Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Silk Crepe de Chine Top
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
My current favorite jeans are from Frame, but I hadn't spent much time looking into their other options until I came across this gorgeous silk crepe de chine top. I love the fabric-covered buttons, and the gathered sleeves look so chic.
I’d pair this army green color with some light gray trousers for the office and some great denim for the weekend.
The top is $100, marked down from $328, at the Outnet and comes in sizes XS-XL. It’s also available in navy.
P.S. If you're using Chrome and get an “Access Denied” error for the link for the top, you should have better luck with incognito mode, Firefox, or Edge.
Sales of note for 6/2:
- Nordstrom – Designer clearance up to 40% off!
- Ann Taylor – 30% off dresses, jackets, and shoes
- AYR – Ooh, good sale section — but lots on final sale. Readers love these comfy work pants and these jeans.
- Boden – 15% off new women's wear styles with code
- Express – Today only (6/2): all clearance up to 85% off when you take an extra 20-50% off
- J.Crew – 20% off $200, including new styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 50% off clearance + 40-60% off everything else
- Loft – 60% off sale styles
- M.M.LaFleur– Up to 70% off, plus new styles added! (Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off)
- Nordstrom Rack – Clear the Rack! Nice selection of Vince, Veronica Beard, Reiss and Rag & Bone, a ton of affordable work basics from Calvin Klein and dresses from Maggy London, Eliza J, and Donna Morgan
- Talbots – Buy one, get one 50% off everything!
Has anyone else reached a point in their career where they just don’t have the energy to “work the room” anymore?
I’m at a professional gathering with lots of potential connections and opportunities and past me would’ve been talking to everyone and maximizing every interaction. Now I mostly just feel… uninterested.
I can’t tell if it’s burnout, cynicism, maturity, social fatigue or just changing priorities. Curious if other mid-career women have experienced this shift.
When I’ve experienced this, it has been burnout. I’m 13 years into my legal career. For me, it always passes with some time. In the meantime, just push through and do what you always did. Faking it until you make it has real value in situations like this.
Since you didn’t immediately dismiss burnout, cynicism, and social fatigue as potentially part of the equation, but actually listed them as potential causes . . . I’d say you’re dealing with burnout, cynicism, and social fatigue, at least to some level.
There may be more going on that’s part of what you’re experiencing, but if you were feeling energized and engaged, rather than burned out, accepting and hopeful rather than cynical, and open to people and relationships rather than socially fatigued, you’d wouldn’t have listed those as potential factors. So I’d take them seriously.
This is me. 46 in a relationship-focused job. I just don’t want to anymore and I’m not sure what to do about it. I’ve been contemplating career pivots for years and am struggling to find an alternative. I don’t know what combination of factors has gotten me here but I worry about how it will affect me long term.
100% and in the same spot. It’s been nearly a year and I’m struggling to care. Early 40s so retirement isn’t an option.
Yes. 46yo engineering director in a not woman-friendly industry. For the last 25 years it’s been nothing but drive to be the best, advance. After being frustrated by the glass ceiling the last 5-ish years, I’ve reached some level of acceptance and I’m just not giving my energy to the networking opportunities anymore. I’m mostly introverted, they suck my energy, and if there’s no real payout, why bother? (I say this flippantly but it’s been some hard realizations to get here)
I posted a few days ago saying that I had lost a couple pounds but looked like I lost more, and a lot of the replies were to measure myself instead. Well I did and compared against measurements I had happened to take 6 months ago, and my waist is 1 inch smaller and hips 1.5 inches. So on a 5’4″ frame that seems to make a difference, and I will keep keeping track of measurements.
Thanks for posting about this earlier! I am on a similar path and definitely noticed my clothes fitting differently before the scale budged. I have only dropped 5 pounds (~80 left to go to reach my ideal healthy goal) but have already gone down an entire pant size.
it’s super dorky but I like my zozofit suit for measurements
A friend who lost a substantial amount of weight intentionally told me that she has noticed that 5 pounds puts her in a different clothing size on her thinner frame whereas she would gain or lose 15 pounds or more before her clothing size changed when she wore larger sizes.
I’m tall and 5 pounds is the difference between my clothes being comfortable and uncomfortable. Much beyond that would be a different size for me. Same if I lose 5 pounds, then my clothes are lose but still wearable, but more than that probably would be a smaller clothing size.
Ferry from Manly to Circular Quay across Sydney Harbor every morning, with a flat white in hand bought from from the Belgian Waffle guy at Manly wharf (sadly, no longer there).
Ack! Meant for the commute comment below.
Ack. thread fail, meant for the commute question below!
And yet, hilariously, that routine might also impact one’s pants size!
Bret Contreras posts about this occasionally. He says that muscle is denser than fat (taking up about 85% as much space) and also talks about how your shape changes. Weight comes off hips, thighs, waist, and muscles get built in the calves, glutes, shoulders, etc., making for a different appearance even without much weight change.
What’s the most fun commute you or someone you know has had? Sadly these weren’t me (although I have enjoyed walking commutes at the very least), but I know someone who would kayak down a Class I-II river to work and then carpool back each day. Then I heard secondhand about someone who sailed from Martha’s Vineyard to Wood’s Hole each day. Can you imagine how much more satisfying those would be compared to sitting in car traffic??
My best commute was the T and a pleasant walk through Harvard Square and the campus.
I have always had car commutes for work, but in law school, I lived within walking distance from school and it was nice having an easy walk to and from class every day. I miss those days and wish I had enjoyed the nice walks more!
My dream is a walking commute. I’ve had a series of hideous commutes over the year (one involving a plane…) but just moved house and new commute is 4 mile cycle, train, 1.5 mile cycle. I have a pedal assist on my bike and it’s all off road. Did it for the first time last week and it’s definitely better.
I used to walk 30 minutes each way to my office and loved it. But a casual dress code and lightweight bag are important. These days it would be tough since I have to dress more formally and carry a heavy bag (hybrid model plus hotel desk policy)
I sometimes swam across a river and then biked the rest of the way one summer in college (my house was on one side of the river and my friend’s on the other so I just left some stuff there).
I love this haha
I used to commute on the cable car to my office in downtown SF and now I take the ferry in from Marin. All very civilized.
That sounds lovely. How is the commute to the ferry?
I used to have a grinding commute in to Hoboken, but just seeing the Hudson every day, especially at the Golden Hour, was something so soul-refreshing and I will remember it forever. A glimpse of magic.
The commutes from Alameda or Marin on the ferry are the best commutes in the Bay Area.
+1 million. The bay area ferries are gorgeous, comfortable and have amazing views.
I had 5-6 different NYC subway commutes, but my favorite was the one that included the N train going over the Manhattan bridge. I loved the view. I also had some nice walking commutes in other cities.
Oh yes. B/Q train over the bridge was always gorgeous no matter how many times you’ve seen it.
I often get carsick on the cab ride from LGA to midtown, but learned that looking out the window and taking in the views often kept it from getting awful and the views are amazing.
Biking to work in London; a very calm backstreet then Kensington Gardens and green park. My office had a shower so I showed up to work feeling great, and got another dose of energy from the cycle home. Zero gym fees and I was in the best shape of my life.
Second best was a walk through a botanical garden in a smaller city.
Worst was the current situation of sitting at my home office desk!
Ooh, I had a botanical gardens walk once. It was really lovely. I felt really in touch with the seasons.
Yes! I was so much more aware of the passing of time when I had an outdoors commute.
River taxi I Chicago or end to end riverwalk walking commute. But i live in an apartment with much less space than many of you. Just always knew I hated commuting and prioritized ability to walk over other things.
I knew someone who took a ferry across one of the Great Lakes to teach at a tiny island school. He took the ferry on Monday morning, stayed on the island for the week, and ferried back to the mainland for the weekends. I believe he lived in the schoolhouse during the week.
I have questions. Why wouldn’t he just live on the island? A relative of mine is a mayor of one of the islands and really those ferries are just designed for tourists though the locals will use them to go to Costco.
I don’t think there was a place for him to really live. He basically had a room in the back of the schoolhouse with a cot and a hotplate. I don’t remember which island or which lake, but I know it wasn’t one with much to attract tourist traffic and the population was very small, something like a hundred people in all.
The housing situation in super rural areas sucks. If my partner and I decide to leave (he is a teacher, I can work anywhere) it is because of housing. Neither of us are extravagant people, but finding a place that isn’t about to fall down is near impossible, and getting people from the nearest city am hour away means building a house takes a year, more since the few immigrant work crews have packed up and left :-(
So interesting, I think there are indeed a few islands in the Great Lakes with tiny schools. Just searched Google maps for that and now I want to go island-hopping there (admittedly, it must be hard to live there).
Someone who sits on a community NFP board with me walks around 2 miles to work every morning, including across a low-water foot bridge, unless the weather is such that she has to drive. The drive is almost 5 miles, so she tries to walk if at all possible.
Not me, but I know many people in Ottawa who skate to work along the Rideau Canal in the winter. The rink section is about 8km long , so if you live near it and work downtown, you walk + skate + walk. Sadly, the season seems to be getting shorter every year.
We had a really long skating season this year!
Omg, that’s so awesome!
Yes! DH used to skate to work when we lived it Ottawa – so fun!
I lived in Mt Washington in Pittsburgh and worked on the North Shore. When the weather was decent, I would walk to the incline, take it down the “mountain”, hop on the trolley to downtown, and then walk over the beautiful bridge to get to my office. I was young. It took an hour. It was great exercise and a wonderful way to enjoy the city.
I walk 5 minutes and I love it. But I have colleagues that skate in the winter or kayak in the summer, sometimes they just run/walk the river path.
Where do you live that freezes over enough in the winter?
Ottawa!
I used to walk across the Brooklyn bridge most days. The subway was faster but I enjoyed it.
Not a true commute but Dartmouth has a series of cabins that can be rented by students. At least one is on an island in the river next to campus, so students would sometimes book it for the first or last day of classes (or other significant days) and canoe into class that morning.
I lived about a half-mile down river from the school I taught at in Maine and would canoe to work many mornings then float and fish on the way home in the evenings.
That is so lovely! May I ask where this was?
Not sure if this counts as a commute but in elementary school I skied through the woods to get to school.
I used to bike to/from work along a waterfront trail facing a mountain range that turned pink at golden hour. I never got used to how beautiful it was.
That’s the dream to ski to school! Where did you live then?
upstate NY!
Second school skier here – was located in Scandi, with 6 months of snow, of which 4 were ski friendly.
I live in the Bay Area. The ultimate commute is the Larkspur-Sausalito-SF ferry. It’s absolutely world-class stunning. I am so jealous of people who live in Marin. It doesn’t work for me–I have a dog and the ferry ends service at 9ish at night, but…man, that’s the ultimate. Also, you can work on the ferry/easy to sit and pull up a laptop and crank. And they have booze for the Friday journey home. A dream, truly!
I used to walk from (and through) Beacon Hill, across the Boston Common, to my office downtown in Boston. I would walk past centuries-old graveyards, gorgeous mansions, a stunning park, and finally into modern downtown. It was perfect, except in the dead of summer when it was unbearable. But I would bundle even in very cold weather for it, and loved it. It was 1.2 miles, about 20 mins. I was working in biglaw at the time, and it was often the only daylight and exercise I’d get. And it was magical at Christmastime with the trees all lit up on the Common.
I biked the lakeshore path in Chicago 8 miles to work, where there was protected indoor bike parking and free showers. I loved it! Alas, I moved, and now my 10 mile ride would be through some tough neighborhoods to navigate with traffic and broken glass. I wonder if I should give a try, though, just for the fun of it! Can’t be that much worse than my stinky, sticky CTA train.
I used to run home from work on this path (took the El in). Those were the days!
I work for a global company headquartered in Basel, Switzerland. Tubing on the river is popular, and I have heard of colleagues doing it in the summer (to work if they live upstream, back home when they live downstream).
As a child I used to ski (cross country) to school during the winter months. It was a round trip of 3 miles walking, but less when we skied.
In university, which was slatop a small mountain I used to cycle up the road then mountain bike down the very gnarly single track forest trails.
Fun until you underestimate how much faster it gets dark in the woods and need to ride trails with a small handle bar light!
OP here and thank you all for these responses! This was such a fun thread to read.
Mine is hands-down taking the 110 freeway in Los Angeles. It’s the oldest freeway in the country, and it was designed for a 40 mph speed limit. Naturally everyone does 65-70. It’s SO MUCH FUN to drive!
I think my husband knows the guy who sailed from Martha’s Vineyard to Woods Hole every morning… researcher, casual office, obviously!
Where are we getting patterned silk bouses in 2026? I loathe collars (but can deal with a bit of a neck ruffle for variety). I don’t like button-ups, but some buttons or a popover style are OK. I need full sleeves or they get bunched up under a jacket / blazer / etc. I used to find them at Boden or Amour Vert, but can’t find a nicer blouse now. And wear solid bottoms and top layers (basically a casual “suit”), so I want a pattern or at least texture or pleating or some visual interest in a shirt.
That’s Elsa top from Lilly Pulitzer.
How about for something more sedate for the office?
we’re not. it’s not a current trend. maybe talbots?
What are people wearing for tops then? It’s too warm for a sweater now. Wool is scratchy. I haven’t found anything cotton that isn’t too casual or too Farm Rio (which I love, but it’s not for every situation, even in a casual office).
Boden and Brooks Brothers both have nice quality linen or cotton short sleeved thinner sweaters. I have also found them at Ann Taylor or Banana Republic in the past but I refuse to buy anything at either place now without feeling the materials in person.
since when are print blouses a trend?
Maybe they are not but guess what!? They look good and bring interest to plain outfits. I look good in them and refuse to follow the beige/greige oversized and shapeless trends of the past few seasons. There is a place for everything.
oh i’m the one at 10:49 and i just meant, print blouses are a classic. like leopard print comes and goes but “only solid colors” is definitely not a trend.
It’s the same nonsense that states that things are only current if you can find them in a shopping mall. Print blouses are a classic item that you can always wear.
I am. I order them from shirtmakers on Etsy.
oh wow – which shirtmakers have you had good xperiences with?
Alice + Olivia, Frame, L’Agence, and Paige.
Try Nic + Zoe.
Boden or Equipment. I buy a few each year.
How about petite patterned blouses??
l’agence, tucker nyc, dvf
Check out Rails. I have enjoyed everything I have bought from there.
I’ve been buying Amour Vert off poshmark.
I like patterned silk blouses, too. I shop at Nordstrom Rack online for these. Paige, Veronica Beard, and Frame usually have nice options, sometimes Theory and Alice + Olivia. Just checked and there are some good possibilities right now. PSA that some of the Frame tops have buttons but the tops are cut loose enough that you don’t ever have to unbutton them — the buttons are more ornamental.
True, I have silk shirts from quince that I like and I just take them off like a normal tee and hang them up (I wear an undershirt so don’t have to wash that frequently.)
I’m a senior paralegal in a MCOL city and have been with my company several years. Lately I’ve been considering applying for a new job, however, I am out of touch with pay in my field. All in, my current annual compensation is $180,000, and after looking at job postings I’m worried I might have to take a pay cut if I leave. For those in the legal field, is my current pay within your range for a paralegal at your firm or company? Thank you!
I would expect a pay cut if you leave. That sounds like a very high salary for a paralegal, which opinion is admittedly is based on a small sample of paralegals I know in my VHCOL (NYC).
M/HCOL (east coast metro) and in house mid-career paralegals are around $100k.
+1.
I think paralegal pay (like lawyer pay) varies greatly based on your employer – more info about your company would be helpful, as would your years of experience.
$180K for a paralegal in a MCOL city?!? That seems extraordinary. That’s more than the starting salary as a Big Law associate in VHCOL cities until quite recently.
Attorneys have a much higher ceiling though.
Of course, but the demands and training are worlds apart.
What portion of this is your actual salary? Are there any non-salary line items that you could give up without missing them? Is there something you are trying to escape, or something you are striving for?
I am a senior paralegal in a MCOL city (not at a law firm) and my total comp package is in that ballpark. I have been in my role for 7 yrs and am often contacted by recruiters looking for my skill set and industry experience. The only close offers would require me to give up non-salary comp that I value and work for a firm with billable hours requirements. They would involve less job security, little to no room for growth, and I would lose the flexibility to work remotely and adjust my hours.
Can each of you tell us more about how you got these jobs? And the hours?
I’m just familiar with V20 type jobs that grind you a lot and expect you to do a couple of years in your 20s and then go to law school.
Not OP. My role is at a private firm and was formed as our work focus has grown and matured. I did not start at this salary or in this role. I have cultivated niche industry experience and gained deep knowledge of my firm, making my role both quite valuable to my firm and very hard to hire for. My firm is aware of this. It strives to make this a place I want to stay by providing an excellent total comp package as well as less tangible culture perks. I work normal office hours, usually nothing more than a stray email response outside of that every now and again. I can flex my hours and am able to work remotely within reason.
not a commenter on this thread but good for you, this sounds like an excellent way to build a career and i’m glad it sounds like you know your own worth.
what industry are you in?
That salary seems very, very high, especially for a MCOL city. Out of curiosity, what type of company do you work at currently?!
that is high. unless you are working a million hours i don’t see you matching it.
This is very high unless:
– you’re at a firm
– you’re on a coast.
I work in SF in tech, and was a sr corp paralegal for many years (now an atty). The very best Bay Area paralegals command above 180K, but they also get overtime, so….it’s a lot when you’re compounding your hourly rate. They also get worked to the bone nonstop at that salary, as they are doing fund closings, IPOs, M+A and venture financing work that is both specialized and intensive. Can’t speak to lit.
In-house paralegal work is usually not compensated nearly as well, and often does not get overtime either.
Even at a firm, it is a lot, unless you are billing a ton of hours.
This is more than many attorneys in MCOL cities make. I’m in-house, and I think our paralegals top out around $180k if you include yearly discretionary profit sharing, retirement matching and contributions, and restricted shares.
This has got to include any variable comp you get.
….meaning this can’t just be your base salary.
I read “annual compensation” to mean the value of the total comp package, including any bonuses, insurance, parking, etc. that the employer covers. But if that is not the case and this really is their salary, then yes, OP is very unlikely to find a similar offer anywhere and if they do, it’s probable they will need to make peace with selling their soul.
It’s normal to include bonuses in total comp but I think it’s odd to include insurance and not sure how you would really value it. At least at my employer I feel like they just make up the numbers. They’re always saying things like “your benefits are worth $50k!” but I’m sure that’s not anywhere near what they pay per employee.
For every job I have ever held, total comp takes in the value of everything the employer pays specifically on your behalf, including what portion of insurance they pay for you, any FSA/HSA/retirement fund contributions they pay, things like parking or transit fees if they cover those costs, any canteen or gym memberships they provide, as well as bonuses, all of it. The numbers are not made up but accurately reflect the actual cost to the company. The year end total comp summaries align with my tax forms.
Those total comp summaries are fantastic for negotiating salary when moving jobs. My last job offered an amazing health insurance package where they covered every penny of my healthcare costs. My current employer offers a high deductible plan, and I was able to negotiate a starting salary that accommodated the difference in total value of the health plans.
In my firm in a MCOL city, we have two or three paralegals who have developed specialized skill sets (mostly in the renewable energy space, if that helps) and have become invaluable to our team. My recollection is that their compensation (base + discretionary bonus) has been around $150k for the last few years. One of them always has her finger on the pulse of what competitors are offering, so I’m fairly certain that if there were better offers on the table, we would have heard about it by now.
Good friend who is a paralegal in a MCOL. Just promoted to oversee paralegals is several offices and had pay bumped to $95k. You’re doing VERY well.
Can anyone report on their experiences with Indochino?
Hi! I got a suit there about 2 years ago. The experience was nice but Id give the results 3/5. The jackets arent really tailored in a feminine way and the suit pants are unlined. The fabric is supposedly a natural wool/silk blend but it feels about the same as an Ann Taylor type seasonless stretch polyester.
How long is reasonable to wait on a proposal from a kitchen designer? I met her last Wednesday, Friday she said she would get it to me “soon, hopefully this weekend”, still hasn’t sent anything. I liked her but also don’t want to have to chase on a project this big and expensive. But maybe I’m being unreasonable on timeline here?
I’d reach out at this point because of her stated timeline, but it depends how detailed a proposal you’re expecting. A rough ballpark should only take a day or two. A mockup that shows possible layouts, finishes, etc., will take longer. Ours took about 2-3 weeks for the latter, but she presented three possible options for layouts and that timeline including consulting with a structural engineer IIRC.
She did a poor job setting expectations. I’d expect a thoughtful proposal – assuming you went into some detail about your goals for the project, structural changes, level of anticipated $$$ on appliances & finishes – to take a week or so.
This.
Signed,
In the middle of a complete home reno
Or longer. The proposals are usually detailed and they take time to put together. Shortly in this world can mean a month.
+1
But I would do a check-in email at the end of this week, or on Mon/Tues.
Any Kyoto hotel recs? I like a nice hotel but don’t think I have a Ritz Carlton or Mitsui budget (this is for March so high season pricing). There are so many options it’s kind of overwhelming.
this is where we stayed. i was there two summers ago with my parents and my kids. i don’t remember much about it honestly so i guess nice enough.
https://www.nokuhotels.com/kyoto/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1671336415&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn_Lal7-2lAMVnEn_AR3zjCnNEAAYASAAEgJIY_D_BwE
Honestly, for Japan I’ve been happy with the run-of-the-mill business hotels like Daiwa Roynet, APA or Dormy Inn. Rooms are small, but many hotels have a spa area, some have really good breakfast, and I mostly need a comfy bed to sleep after a long day of exploring the sights.
Make sure you check the hotel’s smoking policy if you want be sure to avoid smoking rooms – I think they still exist in some hotels, but fewer than before.
I stayed at the Celestine Gion recently and really enjoyed it. Beautiful property, nicely appointed rooms, and literally across the street from a temple in a fantastic, walkable, charming area – I prefer to stay on that side of the river (especially if you’ll have just come from Tokyo) because it’s a totally different vibe than the city hustle and bustle on the other side. The staff was also really helpful and accommodating when I forgot some personal items in a nightstand drawer and they mailed them back to me in the US.
I’ve stayed at the Mitsui Garden Hotel Kyoto Station, and the Hotel Vischio Kyoto by Granvia. Both were excellent mid-range business hotels. They are on opposite sides of Kyoto Station.
The Vischio is bigger and newer, and has a “public” bath for hotel guests so you can get a little onsen experience right in the hotel.
I had a cheap room at the Mitsui Garden Hotel which faced a neighborhood so the window was frosted. It let in light and wasn’t a big deal for me, but might bother others. There were decorative shoji screens on the window so it didn’t look bad in the room.
How do fashionable, very senior women working in casual tech companies dress in the office?
Engineers or non engineers? Because engineers wear whatever the fuck they want. The rest of us wear a slightly more casual version of whatever we would’ve worn in the roles we had prior to tech.
Our CTO wears what I would describe as edgy preppy style. Like if P!nk were a finance exec.
So–there’s a variety, at least for GTM/G&A folks.
As noted, devs wear…whatever and in most cases, it’s not fashionable.
Some are quite feminine–think silk skirts with a t-shirt.
Some are power dressers–sculpted pants with a leather moto jacket (note: there is a thing with leather jackets and senior women in tech. It’s odd).
Some wear super-preppy jeans plus button downs, cashmere sweaters, etc.
Last, there’s the “professional services refugees” who wear a step below biz cas, like a fancy blouse, but with jeans, if that makes sense.
Most wear fancy sneakers, but a few folks will stay very committed to heels.
I am not sure how I’d react if I saw someone wear a leather jacket, much less a leather moto jacket, at work. It is very much “not a thing” where I work.
I feel like it’s an outdoor garment. Not part of an outfit inside like a blazer or lady jacket.
I work in finance in the midwest and leather moto jackets are incredibly common, although they seem to have peaked a year ago. Probably equal numbers of leather or suede moto jackets as there are lady jackets on any given day in my office.
Mary Barra (GM CEO) famously wears leather jackets often, though in a more feminine cut.
This is so true about Lester moto jackets!!
However they want to, I’d assume.
If you left a big city (NYC etc) for a LCOL area to raise your family, where did you go when the kids were grown and flown? If you didn’t initially move near family, how did you make your decision for where to live?
I left SF Bay Area for LCOL Midwest shortly before having a kid. We had very little say in where we went; my husband is a college professor so you go where the jobs are. But we were really hoping to move to a LCOL area where we could buy a nice house and afford the lifestyle we wanted (even with a massive pay cut – I left Big Law when we moved – we feel so much richer here). And we both grew up in Midwest college towns so liked the idea of raising our family in one. We got very lucky, ending up in one of our top five locations.
As far as empty nester life, my parents moved here to help us with childcare so we’ll probably do the same thing for our daughter if she’s interested. I also want to get a vacation home in Maine and spend summers there. And do more extended stays abroad during my husband’s sabbaticals.
Community ties are important to us – making friends is hard! So for us, it was just the one move, and we made the moving knowing there wouldn’t be a move again.
This. We had thought of moving when our kid went to college, but while she was in high school we finally began to feel like part of the community and I got established in the local scene for my hobby, and now we are reluctant to leave.
Considering quitting my first attorney role. 1 year anniversary in June. I cannot catch on; I don’t have an assigned paralegal; my 1-on-1s have been unpleasant at best and traumatic at worst (My boss told me that I am flailing and asked if I have an anxiety-disorder and/or learning disability); I wake up nervous with physical symptoms every day; and have no mentor to ask about this. It’s embarrassing to admit. It’s a small office, where everyone is very busy and most work long hours/weekends. High turnover rate. The positives are that I like the area (General Litigation), pay is comparable, and it’s a small office. The negatives are the pressure and the thought that I can’t recover from my boss’s negative perspective of me. Advice?
quitting and doing what? I think you should find another job first.
Sounds like you’re right to look for a new role. You’re going to struggle to develop into a good lawyer when you’re constantly nervous, lack support, and your boss doesn’t believe in you. Being a young attorney is hard, but it shouldn’t be traumatizing. Advice is not to quit your job until you have another lined up. General litigation jobs are not rare. I know it stinks, but stick it out.
Have you ever had an office job before or is this both your first attorney job and your first real job?
If you weren’t female I would have assumed my own junior wrote this post he’s so confused all the time and very clearly used to a school system with hand holding, it seems like he has a learning disability because doing anything independently isn’t happening.
Why do you think this is a sign of a learning disability? Certain jobs require a more self-guided learning and problem solving. Law might be a bad fit, maybe on top of covid-era college limitations, but how does that indicate they have a diagnosable problem?
Not being able to make any logical leap or problem solve is what makes me think learning disability.
One example: a client filled out a form and they didn’t include the zip code, he asked me what to do as if he couldn’t Google the clients address and figure out the zip code himself. There are hundreds of examples of this where he is unable to undertake very simple problem solving which could use publicly available data.
Perhaps it’s not a learning disability but at a certain point you get very frustrated with the helplessness over absolutely everything. Like not even being able to Google ms word settings is exhausting.
I appreciate your comment. I was a journalist before law school, so not my first job. My boss asked me if I had a learning disability point blank. That’s the root of why I want to move. This is the only role I’ve struggled with a boss/leader, and I know I do not have a learning disability.
You need a new boss, there are better ones out there.
Your boss is clueless about…a lot. People with disabilities tend to be pro-active and advocate for accommodations, or they just don’t happen. When they hit college, everything is on them, not parents, though some parents are A LOT and don’t let go easily. Most of these situations would be screened out in regular hiring, because who hires a new attorney when a parent is pulling the strings?
OP – if you can manage yourself as a journalist, think of your boss as a tough interviewee, it’s more about them than you. look up your local bar association and see what events are on offer for new attorneys and attend one or two – to pick up solidarity and not feel like you are going it alone. I know the work hours can be brutal, but it can be an oasis from all you are feeling at your current position. Don’t go looking for scuttlebutt on your firm, and keep your cards close, but pay attention to what’s going on locally and regionally. You might find that some of this is normal, like little professional development at smaller firms.
So you’re a new grad at a small firm that’s poorly-run? Hang in there while you job-hunt.
This is my advice. I feel like it takes a couple of years to really get your feet under you as a lawyer, but if your boss has pretty much given up on you, a fresh start is in order. Also maybe look into whether you should be treated for anxiety. I started a low-dose anti-anxiety drug recently (in my 60s) and it’s been a total game-changer
+1
OP, I was in what sounds like a very similar situation as a new law school grad. I worked at a small firm where new attorneys were given no support or training and were constantly being hired and fired. I was perpetually worried about disappointing the boss and making mistakes that would open the firm up to malpractice claims (which in hindsight I was totally doing). Eventually the anxiety made me physically ill too. I was “laid off” after about 9 months (they couched it as a layoff to allow me to collect unemployment insurance but it was clearly because I wasn’t doing a good job). I was unemployed for six months doing doc review and other assorted side gigs to pay the bills, which was pretty miserable, but eventually I landed in Big Law and was absolutely blown away at how much training and support I received as a junior associate. The partners started me with very small discrete tasks and actually explained what I was supposed to do. And then I did it and they were happy and then gave me a slightly more complex task and so on. It felt like a miracle after the small firm. It turns out I was perfectly capable of being a good lawyer when I had the proper training. Law school doesn’t teach you how to be a lawyer. Your firm needs to do that. In general big firms are better at it than small firms and this small firm sounds particularly terrible. I hope there’s something better on the horizon for you. Don’t blame yourself!
Look for a new job. Go ahead and draft your resume now. It’s perfectly ok to leave after a year and say that you realized it wasn’t a good cultural fit.
There are so many different kinds of firms out there. Just because one isn’t a fit doesn’t mean you’re not cut out to be a lawyer. Definitely look for a new job, call a recruiter, network, etc. If you are a very recent grad your law school career services might be able to help you or at least have a job board. Hang in there!
have you posted before about how you were an emergency hire and they’re ripping apart everything you do?
you say that it’s a pro that it’s a small office but honestly i’d want a bigger firm for my first job – the learning curve between law school and practice is very steep and bigger firms are much better at training for that curve.
agree with everyone else that you should hang in there until you find a new job or an actual exit like getting an MLS to become a legal librarian. i had one friend whose legal experience was like yours sounds — when she was around 45 she figured out she was autistic.
Please don’t perpete this stereotype. Autistic people are equally as likely to be above average intelligence as below. There’s lots of us running the world, we just don’t tell people.
? how am i perpetuating a stereotype? the friend i’m referencing was always top of her class and went to HYPS/T-14 schools. that was partly why the flailing so took her by surprise.
I’m not that poster, but I didn’t read it as saying autistic people aren’t intelligent. Lots of high IQ people struggle in certain jobs. My husband is the smartest person I know (theoretical physics PhD) but I don’t think he would be successful in a law firm because he doesn’t have the ability to read and write quickly and the attention to detail needed. Not every person can succeed in every job and it has very little to do with intelligence. (Although in this instance it sounds like OP’s firm is not giving her the support a new law grad typically needs, and I don’t think it’s really her fault.)
It’s not a stereotype that autistic people who are above average intelligence still have deficits definitional to ASD.
…but it’s very rude to call it a deficit.
I know so many attorneys who had experiences like OPs and it’s just a product of crappy small firm “throw you into the deep end” mentality, chaos, rude partners, long hours, and little to no meaningful feedback. This is so, so common, unfortunately, and has nothing to do with autism or learning disabilities or any kind of neurodivergence.
Yes. Back again!
If you dislike the pressure, you’re not cut out to be a litigator. It also sound potentially too thin-skinned for this line of work. Go in-house.
Find another job with a better training program and then quit. I dealt with for 10 years and am now on my way out. It will eat at you.
After a year, you probably have a pretty good sense of the place and this doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a great place to get the training you need. I would start looking for new jobs. I’ve seen baby litigators flail a bit when they’re not set up for success and then flourish when they find something that works better for them.
What hair growth products have oeople trued to combat thinning peri menopause hair? Nutrafol bitin ads are stalking me. Anyone have success with that? What about Rogaibe? Other recs? TIA!
Do you need something for your vision too? I would see a doctor to check for overt deficiencies before starting oral supplements, but there are definitely deficiencies that can cause hair loss and hair thinning. I would also consult a relevant dermatologist before just starting Rogaine on my own.
+1. Have your ferritin checked if you haven’t already.
Minoxidil from costco brand, available on amazon. Men’s version.
It’s not a major difference but Phyto brand Phytophanere helps for me. I tried the Phytocyane but don’t know if they work better because I could not get past the foul taste.
minoxidil. go for it. my hair looks amazing.
Minoxidil, but take the pill instead of using topical. It’s a minuscule dose and it’s actually cheaper than the topical, even from Costco. The topical made my scalp itchy and my hair look dirty.
What are your best audiobook recommendations for listening during a commute? I’m getting tired of my formulaic romance novels. I could enjoy something more literary, mystery, amusing nonfiction, biographies of famous women. I want to enjoy nonfiction, but the genres of self-help, bios of men, and analyses of wars are not my jam.
When the Dust Settles by Lucy Easthope.
It’s a work memoir – she works with major disasters, based in the UK – and it is very interesting. (Plane crashes, attacks, major train accidents etc)
I like memoirs read by the author for this. Recently did Strangers by Belle Burden and Famesick by Lena Dunham. Also Marriage at Sea was a great listen!
This is really off the wall but I am super into the audio version of the Dungeon Crawler Carl series.
it is amazing and weird and the audiobook is the best thing ever.
#8 dropped yesterday, and most books are 15-20 hrs or longer.
Turns out they have a bunch of merch on Etsy. I think I need a Princess Donut tee…
My husband is basically exclusively an audiobook “reader” and has lots of opinions about narrators and he loves the Dungeon Crawler Carl series.
I like novels – Elin Himderbrand, Rebecca Serle, Jane Greene, they make the time pass easily and aren’t hard to follow if I get distracted.
Ina Garten’s memoir was great.
Chasing the Thrill about the Forest Fenn treasure hunt would fit the bill nicely here.
Finally, a topic I can speak to!
Contemporary fiction:
Tom Lake, read by Meryl Streep
Wreck by Catherine Newman
Atmosphere – or, really, anything – by Taylor Jenkins Reed
A Gentleman in Moscow
Anything by Elinor Lipman
The Uncommon Reader
The Safekeep
Margo’s Got Money Troubles
Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow
The Great Believers
The Heaven & Earth Grocery Store
Literary thrillers/mysteries:
The Jackson Brodie series by Kate Atkinson (starting with Case Histories)
The God of the Woods
The Plot and its sequel, The Sequel
Biography/memoir:
I’m Glad my Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy
For fun:
Ladies in Waiting, short stories featuring side characters from Austen
Fever Beach, or anything else by Carl Hiaasen
Eligible (modern-day Pride & Prejudice)
A different type of romance (queer, supernatural):
Rules for Ghosting
‘How to be perfect’ was perfect.
Thursday Murder Club Series!! Delightful and engaging. I also love Louise Penny’s Three Pines series with Inspector Gamache – very cozy mystery.
I think we are similar readers! I finished all of those — are there any others that you’ve liked recently? Always looking for new recs!
Recent faves: Project Hail Mary, American Dirt, The Frozen River, Atmosphere, The Briar Club, The Lion Women of Tehran.
I would check out who some of the winners have been in recent years. While I prefer mysteries and then memoir read by the author on audiobook, there are some books where they have a great cast reading which really make the book in a way that reading it in print wouldn’t. Sometimes that’s enough for me to read a book I wouldn’t have been interested in otherwise.
I have a high school kid who is a handful at school sometimes. Kiddo should probably be in a specialized private school, but nothing like that exists in our area, so we have to send an autistic kid to the only school, a big public school already beset by youth problems like suicide, violence, teen pregnancy, and COVID learning losses. My not-thriving kid is an afterthought until the not-thriving becomes disruptive. One teacher this year has been a saint to my kid despite my kid being very rude and disruptive in her class. Would it be inappropriate to send something like a DoorDash or other gift card just because I feel awful for the drama this teacher has dealt with? Maybe with a note like “I hope you can enjoy a well-earned break this summer?” My kid will likely not have this teacher again (and it’s unlikely that I’ll ever actually meet the teacher — this has all been by e-mail).
I would say something like “I appreciate the extra care and attention you’ve shown ___ this year – it means a lot. Have a wonderful and relaxing summer.”
This would not be inappropriate but I think you have bigger problems to solve here besides how to thank a teacher…
Yes, but she’s probably seeking more specialized advice from other sources for those problems!
Agreed. Does your child have an IEP in place, is it what it should be, and is the school district actually complying with its terms? I used to work in this area – and it’s what my own kid does now, at a legal aid office – and all of this is a legally binding obligation on the district.
Agreed.
This post reads a bit odd and flippant, to be honest, not knowing the background story.
What is flippant about this? These comments are so off base sometimes.
I found it odd that all communications with teacher happened via email – if your kid is truly disruptive and there are underlying issues like IEPs, wouldn’t you have a conversation?
To me this read like „my kid was disrupting your class so here‘s a gift card as an apology“.
But hey, what we read on the internet can come off differently than intended and is lacking background, so maybe I misread.
OP here. I definitely do. This is one think I can do something about. I don’t think that schools ever really comply with their obligations of many sorts. Families that can fund social supports have that as an option because nothing else seems to ever get done.
This board skews towards “it’s in the law so it happens”. In practice… the world is different. There’s a fine line parents who can’t just pay for private school walk between advocating for their kid and burning bridges. You want teachers to want to work with you; not feel like they need the union rep and a lawyer in every conversation. OP, you sound like you’re doing fine.
Obviously not everyhing works just because it’s legally required. But the IEP process is intended to be a collaboration between teachers and other providers, administrators and parents (with legal assistance when needed). IME, teachers and therapists (OT, PT, speech) are overwhelmingly supportive of what the child needs and what the parents want (unless it’s truly out in left field), and it’s usually administrators who fight it.
That has not been my experience nor the experience of many people I know. My experience is that admin is supportive but distant; teachers are very hit-or-miss. Some are very, very resentful of the IEP and don’t follow it, and we’ve had to send several emails that explicitly say “this is legally required” to make sure even basic things happen.
This is in a very wealthy school district.
I’d suggest emailing the admin to note how outstanding this teacher was and her effects on your kid, in addition to a gift.
Write a note.
I know theyre $ and it’d be hard to be away from a kid for so long, but since the local options aren’t acceptable, could you look into a boarding school equipped to handle his needs?
Boarding schools for special needs students is the kind of thing that goes wrong a lot.
For behavioral yes, but there are great ones for academic needs
but there’s no suggestion in OP’s post that her kiddo has that sort of spiky academic profile that those schools are best for. there really is no place for level 2 autistics because they’re not little professors but they also don’t need to be institutionalized (the modern version of institutionalization is the $60,000 “school” that focuses on behaviors)
I’m glad to hear it! I did online for academic needs way back when. I really hope there is some better alternative to the school OP described.
Top tier academic boarding schools do not take students with behavioral challenges.
If she’s been a saint to your kid, say that. “I appreciate how much you’ve done for [child] – I know it hasn’t always been easy, but you’ve made a difference in his education.”
Also – why can’t you meet with her in-person?
I have a similar autistic child with behavior issues… I feel your frustration and your relief that finally one teacher kind of got it. Big hugs to you. I think Doordash would be great.
Forgive me if this sounds flippant or simplistic — does he have midday meds the school administers? One of the best things I did was put in the medicine instructions/permission that they had to give them with food, and then I sent in Triscuits. Just 2 triscuits with his meds has made him so much calmer. Not sure if it’s a blood sugar thing or a “the meds are better with food” thing, but if you haven’t already, give it a try.
We’re dreading high school – he’s been in a specialized school but they only go to 8. (He’s in 6th now.) Not having a single point person is going to be a nightmare for parent-teacher communication.
Better yet, have your child write the Thank You note. I have a 10 year old that had a rough year and it seemed to give him more ownership over his actions when he wrote an apology note to a teacher or friend.
Obviously not everything works just because it’s legally required. But the IEP process is intended to be a collaboration between teachers and other providers, administrators and parents (with legal assistance when needed). IME, teachers and therapists (OT, PT, speech) are overwhelmingly supportive of what the child needs and what the parents want (unless it’s truly out in left field), and it’s usually administrators who fight it.
There’s never enough support when what the child needs is not to be in the classroom or school setting at all.