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Coffee Break: Marcie Flat

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brown mesh ballet flat

These trendy Sam Edelman shoes look great and are winning rave reviews for comfort.

I think these would be great in a casual office (or on a casual day). There are a lot of great user-submitted photos of reviewers wearing the shoes with dresses, and while I'm not usually on Team Flats with Dresses, these are flats that even I can get behind.

The shoes are $140 at Nordstrom, Shopbop, and other department stores; Nordstrom has them in 5 colors.

Sales of note for 6/19:

115 Comments

  1. We have an open door office and also can come and go whenever we want. I have a next door office neighbor who almost always has her door shut and never says anything to me when she comes and goes. When I come in, I try to say “hello” to everyone as I pass them by – we are a tiny boutique law firm with 6 partners and we all work together well. She and I are the only women partners. I should just chalk it up to her wanting a lot of alone time, right? I feel weird that she doesn’t ever say hi to me unless I say hi first. My office has been next to hers for a few years now so I know this will not change. Time for me to just let it go, right? I don’t know why it annoys me but it does.

    1. Sincere question: If it’s been a few years now, what is happening this week or today that is especially annoying about this?

    2. Yes. This is your neurosis. You don’t need to chalk it up to anything; this is just how she works and how she passes people in the hall. It doesn’t mean anything.

    3. That’s rude and wouldn’t fly in certain European offices (it’s considered rude not to greet people in elevators and doctor waiting rooms in Germany, FFS). It’s definitely annoying but what can you do.

      1. It sounded like she was reciprocating greetings. Agree it would be rude to ignore a “hi.”

    4. soooooooo saying hi to me and expecting a response daily would annoy the bejesus out of me. i’m adhd and get into my little workflows and that would yank me right out and then i’d need like 15 minutes playing my dumb phone game to try to recover.

      1. Social norms exist so we can all rub along in the world together. If you don’t say hi in a small office, fine, but be prepared to take a hit for that.

        1. But this social norm is making it harder to rub along in the world together? If you say hi to everyone you pass and expect a greeting, be prepared to take a hit for being needy and annoying.

          1. lol no that’s literally the opposite of what most people think. Greetings are by very definition supposed to be reciprocal. I know that we’re all supposed to be leaning hard into our diagnoses but come on.

          2. In Germany it’s rude not to greet people in elevators. In Russia it’s rude to greet the same person more than once in a day. Educated people can handle some diversity of norms.

          3. right but people in the elevator aren’t in the middle of a task. if someone is on a phone call would you be like HI! HI! PLEASE LOOK AT ME! HI! HIIIIIYEEEE I’M HERE ISN’T IT WONDERFUL

          5. re phone call I meant like in an elevator b/c it’s hard to think of other tasks you could be doing in an elevator

            but that’s a good point – is she visually checking before saying hi whether or not people are involved in a task or on the phone?

            look it’s one thing if it’s “hi” and a returned “hi” (although I probably would close my door like this lady is doing). but sometimes people want to chitchat or stop and talk. i don’t want to talk to you, i’m working.

          6. This is insane! Because I greet people in the hallway as opposed to ignoring them, I am needy? No, you are simply rude.

        1. No kidding it’s a “you problem”; it’s a developmental disability. If it had been solved it would be national news.

    5. Not the OP, but the vibe is not what I think of when it comes to “boutique.” To me, that is more of a warm team, not just a statement of size. Like people function as one, maybe because they talk to each other?

      Do you ever as part of a bigger group talk shop, go over cases, talk about new laws or caselaw? I feel that frost at a smaller firm is just not great. But clearly we can live this way.

      I’m in a bit of a silo at BigLaw and hate it. But I’d hate the frost at a smaller shop because it would feel more personal.

    6. Maybe ask if she wants to grab lunch sometime. “I’d love to know more about what you work on; maybe we could work together on some opportunities.” In work, it’s not all business or social, but you can’t move the business forward when you don’t have a baseline relationship with a person and a handle on would you even want to bring them on to a project. Selfishly, coldly, she should know this and move it forward or say politely something making it clear it’s not you “I’d love to, but I have twins in the NICU and an elder on hospice and when I come up for air, let’s catch up.”

      If you’re a partner, you need to be the change you want to have be the vibe of your firm.

      1. I assumed based on “we all work together well” that nothing was amiss in terms of baseline relationship. Did I misinterpret OP?

      2. I wouldn’t invite someone to lunch just because you are miffed they don’t say hi to you every day.

    7. I am in a similar situation but in a three attorney firm. When I started here, the other female attorney in my office told me, unprompted, that she isn’t friends with her coworkers. She also keeps her door closed and on the off chance I need something from her, it is a toss up whether it will be a pleasant experience or not.

    8. I used to work in a firm that was on the smaller side, and we had an open-door culture. I worked between the reception desk and the kitchen. I developed blinders on who was coming and going, and people had to actively say hello to me for me to look up from my computer. Even then, I rarely returned more than a cursory “good morning” unless someone stopped at my office and initiated a conversation. It was truly the only way to stay in any type of workflow.

      I was actually quite happy to chat if someone came and started a conversation with me, but I wasn’t going to interrupt my work multiple times per day just to exchange pleasantries. It’s so hard to get back to work once I’m interrupted!

      1. This was my interpretation; if she keeps the door closed, it sounds like she is the kind of person who benefits from uninterrupted focus, and she’s probably not saying “hi” because she’s still in that headspace until interrupted. It’s not a slight or a personal thing or frosty in this scenario.

        1. I agree with this. It’s great to be the warm, friendly person, but if someone else wants to focus on their work and isn’t going out of their way to greet you every day, just let them do their thing.

    9. I would keep saying hello, being as warm and pleasant to her as everybody else, and other than that let it go.

      As for why it annoys you, who knows? Maybe it’s because it’s next door, maybe it’s because you would have loved to have a female ally as partner and feel sad about the loss, maybe it’s a light form of internalised expectation that a woman should be friendly, maybe it sets of a tiny insecurity, maybe you’re conflict avoidant and it feels like rejection, maybe you’re an excellent networker and extrovert and genuinely feel puzzled by why anybody might not want to chat!

    10. She’s not a golden retriever; she doesn’t owe you a cheerful daily greeting. It was absolutely not the norm at my last firm to say hello to everyone every morning. We’re all adults and we all have work to do.

    11. Does she arrive before you? Personally I say hi when I arrive and that’s it. Late comers don’t get a hi because I’m focused on work.

    14. Do you chat with her and would you consider her otherwise friendly? Does she treat you differently than she treats everyone else? Some people just don’t like to be interrupted. I really don’t see why adults need to say anything to other adults when they come and go. Sure, if you make eye contact as you’re walking by, say a quick hi or by, or wave, but it really doesn’t strike me as common to expect a routine, daily, hello and goodbye from your office neighbors. Even in a small firm. And if you don’t work with her or otherwise interact, it seems even weirder to expect her to let you know when she leaves. Who cares?

    15. As an introvert, I’ve been beaten over the head with this message constantly. People have different styles of communication and working. You aren’t going to gain anything by forcing someone to act like you want them to. Maybe she just wants to come into work and get her job done and go home. Maybe she keeps her door closed because she’s too polite to tell you that you talk too much. Every introvert has heard the suggestion to just talk more and internally thought or maybe extroverts could just talk less.

      1. I’m an introvert and I participate in social niceties. It’s not synonymous with socially stunted, or unfriendly.

        1. Saying hello when greeted is participating and is friendly. Keeping track of who said hi first and fretting about it is unhealthy. There is no objectively correct degree of friendliness, and any social network works better when some people are friendlier than others. It is better not to nurture insecurities about any of it.

      2. FWIW, extroverts (especially extroverted women) often get the suggestion to talk less, and it’s just as hurtful and impossible as the opposite scenario. Would be great if we could just try to accept people as-is.

        1. This. Stop reading too much into people’s benign differences, stop taking so many things personally, and stop trying to fix or change people when nothing is really wrong.

          Also I would guess that very few of us are actively liked by everyone we work with. Do we all actively like all of our coworkers? If we’ve worked with people for years successfully, I think we will just hurt our own feelings if we try to seek out evidence we’re not particularly liked, especially when we may be wrong anyway (I am confident this lady treats everyone this way and it means nothing). It’s not a bad thing when people can work together whether or not they’d hang out outside of work, and whether or not they share all the same social norms, customs, backgrounds, and personalities. The most important common ground is the work itself, the shared skills, and the part where we are getting paid.

  2. how comfortable are you with apps where your financial institutions connect to something like Simplifi or Monarch? my friend was saying he hates those and doesn’t trust htme.

    3. I don’t know what either of those are, but I opt out of and shut off all connectors that are not mandatory for a task I am doing. That data sharing and access isn’t altruistic.

    4. I opt out and won’t even leave Venmo connected to my bank account after a transaction goes through.

  3. Getting a new car question: What is the upside of a hatchback vs. a sedan? I’ve never had a hatchback.

    1. You can fit more stuff back there with easy seat lie-down. They’re much more practical for outdoorsy lifestyles. There’s also usually better headroom for the rear seat passengers.

    2. Would you ever want to carry large things in your trunk? I.e. dogs, bicycles, tools/materials, camping kit, groceries for 6 mos, etc? If so, get a hatchback.

    3. Passenger row = A
      Rear trunk = B

      In sedan, you get A and B for storage, but often only a small pass through for the length of A+B, possibly for something narrow like skis, but not something bigger, like many rubbermaid tubs or a cooler.

      In a hatchback, you can put down the seatback and get the full length of A+B for larger items, like a kitchen table with the legs taken off.

    5. Much more flexible use of the interior space than in a sedan.

      I am old enough to remember when 60/40 split folding rear seats came into play and that was amazing for being able to lug stuff around without borrowing a pickup truck. Hatchbacks take that optionality up another notch.

    6. Another point to keep in mind: items in the hatchback are visible to other passengers and to people peeping in off the street. Sneaking presents home from work gets a lot harder.

    7. If you ever want to be able to leave anything in your car without inviting a passerby to break into your vehicle, choose the sedan with a locking trunk.

  4. My almost 11 year old has underarm hair. She’s very fair with black hair. She hasn’t said anything about it, but i don’t want her to get teased. Do I stay silent until she approaches me? Or do I teach her to shave it? Anyone have experience with this?

    1. You stay silent until she approaches you. Don’t give her something to be self-conscious about. Society will do enough of that.

      1. idk, when I was that age I didn’t want to ask my mom and tried using tweezers to pull the hairs out…

        I would recommend putting it out there as an option – “Hey, when I was around your age I wanted to start shaving my armpits, let me know if/when you want to as well. And it’s fine if you decide you never want to, but I just wanted to make sure I could get you the stuff you need if/when you do want to.”

    2. do you have the american girl books the care and keeping of you? they have some pages on hair growth and options.

    3. Would stay silent for now.

      If you have somewhere that you keep extra toiletries (that she knows where is) stock some extra pads and tampons of differnt sizes, razors, shower gel, shampoo, deodorant, toilet paper etc. for the whole family. Open any multipacks and remove plastic as routine. If she wants to experiment, there’s some easily available to sneak, and if she asks you, there’s some easily available for you to give.

    4. When I was that age, I snuck into my parent’s bathroom and shaved with their razor. I was too embarrassed to talk about it with my parents but felt ashamed about my hair. I would have been relieved if my mom had said, “Here’s a razor and shaving cream you can use if you want. I’m happy to explain if you’re interested.”

      2. Same for this. You know your kid, but for me I wasn’t going to *ask* my mom for any of this stuff, or to talk about it with her (and that was nothing she did wrong!) but really appreciated her approach of “I picked up a few training bras/box of pads and tampons/razor so you’ll have it on hand if you want to try; lmk if you have questions or want to try something different” (paired with a how-to book).

      3. Same, except I pressed way too hard and cut myself all over. My mom then kindly showed me how to properly shave, which I still remember being grateful for. Ask gently and without judgement one time, in case she is ready but embarrassed to ask.

    5. Let her know she can come to you if she ever has questions about her body or how to take care of it, whether it’s hair, periods, acne, bras, hips, whatever.

      My own kid had dark underarm hair that she preferred to keep natural (and she is now an adult). Her peer group wasn’t in to shaving the way my peer group was at that age.

    6. I would just ask her if she would like to remove it, while assuring her either option is fine. I don’t understand the hesitation on this board to broach the subject. The reality is that female underarm hair is not the beauty norm in American society, and it’s a disservice to wait for the daughter to get teased or embarrassed before discussing the topic with her.

    7. Does she shave her legs/have you offered to teach her to shave more generally?

      I get the concern about making her self conscious, but fwiw, I remember being that age and just… not realizing most women shaved their armpits and all of a sudden mine needed it too. Fortunately I had slightly older cousins to point it out! But it truly wasn’t an “oh, I don’t want to shave my pits and am opting out” thing; it was a “I’ve heard about shaving your legs and I said yes when my mom offered to buy me razors and show me, but I didn’t know armpits were a thing”. So I’d say something, and let it go if she’s not interested.

    9. There is an episode of the puberty podcast This is So Awkward about body hair that I thought had some good scripts. I think it’s fine to say, “Hey- there’s a wide range of thoughts and preference on body hair and it is all acceptable. If you want to learn to shave let me know because there are right and wrong ways to remove hair and I want you to do it safely and comfortably.”

  5. is anyone else seriously concerned that by the time we retire in 10 years there’s going to be societal collapse/WWIII and no matter how much you have saved you’re still going to be hurting? i can’t tell if it’s normal retirement fear or just hysteria about this moment in time.

    1. I’m definitely concerned. 10 years ago when we first got a financial advisor, I told him not to factor Social Security into our retirement planning. It’s going to get worse than that IMO.

      1. There’s a lot of space between “no social security payments” and “societal collapse” tho

    4. My grandparents managed WWII, and my great grand parents managed WWI. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but I have toughness in my DNA, and I bet you do, too. I also think that’s much less likely than, like, Parkinson’s or Alzheimer’s, which also would be overwhelming and awful.

      Basically, I’m confident in my ability to handle hard things; I think the most likely hard things are health things; and this is a great time to make sure you know how to maintain your clothing, your health, your food supply, and your house if you think any of those could be uniquely imperiled by war.

      1. It’s good advice. Still there are a lot of people alive right now thanks to the kinds of health interventions that can’t be stocked up on. It is hard for me to think through preparedness when some supply chain disruptions could mean hospitalization.

        Still more worried about Parkinson’s though (sleep study to assess for REM Sleep Behavior Disorder has me uneasy).

    5. When my great-grandmother was my age, it was the summer of 1930. She had three teenage daughters in SW OK and a deceased husband. They lost the small-town family store. She was *very* lucky she could take in boarders and eventually, her daughters could teach school in various (even smaller) towns. Bad stuff happens, but it’s not always the end.

    6. Never say never, but I think the odds are low: say 0.5%-1% over the next 10 years?

      If there are things I can do that both help prepare me for *true collapse* really bad stuff, *and* make my life better now, I’m all for it. Probably the best in this category is knowing your neighbors! A go-bah that you are way more likely to use for a few days of tornado/wildfire/earthquake evacuation is always a good idea.

      If there’s things that make my life way worse now but miiiiiight help in a true crisis (ie quit my job and stockpile weapons and seeds in the middle of nowhere), nope.

      If there was something really, really important, like would matter to whether I thought I’d lived a meaningful life, that I was planning to do in retirement, but I could feasibly do now, I’d do it now. You can get hit by a bus any day, no societal collapse needed.

      1. We put in a whole-house generator, which I’ve been wanting to do for a long time anyway.

  6. Can someone who understands meds and pharmacy benefit managers tell me if I can ever fill a 90-day ADHD Rx for Ritalin? Or by mail? Or if it has to be 30-day in person and show an ID (so no delivery option)?

    Ditto for sleep meds (zolpidem).

    Trying to manage meds for a kid and an elder.

    1. I’ve seen a 90 day Concerta (Ritalin, but extended release) Rx but believe it required special insurance company authorization and was for specific circumstances (a long distance move, covering the time to get set up with a new doctor in the new location).

    3. Call the insurers and ask their policies. They may allow 90 days by mail when they only allow 30 days in person. Every plan is frustratingly different.

    5. On the subject of zolpidem refills, it shouldn’t be coming up more than once since it’s only approved for short term use (max around six weeks).

    6. The answers are going to depend on a combination of federal and state law, and insurance provider policies. And possibly on the prescribing doctor’s willingness to issue and document the need for the 90-day supply.

      There is no one overarching rule that applies to all drugs in all states under all insurance policies.

      1. I know state law can be stricter, but I didn’t think it can be more lenient if we’re talking scheduled meds (which we are).

    7. It’s a controlled substance. Which means you’ll have to go in person always, every month, and hope they’re not sold out of the version that’s being used.

    1. Pisco sour is the obvious choice.

      Anything where you’d use a great tequila might work.

    3. a super easy option is pisco mixed with coca cola with ice. Tastes like a jack and coke and a mainstay everyday drink in Chile. you could also do a pisco sour if you want to get fancy and if want to have fun, you could compare between Peruvian or Chilean versions.

      1. Hahaha piscola brings back great study abroad memories, so maybe it’s that but it doesn’t seem like something I’d do with *nice* pisco. But a pisco sour can be as fancy as you like & is delicious!

  8. why do I draw such a blank on things like this? I need to name a leader I admire and wish I could have a conversation with and its like everything evaporated from my head

    3. Some people I’d be interested in talking to:

      Billie Jean King
      George Washington
      Dolores Huerta
      Marcus Aurelius

    4. i’d be interested to talk with Elizabeth Warren, Heather Cox Richardson, Rachel Maddow… but all of those kind of fly the politics flag.

  9. I can’t really share with anyone in real life but with the recent market gains, I hit $1 million in my retirement accounts for the first time!

  10. Laptops with touchscreens – I’ve never had one and don’t really want one. But that seems to be the overwhelming choice right now. Is it a PITA? Something I’ll grow to love?

    1. It’s not a PITA. I had one and liked it and then switched back to a regular screen and didn’t miss it. Typing is just more efficient for most of what I do so I didn’t use it much. If there’s an actual tablet mode (like if the keyboard folds out of the way), that can be kind of nice for screen sharing or watching a show.

      1. Sorry not screen sharing, but “sharing the screen” in the same physical space as someone else (like “here choose your pizza toppings”).

    2. You don’t have to use the touchscreen if you don’t want to.

      My last laptop purchase has the touchscreen. I use it all the time via touch, but of course it functions as a normal computer and I use the keyboard / commands the most. For some things, it is just easier/faster to use touch. It definitely grew on me, and now at times when I am using someone else’s laptop, I am miss the touchscreen.

    3. I have one at work and love it. I use the touchscreen instead of a mouse or trackpad. I didn’t love it enough to pay extra on my home laptop

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