sleeveless-slim-leg-asymmetrical-jumpsuit/4662232?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=scarlet

       https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/dress-the-population-lyla-crepe-sheath-dress/4937797?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=pine

       1. I am a pear shape and a good deal shorter than you are. If you’re open to trying another jumpsuit, I adore the Vince Camuto Faux Wrap Jersey Jumpsuit from Nordstrom. It’s really flattering, and it’s become my go-to for going out — I’ve dressed it down, and also dressed it up for fancy events. I get a ton of compliments every time I wear it.

    2. I love this dress. Wore it to a wedding recently and got a ton of compliments.

       https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/chelsea28-print-faux-wrap-dress/5260461?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FShop%20by%20Occasion%2FWedding%20Guest%2FCocktail%20Wedding%20Guest&color=blue%20watercolor%20floral%20print

17. I’ve never had seasonal allergies before, but apparently all the rain in New England made everything grow like mad and now I feel like I’m dying. Any tips? I’m surviving on a cocktail of claritin/dayquil and allll the tea/water but my appetite is shot and my entire face (sinuses I guess?) hurts plus my skin is just SO itchy. I get through the day and then just want to collapse into bed at 8.

    1. You might need to try a nasal spray (nasacort, flonase) instead of Claratin – making that switch helped me a ton.

    2. Also, if Claritin isn’t helping, you may want to switch to another allergy pill. Responses to each antihistamine vary by person. For me when my allergies started getting worse, Claritin stopped working, but Zyrtec works very well. As Anon at 11:52 said, a corticosteroid nasal spray like nasacort or flonase will work wonders (my allergist says they are far more effective alone than a pill, and combined with an antihistamine pill, most people experience significant relief).
       And stop taking Dayquil everyday you’re going to kill your liver from the pain reliever it has in it.

    3. I do Flonase in the morning and Zyrtec at night (per doctor’s rec).

    4. I take my allergy medicine before bed, and it really helps with not waking up and feeling like I was hit by a truck.

    5. Ditto on the itchy skin!! I’ve never had seasonal allergies (knock on wood), either but suddenly this spring, I’ve been itching like crazy, and I know I’m staying away from anything I know for sure causes a reaction. But hives just pop up out of nowhere.

       Like Mrs. Jones suggested, I take Zyrtec at night, and that seems to help with the itchiness.

       1. +1 – OMG I am dying from itchy skin!!

          1. +2 and it’s always that one spot in the middle of my back I can’t reach

    6. Claritin and Zyrtec are different meds and you can layer them. I take Claritin in the morning, Zyrtec in the evening, and sometimes add a decongestant at night before bed. Both my family doctor and oncologist have ok’d this regimen for me for short term use. You might want to consult a pharmacist about suggestions for your particular problems and please don’t hesitate to go to an MD if over the counter meds aren’t helping enough.

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