Thursday’s Workwear Report: Ruffle-Neck Blouse

310 Comments

1. I’m angry that the newspapers covering the trial of the rapists of Gisele Pelicot are listing out their various sob stories – this one was abused by his father, that one struggled with alcoholism. Those excuses don’t justify rape and don’t matter in a court of law – take it up with a therapist on your own time. If experiences of abuse predicted future rapist behavior, then women would be raping at something like 10-fold the rate of men. I do not understand why we still entertain the idea that it’s appropriate for the accused and convicted to garner the sympathy of the court – and especially when only men are afforded that privilege. The rapists are certainly getting treated better on the stand than the female victims of rape in countless other cases.

   The focus should only be on Gisele Pelicot, an incredibly brave and powerful woman. May she live long.

   1. She is very brave. I’m glad she’s using her husband’s last name for the trial even though she has legally changed back to her own name otherwise. I know there’s many practical reasons for that, but it’s good that this horror will always be associated with his family name instead of her own.

      1. I’ve had that thought also – it’s a brilliant final FU to her husband.

   2. I didn’t notice that in The NY Times, but I could have missed it. This is so upsetting that I’m having trouble following it. I agree with your sentiments. Not all men, but dozens and dozens and dozens of seemingly normal men in any small town will do this and only express remorse when theyre caught and then somehow expect sympathy from others. Just terrible.

      1. I also primarily follow the NYT and didn’t notice justification of the men in the news coverage.

         The Daily podcast from a few days ago focused on the bravery of Gisèle Pelicot and how her visibility is flipping the shame narrative – she refuses to feel shame for being a victim, and the men should feel the shame. She’s is remarkable and so admirable.

         There’s another NYT article up today called “Gisèle Pelicot: What Courage Looks Like.”

         Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/19/style/gisele-pelicot-rape-trial-verdict-image.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ik4.H8mA.SaKivpAzIPxm&smid=url-share

         1. I appreciate that the shame changing sides is being referenced by high profile voices, like the political leaders of Spain and Germany commenting on the conviction.

   3. I agree.

      And I have this to add: My children’s elementary school apparently did not run routine background checks. Had they, they would have found that someone running the after-school X club was in the country illegally (so never should have been working, much less around children) and had prior police involvement (was charged with molesting a young girl, which was dropped when the parents did not want to subject their daughter to a trial; why he wasn’t deported then, I have no idea). At any rate, he re-offended there and at another school.

      For those girls, I wonder — how will people treat them? As victims? Or as people who had something traumatic happen to them, and traumatic beginnings are found more often among offenders, so maybe we don’t have them sleep over but just invite them to things where we can see them?

      For my girls and others at the school, I also wonder if there isn’t any shadow hanging over them also. They were made to go into active shooter protocol by him (heads down on desk, silence, eyes closed per his instructions, in a dark room, when he was victimizing their classmate; this was its own sort of terror). We know that for every victim who comes forward, maybe a dozen don’t. And they were so young when this happened. I don’t want people who were victims to be treated as future predators.

      1. My kids’ school is quite strict about this and I’m thankful – you need a background check to be on campus for pretty much anything even if you have no student contact (e.g., working in the copy room).

         But a few years ago, a friend of mine basically got run out of her PTA for insisting that the afterschool teachers get background checked because one of the long-time, much-beloved teachers refused and decided to quit. So my friend was blamed for “running off Coach T” when she should have gotten a freaking golden key to the school district.

   4. I was abused by an older sibling, who himself was never abused. Yet, he pulls the big sad eyes about how our parents allegedly treated him.

      I don’t hurt other people and I try every day to be a great and loving mom. (Who was up at 2:30 am last night comforting a toddler whose toys slipped out of his hands in his sleep? This woman.)

   5. For what it’s worth, I’m not seeing this angle in the CNN coverage, nor on the BBC, German or NZ coverage.

      1. This. I keep BBC (tv) on in the background during the day and they just did a big story on the verdicts. No mention of this thankfully!

      2. That’s good – wish the Guardian would ax it.

   6. I don’t think you understand the role or purpose of journalism. “Just don’t do deep reporting on criminals” is a wild take.

      1. Also, conflating “they’re doing reporting on criminals” with “they must be doing so solely to drive sympathy for those criminals” also badly misunderstands journalism.

         If there’s a specific article you think is actually excusing the criminality of the criminals, post it. Don’t vaguebook.

      2. Here’s the kind of reporting I want to see – “nearly all of the convicted attempted to justify their actions with reports of difficult childhoods.” You seem to think that their experiences are newsworthy; I disagree and think they are completely irrelevant.

         1. That is literally just a statement of what their defenses were. It’s not supporting those defenses in any way.

            You think journalists covering a case should not even mention the arguments of one side…? Wild. Truly wild.

            1. I think the OP has a point. It’s similar to the difference between just reporting what was said (Trump said that tariffs saved steel production jobs) vs reporting with fact checking (Trump incorrectly claimed that tariffs saved steel production jobs).

            2. The latter example is not fact checking, because the statement in question is a conclusion / opinion, not a fact. Presumably, reasonable experts could disagree, and if literally no expert disagrees, that is a fact that should be reported.

               The correct journalistic approach would be something like “Trump said that tariffs saved steel production jobs. [Expert], [expert’s credentials], disagreed, citing a recent study by [source] that concluded [specific details].” Your example is an insult to the intelligence of the reader, who can decide who to trust as well as the journalist can, and makes it easier for the media to manipulate narratives, not harder for Trump to do so.

               Taking your analogy, what OP is saying is that journalists should not even report what Trump is saying because he is a Bad Man. That’s a bad take. A really bad take.

            3. wow, pretty strong reaction to me using a shorthand here. Of course people should provide evidence for factual claims. But this thread wasn’t about politics so I apologize for almost derailing it.

      3. Lately the role and purpose of journalism seems to be garner sympathy for malefactors, reinforce power structures, normalize preventable harm, cast doubt on the idea that anything better is possible, and steer clear of any negative reporting that might politically harm popular candidates while sticking with negative reporting that they find flattering. Unsubscribe and quit giving them page views while you’re at it.

         1. The anti-intellectualism on display in these comments is truly concerning. I can’t seriously believe there are people who think this shallowly.

            1. Actually it’s the media who are anti-intellectual lately.

            2. Oh, are they the ones making comments here today?

            3. The same people who believe that because a fictional character in a novel is vile, means the author holds the same vile views.

            4. Do you find that journalists at major media outlets report accurately or fairly on any matter in which you have relevant expertise?

            5. Yes, I do. Do they miss nuances? Absolutely. Do they get things wrong? Absolutely. Do they appear to make a good faith effort not to do those two things? Absolutely.

               Quality does vary by outlet and reporter, but I can count on one hand the number of times where I thought there was an intentional sleight of hand going on.

               And under no circumstances have I ever found them to do the parade of horribles the person I was responding to, which is, like, a Tumblr-level thought.

      4. Media is privately funded in the US it’s purpose is to reinforce power structures of billionaires and men. Just see how the Luigi situation is being handled.

         1. Yes, the people who bought all these media companies weren’t just looking for more passive income. They absolutely do have an interest in what gets reported and how.

         2. Yes, state-funded media is well known to suffer from no biases and perpetuate no misinformation.

            1. CBC, BBC, etc are all globally recognized as being incredibly reliable resources.

            2. As are PBS and NPR here. I read the comment I replied to as advocating for *solely* state-controlled media and against any private media. Both Canada and the UK also have robust private media alongside their state-funded media, and that seems to be a healthy dynamic here and there.

            3. PBS and NPR don’t have nearly the same market share/readership or influence that BBC and CBC have.

            4. Okay…and? They are not small potatoes here. Are you arguing that we should abolish private media to artificially pump up their numbers or…what, exactly?

   7. I don’t think anyone thinks their stories “excuse” their crimes. There are few legal excuses to crime, one being not guilty by reason of insanity. It is reasonable to want to learn about this social histories of violent offenders whether to help understand and prevent crime in the future and to fashion proportionate sentences.

      1. We already don’t act on what we already know.

         1. Well, that is true. If we wanted to prevent violent crime, we would be helping young families and funding education, the arts, and sports. We would have community centers that were safe and fun for preteens. But the point still stands: explaining the background is not an attempt to justify or excuse behavior.

2. Just got the annual rant from my husband about how much money I have spent on Christmas. He’s not wrong; I have spent a ton of money on Christmas. Presents for our daughters, yes. Decorations, some. Catered fancy food to make hosting easier, you better believe it.

   As I have told him every year for literally decades, you don’t get to comment on Christmas spending when you take zero responsibility for making it happen.

   1. No Christmas gifts for him.

   2. [tongue only slightly in cheek] Would this fly at work? He can’t just come rocking up with a complaint; he has to come with a budget plan and solutions. He wouldn’t delegate it all to a same-level colleague, so why is he leaving it all to you?

      1. This absolutely fixed the problem in my house. My husband groused about how ‘stressed’ I was around Thanksgiving and how it was stressing him out. After the holiday I sat down and said something to the effect of ‘You’re right – I am stressed around the holiday. I appreciate you noticing it and bringing it up so that we can both address it together to ensure we’re enjoying the holiday and not overly stressed. Here is the list of things that need to get done – let’s review it, make sure it’s complete, and divvy it up for next year evenly so we both have more support.’
         Granted, this only works with a halfway decent partner but that’s valuable info to have as well. Bonus points – my husband tried to factor in his ‘workout time’ which gave me a great opening to add that onto the list under self care so we both have equal time to recharge! – I do a LOT less solo labor, we pay for more help (childcare/cleaning/catering) and I happily ignore any spousal grumbling and/or respond with “I’m happy to look at how to reallocate the list after the holiday!”

         1. Does your husband have a brother who is single

            And also – you sound like a very effective individual communicator and a great team. Hashtag goals

            1. My husband has two sisters, two working parents, and lived on his own for close to 10 years before we moved in together which I generally find to be a good indicator of men who are overall more self reliant. We fell into a lot of gendered care taking roles when the kids were young that were making me unhappy and to his credit he was willing to work on it/split things up more evenly. It also helps that we both work full time so it wasn’t like it was my ‘job’ to be the stay at home spouse who managed all the home stuff.

   3. Amen! this sounds like he’s annoyed at the more than you have overspent in a way that causes financial problems. Feel free to roll your eyes and move on. Once my husband actually got more involved, the money seemed much more reasonable to him. For example: I also splashed out for catering but when he saw the prices he commented that feeding 20 people salmon and filet mignon plus a vegan option is also super pricey when you cook it yourself. I’d bet next year’s Christmas budget that if he took over he’d spend just as much!

      1. Annoyed at the *money

      2. I did Thanksgiving by myself this year. The math on cooking for myself didn’t make any sense: ingredients for a nice vegetarian meal would have been about $30, and have taken several hours to make. Whole Foods had a lovely vegan meal for 2 for $39.99, and all I had to clean up were the pans used in the oven. My time is worth more than $2.50 an hour.

         1. Heck yes your time is!!! I normally like to cook and like to think I can cook better than a caterer BUT not for 20 people and NOT after the glass or two of champagne that I’d darn sure like to drink on Christmas Eve.

            1. I’m the one you responded to. Also love to cook! This year has been rough – an inordinate amount of stress and zero down time. It was heaven to relax: nice breakfast, workout and PT exercises, reading, watch a movie, pop dinner into the oven, eat, minimal clean-up.

            2. I just LOVE that for you! Wishing yiu all the best in the holidays and the new year!

   4. Is this a “you two aren’t on the same page about Christmas” problem, or a “you aren’t on the same page about budget overall” problem? it seems unlikely that Christmas budget specifically is the only disagreement

      1. OP here. We definitely have different ideas on spending. He is frugal and I am not. I spend too much for his comfort but not so much that our lives are actually impacted. He complains; I keep living my life. We have good credit. Our retirement accounts are well funded and our kids are going to graduate without debt. If I hadn’t married him, I’d probably still be renting and have little savings but allll the designer bags and shoes. If he hadn’t married me, he’d be wearing decades-old suits and eating store-brand frozen pizza every night. It’s a balance.

         1. Have you guys every agreed on a budget for discretionary spending, like Christmas? Like, looked at actual numbers and come to a decision? I’m the frugal one, and I needed a budget decision to give me “permission” to go ahead and spend the money, because I knew everything else was also getting covered and was OK.

            1. Not OP but this is me. I’m the frugal one in my relationship and as long as I know the expected outlay and can see that it fits into our budget, that puts my mind at ease to just enjoy the results.

               If my partner spent big money without a plan or communication ahead of time, that would be incredibly stressful for me.

            2. I’m not sure if this is what you meant, but I don’t think one partner should have to use “their” discretionary spending for things that benefit the whole family, like catering instead of cooking everything yourself. If they had a “joint” discretionary spending budget then he would just push back on the dollar amount, so that doesn’t really resolve their argument.

               Also, groceries and booze are so much more expensive this year, I’d have a hard time reliably budgeting. Holiday hosting is wayy different than my normal grocery/liquor store haul, so I really have no frame of reference. For example, I have no clue how much it’ll cost me to put together a cheese board this year. Usually it’s about $150 for a nice spread for ~15 people. Will that be $200 this year or more like $300? No clue at all. I’m mentally expecting everything to be double and I hope I’ll be pleasantly surprised. But if I told DH I’m planning to spend $300 on cheese and crackers (and other stuff obviously but that’s how he’d hear it) he’d lose his mind.

            3. I’m pretty sure this wasn’t about one partner’s discretionary allotment. This is about having a planning conversation so that both partners know what to expect. It can be helpful for the more anxious frugal party to know ‘we are planning to do x, and we are planning to spend y’. That gives us a chance to digest it, ask questions or do research (usually setting us straight that our mental ‘what it should cost’ is out of date), and put the spending in perspective with our overall financial picture (reminding ourselves that we can afford this splurge and it is worth it). It may sound silly if you don’t think like it, but it makes a difference for the stress level, and helps me not be a Grinch about this.

         2. Hi! I totally relate to your “if I hadn’t…” comment. Same. At some point I had to push back on his frugality and explain that giving and hosting with a generous spirit are important to me. It’s not exactly the ghost of Christmas past but we do hire babysitters to do holiday shopping and go out to eat a few times a season and it helps him to understand what things actually cost.

         3. Younger than you, but my husband and I have the exact same dynamic. I’m the frugal one and he’s the spender. I agree that is generally a good thing that we can balance each other out, but it still sometimes causes friction.

         4. “He complains; I keep living my life” is me and my husband too, so I feel you. I consider myself quite frugal and certainly wouldn’t be in any kind of debt without my husband, I just don’t think we should save every possible cent like he does. I just tune out his complaints.

            1. This is me and my husband about everyday expenses, but I can’t just go and buy the new car or sofa or house that we need without getting him on board. I have nice clothes and a fancy blender, but otherwise we live like broke grad students. It ends up costing us more money in the long run when we spend thousands of dollars to keep an ancient unreliable car on the road, or we wait too long to move or renovate our house and interest rates rise.

            2. Oh for sure I would not buy a house (!) or car without talking to him. I would give him a head’s up about a sofa but it might be presented as more of an “FYI I’m ordering a new sofa” rather than a discussion. But honestly to buy furniture, we’d have to cut back on vacations, which is my thing not his, so it wouldn’t really be a hardship to him. In fact, he’d probably be thrilled if I told him we were traveling less this year so we could afford new furniture.

   5. Everyone wants to criticize; no one wants to help.

      If you outsourced, you’d lose all your free labor, but next year, after Labor Day, offer to let him do it his way in 2025.

      1. I’ve already booked a trip for Thanksgiving for my immediate family next year. I have hosted for 17 years in a row now, my SILs and parents have plenty of notice to make alternate plans and I bet there will be a LOT less nitpicking after a year of them having to handle the planning/hosting/cooking on their own.

   6. Give him an entertaining cookbook for Christmas and a big manly apron.

      1. Love this!

   7. Preach

   8. Is this a money problem (like money is tight overall or priorities are misaligned, and this is not the first of such discussions) or a “I’m just waking up to the fact christmas costs a lot of money, i’ve taken no responsibility to do any of the things myself and I just want to be angry about something” man baby non-problem problem? Because the former deserves a true sit down discussion and not a flippant reaction. The latter? He can go eff off.

   9. In the same boat. My husband is late 30’s but thinks things still cost what they did in the 90’s.

      1. Mine thinks that everything should still cost what it did when he graduated college in 1992.

         1. This is maddening, but another part of me feels like standards were also lower in the past. As I remember things, the food was simpler and cheaper and easier, the decorations were simpler and cheaper (though probably harder in the sense of more DIY). I guess it’s inflation and maybe some lifestyle creep too.

      2. I recently looked up how much movie tickets cost and realized that I’ve become my mother, who once gave me a quarter to go to the movies thinking that would cover the ticket, a coke, and a popcorn (which was more like $15 at the time…).

   10. You guys fight about this every year and haven’t figured out a way to agree in advance on a budget and a plan?

   11. Sometimes I’m just so thankful to be single. I can’t imagine being an adult getting ranted at by another adult for my Christmas spending that fits into my finances just fine.

       1. Honestly not all marriages are like this. One thing to prioritize is being on the same page financially. I cannot imagine having this kind of fight with my husband.

          1. Sometimes you are on the same page when you decide to get married, and then over the years or decades your husband becomes a different person.

             1. This. Not who you’re responding to but my dad says the trick to marriage letting your relationship evolve as you both change. I’m convinced that sometimes one or both of you changes in a way that makes the relationship miserable and it’s not a matter choosing the wrong person initially.

          2. There is something to be said for opposites attract. We offset each other’s worse qualities, i.e. cheapskate v. spendthrift. And it was a rant, not a fight.

       2. I’m married and I also can’t imagine it. And I certainly can’t imagine having it twice!

       3. If you choose to marry, I highly recommend working together to establish norms early on that work for you even if they aren’t traditional. I’m married 18 years. My husband and I have entirely separate finances. He owns our house and pays utilities and vacations. I’ve carried the health insurance for most of our marriage. We shop for food separately (we like different foods) and he usually covers the cost of eating out. I cover all costs associated with our dog. We each bought and maintain our own cars. We have a prenup and I’m in his will and vice versa. We don’t have kids so probably makes it easier that way. I have never asked his permission for a single purchase and neither has he sought mine. We both are high earners and are pretty similar on level of frugalness. I know this wouldn’t work for many people–but I feel just as financially independant as I did when I was single. I almost never talk about this IRL with my friends or family because I know many folks would look down on us for not sharing a checkbook. But truly, we are happy.

          1. I feel like this arrangement only works when you have a lot of money and no kids. But in those situations, couples normally don’t fight about money anyways

          2. Well you have a nice situation.

          3. We do this too, but I fully acknowledge it probably only works because we’re high earners with no kids.

       4. Marriage has its drawbacks for sure. My husband has been unemployed for years but occasionally grouses about my spending (he would never “rant” at me). I don’t want to so much as see a raised eyebrow as long as you’re wasting an entire SALARY per year by sitting around doing (next to) nothing. If I come home with a new car then you can grouse at me, though even then I’m unlikely to buy a car that equals one year’s salary.

          1. Ugh, I’m so sorry….

   12. Lol—does he want catered hosting? Or hosting at all? I’d be annoyed at that expense too.

       1. Do you just pass on hosting and make others do it for every holiday? What is your solution here?

       2. Lol— if he doesn’t want catered hosting then he can cook everything himself.

          If he doesn’t want to host period then he can search for venues that can host the event.

       3. I am not OP but I think your response is inappropriate. Of course he doesn’t want the expense of catering, but it also sounds like he’s not going to get in the kitchen and plan and shop and cook the meal himself. So when you say you’d be annoyed at the expense, are you really saying you’d be annoyed at someone no longer being willing to do 100% of the job you should be doing 50% of yourself?

3. Two days left until my holiday break and I have so much to do, but I am done done done mentally and emotionally. Just over it all. Any tips for making it through?

   1. I have 8 hours left until I’m off for 17 days. I am struggling

      1. Wow, so envious of 17 days off!!

         1. It’s only 8 work days for me. I work 4 10s, so I’m already off every Friday. Add in the two holidays, and I just needed to to take the 23, 24, 26, 27, 30, 31, 2, and 3rd off.

            I had 5 days of use or lose, so just 3 days coming out of my real bank.

            1. I also only have use or lose because I had to cancel one vacation and one long weekend trip for work this year…

      2. I’m also off for 2 weeks but I have 3 kids under 5 so I’m half looking forward to it half dreading it :/

         1. Yea I’m off until Jan 6

   2. I’m doing all the administrivia I can at work and watching learning programs while responding to the easiest emails I can. That’s about all I can manage right now after a rough year.

   3. Bare minimum! You’ll get there, and then make sure to actually rest a bit.

   4. I called it. I worked at the weekend, I am just trying to get to the sunshine with my sanity intact (26 more hours).

   5. I’m in higher ed and off for two weeks after tomorrow. Basically no work is getting done today or tomorrow. I could work and push things out, but they’d have to be reviewed by other people who wouldn’t get back to me until after the break has begun, so I don’t really see the point.

      1. I’m also in higher ed and co-sign this.

   6. Make a list. Check it twice. Then set it on fire when you finish.

4. Thinking ahead to 2025 (or the big life summit my husband and I are planning for after Christmas), I need two technical solutions to address some pain points.

   An app in which I can share a list of routine household items, and when they get ticked off, they roll forward to the next quarter, 6 months, year, etc. I use Notion for work / planning but I want to step back from my role as “keeper of all knowledge and assigner of all to dos” and think my husband needs something more automated/will give him phone notifications.

   An grocery store app which allows you to add items via Alexa smart speaker. Todoist used to let you add items via Alexa but it’s discontinued this functionality.

   1. gently… maybe your husband could be in charge of finding a solution here. You’re still doing the work! You’re finding the tool, populating it, setting up frequencies and reminders… you’re only outsourcing the “remind husband at relevant time” part of it.

      1. +1 he needs to set up his own system, like a big boy.

   2. We just an Alexa shopping list (we can access it via Alexa app on our mobiles when in the store).

   3. Following with interest – a system like this would be helpful for my household also. And to the other commenters – unfortunately some of us have husbands who just don’t do any of the planning. I have just resigned to having to do all the delegation. It’s not his strength and I gave up swimming up stream on the issue.

      1. My husband does loads more of the physical labour than I do. He’s the brawn, I’m the brains, so I feel like I can give him this one :) Life is very full on at the moment, and we’re realising we’re both struggling to keep up with routines.

      2. Yup, if I have to be CEO of the household that’s fine as long as he accepts that means he’s doing the actual work of implementing the plan. I will not both be CEO and the worker bee.

         It works for us and frankly plays to both our strengths. I am a planner by nature, he is not. I also struggle with putting my head down and powering through tasks I don’t want to do, he does not. He finishes tasks in a fraction of the time it’d take me, and with none of the emotional turmoil of remembering the thing, beating myself up about not doing the thing, forgetting the thing, half doing the thing then getting distracted, and so on.

   4. Would Tody work for routine household items?

      1. Agree I think Tody sounds like it would be the right app for the household items

   5. I use the reminders app on my phone for monthly/quarterly/yearly tasks. Set them to recur with no end date.

   6. For tasks, we just have a shared google calendar with recurring items scheduled with no end dates.

   7. i tried the app Sweepy for household stuff and wasn’t a fan of it, it was just a ton of notifications

      Re grocery store app — what I have started doing is adding items we’re out of to the Amazon cart via Alexa. Then later when I’m in the Amazon cart and have a minute I remove them from the Amazon cart and add it to our local grocery store app/cart. I’m never usually confused because we’re not trying to buy mayo from Amazon most times.

   8. We use the Cozi app and it’s great.

5. Do people we know really use as much psychedelics as the New York Times reports? I can’t imagine, but my state only recently allowed alcohol sales before noon on Sunday, and it varies by county. At this point though I am getting 3 features a week from NYT about hallucinogenics and I wonder who is pushing this “reporting” and what the agenda is — I remember the articles about pain being mismanaged and aren’t the new non-addictive opiates great

   1. Microdosing is huge right now. I haven’t seen any reporting on it because I’m boycotting news outlets that I feel contributed to the US election results, but it comes up socially, and social media spaces are overwhelmed by microdosing spammers if moderators aren’t on top of it every single day. So I don’t think NYT is just making it up.

      1. I hate to break this to you, but social media is far worse in what it does to this country’s political environment than anything mainstream.

         1. I’m aware that social media spaces are overwhelmed by other kinds of nonsense if not heavily moderated. Moderation does work though!

            1. So why not moderation with respect to non-social media news sources?

            2. By moderation I mean the work of moderators. I guess the equivalent would be to exclude obvious propagandists and bad faith actors from publishing.

   2. I don’t know the answer to your question but legalizing psychedelics (with some kind of guardrails I don’t recall) was on the ballot in MA this November and it was shot down (57% against). There were several very wealthy individuals profiled in various publications around here in support of the ballot initiative (who also helped to bankroll it), describing their own uses in various, often therapeutic settings. It just felt like a really high brow campaign and a lot of people I know were put off by it regardless of personal feelings about their use separate and apart from the campaign. Full page spreads of airbrushed beautiful people in their designer clothing in their gajillion dollar townhouses and mansions crying about how they need access to the substance. It was really weird.

      1. Yeah, this. Like every celebrity who takes a trip to Central America and has a shaman… this is not impressive and has stopped even being weird. It’s now normal-slightly extreme, like going to Iceland.

         I don’t even know if poor damaged people who aren’t attractive need access to the drug / experience, and I’m not sure it would help them gain clout or succeed.

   3. I’m not doing any of these things. I’m 42 and I’ve cut down on drinking but I’m really NOT looking for new mind altering things. I hope that doesn’t sound judgmental but I’m not seeing the point of inviting new drugs into my life. The whole world is constantly telling me that a glass of wine is the worst thing in the world but it’s fine to experiment with drugs? I just don’t see the upside.

      1. I’m the same age and agree about alcohol and don’t know anyone microdosing (or at least telling me that they are), but THC gummies are pretty big with my cohort.

         1. Yes! Same. I’m fine to drink less but why does everyone insist I replace wine with a candied pot? Again, fine for them but hard no for me.

            1. Weed isn’t a psychedelic.

            2. No one said it was. But the point stands that we can cut down on booze without switching to an unfamiliar drug. It bugs me in that everyone is pushing a switch in my vice of choice even if they think I shouldn’t drink.

            3. the reason people tell you to do gummies instead is because they are superior when they work well. smooth, long-lasting relaxation that tapers off before bed, doesn’t interrupt sleep, and doesn’t leave you hung over the next day. the hard part is the timing, they often take 45-90 minutes to work, and it’s often a mystery whether they last 90 minutes or 6 hours so it’s one of those things best to do at home.

            4. Yeah I just…hate how weed feels. Also wine is interesting, enhances your food and gives you something to talk about. It’s something I enjoy socially, not something I do at home to relax. Again I’m fine to cut back, and maybe eliminate wine but I’d be happy to stay away from weed forever. I hate the feeling of being high. The idea of having to experiment with how long you’ll be high for sounds like too much work for a middle aged lady. Maybe in another life I would have developed a taste for pot and candy pot instead of alcohol but it’s just not a fun thing to experiment with in mid life. Seems like it works for you and that’s awesome but really, i can quit or cut down on alcohol without replacing it and I’d gently push back that weed is superior for my purposes while acknowledging it’s superior for yours.

   4. I need more coffee this morning, I thought your first sentence was asking if people really use “psychics” as much as the NYT reports, and I was totally confused about why alcohol sales had anything to do with tarot readings, haha.

   5. I haven’t been seeing those NYTimes articles, but I think it varies A LOT by social group. Of my friends, none use drugs and very few even drink more than 2-3 times a year. But of my ex’s friends, they all would drink weekly, use pot weekly, and I would not be surprised to learn they use other drugs too. Both groups have white collar jobs and very similar demographics, so not sure why there is such a big difference

   6. I think this is another case of the media trying to normalize something that’s not actually typical within most segments of society, so eventually everyone really is doing it. Just like p0t and p0rn. It’s not usual behavior for adults now but it will be in 5-10 years, to society’s detriment.

      1. But who will benefit here? Is there a psychedelic industrial complex? or as I might think from these comments, is this just a small group of apparently really influential people on the edge of society?

         I guess I’ll wait 5-10 years

         1. Widespread consumption of substances and p0rn help the powerful keep the masses, especially women, in their place.

            1. To elaborate: in the case of p0rn, it has distorted both men’s and women’s expectations of normal relationships, allowing young men to demand things of young women they never could have gotten away with in the past, and making young women think they need to agree or they are somehow deficient.

         2. There is a psychedelic industrial complex. Many of the big VC-backed MJ companies think this is their next big market.

         3. Yes, there is very likely a psychedelic industrial complex, and it has nothing to do with consciousness expansion and the swinging 60s. Just look at how big companies are taking over the pot industry — a lot of that groundwork was done prior to legalization (and pushing for specific regulations in the legalization period). I bet Big Pharma is looking forward to adding psychdelic monopolies to their toolbox.

         4. “Is there a psychedelic industrial complex?”

            A budding one, yes. Colorado, for example, has taken steps to regulate psychedelic use in some contexts. There’s also a big push to get psychedelics approved/used in mental health care. I’m no expert and don’t use them myself, but I have friends who do and some who are very supportive/involved in efforts to facilitate increased use of psychedelics in mental health care settings or just “responsible” personal use. (I’m putting that in quotes just to acknowledge that I know people’s attitudes on this will vary and it’s really not the point of my comment.) IMO, most people are not using psychedelics and don’t plan to, especially not regularly versus random partying. But there’s a very vocal minority. I also think the topic piques people’s curiosity, and hope. It is interesting to think that something that is typically stigmatized or associated with dirty old hippies/excesses of your own youth is gaining mainstream acceptance. The concept of delving into one’s own mind in this way is intriguing. It’s exciting to think of possible breakthrough treatments for people suffering from PSTD/depression. It also flips the narrative on this type of drug use, and media loves stories that purportedly flip the narrative. Microdosing is controlled, purposeful, thoughtful, done to promote some “health benefit” or “acceptable” purpose, done by people who are put together, successful, who make good choices — as opposed to how lots of people typically view psychedelic use and people who use them, which is much more negative.

   7. I haven’t seen the news coverage, but microdosing is pretty common in my friend group (late 30s/early 40s) especially because there are mushroom blends that are legal to buy in our local headshops. I don’t drink and am really enjoying the occasional upper to either relax with or use at parties. I also have some friends who have been prescribed ketamine to treat various psychiatric issues and have seen excellent results and others who have talked about mushrooms to treat PTSD, so I’m all for expanded research into how these drugs could be used safely.

   8. It’s normal in my circles. (Tech and finance)

      1. Same. My social circle is mostly in tech. More West Coast than East, in my experience.

         I also have two therapist friends who are getting/have gotten their credentials in psychedelic therapy. Anecdotally, they’ve seen amazing results.

         That said, to OP’s point, this obviously doesn’t represent most of the US.

         1. Thanks. This is what I was wondering, thanks. I guess this is actually happening in some influential (and elite, privileged, no shame but seems accurate) circles. I had no idea, which was why I asked, thanks

      2. It is not normal in all of mt social circles, but is normalized and common in my cycling social circles (no roadies, no triathletes, all gravel/mtbers). It’s also very common with the veterans in my social circles.

      3. The problem is that tech and finance are not normal, but the media and social media make everyone think they should live like tech and finance bros.

   9. I am a California native so maybe that colors my perspective. Most people I know have tried shrooms but not acid. (I haven’t tried either.)

      I know a couple of the regular shroom imbibers but mostly they’re just a once in a great while thing for the people I know.

      Though one of my friends’ husband quit his corporate job and became a psychedelics guide/sherpa so there’s that. It’s for the rich people mentioned above who want to give it a try with someone safe. I think they usually go camping.

      1. Haha. The only thing that could make these drugs less appealing to me is to throw in camping. Good god. I will be at a fancy hotel with a very ill advised and extremely dangerous glass of Bordeaux while the enlightened folks camp and trip if anyone needs me.

         1. You might call it glamping, the kind of camping my friends’ husband takes his techbros on so they can trip “safely.” My understanding is that the digs are pretty nice. Big Sur area, usually.

            1. I’m the poster above and will admit that Big Sur is lovely. I think a Big Sur sunset could be considered a religious experience stone cold sober. Still book me a room at the ventana I’ll pass on the shrooms.

         2. It’s the kind of thing that makes me sympathize more with ideas like cultural appropriation. I have no issue with legalizing traditional religious practices of indigenous peoples historically oppressed by Europeans, but Europeans monetizing it all amongst one another in a recreational vein feels kind of cringe.

         3. Hahahahaha, this comment made me laugh out loud.

   10. I feel like it was a NYT article that made me decide i WOULD do psychedelics at some point but only in a shaman situation where someone is guiding your experience with a goal of spiritual or psychic enlightenment.

       legalizing them like weed wouldn’t behoove that — i think they should still be a controlled substance but open enough that they can study it and specific people can dispense it.

   11. I started drinking and drugging as a teenager and used cocaine, pills, marijuana, esctasy, LSD, and mushrooms. I have now been sober nearly 30 years. Despite the 9th step promises, I regret a lot of my alcohol and drug use and abuse but have never regretted tripping on LSD a few times. It was an amazing experience that did help me view the world and spirituality in a different way. I am not doing it again and don’t recommend that teens and young adults try it. It can have devastating consequences if there is mental illness present. But if a good friend who didn’t have addiction issues or a family history of mental illness wanted to see what the fuss was about, I’d tell her to go for it!

       1. My husband feels the same way about acid. He hasn’t done it for more than 20 years now but feels it changed him for the better. Now he rarely drinks and occasionally uses weed. (We are in a legal recreational state)

6. Need last minute gift ideas for 2x 2.5 year olds (boys) and 7 y/o girl! I don’t know them well. Preferably under $10 or $15 and need to be able to get at Target or similar.

   1. Matchbox cars, small DUPLO set, Schleich animal figurines, Fubbles non-spill bubbles, dot markers, Stabile woody crayons. For an older child small LEGO set, National Geographic science kit, mini pottery studio, bracelet making kit, Squishmallows or some nice art supplies.

      1. Agree on all of these, plus Water Wow/Sticker Wow type art stuff is great for the 2-3 yo set.

   2. I would use the Wirecutter gift guides that break down ideas by age, then get something similar. Here’s the one for 3 year olds:
      https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/gifts/best-toys-gifts-for-3-year-olds/
      and for 7 year olds:
      https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/gifts/best-toys-gifts-for-7-year-olds/

   3. For the 2.5 year olds, Melissa and Doug Water Wow books are great. Most of the Melissa and Doug universe is pretty great actually.

   4. I got my 2.5 year old nephew the Yoto audio player that was recommended by Wirecutter and some Eric Carle/Bluey story cards . No idea if he’ll actually have the patience to sit and listen but I thought it was a cute idea (and his 4 year old sister might like it too)!

      1. Oops, I missed the $10-15 comment but it looks like there is a mini version that is in the $20 range.

         1. Unfortunately, mini costs 70 USD. 20 USD is for a protective sleeve. If somebody else is thinking about it though, I highly recommend it. It’s a great device that appeals to kids of all ages.

      2. This is an amazing, although pricey gift. I highly recommend blank Yoto cards. You can link them to almost any audio file, from free Yoto content, through children radio stations in multiple languages, all the way to creating your own recordings. Our family members record themselves reading a short story or just talking to my child (what do they like about him, what was their favorite food growing up, etc.) and I put it on a blank Yoto card and make it a part of his birthday gift.

   5. For the 7 year old just get some kind of craft kit. Plenty that are under $15

   6. Scribble scrubbies, even for the 7 year old. My 2 year old loves them and her 8 year old cousin had them on her Christmas list still.

   7. Dollar tree is your friend. Forget target for this type of stuff.

      Art kits, coloring books, stickers, clothes pegs, random toys etc are all $1.25. Regardless of where you buy it, this stuff all ends up in the trash.

   8. I have a 2.5 year old and we are spending time with 6/7 year old cousins this weekend and I went for crafts (a sunglass decorating kit + a waterwow coloring book) that the kids could do together at the family party.

   9. LED scribble boards for all ages (pack of 4 for $12 on Amazon).

      Duplos for the 2 yo (those are probably over $20).

      The rubber band bracelet weaving kits for the 7 yo (prob $10-15 on Amazon).

   10. There are five dollar wooden stacking cars in the cheap front area of my Target – great for 2.5 year olds. Agree with the craft kit comment for the 7. Could also get them each the white stuffed Christmas bear for $10. As a parent of kids these age I enjoy the seasonal stuffies that they play with for a month and then I can put away with holiday decorations. When we pull them out again next year, they’re fun and fresh new toys.

   11. I have a 7 year old girl. I would say the safest bet is an arts & craft kits and Target has a ton of options in the $10-15 range. My girl does not really like LEGOs anymore and many of her friends aren’t so much into dolls, but they all love the arts & craft kits.

   12. If the parents have enough space for it and you think they’d be down with it I recommend the Mondo Llama Santa’s Workshop from Target and a 64 count of crayons as a gift for all 3 (~$30). It’s a giant cardboard playhouse that they can color and play in. It’s keeping my 6yo pretty busy. It’s big but will be promptly recycle when school starts again. Takes 1 adult about 10-15 minutes to assemble.
       https://www.target.com/p/christmas-craft-color-your-own-santa-39-s-workshop-fort-mondo-llama-8482/-/A-90564337#lnk=sametab

       1. This is know-your-kid. My 6 year old would get really attached to this and be hysterical when we tried to recycle it, so I would really not like receiving something like this as a gift.

7. A question for the SINKs who own houses:

   How much did you put down? How long did it take you to save for the down payment? Where did you keep the money while you were saving? Anything you did to focus on saving for a down payment?

   1. This won’t apply to everyone, and this happened 25 years ago when home sale prices were more affordable, but I had been in a high-paying law job for several years and despaired at saving enough for a 20 percent down payment. Then a more financially sophisticated colleague mentioned that I could qualify, based on income/profession for a “80-15-5” mortgage situation, which is to get a first mortgage to cover 80 percent of the purchase price, and a second mortgage to cover 15 percent of the purchase price, and only need to put down 5 percent. So that’s what I did. I had to pay private mortgage insurance until I had paid down/off the second mortgage.

   2. I’m a SINK and have purchased three homes (not all at once!).

      I always put as little down as possible because the PMI is really low and I would rather pay that than totally deplete my savings. My first down payment came from a bonus, so no time really to save for that one. My second down payment accumulated over the 10 years I owned the first house but it was part of my general HYSA savings. I didn’t ear mark anything and wasn’t specifically saving for a DP. I was saving to save. My third DP came out of that same HYSA account that I fill with bonuses generally. I owned my second house for five years but the DP amount could have been paid with ease out of any bonus in those 5 years.

      Now typing this out, I realize this is not going to be helpful to you most likely bc my bonuses really pay for things that are over $5k for me.

      I do save $2k in another savings account too but that’s for more day-to-day “emergencies.”

      1. *$2k a month

   3. I put down slightly over 20%, with about half of it coming from my parents. This was so that I could have a mortgage of $X, which was the amount I was comfortable with in terms of monthly payment. Had the house been cheaper, my parents would have contributed less.

      My contribution was around $75k and it honestly took probably 15 years to get there. That said, the same pot of money that eventually became my down payment also paid for graduate school (~$16k after work reimbursement and tax breaks) in my 20s and a new car (put down about $10k to have a lower monthly payment) in my early 30s. My salary was never over $90k during this time and spent the majority of the time below $70k in a VHCOL city. It’s hard to save more than $500/month towards a house down payment when your rent is almost a whole paycheck every month.

      A bit over half the money was invested in mutual funds (I know not the safest place but given the 15 year time horizon, it made sense and certainly earned a lot more than HYSA did) with the rest in HYSA.

      1. I’m in the “rent is a whole paycheck” phase too and it sucks. I have no idea how people save. I will never be able to buy a house.

         1. My apartment is slowly turning into a slum, but it was cheap 5 years ago when I moved in, and they’ve only raised rent $100 in those 5 years, so here I stay while trying to save up for a down payment while housing prices far outprice what I’m saving.

   4. I bought a home at age 30 (this was 5-10 years ago, so lower interest rates) with 20% down, using funds I’d saved from living very cheaply after graduating at age 24. I did nothing special with the savings, some was in investments, some was in checking. I also was on Income Based Repayment terms on my loans for this period, so that helped a lot to create a cushion to save. It was also a LCOL town. IIRC purchase price was about $150k, so I had a down payment of about $30k, which, saved over six years was about $5k /year.

   5. I maxed out my 401k contributions and then took a loan from that for a 10% down payment and paid PMI until my house gained in equity enough that I could refinance & have a 80% loan to value conforming loan with no PMI. Took a few years.

   6. I bought a house 7 years after my divorce. I put 20%, lived below my means and saved as much as I could. It helped that I had a decent job and lived in a low cost of living area. I got a new job in a HCOL area near my family and was able to buy a new build house before the interest rates and prices soared. I kept my savings in a money market account.

   7. I put 5% down on a $150k condo (CAD). I’ve been making extra principal payments yearly, to try and get the mortgage principal down. I didn’t put a lot into a down payment at first, because I got a low interest rate, and because I didn’t want to totally wipe out my emergency fund. The condo is in a low cost of living area, so that helps a ton.

   8. I put down a little over 5% and pay lender paid mortgage insurance as part of my monthly payment for the life of the loan, which worked out to be cheaper than taking private mortgage insurance. I had the money in savings when I decided to buy a house on a whim. I don’t regret it at all.

   9. I put down around 5% on my MCOL townhome in 2018. (was planning to do more, but PMI was negligible v. having that extra cushion for moving, repairs, etc.). Value has gone up enough that it should more than fund my contribution to our SFH down payment when we move (was SINK when I bought, now DINK).

      people told me I was crazy for buying in 2018 at the ‘height’ of the market in my area.. LOL.

      1. oh, and fully funded myself, no family help. combo of saving what I could from bonuses + side job (poshmark)

8. Anyone up for a Christmas movie recommendations thread (or rants)!
   So far I’ve enjoyed Merry Ex-Mas (Amazon Prime) – fun gender swap as the guy is the one with the ‘big city job’ who needs to see the error of his ways and reconnect with his family/ex. It also nicely called out all the invisible labor women do with families/holidays.
   Hot Frosty (Netflix) – someone called this ‘Encino Man but make it Christmas’ and that’s a great description. It’s totally silly, makes no real sense but it fun and sweet.
   Single All the Way (Netflix) – this went on a bit too long but was silly and fun, and Jennifer Coolidge clearly enjoyed hamming it up.

   1. Christmas As Usual, Netflix

   2. We watched Red One last weekend. It was genuinely funny. Lucy Liu and Chris Evans understood the movie they were in. Dwayne Johnson was Dwayne Johnson. J.K. Simmons rocked the Santa role. Sadly, Bonnie Hunt was underutilized.

      1. Bonnie Hunt is ALWAYS underutilized!

   3. I watched Dear Santa recently, if you like Jack Black and cheese you will enjoy it, but it’s not especially well written or anything.

      I also quite enjoyed Designing Christmas, it’s the usual trope, but with an old house twist. Again this isn’t quality cinema, it’s cheese and heart warm.

   4. I recently binged a bunch of Christmas and other Hallmark-ish movies on Netflix. Really enjoyed Holidate.
      Love guaranteed was fun until the ending ruined it.
      Hot Frosty was ok, a little campy. The same is true for A Heidelberg Holiday, and The Merry Gentlemen.
      A little more understated which I enjoyed: Christmas Island, A merry Scottish Christmas and Christmas in Notting Hill.
      A Paris Christmas Waltz was just cringe.
      Bad moms Christmas was entertaining.

   5. A mini rant that is mostly driven by amusement: every time I flip over to the Hallmark Channel lately, A 90s Christmas is on. I’ve watched bits of the movie and it’s fine, but it’s not the snowy, Christmas-decor-drenched charm fest I keep hoping for!

   6. A Biltmore Christmas is one of the cheesy holiday movies I actually really like. The leads have good chemistry.

      1. I LOVE Biltmore Christmas so much.
         Along that same feel is Ghosts of Christmas Always.

      2. yes, that one was fun!

   7. If you think Die Hard is a Christmas movie, check out the series Black Doves on Netflix.

      1. This popped up for me, and now I have to watch it!

         1. I enjoyed it more than I expected to!

   8. Watched White Christmas last night. Still one of my favorites! I could watch Vera-Ellen dance forever.

   9. I like sweet sappy rom-coms but things like Hot Frosty are too over the top for me. I really enjoyed Christmas in Notting Hill.

   10. The Ref

   11. I thought the most recent Lindsay Lohan Xmas movie was pretty good.
       Our Little Secret – on netflix.

       1. I’m watching this now!

   12. I love a cheesy holiday movie! My husband said he actually liked a biltmore christmas and usually just tolerates them :)

       all of the netflix Lindsay Lohan ones are actually good for the category!

       holidate – actually good

       Best. Christmas. Ever! – a more unique spin on the usual tropes, TW for child loss.

9. Anyone work on Capitol Hill or conduct legislative visits as part of their job? What are women wearing for these visits? Still black or navy suits, or is a non matching blazer and dress pants acceptable these days? Thanks!

   1. Non matching blazer and dress pants are fine. I actually rarely see full matching suits (but you would certainly not stick out if you had one on).

      1. +1, rarely see women in full suits anymore (men, yes) but if that’s what you have, you don’t need to go shop for something new.

   2. If you look at the front page of the NYT today, apparently any old dress is appropriate attire, as long as you throw a blazer over it (and add a small child as an accessory).

      1. And lest I be I accused of vague booking, I’d link, but unfortunately the photo isn’t there anymore. I can’t find it but you can sort of see it here. Doesn’t look as weird here though.
         (The kid is still weird).

         https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/global-trends/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-making-nice-and-naughty-list-doge-bugdet-2-trillion-cut-trump-has-the-duo-finalised-which-us-federal-employees-will-be-sacked/amp_articleshow/116050014.cms

         1. I haaate Elon, but I was really happy to open that photo and see that you weren’t snarking on a women on the Hill with her kid.

            1. Nope, just snarking on the billionaire who thinks it’s appropriate to use a kid as a prop at meetings about how to fire as many federal employees as possible.

         2. The kid is a human shield.

      2. Holy heck is that dress awful. And I say that as an older, non-fashion forward Midwesterner. Someone go get her a stool. She’s got cows to milk!

   3. Agree that I rarely see matching suits. I always default to having a blazer on, over pants or a dress, but I don’t often wear a full suit.

   4. Everyone dresses badly on the Hill. Whatever you have is probably fine.

10. Newish federal employee here who moved cross country for a job but is now staring down a furlough the week of Christmas. Everyone who voted for Trump and his chaos goons can eat a bag of d*cks.

    1. I agree. For those of you who are as angry as I am, a bag of candy d*cks (and nothing else) is a fun gift for relatives who suck.

    2. I was starting to get serious about buying a house but now I too am looking at going without pay. Except I’m deployed so I’ll still be working. Yay.

       1. I hopefully can ramp up my hours at my 2nd job so a bit is coming in while Elon et al stir up crap, but my primary job is supposed to be the stable one.

    3. Yup. I’m happy to give up a higher pay check to be a Fed, but the trade off to that is supposed to be stability. Between a pending furlough a lord knows what’s coming next year I’m irritated. I have lots of life plans that may have to go on hold if I feel like the stability isn’t there…

    4. As the wife of a federal corrections officer, I absolutely agree. Those federal employees still have to work during these shutdowns with no pay. And it takes weeks or months to get the back pay once the open the government back up.

       1. I don’t understand how that’s legal, at all. No pay, no work should be the only standard upheld in the courts.

          1. “Legal” is whatever the government says it is. It is not the same thing as “fair”.

             There are all kinds of rules for private employers but from which the government has exempted itself.

             1. remember that side plot in the West Wing about White House staff not being protected by OSHA regulations for ergonomics?

    5. I’m traveling Saturday and if there’s a shutdown, I’m thinking maybe I bring treats for the TSA folks?

       It all sucks, that’s for sure.

       1. They won’t take them, would you eat food from a random stranger?

       2. Oh me too. Are they allowed to take treats?

       3. Most federal employees won’t miss a paycheck until early January, so I don’t expect it to impact travel for the holidays. Just be extra nice and respectful to them.

       4. Unfortunately that’s not allowed: https://thepointsguy.com/news/no-you-cant-tip-tsa-officers-during-the-government-shutdown/

          But a good attitude is always appreciated!

    6. Ugh, kicking myself for not scheduling my newborn’s passport appointment.

       1. How inconvenient

    7. I was a fed during the 90 day or so shutdown and still am, so I guess nothing fazes me any more. Another day, another shutdown threat.

       1. When was there a 90 day shutdown? I thought the 2018-19 shutdown was the longest, and that was 35 days.

          1. OP here…I think you’re right LOL I guess it just felt like 90 days -_-

       2. If you’ve been a Fed that long then you probably have had a while to build up your emergency fund. The same cannot be said for us new Feds…

          1. +1,000. or rather, +9000, which is how much it cost to move for my new federal job because relocation wasn’t covered, as that wouldn’t be a good use of taxpayer resources or some such thing.

       3. I started with the gov’t in 1983 and my entire first year was filled with one and two day shutdowns, back then there was no provision for us to be paid back pay once we went back to work. Under Clinton, that shutdown was scary, I was a new mom and new homeowner and money was really tight. There was a snow storm that shut down DC immediately after an agreement had been reached so we were out of work for even longer. By the time we got to the Obama shutdown I was just over it and decided to enjoy my days off. I retired in 2023 and I’m so happy I’m not sweating this one out and I’m just wishing all my fellow workers get through it. It sucks to be used as pawns

    8. Ugh, things are hectic today as I’m trying to get so much wrapped up (I was going on leave tomorrow anyways, so it was already hectic. But now even more so).

       I was wanting to get myself a coffee to get through the rest of the afternoon, but now I won’t let myself because idk how long I’ll be between paychecks.

    9. I work for the only effing employer where leadership can eff around to the point where the employer can’t even pay its employees. And it happens somewhat regularly. And the bosses get to keep jobs despite failing so spectacularly employees don’t get paid . If a CEO did this the shareholders would have him fired immediately.

       It’s embarrassing for the country. It’s demoralizing for employees and for people who depend on the work we do. And it makes me so effing angry – I work really hard and give a lot for this country / my job and they can’t even make sure I get effing paid.

11. Very niche, but has anyone been to Orchard Corset lately? I live in DC and went there last in Summer ’23. I’d like to recommend it to friends here but am not certain it’s still around (and still basically like a time capsule from the ’50s.)

    Thanks for any intel!

    1. I didn’t go in, but I was on the block a week ago and it looked exactly the same.

    2. Oh gosh, I have such great memories of going there in like 2003. Thank you for the blast from the past!

12. Those of you who are on zoom/teams calls a lot — what is your headphones/speakers/microphone situation? Im starting a job with a LOT of video calls in the new year and want to take advantage of post Christmas sales. My AirPods are ok but not great. I’m open to a wired or wireless option and no budget.

    1. I’m only allowed to use the headset provided by work so … that

    2. I just use basic wired ear buds from
       Apple. They’re not super noticeable on screen unlike over the ear headphones.

    3. I just use the built in speakers, but I have an office both at work and at home.

    4. Anker speaker. Headphones hurt my ears. But I live alone so the noise is not an issue.

    5. In my office, I have a Dell Speakerphone sound bar thing that works really well (both the mic and the speaker). I don’t WFH often so when I do I just shut the door and use my Airpods.

       During the pandemic when I was fully WFH and lived on video calls, I had some ridiculously expensive noise-cancelling over the ear Plantronics bluetooth headphones that worked really well. They also jumped back and forth between various devices seamlessly. My spouse adopted them once I returned to the office and they are still going strong with daily use. That specific model doesn’t appear to be in production any longer, but based on that experience I would not hesitate to buy whatever the current version is now.

    6. I have a Jabra-brand headset with a microphone. I look like a telemarketer but oh well.

       1. I have this as well. Cheap and functional!

       2. Same here. I look like I’m working the drive through but the sound quality is good and they’re comfortable on back to back meetings.

    7. I do AirPods and they work well! What’s your pain point with AirPods?

       1. They don’t pair well with my windows laptop when I’m using zoom. Something just… unpairs them, somewhat regularly. I love them with all my Apple stuff though!

          1. I regularly zoom with someone who has that exact issue. It’s annoying on both sides.

    8. I use a Jabra speaker/mic and it has saved me after years of using a headset with a microphone.

    9. I use the after shockz headphones, which are the bone conduction kind. They hold a charge really well and are more comfortable than my AirPods

    10. I use my little Bluetooth Bose speaker for audio (I leave it plugged in to charge) and the built in laptop microphone for the mic. Seems to work well so far. No complaints from those I’m zooming with.

        1. This is my Bose speaker.

           https://a.co/d/cA1LLYM

           Wearing earbuds all day would drive me crazy so YMMV.

    11. For Teams, if my husband is also WFH I usually join the audio from my phone & Airpods so it’s quieter, and then add my laptop for the video and screensharing.

        Otherwise I just use my laptop and don’t fuss with the accessories.

        1. Same!

    12. Sennheiser USB-C lavalier microphone (XS Lav USB-C 509261), MacBook Pro speakers.

13. I put in an application for a manager position in a different group in my current company (I’m currently in legal, this would be regulatory affairs). The person who encouraged me to apply (would be my boss if I got the new position) said that she mentioned to my current manager that she wanted me to apply, and that he told her he is supportive of my application. However, I have not spoken to my manager directly about it. When/should I do that? A complication is that I’m currently out on parental leave. Thanks for any advice!

    1. Now. If you want the job you will want your boss’ actual support and to keep up a good relationship. Since your boss already knows it just gets awkward and weird if you let more time pass.

    2. Do it now, so there are no surprises and your manager hears it from you, “officially.”

14. Any recs for comfy joggers? More similar to sweatpants material than athleisure. Something that feels
    cozy but also you could be seen outside in

    1. Beyond Yoga Spacedye Midi Jogger.

    2. Agree with Beyond Yoga, but would also add Vuori joggers. Lots of different options but so comfy. Lulu also has some nice joggers, often with more structure than the other two options in my experience

       1. Same! I love my Vuoris. They’re not good for actually working out, IMO, but they’re perfect for running errands, flying, house chores, etc. They have a couple of different styles, including one that’s a bit more structured with a different type of material so that it doesn’t look quite as casual.

    3. Athleta Balance jogger. Only downside is they pill a little easier than they should so you really have to hang dry them.

    4. Definitely more on the sweatpants sides, but I have and like the “Vintage Soft Classic Joggers” from Gap and they are good if you need tall/petite sizes.

15. This is a NP vs PA vs Doctor question.

    In my area, you may want medical care and the providers taking new patients may be NPs or PAs, vs Doctors, which I’ve been OK with for what I see as low-risk things (well-child visits, flu shots, dermatology issues that aren’t things like removing skin cancers). Yes, the providers are often younger, but not alarmingly so (like I loved one NP who was older, but she retired during COVID because her kids needed her help with the grandkids once schools / daycares closed).

    Lately, I’ve been reading online how there is a glut of ill-trained NPs out there, basically out of diploma mills. IDK if that applies to nurses in my area (most of whom are in hospital-owned practices that don’t seem otherwise suspect). I’ve known NPs who went to Duke and Penn and Yale and we have a good local PA school. I understand that PA school is very hard to get into and that med school is REALLY hard to get into and that the real problem is that med schools aren’t churning out enough generalists for all places where people live (vs high-paid specialists in large cities where they may prefer to live).

    At any rate, do you care? Should I? I hadn’t thought about it much but as I get older, and present with less-vanilla complaints, might I start to care more?

    1. NPs/PAs are fine for urgent care issues, but I will always insist on an MD/DO as my PCP.

       1. This is exactly where I fall. I’ll trust a NP or PA to order an MRI or write a prescription for prednisone when I’m breaking out in hives. Otherwise, MD or DO.

    2. What you should care about is that at the same time the diploma mills are growing, the nursing lobby is working very hard to expand authority / the situations in which they can work without doctor oversight. Some legitimate reasons to do so around increasing access to care, but also a bit of a tricky mix: more poorly trained clinicians allowed to do a broader range / more complicated things solo. This is the shared opinion of multiple family members who are RNs, NPs, and MDs and all see concern in this. We have no problem seeing NPs for urgent but non-emergency sick visits or in the hospital when clearly working with the broader medical team, but would not see for routine physicals or any ongoing medical issues in an outpatient setting.

       1. Is there diploma mills (by name) to watch out for? I have a friend who went to NYU for NP who I think is a skilled practitioner, but acts as an MD-extender is her practice.

          In my city, there are some med clinics basically run by nurses maybe with no MD on site and maybe with not a legit training school. I went to NYU (not medical) and while it felt like a diploma mill in my program, I think their medical programs are the real deal.

       2. Agreed that the online schools are an issue, but so it the lower bar to entry. Requirements used to be multiple years of clincial practice as a RN before you could enter NP school. Now there are many programs that take students with no experience. This includes many of the big names. (Yale, etc.). You can enter with another bachelors degree and the pre-recs. No clincial experience. NP school does not follow the medical model of education. So these students are not really prepared. The push for independent practice is another huge issue. As initially conceived NP/PAs worked under the supervision of a MD/DO. But now that oversights is minimal (MD signs off charts with no knowledge of the patient or evaluation of the plan of care). And in states with NP independent practice there is no oversight.

    3. Our state also has (I think) something called a nurse-midwife, which is a nurse with some advanced training. I think time in practice to me starts to look a lot like “has more training” that people use to argue against advanced nursing practice. Like if a woman is old enough to have assisted in decades of births, and no schooling has been online, I think she probably provides good quality care. Any new provider, fresh out of school, especially if any is online, it had better be something with an MD on site and low-ish stakes to me.

       1. I used a nurse midwife for my second child and really really regret that I used a doctor for the first. My first birth was long and medically mismanaged (I wasn’t allowed to walk, or eat, during 42 hours of labor and I was exhausted by the end) and my dd ended up in the NICU for 2 weeks. I think midwifery is a wonderful instuition and wish it were more widespread.

    4. I see a PA for my arthritic shoulder (I’m in my 50s and too young for this but here we are.) She works together with the top shoulder/ortho MD specialist in my city.

       So when I see her she can evaluate me, give me an injection or a prescription and go through future options, but if I’m headed to surgery ultimately, that would be with the MD. She says “the type of surgery Dr. A and I do..” so I guess she’s on the surgery team as well.

       I like her. She has great specific knowledge in this area, and she takes the time, which I don’t always get with an MD.

    5. I like my NP, but she’s at a hospital system where she can easily contact specialists about anything she doesn’t know. So when my thyroid meds were recalled, she just messaged an endocrinologist to find out what I should be prescribed instead, and it saved me a visit (and copay) with an endocrinologist. She is also quick to look things up, and I’d rather have a PCP who looks things up than one who is wrong or out of date but too confident to realize it.

       If I needed work up for something brand new and concerning and not just management of known or common conditions, I’d probably want to see a good internist though, because even a lot of MDs aren’t always great diagnosticians when the possibility space is very large.

    6. I generally read their bios on line at the practice website and see where they went to school. Most newly minted NPs and PAs are the age of my children — in fact my daughter is a nurse, although in an ICU and her bff is a PA in the practice I go to for my primary care. I pretty much trust my gut on who I see. I made sure I had a MD for my gyn, and for my chronic serious condition and I feel like my family practice NP refers me out for any issues she’s greatly concerned about.

    7. I haven’t cared in the past, and have actually had great experiences with at least two PAs in primary care. They both spent much more time with me than any MD I’ve ever seen. One of them correctly pinpointed that a new medication was actually at too low of a dose to deal with a new symptom (I thought the symptom was because of the new med, but it was actually my condition getting worse and needing a higher dose), and the other correctly guessed that my very strange constellation of symptoms was an atypical presentation of gallstones. She also has seemed very up to date on new research and has always told me what to expect when I visit a specialist she refers me to, which is more info about how to navigate the healthcare system than any other provider has ever done.

       By contrast I’ve had two MD PCPs who I’ve really liked (although one was incorrect about the appropriate dosing for one of my meds, which had to be sorted out by a specialist MD), and one that I did not like at all and didn’t go back to. So I think it’s really dependent on the individual person, less so on their specific degree.

    8. I think you should stop posting long vague ranty complaints full of parentheticals about things that are not actually a problem and treat your anxiety.

       1. NP diploma mills are a real problem.

          1. Where is your data/reference here?

             1. e.g. https://journals.lww.com/em-news/fulltext/2021/02000/after_the_match__boosting_profits_drives_np.6.aspx

                That’s on top of things like https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2023/02/21/how-thousands-of-nurses-got-licensed-with-fake-degrees/

                Basically there are NPs and then there are NPs based on prior education and experience. Nursing education varies widely in general, from absolutely fabulous to cheating was easy and overlooked. Nurses can pick up a lot on the job (if management didn’t fire all the senior staff and throw the new hires into the deep end), but if they rush to become a NP and then a NP specialist, it’s potentially not a lot of experience or a lot of education.

    9. For primary care I’ve had better experiences with PAs than with MDs. They don’t seem as rushed or as jaded and are more willing to take things seriously and to listen to quality-of-life concerns–like can we do something about this asthma so I’m not getting bronchitis every couple of weeks?

16. I have Christmas cards for around ten of my colleagues that I’m close with and I wanted to add a little something chocolate or otherwise when I drop it at their desks – what can likely grab from Target that will be the right level of appropriate? People usually home make cookies or even bring wine to colleagues but I’m trying to keep it small. Also two of my colleagues are vegan.

    1. Ghirardelli peppermint bark squares

       1. Oops sorry these are not vegan

    2. I don’t know whether this works on the vegan front, but I love when my coworkers stick a Dove chocolate, one of those little Hershey nuggets, etc. to cards. I collect the candies in my pencil drawer as emergency pick-me-ups, not only does the sugar hit but the sentiment behind them gives me a smile.

    3. I would second the Ghirardelli squares for the omnivores and do Justin’s dark chocolate peanut butter cups or Hu chocolate bars for the vegans. Though I think the card by itself is completely fine!

       1. Thanks so much… my Target didn’t have the Endangered Species bars someone else mentioned, the Hu bars look a little TOO healthy, so the Justin’s were a perfect pick – you saved me a lot of time!!!

    4. Not very Christmas-y but the Endagered Species Bars that they sell at Target are vegan. They have an elephant on the label and come in a few flavor choices.

    5. Thanks all! OP here – I will go with a separate vegan option and just pick up the ghiradelli squares or dove chocolates (or both…) to put with the cards. I appreciate you!!

    6. OP again – would you think it’s weird to receive someone’s family Christmas card?? We’re all pretty close but it’s mostly pictures of my kids.

       1. If you’re close, no.

       2. I do it . Not for everyone but if we talk every workday you’re getting the family Christmas card. Feel free to throw it out!

       3. Nope! Not weird.

       4. I mail my family holiday card to half a dozen of my coworkers, and often also get their card. It’s the people I go out to lunch with or would meet up for brunch on the weekends

       5. Not at all, I get a dozen family photo cards from various coworkers and former coworkers each year. I think it is a lovely window into their lives and it feels nice that they shared that glimpse with me.

17. do you get your boss a holiday gift? i strongly believe gifts run downhill and never do but wondering if i’m in the minority? my boss just gave me a bottle of wine, like nothing crazy….

    1. Never!

    2. Gifts run downhill only.

    3. No.

       1. secondary question– how much thanking is required. like i said thank you when she handed it to me. is there more expected?

          1. Nope!

    4. I do small gifts only, mostly really corny things based on inside jokes. The little hand-shaped finger puppets I gave him were a hit after he bragged about the “giant” fish he caught, which turned out to be a minnow.

    5. Never gift up!! At most write a thoughtful card, but I’ve never even done that.

    6. I run a department and agree no gifting up. A few people always will though. I always get my direct reports a gift and they always say thank-you, usually a text or IM. I put it in the normal category of acknowledging when someone does something nice. It never hurts to say thank you.

    7. Never gift up! Thank you at the time is enough, or if you didn’t receive in person, a 2 sentence email.

    8. The closest I’ve ever gotten to giving my boss a gift is when we had a white elephant exchange and my grand-boss got mine. It was a “dad joke button” and it has since been donated to sit in one of the lesser used conference rooms.

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